I’ll just say up-front that as far as I’m concerned, this was a massive victory for Barack Obama. Mitt Romney’s constant lying has never been more obvious, or more exposed, on every front.
And now, the wrap-up discussion, as the wingnut echo chamber starts to wail in unison.
1 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:35:55pm |
And as usual, the media thinks we need to end with a completely fluffy non-question about vague silliness.— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 17, 2012
| 3 |
celticdragon Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:36:31pm |
I LUVS all of the slackers and parasites in American who I wouldn't trust to wash my cars in the car elevator!
| 4 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:36:42pm |
Now I'd believe that question a "plant" before I'd believe any of the others.
| 5 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:36:49pm |
Of course, last question allows Mitt to lie about the 47% comment without allowing Obama to attack him on it.
| 6 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:37:03pm |
If he cares about 100% of the people, why on earth would he say what he said? Oh wait, he thought we would never hear that.
| 7 |
makeitstop Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:37:37pm |
Romney has a lot of nerve bitching about campaigns attacking and not laying out a positive vision.
| 8 |
aagcobb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:37:53pm |
Romney got 100% of his state insured, and if elected he'll make sure tens of millions aren't.
| 12 |
makeitstop Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:38:38pm |
re: #5 JamesWI
Of course, last question allows Mitt to lie about the 47% comment without allowing Obama to attack him on it.
O is hitting back on that right now. Good.
| 13 |
spiderx Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:38:40pm |
i haven't watched the whole debate.. Did Obama bring up the 47%?
| 14 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:38:44pm |
re: #7 makeitstop
Romney has a lot of nerve bitching about campaigns attacking and not laying out a positive vision.
More projection than an IMax theater.
| 15 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:38:48pm |
re: #5 JamesWI
Of course, last question allows Mitt to lie about the 47% comment without allowing Obama to attack him on it.
Well that didn't work. Obama's attacking him on it quite effectively. Nice close.
| 16 |
celticdragon Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:38:56pm |
Romney just opened the 47% door and Obama is happily kicking the shit out of it.
| 18 |
Mr. Crankypants Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:39:10pm |
Obama just opened a big can of whoopass on the 47%
The passion is there. Obama won this hands down.
| 19 |
aagcobb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:39:15pm |
| 20 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:39:20pm |
re: #5 JamesWI
Of course, last question allows Mitt to lie about the 47% comment without allowing Obama to attack him on it.
Apparently people on Twitter disagree with my assessment there, saying Romney just reminded everyone about the 47% without Obama bringing it up..
And just now, Obama attacked him, so I'm completely wrong :P
| 21 |
erik_t Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:39:26pm |
Did anything interesting happen? I have better things to do than watch someone try to politely refute lies.
| 22 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:39:37pm |
God Mitt, you sure know how to walk into it.
| 23 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:39:59pm |
re: #21 erik_t
Did anything interesting happen? I have better things to do than watch someone try to politely refute lies.
Willard tried to go for the kill on Libya and got his ass handed to him instead.
| 24 |
Major Tom Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:40:09pm |
all right... it's all in the polls now until the next debate...
| 25 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:40:22pm |
re: #21 erik_t
Did anything interesting happen? I have better things to do than watch someone try to politely refute lies.
Obama really got to Romney. Romney was clearly agitated.
| 27 |
KiTA Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:40:30pm |
47% brought up in the last 2 minutes of the debate, so Romney can't rebut it. Wise move there.
| 29 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:41:13pm |
Now let's see how CNN tries to spin this into a tie, or a Romney win.
Wolf is trying to say the Libya question was a WEAK POINT for Obama. You've got to be kidding me.
| 31 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:41:35pm |
re: #24 Major Tom
all right... it's all in the polls now until the next debate...
That's more of a sad statement about the state of the nation than you might have believed.
The media have turned this into a reality TV voting game, like DWTS.
| 32 |
nines09 Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:41:39pm |
"Hello. I'm Mitt Romney and have you considered a Reverse Mortgage?"
| 33 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:41:49pm |
| 34 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:42:02pm |
Obama closes with asking the questioner (and the audience by proxy) for their vote. Romney didn't do that. This is a minor but important detail in a political debate. They teach this to kids when they're running for high school student council, people like being asked for their vote.
| 35 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:42:28pm |
re: #30 aagcobb
NBC says Romney stumbled on Libya.
To me he came across as a political ghoul. Ambassador & three others killed, wtf in your political safe stance.
| 36 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:42:47pm |
re: #29 JamesWI
Now let's see how CNN tries to spin this into a tie, or a Romney win.
Wolf is trying to say the Libya question was a WEAK POINT for Obama. You've got to be kidding me.
Mitt made damn sure to turn it into his own weakness.
| 37 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:42:50pm |
re: #31 freetoken
DWTS has better costumes- more revealing.
| 38 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:42:59pm |
Ahem....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
#debatesObama four minute advantage.Result:Romney won and will giain in the polls as a result
— Dick Morris (@DickMorrisTweet) October 17, 2012
| 39 |
spiderx Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:43:31pm |
The media is so scared of the "liberal bias" BS that they bend over backwards to carry water for conservatives. CNN is the worst at this.
| 40 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:43:31pm |
| 41 |
aagcobb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:43:57pm |
re: #38 JamesWI
Ahem....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[Embedded content]
Good news, the reverse predictor speaks!
| 42 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:44:07pm |
re: #33 researchok
Nobody's mind was changed tonight.
Not even the undecided, in my opinion.
It depends. Mitt got a much larger boost from the last debate than I though he would. Undecideds at this point are going to follow the media coverage trends. The MSM will declare Obama did well enough tonight. That would be enough to stop Mitt's bump in the polls from the last debate.
| 43 |
aagcobb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:45:17pm |
Will anyone bite the bullet and watch Fox to see how they are spinning?
| 44 |
freetoken Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:45:21pm |
| 46 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:45:48pm |
| 48 |
Gus Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:46:11pm |
POTUS in rose garden day after Benghazi attack: "No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation" is.gd/PqIMAe— Rachel Maddow MSNBC (@maddow) October 17, 2012
| 49 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:46:17pm |
I'll be blunt.
The 'undecideds' are morons.
| 50 |
bratwurst Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:46:22pm |
Romney whoops the Obama/Crowley tag team. Obama campaign goes 0 & 3 on debates #debate— Matt Barber (@jmattbarber) October 17, 2012
| 51 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:46:30pm |
It was not even close. All the lies stood out in sharp relief. It was a stellar performance from the President.
| 53 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:46:56pm |
re: #38 JamesWI
There's not enough LOLWUT on the internets for that.
| 54 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:47:12pm |
re: #39 spiderx
The media is so scared of the "liberal bias" BS that they bend over backwards to carry water for conservatives. CNN is the worst at this.
I don't expect the press to give Obama props. The truth is it was the left wing presses response to the first debate that hurt him. Not so much that Romney did well.
As usual the left does more damage to himself than the otherside.
| 55 |
Gus Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:47:13pm |
Wait!
Wait for it.
Calm down now...
Obama has won every single exchange in this debate; and he has also appeared calmer and more authoritative. thebea.st/V7xk8A— Andrew Sullivan (@sullydish) October 17, 2012
| 56 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:47:33pm |
You knew Romney was in deep shit when he starts wandering off course to attack things he thinks he can get traction on, like Obama's retirement account.
| 57 |
krypto Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:47:41pm |
Early voting on the CNN internet poll when I checked and voted, on the question "who do you think fared better in the debate: was,
Obama - 100%
Romney - 0%
based on 5 votes. :)
| 58 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:47:57pm |
re: #55 Gus
Wait!
Wait for it.
Calm down now...
[Embedded content]
Lol. Come on Sully, you know you wanna freak out.
| 59 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:48:10pm |
| 61 |
aagcobb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:48:19pm |
re: #57 krypto
Early voting on the CNN internet poll when I checked and voted, on the question "who do you think fared better in the debate: was,
Obama - 100%
Romney - 0%based on 5 votes. :)
Only because luap nor wasn't an option.
| 62 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:48:51pm |
| 64 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:49:52pm |
| 65 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:49:57pm |
| 66 |
recusancy Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:50:04pm |
Obama kicked ass. Tigers kicking ass. Not a bad night.
| 67 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:50:10pm |
| 68 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:50:31pm |
The weirdest moment of the debate: Romney has "a binder full of women." For a minute I thought I was watching Dexter.— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) October 17, 2012
| 70 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:50:46pm |
Uh, what?
National Journal declares debate a "tie" with time still on the clock: bit.ly/Tu9i0x #CNNDebate— Media Matters (@mmfa) October 17, 2012
| 71 |
Destro Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:51:26pm |
Romney's answer to ending gun violence is to say women need to get married because all those free range vaginas are dangerous.
— TheDestro1 (@TheDestro1) October 17, 2012
| 72 |
AntonSirius Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:51:36pm |
On cue, Castellanos is on CNN calling the president "angry".
He and Ari are also desperately trying to call it a draw. And failing miserably.
| 73 |
Destro Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:51:49pm |
Romney said: "Government does not create jobs." Which is why Communist China has all the jobs?
— TheDestro1 (@TheDestro1) October 17, 2012
| 74 |
Destro Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:52:43pm |
Romney's answer to returning manufacturing? Have Americans make less than Chinese workers then jobs will come to America.
— TheDestro1 (@TheDestro1) October 17, 2012
| 75 |
aagcobb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:52:51pm |
NBC to do some fact checking after the commercial break.
| 76 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:52:59pm |
re: #28 Targetpractice
Call me when Wolf calls it a "draw."
That's how I scored it. Romney hammered Obama on immigration and Obama's '47%' didn't move the dials (I watched on CNN). But Romney stumbled on Libya and Obama did very well in his reply on it.
Both men made their cases and neither got fluster or looked foolish. Thus my score of this one as a draw. Mitt Romney did just as well tonight as he did in the first debate, but Barack Obama did much better than he did the first time around.
| 77 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:53:07pm |
Intrade is paying 20:1 for the President. The overall election went up by about 8.
[Link: www.intrade.com...]
| 78 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:54:35pm |
| 80 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:55:11pm |
re: #66 recusancy
Obama kicked ass. Tigers kicking ass. Not a bad night.
Hey hey let's not ruin a good thing
| 82 |
smirking Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:56:11pm |
If anyone needs a motivational pick me up in the lead up to the election, just rewatch the TKO punch Obama delivered in response to the Benghazi attacks. The Romney shuffle across the room after that answer with his stiff arm holding the microphone slung by his side warms my heart.
| 83 |
engineer cat Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:56:26pm |
ok, ok, i hereby foreswear my depressing cloud of gloom and doom
whew!
good one, barack!
| 84 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:56:31pm |
re: #76 Dark_Falcon
That's how I scored it. Romney hammered Obama on immigration and Obama's '47%' didn't move the dials (I watched on CNN). But Romney stumbled on Libya and Obama did very well in his reply on it.
Both men made their cases and neither got fluster or looked foolish. Thus my score of this one as a draw. Mitt Romney did just as well tonight as he did in the first debate, but Barack Obama did much better than he did the first time around.
Thus proving my belief that the only way Romney will ever be viewed as having lost a debate is if he shits himself on stage. So long as he avoids that, then he's either "won" or managed a "draw."
| 85 |
b_sharp Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:56:37pm |
re: #76 Dark_Falcon
That's how I scored it. Romney hammered Obama on immigration and Obama's '47%' didn't move the dials (I watched on CNN). But Romney stumbled on Libya and Obama did very well in his reply on it.
Both men made their cases and neither got fluster or looked foolish. Thus my score of this one as a draw. Mitt Romney did just as well tonight as he did in the first debate, but Barack Obama did much better than he did the first time around.
Did that hurt? :P
| 86 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:56:58pm |
re: #68 Charles Johnson
He wanted to hire competent women for leadership positions and you compare him a serial killer?! Charles, I like and respect you but that is just over the line.
| 87 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:57:03pm |
Ok, more surprising to me than the Yankee's loosing (YES!!!!), I note that the American Men's Soccer team beat Guatemala tonight 3-1. Since all they needed was a draw, I was really quite surprised by this. Perhaps they'll find the key and be a real presence in the next cup?
| 88 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:58:01pm |
re: #85 Gangnam Style
Did that hurt? :P
No. I intended to post my honest view and I did. Didn't hurt at all.
| 89 |
Mocking Jay Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:58:04pm |
| 90 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:58:07pm |
re: #76 Dark_Falcon
You're on record as both praising Romney for lying in the first debate and saying that he stands for nothing but his own ambition to be President. Difficult to take anything you say seriously after that.
| 91 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:58:25pm |
There seems to be some confusion as to what a draw is.
You see, Mitt just got his ass handed to him. This is not a draw.
| 92 |
recusancy Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:58:36pm |
Romney seems genuinely awkward when interacting with people and not behind a podium.
| 93 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:58:55pm |
re: #84 Targetpractice
Thus proving my belief that the only way Romney will ever be viewed as having lost a debate is if he shits himself on stage. So long as he avoids that, then he's either "won" or managed a "draw."
What if he shits himself in the measured, sober, dignified manner of a businessman, THEN WHAT? HUH!?!
| 94 |
Mocking Jay Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:59:02pm |
Free headline for Charles: Romney's Act of Error.
| 95 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:59:12pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
He wanted to hire competent women for leadership positions and you compare him a serial killer?! Charles, I like and respect you but that is just over the line.
The question was about whether he would support equal pay for women, and his answer was that he looked really hard to hire women, and said it in the most awkward manner possible.
| 96 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:59:28pm |
| 97 |
Varek Raith Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:59:32pm |
| 98 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:59:34pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
He wanted to hire competent women for leadership positions and you compare him a serial killer?! Charles, I like and respect you but that is just over the line.
Dexter is a television show, Kurt. It's not reality.
And yeah, I thought Romney's reference to his "binder full of women" was creepy and dishonest, coming from a guy who signs on to every misogynist agenda of the religious right. Beyond creepy.
| 100 |
aagcobb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:59:38pm |
Romney statement about oil and gas production falling was due to fallout from the big oilrig disaster. And auto bailout saved Detroit.
| 101 |
efuseakay Tue, Oct 16, 2012 7:59:38pm |
re: #73 Destro
But he created jobs in Massachusetts! It's magic!
| 102 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:00:58pm |
Interesting, CBS and NBC seem to call the debate 'close/draw'
I missed the ABC wrapup
| 103 |
AntonSirius Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:00:59pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
He wanted to hire competent women for leadership positions and you compare him a serial killer?! Charles, I like and respect you but that is just over the line.
[Link: bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com...]
| 104 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:01:12pm |
re: #98 Charles Johnson
Dexter is a television show, Kurt. It's not reality.
And yeah, I thought Romney's reference to his "binder full of women" was creepy and dishonest, coming from a guy who signs on to every misogynist agenda of the religious right. Beyond creepy.
More to the point he didn't address the actual crux of the question, pay disparity. He said a bunch of shit about women needing flexible schedules which plays into the right wing narrative that they're paid less because they're unreliable and take more time off.
| 106 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:01:32pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
He wanted to hire competent women for leadership positions and you compare him a serial killer?! Charles, I like and respect you but that is just over the line.
I agree; Dexter Morgan is actually aware that he is a monster, and despite the fact manages to navigate the world in which he is an alien in an ethically defensible manner.
Romney? Not so much.
| 107 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:01:33pm |
I should note that for most of the debate that I caught (I got home after it had begun) I was hearing the debate but not seeing it. I was reading things on the net and not watching the TV much of the time.
| 108 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:01:58pm |
Worst moment for Romney: when he tried to lie about Obama saying the Libya attack was an "act of terror." Totally, totally busted.
| 109 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:02:25pm |
| 110 |
ElCapitanAmerica Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:02:40pm |
Matt Romney ... scary dude!
| 111 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:02:49pm |
re: #108 Charles Johnson
Worst moment for Romney: when he tried to lie about Obama saying the Libya attack was an "act of terror." Totally, totally busted.
I liked when Crowley pointed out that the administration did in fact do that. He looked like a damned fool doing that. But then again he always looks like one when talking foreign policy.
| 114 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:03:48pm |
re: #108 Charles Johnson
Not exactly.
Susan Rice and others in the administration went on for days afterward saying it not an act of terror.
| 115 |
recusancy Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:03:54pm |
#bindersfullofwomen is trending on twitter. haha also: [Link: www.facebook.com...]
[Link: bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com...]
| 116 |
b_sharp Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:03:58pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
He wanted to hire competent women for leadership positions and you compare him a serial killer?! Charles, I like and respect you but that is just over the line.
I think you missed the point. Dexter is a fictional character who keeps tokens of his successes. What was in Romney's binder?
Tokens of his successes?
| 117 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:04:31pm |
| 118 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:04:55pm |
re: #113 Decatur Deb
What's the format for Monday's?
Foreign policy with questions from a moderator.
| 119 |
philosophus invidius Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:04:58pm |
When asked about GWB why didn't Obama mention that Romney has all the same people that led us into Iraq. "Who do you trust to keep us out of another destructive war?
| 120 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:05:03pm |
re: #114 researchok
Not exactly.
Susan Rice and others in the administration went on for days afterward saying it not an act of terror.
Yes, exactly. And no, Susan Rice did NOT say it was "not an act of terror."
Please, look up the facts. You're wrong.
| 121 |
Destro Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:05:22pm |
Romney got caught in a lie about terrorist attack denial by Obama. Romney needs to stop watching FOX news.
— TheDestro1 (@TheDestro1) October 17, 2012
| 122 |
efuseakay Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:06:54pm |
re: #114 researchok
Not exactly.
Susan Rice and others in the administration went on for days afterward saying it not an act of terror.
You must have missed the debate. Romney said the President didn't call it an act if terror. But the President did. B. U. S. T. E. D.
| 123 |
Gus Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:06:57pm |
Denis Leary - Asshole (Uncensored #Romney Version): youtu.be/UrgpZ0fUixs #HofstraDebate #p2 #tlot #Obama— Gus (@Gus_802) October 17, 2012
| 124 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:07:06pm |
I'd also like to thank Crowley for handling the moderator's job beautifully. She refused to let either candidate bulldoze over her, she responded with follow-up questions, and she kept the debate pretty much on track.
Or, in short, Willard's apologists are gonna say she totally flubbed it and she should have been more like Lehrer: Quiet and invisible.
| 125 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:07:17pm |
re: #102 researchok
Interesting, CBS and NBC seem to call the debate 'close/draw'
I missed the ABC wrapup
CBS poll of undecideds had Obama winning by 7%, outside of the margin of error. Can't call that a "draw."
| 126 |
diamonda2u Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:08:12pm |
Fox News is saying moderator tainted the debate by being factual on Libya. Awesome. #debates #Current2012— Cenk Uygur (@cenkuygur) October 17, 2012
| 127 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:08:15pm |
re: #116 Gangnam Style
I think you missed the point. Dexter is a fictional character who keeps tokens of his successes. What was in Romney's binder?
Tokens of his successes?
Potential women for senior positions. I know that a lot has been said about Mitt Romney firing people, but not enough has been said about who he hires. He wanted to ensure he had women in leadership positions and set to work to ensure that would happen. He found qualified female candidates for many of the jobs he was looking to fill and hired them. It was a high quality performance by a smart leader and skillful personnel manager. Nothing creepy about it.
| 128 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:08:47pm |
Andrew Sullivan was bloody elated.
Oh joy.
| 129 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:09:01pm |
If nothing else comes out of this debate, Romney just lost his Libya talking point. The crowd actually breaking into applause when he was called out on his lie, CNN's tracking of undecided voters showing they really didn't like his attacks (and really liked Obama's comments).
Look for Republicans to start backing off from their constant Benghazi talk.
| 130 |
diamonda2u Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:09:07pm |
Obama still out schmoozing with crowd, while Romney is long gone. Because, you know, carbon-based life forms make him uncomfortable.— Markos Moulitsas (@markos) October 17, 2012
| 131 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:09:44pm |
re: #120 Charles Johnson
I do recall her saying it was video protest.
See this:
Ambassador Susan Rice: Libya Attack Not Premeditated
Regardless, the Libya affair was a screw up all around.
But in the ned, so what? Stuff happens. No administratin bats 1000 all the time.
Mistakes are made. What matters are the corrections.
| 132 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:10:15pm |
re: #124 Targetpractice
I'd also like to thank Crowley for handling the moderator's job beautifully. She refused to let either candidate bulldoze over her, she responded with follow-up questions, and she kept the debate pretty much on track.
Or, in short, Willard's apologists are gonna say she totally flubbed it and she should have been more like Lehrer: Quiet and invisible.
She did a good job. I feared she'd be unfair, but she did a far better job than the moderator of the VP debate. She let both men make their points without getting things get away from her.
| 133 |
efuseakay Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:10:38pm |
re: #127 Dark_Falcon
Potential women for senior positions. I know that a lot has been said about Mitt Romney firing people, but not enough has been said about who he hires. He wanted to ensure he had women in leadership positions and set to work to ensure that would happen. He found qualified female candidates for many of the jobs he was looking to fill and hired them. It was a high quality performance by a smart leader and skillful personnel manager. Nothing creepy about it.
How many women were in leadership positions when he was in charge at Bain?
| 134 |
ElCapitanAmerica Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:10:44pm |
"I have seen every presidential debate in American history, since...Nixon & Kennedy in 1960. This was immeasurably the best." --George Will— Brian Stelter (@brianstelter) October 17, 2012
| 135 |
engineer cat Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:10:50pm |
re: #102 researchok
Interesting, CBS and NBC seem to call the debate 'close/draw'
I missed the ABC wrapup
i think it's too clear that obama won to spin it otherwise
the thing is, joe gave the spinmeisters something to grab hold of to spin his win into a draw, but i can't think of where barack gave them anything to use
anyway rove, koch et al. will be working on it already and we'll know by tomorrow if they've come up with anything
| 136 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:10:57pm |
re: #129 JamesWI
If nothing else comes out of this debate, Romney just lost his Libya talking point. The crowd actually breaking into applause when he was called out on his lie, CNN's tracking of undecided voters showing they really didn't like his attacks (and really liked Obama's comments).
Look for Republicans to start backing off from their constant Benghazi talk.
I expect the exact opposite, I expect they're gonna ratchet it all up in anticipation of the last debate being on foreign policy. They're gonna try like mad to find something, anything, they can before then to pin on him.
| 138 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:11:05pm |
re: #131 researchok
Come on, just admit it. Susan Rice did NOT say the attack was "not an act of terror." Why did you say she did?
Seriously. What is it that makes conservatives willing to defend the most blatant scurrilous dishonesty?
| 139 |
recusancy Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:11:44pm |
re: #132 Dark_Falcon
She did a good job. I feared she'd be unfair, but she did a far better job than the moderator of the VP debate. She let both men make their points without getting things get away from her.
Why would she be unfair? You know she's a conservative right?
| 140 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:12:25pm |
DF, we've agreed on the last two debates but this one was not a draw.
Romney lost this one, and lost ugly. I think one of the things that will stick out is the Benghazi part. I really think that 5 minute section was the single most damaging moment for Romney.
There were moments that stood out in this debate, much more than Romney's romp in the first debate. So while Romney wasn't trounced as badly, I think the damage to Romney's standing could be just as great as his gain from the first debate.
There's no other way to spin it, Just like Obama wasn't ready for Romney in the first debate, Romney was not ready at all for Obama in the second debate.
| 141 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:12:46pm |
Fact check: There were no women partners at Bain Capital during Romney's time: b.globe.com/TsdGxl #debate #debate2— The Boston Globe (@BostonGlobe) October 17, 2012
| 143 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:12:54pm |
re: #122 efuseakay
No, he did not say the Libya event wasw an act of terror.
What he did say was that acts of terror will be responded to.
See the timeline of statements
| 144 |
aagcobb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:13:08pm |
Verlander still on the mound, pitching a 2 hit shutout in the 9th.
| 145 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:13:21pm |
re: #136 Targetpractice
I expect the exact opposite, I expect they're gonna ratchet it all up in anticipation of the last debate being on foreign policy. They're gonna try like mad to find something, anything, they can before then to pin on him.
Ah, forgot about the foreign policy debate. I guess I should have said, "This is the end of the Libya talking point possibly being a winning line for him."
| 146 |
Big Joe Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:13:46pm |
re: #131 researchok
I do recall her saying it was video protest.
See this:
Ambassador Susan Rice: Libya Attack Not Premeditated
Regardless, the Libya affair was a screw up all around.
But in the ned, so what? Stuff happens. No administratin bats 1000 all the time.
Mistakes are made. What matters are the corrections.
Your link
“In Cairo, as you know, a few hours earlier, there was a violent protest that was undertaken in reaction to this very offensive video that was disseminated,” Rice said, referring to protests in Egypt Tuesday over a film that depicts the Prophet Muhammad as a fraud. Protesters in Cairo breached the walls of the U.S. Embassy, tearing apart an American flag.
“We believe that folks in Benghazi, a small number of people came to the embassy to – or to the consulate, rather, to replicate the sort of challenge that was posed in Cairo,” Rice said. “And then as that unfolded, it seems to have been hijacked, let us say, by some individual clusters of extremists who came with heavier weapons… And it then evolved from there.”
wut?
| 147 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:13:58pm |
re: #143 researchok
No, he did not say the Libya event wasw an act of terror.
What he did say was that acts of terror will be responded to.
See the timeline of statements
So he was talking about those other acts of terror?
| 148 |
engineer cat Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:14:17pm |
| 149 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:14:18pm |
re: #138 Charles Johnson
So the media attention/questions for weeks was unwarranted?
| 150 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:14:20pm |
John Kerry - "Tonight the Romney campaign began to unravel"
| 151 |
ElCapitanAmerica Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:14:56pm |
re: #143 researchok
No, he did not say the Libya event wasw an act of terror.
What he did say was that acts of terror will be responded to.
See the timeline of statements
Why would he say that in respond to that attack if he didn't see it as an act of terror? Use your head.
| 152 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:15:33pm |
re: #143 researchok
No, he did not say the Libya event wasw an act of terror.
What he did say was that acts of terror will be responded to.
See the timeline of statements
Oh please. What bullshit. Here are Obama's exact words.
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
Yes he DID call it an "act of terror." Just stop.
| 153 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:16:46pm |
re: #146 Big Joe
She said the attack was spontaneous.
| 154 |
b_sharp Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:17:42pm |
re: #127 Dark_Falcon
Potential women for senior positions. I know that a lot has been said about Mitt Romney firing people, but not enough has been said about who he hires. He wanted to ensure he had women in leadership positions and set to work to ensure that would happen. He found qualified female candidates for many of the jobs he was looking to fill and hired them. It was a high quality performance by a smart leader and skillful personnel manager. Nothing creepy about it.
His use of the binder was the strangeness.
| 155 |
aagcobb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:17:51pm |
Eduardo Nunez homered to start 9th; score now 2-1 Detroit.
| 156 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:17:56pm |
re: #153 researchok
She said the attack was spontaneous.
What? no
She said the protests were spontaneous and then hijacked to commit a terrorist attack.
| 157 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:18:12pm |
re: #140 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All
Sorry, but I just did not see it that way. But right now I think I should sign off and take care of some other things. Otherwise I'm just going to be bothering others here tonight, and I don't want to do that.
Good Night, All.
| 158 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:18:29pm |
| 159 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:18:33pm |
Interesting evening. Romney had a bit of a Jekyll/Hyde night. I'd say he won most of the questions about jobs & the economy, which were probably the most important. He didn't fare nearly as well on Libya & some of the social issues.
I'm sure there's a huge sigh of relief from Democrats concerned that Obama would repeat his performance from the first debate. On that score, I'd say he did nearly perfectly. In terms of his other goal tonight, which was to get Romney to seem unacceptable & presidential, I'd say he came up short.
Overall analysis: Draw. Polls will let us know.
| 160 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:18:34pm |
re: #154 Gangnam Style
His use of the binder was the strangeness.
First thought was mail-order brides.
| 161 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:19:04pm |
Attention youtube advertisers: Don't buy a 30 second ad, place a 10 second ad and then make me stare at a logo for 20 seconds. Don't waste your money on anything over 45 seconds, nobody's going to watch it.
| 162 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:19:43pm |
re: #157 Dark_Falcon
Sorry, but I just did not see it that way. But right now I think I should sign off and take care of some other things. Otherwise I'm just going to be bothering others here tonight, and I don't want to do that.
Good Night, All.
Fair enough. :) enjoy yourself and have a good evening
| 164 |
recusancy Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:20:02pm |
re: #161 Killgore Trout
Attention youtube advertisers: Don't buy a 30 second ad, place a 10 second ad and then make me stare at a logo for 20 seconds. Don't waste your money on anything over 45 seconds, nobody's going to watch it.
Who was the ad for?
| 165 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:21:21pm |
re: #151 ElCapitanAmerica
So why would administration officials declare for days after the event the attacks were spontaneous?
Don't get me wrong- I'm not accusing Obama or the administration of deliberately misstating or informing the American people of anything- just the opposite, really.
Events were unfolding, no one initially knew what the hell was going on and as result the response was off the mark- not by design but by accident.
IT HAPPENS.
| 166 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:22:01pm |
re: #164 recusancy
Who was the ad for?
I watched it 30 seconds ago and already forgot. Had something to do with pets or something.
| 167 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:22:10pm |
re: #159 The Mongoose
Interesting evening. Romney had a bit of a Jekyll/Hyde night. I'd say he won most of the questions about jobs & the economy, which were probably the most important. He didn't fare nearly as well on Libya & some of the social issues.
I'm sure there's a huge sigh of relief from Democrats concerned that Obama would repeat his performance from the first debate. On that score, I'd say he did nearly perfectly. In terms of his other goal tonight, which was to get Romney to seem unacceptable & presidential, I'd say he came up short.
Overall analysis: Draw. Polls will let us know.
Could not possibly disagree more. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to call what we just saw a "draw." It was a trip to the woodshed for Mitt Romney.
| 168 |
alpuz Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:22:22pm |
re: #127 Dark_Falcon
Thanks for 'clarifying' the shit you have no idea about, DF. It's appreciated.
| 169 |
Interesting Times Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:22:30pm |
If you like it than you shoulda put three rings on it #bindersfullofwomen— Katie C. (@justacomma) October 17, 2012
| 170 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:22:36pm |
re: #156 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All
As it turned out, it was an act of terror- period.
| 171 |
Gus Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:23:22pm |
#FightForJobs in China, vote for Mitt #Romney. #p2 #tlot #Obama #Obama2012 #Sensata twitter.com/Gus_802/status...— Gus (@Gus_802) October 16, 2012
| 172 |
mr.fusion Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:23:53pm |
re: #167 Charles Johnson
Could not possibly disagree more. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to call what we just saw a "draw." It was a trip to the woodshed for Mitt Romney.
Seriously
The only way that could have gone worse for Romney is if he went all Clint Eastwood and started talking to the chair
| 173 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:24:05pm |
re: #163 Gus
Politifiact missed two of the most interesting fact checks of the night (IMHO). The Libya statement and Obama's investments in China and tax shelters in the Caribbean.
| 174 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:24:32pm |
Yankees down to their last out. Hold em Detroit!
| 175 |
Hercules Grytpype-Thynne Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:24:35pm |
re: #165 researchok
So why would administration officials declare for days after the event the attacks were spontaneous?
Don't get me wrong- I'm not accusing Obama or the administration of deliberately misstating or informing the American people of anything- just the opposite, really.
Events were unfolding, no one initially knew what the hell was going on and as result the response was off the mark- not by design but by accident.
IT HAPPENS.
As I remember it, they didn't say it was spontaneous, they said that they had no evidence it was planned. Which is quite a different thing.
| 176 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:24:46pm |
re: #170 researchok
As it turned out, it was an act of terror- period.
So you agree with what President Obama said the next morning. Thanks for clarifying.
| 177 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:25:01pm |
re: #151 ElCapitanAmerica
And don't forget- the administration was getting most of their information from the Libyans- not exactly a trusted source.
| 178 |
ElCapitanAmerica Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:25:05pm |
re: #165 researchok
So why would administration officials declare for days after the event the attacks were spontaneous?
Don't get me wrong- I'm not accusing Obama or the administration of deliberately misstating or informing the American people of anything- just the opposite, really.
They didn't know it was planned, or unplanned. What the admin said is that it was based on inflamed passions over the video, a fact confirmed by the NYT today.
But the president characterized it as an act of terror from day one, Mitt really dropped the ball here.
| 179 |
efuseakay Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:25:07pm |
re: #143 researchok
No, he did not say the Libya event wasw an act of terror.
What he did say was that acts of terror will be responded to.
See the timeline of statements
Yes. And he was referring to the attack in Bengazi.
Wow. Just. Wow.
| 180 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:25:08pm |
Ann furiously tears Mitt's office apart, "I know those binders filled with tramps are here somewhere," she mumbles through clenched teeth.
— Stephanie McMaster (@Smethanie) October 17, 2012
| 181 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:25:09pm |
I'm just going to stomp this point into the ground a bit. Romney, when you're asked about pay disparity, talk about pay disparity. Don't talk about how your people couldn't find any qualified women to fill your Cabinet to begin with so you really made an extra effort to find some. That makes it sound like you went out and had to scrape the barrel for barely passable dregs to fill those positions.
For God's sake don't characterize flexible scheduling as the most important thing to women, because it isn't. They don't want to be viewed as needing more time off than men because that characterizes them as unreliable and undependable. They aren't.
What women want is equality, equal pay, equal opportunity, equal scheduling policies, the exact same shit their male counterparts get. You don't need some special kind of insight into the female brain to understand this, because what I'm talking about is basic Golden Rule shit.
| 182 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:25:19pm |
re: #167 Charles Johnson
Could not possibly disagree more. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to call what we just saw a "draw." It was a trip to the woodshed for Mitt Romney.
By my count Romney won on more questions than Obama. But he had a bad moment on Libya and it might cost him. It's a matter of opinion, of course. My guess is both candidates will get >40% of debate watchers polled saying they won. And I could be completely wrong. We'll find out soonish.
| 183 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:26:05pm |
re: #181 goddamnedfrank
I'm just going to stomp this point into the ground a bit. Romney, when you're asked about pay disparity, talk about pay disparity. Don't talk about how your people couldn't find any qualified women to fill your Cabinet to begin with so you really made an extra effort to find some. That makes it sound like you went out and had to scrape the barrel for barely passable dregs to fill those positions.
For God's sake don't characterize flexible scheduling as the most important thing to women, because it isn't. They don't want to be viewed as needing more time off than men because that characterizes them as unreliable and undependable. They aren't.
What women want is equality, equal pay, equal opportunity, equal scheduling policies, the exact same shit their male counterparts get. You don't need some special kind of insight into the female brain to understand this, because what I'm talking about is basic Golden Rule shit.
My MOm hated hated and I mean hated Romney's comments there. He came off such as a patronizing dick. More than usual really.
| 184 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:26:38pm |
David Frum called it for the President, but he's sorta sane, an' all.
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]
| 185 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:27:04pm |
re: #182 The Mongoose
By my count Romney won on more questions than Obama. But he had a bad moment on Libya and it might cost him. It's a matter of opinion, of course. My guess is both candidates will get >40% of respondents saying they won. And I could be completely wrong. Let's find out.
That sounds reasonable. I thought it was a marginal Obama win but I'm biased. It was at least a tie.
| 186 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:27:33pm |
Colorado voters give Obama a 48/44 victory in the debate- more importantly 58/36 among independents. Sample is R+3
— PublicPolicyPolling (@ppppolls) October 17, 2012
So even with a Republican-heavy poll, Obama won.
| 187 |
prairiefire Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:27:50pm |
Muse evoking Queen by way of "Madness" ~
| 188 |
engineer cat Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:28:11pm |
re: #167 Charles Johnson
Could not possibly disagree more. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to call what we just saw a "draw." It was a trip to the woodshed for Mitt Romney.
the point where obama turned around and directly addressed mitt on the topic of libya, when he said "governor" - obama's tone there was "listen, buster"
| 189 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:28:23pm |
re: #184 Decatur Deb
David Frum called it for the President, but he's sorta sane, an' all.
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]
When I linked to him 8 hours ago he was a raving wingnut liar. Times change.
| 190 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:28:26pm |
The two main fails by Obama that I heard:
He did the typical political sidestep on Benghazi. He didn't answer the question at all. Had there been requests for additional security and where they denied by whom? If they screwed up he could have said yes, but that his record on killing terrorists was stellar.
On the more common issue of the price of gasoline, he missed an opportunity to educate, and he missed an opportunity to explain how the 14% reduction in federal land drilling permits (according to Romney) had any relevance to the simple fact that drilling and production in the USA is up higher than in 16 years, and imports are way down.
He also failed completely to explain that no amount of drilling in the USA can ever reduce the cost of oil, or gasoline, by any act of the president (Republican or Democrat) since the USA does not have the potential reserves to compensate for world demand, and because USA oil companies sell oil to the highest bidder in accordance with good old free market principles, whether the buyer is in the USA or elsewhere, and that USA drilling would not even be occurring if not for high prices that made fracking and deep wells economical; nor did he explain that that some coal mines are in trouble because they have been outbid for power by American natural gas companies that offer better prices to power companies (free market stuff), or that some produce crappy coal that causes cancer and screws up power station furnaces.
Nor did he explain that there hasn't been a new refinery constructed in the USA in decades and that the current capacity is at limits of demand, so if a refinery is down for maintenance or whatever, the supply goes down and the price of gasoline goes up; which pays the oil company the cost of the maintenance. Get the principle? Free markets work great./
Nor did he explain that natural gas is a fantastic resources that we have. Just convert all buses and USPS to it for a start and we will save millions of barrels of Saudi oil. All we have to do is make an investment (oops).
Never mind solar and all that crap. There's only two minutes available for the voters, so two minutes and a bit is all the education they get, that they can't be bothered to get for themselves.///
| 191 |
Cap'n Magic Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:28:33pm |
Obama saved the 47% for the last-which is devastating.
| 192 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:28:36pm |
full count, two out and ... Foo.
| 194 |
makeitstop Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:29:08pm |
re: #143 researchok
No, he did not say the Libya event wasw an act of terror.
What he did say was that acts of terror will be responded to.
See the timeline of statements
Split them hairs! What the hell do you think the press conference was about?
| 195 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:29:10pm |
re: #192 William Barnett-Lewis
full count, two out and ...
Single by Horseface Texiera. Had the pleasure of booing him hard in Baltimore last Sunday.
| 197 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:31:03pm |
re: #189 Killgore Trout
When I linked to him 8 hours ago he was a raving wingnut liar. Times change.
He still sees things with Bush WH eyes, but he's sane. Whether he's a liar depends on whether he believes his own shit.
| 198 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:31:41pm |
re: #196 philosophus invidius
CNN "scientific" poll: 67% of [braindead?] Americans think Romney won
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
Isn't that the first debate?
| 199 |
mr.fusion Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:32:10pm |
re: #190 Achilles Tang
The two main fails by Obama that I heard:
He did the typical political sidestep on Benghazi. He didn't answer the question at all. Had there been requests for additional security and where they denied by whom? If they screwed up he could have said yes, but that his record on killing terrorists was stellar.
House Republicans cut the administration’s request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012. (Negotiations with the Democrat-controlled Senate restored about $88 million of the administration’s request.) Last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans’ proposed cuts to her department would be “detrimental to America’s national security” — a charge Republicans rejected.
| 200 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:32:19pm |
re: #189 Killgore Trout
When I linked to him 8 hours ago he was a raving wingnut liar. Times change.
No, he was just wrong. But I know it helps you feel better to exaggerate.
| 201 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:32:42pm |
re: #196 philosophus invidius
CNN "scientific" poll: 67% of [braindead?] Americans think Romney won
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
That's the October 3rd debate poll.
| 202 |
recusancy Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:32:48pm |
re: #189 Killgore Trout
When I linked to him 8 hours ago he was a raving wingnut liar. Times change.
Which post? What did you link to? I'm curious.
| 203 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:32:52pm |
re: #191 Cap'n Magic
Obama saved the 47% for the last-which is devastating.
People remember the beginning and the end best. Well played.
| 206 |
b_sharp Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:33:55pm |
re: #167 Charles Johnson
Could not possibly disagree more. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to call what we just saw a "draw." It was a trip to the woodshed for Mitt Romney.
And he was carrying a switch, not a guitar.
(nobody will get this)
| 207 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:33:57pm |
Try not to act too shocked, but binder story is bullshit: blog.thephoenix.com/BLOGS/talkingp...— Markos Moulitsas (@markos) October 17, 2012
| 208 |
Destro Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:34:25pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
He wanted to hire competent women for leadership positions and you compare him a serial killer?! Charles, I like and respect you but that is just over the line.
re: #98 Charles Johnson
Romney on equal pay for women in the workplace? He said he will make sure employers want to hire women. Hint: wear low cut blouses.
— TheDestro1 (@TheDestro1) October 17, 2012
| 209 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:34:29pm |
re: #194 makeitstop
So the media were all wrong in questioning the WH and the administration for weeks.
And the WH and administration were right to stonewall.
No administration walks on water.
None. Screw ups happen.
| 210 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:34:37pm |
Killgore gets the gold star for calling it a slight Obama edge.
| 211 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:34:49pm |
CNN says Obama won by 7%, with equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats in the poll.
And Wolf calls that "basically a draw." Fucking ridiculous.
| 212 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:35:23pm |
What do you know. Romney's touching story about his "binder full of women" was another lie.
| 213 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:35:27pm |
re: #211 JamesWI
CNN says Obama won by 7%, with equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats in the poll.
And Wolf calls that "basically a draw." Fucking ridiculous.
Wolf's awful.
| 215 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:36:00pm |
re: #210 The Mongoose
talk about setting a low bar...
| 216 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:36:07pm |
re: #211 JamesWI
CNN says Obama won by 7%, with equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats in the poll.
And Wolf calls that "basically a draw." Fucking ridiculous.
Of course he did. It's CNN. Did you expect anything else?
| 217 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:36:09pm |
re: #211 JamesWI
CNN says Obama won by 7%, with equal numbers of Republicans and Democrats in the poll.
And Wolf calls that "basically a draw." Fucking ridiculous.
It's a narrow win. We'll see if it moves the race. We can safely conclude it is unlikely to help Romney.
| 218 |
Gus Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:36:20pm |
I-95 The asshole Song: Mitt #Romney youtu.be/85gO8XLb4ug via @youtube— Gus (@Gus_802) October 17, 2012
| 221 |
researchok Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:37:04pm |
| 222 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:37:50pm |
re: #214 Big Joe
I'll just leave this here
Obama looks like he's having a frank discussion. Willard looks like he's reenacting the last scene of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers."
| 223 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:38:14pm |
Fascinating how the conservatives immediately start yelling the same points in unison, isn't it?
"It was a draw."
Dream on.
| 224 |
makeitstop Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:38:19pm |
re: #187 prairiefire
Muse evoking Queen by way of "Madness" ~
[Embedded content]
That is such a great song. Destined to be a classic.
(There's a little bit of George Michael's 'Faith' in that melody, as well.)
| 225 |
b_sharp Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:38:29pm |
re: #182 The Mongoose
By my count Romney won on more questions than Obama. But he had a bad moment on Libya and it might cost him. It's a matter of opinion, of course. My guess is both candidates will get >40% of debate watchers polled saying they won. And I could be completely wrong. We'll find out soonish.
How did you guarantee objectivity in your analysis of who won each question.
| 226 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:38:42pm |
I believe the CBS poll (which may not be final) was showing 37-30. Similar story...slight edge to the president. Nothing too surprising. I expected it to be within 5 but 7 doesn't blow me away.
| 227 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:39:01pm |
| 228 |
Big Joe Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:39:30pm |
re: #216 moderatelyradicalliberal
Of course he did. It's CNN. Did you expect anything else?
Fox is too hot! MSNBC is too cold! But CNN is just right!
| 229 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:39:37pm |
| 230 |
kirkspencer Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:39:56pm |
re: #223 Charles Johnson
Fascinating how the conservatives immediately start yelling the same points in unison, isn't it?
"It was a draw."
Dream on.
You know it's bad for them when they can't claim they won and instead have to harp on it being a draw.
Just like they did for Biden-Ryan.
| 231 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:40:29pm |
re: #225 Gangnam Style
How did you guarantee objectivity in your analysis of who won each question.
I didn't. Charles thought Obama rocked Romney tonight, for his reasons. I thought it was a draw, for mine. Turns out we were both a little wrong, and both a little right.
| 232 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:40:38pm |
Tumblr Blog: Binders Full Of Women bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com— Steve Garfield (@stevegarfield) October 17, 2012
| 233 |
makeitstop Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:40:52pm |
re: #190 Achilles Tang
Nor did he explain that natural gas is a fantastic resources that we have. Just convert all buses and USPS to it for a start and we will save millions of barrels of Saudi oil. All we have to do is make an investment (oops).
He did mention natural gas - as much as the format would allow.
| 234 |
JamesWI Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:41:05pm |
re: #217 The Mongoose
It's a narrow win. We'll see if it moves the race. We can safely conclude it is unlikely to help Romney.
It's more than a narrow win. Having the same number of Rs and Ds is a heavy bias towards Republicans. Because that's just not the way people ID themselves in this country.
And he won with by 7% in a poll that has at least a 5% bias for Republicans. If the poll had reflected the way the electorate actually looks, it would be a double digit win.
| 235 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:41:13pm |
re: #226 The Mongoose
I believe the CBS poll (which may not be final) was showing 37-30. Similar story...slight edge to the president. Nothing too surprising. I expected it to be within 5 but 7 doesn't blow me away.
37 to 30 is not a "slight edge." And this is a poll of "uncommitted voters," possibly the smallest demographic in the US today.
| 236 |
austin_blue Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:41:37pm |
Well, major smack down by the Prez. Game on. Mittens is going to have a hard time recovering from that.
| 237 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:41:39pm |
re: #223 Charles Johnson
Fascinating how the conservatives immediately start yelling the same points in unison, isn't it?
"It was a draw."
Dream on.
Hive mind.
| 238 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:41:58pm |
| 239 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:42:19pm |
| 240 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:42:51pm |
re: #239 William Barnett-Lewis
All right! Just one more loss, boys, one more loss! ;)
Haha hopefully that happens next game.
| 241 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:42:56pm |
re: #235 Charles Johnson
37 to 30 is not a "slight edge." And this is a poll of "uncommitted voters," possibly the smallest demographic in the US today.
I think it is a slight edge. Mr Romney won the first debate by 42 points (CNN). 7 is a narrow win, especially when no one got 50%.
| 242 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:43:03pm |
re: #223 Charles Johnson
Fascinating how the conservatives immediately start yelling the same points in unison, isn't it?
"It was a draw."
Dream on.
If it was a draw according to conservatives that has to mean they felt something tickle them, even though they can't rationalize it, doesn't it?
| 243 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:43:04pm |
re: #230 kirkspencer
You know it's bad for them when they can't claim they won and instead have to harp on it being a draw.
Just like they did for Biden-Ryan.
And tomorrow will likely also be the same story at Biden/Ryan: Obama was "angry," "rude," "mean," and "disrespectful."
| 244 |
Lidane Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:43:28pm |
re: #238 Decatur Deb
Damn. That was fast, and it'll last a few weeks.
@RomneyBinders exists. So does #BindersFullOfWomen.
| 245 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:43:56pm |
re: #243 Targetpractice
And tomorrow will likely also be the same story at Biden/Ryan: Obama was "angry," "rude," "mean," and "disrespectful."
I don't think he was any of those things. I'd be surprised if the GOP tries that message.
| 246 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:43:57pm |
re: #243 Targetpractice
And tomorrow will likely also be the same story at Biden/Ryan: Obama was "angry," "rude," "mean," and "disrespectful."
Yep and being totally oblivious to the fact that Romney actually was just that or defending it because of their extreme ODS.
| 247 |
Destro Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:44:20pm |
re: #212 Charles Johnson
What do you know. Romney's touching story about his "binder full of women" was another lie.
Candy Crowley is absolutely being removed from Romney's Binders tonight #Binders #Debate
— Romney Binders (@RomneyBinders) October 17, 2012
| 248 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:44:24pm |
re: #233 makeitstop
He did mention natural gas - as much as the format would allow.
...as much as the format and the intellect of the audience would allow....
| 249 |
makeitstop Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:44:38pm |
re: #209 researchok
So the media were all wrong in questioning the WH and the administration for weeks.
And the WH and administration were right to stonewall.
Where, exactly, did I say any of that?
I pointed out that you were playing semantic games with the president's quote. Nothing more.
| 250 |
b_sharp Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:45:41pm |
re: #196 philosophus invidius
CNN "scientific" poll: 67% of [braindead?] Americans think Romney won
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
That was from the first debate.
| 252 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:45:51pm |
re: #245 The Mongoose
I don't think he was any of those things. I'd be surprised if the GOP tries that message.
Of course they will. Because the black man was not completely subservient to the white man. That's what this is all about.
| 253 |
austin_blue Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:46:18pm |
re: #241 The Mongoose
I think it is a slight edge. Mr Romney won the first debate by 42 points (CNN). 7 is a narrow win, especially when no one got 50%.
This debate was crucial. The next will be more so. Early voting has started in numerous states. This was a critical "Whoa" moment for early voters.
| 254 |
boredtechindenver Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:47:07pm |
Every instapoll tonight has declared @barackobama the winner.Wins indies big in PPP CO poll.And wins on key mid class q with undecideds.— Ben LaBolt (@BenLaBolt) October 17, 2012
| 255 |
Targetpractice Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:47:43pm |
re: #245 The Mongoose
I don't think he was any of those things. I'd be surprised if the GOP tries that message.
It's going to be what they'll focus on in the five minutes on Benghazi where Willard got his ass handed to him. They're already pissed that Crowley spoke up, accusing her of "taking sides" and acting "like a ref throwing the flag."
| 256 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:47:58pm |
There is almost exactly enough time left to get in contact with organizers to help GOTV. This thing is way too close.
| 257 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:48:29pm |
re: #253 austin_blue
This debate was crucial. The next will be more so. Early voting has started in numerous states. This was a critical "Whoa" moment for early voters.
It's definitely worth pointing out that debate wins can have wildly differing effects in the days after. John Kerry won the first debate of the 2004 election 61-19 in one poll; it didn't save him. Big wins can fizzle, small wins can explode.
| 258 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:48:50pm |
re: #245 The Mongoose
I don't think he was any of those things. I'd be surprised if the GOP tries that message.
The right wing blogs are already doing it.
| 260 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:50:12pm |
re: #241 The Mongoose
I think it is a slight edge. Mr Romney won the first debate by 42 points (CNN). 7 is a narrow win, especially when no one got 50%.
CNN has it 71% to 29%
ABC has it 66% to 26%
But none of these polls are scientific.
| 261 |
krypto Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:50:32pm |
The claim being hatched and circulated in the Rightwing Blog Space now is that Candy Crowley now says that Romney was right in his claims about what Obama said and didn't say in the Rose Garden about Benghazi.
Does anyone have the inside story on this? I'm just wondering, since often righties misquote and spin and none of those claims that I read gave a source or an exact quote.
| 262 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:52:39pm |
re: #258 Charles Johnson
The right wing blogs are already doing it.
Well, I suppose I disagree with them then. I thought both candidates had rather petulant, unpresidential moments, but not that many. Certainly I didn't see the President being noticeably worse on that score. For the most part I think he had a good night...but I thought the same of Mr. Romney (given the polls, clearly not as good a night).
| 263 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 8:55:01pm |
re: #260 moderatelyradicalliberal
CNN has it 71% to 29%
ABC has it 66% to 26%
But none of these polls are scientific.
I have no interest in the website polls, no matter which way they go. They're completely useless. One gets freeped, another gets kos'd. The scientific polls tonight are aligned: Obama by 7. That's what I'm taking away.
| 264 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:00:00pm |
re: #204 The Mongoose
46-39 Obama.
Don't forget the special notes:
SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 33% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about 8 points more Republican than an average of CNN polls taken in 2012 of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public.
So Obama won handily with the deck stacked against him.
| 265 |
efuseakay Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:01:58pm |
The. Only. Poll. That. Matters. Is. On. Election. Day.
Get out and vote. Regardless of your choice, it's important.
| 266 |
Destro Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:02:08pm |
re: #261 krypto
The claim being hatched and circulated in the Rightwing Blog Space now is that Candy Crowley now says that Romney was right in his claims about what Obama said and didn't say in the Rose Garden about Benghazi.
Does anyone have the inside story on this?
The right is trying to save Romney's fuck up on the fact that Obama said "acts of terror" as if that is somehow different than saying "terrorists". Because the right wing is so stupid with the English language they need the president to dumb it down to a kindergarden level. They want the president to be like Bush and use baby words like "evil doers", "bad guys" or to borrow a line from "Blazing Saddles: rustlers, cutthroats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, half-wits, dim-wits, vipers, snipers, con men, indian agents, mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwackers, hornswagglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass kickers, shit kickers, and methodists!
But don't use words of allusion like "acts of terror"!!!!
Actual Obama transcript:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
| 267 |
The Mongoose Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:04:35pm |
re: #264 goddamnedfrank
Don't forget the special notes:
So Obama won handily with the deck stacked against him.
Yeah, that note is interesting...it might indicate that Republicans were more likely to watch the debate than democrats. Or it might just be an unusual sample.
| 268 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:11:31pm |
re: #267 The Mongoose
Yeah, that note is interesting...it might indicate that Republicans were more likely to watch the debate than democrats. Or it might just be an unusual sample.
It's because these kinds of post debate polls require two calls, one to set up the audience to get them to agree to watch the debate, plus a callback to get the results. That inherently skews to an older group which is increases Republicans counted because it's hard enough to get younger people on the phone once, let alone get to them agree to be bothered answering a second polling phone call. They also don't state if the poll includes cell phones, if it doesn't that skews older again.
| 269 |
Ming Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:14:23pm |
Obama did very well, obviously. I don't think we'll know, until at least a day or longer, how this affects the polls, because what happened tonight may be unprecedented in American history: Romney, who lies as easily as he breathes, was all-but-explicitly called out on his lying. Are Americans getting tired of Romney's lies by now? Tired of never knowing what Romney will say, never having a clue what Romney would actually do as President? Personally, I think a healthy person would naturally feel insulted when they're lied to. I don't see how people can see Romney on TV, time and time again, saying completely different things from day to day, and not be fed up.
| 270 |
Blizard Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:19:08pm |
Just checking in from the road, looks like it was a good night then! Wow, so much reading up to do.
| 271 |
Joanne Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:22:51pm |
re: #54 moderatelyradicalliberal
I don't expect the press to give Obama props. The truth is it was the left wing presses response to the first debate that hurt him. Not so much that Romney did well.
As usual the left does more damage to himself than the otherside.
Can't remember where I read it: when the right hears stuff it doesn't like, they want to kill someone. When the left hears stuff it doesn't like, they want to kill themselves. re: #98 Charles Johnson
It was also bullshit.
"@markos: Try not to act too shocked, but binder story is bullshit: [Link: t.co...]
| 272 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:31:28pm |
re: #143 researchok
No, he did not say the Libya event wasw an act of terror.
What he did say was that acts of terror will be responded to.
See the timeline of statements
True, but I think that can reasonably be construed to mean 'such as this one'.
I'm not happy with how the whole thing was handled, but he did say that, and it's pretty clear.
| 273 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:34:49pm |
re: #167 Charles Johnson
Could not possibly disagree more. I think it's absolutely ridiculous to call what we just saw a "draw." It was a trip to the woodshed for Mitt Romney.
I don't think I'd go so far as that. I think it was a win for Obama, on points, but not a knockout.
| 274 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:36:03pm |
re: #170 researchok
As it turned out, it was an act of terror- period.
The video thing confused things for a while.
| 275 |
Sophist, Gingham Style Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:43:25pm |
re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist
True, but I think that can reasonably be construed to mean 'such as this one'.
To hell with "can reasonably be construed", he referred to the even in such a way than no honest person with a basic understanding of the English language could believe he was not calling it an act of terror.
Period.
| 276 |
krypto Tue, Oct 16, 2012 9:52:00pm |
re: #261 krypto
The claim being hatched and circulated in the Rightwing Blog Space now is that Candy Crowley now says that Romney was right in his claims about what Obama said and didn't say in the Rose Garden about Benghazi.
Does anyone have the inside story on this? I'm just wondering, since often righties misquote and spin and none of those claims that I read gave a source or an exact quote.
I see this came from an interview of Candy Crowley by Anderson Cooper after the debate.
As I suspected, the claim that Crowley retracted her comment is untrue. There is a video of the interview right on CNN, and she starts off by confirming that Obama did indeed refer to it as terrorism - she does not retract that. But then she goes on to offer excuses for Romney, to make it the usual half-right thing (which she intended at the time by her "but it took two weeks to sink in" or something like that) -- and apparently rightwingers listening to that hear only the part of it they want to hear.
I see someone posted the actual transcript, which clearly does show Obama saying what he and Crowley said he said.
| 277 |
KiTA Tue, Oct 16, 2012 10:45:25pm |
re: #245 The Mongoose
Of course they will. It's a dog whistle for the racist right. "Scary Angry Black Man" and all that.
| 278 |
Destro Tue, Oct 16, 2012 11:27:49pm |
re: #276 krypto
I see this came from an interview of Candy Crowley by Anderson Cooper after the debate.
As I suspected, the claim that Crowley retracted her comment is untrue. There is a video of the interview right on CNN, and she starts off by confirming that Obama did indeed refer to it as terrorism - she does not retract that. But then she goes on to offer excuses for Romney, to make it the usual half-right thing (which she intended at the time by her "but it took two weeks to sink in" or something like that) -- and apparently rightwingers listening to that hear only the part of it they want to hear.
I see someone posted the actual transcript, which clearly does show Obama saying what he and Crowley said he said.
It was an act of terror but they did not know if it was part of plot or just a spontaneous attack at the time. Intel takes time to accumulate.
But Obama did not excuse the attack or down play it. If the president says Americans were victims of "an act of terror" on day one he is not fucking around.
| 279 |
BillyCrims Wed, Oct 17, 2012 8:00:40am |
The worst part of the debate was watching them argue about who wanted to develop (and burn) the most fossil fuels. The moderator was supposed to follow up if important points were missed. After that discussion she should have stepped up and asked a question about climate change.
| 280 |
wiffersnapper Wed, Oct 17, 2012 8:02:21am |
It seemed much more even this time around.
| 281 |
Aye Pod Wed, Oct 17, 2012 12:50:11pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
He wanted to hire competent women for leadership positions and you compare him a serial killer?! Charles, I like and respect you but that is just over the line.
Dexter is a likeable character with a recognisable moral code. I don't think Charles was suggesting that Romney possesses either attribute.
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