NJ Gov. Christie Praises Obama’s Response to Hurricane Sandy: “Outstanding”

But he’ll pay for this
Politics • Views: 32,254

Kudos to New Jersey Governor Chris Christie for putting partisan politics aside, but you know the right wing base is not going to like these comments one bit: Gov. Christie Praises Obama’s Response to Hurricane Sandy as ‘Outstanding’.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) praised President Obama’s work to help states battered by Hurricane Sandy as “outstanding” Tuesday, but cautioned that the recovery would be a prolonged effort.

Christie, a prominent surrogate for GOP candidate Mitt Romney, said Obama had moved quickly to help designate his state a disaster area to better expedite federal assistance.

“The federal government’s response has been great. I was on the phone at midnight again last night with the president, personally, he has expedited the designation of New Jersey as a major disaster area,” said Christie, in an interview with NBC’s “Today.”

“Last night, I was on the phone with FEMA at 2 a.m. this morning to answer the questions they needed answered to get that designation and the president has been outstanding in this. The folks at FEMA, [Administrator] Craig Fugate and his folks have been excellent,” he continued.

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218 comments
1 Interesting Times  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:33:37am

Some republicans disagree:

[further comments redacted out of respect for LGF site rules]

2 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:34:23am

re: #1 Interesting Times

Some republicans disagree:

[Embedded content]

[further comments redacted out of respect for LGF site rules]

Repeated from downstairs but poster boy for natural disaster response mismanagement says what.

3 Ming  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:34:24am

I doubt that Governor Christie's praise of President Obama, and FEMA, will get much coverage on Fox "News". I wonder if they'll mention it at all.

4 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:34:31am

re: #1 Interesting Times

Some republicans disagree:

[Embedded content]

[further comments redacted out of respect for LGF site rules]

No way. Seriously? Hahahaha. What a freaking joke.

5 erik_t  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:34:57am

re: #1 Interesting Times

Some republicans disagree:

No higher praise...

6 The Mountain That Blogs  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:35:17am

re: #1 Interesting Times

Heck of a job, Brownie.

7 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:36:10am

re: #1 Interesting Times

Some republicans disagree:

[Embedded content]

[further comments redacted out of respect for LGF site rules]

But Benghazi! Seriously. These people have lost their marbles.

8 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:37:31am

Engle: 'Prophetic Experiences Seemed to Indicate that Romney was a Sort of Window of Mercy to America '

In a new opinion piece, Lou Engle explains that that he has always had a strict principle that he will not vote "for anyone who by legal decree supports the shedding of innocent blood, believing such a vote would make me an accomplice to the act" and always "to reject the compromise of simply voting for the lesser of two evils, believing that my allegiance is given to a higher King and a higher kingdom, therefore my no-vote actually becomes a prophetic act, a vote of conscience, not abdication."

Engle's position also included "no exceptions for rape and incest, understanding that life begins at conception" ... but like so many other Religious Right activists, Engle too has found a way to justify voting for Mitt Romney; in his case because a close friend had a dream that showed "Romney was clearly favorable from a divine perspective" and other "prophetic experiences [that] seemed to indicate that Romney was a sort of window of mercy to America":

9 erik_t  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:37:35am

re: #6 The Mountain That Blogs

Heck of a job, Brownie.

Heck of an endorsement, Brownie.

10 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:37:48am

I really do find myself wondering how it is that any of the wingnuts seriously voiced aloud a desire to see this man run for the Republican nomination. While he's a blowhard asshole who tickles their desire for a candidate who's "confrontational," so much of what he's said and believes is anathema to their stated philosophy.

11 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:38:37am

Update: the "Show More Pages" button is now working properly again.

12 erik_t  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:39:50am

re: #10 Targetpractice

I really do find myself wondering how it is that any of the wingnuts seriously voiced aloud a desire to see this man run for the Republican nomination. While he's a blowhard asshole who tickles their desire for a candidate who's "confrontational," so much of what he's said and believes is anathema to their stated philosophy.

They think he could make their team win. I think we've seen more than enough here to realize that a substantial portion of their philosophy is accepted or rejected out of convenience.

13 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:41:20am

And we seem to have a serious morning wingnut wave going on in LGF Pages.

14 Big Joe  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:41:54am

re: #3 Ming

I doubt that Governor Christie's praise of President Obama, and FEMA, will get much coverage on Fox "News". I wonder if they'll mention it at all.

Fox and Friends asked if Romney was going to get a chance for a friendly photo-op.

15 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:42:09am

re: #13 Charles Johnson

And we seem to have a serious morning wingnut wave going on in LGF Pages.

The latest updates on Hurricane Benghazi, I assume?
/

16 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:42:33am

re: #12 erik_t

They think he could make their team win. I think we've seen more than enough here to realize that a substantial portion of their philosophy is accepted or rejected out of convenience.

Agreed, their "small government, deficit hawk" business is no more reality than it was in the Clinton years. They care not for the country's financial situation or the trampling of rights. They simply want power, and will attain it by whatever means necessary. If that means supporting men who are everything they claim to despise, well, it's a price they pay gladly.

17 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:43:26am
18 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:44:10am

re: #13 Charles Johnson

And we seem to have a serious morning wingnut wave going on in LGF Pages.

Benghazi truthers.

19 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:44:54am
20 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:45:04am

Oh, and I must comment on the delicious irony of the last three storms to grace VA Beach. During Isabel, we lost power and spent almost two days without TV or internet. During Irene, we kept both, but my computer got fried. And now, during Sandy, we kept power, but our internet got fried.

It's almost as though some higher power wants to see me go through internet withdrawal once a year.

21 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:45:54am

I've got some applications to fill out. BBL

23 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:46:21am

Christie doesn’t ‘give a damn’ about Romney photo op

Fox News co-host Steve Doocy wondered when Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney was going to get some of the same benefits from the hurricane with a photo op in disaster-stricken New Jersey towns.

“Over the last couple of months, you have appeared throughout the country, Governor, on behalf of Mitt Romney,” Doocy remarked to Christie. “[W]e hear that perhaps Mr. Romney may do some storm-related events. Is there any possibility that Gov. Romney may go to New Jersey to tour some of the damage with you?”

“I have no idea, nor am I the least bit concerned or interested,” Christie replied, immediately shutting down the idea. “I’ve got a job to do here in New Jersey that’s much bigger than presidential politics and I could [sic] care less about any of that stuff.”

“I have a job to do,” he added. “I’ve got 2.4 million people out of power, I’ve got devastation on the shore, I’ve got floods in the northern part of my state. If you think right now I give a damn about presidential politics then you don’t know me.”

24 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:47:35am
25 erik_t  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:47:36am

I'm not sure what's more sad.

On the one hand, we've gotten to the point where a Republican praising a Democrat for doing a good job is worthy of anything more than a shrug and saying 'well, yes, he is.'

On the other hand, I'm not sure the offered kudos are quite enough. Christie may well have done actual damage to his long-term personal and political ambitions for daring to march to the beat of the factual drummer, rather than toeing the crazy party line.

On the gripping hand, I'm glad I can be worried about this rather than about a Katrina-level FEMA fuckup.

26 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:47:45am

re: #23 Kragar

Christie doesn’t ‘give a damn’ about Romney photo op

I'm not a Christie fan by any stretch but I'll give him props there. I also think this is why he'll inevitably be seen how Mitt is as not being a real conservative by the loons in the GOP base.

27 allegro  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:47:48am

re: #14 Big Joe

Fox and Friends asked if Romney was going to get a chance for a friendly photo-op.

"[W]e hear that perhaps Mr. Romney may do some storm-related events. Is there any possibility that Gov. Romney may go to New Jersey to tour some of the damage with you?"

"I have no idea, nor am I the least bit concerned or interested," Christie replied, immediately shutting down the idea. "I've got a job to do here in New Jersey that's much bigger than presidential politics and I could [sic] care less about any of that stuff."

"I have a job to do," he added. "I've got 2.4 million people out of power, I've got devastation on the shore, I've got floods in the northern part of my state. If you think right now I give a damn about presidential politics then you don't know me."

Boom!

28 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:49:41am
29 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:50:33am
30 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:51:17am

Oh screw this stupid Sandy "storm" Tell me more about this Benghazi scandal!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111!!!!!!

31 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:51:26am

"Fake Sandy news"? What have I missed since Sunday?

32 darthstar  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:52:02am

If Christie wasn't such an obstinate partisan prick most of the time, he'd be a great politician.

33 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:52:25am

Good afternoon Lizards!

Center City Philadelphia got less than the predicted rain I think. Also still not seeing much ground damage. Will go take a walk and then report back.

Barometer in the apartment was 1025mb before the storm. Dropped into the 960s yesterday evening. Back up to 1000mb by noon today.

34 Interesting Times  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:52:40am
35 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:53:30am

Sandy rearranged portions of the New Jersey coastline. That includes Long Beach where significant portions are now part of the Atlantic Ocean. Other areas, including the amusement piers up and down the coast were badly damaged.

State and USCG helicopters are up and running SAR up and down the coast looking for those trapped or otherwise in need of assistance as well as doing recon for damage estimates.

36 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:53:50am

re: #31 Targetpractice

"Fake Sandy news"? What have I missed since Sunday?

Sandy is the work of Iran & Syria!

A pro-Syrian government Facebook page, News Network of the Syrian Armed Forces, is reporting that the hurricane that touched down on the East Coast of the United States is not a natural catastrophe. Rather, it's the work of Syrian and Iranian scientists.

"Sources have confirmed that Hurricane Sandy, now buffeting America, was instigated by highly advanced technology in the possession of the Resisting Iranian regime and in coordination with our [Syrian] Resisting regime. These same sources have confirmed that there are experts in Syria who have contributed to this effort. This is punishment for those who attack Assad's Syria." (Translation by Michael Nahum.)

It would seem that the Resistance has entered the final stages of dementia.

Heh.

37 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:55:57am

This asshole @ComfortablySmug was tweeting a bunch of fake "updates" about flooding intended to spread panic and confusion.

38 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:56:09am

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

Sandy is the work of Iran & Syria!

Heh.

Well, I see that stupidity shares no national borders. Considering we got people in this country saying the hurricane happened because of gay marriages.

39 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:56:55am

And Sandy's not completely done yet.

It's still going to give people from WVA, TN, KY up into Ontario Canada fits with everything from blizzard conditions to strong and damaging winds and rain for the next few days.

People in NYC metro still have to worry about gusty winds that could topple already stressed trees and power lines through tomorrow and scattered showers remain in the forecast.

40 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:56:58am
41 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:57:33am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Well, I see that stupidity shares no national borders. Considering we got people in this country saying the hurricane happened because of gay marriages.

Syria's Tactical Buttfucking Unit has struck on American soil.

42 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:58:30am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Well, I see that stupidity shares no national borders. Considering we got people in this country saying the hurricane happened because of gay marriages.

Don't forget the Freeper HAARP contingent. Morons.

43 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:58:31am

re: #41 The Ghost of a Flea

Syria's Tactical Buttfucking Unit has struck on American soil.

Heh. Seriously though, these disasters really can show you who's nuts. From these Syrian ones to the ones domestically that think Obama did it or blame it on tolerance of homosexuality.

44 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:59:12am

re: #42 makeitstop

Don't forget the Freeper HAARP contingent. Morons.

So many morons, so little time.

45 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:59:18am

re: #36 NJDhockeyfan

Sandy is the work of Iran & Syria!

Heh.

...

I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.

46 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:59:28am

Romney playing campaign videos at ‘storm relief events’

Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney on Tuesday claimed that he had stopped campaigning due to Hurricane Sandy and instead was holding so-called “storm relief events” where campaign advertisements were played for attendees.

Romney, along with his wife, Ann, and vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan, stopped by campaign offices and attended events in the swing state of Ohio just a day after the hurricane devastated much of the east coast.

“Campaign video playing at ‘storm relief event’ – there is an area roped off for supplies,” USA Today‘s Jackie Kucinich tweeted along with a photo.

New York Times political reporter Michael Barbaro noted that a sign at the Trent Arena in Kettering called the event a “Republican Campaign Rally.”

NPR White House Correspondent Ari Shapiro tweeted a photo of press badge, which referred to the “storm relief event” in Dayton as a “victory rally.”

And even the music seemed at the Ohio events seemed more in line with a campaign rally than storm relief.

“So far Romney’s OH disaster relief event has every touchstone of a normal rally. Same warm up songs: Only in America, Hollywood Nights, etc,” Politico’s James Hohmann wrote on Twitter, adding, “‘Dancing in the street’ [which includes a lyric about New York City] just played at Romney’s Ohio event.”

47 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:59:48am

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

140 West Street is the Verizon building adjacent to 1 and 7 WTC. It's the NW corner of Ground Zero (Vesey at West).

48 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 10:59:57am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Well, I see that stupidity shares no national borders. Considering we got people in this country saying the hurricane happened because of gay marriages.

They are just borrowing the idiocy of the Bushitler-Cheney Hurricane Machine. Stupid is as stupid does.

49 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:00:43am

re: #48 NJDhockeyfan

They are just borrowing the idiocy of the Bushitler-Cheney Hurricane Machine. Stupid is as stupid does.

Becoming?

50 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:02:36am

re: #46 Kragar

Romney playing campaign videos at ‘storm relief events’

Classy.

51 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:03:28am

re: #46 Kragar

Romney playing campaign videos at ‘storm relief events’

Completely unsurprising. Mitt Romney has been demonstrating for years that he is the ultimate egomaniacal political opportunist. He has absolutely no shame about this kind of stuff.

52 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:04:03am

4 days to restore power in Manhattan/Brooklyn.

It may take more than 4 days to restore power elsewhere in Con Ed service area. Areas with coastal flooding could take even longer.

53 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:04:04am

HEAD DESK, BREATHTAKING FAIL

54 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:04:11am

Romney campaign falsely training Wisc. poll watchers that IDs ‘must include photo’

Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney’s campaign has been incorrectly training their election observers that photo IDs are required to vote in Wisconsin even though multiple courts have struck down the requirement, according to a report released on Tuesday.

The liberal website Think Progress obtained “Volunteer Observer Training” documents created by the Romney campaign that reportedly contain “downright false” and misleading information.

The most blatant falsehood occurs on page 16 of the document, which claims that the “ONLY acceptable forms of proof of residency” include an employer identification card “bearing a photo of the cardholder” and a student ID that “must include a photo.” Seven other forms of ID listed by the campaign did not include the photo requirement.

In fact, the Wisconsin Government Accountability Board website clearly states that a photo ID is “not required” to register to vote.

55 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:04:59am
56 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:05:03am

re: #53 Sheila Broflovski

HEAD DESK, BREATHTAKING FAIL

[Embedded content]

Well I guess someone wasn't in Ohio today.

57 erik_t  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:05:03am

I'm not offended that Romney wants to keep campaigning through this event. If he truly thinks he can offer a materially better four years for this country than Obama can, he should keep campaigning.

I am moderately offended that Romney thinks that my fellow Americans and I are so fucking stupid that he can simply call a campaign event a 'storm relief event' and thereby avoid any negative PR.

58 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:05:29am

re: #48 NJDhockeyfan

Then again, I think there are actual leaders and politicians in the Republican party who believe gays bring Gods wrath on the country, where as the Bush- Cheney Hurricane machine was pretty much relegated to a bunch of kooks living in vans DOWN BY THE RIVER.

59 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:06:29am

I gotta run. Have a safe day!

60 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:06:37am

re: #58 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate

Then again, I think there are actual leaders and politicians in the Republican party who believe gays bring Gods wrath on the country, where as the Bush- Cheney Hurricane machine was pretty much relegated to a bunch of kooks living in vans DOWN BY THE RIVER.

Heh, the GOP members of the House Science Committee is practically a Who's who in moronic statements about science.

61 danarchy  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:09:16am

re: #20 Targetpractice

Oh, and I must comment on the delicious irony of the last three storms to grace VA Beach. During Isabel, we lost power and spent almost two days without TV or internet. During Irene, we kept both, but my computer got fried. And now, during Sandy, we kept power, but our internet got fried.

It's almost as though some higher power wants to see me go through internet withdrawal once a year.

Three words "4G Mobile Hotspot".

Lost power for about 5 hours yesterday, but with a couple laptops and my Verizon Jetpack I never lost a beat.

62 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:09:34am

re: #8 Kragar

Engle: 'Prophetic Experiences Seemed to Indicate that Romney was a Sort of Window of Mercy to America '

i'm sorry, you're still not getting your own page in the DSM

63 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:11:27am

More disaster declarations have been issued, including for West Virginia.

64 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:12:05am

re: #57 erik_t

I'm not offended that Romney wants to keep campaigning through this event. If he truly thinks he can offer a materially better four years for this country than Obama can, he should keep campaigning.

I am moderately offended that Romney thinks that my fellow Americans and I are so fucking stupid that he can simply call a campaign event a 'storm relief event' and thereby avoid any negative PR.

I don't begrudge him it, but I don't think it's gonna silence all those who've been up in arms because "Obama kept campaigning after our ambassador died!"

65 erik_t  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:13:07am

re: #64 Targetpractice

I don't begrudge him it, but I don't think it's gonna silence all those who've been up in arms because "Obama kept campaigning after our ambassador died!"

Obama just should have called them 'terrorist hating events', and he'd have been in the clear.

66 alpuz  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:13:08am

re: #54 Kragar

Well, that puts them on equal footing with the tea party group from Texas that came in during the recalls. You know.. actual real life thugs, not just right-wing media manufactured thugs. I believe the area they concentrated on ended up recalling their GoP state senator to flip the senate.

I may be wrong. It's all a bit of a blur.

67 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:13:59am

Got a new scheme for the LGF search page that's going to be very, very fast.

Instead of pagination, you'll have a "More Results" button to show another page of results. I realized that when you have hundreds or thousands of search results, pagination is just silly. Who ever goes to page 639 of the search results? Nobody, that's who.

Doing it without pagination lets the search queries be almost instantaneous. This will be a much better LGF search page. And I've even figured out how to keep that nice results format when you search comments, with the comments grouped according to their articles.

68 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:15:09am

I mean if he wants to keep on campaigning. That's his right. But don't sell this as a "relief event". And as just pointed out, this is the same guy who accused Obama of continuing to campaign after Benghazi. He needs to pick a fucking narrative.

69 Obdicut  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:15:13am

re: #54 Kragar

Romney campaign falsely training Wisc. poll watchers that IDs ‘must include photo’

This should be criminal. Attempting to take the right to vote from fellow Americans is contemptible.

70 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:16:46am

re: #69 Obdicut

This should be criminal. Attempting to take the right to vote from fellow Americans is contemptible.

It really is. That's why I was so infuriated reading that story about the GOP employee here in Virginia who got busted throwing registrations in the trash. Seems to many that there are many in the GOP who feel that just because someone doesn't work their way, they shouldn't be able to vote.

71 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:17:28am

re: #68 HappyWarrior

I mean if he wants to keep on campaigning. That's his right. But don't sell this as a "relief event". And as just pointed out, this is the same guy who accused Obama of continuing to campaign after Benghazi. He needs to pick a fucking narrative.

And where is Obama now? That's right, locked up in the White House, monitoring the situation and overseeing the federal relief effort. Funny how none of those who got on his case for Benghazi can even acknowledge that he's taking his job seriously when millions of lives are in the balance.

72 AK-47%  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:17:51am

re: #69 Obdicut

This should be criminal. Attempting to take the right to vote from fellow Americans is contemptible.

I am tired of this discussion. Either we institute a national voter ID card - free of charge - to every single eligible citizen of the USA or we continue to live with the possibility and inevitability of this sort of thing happening at every election.

73 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:18:14am

re: #71 Targetpractice

And where is Obama now? That's right, locked up in the White House, monitoring the situation and overseeing the federal relief effort. Funny how none of those who got on his case for Benghazi can even acknowledge that he's taking his job seriously when millions of lives are in the balance.

They can never acknowledge him.

74 DisturbedEma  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:18:27am

shit just got Midwestern

75 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:19:35am

re: #72 AK-47%

I am tired of this discussion. Either we institute a national voter ID card - free of charge - to every single eligible citizen of the USA or we continue to live with the possibility and inevitability of this sort of thing happening at every election.

But.. STATES RIGHTS! BIG GOVERNMENT! HAARP! CHEMTRAILS!

76 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:20:07am

re: #72 AK-47%

I am tired of this discussion. Either we institute a national voter ID card - free of charge - to every single eligible citizen of the USA or we continue to live with the possibility and inevitability of this sort of thing happening at every election.

I'm good with the National voter ID card, except that I doubt it would stop with voting. Your SSN is supposed to ONLY be used for Social Security, and now it's your de facto credit number.

77 Obdicut  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:20:28am

re: #72 AK-47%

I am tired of this discussion. Either we institute a national voter ID card - free of charge - to every single eligible citizen of the USA or we continue to live with the possibility and inevitability of this sort of thing happening at every election.

No, that's a false dichotomy. The GOP leadership could also tell the truth: that there is astonishingly small amounts of voter fraud, and they could not lie to their campaign staff about the status of voter ID laws.

That'd be nice.

I am tired of the GOP trying to force us into corners by being assholes.

78 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:21:01am

re: #75 Kragar

But.. STATES RIGHTS! BIG GOVERNMENT! HAARP! CHEMTRAILS!

Considering that the states efforts to address a non-existent problem has only resulted in robbing lawful voters of their rights, I think I can speak for everyone here when I say: Fuck states rights.

79 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:21:25am

A Message from The Greatest Generation (NSFW)

Youtube Video

NSFW and Killgore Trout.

80 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:22:05am

re: #72 AK-47%

I am tired of this discussion. Either we institute a national voter ID card - free of charge - to every single eligible citizen of the USA or we continue to live with the possibility and inevitability of this sort of thing happening at every election.

It's working fine without a Voter ID card. Instituting that will disenfranchise more people. That's exactly what wingnuts are trying to do by pulling stunts like training "poll watchers" who lie about ID requirements.

81 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:22:43am

re: #78 Targetpractice

Considering that the states efforts to address a non-existent problem has only resulted in robbing lawful voters of their rights, I think I can speak for everyone here when I say: Fuck states rights.

Yes, this. Too often we see "states rights" used as an excuse to limit individual rights whether it's slavery, segregation, banning contraception, etc.

82 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:23:28am

re: #72 AK-47%

I am tired of this discussion. Either we institute a national voter ID card - free of charge - to every single eligible citizen of the USA or we continue to live with the possibility and inevitability of this sort of thing happening at every election.

Then the work will shift to convincing the proper sort that the election is being held on a different day.

Speaking of that, how soon until fliers appear saying that the election in PA, NJ, or NY has been delayed a day or two due to the effects of Sandy?
/

83 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:23:45am

re: #69 Obdicut
At first I misread that it was poll workers. Then I saw it's just his observers. Presumably the poll workers and Dem observers would set that straight fast.

Mis training partisan observers should be criminal? How much authority do these observers have? A few misguided conversations at the poll would seem to be the worst case scenario.

“Even if they simply slow the voting process down, this could discourage voters waiting in line and drive drown turnout.”

Looks possible, not probable. Unless Wisconsin has few polling places anyway.

84 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:24:48am

It would be fucking nice to not read about an election where people in areas that have demographic groups that favor a party being paraded with flies with incorrect election dates. To me it seems blatantly obvious that the GOP doesn't like high turnouts because this is something that by and large hurts their party at the polls. Not trying to sound like a CT nut but it really feels that way with all these "voter fraud" efforts that have conspicuously been put in many states that had gone from President Bush in 2004 to President Obama in 2008.

85 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:25:12am

re: #79 Gus

A Message from The Greatest Generation (NSFW)

[Embedded content]

NSFW and Killgore Trout.

Clearly a mission statement to propagate mayhem. I haven't enough pearls to clutch.

Anyone gone to the fever swamps and examined reactions? I tried The Blaze, and after the accusations of elder abuse and the wishing all the old people in the ad dead I'm kind of done with patience with RWNJ-ness for the day.

86 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:26:01am

re: #78 Targetpractice

Considering that the states efforts to address a non-existent problem has only resulted in robbing lawful voters of their rights, I think I can speak for everyone here when I say: Fuck states rights.

Back in the days where communications could take days if not weeks, and travel outside of 20 miles of your home was a major undertaking, then delegating down to the local authorities made sense.

As communications and other technologies have improved, making the world a smaller place, ideas such as states rights are just as archaic as saying only white land owners should be allowed the vote.

87 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:26:43am

re: #85 The Ghost of a Flea

Clearly a mission statement to propagate mayhem. I haven't enough pearls to clutch.

Anyone gone to the fever swamps and examined reactions? I tried The Blaze, and after the accusations of elder abuse and the wishing all the old people in the ad dead I'm kind of done with patience with RWNJ-ness for the day.

Not I. All I know is that there was an attempt towards creating mass fainting spells in the previous thread this morning. Finally watched. It's hilarious.

88 Obdicut  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:27:18am

re: #83 Daniel Ballard

Mis training partisan observers should be criminal? How much authority do these observers have? A few misguided conversations at the poll would seem to be the worst case scenario.

The worst case scenario is one of these people preventing fellow Americans from voting.

Which is taking away the fundamental right of self-determination on which our government and society depends.

I really, really wish people who got upset at the idea of phantom illegal voters spent 1/10th of that energy on attempts at voter disenfranchisement. Instead, for some reason, it's basically seen as a voter's 'fault' if they get disfranchised.

89 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:27:55am

re: #83 Daniel Ballard

At first I misread that it was poll workers. Then I saw it's just his observers. Presumably the poll workers and Dem observers would set that straight fast.

Mis training partisan observers should be criminal? How much authority do these observers have? A few misguided conversations at the poll would seem to be the worst case scenario.

“Even if they simply slow the voting process down, this could discourage voters waiting in line and drive drown turnout.”

Looks possible, not probable. Unless Wisconsin has few polling places anyway.

Why allow a possible bad outcome by people who want exactly that? Are you making excuses for these people by minimizing the risk?

90 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:28:27am

re: #86 Kragar

Back in the days where communications could take days if not weeks, and travel outside of 20 miles of your home was a major undertaking, then delegating down to the local authorities made sense.

As communications and other technologies have improved, making the world a smaller place, ideas such as states rights are just as archaic as saying only white land owners should be allowed the vote.

Agreed. Used to be that the local government was more knowledgeable about what was happening within the bounds of their authority and could better handle it than man hundreds of miles away. But in the modern era, when one can get a general idea of local matters in any town, city, or state within a day via a Google search, suggesting the states be viewed as the best authority for handling matters that effect the nation at large is antiquated at best.

91 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:28:35am

The problem I have with the whole pre-Civil-War "state's rights" arguments is that in many states only one adult in four could vote. That's hardly government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

And, surprise, in those states the laws egregiously favored white men. No woman came up with the idea that when she got married, she forfeited all her possessions to her husband, or that it was perfectly legal to beat your wife.

92 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:29:24am

re: #83 Daniel Ballard

At first I misread that it was poll workers. Then I saw it's just his observers. Presumably the poll workers and Dem observers would set that straight fast.

Mis training partisan observers should be criminal? How much authority do these observers have? A few misguided conversations at the poll would seem to be the worst case scenario.

“Even if they simply slow the voting process down, this could discourage voters waiting in line and drive drown turnout.”

Looks possible, not probable. Unless Wisconsin has few polling places anyway.

Oregon--vote by mail. I vote sitting in a comfy chair.

93 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:31:46am

re: #92 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Oregon--vote by mail. I vote sitting in a comfy chair.

No one expects the Spanish poll watcher.

94 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:32:04am

re: #91 Mostly sane, most of the time.

The problem I have with the whole pre-Civil-War "state's rights" arguments is that in many states only one adult in four could vote. That's hardly government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

And, surprise, in those states the laws egregiously favored white men. No woman came up with the idea that when she got married, she forfeited all her possessions to her husband, or that it was perfectly legal to beat your wife.

State's rights were always laughable. Slave states routinely violated the rights of free states with their "runaway slave laws", plus the Slave States were perfectly happy with a strong Federal government if it happened to back them up.

95 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:32:15am

re: #89 wrenchwench

I'm reacting to what looks to me someone making a mountain out of a molehill. Think Progress is an LW advocate site. I have never experienced a line of more than 15 minutes to vote. I can easily imagine a poll worker saying to the observer "shut up I'm busy" while getting people in and through to vote.

Do observers have any authority? If they do then I'm wrong. If not, this looks like base raising outrage more than real risk of disenfranchising.

96 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:32:46am

re: #92 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Oregon--vote by mail. I vote sitting in a comfy chair.

Under the watchful eye of the Inquisition.

97 erik_t  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:32:59am

re: #95 Daniel Ballard

I'm reacting to what looks to me someone making a mountain out of a molehill. Think Progress is an LW advocate site. I have never experienced a line of more than 15 minutes to vote.

Then you've been voting in much wealthier areas than I. I think it was two hours in 2008.

98 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:32:59am

But he can't pass up a photo op.

99 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:33:04am

re: #91 Mostly sane, most of the time.

The problem I have with the whole pre-Civil-War "state's rights" arguments is that in many states only one adult in four could vote. That's hardly government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

And, surprise, in those states the laws egregiously favored white men. No woman came up with the idea that when she got married, she forfeited all her possessions to her husband, or that it was perfectly legal to beat your wife.

Remember that the same people that mouthed "State's Rights" when it came to their slave-holding suddenly got very federalist when it came to enforcing Fugitive Slave Laws.

That shit has consistently been hypocritical and self-serving, and still is.

100 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:33:14am
101 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:33:42am

re: #95 Daniel Ballard

I'm reacting to what looks to me someone making a mountain out of a molehill. Think Progress is an LW advocate site. I have never experienced a line of more than 15 minutes to vote. I can easily imagine a poll worker saying to the observer "shut up I'm busy" while getting people in and through to vote.

Do observers have any authority? If they do then I'm wrong. If not, this looks like base raising outrage more than real risk of disenfranchising.

I'll let you know tonight. We're going for our poll-watcher training today.

102 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:33:49am

29 inches of snow in Maryland!

103 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:34:14am

I just got a call from my Dad. He does not have power. My step mother will be coming over later today to charge her cell phone.

104 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:34:36am

re: #95 Daniel Ballard

I'm reacting to what looks to me someone making a mountain out of a molehill. Think Progress is an LW advocate site. I have never experienced a line of more than 15 minutes to vote. I can easily imagine a poll worker saying to the observer "shut up I'm busy" while getting people in and through to vote.

Do observers have any authority? If they do then I'm wrong. If not, this looks like base raising outrage more than real risk of disenfranchising.

If molehills were taken seriously, nobody would have to look like they were making mountains of them.

Take out the molehill of deliberate misinformation being purposely spread with the intent of disenfranchising people, and there will be no mountain of outrage.

105 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:34:44am

re: #88 Obdicut

The worst case scenario is one of these people preventing fellow Americans from voting.

Which is taking away the fundamental right of self-determination on which our government and society depends.

I really, really wish people who got upset at the idea of phantom illegal voters spent 1/10th of that energy on attempts at voter disenfranchisement. Instead, for some reason, it's basically seen as a voter's 'fault' if they get disfranchised.

How exactly is this observer going to assert the authority to stop anyone from voting? Are the polls severely understaffed? Don't observers just observe?

106 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:34:51am

re: #99 The Ghost of a Flea

Remember that the same people that mouthed "State's Rights" when it came to their slave-holding suddenly got very federalist when it came to enforcing Fugitive Slave Laws.

That shit has consistently been hypocritical and self-serving, and still is.

Yeah, it's always been hypocritical. It has from the get go though even before the Fugitive Slave Laws.

107 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:35:09am

re: #94 Kragar

State's rights were always laughable. Slave states routinely violated the rights of free states with their "runaway slave laws", plus the Slave States were perfectly happy with a strong Federal government if it happened to back them up.

Which is why we got a civil war out of the slavery issue, because the South was increasingly worried that a rapidly industrializing North would eventually be able to force the matter on them and the federal government was less inclined to continue putting up with their bullshit.

108 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:35:20am

re: #102 Gus

29 inches of snow in Maryland!

Whereabouts? I'm pretty close to the border. Just cold and wet here.

109 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:35:45am

re: #103 PhillyPretzel

I just got a call from my Dad. He does not have power. My step mother will be coming over later today to charge her cell phone.

Someone makes a hand-cranked NOAA weather radio that has a USB cell-phone charging port.

110 Interesting Times  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:36:39am

re: #98 Sheila Broflovski

[Embedded content]

But he can't pass up a photo op.

111 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:37:49am

re: #107 Targetpractice

Which is why we got a civil war out of the slavery issue, because the South was increasingly worried that a rapidly industrializing North would eventually be able to force the matter on them and the federal government was less inclined to continue putting up with their bullshit.

Here are the numbers:

Union: 22 million people
Confederacy: 9 million people, 3.9 million of whom were slaves

The Emancipation Proclamation meant that the South suddenly had 3.9 million people inside their borders that had a powerful interest in seeing them lose.

112 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:38:10am
113 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:38:17am

re: #92 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Oregon--vote by mail. I vote sitting in a comfy chair.

Confess!

(Oh wait, you said "a comfy chair", not "THE comfy chair". Nevermind.)
;)

114 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:39:03am

re: #105 Daniel Ballard

How exactly is this observer going to assert the authority to stop anyone from voting? Are the polls severely understaffed? Don't observers just observe?

Here's a pdf of guidelines
[Link: your.kingcounty.gov...]
Observers observe.

115 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:39:16am

You know, I love how Lincoln gets blamed by the neo-confederates for the war even though seven of the eleven states seceded from the Union before Lincoln even became president. And of course it was Confederate troops that fired on Fort Sumter. Really, the "Lost Cause" name for the Civil War is a joke. It wasn't a war of Northern Aggression. It was a war of secessionists who couldn't take the fact that Lincoln was elected president. And before we call Lincoln an extremist. Let's also look at the fact that Stephen Douglas, Lincoln's old adversary from the famous debates and one of his 1860 opponents were a staunch unionist too and spent much of the time before he died in early 1861 trying to rally for the Union.

116 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:39:25am

Okay never mind. Since no one has an answer to how theses observers are going to disenfranchise anyone apart from a moments conversation with a pollworker, I can see even just questioning accusations is perceived by some.

TP is the gospel. Got it. I withdraw my questioning of TP.

117 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:39:26am

re: #79 Gus

A Message from The Greatest Generation (NSFW)

[Embedded content]

NSFW and Killgore Trout.

Oh yeah. I may just have to post that one. Would that be trolling my own site?

118 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:39:41am

re: #109 Decatur Deb

I have that too. :)

119 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:39:55am

re: #111 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Here are the numbers:

Union: 22 million people
Confederacy: 9 million people, 3.9 million of whom were slaves

The Emancipation Proclamation meant that the South suddenly had 3.9 million people inside their borders that had a powerful interest in seeing them lose.

Ayep, slavery goes, they lose their economy. Or, rather, they have to start compensating their former slaves for their work, something that man of the plantation rich were never going to accept.

It's why I always get a kick out of the Neo-Confederates who like to talk about how we could have had a peaceful emancipation, with slavery gradually going away. A fantasy that has kept going for decades.

120 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:40:02am

re: #108 HappyWarrior

Whereabouts? I'm pretty close to the border. Just cold and wet here.

Redhouse

121 Interesting Times  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:40:29am

re: #117 Charles Johnson

Oh yeah. I may just have to post that one. Would that be trolling my own site?

Post it as tonight's Overnight Thread so the Morning Wingnut Wave™ is sure to wake up to it ;)

122 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:40:59am

re: #119 Targetpractice

Ayep, slavery goes, they lose their economy. Or, rather, they have to start compensating their former slaves for their work, something that man of the plantation rich were never going to accept.

It's why I always get a kick out of the Neo-Confederates who like to talk about how we could have had a peaceful emancipation, with slavery gradually going away. A fantasy that has kept going for decades.

England had a peaceful emancipation, but England had an entirely different scenario--none of the slaves were in England.

123 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:41:04am

re: #117 Charles Johnson

Oh yeah. I may just have to post that one. Would that be trolling my own site?

As long as you have pearls and fainting couches available you'll be fine.

//

Go for it! :D

124 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:41:42am

re: #120 Gus

Redhouse

Ah did a google map calcuatlion. That's about a two hour drive from here.

125 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:42:27am

re: #116 Daniel Ballard

Okay never mind. Since no one has an answer to how theses observers are going to disenfranchise anyone apart from a moments conversation with a pollworker, I can see even just questioning accusations is perceived by some.

TP is the gospel. Got it. I withdraw my questioning of TP.

That's bullshit. They are distributing bad information with bad intent, and because nobody can say exactly how it will be used, you're fine with it.

126 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:43:03am

re: #122 Mostly sane, most of the time.

England had a peaceful emancipation, but England had an entirely different scenario--none of the slaves were in England.

Exactly. Plus the English and French were willing to let the slavery issue sit on the backburner so long as the South was willing to continue doing business with them.

127 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:43:23am

re: #117 Charles Johnson

Oh yeah. I may just have to post that one. Would that be trolling my own site?

You could add a link to think progress or MSNBC as a bonus!

128 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:44:10am

re: #127 Killgore Trout

You could add a link to think progress or MSNBC as a bonus!

Make sure you BYOBO.

129 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:44:34am
130 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:45:11am

re: #127 Killgore Trout

It's hilarious! Oh, sorry - was I supposed to be upset?

131 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:46:27am

re: #129 Sheila Broflovski

[Embedded content]

I'm getting sick and tired of right wing hacks who have never met me telling me what I "think" as a liberal.

132 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:46:45am

re: #119 Targetpractice

Ayep, slavery goes, they lose their economy. Or, rather, they have to start compensating their former slaves for their work, something that man of the plantation rich were never going to accept.

It's why I always get a kick out of the Neo-Confederates who like to talk about how we could have had a peaceful emancipation, with slavery gradually going away. A fantasy that has kept going for decades.

No, the slaveholders fully intended to expand slavery into the Western territories. Breeding slaves was a big money-maker for them, and they weren't about to give it up.

133 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:46:46am

re: #129 Sheila Broflovski

[Embedded content]

134 danarchy  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:46:49am

re: #109 Decatur Deb

Someone makes a hand-cranked NOAA weather radio that has a USB cell-phone charging port.

There are a few of these out there. Unfortunately it takes A LOT of cranking to get even a minimal charge on your phone. On my motorola bionic it tooka solid 5 minutes of cranking from a totally dead battery to even get the thing to turn on. 5 minutes may not sound like a lot, but when you are cranking away it can seem interminable. You are better off running it in your car charger for a few minutes(assuming you have a car and car charger).

135 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:47:18am

re: #125 wrenchwench

That's bullshit. They are distributing bad information with bad intent, and because nobody can say exactly how it will be used, you're fine with it.

That's sure what it looks like. This isn't just a mistake, they're out to mislead people on purpose.

136 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:47:31am

BYOBO = Bring Your Own Butthurt Ointment

:D

137 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:47:48am
138 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:48:19am

re: #134 danarchy

There are a few of these out there. Unfortunately it takes A LOT of cranking to get even a minimal charge on your phone. On my motorola bionic it tooka solid 5 minutes of cranking from a totally dead battery to even get the thing to turn on. 5 minutes may not sound like a lot, but when you are cranking away it can seem interminable. You are better off running it in your car charger for a few minutes(assuming you have a car and car charger).

Depends on which end of you the bear is eating.

139 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:49:07am

re: #130 Charles Johnson

It's hilarious! Oh, sorry - was I supposed to be upset?

Of course I wouldn't expect you to be upset. I didn't find it funny. I saw it days ago and found it unremarkable.

140 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:49:23am

Garrett County by the way guys is that far western end of Maryland.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

141 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:49:51am

Damage to NJ Coast Line - boat and container on bridge:

142 erik_t  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:50:30am

Don't feed the troll.

143 funky chicken  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:50:45am

One thing he’s gonna be asked is, why did he jump on [the hurricane] so quickly and go back to D.C. so quickly when in…Benghazi, he went to Las Vegas? Why was this so quick?… At some point, somebody’s going to ask that question…. This is like the inverse of Benghazi.
— 
Michael “Brownie” Brown, who was forced to resign as Director of FEMA after his lethargic, horrible response to Hurricane Katrina

144 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:50:58am

re: #141 lawhawk

This cleanup is going to be enormously expensive. I don't even want to speculate about the cost.

145 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:51:46am

Sandy by the numbers: See who got the most rain, snow and gustiest wind

Highest snow amounts by state:

Redhouse, Md.: 26.0"
Bowden, W.Va.: 24.0"
Champion, Pa.: 13.0"
Buladean, N.C.: 8.0"
Wise, Va.: 14.0"
Gatlinburg, Tenn.: 17.0"
Payne Gap, Ky.: 14.0"
Bellefontaine, Ohio: 3.5"

Of course "snowfall" will make the wingnuts howl.

146 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:52:05am

re: #126 Targetpractice

Exactly. Plus the English and French were willing to let the slavery issue sit on the backburner so long as the South was willing to continue doing business with them.

They disliked slavery, they liked (needed) cotton, but they loved the Emancipation Proclamation.

147 AK-47%  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:52:21am

re: #143 funky chicken

One thing he’s gonna be asked is, why did he jump on [the hurricane] so quickly and go back to D.C. so quickly when in…Benghazi, he went to Las Vegas? Why was this so quick?… At some point, somebody’s going to ask that question…. This is like the inverse of Benghazi.
— 
Michael “Brownie” Brown, who was forced to resign as Director of FEMA after his lethargic, horrible response to Hurricane Katrina

I think we should start rating storm comments on a "Benghazi" scale. This one gets two Benghazis.

148 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:52:38am

re: #144 Charles Johnson

This cleanup is going to be enormously expensive. I don't even want to speculate about the cost.

That's productive work. Better to have been fixing our backlog of infrastructure repair, but it's a short-term gain in the end. Can't offshore cleanup.

149 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:52:48am

Hoboken Terminal in Hoboken:

That's also where the PATH station was washed out by flooding.

150 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:53:04am

re: #116 Daniel Ballard

Okay never mind. Since no one has an answer to how theses observers are going to disenfranchise anyone apart from a moments conversation with a pollworker, I can see even just questioning accusations is perceived by some.

TP is the gospel. Got it. I withdraw my questioning of TP.

International:

What Do Election Observers Do?

Each observer carries a checklist of questions, which he or she consults as the first votes come in. Where are the unused ballots stored? Are police present? Are there any signs of voter intimidation or a lack of voter secrecy? And so on. Some checklists encourage observers to interview a few voters at each site, with spaces to fill in their answers to some basic questions. At the bottom of the checklist the observer usually states his or her overall impression of the polling station, by giving a number from 1 to 10, or by circling a phrase from "Very bad" to "Very good."

At the end of the day, the observers will review the counting process, either at the local or national level. They make note of how many votes are being invalidated and for what reasons and where and how the ballot boxes are being opened. Observers work long days, often logging more than 24 hours without significant breaks.

During the election itself, observers can't intervene. They can question officials about possible improprieties, but they can't tell anyone what to do, nor can they announce any findings to the media. When the election is over, the various teams pool their findings and issue their reports.

National:

About Federal Observers and Election Monitoring

Elections Observers can't intervene during the votes, but their analysis and critiques can be used to challenge the legitimacy of an election after the results are published.

By training election monitors to critique according to fictive standards, you're changing the grading and evaluation of the fairness of individuals polling stations and thus the validity of their count.

Maybe be more patient next time before getting all righteous.

151 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:53:43am

re: #147 AK-47%

I think we should start rating storm comments on a "Benghazi" scale. This one gets two Benghazis.

Something wrong with the Beaufort scale?

Just about everything that can be measured, scientifically, has a scale--Mohs, Richter, Beaufort, etc.

152 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:54:32am

re: #139 Killgore Trout

Of course I wouldn't expect you to be upset. I didn't find it funny. I saw it days ago and found it unremarkable.

Yet you continue to remark.

153 funky chicken  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:54:44am

re: #143 funky chicken

One thing he’s gonna be asked is, why did he jump on [the hurricane] so quickly and go back to D.C. so quickly when in…Benghazi, he went to Las Vegas? Why was this so quick?… At some point, somebody’s going to ask that question…. This is like the inverse of Benghazi.
— 
Michael “Brownie” Brown, who was forced to resign as Director of FEMA after his lethargic, horrible response to Hurricane Katrina

And I just saw this on the Gawker.com backup site, so it may be parody.

154 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:55:16am

re: #135 Charles Johnson

That's sure what it looks like. This isn't just a mistake, they're out to mislead people on purpose.

Wisconsin, California, Arizona, New Mexico....but how could they possibly do any harm? ///

If it's so bloody ineffective, why are they spending millions to train thousands how to be "poll watchers" armed with misinformation?

155 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:55:18am

re: #151 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Something wrong with the Beaufort scale?

Just about everything that can be measured, scientifically, has a scale--Mohs, Richter, Beaufort, etc.

Milli-Helen. Beauty sufficient to launch 1 ship.

156 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:55:22am

Can't wait to see that Lincoln movie. I've liked DDL in everything I've seen him in.

157 kirkghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:56:15am

re: #132 aagcobb

No, the slaveholders fully intended to expand slavery into the Western territories. Breeding slaves was a big money-maker for them, and they weren't about to give it up.

Actually, breeding slaves was the primary money-maker for them. So much so that, if I recall correctly, it was this that made the difference between profit and loss for the older slave-states such as Virginia and the Carolinas.

158 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:56:27am

re: #154 wrenchwench

Wisconsin, California, Arizona, New Mexico....but how could they possibly do any harm? ///

If it's so bloody ineffective, why are they spending millions to train thousands how to be "poll watchers" armed with misinformation?

Dems are countering, with volunteers.

159 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:57:20am

My daughter went to work! Somebody in her neighborhood organized a car pool. And managed to locate a car that wasn't in a pool.

160 ShaunP  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:57:43am

re: #153 funky chicken

And I just saw this on the Gawker.com backup site, so it may be parody.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

161 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 11:59:13am

WHY CAN'T YOU GIVE IT TO THEM YOURSELF ASS HOLE?

162 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:00:23pm

re: #161 Sheila Broflovski

WHY CAN'T YOU GIVE IT TO THEM YOURSELF ASS HOLE?

[Embedded content]

He's predictable. You got to give him that. Wonder if he talked to Mitt today.

163 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:00:41pm

Someone get Kilgore to bite down on his wallet

Bank of England official: Occupy movement was right about global recession

The Occupy Movement has found an unlikely ally in a senior Bank of England official, Andrew Haldane, who has praised protesters for their role in triggering an overhaul of the financial services sector.

Haldane, who oversees the City for the central bank, said Occupy acted as a lever on policymakers despite criticism that its aims were too vague. He said the protest movement was right to focus on inequality as the chief reason for the 2008 crash, following studies that showed the accumulation of huge wealth funded by debt was directly responsible for the domino-like collapse of the banking sector in 2008.

Speaking at a debate held by the Occupy Movement in central London, Haldane said regulations limiting credit use would undermine attempts by individuals to accumulate huge property and financial wealth at the expense of other members of society. Allowing banks to lend on a massive scale also drained funding from other industries, adding to the negative impact that unregulated banks had on the economy, he said.

164 KiTA  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:00:43pm

So I'm guessing this is Gov. Christie gearing himself up for a 2016 run?

165 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:01:25pm

re: #164 KiTA

So I'm guessing this is Gov. Christie gearing himself up for a 2016 run?

Possibly. Or maybe he's a responsible adult who is the governor of a state that has been hit by a major disaster?

166 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:01:38pm
167 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:02:05pm

re: #161 Sheila Broflovski

WHY CAN'T YOU GIVE IT TO THEM YOURSELF ASS HOLE?

Look at what you made me do is a pivotal concept in being a dickhead.

168 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:02:07pm

re: #164 KiTA

So I'm guessing this is Gov. Christie gearing himself up for a 2016 run?

That was keynoting the RNC.

169 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:02:10pm

re: #150 The Ghost of a Flea

Elections Observers can't intervene during the votes, but their analysis and critiques can be used to challenge the legitimacy of an election after the results are published.

Well that certainly undermines the point made at TP just as i dared to think. Always reconsider accusations from advocacy sites. NRA, TP, Kos, Romney dot com all of them.

170 Obdicut  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:02:13pm

re: #105 Daniel Ballard

How exactly is this observer going to assert the authority to stop anyone from voting? Are the polls severely understaffed? Don't observers just observe?

Observers have the right to confirm the whole voting process, including the demonstration of identity in whatever form it's required. So if they wrongly believe that IDs are necessary, they are going to state that. If voters hear them, or the poll workers are cowed by them or don't rebuke them, then voters can indeed be disenfranchised. In addition, showing a conflict between the poll workers and the poll observers will lead to doubt and uncertainty about the process that taints the whole.

How fucking hard is it for people supposedly obsessed with the legalities of voting to get the legalities of voting correct? What possible defense is there for spreading disinformation?

171 darthstar  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:02:46pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

Oh yeah. I may just have to post that one. Would that be trolling my own site?

I think you're allowed.

172 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:03:15pm

re: #166 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

173 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:03:53pm

re: #23 Kragar

Christie doesn’t ‘give a damn’ about Romney photo op

The cynical misanthrope in me is unimpressed.

174 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:04:13pm
175 efuseakay  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:04:17pm

re: #171 darthstar

I think you're allowed.

Better check the fine print!

176 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:05:03pm

re: #174 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yeah this is a benefit for the victims my ass. It's a fucking campaign rally.

177 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:06:14pm

Vote for Romney and be happy you have a can of creamed corn to take back to your shanty, peasant!

178 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:06:30pm

re: #170 Obdicut

Calm down. I did not defend the practice. I had some justified skepticism about the consequences. That's it.

179 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:07:27pm

re: #174 Kragar

"This is for the 47% who think they are 'entitled' to food. Eat this creamed corn and like it, freeloaders!"

180 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:07:42pm

re: #169 Daniel Ballard

Elections Observers can't intervene during the votes, but their analysis and critiques can be used to challenge the legitimacy of an election after the results are published.

Well that certainly undermines the point made at TP just as i dared to think. Always reconsider accusations from advocacy sites. NRA, TP, Kos, Romney dot com all of them.

So, the Romney campaign is arming their poll watchers with bad information for fun?

181 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:07:50pm

re: #177 Kragar

Vote for Romney and be happy you have a can of creamed corn to take back to your shanty, peasant!

Mitt Romney's hurricane relief.

182 Kragarghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:08:13pm

Disaster relief isn't about handing someone a blanket and a bottle of water, its about rebuilding their lives after they've lost their homes, possessions and livelihoods.

183 darthstar  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:08:27pm

re: #162 HappyWarrior

He's predictable. You got to give him that. Wonder if he talked to Mitt today.

And I'd like to shove a can of corn up his ass too.

184 Gus  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:08:55pm

re: #183 darthstar

And I'd like to shove a can of corn up his ass too.

Violence!

[Faints]

185 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:09:13pm

re: #161 Sheila Broflovski

WHY CAN'T YOU GIVE IT TO THEM YOURSELF ASS HOLE?

[Embedded content]

Anyone with a brain knows that if Obama gave Trump college and passport documents, Trump would declare them to be forgeries and refuse to pay the $5 million.

186 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:09:15pm

re: #170 Obdicut

Observers have the right to confirm the whole voting process, including the demonstration of identity in whatever form it's required. So if they wrongly believe that IDs are necessary, they are going to state that. If voters hear them, or the poll workers are cowed by them or don't rebuke them, then votes can indeed be disenfranchised. In addition, showing a conflict between the poll workers and the poll observers will lead to doubt and uncertainty about the process that taints the whole.

How fucking hard is it for people supposedly obsessed with the legalities of voting to get the legalities of voting correct? What possible defense is there for spreading disinformation?

That's why both parties try to have poll watchers. The one that can't field enough is at a disadvantage.

187 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:09:24pm

re: #45 Targetpractice

...

I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.

Knock yaself a pro, Slick.

188 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:10:03pm

re: #169 Daniel Ballard

Elections Observers can't intervene during the votes, but their analysis and critiques can be used to challenge the legitimacy of an election after the results are published.

Well that certainly undermines the point made at TP just as i dared to think. Always reconsider accusations from advocacy sites. NRA, TP, Kos, Romney dot com all of them.

You didn't do the footwork to come to your conclusion via evidence. You guessed, and I provided information that included a sentence that allowed to confirm your GUESS.

That's fucking dumb. Don't talk down to people hear about being "daring."

Also what Obdi said #170

189 Obdicut  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:10:39pm

re: #178 Daniel Ballard

Calm down. I did not defend the practice. I had some justified skepticism about the consequences. That's it.

The minimum consequences are spreading uncertainty about the legal requirements of voting. The maximum consequences are citizens deprived of the right to vote.

I really don't get why this doesn't make you damn mad. I really don't. Lying about the process of voting is fucking around with the absolutely fundamental basis of our government and democracy. If you view the astonishingly small incident of voter fraud as a serious problem-- and you've posted about it over and over-- then not apply that same concern to shit like this?

I don't get it.

Edit: And this isn't some ragtag bunch of sovereign citizen extremists or something. This is the goddamn campaign of the GOP candidate for president.

190 engineer cat  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:20:20pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

I'm getting sick and tired of right wing hacks who have never met me telling me what I "think" as a liberal.

these days i start all discussions with wingnuts with "you're not allowed to tell me what i think", but it doesn't make any difference. within five minutes they're doing it anyway

191 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:21:26pm

re: #190 engineer cat

these days i start all discussions with wingnuts with "you're not allowed to tell me what i think", but it doesn't make any difference. within five minutes they're doing it anyway

I get a kick out of it. I like being assumed that I'm a vegan organic hippie pacifist commie even though I'm none of those.

192 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:34:48pm

re: #189 Obdicut

The minimum consequences are spreading uncertainty about the legal requirements of voting. The maximum consequences are citizens deprived of the right to vote.

I really don't get why this doesn't make you damn mad. I really don't. Lying about the process of voting is fucking around with the absolutely fundamental basis of our government and democracy. If you view the astonishingly small incident of voter fraud as a serious problem-- and you've posted about it over and over-- then not apply that same concern to shit like this?

I don't get it.

Edit: And this isn't some ragtag bunch of sovereign citizen extremists or something. This is the goddamn campaign of the GOP candidate for president.

Misinformed observers is a big deal? AFAIK-My anger is more closely proportionate to the likely level of consequences. As you say there are so few fraudulent votes, why bather about it at all. . This is on the same scale of effects.

This one? Meh. I remain unimpressed, this pales in comparison to far more valid issues such as too few polling places.

193 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:37:04pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout

Here's a pdf of guidelines
[Link: your.kingcounty.gov...]
Observers observe.

That may depend on the state. A document provided by the Massachusetts Secretery of State (doc file) says:

Any person may challenge a voter for any legal cause. G. L. c. 54, §§ 85, 85A (2002 ed.); 950 C.M.R. 54.04(23). Such reasons are numerous and include that a person: is not who they say they are; does not live where they say they live; is not registered in the correct district; is not qualified to vote by absentee ballot; was not registered to vote by the close of registration; or, has already cast a ballot. It is not sufficient for the challenger to simply say that a voter is not qualified; the challenger must state the specific reason for challenging the right of a person to vote, and that specific reason must be recorded on the ballot. If a person makes a challenge for an unspecified reason, the election worker should thereafter ask the challenger what specific reason they wish to have recorded. If, after being so questioned by the election official, the challenger gives no specific reason, the voter should be permitted to vote, and should not be considered a challenged voter.

Note this says any person and does not contain any language excluding observers, or provide for any sanction against frivolous challenges. And if the observers are there and challenge enough people, they can certainly intimidate voters into not voting or slow down the process enough so that some voters decide they can't afford to wait.

194 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:38:58pm

re: #69 Obdicut

This should be criminal. Attempting to take the right to vote from fellow Americans is contemptible.

They try it at my polling place, I'll have the PD (next door in the building) escort them out.

195 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:51:41pm

re: #188 The Ghost of a Flea

You didn't do the footwork to come to your conclusion via evidence. You guessed, and I provided information that included a sentence that allowed to confirm your GUESS.

That's fucking dumb. Don't talk down to people hear about being "daring."

Also what Obdi said #170

That's neither talking down nor dumb. It's talking across to the popular ideology here. Which is getting harder to do as the race tightens and nears.
Late edit
And you showed TP to be WRONG. Thanks for that anyway.

196 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:56:30pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

I get a kick out of it. I like being assumed that I'm a vegan organic hippie pacifist commie even though I'm none of those.

Would you like to be?
:)

197 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:56:53pm

re: #195 Daniel Ballard

That's neither talking down nor dumb. It's talking across to the popular ideology here. Which is getting harder to do as the race tightens and nears.

And whose fault is that? Have you thought about what you're defending here?

198 Mentis Fugit  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:57:29pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

That's bullshit. They are distributing bad information with bad intent, and because nobody can say exactly how it will be used, you're fine with it.

Second-order effects? The observer just has to believe their instructions to get the ball rolling.

Observer: "This voter has not shown photo ID."
Poll worker: "This voter is not required to show photo ID."
Observer: "But it states quite clearly in my manual..."
Poll worker: "Screw your 'manual'. This person's vote will be counted."
Observer: "The poll workers are in the tank for Obama!"
Tea Party: "Outrage! The poll workers have been bought out by the Kenyan usurper."
Fox News chyron: "HAS OBAMA PERVERTED THE COURSE OF THE ELECTION?"
Glen Berk, Bile O'Reilly, Sean Hanjobbity, etc: "AMPLIFIED OUTRAGE, and buy my book."
Rush Limbaugh: "Warble fargle bloviarble slut grumble fart."
Ann Coulter: oh, who the fuck cares what she says

And welcome to another four years...

199 HappyBenghazi  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 12:58:15pm

re: #196 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Would you like to be?
:)

Nah. I like capitalism, meat, and I'm no pacifist.

200 Obdicut  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 1:06:55pm

re: #192 Daniel Ballard

Misinformed observers is a big deal? AFAIK-My anger is more closely proportionate to the likely level of consequences. As you say there are so few fraudulent votes, why bather about it at all. . This is on the same scale of effects.

I'm glad you are now acknowledging that there is no actual substance to the 'voter fraud' non-issue.

201 Kaessa  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 1:20:17pm

re: #95 Daniel Ballard

I'm reacting to what looks to me someone making a mountain out of a molehill. Think Progress is an LW advocate site. I have never experienced a line of more than 15 minutes to vote. I can easily imagine a poll worker saying to the observer "shut up I'm busy" while getting people in and through to vote.

Just because you've never experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Election before last, I waited in line for over 3 hours. My husband didn't vote because he couldn't take any more time off of work and had to leave.

This is not uncommon.

202 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 1:23:28pm

re: #201 Kaessa

Just because you've never experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Election before last, I waited in line for over 3 hours. My husband didn't vote because he couldn't take any more time off of work and had to leave.

This is not uncommon.

Same for being harassed at a polling place by a "poll watcher". Mr. Ballard is not in the target demographic. Easy for him to call it a molehill.

203 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 1:44:12pm

re: #201 Kaessa

Well now we know the observers may not interfere. Back to the far more substantive issue of enough polls and polling places. And implementing HAVA.

204 carey94tt  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 1:49:15pm

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

That is the most disappointing news I've heard all day.

205 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 1:54:22pm

re: #200 Obdicut

Now that we saw observers are not allowed to interfere, you should consider the admission TP got this wrong or at least exaggerated in actual vote count consequences.

You may recall the instance I found of real proven illegal alien votes that got counted right? Dole Vs Sanchez-hundreds of illegal votes, not enough to overturn.
Wiki.
Following the narrow defeat, Dornan alleged that Sanchez's winning margin was provided by illegal voting from non-U.S. citizens. A thirteen-month House of Representatives investigation ensued, during which Sanchez was seated provisionally, pending the inquiry.[15] A task force found 748 votes that had been cast illegally—624 from non-citizens in addition to 124 that had already been thrown out by California officials. This was not enough to overturn Sanchez' margin of victory and she was allowed to keep her seat.[16] However, in consultation with the INS, the House committee identified as many as 4,700 questionable registration affidavits.[17] The probe was dropped before these affidavits could be investigated.

So it's about degree and how close an election is at the end of the day.

The closer it is the more these tiny factors matter. It's just the math. And that is why I support HAVA. And decry Voter ID when motivated or likely to disenfranchise.

206 carey94tt  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:01:10pm

re: #141 lawhawk

Force work-from-home programs...perhaps this hurricane was orchestrated by the administration after all.

207 Obdicut  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:05:53pm

re: #203 Daniel Ballard

Well now we know the observers may not interfere. Back to the far more substantive issue of enough polls and polling places. And implementing HAVA.

No, we don't, since they may challenge legitimacy. And they also are supposed to, if they believe there is a problem, tell the CEI person of the problem. So this will result in poll observers telling CEI people that they're supposed to check for ID.

208 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:09:40pm

re: #202 wrenchwench

All I did was feel & express some justified skepticism about the actual effect this would have. Observers that can't interfere. That has got to be a tiny effect if any. Like vote fraud, which happens but rarely and in small numbers. Look at this link.
[Link: gab.wi.gov...]

In part
Remember:
At the Polling Place, an Election Observer must:
• The chief election inspector is
in charge of the polling place. All
inquiries should be made of the chief
election inspector.
• Challenges to voters must be filed with
the chief election inspector. Follow
the process outlined by Wisconsin
Administrative Rule GAB Chapter 9.

209 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:12:02pm

re: #207 Obdicut

No, we don't, since they may challenge legitimacy. And they also are supposed to, if they believe there is a problem, tell the CEI person of the problem. So this will result in poll observers telling CEI people that they're supposed to check for ID.

I don't think so. The CEI will know better. They have the gov issued rules.

210 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:13:01pm

re: #203 Daniel Ballard

Well now we know the observers may not interfere. Back to the far more substantive issue of enough polls and polling places. And implementing HAVA.

Um...if you read the document ThinkProgress cited, it provides the example of how an observer can issue a challenge. As does the national document I cited.

If you see a problem:

Bring it to the attention of the CEI
If the CEI does not resolve it quickly, call the Command Center

You can also use the Legal Hotline App

So if the observer is given a list of false "problems" then they're going to issues challenges for invalid reasons. Since they're the "authorities" on how the vote is supposed to occur, bad information from the electors can wreak havoc.

In the US it's not as simple as "the observer is completely passive during the vote." That was a very broad gloss by me...but there's a reason a reason that I included both an international and national document. You're extrapolating way too much meaning into a phrase I used to summarize a very large body of information, and apparently didn't read the primary material from TP or my supporting materials...which I was kind of taking as a given in my response.

211 Obdicut  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:19:40pm

re: #209 Daniel Ballard

I don't think so. The CEI will know better. They have the gov issued rules.

I'm glad you're totally sanguine about that. I have no clue why you are. You know, for example, how often police-- who also are expected to know the law-- enforce non-existent standards against being photographed, or continue to enforce laws that have been ruled illegal.

212 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:21:43pm

re: #208 Daniel Ballard

All I did was feel & express some justified skepticism about the actual effect this would have. Observers that can't interfere. That has got to be a tiny effect if any. Like vote fraud, which happens but rarely and in small numbers. Look at this link.
[Link: gab.wi.gov...]

In part
Remember:
At the Polling Place, an Election Observer must:
• The chief election inspector is
in charge of the polling place. All
inquiries should be made of the chief
election inspector.
• Challenges to voters must be filed with
the chief election inspector. Follow
the process outlined by Wisconsin
Administrative Rule GAB Chapter 9.

It's like I tell people about wearing a bike helmet. It's not because of the likelihood that you'll be in a crash, it's because of how serious it could be if it did happen. It's not because I think every person trained with this misinformation is going to use it to disenfranchise a voter, it's because of how serious it is if there's even one.

This is just Wisconsin you're talking about. What about Arizona, New Mexico, California, Texas, and all the other places this kind of disinformation is being put in the hands of Republican volunteers?

And what about the fact that it's not you that is going to be challenged? It's going to be someone with more melanin. Try to look at things from another point of view. It's called empathy.

213 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:24:45pm

re: #209 Daniel Ballard

I don't think so. The CEI will know better. They have the gov issued rules.

It still doesn't make training an election monitor to challenge votes for invalid reasons okay.

'yeah these people have the wrong information but the system will self correct' is a weak justification.

214 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:26:32pm

Last post on this then moving on...

Checks and balances are in place to minimize the threat. If they don't apply the whole election is shit short of a landslide.

[Link: elections.state.wi.us...]

If any observer engages in any loud, boisterous, or otherwise disruptive behavior that, in the opinion of the board of absentee ballot canvassers, threatens the orderly conduct of the count, the board of absentee ballot canvassers shall issue a warning under s. GAB 4.01(9) and, if the observer does not cease the offending conduct, order the observer’s removal under s. GAB 4.01(10).

215 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:39:36pm

re: #214 Daniel Ballard

Last post on this then moving on...

Checks and balances are in place to minimize the threat. If they don't apply the whole election is shit short of a landslide.

[Link: elections.state.wi.us...]

If any observer engages in any loud, boisterous, or otherwise disruptive behavior that, in the opinion of the board of absentee ballot canvassers, threatens the orderly conduct of the count, the board of absentee ballot canvassers shall issue a warning under s. GAB 4.01(9) and, if the observer does not cease the offending conduct, order the observer’s removal under s. GAB 4.01(10).

Would you prefer an unexplained downding, or a response that might have a curse word in it?

216 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:42:55pm

Or both?

217 lostlakehiker  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 2:50:31pm

Christie is one of our best. As to the "base", if it can't find something to like about Christie, it's off in Christine O'Donnell land.

When the other side gets something right, the decent thing to do is to applaud. We are, ultimately, all in this together. It is unseemly to rejoice when the other party drops the ball, and unseemly to mutter and grumble when it "nails it". A football player who throws his helmet on the ground when a rival player on his own team scores a touchdown is a disgrace. Same here.

Kudos to Obama for the response to Sandy, and to Christie for giving due credit.

218 Ming  Tue, Oct 30, 2012 9:19:00pm

re: #23 Kragar

Governor Christie must seem very puzzling to the people at Fox "News". A politician who's actually interested in governing? A politician who has something on his mind other than horse-race politics? That does not compute.


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