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1 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 7:54:31pm
2 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 7:55:49pm

Ah this is in Prince William, County. Neat. I feel really good about Obama's chances here in the Old Dominion.

3 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 7:57:14pm

Obama sounds very hoarse.

4 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 7:58:21pm

Don't boo! Ya gotta vote!

5 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 7:59:02pm

Mitt's math was as bad back then as it is now. ROFL.

6 Gus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:01:48pm

Why I'm voting for Obama. I trust him the most.

7 Four More Tears  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:02:08pm

Crikey, just call the man a liar and be done with it!

8 Majacita  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:02:26pm

re: #6 Gus

Me too

9 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:02:46pm

My favorite line was "revenge, like dog, is a dish best served cold".

10 justaminute  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:07:01pm

All I can tell you I'm a beneficiary of the Affordable Care Act. Self-employed woman with MS that was being driven poor by rate increases. Thanks to the ACA insurance driven down from $1,575 to $525 a month and still received a check from insurance company this summer for premium not meeting the new quotas set out by the ACA.

President Obama and the Dems built that!

11 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:09:23pm

re: #10 justaminute

All I can tell you I'm a beneficiary of the Affordable Care Act. Self-employed woman with MS that was being driven poor by rate increases. Thanks to the ACA insurance driven down from $1,575 to $525 a month and still received a check from insurance company this summer for premium not meeting the new quotas set out by the ACA.

President Obama and the Dems built that!

Awesome! Mitt Romney would tell you to get your husband to buy a dancing horse to treat your MS like he did for his wife.

12 Stanghazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:09:56pm

re: #10 justaminute

Missed you around here lately. Cheers and keep well.

13 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:10:03pm

NRO headline:

Even After Sandy, Race in a Virtual Tie

Ok, let's see what the lexicon says about "virtual":

almost or nearly as described, but not completely or according to strict definition : the virtual absence of border controls.
Computing not physically existing as such but made by software to appear to do so : a virtual computer. See also virtual reality .
Physics denoting particles or interactions with extremely short lifetimes and (owing to the uncertainty principle) indefinitely great energies, postulated as intermediates in some processes.

Yeah, I'd say Obama and Romney are in a "virtual tie".

The substance of the article - well, there isn't really any, which isn't surprising. One could almost call it a "virtual article".

14 Majacita  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:11:28pm

Man, can he deliver a speech. My son has health insurance because of Obama. My brothers have jobs because of Obama. And my oldest son is not in Iraq because of Obama. My son's best friend has a chance to get married someday because of Obama. I don't know anyone who will be better off under Romney....but I know many people who plan to vote for him. I don't understand it.

15 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:13:29pm

Wow, he's really on tonight.

16 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:14:03pm

re: #13 freetoken

The substance of the article - well, there isn't really any, which isn't surprising. One could almost call it a "virtual article".

It's like the dummy text they use to do layouts, except an actual human being wrote it.

17 Majacita  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:14:37pm

I watched him this morning give the same speech and it's just as good this time.

18 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:14:42pm

re: #14 Majacita

I don't know anyone who will be better off under Romney....but I know many people who plan to vote for him. I don't understand it.

Because black Muslim Jimmy Carter, that's why.

///

19 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:15:00pm

Early Voting Polls Closed With Record Number of Voters

Voters in Cook County continue to break records for early voting, even if it's last minute early voting.

On the last day of Grace Period Registration, the line streched out the door of 69 W. Washington, around the building and down Dearborn Street to Madison Street.

Earlier on Saturday, Chicago voters were said to be on pace to cast well over 28,000 ballots in Saturday early voting, according to election board spokesman Jim Allen. By 7 p.m., the board was at 30,004 and still counting.

[...]

Hey, it's Cook county. Waiting for someone to chime in with the "vote early, vote often" talking point.

20 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:15:19pm

His voice sounds really painful.

21 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:15:28pm

re: #16 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

It's like the dummy text they use to do layouts, except an actual human being wrote it.

As opposed to a virtual human.

22 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:15:52pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

Wow, he's really on tonight.

But on the other hand, he did say the word "revenge". Verdict: too close to call.

23 Gus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:16:15pm

re: #20 Sheila Broflovski

His voice sounds really painful.

I heard this speech three times today. This last one? He hit it out of the park.

24 justaminute  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:16:38pm

re: #12 Page 3 in the Binder of Women

Missed being here to. Spent my time trying to convince Okies on a little OK board that Republicans are not the little guys friend. You guys are always on the right track. Their not. Staying on it until the election. After that, I'm coming back. It was a rough slog but you know they can't defend Romney, their just angry now.

25 Majacita  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:18:23pm

I live in a red state and have a murder trial in a week. I wish to God I could do more for this election.

26 calochortus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:19:39pm

re: #25 Majacita

I live in a red state and have a murder trial in a week. I wish to God I could do more for this election.

I trust you aren't the defendant?

27 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:19:41pm

What amuses me is the spin that Republican turnout is going to be out an incredible high while Democratic turnout will be an equally incredible low. Wishful thinking if you ask me. And I do think there's a possibility that Obama's support could be under-polled.

28 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:20:22pm

re: #25 Majacita

I live in a red state and have a murder trial in a week. I wish to God I could do more for this election.

Who'd you kill?

29 calochortus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:21:09pm

re: #28 b_sharp

Who'd you kill?

Now, now. Innocent until proven guilty....

30 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:21:48pm

Listening to Jon and Vangelis.

31 Majacita  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:23:04pm

re: #26 calochortus

No, defense attorney. The case will probably plead out, but I have to be ready. And I am writing cross examinations on witnesses while following the blog.

32 AntonSirius  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:23:20pm

re: #30 b_sharp

Listening to Jon and Vangelis.

Between the ey-ey-eyes!

33 sagehen  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:24:31pm

re: #29 calochortus

Now, now. Innocent until proven guilty....

I'm sure whoever it was had it coming. Isn't "he needed killing" grounds for acquittal in some states?

34 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:24:35pm

Fifth rally of the day for POTUS.

35 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:25:08pm

re: #27 HappyWarrior

What amuses me is the spin that Republican turnout is going to be out an incredible high while Democratic turnout will be an equally incredible low. Wishful thinking if you ask me. And I do think there's a possibility that Obama's support could be under-polled.

The thing about voting is that it's totally binary, either you do it or you don't, doesn't matter how enthusiastic you are. Likely voter models are important, but the way some pollsters construct them is intrinsically flawed.

Gallup's model assumes that if this is your first election, or if you've moved to a new precinct and don't know where your polling location is that you're aren't going to vote. Those people never make it into Gallup's likely voter model, even if they tell Gallup that they've already voted via absentee ballot.

36 sagehen  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:25:09pm

REMINDER: Louie CK is hosting SNL tonight.

37 Gus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:25:13pm

LOL C-Span. Always nuts.

38 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:25:34pm

This really does feel like everything I've read about the 1948 election. No disrespect to Thomas Dewey who I think would have been a good president but this really does feel that way.

39 calochortus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:25:35pm

re: #33 sagehen

I'm sure whoever it was had it coming. Isn't "he needed killing" grounds for acquittal in some states?

Oh, I hope not.

40 Majacita  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:26:24pm

re: #33 sagehen

The needed killing defense is the most popular one in our courthouse....I live in a red state after all.

41 danhenry1  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:26:49pm

Bill's Barbeque didn't fail because Of Obama's policies, as Romney asserts, check out the Richmond Times-Dispatch.
[Link: www2.timesdispatch.com...]
This just might get the 'Old Dominion', back in the blue where it belongs.

42 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:26:58pm

re: #37 Gus

LOL C-Span. Always nuts.

Benghazi?

43 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:27:21pm

re: #35 goddamnedfrank

The thing about voting is that it's totally binary, either you do it or you don't, doesn't matter how enthusiastic you are. Likely voter models are important, but the way some pollsters construct them is intrinsically flawed.

Gallup's model assumes that if this is your first election, or if you've moved to a new precinct and don't know where your polling location is that you're aren't going to vote. Those people never make it into Gallup's likely voter model, even if they tell Gallup that they've already voted via absentee ballot.

Didn't know that about Gallup. I remember reading that one of the flaws in the 1936 polling that actually had FDR losing to Landon was that only people with telephones were polled.

44 Gus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:27:51pm

Wow. Crazy central on C-Span.

45 Gus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:28:12pm

re: #42 jaunte

Benghazi?

Lots of stoned people.

46 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:28:47pm

re: #41 danhenry1

Bill's Barbeque didn't fail because Of Obama's policies, as Romney asserts, check out the Richmond Times-Dispatch.
[Link: www2.timesdispatch.com...]
This just might get the 'Old Dominion', back in the blue where it belongs.

I guess this is the Virginia version of Chrysler's moving jeep production to China. Don't fuck with our BBQ, Romney.

47 AntonSirius  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:29:46pm

I think Fallows is right. The dumb Republicans may just be deluding themselves the way many Dems deluded themselves in '04* (and for the same reason - they can't believe America would re-elect the guy they hate), but the smart Republicans are laying the groundwork for de-legitimizing Obama's second term.

* - Full disclosure: I suffered from that delusion in '04.

48 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:31:13pm

re: #41 danhenry1

I've seen a lot of complaining about decent employee health care coverage coming from the restaurant industry. Rethinking their business model might be better for society, and maybe not so profitable for the owners.

49 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:32:18pm

re: #47 AntonSirius

I think Fallows is right. The dumb Republicans may just be deluding themselves the way many Dems deluded themselves in '04* (and for the same reason - they can't believe America would re-elect the guy they hate), but the smart Republicans are laying the groundwork for de-legitimizing Obama's second term.

* - Full disclosure: I suffered from that delusion in '04.

Yeah, I know exactly what you are saying. I thought there was no way in hell that people would vote to re-elect Bush but I didn't give up enough credit to how Kerry was perceived by non-Democratic partisans, Bush's ground operation, etc.

50 justaminute  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:33:04pm

The Open Carry law took affect in Oklahoma 11/1. We posted 'No Open Carry of Guns' signs in our restaurant. No complaints but quite a few 'Thank You' from customers. I was expecting the opposite. See, Okies can surprise you!

51 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:33:38pm

Antoine Dufour playing now.

52 sagehen  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:35:12pm

re: #43 HappyWarrior

Didn't know that about Gallup. I remember reading that one of the flaws in the 1936 polling that actually had FDR losing to Landon was that only people with telephones were polled.

They're still only polling people who, as Seth Myers put it, "would answer a call on their landline from a blocked number".

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:35:51pm

re: #9 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

My favorite line was "revenge, like dog, is a dish best served cold".

Obama said that?

54 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:36:18pm

Amazing how music can shape our emotions.

55 Stanghazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:37:58pm

re: #41 danhenry1

Bill's Barbeque didn't fail because Of Obama's policies, as Romney asserts, check out the Richmond Times-Dispatch.
[Link: www2.timesdispatch.com...]
This just might get the 'Old Dominion', back in the blue where it belongs.

Sigh. Just another lie on the back of some misinformed and disgruntled people.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:37:58pm

re: #54 b_sharp

Amazing how music can shape our emotions.

Is it not strange that sheeps' guts should hale souls out of men's bodies?

57 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:38:03pm

Harmonics on an acoustic guitar for the win.

58 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:40:48pm

You know, there is more than one lizard here I'd like to meet in person and quaff an ale with.

59 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:41:12pm

re: #47 AntonSirius

...the smart Republicans are laying the groundwork for de-legitimizing Obama's second term.

Can we use a different adjective? Calling people willing to burn the country down to kneecap the other party "smart" sticks in my craw.

60 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:42:25pm

re: #53 SanFranciscoZionist

Obama said that?

The one who lives in my head and spends all his time tweaking Republicans over their silly shibboleths did.

61 dragonath  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:44:03pm

Oh, damn.

Pennsylvania Report Left Out Data on Poisons in Water Near Gas Site

A not so well known episode in the current fracking exploration is how industry groups picked up funding on Pennsylvania's satellite topography initiative (LIDAR) when the state funding ran out.

Yeah, that science is okay.

62 calochortus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:45:28pm

re: #54 b_sharp

Amazing how music can shape our emotions.

In Beethoven's Anvil William Benzon suggests that the purpose of music is to 'harmonize' (no pun intended) functions of different parts of the brain, and to bring the the brains of people in one's group together. Interesting thesis.

63 AntonSirius  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:49:08pm

re: #59 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

Can we use a different adjective? Calling people willing to burn the country down to kneecap the other party "smart" sticks in my craw.

Cunning? Sly? Less dumb?

64 Stanghazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:49:12pm

Speaking of music. Jon Bon Jovi's acoustic "Living on a Prayer" last night was epic. He and Billy Joel impressed me mucho with their 20 years later sounding great.

65 Mich-again  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:51:27pm

re: #62 calochortus

In Beethoven's Anvil William Benzon suggests that the purpose of music is to 'harmonize' (no pun intended) functions of different parts of the brain, and to bring the the brains of people in one's group together. Interesting thesis.

I think the purpose of music is to get people to dance. 5-6-7-8...

66 calochortus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:52:19pm

re: #65 Mich-again

I think the purpose of music is to get people to dance. 5-6-7-8...

That's part of it too.

67 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:53:00pm

re: #64 Page 3 in the Binder of Women

Speaking of music. Jon Bon Jovi's acoustic "Living on a Prayer" last night was epic. He and Billy Joel impressed me mucho with their 20 years later sounding great.

Talent never dies.

68 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:56:02pm

I see that NRO tries some inverted back-flip slut-shaming:

Katy Perry: I’m a Sex Object and I Endorse This Ad

The Obama campaign has repeatedly appealed to women as if the feminist movement never happened – that is, as a monolith who can’t get sex and reproduction off the brain. Sandra Fluke and Lena Dunham have relayed the President’s message quite clearly: women should and do decide whom to vote for based on sex, birth control, and abortion. [...]

Singer and songwriter Katy Perry is the latest lady to objectify herself for the benefit of the President’s campaign. At a campaign rally in Milwaukee earlier tonight, she sported a skin-tight dress featuring the Obama campaign slogan. Her message: I’m a sex object and I endorse this ad. Backward!

I wonder why anyone takes NRO or those who are published through that outlet seriously.

69 Stanghazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:56:32pm

re: #67 b_sharp

Talent never dies.

But voices do. ie Steven Tyler. he sucked. Im going to re-watch the Billy Joel Lights on Broadway. He is someone worth the $$$ to see (now I know)

70 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 8:56:51pm

re: #68 freetoken

I see that NRO tries some inverted back-flip slut-shaming:

Katy Perry: I’m a Sex Object and I Endorse This Ad

I wonder why anyone takes NRO or those who are published through that outlet seriously.

Whatever. I don't take anything seriously that comes from that rag that employs white nationalists. Fuck the NRO.

71 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:00:44pm

re: #62 calochortus

I think trying to figure out what music is "for" is missing the point. Music may have certain ancillary benefits and effects, but that's not what music is "for". Music isn't a means, music is an end.

72 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:01:04pm

re: #69 Page 3 in the Binder of Women

But voices do. ie Steven Tyler. he sucked. Im going to re-watch the Billy Joel Lights on Broadway. He is someone worth the $$$ to see (now I know)

Stevo never had any talent.

73 Stanghazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:01:37pm
74 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:04:41pm

re: #71 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

I think trying to figure out what music is "for" is missing the point. Music may have certain ancillary benefits and effects, but that's not what music is "for".

No, music has a purpose, that's why we keep producing it.
Figuring out if there is a evolutionary purpose for it doesn't diminish its value, it may even augment our enjoyment.

75 calochortus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:04:54pm

re: #71 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

That's fine, but why music is so universally appealing (even if not everyone has the same taste) is an interesting question.

76 Stanghazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:05:43pm

re: #73 Page 3 in the Binder of Women

[Embedded content]

epic.

Joel explained that he wrote the song while living in Los Angeles in 1975, when New York City was on the verge of default. Joel stated that people in Los Angeles, including former New Yorkers, were deriding New York for its troubles. Joel says he thought, "If New York's going to go down the tubes, I'm going to go back to New York

77 dragonath  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:10:11pm
78 calochortus  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:13:01pm

I guess it's time to set the clocks back before bed. Good night all.

79 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:13:16pm

Meanwhile, here in California we have a couple of Propositions that raises taxes, under the rubric of helping schools. It's all very confusing, and I consider it nothing but an abrogation of responsibility by the Assembly that our budget issues can no longer be settled by legislation.

Local NBC affiliate tries to untangle competing propositions 30 and 38:

Prop. 30 and 38 Tax Hikes Go Head to Head: San Diego Explained

IMO both propositions are failures, as the first uses regressive sales tax increases, while the latter raises taxes even on those lower in the salary scale.

80 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:17:09pm

File this one under "WTF?":

US Airman Allegedly Assaults Japanese Boy

A U.S. airman is suspected of assaulting a young boy Friday on the southern Japanese island of Okinawa, authorities said. The incident comes just two weeks after a curfew was imposed on all 52,000 U.S. troops in Japan over the arrest of two Navy sailors for allegedly raping a local woman.

Authorities on Okinawa said the 24-year-old airman was suspected of entering an apartment and punching the 13-year-old boy before breaking a TV set and trying to escape through a third-floor window. The airman — whose name has not been released — fell and was taken to a military hospital.

[...]

81 BeenHereAwhile  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:17:10pm

re: #66 calochortus

That's part of it too.

Music is tempered mathematics.

82 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:17:17pm
83 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:18:12pm

re: #74 b_sharp

re: #75 calochortus

I think you need to distinguish between a "reason" and a "purpose". Music certainly seems to meet a fundamental human need, fulfill a universal desire, and may very well "'harmonize' functions of different parts of the brain", but to say that is music's "purpose" implies a higher degree of teleology than is warranted, as though music were designed with that end expressly in mind.

84 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:21:53pm
85 sagehen  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:23:27pm

re: #74 b_sharp

No, music has a purpose, that's why we keep producing it.
Figuring out if there is a evolutionary purpose for it doesn't diminish its value, it may even augment our enjoyment.

Knowing the difference between bird calls gave hunter/gatherers useful information; the rhythm of a herd of gazelles running from a lion must be somewhat different than the rhythm of a herd of elephants running from a fire...

86 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:23:40pm
87 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:23:42pm

Major media outlets still pushing the horse race:


Obama and Romney tied three days before election

U.S. President Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney remain essentially tied in the race for the White House with razor thin margins in four key swing states, according to a Reuters/Ipsos daily tracking poll released on Saturday.

"Essentially". I wonder if they really meant "virtually"?

88 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:24:30pm

re: #83 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

re: #75 calochortus

I think you need to distinguish between a "reason" and a "purpose". Music certainly seems to meet a fundamental human need, fulfill a universal desire, and may very well "'harmonize' functions of different parts of the brain", but to say that is music's "purpose" implies a higher degree of teleology than is warranted, as though music were designed with that end expressly in mind.

I think that inference is yours alone.

89 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:25:35pm

re: #82 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Who writes up worksheet like that?

90 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:26:43pm

re: #89 b_sharp

Seems strangely intrusive. Why should a teacher care what students play with on their own time?

91 Joanne  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:26:50pm

re: #68 freetoken

That's how the old folks feel. They think bikini's are like Playboy, which is Satan. Hustler? Worse than Satan. Women should be like 50s Ozzie and Harriet and June Cleaver. This is the GOP.

92 KronoGhazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:27:56pm

re: #86 Charles Johnson

Iran Suspends Uranium Enrichment.

Awaiting John Bolton's interpretation of how this is an act of aggression.

93 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:28:13pm

re: #85 sagehen

Knowing the difference between bird calls gave hunter/gatherers useful information; the rhythm of a herd of gazelles running from a lion must be somewhat different than the rhythm of a herd of elephants running from a fire...

Pounding on logs while sitting around a campfire united the group.

94 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:30:01pm

re: #85 sagehen

Knowing the difference between bird calls gave hunter/gatherers useful information; the rhythm of a herd of gazelles running from a lion must be somewhat different than the rhythm of a herd of elephants running from a fire...

And that's all well and good if you're trying to figure out how music started, but if you try to explain the existence of Mozart or Merzbow as a way to memorize game sounds, I'm going to look at you funny. Music is a very complex phenomena. A simple explanation for its power and universality seem to me exceedingly unlikely.

95 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:30:52pm

re: #90 jaunte

Seems strangely intrusive. Why should a teacher care what students play with on their own time?

Force well defined gender roles so traditional families can be saved from us pesky liberals.

96 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:33:21pm

re: #95 b_sharp

I followed his twitter feed just to see what happens in the parent-teacher conference.

97 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:34:13pm

Do horses "sprint"? I know they "gallop" at maximum speed. Anyway, the race is on:

Obama, Romney sprint to tight finish in a nation deeply divided

Against the backdrop of a sharply polarized nation, the long and mean-spirited 2012 presidential contest is barreling toward the finish with the outcome still in doubt.

Yes, we know, "prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" as someone famous once said.

Even though their own graphic:
[Link: graphics.latimes.com...]
shows Obama leading in every so called "toss up" state.

98 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:35:42pm

It takes a special kind of teacher to give out an entirely subjective assignment, and then tell kids they did it "wrong" when they don't agree with them. It's like asking what their favorite color is, and then saying "I'm sorry, Billy, the correct answer is blue".

99 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:36:09pm

re: #94 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

And that's all well and good if you're trying to figure out how music started, but if you try to explain the existence of Mozart or Merzbow as a way to memorize game sounds, I'm going to look at you funny. Music is a very complex phenomena. A simple explanation for its power and universality seem to me exceedingly unlikely.

Everything evolves and is built upon the re: #94 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

And that's all well and good if you're trying to figure out how music started, but if you try to explain the existence of Mozart or Merzbow as a way to memorize game sounds, I'm going to look at you funny. Music is a very complex phenomena. A simple explanation for its power and universality seem to me exceedingly unlikely.

We`re going all reductionist on you aren't we?

100 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:36:43pm

Manhattan:
[Link: nymag.com...]

101 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:37:48pm

Okay, what's with this frequent right wing claim I see about polls that they're using a 2008 model. Aren't these all polls of likely voters as opposed to merely registered voters?

102 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:38:12pm

CNN doesn't even bother to put in "virtually" or "essentially":

Poll: Obama, Romney tied nationally

TIED!!

103 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:39:00pm

re: #99 b_sharp

We`re going all reductionist on you aren't we?

A little reduction now and then is good for me. Keeps me from getting a swelled head.

104 Targetpractice  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:39:20pm

re: #102 freetoken

CNN doesn't even bother to put in "virtually" or "essentially":

Poll: Obama, Romney tied nationally

TIED!!

"Race tied! Too close to call! Be sure to watch up election night to get up to the minute punditry on just how close the race really is!"

105 KronoGhazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:41:13pm

It won't be close. Will miss the hand wringing mea culpa about what went wrong... not.

106 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:41:36pm

re: #104 Targetpractice

The reason the media doesn't complain seriously about the Citizens United ruling is that by and large the media are the consumers of the billions of dollars being spent by the candidates.

107 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:42:59pm

re: #98 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

It takes a special kind of teacher to give out an entirely subjective assignment, and then tell kids they did it "wrong" when they don't agree with them.

One of my daughters had a first grade teacher who assigned the kids to create a photo-essay of their early lives. Our kids were adopted late, age 3 and 4, and they had no baby photos, so we suggested she draw her pictures. After she turned in her drawings and short bio, the teacher told her she would get a bad grade unless she completed the assignment with photos. She suggested using baby pictures of strangers cut out of magazines.

108 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:43:12pm

Show me a major "newspaper" or television news service that runs a headline like "Media Companies Rake in Billions Pushing Horse Race".

You won't find it.

109 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:43:30pm

re: #99 b_sharp

Everything evolves and is built upon the re: #94 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

We`re going all reductionist on you aren't we?

Well isn't that just a mess.

110 Targetpractice  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:43:59pm

re: #108 freetoken

Show me a major "newspaper" or television news service that runs a headline like "Media Companies Rake in Billions Pushing Horse Race".

You won't find it.

Precisely. Whoever wins Tuesday, they've already made millions on ad time alone.

111 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:44:45pm

re: #110 Targetpractice

The campaigning is the big source of revenue this year, scheduled between the Olympics and the next Super Bowl.

112 Stanghazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:46:06pm

re: #107 jaunte

One of my daughters had a first grade teacher who assigned the kids to create a photo-essay of their early lives. Our kids were adopted, age 3 and 4, and they had no baby photos, so we suggested she draw her pictures. After she turned in her drawings and short bio, the teacher told her she would get a bad grade unless she completed the assignment with photos. She suggested using baby pictures of strangers cut out of magazines.

Oh my. How sheltered this teacher.

113 KronoGhazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:46:13pm

Who are these Citizens who are united exactly?

Should be called Dollars United.

114 jaunte  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:47:32pm

re: #112 Page 3 in the Binder of Women

It was amazingly tone deaf. She was Teacher of the Year in the school that year, too.

115 SteelGHAZI  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:47:32pm

re: #113 Kronocide

Who are these Citizens who are united exactly?

Should be called Dollars United.

THIS.

116 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:48:39pm

re: #113 Kronocide

Who are these Citizens who are united exactly?

Should be called Dollars United.

Dollars are people too, my friend!

117 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:48:53pm

Now I'm listening to Soundgarden.

118 Targetpractice  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:48:59pm

Heh, Reid calls Romney's promises of bipartisanship "laughable" and already I'm hearing wingnuts whining that Reid's promising to be "obstructionist."

119 Mich-again  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:49:41pm

re: #113 Kronocide

Who are these Citizens who are united exactly?

Should be called Dollars United.

If I get it right, you can only donate up to $2,000 to support candidate A but you can donate an unlimited amount of money to oppose candidate B.

120 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:50:14pm

re: #118 Targetpractice

Heh, Reid calls Romney's promises of bipartisanship "laughable" and already I'm hearing wingnuts whining that Reid's promising to be "obstructionist."

Get back to me when a group of Congressional Democrats does what Ryan, Cantor, and the others did. Or if Reid promises that his sole goal is to make Romney a one termer. Fucking Republicans have no right to complain at all about partsianship after these past four years.

121 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:50:17pm

re: #117 b_sharp

Now I'm listening to Soundgarden.

The purpose of music is to sell flannel shirts!

122 prairiefire  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:53:20pm

re: #107 jaunte

I'm happy to report that there has been a shift in the elementary grades to recognize a students "voice" as a criteria in writing. I think this has helped educators to respond to individual students in a better manner.

123 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:54:16pm

re: #59 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

Can we use a different adjective? Calling people willing to burn the country down to kneecap the other party "smart" sticks in my craw.

How about "diabolical"?

124 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:55:23pm

Love Spoonman

125 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 9:59:49pm

re: #97 freetoken

Do horses "sprint"? I know they "gallop" at maximum speed. Anyway, the race is on:

Obama, Romney sprint to tight finish in a nation deeply divided

Yes, we know, "prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" as someone famous once said.

Even though their own graphic:
[Link: graphics.latimes.com...]
shows Obama leading in every so called "toss up" state.

Today Nate Silver said that unless the polls are statistically biased (not necessarily deliberately, but because they are all making the same fundamental mistake in the makeup of the electorate), the President will be re-elected.

126 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:00:47pm

re: #122 prairiefire

I'm happy to report that there has been a shift in the elementary grades to recognize a students "voice" as a criteria in writing. I think this has helped educators to respond to individual students in a better manner.

The amount of time spent on a student should be directly proportional to that students grades. Why spend hard earned money on slower kids?

Even the right would argue against that, but their philosophy elsewhere is exactly that.

127 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:02:04pm

re: #125 aagcobb

Today Nate Silver said that unless the polls are statistically biased (not necessarily deliberately, but because they are all making the same fundamental mistake in the makeup of the electorate), the President will be re-elected.

Unskew me a bias, dude.

128 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:03:21pm

re: #101 HappyWarrior

Okay, what's with this frequent right wing claim I see about polls that they're using a 2008 model. Aren't these all polls of likely voters as opposed to merely registered voters?

Its bogus. The claim the pollsters are overcounting Democrats when in fact party ID is just one of the things people are telling them. Only Rasmussen tries to achieve a balance of what he thinks the party ID breakdown of the electorate will be, which is why in many swing states only Rasmussen shows Romney ahead or tied.

129 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:03:26pm

Black hole sun up next.

130 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:03:29pm

re: #125 aagcobb

Today Nate Silver said that unless the polls are statistically biased (not necessarily deliberately, but because they are all making the same fundamental mistake in the makeup of the electorate), the President will be re-elected.

Yeah I read that. I just don't see how that would be the case. I could be wrong but I think if anything there's an equal if not slightly greater possibility that Obama's support could be underrepresented some.

131 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:04:18pm

re: #128 aagcobb

Its bogus. The claim the pollsters are overcounting Democrats when in fact party ID is just one of the things people are telling them. Only Rasmussen tries to achieve a balance of what he thinks the party ID breakdown of the electorate will be, which is why in many swing states only Rasmussen shows Romney ahead or tied.

Gotcha figured it was a bogus claim.

132 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:05:37pm

re: #107 jaunte

One of my daughters had a first grade teacher who assigned the kids to create a photo-essay of their early lives. Our kids were adopted late, age 3 and 4, and they had no baby photos, so we suggested she draw her pictures. After she turned in her drawings and short bio, the teacher told her she would get a bad grade unless she completed the assignment with photos. She suggested using baby pictures of strangers cut out of magazines.

As the parent of two adopted children, I find that bizarre and offensive.

133 prairiefire  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:08:13pm

re: #126 b_sharp

Oh, gosh, special needs kids are screened by kindergarten in my school district. Speech impediment, reading disabilities, they try to catch everything early, now.

134 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:08:36pm

What should I listen to next, Pat Metheny or Tom Waits.

135 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:11:21pm

re: #130 HappyWarrior

Yeah I read that. I just don't see how that would be the case. I could be wrong but I think if anything there's an equal if not slightly greater possibility that Obama's support could be underrepresented some.

Sometimes the polls are incorrect in one direction or the other. Basically Romney's only hope is that the polls are wrong because democrats are so uninspired compared to 2008 that their turnout is down while Obama hatred inspires record turnout of white male voters. What right-wing analysts miss is the degree to which GOP misogyny, homophobia and racism will inspire the President's electorate to vote, and that outside the GOP base people like the President and recognize the economy is improving.

136 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:12:05pm

re: #133 prairiefire

Oh, gosh, special needs kids are screened by kindergarten in my school district. Speech impediment, reading disabilities, they try to catch everything early, now.

Exactly as it should be.
But not how the 'I've got mine' crowd wants things.

137 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:13:57pm

re: #135 aagcobb

Sometimes the polls are incorrect in one direction or the other. Basically Romney's only hope is that the polls are wrong because democrats are so uninspired compared to 2008 that their turnout is down while Obama hatred inspires record turnout of white male voters. What right-wing analysts miss is the degree to which GOP misogyny, homophobia and racism will inspire the President's electorate to vote, and that outside the GOP base people like the President and recognize the economy is improving.

Gotcha. Seems like a lot of wishful thinking on their part.

138 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:14:11pm

Did Trump ever take Colbert's offer?

139 Targetpractice  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:14:54pm

re: #135 aagcobb

Sometimes the polls are incorrect in one direction or the other. Basically Romney's only hope is that the polls are wrong because democrats are so uninspired compared to 2008 that their turnout is down while Obama hatred inspires record turnout of white male voters. What right-wing analysts miss is the degree to which GOP misogyny, homophobia and racism will inspire the President's electorate to vote, and that outside the GOP base people like the President and recognize the economy is improving.

Pretty much. At this point, the Romney campaign can only pray that two things work in their favor: Poll sampling errors and voter turnout. If it's sampling errors, then it's possible that Romney holds enough support in one or more swing states to win this thing. If voter turnout, again, he might be able to slip by. But if both are in Obama's favor, then this all may be over before midnight.

140 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:15:47pm

re: #125 aagcobb

Today Nate Silver said that unless the polls are statistically biased (not necessarily deliberately, but because they are all making the same fundamental mistake in the makeup of the electorate), the President will be re-elected.

Yeah, but Silver's just another who has fallen under the spell of the Marxist Muslim, wearer of the One Ring through whom he'll bring all into the darkness.

141 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:19:26pm

Just seems to me that Romney needs a lot to not only go right for him but wrong for Obama. And honestly I just don't see that. Maybe it's a bias on my part but what Silver is saying makes a lot more sense to me than those who seem to think Romney will win.

142 Joanne  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:20:09pm

re: #107 jaunte

I hope you had a less than friendly chat with that teacher.

143 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:20:30pm

re: #140 freetoken

Yeah, but Silver's just another who has fallen under the spell of the Marxist Muslim, wearer of the One Ring through whom he'll bring all into the darkness.

After the election, I wish Silver would sue the right-wingers who claimed he cooked his books for the President for defamation, though I doubt he will. In reality, Silver created a model before the election season and stuck with it, come what may. He also criticized Gallup for changing their model mid-campaign.

144 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:21:33pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Just seems to me that Romney needs a lot to not only go right for him but wrong for Obama. And honestly I just don't see that. Maybe it's a bias on my part but what Silver is saying makes a lot more sense to me than those who seem to think Romney will win.

You must be part of the reality-based community, which has a well-known liberal bias.

145 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:23:23pm

I can hardly wait for Tuesday night.


"To hear the lamentations of their women."

146 efuseakay  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:23:26pm

re: #124 b_sharp

Love Spoonman

Have a listen to Loud Love... Oldschool SG... :D

147 efuseakay  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:25:09pm

re: #138 b_sharp

Did Trump ever take Colbert's offer?

WHAT'S HE HIDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

148 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:26:35pm

re: #146 efuseakay

Have a listen to Loud Love... Oldschool SG... :D

Just added it.

149 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:27:12pm

re: #145 b_sharp

I can hardly wait for Tuesday night.

"To hear the lamentations of their women."

What is best in life?

150 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:27:40pm

Watching the remarks by the Big Dog that I missed the first time around.

His voice is shot, but Bill Clinton can still give a hell of a speech. Watching his DNC speech made me curse term limits. Watching this one reminds me why I have always been a fan despite his failings.

151 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:30:42pm

re: #149 moderatelyradicalliberal

What is best in life?

[Embedded content]

Of course.

152 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:31:37pm

re: #143 aagcobb

The utter stupidity of the wingnuts is obnoxious but Silver suing someone for defamation would just be a waste of time because he'd have to prove he's been damaged, but in the eyes of most people Silver's image has been enhanced because the majority of people know wingnut idiocy when they see it.

Yes, even the country club Republicans who use the wingnuts as their ground troops, know the difference between real analysis and bullshit.

153 ozbloke  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:32:07pm

re: #64 Page 3 in the Binder of Women

Speaking of music. Jon Bon Jovi's acoustic "Living on a Prayer" last night was epic. He and Billy Joel impressed me mucho with their 20 years later sounding great.

20 years on pffft

What about this 45 years on.

Whiter Shade of Pale.

154 Targetpractice  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:33:07pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Just seems to me that Romney needs a lot to not only go right for him but wrong for Obama. And honestly I just don't see that. Maybe it's a bias on my part but what Silver is saying makes a lot more sense to me than those who seem to think Romney will win.

Ayep, Romney basically has to hope that the polls are not only wrong, but have been so for months. That he's holding leads, even slim ones, that the polls aren't showing. Or that voter turnout reflect '10's turnout rather than '08's.

Really, I've seen Texas Hold'em matches on TV that were closer than this. Silver's odds right now seem like the ones you'd find on TV, watching Romney sweat that he can make his straight on the river without a suit card that would give Obama a flush.

155 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:33:11pm

Silver's gonna get a sweet deal if he's close to being on target. Some network will offer a lot of money for his services I bet.

156 ozbloke  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:33:56pm

re: #153 ozbloke

20 years on pffft

What about this 45 years on.

Whiter Shade of Pale.

[Embedded content]

I have to ask for forgiveness, as it was recorded in 2006, so technically it was 39 tears later...

Epic.

157 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:34:51pm

re: #154 Targetpractice

Ayep, Romney basically has to hope that the polls are not only wrong, but have been so for months. That he's holding leads, even slim ones, that the polls aren't showing. Or that voter turnout reflect '10's turnout rather than '08's.

Really, I've seen Texas Hold'em matches on TV that were closer than this. Silver's odds right now seem like the ones you'd find on TV, watching Romney sweat that he can make his straight on the river without a suit card that would give Obama a flush.

I'm thinking that turnout will be in between 2008 and 2010. Can't see it being as high was it was in 2008 for the Dems but I can't see it being what it was for the Republicans in 2010 either. Dare I quote Nixon here but I think there's a silent majority that supports Obama over Romney.

158 Joanne  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:35:40pm
159 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:36:23pm

re: #153 ozbloke

20 years on pffft

What about this 45 years on.

Whiter Shade of Pale.

[Embedded content]

original version

160 Big Joe Ghazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:38:34pm

re: #153 ozbloke

20 years on pffft

What about this 45 years on.

Whiter Shade of Pale.

[Embedded content]

how about 60 years on.

161 ozbloke  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:40:28pm

re: #159 engineer cat

original version

Oh my...

I bet you love telling kids there is no Santa too.
/ I think I might just hate you now.

What about Stairway to heaven and the theme from Gilligans Island?

162 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:40:58pm

re: #156 ozbloke

I have to ask for forgiveness, as it was recorded in 2006, so technically it was 39 tears later...

Epic.

Now go find Knights in White Satin.
Time for Moody Blues.

163 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:41:44pm

re: #153 ozbloke

20 years on pffft

What about this 45 years on.

Whiter Shade of Pale.

[Embedded content]

way back when this first came out i was a high school student, singing bach and other stuff like that in the parochial school choir and chorus. relative to jimi hendrix and the stones and suchlike, procul harum wasn't very well known. but we could tell the influence of j.s. when we heard it, so me and my best friend thought they were great

we thought we were their only fans

164 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:41:49pm

Skewed polls! Evil math! Nate Silver is of teh debil! Eleventy!

165 Joanne  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:43:58pm
166 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:45:08pm

re: #164 Lidane

Benghazi!

167 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:46:01pm

re: #165 Joanne

[Embedded content]

Some Marxist.

168 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:46:28pm

re: #165 Joanne

Haven't you heard? The Usurper is going to jettison the Constitution and stay for a third term.

169 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:46:44pm

re: #165 Joanne

[Embedded content]

If Obama was a threat, he'd be backed by the military. They have the biggest guns.

170 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:46:58pm

re: #161 ozbloke

Oh my...

I bet you love telling kids there is no Santa too.
/ I think I might just hate you now.

What about Stairway to heaven and the theme from Gilligans Island?

bwahahahaha

171 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:47:07pm

See here:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

172 b_snark  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:48:38pm

re: #163 engineer cat

way back when this first came out i was a high school student, singing bach and other stuff like that in the parochial school choir and chorus. relative to jimi hendrix and the stones and suchlike, procul harum wasn't very well known. but we could tell the influence of j.s. when we heard it, so me and my best friend thought they were great

we thought we were their only fans

Procul Harum were huge up here.

173 ozbloke  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:49:21pm

re: #162 b_sharp

Now go find Knights in White Satin.
Time for Moody Blues.

Any time is a good time for the Moody Blues.

Dear Diary

174 Joanne  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:50:13pm
175 Mattand  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:52:12pm

re: #145 b_sharp

I can hardly wait for Tuesday night.

"To hear the lamentations of their women."

What is the Riddle of Derp?

176 ozbloke  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:52:33pm

re: #163 engineer cat

way back when this first came out i was a high school student, singing bach and other stuff like that in the parochial school choir and chorus. relative to jimi hendrix and the stones and suchlike, procul harum wasn't very well known. but we could tell the influence of j.s. when we heard it, so me and my best friend thought they were great

we thought we were their only fans

I going to rate your JS Bach as True.

When I studied music as a youngster, I only listened/learnt classical as it was a requirement for the AMEB (Australian Music Examinations Board).

I coulda listened more, as I now appreciate it.

177 Joanne  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:55:05pm

Ugh.

178 ozbloke  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:55:23pm

re: #170 engineer cat

bwahahahaha

Works well, play the verse to stairway to heaven on the guitar, and sing the theme from Gilligans Island.

179 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:57:23pm

re: #178 ozbloke

Works well, play the verse to stairway to heaven on the guitar, and sing the theme from Gilligans Island.

huh!

180 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:57:41pm

Did you know that the first movie (/episode) of Lexx is available on Amazon as a FREE digital download?

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

It may be old news, but I just discovered that.

181 ozbloke  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:59:35pm

re: #179 engineer cat

huh!

You should take my advice.
I'm not using it.

Go on, give it a go...

182 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 10:59:38pm

re: #172 b_sharp

Procul Harum were huge up here.

must be all the anglicans

183 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:03:24pm

re: #165 Joanne

[Embedded content]

Obama should be NRA man of the year for all of the guns and ammunition he has sold.

184 ozbloke  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:11:00pm

re: #179 engineer cat

huh!

Here you go.

Stairway to Gilligan's Island

185 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:12:59pm

World History according to Andy Schlafly and Conservapedia...

In November 1980, the first modern conservative was elected president of the United States: Ronald Reagan. President Reagan cut taxes, defeated communism, and had the most original and influential idea of any president in all of American history: the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), or “Star Wars.” This was a plan to use advantaged technology to intercept and destroy, in mid-air, fast-moving missiles that might be launched against the United States.

Reagan’s critics ridiculed SDI as impossible and dangerous. But those criticisms were somewhat contradictory with each other; it was precisely because SDI might be possible that it was so beneficial. The Soviet Union, then led by Mikhail Gorbachev, panicked. Gorbachev met with Reagan at a summit in Reykjavik, Iceland in 1986 in which Gorbachev promised almost anything if Reagan would agree to drop SDI. The media pressure was intense for Reagan to agree. But Reagan stood up for America. He shook his head and he said “no deal.” The next year Reagan made a trip to the Berlin Wall, against the recommendation of his advisers, and declared to the world, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” Sure enough, two years later the Germans did exactly that, and tore down the Berlin Wall built by the communists. Although Reagan and Gorbachev did sign the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty in 1987, which banned missiles with ranges of 300 to 3,400 miles, the historic decision was Reagan’s refusal to sign a treaty at Reykjavik giving up SDI. Communism in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union would soon be vanquished.

Why is it that I can't read this without picturing Andy having to type it one handed?

/

186 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:14:55pm

On yet another topic, the racist right is in a fit that the statehood item on the Puerto Rico ballot might this time actually get a majority (last time the vote came up it was just shy of 47%.)

If the outcome for statehood is above 50% it will be fascinating to watch what happens.

187 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:15:42pm

re: #185 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

World History according to Andy Schlafly and Conservapedia...

Why is it that I can't read this without picturing Andy having to type it one handed?

/

Egads....

188 Majacita  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:16:39pm

That sounds like it was written by someone in fifth grade.

189 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:17:42pm

re: #185 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

World History according to Andy Schlafly and Conservapedia...

Why is it that I can't read this without picturing Andy having to type it one handed?

/

A tendency towards self-flagellation?

190 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:18:49pm

re: #188 Majacita

That sounds like it was written by someone in fifth grade.

In North Korea. All it needs are a few "Dear Leader"s.

191 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:20:39pm

re: #185 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

World History according to Andy Schlafly and Conservapedia...

Why is it that I can't read this without picturing Andy having to type it one handed?

/

SDI was the most original and innovative idea by any American president in history? I'll have what Andy's having because jeez. Even if you supported SDI, to call it that just shows a complete lack of respect for any of Reagan's predecessors or successors but what does one realistically expect from people who act like Reagan is the only good president we've had.

192 gwangung  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:23:00pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

SDI was the most original and innovative idea by any American president in history?
.

I'd be willing to consider the argument if SDI actually, oh, I don't know, worked (not even talking deployment here...).

193 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:23:14pm

re: #185 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

World History according to Andy Schlafly and Conservapedia...

Why is it that I can't read this without picturing Andy having to type it one handed?

/

Why does science work at all?

by Jonathan Sarfati

Many anti-Christians claim that Christianity and science have been enemies for centuries. This is the opposite of the truth. Informed historians of science, including non-Christians, have pointed out that modern science first flourished under a Christian worldview while it was stillborn in other cultures such as ancient Greece, China and Arabia

that's just what aristotle and avicenna said

194 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:25:01pm

re: #188 Majacita

That sounds like it was written by someone in fifth grade.

It might have been. A lot of people do not realize that Andy helps to run a large home schooling group, they provide the curriculum. As part of their coursework they are required to write articles for Conservapedia and Andy grades them based on how closely they have followed his unique version of history and conservatism.

I did a LGF Page on Andy's home schooling scam a while ago...

195 Targetpractice  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:25:06pm

re: #185 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

World History according to Andy Schlafly and Conservapedia...

Why is it that I can't read this without picturing Andy having to type it one handed?

/

SDI, one of the biggest jokes in military history. A program that supposedly would provide a virtually impenetrable shield to a Soviet nuclear strike, something we can't even say 30+ years later.

196 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:25:34pm

re: #192 gwangung

I'd be willing to consider the argument if SDI actually, oh, I don't know, worked (not even talking deployment here...).

No argument here. I just found it amusing that Phyillis's son thinks this is the most creative and innovative policy ever thought of by an American president. The Reagan circle jerk squad acts like he's the only president to have done great things. Makes me queasy thinking about it.

197 bratwurst  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:26:39pm

Extra hour tonight...yet another government handout.

198 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:27:23pm

re: #197 bratwurst

Extra hour tonight...yet another government handout.

Lousy freeloading farmers who think they're victims/

199 aagcobb  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:27:59pm

re: #186 freetoken

On yet another topic, the racist right is in a fit that the statehood item on the Puerto Rico ballot might this time actually get a majority (last time the vote came up it was just shy of 47%.)

If the outcome for statehood is above 50% it will be fascinating to watch what happens.

I expect a massive burst of racist opposition to Puerto Rican statehood, based on fear of millions of Hispanics invading our shores from P.R. (I doubt many in the GOP base realize that Puerto Ricans are US citizens).

200 prairiefire  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:40:04pm

re: #181 ozbloke

You should take my advice.
I'm not using it.

Go on, give it a go...

"You should take my advice. I'm not using it." I'm stealing that.

201 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:42:01pm

re: #199 aagcobb

I expect a massive burst of racist opposition to Puerto Rican statehood, based on fear of millions of Hispanics invading our shores from P.R. (I doubt many in the GOP base realize that Puerto Ricans are US citizens).

That might not happen. Both Marco Rubio in 2010 and Ted Cruz this year have worked to cultivate Puerto Rican voters in their states, and thus will have heavy incentive to push back. There's not an ethnic difference between Puerto Ricans and most Cubans, so an attack on Puerto Ricans would also be an attack on two of the GOP's own senators. For that reason, if no other, I'd say that people like Sean Hannity and Rich Lowry would pour cold water on the racists.

202 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:53:49pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

There's not an ethnic difference between Puerto Ricans and most Cubans

i tend to think that they're particular about being distinctly different cultures, and even somewhat different ethnically as well

203 darthstar  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:54:47pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

There's not an ethnic difference between Puerto Ricans and most Cubans,

I'll give you a hundred bucks to say that in a bar in Miami.

204 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:56:33pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

There's not an ethnic difference between Puerto Ricans and most Cubans...

Because the GOP's position on Latinos is based on a nuanced understanding of the various ethnicities encompassed by that umbrella term.

///

205 darthstar  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:58:03pm

Hey everyone...just got home from a lovely dinner party for a friend's mom's 70th. Private room, two starters, two pastas, pork three ways, and a couple of desserts...wine pairings throughout. Off the fuckin' hook delicious.

206 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:58:16pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

There's not an ethnic difference between Puerto Ricans and most Cubans, so an attack on Puerto Ricans would also be an attack on two of the GOP's own senators.

They're both Latino, but if you think that Puerto Ricans and Cubans are interchangeable, you're delusional.

207 darthstar  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:59:11pm

re: #204 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

Because the GOP's position of Latinos is based on a nuances understanding of the various ethnicities encompassed by that umbrella term.

///

Because they're equally despised by the GOP until election time.

208 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:00:21pm

re: #203 darthstar

I'll give you a hundred bucks to say that in a bar in Miami.

Heh. Or the Bronx.

209 darthstar  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:04:29pm

re: #208 Lidane

Heh. Or the Bronx.

I'm just amazed that he manages to keep pulling these kinds of things out of his ass and can pretend he doesn't see the problem with it.

210 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:05:11pm

re: #203 darthstar

I'll give you a hundred bucks to say that in a bar in Miami.

I'd not take that bet. But I'm not really trying to get into the cultural differences, which I'll admit exist. But what Sen. Rubio did in 2010 was to emphasize the cultural commonalities between Cubans and Puerto Ricans (and Dominicans as well) in order to gain support, and that tactic was fairly successful.

Moreover, the fact remains that most Cubans would regard 'dog whistle' insults of Puerto Ricans as insults to themselves, and would do so with good reason. Thus such attacks would only serve to create conflict between the party base of two fairly important GOP senators.

The Republican Party would do better to be accepting of Puerto Ricans and work to build bridges.

211 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:08:22pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

The Republican Party would do better to be accepting of Puerto Ricans and work to build bridges.

First things first -- the GOP needs to accept things like reality, reason, and all the social, scientific, and cultural progress we've made since Gutenberg invented movable type.

Once that happens, they might be able to graduate to the master classes of accepting various ethnic and minority groups. Baby steps first, though.

212 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:09:51pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

The Republican Party would do better to be accepting of Puerto Ricans and work to build bridges.

The Republican party would do better to stop demonizing Latinos as a whole. The question is can they?

213 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:10:30pm

re: #212 Sophist, Gingham Style (AKA Bronco Bama)

The Republican party would do better to stop demonizing Latinos as a whole. The question is can they?

With "self-deportation" as a political stance? LOL no.

214 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:12:40pm

re: #213 Lidane

With "self-deportation" as a political stance? LOL no.

That is regarded as appropriate for illegal immigrants. Puerto Ricans are American citizens and Cubans who reach American soil are allowed legal residency. Thus 'self-deport' is non-operational for both.

215 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:14:36pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

That is regarded as appropriate for illegal immigrants. Puerto Ricans are American citizens and Cubans who reach American soil are allowed legal residency. Thus 'self-deport' is non-operational for both.

Yes, because everyone works on the "fuck you, I got mine" principle.

216 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:14:38pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

That is regarded as appropriate for illegal immigrants. Puerto Ricans are American citizens and Cubans who reach American soil are allowed legal residency. Thus 'self-deport' is non-operational for both.

You think that the GOP bigots like Arpaio are only going after illegal immigrants? Keep dreaming.

217 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:15:52pm

[Link: americasvoiceonline.org...] This is from 2010. I think it's a pretty thoughtful analysis on Latinos and both parties.

218 darthstar  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:17:27pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

That is regarded as appropriate for illegal immigrants. Puerto Ricans are American citizens and Cubans who reach American soil are allowed legal residency. Thus 'self-deport' is non-operational for both.

By who besides Mitt Romney? Who else is dismissive enough of undocumented workers to think starving them out of the country by denying them even the most basic services or respect as humans is a good idea?

And the US deports Cubans all the time.

[Link: miamiherald.typepad.com...]

219 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:19:08pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

Also, the people the GOP is riling up against (certain groups) of Latinos are the same types who beat up Sikhs because they think they did 9/11. I doubt Cubans and Puerto Ricans are going to be confident that fine legal distinctions will protect them from the negative consequences of the bigotry the GOP is encouraging.

220 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:19:12pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

That is regarded as appropriate for illegal immigrants. Puerto Ricans are American citizens and Cubans who reach American soil are allowed legal residency. Thus 'self-deport' is non-operational for both.

besides the other comments, i would add that you are taking the remark masquerading as policy at the literal level

but its real function is not as a policy proposal, but as yet another dog whistle

the reason that the gop keeps shooting itself in the foot in regard to american latinos is that it finds these kind of remarks really stir up the base, and they resort to it in a second every time they need that juice

221 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:19:41pm

Honestly, in my observations, if the Republicans had been smart politically, they'd continued with Bush's more inclusive approach and rhetoric on immigration. Instead it's been replaced with Romney who talks about self-deportation and hires the writer of the controversial Arizona law as his immigration adviser. Latino voters aren't stupid. They see the GOP's rhetoric to them and they see the Dems as being more inclusive. You can't just put out Marco Rubio and say look at us, we're not bigots see. I thought Rick Perry by and large was an idiot from my observations of him in the primaries but if there's one thing where he struck me as more smart than Mitt Romney, it was on immigration.

222 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:24:28pm

re: #221 HappyWarrior

Honestly, in my observations, if the Republicans had been smart politically, they'd continued with Bush's more inclusive approach and rhetoric on immigration. Instead it's been replaced with Romney who talks about self-deportation and hires the writer of the controversial Arizona law as his immigration adviser. Latino voters aren't stupid. They see the GOP's rhetoric to them and they see the Dems as being more inclusive. You can't just put out Marco Rubio and say look at us, we're not bigots see. I thought Rick Perry by and large was an idiot from my observations of him in the primaries but if there's one thing where he struck me as more smart than Mitt Romney, it was on immigration.

bush tried to get the gop to face the fact that if there are ten million illegal aliens from mexico working here, it's because there are ten million jobs that employers want to fill at the rates that mexican immigrants are willing to take

illegal immigration is not a problem about border control and breaking the law, it's a problem about not facing an economic reality that is so compelling that it operates regardless of the outdated immigration policies and laws

the only problem i have with all of the people working here illegally is that that fact leaves them open to economic exploitation

223 Targetpractice  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:25:05pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

That is regarded as appropriate for illegal immigrants. Puerto Ricans are American citizens and Cubans who reach American soil are allowed legal residency. Thus 'self-deport' is non-operational for both.

Think Lidane hit it rather nicely on the head, we live in a nation where the term "illegal immigrant" does not conjure up the image of a white guy whose work visa expired. Do you think the Cuban or Puerto Rican fellow cares that the cops who just hauled his ass in for failure to provide valid proof of citizenship mistook him as a Latino from another part of the world?

224 sagehen  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:26:34pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

That is regarded as appropriate for illegal immigrants. Puerto Ricans are American citizens and Cubans who reach American soil are allowed legal residency. Thus 'self-deport' is non-operational for both.

Over the years I have known, and worked with, illegal immigrants from Britain, Australia, the Netherlands and Norway. Pretty much everybody (including some very right wing customers and co-workers) knew they were illegal immigrants, earning cash under the table. Nobody gave them shit about it. They complimented their cute accents, offered to set them up with marriageable neighbors or spinster cousins, puffed out their chests while congratulating these fine illegal immigrants for having the good sense to do whatever they had to (including breaking the law) to come to the Greatest Country on Earth (tm) and try to make a life here.

They did not have a similarly warm attitude towards Mexicans, Salvadorans, Guatemalans, or Americans of Hispanic descent whose families had been in California since before it became a state.

225 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:29:14pm

re: #223 Targetpractice

Think Lidane hit it rather nicely on the head, we live in a nation where the term "illegal immigrant" does not conjure up the image of a white guy whose work visa expired. Do you think the Cuban or Puerto Rican fellow cares that the cops who just hauled his ass in for failure to provide valid proof of citizenship mistook him as a Latino from another part of the world?

No. For that reason its important that all states have Driver's Licenses and State IDs that can serve as proof of legal residency. Those from Florida already do. If any police refuse to accept valid ID and make an arrest they know to be false, then they and their department should be sued civilly and penalized by the Department of Justice. I'm not one to tolerate simply ignoring the law like that.

226 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:29:57pm

re: #222 engineer cat

bush tried to get the gop to face the fact that if there are ten million illegal aliens from mexico working here, it's because there are ten million jobs that employers want to fill at the rates that mexican immigrants are willing to take

illegal immigration is not a problem about border control and breaking the law, it's a problem about not facing an economic reality that is so compelling that it operates regardless of the outdated immigration policies and laws

the only problem i have with all of the people working here illegally is that that fact leaves them open to economic exploitation

Yeah the economic exploitation is a good reason as any I think to support the DREAM ACT. My problem with those who say deport, deport, is they have no regard for the fact that many of the children of illegals that this is the only country they've known. They speak English, they listen to American music, watch American movies, etc. It's home for them. This shit used to upset me first because of the obvious bigotry and insensitivity but it's personal for me too since my future SiL and her family are Peruvian immigrants.

227 freetoken  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:38:21pm
228 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:56:12pm

re: #218 darthstar

Who else is dismissive enough of undocumented workers to think starving them out of the country by denying them even the most basic services or respect as humans is a good idea?

People who are stupid and naive and who deliberately ignore the ways that American industries like agriculture, meat processing, hospitality, and construction are propped up by illegal immigrants.

229 Lidane  Sat, Nov 3, 2012 11:58:25pm

re: #225 Dark_Falcon

Dark, no offense, but you're incredibly naive when it comes to issues like immigration and how these Republican dog whistles are viewed by minority voters.

I'm telling you right here, right now, having valid ID of whatever variety isn't going to keep people from getting pissed off because a cop just pulled them over and asked them for papers because of how they looked.

230 Kragar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:02:48am

Much better than Mitt's "Vote for me or the GOP kills the economy" speech.

231 engineer cat  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:04:33am

actually, i'm sure that "job creators" in general really want the current illegal immigration situation to continue

i can easily imagine them arguing that forcing them to hire legal american workers, with the corresponding increase in wages that would be the result, as an unacceptable "tax" that would force many of them out of business

but they keep quiet because they know what powerful juice anti-latino agitation is for the gop

232 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:13:53am

re: #228 Lidane

People who are stupid and naive and who deliberately ignore the ways that American industries like agriculture, meat processing, hospitality, and construction are propped up by illegal immigrants.

And therein lies much of the reason why comprehensive immigration reform, of any sincere kind, will remain so hard to do. For any sort of sincere reform will have the following effects for all of those industries:

1. Employment for those involved in said industries will be regularized, with an attendant rise in labor costs. This is inherent is any 'Z-Visa' or 'Guest Worker' program. Once employees are legalized, they can't be paid in cash under the table any more. The need for them to pay taxes and for their wages to comply with minimum wage laws will cause their wages to increase, driving up the costs of employing them. Farms, slaughterhouses, and other businesses employing illegal labor will pass these costs on to their customers. Thus, legalizing an illegal immigrant employed picking fruit as a guest worker will result in the price of said fruit going up, not an attractive prospect for politicians.

2. Automation may look more attractive for those industries. As an example, Japan already has robots that can do hotel, office, and condo vacuuming, but the US does not use them as human labor for such a task is cheaper here. But if you raise the price of labor, corporations providing such a service may decide that its cheaper to buy a robot than employ people at the higher price. So legalization might actually end up losing jobs as businesses switch from people to machines.

This is not to say reform is a bad idea, just to illustrate that it will carry costs and risks. Reasonable questions and comments on the thesis just presented are welcome, flames will be ignored.

233 researchok  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:24:28am

Morning, all

234 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:24:34am

I think we should just go ahead and acknowledge that whichever course we choose for "reform," whether it be amnesty or "self deportation," there's going to be sticker shock. If we can't accept that, then reform is DOA.

235 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:27:11am

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

re: #234 Targetpractice

GMTA

236 researchok  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:28:28am

re: #227 freetoken

From deep, deep in the FT vault...

237 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:30:16am

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

re: #234 Targetpractice

GMTA

That was more in response to your post. Saying that there will be "risks and costs" is just stating the obvious. Big business has been fighting reform for years, because without a plentiful supply of cheap labor that they can exploit without fear of legal penalty, then they're left either passing on the costs and losing business in a country that has an insatiable hunger for "cheap" goods, or automating out the work.

238 researchok  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:36:13am
NYT's QUOTATION OF THE DAY

"I am screaming mad because this is an inhumane way to live in the highest property-taxed area of the entire state."

HANK ARKIN, on power failures and a lack of basic necessities on Long Island after Hurricane Sandy.

Yeah, to hell with everyone else.
/

239 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:40:51am

re: #234 Targetpractice

I think we should just go ahead and acknowledge that whichever course we choose for "reform," whether it be amnesty or "self deportation," there's going to be sticker shock. If we can't accept that, then reform is DOA.

We can either have amnesty or police going door to door, checking ID and rounding people up. Cannot imagine us supporting the latter.

240 efuseakay  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:43:05am

Automation. If the machines are made (born) in China, shouldn't they just self-deport?

241 engineer cat  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:45:58am

passing along the costs

however, the more your product or service is commoditized, the more a business owner would tend to be wary of passing along increases in costs. in a totally commoditized market, cost is your only significant way of distinguishing yourself from your competitor - see target and walmart

if you can absorb the increase in costs without raising your prices, and your competitor can't, you stand to make up in volume what you lose in margin, and potentially make even more money net, or perhaps on the other hand survive and pick up the business in the long run of competitors who fall by the wayside

which is just to say that 'passing along the costs' is not at all inevitable

242 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:46:04am

We could make things a lot easer regarding illegal immigration (and voter fraud) if we just issued a universal national citizen ID card, the kind that is common in many countries.

Any takes or that?

*crickets*

243 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:47:51am

re: #237 Targetpractice

That was more in response to your post. Saying that there will be "risks and costs" is just stating the obvious. Big business has been fighting reform for years, because without a plentiful supply of cheap labor that they can exploit without fear of legal penalty, then they're left either passing on the costs and losing business in a country that has an insatiable hunger for "cheap" goods, or automating out the work.

Of course the problems with explaining the costs of reform are that most people are uninformed/short-sighted and that politicians have relatively short time-horizons due to their terms of office. Explaining a reform that entails visible costs to the public is likely a loser, since too many people will always being willing to listen to some slick-talking opponent who will say that the talk of costs is all a plot by (fill-in-the-blank), and if the slick talker is elected he'll make sure that John Q. Public "can have it all!". And even if that slick talker could be smacked down by his party, the fact remains that passing a reform in which the costs come before many of the benefits is liable to get a politician bounced out of office when the voters head for the polls seeing mostly the costs.

I try not to despair, but part of me thinks the whole preceding paragraph could be summarized in two words: "We're fucked."

244 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:48:38am

re: #242 AK-47%

We could make things a lot easer regarding illegal immigration (and voter fraud) if we just issued a universal national citizen ID card, the kind that is common in many countries.

Any takes or that?

*crickets*

I'd be willing to support that.

245 researchok  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:52:02am

re: #239 AK-47%

How's this?

There is a 60 day only window for all illegals to register with the federal government. They will be given ID cards and provisional Social Security cards so that they can get onto the tax rolls.

These cards will allow illegals here to begin the application for citizenship after 10 years, assuming they meet all the necessary criteria. Illegal aliens are moved to the back of those legally seeking American residency and citizenship line. All those who applied legally and played by the rules will be given precedence.

When they register, they must sign a document agreeing that they will obey our laws, both criminal and civil. If they break the law, they agree they become subject to deportation after any criminal charges are dealt with. Children born here and under the age of 18 will not be able to influence residency laws. No family need be broken up- parents are free to return home with their children.

Family reunification will no longer be an accepted way to circumvent immigration laws. If you miss your family so much, the airlines will be happy to transport you back home for a short or extended holiday. Your family are free to apply for immigration just like everyone else.

All illegal aliens who do not comply with registration or other requirements will be subject to deportation after the 60 day window has closed. Families who do not wish to be separated are free to leave and accompany the illegal alien back home.

People who have been legally waiting for years for residency ought not be punished or moved to the back of the line

246 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:52:25am

re: #243 Dark_Falcon

Of course the problems with explaining the costs of reform are that most people are uninformed/short-sighted and that politicians have relatively short time-horizons due to their terms of office. Explaining a reform that entails visible costs to the public is likely a loser, since too many people will always being willing to listen to some slick-talking opponent who will say that the talk of costs is all a plot by (fill-in-the-blank), and if the slick talker is elected he'll make sure that John Q. Public "can have it all!". And even if that slick talker could be smacked down by his party, the fact remains that passing a reform in which the costs come before many of the benefits is liable to get a politician bounced out of office when the voters head for the polls seeing mostly the costs.

I try not to despair, but part of me thinks the whole preceding paragraph could be summarized in two words: "We're fucked."

And we got a slick talker now running for the presidency, who's telling folks that we'll simply set up things where undocumented workers "self deport," which supposedly will save us the cost and headache of chasing those folks out ourselves.

247 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:00:53am

re: #245 researchok

How's this?

There is a 60 day only window for all illegals to register with the federal government. They will be given ID cards and provisional Social Security cards so that they can get onto the tax rolls.

These cards will allow illegals here to begin the application for citizenship after 10 years, assuming they meet all the necessary criteria. Illegal aliens are moved to the back of those seeking American residency and citizenship line. All those who applied legally and played by the rules will be given precedence.

When they register, they must sign a document agreeing that they will obey our laws, both criminal and civil. If they break the law, they agree they become subject to deportation after any criminal charges are dealt with. Children born here and under the age of 18 will not be able to influence residency laws. No family need be broken up- parents are free to return home with their children.

Family reunification will no longer be an accepted way to circumvent immigration laws. If you miss your family so much, the airlines will be happy to transport you back home for a short or extended holiday. Your family are free to apply for immigration just like everyone else.

All illegal aliens who do not comply with registration or other requirements will be subject to deportation after the 60 day window has closed. Families who do not wish to be separated are free to leave and accompany the illegal alien back home.

People who have been legally waiting for years for residency ought not be punished or moved to the back of the line

The problem with that approach will be the sob-stories about people who "could not get to the right office" or "didn't have their paperwork". For your approach to be implemented, it will mean deporting a man whose wife and children are citizens because he filled out his paperwork incorrectly. The media accounts of that man's deportation are going to stick in a lot of people's craws and cause you to be called "cruel and heartless".

248 researchok  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:04:34am

Many people are unhappy because somehow it seems that illegal aliens have ‘gotten away’ with breaking the law.

They are right- they have beat the system and that isn't fair.

Too bad. Life isn't fair.

The vast majority of illegals are hard working people who come here for a better life and to send money home to family- just like the hard working prople have for generations before them.

Those who aren't happy with the system have only themselves to blame.

For 50 years, illegals have been pouring over the borders and no one cared enough to make an issue out of it and to demand it stop. In states like California, this neglect has led to skyrocketing state budgets, healthcare and education costs.

Don’t blame the illegal immigrants for the sins of the successive governments which were elected and did not deal with the problem.

249 researchok  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:07:36am

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

That will be a tiny minority. The chance to get legal will bring out even the most deeply hidden

Immigrant communities can help out here.

60 days notice, 60 days to register.

And if this path to legal residency and eventual citizenship leads some to call me 'cold and heartless'- well, so be it.

250 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:12:31am

re: #249 researchok

That will be a tiny minority. The chance to get legal will bring out even the most deeply hidden

Immigrant communities can help out here.

60 days notice, 60 days to register.

And if this path to legal residency and eventual citizenship leads some to call me 'cold and heartless'- well, so be it.

"Then enjoy your last term in office, Congressman."

That's the line that precludes Congresspeople saying that last thing you wrote.

251 researchok  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:17:58am

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

OK by me.


Look, no one is dealing with immigration reality.

Mitt wants to self deport and Obama is deporting in record numbers.

And that's for starters

252 Mattand  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:34:29am

I get a kick out of the fact that the GOP seems to forget that self-deportation was made up by a writer from CA of Mexican descent, who was satirizing Republicans' obsession with deporting anything with a tan.

That Romney has actually run with this as actual policy is beyond freaking hilarious. And sad.

253 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:47:54am

And as long as our border is porous in large stretches, there will always be new illegals finding a way in. that is another hole that nobody is willing to stuff enough money into in order to plug it.

254 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:56:22am

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

There's not an ethnic difference between Puerto Ricans and most Cubans, ...

They, however, see things differently. Despite a common language and common colonial heritage, our neighbors to the south don't always get along with one another so well.

255 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:57:51am

re: #254 wheat-dogg

They, however, see things differently. Despite a common language and common colonial heritage, our neighbors to the south don't always get along with one another so well.

Gosh, this is even more confusing than the Sunni/Shiite thing with those other dark-skinned people who annoy us by not just doing what we say and leaving us alone otherwise...

/

256 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:00:29am

re: #255 AK-47%

Yeah, exactly.

/

257 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:21:18am

Morning Honcos.

258 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:23:07am

There is something wrong with the "show users" button. Only has one name innit and I ain't one of them.

259 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:24:16am

I get the same thing, NoVA Mouse

260 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:25:02am

re: #259 AK-47%

I get the same thing, NoVA Mouse

Yep. And I can't refresh the page although that might be on my end. Not sure.

261 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:27:12am

Shall we go refresh ourselves with some pages, congressman?

262 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:33:43am

I've posted about the monkey that was running loose in Tampa. Now more bad news for those bitten,
Mystery Monkey tests positive for herpes B
Humans who contract the virus can develop encephalitis, a mostly fatal illness that causes swelling of the brain. Of the 22 herpes B cases in recorded history, 15 people have died from encephalitis, according to the National Institutes of Health.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

263 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:44:05am

The Forgotten Long-Term Unemployed
Annie Lowrey and I have an article in Friday’s paper about the gigantic, overlooked underclass of long-term unemployed workers, whose safety net has now frayed bare and whose troubles are probably holding back the overall jobs picture as they become less and less employable. This 4.8-million-strong group has gotten very little attention during the presidential campaign, despite the candidates’ purported focus on the economy.

In fact, in the second debate, when Candy Crowley directly asked the candidates how to alleviate long-term unemployment, Mitt Romney offered some broad statements about joblessness in general before quickly switching topics to the Detroit auto bailout. President Obama never addressed the question at all.
[Link: economix.blogs.nytimes.com...]

264 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 2:55:33am

re: #263 Cannadian Club Akbar

We have a lot of people who are too poorly trained to be employable and too poorly educated to be trainable.

Cuts in education have long-term effects, and I think this is part of what we are seeing: the decline in the quality of basic education that has been setting in for the past several decades.

265 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 3:03:45am

re: #264 AK-47%

While this may be true, after 22 years in the restaurant industry, I couldn't get a job in the industry, other than some temp work with a guy I worked for previously, because I had been out of the industry for 4 years when I started applying again. Another thing is most places want you to fill out an application online instead of showing up with a resume. You tend to get lost in the shuffle doing it that way, with 100 people applying for the same job.

266 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 3:06:51am

re: #265 Cannadian Club Akbar

A friend of mine in the hotel industry tells me that his chain simply cannot use people who are not intelligent enough to grasp complex problems and solve them independently, except as maids and groundskeepers.

267 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 3:12:48am

re: #266 AK-47%

A friend of mine in the hotel industry tells me that his chain simply cannot use people who are not intelligent enough to grasp complex problems and solve them independently, except as maids and groundskeepers.

Heh. I talk to people and tell them about my management experience and even throw out numbers that I used to run, talk about P and L and how to increase sales. I did an interview with a small chain (7 stores) in Florida back in 2004 or 2005. The guy asked if I had any questions for him and I said, "Yes. What, eventually, does this place have to offer me"? he said, "What is your goal"? I said "To be Director of Operations". Wanna guess what his job title was?

268 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 3:25:25am

re: #267 Cannadian Club Akbar

...he said, "What is your goal"? I said "To be Director of Operations". Wanna guess what his job title was?

So what was his goal, or had he already reached his level of incompetence?

269 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 3:29:48am

re: #268 AK-47%

So what was his goal, or had he already reached his level of incompetence?

At the point of the interview, no. By early 2010 they were down to 4 or 5 stores.

270 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 3:43:33am

This MMA wanna be taunts his opponent, gets KO'd. Heh.

271 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 3:50:51am

Just wow.
George Lucas Will Donate Disney $4 Billion To Education
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

272 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:01:17am

I could hear it from my house.
:)

273 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:11:44am

Just checked accuweather and this was a hunting tip on the side:
Sleeping with your head inside a sleeping bag will raise the humidity level, making the inside of the bag damp. The dampness will cool as it evaporates, turning your good night's sleep into a chilly one.
1. I did not know this.
2. I don't hunt
3. If it's cold out, why sleep there?

274 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:18:19am

re: #271 Cannadian Club Akbar

I hope it goes toward public education, and not charter schools or the latest bandwagon of "value-added" education (meaning standardized tests to measure how well the "factory workers" -- teachers -- are turning out "widgets" -- students).

Also, you sleep outside because deer typically don't drop by your comfy little house for a cup of tea before you shoot them dead.

275 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:28:54am

re: #273 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just checked accuweather and this was a hunting tip on the side:
Sleeping with your head inside a sleeping bag will raise the humidity level, making the inside of the bag damp. The dampness will cool as it evaporates, turning your good night's sleep into a chilly one.
1. I did not know this.
2. I don't hunt
3. If it's cold out, why sleep there?

I have a friend who does winter camping at the boundary waters in MN. Purpose? No freaking clue. Who camps in sub-zero weather? Why do people camp in sub-zero weather? I don't get it. Never will. (Of course, I don't get camping in good weather. But that's just me. I like a bed, toilet and hot bath, when I'm roughing it. :-)

276 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:32:27am

re: #275 Joanne

I've never been camping because I have an irrational fear of bears.

277 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:34:31am

re: #276 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've never been camping because I have an irrational fear of bears.

*Jots that down for future use*

278 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:35:38am

re: #276 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've never been camping because I have an irrational fear of bears.

I don't trust elevators.
Never have.
Never will.
Irrational? I think not.
:P

279 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:36:22am

re: #275 Joanne

I have a friend who does winter camping at the boundary waters in MN. Purpose? No freaking clue. Who camps in sub-zero weather? Why do people camp in sub-zero weather? I don't get it. Never will. (Of course, I don't get camping in good weather. But that's just me. I like a bed, toilet and hot bath, when I'm roughing it. :-)

When I lived in Wyoming, I had two friends (a couple) who were hunters and loved winter camping. Like you, I didn't quite get the appeal, and still don't. Anyway, these two visited Kodiak on a camping trip and loved it so much they moved there!

Maybe it's a way to thumb your nose at Mother Nature and say, yeah, I'm tough enough to sleep outside in weather that will freeze your toes and fingers off.

Me, I'd rather be warm, especially as I approach retirement age.

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:37:46am

re: #278 Varek Raith

I don't trust elevators.
Never have.
Never will.
Irrational? I think not.
:P

I've been to the 102nd floor of the Empire State building. You get to the top using a manually run elevator for the last 22 floors, iirc (on the floor amount).

281 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:42:14am

re: #275 Joanne

I have a friend who does winter camping at the boundary waters in MN. Purpose? No freaking clue. Who camps in sub-zero weather? Why do people camp in sub-zero weather? I don't get it. Never will. (Of course, I don't get camping in good weather. But that's just me. I like a bed, toilet and hot bath, when I'm roughing it. :-)

Did that once on a hiking trip in the Grand Canyon in December. Down in the Canoyn it warms up during the day and is pleasant, but at night, the Canyon fills up like a bathub with cold air pouring in from the rim.

We had brought a bottle of champagne along to celebrate New Year, I had to sleep with it to keep it from freezing and explosing.

282 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:42:22am

I bet bears look at humans the way we look at candy bars: fun size, regular and king size.

283 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:43:27am

re: #276 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've never been camping because I have an irrational fear of bears.

Took our 11-day old daughter 'camping' in E. Kentucky (I was working in the parks.) She spent more than half her life in a tent, at one point. Best line ever from a MIL: "If you kill that kid, I don't want to hear about it."

284 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:43:36am

re: #282 Cannadian Club Akbar

I bet bears look at humans the way we look at candy bars: fun size, regular and king size.

Remember the Far Side comic with the two polar bears outside an igloo?

"I love these things! Crunchy on the outside, soft and chewy on the inside!"

285 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:46:05am

Biggest bear that ever lived.
Now extinct.
Image: biggest-bear-ever-found-diagram_31977_200x150.jpg

286 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:48:02am

re: #276 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've never been camping because I have an irrational fear of bears.

Irrational?? Does a bear shit in the woods? Them she and I should not. Nothing irrational there.

287 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:48:06am

re: #285 Varek Raith

Biggest bear that ever lived.
Now extinct.
Image: biggest-bear-ever-found-diagram_31977_200x150.jpg

[Link: news.nationalgeographic.com...]

288 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:48:24am

This kid ain't afraid of no polar bear!!!
Image: knut%20old.jpg

289 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:49:56am

re: #279 wheat-dogg

Ok, I'm cold just reading that. I'd love to visit AK. In springtime.

290 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:50:14am

We used to have meetings at Peppin Distributors (Budweiser) in Tampa. Avid hunters. Had a stuffed grizzly there. About 9 feet tall.

291 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:51:44am

re: #281 AK-47%

I'd think the champaign IN you would have kept you warmer. :-)

292 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:54:09am

re: #284 AK-47%

Remember the Far Side comic with the two polar bears outside an igloo?

"I love these things! Crunchy on the outside, soft and chewy on the inside!"

That's one of hubby's fav's.

293 Flounder  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:55:17am

Your computer clock is right, all the others are wrong, why didn't anyone tell me!?
Good morning!

294 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:55:43am

re: #290 Cannadian Club Akbar

We used to have meetings at Peppin Distributors (Budweiser) in Tampa. Avid hunters. Had a stuffed grizzly there. About 9 feet tall.

We walked through the warehouse and my area director told me, "this is where good people go after they die". Heh.

295 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 4:57:04am

re: #291 Joanne

I'd think the champaign IN you would have kept you warmer. :-)

Ugh. *champagne

Way too early on a Sunday.

296 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 5:07:38am

re: #295 Joanne

Ugh. *champagne

Way too early on a Sunday.

I dunno, champagne breakfast sounds pretty good.
.
.
.
(Yes, I know you meant the spelling ...)

297 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 5:08:59am

re: #296 wheat-dogg

I dunno, champagne breakfast sounds pretty good.

This is why you're my favorite.
/

298 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 5:14:11am

re: #297 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, I'm only 7000 miles away over the Pole. Come on over!

299 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 5:18:52am

re: #291 Joanne

I'd think the champaign IN you would have kept you warmer. :-)

I was trying to keep it intact until New Year's Eve...

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 5:30:20am

Hines Ward (Pittsburgh Steelers) on "The Walking Dead".
[Link: www.nfl.com...]

301 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:05:58am

Official time.
[Link: time.gov...]

302 Gus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:08:49am

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

That might not happen. Both Marco Rubio in 2010 and Ted Cruz this year have worked to cultivate Puerto Rican voters in their states, and thus will have heavy incentive to push back. There's not an ethnic difference between Puerto Ricans and most Cubans, so an attack on Puerto Ricans would also be an attack on two of the GOP's own senators. For that reason, if no other, I'd say that people like Sean Hannity and Rich Lowry would pour cold water on the racists.

I uh. What I meant to say, was, I uh. Uh. I mean. Oh never mind.

303 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:09:42am

re: #302 Gus

I uh. What I meant to say, was, I uh. Uh. I mean. Oh never mind.

Yes, Gus?

304 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:14:40am

re: #302 Gus

I uh. What I meant to say, was, I uh. Uh. I mean. Oh never mind.

Cat got your tongue?

305 Lidane  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:15:55am

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

re: #251 researchok

What no one mentions is the fact that our LEGAL immigration standards and processes are completely fucked. One of my cousins is an immigration lawyer. She'd be out of work if the legal process for becoming a citizen wasn't a complete clusterfuck. Even if you have all your papers properly filled out and you do everything by the book it's still a nightmare.

We can't even start to tackle illegal immigration until our legal immigration system is completely overhauled.

306 Gus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:15:58am

re: #304 wheat-dogg

Cat got your tongue?

Yeah, pretty much. Ted Cruz, heh.

307 KronoGhazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:17:03am

re: #306 Gus

Yeah, pretty much. Ted Cruz, heh.

Rubio was on Glenn Beck Friday AM. Oh boy.

308 researchok  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:18:01am

re: #305 Lidane

Absolutely

309 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:19:55am

re: #305 Lidane

I also agree. The legal immigration system is a patchwork of contradictory regulations and directives, from what I've heard and read. You have to be one dedicated soul to navigate through all the offices needed to get your papers.

310 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:22:41am

re: #305 Lidane

The GOP objection to the DREAM act is repellent especially because it actually restores some sanity to the immigration process. Immigration is a very tricky subject philosophically. While the ultra-liberty-loving side of me says that everyone should have the 'right' to try to make it in the US, the practicality is that we couldn't accept the flood of people who'd just like to be here. Already, though, practical reality selects a sub-population: people who manage to get here. The DREAM act starts very small, just legitimizing the children who came here without documentation, if they don't get into trouble and make something of their lives through education or the military.

Why on earth would we not want those kids as citizens? We are always going to take in immigrants, so why not take in kids who grew up in America and show that they're making something of themselves?

311 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:26:34am

re: #306 Gus

Yeah, pretty much. Ted Cruz, heh.

He's a So-con, but he has the ability to do an important service for the GOP by broadening its ethnic base. The Republican party needs people who can reach out to non-'white' ethnicities but who also have the sort of power base within the party that will enable them to slap down bigots. Ted Cruz can serve in that role.

Point that needs to be thrown in the face of bigots: "Take a look at the GOP's rising stars along the Third Coast." Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, none of those three is 'white'. The party needs the votes those men can attract and the energy they can bring. Either move towards the future, or get lost."

312 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:27:13am

re: #306 Gus

Yeah, pretty much. Ted Cruz, heh.

Don't know much about him, but just read his wikipedia entry. He was born in Calgary? His dad was born in Cuba and his mom in the USA. He graduated from my alma mater :-( with a BA. And from Harvard Law. He's a Southern Baptist.

The Tea Party likes him, it seems.

I would question dark_falcon's characterization of Cruz as not 'white'. From his background, save his dad's Cuban birth, Cruz is pretty vanilla. Only his name is non-WASP.

Kinda like Obama, come to think of it.

313 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:29:12am

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

Point that needs to be thrown in the face of bigots: "Take a look at the GOP's rising stars along the Third Coast." Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, none of those three is 'white'. The party needs the votes those men can attract and the energy they can bring. Either move towards the future, or get lost."

But Dark, the GOP is a party with absolutely bigoted party planks. The opposition to gay rights is bigotry. There is no reason a gay citizen shouldn't have the same rights as you, and your party says otherwise.

314 Gus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:29:14am

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

He's a So-con, but he has the ability to do an important service for the GOP by broadening its ethnic base. The Republican party needs people who can reach out to non-'white' ethnicities but who also have the sort of power base within the party that will enable them to slap down bigots. Ted Cruz can serve in that role.

Point that needs to be thrown in the face of bigots: "Take a look at the GOP's rising stars along the Third Coast." Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, none of those three is 'white'. The party needs the votes those men can attract and the energy they can bring. Either move towards the future, or get lost."

Ted Cruz is Canadian.

315 Flounder  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:30:44am

Axelrod on Fox this morning. He seemed very confident. He stated Virginia is the state to watch for early poll results, and if they lose Ohio, Axelrod will lose the mustache.

Beeson, Romney's director, not so confident, he just looked like a wide eyed boot licker, could not directly answer questions about their Jeep ads.

316 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:31:12am

re: #314 Gus

Ted Cruz is Canadian.

Is he duel? I know he was born there.

317 Gus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:31:31am

Too much Republican propaganda here this morning. Later.

318 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:32:24am

re: #315 Shropshire_Slasher

Axelrod on Fox this morning. He seemed very confident. He stated Virginia is the state to watch for early poll results, and if they lose Ohio, Axelrod will lose the mustache.

Beeson, Romney's director, not so confident, he just looked like a wide eyed boot licker, could not directly answer questions about their Jeep ads.

No TV here. Sports talk from Tampa!!!

319 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:33:55am

re: #314 Gus

Ted Cruz is Canadian.

Fortunately, Calgary is a Conservative stronghold, so he remains unsullied by Socialism.

/tongue-in-cheek

320 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:35:30am

re: #317 Gus

I try to argue a case in a reasonable and responsive fashion and that's "propaganda"?

Too close to the election, I guess.

321 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:39:08am

OMG!! The sun is out for the first time in a week!!!

322 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:40:06am

re: #320 Dark_Falcon

I try to argue a case in a reasonable and responsive fashion and that's "propaganda"?

Too close to the election, I guess.

Then can you please deal with my point about GOP anti-gay bigotry?

323 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:40:06am

Here's City Journal's Nicole Gelinas, talking about the importance of New York City's underground infrastructure. No wingnut she, as she gives the MTA unstinted praise for its work in keeping New York going after Hurricane Sandy:

One thing had made the difference even more than the vehicle restrictions: the subways were falteringly running again. The buses that the MTA had restored by Wednesday morning simply couldn’t replace the subways. Still, there were big gaps in Thursday’s subway service. The MTA could provide trains from the Bronx and parts of Queens to midtown Manhattan, and also within parts of Brooklyn. But until it got tubes dry and the power back on, it couldn’t send trains to lower Manhattan or to Brooklyn.

Hence the “bus bridges”: 330 buses to head from downtown Brooklyn over the Williamsburg and Manhattan Bridges through midtown Manhattan to try to close the service gap. Though Mayor Michael Bloomberg wants Sunday’s New York City marathon to be a symbol that New York is open for business and pleasure, the real symbol was the convoys of buses that got New York moving again. The waits were long and the service slow, but MTA managers and workers remained organized and competent throughout. The MTA’s actions hearteningly showed that the agency will always find a way to keep New York moving.

As of Friday afternoon, it’s unclear how long it will take to repair the region’s transportation assets entirely. The MTA is still waiting for power to run subways through downtown. The Metro-North Railroad and the Long Island Rail Road are running limited service, as is New Jersey Transit. But PATH train tubes and stations between Manhattan and New Jersey are still flooded. The Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, too, remains filled end to end with 85 million gallons—what Cuomo called “a mile of water.” Army pumps are draining it. Still severing subway service between Manhattan and Brooklyn is the power blackout in lower Manhattan: subways run on electricity.

324 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:43:31am

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

I'll admit that's a non-derpy article from City Journal. However, she's wrong if she thinks New York City is the home of the social media stuff-- that's San Francisco. New York is advertising, marketing, finance, much more than high-tech per se.

325 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:44:28am

re: #322 Obdicut

Then can you please deal with my point about GOP anti-gay bigotry?

Not much to say about it. What is self-evident to you is seen as craziness by many other people. They don't wish to "indulge" behavior they see as aberrant and immoral.

Note: I'm not saying that I see gayness as immoral; I don't and haven't since I was 15. But others do see it that way, and they form a large part of the Republican Party's voter base.

326 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:47:42am

re: #324 Obdicut

I'll admit that's a non-derpy article from City Journal. However, she's wrong if she thinks New York City is the home of the social media stuff-- that's San Francisco. New York is advertising, marketing, finance, much more than high-tech per se.

Would you mind updinging it, then? Gus is downdinging all my posts.

327 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:52:11am

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

OMG!! The sun is out for the first time in a week!!!

Whose son?

328 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:52:18am

re: #325 Dark_Falcon

Not much to say about it. What is self-evident to you is seen as craziness by many other people. They don't wish to "indulge" behavior they see as aberrant and immoral.

Note: I'm not saying that I see gayness as immoral; I don't and haven't since I was 15. But others do see it that way, and they form a large part of the Republican Party's voter base.

Yeah. But you're talking about throwing stuff in bigots faces, while ignoring that you're talking about people who are bigots themselves. The GOP can't take a stance against bigotry. It embraces bigotry. At best, it can selectively say it won't tolerate some forms of bigotry, but will others. Religious bigotry is good in the GOP-- the anti-Muslim fanatics are completely unchecked by the party as a whole. The Christian Revanchists use Jews as a fig leaf, but it's not actually a real interest in Jews, especially not American Liberal Jews. THere are many GOP politicians who will state clearly that Christianity should be the guiding principle of the nation. Religious bigotry is entrenched in the GOP.

The election of president Obama revealed and exacerbated the racial bigotry of the GOP. Shit like 'food stamp president', and birtherism-- which is endorsed by Romney, the GOP candidate-- is racist, and completely at home in the GOP. A hundred and fifty years after the Civil War, fifty years after the Civil Rights Movement, the GOP is still struggling mightily with racism, and in many cases not struggling at all with it but embracing it.

What you are saying is that a few individuals who are non-white show something significant in the GOP. But that's not what government is about. It's not about figureheads. The rights of black people didn't suddenly advance when Obama was elected president. Policy matters, actions matter, and that is what the GOP would need to show if they actually want support from minorities: Actions that benefit minorities. Actions that don't directly attack and screw over minorities. Not figureheads.

And don't talk about the GOP rejecting bigotry, because it's not true. The GOP endorses a large number of positions that are bigoted.

329 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:53:19am

re: #327 sattv4u2

Whose son?

Sunshine on my shoulder makes me happy...

330 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:53:32am

re: #324 Obdicut

I'll admit that's a non-derpy article from City Journal. However, she's wrong if she thinks New York City is the home of the social media stuff-- that's San Francisco. New York is advertising, marketing, finance, much more than high-tech per se.

Still those occupations depend on the information economy, which does keep her point close enough to be serviceable. Her closing comment about flooded infrastructure meaning "you aren’t going to be designing social-media apps in your bedroom." struck me as a note of warning directed at the public, not New York's leading industries.

331 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:53:54am

re: #326 Dark_Falcon

Would you mind updinging it, then? Gus is downdinging all my posts.

Only if you say that you reject Scaife and all his works.

332 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:54:20am

Morning Lizardim.

333 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:54:44am

re: #329 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sunshine on my shoulder makes me happy...

Wow,, you must have paid extra

Last time I was at the strip club Sunshine only gave me a lap dance, not a shoulder one!!

/

334 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:55:07am

re: #331 Obdicut

Only if you say that you reject Scaife and all his works.

I can't say that. I'm not sure what all I'd be rejecting, or even if it'd be wrong.

/I know you may be kidding.

335 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:57:03am

I see my late arrival has brought me square in the middle of the latest round of LGF Flame Wars. I'd better go don my fire-retardant scales.

336 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:58:34am

Mornin' gang...happy day before the day before.

Holy crap, DF's still going? That must be some awesome meth.

337 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:58:44am

re: #335 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I see my late arrival has brought me square in the middle of the latest round of LGF Flame Wars. I'd better go don my fire-retardant scales.

Na. Pretty calm so far.

338 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:59:19am

re: #335 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I see my late arrival has brought me square in the middle of the latest round of LGF Flame Wars. I'd better go don my fire-retardant scales.

I'm not flaming anyone. How do you flame a dopefish anyway? They live underwater.

/

339 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:59:36am

re: #337 Cannadian Club Akbar

Na. Pretty calm so far.

Waiting for Sunshine to come back on the main stage!!
/

340 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:59:57am

re: #338 Dark_Falcon

Did you sleep last night?

341 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 6:59:58am

re: #338 Dark_Falcon

I'm not flaming anyone. How do you flame a dopefish anyway? They live underwater.

/

M-80.
/half

342 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:00:26am

re: #310 Obdicut

Why on earth would we not want those kids as citizens? We are always going to take in immigrants, so why not take in kids who grew up in America and show that they're making something of themselves?

Even the standard argument "But they broke the law!" does not apply to children who are brought here by their parents. I do not undersand it other than a knee-jerk xenophobic reaction.

343 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:00:27am

re: #336 darthstar

Mornin' gang...happy day before the day before.

Holy crap, DF's still going? That must be some awesome meth.

No, I was sleeping for a few hours. My sleep rhythm was seriously out of whack last night.

344 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:01:08am

re: #338 Dark_Falcon

I'm not flaming anyone. How do you flame a dopefish anyway? They live underwater.

/

Like I'm going to tell the likes of YOU my one weakness./

345 ninja cat  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:02:06am

re: #315 Shropshire_Slasher

I was hoping Axe would repeat the "coming from his loins" quote, if only to see the RW heads explode.

346 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:04:01am

I could have just won a prize pack from my sports talk but you have to go to Tampa to pick it up.:( (via trivia question)

347 Flounder  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:04:08am

re: #345 ninja cat

How did you get a picture of my putty tat?!
/
My black cat is named Pickles, we also have freckles and skittles.

348 makeitstopghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:05:51am

Morning, Lizards,

Today was supposed to have been my day to sleep in. Instead, I was wide awake at 8:00 this morning.

Stupid clocks.

349 Flounder  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:07:02am

This is as close to sports as I can get.
Dennis Rodman still living life like a rock star.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

350 ninja cat  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:08:45am

re: #347 Shropshire_Slasher

That is my Odie, aka ninja cat. He is particularly fond of, and good at, entangling himself in legs so you fall down and go boom.

351 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:10:24am

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

Point that needs to be thrown in the face of bigots: "Take a look at the GOP's rising stars along the Third Coast." Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, none of those three is 'white'. The party needs the votes those men can attract and the energy they can bring. Either move towards the future, or get lost."

I can't believe you would call Bobby "Exorcist" Jindal and Ted "UN Golf Courses" Cruz rising stars. Even Rubio was saying stupid stuff like "faith in God is the most important American value".

This is the best you got? Really?

352 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:14:53am

re: #351 dragonath

I can't believe you would call Bobby "Exorcist" Jindal and Ted "UN Golf Courses" Cruz rising stars. Even Rubio was saying stupid stuff like "faith in God is the most important American value".

This is the best you got? Really?

Ethnically speaking, there are no differences between them.
//


Sorry, DF, but I'm still face-palming over that one eight hours later.

353 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:17:00am

COMING SOON from City Journal!!!

MICHAEL KNOX BERAN
Abolish Social Studies
Born a century ago, the pseudo-discipline has outlived its uselessness.

Because the 45% of Birthers in the GOP is too few

354 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:18:40am
355 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:19:12am

re: #352 darthstar

Sorry, DF, but I'm still face-palming over that one eight hours later.

I said it the wrong way. I was trying to point out that someone slurring Puerto Ricans would be slurring Cubans as well and that would mean they would be slurring one and soon to be two Republican senators. I was trying to point out why bigotry isn't a good idea. If it came out wrong, I'm sorry.

356 Lidane  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:21:14am

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

He's a So-con, but he has the ability to do an important service for the GOP by broadening its ethnic base.

Broadening the base isn't enough. Ted Cruz embodies every shitty idea that the GOP has, which is the real problem.

Again, we have to go back to the Republican party accepting reality first. They have to do that before they can ever think about broadening their base or understanding minority voters.

357 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:21:27am

re: #353 dragonath

Because the 45% of Birthers in the GOP is too few

Please explain that remark.

358 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:23:10am

re: #357 Dark_Falcon

Please explain that remark.

Birthers are your problem, not mine.

359 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:24:49am

re: #355 Dark_Falcon

No worries.

By the way, I know you see Rubio, Cruz, Jindal as shining examples that the GOP isn't racist at its core right now, but these guys are hand picked and trained by the GOP so they'll support GOP's oppressive policies. See Rubio and opposition to the DREAM act, or Jindal and voucherized education in LA.

360 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:24:58am

Good morning. I'm sore, feels like I fell back.
:-)

361 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:27:25am

re: #358 dragonath

Birthers are your problem, not mine.

And I hammer them as best as a man may where ever I encounter them.

362 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:27:47am
363 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:29:44am

re: #361 Dark_Falcon

And I hammer them as best as a man may where ever I encounter them.

Except birther Mitt Romney...him you'll vote for. And yes, he's gone birther consistently throughout this campaign. Worse, he's gone racist in the closing days with the resurrection of his welfare lie ads.

364 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:29:46am

re: #362 darthstar

[prissy]That's crude, rude and indecent. Shame on you.[/prissy]

When it comes to things like that, I'm a priss, I admit it.

365 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:31:42am

re: #351 dragonath

I can't believe you would call Bobby "Exorcist" Jindal and Ted "UN Golf Courses" Cruz rising stars. Even Rubio was saying stupid stuff like "faith in God is the most important American value".

This is the best you got? Really?

Well, they are rising stars in the GOP which is indicitive of how bad the GOP is. Read anything Rubio says. He understands policy like Ryan does, which means barely. Jindal's volcano monitoring speech was laughable (Kenneth the Page). They're all lazy thinkers.

If this is the best, the GOP is truly and deeply fucked. To which I say, GOOD. We need a sane oppo party.

366 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:31:59am
367 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:34:48am

re: #364 Dark_Falcon

[prissy]That's crude, rude and indecent. Shame on you.[/prissy]

When it comes to things like that, I'm a priss, I admit it.

You do realize that 'priss' is a term used to describe a girl who's being a total dick, right? I think you meant to say 'prude'...

368 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:35:35am

Joe Arpaio
Donald Trump
Bobby Jindal
Ken Bennett
Kris Kobach

Mitt Romney could end this farce in three seconds by reiterating that Obama is a citizen by natural birth. The fucking end.

He can't. He won't. Because his candidacy relies on bigots with a subterranean grasp of civics.

369 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:35:38am

re: #367 darthstar

You do realize that 'priss' is a term used to describe a girl who's being a total dick, right? I think you meant to say 'prude'...

fine.

370 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:37:17am
371 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:37:20am

re: #368 dragonath

Joe Arpaio
Donald Trump
Bobby Jindal
Ken Bennett
Kris Kobach

Mitt Romney could end this farce in three seconds by reiterating that Obama is a citizen by natural birth. The fucking end.

He can't. He won't. Because his candidacy relies on bigots with a subterranean grasp of civics.

Well that and he's a political coward.

372 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:37:59am

re: #369 Dark_Falcon

fine.

No need to be a priss.

373 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:39:29am

re: #370 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Another day, another moment of Romney being a patronizing dick. Just one full more day of this I hope and then hopefully we hardly have to hear from him again unless we're paying to hear him speak.

374 Lidane  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:40:14am

re: #371 HappyWarrior

Well that and he's a political coward.

Mitt's just a flat out coward.

Protesting in favor of the Vietnam draft then running and hiding in a French castle says everything you need to know about Mitt Romney. The rest is details.

375 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:41:08am

re: #362 darthstar

Shouldn't that be Rick Scott?

376 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:42:02am

re: #374 Lidane

Mitt's just a flat out coward.

Protesting in favor of the Vietnam draft then running and hiding in a French castle says everything you need to know about Mitt Romney. The rest is details.

True that. Takes a brave man to do that.// I'm sick of him. Sick of him lying his ass off because he has nothing of real substance to offer.

377 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:42:13am

re: #375 Joanne

Shouldn't that be Rick Scott?

Interchangeable dickhead parts...Scott Walker...Rick Scott..Scott Brown...

378 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:42:40am

Wow...that guy in the brown pants has a huge...balloon.

379 nemus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:43:04am

re: #373 HappyWarrior

Another day, another moment of Romney being a patronizing dick. Just one full more day of this I hope and then hopefully we hardly have to hear from him again unless we're paying to hear him speak.

Oh don't worry - I truly feel that as of November 7th you won't hear pretty much anything from Romney for a LONG time. I am curious to see what the GOP does with him / his image, though - does he become persona non grata? Also - what does Paul Ryan do..

380 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:43:29am

re: #375 Joanne

Shouldn't that be Rick Scott?

Heh...you're right. Shit.

381 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:44:39am

re: #361 Dark_Falcon

And I hammer them as best as a man may where ever I encounter them.

Yeah, you sure hammered Mitt Romney by voting for him.

No, wait, the opposite.

382 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:45:50am

re: #375 Joanne

Shouldn't that be Rick Scott?

Thanks for the catch...fixed.

383 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:47:47am

re: #382 darthstar

Thanks for the catch...fixed.

[Embedded content]

I was gonna mention it but I was hoping they were gonna take away your "I hate Republicans" membership card.
/////

384 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:48:16am

re: #370 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Obama said "Voting is the best revenge." Whatever the context, that's aline that practically begs to be run back on an adversary.

385 GeneJockey  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:49:26am

re: #343 Dark_Falcon

No, I was sleeping for a few hours. My sleep rhythm was seriously out of whack last night.

You got a whole extra hour, and you wasted it. Typical Conservative.

Give them a surplus, they turn it into a deficit.

Give them peace, they start a war.

Give them a healthy economy, they turn it into a smoking crater.

Give them an extra hour to sleep, and they stay up all night.

386 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:50:57am

re: #378 darthstar

Wow...that guy in the brown pants has a huge...balloon.

[Embedded content]

Okay...needed to make it auto-visible.

387 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:51:11am

re: #370 darthstar

Out of context like You Didn't Build That. Lies, subterfuge, obfuscate, and lie some more. No policy positions at all (each has so many multiple choices no one knows what he stands for or against). Honestly I'm sick of looking at him. He embodies everything wrong in politics.

388 makeitstopghazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:51:28am

I meant to post this yesterday - a very long but very good read from Rick Perlstein - 'The Long Con.' It traces the blatant Republican lying we're seeing now back to the beginnings of Viguirie's direct mail campaigns.

Spoiler: It's always been all about fleecing the rubes.

There’s a lot going on with Romney’s lying, not all of it related to his conservative identity; he was making things up as a habit, after all, back when he was a Massachusetts moderate. To a certain extent, Romney’s lies are explicable in just the way a lot of pundits are explaining them. When you’ve been all over the map ideologically, and you’re selling yourself to a party now built on extremist ideological purity, it takes a lot of tale-telling to cover your back. But that doesn’t explain one overlooked proviso: these lies are as transparent to his Republican colleagues as they are to any other sentient being. Nor does it account for a still more curious fact—for all the objections that conservatives have aired over Romney’s suspect purity in these last months, not one prominent conservative has made Romney’s dishonesty part of the brief against him.

It’s time, in other words, to consider whether Romney’s fluidity with the truth is, in fact, a feature and not a bug: a constituent part of his appeal to conservatives. The point here is not just that he lies when he says conservative things, even if he believes something different in his heart of hearts—but that lying is what makes you sound the way a conservative is supposed to sound, in pretty much the same way that curlicuing all around the note makes you sound like a contestant on American Idol is supposed to sound.

In part the New York Times had it right, for as much as it’s worth: Romney’s prevarications are evidence of simple political hucksterism—“short, utterly false sound bites,” repeated “so often that millions of Americans believe them to be the truth.” But the Times misses the bigger picture. Each constituent lie is an instance pointing to a larger, elaborately constructed “truth,” the one central to the right-wing appeal for generations: that liberalism is a species of madness—an esoteric cult of out-of-touch, Europe-besotted ivory tower elites—and conservatism is the creed of regular Americans and vouchsafes the eternal prosperity, security, and moral excellence of God’s chosen nation, which was doing just fine before Bolsheviks started gumming up the works.

A Romney lie in this vein is a pure Ronald Reagan imitation—as in this utterance from 2007: “In France,” Romney announced on the campaign trail, “I’m told that marriage is now frequently contracted in seven-year terms where either party may move on when their term is up.” And just as Reagan was found to be reciting film dialogue and jump-cutting anecdotes from his on-screen career into his pseudobiographical reminiscences on the stump, so it turns out that Romney picked up the marriage canard from the Homecoming Saga, a science fiction series written by Mormon author Orson Scott Card. (Another reason for students of Romney’s intellectual development to queasily recall that he told interviewers during that same 2008 presidential run that his favorite work of fiction was Battlefield Earth, the sci-fi opus by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, a consummate shakedown artist in his own right.)

Either deliberately or through some Reaganesque slip of the unconscious, Romney’s stump confabulations worked the same way that those legendary Viguerie direct-mail appeals did: since reality is never Manichean enough, fables have to do the requisite ideological heavy lifting—to frighten the target audience to do the fabulists’ will. That’s the logic of the pitch for the quivering conservative masses.

389 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:51:29am

re: #355 Dark_Falcon

I said it the wrong way. I was trying to point out that someone slurring Puerto Ricans would be slurring Cubans as well and that would mean they would be slurring one and soon to be two Republican senators. I was trying to point out why bigotry isn't a good idea. If it came out wrong, I'm sorry.

And I think this paragraph describes your myopic view of American politics perfectly. It shouldn't give one pause to spread their bigotry because one of their number is a Republican. It should give them pause because they are AMERICANS first and foremost.

Most people don't identify themselves through their political party. Perhaps if more of your number had a greater grasp of civics rather than loyalty, this country would be a better place.

390 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:51:40am

re: #385 GeneJockey

GAZE

391 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:51:43am

re: #379 nemus

Oh don't worry - I truly feel that as of November 7th you won't hear pretty much anything from Romney for a LONG time. I am curious to see what the GOP does with him / his image, though - does he become persona non grata? Also - what does Paul Ryan do..

I don't know what they'll do with him but I totally expect him to make the big bucks from the paid public speaker business. Nothing wrong with that of course but it's going to be funny to see him lining his pockets more while he claims that the economy is in taters.

392 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:51:47am

The legal fight for Ohio's votes is already here and here to stay.

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Voter advocates are criticizing an order by Ohio's elections chief dealing with the casting of provisional ballots. Advocates are saying on Saturday that the order by Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted late Friday wrongly puts the burden of recording the form of ID used on a provisional ballot on voters, not pollworkers ....
........
Columbus Dispatch: "The bottom line is that (Secretary of State Jon Husted) designed a form that violates Ohio law by improperly shifting to voters the poll workers' information-recording responsibilities regarding ID to voters, and then he wants to trash votes where there is a problem with the form on the section he misassigned to voters," said Cleveland attorney Subodh Chandra, who filed the motion ....
[Link: www.dispatch.com...]

393 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:52:08am

re: #383 Cannadian Club Akbar

I was gonna mention it but I was hoping they were gonna take away your "I hate Republicans" membership card.
/////

I don't hate all Republicans. I love my parents.

394 ninja cat  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:54:39am

re: #379 nemus

I think he'll go the W route and just disappear. I don't see any rabid passion he inspires in any of the people that will vote for him, other than he's not Obama. Nor do I see him getting behind any cause ala the Clinton Global Initiative because he doesn't actually give a damn. There's not much of a selling point of a twice failed candidate.

Ryan. Where is he, seriously? He's been disappeared.

395 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:54:49am

re: #392 jaunte

The legal fight for Ohio's votes is already here and here to stay.

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Voter advocates are criticizing an order by Ohio's elections chief dealing with the casting of provisional ballots. Advocates are saying on Saturday that the order by Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted late Friday wrongly puts the burden of recording the form of ID used on a provisional ballot on voters, not pollworkers ....
........
Columbus Dispatch: "The bottom line is that (Secretary of State Jon Husted) designed a form that violates Ohio law by improperly shifting to voters the poll workers' information-recording responsibilities regarding ID to voters, and then he wants to trash votes where there is a problem with the form on the section he misassigned to voters," said Cleveland attorney Subodh Chandra, who filed the motion ....
[Link: www.dispatch.com...]

What the fuck is wrong with Husted? By any means necessary I guess huh. Hope he has egg on his face when Obama wins pretty big in Ohio and he looks like an idiot for wasting his time.

396 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:55:21am

re: #389 dragonath

And I think this paragraph describes your myopic view of American politics perfectly. It shouldn't give one pause to spread their bigotry because one of their number is a Republican. It should give them pause because they are AMERICANS first and foremost.

Most people don't identify themselves through their political party. Perhaps if more of your number had a greater grasp of civics rather than loyalty, this country would be a better place.

Have a care, Dragonath. I understand that portion I bolded as well as you do. But I didn't explain all the details in a effort to keep my post shorter and clearer. A post that explained my views out in detail would have been much longer and less readable.

397 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:55:54am

re: #384 Dark_Falcon

Obama said "Voting is the best revenge." Whatever the context, that's aline that practically begs to be run back on an adversary.

It can and it is fair game by the current standards of US politicking. But it is being spun to imply that Angry Black Men should take revenge on successful white people, and that is the ugly subtext here.

398 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:56:07am

Florida Early Voting, Cont'd: The Last of the Last-Minute

In the middle of the night last night, the Florida Democratic party went into federal court to extend the state's early-voting period.
.........
...The suit should be seen especially as a precursor to the national legal apocalypse that's likely to ensue in the wake of a close election on Tuesday. It may be the end of this particular fight, but this is just the beginning.

399 Lidane  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:56:33am

re: #384 Dark_Falcon

Obama said "Voting is the best revenge." Whatever the context, that's aline that practically begs to be run back on an adversary.

Sure, as soon as someone explains how encouraging voting as the best revenge is a bad thing.

The RWNJ freakout over that line is just a bunch of pathetic, stupid derp.

400 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:56:46am

re: #384 Dark_Falcon

Obama said "Voting is the best revenge." Whatever the context, that's aline that practically begs to be run back on an adversary.

And Romney's just upset and jealous that he didn't think of it first. It would have been a major campaign slogan if one of those highly paid advisors of his had just thought of saying, in one of their several brainstorming sessions, "Why don't we frame the election as an act of vengeance against Obama's policies?" There would be posters and buttons with a check-box with Obama's picture in it. It's a simple, motivating statement. Completely devoid of negativity.

401 GeneJockey  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:57:00am

re: #390 Dark_Falcon

GAZE

What do you have against gaze?

402 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:58:07am

re: #394 ninja cat

I think he'll go the W route and just disappear. I don't see any rabid passion he inspires in any of the people that will vote for him, other than he's not Obama. Nor do I see him getting behind any cause ala the Clinton Global Initiative because he doesn't actually give a damn. There's not much of a selling point of a twice failed candidate.

Ryan. Where is he, seriously? He's been disappeared.

Ryan's watching his congressional race with a serious case of butt-pucker. If he loses that, then the Ayn Rand economic policies of his dreams all go up in smoke.

403 ninja cat  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 7:59:31am

re: #384 Dark_Falcon

Only a desperate campaign would find that begging.

404 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:00:44am

re: #402 darthstar

Ryan's watching his congressional race with a serious case of butt-pucker. If he loses that, then the Ayn Rand economic policies of his dreams all go up in smoke.

I don't see him losing that but I bet you it will be more competitive than it's been for him in the past and he will be targeted heavily especially if Obama wins his district which I believe he did in 2008 in a couple years. Honestly, I think Ryan deep down knows his appeal is pretty limited. He's been in Congress for a while now and is still a young guy and yet balked at the chance to run for governor and senator in 2010- two seats that fellow Republicans Walker and the guy who beat Feingold won.

405 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:01:17am

re: #396 Dark_Falcon

Then cast aside this party bullshit. Please.

406 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:02:46am

re: #398 jaunte

Florida Early Voting, Cont'd: The Last of the Last-Minute

For the record, Illinois does not allow early voting the Sunday before election day either. So for Florida to do so is not in and of itself an act of disenfranchisement.

407 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:03:50am

re: #403 ninja cat

Only a desperate campaign would find that begging.

They act like it was the centerpiece of his message. And Romney's delivery when he is trying to sound convincing (the rising timber in his voice) betrays it for the desperate grasp that it is. "We should be voting for love of country!" he squeaks, like those annoying kids in holiday shows making an appeal to our sense of decency and generosity.

408 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:05:29am

re: #379 nemus

Oh don't worry - I truly feel that as of November 7th you won't hear pretty much anything from Romney for a LONG time. I am curious to see what the GOP does with him / his image, though - does he become persona non grata? Also - what does Paul Ryan do..

If we're really, really lucky, Ryan loses under Romney and also loses his house seat to Zerban. Then he can go to K Street officially and not under the guise of an elected official.

409 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:06:24am
410 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:06:42am

Of course, if Obama had let the boo birds fly then Romney or one of his surrogates would complain that Obama and his supporters are unruly and hateful. Romney meanwhile can be mush-mouthed when he's dealing with birthers because he's different, he's Mitt fucking Romney and don't you forget that.

411 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:07:05am
412 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:07:26am

re: #390 Dark_Falcon

GAZE

Yeah, tough to gaze in that mirror.

413 sagehen  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:07:42am

re: #384 Dark_Falcon

Obama said "Voting is the best revenge." Whatever the context, that's aline that practically begs to be run back on an adversary.

When people spend countless hours of effort twisting laws, writing new laws, and sometimes breaking laws, to try to keep you from voting... then yes, voting is the best revenge.

Unless you'd prefer they resort to 2nd Amendment solutions?

414 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:09:40am

ORLANDO, Fla. — A judge has ordered Orange County to open up early voting for four more hours.
[Link: www.palmbeachpost.com...]

415 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:10:00am

re: #414 jaunte

ORLANDO, Fla. — A judge has ordered Orange County to open up early voting for four more hours.
[Link: www.palmbeachpost.com...]

Tyrants in robes.//

416 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:11:15am

Fucking Rick Scott should just be lucky he's not in jail but no he shows the people of his state contempt for daring to take advantage of what's in their right as a citizen.

417 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:11:29am

re: #391 HappyWarrior

I don't know what they'll do with him but I totally expect him to make the big bucks from the paid public speaker business. Nothing wrong with that of course but it's going to be funny to see him lining his pockets more while he claims that the economy is in taters.

Ah, yes, speaking engagements...that $300,000 in pocket change he spoke of.

418 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:12:09am

re: #414 jaunte

I've lived in Winter Park. And in Palm Beach County on Singer Island.

419 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:14:19am

re: #417 Joanne

Ah, yes, speaking engagements...that $300,000 in pocket change he spoke of.

Yeah that's what he was doing pretty much after McCain beat him and before he formally declared. It was part of his "I'm unemployed too" schtick. Shit, if it only we all could make good money giving speeches telling people what they want to hear.

420 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:14:29am

re: #370 darthstar

Reposting to share this from the comments:

Obama used a variation of what is known as a figure of speech, for the record when you say 'I could eat a horse' there is no need for Peta to get outraged and saying there are plenty more fish in the sea when dissapointerd in love doesn't mean you are a piscophiliac or fishlover.

421 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:14:45am

re: #394 ninja cat

Ryan is hiding from the press (as is Romney) for fear he'll display his lack of policy understanding again. Collectively, they have a policy IQ of about 75.

Real tough guys, those two. Courageous to the core. /

422 KronoGhazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:16:15am

re: #390 Dark_Falcon

GAZE

Irony.

423 gwangung  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:17:37am

re: #421 Joanne

Ryan is hiding from the press (as is Romney) for fear he'll display his lack of policy understanding again. Collectively, they have a policy IQ of about 75.

Real tough guys, those two. Courageous to the core. /

Well, we have apologists here saying that this is "smart".

Whatever.

424 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:18:28am

Obama - 85.1%
Romney - 14.9%

425 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:19:00am

re: #424 Varek Raith

Obama - 85.1%
Romney - 14.9%

538?

426 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:19:27am

Miami-Dade to allow voters to request and cast absentee ballots in person Sunday

...A spokeswoman said the department made the decision Saturday night after seeing such long early voting lines — the last voter wasn’t checked in until 1 a.m. Voters in line at 7 p.m. Saturday were allowed to vote.

A loophole in a state law that eliminated early voting the Sunday before Election Day allows elections supervisors to accept in-person absentee ballots through 7 p.m. Tuesday.

427 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:20:13am

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

For the record, Illinois does not allow early voting the Sunday before election day either. So for Florida to do so is not in and of itself an act of disenfranchisement.

FL isn't IL. FL has had early voting for years. Its been shown that black bote heavily The Sunday before election day. Blacks tend to vote Dem. That's unacceptable, hence no more today voting. THAT'S why.

428 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:20:19am

And on another topic, I just love it when a thief gets prison.
Camcording Movie Pirates Sentenced to Prison

429 sagehen  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:21:00am

re: #424 Varek Raith

Obama - 85.1%
Romney - 14.9%

Coincidentally, that's the expected vote tally in my zip code. (and still and R improvement over last time, when it was Obama 86% to Mcain's 14%).

430 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:22:31am

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

For the record, Illinois does not allow early voting the Sunday before election day either. So for Florida to do so is not in and of itself an act of disenfranchisement.

It really isn't fair for people to lose their early voting privileges because there was a bomb scare of all things.

431 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:23:15am

Miami-Dade has decided to extend early voting without seeking Rick Scott's permission.

[Link: my.barackobama.com...]

432 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:24:23am

Eleventh-Hour GOP Voter Suppression Could Swing Ohio

...In an order to election officials on Friday night, Husted shifted the burden of correctly filling out a provisional ballot from the poll worker to the voter, specifically pertaining to the recording of a voter’s form of ID, which was previously the poll worker’s responsibility.
.....
In 2008, 40,000 of the 207,000 provisional ballots cast in Ohio were rejected. The majority of the state’s provisional ballots were cast in Ohio’s five largest counties, which are strongly Democratic. Moreover, provisional ballots are more likely to be cast by poorer and more transient residents of the state, who are also less likely to vote Republican.

433 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:26:03am

re: #432 jaunte

Eleventh-Hour GOP Voter Suppression Could Swing Ohio

Yeah, nothing suspicious about that at all. Would be nice if Husted just came out and said, I'm doing everything n my power to prevent a Democratic victory in my state. It would be honest at least.

434 gwangung  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:27:03am

re: #433 HappyWarrior

Yeah, nothing suspicious about that at all. Would be nice if Husted just came out and said, I'm doing everything n my power to prevent a Democratic victory in my state. It would be honest at least.

He can't be honest; he's a Republican.

435 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:27:17am

re: #434 gwangung

He can't be honest; he's a Republican.

A ha.

436 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:28:25am

re: #433 HappyWarrior

I think giving up on encouraging the vote and relying on game playing is the beginning of the end for the Republican party

437 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:29:20am

I sincerely hope that Husted gets hit by a bus

438 darthstar  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:29:37am
439 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:30:45am

States can decide on any sort of election rules for anything below state level, but I think it is time for the Federal government to set and maintain standards, procedures and policies for national elections. This would pull the rug out from under petty dickheads like Jon Husted.

440 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:30:50am

re: #436 jaunte

I think giving up on encouraging the vote and relying on game playing is the beginning of the end for the Republican party

It really is pathetic.

441 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:32:15am

Ohio Revised Code 3505.181 (B)(6):

"(6) If, at the time that an individual casts a provisional ballot, the individual provides identification in the form of a current and valid photo identification, a military identification , or a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document, other than a notice of an election mailed by a board of elections under section 3501.19 of the Revised Code or a notice of voter registration mailed by a board of elections under section 3503.19 of the Revised Code, that shows the individual’s name and current address, or provides the last four digits of the individual’s social security number, or executes an affirmation that the elector does not have any of those forms of identification or the last four digits of the individual’s social security number because the individual does not have a social security number, or declines to execute such an affirmation, the appropriate local election official shall record the type of identification provided, the social security number information, the fact that the affirmation was executed, or the fact that the individual declined to execute such an affirmation and include that information with the transmission of the ballot or voter or address information under division (B)(3) of this section. If the individual declines to execute such an affirmation, the appropriate local election official shall record the individual’s name and include that information with the transmission of the ballot under division (B)(3) of this section."

"The Appropriate Election Official" is not the voter.

442 garhighway  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:34:29am

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

For the record, Illinois does not allow early voting the Sunday before election day either. So for Florida to do so is not in and of itself an act of disenfranchisement.

Whatever you do, keep ignoring context.

443 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:35:00am

re: #196 HappyWarrior

No argument here. I just found it amusing that Phyillis's son thinks this is the most creative and innovative policy ever thought of by an American president. The Reagan circle jerk squad acts like he's the only president to have done great things. Makes me queasy thinking about it.

Defence is always more difficult than offence, simply because you have to be prepared for everything while offence just has to be unpredictable.

444 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:35:06am

re: #436 jaunte

I think giving up on encouraging the vote and relying on game playing is the beginning of the end for the Republican party


MoJo's Guide to Voter Suppression and Poll Problems

445 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:35:52am

I think I'd better take my leave from here for a time. We're right near the election and emotions are running high. So I'm going to sign off until at least Wednesday, and more likely Thursday. I'm not doing this to be an ass, I'm doing it because right now my presence here isn't constructive. So you folks have a safe few days and I'll be back later in the week.

446 garhighway  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:36:19am

re: #427 Joanne

FL isn't IL. FL has had early voting for years. Its been shown that black bote heavily The Sunday before election day. Blacks tend to vote Dem. That's unacceptable, hence no more today voting. THAT'S why.

Exactly. A lot of black voters would carpool to the polling place from church.

You can see why the GOP would frown on that.

447 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:36:52am

10 Dirty Ways to Swing an Election

Early voting can cut down on long lines on Election Day and allow Americans who might not be able to get to the polls—maybe because they have jobs—cast a ballot. That sounds like a good thing, right? Well, not to the governments of Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee, and West Virginia, all of which cut down on early voting for 2012. Except for West Virginia, all of these states have GOP governors, and as Ari Berman noted in a piece for Rolling Stone, Ohio and Florida specifically "banned voting on the Sunday before the election—a day when black churches historically mobilize their constituents."
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

448 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:39:04am

looks like we need another republican around here to hoot and holler at.

buck?

449 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:41:33am
450 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:42:44am

re: #448 SpaceJesus

looks like we need another republican around here to hoot and holler at.

buck?

He hasn't poked his nose in here for a while.

Maybe he's busy moving to Alberta to be with the rest of the red-necks.

(Sorry, I'm being driven nuts by all the giant lifted trucks invading my city from Alberta)

451 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:43:00am

re: #425 darthstar

538?

Yep.

452 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:44:08am

re: #445 Dark_Falcon

Don't always agree with you
Many times I just look at your posts and go "hmmpphh"

But I think you're making a wise decision here

453 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:44:12am

[Link: www.davidmixner.com...]


Marriage equality at 52% in MN, WA, ME

454 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:45:38am

re: #448 SpaceJesus

looks like we need another republican around here to hoot and holler at.

buck?

heh,,, me, i'd prefer civil discourse. but,, however you get your jollies!

455 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:45:50am

re: #450 b_sharp

i always forget that he is canadian. why the hell is he so interested in u.s. right-wing politics? that would be like me taking a serious interest in the bloc quebecois or something

456 KronoGhazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:48:41am

re: #445 Dark_Falcon

I think I'd better take my leave from here for a time. We're right near the election and emotions are running high. So I'm going to sign off until at least Wednesday, and more likely Thursday. I'm not doing this to be an ass, I'm doing it because right now my presence here isn't constructive. So you folks have a safe few days and I'll be back later in the week.

This is a you problem, not an us problem. Despite your polite and friendly demeanor the dissonance in voting for a backwards ass ideology is irreconcilable.

The 'emotions' you speak of are a reasonable response.

457 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:49:42am

re: #445 Dark_Falcon

I think I'd better take my leave from here for a time. We're right near the election and emotions are running high. So I'm going to sign off until at least Wednesday, and more likely Thursday. I'm not doing this to be an ass, I'm doing it because right now my presence here isn't constructive. So you folks have a safe few days and I'll be back later in the week.

When you want a good laugh just look up the Barr Sheehan blogs.

[Link: www.roseanneworld.com...]

See you Wednesday.

458 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:49:52am

re: #455 SpaceJesus

i always forget that he is canadian. why the hell is he so interested in u.s. right-wing politics? that would be like me taking a serious interest in the bloc quebecois or something

You have no idea how the US political scene affects Canada. Canada is the US's largest trading partner so what we do can affect you, but the US, as a trading partner dwarfs all other trading partners from the Canadian side.

You elephant.
We gerbil.

You roll over in your sleep.
We get flattened.

459 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:51:28am

re: #458 b_sharp

You have no idea how the US political scene affects Canada. Canada is the US's largest trading partner so what we do can affect you, but the US, as a trading partner dwarfs all other trading partners from the Canadian side.

You elephant.
We gerbil.

You roll over in your sleep.
We get flattened.

As long as you don't crawl up our ass, everything is hunkey dorey!!!

/

460 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:52:03am

Well, Dark, you wouldn't piss people off if you didn't repeat the same falsehoods time and again after being corrected.

That tends to piss people off.

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed your early voting privileges, even though you would see the same right curtailed for others.

461 garhighway  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:53:13am

Just checked Intrade. They have it at 66% chance of an Obama win.

462 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:54:44am

re: #433 HappyWarrior

Yeah, nothing suspicious about that at all. Would be nice if Husted just came out and said, I'm doing everything n my power to prevent a Democratic victory in my state. It would be honest at least.

Since Republican's are anything but honest (anywhere), don't hold your breath. Blue lips are not a good look.

463 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:54:54am

New Nate Silver article up. Just more of that ninny "science and logic" stuff that we all know is for queers and nerds.

464 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:56:26am

re: #462 Joanne

Since Republican's are anything but honest (anywhere), don't hold your breath. Blue lips are not a good look.

Ha true.

465 efuseakay  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:57:59am

Freepers are freaking out (imagine that) about early voting being extended in OC Florida.

466 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:59:21am

Obama draws a 14k crowd outside in NH right now

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

467 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:00:47am

re: #466 SpaceJesus

Obama draws a 14k crowd outside in NH right now

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

But his supporters have no enthusiasm.//

468 garhighway  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:02:54am

Princeton Election Consortium (kinda like 538) has it 98% chance of an Obama victory.

[Link: election.princeton.edu...]

469 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:04:17am

re: #466 SpaceJesus

It's really french canucks and cheese eating vermonters

470 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:07:57am

re: #459 sattv4u2

As long as you don't crawl up our ass, everything is hunkey dorey!!!

/

We try.

471 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:09:28am

re: #455 SpaceJesus

i always forget that he is canadian. why the hell is he so interested in u.s. right-wing politics? that would be like me taking a serious interest in the bloc quebecois or something

My husband is Canadian and very interested in American politics. Our politics affects their economy as much as the rest of the world, only moreso, because we are their biggest trading partner. He owns his own business and when the American economy tanks his biz takes a hit. It was very touch and go there for a while.

I don't always agree with my husband, nor he me, but we always look at each others insight, and we've both changed each others minds.

472 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:10:23am

Have any of you see Cloud Atlas? I'm off top it this afternoon. Almost 3 hours long.

473 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:10:28am

Hmmmm,,,,

"Show Users" only shows 1 user,, Charles


Lessee,, I'm pretty sure i'm here,,, b_sharp responded to me so I'm pretty sure he's here !!

474 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:11:19am

re: #473 sattv4u2

Hmmmm,,,,

"Show Users" only shows 1 user,, Charles

Lessee,, I'm pretty sure i'm here,,, b_sharp responded to me so I'm pretty sure he's here !!

I'm never really here. I'm just a ghost of a lizard.

475 gwangung  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:11:27am

re: #465 efuseakay

Freepers are freaking out (imagine that) about early voting being extended in OC Florida.

Isn't it kinda telling that this is a matter of concern for right wingers?

476 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:11:41am

re: #459 sattv4u2

As long as you don't crawl up our ass, everything is hunkey dorey!!!

/

He said gerbil, not hyena.

[Link: www.bharatchannels.com...]

477 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:11:46am

re: #471 Joanne

it just kind of unnerves me thinking of canadians peering across our border at our affairs with their beedy little canadian eyes.

jk

478 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:11:55am

re: #472 Daniel Ballard

Have any of you see Cloud Atlas? I'm off top it this afternoon. Almost 3 hours long.

Retired couple across the street from me raved about it. They average 3 movies every two weeks and they've never steered me wrong with their "reviews"

I did see Flight on Friday

Very good (a tad predictable,,, but great acting)

479 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:12:05am

re: #472 Daniel Ballard

Have any of you see Cloud Atlas? I'm off top it this afternoon. Almost 3 hours long.

I've seen mixed reviews for it. Most of the complaints is that the story is confusing and muddled but that might just mean it's not a stupid generic comic book plot.

480 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:12:33am

re: #477 SpaceJesus

it just kind of unnerves me thinking of canadians peering across our border at our affairs with their beedy little canadian eyes.

jk

I saw what you did there.

481 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:14:05am

Steven Harper has Fox News Hair

482 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:15:03am

re: #477 SpaceJesus

it just kind of unnerves me thinking of canadians peering across our border at our affairs with their beedy little canadian eyes.

jk

It's just like Mr Wilson. (Home Improvement)

483 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:15:10am

re: #481 dragonath

Steven Harper has Fox News Hair

Yup. It goes with the Fox News brain.

484 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:15:11am

re: #479 Killgore Trout

I've seen mixed reviews for it. Most of the complaints is that the story is confusing and muddled but that might just mean it's not a stupid generic comic book plot.

I'll more likely than not be skipping it

Just not my genre as far as movies go, regardless of the rave review the neighbors gave

485 efuseakay  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:15:27am

re: #475 gwangung

Isn't it kinda telling that this is a matter of concern for right wingers?

Damn them for letting more people vote!!!!!!

486 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:16:52am

re: #479 Killgore Trout
Un adaptable was one theory. But two people I know who love cinema have gone twice.

487 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:16:54am

re: #482 Daniel Ballard

It's just like Mr Wilson. (Home Improvement)

Tall fences make for good neighbors!

488 blueraven  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:17:31am

re: #477 SpaceJesus

it just kind of unnerves me thinking of canadians peering across our border at our affairs with their beedy little canadian eyes.

jk

Buck is an outlier

Nine in Ten (90%) Canadians Believe Barack Obama Will Retain Presidency and 86% Would Vote for Obama If They Could

489 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:18:32am

re: #480 b_sharp

I saw what you did there.

With your beady little eyes? /

490 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:20:07am

I didn't sleep as well last night but over all I'm calming down and a little less paranoid after the break in the other night. Seriously considering a lot of different security options. The one that would solve most problems is a good dog. Not a vicious attack beast but something that would bark when a stranger starts snooping around the yard. But I'm not a dog person and they take a lot of care, attention, walks, exercise etc. and I'm not sure how the cats will accept a new addition.
I'm also a little concerned about over doing security and attracting more attention. A new alarm system and blind system closing off the greenhouse every night might make thieves think I'm hiding a pot growing operation and give them more motivation to break in. As creepy as it is it might be better to let them look in and see I don't have anythng that interests them.

491 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:21:23am

re: #484 sattv4u2

I'll more likely than not be skipping it

Just not my genre as far as movies go, regardless of the rave review the neighbors gave

I'll probably skip it too but I just don't watch movies much anymore.

492 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:22:59am

re: #490 Killgore Trout

You might post a sign:
"Don't waste your time breaking in, there's no pot growing inside."

493 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:24:09am

Just things growing in pots...!

494 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:25:46am

re: #492 jaunte

You might post a sign:
"Don't waste your time breaking in, there's no pot growing inside."

Not a bad idea. I looked into the Oregon legal pot program last year thinking I could grow legally and make some money. One of the reasons I decided against it was that you have to post your permit to be clearly visible. It's just an invitation for thieves.

495 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:26:32am

re: #473 sattv4u2

Hmmmm,,,,

"Show Users" only shows 1 user,, Charles

Lessee,, I'm pretty sure i'm here,,, b_sharp responded to me so I'm pretty sure he's here !!

We are all Charles' socks. He just does it to tick off the stalkers.

496 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:28:46am

re: #490 Killgore Trout

I didn't sleep as well last night but over all I'm calming down and a little less paranoid after the break in the other night. Seriously considering a lot of different security options. The one that would solve most problems is a good dog. Not a vicious attack beast but something that would bark when a stranger starts snooping around the yard. But I'm not a dog person and they take a lot of care, attention, walks, exercise etc. and I'm not sure how the cats will accept a new addition.
I'm also a little concerned about over doing security and attracting more attention. A new alarm system and blind system closing off the greenhouse every night might make thieves think I'm hiding a pot growing operation and give them more motivation to break in. As creepy as it is it might be better to let them look in and see I don't have anythng that interests them.

I have six dogs and they are very rarely walked. We have a large fenced yard and with each other they run and run and run. Get a nice retriever/sporting dog (lab, setter, pointer) and play ball with him/her and you're good. Just, please, do NOT put a pooch on a chain in your yard. If you don't want a fence, get an invisible fence. They are easy to train (downside, people can walk in and steal your dog).

Check breeds, though. You don't want, say, a Springer Spaniel because they are very hyper throughout their lives (my Visla is old and still keeps up with the pup). I would look into a rescue of the breed you choose and get a 3+ year old. Probably be mostly housebroken and you won't get puppy chewing.

Rescue is the best. They will vet the dog and get you what you are looking for (a friend, companion, and barking presence, age, housebroken, etc.) And you will give a dog a home...and I tell you, that dog will worship you forever. My last rescue was the saddest, most pathetic little guy. Now he is full of life and adores me (all of us, actually). He is such a great little man. And at 15 lbs, he is a hell of a watchdog (his bark is more like a 40 pound dog which doesn't hurt).

497 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:29:10am

Also thinking back I found a pry bar in my hedge a few months ago and just thought some workman dropped it or something. A few weeks ago I found the greenhouse door open in the morning and thought I just had a few too many drinks and was careless. I suspect someone was planning the break in for months.

498 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:29:58am

re: #490 Killgore Trout

KT, this looks like a case to me where surprise is the really dangerous thing here. I'd put my money on keeping that from happening first. I take it that it's not easy for you to make it much physically harder to get in? In any case it's about you not your stuff. Anything that buys you time to do the right thing is really worthwhile.

499 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:32:19am

re: #497 Killgore Trout

Also thinking back I found a pry bar in my hedge a few months ago and just thought some workman dropped it or something. A few weeks ago I found the greenhouse door open in the morning and thought I just had a few too many drinks and was careless. I suspect someone was planning the break in for months.

Caution is good. Please don't paranoid yourself into knots. I am not saying if it is the case or not, but don't have tunnel-hindsight. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

It's scary as shit. I know from experience. You may want to talk with someone about it, too. Just because.

500 garhighway  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:33:59am

re: #498 Daniel Ballard

KT, this looks like a case to me where surprise is the really dangerous thing here. I'd put my money on keeping that from happening first. I take it that it's not easy for you to make it much physically harder to get in? In any case it's about you not your stuff. Anything that buys you time to do the right thing is really worthwhile.

Motion-sensitive floodlight?

501 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:38:45am

re: #500 garhighway

Motion-sensitive floodlight?

Motion sensitive police siren and flashing blue light

502 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:38:59am

re: #500 garhighway

Motion-sensitive floodlight?

That's on my list but I don't think those are very effective. So many false alarms with neighborhood critters and even just the breeze sets them off. I don't think thieves are bothered much by them.

503 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:39:47am

How is the day going all?

504 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:41:41am

re: #499 Joanne

Caution is good. Please don't paranoid yourself into knots. I am not saying if it is the case or not, but don't have tunnel-hindsight. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

It's scary as shit. I know from experience. You may want to talk with someone about it, too. Just because.

Yeah, that's why I'm not rushing out to buy a gun and a pitbull although I did catch myself googling the residential legality of razor wire the other night. I'll do the common sense stuff like alarm system, flood lights and locking my doors at night first and save the more creative solutions for later when I've calmed down more.

505 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:42:05am

{{{Kilgore}}}}

506 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:42:15am

re: #488 blueraven


canada and the u.s. should just become one country. we'd never have to worry about conservatives ever again.

507 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:42:24am

The Onion thinks Nate Silver is in trouble:

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

508 efuseakay  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:42:29am

Motion-sensitive drone strike!

509 Killgore Trout  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:43:05am

re: #505 Gretchen G.Tiger

{{{Kilgore}}}}

Thanks. Luckily the frogs are unbothered and chatting happily this morning.

510 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:43:08am

re: #504 Killgore Trout

Yeah, that's why I'm not rushing out to buy a gun and a pitbull although I did catch myself googling the residential legality of razor wire the other night. I'll do the common sense stuff like alarm system, flood lights and locking my doors at night first and save the more creative solutions for later when I've calmed down more.

Well, there are good reasons to adopt a rescue Pitt Bull. Mostly because you'll have a great friend, but you could use the break-in to rationalize it to a manly decision.

:)

511 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:43:38am

re: #507 Decatur Deb

That would be even funnier if they used the actual picture of the Unskewed Polls guy.

512 Flounder  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:44:25am

re: #490 Killgore Trout

I have had very good luck with Labradors, loyal, obedient and loyal. Get him/her at 8 weeks. Chocolates are dumb. No really, I have one and he is dumber than a box of hammers, but won't let me outta his sight. His nickname is 100 pounds of stupid. BBL, just my two pennies.

513 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:45:22am

One dog bathed
One to go (if I can find him,,, he hears the bathtub water running and he bolts!!)

514 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:46:27am

re: #512 Shropshire_Slasher

I have had very good luck with Labradors, loyal, obedient and loyal. Get him/her at 8 weeks. Chocolates are dumb. No really, I have one and he is dumber than a box of hammers, but won't let me outta his sight. His nickname is 100 pounds of stupid. BBL, just my two pennies.

Great Pyrs are very gentle, quiet and calm. They just wait among the sheep for wolves or bears, and then eat them.

Image: Great-Pyrenees.jpg

515 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:46:29am

re: #504 Killgore Trout

I doubt you're going to want to live with razor wire forever. It would make your house look like a prison - with you as the prisoner. I'd give that one some thought.

516 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:47:28am

re: #513 sattv4u2

One dog bathed
One to go (if I can find him,,, he hears the bathtub water running and he bolts!!)

I have 3 that have to be done, but my back hurts too much.

Bathing mine is like taking them to a spa, they have to be blow-dried and their coats need to be stripped, nails done, ears cleaned --the works.

517 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:48:26am

re: #512 Shropshire_Slasher

I have had very good luck with Labradors, loyal, obedient and loyal. Get him/her at 8 weeks. Chocolates are dumb. No really, I have one and he is dumber than a box of hammers, but won't let me outta his sight. His nickname is 100 pounds of stupid. BBL, just my two pennies.

heh

One of ours is named Einstein (a 14 lb terrier/ mutt/ mix) who is really smart

Our other is a pure West Highland Terrier (McDuff) We've had Westies before and each was very smart. McDuff, not so much. His nickname is McDoofus!

518 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:48:57am

re: #497 Killgore Trout

lots of thieves will prep a couple of months prior to big vacation holidays like thanksgiving and christmas, knowing that people will likely be gone during those times.

519 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:49:16am

re: #516 Gretchen G.Tiger

I have 3 that have to be done, but my back hurts too much.

Bathing mine is like taking them to a spa, they have to be blow-dried and their coats need to be stripped, nails done, ears cleaned --the works.

We take them to a groomer once every 5-6 weeks

This is just the between-the-groomer-visit-bath

520 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:49:28am

re: #509 Killgore Trout
Motion activated web cams-Maybe for a guy like you-The fact they record the local critters is a feature not a bug. You get to see who is out hunting.

521 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:49:56am

re: #514 Decatur Deb

Great Pyrs are very gentle, quiet and calm. They just wait among the sheep for wolves or bears, and then eat them.

Image: Great-Pyrenees.jpg

They shed a ton but my Dad's friend had one. Also had a Newfoundland who was the definition of a gentle giant.

522 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:50:31am

re: #506 SpaceJesus

canada and the u.s. should just become one country. we'd never have to worry about conservatives ever again.

You do know that that is what kept the US from continuing it's annexation plans for Canada? The southern warhawks, who were hot and heavy for another war, were told (by a Brit, Lord Elgin) that basically Canada was a bunch of liberals (meaning non-slave states at that time) and if they annexed Canada, all those bloody people from the great white north would not be in favor of slavery, and as they say, that was the end of that.

523 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:51:15am

re: #512 Shropshire_Slasher

I have had very good luck with Labradors, loyal, obedient and loyal. Get him/her at 8 weeks. Chocolates are dumb. No really, I have one and he is dumber than a box of hammers, but won't let me outta his sight. His nickname is 100 pounds of stupid. BBL, just my two pennies.

I've noticed with the Sporting Breeds, the better instincts they naturally have for their Sport --the dumber they are in everyother respect.

Hubby reports that Brat Puppy is becoming a dream of field dog. He still can't figure out to get off the bed when the rest of the dogs do when we come to bed. It's a ritual. We start messing with the covers, the dogs get off, wait, then when we have settled, they get back on and resettle themselves. Brat Puppy now 1.5 years just gives us a blank look when we tell him to GO. Other dogs are sitting on the sidelines waiting to be called back up.

524 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:51:45am

re: #510 Gretchen G.Tiger

Well, there are good reasons to adopt a rescue Pitt Bull. Mostly because you'll have a great friend, but you could use the break-in to rationalize it to a manly decision.

:)

Pitties are great if you know how to train. Otherwise, it is easy for them to take over. Pocket Pitties (35 lbs) are another option if you don't want a full sized beastie.

525 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:51:47am

re: #519 sattv4u2

We take them to a groomer once every 5-6 weeks

This is just the between-the-groomer-visit-bath

Can't afford the groomer with 3. Used to when I had only 1.

526 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:52:35am

re: #524 Joanne

Pitties are great if you know how to train. Otherwise, it is easy for them to take over. Pocket Pitties (35 lbs) are another option if you don't want a full sized beastie.

Three raised from puppyhood live behind me with different neighbors. They are the biggest babies!

527 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:52:45am

re: #513 sattv4u2

One dog bathed
One to go (if I can find him,,, he hears the bathtub water running and he bolts!!)

My one Irish setter used to flatten herself against the wall when the nail clippers came out. She tried her hardest to blend in with the paint. It was soooooooooooooo cute!

528 Obdicut  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:52:47am

Mutts are the best dogs because they're mutts.

529 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:53:12am

re: #522 Joanne

yeah, the southern slavery lovers wanted to annex cuba instead

530 danarchy  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:53:14am

re: #477 SpaceJesus

it just kind of unnerves me thinking of canadians peering across our border at our affairs with their beedy little canadian eyes.

jk

And don't forget the floppy heads...that's just freaky ;)

531 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:53:52am

re: #529 SpaceJesus

yeah, the southern slavery lovers wanted to annex cuba instead

Didn't they want Mexico too?

532 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:54:31am

i close on my house in december, and i think i am gonna get a dog. a small one. not yappy tho. what kind of dogs fit that description?

533 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:54:41am

re: #477 SpaceJesus

it just kind of unnerves me thinking of canadians peering across our border at our affairs with their beedy little canadian eyes.

jk

Just think how the rest of the world thinks as we do the same thing to them.

534 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:54:53am

re: #516 Gretchen G.Tiger

I have 3 that have to be done, but my back hurts too much.

Bathing mine is like taking them to a spa, they have to be blow-dried and their coats need to be stripped, nails done, ears cleaned --the works.

We have six dogs and only one (the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, whom by the say is the biggest hunter of the bunch) is the only one that needs a bath more than once a year. And I think that is because she will dig a tunnel to get to a critter. She dug havlway under our shed and cam out looking black and tan instead of Blenheim (red and white). The others seem to self clean pretty well with an occasional brushing.

535 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:54:55am

re: #531 HappyWarrior

yup, and they got about half of it.

536 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:55:02am

re: #528 Obdicut

Mutts are the best dogs because they're mutts.

Our 'Pocket Pyr' is a rescue, probably about half Golden. Couldn't be a better dog. (Could be smarter.)

537 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:55:23am

re: #535 SpaceJesus

yup, and they got about half of it.

Yep, that's right.

538 Decatur Deb  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:55:25am

re: #532 SpaceJesus

i close on my house in december, and i think i am gonna get a dog. a small one. not yappy tho. what kind of dogs fit that description?

Stuffed.

539 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:55:25am

re: #532 SpaceJesus

i close on my house in december, and i think i am gonna get a dog. a small one. not yappy tho. what kind of dogs fit that description?

West Highland Terrier

540 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:55:56am

I've always had standard poodles due to allergies.

541 garhighway  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:57:06am

re: #502 Killgore Trout

That's on my list but I don't think those are very effective. So many false alarms with neighborhood critters and even just the breeze sets them off. I don't think thieves are bothered much by them.

Agree.

542 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:57:23am

re: #532 SpaceJesus

i close on my house in december, and i think i am gonna get a dog. a small one. not yappy tho. what kind of dogs fit that description?

Every little poo combination I've met has been great!. Those Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are great too --especially with kids, which can be dicy with little dogs.

People love their little dachsunds.

The Italian Greyhound is a great little dog, but will bolt if you open the door 3 inches. Very gentle and loving. I really like them a lot.

There is a little terrier that looks like a stuffed animal that is wonderful as well, lots of personality.

Remember, They'll only yap if you train them that it is OK to do so. Some have been bred to yap as alarm systems, the big dogs come when they yap a certain way.

543 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:58:28am

re: #523 Gretchen G.Tiger

I've noticed with the Sporting Breeds, the better instincts they naturally have for their Sport --the dumber they are in everyother respect.

Hubby reports that Brat Puppy is becoming a dream of field dog. He still can't figure out to get off the bed when the rest of the dogs do when we come to bed. It's a ritual. We start messing with the covers, the dogs get off, wait, then when we have settled, they get back on and resettle themselves. Brat Puppy now 1.5 years just gives us a blank look when we tell him to GO. Other dogs are sitting on the sidelines waiting to be called back up.

We have a Brittany (who is the anti-type...he is so aloof), who is so smart it's frightening. He can open doors with round door knobs. When we got the Visla (who is the dumbest, but most loveable dog ever), the Britt was so unhappy he would open a bedroom door, lead the Visla into it and then close the door so the poor Visla was stuck in the room. The Britt would also open the back door and lock the Visla out in the back yard.

If he was bigger, I would be frightened as I stole his owner (my husband) from him. He is Stewie and I am sure he dreams of seeing me dead.

544 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:58:38am

re: #536 Decatur Deb

Our 'Pocket Pyr' is a rescue, probably about half Golden. Couldn't be a better dog. (Could be smarter.)

Have had a dozen dogs living with us in the past 13 years (foster parents for most of them till they get adopted) All of them 'rescues" We ended up keeping the two we now have

545 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:58:40am

re: #542 Gretchen G.Tiger

Every little poo combination I've met has been great!. Those Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are great too --especially with kids, which can be dicy with little dogs.

People love their little dachsunds.

The Italian Greyhound is a great little dog, but will bolt if you open the door 3 inches. Very gentle and loving. I really like them a lot.

There is a little terrier that looks like a stuffed animal that is wonderful as well, lots of personality.

Remember, They'll only yap if you train them that it is OK to do so. Some have been bred to yap as alarm systems, the big dogs come when they yap a certain way.

Well, and a rescue. There are some really, really wonderful rescue's out there -puppies too!

546 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:58:49am

re: #539 sattv4u2

eh, no terriers. too much energy.

547 SpaceJesus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 9:59:45am

re: #542 Gretchen G.Tiger

yeah, i'm leaning towards wiener dogs and maybe corgis. i just looked up american eskimo dogs too.

i think dachshund it is.

548 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:00:00am

re: #543 Joanne

We have a Brittany (who is the anti-type...he is so aloof), who is so smart it's frightening. He can open doors with round door knobs. When we got the Visla (who is the dumbest, but most loveable dog ever), the Britt was so unhappy he would open a bedroom door, lead the Visla into it and then close the door so the poor Visla was stuck in the room. The Britt would also open the back door and lock the Visla out in the back yard.

If he was bigger, I would be frightened as I stole his owner (my husband) from him. He is Stewie and I am sure he dreams of seeing me dead.

Brittany's are way too much dog for me. Wicked smart and NO sense of shame or guilt.

549 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:00:02am

re: #546 SpaceJesus

eh, no terriers. too much energy.

Some, but not all

Cairns are the worst, Westies the calmest

550 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:00:19am

re: #526 Gretchen G.Tiger

Three raised from puppyhood live behind me with different neighbors. They are the biggest babies!

My friend rescues Pitts. She has six of them. Some of them are so damned cute, too. Big lumps of love. But they do need a big of a firmer hand. I got my friend a Pitt rescue and that boy is so spoiled. He could use a little bit more, uhm, guidance.

551 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:00:52am

re: #512 Shropshire_Slasher

I have had very good luck with Labradors, loyal, obedient and loyal. Get him/her at 8 weeks. Chocolates are dumb. No really, I have one and he is dumber than a box of hammers, but won't let me outta his sight. His nickname is 100 pounds of stupid. BBL, just my two pennies.

My family has been into German Shepherds for 50 years. Large, extremely intelligent, very loyal and they have a mythology associated with them (police dogs) that works well as a deterrent.

Pit bulls are also good dogs, not as bright as a Shepherd, but even more loyal and their mythology is an even better deterrent.

552 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:01:07am

re: #531 HappyWarrior

Didn't they want Mexico too?

Well, that would have saved all these anti-immigrant problems. :-)

553 danarchy  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:01:22am

re: #512 Shropshire_Slasher

I have had very good luck with Labradors, loyal, obedient and loyal. Get him/her at 8 weeks. Chocolates are dumb. No really, I have one and he is dumber than a box of hammers, but won't let me outta his sight. His nickname is 100 pounds of stupid. BBL, just my two pennies.

I have a Norwegian Elkhound and she is a fantastic early warning system. Sheds a lot, but couldn't ask for a better dog. I seam to recall KT lives out west in like washington or oregon or something? If I lived out that way I would look into a Karelian Bear Dog, I am partial to the spitz type dogs though.

KBD

554 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:01:45am

re: #514 Decatur Deb

Great Pyrs are very gentle, quiet and calm. They just wait among the sheep for wolves or bears, and then eat them.

Image: Great-Pyrenees.jpg

If I owned an acreage that's the dog I would choose.

555 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:02:25am

re: #536 Decatur Deb

Our 'Pocket Pyr' is a rescue, probably about half Golden. Couldn't be a better dog. (Could be smarter.)

Be careful what you ask for. See my 543.

556 KronoGhazi  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:03:11am

KT: if you move the security CCTV route email me. I've been in the residential side of the biz for 25 yrs.

557 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:03:19am

re: #550 Joanne

My friend rescues Pitts. She has six of them. Some of them are so damned cute, too. Big lumps of love. But they do need a big of a firmer hand. I got my friend a Pitt rescue and that boy is so spoiled. He could use a little bit more, uhm, guidance.

Yeah, they are a lot of dog. IMHO any big dog needs an experienced owner. Well, any dog, but a big dog can be a big liability without training. Pitts are unbelievably strong. Probably have the strongest jaw structure I've ever seen in a dog. They are built like tanks. I don't think I could upset one if I ran at him.

I think it's important to be able to physically control your dog if necessary. Not sure I could physically control a Pitt, where I could a Dobe or GSD. Pitts don't even have enough hair to grab on to.

558 HappyWarrior  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:03:22am

re: #552 Joanne

Well, that would have saved all these anti-immigrant problems. :-)

Nah, there's plenty of Mexican Americans who have been in the Southwest for generations. Doesn't stop the xenophobic morons from thinking they're illegals!

559 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:03:39am

re: #547 SpaceJesus

yeah, i'm leaning towards wiener dogs and maybe corgis. i just looked up american eskimo dogs too.

i think dachshund it is.

Get a standard smooth, they are pretty low maintenance.
Miniatures are more high strung from my experience.

560 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:04:09am

re: #551 b_sharp

My family has been into German Shepherds for 50 years. Large, extremely intelligent, very loyal and they have a mythology associated with them (police dogs) that works well as a deterrent.

Pit bulls are also good dogs, not as bright as a Shepherd, but even more loyal and their mythology is an even better deterrent.

GSD is my all time favorite breed. I just don't have the stamina to properly raise one. Too damn smart. They are nearly human.

561 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:05:15am

re: #542 Gretchen G.Tiger

Every little poo combination I've met has been great!. Those Cavalier King Charles Spaniels are great too --especially with kids, which can be dicy with little dogs.

People love their little dachsunds.

The Italian Greyhound is a great little dog, but will bolt if you open the door 3 inches. Very gentle and loving. I really like them a lot.

There is a little terrier that looks like a stuffed animal that is wonderful as well, lots of personality.

Remember, They'll only yap if you train them that it is OK to do so. Some have been bred to yap as alarm systems, the big dogs come when they yap a certain way.

Doxies are FIERCE! I had a mini-doxie, 10 lbs, and she totally went all Tazmanian devil on my 85 pound dog when they first met. The big dog had a look on her face like W.T.F? It was hysterical. Best buds after that.

Italian greyhounds are adorable, but they break really easily. They can fracture a leg jumping off a couch or bed.

(I used to bred and show dogs. I also train in obedience and agility. And yes, I am a total dog freak!!)

562 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:05:30am

re: #516 Gretchen G.Tiger

I have 3 that have to be done, but my back hurts too much.

Bathing mine is like taking them to a spa, they have to be blow-dried and their coats need to be stripped, nails done, ears cleaned --the works.

My mother had a breeding kennel - TerRo Kennels - before she died. She raised shepherds, shelties and toy/mini poodles. Before she moved out to an acreage she had a dog grooming business to help support her dog habit.

Just sayin'.

563 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:05:47am

re: #559 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Get a standard smooth, they are pretty low maintenance.
Miniatures are more high strung from my experience.

Miniatures have to be high strung. They have to have the reserve energy to jump out of the way of your feet in a nano-second. It's a matter of life or death!!!

564 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:07:26am

re: #562 b_sharp

My mother had a breeding kennel - TerRo Kennels - before she died. She raised shepherds, shelties and toy/mini poodles. Before she moved out to an acreage she had a dog grooming business to help support her dog habit.

Just sayin'.

I used to enjoy it a lot, but my hands hurt too much now.

I even have a junior handler now for Brat Puppy in agility. I just can't keep-up with the pace. Still doing obedience.

565 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:08:22am

I'm not a big dog person but I do want a dog to go hunting with. Preferably the impossible - one that can flush a pheasant or retrieve a duck. Perhaps that would get me into a dog...

566 OhNoZombies!  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:09:04am

re: #107 jaunte

One of my daughters had a first grade teacher who assigned the kids to create a photo-essay of their early lives. Our kids were adopted late, age 3 and 4, and they had no baby photos, so we suggested she draw her pictures. After she turned in her drawings and short bio, the teacher told her she would get a bad grade unless she completed the assignment with photos. She suggested using baby pictures of strangers cut out of magazines.

I'm still catching up,
But that has to be one of the most insensitive, insulting, and stupid thing ever I have heard.
I would have raised holy hell.
OMG.

567 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:09:36am

re: #523 Gretchen G.Tiger

I've noticed with the Sporting Breeds, the better instincts they naturally have for their Sport --the dumber they are in everyother respect.

Hubby reports that Brat Puppy is becoming a dream of field dog. He still can't figure out to get off the bed when the rest of the dogs do when we come to bed. It's a ritual. We start messing with the covers, the dogs get off, wait, then when we have settled, they get back on and resettle themselves. Brat Puppy now 1.5 years just gives us a blank look when we tell him to GO. Other dogs are sitting on the sidelines waiting to be called back up.

Working dogs seem to be the smartest. Sport dogs like standard poodles are quite smart, poodles rate near the top consistently.

568 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:11:33am

re: #528 Obdicut

Mutts are the best dogs because they're mutts.

Fewer problems with recessive genes.

569 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:13:04am

re: #565 William Barnett-Lewis

I'm not a big dog person but I do want a dog to go hunting with. Preferably the impossible - one that can flush a pheasant or retrieve a duck. Perhaps that would get me into a dog...

Well, if you want just a hunting dog, you could contact your local gun club and ask where you could get one. My breeder sold one of their Brittany's for $3K. She was way too much of a Brittany to sell to sell to just anyone, so she went to "Hunt Training Camp" for about 8 months and was sold thru the "Camp".

All reports are that she is a happy, healthy, kennelled outside-in-straw, hunting-only dog. Don't think the selling price began to cover the costs of "Hunting Camp". She couldn't be in the home after about 6 months. Just WILD.

570 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:13:53am

re: #566 R.M, Ramallo

I'm still catching up,
But that has to be one of the most insensitive, insulting, and stupid thing ever I have heard.
I would have raised holy hell.
OMG.

Yeah, that one would probably have taken me to the Board. Sensitivity training is needed here, big time.

571 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:14:47am

re: #567 b_sharp

Working dogs seem to be the smartest. Sport dogs like standard poodles are quite smart, poodles rate near the top consistently.

Poodles are a Sporting Breed --water retrievers!

Bob knows they loves their tennis ball.

Some in the Herding Breed are wicked smart too! --Border Collies, Australian's.

572 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:15:46am

re: #568 b_sharp

Fewer problems with recessive genes.

I feel the same way about White People. We are getting inbred --not joking.

573 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:15:56am

re: #565 William Barnett-Lewis

I'm not a big dog person but I do want a dog to go hunting with. Preferably the impossible - one that can flush a pheasant or retrieve a duck. Perhaps that would get me into a dog...

Get a Bracco Italiano or a Spinone Italiano. They point, flush and retrieve. And they have THE BEST temperaments...calm inside and go forever outdoors.

574 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:16:26am

re: #557 Gretchen G.Tiger

Yeah, they are a lot of dog. IMHO any big dog needs an experienced owner. Well, any dog, but a big dog can be a big liability without training. Pitts are unbelievably strong. Probably have the strongest jaw structure I've ever seen in a dog. They are built like tanks. I don't think I could upset one if I ran at him.

I think it's important to be able to physically control your dog if necessary. Not sure I could physically control a Pitt, where I could a Dobe or GSD. Pitts don't even have enough hair to grab on to.

I have to disagree with your second paragraph. My mom's dogs were frequently much stronger than her, especially the grand sire - 110 lbs of solid muscle. She bonded with them in such a way they would do anything for her.

575 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:16:36am

re: #569 Gretchen G.Tiger

Heh. I have a boy who'd want the dog in the house so it won't be like that. I have thought about an English Retriever though we couldn't afford one.

576 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:17:02am

re: #559 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Get a standard smooth, they are pretty low maintenance.
Miniatures are more high strung from my experience.

Yup, the minis can be really snarky.

577 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:17:08am

re: #565 William Barnett-Lewis

I'm not a big dog person but I do want a dog to go hunting with. Preferably the impossible - one that can flush a pheasant or retrieve a duck. Perhaps that would get me into a dog...

The smartest (and calmest) dog I ever had was a Chesapeake Bay retriever.

578 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:18:27am

re: #573 Joanne

Sounds interesting. Off to google & wiki I go!

579 OhNoZombies!  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:18:49am

re: #490 Killgore Trout

I didn't sleep as well last night but over all I'm calming down and a little less paranoid after the break in the other night. Seriously considering a lot of different security options. The one that would solve most problems is a good dog. Not a vicious attack beast but something that would bark when a stranger starts snooping around the yard. But I'm not a dog person and they take a lot of care, attention, walks, exercise etc. and I'm not sure how the cats will accept a new addition.
I'm also a little concerned about over doing security and attracting more attention. A new alarm system and blind system closing off the greenhouse every night might make thieves think I'm hiding a pot growing operation and give them more motivation to break in. As creepy as it is it might be better to let them look in and see I don't have anythng that interests them.

I recommend a German Short- hair Pointer.
We had one named Guenther.
He was a big for his breed, a 125 lb. lap dog, but he had a deep, menacing growl and bark.
You could always depend on him to alert you if something was afoot.

580 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:19:12am

re: #561 Joanne

Doxies are FIERCE! I had a mini-doxie, 10 lbs, and she totally went all Tazmanian devil on my 85 pound dog when they first met. The big dog had a look on her face like W.T.F? It was hysterical. Best buds after that.

Italian greyhounds are adorable, but they break really easily. They can fracture a leg jumping off a couch or bed.

(I used to bred and show dogs. I also train in obedience and agility. And yes, I am a total dog freak!!)

You and mom would have gotten along like gangbusters. In the '60s she did training for a number of RCMP officers.

I get along better with dogs than I do people.

581 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:19:27am

re: #575 William Barnett-Lewis

Heh. I have a boy who'd want the dog in the house so it won't be like that. I have thought about an English Retriever though we couldn't afford one.

I got my first Fieldie for free --Rescue.

Get on the AKC website and contact the Rescue person for the breed group. Go to local dog shows, meet the breeders, establish a relationship with them. If they see you are serious about dogs and the breed, you'll eventually find yourself with a rescue.

Warning --my free to a good home AKC Champion has turned into about 10 dogs in the years since. Puppies we've purchased to foster dogs.

They become an addiction of sorts.

582 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:20:32am

re: #579 R.M, Ramallo

I recommend a German Short- hair Pointer.
We had one named Guenther.
He was a big for his breed, a 125 lb. lap dog, but he had a deep, menacing growl and bark.
You could always depend on him to alert you if something was afoot.

GSP?????

The most energetic dog I've ever met. You can't tire them out. Very sweet and great with kids. Wayyyy too much for me to deal with.

There was one in my last agility class that had to be on a pinch because he couldn't wait his turn on the course. Frothed at the mouth, barked, whined --just wanted to do the course over and over and over faster and faster and faster.

583 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:22:16am

re: #578 William Barnett-Lewis

Sounds interesting. Off to google & wiki I go!

You can contact me if you'd like REPUTABLE breeders. There is one I would highly suggest you stay away from. (not sure how to give you contact info)

584 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:23:06am

re: #580 b_sharp

I get along better with dogs than I do people.

Yup. :-D

585 OhNoZombies!  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:23:55am

re: #582 Gretchen G.Tiger

GSP?????

The most energetic dog I've ever met. You can't tire them out. Very sweet and great with kids. Wayyyy too much for me to deal with.

Energy, yes.
Let's just say I was in the best shape of my life !

586 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:23:56am

re: #572 Gretchen G.Tiger

I feel the same way about White People. We are getting inbred --not joking.

Not likely.

Far too many people, far too much interaction between people. Fast transportation and changing attitudes makes 'inbreeding', in a general sense pretty much impossible. Small, semi-isolated groups may be somewhat different, but they are an insignificant percentage of the total.

587 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:24:00am

re: #583 Joanne

You can contact me if you'd like REPUTABLE breeders. There is one I would highly suggest you stay away from. (not sure how to give you contact info)

There is a special place in Hell for bad breeders.

588 blueraven  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:24:14am

re: #547 SpaceJesus

yeah, i'm leaning towards wiener dogs and maybe corgis. i just looked up american eskimo dogs too.

i think dachshund it is.

Pugs are great too.

I have a dachshund mix...a hound rescue and another huge mixed breed; part lab, part husky type. Both are rescue and both are Great dogs!

589 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:24:18am

re: #577 jaunte

The smartest (and calmest) dog I ever had was a Chesapeake Bay retriever.

Also, good looking: Image: in-her-element.jpg

590 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:25:25am

re: #579 R.M, Ramallo

I recommend a German Short- hair Pointer.
We had one named Guenther.
He was a big for his breed, a 125 lb. lap dog, but he had a deep, menacing growl and bark.
You could always depend on him to alert you if something was afoot.

You had a 125 lb Pointer? That would be really unusual.

591 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:25:58am

re: #583 Joanne

You can contact me if you'd like REPUTABLE breeders. There is one I would highly suggest you stay away from. (not sure how to give you contact info)

My nic is blue - for this reply it should give you my email address if you click it rather than my web page. I'm liking what I'm reading so further info is good.

592 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:27:05am

re: #587 Gretchen G.Tiger

There is a special place in Hell for bad breeders.

Amen to that! One of the breeders decided that six of her bitches had to go - she had younger dogs to breed - so she sent them to a kill shelter. It took us 24 hours of round robin emails to get those dogs into homes. I could have KILLED that woman.

593 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:27:35am

re: #589 jaunte

Also, good looking: Image: in-her-element.jpg

She's a beauty!!

594 jaunte  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:27:39am
595 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:27:52am

Old Man Dog

Says he is retired and doesn't need grooming any more.

596 dragonath  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:28:27am
597 OhNoZombies!  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:29:29am

re: #590 b_sharp

You had a 125 lb Pointer? That would be really unusual.

I know -- he just kept growing!
He was all muscle.
Actually, he used to walk me...

598 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:29:34am

re: #592 Joanne

Amen to that! One of the breeders decided that six of her bitches had to go - she had younger dogs to breed - so she sent them to a kill shelter. It took us 24 hours of round robin emails to get those dogs into homes. I could have KILLED that woman.

No kidding! Idiot. Wouldn't it have been easier to contact the breed rescue person than to fill out the paperwork at the shelter? WTF?

599 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:31:14am

re: #597 R.M, Ramallo

I know -- he just kept growing!
He was all muscle.
Actually, he used to walk me...

How many miles a day did he run you?

As I understand it GSP's don't exercise, they just condition themselves to go further the next day.

600 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:32:32am

re: #595 Gretchen G.Tiger

Old Man Dog

Gorgeous

601 sattv4u2  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:32:38am

re: #597 R.M, Ramallo

I know -- he just kept growing!
He was all muscle.
Actually, he used to walk me...

Saddle
Spurs
Problem solved

602 b_snark  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:33:56am

re: #597 R.M, Ramallo

I know -- he just kept growing!
He was all muscle.
Actually, he used to walk me...

My mother had a habit of walking her dogs once a day by having them run beside the car on country roads. They tended to be extremely muscular dogs.

603 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:35:34am

re: #600 b_sharp

Gorgeous

He is a good boy. No prey drive whatsoever, a dream in the obedience ring. My perfect dog.

604 Mattand  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:36:58am

Here's Captain Needy pretending he's Ezio from Assassin's Creed.

Image: IMG_0133_LGF.jpg

605 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:38:10am

re: #604 Mattand

Here's Captain Needy pretending he's Ezio from Assassin's Creed.

Image: IMG_0133_LGF.jpg

That face!!!!!! oooooooh

606 OhNoZombies!  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:38:14am

re: #599 Gretchen G.Tiger

How many miles a day did he run you?

Three or four.
It was extortion, because if I didn't, he would destroy our backyard fence!

607 danarchy  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:38:40am

As long as people are sharing pictures of their puppies:Ellie the elkhound

608 Mattand  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:41:08am

re: #605 Gretchen G.Tiger

That face!!!!!! oooooooh

This was his star-making turn on the TV show Dogs 101. He's the adult playing with the ball on the white background.

It's sad that we still flog this 4 years later, but what the hey...

609 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:41:19am

I've a friend that fosters all-breed rescues continually. Seems like every day she has at least one different dog in her house.

I have a very difficult time not taking all of them home.

She also has a house full of kids all the time. The dogs she gets are wonderful. I can't imagine how they got in the rescue world to begin with. Sometimes, I think it is jut the home she and her husband have created.

Brat Puppy goes there for training and babysitting sometimes. WE see a big improvement in his behavior after each visit.

610 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:42:40am

re: #591 William Barnett-Lewis

Check your e.

611 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:43:25am

re: #565 William Barnett-Lewis

I'm not a big dog person but I do want a dog to go hunting with. Preferably the impossible - one that can flush a pheasant or retrieve a duck. Perhaps that would get me into a dog...

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

612 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:43:30am

re: #595 Gretchen G.Tiger

Old Man Dog

Says he is retired and doesn't need grooming any more.

What a doll!!

613 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:44:27am

re: #598 Gretchen G.Tiger

No kidding! Idiot. Wouldn't it have been easier to contact the breed rescue person than to fill out the paperwork at the shelter? WTF?

Rescue would have skewed her as a breeder (we did anyway). Anyone contacting the club would have heard about her.

614 efuseakay  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:44:41am

Don't forget greyhounds. People wrongly assume they need lots of exercise, and you need to take them running all the time. Not true. The rescues are ex racers, and once you get them home, all they want to do is sleep 18 hours a day. :)

I myself have an Alaskan Malamute. He's the friendliest dog I have ever had the privilege of meeting. Almost lost him last year October to a tumor on his liver. 4lbs. Thankfully it was on the "good" side of the liver and the surgery was successful. If you'd meet him today, you'd have no idea he was 12. His size alone makes people walk across the street to avoid him. Needless to say, no neighborhood kids have messed with the pool while I've been away since I adopted him 10.5 years ago.

615 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:47:17am

re: #608 Mattand

This was his star-making turn on the TV show Dogs 101. He's the adult playing with the ball on the white background.

It's sad that we still flog this 4 years later, but what the hey...

Boxers are one of the breeds that if raised with one as a child, a human will want nothing else the rest of their life. Boxers and Labs are what I hear most about from adults. They always want one for their kid.

616 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:48:25am
617 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:48:38am

Me and my ex along with our some of our doxie babies, back when I bred and showed them. The old man in the center is "killer" (mixed breed) who was a rescue.

Doxies!

618 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:49:28am

re: #611 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

Heh! He just got that same quote in email. That is my signature line in my email. :-)

619 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:49:46am

re: #612 Joanne

What a doll!!

He is breed-standard perfect, but has no hunting instincts. Strange how the Confirmation ring works. Just looks and structure, no indication of how the dog actually functions.

He is really a defective Field Spaniel. His sister (who is no over the Bridge) was the perfect Field Spaniel except in appearance. She had the energy, prey drive and trainability for the field or any work you wanted her to do. Just didn't fit breed-standard so she was spayed and never went to the breed ring.

620 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:50:23am

re: #614 efuseakay

Don't forget greyhounds. People wrongly assume they need lots of exercise, and you need to take them running all the time. Not true. The rescues are ex racers, and once you get them home, all they want to do is sleep 18 hours a day. :)

I myself have an Alaskan Malamute. He's the friendliest dog I have ever had the privilege of meeting. Almost lost him last year October to a tumor on his liver. 4lbs. Thankfully it was on the "good" side of the liver and the surgery was successful. If you'd meet him today, you'd have no idea he was 12. His size alone makes people walk across the street to avoid him. Needless to say, no neighborhood kids have messed with the pool while I've been away since I adopted him 10.5 years ago.

Rescue Greyhounds make great therapy dogs!!!!! Soo calm --my kind of dog.

621 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:50:32am

re: #608 Mattand

This was his star-making turn on the TV show Dogs 101. He's the adult playing with the ball on the white background.

It's sad that we still flog this 4 years later, but what the hey...

Whoa..that one pooch has a Gene Simmons sized tongue! SOOOOO CUTE!!!

622 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:50:46am

re: #616 Joanne

This was my baby. Loved this dog sooooooooo much.

What a ham!!!!! Too cute!

623 Mattand  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:51:08am

re: #615 Gretchen G.Tiger

Boxers are one of the breeds that if raised with one as a child, a human will want nothing else the rest of their life. Boxers and Labs are what I hear most about from adults. They always want one for their kid.

What's been staggering is the amount of people we encounter who either had a boxer as a kid, or had a relative who had one. Doesn't happen as much now that he's older, but we still get people stopping us to tell their stories.

When I'd take him for walks as a pup, I would literally get people pulling over to the side of the road to see him. It's to the point now where if a car slows down for whatever reason, he thinks it's to see him.

624 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:51:57am

re: #617 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Me and my ex along with our some of our doxie babies, back when I bred and showed them. The old man in the center is "killer" (mixed breed) who was a rescue.

Doxies!

LOVE. THAT. PICTURE!!

625 OhNoZombies!  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:52:23am

re: #602 b_sharp

My mother had a habit of walking her dogs once a day by having them run beside the car on country roads. They tended to be extremely muscular dogs.

Definitely a dog best suited for country life.
If you are a hunter, the GSP is your dog.

626 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:52:31am

An old neighbor had one of those deaf white boxers. She was the biggest sweetie. We eventually figured out she wasn't totally deaf, there were some sharp sounds she heard. Low tones, like foot steps she could sense thru the vibrations in the floor. She was really very functional. It helped she had a another hearing Boxer in the house tho. She took a lot of cues from him. Smart as shit.

627 Mattand  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:52:36am

re: #616 Joanne

This was my baby. Loved this dog sooooooooo much.

LOL, the shit dogs put up with from us! Good looking dog.

628 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:53:22am

re: #623 Mattand

What's been staggering is the amount of people we encounter who either had a boxer as a kid, or had a relative who had one. Doesn't happen as much now that he's older, but we still get people stopping us to tell their stories.

When I'd take him for walks as a pup, I would literally get people pulling over to the side of the road to see him. It's to the point now where if a car slows down for whatever reason, he thinks it's to see him.

Well, of course, it couldn't possibly be to see you! LOL

629 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:54:20am

re: #622 Gretchen G.Tiger

What a ham!!!!! Too cute!

She was such a hoot. I got the Doggles because she would tear through the brush and game out all bloody one time. I was afraid she'd hurt herself.

She was so funny. We'd be going through the field and you wouldn't know where she was, but all of a sudden she'd jump way up and we'd see her head pop up...then 30 seconds later, it would pop up again on a different side of the field.

630 Mattand  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:54:44am

re: #628 Gretchen G.Tiger

Well, of course, it couldn't possibly be to see you! LOL

I have started brushing my teeth once a week now, so you never know.

631 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:55:09am

re: #623 Mattand

When I'd take him for walks as a pup, I would literally get people pulling over to the side of the road to see him. It's to the point now where if a car slows down for whatever reason, he thinks it's to see him.

Isn't it? He's a star afterall!

632 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:57:37am

re: #627 Mattand

LOL, the shit dogs put up with from us! Good looking dog.

Seriously, it wasn't like a doggie costume (ok, she did have devil horns for Halloween, but that's a different story). She was so into chasing critters that she came out one time with her whole face, especially near her eyes, all bloody. I was afraid she'd rip an eye out.

633 efuseakay  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 10:58:45am

Dinner time at my place. Every. Single. Day.

634 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 11:01:28am

re: #633 efuseakay

Dinner time at my place. Every. Single. Day.

[Embedded content]

OMG, that is sooooooo cute!! My Visla is looking for the new dog now.

635 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 11:06:27am

re: #633 efuseakay

Yes, that is Old Man Dog too!

I swear in a 100 years or so, if we keep if dog-human interaction in 1st world countries keeps at the level it is now, we'll see a line of dogs with larnyx's or *some* developed ability to speak. We seem to favor dogs with expressive barks and they do communicate so well!!!!!

Maybe there will be some hybrid human-canine very basic language.

636 efuseakay  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 11:13:27am

re: #634 Joanne

OMG, that is sooooooo cute!! My Visla is looking for the new dog now.

If he weren't so cute, he'd be sooooo annoying. ;)

637 Joanne  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 11:14:22am

re: #636 efuseakay

If he weren't so cute, he'd be sooooo annoying. ;)

That could be said for any dog.

638 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 11:25:48am

re: #637 Joanne

That could be said for any dog.

and most kids.

639 Gus  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 11:40:17am

...I objected when George W. Bush was the subject of undeserved hyperbolic criticism, but the baseless scorn heaped upon President Obama makes Bush's detractors look diplomatic. The president, the office, and our nation deserve better...

640 GeneJockey  Sun, Nov 4, 2012 1:10:28pm

re: #614 efuseakay

Don't forget greyhounds. People wrongly assume they need lots of exercise, and you need to take them running all the time. Not true. The rescues are ex racers, and once you get them home, all they want to do is sleep 18 hours a day. :)

As the owner of 2 ex-racers, I can confirm that! One walk and they're sacked out the rest of the day.

Image: walkies_small.jpg.

Image: sacked_out_small.jpg


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