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325 comments
1 ElCapitanAmerica  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 3:44:24pm

This highlights what a missed opportunity it was for the president not to call him out on that. Now I know it's hard to debate against made up lies, but is it too much to ask for the president to be a bit more prepared against this attack. His team should have anticipated a Solyndra mention.

2 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 3:48:33pm

re: #1 ElCapitanAmerica

Maybe, maybe not, but at this point, what is the value in continuing to harp on Obama's debate performance?

3 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 3:52:13pm

I wouldn't underestimate the damage Romney did to himself, though, by punching the truth in the face over and over and over.

Romney may have come off as more aggressive and confident during the debate, but he gave the Obama campaign a lot of good solid ammunition with all those lies.

4 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 3:56:24pm

Factcheck.org agrees: [Link: factcheck.org...]

5 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 3:57:52pm

Hopefully they'll find someone smarter than John Kerry to act as the Romney stand-in for debate prep this time.

6 ElCapitanAmerica  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 3:58:35pm

re: #2 Sheeplord

Maybe, maybe not, but at this point, what is the value in continuing to harp on Obama's debate performance?

Seems entirely on topic to suggest that the campaign needs to find a good way as humanly possible to fact check during the debate, not trying to "harp". These videos are great, just afraid they don't have the audience that the debates will have.

7 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 3:58:38pm

re: #5 funky chicken

Hopefully they'll find someone smarter than John Kerry to act as the Romney stand-in for debate prep this time.

8 bluecheese  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:00:56pm

but is this one of those just internet ads that only news junkies see online........

What are the ads that are going up on TV in the swing states?

9 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:01:15pm

While Obama's debate performance wasn't his best, I don't think anyone could argue that there is no value in letting Mitt run off at the mouth.

10 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:02:06pm

re: #7 Gus

Chuck Schumer's a better choice. Smart, arrogant, and cynical. LOL, and I like Schumer.

11 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:02:33pm

OT, but the Fucking Florida Gators beat #3 LSU.

Holy shit and yeeehaw.

12 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:03:44pm

I'm glad the focus is beginning to shift now to all of the lies Romney told in that short period of time. This puts him on the defensive and gives the campaign ad folks plenty to work with. The man told what? 28 lies in 37 minutes or something? That pretty much means the only things that weren't lies were words like"the". You gotta work pretty damned hard to lie that much in such a short time. Or,maybe it wasn't work for him,in which case,that's frightening.

13 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:04:51pm

Frank says:

The person who stands up and says, "This is stupid," either is asked to 'behave' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful "Yes, we know! Isn't it terrific!"

14 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:08:35pm

re: #11 Blackity Black Black!

Roll Tide! LOL, don't care a thing for the Gators or Tigers tho.

15 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:10:12pm

The ads serve as bullet points. They help to disassemble Mitt's word salad into bite sized portions.

In the debate, Mitt clearly stated his position. Now, it will be easier to pin him down. I think it's hard to adjust to a man who can lie at a mile per minute.

For the next debate can't use the old, 'that was taken out of context' line.
Time to come out swinging.
IMHO

16 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:11:43pm

Reporter Uncovers More Evidence Of Romney Lying

finds himself fired for submitting dog-bites-man stories

17 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:13:23pm

Obama has a record and stated policies that can be attacked. Romney has done his best to avoid saying anything specific about intended policies, which leaves almost nothing for Obama to attack. That enables Romney to be the aggressor and limits Obama to playing a defensive game, not the best position to take in a debate.

What Obama needed to do, and what may have been the intention was to turn the attacks from Romney into opportunities to reinforce in the minds of the viewers the benefits of Obama's policies. His presentation just didn't pull it off. I suspect Romney's lies were pissing Obama off and he was trying to control his responses through that frustration.

18 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:13:50pm
19 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:17:44pm

re: #18 Gus

It may have already occurred to you, but it would be great to put all of these together on an easy-to-share LGF Page :)

20 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:18:36pm

debate

nate 'the great' silver says nobody has ever come back from this far behind this late in the game, and the debate results remind me of kerry's 'win' against bush and especially ronald reagan acting senile in the first debate in 1984, but none of this is a guarantee of what will happen

it's inconceivable to me that we would be stuck with the ignorant and lying romney for president, especially since it would leave this country at the mercy of a republican house bent on destroying the country, but i find myself without faith in the american people to react sensibly

we can only wait to see what happens in the next 30 days...

21 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:19:16pm

re: #19 Interesting Times

It may have already occurred to you, but it would be great to put all of these together on an easy-to-share LGF Page :)

22 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:19:47pm

re: #21 Gus

[Embedded content]

Oops. Meant this. But that connects with it.

23 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:21:54pm

re: #20 engineer cat

it's inconceivable to me that we would be stuck with the ignorant and lying romney for president, especially since it would leave this country at the mercy of a republican house bent on destroying the country, but i find myself without faith in the american people to react sensibly

we can only wait to see what happens in the next 30 days...

Positive sign, perhaps?

24 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:24:10pm

re: #23 Interesting Times

The dreaded dead cat bounce.

25 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:26:02pm

If Obama can keep his numbers up in Ohio, I think he'll be alright.

26 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:26:25pm

I like to think that a lot of Americans, come Friday night, found themselves engaging in what TVTropes likes to dub "fridge logic." For those who haven't read, it's basically that stuff in a work of fiction that you accept due to suspension of disbelief, but when you walk to the fridge for a drink, you find yourself wondering "How does that work?" In this case, I like to think some folks found themselves impressed by Romney's "energetic" performance, but when they started breaking down what he actually said, couldn't get it to work in their heads. A Republican promising not to cut taxes? To actually keep taxes for the rich where they are?

27 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:27:12pm

re: #22 Gus

Crony2012!

28 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:28:32pm

re: #24 Charles Johnson

The dreaded dead cat bounce.

Don't tell that to the people at RealClearPolitics. They had to take 3 polls favoring Obama (+9, +7, +3) out of their polling average even though they fall within the dates they set, so they can show a closer race.

And that's not even considering the ridiculous Rasmussen poll. A 4% shift overnight, going from +2 Obama to +2 Romney.....in a 3 day tracking poll.

Yeah, that happens.

29 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:29:28pm

I'm still harping. I'll be back to normal....shortly....

30 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:30:28pm

re: #29 Blackity Black Black!

I'm still harping. I'll be back to normal....shortly....

[Embedded content]

What happened to Tim Tebow?

31 bratwurst  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:31:06pm

re: #30 reflections of a raging redneck

What happened to Tim Tebow?

He finally got too old for college football. :)

32 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:31:18pm
33 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:32:10pm

re: #30 reflections of a raging redneck

What happened to Tim Tebow?

He moved on.

34 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:32:22pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The science actually agrees with you.

35 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:32:53pm

re: #33 Blackity Black Black!

He moved on.

The Rapture?

36 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:34:17pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Does this also explain why Global Warming deniers claim that the scientists are in it for the money?

37 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:34:26pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Obama leading: "The polls are totally oversampling Democrats! They're totally bogus! I have no time for transparently bad polls!"

Romney leading: "SUCK IT, LIBERALS!"

38 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:34:35pm

i have to say the prospect of the current republican house being allowed to run rampant without restraint scare the living crap out of me

mitt has been campaigning as a right wing rubber stamp and that's exactly what i'd expect him to be as president

39 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:38:11pm

re: #35 reflections of a raging redneck

The Rapture?

Not yet. Dude is cool, when he played & went to UF, there was nary a mention about religion, cept for the eye black he wore. (that was when Reggie Bush was wearing 619 for San Diego)

The press picked up on it and made it a huge deal once he went pro and whatever. I love the athlete.

40 nines09  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:38:23pm

My two cents on the debate distills down to Romney just reinventing Romney as Romney and his camp have stated all along they will do. Most of America is woefully ignorant of the day to day details. All Obama had going for him was either a point by point rebuttal which would have just wasted his time, or a calm and quiet Mr President Of The United States Of America allowing a desperate and increasingly agitated Mitt Romney to spin his wheels ever deeper into the muck he and the GOP have laid out. To have Obama stand there and say "Liar" would have given more credence to the bullshit Mitt was telling the entire nation. No rebuttal and Mitt did what Mitt does best; Double Down. Next day the glow of a shiny new piece of bling to hang on ones ego was bright. 48 hours later the sheen is diminished and the finger turns green. Even the supporters of Mr Romney had to be asking themselves. What the fuck was that? Why that is called Video. With Audio. That was your Platform. Your Platform is based on lies. Now a few more people see it. IMHO. Screw Romney and Fuck Ryan.

41 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:38:51pm

re: #17 reflections of a raging redneck

Obama has a record and stated policies that can be attacked. Romney has done his best to avoid saying anything specific about intended policies, which leaves almost nothing for Obama to attack. That enables Romney to be the aggressor and limits Obama to playing a defensive game, not the best position to take in a debate.

What Obama needed to do, and what may have been the intention was to turn the attacks from Romney into opportunities to reinforce in the minds of the viewers the benefits of Obama's policies. His presentation just didn't pull it off. I suspect Romney's lies were pissing Obama off and he was trying to control his responses through that frustration.

Obama was clenching his jaw so hard, I thought he was going to break a molar.

42 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:40:24pm

re: #36 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Does this also explain why Global Warming deniers claim that the scientists are in it for the money?

There was a study released a couple of years ago that found people are more likely to accuse others of doing what they themselves would do in the same situation.

43 Ghost of Tom Joad  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:41:16pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

I wouldn't underestimate the damage Romney did to himself, though, by punching the truth in the face over and over and over.

Romney may have come off as more aggressive and confident during the debate, but he gave the Obama campaign a lot of good solid ammunition with all those lies.

After I thought about it, that could have possibly been Obama's M.O. during the debate. Romney and his campaign have done far more damage to themselves than Obama and his camp ever could have. The best ads so far have been nothing more than quoting Romney/Ryan on the things they have actually said. It's almost the same as a team playing for the counterattack: wait for the other team to overextend themselves, make a mistake, and then counter.

While it's far from the best strategy in terms of appearance, since 2008, it's been very effective in terms of results.

44 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:41:24pm

re: #41 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Obama was clenching his jaw so hard, I thought he was going to break a molar.

I admire the man his self-control, I'd have started into biting sarcasm and pretty much blown the debate halfway in.

45 jaunte  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:41:47pm
You know how right wingers were yelling that the polls are doctored and skewed? It's because that's what they'd do if they could.

Possibly related:

46 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:43:43pm

re: #45 jaunte

Possibly related:

[Embedded content]

Damned atheists.

47 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:44:00pm

re: #45 jaunte

Possibly related:

[Embedded content]

Ha!
Five finger discount in the name of Jayzus!

48 nines09  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:46:20pm

re: #45 jaunte

Possibly related:

[Embedded content]

"I had to steal the Bible, your Honor. How else would my children know Jesus?"
Head meet desk. Blam...

49 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:46:45pm

Seriously, the "disappointment" in some, demanding to know why Obama didn't debunk Romney's lies on stage, ignores two things. First, there's no way for Obama to demonstrate these lies in real time. He couldn't have props or charts on stage, and trying to put such concepts in simple terms would have drug out the explanations and just eaten his time.

Second, the words of the Little Corporal are best heeded in such circumstances: "Do not interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." Romney has so badly overextended himself that not only will it cause problems for Ryan in next week's debate, but it's gonna hang over his campaign like a fetid stench til the town hall two weeks from now.

Willard got the "upper hand" on Wednesday, but he's painted himself into a corner he can't get out of. Not without either admitting he lied or just cranking up the lies to the point that they're painfully obvious.

50 jaunte  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:46:49pm

Redistributing for the Lord.

51 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:47:09pm

re: #44 Targetpractice

I admire the man his self-control, I'd have started into biting sarcasm and pretty much blown the debate halfway in.

I still think something happened to Bo.

52 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:47:52pm

re: #44 Targetpractice

I admire the man his self-control, I'd have started into biting sarcasm and pretty much blown the debate halfway in.

Frankly, I would have understood if President Obama had done this after having to put up with all of that shit:

53 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:49:44pm

re: #52 Gert Fröbe

Frankly, I would have understood if President Obama had done this after having to put up with all of that shit:

[Embedded content]

Wouldn't have blamed him if he'd done this:

54 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:50:18pm

re: #32 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That's definitely what RCP is doing, deliberately dropping inconvenient polls from their average.

55 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:52:29pm

re: #28 JamesWI

They had to take 3 polls favoring Obama (+9, +7, +3) out of their polling average even though they fall within the dates they set, so they can show a closer race.

which ones are those?

56 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:53:13pm

re: #6 ElCapitanAmerica

Seems entirely on topic to suggest that the campaign needs to find a good way as humanly possible to fact check during the debate, not trying to "harp". These videos are great, just afraid they don't have the audience that the debates will have.

TBS just played an Obama "Truth Squad" ad during the Oakland-Detroit ALDS game - debunking Romney's denial that he'll cut taxes for the rich. "If we can't trust him here [debate podium], why should we trust him here [Oval Office]?"

57 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:54:05pm

re: #47 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Ha!
Five finger discount in the name of Jayzus!

For the CHILDREN!

58 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:55:19pm

re: #51 Blackity Black Black!

I still think something happened to Bo.

Or Pakistan

59 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:55:36pm

re: #55 engineer cat

which ones are those?

NPR (9/26-9/30) Obama +7
ABC News/Wash. Post (9/26-9/30) Obama +2 (I accidentally said +3 in the previous post)
Wash.Times/JZ Analytics (9/27-9/30) Obama +9

The date spectrum for their average is 9/26-10/5, and includes one poll from 9/26-9/30 and another from 9/27-9/30

60 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:56:06pm

PublicPolicyPolling @ppppolls

some right winger who signs themselves "killgore" tweeting back at ppp, but it doesn't sound like our fellow lizard

61 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:56:07pm

re: #56 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

TBS just played an Obama "Truth Squad" ad during the Oakland-Detroit ALDS game: debunking his denial that he'll cut taxes for the rich. "If we can't trust him here [debate podium], why should we trust him here [Oval Office]?"

Same ad just played here. So yeah, the fact-checking is going on. And word of mouth is gonna carry it for the next two weeks.

62 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:56:52pm

re: #55 engineer cat

which ones are those?

NPR +7, ABC/Wash Post +2 (Not 3), and Wash Times/JZ Analytics +9. All within RCP's current stated date range and none of which have been superseded by new numbers from the same pollster.

63 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:57:01pm

Israel checking: Was drone headed to Dimona?

After Israeli fighter jets shot down a drone over the Yatir forest in the south Mount Hebron area on Saturday, the army is trying to figure out what its destination was. One of the possibilities the security establishment is looking into is that the unmanned aircraft, which was apparently Iranian-made, was on its way to test the option of infiltrating the nuclear reactor in Dimona, perhaps even to examine the option of targeting the plant in a future conflict.

One odd thing about the video of the Israelis shooting down the drone: the plane shot it with a missile at very close range. Why bother getting that close when the missile probably has a range of a mile or better.

64 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:57:12pm

re: #51 Blackity Black Black!

I still think something happened to Bo.

He got hit upside the head by a Romney fish.

65 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:57:18pm

I really think he kept his eyes down to avoid glaring at Mitt.
That's what I would have done.

66 Ghost of Tom Joad  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 4:58:09pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Only thing I can think of is visual confirmation from the pilot before getting authority to shoot it down?

67 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:00:07pm

re: #59 JamesWI

NPR (9/26-9/30) Obama +7
ABC News/Wash. Post (9/26-9/30) Obama +2 (I accidentally said +3 in the previous post)
Wash.Times/JZ Analytics (9/27-9/30) Obama +9

The date spectrum for their average is 9/26-10/5, and includes one poll from 9/26-9/30 and another from 9/27-9/30

As I mentioned in the last thread, if RCP was honoring their own stated formula the averaged would be Obama +3.125 (rounded down to 3.1) right now instead of 1.4.

I really wish that Nate Silver would nail them for this kind of blatant bullshitting.

68 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:00:50pm

re: #65 Reverend Mother Ramallo

I really think he kept his eyes down to avoid glaring at Mitt.
That's what I would have done.

Obama has no trouble being confrontational. Remember his meetings with Republicans leaders over healthcare reform? He laid them out and debunked the lies, mistruths, etc without hesitation. Obama was having an off night and wasn't well prepared for the debate. I don't think it was part of a secret master plan, he didn't perform well.

69 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:02:31pm

re: #66 Ghost of Tom Joad

Only thing I can think of is visual confirmation from the pilot before getting authority to shoot it down?

I thought about that too but as you can tell from the camera footage, the pilot wasn't the only one watching it. The cameras has close ups of it and they watched it for something like 20-30 minutes.

70 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:03:04pm

re: #65 Reverend Mother Ramallo

I really think he kept his eyes down to avoid glaring at Mitt.
That's what I would have done.

Actually, in my case, glaring is not quite right.
I would have probably told him he was full of shit.
I'm not very presidential.

71 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:04:56pm

Does anyone know the correlation of debate wins to election wins? Has a candidate ever lost all the debates but still won the election?

72 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:09:39pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

Does anyone know the correlation of debate wins to election wins? Has a candidate ever lost all the debates but still won the election?

Not sure about that, but I saw somewhere else that in years where there is an incumbent, the challenger (or one of the challengers, in the case of Perot in 92) has been considered the "winner" in the first debate every time, going back to (I believe) '72. I don't have anything in front of me to verify that this is 100% true, though.

73 Sophia77  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:10:15pm

re: #70 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Actually, in my case, glaring is not quite right.
I would have probably told him he was full of shit.
I'm not very presidential.

I'd have said, With all due respect, you're full of shit.

Trying to be Presidential:)

74 Sophia77  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:11:05pm

Meanwhile the polls are making me nervous. I sure hope Charles is right and the lies catch up with this scurrilous individual.

75 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:12:35pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

Does anyone know the correlation of debate wins to election wins? Has a candidate ever lost all the debates but still won the election?

has any candidate ever definitively "lost" all debates?

like i was saying, the best comparisons for last weds are the first mondale-reagan in 1984 and kerry-bush. in other words, the correlation of challengers unexpectedly "winning" the first debate to them winning the election is zero

76 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:13:50pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

Obama has no trouble being confrontational. Remember his meetings with Republicans leaders over healthcare reform? He laid them out and debunked the lies, mistruths, etc without hesitation. Obama was having an off night and wasn't well prepared for the debate. I don't think it was part of a secret master plan, he didn't perform well.

Nope. I don't think it was a master plan, but Mitt's lies vary from day to day.
I'm not sure how he would have prepared for that, and my guess is, for a guy like Obama, not even being able to be prepared would piss him off.
There wasn't even enough time to sift through that garbage in the allotted time to give a proper rebuttal.
After all is said and done though, Romney gave plenty of lemons for Obama to make delicious lemonade.

77 engineer cat  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:14:46pm

re: #75 engineer cat

has any candidate ever definitively "lost" all debates?

like i was saying, the best comparisons for last weds are the first mondale-reagan in 1984 and kerry-bush. in other words, the correlation of challengers unexpectedly "winning" the first debate to them winning the election is zero

no, wait, i take that back. jimmy carter was clearly in a very weakened condition, but the public didn't seem willing to commit to reagan until after the debates. but is obama-romney like carter-reagan?

78 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:18:00pm

re: #45 jaunte

Possibly related:

[Embedded content]

re: #48 nines09

"I had to steal the Bible, your Honor. How else would my children know Jesus?"
Head meet desk. Blam...

"Thou shalt not steal" is a bit ironic here, ain't it?

79 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:18:29pm
80 jaunte  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:22:46pm

#therumble2012 is having technical difficulties:

[Link: twitter.com...]

81 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:24:59pm

Love Jon Stewart, but not going to watch O'Reilly. No matter what. Whole thing kinda stinks. Wonder how many O'Reilly fans are watching? I say zero.

82 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:26:42pm

re: #81 Blackity Black Black!

Love Jon Steward, but not going to watch O'Reilly. No matter what. Whole thing kinda stinks. Wonder how many O'Reilly fans are watching? I say zero.

When is that?

83 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:27:14pm

re: #13 Varek Raith

Frank says:

The person who stands up and says, "This is stupid," either is asked to 'behave' or, worse, is greeted with a cheerful "Yes, we know! Isn't it terrific!"

Frank says:

The last election just laid the foundation for the next 500 years of Dark Ages. -- From 1981

84 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:27:39pm

re: #76 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Nope. I don't think it was a master plan, but Mitt's lies vary from day to day.
I'm not sure how he would have prepared for that, and my guess is, for a guy like Obama, not even being able to be prepared would piss him off.
There wasn't even enough time to sift through that garbage in the allotted time to give a proper rebuttal.
After all is said and done though, Romney gave plenty of lemons for Obama to make delicious lemonade.

I mean, Obama had to be thinking:
1. What kind of BS is this fool gonna come up with today?
2. I think this mofo just called me boy!
3. I swear to God...If he doesn't stop smiling at me...he's lucky Michelle made me leave the R/C for the drones at the White House...

85 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:29:26pm

I for one am glad to see that the major media have abandoned or at least moderated their policy of skewed polling. There is an obvious danger of backsliding, however, as shown by the constant nit-picking of irrelevant data by so-called "fact checkers." No doubt the media personnel were raised by wolves or perhaps hippies. Otherwise they would know that you don't need these "facts" when you have God, the free market, and American exceptionalism on your side.

86 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:29:27pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

Does anyone know the correlation of debate wins to election wins? Has a candidate ever lost all the debates but still won the election?

It doesn't matter because they're independent.

87 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:35:34pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

When is that?

now

88 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:38:12pm

I have no idea why Jon has anything to do with O'Reilly.
It's like his weird relationship with Barton.

89 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:39:24pm

re: #88 reflections of a raging redneck

I have no idea why Jon has anything to do with O'Reilly.
It's like his weird relationship with Barton.

$$$

90 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:42:12pm

Congressman opens voting rights probe of tea party group

A Maryland congressman has opened an investigation of a group that has tried to remove thousands of voters from registration rolls across the nation in advance of the presidential election.

The inquiry by Rep. Elijah E. Cummings , a Democrat, is being started a week after Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) urged the Justice Department to enforce voting rights laws, citing a Los Angeles Times article detailing attempts by an Ohio offshoot of the group, True the Vote, to strike hundreds of students and others from voting rolls.

“At some point, an effort to challenge voter registrations by the thousands without any legitimate basis may be evidence of illegal voter suppression,” Cummings told True the Vote founder Catherine Engelbrecht in a letter on Thursday. “If these efforts are intentional, politically motivated and widespread across multiple states, they could amount to a criminal conspiracy to deny legitimate voters their constitutional rights.”

91 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:44:16pm

re: #89 Blackity Black Black!

$$$

Every time I see your nic that song gets stuck in my head.
XD

92 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:46:14pm

re: #91 Varek Raith

Every time I see your nic that song gets stuck in my head.
XD

You mean this one?


;-P
93 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:47:13pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

Congressman opens voting rights probe of tea party group

They better do some pretty fast probing.

94 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:49:56pm

re: #93 wrenchwench

They better do some pretty fast probing.

I'll call up some Greys.

95 Patricia Kayden  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:51:41pm

Maybe President Obama was simply overwhelmed by the number of Romney's lies.

Hopefully, he'll be much better prepared for the next 2 debates as far as calling Romney a liar to his face.

96 allegro  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:55:33pm

re: #95 Patricia Kayden

Maybe President Obama was simply overwhelmed by the number of Romney's lies.

[Embedded content]

Hopefully, he'll be much better prepared for the next 2 debates as far as calling Romney a liar to his face.

By the time of the next debate when there has been a couple of weeks of news about Romney's 28 lies in 37 minutes in the first debate, he'll be in a much better position to do that.

97 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 5:58:40pm

lulz

Wingnuts....they love the Constitution, except when they don't. Parody and satire are protected speech, Queen of the Hacks.

98 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:03:16pm

re: #94 Varek Raith

I'll call up some Greys.

Do they have a union?

99 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:04:16pm

re: #98 reflections of a raging redneck

Do they have a union?

I believe it's more of a confederation.

100 Only The Lurker Knows  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:06:58pm

re: #66 Ghost of Tom Joad

re: #63 Killgore Trout

But why use a missile and totally destroy it. Why not cannon fire and bring it down pretty much intact for intel purposes? Only reason I can think of is they know where it came from, what its mission was and to demonstrate total complete contempt for those who sent it. But that is just me.

101 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:07:31pm

re: #99 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

I believe it's more of a confederation.

Good, that means they don't have to be paid unearthly union rates.

102 Varek Raith  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:08:08pm

re: #98 reflections of a raging redneck

Do they have a union?

Guilds.

103 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:09:22pm

re: #97 JamesWI

Response from the parody account:

104 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:09:24pm

re: #102 Varek Raith

Guilds.

The Guild of Extraterrestrial Professional Probers.

105 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:09:54pm

re: #74 Sophia77

Meanwhile the polls are making me nervous. I sure hope Charles is right and the lies catch up with this scurrilous individual.

What polls?

106 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:10:57pm

I just saw a new ad from Mitt's super-PAC (Restore our Future), that says "unemployment is above 8%." So, is Mitt going to go all jobs-truther on us? Please, let it be so.......

107 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:11:52pm

This guy cracks me up.

But some of his best ones he deletes right after posting. Like this:

‏@ShitGermansSay

Please refrain from oktobering the shit outta our fest. #danke

108 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:16:38pm
109 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:18:18pm

Beware of these GOP Consultant Polls-We Ask America, Purple Strategies, Rass and Garvis.

They have R-Money winning black voters in Colorado 58-40.

Smells like bullshit to me. Not that it will stop the MSM from pushing them.

111 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:20:48pm

re: #109 moderatelyradicalliberal

Beware of these GOP Consultant Polls-We Ask America, Purple Strategies, Rass and Garvis.

They have R-Money winning black voters in Colorado 58-40.

[Embedded content]

Smells like bullshit to me. Not that it will stop the MSM from pushing them.

If its a push poll the numbers are nonsense.

112 Lidane  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:20:55pm

Been in the same room as the boyfriend watches season 3 of the show 24. He's gotten into the show lately, and it's pretty much all he's had on TV as he works his way through the DVDs.

I have to say, other than having young Spock and the villain from Desperado in it, this has to be a pretty weak season compared to the first two. Very underwhelming.

113 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:21:28pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

Inside cover of Donald Fagen's vinyl release of 'Sunken Condos'.

I've always liked Fagen (solo or with Steely Dan).

114 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:22:11pm

re: #112 Lidane

Been in the same room as the boyfriend watches season 3 of the show 24. He's gotten into the show lately, and it's pretty much all he's had on TV as he works his way through the DVDs.

I have to say, other than having young Spock and the villain from Desperado in it, this has to be a pretty weak season compared to the first two. Very underwhelming.

Introduce him to The Walking Dead.

115 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:23:00pm

re: #109 moderatelyradicalliberal

Beware of these GOP Consultant Polls-We Ask America, Purple Strategies, Rass and Garvis.

They have R-Money winning black voters in Colorado 58-40.

[Embedded content]

Smells like bullshit to me. Not that it will stop the MSM from pushing them.

Yeah, I've been watching the polls for a while now. Gravis is one of the worst. They should have an (R) next to all their polls like they do with PPP and the Dems.

116 Lidane  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:23:23pm

re: #114 reflections of a raging redneck

Introduce him to The Walking Dead.

Oh, we both love that show. We even watch that Talking Dead show after each episode during the season.

That's the problem. He's bored with TV until The Walking Dead starts up again, so it's all Kiefer Sutherland all the time right now. Haha.

117 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:24:11pm

re: #112 Lidane

Been in the same room as the boyfriend watches season 3 of the show 24. He's gotten into the show lately, and it's pretty much all he's had on TV as he works his way through the DVDs.

I have to say, other than having young Spock and the villain from Desperado in it, this has to be a pretty weak season compared to the first two. Very underwhelming.

I am so over 24. They jumped so many sharks, I stopped watching after the episode where they [spoiler deleted even though it was 5 years ago]

118 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:25:23pm

re: #114 reflections of a raging redneck

Introduce him to The Walking Dead.

I am so ready. Next weekend is all the re-runs.

119 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:27:11pm

The real BB, sanity.


120 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:31:40pm

re: #119 Blackity Black Black!

The real BB, sanity.

[Embedded content]

If R-Money fires BB I don't think poor Mr. Snuffleupagus will be able to take it. He's already depressed.

121 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:32:38pm

Mitt Romney Debates Himself

122 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:33:33pm

The opening episode of 'Dexter' was kind of a disappointment. Just sayin'. Seemed like the studio suits came in and told the producers to tone it down. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got.

Maybe I should read the books and see what they're trying to avoid for the mass audience.

123 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:34:05pm

Haha, the best new poll I'm seeing is from a Republican firm in Ohio, sponsored by Citizens United. They have Romney up 2.......and Sherrod Brown losing his Senate seat by 4. Essentially every other poll from the last month has Brown up by at least 8%......except a Gravis poll that has him only winning by 0.9%.

There definitely are skewed polls.....it's the right-wingers doing the skewing.

124 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:34:55pm

Cool fact about Mr. Snuffi

Snuffleupagus was a HUMONGOUS muppet on Sesame Street. Originally, he was supposed to be Big Bird's invisible friend. The audience would see this gigantic, lumbering, wooly mammoth come talk to Big Bird - but every time Big Bird would try to go get others to meet Snuffleupagus (so they would believe he existed), Snuffleupagus had decided to leave. So everyone thought Big Bird was lying about having a big wooly mammoth friend named Snuffleupagus. Eventually, researchers for the show realized that the young children tv-viewers were getting VERY anxious about this character!! We all could see him and knew he was real (it was not at all obvious to kids he was supposed to be the "invisible friend" - since we saw him the same as all the other characters). Children were getting very upset that everyone thought Big Bird was lying when Big Bird was not. Ultimately, the writers had to make Snuffleupagus an actual character on the show who interacted with everyone (not just Big Bird as before). So when I use the word Snuffleupagus, I use it to refer to someone elusive, hard to get to know or hard to believe exists

[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]

125 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:36:09pm

re: #116 Lidane

Oh, we both love that show. We even watch that Talking Dead show after each episode during the season.

That's the problem. He's bored with TV until The Walking Dead starts up again, so it's all Kiefer Sutherland all the time right now. Haha.

I'm dumb

126 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:36:28pm

re: #123 JamesWI

Haha, the best new poll I'm seeing is from a Republican firm in Ohio, sponsored by Citizens United. They have Romney up 2.......and Sherrod Brown losing his Senate seat by 4. Essentially every other poll from the last month has Brown up by at least 8%......except a Gravis poll that has him only winning by 0.9%.

There definitely are skewed polls.....it's the right-wingers doing the skewing.

R-Money made a 10 point turnaround. Right.

Republicans always accuse Democrats of doing what they are doing.

127 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:36:59pm

Another funny thing about Gravis.....they release their poll results through a Blogspot website.

What, were Geocities and Tripod too expensive?

128 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:37:01pm

Mitt Romney's Air Raid on Big Bird

129 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:37:06pm

re: #119 Blackity Black Black!

The real BB, sanity.

[Embedded content]

Not quite the "real" Big Bird; notice the lower-case l's substituting for upper-case I's. However, I can dig the message.

130 allegro  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:38:50pm

re: #123 JamesWI

Haha, the best new poll I'm seeing is from a Republican firm in Ohio, sponsored by Citizens United. They have Romney up 2.......and Sherrod Brown losing his Senate seat by 4. Essentially every other poll from the last month has Brown up by at least 8%......except a Gravis poll that has him only winning by 0.9%.

There definitely are skewed polls.....it's the right-wingers doing the skewing.

Well of course. They always announce what they're going to do by accusing the Dems of doing it.

131 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:39:08pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

The opening episode of 'Dexter' was kind of a disappointment. Just sayin'. Seemed like the studio suits came in and told the producers to tone it down. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got.

Maybe I should read the books and see what they're trying to avoid for the mass audience.

The book and the novels deviated from one another quite rapidly, not just in terms of plot, but in characterization of the protagonist. Book Dexter is not at all Series Dexter, and the former really doesn't provoke empathy...or interest, for that matter--glib sociopaths are kind of one-note.

Also, the books aren't very good after the novelty of the premise wears off. The writing is not great and the full-time Dexter POV grates.

132 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:39:17pm

Evening Honcos.
(shout out to Stanley Sea. WOOT!!)

133 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:41:49pm

re: #128 Gus

Mitt Romney's Air Raid on Big Bird

[Embedded content]

If the Marquis de Mittens has his way BB will have to go back to work in the circus.

134 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:44:34pm

Gravis poll has Romney winning 34% of the black vote in Nevada.......and 66% of the MUSLIM vote.

And they have Romney winning the 18-29 year old group......

In Colorado, they have Romney getting 58% of the black vote

Good lord, they're not even TRYING to look legit, and poll-trackers actually include them in their averages.

135 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:46:38pm

re: #134 JamesWI

Gravis poll has Romney winning 34% of the black vote in Nevada.......and 66% of the MUSLIM vote.

And they have Romney winning the 18-29 year old group......

In Colorado, they have Romney getting 58% of the black vote

Good lord, they're not even TRYING to look legit, and poll-trackers actually include them in their averages.

I don't see how you could even create a sample that would give these results.

136 b_sharp  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:47:24pm

re: #135 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't see how you could even create a sample that would give these results.

It's all how the questions are framed.

137 jhrhv  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:47:32pm

One of the things that Mitt did during the debate that he didn't get called out on IMHO is that he whined that President Obama spent 2 years working to get health care passed instead of working on creating jobs.

If living up to pre-election promises is something Mitt doesn't respect or value then what he is saying is that anything he is currently promising like say creating 12 million jobs or well anything else he is promising is something he won't have any trouble walking back and or away from if he gets elected.

138 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:48:07pm

re: #135 moderatelyradicalliberal

I don't see how you could even create a sample that would give these results.

Their entire sample of 18-29 year-olds was probably the College Republican chapter at the local college.

139 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:49:25pm

re: #137 jhrhv

One of the things that Mitt did during the debate that he didn't get called out on IMHO is that he whined that President Obama spent 2 years working to get health care passed instead of working on creating jobs.

If living up to pre-election promises is something Mitt doesn't respect or value then what he is saying is that anything he is currently promising like say creating 12 million jobs or well anything else he is promising is something he won't have any trouble walking back and or away from if he gets elected.

That 12 million number is interesting. Before R-Money was saying would create 12 million jobs some economist was predicting that 12 million jobs would be created regardless of who's president. That number doesn't come from his own camp. It's what's expected to happen no matter what.

140 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:51:09pm

re: #136 reflections of a raging redneck

It's all how the questions are framed.

Do you:
A) Love Moose Trax ice cream
B) Can't live without Moose Trax ice cream
C) I would kill right now for some Moose Trax ice cream
/

141 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:51:54pm

Twitter just sent me an email to try to entice me to "discover more". I'm not sure that I am interested.

142 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:54:37pm

re: #132 Cannadian Club Akbar

Evening Honcos.
(shout out to Stanley Sea. WOOT!!)

DUDE. I'm still freaking out. Texted every single person who know's I'm a Gator.

143 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:54:37pm

re: #134 JamesWI

Gravis poll has Romney winning 34% of the black vote in Nevada.......and 66% of the MUSLIM vote.

And they have Romney winning the 18-29 year old group......

In Colorado, they have Romney getting 58% of the black vote

Good lord, they're not even TRYING to look legit, and poll-trackers actually include them in their averages.

This is ridiculous.
I don't even think they took a poll.

144 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:55:38pm

Haha, the Biden-Palin debate is on CSPAN, I turned it over there just in time for "Say it ain't so, Joe!!!"... Good lord, she is awful.

145 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:56:43pm

re: #144 JamesWI

Haha, the Biden-Palin debate is on CSPAN, I turned it over there just in time for "Say it ain't so, Joe!!!"... Good lord, she is awful.

STARBURSTS!

146 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:57:06pm

I can't believe this woman was almost one heartbeat away from the Presidency......

147 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:57:11pm

re: #142 Blackity Black Black!

And, a gorgeous Gator, at that!
*waves*

148 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:58:50pm

re: #147 Dancing along the light of day

And, a gorgeous Gator, at that!
*waves*

Hey Flo! smooch!

I'm off to the store to get ingredients for soup. Yes, it's cooling down a little. hahah 78!!

149 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 6:59:20pm

Every answer is word salad.

150 Lidane  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:00:26pm

re: #134 JamesWI

Gravis poll has Romney winning 34% of the black vote in Nevada.......and 66% of the MUSLIM vote.

And they have Romney winning the 18-29 year old group......

In Colorado, they have Romney getting 58% of the black vote

On what planet would Mitt Romney win among black voters? Or voters under 30?

ROFL.

151 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:01:30pm

re: #148 Blackity Black Black!

Hey Flo! smooch!

I'm off to the store to get ingredients for soup. Yes, it's cooling down a little. hahah 78!!

I hate you. It's gonna be 38 here Monday morning and my warm winter clothes are in route from NC. I am actually sitting in a room with a fireplace that actually has a fire in it for the first time in my life. (people in Florida DEMAND a fireplace when building a house to use once every 2 years. Idiots.)

152 Mattand  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:03:27pm

re: #117 Sheila Broflovski

I am so over 24. They jumped so many sharks, I stopped watching after the episode where they [spoiler deleted even though it was 5 years ago]

...nuked a suburb of LA and never mentioned it the rest of the season? Or so I've heard, as I refused to have anything to do with that show. Someone once described it right-wing porn. From the descriptions of the show, it sounds about right.

153 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:05:21pm

re: #152 Mattand

...nuked a suburb of LA and never mentioned it the rest of the season? Or so I've heard, as I refused to have anything to do with that show. Someone once described it right-wing porn. From the descriptions of the show, it sounds about right.

Some seasons were good, some, not so much. But when a bad guy wants proof another guy is dead and Jack hands him a bag with dudes head in it, I'm good.

154 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:05:38pm

Man, I thought she was terrible at the time, but I didn't realize HOW terrible she was. Her answers make absolutely no sense.

155 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:05:50pm

fixed

156 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:06:32pm

re: #136 reflections of a raging redneck

It's all how the questions are framed.

If the election was held today, would you vote for:
a) Mitt Romney
b) Mitt Romney
c) Mitt Romney
d) All of the above

//

157 Mattand  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:07:04pm

re: #155 Cannadian Club Akbar

fixed

I thought "another guy is dean" is better. Jack Bauer really, really hates college administrators.

158 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:08:44pm

re: #157 Mattand

I thought "another guy is dean" is better. Jack Bauer really, really hates college administrators.

"Funny. I'm married to a guy named Dean Wormer"
/

159 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:09:18pm

re: #152 Mattand

...nuked a suburb of LA and never mentioned it the rest of the season? Or so I've heard, as I refused to have anything to do with that show. Someone once described it right-wing porn. From the descriptions of the show, it sounds about right.

Funny you should say that.
When Rush Limpballs had his (or somebody's) Viagra confiscated in Palm Beach, he was with the producers of 24.

160 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:12:43pm

Joe stumbles over his words a little too much, but he's still killing it in this debate (even factoring in the level of his competition).

I don't see Ryan winning this debate. Romneybot can actually fake emotion pretty well when he needs to. I haven't seen anything out of Ryan that makes me think he can look like anything other than a fake-nerd doofus.

161 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:12:55pm

re: #159 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Funny you should say that.
When Rush Limpballs had his (or somebody's) Viagra confiscated in Palm Beach, he was with the producers of 24.

With the audience Rush has it makes sense for producers to hang with him to have Rush pimp the show.

162 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:13:04pm

Heh. Watching some sort of 2nd-tier western on TV from the mid-70s. 2nd or 3rd billing (after Warren Oates) was Jenny Agutter. I thought "OK, what odds there's a mid-range shot of her nude bathing in a pond or stream?" And 20 or so minutes in what do we get but exactly that. NTTAWWT.

163 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:14:50pm

re: #162 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Heh. Watching some sort of 2nd-tier western on TV from the mid-70s. 2nd or 3rd billing (after Warren Oates) was Jenny Agutter. I thought "OK, what odds there's a mid-range shot of her nude bathing in a pond or stream?" And 20 or so minutes in what do we get but exactly that. NTTAWWT.

I hate predictable movies.
///

164 funky chicken  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:15:50pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

Obama has no trouble being confrontational. Remember his meetings with Republicans leaders over healthcare reform? He laid them out and debunked the lies, mistruths, etc without hesitation. Obama was having an off night and wasn't well prepared for the debate. I don't think it was part of a secret master plan, he didn't perform well.

I agree with that assessment, and think the poor preparation stemmed from the fact that Obama does have a demanding job and his team's choice of John Kerry as his practice debate partner. Kerry has the obnoxious patrician thing like Romney, but he's a dunce. Romney is a walking insult generator, but his team did a much better job of preparing him for the debate, and he's apparently not as stupid as he is obnoxious and condescending. His serial fuckups on his trips abroad and his foot-in-mouth disease kinda fooled me into believing he's stupid too, so I guess I can't bash the Obama folks too much, but they did poorly in preparing POTUS for the debates. Hopefully they will do better next time.

165 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:21:49pm

re: #163 Cannadian Club Akbar

I hate predictable movies.
///

She (Jenny Agutter) appeared nude in the movie Walkabout. Which I first saw at a church youth group retreat. The adult in charge of choosing the movie had apparently failed to do her due diligence.

166 Only The Lurker Knows  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:23:03pm

Night Lizards.
Oh, About that drone the Israeli's shot down today.

"The drone reportedly originated in Lebanon, but took a circuitous route through the Mediterranean sea and around Israeli territorial waters before turning east and flying over Gaza and into Israel, according to reports on Israel Radio and in Maariv."

Sleep well Lizards.

/// Because, you know, it could never happen here.

167 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:24:04pm

re: #165 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

She appeared nude in the movie Walkabout. Which I first saw at a church youth group retreat. The adult in charge of choosing the movie had apparently failed to do her due diligence.

I worked at a video store (remember those?) and a woman wanted to rent the movie "Kids" for her 10 y/o. I told her, "Um, no".

168 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:24:29pm

re: #151 Cannadian Club Akbar

I hate you. It's gonna be 38 here Monday morning and my warm winter clothes are in route from NC. I am actually sitting in a room with a fireplace that actually has a fire in it for the first time in my life. (people in Florida DEMAND a fireplace when building a house to use once every 2 years. Idiots.)

My parents had a fireplace that they loved. (Palm Beach Gardens) my Step Dad would buy 1/4 cord every year. One time I visited at Christmas, we turned on the A/C to be able to enjoy the fire. Hilarious.

Blankies are the best bet. Learn the Blanket Toga.

169 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:25:24pm

re: #168 Blackity Black Black!

I lived on Singer Island. Small world.

170 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:28:06pm

Overcast
32°F
Humidity75%
Wind SpeedE 10 mph
Barometer30.29 in (1027.0 mb)
Dewpoint25°F (-4°C)
Visibility10.00 mi
Wind Chill24°F (-4°C)

171 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:29:39pm

re: #169 Cannadian Club Akbar

I lived on Singer Island. Small world.

I did too! Over the bridge, take a left. Cute Florida 1 BR. My good friend still lives there. Across from Sailfish Marina.

172 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:30:56pm
173 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:31:24pm

re: #151 Cannadian Club Akbar

I hate you. It's gonna be 38 here Monday morning and my warm winter clothes are in route from NC. I am actually sitting in a room with a fireplace that actually has a fire in it for the first time in my life. (people in Florida DEMAND a fireplace when building a house to use once every 2 years. Idiots.)

A fire in a fireplace, rather than a phone book?

174 BongCrodny  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:31:27pm

re: #134 JamesWI

Gravis poll has Romney winning 34% of the black vote in Nevada.......and 66% of the MUSLIM vote.

And they have Romney winning the 18-29 year old group......

In Colorado, they have Romney getting 58% of the black vote

Good lord, they're not even TRYING to look legit, and poll-trackers actually include them in their averages.

It's also got Obama's approval rating among blacks at 35% positive, 57% negative.

It would take a lot of sugar to get me to swallow that one.

175 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:31:27pm

re: #171 Blackity Black Black!

I did too! Over the bridge, take a left. Cute Florida 1 BR. My good friend still lives there. Across from Sailfish Marina.

Did you ever go to Ocean's 11? I paid the bartender's rent with my tips!! (I also worked at the former Burt Reynolds theater. Used to drink Fosters at The Brass Ring)

176 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:32:08pm
177 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:32:35pm

re: #173 prairiefire

A fire in a fireplace, rather than a phone book?

It's tricky. You wouldn't understand.
////I get it now!! Someone has been paying attention!!!

178 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:32:57pm
179 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:38:11pm

re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did you ever go to Ocean's 11? I paid the bartender's rent with my tips!! (I also worked at the former Burt Reynolds theater. Used to drink Fosters at The Brass Ring)

If Stanley and CCA are separated by 6 degrees, I will raise my glass! To the diversity of America!

180 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:40:10pm

re: #174 BongCrodny

It's also got Obama's approval rating among blacks at 35% positive, 57% negative.

It would take a lot of sugar to get me to swallow that one.

Yeah, I'd say that these Gravis folks are pulling some serious shit outta their asses.

181 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:42:10pm

re: #179 prairiefire

If Stanley and CCA are separated by 6 degrees, I will raise my glass! To the diversity of America!

I eat at a Mexican restaurant owned by people from India. I also applied years ago to a French restaurant on Siesta Key owned by a Mexican. America. Everyone else can suck it!!!

182 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:44:48pm

re: #181 Cannadian Club Akbar

I eat at a Mexican restaurant owned by people from India. I also applied years ago to a French restaurant on Siesta Key owned by a Mexican. America. Everyone else can suck it!!!

Agreed.

183 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:45:57pm

re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did you ever go to Ocean's 11? I paid the bartender's rent with my tips!! (I also worked at the former Burt Reynolds theater. Used to drink Fosters at The Brass Ring)

yep, know it all. I worked right down the street from the Brass Ring.

184 dragonath  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:46:50pm

re: #172 Gus

[Embedded content]

"Everything that is in error must be sterilized!"

185 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:48:04pm

re: #183 Blackity Black Black!

yep, know it all. I worked right down the street from the Brass Ring.

I would take "Blue Heron" home at night. Left off A1A. Just wow.

186 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:49:33pm

re: #184 dragonath

"Everything that is in error must be sterilized!"

Ah. Since the government is not perfect it must be destroyed.

187 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:52:01pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

Obama has no trouble being confrontational. Remember his meetings with Republicans leaders over healthcare reform? He laid them out and debunked the lies, mistruths, etc without hesitation. Obama was having an off night and wasn't well prepared for the debate. I don't think it was part of a secret master plan, he didn't perform well.

Sitting presidents tend to do poorly in the first debate. No matter how hard they prep, the fact remains that they are used to a deference as head of state that a debate opponent will not extend to them. They also haven't debated anyone publicly for years whereas their opponent will have gone through a number of debates to win the nomination. Usually, the president does better in the 2nd debate. The only real exceptions were Ford and Bush the Elder, and they both lost the election (there was only 1 debate in 1980, so Jimmy Carter never got a chance to rebound in that way).

188 Lidane  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:55:45pm

Heh. Someone had a hard night:

Image: drunkgiraffes.jpg

189 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:56:49pm

re: #2 Sheeplord

Maybe, maybe not, but at this point, what is the value in continuing to harp on Obama's debate performance?

Why continue to harp? Because if Obama has 1 or 2 more debate performances like that, he may blow the election.

And because it's almost inconceivable that he wasn't better prepared, and that he looked inexperienced compared to 2008 when Obama handled John McCain (no slouch himself) with relative ease.

And, most galling, Obama had a chance to put Romney away; instead, he gave him new life. If the first debate had been even a draw, Romney would now have his back against the wall with a month to go. Basically he would be finished. But now it's a race again, due to what was probably Obama's worst public performance over the last 5 years.

Obama weathered a lot over the last 6 months, and still held a small but measurable lead the whole time. In recent weeks, that lead began to look formidable. Now it's slipping (at least some) and we may have a real race. Obama gave a giant gift to Romney. And if Mittens can pull this thing out, Oct. 3 will be seen as the night the big turnaround began. Makes me sick to say all this, but it is what it is now.

190 blueraven  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:57:15pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

Sitting presidents tend to do poorly in the first debate. No matter how hard they prep, the fact remains that they are used to a deference as head of state that a debate opponent will not extend to them. They also haven't debated anyone publicly for years whereas their opponent will have gone through a number of debates to win the nomination. Usually, the president does better in the 2nd debate. The only real exceptions were Ford and Bush the Elder, and they both lost the election (there was only 1 debate in 1980, so Jimmy Carter never got a chance to rebound in that way).

I also thought the questioning in this debate was just awful. There were no specific questions, just general questions about "how are you two different"?

No follow up questions...the moderation was a disaster.

I much prefer several moderators.

Not to make excuses for Obama. He did not do well, but the format sucked.

192 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:58:17pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

Sitting presidents tend to do poorly in the first debate. No matter how hard they prep, the fact remains that they are used to a deference as head of state that a debate opponent will not extend to them. They also haven't debated anyone publicly for years whereas their opponent will have gone through a number of debates to win the nomination. Usually, the president does better in the 2nd debate. The only real exceptions were Ford and Bush the Elder, and they both lost the election (there was only 1 debate in 1980, so Jimmy Carter never got a chance to rebound in that way).

That sounds about right. But I would admit that debating isn't Obama's strong suit. He lost to Hillary in most of their debates and his town hall performance against John McCain was much better then his performance in the first one. I suspect he will do much better in his town hall debate and the foreign policy debate against Mitt Romney.

193 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:59:02pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

Sitting presidents tend to do poorly in the first debate. No matter how hard they prep, the fact remains that they are used to a deference as head of state that a debate opponent will not extend to them.

I can't think of another opponent comparing a sitting President to his boys, or spewing the sheer quantity of lies Romney did. I can't remember another challenger being immediately contradicted by his own campaign like Romney was regarding his stance on pre-existing conditions.

194 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 7:59:16pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

Sitting presidents tend to do poorly in the first debate. No matter how hard they prep, the fact remains that they are used to a deference as head of state that a debate opponent will not extend to them. They also haven't debated anyone publicly for years whereas their opponent will have gone through a number of debates to win the nomination. Usually, the president does better in the 2nd debate. The only real exceptions were Ford and Bush the Elder, and they both lost the election (there was only 1 debate in 1980, so Jimmy Carter never got a chance to rebound in that way).

If Obama expects some special "deference as head of state" from today's Republicans, he's delusional. They've shown virtually nothing but contempt since Day 1.

195 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:00:00pm

re: #192 moderatelyradicalliberal

That sounds about right. But I would admit that debating isn't Obama's strong suit. He lost to Hillary in most of their debates and his town hall performance against John McCain was much better then his performance in the first one. I suspect he will do much better in his town hall debate and the foreign policy debate against Mitt Romney.

I said Obama wasn't quick on his feet during debates and got two responses telling me I was wrong. I still stand by my comment.

196 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:00:45pm

re: #188 Lidane

Heh. Someone had a hard night:

Image: drunkgiraffes.jpg

EXCUSE ME?
///

197 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:00:58pm

re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar

I said Obama wasn't quick on his feet during debates and got two responses telling me I was wrong. I still stand by my comment.

He's not good at soundbites. Never has been. Debates are geared towards sound bites.

198 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:02:14pm

re: #189 palomino

Why continue to harp? Because if Obama has 1 or 2 more debate performances like that, he may blow the election.

And because it's almost inconceivable that he wasn't better prepared, and that he looked inexperienced compared to 2008 when Obama handled John McCain (no slouch himself) with relative ease.

And, most galling, Obama had a chance to put Romney away; instead, he gave him new life. If the first debate had been even a draw, Romney would now have his back against the wall with a month to go. Basically he would be finished. But now it's a race again, due to what was probably Obama's worst public performance over the last 5 years.

Obama weathered a lot over the last 6 months, and still held a small but measurable lead the whole time. In recent weeks, that lead began to look formidable. Now it's slipping (at least some) and we may have a real race. Obama gave a giant gift to Romney. And if Mittens can pull this thing out, Oct. 3 will be seen as the night the big turnaround began. Makes me sick to say all this, but it is what it is now.

I see the 1st debate will be this elections Bradley Effect. Willard needs a lot more than one debate to win and Obama needs a lot more then one debate to lose.

199 KoolEarl  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:02:22pm

As far as the poll watching/speculating: I think we need to wait until around Tuesday/Wed to see how everything shakes out after the debate and jobs report

200 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:03:38pm

re: #199 KoolEarl

As far as the poll watching/speculating: I think we need to wait until around Tuesday/Wed to see how everything shakes out after the debate and jobs report

That sounds reasonable.

201 blueraven  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:03:41pm

re: #189 palomino

Why continue to harp? Because if Obama has 1 or 2 more debate performances like that, he may blow the election.

And because it's almost inconceivable that he wasn't better prepared, and that he looked inexperienced compared to 2008 when Obama handled John McCain (no slouch himself) with relative ease.

And, most galling, Obama had a chance to put Romney away; instead, he gave him new life. If the first debate had been even a draw, Romney would now have his back against the wall with a month to go. Basically he would be finished. But now it's a race again, due to what was probably Obama's worst public performance over the last 5 years.

Obama weathered a lot over the last 6 months, and still held a small but measurable lead the whole time. In recent weeks, that lead began to look formidable. Now it's slipping (at least some) and we may have a real race. Obama gave a giant gift to Romney. And if Mittens can pull this thing out, Oct. 3 will be seen as the night the big turnaround began. Makes me sick to say all this, but it is what it is now.

Still the question remains. After you have said all that, and it has been repeated ad nauseum, what is the point of piling on?
You are angry, OK we get it.
Do something. Bitching on a blog wont help.
Will you not vote?
Are you so angry you will just give up?

202 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:03:53pm

re: #190 blueraven

I also thought the questioning in this debate was just awful. There were no specific questions, just general questions about "how are you two different"?

No follow up questions...the moderation was a disaster.

I much prefer several moderators.

Not to make excuses for Obama. He did not do well, but the format sucked.

Three segments on the economy and the fourth segment on health care reform couched almost entirely in terms of budgetary effects. Nothing at all on immigration, nothing on abortion / reproductive rights, nothing on science education or marriage equality. A debate on domestic policy that deliberately ignored the vast majority of domestic issues.

203 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:04:06pm

re: #184 dragonath

"Everything that is in error must be sterilized!"

Nomad, is that you? You wait here and I'll get Dr. Roykirk.

204 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:05:32pm

re: #201 blueraven

Still the question remains. After you have said all that, and it has been repeated ad nauseum, what is the point of piling on?
You are angry, OK we get it.
Do something. Bitching on a blog wont help.
Will you not vote?
Are you so angry you will just give up?

I hope PBO isn't in the same state of mind because he won't win the next debate if he can't shake off the last.

205 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:05:45pm

re: #193 goddamnedfrank

I can't think of another opponent comparing a sitting President to his boys, or spewing the sheer quantity of lies Romney did. I can't remember another challenger being immediately contradicted by his own campaign like Romney was regarding his stance on pre-existing conditions.

True, but Obama should have expected this. It's basically what Romney did over the course of 22 GOP debates. He can't really be debated on his positions, since he has none that last more than a few weeks. But he can be attacked for a million things Obama forgot to mention on Wed. night.

No mention of Mitt's flip flops, lies, the 47% speech, "let them go to the emergency room" comment, Bain, offshore accounts, etc, etc. Really? Obama's campaign speeches and ads over the last few months have been hard hitting. The guy who should have been repeating those attacks didn't show up.

206 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:06:16pm

re: #196 Dancing along the light of day

EXCUSE ME?
///

Those were two male giraffes fighting. They knock one another out cold to prove themselves worthy of your affections, Floral.

207 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:06:47pm

re: #183 Blackity Black Black!

re: #153 Cannadian Club Akbar

Some seasons were good, some, not so much. But when a bad guy wants proof another guy is dead and Jack hands him a bag with dudes head in it, I'm good.

I have to say I always resented the way the drug dealers could glad hand the club owners. "Hey, my money's just as good!"

208 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:06:50pm

The one thing that the debate cemented in my mind is that lying and listening to lies are a Republican's two favorite activities.

209 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:08:55pm

re: #208 goddamnedfrank

The one thing that the debate cemented in my mind is that lying and listening to lies are a Republican's two favorite activities.

That and that they consider being as asshole as being an "alpha male".

210 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:09:40pm

re: #209 moderatelyradicalliberal

That and that they consider being as asshole as being an "alpha male".

AMEN!

211 jaunte  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:12:09pm

"On March 16, Akin said he wants to abolish the minimum wage, on April 21, said he would eliminate student loans. And, on August 19, Todd Akin said, only some rapes are legitimate."

Obviously a centrist.

212 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:12:43pm

re: #210 prairiefire

AMEN!

It's funny Democrats like Obama because he seems like truly decent and kind man. A real gentleman. Republicans seem to yearn for someone who's a dick and willing to be one in public.

213 dragonath  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:12:44pm

Strains of infectious bacteria could be classified as "Alpha" too.

It doth not mean what they think it means.

214 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:13:00pm

re: #211 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Obviously a centrist.

Haha if he's a centirst. Then Obama's actually a Marxist.

215 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:13:41pm

re: #209 moderatelyradicalliberal

That and that they consider being as asshole as being an "alpha male".

The whole alpha / beta fixation is just the frustrated expression of barely repressed homosexual lust.

216 Mattand  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:13:41pm

re: #81 Blackity Black Black!

Love Jon Stewart, but not going to watch O'Reilly. No matter what. Whole thing kinda stinks. Wonder how many O'Reilly fans are watching? I say zero.

There were a lot of Jon Stewart fans not watching as well, but not for the reasons you might think. Apparently the company webcasting the event had a major meltdown:

[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Saw O'Reily on TDS Wednesday or Thursday, don't remember which. My God, if smug were fuel, the man could power every combustion engine on the planet for decades.

You rarely see someone so utterly convinced in the belief he's got the world figured out.

217 blueraven  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:14:09pm

re: #204 moderatelyradicalliberal

I hope PBO isn't in the same state of mind because he won't win the next debate if he can't shake off the last.

And he will lose if dems cant get over one bad debate.
I remember the same shit in 2008. Bed wetters.

218 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:14:36pm

re: #211 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Obviously a centrist.

Please, Jaunte, I could take you to some areas in my state and you would ask yourself, "Really?"

219 jaunte  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:15:01pm

re: #218 prairiefire

I know; I'm in Texas.

220 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:15:37pm

re: #201 blueraven

Still the question remains. After you have said all that, and it has been repeated ad nauseum, what is the point of piling on?
You are angry, OK we get it.
Do something. Bitching on a blog wont help.
Will you not vote?
Are you so angry you will just give up?

Of course I'm not gonna give up, and of course I'll vote, not having missed an election since 1984, first time I was eligible. One reason to discuss these kinds of things is to make sure they don't happen again. We can all tell ourselves that one debate won't make a big difference. But if Obama lays two more such eggs, do you really like his chances on election day?

As far as "bitching on a blog," that's so broad it could cover just about every post. There are things that make us angry--from AGW denial to theocracy to terrorism to anti-women policies to racism directed at Obama to a million other things--and our anger is one of the things that compels us to care enough to write comments. Complacency and indifference is what could kill us on election day, not anger.

221 Obdicut  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:16:08pm

re: #220 palomino

How does us talking about it make sure it won't happen again?

222 Mattand  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:16:40pm

re: #217 blueraven

And he will lose if dems cant get over one bad debate.
I remember the same shit in 2008. Bed wetters.

I guess I'm a Dem. I'm not that worked up over it. I'm sure he'll get over it, but my concern trolling is over how much bullshit Romney was apparently allowed to Gish Gallop all over the place.

American voters aren't known for their fact check skills.

223 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:16:57pm

re: #212 moderatelyradicalliberal

It's funny Democrats like Obama because he seems like truly decent and kind man. A real gentleman. Republicans seem to yearn for someone who's a dick and willing to be one in public.

Mitt Romney couldn't and still can't be polite and deferential. When you're behind you have to turn up the heat on your opponent and force him to react to you. Mitt did just that on Wednesday, and come the next debate he'll get Obama's reaction. Mitt got where he needed to go, now the question is: Can he survive it? My money's on 'yes'.

224 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:18:38pm

re: #185 Cannadian Club Akbar

I would take "Blue Heron" home at night. Left off A1A. Just wow.

F-L-O-R-I-D-A GO GATORS!

Reliving the end of the 3rd Qtr. aaaahhhhhhh!

225 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:18:54pm

re: #208 goddamnedfrank

The one thing that the debate cemented in my mind is that lying and listening to lies are a Republican's two favorite activities.

It's what happens when you're still so tightly wedded to an ideology that's way past its expiration date.

In the 70s and 80s, it seemed that the two parties were roughly equal in their devotion to ideological purity (maybe the Dems even more so). Now the Dems are pragmatists and the Republicans fanatics.

226 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:19:04pm

re: #222 Mattand

I guess I'm a Dem. I'm not that worked up over it. I'm sure he'll get over it, but my concern trolling is over how much bullshit Romney was apparently allowed to Gish Gallop all over the place.

American voters aren't known for their fact check skills.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Many will vote according to the last sound bite they heard.

227 jaunte  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:19:14pm

So much for Romney’s “bipartisanship” claims

Michael Wines at the New York Times has a thing or two to say about a thing or two regarding Willard M. Romney’s boasts about how well he played with Democratic others while he was governor of Massachusetts.

"...But on closer examination, the record as governor he alluded to looks considerably less burnished than Mr. Romney suggested. Bipartisanship was in short supply; Statehouse Democrats complained he variously ignored, insulted or opposed them, with intermittent charm offensives. He vetoed scores of legislative initiatives and excised budget line items a remarkable 844 times, according to the nonpartisan research group Factcheck.org. Lawmakers reciprocated by quickly overriding the vast bulk of them. "

“I figured out from Day 1 I had to get along, and I had to work across the aisle to get anything done.”

228 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:19:30pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

When you're behind you have to turn up the heat on your opponent and force him to react to you.

By lying, you must be so proud.

229 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:22:22pm

re: #227 jaunte

So much for Romney’s “bipartisanship” claims

“I figured out from Day 1 I had to get along, and I had to work across the aisle to get anything done.”

Is anyone really shocked that Mitt lied about this? Hell I am going to be shocked the day when Mitt is honest more than not.

230 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:22:49pm

re: #217 blueraven

And he will lose if dems cant get over one bad debate.
I remember the same shit in 2008. Bed wetters.

2008 nearly gave me high BP. The constant wailing and gnashing of teeth. And then no matter what happened the constant fear of the Bradly Effect would not go away. It was constant "OMGZ! ONOZ!"

I have a new name for it Democratic Hysteria Syndrome or DHS. Thank God PBO doesn't seem to have it.

231 jaunte  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:23:21pm

re: #229 HappyWarrior

He's the president of Fantasyland.

232 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:24:18pm

re: #228 goddamnedfrank

It is as I said: Go Hard or Go Home. Mitt Romney chose the former course.

233 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:24:31pm

re: #220 palomino

Of course I'm not gonna give up, and of course I'll vote, not having missed an election since 1984, first time I was eligible. One reason to discuss these kinds of things is to make sure they don't happen again. We can all tell ourselves that one debate won't make a big difference. But if Obama lays two more such eggs, do you really like his chances on election day?

As far as "bitching on a blog," that's so broad it could cover just about every post. There are things that make us angry--from AGW denial to theocracy to terrorism to anti-women policies to racism directed at Obama to a million other things--and our anger is one of the things that compels us to care enough to write comments. Complacency and indifference is what could kill us on election day, not anger.

The maybe the debate was good thing in the long run. You could argue that complacency could have become a problem before the debate.

234 Mattand  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:25:18pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

It is as I said: Go Hard or Go Home. Mitt Romney chose the former course.

Heh, "Lie Often or Lie Down" might be more appropriate.

235 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:26:25pm

re: #221 Sheeplord

How does us talking about it make sure it won't happen again?

It doesn't insure that it won't happen again. But it's probably better than pretending it didn't happen in the first place.

We spend a lot of our time talking about things in the past that got fucked up. Should we stop all of that because we're not sure that discussing it will make a difference?

236 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:26:46pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

It is as I said: Go Hard or Go Home. Mitt Romney chose the former course.

You know, there are ways to "Go Hard" without lying about literally everything you've said in the past 5 months.

237 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:28:15pm

re: #236 JamesWI

You know, there are ways to "Go Hard" without lying about literally everything you've said in the past 5 months.

Not if you're Mitt Romney.

238 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:29:15pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

Mitt Romney couldn't and still can't be polite and deferential. When you're behind you have to turn up the heat on your opponent and force him to react to you. Mitt did just that on Wednesday, and come the next debate he'll get Obama's reaction. Mitt got where he needed to go, now the question is: Can he survive it? My money's on 'yes'.

Until I see a legitimate poll that shows Mitt winning Ohio, he didn't get where he needed to go. Getting a response from Obama isn't his problem, losing every swing state is. Now he's lost his main talking point about unemployment being above 8%.

Let's not lose focus. Mitt only becomes the next president if a majority of Americans think the current one needs to be replaced. Reagan won 49 states with unemployment at 7.4%. I'd say 7.8% is worth quite a few swing states.

239 blueraven  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:29:47pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

It is as I said: Go Hard or Go Home. Mitt Romney chose the former course.

More like dazzle them with bullshit...as Colbert said; he was generally against republicans abandoning every position they have campaigned on but, fuck it, it worked.

240 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:30:15pm

SNL starting out with the debate.

241 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:30:25pm

re: #236 JamesWI

You know, there are ways to "Go Hard" without lying about literally everything you've said in the past 5 months.

It's worked for the Romney up to this point. No reason to think it will change in the next month...or if the douchebag gets elected.

242 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:31:43pm

re: #238 moderatelyradicalliberal

Until I see a legitimate poll that shows Mitt winning Ohio, he didn't get where he needed to go. Getting a response from Obama isn't his problem, losing every swing state is. Now he's lost his main talking point about unemployment being above 8%.

Let's not lose focus. Mitt only becomes the next president if a majority of Americans think the current one needs to be replaced. Reagan won 49 states with unemployment at 7.4%. I'd say 7.8% is worth quite a few swing states.

People talk about landslides and never mention this fact.

243 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:33:06pm

re: #241 palomino

It's worked for the Romney up to this point. No reason to think it will change in the next month...or if the douchebag gets elected.

Unemployment up until yesterday was above 8%. If what Mitt was doing was working he'd be 5-7 points ahead. He's still a shit candidate, with a shit campaign and shit ideas.

244 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:34:19pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

It is as I said: Go Hard or Go Home. Mitt Romney chose the former course.

Human beings have core convictions. Your candidate has none, he's proven this over the last SIX years, during which he's been continually running for president and continually changing his views, his policies, even rewriting his own history. You might as well be voting for a white mannequin named Mr. Not Obama.

245 alpuz  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:34:45pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

heh.. that sounds so noble. How about this. He chose to lie his ass off to score points with an ill-informed base. Eerily familiar to my own current Governor, and just as smug.

246 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:35:01pm

I started watching the "Hunger Games." I don't what all the hype is about, I think it's pretty sucky so far.

If this movie is supposed to take place centuries in the future:

1. Why are they still freaking MINING COAL?
2. Why is everybody in "District 12" dressed like it's the 1940's? (OK I kind of get they want "The Reaping" to look like the Holocaust but still it's freaking lame)
3. The costumes on the people in "The Capitol" are really stupid looking. They all look like a combination of 18th-century France and a psychedelic Ringling Brothers.
4. Where is Maximus?

247 allegro  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:35:01pm

re: #236 JamesWI

You know, there are ways to "Go Hard" without lying about literally everything you've said in the past 5 months.

He had to lie. He's got nothing else.

248 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:35:33pm

SNL has Obama distracted because he forget Michelle's anniversary gift, and they just threw in the altitude.

"Mr. President, Governor Romney just said he killed Osama bin Laden, would you like to respond?"

"No, you two go ahead"

249 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:37:55pm

SNL just spanked Obama's ass, as I knew they would.

250 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:38:04pm

That was pretty lame, other than the Bin Laden line. Not even close to their past election year sketches.

Now I'll go back to ignoring SNL like I have for the last 4 years.

251 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:38:57pm

Anyone see that "skewed" poll from GRAVIS today?

252 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:39:21pm

Nighty all. Weet dreams.:)

253 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:40:27pm
254 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:41:22pm

re: #242 Cannadian Club Akbar

People talk about landslides and never mention this fact.

We haven't had a real landslide since 1984, and we're obviously unlikely to have one this year. What we have now is a deeply, and for the time being nearly equally, divided nation. Too many solid red and blue states for there to be landslides these days. NY, TX, CA, IL, MO, LA, etc., used to be in play at least some of the time. Now, not at all. So the 45+ state landslides of 1964, 1972 and 1984 are all near impossibilities today.

255 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:41:28pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

It is as I said: Go Hard or Go Home. Mitt Romney chose the former course.

He chose to lie, to show zero personal integrity. I know it's old news that you're okay with this, that you have no personal integrity either.

But it's sad. This is who you're backing for the highest leadership position on Earth, an admitted serial liar. It's just sad, this is someone that less than a year ago you admitted stood for nothing but his own ambition.

It's just so sad. It's no wonder that you're so unhappy, processing all that cognitive dissonance has to take a real toll on a person's soul.

256 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:41:37pm

re: #246 Sheila Broflovski

I started watching the "Hunger Games." I don't what all the hype is about, I think it's pretty sucky so far.

If this movie is supposed to take place centuries in the future:

1. Why are they still freaking MINING COAL?
2. Why is everybody in "District 12" dressed like it's the 1940's? (OK I kind of get they want "The Reaping" to look like the Holocaust but still it's freaking lame)
3. The costumes on the people in "The Capitol" are really stupid looking. They all look like a combination of 18th-century France and a psychedelic Ringling Brothers.
4. Where is Maximus?

1. Because the author wanted Katniss to come from a poor rural area and Appalachia fit the bill. A mine explosion was also a useful plot device for removing Katniss's father.

2. I got nothing.

3. You're right, but its deliberate. The object is to make the people of the Capital appear leisured at the expense of everyone else and solely concerned with looks and amusements.

4. You could say that it is Katniss who becomes Maximus later in the trilogy.

257 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:42:21pm

re: #251 Gus

Anyone see that "skewed" poll from GRAVIS today?

[Embedded content]

I saw one thing when I googled their name the first time I saw one of their ridiculous polls. It took me to a left-wing site (I think it was something like "Democratic Underground") where they were talking about how he's donated to plenty of Republican candidates (and Hillary in her primary against Obama).

That guy actually showed up to try to defend himself. Though he posted simply under a user-name like "Gravis Marketing" and initially tried to act like he was just an employee. But then he let it slip when he said something like "Yeah, I donated to Republicans, but I also donated to Hillary, so that obviously means I'm completely unbiased."

258 Mich-again  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:44:31pm

I posted the link a while back. It is an unflattering book about Mitt's dad George, written by a Michigan political insider from back in the day. The Romney Riddle by Gerald O, Plas. Pretty brutal stuff. George comes off a real political animal.

I'm not trying to say Mitt is just like his dad, but the longer this campaign goes and the more adversity he runs into, you can see that maybe the acorn didn't fall so far from the tree.

259 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:45:55pm

re: #258 Mich-again

I posted the link a while back. It is an unflattering book about Mitt's dad George, written by a Michigan political insider from back in the day. The Romney Riddle by Gerald O, Plas. Pretty brutal stuff. George comes off a real political animal.

I'm not trying to say Mitt is just like his dad, but the longer this campaign goes and the more adversity he runs into, you can see that maybe the acorn didn't fall so far from the tree.

Massive daddy issues seems to be an important puzzle piece in the conservative psyche.

260 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:46:22pm

Defendant: Texas v. The Kaplan Group, Inc. dba Cash Awards Bureau dba
Disbursement Center
Headquarters: Pompano Beach, FL
Product or Business: Direct mail sweepstakes solicitations and fraudulent invoices
Action: Agreed Final Judgment and Permanent Injunction (January 27, 2000)
Court or Agency: Travis County District Court, Texas

[Link: www.ftc.gov...]

261 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:46:32pm

re: #246 Sheila Broflovski

I started watching the "Hunger Games." I don't what all the hype is about, I think it's pretty sucky so far.

If this movie is supposed to take place centuries in the future:

1. Why are they still freaking MINING COAL?
2. Why is everybody in "District 12" dressed like it's the 1940's? (OK I kind of get they want "The Reaping" to look like the Holocaust but still it's freaking lame)
3. The costumes on the people in "The Capitol" are really stupid looking. They all look like a combination of 18th-century France and a psychedelic Ringling Brothers.
4. Where is Maximus?

I thought it was terrible. I couldn't believe how bad it was and then I remembered that like Twilight it is based on a book for tweens and I had no business watching it anyway.

262 kirkspencer  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:47:21pm

re: #254 palomino

We haven't had a real landslide since 1984, and we're obviously unlikely to have one this year. What we have now is a deeply, and for the time being nearly equally, divided nation. Too many solid red and blue states for there to be landslides these days. NY, TX, CA, IL, MO, LA, etc., used to be in play at least some of the time. Now, not at all. So the 45+ state landslides of 1964, 1972 and 1984 are all near impossibilities today.

For what it's worth, I think there's some potential for a landslide in 2016, and more in 2020.

See, I think we're that close to seeing the voting hispanic population "spike".

I'm guessing the sparkplug to this will be if/when Castro runs for governor in Texas. The hispanic population here underperforms the already low national turnout level, but it's driven in part by not having a reason to vote (backed by encouragement - both subtle and overt - to keep their heads down). That's 2014 or 2018.

Once they've seen their votes matter, they'll vote more heavily in the following presidential election. The sheer quantity of press they'll have received from the Texas vote two years prior will encourage the hispanic vote in other states.

I'm not expecting them to go to huge levels, but even if they come close to current black turnout rates it'll throw everybody's current gameboards to the floor.

263 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:47:23pm

re: #259 goddamnedfrank

Thanks for the psychoanalysis, Sigmund, please fade back into the woodwork.

264 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:47:51pm

Defendant: Illinois v. Discovery Marketing, Inc. and Source Marketing, Inc. dba
Fax Source
Headquarters: Discovery Marketing: Longwood, FL; Source Marketing:
Littleton, CO
Product or Business: Unsolicited faxes offering discount vacations without disclosing the full
terms and conditions of the offer
Action: Final Judgment and Consent Decree (April 6, 2000)
Court or Agency: U.S. District Court, Central District of Illinois

265 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:48:25pm

re: #251 Gus

Anyone see that "skewed" poll from GRAVIS today?

[Embedded content]

Another con artist. Has anyone else wondered why there are so many grifters on the GOP side?

Gee....... I wonder why that it?

266 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:49:25pm

re: #265 moderatelyradicalliberal

Another con artist. Has anyone else wondered why there are so many grifters on the GOP side?

Gee....... I wonder why that it?

Here's a warning he received from the FCC in 2001.

[Link: transition.fcc.gov...]

267 alpuz  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:52:08pm

Let me get this straight. 'Go Hard' = lie your ass off to belittle your 'honorable' opponent to motivate people is now noble? Got it.

268 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:54:00pm

re: #262 kirkspencer

For what it's worth, I think there's some potential for a landslide in 2016, and more in 2020.

See, I think we're that close to seeing the voting hispanic population "spike".

I'm guessing the sparkplug to this will be if/when Castro runs for governor in Texas. The hispanic population here underperforms the already low national turnout level, but it's driven in part by not having a reason to vote (backed by encouragement - both subtle and overt - to keep their heads down). That's 2014 or 2018.

Once they've seen their votes matter, they'll vote more heavily in the following presidential election. The sheer quantity of press they'll have received from the Texas vote two years prior will encourage the hispanic vote in other states.

I'm not expecting them to go to huge levels, but even if they come close to current black turnout rates it'll throw everybody's current gameboards to the floor.

The spike you mention will only be more impactful due to age distribution. A disproportionately large number of Hispanics are under 18, while a disproportionately large number of whites are over 65. Not to be too crude about it, but with each passing day old white voters are being replaced by young minority voters. Thus I completely agree with your point about landslides...the only holdout strong red states would be conservative states with very small minority populations--Idaho, Alaska, etc.---mostly small states in the plains and rocky mountain regions.

269 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:54:06pm

re: #249 prairiefire

SNL just spanked Obama's ass, as I knew they would.

Fuck SNL. They finally got a real black man to play Obama for goodness sake. They've been great for female cast members, but it's like they have a two black people at a time rule.

270 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:54:21pm

re: #267 alpuz

Let me get this straight. 'Go Hard' = lie your ass off to belittle your 'honorable' opponent to motivate people is now noble? Got it.

Noble? No. But the man challenging a sitting president who keeps his campaign at 'noble' will be giving a concession speech on election night.

271 jaunte  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:56:12pm

"Well, clearly in a campaign with hundreds if not thousands of question and answer sessions, now and then you're going to say something that doesn't come out right. In this case I said something that's just completely wrong. And I absolutely believe however that my life has shown that I care about the 100 percent and that has been demonstrated throughout my life. This whole campaign is about the 100 percent. When I become president it'll be about helping the 100 percent."

This was quite different than what Romney said in that hastily called press conference after Mother Jones released the 47 percent video. At that point, Romney maintained that his comments had been inelegant, but he embraced the "message" he had been trying to convey at that private $50,000-a-plate fundraising dinner at a Boca Raton mansion. Nothing wrong with these comments, except for a certain clumsiness, said the candidate who wrote a book titled No Apology.
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

272 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:56:15pm

re: #270 Dark_Falcon

Noble? No. But the man challenging a sitting president who keeps his campaign at 'noble' will be giving a concession speech on election night.

Mitt will still be giving a concession speech.

273 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:57:34pm

re: #268 palomino

The spike you mention will only be more impactful due to age distribution. A disproportionately large number of Hispanics are under 18, while a disproportionately large number of whites are over 65. Not to be too crude about it, but with each passing day old white voters are being replaced by young minority voters. Thus I completely agree with your point about landslides...the only holdout strong red states would be conservative states with very small minority populations--Idaho, Alaska, etc.---mostly small states in the plains and rocky mountain regions.

Sorry but I find that intensely threatening. You ought not to put things in such racialist terms, even if that is the truth.

274 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:57:46pm

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

Thanks for the psychoanalysis, Sigmund, please fade back into the woodwork.

I don't mean to be rude, but you engage in the same type of self-introspection and speculation about others' thoughts and reasoning; indeed, most of us do.

And you have admitted that Romney's lack of a human core doesn't bother you since he's on the Red Team and the other guy is on the Blue Team. You're being called cynical, something to which you've already confessed, so why are you getting angry?

275 alpuz  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:58:15pm

re: #270 Dark_Falcon

Got it. The 'means' to justify your 'ends' are lies. No further explanation needed. It's almost as clear as when kilgore said he thinks Romney will 'probably' bank center after he's elected. Mud.

276 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 8:59:30pm

re: #273 Dark_Falcon

Sorry but I find that intensely threatening. You ought not to put things in such racialist terms, even if that is the truth.

You're gonna have to clarify as your statement is really vague. What part of racial statistics do you find threatening?

277 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:00:14pm
278 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:01:14pm

re: #277 Gus

[Embedded content]

Yeah that doesn't make any sense to me.

279 Gus  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:02:04pm

re: #278 HappyWarrior

Yeah that doesn't make any sense to me.

Just some BS "polling" outfit. He either just doesn't know what he's doing or he's push-polling for Romney.

280 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:02:45pm

re: #276 palomino

You're gonna have to clarify as your statement is really vague. What part of racial statistics do you find threatening?

I don't really think I should elaborate. I don't discuss matters of race on the net.

281 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:03:30pm

re: #273 Dark_Falcon

Sorry but I find that intensely threatening. You ought not to put things in such racialist terms, even if that is the truth.

It's what demographers and political analysts, as well as corporate researchers do, on a daily basis.

Is the threatening part that whites are shrinking and nonwhites growing? If so, why is this a threat?

Otherwise, why would you find such info threatening. It's scientific data, backed up by decades of research and accurate prediction models for future demographics.

282 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:03:33pm

re: #279 Gus

Just some BS "polling" outfit. He either just doesn't know what he's doing or he's push-polling for Romney.

Neither would shock me.

283 sagehen  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:05:23pm

re: #250 JamesWI

That was pretty lame, other than the Bin Laden line. Not even close to their past election year sketches.

Now I'll go back to ignoring SNL like I have for the last 4 years.

It wasn't a great open, but they made up for it with their sketch of MSNBC coverage of the debate -- they have Rachel, Rev Al, Chris Matthews and S E Cupp critiquing Obama's performance, making suggestions for next time....

(for those in the time zone that have already missed it, Hulu in the morning. And I still have high hopes for Weekend Update.)

284 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:05:25pm

re: #280 Dark_Falcon

I don't really think I should elaborate. I don't discuss matters of race on the net.

Sure you do. We've all read them. They tend to be ham-fisted and lacking in sensitivity.

But even if the topic makes you uncomfortable in general, why should I and others refrain from discussing it?

285 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:05:26pm

Honestly, I welcome the changing demographics. It's part of how a country grows. It's like when the country went from overwhelmingly Protestant to having more Catholics and Jews in the late 19th and early 20th century. I'd be much more concerned if we were in a situation where we had negative population growth which is the case in some countries.

286 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:05:53pm

re: #272 moderatelyradicalliberal

Mitt will still be giving a concession speech.

Jesus H. Christ, I hope you're right.

287 dragonath  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:06:03pm

Romney, the candidate for your dog eat dog, rat race dreams. So much for Lincoln.

Hey, Dark_Falcon- funny you go on about honor and nobility as things to live your life by (per your "death before dishonor" quote) and then you support the candidate that pisses all over it. What's up with that?

288 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:07:09pm

re: #281 palomino

It's what demographers and political analysts, as well as corporate researchers do, on a daily basis.

Is the threatening part that whites are shrinking and nonwhites growing? If so, why is this a threat?

Otherwise, why would you find such info threatening. It's scientific data, backed up by decades of research and accurate prediction models for future demographics.

Threatening and disgraceful because facts are facts, and the Red Team needs to get it's shit together. (but they'd rather not discuss it)

289 sagehen  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:08:00pm

re: #259 goddamnedfrank

Massive daddy issues seems to be an important puzzle piece in the conservative psyche.

Liberals have a different set of Daddy issues -- Clinton had a dead dad and abusive alcoholic stepdad, Obama was abandoned by his.

290 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:08:43pm

Just realized that I forgot Radiohead was on Austin City Limits tonight. Thankfully, it's already up on their website.

Damn commie TV station we need to get rid of!

291 alpuz  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:09:42pm

re: #287 dragonath

Ya know.. I'm not trying to pile on here, but yeah, wtf is up with that? Is that question out of line?

292 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:09:47pm

re: #288 Blackity Black Black!

Threatening and disgraceful because facts are facts, and the Red Team needs to get it's shit together. (but they'd rather not discuss it)

Tough titties if they're "threatened" at the prospect of not enough "angry white males". The sooner the racist, sexist, Limbaugh-loving, Fox-watching "angry white male" demographic shuffles off this mortal coil, the better off the world will be.

293 sagehen  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:10:38pm

re: #268 palomino

The spike you mention will only be more impactful due to age distribution. A disproportionately large number of Hispanics are under 18, while a disproportionately large number of whites are over 65. Not to be too crude about it, but with each passing day old white voters are being replaced by young minority voters. Thus I completely agree with your point about landslides...the only holdout strong red states would be conservative states with very small minority populations--Idaho, Alaska, etc.---mostly small states in the plains and rocky mountain regions.

If we're speaking about future demographics, it's time to search and replace all comments with "non-white" rather than "minority."

294 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:11:35pm

re: #292 Interesting Times

Tough titties if they're "threatened" at the prospect of not enough "angry white males". The sooner the Limbaugh-loving, Fox-watching "angry white male" demographic shuffles off this mortal coil, the better off the world will be.

They need to get over it. Whatever happens though we can't do the same thing that their ideological ancestors did in the 1920's and that's limit immigration from certain regions. My last immigrant ancestor arrived just before the 1920's quotas that limited emigration from Southern and Eastern Europe.

295 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:11:43pm

Discussing racial demographic statistics = out of line.

Supporting a man to lead our nation when he lies about EVERYTHING, including the ideas he espoused just days earlier... = Just peachy!

296 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:12:26pm

re: #270 Dark_Falcon

Noble? No. But the man challenging a sitting president who keeps his campaign at 'noble' will be giving a concession speech on election night.

As. He. Should. Be.

Not for challenging a sitting President. For conducting a campaign of lies.

297 jaunte  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:13:38pm

Mitt Romney claimed his daddy marched with Martin Luther King.
[Link: thephoenix.com...]

298 dragonath  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:14:40pm

re: #291 alpuz

Ya know.. I'm not trying to pile one here, but yeah, wtf is up with that? Is that question out of line?

I've gotten to the point that I don't really expect an answer from him, although I would be pleased to hear one. I didn't think much of his evasion the first time he never replied. It annoyed me the second time, and it started pissing me off after the third time.

Sometimes ya gotta stop acting like Charlie Brown.

299 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:15:55pm

re: #293 sagehen

If we're speaking about future demographics, it's time to search and replace all comments with "non-white" rather than "minority."

I'm working on that, but it's hard traveling back and forth in the time machine while making sure the numbers all add up.

Geez, don't tell this stuff to DF or else he's really gonna be "threatened" by the "racialism" of discussing racial statistics. Or whatever the problem is.

300 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:17:32pm

So, DF finds the idea of white people eventually becoming a minority "intensely threatening." Not to accuse him of anything.....but there's a whole lot of conclusions one could draw from that comment, none of them good.

301 alpuz  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:18:05pm

re: #298 dragonath

But I'm such a great kicker! ...dangit. *walks away*

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:18:23pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Israel checking: Was drone headed to Dimona?

One odd thing about the video of the Israelis shooting down the drone: the plane shot it with a missile at very close range. Why bother getting that close when the missile probably has a range of a mile or better.

May have wanted to get a look at it before it went down?

303 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:22:36pm

re: #189 palomino

Palomino, some folks are coming from a non-partisan background. Are you from California?

304 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:25:11pm

re: #303 prairiefire

Palomino, some folks are coming from a non-partisan background. Are you from California?

Yes, guilty as charged.

But what difference does it make?

305 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:26:08pm

re: #298 dragonath

re: #300 JamesWI

So, DF finds the idea of white people eventually becoming a minority "intensely threatening." Not to accuse him of anything.....but there's a whole lot of conclusions one could draw from that comment, none of them good.

No, they aren't good. but while I do my very best to judge individuals as individuals (and I succeed in doing so) I've also read often about the ethnic strife that changing demographics means in other nations and I am quite afraid that might happen here. I'm not a white nationalist, I have not use for their hate. So I don't really have an 'ism' to describe my feelings, just my own fears.

306 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:28:13pm

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

re: #300 JamesWI

No, they aren't good. but while I do my very best to judge individuals as individuals (and I succeed in doing so) I've also read often about the ethnic strife that changing demographics means in other nations and I am quite afraid that might happen here. I'm not a white nationalist, I have not use for their hate. So I don't really have an 'ism' to describe my feelings, just my own fears.

So, you think the moment white people are no longer the majority, everyone else is going to enslave us? Put us in concentration camps? Forcefully take our homes and money and throw us in ghettos?

307 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:30:10pm

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

re: #300 JamesWI

No, they aren't good. but while I do my very best to judge individuals as individuals (and I succeed in doing so) I've also read often about the ethnic strife that changing demographics means in other nations and I am quite afraid that might happen here. I'm not a white nationalist, I have not use for their hate. So I don't really have an 'ism' to describe my feelings, just my own fears.

Over the last 30 years, our demographic picture has changed A LOT. And yet we've managed not to turn into Zimbabwe. Fears of race wars or whatever are overblown, especially in the right wing media you consume. People like Mark Steyn may be terrified; you shouldn't be.

308 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:31:33pm

re: #306 JamesWI

So, you think the moment white people are no longer the majority, everyone else is going to enslave us? Put us in concentration camps? Forcefully take our homes and money and throw us in ghettos?

Hell, no! As I said, I am afraid of the ethnic tensions often found in multi-ethnic nations. But I don't think that there's going to be some sort of pogrom.

309 allegro  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:34:11pm

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

re: #300 JamesWI

No, they aren't good. but while I do my very best to judge individuals as individuals (and I succeed in doing so) I've also read often about the ethnic strife that changing demographics means in other nations and I am quite afraid that might happen here. I'm not a white nationalist, I have not use for their hate. So I don't really have an 'ism' to describe my feelings, just my own fears.

Keep voting for racists who stay in power by stoking that fear and paranoia and your fears could come true.

310 JamesWI  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:35:49pm

re: #308 Dark_Falcon

Hell, no! As I said, I am afraid of the ethnic tensions often found in multi-ethnic nations. But I don't think that there's going to be some sort of pogrom.

Newsflash. We are already a multi-ethnic nation. There are already ethnic tensions. The world isn't ending.

311 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:36:29pm

re: #308 Dark_Falcon

Hell, no! As I said, I am afraid of the ethnic tensions often found in multi-ethnic nations. But I don't think that there's going to be some sort of pogrom.

This already is a multi-ethnic nation. And frankly it's one of the best things about this country. That people of varied backgrounds come together as one. Look at our military, it's one of the most diverse bunches of people you'll find and an effective fighting force. Other nations I think aren't as good as we are at integrating their immigrants and their descendants as we are.

312 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:37:21pm

re: #310 JamesWI

Newsflash. We are already a multi-ethnic nation. There are already ethnic tensions. The world isn't ending.

I worry a lot, OK? I'm not a hater or bigot, but I am a worrier. Let's just leave it at that. I'll try not to talk about things I can't state clearly.

313 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:39:00pm

re: #308 Dark_Falcon

Hell, no! As I said, I am afraid of the ethnic tensions often found in multi-ethnic nations. But I don't think that there's going to be some sort of pogrom.

Be afraid all you want. But the multi-ethnic nation you fear has already arrived. Better to recognize it and talk about it, than to clam up and ignore it.

It's not going away, quite the opposite. And avoiding the issue will only make whatever hurdles exist that much higher.

314 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:41:46pm

Let's look at it realistically. This is already demographically a different country than it was for our fathers and grandfathers but it was the same thing for them too. I know it sounds cheesy but I think one of the best things about growing up where I did was the diversity. It really prepared me to meet people from all over. I've had classmates from all over the place. I still remember a classmate of mine in 12th grade government. An Afghan immigrant who was so eager to learn about our form of government. My own brother's girlfriend is a Pervuian immigrant.

315 dragonath  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:41:53pm

Using modern right-wing viewpoints would inevitably lead one to believe that all other ethnicities live by similar right wing viewpoints. Imagine if everybody did.

Today I canvassed with a bunch of latino and black folks and I'm as white as paste. Hell yeah liberalism.

316 Interesting Times  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:44:09pm

re: #308 Dark_Falcon

Hell, no! As I said, I am afraid of the ethnic tensions often found in multi-ethnic nations.

Toronto and surrounding areas are some of the most multi-ethnic places on Earth, but I certainly don't see any significant tensions as a result. For the most part, everyone minds their own business and gets on with their lives. I love being in a racially diverse area. So many more food opportunities, for one!

317 palomino  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:47:32pm

re: #316 Interesting Times

Toronto and surrounding areas are some of the most multi-ethnic places on Earth, but I certainly don't see any significant tensions as a result. For the most part, everyone minds their own business and gets on with their lives. I love being in a racially diverse area. So many more food opportunities, for one!

Funny thing is, the guy you're responding to lives in Chicago, another of the more multi-cultural places on the planet (whites are nowhere near a majority in the very diverse Windy City). Like all big cities, it's got its problems. But just like Toronto, it hasn't turned into Zimbabwe.

318 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:47:55pm

re: #316 Interesting Times

Toronto and surrounding areas are some of the most multi-ethnic places on Earth, but I certainly don't see any significant tensions as a result. For the most part, everyone minds their own business and gets on with their lives. I love being in a racially diverse area. So many more food opportunities, for one!

Ha, so true about the food opportunities as silly as it sounds but one of my regular haunts in D.C is an Eritrean restaurant/bar. Cheap but quality beer and a good range of food.

319 prairiefire  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:50:34pm

re: #304 palomino

Yes, guilty as charged.

But what difference does it make?

I think it makes a difference to cognitive resonance. There are so many folks who are right leaning here, for a long time. It seems there is strength in cognitive numbers here in Missouri. Democrats were almost completely wiped out in local positions in 2010. Steel against steel.

320 allegro  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:50:42pm

re: #316 Interesting Times

Toronto and surrounding areas are some of the most multi-ethnic places on Earth, but I certainly don't see any significant tensions as a result. For the most part, everyone minds their own business and gets on with their lives. I love being in a racially diverse area. So many more food opportunities, for one!

I've mentioned before that I've recently had a need to get a number of official documents at city and county offices and seen first hand just how diverse Houston is. I have been in a very significant minority at every occasion. I even see it grocery shopping now. I feel no threat at all - quite the opposite.

321 alpuz  Sat, Oct 6, 2012 9:59:53pm

re: #314 HappyWarrior

I remember a 5th grade classmate from Ghana. Being from west-central Wisconsin he was the only black kid in my class at the time. The first day it snowed the whole class sat back and watched him freak out because he'd never seen snow fall from the sky. It was awesome. I love the fact that I grew up on a college campus and attended the elementary school that was attached.

322 wheat-dogg  Sun, Oct 7, 2012 4:12:30am

re: #246 Sheila Broflovski

I started watching the "Hunger Games." I don't what all the hype is about, I think it's pretty sucky so far.

If this movie is supposed to take place centuries in the future:

1. Why are they still freaking MINING COAL?
2. Why is everybody in "District 12" dressed like it's the 1940's? (OK I kind of get they want "The Reaping" to look like the Holocaust but still it's freaking lame)
3. The costumes on the people in "The Capitol" are really stupid looking. They all look like a combination of 18th-century France and a psychedelic Ringling Brothers.
4. Where is Maximus?

For a similar treatment of the future, see the first Dune movie, with Kyle MacLachlan. Both are trying to evoke pre-Revolutionary France, I suspect.

323 wheat-dogg  Sun, Oct 7, 2012 4:25:24am

re: #314 HappyWarrior

Let's look at it realistically. This is already demographically a different country than it was for our fathers and grandfathers but it was the same thing for them too. I know it sounds cheesy but I think one of the best things about growing up where I did was the diversity. It really prepared me to meet people from all over. I've had classmates from all over the place. I still remember a classmate of mine in 12th grade government. An Afghan immigrant who was so eager to learn about our form of government. My own brother's girlfriend is a Pervuian immigrant.

My folks grew up in NYC during the '20s and '30s. It was pretty multi-ethnic even then. Now that pattern has spread across America.

324 funky chicken  Sun, Oct 7, 2012 6:21:55am

re: #174 BongCrodny

It's also got Obama's approval rating among blacks at 35% positive, 57% negative.

It would take a lot of sugar to get me to swallow that one.

If they confined themselves to northern CO Springs and Tom Tancredo's wingnut district, it's possible. There's only a handful of African-Americans in those places, but they tend to be infected by the madness like the other folks. Some of them probably even work for Focus on the Family or other huge evangelical organizations which dominate northern CO Springs. We lived there for 4 years fairly recently. We went back and my son was super excited to see black folks walking into the Dick's Sporting Goods store down in the south side of the city.

We had moved to CO Springs from NJ, which is very diverse. My kids were little but they definitely noticed the lack of diversity. LOL. Anyway, it's possible their survey is technically "correct," but it doesn't mean there's a groundswell of support for Mitt Romney among African Americans.

325 Aye Pod  Sun, Oct 7, 2012 7:36:38am

re: #268 palomino

The spike you mention will only be more impactful due to age distribution. A disproportionately large number of Hispanics are under 18, while a disproportionately large number of whites are over 65. Not to be too crude about it, but with each passing day old white voters are being replaced by young minority voters. Thus I completely agree with your point about landslides...the only holdout strong red states would be conservative states with very small minority populations--Idaho, Alaska, etc.---mostly small states in the plains and rocky mountain regions.

Hush now with that sort of talk. For all you know there could be white people reading this thread - won't anyone think of their feelings?///


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