Pew Poll: Romney’s Middle East Comments Were a Disaster

Romney missed an opportunity to look Presidential, and instead did himself serious damage
Politics • Views: 25,641

Wow. It was pretty obvious Mitt Romney really shot himself in the foot when he crassly exploited the deaths of American diplomatic personnel overseas to attack President Obama, but the new survey from Pew Research really drives this point home: Middle East Turmoil Closely Followed; Romney’s Comments Viewed Negatively.

In his rush to parrot the wingnut talking point that Obama “apologizes for America,” Mitt Romney may have truly sunk his campaign.

About four-in-ten Americans (43%) have followed news about the attacks on U.S. embassies in the Middle East and the killing of an American ambassador very closely, making it by far the most closely followed foreign news story of the year.

Those who have followed this story have much more positive opinions about Barack Obama’s handling of the situation than Mitt Romney’s comments on the crisis. Nearly half (45%) approve of Obama’s handling of the recent attacks on U.S. embassies and the killing of the U.S. ambassador in Libya; 36% disapprove of Obama’s handling of this situation.

In contrast, only about a quarter (26%) of those who have tracked news on turmoil in the Middle East approve of Romney’s comments on the situation; nearly half (48%) disapprove.

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248 comments
1 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:09:26pm

So what if Romney's comments were insensitive, they were right! Obama's foreign policy is a failure and we shouldn't be silent about that in order to be PC! Muslims hate us, they've declared war on us, and we should respond in kind! Nobama!!!!1111

2 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:12:24pm

"FOREIGN POLICY IS A DISTRACTION!" - Romney Campaign, Sept 11, 2012

3 Bulworth  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:13:24pm

Doesn't matter, we're retooling now, new message. Victory is in sight. All our base is belongs to us.

4 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:13:56pm

But but they're focused on the economy.

5 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:14:05pm

This is why the Romney campaign has been floundering for the past week. Their own polling must have shown them how disastrous Romney's comments were, right after he made them.

6 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:14:44pm

President Obama just is presidential. Mitt Romney's still looking for opportunities to look presidential, and missing them right and left.

I think Romney might be better off if he just stuck with shouting the N-word every time he's asked about President Obama.

7 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:14:52pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

This is why the Romney campaign has been floundering for the past week. Their own polling must have shown them how disastrous Romney's comments were, right after he made them.

But he's gonna double down, because the wingnuts are loving it. They think they can win on this, that they can prove to folks that Obama's a "failure" because he didn't undo decades of anti-American sentiment in 4 years.

8 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:15:05pm

I guess questions on foreign policy are going back to "distraction" status.

9 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:17:04pm

re: #7 Targetpractice

They think they can win on this, that they can prove to folks that Obama's a "failure" because he didn't undo decades of anti-American sentiment in 4 years.

They also think they can win on the economy by arguing that Obama's a failure because he hasn't cleaned up the mess they left in four years.

It's like the GOP forgot all the lessons of the Kerry campaign. Running against the incumbent isn't enough. You have to make a solid case for your own guy too, and so far they've totally failed at it.

10 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:18:05pm

Foreign Policy...

Image: romneySmirk.jpg

"Nailed it."

11 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:18:27pm

By the way, these new reports confirm: the Libyans that the right wing blogosphere claimed were "dragging Ambassador Stevens' body through the streets like Somalia" were actually trying to save his life.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

12 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:19:49pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

By the way, these new reports confirm: the Libyans that the right wing blogosphere claimed were "dragging Ambassador Stevens' body through the streets like Somalia" were actually trying to save his life.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

It was so much easier to paint them all as anti-American monsters. I've honestly been really touched reading about the Libyan people's reaction to this tragedy.

13 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:20:10pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

By the way, these new reports confirm: the Libyans that the right wing blogosphere claimed were "dragging Ambassador Stevens' body through the streets like Somalia" were actually trying to save his life.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

So you're saying Dim Jim Hoft's reports of the crowd raping the Ambassador may not have been entirely truthful?
///

14 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:20:21pm

I have to keep reminding myself that, as bad as Romney looks to me, this election isn't in the bag. Nate Silver gives him about 1 chance in four of winning, and that is a long way from zero chance.

15 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:20:30pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

By the way, these new reports confirm: the Libyans that the right wing blogosphere claimed were "dragging Ambassador Stevens' body through the streets like Somalia" were actually trying to save his life.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Yeah, I've noticed that every accusation so far against Obama has fallen flat when held under a microscope. Like the "warnings" that amounted to little more than the locals in Libya and Egypt saying that there was unrest and it might erupt "soon."

16 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:20:37pm

I hope Romney does some ad libbing at the National Hispanic Chamber of Commerce today. He's so good at it.

Youtube Video
17 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:20:53pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

This is why the Romney campaign has been floundering for the past week. Their own polling must have shown them how disastrous Romney's comments were, right after he made them.

For grins and giggles, I went to linkedin to see if his people were updating their profiles...but he's made two new important hires.

From golf club server to treasury intern...

18 Bulworth  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:20:59pm

re: #4 HappyWarrior

But but they're focused on the economy.

Or the culture war. Whatever. Believe in America! /

19 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:21:06pm

I'm going to call "bullshit!" on this poll. It weighted Democrats higher than Republicans by 50 people out of 1000 and independents higher by 39 people out of 1000. It was also 'all adults', instead of 'likely voters'.

Moreover, it's "randomization" in terms of landlines was inherently problematic:

Respondents in the landline sample were selected by randomly asking for the youngest adult male or female who is now at home.

(Bolding mine)

Asking for the youngest person will tend to skew the results to the left.

20 Sionainn  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:21:55pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

This is why the Romney campaign has been floundering for the past week. Their own polling must have shown them how disastrous Romney's comments were, right after he made them.

It makes me wonder if the pollster who called my home last night was doing internal polling for a specific campaign. They were getting background info from me (age, race, etc.) and then asked me if I had a political blog and/or posted regularly on political blogs. When I answered yes, they thanked me kindly and hung up.

21 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:22:21pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, right. Pew Research is known for publishing "bullshit" surveys.

Snort.

22 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:22:25pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Whatever you have to tell yourself to believe that Romney didn't fuck up his own campaign.

23 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:22:37pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to call "bullshit!" on this poll. It weighted Democrats higher than Republicans by 50 people out of 1000 and independents higher by 39 peopel out of 1000. It was also 'all adults', instead of 'likely voters'.

Moreover, it's "randomization" in terms of landlines was inherently problematic:

(Bolding mine)

Asking for the youngest person will tend to skew the results to the left.

So those 50 extra Democrats out of 1000 people accounted for a 20% difference in approval/disapproval?

HACK HACK HACK.....sorry, I've got a bit of a cough. HACK HACK.

24 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:22:57pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

At least you put "bullshit!" in quotes. Add your own vote to the poll (make it 1001 respondents) and see how much the numbers change.

25 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:23:11pm

To be fair, Dark usually calls every poll bullshit, so its really pretty standard.

26 Winny Spencer  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:23:31pm

I think it's time for some to realize that Romney has already lost the election.

27 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:23:49pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Only a bare majority of even Republicans approved of Romney's comments, Dark.

Did you approve of his comments and handling of the situation?

28 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:24:18pm

re: #26 Winny Spencer

WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR?

29 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:24:40pm

re: #13 Kragar

So you're saying Dim Jim Hoft's reports of the crowd raping the Ambassador may not have been entirely truthful?
///

Sometimes their homo-erotic fantasies get a little too rambunctious and spill out into their daily interactions. Cut him a little slack, he will try to keep it in his pant ... mind next time.

30 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:25:18pm

Romney is addressing he Hispanic Chamber of Commerce in L.A., their reaction...polite applause.

31 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:25:42pm

re: #28 Kragar

WAS IT OVER WHEN THE GERMANS BOMBED PEARL HARBOR?

Germans?

32 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:25:59pm

re: #26 Winny Spencer

I think it's time for some to realize that Romney has already lost the election.

No, not a good idea at all. To win the Democrats have to keep working as hard as if they could lose, because if they don't they can.

33 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:26:04pm

And of course, as with every speech of Romney's it's busting truth-meters everywhere.

34 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:26:08pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

Germans?

You beat me to it. . .

35 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:26:30pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

Germans?

Forget it. He's rollin'.

36 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:26:38pm

re: #32 aagcobb

agreed, he may be losing but we need to work our tails off to bury him period.

37 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:26:42pm

re: #30 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Romney is addressing he Hispanic Chamber of Commerce in L.A., their reaction...polite applause.

Is anybody streaming it?

38 Jack Burton  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:26:42pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

Germans?

Forget it, he's rolling.

39 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:26:43pm

re: #22 Lidane

Whatever you have to tell yourself to believe that Romney didn't fuck up his own campaign.

And he would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for those pesky kidsvoters!
--every villain in Scooby-Doo

40 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:26:56pm

re: #32 aagcobb

No, not a good idea at all. To win the Democrats have to keep working as hard as if they could lose, because if they don't they can.

Amen

41 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:26:59pm

re: #30 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Romney is addressing he Hispanic Chamber of Commerce in L.A., their reaction...polite applause.

They were expecting Mexican Mitt Romney.

42 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:27:09pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

Germans?

Forget it, he's rolling.

43 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:27:18pm

re: #37 wrenchwench

i saw a bit of it on the stream for MSNBC i use.

44 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:27:19pm

re: #26 Winny Spencer

That is one smirky fucking avatar.

45 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:27:23pm

re: #27 Obdicut

That was not what I was saying. Please Confine any questions to the poll's methodology.

46 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:27:36pm

Romney’s New Hispanic Outreach Sounds A Lot Like Romney’s Old Hispanic Outreach

excerpts of his remarks released Sunday night reveal that Romney’s new groove on Hispanic outreach sounds a lot like his old one. And that means no specifics on immigration reform — instead, Romney will continue pitching Hispanic voters by talking about unemployment.

This is essentially all Hispanics have heard from Romney for months. Polls have shown the strategy hasn’t worked — Romney trails Obama in the PollTracker Average of the Latino electorate polls by a margin of 64.1 percent to 28.9 percent, a gap that’s remained fairly steady throughout the summer.

47 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:27:39pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

By the way, these new reports confirm: the Libyans that the right wing blogosphere claimed were "dragging Ambassador Stevens' body through the streets like Somalia" were actually trying to save his life.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

That means nothing, cannot even be perceived, on today's Red state and Freep.

48 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:27:41pm

re: #32 aagcobb

No, not a good idea at all. To win the Democrats have to keep working as hard as if they could lose, because if they don't they can.

Exactly. It's not over until November despite all of Romney HQ's fuck ups.

The Obama campaign is right in reinforcing the GOTV and voter registration efforts at every turn, and they're right in not letting up at all. They can't get complacent even if Mittens is doing everything he can to lose.

49 gwangung  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:27:46pm

re: #30 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Romney is addressing he Hispanic Chamber of Commerce in L.A., their reaction...polite applause.

You'd have to think that was a home run for Romney. Any time he doesn't stuff his foot down his throat is a win for him...

50 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:28:32pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

That was not what I was saying. Please Confine any questions to the poll's methodology.

I'll take that as a 'yes.'

51 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:28:45pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

That was not what I was saying. Please Confine any questions to the poll's methodology.

I am confused- I thought he was questioning your questioning of methodology. . .and you are not answering the question

52 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:29:27pm

re: #30 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Romney is addressing he Hispanic Chamber of Commerce in L.A., their reaction...polite applause.

CoC is the most conservative group you'll find in any community.

53 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:30:23pm

A good article about the embassy protests and blasphemy from CSM
Time to argue for Islam's humane view of blasphemy

Violent protests over the video that insults the prophet Muhammad highlight a fundamentalist view of blasphemy. But this interpretation relies on only a handful of sources and ignores Islamic authorities with a far more humane view. Muslims should rediscover these Islamic thinkers.

....

Fundamentalists have succeeded in presenting their version of blasphemy law as official Islam. Now is the time to change this view with a persuasiveness that can be found in Islam itself.

That will not be easy. The widespread acceptance of the fundamentalist view is visible on the streets and in the media. On Sept. 13 the al-Wakeel News website featured an interview with ordinary Jordanians about “The Innocence of Muslims.” Several opined that Islam demands the execution of those who insult the prophet. A day earlier, a Muslim religious scholar posted the same argument on the organization’s website with citations from two authoritative sources.

A quick and brutal response to blasphemy that leaves no room for any type of mitigation developed relatively late in Islamic thought – the 12th century rather than the 7th century, in which Islam emerged.
....
The idea that non-Muslims can and will say offensive things about Muhammad that should simply be ignored is no less an authentically Muslim idea than fundamentalists’ militant interpretation. By rediscovering Islamic thinkers like Tabari, who lived at the height of Islam’s strength and self-confidence, or Ibn ‘Abidin, who did not, Muslims can respond to inflammatory propaganda while wresting from fundamentalists the very terms of the debate.

54 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:30:39pm

re: #36 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

agreed, he may be losing but we need to work our tails off to bury him period.

Absolutely. We must compensate for voter suppression, massive advertising buys, and religion-driven anti-gay/woman inroads in our own base. I plan to fight like a cornered rat.

55 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:31:21pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

That was not what I was saying. Please Confine any questions to the poll's methodology.

Nope. The sampling of Democrats and independents is within the margin of error for signups at the moment, so that's bullshit on your part. Asking for the youngest I assume has some sort of statistical purpose to avoid oversampling the older, which you haven't even considered.

Mainly, I'm pointing out that I don't think you support Romney's comments, i think you're embarrassed as fuck by what a total hash he made of this, but that you're rejecting a poll showing other people think the same way because of nitpicky statistical crap that you know is half-hearted.

56 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:31:54pm

re: #54 Decatur Deb

Absolutely. We must compensate for voter suppression, massive advertising buys, and religion-driven anti-gay/woman inroads in our own base. I plan to fight like a cornered rat.

Good on you

57 blueraven  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:32:11pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to call "bullshit!" on this poll. It weighted Democrats higher than Republicans by 50 people out of 1000 and independents higher by 39 people out of 1000. It was also 'all adults', instead of 'likely voters'.

Moreover, it's "randomization" in terms of landlines was inherently problematic:

(Bolding mine)

Asking for the youngest person will tend to skew the results to the left.

What about this poll?

[Link: www.monmouth.edu...]

Fully 9-in-10 likely voters have heard about the recent violence and protests at U.S. embassies in
Africa and the Middle East, including 61% who have heard a lot about this and 29% who have heard a little. When asked about the two presidential contenders’ public response to the situation, 39% of likely voters approve of how Obama has handled the situation to 27% who disapprove, with the remainder being unaware of the president’s response. Opinion is more divided on how Mitt Romney has dealt with the situation – just 25% of likely voters approve of the GOP nominee’s response to 29% who disapprove.
The poll also found that a majority (51%) of likely voters trust Obama more than Romney (42%) to handle the nation’s foreign policy.

58 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:32:59pm

Politifact - Romney says he has 5 studies that conclude his tax plan could work without raising taxes on the middle class. Rating: Mostly False.

The problem?

Of those 5 "studies"......two are actually Wall Street Journal Editorials, and one "study" was written by one of his campaign advisers.

59 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:33:31pm

Dog-whistle? More like air horn:

Desperate smirking panderer is desperate.

60 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:33:33pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

A good article about the embassy protests and blasphemy from CSM
Time to argue for Islam's humane view of blasphemy

....

It's a pretty idea, but it won't work unless you can find Muslims to articulate it and other Muslims to protect them from the Islamists.

61 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:33:48pm

re: #58 JamesWI

Politifact - Romney says he has 5 studies that conclude his tax plan could work without raising taxes on the middle class. Rating: Mostly False.

The problem?

Of those 5 "studies"......two are actually Wall Street Journal Editorials, and one "study" was written by one of his campaign advisers.

That Detail Devil rising. . .

62 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:34:44pm

re: #59 Interesting Times

Dog-whistle? More like air horn:

[Embedded content]

Desperate smirking panderer is desperate.

And Mitt was dependent on the same government he now wails on for his business ventures. And fuck him for that pathetic whistle.

63 nines09  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:35:56pm

re: #59 Interesting Times

Dog-whistle? More like air horn:

[Embedded content]

Desperate smirking panderer is desperate.

Can't get clearer than that. I'm a leech.

64 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:36:04pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

It's a pretty idea, but it won't work unless you can find Muslims to articulate it and other Muslims to protect them from the Islamists.

Agreed, It won't work, there's just not enough support for the idea. However, If Islam does undergo a reformation (which it probably will eventually) there is already the framework in place to be more tolerant of free speech.

65 researchok  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:36:21pm

I thought this was an interesting paragraph:

Romney gets higher marks among those who have followed Middle East events very closely than among those who followed them less closely. Even among this group, however, more disapprove (49%) than approve (34%) of his comments on the situation.

Romney had the numbers going into the vent but instead of playing to his strengths he doubled down by appealing to a narrow portion of his base by attacking Obama.

All he had to do was shut up an dhe's still have come out ahead.

66 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:37:50pm

re: #62 HappyWarrior

And Mitt was dependent on the same government he now wails on for his business ventures. And fuck him for that pathetic whistle.

Sputter sputter. . .but he used that support to make money. . .to take better care of his cars and such. . .it was, you know, a reward for his awesomeness ////

67 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:38:07pm

re: #65 researchok

I thought this was an interesting paragraph:

Romney had the numbers going into the vent but instead of playing to his strengths he doubled down by appealing to a narrow portion of his base by attacking Obama.

All he had to do was shut up an dhe's still have come out ahead.

Exactly. He could have kept quiet or followed in Reagan's example and simply voiced his support for Obama, and come off looking far better than he has. As is, he's got the wingnuts now scrambling to make something of this dog's breakfast and utterly failing.

68 blueraven  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:38:22pm

re: #65 researchok

I thought this was an interesting paragraph:

Romney had the numbers going into the vent but instead of playing to his strengths he doubled down by appealing to a narrow portion of his base by attacking Obama.

All he had to do was shut up an dhe's still have come out ahead.

Which displays either extreme ignorance or craven politics.

We report, you decide.

69 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:39:17pm

I wonder how oversampling of Democrats or undersampling of Republicans somehow affects Democrat-only or Republican-only approval percentages.

Wait, I don't wonder that, because that's utterly moronic.

70 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:39:50pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

That was not what I was saying. Please Confine any questions to the poll's methodology.

Did you approve of Mitt's comments on the situation?

71 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:40:16pm

re: #66 DisturbedEma

Sputter sputter. . .but he used that support to make money. . .to take better care of his cars and such. . .it was, you know, a reward for his awesomeness ////

Ha yep. Seriously, he keeps on riding on this pathetic notion that people are only supporting Obama over him because they want free stuff. Yeah it can't be because Mitt's ideas suck to some people and Obama's appealing. Nope we're just a bunch of government freeloaders even though as said Mitt has no problem using that same government to benefit himself and his family. Stupid jerk.

72 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:40:24pm

re: #59 Interesting Times

Dog-whistle? More like air horn:

[Embedded content]

Desperate smirking panderer is desperate.

Talking about government dependency is now a "dog whistle"? Consider me not surprised.

73 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:40:55pm

re: #65 researchok

Romney had the numbers going into the vent but instead of playing to his strengths he doubled down by appealing to a narrow portion of his base by attacking Obama.

All he had to do was shut up an dhe's still have come out ahead.

I don;t know about that. With recent developments, attacks on embassies, killing the ambassador in Libya people might tend to rally around the President. After 9-11 Dubbya's approval ratings were through the roof. Mitt certainly didn;t help himself with his comments but he might have taken a hit in the ratings anyways.

74 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:41:27pm
Republican standard-bearer Gov. Willard "Mitt" Romney has released a new Spanish-language TV commercial. If you don't hablar, we've prepared an English-subtitled/captioned version for your enlightenment.
Youtube Video
75 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:41:39pm
76 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:41:47pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Talking about government dependency is now a "dog whistle"? Consider me not surprised.

No, I don't suppose you are.

77 gwangung  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:42:19pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Talking about government dependency is now a "dog whistle"?

Yeah, pretty much. Straight line descent from young bucks buying T-bone steaks and Cadillac welfare queens.

Context.

78 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:42:39pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Talking about government dependency is now a "dog whistle"? Consider me not surprised.

Bwahaha, you expect me to take seriously something written by doughy pantload "durr hurr, Hitler was a librul" Jonah Goldberg? And in the "we're not racist, but we publish them until we get caught" National Review? FAIL.

79 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:42:50pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Talking about government dependency is now a "dog whistle"? Consider me not surprised.

Claiming that people only support your opponent because they're dependent on government and "feel entitled to health care and housing" sure as hell is. Sure, it's not the welfare queen but it's a whistle at those who believe that people only support Democratic candidates because "they want free stuff." Has it occurred to Mitt Romney that this is ideological to many of us? I'm an American liberal who even if I were wealthy would not support Mr. Romney. And Jonah Goldberg? The guy who calls American liberals, Nazis? Come on man.

80 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:42:51pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Talking about government dependency is now a "dog whistle"? Consider me not surprised.

I wish we could get this "National Review" feller to post here, considering how often you link to him.

81 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:42:57pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Talking about government dependency is now a "dog whistle"? Consider me not surprised.

And with no sense of irony, you link to National Review, a site that thrives on dog whistles.

82 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:43:28pm

re: #81 JamesWI

And with no sense of irony, you link to National Review, a site that thrives on dog whistles.

And multiple crappy pop-up ads.

83 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:43:58pm

re: #58 JamesWI

Politifact - Romney says he has 5 studies that conclude his tax plan could work without raising taxes on the middle class. Rating: Mostly False.

The problem?

Of those 5 "studies"......two are actually Wall Street Journal Editorials, and one "study" was written by one of his campaign advisers.

I love how they rate that "mostly false" too. The statement is flat out false, he doesn't have 5 studies, doesn't know what constitutes a study, but they're going to give him partial credit for failing to meet a simple standard he set himself. The whole factchecking thing has become a joke where media outlets ignore nuance where it's relevant, introduce it where it's not and judge their own inferences instead of the actual stated or implied claim.

84 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:44:01pm

re: #81 JamesWI

And with no sense of irony, you link to National Review, a site that thrives on dog whistles.

Those aren't dog whistles NR has. Those are dog sirens.

85 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:44:02pm
86 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:44:11pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Talking about government dependency is now a "dog whistle"? Consider me not surprised.

Quoting a writer for a magazine that has had to fire not one, but TWO white nationalists this year might not be the best rebuttal to "dog whistle" charges.

87 researchok  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:44:29pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

Exactly. He could have kept quiet or followed in Reagan's example and simply voiced his support for Obama, and come off looking far better than he has. As is, he's got the wingnuts now scrambling to make something of this dog's breakfast and utterly failing.

All kidding aside, his response really was an example of 'leading from behind'.

He's clearly on the defensive and is acting accordingly.

Which is too bad.

Look, we need a strong adversarial type of politics. That very good for the nation, politics aside.

Romney is more concerned with his campaign rather than good politics or good governance.

88 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:44:30pm

re: #74 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

That deserved a big call-out.

89 abolitionist  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:44:44pm

re: #20 Sionainn

It makes me wonder if the pollster who called my home last night was doing internal polling for a specific campaign. They were getting background info from me (age, race, etc.) and then asked me if I had a political blog and/or posted regularly on political blogs. When I answered yes, they thanked me kindly and hung up.

The last time I consented to a phone poll, the caller assured me there would be just four questions. Immediately after I answered the first one, he hung up.

90 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:45:42pm

re: #77 gwangung

Yeah, pretty much. Straight line descent from young bucks buying T-bone steaks and Cadillac welfare queens.

Context.

And how would you point out that policies that foster dependance on government also create their own constituencies without a 'dog whistle'?

91 dragonfire1981  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:46:00pm

The Romney Campaign does it again.

92 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:46:13pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Talking about government dependency is now a "dog whistle"? Consider me not surprised.

And I thought I was the jaded one- in my understanding, the use of the term dog whistle is very fitting- only people willing to forgo common sense and logic can respond and support his positions about what the government is actually supposed to do, what exactly is your problem with the term? Do you disagree?

93 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:46:49pm

re: #82 darthstar

And multiple crappy pop-up ads.

How many "free" books did you get offered?

94 researchok  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:47:05pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Too true- but his bad choice only exacerbated the problem.

When I said, say nothing, I meant nothing negative.

'We stand as Americans, united against terror and we will support our leaders in the prosecution of those who did this dastardly deed..."

That's what Isaid earlier this week, I should have repeated it here and now.

95 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:47:23pm

re: #91 dragonfire1981

The Romney Campaign does it again.

Romney: Believe in America (That's Made in China)

96 blueraven  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:48:13pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

And how would you point out that policies that foster dependance on government also create their own constituencies without a 'dog whistle'?

You could mention Exxon, GE etc...

97 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:48:23pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

And how would you point out that policies that foster dependance on government also create their own constituencies without a 'dog whistle'?

I wouldn't put it in terms of Obama supporters, since, for example, seniors-- who support Romney more than Obama-- are dependent on the government.

So, by falsely making the association with Obama supporters, Romney is blowing a very well-worn dog whistle.

98 researchok  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:48:27pm

re: #87 researchok

And I say that as someone center/center right.

99 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:49:06pm

re: #95 Targetpractice

Romney: Believe in America (That's Made in China)

I believe Romney will stand up to China...

..and offer them his chair.

100 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:49:15pm

re: #95 Targetpractice

Romney: Believe in America (That's Made in China)

Ooops. . .

101 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:49:44pm

Well, that was environmentally responsible of him...

102 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:49:49pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

And how would you point out that policies that foster dependance on government also create their own constituencies without a 'dog whistle'?

He wasn't talking about policy. He was talking about his opponent's base. And he has no room to talk about "dependency" on government when it's thanks to the same government he bitches non-stop about that he was able to get the funding for the Olympic Games that he now brags about as an accomplishment of his.

103 gwangung  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:50:42pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

And how would you point out that policies that foster dependance on government also create their own constituencies without a 'dog whistle'?

First, you have to demonstrate that these particular policies create dependencies. You cannot just assert they do.

Second, you have to demonstrate the difference between these policies and other policies that create dependencies, such as farm subsidies and corporate tax breaks, and show that they are worse (for example, if corporate level policies cost the nation two to three times as much money for the same level of "harm", then the attention is misplaced).

Simply stated, you need to show your work.

104 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:51:08pm

If any source deserves to be put on the "invalid" list, it's National Review. I'm frankly amazed that there hasn't been more fallout from their long-running associations with blatant, self-avowed white nationalists.

105 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:51:57pm

re: #86 Charles Johnson

Then I shall refer you to this article or this other one (the second article deals less with race than with the issues of the Upper West side of Manhattan).

106 TedStriker  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:52:13pm

re: #6 darthstar

President Obama just is presidential. Mitt Romney's still looking for opportunities to look presidential, and missing them right and left.

I think Romney might be better off if he just stuck with shouting the N-word every time he's asked about President Obama.

Nah, Mitt's had more than a couple of opportunities to look presidential, but it's almost as though he's just saying, "Damn the torpedoes, full DERP ahead!"

107 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:52:15pm

re: #101 darthstar

Well, that was environmentally responsible of him...

[Embedded content]

While he may not be interested in the oceans and you know, that climate stuff, he WILL recycle words that have already served him so well. . .oh wait. . .

108 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:52:30pm

Really, we're all dependent on the government. I'm dependent on the government to ensure food and water safety so that I don't die from some damn infection, dependent on the cops to keep criminals frrom fucking up my Christmas, dependent on the courts to safeguard my civil rights.

We all are, and anyone who thinks that they're not dependent on the government or that we shouldn't have to depend on the government is really, at heart, an anarchist.

109 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:54:23pm

re: #108 Obdicut

Really, we're all dependent on the government. I'm dependent on the government to ensure food and water safety so that I don't die from some damn infection, dependent on the cops to keep criminals frrom fucking up my Christmas, dependent on the courts to safeguard my civil rights.

We all are, and anyone who thinks that they're not dependent on the government or that we shouldn't have to depend on the government is really, at heart, an anarchist.

Or lying to themselves.

110 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:54:58pm

Paul Weyrich - co-founder of ALEC in 1980.

Youtube Video
111 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:56:27pm

re: #109 Targetpractice

Or lying to themselves.

Or feel entitled. My mom just got on Medicare- she feels entitled to it, in her mind she earned it. . .which makes her different from those you know, others on government programs. . .

112 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:56:32pm

re: #109 Targetpractice

Or lying to themselves.

Yep, really, it's easy to convince yourself like Mitt Romney has that his success and others like him success has been due to them and themselves alone but it really doesn't work like that.

113 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:57:32pm

re: #112 HappyWarrior

Yep, really, it's easy to convince yourself like Mitt Romney has that his success and others like him success has been due to them and themselves alone but it really doesn't work like that.

Surely you can't be saying they did not build it. . .//////

114 steve_davis  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:57:38pm

re: #61 DisturbedEma

That Detail Devil rising. . .

Yes, and yet those fine fellows rate it "mostly false," because in the world of sophistry, being 75% lie still means you must partly be telling the truth. Maybe these folks can take the LSAT sometime and learn that partly false is false, and partly true is false as well.

115 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:58:26pm

re: #109 Targetpractice

Or lying to themselves.

Or lying to other people because they're so fucking rich they believe they can do without the government so they propagandize voters to vote against their own interests. (I heard a speech by Steve Forbes yesterday...)

116 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:58:31pm

re: #59 publicityStunted

Dog-whistle? More like air horn:

[Embedded content]

Desperate smirking panderer is desperate.

Oh wait, I thought he meant corporations...
They're people too, you know.
//
And here I thought my ears were ringing cause I was sick.

117 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 12:58:45pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Then I shall refer you to this article or this other one (the second article deals less with race than with the issues of the Upper West side of Manhattan).

The first doesn't deal much with race either, Dark. And neither of them make the argument that Romney was making or support it in the least.

Do you understand what is being referenced?

Romney said this while talking to the NAACP:

"But I hope people understand this, your friends who like Obamacare, you remind them of this, if they want more stuff from government tell them to go vote for the other guy — more free stuff.

First of all, it's completely dishonest to represent Obamacare as 'free stuff', or to claim that those who like Obamacare want free stuff.

Second of all, he was talking to the NAACP when he said that. It was cowardly of him to say "your friends" rather than you, but that was still a direct assault-- it was saying that people who vote for Obama do so because they want free stuff. While he was at the NAACP. And knowing that 90%+ of the black population who voted did so for Obama.

118 A Mom Anon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:01:00pm

re: #96 blueraven

This is also assuming,wrongly,that anyone who is poor and on assistance actually is registered and votes. I was born and raised,and still have family in one of the poorest areas of the country and I know for a fact that most of the people there are more worried about feeding their families,keeping their kids away from the drug dealers and meth labs and just living hand to mouth than voting. There is a sense of hopelessness that no politician gives a shit,because they don't. They don't come to those parts of the country and they don't give two shits about those constituents. To flat out say that those"government checks" influence votes is evil and insulting.

Also,these morons have no idea how welfare even works. You can only get it for five years of your adult life total,you have to work at whatever shit job they make you take(even if it's an hour bus ride away and you have to pay a sitter out of that money),and it's not exactly "free money"no matter how you look at it. A single mom with 3 kids gets a whopping 280 dollars a month in food stamps and a small housing subsidy to pay the rent on a shitty apartment or house that's usually owned by a freaking slumlord. yeah,that's real high on the hog living.

119 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:01:59pm

re: #117 Obdicut

Is it any wonder that Romney's approval rating among African Americans is ZERO?

120 Sionainn  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:02:39pm

re: #113 DisturbedEma

Surely you can't be saying they did not build it. . .//////

;-)

U Didn't Build That by MC 'Bama

121 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:02:59pm

re: #117 Obdicut

The first doesn't deal much with race either, Dark. And neither of them make the argument that Romney was making or support it in the least.

Do you understand what is being referenced?

What is being referenced is this HuffPo piece and a Tweet about same.

122 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:03:01pm

re: #118 A Mom Anon

This is also assuming,wrongly,that anyone who is poor and on assistance actually is registered and votes. I was born and raised,and still have family in one of the poorest areas of the country and I know for a fact that most of the people there are more worried about feeding their families,keeping their kids away from the drug dealers and meth labs and just living hand to mouth than voting. There is a sense of hopelessness that no politician gives a shit,because they don't. They don't come to those parts of the country and they don't give two shits about those constituents. To flat out say that those"government checks" influence votes is evil and insulting.

Also,these morons have no idea how welfare even works. You can only get it for five years of your adult life total,you have to work at whatever shit job they make you take(even if it's an hour bus ride away and you have to pay a sitter out of that money),and it's not exactly "free money"no matter how you look at it. A single mom with 3 kids gets a whopping 280 dollars a month in food stamps and a small housing subsidy to pay the rent on a shitty apartment or house that's usually owned by a freaking slumlord. yeah,that's real high on the hog living.

They try to make it out like living on welfare is some awesome existence. It erally is not for the reasons you've pointed out. Mitt doesn't have a clue what he's talking about when he's talking about how the less fortunate live. Not a clue.

123 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:03:06pm

Dark, do you consider yourself to be dependent on the government or not?

124 RadicalModerate  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:03:28pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Then I shall refer you to this article or this other one (the second article deals less with race than with the issues of the Upper West side of Manhattan).

So, we go from the National Review to a couple written by the Manhattan Institute's publishing arm? Sorry, but having names like Bill Kristol and Theodore Dalrymple on the editorial staff really doesn't help your argument here.

Not to mention the fact that they base their welfare reform on the writings of Charles Murray - you know - the author of "The Bell Curve".
Not at all racist here.

125 kirkspencer  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:03:47pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Then I shall refer you to this article or this other one (the second article deals less with race than with the issues of the Upper West side of Manhattan).

Steven Malanga, the author, is a senior fellow for the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. MIPR is a low-trust source. It was one of the big "research" sources for the tobacco institute, and provides such for the anti-AGW crowd as well. The organization's leadership is in cooperative agreements and various 'temporary assignments' with ALEC and the American Enterprise Institute.

The articles themselves do a poor job of bringing supporting evidence. Anecdotes are cited, and opinions are cited as fact. The alleged facts aren't footnoted for verification.

Give me some studies, not opinion pieces by political operatives please.

126 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:03:56pm

That's the problem with the GOP nowadays - they are painted into a corner where they have to portray very basic and very American safety net programs as "dependencies" and "free stuff" when they are basic needs supported by overwhelming majorities of the country. They've got to make "entitlement" sound like a dirty word.

127 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:03:58pm

I'm not necessarily saying it invalidates the stories Dark Falcon links to, but just to put it all on the table, city-journal.org is owned by the Manhattan Institute. (Bolding mine.)

The Manhattan Institute received $19,470,416 in grants from 1985–2005, from foundations such as the Koch Family Foundations, the John M. Olin Foundation, Inc., the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, the Scaife Foundations, and the Smith Richardson Foundation.[5] The Manhattan Institute does not disclose its corporate funding, but the Capital Research Center listed its contributors as Bristol-Myers Squibb, Exxon Mobil, Chase Manhattan, CIGNA, Sprint, Reliant Energy, Lincoln Financial Group Foundation, and Merrill Lynch.[6]

With that list of contributors, I'd suggest that "dog whistles" are the goal.

128 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:04:02pm

re: #118 A Mom Anon

That's a possible problem with Mitt, it may be he has never had any poor friends . . .just employees

129 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:06:01pm
130 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:06:45pm

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

What is being referenced is this HuffPo piece and a Tweet about same.

Oh, sorry, I missed that. But the logic still stands: He's saying that those who vote for Obama do so because they want free stuff that he gives him. It's a really obvious lie, and a really obvious dogwhistle considering the breakdown of the way that populations vote.

All right -- there are 47 percent who are with [Obama], who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing.

He is saying in this calumnies against a lot of the US population. He is saying that 70% of Jewish believe that they are victims, for example. That 90%+ of blacks do. Do you think that that 70% of Jews believe that they are victims, that they think they're entitled to health care, to food, to housing?

[Link: www.thejewishweek.com...]

131 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:08:13pm

re: #127 BongCrodny

I'm not necessarily saying it invalidates the stories Dark Falcon links to, but just to put it all on the table, city-journal.org is owned by the Manhattan Institute. (Bolding mine.)

With that list of contributors, I'd suggest that "dog whistles" are the goal.

Scaife isn't problematic, and I've never heard any accusation of racism against either Koch brother. Heard accusations of them trying to get laws to favor them economically, yes; racism, no.

132 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:08:47pm

Smirking Mitt gets his own tumblr.

[Link: smirkingmitt.tumblr.com...]

133 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:09:06pm

What dog whistles?

134 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:09:26pm

Bauer: Because of Obama's Ignorance 'More Americans Will Come Home in Body Bags'

A little over a week ago, we noted that Gary Bauer had started posting videos on his YouTube page discussing current events, meaning that now we have the displeasure of watching him deliver his smug, self-righteous commentary on a weekly basis.

On Friday, Bauer weighed in on the attack in Libya where he repeated the false claim that the Marines had been prohibited from carrying live ammunition before mocking the Egyptian embassy staff and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for denouncing those who "hurt the religious feelings of Muslims" or "denigrate the religious beliefs of others," saying "if only this administration felt the same way about American Christians."

Bauer went on to decry "these disgusting apologies," calling them an insult before declaring that "because of [the administration's] ignorance, more Americans will come home in body bags in the days ahead" and thus "for the sake of our country's future, the sake of the safety of our families, this administration has to go":

135 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:09:27pm

re: #132 darthstar

Smirking Mitt gets his own tumblr.

[Link: smirkingmitt.tumblr.com...]

Image: tumblr_maajwg6plM1rgxeeio1_1280.jpg
My favorite one.

136 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:10:00pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

Scaife isn't problematic, and I've never heard any accusation of racism against either Koch brother. Heard accusations of them trying to get laws to favor them economically, yes; racism, no.

Review the Mellon-Scaife history. One of the scions made a hobby of siccing a psycho 'journalist' to stalk Bill Clinton.

137 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:10:08pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

If the Manhattan Institute bases their welfare reform on the Bell Curve, then they are indeed basing it on racism.

138 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:10:27pm

re: #133 Lidane

What dog whistles?

[Embedded content]

Seriously fuck Mitt Romney.

139 blueraven  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:10:48pm

re: #129 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Note to Scumbag Mitt Romney

I pay taxes and I voted for Obama
I am not a victim you POS

140 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:11:05pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

Scaife isn't problematic

Bullshit.

American Enterprise Institute
Atlas Economic Research Foundation
David Horowitz Freedom Center
Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, which advocates for free-market solutions to environmental issues and dissent on anthropogenic global warming [23]
Commonwealth Foundation for Public Policy Alternatives - a Harrisburg-based libertarian think tank [24]
Federalist Society
Foundation for Economic Education
Free Congress Foundation (headed by Paul Weyrich)
Freedom House
GOPAC (headed by Newt Gingrich)
Independent Women's Forum
Intercollegiate Studies Institute (which operates the Collegiate Network)
Judicial Watch
Landmark Legal Foundation
Media Research Center (headed by Brent Bozell)
Pacific Legal Foundation
World Affairs Council of Pittsburgh
Reason Foundation

---

All funded, in whole or in part, by Richard Mellon Scaife.

Don't tell me he's 'not problematic.'

141 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:11:28pm

Only the magic 8 ball knows

142 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:11:28pm

re: #136 Decatur Deb

Review the Mellon-Scaife history. One of the scions made a hobby of siccing a psycho 'journalist' to stalk Bill Clinton.

Here: The 'Arkansas Project'

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

143 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:11:38pm

I think Romney is probably just projecting his own feelings of worthlessness on to Obama voters. See, Mitt, I can make shit up about you too!

144 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:11:44pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

Scaife isn't problematic, and I've never heard any accusation of racism against either Koch brother. Heard accusations of them trying to get laws to favor them economically, yes; racism, no.

So you're saying you agree that the Kochs are dishonest (maybe criminal) people but at least they aren't racists?

145 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:11:49pm

re: #130 Obdicut

Oh, sorry, I missed that. But the logic still stands: He's saying that those who vote for Obama do so because they want free stuff that he gives him. It's a really obvious lie, and a really obvious dogwhistle considering the breakdown of the way that populations vote.

He is saying in this calumnies against a lot of the US population. He is saying that 70% of Jewish believe that they are victims, for example. That 90%+ of blacks do. Do you think that that 70% of Jews believe that they are victims, that they think they're entitled to health care, to food, to housing?

[Link: www.thejewishweek.com...]

No, I don't. His remarks were at a closed door event and were a classic "sermon to the choir", much like Obama's "clinging to their guns and their religion" remarks were*. Such sermons often have a significant BS factor, and sadly this one did as well.

*: Both statements were "sermons to the choir" was the point I was making. I was not comparing their veracity/

146 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:12:08pm

Winning

Image: tumblr_maaj5gZ1GK1rgxeeio1_1280.jpg

147 Sionainn  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:12:32pm

re: #139 blueraven

Note to Scumbag Mitt Romney

I pay taxes and I voted for Obama
I am not a victim you POS

Yes. That's exactly it. He's insulting millions of taxpaying Obama supporters who don't expect the government to give them "free stuff."

148 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:13:35pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

Scaife isn't problematic

You're delusional. Richard Mellon Scaife spent the 90's peddling the Arkansas Project. He's an insane raving wingnut.

149 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:13:36pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Obama's point was astute. Voters who are turned off from the political process, who lose faith in government, cling to the issues important to them, like guns and religion. It was a perfectly true thing, and it was even, in context, sympathetic.

Your comparison is really deceptive, and I'm hoping it's unintentional. What Romney said there was completely in line with what he said at the NAACP. There is no daylight between that private position and public one, so your excuse there doesn't work, either.

Again: Do you consider yourself dependent on the government?

150 A Mom Anon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:14:26pm

re: #128 DisturbedEma

He just said to George Stephanopoulous this weekend that middle class is 200-250K or less. The actual median income in America is around 50K,to Mitt that's wipe his ass money. He writes off more than that for his dancing horse.

I really wish guys like him had to live right smack in the middle of Pine Ridge SD(last I checked that was THE poorest county in the US)for a year with no privledges,no special treatment,nothing. He'd cry his way through winter there.

151 RadicalModerate  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:14:56pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

Scaife isn't problematic, and I've never heard any accusation of racism against either Koch brother. Heard accusations of them trying to get laws to favor them economically, yes; racism, no.

Scaife isn't problematic? Mellon-Scaife was the driving force behind trying to get Bill Clinton removed from office by any means possible in the 1990s.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

He's the one who was DIRECTLY responsible for the entire spate of "Vince Foster" conspiracy theories, as well as just about every other piece of insanity back then.

152 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:15:21pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

No, I don't. His remarks were at a closed door event and were a classic "sermon to the choir", much like Obama's "clinging to their guns and their religion" remarks were*. Such sermons often have a significant BS factor, and sadly this one did as well.

*: Both statements were "sermons to the choir" was the point I was making. I was not comparing their veracity/

He's said this a few times before. Remember his NAACP remarks? Really, he thinks that people are only voting for Obama over him because he thinks we think we're all victims and dependent on government. And as I said, the hypocrisy is funny too considering he's had no problem using that same government for his business ventures. Really, he's an asshole for repeatedly doing this.

153 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:15:39pm
154 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:15:54pm

re: #136 Decatur Deb

Review the Mellon-Scaife history. One of the scions made a hobby of siccing a psycho 'journalist' to stalk Bill Clinton.

There's also that horseshit about the Clintons being responsible for the death of Vince Foster, too.

155 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:16:00pm

re: #150 A Mom Anon

He just said to George Stephanopoulous this weekend that middle class is 200-250K or less. The actual median income in America is around 50K,to Mitt that's wipe his ass money. He writes off more than that for his dancing horse.

I really wish guys like him had to live right smack in the middle of Pine Ridge SD(last I checked that was THE poorest county in the US)for a year with no privledges,no special treatment,nothing. He'd cry his way through winter there.

He wouldn't last a winter there, I bet.

156 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:16:16pm

re: #137 Obdicut

If the Manhattan Institute bases their welfare reform on the Bell Curve, then they are indeed basing it on racism.

They do not, nor do the articles I linked to rely on any research done by Charles Murray (to the best of my knowledge).

157 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:16:21pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

No, I don't. His remarks were at a closed door event and were a classic "sermon to the choir", much like Obama's "clinging to their guns and their religion" remarks were*. Such sermons often have a significant BS factor, and sadly this one did as well.

*: Both statements were "sermons to the choir" was the point I was making. I was not comparing their veracity/

Obama's 'clinging to guns and religion' comment wasn't meant as an insult to conservatives, it was an observation of how people who are scared (or taught to be frightened of some nebulous evil) will recoil and hold on to those things that they feel define themselves...He wasn't being a bigot and calling people free-loaders. He was talking about understanding what makes people tick.

158 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:16:22pm

re: #153 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Zing!

159 Randall Gross  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:16:40pm

re: #133 Lidane

What dog whistles?

[Embedded content]

Everyone needs to watch that video, and then picture the faces of the people that they know on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment, or food stamps.

160 blueraven  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:16:57pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

No, I don't. His remarks were at a closed door event and were a classic "sermon to the choir", much like Obama's "clinging to their guns and their religion" remarks were*. Such sermons often have a significant BS factor, and sadly this one did as well.

*: Both statements were "sermons to the choir" was the point I was making. I was not comparing their veracity/

So I guess it is fair for Romney to receive the same amount of flack over these comments then.

161 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:17:13pm

re: #150 A Mom Anon

Maybe he'd be ok- if Ann got some new tunafish recipies. . .///

But seriously, you point is well taken.

162 A Mom Anon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:17:54pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

You do understand that racism to these guys is a tactic to win by divide and conquer,right? They don't give a shit how they win,as long as they do. Whether they believe it personally or not,they sure as hell don't discourage it.

163 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:18:23pm

re: #149 Obdicut

Again: Do you consider yourself dependent on the government?

Not a fair question to ask DF, IMO. He has made it known that his income depends on the US Defense industry.

164 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:19:04pm

re: #149 Obdicut

Obama's point was astute. Voters who are turned off from the political process, who lose faith in government, cling to the issues important to them, like guns and religion. It was a perfectly true thing, and it was even, in context, sympathetic.

Your comparison is really deceptive, and I'm hoping it's unintentional. What Romney said there was completely in line with what he said at the NAACP. There is no daylight between that private position and public one, so your excuse there doesn't work, either.

Again: Do you consider yourself dependent on the government?


I decline to answer.

165 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:19:11pm

re: #157 darthstar

Obama's 'clinging to guns and religion' comment wasn't meant as an insult to conservatives, it was an observation of how people who are scared (or taught to be frightened of some nebulous evil) will recoil and hold on to those things that they feel define themselves...He wasn't being a bigot and calling people free-loaders. He was talking about understanding what makes people tick.

And he never said "[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Basically Mitt is saying "Fuck those people".

166 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:19:16pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

They do not, nor do the articles I linked to rely on any research done by Charles Murray (to the best of my knowledge).

Sorry Dark, yes, they do. It took me five seconds to find this out.

[Link: www.manhattan-institute.org...]

Murray is still in perfectly good standing with the Manhattan Institute.

167 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:19:39pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

They do not, nor do the articles I linked to rely on any research done by Charles Murray (to the best of my knowledge).

Not even "Losing Ground"? Hmmm must check. . .

168 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:20:00pm

re: #163 darthstar

Not a fair question to ask DF, IMO. He has made it known that his income depends on the US Defense industry.

While I was employed by Marcus Evans, that fact was indeed true.

169 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:20:06pm

re: #162 A Mom Anon

You do understand that racism to these guys is a tactic to win by divide and conquer,right? They don't give a shit how they win,as long as they do. Whether they believe it personally or not,they sure as hell don't discourage it.

You're talking to a guy who has specifically praised this ideology. A guy who said (paraphrasing because I don't have the direct quote) "I don't care about what's true, I just care about what will hurt Obama!"

170 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:20:12pm

re: #161 DisturbedEma

your (oops)

171 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:20:40pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon


I decline to answer.

The fifth amendment provides protection from self-incrimination, which this isn't. So that's fatuous.

I believe that while employed, you got an accommodation at work under the ADA. Is that true?

172 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:20:50pm

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

While I was employed by Marcus Evans, that fact was indeed true.

Oh, I didn't know you left them. Was this recent? Did you find a better gig?

173 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:21:06pm

From Right Wing Watch's page about the Manhattan Institute:

Charles Murray served as a visiting fellow from 1981-1990. Murray later authored the controversial 1994 work, The Bell Curve, in which he argues that the gap between black IQ scores and white and Asian IQ scores in America cannot be explained by social factors and subsequently forwards the idea of genetic intelligence differences between races.

Maybe they don't base their research on Murray's work, but they thought highly enough of him to make him a fellow.

174 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:22:00pm

re: #166 Obdicut

Sorry Dark, yes, they do. It took me five seconds to find this out.

[Link: www.manhattan-institute.org...]

Murray is still in perfectly good standing with the Manhattan Institute.

Thought so!

175 erik_t  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:22:08pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon


I decline to answer.

Then by my equally relevant first amendment rights, I will now feel free to call you a coward who is unwilling to defend his own opinions in a non-judicial setting.

176 Blizard  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:22:42pm

re: #91 dragonfire1981

The Romney Campaign does it again.

Oh Snap!

177 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:22:45pm

re: #165 recusancy

And he never said "[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Basically Mitt is saying "Fuck those people".

The POTUS is supposed to represent all Americans, not those who paid to put him into office.

178 HappyWarrior  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:24:18pm

re: #177 Kragar

The POTUS is supposed to represent all Americans, not those who paid to put him into office.

Well he only really cares about those are paying to put him in office. And himself. Especially himself.

179 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:25:15pm

One word to describe Romney: Incompetent.

Two words: Dangerously incompetent.

180 Stanghazi  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:25:20pm

re: #177 Kragar

The POTUS is supposed to represent all Americans, not those who paid to put him into office.

That is the scariest part about Romney. He doesn't like 1/2 of America.

Wow.

181 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:25:27pm

Shit, it doesn't even matter. We are all dependent on the government. That's because we live in a first world country, and aren't scrabbling an existence off of roots and shrubs out in the dirt. The government is a device that we use to improve our lives, and it's big and unweildy and is easy to make fun of but it is completely and utterly necessary for all of us to have these incredibly privileged lives that we lead.

I am really sick and tired of the fucking anarchists in the GOP who are attacking the very idea of government itself, the very idea that government involvement in our lives is necessary. It is incredibly fucking dangerous to intentionally try to tell your citizens that they should be against the government.

182 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:25:32pm

re: #166 Obdicut

Sorry Dark, yes, they do. It took me five seconds to find this out.

[Link: www.manhattan-institute.org...]

Murray is still in perfectly good standing with the Manhattan Institute.

What you said referred to the Manhattan Institute (MI) "basing its welfare policy off of The Bell Curve". I said that it did not do that, and showing that Charles Murray has worked with MI does not prove that the institute bases its policy off of his most controversial book.

And my point does stand that neither article in question used research data from Murray.

183 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:27:35pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

His latest work, Coming Apart, is also a racist pile of crap, Dark, and they're promoting that.

You've been linking to City Journal for a long time, and I've never really bothered to research them, but now that they've been drug out into the light: Man, what a bunch of creeps. Scaife's involvement alone is detestable, but to continue to promote a shitty parascientist like Murray is really contemptible.

184 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:28:05pm

re: #172 darthstar

Oh, I didn't know you left them. Was this recent? Did you find a better gig?

I left at the end of August. My team and I had a very bad August, and with the government cutting back on conferences and travel there were no events about to start that I had experience selling. So they decided to let me go, though they aren't challenging my unemployment.

185 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:28:09pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

And how would you point out that policies that foster dependance on government also create their own constituencies without a 'dog whistle'?

You could point out the policies that reward companies for out sourcing overseas that fist fuck regular people into needing those government handouts (while ignoring those doing the fist fucking of taking billions more than is doled out to the fist fuckees).

We guard our world with locks and guns
And we guard our fine possessions
And once a year when christmas comes
We give to our relations
And perhaps we give a little to the poor
If the generosity should seize us
But if any one of us should interfere
In the business of why they are poor
They get the same as the rebel jesus
- Rebel Jesus

186 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:29:33pm

re: #173 BongCrodny

Given the tone and conclusions of Murray's work Losing Groung, those who were interested in looking at welfare as an entitlement, or in the case of Murray, a family killer (his fictitious couple was better off if they got married and stayed of welfare than if they stayed apart while collecting welfare) I will have to look at see if any of the research cites him. . .which if true, would mean he was involved. . .

187 A Mom Anon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:30:59pm

re: #180 Stanley Sea

I think it's more than half,and it applies to a majority in the party itself. There are some wonderful conservatives out there and those are the ones who feel disenfranchised by the party but are also not ready to join the Democrats either. But I think they're a minority now. The rest of them say they love America,but they sure as hell don't like most Americans.

188 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:31:51pm

re: #185 RayFerd

That is a separate issue from what I was addressing. You may wish to call it a linked issue, but I have to ask you not to do that. I'm only one person and I don't have the back-up I'd need right now to take issues more than one at a time.

189 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:32:52pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

What you said referred to the Manhattan Institute (MI) "basing its welfare policy off of The Bell Curve". I said that it did not do that, and showing that Charles Murray has worked with MI does not prove that the institute bases its policy off of his most controversial book.

And my point does stand that neither article in question used research data from Murray.

So that particular fly is not responsible, but it comes from the same dung heap.

190 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:32:58pm

Rush Limbaugh: Obama ‘culpable’ for attacks

Rush Limbaugh said Monday that President Barack Obama is “culpable” for last week’s attacks against U.S. posts overseas.

“Clearly it’s President Obama who is culpable for the outbreak of violence in the Middle East on 9/11 this year. It’s this administration,” the conservative radio host said on his program, according to a show transcript. “Keep in mind, this is the guy that was gonna make us loved. This was the president that was gonna end all of this rancor and argument and terrorism.”

191 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:33:06pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

Dark, do you think Romney was dependent on the government when he sought massive, unprecedented amounts of federal and state funding for the Olympics?

192 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:33:07pm

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

I left at the end of August. My team and I had a very bad August, and with the government cutting back on conferences and travel there were no events about to start that I had experience selling. So they decided to let me go, though they aren't challenging my unemployment.

So you're on unemployment? I'll refrain from commenting further.

193 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:33:16pm

re: #187 A Mom Anon

I think it's more than half,and it applies to a majority in the party itself. There are some wonderful conservatives out there and those are the ones who feel disenfranchised by the party but are also not ready to join the Democrats either. But I think they're a minority now. The rest of them say they love America,but they sure as hell don't like most Americans.

I would agree, and wonder how intolerable it will have to get for them to break their silence and do more than distance themselves, but to actually reject this bullshit. . .unless I missed someone/group doing so already?

194 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:34:22pm

re: #186 DisturbedEma

Ground. . .spell check use activated

195 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:34:49pm

re: #192 recusancy

So you're on unemployment? I'll refrain from commenting further.

Beat me to it. . .

196 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:35:26pm

re: #192 recusancy

So you're on unemployment? I'll refrain from commenting further.

For the time being. But I'd point out that I have in previous times defended at least a limited social safety net, so I am not a hypocrite in this.

197 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:35:36pm

So much for Mitt's hopes of getting 38% of the Latino vote. At this rate, he'll be lucky to get double digits:

198 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:36:15pm
199 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:36:35pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

For the time being. But I'd point out that I have in previous times defended at least a limited social safety net, so I am not a hypocrite in this.

In previous times? But not now?

200 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:36:45pm

re: #197 Lidane

So much for Mitt's hopes of getting 38% of the Latino vote. At this rate, he'll be lucky to get double digits:

[Embedded content]

Know what would have really boosted his chances of winning? Not being a complete dick.

201 dragonath  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:37:13pm

re: #197 Lidane

No freakin' way!

202 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:37:33pm

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

I left at the end of August. My team and I had a very bad August, and with the government cutting back on conferences and travel there were no events about to start that I had experience selling. So they decided to let me go, though they aren't challenging my unemployment.

So that's two government programs you're dependent on right now, UI for current income and ADA to maintain past and make possible future employment. It's weird to see you arguing in favor of a candidate that has so much contempt for people in your situation.

Also on that day Romney vetoed an additional $25,000 to the Braintree, Massachusetts Council on Aging. The money was again proposed to meet improvements with the ADA.

At the time Mitt Romney said the programs: “Would be nice to have, but which we cannot justify paying for out of rainy day funds. A smaller number of these projects are just pure pork.”

However, as Governor, Romney kept a private elevator in the Massachusetts Statehouse locked exclusively for his personal use.

A vote for Romney is a vote against your own self interest:

Q: Would you sign a bill to extend unemployment insurance if you were president right now?

A: If I were president right now, I would go to Congress with a new system for unemployment, which would have specific accounts from which people could withdraw their own funds. And I would not put in place a continuation of the current plan

203 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:37:41pm

Just looked through that chart again, and even people with a HS diploma or less were more approving of President Obama than Romney on this issue. THAT is pretty telling.

204 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:37:46pm

re: #200 Kragar

Insult meet injury. . .oh snap

205 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:37:55pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

What you said referred to the Manhattan Institute (MI) "basing its welfare policy off of The Bell Curve". I said that it did not do that, and showing that Charles Murray has worked with MI does not prove that the institute bases its policy off of his most controversial book.

And my point does stand that neither article in question used research data from Murray.

Except that The Bell Curve wasn't just racist, it was shitty math and shitty science, deceptively used to make a racist point. Whole books have been written on how shitty the math and science were.

Charles Murray isn't just a racist, he's a man who makes his living presenting data deceptively. That's why the Manhattan Institute like him. He knows how to create the superficial semblance of validity.

206 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:38:25pm
207 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:38:28pm
208 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:39:14pm

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

For the time being. But I'd point out that I have in previous times defended at least a limited social safety net, so I am not a hypocrite in this.

For the time being. Of course. It's all the "others" who abuse the system.

Which government programs do you feel are beyond the "limited social safety net"? The ones which make you dependent on the government.

209 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:40:53pm

re: #197 Lidane

So much for Mitt's hopes of getting 38% of the Latino vote. At this rate, he'll be lucky to get double digits:

[Embedded content]

You know who else that pisses off? White people who aren't bigots. You're doing a heckuva job, Mittens.

210 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:42:29pm

re: #208 recusancy

For the time being. Of course. It's all the "others" who abuse the system.

Which government programs do you feel are beyond the "limited social safety net"? The ones which make you dependent on the government.

"For the time being" is something I only said because I wanted to underscore my commitment to finding a new job near-term. I write it to make sure I stay motivated.

211 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:42:46pm

re: #209 darthstar

You know who else that pisses off? White people who aren't bigots. You're doing a heckuva job, Mittens.

But it's just partisan red meat! Surely people will see the videos and understand that!

///

212 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:43:03pm

re: #206 Lidane

[Embedded content] Huh these videos have been kicking around Youtube for 3 months

And on this thread for over an hour.

213 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:43:03pm

re: #187 A Mom Anon

I think it's more than half,and it applies to a majority in the party itself. There are some wonderful conservatives out there and those are the ones who feel disenfranchised by the party but are also not ready to join the Democrats either. But I think they're a minority now. The rest of them say they love America,but they sure as hell don't like most Americans.

Think they're called 'Frums'. David just found out that 'frumian' is an adjective.

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

214 kirkspencer  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:43:56pm

re: #208 recusancy

For the time being. Of course. It's all the "others" who abuse the system.

Which government programs do you feel are beyond the "limited social safety net"? The ones which make you dependent on the government.

Dependent on the government? How about the US court system. Or defense? Oh, what about border patrol?

215 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:43:56pm

re: #209 darthstar

If you were Latino Mitt, you'd probably get a taste of "where's your birth certificate" and other unsavory requests. . .you asshat!

216 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:44:09pm

re: #209 darthstar

You know who else that pisses off? White people who aren't bigots. You're doing a heckuva job, Mittens.

Think the Cowboys will win the NFC East this year, George?

/nothing but a joke.

217 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:44:13pm
218 A Mom Anon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:44:47pm

re: #207 Interesting Times

You know what? If you're alive then yes,you are entitled to food,clothing,shelter,a decent education and healthcare. It's sort of part of that whole life,liberty,pursuit of happiness thing(kinda hard to be happy if you're sick,homeless and hungry) Anyone who claims to be Pro Life but doesn't agree with that is full of shit. I'm also entitled to clean air to breathe and water to drink goddamnit and I won't apologize for that.Imagine what this country would be able to achieve if everyone just had those basic things in place. So much more human potential could be realized. I'm not talking about everyone living in luxury for free,just a basic minimum standard without shame and fear attached. I am so SICK of punishment being the cure all for poor people,while assholes who lie and steal their way to success going unchecked and being made into the fucking gold standard of what we're all supposed to be.

219 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:46:00pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

"For the time being" is something I only said because I wanted to underscore my commitment to finding a new job near-term. I write it to make sure I stay motivated.

Do you think that your commitment makes you unique for someone in your situation?

220 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:47:15pm

re: #219 recusancy

Do you think that your commitment makes you unique for someone in your situation?

No. But the first and main person my attitude effects is me, so it is important that I have the right attitude.

221 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:47:28pm

re: #218 A Mom Anon

You know what? If you're alive then yes,you are entitled to food,clothing,shelter,a decent education and healthcare. It's sort of part of that whole life,liberty,pursuit of happiness thing(kinda hard to be happy if you're sick,homeless and hungry) Anyone who claims to be Pro Life but doesn't agree with that is full of shit. I'm also entitled to clean air to breathe and water to drink goddamnit and I won't apologize for that.Imagine what this country would be able to achieve if everyone just had those basic things in place. So much more human potential could be realized. I'm not talking about everyone living in luxury for free,just a basic minimum standard without shame and fear attached. I am so SICK of punishment being the cure all for poor people,while assholes who lie and steal their way to success going unchecked and being made into the fucking gold standard of what we're all supposed to be.

Can't have those things. That would require that millions of more people go to work...Oh..

222 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:47:42pm
223 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:47:45pm

Obama: 'I've Actually Done My Own Taxes'

President Obama today sharpened a personal line of attack on his Republican rival, mocking Romney's tax proposals and renewing a charge that he is an outsourcing "pioneer."

"I've actually done my own taxes," Obama said, showing a hint of disdain for Romney at a rally in Eden Park. "I don't know about some of these other folks, but I've done them, you know… So I know we can make it more simple and more fair."

The president blasted the Romney-Ryan tax plan as slanted toward upper-income earners, increasing burdens on the middle class and growing the federal deficit. "As President Clinton pointed out, there's one thing missing from it: arithmetic. Arithmetic," Obama said.

"They must have skipped math class when they were in school," he quipped of his opponents. "And whenever you ask them to explain the plan, they won't. They won't say how they pay for $5 trillion in new tax cuts. They can't tell you how they're going to pay for it. And the truth is, they can't pay for it without raising taxes on middle-class families."

224 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:48:05pm

Mother Jones has a new Romney video of Romney being his usual prick self

Youtube Video
225 A Mom Anon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:48:50pm

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

And I hope you find something soon DF,but if you don't it's a damned good thing there's at least a little safety net there for you. And I am also grateful for that because I would hate for you or your family to have a financial setback over a job loss.

226 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:48:59pm

"I have inherited nothing."

-Mitt Romney

[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

227 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:49:24pm

re: #197 Lidane

So much for Mitt's hopes of getting 38% of the Latino vote. At this rate, he'll be lucky to get double digits:

[Embedded content]

If only I had Mexican parents, it would be so much easier!

Never mind that if you had different parents (especially parents who were a minority in this country), odds are that your parents wouldn't have been insanely wealthy, allowing you to attend all the best private schools. And without that great education growing up, odds are you wouldn't have been able to get into the best colleges and graduate programs, nor would you have had your parents to pay for all of it. And without those degrees from the best colleges, you wouldn't have gotten great jobs running major corporations. And without those great jobs, you would have never had a chance to be in charge of the Olympics. And without the great jobs and the gig running the Olympics, you would have never been Governor of Massachusetts. And without the great jobs, the gig running the Olympics, and your time as Governor, you wouldn't be in a Presidential election as a major party candidate!

Ignore all that! If only you were a minority, your life would be so much easier right now!

228 Kragar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:50:46pm

re: #226 SpaceJesus

"I have inherited nothing."

-Mitt Romney

[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

Well, not counting the metric fuckton of money, plus being sent to private schools, getting special treatment because of his dad's status, etc. Asides from all that, its absolutely nothing.

229 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:51:05pm

re: #224 SpaceJesus


"half the country sits on its ass and wants free money" sounds like a real great way to sound if you want to govern a nation.

230 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:51:17pm

re: #227 JamesWI

Because being a minority means you get all the breaks/////

231 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:52:00pm
232 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:52:14pm

re: #228 Kragar

Now now, you know how mean the streets of France can be. . ./

233 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:52:24pm

re: #226 SpaceJesus

"I have inherited nothing."

-Mitt Romney

[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

That is technically true, but it is not the whole story. It was George Romney whose work earned his son's tuition fees and Mitt would admit he has benefited from his father's name.

234 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:52:29pm

Prankster who fucked with Gretchen Carlson on Fox isn't a college graduate...yet.

Rice said his national television debut fell into his lap. The film student at Columbia College Chicago told TPM Monday that a “friend of a friend” who works at Fox News reached out earlier this month hoping to find erstwhile young Obama voters who have shifted their support to Mitt Romney out of frustration with the stagnant job market.

“When I picked up the phone, my ears perked up at the national TV part,” Rice said. “I was like, ‘Fuck yeah, I graduated college.’ And they should have known I hadn’t graduated.”

[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Fox is so desperate to help Mitt that they're not even vetting people before putting them on the air. I fucking love this.

235 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:53:22pm

U.S. Warns Ruling Impedes Its Detention Powers

The Obama administration warned Monday that a judge’s ruling last week blocking a statute authorizing the indefinite detention of terrorism suspects has jeopardized its ability to continue detaining certain prisoners captured during the war in Afghanistan.
...
Judge Forrest’s order “threatens irreparable harm to national security and the public interest by injecting added burdens and dangerous confusion into the conduct of military operations abroad during an active armed conflict,” the government wrote in a 38-page filing with the federal appeals court in New York.

236 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:54:53pm

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

That is technically true

You've got to be kidding. Not even you could believe that Romney 'inherited nothing.' Come on, Dark.

237 TedStriker  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:56:02pm

re: #163 darthstar

Not a fair question to ask DF, IMO. He has made it known that his income depends on the US Defense industry.

Depended, darth...Dark got canned a couple of weeks ago.

238 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:56:14pm

re: #232 DisturbedEma

Now now, you know how mean the streets of France can be. . ./

Especially after Mitt had bravely protested FOR the Vietnam draft.

I'm sure he suffered greatly in a French palace during the war.

239 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:56:41pm

re: #236 makeitstop

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. . .true story in my family for sure. . .

240 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:57:17pm

re: #238 Lidane

Indeed. . .

241 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 1:59:27pm

re: #236 makeitstop

You've got to be kidding. Not even you could believe that Romney 'inherited nothing.' Come on, Dark.

Read the whole post.

BBL

242 Lidane  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 2:00:29pm
243 recusancy  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 2:00:54pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

Read the whole post.

BBL

It's not even "technically" true.

244 darthstar  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 2:02:14pm

re: #237 Gert Fröbe

Depended, darth...Dark got canned a week or two ago.

Losing a job is never fun. Hopefully, this will be good for him. Selling seats to warmongers doesn't sound like the kind of job that helps a person see value in their fellow human beings.

Dark, I hope you find a new gig soon. In the meantime, unemployment does keep the wolves away from the door. And while COBRA is expensive, it beats being uninsured. But you're young, so that shouldn't be an issue. Good luck, and congratulations on getting out of a thankless situation (from your brief mentions of your work in recent months, it sounds like your boss was a demanding asshole).

245 Blizard  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 2:12:37pm

Mother Jones vid is now on Huff Po. Here we go!

246 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 2:40:27pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

That is a separate issue from what I was addressing. You may wish to call it a linked issue, but I have to ask you not to do that. I'm only one person and I don't have the back-up I'd need right now to take issues more than one at a time.

Wasn't laser aimed at you, more of a shotgun. Was just cruising through while waiting for a test to run and saw the comments about "the poor". This always cranks my shaft because everyone wants to argue the need for "entitlements" from 10,000 feet rather than get on the ground and fix the "why" they are poor. They are not lazy, they just have no jobs (and the ones that do still need help because the pay sucks and the landlords keep raising the rents, the water bills keep going up, the bus fare goes up, the food bill goes up, the electric bill goes up, etc) because of an unsustainable lust for more profits to satisfy the fucking investor class. Then the investor class sees more money to be made by moving to a country that has no restrictions on how they can treat employees (and make them sign a non suicide pact with their family as collateral, should tell you something about working there) so are getting work for slave labor. Then a government that rewards this move to another country rather than tariffing (sic) the shit out of the goods brought back to the states for sale to make it more enticing for the company to produce the product here in the US with US workers. There is more but I have run on long enough.

247 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 3:10:54pm

re: #1 Targetpractice

Cinesimon, Merkin... He's not being serious. That's sarcasm when you see purple Comic Sans.

248 Gus  Mon, Sep 17, 2012 3:12:17pm

re: #247 Gus

Cinesimon, Merkin... He's not being serious. That's sarcasm when you see purple Comic Sans.

Sort of like parody.


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