The next presidential debate will deal with foreign policy, which is probably why the latest web ad from the Obama campaign is a satirical take on Mitt Romney’s many ludicrous foreign policy mistakes.
1 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Oct 20, 2012 10:44:23am |
We will see all of Mitt's "ideas" on Monday evening. Last debate on foreign policy to be shown on PBS.
| 3 |
AK-47% Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:06:47am |
On PBS? That wil be his final excuse then.."they were out to get me for wanting to fire Big Bird!"
| 4 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:08:35am |
re: #3 AK-47%
I would love to see Fred Rogers come back from the grave and give Mitt heck.
| 6 |
Someone Please Beam Me Up! Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:10:27am |
Charles, in the last thread, you asked whether anyone was having connection problems. I don't know whether you're still interested, but I had "connection failure" errors last night. I first had the problem around 11:15 PM (PDT), and I was able to connect again around 12:15 this morning.
| 7 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:11:12am |
Hi all! Been having isp problems, but I'm back... for now.
Anyway, PBS, huh.
Right into the bird's nest lion's den.
| 8 |
efuseakay Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:11:39am |
Expect Mitt to re-invent himself like he did in his first debate with the President.
| 9 |
efuseakay Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:16:41am |
Isn't this a good way to get your tax-exempt status revoked? I do plead some semblance of ignorance in this matter though.
| 10 |
God of Binders with Women Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:18:39am |
A severely conservative approach to foreign policy.
/
| 11 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:21:32am |
re: #6 Someone Please Beam Me Up!
Thanks. People have mentioned for quite some time that they have connection problems right around that time, and I know what was causing it -- our DB backup script. The script runs every night at about that time.
It should be fixed now -- the new servers have their own backup systems and I don't need to create my own any more, so I'm getting rid of that script.
| 12 |
wrenchwench Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:22:28am |
re: #10 God of Binders with Women
A severely conservative approach to foreign policy.
/
When Romney said, "We can pluck somebody out of the State Department", I thought, "Just like you pluck women out of your binders."
I was creeped out when the Labor Department in California became the Department of Human Resources. I get the feeling Romney looks at regular folks as a 'resource' to be mined or harvested, or plucked.
| 13 |
Gus Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:25:31am |
#IssaLeaks logo. #p2 #tlot #Obama #Obama2012 #ObamaBiden2012 #Romney #Libya #Benghazi #Republicans twitter.com/Gus_802/status...— Gus (@Gus_802) October 20, 2012
| 15 |
efuseakay Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:25:41am |
re: #12 wrenchwench
When Romney said, "We can pluck somebody out of the State Department", I thought, "Just like you pluck women out of your binders."
I was creeped out when the Labor Department in California became the Department of Human Resources. I get the feeling Romney looks at regular folks as a 'resource' to be mined or harvested, or plucked.
Copper Top.
| 16 |
wrenchwench Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:28:01am |
| 17 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:28:05am |
Beirut carbomb going off
Looks like possibly two bombs, one to get rescuers after the first. Or maybe the bomb was faulty and didn't detonate all at the same time.
| 18 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:31:15am |
re: #3 AK-47%
On PBS? That wil be his final excuse then.."they were out to get me for wanting to fire Big Bird!"
You don't fuck with Big Bird. Americans will put up with a lot, but not an attack on Big Bird.
Listening to songs from Sondheim's "Assassins". For some reason, every time the ghost of John Wilkes Booth responds to Guiseppe Zangara's complaint about his stomach pains with "Have you considered shooting Franklin Roosevelt?" I start laughing hysterically. This is probably not healthy.
(Zangara responds, "You think that help?" Booth: "It couldn't hurt.")
| 19 |
efuseakay Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:31:41am |
re: #16 wrenchwench
I had to look it up, even though I saw the movie...
But yeah.
There is no movie...
;)
| 20 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:32:37am |
re: #17 Killgore Trout
Beirut carbomb going off
[Embedded content]
Looks like possibly two bombs, one to get rescuers after the first. Or maybe the bomb was faulty and didn't detonate all at the same time.
Oh shit.
I'm so worried about what's happening today,
In the Middle East you know,
And I'm so worried about the baggage retrieval
system they got at Heathrow.
| 21 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:34:11am |
The site's running so fast today it's scaring me.
| 22 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:36:12am |
Weekly Standard: Spinning Benghazi
Ahead of what is sure to be a contentious presidential debate focusing on foreign policy on Monday, anonymous “intelligence officials” have decided to update the Benghazi story. “No evidence found of Al Qaeda role in Libya attack,” a Los Angeles Times headline reads. A Washington Post headline declares, “U.S.: Evidence doesn’t show planning in Libyan attack.”
There is just one problem: These new accounts don’t add up.
....
But these latest accounts are not intended to comb through the evidence carefully. They are intended to provide political cover ahead of the final presidential debate.
I'm a bit wary of media bias too but the press cover up story to help Obama doesn't work. It may dull Mitt's criticism some but it doesn't help Obama who has backtracked from "spontaneous movie protest" to "terrorist attack" and now has to double back to "premeditated but unorganized movie attack protest" sort of thing. It's a muddy picture and I'm sure the press and the president would like something a little less nuanced. MSM cover-up seems unlikely.
| 23 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:37:15am |
Mittens isn't a FP guy. He has lawyers for that.
Sheesh. Pretty clueless.
| 24 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:37:18am |
re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh shit.
I'm so worried about what's happening today,
In the Middle East you know,
And I'm so worried about the baggage retrieval
system they got at Heathrow.
Nice poem!
| 25 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:38:16am |
re: #22 Killgore Trout
Couldn't care less what the Weekly Standard has to say about this. For someone who's so quick to just dismiss sources like ThinkProgress, you're amazingly willing to read the most biased right wing sites on the web.
| 26 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:38:47am |
| 27 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:39:46am |
re: #22 Killgore Trout
Obama hasn't backtracked at all. Weirdos who for some reason decided the exact phraseology used to describe the attack is of vital national importance have thrown a shitstorm. Some idiots, while decrying the President's reaction, have beclowned themselves by asserting repeatedly that the video transparently had nothing to do with it, normally by simply pulling justifications out of their asses. It's been interesting.
But no, Obama hasn't backtracked. People trying to make something out of nothing have tracked all over the place.
| 28 |
austin_blue Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:39:47am |
re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh shit.
I'm so worried about what's happening today,
In the Middle East you know,
And I'm so worried about the baggage retrieval
system they got at Heathrow.
Heathrow is scarier,
| 29 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:39:50am |
re: #22 Killgore Trout
The Weekly Standard? You seem to have no trouble taking right wing rags at face value.
Why is that?
;)
| 30 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:40:17am |
re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist
You don't fuck with Big Bird. Americans will put up with a lot, but not an attack on Big Bird.
Listening to songs from Sondheim's "Assassins". For some reason, every time the ghost of John Wilkes Booth responds to Guiseppe Zangara's complaint about his stomach pains with "Have you considered shooting Franklin Roosevelt?" I start laughing hysterically. This is probably not healthy.
(Zangara responds, "You think that help?" Booth: "It couldn't hurt.")
"The Ballad of Booth" is probably the best song, but something about that line...
| 31 |
wrenchwench Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:40:46am |
re: #26 SanFranciscoZionist
Monty Python. It becomes relevant again periodically.
I had to look that up, too.
| 32 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:42:02am |
re: #31 wrenchwench
I had to look that up, too.
I'm so worried about modern technology.
I'm so worried about all the things that they dump in the sea.
I'm so worried about it. Worried about it. Worried. Worried. Worried.
| 33 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:42:08am |
re: #25 Charles Johnson
Couldn't care less what the Weekly Standard has to say about this. For someone who's so quick to just dismiss sources like ThinkProgress, you're amazingly willing to read the most biased right wing sites on the web.
You seem to misunderstand my commentary. I don't buy the cover up story, I thought I made that clear. I linked to the story and added my commentary because sites like Hot Air are linking to Weekly Standard claiming there's a press cover up.
| 34 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:42:30am |
re: #29 Varek Raith
No, he's cautiously disagreeing with the Weekly Standard, you see. By citing it and giving a weak rebuttal of it (while simultaneously claiming Obama is backtracking) he can be mock-offended when people castigate him for citing the Weekly Standard.
I think it's Killgore trollmove 7b, but I don't have my catalog at present.
| 35 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:42:32am |
re: #29 Varek Raith
The Weekly Standard? You seem to have no trouble taking right wing rags at face value.
Why is that?
;)
lol.
| 36 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:42:55am |
re: #22 Killgore Trout
Oh yeah, here's a guy I take seriously.
| 37 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:43:18am |
See? First you troll, then you lol at those who fall for the troll.
Why do such a thing, I have no fucking clue at all.
| 39 |
Gus Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:44:44am |
re: #25 Charles Johnson
Couldn't care less what the Weekly Standard has to say about this. For someone who's so quick to just dismiss sources like ThinkProgress, you're amazingly willing to read the most biased right wing sites on the web.
By Thomas Joseclyn, senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. As you can see from the first link he's been spinning Benghazi all month. Here's some of the write up of the organization at Right Web:
During the Obama Era
After the election of President Barack Obama, FDD became a prominent opponent of the administration, pressuring for more aggressive action against Iran and criticizing efforts to negotiate with “enemy” states. FDD figures like Reuel Marc Gerecht and Michael Ledeen have been among the more vociferous hawks calling for U.S. military intervention in Iran and elsewhere, arguing that religious militants must be “defeated.”[4] FDD president Clifford May has charged the Obama administration with being “feckless” in everything from its response to WikiLeaks to its defense of Israel.[5]In early December 2010, FDD hosted its annual forum on the theme of “Countering the Iranian threat.” The conference’s keynote speaker was then-newly elected Sen. Mark Kirk (R-IL), who argued that President Obama should reach out to exiled members of the Iranian opposition Green Movement, increase aid to Iranian democracy groups, and make Iranian political prisoners "household names throughout America" like President Ronald Reagan did with Soviet detainees in the 1980s.[6]
A fundraising dinner linked to the forum became a matter of controversy when it was revealed that FDD held the dinner at the residence of the Pakistani ambassador without notifying the Pakistan embassy of its link to the forum and the theme. Although FDD disputed the connection between the fundraising effort and the dinner, the dinner was listed as one of the conference events on the FDD website.[7] According to the Inter Press Service (IPS), “The [Pakistani] embassy was unaware even that the conference was occurring, let alone that it featured FDD scholars and fellows who advocate for ‘ratcheting up’ sanctions and pressure, U.S. support for regime change, and even Israeli or U.S. military strikes against Pakistan's ally Iran. ‘Pakistan and Iran are brotherly countries and neighboring countries, brotherly Muslim countries,’ Imran Gardezi, a spokesperson for the Pakistani embassy, told IPS. ‘Anything against Iran is unthinkable for us.’”[8] IPS reported that the Pakistan ambassador, Husain Haqqani, and May are old friends, and that Haqqani is a former fellow at another neocon organization, the Hudson Institute.[9]
...
As of November 2011, FDD’s “Leadership Council” included several high-profile neoconservative and Republican Party figures. These included Paula Dobriansky, an undersecretary of state during the George W. Bush administration; publisher Steve Forbes; former FBI director Louis Freeh; former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-GA); former ambassador Max Kampelman; the Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol; Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT); former National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane; and former CIA director James Woolsey.
FDD’s Board of Directors has had a similar makeup. As of late 2011, members included the Republican House Majority Leader Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA), religious right figure Gary Bauer, conservative Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer, Reagan-era Pentagon official Richard Perle, and the Wall Street Journal’s Bret Stephens.
| 40 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:44:58am |
re: #38 Killgore Trout
Disagree with wingnuts?
Outrage!
Congrats.
You just burned the last of your credibility with me with your constant nonsense.
| 41 |
efuseakay Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:53:00am |
re: #33 Killgore Trout
You seem to misunderstand my commentary. I don't buy the cover up story, I thought I made that clear. I linked to the story and added my commentary because sites like Hot Air are linking to Weekly Standard claiming there's a press cover up.
Your problem is: there is no coverup.
| 42 |
Gus Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:57:05am |
re: #41 efuseakay
Your problem is: there is no coverup.
ah yes fictional cover ups r very important; RT @stosh126: @ericboehlert People are making a big deal of the COVER UP— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) October 20, 2012
| 43 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:57:51am |
re: #41 efuseakay
Your problem is: there is no coverup.
That's what I said and that was my reason for linking to the article. The conspiracy theory of a press cover up doesn't make sense. I have no idea why that's a source of outrage, anger and insults for me to disagree with a wingnut conspiracy theory.
| 44 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:57:51am |
re: #39 Gus
FDD is basically a far right group that advocates for endless wars, mostly against Muslims. I'm sure the prevailing opinion among their "scholars" is that the US should have immediately launched shock and awe bombing against Libya.
| 45 |
Gus Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:57:56am |
I guess this means General Petraeus is part of the cover up.
//Wingnut
| 46 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 20, 2012 11:59:44am |
re: #42 Gus
It's typical news media/right wing partnership in idiocy.
Step 1: Make a big to-do about something that has no actual importance and signifies nothing, like the exact phraseology Obama used or whether the forensic account of what happened was immediately detailed in a 5 point plan for the American people.
Step 2: Talk about the 'evidence' as more of the story comes out, hotly debating how each piece impacts the fictionalized narrative you've created.
Step 3: Respond to stories and explanations of how this really isn't a big deal and you should calm down with allegations of backtracking, coverup, etc.
That step 3 will last you months, if you milk it right.
What's great about this is it works for big serious people on the news, but it also works for commentators on a blog who want to be concerned.
| 47 |
PhillyPretzel Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:08:29pm |
re: #45 Gus
Actually it is the mother of all fig leaves. //
| 48 |
wrenchwench Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:10:07pm |
re: #43 Killgore Trout
That's what I said and that was my reason for linking to the article. The conspiracy theory of a press cover up doesn't make sense. I have no idea why that's a source of outrage, anger and insults for me to disagree with a wingnut conspiracy theory.
The theory is not the only thing that didn't make sense. Your comment was hard to read. You are hard to read. If you made sense more often, I'd put more work into figuring out what you meant.
| 49 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:10:52pm |
re: #43 Killgore Trout
I'm not angry at all. Just pointing out that on more than one occasion you've bragged about not even reading the source for something I post, because it doesn't fit into your acceptable list of sources -- but you still express an opinion on it, often dismissing it as a lie without reading it.
Then you post things like that, to show how they're covering this story at Hot Air and the Weekly Standard, both of which are sources that are far more biased and dishonest than the ones you dismiss and refuse to read.
Again, not angry at all. Just seems like a glaring double standard.
| 50 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:15:23pm |
And by the way, I went and read the articles at those sites.
| 51 |
efuseakay Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:15:26pm |
re: #49 Charles Johnson
I'm not angry at all. Just pointing out that on more than one occasion you've bragged about not even reading the source for something I post, because it doesn't fit into your acceptable list of sources -- but you still express an opinion on it, often dismissing it as a lie without reading it.
Then you post things like that, to show how they're covering this story at Hot Air and the Weekly Standard, both of which are sources that are far more biased and dishonest than the ones you dismiss and refuse to read.
Again, not angry at all. Just seems like a glaring double standard.
U MAD BRO?
//
| 52 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:17:21pm |
Damn, the horn arrangements on Fagen's new record are just blowing me away. This is the real shit.
| 53 |
Someone Please Beam Me Up! Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:17:52pm |
re: #12 wrenchwench
I was creeped out when the Labor Department in California became the Department of Human Resources. I get the feeling Romney looks at regular folks as a 'resource' to be mined or harvested, or plucked.
It gets worse. They call us "human capital" here.
| 54 |
blueraven Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:18:47pm |
re: #43 Killgore Trout
That's what I said and that was my reason for linking to the article. The conspiracy theory of a press cover up doesn't make sense. I have no idea why that's a source of outrage, anger and insults for me to disagree with a wingnut conspiracy theory.
Come on guys. KTs post was a bit awkwardly worded but he was disagreeing with Weekly Standards accusation of a MSM coverup.
| 55 |
Ming Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:20:20pm |
From Andrew Sullivan, today, on Benghazi and Republican Congressman Darrell Issa, [Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...] I put some words in caps towards the end:
Issa didn't bother to redact the names of Libyan civilians and local leaders mentioned in the cables, and just as with the WikiLeaks dump of State Department cables last year, the administration says that Issa has done damage to U.S. efforts to work with those Libyans and exposed them to physical danger from the very groups that had an interest in attacking the U.S. consulate...
One of the cables released by Issa names a woman human rights activist who was leading a campaign against violence and was detained in Benghazi. She expressed fear for her safety to U.S. officials and criticized the Libyan government. "This woman is trying to raise an anti-violence campaign on her own and came to the United States for help. She isn't publicly associated with the U.S. in any other way but SHE'S NOW NAMED IN THIS CABLE. It's a danger to her life," the administration official said.
| 56 |
Varek Raith Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:20:46pm |
re: #54 blueraven
At this point I no longer care to parse his comments.
| 57 |
efuseakay Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:22:50pm |
re: #33 Killgore Trout
You seem to misunderstand my commentary. I don't buy the cover up story, I thought I made that clear. I linked to the story and added my commentary because sites like Hot Air are linking to Weekly Standard claiming there's a press cover up.
Given your history here, surely you can undertand how the above can be construed as you saying you don't believe what the President/CIA et al are saying about the attack.
Had to re-read what I quoted from you above after your reply.
| 58 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:24:11pm |
re: #54 blueraven
Come on guys. KTs post was a bit awkwardly worded but he was disagreeing with Weekly Standards accusation of a MSM coverup.
He was also using it to get in a sideways accusation of Obama 'backtracking', which nearly counts as irony except it's intentional, so it's more just sadly transparent.
It's also that there is no debate. There never was. Issa and the media went into a frenzy because that's what they do, but there never was any serious questions of any sort of wrongdoing, coverup, backtracking, or anything of the like.
Anyway, fuck it, it's just Killgore. You either enjoy the performance art or you think it's shit. It's not something you're supposed to be taking seriously.
| 59 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:24:38pm |
re: #49 Charles Johnson
I'm not angry at all. Just pointing out that on more than one occasion you've bragged about not even reading the source for something I post, because it doesn't fit into your acceptable list of sources -- but you still express an opinion on it, often dismissing it as a lie without reading it.
Then you post things like that, to show how they're covering this story at Hot Air and the Weekly Standard, both of which are sources that are far more biased and dishonest than the ones you dismiss and refuse to read.
Again, not angry at all. Just seems like a glaring double standard.
Many people aren't that binary. Just because I find sites like Think Progress unreliable doesn't mean I believe everything on fox news. If I'm looking for accurate information I'll usually pass over the sites I find unreliable. I will check partisan blogs like Dkos or Hot Air to see how they're spinning a story. Sometimes I'll look into it, sometimes I won't. I don't see it being hypocritical to post my thoughts debunking a Weekly Standard article that Hot Air is linking to as evidence of a conspiracy theory.
| 60 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:25:11pm |
The artwork on Fagen's CD is just as awesome as the music.
| 61 |
efuseakay Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:26:28pm |
re: #55 Ming
From Andrew Sullivan, today, on Benghazi and Republican Congressman Darrell Issa, [Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...] I put some words in caps towards the end:
Issa didn't bother to redact the names of Libyan civilians and local leaders mentioned in the cables, and just as with the WikiLeaks dump of State Department cables last year, the administration says that Issa has done damage to U.S. efforts to work with those Libyans and exposed them to physical danger from the very groups that had an interest in attacking the U.S. consulate...
One of the cables released by Issa names a woman human rights activist who was leading a campaign against violence and was detained in Benghazi. She expressed fear for her safety to U.S. officials and criticized the Libyan government. "This woman is trying to raise an anti-violence campaign on her own and came to the United States for help. She isn't publicly associated with the U.S. in any other way but SHE'S NOW NAMED IN THIS CABLE. It's a danger to her life," the administration official said.
The President better hammer this point hard on Monday. Relentlessly.
| 62 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:27:06pm |
re: #60 Charles Johnson
Speaking of which, I see that over at RealClimate Dr. Gavin wrote up a little piece to address yet another false claim about sea level rise stopping.
| 63 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:30:30pm |
Look what I stumbled on: Boy Scouts of America’s ‘Perversion Files’ Released
My parents didn't want me to join it back when I could have. They thought it was overly religious and clique-y.
I'll have to thank them for not letting me join. If I ever have a family, I'll have them join the Girl Scouts or Campfire scouts.
| 64 |
Sionainn Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:30:46pm |
I just got back from early voting. There was actually a line...took about half an hour.
| 65 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:33:06pm |
re: #62 freetoken
Speaking of which, I see that over at RealClimate Dr. Gavin wrote up a little piece to address yet another false claim about sea level rise stopping.
Thanks, I just read it. It's kind of sad -- blatant falsehoods that take so little effort for these deniers to spout take so much effort and time to debunk. And then the deniers will just keep repeating the lies anyway.
| 66 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:38:39pm |
re: #65 Charles Johnson
I expect it to never end.
Sort of like denial of evolution.
And the two are now inexplicably linked in the mind of the anti-science crowd, as Librul Conspiracies.
That's why I commented on the latest double-dip of derp over at NRO:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
In order to show that the anti-modern crowd simply going to accept climate change as something human induced.
| 67 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:42:17pm |
And speaking of evolution, a neat little bit of evolutionary science:
Evolution of new genes captured
Like job-seekers searching for a new position, living things sometimes have to pick up a new skill if they are going to succeed. Researchers from the University of California, Davis, and Uppsala University, Sweden, have shown for the first time how living organisms do this.
The observation, published Oct. 19 in the journal Science, closes an important gap in the theory of natural selection.
Scientists have long wondered how living things evolve new functions from a limited set of genes. One popular explanation is that genes duplicate by accident; the duplicate undergoes mutations and picks up a new function; and, if that new function is useful, the gene spreads.
"It's an old idea and it's clear that this happens," said John Roth, a distinguished professor of microbiology at UC Davis and co-author of the paper.
The problem, Roth said, is that it has been hard to imagine how it occurs. Natural selection is relentlessly efficient in removing mutated genes: Genes that are not positively selected are quickly lost.
How then does a newly duplicated gene stick around long enough to pick up a useful new function that would be a target for positive selection?
Experiments in Roth's laboratory and elsewhere led to a model for the origin of a novel gene by a process of "innovation, amplification and divergence." This model has now been tested by Joakim Nasvall, Lei Sun and Dan Andersson at Uppsala.
In the new model, the original gene first gains a second, weak function alongside its main activity — just as an auto mechanic, for example, might develop a side interest in computers. If conditions change such that the side activity becomes important, then selection of this side activity favors increasing the expression of the old gene. In the case of the mechanic, a slump in the auto industry or boom in the IT sector might lead her to hone her computer skills and look for an IT position.
The most common way to increase gene expression is by duplicating the gene, perhaps multiple times. Natural selection then works on all copies of the gene. Under selection, the copies accumulate mutations and recombine. Some copies develop an enhanced side function. Other copies retain their original function.
Ultimately, the cell winds up with two distinct genes, one providing each activity — and a new genetic function is born.
Nasvall, Liu and Andersson tested this model using the bacterium Salmonella. The bacteria carried a gene involved in making the amino acid histidine that had a secondary, weak ability to contribute to the synthesis of another amino acid, tryptophan. In their study, they removed the main tryptophan-synthesis gene from the bacteria and watched what happened.
After growing the bacteria for 3,000 generations on a culture medium without tryptophan, they forced the bacteria to evolve a new mechanism for producing the amino acid. What emerged was a tryptophan-synthesizing activity provided by a duplicated copy of the original gene.
"The important improvement offered by our model is that the whole process occurs under constant selection — there's no time off from selection during which the extra copy could be lost," Roth said. [...]
So much for the creationists' claim that mutations can't add functionality.
| 69 |
Romantic Heretic Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:44:55pm |
re: #12 wrenchwench
When Romney said, "We can pluck somebody out of the State Department", I thought, "Just like you pluck women out of your binders."
I was creeped out when the Labor Department in California became the Department of Human Resources. I get the feeling Romney looks at regular folks as a 'resource' to be mined or harvested, or plucked.
I have loathed the term 'human resources' for ages for just those reasons.
Understandable though. Human beings are unpredictable. Human resources are good machines that do what they're told.
| 70 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:45:42pm |
re: #69 Romantic Heretic
I have loathed the term 'human resources' for ages for just those reasons.
Understandable though. Human beings are unpredictable. Human resources are good machines that do what they're told.
Utah Phillips on natural resources:
| 71 |
MittDoesNotCompute Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:46:45pm |
re: #40 Varek Raith
Congrats.
You just burned the last of your credibility with me with your constant nonsense.
KT doesn't give two shits anymore if anyone has an issue with his "credibility", because he traded that in long ago when he left the land of logic and reason for a spot underneath the LGF Bridge.
Nowadays, KT is apparently satisfied to be the resident Lizard contrarian, in it only for the lulz.
He's not even worth downdinging anymore; unless he's OT on some personal stuff (like the frogs), I just scroll past.
| 72 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:49:17pm |
re: #63 ProGunLiberal
Look what I stumbled on: Boy Scouts of America’s ‘Perversion Files’ Released
My parents didn't want me to join it back when I could have. They thought it was overly religious and clique-y.
I'll have to thank them for not letting me join. If I ever have a family, I'll have them join the Girl Scouts or Campfire scouts.
My husband's an Eagle Scout, and the way things are now, if we had a son, I don't know if he'd encourage him to join or not. He's pretty mad about the gay kid they wouldn't let become an Eagle.
I hated Girl Scouts, and left after a couple of years, but they don't seem to have this constant problem with kicking out LGBTQ and atheist kids, and covering up for perverts.
| 73 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:49:24pm |
Here's a link to the actual Science paper:
Real-Time Evolution of New Genes by Innovation, Amplification, and Divergence
A separate news article in the same journal dared to throw in the word "complex":
Gene Duplication's Role in Evolution Gets Richer, More Complex
In 1970, geneticist Susumu Ohno proposed that new genes arise when a hiccup during cell division produces an extra copy of an existing gene, and that spare copy is free to mutate and take on new functions. An experimental evolution study in bacteria, presented on page 384 of this week's issue of Science, shows that at least some genes take another route to giving an organism new functions. And other recent work has established that partial copies of genes—rather than complete duplications of genes or genomes, the focus of Ohno's work—regularly become useful. All told, a growing body of research demonstrates that Ohno's ideas were a little too simple.
The IDiots will be in denial.
| 75 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:52:34pm |
re: #69 Romantic Heretic
I have loathed the term 'human resources' for ages for just those reasons.
Understandable though. Human beings are unpredictable. Human resources are good machines that do what they're told.
We once had a meeting at the old high school I worked at, a workshop for working on our ESLRs, where the speaker kept referring to the kids as 'future workforce'. I was pissed, and complained. We were a Catholic school, for God's sake. Our kids were future lovers, spouses, parents, citizens, friends, people...not bloody 'workforce'.
| 76 |
allegro Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:52:34pm |
re: #73 freetoken
Here's a link to the actual Science paper:
Real-Time Evolution of New Genes by Innovation, Amplification, and Divergence
A separate news article in the same journal dared to throw in the word "complex":
Gene Duplication's Role in Evolution Gets Richer, More Complex
The IDiots will be in denial.
Will be? That train zoomed outa the station some time ago. ;)
| 77 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:56:08pm |
re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist
From my point of view, the only thing the Girl Scout trash is your health, through their cookies.
I love the Lemon-Filled ones, for example. I've heard good things with both the Girl Scouts and Campfire.
| 78 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Oct 20, 2012 12:58:22pm |
4-H is a much better organization for kids, IME & all that, than any of the Scouts. I need to find the nearest group to us for my son.
| 79 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:00:28pm |
re: #78 William Barnett-Lewis
While I would agree, Katrina tilted me a little bit, and I would like any children to have some survival/scouting skills.
| 80 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:03:37pm |
re: #66 freetoken
I expect it to never end.
Sort of like denial of evolution.
And the two are now inexplicably linked in the mind of the anti-science crowd, as Librul Conspiracies.
That's why I commented on the latest double-dip of derp over at NRO:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
In order to show that the anti-modern crowd simply going to accept climate change as something human induced.
Gah. What a dishonest article. I love how he brags about the Discovery Institute predicting that "junk DNA" wouldn't turn out to be "junk." Right -- they predicted it would turn out to be the hidden hand of God. Now that natural reasons are being discovered, suddenly they pivot and claim it shows how smart they are.
Of course, there's a huge conspiracy by the "liberal Science Establishment" to trick everyone. There always is.
Absolute crap. This is the bilge the National Review serves to their readers as an article about science.
| 81 |
Gus Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:03:45pm |
Trending: #ThingsObamaPlansToBan
I'm sure it's chock full of Grade-A derp.
Any volunteers wanna go over and look?
| 82 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:05:01pm |
The best description of Girl Scout Cookies I have seen, on Gawker:
Oh, and Girl Scout cookies are little disks of heroin that I can eat as many of as I want by comforting myself with the thought that I empowering young girls with every calorie.
| 83 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:05:47pm |
Did Cub and Girl scouts as a leader or support worker in several states and a couple countries. There is no way I would get that involved with someone else's kids in the current climate. (That it was almost impossible to recruit parent helpers, and I had to hide agnosticism, are other factors.) I'd like to see development of a family-based camping and outdoors organization with no ideological BS. Well, maybe the Young Pioneers.
| 84 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:06:51pm |
Since I'm trending science on this Saturday, here's another neat little bit of archaeologic news:
Evidence of Viking Outpost Found in Canada
For the past 50 years—since the discovery of a thousand-year-old Viking way station in Newfoundland—archaeologists and amateur historians have combed North America's east coast searching for traces of Viking visitors.
It has been a long, fruitless quest, littered with bizarre claims and embarrassing failures. But at a conference in Canada earlier this month, archaeologist Patricia Sutherland announced new evidence that points strongly to the discovery of the second Viking outpost ever discovered in the Americas.
While digging in the ruins of a centuries-old building on Baffin Island (map), far above the Arctic Circle, a team led by Sutherland, adjunct professor of archaeology at Memorial University in Newfoundland and a research fellow at the University of Aberdeen in Scotland, found some very intriguing whetstones. Wear grooves in the blade-sharpening tools bear traces of copper alloys such as bronze—materials known to have been made by Viking metalsmiths but unknown among the Arctic's native inhabitants.
[...]
| 85 |
Gus Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:07:54pm |
re: #84 freetoken
Since I'm trending science on this Saturday, here's another neat little bit of archaeologic news:
...
But Columbus discovered America and Canada is not America!
| 86 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:10:06pm |
re: #64 Sionainn
I just got back from early voting. There was actually a line...took about half an hour.
What state?
| 87 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:10:32pm |
re: #84 freetoken
I had heard that the Vikings had a name for that area.
And, man, they were hardasses. Baffin Island?!
Edit: Amazingly, right now 12,454 People live on Baffin Island or the small islands around it. O_O
| 88 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:13:08pm |
Hubby is the Cub Scout Master for the troop my boys are in.
A friend of ours, who is gay, has a son that he would really like to have in the scouts. My hubby wants him in there too, but they feel it's hypocritical.
I say, join the boy up and make dad a den leader.
Fight the power!
I don't see it happening though, and it's a shameful reflection on the scouts.
| 89 |
darthstar Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:14:07pm |
| 90 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:14:52pm |
re: #87 ProGunLiberal
And, man, they were hardasses. Baffin Island?!
Nobody messed with Erik the Red.
| 91 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:15:58pm |
re: #84 freetoken
Since I'm trending science on this Saturday, here's another neat little bit of archaeologic news:
Is cool.
The Norse got around. An amazing culture.
| 92 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:15:58pm |
Recommended reading, on observing America and the elections, from an Australian newspaper:
| 93 |
Reverend Mother Ramallo Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:20:53pm |
re: #83 Decatur Deb
Did Cub and Girl scouts as a leader or support worker in several states and a couple countries. There is no way I would get that involved with someone else's kids in the current climate. (That it was almost impossible to recruit parent helpers, and I had to hide agnosticism are other factors.) I'd like to see development of a family-based camping and outdoors organization with no ideological BS. Well, maybe the Young Pioneers.
We keep God out of our troop.
Really, ours is more about getting under served boys getting involved in organized, outdoor activities (that don't involve basketball -- not that there's anything wrong with that).
| 94 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:22:53pm |
re: #87 ProGunLiberal
I had heard that the Vikings had a name for that area.
And, man, they were hardasses. Baffin Island?!
Edit: Amazingly, right now 12,454 People live on Baffin Island or the small islands around it. O_O
There was a Norse settlement for four or five hundred years on bloody Greenland, although they were finally starved out.
(The "Guns, Germs and Steel" author claims they wouldn't eat fish, and that's one reason why the settlement died out, IIRC, which baffles me, since the Norse did eat fish, and in fact lived pretty extensively on it everywhere else. Why they would get to Greenland and suddenly not eat fish makes no sense at all. This has been a totally pointless meander because I'm avoiding work.)
| 95 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:25:34pm |
re: #90 freetoken
Nobody messed with Erik the Red.
Except for Mrs. Erik, Thjodhildr (sometimes spelled Thorhild). Mother of Leif.
She was a Christian, and the legend has it that when they got to Greenland, she asked him to build her a chapel. He said he'd get around to it, but didn't. She said she wouldn't sleep with him until she got a chapel, and it went up damn quick.
Norse ladies were serious business.
| 96 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:25:55pm |
The Deseret News ( a wholly owned business of the Mormon Church) does its best to teach the controversy:
ENCODE's 'junk DNA' findings renew debate about creation, evolution
New research findings on DNA have not only heightened interest in and enthusiasm for human genome research, but also fanned the flames of the debate between proponents of creationism or intelligent design and believers in Darwinism or evolution.
Both sides are digging into their positions, but concede that the new debate hinges in part on the interpretation of the word "function."
[...]
The author then proceeds to falsely explain the last several years of "controversy".
| 97 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:27:28pm |
| 98 |
AK-47% Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:30:19pm |
re: #73 freetoken
Here's a link to the actual Science paper:
Real-Time Evolution of New Genes by Innovation, Amplification, and Divergence
A separate news article in the same journal dared to throw in the word "complex":
Gene Duplication's Role in Evolution Gets Richer, More Complex
The IDiots will be in denial.
Lies from the Pit of Hell!
| 99 |
The Ghost of a Flea Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:31:26pm |
re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist
There was a Norse settlement for four or five hundred years on bloody Greenland, although they were finally starved out.
(The "Guns, Germs and Steel" author claims they wouldn't eat fish, and that's one reason why the settlement died out, IIRC, which baffles me, since the Norse did eat fish, and in fact lived pretty extensively on it everywhere else. Why they would get to Greenland and suddenly not eat fish makes no sense at all. This has been a totally pointless meander because I'm avoiding work.)
From Wikipedia:
Jared Diamond suggests that cultural practices, such as rejecting fish as a source of food and relying solely on livestock ill-adapted to Greenland's (deteriorating) climate, resulted in recurring famine which led to abandonment of the colony.[17] However, isotope analysis of the bones of inhabitants shows that marine food sources supplied more and more of the diet of the Norse Greenlanders, making up between 50% and 80% of their diet by the 14th century.
Drawn from Arneborg, J.; Heinmeier, J.; Lynnerup, N.; Nielsen, H. L.; Rud, N.; Sveinbjörnsdóttir, Á. E. (2002). C-14 dating and the disappearance of Norsemen from Greenland. Europhysics news.
| 100 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:31:33pm |
re: #97 freetoken
Very cool, did not know that. A very egalitarian society, gender-wise, in a lot of ways, so not terribly surprised by it.
| 101 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:31:33pm |
re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist
Norse everyone was serious business.
But I have to go. The headache I had last night from Lebanon? It's not gone.
| 102 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:32:18pm |
re: #99 The Ghost of a Flea
From Wikipedia:
Drawn from Arneborg, J.; Heinmeier, J.; Lynnerup, N.; Nielsen, H. L.; Rud, N.; Sveinbjörnsdóttir, Á. E. (2002). C-14 dating and the disappearance of Norsemen from Greenland. Europhysics news.
Ha! Now that makes more sense!
| 103 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:35:22pm |
re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist
While the link I put up was more fluff than substance, there are lots of articles out there about the abundance of female Viking graves and that they were buried with swords, the latter having in the past misled some to believe men were in those graves.
| 104 |
The Ghost of a Flea Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:37:47pm |
re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist
Ha! Now that makes more sense!
Jared Diamond is interesting, but his explanations often have that kind of Marvin Harris "it sounds great, but it's smoother that reality" feel.
Then again, a pared-back version of his collapse theorem regarding the Greenland Norse might be that they didn't adapt the highly niche-sensitive hunting and preserving practices of natives, such as eating raw seal, fermented bird meat (kiviak), et cetera, that were important for maintaining nutrition in polar regions. But that's just me spinning my wheels.
Addendum: and even that isn't very satisfying, since Icelanders eat stuff like hakarl and surströmming.
| 105 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:39:22pm |
Somebody yesterday mentioned Lebanon:
Lebanese on edge after car bomb linked to Syria
Lebanese protesters erected flaming roadblocks and gunmen roamed the streets Saturday in a city on edge after the assassination of a top security official in a powerful car bomb the prime minister linked to the civil war in neighboring Syria.
The crisis raised a terrifying specter for Lebanese who fear their country could easily plunge back into cycles of violence and reprisal that have haunted it for decades.
Friday's blast in the heart of Beirut's Christian area killed eight people, including the country's intelligence chief, Brig. Gen. Wissam al-Hassan. It was the deadliest bombing in Beirut in four years, shattering the country's uneasy calm.
[...]
| 106 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:43:30pm |
re: #103 freetoken
While the link I put up was more fluff than substance, there are lots of articles out there about the abundance of female Viking graves and that they were buried with swords, the latter having in the past misled some to believe men were in those graves.
What some of the comments over there point out is that the weapons are probably primarily a high-status item--but it's very Norse that women would be buried with high-status items. IIRC, Norse graves of women who died old tend to be quite elaborate, because they had grown and established sons who would go overboard with grave goods for Mum. Those of women who died younger are much less richly stocked.
| 107 |
Shiplord Kirel Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:44:43pm |
If Romney wins expect to see the Paulian anti-semites coming out of the woodwork just like the anti-black bigots have done the past few years. They are in charge of the GOP in places like Lubbock, where the chairman of the GOP platform committee once called for an investigation of Mossad complicity in the 1993 WTC bombing. The self-same liar has a habit of pulling "facts" out of his ass to "correct" an opponent, all without ever having cited a source.
It can't happen here? It is happening here, one Birch freak at a time.
| 108 |
AK-47% Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:47:37pm |
re: #107 Shiplord Kirel
Expect to see Mitt smiling and "distancing" himself from this stuff but then quietly dropping refernces to it in later speeches.
Expect to see Ryan setting domestic policy back 50 years and Bolton returning foreign policy back to the Cold War
And Mitt smiling and distancing himself from it but letting it happen.
Vote wisely, people. We can't afford to lose 50 years.
| 109 |
bratwurst Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:48:17pm |
re: #107 Shiplord Kirel
If Romney wins expect to see the Paulian anti-semites coming out of the woodwork just like the anti-black bigots have done the past few years. They are in charge of the GOP in places like Lubbock, where the chairman of the GOP platform committee once called for an investigation of Mossad complicity in the 1993 WTC bombing. The self-same liar has a habit of pulling "facts" out of his ass to "correct" an opponent, all without ever having cited a source.
It can't happen here? It is happening here, one Birch freak at a time.
Agreed...you would have to be delusional to expect the trend of Philo-Semitism on the right to continue indefinitely.
| 110 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:48:32pm |
re: #107 Shiplord Kirel
If Romney wins expect to see the Paulian anti-semites coming out of the woodwork just like the anti-black bigots have done the past few years. ...
Speaking of which, WaPo put up a two page spread on the Golden Dawn:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
| 111 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:50:47pm |
re: #104 The Ghost of a Flea
Jared Diamond is interesting, but his explanations often have that kind of Marvin Harris "it sounds great, but it's smoother that reality" feel.
Then again, a pared-back version of his collapse theorem regarding the Greenland Norse might be that they didn't adapt the highly niche-sensitive hunting and preserving practices of natives, such as eating raw seal, fermented bird meat (kiviak), et cetera, that were important for maintaining nutrition in polar regions. But that's just me spinning my wheels.
And that makes sense. Greenland is a hell of a climate. The various Inuit groups that came through there were the most successful in the long term keeping going, but several of them also died out. It is not a forgiving setting at all. Small mistakes will kill you dead. And the Norse contact with the natives appears to have been somewhat sparse, and often hostile, so I'm not sure how easy it would have been for them to figure out what the skraelingr were doing to survive. Greenland is also not densely populated. Never has been.
OTOH, they managed for several hundred years, which is not bad at all.
| 112 |
b_sharp Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:53:25pm |
re: #84 freetoken
Since I'm trending science on this Saturday, here's another neat little bit of archaeologic news:
Keep going with the science posts/comments, they're almost as important as the political posts right now, and will be more important after the election.
| 113 |
b_sharp Sat, Oct 20, 2012 1:55:23pm |
re: #87 ProGunLiberal
I had heard that the Vikings had a name for that area.
And, man, they were hardasses. Baffin Island?!
Edit: Amazingly, right now 12,454 People live on Baffin Island or the small islands around it. O_O
People up there stick their bare hands into the sub-zero water to grab fish and seemingly don't feel the cold.
| 114 |
The Ghost of a Flea Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:00:06pm |
re: #109 bratwurst
Agreed...you would have to be delusional to expect the trend of Philo-Semitism on the right to continue indefinitely.
It's a provisional kind of philo-semitism, though, with a lot of footnoted details. The fact that a lot of the "support Israel 110%" comes from pressure from Christian groups that adhere to Christian Zionist ideas.
Christian Zionism likes Israel, the biblical kingdom, and supports modern Israel becoming the former...matching the old borders, by reversing the diaspora, and rebuilding the temple. That doesn't correspond to a liking of Jews in general--more than a few prominent mega-pastors are also on record repeating anti-semitic stereotypes, both ancient ones and ideas imported from Bircher sources (in turn eching the Protocols). And the endgame of Christian Zionism is, pretty much, that Jesus comes back and kills the unrepentant Jews. This isn't secret or concealed knowledge--people like Hagee and LaHaye write about this often (up to and concluding the latter's Left Behind series, which concluding with an act of gore porn in which Jesus explodes the Antichrist's army and tips the remaining Jews into the pit of fire).
| 115 |
AK-47% Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:00:40pm |
re: #113 Gangnam Style
People up there stick their bare hands into the sub-zero water to grab fish and seemingly don't feel the cold.
water is still warmer than the surrounding air...
| 116 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:03:29pm |
re: #112 Gangnam Style
Ok, you're going to love this one then (and it's an LGF exclusive):
It appears that the New Statesman has been punked, or is punking others:
Computer-generated nonsense accepted for publication by a mathematics journal
In 1998, physicist Alan Sokal decided to prove that the impenetrable language used by various post-modernists rendered their work incomprehensible, not only to the public at large, but even to other post-modernists.
Sokal submitted an article, intended as a joke, to an American academic journal called Social Text. [continues with more background on the well known Sokal prank.]
[...]
If there ever was such a thing, however, fifteen years later it appears that the humanities may be equalising the score. The LRB blog reports:
Last month That’s Mathematics! reported another landmark event in the history of academic publishing. A paper by Marcie Rathke of the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople had been provisionally accepted for publication in Advances in Pure Mathematics.
[...]
The NewStatesman author appears to be serious.
Hehehehehe.... the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople.
Bwahahahahaha....
| 117 |
b_sharp Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:03:44pm |
re: #115 AK-47%
water is still warmer than the surrounding air...
A distinction without meaning to my hands when the air temp is below freezing.
And I have less trouble with cold hands than many others.
| 118 |
AK-47% Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:05:17pm |
re: #117 Gangnam Style
A distinction without meaning to my hands when the air temp is below freezing.
And I have less trouble with cold hands than many others.
It's when you take them out of the water that you notice...
| 119 |
engineer cat Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:06:48pm |
Christian Zionism
it seems to me from meeting evangelicals on the street when they are handing out pamphlets and telling them that i am jewish that somehow they have managed never to have met an actual modern jewish person
"why, you must be celebrating the feast of tabernacles about now!"
i felt like an historical anachronism or anthropological exhibit
| 120 |
freetoken Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:09:24pm |
The "University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople" - geez, there's a sucker born every minute.
Which explains the current GOP and Mitt Romney.
| 121 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:14:08pm |
re: #118 AK-47%
It's when you take them out of the water that you notice...
Water has 25 times the thermal conductivity vs. air. If people don't feel it it's because their nerves have gone numb, not because the air is colder.
| 123 |
Obdicut Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:38:33pm |
re: #121 goddamnedfrank
Water has 25 times the thermal conductivity vs. air. If people don't feel it it's because their nerves have gone numb, not because the air is colder.
Which is why you get hypothermia extremely quickly in water, but very slowly in colder air.
It's science!
Also, don't sit on rocks if you're cold.
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