1 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:32:04pm |
2 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:34:09pm |
He should lose all cred (I know like he had any) with that Nickelback poster in the background. That's just simply unacceptable.
3 | allegro Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:34:52pm |
That shade of lipstick is a bit too pink for his complexion doncha think?
4 | William of Orange Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:34:55pm |
5 | R.M, Ramallo Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:36:05pm |
re: #3 allegro
That shade of lipstick is a bit too pink for his complexion doncha think?
I was waiting for him to go all silence of the lambs...
Do you think I'm sexy? I think I'm sexy...
6 | Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:36:45pm |
7 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:37:00pm |
re: #5 Reverend Mother Ramallo
I was waiting for him to go all silence of the lambs...
Do you think I'm sexy? I think I'm sexy...
Would you fuck me? I'd fuck me. All of course with Goodbye Horses playing in the background.
8 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:38:39pm |
re: #6 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance
The way he dismisses pre-existing conditions pisses me off. My heart condition is genetic and if that ass had his way, I'd be able to be denied insurance because of it.
9 | R.M, Ramallo Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:39:20pm |
re: #7 HappyWarrior
Would you fuck me? I'd fuck me. All of course with Goodbye Horses playing in the background.
That's it...
I knew it was something like that!
10 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:40:11pm |
re: #9 Reverend Mother Ramallo
That's it...
I knew it was something like that!
I caught the tail end of the movie back in July. That movie still creeps me out.
11 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:40:50pm |
freetoken: you should be seeing the new Image Library button in the comment form now, right?
12 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:42:32pm |
Aw, Comedy Central shut down access to their mobile MP4 videos. I hope that means they're going to move their regular videos away from Flash soon.
13 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:43:11pm |
re: #11 Charles Johnson
I just reloaded and see 6 long-ish buttons:
top - "logout"
below - "upload image" "spelling" "preview" "post it"
bottom - "show users"
15 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:44:22pm |
re: #11 Charles Johnson
freetoken: you should be seeing the new Image Library button in the comment form now, right?
I can see it now.
16 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:44:51pm |
The new button does show up in the regular non-spy page.
17 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:45:28pm |
re: #16 freetoken
The new button does show up in the regular non-spy page.
Ah! That's why. It's not in the spy yet. I keep forgetting that some folks use that most of the time.
18 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:46:08pm |
re: #17 Charles Johnson
I use the Spy almost 100% of the time.
19 | A Mom Anon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:46:58pm |
re: #8 HappyWarrior
They honestly don't care if it doesn't directly effect them. I fought with insurance companies for years to get my son various therapies for his Aspergers when he needed early intervention ,and the pre-existing condition bullshit meant they paid for NOTHING. Not one dime for occupational,or sensory integration or speech therapy or any of it. We lucked out with a school system that did some of it,but I had to give up any shot at going to school or a career to devote my whole life to learning how to be a DIY therapist. No family should have to deal with that,for any medical or developmental issue,EVER. And I know we were lucky compared to many families.
If one more wingnut whines about socialized medicine to me I can't guarantee I won't throw something at them.
20 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:48:35pm |
re: #18 freetoken
Reminds me - I have to add the new improved uploading code to the Spy too.
21 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:49:19pm |
What possibly could go wrong?
22 | Tigger2 Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:51:14pm |
re: #8 HappyWarrior
The way he dismisses pre-existing conditions pisses me off. My heart condition is genetic and if that ass had his way, I'd be able to be denied insurance because of it.
Same here.
23 | R.M, Ramallo Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:52:28pm |
re: #19 A Mom Anon
They honestly don't care if it doesn't directly effect them. I fought with insurance companies for years to get my son various therapies for his Aspergers when he needed early intervention ,and the pre-existing condition bullshit meant they paid for NOTHING. Not one dime for occupational,or sensory integration or speech therapy or any of it. We lucked out with a school system that did some of it,but I had to give up any shot at going to school or a career to devote my whole life to learning how to be a DIY therapist. No family should have to deal with that,for any medical or developmental issue,EVER. And I know we were lucky compared to many families.
If one more wingnut whines about socialized medicine to me I can't guarantee I won't throw something at them.
They whine about it until something personal happens, then it's
"Oh, The insurance companies are evil, why won't someone do something..."
They are maddening.
24 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:53:11pm |
Welch confesses:
25 | Obdicut Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:54:51pm |
re: #24 freetoken
Welch confesses:
The economy gradually recovering is the trivially predictable thing. It takes a weird man to declare it a conspiracy.
26 | A Mom Anon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:55:13pm |
re: #24 freetoken
In other words he was just being a rich,self-important, entitled assclown because he could. Nice work,Jack!! Yay you!!
27 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:55:44pm |
=re: #23 Reverend Mother Ramallo
They whine about it until something personal happens, then it's
"Oh, The insurance companies are evil, why won't someone do something..."
They are maddening.
Yep. Really. I am just grateful I was able to stay on my Mom's plan because it would have been very hard for me on my own to take care of the defibrillator I got installed. Which by the way has made my life a lot easier than it was before when it comes to energy and feeling good about my heart.
28 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:56:24pm |
Man, the right wing really is losing their shit over these new unemployment stats.
29 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:56:45pm |
re: #26 A Mom Anon
In other words he was just being a rich,self-important, entitled assclown because he could. Nice work,Jack!! Yay you!!
Who ran a company that paid no taxes.
30 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:57:28pm |
re: #28 Charles Johnson
Man, the right wing really is losing their shit over these new unemployment stats.
Again, why do they hate America?
31 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:58:00pm |
re: #24 freetoken
Welch confesses:
Of course not but tweeted it anyhow and doubled down on the stupidity because he was trying to sell it to an audience who will actually buy it because they take people like him seriously. Maybe I should accuse him of molesting children. After all, I have no evidence but I want to smear him so it shouldn't matter!
32 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 3:59:37pm |
re: #19 A Mom Anon
They honestly don't care if it doesn't directly effect them. I fought with insurance companies for years to get my son various therapies for his Aspergers when he needed early intervention ,and the pre-existing condition bullshit meant they paid for NOTHING. Not one dime for occupational,or sensory integration or speech therapy or any of it. We lucked out with a school system that did some of it,but I had to give up any shot at going to school or a career to devote my whole life to learning how to be a DIY therapist. No family should have to deal with that,for any medical or developmental issue,EVER. And I know we were lucky compared to many families.
If one more wingnut whines about socialized medicine to me I can't guarantee I won't throw something at them.
Of course they don't and that's why Mitt's a dickhead. He has no empathy or even a desire to empathize with people in tough situations.
33 | Hercules Grytpype-Thynne Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:01:45pm |
re: #8 HappyWarrior
The way he dismisses pre-existing conditions pisses me off. My heart condition is genetic and if that ass had his way, I'd be able to be denied insurance because of it.
Assholish asshole is assholish.
34 | A Mom Anon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:02:56pm |
re: #32 HappyWarrior
This is why too much inherited wealth is a bad idea. Seriously,if you've had it all handed to you it's incredibly easy to think other people don't have what you do because they aren't as smart or they're lazy. It makes you an asshole of the highest order. The only wealthy people who aren't like that are ones who WANT to understand. Or the ones that had to work their asses off to get somewhere and know they didn't do it alone. Most likely they had older,wiser people around them when they were young who made sure they had at least some exposure to the real world.
35 | blueraven Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:06:04pm |
re: #28 Charles Johnson
Man, the right wing really is losing their shit over these new unemployment stats.
They lost a huge talking point. They will not take this lying down!
36 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:07:28pm |
re: #35 blueraven
They lost a huge talking point. They will not take this lying down!
Yeah but claiming that the administration fudged the numbers only makes them look more crazy and desperate.
37 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:08:15pm |
re: #36 HappyWarrior
Yeah but claiming that the administration fudged the numbers only makes them look more crazy and desperate.
To us. Us only. The team believes wholeheartedly.
38 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:08:46pm |
re: #37 Blackity Black Black!
To us. Us only. The team believes wholeheartedly.
I dunno. I think those claims will turn off independent and swing voters.
39 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:10:00pm |
re: #38 HappyWarrior
I dunno. I think those claims will turn off independent and swing voters.
Yeah. Whoever they are.
40 | blueraven Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:11:56pm |
re: #24 freetoken
Welch confesses:
Too late.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
He shot his mouth off and looks like a fool because he supports Romney, all over .3%
41 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:13:22pm |
re: #39 Blackity Black Black!
Yeah. Whoever they are.
Yeah I know. I just think the average voter if they hear about Welch's claims is going to be turned off. The only people who will like it are people who believe the crazy anti Obama conspiracy theories in the first place.
42 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:16:37pm |
re: #41 HappyWarrior
Yeah I know. I just think the average voter if they hear about Welch's claims is going to be turned off. The only people who will like it are people who believe the crazy anti Obama conspiracy theories in the first place.
I think anyone for Romney sees any possible conspiracy thrown out there as a net plus. Anything to cast doubt. Against their better judgement and morals. (See DF this a.m.).
wheeeeee
44 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:18:12pm |
45 | Varek Raith Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:19:01pm |
46 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:28:00pm |
47 | engineer cat Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:28:36pm |
re: #28 Charles Johnson
Man, the right wing really is losing their shit over these new unemployment stats.
what would voters care more about - atmospherics at the debate or signs of life in the economy?
inquiring minds wants to know
48 | Obdicut Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:29:15pm |
re: #47 engineer cat
If I ever run for president, I'm just going to do a laser show for my portion of the debate. And some club dancing.
49 | engineer cat Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:30:54pm |
re: #48 Sheeplord
If I ever run for president, I'm just going to do a laser show for my portion of the debate. And some club dancing.
why don't presidential campaigns include swimsuit competitions?
50 | Aye Pod Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:31:15pm |
re: #42 Blackity Black Black!
I think anyone for Romney sees any possible conspiracy thrown out there as a net plus. Anything to cast doubt. Against their better judgement and morals. (See DF this a.m.).
wheeeeee
Butthurt happens when delusions meet reality, and can only be soothed by more, often worse delusions. Which sets them up for an even greater butthurt, and so on. Positive feedback loops - nasty business.
51 | Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:35:59pm |
re: #49 engineer cat
why don't presidential campaigns include swimsuit competitions?
Because nobody (I hope) wants to see Romney in a speedo...
52 | Aye Pod Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:37:27pm |
re: #48 Sheeplord
If I ever run for president, I'm just going to do a laser show for my portion of the debate. And some club dancing.
If you get any questions about tax, just do this:
53 | Lidane Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:38:37pm |
re: #49 engineer cat
why don't presidential campaigns include swimsuit competitions?
Do you honestly want to see someone like Chris Christie in a bathing suit?
54 | wrenchwench Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:39:12pm |
Maybe this is why the news about the border patrol shooting has been kind of muted.
AP Source: Possible Friendly Fire in Shootings
A law enforcement official says the FBI is investigating the possibility that the fatal shooting of a U.S. border patrol agent and the wounding of another was a case of friendly fire.
The official says the probe is looking into whether the two men exchanged gunfire Tuesday in the mistaken belief that each was being fired on by a hostile gunman. The shooting occurred near Bisbee, Ariz.
[...]
55 | BongCrodny Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:42:19pm |
re: #53 Lidane
Do you honestly want to see someone like Chris Christie in a bathing suit?
Since it would likely end any chance Christie has of becoming President, I can't say I'm completely opposed to the idea.
56 | bratwurst Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:45:33pm |
Brutal summer heat yields to seasonable temps, just as election looms. Is it real, or rigged data from pro-Obama Weather Service?— David Axelrod (@davidaxelrod) October 5, 2012
58 | SpaceJesus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:45:58pm |
re: #1 Charles Johnson
how the hell have i never seen that before. that's awesome
59 | researchok Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:46:49pm |
re: #57 Aye Pod
Do you know about Greyfriars Bobby?
60 | Obdicut Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:50:21pm |
Naked guy running down the street holding a candy apple.
Wonder what that's about.
61 | researchok Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:51:19pm |
62 | Obdicut Fri, Oct 5, 2012 4:58:13pm |
63 | Lidane Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:00:15pm |
Sorry to go OT, but what the hell just happened in the Braves game? My Twitter and FB feeds are talking about Atlanta just getting royally fucked, complete with fans throwing stuff on the field.
Anyone want to enlighten me?
67 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:06:34pm |
New #Romney logo. #p2 #tlot #Obama #ObamaBiden2012 twitter.com/Gus_802/status...— Gus (@Gus_802) October 6, 2012
68 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:08:13pm |
Preview of President Barack Obama prepared for second debate. #p2 #tlot #Obama #ObamaBiden2012 twitter.com/Gus_802/status...— Gus (@Gus_802) October 5, 2012
69 | HappyWarrior Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:10:54pm |
re: #63 Lidane
Sorry to go OT, but what the hell just happened in the Braves game? My Twitter and FB feeds are talking about Atlanta just getting royally fucked, complete with fans throwing stuff on the field.
Anyone want to enlighten me?
Bungled use of the infield fly rule. This is crazy. Never have seen anything like this ever.
70 | Varek Raith Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:13:10pm |
71 | Varek Raith Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:14:59pm |
73 | bratwurst Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:16:35pm |
re: #69 HappyWarrior
Bungled use of the infield fly rule. This is crazy. Never have seen anything like this ever.
Totally bizarre...lifelong fan and I can't think of anything I have ever seen close to that weird.
My wife has informed me I'm not allowed to teach our kid the ancient baseball truth that "when you're going horseshit they fuck you."— Jason Fry (@jasoncfry) October 6, 2012
75 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:20:29pm |
76 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:21:04pm |
Just testing - OK, the mini-Image Library is now available in LGF Spy too.
77 | Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:24:10pm |
re: #71 Varek Raith
someone on my fb actually posted that "it's open season on Big Bird, who wants to go hunting this weekend".
SERIOUSLY! I was so stunned I didn't respond. I grew-up with Big Bird. One should not joke about hunting him.
78 | Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:25:47pm |
re: #53 Lidane
Do you honestly want to see someone like Chris Christie in a bathing suit?
That guy in Russia --yea maybe.
79 | Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:28:55pm |
re: #34 A Mom Anon
This is why too much inherited wealth is a bad idea. Seriously,if you've had it all handed to you it's incredibly easy to think other people don't have what you do because they aren't as smart or they're lazy. It makes you an asshole of the highest order. The only wealthy people who aren't like that are ones who WANT to understand. Or the ones that had to work their asses off to get somewhere and know they didn't do it alone. Most likely they had older,wiser people around them when they were young who made sure they had at least some exposure to the real world.
My family isn't big on it either. Leave a little if you can, just because. It creates such a bruhaha if there is too much. Nasty shit happens. If I had a ton of money, I'd think about leaving a trust for education purposes only--for the generations until it is exhausted. Other than that, I'd give it to the charities of my choice.
Told my parents to spend every cent. I don't want one piece of mail I don't absolutely have to get. Not one phone call. I just want there to be enough for my Mom to live comfortably and safely.
80 | Killgore Trout Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:29:51pm |
Pro tip: If you want to grow straight carrots don't water them. I'm pretty sure the irrigation causes branching of the root. Mine haven't seen water since late June. They're very drought tolerant.
81 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:33:14pm |
re: #77 ggt
someone on my fb actually posted that "it's open season on Big Bird, who wants to go hunting this weekend".
SERIOUSLY! I was so stunned I didn't respond. I grew-up with Big Bird. One should not joke about hunting him.
Mrs. Bush's Remarks at the Sesame Workshop Fifth Annual Benefit Dinner
Cipriani 42nd Street
New York, New York
...JENNA: And the whole world knows her as a global advocate for education -- from her support to Afghan teachers, or to her effort to rebuild the Gulf Coast school libraries, and to her path as a teacher and a librarian, and also to her work with other first ladies to make sure that every child in every country can learn to read.
BARBARA: We're so proud of our mom, and we can't think of anyone better to receive this year's Sesame Workshop honors. Ladies and gentlemen, our country's First Lady, and Jenna's and my favorite reading partner, teacher, friend and mom -- Laura Bush. (Applause.)
MRS. BUSH: Thank you all. Thank you very much for the very warm welcome. And thank you, Barbara and Jenna, for your introduction. When Barbara and Jenna were little girls, we loved to watch Sesame Street. Big Bird, Oscar and the rest of the gang will always have a special place in our hearts as they do in the hearts of families across our country and around the world.
I'm pleased to be here with this evening's host, Matt Lauer, and everyone's favorite red furry monster. Elmo first appeared on Sesame Street in 1984, yet Elmo still doesn't look a day over three and a half. (Laughter.) Elmo and I have been through a lot together, as you can tell from the video. We've chatted with world-class authors, and we've met with royalty. We appeared together on Sesame Street where Elmo and I taught children the sound of the letter "W." I thought they gave me a very appropriate letter. (Laughter.)...
82 | darthstar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:37:32pm |
7.8% motherfuckers!
Yes, it's still too high, but the 8% talking point is dead for this election cycle. Now that's not to say one couldn't start using 7% as the new 8%, but it's a little late in the game to shake that board and start over.
83 | darthstar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:39:26pm |
@mittromney has a 7.8% chance of getting a decent bounce out of the first debate.Did I say 7.8%?Why, I did! #p2 #forward2012 #tlot— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) October 6, 2012
84 | blueraven Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:40:54pm |
re: #81 Gus
Mrs. Bush's Remarks at the Sesame Workshop Fifth Annual Benefit Dinner
Cipriani 42nd Street
New York, New York
You know the whole Big Bird thing is funny. He has become the symbol of the ridiculous way in which republicans look at the deficit. Our tax dollars to PBS is negligible, yet year after year they still go after them.
On the other hand Romney wants 2T more for defense.
Then again, maybe we need it for the upcoming Muppet wars.
85 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:43:25pm |
re: #84 blueraven
You know the whole Big Bird thing is funny. He has become the symbol of the ridiculous way in which republicans look at the deficit. Our tax dollars to PBS is negligible, yet year after year they still go after them.
On the other hand Romney wants 2T more for defense.Then again, maybe we need it for the upcoming Muppet wars.
87 | wrenchwench Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:45:28pm |
Image: 506f3ed0500a6.preview-620.jpg
Border Patrol Agent Nicholas J. Ivie was killed by friendly fire, federal investigators confirmed today.
“While it is important to emphasize that the FBI’s investigation is actively continuing, there are strong preliminary indications that the death of United States Border Patrol Agent Nicholas J. Ivie and the injury to a second agent was the result of an accidental shooting incident involving only the agents,” the FBI said in a short news statement released Friday afternoon.
[...]
Charles Grassley can get bent.
“There’s no way to know at this point how the agent was killed, but because of Operation Fast and Furious, we’ll wonder for years if the guns used in any killing along the border were part of an ill-advised gun-walking strategy sanctioned by the federal government,” said Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), who started the investigation into the botched gun-trafficking investigation.
88 | darthstar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:47:54pm |
Dear Mitt Romney,
Find something else to cut off.
Image: o-ROMNEY-BIG-BIRD-570.jpg
Romney PWNED by an eight year old...from Alabama.
89 | bratwurst Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:49:36pm |
I wonder if @mlb will auction off the "game used garbage" from Chipper's last game...— Eric Stangel (@EricStangel) October 6, 2012
91 | Ghost of Tom Joad Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:54:17pm |
re: #87 wrenchwench
we’ll wonder for years if the guns used in any killing along the border were part of an ill-advised gun-walking strategy sanctioned by the federal government
Translation: This has got to be Holder's, and by proxy, Obama's fault!
92 | BongCrodny Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:56:45pm |
re: #80 Killgore Trout
Pro tip: If you want to grow straight carrots don't water them. I'm pretty sure the irrigation causes branching of the root. Mine haven't seen water since late June. They're very drought tolerant.
What have you got against gay carrots?
93 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 5:58:00pm |
re: #87 wrenchwench
Image: 506f3ed0500a6.preview-620.jpg
Charles Grassley can get bent.
Grassley sees people's lives as political tools.
94 | jaunte Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:00:07pm |
re: #87 wrenchwench
Chuck Grassley's middle-class voting record:
2003 C
2004 F
2005 F
2006 F
2007 F
2008 F
[Link: www.themiddleclass.org...]
95 | Barflytom Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:00:56pm |
re: #48 Sheeplord
If I ever run for president, I'm just going to do a laser show for my portion of the debate. And some club dancing.
re: #49 engineer cat
why don't presidential campaigns include swimsuit competitions?
To change the subject slightly, you two are the authors of the two stupidest comments I can ever remember seeing from educated people.
No, not the swimsuit / laser show remarks.
I was trying to point out a couple of days ago that the government can't continue to borrow at near zero interest rates indefinitely. Mr Obsheepdicutlord seems to believe that the government can "set its own interest rates" because treasury bonds / bills offer a fixed interest rate that is stated when the debt instrument is issued.
New debt is sold at auction; the market determines what investors will pay for, say, 10 year bonds or 3 month bills. They usually sell at close to face value / 100 because interest rates are set to reflect market conditions. For now, rates are held artificially low by the Federal Reserve "buying" treasuries, in other words by printing money, which is what QE1, 2 and 3 amount to, whatever fancy name you want to give it.
Look at what the PIIGS pay to borrow money - it should be obvious to you that governments can't pick whatever interest rate they feel like paying. Compare Spanish and German bond yields for example.
The point about the level of Federal debt isn't that the principal might be called in for repayment tomorrow, as Mr Engineermixedspeciespet seems to think I believe. The issue is the ability of the government to keep issuing new debt at what are really negative real interest rates.
When a bond matures, it has to be paid back either from cash or new borrowing. A large part of the Federal debt is in short term borrowing, which has to be repaid periodically and then replaced with new bond issues. Since the aggregate amount of debt isn't likely to be getting paid down anytime soon, new borrowing is the only option.
Someday, the market won't be willing to buy 10 year treasuries paying 1.6%. If confidence is lost in the governments ability to service its debt, then things get very unpleasant very quickly. I would suggest that that's already starting, since far more new debt issue is going to the Fed rather than to real investors.
Short term government debt is basically getting a new credit card every month to pay off the last one. You can get 0% balance transfer on a new card when your score is 800. If you lose your job and miss payments, you'll pay 30%, if you can get a card at all. That's when you'll wish you owed $5,000 instead of $50,000. The total amount of debt does matter, as you'll soon find out.
Blathering on about the current relatively low cost of debt service is missing the point. The prospect of future costs is the issue.
96 | Barflytom Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:01:38pm |
re: #48 Sheeplord
If I ever run for president, I'm just going to do a laser show for my portion of the debate. And some club dancing.
re: #49 engineer cat
why don't presidential campaigns include swimsuit competitions?
Last topic; a rather old comment from Improbablemixedspeciesguy has stuck in my mind for the astonishing level of stupidity it displayed. You said, in regard to social security, something like "the surplus is invested in treasury bonds that offer a guaranteed profit". Perhaps you were just being careless with the terms you used, but no-one refers to interest on a bond as "profit", especially if it is just one part of the government paying interest to another part.
The surplus, meaning receipts from payroll taxes exceeding payouts to SS recipients, gets spent as soon as it arrives in the government coffers. The government then issues IOUs (bonds) to the trust fund. Those IOUs are simply claims on future payments from taxpayers. In other words, there isn't a single dime in the "Trust Fund", unless a future government continues to collect taxes to repay the IOUs.
And yes, I know I'm simplifying, but you lefties seem to think that some clever policy can overcome financial reality.
I'm off for a beer. I might read your responses, if you bother, when I get back.
97 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:04:37pm |
Massive troll counter-attack. Well played.
98 | William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:05:14pm |
re: #95 Barflytom
Please don't feed the Troll. Let him get bored and go to where ever sad bored trolls go.
100 | jamesfirecat Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:17:24pm |
re: #96 Barflytom
re: #49 engineer cat
Last topic; a rather old comment from Improbablemixedspeciesguy has stuck in my mind for the astonishing level of stupidity it displayed. You said, in regard to social security, something like "the surplus is invested in treasury bonds that offer a guaranteed profit". Perhaps you were just being careless with the terms you used, but no-one refers to interest on a bond as "profit", especially if it is just one part of the government paying interest to another part.
The surplus, meaning receipts from payroll taxes exceeding payouts to SS recipients, gets spent as soon as it arrives in the government coffers. The government then issues IOUs (bonds) to the trust fund. Those IOUs are simply claims on future payments from taxpayers. In other words, there isn't a single dime in the "Trust Fund", unless a future government continues to collect taxes to repay the IOUs.
And yes, I know I'm simplifying, but you lefties seem to think that some clever policy can overcome financial reality.
I'm off for a beer. I might read your responses, if you bother, when I get back.
So in other words the bonds will turn a profit... so long as the United States remains a viable nation which collects taxes from its citizens.
Something tells me if those bonds are not turning a profit then we will have bigger issues to worry about than how to pay for social security....
101 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:20:27pm |
104 | wrenchwench Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:37:19pm |
Image: W7gUYsEgGEKvAUAuWIrepw2.jpg
Later, lizards.
105 | ozbloke Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:38:41pm |
re: #95 Barflytom
re: #49 engineer cat
To change the subject slightly, you two are the authors of the two stupidest comments I can ever remember seeing from educated people.
No, not the swimsuit / laser show remarks.I was trying to point out a couple of days ago that the government can't continue to borrow at near zero interest rates indefinitely. Mr Obsheepdicutlord seems to believe that the government can "set its own interest rates" because treasury bonds / bills offer a fixed interest rate that is stated when the debt instrument is issued.
New debt is sold at auction; the market determines what investors will pay for, say, 10 year bonds or 3 month bills. They usually sell at close to face value / 100 because interest rates are set to reflect market conditions. For now, rates are held artificially low by the Federal Reserve "buying" treasuries, in other words by printing money, which is what QE1, 2 and 3 amount to, whatever fancy name you want to give it.
Look at what the PIIGS pay to borrow money - it should be obvious to you that governments can't pick whatever interest rate they feel like paying. Compare Spanish and German bond yields for example.
The point about the level of Federal debt isn't that the principal might be called in for repayment tomorrow, as Mr Engineermixedspeciespet seems to think I believe. The issue is the ability of the government to keep issuing new debt at what are really negative real interest rates.
When a bond matures, it has to be paid back either from cash or new borrowing. A large part of the Federal debt is in short term borrowing, which has to be repaid periodically and then replaced with new bond issues. Since the aggregate amount of debt isn't likely to be getting paid down anytime soon, new borrowing is the only option.
Someday, the market won't be willing to buy 10 year treasuries paying 1.6%. If confidence is lost in the governments ability to service its debt, then things get very unpleasant very quickly. I would suggest that that's already starting, since far more new debt issue is going to the Fed rather than to real investors.
Short term government debt is basically getting a new credit card every month to pay off the last one. You can get 0% balance transfer on a new card when your score is 800. If you lose your job and miss payments, you'll pay 30%, if you can get a card at all. That's when you'll wish you owed $5,000 instead of $50,000. The total amount of debt does matter, as you'll soon find out.
Blathering on about the current relatively low cost of debt service is missing the point. The prospect of future costs is the issue.
Oh ok, so you won't be supporting Schmitt Romney then.
106 | Majacita Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:43:19pm |
I think I am actually going to fight to save Big Bird. I signed up tonight for the Million Muppet March and we're buying train tickets to DC and booking hotel rooms. If only a dozen people show up, at least I'll get to the Mall and see some museums. I am getting tired of my participation in this election limited to lurking on this blog and arguing with co-workers. Am I crazy?
107 | darthstar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:43:55pm |
Garfield minus Garfield. Pretty funny, actually.
[Link: garfieldminusgarfield.net...]
108 | William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:47:34pm |
re: #106 Majacita
I think I am actually going to fight to save Big Bird. I signed up tonight for the Million Muppet March and we're buying train tickets to DC and booking hotel rooms. If only a dozen people show up, at least I'll get to the Mall and see some museums. I am getting tired of my participation in this election limited to lurking on this blog and arguing with co-workers. Am I crazy?
Yeah, but good crazy! I wish I could go myself for that.
109 | darthstar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:48:14pm |
Box Of Old Playboys Found, Good Ones Too onion.com/VFdsXW— The Onion (@TheOnion) October 6, 2012
110 | palomino Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:51:38pm |
re: #95 Barflytom
Funny thing is that you spend time posting such long comments which most people here won't bother to read because you've already exposed yourself as an intellectually dishonest reactionary. Troll is too nice a word for you. I prefer deranged revanchist, but it's a matter or personal preference.
111 | engineer cat Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:53:33pm |
112 | R.M, Ramallo Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:54:18pm |
O/T
I'm watching this bio on Bruce Lee.
OMG!
Dude was a Jedi.
Ok. I'm done.
113 | darthstar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:54:57pm |
Bill Maher coming up in a few minutes. Should be a good one...post first debate (expect him to repeat his tweet about Obama needing a teleprompter)...but with Romney's 'fire Big Bird' taking up most of the media attention, and Republicans acting like utter assholes since Wednesday, he should have a prettywell balanced rant.
115 | Dancing along the light of day Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:55:55pm |
re: #98 William Barnett-Lewis
Please don't feed the Troll. Let him get bored and go to where ever sad bored trolls go.
Under cold ugly bridges!
116 | William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:56:01pm |
re: #112 Reverend Mother Ramallo
O/T
I'm watching this bio on Bruce Lee.
OMG!
Dude was a Jedi.
Ok. I'm done.
And he whooped on Chuck Norris! Hoo-ah!
117 | darthstar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:56:28pm |
118 | Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Oct 5, 2012 6:56:53pm |
re: #106 Majacita
I think I am actually going to fight to save Big Bird. I signed up tonight for the Million Muppet March and we're buying train tickets to DC and booking hotel rooms. If only a dozen people show up, at least I'll get to the Mall and see some museums. I am getting tired of my participation in this election limited to lurking on this blog and arguing with co-workers. Am I crazy?
We'll work from the bottom up.
No, you are not crazy.
There is no shame in lurking. I have learned a lot of things from just sitting back and letting others carry on the conversation. Sometimes I add my own two cents worth. Sometimes they meet the approval of the Community. Other times, I get my ass handed back to me because of a foolish comment/belief. Live and learn.
Finally, at least the trip will not be a total waste as you will be able to see/visit some cool places. Wish I was so lucky.
119 | darthstar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:00:27pm |
re: #116 William Barnett-Lewis
And he whooped on Chuck Norris! Hoo-ah!
Chuck Norris's greatest skill was mastering English as a second language.
120 | engineer cat Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:03:23pm |
re: #117 darthstar
Nobody takes the mantle of 'Barfly' if they're very smart.
i explained to him the other night why those long, portentous web videos designed to sell gold, by leveraging hating democrats and predicting that borrowing will cause money to become worthless "within the next six months" are feeding him bullshit, but wingnuts universally refuse to realize when they've lost an argument, and will return with ever more irrelevant and suppositious replies
Someday, the market won't be willing to buy
in the end it all boils down to logic like the above: growl you may be right now, you annoyingly smug liberal growl growl, but i win the argument because i can predict the future and then you'll see
121 | palomino Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:07:21pm |
OK, the short term problem is that a douchebag like Romney, from a now extremist Republican Party, may win the election...in part because he's a superior liar and in part because he's willing to cross the race card Rubicon and have his surrogates whip up racial hysteria that McCain avoided.
But the longer term problem is the alternate realities we now live in. Polls mean nothing because they were performed by the "wrong" people (even Fox News polls are questioned by the Right). Scientific data (on everything from global warming to women's reproductive systems "shutting things down") means nothing because it doesn't fit a pre-existing ideological bent. In short, we no longer have any consensus on basic empiricism or legitimate sources of information.
And now we've created a situtation where neither side will accept the eventual winner as the "real" president because of voter fraud or suppression, existent or not.
This doesn't mean that we will fall, a la Rome, anytime soon. But I would contend that the rejection of material reality we are now witnessing is an alarming sign of a society in decay. Pragmatic solutions, even basic compromise, become nearly impossible in such an environment.
122 | engineer cat Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:08:07pm |
re: #96 Barflytom
as for this rant, i urge you to contact the trustees of the social security fund and explain your theory of why they are morons to them personally instead of using us as intermediaries
123 | Amory Blaine Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:09:39pm |
re: #121 palomino
At the same time our economic rivals are doing the opposite.
124 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:23:13pm |
Just turned on the Bill Maher show and was reminded why I never watch the Bill Maher show.
Mark Foley? Really?
125 | palomino Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:24:37pm |
re: #123 Amory Blaine
At the same time our economic rivals are doing the opposite.
Absolutely, just looked at one of the Pages articles reporting on the Australian govt. (hardly a hotbed of radicalism) which has now instituted a carbon tax (a TAX, OMG!) due to the anticipated further impacts of AGW. Government there worked the way it's supposed to: compromise leading to pragmatic solutions.
I fear that the US is now too big, diverse and changing too rapidly for us to make the obvious practical compromises that were still possible just 15 years ago, when we last had a balanced budget.
126 | Amory Blaine Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:27:22pm |
re: #124 Charles Johnson
His guest list has been lackluster for at least 2 years. For me anyways.
127 | palomino Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:30:07pm |
re: #124 Charles Johnson
Just turned on the Bill Maher show and was reminded why I never watch the Bill Maher show.
Mark Foley? Really?
Sometimes he has a good slate of guests...and then there are nights like this where, out of 5 people, Mark Foley is the best known of the group. At least Bill McKibben will also be on to speak a little bit of sanity on environmental/energy issues.
128 | Obdicut Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:32:06pm |
Saying that the market sets the price for bonds and therefore the government can't charge what they want for them makes about as much sense as saying that the five-and-dime doesn't set its prices, the market does.
129 | Amory Blaine Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:35:32pm |
Local restaurant family getting death threats after flap over 'Romney visit'
DENVER - The owners of a popular Mexican restaurant in northwest Denver say they've been getting death threats, hate calls and fake orders from people who erroneously believe they refused to serve Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.
"One person who called said 'Watch your back. We know where you live and we're going after you,' " said Oscar Aguirre.
He said many callers believe Rosa Linda refused to serve Romney because of a story in Westword that said Romney "wasn't invited" to eat at the restaurant.
"That's not true," he said. "We just didn't want our business used as a campaign stop."
131 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:37:57pm |
Holy Christ, why is he in a 14 year-old's bedroom?
132 | Dancing along the light of day Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:38:14pm |
133 | b_sharp Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:39:40pm |
The only way to choose the lesser of two evils is to try them both.
134 | Lidane Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:44:08pm |
Hahahaha:
If Mitt Romney had let his sons watch me and the gang when they were growing up he might not have raised five liars— Skid Row Big Bird (@SkidRowBigBird) October 4, 2012
135 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:50:31pm |
Hmm, I think this needs to be installed on the RNC computers by Nov. 7.
138 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:54:37pm |
139 | Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:55:33pm |
re: #134 Lidane
/// Which is probably why him and Ann kept them from watching. Can't have something so plebeian as integrity and honesty interfering with the development of future vulture capitalist, now can we?
141 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:56:32pm |
142 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:56:37pm |
re: #124 Charles Johnson
Just turned on the Bill Maher show and was reminded why I never watch the Bill Maher show.
Mark Foley? Really?
For me, Bill Maher is a lot like Michael Moore. I can't stand either one of them personally. They both tend to discredit any viewpoint or cause they associate themselves with, by means of a sort of reverse osmosis. Maher by being an Olympic-class prick (and the whole anti-vax thing), and Moore because of his incessant (and often inexplicable) dishonesty. Through good old-fashioned guilt by association, they make me look and feel like a complete dipshit for sharing similar opinions about certain things with them. What's most infuriating about both of them is that on occasion they both manage to make a really solid, factually accurate, rational POINT about something, and I want to share it with other people but I CAN'T, because they spend the other 80% of their time earning a reputation for being full of shit.
144 | moderatelyradicalliberal Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:57:15pm |
145 | Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:57:20pm |
146 | jaunte Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:58:34pm |
re: #134 Lidane
Hahahaha:
[Embedded content]
Big Bird lives in a nest, Oscar lives in a garbage can, the Count von Count is a math teacher, and Bert and Ernie... they really aren't the right sort.
147 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Oct 5, 2012 7:59:04pm |
re: #144 moderatelyradicalliberal
There were too many people without souls on the show.
Without souls, or without soul?
148 | b_sharp Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:00:39pm |
re: #145 Bubblehead II
So are the rest of us 47%ers
It's not the money. I bounce emotionally but I've been at the bottom for a while. Bitching about it sometimes helps, so I'm bitching about it - again. It gets tiring.
149 | Obdicut Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:05:42pm |
re: #148 reflections of a raging redneck
It's not the money. I bounce emotionally but I've been at the bottom for a while. Bitching about it sometimes helps, so I'm bitching about it - again. It gets tiring.
I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.
Vonnegut
150 | moderatelyradicalliberal Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:06:16pm |
re: #147 Our Precious Bodily Fluids
Without souls, or without soul?
[Embedded content]
LOL at the white shoes! David Allen Greer a comedic genius and under appreciated. I always thought he was the funniest person on In Living Color.
Here he is having too much soul.
151 | Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:06:37pm |
I can understand that. Bitch away.
152 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:07:02pm |
re: #134 Lidane
Hahahaha:
[Embedded content]
Most sons lie to their fathers at some point growing up. Wise fathers catch the lie and punish the son appropriately, while making sure they understand why honestly is important. Wise sons take that lesson in honesty and learn not to lie. But it is the job of parents to teach such matters to children, not TV shows. Good shows may reinforce the lesson, but the primary role should always be the parents'.
155 | dragonath Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:08:56pm |
re: #121 palomino
Besides the whole Janissary thing, the Ottoman Empire makes a good example of what can happen to an empire that starts to go into a downwards spiral. Grinding poverty, massive extravagance, and corruption in a country that once held a upper hand in Europe.
156 | BongCrodny Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:09:33pm |
re: #148 reflections of a raging redneck
It's not the money. I bounce emotionally but I've been at the bottom for a while. Bitching about it sometimes helps, so I'm bitching about it - again. It gets tiring.
Pushing three years now without a job with benefits for me.
You are not alone.
157 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:09:37pm |
@skidrowbigbird Stop worrying, you'll have a job.If not with Disney, then with Nickelodeon.
— Kurt Akemann (@Dark_Falcon7) October 6, 2012
158 | b_sharp Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:10:06pm |
re: #154 Sheeplord
Most fathers lie to their sons, too.
Strangely, it appears the more intelligent the kid the more the kid lies.
159 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:10:38pm |
160 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:11:49pm |
re: #157 Dark_Falcon
[Embedded content]
Disney and Nickelodeon are not going to get into pre-school instructional television provided for free to poor or middle class families 5 days a week?
161 | b_sharp Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:12:09pm |
re: #156 BongCrodny
Pushing three years now without a job with benefits for me.
You are not alone.
You have a reason to be down, I just have brain chemistry.
162 | Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:12:47pm |
Time to call it a night Lizards. As always, May the Deity of Your Choice Smile Down Upon You.
As for you Lurkers, Come out, Come Out where ever you are.
163 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:12:49pm |
re: #152 Dark_Falcon
Most sons lie to their fathers at some point growing up. Wise fathers catch the lie and punish the son appropriately, while making sure they understand why honestly is important. Wise sons take that lesson in honesty and learn not to lie. But it is the job of parents to teach such matters to children, not TV shows. Good shows may reinforce the lesson, but the primary role should always be the parents'.
Also, parents shouldn't set kids up.
Child is standing there with chocolate and crumbs on their mouth; you don't ask them if they stole a cookie. Just deal with the fact that little kids have poor impulse control, especially where sweets are concerned.
164 | dragonath Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:13:17pm |
165 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:14:09pm |
re: #154 Sheeplord
Most fathers lie to their sons, too.
What type of lie? This is an important question.
Yes, my father's stories get better and better every year. (Same stories, too.)
This isn't the same as some types of lies. It's just an old man telling fish tales.
167 | Lidane Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:15:58pm |
My right wing friends can't decide whether Big Bird is part of 47% moocher class or business Titan sucking down corporate welfare.— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) October 6, 2012
168 | dragonath Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:16:06pm |
Are all fishermen liars or do all the liars fish?
169 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:17:00pm |
re: #163 Mostly sane, most of the time.
Also, parents shouldn't set kids up.
Child is standing there with chocolate and crumbs on their mouth; you don't ask them if they stole a cookie. Just deal with the fact that little kids have poor impulse control, especially where sweets are concerned.
Still important to explain to them that they were wrong, and impose a minor punishment. The key, it would seem to me, is not to yell or act in a disproportionate manner. But that's just my opinion, and I'm likely wrong.
170 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:17:06pm |
171 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:18:05pm |
re: #159 Dark_Falcon
I know. But I felt it ought to be said.
Why? All you did was illustrate that on top of lying his ass off himself Romney also did a shit job of basic parenting in failing to impress the importance of honesty on his own sons.
172 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:18:29pm |
re: #169 Dark_Falcon
Still important to explain to them that they were wrong, and impose a minor punishment. The key, it would seem to me, is not to yell or act in a disproportionate manner. But that's just my opinion, and I'm likely wrong.
Again with the correct impulses DF. Really, you'd make a good father.
Yes, you just dish out the discipline. Also, put the cookies up.
That way they can learn to climb, too.
173 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:19:11pm |
re: #170 freetoken
We always knew the Bushes weren't True Conservatives.
Left leaning conservatives. Well, according to TPGOP it is. Completely getting rid of PBS is a stupid idea. You'll encounter great resistance and rightfully so. That does not mean you can't compromise and cut some of their funding. What you want to do is be fair all across the board.
174 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:20:14pm |
Uh oh. Someone didn't like "Laura Bush and Big Bird." I'm guessing that was a mistake.
175 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:21:41pm |
re: #174 Gus
Uh oh. Someone didn't like "Laura Bush and Big Bird." I'm guessing that was a mistake.
That's because Big bird is yellow, and obviously a chicken.
176 | blueraven Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:21:54pm |
re: #174 Gus
Uh oh. Someone didn't like "Laura Bush and Big Bird." I'm guessing that was a mistake.
Yikes!
177 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:23:30pm |
re: #171 goddamnedfrank
Why? All you did was illustrate that on top of lying his ass off himself Romney also did a shit job of basic parenting in failing to impress the importance of honesty on his own sons.
You're wrong, Frank. That Mitt's sons lied to him when they were children is to be expected. He didn't talk about how he taught them not to do that, because that would not have been relevant to the question. But it does not therefore suggest that he failed to teach his sons the importance of honesty. You have let your anger cause you to jump to a conclusion.
180 | Only The Lurker Knows Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:24:42pm |
181 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:24:50pm |
re: #155 dragonath
Besides the whole Janissary thing, the Ottoman Empire makes a good example of what can happen to an empire that starts to go into a downwards spiral. Grinding poverty, massive extravagance, and corruption in a country that once held an upper hand in Europe.
I doubt it is merely coincidental that wherever the Ottoman Empire ruled at its height (early 16th century) is today backwards or otherwise less than impressive.
182 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:25:16pm |
re: #180 Bubblehead II
Misdings suck. :-)
Now I am really out of here. Night Lizards.
May the deity of your choice shine upon you!
183 | blueraven Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:26:33pm |
re: #177 Dark_Falcon
You're wrong, Frank. That Mitt's sons lied to him when they were children is to be expected. He didn't talk about how he taught them not to do that, because that would not have been relevant to the question. But it does not therefore suggest that he failed to teach his sons the importance of honesty. You have let your anger cause you to jump to a conclusion.
Maybe he did teach his children, but he is not a good example of someone who does not lie.
184 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:26:40pm |
Rise & Fall of the Third Reich (2010)
Hulu. Disturbing even though I grew up with a lot this imagery since I was a kid. By way of PBS.
187 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:29:44pm |
re: #177 Dark_Falcon
You're wrong, Frank.
No, you are. Mitt is a lying piece of trash, but you don't care because he's your candidate and you have no real principles or sense of personal integrity.
That Mitt's sons lied to him when they were children is to be expected. He didn't talk about how he taught them not to do that, because that would not have been relevant to the question. But it does not therefore suggest that he failed to teach his sons the importance of honesty.
Both his and their behavior during this campaign does that. They're all adults now, who've chosen to lie. This somehow conforms to your idea of what leadership entails, and that's pathetic.
You have let your anger cause you to jump to a conclusion.
No, again his and their history of lying for personal gain does that. That you choose to keep making excuses for it speaks volumes.
191 | Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:32:19pm |
193 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:34:32pm |
re: #177 Dark_Falcon
You're wrong, Frank. That Mitt's sons lied to him when they were children is to be expected. He didn't talk about how he taught them not to do that, because that would not have been relevant to the question. But it does not therefore suggest that he failed to teach his sons the importance of honesty. You have let your anger cause you to jump to a conclusion.
What it does illustrate is that Mitt Romney had no hesitation to use his own sons as examples of lying, in order to smear President Obama.
195 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:36:01pm |
re: #193 Charles Johnson
Also, I thought it was a demonstration of paternalism, as if he was calling Obama a boy (like his own 5).
196 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:37:08pm |
re: #195 freetoken
Also, I thought it was a demonstration of paternalism, as if he was calling Obama a boy (like his own 5).
Absolutely. He specifically used the word "BOYS" even though his sons are adult men.
That was not a random choice of words.
197 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:38:26pm |
I find it curious that anyone would defend that statement of Romney's. I thought it was incredibly crass, on more than one level.
198 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:38:39pm |
Okay, I'll be honest. I'm exhausted. They needed a fill-in for the later class, which was 6-7 year olds. They are exhausting, so I was going from 8-5 today--with kids. I've done a regular workday. Not the same as 8-5 working with kids. Day care workers don't get paid enough.
That's not my point, though. I just misread the header for the last article as Big Bangs are lies from the pit of hell, and I thought, "Well, maybe they were a bit much, especially the 80's ones that went straight up, but that's a bit harsh."
199 | dragonath Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:39:08pm |
re: #181 freetoken
I doubt it is merely coincidental that wherever the Ottoman Empire ruled at its height (early 16th century) is today backwards or otherwise less than impressive.
Being stuck between Tsarist Russia and Ottoman Rumelia wasn't exactly the best place in the world to be. Despite neglect under the Ottomans, I think a lot of the MIddle East would have been better off if the British and the French hadn't made such a hash with their post-WWI power games.
When Turkey isn't going and pissing off their neighbors, there is a streak of actual (if subdued) progressiveness in the country. The Tanzimat Constitution was surprisingly modern in some ways even though the Empire lapsed back into despotism soon after.
200 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:39:36pm |
re: #196 Charles Johnson
I suspect Romney is so deep into his own cultural paternalism (very, very strong in Mormonism) he isn't even aware of how over the top he can be.
Sort of like his offering a bet to Perry on stage, for 5000 dollars. Romney was clueless how in the face that really was, because in his day to day world it's not something that is a big deal.
201 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:40:10pm |
The PBS jab at Lehrer was just a technique to prepare himself for being a dick.
202 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:40:32pm |
re: #198 Mostly sane, most of the time.
Wait--make that 4-7. 6-7 is my soccer team.
203 | b_sharp Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:40:44pm |
re: #198 Mostly sane, most of the time.
Okay, I'll be honest. I'm exhausted. They needed a fill-in for the later class, which was 6-7 year olds. They are exhausting, so I was going from 8-5 today--with kids. I've done a regular workday. Not the same as 8-5 working with kids. Day care workers don't get paid enough.
That's not my point, though. I just misread the header for the last article as Big Bangs are lies from the pit of hell, and I thought, "Well, maybe they were a bit much, especially the 80's ones that went straight up, but that's a bit harsh."
Sounds like you had a hairy day.
205 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:42:19pm |
re: #195 freetoken
Also, I thought it was a demonstration of paternalism, as if he was calling Obama a boy (like his own 5).
I think you've heard too many 'dog whistles', and are right now hearing one that was never blown. Mitt's words had no such ulterior meaning.
206 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:42:44pm |
207 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:42:57pm |
re: #189 Gus
Watch this DF.
[Embedded content]
Of course when those Republican were saying that DF was with them, saying that Romney stood for nothing but his own ambition to be President. Everything they say, every argument they make has a very short half life, designed to serve the immediate expediency of the moment and then make way for whatever convenient thing needs to be said next.
208 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:44:06pm |
re: #207 goddamnedfrank
Of course when those Republican were saying that DF was with them, saying that Romney stood for nothing but his own ambition to be President. Everything they say, every argument they make has a very short half life, designed to serve the immediate expediency of the moment and then make way for whatever convenient thing needs to be said next.
Newt was pretty good on the Bain shit though. Very useful work.
209 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:44:20pm |
re: #203 reflections of a raging redneck
Sounds like you had a hairy day.
Actually, most of the kids were fine. It was the adults.
It's always the adults, you know.
I was passing rocks around and telling them to feel the rocks (soapstone and lava rock) and look at the rock (amethyst and citrine) but please don't lick the rock (halite) because every other kid has, so you'd be sharing spit with them.
That part was fun.
The drama with one of the teachers being mad at the board for not letting her attach an activity that would raise the price for a teen class from $75 to $275 was no fun.
210 | jaunte Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:45:36pm |
re: #207 goddamnedfrank
POLL: Romney now leads Obama by 96% among people who "enjoy being lied to" #smallsamplesize #resultsmaybeunstable
— The Daily Edge (@TheDailyEdge) October 6, 2012
211 | allegro Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:47:05pm |
re: #205 Dark_Falcon
I think you've heard too many 'dog whistles', and are right now hearing one that was never blown. Mitt's words had no such ulterior meaning.
Oh please. That was so obviously one of his well-practiced "zingers." There was nothing spontaneous about it - it was planned, practiced, and delivered as intended.
212 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:47:36pm |
I shall bury you with your internal enemies!
We should encourage jobs trutherism. ;)
213 | dragonath Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:47:42pm |
With a little bit of hindsight, did Romney really "win" that debate? Despite Obama being uninspired, Romney really stretched himself out with that PBS stuff. We'll be hearing about that one for a long time.
Even the "low-info" voter has PBS.
214 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:49:18pm |
re: #211 allegro
Oh please. That was so obviously one of his well-practiced "zingers." There was nothing spontaneous about it - it was planned, practiced, and delivered as intended.
That was not the point I was addressing.
215 | jaunte Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:49:26pm |
re: #213 dragonath
Has the Romney campaign come out yet to say he didn't really want to get rid of PBS?
216 | allegro Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:50:55pm |
re: #214 Dark_Falcon
That was not the point I was addressing.
Your point was that there was no dog whistle there. It was a HUGE dog whistle that was planned.
217 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:53:01pm |
re: #216 allegro
Your point was that there was no dog whistle there. It was a HUGE dog whistle that was planned.
It being planned does not make it a 'dog whistle'.
218 | dragonath Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:53:12pm |
Remember how Fox News took on the Muppets? And lost?
Romney took on Big Bird.
He's really transcending the debate.
219 | b_sharp Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:55:24pm |
The question is no longer "why did the chicken cross the road?", it has become "why did the Romney cross the chicken?".
220 | allegro Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:55:42pm |
re: #217 Dark_Falcon
It being planned does not make it a 'dog whistle'.
He used that planned line to infantalize the president and call him "boy," which is about as dog whistle as one can get when speaking to a black man. It was very directed and intentional.
221 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:57:05pm |
re: #220 allegro
He used that planned line to infantalize the president and call him "boy," which is about as dog whistle as one can get when speaking to a black man. It was very directed and intentional.
Believe what you want. I don't agree. Neither one of us will convince the other.
Result: Deadlock
222 | Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:57:20pm |
If a president decides to veto some expenditures, couldn't Congress over ride it?
223 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:58:00pm |
These "debates" really do need pictures - technologically it is trivial to set up a large display between the two gentlemen, give each a "clicker" to their own computers (being run by their own team.)
Better yet, give the moderator the clicker and let him/her query the candidates.
I'd put up this picture:
[Link: www.infomine.com...]
and ask the candidates to comment on how they will deal with its importance, if only for the deer-in-the-headlights looks.
224 | dragonath Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:58:15pm |
Hey, D_F, how do you feel about one of the Republicans of the Illinois Congressional Delegation being a creationist... and a member of the House Science Committee at that?
225 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:58:18pm |
re: #222 Cannadian Club Akbar
If a president decides to veto some expenditures, couldn't Congress over ride it?
If you have 2/3rds a vote.
226 | jaunte Fri, Oct 5, 2012 8:58:48pm |
re: #220 allegro
Deliberately insulting, and calculated to anger his opponent.
228 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:01:30pm |
re: #221 Dark_Falcon
Believe what you want. I don't agree. Neither one of us will convince the other.
Result: Deadlock
After everything that's gone on in this campaign, it's kind of amazing that you still think anyone's going to believe Mitt Romney's race-baiting comments are unintentional.
229 | Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:01:32pm |
re: #225 Gus
If you have 2/3rds a vote.
Thank you. Now, once again, I have to point out that a President isn't a King. There is no fucking way this will happen.
231 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:02:25pm |
re: #229 Cannadian Club Akbar
Thank you. Now, once again, I have to point out that a President isn't a King. There is no fucking way this will happen.
Never was. I stopped believing in magic when I was 8.
232 | Dark_Falcon Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:03:35pm |
re: #224 dragonath
Hey, D_F, how do you feel about one of the Republicans of the Illinois Congressional Delegation being a creationist... and a member of the House Science Committee at that?
Who is that?
233 | MittDoesNotCompute Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:03:55pm |
re: #220 allegro
He used that planned line to infantalize the president and call him "boy," which is about as dog whistle as one can get when speaking to a black man. It was very directed and intentional.
Even if Romney himself didn't intend for it to be a dog whistle, I have to believe that he knew it would come off, at the very least, very patronizing and very disrespectful. However, I wouldn't put it past any of his recycled advisers who helped him put together his talking points/"zingers" to encourage Romney to use that line, knowing full well the historical use of "boy" by racist whites against black men.
I don't care if it was a debate between political opponents, one just DOES NOT talk to the President of the United States like that.
234 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:04:49pm |
re: #217 Dark_Falcon
It being planned does not make it a 'dog whistle'.
Equating a black man to a child isn't very subtle. A pathological liar falsely accusing his opponent of lying is gaslighting, a form of abuse. Face it, your candidate, who you once admitted stands for nothing, is a greasy turd. It's too bad that you don't have the personal integrity to stand behind that earlier, totally honest assessment of the man.
235 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:08:28pm |
Close PBS because we need more (to sell) bullets and tear gas canisters in our social experiment in the Middle East.
236 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:10:03pm |
re: #235 Gus
Hmmm.... I wonder if one could fire muppets with that electromagnetic gun at Dahlgren.
237 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:11:07pm |
re: #236 freetoken
Hmmm.... I wonder if one could fire muppets with that electromagnetic gun at Dahlgren.
I'll get the colonels lined up in our squadron. Don't need it but I could sure use the money after retirement. Might become a lobbyist.
// // //
238 | Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:12:32pm |
re: #235 Gus
Close PBS because we need more (to sell) bullets and tear gas canisters in our social experiment in the Middle East.
Well!! We would have bullets if DHS and the FEMA camp operators didn't want to send us to reeduction camps!!
239 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:12:38pm |
re: #237 Gus
Seriously, all those wingnuts in Virginia who rant and rave at the government... when a significant portion of Virginia's economy is based around servicing government contracts and the military.
240 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:13:42pm |
re: #239 freetoken
Seriously, all those wingnuts in Virginia who rant and rave at the government... when a significant portion of Virginia's economy is based around servicing government contracts and the military.
Virginia. Navy. Marines. DC burbs.
241 | Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:15:07pm |
Alrighty. Outtie. I have the morning shift. :)
242 | Ghost of Tom Joad Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:15:32pm |
re: #214 Dark_Falcon
That was not the point I was addressing.
I have to agree here. Whoever wrote that zinger for him wanted to find a 'cutesy' way to get the old "something doesn't become true if you just keep repeating it" line into the debate. There's plenty of other things to call dog whistle on, I think trying to use it here is a little over-projection.
If you want something that's really a whistle, look at the birth certificate remark Mitt made in Michigan a few months back.
243 | MittDoesNotCompute Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:15:45pm |
re: #239 freetoken
Seriously, all those wingnuts in Virginia who rant and rave at the government... when a significant portion of Virginia's economy is based around servicing government contracts and the military.
re: #240 Gus
Virginia. Navy. Marines. DC burbs.
Take all of that out and you pretty much just have tourism and the Appalachians left.
244 | goddamnedfrank Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:16:44pm |
re: #235 Gus
Close PBS because we need more (to sell) bullets and tear gas canisters in our social experiment in the Middle East.
It could almost pay for two whole days for our fiscal year 2013 involvement in Afghanistan.
Comparative budgeting reality never really makes it into Republican priority calculations.
246 | freetoken Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:17:26pm |
re: #243 Gert Fröbe
Take all of that out and you pretty much just have tourism and the Appalachians left.
And a little bit of tobacky.
247 | Mocking Jay Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:18:48pm |
re: #244 goddamnedfrank
It could almost pay for two whole days for our fiscal year 2013 involvement in Afghanistan.
Comparative budgeting reality never really makes it into Republican priority calculations.
Hey, remember how they defunded that ACORN thing from way back...?
248 | Ghost of Tom Joad Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:20:04pm |
re: #245 Gus
Virginia is for lovers! Oh hell. Virginia is like the second capitol.
That's why it's called "hiking the Appalachian Trail."
Who was that? San...Stanford or something?
249 | MittDoesNotCompute Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:20:08pm |
re: #245 Gus
Virginia is for lovers! Oh hell. Virginia is like the second capitol.
re: #246 freetoken
And a little bit of tobacky.
It might have been an exaggeration, but I agree that Virginia depends mightily on the federal government (and the jobs, public and private sector, and investment that entails).
250 | MittDoesNotCompute Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:21:20pm |
re: #248 Ghost of Tom Joad
That's why it's called "hiking the Appalachian Trail."
Who was that? San...Stanford or something?
Mark Sanford, former governor of SC
From June 18 until June 24, 2009, the whereabouts of Sanford were unknown to the public, as well as to his wife and the State Law Enforcement Division, which provides security for him, garnering nationwide news coverage. Lieutenant Governor André Bauer announced that he could not "take lightly that his staff has not had communication with him for more than four days, and that no one, including his own family, knows his whereabouts."[37]
Before his disappearance, Sanford told his staff that he would be hiking on the Appalachian Trail and while he was gone he did not answer 15 cell phone calls from his chief of staff Scott English; he also failed to call his family on Father's Day.[38]Several hours after reporter Gina Smith intercepted Sanford arriving at Atlanta's airport after flying back from Argentina, and upon learning that incriminating evidence was being swiftly mobilized against him by the media, Sanford held a news conference, during which he admitted that he had been unfaithful to his wife.[39][40]
In emotional interviews with the Associated Press over two days, Sanford said he would die "knowing that I had met my soul mate."[41] Sanford also said that he "crossed the lines" with a handful of other women during 20 years of marriage, but not as far as he did with his mistress. "There were a handful of instances wherein I crossed the lines I shouldn't have crossed as a married man, but never crossed the ultimate line," he said.[41]
On June 25, La Nación, a Buenos Aires newspaper, identified the Argentine woman as María Belén Chapur, a 43-year-old divorced mother of two with a university degree in international relations who lives in the city of Buenos Aires and works as a commodity broker .[42] The State earlier had published details of e-mails between Sanford and a woman only identified as "Maria."[43] Sanford met Chapur at a dance in Uruguay in 2001 and admitted there was a more intimate relationship with her starting in 2008.[44]
Sanford's wife had become aware of her husband's infidelities around five months before the scandal broke, and the two had sought marriage counseling.[40] She said that she had requested a trial separation about two weeks before his disappearance.[45]
Sanford told reporters that months before his affair became public he had sought counsel at a controversial religious organization called The Family, of which he became a member when he was a Representative in Washington, D.C. from 1995 to 2001.[46]
251 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:21:22pm |
re: #226 jaunte
Deliberately insulting, and calculated to anger his opponent.
Yep, it was intended to get a rise out of Obama, like a lot of what Romney said. His strategy was to try to make Obama show anger, which would play into the "angry black man" image that the Republican Party is working overtime to promote.
The race-baiting subtext of comparing President Obama to Romney's "boys" was unmistakable.
252 | Gus Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:22:27pm |
re: #251 Charles Johnson
Yep, it was intended to get a rise out of Obama, like a lot of what Romney said. His strategy was to try to make Obama show anger, which would play into the "angry black man" image that the Republican Party is working overtime to promote.
The race-baiting subtext of comparing President Obama to Romney's "boys" was unmistakable.
He also did that with Lehrer.
253 | jaunte Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:22:27pm |
re: #251 Charles Johnson
If the communication was only "repeating something doesn't make it true," that can easily be said without all the other freight.
254 | Ghost of Tom Joad Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:23:33pm |
re: #250 Gert Fröbe
Danke. Couldn't remember exactly.
255 | Charles Johnson Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:25:44pm |
There's a reason why Romney's support among African-Americans is at ZERO, and that comparison of Obama to Romney's lying "boys" is a perfect example.
256 | Mocking Jay Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:26:20pm |
re: #251 Charles Johnson
Yep, it was intended to get a rise out of Obama, like a lot of what Romney said. His strategy was to try to make Obama show anger, which would play into the "angry black man" image that the Republican Party is working overtime to promote.
The race-baiting subtext of comparing President Obama to Romney's "boys" was unmistakable.
Completely mistakable for people with their heads in the sand.
257 | Mocking Jay Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:27:30pm |
re: #255 Charles Johnson
There's a reason why Romney's support among African-Americans is at ZERO, and that comparison of Obama to Romney's lying "boys" is a perfect example.
Nuh uh! They're just in it for the free Obama phones!
258 | gwangung Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:32:41pm |
re: #251 Charles Johnson
Yep, it was intended to get a rise out of Obama, like a lot of what Romney said. His strategy was to try to make Obama show anger, which would play into the "angry black man" image that the Republican Party is working overtime to promote.
The race-baiting subtext of comparing President Obama to Romney's "boys" was unmistakable.
Well, at least for those who've born the brunt of such insults.
If you've never had to, not so much. You're just not very sensitive to other people's feelings since you don't have to swallow insults, both subtle and overt.
259 | MittDoesNotCompute Fri, Oct 5, 2012 9:37:02pm |
re: #258 gwangung
Well, at least for those who've born the brunt of such insults.
If you've never had to, not so much. You're just not very sensitive to other people's feelings since you don't have to swallow insults, both subtle and overt.
That really should be qualified; people with empathy and a healthy sense of what's right and what wrong don't necessarily have to had experienced such insults themselves to know it's meant to be demeaning, demoralizing, humiliating, and is complete and utter bullshit.
261 | palomino Fri, Oct 5, 2012 11:55:48pm |
re: #229 Cannadian Club Akbar
Thank you. Now, once again, I have to point out that a President isn't a King. There is no fucking way this will happen.
So then somehow it doesn't matter what he says because he's really just being a craven liar pandering to the rabid views of a minority base, and the extreme legislation won't get passed?
Sorry, but a lot of people don't find that very comforting. Or logical.