Romney: “I Don’t Know Why Airplane Windows Don’t Open”

Need… oxygen… must open… window…
Politics • Views: 45,360

At a fundraiser in Beverly Hills, Mitt Romney talked about the emergency landing his wife’s plane had to make recently, and revealed a heretofore unknown talent for innovative engineering ideas.

Romney’s wife, Ann, was in attendance, and the candidate spoke of the concern he had for her when her plane had to make an emergency landing Friday en route to Santa Monica because of an electrical  malfunction.

“I appreciate the fact that she is on the ground, safe and sound. And I don’t think she knows just how worried some of us were,” Romney said. “When you have a fire in an aircraft, there’s no place to go, exactly, there’s no — and you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem. So it’s very dangerous. And she was choking and rubbing her eyes. Fortunately, there was enough oxygen for the pilot and copilot to make a safe landing in Denver. But she’s safe and sound.”

I thought that was why airplanes come equipped with oxygen masks, but I guess that’s why Mitt Romney has a car elevator and I don’t.

Also see
UPDATE at 9/25/12 10:40:14 am

Dan Amira at New York Magazine reports that Romney was making a joke: Mitt Romney Was Joking About Airplane Windows.

Seems like an odd subject to joke about, and the “joke” wasn’t actually funny, but that’s the Romney style.

Jump to bottom

174 comments
1 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:40:05am

You know, I'm starting to get the feeling that Mitt Romney really isn't very smart.

2 Lidane  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:41:28am

Sure, let's add oxygen to a fire. Great idea.

Also, to paraphrase Matt Yglesias, how does opening the windows help during a fire on a plane? What are you going to do, jump out?

3 Destro  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:41:35am

What is wrong with this guy? I assumed he was a phoney not an idiot like Bush, jr. So what the fuck?


Maybe this Twilight Zone episode will explain why airplanes don't have roll down windows:

Shatner v The Gremlin - Nightmare at 20,000 feet

4 CarleeCork  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:41:40am

God help us if that idiot wins.

5 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:42:21am

re: #1 Charles Johnson

You know, I'm starting to get the feeling that Mitt Romney really isn't very smart.

Were you quoting Sarah Palin there?

6 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:42:28am

*facepalm*

7 Mattand  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:42:45am

Mashup of my stuff from the previous thread:

I don't expect the POTUS to be an expert in an engineering or science, but, Christ, this is like the whole "tides go in" O'Reilly meme.

To paraphrase Louis CK, you're in a giant metal tube 30,000 feet in the air. The cabin is pressurized. Having adjustable windows is a bad idea.

You'd think a guy who has spent a good portion of his life on airplanes would know this.

8 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:43:06am

re: #1 Charles Johnson

You know, I'm starting to get the feeling that Mitt Romney really isn't very smart.

Just a tad...
...
..
.

9 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:43:39am

There isn't all that much oxygen at 30,000 feet.

10 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:43:43am

And that's why Mitt's running for president of the US and not heading a design team for Boeing. Stick to the stuff you know about.

I get that he was concerned about his wife's safety and health in that electrical fire on board her plane. But that's why most planes have an emergency oxygen system to deal with decompression. Adjustable windows? Seriously?

Adding oxygen to a fire would only make things worse (see Apollo 1).

11 elektramourns  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:43:54am

My God, is there no topic, no subject, no idea, this man cannot maim or screw up? What fucking planet does Mitt live on?????

12 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:44:25am

What caused the flare up on the plane, anyway? Spontaneous combustion?

13 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:44:59am

re: #9 wrenchwench

Well, you'd need supplemental oxygen at 30k, but if you opened the window at 30k, it would be coming in at whatever speed the plane was flying at the time (which could be as much as 600 mph or more).

14 ShaunP  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:45:28am

Romneybot is perfectly fine operating in sub zero and partial atmosphere environments. Leave him alone!

15 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:45:47am

Out of concern for his wife's safety, Mitt Romney announce she will only travel by motorcycle in states without helmet laws.

16 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:45:50am

The solution to the problem of a fire is... more oxygen? Does Mitt know how fires work?

17 Lidane  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:46:14am
18 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:46:20am

Mitt just wants the windows to open from the outside so he can come in if the weather turns bad.

19 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:46:26am

re: #12 darthstar

What caused the flare up on the plane, anyway? Spontaneous combustion?

The Romney family has a problem with pants catching fire.

20 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:46:39am

re: #2 Lidane

Sure, let's add oxygen to a fire. Great idea.

Also, to paraphrase Matt Yglesias, how does opening the windows help during a fire on a plane? What are you going to do, jump out?

He misspoke. He doesn't want to open the windows to get more oxygen into the plane, he wants to have all the oxygen sucked out so that the fire dies. Oh, and the passengers too.

21 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:46:41am

I SO cannot wait for the debates.

22 DelusionDeluge  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:46:58am

Cool, Romney's second LMFAO airplane moment.

23 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:47:53am

re: #21 CuriousLurker

I SO cannot wait for the debates.

I'm looking forward to the Daily Show.

24 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:47:56am

I still can't help but think of that now immortal campaign stop of Bush Sr, who was absolutely astounded by a barcode reader at the checkout line in 1992, when they'd been in use since the 70s. It's little bits like this that make the voters wonder "How did this moron ever get anywhere? Has he ever stepped foot outside his little cocoon?"

25 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:48:15am

I wonder if Mitt has a new NASA administrator in mind? Secretary of the Air Force?

26 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:48:34am

re: #13 lawhawk

Well, you'd need supplemental oxygen at 30k, but if you opened the window at 30k, it would be coming in at whatever speed the plane was flying at the time (which could be as much as 600 mph or more).

That's a stiff breeze. But at first there would be the outrushing air from the pressurized cabin. Just for a second.

27 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:48:46am

re: #16 erik_t

The solution to the problem of a fire is... more oxygen? Does Mitt know how fires work?

I'm sure it was a lower or middle class fire and that upper class oxygen would have been too rich for it.
///

28 Mattand  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:48:55am

re: #21 CuriousLurker

I SO cannot wait for the debates.

LOL.

You know what's going to happen, though? Just like Bush and Palin, everyone is setting the bar so low, all Mitt has to do is stand there and not wet himself. And then everyone will talk about how well he did.

29 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:49:15am

re: #26 wrenchwench

That's a stiff breeze. But at first there would be the outrushing air from the pressurized cabin. Just for a second.

And your body going through the window like play dough.

30 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:49:16am

re: #26 wrenchwench

That's a stiff breeze. But at first there would be the outrushing air from the pressurized cabin. Just for a second.

Offshoring Outsourcing air.

31 Mentis Fugit  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:49:37am

re: #9 wrenchwench

There isn't all that much oxygen at 30,000 feet.

There doesn't seem to be that much oxygen getting to Romney's brain at sea level.

32 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:49:38am

re: #21 CuriousLurker

I SO cannot wait for the debates.

Yeah, the Obama campaign's been trying to kill Willard with kindness lately, in order to play down debate expectations. Openly remarking about how much "experience" he's got due to debating in the Republican primaries.

33 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:49:45am

Mitt Romney obviously never saw the movie Goldfinger.

34 Mattand  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:50:41am

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney obviously never saw the movie Goldfinger.

Yeah, because why he would watch a movie about a poor person like Aurich Goldfinger?

35 Lidane  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:50:46am

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney obviously never saw the movie Goldfinger.

Or the TV show Lost.

36 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:51:32am
37 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:51:54am

re: #28 Mattand

LOL.

You know what's going to happen, though? Just like Bush and Palin, everyone is setting the bar so low, all Mitt has to do is stand there and not wet himself. And then everyone will talk about how well he did.

The Obama camp is aware of this, and they're playing up Mitt's more frequent debate experience (20+ GOP debates in the last year) to show that he should be far more prepared than the President. Pretty funny shit, if you ask me. Romney will be loaded with attacks, and I'm sure President Obama will have replies for most of them at the ready.

38 nines09  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:52:08am

re: #1 Charles Johnson

He's a box of rocks. A bag of hammers. The Poster Boy for all things removed from reality.

39 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:52:24am

re: #36 Varek Raith

Image: B737-200-Aloha-Hawaii.jpg

Boeing builds 'em tough.

40 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:52:40am

re: #29 darthstar

And your body going through the window like play dough.

Not if you leave your seat belt on like they tell you.

41 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:53:12am

re: #40 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Not if you leave your seat belt on like they tell you.

The seat goes out the window with you.

42 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:53:42am

re: #36 Varek Raith

Image: B737-200-Aloha-Hawaii.jpg

They were at 25,000 feet when that happened if I recall.

43 AK-47%  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:53:48am

Does Mitt also understand the concept of opening and closing windows as it apples to submarines as well?

44 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:53:54am

re: #1 Charles Johnson

You know, I'm starting to get the feeling that Mitt Romney really isn't very smart.

I said exactly that to my wife.

She wouldn't believe that he even actually said it until I sent her the link to the LAT story. She was convinced it was from The Onion.

45 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:54:36am

re: #44 makeitstop

I said exactly that to my wife.

She wouldn't believe that he even actually said it until I sent her the link to the LAT story. She was convinced it was from The Onion.

Maybe he is trying to set up a competing paper?

46 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:54:39am

By the way, do they have to power down the Romneys during the first and last ten minutes of every flight or are they left running?

47 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:54:47am

re: #41 Sheila Brovlofski

The seat goes out the window with you.

For a square foot window, we're only talking about a thousand pounds of force or so. The sucking-out-the-window thing is a bit overplayed.

48 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:54:47am

re: #43 AK-47%

Does Mitt also understand the concept of opening and closing windows as it apples to submarines as well?

Or a spacecraft?

...

49 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:55:30am

re: #13 lawhawk

Well, you'd need supplemental oxygen at 30k, but if you opened the window at 30k, it would be coming in at whatever speed the plane was flying at the time (which could be as much as 600 mph or more).

About 50% of the air on large jetliners comes from the outside.

[Link: www.airlinesafety.com...]

Our airplanes typically provide ventilation of 13 to 20 cubic feet per minute (cfm) of air per occupant. Outside air typically makes up half of the total air circulation – 6.5 to 10 cfm – while the remaining air is highly filtered recirculated air.

They use compressors in the engines to ventilate the cabin with outside air. Smaller planes may or may not be able to ventilate the cabin with outside air depending on the plane and operating altitude.

50 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:56:35am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

So we need air compressor window units. . .then everyone is happy edited to add //////

51 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:56:45am

re: #23 darthstar

I'm looking forward to the Daily Show.

Ditto!

re: #28 Mattand

LOL.

You know what's going to happen, though? Just like Bush and Palin, everyone is setting the bar so low, all Mitt has to do is stand there and not wet himself. And then everyone will talk about how well he did.

LOL, you've got a point there.

re: #32 Targetpractice

Yeah, the Obama campaign's been trying to kill Willard with kindness lately, in order to play down debate expectations. Openly remarking about how much "experience" he's got due to debating in the Republican primaries.

I have a feeling it's gonna get brutal.

52 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:57:10am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

They use compressors in the engines to ventilate the cabin with outside air. Smaller planes may or may not be able to ventilate the cabin with outside air depending on the plane and operating altitude.

Any pressurized aircraft is taking in outside air. Sealed tubes are not a healthy place to be.

53 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:57:20am

re: #51 CuriousLurker

Surely you can't be serious. . . .:)

55 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:58:55am

re: #47 erik_t

For a square foot window, we're only talking about a thousand pounds of force or so. The sucking-out-the-window thing is a bit overplayed.

Maybe not.

56 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:59:55am

You know, in a few short decades later, it doesn't seem so bad that Quayle added an e to potato. . .smh

57 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 11:59:58am

Romney 2012: Tax cuts for every millionaire, sliding windows on every plane.

58 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:00:21pm

re: #43 AK-47%

Does Mitt also understand the concept of opening and closing windows as it apples to submarines as well?

I heard he was wondering why they don't build them with screen doors, 'cause y'know, it gets all stuffy down there under the ocean.

59 Spocomptonite  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:01:28pm

Romney sounds like he'd also believe fan death.

Does Romney seriously not comprehend that planes are pressurized, and understand what that means and why they're like that? Because... dayum that stupid burns.

60 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:02:13pm

re: #58 CuriousLurker

Ok to keep it real- One summer night, after a storm, my side of the street was without power, but the street over was not (grid thing maybe?) I saw lights on at those houses and my first thought was "I wonder if they would let me borrow a lamp" Doh! Of course, that is just one of the reasons I am not running this year:)

61 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:02:57pm

re: #60 DisturbedEma

Hahahaha!

62 The Left  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:03:00pm

re: #60 DisturbedEma

That's a cute story!

63 DelusionDeluge  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:04:02pm

Is that the Romneys' dog on the plane's wing?

64 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:04:48pm

re: #62 The Left

Sadly, not even my stupidest moment- that would have to be when the tornado sirens were going off and as I was getting the kids and dogs down to the basement the land line rang. . .and I answered it and APOLOGIZED to the Mells Nargo (we have a negative history) for not being able to take the call, because you know, the tree in my front yard was tipping

65 Destro  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:05:00pm

re: #19 Charles Johnson

The Romney family has a problem with pants catching fire.

That is Late Night Talk show level funny. Well done, Sir!

66 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:05:11pm

re: #63 DelusionDeluge

OH SNAP!!!!!!

67 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:05:23pm

re: #63 DelusionDeluge

Is that the Romney's dog on the plane's wing?

Hey now, be more respectful, he's "Congressman Ryan" to you.

///

68 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:06:02pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

HELL YA! Awesome!

69 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:07:13pm

747's have windows that open
Boeing Training Video - Open Window

70 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:08:33pm

re: #69 Killgore Trout

747's have windows that open
Boeing Training Video - Open Window

[Embedded content]

Key thing being safe altitude and speed.
Even then you don't want to do that with a freaking fire on board.

71 DisturbedEma  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:09:58pm
72 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:10:47pm

re: #69 Killgore Trout

747's have windows that open
Boeing Training Video - Open Window

[Embedded content]

Looks like it's in the cockpit next to the pilot, not somewhere that a panicky passenger could reach it.

73 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:12:36pm

re: #59 Spocomptonite

Romney sounds like he'd also believe fan death.

Does Romney seriously not comprehend that planes are pressurized, and understand what that means and why they're like that? Because... dayum that stupid burns.

That link led me to this, which I should read all of....

74 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:13:17pm

re: #59 Spocomptonite

Romney sounds like he'd also believe fan death.

Does Romney seriously not comprehend that planes are pressurized, and understand what that means and why they're like that? Because... dayum that stupid burns.

If there was such a thing as "fan death" I would be like, so dead by now.

75 Destro  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:13:18pm

re: #69 Killgore Trout

Thanks for reminding me why I hate flyingre: #72 CuriousLurker

Looks like it's in the cockpit next to the pilot, not somewhere that a panicky passenger could reach it.

Yea, that's all fine and good - but what if you need to open a window and shoot at the gremlin on the wing? See #3

76 Lidane  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:16:10pm
77 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:16:18pm

You wouldn't get sucked out from an open window. But all your oxygen would and all your papers would. I mean, that's the basic thingy here, is that the pressure outside is lower so it's going to suck the air out, you can't get oxygen from a lower-pressure place.

If you're flying low, I guess you could open the window but it's kind of a meh because you're then feeding oxygen to the fire too.

I think the captains window opens on large jet airliners as an escape hatch, but you wouldn't open it in flight.

Anyway, it's not dangerous that the windows on airplanes don't open.

78 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:16:19pm

re: #70 Varek Raith

Key thing being safe altitude and speed.
Even then you don't want to do that with a freaking fire on board.

Open Flightdeck Windows For Smoke Evacuation?

General consensus is it's a last resort. Some large planes also have a special smoke ventilation system that can be used while the cabin is still pressurized.

79 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:17:28pm

I don't get why you're trashing Mitt. The windows on this plane would open.

80 Mattand  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:18:21pm

re: #72 CuriousLurker

Looks like it's in the cockpit next to the pilot, not somewhere that a panicky passenger could reach it.

How about the Magical Balance Fairy?

81 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:19:37pm

re: #69 Killgore Trout

747's have windows that open
Boeing Training Video - Open Window

[Embedded content]

The 747 is the only model that they didn't show in that video.

82 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:19:54pm

re: #79 Shiplord Kirel

But then the snakes and Focke-Wulfs can get in...

83 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:20:21pm

re: #75 Destro

Thanks for reminding me why I hate flyingre: #72 CuriousLurker

Yea, that's all fine and good - but what if you need to open a window and shoot at the gremlin on the wing? See #3

Wing mounted turrets.

84 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:20:21pm

re: #80 Mattand

How about the Magical Balance Fairy?

If the MBF is out on the wing, I want a window I can open so I can get a clean shot at it.

85 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:21:31pm

re: #77 Obdicut

You wouldn't get sucked out from an open window. But all your oxygen would and all your papers would. I mean, that's the basic thingy here, is that the pressure outside is lower so it's going to suck the air out, you can't get oxygen from a lower-pressure place.

If you're flying low, I guess you could open the window but it's kind of a meh because you're then feeding oxygen to the fire too.

I think the captains window opens on large jet airliners as an escape hatch, but you wouldn't open it in flight.

Anyway, it's not dangerous that the windows on airplanes don't open.

I think that window in the cockpit is also for use in talking with ground and maintenance crew while the plane is on the ground.

86 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:21:45pm

re: #81 wrenchwench

The 747 is the only model that they didn't show in that video.

Ah, I just noticed that from the link at #78. The 747 is the one with no opening windows but it has a special smoke ventilation system.

87 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:22:58pm

re: #69 Killgore Trout

747's have windows that open
Boeing Training Video - Open Window

[Embedded content]

That aside, it doesn't make this comment any less stupid and wrong.

you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem. So it’s very dangerous.

88 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:23:07pm

re: #77 Obdicut

You wouldn't get sucked out from an open window. But all your oxygen would and all your papers would. I mean, that's the basic thingy here, is that the pressure outside is lower so it's going to suck the air out, you can't get oxygen from a lower-pressure place.

If you're flying low, I guess you could open the window but it's kind of a meh because you're then feeding oxygen to the fire too.

I think the captains window opens on large jet airliners as an escape hatch, but you wouldn't open it in flight.

Anyway, it's not dangerous that the windows on airplanes don't open.

Killgore's video shows a window being opened for the purpose of being able to see when the front window is obscured. But they depressurized the plane first, and mentioned "at a safe altitude and airspeed...". I think it's a 777.

89 blueraven  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:23:44pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Ah, I just noticed that from the link at #78. The 747 is the one with no opening windows but it has a special smoke ventilation system.

A smoke ventilation system is a good thing. Opening a window during a fire aboard is not so good, as it could just feed the fire.

90 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:26:25pm

re: #77 Obdicut

You wouldn't get sucked out from an open window. But all your oxygen would and all your papers would. I mean, that's the basic thingy here, is that the pressure outside is lower so it's going to suck the air out, you can't get oxygen from a lower-pressure place.

If you're flying low, I guess you could open the window but it's kind of a meh because you're then feeding oxygen to the fire too.

I think the captains window opens on large jet airliners as an escape hatch, but you wouldn't open it in flight.

Anyway, it's not dangerous that the windows on airplanes don't open.

Actually a person can get pulled right out. This Is Your Captain Screaming...

91 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:26:36pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

You know, I'm starting to get the feeling that Mitt Romney really isn't very smart.

Explosive decompression at 30,000 feet is teh awesome.

Just ask Payne Stewart.

You might need a psychic to do it, however....

92 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:27:01pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

You know, I'm starting to get the feeling that Mitt Romney really isn't very smart.

Obama is an intellectual. Romney is not.

93 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:27:22pm

re: #83 Varek Raith

Wing mounted turrets.

Go retractable or go home.

94 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:28:35pm

re: #77 Obdicut

Yes, you can get sucked out of a window. Small holes (like from a bullet), however, do not cause catastrophic decompression.

95 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:28:38pm

re: #93 erik_t

Go retractable or go home.

Funny thing is they ended up yanking those out before the B-36 was even half through its service life. Thing flew so high that most of the fighters of the day couldn't intercept it, and those that could would have been chewed to bits by the tail guns. So they did away with the turrets to save weight.

96 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:28:49pm

re: #90 Daniel Ballard

Actually a person can get pulled right out. This Is Your Captain Screaming...

Jesus. BUt I was imagining the much smaller windows on smaller planes, which are also moving slower. But man... that would freaking suck.

97 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:29:08pm

re: #9 wrenchwench

There isn't all that much oxygen at 30,000 feet.

Hey, it's still at ~20% there. That's plenty.

Sort of.

98 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:29:21pm

re: #84 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Wait, lemme get the door for ya...

99 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:30:14pm

re: #95 Targetpractice

And B-17s would have actually been better off without the guns, could have gone faster and higher.

100 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:30:31pm

re: #90 Daniel Ballard

Actually a person can get pulled right out... This Is Your Captain Screaming...

o_O

101 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:32:54pm

re: #99 Obdicut

And B-17s would have actually been better off without the guns, could have gone faster and higher.

That, I think, may be a stretch. A small amount of firepower at least keeps the other guy honest, and the B-17 was dramatically slower than then-modern fighters. Note that the B-36 (and indeed, many later types) preserved the tail gun, covering the cone of most likely intercepts.

102 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:33:07pm

Two new polls in North Carolina have Obama up now. And the wingnuts can't really complain about "bias", as one of the polls is a confirmed Republican-leaning firm (Civitas) and the other is one that I've seen to have a slight right-leaning bias (Purple Strategies)

103 Gus  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:33:20pm

What a bozo.

104 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:33:59pm

re: #13 lawhawk

Well, you'd need supplemental oxygen at 30k, but if you opened the window at 30k, it would be coming in at whatever speed the plane was flying at the time (which could be as much as 600 mph or more).

Air speeding by would likely act as an atomizer, reducing the pressure inside, assuming the pressure outside the plane was the same as inside the plane. Normally the pressure inside a plane at 30k is considerably higher than it is outside.

105 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:34:09pm

re: #99 Obdicut

And B-17s would have actually been better off without the guns, could have gone faster and higher.

There's the legend of the YB-40, which was a hare-brained scheme to turn a handful of B-17s into heavily armed escorts for their bomber brethren. They doubled up almost all the guns, slapped on armored, and turned the bomb bay into ammunition storage for all the guns. And they worked great all the way up til the bomb run, when the bombers gained speed and altitude due to losing their bombloads. The YB-40s just ended up getting chewed to pieces.

106 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:35:24pm

re: #90 Daniel Ballard

Actually a person can get pulled right out. This Is Your Captain Screaming...

He was 'sucked out' not 'pulled out'...he was 'pulled back in' by the crew. That negates this argument.
//

107 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:35:47pm

re: #102 JamesWI

Two new polls in North Carolina have Obama up now. And the wingnuts can't really complain about "bias", as one of the polls is a confirmed Republican-leaning firm (Civitas) and the other is one that I've seen to have a slight right-leaning bias (Purple Strategies)

Yeah, it looks like the Obama bounce has solidified in the toss-up states and kept him in a comfortable lead over Romney. Which is what's got pundits absolutely confuzzled, because the national tracking polls are all over the place, Rasmussen and Gallup being the most prominent examples.

108 AK-47%  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:35:52pm

re: #69 Killgore Trout

747's have windows that open
Boeing Training Video - Open Window

[Embedded content]

Yep, and right there in the manual it read in bold letters: "Don't open the window above 30,000 feet!"

109 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:36:38pm

re: #106 darthstar

He was 'sucked out' not 'pulled out'...he was 'pulled back in' by the crew. That negates this argument.
//

This is why I won't step foot on a plane.
:P

110 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:36:44pm

re: #101 erik_t

That, I think, may be a stretch. A small amount of firepower at least keeps the other guy honest

The figures on kills even claimed by B17s are tiny. And there was a lot of friendly fire from them, too. There is no real way for a bomber to actually protect itself from a more nimble fighter. Fighter escorts help, and the biggest thing that helps is maneuverability and speed, which would be increased a lot if you take out the weight of all that gun and ammo and mechanisms.

From what I've read, I'd think a tail weapon is good, but it's less about getting direct kills as making it more awkward for the enemy fighters and giving your escort time to deal.

111 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:36:47pm

re: #108 AK-47%

Yep, and right there in the manual it read in bold letters: "Don't open the window while in flight!"

If you need to pee, open one of the doors, but be sure you hold onto the plane with one hand.

112 Sionainn  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:37:16pm
113 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:37:25pm

re: #109 Varek Raith

This is why I won't step foot on a plane.
:P

Afraid it wouldn't be satisfying?

114 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:37:49pm

re: #113 darthstar

Afraid it wouldn't be satisfying?

Yeah, sure.
XD

115 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:38:27pm

re: #91 celticdragon

Explosive decompression at 30,000 feet is teh awesome.

Just ask Payne Stewart.

You might need a psychic to do it, however....

That link doesn't say "explosive." According to Wikipedia, the crash investigation wasn't able to determine whether the decompression was explosive or not.

116 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:39:15pm

Heh,
Did anyone really know Romney at Harvard ?
Transcripts...
LO F-ing L !!!

117 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:39:35pm

re: #110 Obdicut

The figures on kills even claimed by B17s are tiny. And there was a lot of friendly fire from them, too. There is no real way for a bomber to actually protect itself from a more nimble fighter. Fighter escorts help, and the biggest thing that helps is maneuverability and speed, which would be increased a lot if you take out the weight of all that gun and ammo and mechanisms.

From what I've read, I'd think a tail weapon is good, but it's less about getting direct kills as making it more awkward for the enemy fighters and giving your escort time to deal.

That's all quite correct; I don't see any contradiction between what we both said.

118 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:40:25pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

About 50% of the air on large jetliners comes from the outside.

[Link: www.airlinesafety.com...]

They use compressors in the engines to ventilate the cabin with outside air. Smaller planes may or may not be able to ventilate the cabin with outside air depending on the plane and operating altitude.

The problem isn't the source of the air, but the pressure differential between the inside of the plane, which is probably around 10 or 11 lbs/in2 and the outside which is around 4 or 5 lbs/in2.

The air at 25000 has the same percentage of oxygen the air farther down does, but our lungs are unable to pull the oxygen from the air with lower pressure.

119 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:42:41pm

Bwahaha:

120 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:42:51pm

re: #76 Lidane

[Embedded content]

What?

121 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:47:04pm

re: #110 Obdicut

The figures on kills even claimed by B17s are tiny. And there was a lot of friendly fire from them, too. There is no real way for a bomber to actually protect itself from a more nimble fighter. Fighter escorts help, and the biggest thing that helps is maneuverability and speed, which would be increased a lot if you take out the weight of all that gun and ammo and mechanisms.

From what I've read, I'd think a tail weapon is good, but it's less about getting direct kills as making it more awkward for the enemy fighters and giving your escort time to deal.

The 17 couldn't fly high enough or fast enough with a bombload that it could avoid interception. Not even the 29 flew high enough that it could avoid interception, and it was flying high enough that pressurization was a necessity. No, the 17 was loaded with all those guns because that was the only thing that kept the slaughter from being a rout. Of the bombers of the era, only the 36 ever flew high enough that interception by anything other than a jet fighter was impossible. Scratch that, there were a handful of German piston engine fighters that could do it, but they'd have been at the absolute limit of their performance just to reach the 36's cruising altitude.

122 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:47:40pm

re: #117 erik_t

That's all quite correct; I don't see any contradiction between what we both said.

Yep. The "Flying Fortress" concept is early-30s. At that point a lot of fighters were still biplanes and/or open cockpit. Bombers were coming out that were as fast (and sometimes faster) than the available point interceptors. And detection networks at that time were primarily visual. Thus you get adages from that time such as "the bomber always gets through" since it would be expected that bomber raids could come in and hit targets before intercepting fighters could react in number.

Plus you have to remember that the B-17 and B-24 initial design specs were not for a strategic bomber - they were essentially specs for a land-based very long range maritime patrol bomber. Carry a couple thousand pounds of bombs a long way in order to attack and sink ships. For that you'd want a more comprehensive defense armament to fight off small numbers of fighters while running patrols or encountering something.

The shift into defensive formation flying, strategic bombing of industrial targets, etc. was in the background of the immediate demands. And as World War II got rolling a lot of assumptions about air power from the 30s proved to be very wrong. Faster fighters (and heavier to carry armament that could shred bombers) plus radar (both for raid detection and gun aiming) had a lot to do with it.

On a secondary historical note an interesting area to look at is the electronic and material war between the RAF and Germany (mainly Luftwaffe) during the night bombing campaign between 1942 and 1944.

123 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:48:15pm

Best way to be ignored, get all sciency.

124 JamesWI  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:48:21pm

So, someone found this conservative "polling" site that takes all the polls that have Obama winning and changes the sample by taking out Democrats and adding Republicans in order to give Romney a big lead in every poll: Unskewed Polls

Now someone has created a parody twitter account of the site, but the thing is, he/she is starting to get a number of conservative followers who think it's real, even after seeing tweets like this:

Too funny.

125 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:49:19pm

re: #123 reflections of a redneck

Best way to be ignored, get all sciency.

It's because of your nic.
:P

126 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:50:26pm

re: #121 Targetpractice

Higher and faster still gives you better odds even if you get intercepted; the enemy fighters have less time n you. Have you read Yeager's autobigoraphy? I think he makes a good case for what I'm saying there. If not him, then it's in A War to Be Won.

127 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:50:40pm

re: #125 Varek Raith

It's because of your nic.
:P

That would be "Reflections of a Vampire Redneck".
;)

128 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:52:53pm

WHAT A CRAB

129 drool  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:52:56pm

re: #16 erik_t

@ Eric. You will actually get less oxygen due to the altitude. In freighters the standard fire suppression technique is to depressurize the plane. Tough luck if you're an animal riding in the back.

130 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:53:40pm

re: #126 Obdicut

And soon I think we will have the first time for manned fighters to go up against armed drones like the Predator. This could happen in Pakistan or Syria any day now. Predator or Global Hawk is going to need a rear facing camera.

131 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:54:25pm

re: #128 Sheila Brovlofski

Brings to mind this, which could be retooled as an all-purpose reply to Trump tweets:

132 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:54:28pm

re: #128 Sheila Brovlofski

WHAT A CRAB

[Embedded content]

I think Limbaugh is pushing that idea on a daily basis.

133 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:54:51pm

re: #115 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

That link doesn't say "explosive." According to Wikipedia, the crash investigation wasn't able to determine whether the decompression was explosive or not.

From what I understand, there was (probably) a critical failure in an air line in the cockpit...and it was very, very fast. Nobody got to their oxygen masks. With everybody passed out and asphyxiating/freezing to death, the airplane started porpoising according to the last command put into the autopilot while it was climbing. It would climb past the envelope, fail to sustain altitude and then try to climb again until it finally ran out of fuel while the F-16 pilots watched helplessly.

134 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:55:01pm

re: #128 Sheila Brovlofski

WHAT A CRAB

[Embedded content]

Smells like victory.

135 drool  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:55:29pm

re: #89 blueraven

787 windows don't open either.

136 drool  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:57:51pm

re: #133 celticdragon

It would likely be something like a duct failure causing a rapid decompression and nobody got to oxygen fast enough. It happened where I work some years back. Pilots got on oxygen fast enough but a couple of people didn't and passed out.

137 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:58:24pm

re: #126 Obdicut

Higher and faster still gives you better odds even if you get intercepted; the enemy fighters have less time n you. Have you read Yeager's autobigoraphy? I think he makes a good case for what I'm saying there. If not him, then it's in A War to Be Won.

Not to knock Gen. Yeager, but the man was a fighter pilot, to whom speed is life. And in bombers, speed and altitude usually come at the expense of range and armament. The Mosquito certainly flew fast enough and high enough that it couldn't be easily intercepted, but it also could only carry a maximum 4,000lb bombload. By no stretch of the imagination was it a strategic bomber.

138 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:59:37pm

re: #136 drool

It would likely be something like a duct failure causing a rapid decompression and nobody got to oxygen fast enough. It happened where I work some years back. Pilots got on oxygen fast enough but a couple of people didn't and passed out.

Thanks. "Duct" was the word I wanted. I could not think of it for some reason. meh. Considering I repaired/replaced dozens of ducts on commercial aircraft...

139 erik_t  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 12:59:38pm

re: #137 Targetpractice

The Mosquito certainly flew fast enough and high enough that it couldn't be easily intercepted, but it also could only carry a maximum 4,000lb bombload. By no stretch of the imagination was it a strategic bomber.

In fairness, the B-17's realistic bombload was little higher.

140 darthstar  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:00:00pm
141 celticdragon  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:00:18pm

re: #137 Targetpractice

Not to knock Gen. Yeager, but the man was a fighter pilot, to whom speed is life. And in bombers, speed and altitude usually come at the expense of range and armament. The Mosquito certainly flew fast enough and high enough that it couldn't be easily intercepted, but it also could only carry a maximum 4,000lb bombload. By no stretch of the imagination was it a strategic bomber.

But it could really tear some shit up when you loaded the nose with machine guns!

142 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:01:09pm

re: #139 erik_t

In fairness, the B-17's realistic bombload was little higher.

It could haul double, but only at the expense of range. Hence the reliance on huge swarms of them for attacks.

143 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:01:40pm

re: #140 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Things that make you go - hmmm: If the fakes are made in the same factory, are they really fakes?

144 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:02:49pm

re: #137 Targetpractice

He also shot down a lot of bombers, so he does have the knowledge of which are harder to attack. There was an actual study done by the Army during WWII that concluded that B17s were over-armed and losing weight would help. I just checked, and it is in A War to Be Won

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

I haven't seen the actual study, so I don't know their rationale.

145 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:02:55pm
146 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:03:03pm
The reason Romney has a strong, 13-point edge among all white working class voters, according to the P.R.R.I. findings, is that in the South his margin is huge. In the rest of the country, the white working class is much more closely divided.

Among southern working class whites, Romney leads by 40 points, 62-22, an extraordinary gap.

[Link: campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com...]


The South is, once again, a terrible racist place

147 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:04:03pm

re: #101 erik_t

That, I think, may be a stretch. A small amount of firepower at least keeps the other guy honest, and the B-17 was dramatically slower than then-modern fighters. Note that the B-36 (and indeed, many later types) preserved the tail gun, covering the cone of most likely intercepts.

Which is why the chin turret was introduced on the B17F (I recall). Luftwaffe pilots preferred the head on run, because that's where the pilots are.

The B17s and 24s still got slaughtered until the Mustang was introduced though.

148 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:05:16pm

re: #110 Obdicut

Perhaps the better stat (if one could ever get it) is what effect the guns had on the accuracy and kill rate of the attacking fighters. I'd just guess that sans the guns, the planes would have been shot up enough to fail to complete the mission far more often.

149 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:05:16pm
150 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:07:02pm

re: #144 Obdicut

He also shot down a lot of bombers, so he does have the knowledge of which are harder to attack. There was an actual study done by the Army during WWII that concluded that B17s were over-armed and losing weight would help. I just checked, and it is in A War to Be Won

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

I haven't seen the actual study, so I don't know their rationale.

As noted above, the 17 was an aircraft from an earlier era, fighting a war it hadn't really been designed for. In many ways, the 29 would have had an easier time of it, though at the cost of lower accuracy due to the crosswinds encountered at that altitude. Wasn't til later in the war that the Germans began developing the sort of fighters that could give the 29 pause, and by that time their manufacturing capacity was such that they could only produce limited numbers of said fighters.

151 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:09:11pm

re: #149 Sheila Brovlofski

[Embedded content]

Lulz

152 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:14:14pm

re: #122 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

On a secondary historical note an interesting area to look at is the electronic and material war between the RAF and Germany (mainly Luftwaffe) during the night bombing campaign between 1942 and 1944.

That is indeed a fascinating subject. The first electronic war; measures, counter-measures, counter-counter-measures, and Schräge Musik.

One German pilot knocked down a dozen bombers in a day; seven between midnight and dawn, five more between dusk and midnight.

153 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:25:39pm

re: #150 Targetpractice

As noted above, the 17 was an aircraft from an earlier era, fighting a war it hadn't really been designed for. In many ways, the 29 would have had an easier time of it, though at the cost of lower accuracy due to the crosswinds encountered at that altitude. Wasn't til later in the war that the Germans began developing the sort of fighters that could give the 29 pause, and by that time their manufacturing capacity was such that they could only produce limited numbers of said fighters.

I'm of the opinion that if Hitler hadn't been such a moron when it came to fighting wars, and he was despite his embracing of modern armoured warfare, Germany could have fought the Allies to a standstill. The Me262 could have been in squadron service a good two years earlier than it was. They could have had air-to-air, surface-to-air and smart bombs in service about the same time, and they had developed a working ATGM by 1945. People like Guderian and von Manstein could have had more authority and that nutbar corporal could have kept out of their way.

Oh, and he could have treated the Ukrainians, Poles, Lithuanians etc like people and they would have cheerfully fought the Russians for him.

Thank God none of that happened.

154 sunnygal  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:41:27pm

Dennis Miller, the not-funny comedian was at the fundraiser. He finally said something funny. What? It wasn't Miller? It wasn't a joke?

Oh dear.

155 drool  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 1:46:08pm

re: #137 Targetpractice

The Mosquito had another asset. Due to it's wooden airframe it was much tougher to spot on radar.

156 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 2:58:47pm

re: #11 elektramourns

My God, is there no topic, no subject, no idea, this man cannot maim or screw up? What fucking planet does Mitt live on?????

This one:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

157 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 3:44:18pm

I would bet that most people do not even know that commercial aircraft are pressurized. This is a general thing, because what is the percentage of Nerds in the USA? It is a Nerd thing to think in engineering terms. And in fact if you start explaining the atmosphere to most people, they will tell you to stop. It is no big deal not to understand why the windows don't open. They could, but it would be too complicated and dangerous, and too heavy, probably.

158 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 4:33:03pm

re: #157 Ojoe

I would bet that most people do not even know that commercial aircraft are pressurized. This is a general thing, because what is the percentage of Nerds in the USA? It is a Nerd thing to think in engineering terms. And in fact if you start explaining the atmosphere to most people, they will tell you to stop. It is no big deal not to understand why the windows don't open. They could, but it would be too complicated and dangerous, and too heavy, probably.

Would you expect someone with a JD and a MBA from Harvard to know that?

159 CuriousLurker  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 5:36:30pm

re: #80 Mattand

How about the Magical Balance Fairy?

LOL, missed this earlier. The MBF can go anywhere, any time.

160 Tigger2005  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 5:42:06pm

To be honest, although I initially snickered at this when I read it on an anti-Tea Party sight on FB, and put up my own comment about how dumb it was, I think it's one of those things it's better to let slide than make a big deal out of. People are going to forgive a not-very-carefully-thought-out remark made when a guy is worried about his wife--they're going to sympathize with him. Blowing this out of proportion is counterproductive in that it's not going to convince many undecideds that Romney is dumb, and it gives his supporters something to rally around in his defense ("you have to read the remarks in context, you idiots!"). They can then use this to take attention off Romney's statements that REALLY deserve major attention and criticism, or even claim that ALL his questionable statements have been "taken out of context."

161 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 6:22:55pm

re: #158 BongCrodny

No, you wouldn't expect that.
If they were from M.I.T. you would.
Most people would not know.

What's a Flettner tab? Etc.

162 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 6:48:07pm

re: #161 Ojoe

No, you wouldn't expect that.
If they were from M.I.T. you would.
Most people would not know.

What's a Flettner tab? Etc.

Dude, I'm as dumb as a box of rocks, and I know that aircraft cabins are pressurized.

I'd also expect someone who has likely logged a shitload of air miles to have *some* clue about that sort of thing.

Praise him for his business skills if you want; I've got no problem with that -- but do us all a favor and don't try to explain away stupid.

163 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 7:18:30pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Mitt Romney obviously never saw the movie Goldfinger.

re: #34 Mattand

Yeah, because why he would watch a movie about a poor person like Aurich Goldfinger?

Hey, I resemble that remark! ///

Hey, Mitt, there's a reason why aircraft that are designed to fly above 10,000 feet generally don't have any windows that open...it's called the risk of decompression, explosive or otherwise, at high altitudes.

Idjit...

164 Ojoe  Mon, Sep 24, 2012 7:29:52pm

re: #162 BongCrodny

I think you are quite smarter than the average. Most people are technically very very ignorant in my experience. I'm not talking about Romney one way or another. Just that the geeky people on this site easily assume that other people are geeky too. But they are not.

165 William of Orange  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 8:30:09am

I hope if Romney wins the election he'll modify Airforce One to have opening windows. That will solve America's problem Goldfinger style. And while you're at it, you can also turn it into a convertible...

166 Buck  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 8:34:39am

Once a mask is pulled oxygen production typically lasts only 15 minutes.

He did not mean to question why the windows don't open at 30,000 feet. Once an emergency happens the pilot goes to a lower altitude.

He was speaking as a concerned person who's loved one just went through a life threatening episode.

However if you want to call a Stanford AND Harvard grad stupid, I certainly hope you will let us know your background education.

167 efuseakay  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 8:55:21am

The latest excuse for this latest stupid comment from Mitt:

Oxygen masks only deploy when there's a loss of pressure, so if there's smoke in the cabin, being able to open the windows would cause a loss in cabin pressure. Not only will the oxygen masks deploy, but smoke would also be evacuated from the cabin.

-------

I kid you not.

168 drool  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:01:37am

re: #167 efuseakay

Oxygen masks can be deployed from the flight deck.

There are procedures on some planes for opening doors/windows in flight to evacuate smoke...just not at cruise altitude. It's pretty hairy and last time we did it we screwed up a door.

169 drool  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:02:53am

re: #166 Buck

He is stupid and my education is in aerospace.

170 BillyCrims  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:08:18am

Mitt's father, George, toured Vietnam in 1965. Later, in 1968, he famously stated that he'd been "brainwashed" during that trip and that he no longer supported the Vietnam war.

When the news of this reached Minnesota Senator Eugene McCarthy he quipped that "a light rinse would have sufficed."

Based on this I've always stated that Mitt's not the intellectual giant his father was.

171 Buck  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:11:53am

re: #169 drool

He is stupid and my education is in aerospace.

Says a person who identifies themselves as "drool".

Got it. You're a rocket scientist. Sure thing.

There are procedures on some planes for opening doors/windows in flight to evacuate smoke...just not at cruise altitude.

And that is what Mitt was talking about.

172 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:07:06pm

re: #9 wrenchwench

Of course Romney was joking. When somebody says things that get more and more absurd, sooner or later the penny ought to drop.

But what is this about Romney being stupid? He outsmarted Gov. Perry to win the GOP nomination, dinnit he? But seriously, he earned an MBA at Harvard, and he made a lot of money and he didn't make it Madoff style.

As a Republican, he's condemned to at least sounding stupid on climate science. As a Republican, he's condemned to sounding stupid on every topic when Democrats are listening. But is everybody here sure they could whip him at Scrabble?

173 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:09:45pm

re: #172 lostlakehiker

Of course Romney was joking. When somebody says things that get more and more absurd, sooner or later the penny ought to drop.

But what is this about Romney being stupid? He outsmarted Gov. Perry to win the GOP nomination, dinnit he? But seriously, he earned an MBA at Harvard, and he made a lot of money and he didn't make it Madoff style.

As a Republican, he's condemned to at least sounding stupid on climate science. As a Republican, he's condemned to sounding stupid on every topic when Democrats are listening. But is everybody here sure they could whip him at Scrabble?

That's all Romney does.

Is make jokes.

[Microsoft jingle.]

174 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 9:13:58pm

re: #157 Ojoe

I would bet that most people do not even know that commercial aircraft are pressurized. This is a general thing, because what is the percentage of Nerds in the USA? It is a Nerd thing to think in engineering terms. And in fact if you start explaining the atmosphere to most people, they will tell you to stop. It is no big deal not to understand why the windows don't open. They could, but it would be too complicated and dangerous, and too heavy, probably.

Hard to see how people could not know the cabins were pressurized. If they go skiing, they know that the air in the plane is not so thin as the air on the slopes. If they read stories about climbers on Everest running out of oxygen, and reflect on the fact that Everest is 29000 or so, while the plane flies at over 30000...hmm. Or if they just look out the window and see how dark blue the sky is? Or if they listen, even once, to the announcement made every last time a plane takes off, about what to do in the event of loss of cabin pressure?


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