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The GOP’s ‘Kobayashi Maru’ Problem

If they want a chance in 2016, they must start acting NOW
Politics • Views: 23,432

In the universe of Star Trek, the Kobayashi Maru is a test taken by cadets at Starfleet command. It is presented as a “no win” scenario in which there are only two possible courses of action:

1. Rescue the crew of a damaged ship, but violate a treaty to do so and provoke a battle (in which you are outgunned and cannot win) with an alien race.

2. Leave the ship alone, thus avoiding the battle but guaranteeing the certain deaths of everyone on board.

This campaign season, the GOP ended up in their own Kobayashi Maru scenario, stemming purely from the nature of the beast as it were.

They never found a good answer. There may not have been a good answer. In order to win the Republican primaries and thus become the Presidential nominee, a candidate was going to have to get the Tea Party contingent of the party on their side. This was not optional. The Tea Party became a large part of the GOP base following the 2008 elections and therefore a large segment of Republican primary voters for the 2012 election came from that group (“Tea Party” here refers to not only groups specifically identified by that name, but also other groups with similar beliefs).

In order to get that Tea Party vote and the GOP nomination, a candidate would have to promote and support viewpoints and policies favored by these groups. We saw what happened when Jon Hunstman tried to go against the grain. He failed miserably.

The eventual GOP nominee, Mitt Romney, took note of this and shifted to the right on all of his positions so he would gain some acceptance among Tea Party voters and not ruin his chances of winning the nomination.

It worked and after winning the primaries he now had to focus on the general election, which meant he’d have to find a way to appeal to wider base of voters if he wanted to win the White House.

Here we find the “Kobayashi Maru” problem.

In order to appeal to a wider range of voters, he’d have to by design support policy positions that were more moderate than what the Tea Party groups were in favor of, but if he did so he’d lose Tea Party support which would damage his chances of beating Obama.

It truly was a no-win scenario.

If he expressed a strong, direct preference for prayer in public schools, he’d hit big with the Tea Party types, but he’d also alienate moderates. If he endorsed religious freedom in schools, he’d gain moderate support but lose backers on the Tea Party side.

For the Romney campaign it became a question of “how do we successfully toe this line so as to not alienate voters on either side?”

They never found a good answer. There may not have been a good answer.

You can talk at length about the myriad of reasons Mitt Romney didn’t win in 2012, but his inability to solve the problem outlined above has to be near the top of that list.

Of course, the public comments by a variety of GOP state and federal candidates didn’t help him much either, nor did the weak response of his campaign to them.

The Romney campaign should have developed a comprehensive public relations plan and done their best to get all GOP candidates on board with it. If someone did make damaging comments, they should have acted quickly and decisively to deal with it.

But this is not just a Mitt Romney problem. It is not just a 2012 problem. It’s a Republican problem and it’s one that needs a solution sooner rather than later. With Obama re-elected the Tea Party will maintain its strength so it seems clear that whoever runs for the 2016 GOP nomination will face the same minefields as Mitt Romney did this time around.

Though there will be a new Democratic nominee next time around, the only chance the GOP has to take back the White House hinges on the answer to this one question:

“How do you win a no-win scenario?”

It’s actually not impossible.

One of the most famous parts of Star Trek canon is that James T. Kirk was one of the few cadets to actually win the Kobayashi Maru scenario and successfully save the damaged ship. He did so by reprogramming the scenario, which, while unethical to a degree, was not against the rules. In fact, he received a commendation as a result because of his “creative thinking”.

What the Republicans really need is a James T. Kirk. Someone who can open them up to a new way of looking at things that could ultimately bring some unity and cohesion to the party.

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423 comments

1 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 10:32:16am

Nicely done.

2 freetoken  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 10:33:23am

Ok, so who is the GOP's James T. Kirk?

3 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 10:42:57am
What the Republicans really need is a James T. Kirk. Someone who can open them up to a new way of looking at things that could ultimately bring some unity and cohesion to the party.

Alternately, you could look at it from the perspective that James T Kirk upended the system because he didn't like the range of results...which ain't so good a result in the world of representative democracy.

Part of the reason I'm skeptical of the GOP pulling out of its purity spiral is that so many of their base actually hold the system of US politics in contempt. The vitriol heaped on the equality of franchise amounts to the belief that their votes are more equal than others, part and parcel of the larger understanding that they are the "real Americans," and everyone else isn't. Any result that doesn't comply with their wants is flawed, any analysis that fails to confirm their thoughts biased, and any person that breaks with their positions irredeemable.

Voter ID laws, shenanigans with poll watching, misinformation campaigns...these tactics do not suggest that the backers of the GOP are interested in the democratic process as a tenet of civil society. They want the counterfeit of democratic choice while implementing a narrow band of ideological agenda.

As long as that refrain of "we really don't want others to vote against us" remains strong, the GOP won't change. Ethical folks will stand aside or walk away; or be pushed out.

4 sffilk  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 11:19:51am

re: #2 freetoken

Ok, so who is the GOP's James T. Kirk?

Is there one? I don't think so.

5 shecky  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 11:24:42am

Sure the GOP needs a James T. Kirk. But all they got is a party full of Harry Mudds.

6 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:38:33pm

Promoted!

7 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:39:26pm

I keep getting an eternal "spinning wheel of death" even when the page loads, like it's waiting for something on an exernal site that isn't responding.

8 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:40:21pm

The GOPs solution: Destroy the Kobayashi Maru themselves, then doctor the logs to make it look like the Klingons started it.

9 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:40:35pm

re: #2 freetoken

Gov Christie.

10 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:41:07pm

I see many red-shirts and no Captain Kirks.

11 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:41:09pm

I think they need a Dr. Jack Kevorkian for a large part of their platform(not their people, just their ideas).

12 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:41:56pm

re: #9 PhillyPretzel

Gov Christie.

Christie will be persona non grata until he says something critical of President Obama, after which all will be forgiven and forgotten.

13 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:42:19pm

re: #2 freetoken

Ok, so who is the GOP's James T. Kirk?

Karl Rove--Commander for Life.

14 RadicalModerate  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:42:30pm

Someone needs to remind the Republicans that the ultimate solution to James Kirk's "Kobayashi Maru" scenario ended up causing the death of his closest friend.

Just sayin'.

15 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:42:33pm

re: #9 PhillyPretzel

Gov Christie.

There are two paths, really. Either Christie becomes a rallying point for the sane and practical conservatives who are left in the GOP-- and they accept the loss of the ultra-religious right and absolute racists as a voting bloc-- or he becomes a Democrat or Independent.

16 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:42:47pm

re: #12 darthstar

I know. It was a similar situation with Huntsman.

17 calochortus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:43:00pm

Somewhat related: We are now hearing a lot from the Republicans about demographics, and the corollary of "Hispanics are natural Republican voters". I am not Hispanic, and I'm lily white so I don't speak from personal knowledge, but it seems to me the Republicans may have missed something. Yes, Hispanics tend to be hardworking, family oriented, small business owning folks (presumably when they aren't sneaking over the border to have anchor babies.) Being largely Catholic they're probably anti-abortion. Judging from the size of families I see, I suspect they may not pay as much attention to the birth control prohibition.

But it seems to me the Republicans are missing where Hispanics are not "natural Republicans"-social services, education, caring for their neighbors and trusting the government to help with these things. For example, I heard that Hispanics supported our Prop 30 which raised taxes on high earners AND raised the sales tax, so it hits both ends of the economic spectrum to keep the state's education, social services, etc. afloat.

Seem to me the GOP is once again missing the problem.

18 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:43:14pm

I'd also add that there's an entire media-industrial complex dedicated to killing off any chance of reform, because keeping angry evangelical white people angry is big business!

Do you think Limbaugh and all his clones, and Fox News, and "serious" conservative media like Commentary or National Review are going to allow the GOP to moderate and reconcile with women, gays, Latinos, secularists, etc. if it means lost ad revenue.

I'm so glad the Dems don't have this problem. Michael Moore is probably the closest thing to Limbaugh on the left, and he's kept well away from the power levers in the Democratic Party. Most liberal media types are completely sane, reasonable people like Rachel Maddow.

19 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:43:23pm

re: #14 RadicalModerate

Someone needs to remind the Republicans that the ultimate solution to James Kirk's "Kobayashi Maru" scenario ended up causing the death of his closest friend.

Just sayin'.

Or that he had to commit fraud to successfully complete the scenario.

20 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:43:59pm

re: #7 Vicious Babushka

I keep getting an eternal "spinning wheel of death" even when the page loads, like it's waiting for something on an exernal site that isn't responding.

Not seeing anything like that here. This can happen sometimes when there's an external file being accessed by an ad server, but it's not easy to tell where it's coming from because everybody gets served different ads.

21 dragonfire1981  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:44:08pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Promoted!

Wow, thanks, Charles!

22 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:44:49pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Not seeing anything like that here. This can happen sometimes when there's an external file being accessed by an ad server, but it's not easy to tell where it's coming from because everybody gets served different ads.

I have a subscription and also use AdBlock so I don't usually see ads.

23 sffilk  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:45:17pm

re: #15 Obdicut

There are two paths, really. Either Christie becomes a rallying point for the sane and practical conservatives who are left in the GOP-- and they accept the loss of the ultra-religious right and absolute racists as a voting bloc-- or he becomes a Democrat or Independent.

I don't think that will happen - unfortunately.

24 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:45:22pm

A small part of why the GOP lost:

The election marked a watershed moment for marriage equality, it won in all four states that considered it. Normally four states with that on the ballot would spell doom for Democrats, this time they didn't alter the outcome at all.

Society is changing for the better. Hopefully the Supremes will strike down DOMA, especially now that this new civil rights movement has some popular and legislative support. Putting people's basic rights up for a referendum is still wrong, but at least society is now beginning to move into a phase where it can answer the question correctly.

The GOP can either get on board with this being a fundamental issue of civil rights, of equal protection under the law, or they can cling to a bygone, bigoted era.

25 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:45:57pm

re: #17 calochortus

Hispanic Catholics tend to focus very heavily on the 'social justice' aspect of Catholicism, and especially the obligation to the poor and sick. The current GOP has a Randian mantra of cruelty to the less fortunate that is very much the opposite of that sort of Catholicism. My parents are the same way. Even though they feel very strongly about abortion, they feel much more the obligation to have a society that provides for and cares about the needy, and so they vote Democratic even though they're religious social conservatives.

26 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:47:26pm

It's weird to pass 1:00 PM and have no reason to click on Gallup and then see how it fits into the RCP poll selection.

27 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:47:35pm

Congrats on the promo.

It's indeed a huge problem when you have to tack in one direction to win the primary, but then have to tack in the opposite direction for the general election.

Part of the problem for the GOP in 2012 was that Romney's shifting positions were done in the extreme.

After all, he created Romneycare and then essentially campaigned against it when it was in the form of Obamacare (ditto for GOPers who spent the last 2 decades telling everyone that individual mandates were right to fix the insurance system, but now say that they're unconstitutional).

People can and do understand instinctively that some position changes are warranted and understandable - but when you shift on core principles, you're going to lose support on both sides. What I mean is that someone who shifted like Romney and the GOP did on health care reform is exposed as nothing more than opportunists and obstructionists because they were simply opposed to the Obama plan because it was Obama who coopted the GOP idea and got it enacted.

Now, you can cheat the game as Kirk did - rewrite the rules, but I don't see anyone approaching the national stage for the GOP who can do that at this point. Even Christie's toxic to the GOP faithful who are going to determine the outcomes in primaries. His support - absolutely critical in a natural disaster - of Obama and FEMA to help New Jersey is an anathema to the GOP rank and file who think that the government shouldn't be in that business. That's even as states can't do disaster relief for themselves when they're knocked out of commission. A federal system allows mutual support to come to bear.

28 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:47:37pm

re: #25 Obdicut

Also, convincing people to vote for folks who hate them is tough sledding.

29 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:48:37pm

Shep Smith needs to get off Fox News. He actually could have some credibility elsewhere.

30 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:48:39pm

re: #26 Decatur Deb

You are going through poll withdrawal. It will pass. /half

31 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:48:40pm

re: #14 RadicalModerate

Someone needs to remind the Republicans that the ultimate solution to James Kirk's "Kobayashi Maru" scenario ended up causing the death of his closest friend.

Just sayin'.

The tea party and the religious right have to be thrown overboard if the GOP is to remain a force in national politics. That is a very tall order but it is the only solution I can see. There is a bare chance someone like Christy could put together a sane coalition that could successfully confront the crazies in the primaries.
A lot depends on how the TP and the RR nuts behave during the next four years. I suspect some of their followers will commit acts, and make statements, that will bring the whole movement into national disrepute. It has happened before: In the early 20s the revived Ku Klux Klan was a major force in American politics, perhaps as powerful as the TP/RR is today. A decade later, nobody would even admit to knowing the cat that drug them in.

32 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:49:05pm

re: #14 RadicalModerate

Someone needs to remind the Republicans that the ultimate solution to James Kirk's "Kobayashi Maru" scenario ended up causing the death of his closest friend.

Just sayin'.

But then he got shot out a torpedo tube onto a planet where he was reborn (literally as in, born as a baby) and then grew to adulthood at a rapid pace like the planet around him but for some reason didn't keep aging at that rapid pace unlike the planet though he wasn't really himself until he went back in time.... and oh my god I've gone crosseyed

33 calochortus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:49:17pm

re: #25 Obdicut

That's pretty much my point. Why can't GOP strategists see it? Just because they don't want to? re: #28 Petero1818

Also, convincing people to vote for folks who hate them is tough sledding.

There is that...

34 dragonfire1981  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:49:21pm

re: #2 freetoken

Ok, so who is the GOP's James T. Kirk?

That is the question, I'm afraid. I'm not sure who that would be right now but they need to find someone articulate, able to effectively appeal to and energize those across the GOP spectrum as well as someone who can figure out how to develop a conservative message that can win not only with the base but with minorities and more moderate voters as well.

I can't think of anyone at the moment who would be the guy, but I'm sure there's someone out there that can make it happen.

I'd also like to point out that by mentioning Kirk's "solution" to the scenario, I was making the point that in order to overcome a situation like this, creative thinking is needed.

Is it possible that in order to fix this problem the GOP may need to risk losing some of the Tea Party voters? Yes.

As far as I'm concerned, almost nothing should be off the table. They need a new strategy and a new approach or they'll just keep falling behind. The demographics of America are changing. I think last night proved they can't just rely on the old voting blocs anymore, no matter how good a job they do of getting those voters to the polls.

35 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:51:02pm

I liked it until the end. Kirk technically cheated, because I thought the purpose of that test was to teach cadets how to accept defeat, and technically have to choose between the lesser of two evils. (Just my way of looking at it anyway.)

I just think in that scenario, it equates to the GOP 'rigging' elections in order to win, instead of actually campaigning on policies geared towards constituencies they are currently losing (women, minorities).

Loved the rest of the article though. With the way their base is during the primaries, the GOP leadership needs to find a way to keep the crazies out of the primary.

36 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:51:02pm

Well written and well analyzed. If you are trying to talk them off the ledge it's probably too late and you are better off putting one of those large inflatable mattresses in below them.

37 calochortus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:51:03pm

I can't tell you how much I would enjoy having to make a choice between two upstanding, qualified candidates for president.

I can dream.

38 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:51:11pm

re: #14 RadicalModerate

Actually, it was Spock's answer to the Kobiyashi Maru test, not Kirk's.

Kirk's test was earlier - when he transported to the Genesis underground facility while the Enterprise ran repairs (and the days are hours etc.)

39 dragonfire1981  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:51:31pm

re: #28 Petero1818

Also, convincing people to vote for folks who hate them is tough sledding.

Agreed, that's why my original post recommended a comprehensive PR strategy and a swift response when trouble occurs.

Bottom line, they will HAVE to decide what they will and WILL NOT tolerate as far as rhetoric and policy related statements are concerned.

You can't stop people from saying things that won't go over well, but you can at least do your best to handle the situation professionally and responsibly which is a quality I think anyone would want in a potential President.

40 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:51:44pm

re: #31 Shiplord Kirel

The tea party and the religious right have to be thrown overboard if the GOP is to remain a force in national politics. That is a very tall order but it is the only solution I can see. There is a bare chance someone like Christy could put together a sane coalition that could successfully confront the crazies in the primaries.
A lot depends on how the TP and the RR nuts behave during the next four years. I suspect some of their followers will commit acts, and make statements, that will bring the whole movement into national disrepute. It has happened before: In the early 20s the revived Ku Klux Klan was a major force in American politics, perhaps as powerful as the TP/RR is today. A decade later, nobody would even admit to knowing the cat that drug them in.

The best chance Christy and Huntsman have of getting into the 2016 TPGOP National Convention is to start a catering company.

41 sizzzzlerz  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:51:55pm
Also, convincing people to vote for folks who hate them is tough sledding.

Well, they'll always have the Log Cabin republicans.

42 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:52:24pm

re: #37 calochortus

I would really enjoy that - but failing a national race of that level, I'd love to see NJ's own go at it - Booker v. Christie.

That would be epic. Both have been quite successful. Both are charismatic and engaging. And both have made their mark under pressure, including Sandy.

43 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:52:48pm
44 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:53:20pm

Exactly. The Republican party has thoroughly Morton's-forked themselves, and I'm not sure they can fix it before the whole party falls apart.

Happy dance!

45 DisturbedEma  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:53:22pm

re: #43 JamesWI

I asked that question. . .

46 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:53:52pm

re: #43 JamesWI

[Embedded content]

Maybe their candidates need that chip they used on Cartman in the South Park movie. They get shocked whenever they use a positive verb in front of the word rape. "Legitimate rape" and Todd Akin gets shocked.

47 calochortus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:55:11pm

re: #42 lawhawk

I would really enjoy that - but failing a national race of that level, I'd love to see NJ's own go at it - Booker v. Christie.

That would be epic. Both have been quite successful. Both are charismatic and engaging. And both have made their mark under pressure, including Sandy.

I'm not sure that I'd describe Christie as charismatic. Let's go with "interesting". Nonetheless, it would be an epic contest.

48 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:56:01pm

a friend of mine was telling me how he was quizzed about how he would handle exactly these types of no-win scenario as part of his training to become an RN

in his case one of the scenarios was being the driver of a bus packed with people where you either had to swerve to avoid hitting somebody directly in your path and endangering the lives of everybody on the bus, or driving safely and just hitting the person in front of you

49 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 12:58:54pm

My prediction is that they will double down on stupid, further isolate themselves and focus state / local where in many states their ground game is creaming the Dems. If the Democrats ever hope to regain the house they are going to have to do a lot better with local candidates in Southern states -- three demographic directions are opening a window of opportunity for them wide: Ageing Republican base, more retirees heading south, and the fact that urban to rural migrations are reversing.

50 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:00:00pm

re: #48 engineer cat

Kirk would have installed elevation rockets and flown over the pedestrian and landed safely on the other side. No word yet if Keanu Reeves would be a passenger.

51 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:00:14pm

Hey...I just noticed Mitt Romney's no longer on your banner ad. Cool!

52 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:00:35pm

re: #48 engineer cat

a friend of mine was telling me how he was quizzed about how he would handle exactly these types of no-win scenario as part of his training to become an RN

in his case one of the scenarios was being the driver of a bus packed with people where you either had to swerve to avoid hitting somebody directly in your path and endangering the lives of everybody on the bus, or driving safely and just hitting the person in front of you

It all sort of comes down to probabilities but most likely keep going and you hit the person in front of you.

Needs of the many....

Granted it's f***ing easy for me/anyone say that when its all just words on a computer screen.

53 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:01:32pm

Only they need that James T Kirk not to be the 1960's macho white hero. Although he had a woman on his bridge, he was still a sexist asshole.

54 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:01:41pm

“Tea Party” here refers to not only

i always thought it was impolite of me to just call them 'morons'

55 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:01:52pm

re: #49 Randall Gross

My prediction is that they will double down on stupid, further isolate themselves and focus state / local where in many states their ground game is creaming the Dems. If the Democrats ever hope to regain the house they are going to have to do a lot better with local candidates in Southern states -- three demographic directions are opening a window of opportunity for them wide: Ageing Republican base, more retirees heading south, and the fact that urban to rural migrations are reversing.

Roy "10 Commandments" Moore was elected to Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court yesterday. There are no Democrats holding statewide elected office. The House and Senate are GOP-dominated.

We'll be having a meeting about that at the local BBQ.

56 erik_t  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:02:13pm

re: #53 Gretchen G.Tiger

Only they need that James T Kirk not to be the 1960's macho white hero. Although he had a woman on his bridge, he was still a sexist asshole.

But how else will the GOP win the crucial green vote?

57 calochortus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:02:34pm

re: #55 Decatur Deb

Roy "10 Commandments" Moore was elected to Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court yesterday. There are no Democrats holding statewide elected office. The House and Senate are GOP-dominated.

We'll be having a meeting about that at the local BBQ.

Oh. Dear.

58 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:02:51pm

re: #52 jamesfirecat

It all sort of comes down to probabilities but most likely keep going and you hit the person in front of you.

Needs of the many....

Granted it's f***ing easy for me/anyone say that when its all just words on a computer screen.

being mentally prepared to face impossible situations like this is i guess the point of the exercise

59 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:03:03pm

re: #53 Gretchen G.Tiger

Honor Harrington would have cut him down to size. Nimitz would have "helped."

60 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:03:08pm

re: #51 darthstar

Hey...I just noticed Mitt Romney's no longer on your banner ad. Cool!

Today in the office was officially labeled EPAD by me. End of Political Ads Day.

Thank you FSM for that. And I'm in NY. I can't imagine the shitstorm the swingers went through. I'd probably write my dog in for President after enduring that cavalcade of bullshit.

61 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:03:46pm

re: #58 engineer cat

being mentally prepared to face impossible situations like this is i guess the point of the exercise

It is also being able not to blame yourself for making a "wrong" decision when there is no right decision. I imagine a lot of people could take that really hard...

62 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:03:52pm

Olympia Snow?

63 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:04:47pm

re: #39 dragonfire1981

Agreed, that's why my original post recommended a comprehensive PR strategy and a swift response when trouble occurs.

Bottom line, they will HAVE to decide what they will and WILL NOT tolerate as far as rhetoric and policy related statements are concerned.

You can't stop people from saying things that won't go over well, but you can at least do your best to handle the situation professionally and responsibly which is a quality I think anyone would want in a potential President.

You are right in a way. If you recall from our own Canadian experience the Reform Party had a problem like that and spent the better part of a year or two reacting swiftly and harshly against those that stepped out of line. But in the end, until they were able to merge with the more mainstream PC party, it was not successful.

In the US context, I am not sure 4 years is enough time to convince women and latinos and other minorities that they are not just pulling the wool over our eyes. It will take something more concrete like a purge of the wingnuts.

65 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:04:50pm

It has been more than 12 hours since I've heard the voice of Romney. Or Ryan. Oh, bliss.

66 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:05:05pm

Bryan Fischer: Yesterday was Pearl Harbor; today we start planning for Normandy

Actually, I would say a better analogy was that yesterday was the Battle of Cannae, but any way...

There is no way to sugar coat what happened yesterday. It was a truly sobering setback for morality, economic sanity, political reality and common sense in our nation’s shared public life. But it happened, and it was bad.

The GOP right now faces a crisis of identity and a choice about whether it will abandon its social principles in a misguided lurch to the left in a futile attempt to chase down moderate voters. If it does lurch left, it will simply move farther from its conservative base, and from conservatives who have disaffiliated with the GOP because it no longer represents their conservative values with any degree of confidence and boldness.

If the GOP lurches left (they will tell us it’s a move to the center, but let’s not kid ourselves), it will no longer have a reason to exist. We will have essentially become a one-party country, with the difference between the two parties being one of degree and not kind. If the party abandons its moral foundations, it will shrivel into insignificance, as its dispirited followers drift away, and it will have no ability to be a moral or political counterweight to the socialism of the Democrat Party.

So the message to the GOP: it’s time to paint with bold colors, not pale pastels. Go bold, go big, go conservative, or go home, because if you don’t go conservative, your party faithful will go home and you will be left with leaders but no followers. And, as the man says, if you’re leading but nobody is following, you’re just taking a walk.

But if the party remains true to its core principles, and is determined to oppose the nation-destroying agenda of this administration, here is what it can do, starting today.

67 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:05:07pm

re: #26 Decatur Deb

It's weird to pass 1:00 PM and have no reason to click on Gallup and then see how it fits into the RCP poll selection.

Hopefully the fact that both Gallup and Rasmussen missed the final tally by more than their own margins of error will end their use by aggregators. At least until they deal with their failure publicly and publish new, revised methodologies that addresses the systemic problems in their models.

68 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:05:27pm

re: #53 Gretchen G.Tiger

Only they need that James T Kirk not to be the 1960's macho white hero. Although he had a woman on his bridge, he was still a sexist asshole.

One of my happiest TV watching moments was when 'The Next Generation' opened with the words, 'where no one has gone before'

69 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:06:06pm

re: #60 Ghost of Tom Joad

Today in the office was officially labeled EPAD by me. End of Political Ads Day.

Thank you FSM for that. And I'm in NY. I can't imagine the shitstorm the swingers went through. I'd probably write my dog in for President after enduring that cavalcade of bullshit.

After enduring the barrage of robocalls and telemarketing calls up until 30 minutes before the polls closed, I have to ask WHY WHY WHY does anybody still think that this is a good idea? Who even listens to these robocalls? Who chats with a telemarketer who calls when you are sitting down to dinner?

Didn't the DO NOT CALL anti-telemarketing list teach them anything?

70 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:06:36pm

re: #68 wrenchwench

Don't forget Janeway.

71 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:06:52pm

Well the GOP problem might be solved by the Democrats themselves if in 2016 the leading contenders are Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. I suspect both will take a shot at it. There was a time where Hillary was a fresh choice but I think that has passed. And before you all pounce....if Hillary were to run she gets my vote.

72 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:07:04pm

re: #57 calochortus

Oh. Dear.

Four of the 15 or so positions on the local ballot were contested. We took up a collection to buy a few signs for our US Representative candidate for appearance sake. Some of that was conscious sacrifice of effort to support Obama across the Florida border.

73 erik_t  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:07:06pm

re: #66 Kragar

Bryan Fischer: Yesterday was Pearl Harbor; today we start planning for Normandy

So the message to the GOP: it’s time to paint with bold colors, not pale pastels. Go bold, go big, go conservative, or go home, because if you don’t go conservative, your party faithful will go home and you will be left with leaders but no followers. And, as the man says, if you’re leading but nobody is following, you’re just taking a walk.

So the verdict is in: Insufficiently Conservative.

Raise your hand if you're surprised.

74 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:07:10pm

What do you lizards think the chances are that a non-trivial portion of Tea-Partiers and social conservatives defects from the "RINOs" in the GOP and tries to form their own party?

75 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:07:12pm

re: #59 PhillyPretzel

Honor Harrington would have cut him down to size. Nimitz would have "helped."

Ciaphis Cain would have bravely run away, yet some how been called a hero in the wrap up.

76 erik_t  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:07:26pm

re: #70 PhillyPretzel

Don't forget Janeway.

Can't I? Please?

77 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:07:48pm

re: #68 wrenchwench

One of my happiest TV watching moments was when 'The Next Generation' opened with the words, 'where no one has gone before'

Except the people who lived there, of course.

78 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:07:55pm

re: #76 erik_t

okay.

79 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:07:57pm

re: #68 wrenchwench

One of my happiest TV watching moments was when 'The Next Generation' opened with the words, 'where no one has gone before'

As I understand it, that is what Roddenberry wanted initially, but the 1960's network types thought it wouldn't sell. They hard a hard enough time selling Ohura on the bridge.

80 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:08:37pm

re: #15 Obdicut

There are two paths, really. Either Christie becomes a rallying point for the sane and practical conservatives who are left in the GOP-- and they accept the loss of the ultra-religious right and absolute racists as a voting bloc-- or he becomes a Democrat or Independent.

Or Christie never moves beyond being a workable GOP politician associated with the state of NJ.

81 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:08:46pm

re: #76 erik_t

Can't I? Please?

No, I liked Janeway.

82 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:08:53pm

The Donald is going after Karl Rove? Oh, this is fun...

83 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:09:08pm

re: #68 wrenchwench

One of my happiest TV watching moments was when 'The Next Generation' opened with the words, 'where no one has gone before'

My happiest Star Trek moments were 7 of 9.

84 erik_t  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:09:16pm

re: #82 darthstar

The Donald is going after Karl Rove? Oh, this is fun...

Donald Trump: Expert on blowing huge fortunes.

85 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:09:21pm

re: #66 Kragar

So as I understand him the choice is to have two parties that are fairly similar but differentiated by minor variations of the same theme, (he calls this essentially a one party system) or 2 parties where one governs in perpetuity from a center left - or center perspective and one permanently polls at around 20-25% of the electorate (and shrinking every cycle). What is the point he is trying to make. At least he can sleep at night?

86 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:09:21pm

I love booting up Windows XP when I haven't in a while. Only 92 high priority updates waiting to be installed... 60 of which are security updates for XP.

87 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:09:29pm

re: #82 darthstar

The Donald is going after Karl Rove? Oh, this is fun...

[Embedded content]

Yeah, remember in school when two kids you hated would get in a fight. This is that fight.

88 b_Snark  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:09:34pm

Anybody else feel kind of lost, as if you don't quite know what you're supposed to be doing?

89 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:09:35pm

re: #66 Kragar

Bryan Fischer: Yesterday was Pearl Harbor; today we start planning for Normandy

Actually, I would say a better analogy was that yesterday was the Battle of Cannae, but any way...

I'd like to go with the Battle of Tannenberg as the analogy, in the hope that the next four years go about as well for the GOP as the four years of World War I went for Russia...

90 calochortus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:09:41pm

re: #72 Decatur Deb

Stay strong.

91 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:10:34pm

re: #66 Kragar

Bryan Fischer: Yesterday was Pearl Harbor; today we start planning for Normandy

Actually, I would say a better analogy was that yesterday was the Battle of Cannae, but any way...

Didn't the Roman's end up winning that war despite Cannae?

92 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:10:38pm

re: #86 Charles Johnson

I love booting up Windows XP when I haven't in a while. Only 92 high priority updates waiting to be installed... 60 of which are security updates for XP.

And they only seem to show up when you are in a hurry to use your computer!

93 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:11:00pm

I think it is important to remember that Romney almost did win. Maybe if it weren't for the 47% remark and some other things, he'd be #43.

His dissembling was off-putting to a lot of voters, but it seems that many people either believed his lies, were totally ignorant of facts and felt Obama should pay for high unemployment, or rationalized that his lying was an understandable truth-stretching that was justified by the need for victory.

94 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:11:11pm

re: #71 Big Steve

Again, it's a big ? because who knows what the next 4 years bring. If things are good, then I'm sure Biden, Hillary, or possibly a Dem Congresscritter with high recognition goes for it (if Biden/Hill don't run, because they'd probably be automatic, and I highly doubt they'd both take a shot at it). If things are bad, the Dems probably run an outside-the-box guy that can sort of distance themselves from the current state of things.

95 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:11:18pm

re: #86 Charles Johnson

I love booting up Windows XP when I haven't in a while. Only 92 high priority updates waiting to be installed... 60 of which are security updates for XP.

Forget booting up. The real fun is when you need to pack up your laptop to leave in a hurry and on shutting down it defaults to running ciritical updates for 40 minutes and you can't shut it down.

96 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:11:22pm

re: #81 Gretchen G.Tiger

No, I liked Janeway.

I liked Janeway also, she was one of my favorite villains!

97 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:11:27pm

re: #91 jamesfirecat

Didn't the Roman's end up winning that war despite Cannae?

I'm talking Battles not whole wars, so SHUSH!

98 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:11:38pm

re: #71 Big Steve

Well the GOP problem might be solved by the Democrats themselves if in 2016 the leading contenders are Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. I suspect both will take a shot at it. There was a time where Hillary was a fresh choice but I think that has passed. And before you all pounce....if Hillary were to run she gets my vote.

I'm looking forward to Warren 2020 or Warren 2024

99 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:11:40pm

re: #74 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

What do you lizards think the chances are that a non-trivial portion of Tea-Partiers and social conservatives defects from the "RINOs" in the GOP and tries to form their own party?

the fact that they created the notion of a 'tea party' is the first step

if you read free republic you can see that many of them don't consider themselves republicans anymore, merely allied with republicans since they figure they need to continue to work with them to combat 'liberals'

but you can see that there is only so much they are willing to put up with from republicans before they lose their patience and split

100 b_Snark  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:12:26pm

re: #95 Petero1818

Forget booting up. The real fun is when you need to pack up your laptop to leave in a hurry and on shutting down it defaults to running ciritical updates for 40 minutes and you can't shut it down.

You can choose to shut it down without installing the updates.

101 erik_t  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:12:40pm

re: #93 Euesperides invidius

I think it is important to remember that Romney almost did win. Maybe if it weren't for the 47% remark and some other things, he'd be #43.

Ehhhhh. He'd be closer on the popular vote, but the GOP's structural challenges in the Electoral College are not trivial.

You can only capture so many votes without ever expressing actual ideas.

102 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:12:41pm

Plus, the Romans actually learned from the Battle of Cannae, something I don't see the Religious Right doing from their loss last night.

103 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:12:42pm

re: #88 b_snark

Anybody else feel kind of lost, as if you don't quite know what you're supposed to be doing?

Yeah, it's a day of cool down and regrouping.

I feel so calm today.

104 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:12:52pm

re: #94 Ghost of Tom Joad

Again, it's a big ? because who knows what the next 4 years bring. If things are good, then I'm sure Biden, Hillary, or possibly a Dem Congresscritter with high recognition goes for it (if Biden/Hill don't run, because they'd probably be automatic, and I highly doubt they'd both take a shot at it). If things are bad, the Dems probably run an outside-the-box guy that can sort of distance themselves from the current state of things.

There's also a good amount of current or formerDem governors who could run. O'Malley, Schweitzer, Warner(my understanding is he was going to run in 2008 but saw the writing on the wall with Obama). Anyhow, I think one of Biden or Hillary ultimately decides not to run.

105 erik_t  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:13:14pm

re: #100 b_snark

You can choose to shut it down without installing the updates.

If the user knows they are legitimate updates, he or she doesn't have ways of shutting that whole thing down.

106 calochortus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:13:15pm

re: #74 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

What do you lizards think the chances are that a non-trivial portion of Tea-Partiers and social conservatives defects from the "RINOs" in the GOP and tries to form their own party?

My guess is it won't go anywhere. It seems to me an awful lot of the people saying they'll form another party would like to have someone else form a large and fully functioning party that they could join. (Disclaimer: I myself wouldn't want to try to build a new political party from the ground up. On the other hand, I'm not calling for anyone else to do it either.)
There seems to be a strong strain of wishful thinking among the rank and file conservative Republicans which is encouraged by those at the top who are actually making money on it.

107 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:13:20pm

re: #89 Ian G.

I'd like to go with the Battle of Tannenberg as the analogy, in the hope that the next four years go about as well for the GOP as the four years of World War I went for Russia...

I'm thinking Idi Amin vs. Julius Nyerere.

108 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:13:42pm

re: #52 jamesfirecat

It all sort of comes down to probabilities but most likely keep going and you hit the person in front of you.

Needs of the many....

Granted it's f***ing easy for me/anyone say that when its all just words on a computer screen.

Does that test take into account that you will probably swerve out of reflex instead of taking the time to make an ethical decision? Especially since your mind is probably concentrating on driving since you have a bus full of injured people to safely deliver.

109 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:13:43pm

re: #85 Petero1818

So as I understand him the choice is to have two parties that are fairly similar but differentiated by minor variations of the same theme, (he calls this essentially a one party system) or 2 parties where one governs in perpetuity from a center left - or center perspective and one permanently polls at around 20-25% of the electorate (and shrinking every cycle). What is the point he is trying to make. At least he can sleep at night?

he believes his own bullshit about "what liberals believe"

as do all teabaggers

110 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:13:54pm

re: #100 b_snark

You can choose to shut it down without installing the updates.

not if you miss the window while you are doing other things. Or if you have auto selected.

111 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:14:35pm

warren/grayson 2016

112 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:14:37pm

Problem I see with the GOP is they're too obsessed with social issues and not flexible enough on economic issues. There's a reason why some very wealthy counties actually favored Obama despite the attempts to cast Obama as a foe of the wealthy.

113 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:14:44pm

re: #94 Ghost of Tom Joad

Again, it's a big ? because who knows what the next 4 years bring. If things are good, then I'm sure Biden, Hillary, or possibly a Dem Congresscritter with high recognition goes for it (if Biden/Hill don't run, because they'd probably be automatic, and I highly doubt they'd both take a shot at it). If things are bad, the Dems probably run an outside-the-box guy that can sort of distance themselves from the current state of things.

I agree. One key indicator is whether Hillary takes a cabinet post in the President's second term. If she doesn't then she is running. Biden will run for sure. I think there are a number of strong Democrats waiting in the wings. Actually the Republicans have a good lot of up and coming contenders too.

114 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:14:48pm

re: #110 Petero1818

No, you can only stop it if it's a legitimate update.

/Derp

115 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:14:58pm

re: #93 Euesperides invidius

I think it is important to remember that Romney almost did win. Maybe if it weren't for the 47% remark and some other things, he'd be #43.

His dissembling was off-putting to a lot of voters, but it seems that many people either believed his lies, were totally ignorant of facts and felt Obama should pay for high unemployment, or rationalized that his lying was an understandable truth-stretching that was justified by the need for victory.


Mother Jones News
scores as the most influential journal of the 2012 campaign. Who'd have guessed?

116 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:15:09pm

re: #29 JamesWI

Shep Smith needs to get off Fox News. He actually could have some credibility elsewhere.

I've been saying that since his Katrina meltdowns. I guess they pay him really well over there.

117 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:15:43pm

re: #102 Kragar

Plus, the Romans actually learned from the Battle of Cannae, something I don't see the Religious Right doing from their loss last night.

that's because they aren't really religious. They are idolators --of a men on earth wants their money.

118 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:15:59pm

re: #98 Randall Gross

I'm looking forward to Warren 2020 or Warren 2024

Why wait......Obama was in Congress 2 years and started to run.

119 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:16:37pm

re: #109 engineer cat

he believes his own bullshit about "what liberals believe"

as do all teabaggers

When you see "others" not as individuals but as a stereotypical "group" you can read their minds and claim to know what they all "believe" or "think."

120 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:16:54pm

Pat Robertson on Obama's Victory: 'What is Going On with the American People?

Robertson, who throughout the program held out hope that Karl Rove’s prediction that Romney could win Ohio would materialize, was stunned that Obama was the winner: “What have they got? He doesn’t seem to have any program and yet he’s been able to win a re-election, what is going on with the American people?” Bonicelli said that Americans will spend their next four years “regretting this decision” and Robertson warned that the U.S. is looking more like Western Europe and even Zaire.

121 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:17:00pm

re: #102 Kragar

Plus, the Romans actually learned from the Battle of Cannae, something I don't see the Religious Right doing from their loss last night.

Why don't we just call it their Stalingrad then?

The republican's went into it with the wind at their backs (2010 elections) but they kept expecting their opponents to just roll over and die for them, and kept pouring supplies into the fire long past the point that they were only going to end up wasting a lot of resources and looking like complete idiots.

(Or is is that comparison a Godwin violation?)

122 b_Snark  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:17:32pm

I need numbers to analyze. Anything will do. The number of toes on a three toed sloth, the number of fairies dancing on the head of a pope. Anything.

Aarrgghhh!

123 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:17:43pm

re: #49 Randall Gross

My prediction is that they will double down on stupid, further isolate themselves and focus state / local where in many states their ground game is creaming the Dems. If the Democrats ever hope to regain the house they are going to have to do a lot better with local candidates in Southern states -- three demographic directions are opening a window of opportunity for them wide: Ageing Republican base, more retirees heading south, and the fact that urban to rural migrations are reversing.

The problem is that the religious right/tea party wing does have a genuine constituency and it is large enough to be completely dominant in certain backward pockets. They are absolutely dominant here in Lubbock County, for example. They can't come anywhere close to national appeal, though, and they are too rigid ideologically to function as part of a broader coalition.
They can't win at the national level, and their insistence on their way or the highway drives out anyone who can. They will continue to exist as a regional force. The question is whether the Republican will be identical to that regional force, and reduced to the that status.
Right now, the far right is far too well entrenched to be thrown out entirely. They will not moderate their views, since their real objective is marketing rather than power. The only solution for the national future of the GOP is that the far right will manage to discredit itself completely over the next four years. I don't hope for that, since it would involve some despicable rhetoric and actions, but it is what I think can happen.

124 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:18:13pm

re: #116 Lidane

I've been saying that since his Katrina meltdowns. I guess they pay him really well over there.

Yeah I like Shep most of the time. I think he probably brings too much personal emotion to the job. Sometimes, I think he borders on unprofessionalism in that regard.

Brit Hume always seems to keep himself even. I get the feeling he is in the wrong decade most of the time.

125 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:18:16pm
126 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:18:34pm

re: #120 Kragar

Pat Robertson on Obama's Victory: 'What is Going On with the American People?

Pat Robertson can fuck off. Ever since that loathsome piece of shit said we deserved 9-11, I've wished nothing but the worst for him.

127 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:18:35pm
128 erik_t  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:18:55pm

re: #120 Kragar

Pat Robertson on Obama's Victory: 'What is Going On with the American People?

[Obama] doesn’t seem to have any program

IMAX-level projection.

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:19:06pm

re: #122 b_snark

I need numbers to analyze. Anything will do. The number of toes on a three toed sloth, the number of fairies dancing on the head of a pope. Anything.

Aarrgghhh!

barometric pressure and emergency room visits.

130 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:19:21pm

re: #66 Kragar

Bryan Fischer: Yesterday was Pearl Harbor; today we start planning for Normandy

Actually, I would say a better analogy was that yesterday was the Battle of Cannae, but any way...

Stalingrad

131 b_Snark  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:19:21pm

Oh, shit. I've lost it.

I'm counting the number of holes in a pegboard.

I'm really starting to shake.

132 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:19:45pm
133 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:19:48pm

re: #120 Kragar

I would be interested to know in what way he thinks its looking like Zaire or DRC as most people who have not been in a coma since 97 might call it.

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:19:53pm

re: #131 b_snark

Oh, shit. I've lost it.

I'm counting the number of holes in a pegboard.

I'm really starting to shake.

a little OCD thing going on there?

135 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:19:57pm

re: #102 Kragar

Plus, the Romans actually learned from the Battle of Cannae, something I don't see the Religious Right doing from their loss last night.

after cannae, the carthaginians expected the romans to act like other peoples in the ancient world acted after losing so badly, and submit

but the romans never gave up - they regrouped, figured out why they lost, and tried again, the stubborn bastards

that's what eventually made them masters of the world

teabaggers, on the other hand, will make up another fictional scenario to 'explain' to themselves why it wasn't their fault, and will therefore only learn imaginary lessons

136 Pete Puma  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:20:02pm

What would the GOP's Pon Farr problem be?

137 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:20:22pm

re: #130 Shiplord Kirel

Stalingrad

Beat yah by two minutes. GMTA

138 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:20:35pm

re: #121 jamesfirecat

Why don't we just call it their Stalingrad then?

The republican's went into it with the wind at their backs (2010 elections) but they kept expecting their opponents to just roll over and die for them, and kept pouring resources into the fire long past the point that they were only going to end up wasting a lot of money and looking like complete idiots.

(Or is is that comparison a Godwin violation?)

I wouldn't call it a Godwin violation. You're not saying they're ideologically like the Nazis and besides calling it Stalingrad means we're the Soviets heh. Honestly, I don't have a big background in military history so I'm not sure what I'd compare it to. I prefer comparing stuff like this to past elections. This is a little like 1948 and a bizzaro 2004(2004 had like seven gay marriages ban referendums pass while this year had gay marriage legalized in four states)

139 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:20:39pm

re: #120 Kragar

Pat Robertson on Obama's Victory: 'What is Going On with the American People?

"...snip. Bonicelli said that Americans will spend their next four years “regretting this decision” and Robertson warned that the U.S. is looking more like Western Europe and even Zaire."

Yeah, Alabama reminds me a lot of Venice--churches everywhere and water in the streets.

140 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:20:40pm

re: #136 Pete Puma

What would the GOP's Pon Farr problem be?

They seem to be a perpetual state of it, from what I an see.

141 calochortus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:21:39pm

You'd think as a liberal "taker", a parasite on society as it were, I could just sit here and socialize all day. Sadly, there is stuff to do, and a little victory celebration to attend tonight :-)
Have a good day, all. I know you will.

142 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:21:48pm

re: #86 Charles Johnson

I love booting up Windows XP when I haven't in a while. Only 92 high priority updates waiting to be installed... 60 of which are security updates for XP.

I get those in small, almost painless, daily increments.

143 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:22:06pm

Psst Robertson that austerity that you wingnuts love to praise. Its origins are in Western Europe. But I know "Western Europe" is just your buzz word to your moronic viewers who hear it and think about mass socialism.

144 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:22:50pm

I think it's telling that the Red States have the attributes of needing entitlements the most, yet they are the ones voting against them.

Explain this to me. please

145 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:22:57pm

re: #132 Gus

[Embedded content]

Same image here.

Image: Obama-America.jpg

146 Randall Gross  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:23:33pm

re: #123 Shiplord Kirel

I think that might start changing over the next decade or so. Many people retiring are going to be faced with having to enact retirement plan Z: a trailer in Lubbock. The population there will also become more Latino.

These trends will of course be counter acted by Lubbock's "exurban sprawl" which makes it harder to form an urban constituency that acts together.

147 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:23:39pm

re: #144 Gretchen G.Tiger

I think it's telling that the Red States have the attributes of needing entitlements the most, yet they are the ones voting against them.

Explain this to me. please

Social issues. Or in places like West Virginia, coal.

148 aagcobb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:24:13pm

re: #71 Big Steve

Well the GOP problem might be solved by the Democrats themselves if in 2016 the leading contenders are Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. I suspect both will take a shot at it. There was a time where Hillary was a fresh choice but I think that has passed. And before you all pounce....if Hillary were to run she gets my vote.

I think Hillary would just solidify the gender gap in favor of Democrats.

149 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:24:17pm

re: #121 jamesfirecat

Why don't we just call it their Stalingrad then?

The republican's went into it with the wind at their backs (2010 elections) but they kept expecting their opponents to just roll over and die for them, and kept pouring supplies into the fire long past the point that they were only going to end up wasting a lot of resources and looking like complete idiots.

(Or is is that comparison a Godwin violation?)

it's not a godwin because imho what you are really saying is that they made the fatal mistake of underestimating their 'enemies'

american generals never do that!

150 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:25:07pm

re: #144 Gretchen G.Tiger

I think it's telling that the Red States have the attributes of needing entitlements the most, yet they are the ones voting against them.

Explain this to me. please

Black Jimmy Carter!

Or something.

151 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:25:17pm

Somewhere Sandmonkey is crying
Local reactions vary to Egypt's online pornography ban

Islamist forces welcome, civil forces condemn prosecutor-general's decision to implement court ruling banning pornographic websites in Egypt

152 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:26:13pm

re: #147 HappyBenghazi

Social issues. Or in places like West Virginia, coal.

lack of creative thinking?

or ability to adapt.

I think the doom of cool has been pretty obvious for a while now. Why don't people retrain or move?

153 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:26:43pm

re: #131 b_snark

Oh, shit. I've lost it.

I'm counting the number of holes in a pegboard.

I'm really starting to shake.

I suggest taking up cribbage. Lots of nice counting there.

154 BongCrodny  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:27:17pm

Senator John Tester of Montana must be the luckiest guy on the planet.

Six years ago when he first ran for Senate, he beat the incumbent senator, Conrad Burns, by less than one percent of the vote.

The Libertarian candidate, Stan Jones, took 2.5% of the vote. If you accept the premise that Libertarians would likely vote Republican if there was no Libertarian candidate on the ballot, Jones's siphoning of votes allowed Tester to squeak by.

This year, Tester did a little better -- he beat his opponent by 4% (in a state Romney carried by 13%).

Dan Cox, the Libertarian candidate, took 6.5% of the vote.

Tester's Republican opponent, Denny Rehberg, contributed $5,000 to Todd Akin's campaign.

While Tester may not be as liberal as I'd like, he's a damn sight better than Rehberg.

And so, a tip of the fedora to Montana Libertarians. Thanks for keeping another clown out of the U.S. Senate.

155 aagcobb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:27:40pm

re: #93 Euesperides invidius

I think it is important to remember that Romney almost did win. Maybe if it weren't for the 47% remark and some other things, he'd be #43.

His dissembling was off-putting to a lot of voters, but it seems that many people either believed his lies, were totally ignorant of facts and felt Obama should pay for high unemployment, or rationalized that his lying was an understandable truth-stretching that was justified by the need for victory.

Yes, but in four years, the demographics will be even worse for the GOP unless they can figure out how to appeal to minorities and single women.

156 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:28:17pm

re: #103 Gretchen G.Tiger

Yeah, it's a day of cool down and regrouping.

I feel so calm today.

It's like the day after Game 4 of the World Series, only President Obama gets to be champ for four more years.

I really hope he plays hard-ball with the GOP in the coming months, and that we manage to get the house back in 2014 so he can end his presidency doing even more great shit for our country. I want him to be a lame duck president with a mandate who exercises it all the way through until the end. Of course, that'll require Congress and the Senate work with him and not just focus on fundraising and campaigning for the next four years.

As far as 2016 goes, I'll wait for the last person to declare their candidacy and see who that is. They'll get my initial support unless they're bat-shit crazy.

157 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:29:50pm

I really love this organization.

" “We also hope Mr. Obama will stand firm in his promises to respect the religious liberty of all Americans. The administration should stop the preferential treatment that the US bishops have received in recent years. America’s 60 million Catholics are an important constituency, but policymakers should know that the US bishops do not speak for all Catholics in matters of public policy. In a poll released last month, Catholic voters overwhelmingly rejected the interference of the US Catholic bishops in politics and in women’s healthcare decisions and access. Catholics firmly believe that access to comprehensive healthcare is a matter of social justice, and no healthcare can be called comprehensive without reproductive healthcare including access to contraception and abortion. Catholics also believe that decisions about healthcare should be made by an individual and her doctor, not by her boss or her bishop."

They are the ones that put out one of my favorite graphics

158 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:30:20pm

re: #155 aagcobb

Yes, but in four years, the demographics will be even worse for the GOP unless they can figure out how to appeal to minorities and single women.

I can't wait until the first xenophobic anti-abortion "jobs jobs jobs" bill of 2013.

159 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:30:30pm

Beck on Romney’s loss: ‘Man, sometimes God really sucks’

During his radio show the next morning, Beck told listeners that he had realized Romney was going to lose while praying before the polls opened on Tuesday.

“Man, sometimes God really sucks,” the radio host lamented. “I got up yesterday at 3:00 in the morning and I knew. And I couldn’t sleep and I started to say my prayers and I got up and kneeled down by the edge of my bed and I knew that — or I suspected that my mind’s not God’s mind, and the peace and the comfort that he had given me and so many of my friends was not about an election.”

He added: “Just like those Christians that rolled up the Dead Sea Scrolls and put them in pots. I don’t know what happened to those Christians but they hid them. They hid them and they preserved them because it was important. The Bible was never wiped out, but the people who originally wrote the Bible were scattered.”

It was God's will, Glenn. Now enjoy the blessings.

160 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:30:57pm

re: #155 aagcobb

Yes, but in four years, the demographics will be even worse for the GOP unless they can figure out how to appeal to minorities and single women.

Palin/Rubio - Mark my words.

161 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:32:17pm

You know who else is sad today?
Assange says victorious Obama 'wolf in sheep's clothing'

"Obama seems to be a nice man, and that is precisely the problem," the 41-year-old Australian told AFP, after the president defeated Republican Mitt Romney on Tuesday night to sweep back into the White House.

"It's better to have a sheep in wolf's clothing than a wolf in sheep's clothing."

Assange complained of the "persecution" of WikiLeaks by Obama's government.

He added: "All of the activities against WikiLeaks by the United States have occurred under an Obama administration.

"The Republican party has not been an effective restraining force on government excesses over the last four years.
...
Assange urged the United States to free Bradley Manning, the soldier accused of leaking a huge cache of classified military documents to WikiLeaks and has been held in solitary confinement in a military prison for over two years.

"The re-election of Barack Obama coincides with the 899th day of Bradley Manning's confinement," Assange said.

162 SpikeDad  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:32:25pm

Romney lost because he a) has no character and b) has no core values. If he had either, he would have done what President Obama did for the liberal/progressives - get them to join him in his vision whether they wanted to or not.

Since Romney had nothing to say nor did he believe in anything, he would easily and without a single thought tell everyone anything they wanted to hear. Naturally once everyone was voting, there was bound to be plenty of folks that didn't like what they heard no matter what it was.

163 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:32:28pm

re: #160 Petero1818

Palin/Rubio - Mark my words.

Palin will no longer be sexy grandma, and her syntax will not have improved.

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:32:34pm

re: #159 Kragar

Beck on Romney’s loss: ‘Man, sometimes God really sucks’

It was God's will, Glenn. Now enjoy the blessings.

As an believer of something, I really take exception to that sentiment. What an arrogant child. And supposedly recovering person. He needs a new sponsor.

165 BongCrodny  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:33:18pm

re: #160 Petero1818

Palin/Rubio - Mark my words.

"Pubio" would be an awesome portmanteau for the campaign.

166 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:33:31pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

You know who else is sad today?
Assange says victorious Obama 'wolf in sheep's clothing'

aw, just give that one another swirlie.

167 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:34:01pm

re: #144 Gretchen G.Tiger

I think it's telling that the Red States have the attributes of needing entitlements the most, yet they are the ones voting against them.

Explain this to me. please

Actually going to pick a fight with you......don't know what you mean by "needing entitlements" but one would be unemployment rate to which I see quite a few Red states doing well and some blue states doing poorly. Unemployment by State

168 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:34:09pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

You know who else is sad today?
Assange says victorious Obama 'wolf in sheep's clothing'

Why doesn't it surprise me that you'd keep tabs on Assange?

169 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:35:28pm
170 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:35:34pm

re: #159 Kragar

Beck on Romney’s loss: ‘Man, sometimes God really sucks’

It was God's will, Glenn. Now enjoy the blessings.

Beck has really been thumping that Bible lately.

171 Thorzdad  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:35:45pm

re: #74 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

What do you lizards think the chances are that a non-trivial portion of Tea-Partiers and social conservatives defects from the "RINOs" in the GOP and tries to form their own party?

At the rate that they're pushing-out anyone "not conservative enough", I don't see any need for them to leave the party. They're absorbing the GOP. It's the remaining "RINOs" that are going to have to form a new party.

172 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:36:10pm

re: #170 Charles Johnson

Beck has really been thumping that Bible lately.

He picked the wrong election day to stop drinking.

173 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:36:37pm

re: #159 Kragar

“Just like those Christians that rolled up the Dead Sea Scrolls and put them in pots. I don’t know what happened to those Christians but they hid them.

Maybe its just me, but I am not terribly fond of Jews being called Christians. The most commonly held beliefs around the origins of the scrolls suggest that these were Jews that hid them. Given that they were found amidst mikvahs and tefillin boxes.

174 allegro  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:36:57pm

re: #120 Kragar

Pat Robertson on Obama's Victory: 'What is Going On with the American People?

What's going on with the American people is rejection of a hateful party filled with hateful people.

175 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:37:09pm

re: #159 Kragar

Beck on Romney’s loss: ‘Man, sometimes God really sucks’

It was God's will, Glenn. Now enjoy the blessings.

That's because God was busy trying to figure out how to cure 10s of thousands of people with stage V cancer around the world yesterday. Didn't have time for some election in Murica.

Whatever happened to free will?

176 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:37:12pm
177 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:37:21pm

re: #168 darthstar

Why doesn't it surprise me that you'd keep tabs on Assange?

Aren't you glad OWS fizzled so quickly that it never became an election issue? If Dems had to pander to Wikileaks and Anon it would have been a disaster.

179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:37:31pm

re: #167 Big Steve

Actually going to pick a fight with you......don't know what you mean by "needing entitlements" but one would be unemployment rate to which I see quite a few Red states doing well and some blue states doing poorly. Unemployment by State

hmmm, I remember something about welfare and the confederate states. I'll have to do some digging. The research part of my brain has taken the day off for some much needed R&R.

I'll concede the point until tomorrow.

180 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:37:50pm

re: #169 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Don't fuck with Big Bird's MOMMY!!!

181 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:37:52pm

re: #163 Decatur Deb

Palin will no longer be sexy grandma, and her syntax will not have improved.

Yes, true, but now, past is prologue there, you betcha and thanks for comin out to the show.

182 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:38:00pm

re: #173 Petero1818

Maybe its just me, but I am not terribly fond of Jews being called Christians. The most commonly held beliefs around the origins of the scrolls suggest that these were Jews that hid them. Given that they were found amidst mikvahs and tefillin boxes.

I'm sure they'll be retroactively considered Christian once Glenn Beck is done baptizing their corpses. (Beck is a Mormon right?)

183 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:38:29pm

re: #175 Gus

That's because God was busy trying to figure out how to cure 10s of thousands of people with stage V cancer around the world yesterday. Didn't have time for some election in Murica.

Whatever happened to free will?

Or Beck, Robertson, Fisher, etc. realize that they have been praying to Crom and he cares not what they say or think since they show insufficient valor and too much concern with their own legacy.

184 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:38:45pm

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Find me a single occasion anywhere where the Obama administration ever considered pandering to Wikileaks or Anon in the first place.

I'll wait.

185 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:39:11pm

re: #171 Thorzdad

At the rate that they're pushing-out anyone "not conservative enough", I don't see any need for them to leave the party. They're absorbing the GOP. It's the remaining "RINOs" that are going to have to form a new party.

That may have been the intention from the beginning. Starting a new party is hard. Tea Partiers saw a used one they could have altered to fit.

186 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:39:12pm

re: #179 Gretchen G.Tiger

hmmm, I remember something about welfare and the confederate states. I'll have to do some digging. The research part of my brain has taken the day off for some much needed R&R.

I'll concede the point until tomorrow.

It's not just welfare, but total inflow of Yankee tax dollars. A good bit is military base impact, concentrated more in the South.

187 Big Steve  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:39:15pm

re: #170 Charles Johnson

Beck has really been thumping that Bible lately.

Tough day to be on the Religious Right....syllogism goes like this:

1. There is a God
2. God is on our side
3. Our side lost

Therefore either God does not exist or God is not on our side (or someone threw God on the roof and he can't get down)

188 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:39:16pm

re: #182 jamesfirecat

I'm sure they'll be retroactively considered Christian once Glenn Beck is done baptizing their corpses. (Beck is a Mormon right?)

For sure, in the same way Abraham and Isaac were the first Muslims.

189 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:39:42pm

re: #120 Kragar

Pat Robertson on Obama's Victory: 'What is Going On with the American People?

"Zaire"? The country formerly known as Zaire hasn't gone by that name since the late 90s. Nice work looking like a senile old fool, Pat.

Also, do the wingnuts seriously think Western Europe is like the poorest parts of Africa? Really? Yeah, because Vienna really reminds me of Kinshasa.

190 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:39:57pm

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Aren't you glad OWS fizzled so quickly that it never became an election issue? If Dems had to pander to Wikileaks and Anon it would have been a disaster.

Aren't you glad we weren't hit by a meteor two weeks ago?
Man, that would've been a disaster.

191 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:40:42pm

Say there was a massive asteroid headed for Earth. Try praying and see what happens with that asteroid. I'll wait.

192 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:40:49pm

re: #183 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Or Beck, Robertson, Fisher, etc. realize that they have been praying to Crom and he cares not what they say or think since they show insufficient valor and too much concern with their own legacy.

Don't trash talk Crom. If anything those ass burglars have been praying to Khorne, but seriously, don't associate them with Crom.

193 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:41:11pm

re: #191 Gus

Say there was a massive asteroid headed for Earth. Try praying and see what happens with that asteroid. I'll wait.

I'll wait too.
In orbit.
Of the moon.

194 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:41:13pm

OT, But I think I just got smited for voting for Obama. Windows 7 Pro went totally apeshit on me. Had to reformat the HD and start the install procedure.
Currently downloading 122 updates. Then I get to start reinstalling the rest of the programs I use.There is currently no joy in Twinky Flats at this point.
At least I have my laptop dinosaur to fall back on.

195 SpikeDad  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:41:16pm

re: #170 Charles Johnson

Beck has really been thumping that Bible lately.

Sometimes I envy the RWNJs and religious nuts. To have one's beliefs be so impervious to evaluation or evidence that nothing that happens can change them. It must make life so much easier than regular folks that constantly have to reevaluate and revise their opinions and beliefs.

196 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:41:38pm

re: #170 Charles Johnson

Beck has really been thumping that Bible lately.

FTFY

197 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:41:40pm

re: #193 Varek Raith

I'll wait too.
In orbit.
Of the moon.

That might be too close to Earth. Lots of splatter.

198 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:42:19pm

re: #197 Gus

That might be too close to Earth. Lots of splatter.

Really big one then?
Hmmm, I'll be at Alpha Centauri.

199 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:42:39pm

re: #111 engineer cat

warren/grayson 2016

Possible. But I'd rather see Tammy Baldwin, Wisconsin's new junior Senator, make a grab for the ring. She'd make a hell of a president &, being openly gay, would make the far right choke even harder than Obama does :)

200 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:42:45pm

re: #191 Gus

Say there was a massive asteroid headed for Earth. Try praying and see what happens with that asteroid. I'll wait.

OMG! THERE IS A MASSIVE ASTEROID HEADED FOR EARTH? WILL IT GET HERE ON DECEMBER 12?

201 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:42:49pm

re: #198 Varek Raith

Really big one then?
Hmmm, I'll be at Alpha Centauri.

Yep. Complete annihilation.

202 jaunte  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:43:05pm

re: #8 Kragar

The GOPs solution: Destroy the Kobayashi Maru themselves, then doctor the logs to make it look like the Klingons started it.

Or, change the name of the wessel to Benghazi Maru.

203 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:43:17pm

re: #187 Big Steve

Tough day to be on the Religious Right....syllogism goes like this:

1. There is a God
2. God is on our side
3. Our side lost

Therefore either God does not exist or God is not on our side (or someone threw God on the roof and he can't get down)

You forget: "WE WERE LACKING IN FAITH AND HE IS TESTING US! WE MUST REDOUBLE OUR EFFORTS!"

204 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:43:32pm

Obama needs to tackle immigration reform to consolidate the demographic advantage.

It's a complete no-brainer.

The Repubs will have to choose between: (1) further alienating minorities or, (2) alienating their extremist base.

205 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:43:38pm

re: #200 darthstar

OMG! THERE IS A MASSIVE ASTEROID HEADED FOR EARTH? WILL IT GET HERE ON DECEMBER 12?

Well, if we have 100 years to prepare see Volokh.

206 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:43:42pm

re: #136 Pete Puma

What would the GOP's Pon Farr problem be?

No-one wants to be their partner.

207 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:44:05pm
208 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:44:13pm

Maybe God is just trolling you RWers?
Food for thought.

209 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:44:34pm

re: #203 Kragar

You forget: "WE WERE LACKING IN FAITH AND HE IS TESTING US! WE MUST REDOUBLE OUR EFFORTS!"

Throw 10 more virgins into the volcano --quick!

:)

210 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:44:45pm

re: #190 Varek Raith

Aren't you glad we weren't hit by a meteor two weeks ago?
Man, that would've been a disaster.

Gigantic objects from space always arrive when we have black presidents...

211 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:45:06pm

re: #179 Gretchen G.Tiger

hmmm, I remember something about welfare and the confederate states. I'll have to do some digging. The research part of my brain has taken the day off for some much needed R&R.

I'll concede the point until tomorrow.

Go to the Table on this page and click the sort arrows under "Net Contribution Per Capita." That's your argument, and you're right.

212 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:45:15pm

re: #204 Talking Point Detective

Obama needs to tackle immigration reform to consolidate the demographic advantage.

It's a complete no-brainer.

The Repubs will have to choose between: (1) further alienating minorities or, (2) alienating their extremist base.

At this point, all he needs to do is get Puerto Rico moving forward on statehood.

213 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:45:23pm

re: #210 jamesfirecat

Gigantic objects from space always arrive when we have black presidents...

Yeah, but, Morgan Freeman!

214 Sionainn  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:45:48pm

re: #187 Big Steve

Tough day to be on the Religious Right....syllogism goes like this:

1. There is a God
2. God is on our side
3. Our side lost

Therefore either God does not exist or God is not on our side (or someone threw God on the roof and he can't get down)

You forgot #4. God is testing us.

215 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:46:02pm

re: #213 Varek Raith

Yeah, but, Morgan Freeman!

made a great G-d! Really, probably the best yet.

216 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:46:03pm

re: #209 Gretchen G.Tiger

Throw 10 more virgins into the volcano --quick!

:)

Thank God for Saddlebacking, we've still got some left...

217 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:46:26pm

Dragonfire congrats on the promotion. Nice work, good writing.

Respectfully I have come to a slightly different conclusion about the GOP. Just from my perspective as a Republican exile now with no affiliation-The GOP needs to fight for it's heart and center. I think they need to forcefully engage & kick the Tea Party in the ass. Completely. For a time, anger those people. Look, they are not going to go libertarian, certainly not Democratic. They have no other party to vote at all. there is no equivalent of the Green or Peace and Freedom parties on the right. Let the theocrats not have a party.

Return to sanity. Put an end to the anti Roe v Wade influence, boot those who say god before the law. Reach out to the smaller gov fiscal cons. They can be resolved into a moderate right wing party. The party of Lugar, Huntsman etc. I'm not holding my breath. But that's my thoughts for them.

Look I'm done with parties. If the GOP keeps the TP it will fall. Become a little regional party unable to prevail in the WH or Senate. Fine with me.

I believe better opposition makes for a better administration. My message to the GOP would be as above. I'm not rejoining. But if Huntsman had been the man yesterday, he might (never got the general election vetting) have gotten my vote. If I was Obama, I'd think to myself how lucky I was the GOP put up such a buffoon. 'Cause i would know that I might have lost. I'd know how bad that would have been. And not just personally either.

Sleep well and congratulations Mr President. Your Democratic successor may well face a better opponent than you did. We will all be better off if so.

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:46:35pm

re: #211 goddamnedfrank

Go to the Table on this page and click the sort arrows under "Net Contribution Per Capita." That's your argument, and you're right.

What page? and thanks for saving me the research time.

219 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:46:36pm

re: #210 jamesfirecat

Gigantic objects from space always arrive when we have black presidents...

I'll get James Earl Jones on the phone.

220 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:46:56pm
221 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:46:57pm

re: #216 Kragar

Thank God for Saddlebacking, we've still got some left...

TMI

222 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:47:20pm

re: #111 engineer dog

warren/grayson 2016

Warren needs to win a second term in the Senate and run for President in 2020 (unless we get some other dynamic star to win in 2016 and take two terms). Chances are the GOP will field someone from the new 'moderate' GOP that surfaces in the next two years. I have no idea who that will be, but it will be a hard fought race, and unless Citizens United is overturned, probably a $4billion one.

And with that kind of money, advertising won't be the way to buy votes. Building community centers, schools, buying fire engines, and creating minority outreach programs in target states will be how they'll do it. All 'privately' funded to emphasize the lack of need for government.

223 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:47:32pm

re: #221 Gretchen G.Tiger

TMI

Yeah, he does that.
Just ignore him.
/

224 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:48:58pm

re: #223 Varek Raith

Yeah, he does that.
Just ignore him.
/

Kragar the Horrible

//

225 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:49:21pm

Arizona might be a swing state in 2016. By 2020, Texas will also be in play.

226 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:49:26pm

re: #211 goddamnedfrank

Now edited for linky!

227 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:50:16pm

re: #212 Lidane

At this point, all he needs to do is get Puerto Rico moving forward on statehood.

Interesting. Haven't really given that much thought. Might be too much of a reach to be politically viable.

228 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:50:26pm
229 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:50:46pm

re: #101 erik_t

Ehhhhh. He'd be closer on the popular vote, but the GOP's structural challenges in the Electoral College are not trivial.

You can only capture so many votes without ever expressing actual ideas.

Over 57 million votes apparently. Without the Dems' ground game success (not to mention the auto bailout) + Romney missteps (47%, pays no taxes, car elevator, Cayman islands), Obama could have easily lost.

230 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:51:19pm

Anyone posted on this yet?:

President Obama's call for unity in his acceptance speech in Chicago didn't quite make it down South.

A riot broke out at The University of Mississippi - known as Ole Miss - as more than 400 students yelled out racial slurs and burned Obama-Biden campaign posters after the Democratic incumbent was crowned the victor of the 2012 Presidential Election on Tuesday.

Emotions ran high among the angered college conservatives in Oxford, Mississippi.

231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:52:07pm

re: #211 goddamnedfrank

Go to the Table on this page and click the sort arrows under "Net Contribution Per Capita." That's your argument, and you're right.

EXCELLENT, thank you.

Now, why do they vote they way they do and say they don't need the Federal Government?

232 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:52:17pm

re: #228 Gretchen G.Tiger

lol

233 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:54:44pm
234 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:57:48pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

You know who else is sad today?
Assange says victorious Obama 'wolf in sheep's clothing'

Good point. The Obama-is-a-Marxist crowd probably forget that real Marxists were hoping for a Romney victory. Obama keeps the proletariat happy with his reforms and half-measures that leave the workers with a glimmer of hope that the system can work for them, when in fact it will continue benefitting the 1% at their expense just as it always has. Nothing would help swell the ranks of real socialists and Marxists better than Romney's class warfare.

235 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:58:16pm

re: #231 Gretchen G.Tiger

EXCELLENT, thank you.

Now, why do they vote they way they do and say they don't need the Federal Government?

I've seen a similar thing in my Stepdad, who inherited the vast majority of his wealth, and my Mom who immediately quit working at 49 when she married him. There's a need among some people who've been given a lot by external forces to live in denial, to lie about reality and keep up pretenses that everything they have is the result of their own individual efforts and a lifetime of hard work.

236 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:59:24pm
237 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:59:27pm
238 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:59:34pm
239 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 1:59:37pm

re: #210 jamesfirecat

Gigantic objects from space always arrive when we have black presidents...

I want to know who's phone is currently ringing with a call from Mr Shadow.
/

240 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:01:36pm

I sure wish I had Mitt Romney's phone number. I'm betting his biggest regret is he'll never know what it's like to get a 3am phone call, and I could help with that.

241 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:02:19pm

re: #235 goddamnedfrank

I've seen a similar thing in my Stepdad, who inherited the vast majority of his wealth, and my Mom who immediately quit working at 49 when she married him. There's a need among some people who've been given a lot by external forces to live in denial, to lie about reality and keep up pretenses that everything they have is the result of their own individual efforts and a lifetime of hard work.

Yeah, I get that from my parents too! Yet, they don't get nearly as upset when the stock market crashes and they lose their hard earned money. They also act like the money they make in the market is actually money they earned thru hard work.

242 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:02:35pm

re: #240 darthstar

The best revenge is knowing that Mitt knows that he sold his soul--and got nothing in return.

243 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:03:19pm

Matthews starting out his show by basically calling himself an idiot for his comment saying he was glad Sandy hit so it could show Obama as a leader.

244 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:03:53pm

re: #243 JamesWI

Matthews starting out his show by basically calling himself an idiot for his comment saying he was glad Sandy hit so it could show Obama as a leader.

alcohol and punditry do not go together.

245 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:05:05pm

As a Trek fan, I guess I should point out that the Expanded Universe of Trek detailed more the Kobayashi Maru, as well as Kirk's experience with it. Like in the Abrams film, Kirk ended up taking the test three times, the first two times losing it but showing reaction times well above average. The third time, he reprogrammed the game to create a "level playing field," for which he was given a commendation for original thinking...and 90 demerit points, just short of the expulsion limit.

246 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:05:24pm

re: #243 JamesWI

Matthews starting out his show by basically calling himself an idiot for his comment saying he was glad Sandy hit so it could show Obama as a leader.

That's the least he should do.

247 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:05:31pm

Humans caused Great Barrier Reef collapse: study

The study, published in Tuesday’s edition of The Proceedings of the Royal Society B, is the first to connect soil and sediment filled with toxic chemicals from fertilizers and pesticides prior to the decades of climate-driven decline seen in the Great Barrier Reef, one of the largest living structures on the planet.

The study finds that the effect of this pollution basically stopped an important type of fast-growing coral, called Acropra, from growing in damaged areas, preventing the reef from repairing itself after major disturbances like storms or damage by boats dragging anchors.

“There was a very significant shift in the coral community composition that was associated with the colonization of Queensland,” marine biologist and co-author John Pandolfi told Live Science. “They just weren’t able to come back after the 1950s.”

248 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:06:10pm

re: #242 Euesperides invidius

... except his party blaming him for losing a winnable election.

249 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:08:33pm

re: #245 Targetpractice

As a Trek fan, I guess I should point out that the Expanded Universe of Trek detailed more the Kobayashi Maru, as well as Kirk's experience with it. Like in the Abrams film, Kirk ended up taking the test three times, the first two times losing it but showing reaction times well above average. The third time, he reprogrammed the game to create a "level playing field," for which he was given a commendation for original thinking...and 90 demerit points, just short of the expulsion limit.

Basically, when faced with a no-win situation, one must think out of the box and be willing to take risks.

Can the GOP as it is now, do that?

251 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:09:45pm

re: #242 Euesperides invidius

The best revenge is knowing that Mitt knows that he sold his soul--and got nothing in return.

I wonder how that whole "Lying for Jesus" thing goes when your lies end up being completely ineffectual. He might have just lost his celestial kingdom.../

252 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:11:36pm

re: #249 Gretchen G.Tiger

Basically, when faced with a no-win situation, one must think out of the box and be willing to take risks.

Can the GOP as it is now, do that?

So long as the Tea Party holds the threat of primary challenges against Republicans already in office? No, I don't see it happening. Citizens United gave the Tea Party the greatest gift possible: The ability to match and beat the GOP leadership's control over campaign funding.

253 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:12:12pm

NOM Admits Its Anti-Gay Mission Moving Forward Is Entirely Religious

we are disappointed, but we are not defeated! We are fighting for a true and just cause—God’s institution of marriage. This is a social compact that is not only ordained by the Almighty, it has served society very well. It’s a cause worth fighting and with your support we will continue to do just that. [...]

Though we are disappointed over these losses, we remain faithful to our mission and committed to the cause of preserving marriage as God designed it. Marriage is a true and just cause, and we will never abandon the field of battle just because we experienced a setback. There is much work to do. With your continued support and with faith in God, we begin that process now.

BEGONE ZEALOTS!

254 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:12:42pm

re: #249 Gretchen G.Tiger

Basically, when faced with a no-win situation, one must think out of the box and be willing to take risks.

Can the GOP as it is now, do that?

Thinking isn't one of their strong points.

255 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:14:17pm

re: #251 JamesWI

I wonder how that whole "Lying for Jesus" thing goes when your lies end up being completely ineffectual. He might have just lost his celestial kingdom.../

Taqiyya!

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:15:06pm

going to try to accomplish something --maybe laundry.

Have a great evening all!

257 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:15:36pm

re: #249 Gretchen G.Tiger

Basically, when faced with a no-win situation, one must think out of the box and be willing to take risks.

Can the GOP as it is now, do that?

Well, the depends on whether you think Christian nationalism and voter fraud are "out of the box."

I'm not trying to pee in the collective cereal bowl, but what I'm hearing in the post-election analysis is not self-reflection that the GOP is broken, but yet another round of assumptions that the GOP can only lose because the system is broken...and that if things were functioning "correctly" their agenda would never be stymied or checked.

258 William of Orange  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:15:52pm

On a day like this!! Feel free to joint in with thousands of Celtic fans who just won 2-1 against FC Barcelona!!

When I'm with you baby
I go out of my head
I just can`t get enough
I just can`t get enough
All the things you do to me
And everything you said
I just can`t get enough
I just can`t get enough
We slip and slide as we fall in love
And I just can`t seem to get enough

Brilliant!!

259 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:19:04pm

It was a pleasure watching Dick Morris stick his own foot in his mouth for a change.

260 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:19:18pm

re: #217 Daniel Ballard

Good points but I don't think Mitt was the core problem. I would have entertained the possibility of voting for Mitt or Huntsman. Neither of them are radicals. However, the environment with the rest of the republican party is the big problem. The party forces moderate candidates into running on impossible platforms. There's always pandering to the base in the primaries but the wingnuts took it too far. Mitt was forced to essentially run on the platform of repealing the healthcare reform model he pioneered and a mathematically impossible fiscal/tax policy. No candidate can survive that.

261 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:20:34pm

re: #259 Amory Blaine

It was a pleasure watching Dick Morris stick his own foot in his mouth for a change.

ITS ALL CHRIS CHRISTIE'S FAULT DAMMIT!

262 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:22:25pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

Meanwhile, the Great Rushbo is telling the screaming masses the only reason they lost is because they weren't conservative enough.

263 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:23:07pm

Boehner Strikes Conciliatory Tone in Talk of Fiscal Cliff

Mr. Obama enters the next fray with heightened leverage, both sides agree, especially on what he sees as the most immediate issue: Whether Republicans will relent and extend the Bush-era income tax cuts, which expire Dec. 31, except for households with taxable income above $250,000 a year.

House Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio said Wednesday he is ready to accept a budget deal that raises federal revenues as long as it is linked to an overhaul of entitlements and a reform of the tax code that closes loopholes, curtails or eliminates deductions and lowers income tax rates.

Mr. Boehner’s gesture was the most explicit offer he has made to avert the so-called fiscal cliff in January, when billions of dollars in tax increases and automatic spending cuts go into force. And it came hours after Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader, offered his own olive branch, saying “it’s better to dance than to fight.”

Still wanna say "Fuck 'em" and drive over the cliff anyways?

264 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:23:07pm

I think the GOP needs to lose the rigid social conservatism. Lose the Jim Demints who insist you have to be a social conservative to be a fiscal conservative and you may get some new people in. Lose the hostile rhetoric to immigration and immigrants and you may get some inroads there. Problem is there are too many prominent voices saying that they lost because they weren't conservative enough. They need to take some lessons from the Democrats in the 80's and remake themselves.

265 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:23:34pm

re: #262 Kragar

Meanwhile, the Great Rushbo is telling the screaming masses the only reason they lost is because they weren't conservative enough.

Also, abortion-loving whores.

You're doing a disservice to the Rush brand if you omit the outright misogyny.

266 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:24:11pm

re: #264 HappyBenghazi

Their tax arguments are just as stupid as their social arguments.

267 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:24:42pm

Palin is quoting Corinthians and the faithful are lapping it up like kittens to milk. It is truly nuts.

268 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:25:27pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

Good points but I don't think Mitt was the core problem. I would have entertained the possibility of voting for Mitt or Huntsman. Neither of them are radicals. However, the environment with the rest of the republican party is the big problem. The party forces moderate candidates into running on impossible platforms. There's always pandering to the base in the primaries but the wingnuts took it too far. Mitt was forced to essentially run on the platform of repealing the healthcare reform model he pioneered and a mathematically impossible fiscal/tax policy. No candidate can survive that.

It was a closer-run thing than that. We won because some pissed-off diner tanked Romney's 47% speech and a storm surge came ashore at Sandy Hook instead of Hatteras. This whole thing could have gone south, and the threat from Citizen's United isn't gone.

269 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:25:33pm

re: #266 Amory Blaine

Their tax arguments are just as stupid as their social arguments.

You get no argument from me on that but you can't deny that they alienate a lot of affluent voters by engaging in cultural wars.

270 erik_t  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:25:51pm

re: #267 Petero1818

Palin is quoting Corinthians and the faithful are lapping it up like kittens to milk. It is truly nuts.

Is she reading it from her hand?

271 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:25:58pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Boehner Strikes Conciliatory Tone in Talk of Fiscal Cliff

Still wanna say "Fuck 'em" and drive over the cliff anyways?

Considering the fact that Boehner's idea of reconciliation is offering Romney's plan? Yeah, fuck that.

If people wanted Romney's plan, they would have elected him.

272 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:26:09pm

re: #264 HappyBenghazi

I think the GOP needs to lose the rigid social conservatism. Lose the Jim Demints who insist you have to be a social conservative to be a fiscal conservative and you may get some new people in. Lose the hostile rhetoric to immigration and immigrants and you may get some inroads there. Problem is there are too many prominent voices saying that they lost because they weren't conservative enough. They need to take some lessons from the Democrats in the 80's and remake themselves.

I think the first order of business should be severing the link between "fiscal conservatism" and "social conservatism". Defunding planned parenthood and PBS has no effect on the deficit.

273 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:26:49pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Boehner Strikes Conciliatory Tone in Talk of Fiscal Cliff

Still wanna say "Fuck 'em" and drive over the cliff anyways?

Before or after Cantor jumps up and says "Fuck that, we're not making any deals!"?

274 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:27:01pm

re: #270 erik_t

Is she reading it from her hand?

Nope. Truly important stuff like that she memorized long ago. It is rational thought and facts she needs to be spoon fed.

275 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:28:14pm

re: #264 HappyBenghazi

If you take a Republican, and strip away the anti-abortion rhetoric, the xenophobic immigration stance, the complete resistance to taxation reform, the knee jerk saber rattling, and the unwillingness to accept scientific realities, what are you left with?

Its not a Republican anymore, thats for sure.

276 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:29:22pm

re: #268 Decatur Deb

This whole thing could have gone south, and the threat from Citizen's United isn't gone.

I was thinking about citizen's united and "buying the election" earlier this morning. Do we know who spent more? I know it's only "buying the election" if Republicans win but this is one of those things I don't expect to change. If Dems are happy with their election fundraising under the current situation they aren't going to make much effort to change it.

277 Big Joe Ghazi  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:29:23pm
Obstructionism can also take the form of widespread agreement to oppose policies from the other side, regardless of any efforts at compromise. An example is the agreement by a group of Republican politicians at a meeting on January 20th, 2009 when Republican strategist Frank Luntz met with seven Republican representatives, Paul Ryan, Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy, Pete Sessions, Jeb Hensarling, Pete Hoekstra, and Dan Lungren and five Republican senators, Jim DeMint, Jon Kyl, Tom Coburn, John Ensign, and Bob Corker. Newt Gingrich was also in attendance. The agreement included among other things that they were to "Show united and unyielding opposition to the president's economic policies." Eight days later the Minority Whip, Eric Cantor held the House Republicans to a unanimous "No" vote against Obama's economic stimulus plan. At the end of the meeting Newt Gingrich said "You'll remember this day. You'll remember this as the day the seeds of 2012 were sown.
278 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:29:44pm

re: #275 Kragar

If you take a Republican, and strip away the anti-abortion rhetoric, the xenophobic immigration stance, the complete resistance to taxation reform, the knee jerk saber rattling, and the unwillingness to accept scientific realities, what are you left with?

Its not a Republican anymore, thats for sure.

You just made a Democrat!

279 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:30:25pm

Wingnut alert!

280 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:30:26pm

re: #273 Targetpractice

Before or after Cantor jumps up and says "Fuck that, we're not making any deals!"?

So Boehner sez:

House Speaker John A. Boehner of Ohio said Wednesday he is ready to accept a budget deal that raises federal revenues as long as it is linked to an overhaul of entitlements and a reform of the tax code that closes loopholes, curtails or eliminates deductions and lowers income tax rates.

That sounds a lot like the Romney "plan." I will believe that this is not hot air when I hear more specifics.

281 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:30:34pm

re: #275 Kragar

If you take a Republican, and strip away the anti-abortion rhetoric, the xenophobic immigration stance, the complete resistance to taxation reform, the knee jerk saber rattling, and the unwillingness to accept scientific realities, what are you left with?

Its not a Republican anymore, thats for sure.

Haha I know and that's why they're stuck long term. The groups they are doing best with: Old white dudes: are a shrinking group.

282 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:30:44pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Boehner Strikes Conciliatory Tone in Talk of Fiscal Cliff

Still wanna say "Fuck 'em" and drive over the cliff anyways?

Fuck 'em...at least until Boehner proves he's serious and not just pulling a Nancy with the football asking Charlie Brown to kick it.

283 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:30:55pm

re: #268 Decatur Deb

It's important that the democrats kick them, repeatedly, while they are down.

284 allegro  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:31:10pm

re: #272 Killgore Trout

I think the first order of business should be severing the link between "fiscal conservatism" and "social conservatism". Defunding planned parenthood and PBS has no effect on the deficit.

When did the GOP become fiscally conservative?

285 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:31:27pm

re: #276 Killgore Trout

I was thinking about citizen's united and "buying the election" earlier this morning. Do we know who spent more? I know it's only "buying the election" if Republicans win but this is one of those things I don't expect to change. If Dems are happy with their election fundraising under the current situation they aren't going to make much effort to change it.

As I have it the party and Pac totals were far to the TPGOP advantage. They didn't use it well, making weird ad buys and paying astroturfed volunteers to wreck their GOTV (Sproul).

286 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:31:37pm

re: #282 darthstar

Better said.

287 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:32:47pm
288 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:33:17pm

re: #283 Amory Blaine

It's important that the democrats kick them, repeatedly, while they are down.

Yup. Some prison time would be nice.

289 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:33:24pm

The democrats need to define conservatism.

290 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:33:45pm
291 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:34:03pm

re: #287 Gus

When was the last time a President was elected saying that he would cut military spending?

292 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:34:44pm

Herman Cain calls for 3rd party

Herman Cain, the former presidential candidate who still has a robust following via his popular talk radio program and speaking tours, today suggested the most clear step to open civil war: Secession. Appearing on Bryan Fischer’s radio program this afternoon, Cain called for a large faction of Republican Party leaders to desert the party and form a third, more conservative party.

“I never thought that I would say this, and this is the first time publicly that I’ve said it: We need a third party to save this country. Not Ron Paul and the Ron Paulites. No. We need a legitimate third party to challenge the current system that we have, because I don’t believe that the Republican Party…has the ability to rebrand itself,” Cain said.

Fischer, a social conservative leader, noted that he predicted this summer that if Mitt Romney loses, evangelical conservatives would start a third party. “If Barack Obama wins this election the Republican Party as we know it is finished, it is dead, it is toast,” Fischer said in September at the Values Voter Summit in Washington.

Rush Limabugh, two months ago, echoed the sentiment. ”If Obama wins, let me tell you what it’s the end of: The Republican Party. There’s gonna be a third party that’s gonna be oriented toward conservatism,” he said.

“It is more viable today than it has ever been,” Cain told Fischer today of a third party.

PLEASEOHPLEASEOHPLEASEOHPLEASE

293 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:34:57pm

re: #291 Euesperides invidius

When was the last time a President was elected saying that he would cut military spending?

That's about the Senate becoming more progressive.

294 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:34:59pm

re: #290 Gus

[Embedded content]

How long before Krazy Pam calls Olmert a kapo?

295 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:35:24pm

re: #294 HappyBenghazi

How long before Krazy Pam calls Olmert a kapo?

Let me go look...

//

296 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:35:59pm

re: #292 Kragar

Herman Cain calls for 3rd party

PLEASEOHPLEASEOHPLEASEOHPLEASE

I thought Cain's whole problem involved too many parties.

297 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:36:14pm

re: #295 Gus

Let me go look...

//

Nah, I don't want you getting a headache. Was thinking aloud kinda heh since I know she's going to blow her shit on Elie Wiesel since Mr. Wiesel and the president are writing a book together.

298 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:36:26pm

Heh, just noticed that Allen West lost.

299 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:36:34pm

re: #294 HappyBenghazi

How long before Krazy Pam calls Olmert a kapo?

Nothing about this but she's already called him a Kapo in the past.

300 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:36:48pm

re: #298 Varek Raith

Heh, just noticed that Allen West lost.

Yep. He's seeking a recount.

301 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:37:00pm

Thing about it is that the GOP kept the House, but they lost seats. And they most definitely lost any chance of taking the Senate. That does nothing for Boehner's already tenuous hold over his party leadership and just lowers McConnell's stock even further. I'd be hesitant to take any deal that they're willing to put forth.

302 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:37:12pm

re: #285 Decatur Deb

As I have it the party and Pac totals were far to the TPGOP advantage. They didn't use it well, making weird ad buys and paying astroturfed volunteers to wreck their GOTV (Sproul).

In the presidential race, Republicans spent way more. Not even close.

303 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:37:18pm

re: #300 Gus

Yep. He's seeking a recount.

Of course he is.

304 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:37:20pm

re: #299 Gus

Nothing about this but she's already called him a Kapo in the past.

She's fucking disgusting. Also saw today that she called the former PM of Ukraine, a Neo-Nazi.

305 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:37:35pm

re: #302 Talking Point Detective

In the presidential race, Republicans spent way more. Not even close.

Fiscal conservatism.

306 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:37:48pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Boehner Strikes Conciliatory Tone in Talk of Fiscal Cliff

Still wanna say "Fuck 'em" and drive over the cliff anyways?

Talk is cheap. Boehner's acted like a sane person in the past, too.

307 Mattand  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:38:01pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Boehner Strikes Conciliatory Tone in Talk of Fiscal Cliff

Still wanna say "Fuck 'em" and drive over the cliff anyways?

Given Republican obstructionism over the past 4 years, only an idiot would trust them. Shit, Boehner had almost no control over his own caucus.

Talk is cheap. They need to put their money where their mouths are.

308 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:38:57pm

re: #304 HappyBenghazi

She's fucking disgusting. Also saw today that she called the former PM of Ukraine, a Neo-Nazi.

Yep. Something about Hillary came along with that spew.

309 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:39:15pm
310 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:39:17pm

Epic slap fight going on between Dana Loesch and Rick Wilson

[Link: twitter.com...]

Basically, the fight is Rick Wilson calling out certain Republicans for coming to the defense of Akin and allowing him to stay in the race. And Loesch, as one of Akin's most fervent backers, isn't going to have any of that!

311 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:39:45pm

re: #276 Killgore Trout

I was thinking about citizen's united and "buying the election" earlier this morning. Do we know who spent more? I know it's only "buying the election" if Republicans win but this is one of those things I don't expect to change. If Dems are happy with their election fundraising under the current situation they aren't going to make much effort to change it.

Oops - responded to the wrong post.

In the presidential race, Republicans spent way more. Not even close.

312 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:39:56pm

re: #74 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

What do you lizards think the chances are that a non-trivial portion of Tea-Partiers and social conservatives defects from the "RINOs" in the GOP and tries to form their own party?

Unlikely. They have decided that they own the GOP and are going to throw out the RINOs and keep the name for themselves.

313 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:40:34pm

re: #309 Varek Raith


Boehner’s Offer For Bipartisan Compromise On Taxes Nearly Identical To Romney Plan

Fucking this.

His "compromise" was to say there's no way he's going to agree to raise the tax rates on anyone, but he's willing to get rid of unspecified "loopholes."

And of course, Killgore buys that load of bullshit.

314 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:40:35pm

re: #309 Varek Raith


Boehner’s Offer For Bipartisan Compromise On Taxes Nearly Identical To Romney Plan

That's a fucking joke. Note to Boehner, if the people wanted the Romney campaign, we'd be talking about president-elect Romney today. I don't expect him to go 180 but go 90 rather than 360.

315 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:42:19pm

Based on this garbage: Obama Admin Clinton, Sen. Durbin Blamed By Jewish Leaders For Legitimizing Ukraine’s Neo-Nazi Party

With this good comment:

This article is the worst kind of yellow journalism, timed to appear the day before the Presidential election in the hope of swaying Jewish voters.

In an OpEd article entitled “Ukraine’s Troubling Trends” published in the NY Times two weeks ago, jointly authored by Secretary Clinton and Catherine Ashton, the high representative of the European Union for foreign affairs and security policy ([Link: www.nytimes.com...] the authors stated:

“We regret that the convictions of opposition leaders during trials that did not meet international standards are preventing them from standing in parliamentary elections. The Ukrainian government needs to address these selective prosecutions, including the case of former Prime Minister Yulia V. Tymoshenko and other former senior officials.”

That was the only reference to Ms. Tymoshenko. How can one extrapolate from that language the assertion that the authors were “praising Tymoshenko and her party” is baffling. The entire point of the article (and other statements) was the need for the Ukraine to adhere to the rule of law and to a fair and apolitical judiciary, among other things, if the nation wants stronger ties to the EU and the West.

The blatant partisanship of the Courier in inexcusable when it purports to report the news. We expect better in our city.

317 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:42:41pm
318 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:43:03pm

McCain beats Romney...again.

319 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:43:44pm

re: #313 JamesWI

Fucking this.

His "compromise" was to say there's no way he's going to agree to raise the tax rates on anyone, but he's willing to get rid of unspecified "loopholes."

And of course, Killgore buys that load of bullshit.

I am an advocate for compromise on these issues - but falling for Boehner's bogus offer is hilarious.

Kilgore's gone completely over the edge. He's actually not buying into the rhetoric of someone who has been as extremist and non-compromising as Boehner.

320 Mattand  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:45:07pm
321 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:45:19pm
322 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:45:45pm

Some moon-faced goofball woman spokesman for the Teatards was on CNN at lunch, alleging that they lost because everybody voted for "personality" instead of policies.

Tricksy Negro magic! We'll get you next time... NEXXXXT TIME!!!

She kept on rambling, and the CNN muppet eventually cut her off... Clearly, sanity and common sense was not in her toolbox. I had no idea I was just voting for charm and a smile. And here I thought I voted against the GOP because they're a bunch of nuts with no plans!

323 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:46:16pm

re: #230 Talking Point Detective

Anyone posted on this yet?:

President Obama's call for unity in his acceptance speech in Chicago didn't quite make it down South.

A riot broke out at The University of Mississippi - known as Ole Miss - as more than 400 students yelled out racial slurs and burned Obama-Biden campaign posters after the Democratic incumbent was crowned the victor of the 2012 Presidential Election on Tuesday.

Emotions ran high among the angered college conservatives in Oxford, Mississippi.

Oh, Oxford, Miss. I hadn't gotten beyond the headlines. In that case, let me quote their favorite son:

The past is never dead. It's not even past.

That's such a good quotation, Faulkner's estate is suing Woody Allen* over it.

*actually, Sony Pictures...

324 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:46:20pm

re: #311 Talking Point Detective

Oops - responded to the wrong post.

In the presidential race, Republicans spent way more. Not even close.

I don't think that's true.
The 2012 Money Race: Compare the Candidates

Below is a tally of the money raised and spent through September by the presidential candidates, the national party committees and the primary “super PACs” whose sole purpose is to support a candidate.

Obama:

Raised
$934.0m
Spent
$852.9m


Mitt


Raised
$881.8m
Spent
$752.3m

325 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:47:44pm

re: #324 Killgore Trout

I don't think that's true.

Add in the Super PACs and get back to me.

326 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:47:57pm

re: #279 Gus

Wingnut alert!

[Embedded content]

CENSORSHIIIIIIP!!!1!

327 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:47:58pm

re: #321 HappyBenghazi

Where's the birth certificate?

(OMINOUS RUMBLING)

329 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:48:56pm
330 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:49:23pm

re: #325 makeitstopghazi

Add in the Super PACs and get back to me.

That was already included in the totals. The Moose out front should have told you

Below is a tally of the money raised and spent through September by the presidential candidates, the national party committees and the primary “super PACs” whose sole purpose is to support a candidate.

331 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:49:35pm

re: #57 calochortus

re: #55 Decatur Deb

Roy "10 Commandments" Moore was elected to Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court yesterday. There are no Democrats holding statewide elected office. The House and Senate are GOP-dominated.

We'll be having a meeting about that at the local BBQ.

Oh. Dear.

But good BBQ, especially if its Big Bob Gibson's.

332 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:50:24pm

re: #326 wrenchwench

OBAMA WHITE HOUSE IMPRISONS MAN FOR ANTI-MUSLIM FILM!!11TY

333 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:50:25pm

re: #324 Killgore Trout

I don't think that's true.
The 2012 Money Race: Compare the Candidates

Obama:

Raised
$934.0m
Spent
$852.9m

Mitt

Raised
$881.8m
Spent
$752.3m

Throw in the anti-Obama tirades during the Hundred-years Primary.

334 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:50:32pm

re: #325 makeitstopghazi

Add in the Super PACs and get back to me.

Just add Karl Rove's $400m XroadsGPS.

335 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:50:53pm

re: #324 Killgore Trout

I don't think that's true.
The 2012 Money Race: Compare the Candidates

Obama:

Raised
$934.0m
Spent
$852.9m

Mitt

Raised
$881.8m
Spent
$752.3m

You're talking about money raised by the candidates as opposed to outside spending - which wasn't close.

336 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:52:04pm
337 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:52:12pm

re: #333 Decatur Deb

Throw in the anti-Obama tirades during the Hundred-years Primary.

You could just as easily throw in the anti-Mitt tirades from the same primaries. The factually flawed "King of Bain" movie Newt financed ended up being an endless source for Obama ads.

338 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:52:33pm

re: #324 Killgore Trout

I don't think that's true.
The 2012 Money Race: Compare the Candidates

Obama:

Raised
$934.0m
Spent
$852.9m

Mitt

Raised
$881.8m
Spent
$752.3m

Total Outside Spending by Election Cycle, All Groups

Conservatives outspent Liberals almost $3 to $1

339 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:53:23pm

re: #338 Kragar

But think of all the jobs they created!

340 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:53:25pm

re: #334 darthstar

Just add Karl Rove's $400m XroadsGPS.

currently repeating in a mechanical voice "recalculating... recalculating..."

341 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:53:57pm

re: #331 BeenHereAwhile

But good BBQ, especially if its Big Bob Gibson's.

Wrong end of the state. We meet in odd places because we don't have enough for a month's HQ rent. Voted to blow 10% of our treasury on gas cards for GOTV trips.

342 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:54:00pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

Good points but I don't think Mitt was the core problem. I would have entertained the possibility of voting for Mitt or Huntsman. Neither of them are radicals. However, the environment with the rest of the republican party is the big problem. The party forces moderate candidates into running on impossible platforms. There's always pandering to the base in the primaries but the wingnuts took it too far. Mitt was forced to essentially run on the platform of repealing the healthcare reform model he pioneered and a mathematically impossible fiscal/tax policy. No candidate can survive that.

Agreed Mitt was not the core problem. Governor Mitt got morphed into TP conservative Mitt in the primary, he is not the core problem the Tea party is. The TP has got to go. Problem is it got them some seats. Well cut your losses and improve the party.

343 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:54:07pm
344 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:55:25pm

re: #335 Talking Point Detective

You're talking about money raised by the candidates as opposed to outside spending - which wasn't close.

There's a tab for outside spending but they don't bother giving us a total per side. looks like there might have been more outside spending from the R's but I'm not sure if it's enough to erase the D's campaign and superpac advantage.

345 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:55:50pm

re: #342 Daniel Ballard

Agreed Mitt was not the core problem. Governor Mitt got morphed into TP conservative Mitt in the primary, he is not the core problem the Tea party is. The TP has got to go. Problem is it got them some seats. Well cut your losses and improve the party.

if you subtract the teabaggers, the evangelicals, and wall st fatcats - who's left?

346 Four More Beers  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:56:26pm

How can Dick Morris show his face on TV ever again after what happened last night? I still can't get over just how fucking stupid that clown was with those "predictions" of a Romney landslide. But I guess in Fix News la-la land, it'll probably get him a raise.

347 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:56:45pm

re: #344 Killgore Trout

There's a tab for outside spending but they don't bother giving us a total per side. looks like there might have been more outside spending from the R's but I'm not sure if it's enough to erase the D's campaign and superpac advantage.

Dude. It wasn't close.

348 philosophus invidius  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:56:52pm

re: #345 engineer cat

if you subtract the teabaggers, the evangelicals, and wall st fatcats - who's left?

I guess 50.8% of the country.

349 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:57:07pm

Romney Camp Retooling Campaign After Latest Setback

“Obviously the defeat yesterday was tough, but we’re confident we can get right back on track and win this thing in the end,” said Romney campaign manager Matt Rhoades, adding that the GOP candidate “won’t be giving up just because of one bad day.” “The country simply can’t survive another four years of President Obama’s failed policies and broken promises. We just have to regroup, reconfigure a few things, and continue spreading our message to the American people that the man to lead this country forward is Mitt Romney.”

“We’re in this for the long haul,” Rhoades continued. “So we’re not going to let something minor, like not getting enough votes in the electoral college, set us back.”

According to sources, Romney plans to run fresh attack ads next week in several of the swing states he lost, including Ohio, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, and his campaign has already scheduled additional rallies and fundraising dinners across the country.

350 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:57:26pm

re: #338 Kragar

Total Outside Spending by Election Cycle, All Groups

Conservatives outspent Liberals almost $3 to $1

Looks like a $400 mil difference which would be enough to put the R's over the top in overall spending.

351 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:57:43pm

re: #345 engineer cat

if you subtract the teabaggers, the evangelicals, and wall st fatcats - who's left?

War hawks?

352 Four More Beers  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:57:54pm

re: #349 Kragar

Romney Camp Retooling Campaign After Latest Setback

Is this from The Onion?

353 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:58:15pm
354 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:58:17pm

re: #345 engineer cat

if you subtract the teabaggers, the evangelicals, and wall st fatcats - who's left?

Crony capitalist good ol' boy swindlers like known buttwhistle Rick Perry, who I sure as shit hope doesn't run and/or get re-elected again in 2014.

355 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:58:19pm

Hmm I kinda miss that box to click and see who is in the thread. I'll just try a shoutout to our host Charles

1. Nice job running the blog in heavy traffic last night, thank you. 2. For future Pages with photography, I have a question. I just hired a person to make me a wordpress photo blog. Studio11 at blogspot is going to be replaced. She said that png is better than jpeg for a crisper clearer look to photographs. I see you support the format-is PNG better than JPEG on this blog?

356 Four More Beers  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:58:19pm
357 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:58:50pm

The reason Obama won is simple...America's just not ready for another white president.

358 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:59:11pm

re: #344 Killgore Trout

There's a tab for outside spending but they don't bother giving us a total per side. looks like there might have been more outside spending from the R's but I'm not sure if it's enough to erase the D's campaign and superpac advantage.

There is no Dem superPAC advantage.

Adelson and the Koch brothers alone almost outspent the Dems.

359 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 2:59:25pm

Interesting that superpac money is dwarfed buy outside spending money. Not even close.

360 Four More Beers  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:00:05pm

re: #357 darthstar

The reason Obama won is simple...America's just not ready for another white president.

The reason Obama won is simple...America's just not ready for another Republican president.

361 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:00:12pm
362 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:00:26pm

re: #345 engineer cat

The actual moderates. More people than the critics think. Less than we need. But they are drowning in red meat TP planks. Look I'm not trying to say how they can prevail. I'm saying they can improve, and that is good for us all.

363 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:00:54pm

Speaking from simple observation. I saw a lot more ads from the Romney supporting SuperPACs than I did the Obama ones. It was about equal from the actual candidates.

364 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:01:03pm

Getting flashbacks of Buck claiming the Unions and outside Dem groups for Tom Barrett spent just as much as Walker and his buddies, in the recall election.....in the face of mounds of evidence to the contrary.

Killgore is now Buck.

365 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:01:32pm
366 Four More Beers  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:02:00pm

re: #362 Daniel Ballard


Hey, Daniel. My soccer jubi pic of the Houston Dynamo v KC made Getty Images top U.S. pics of the week. Just thought you would be interested from one photog to another.

367 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:02:06pm

re: #355 Daniel Ballard

Hmm I kinda miss that box to click and see who is in the thread. I'll just try a shoutout to our host Charles

1. Nice job running the blog in heavy traffic last night, thank you. 2. For future Pages with photography, I have a question. I just hired a person to make me a wordpress photo blog. Studio11 at blogspot is going to be replaced. She said that png is better than jpeg for a crisper clearer look to photographs. I see you support the format-is PNG better than JPEG on this blog?

PNG is lossless compression, which means it handles certain types of images (like gradients) very well. It also supports transparency, which JPEG does not. It's also patent-free, which is important to a lot of people.

368 allegro  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:02:24pm

re: #333 Decatur Deb

Throw in the anti-Obama tirades during the Hundred-years Primary.

How about the cost of Fox News?

369 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:03:47pm
370 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:04:06pm

It is interesting that the outside spending on campaigns was not as decisive as I thought they would be. I think that it will require some re-evaluation of the impact of outside spending.

371 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:04:52pm

re: #361 Gus

[Embedded content]

Both?

372 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:06:13pm

re: #371 Kragar

Both?

Don't know.

373 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:06:25pm

re: #366 Kid Aghazi

Heck yes, congratulations. Link? Glad Getty is working out for you. I have a lot on the stove-New wordpress photoblog site, pre ordering the 7D Mk II as soon as available, and kinda keeping an eye out for an older 6x9 or 6x12 camera.

374 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:06:52pm

re: #345 engineer cat

if you subtract the teabaggers, the evangelicals, and wall st fatcats - who's left?

Walmart Masochists for Romney

375 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:06:58pm

Taking bets on how much time Hannity spends on Benghazi tonight. I'm going with at least half of his hour-long show.

376 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:07:37pm

re: #368 allegro

How about the cost of Fox News?

Good point. Although I'm not a fan of citizen's united I'm not sure how much difference it makes. The partisan cable news networks function as their own superpacs with round the clock propaganda. There's nothing that can be done about that.

377 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:08:00pm

re: #375 JamesWI

Taking bets on how much time Hannity spends on Benghazi tonight. I'm going with at least half of his hour-long show.

45% and some additional time bitching about minority and women voters favoring Obama.

378 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:08:54pm

re: #370 Talking Point Detective

It is interesting that the outside spending on campaigns was not as decisive as I thought they would be. I think that it will require some re-evaluation of the impact of outside spending.

At some point overfunding could be self-defeating. If you're doing something stupid, it just lets you do more of it.

379 Four More Beers  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:09:28pm

re: #373 Daniel Ballard

Here you go. First row, fifth pic.
[Link: www.gettyimages.com...]

380 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:10:05pm
381 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:10:10pm

re: #370 Talking Point Detective

It is interesting that the outside spending on campaigns was not as decisive as I thought they would be. I think that it will require some re-evaluation of the impact of outside spending.

I think in a close race it can make a difference. Or Maybe if someone comes up with some really fantastic and effective ads. I'd love to see federally funded campaigns on a set budget but that's never going to happen. Despite the rhetoric, neither side is really interested in it. There's too much money and influence to be had.

382 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:10:40pm

re: #376 Killgore Trout

Good point. Although I'm not a fan of citizen's united I'm not sure how much difference it makes. The partisan cable news networks function as their own superpacs with round the clock propaganda. There's nothing that can be done about that.

It does kind of fly in the face of previous examples where electoral success was highly correlated with levels of spending. That would support your theory that once it gets beyond a certain point, the calculus changes.

383 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:11:46pm

re: #364 JamesWI

Killgore is now Buck.

Nah, it's more tragic than that - Buck was never sane. KT used to be.

384 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:11:50pm

re: #370 Talking Point Detective

It is interesting that the outside spending on campaigns was not as decisive as I thought they would be. I think that it will require some re-evaluation of the impact of outside spending.

I believe we may have seen a high-water mark in campaign spending this cycle. Conservatives spent mountains of money this time and have pretty much nothing to show for it. I don't think the Kochs or Shel Adelson will be going all-in on a presidential campaign next time. They'll probably opt for local and state races where they'll actually get some bang for their buck, if they choose to participate at all.

And Rove may be done altogether. He walked away with a tidy sum of money and produced no results in return. He better hope Fox News keeps him on the payroll.

385 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:13:11pm

Nugent: 'Soulless fools' reelected Obama

“Goodluk America u just voted for economic & spiritual suicide. Soulless fools,” Nugent wrote on Twitter on Wednesday.

In a string of tweets about the election, the rocker went off about “pimps whores & welfare brats & their soulless supporters” who now have “a president to destroy America.”

He also asked, “What subhuman varmint believes others must pay for their obesity booze cellphones birthcontrol abortions & lives”?

386 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:13:44pm
387 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:13:45pm

So, how many Wingnuts will decide to self deport, and to where?

388 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:13:56pm

re: #381 Killgore Trout

I think in a close race it can make a difference. Or Maybe if someone comes up with some really fantastic and effective ads. I'd love to see federally funded campaigns on a set budget but that's never going to happen. Despite the rhetoric, neither side is really interested in it. There's too much money and influence to be had.

Would help to mandate all primaries for Fed slots be held on the same day, 60 days out from the election.

389 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:14:06pm

re: #387 Kragar

So, how many Wingnuts will decide to self deport, and to where?

Somalia

390 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:15:12pm
391 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:15:35pm

re: #386 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Something telling about Romney as he left his campaign headquarters: His wife, Ann, sat shotgun. Mitt crammed into the backseat. Tagg drove.

Where was the dog, and the dancing horse?

392 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:16:18pm

I sincerely hope that Mitt Romney now grows a beard. Please?

393 Four More Beers  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:16:20pm

re: #387 Kragar

So, how many Wingnuts will decide to self deport, and to where?

Oh I've been following that bullshit since Obama won at 10:15 CST last night. It's been laughable. Not just the

I'M MOVING TO CANADA!!!

, but this chestnut from someone I used to date:

IF any of you have investments, make sure they are secured.....and if you have a home......make sure you either hold onto it, can afford to hold onto it and have a secure job.....or sell it immediately. The bottom is going to fall out.

394 Kragar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:16:54pm

Bryan Fischer's advice to GOP: Obstruct everything

395 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:17:14pm

re: #385 Kragar

Nugent: 'Soulless fools' reelected Obama

Bet those who get their knickers because Jay-Z rapped "I've got 99 problems a Mitt ain't one" will have no problem with Teddy calling his fellow Americans "subhuman varmint."

396 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:17:22pm

re: #386 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Wild thought - what if it was Ann making all the campaign decisions?

397 RadicalModerate  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:18:37pm

re: #377 HappyBenghazi

45% and some additional time bitching about minority and women voters favoring Obama.

I see two things happening as a result of this, one short-term, one of a more permanent nature.

First, there are going to be more and more concerted efforts by the Republican Party to redraw voting districts across racial lines, to minimize the influence of minority voting. I can see state legislatures starting to do this beginning in the next legislative session, census mappings be damned.
BTW, this also is the reason that the Republican platform in places like Texas advocate the repeal of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, because they want to get rid of the judicial oversight.

Second, and more importantly, we are going to be seeing ethnic minorities (specifically African-Americans and Hispanics) as extremely influential voting blocks during the foreseeable future, and because of this I can see a much, much higher participation rate. The last several national elections have proven that they have the power to make or break a candidate if they show up to vote - and you know that they now KNOW this fact.

398 Four More Beers  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:18:59pm
“Goodluk America u just voted for economic & spiritual suicide. Soulless fools,” Nugent wrote on Twitter on Wednesday.

In a string of tweets about the election, the rocker went off about “pimps whores & welfare brats & their soulless supporters” who now have “a president to destroy America.”

He also asked, “What subhuman varmint believes others must pay for their obesity booze cellphones birthcontrol abortions & lives”?

Sounds like the rocker is off his rocker.

399 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:19:00pm

How dare Obama use Air Force 1 to fly back to DC!!

//Wingnut

400 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:19:57pm

re: #396 makeitstopghazi

Wild thought - what if it was Ann making all the campaign decisions?

This isn't a direct quote, but I suspect her conversation with him last night went something like this, "It's over, Mitt! I've been putting up with this running for president shit since you were governor! Now pick up the phone, call President Obama, and congratulate him like a man! Tagg, get me a fucking cigarette!"

401 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:21:57pm

re: #379 Kid Aghazi

Here you go. First row, fifth pic.
[Link: www.gettyimages.com...]

Well done. Looks like you got the best instant.

402 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:22:32pm

re: #387 Kragar

So, how many Wingnuts will decide to self deport, and to where?

Rush, to Costa Rica.

(If only)

403 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:23:45pm

re: #402 Vicious Babushka

Rush, to Costa Rica.

(If only)

How did your troll-bridge amendment do?

404 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:24:25pm

I do have to say that I am shocked by the relative lack of "Obama stole the election!!! Voter Fraud!!! ACORN!!!" from the wingnuts today. Given the way they reject any science and math they don't like, I thought it would be rampant.

I'd say that this might show there's still some hope left for them.....but really, the more likely explanation is that (so far) no one has gone on Fox and told them to think it.

Fingers crossed for Hannity!

405 lgffan  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:24:50pm

The GOP will not regain my vote until they embrace science, disavow the collection of rape apologists, anti-choice brethren, stop attempting to legislate morality and develop some other approach to balancing the budget besides lowering taxes and increasing spending. Get the hell out of everyone's bedroom, stop denying global warming and become a little flexible.
....... I am not holding my breath.

406 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:25:20pm

AF1 has stopped. Engine shut down.

407 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:25:22pm

re: #404 JamesWI

I do have to say that I am shocked by the relative lack of "Obama stole the election!!! Voter Fraud!!! ACORN!!!" from the wingnuts today. Given the way they reject any science and math they don't like, I thought it would be rampant.

I'd say that this might show there's still some hope left for them.....but really, the more likely explanation is that (so far) no one has gone on Fox and told them to think it.

Fingers crossed for Hannity!

Try Freep for all your vote-fraud needs.

408 RadicalModerate  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:26:10pm

re: #407 Decatur Deb

Try Freep for all your vote-fraud needs.

Or WND, or Alex Jones, or Brietbart, or...

409 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:26:43pm

re: #406 Gus

AF1 has stopped. Engine shut down.

Disarm doors, cross-check.

410 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:28:05pm

re: #404 JamesWI

I do have to say that I am shocked by the relative lack of "Obama stole the election!!! Voter Fraud!!! ACORN!!!" from the wingnuts today. Given the way they reject any science and math they don't like, I thought it would be rampant.

I'd say that this might show there's still some hope left for them.....but really, the more likely explanation is that (so far) no one has gone on Fox and told them to think it.

Fingers crossed for Hannity!

Rush had a math problem today. He asked, "Why don't our minorities count?" and talked about all the brown and black people they had speaking at the Republican convention, and denied they were tokens because they're 'real people'.

Rush: it's not that your minorities don't count, it's that they don't add up. Big difference.

411 Four More Beers  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:28:49pm

re: #405 lgffan

The GOP will not regain my vote until they embrace science, disavow the collection of rape apologists, anti-choice brethren, stop attempting to legislate morality and develop some other approach to balancing the budget besides lowering taxes and increasing spending. Get the hell out of everyone's bedroom, stop denying global warming and become a little flexible.
....... I am not holding my breath.

Good, because you would develop brain damage.

412 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:29:01pm

re: #409 darthstar

Disarm doors, cross-check.

Of course, we missed the part where the captain said, "The seatbelt sign has been turned off. Please feel free to dance Gangnam style at your leisure."

413 Gus  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:29:46pm

The first family has just deplaned AF1.

414 JamesWI  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:30:20pm

From a story on Romney's plans post-election:

The most visible member of that family — wife Ann Romney — says neither she nor her husband will seek political office again.

"Absolutely he will not run again," she told the hosts of ABC's "The View" in October when asked if a loss would mean the end of Romney's political career. "Nor will I."

PHEW!.....We won't have to worry about the powerhouse Ann Romney Presidential campaign!

415 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:30:22pm

re: #410 wrenchwench

Rush had a math problem today. He asked, "Why don't our minorities count?" and talked about all the brown and black people they had speaking at the Republican convention, and denied they were tokens because they're 'real people'.

Rush: it's not that your minorities don't count, it's that they don't add up. Big difference.

He's a pathetically stupid man. Always has been and always will. Maybe if he left his job as a propagandist to go back and get his degree, he may understand some things better but nah better to just make a living being the pot that calls the kettle black.

416 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:31:34pm

I thought it was a nice personal touch when Obama brought up Romney's parents last night. Kind of made me think a little of my Dad's parents who were from the same generation though they were liberal democrats while George and Lenore Romney were moderate republicans.

417 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:33:09pm
418 darthstar  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:33:51pm

re: #413 Gus

The first family has just deplaned AF1.

Please proceed to baggage claim A...oh, who the hell am I kidding. Hop in the limo, we'll get your shit home for you.

419 Lidane  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:50:11pm

re: #385 Kragar

Nugent: 'Soulless fools' reelected Obama

Who uses the word "varmint" without irony? Even the most redneck, country music loving, truck driving, living embodiment of every Southern/Texan cliches that I know don't use that word unless they're imitating Yosemite Sam as a joke. WTF.

420 aagcobb  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 3:59:47pm

re: #387 Kragar

So, how many Wingnuts will decide to self deport, and to where?

I think billionaire libertarians are planning to build themselves an island nation. Wingnuts could go to serve the billionaires as their slaves.

421 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 4:07:05pm

re: #403 Decatur Deb

How did your troll-bridge amendment do?

All the Michigan proposals were voted down.

422 boxhead  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 10:11:22pm

Charles is a nerd... and I say that with the utmost respect since I too am a nerd and did not need the explanation of the Kobayashi Maru. lol.. fun times

423 Not Approved By The MPAA  Wed, Nov 7, 2012 11:37:45pm

re: #38 lawhawk

Actually,
Kirk was the ONLY candidate to beat the test ...


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LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.

Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
Randall Gross
Special Ops Team Frees Al Qaeda Hostages From Yemeni Cave in Daring Nighttime Raid
A team of U.S. special operations forces conducted a joint raid in a remote region of Yemen to rescue eight hostages being held in a cave by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. Elements of the Navy's elite SEAL ...

3 hours, 21 minutes ago
Views: 96 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 0
William Barnett-Lewis
A Prayer of Giving Thanks
by Mark Sandlin Good and gracious God, There is a tension that comeswith giving thanks. Even as we recognizeand are grateful forthe blessings in our lives,we are confronted withenjoying our abundanceas we recognize the realitythat there are thosewho have far ...

7 hours, 29 minutes ago
Views: 80 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 1
The Vicious Fergushka
The Scientific Explanation of Why People Kill Each Other Over TVs on Black Friday
More: The Scientific Explanation of Why People Kill Each Other Over TVs on Black Friday What causes people to kick, shove and even stab each other on Black Friday? Each year there are reports of violence during the Black Friday ...

2 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 354 • Comments: 3
Tweets: 6 • Rating: 1
Skip Intro
Anti-Gay Hate Preacher Accidentally Tweets 4,000 Followers Cartoon Clip of Him ‘Confessing’ to Be a ‘Homosexual Sodomite’
Adam Reakes Promotes Truth That Starbucks Markets Semen Laced Lattes http://t.co/RY06dEEb0I— James David Manning (@DrJamesDManning) November 20, 2014

2 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 558 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Lumberhead
One Man Should Not Dictate Immigration Policy
Well played. You know, the more I mull over the Republican complaint about how immigration reform is being implemented, the more I sympathize with them. Public policy, especially on big, hot button issues like immigration shouldn't be made by one ...

3 days, 7 hours ago
Views: 391 • Comments: 6
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 7
teleskiguy
“Chelsea Hotel” performed by Tal Wilkenfeld
I first saw Austrailian bass player Tal Wilkenfeld play with Jeff Beck (not live, mind you. On YouTube) and was amazed at her skills and chops. She was only 20 when she scored that gig. She's coming into her own ...

5 days, 4 hours ago
Views: 262 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 4
FemNaziBitch
History of Laws Concerning Immigration and Naturalization in the United States -WIKI
The United States Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787. Article I, section 8, clause 4 of the Constitution expressly gives the United States Congress the power to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.[1] Pursuant to this power, Congress ...

5 days, 12 hours ago
Views: 375 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 3
MichaelJ
COMFORTABLY NUMB - Peahi Nov 12 on Vimeo
Channel angle of the Nov 12th swell at Peahi.

1 week, 2 days ago
Views: 530 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 2
Romantic Heretic
Money Makes Us Less Rational
Here's an interesting article on scientific studies that demonstrate how rationality and empathy break down is the presence of large amounts of money.

1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 734 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
 Frank says:

He was in a quandary...being devoured by the swirling cesspool of his own steaming desires...