Romney: Obama Will “Say Things That Aren’t True”

DARVO
Politics • Views: 39,640

Psychologists have an acronym for what Mitt Romney is doing here: DARVO. It stands for Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender: Romney on Debates: Obama Will ‘Say Things That Aren’t True’.

With the first presidential debate less than three weeks away, Mitt Romney is spending lots of time getting ready behind closed doors.  In his first comments on that debate prep, he told me that Sen. Rob Portman is a tough stand-in for a president who basically lies in debates.

“I think the challenge that I’ll have in the debate is that the president tends to, how shall I say it, to say things that aren’t true,” Romney said. “I’ve looked at prior debates.  And in that kind of case, it’s difficult to say, ‘Well, am I going to spend my time correcting things that aren’t quite accurate? Or am I going to spend my time talking about the things I want to talk about?”

In fact, DARVO has become the default operating mode for the entire right wing.

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441 comments
1 dragonfire1981  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:49:24pm

But you'll just be PERFECTLY honest right Mitt?

2 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:49:37pm

Obama better be ready for this come debate time. I'm pretty confident he will be.

3 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:49:45pm

Ok so you made me look up DARVO, and it applies in this case.

4 jaunte  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:50:07pm
‘Well, am I going to spend my time correcting things that aren’t quite accurate? Or am I going to spend my time talking about the things I want to talk about?”

That's a pretty clear indication that he'll be unresponsive to anything that's not in his script.

5 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:51:00pm

re: #4 jaunte

in other words he is taking debate cues from Sarah Palin.

6 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:51:01pm

re: #4 jaunte

That's a pretty clear indication that he'll be unresponsive to anything that's not in his script.

Or as we call it now in the 21st century, "debate."

7 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:51:05pm

I guess Romney is already prepping his supporters for when Obama is going to whoop his behind in the debates.

Good try, Romney. No one lies like you. No one.

8 Tigger2  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:51:17pm

What an hypocrite.
Here's an interesting article about Romney and the GOP in the Sun Sentinel.


Republicans are finished
[Link: www.sun-sentinel.com...]

9 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:51:36pm

Blacks are the real racists!

Why are you laughing?

10 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:51:50pm
11 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:51:57pm

"If you want to learn the Republican playbook, just look at what they're accusing the Democrats of doing. "

12 jaunte  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:52:37pm
13 Randall Gross  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:53:13pm

The saddest thing? That many in the GOP's alt.reality thread think that Mitt's right... they actually have repeated their bumper sticker mantras enough that they think they are truths.

14 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:54:33pm

I think Romney is showing signs of... well... going bonkers.

15 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:55:52pm

re: #14 Gus

I think Romney is showing signs of... well... going bonkers.

Nah. He's just showing signs of being a Republican candidate. They have to pander to people who live in their own reality and their own version of America, complete with an invisible version of the POTUS that has never existed in the real world.

16 celticdragon  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 2:58:48pm

When I was in the army, our saying for this sort of thing was:

Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter-accusations!

17 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:00:12pm

I think Obama should open with a long recitation of things that Romney has said that aren't true.

18 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:01:28pm

DARVO, excellent. Rhymes with mind numbingly stupid ignorant lying jackwad.

19 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:02:37pm

So if Obama said "My opponent is an honorable man"...

20 Tigger2  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:03:34pm

re: #19 BongCrodny

So if Obama said "My opponent is an honorable man"...

I don't think I could say that it would be a lie.

21 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:03:52pm
22 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:04:34pm

re: #17 Obdicut

I think Obama should open with a long recitation of things that Romney has said that aren't true.

No matter what answer Romney gives to any question he's asked, no matter how good an answer it may be, Obama can always say "So why did you say X when you were governor," or "Why did you support Z when you ran four years ago?"

23 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:04:36pm

re: #21 Gus

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12 points! That's huge.

24 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:05:29pm
25 Mattand  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:05:39pm

re: #16 celticdragon

When I was in the army, our saying for this sort of thing was:

Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter-accusations!

A guy I knew from art school, who was constantly in trouble in high school, cited the first two as the first actions he would take when he got busted on something.

That the GOP candidate for President is using this as a campaign strategy is beyond pathetic. Particularly since his campaign has essentially admitted that lying is a major part of their campaign strategy.

26 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:05:45pm
27 euphgeek  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:05:55pm

re: #7 Patricia Kayden

Good try, Romney. No one lies like you. No one.

I read that as "No one likes you." Which is also true.

28 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:06:28pm

re: #24 Gus

[Embedded content]

I bet that'd trigger recession in more than one red state.

29 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:07:35pm

re: #16 celticdragon

I think it was Lyndon Johnson who said
"call them pig f'ers and make them deny it".

30 euphgeek  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:07:45pm

re: #11 Coracle

"If you want to learn the Republican playbook, just look at what they're accusing the Democrats of doing. "

Bingo.

31 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:07:56pm

re: #28 Coracle

I bet that'd trigger recession in more than one red state.

Utah consumes the highest amount of porn per-capita.

32 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:08:01pm

re: #21 Gus

[Embedded content]

Huh. I thought the Tampa area was rather conservative. I know that Clearwater is supposed to be one of the most conservative cities in the country.

33 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:08:39pm

re: #32 BongCrodny

Huh. I thought the Tampa area was rather conservative. I know that Clearwater is supposed to be one of the most conservative cities in the country.

I think seniors aren't too happy with the Romney/Ryan ticket.

34 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:08:40pm

re: #31 Obdicut

Utah consumes the highest amount of porn per-capita.

I thought that was specifically online porn.

35 Tigger2  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:09:22pm

re: #24 Gus

[Embedded content]

If that gets out Romney's support will drop to 11%.

36 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:09:23pm

Romney has proven to be an exceptional artisan in the "saying things that aren't true" craft, so he should be able to recognize similar work from others.

37 Ming  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:09:38pm

I expect that in the debates, Romney will bring up a barrage of every single "evolution" ever recorded in Obama's positions. When Obama ran in 2008, he was against the individual mandate (and Hillary Clinton was for it). Obviously that's one position that Obama has changed. Of course, Obama simply accepted the mandate as part of what he got from Congress, but an unscrupulous person like Romney can blow this up into a major alleged lie.

38 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:11:00pm

re: #32 BongCrodny

Huh. I thought the Tampa area was rather conservative. I know that Clearwater is supposed to be one of the most conservative cities in the country.

Maybe, but they've elected Democratic mayors for a long time. Most urban areas tend to be Democratic rather than Republican.

39 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:11:35pm

re: #34 Mocking Jay

I thought that was specifically online porn.

Look around, most adult theaters and bookstores have disappeared. It's all online now.

40 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:12:08pm

re: #38 Obdicut

Maybe, but they've elected Democratic mayors for a long time. Most urban areas tend to be Democratic rather than Republican.

A better test would be Sarasota County.

41 Mattand  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:12:16pm

re: #37 Ming

I expect that in the debates, Romney will bring up a barrage of every single "evolution" ever recorded in Obama's positions. When Obama ran in 2008, he was against the individual mandate (and Hillary Clinton was for it). Obviously that's one position that Obama has changed. Of course, Obama simply accepted the mandate as part of what he got from Congress, but an unscrupulous person like Romney can blow this up into a major alleged lie.

That one is easy to rebut: "In the spirit of bipartisanship, I opted for a plan that conservatives had been pushing for 20 years and that you adopted in MA."

42 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:12:26pm

re: #32 BongCrodny

Huh. I thought the Tampa area was rather conservative. I know that Clearwater is supposed to be one of the most conservative cities in the country.

Heh. The Scientology capital.

43 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:12:53pm

The current Democratic mayor of Tampa won election over his Republican opponent by 26 points. It's not a very conservative place. I wouldn't make too much of a poll showing Obama ahead there.

44 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:13:13pm

re: #35 Tigger2

If that gets out Romney's support will drop to 11%.

No it won't. There is a huge disconnect between people who want to make porn illegal and people who consume porn. It's a disconnect in their own minds because the former group contains a significant number of the latter group. They just don't believe the rules they want enacted will apply to them.

45 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:13:35pm

re: #39 goddamnedfrank

Look around, most adult theaters and bookstores have disappeared. It's all online now.

Well okay, you have a bit of point.

46 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:14:54pm

Netanyahu's going on MTP.

47 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:15:14pm
48 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:16:41pm

re: #26 Mocking Jay

Oh snap!

Mofaz: Is PM trying to oust Obama or Ahmadinejad?

Bibi is also apparently doing Meet The Press on Sunday. I certainly hope the angle TPM is taking on this is wrong. I hate to imagine the response in either country if Obama went on Israeli television to campaign for the opposition there.

49 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:16:57pm
Frank says:

Number one ain't you... You ain't even number two.

50 CarleeCork  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:17:06pm

re: #5 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

in other words he is taking debate cues from Sarah Palin.

Her side lost, just in case anyone forgot.

51 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:19:16pm

re: #48 bratwurst

Bibi is also apparently doing Meet The Press on Sunday. I certainly hope the angle TPM is taking on this is wrong. I hate to imagine the response in either country if Obama went on Israeli television to campaign for the opposition there.

As a supporter of Israel, I hope it's not true, because it's increasingly unlikely that Romney will win. I think Obama will be gracious, but there's no way to really completely smooth over meddling in another country's politics the way that the conservatives in Israel have been doing.

52 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:20:16pm

And another one...

53 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:21:15pm

re: #23 Charles Johnson

12 points! That's huge.

I posted those polls last night. Obama is up 7 in Ohio, and 5 in both Florida and Virginia.

By most electoral projections, if Obama wins Florida, he'd only need one other "toss-up" state to win the election. And those "toss-ups" include states like Nevada and New Hampshire that are leaning even more heavily for Obama.

Unless Obama comes out in the debates and says "I hate America, I've been secretly working with Al Qaeda this whole time," this has all the makings of a landslide.

54 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:22:23pm

re: #51 Obdicut

I think the US press may not realize that American Jews, even if they support Israel, do not necessarily support Netanyahu, or like or trust his opinions.

55 Tigger2  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:22:29pm

I like Israel and support them but Bibi needs to keep his ass home and stay out of our politics.

56 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:23:49pm

re: #14 Gus

I think Romney is showing signs of... well... going bonkers.

Nah, it's a common glitch in the Nexus-7 series.

I don't know if the engineers at Tyrell will be able to correct this unit's glitch in time for the debates, though. Could be a problem.

57 blueraven  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:24:30pm

Breaking: Judge declares key parts of WI anti-union law unconstitutional

58 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:24:51pm

re: #54 Coracle

I think the US press may not realize that American Jews, even if they support Israel, do not necessarily support Netanyahu, or like or trust his opinions.

The right wing media has done such a good job on conflating Israel with Jews and the GOP with Israel that people are often surprised to learn that American Jews vote far more for liberals than they do for conservatives, far more for Democrats than they do for Republicans, and that there are many, many, many more Democratic Jewish elected officials than there are Republican. I remember when I used to get downdinged here just for asserting that truth.

The whole "Judeo-Christian" thing is a mask, but it works a lot of the time, depressingly.

59 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:25:10pm

Holy hell. I'm being phone-polled by Rassmussen RIGHT NOW.

60 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:25:32pm

re: #59 Coracle

Holy hell. I'm being phone-polled by Rassmussen RIGHT NOW.

Beatbox your answers.

61 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:25:59pm

re: #43 Obdicut

The current Democratic mayor of Tampa won election over his Republican opponent by 26 points. It's not a very conservative place. I wouldn't make too much of a poll showing Obama ahead there.

True, though if we're talking about the "Tampa area" rather than just Tampa, there's probably a pretty big difference.

For example, in my state, Milwaukee is obviously DARK blue. But the "Milwaukee area" is probably half and half, if not leaning red. I live about 5 minutes from the Milwaukee city border, and my congressional district has sent Jim Sensenbrenner to the House for 30+ odd years now.

62 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:27:17pm

re: #61 JamesWI

Still. It just doesn't seem like something to hang a hat on. I'm glad he's ahead there. But city+suburbs, him being ahead by 12, the Democratic mayor winning by 26-- just doesn't seem like a big deal.

63 John Q  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:28:40pm

Sounds as though Romney is confusing his practice opponent, Portman, with Obama - Portman lies readily enough.

e.g. what Portman said about Cairo embassy press release:
"The first statement that came out, and it said, at its start, ‘we apologize.’"

64 dragonath  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:29:09pm

Just FYI, in the last election Obama carried Tampa County by 53% to 46%. The suburban counties (Pasco, Polk, Hardee, and Manatee) voted for McCain 51/48, 53/47, 64/35, 53/46 respectively.

65 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:29:16pm

re: #51 Obdicut

As a supporter of Israel, I hope it's not true, because it's increasingly unlikely that Romney will win. I think Obama will be gracious, but there's no way to really completely smooth over meddling in another country's politics the way that the conservatives in Israel have been doing.

I hope Gregory asks Bibi how he feels about US based Coptic Christians trying to deflect blowback from their little stunt on to Israel and Jews by constructing a fictional Israeli Jewish scapegoat.

66 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:31:14pm

re: #63 John Q

Sounds as though Romney is confusing his practice opponent, Portman, with Obama - Portman lies readily enough.

e.g. what Portman said about Cairo embassy press release:
"The first statement that came out, and it said, at its start, ‘we apologize.’"

The Willard Mechanism is going to have a segmentation fault in the first debate when Obama behaves nothing like his 'practice' opponent.

67 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:31:55pm

Well there should be little disagreement with the fact checkers the day after the debate as they take apart Mitt.

Right?

68 Tigger2  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:32:09pm

re: #66 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The Willard Mechanism is going to have a segmentation fault in the first debate when Obama behaves nothing like his 'practice' opponent.

I agree Obama is smarter then all of them.

69 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:32:45pm

In more important news, I no longer have love-handles. Dropped twenty pounds in the last six months, and gotten hella strong at the same time. The 92nd street Y rocks. It's my favorite thing about NYC. Great cultural programming, a fun, active, inclusive yet still definitely Jewish place, and an amazing, low-pressure gym with great trainers. I advise everyone to move to the Upper East Side of Manhattan and take advantage of it. I'm in the best shape I've been since I got sidelined by a hernia fourteen years ago. They're a non-profit, too.

Awesome things can be achieved by like-minded people working together to help their community. I'm very grateful to all the people there who put in the work to keep it going. I think it's time for a donation.

70 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:32:56pm

re: #21 Gus

How much did the GOP blow on the RNC again?

71 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:33:10pm

re: #67 Daniel Ballard

Well there should be little disagreement with the fact checkers the day after the debate as they take apart Mitt.

Right?

If they do their job well, then yeah. If they fuck up, then I'll be calling them on it.

Sound okay?

72 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:34:17pm

re: #24 Gus

[Embedded content]

Let's hope he wears a condom.

73 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:34:17pm

re: #62 Obdicut

Still. It just doesn't seem like something to hang a hat on. I'm glad he's ahead there. But city+suburbs, him being ahead by 12, the Democratic mayor winning by 26-- just doesn't seem like a big deal.

True, but the Marist poll has a lot better news for Obama than that. Like I said, he's up 5 points in the state as a whole, Obama has a 51-47 favorable/unfavorable rating (compared to 47-45 for Romney), and the likely Obama voters who say they will not change their mind between now and November outnumber their counterparts for Romney by a slim margin (86% of Obama voters say they won't change their minds, compared to 83% for Romney).

Really, looking through the stats on that poll, there isn't really any good news for Romney in there. In terms of the economy, 47% think Romney will be better, while 46% favor Obama on the economy. On foreign policy, 53% favor Obama, while only 38% favor Romney. And Obama's overall Approval Rating is 50%.

74 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:36:13pm

re: #73 JamesWI

Yeah, the whole poll looks good. No reason to pick into the township stuff.

I don't see any path for Romney to increase his favorability, at this point. He'd basically have to become someone other than Romney.

75 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:37:19pm

Well. That was interesting. I had to handle a visiting neighbor at the same time as the poll call, so I couldn't write down all the questions I was asked. In general there were a handful of potentially leading questions, but no heavy political slant.

'Has the government become a special interest group?'
'Who do you trust more on (x) issue, the people or the government'?

Next Rass poll you see will be more accurate than usual.

76 garhighway  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:40:13pm

re: #51 Obdicut

As a supporter of Israel, I hope it's not true, because it's increasingly unlikely that Romney will win. I think Obama will be gracious, but there's no way to really completely smooth over meddling in another country's politics the way that the conservatives in Israel have been doing.

What?! Israel meddle in our politics? Shocking.

77 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:41:23pm
78 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:41:23pm
79 garhighway  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:42:43pm

re: #73 JamesWI

True, but the Marist poll has a lot better news for Obama than that. Like I said, he's up 5 points in the state as a whole, Obama has a 51-47 favorable/unfavorable rating (compared to 47-45 for Romney), and the likely Obama voters who say they will not change their mind between now and November outnumber their counterparts for Romney by a slim margin (86% of Obama voters say they won't change their minds, compared to 83% for Romney).

Really, looking through the stats on that poll, there isn't really any good news for Romney in there. In terms of the economy, 47% think Romney will be better, while 46% favor Obama on the economy. On foreign policy, 53% favor Obama, while only 38% favor Romney. And Obama's overall Approval Rating is 50%.

There's a long way to go. But if these numbers hold up for a while, Mitt's going to start to feel desperate and decide he needs to get more aggressive. That will be interesting. He's not built for offense. This isn't the race he planned for, and it shows.

80 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:42:48pm

Also, good Senate news from the WSJ/Marist polls - In Florida, Bill Nelson absolutely destroying his Republican challenger.

In Ohio, Sherrod Brown has opened up a big lead. In Virginia, Tim Kaine has pulled even with George Nelson.

Looks like having Romney on the ticket might wind up costing the Repubs the Senate.

81 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:43:23pm
82 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:43:49pm

re: #71 Obdicut

If they do their job well, then yeah. If they fuck up, then I'll be calling them on it.

Sound okay?

Perfect. Given the relative records of the two men at all the fact checkers already, I'm confident Obama will take a quibbling nick or two, Mitt will be Pants on fire (or the equiv) at least twice.

85 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:47:14pm
86 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:47:19pm

re: #83 Gus

Confirmed: The Director of Innocence of Muslims Is a Schlocky Softcore Porn Director Named Alan Roberts

87 dragonath  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:47:20pm

I wanna see Karate Cop

John Travis is the last honest cop in a future dominated by terroristic martial-arts gangs who fight gladiator-style in arenas.

88 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:47:35pm
89 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:47:53pm

re: #78 Lidane

[Embedded content]

I see the Romneybot got a pop culture software download. Seriously, I mentioned yesterday after watching the trailer for Lincoln how far the GOP has fallen. The more I've thought about it, the more it seems as if Romney is designed to be the anti-Lincoln. Superficially handsome but soulless, whereas Lincoln was ugly as sin but may have had the most beautiful soul of any American President.

90 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:49:54pm
91 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:51:05pm

re: #90 Lidane

[Embedded content]

After all is said and done I'm sure Kevin Bacon is tied in to all of this.

//

92 nines09  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:51:07pm

I have a great plan for Romney. When he's debating Obama he can fart real loud and jump back and accuse Obama of farting.

93 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:51:11pm

re: #83 Gus

Confirmed: The Director of Innocence of Muslims Is a Schlocky Softcore Porn Director Named Alan Roberts

Interesting, and according to the article, Mr. Roberts may have been duped as to the true purpose of the film as well as the actors.

Any potential for a civil lawsuit on the part of the actors/director? I mean, false pretenses or something?

94 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:51:14pm

Oh, this is fun:

95 jaunte  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:51:16pm

re: #86 Lidane

Media for Christ, a Duarte, Calif.-based Christian nonprofit group, applied for the film permit, the San Gabriel Valley Tribune reported. The charity's misson statement is to "glow Jesus' light" to the world.

Ur doin' it rong

96 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:52:10pm

You know, it would be hilarious if after Mittens first lie at the first debate, Obama looked at him and said "there you go again" like ol' Ronnie...

97 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:53:18pm
98 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:53:27pm

re: #69 Obdicut

CONGRATULATIONS!

99 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:53:27pm

re: #93 Dr Lizardo

Interesting, and according to the article, Mr. Roberts may have been duped as to the true purpose of the film as well as the actors.

Any potential for a civil lawsuit on the part of the actors/director? I mean, false pretenses or something?

Don't know. Probably libel, defamation of character.

100 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:53:31pm

re: #96 William Barnett-Lewis

You know, it would be hilarious if after Mittens first lie at the first debate, Obama looked at him and said "there you go again" like ol' Ronnie...

That would be awesome, not in the least because wingnut heads from coast to coast would explode simultaneously.

101 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:53:51pm

re: #94 Lidane

Heh:

102 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:54:13pm

re: #87 dragonath

I wanna see Karate Cop

You would think that structured arena combat would be a major impediment to terrorist stye tactics, but what do I know? I'm not a karate cop.

103 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:54:18pm

re: #86 Lidane

Annoyingly that Nassrala douche lives in Cerritos, not far from where I am.

104 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:55:51pm

re: #96 William Barnett-Lewis

I'd actually like to see Obama confront Mitt directly with three or four outright lies his campaign has been pushing. Just name them, one, two, three and watch Mitt sputter and stall.

105 dragonath  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:56:13pm

re: #89 aagcobb

It's funny, I always thought Lincoln looked kind of cool because his face was so distinctive. Romney looks like a refugee from an 80s movie set.

106 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:57:01pm

re: #104 Daniel Ballard

I'd actually like to see Obama confront Mitt directly with three or four outright lies his campaign has been pushing. Just name them, one, two, three and watch Mitt sputter and stall.

That stuff never works. No pol these days can get far without learning how to non-answer a direct question.

107 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:57:39pm
108 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:57:59pm

Scott Walker's Gestapo at work

Sorry but it seems pretty fitting at this point.

109 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 3:59:29pm

re: #105 dragonath

It's funny, I always thought Lincoln looked kind of cool because his face was so distinctive. Romney looks like a refugee from an 80s movie set.

Apparently, contemporaries of Lincoln say no photograph or drawing of him could capture the ineffable something about his face. He was ugly, and yet somehow incredibly physically charismatic. I think of it like Christopher Walken or Tom Waits.

110 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:01:08pm

re: #105 dragonath

It's funny, I always thought Lincoln looked kind of cool because his face was so distinctive. Romney looks like a refugee from an 80s movie set.

Ugly can be cool.

111 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:01:12pm
112 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:01:39pm

re: #109 Obdicut

Intensity & desire & drive can do that.

113 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:01:52pm

Two Marines killed in attack on Afghanistan military base.....

How long before Romney tries to use those dead bodies for his political gain?

(Wish I needed a "/" here)

114 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:02:43pm

re: #86 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Wait, what?

The charity's misson statement is to "glow Jesus' light" to the world.

This is why I tend to hate mission statements, they're usually just an excuse for morons to get fucky with the English language.

115 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:04:06pm

What a weird day.

116 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:05:13pm

re: #115 Mocking Jay

What a weird day.

[Embedded content]

Grenades on a Plane
/

117 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:05:13pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

Wait, what?

This is why I tend to hate mission statements, they're usually just an excuse for morons to get fucky with the English language.

I founded my own corporation for my consulting business. The corporate motto is "Get diggity or get out".

118 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:06:19pm

re: #117 Obdicut

I founded my own corporation for my consulting business. The corporate motto is "Get diggity or get out".

Mine is "Do not disappoint me".

119 andres  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:08:04pm

re: #79 garhighway

There's a long way to go. But if these numbers hold up for a while, Mitt's going to start to feel desperate and decide he needs to get more aggressive. That will be interesting. He's not built for offense. This isn't the race he planned for, and it shows.

Worst, Romney isn't built for defense either. He cried uncle not long ago, before making Ryan his VP Candidate. All he has is his Etch-A-Sketch, and that hasn't worked well so far.

120 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:08:26pm

Or should I go with, "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"?
Decisions, decisions.

121 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:08:51pm

re: #120 Varek Raith

How about just "Fools!" or "Seize him!" ?

122 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:08:56pm

but why do you say the thing that is not so, mr romney?

we houynyms do not understand this

123 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:09:19pm

re: #120 Varek Raith

Or should I go with, "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"?
Decisions, decisions.

If I ever have an office with employees, there will be a curious banner that few will get saying "Apology accepted, Captain Needa."

124 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:09:54pm

re: #120 Varek Raith

Or should I go with, "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"?
Decisions, decisions.

I think that one has been taken by the Bain Capital boys.

125 andres  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:10:19pm

re: #106 Coracle

That stuff never works. No pol these days can get far without learning how to non-answer a direct question.

This is Romney we are talking about. He might as well blow it too.

126 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:10:38pm

Psychopathic traits can make a good president, study finds

yes this was an actual headline in a reputable news source

127 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:10:38pm

re: #120 Varek Raith

My motto to my English students is, "I find your lack of homework....disturbing."

128 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:13:10pm

Romney: Obama Will “Say

the outcome of the conventions should have clued you in to the fact this shit is not working d00d

129 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:13:40pm

re: #69 Obdicut

Awesome things can be achieved by like-minded people working together to help their community.

I knew it all along. You're another community-organizing socialist, bent on bringing America to her knees.
//

130 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:13:59pm

The diabetic woman in Maricopa County Jail who died because the stupid fucking Sheriff Joe yokel guards wouldn't give her medical attention or even her insulin, had a negative tox screen. She'd been picked up on a drug bust and wasn't even high and she died for no damn reason, here in the United States. This is wrong and this kind of shit should stop. Sheriff Joe isn't funny, he's a fucking penny-ante dictator-wanna be and he's getting people killed.

The former director of medical services testified against the jail and Sheriff and said that they've been destroying and falsifying evidence, too.

[Link: www.abc15.com...]

131 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:14:12pm

re: #129 Changing Colors, Spinning Yarns

I knew it all along. You're another community-organizing socialist, bent on bringing America to her knees.
//

Er, no.
See, he's a bee. A drone to be precise.
Or an ant.
Hm..

132 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:16:15pm
133 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:20:44pm

re: #16 celticdragon

When I was in the army, our saying for this sort of thing was:

Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter-accusations!

i think the political technique is called 'fuzzing the message', where you echo your opponent's charges but use the words to mean different things, like where limbaugh is now talking a lot about 'voter suppression' but using the phrase to mean "democratic" polls discouraging wingnut voters, and also "crony capitalism" being used to mean obama giving money to solindra

so when talking heads innocently use the phrase the wingnuts have been conditioned to hear the right wing meaning

and now romney wants undecideds to hear magical balance fairy when he's called out on his lying lying liarness

134 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:23:00pm

Sigh. So I just looked at my niece's (BIL's kid,she's 19)Facebook page and lord help me. There's about 5 entries mourning 9/11(starting on 9/8) and one of them says she's sorry for "the millions of people who died that day". OK,so she was little when this happened,but so was my kid and even he knows that it wasn't millions. She's not the sharpest crayon in the box,neither are her parents,but yipes.

135 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:23:46pm

re: #15 Lidane

Nah. He's just showing signs of being a Republican candidate. They have to pander to people who live in their own reality and their own version of America, complete with an invisible version of the POTUS that has never existed in the real world.

My father is one of them. He has a high IQ and built a successful business, but he's completely lost his mind the last couple of years and gone full "tea party patriot." It's really sad.

136 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:24:10pm

re: #132 Lidane

[Embedded content]

This could be very bad. Especially if there are even rumors that the Obama administration or DOJ requested the review. Already the White house requested the movie be taken down by Youtube and some official from DoJ called Terry Jones to complain. I'm not happy about this and it could backfire.

137 allegro  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:25:04pm

Something I have noticed about Obama both in his appearances and pictures I've seen is an increased strength that shows. He just looks more... powerful, different from the skinny guy with big ears who first campaigned for president 4 years ago. His confidence has grown and his gravitas deepened considerably.

This is the guy Mitt will be meeting in the debates. What a great show it's going to be.

138 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:25:45pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

Except that YouTube has already said that the video is within their guidelines and haven't pulled it. They've blocked it where it's illegal, but that's it.

139 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:26:03pm

re: #132 Lidane

good

140 blueraven  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:26:43pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

This could be very bad. Especially if there are even rumors that the Obama administration or DOJ requested the review. Already the White house requested the movie be taken down by Youtube and some official from DoJ called Terry Jones to complain. I'm not happy about this and it could backfire.

No, they asked YouTube to review, not to take down the video.

141 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:27:14pm

re: #140 blueraven

No, they asked YouTube to review, not to take down the video.

Pfft. Facts.

142 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:27:30pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

This could be very bad. Especially if there are even rumors that the Obama administration or DOJ requested the review. Already the White house requested the movie be taken down by Youtube and some official from DoJ called Terry Jones to complain. I'm not happy about this and it could backfire.

The White House did not ask YouTube to take down the video.

143 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:28:04pm

At least he's smart enough to lawyer up
Filmmaker behind anti-Muslim movie gets attorney

144 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:29:15pm

re: #140 blueraven

No, they asked YouTube to review, not to take down the video.

I don't want the white house asking companies to reconsider what videos are posted on the internet.

145 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:29:43pm

re: #142 Charles Johnson

The White House did not ask YouTube to take down the video.

See #107. Tapper says that Youtube said it meets their guidelines...

146 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:29:54pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I don't want the white house asking companies to reconsider what videos are posted on the internet.

Good to know.

147 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:29:59pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

This could be very bad. Especially if there are even rumors that the Obama administration or DOJ requested the review. Already the White house requested the movie be taken down by Youtube and some official from DoJ called Terry Jones to complain. I'm not happy about this and it could backfire.

He's a convict, not allowed access to computers or the internet who uploaded a video to Youtube. That's probable cause motherfucker.

148 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:30:06pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I don't want the white house asking companies to reconsider what videos are posted on the internet.

Anyone can ask YouTube to review a video posted on their site. Whether or not YouTube does anything about it is another matter.

149 allegro  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:30:24pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I don't want the white house asking companies to reconsider what videos are posted on the internet.

You have the oddest priorities.

150 blueraven  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:31:35pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I don't want the white house asking companies to reconsider what videos are posted on the internet.

Presidents are people too!

151 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:32:13pm

Free speech is not unlimited.

152 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:32:45pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

At least he's smart enough to lawyer up
Filmmaker behind anti-Muslim movie gets attorney

Considering the guy has a criminal history, I'm pretty sure he already had a lawyer.

153 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:33:08pm

re: #145 Gus

See #107. Tapper says that Youtube said it meets their guidelines...

They also used the language "Clearly" meets their guidlines. I'm glad Youtube is standing firm on this. I'm not really happy about youtube and google cooperating with censorship in foreign countries either but I guess that's the price to pay for doing business in some places.

154 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:33:12pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I don't want the white house asking companies to reconsider what videos are posted on the internet.

Although. I'm sure there are exceptions. Flagrant violation that would outright affect national security. If you post a classified or top secret video for instance.

155 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:33:31pm

re: #152 Lidane

Considering the guy has a criminal history, I'm pretty sure he already had a lawyer.

100 Jewish lawyers.

156 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:33:47pm

re: #151 Varek Raith

Free speech is not unlimited.

I'm sure if this film went to the SCOTUS it would pass muster.

157 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:33:52pm

And I fail to see anything wrong with the White House asking YouTube to review the video to see if it violates their terms of service. Their priority is trying to prevent more violence directed against American embassies and personnel.

Fake outrage.

158 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:33:55pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I don't want the white house asking companies to reconsider what videos are posted on the internet.

Also, poor form for you to misrepresent what the WH did.

159 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:33:56pm

re: #143 Killgore Trout

No one made YouTube remove the film. The man is also a criminal, apparently at the federal level,and part of his probation prohibits the use of computers and the internet. It's not the White House's fault if he fucked up and gets his probation rescinded if he violated a court order. He's had his free speech,he's even clever enough to know that political speech is the most protected kind, so he labeled his delightful film as that instead of religious. Free speech doesn't mean you can do or say what you want with no consequences or protest.

160 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:34:19pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

This could be very bad. Especially if there are even rumors that the Obama administration or DOJ requested the review. Already the White house requested the movie be taken down by Youtube and some official from DoJ called Terry Jones to complain. I'm not happy about this and it could backfire.

Yeah. I mean, the guy used to make PCP, obviously a review of his parole is some sort of massive problem. Never mind that the production of this movie has marks of fraud all over it, that the actors were duped. Reviewing this guys parole is an affront to the constitution, man.

161 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:34:36pm

re: #151 Varek Raith

Free speech is not unlimited.

Yes, I know the progressive concept of free speech. I can't say I'm a big fan of it.

162 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:34:45pm

re: #155 Decatur Deb

100 Jewish lawyers.

That were rich enough to finance his crazy anti-Muslim film.

163 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:35:02pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

I don't want the white house asking companies to reconsider what videos are posted on the internet.

I don't want you misrepresenting facts.

164 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:35:15pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Yes, I know the progressive concept of free speech. I can't say I'm a big fan of it.

Hah!
Nice try.

165 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:35:54pm

Hey, who cares if some convicted con man banned from computers and the internet tries to use Jews a scapegoats for a bullshit online stunt that's cost at least six people their lives so far. The important thing is that the government lets him get away with it and shouldn't review the conditions of his probation.

166 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:36:00pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Hey, if the White House really did tell YouTube to remove the video I'd be right there with you, saying it was inappropriate. But they didn't do that.

167 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:36:13pm

re: #59 Coracle

Holy hell. I'm being phone-polled by Rassmussen RIGHT NOW.

LOLZ. How'd it go?

I got a robocall from "elect romney" last night. and I got to send back another empty gop fundraising envelope today. Good times!

168 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:36:16pm

There's a difference between having free speech and taking responsibility for your use of it.

169 blueraven  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:36:19pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

They also used the language "Clearly" meets their guidlines. I'm glad Youtube is standing firm on this. I'm not really happy about youtube and google cooperating with censorship in foreign countries either but I guess that's the price to pay for doing business in some places.

wikileaks?

170 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:36:25pm

re: #154 Gus

Although. I'm sure there are exceptions. Flagrant violation that would outright affect national security. If you post a classified or top secret video for instance.

Of course. Things like kiddie porn too. Those things are already illegal.

171 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:36:26pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Yes, I know the progressive concept of free speech. I can't say I'm a big fan of it.

Also amusing coming from you.
Remember your anti free speech stance on boycotts?
;)

172 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:36:42pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

OFFS

173 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:36:43pm

re: #108 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Scott Walker's Gestapo at work

Sorry but it seems pretty fitting at this point.

Given the way the election seems to be trending, Scott Walker may be a very, very lucky man the recall election wasn't scheduled for November.

174 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:36:43pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Yes, I know the progressive concept of free speech. I can't say I'm a big fan of it.

The progressive view of free speech is that even trolls like you get to exercise it.

175 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:37:16pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Yes, I know the progressive concept of free speech. I can't say I'm a big fan of it.

Did you forget that Romney has promised to vigorously prosecute porn?

176 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:37:26pm

re: #166 Charles Johnson

Hey, if the White House really did tell YouTube to remove the video I'd be right there with you, saying it was inappropriate. But they didn't do that.

I don't think it was appropriate for them to even ask for a review.

177 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:37:36pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

This could be very bad. Especially if there are even rumors that the Obama administration or DOJ requested the review. Already the White house requested the movie be taken down by Youtube and some official from DoJ called Terry Jones to complain. I'm not happy about this and it could backfire.

you sound "concerned"

178 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:37:40pm

re: #160 Obdicut

Yeah. I mean, the guy used to make PCP, obviously a review of his parole is some sort of massive problem. Never mind that the production of this movie has marks of fraud all over it, that the actors were duped. Reviewing this guys parole is an affront to the constitution, man.

But OWS? Man, those guys need to be in fucking Gitmo.

A federal criminal whose conditions of parole prohibit the use of computers and the internet who is connected to a crazy anti-Muslim film that got an American ambassador killed having his parole reviewed is clearly tyranny. TYRANNY, I tell you!

179 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:37:43pm

re: #157 Charles Johnson

And I fail to see anything wrong with the White House asking YouTube to review the video to see if it violates their terms of service. Their priority is trying to prevent more violence directed against American embassies and personnel.

Fake outrage.

I disagree with that. If they had taken down the videos it would have made a lot of us wonder about what happened. I don't think they should have asked.

180 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:37:57pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

I don't think it was appropriate for them to even ask for a review.

You still misrepresented what the WH asked.
Why'd you do that I wonder...

181 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:38:29pm

The hourly outrage has arrive!

182 brennant  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:00pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

The hourly outrage has arrive!

Can haz outrage plz?

183 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:06pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

The hourly outrage has arrive!

Exactly.

184 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:12pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

I don't think it was appropriate for them to even ask for a review.

I... agree with the Trout.

But you should admit you fucked up when you claimed that gov't tried to get it taken down.

185 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:20pm

Speaking of videos, watch this one, its very cool and totally won't get anyone killed.

[Link: www.slate.com...]

186 blueraven  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:25pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

The hourly outrage has arrive!

Yes indeed. You started it a bit late today.

187 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:38pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

The hourly outrage has arrive!

No comment on misrepresenting what the WH said?
Or your stance on boycotts being anti free speech?
No surprise.
;)

188 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:41pm

re: #179 Mocking Jay

I don't get why people would suspect any sort of shennanigans. We have an amazingly good amount of press freedom in the US-- the only real smirch on it is our heavy censorship of sex. Other than that, there are no cases I'm aware of, ever, of the government retaliating against or punishing a news organization for going with a story or a media outlet for running something like this.

189 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:45pm

re: #180 Varek Raith

There's really not much difference. I think it's clear the intent of the request was that the White House would prefer the video be taken down. Why else would they request the review?

190 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:52pm

re: #167 funky chicken

If those envelopes are post-paid you could try mailing them back a brick. I know someone who did that ages ago.

The poll call was not bad. Not obviously strongly slanted. I have a small feeling that the name Rassmussen might engender biased response all by itself these days. I'll wager more pollsters are getting reputations, deserved or not, for leaning one way or the other.

191 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:39:58pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

The hourly outrage has arrive!

Because you lied. Liar.

192 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:40:02pm

KT thinks he's the only one amused by his antics.
XD

193 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:40:06pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

I don't think it was appropriate for them to even ask for a review.

I don't either. Otherwise they should have been more discrete about it and used another agency to make the request. I doubt you'll find universal agreement on this around the country and is worthy of debate. There are no set answers to this question.

194 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:40:11pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

The hourly outrage has arrive!

On your part, yeah. You're outraged a convicted felon out on parole is being reviewed to see if he violated his parole.

195 aagcobb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:40:29pm

re: #188 Obdicut

I don't get why people would suspect any sort of shennanigans. We have an amazingly good amount of press freedom in the US-- the only real smirch on it is our heavy censorship of sex. Other than that, there are no cases I'm aware of, ever, of the government retaliating against or punishing a news organization for going with a story or a media outlet for running something like this.

There was the alien and sedition act back in the 18th century.

196 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:40:31pm

re: #178 Lidane

It's the CommieNazi Federal Tyranny! They're gonna send us to teh FEMA camps!!11!

197 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:40:42pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Yes, I know the progressive concept of free speech. I can't say I'm a big fan of it.

The "progressive concept" held by every iteration of the Supreme Court.....since the founding of this country.

Trollolololol.

198 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:40:47pm

re: #189 Killgore Trout

There's really not much difference. I think it's clear the intent of the request was that the White House would prefer the video be taken down. Why else would they request the review?

Now you're just playing games.

199 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:40:50pm

re: #189 Killgore Trout

There's really not much difference. I think it's clear the intent of the request was that the White House would prefer the video be taken down. Why else would they request the review?

Hah!
So you're now redefining words.
Lol.

200 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:41:24pm

re: #179 Mocking Jay

I disagree with that. If they had taken down the videos it would have made a lot of us wonder about what happened. I don't think they should have asked.

If a guy whose conditions of federal parole prohibit the use of the internet and computers uploaded the video, that's an issue.

Also, anyone can ask YouTube to review a video. I could write to YouTube and report a video for any reason I wanted to use. YouTube isn't under any obligation to listen to me. Asking them to review the video or whatever is fine. Those kinds of inquiries come in all the time.

201 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:41:32pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Yes, I know the progressive concept of free speech. I can't say I'm a big fan of it.

Cool. I'm headed to the movie theatre to yell "FIRE!" Wanna join me?

202 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:41:55pm

OK KT,tell me what the proper definition of free speech is then,since my progressive version is flawed.

203 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:41:57pm

re: #189 Killgore Trout

There's really not much difference. I think it's clear the intent of the request was that the White House would prefer the video be taken down. Why else would they request the review?

Yeah, they'd prefer it, and so they asked Youtube whether it really was acceptable under their TOS. They didn't ask for it to be taken down, and, frustrating for the conspiracy theorists who are latching onto this, youtube said that it was within their TOS and so they wouldn't take it down.

204 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:42:06pm

YouTube has a terms of use policy, and anyone can ask them to review any video at the entire site.

My personal opinion, after watching the "trailer" for this piece of shit, is that it should have been taken down for bigotry and hate speech a long time ago. But YouTube is a lot more tolerant of that kind of stuff than they should be.

205 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:42:18pm

re: #190 Coracle

If those envelopes are post-paid you could try mailing them back a brick. I know someone who did that ages ago.

The poll call was not bad. Not obviously strongly slanted. I have a small feeling that the name Rassmussen might engender biased response all by itself these days. I'll wager more pollsters are getting reputations, deserved or not, for leaning one way or the other.

Two of the fragments you were able to repost showed an assumed dichotomy between 'the government' and 'the people'. That's not how it's done in an honest poll.

206 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:42:20pm

re: #200 Lidane

If a guy whose conditions of federal parole prohibit the use of the internet and computers uploaded the video, that's an issue.

Also, anyone can ask YouTube to review a video. I could write to YouTube and report a video for any reason I wanted to use. YouTube isn't under any obligation to listen to me. Asking them to review the video or whatever is fine. Those kinds of inquiries come in all the time.

That's an issue for him. Not for Google.

207 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:42:32pm

re: #201 BongCrodny

Cool. I'm headed to the movie theatre to yell "FIRE!" Wanna join me?

Cool, I was gonna hop on a plane and yell "GRENADES I HAZ THEM!!!"

208 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:42:34pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

This could be very bad. Especially if there are even rumors that the Obama administration or DOJ requested the review. Already the White house requested the movie be taken down by Youtube and some official from DoJ called Terry Jones to complain. I'm not happy about this and it could backfire.

ok, i'll say it more plainly: you have phrased this in the roll of "concern troll"

209 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:42:43pm

re: #197 JamesWI

The "progressive concept" held by every iteration of the Supreme Court.....since the founding of this country.

Trollolololol.

The conservative definition of free speech: You can say anything you want unless it contradicts our narrative. We should be allowed to say whatever we want without criticism or contradiction.

210 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:43:00pm

re: #193 Gus

I don't either. Otherwise they should have been more discrete about it and used another agency to make the request. I doubt you'll find universal agreement on this around the country and is worthy of debate. There are no set answers to this question.

Yeah, I think the request directly from the White House instead of a lesser agency was also mistake.

211 funky chicken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:43:10pm

re: #190 Coracle

Maybe I'll send them a brick next time. I'd hate to cost the post office money though, if it's only a flat rate thing for the envelope.

212 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:44:31pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I think the request directly from the White House instead of a lesser agency was also mistake.

Yeah now means no.
I just decided that.

213 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:44:32pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I think the request directly from the White House instead of a lesser agency was also mistake.

We are all very much concerned about your concerns. Very much. You have saved the day again, oh Holy Arbiter of Truth and Fairness.

214 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:44:33pm

re: #203 Obdicut

Yeah, they'd prefer it, and so they asked Youtube whether it really was acceptable under their TOS. They didn't ask for it to be taken down, and, frustrating for the conspiracy theorists who are latching onto this, youtube said that it was within their TOS and so they wouldn't take it down.

If I were sitting in an embassy guard shack, counting magazines, I'd sort of want it taken down.

215 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:44:35pm

re: #206 Mocking Jay

That's an issue for him. Not for Google.

It's a law enforcement issue, actually. If uploading that video violated his parole, someone has to know that.

216 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:44:57pm

re: #29 Dancing along the light of day

I think it was Lyndon Johnson who said
"call them pig f'ers and make them deny it".

"they said you weren't good enough to eat with the pigs - but i stood up for you and said you were good enough to eat with the pigs"

217 blueraven  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:45:06pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I think the request directly from the White House instead of a lesser agency was also mistake.

Oh brother, if that had been the case, you would have accused the WH anyway. It would have been worse.

218 Coracle  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:45:07pm

re: #205 Decatur Deb

Two of the fragments you were able to repost showed an assumed dichotomy between 'the government' and 'the people'. That's not how it's done in an honest poll.

Exactly. It's pretty subtle. It wouldn't be in any kind of poll I'd put together. But it absolutely looks to set one against the other.

They also asked:
"Who would you trust to make correct decisions about the economy, you or Mitt Romney?"
and the companion question:
"Who would you trust to make correct decisions about the economy, you or Barack Obama?"

219 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:45:39pm

re: #211 funky chicken

Maybe I'll send them a brick next time. I'd hate to cost the post office money though, if it's only a flat rate thing for the envelope.

There's a scifi story I read a long time ago about a guy who can't get his insurance company to pay for a claim. He's a scientist working on high density materials. Eventually he puts in a piece of his material (has the same density as a white dwarf) and mails it back to them in the postage paid envelope.

220 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:45:44pm

re: #215 Lidane

It's a law enforcement issue, actually. If uploading that video violated his parole, someone has to know that.

That doesn't mean Google has to take it down.

221 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:45:58pm

re: #189 Killgore Trout

222 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:46:01pm

Asking to review something now means asking to take down something.

223 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:46:53pm

re: #220 Mocking Jay

That doesn't mean Google has to take it down.

Which is why they didn't.

224 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:47:04pm

YouTube is also overly tolerant of other kinds of hateful material as well - jihadist videos and antisemitic videos are all over the site.

I think they made a deliberate decision a long time ago to allow pretty much anything, no matter how disgusting or hateful. A video has to be WAY over the line for YouTube to pull it.

One video I know got pulled for hate speech recently was the recording of "Rodan" (Rick Martinez) and his racist, violent rant. And that happened because Martinez and his cronies reported it themselves to try to hide it.

225 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:47:22pm

Well,it's Beer O'clock for me kids,have a lovely Friday evening....

226 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:47:34pm

re: #222 Varek Raith

Asking to review something now means asking to take down something.

Of course. In his world, stating disagreement = trying to censor the person you are disagreeing with.

This is what happens when you don't have a "progressive concept" of free speech. The MBF has spoken.

227 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:47:35pm

re: #219 PT Barnum

There's a scifi story I read a long time ago about a guy who can't get his insurance company to pay for a claim. He's a scientist working on high density materials. Eventually he puts in a piece of his material (has the same density as a white dwarf) and mails it back to them in the postage paid envelope.

How did he get it to the mailbox?

228 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:48:10pm

Can we please stop feeding the troll?

229 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:48:35pm

re: #228 bratwurst

Can we please stop feeding the troll?

You're no fun.
:P

230 Iwouldprefernotto  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:49:54pm

re: #53 JamesWI

I posted those polls last night. Obama is up 7 in Ohio, and 5 in both Florida and Virginia.

By most electoral projections, if Obama wins Florida, he'd only need one other "toss-up" state to win the election. And those "toss-ups" include states like Nevada and New Hampshire that are leaning even more heavily for Obama.

Unless Obama comes out in the debates and says "I hate America, I've been secretly working with Al Qaeda this whole time," this has all the makings of a landslide.

Not what he will say, but that will be what conservatives hear.

231 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:51:24pm
232 Mr. Crankypants  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:51:47pm

re: #227 BongCrodny

How did he get it to the mailbox?

I think with a large crane.. I don't remember the name of the story unfortunately.

233 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:52:32pm

re: #231 freetoken

Ahem...

Schenck v. United States

Also,
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

234 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:52:54pm

Well, again -- if your job is protecting US embassies and personnel overseas, it's a hell of lot more cost-effective to use perfectly legitimate above-board remedies, like asking YouTube to review their terms, to try to get the problem resolved without any more violence.

I see nothing wrong at all with what the White House did. If they had actually demanded or tried to pressure YouTube into removing the video it would be another story for me. But requesting a review -- nothing wrong with that. There are people's lives at stake.

235 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:53:02pm

re: #231 freetoken

Ahem...

Schenck v. United States

That "progressive" Supreme Court, led by a Chief Justice who signed on to Plessy v. Ferguson.

236 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:54:11pm

re: #214 Decatur Deb

If I were sitting in an embassy guard shack, counting magazines, I'd sort of want it taken down.

Marines and diplomats should just learn that all our freedoms depend on the ability of bigoted fuckwits to scapegoat others and make them pay for the blowback from their shitty little videos. They should accept this while they burn alive.

237 Big Joe  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:54:12pm

I'm usually late to the party, has anybody seen this yet?

Meet The Right-Wing Extremist Behind Anti-Muslim Film That Sparked Deadly Riots

Klein is a right-wing extremist who emerged from the same axis of Islamophobia that produced Anders Behring Breivik and which takes inspiration from the writings of Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and Daniel Pipes.

It appears Klein (or someone who shares his name and views) is an enthusiastic commenter on Geller’s website, Atlas Shrugged, where he recently complained about Mitt Romney’s “support for a Muslim state in Israel’s Heartland.” In July 2011, Spencer’s website, Jihad Watch, promoted a rally Klein organized alongside the anti-Muslim Coptic extremist Joseph Nasrallah to demand the firing of LA County Sheriff Lee Baca, whom they painted as a dupe for Hamas.

Klein has been closely affiliated with the Church at Kaweah, an extreme evangelical church located 70 miles southeast of Fresno that serves as a nexus of neo-Confederate, Christian Reconstructionist, and militia movement elements. The Southern Poverty Law Center produced a report on Kaweah this spring that noted Klein’s long record of activist against Muslims.

238 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:54:52pm

re: #229 Varek Raith

You're no fun.
:P

I was mildly amused the by first few months of this "tribute to albusteve" act that he does, and how he found the mentality of the majority here to be SO objectionable that he couldn't participate as much anymore...but it has grown tiresome.

239 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:55:32pm

re: #238 bratwurst

I was mildly amused the by first few months of this "tribute to albusteve" act that he does, and how he found the mentality of the majority here to be SO objectionable that he could participate as much anymore...but it has grown tiresome.

Interesting.
For me, it was tiresome as soon as it started.
Now it's funny.
I'm weird.

240 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:56:39pm

re: #239 Varek Raith

Interesting.
For me, it was tiresome as soon as it started.
Now it's funny.
I'm weird.

Well, it's "funny" in the sense that it is amusing to watch someone lose all respect and dignity.

Sort of like how Clint Eastwood's speech was "funny."

241 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:58:01pm

re: #204 Charles Johnson

I think their tolerance is useful, and I think that once something like this is in the wild it's not stoppable from spreading. But I don't think it's unreasonable that a company like youtube might take a more restrictive policy against hate speech. It's totally their right to do so, as long as it's done fairly and not singling out broad groups.

242 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:58:44pm

re: #234 Charles Johnson

Well, again -- if your job is protecting US embassies and personnel overseas, it's a hell of lot more cost-effective to use perfectly legitimate above-board remedies, like asking YouTube to review their terms, to try to get the problem resolved without any more violence.

I see nothing wrong at all with what the White House did. If they had actually demanded or tried to pressure YouTube into removing the video it would be another story for me. But requesting a review -- nothing wrong with that. There are people's lives at stake.

Didn't this all start when their TV stations started airing this? With an Arabic translation? I just don't think that the youtube video itself poses that much of a threat now that it's out there.

243 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 4:58:50pm

re: #238 bratwurst

I was mildly amused the by first few months of this "tribute to albusteve" act that he does, and how he found the mentality of the majority here to be SO objectionable that he could participate as much anymore...but it has grown tiresome.

I still like "I'm barely following the conversation" Killgore.

244 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:00:06pm

re: #242 Mocking Jay

Didn't this all start when their TV stations started airing this? With an Arabic translation? I just don't think that the youtube video itself poses that much of a threat now that it's out there.

Makes it that much easier for every remote rabble-rouser whose village has a celltower.

245 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:00:25pm

re: #234 Charles Johnson

Well, again -- if your job is protecting US embassies and personnel overseas, it's a hell of lot more cost-effective to use perfectly legitimate above-board remedies, like asking YouTube to review their terms, to try to get the problem resolved without any more violence.

I see nothing wrong at all with what the White House did. If they had actually demanded or tried to pressure YouTube into removing the video it would be another story for me. But requesting a review -- nothing wrong with that. There are people's lives at stake.

That's another issue I have with the request. If Youtube had honored the white house's request and taken the video down it would have accomplished absolutely nothing. In fact, most Egyptians became aware of the movie because an Islamist tv channel in Egypt was broadcasting the video in Egypt for weeks before the attacks. The video would still be on the internet, regardless of Youtube and even if it were magically removed from the internet it was still broadcast on Egyptian TV. The request to youtube was pointless.

246 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:00:55pm

youtube is private property and has no obligation to allow posting of videos it does not approve of, and in fact it polices content on its site quite rigorously

in any case the video can hardly be censored in any meaningful sense of the term since it has become highly viral and as such, indelible

247 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:00:55pm

re: #242 Mocking Jay

Asking and being rejected is actually the best possible result for first amendment supporters. It shows the strength of freedom of speech in this country, and can be used as an object lesson for other countries that just because something comes from the US doesn't mean it's approved of by the government.

248 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:01:31pm

re: #242 Mocking Jay

Didn't this all start when their TV stations started airing this? With an Arabic translation? I just don't think that the youtube video itself poses that much of a threat now that it's out there.

On the scale of things the government could do to prevent more violence related to this video, asking YouTube to review it is probably the least expensive. It may or may not have affected the situation if YouTube had pulled it, but that doesn't mean you don't try it anyway.

249 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:01:46pm

re: #243 Obdicut

I still like "I'm barely following the conversation" Killgore.

My favorite is "I skimmed it" and got everything exactly backwards Killgore.

250 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:01:56pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

That's another issue I have with the request. If Youtube had honored the white house's request and taken the video down

There you go again, making up facts and looking stupid.

251 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:02:36pm

I'm going to head out to a masquerade party that has been so badly planned I won't be surprised if I wind up press-ganged and working on a Myanmar-flagged junk tomorrow morning.

252 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:02:51pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

If Youtube had honored the white house's request and taken the video down it would have accomplished absolutely nothing.

Again, the White House did not ask YouTube to take the video down. I don't know why you keep repeating this.

253 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:03:09pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

That's another issue I have with the request. If Youtube had honored the white house's request and taken the video down it would have accomplished absolutely nothing.

Holy shit you never stop...

254 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:03:15pm

re: #251 Obdicut

I'm going to head out to a masquerade party that has been so badly planned I won't be surprised if I wind up press-ganged and working on a Myanmar-flagged junk tomorrow morning.

Ah, good.
I needed more crew.

255 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:03:23pm

re: #241 Obdicut

I think their tolerance is useful, and I think that once something like this is in the wild it's not stoppable from spreading. But I don't think it's unreasonable that a company like youtube might take a more restrictive policy against hate speech. It's totally their right to do so, as long as it's done fairly and not singling out broad groups.

Which is exactly why youtube doesn't want to be in the censorship business. They'd have to take down all the anti-mormon videos, anti-catholic videos, anti-atheist videos, etc. It's just not possible to cater to the most easily offended segments of society with enough time to complain.

256 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:04:11pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

It's just not possible to cater to the most easily offended segments of society with enough time to complain.

Indeed. Just dealing with you is exhausting enough.

257 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:04:38pm

re: #255 Killgore Trout

Which is exactly why youtube doesn't want to be in the censorship business.

As a private company, it's impossible for YouTube to be "in the censorship business." There's no such thing. Only governments can censor speech.

258 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:04:55pm

re: #252 Charles Johnson

Again, the White House did not ask YouTube to take the video down. I don't know why you keep repeating this.

Because he's trolling.

259 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:05:25pm

re: #258 bratwurst

Because he's trolling.

I'm just gonna quote you and shut up now.

260 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:06:32pm

re: #257 Charles Johnson

Exactly. Google is in the business of information management, for money. It will do whatever it has to do to make money.

261 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:06:41pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

If Youtube had honored the white house's request and taken the video down it would have accomplished absolutely nothing.

The only response that's required here:

262 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:08:43pm

re: #243 Obdicut

I still like "I'm barely following the conversation" Killgore.

Or, "I didn't watch, but have an opionion" Kilgore

(Clinton's speech @ DNC)

263 allegro  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:08:46pm

Publicly making the request of YouTube to review the video per its policies is great for putting distance between the video and any official government opinion/policy. Great move to help protect US citizens in the ME.

264 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:08:48pm

re: #257 Charles Johnson

As a private company, it's impossible for YouTube to be "in the censorship business." There's no such thing. Only governments can censor speech.

That's an incorrect definition of the word.

Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body.

265 dragonfire1981  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:12:45pm

re: #24 Gus

In meetings with hard line anti-pornography group, Romney campaign promised to vigorously prosecute porn

"Of course I will do whatever it takes to stop the spread of Smut! Now if you could just give me a few examples of what we're dealing with here..."

266 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:14:02pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

That's an incorrect definition of the word.

How is YouTube a "controlling body?" It's a private company, and there are many alternative ways to publish video on the Internet. It's simply not possible for YouTube to "censor" anything.

267 Tigger2  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:14:50pm

re: #265 dragonfire1981

"Of course I will do whatever it takes to stop the spread of Smut! Now if you could just give me a few examples of what we're dealing with here..."

Knowing the religious right it means anything where ya take off your clothes.

268 dragonfire1981  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:15:06pm

re: #266 Charles Johnson

How is YouTube a "controlling body?" It's a private company, and there are many alternative ways to publish video on the Internet. It's simply not possible for YouTube to "censor" anything.

I would guess he's arguing Youtube could be considered a "media outlet"

269 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:15:19pm

re: #266 Charles Johnson

How is YouTube a "controlling body?"

Simple. KT's trolling again.

270 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:16:25pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

That's an incorrect definition of the word.

the rest of this paragraph reads as follows:

It can be done by governments and private organizations or by individuals who engage in self-censorship. It occurs in a variety of different contexts including speech, books, music, films and other arts, the press, radio, television, and the Internet for a variety of reasons including national security, to control obscenity, child pornography, and hate speech, to protect children, to promote or restrict political or religious views, to prevent slander and libel, and to protect intellectual property. It may or may not be legal. Many countries provide strong protections against censorship by law, but none of these protections are absolute and it is frequently necessary to balance conflicting rights in order to determine what can and cannot be censored.

271 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:17:24pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

Sigh...

Though I respect much of what you do, it really isn't going to help to resort to lexical entries to make your case.

We all "censor" ourselves and each all the time. It is not that meaning of the word "censor" which is up for discussion.

What we are concerned with is our American concept of "Freedom of Speech" as expressed in the 1st Amendment. It is in that context that "censorship" is difficult to define and to allow.

As I tried to point out with the link to the Schenk vs. US, there is a very long series of arguments and decisions over exactly what the government can and cannot do.

In this particular case Google Inc., is simply a provider of services, one whose import has grown large because of market dominance, but it is still not a monopoly, nor a governing body, nor a pseudo-government entity (e.g., Post Office) or a local community district.

Anybody, and that means anybody, can request Youtube to take down a video.

If the Administration thought that the safety of some diplomatic personnel was in imminent danger because of a Youtube video then it is appropriate for them to try and take actions to protect those people. And that includes asking a private entity to take down a publication.

272 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:17:34pm

re: #266 Charles Johnson

How is YouTube a "controlling body?" It's a private company, and there are many alternative ways to publish video on the Internet. It's simply not possible for YouTube to "censor" anything.

They would fall under the category of media outlet.

273 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:21:26pm

censorship, in the violating-the-first-amendment meaning, would be an agent of the government attempting to cause speech not to be ever heard, or if already heard, to attempt to make it impossible to hear again, or, to punish the speaker because of it

if you take the broad definition of the word as delineated in the wikipedia definition, you are describing a range of activities which go far beyond the strict meaning of censorship in the sense that we are protected against it by the constitution

this is a practice of stealing the emotional impact of one meaning of a word when it is being used in quite another context, such as the use of the word "exploit" as an emotional weapon when the actual meaning at point of use may merely be "utilize"

274 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:21:33pm
275 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:23:06pm

Henry Rollins on the protests and violence going on:

[Link: henryrollins.com...]

You make a film that you absolutely know will cause riots and unrest in the Islamic world and release it. The creator of the film chose to do this. Every second of the film was to trigger a reaction. Why is the film maker in hiding? Why isn’t he proud of his work? He’s getting what he wants, right? Americans and others are getting killed over this. What do you think was going to happen. This man does this on his own and it’s the president’s fault? Perhaps this film maker should meet the parents and relatives of the fallen Americans and explain himself. I am sure he would be able to get his point across, it being so valid. Perhaps he should be arrested and charged with multiple murders.

This film was not an exercise in freedom of speech, it was the abuse of that freedom. It was, sadly, what you do out of hatred and intolerance. This is what you do when your side is losing and you want to try and turn things around. This is what you do when you are a coward. That’s the worst part about it, the stunning cowardice.

Now we can look forward to the vandalizing of mosques in America. We can look forward to peaceful, law abiding American citizens getting hassled, injured or worse because of their religious affiliation or country of origin, real or perceived.

This what it is. It is a plain as the nose on your face. If anything, you now see just how small the world really is. You now can understand without a doubt that we are all connected and how you conduct yourself matters. The rest is up to you.

276 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:23:38pm

Bryan Fischer @BryanJFischer

Sharia enshrined at White House. Obama asks YouTube, Google to pull video because it incited deadly violence against americansinsults Islam

let's not remember that aspect of it

277 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:23:41pm

re: #274 Mocking Jay

Gee. That sounds familiar. =P

278 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:23:58pm

re: #251 Obdicut

LOL! Take your pirate outfit!

279 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:26:12pm

re: #271 freetoken

See the definition of Censorship it is not exclusive to government control or 1st amendment issues. It simply isn't no matter how many times people claim otherwise (I've heard this talking point countless times) it just doesn't change the reality of the meaning of the word.

Anybody, and that means anybody, can request Youtube to take down a video.

If the Administration thought that the safety of some diplomatic personnel was in imminent danger because of a Youtube video then it is appropriate for them to try and take actions to protect those people. And that includes asking a private entity to take down a publication.

I'll bypass the same "take down" outrage that was directed at me earlier but I think we all know what the intent of the review request was.
Let's be clear: The video itself poses no danger to anybody. The video is not the problem. It's the violent reaction that's the real danger. Taking the video down only gives the Islamists a victory and they're not going to suddenly become peaceful when they get what they want. No lives would be saved by taking the video down.
I don't think it's the government's place to request reviews of videos on youtube that do not violate the law.

280 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:28:17pm

Off topic...

In the abortion wars I have often scoffed at those who try and equate the presence of DNA to the idea of a "person". Well, guess who went there - good ol' "You Can't 'Splain That!" Bill O.:

Abortion eliminates life. That's what the procedure does. Human DNA is present upon conception. If the Catholic Church believes that abortion is against what God intended, then it should be just as adamant about stating its case as Caroline Kennedy is about stating hers.

Dolt.

Human DNA is present, in much greater quantity, in every bit of spittle I toss to the ground than there is in a single fertilized egg.

281 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:28:59pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

The video itself poses no danger to anybody

manifestly the opposite of the truth

282 steve_davis  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:30:57pm

re: #53 JamesWI

I posted those polls last night. Obama is up 7 in Ohio, and 5 in both Florida and Virginia.

By most electoral projections, if Obama wins Florida, he'd only need one other "toss-up" state to win the election. And those "toss-ups" include states like Nevada and New Hampshire that are leaning even more heavily for Obama.

Unless Obama comes out in the debates and says "I hate America, I've been secretly working with Al Qaeda this whole time," this has all the makings of a landslide.

Actually, if he said he'd secretly been working with them, I'd probably still vote for him, just because it's seems to beat hell out of the last administration's not-so-secret assistance through providing numerous flashpoints for AQ operatives.

283 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:31:41pm

re: #214 Decatur Deb

If I were sitting in an embassy guard shack, counting magazines, I'd sort of want it taken down.

Case in point:

NM National Guard troops come under fire in Sinai attack

[...]

New Mexico Governor Susana Martinez and Brigadier General Andrew Salas released the following joing statement today regarding the attack:

"This afternoon, we received reports from Egypt that violent and armed protestors attacked and attempted to gain entry to the headquarters of the Multinational Force and Observers in the Sinai where New Mexico National Guard Soldiers are serving alongside other U.S. and Coalition Military troops. Early reports from the unit indicate that the attack was beaten back, and though a few coalition troops from other countries sustained injuries, we have been told that no U.S. Soldiers were injured. Appropriate force protection measures have been initiated by the command. We will continue to monitor the situation in northern Egypt and will communicate with the families of our Soldiers about further developments as they become available to us. New Mexico National Guard Soldiers are well trained, highly skilled and equipped to complete their mission; we appreciate their sacrifice and service during this difficult time, as conflict and violence has entered into their peacekeeping efforts. Our prayers are with our New Mexico soldiers in Egypt and their families, as well as with all other military personnel who are protecting our freedom throughout the world."

284 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:32:30pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

I'm quite fine with private entities willfully "censoring" themselves if they think it is in their best interest.

The administration is not forcing Google Inc. to take any action. It is requesting something to be done that Google says anybody can do - review some of its freely distributed content.

As for this:

Taking the video down only gives the Islamists a victory and they're not going to suddenly become peaceful when they get what they want.

I disagree. If, as you claim, the Youtube video is now irrelevant, then why would it be recognized as some sort of "victory" by those who are rioting?

285 Kaessa  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:34:45pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's the government's place to request reviews of videos on youtube that do not violate the law.

Perhaps they wanted YouTube to review it and see if it WAS in violation of the law or YouTube's TOS.

286 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:36:09pm

re: #275 Lidane

Henry Rollins on the protests and violence going on:

[Link: henryrollins.com...]

Well said, Henry. Kudos.

287 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:37:11pm

re: #284 freetoken

I disagree. If, as you claim, the Youtube video is now irrelevant, than why would it be recognized as some sort of "victory" by those who are rioting?

The video is just an excuse. There will always be a new excuse. Just ask Salman Rushdie, Theo Van Gogh, or the Danish Cartoonsist or the retarded girl in Pakistan falsely accused of burning the Quran. The examples are countless, they happen every day and are usually directed towards fellow Muslims or non Muslim countrymen. The video is irrelevant, it's just an excuse.

288 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:37:23pm

I don't think it's the government's place to request reviews of videos on youtube that do not violate the law.

i do tend to think that it's the government's "place" to concern itself with issues of public safety, what?

289 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:40:05pm

re: #283 wrenchwench

Case in point:

NM National Guard troops come under fire in Sinai attack

We supported the MoFO's from our base in Italy, and from our embassy in Tel Aviv. Those guys are in the middle of freakn' nowhere, and there aren't many of them.

290 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:44:21pm

re: #272 Killgore Trout

They would fall under the category of media outlet.

So it's your view that as a "media company," YouTube should never be able to exercise editorial judgment over what content they publish, or it would constitute "censorship?"

That's ridiculous, of course. I know you can't seriously be arguing that.

And the word "censorship" also means that the content being "censored" is not available anywhere else. It's the active prevention of that content being published. If YouTube takes down a video, there's absolutely nothing to stop the maker of the video from posting it at another video site or hosting it themselves.

Please explain what definition of censorship this fits.

291 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:45:08pm

re: #287 Killgore Trout

...The examples are countless, they happen every day and are usually directed towards fellow Muslims or non Muslim countrymen. The video is irrelevant, it's just an excuse.

Perhaps you've been too invested in this because now you are starting to sound like some of the anti-Islam activists.

Increased violent reactions and protests have increased over the past 15 years or so, and especially in the past 40 years compared to the immediate post WWII era, in parts of the Islamic dominated nations, in particular certain Middle-East nations.

This is all part of the collapse of the controlled-by-the-gun order after WWII (and actually WWI.)

I stated a couple of days ago that I am convinced that these riots are manipulated by the few "leaders" who are trying to position themselves to take power in those countries.

This is less about Islam than it is about controlling gangs of young men (and it is mostly young men) for power grabs by local dictator wanna-bes. Yes, they may want to be religious power men, but it is the lust for power and control that is fomenting revolution.

292 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:45:37pm

re: #275 Lidane

Henry Rollins on the protests and violence going on:

[Link: henryrollins.com...]

i want to hear from sonny rollins

293 gwangung  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:46:05pm

I don't think it's the government's place to request reviews of videos on youtube that do not violate the law.

Sure it is. If there's no coercive power behind the request, then it falls quite neatly under the power of the government to protect the well being of its citizen.

And since it is a request, that is the least restrictive means for it to do so.

It is NOT the goverment's place to do less than its best to protect its citizens.

294 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:46:31pm

re: #289 Decatur Deb

We supported the MoFO's from our base in Italy, and from our embassy in Tel Aviv. Those guys are in the middle of freakn' nowhere, and there aren't many of them.

And they're taking heat because some assholes in California stirred up some shit. Assholes have the right to stir up some shit, but when they don't stand up and say, "This is my stick, and I'm doing some stirring," but instead say, "100 Jews paid some guy that I know who doesn't use his real name to stir some shit, I just loaned him my stick," then I have no trouble calling that an abuse of free speech.

295 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:48:07pm

re: #287 Killgore Trout

The video is just an excuse. There will always be a new excuse. Just ask Salman Rushdie, Theo Van Gogh, or the Danish Cartoonsist or the retarded girl in Pakistan falsely accused of burning the Quran. The examples are countless, they happen every day and are usually directed towards fellow Muslims or non Muslim countrymen. The video is irrelevant, it's just an excuse.

give some examples that aren't about insulting islam

296 gwangung  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:48:35pm

re: #294 wrenchwench

And they're taking heat because some assholes in California stirred up some shit. Assholes have the right to stir up some shit, but when they don't stand up and say, "This is my stick, and I'm doing some stirring," but instead say, "100 Jews paid some guy that I know who doesn't use his real name to stir some shit, I just loaned him my stick," then I have no trouble calling that an abuse of free speech.

I got no problem with pointing my finger at him and saying, "You're the idiot who did this."

And I'd have no problem transporting him to a room to meet the families of the men killed.

297 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:49:11pm

Please note, again: I've said more than once now that if the Obama administration actually did try to suppress the publication of this video in a real way, I'd be right there calling it inappropriate and wrong.

But it didn't happen. Yes, it's a fake outrage.

298 Iwouldprefernotto  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:53:47pm

re: #297 Charles Johnson

Please note, again: I've said more than once now that if the Obama administration actually did try to suppress the publication of this video in a real way, I'd be right there calling it inappropriate and wrong.

But it didn't happen. Yes, it's a fake outrage.

Have there been any real outrages recently? Ever?

299 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:55:32pm

More off topic... but newsy non the less:

Wisconsin state judge strikes down collective bargaining law

A Wisconsin judge struck down on Friday the state's controversial collective bargaining law pressed by Republican Governor Scott Walker, ruling that it unconstitutionally limits the rights of many public sector union workers.

Walker responded to the ruling by saying that a "liberal activist judge in Dane County" wanted to take away the lawmaking responsibilities of the legislature and governor.

[...]

TYRANTS IN BLACK ROBES!!

300 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:56:31pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

I think we all know what the intent of the review request was.

Yes, we do, because the White House told us what the intent was -- to bring the video to YouTube's attention and ask them to review it to see if it violates their terms. If YouTube then decided to pull the video, it would be totally their decision, obviously, and it would not be "censorship." It would be editorial judgment.

301 Stentor  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:57:08pm

Project much, Mittens? Next thing you know, he'll be accusing President Obama of flip-flopping, or hiding his money in secret numbered accounts offshore.

302 allegro  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:57:36pm

I would think YouTube would want to take the hateful thing down simply out of respect for the diplomats and American soldiers who died along with their families. It shouldn't be hard to answer to any complaints of, "Oh wow, now you're going to censor videos just cuz they were used to get people killed?"

303 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:58:35pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

If they really wanted it taken down, I have no doubts they could've pulled something out of the Patriot Act to do it.

304 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:58:52pm

As it turns out, YouTube apparently decided not to pull the video. But this is no big victory for "free speech," because the issue of whether or not a video is allowed at YouTube has absolutely nothing to do with free speech.

305 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 5:59:11pm

"The Constitution is not a suicide pact":

In the 1949 Terminiello case, the majority opinion by Justice William O. Douglas overturned the disorderly conduct conviction of a priest whose anti-Semitic, pro-Nazi rantings at a rally had incited a riot. The Court held that Chicago's breach of the peace ordinance violated the First Amendment.

Associate Justice Robert Jackson wrote a twenty-four page dissent in response to the Court's four page decision, which concluded: "The choice is not between order and liberty. It is between liberty with order and anarchy without either. There is danger that, if the court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact."

From the wiki article:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

306 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:00:42pm

re: #299 freetoken

More off topic... but newsy non the less:

Wisconsin state judge strikes down collective bargaining law

TYRANTS IN BLACK ROBES!!

Dane County Circuit Court Judge Juan Colas ruled that the law passed by Wisconsin lawmakers in a contentious session in 2011 violated the union members' free speech, association and equal protection rights in the state and U.S. constitutions.

Ya think?

307 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:00:47pm

re: #299 freetoken

More off topic... but newsy non the less:

Wisconsin state judge strikes down collective bargaining law

TYRANTS IN BLACK ROBES!!

Doesn't matter. The state supreme court is packed with far right activist judges so everyone will go through the motions and spend lots of money huffing and puffing and the workers of Wisconsin will still be screwed.

308 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:01:53pm

Most definitely back on topic:


86 arrested as US consulate attacked over anti-Islam film

Eighty-six people were arrested yesterday after a group of several hundred Muslim protesters threw stones and smashed windows at the US consulate in Chennai, police said.

“They smashed the window panes, surveillance camera and tried to scale the compound wall, but we dispersed them while exercising restraint,” a senior police officer said on condition of anonymity. We made 86 arrests.”

The violence flared during a protest organised by the Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam, an Islamist movement, against an anti-Islam film which has triggered similar protests in large parts of the Muslim world.

The protesters also burnt an effigy of US President Barack Obama and an American flag, police said.

[...]

One of the organisers said that what had been planned as a peaceful protest was hijacked by militants.

“We wanted to organise a peaceful demonstration to express our dismay over the film, but the youngsters, who could not hold their nerves, ran and attacked the consulate office,” Gunangudi Hanifa said.

[...]

Google announced earlier yesterday that its video-sharing website YouTube had blocked access in India to the film. The block was in response to a court order in Jammu and Kashmir, a company official said on the condition of anonymity.

“We do, at times, block content in response to a court order or other valid legal process,” a Google spokesman said.

[...]

Hmmm... if they burnt an effigy of Obama will that now make it ok with the wingnuts?

Anyway, this article points out how a few young people are the one who went violent, and the organization which planned the protest has a long history of suspicious activity.

309 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:02:39pm

re: #290 Charles Johnson

So it's your view that as a "media company," YouTube should never be able to exercise editorial judgment over what content they publish, or it would constitute "censorship?"

That's ridiculous, of course. I know you can't seriously be arguing that.

of course I'm not.

And the word "censorship" also means that the content being "censored" is not available anywhere else. .

Censorship can also mean that the information is obliterated from history much in the same way killing can also include genocide and extermination. True.

Please explain what definition of censorship this fits

I already linked to the Wiki article so I suppose linking to it again would be pointless.

310 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:02:44pm

re: #298 Iwouldprefernotto

Have there been any real outrages recently? Ever?

I'd say we have a good candidate here.

311 dragonath  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:04:00pm

Gotta love Youtube. They leave up the worst kinds of conspiracy videos but flinch when the slightest RIAA complaint comes up.

312 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:04:53pm

re: #300 Charles Johnson

Yes, we do, because the White House told us what the intent was -- to bring the video to YouTube's attention and ask them to review it to see if it violates their terms. If YouTube then decided to pull the video, it would be totally their decision, obviously, and it would not be "censorship." It would be editorial judgment.

I feel pretty confident Youtube was already aware of the video. I'm also sure there were also lots of requests to have it taken down or reviewed. The White House didn't need to get involved.

313 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:05:17pm

re: #310 wrenchwench

I'd say we have a good candidate here.

Hey now, don't hijack this thread! We were busy debating the incredibly important issue of how terrible it is that the White House asked a company to review a video, the company did and decided to keep the video, and the White House......accepted this judgment.

Real important stuff!!!! Tyrants!!!! War on facts!!!!11ty

314 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:05:42pm

re: #309 Killgore Trout

Because a viral video that's been archived by mainstream media sources and bloggers around the world will suddenly be lost to history if YouTube decided to delete it. Really. There are no other video outlets online anywhere.

You DO understand that the internet is forever, right?

315 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:05:57pm

re: #308 freetoken

Google announced earlier yesterday that its video-sharing website YouTube had blocked access in India to the film. The block was in response to a court order in Jammu and Kashmir, a company official said on the condition of anonymity.

Anyone looking for examples of real censorship? There it is.

And it's not Google or YouTube doing the censoring, it's a government.

316 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:07:11pm

re: #314 Lidane

Because a viral video that's been archived by mainstream media sources and bloggers around the world will suddenly be lost to history if YouTube decided to delete it. Really. There are no other video outlets online anywhere.

You DO understand that the internet is forever, right?

It's also being broadcast of Egyptian TV. Taking the video off youtube would be pointless.

317 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:07:58pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

One of their diplomats and several security guards got killed in part because of that video. But you're right. They couldn't possibly have had any interest at all in it.

Your trolling is losing its edge. How about the fact that Twitter has turned over tweets by OWS participants to law enforcement? Post about that for a while.

318 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:08:47pm

re: #317 Lidane

One of their diplomats and several security guards got killed in part because of that video. But you're right. They couldn't possibly have had any interest at all in it.

Your trolling is losing its edge. How about the fact that Twitter has turned over tweets by OWS participants to law enforcement? Post about that for a while.

But OWS deserved it!
/

319 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:09:20pm

re: #315 Charles Johnson

And it's not Google or YouTube doing the censoring, it's a government.

And not just any government - in democratic India.

And, there are good reasons. Note where the riot was located, in Chennai, in the state Tamil Nadu. "Tamil" ought to ring at least one bell, for those who have followed the recent history of south India and Sri Lanka.

320 blueraven  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:09:29pm

Absolutism in most things is not healthy...even in free speech

This was not just a film that indirectly insulted a religion, this was a film made with the intent to incite violence.
Meanwhile the cowards who made it tried to scapegoat it to another religious group.

Intent should count for something.

321 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:10:01pm

Youtube is certainly within their rights. I wonder if, as the bodies pile up, some survivors won't feel it's within their rights to sue YT's deep-pocketed asses off.

322 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:10:55pm

re: #316 Killgore Trout

I don't understand - on the one hand you're arguing that pulling the video from YouTube would involve this:

Censorship can also mean that the information is obliterated from history much in the same way killing can also include genocide and extermination.

But on the other hand, you're arguing that the video can't be censored because it's already all over the place, which is of course exactly the point I'm making.

It's also being broadcast of Egyptian TV. Taking the video off youtube would be pointless.

Which is it? Censorship? Or not censorship?

323 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:11:31pm
324 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:12:42pm

re: #317 Lidane

One of their diplomats and several security guards got killed in part because of that video. But you're right. They couldn't possibly have had any interest at all in it.

It appears the attack in Libya was a planned event not related to the video.

Your trolling is losing its edge. How about the fact that Twitter has turned over tweets by OWS participants to law enforcement? Post about that for a while.

I'll let the courts and twitter argue over that. However, Using a public site like twitter to plan or brag about illegal activity is pretty stupid. Tweets have already been used in court, creating a public record of a crime is pretty stupid on the part of the criminal.

325 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:12:54pm

re: #322 Charles Johnson

Which is it? Censorship? Or not censorship?

It's whichever one KT feels like trolling with at the time.

326 SpaceJesus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:13:47pm

part of me cant help but smirk at msnbc covering goonswarm, but still. r.i.p., bud

[Link: video.msnbc.msn.com...]

327 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:14:10pm

Heh. Maddow just called the maker of the video a "wingnut."

328 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:14:29pm

re: #326 SpaceJesus

part of me cant help but smirk at msnbc covering goonswarm, but still. r.i.p., bud

[Link: video.msnbc.msn.com...]

Met him in Eve a few times.

329 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:16:19pm

Played Eve for three months. Everyone sucked...

330 darthstar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:17:20pm

Looking forward to Bill Maher tonight...everyone's been so gentle on Mitt this week, given his "any sane party would have ripped him off the ticket and replaced him with a fucking yule log by now to cut their losses" idiocy this week. I really want to see some actual, visceral, metaphorical blood. I want to see a staunch Mitt supporter come out and say, "Fuck it, the guy's a fucking wreck! We're better with Obama!" because you know as well as I do that THAT is exactly what 99.9% of Romney's current supporters are thinking, but afraid to admit.

331 darthstar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:17:45pm

re: #329 Mocking Jay

Played Eve for three months. Everyone sucked...

Babe, can I get a little rib?
--Adam.

332 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:18:01pm

Killgore, sadly, you have become a troll. I am sure the Harpy and the Gnome would love to have you over at their site. You might even want to make reservations over at DoD. You used to be a must read, now, you are a must scroll over. sad.

333 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:19:02pm

Playing on the fears:


Bomb threats prompt evacuations at 3 campuses

Thousands of people streamed off three college campuses Friday after bomb threats prompted officials to issue evacuation orders for schools in Texas, North Dakota and Ohio.

The campuses of the University of Texas at Austin and North Dakota State University in Fargo had been deemed safe by early afternoon, and authorities were working to determine whether those threats were related. A third evacuation order for much-smaller Hiram College in northeast Ohio was issued hours later and remained in effect Friday evening.

[...]


The threats on the much-larger campuses in Texas and North Dakota ended as false alarms after tens of thousands of people followed urgently worded evacuation orders, one of which some worried didn't come fast enough.

[...]


Graduate student Lee Kiedrowski of Dickinson, N.D., said he was walking on the NDSU campus when he got a text message telling him to evacuate within 15 minutes.

"The panic button wasn't triggered quite immediately," Kiedrowski said. "But there was definitely the thought that we live in a different world now, and with everything that's going on with the riots at the U.S. embassies in the Middle East, your brain just starts moving. You never really know what's going on."

The UT president acknowledged officials in Texas also considered the current political climate.

"Certainly the global situation would be part of what we look at when we evaluate any threat," Powers said.

[...]

334 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:19:31pm

re: #322 Charles Johnson

I don't understand - on the one hand you're arguing that pulling the video from YouTube would involve this:

But on the other hand, you're arguing that the video can't be censored because it's already all over the place, which is of course exactly the point I'm making.

Which is it? Censorship? Or not censorship?

Dude, you've completely lost the plot. I'll stick with the Wiki definition of censorship.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body. It can be done by governments and private organizations or by individuals who engage in self-censorship.

Having Youtube as a "media outlet" censoring the video would be pointless because it's already widely available elsewhere on the web and being brodcast on Egytian TV. Why bother with youtube? It's pointless. Even if the video were to be magically erased from history the effect would be as minimal as earasing The Satanic Verses, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Fitna, the Danish Cartoons, etc. The end result in reduction of violence would be negligible at best.

335 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:20:07pm

re: #332 Bubblehead II

Too harsh. We're really getting into the howling season now. In 54 days we'll hit 'Reset'.

336 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:20:09pm
337 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:20:17pm

Fantastically pedantic asshole is fantastically pedantic.

338 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:20:52pm

re: #332 Bubblehead II

Killgore, sadly, you have become a troll. I am sure the Harpy and the Gnome would love to have you over at their site. You might even want to make reservations over at DoD. You used to be a must read, now, you are a must scroll over. sad.

Sorry you feel that way.

339 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:22:02pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

Why bother with youtube? It's pointless.

Tell that to the court in Tamil Nadu.

340 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:23:45pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

You still haven't explained how YouTube exercising their judgment on which videos they publish constitutes "censorship," even by the Wikipedia definition that you're trying (ineptly) to use to support your argument. That definition says "censorship" is SUPPRESSION of speech or other content, and if YouTube decides not to publish a video it's just impossible to argue that this is equivalent to "suppressing" it.

You're basically arguing against your own points.

341 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:27:00pm

re: #332 Bubblehead II

Killgore, sadly, you have become a troll. I am sure the Harpy and the Gnome would love to have you over at their site. You might even want to make reservations over at DoD. You used to be a must read, now, you are a must scroll over. sad.

Been that way since he got scared by OWS exercising their rights.

342 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:27:06pm

I wonder if, circa 1914 or 1915, if the state of the "world" felt like it does now?

My relatives who were alive at the time (grandparents, and a couple of uncles - my dad was born in 1917 and he had 3 older brothers) are now gone, so I have no one to ask directly.

My mom can tell me what it was like pre-WWII, but my instinct is that today's international dynamic is more like it was in the second decade of the twentieth century, though with the parties all mixed up.

343 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:27:13pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

You still haven't explained how YouTube exercising their judgment on which videos they publish constitutes "censorship," even by the Wikipedia definition that you're trying (ineptly) to use to support your argument. That definition says "censorship" is SUPPRESSION of speech or other content, and if YouTube decides not to publish a video it's just impossible to argue that this is equivalent to "suppressing" it.

You're basically arguing against your own points.

It's the same theory he uses to whine about how people freely deciding to boycott a product = censorship.

That is, the theory of "if you repeat the same bullshit over and over again, you might sound convincing"

344 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:27:42pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

You still haven't explained how YouTube exercising their judgment on which videos they publish constitutes "censorship," even by the Wikipedia definition that you're trying (ineptly) to use to support your argument. That definition says "censorship" is SUPPRESSION of speech or other content, and if YouTube decides not to publish a video it's just impossible to argue that this is equivalent to "suppressing" it.

You're basically arguing against your own points.

Youtube is free to "suppress" the video if they choose to. They are a private company and are free to do as they wish. However, they seem to be well aware of the video and their own terms of service. There was no need for the whitehouse to request they review their decision to allow the video.

345 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:29:00pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

You make a cute punching bag. Hang in there!

346 allegro  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:29:18pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

Why bother with youtube? It's pointless.

It would be as pointless as all of those Libyans holding up signs saying "we're sorry" and those saying that the thugs and murderers do not represent them. For us to stand up and say "the assholes who made this film do not represent us and we find it hateful and unacceptable" would be a damn positive stand to take. To say nothing and to let it sit there under some flag of freedom is an ugly testimonial to all of us as a people.

347 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:31:02pm

re: #335 Decatur Deb

Too harsh. We're really getting into the howling season now. In 54 days we'll hit 'Reset'.

I don't think so. Killgore crossed the line. The only question is were does he want to reside? With us? Or with them?

It is a simple question.

348 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:31:32pm

re: #344 Killgore Trout

Youtube is free to "suppress" the video if they choose to. They are a private company and are free to do as they wish. However, they seem to be well aware of the video and their own terms of service. There was no need for the whitehouse to request they review their decision to allow the video.

I see a very clear rationale for making the request -- to protect the lives and property of Americans serving overseas. And it's not the only thing the Obama administration did - they also sent in the Marines.

Asking YouTube to review their terms of service for this hateful piece of shit video was probably a lot less expensive.

349 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:32:35pm

re: #344 Killgore Trout

Youtube is free to "suppress" the video if they choose to. They are a private company and are free to do as they wish. However, they seem to be well aware of the video and their own terms of service. There was no need for the whitehouse to request they review their decision to allow the video.

Maybe it was just to be seen as being responsible to the powers that be in the Mideast. They're over there trying to quell a shitstorm; perhaps it was just to give some reassurance that the folks in the White House aren't as nuts as the people who made the video.

350 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:33:58pm

re: #347 Bubblehead II

I don't think so. Killgore crossed the line. The only question is were does he want to reside? With us? Or with them?

It is a simple question.

Who's to say he doesn't already reside with them, under another name? I can't really tell the difference between KT and your run-of-the-mill stalker anymore.

351 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:34:05pm

Mitt Romney, Rep. Paul Ryan to start receiving intelligence briefings next week, campaign says - @ABC

hypothetically, this should result in them starting to act intelligent

352 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:34:07pm

re: #347 Bubblehead II

I don't think so. Killgore crossed the line. The only question is were does he want to reside? With us? Or with them?

It is a simple question.

Nah. The whole breadth of LGF doesn't begin to span the distance from us to them, even counting Buck and Destro.

353 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:35:15pm

re: #275 Lidane

Henry Rollins on the protests and violence going on:

[Link: henryrollins.com...]

I'm behind in the thread, forgive.

But, Lidane, thanks so much for posting that. Spot on Henry.

354 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:35:18pm

re: #349 BongCrodny

Maybe it was just to be seen as being responsible to the powers that be in the Mideast. They're over there trying to quell a shitstorm; perhaps it was just to give some reassurance that the folks in the White House aren't as nuts as the people who made the video.

You mean it might have been an effort in good faith on behalf of other countries that had violent protests going on? The hell you say!

Don't you know? It's tyranny and suppression! KT said so!

355 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:35:25pm

The Australian ABC gets some mileage out of the story:

Fears of 'carnage' as anti-US protests hit UK

[...]

The protest remained peaceful, but demonstrators set fire to a US and an Israeli flag.

Saiful Islam, a spokesman from Defenders of the Prophet, expects more protests in the UK and Europe.

[...]

But other Muslims in London told Saturday AM the violent protests go too far, and that words should only be fought with words.

"To be quite honest, it's quite characteristic of this organisation to convene whenever a reality like this occurs," one bystander said.

[...]

356 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:36:18pm

Hmmm... why didn't the mp3 embed bring up the mp3 player?

let's try again:


357 SpaceJesus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:36:28pm

re: #328 Varek Raith

I only played in goonswarm for a year before quitting a long time ago. I know him from the politics forum at SA which is pretty much my online "hangout."

358 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:36:29pm

re: #347 Bubblehead II

I have some pretty large differences of opinion with KT these days, but I'd never lump him in with those hateful cretins.

359 sagehen  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:36:58pm

re: #69 Obdicut

In more important news, I no longer have love-handles. Dropped twenty pounds in the last six months, and gotten hella strong at the same time. The 92nd street Y rocks. It's my favorite thing about NYC. Great cultural programming, a fun, active, inclusive yet still definitely Jewish place, and an amazing, low-pressure gym with great trainers. I advise everyone to move to the Upper East Side of Manhattan and take advantage of it. I'm in the best shape I've been since I got sidelined by a hernia fourteen years ago. They're a non-profit, too.

Awesome things can be achieved by like-minded people working together to help their community. I'm very grateful to all the people there who put in the work to keep it going. I think it's time for a donation.

Why on earth would I move to the UES? Here on the UWS we've got the JCC, which is just as good... and we have Riverside Park, which you don't. (also, our restaurants are more affordable than yours, our Zabar's is the original, our boutiques are trendier, our factory outlets have better bargains, and the Museum of Natural History has Neil DeGrasse Tyson and dinosaurs.)

(I actually don't know if the weight room and other gyms at the JCC are as good as yours, I only go for the pool, but the locker room is awesome and the pool room has 20 foot tall windows all the way across two of the walls. Someday I want to rent it for a midnight private party.)

360 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:37:01pm

As long as we're talking about people who are spectacularly wrong:

361 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:37:44pm

re: #347 Bubblehead II

I don't think so. Killgore crossed the line. The only question is were does he want to reside? With us? Or with them?

It is a simple question.

To be honest -- and I'll freely concede I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer -- what Killgore's arguing seems to be the exact same thing that Bryan Fischer tweeted above (see Mocking Jay's #274).

362 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:37:47pm

re: #356 freetoken

The URL was missing the 'http' prefix.

363 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:38:33pm

re: #359 sagehen

the Museum of Natural History has Neil DeGrasse Tyson and dinosaurs

This is reason enough for me to move to the UWS if I ever end up in New York.

364 freetoken  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:38:44pm

re: #362 Charles Johnson

The URL was missing the 'http' prefix.

Yeah, I edited that back in.

365 allegro  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:39:17pm

How many times have we heard that the moderate Muslims are not reining in their extremists so therefore they are all implicated in the actions of a few. When does that attitude start applying to us?

366 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:39:37pm

re: #359 sagehen

Breaking my heart. Used to live on 77th, a half-block from the NHM, and on 75th, a half block from the Park. Used to walk to the Thalia for the summer double features.

367 jaunte  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:41:06pm

Now THIS is a troll:

368 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:41:12pm

re: #360 Lidane

As long as we're talking about people who are spectacularly wrong:

[Embedded content]

there is a real bull market in not seeing the obvious, this fall

369 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:41:32pm

re: #360 Lidane

As long as we're talking about people who are spectacularly wrong:

[Embedded content]

Morris was already known as the world's most unsavory pundit (with his history of licking prostitutes feet and all)...but he is making a strong push to be known as the dumbest as well. It will really be something if anyone at Fox can even take him seriously if he is proven to be as wrong as he presently appears.

370 allegro  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:43:12pm

re: #367 jaunte

[Embedded content]

That was answered and debunked yesterday, Donald. Do try to keep up.

371 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:43:58pm

re: #366 Decatur Deb

Breaking my heart. Used to live on 77th, a half-block from the NHM, and on 75th, a half block from the Park. Used to walk to the Thalia for the summer double features.

the thalia! oracle of my youth!

(swoon!)

how i miss the art houses and revival houses! any movie in the universe on demand on my laptop is just not the same thing!!!

372 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:44:25pm

re: #301 Stentor

Hi & welcome back! h/t WW

373 JamesWI  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:44:30pm

Troll Objective: Derail thread into discussing probably the least important aspect of the story.

Troll Objective Status: Achieved.

374 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:45:23pm

re: #368 engineer cat

there is a real bull market in not seeing the obvious, this fall

I can't wait to see the head explosions on the right if the current polls hold and Obama wins a second term. So many people will be shocked that they were so wrong. Then they'll blame Americans for being too stupid to see the truth about Obama and blame Romney for not being conservative enough.

375 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:46:10pm

re: #374 Lidane

I can't wait to see the head explosions on the right if the current polls hold and Obama wins a second term. So many people will be shocked that they were so wrong. Then they'll blame Americans for being too stupid to see the truth about Obama and blame Romney for not being conservative enough.

I think you are going to see a lot of accusations of fraud as well.

376 Only The Lurker Knows  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:46:21pm

re: #358 Charles Johnson

I have some pretty large differences of opinion with KT these days, but I'd never lump him in with those hateful cretins.

Your choice. I can understand it because I have fallen into the same pit as K.T. But I think I have learned to at least crawl out of it, shake it off and move on. K.T.? Well, that is another story. His (and) your choice.

377 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:46:40pm

pretty soon i will raving about the upper west side of the 1960s and i might as well be lamenting the hippodrome and girly shows at minsky's for all anybody remembers any of it

i want a $4.50 dinner of mofongo and maduros at the taza de oro at 100th st and bway

378 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:46:46pm

re: #371 engineer cat

the thalia! oracle of my youth!

(swoon!)

how i miss the art houses and revival houses! any movie in the universe on demand on my laptop is just not the same thing!!!

Damn near learned Swedish at the Thalia. It died, but Leonard Nimoy has brought it back (without the 2-per-night, though).

379 Lidane  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:46:54pm

re: #375 bratwurst

I think you are going to see a lot of accusations of fraud as well.

Our voter purges and voter ID laws failed! Clearly there was voter fraud involved!

380 allegro  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:47:17pm

re: #374 Lidane

I can't wait to see the head explosions on the right if the current polls hold and Obama wins a second term. So many people will be shocked that they were so wrong. Then they'll blame Americans for being too stupid to see the truth about Obama and blame Romney for not being conservative enough.

Hell, Ryan has already decided they've lost and has gone back to campaigning for his congressional seat. Has any VP candidate in the history of the US ever done that?

381 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:47:37pm

re: #379 Lidane

Yes, I honestly believe that is how it is going to go!

382 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:48:16pm

re: #358 Charles Johnson

I have some pretty large differences of opinion with KT these days, but I'd never lump him in with those hateful cretins.

Thanks, sort of, I think, maybe,
/ not sure if compliment.

383 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:49:09pm

Sometime today when I wasn't paying attention, I crossed the 5,000 Twitter followers barrier.

384 dragonath  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:49:13pm

re: #378 Decatur Deb

Wait, Nimoy funds art house theatres?

cool

385 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:50:53pm

re: #374 Lidane

re: #375 bratwurst

Need to do a page pre-excusing the TPGOP implosion. Too tired right now.

386 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:51:02pm

re: #383 Charles Johnson

Do you get a toaster for that?

387 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:51:41pm

re: #378 Decatur Deb

Damn near learned Swedish at the Thalia. It died, but Leonard Nimoy has brought it back (without the 2-per-night, though).

it's back? really? wasn't the building eradicated?

388 researchok  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:52:19pm

re: #377 engineer cat

Before my time but I do recall visiting the UWS during 'gentrification' wars.

389 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:52:55pm

re: #386 Dancing along the light of day

Do you get a toaster for that?

Wouldn't that be nice? But I'll take the genuine leather wallet instead.

390 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:53:12pm

re: #374 Lidane

I can't wait to see the head explosions on the right if the current polls hold and Obama wins a second term. So many people will be shocked that they were so wrong. Then they'll blame Americans for being too stupid to see the truth about Obama and blame Romney for not being conservative enough.

They'll blame "THE MEDIA" first and foremost, as always.

Then they'll deploy the same argument they deployed after McCain lost in 2008. According to them, The American Voter™ is desperately clamoring for a True Conservative™ candidate. McCain was far more conservative than Obama, but because McCain wasn't a True Conservative™, The American Voter™ chose the far less conservative candidate, because that'll teach them.

391 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:53:22pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

Thanks, sort of, I think, maybe,
/ not sure if compliment.

No sarc intended.

392 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:53:32pm

re: #384 dragonath

Wait, Nimoy funds art house theatres?

cool

[Link: cinematreasures.org...]

393 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:54:08pm

Long story short: It's not unreasonable to not like the whitehouse request to youtube. Is it the most outrageously outrageous thing to happen today? Of course not but you should understand that not everybody likes the whitehouse requesting reviews of videos posted n the internet that do not break the law. I understand that people have different ideas of free speech and the meaning of censorship and it's not like I'm going to run off and vote for Mitt but it's important to understand that not everybody is going to agree with you all of the time. It's an unreasonable expectation.

394 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:54:42pm

re: #383 Charles Johnson

Sometime today when I wasn't paying attention, I crossed the 5,000 Twitter followers barrier.

If my Twitter experience scales proportionately and maps onto yours, about 2000 of your followers are spambots.

//

395 researchok  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:54:49pm

re: #389 Charles Johnson

If this were a Michael Moore movie, you'd be getting a shotgun.

396 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:55:04pm

re: #387 engineer cat

it's back? really? wasn't the building eradicated?

Think they physically merged it with the Symphony Space, saving the weird 'roller coaster' seating plan.

397 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:58:16pm

re: #394 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

If my Twitter experience scales proportionately and maps onto yours, about 2000 of your followers are spambots.

//

Nope! I checked with a new service that's no longer public when they first launched, and only about 2% of my followers were bots.

398 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:59:42pm

re: #396 Decatur Deb

Think they physically merged it with the Symphony Space, saving the weird 'roller coaster' seating plan.

an image of the old thalia as i remember it...

399 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 6:59:52pm

Corsi's been saying that Obama is a secret gay lately???

400 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:00:27pm

Its officially hot as fuck. When I went home to take my kid to her doctor, it was 110 out.

401 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:01:03pm

re: #399 Mocking Jay

Corsi's been saying that Obama is a secret gay lately???

Gay Kenyan Muslim Socialists are notoriously dangerous.

402 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:02:18pm

re: #400 Kragar

Its officially hot as fuck. When I went home to take my kid to her doctor, it was 110 out.

Damn.
It's nice here. Like in the 60s nice.

404 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:03:45pm

re: #402 Varek Raith

Damn.
It's nice here. Like in the 60s nice.

7pm here, its still 105 outside.

405 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:03:47pm

re: #358 Charles Johnson

I have some pretty large differences of opinion with KT these days, but I'd never lump him in with those hateful cretins.

Never.

406 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:03:49pm

...

407 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:04:37pm

re: #404 Kragar

7pm here, its still 105 outside.

63.

408 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:05:10pm

re: #398 engineer cat

an image of the old thalia as i remember it...

Oh yeah. Hung there (with gaps) from '62-'68.

409 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:05:25pm

How A Bunch Of Republicans Accidentally Voted To End Welfare-To-Work Requirements

There’s little Republicans love more these days than falsely attacking President Obama for stripping work requirements out of welfare.

But in their zeal to slash and de-federalize safety net programs, they’ve advanced legislation that would do exactly that.

The bill — sponsored by Reps. Virginia Foxx (R-NC), Joseph J. Heck, (R-NV), and Buck McKeon (R-CA) and called the Workforce Investment Improvement Act — would allow states to lump moneys from state-federal employment and training programs, including Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, into a single fund. But by doing so, it could essentially nullify federal eligibility requirements for those programs, according to the Congressional Research Service, the nonpartisan analysis arm of Congress which reviewed the bill.

It’s ideologically consistent with other piecemeal GOP efforts to roll back and privatize federal support programs, and/or devolves them to the states. As such it would empower state and local workforce boards, and increase employers’ influence on those boards. But it goes farther than anything President Obama has done to TANF, which been accused — inaccurately — of eliminating welfare-to-work requirements.

“I don’t think the TANF work requirements were what they had in mind when they were working on the Foxx bill,” says Elizabeth Lower-Basch of the Center for Law and Social Policy. “But it is sort of a collateral consequence.”

410 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:05:27pm

re: #406 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

You had an extra < in that post. Fixed it.

411 engineer cat  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:05:40pm

re: #388 researchok

Before my time but I do recall visiting the UWS during 'gentrification' wars.

when i was a kid in the 60s it belonged to us cuz nobody respectable wanted to live there unless they were studying or teaching at julliard, columbia, etc, etc

now the yuppies (i want to call them "juppies" the way it would sound puerto rican style) look at me like i was an intruder

412 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:06:39pm
413 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:07:02pm

re: #406 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Hmm, odd.
Let's try this again...

re: #399 Mocking Jay

Corsi's been saying that Obama is a secret gay lately???

Tea Party: Has Obama Been Hiding He’s Gay And Was Married To A Man?

Ed Brayton said it well:

Look, it should be obvious by now. Barack Obama was created in a laboratory that was funded by George Soros. It’s a little known fact — suppressed by the liberal media, of course — that Soros had secret labs built in the bunker where Hitler died and in Lenin’s tomb, where they mixed the sperm of Saul Alinsky, William Ayres and Malcolm X to fertilize an ovum harvested from a descendant of Margaret Sanger to create Obama. They implanted a chip in his brain to control his thoughts, forcing him to restart the Third Reich by first making sure everyone has access to health care.

414 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:07:18pm

re: #411 engineer cat

when i was a kid in the 60s it belonged to us cuz nobody respectable wanted to live there unless they were studying or teaching at julliard, columbia, etc, etc

now the yuppies (i want to call them "juppies" the way it would sound puerto rican style) look at me like i was an intruder

75th St was our first apartment together. Couldn't afford it then, couldn't afford it now.

415 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:07:40pm

re: #359 sagehen

You two just stop it. Jealous/

416 researchok  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:07:47pm

re: #411 engineer cat

I did live in city for a couple of years- West End and 81st,

One block from H&H and Zabars.

My world went from black and white to color

417 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:09:32pm

Gary Bauer: Obama’s Votes Come From Welfare Checks And Voter Fraud

Conservative pundit Gary Bauer, the former president of the Family Research Council, which puts on the Values Voter Summit each year, told the crowd at the 2012 conference Friday that it needs to turn out in great numbers to defeat President Obama’s army of welfare recipients and fraudulent votes.

After his speech, Bauer told TPM “voter fraud is rampant in urban areas” and he expected that to help Obama.

Bauer also told TPM that “there are a lot of people who will vote this November because they depend on government largesse,” meaning checks from Washington. He expects those voters to go Obama as well.

“They will vote for their own perceived interests, which is they don’t want anybody cutting back the size of the checks,” Bauer said.

418 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:10:57pm

PLEASE tell me we had a flounce? I can't catch up, every peep I know has decided to use the telephone this evening.

419 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:11:41pm

re: #413 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

I feel like I've already read this but it's so ludicrous that my mind tossed it out...

420 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:13:40pm

re: #404 Kragar

7pm here, its still 105 outside.

9:12 PM & 46 degrees. F, that is, not C yet. Though give the TP/GOP time...

421 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:14:10pm

WND in action...

422 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:15:02pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

Thanks, sort of, I think, maybe,
/ not sure if compliment.

martyr troll. lucky us.

423 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:15:18pm

Gorgeous 70° here in NY.

424 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:17:34pm

If this weather keeps up, I may have to cancel my game Sunday. I don't want to risk my gear to the heat.

425 Varek Raith  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:18:43pm

re: #423 Mocking Jay

Gorgeous 70° here in NY.

Toys != Gear.
/

426 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:19:39pm

The Grand Wazir of Islam addressed the FRC mob today.

Kamal Saleem tells Values Voter Summit that Clinton plans to 'Shut Down' Churches, College Professors work with Terrorists

We have been covering the absurd, bizarre and paranoid rantings of phony ex-terrorist Kamal Saleem as he emerged on the Religious Right scene, and today he had his biggest platform yet at the Values Voter Summit, where he was preceded by Ohio congressman Jim Jordan and a video message by Mitt Romney. Saleem told conference goers his made-up story about his time as a terrorist working for Lebanon, Syria, the PLO, Libya, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and even Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, until he moved to the U.S. to wage "cultural jihad." He claimed he and his fellow terrorists "met the professors" at American universities and colleges, which "were our playgrounds," in order to help "the professors to establish new curriculum purposefully" to brainwash students to change "your children to hit your nation with everything they've got."

Later, Saleem said Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is working with Islamic countries to eviscerate the Constitution and "subjugate American people to be arrested and put to jail and their churches and synagogues shut down," which he says will happen early next year!

427 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:19:41pm

Morans!

428 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:20:25pm

re: #266 Charles Johnson

How is YouTube a "controlling body?" It's a private company, and there are many alternative ways to publish video on the Internet. It's simply not possible for YouTube to "censor" anything.

Because shut up, that's why.
/

429 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:21:18pm

re: #425 Varek Raith

Toys != Gear.
/

If guys playing a kid's game can be referred to as professionals, then I can call my war gaming stuff gear.

430 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:21:21pm

re: #389 Charles Johnson

Wouldn't that be nice? But I'll take the genuine leather wallet instead.

Pssst, it's pleather!

431 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:21:32pm

I love that RWNJ doesn't need to be translated.

432 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:22:06pm
433 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:22:18pm

re: #431 Stanley Sea

I love that RWNJ doesn't need to be translated.

Or, I'm depressed. Afterthought.

434 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:22:25pm

re: #418 Stanley Sea

PLEASE tell me we had a flounce? I can't catch up, every peep I know has decided to use the telephone this evening.

LOL! One ringy dingy....
*waves*

435 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:23:50pm

re: #434 Dancing along the light of day

LOL! One ringy dingy....
*waves*

Hey Girl! I spoke to a friend for 1:40. Thought I was gonna die! But it was good.

436 Kragar  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:24:29pm

Poll Finds Obama Is Erasing Romney’s Edge on Economy

President Obama has taken away Mitt Romney’s longstanding advantage as the candidate voters say is most likely to restore the economy and create jobs, according to the latest poll by The New York Times and CBS News, which found a modest sense of optimism among Americans that White House policies are working.

But while the climate for Mr. Obama has improved since midsummer, and Mr. Romney has failed to shift sentiment decisively in his favor, the poll found that the presidential race is narrowly divided. The outcome could still turn on unexpected events and how the candidates are perceived after their three debates next month.

437 andres  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:27:49pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

I don't think it was appropriate for them to even ask for a review.

Actually, I think it was appropriate to ask for a review, nothing more and accept the conclusion the Youtube team reached.

Checks and Balances.

438 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:33:29pm

Be careful of basing your conclusion based on the reaction of militant thugs. This is not a free speech case. It's far more complex and dynamic than that. It is also not a clear cut case of blasphemy since it includes the political dynamics of long standing US foreign policy in which we these events take place time and time again. One such case was the accidental burning of Korans by US forces in Afghanistan. Most of these protests are well organized by militant factions in the Middle East. In the case of Egypt it is very likely that some secular individuals took part just to "get back at America."

439 sagehen  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:34:11pm

re: #414 Decatur Deb

75th St was our first apartment together. Couldn't afford it then, couldn't afford it now.

the only reason I can afford it is because SOCIALIZM YAY!! My grandparents got the apartment during redevelopment on some special subsidized seniors deal (the Railyards and port were retired, Lincoln Center was part of the plan)... for my college graduation present the GPs added my name to their rent-stabilized lease. A year later they moved to Cali, a year after that the building went co-op and my insider price was 2/3 market value with a special low-interest mortgage financed by the building's previous owner (the MacArthur Foundation).

440 Gus  Fri, Sep 14, 2012 7:42:39pm

Boom!

441 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Sep 15, 2012 12:13:02am

re: #322 Charles Johnson

I don't understand - on the one hand you're arguing that pulling the video from YouTube would involve this:

But on the other hand, you're arguing that the video can't be censored because it's already all over the place, which is of course exactly the point I'm making.

Which is it? Censorship? Or not censorship?

It's whatever he wants to be when he says it at that time. He's in the Mitt Zone.


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