Libya Attack Investigation: No Evidence of Planning or Al Qaeda Involvement

The right wing will have to find a new fake outrage (and they will)
World • Views: 34,860

The latest report from the investigation into the Benghazi attack finds no evidence of Al Qaeda involvement, and no evidence of advance planning.

WASHINGTON — The assault on the U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi last month appears to have been an opportunistic attack rather than a long-planned operation, and intelligence agencies have found no evidence that it was ordered by Al Qaeda, according to U.S. officials and witnesses interviewed in Libya.

The circumstances of the Sept. 11 attack have become a matter of heated political debate, with President Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney clashing in their debate Tuesday about when Obama termed the assault an act of terrorism. But the emerging picture painted by intelligence officials and witnesses differs from the assertions of both sides.

Republicans have zeroed in on possible Al Qaeda ties to the Sept. 11 attack that killed Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans, and have criticized the Obama administration for not saying early on that it was an act of terrorism. But after five weeks of investigation, U.S. intelligence agencies say they have found no evidence of Al Qaeda participation.

The attack was “carried out following a minimum amount of planning,” said a U.S. intelligence official, who, like others, spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a matter still under investigation. “The attackers exhibited a high degree of disorganization. Some joined the attack in progress, some did not have weapons and others just seemed interested in looting.”

Jump to bottom

124 comments
1 Targetpractice  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:32:41pm

COVER-UP!

2 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:33:21pm
3 gwangung  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:35:47pm

re: #2 Gus

Republicans have a habit of burning intelligence assets for short term political gain.

4 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:37:32pm

Howls from the Right about a new cover-up to cover-up the old cover-up in 5, 4, 3,...oops, too late.

5 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:38:04pm

re: #1 Targetpractice

Oh, no doubt.

6 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:39:06pm

Al Qaeda never misses the chance to take credit for these sorts of attacks. They haven't said a word which should be a first guess.

7 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:39:08pm

10 Million Standard Galactic Credits says that Romney will attack Obama, maybe even during the next debate, for going off half-cocked and prematurely calling the attack an act of terror before all the facts were in.

8 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:41:05pm

AFAIK-Non AQ attackers is really the only explanation that says video outrage as the motive. I mean how could any AQ guy not be thrilled at the date for it's bragging value?

9 Big Joe  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:41:19pm

re: #7 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

10 Million Standard Galactic Credits says that Romney will attack Obama, maybe even during the next debate, for going off half-cocked and prematurely calling the attack an act of terror before all the facts were in.

Poe's Law no longer applies.

10 Tigger2  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:41:26pm

re: #7 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

10 Million Standard Galactic Credits says that Romney will attack Obama, maybe even during the next debate, for going off half-cocked and prematurely calling the attack an act of terror before all the facts were in.

And 10 Million Standard Galactic Credits says he shoots himself in the foot trying it. lol

11 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:42:23pm
12 darthstar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:43:45pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Brit Hume is one of the biggest pieces of shit on the networks.

13 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:46:06pm

The important thing to remember is that Mitt Romney actually had to be asked by the mom of a dead SEAL that dry humping her son's corpse for political gain was an improper, disgusting thing to do. That's just the kind of tactless motherfucker he is.

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney will no longer bring up Glen Doherty, a former Navy SEAL killed in the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya, the campaign said Wednesday in response to a complaint from Doherty's mother.

...

Boston's WHDH later reached out to Doherty's mother, Barbara, to get her reaction to Romney's campaign trail anecdote.

"I don't trust Romney. He shouldn't make my son's death part of his political agenda," she told WHDH. "It's wrong to use these brave young men, who wanted freedom for all, to degrade Obama.”

...

"Mitt Romney approached him ultimately four times, using this private gathering as a political venture to further his image," Ellefsen told KIRO. "He kept introducing himself as Mitt Romney, a political figure. The same introduction, the same opening line ... [Doherty] said it was pathetic and comical to have the same person come up to you within only a half hour, have this person reintroduce himself to you, having absolutely no idea whatsoever that he just did this 20 minutes ago, and did not even recognize Glen's face."

Imagine that, being ridiculed as inauthentic by someone and then later trying to cynically exploit their death for an electoral advantage, that's Mitt Romney for you.

14 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:47:09pm

re: #8 Daniel Ballard

AFAIK-Non AQ attackers is really the only explanation that says video outrage as the motive. I mean how could any AQ guy not be thrilled at the date for it's bragging value?

The motive could be anything: The movie, still could be AQ, maybe just a target of opportunity with the ambassador in town or just the 9-11 date. The article does seem to indicate it was a local attack which may make sense with the US moving drones and special forces into the area, I wouldn't rule anything out at this point.

15 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:47:50pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

The motive could be anything: The movie, still could be AQ, maybe just a target of opportunity with the ambassador in town or just the 9-11 date. The article does seem to indicate it was a local attack which may make sense with the US moving drones and special forces into the area, I wouldn't rule anything out at this point.

Concur.

16 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:48:51pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

The attackers themselves said they were angry about the video.

17 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:49:34pm

There is no final report yet. So everything I'm reading I'll just look at as Benghazi trutherism.

18 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:49:47pm

I sense a great many goal posts shifting.

19 gwangung  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:49:59pm

I get a sense of republican attackers trying to pound round pegs into square holes.

20 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:50:39pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

For it to be anything but all about 9/11 on 9/11 is just counter-intuitive. Nonsensical. But stranger things have happened. It was what it was. Details to follow still but the predominance of data now says video.

So again the terrorists empower those they should hate the most-Those who will now certainly continue to mock their prophet.

21 Targetpractice  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:50:43pm

re: #18 Varek Raith

I sense a great many goal posts shifting.

I see a lot of pitchforks and torches in the LA Times' future.

22 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:50:48pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

The attackers themselves said they were angry about the video.

But what do they know?

23 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:51:14pm

Well, I'm now much better. Enough Anti-Depressants to kill a horse, and I have a full time job, and psych I talk to weekly.

Things were looking up.....then I got home from work. My Imam has said for months that Lebanon was one bad incident from another Civil War. 4-5 of my friends come from Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.

This frightens me so, so much.

24 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:51:16pm

Nothing occurs in a vacuum. If the makers of the video weren't counting on it generating substantial unrest they wouldn't have tried to redirect the blowback onto a fictional Jewish filmmaker and fake Israeli investors.

25 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:52:26pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

The attackers themselves said they were angry about the video.

That doesn't mean they hadn't planned the damn thing in advance. They could have had this attack as a 'pigeon-holed' plan that they drew out when the video came to light. The whole method of attack still says they had some planning and training. Their use of RPGs and MGs as cover fire and their locating the ambassadors safe house suggest this.

26 bratwurst  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:52:45pm

Many weeks later and I am STILL at a loss to understand why Mitt Romney supporters are so up in arms about when Obama called this "terrorism".

And as far as not bringing anyone to justice...it took Bush 18 months to capture KSM and it took Obama to get Bin Laden.

27 Targetpractice  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:53:07pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

That doesn't mean they hadn't planned the damn thing in advance. They could have had this attack as a 'pigeon-holed' plan that they drew out when the video came to light. The whole method of attack still says they had some planning and training. Their use of RPGs and MGs as cover fire and their locating the ambassadors safe house suggest this.

Is it impossible that militia, guys who've got months of battlefield experience, could have put the whole thing together on the fly?

28 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:53:08pm

re: #24 goddamnedfrank

Nothing occurs in a vacuum. If the makers of the video weren't counting on it generating substantial unrest they wouldn't have tried to redirect the blowback onto a fictional Jewish filmmaker and fake Israeli investors.

That is a truth.

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:53:23pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

The attackers themselves said they were angry about the video.

True, and I'm sure they were, but that does not mean that they were a. telling the whole truth about how they ended up there or b. not having their anger exploited for other purposes.

I'm ready to believe AQ isn't involved, but more skeptical of pure spontaneity.

30 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:53:28pm

Wont even slow Issa down though, since supposedly he is concentrating on the "security failure" rather than an intelligence one. It would be nice to know why he felt the need to publish all those State Department cables that had nothing whatsoever to do with discussing embassy or consulate security though, wouldn't it? Grandstanding partisan douchebag fuckwit... *grumbles incoherently*

31 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:54:33pm

re: #23 ProGunLiberal

Well, I'm now much better. Enough Anti-Depressants to kill a horse, and I have a full time job, and psych I talk to weekly.

Things were looking up.....then I got home from work. My Imam has said for months that Lebanon was one bad incident from another Civil War. 4-5 of my friends come from Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.

This frightens me so, so much.

Woah, LTNS!!!

Hope you have your head in a better place these days.

32 Targetpractice  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:54:48pm

re: #26 bratwurst

Many weeks later and I am STILL at a loss to understand why Mitt Romney supporters are so up in arms about when Obama called this "terrorism". And as far as not bringing anyone to justice...it took Bush 18 months to capture KSM and it took Obama to get Bin Laden.

You have to follow their (il)logic, which says that Obama "refusing" to call it terrorism is proof of a "cover-up," which supposedly started when it got back to the White House that the whole thing was an Al-Q attack, which hurt Obama's campaign because he's running on having Al-Q on the run and an attack by them that killed one of our ambassadors would be proof that that's not true.

It's insane troll logic.

33 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:54:56pm

re: #27 Targetpractice

Is it impossible that militia, guys who've got months of battlefield experience, could have put the whole thing together on the fly?

Not impossible, but unlikely. This next is only speculation, but perhaps they were planning an attack for a later time but decided to run with it when the Cairo protests broke out.

34 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:55:08pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

That doesn't mean they hadn't planned the damn thing in advance. They could have had this attack as a 'pigeon-holed' plan that they drew out when the video came to light. The whole method of attack still says they had some planning and training. Their use of RPGs and MGs as cover fire and their locating the ambassadors safe house suggest this.

It's also worth noting that we still don't know who the attackers were so their motivations can only be speculated. There are plenty of contradictory accounts going around which make it easy for people to pick and choose. We'll learn more eventually.

35 Digital Display  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:55:42pm

re: #23 ProGunLiberal
Nice too see you again dude

36 Targetpractice  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:56:15pm

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

Not impossible, but unlikely. This next is only speculation, but perhaps they were planning an attack for a later time but decided to run with it when the Cairo protests broke out.

Plausible, I've run the scenario through my head before. But still, a plan is useless without motivation. So far, I've not seen any indication that this attack was motivated by anything other than anger over the video.

37 Sionainn  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:56:31pm

re: #26 bratwurst

Many weeks later and I am STILL at a loss to understand why Mitt Romney supporters are so up in arms about when Obama called this "terrorism".

And as far as not bringing anyone to justice...it took Bush 18 months to capture KSM and it took Obama to get Bin Laden.

You and me, both.

38 JamesWI  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:56:55pm

re: #27 Targetpractice

Is it impossible that militia, guys who've got months of battlefield experience, could have put the whole thing together on the fly?

A large group of militants with a large number of guns would have needed months to plan an attack as complicated as "Have a bunch of militants with guns storm this building." I'm sure it took just as long as 9/11. Very complex stuff./

39 gwangung  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:57:05pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

It's also worth noting that we still don't know who the attackers were so their motivations can only be speculated. There are plenty of contradictory accounts going around which make it easy for people to pick and choose. We'll learn more eventually.

Given that, it seems stupid to be bleating bout intelligence failures.

40 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:58:15pm

re: #31 MittDoesNotCompute

The meds I am on now are at such high doses, it would knock down and Elephant, and the psych got me screwed on straighter.

However, Lebanon now has my full and undivided attention. I think this could be what my Imam spoke of. Still can't believe that the March 8th Alliance would be dumb enough to do this.

My Granddad's reaction was the same as mine. Namely "Oh Bloody Hell."

41 Sionainn  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:58:53pm

re: #23 ProGunLiberal

Well, I'm now much better. Enough Anti-Depressants to kill a horse, and I have a full time job, and psych I talking to weekly.

Things were looking up.....then I got home from work. My Imam has said for months that Lebanon was one bad incident from another Civil War. 4-5 of my friends come from Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.

This frightens me so, so much.

Glad to see you back and also happy that you are getting help!

42 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:58:53pm

re: #23 ProGunLiberal

Well, I'm now much better. Enough Anti-Depressants to kill a horse, and I have a full time job, and psych I talk to weekly.

Things were looking up.....then I got home from work. My Imam has said for months that Lebanon was one bad incident from another Civil War. 4-5 of my friends come from Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.

This frightens me so, so much.

Good to hear.

43 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:59:03pm

re: #29 SanFranciscoZionist

...more skeptical of pure spontaneity.

The Islamists who carried out the attack were members of well-armed extremist militias, with their own compounds. It would take them very little time to put together an attack like this. They were trained for it.

44 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 6:59:26pm

re: #36 Targetpractice

Plausible, I've run the scenario through my head before. But still, a plan is useless without motivation. So far, I've not seen any indication that this attack was motivated by anything other than anger over the video.

As Islamists, they likely hated us already. The video was just the spark that ignited already stored explosive rage.

45 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:00:02pm

re: #23 ProGunLiberal

Well, I'm now much better. Enough Anti-Depressants to kill a horse, and I have a full time job, and psych I talk to weekly.

Things were looking up.....then I got home from work. My Imam has said for months that Lebanon was one bad incident from another Civil War. 4-5 of my friends come from Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.

This frightens me so, so much.

I am very glad to see you better and to have you back.

46 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:02:27pm

OT I do not have to post a page yet but the buttons for posting are gone. How do you post a page?

47 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:03:17pm

Guess who!

48 Digital Display  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:03:36pm

America learned another hard lesson 9-11. It's not that important why it happened. It's that it never happens again for me.
I can promise you there will be plenty of security surrounding diplomats from now on.
God bless our Americans for going into the snakepits of the world..and putting their lives in Harms way.
they are the best of America and who we are

49 Targetpractice  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:03:49pm

re: #44 Dark_Falcon

As Islamists, they likely hated us already. The video was just the spark that ignited already stored explosive rage.

Tinder requires a spark to become fire. Plans may have been drawn, even sketchy ones. And plans made by battle-hardened militiamen with plenty of arms at their disposal probably had a better chance than lightly armed civilians who would have been stopped at property destruction. But something motivated the men to put that plan into motion. And again, there's nothing to back up speculation of Al-Q involvement.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:03:53pm

re: #43 Charles Johnson

The Islamists who carried out the attack were members of well-armed extremist militias, with their own compounds. It would take them very little time to put together an attack like this. They were trained for it.

Well, yes.

51 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:04:02pm

re: #47 Gus

Well, that makes sense... Wait. What?

52 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:04:33pm

re: #51 calochortus

Well, that makes sense... Wait. What?

Ben Shapiro hard at work.

53 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:04:51pm

re: #47 Gus

Guess who!

[Embedded content]

My head.

54 Sionainn  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:04:56pm

re: #46 PhillyPretzel

OT I do not have to post a page yet but the buttons for posting are gone. How do you post a page?

Charles is working on the page index or some such gobbledly gook.

55 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:05:22pm

re: #47 Gus

Guess who!

davidfrum @davidfrum

Who's to blame for Benghazi? A Townhall columnist says: it's the gays. thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/…

i'm ben and he's ghazi?

56 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:05:34pm

Thanks to all of you. The psych pushed me to realize that I was becoming what I hate, which is sobering.

I am wondering, is my fear regarding Lebanon and Civil War justified? To me, it seems rational. Considering the victim, I think the culprits were Hezbollah and the March 8th Movement, the former led by Hassan Nasrallah, and the latter being dominated by both Hezbollah and Michel Aoun's FPM.

57 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:05:50pm

re: #52 Gus

I am happy to report that I have no idea who Ben Shapiro is, but apparently he needs a different hobby.

58 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:05:56pm

re: #54 Sionainn

Okay. Thanks. It was okay before but I could not get the tags to work properly.

59 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:06:18pm

re: #57 calochortus

I am happy to report that I have no idea who Ben Shapiro is, but apparently he needs a different hobby.

I think he's part of Breitbart.com. But that may be another right wing Ben.

60 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:06:43pm

The video did rile shit up all over the world. This map shows some 39 or so locations where shit went down. The cable that the Egyptian embassy put out and the notion that the Benghazi attack was at least somewhat related to the protests was and is entirely reasonable. The fact that the intelligence community and the administration didn't have 20/20 vision in a real time shit storm shouldn't be viewed as any kind of a failing on their part.

The most disgusting and predictable thing though is that Romney and the Republicans have been desperately trying to exploit the deaths of American diplomats, State Department workers, a class of government employee that they openly distain and disrespect.

Edited to add link.

61 JamesWI  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:06:58pm

re: #52 Gus

Ben Shapiro hard at work.

One needs only to look at his Twitter avatar to see that this is probably a cry for help, coming from a locked closet.

[Link: twitter.com...]

62 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:06:59pm

re: #59 HappyWarrior

I think he's part of Breitbart.com. But that may be another right wing Ben.

It doesn't sound like we need more than one.

63 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:08:01pm

re: #62 calochortus

It doesn't sound like we need more than one.

Ha. True enough.

64 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:08:34pm

re: #56 ProGunLiberal

Thanks to all of you. The psych pushed me to realize that I was becoming what I hate, which is sobering.

I am wondering, is my fear regarding Lebanon and Civil War justified? To me, it seems rational. Considering the victim, I think the culprits were Hezbollah and the March 8th Movement, the former led by Hassan Nasrallah, and the latter being dominated by both Hezbollah and Michel Aoun's FPM.

No, your fear isn't irrational. Syria was deep into Lebanon's affairs and both Syria and Hezbollah are clients of Iran.

65 nines09  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:08:51pm

re: #47 Gus

Spoken like a Kodak Projectionist.re: #61 JamesWI

One needs only to look at his Twitter avatar to see that this is probably a cry for help, coming from a locked closet.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Projecting like a Kodak Overhead.

66 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:09:13pm

Burning Man comes to Texas?

Big Tex Burned Down Today at the State Fair

Big Tex on fire

Big Tex was finished in 1952, the same year as the UN Headquarters in New York. Coincidence? Yeah, sure. Perhaps some patriot finally identified this secret surveillance installation for what it was and decided to do something about it.

67 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:09:21pm

re: #23 ProGunLiberal

It is good to see you back. :)

68 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:10:55pm

re: #61 JamesWI

One needs only to look at his Twitter avatar to see that this is probably a cry for help, coming from a locked closet.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Fabulous smile!

69 nines09  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:11:14pm

re: #66 Shiplord Kirel

Burning Man comes to Texas?

Big Tex Burned Down Today at the State Fair

Big Tex on fire

Is it me, or does it look a little like Jimi?

70 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:11:14pm

re: #57 calochortus

I am happy to report that I have no idea who Ben Shapiro is, but apparently he needs a different hobby.

Remember the Breitbart "Derrick Bell exclusive" that was going to "destroy Obama"? This is him in the center. Joel Pollak is on the right. They're both from Breitbart.

Image: Hannity-Shapiro-Pollak.jpg

71 HappyWarrior  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:11:57pm

re: #70 Gus

Remember the Breitbart "Derrick Bell exclusive" that was going to "destroy Obama"? This is him in the center. Joel Pollak is on the right. They're both from Breitbart.

Image: Hannity-Shapiro-Pollak.jpg

That's right. Knew I knew that name from somewhere.

72 Targetpractice  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:12:10pm

As I read this, I can hear my old man watching FNC in the living room, getting fed garbage about how the security requests in Libya were denied because if they were granted, then it would have "become clear" that the situation in Libya was increasingly untenable and people would have stopped seeing Libya as a "victory" for Obama.

73 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:12:17pm

re: #70 Gus

Ah yes. Thanks.

74 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:12:37pm

re: #70 Gus

They look as though they are related. That is scary.

75 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:12:58pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

I have think that Israel and Jordan are both going "Oh Crap" right now. Israel's Northern Flank looks to be about inflamed with Civil War, and if I'm not mistaken, Jordan is having major economic issues from supporting the Libyan Revolutions and Syrian Refugees. I don't think they could cope with Lebanese refugees.

76 gwangung  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:13:56pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

Tinder requires a spark to become fire. Plans may have been drawn, even sketchy ones. And plans made by battle-hardened militiamen with plenty of arms at their disposal probably had a better chance than lightly armed civilians who would have been stopped at property destruction. But something motivated the men to put that plan into motion. And again, there's nothing to back up speculation of Al-Q involvement.

Could have been an existing plan....and if they had time to plan more, there's the possibility that intelligence could have picked it up and stopped it. The haste could have been a factor in why it had success.....

(Yes, there was a lot of hypotheticals here...bu t that's all we screwing with here)

77 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:13:59pm

re: #72 Targetpractice

As I read this, I can hear my old man watching FNC in the living room, getting fed garbage about how the security requests in Libya were denied because if they were granted, then it would have "become clear" that the situation in Libya was increasingly untenable and people would have stopped seeing Libya as a "victory" for Obama.

Because the whole election was going to center on Obama's actions with regards to Libya. Got it.

78 Digital Display  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:16:04pm

re: #69 nines09

Is it me, or does it look a little like Jimi?

Well the new Big Tex will be updated.. They'll add new words..like I'm on Fire please call 911.
Hi I'm big Tex sponsored by the Citi Group

79 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:17:35pm

re: #66 Shiplord Kirel

Burning Man comes to Texas?

Big Tex Burned Down Today at the State Fair

Big Tex on fire

klaatu barada nikto!

80 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:18:32pm

re: #75 ProGunLiberal

I have think that Israel and Jordan are both going "Oh Crap" right now. Israel's Northern Flank looks to be about inflamed with Civil War, and if I'm not mistaken, Jordan is having major economic issues from supporting the Libyan Revolutions and Syrian Refugees. I don't think they could cope with Lebanese refugees.

Lebanon is a long ways away from being fixed but I don;t think the country is primed for civil war. Assad is on his way down and is going to attempt to create as much chaos as possible in Lebanon and Turkey as he can. Assad won;t last much longer. Hezbollah may limp along with Iranian backing but the Lebanese aren't going to put up with a whole lot of shit from them. Especially the drone flights over Israel, continued assassination of Lebanese officials. They'll eventually figure out Hezbollah has to go.

81 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:19:02pm

re: #74 PhillyPretzel

All three of them do.

re: #78 Digital Display

I hope it wasn't a bunch chuckles setting it on fire. We had an exciting night last night in COS.

82 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:19:14pm

re: #46 PhillyPretzel

OT I do not have to post a page yet but the buttons for posting are gone. How do you post a page?

Reload and there's now a big button labeled "Create a Page."

83 nines09  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:19:44pm

re: #78 Digital Display

Smoke alarms maybe. Sirens like Conelrad. Signs saying "If you see me smoking it's not cigars."

84 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:20:08pm

re: #74 PhillyPretzel

They look as though they are related.

Now that you mention it.

85 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:20:25pm

re: #82 Charles Johnson

Thank you Charles.

86 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:20:47pm

re: #84 Gus

lol

87 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:20:48pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout

My Imam, who lived in Lebanon in his youth and survived Sabra and Shitila, had a different view, especially from his friends in Lebanon. He said about a month ago that he thought Lebanon was one bad incident away from Civil War.

88 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:21:36pm

re: #87 ProGunLiberal

Nothing against your Imam, but I sure hope he's wrong.

89 nines09  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:22:24pm

re: #84 Gus
Hi. I'm Daryl. And my brothers. Daryl and Daryl.

90 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:23:27pm

re: #88 calochortus

He's a Muslim hippie. He hates fighting alot. I hope he is wrong, but I could easily see this setting off something. What started the First LebCW?

91 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:26:26pm

re: #90 ProGunLiberal

As I understand it (poorly at best) it was extremely complicated, so I have no idea what would set things off again.
It seems to me the Middle East has had more than its share of disruption and suffering and I can only hope that things improve.

92 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:31:19pm

re: #91 calochortus

Remember how many convulsions Europe had before the current day. The History of Europe for hundreds of years was an Europe Wide wars every Generation or so.

Before the World Wars, the worst one was probably the Thirty Years War. That circus dragged dang near everyone in, including England, Scotland, and the Ottoman Empire. All on the fringes of Europe. Hell, even Morocco, not even touching Europe, became a major supplier for the Dutch, if I am not mistaken.

Also, where is everyone?

93 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:31:47pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

Okay they may well be telling the truth. Just try to understand ones my reluctance to take killers like that at their word. I find that kind no more credible (in general) than a GOP hack.

It is what it is, a video outrage moment of violence on the anniversary. One of the oddest coincidences I could posit.

94 b_sharp  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:32:28pm

Looking for the attack to be terrorist organized, or for it to be completely spontaneous is seeking a black or white answer. I think it will be found that it's complex enough to have more than a single cause*

* in the sense that an ultimate cause can be made up of a proximate and an ultimate.

95 nines09  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:32:37pm

re: #90 ProGunLiberal

With all due respect, that question would probably take 6 weeks to answer if there is one. Back to before the Ottoman Empire is my humble opinion. Makes the Irish "Troubles" look simplistic. Too much history and not enough forgiveness. It's good you are back. Stay back.

96 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:33:11pm

re: #91 calochortus

I guess what I am looking for is the 1st LebCW's equivalent to Fort Sumter.

97 freetoken  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:34:26pm

Big Daddy is unrepentant:


Murdoch comes out fighting to shareholders

After a year of being pummelled due to the phone-hacking scandal, Rupert Murdoch, chairman and chief executive officer of News Corp has made an impassioned and unapologetic plea to the company’s shareholders to keep faith with the management team who, he says, continues to deliver.

As he began the 2012 AGM, Murdoch acknowledged what he conceded was “serious wrongdoing” at News Corp for whom he said had suffered “a difficult period”. Yet if anyone was expecting a mea culpa it was not being delivered to the shareholders who he reminded that News Corp stock was nearly 45% up on the same period in 2011 despite the phone-hacking scandal and the subsequent failure to take full control of the cash machine that is BSkyB. Indeed, he said: “Notwithstanding our success, our company is undervalued.”

[...]

Shorter version: "We did wrong, but so what?"

98 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:35:15pm

re: #90 ProGunLiberal

What started the First LebCW?

most likely for americans the answer would be semester length

99 Gus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:36:23pm
100 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:37:38pm

re: #96 ProGunLiberal

I guess what I am looking for is the 1st LebCW's equivalent to Fort Sumter.

I have read that it was the attempted assassination of a Christian leader whose name I can't recall that triggered reprisals and things escalated from there, but I'm guessing it went back further.

101 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:38:30pm

I've got to say it.

Fine cast resin, not my favorite modelling material.

102 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:38:31pm

re: #99 Gus

[Embedded content]

Bam!

103 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:39:24pm

re: #100 calochortus

Oh, I know how far that sources of Conflict go. Likely to the Crusader States that formerly were in the same location.

I was looking for the spark that caused everything to get out of control. That sounds uncomfortably familiar.

104 calochortus  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:40:29pm

re: #103 ProGunLiberal

I think it is really hard to predict which spark will catch and cause a conflagration.

105 nines09  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:40:41pm

re: #99 Gus

Just got it. Boom.

106 jaunte  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:42:00pm

re: #99 Gus

Three solipsists using the alias 'Doc Dumpers'

107 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:42:09pm

Mr. Bean Speaks
Rowan Atkinson: we must be allowed to insult each other

Mr Atkinson said: "The clear problem of the outlawing of insult is that too many things can be interpreted as such. Criticism, ridicule, sarcasm, merely stating an alternative point of view to the orthodoxy, can be interpreted as insult."
...
Mr Atkinson said he hoped the repeal of Section 5 would pave the way for a move to "rewind the culture of censoriousness" and take on the "outrage industry - self-appointed arbiters of the public good encouraging outrage to which the police feel under terrible pressure to react".

Speaking at the Westminster launch of the campaign, he added: "The law should not be aiding and abetting the new intolerance."

108 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:43:06pm

re: #104 calochortus

I know, but the parallels here are creepy.

I suppose there is another way for this to go. Another Cedar Revolution. Cedar Revolution II: Cedar Harder.

109 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:43:35pm

re: #96 ProGunLiberal

I guess what I am looking for is the 1st LebCW's equivalent to Fort Sumter.

what would you say was the origin of the american civil war?

/rhetorical question

110 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:44:16pm

re: #109 engineer cat

Can I really answer, cause I think I have a run-down of a good one of it.

111 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:44:20pm

re: #108 ProGunLiberal

I know, but the parallels here are creepy.

I suppose there is another way for this to go. Another Cedar Revolution. Cedar Revolution II: Cedar Harder.

i cedar but she got away

112 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:44:50pm

re: #110 ProGunLiberal

Can I really answer, cause I think I have a run-down of a good one of it.

permission granted

(looks at watch)

113 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:45:14pm

re: #111 engineer cat

I knew I was walking into that.

I guess the rest of you need to get cracking on competing jokes.

114 b_sharp  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:45:51pm

re: #109 engineer cat

what would you say was the origin of the american civil war?

/rhetorical question

Conflict between conscientious environmentalists and the fossil fuel industry.

115 freetoken  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:48:04pm

On a totally different topic, while it's pretty clear that the popular media is incapable or unwilling to accurately explain science or highly technical issues, almost as bad are the press releases put out by academia and science organizations themselves.

The past couple of years there has been, alas, an increase in the need to sensationalize findings, discoveries, results, etc. A common trait is overstating how the new result differs from previously held ideas.

It's almost as if Murdoch has taken over the science press, too.

116 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:48:44pm

re: #114 Gangnam Style

Conflict between conscientious environmentalists and the fossil fuel industry.

and what's the origin of the third american civil war?

117 Kragar  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:48:48pm

re: #99 Gus

[Embedded content]

They are all assholes.

118 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:51:10pm

re: #112 engineer cat

The American Civil War was rooted in the differences between the North and South, namely on slavery. While, it wasn't originally a war to end slavery, it was started over the South's fear that Lincoln would abolish Slavery after his victory in 1860 Presidential Election. This caused most of the South to secede, and Lincoln decided to fight to keep the nation together.

Aggravating factors were the difference of Economy types (North was Industrial and the South was Agrarian). This caused a difference in terms of Tariff needs. But essentially, the flashpoint was slavery, and the Southern Gentry wanting to protect the horrid institution.

119 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:54:32pm

re: #76 gwangung

Could have been an existing plan....and if they had time to plan more, there's the possibility that intelligence could have picked it up and stopped it. The haste could have been a factor in why it had success.....

(Yes, there was a lot of hypotheticals here...bu t that's all we screwing with here)

Sometimes things built on improvisation can be major successes, my favorite example being the Ki-100. Maybe its that such things require an extra surge of creativity, or that by nature they move in unexpected directions.

120 engineer cat  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:56:44pm

re: #118 ProGunLiberal

The American Civil War was rooted in the differences between the North and South, namely on slavery. While, it wasn't originally a war to end slavery, it was started over the South's fear that Lincoln would abolish Slavery after his victory in 1860 Presidential Election. This caused most of the South to secede, and Lincoln decided to fight to keep the nation together.

Aggravating factors were the difference of Economy types (North was Industrial and the South was Agrarian). This caused a difference in terms of Tariff needs. But essentially, the flashpoint was slavery, and the Southern Gentry wanting to protect the horrid institution.

yes... my point was that fort sumter is meaningless without at least a few paragraphs giving it context

121 bulldurham  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 7:58:25pm

re: #118 ProGunLiberal

Recommendation: the first chapter of James McPherson's This Mighty Scourge is a good overview of (1) the causes of the Civil War and (2) revisionist attempts to obscure the fact that the South seceded over and fought to protect slavery.

122 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:23:46pm
The right wing will have to find a new fake outrage (and they will)

Oh this one isn't over yet. You can't kill a conspiracy. Any evidence contrary to the theory is just more proof of how far the other side will go to conceal the truth.

123 Mich-again  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:29:11pm

re: #118 ProGunLiberal

My take on the civil war is that it was the dumbest fought war in our history. Maybe history period. The outdated tactics were idiotic given the weapons that were being used.

124 CuriousLurker  Fri, Oct 19, 2012 9:46:38pm

re: #23 ProGunLiberal

Well, I'm now much better. Enough Anti-Depressants to kill a horse, and I have a full time job, and psych I talk to weekly.

Things were looking up.....then I got home from work. My Imam has said for months that Lebanon was one bad incident from another Civil War. 4-5 of my friends come from Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.

This frightens me so, so much.

re: #56 ProGunLiberal

Thanks to all of you. The psych pushed me to realize that I was becoming what I hate, which is sobering.

I don't know if you have notifications turned on for this thread and will see this, but I'm very happy to see that you're getting help. Welcome back and kudos to Charles for giving you a second chance.

As for all the awfulness that goes on in the world, it sucks, but there's not a lot we can do about it except to be the best people we can and keep striving to improve our own little corner of the world through educating ourselves, being just, and urging others towards justice, knowledge & tolerance.

Being afraid doesn't help anything or anyone; all it does is cloud your thinking. If it helps, think of your fear as the Shaytan whispering in your ear trying to distract you & make you miserable, then tell him to STFD & STFU.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 60 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 163 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1