Pre-Debate, Restless Romney

The vulture capitalist and the pea
Politics • Views: 25,229

In the lowering expectations category, a Romney aide told Buzzfeed that Mitt spent a miserable sleepless night on Monday.

Romney got virtually no sleep Monday night, an aide said, blaming a freight train that passed through a grade crossing near the hotel and blew its horn roughly every hour all through the night. The candidate’s sleep deprivation so worried his staff that the campaign looked into switching hotels. The logistics were ultimately too tough, the aide said, and there was concern about how it would look.

Romney’s not used to this. Normally, while sleeping at his beach-front chalet or his lake-front secluded estate, there are none of these “freight trains” that seem to plague the lives of the little people.

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405 comments
1 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:18:21pm

Poor little guy. He'll be all tuckered out.

2 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:18:40pm

I love this song.

Youtube Video
3 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:18:43pm

Wimp.
There's a train station half a mile from me and I live under a flight path to Dulles.
:P

4 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:20:22pm

Tsk tsk. No more subsidies for Amtrak.
/

5 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:21:28pm
The vulture capitalist and the pea

Ha!

6 ElCapitanAmerica  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:21:31pm

Doesn't he have enough money to buy noise cancellon headphones or war plugs ???

7 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:21:52pm

*Drives by Romney's hotel in this*

Youtube Video
8 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:22:28pm

re: #6 ElCapitanAmerica

Doesn't he have enough money to buy noise cancellon headphones or war plugs ???

Freudian slip?

/

9 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:22:32pm

Drinking game: jobs

10 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:22:37pm

Taxes

11 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:22:57pm

Apology!

12 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:22:59pm
13 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:23:07pm

re: #10 Gus

"American peeple"

14 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:23:12pm

Spastic tube.

15 garhighway  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:23:23pm

re: #6 ElCapitanAmerica

Doesn't he have enough money to buy noise cancellon headphones or war plugs ???

I just used noise canceling headphones for the first time yesterday on a long flight. They are AWESOME.

16 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:23:31pm

Job Creators!

17 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:23:56pm

I wouldn't be able to sleep if I couldn't hear the train rumbling through the valley.
Anyway, how much more do they want us to lower our expectations?

18 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:24:12pm

China

19 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:24:40pm

Class warfare

20 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:24:55pm

re: #15 garhighway

I just used noise canceling headphones for the first time yesterday on a long flight. They are AWESOME.

I invested in a pair too. I love them. I put them on as soon as I get in the boarding area. I hate listening to everyone's obnoxious cell phone conversations.

21 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:24:59pm

Boobs

22 nines09  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:25:34pm

Someone should ask him where the "El" is in Chicago. Have a fire extinguisher ready.

23 blueraven  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:26:54pm

Vinny Gambini: Does that freight train come through here at 5:00 A.M. every morning?
Hotel Clerk: No, sir, it's very unusual.
Vinny Gambini: [the next day, after Vinny was awakened by the train] Yesterday you told me that freight train hardly ever comes through here at 5:00 A.M. in the morning.
Hotel Clerk: I know. She's supposed to come through at ten after 4:00.

24 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:27:31pm

"Deficit"
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

25 Digital Display  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:27:47pm

I wish Frank Zappa was still with us..
i'd love him to redo some of his classic songs for tonight's debate.
Think I'll move to Montana..And buy the State..
Mormon Girls
Mitt's garage
Space Junk
etc.

26 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:28:47pm

I'm sick! I can't be Pwesident today!

27 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:29:49pm

Ten Fake Stories "Bannered" by Drudge This Year

Including such lovelies like "Obama is going to give a bailout to every industry in America," "Romney wants Gen. Petraeus as his VP," and everyone's favorite "Condi Rice is the front-runner for Republican VP spot."

28 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:30:04pm

re: #21 Gus

Boobs

If I hear boobs, I'm firing up the volcano.

29 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:31:21pm
30 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:31:34pm

Posting from my new Samsung Galaxy S3
Much better than from my HTC

31 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:31:40pm

Image: diplomatic-attacks3.png

32 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:32:13pm

So are we supposed to feel bad for Mitt?

33 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:32:37pm

New feature - if you post a link to an image file, you no longer need to add that 'rel="shadowbox"' code to make it pop open in a lightbox-style dialog. It's all automatic.

You can either type in the "<a>" tags yourself or use the link button at upper right of the comment form.

For example...

If it works, that should pop open with the shadowbox effect instead of opening in a new window...

34 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:32:41pm

re: #29 Gus

"...the references to "peace through strength" is a dubious policy critique: not just that Obama is Carter and Romney is Reagan, but that somehow sufficient man-musk from an American president can dissuade any potential terrorist from laying his finger on an American diplomat."

Heh.

35 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:33:33pm

re: #34 jaunte

"...the references to "peace through strength" is a dubious policy critique: not just that Obama is Carter and Romney is Reagan, but that somehow sufficient man-musk from an American president can dissuade any potential terrorist from laying his finger on an American diplomat."

Heh.

Man musk! Drink!

36 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:34:28pm

re: #34 jaunte

"...the references to "peace through strength" is a dubious policy critique: not just that Obama is Carter and Romney is Reagan, but that somehow sufficient man-musk from an American president can dissuade any potential terrorist from laying his finger on an American diplomat."

Heh.

They really want to live in that delusion: Obama being Carter and Romney being Reagan.

37 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:34:31pm

Testing

38 elisabeth  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:34:50pm

re: #17 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Anyway, how much more do they want us to lower our expectations?

Romney's at Palin levels now.

39 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:35:04pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

New feature - if you post a link to an image file, you no longer need to add that 'rel="shadowbox"' code to make it pop open in a lightbox-style dialog. It's all automatic.

You can either type in the "<a>" tags yourself or use the link button at upper right of the comment form.

For example...

If it works, that should pop open with the shadowbox effect instead of opening in a new window...

Nice. Thanks.

40 HAL2010  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:35:53pm
Hey, it turns out that the sanctions against Iran really are crippling -- so much so that even Mahmoud Admadinejad is admitting it and Benjamin Netanyahu now has sanctions fever. Based on my own sanctions model, I'd predict that the sanctions are now becoming so costly that Iran will in fact be willing to compromise on its nuclear program -- but any concessions will seem tiny compared to how devastating the sanctions have been.

Boom.

41 Mattand  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:37:12pm

I'm kind of surprised that he didn't stay in a luxury hotel downtown somewhere. That's not a slam, BTW; if I had his kind of dough, that's where I'd be. Particularly if I had to be rested for a Presidential debate.

42 elisabeth  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:38:03pm

re: #41 Mattand

He could have rented a small private home as well.

43 RadicalModerate  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:38:08pm

I see that Eric son of Erick has weighed in on the years-old Obama "bombshell" video.
And, as one would expect from a Pavlovian response, he's gleefully tooting that dog whistle.

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

"I think that there is no material significance here, but the Republicans are very good at taking nothing and turning it into what appears to be something," Boyce Watkins, founder of yourblackworld.com, said on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360."

He added: "We have to remember that we live in a country that has for 400 years been poisoned by the psychological disease of racism and it doesn't take much to spark that back up."

Countering, conservative blogger and CNN contributor Erick Erickson said Obama's comments were telling of the president's personal views on race in the United States.

"He's addressing a largely black crowd and making the point that very clearly, that they in New Orleans got treated differently from people in New York and people in Florida because they somehow weren't part of the American community," Erickson said. "That's fanning the flames."

44 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:38:51pm

re: #41 Mattand

I'm kind of surprised that he didn't stay in a luxury hotel downtown somewhere. That's not a slam, BTW; if I had his kind of dough, that's where I'd be. Particularly if I had to be rested for a Presidential debate.

I would have arranged to have a private house, in a secluded area rented for the week leading up to the debates.

45 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:39:30pm

re: #43 RadicalModerate

I see that Eric son of Erick has weighed in on the years-old Obama "bombshell" video.
And, as one would expect from a Pavlovian response, he's gleefully tooting that dog whistle.

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

Erickson after the stupid comments he made during the DNC and about Elizabeth Warren really shouldn't be able to talk about "fanning the flames." Besides, Obama wasn't talking about race in the response. He was talking about incompetence that transcended racial barriers but when you're like Eric ERickson and need to feel victimized I can see why one would ignore what he actually said.

46 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:40:33pm

Anyone know where Obama crashed? Could be that Mitt's nervous as hell? This is probably going to be the toughest debate of his life and he has to know that deep down past his cocky demeanor.

47 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:41:01pm

re: #46 HappyWarrior

Anyone know where Obama crashed? Could be that Mitt's nervous as hell? This is probably going to be the toughest debate of his life and he has to know that deep down past his cocky demeanor.

a nearby resort

48 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:41:56pm

Texas, Plaintiffs Reach Deal in "Dead Voter" Lawsuit

A lawsuit by four registered voters alleging that the state of Texas was violating their civil rights by purging them from voter rolls has been dropped after the plaintiffs and the state reached an agreement.

The Texas residents brought the suit after receiving letters from their county registrar indicating that the office had reason to believe the voters were dead. Elections officials stated the voters would be dropped from the voter rolls if they did not respond to a letter asking them to prove they were alive within 30 days.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs won an injunction last month to stop the process after tens of thousands of letters were sent out, including many to voters who were still alive.

"A'hm not dead yet!"

50 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:43:25pm

re: #36 HappyWarrior

They really want to live in that delusion: Obama being Carter and Romney being Reagan.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Obama's sanctions policy is crippling Ahmadinejad and the Iranian economy.

51 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:43:29pm

re: #47 Reverend Mother Ramallo

a nearby resort

Ah smart move then. Outside the hustle and bustle of the city.

52 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:45:30pm

re: #50 AntonSirius

Meanwhile, in the real world, Obama's sanctions policy is crippling Ahmadinejad and the Iranian economy.

But that can't be, Mitt told me all he does is apologize and appease. Mitt would never lie to me, right? But good, I feel for the Iranian people but if it puts up some pressure on Ahmadinejad and the Iranian government not to develop nukes, it's good especially if we avoid war.

53 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:45:31pm

Photos: Prepping For The Debate
Posted Oct 03, 2012

54 HAL2010  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:45:35pm

I am seriously considering the debate. It starts three in the morning here (2 hours, fifteen minutes from now). And I need to catch the 08.20 bus.

Oh well, things could be worse. At least I wont be playing the drinking game.

55 garhighway  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:47:35pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

I invested in a pair too. I love them. I put them on as soon as I get in the boarding area. I hate listening to everyone's obnoxious cell phone conversations.

The noise reduction once I hit the switch was just amazing.

56 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:48:23pm

Heh.
I wonder how many wingers think this is gonna be like Rocky vs. Apollo Creed?

57 kirkspencer  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:49:08pm

re: #56 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Heh.
I wonder how many wingers think this is gonna be like Rocky vs. Apollo Creed?

Which fight?

58 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:49:13pm

Here's the jQuery code to automatically open any linked image files with the "fancybox" effect. I install a click handler on the document object, to catch all clicks on 'a' tags and check the extension of the file in the 'href' attribute. If it's not an image it returns true so the click is processed normally.

$(document).on('click', 'a', function() {
	var ext = $(this).attr('href').split('.').pop().toLowerCase();
	if (ext == 'jpg' || ext == 'jpeg' || ext == 'gif' || ext == 'png') {
		$.fancybox.open($(this), LGF.fancyBoxSettings);
		return false;
	}
	return true;
});
59 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:49:51pm

"blaming a freight train that passed through a grade crossing near the hotel and blew its horn roughly every hour all through the night."

///Clearly Joe Biden's has used his ties with Amtrack to launch an underhanded attack on Romney's sanity.

60 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:52:20pm

re: #57 kirkspencer

Which fight?

For them, II.

61 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:54:04pm
The candidate’s sleep deprivation so worried his staff that the campaign looked into switching hotels. The logistics were ultimately too tough, the aide said, and there was concern about how it would look.

Management expertise.

62 SidewaysQuark  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:54:06pm

My freshman year in college, diesel trains used to fly by my dorm room every night. Cry me a river, Mitt.

63 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:54:11pm

Let's get ready to rumble!

64 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:55:01pm

re: #62 SidewaysQuark

My freshman year in college, diesel trains used to fly by my dorm room every night. Cry me a river, Mitt.

Why didn't you just borrow some money from your parents and get a better place?

65 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:55:48pm

In baseball news. The A's just won the AL West. Wow what a choke job by Texas.

66 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:56:19pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

But that can't be, Mitt told me all he does is apologize and appease. Mitt would never lie to me, right? But good, I feel for the Iranian people but if it puts up some pressure on Ahmadinejad and the Iranian government not to develop nukes, it's good especially if we avoid war.

See the link to Sully that HAL posted above. I'm hoping the Arab Spring might finally be returning home.

67 William of Orange  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:57:35pm

I bet his first Pavlov reaction was to take a memo; offshoring freight trains.

68 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:57:46pm

re: #56 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Heh.
I wonder how many wingers think this is gonna be like Rocky vs. Apollo Creed?

I wonder how many are derping themselves into thinking it'll be Apollo vs Drago?

69 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:58:35pm

PHOTOS: Obama arrives in Denver

70 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 3:58:57pm

re: #64 JamesWI

I'm sure he knows someone who has a cozy little 15,000 sq.ft chalet in the mountains...
You know, a fixer upper!

71 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:00:26pm

Chick-fil-A chief: 'We support Biblical families'

Douche. Families, families, families, families, families, families.

72 God of Binders with Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:00:29pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

In baseball news. The A's just won the AL West. Wow what a choke job by Texas.

Good. As a native Houstonian, I hate anything and everything Dallas/Metro. The further those snobby fucks are away from me, the better.

73 God of Binders with Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:02:20pm

re: #71 Gus

Chick-fil-A chief: 'We support Biblical families'

I support families. Period. No religious, throwback exclusions necessary.

74 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:03:42pm
75 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:03:54pm
The candidate’s sleep deprivation so worried his staff that the campaign looked into switching hotels. The logistics were ultimately too tough, the aide said, and there was concern about how it would look.

It looks like this, you dumbasses.

76 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:04:16pm

re: #71 Gus

Chick-fil-A chief: 'We support Biblical families'

Douche. Families, families, families, families, families, families.

Ah yes, the ever popular "a man and his wife, and his wife, and his concubines..."

77 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:05:17pm

re: #76 calochortus

Ah yes, the ever popular "a man and his wife, and his wife, and his concubines..."

Biblical families! Damn, I don't want to bring up all of the incest in the bible. I'll just focus on all of those divorced Republicans.

78 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:06:25pm

re: #77 Gus

Biblical families! Damn, I don't want to bring up all of the incest in the bible. I'll just focus on all of those divorced Republicans.

That's different!

79 HAL2010  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:06:50pm

re: #77 Gus

Biblical families! Damn, I don't want to bring up all of the incest in the bible. I'll just focus on all of those divorced Republicans.

Do as we say, not as we do!

80 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:07:58pm

re: #79 HAL2010

Do as we say, not as we do!

The basis of all sound policy.

81 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:08:20pm

miserable sleepless night on Monday

pursuing this whole charade to the bitter end will probably be one of the worst things that ever happened to mitt

82 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:09:42pm

word of the day

I'M NOT NERVOUS!!!!!

83 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:09:44pm

Wasn't it Lot who offered up his daughters to the rapists as stand ins for the angels?
Oh, wait, it wouldn't have been considered legitimate rape...
or something.

84 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:09:56pm

re: #71 Gus

Chick-fil-A chief: 'We support Biblical families'

What he supports isn't the problem. His inability to mind his own business is the problem.

85 HAL2010  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:11:18pm

re: #80 calochortus

The basis of all sound policy.

I for one welcome our theocratic overlords...

No wait, that's not right.

87 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:12:57pm

THE TOP 14 BIBLICAL WAYS TO ACQUIRE A WIFE (author unknown)

• Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head, trim her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she's yours. (Deuteronomy 21:11-13)
• Find a prostitute and marry her. (Hosea 1:1-3)
• Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock. (Moses -- Exodus 2:16-21)
• Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal. (Boaz -- Ruth 4:5-10)
• Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one and carry her off to be your wife. (Benjaminites -- Judges 21:19-25)
• Have God create a wife for you while you sleep. Note: this will cost you. (Adam -- Genesis 2:19-24)
• Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman's hand in marriage. Get tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven years for the woman you wanted to marry in the first place. That's right. Fourteen years of toil for a wife. (Jacob -- Genesis 29:15-30)
• Cut 200 foreskins off of your future father-in-law's enemies and get his daughter for a wife. (David -- 1 Samuel 18:27)
• Even if no one is out there, just wander around a bit and you'll definitely find someone. (It's all relative, of course.) (Cain -- Genesis 4:16-17)
• Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest. (Xerxes or Ahasuerus -- Esther 2:3-4)
• When you see someone you like, go home and tell your parents, "I have seen a ... woman; now get her for me." If your parents question your decision, simply say, "Get her for me. She's the one for me." (Samson -- Judges 14:1-3)
• Kill any husband and take HIS wife (Prepare to lose four sons, though). (David -- 2 Samuel 11)
• Wait for your brother to die. Take his widow. (It's not just a good idea; it's the law.) (Onana and Boaz -- Deuteronomy or Leviticus, example in Ruth)
• Don't be so picky. Make up for quality with quantity. (Solomon -- 1 Kings 11:1-3)

88 diamonda2u  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:13:31pm

The crazy reality tv show vibe that has taken over this entire election season has made up my mind, the debate is useless, I'll read thru it on your open thread and get some real work done.

89 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:14:39pm

(Epic face-palm)

Yeahhhhhhhh....except for that one thing.....and the other.....and the other.....

91 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:16:30pm

re: #86 Charles Johnson

Things Not to Talk About in Denver When You're Broken: Your Debate Preview, or What They Should Talk About - Charles P. Pierce

Forgotten Issue No. 1: The Republican Party has gone insane.

All the rest is commentary

93 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:19:06pm

re: #90 Gus

Reminds me of Pleasantville

94 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:19:46pm

re: #92 Charles Johnson

Finally, a captive audience.
/

95 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:23:05pm

re: #92 Charles Johnson

An image that somehow captures the essence of Michele Bachmann.

Bachmann: Full of bull...

96 AntonSirius  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:24:14pm

re: #71 Gus

Chick-fil-A chief: 'We support Biblical families'

Oh, right. Biblical families. You mean like Abraham and Sarah and Hagar?

97 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:24:28pm

Speaking of corporations and gay marriage...

98 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:27:29pm

Did these guys watch "My Cousin Vinny" over the weekend and decide this was a good excuse to use for him getting run over during the debate?

99 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:28:18pm

re: #23 blueraven

God-damnit, beaten to it. With quotes! /hangs head in shame.

Good work.

100 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:28:35pm

Boom!

101 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:31:55pm

re: #97 Gus

Human- not political or religious.

That is what it is really all about.

That tends to get lost.

102 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:32:12pm

re: #97 Gus

Good for them.

Gay marriage means more happiness in the world.

103 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:32:21pm

re: #87 Gus

THE TOP 14 BIBLICAL WAYS TO ACQUIRE A WIFE (author unknown)

Seriously, though, the love stories of Ruth and Boaz (the land was a technicality) and of Rachel and Joseph were very touching. Rebecca (not mentioned in that piece) and Isaac definitely loved one another, and frankly, if a guy showed up and was a good man and a hard worker (Moses), back in that day he was definitely marriage material.

104 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:32:32pm

Angry lady on MSNBC.
Looked like she was ready to tear Mitt a new one over 47% remarks.

105 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:33:12pm

re: #100 Gus

Boom!

[Embedded content]

I was waiting today for Sully's take (after you found he posted the speech transcript in its entirety)

He definitely was going to have a take.

106 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:33:43pm

re: #94 researchok

Howdy. I forgot yesterday to look for this:

3 researchok10/01/2012 11:56:42 am PDT

re: #2 wrenchwench

TY- and serendipity.

Tomorrow AM I've got a post on Rachel Carson and DDT

The source is interesting because it is more left of center. Basically, they take issue with how Carson's message was hijacked at the expense of the science.

The more I read on the subject, the more confused I become. Too many agendas, you know?

But I found it today, and posted a comment on it.

107 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:33:46pm

re: #97 Gus

How can anyone look at the eyes of same sex couples as they are married and think there is anything wrong with their love? I just don't get it.

108 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:34:48pm

re: #99 Ghost of Tom Joad

re: #102 The Toast Of God Fload Jeas

Is there some kind of display-name coordination thing going on here? :)

109 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:34:50pm

re: #107 calochortus

How can anyone look at the eyes of same sex couples as they are married and think there is anything wrong with their love? I just don't get it.

I don't know. Hate, indoctrination, etc.

110 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:35:10pm

Alex Castellanos says Mitt Romney's idiot right wing supporters just shit all over him.

"This hurts Mitt," said 2008 Romney consultant Alex Castellanos, who has at times been a harsh critic of his current campaign. "Mitt's window to turn the economic debate around is [Wednesday.] And his alleged supporters just shit on it. An abysmally selfish and stupid event."

111 HAL2010  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:35:18pm

re: #107 calochortus

How can anyone look at the eyes of same sex couples as they are married and think there is anything wrong with their love? I just don't get it.

BECAUSE THEY DENIGRATE MY PERFECT CHRISTIAN HETEROSEXUAL THIRD MARRIAGE. THAT'S WHY.

112 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:35:22pm

re: #102 The Toast Of God Fload Jeas

Good for them.

Gay marriage means more happiness in the world.

Happiness is a zero sum item, doncha know? More for you means less for me.
///

113 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:35:50pm

re: #107 calochortus

How can anyone look at the eyes of same sex couples as they are married and think there is anything wrong with their love? I just don't get it.

Two men kissing is icky.
Two women kissing is a turn-on.

0_o

114 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:37:00pm

re: #109 Gus

I don't know. Hate, indoctrination, etc.

Or they aren't actually looking closely at them to see the emotion that is (or should be) just like their own emotions when they got married and looked into the eyes of their beloved.

115 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:37:08pm

re: #97 Gus

Speaking of corporations and gay marriage...

[Embedded content]

Wiping tears. That was awesome.

116 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:37:23pm

re: #108 Interesting Times

re: #102 The Toast Of God Fload Jeas

Is there some kind of display-name coordination thing going on here? :)

Nobody here but us chickens.

117 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:37:58pm

re: #115 Blackity Black Black!

Wiping tears. That was awesome.

Let them know because they're also being trolled by idiot haters.

118 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:37:59pm

re: #116 GoddamnedInterestingHoops

Nobody here but us chickens.

I'm on to you all!

119 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:38:06pm

The Obama campaign leadership has sent a message to the troops, telling them to enjoy the debate, but maintain a bit of decorum on Twitter. Heh.

120 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:39:02pm

re: #119 Decatur Deb

The Obama campaign leadership has sent a message to the troops, telling them to enjoy the debate, but maintain a bit of decorum on Twitter. Heh.

Link?

121 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:39:45pm

re: #108 Interesting Times

Nope. Every once in a while the flea and I join our brains like they did in "The Puppet Masters" (cheap Body Snatchers knockoff) to make a post of earth-shattering brilliance before we separate back to our mediocre selves.

Well, either that or somebody is having fun at our expense :-)

122 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:39:46pm

re: #118 Varek Raith

I'm on to you all!

Just relax and enjoy the ride, Mr. Sith.

123 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:40:02pm

re: #106 wrenchwench

Thanks for that, WW- I stand corrected.

I will say they do have some excellent articles.

I wish these sites- all of them, right and left- were more clear as to their political leanings. While that in way invalidates the content (the NA is a superb resource) it would help to put their opinions in the proper context.

I need to reread the piece with a more critical eye.

Again, TY for the clarity.

124 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:40:17pm

re: #120 Gus

Link?

I'd have to kill you.

125 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:40:23pm

re: #119 Decatur Deb

The Obama campaign leadership has sent a message to the troops, telling them to enjoy the debate, but maintain a bit of decorum on Twitter. Heh.

Decorum on Twitter.....Yeah.

126 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:41:38pm

re: #119 Decatur Deb

The Obama campaign leadership has sent a message to the troops, telling them to enjoy the debate, but maintain a bit of decorum on Twitter. Heh.

Translation: Let them think they did well, because it'll be even funnier when they go down in flames.

127 Robert O.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:41:38pm

Mitt Romney, in closing statements of the debates, accidentally says: "Thank you. Good night. And may God bless half of America."

128 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:41:44pm

Meme generator. On.

129 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:41:45pm

What? He was going to honor the partial dream act, but now isn't?

He says something moderate and voila, the hounds attack and scare him & his people shitless. Enough to backtrack and keep that etch-a-sketch going.


130 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:41:56pm

Zinger generator. Check.

131 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:42:44pm

re: #121 Ghost of Tom Joad

Nope. Every once in a while the flea and I join our brains like they did in "The Puppet Masters" (cheap Body Snatchers knockoff) to make a post of earth-shattering brilliance before we separate back to our mediocre selves.

Well, either that or somebody is having fun at our expense :-)

I think the Puppet Masters was based on a Heinlein book.

132 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:42:45pm

re: #128 Gus

Meme generator. On.

Then it took an arrow in the knee.

re: #130 Gus

Zinger generator. Check.

That's what she said!

133 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:42:46pm

re: #130 Gus

Zinger generator. Check.

Is this the Rmoney reboot checklist?

134 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:42:48pm

PolitiFact [Link: twitter.com...]

135 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:42:51pm

re: #130 Gus

Zinger generator. Check.

[Link: www.pangloss.com...]

136 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:43:35pm

re: #129 Blackity Black Black!

What? He was going to honor the partial dream act, but now isn't?

He says something moderate and voila, the hounds attack and scare him & his people shitless. Enough to backtrack and keep that etch-a-sketch going.

[Embedded content]

Sea cucumbers have more backbone.

137 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:43:38pm

re: #117 Gus

Let them know because they're also being trolled by idiot haters.

You mean Expedia. Got it.

138 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:43:54pm

re: #130 Gus

Zinger generator. Check.

I hope Romney is going to hold his hand up and waggle a cigar when he delivers a zinger.

139 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:43:56pm

So apparently that "Promoted Trend" on Twitter all day today cost the Romney campaign at least $120,000.

And this is the man who is supposed to be the one who understands economics? A guy who pays $120k for a "trend" where the majority of posts are shitting all over him?

140 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:44:07pm

re: #137 Blackity Black Black!

How do you reach them? wow.

@Expedia

141 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:44:36pm

re: #138 Sheeplord

I hope Romney is going to hold his hand up and waggle a cigar when he delivers a zinger.

The secret word is "Dressage".

142 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:45:36pm

re: #141 Decatur Deb

The secret word is "Dressage".

I'm telling you officer, that's either my wife or a bad dream.

143 danarchy  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:45:55pm

re: #102 VarekVanWench

Good for them.

Gay marriage means more happiness in the world.

Or if you are very cynical, more misery and divorce . . .

144 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:46:55pm

Ann's been unleashed.

145 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:47:01pm

If something goes wrong the Romneybot 2000.12 will turn blue with lots of white lettering and stuff.

146 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:47:32pm

re: #139 JamesWI

So apparently that "Promoted Trend" on Twitter all day today cost the Romney at least $120,000.

And this is the man who is supposed to be the one who understands economics? A guy who pays $120k for a "trend" where the majority of posts are shitting all over him?

Calculated risk.
or
Gross stupidity.

147 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:47:42pm

Todays' moment of DARVO brought to you by John Hawkins -- Obama's the racist...

[Link: thegrio.com...]

148 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:47:53pm

re: #146 reflections of a raging redneck

Calculated risk.
or
Gross stupidity.

It helps him reinforce the persecution narrative.

149 mikeymom  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:48:35pm

i can sympathize a little with romney regarding the train noise- i live 45 mi no of denver-have been here 17 yrs and the trains going thru town at night are very disturbing. visitors are amazed. our town has been trying to work with the rr to no avail. some engineers really lean on the horn-15 sec,15 sec, 5 sec 20 sec
i know ive counted them. his handlers should have prepared him like i do my out of town visitors. getting drunk works best

150 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:48:50pm

re: #147 Randall Gross

Todays' moment of DARVO brought to you by John Hawkins -- Obama's the racist...

[Link: thegrio.com...]

Who the hell is this Hawkins fruit cake?

151 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:48:57pm

Dick Morris is live-tweeting the debate. Time to follow him ironically.

152 Ojoe  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:49:17pm

Miminna, miminna, miminna,
Rabbida, rabbida, rabbida.

153 JamesWI  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:50:16pm
154 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:50:31pm

re: #123 researchok

Thanks for that, WW- I stand corrected.

I will say they do have some excellent articles.

I wish these sites- all of them, right and left- were more clear as to their political leanings. While that in way invalidates the content (the NA is a superb resource) it would help to put their opinions in the proper context.

I need to reread the piece with a more critical eye.

Again, TY for the clarity.

Judging by the huge number of Pages you post, you go for quantity in your reading.

Many sites obscure their sources on purpose, to avoid damaging their credibility.

(the NA is a superb resource)

You mean the New Atlantis? I thought I just exposed them as a propaganda outlet.

155 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:51:11pm

re: #149 mikeymom

his handlers should have prepared him like i do my out of town visitors. getting drunk works best

Have you comparison-tested with other products?

156 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:52:06pm

DARVO

157 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:52:27pm

Logic!

158 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:52:37pm

Wonder if I should have held off taking a shower til after the debate, so I could scrape the bullshit we're no doubt about to be buried in off my skin.

159 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:53:07pm

Oncologists are really pro-cancer!

Derp.

//

160 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:53:14pm

Waaay, OT, but quite pertinent to me right now.

Yellow rice in fridge since Friday....yay or fucking puke?

smells fine...

161 Digital Display  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:53:16pm

Getting close to the debate.. Don't forget to place your bets on the over/under number of debate threads tonight. It's gone up to 7 today.
( This is a pre-debate thread so don't even think about it )
We have some lovely prizes for the winners tonight..
Michelle Bachmann is giving away one of her 28,000 foster kids that has been anti gay indoctrinated.
Newt has agreed to spend the night with any lucky American willing to have him.
100,000 lucky lizards will be written on the Rick Santorum prayer list.
A free subscription to Conspiracy today. A wonderful new GOP mag.

162 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:53:26pm

re: #156 Gus

DARVO

[Embedded content]

Nolte of course is the guy who suggested shooting teachers who take their kids ot political rallies.

164 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:54:16pm

I kind of like Sheeplord as a name.

Maybe Schleplord.

Sheepschleplord.

Brigadier General Sheep Schleplord, OBE, age five (Mrs.)

165 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:54:26pm

re: #154 wrenchwench

Just because they are funded by conservative money doesn't mean they are a propaganda outlet.

By that measure, anything funded by Soros ought to be equally suspect.

And the NA does have a good reputation.

Moreso, I read the piece carefully. I haven't seen anyone point out any substantive errors.

The criticism of the piece at this time is unwarranted,

166 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:55:18pm

re: #163 Gus

Good for them.

168 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:55:59pm

re: #164 Sheeplord

I kind of like Sheeplord as a name.

Maybe Schleplord.

Sheepschleplord.

Brigadier General Sheep Schleplord, OBE, age five (Mrs.)

I was shocked when I saw it was you. Feel the freedom! Then revert.

169 RadicalModerate  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:56:12pm

re: #150 reflections of a raging redneck

Who the hell is this Hawkins fruit cake?

Hawkins runs the far-right blog "Rightwingnews". And has posted more than once his violent fantasies regarding Obama, and liberals in general.

Cached link of one of his articles:
Hawkins: Yes, we are putting liberals in the crosshairs

170 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:56:25pm

re: #100 Gus

Boom!

[Embedded content]

Gotta disagree with Sully here; Carlson's always been a demagogue and a partisan hack. It's just that now he either feels free to let his freak flag fly (since the rest of the GOP has lurched towards the Birchers) or is pandering to those who are.

171 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:56:47pm

re: #161 Digital Display

Getting close to the debate.. Don't forget to place your bets on the over/under number of debate threads tonight. It's gone up to 7 today.
( This is a pre-debate thread so don't even think about it )
We have some lovely prizes for the winners tonight..
Michelle Bachmann is giving away one of her 28,000 foster kids that has been anti gay indoctrinated.
Newt has agreed to spend the night with any lucky American willing to have him.
100,000 lucky lizards will be written on the Rick Santorum prayer list.
A free subscription to Conspiracy today. A wonderful new GOP mag.

4

172 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:57:18pm

BTW, the Oakland Athletics - down 5-1 in the 4th, rallied back and ended up winning the AL West by beating the fucking Rangers 12-8. Rangers go to the wild card. Athletics get to go straight to the playoffs. If they win the ALCS (and the Giants win the NLCS) I'll get to see every World Series game live (I already have my Giants tickets through the WS, and will only have to pay the 200 bucks or so for the Oakland games).

Oh, and there's a debate tonight. Whoo-hoo!

173 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:57:23pm

re: #165 researchok

The problems are all the same as they were the last time you brought up this stuff.

A) DDT was never banned for use in vector control, which is where it's actually useful in fighting disease.

B) It was banned in agricultural use, as a general pesticide, and for mass continual sprayings, because doing so quickly breeds immune mosquitoes.

B1) This can be easily seen in areas where it was overused, and where there are now lots of DDT resistant mosquitoes

C) The effects of DDT in the ecosystem are real, and understood, and the completely speculative science of people completely outside the field, which is what you've got in the report you cite, is silly.

174 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:58:22pm

re: #173 Sheeplord

Right.

The article however goes beyond that.

175 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:59:19pm

re: #169 RadicalModerate

Hawkins runs the far-right blog "Rightwingnews". And has posted more than once his violent fantasies regarding Obama, and liberals in general.

Cached link of one of his articles:
Hawkins: Yes, we are putting liberals in the crosshairs

So, just another forgettable idiot.

176 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 4:59:30pm

re: #171 Blackity Black Black!
Might go for Conspiracy Today. My subscription to Popular Paranoia has just run out.

177 HappyWarrior  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:00:11pm

re: #172 darthstar

BTW, the Oakland Athletics - down 5-1 in the 4th, rallied back and ended up winning the AL West by beating the fucking Rangers 12-8. Rangers go to the wild card. Athletics get to go straight to the playoffs. If they win the ALCS (and the Giants win the NLCS) I'll get to see every World Series game live (I already have my Giants tickets through the WS, and will only have to pay the 200 bucks or so for the Oakland games).

Oh, and there's a debate tonight. Whoo-hoo!

I am just glad the Orioles won't have to go to Oakland for the WC game on Friday. They are hot right now.

178 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:00:33pm

T-minus 1 hour.

179 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:01:23pm

re: #164 Sheeplord

I kind of like Sheeplord as a name.

Maybe Schleplord.

Sheepschleplord.

Brigadier General Sheep Schleplord, OBE, age five (Mrs.)

How about Scheisslord?

180 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:01:30pm

re: #165 researchok

Just because they are funded by conservative money doesn't mean they are a propaganda outlet.

By that measure, anything funded by Soros ought to be equally suspect.

And the NA does have a good reputation.

Moreso, I read the piece carefully. I haven't seen anyone point out any substantive errors.

The criticism of the piece at this time is unwarranted,

Did you see the title of the book written by the author of that article? He's clearly biased. And those aren't "conservative" funders, they are right-wing bigoted lying propagandist funders. I don't know what books and websites are funded by Soros, but he's not railing against gay marriage or lying about science.Which makes this statement

By that measure, anything funded by Soros ought to be equally suspect.

a visit from the Magical Balance Fairy. She's not welcome here.

181 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:01:39pm
182 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:02:07pm

re: #177 HappyWarrior

I am just glad the Orioles won't have to go to Oakland for the WC game on Friday. They are hot right now.

Go dispatch Texas for me...I can't stand them.

183 Randall Gross  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:02:38pm

re: #150 reflections of a raging redneck

Writer for Townhall & Mitt Romney's site.

184 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:02:39pm

re: #174 researchok

Right.

The article however goes beyond that.

But it still lies about millions of people dying because of Rachel Carson's book.

185 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:02:48pm

Does Rachel look hot tonight or what? She's got a touch of cleavage showing too!

186 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:02:58pm

2012 Presidential and Vice-Presidential Debates | Campaign 2012 | C-SPAN

Warning. They're taking calls. Loopy people.

187 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:03:26pm

re: #186 Gus

2012 Presidential and Vice-Presidential Debates | Campaign 2012 | C-SPAN

Warning. They're taking calls. Loopy people.

C-SPAN callers are all on dial-up.

188 Mich-again  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:03:46pm

May I suggest this as the meme for the night of the 1st debate, For some reason it made me think of Mitt and his campaign..

Choo Choo ..

189 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:04:25pm

re: #186 Gus

2012 Presidential and Vice-Presidential Debates | Campaign 2012 | C-SPAN

Warning. They're taking calls. Loopy people.

People who watch cable television... which means they watch cable "news" channels... loopy is part of the package.

190 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:04:47pm

re: #180 wrenchwench

Magical Balance Fairy? I don't think so.

Soros gave in excess of $800 million to his Open Society Foundation.

In the money ideological money game, he's the clear winner- and hardly irrelevent.

191 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:05:00pm

re: #174 researchok

Right.

The article however goes beyond that.

I don't see anywhere that it does, no. It does perpetuate many of the myths and pieces of disinformation that I've seen spread elsewhere though. Typical would be this part right here:

While excellent literature, however, Silent Spring was very poor science. Carson claimed that DDT was threatening many avian species with imminent extinction. Her evidence for this, however, was anecdotal and unfounded. In fact, during the period of widespread DDT use preceding the publication of Silent Spring, bird populations in the United States increased significantly, probably as a result of the pesticide’s suppression of their insect disease vectors and parasites.

Carson rightly showed that specific avian species, mostly the ones that eat fish from waterways, were being affected by DDT. This has been proved to be true. The article stupidly, and rather obviously, talks about all bird populations, when DDT only affected a certain subpopulation. it's a classic bait-and-switch tactic used in propaganda.

By the way, it looks like the author of that piece is Robert Zubrin, a global warming denier. Why are you looking to him for science? He's one of those "CO2 is good for plants" fucking morons. He even thinks all global warming is good.

Why is this guy someone you trust for science?

192 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:05:26pm

re: #184 wrenchwench

But it still lies about millions of people dying because of Rachel Carson's book.

Anything funded by groups into AGW denial (which nearly all rightwing "think" tanks are) is automatically a steaming dung heap of dishonesty until proven otherwise by at least 10 independent, peer-reviewed sources.

That's how little credibility these people have left.

193 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:06:19pm
194 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:07:04pm

re: #184 wrenchwench

True- but he does bring up issues the other article did not.

The article was about a lot more than Carson- and she was not too pleased how her work was used, either.

195 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:07:22pm

re: #176 Decatur Deb

Might go for Conspiracy Today. My subscription to Popular Paranoia has just run out.

Michele's getting a bunch of kids. And I'm going to be her monitor.

196 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:07:47pm

re: #194 researchok

The author of that piece actually thinks that global warming is a good thing.

Why do you turn to him for input on anything?

197 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:07:56pm

Trusting a global warming denier for "science" is like trusting Tom Cruise for psychiatric advice.

198 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:08:33pm

re: #191 Sheeplord

Yes, Obdi.

That was all the article was about.

199 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:08:40pm
200 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:08:59pm

re: #193 darthstar

[Embedded content]

This time the husband is only kind of a jerk?

201 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:09:02pm

re: #196 Sheeplord

Do you read Ezra Klein?

Is he credible to you?

202 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:09:02pm

re: #196 Sheeplord

Can a writer not be wrong on one thing and right on another?

203 RadicalModerate  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:09:04pm

re: #182 darthstar

Go dispatch Texas for me...I can't stand them.

Why's that? After they got the new ownership team headed by Nolan Ryan, they have been quite outstanding.

It was during the late 1990s-mid 2000s (under the ownership of the rightwing slug Tom Hicks), where the team was literally run into the ground and was rife with scandal and mismanagement. I'm personally ecstatic that the scumbag went broke, and the Rangers got competent ownership.

204 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:09:11pm

re: #190 researchok

Magical Balance Fairy? I don't think so.

Soros gave in excess of $800 million to his Open Society Foundation.

In the money ideological money game, he's the clear winner- and hardly irrelevent.

The quantity of money has nothing to do with it. Did you miss the part about those are not conservatives, they are hateful bigots and science deniers!!! ? Does that mean nothing to you? You should not waste your brain cells believing a single thing they write.

205 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:09:15pm

re: #190 researchok

Magical Balance Fairy? I don't think so.

Soros gave in excess of $800 million to his Open Society Foundation.

In the money ideological money game, he's the clear winner- and hardly irrelevent.

If I'm paying someone to teach me something, that's tuition. If someone is paying to teach me something, that's propaganda. OTOH, Catholics grow up knowing that propaganda per se is not inherently bad. See: Congregation for the Propaganda of the Faith.

206 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:09:24pm

re: #197 Interesting Times

Trusting a global warming denier for "science" is like trusting Tom Cruise for psychiatric advice.

Well, he's not the classic denier, he's something even fucking weirder-- he thinks it's happening, and he thinks it's awesome. That's a denial of science even beyond what a normal denier can get up to. That's like saying "It's great that I'm on fire now. I can see so much better!"

207 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:09:32pm

re: #190 researchok

Magical Balance Fairy? I don't think so.

Soros gave in excess of $800 million to his Open Society Foundation.

In the money ideological money game, he's the clear winner- and hardly irrelevent.

Open Society Foundation isn't just a left-wing equivalent of the Kochs...for example:

Aung San Suu Kyi, leader of the opposition party, the National League for Democracy, was arrested for the first time in July 1989. She has been detained on three separate occasions and has spent more than 15 years under house arrest in Rangoon. Released from her latest sentence in November 2010, she continues to work to achieve democracy and national reconciliation in Burma in spite of continued threats and oppression from the ruling military regime. On her hand is written the name of Soe Min Min, a member of the National League for Democracy who was arrested in 2008 for praying at Shwedagon Pagoda for the release of Aung San Suu Kyi. He is serving a nine year sentence at Insein prison. Update: Soe Min Min was released from Insein prison according to a conditional amnesty announced by the Burmese regime on January 12, 2012.

At least they work for the better good of the planet.

208 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:09:49pm

Just read Frum's piece today on Katrina. Excellent.

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

209 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:10:05pm

I would ask Obama about the aliens!

210 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:10:56pm

re: #203 RadicalModerate

Why's that? After they got the new ownership team headed by Nolan Ryan, they have been quite outstanding.

It was during the late 1990s-mid 2000s (under the ownership of the rightwing slug Tom Hicks), where the team was literally run into the ground and was rife with scandal and mismanagement. I'm personally ecstatic that the scumbag went broke, and the Rangers got competent ownership.

Nolan Ryan is a douchebag. I was happy to see his sour-puss face in person in 2010 when the Giants walked all over them. Now, I do like Charlie Pride and spent a half hour talking to him, but he at least had a career in country music.

211 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:11:07pm

re: #205 Decatur Deb

In the eye of the beholder.

Agendas are like that.

An unfortunate legacy of our times.

212 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:11:18pm

re: #209 Gus

I would ask Obama about the aliens!

He already granted the younger ones asylum.

213 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:11:40pm

re: #211 researchok

So in your eye, someone who thinks that global warming is a very, very good thing is a guy you trust on science?

214 lostlakehiker  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:12:33pm

re: #149 mikeymom

i can sympathize a little with romney regarding the train noise- i live 45 mi no of denver-have been here 17 yrs and the trains going thru town at night are very disturbing. visitors are amazed. our town has been trying to work with the rr to no avail. some engineers really lean on the horn-15 sec,15 sec, 5 sec 20 sec
i know ive counted them. his handlers should have prepared him like i do my out of town visitors. getting drunk works best

His advance team should have found a more reasonable place. But if your campaign is coming apart at the seams, this sort of unbelievable screwup is at once a symptom and a cause.

This debate won't be a debate. It'll just be a poleaxing. A sleep deprived man is a man who can't work a 3 by 3 crossword puzzle, much less contest a debate.

215 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:13:08pm

re: #201 researchok

Do you read Ezra Klein?

Is he credible to you?

Do you have some reason to believe he's dishonest?

It's pretty easy to conclude AGW denialists are dishonest and in many cases paid shills.

216 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:13:11pm

re: #214 lostlakehiker

His advance team should have found a more reasonable place. But if your campaign is coming apart at the seams, this sort of unbelievable screwup is at once a symptom and a cause.

This debate won't be a debate. It'll just be a poleaxing. A sleep deprived man is a man who can't work a 3 by 3 crossword puzzle, much less contest a debate.

Or he's just getting the story out to lower expectations.

217 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:13:15pm

re: #207 darthstar

True- but there are right leaning organizations/publications that have done the same.

You can't lump everyone into one pot all the time, on the left or the right.

218 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:13:39pm

re: #213 Sheeplord

Again- do you read Ezra Klein?

219 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:13:50pm

At the doctor today, heard those words we all love to hear:

"We saw something we're going to need to take a closer look at."

Something is up with my liver, got to run a bunch of tests.

Balls.

220 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:14:32pm

re: #216 Sheeplord

Or he's just getting the story out to lower expectations.

Waste of electrons. My estimation cannot go lower.

221 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:14:49pm

re: #219 Kragar

At the doctor today, heard those words we all love to hear:

"We saw something we're going to need to take a closer look at."

Something is up with my liver, got to run a bunch of tests.

Balls.

If they find my TV remote in there, I'd like it back.

//

222 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:14:52pm
223 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:14:53pm

re: #218 researchok

Again- do you read Ezra Klein?

Nope.

So, again: In your beholder's eye, why do you turn to a guy who thinks global warming is great-- one of the stupidest, most pig-ignorant, and scientifically idiotic stances I've ever seen-- for information about science?

224 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:15:08pm
[B]oth candidates are banking on the "second screen," assuming many viewers will be watching with a laptop or mobile device close by, this year’s debates are likely to the most social and digital in history. How? First, both campaigns are rolling out new microsites for the debates — barackobama.com/debate and debates.mittromney.com.

That's us folks/

225 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:15:08pm

ATTACK the president but do it in a likeable way.

Mmmmm hmmmmm.

226 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:15:23pm

re: #202 Daniel Ballard

Can a writer not be wrong on one thing and right on another?

Absolutely.

But AGW denialists aren't just wrong.

227 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:15:26pm

re: #219 Kragar

At the doctor today, heard those words we all love to hear:

"We saw something we're going to need to take a closer look at."

Something is up with my liver, got to run a bunch of tests.

Balls.

So sorry. I heard those words once in an ultrasound.

Worst 24 hours of my life.

He's fine; he got his first prescription for glasses today, which is unsurprising as all four grandparents and both parents are near-sighted.

228 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:15:27pm

re: #219 Kragar

At the doctor today, heard those words we all love to hear:

"We saw something we're going to need to take a closer look at."

Something is up with my liver, got to run a bunch of tests.

Balls.

Best wishes and good luck to that indication amounting to no harm.

229 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:15:34pm

re: #215 reflections of a raging redneck

Yes, I have reason to believe Ezra Klein is a very hateful individual.

Conversely, I also believe he can be very credible.

People and their behaviors are complex- they cannot be so easily categorized.

230 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:15:58pm

Restarted Chrome (and Flash) just in case - given how the latter likes to crash at the most inopportune moments.

And, I've got enough live-streams open in tabs to have a backup for the backups... now bring them on!

231 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:16:05pm

re: #223 Sheeplord

Why?

Is he not credible to you?

232 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:16:50pm

re: #202 Daniel Ballard

Can a writer not be wrong on one thing and right on another?

If someone is so wrong about global warming as to think that it's a good thing, then they obviously are either completely scientifically ignorant, or they're just taking a position for another reason. Either way, listening to them about another scientific topic-- especially one like DDT, which is common fodder for right-wing propagandists-- is silly.

233 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:17:02pm

Heh:

234 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:17:09pm

re: #229 researchok

Yes, I have reason to believe Ezra Klein is a very hateful individual.

Conversely, I also believe he can be very credible.

People and their behaviors are complex- they cannot be so easily categorized.

Dang, do not want to enter this, but what am I missing about Ezra's hate?

235 RadicalModerate  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:17:09pm

re: #210 darthstar

Nolan Ryan is a douchebag. I was happy to see his sour-puss face in person in 2010 when the Giants walked all over them. Now, I do like Charlie Pride and spent a half hour talking to him, but he at least had a career in country music.

Let me guess.

Robin Ventura fan?

236 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:17:27pm

re: #231 researchok

Never mind the Ezra Klein pivot-and-attack (sorry, but you asked for that ;) )

Why are you granting so much leeway to a global warming denier? Would you grant the same leeway to something about medical issues written by anti-vaxxer Jenny McCarthy? If not, why not?

237 Charles Johnson  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:17:36pm

re: #225 Gus

ATTACK the president but do it in a likeable way.

Mmmmm hmmmmm.

He's got to rip into Obama like a meth-crazed weasel, yet remain personable.

238 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:18:04pm

re: #222 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Agreed...I mean, it is clear that the pervasive scourge of anti-white racism is the biggest problem facing our nation today. /

239 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:18:10pm

re: #233 Lidane

Heh:

[Embedded content]

"May the Farce be with you."

240 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:18:12pm

re: #237 Charles Johnson

He's got to rip into Obama like a meth-crazed weasel, yet remain personable.

End result... passive-aggressive. Winning!

241 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:18:13pm
242 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:18:17pm

re: #231 researchok

Why?

Is he not credible to you?

Nope.

243 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:18:45pm

re: #231 researchok

Why?

Is he not credible to you?

No, I just don't tend to read a lot of mainstream journalists. I honestly don't even know who he is.

Now, I'm being nice and all and answering your question, so do you think you could do the bare courtesy of answering mine?

Global warming is an absolutely horrific thing that's coming down the pipe. Anyone who understands the basics of the way the environment works knows how bad it is. This guy, however, is actively cheerleading it. He thinks it'll be great. This is not just wrong, this is the opposite of true. It's less true than denying it's happening in the first place.

So, again: Why do you turn to him for science?

244 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:18:55pm

re: #237 Charles Johnson

He's got to rip into Obama like a meth-crazed weasel, yet remain personable.

Romney picked an odd day to start taking bath salts.

245 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:18:59pm

re: #237 Charles Johnson

He's got to rip into Obama like a meth-crazed weasel, yet remain personable.

Which means there will be many dogs howling in the neighborhood tonight.

246 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:19:10pm

re: #219 Kragar

At the doctor today, heard those words we all love to hear:

"We saw something we're going to need to take a closer look at."

Something is up with my liver, got to run a bunch of tests.

Balls.

Crap.

Keep a stiff upper lid.

247 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:19:16pm

re: #237 Charles Johnson

Mitt does not have the charm of the honey badger.

248 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:19:49pm

re: #228 Daniel Ballard

Best wishes and good luck to that indication amounting to no harm.

The run down:

Did you ever spend time overseas? Yup.

Military Vaccines? Yup

Drink? Not really?

Diet? Heavier than I probably should be.

Likeliest scenarios: It's something I caught overseas catching up or its weight related.

249 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:19:57pm
250 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:19:57pm

re: #237 Charles Johnson

He's got to rip into Obama like a meth-crazed weasel, yet remain personable.

So he's gotta make his knuckles bleed.

/

251 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:19:57pm

I have offended the gods of FM radio.

I currently have Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown stuck in my head.

What was my sin?

What can I offer as a sacrifice?

252 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:19:58pm

re: #243 Sheeplord

No, I just don't tend to read a lot of mainstream journalists. I honestly don't even know who he is.

Now, I'm being nice and all and answering your question, so do you think you could do the bare courtesy of answering mine?

Global warming is an absolutely horrific thing that's coming down the pipe. Anyone who understands the basics of the way the environment works knows how bad it is. This guy, however, is actively cheerleading it. He thinks it'll be great. This is not just wrong, this is the opposite of true. It's less true than denying it's happening in the first place.

So, again: Why do you turn to him for science?

Confirmation bias.

253 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:20:07pm

re: #234 Blackity Black Black!

Try this

One of the milder criticisms.

Don't get me wrong- I read the guy and I like how he thinks. On certain subjects I take a more jaundiced look at his opinions, though.

254 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:20:22pm

re: #227 Mostly sane, most of the time.

So sorry. I heard those words once in an ultrasound.

Worst 24 hours of my life.

He's fine; he got his first prescription for glasses today, which is unsurprising as all four grandparents and both parents are near-sighted.

For a moment I thought it was the ultrasound tech that got the glasses. I need to improve my reading comprehension.

I heard "do we induce labor now or wait?" at an ultrasound, myself. We waited, he's fine. It does make one nervous...

255 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:20:32pm

re: #248 Kragar

The run down:

Did you ever spend time overseas? Yup.

Military Vaccines? Yup

Drink? Not really?

Diet? Heavier than I probably should be.

Likeliest scenarios: It's something I caught overseas catching up or its weight related.

What, do they think you've got an illegal immigrant hiding out in there?

256 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:20:48pm

re: #219 Kragar

At the doctor today, heard those words we all love to hear:

"We saw something we're going to need to take a closer look at."

Something is up with my liver, got to run a bunch of tests.

Balls.

Sucks.
Can I have your watch?

257 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:20:59pm

re: #247 freetoken

Mitt does not have the charm of the honey badger.

That's because honey badger don't give a shit and Mitt Romney keeps shitting all over himself whenever the far right yanks his leash.

258 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:21:10pm

re: #256 Decatur Deb

Sucks.
Can I have your watch?

Dibs on his computer!

//

259 jaunte  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:21:18pm

re: #251 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I have offended the gods of FM radio.

I currently have Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown stuck in my head.

What was my sin?

What can I offer as a sacrifice?

The sailors say "Brandy"

260 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:21:37pm

re: #259 jaunte

The sailors say "Brandy"

I hate you.

261 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:21:40pm

re: #243 Sheeplord

Because he c an be wrong one subject and not another.

Like a lot of people.

And as for the record= as you know- I am a AGW believer.

262 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:21:43pm

re: #256 Decatur Deb

Sucks.
Can I have your watch?

Sure. Last time I owned a watch was high school, no clue where it is now, but its all yours.

263 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:21:51pm

re: #259 jaunte

The sailors say "Brandy"

You ass!

/

264 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:21:52pm

Ha! My wife just got home from work...she printed out the Debate Bingo drinking game from Mother Jones! She loves me! She really loves me!

265 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:22:10pm

re: #252 Varek Raith

Confirmation bias.

Not true.

266 b_sharp  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:22:26pm

re: #229 researchok

Yes, I have reason to believe Ezra Klein is a very hateful individual.

Conversely, I also believe he can be very credible.

People and their behaviors are complex- they cannot be so easily categorized.

I've only heard him 4 times when he was subbing for Maddow. What articles have you read that make him look hateful?

267 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:22:49pm

re: #261 researchok

Because he c an be wrong one subject and not another.

Like a lot of people.

And as for the record= as you know- I am a AGW believer.

What makes you think he's not wrong on the subject of DDT when he's so stupidly wrong on AGW?

268 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:23:22pm

re: #255 Targetpractice

What, do they think you've got an illegal immigrant hiding out in there?

2 years duty in Japan, with a couple of weeks in Korea. They're think possible Hepatitis exposure.

269 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:23:46pm

re: #261 researchok

Because he c an be wrong one subject and not another.

Like a lot of people.

Again, if anti-vaxxer Jenny McCarthy wrote on article expounding on some other medical subject, would you grant her the same leeway you're granting this guy? If not, why not?

270 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:23:46pm

re: #268 Kragar

2 years duty in Japan, with a couple of weeks in Korea. They're think possible Hepatitis exposure.

Oooh, bad juju. My best to ya, man.

271 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:24:06pm

Twitter's gonna break.

272 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:24:15pm

re: #266 reflections of a raging redneck

See this- a more mild critique.

Also, see my 253

273 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:24:49pm

re: #261 researchok

Because he c an be wrong one subject and not another.
.

But why would you think that a guy who got it so badly wrong on AGW might have gotten int wrong on DDT?

Fine, he might be right on some other scientific subject, but why would you believe him over any of the many credible links you've been shown, and why would you not believe me when I show you specific parts of his argument he's gotten wrong-- like his false comparison between specific bird populations being affected by DDT, and all bird populations?

Especially since the two subjects are highly related, and this guy is obviously a right-wing ideologue?

274 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:25:00pm
275 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:25:02pm
276 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:25:05pm

re: #268 Kragar

2 years duty in Japan, with a couple of weeks in Korea. They're think possible Hepatitis exposure.

Hepatitis is fixable. No watch for me.

277 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:25:22pm

re: #271 Blackity Black Black!

Twitter's gonna break.

She cannae take much more, Capt'n!

278 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:25:27pm

re: #269 Interesting Times

OK, that was a good one- I laughed!

McCartheu is an advocate, noting more.

She's a one trick idiot pony looking for an audience.

279 Varek Raith  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:26:00pm

re: #276 Decatur Deb

Hepatitis is fixable. No watch for me.

We can still jump him.
/

280 RadicalModerate  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:26:13pm

re: #241 Blackity Black Black!

[Embedded content]

I like this one better - probably one of my all-time favorites.

Image: ObamaDoughnuts.jpg

281 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:26:16pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

We can still jump him.
/

I CUT YOU!

282 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:26:21pm

(ctrl-f's)

Holy shit. DDT again? Really?

For god's damn sake.

283 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:26:26pm

I prefer this to Brandy:

Youtube Video

I also like the Josie Cotton version.

284 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:26:47pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

We can still jump him.
/

Ferengi get-well cards.

285 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:27:08pm

re: #279 Varek Raith

We can still jump him.
/

We kill him, we all move up in rank.

286 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:27:14pm

re: #273 Sheeplord

I can ask that very same question to you.

Just because someone is wrong about some things doesn't mean they are wrong on everything.

And for the record, I do believe that.

287 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:27:17pm

re: #283 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I prefer this to Brandy:

[Embedded content]

I also like the Josie Cotton version.

Got you beat:

Youtube Video
288 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:27:24pm
289 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:27:24pm

re: #253 researchok

Try this

One of the milder criticisms.

Don't get me wrong- I read the guy and I like how he thinks. On certain subjects I take a more jaundiced look at his opinions, though.

That's your normal funny in my eyes. Not at all hateful.

Oh, if we are held to our bitter funny tweets.

What ev, but thanks for responding.

ps, I learned more about the health care debate from Ezra, and he has my Exceptionally Normal American respect.

290 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:28:04pm

re: #282 erik_t

(ctrl-f's)

Holy shit. DDT again? Really?

For god's damn sake.

I know, right? Of all the lost causes to champion, that one is the weirdest.

it really takes only a simple knowledge of biology to understand why widespread agricultural use of DDT-- or of many forms of pesticide-- is a bad idea. Resistant populations are inevitable. Higher levels of usage create mass resistance very quickly. Limiting the use preserves efficacy for vector control.

291 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:28:08pm

re: #278 researchok

OK, that was a good one- I laughed!

McCartheu is an advocate, noting more.

She's a one trick idiot pony looking for an audience.

How about "durr hurr, vaccines cause mental retardation" Michele Bachmann? Why is Robert "durr hurr, CO2 is plant food" Zubrin a more authoritative source that her?

292 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:29:23pm

re: #271 Blackity Black Black!

Twitter's gonna break.

Fail whales will be everywhere. Someone should get Captain Ahab on the line.

293 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:29:27pm

The Blues Image - Ride Captain Ride

Youtube Video
294 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:29:58pm

re: #286 researchok

I can ask that very same question to you.

No, you can't. I'm not the one pointing to a guy who thinks global warming would be great and saying he's written a good article on another environmental subject. I'm the one who's asking you why you're referencing him, and demosntraing the flaws in his argument. So no, you can't ask that question of me.

Just because someone is wrong about some things doesn't mean they are wrong on everything.

Of course not. But if someone is very, very, very, very, very wrong about an environmental subject, then you should be a lot more suspect of their views on other environmental subjects.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

295 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:30:12pm

re: #286 researchok

I can ask that very same question to you.

Just because someone is wrong about some things doesn't mean they are wrong on everything.

And for the record, I do believe that.

You should take this back.

Thanks for that, WW- I stand corrected.

Look like you didn't mean it.

296 calochortus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:31:11pm

Must go get started on dinner. I hope I'll be able to be back for at least part of the fun with the debate.

297 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:31:21pm

re: #293 Kragar

The Blues Image - Ride Captain Ride

[Embedded content]

I'll see you those and raise you this:

Youtube Video
298 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:31:35pm

re: #289 Blackity Black Black!

At the time it was nolaughing matter.

Russert died shortly thereafter and Klein was (rightly) excoriated for his remarks.

I think it was stupid on his part just because he took issue with Russert (not to mention the nature of the insult) but I attribute that to stupidity.

He screwed up.

He's human.

299 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:31:49pm

DWS

300 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:31:58pm

Well, at least we're getting a bit of a derp inoculation before Romney takes the stage. Kind of like a crazed tsar or something.

301 Gus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:32:13pm

Pelosi

302 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:32:19pm

haha, here's EZRA on MSNBC!

303 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:32:21pm

re: #291 Interesting Times

My opinions on Bachmann are no secret,

She is vicious. I have never supported her.

304 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:32:37pm

My good friend Barack just sent me an email.

Xxxxx --

In just a little while, I'll go on stage to meet Mitt Romney in the first presidential debate here in Denver.

I couldn't be prouder to represent you out there.

Annie, it's because of you that affordable health care is within reach for millions more Americans. It's because of you that we've seen 30 straight months of job growth and middle-class families have seen their taxes cut.

Together, we've done a lot -- but there is so much more to do to keep this country moving forward. That only happens if we win this election.

Before tonight's debate, will you chip in $3 to help finish this campaign strong?

305 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:33:21pm

re: #303 researchok

My opinions on Bachmann are no secret,

She is vicious. I have never supported her.

I'm not saying you have. I'm saying, why does she deserve your vitriol and NOT this Robert Zubrin "global warming is great" character? What makes him any better than her?

306 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:33:46pm

re: #304 wrenchwench

HOLY CRAP- were on the same email list!

Scary!
//

307 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:33:54pm

re: #304 wrenchwench

My good friend Barack just sent me an email.

The Great Orange Satan has also been asking for a lot of $3 donations. Is there some particular significance to this figure?

308 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:34:13pm

re: #297 bratwurst

I'll see you those and raise you this:

[Embedded content]

Noted Doo-Wop singer Ronnie James Dio

Youtube Video
309 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:34:26pm

re: #307 erik_t

The Great Orange Satan has also been asking for a lot of $3 donations. Is there some particular significance to this figure?

Youtube Video
310 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:34:48pm

re: #307 erik_t

The Great Orange Satan has also been asking for a lot of $3 donations. Is there some particular significance to this figure?

I think it's the smallest round dollar amount that doesn't cost more to process than itself.

311 engineer cat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:35:18pm

I'M NOT NERVOUS!!!

312 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:35:22pm

re: #305 Interesting Times

A) Because he is not vicious and B) This guy isn't talking about Global Warmimg.

If he did, I'd ignore him.

313 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:35:26pm
314 makeitstop  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:35:39pm

re: #293 Kragar

The Blues Image - Ride Captain Ride

[Embedded content]

I love the solo in that song. The guy who played it went on to join Iron Butterfly. His name escapes me at the moment.

315 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:35:46pm

re: #307 erik_t

The Great Orange Satan has also been asking for a lot of $3 donations. Is there some particular significance to this figure?

Probably to get people involved in some way because it's only 3 bucks...and to get their email so they can solicit more donations :-)

316 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:35:56pm

re: #312 researchok

A) Because he is not vicious and B) This guy isn't talking about Global Warmimg.

If he did, I'd ignore him.

Did you see the title of his book?

317 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:36:00pm

re: #307 erik_t

The Great Orange Satan has also been asking for a lot of $3 donations. Is there some particular significance to this figure?

It's what I can afford and what I send. In increments. (Not to Kos, to the O campaign.) A psychologist probably has a study...

318 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:36:30pm

Where's DF? We need someone here to tell us Romney's winning.

319 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:36:33pm

re: #7 Varek Raith

*Drives by Romney's hotel in this*

[Embedded content]

Train horn videos involving unsuspecting victims being startled half to death never fail to crack me up. It's as funny to me now as a fart joke was when I was 8. Probably because I never progressed much past 12. It never gets old. Yes, I'm one of those idiots.

320 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:36:50pm

re: #316 wrenchwench

On that subjecdt, he's a moron.

Hell there are Nobel Prize winners who go off the deep end.

321 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:37:47pm

re: #320 researchok

On that subjecdt, he's a moron.

Hell there are Nobel Prize winners who go off the deep end.

And how is "that subject" different from "that article" which you continue to defend?

322 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:38:06pm

There's a reason that, even in his professional field, Zubrin has been reduced more to preaching to fringe advocacy groups than being intimately involved with actual programs. It's because he's a fringe nutter.

323 jamesfirecat  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:38:14pm

re: #318 darthstar

Where's DF? We need someone here to tell us Romney's winning.

From what I've seen DF does not think Romney is winning, he just wants him to...

324 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:38:25pm

re: #306 researchok

HOLY CRAP- were on the same email list!

Scary!
//

He kept inviting me to dinner. I felt kinda bad about brushing him off, so I paypal'd him like $15.

325 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:38:34pm

re: #319 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Train horn videos involving unsuspecting victims being startled half to death never fail to crack me up. It's as funny to me now as a fart joke was when I was 8. Probably because I never progressed much past 12. It never gets old. Yes, I'm one of those idiots.

Then you'll enjoy this:

Youtube Video
326 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:39:04pm
327 bratwurst  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:39:38pm

If a guy who was ridiculously wrong on a scientific point also had an opinion on baseball, I might listen.

If this same guy had more scientific opinions...I'm going to take a pass.

What is so hard to understand about this?

328 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:39:45pm

re: #320 researchok

On that subjecdt, he's a moron.

Hell there are Nobel Prize winners who go off the deep end.

Bobby Fischer is a hideously disgusting, pro-genocide anti-Semite, but that (unfortunately) doesn't take away his skill at chess.

But if he reviewed a book about Israel, I trust you wouldn't say "well, he might be right about some things."

If someone tells vicious lies about the greatest environmental threat facing humanity, it goes without saying anything else they say about other environmental issues is bloody nonsense by default.

329 erik_t  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:39:59pm

re: #326 Blackity Black Black!

How is that calming? RT @dgjackson: Backstage with family playing jenga.

Mitt probably gets to watch someone else fuck up and topple the tower.

330 Kaessa  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:40:01pm

re: #326 Blackity Black Black!

[Embedded content]

Ok, which one of them is drinking the Diet Coke? Bad Mormons!

331 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:40:04pm

re: #321 wrenchwench

The article was a book review.

332 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:40:57pm

San Francisco this weekend: Two Giants playoff games, 49ers home game, three day Hardly Strictly Bluegrass festival in Golden Gate Park (attracts 200K people/day), Fleet Week, Castro Street Fair (goes with Fleet Week because of all the seamen), and North Beach parade this weekend...in other words, not much to do, so I think I'll watch bowling on TV.

333 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:41:19pm

re: #330 Kaessa

Ok, which one of them is drinking the Diet Coke? Bad Mormons!

Coke is a best-judgment type of thing.

Coffee is not.

(I stay away from caffeine because I'm already wired like a Gremlin on crack.)

334 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:41:23pm

re: #326 Blackity Black Black!

[Embedded content]

Every tile has a debate question, then you see if it crashes on the same one that Romney does

335 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:41:26pm

My leg is tingling already.

336 Decatur Deb  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:41:39pm

re: #330 Kaessa

Ok, which one of them is drinking the Diet Coke? Bad Mormons!

There are no glasses in that photo.

337 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:41:55pm

re: #330 Kaessa

Ok, which one of them is drinking the Diet Coke? Bad Mormons!

lol!

338 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:41:56pm

re: #326 Blackity Black Black!

339 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:42:19pm

re: #335 Killgore Trout

My leg is tingling already.

I told you Rachel looked hot tonight.

340 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:42:19pm

re: #335 Killgore Trout

My leg is tingling already.

QUIT SITTING THAT WAY! WALK IT OFF!

341 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:42:23pm

re: #331 researchok

The article was a book review.

No it isn't.

Editor’s Note: The essay below is adapted from Robert Zubrin’s Merchants of Despair: Radical Environmentalists, Criminal Pseudo-Scientists, and the Fatal Cult of Antihumanism, the latest in our New Atlantis Books series.

342 Kaessa  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:42:41pm

re: #333 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Coke is a best-judgment type of thing.

Coffee is not.

(I stay away from caffeine because I'm already wired like a Gremlin on crack.)

I remember back when I was a Mormon, they definitely frowned on Coke. My mom used to sneak Pepsi when nobody was looking.

343 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:43:33pm

In perusing anthropological data relevant for today's political climate, Eric Johnson writes very clearly and concisely:

It is clear that John Galt was not present in our ancestral family tree.

The article takes a look at Ayn Rand and how her vision of humanity differs from that of what scientists looking at human development has discovered. I wish it had more detail, but it is a start.

344 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:43:34pm

re: #328 Interesting Times

But if he wrote a book about Israel, I trust you wouldn't say "well, he might be right about some things."

Not at all- but that doesn't mean he wasn't a great chess player, as you noted or was wrong about everything all the time.

He specifically addressed Carson's book and even noted how politicized it was- quoting those who did just that

Excerpt:

Those who praised the book were often quite open about its essentially polemical character: “No one is in a better position than Miss Carson to arouse the indignation of the public,” noted The Nation.[30] While Lamont Cole, writing in Scientific American, was “glad this provocative book has been written,” he admitted that it was not a “fair and impartial appraisal of all the evidence” but “a highly partisan selection of examples and interpretations that support the author’s thesis.” This tactic is apparently justified, to his mind, by the fact that “the extreme opposite has been impressed on the public by skilled professional molders of public opinion.”[31] Such hostility to the existing business, scientific, and governmental establishment, which is only now showing signs of abating among some environmentalists, created a sense that ecological PR needs to fight business PR. That, at least, is what Commonweal might have had in mind with this otherwise cryptic lead for its review: “Silent Spring represents a major breakthrough in the communications industry.”[32]

345 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:45:06pm

re: #335 Killgore Trout

My leg is tingling already.

Sure you're not having a stroke?

//

346 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:45:07pm

re: #341 wrenchwench

Yes, it is a review or two books

347 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:45:31pm

re: #344 researchok

Not at all- but that doesn't mean he wasn't a great chess player, as you noted or was wrong about everything all the time.

He specifically addressed Carson's book and even noted how politicized it was- quoting those who did just that

Excerpt:

The guy is a crazy science denier, funded by hater right wing propagandists. He has no credibility, so you're wasting pixels by quoting him.

348 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:45:43pm

re: #344 researchok

He specifically addressed Carson's book and even noted how politicized it was- quoting those who did just that

So what? The title of his so-called essay collection wrenchwench quoted tells me everything I need to know - he's as kooky as Jenny McCarthy and as vicious as Michele Bachmann.

You might as well tell me "hey, Rush Limbaugh makes good points from time to time..."

349 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:45:58pm

scotchy scotch scotch

350 Targetpractice  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:46:06pm

Guess I should go get the popcorn read. The fun's 'bout to begin.

351 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:46:14pm

re: #341 wrenchwench

See the front page.

352 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:46:17pm

let's get this depraved spectacle started

353 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:46:45pm

re: #349 SpaceJesus

scotchy scotch scotch

Youtube Video
354 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:47:07pm

While I give no chance to any question about evolution (or even any science) being raised in tonight's debate, I think the following would bring answers illustrative of the difference between Romney and Obama:

When looking at human evolution, where do the "John Galt" types appear?

355 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:47:11pm

Koch Bros. upset. Buy Union Pacific Railroad and fire all the engineers.

356 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:47:12pm

re: #342 Kaessa

I remember back when I was a Mormon, they definitely frowned on Coke. My mom used to sneak Pepsi when nobody was looking.

I was raised that way, too, but my mother drank Coke while she was the Relief Society president.

(It gets rid of her headaches.)

It really has become a best-judgment thing.

My judgment is that I need not to have to be scraped off the ceiling.

357 Kragar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:47:14pm

re: #352 SpaceJesus

let's get this depraved spectacle started

Youtube Video
358 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:47:40pm

re: #328 Interesting Times

Bobby Fischer is a hideously disgusting, pro-genocide anti-Semite, but that (unfortunately) doesn't take away his skill at chess.

But if he wrote a book about Israel, I trust you wouldn't say "well, he might be right about some things."

If someone tells vicious lies about the greatest environmental threat facing humanity, it goes without saying anything else they say about other environmental issues is bloody nonsense by default.

BTW, Fischer's been an ex-chess player for about four years now, just so you know...

359 Amory Blaine  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:47:52pm

Bahh I have to work 3rd tonight. I have to spectate sober.

360 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:48:02pm

re: #346 researchok

Yes, it is a review or two books

He talks about two books, but he adds other info and commentary, and wrote his own book doing more of same. It is not a book review.

re: #351 researchok

See the front page.

I did. So what. Rachel's book is 50 years old and they talk about it, and add a pile of crap of their own. Yes, there are two essays. Neither of them is a book review.

361 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:48:24pm

re: #359 Amory Blaine

that's like getting a root canal with no anesthesia

362 TheMidnightReview  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:48:30pm

What is this? "My Cousin Mitty?"

What's next? A loud whistle and a hooting owl to disrupt his precious sleep? Is Herman Munster moderating the debate?

363 danarchy  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:48:36pm

re: #330 Kaessa

Ok, which one of them is drinking the Diet Coke? Bad Mormons!

Hard to tell in the picture, but I think I see the gold color on the label that indicates it is the caffeine free variety.

Which maybe ok for mormons, but is an abomination in my eyes.

364 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:48:37pm

re: #351 researchok

Hey! Just because Orly Taitz is a horrible lawyer, doesn't mean she's automatically a horrible dentist and real estate agent too! :P

Not accusing you of being a birther in case you choose to interpret my comment as such - just pointing out birthers and AGW deniers are equivalent

365 darthstar  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:48:45pm
366 Digital Display  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:50:02pm

This is how you start a debate..AC/DC

Youtube Video
367 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:50:21pm

re: #348 Interesting Times

Another excerpt:

Carson’s critics certainly used some unscientific arguments against her. Chemical and Engineering News claimed that she had ignored “the sound appraisals of such responsible, broadly knowledgeable scientists as the President of the National Academy of Sciences, the members of the President’s Scientific Advisory Committee, the Presidents of the Rockefeller Foundation and Nutrition Foundation,” as if mere arguments from authority would settle the issue.[36] But Carson herself may have invited them by suggesting that scientists who favor present pesticide practices “prostitute their professional work in order to win lucrative research fellowships,” as a review in The American City put it. “This callous smear of the professional integrity of those who disagree with her is ugly. Miss Carson would be indignant if they countered that she based her writings on what would sell the most books rather than on what is fair and impartial analysis. But one suggestion follows another.”[37]

Critics typically accused the book of being one-sided, presenting none of the benefits to health and food production that had been wrought by pesticide use. Science argued that the book was not “a judicial review or a balancing of the gains and losses; rather, it is the prosecuting attorney’s impassioned plea for action against the use of these new materials which have received such widespread acceptance, acceptance accorded because of the obvious benefits their use has conferred.”[38] Carson’s attitude toward technology, Chemical and Engineering News noted, would mean “disease, epidemics, starvation, misery and suffering incomparable and intolerable to modern man.”[39]

Most seriously, Carson was accused of misrepresenting or misunderstanding the evidence she cited. A review in Archives of Internal Medicine asserted that Silent Spring “as science, is so much hogwash.”[40] I have not been able to locate any review that attempted to take up her errors in the presentation of scientific material in any great detail. Still, the general points that are mentioned are far from trivial, such as Carson’s assertion that birth-to-death exposure to “dangerous chemicals” is a new phenomenon,[41] or her failure to appreciate that the dose makes the poison.[42] Lamont Cole’s generally favorable review treats this question in a very curious way: “Errors of fact are so infrequent, trivial and irrelevant to the main themes that it would be ungallant to dwell on then.” He mentions one or two, but more to the point he finds two of Carson’s main conceptual foundations highly suspect: her assumption that here is a “balance of nature,” and that insects who exhibit resistance to pesticides will turn into super bugs.[43] Other Carson partisans and critics have pointed to different factual errors.[44]

From the review.

If the guy is wrong, well, that is one thing. Simply dismissing an article because you don't like the source is wrong.

368 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:50:34pm

oh onion

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

369 Interesting Times  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:51:12pm

re: #367 researchok

If you quote a lengthy excerpt from Limbaugh's site as if it might contain something remotely resembling truth, I'll ignore that as well. Liars are liars.

370 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:51:13pm

They know what "the base" wants:

Romney-Ryan Raise Funds By Demanding Eric Holder's Resignation

371 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:51:29pm

re: #368 SpaceJesus

oh onion

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

Onion must have just watched "Something About Mary."

372 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:51:31pm

re: #367 researchok

Another excerpt:

From the review.

If the guy is wrong, well, that is one thing. Simply dismissing an article because you don't like the source is wrong.

Yeah, that's why I pointed out a specific flaw in the article. You decided to ignore it.

373 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:51:45pm

re: #366 Digital Display

This is how you start a debate..AC/DC

[Embedded content]

I would prefer this, if you're gonna have AC/DC lead it off:

Youtube Video
374 freetoken  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:53:02pm

Lehrer is looking old.

375 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:53:16pm

re: #373 Gert Fröbe

I would prefer this, if you're gonna have AC/DC lead it off:

[Embedded content]

I'm sorry, but Mitt has to come out to this

Youtube Video
376 SpaceJesus  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:53:23pm

absolute silence.

377 Digital Display  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:53:32pm

re: #373 Gert Fröbe

I would prefer this, if you're gonna have AC/DC lead it off:

[Embedded content]

Perhaps at the end we could play, Bang your head..Mental health will drive you mad

378 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:54:13pm

re: #351 researchok

See the front page.

And you know why I looked at the front page? I read the article first, and I saw the lies in it, and wanted to learn more about the publication because you said it was "more left-leaning". In order to find out more about the publication,I clicked on "About". There I clicked on "Our Publisher". Then I did some googling. Then I shared what I learned with you. Everything since then has been a waste of time. Now your credibility is damaged too.

379 Killgore Trout  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:55:02pm

re: #339 darthstar

I told you Rachel looked hot tonight.

I don't get the appeal on so many different levels.

380 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:56:04pm

re: #370 freetoken

They know what "the base" wants:

Romney-Ryan Raise Funds By Demanding Eric Holder's Resignation

If you're still trying to win your base a month before the election, you're well and truly fucked.

The tell all books about Romney's campaign will be interesting.

381 Lidane  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:57:31pm

re: #379 Killgore Trout

I don't get the appeal on so many different levels.

She's smart, funny, quirky, and is good at what she does. What's not to love?

382 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:57:35pm

re: #251 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I have offended the gods of FM radio.

I currently have Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown stuck in my head.

What was my sin?

What can I offer as a sacrifice?

This is why I only listen to classical music. So when I get something stuck in my head, it's usually this:

Youtube Video
383 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:59:19pm

re: #364 Interesting Times

Not a birther, either.

No secret there.

In fact, my politics have substantially migrated to the left.

(WW had the best line referring to me- He's a recovering righty' or something to that effect)

Now, having said that, I do have issues with how some of the left respond to the 'other side' in the same way lots of the right respond to teh left.

Politics is not zero sum game. Notwithstanding the take no prisoners approach (heightened during election season) a healthy democracy requires a healthy opposition.

It's funny- I'm far closer to left of center than I've ever been (I'm an Obama fan, big time)- and yet I am astonished at just how vicious and personal attacks can be just for having a different idea.

It is a big reason I refuse to make the leap, so to speak.

Ironically, Ezra Klein is someone I relate to. He's far more honest than most of the lefties out there.

384 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 5:59:41pm

re: #369 Interesting Times

What in that quote was inaccurate?

385 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:00:06pm

re: #378 wrenchwench

What lies?

386 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:01:01pm

re: #379 Killgore Trout

I don't get the appeal on so many different levels.

Brains are sexy, even if she is gay.

387 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:01:45pm

re: #385 researchok

What lies?

About Carson's book being responsible for millions of deaths. I've already said that. You read selectively.

388 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:03:17pm

re: #378 wrenchwench

Now your credibility is damaged too.

I'm really surprised at that remark.

389 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:05:21pm

re: #387 wrenchwench

Right.There were no deaths related to the cessation of DDT use.

That's why there is a movement to bring it back in some circumstances.

390 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:05:22pm

re: #388 researchok

I'm really surprised at that remark.

You shouldn't be. Did you read the rest of that comment?

391 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:07:20pm

Bobby Fischer is, by the same measure, an ex-anti-Semite for the last three years.

Perhaps he has been enlightened. Or eaten by worms. Or re-incarnated as a worm.

Pick your religion.

392 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:07:36pm

re: #390 wrenchwench

Yes, i did.

Here's what some folks at Harvard had to say on the subject

393 Obdicut  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:13:29pm

re: #389 researchok

Right.There were no deaths related to the cessation of DDT use.

That's why there is a movement to bring it back in some circumstances.

No, dude, it was never banned for vector control. It just never was. It was banned for agricultural use. So it's not being 'brought back', it never went away.

But if you mass spray it, then you get quick resistant populations of mosquitoes. So the banning of it actually preserves the efficacy of it for vector control.

How many times does this have to get explained to you? What part are you not understanding?

394 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:14:59pm

re: #392 researchok

Yes, i did.

Here's what some folks at Harvard had to say on the subject

Harvard does not say Carson's book was responsible for millions of deaths. That article you Paged did. That's your credibility on the line.

Also, see #295.

395 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:16:15pm

re: #393 Sheeplord

From Harvard CID

According to the World Health Organisation estimates, there are 300-500 million cases of malaria each year and around one million deaths. These numbers are climbing, by up to 20 percent a year in some regions. Peru, for example, experienced a seven-fold increase between 1990 and 1996. Cases of a fatal strain of malaria jumped from 140 to 36 000 in the Loreto region of the Amazon basin. South Africa had 8 750 cases and 44 deaths in 1995, but nearly 51000 cases and 393 deaths in 1999. Just one village near Oka Priyanti's home in Indonesia had around 15 cases a year through the early 1990s, but 921 last year.

Residents of Western countries are also at risk. Not only are travellers to the developing world being infected but occasionally disease carrying mosquitoes are being brought into Europe by aircraft from the tropics.

According to many scientists and health experts, a number of factors are responsible for the resurgence, including the increasing resistance of the malaria parasite to treatment drugs. But one reason towers above all others.

"For years, the rich, developed nations that no longer have malaria have pressured tropical countries which do into giving up DDT," says Don Roberts, professor of tropical public health at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland. "When countries stop using DDT, malaria spirals out of control." Even so, the United Nations Environmental Program is on the verge of a momentous, and controversial, decision - to phase out the use of DDT."

396 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:17:29pm

re: #394 wrenchwench

Parsing words as argument?

The issue is the non use of DDT for a long time.

See the quote above.

397 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:18:10pm

The article is also crap because it's citing older articles that attack a straw man version of Rachel Carson.

It is not my contention that chemical insecticides must never be used. I do contend that we have put poisonous and biologically potent chemicals indiscriminately into the hands of persons largely or wholly ignorant of their potentials for harm. We have subjected enormous numbers of people to contact with these poisons, without their consent and often without their knowledge.

From Silent Spring.

Any argument that starts from "Rachel Carson spearheaded the ban of DDT and that killed millions worldwide" is horseshit.

398 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:21:10pm

re: #397 The Ghost of a Flea

As I noted earlier Carson herself understood here message was hijacked.

399 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:22:12pm

re: #396 researchok

Parsing words as argument?

The issue is the non use of DDT for a long time.

See the quote above.

Also that's not from Harvard, it's from Readers' Digest.

400 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:25:58pm

CID publishes all kinds of articles from all kinds of sources.

Are there any substantive errors in the article?

Is there a reason Harvard should not have published the article?

401 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:27:46pm

re: #400 researchok

CID publishes all kinds of articles from all kinds of sources.

Are there any substantive errors in the article?

Is there a reason Harvard should not have published the article?

No, there's a reason you should not have said, "Here's what some folks at Harvard had to say on the subject".

402 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:30:57pm

re: #401 wrenchwench

OK

I stand corrected, I should have said 'This RD article was published by Harvard's CID'.

403 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:31:32pm

re: #402 researchok

OK

I stand corrected, I should have said 'This RD article was published by Harvard's CID'.

Thanks. I have now moved on.

404 researchok  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:33:13pm

re: #403 wrenchwench

As will I.

I do hope your other remark was the result of moment of irritation rather than a personal attack.

Regardless, I will treat it as such.

405 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Oct 3, 2012 6:39:09pm

re: #398 researchok

As I noted earlier Carson herself understood here message was hijacked.

That doesn't explain why you're holding up an article that presents Carson as the perpetrator. Or that its copypastaing reviews and presenting said reviews as somehow factual, as opposed to contrary opinions that are also pearl-clutching about Carson's purported callousness, nor the fact that Carson's "intent" was hijacked first by a massive smear campaign before the book was published. The chemical combines that smeared Rachel Carson made a choice to ignore a message that would actual help people--use chemicals carefully and as directed--and crafted the false dichotomy of Ban It Entirely versus Keep Dumping It On The Market.

Also, your "Harvard" piece is from Reader's Digest, and fails to address that DDT resistance in mosquitoes was a major factor in not using it any more. Resistance was already an issue in the 50s and remains so. Dumping metric tons of a pesticide into an environment results in adaptation...just like we're seeing now with Round-Up resistant weeds. DDT in the 3rd World was supposed to be used inside small houses, not fogged across agricultural land.


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