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Paul Ryan: I Didn’t Lose on the Issues, I Lost Because of Black People

They’ll just have to work harder to suppress the vote next time
Politics • Views: 24,652

Paul Ryan is showing just how deep Republican introspection will go after their huge loss; he now says he didn’t lose because of the issues, but because too many black people got to vote.

In his first interview since losing the election, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) wouldn’t admit that voters rejected his economic vision and instead chalked up President Obama’s victory to a large turnout of the “urban vote.” “I don’t think we lost it on those budget issues, especially on Medicare, we clearly didn’t lose it on those issues,” Ryan to local station WISC-TV. “I think the surprise was some of the turnout, some of the turnout especially in urban areas, which gave President Obama the big margin to win this race.”

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251 comments

1 erik_t  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:45:45am

Go away, Zombie-Eyed Granny-Starving Dog Whistler.

(this name is getting awful long, are we yet due for abbreviation?)

2 chonguey  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:46:14am

That's why Iowa went to Obama: because of the huge Urban areas.

3 sagehen  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:46:43am

to quote S E Cupp on Maher's show the other day, the problem with Republican men is:

"They don't seem to understand that microphones convey sound. That when you speak into one, people can hear you."

4 Tigger2  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:46:45am

IT'S THE POLICIES STUPID.

5 lewispryor  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:46:49am

Well, nobody can say that his Party did not make a valiant effort to stop them from voting!

6 OhNoZombies!  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:48:04am

Because everybody knows that the 'Urbans" don't vote on matters of policy.
//
Dick.

7 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:48:14am

ACORN!

8 sauceruney  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:48:17am

Dear Paul Ryan,

You suck. Because racism.

Love,
Me

9 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:48:49am

"Urban vote" ≠ "black people".

10 Mattand  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:48:50am

re: #3 sagehen

to quote S E Cupp on Maher's show the other day, the problem with Republican men is:

"They don't seem to understand that microphones convey sound. That when you speak into one, people can hear you."

I'll remember that when alleged atheist SE Cupp starts shitting all over atheists for being all athiesty.

11 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:49:59am

Yeah, they learned nothing. What an ass hole.

12 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:50:02am

It couldn't possibly be because Ryan is a complete and utter douchenozzle.

13 darthstar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:50:18am

So Paul Ryan's a bigot...we knew that before the election.

We also have word from his running mate.

Image: 552352_10151328844296081_365065789_n.jpg

14 erik_t  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:50:24am

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

"Urban vote" ≠ "black people".

Zero benefit of the doubt at this point. Zero. Actually, negative.

15 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:50:49am

Those shiftless Negroes don't know what's good for them, and have lost respect for their betters! We need to fix that by next election...

Shorter Paul Ryan.

16 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:51:08am

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

"Urban vote" ≠ "black people".

Nope, there's also gays, lesbians, Hispanics, single women....

17 Lidane  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:51:14am

re: #1 erik_t

Go away, Zombie-Eyed Granny-Starving Dog Whistler.

(this name is getting awful long, are we yet due for abbreviation?)

Calling him an asshole works just as well.

18 darthstar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:51:30am

re: #11 makeitstop

Yeah, they learned nothing. What an ass hole.

And an asshole who is going to make the Republicans look even more like idiots as he tries (and fails) to use his Ayn Rand budget as a starting point in negotiating with the President.

19 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:51:55am

re: #10 Mattand

I'll remember that when alleged atheist SE Cupp starts shitting all over atheists for being all athiesty.

She should have stuck with ballet. Political science is not her strong point.

20 blueraven  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:52:01am

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

"Urban vote" ≠ "black people".

Why didn't he just say "Obama beat us on GOTV"...period?

21 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:52:08am

re: #17 Lidane

Calling him an asshole works just as well.

"Ass Hole" is levels of magnitude more assholey than mere "asshole"

22 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:52:09am

Simply stonewalling and obstructing did not work. They need another approach. They remained convinced that America is headed towards disaster and only they have the policies and the idological standards to save us.

So I can assume that their policy will be to precipitate a crisis wherever and whenever possible until enough people see the light.

23 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:52:54am

Wow. Ryan is actually admitting that they lost because of turnout, and yet somehow doesn't think that turnout reflects support of issues. There's a clear implication that the 'urban' voters don't vote for ideas. Otherwise, Ryan's statement makes no sense.

24 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:53:36am

Ryan's response reminds me.......when I ran for local election and won, the next day I ran into the wife of my opponent in the grocery store. She marched up to me, pointed her finger into my chest, and told me that, "the only reason I won was that more of my supporters came out to vote than theirs." My jaw dropped and I responded, "isn't that how it is supposed to work." My brother has been kidding me ever since telling me how I cheated by getting more people to vote for me.

25 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:53:57am

With how politically stupid these guys are, I almost jokingly expect them to come out in 2016 wearing black-face in hopes of getting some of that "urban vote."

26 lewispryor  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:54:05am

re: #6 OhNoZombies!

I believe "The Urbans" prefer to be known as Keith and Nicole.

27 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:54:12am

re: #20 blueraven

Why didn't he just say "Obama beat us on GOTV"...period?

Because anyone who looks at the electoral maps knows that the urban areas (AKA densely populated cities) lean heavily D. That's a fact and there's nothing wrong with mentioning that. It's a problem for Republicans.

28 uncah91  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:54:12am

Dark,

If you take Ryan at his word, it's not better. Because then you have to believe he thinks that the opinions (on policy) of those who live in cities don't count.

29 darthstar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:54:16am

Paul Ryan's opinions about the election are like Florida. They don't count.

30 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:54:27am

re: #22 Sol Berdinowitz

Simply stonewalling and obstructing did not work. They need another approach. They remained convinced that America is headed towards disaster and only they have the policies and the idological standards to save us.

So I can assume that their policy will be to precipitate a crisis wherever and whenever possible until enough people see the light.

I am still convinced that the teabaggers will force a vote on impeachment. Probably something out of the fever swamps surrounding Benghazi.

31 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:54:45am

The wingnuts are crying that they lost because of "Voter Fraud" because how else can you explain that Romney got 0 votes in neighborhoods inhabited exclusively by the 47%?

32 Lidane  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:55:18am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Because anyone who looks at the electoral maps knows that the urban areas (AKA densely populated cities) lean heavily D. That's a fact and there's nothing wrong with mentioning that. It's a problem for Republicans.

If you think he's talking about the "urban vote" and is referring to densely populated cities, I have oceanfront land in Nebraska to sell you.

33 uncah91  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:55:20am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Because anyone who looks at the electoral maps knows that the urban areas (AKA densely populated cities) lean heavily D. That's a fact and there's nothing wrong with mentioning that. It's a problem for Republicans.

But how is that not a loss on the issues? They lean D because the agree with Ds on the issues.

34 blueraven  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:55:48am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Because anyone who looks at the electoral maps knows that the urban areas (AKA densely populated cities) lean heavily D. That's a fact and there's nothing wrong with mentioning that. It's a problem for Republicans.

Obama got their voters out and Romney didn't. End of story.

35 sagehen  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:56:05am

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

"Urban vote" ≠ "black people".

Why not? Urban radio means black music for a black audience.

36 Tigger2  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:56:05am

re: #22 Sol Berdinowitz

Simply stonewalling and obstructing did not work. They need another approach. They remained convinced that America is headed towards disaster and only they have the policies and the idological standards to save us.

So I can assume that their policy will be to precipitate a crisis wherever and whenever possible until enough people see the light.

You mean their policies that caused the disaster will now mysteriously fix them, Oh the mind of a wingnut is is a dark and funny place.

37 Lidane  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:56:33am

re: #33 uncah91

But how is that not a loss on the issues? The lean D because the agree with Ds on the issues.

Because "urban voters" don't vote on issues or ideas! They vote for the black guy because of reasons!

38 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:56:43am

re: #32 Lidane

If you think he's talking about the "urban vote" and is referring to densely populated cities, I have oceanfront land in Nebraska to sell you.

If climate change doesn't slow down, it might be in a few lifetimes :-)

39 EPR-radar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:56:48am

re: #23 Obdicut

Wow. Ryan is actually admitting that they lost because of turnout, and yet somehow doesn't think that turnout reflects support of issues. There's a clear implication that the 'urban' voters don't vote for ideas. Otherwise, Ryan's statement makes no sense.

IMAX level projection strikes again. The GOP base could care less about the issues, their starting point is tribal opposition to Democrats.

The opposition to the GOP starts with issues, and may become tribal in those who are sufficiently opposed.

There is a difference here.

40 jamesfirecat  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:57:20am

re: #35 sagehen

Why not? Urban radio means black music for a black audience.

The Urban Market stole my TV once....


---Harry S. Plinkett.

41 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:57:42am

re: #34 blueraven

Obama got their voters out and Romney didn't. End of story.

But Peggy "Magic Dolphins" Noonan said that Romney had teh excitment and moar yard signs dontchaknow!

42 sagehen  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:57:58am

re: #20 blueraven

Why didn't he just say "Obama beat us on GOTV"...period?

So a community organizer is good at organizing communities? Who'dathunk?

43 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:58:45am

re: #35 sagehen

Why not? Urban radio means black music for a black audience.

But that's not the whole story of cites and their politics, something a politician from Wisconsin would understand fairly well.

44 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:58:56am

re: #36 Tigger2

You mean their policies that caused the disaster will now mysteriously fix them, Oh the mind of a wingnut is is a dark and funny place.

Conservatism can never fail. It can only be failed by those of little faith and apostates.

/

45 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:59:02am

re: #23 Obdicut

Wow. Ryan is actually admitting that they lost because of turnout, and yet somehow doesn't think that turnout reflects support of issues. There's a clear implication that the 'urban' voters don't vote for ideas. Otherwise, Ryan's statement makes no sense.

"Fellow Republicans, in the wake of this historic election, do we look inward and see what we need to change to make ourselves a viable party in a changing America and world, or do we simply blame our opponents and seek to marginalize their voices at every turn thru gerrymandering and voter suppression?"

"THE PRESIDENT'S A NI-CLANG!"

"Good. Glad to see thats settled."

46 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:59:19am

re: #31 Vicious Babushka

The wingnuts are crying that they lost because of "Voter Fraud" because how else can you explain that Romney got 0 votes in neighborhoods inhabited exclusively by the 47%?

I wonder if there are some precincts in "flyover country" that had no votes going to Obama? There's several counties in that area of the US that would fit the demographic. Of course, even if that's the case, you won't hear a single word from the right (or pretty much anyone else) claiming "voter fraud".

47 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:00:21am

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

"Urban vote" ≠ "black people".

Yes, it certainly does.

48 S'latch  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:00:26am

In other words, he wasn't trying to get the vote of people who disagree with him. He was only trying to get the vote of people who agree with him, but there just weren't enough of them. However, he did get their vote, so, he didn't loose. It is just that too many people who disagree with him voted against him.

He has not mastered the concept to democracy.

49 Killgore Trout  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:00:51am

re: #33 uncah91

But how is that not a loss on the issues? The lean D because the agree with Ds on the issues.

It is related to issues. Republicans appeal better in rural areas where topics like regulation, "less government", minimal infrastructure spending are more popular issues. In cities (AKA urban areas) government spending on social services, infrastructure, regulation, urban planing are necessities. Also if you look at the electoral maps in many cities that D influence is pushing out into the suburbs where communities rely on the city and R policies have less appeal. There's nothing racist about this. It's a simple fact.

50 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:01:28am

"Urban vote" has been a Republican dog whistle for decades.

Please.

51 S'latch  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:02:44am

Urban vote does not necessarily mean black people. But, in practical terms, it amounts to it.

52 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:03:21am

One other thing about those "urban" voting districts.

What party was it who gerrymandered all of the minority voters into a single large block, while carefully splitting the others to guarantee a majority of voters in their own party?

This wasn't voter fraud.

It was an expected result.

53 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:03:53am

This is why people like Ryan use these code words - because there are plenty of people who will let them get away with it.

54 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:04:13am

re: #6 OhNoZombies!

Because everybody knows that the 'Urbans" don't vote on matters of policy.
//
Dick.

Why white "urban" vote did not go to you Paul. Explain that one.

55 Four More Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:04:23am

o.O

11.13.2012 — 12:15 PM
BREAKING

Rogue federal agency upends leadership at CIA and Army.

Josh Marshall

56 blueraven  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:04:25am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

It is related to issues. Republicans appeal better in rural areas where topics like regulation, "less government", minimal infrastructure spending are more popular issues. In cities (AKA urban areas) government spending on social services, infrastructure, regulation, urban planing are necessities. Also if you look at the electoral maps in many cities that D influence is pushing out into the suburbs where communities rely on the city and R policies have less appeal. There's nothing racist about this. It's a simple fact.

Then Ryan should have said...we didn't get our voters out in the areas we needed to. Our [white] rural voters weren't as excited about our policies as we thought.

57 JRCMYP  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:04:27am

Keep saying that shit, Ryan. Go ahead! Keep it up. Because until the GOP gets it through their bigoted, mean-spirited heads that you can't treat women and people of color like some voter turnout anomaly, you will continue to have your asses handed to you. Forever.

58 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:05:16am

re: #50 Charles Johnson

"Urban vote" has been a Republican dog whistle for decades.

Please.

Especially in the context he used. He said "we didn't lose because of our policies," we lost because of "high turnout in urban areas." Translation: it had nothing to do with our policies, they voted for him because he's black.

59 uncah91  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:05:29am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

It is related to issues. Republicans appeal better in rural areas where topics like regulation, "less government", minimal infrastructure spending are more popular issues. In cities (AKA urban areas) government spending on social services, infrastructure, regulation, urban planing are necessities. Also if you look at the electoral maps in many cities that D influence is pushing out into the suburbs where communities rely on the city and R policies have less appeal. There's nothing racist about this. It's a simple fact.

So the opinions of people who live in cities somehow don't count? What the hell can Ryan possibly be saying that makes any sense?

If he isn't referring to the black vote, then this is a "Real America" argument. Rural voters are real america and city voters are "the others, who don't count"

60 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:05:44am

Is there nothing lamer in US politics than a losing vice-presidential candidate? I am testing my memory but has anyone lost a VP election and been able to be successfully on the national stage afterward?

61 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:05:49am

I guess all of a sudden we're supposed to forget about the long, long history of Republicans using "urban vote" to refer to minorities.

62 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:06:44am

re: #59 uncah91

So the opinions of people who live in cities somehow don't count? What the hell can Ryan possibly be saying that makes any sense?

I he isn't referring to the black vote, then this is a "Real America" argument. Rural voters are real america and city voters are "the others, who don't count"

Bingo!

63 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:07:11am

Jindal to Republicans: ‘Stop being the stupid party’

The Republican governor of Louisiana, who signed a bill which allowed intelligent design to be taught alongside evolution, is now calling on Republicans to “stop being the stupid party,” but because of the a party’s anti-science policies.

“We’ve got to make sure that we are not the party of big business, big banks, big Wall Street bailouts, big corporate loopholes, big anything,” Gov. Bobby Jindal told Politico in an interview published on Tuesday. “We cannot be, we must not be, the party that simply protects the rich so they get to keep their toys.”

Jindal also said that Republicans needed to “reject identity politics” and fight for the vote of every single American.

64 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:07:19am

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

But that's not the whole story of cites and their politics, something a politician from Wisconsin would understand fairly well.

I don't think 'urban' is directly code for 'black' here, but there's two big problems with it.

1. His statement indicates he doesn't believe that voters in the city vote for ideals, otherwise he'd admit they did lose on medicare, they did lose on the ideas.

2. Urban voters are 80% of the electorate. [Link: www.census.gov...] I have no idea what definition Paul Ryan was using for 'urban' here, but to make any sense it's got to be a more narrowly selected one . And the more 'urban' you get, the more non-white the population becomes.

The problem with having a party with racist policies that embraces racist political tactics is that eventually your issues and your supporters coincide so strongly with your privileged race, and your opposition is so obviously not that, that racism seeps in nearly everywhere. If someone says that Democrats are lazy, they are saying the vast majority of black people are lazy, since black people are overwhelmingly Democrats. They didn't call black people lazy directly, but it's a direct inference.

65 sagehen  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:08:17am

re: #60 Big Steve

Is there nothing lamer in US politics than a losing vice-presidential candidate? I am testing my memory but has anyone lost a VP election and been able to be successfully on the national stage afterward?

Depends how you define "successfully". Sarah Palin's made a lot of money...

ohhhh!!!! got one!!!!

Ford/Dole '76. Bob Dole continued in the senate for eons, and did achieve his party's nomination for president 20 years later.

66 Lidane  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:08:21am

re: #63 Kragar

Jindal to Republicans: ‘Stop being the stupid party’

Says the man who believes in exorcisms and who sneered about volcano monitoring.

67 Tigger2  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:08:47am

re: #63 Kragar

Jindal to Republicans: ‘Stop being the stupid party’

Stupid is as Stupid does. dontcha know wink wink.

68 abolitionist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:09:33am

So Ryan is blaming the outcome on the electorate. Got it.

69 uncah91  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:09:44am

re: #66 Lidane

Says the man who believes in exorcisms and who sneered about volcano monitoring.

When you've lost Jindal, who HAVE you got?

70 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:09:45am

re: #65 sagehen

Depends how you define "successfully". Sarah Palin's made a lot of money...

ohhhh!!!! got one!!!!

Ford/Dole '76. Bob Dole continued in the senate for eons, and did achieve his party's nomination for president 20 years later.

You are correct......Forgot Dole was Ford's VP.

71 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:09:58am

ABC station botches Petraeus book cover: ‘ALL Up IN My Snatch’

An ABC News affiliate in Denver says that while attempting to report on the resignation of former CIA Director David Petraeus, the station mistakenly aired a photoshopped version of his mistress’ book with the raunchy title “All Up In My Snatch.”

72 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:10:01am

re: #61 Charles Johnson

I guess all of a sudden we're supposed to forget about the long, long history of Republicans using "urban vote" to refer to minorities.

Welfare queens in Cadillacs and strapping young black bucks buying t-bone steaks...

73 Lidane  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:10:19am

re: #68 abolitionist

So Ryan is blaming the outcome on the electorate. Got it.

"If only those Obama voters hadn't gone to the polls! We would have won!"

///

74 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:10:26am

re: #60 Big Steve

Is there nothing lamer in US politics than a losing vice-presidential candidate? I am testing my memory but has anyone lost a VP election and been able to be successfully on the national stage afterward?

I don't remember them being as nationally prominent as they've been in the past 2 years. Palin still hasn't gone the fuck away. And Ryan and his budget bullshittery are still in the House. I'm sure Faux News will try to keep them in the national spotlight. Though I don't remember Edwards going on NBC every week after 2004. Don't remember VPs much before then.

75 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:10:28am

re: #69 uncah91

When you've lost Jindal, who HAVE you got?

Limbaugh?

76 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:10:31am

Dear Wingnuts,

President Obama will be the president for the next 1529 days or 4 years, 2 months, 7 days or re: #68 abolitionist

So Ryan is blaming the outcome on the electorate. Got it.

Rather strange isn't it?

"It's, it's, it's the American people's fault!"

Wut?

77 andres  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:10:42am

Ingenious. This might be to pave the way to an "our way or the highway" negotiation. He's basically saying, "We are right in the issues, but we just lost a popularity contest."

78 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:10:42am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

It is related to issues. Republicans appeal better in rural areas where topics like regulation, "less government", minimal infrastructure spending are more popular issues. In cities (AKA urban areas) government spending on social services, infrastructure, regulation, urban planing are necessities.

Actually, cities largely subsidize rural areas in many things, like hospitals, and a higher percentage of rural people are on some form of government assistance. So you got that bit backwards.

Also if you look at the electoral maps in many cities that D influence is pushing out into the suburbs where communities rely on the city and R policies have less appeal. There's nothing racist about this. It's a simple fact.

It's also a fact that the urban base of voters is far more non-white than the rural population of voters. The GOP has very consciously appealed to the nativist white vote-- who are also largely rural.

I don't see what good it does to pretend that the only reason politics are different in (some) rural areas vs (some) urban areas is because of actual policy differences. It's a breathtakingly naive point of view.

79 sagehen  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:10:58am

re: #70 Big Steve

You are correct......Forgot Dole was Ford's VP.

no, he was the '76 running mate, but when Ford was actually President and had an actual VP it was Nelson Rockefeller.

80 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:11:04am

Oops. Left a comment I was assembling there.

81 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:11:20am

re: #63 Kragar

Jindal to Republicans: ‘Stop being the stupid party’

That's rich, coming from a guy who advocated killing off federal funding to monitor dangerous volcanos...

82 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:11:24am

4 years, 2 months, 7 days

83 nines09  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:11:31am

Clueless. Had bows and ribbons and star spangled bunting along with patriotic songs all wrapped around a bag of shit and they still don't get it. It was a bag of shit. Stay dumb and plow into the ground at terminal velocity. You will not be missed.

84 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:12:08am

re: #82 Gus

4 years, 2 months, 7 days

1000 YEARS OF DARKNESS!!!

85 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:12:18am

re: #81 celticdragon

That's rich, coming from a guy who advocated killing off federal funding to monitor dangerous volcanos...

The guy who just presided over the fire sale of educational standards in Louisiana, sending taxpayer money to religious schools that teach creationism.

86 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:13:51am

re: #33 uncah91

But how is that not a loss on the issues? They lean D because the agree with Ds on the issues.

Because they believe that "urbans" only vote for free stuff.

87 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:15:09am

Wingnuts DERPing over possible Kerry cabinet post

88 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:15:19am
89 GunstarGreen  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:16:27am

The problem with Democracy is that nobody, not even (or perhaps 'especially' is the proper word) Americans, actually believes in it. The legitimacy of each and every electoral victory is challenged. The losers never lose "on the issues", only because of some flaw in the process or circumstance.

"We didn't lose on issues, we lost because Obama got more people to vote for him."

No shit? That's how elections work, Ryan.

90 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:16:34am

re: #87 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts DERPing over possible Kerry cabinet post

[Embedded content]

Derp.

91 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:16:38am

re: #71 Kragar

ABC station botches Petraeus book cover: ‘ALL Up IN My Snatch’

[Embedded content]

At that same link...it looks like ruggedly handsome neo-facist Bryan Fischer wants to go all Krystalnacht on those brown skinned socialists from Mexico.

While many Republicans are calling on their party to be more inclusive after stinging losses in the 2012 election, the director of issues analysis of a conservative fundamentalist Christian organization says that it’s time to “clamp down” on immigrants because Hispanics voted for President Barack Obama.

92 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:17:19am

Keep on bitching about urban voters Republicans and the more those voters will continue to want nothing to do with your sorry excuse for a political party.

93 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:18:05am

re: #91 celticdragon

At that same link...it looks like ruggedly handsome neo-facist Bryan Fischer wants to go all Krystalnacht on those brown skinned socialists from Mexico.

Yay for Know Nothingism.

94 Four More Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:18:16am
95 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:18:25am

re: #90 Gus

Derp.

Is @JGalt9 a parody account, ya think?

96 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:19:08am

re: #95 Vicious Babushka

Is @JGalt9 a parody account, ya think?

Ask it.

97 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:19:12am

re: #91 celticdragon

At that same link...it looks like ruggedly handsome neo-facist Bryan Fischer wants to go all Krystalnacht on those brown skinned socialists from Mexico.

Let us pray that those sort of remarks cost Fischer much of his influence, or the pushback causes him to flounce from the GOP.

98 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:20:03am

re: #92 HappyWarrior

Keep on bitching about urban voters Republicans and the more those voters will continue to want nothing to do with your sorry excuse for a political party.

1. Insult 47% of the voters
2. Lose election
3. Insult even more of the voters...
4. ???
5. Victory!

99 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:20:06am

Ryan actually revealed quite a lot about the right wing view in this simple statement. When he says "urban voters" gave Obama the election and it had nothing to do with "issues," he's clearly inferring that these "urban voters" voted for Obama for some other reason, because they're too stupid to understand the issues.

I guess I'm no longer surprised when people try to defend this kind of right wing bullshit, but it's unfortunate.

100 uncah91  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:21:05am

re: #86 Sol Berdinowitz

Because they believe that "urbans" only vote for free stuff.

I honestly don't think he is just referring to blacks. I think it is the "dirty hippie" argument.

Drop your average suburban, white Kansas voter down in Alphabet City, Queens, Chinatown, etc. in NYC and they think "These people aren't like me. They have no values. They aren't "American".

It's still a bogus, bullshit tribal argument though.

101 Lidane  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:21:55am

re: #78 Obdicut

I don't see what good it does to pretend that the only reason politics are different in (some) rural areas vs (some) urban areas is because of actual policy differences. It's a breathtakingly naive point of view.

It's a way to marginalize people. If you base your entire identity around Real Americans voting and those Others, the "urban voters", then you can bullshit yourself that you're right and that those other people are wrong and naive and are just a bunch of greedy moochers and takers while you do all the hard work.

102 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:22:48am

re: #96 Gus

Ask it.

I think it's a real wingnut, not followed by enough liberals to be a spoof. @RepubliGAL is a parody account, very funny, worth following.

103 GunstarGreen  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:23:10am

re: #99 Charles Johnson

Ryan actually revealed quite a lot about the right wing view in this simple statement. When he says "urban voters" gave Obama the election and it had nothing to do with "issues," he's clearly inferring that these "urban voters" voted for Obama for some other reason, because they're too stupid to understand the issues.

I guess I'm no longer surprised when people try to defend this kind of right wing bullshit, but it's unfortunate.

Much like Palin's 'Real America' defense along the lines of "Oh, I wasn't saying anything bad about the rest of America". That's not how adjectives work, assholes. Applying an adjective is done to set a noun (or pronoun) apart from others that do not warrant the adjective.

You cannot say "We didn't lose on issues, we lost because of the urban vote" without directly implying that "urban voters" do not vote on issues. There's nothing to parse here, it's how English fucking works as a language.

104 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:23:13am

re: #100 uncah91

I honestly don't think he is just referring to blacks. I think it is the "dirty hippie" argument.

Drop your average suburban, white Kansas voter down in Alphabet City, Queens, Chinatown, etc. in NYC and they think "These people aren't like me. They have no values. They aren't "American".

It's still a bogus, bullshit tribal argument though.

How about 'brown people of many hues other than white'?

105 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:23:19am

re: #102 Vicious Babushka

I think it's a real wingnut, not followed by enough liberals to be a spoof. @RepubliGAL is a parody account, very funny, worth following.

Yeah. I didn't think it was a parody.

106 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:23:34am

See, this is the difference I see between Ryan and say Obama. Obama seems to recognize that it doesn't matter if we're urban or rural, we're all Americans. Ryan on the other hand prefers to subscribe to the right wing tribal mentality that if you live in a city that you're somehow less of an American. It's the same crap mentality that brought us "Macaca and the real world of Virginia."

107 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:23:52am

I actually found out that President Obama and I both like the TV show Homeland. Had I only known that before I voted against him!

108 Inconsequential Consequence  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:23:58am

re: #23 Obdicut

Wow. Ryan is actually admitting that they lost because of turnout, and yet somehow doesn't think that turnout reflects support of issues. There's a clear implication that the 'urban' voters don't vote for ideas. Otherwise, Ryan's statement makes no sense.

Unless those ideas they do vote for are multiple versions of "I want stuff".

109 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:24:40am

Here's a list of the losing VP candidate over the past couple of decades, going backwards from the last election:

Ryan, Palin, Edwards, Lieberman, Kemp, Quayle (incumbent), Bentsen, Ferraro, Mondale (incumbent).

Out of this group, only Lloyd Bentsen (who subsequently became Treasury Secretary), and Sen. Joe Lieberman and Rep. Paul Ryan - have had held public office post-election.

110 uncah91  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:25:03am

re: #104 wrenchwench

How about 'brown people of many hues other than white'?

Yes.

But also, the white people who feel comfortable with those brown people.

111 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:27:36am

re: #110 uncah91

Yes.

But also, the white people who feel comfortable with those brown people.

You mean the n....on-white lovers?

112 celticdragon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:28:01am

Gonna lay down and rest my back for a bit.

Later today, I have to get some special class supplies for my spouse. She has a forensic anthropology simulated crime scene dig (presumably a buried murder victim simulation) on Saturday and some top state law enforcement folks are going to be watching and evaluating, including the head of the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation. No pressure at all...

113 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:28:07am

re: #109 RadicalModerate

Here's a list of the losing VP candidate over the past couple of decades, going backwards from the last election:

Ryan, Palin, Edwards, Lieberman, Kemp, Quayle (incumbent), Bentsen, Ferraro, Mondale (incumbent).

Out of this group, only Lloyd Bentsen (who subsequently became Treasury Secretary), and Sens. Joe Lieberman and Paul Ryan - have had held public office post-election.

Well losing VP candidate is a pretty big stigma. In fact, I think Bob Dole may be the only one who was nominated for president and that was twenty years after he ran for VP.

114 Mattand  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:28:16am

re: #99 Charles Johnson

Ryan actually revealed quite a lot about the right wing view in this simple statement. When he says "urban voters" gave Obama the election and it had nothing to do with "issues," he's clearly inferring that these "urban voters" voted for Obama for some other reason, because they're too stupid to understand the issues.

I guess I'm no longer surprised when people try to defend this kind of right wing bullshit, but it's unfortunate.

The quasi-racist remarks aren't surprising. The denial about conservative issues being repudiated is amazing. Show how far the rot goes.

115 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:28:30am

Klayman (Suspected Pedophile): Conservatives will 'Soon Become the New n*****s'

Larry Klayman, founder of Judicial Watch and Freedom Watch, Klayman warns in his WorldNetDaily column that conservatives who oppose President Obama will “soon become the ‘new n*****s,’ relegated to the back of the bus – as the bus speeds away to quickly fall over the fiscal, social and moral cliff,” arguing that they are treated just like African Americans were during Jim Crow. The increasingly delusional Klayman cited his “Citizens Grand Jury” as a way to indict Obama, Vice President Biden, Supreme Court Justices Roberts and Kagan for all their supposed crimes, making sure that America does not “die and go the way of ancient Greece, Rome and other lost civilizations.”

He claims that Obama won re-election thanks to “his growing voter hoards of socialists, communists, anti-Semites, anti-Christians, atheists, radical gays and lesbians, feminists, illegal immigrants, Muslims, anti-Anglo whites and others,” and urges conservatives to resist “the bondage and slavery Obama and his rising tide of supporters have in store for us” by using “civil disobedience” and channeling Mahatma Gandhi and Jesus Christ.

116 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:28:31am

re: #109 RadicalModerate

Here's a list of the losing VP candidate over the past couple of decades, going backwards from the last election:

Ryan, Palin, Edwards, Lieberman, Kemp, Quayle (incumbent), Bentsen, Ferraro, Mondale (incumbent).

Out of this group, only Lloyd Bentsen (who subsequently became Treasury Secretary), and Sen. Joe Lieberman and Rep. Paul Ryan - have had held public office post-election.

So trivia question and no Fair googling it.....who was Nixon's VP running mate when he lost to Kennedy?

117 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:28:43am

re: #111 wrenchwench

You mean the n....on-white lovers?

That's right, the neo-bicyclists who think both wheels should be the same size!
/ ;)

118 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:29:04am

re: #114 Mattand

The quasi-racist remarks aren't surprising. The denial about conservative issues being repudiated is amazing. Show how far the rot goes.

WE LOST BECAUSE WE WEREN"T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH! One of those little lies that they tell themselves over and over again to make themselves feel better about their joke of an ideology.

119 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:29:22am

re: #116 Big Steve

So trivia question and no Fair googling it.....who was Nixon's VP running mate when he lost to Kennedy?

Henry Cabot Lodge, who later became JFK's ambassador to Vietnam.

120 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:29:50am

re: #118 HappyWarrior

WE LOST BECAUSE WE WEREN"T CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH! One of those little lies that they tell themselves over and over again to make themselves feel better about their joke of an ideology.

Let them run Santorum/Bachmann in 2016 and put that little meme to rest when they lose all 50 states.

121 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:30:18am

re: #113 HappyWarrior

Well losing VP candidate is a pretty big stigma. In fact, I think Bob Dole may be the only one who was nominated for president and that was twenty years after he ran for VP.

And the Ford/Dole ticket was also a bit of an outlier since it was immediately following the Nixon resignation. I think the Republicans could have had Christ appear and run on the GOP ticket in that election and they still would have lost.

122 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:30:34am

re: #120 Vicious Babushka

Let them run Santorum/Bachmann in 2016 and put that little meme to rest when they lose all 50 states.

I think that's what needs to happen really for them to finally realize that their brand of conservatism isn't a winner with the majority of the American public

123 Bulworth  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:31:17am
"we clearly didn’t lose it on those issues,”

Conservatism has never failed, it has only been failed. /

124 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:31:18am

re: #119 HappyWarrior

you win the cigar

125 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:31:43am

re: #121 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

And the Ford/Dole ticket was also a bit of an outlier since it was immediately following the Nixon resignation. I think the Republicans could have had Christ appear and run on the GOP ticket in that election and they still would have lost.

Ford certainly was in a pickle after the Nixon pardon. Looking at the statistics though, I'm shocked it was close as it was but I wasn't around in '76.

126 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:32:03am

re: #124 Big Steve

you win the cigar

Woot.

128 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:32:34am

re: #125 HappyWarrior

Ford certainly was in a pickle after the Nixon pardon. Looking at the statistics though, I'm shocked it was close as it was but I wasn't around in '76.

I voted for Gerald Ford in '76. My first presidential election.

129 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:32:36am

re: #120 Vicious Babushka

I'll put money on them running Allen West, because, hey, he's black! Urban votes here we come! Plus, he's batshit-crazy conservative and a fire-breather. I don't think they'll go for another milquetoast person like Romney. It was Christie, but he pissed that away by dealing with PBO.

130 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:33:10am

re: #87 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts DERPing over possible Kerry cabinet post

[Embedded content]

Never mind that the #2 individual contributor to the Romney campaign (second only to Casino-man) was the architect of the entire "swift-boat" campaign from 2004.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

131 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:33:18am
132 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:33:31am

re: #127 Kragar

Pat Robertson Excuses Petraeus: 'Here's a Good-Looking Lady Throwing Herself at Him'

...

Just like Eve with that apple! Adam didn't do anything wrong!

133 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:33:36am

re: #125 HappyWarrior

Ford certainly was in a pickle after the Nixon pardon. Looking at the statistics though, I'm shocked it was close as it was but I wasn't around in '76.

Nixon, but also Vietnam falling and a recession.

134 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:33:37am

re: #128 Vicious Babushka

I voted for Gerald Ford in '76. My first presidential election.

Gerald Ford's probably the most recent Republican candidate I can actually see myself voting for. I've never been a big Carter fan and Ford was pretty socially progressive anyhow.

135 Bulworth  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:33:58am

re: #120 Vicious Babushka

Let them run Santorum/Bachmann in 2016 and put that little meme to rest when they lose all 50 states.

I suspect such a ticket would still win Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, perhaps the Dakotas, and the southern Gulf states. Nevertheless, such a campaign sure would be fun to watch.

136 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:34:01am

re: #125 HappyWarrior

Ford certainly was in a pickle after the Nixon pardon. Looking at the statistics though, I'm shocked it was close as it was but I wasn't around in '76.

Carter/Ford was the first election I could vote in. It was close because a significant portion of the country still thought Nixon had been railroaded and Ford was seen as a decent kind of guy

137 abolitionist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:34:43am

re: #116 Big Steve

So trivia question and no Fair googling it.....who was Nixon's VP running mate when he lost to Kennedy?

That would be our ambassador to the UN. "Don't wait for the translation". Name? [edit]

138 Lidane  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:34:44am
139 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:35:46am

re: #127 Kragar

Pat Robertson Excuses Petraeus: 'Here's a Good-Looking Lady Throwing Herself at Him'

It's a Biblically-sanctioned relationship: a man, his wife, and his concubine.

140 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:35:51am

re: #128 Vicious Babushka

I voted for Gerald Ford in '76. My first presidential election.

re: #136 Big Steve

Carter/Ford was the first election I could vote in. It was close because a significant portion of the country still thought Nixon had been railroaded and Ford was seen as a decent kind of guy

Three Cheers for those born in the 1950's!

141 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:36:00am

re: #137 abolitionist

That would be our ambassador to the UN. "Don't wait for the translation". Name?

Adlai Stevenson.

142 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:36:41am

re: #127 Kragar

Pat Robertson Excuses Petraeus: 'Here's a Good-Looking Lady Throwing Herself at Him'

Isn't Pat the same guy who said leaving your wife because she was sick was okay too? Morality? I do not think Pat actually understands it. But then again why should I be shocked? This is the man who said we deserved 9/11 for social liberalism. Why he isn't universally despised and seen on the same level as Fred Phelps, I don't know.

143 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:37:22am

re: #141 Ghost of Tom Joad

Adlai Stevenson.

Yep. Only person in the last 60 years I think to run for president on a losing major party ticket two elections in a row.

144 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:37:34am

re: #136 Big Steve

Carter/Ford was the first election I could vote in. It was close because a significant portion of the country still thought Nixon had been railroaded and Ford was seen as a decent kind of guy

I don't remember that, and I'm within 4 years of your age, apparently.

145 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:37:53am

The GOP has it's undeniable history. Still, growing cities=growing liberal votes. Relatively declining rural populations mean fewer conservative voters. This is an established fact. Little or no dispute.

So how might Paul Ryan or any of the TP republicans publicly address this? IMO even if they dropped the racism the demographics are going to dominate.

I do not expect anything to significantly push city dwellers conservative, nor rural populations liberal.

146 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:38:18am

Dole/Kemp '96!

They never took down the website.

147 Four More Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:38:33am
148 bratwurst  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:40:33am

Just in case anyone here is in danger of doing so...

149 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:40:42am

re: #120 Vicious Babushka

Let them run Santorum/Bachmann in 2016 and put that little meme to rest when they lose all 50 states.

That ticket is possible but I still expect that it'll be Santorum/Huckabee in 2016. Santorum is the anointed one since he came in second this year. They'll need a white male "happy theocrat" to keep the so-called evangelicals in their pup tent.

The platform will be pure Santorum Falagism: God, Nation & Family. Pure murderous anti-modernism as blessed by the church in Spain and emulated all over Central and South America with equally murderous delight by their far right.

I can only pray that it goes down in flames but I can't help fearing the worst.

150 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:40:55am

Benghazi.

151 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:41:26am

re: #145 Daniel Ballard

The GOP has it's undeniable history. Still, growing cities=growing liberal votes. Relatively declining rural populations mean fewer conservative voters. This is an established fact. Little or no dispute.

So how might Paul Ryan or any of the TP republicans publicly address this? IMO even if they dropped the racism the demographics are going to dominate.

I do not expect anything to significantly push city dwellers conservative, nor rural populations liberal.

The racism of the Republican Party is why the demographics are going to dominate. It's not urban/rural. It's white/non-white.

Glossing over that isn't going to help anyone.

152 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:42:06am

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Dole Kemp '96!

They never took down the website.

Wow...talk about a time warp.

I'm even more surprised that the RNC (I guess) has been footing the bill for hosting and the domain after that election...for sixteen years.

153 Mattand  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:42:13am

re: #136 Big Steve

Carter/Ford was the first election I could vote in. It was close because a significant portion of the country still thought Nixon had been railroaded and Ford was seen as a decent kind of guy

Christ, I know people who still think Nixon was railroaded.

154 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:42:49am

re: #152 Ben G. Hazi

Wow...talk about a time warp.

I'm even more surprised that the RNC (I guess) has been footing the bill for hosting and the domain...for sixteen years.

Is that a Packard Bell PC I see there?

155 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:42:58am

re: #145 Daniel Ballard

Rural populations used to be 'progressive', economically. Farmers were a large part of the economic liberals during the New Deal.

What changed that a lot was the appeal made by the GOP to white voters, starting with the Southern Strategy and continuing into today's self-deporation/just want free stuff/birtherism strategy.

156 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:43:02am
157 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:43:27am

re: #152 Ben G. Hazi

Wow...talk about a time warp.

I'm even more surprised that the RNC (I guess) has been footing the bill for hosting and the domain after that election...for sixteen years.

It's probably hosted by a historical society or a nonprofit or something.

158 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:43:31am

re: #152 Ben G. Hazi

Wow...talk about a time warp.

I'm even more surprised that the RNC (I guess) has been footing the bill for hosting and the domain...for sixteen years.

"The Dole Kemp 96 Web Site is Presented for Educational Purposes by 4President.org"

159 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:43:40am

re: #156 Charles Johnson

Romney and Ryan carried the Confederacy.

Except for Florida and Virginia.

160 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:43:40am

re: #148 bratwurst

Just in case anyone here is in danger of doing so...

[Embedded content]

More importantly, don't forget Ben Vereen.

161 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:43:55am

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Dole/Kemp '96!

They never took down the website.

Dole was a Republican? Incredible!
/

162 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:44:10am

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Dole/Kemp '96!

They never took down the website.

I think we just crashed their server.....Probably got more hits today than in the last decade. Nice find!

163 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:44:33am

re: #136 Big Steve

Carter/Ford was the first election I could vote in. It was close because a significant portion of the country still thought Nixon had been railroaded and Ford was seen as a decent kind of guy

That and Carter was a big unknown from the deep south. I was too young to vote but I knew more than one Democrat who voted Ford because they didn't feel anyone from Georgia could be trusted.

164 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:44:35am

re: #133 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Nixon, but also Vietnam falling and a recession.

Don't forget about the mideast oil embargo from 1973 (where oil prices more than tripled over the period of a year's time) and the extended stock market downturn during the same time period because of the "Nixon Shock". Ford, and subsequently Carter inherited a really, really horrible economy and only started to turn things around when Reagan rolled into office.

People tend to forget that it was Jimmy Carter who brought Paul Volcker to head the Federal Reserve, and whose tight monetary policies finally got inflation and interest rates under control.

165 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:44:52am

re: #158 Gus

"The Dole
Kemp 96 Web Site is Presented for Educational Purposes by 4President.org"

Guess that would explain it...

166 uncah91  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:45:13am

re: #155 Obdicut

Rural populations used to be 'progressive', economically. Farmers were a large part of the economic liberals during the New Deal.

What changed that a lot was the appeal made by the GOP to white voters, starting with the Southern Strategy and continuing into today's self-deporation/just want free stuff/birtherism strategy.

Well, the other thing to keep in mind is who farms anymore. The small farm holders that made up that part of the coalition don't exist anymore.

167 Mattand  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:45:23am

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Here's the web page for the guy who designed the site.

Pay attention, Charles, you could learn from this guy.

168 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:45:31am

re: #156 Charles Johnson

so WTF Indiana!

169 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:46:09am

[Link: www.livingroomcandidate.org...]
This is a pretty neat site too. Has TV ads going all the way back to 1952. Look out for the really weird Adlai Stevenson one that tries to link Bob Taft and Dwight Eisenhower together.

170 Inconsequential Consequence  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:46:31am

re: #155 Obdicut

Rural populations used to be 'progressive', economically. Farmers were a large part of the economic liberals during the New Deal.

What changed that a lot was the appeal made by the GOP to white voters, starting with the Southern Strategy and continuing into today's self-deporation/just want free stuff/birtherism strategy.

In Canada rural communities/farmers developed financial cooperatives, single-pay medicine and what is now called the NDP, a very left leaning political party.

171 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:48:18am

re: #155 Obdicut

Rural populations used to be 'progressive', economically. Farmers were a large part of the economic liberals during the New Deal.

What changed that a lot was the appeal made by the GOP to white voters, starting with the Southern Strategy and continuing into today's self-deporation/just want free stuff/birtherism strategy.

Debs did his best in fact in rural states like Montana, Idaho, and others. I agree the Southern Strategy is what explains this more than anything.

172 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:49:08am

General demoted for lavish travel, spending

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has demoted the former head of U.S. Africa Command who was accused of spending thousands of dollars on lavish travel and other unauthorized expenses, a senior U.S. official said Tuesday.

Panetta stripped Gen. William "Kip" Ward of a star, which means that he will now retire as a three-star lieutenant general despite arguments from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff against the demotion. Ward also has been ordered also repay the government $82,000.

173 blueraven  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:50:04am

re: #107 Big Steve

I actually found out that President Obama and I both like the TV show Homeland. Had I only known that before I voted against him!

Seems you are not the only approver

Gallup and Rasmussen both have Obama's approval/disapproval at +11 today

Gallup 52/41
Rasmussen 55/44

Rasmussen hasn't had Obama at 55% approval since June 2009

174 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:50:55am

re: #172 Kragar

General demoted for lavish travel, spending

What, no mistress?

175 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:51:01am

re: #168 Big Steve

so WTF Indiana!

[...]

Indiana's Klan organization reached its peak of power in the following years, when it had 250,000 members, an estimated 30% of native-born white men.

[...]

176 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:53:00am

re: #175 wrenchwench

It also had a lot of southern sympathizers during the Civil War I believe. Reminds me, I'm finally reading Doris Kearns Goodwin's Team of Rivals in anticipation for Lincoln. Wow, really good book. 19th century history usually isn't my cup of tea but this is a great book. Coming away liking Seward the most of the "rivals" so far. Still a big Abe fan though, how could one not be?

177 Lidane  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:53:08am

re: #172 Kragar

General demoted for lavish travel, spending

So what happens to the commander in Afghanistan who sent thousands of e-mails and got himself involved in the Petraeus affair?

178 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:53:39am

re: #172 Kragar

General demoted for lavish travel, spending

Sniff. His retirement pay will now be "only" $208,802/year. Sniff. So sad.

179 Big Steve  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:55:03am

re: #176 HappyWarrior

Gore Vidal's "Lincoln" is excellent insider view as well. It is fiction but won several historical accuracy awards.

180 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:55:38am

re: #88 Gus

@Gus_802 @EricBoehlert I like how angry you guys are, even though you won.

Easy answer for that. They love anger.

181 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:55:43am

re: #177 Lidane

So what happens to the commander in Afghanistan who sent thousands of e-mails and got himself involved in the Petraeus affair?

I think it is down to a few hundred emails now. So probably just a slap on the wrist and being sent to quarters without any supper and internet privileges.

182 erik_t  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:55:44am

re: #172 Kragar

General demoted for lavish travel, spending

Africa Command, eh? You know what's in Africa? Benghazi.

Another decent and honorable veteran made to fall on his sword to further the leftist coverup.

183 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:56:13am

re: #179 Big Steve

Gore Vidal's "Lincoln" is excellent insider view as well. It is fiction but won several historical accuracy awards.

I read Vidal's fictionalized Burr biography my first year in college. Fascinating read too even though it was weird especially the attempt to claim that Martin Van Buren was actually Burr's bastard son.

184 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:56:37am

re: #182 erik_t

Africa Command, eh? You know what's in Africa? Benghazi.

Another decent and honorable veteran made to fall on his sword to further the leftist coverup.

BEN VEREEN! BEN VEREEN! BEN VEREEN!

185 RadicalModerate  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:57:30am

re: #169 HappyWarrior

[Link: www.livingroomcandidate.org...]
This is a pretty neat site too. Has TV ads going all the way back to 1952. Look out for the really weird Adlai Stevenson one that tries to link Bob Taft and Dwight Eisenhower together.

Take a look at the 1968 entries. You really can see the genesis of the "Southern Strategy" starting in those Nixon ads, especially when you compare them to the Humphery ones.

186 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:57:37am

Petraeus twist: General Allen probed over emails to woman

i told you if you re-elected that socialist he'd let the aliens probe american soldiers

187 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:59:15am

re: #185 RadicalModerate

Take a look at the 1968 entries. You really can see the genesis of the "Southern Strategy" starting in those Nixon ads, especially when you compare them to the Humphery ones.

I watched that documentary on Ethel Kennedy the other night. Man, almost made me tear up to think we could have had RFK instead of Nixon.

188 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:59:37am

“I don’t think we lost it on those budget issues, especially on Medicare, we clearly didn’t lose it on those issues,”

and your proof is what??, mr we'll-work-out-the-numbers-later

189 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:01:37am

re: #188 engineer cat

“I don’t think we lost it on those budget issues, especially on Medicare, we clearly didn’t lose it on those issues,”

and your proof is what??, mr we'll-work-out-the-numbers-later

Their internal polling told them so.

190 Lidane  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:02:25am

re: #188 engineer cat

“I don’t think we lost it on those budget issues, especially on Medicare, we clearly didn’t lose it on those issues,”

and your proof is what??, mr we'll-work-out-the-numbers-later

Republican math, of course.

191 Mattand  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:03:38am

About to listen to last night's Daily Show. I'm hoping Stewart pounds Huckabee into the turf, but I have a feeling Jon will go easy on him so that Huck comes back.

192 Tigger2  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:04:03am

re: #148 bratwurst

Just in case anyone here is in danger of doing so...

[Embedded content]

Don't forget Trumps an idiot.

193 makeitstop  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:04:41am
194 Four More Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:04:47am

re: #191 Mattand

About to listen to last night's Daily Show. I'm hoping Stewart pounds Huckabee into the turf, but I have a feeling Jon will go easy on him so that Huck comes back.

He gives him a lot of shit over an ad the Huck voiced.

195 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:05:30am

re: #180 makeitstop

Easy answer for that. They love anger.

Treacher of course is saying we're angry. He's a wingnut bozo.

196 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:05:35am

Breaking: Romney torches briefcase that held all the details to his fiscal, social, and foreign policies. "YOU'LL NEVER KNOW WHAT THEY WERE NOW, YOU FOOLS!" Romney yells at non-existent crowd.

197 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:06:15am

re: #151 wrenchwench

Hmmm, no there have been a couple papers describing this as a density driven lifestyle issue. It over or underlays the racial component I'm sure.
But fixing the racism is not going to change the demographic trend.

[Link: www.stanford.edu...]

[Link: www.econtalk.org...]

198 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:07:49am

Turn out in Urban Areas? I'd call Ryan a fucking Neanderthal, but that would be an insult to Neanderthals and I have no reason to think badly of them as a group. Although, I suspect Ryan thinks they all live in Inner parts of Big Cities.

The election is over, you lost --moveon.org

How is everyone this day?

199 Four More Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:07:56am
200 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:08:33am

re: #199 Four More Tears

[Embedded content]

ACORN!

201 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:09:00am

re: #199 Four More Tears

[Embedded content]

Same happened in Philly and Chicago.

202 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:09:05am

re: #187 HappyWarrior

I watched that documentary on Ethel Kennedy the other night. Man, almost made me tear up to think we could have had RFK instead of Nixon.

Was a real strange series of events that led us to where we are today.

203 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:09:55am

re: #201 HappyWarrior

Same happened in Philly and Chicago.

VOTER FRAUD!1!TY

204 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:10:16am

re: #197 Daniel Ballard

But fixing the racism is not going to change the demographic trend.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that if the GOP dropped the racism, it wouldn't attract them more minority voters?

205 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:10:17am

re: #202 Gretchen G.Tiger

Was a real strange series of events that led us to where we are today.

Yep, I did a research project on that election for a class I took. Seemed like Humphrey was closing in the last days.

206 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:11:32am

To me the problem with the GOP is simple, they're an exclusive as opposed to an inclusive party. That's not appealing to most people.

207 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:12:08am

re: #204 Obdicut

Yes, but not enough to solve the demographic problem. it's a larger trend.

208 Gus  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:12:34am

Bzzt.

209 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:13:15am

re: #198 Gretchen G.Tiger

Turn out in Urban Areas? I'd call Ryan a fucking Neanderthal, but that would be an insult to Neanderthals and I have no reason to think badly of them as a group. Although, I suspect Ryan thinks they all live in Inner parts of Big Cities.

The election is over, you lost --moveon.org

How is everyone this day?

Laundry and neatening the apartment. Then cooking dinner.

Baked sweet potatoes, reheated pulled pork, and a vegetable to be named later. Might also try out this pumpkin-cranberry scone mix I got at Trader Joe's.

210 Four More Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:13:16am

Heh.

211 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:14:25am

re: #204 Obdicut

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that if the GOP dropped the racism, it wouldn't attract them more minority voters?

There would still be a lot of people in the 95% or 47% or whatever the current percentage is for the middle class.

Even without the War on Women, they GOP was condenscending and insulting. I really got the impression both were trying to play the "benelovent, loving, always-knows-better, only-wants-the-best-for-you father" version of G-d.

I want a POTUS, not a father or a G-d.

212 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:15:04am

re: #209 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Laundry and neatening the apartment. Then cooking dinner.

Baked sweet potatoes, reheated pulled pork, and a vegetable to be named later. Might also try out this pumpkin-cranberry scone mix I got at Trader Joe's.

Does Feline Overlord line scones?

213 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:16:13am

Heard and bit on NPR Satellite Radio yesterday in which they played an audio of Kristol saying that there is no reason not to raise taxes on the rich. "He never understood the position the GOP was taking on that."

WTF?

214 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:17:06am

re: #204 Obdicut

Multi tasking at work here but I want to add that the party has to move left to get more urban votes of whatever race or social economic status. Fixing the racism alone will be inadequate to making them fully competitive.

215 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:17:25am

re: #212 Gretchen G.Tiger

Does Feline Overlord line scones?

Will probably find out. He does like buttermilk biscuits. His current supervisory task is using me as a radiant heat pillow while the dryer runs. The apartment is a bit cold since I have the window open to air it out - smells a bit like dog due to my guests rescuing clothes and such from their inhabitable duplex. (And one reason to get that stuff laundered as well, though it doesn't quite get the smell out.)

216 Kragar  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:18:50am

Jon Stewart: "I'M THE WORST JOURNALIST EVER!"

When Broadwell’s book came out, she appeared on The Daily Show to promote it — but Stewart had no clue there was more to the story. Hindsight being 20/20, Stewart took a fresh look at the evidence.

“The whole thing was like innuendo after innuendo, and the whole time I’m like dah,” Stewart said. “I had her right there talking about how thick a coat of awesome sauce Petraeus is bathed in. The thing never crossed my fucking mind!”

217 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:19:54am

re: #207 Daniel Ballard

Yes, but not enough to solve the demographic problem. it's a larger trend.

What demographic problem are you talking about, if not the one related to race?

218 Obdicut  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:20:33am

re: #217 Obdicut

Ah, saw your post above. Gotcha.

219 sizzzzlerz  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:20:48am

Yeah, urban turnout plus the fact that more of them put an X next to Obama's name than Romney's because, like, they didn't buy what you were selling.

Other than that, you would of won, guy! Good job with the analysis, though.

220 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:26:03am

I've been getting the impression lately, that a lot of "men" are afraid of being people. They feel more comfortable in the role of "advisor, mentor, father, boss, g-d."

I don't think it's a religious problem. I'm not qualified to diagnosis it, but I would suggest a few counselling sessions and perhaps meds.

I'm getting more and more disturbed that people (not just men, but people) are very willing to ursurp their version of G-d's power and try to judge and control others.

It's more than hypocritial, it's pathological.

221 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:27:18am

re: #171 HappyWarrior

Debs did his best in fact in rural states like Montana, Idaho, and others. I agree the Southern Strategy is what explains this more than anything.

I'd say it's also two other facts:

1. Democrats became seen as more urban and some rural people, especially in the Mountain West (also called Far West) identify themselves in opposition to large cities.

2. The rise of environmentalism as a part of the left. This may seem counter intuitive, for why wouldn't someone in North Dakota want his state's prairies protected? The answer is: Become he'd rather make money selling stuff to the people drilling for oil on the land instead and the environmentists would like to keep those people from drilling.

222 Charles Johnson  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:28:23am

re: #221 Dark_Falcon

Also, black people.

223 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:29:56am

re: #222 Charles Johnson

Also, black people.

and "urban elites."

224 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:30:46am

re: #223 HappyWarrior

and "urban elites."

Don't forget those female, lesbian, black, urban elites.

225 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:32:13am

re: #224 Gretchen G.Tiger

Don't forget those female, lesbian, black, urban elites.

Ha yep.

226 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:32:17am

re: #207 Daniel Ballard

Yes, but not enough to solve the demographic problem. it's a larger trend.

OK, it's bigger than race, race is also a component, but fixing racism alone won't save the Republicans. They have to move left to appeal to city-dwellers, who are becoming more of a majority overall, and world-wide.

Sounds more like a problem for conservatives than a 'demographic problem'. Reality really does have a liberal bias.

227 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:32:57am

re: #221 Dark_Falcon

I'd say it's also two other facts:

1. Democrats became seen as more urban and some rural people, especially in the Mountain West (also called Far West) identify themselves in opposition to large cities.

2. The rise of environmentalism as a part of the left. This may seem counter intuitive, for why wouldn't someone in North Dakota want his state's prairies protected? The answer is: Become he'd rather make money selling stuff to the people drilling for oil on the land instead and the environmentists would like to keep those people from drilling.

Well the opposition to people in big cities is rooted in bigotry and this is coming from a rural resident mind you.

228 Political Atheist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:33:26am

re: #217 Obdicut

What demographic problem are you talking about, if not the one related to race?

As per my 197

229 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:36:29am

re: #227 HappyWarrior

Well the opposition to people in big cities is rooted in bigotry and this is coming from a rural resident mind you.

Not entirely. Some people just don't like urban living, and some of those people move to states which don't have big cities.

230 wrenchwench  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:38:18am

re: #221 Dark_Falcon

I'd say it's also two other facts:

1. Democrats became seen as more urban and some rural people, especially in the Mountain West (also called Far West) identify themselves in opposition to large cities.

2. The rise of environmentalism as a part of the left. This may seem counter intuitive, for why wouldn't someone in North Dakota want his state's prairies protected? The answer is: Become he'd rather make money selling stuff to the people drilling for oil on the land instead and the environmentists would like to keep those people from drilling.

Environmentalism is a left thing because maximizing profits without regard for other people is a right thing.

231 HappyWarrior  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:40:16am

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

Not entirely. Some people just don't like urban living, and some of those people move to states which don't have big cities.

Well of course not all of of it is rooted in bigotry but let's be honest here, a lot of it is. It was first the fear of immigrants in the 19th century and early 20th century and now it's the fear of minorities, "elites", etc. It's a very real hostility to urban residents that exists. A belief that they are more "true Americans" than the urbanite. It's what politicians like Palin feed on to get support. Makes me fucking sick because while I don't mind rural living, I don't have anything against urban living either.

232 Jaerik  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:41:09am

In his defense (which I can't believe I just said) he could actually mean urban. As in... cities. Not necessarily the dog-whistle.

But that would be even more damning, as it would imply there's something about the GOP ideology that doesn't work in the most populous, rich, economically important, productive, and developed parts of the country.

233 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:43:21am

re: #154 Gus

Is that a Packard Bell PC I see there?

I tried to get to the volunteer page so I could sign up. Link must be dead.

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 12:46:10pm

re: #2 chonguey

That's why Iowa went to Obama: because of the huge Urban areas.

You know what black Iowans are like.

//

235 majii  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 12:48:59pm

re: #15 celticdragon

That's one of the GOP's major flaws. They don't know that we Black Americans are more tuned into politics than they can imagine. They have no clue how insulted a lot of us felt when they claimed that we voted for BO in 2008 simply because he's black. Simpletons will always look for simple explanations to explain complex issues.

236 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 12:49:17pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Because anyone who looks at the electoral maps knows that the urban areas (AKA densely populated cities) lean heavily D. That's a fact and there's nothing wrong with mentioning that. It's a problem for Republicans.

Yes, it is, but whenever they mention it, why do they always seem so deeply resentful that a set of populations they go out of their way to insult on a regular basis didn't vote for them? It's their problem to fix, and they seem to have no clue how to do that, or even that they could.

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 12:50:57pm

re: #30 celticdragon

I am still convinced that the teabaggers will force a vote on impeachment. Probably something out of the fever swamps surrounding Benghazi.

You can't impeach the president because a consulate was attacked. It just doesn't work like that.

238 philosophus invidius  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 1:01:21pm

Shorter Ryan: "Obamaphone!"

239 KiTA  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 1:12:48pm

This is the exact takeaway I hoped they wouldn't go for, but deep in my heart fully expected. They honestly won't learn anything until they lose all 3 branches a few times in a row, will they?

240 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 3:30:30pm

re: #151 wrenchwench

Totally agree. There are a lot of rural blacks who happen to also vote democrat as well as lots of urban whites who vote conservative.

241 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 6:09:41pm

re: #140 Big Steve

I voted for Carter. Also my first pres election.

My dad was fiercely Republican, but the Nixon scandal really shook his confidence in the GOP. He was not a doubter. He accepted the truth that Nixon was responsible for the dirty tricks. But I am not sure he could bring himself to vote for anyone but Ford. I never asked him. Now I think I should have.

242 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 6:19:04pm

re: #156 Charles Johnson

I'm stealing this for my blog. Your work, or someone else's?

243 Pip's Squeak  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:29:52pm

re: #175 wrenchwench

Not only this. Happen to be halfway through
Tarkington's The Gentleman from Indiana (1899), in which the 'White Caps', a precursor to the KKK, play a major role.

244 CuriousLurker  Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:23:43pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

Ryan actually revealed quite a lot about the right wing view in this simple statement. When he says "urban voters" gave Obama the election and it had nothing to do with "issues," he's clearly inferring that these "urban voters" voted for Obama for some other reason, because they're too stupid to understand the issues.

THIS. When the GOP wins, it's on the issues because Republican voters care deeply about about issues that affect them, but when Democrats win it's not because urban voters care about the issues, it's about turnout & the mindless casting of ballots.

I'll consider this correct until someone provides an example of a Republican saying they won an election purely on turnout and not on "the issues". I won't be holding my breath. //

245 funky chicken  Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:25:18am

re: #31 Vicious Babushka

The wingnuts are crying that they lost because of "Voter Fraud" because how else can you explain that Romney got 0 votes in neighborhoods inhabited exclusively by the 47%?

Sadly, he probably got lots of votes from those 47%ers who also happen to be redneck white folks.

246 comment  Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:36:09am

We have been at point where "None of the above" would be a better option either Republicans (as they currently exist) or Democrats (as they currently exist) for several decades now.

Can any supporter of either major party explain why it's beneficial to the American people for their party to exert political influence? The government at federal, state, and local levels fails the people repeatedly.

Many "urban" and lower-income voters have suffered for generations from the effects of bad policy, regardless of "good intent." (See [Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Many middle and upper income voters are provided benefits they don't need at the expense of everyone else. Why provide tax incentives for housing? It's OK to own and it's OK to rent also, depending on one's preferences.

If the goal of the major parties is to turn the United States into drone state with growth rates below historic norms where everyone suffers then they are doing a good job.

Demand that your elected leaders do better: Demand that they leave you alone. Demand that they adhere to respecting your personal liberty and uphold the U.S. Constitution.

247 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:38:10am

re: #246 comment

We have been at point where "None of the above" would be a better option either Republicans (as they currently exist) or Democrats (as they currently exist) for several decades now.

[...]

You signed up to post this shit?

248 comment  Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:09:15am

re: #247 Vicious Babushka

You signed up to post this shit?

Let's hear how our current flight plan ends.

Assume that interest rates return to historic norms of 4% - 6% percent (the 10-year U.S. Treasury average is 5.41% over 25 years) and that the Federal debt of about $16 trillion remains outstanding and that we've got somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 trillion of unfunded liabilities.

Just curious.

249 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:24:48am

re: #246 comment

Demand that your elected leaders do better: Demand that they leave you alone. Demand that they adhere to respecting your personal liberty and uphold the U.S. Constitution.

I do demand they do better. It's not by leaving me alone, though, it's by forming a better regulatory structure to stop the side-effects of unrestrained capitalism.

Assume that interest rates return to historic norms of 4% - 6% percent (the 10-year U.S. Treasury average is 5.41% over 25 years) and that the Federal debt of about $16 trillion remains outstanding and that we've got somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 trillion of unfunded liabilities.

You see, it's phrases like 'X of unfunded liabilities' that show you don't actually know what you're talking about.

Unfunded liabilities over what time period? It's a meaningless statement without that metric.

250 comment  Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:30:42am

re: #249 Obdicut

I do demand they do better. It's not by leaving me alone, though, it's by forming a better regulatory structure to stop the side-effects of unrestrained capitalism.

You see, it's phrases like 'X of unfunded liabilities' that show you don't actually know what you're talking about.

Unfunded liabilities over what time period? It's a meaningless statement without that metric.

Should have said "unfunded future liabilities" - money owed to future retirees eligible for Social Security, for example.

We have experienced too many examples of failed regulatory structures, just one example being the S.E.C. which operating continuously during Bernie Madoff's scheme. The most effective restraint of capitalism comes from market forces (make a serious mistake and you go bust), and from avoiding explicit and implicit guarantees by the government (which lead to abuse, and ultimately bailouts). We currently have a huge concentration of assets in the largest banks and this poses a serious risk to the financial system.

251 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:01:17am

re: #250 comment

The most effective restraint of capitalism comes from market forces

We have a true-believer Libertarian here.

I'll refrain from laughing for the moment.


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