Infographic: DARVO (The Abusers’ Strategy)

Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender
Images • Views: 45,240

As I’ve noted previously, psychologists have an acronym to describe a very common behavioral strategy used by abusers and bullies, and every day I see examples of this strategy being employed by the Mitt Romney campaign and by the right wing in general. I went looking for an image to illustrate this acronym and didn’t find anything, so I broke out the 200-point Helvetica Bold and made this.

Click to enlarge

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288 comments

1 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 2:42:22pm

The GOP is a shadow of itself projected on a mirror projected back on a blank wall.

2 aagcobb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 2:43:27pm

Based on the polling, it appears most of the electorate is seeing right through the GOP strategy.

3 Kragar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 2:45:15pm
200-point Helvetica Bold

Needs more Comic Sans...

4 erik_t  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 2:47:40pm

re: #3 Kragar

Needs more Comic Sans...

BANNED

5 dragonath  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 2:59:01pm
6 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:00:06pm

It's 5 O'clock. Do you know where Todd Akin is?

7 researchok  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:01:05pm

DARVO is a somewhat more sophisticated version of 'pivot and attack'. Both are easily dispensed with.

The state of politics and political thought today is pitiful.

8 researchok  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:01:39pm

re: #6 Decatur Deb

Hanging upside down from the rafters.

9 Kragar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:02:30pm

re: #7 researchok

DARVO is a somewhat more sophisticated version of 'pivot and attack'. Both are easily dispensed with.

The state of politics and political thought today is pitiful.

Image: 812909-colbert_says_no_u_super.jpg

10 aagcobb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:04:39pm

re: #7 researchok

DARVO is a somewhat more sophisticated version of 'pivot and attack'. Both are easily dispensed with.

The state of politics and political thought today is pitiful.

Yep, the GOP line is so predictable. Today Romney is really winning because the polls are skewed by liberal bias. When he loses, it will be because he wasn't a trooo conservative and voter fraud.

11 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:05:08pm
12 jaunte  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:08:51pm

Hannity: "Democratic-Controlled Senate" Is A "Do-Nothing Chamber."

Doocy: "Democrat-Controlled Senate" Is "The Laziest Senate In Decades."

Breitbart.com: "Obama Was Right About The 'Do-Nothing Congress' -- At Least About The Democrat-Controlled Senate Portion."

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

13 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:10:07pm

re: #12 jaunte

Hannity: "Democratic-Controlled Senate" Is A "Do-Nothing Chamber."

Doocy: "Democrat-Controlled Senate" Is "The Laziest Senate In Decades."

Breitbart.com: "Obama Was Right About The 'Do-Nothing Congress' -- At Least About The Democrat-Controlled Senate Portion."

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Meanwhile, the Farm Bill is still gathering dust because the great and powerful Speaker of the House is scared shitless to bring it up to a vote because he knows there's a good chance his party will shoot it down for not cutting enough away from food stamps.

14 erik_t  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:10:08pm

re: #12 jaunte

Hannity:
Doocy:
Breitbart.com:

I'll give them this: they sure coordinate well.

15 jaunte  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:11:58pm

Business Insider political editor Michael Brendan Dougherty:

I spoke to a Senator earlier this week, and he told me that, a Republican Senator told me that Mitch McConnell has told his conference that ‘We’re not doing anything, we won’t make a single move between now and the election, because any move could be risky, and all of the shit is sliding down on President Obama.’
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

16 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:12:28pm

and mr newton leroy gingrich has turned himself in the foremost practitioner of this technique

17 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:14:41pm

Also this month marked the one year anniversary of the introduce of the American Jobs Act, which the House has sat on despite several economists low-balling the number of jobs it'd create at around 1 million.

And last week, the GOP killed a bipartisan veteran jobs bill on the excuse that they weren't comfortable with how it was being paid for and suggesting it would lead to duplication of effort.

18 aagcobb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:15:46pm

This is funny, the Commissioner of the Lingerie Football League says that the NFL has hired a ref that he fired for poor performance.

19 JamesWI  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:19:45pm

re: #18 aagcobb

This is funny, the Commissioner of the Lingerie Football League says that the NFL has hired a ref that he fired for poor performance.

I think it was more than just one. I think it was an entire crew's worth of referees that weren't competent enough for the lingerie league. The guy who called the touchdown last night (as well as the awful PI call) is a high school ref. What a joke.

20 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:26:12pm

as a non sports fan, i am compelled to deduce that there must be a referee strike

21 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:27:05pm

Charles Johnson used the colors red, white and blag for his "DARVO" poster which is the flag colors of Egypt, Syria, Yemen and Iraq! Clearly this proves that he is an agent for the coming Ottoman Empire!!

22 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:29:17pm

I give such massive non-Fuck about the NFL and their ref issues. Nobody seemed to care that in the Raider game two concussions were received, one pretty serious.

23 jaunte  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:29:56pm

re: #21 Gus

"The most important flag for the Ottomans was the “Sancak-ı Şerif”
[Link: www.hurriyetdailynews.com...]

But this Helvetica is obviously sans-serif.

24 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:31:49pm

re: #12 jaunte

Hannity: "Democratic-Controlled Senate" Is A "Do-Nothing Chamber."

Doocy: "Democrat-Controlled Senate" Is "The Laziest Senate In Decades."

Breitbart.com: "Obama Was Right About The 'Do-Nothing Congress' -- At Least About The Democrat-Controlled Senate Portion."

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

And at the same time they are doing everything they can to usher in a 1000 years of darkness. Man those guys are good.

25 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:33:16pm

I just wanted to repeat this.

26 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:33:19pm

re: #24 Eventual Carrion

And at the same time they are doing everything they can to usher in a 1000 years of darkness. Man those guys are good.

Yeah, you gotta love it. The Democrats are totally destroying the country, but are doing so while refusing to let anything happen.

The mind boggles.

27 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:35:48pm

re: #26 Targetpractice

Yeah, you gotta love it. The Democrats are totally destroying the country, but are doing so while refusing to let anything happen.

The mind boggles.

They make it look effortless.

28 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:36:36pm

re: #17 Targetpractice

Also this month marked the one year anniversary of the introduce of the American Jobs Act, which the House has sat on despite several economists low-balling the number of jobs it'd create at around 1 million.

And last week, the GOP killed a bipartisan veteran jobs bill on the excuse that they weren't comfortable with how it was being paid for and suggesting it would lead to duplication of effort.

I'm gonna go outside and spit on the ground now. Sons of bitches.

29 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:36:45pm

And how soon until this strategy reaches its logical conclusion?

Davros

30 BongCrodny  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:37:47pm

re: #18 aagcobb

This is funny, the Commissioner of the Lingerie Football League says that the NFL has hired a ref that he fired for poor performance.

Heck, I'm wondering if some of them weren't professional wrestling referees.

31 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:38:41pm

re: #10 aagcobb

re: #26 Targetpractice

Yeah, you gotta love it. The Democrats are totally destroying the country, but are doing so while refusing to let anything happen.

The mind boggles.

This describes it for me:
Image: my-mind-is-full-of.jpg

32 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:41:57pm

re: #5 dragonath

lol what in the hell is wrong with this person

33 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:42:04pm

Oh, I see they're pulling from the, "I know you are but what am I?" school of thought.
Do they know that it doesn't work on the playground either?

34 Varek Raith  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:42:53pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Image: NO_U.jpg

Image: nou2.gif

35 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:45:21pm

re: #34 Varek Raith

Image: nou2.gif

Satanic!

36 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:47:40pm

re: #34 Varek Raith

Image: nou2.gif

How deliciously evil nerdy!!!
-Stewie Griffin

37 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:48:47pm

re: #34 Varek Raith

It's like a human centipede...

38 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:50:07pm

from electoral-vote.com

Ryan Became Romney Instead of Romney Becoming Ryan

Conservatives who cheered Mitt Romney's selection of Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) as his running mate in the hope this indicated a more aggressive, more conservative stance for Romney have been sorely disappointed. They had expected Ryan's bold style to rub off on Romney. Instead it is the other way: Ryan has become muted and vague, like Romney. The problem is certainly not Ryan. All vice-presidential candidates know who the boss is and Ryan is surely doing precisely what his boss wants: look sharp but be vague about all the details.

In the six weeks since he was tapped, Ryan hasn't given a single national press conference although he has done interviews for local media outlets--which typically don't push the interviewee very hard. His stump speech rarely mentions his plan to replace Medicare with a voucher system. Instead he attacks President Obama and plays up his bow-hunting abilities and working-class background. None of this is the red meat conservatives had expected, but one sees Team Romney's fingerprints all over it. The one time Ryan did talk about Medicare, at the annual AARP convention, he was roundly booed. To make things even worse, he was supposed to put Wisconsin in play, but our current average of six recent polls gives Obama a lead there of 51% to 45%.

In fact, his net effect on the ticket is probably negative. A new Ipsos poll shows that 44% think Ryan is not qualified to be President while 29% think he is. Given that in the absence of an evenly divided Senate, the Vice President's only job is to call the White House every morning at 8 A.M. to see if the President is still alive, this is clearly not a good sign. But there is still hope for Ryan. Only 56% of registered voters even know who he is.

39 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:50:42pm

re: #34 Varek Raith

Image: nou2.gif

doan be freekin me out like that d000d!

40 bratwurst  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:50:57pm

A holiday message for American Jews from Fox analyst Bill Cowan:

Jews Who Vote For Obama "Can't Be As Close To Israel As We'd Like To Think"

Anyone who calls the Prime Minister of Israel "Netan-YAY-hoo" may not be as close to Israel as we'd like to think either.

41 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:53:54pm

re: #40 bratwurst

WTF is that supposed to mean?

42 Lidane  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:54:19pm

re: #5 dragonath

What Allen West Would Say At The United Nations

A war criminal says what?

43 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:55:05pm

re: #40 bratwurst

A holiday message for American Jews from Fox analyst Bill Cowan:

Jews Who Vote For Obama "Can't Be As Close To Israel As We'd Like To Think"

Why does BIll Cowan like to think about Jews being close to Israel? I don't even know what that means.

44 bratwurst  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:55:11pm

re: #41 Kronocide

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Variation on the classic theme "Jews don't know what is good for them".

45 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:55:40pm

re: #38 engineer cat

Paul Ryan has been assimilated into the Romney-collective.

46 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:56:39pm

re: #41 Kronocide

WTF is that supposed to mean?

My takeaway is that Cowan is saying that Jews aren't "real" Jews if they support President Obama.

47 Lidane  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:56:40pm

re: #25 Gus

Also:

48 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:57:10pm

re: #44 bratwurst

Variation on the classic theme "Jews don't know what is good for them".

Oh, gotcha. I wonder how many times that it is said, comes from a Christian.

49 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:57:42pm

re: #40 bratwurst

A holiday message for American Jews from Fox analyst Bill Cowan:

Jews Who Vote For Obama "Can't Be As Close To Israel As We'd Like To Think"

I believe Bill Cowan is now ready for the rest home.

50 Lidane  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:58:05pm

re: #41 Kronocide

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Here, let me translate:

Jews that vote Obama hate Israel! Eleventy!

51 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:58:07pm

re: #44 bratwurst

Variation on the classic theme "Jews don't know what is good for them".

Which is itself a variation on the "They just don't know what's good for them" that used to be sad in back rooms but is now being spoken out in the open by wingnuts angry that their old white male vote is losing its value.

52 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 3:59:57pm

re: #50 Lidane

Here, let me translate:

Yep. And the Likud always get 100 percent of the vote in Israel.

//

53 researchok  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:00:29pm

re: #52 Gus

Touche

54 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:01:00pm

re: #47 Lidane

Also:

[Embedded content]

Unionbusting is all well and good for the RWNJs, until it affects their sports fix.

55 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:02:10pm

I don't care...I like these.

Image: 76874_472987086065643_701327335_n.jpg

56 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:02:10pm

re: #53 researchok

Touche

Americans that vote for Obama hate America! Derp.

//

58 researchok  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:04:04pm
59 researchok  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:04:47pm

re: #56 Gus

Stupid is the Grandest Canyon

60 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:04:50pm

For all the Jews who don't know what's best for you, never fear, Allen West promised to save you from yourselves back in March:

From Wonkette:
Today on Capitol Hill there are lots of J-Street (Pro-Palestinian Jewish Organization) representatives, of course several have recognized me and wanted to chat. I just have to shake my head when these citizens ask me to believe in Iran and support a two-state solution. When I ask them if there is a willing peace partner on the other side, they respond by saying yes. When I ask them how does one negotiate with leaders who do not even recognize your existence, they respond with, you have to believe in them. Well, looks like I will have to save these people from themselves. I take a man at his word when he says he wants to kill me, I ain’t suicidal.

Ummmm, yay?

61 JamesWI  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:07:32pm
62 Lidane  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:07:40pm

Heh:

63 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:08:00pm

Stop it!

//

64 jaunte  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:08:01pm

re: #60 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Well, looks like I will have to save these people from themselves

Allen West in a one-man amphibious assault on Chabahar Bay.

65 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:09:01pm

Romney is the beast of Revelation!
He was born in Tonga!
He'll sell us out to the Chinese, or worse, the Czechs!
Richard Nixon was his real father!

Oh. Just practicing in case we decide to meet the wingnuts on their own turf.

66 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:11:20pm

Dick Morris reminds me of Marcus Bachmann.

67 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:11:21pm
68 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:12:31pm

re: #66 Gus

Dick Morris reminds me of Marcus Bachmann.

Saying "Dick Morris" sends Marcus Bachmann into his closet to pray.

69 JamesWI  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:15:22pm
70 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:16:29pm

No way!

71 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:16:30pm

re: #68 darthstar

Saying "Dick Morris" sends Marcus Bachmann into his closet to pray.

I think he'd be happier if he "prayed" outside of the closet.

72 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:16:57pm

re: #66 Gus

Dick Morris reminds me of Marcus Bachmann.

Dick Morris reminds me of a toad with a fully functioning human brain.

73 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:17:01pm

Obama will help teh ghey buy babies.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

74 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:17:46pm

re: #66 Gus

Dick Morris reminds me of Marcus Bachmann.

I'd say Liberace. A mercenary literary Liberace.

75 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:17:48pm

re: #72 Charles Johnson

Dick Morris reminds me of a toad with a fully functioning human brain.

You sure it's fully functioning? //

76 erik_t  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:17:59pm

re: #72 Charles Johnson

Dick Morris reminds me of a toad with a fully functioning human brain.

I wouldn't say fully functioning.

77 erik_t  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:18:07pm

DAMNIT

78 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:18:24pm

The devil's in the details, but the angel's in the policy...

79 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:19:43pm

I keep expecting his throat to puff up and emit a *ribbit* sound.

80 Lidane  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:20:05pm

Brief OT, but I just heard back from the company I've interviewed with twice already. The hiring manager is flying in to Austin from California and we're meeting face to face on Thursday. Fingers crossed!

81 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:21:05pm

re: #80 Lidane

Brief OT, but I just heard back from the company I've interviewed with twice already. The hiring manager is flying in to Austin from California and we're meeting face to face on Thursday. Fingers crossed!

Good luck !

82 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:24:17pm

re: #70 Gus

No way!

[Embedded content]

Come on, don't they know? Windows outsources its beta testing to the customers of its OSes.

83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:24:56pm

re: #75 Gus

You sure it's fully functioning? //

(igor)
It used to belong to... Abby Someone
(/igor)

84 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:25:06pm

re: #80 Lidane

Brief OT, but I just heard back from the company I've interviewed with twice already. The hiring manager is flying in to Austin from California and we're meeting face to face on Thursday. Fingers crossed!

Congratulations on the F2F and good luck!

85 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:25:59pm

re: #80 Lidane

Brief OT, but I just heard back from the company I've interviewed with twice already. The hiring manager is flying in to Austin from California and we're meeting face to face on Thursday. Fingers crossed!

Did you recommend a good BBQ place?

86 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:26:54pm

re: #83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

(igor)
It used to belong to... Abby Someone
(/igor)

Abby Someone? Abby Who?

87 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:27:29pm

re: #86 Targetpractice

Abby Someone? Abby Who?

Normal

88 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:28:42pm

re: #87 darthstar

Normal

Abby Normal?

89 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:31:33pm

re: #87 darthstar

That's my dog's name,lol. Seriously. Abby Normal. On a bad day,she's aka Crabigail. She also has a middle name,for when she gets in trouble,given by my son. So,her full name would be Abigail Marie Normal. (yes,we are a weird family,thank you very much).

90 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:31:44pm

re: #70 Gus

No way!

[Embedded content]

I DLed the free beta version for my (older) laptop just to play around with it. The laptop met the minimum requirements to install. Win 8 told me the processor was to slow. I knew then that this was going to be a POS OS.

91 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:32:20pm

I await the Romney Campaign performing "Putting on the Ritz" sometime in the next month. Remember that the overall meme here is seeing how profitable in contributions this failed campaign can be made with no recriminations once the results are in.

92 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:33:19pm

re: #80 Lidane

Congrats. I hope all goes well for you.

93 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:33:23pm

re: #90 Bubblehead II

I DLed the free beta version for my (older) laptop just to play around with it. The laptop met the minimum requirements to install. Win 8 told me the processor was to slow. I knew then that this was going to be a POS OS.

Vista!

94 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:35:05pm

re: #93 Gus

Vista!

ME!

95 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:35:07pm

re: #89 A Mom Anon

That's my dog's name,lol. Seriously. Abby Normal. On a bad day,she's aka Crabigail. She also has a middle name,for when she gets in trouble,given by my son. So,her full name would be Abigail Marie Normal. (yes,we are a weird family,thank you very much).

My cat's full name is "William T Sherman Cat"*, but goes by "Sherman" to vets and visitors. On his bad days it is "His Imperial Crankiness".

* - His brother was named after George H Thomas. My oft suggested name for cats/kittens is "Puck". Playful like the character, makes you want to hit them with a stick. ;)

96 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:35:45pm

re: #85 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Did you recommend a good BBQ place?

re: #80 Lidane

Brief OT, but I just heard back from the company I've interviewed with twice already. The hiring manager is flying in to Austin from California and we're meeting face to face on Thursday. Fingers crossed!

Congrats. The one gig I was hoping to get went nowhere but I got a call today that I can go back to where I was working for $5 less an hour just to have a paycheck. :( Oh well, it's a paycheck for the next 4 months until I can find something that pays a little better for a little longer.

Can't say I'm happy about it because I hated the work I was doing but it's a paycheck.

97 Lidane  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:35:58pm

re: #85 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Did you recommend a good BBQ place?

If he asks, I'll send him to Lambert's. Their food is pretty good and they're within walking distance of the Austin offices for the company.

98 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:38:10pm

When I was growing up, we had a tabby that we named Morris Butterscotch Jones. Morris was from my no 1 little sister because of the advertising cat, Butterscotch from my no 2 little sister, & Jones because he was as feisty as the cat in Alien.

99 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:38:18pm

re: #89 A Mom Anon

That's my dog's name,lol. Seriously. Abby Normal. On a bad day,she's aka Crabigail. She also has a middle name,for when she gets in trouble,given by my son. So,her full name would be Abigail Marie Normal. (yes,we are a weird family,thank you very much).

My dog, Banjo has several nicknames, depending on his behavior.
Banjhole - though when he's barking at someone I can also say, "Banjo, don't be a dick." and he'll stop.
Talibanj - when he's being a little terrorist
Banjinista - when he's stalking the cat
Banjovi - when he's rockin'

100 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:38:54pm

re: #95 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

My cat's full name is "William T Sherman Cat"*, but goes by "Sherman" to vets and visitors. On his bad days it is "His Imperial Crankiness".

* - His brother was named after George H Thomas. My oft suggested name for cats/kittens is "Puck". Playful like the character, makes you want to hit them with a stick. ;)

I have Presta and Schrader. I call Schrader "Schrader Pie", which appropriately has a 'derp' in it, and lately, because he really knows how to get attention when he wants it, Presta has become "Presta Buttons" (press da buttons).

101 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:39:05pm

re: #82 Targetpractice

Come on, don't they know? Windows outsources its beta testing to the customers of its OSes.

I've noticed that as of Win 98 the off version of Windows sucks and then they get everything write on the next.

So we had Windows 95 which had quite a few problems, then Windows 98 which was pretty good. Then we had Windows ME which was a total disaster, then we got Windows XP which was pretty good. Then we got Vista which sucked, and then we got Windows 7 which is really good. Windows 8 is going to suck balls, and then Windows 9 will be great.

102 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:39:12pm
103 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:40:31pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

I have Presta and Schrader. I call Schrader "Schrader Pie", which appropriately has a 'derp' in it, and lately, because he really knows how to get attention when he wants it, Presta has become "Presta Buttons" (press da buttons).

Good bicycle related names. :)

And the extended names work as well.

104 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:42:55pm

re: #102 darthstar

[Embedded content]

105 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:45:20pm

re: #103 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Good bicycle related names. :)

And the extended names work as well.

Presta has a long, thin tail, and Schrader has a short fat one. I had the names before I had the cats, and lucked out when I found them together in a litter at the shelter.

Image: baby_P_S.JPG

106 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:46:06pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

I love that. Subtle bike references there,lol. My cat is Aleister,'cause he's a tuxedo kitty and it sounded like a hoidy toidy (or evil) name.

107 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:46:12pm

Congratulation goes to gamark for making a clean sweep of the bottom 10 comments for today.

108 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:47:10pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

Presta has a long, thin tail, and Schrader has a short fat one. I had the names before I had the cats, and lucked out when I found them together in a litter at the shelter.

Image: baby_P_S.JPG

Here's my cats, Spokes and Bottom Bracket. //

109 erik_t  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:47:12pm

re: #107 Gus

Congratulation goes to gamark for making a clean sweep of the bottom 10 comments for today.

Oooh I better go help out.

110 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:47:21pm

re: #107 Gus

Awesome! We all have to be good at something.

111 danarchy  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:47:32pm

re: #101 Mr. Crankypants

I've noticed that as of Win 98 the off version of Windows sucks and then they get everything write on the next.

So we had Windows 95 which had quite a few problems, then Windows 98 which was pretty good. Then we had Windows ME which was a total disaster, then we got Windows XP which was pretty good. Then we got Vista which sucked, and then we got Windows 7 which is really good. Windows 8 is going to suck balls, and then Windows 9 will be great.

skipped right over windows 2000 there...to me XP was a marginal improvement over windows 2000 that got much better with service packs.

I installed Windows 8 on an old laptop about a month ago and it has been rock solid since. As a matter of fact I don't think I've restarted it since the day I installed. It does feel a little schizophrenic like they took two completely different UI's and tried to mash them together and switching from metro to desktop just feels disjointed. It is clearly a transition OS, until they can get people to go with the metroUI without revolting and 3rd party developers can ramp up metro specific apps.

112 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:48:04pm

re: #107 Gus

Congratulation goes to gamark for making a clean sweep of the bottom 10 comments for today.

That was probably his goal.

Sorry I helped him, if so.

113 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:48:49pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

That was probably his goal.

Sorry I helped him, if so.

Is he still yapping away?

114 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:49:25pm

gamark?
Did I miss a troll?
Again?

115 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:50:13pm

re: #106 A Mom Anon

I love that. Subtle bike references there,lol. My cat is Aleister,'cause he's a tuxedo kitty and it sounded like a hoidy toidy (or evil) name.

First name: Aleister
Last name: CROWLEY!!!11ty

///

116 researchok  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:50:45pm

EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: Woman defaces 'anti-jihad' ad in Times Square station

Cops busted a lone protester -- angry with subway ads equating enemies of Israel as “savages” -- as she spray-painted over one of the controversial signs today.

A Post camera crew captured the bizarre conflict between suspect Mona Eltahawy, 45, and a woman defending the ads.

“Mona, do you think you have the right to do this?” said Pamela Hall, holding a mounted camera as she tried to block the barrage of spray paint.

“I do actually,” Eltahawy calmly responded. “I think this is freedom of expression, just as this is freedom of expression.”

Pamela then thrusts herself between Eltahawy’s spray paint and the poster.

Eltahawy engaged her in an odd cat-and-mouse dance, spraying pink every time she had an opening.

“What right do you have to violate free speech,” Pamela pleaded.

“I’m not violating it. I’m making an expression on free speech,” an increasingly agitated Eltahawy shot back....

117 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:51:30pm

re: #113 Gus

Is he still yapping away?

Still logged in, but hasn't yapped in hours.

118 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:51:42pm

re: #89 A Mom Anon

That's my dog's name,lol. Seriously. Abby Normal. On a bad day,she's aka Crabigail. She also has a middle name,for when she gets in trouble,given by my son. So,her full name would be Abigail Marie Normal. (yes,we are a weird family,thank you very much).

My cat in college (a black & white with the perfect little black booger) was Abercrombie.

This was way before the store.

119 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:52:12pm

re: #107 Gus

Congratulation goes to gamark for making a clean sweep of the bottom 10 comments for today.

Such an ignoble acheivement, but whatever gets them through the night, I guess.

That is, until they start getting really nasty, in which case Stinky can have at them.

120 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:52:18pm

re: #116 researchok

EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: Woman defaces 'anti-jihad' ad in Times Square station

Free expression - but not legal to deface an ad someone else paid to put up.

121 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:53:25pm

re: #118 We're All Welfare Queens Now

My cat in college (a black & white with the perfect little black booger) was Abercrombie.

This was way before the store.

Good cat name.

I had an cat named "Patches" that I got through friends. I told them it was obvious they mainly kept dogs. ;)

122 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:53:34pm

ignatz cat's formal name is Ignatz T Crazypants (that's the name listed on his secret kenyan long form birth certificate), but as a practical matter i usually call him 'ignatz puddies'. he might also be Ignatz Pudderewski, the famous polish virtuoso piano yowler. other times he might be the Fuzzy Nut Case, or Dr. CrazyPants, Certified Therapy Cat

123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:54:23pm

re: #122 engineer cat

ignatz cat's formal name is Ignatz T Crazypants (that's the name listed on his secret kenyan long form birth certificate), but as a practical matter i usually call him 'ignatz puddies'. he might also be Ignatz Pudderewski, the famous polish virtuoso piano yowler. other times he might be the Fuzzy Nut Case, or Dr. CrazyPants, Certified Therapy Cat

Friends of mine had a kitten named "Rufus P Cat-a-clysm".

124 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:55:05pm

re: #123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Friends of mine had a kitten named "Rufus P Cat-a-clysm".

Cat A. Strophe

125 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:56:30pm

Best name for a Siamese cat: Raoul. 'Cause they can say that.

126 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:57:47pm
127 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:59:17pm

re: #111 danarchy

skipped right over windows 2000 there...to me XP was a marginal improvement over windows 2000 that got much better with service packs.

I installed Windows 8 on an old laptop about a month ago and it has been rock solid since. As a matter of fact I don't think I've restarted it since the day I installed. It does feel a little schizophrenic like they took two completely different UI's and tried to mash them together and switching from metro to desktop just feels disjointed. It is clearly a transition OS, until they can get people to go with the metroUI without revolting and 3rd party developers can ramp up metro specific apps.

Windows 2000 was not a consumer release so I wasnt thinking about it since to me it was the successor to Windows NT, not Windows 98 or ME.

Everything I've heard about Windows 8 is that it is a complete disaster for desktop users. Another example (like the damnable Office ribbon) where Microsoft apparently didn't talk to any actual users before deciding to change things around.

128 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:59:19pm

re: #123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Friends of mine had a kitten named "Rufus P Cat-a-clysm".

I have a long-haired Chihuahua named Roscoe P. Jenkins (so dubbed by my now-deceased father)...and our family name isn't Jenkins.

129 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:59:40pm

re: #120 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Free expression - but not legal to deface an ad someone else paid to put up.

Too bad. I looked her up and Mona Eltahawy seems like like an ok person at first glance. I expected her to be a Mondowiess idiot or Islamist but she seems all right except her unwillingness to let others run ads without defacing them.

130 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 4:59:52pm

re: #126 We're All Welfare Queens Now

I follow her on the twitter.

[Link: www.monaeltahawy.com...]

131 researchok  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:00:03pm

re: #126 We're All Welfare Queens Now

She is pretty sharp.

Not a nut job

132 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:01:11pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

Too bad. I looked her up and Mona Eltahawy seems like like an ok person at first glance. I expected her to be a Mondowiess idiot or Islamist but she seems all right except her unwillingness to let others run ads without defacing them.

Sounds like a civil disobedience thing. She feels strongly enough about it to face arrest and fines. Not like she is advocating violence against those who bought the ads.

133 Lidane  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:01:30pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

My girl cat is named Sushi because her legs, chest and belly are white, but the top part of her face, her ears, back and tail are grey. Every time she does that cat loaf thing where she folds her legs and tail under herself, she looks like a piece of sushi that's gone bad.

My boy cat is Bruce because I couldn't think of a name and I remembered a Monty Python skit about everyone and everything in Australia being named Bruce, even the women and pets. Plus I like Bruce Campbell, so there's that too. Heh.

134 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:02:03pm

re: #128 Gert Fröbe

I have a long-haired Chihuahua named Roscoe P. Jenkins (so named by my now-deceased father)...and our family name isn't Jenkins.

Another Roscoe - in "Silence! I keel you!" mode.

Image: Roscoe_-_I_kill_you.JPG

135 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:02:06pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

Best name for a Siamese cat: Raoul. 'Cause they can say that.

other cat words:

prrrawn
brrrown
prrrune
perrrt!

136 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:02:18pm

re: #71 Reverend Mother Ramallo

I think he'd be happier if he "prayed" outside of the closet.

His religion WANTS him to pray in the closet, in private, god will see and reward him.

137 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:02:19pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

Too bad. I looked her up and Mona Eltahawy seems like like an ok person at first glance. I expected her to be a Mondowiess idiot or Islamist but she seems all right except her unwillingness to let others run ads without defacing them.

Well, you'd be wrong, and contrary to your previous rep, prematurely judgmental.

138 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:02:43pm

re: #130 We're All Welfare Queens Now

[Link: www.monaeltahawy.com...]

Oh yeah. I've seen her around.

139 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:02:56pm

re: #132 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Sounds like a civil disobedience thing. She feels strongly enough about it to face arrest and fines. Not like she is advocating violence against those who bought the ads.

It does look like a planned event. There are other cameras there and the wingnut chick already knows her name.

140 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:04:34pm

re: #133 Lidane

My girl cat is named Sushi because her legs, chest and belly are white, but the top part of her face, her ears, back and tail are grey. Every time she does that cat loaf thing where she folds her legs and tail under herself, she looks like a piece of sushi that's gone bad.

My boy cat is Bruce because I couldn't think of a name and I remembered a Monty Python skit about everyone and everything in Australia being named Bruce, even the women and pets. Plus I like Bruce Campbell, so there's that too. Heh.

My sister had a tiny white kitten she named Butch. He grew into it, became a very muscular-looking bruiser.

141 erik_t  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:05:32pm

re: #127 Mr. Crankypants

Upding because fuck the ribbon.

142 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:06:13pm

I thought she looked familiar. I saw Mona on Melissa Harris-Perry's MSNBC show.
I liked her.

143 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:07:00pm

Our eldest is also the smallest, a little stick of calico dynamite that we imaginatively named "Cally." She's actually the second calico we've had in the family since I was a kid, but her predecessor was a bigger and much more loving cat. Cally wants attention on his own time and is ornery when somebody ticks her off.

Our second eldest is this gray ball of fur we called "Smokey," though he usually answers to "Bubby" because he's such a lover. If you lay in bed, he will absolutely insist on getting under the covers with you, which is great in the winter, not so much in the summer. Also he whines constantly when he wants out, when he wants special food, when he wants to be petted, etc, etc, etc...

And the youngest is "Missy," who we got second-hand from our neighbors mother-in-law, who had to be put in a nursing home. This cat is utterly neurotic and will run if you move anything other than a dead crawl towards her. And yet, for whatever reason, in the early morning and late evening, she suddenly decides she wants companionship and starts rubbing over everybody.

And me? I'm apparently know as "Meow" to them.

144 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:07:09pm

Damn...I'm getting ready to leave the office and there's someone standing at the keg...now here I am back at my desk, beer in hand. Oh well, traffic's going to suck anyway for the first five miles.

145 danarchy  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:07:09pm

re: #120 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Free expression - but not legal to deface an ad someone else paid to put up.

Yeah, couldn't figure out why she kept asking why she was being arrested. Free speech has never extended to vandalism. I respect someone who is willing to get arrested to make a point, but I could do without the whole "look! look! I'm being oppressed!" crap when the cops just try to do their jobs.

146 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:07:45pm

re: #141 erik_t

Upding because fuck the ribbon.

Nasty business. Evetnaully I'm sure I'll learn to program with it and think it's worthwhile (I do Office development) but Generally I hate it. It's driven me to learn .Net so I can find work.

147 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:09:53pm

We have two dogs, Buster and Toby. Buster the Lhaso Apso (which is Tibetan for Pain in the Ass!) has small dog syndrome and insists on barking orders, while Toby the flat coated retriever is just a big lovable doofus who just wants his ears scratched, constantly, incessently and is not above putting his head on your keyfadsjipqrnkadsm'faskf'
kag
pkga
kga

Toby quit it! He's not above putting his head on your keyboard when he wants attention.

148 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:10:46pm

I've picked up several clients in the last few weeks. No work planned for a while so there's nothing to do yet.

But I've picked up several clients in the last few weeks.

149 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:11:10pm

re: #147 Mr. Crankypants

We have two dogs, Buster and Toby. Buster the Lhaso Apso (which is Tibetan for Pain in the Ass!) has small dog syndrome and insists on barking orders, while Toby the flat coated retriever is just a big lovable doofus who just wants his ears scratched, constantly, incessently and is not above putting his head on your keyfadsjipqrnkadsm'faskf'
kag
pkga
kga

Toby quit it! He's not above putting his head on your keyboard when he wants attention.

Smokey does something similar, he jumps up on the desk and lays down in front of the keyboard, as if to say "You're supposed to be paying attention to me." And Cally will do something similar, standing in front of the monitor until I toss her little ring for her to chase after.

150 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:11:45pm

re: #143 Targetpractice

she suddenly decides she wants companionship and starts rubbing over everybody.

My cats are the only ones I've ever met that don't rub on people's legs. I think their mom forgot to teach them that.

151 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:12:24pm
A small explosion of some kind occurred Monday afternoon in a mailbox outside the home of Indiana Democratic congressional candidate Brendan Mullen.

A law enforcement official told TPM on Tuesday that authorities are investigating a spate of incidents involving similar explosions. Four such explosions have occurred in and around Granger, Ind., where Mullen lives, in the last 24 hours, according to David Coulson, a spokesperson for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

You'd think they'd just leave a burning bag of poop on his doorstep.

152 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:12:26pm

re: #148 Kronocide

I've picked up several clients in the last few weeks. No work planned for a while so there's nothing to do yet.

But I've picked up several clients in the last few weeks.

Do they have cute names and adorable annoying habits?

153 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:12:31pm

re: #150 wrenchwench

My cats are the only ones I've ever met that don't rub on people's legs. I think their mom forgot to teach them that.

Smokey likes to weave between my legs when I'm walking in the kitchen. I'm pretty convinced that he's trying to kill me...or just get the food in my hands, I've not decided yet.

154 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:13:05pm

re: #145 danarchy

Yeah, couldn't figure out why she kept asking why she was being arrested. Free speech has never extended to vandalism. I respect someone who is willing to get arrested to make a point, but I could do without the whole "look! look! I'm being oppressed!" crap when the cops just try to do their jobs.

She knew why.
She wanted to get noticed, and to get her name out to a wider audience.
She wants to take on the Bigotosphere.

155 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:13:49pm

re: #147 Mr. Crankypants

My standard response to people with tiny dogs when I'm out with my boys, "Well, there's 40lbs of mean in a 5lb bag." - always gets a smile.

And for people with humongous dogs, I say, "Well, aren't you just a big ole bag of dog food." - that usually gets a "You can say that again."

156 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:13:53pm

re: #152 wrenchwench

Do they have cute names and adorable annoying habits?

Annoying habits, yes. Cute names, no.

But I have them, yeah for me.

157 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:13:55pm

re: #153 Targetpractice

Smokey likes to weave between my legs when I'm walking in the kitchen. I'm pretty convinced that he's trying to kill me...or just get the food in my hands, I've not decided yet.

Buster is prone to bouncing against the back of your legs as you walk in..but usually he does that when you're carrying in a bag in case there might be treats in there.

158 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:14:35pm

re: #149 Targetpractice

Smokey does something similar, he jumps up on the desk and lays down in front of the keyboard, as if to say "You're supposed to be paying attention to me." And Cally will do something similar, standing in front of the monitor until I toss her little ring for her to chase after.

You mean something like this?

Image: Typical_computer_view.JPG

I think the cat knew that the desktop was running Win ME and was trying to save me from the pain.

159 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:14:43pm

Okay...time to go home before someone offers me another beer. See you all in a bit.

160 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:15:05pm

re: #155 darthstar

My standard response to people with tiny dogs when I'm out with my boys, "Well, there's 40lbs of mean in a 5lb bag." - always gets a smile.

And for people with humongous dogs, I say, "Well, aren't you just a big ole bag of dog food." - that usually gets a "You can say that again."

Busters about 20 pounds and he's not mean so much as overly assertive. Watching him try to dominance hump Toby is kind of funny though.

161 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:15:51pm

re: #154 Reverend Mother Ramallo

She knew why.
She wanted to get noticed, and to get her name out to a wider audience.
She wants to take on the Bigotosphere.

And I support that sort of thing. I don't care if it's illegal. They don't call it 'civil DISobedience' for nuthin'!

I hope she had arranged to get bailed out in a hurry.

162 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:16:35pm

re: #158 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

You mean something like this?

Image: Typical_computer_view.JPG

I think the cat knew that the desktop was running Win ME and was trying to save me from the pain.

Yeah, that's a familiar view. Though usually I have a pair of eyes looking at me accusingly, as if to say "Why are you not petting me?"

163 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:16:35pm

re: #116 researchok

EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: Woman defaces 'anti-jihad' ad in Times Square station

First off, Pink? Next time get a better color. Yah know, like black. It has better coverage.

Second. She should have spray painted the camera lens of the woman recording her.

But, yah know what? Mona, You rock Girl!

164 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:17:00pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

And I support that sort of thing. I don't care if it's illegal. They don't call it 'civil DISobedience' for nuthin'!

I hope she had arranged to get bailed out in a hurry.

I support her too. Yes, it's technically vandalism -- it's also technically civil disobedience for a good cause.

165 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:17:47pm

re: #163 Bubblehead II

First off, Pink? Next time get a better color. Yah know, like black. It has better coverage.

Second. She should have spray painted the camera lens of the woman recording her.

But, yah know what? Mona, You rock Girl!

I suspect she knew that reacting like that would have been more seriously frowned upon. And potentially played up as assault.

166 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:18:23pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

And I support that sort of thing. I don't care if it's illegal. They don't call it 'civil DISobedience' for nuthin'!

I hope she had arranged to get bailed out in a hurry.

Make the statement, pay the fine, listen to the banshee wail. Not sure if it's very effective or very counterproductive.

167 freetoken  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:18:24pm

Anti-Muslim Subway Ads Enjoy the Freedom to Offend

[...]

Most of us accept that the sharing of offensive statements and beliefs are just the price we pay to live in a free society. There’s no law that says we have to like it. We just have to support each other’s right to speak freely. Sometimes, though, it’s tempting to wish we could lock Pamela Geller and her buddies in a junior high gymnasium with Muslim extremists, arm them all with rotten tomatoes, and let them have at it.

168 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:19:25pm

re: #162 Targetpractice

Yeah, that's a familiar view. Though usually I have a pair of eyes looking at me accusingly, as if to say "Why are you not petting me?"

That particular mode is me being ignored on purpose. Probably for a service error like not having the food dish properly filled with the desired type of tasty morsel. If he wanted pets he would have simply gotten up there and then forced his way onto my lap.

169 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:20:55pm

re: #168 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

That particular mode is me being ignored on purpose. Probably for a service error like not having the food dish properly filled with the desired type of tasty morsel. If he wanted pets he would have simply gotten up there and then forced his way onto my lap.

Thankfully we have one of those autofeeders and our three have been trained to expect the tasty wet stuff in the early morning. Now if the little spoiled things didn't leave half the bowl to rot for a day. Ugh.

170 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:21:47pm

re: #120 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Free expression - but not legal to deface an ad someone else paid to put up.

Maybe not. But I still applaud Her for taking a stand against a blatantly bigoted ad.

171 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:22:41pm

re: #167 freetoken

Anti-Muslim Subway Ads Enjoy the Freedom to Offend

I love how Ms Geller does not appear to understand the difference between individual action and government action regarding religious protection and her ads. As we here are pointing out an individual defacing one is not legal, and it is simply not comparable to a government mandated blasphemy law.

172 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:22:42pm

re: #167 freetoken

Anti-Muslim Subway Ads Enjoy the Freedom to Offend

In old Pittsburgh we enjoyed the Freedom to Offend and the Freedom to Get Punched Out, and free rides in paddy wagons.

173 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:23:57pm

re: #166 Decatur Deb

Make the statement, pay the fine, listen to the banshee wail. Not sure if it's very effective or very counterproductive.

It's a wash. Some people will like it and pay more attention to her. For me it's kind of a bummer that this was my introduction to her. She's someone I might have otherwise liked but tolerating the free speech of others is a big thing for me. The whole activist thing of using free speech to silence others just misses the whole concept of free speech in my book.

174 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:25:54pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

It's a wash. Some people will like it and pay more attention to her. For me it's kind of a bummer that this was my introduction to her. She's someone I might have otherwise liked but tolerating the free speech of others is a big thing for me. The whole activist thing of using free speech to silence others just misses the whole concept of free speech in my book.

Nobody is being silenced, especially not Pamela Geller.

175 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:26:01pm

re: #169 Targetpractice

Thankfully we have one of those autofeeders and our three have been trained to expect the tasty wet stuff in the early morning. Now if the little spoiled things didn't leave half the bowl to rot for a day. Ugh.

Mine ate all dry for years with human food and soft food as treats. When they got older it went to all wet food due to preferences and a way to get more fluids into them since when kidney function starts to degrade keeping them hydrated is an issue. There is still a supply of dry food there - but generally not eaten much.

No solution I know of for the "this is yucky - let it rot" thing. His Imperial Crankiness goes through phases where a particular flavor of food is all he wants, and then he suddenly won't touch it for a month or so. He times it to when I finally break down and buy a whole case of cans of that flavor at once. :p

176 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:26:49pm

If anything Mona will help bring attention to Geller's anti-social ad campaign.

177 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:27:15pm

re: #176 Gus

If anything Mona will help bring attention to Geller's anti-social ad campaign.

Make that bring in more attention.

178 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:27:39pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

It's a wash. Some people will like it and pay more attention to her. For me it's kind of a bummer that this was my introduction to her. She's someone I might have otherwise liked but tolerating the free speech of others is a big thing for me. The whole activist thing of using free speech to silence others just misses the whole concept of free speech in my book.

All for freedom of speech and of assembly, but sometimes I cheer on the violators--it's a failing.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

179 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:27:44pm

re: #166 Decatur Deb

Make the statement, pay the fine, listen to the banshee wail. Not sure if it's very effective or very counterproductive.

Tactics must continually evolve. You can't overstuff the local jails anymore because they can process and release you on the scene. If you get some news coverage as an individual, that's pretty efficient. Viral YouTubes can be powerful.

180 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:27:48pm

re: #177 Gus

Make that bring in more attention.

Well, it got a mention on NPR yesterday. I posted a link earlier today.

181 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:28:05pm

re: #165 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I stated the camera lens, not her face. You come at it from and angle and nail the camera lens, there by rendering it useless.

182 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:29:24pm

re: #176 Gus

If anything Mona will help bring attention to Geller's anti-social ad campaign.

She's actually been getting a lot of news coverage already, and she's been on Fox News a lot too. That's why the idea that someone spray-painting one of her offensive hate speech signs is "silencing" her is a bit ridiculous. She's in absolutely no danger of being silenced.

183 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:30:12pm

re: #127 Mr. Crankypants

Windows 2000 was not a consumer release so I wasnt thinking about it since to me it was the successor to Windows NT, not Windows 98 or ME.

Everything I've heard about Windows 8 is that it is a complete disaster for desktop users. Another example (like the damnable Office ribbon) where Microsoft apparently didn't talk to any actual users before deciding to change things around.

Most geeks (myself included) wouldn't be bitching half as much about Win8 if MS gave users a choice between the Metro interface and the Vista/7 Aero interface (some people like the old Windows Classic interface, but it's not really necessary these days). That said, Metro's good for what it was chiefly designed for, which is to give Win8 a more-or-less standardized touch-centric interface across the OS and programs; I didn't really have much issue using Metro with a KB and mouse/trackpad, though my backup netbook's relatively low resolution prevents me from running Metro apps on it. Also, I may be in the minority, but I like that MS is using the Ribbon interface more in Windows itself.

I'll certainly be getting a copy or two to upgrade my desktop and netbook to Win8 (at MS' special upgrade price of about 20-30 bucks a pop, why not?) and get Start8 from Stardock if I want the "old" Start menu.

184 Kronocide  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:33:04pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

She's actually been getting a lot of news coverage already, and she's been on Fox News a lot too. That's why the idea that someone spray-painting one of her offensive hate speech signs is "silencing" her is a bit ridiculous. She's in absolutely no danger of being silenced.

Geller is trying to silence Muslims.

185 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:33:28pm

windows

perhaps i'll write a science fiction story where the origins of software in the far distant past were not dominated by a giant corporation

i wonder what that universe would have been like

186 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:33:33pm

re: #178 Decatur Deb

All for freedom of speech and of assembly, but sometimes I cheer on the violators--it's a failing.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I definately understand the appeal but I try to resist the urge. In special situations it can be effective but the technique is just way overused. Chicken sandwiches, movies, radio shows, cartoons, etc.I was listening to a recent interview with Salman Rushdie and he was talking about how we have created a culture of outrage and people define themselves by their outrages and what they're offended by. In the end it just ends up being an excuse to impose their will on others and create a feeling of self empowerment.

188 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:34:27pm

re: #186 Killgore Trout

I definately understand the appeal but I try to resist the urge. In special situations it can be effective but the technique is just way overused. Chicken sandwiches, movies, radio shows, cartoons, etc.I was listening to a recent interview with Salman Rushdie and he was talking about how we have created a culture of outrage and people define themselves by their outrages and what they're offended by. In the end it just ends up being an excuse to impose their will on others and create a feeling of self empowerment.

Occasionally something really is outrageous.

189 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:35:06pm

re: #186 Killgore Trout

I definately understand the appeal but I try to resist the urge. In special situations it can be effective but the technique is just way overused. Chicken sandwiches, movies, radio shows, cartoons, etc.I was listening to a recent interview with Salman Rushdie and he was talking about how we have created a culture of outrage and people define themselves by their outrages and what they're offended by. In the end it just ends up being an excuse to impose their will on others and create a feeling of self empowerment.

Agree. That's why I support the ACLU's effort to keep people like me in line.

190 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:35:43pm

re: #188 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Occasionally something really is outrageous.

Sometimes.

191 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:37:35pm

re: #186 Killgore Trout

I definately understand the appeal but I try to resist the urge. In special situations it can be effective but the technique is just way overused. Chicken sandwiches, movies, radio shows, cartoons, etc.I was listening to a recent interview with Salman Rushdie and he was talking about how we have created a culture of outrage and people define themselves by their outrages and what they're offended by. In the end it just ends up being an excuse to impose their will on others and create a feeling of self empowerment.

And by speaking against such things, are you trying to silence and/or impose your will on the ones doing it?

192 freetoken  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:38:08pm

Perseverance is usually portrayed as a good trait, but sometimes it is just selfish stubborness:

Embattled GOP Rep. Akin stays in Mo. Senate race

193 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:40:21pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

It's a wash. Some people will like it and pay more attention to her. For me it's kind of a bummer that this was my introduction to her. She's someone I might have otherwise liked but tolerating the free speech of others is a big thing for me. The whole activist thing of using free speech to silence others just misses the whole concept of free speech in my book.

i don't think it matters whether you like it or not, heckling and otherwise responding to free speech is also free speech

there is no constitutionally protected right to not be told to shut up

194 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:40:22pm

re: #192 freetoken

Perseverance is usually portrayed as a good trait, but sometimes it is just selfish stubborness:

Embattled GOP Rep. Akin stays in Mo. Senate race

Wouldn't "Akin Endeavors to Persevere" had been more fun?

:)

195 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:41:43pm

re: #192 freetoken

Perseverance is usually portrayed as a good trait, but sometimes it is just selfish stubborness:

Embattled GOP Rep. Akin stays in Mo. Senate race

And Democrats waste no time:

Dems Release The Hounds As Deadline For Akin To Drop Out Expires

196 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:42:21pm

re: #189 Decatur Deb

Agree. That's why I support the ACLU's effort to keep people like me in line.

The ACLU is always an interesting barometer. I often agree with them ideologically and they have persuaded on many occasions. I tend to get a little bit lax when it comes to drone strikes and indefinite detention stuff just out of practicality. It does sometimes irk me that the ACLU challenges this stuff in the courts but I'm glad that they do it. Run it through the system and see what happens. Overall they do good work.

197 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:42:27pm

re: #189 Decatur Deb

Agree. That's why I support the ACLU's effort to keep people like me in line.

You're complicated.

198 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:43:03pm

re: #185 engineer cat

windows

perhaps i'll write a science fiction story where the origins of software in the far distant past were not dominated by a giant corporation

i wonder what that universe would have been like

I once wrote a sci-fi spoof where the internet became transtemporally aware and knew not only what had happened but what was going to happen. Also created the holodroid (a hologram based android)

My most prescient bit was the idea that all computers in the future will have one key on the keyboard (even after everything is voice actuated) so that you can tap it to make the computer go faster.

199 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:43:09pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

It's a wash. Some people will like it and pay more attention to her. For me it's kind of a bummer that this was my introduction to her. She's someone I might have otherwise liked but tolerating the free speech of others is a big thing for me. The whole activist thing of using free speech to silence others just misses the whole concept of free speech in my book.

So you are against people using free speech, to point out how the other side is wrong, from using free speech?

200 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:43:22pm

re: #193 engineer cat

i don't think it matters whether you like it or not, heckling and otherwise responding to free speech is also free speech

there is no constitutionally protected right to not be told to shut up

The lines here start to revolve around civility, and at what point heckling and purposeful disruption starts to hurt the communication process.

201 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:43:44pm

re: #184 Kronocide

Geller is trying to silence Muslims.

Absolutely. This is an attempt to scare people -- both Muslims and non-Muslims. It's disgusting.

I'll remind everyone that Christopher Hitchens once defaced the sign of fascist party in Lebanon, at much greater personal risk than Mona Eltahawy, and for a very similar reason - because it was so offensive he felt he couldn't just ignore it.

This is a valuable lesson for Pamela Geller, that she can't keep spreading her filth without expecting people to start pushing back.

202 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:46:25pm

re: #199 Bubblehead II

So you are against people using free speech, to point out how the other side is wrong, from using free speech?

No. I generally oppose inhibiting the free speech of others. Disrupting political events or speeches. Trying to get radio shows cancelled. Advertiser boycotts. Defacing ads. Disrupting art galleries, etc. I know these are all popular techniques but I generally don't support them.

203 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:47:32pm

By the way, I follow Mona on Twitter - she's been absolutely great with the breaking Arab Spring news from Egypt and elsewhere. I have a lot of respect for her.

204 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:47:53pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

No. I generally oppose inhibiting the free speech of others. Disrupting political events or speeches. Trying to get radio shows cancelled. Advertiser boycotts. Defacing ads. Disrupting art galleries, etc. I know these are all popular techniques but I generally don't support them.

Do you believe that freedom of speech, of expression, comes with an inherent freedom from criticism?

205 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:47:56pm

re: #201 Charles Johnson

Absolutely. This is an attempt to scare people -- both Muslims and non-Muslims. It's disgusting.

I'll remind everyone that Christopher Hitchens once defaced the sign of fascist party in Lebanon, at much greater personal risk than Mona Eltanhawy, and for a very similar reason - because it was so offensive he felt he couldn't just ignore it.

This is a valuable lesson for Pamela Geller, that she can't keep spreading her filth without expecting people to start pushing back.

Amen to that Brother/ister

206 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:47:57pm

re: #200 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The lines here start to revolve around civility, and at what point heckling and purposeful disruption starts to hurt the communication process.

if what is said to begin with is uncivil, shouting it down is an attempt to make the discourse more civil

207 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:48:10pm

re: #197 wrenchwench

You're complicated.

I can remember being a hardcore militaristic religious authoritarian. I was 12.

208 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:48:36pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

Those techniques are not all equal. Obviously, your opposition to boycotts is a cranky position held by almost no one, given that it's actually a restriction of free speech on your part.

There's no similarity between disrupting an event and announcing that you're boycotting something and trying to get other people to do so as well. The latter is pure free speech, and being against it while claiming to be a champion of free speech is completely stupid.

209 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:50:21pm

re: #193 engineer cat

Or,the answer to hateful speech is MORE speech,not less. They can go ahead and run their hateful mouths,fine. The answer is not to let it lie,but to speak more than them. Their freedom of speech has NEVER included the right to remain unchallenged. No consequences for what you say is not a part of freedom of speech. It's like telling someone who is being bullied or abused that they are wrong for fighting back. Bullshit.

210 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:50:46pm

re: #174 Charles Johnson

Nobody is being silenced, especially not Pamela Geller.

This is KT though. I'm sure my decision to stop watching the NFL this season because of the incompetent scab refs is somehow an attempt to silence the NFL's free speech.

211 freetoken  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:52:36pm

Last night I wrote a comment about the brouhaha over Channel 4's latest Islam documentary, and it strikes me that this billboard mocku-graffiti is pretty different than a real argument over "freedom of speech".

Billboards, posters, signs get marked on all the time. In weighing the impact upon my civilization, what Geller is trying to do (in encouraging a world wide religious war) versus what this billboard vandal is trying to do (in venting her own feelings on a sign in her own community), while both have their similarities, I find Geller's actions to be the worse.

212 Lidane  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:53:36pm

Yeah! Racism is just a mass delusion that has never, ever happened in this country. Ever.

213 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:54:38pm

re: #212 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Yeah! Racism is just a mass delusion that has never, ever happened in this country. Ever.

Let me guess, Ann's now swearing that racism died in '64 with the signing of the Civil Rights Act? That on the day LBJ signed that, racism just ended in America?

214 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:54:46pm

re: #178 Decatur Deb

All for freedom of speech and of assembly, but sometimes I cheer on the violators--it's a failing.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Thank you for that link. Those people standing up for what is right against the Klan is what is best in America. We need more like that, not less.

215 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:55:08pm

Ann Coulter: Liberals have been "play acting against nonexistent racism" for decades

excuse me, i didn't quite hear that. did you say "romney will be nominated and we'll lose"?

216 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:55:41pm

re: #197 wrenchwench

You're complicated.

He needs more roughage.

217 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:55:59pm

re: #212 Lidane

Coulter's really been trying to say something newsworthy lately. Now she's progressed to blatant race-baiting. She probably has another unreadable book coming out.

218 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:56:05pm

re: #206 engineer cat

if what is said to begin with is uncivil, shouting it down is an attempt to make the discourse more civil

Multiple courses possible in how to react to uncivil speech. And the different courses probably resonate better or worse depending on the audience and environment. A well-formulated campaign of course is using multiple routes and methods in order to communicate their message(s) wider and more powerfully.

Lot of factors come into play - and I see no reason to start positing hypothetical situations since I do not think that would further the conversation.

219 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:56:26pm

re: #184 Kronocide

Geller is trying to silence Muslims.

And stomp on their freedom of religion.

220 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:56:40pm

re: #211 freetoken

I love Banksy.

221 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:57:05pm

re: #217 Charles Johnson

Coulter's really been trying to say something newsworthy lately. Now she's progressed to blatant race-baiting. She probably has another unreadable book coming out.

Ayep, apparently the theme for this one is "White guilt was gone from the OJ verdict until Obama became the Dem candidate."

222 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:57:35pm

re: #212 Lidane

Yes,racism has never happened to Ann Coulter,so it's certainly not a problem. Could she be anymore loathsome? Or Evil? Or just ugly? Creepy?

223 bratwurst  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:57:59pm

re: #215 engineer cat

Ann Coulter: Liberals have been "play acting against nonexistent racism" for decades

excuse me, i didn't quite hear that. did you say "romney will be nominated and we'll lose"?

224 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:58:01pm
225 freetoken  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:58:09pm

Coulter is still striving to out-do the real experts in this kind of thing:

Ralph Reed's Group Compares Obama Policies to Nazi Germany

A mailer blasted out by the Faith and Freedom Coalition, a nonprofit group spending millions of dollars to mobilize evangelical voters this November to help Mitt Romney's campaign, compares President Barack Obama's policies to the threat posed by Nazi Germany and Japan during World War II. It also says that Obama has "Communist beliefs." A copy of this so-called "Voter Registration Confirmation Survey" was obtained by Mother Jones after it was sent to the home of a registered Republican voter.


[...]

226 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:58:32pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

No. I generally oppose inhibiting the free speech of others. Disrupting political events or speeches. Trying to get radio shows cancelled. Advertiser boycotts. Defacing ads. Disrupting art galleries, etc. I know these are all popular techniques but I generally don't support them.

The guarantee of free speech does not mean the guarantee of acceptance of, or a venue for, that free speech, except that it cannot not abridged or curtailed by the government; people are free to take it or leave it as they please.

And if someone feels the need to boycott someone or some company that they disagree with, that's their free speech right. Don't care for it, don't do it; it's that simple.

227 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:58:46pm

re: #221 Targetpractice

Ayep, apparently the theme for this one is "White guilt was gone from the OJ verdict until Obama became the Dem candidate."

Did she also announce when the election was that elected OJ the sole symbolic representative of blacks in America?
///

228 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:59:36pm

come to think of it, i did the very same thing as this Eltahawy woman:

a bunch of larouche-ites had a card table set up on the sidewalk outside of the local safeway last summer. it was festooned with posters of obama dressed up like a nazi. this pissed me off

i couldn't help myself - i went up and tore one of them down and ripped it up

felt good

local police who were keeping an eye on the whole thing didn't feel that they needed to intervene in this little spat

psychologists say that if you don't allow yourself or you can't respond to speech or actions that hurt you psychically, that this causes you more damage

229 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 5:59:48pm

re: #204 Targetpractice

Do you believe that freedom of speech, of expression, comes with an inherent freedom from criticism?

No, that would be stupid.

230 jaunte  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:00:04pm

re: #226 Gert Fröbe

Is it wrong of me to read that in Yoda's voice?

231 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:00:58pm

re: #227 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Did she also announce when the election was that elected OJ the sole symbolic representative of blacks in America?
///

Don't know, here's the book though:

Mugged: Racial Demagoguery from the Seventies to Obama

The description reads the usual: Democrats are fooling black people, they've always been racist, and black people will be better off when they realize liberals don't care about them.

232 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:01:35pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

No, that would be stupid.

So then you feel there are limits on that criticism?

233 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:02:31pm

re: #214 William Barnett-Lewis

Thank you for that link. Those people standing up for what is right against the Klan is what is best in America. We need more like that, not less.

Here's another old one, about a Klan rally against immigrants and Catholics outside of Pittsburgh--didn't go well.

Note: .pdf

www.palaborhistory.org/pdf/PLHSJournalDec09.pdf

(Remember, their rights were sort of violated.)

234 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:04:08pm

re: #230 jaunte

Is it wrong of me to read that in Yoda's voice?

If care for it you do not, do it you should not.

235 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:05:12pm
236 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:05:35pm

re: #230 jaunte

Is it wrong of me to read that in Yoda's voice?

Nah...

237 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:06:10pm

re: #232 Targetpractice

So then you feel there are limits on that criticism?

Criticize all you want. Hold rallies, make speeches, make movies, draw cartoons, go on the radio, write on a blog. Go nuts. I generally draw the line when the actions of protest impede the ability of other people to do the same stuff.
/I hope that was an honest question

238 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:08:04pm

re: #233 Decatur Deb

Here's another old one, about a Klan rally against immigrants and Catholics outside of Pittsburgh--didn't go well.

Note: .pdf

www.palaborhistory.org/pdf/PLHSJournalDec09.pdf

(Remember, their rights were sort of violated.)

Another nice one.

I remember watching a movie some years back that was supposed to be based on true events. White & Hispanic soldiers returning from WWII to their small Texas town had to fight a small civil war together against the corrupt and racist local government. Wish I could track it down again.

239 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:08:38pm

re: #237 Killgore Trout

Criticize all you want. Hold rallies, make speeches, make movies, draw cartoons, go on the radio, write on a blog. Go nuts. I generally draw the line when the actions of protest impede the ability of other people to do the same stuff.
/I hope that was an honest question

It was an honest question, but the answer makes no sense. If somebody engages in free speech or expression, why should I limit my criticism? If they say or engage in something I deem offensive, why should I allow it to stand?

240 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:08:42pm

re: #228 engineer cat

come to think of it, i did the very same thing as this Eltahawy woman:

a bunch of larouche-ites had a card table set up on the sidewalk outside of the local safeway last summer. it was festooned with posters of obama dressed up like a nazi. this pissed me off

i couldn't help myself - i went up and tore one of them down and ripped it up

felt good

local police who were keeping an eye on the whole thing didn't feel that they needed to intervene in this little spat

psychologists say that if you don't allow yourself or you can't respond to speech or actions that hurt you psychically, that this causes you more damage

I'll give you a "Fuck yeah!" for that.

241 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:10:30pm

re: #240 Gert Fröbe

I'll give you a "Fuck yeah!" for that.

I disapprove admiringly.

242 JamesWI  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:10:38pm

re: #237 Killgore Trout

Criticize all you want. Hold rallies, make speeches, make movies, draw cartoons, go on the radio, write on a blog. Go nuts. I generally draw the line when the actions of protest impede the ability of other people to do the same stuff.
/I hope that was an honest question

And how does a boycott impede the ability of other people to hold rallies, make speeches, draw cartoons, go on the radio, or write on a blog? I didn't realize free speech included the right to have advertisers continue to sponsor you regardless of what you say?

Probably because it's an incredibly stupid idea.

243 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:12:50pm

re: #237 Killgore Trout

Criticize all you want. Hold rallies, make speeches, make movies, draw cartoons, go on the radio, write on a blog. Go nuts. I generally draw the line when the actions of protest impede the ability of other people to do the same stuff.
/I hope that was an honest question

Then why do you object to boycotts? Since boycotts in no way impede anybody's ability to do any of those things. Do you go out of your way to economically support people who's speech you find abhorrent?

244 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:13:21pm

re: #233 Decatur Deb

Here's another old one, about a Klan rally against immigrants and Catholics outside of Pittsburgh--didn't go well.

Note: .pdf

www.palaborhistory.org/pdf/PLHSJournalDec09.pdf

(Remember, their rights were sort of violated.)

I know about Lilly, PA. My father was born about three miles away in Portage.

245 jaunte  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:13:42pm

The photographer in the pink spray paint ballet is Pamela Hall, "spokesperson for Stop the Madrassa."
[Link: www.google.com...]

The Anti-Muslim Machine
[Link: killingthebuddha.com...]

246 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:13:49pm

re: #239 Targetpractice

It was an honest question, but the answer makes no sense. If somebody engages in free speech or expression, why should I limit my criticism? If they say or engage in something I deem offensive, why should I allow it to stand?

Try this: What Is Classical Liberalism?

Fundamental Rights Imply Negative Obligations. Joe's right to build a swing set obligates others to stay out of the way. It does not obligate others to help Joe — by furnishing labor, materials, etc. So, Joes' right creates negative obligations for others, not positive ones. All fundamental rights imply negative obligations in this way.

For example, the right to free speech implies a (negative) obligation on the part of others not to interfere with your speaking. It does not create the (positive) obligation to provide you with a platform, a microphone and an audience. The right to freedom of the press implies a (negative) obligation for others not to interfere with your publishing. It does not create the (positive) obligation to provide you with newsprint, ink and a printing press. The right to freedom of assembly creates the (negative) obligation for others not to interfere with your association with others. It does not create the (positive) obligation to furnish you with an assembly hall.

It's also related to the concept of the social contract that you might remember from high school civics classes. I'm not sure if they teach it anymore, the concept seems alien to most folks these days.

247 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:14:46pm

re: #244 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I know about Lilly, PA. My father was born about three miles away in Portage.

They were still talking about it when I was a kid. Wonder if there are any songs?

248 jaunte  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:16:49pm
Organized by Stop the Islamization of America, the first rally against the “Ground Zero mosque” was held in a plaza near the site of the Twin Towers on June 6th—D-Day. “We are not hatemongerers!” Pamela Hall proclaimed from the podium. “We just want our families and our future to be safe from the racist, bigoted ideology that murdered 3,000 people.” In the crowd, signs ranged from “Everything I need to know about Islam, I learned on 9/11” to crude drawings of Mohammed with the label “beast.”

Toward the end of the rally, two dark-skinned men were overheard speaking Arabic. The crowd transformed into an angry mob, surrounded the men, and shouted, “go home” and “get out.” The Bergen Record reported that the two scared men, Joseph Nasralla and Karam El Masry, had to be extricated by police. It turned out they weren’t even Muslim. They were Egyptian Coptic Christians who’d trekked cross-country from California to join the cause against the “Ground Zero mosque.” Nasralla later told John Hawkins of Right Wing News that the Record coverage was indeed accurate, adding that he’d been shoved and his camera knocked to the ground. “He said he was worried that things might have really gotten out of hand if the police hadn’t escorted him and Karam El Masry away,” Hawkins wrote.
[Link: killingthebuddha.com...]

249 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:17:03pm

re: #247 Decatur Deb

They were still talking about it when I was a kid. Wonder if there are any songs?

Good question. I should ask some of my cousins about that. Large family, generally older than me, and have relatives in the Portage and Johnstown area still. Including a cousin once removed living in my grandparent's old house.

(Goes to send out a few emails.)

250 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:17:05pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

Try this: What Is Classical Liberalism?

It's also related to the concept of the social contract that you might remember from high school civics classes. I'm not sure if they teach it anymore, the concept seems alien to most folks these days.

So then yes, you believe that freedom of speech and expression come with an inherent freedom from criticism. Or rather that criticism must be restricted purely to voicing an opposing opinion without taking any action whatsoever.

251 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:19:14pm

Without civil disobedience, Alabama would still have Jim Crow laws.

252 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:19:53pm

re: #251 Charles Johnson

Without civil disobedience, Alabama would still have Jim Crow laws.

Gandhi

253 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:20:02pm

re: #72 Charles Johnson

Dick Morris reminds me of a toad with a fully functioning human brain.

{SIREN.GIF}
BREAKING: CHARLES JOHNSON ENDORSES CHRISTINE O'DONNELL!

254 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:20:02pm

Boston Tea Party

255 Lidane  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:20:57pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

Classical liberalism doesn't exist anymore. It was co-opted ages ago by the Libertarians.

256 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:23:27pm

re: #217 Charles Johnson

Coulter's really been trying to say something newsworthy lately. Now she's progressed to blatant race-baiting. She probably has another unreadable book coming out.

In fact it just came out TODAY. Go figure.

257 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:24:23pm

re: #253 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

{SIREN.GIF}
BREAKING: CHARLES JOHNSON ENDORSES CHRISTINE O'DONNELL!

He got better...

258 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:24:25pm

It seems that classical Liberalism is saying that economic boycotts are legit, since the right to free speech doesn't create a (positive) obligation on others to buy one's chicken.

259 jaunte  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:26:34pm
260 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:26:53pm

Hey Gus - you got a link at Glenn Beck's crazy right wing website:

[Link: www.theblaze.com...]

Whoever wrote that must not have gotten the memo about linking to LGF.

261 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:27:30pm

re: #252 Gus

Gandhi

Wasn't there a SF story that sort of pointed out that Gandhi was lucky he was dealing with the British Empire and not something like the Germans?

(I suspect it was probably GRR Martin - will see if I can find it.)

(Edit)
Hit it right off in Google.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Harry Turtledove though, not Martin.

262 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:28:24pm

re: #255 Lidane

Classical liberalism doesn't exist anymore. It was co-opted ages ago by the Libertarians.

It's kept alive quite well by the Supreme Court. Not many seem to understand it anymore but the courts keep the philosophy alive quite well.

263 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:29:18pm

re: #260 Charles Johnson

Hey Gus - you got a link at Glenn Beck's crazy right wing website:

[Link: www.theblaze.com...]

Whoever wrote that must not have gotten the memo about linking to LGF.

Ha! Right at the bottom. Well, at least whoever wrote that is willing to think about the double standards. Maybe. I see the Obama camp finally gave up on this graphic. Oh well.

264 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:31:19pm

re: #261 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Wasn't there a SF story that sort of pointed out that Gandhi was lucky he was dealing with the British Empire and not something like the Germans?

(I suspect it was probably GRR Martin - will see if I can find it.)

Harry Turtledove, short story titled "The Last Article." Gandhi tries the same nonviolent approach to the Nazis as he did to the British, but instead watches as they have no problem gunning down civilians. When he's finally drug before Walther Model, the military governor of India, he's basically told that the Nazis have no qualms about killing those they view as inferior and that they will brook no disobedience. He's then executed without a second thought.

265 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:31:45pm

re: #261 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Wasn't there a SF story that sort of pointed out that Gandhi was lucky he was dealing with the British Empire and not something like the Germans?

(I suspect it was probably GRR Martin - will see if I can find it.)

Got me.

266 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:32:49pm

re: #265 Gus

Got me.

Targetpractice got it. And I found it quite easily using Google. There's a wikipedia link to the story's page on my comment now.

267 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:33:31pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

It's kept alive quite well by the Supreme Court. Not many seem to understand it anymore but the courts keep the philosophy alive quite well.

Why have I got this dreadful feeling that you're speaking of Citizens United?

268 dragonath  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:34:24pm

Money! Free Speech! It's fungible!!

269 JamesWI  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:37:26pm

re: #262 Killgore Trout

It's kept alive quite well by the Supreme Court. Not many seem to understand it anymore but the courts keep the philosophy alive quite well.

Funny, when I was in law school, I can't remember studying the case that said private citizens boycotting a company violated anyone's free speech. Could you provide a citation on that one, buddy?

270 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:37:27pm

Hey Charles. I have this weird bug were if I open a comment that I updinged in a new tab it shows up as though I down dinged it.

Image: Screen-Cap.jpg

271 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:38:10pm

re: #268 dragonath

Money! Free Speech! It's fungible!!

Founders were more "one acre, one vote" people I think.

272 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:39:45pm

re: #270 Gus

Hey Charles. I have this weird bug were if I open a comment that I updinged in a new tab it shows up as though I down dinged it.

Image: Screen-Cap.jpg

Yep...me too, but it won't let me upding you again.

273 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:40:37pm

re: #272 darthstar

Yep...me too, but it won't let me upding you again.

Yep. Same here. I spazzed and went to hit plus and then that pop-up message comes up.

274 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:40:45pm

re: #270 Gus

Hey Charles. I have this weird bug were if I open a comment that I updinged in a new tab it shows up as though I down dinged it.

Image: Screen-Cap.jpg

Planted to keep the chosen out of the bottom comments.

275 dragonath  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:41:03pm

re: #271 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Stephen Van Rensselaer III, American feudal lord

276 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:41:05pm

re: #272 darthstar

Yep...me too, but it won't let me upding you again.

Image: Screen_Shot_2012-09-25_at_6.40.16_PM.png

277 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:42:06pm

re: #276 darthstar

Image: Screen_Shot_2012-09-25_at_6.40.16_PM.png

Yep. Same thing.

278 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:42:15pm

Night Lizards.

Many things have been posted today. Some I have responded to.

If you agree with me, thanks. If not, Fine

Life is a fucking Bitch and She will screw you over every chance She gets.

Never forget that

279 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:44:53pm

re: #270 Gus

Hey Charles. I have this weird bug were if I open a comment that I updinged in a new tab it shows up as though I down dinged it.

Image: Screen-Cap.jpg

i'm gonna miss being a programmer when and if i ever retire

fixing bugs is better than crosswords

280 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:47:29pm

re: #270 Gus

Hey Charles. I have this weird bug were if I open a comment that I updinged in a new tab it shows up as though I down dinged it.

Image: Screen-Cap.jpg

Fixed!

281 Digital Display  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:48:02pm

re: #278 Bubblehead II

Night Lizards.

Many things have been posted today. Some I have responded to.

If you agree with me, thanks. If not, Fine

Life is a fucking Bitch and She will screw you over every chance She gets.

Never forget that

Life is your window to the world. I think the beauty of life expresses itself every day to us. She doesn't screw you..She just walks away.

282 Gus  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:49:30pm

re: #280 Charles Johnson

Fixed!

Thx. Good as new.

283 darthstar  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:50:42pm

re: #280 Charles Johnson

Fixed!

Verified.

284 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 6:59:41pm

re: #279 engineer cat

i'm gonna miss being a programmer when and if i ever retire

fixing bugs is better than crosswords

And I am at the other end of that. I have been doing the computer thing for 30+ years and in the last year I catch myself thinking that I would like to make a career change. Just can't think of anything that I would want to do that I want to spend more years in college. Maybe in a few more years when the youngest is well into his teens then I will make the jump, maybe.

285 engineer cat  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 7:24:55pm

re: #284 Eventual Carrion

And I am at the other end of that. I have been doing the computer thing for 30+ years and in the last year I catch myself thinking that I would like to make a career change. Just can't think of anything that I would want to do that I want to spend more years in college. Maybe in a few more years when the youngest is well into his teens then I will make the jump, maybe.

i've been doing it for 27 years mself. it's the only craft i know and i don't know any other way of making this good a living

besides, it's fun

i'd like to try something else, though, maybe even before i retire, like for example writing history

286 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 7:39:45pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

I remember Locke & the social contract quite well. They're the foundation of socialism far more than economics of Marx.

I also know that the biggest use of "classical liberalism" in the modern world is to avoid having to oppose evil. It's a sad sick old shade of what real liberalism, past or present, is. But I suppose that's too rapey-stabey for you. Feh

287 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 7:44:40pm

re: #285 engineer cat

i've been doing it for 27 years mself. it's the only craft i know and i don't know any other way of making this good a living

besides, it's fun

i'd like to try something else, though, maybe even before i retire, like for example writing history

I like computers. But I love photography.

I don't miss working a day job in the computer biz.

But if I could never hold a camera again? Just kill me on the spot.

Give me my Rolleicord, my meter & a couple of rolls of ISO100 film & I'll be a happy camper.

288 ozbloke  Tue, Sep 25, 2012 8:10:01pm

Russian truck driver miraculously escapes head-on collision


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