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403 comments
1 bratwurst  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:09:39pm
2 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:09:59pm
3 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:10:02pm

Whatever Biden was on, Obama needs to take before his next debate.

4 Tigger2  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:10:14pm

All in all I think it was a pretty good debate.

5 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:10:25pm

And like I said downstairs, all Matt Drudge can focus on is Biden's smile.

6 erik_t  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:10:26pm

Bitching about circumstantial nonsense OKIYAR

7 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:10:38pm

Until this year, I've never understood people who threaten to leave the country if a certain candidate wins.

I was a child during the 70's so I didn't go thru that War on Women.

8 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:10:40pm

Ryan didn't even give the appearance of having a clue. He's a Congressman for chrissake.
At least Palin had an excuse.

9 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:10:45pm

Mary Matalin looks like she wants to kill someone, as she's trying to convince everyone that tonight was a win for the Republicans.

10 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:11:27pm

This says it all:

11 Petero1818  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:12:01pm

re: #9 JamesWI

Mary Matalin looks like she wants to kill someone, as she's trying to convince everyone that tonight was a win for the Republicans.

To be fair that is Mary's "come hither" look.

12 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:12:02pm
13 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:12:09pm

Anyone else watching CNN, who is the wingnut hack on the far left who just talked about a minute ago?

14 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:12:34pm

re: #8 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Ryan didn't even give the appearance of having a clue. He's a Congressman for chrissake.
At least Palin had an excuse.

He had a clue, its just that Joe Biden did too. Biden didn't act like a befuddled old man, instead he went after Ryan early and often. He didn't do as well as others here think he did, IMO, but he did what he had to do.

15 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:12:36pm

America saw grandpa taking his "too big for his britches" grandson behind the woodshed.

Press can only see this poor, sweet young man getting brutalized by an angry old fart.

"Liberal" media, you say?

16 danarchy  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:13:11pm

re: #13 JamesWI

Anyone else watching CNN, who is the wingnut hack on the far left who just talked about a minute ago?

TV left or their left.

on the tv left is david gergen on their left is alex castellanos

17 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:13:29pm
18 Dazed  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:14:36pm

Piss off Wallace..Biden Wiped the floor with Ryan.

19 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:14:40pm

re: #15 Targetpractice

America saw grandpa taking his "too big for his britches" grandson behind the woodshed.

Press can only see this poor, sweet young man getting brutalized by an angry old fart.

"Liberal" media, you say?

Take note. Even Obama wins the next debate. The MSM will call it a draw and say he was mean to poor Willard.

20 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:15:19pm

re: #9 JamesWI

Mary Matalin looks like she wants to kill someone, as she's trying to convince everyone that tonight was a win for the Republicans.

As I said at the end of last thread, it feels real funny to say that I feel sorry for James Carville...but I do.

21 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:15:19pm

Glenn Greenwald post-debate comments:

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

This is one of those debates very difficult to judge if you are too immersed in politics. From both a substantive and stylistic perspective, Biden completely dominated the debate. He was far more passionate, authoritative, and aggressive than Ryan. It is a pure reversal of the first presidential debate but on steroids: Biden was actually more assertive and even more lively than Romney was, while Ryan was at times as listless and passive as Obama was.

The question is whether average, low-information viewers - also known as "undecideds" and "independents" - will find Biden's constant smirking, interrupting and obvious contempt for Ryan off-putting. That's possible - those types of viewers typically claim to dislike excess confrontation in politics, and what made Romney effective was that his aggression was restrained and respectful - but ultimately, Americans, their claims to the contrary notwithstanding, respond viscerally to alpha dominance in their political leaders.

Biden embodied that attribute, while Ryan often appeared sheepish, intimidated, and bullied. The feel of the debate was an elder, gruff, authoritative political leader running roughshod over a young, chastened, in-over-his-head neophyte. I have no idea how much any of this will matter, but the theatrics were overwhelmingly in Biden's favor, unless it's too confrontational for those watching.
---->Continued

22 erik_t  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:15:24pm

re: #19 moderatelyradicalliberal

Take note. Even Obama wins the next debate. The MSM will call it a draw and say he was mean to poor Willard.

That's the best case anyway, so fuck it. Shit in his cereal.

23 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:15:45pm

re: #17 diamonda2u

[Embedded content]

That's what people wanted to see last week, Obama calling Romney on his BS, point by point. Problem was that last week, Romney basically shed his far-right skin to return to being "moderate" Willard. Tonight, Ryan had to play pick-up for his boss and got his ass handed to him instead.

24 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:16:11pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

He had a clue, its just that Joe Biden did too. Biden didn't act like a befuddled old man, instead he went after Ryan early and often. He didn't do as well as others here think he did, IMO, but he did what he had to do.

When pinned down on specifics, Ryan didn't have a clue.
I never got his answer for what they would do differently in Iran, or Syria.
Biden stapled him to the wall with Afghanistan taking responsibility for their own future.
Sorry, but I disagree with you.

25 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:16:18pm

The King of the Manarchists has spoken.

26 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:16:22pm

Also note to liberals: GOPers will not contribute to any drop in morale by beating up on Paul Ryan and increase any damage already done.

27 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:16:33pm
28 danarchy  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:17:01pm

CNN/ORC poll 5% error

48% Ryan
44% Biden

29 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:17:05pm

re: #21 Destro

Greenwald is a horse's ass. Not worth reading. No matter who wins, Greenwald will still hate both of them because he hates America.

30 Petero1818  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:17:19pm

CNN ORC poll 48% Ryan / 44% Biden - +/_ 5%

31 krypto  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:17:24pm

I was just over at Fox Nation to check on their predictably angry reaction.

Yep, they are almost all doing intense whining about how "rude" Biden was and about Biden's smirk (which I thought Biden used very well as an effective Lie Alert).

Judging from their angry whining reaction, it certainly looks like Biden clearly won this one.

32 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:17:24pm

re: #20 MittDoesNotCompute

As I said at the end of last thread, it feels real funny to say that I feel sorry for James Carville...but I do.

I don't know why. He made the decision. It wasn't a shotgun wedding.

33 RadicalModerate  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:17:50pm

re: #28 danarchy

CNN/ORC poll 5% error

48% Ryan
44% Biden

Any word whether they only polled over-50 white men in the Southern US like the last poll was?

34 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:17:55pm

re: #21 Destro

Glenn Greenwald post-debate comments:

I confess. Sometimes Greenwald can be reasonable. :D

35 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:18:02pm

Orioles Yankees now going to the 12th

36 erik_t  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:18:08pm

re: #29 Dark_Falcon

he hates America.

Your party has used up the '[OPPONENT] hates America' quota for at least the next, I dunno, eight administrations. Sit down.

Greenwald, you too. You're a dumbass.

37 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:18:46pm
38 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:18:51pm

CNN's poll says that Ryan won 48% to 44%. Bullshit.

This is what it will look like if Obama wins next Tuesday. It will jazz up Democrats, but the MSM will do their best to stop any good story line for him and crush any momentum.

We must not let them.

39 JoyP  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:19:23pm

If she's complaining, we must be winning!

40 Majacita  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:19:54pm

re: #26 moderatelyradicalliberal

Also note to liberals: GOPers will not contribute to any drop in morale by beating up on Paul Ryan and increase any damage already done.

This was the worst of this week. I watched the debate. President Obama didn't fight back, but he didn't lie. He just didn't know how to react to the lying of Romney. You would have thought that he had conceded. The reaction of the liberal pundits was worse than the debate.

41 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:19:55pm

re: #30 Petero1818

CNN ORC poll 48% Ryan / 44% Biden - +/_ 5%

LIBERAL MEDIA!

42 dragonath  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:20:10pm

Just got back from watching the debate with a group of other people.

Ryan reminded me of Homer Stokes from "O Brother, Where Art Thou?"

43 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:20:48pm

Turning off MSNBC, sure it's the same everywhere.

idiot pussys

44 Cap'n Magic  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:20:52pm

In response to Turd Blossom's tweet:

I miss Jim Lehrer. @NewsHour #debate

@KarlRove I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elberberries. #vpdebate

@CptnMagic (10:04 PM - 11 Oct 12)

Rove just loathes the fact that a WOMAN controlled the flow of the debate and didn't roll over and play dead the way Lehrer did.

45 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:21:05pm

re: #40 Majacita

This was the worst of this week. I watched the debate. President Obama didn't fight back, but he didn't lie. He just didn't know how to react to the lying of Romney. You would have thought that he had conceded. The reaction of the liberal pundits was worse than the debate.

Truth.

46 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:22:17pm

re: #42 dragonath

Just got back from watching the debate with a group of other people.

Ryan reminded me of Homer Stokes from "O Brother, Where Art Thou?"

"I'm for the little man..."

47 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:22:19pm

No, but he drank Ryan's milkshake during it:

48 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:22:23pm

re: #44 Cap'n Magic

In response to Turd Blossom's tweet:

Rove just loathes the fact that a WOMAN controlled the flow of the debate and didn't roll over and play dead the way Lehrer did.

If nothing else, she did something we wanted moderators to do so often during the GOP debates and Lehrer completely failed to do last week: Demand answers. Not just let the candidates regurgitate canned talking points, but actually call on them to offer something more. Hearing her call on Ryan to offers specifics about the Romney tax plan was part of what made my night.

49 The Mongoose  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:22:35pm

I think the media narrative of tonight will be a draw, but with Biden accomplishing his mission of firing up the Democrat base. Of course I'm biased since that's also my opinion.

50 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:23:14pm

re: #36 erik_t

Your party has used up the '[OPPONENT] hates America' quota for at least the next, I dunno, eight administrations. Sit down.

Greenwald, you too. You're a dumbass.

I resort to saying someone hates America very rarely, and only after repeated hate spews from that person. I'm not some wingnut who throws the term around. But I've read a number of Greenwald's columns and I find them short on facts and long on attacks on the US. hence the label.

51 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:23:35pm

re: #49 The Mongoose

I think the media narrative of tonight will be a draw, but with Biden accomplishing his mission of firing up the Democrat base. Of course I'm biased since that's also my opinion.

And I agree, the media's gonna try to do everything they can to downplay this, while subtly trying to weave the narrative that Ryan "won" because of how "mean" Biden was.

52 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:24:27pm
53 Tigger2  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:24:49pm

re: #28 danarchy

CNN/ORC poll 5% error

48% Ryan
44% Biden

A poll on the CNN page has it Biden 66% Ryan 34%

54 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:24:55pm

Weird. All this time not once did I think about Romney, Obama, Biden, or Ryan being on drugs or booze.

55 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:24:58pm

re: #51 Targetpractice

Mean Joe Green Biden.

56 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:25:03pm

re: #51 Targetpractice

And I agree, the media's gonna try to do everything they can to downplay this, while subtly trying to weave the narrative that Ryan "won" because of how "mean" Biden was.

Is it sad that we have to rely on Jon Stewart to get an accurate take on the debate?

57 erik_t  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:25:15pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

I resort to saying someone hates America very rarely, and only after repeated hate spews from that person. I'm not some wingnut who throws the term around. But I've read a number of Greenwald's columns and I find them short on facts and long on attacks on the US. hence the label.

You also want to nuke Iran, so I'll take your opinions with a grain of salt larger than the sun. Actually that's not big enough.

58 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:25:17pm
59 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:25:34pm

Biden was mean, huh.
Did he call Ryan a lying little boy?
Cause he could have.

60 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:26:21pm

I know America. And Romney can still win this election.

This is not a positive assessment in every way.

Sad really.

61 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:26:38pm

re: #59 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Biden was mean, huh.
Did he call Ryan a lying little boy?
Cause he could have.

Oh, I've got more things I could call Ryan, but I'm not sure any of them are for polite company.

/

62 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:27:05pm

re: #59 Reverend Mother Ramallo

Biden was mean, huh.
Did he call Ryan a lying little boy?
Cause he could have.

I hear Paul Ryan's mommy released a statement about Medicare. How nice of her to defend her baby.

63 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:27:09pm

re: #60 Gus

I know America. And Romney can still win this election.

Honey Boo Boo approves of this message.

64 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:27:27pm

Surprise, Titans have the ball in the red zone with a chance to tie Steelers late in the 4th.

65 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:27:41pm

re: #63 freetoken

Honey Boo Boo approves of this message.

Now you've done it. The server will freeze.

66 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:28:02pm

re: #65 Gus

Now you've done it. The server will freeze.

Don't blame me this time.

67 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:28:24pm

re: #57 erik_t

You also want to nuke Iran, so I'll take your opinions with a grain of salt larger than the sun. Actually that's not big enough.

That sir, is untrue and you ought to know it. i said there was a circumstance in which i would consider using nuclear weapons vs Iran. And no time have I ever suggested that I wanted to nuke Iran nor that bombing Iran was a thing I wanted.

68 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:28:34pm

Hahahahaha:

69 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:28:50pm

re: #66 Destro

Don't blame me this time.

Yeah. That put me in a rotten mood a few times. :)

70 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:29:19pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

I resort to saying someone hates America very rarely, and only after repeated hate spews from that person. I'm not some wingnut who throws the term around. But I've read a number of Greenwald's columns and I find them short on facts and long on attacks on the US. hence the label.

I wouldn't go as far as 'hating America.' He...what's a good term here...I guess you could call him a liberal libertarian of sorts? Not sure what else fits. I actually enjoyed his writing when he first started out at...Unclaimed Territory was it? Once he started gaining attention and becoming popular, he just got too full of himself and his screeds never seemed grounded. Can't stand him now.

71 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:29:45pm

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

i said there was a circumstance in which i would consider using nuclear weapons vs Iran.

And that circumstance was a preemptive strike.

72 erik_t  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:30:01pm

Boy, I guess it's Butthurt Night from Mr. Falcon. I'm shocked.

Sometime I'll have to remember to ask how someone who preaches the need for defense procurement reform can support a candidate who argues for defense spending as a 4% floor (his emphasis) of GOP rather than on the basis of mission need.

I wonder what night he'll clarify this rather glaring mismatch.

73 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:30:05pm
74 danarchy  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:30:12pm

In the end I just don't think there is enough time between this debate and the next presidential debate tuesday for it to have much of an effect.

75 Destro  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:30:20pm

re: #70 Ghost of Tom Joad

I wouldn't go as far as 'hating America.' He...what's a good term here...I guess you could call him a liberal libertarian of sorts? Not sure what else fits. I actually enjoyed his writing when he first started out at...Unclaimed Territory was it? Once he started gaining attention and becoming popular, he just got too full of himself and his screeds never seemed grounded. Can't stand him now.

They probably said that about Jesus, too. Just saying.

76 LadyBehir  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:30:20pm
77 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:30:32pm
78 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:30:58pm

re: #62 moderatelyradicalliberal

I hear Paul Ryan's mommy released a statement about Medicare. How nice of her to defend her baby.

Mommy, that old man was mean to me!
-Policy wonk

79 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:32:39pm
80 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:32:42pm

re: #74 danarchy

In the end I just don't think there is enough time between this debate and the next presidential debate tuesday for it to have much of an effect.

I think it accomplished what it needed to accomplish, which was not only to stem the bleeding in the polls, but to get all that stuff out there on table that Obama failed to last week. Biden came tonight to lay it all out and he did exactly that. The lesson of the night: Ryan kept talking, but he didn't have any answers to the questions posed.

81 Cap'n Magic  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:33:02pm

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

And exactly what would that be? Iran has had both the British and the USA overthrow their duly elected government.

82 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:33:09pm

re: #76 LadyBehir

Ryan totally looks like?

With that hat and goofy look on his face, all I can think of is Sean Astin's character in 50 First Dates when he has that horrible lisp and is taking steroids.

Image: sean_astin_fifty_first_date10.jpg

83 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:33:19pm

re: #70 Ghost of Tom Joad

I wouldn't go as far as 'hating America.' He...what's a good term here...I guess you could call him a liberal libertarian of sorts? Not sure what else fits. I actually enjoyed his writing when he first started out at...Unclaimed Territory was it? Once he started gaining attention and becoming popular, he just got too full of himself and his screeds never seemed grounded. Can't stand him now.

Greenwald's a bit of a libertarian, utopian, fundamentalist. Kind of like Andrew Sullivan. No matter how you classify them they're both idiots and neither is even remotely connected to anything close to reality.

84 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:34:35pm
85 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:35:02pm
86 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:35:09pm

Science!

87 erik_t  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:35:59pm

re: #85 Gus

Twitter science. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

88 efuseakay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:36:14pm

re: #86 Gus

Science!

I couldn't believe it when I heard the words "reason and science" come out of Ryan's mouth. lol

89 danarchy  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:36:33pm

re: #86 Gus

Science!

Speaking of which, kind of disappointed there haven't really been any real questions about science at either debate.

90 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:36:41pm

re: #87 erik_t

Twitter science. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Eh. Once you start getting old everything begins to hurt this stuff is like... fun.

91 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:37:04pm
92 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:37:19pm

Speaking of mothers defending their sons everyone should familiarize themselves with Barbara Doherty, who recently told Romney to stop dry humping her dead son's corpse.

The mother of a former Navy SEAL killed in Libya has called on Mitt Romney to stop talking about her son during his political campaign.
A spokesman for the Republican presidential candidate says Romney will respect her wishes.

...

"I don't trust Romney. He shouldn't make my son's death part of his political agenda. It's wrong to use these brave young men, who wanted freedom for all, to degrade Obama," Barbara Doherty said.

93 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:37:28pm

Wonder where Ojoe is tonight.... Not here talking about "Alpha Males!!!!!" Probably because his "Alpha Male" looked like a whimpering little boy out there.

94 Big Joe  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:37:30pm

re: #85 Gus

Biden is now winning CNBC, heh.

95 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:37:46pm

re: #94 Big Joe

Biden is now winning CNBC, heh.

Shhh. Quiet.

//

96 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:37:53pm
97 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:38:28pm

All that weight lifting for nuthin' !

98 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:38:50pm

Stupid question: how do I look at all the posts I've favorited?

99 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:39:02pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

Greenwald's a bit of a libertarian, utopian, fundamentalist. Kind of like Andrew Sullivan. No matter how you classify them they're both idiots and neither is even remotely connected to anything close to reality.

Sullivan and Greenwald are nothing at all alike in temperament or ideology. Moreover, Sullivan is about as smart as people come, even if he is given to the occasional histrionic screed. (He trained in classical debate in his college career in England. I would not care to take him on in anything I was not critically well versed in)

In truth, his reaction to the Presidential debate last week was closer to the reality then many folks wanted to admit. Obama's drop in the polls was pretty damned bad, and Sullivan was correct on the optics of it.

100 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:39:18pm

re: #97 Reverend Mother Ramallo

All that weight lifting for nuthin' !

101 mr.fusion  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:39:24pm

You're so weak and no one respects you!

(now stop being so mean to us!)

102 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:39:28pm

Biden used the classic case of bullying! This would be illegal in normal circumstances.
-- GOP

103 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:39:39pm

re: #94 Big Joe

Biden is now winning CNBC, heh.

104 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:40:25pm

re: #100 jaunte

[Embedded content]

"America needs a strong, manly leader like us...now stop bullying me!!"

105 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:40:56pm

The butthurt is strong on the right tonight:

106 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:41:15pm

re: #98 Mocking Jay

Stupid question: how do I look at all the posts I've favorited?

Nevermind. Found it.

107 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:41:41pm
108 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:41:49pm

Now McConnell's quoted as saying that American needs a VP who's "under control." Left unsaid: Whose control he should be under.

109 erik_t  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:42:20pm

re: #72 erik_t

Ten minutes later, Dark Falcon is still here. I guess he's wholly uninterested in explaining how he can support defense procurement reform, but support a candidate who is so uninterested in procurement reform that he specifies appropriate spending as a percent-GDP rather than based on actual need.

I'll have to ask again another day. Maybe then he'll answer the question.

/lol

110 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:42:33pm

Interesting that CNN isn't releasing the crosstabs on that supposed ORC registered voter poll.

111 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:43:48pm
112 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:44:25pm

CNN is just a fucking joke. I remember when they used to have at least a little credibility. That was a pretty long time ago.

113 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:44:39pm
114 dragonath  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:45:15pm

I rather liked Biden's response to Ryan's whole litmus test diversion.

115 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:45:24pm

re: #112 JamesWI

CNN is just a fucking joke. I remember when they used to have at least a little credibility. That was a pretty long time ago.

They had their spines ripped out after being called "liberal" one too many times during the Bush years.

116 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:47:22pm

Orioles Yankees going to 13th. Looks like they are just going to keep playing until tomorrow.

117 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:48:21pm

re: #110 goddamnedfrank

Interesting that CNN isn't releasing the crosstabs on that supposed ORC registered voter poll.

Since when did Orcs register to vote? Are they supporting Sauron or Saruman? I tend to be more of a Mordor type myself, but the Orthanc deforestration program has a lot of supporters in the Dunland vicinity. You might see if the "toothless, axe wielding mercenary maniac who hates Rohan" voter category has been polled sufficiently...

;D

118 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:48:38pm
119 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:48:40pm

And the Titans are on the verge of beating the Steelers.

120 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:48:40pm

Recently hired as a political consultant at CNN: Frank Luntz.

That speaks volumes. Luntz is the ultimate right wing flack.

121 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:48:54pm

re: #115 Targetpractice

They had their spines gonads ripped out after being called "liberal" one too many times during the Bush years.

Important distinction.

123 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:49:16pm

re: #110 goddamnedfrank

Interesting that CNN isn't releasing the crosstabs on that supposed ORC registered voter poll.

Still no crosstabs so there's no way to look at age or ethnic distribution, but the special notes give us one clue:

SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public.

124 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:49:25pm
125 dragonath  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:49:27pm

re: #115 Targetpractice

My theory is that CNN had its guts ripped out by AOL after the Time Warner buyout. Ted Turner resigned soon after it started going to hell.

126 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:49:56pm

re: #86 Gus

Science!

Speaking of which, I wonder how many people really watched this thing tonight.

Last week, the ratings (preliminary) looked like this:

[Link: tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com...]
[Link: tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com...]


The second link are the cable ratings. Note that it is estimated that many more people watched FoxNC than watched CNN (10.5 to 6.05 million), yet the ratings had CNN beating Fox, 2.1 to 1.9.

Why is this? Because the ratings are for the audience about which the advertisers care - 18 to 49 year olds - as they are the most likely to respond to targeted advertising (except for Medicare supplemental insurance or denture products, etc. ), and FoxNC has a very old audience (unlike the Fox OTA broadcast network which targets the opposite audience.)

Anyway, on all networks combined, probably a bit over 40 million Americans watched part of the first debate (the "viewership" numbers don't mean they watched the entire 90 minutes.) The follow-up programs get about 2/3rds of those numbers.

That means less than a third of voters watched (at least part) of that thing last week (I refuse to call it a real debate.)

And furthermore, who watched it? My suspicion is that those who are already highly partisan or otherwise emotionally invested in this election were the viewers, and those I'll label the "casual" vote probably didn't care enough to tune in.

Taking all of that into account, what were the candidates trying to accomplish tonight?

I suspect Biden really had one mission - reach the marginal voter in Ohio and Penn with the "47%" message, to play on their inherent distrust of the rich. And with Biden's talking straight into the camera about Medicare and SS, he was specifically targeting the nursing home crowd in Florida.

That's why Biden (and everybody else) ignores issues which dedicated activists lament - such as climate change. So many issues, even important ones, just aren't game changers in American politics, and so they are ignored.

127 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:50:28pm

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

Still no crosstabs so there's no way to look at age or ethnic distribution, but the special notes give us one clue:

-------

129 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:51:12pm
130 erik_t  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:51:23pm

re: #122 Mocking Jay

Well shit, no wonder he tucked tail and left for the night.

131 erik_t  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:51:48pm
133 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:52:12pm
134 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:53:02pm
135 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:53:20pm

re: #129 Gus

# now trending.

136 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:53:46pm

re: #132 Targetpractice

Ah, thanks for the reminder.

So, do you like your schadenfreude warm or chilled?

Best served cold...

137 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:54:12pm
138 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:54:30pm

Gonna hit the sack in a moment, lizards. My spouse is very, very ill with an abdominal infection and some other issues and she is in the hospital here in Greensboro until Saturday. I will be heading back tomorrow to keep her company. Any prayers and positive thoughts would be appreciated. She has a week of school to make up (she got sick on Sunday) and that is going to be rough.

Thanks, everybody.

139 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:54:33pm

re: #136 Mocking Jay

Best served cold...

And it's very cold...in spaaace.

140 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:54:38pm

Orioles score!

141 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:54:41pm

re: #135 jaunte

# now trending.

The Rise of the Octothorps.

142 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:55:36pm

Sorry to hear that, hope she gets well soon.

143 Lidane  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:55:36pm

re: #122 Mocking Jay

People have always underestimated Joe Biden. They think he's just a gaffe machine that stumbles around and drools everywhere like an over-excited Labrador. They forget he's got three decades in the Senate and a Rolodex at home that people would kill for.

The guy's a fuckin' shark. He proved it tonight.

144 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:55:57pm

re: #128 JamesWI

Ahem.........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Why, I was thinking of that little gem just this very evening.

145 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:56:18pm

re: #142 aagcobb

Sorry to hear that, hope she gets well soon.

Thanks.

Good night, all. See you tomorrow night.

146 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:57:54pm
147 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:58:12pm

re: #143 Lidane

People have always underestimated Joe Biden. They think he's just a gaffe machine that stumbles around and drools everywhere like an over-excited Labrador. They forget he's got three decades in the Senate and a Rolodex at home that people would kill for.

The guy's a fuckin' shark. He proved it tonight.

Biden engaged tonight in the sort of bare-knuckled brawling that separates the movers-and-shakers in Congress from the seat-fillers. Ryan got a crash course in why you don't fuck with the old-timers.

148 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:58:15pm

re: #131 erik_t

#RepublicanEconomicSpecifics

Huh? There are no results for th...

Oh.

149 danarchy  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:58:20pm

re: #127 diamonda2u

-------

[Embedded content]

what was the result of the cbs poll?

150 dragonath  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 8:58:33pm

re: #134 Gus

[Embedded content]

I know right wingers like this kind of stuff but that picture comes off more like Alfred E. Neumann than Vladimir Putin.

151 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:00:53pm

Treasure trove of coins found in Denmark

A treasure of coins buried around 854 A.D. in the Viking era has been discovered on Denmark's Bornholm Island in the Baltic Sea, the island's museum reported.

The 152 silver Arab and Persian coins were forged in different parts of the Middle East and represent the single-biggest collection of Arab coins dating from the period to be found in Denmark, Xinhua news agency reported the Bornholm Museum as saying.

[...]

SHARIAH!!

152 The Mongoose  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:01:00pm

re: #149 danarchy

what was the result of the cbs poll?

I believe it said Biden 50 Ryan 31 Tie 19. And I'm hearing CNBC might have one showing an equally big win for Ryan, but can't confirm yet.

153 The Mongoose  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:03:14pm

The CNBC numbers I heard were Ryan 56 Biden 36 Tie 8. But I'm not convinced this was a scientific poll and there's been no follow-up, so I'm going to count it as suspect for now.

154 diamonda2u  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:03:31pm
155 The Mongoose  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:05:11pm

So accepting the CBS and CNN polls as real, the Official Mongoose VP Debate Poll Aggregator shows a score of Biden 47, Ryan 40.

156 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:06:15pm

re: #154 diamonda2u

Biden is supposed to be goofy, but Ryan's the one who has to be reminded to drink enough water.

157 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:07:32pm

re: #154 diamonda2u

[Embedded content]

Nervous reflex.

158 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:08:32pm

Yankees pinch hitting for A-Rod again with 2 outs in bottom of the 13th down a run. How the mighty have fallen.

159 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:09:08pm

Scientists find spot where Caesar died

Archaeologists said on Oct 10 they believe they have found the exact spot in Rome where Julius Caesar was stabbed to death on March 15, 44 BC.

The stabbing of the dictator by Roman senators was recorded by ancient historians and dramatized by William Shakespeare who gave Caesar the last words: “Et tu Brute? Then fall, Caesar.” Now, a team from the Spanish National Research Council say they have unearthed evidence that, they believe, reveals precisely where the attack took place.

They say they have found a concrete structure, three meters wide and two meters high, that was erected by his adoptive son and successor, Augustus. After taking power himself, Augustus ordered the structure be placed exactly over the place where the attack took place so as to condemn the slaying of his father, the scientists said.

[...]

Maybe someone will put up a stone marker on the campus of Centre College in Danville, KY, to mark the exact spot where a 70 year old man gave a metaphorical spanking to an up and coming ruler?

160 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:09:14pm

Orioles win!

161 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:09:37pm

re: #159 freetoken

Scientists find spot where Caesar died

Maybe someone will put up a stone marker on the campus of Centre College in Danville, KY, to mark the exact spot where a 70 year old man gave a metaphorical spanking to an up and coming ruler?

Sure they did.

//

162 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:10:32pm
163 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:10:46pm

Now I can go to bed happy as the evil overlords were defeated by the forces of good and right. Night all!

164 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:11:11pm

re: #162 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

He'd be married?

165 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:11:17pm

re: #152 The Mongoose

I believe it said Biden 50 Ryan 31 Tie 19. And I'm hearing CNBC might have one showing an equally big win for Ryan, but can't confirm yet.

The CNBC "poll" was just an online poll on their front page. Wingnuts spammed it first, then Kos posted a link to it and liberals put Biden ahead.

In other words, as far from scientific as it gets.

166 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:11:57pm

re: #165 JamesWI

The CNBC "poll" was just an online poll on their front page. Wingnuts spammed it first, then Kos posted a link to it and liberals put Biden ahead.

In other words, as far from scientific as it gets.

The only reason Biden won that one is because "Ron Paul" wasn't an option.

167 Kragar  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:11:59pm

re: #162 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

Isn't there one of those commandment things about lying?

168 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:12:29pm

re: #165 JamesWI

The CNBC "poll" was just an online poll on their front page. Wingnuts spammed it first, then Kos posted a link to it and liberals put Biden ahead.

In other words, as far from scientific as it gets.

It's the same type of "poll" from CNBC that showed something like 80% of Americans agreeing with Romney's 47% comments back when they were first released.

169 efuseakay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:12:35pm

re: #162 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

Birthers and Ringers, oh my!

170 The Mongoose  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:13:40pm

re: #165 JamesWI

The CNBC "poll" was just an online poll on their front page. Wingnuts spammed it first, then Kos posted a link to it and liberals put Biden ahead.

In other words, as far from scientific as it gets.

Yeah, I thought it might be something like that.

171 KiTA  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:14:59pm

re: #143 Lidane

People have always underestimated Joe Biden. They think he's just a gaffe machine that stumbles around and drools everywhere like an over-excited Labrador. They forget he's got three decades in the Senate and a Rolodex at home that people would kill for.

The guy's a fuckin' shark. He proved it tonight.

It's all part of the Republican Bubble. The goofy Biden in their brain has little to do with the real Biden, just like the invisible "ghetto Obama" in the chair that Eastwood screamed at has nothing to do with President Obama.

172 The Mongoose  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:16:03pm

CNN's focus groups lined up with their poll for the most part: Ryan 32, Biden 32, Tie 35. It would be nice to get a third source (beyond CBS and CNN) given that their results are so far apart.

173 labman57  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:16:40pm

Ryan's foot-in-mouth moment:
"I once met someone whose family died in a car crash."

Biden's poignant response: "MY family died in a car crash ..."

174 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:16:47pm
175 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:16:51pm

TPM pointed out two big take-aways from tonight. The first was Ryan totally being unable to answer a guarantee that those making less than $100,000/yr will not see their mortgage deduction go down in the affirmative.

And second was Ryan declaring that the campaign wants to relive the Bush years by pushing the wildly unpopular privatization of Social Security.

176 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:17:28pm

re: #173 labman57

Ryan's foot-in-mouth moment:
"I once met someone whose family died in a car crash."

Biden's poignant response: "MY family died in a car crash ..."

Oh dear, please tell me Ryan didn't say that....
:/

177 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:18:23pm

Republicans are out in force - "HE WAS LAUGHING!!!!!!!!"

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

178 Batman  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:18:52pm

re: #176 Varek Raith

Oh dear, please tell me Ryan didn't say that....
:/

Worse. He recounted a story recounted to him about Romney once meeting someone whose family died in a car crash. In response to a question about Romney wanting the auto industry to fail.

179 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:21:30pm

re: #175 Targetpractice

TPM pointed out two big take-aways from tonight. The first was Ryan totally being unable to answer a guarantee that those making less than $100,000/yr will not see their mortgage deduction go down in the affirmative.

And second was Ryan declaring that the campaign wants to relieve the Bush years by pushing the wildly unpopular privatization of Social Security.

Biden made it clear where that S.S. money would be now if people had put that money in the market.
Excellent!

180 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:21:36pm

re: #177 JamesWI

Republicans are out in force - "HE WAS LAUGHING!!!!!!!!"

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

That's all they really got to go on. They can't say like last week that Ryan dominated the debate, because he didn't. Can't say he got the most hits, because Biden was knocking him around the room. Can't say anything but "Biden was mean/crazy!"

181 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:21:47pm

re: #177 JamesWI

Republicans are out in force - "HE WAS LAUGHING!!!!!!!!"

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Water is wet. :)

182 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:22:07pm

re: #172 The Mongoose

CNN's focus groups lined up with their poll for the most part: Ryan 32, Biden 32, Tie 35. It would be nice to get a third source (beyond CBS and CNN) given that their results are so far apart.

CNN's party ID split was 33%R 31%D. Even the biggest "skewed polls" conspiracy nuts don't think the Republicans will have an advantage in Party ID.

If they were to release their cross tabs, I would wager that they did the exact same thing they did last time - That is, nearly all of their poll respondents will likely be from the South, white, and over the age of 50. Last time, their poll was so bad, they didn't even have enough people outside of those groups (White, Southern, over 50) to include any breakdowns. Not enough minorities, not enough people outside of the South, and not enough young people.

I don't know whether it's laziness, incompetence, or if they are actively trying to stack the polls for some reason. But it's pretty clear that they are doing incredibly shitty work.

183 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:22:13pm

re: #181 Gus

Water is wet. :)

Horse hockey!

184 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:22:33pm

A classic case of academia bureaucracy running amok?

Gallaudet University Places Diversity Provost on Leave for Signing Petition to Put Marriage Equality on Ballot

An administrator at Gallaudet University has been placed on paid leave after it was revealed that she had signed a petition to put Maryland's marriage equality law on the ballot (Question 6), the Washington Blade reports.

Dr. Angela McCaskill, the employee placed on leave, serves as the associate provost of diversity and inclusion.

The story broke in a story on the website PlanetDeafQueer, which said, in part:

A Gallaudet faculty member, who at this time wishes to remain anonymous, noticed Dr. McCaskill’s name, address and signature on the anti-gay marriage petition and inquired about it. When confronted by the faculty member, Dr. McCaskill confirmed that she had in fact signed the petition and explained that she had done so while at church, after her preacher had preached against gay marriage. As she was leaving, her husband pointed to the petition and she signed it without giving it further thought.

An official complaint was filed with the University last week by the mentioned faculty member and a meeting was held on Friday with Gallaudet University President, Dr. Alan Hurwitz.

[...]

The article notes that a major pro-gay marriage outfit opposes the forced leave of the administrator.

Yet, it strikes me that the college president is acting in that stereotyped manner of the hyper-sensitive academia executive, who jumps anytime someone complains.

185 Mattand  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:22:35pm

re: #173 labman57

Ryan's foot-in-mouth moment:
"I once met someone whose family died in a car crash."

Biden's poignant response: "MY family died in a car crash ..."

re: #176 Varek Raith

Oh dear, please tell me Ryan didn't say that....
:/

Yeah, I don't think that was an innocent mistake on Ryan's part.

186 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:23:35pm

Dammit.
I had to work.
Missed it.

187 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:24:27pm

Biden kicked Ryan's ass.

The end.

188 The Mongoose  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:24:45pm

re: #182 JamesWI

CNN's party ID split was 33%R 31%D. Even the biggest "skewed polls" conspiracy nuts don't think the Republicans will have an advantage in Party ID.

If they were to release their cross tabs, I would wager that they did the exact same thing they did last time - That is, nearly all of their poll respondents will likely be from the South, white, and over the age of 50. Last time, their poll was so bad, they didn't even have enough people outside of those groups (White, Southern, over 50) to include any breakdowns. Not enough minorities, not enough people outside of the South, and not enough young people.

I don't know whether it's laziness, incompetence, or if they are actively trying to stack the polls for some reason. But it's pretty clear that they are doing incredibly shitty work.

I'm not at all surprised by that split...they were sampling registered voters who watched the debates. Given who watches debates, I would expect to see more independents and fewer democrats in such a sample, which is exactly what they got.

189 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:24:49pm

When Ryan mentioned Biden's son, who is in the military, I thought my hubby was gonna jump into the tv and punch him.
LOL

190 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:25:06pm

re: #186 Varek Raith

Dammit.
I had to work.
Missed it.

Ha. I beat you. I was playing soccer with really cute little kids.

191 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:25:08pm

Got a wingnut elsewhere who declared Biden an "asshole" and Ryan a "gentleman," thus he believes that the latter won the debate because the former's debate performance won't win over moderate voters.

I must say, I admire them for the ability to twist their minds into pretzels like that.

192 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:25:08pm

re: #187 Gus

Biden kicked Ryan's ass.

The end.

Yeah, but!

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:25:27pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

I resort to saying someone hates America very rarely, and only after repeated hate spews from that person. I'm not some wingnut who throws the term around. But I've read a number of Greenwald's columns and I find them short on facts and long on attacks on the US. hence the label.

Mostly, I think Greenwald loves Greenwald. Who he hates depends on what most polishes that love.

194 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:25:30pm

re: #192 Varek Raith

Yeah, but!

He was mean!

195 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:25:59pm

re: #181 Gus

Water is wet. :)

water is what water is. whether it is wet or not depends on the tester of said liquid H2O.

//

196 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:26:23pm

re: #194 Gus

He was mean!

Lol.
So that's the RW excuse for the loss...
Shocked!

197 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:26:26pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

Mostly, I think Greenwald loves Greenwald. Who he hates depends on what most polishes that love.

I see no one noticed my 25.

198 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:26:49pm

re: #181 Gus

Water is wet. :)

But why isn't it raining here today, like the NWS promised?

199 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:27:27pm

re: #197 Gus

I see no one noticed my 25.

Your 27 caused information overload. :p

200 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:27:34pm

re: #181 Gus

Water is wet. :)

Not in Wingerland.
The sky ain't blue either.

201 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:27:57pm

re: #198 freetoken

But why isn't it raining here today, like the NWS promised?

Given that two of my boys are camping this weekend, I can handle the postponement of the rain.

202 danarchy  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:28:23pm

re: #182 JamesWI

I don't know whether it's laziness, incompetence, or if they are actively trying to stack the polls for some reason. But it's pretty clear that they are doing incredibly shitty work.

I think it is just a matter of trying to get a poll done in half an hour. I think they pretty much have to take what they get.

203 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:28:27pm

re: #199 boxhead

Your 27 caused information overload. :p

Didn't think of that. I actually exceeded my Twitter limit just now.

[Puts hands in pockets.]

204 gwangung  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:28:59pm

re: #194 Gus

He was mean!

Well, that's because Joe was in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

205 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:29:24pm

re: #204 gwangung

Well, that's because Joe was in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Tis but a scratch!

206 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:29:25pm

The Princess has decided where she is going to college.

[Link: monstersuniversity.com...]

207 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:29:27pm

re: #204 gwangung

Well, that's because Joe was in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Ryan was awful.

208 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:29:31pm

re: #203 Gus

LOL

209 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:29:49pm

Chris Matthews said, (and the other people on the panel nodded) - The guy leading the opposition in Iran wants a nuclear Iran.

Didn't know that. Obama/Biden should use that when Romney/Ryan try to go on the offensive about how we're "not doing enough."

210 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:29:58pm

re: #203 Gus

Didn't think of that. I actually exceeded my Twitter limit just now.

[Puts hands in pockets.]

So...
You broke twitter?
Awesome!
/

211 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:30:46pm

re: #210 Varek Raith

So...
You broke twitter?
Awesome!
/

Yep. Window closed. Watching car accidents on Liveleak now.

212 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:30:48pm

re: #202 danarchy

I think it is just a matter of trying to get a poll done in half an hour. I think they pretty much have to take what they get.

A guy on Twitter said he was a part of that poll. He said they called yesterday to set it up and make sure he'd respond. So they weren't rushed. They actually took their time and made such a shitty poll.

213 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:30:50pm

Paul Ryan didn’t prepare for Laughing Joe Biden in debate prep

"Our chief weapons are surprise and grins..."

214 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:31:39pm

re: #203 Gus

Didn't think of that. I actually exceeded my Twitter limit just now.

[Puts hands in pockets.]

There's a Twitter limit? Or a limit on here with how many tweets you can embed?

215 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:31:40pm

re: #211 Gus

Yep. Window closed. Watching car accidents on Liveleak now.

Liveleak.
Heh.
Guilty!

216 The Mongoose  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:32:05pm

re: #212 JamesWI

A guy on Twitter said he was a part of that poll. He said they called yesterday to set it up and make sure he'd respond. So they weren't rushed. They actually took their time and made such a shitty poll.

It wasn't shitty. It was a poll of debate watchers, and not meant to be a proxy for the general electorate. They've said that a few times tonight, actually.

217 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:32:15pm

re: #211 Gus

Yep. Window closed. Watching car accidents on Liveleak now.

You need a hobby.

218 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:32:17pm

Sooo.
Why did you downding my #59 jamesfirecat?
Just curious.

219 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:32:28pm

LOL....Romney and the Republican Super PACS are wasting money buying tons of ads on MSNBC after the debate.

Incompetence.

220 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:32:35pm

re: #215 Varek Raith

Liveleak.
Heh.
Guilty!

Right meow? Yeah. Some guy got hit by a car and gets back up all nimbly bimbly. :)

221 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:32:50pm

Yep, I think Biden was mean. I don't have a problem with that. If you have to confront burglars and thieves, an attack dog can be very handy. Here we have miscreants who intend to loot the whole country, and Biden is the junkyard dog of politicians.

People who think the Earth is 6000 years old don't need to have their man in the White House. Neither do conspira-loons who claim the Muslim Brotherhood is secretly taking us over or that global climate change is a hoax. I approve of anything legal Biden and Obama can do to stop them.

222 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:33:21pm

re: #220 Gus

Right meow? Yeah. Some guy got hit by a car and gets back up all nimbly bimbly. :)

Fuck you car!

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:33:54pm

re: #197 Gus

I see no one noticed my 25.

Forgive me. Duly noted.

224 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:34:18pm

re: #216 The Mongoose

It wasn't shitty. It was a poll of debate watchers, and not meant to be a proxy for the general electorate. They've said that a few times tonight, actually.

But they're presenting it as evidence that the debate was a "tie." A poll that heavily over-samples Republicans comes up with a pro-Republican result. And they are trying to play that up as objective evidence that no one really won this debate.

225 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:34:51pm

Biden wins.
Orioles win.
Life is good.

Good night all.

226 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:35:24pm

re: #224 JamesWI

But they're presenting it as evidence that the debate was a "tie." A poll that heavily over-samples Republicans comes up with a pro-Republican result. And they are trying to play that up as objective evidence that no one really won this debate.

Yeah, look at their homepage.

227 dragonath  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:35:31pm

re: #221 Shiplord Kirel

I wish more people thought like you.

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:35:44pm

re: #221 Shiplord Kirel

People who think the Earth is 6000 years old don't need to have their man in the White House.

May I comment that it's just plain weird when their man is a Catholic, and has no actual theological reason to think that?

229 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:35:49pm

re: #213 jaunte

Paul Ryan didn’t prepare for Laughing Joe Biden in debate prep

"Our chief weapons are surprise and grins..."

Reading the comments is a hoot. The butthurt is totally evident, with all the wingnuts whining that Biden was "unprofessional," "rude," and "senile."

They also all think Ryan totally gave a great performance, ran rings around Biden, and "owned" the debate.

230 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:36:08pm
...But in the end, specifics were Ryan’s undoing. Raddatz lowered the bar as far as it could possibly go, and Ryan couldn’t get over it. “Can you declare anything off-limits?” she asked.

“Yeah, we’re saying close loopholes on high-income people,” Ryan replied.

“Can you guarantee that no one making less than $100,000 will have a mortgage — their mortgage deduction impacted? Guarantee?” Biden pressed. Ryan could not, and changed the subject.
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

No wonder they're complaining about Raddatz. She stayed on topic and asked followup questions.

231 The Mongoose  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:36:27pm

re: #224 JamesWI

But they're presenting it as evidence that the debate was a "tie." A poll that heavily over-samples Republicans comes up with a pro-Republican result. And they are trying to play that up as objective evidence that no one really won this debate.

Among people who watched it, the debate was a tie, unless the poll was an outlier or their sampling methodology was flawed. On the other hand, by the same measure, undecideds who watched the debate thought Biden won (as per the CBS poll).

232 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:37:10pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

Forgive me. Duly noted.

Yeah, it was about Him. The mighty self-anointed one.

233 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:37:26pm

re: #230 jaunte

No wonder they're complaining about Raddatz. She stayed on topic and asked followup questions.

Yeah, she was the exact opposite of Lehrer, so of course they're pissed. Republican men like it when their women don't speak unless spoken to.

234 Pawn of the Oppressor  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:37:56pm

re: #181 Gus

Water is wet. :)

Biden was just doing what everybody SHOULD be doing to those two clowns... Marginalizing them, and laughing them off the stage, back to mom's basement where they belong.

235 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:39:11pm

Biden did what Biden was supposed to do. The fact that so many criticized his smirk I find interesting. Why is the the Dems must be perfect in behavior while the GOP can lie their asses off and it is OK as long as it was done with style? I truly loath liars when the Country is involved, when others are involved, when the fabricators stand to gain at the expense of others, etc , etc...

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:39:30pm

re: #233 Targetpractice

Yeah, she was the exact opposite of Lehrer, so of course they're pissed. Republican men like it when their women don't speak unless spoken to.

No, partisans of all sorts don't like it when moderators hold their candidate's feet to the fire.

"Unladylike" is a convenient label to hurl at an offending lady moderator.

237 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:39:35pm

re: #234 Pawn of the Oppressor

Biden was just doing what everybody SHOULD be doing to those two clowns... Marginalizing them, and laughing them off the stage, back to mom's basement where they belong.

Ryan was stammering at one point. In the end Biden's voice was tired. Then, Ryan's closing statement locked mechanical and goofy. Like a community college class president was delivering his closing lines. Others thought he looked like a televangelist.

238 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:40:36pm
239 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:40:48pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

No, partisans of all sorts don't like it when moderators hold their candidate's feet to the fire.

"Unladylike" is a convenient label to hurl at an offending lady moderator.

That's just it, I can't say Lehrer held Obama's feet to the fire, because he was a non-entity. He was totally non-confrontational to the point where it might as well have been Romney and Obama trading barbs in a bar.

240 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:42:07pm

re: #238 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

The Earth is 6,000 years old.

241 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:42:44pm

"I love my friend here. I'm not allowed to show letters here, but go on our website. He sent me two letters saying, by the way, can you send me some stimulus money for companies here in the state of Wisconsin?"

242 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:43:07pm

After you die you get to live rent free, with heating, air conditioning, and entertainment for billions and billions of years.

243 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:43:12pm

re: #240 Gus

The Earth is 6,000 years old.

According to GOP blogs Biden is older than that... How does that work? LOL

244 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:43:46pm

Apparently the best the GOP can say tonight is that Biden rattled Ryan, but didn't get him to break down. So that counts as a "win" in their books or a "tie" in the press'.

245 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:43:54pm

re: #243 boxhead

According to GOP blogs Biden is older than that... How does that work? LOL

He showed them. Biden was the janitor. Ryan was the mop.

246 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:43:58pm

re: #242 Gus

and entertainment

The downside: the entertainment is all self-taught harpists.

247 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:44:28pm

re: #238 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

The Republican Party has a way of just shutting that whole thing down.

248 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:44:45pm
249 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:45:08pm

re: #246 jaunte

The downside: the entertainment is all self-taught harpists.

Heaven would be cool as long as they allow smoking, sex, and booze. Oh, and some Frank Sinatra music piped in.

250 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:45:08pm

re: #245 Gus

He showed them. Biden was the janitor. Ryan was the mop.

uhhh... never mind... way too many unsavory comments came to mind over this one based on qualities of mops and such... LOL

251 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:45:29pm

re: #248 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

Sounds like that's a scene from a movie that I'm having trouble placing.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:45:43pm

re: #242 Gus

After you die you get to live rent free, with heating, air conditioning, and entertainment for billions and billions of years.

'There'll be AC in the sky when we die' doesn't scan especially well.

253 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:46:02pm

re: #250 boxhead

uhhh... never mind... way too many unsavory comments came to mind over this one based on qualities of mops and such... LOL

Sorry man. Didn't think mops would hit so close to home. Could happen I suppose. ;)

254 blueraven  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:46:16pm

What I loved the most was that Biden kept repeating; "These are the facts", and then he told the truth.

255 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:47:03pm

re: #254 blueraven

What I loved the most was that Biden kept repeating; "These are the facts", and then he told the truth.

And he managed to do it without once using the word "literally!"

256 jaunte  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:47:33pm

Charles P. Pierce:

...the difference between Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan?
Lipstick.

"...For the second time in as many presidential elections, Joseph Biden got to debate a young, attractive Republican candidate who was demonstrably less qualified to to be president than I am to be chairman of the World Bank. Joseph Biden is a very lucky man. The Great Political Matchmaker in the Sky keeps handing him people who are trying — and failing — to fight above their weight class, and he keeps blowing through what can now legitimately be called the Bum of the Quadrennium Club.

There is a deeply held Beltway myth of Paul Ryan, Man of Big Ideas, and it dies hard. But, if there is a just god in the universe, on Thursday night, it died a bloody death, was hurled into a pit, doused with quicklime, buried without ceremony, and the ground above it salted and strewn with garlic so that it never rises again.
[Link: www.esquire.com...]

257 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:47:54pm

This is deep for Americans.

258 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:48:09pm

re: #253 Gus

LOL... mops wipe, suck liquid, and are squeezed back into a bucket only to repeat.. heh

259 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:49:59pm

re: #257 Gus

This is deep for Americans.


[Video]

booing when a player is injured is sick....

260 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:50:11pm

On a sad note... did we just see Joe Biden's last debate ever?

261 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:51:24pm

re: #260 Mocking Jay

On a sad note... did we just see Joe Biden's last debate ever?

I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that he'll be looking to run in 2016 if they win this year.

So unless he has a health crisis (which is possible), we'll probably at least see him in some primary debates.

262 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:51:40pm

re: #258 boxhead

LOL... mops wipe, suck liquid, and are squeezed back into a bucket only to repeat.. heh

and if that is what you are saying Ryan was... then OK... I just did not want to be mean and all that...

//

263 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:52:12pm

re: #261 JamesWI

I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that he'll be looking to run in 2016 if they win this year.

So unless he has a health crisis (which is possible), we'll probably at least see him in some primary debates.

First I'm hearing this.

264 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:53:00pm

It's like this. Joe Biden was dominant because Joe Biden is dominant. Ryan lost. He, failed.

265 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:54:31pm

re: #246 jaunte

The downside: the entertainment is all self-taught harpists.

I once took an Arabic class at an interfaith conference with a sweet, rather batty, Egyptian professor who taught the group a surah from the Koran, and then happily told us that now we were qualified to go to 'the Muslim section of heaven'. (It occurs to me that if the Stalkers are reading tonight, they're gonna love that.)

Over lunch, we discussed if this seemed like a good option. I pointed out that heaven without alcohol seemed a tad dull. The young rabbi who'd been in the class with me said "Look, in one place you get beautiful gazelle-eyed young men to tend to your every need. In the other, you get anemic Ashkenazi angels. In one place you can't drink...but in the other, you NEED to drink."

266 blueraven  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:55:05pm

re: #264 Gus

It's like this. Joe Biden was dominant because Joe Biden is dominant. Ryan lost. He, failed.

I think Biden won because he had the facts on his side...and oh yes he was the aggressive, passionate one.

267 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:55:25pm

re: #256 jaunte

Charles P. Pierce:

Thought the ending line was absolutely perfect:

"You know what's the difference between Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan?

Lipstick."

268 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:56:10pm

going off topic ..

any west coast scenario paintball players here going to Decay of Nations this weekend?

269 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:56:53pm
270 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:58:25pm

re: #269 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

I would demolish Paul Ryan.

Bean.

Paste.

271 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:58:52pm

On an unrelated topic, I've decided that XCOM deserves the reputation it has garnered for being impossible. Pounding nails into my forehead would be quicker and less painful.

272 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:59:07pm

re: #270 Mocking Jay

I would demolish Paul Ryan.

Bean.

Paste.

hummus, is that you?

274 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 9:59:39pm
275 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:00:26pm

re: #273 Gus

Edward Archbold: Funeral is Saturday for man who ate bugs

He won the prize, an ivory ball python, which he intended to give to a friend.

276 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:00:37pm

Ooops... I thought the warning page would have come up on that one (like at the liveleak page itself.)

277 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:00:44pm

re: #273 Gus

Edward Archbold: Funeral is Saturday for man who ate bugs

I could do without ever hearing about this story again. kthxbai

278 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:01:15pm

re: #277 Mocking Jay

I could do without ever hearing about this story again. kthxbai

First time I heard about it.

279 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:01:25pm

re: #274 freetoken

dude.... did you really just make me click on that link.... aaarrrrrrrrrrrr

280 JamesWI  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:01:54pm

re: #263 Mocking Jay

First I'm hearing this.

Report: Biden laying the groundwork for 2016

281 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:01:57pm

re: #269 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

Well, what did they really expect? With the whoppers that Ryan was telling, it was either laugh in disbelief or reach over and give him a dope slap.

282 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:02:41pm
283 blueraven  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:02:48pm
284 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:03:45pm

re: #282 Gus

nope... not gonna click.... lol

285 freetoken  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:04:52pm

re: #282 Gus

What we really need is a Paul Ryan - Kim Kardashian sex tape.


Now that would get America's attention.

286 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:05:07pm

re: #162 Mocking Jay

[Embedded content]

re: #164 Targetpractice

He'd be married?

I got the feeling that Fischer was referring to that "OBUMMER GAY MARRIED A MUSLIM DUDE!!!11TY" "rumor" that some to the RWNJs were floating around a while back.

*spit*

287 boxhead  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:05:09pm

nite all... good to see you Gus and freetoken....

288 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:05:44pm

re: #286 MittDoesNotCompute

re: #164 Targetpractice

I got the feeling that Fischer was referring to that "OBUMMER GAY MARRIED A MUSLIM DUDE!!!11TY" "rumor" that some to the RWNJs were floating around a while back.

*spit*

Has he got a picture of this thirty-year ring?

289 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:08:19pm

re: #280 JamesWI

Report: Biden laying the groundwork for 2016

My mind hasn't decided on how seriously to take this.

Time to sleep.

290 Gus  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:09:29pm

re: #285 freetoken

What we really need is a Paul Ryan - Kim Kardashian sex tape.

Now that would get America's attention.

People are funny in the head.

291 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:10:01pm

re: #288 SanFranciscoZionist

Has he got a picture of this thirty-year ring?

Ah, Snopes is on it.

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

293 C-Punch !!!  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:18:21pm

I'm half-sleep on the floor, wrapped in a blanket, hoping that I don't miss anything.
It's like I'm 12.

Have a good night everyone.

294 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:18:55pm

re: #271 Targetpractice

On an unrelated topic, I've decided that XCOM deserves the reputation it has garnered for being impossible. Pounding nails into my forehead would be quicker and less painful.

Should have gotten Dishonored, lots of steampunk stealthy assassin goodness, or you can skip the stealth and play like a tank, or you can play the entire game without actually killing anyone, but it is a lot more difficult that way, you have to get others to do the killing for you. You get some nifty magical abilities too.

I'm liking it, it is pretty fun to play.

295 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 10:28:19pm

re: #294 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Should have gotten Dishonored, lots of steampunk stealthy assassin goodness, or you can skip the stealth and play like a tank, or you can play the entire game without actually killing anyone, but it is a lot more difficult that way, you have to get others to do the killing for you. You get some nifty magical abilities too.

I'm liking it, it is pretty fun to play.

Oh, don't get me wrong, XCOM's fun to play. But it's fun in the "How can I outsmart the AI this time" way.

296 wheat-dogg  Thu, Oct 11, 2012 11:10:06pm

Charles, I got this error when I tried loading comments earlier: MDB2 Error: connect failed.

Reloaded the page and then it was OK. Then the page hangs again when I click "New Comments".

297 boredtechindenver  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 12:17:23am

This is better than the Eddie Munster comparison.

298 JamesWI  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 12:33:27am

Shaking my fucking head.....

Looking in the comment sections on Yahoo (Yes, I know...that's just asking to see the dumbest the wingnuts have to offer...) there's a wingnut who not only repeats the ridiculous, disgusting wingnut lie that the four Americans in Benghazi were "tortured and sodomized".....but that they were also beheaded..... FUCKING BEHEADED....and there's a big coverup and that's why we don't know about it. And this guy has as many updings as downdings.....

I seriously need to get out of this fucking stupid country.

299 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 1:10:06am

re: #298 JamesWI

I sometimes wonder how we are going to be able to accomodate this growing number of idiots and still remain a modern (post-)industrial nation. Maybe they do need their own reservation where they can argue amongst themselves about what constitutes a "Biblical" Christian nation...

300 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 1:29:35am

Anyone else having problems posting on Pages? Seems like LGF is literally being knocked offline periodically.

301 researchok  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 1:29:55am

Morning, all

302 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 1:30:18am

Lost two posts on Pages. Anyway, goodnight.

303 researchok  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 1:30:24am

re: #300 Eclectic Infidel

Yup

Patience, grasshopper

304 Eclectic Infidel  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 1:30:59am

1:30 am PST. This grasshopper has to sleep.

305 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 1:39:05am

time for freetoken to start posting the musical classics of all eras...

306 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 4:12:09am

Good morning. Anybody here?

307 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 4:27:15am

Biden & Tigers win!

308 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 4:30:36am

re: #178 Batman

Worse. He recounted a story recounted to him about Romney once meeting someone whose family died in a car crash. In response to a question about Romney wanting the auto industry to fail.

His rambling anecdote about how Teh Great Lord Romney gave alms to the poor suffering peasants had absolutely nothing to do with the question.

309 freetoken  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 4:31:38am

re: #306 Sheila Broflovski

The power of she who will not be named (H_____ B__ B__) still possesses the servers, it seems.

310 The Left  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 4:33:26am

Conservatism's mansion has many rooms, and almost all of them are padded.

I thought that was hilarious. Charles Pierce in Esquire doing a predebate piece.

311 The Left  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 4:35:33am

re: #298 JamesWI

Shaking my fucking head.....

Looking in the comment sections on Yahoo (Yes, I know...that's just asking to see the dumbest the wingnuts have to offer...) there's a wingnut who not only repeats the ridiculous, disgusting wingnut lie that the four Americans in Benghazi were "tortured and sodomized".....but that they were also beheaded..... FUCKING BEHEADED....and there's a big coverup and that's why we don't know about it. And this guy has as many updings as downdings.....

I seriously need to get out of this fucking stupid country.

Come to Scotland! Universal health care and a referendum on independence in 2014. (shhh, don't mention the heroin problem here)

312 A Mom Anon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:00:27am

Testing,1,2,3 I just lost my last kinda long post. Damn it.

edit: Oh so NOW it works. (grumble,boohiss,grumble)

313 Gus  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:01:20am

This is getting old really fast.

314 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:01:42am


News flash Bryan: that's what he accomplished. "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women."

315 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:21:26am

Testing...

316 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:21:58am

Finally able to post. Hello, Ice!

317 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:22:16am

re: #315 Dark_Falcon

Testing...

Check. You're cleared for entry into the post-Ryan-being-made-to-look-like-a-petulant-child world.

318 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:32:10am

re: #317 Obdicut

Check. You're cleared for entry into the post-Ryan-being-made-to-look-like-a-petulant-child world.

Do you really need to start with something like that at 7:30 in the morning?

319 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:46:11am

re: #312 A Mom Anon

Testing,1,2,3 I just lost my last kinda long post. Damn it.

edit: Oh so NOW it works. (grumble,boohiss,grumble)

I done learned the hard way: save a copy before hiting the "post it" button

320 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:48:16am

I cannot imagine that Biden made it as far as he did in politics without some solid debating skills. And Ryan's obsession with Ayn Rand does indicate a degree of adolescence in his thinking.

if they are calling Biden out on style rather than substance, it means he did his job.

321 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:49:12am

re: #318 Dark_Falcon

Do you really need to start with something like that at 7:30 in the morning?

It's past eight here. Anyway, not much I can do about it-- you're going to be hearing it all day long.

Of course, when Ryan told the truth-- about privatizing Social Security-- that was pretty bad too, but that's because the truth of their plan is pretty sad.

Anyway, enough about that: Have you ever used parmesan cheese as a first-layer breading? It's freaking awesome.

322 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:50:43am

re: #321 Obdicut

It's past eight here. Anyway, not much I can do about it-- you're going to be hearing it all day long.

Of course, when Ryan told the truth-- about privatizing Social Security-- that was pretty bad too, but that's because the truth of their plan is pretty sad.

Anyway, enough about that: Have you ever used parmesan cheese as a first-layer breading? It's freaking awesome.

How do you that? It sounds like something my mother would want to know about.

323 kirkspencer  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:51:55am

re: #320 AK-47%

I cannot imagine that Biden made it as far as he did in politics without some solid debating skills. And Ryan's obsession with Ayn Rand does indicate a degree of adolescence in his thinking.

if they are calling Biden out on style rather than substance, it means he did his job.

Ah, but recall that Romney "won" his debate on style, too.

In fact, it's something I will probably start pointing out both frequently and forcefully. If you just want it to look good go with Republicans. If you want it to work, vote Democratic.

324 kirkspencer  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:54:18am

re: #321 Obdicut

It's past eight here. Anyway, not much I can do about it-- you're going to be hearing it all day long.

Of course, when Ryan told the truth-- about privatizing Social Security-- that was pretty bad too, but that's because the truth of their plan is pretty sad.

Anyway, enough about that: Have you ever used parmesan cheese as a first-layer breading? It's freaking awesome.

Yes, but it's sometimes too salty for me. Asiago makes a good alternative in those cases.

325 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:55:09am

re: #322 Dark_Falcon

How do you that? It sounds like something my mother would want to know about.

Pound the hell out of the meat, and trim more fat than you normally would (especially if using lamb), then directly bread the chops with the parmesan, then dip in an egg-milk battering mixture and then in breadcrumbs/panko/whatever.

Simple, but awesome. Oh, and chuck a little nutmeg in there if you want to go crazyfancy.

326 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:55:26am

I caught the first debate, skipped the second so I can only comment on what i have read about it. Suppose I could watch a recording of it, but that is irrelevant to me right now. I am not about to vote for Paul Ryan or his running mate, ol' whassisname-with-the-hair

327 kirkspencer  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:00:47am

re: #325 Obdicut

Pound the hell out of the meat, and trim more fat than you normally would (especially if using lamb), then directly bread the chops with the parmesan, then dip in an egg-milk battering mixture and then in breadcrumbs/panko/whatever.

Simple, but awesome. Oh, and chuck a little nutmeg in there if you want to go crazyfancy.

Alternative:

Wet, then dry, then wet, then dry. Meat is "dry", and so is the grated cheese. A quick dip in wet (the egg wash, or even just milk) will help the cheese adhere without having to pound it (which makes the meat wet by breaking some of the cells).

328 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:01:19am

re: #325 Obdicut

Pound the hell out of the meat, and trim more fat than you normally would (especially if using lamb), then directly bread the chops with the parmesan, then dip in an egg-milk battering mixture and then in breadcrumbs/panko/whatever.

Simple, but awesome. Oh, and chuck a little nutmeg in there if you want to go crazyfancy.

Your post is favorited. I'll talk to her about it later today. She rarely uses lamb, though, mostly beef, pork and chicken (though she can roast or cook turkey meat better than 98% of the population, also).

329 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:01:43am

pound your meat until its wet? hee, hee, heee...

330 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:03:52am

How to put a hit on a little girl
Taliban's 'Radio Mullah' sent hit squad after Malala

"We had no intentions to kill her but were forced when she would not stop (speaking against us)," said Sirajuddin Ahmad, a spokesman of Swat Taliban now based in Afghanistan's Kunar province.

He said the Taliban held a meeting a few months ago at which they unanimously agreed to kill her. The task was then given to military commanders to carry out.

The militia has a force of around 100 men specialised in targeted killing fighters said. They chose two men aged between 20-30, who were locals from Swat Valley.
...
Before the attack, the two fighters personally collected information about Malala's route to school timing the vehicle she used and her security," Ahmad said.

They decided to shoot her near a military checkpoint to make the point they could strike anywhere, he said.
....
Her would-be killers said they had no idea their attack would propel their victim, already a national hero into a global icon.

"Actually the media gave it so much importance and now even Ban Ki-moon used dirty language against us," Ahmad said.

The international community stayed silent when the Pakistani security forces killed women during a crackdown he complained.

Now that they had failed to kill Yousufzai, they would target her father, Ahmad said.

Ziauddin Yousufzai, the headmaster of a girls' school, is on their hit list for speaking against them, his activities to promote peace in the region and for encouraging his daughter.

"We have a clear-cut stance. Anyone who takes side with the government against us will have to die at our hands," Ahmad warned.

"You will see. Other important people will soon become victims."

331 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:06:00am

Damn recalcitrant hamsters

332 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:06:52am

Those are job creator hamsters warning us what will happen if Obama gets re-elected...

333 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:06:53am

re: #327 kirkspencer

Alternative:

Wet, then dry, then wet, then dry. Meat is "dry", and so is the grated cheese. A quick dip in wet (the egg wash, or even just milk) will help the cheese adhere without having to pound it (which makes the meat wet by breaking some of the cells).

But pounding the meat is part of the point, to tenderize it. And the cheese doesn't have any problem adhering to the meat, anyway. Usually have to shake off excess.

I love pounding meat. I got me two hammers for it.

334 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:08:15am

If I had a hammer, I'd pound me a pork chop...

335 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:08:18am

re: #330 Killgore Trout

How to put a hit on a little girl
Taliban's 'Radio Mullah' sent hit squad after Malala

I'd say its time for some of 'Radio Mullah' transmitters to get taken off the air via AGM-88E ALARM. Let's see how brave their broadcasters are after they see how the missile's fragmentation warhead ripped on of their comrades to bloody ribbons. And they deserve nothing less, the bastards, for gloating about the wounding of a 14-year old girl.

336 freetoken  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:08:35am

re: #333 Obdicut

I love pounding meat.

Umm... ok.

337 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:09:26am

re: #336 freetoken

Umm... ok.

I also grind my own meat. You have more control that way.

338 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:10:21am

re: #335 Dark_Falcon

I'd say its time for some of 'Radio Mullah' transmitters to get taken off the air via AGM-88E ALARM. Let's see how brave their broadcasters are after they see how the missile's fragmentation warhead ripped on of their comrades to bloody ribbons. And they deserve nothing less, the bastards, for gloating about the wounding of a 14-year old girl.

Pakistan made some arrests today but I think the Mullah will have to wait for a visit from an American drone. The Pakistanis don't seem very interested in retaking the Swat Valley or upsetting the militants there.

339 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:10:32am

re: #331 Shropshire_Slasher

Damn recalcitrant hamsters

Plenty of LGF members own cats. If the hamsters continue misbehaving, we should simply hand one of their number over to one of said cats and then make the other hamsters watch the result.

/Sorry, I'm in something of a bloody-minded mood today it seems.

340 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:10:33am

Is it me or is it getting hot in here?

341 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:11:29am

re: #340 Shropshire_Slasher

Is it me or is it getting hot in here?

Put your pants back on.

342 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:11:44am

Mornin' everyone...Yeah, that was brutal. One of the best VP debate analyses out there...

343 Lidane  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:11:48am
344 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:11:55am

re: #337 Obdicut

I also grind my own meat. You have more control that way.

I go to the local butcher who grinds his meat right there on the premises in front of your eyes. worth the extra cost.

345 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:12:01am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Pakistan made some arrests today but I think the Mullah will have to wait for a visit from an American drone. The Pakistanis don't seem very interested in retaking the Swat Valley or upsetting the militants there.

The Pakistani government already controls the SWAT valley in most regards. It's not North Wazirstan, though it does still have such active terrorists.

346 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:13:48am

Big Tom Callahan: Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.
-Tommy Boy

347 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:13:52am

re: #344 AK-47%

I go to the local butcher who grinds his meat right there on the premises in front of your eyes. worth the extra cost.

I like grinding my own meat because I can totally control fat level. One of my favorite tricks is trimming the beef fat and silver skin off of beef, and grinding it with bacon to replace the beef fat with pork fat, because pork fat is much freaking tastier.

God damn now I want to go make hamburgers right now.

348 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:16:14am

re: #311 The Left

Come to Scotland! Universal health care and a referendum on independence in 2014. (shhh, don't mention the heroin problem here)

Have they figured out how to get the sheep to fly, or are the French still in charge of that project?

349 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:16:32am

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

Plenty of LGF members own cats. If the hamsters continue misbehaving, we should simply hand one of their number over to one of said cats and then make the other hamsters watch the result.

/Sorry, I'm in something of a bloody-minded mood today it seems.

You watched the hamster Ryan debate Cheshire cat Biden last night, didn't you. I love politics, especially when it turns into a blood sport. And, like a cat with a hamster, Biden playfully picked up Ryan in his jaws, tossed him across the floor, gave him a chance to recover, then pounced again, careful not to break the skin too soon and spoil the fun. And then, like a loving cat, he laid Ryan's lifeless form at the foot of the bed for the Democratic base to wake up to.

350 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:16:36am

re: #346 Shropshire_Slasher

Big Tom Callahan: Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.
-Tommy Boy

I think how good a look that would be has been somewhat exaggerated, but give it a shot and let me know how it turns out.

351 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:18:48am

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

Plenty of LGF members own cats. If the hamsters continue misbehaving, we should simply hand one of their number over to one of said cats and then make the other hamsters watch the result.

/Sorry, I'm in something of a bloody-minded mood today it seems.

re: #348 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Do you think your Siamese would be up to the task. He seems 'evil-regal' enough to scare the daylights out of a hamster.

352 Sionainn  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:19:32am

re: #325 Obdicut

Pound the hell out of the meat, and trim more fat than you normally would (especially if using lamb), then directly bread the chops with the parmesan, then dip in an egg-milk battering mixture and then in breadcrumbs/panko/whatever.

Simple, but awesome. Oh, and chuck a little nutmeg in there if you want to go crazyfancy.

I've been doing chicken breasts with a parmesan cheese/bread crumb/crushed garlic mixture, dipping the chicken in butter first, then the mixture (smooshing a little more on top once they are in the pan), sprinkling with garlic salt, and baking them. So simple and so delicious!

353 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:20:08am

re: #349 darthstar

you must have watched a different debate than I did. I saw Ryan recover quite well in the last third of the debate and remind the nation how smart and capable he really is.

354 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:22:33am

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

you must have watched a different debate than I did. I saw Ryan recover quite well in the last third of the debate and remind the nation how smart and capable he really is.

Ryan is smart, and capable...it is what he is capable of doing that I don't like, namely turning America into some sort of Randian plutocracy.

355 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:22:44am

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

you must have watched a different debate than I did. I saw Ryan recover quite well in the last third of the debate and remind the nation how smart and capable he really is.

Man I want whatever drugs you're taking.

356 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:22:54am

re: #351 Dark_Falcon

re: #348 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Do you think your Siamese would be up to the task. He seems 'evil-regal' enough to scare the daylights out of a hamster.

He'd probably enjoy it a great deal. However, given his current physical disabilities I am not sure he'd be able to find it in the first place.

357 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:24:20am

re: #355 darthstar

Man I want whatever drugs you're taking.

Hey, stop picking on D_F. He saves the rest of us from going over to yahoo, Fox, or some other wingnut haven to see what the pretzel logic view of various events are.

358 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:25:27am

re: #354 AK-47%

Ryan is smart, and capable...it is what he is capable of doing that i don't like, namely turning America into some sort of Randian plutocracy.

Smart - like saying he'd rather have the US involved in another full-scale war in the Middle East than let Iran develop a nuclear weapon. Capable of forcing his religious ideology onto people, especially women, while at the same time cutting their social safety net from beneath them.

359 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:25:32am

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

you must have watched a different debate than I did. I saw Ryan recover quite well in the last third of the debate and remind the nation how smart and capable he really is.

How come he kept giving weird anecdotes instead of actual specifics? Do you think that Romney/Ryan just don't want to tell anyone the specifics of their plans because they know people don't like them, or do they actually not have any specific plans?

360 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:25:33am

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

you must have watched a different debate than I did. I saw Ryan recover quite well in the last third of the debate and remind the nation how smart and capable he really is.

Ryan did ok but I still think Biden won. We'll have to wait a couple days for meat world polls to see what the voters thought. I'm seeing some commentary about Biden's demeanor. He did interrupt a bit and making faces was a bit distracting but his answers were solid and confident.

361 DisturbedEma  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:25:56am

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

Your words do not compute, he looked robotic and clueless

362 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:26:27am

re: #357 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Hey, stop picking on D_F. He saves the rest of us from going over to yahoo, Fox, or some other wingnut haven to see what the pretzel logic view of various events are.

Sorry. I was out last night with family and didn't get to play in real time.

363 Sionainn  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:27:08am

re: #358 darthstar

Smart - like saying he'd rather have the US involved in another full-scale war in the Middle East than let Iran develop a nuclear weapon. Capable of forcing his religious ideology onto people, especially women, while at the same time cutting their social safety net from beneath them.

QFT!

364 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:28:34am

re: #360 Killgore Trout

Ryan did ok but I still think Biden won. We'll have to wait a couple days for meat world polls to see what the voters thought. I'm seeing some commentary about Biden's demeanor. He did interrupt a bit and making faces was a bit distracting but his answers were solid and confident.

Biden's demeanor...you need to read Charles Pierce

Joe Biden laughed at him? Of course, he did. The only other option was to hand him a participation ribbon and take him to Burger King for lunch.

365 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:29:17am

re: #358 darthstar

Smart - like saying he'd rather have the US involved in another full-scale war in the Middle East than let Iran develop a nuclear weapon. Capable of forcing his religious ideology onto people, especially women, while at the same time cutting their social safety net from beneath them.

Smart in the sense of having the intelligence to implement these idiotic plans if we let him...

366 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:29:18am

re: #361 DisturbedEma

Your words do not compute, he looked robotic and clueless

And that's just what Mitt Romney said...talk about ironic!

367 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:29:23am

re: #360 Killgore Trout

Ryan did ok but I still think Biden won. We'll have to wait a couple days for meat world polls to see what the voters thought. I'm seeing some commentary about Biden's demeanor. He did interrupt a bit and making faces was a bit distracting but his answers were solid and confident.

Concur. I scored the debate as a Biden win. Not a decisive victory (Ryan recovered enough to prevent that) but at least a marginal victory. Possibly a substantial victory, but that will depend on how its seen in the press.

368 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:30:23am

re: #358 darthstar

Smart - like saying he'd rather have the US involved in another full-scale war in the Middle East than let Iran develop a nuclear weapon.

Yes, in my mind that's smart.

369 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:30:50am
370 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:32:58am

Joe fucking Klein:

This was a fine, fascinating, energetic debate. Joe Biden won — certainly on the substance, although he lost a bit on the body language. His frustrated smiles, head shakes, etc., etc., will become a Republican talking point and influence the postgame evaluations, even if they were sort of justified. Biden was in command throughout, a more forceful and passionate presence than Paul Ryan. But Ryan did well too — unflappable even when Biden nailed him on his requests for stimulus funding. And Ryan had some nice moments, arguing uphill against Biden’s onslaught. I’m sure he passed muster on foreign policy knowledge — he’s been to the Arghandab River Valley in Kandahar province, for God’s sake! — even if his policy proposals were either fatuous or dangerous.

Read more: [Link: swampland.time.com...]

Complete with 'demeanor' comment for KT and 'nice moment' for DF.

And that's Joe Klein - he's on your side.

371 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:32:58am

re: #364 darthstar

Biden's demeanor...you need to read Charles Pierce

I know it really excites the partisans who want their candidates to display over the top rudeness and disdain for their opponents but being rude probably isn't going to play well with moderates and undecideds. The debate isn't decided by what excites you, it's about persuading voters.

372 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:33:30am

re: #369 Sheila Broflovski

So is Mitt saying to Ryan, "Hey Boo-boo, let's go find another SuperPAC bas-ket."

:)

373 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:33:44am

re: #368 Dark_Falcon

Yes, in my mind that's smart.

Then enlist. If you're so hell bent on watching Americans get killed overseas, do it in person.

374 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:39:06am

Good morning lizards!

375 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:39:18am

re: #371 Killgore Trout

I know it really excites the partisans who want their candidates to display over the top rudeness and disdain for their opponents but being rude probably isn't going to play well with moderates and undecideds. The debate isn't decided by what excites you, it's about persuading voters.

Biden wasn't rude. Rude is when you insult your opponent. Ryan's injuries were largely self-inflicted. He tried to insult Biden by calling him gaffe-prone himself when he brought up the 47% comment by Romney, and all Biden did was say, "Yes, but I always mean what I say. And so does Romney." Anybody looking at this as over the top rudeness should be on Fox & Friends.

376 darthstar  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:40:11am

And don't downding me, couch warrior. That's more cowardly than banging your virtual war hammer on the internet.

377 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:40:14am

Turkey scrambles warplanes to Syrian border – live updates

Syrian helicopter reportedly bombs Syrian border town
• US vice-presidential candidates battle over Syria policy
• Thursday's death toll topped 200, activists say
• Rebels claim capture of airbase near Aleppo

378 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:41:02am

OK. Who squashed the Hansen Brother in Comment 374? At least let NJDHF get an actual remark in the thread before taking offensive action.
;p

(OK. It's fixed now.)

379 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:41:50am

Romney will have one big advantage in any debate: Obama has to run on is record. Romney, who is running away from his own past, can continue to simply blow soap bubbles and let them reflect whatever the audience wants to see in them.

380 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:42:05am

re: #373 darthstar

Then enlist. If you're so hell bent on watching Americans get killed overseas, do it in person.

Do you not yet understand, after I have said it many times? Paul Ryan doesn't want war, Mitt Romney doesn't want war, I don't want war. NOBODY WANTS WAR WITH IRAN!!! But what ever might be wanted the premise of drawing a 'red line' on Iran is that disabling Iran's nuclear program by force would be better than allowing Iran to build nukes. In fact, the whole point of drawing a red line is to establish a clear threshold, such that Iran will be easily able to avoid crossing it if their nuclear is not intended to build a nuclear weapon.

381 Obdicut  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:42:08am

What's really funny to me is watching people try to use the spin that Biden 'won' this debate because he had his facts in order, and get all concerned about his tone and attitude. These are normally the same people who say that Obama lost the first debate by being too detatched and not aggressive, ignoring that he had his facts in order and that Romney was lying.

Can't have it both ways: If the facts are what matter, then Romney lost the first debate by lying continuously. If you should be respectful and somber, then Obama won the first debate by being so.

And everyone, everyone is talking about the way that moderates and undecideds (entirely different populations, of course) will react to this debate, based on absolutely nothing concrete, as far as I can see. I really don't know why other people think that they understand how other people are going to react to something. Nobody will admit to being one of the persuadable, and yet everyone is an expert on them.

382 Sionainn  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:43:25am

Fox News headline for a story: "Biden's Demeanor During Debate Called Disrespectful."

What I find even more disrespectful is continually lying to the American people on a daily basis.

383 kirkspencer  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:44:01am

re: #368 Dark_Falcon

Yes, in my mind that's smart.

It's a very pyrrhic sort of attitude. Since I'm not into absolutism, I'll consider it not smart.

384 The Left  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:45:03am

re: #357 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Hey, stop picking on D_F. He saves the rest of us from going over to yahoo, Fox, or some other wingnut haven to see what the pretzel logic view of various events are.

DF is a valuable member of LGF. I appreciate people who are basically the total opposite of me; it's valuable and useful to see!

385 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:46:02am

re: #378 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

OK. Who squashed the Hansen Brother in Comment 374? At least let NJDHF get an actual remark in the thread before taking offensive action.
;p

(OK. It's fixed now.)

Tough crowd this morning.

386 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:47:09am

re: #384 The Left

DF is a valuable member of LGF. I appreciate people who are basically the total opposite of me; it's valuable and useful to see!

I came here when this was a much more conservative place, but it presented reasonable arguments in most cases. But I still blog in order to exchange ideas, find the weaknesses in my own arguments a viewpoints and (gasp) learn from people I might disagree with...

387 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:47:44am

re: #384 The Left

DF is a valuable member of LGF. I appreciate people who are basically the total opposite of me; it's valuable and useful to see!

Not the total opposite, surely. Neither one of us is a racist nor an asshole, surely.

388 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:49:09am

I watched the debate instead of the football game. It was difficult being I'm a huge NFL fan. My plan was to turn to it after the debate but I fell asleep with 5 minutes left in the debate. I missed the end. It appeared to me it was a tie leading to their closing comments. Who won?

389 The Left  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:50:13am

re: #386 AK-47%

I came here when this was a much more conservative place, but it presented reasonable arguments in most cases. But I still blog in order to exchange ideas, find the weaknesses in my own arguments a viewpoints and (gasp) learn from people I might disagree with...

Exactly; I value the people I disagree with. It's much more liberal here now than it used to be and I value the few conservative commenters we have.

DF is also a nice guy and he'll admit being wrong.

390 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:50:53am

re: #388 NJDhockeyfan

I watched the debate instead of the football game. It was difficult being I'm a huge NFL fan. My plan was to turn to it after the debate but I fell asleep with 5 minutes left in the debate. I missed the end. It appeared to me it was a tie leading to their closing comments. Who won?

Ask the fact checkers. they are employed by the Ministry of Truth to be the final arbiters of objective reality...

/

391 The Left  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:51:41am

re: #387 Dark_Falcon

Not the total opposite, surely. Neither one of us is a racist nor an asshole, surely.

We're pretty far apart on social and policy issues. I didn't mean to offend you!
I certainly wasn't calling you a racist or a misogynist.

392 kirkspencer  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:53:08am

re: #380 Dark_Falcon

Do you not yet understand, after I have said it many times? Paul Ryan doesn't want war, Mitt Romney doesn't want war, I don't want war. NOBODY WANTS WAR WITH IRAN!!! But what ever might be wanted the premise of drawing a 'red line' on Iran is that disabling Iran's nuclear program by force would be better than allowing Iran to build nukes. In fact, the whole point of drawing a red line is to establish a clear threshold, such that Iran will be easily able to avoid crossing it if their nuclear is not intended to build a nuclear weapon.

Oh, bull.

The whole "they're building a nuclear weapon" hysteria began with building a non-breeding nuclear reactor. Then there was huge hysteria at ANY refinement. Oh, the cries of outrage and insistence on attacking (that have been refused) when 5% was reached.

As I've pointed out numerous times, the reports of the IAEA are consistent: they are NOT building weapons. The refined material, having reached 20%, is being put into UO2 plates. To convert those to nuclear weapons they pretty much have to re-smelt and start the refinement process over.

But it doesn't matter. People JUST KNOW they're building nukes, somewhere. Nevermind that inventory reviews stand up and that inspections of suspected enhancement sites show no sign of irradiation. No, you just know it, so evidence be damned.

It sounds, almost exactly, like the ramp-up for attacking Iraq. "Dammit, we know Saddam is pulling the wool over our eyes and is secretly building nukes."

So yes, to me it sounds exactly like you want war with Iran. You, and Romney, and a host of other people. Except for some reason you all seem to think it would be a short and victorious war - a quick raid that utterly destroys the nuclear program and so cows the Iranians that they would never dare try again.

No.

393 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:53:49am

Feline Overlord Guide to Getty Tasty Poultry to Eat:

1. At 7am jump up on bed and meow loudly for five minutes to get attention of sleeping staff.

2. At 7:05am walk to head of bed and paw now awake, but groggy, staff in the face. Keep the claws in since maiming is not the primary goal. Remember to keep applying aural stimulation as well.

3. At 7:10am turn and walk away from offered cat food after giving it a cursory sniff to indicate it *was* noticed but that it was deemed unsatisfactory. Meow to indicate knowledge of cooked chicken being available in the fridge.

4. Grant staff a degree of slack and continued belief that they are controlling events by letting them go take a shower and shave.

5. At 7:25am (as staff leaves shower) sit on bed and yowl repeatedly to indicate displeasure with offered food. If clothing is placed on the bed immediately lie on it in order to add necessary cat hair and also prevent wearing by staff before the current situation is settled.

6. Lead staff back to kitchen and await deployment of yummy poultry to dish. Put up with being given medical pill.

7. Proceed with morning schedule of grooming, nap, etc.

394 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:54:26am

re: #388 NJDhockeyfan

I watched the debate instead of the football game. It was difficult being I'm a huge NFL fan. My plan was to turn to it after the debate but I fell asleep with 5 minutes left in the debate. I missed the end. It appeared to me it was a tie leading to their closing comments. Who won?

The Titans with a field goal with 4 seconds left.

395 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:55:09am

The whole point of the "war with Iran" discusssion has very little to do with the security of Israel or of the world, it has almost everything to do with having another backdrop to point at and proclaim how Obama is everything from soft to coddling to secretly sypmathetic to the mullahs.

396 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:55:30am

re: #368 Dark_Falcon

Yes, in my mind that's smart.

We get in another war in the middle east, we will play Carthage in the 4th Punic war... Our military has been shredded by 11 years of fighting for Pyrrhic victories in Iraq & Afghanistan & our economy was already almost destroyed once because Republicans refuse to raise taxes to the levels needed to pay for their wars of choice. Yet another unpaid war will shatter the nation's economy & destroy our military.

According to you previously, DF, our being weak is the worst possible thing. If we made the mistake of a war against Iran, a drastically weakened US would be our best possible outcome. Far more likely is a flat out loss and the shattering of our government by the far right.

397 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:56:21am

re: #391 The Left

We're pretty far apart on social and policy issues. I didn't mean to offend you!
I certainly wasn't calling you a racist or a misogynist.

You didn't, we're fine.

398 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 6:59:20am

Hello..tap tap tap...is this thing on?

My posts are disappearing.

399 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 7:01:58am

Mine too.

400 AK-47%  Fri, Oct 12, 2012 7:03:17am

remember, copy before posting, I just had another one disappear

401 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 13, 2012 12:26:57pm

Testing...

402 efuseakay  Sat, Oct 13, 2012 1:08:35pm

We shouldn't go to war with Iran until we find Saddam's WMD/nukes...

403 lostlakehiker  Sat, Oct 13, 2012 1:40:13pm

re: #392 kirkspencer

Oh, bull.

The whole "they're building a nuclear weapon" hysteria began with building a non-breeding nuclear reactor. Then there was huge hysteria at ANY refinement. Oh, the cries of outrage and insistence on attacking (that have been refused) when 5% was reached.

As I've pointed out numerous times, the reports of the IAEA are consistent: they are NOT building weapons. The refined material, having reached 20%, is being put into UO2 plates. To convert those to nuclear weapons they pretty much have to re-smelt and start the refinement process over.

But it doesn't matter. People JUST KNOW they're building nukes, somewhere. Nevermind that inventory reviews stand up and that inspections of suspected enhancement sites show no sign of irradiation. No, you just know it, so evidence be damned.

It sounds, almost exactly, like the ramp-up for attacking Iraq. "Dammit, we know Saddam is pulling the wool over our eyes and is secretly building nukes."

So yes, to me it sounds exactly like you want war with Iran. You, and Romney, and a host of other people. Except for some reason you all seem to think it would be a short and victorious war - a quick raid that utterly destroys the nuclear program and so cows the Iranians that they would never dare try again.

No.

20% is beyond the level needed to fuel nuclear electric power plants.

I think a war with Iran would not be short, but long and nasty. Ruinously expensive for the U.S., tens of thousands of dead soldiers. Worse still for Iran. It would embitter Iran and the rest of the Islamic world. I don't see how the upshot of such a war could include a permanent end to Iran's nuclear ambitions.

But---that does not mean I can wave away the implications of 20% enrichment. Our own president has imposed trade sanctions in what he says is an effort to stop Iran's progress toward nuclear weapons capabilities. I believe him on this.

The IAEA has misgivings. The New York Times reports on the topic and treats it as a real possibility that Iran is working toward nukes. Are the president, the IAEA, the NYT all hysterical fools and knaves? Or maybe our information is fragmentary and incomplete but more than a little of it points toward an Iranian nukes program.


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