MO GOP Caveman Todd Akin Not Backing Down on Claim That Women Who Aren’t Pregnant Are Getting Abortions

What GOP war on women?
Wingnuts • Views: 25,769

Meanwhile, in the other major sideshow going on in the Republican Party, Missouri caveman Todd Akin is in the news again because of a 2008 speech on the House floor in which he stated that doctors sometimes give abortions to women “who are not actually pregnant.”

Note that in this crazed speech, Akin also equated doctors who perform abortions with terrorists, and accused them of all kinds of disgusting and evil practices.

As a true right wing Neanderthal, Akin never backs down, of course. But his Senate campaign handlers are trying to put a slightly less insane spin on it today by saying Akin does realize that women who are not pregnant cannot, by definition, have abortions.

According to the spinmeisters, what Akin meant to say was that abortion doctors often trick patients into thinking they’re pregnant, then fake abortion procedures for the money.

Why this is supposed to be less insane than giving abortions to women who aren’t pregnant, I don’t know.

Washington, D.C. — Rep. Todd Akin’s campaign is standing by the Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Missouri’s 2008 claim that doctors commonly perform abortions on women who “are not actually pregnant.”

Akin’s evidence consists of a news report from 1978 and the claims of a former Planned Parenthood official, a spokesman said.

“There’s ample evidence that abortion doctors on any number of occasions have deceived women into thinking that they’re pregnant, and then collect money for a procedure that they don’t perform,” said Rick Tyler, a spokesperson for Akin’s campaign. “And I say they don’t perform it because obviously the women weren’t pregnant.”

Tyler cited a 1978 investigation by the Chicago Sun-Times that claimed that dozens of “abortion mills” were performing unnecessary abortions for profit.

There is scarce other, or more recent, documentation of alleged unnecessary abortions for profit. Asked if Akin thinks unnecessary abortion procedures are still a major problem, Tyler said, “Who would know? No one reports on it anymore.”

As clownish as it may appear, we need to realize that Todd Akin doesn’t come up with this stuff by himself. The kind of evil misogynist propaganda he’s putting into the Congressional record comes straight from the anti-choice religious right.

Jump to bottom

218 comments
1 Destro  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:31:40pm

The right wing seems to double down on their madness if challenged rather than apologize or correct themselves.

2 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:32:19pm

So let me get this straight. There are "abortion doctors" who just randomly pick women and convince them they are pregnant in order to get them to have fake abortions so the dr. can make money? Uh....yeah....right.

3 Bulworth  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:32:36pm

If an abortion falls in the forest but no pregnancy is there to hear it, can we haz prolife?

4 jhrhv  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:33:01pm

How could anyone be dumb enough to vote for this person?

The qualifications to get the job he is applying for should be set higher than having a pulse.

5 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:33:51pm

Nope, the hole isn't deep enough. Gonna keep digging.

6 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:33:52pm

If the "for profit" is the repugnant part, maybe we could have socialized medicine or something, so the doctors aren't paid more for more procedures.

7 Bulworth  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:34:08pm

If 25% of all abortions performed were not actually abortions of pregnant women, can we still vote for Obama? //

8 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:35:53pm

"War on all those imaginary women who are eager to pay for unnecessary, uncomfortable medical procedures"

9 Mattand  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:37:40pm

re: #1 Destro

The right wing seems to double down on their madness if challenged rather than apologize or correct themselves.

You know why? It works. It strengthens the resolve of the people who depsperately want it to be true. Also, the conservatives that know it's a load of shit shrug their shoulders and go "Yeah, but whadyagonnado?"

I really detest the latter group at times, because they're either completely cool with trying to win through lying, or too chickenshit to call out this garbage for what it is.

10 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:38:13pm

In order for this to happen:

Women would have to be really ignorant as to whether they were pregnant.

They'd have to actually want the abortion.

They'd have to be able to pay for it, meaning they couldn't be dirt-broke or under eighteen. If they were under eighteen, their parents might get involved and that'd quickly expose a practice like that.

The nurses and staff would probably have to be in on it too. Not impossible, but improbable.

Etc.

Seems really unlikely to happen with any frequency. It's a terrible risk to run for a relatively small amount of money.

11 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:38:21pm

Who wants a little recreational D&C? WTF?

12 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:38:30pm

re: #6 wrenchwench

If the "for profit" is the repugnant part, maybe we could have socialized medicine or something, so the doctors aren't paid more for more procedures.

Notice that extra level of petty derangement in the projection of greed applied to doctors, money grubbers who will commit fraud for nothing other than to line their pockets.

13 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:39:20pm

re: #5 Kronocide

Nope, the hole isn't deep enough. Gonna keep digging.

Someone in his campaign leaked an internal poll that he's down by 7.

14 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:40:30pm

re: #10 The Toast Of God Fload Jeas

In order for this to happen:

Women would have to be really ignorant as to whether they were pregnant.

They'd have to actually want the abortion.

They'd have to be able to pay for it, meaning they couldn't be dirt-broke or under eighteen. If they were under eighteen, their parents might get involved and that'd quickly expose a practice like that.

The nurses and staff would probably have to be in on it too. Not impossible, but improbable.

Etc.

Seems really unlikely to happen with any frequency. It's a terrible risk to run for a relatively small amount of money.

Not only that, but what they remove is sent to a lab to make sure they got the pregnancy. The lab would have to be in on it too.

15 Mattand  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:41:01pm

re: #13 darthstar

Someone in his campaign leaked an internal poll that he's down by 7.

In a just world, this clown would be down by 70%, not 7%.

Know what? Scratch that. In a just world, Republicans would have enough class and honor to not let this guy near any elected office.

16 Bulworth  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:41:21pm
Akin’s evidence consists of a news report from 1978 and the claims of a former Planned Parenthood official, a spokesman said.

That might explain a lot.

17 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:41:23pm

re: #12 Kronocide

Notice that extra level of petty derangement in the projection of greed applied to doctors, money grubbers who will commit fraud for nothing other than to line their pockets.

Money is all they understand. They don't understand compassion.

18 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:41:56pm

re: #13 darthstar

Someone in his campaign leaked an internal poll that he's down by 7.

Only 7?

19 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:42:08pm

re: #11 darthstar

Who wants a little recreational D&C? WTF?

Maybe it comes with a bottle of Cognac?

20 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:42:34pm

Presumably this is just to make us all realize how evil abortionists are.

Just a quick question for all the moms out there-did you really need a test to tell you that you were pregnant? Especially after you'd experienced it once? I sure didn't, but maybe it can sneak up on some women.

21 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:43:33pm

His source is an article from 1978. That alone should disqualify him from being anywhere near elective office, especially after his "legitimate rape" derp.

To add to this nonsense, Akin is on the Committee on Science, Space and Technology. What. The. FUCK. He uses 34 year old newspaper articles as a source and has already demonstrated total ignorance of human biology and reproduction, and he's on the science committee?

22 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:43:35pm

re: #15 Mattand

In a just world, this clown would be down by 70%, not 7%.

Know what? Scratch that. In a just world, Republicans would have enough class and honor to not let this guy near any elected office.

No kidding. In a just world, this guy isn't even an elected official. He's clearly deranged.

23 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:44:04pm

re: #20 calochortus

Presumably this is just to make us all realize how evil abortionists are.

Just a quick question for all the moms out there-did you really need a test to tell you that you were pregnant? Especially after you'd experienced it once? I sure didn't, but maybe it can sneak up on some women.

Most men have never been pregnant but can frequently tell when their significant other is.

24 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:45:35pm

re: #18 HappyWarrior

Only 7?

Internal GOP polling - meant to give the candidate confidence. Not working.

25 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:45:41pm

re: #16 Bulworth

That might explain a lot.

The 1978 report was part of an expose by the Chicago Sun-Times, of illegal abortion providers, and yes, apparently at least one did convince un-pregnant women to have the procedure. Now, if a medical procedure should be outlawed because someone, somewhere, some time abused patients, modern medicine is going to be hard up.

26 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:45:55pm

re: #14 wrenchwench

Not only that, but what they remove is sent to a lab to make sure they got the pregnancy. The lab would have to be in on it too.

I'm guessing Akin's people could find one or two cases of crooks who did fake diagnoses on young, scared, naive women. There would be no real procedure, labs, or anything but a billing. This is equivalent to the 1-2 cases of funeral directors who stashed bodies they were paid to bury.

27 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:46:36pm

re: #21 Lidane

His source is an article from 1978. That alone should disqualify him from being anywhere near elective office, especially after his "legitimate rape" derp.

To add to this nonsense, Akin is on the Committee on Science, Space and Technology. What. The. FUCK. He uses 34 year old newspaper articles as a source and has already demonstrated total ignorance of human biology and reproduction, and he's on the science committee?

Canada's Minister of State for Science & Technology is Gary Goodyear, a creationist Chiropractor.

I'm so ashamed.

28 Mattand  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:47:29pm

re: #23 reflections of a raging redneck

Most men have never been pregnant but can frequently tell when their significant other is.

Most?

29 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:48:45pm

Seems like in baseball news, Teddy Roosevelt finally won a race at the Nationals stadium. I still think they should run four medicore or at least lesser known presidents so I get the chance to point out how much Rutherford B. Hayes resembles the shovel guy from the first Home Alone.Image: 129166860389573541.jpg

30 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:48:52pm

re: #28 Mattand

Most?

Maybe he knows something we don't?

31 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:49:03pm

re: #28 Mattand

Most?

Depends on whether the right NFL or NBA teams are in the playoffs.

32 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:50:44pm

re: #30 calochortus

Maybe he knows something we don't?

No, no, I'll stop! Don't puke in the car! At least open the frikkin window!
Crap, too late.

33 nines09  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:54:56pm

"Hello. I'm Todd Aiken and I'd like to talk about undiagnosed head trauma. If anything I say makes sense to you, you are probably suffering from it."

34 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:55:16pm
35 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:56:45pm

re: #34 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Ha.

36 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:59:13pm

Science!

Reminder: David Barton wrote and passed 70 of 71 planks in the national Republican platform.

37 Tigger2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 12:59:25pm

re: #34 darthstar

[Embedded content]

If Romney worked for Trump, Trump would fire him.

38 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:00:06pm

re: #36 Lidane

Science!

[Embedded content]

Reminder: David Barton wrote 70 of the 71 planks in the national Republican platform.

God needs to see DNA evidence? What ever happened to omniscient?

39 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:00:31pm

Again, Todd Akin doesn't come up with this stuff by himself, folks. The kind of evil deceptive propaganda he's putting into the Congressional record comes straight from the anti-choice religious right.

40 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:01:14pm

re: #36 Lidane

Science!

[Embedded content]

Reminder: David Barton wrote and passed 70 of 71 planks in the national Republican platform.

Yeah, good point about Barton's influence on the GOP platform. This guy is really fucked up.

41 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:01:33pm

Enthusiasm gap.

42 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:01:43pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

Again, Todd Akin doesn't come up with this stuff by himself, folks. The kind of evil deceptive propaganda he's putting into the Congressional record comes straight from the anti-choice religious right.

Yes, he's not an outlier.

43 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:02:07pm

re: #38 calochortus

God needs to see DNA evidence? What ever happened to omniscient?

It's even dumber than that. In the Bible, Cain and Abel were Adam and Eve's children. Cain was the first human born and Abel the first one to die. It's not like God had to look all that far to see what the hell happened.

44 William of Orange  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:02:14pm

Memo to Akin:

Youtube can be such a bitch sometimes.

Oh, and something about proof and such...

45 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:02:34pm

re: #42 HappyWarrior

Yes, he's not an outlier.

He's just an out-and-out liar.

46 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:03:33pm

re: #45 wrenchwench

He's just an out-and-out liar.

Cha-Ching.

47 William of Orange  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:04:25pm

re: #46 HappyWarrior

Cha-Ching.

Out of touch...

48 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:04:44pm

re: #36 Lidane

Science!

[Embedded content]

Reminder: David Barton wrote and passed 70 of 71 planks in the national Republican platform.

Barton has a round peg and is trying to force it to fit every hole he sees.

(No sexual innuendo intended)

49 Tigger2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:06:09pm

re: #41 darthstar

Enthusiasm gap.

[Embedded content]

Did those 45 people come with the bus./

50 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:07:09pm

re: #41 darthstar

Enthusiasm gap.

[Embedded content]

Who in his/her right mind would ever go up against Michelle Obama?

She`ll be president in 8 years.

51 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:09:18pm

re: #48 reflections of a raging redneck

Barton has a round peg and is trying to force it to fit every hole he sees.

Kinky.

//

52 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:10:24pm

After all these years they're still flogging this dead horse?

53 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:11:40pm

re: #9 Mattand

You know why? It works. It strengthens the resolve of the people who depsperately want it to be true. Also, the conservatives that know it's a load of shit shrug their shoulders and go "Yeah, but whadyagonnado?"

I really detest the latter group at times, because they're either completely cool with trying to win through lying, or too chickenshit to call out this garbage for what it is.

Not trying to flame here, but folks like D_F fall under this category; they want Their Team to win so badly, they are, more often than not, willing to ignore or excuse away absolute horseshit that makes those of us who are not so "RAH RAH RAH" about today's GOP go "OMFGWTF?!?"

54 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:12:20pm
55 TooManyJens  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:12:22pm

re: #25 calochortus

The 1978 report was part of an expose by the Chicago Sun-Times, of illegal abortion providers, and yes, apparently at least one did convince un-pregnant women to have the procedure. Now, if a medical procedure should be outlawed because someone, somewhere, some time abused patients, modern medicine is going to be hard up.

Yes, it's certainly possible to perform a D&C on a woman who's not pregnant, so the "how is that possible" reactions are a little uninformed. (It is also possible for symptoms to be ambiguous enough that a woman doesn't know if she's pregnant or not. Totally possible.) But to take one newspaper article from 34 years ago and extrapolate that this is a common practice today is just nuts. I'm sure Akin himself never looked into the subject -- as with the "no pregnancy from rape" thing, he believed what he was told without question because it supported what he already thought.

57 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:13:43pm

re: #52 Lidane

After all these years they're still flogging this dead horse?

[Embedded content]

Are they saying Clinton did no search for skeletons in Obama`s closet during the primaries?

58 mr.fusion  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:13:54pm
Todd currently serves on the following Committees and Subcommittees:

[...]

Science Committee

If any bit of info ever actually deserved an eleventy.....I think this is it

59 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:15:46pm

re: #57 reflections of a raging redneck

Are they saying Clinton did no search for skeletons in Obama`s closet during the primaries?

Yeah they are. Which is so laughable.

60 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:16:38pm

re: #57 reflections of a raging redneck

they most likely did but BO warned them he'd off Chelsea if they said anything.

//

61 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:17:02pm

re: #52 Lidane

another Fox News failure......Limbaugh: Obama Is The "First President In History That There Was No Investigative Journalism Done On"

— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) October 3, 2012

They think all the media do investigation the way Fox News does.

62 Kronocide  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:17:08pm

re: #58 mr.fusion

If any bit of info ever actually deserved an eleventy.....I think this is it

Republican Members (23)

Ralph M. Hall, Texas
F. James Sensenbrenner, Wisconsin
Lamar S. Smith, Texas
Dana Rohrabacher, California
Roscoe G. Bartlett, Maryland
Frank D. Lucas, Oklahoma
Judy Biggert, Illinois
W. Todd Akin, Missouri
Randy Neugebauer, Texas
Michael T. McCaul, Texas
Paul Broun, Georgia
Sandy Adams, Florida
Benjamin Quayle, Arizona
Charles J. "Chuck" Fleischmann, Tennessee
Scott Rigell, Virginia
Steven Palazzo, Mississippi
Mo Brooks, Alabama
Andy Harris, M.D., Maryland
Randy Hultgren, Illinois
Chip Cravaack, Minnesota
Larry Bucshon, Indiana
Dan Benishek, Michigan
VACANCY

63 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:18:16pm

re: #36 Lidane

Science!

Reminder: David Barton wrote and passed 70 of 71 planks in the national Republican platform.

So he's helping the South Park boys built a tower to Heaven with them I presume.

64 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:18:18pm

re: #55 TooManyJens

Yes, it's certainly possible to perform a D&C on a woman who's not pregnant, so the "how is that possible" reactions are a little uninformed.

Not really. If a woman is going into a doctor's office for a D&C, she generally knows why it's going to happen. It's a surgical procedure. That requires a woman knowing in advance what is going to happen to her body, why it's going to happen, and even things like pre-surgery consultations and fasting the night before the procedure.

These days, it's used for things like abnormal uterine bleeding or cancer screenings or other reasons that have nothing to do with abortion. And it's just not possible for a woman to walk into surgery like a D&C without knowing if she's pregnant or not.

65 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:20:07pm
66 Destro  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:20:53pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

Charles, on another note will there be a live debate thread here?

67 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:21:38pm

re: #55 TooManyJens

I doubt it was common practice even in 1978.

68 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:21:43pm
69 Digital Display  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:22:02pm

I was in the Ozarks for the weekend when Atkins was on every channel about his legitimate rape remark. The DNC ran a devastating ad about him and I posted here that no one could survive such a biting political ad.
I stand by that post.

70 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:22:55pm

re: #69 Digital Display

I was in the Ozarks for the weekend when Atkins was on every channel about his legitimate rape remark. The DNC ran a devastating ad about him and I posted here that no one could survive such a biting political ad.
I stand by that post.

I hope you're right.

71 Bulworth  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:23:39pm
another Fox News failure......Limbaugh: Obama Is The "First President In History That There Was No Investigative Journalism Done On"
— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) October 3, 2012

Yeah, why couldn't Faux dig up his elementary school transcripts? //

For RWNJ, "no investigative journalism was done" = "Our claims about his birth certificate were proved false."

72 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:23:54pm

re: #68 Sheila Broflovski

Okay, that was funny. Slightly off-color, but funny.

73 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:25:44pm

re: #66 Destro

Charles, on another note will there be a live debate thread here?

You betcha!

74 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:26:10pm

re: #64 Lidane

Not really. If a woman is going into a doctor's office for a D&C, she generally knows why it's going to happen. It's a surgical procedure. That requires a woman knowing in advance what is going to happen to her body, why it's going to happen, and even things like pre-surgery consultations and fasting the night before the procedure.

These days, it's used for things like abnormal uterine bleeding or cancer screenings or other reasons that have nothing to do with abortion. And it's just not possible for a woman to walk into surgery like a D&C without knowing if she's pregnant or not.

In "those days" it was used for the same purposes. However, I think the point was that the woman would know she was getting a d&c, she would just have been told she was pregnant beforehand when she wasn't.

75 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:27:36pm

re: #41 darthstar

Enthusiasm gap.

[Embedded content]

People like Mitt are the reason we call this the rust belt.

76 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:28:34pm

Gangnam Style without music is awesome.

77 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:30:10pm

re: #52 Lidane

After all these years they're still flogging this dead horse?

[Embedded content]

So I guess the "Clinton Machine" was just BS...
A lie isn't a lie when You believe it.

78 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:30:24pm

re: #65 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

ROFLMAO Mitt Romney Style

That was great.
I about peed my sweats.

79 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:33:51pm

re: #76 Charles Johnson

Gangnam Style without music is awesome.

[Embedded content]

It's an improvement, at least.

80 dragonfire1981  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:34:04pm
81 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:35:25pm

re: #76 Charles Johnson

Gangnam Style without music is awesome.

[Embedded content]

All I know is, somebody needed a bra.
And it wasn't one of the ladies...

82 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:35:48pm

re: #80 dragonfire1981

Huh? Soldiers ordered to NOT shoot Taliban

I'll wait for a different source and won't give the Fail my pageview.

83 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:35:57pm

re: #74 calochortus

In "those days" it was used for the same purposes. However, I think the point was that the woman would know she was getting a d&c, she would just have been told she was pregnant beforehand when she wasn't

See, I don't buy that. Home pregnancy tests went on the market in the 1970's. Women had the ability to know if they were pregnant or not before going to a doctor's office, and before getting a D&C or any other uterine procedure, a pregnancy test would be fairly standard.

I don't see how a woman could walk into surgery and not know definitively if she was pregnant or not.

84 Digital Display  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:36:04pm

re: #65 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

ROFLMAO Mitt Romney Style

That was freaking awesome! I'm sending it to my peeps.

85 dragonfire1981  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:36:58pm

re: #82 erik_t

I'll wait for a different source and won't give the Fail my pageview.

Fail huh? I guess I should have looked into the source a little more though when I saw the site name it did seem vaguely familiar...

86 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:37:45pm

re: #80 dragonfire1981

Huh? Soldiers ordered to NOT shoot Taliban

I call BS.

87 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:41:58pm

Election to Decide Future Interrogation Methods in Terrorism Cases

The Romney campaign document, obtained by The New York Times, is a five-page policy paper titled “Interrogation Techniques.” It was a near-final draft circulated last September among the Romney campaign’s “national security law subcommittee” for any further comments before it was to be submitted to Mr. Romney. The panel consists of a brain trust of conservative lawyers, most of whom are veterans of the George W. Bush administration.

The Romney campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

The policy paper acknowledges that it is hard to know what would be different had Mr. Bush’s interrogation policy continued. But it argues that Mr. Obama’s approach has “hampered (or will hamper) the fight against terrorism” by forbidding techniques “that we should feel, as a nation, that we have a right to use against our enemies.”

In particular, it criticizes Mr. Obama for restricting interrogators to a “one-size-fits-all approach” designed for routine battlefield captures by ordinary soldiers, not high-level terrorist operatives in the custody of the Central Intelligence Agency. It also notes that the Army Field Manual is available on the Internet, so enemies can study it.

Last December, Mr. Romney was asked about waterboarding at a town-hall meeting in Charleston. He replied that he would “do what is essential to protect the lives of the American people” but would not list “for our enemies around the world” what techniques the United States would use.

Mr. Romney also declared that he would “not authorize torture.” At the news conference afterward, a reporter pressed him to say whether he thought waterboarding was torture, and Mr. Romney replied, “I don’t.”

No only morally repulsive, but another blow for anti-science.

Torture doesn't work as a means of extracting information because it's too easy to implant ideas, and there's no way to discern when someone's broken enough to tell the truth. "Enhanced interrogation" through stress technique doesn't work because prolonged stress destroys the memory pretty damn quick, on top of the same prompting/appeasement issues that straight up inflicting pain cause.. The Bush torture program was created by inverting what US troops were expected to experience if tortured...but the key element overlooked is their captors tended to demand compliance--feeding them lines or a narrative--not truth.

This position paper is anti-science to the core, a kind of America-fuck-yeah-ism wherein efficacy is confabulated with ease, and "any means necessary" is mistaken for viable results.

To hell with everyone involved. Waterboarding is fucking torture.

88 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:42:14pm

re: #83 Lidane

See, I don't buy that. Home pregnancy tests went on the market in the 1970's. Women had the ability to know if they were pregnant or not before going to a doctor's office, and before getting a D&C or any other uterine procedure, a pregnancy test would be fairly standard.

I don't see how a woman could walk into surgery and not know definitively if she was pregnant or not.

I would like to not buy it either, but I have given up trying to underestimate the common sense that exists in the human population of this great land (and every other great land.) You would know if you were pregnant. I would know if I was. But presumably this clinic/these clinics were not catering to the best and the brightest.

89 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:44:57pm

BTW, It seems NJD was correct this morning about the consulate in Bengahzi warning of an attack.
Sensitive documents left behind at American mission in Libya

At least one document found amid the clutter indicates that Americans at the mission were discussing the possibility of an attack in early September, just two days before the assault took place. The document is a memorandum dated Sept. 9 from the U.S. mission’s security office to the 17th February Martyrs Brigade, the Libyan-government-sanctioned militia that was guarding the compound, making plans for a “quick reaction force,” or QRF, that would provide security.

“In the event of an attack on the U.S. Mission,” the document states, “QRF will request additional support from the 17th February Martyrs Brigade.”

90 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:44:58pm

re: #87 The Ghost of a Flea

I wish I could upding this a dozen more times.
Torture is the issue that finally made me give up on the GOP.

I don't think I had actually voted for a GOP candidate in a general election in years, but I was a registered Republican hoping against hope for a return to sanity. But torture? I just couldn't stay in the party.

91 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:45:59pm
92 Digital Display  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:46:16pm

re: #87 The Ghost of a Flea

To hell with everyone involved. Waterboarding is fucking torture.

At first I was unsure years ago. Then John McCain said it was torture, Since then I put my belief on that it is indeed torture.

93 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:46:48pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

No, Killgore, that's about general security. Read it again.

It's talking about the general possibility of an attack, not a specific one.

Did you just not understand that what NJD asserted was a specific warning about the attack?

94 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:47:14pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

BTW, It seems NJD was correct this morning about the consulate in Bengahzi warning of an attack.
Sensitive documents left behind at American mission in Libya

They discuss the possibility of attack before every Sept. 11th. That still doesn't say they had a warning.

95 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:47:38pm
96 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:47:56pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

BTW, It seems NJD was correct this morning about the consulate in Bengahzi warning of an attack.
Sensitive documents left behind at American mission in Libya

This is meaningless without an understanding how how regularly they discuss the possibility of an attack. In a vacuum, I would fully expect (say) a routine monthly meeting to discuss the possibility of an attack in the forthcoming month, looking at any factors that had changed in the last month.

97 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:48:17pm

re: #92 Digital Display

To hell with everyone involved. Waterboarding is fucking torture.

At first I was unsure years ago. Then John McCain said it was torture, Since then I put my belief on that it is indeed torture.

Hitchens didn't believe water boarding was torture until he went through it.

98 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:50:06pm

re: #95 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

Oh man!

99 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:50:48pm

There's a show on TLC called, "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant".
For some of those women, it wasn't even their first child.
However, after carrying two back to back, I have a hard time believing them.
It was probably more like "I didn't want to Know I was Pregnant".

100 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:51:00pm

re: #97 reflections of a raging redneck

Hitchens didn't believe water boarding was torture until he went through it.

And that's why Hitchens was a bigger man than those who live in a fantasy world where this world is a 24 episode.

101 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:51:39pm

re: #96 erik_t

This is meaningless without an understanding how how regularly they discuss the possibility of an attack. In a vacuum, I would fully expect (say) a routine monthly meeting to discuss the possibility of an attack in the forthcoming month, looking at any factors that had changed in the last month.

Agreed. These warnings, updates in security protocols are very common. I grew up in embassies overseas.

102 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:52:05pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

They were discussing the possibility of an attack. In general. Not a specific attack at a specific time.

103 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:52:22pm

Yeah, it could be true, but we'll never know...still, let the conspiracists rejoice.

[Link: www.veteranstoday.com...]

104 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:52:35pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

Agreed. These warnings, updates in security protocols are very common. I grew up in embassies overseas.

Then your statement above, "it seems NJD was correct this morning about the consulate in Bengahzi warning of an attack", is false.

105 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:53:15pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

So actually, no ... NJD was not correct.

106 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:53:32pm

re: #96 erik_t

This is meaningless without an understanding how how regularly they discuss the possibility of an attack. In a vacuum, I would fully expect (say) a routine monthly meeting to discuss the possibility of an attack in the forthcoming month, looking at any factors that had changed in the last month.

Even in relatively peaceful Israel, our DoD commander carried back weekly embassy security meeting assessments and we got daily/as needed emails. You checked them every Thursday before planning your weekend tour.

107 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:54:16pm
108 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:56:18pm

Crap.
My brother-in-law is not long back from Afghanistan.
PTSD
Sister-in-law is scared to death and is trying to get him to get counseling, but he refuses.

109 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:57:22pm

Hardball about to start...it's party time!

110 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:57:59pm

re: #108 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Crap.
My brother-in-law is not long back from Afghanistan.
PTSD
Sister-in-law is scared to death and is trying to get him to get counseling, but he refuses.

If he's still active duty, the nearby base has help for you. Call the Community and Family Support number.

111 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 1:59:49pm

Running for the US Senate. So easy a cave-man can do it!

:p

112 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:00:31pm

re: #108 Reverend Mother Ramallo

I'm so sorry. I hope everyone will get the help they need. It's especially hard to help those who "don't need help."

113 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:00:44pm

re: #99 Reverend Mother Ramallo

There's a show on TLC called, "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant".
For some of those women, it wasn't even their first child.
However, after carrying two back to back, I have a hard time believing them.
It was probably more like "I didn't want to Know I was Pregnant".

And remember the Royal Artillery gunner who recently gave birth in Afghanistan(?), having no previous idea that she was pregnant?

In general, I agree that it's more like "I didn't want to know" in most cases... but I also remember a staff meeting many years ago where one of the participants (who already had a child) mentioned that she'd been getting sick practically every morning (and was still carrying on at work... blah, blah) and none of us -- including her -- figured out what that might mean. Eventually, her doctor, having ruled out other things, tested her for pregnancy.

But she was only three or four months along. The number of women who haven't figured it out by month six must be miniscule.

114 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:02:51pm

re: #110 Decatur Deb

If he's still active duty, the nearby base has help for you. Call the Community and Family Support number.

And if he's not active duty, I would think the VA has some sort of help line or family outreach for the spouses and families of vets that are dealing with PTSD.

115 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:04:09pm

re: #105 Charles Johnson

So actually, no ... NJD was not correct.

Yes, and no. Just like the "al qaeda learns to fly" and other memos were real and did exist the context of security warnings and actionable intel is a matter of perspective. Ironically the winguts are playing the same "what did they know and when did they know it" games that the moonbats played with 9-11. I'm not a fan of playing partisan gotcha games with stuff like this but it's important to keep the facts straight. The area was a known al qaeda hot bed, the consulate was concerned about security and the possibility of attacks. In hindsight things could have been handled better but I don;t think the outcome would have been any different regardless of the party occupying the White House.

116 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:04:31pm

re: #114 Lidane

And if he's not active duty, I would think the VA has some sort of help line or family outreach for the spouses and families of vets that are dealing with PTSD.

Very likely (don't know that world). The local base could plug them in, so could dialling 211 if their state has it.

117 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:06:31pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

Yes, and no. Just like the "al qaeda learns to fly" and other memos were real and did exist...

So, Politifact rates it as "partly true". Thanks for staying consistent, I guess.

118 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:07:27pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

Yes, and no.

Actually, it's just no. Here's the exact claim:

It's coming out now that we were warned of a threat of an attack on the consulate days before and there was no increase in security.

That's not true. It's a right wing blog talking point with no evidence behind it. He wasn't correct.

119 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:09:53pm

re: #99 Reverend Mother Ramallo

There's a show on TLC called, "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant".
For some of those women, it wasn't even their first child.
However, after carrying two back to back, I have a hard time believing them.
It was probably more like "I didn't want to Know I was Pregnant".

I had a co-worker a few years ago who didn't have the slightest idea she was pregnant until she gave birth to a very tiny and very premature baby. My previous impression of someone who "doesn't know they're pregant" was that they are probably an enormous land whale with the IQ of wilted celery, but this particular woman was none of the above. So I still don't understand how you could manage not to know, but apparently it happens.

120 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:10:22pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Actually, it's just no. Here's the exact claim:

That's not true. It's a right wing blog talking point with no evidence behind it. He wasn't correct.

what they're seizing upon is that there were attack warnings in the region. What they're ignoring is that there was nothing - intensity, specificity, nothing - to indicate these were more valid than the hundreds received on an almost daily basis for the preceding year.

There's this frustration in intel. Everybody can see the Magic Memo, the critical intel, AFTER the event. Figuring out which out of thousands if not millions of other pieces is something else again.

121 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:11:22pm
122 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:12:47pm

re: #121 Lidane

I like how they phrased this as took a "shit" rather than "took a shit".

It's the little amusements in life, I guess.

123 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:13:36pm

re: #120 kirkspencer

what they're seizing upon is that there were attack warnings in the region. What they're ignoring is that there was nothing - intensity, specificity, nothing - to indicate these were more valid than the hundreds received on an almost daily basis for the preceding year.

There's this frustration in intel. Everybody can see the Magic Memo, the critical intel, AFTER the event. Figuring out which out of thousands if not millions of other pieces is something else again.

Doesn't stop the RWNJs from babbling "because it's Obama, that's why!!!11ty" incoherently, does it?

124 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:13:37pm

re: #120 kirkspencer

Exactly. There are always attack warnings, and there are always discussions about how to improve security. I've been following this story fairly closely and so far there has been absolutely no evidence that a specific warning of the Sept. 11 attack was received and ignored. None.

Right wing blogs, including Hot Air, have become totally worthless. They all promote lies these days, and the idea that the Obama administration deliberately ignored attack warnings is just one more lie.

125 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:13:57pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Actually, it's just no. Here's the exact claim:

That's not true. It's a right wing blog talking point with no evidence behind it. He wasn't correct.

It's a resounding no and based solely on the allegations from Republicans (cough) Issa and Chaffetz as I commented earlier. The investigation is underway by several departments including state and was mentioned today at a press conference with the secretary of state, Hillary Clinton.

126 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:14:53pm

re: #73 Charles Johnson

You betcha!

BYOB

127 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:15:59pm

RONALD REAGAN!!11ty!

Someone had to say it.

128 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:16:16pm

re: #125 Gus

It's a resounding no and based solely on the allegations from Republicans (cough) Issa and Chaffetz as I commented earlier. The investigation is underway by several departments including state and was mentioned today at a press conference with the secretary of state, Hillary Clinton.

Issa and Chaffetz?

Three more and the can form Stupid Conspiracy-Believing Voltron.

129 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:16:29pm

re: #111 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Running for the US Senate. So easy a cave-man can do it!

:p

Not cool, man!

//

130 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:16:43pm

I have some background in mental health, so part of my concern with my SIL is, she will only tell me this stuff through my husband.

I guess I can be too blunt about stuff, and I scare her. I've seen a lot of shit, so I'm really just trying to give her a sense of urgency.
I told her (through hubby) it sounded like PTST two months ago.

Thanks guys, the more info I have, the better.

131 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:16:47pm

Restless Romney.

Romney got virtually no sleep Monday night, an aide said, blaming a freight train that passed through a grade crossing near the hotel and blew it horn roughly every hour all through the night. The candidate's sleep deprivation so worried his staff that the campaign looked into switching hotels. The logistics were ultimately too tough, the aide said, and there was concern about how it would look.

132 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:16:54pm

re: #73 Charles

You betcha!

Where is the Wasilla wacko today anyway? I'd think her expert analysis would be in high demand.

133 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:17:05pm

re: #126 Gus

BYOB

What, we don't have keg ready to be tapped? Where are my dues going if not to booze?!

//

134 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:17:17pm

re: #128 The Ghost of a Flea

Issa and Chaffetz?

Three more and the can form Stupid Conspiracy-Believing Voltron.

Image: chaffetz-issa-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

135 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:18:12pm

re: #128 The Ghost of a Flea

Issa and Chaffetz?

Three more and the can form Stupid Conspiracy-Believing Voltron.

GO GO GOHMERT RANGERS

136 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:18:29pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Restless Romney.

So he might be going into a debate on next to no sleep? That's going to make remembering all those zingers a bit tougher.

137 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:18:39pm

re: #126 Gus

BYOB

Bring Your Own Brain?

Won't work so well for some of the RWNJs, dontchaknow...

///

138 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:19:20pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Awww! The Princess and the Pea...
If he wants to be president, he better get used to it.

139 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:20:16pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Restless Romney.

Proactively retroacting.

140 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:20:57pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Restless Romney.

When I'm going into a situation where I feel like I'm going to get my ass handed to me I don't sleep well either. But this was Monday night, not Tuesday. I assume they put Mitt on his back-up charging platform last night so he'll be in good shape tonight.

141 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:21:03pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Restless Romney.

Get some fucking earplugs like the rest of us poors.

142 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:21:26pm

re: #73 Charles Johnson

You betcha!

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

143 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:21:49pm
144 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:21:54pm

re: #141 erik_t

Get some fucking earplugs like the rest of us poors.

Hell, he could have bought the railroad and re-routed the train.
/

145 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:22:09pm
146 Cheechako  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:22:48pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Restless Romney.

Is this a pre-excuse for possible poor performance?

147 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:23:00pm

I assume restless Mitt is a preemptive excuse for nonsensical zingers.

148 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:23:08pm

re: #146 Cheechako

Is this a pre-excuse for possible poor performance?

That's what I was thinking.

149 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:23:29pm

re: #125 Gus

It's a resounding no and based solely on the allegations from Republicans (cough) Issa and Chaffetz as I commented earlier. The investigation is underway by several departments including state and was mentioned today at a press conference with the secretary of state, Hillary Clinton.

Judging from previous investigations this is what we're going to get...
As Libyan attack probe opens, past practice shows wide blame assessed when US missions hit

Previous inquiries into attacks on diplomatic missions have taken months to complete, and two of them found fault with both the executive and legislative branches going back years and spanning both political parties.
...
The previous boards dealt with similar complaints and allegations of mismanagement and dereliction of duty that now surround the Benghazi attack.

In addition, like the board created for Benghazi at the height of a hotly contested presidential election campaign, the Nairobi and Dar es Salaam panels were convened at a moment of bitter partisan divide in Washington. In the fall of 1998, then-President Bill Clinton was dealing with the threat of impeachment over the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

While drawing direct comparisons between the investigations is difficult due to the clearly different circumstances and times, several broad themes are consistent, namely questions over unanswered or rejected requests for enhanced security and concerns about whether threat information was ignored or dismissed inappropriately.

The East Africa boards sifted through but ultimately rejected allegations that any specific government employee _ civilian or military _ had been negligent in addressing the threats or security of the embassies.

Instead, they were blistering in their criticism of government in general for failing to prioritize and invest money in improving security at U.S. diplomatic missions despite a clear rise in threats to American interests abroad and the widely publicized 1985 recommendations of the Inman Report on securing such facilities published two years after the bombings of the U.S. Embassy and Marine barracks in Beirut.

150 blueraven  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:25:12pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

Yes, and no. Just like the "al qaeda learns to fly" and other memos were real and did exist the context of security warnings and actionable intel is a matter of perspective. Ironically the winguts are playing the same "what did they know and when did they know it" games that the moonbats played with 9-11. I'm not a fan of playing partisan gotcha games with stuff like this but it's important to keep the facts straight. The area was a known al qaeda hot bed, the consulate was concerned about security and the possibility of attacks. In hindsight things could have been handled better but I don;t think the outcome would have been any different regardless of the party occupying the White House.

OK I am probably going to down ding hell for this, and I will deserve it... but I can't take it anymore. I have to ask; is your apostrophe key broken?
A semicolon is not the proper punctuation mark here. I have noticed you use this all the time for contractions.

As to the content of your post. You speak with forked tongue.

151 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:25:12pm

Normally, while sleeping at his beach-front chalet or his lake-front secluded estate, there are none of these "freight trains." Do the little people actually LIVE this way?

152 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:25:12pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Restless Romney.

Call me cynical, but I'm going to guess at a possible last-minute attempt by the Romney folks to cancel/postpone tonight's debate, all because His Mittness didn't get his beauty sleep.

153 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:25:12pm

Capitalism!

154 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:25:37pm

Huzzah! A debate drinking game that won't result in alcohol poisoning:

Image: drinkinggame.jpg

155 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:26:23pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

Judging from previous investigations this is what we're going to get...
As Libyan attack probe opens, past practice shows wide blame assessed when US missions hit

More....

In 1998, there were widespread reports that Prudence Bushnell, the U.S. ambassador to Kenya, had sought security upgrades, including possibly moving the embassy away from downtown Nairobi, that were denied or delayed.

The boards found those claims to be factually correct, but stressed that resource constraints made many improvements low priorities given more serious security deficiencies at other embassies.

Republican lawmakers also have claimed that Washington disregarded, played down or shrugged off an increasingly serious stream of threats to U.S. and Western interests in Benghazi.

The same complaints were made in relation to the Nairobi and Dar es Salaam bombings.

Crowe and his fellow board members found in their reports that the threats that U.S. officials had been aware of in the months and weeks before the bombings had not been specific or credible enough to warrant significant changes to the embassies' security postures.

In presenting his reports 13 years ago, Crowe offered what may well end up being the general conclusion of the Benghazi inquiry.

156 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:27:00pm

re: #141 erik_t

Get some fucking earplugs like the rest of us poors.

Or an iPod and a decent set of earbuds that you can wear while sleeping.

157 TooManyJens  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:27:50pm

re: #67 calochortus

I doubt it was common practice even in 1978.

I agree. I'm just saying, it's even more nuts to claim that article as proof that it's common today.

158 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:28:24pm

re: #155 Killgore Trout

So kind of the opposite of what NJD said about a direct warning.
Huh.

The same complaints were made in relation to the Nairobi and Dar es Salaam bombings.

Crowe and his fellow board members found in their reports that the threats that U.S. officials had been aware of in the months and weeks before the bombings had not been specific or credible enough to warrant significant changes to the embassies' security postures.

In presenting his reports 13 years ago, Crowe offered what may well end up being the general conclusion of the Benghazi inquiry.

159 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:30:23pm

Apparently, Romney HQ didn't do their homework:

Great idea. Book a presidential candidate into a noisy hotel right before his first debate.

160 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:30:28pm
161 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:33:10pm

Getting 4 guys killed in Benghazi was a fuckup. It was 1/62 as much fuckup as the Marine barracks in Lebanon. The State Department personnel and the Marines go in, knowing fuckups happen.

162 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:33:23pm
163 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:34:21pm

re: #155 Killgore Trout

More....

And ends with...

He rejected criticism by media commentators and lawmakers who were "quick to lay the blame totally on the State Department, and to have found a villain, and go after it pretty heavy."

"That is certainly not the view of the commission," he told reporters on Jan. 8, 1999. "We have come to the opinion that (it was) a collective fault for the U.S. government, including the people that appropriate funds in this country, and that terrorism is now threatening to grow to the point where it's everybody's business."

"And everybody's got to accept a role and responsibility," Crowe said. "We would never say that it was totally the State Department's fault."

164 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:34:28pm

Hahaha:

165 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:34:32pm

re: #159 Lidane

Apparently, Romney HQ didn't do their homework:

[Embedded content]

Great idea. Book a presidential candidate into a noisy hotel right before his first debate.

This is clearly Obama's fault. He's been promoting more light rail. If he hadn't done that. Mitt would have slept better.

166 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:34:43pm

re: #159 Lidane

Apparently, Romney HQ didn't do their homework:

Great idea. Book a presidential candidate into a noisy hotel right before his first debate.

Or, y'know, look at a freaking map.

167 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:35:20pm

re: #161 Decatur Deb

Getting 4 guys killed in Benghazi was a fuckup. It was 1/62 as much fuckup as the Marine barracks in Lebanon. The State Department personnel and the Marines go in, knowing fuckups happen.

Agreed. It's important to keep this stuff in perspective.

168 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:35:24pm

re: #166 erik_t

Or, y'know, look at a freaking map.

Map? Is that what you people use? :)

169 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:35:54pm

re: #166 erik_t

Or, y'know, look at a freaking map.

Maybe they used Apple Maps when booking the hotel. Heh.

170 funky chicken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:36:47pm

re: #108 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Crap.
My brother-in-law is not long back from Afghanistan.
PTSD
Sister-in-law is scared to death and is trying to get him to get counseling, but he refuses.

is she afraid of him or for him? my husband is currently a commander, and that is a very important question

171 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:36:53pm

re: #163 Gus

And ends with...

It's a good article from AP. I'll give them kudos for doing a little bit of homework.

172 Digital Display  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:36:55pm

re: #159 Lidane

Apparently, Romney HQ didn't do their homework:

[Embedded content]

Great idea. Book a presidential candidate into a noisy hotel right before his first debate.

This reminds me of the movie, ' My cousin Vinny '
He kept waking up all night with the local train going through town.

173 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:38:42pm

re: #164 Lidane

Hahaha:

[Embedded content]

174 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:40:37pm

RCP does it again, this time dropping the Washington Times/JZ Analytics likely voter poll from 9/27 - 9/29 that had Obama +9. This one is pretty egregious, sure the poll is an outlier but it's well within their current stated range of 9/25 - 10/2.

Gotta keep that spread narrow by any means possible.

175 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:41:41pm

Romney complaining that trains kept him up Monday night and he didn't get much sleep.

176 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:41:48pm

This could be good for a whole other drinking game:

177 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:44:16pm

re: #170 funky chicken

is she afraid of him or for him? my husband is currently a commander, and that is a very important question

For him.
But honestly, with his family history, I'm afraid for her too.

178 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:44:40pm

re: #174 goddamnedfrank

RCP does it again, this time dropping the Washington Times/JZ Analytics likely voter poll from 9/27 - 9/29 that had Obama +9. This one is pretty egregious, sure the poll is an outlier but it's well within their current stated range of 9/25 - 10/2.

Gotta keep that spread narrow by any means possible.

What they're doing is, how do you say, really freaking clear.

179 blueraven  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:47:46pm

re: #174 goddamnedfrank

RCP does it again, this time dropping the Washington Times/JZ Analytics likely voter poll from 9/27 - 9/29 that had Obama +9. This one is pretty egregious, sure the poll is an outlier but it's well within their current stated range of 9/25 - 10/2.

Gotta keep that spread narrow by any means possible.

I noticed that this morning and thought about you. I have been watching the same thing for months.
Did you notice they moved Ohio to Obama on the electoral map and he is now at 269? All he needs is Nevada where is up by 5 points.

[Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]

180 dragonfire1981  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:48:30pm

I will be really curious to see how far Romney is willing to push it tonight.

- Will he hit "you didn't build that" ?
- Will he make birther related comments?
- Will he say anything about Obama's religious or that he's "different from other Americans"?
- Will he use the term "Obamacare"?
- Will he mention Michelle at all?

181 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:49:38pm

re: #180 dragonfire1981

I will be really curious to see how far Romney is willing to push it tonight.

- Will he hit "you didn't build that" ?
- Will he make birther related comments?
- Will he say anything about Obama's religious or that he's "different from other Americans"?
- Will he use the term "Obamacare"?
- Will he mention Michelle at all?

Yes, no, no, yes, no.

182 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:49:44pm

re: #175 darthstar

Romney complaining that trains kept him up Monday night and he didn't get much sleep.

[Embedded content]

Image: tiny-violin.jpg

183 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:50:39pm

re: #182 Gus

Image: tiny-violin.jpg

Yeah, really it almost seems as if Mitt wants us to feel sorry for him.

184 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:50:44pm

In my imaginary perfect world, Romney walks across the stage and puts one of these on Obama's podium:

[Link: freshchocodiles.com...]

Because I'm like that.

185 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:51:37pm

re: #180 dragonfire1981

I will be really curious to see how far Romney is willing to push it tonight.

- Will he hit "you didn't build that" ?
- Will he make birther related comments?
- Will he say anything about Obama's religious or that he's "different from other Americans"?
- Will he use the term "Obamacare"?
- Will he mention Michelle at all?

I say yes on the last one, just because I think his advisers probably have told him to wish them a happy anniversary, in order to appear somewhat human and likeable.

Well, that is what they would do if they were competent.

186 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:51:40pm

re: #184 Mostly sane, most of the time.

In my imaginary perfect world, Romney walks across the stage and puts one of these on Obama's podium:

[Link: freshchocodiles.com...]

Because I'm like that.

Will he get them from the 7-11?

187 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:52:52pm

re: #175 darthstar

Romney complaining that trains kept him up Monday night and he didn't get much sleep.

[Embedded content]

When Romney is president the trains will all run at the right time.

188 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:54:07pm

re: #187 goddamnedfrank

When Romney is president the trains will all run at the right time.

Therefore, Obama is a fascist. QED.

189 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:54:25pm

re: #184 Mostly sane, most of the time.

In my imaginary perfect world, Romney walks across the stage and puts one of these on Obama's podium:

[Link: freshchocodiles.com...]

Because I'm like that.

Would you like to spend the next month in the comfortable Lizard Faraday Cage/Dewar Flask/Acoustic Foam Isolation Suite under the Denver Apt? This might get distressing.

190 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:55:47pm

re: #185 JamesWI

I say yes on the last one, just because I think his advisers probably have told him to wish them a happy anniversary, in order to appear somewhat human and likeable.

Well, that is what they would do if they were competent.

Romney should use this event to announce his stand-up comedy tour.

It'll just be a rehash of his campaign, basically.

191 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:57:50pm

re: #190 The Toast Of God Fload Jeas

Romney should use this event to announce his stand-up comedy tour.

It'll just be a rehash of his campaign, basically.

Hey all you victims out there, it's your favorite insult comic, Mitt. Actually, he should come out dressed like a clown. He already acts like one anyhow.

192 Achilles Tang  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:59:31pm

re: #2 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

So let me get this straight. There are "abortion doctors" who just randomly pick women and convince them they are pregnant in order to get them to have fake abortions so the dr. can make money? Uh....yeah....right.

Not strange. All educated elites, like scientists, are in on many conspiracies, like AGW and Evolution to name but a few.

193 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 2:59:54pm

re: #170 funky chicken

is she afraid of him or for him? my husband is currently a commander, and that is a very important question

Or worse - both?

194 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:04:18pm

Haha, this is just awesome:

195 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:06:22pm

re: #193 William Barnett-Lewis

Or worse - both?

She's more worried about him.
She should be worried about both.
Too close for her to see/admit it.

196 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:06:34pm

Even in Portland you can't get away with this.
Massive marijuana field discovered in Chicago

The field, containing more than 1,500 cannabis plants, some as tall as Christmas trees, was set back about 100 yards from the street and was hidden by wild flowers.

Police also found evidence of a camp, and officials said the tarp, sleeping bag, soda bottles and Cheetos wrappers at the site indicated someone may have been guarding the field.

197 nines09  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:08:00pm

re: #151 Charles Johnson

Normally, while sleeping at his beach-front chalet or his lake-front secluded estate, there are none of these "freight trains." Do the little people actually LIVE this way?

Ask him where's the "L" in Chicago and watch the wheels spin.

198 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:08:28pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

was set back about 100 yards from the street and was hidden by wild flowers

Where did they get the flowers tall enough to hide Christmas Tree Sized pot plants,, the Amazon !?!?

199 allegro  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:09:29pm

re: #198 sattv4u2

was set back about 100 yards from the street and was hidden by wild flowers

Where did they get the flowers tall enough to hide Christmas Tree Sized pot plants,, the Amazon !?!?

Maybe the trees are just the right height.

200 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:10:01pm

re: #194 JamesWI

Haha, this is just awesome:

[Embedded content]

Haha love the ending.

201 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:10:32pm

re: #199 allegro

Maybe the trees are just the right height.

Police also found evidence of a camp, and officials said the tarp, sleeping bag, soda bottles and Cheetos wrappers at the site indicated someone may have been guarding the field. had the munchies

202 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:11:03pm

To mow or not to mow? Tis the question.

203 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:11:13pm

Space ark!

204 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:11:42pm

re: #202 Bubblehead II

To mow or not to mow? Tis the question.

buy a goat

tis the answer

205 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:13:02pm

2:45 till game time.

206 blueraven  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:13:51pm

re: #198 sattv4u2

was set back about 100 yards from the street and was hidden by wild flowers

Where did they get the flowers tall enough to hide Christmas Tree Sized pot plants,, the Amazon !?!?

Giant sunflowers!

Image: 6523.jpg

207 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:13:56pm

re: #205 Gus

I'm skipping the gym for this one, just wouldn't be the same listening to a live feed while working out.

208 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:14:13pm

re: #206 blueraven

Giant sunflowers!

Image: 6523.jpg

Those must be hard to roll!

209 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:15:04pm

re: #205 Gus

2:45 till game time.

Time to drop off and get oiled prepare spiritually for the conflict. BBL

210 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:16:44pm
211 blueraven  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:17:28pm

re: #208 sattv4u2

Those must be hard to roll!

Speaking of rolling. Went to a wedding last weekend and they had a guy at a table out in the courtyard rolling cigars with fresh tobacco leaves.
He was a huge hit.

212 sattv4u2  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:19:03pm

re: #211 blueraven

Speaking of rolling. Went to a wedding last weekend and they had a guy at a table out in the courtyard rolling cigars with fresh tobacco leaves.
He was a huge hit.

Very cool!

213 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:07:22pm

re: #204 sattv4u2

buy a goat

tis the answer

You going to come over and pick up all the shit said animal is also going to deposit after "mowing" the yard?

My problem is I have developed a 1%ers attitude toward yard work. Had a Gal that would do basic lawn care (mowing, some trimming and light weeding and sweeping down the patio) for $20.00 cash a week (total time, 30-45 min). I provided the equipment, fuel, etc.she did the work. According to her, she had 4 others (per day) that had the same arrangement but price varied upon yard size/time. She claimed that she was making around $700.00 a week or about $2800.00 a month (tax free).

Insurance? Hubby has a good job and carried her on his.

Why was She doing it? First and foremost, it gave her Family a bit of wiggle room when it came to finances.

Second, if she wanted to buy something for herself, she didn't have a problem with doing so because it was HER'S.

Third, exercise. she got to work out while doing something she liked doing (people are weird) as well getting paid for it.

The only thing that sucks about this? Hubby got transfered last month. Now I have to take care of it (yard work). I hate yard work. Probably because I did the same thing as a kid. But just didn't get paid as well

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:06:48pm

re: #55 TooManyJens

Yes, it's certainly possible to perform a D&C on a woman who's not pregnant, so the "how is that possible" reactions are a little uninformed. (It is also possible for symptoms to be ambiguous enough that a woman doesn't know if she's pregnant or not. Totally possible.) But to take one newspaper article from 34 years ago and extrapolate that this is a common practice today is just nuts. I'm sure Akin himself never looked into the subject -- as with the "no pregnancy from rape" thing, he believed what he was told without question because it supported what he already thought.

You can do a D&C on a non-pregnant woman, sure. It's used for things beside abortion, and actually, because of that, was sometimes used as a cover for abortion when abortion was illegal.

It's also possible for a woman not to know she's pregnant, although I doubt many women go into Planned Parenthood without having done a drugstore test at home. (Don't think those were available in 1978, which would have made women much more vulnerable to a crooked doc.)

That said, this is the weirdest thing I have ever heard of abortion providers being accused of. I mean THE weirdest.

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:15:03pm

re: #97 reflections of a raging redneck

Hitchens didn't believe water boarding was torture until he went through it.

No one who's stepped up to experience it seems to be left with doubt. Even Mancow, who didn't get properly waterboarded at all.

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:15:31pm

re: #99 Reverend Mother Ramallo

There's a show on TLC called, "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant".
For some of those women, it wasn't even their first child.
However, after carrying two back to back, I have a hard time believing them.
It was probably more like "I didn't want to Know I was Pregnant".

One of my students tells me her mom didn't know. And she was the second child.

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:16:04pm

re: #108 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Crap.
My brother-in-law is not long back from Afghanistan.
PTSD
Sister-in-law is scared to death and is trying to get him to get counseling, but he refuses.

I am sorry. My SIL went through a recent divorce for the same reason.

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 9:34:30pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

(Don't think those were available in 1978, which would have made women much more vulnerable to a crooked doc.)

Actually, they hit the market in 1977.

My bad.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 68 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 168 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1