Tuesday Night Open
This thread’s open, and so is registration. Would somebody please give this giraffe some directions?
This thread’s open, and so is registration. Would somebody please give this giraffe some directions?
3 | jaunte Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:32:20pm |
Gluklich zu sehen, je suis enchante,
Happy to see you, bleibe, reste, stay.
4 | Stanghazi Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:33:01pm |
OK, LGF. Be kind, not paranoid. We've lost some probably good folks to your inquisition. Its a rough trip in the beginning, says me.
5 | SteveMcG Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:33:55pm |
OK, so let me see if I'm getting this straight. Lady tells her FBI freind that she was getting harrassing emails. FBI buddy wants more than just buddy love, so he launches his own investigation to be a hero. His investigation starts to lag, the FBI man gets impatient and decides to show thee lady what's in store for her once he's solved her problem. In the meantime, FBI buddy's boss starts wondering what the hell FBI buddy is doing, and sits the buddy down and decides to investigate what the fuck the buddy was doing. This investigation is the one that brings down the CIA Director!
Nah, that could never happen.
7 | Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:35:53pm |
The Toys R Us is to your right and south a bit.
8 | SteveMcG Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:36:19pm |
When that giraffe lets go, it's gonna be nasty!
9 | Daniel Ballard Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:36:28pm |
10 | jaunte Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:36:47pm |
Outside it is winter. But in here it's so hot,
Even the artwork has long legs.
11 | Stanghazi Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:37:14pm |
re: #5 SteveMcG
OK, so let me see if I'm getting this straight. Lady tells her FBI freind that she was getting harrassing emails. FBI buddy wants more than just buddy love, so he launches his own investigation to be a hero. His investigation starts to lag, the FBI man gets impatient and decides to show thee lady what's in store for her once he's solved her problem. In the meantime, FBI buddy's boss starts wondering what the hell FBI buddy is doing, and sits the buddy down and decides to investigate what the fuck the buddy was doing. This investigation is the one that brings down the CIA Director!
Nah, that could never happen.
Lady has become the story. Little did she realize.
12 | MMWerth Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:37:34pm |
Hello. Checking in again. I was under the alias TMRiddle a while back... but for some reason I can't log in to that. Something about the account being suspended. :(.
Anyway, still love the site.
13 | Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:40:48pm |
re: #9 Daniel Ballard
Boyfriend. He kicks, too. Watch out!
14 | prairiefire Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:42:26pm |
re: #3 jaunte
Gluklich zu sehen, je suis enchante,
Happy to see you, bleibe, reste, stay.
Can I break out with "Cabaret" yet?
15 | Henchman 26 Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:42:30pm |
re: #13 Dancing along the light of day
Boyfriend. He kicks, too. Watch out!
Just make sure he follows the 'no right turns on red' signs.
16 | darthstar Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:46:52pm |
So what is thanksgiving like for these people when they all get together? Jesus fucking Christ, but this is one fucked up circle of people.
Jill Kelleys sister Natalie is in custody dispute with ex-husband who was in charge openng Iraq 2 US investmnt talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/... via @tpm— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) November 14, 2012
17 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:48:55pm |
re: #4 Stanghazi
OK, LGF. Be kind, not paranoid. We've lost some probably good folks to your inquisition. Its a rough trip in the beginning, says me.
18 | dell*nix Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:50:13pm |
re: #16 darthstar
Watching some of the blather on MSNBC and those idiots are flaming insane and living in an alternate universe when it comes to human nature and interactions.
19 | prairiefire Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:50:39pm |
re: #16 darthstar
I'm telling ya, something ain't right. Kelley has 3 kids, one as young as a year old. Married to an accomplished oncologist. Medical background.
Is this a military equivalent of a groupie?
20 | ProGunLiberal Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:51:29pm |
re: #16 darthstar
This has turned into a 3-ring circus. And, from Cantor deciding to not release anything while the election was going, there is probably about to be some dark, dark things coming out.
21 | dragonath Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:51:41pm |
22 | allegro Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:53:13pm |
re: #19 prairiefire
I'm telling ya, something ain't right. Kelley has 3 kids, one as young as a year old. Married to an accomplished oncologist. Medical background. Is she also a Madam?
Is this a military equivalent of a groupie?
Yeah, that. And I'm trying to figure out how 2 generals, one who becomes the head of the CIA is a part of that social crowd in Tampa. Blowing my image of the military all to hell.
24 | Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:54:28pm |
re: #20 ProGunLiberal
This has turned into a 3-ring circus. And, from Cantor deciding to not release anything while the election was going, there is probably about to be some dark, dark things coming out.
Don't start getting conspiratorial on us. There are others much better at that out there.
25 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:54:29pm |
re: #16 darthstar
So what is thanksgiving like for these people when they all get together? Jesus fucking Christ, but this is one fucked up circle of people.
[Embedded content]
Cronyism.
Welcome to America comrade. //
26 | darthstar Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:54:43pm |
Lawrence doing a rewrite on Rand Paul right now...who is now saying he's for a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants - a position LEFT of the Democrats, and decriminalizing marijuana...he wants to redefine the GOP and "show what conservatives are willing to accept"...holy shit. President Obama winning reelection has just released a free for all in the GOP.
This is going to be fun to watch.
27 | ninja cat Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:55:12pm |
re: #22 allegro
It blows my mind that Tampa is even considered having a social scene.
28 | EPR-radar Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:55:15pm |
re: #21 dragonath
The GOP's very own backstab fable? If they really run with this, it would become the duty of the civilized part of the US to vote accordingly.
29 | prairiefire Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:55:25pm |
re: #22 allegro
Yeah, that. And I'm trying to figure out how 2 generals, one who becomes the head of the CIA is a part of that social crowd in Tampa. Blowing my image of the military all to hell.
The super secret military, to boot! heh
31 | Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:56:36pm |
re: #18 dell*nix
Watching some of the blather on MSNBC and those idiots are flaming insane and living in an alternate universe when it comes to human nature and interactions.
The blatherers or the ones they blather about?
33 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:57:13pm |
And ICYMI
General David Petraeus kissing Jill Kelley. #p2 #tlot #CIA #Pentagon twitter.com/Gus_802/status...— Gus (@Gus_802) November 14, 2012
34 | ProGunLiberal Tue, Nov 13, 2012 7:58:07pm |
re: #24 Achilles Tang
My logic is, if Cantor, the partisan slim he is, didn't decide to leak the information while the election was ongoing, there must have been some pretty heavy crap going on.
To put it simpler, if he didn't leak, then it must be some bad juju.
35 | Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:00:22pm |
re: #33 Gus
And ICYMI
[Embedded content]
This would be a good one for adding one's quote of choice on what he is whispering in her ear, assuming it isn't his tongue.
38 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:02:02pm |
re: #35 Achilles Tang
This would be a good one for adding one's quote of choice on what he is whispering in her ear.
"Caption this."
39 | EPR-radar Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:03:02pm |
re: #34 ProGunLiberal
My logic is, if Cantor, the partisan slim he is, didn't decide to leak the information while the election was ongoing, there must have been some pretty heavy crap going on.
To put it simpler, if he didn't leak, then it must be some bad juju.
Since I also think the House GOP leadership is incapable of taking a dump without first considering the political angle, I agree that Cantor must have has a political reason for not publicizing it.
Probably something more embarrassing than important, give the way this has played out so far...
40 | Eventual Carrion Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:03:34pm |
re: #16 darthstar
So what is thanksgiving like for these people when they all get together? Jesus fucking Christ, but this is one fucked up circle of people.
[Embedded content]
Nepotism, cronyism, incest. Aristocrats.
41 | dell*nix Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:03:41pm |
re: #31 Achilles Tang
Mostly the blatherers. They seem to have no idea that high ranking officers have social duties folded into military duties and how that works. I have limited experience with social duties, but I have had some exposure to those that do.
42 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:03:46pm |
re: #4 Stanghazi
OK, LGF. Be kind, not paranoid. We've lost some probably good folks to your inquisition. Its a rough trip in the beginning, says me.
re: #12 MMWerth
Hello. Checking in again. I was under the alias TMRiddle a while back... but for some reason I can't log in to that. Something about the account being suspended. :(.
Anyway, still love the site.
Are these two posts related? :D
43 | Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:04:01pm |
re: #34 ProGunLiberal
My logic is, if Cantor, the partisan slim he is, didn't decide to leak the information while the election was ongoing, there must have been some pretty heavy crap going on.
To put it simpler, if he didn't leak, then it must be some bad juju.
I'm going to guess that what he knew at the time would only make him look like an ass if he tried to blow it up to presidential level just before the election.
44 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:05:09pm |
re: #34 ProGunLiberal
My logic is, if Cantor, the partisan slim he is, didn't decide to leak the information while the election was ongoing, there must have been some pretty heavy crap going on.
To put it simpler, if he didn't leak, then it must be some bad juju.
I'd say Cantor knew some of what had happened, but not all of it. Given how explosive scandals can prove to be, he likely decided not to set off a explosion when he didn't know who'd be caught in the blast radius.
Moreover, no one would have thanked Eric Cantor for outing a scandal that ended the career of America's greatest general of the recent wars. He might well have found himself despised for having done so, especially within the Army and the CIA.
45 | Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:05:58pm |
re: #41 dell*nix
Mostly the blatherers. They seem to have no idea that high ranking officers have social duties folded into military duties and how that works. I have limited experience with social duties, but I have had some exposure to those that do.
Social duties include screwing around and attempting to use untraceable email?
46 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:06:04pm |
re: #43 Achilles Tang
I'm going to guess that what he knew at the time would only make him look like an ass if he tried to blow it up to presidential level just before the election.
So many possibilities. Cantor could have though, well Romney's gonna lose. If I spill the beans on Petraeus it might take down my own political career. At the same time we also have to keep in mind that Petraeus was considered larger than life. Until now of course.
47 | dell*nix Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:10:29pm |
re: #45 Achilles Tang
Everybody does dumbshit stuff. Especially combat arms types. Got to go now. Will check in tomorrow.
48 | gwangung Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:12:04pm |
re: #44 Dark_Falcon
I'd say Cantor knew some of what had happened, but not all of it. Given how explosive scandals can prove to be, he likely decided not to set off a explosion when he didn't know who'd be caught in the blast radius.
I think this is quite true, particularly if it seemed unclear what the extent of the scandal was. It'd be VERY embarrassing if it turned out that it involved some heretofore unknown person, like, say, a big Republican donor...
Shoot, fire, aim is ALWAYS a bad strategy, with our without firearms...
49 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:12:14pm |
re: #46 Gus
So many possibilities. Cantor could have though, well Romney's gonna lose. If I spill the beans on Petraeus it might take down my own political career. At the same time we also have to keep in mind that Petraeus was considered larger than life. Until now of course.
Just so. Remember that however much Republicans hate Barack Obama, David Petraeus has been very popular with all but the Paulians within the GOP. For one of the GOP to have taken him down over an affair would have gained the party nothing and possibly cost it critical enthusiasm the GOP was counting on at the polls. (We know know that enthusiasm wasn't fully there, but that's not what the party leadership was being told a month ago).
51 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:12:30pm |
re: #47 dell*nix
Everybody does dumbshit stuff. Especially combat arms types. Got to go now. Will check in tomorrow.
Morally it's between David, Holly, and their children.
52 | jaunte Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:13:14pm |
10yr old overhearing husband and I talking about Petraeus: “I’m not worried about anyone getting in my email. It’s mostly YouTubes of cats.”
— Teresa(@TeresaKopec) November 13, 2012
53 | ninja cat Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:13:58pm |
re: #41 dell*nix
Mostly the blatherers. They seem to have no idea that high ranking officers have social duties folded into military duties and how that works. I have limited experience with social duties, but I have had some exposure to those that do.
What social duties involve testifying for Kelley's sister in a custody battle? Doesn't he have some other things to attend to?
54 | EPR-radar Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:14:12pm |
re: #51 Gus
Morally it's between David, Holly, and their children.
True, if there was no improper handling of classified information.
55 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:14:28pm |
re: #49 Dark_Falcon
Just so. Remember that however much Republicans hate Barack Obama, David Petraeus has been very popular with all but the Paulians within the GOP. For one of the GOP to have taken him down over an affair would have gained the party nothing and possibly cost it critical enthusiasm the GOP was counting on at the polls. (We know know that enthusiasm wasn't fully there, but that's not what the party leadership was being told a month ago).
The Paulians? I'll be honest here and I think Petraeus was admired from many different circles. Sure, it was primarily conservatives but there were some liberals. I admit to being somewhat in the latter croup. My view on Petraeus has changed dramatically over this.
56 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:15:54pm |
re: #55 Gus
The Paulians? I'll be honest here and I think Petraeus was admired from many different circles. Sure, it was primarily conservatives but there were some liberals. I admit to being somewhat in the latter croup. My view on Petraeus has changed dramatically over this.
Fix-Ed
57 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:18:44pm |
It's all so gross though. The ghost writer. Confused shirtless FBI agent. The cronyism. The apparent sport fucking behind spouses backs. The contracts. The liaison bullshit. The faux diplomatic credentials via plates on a nice Benz. The military contracts. The security complex. The military industrial complex. Iraq. Afghanistan. Security seminars in Aspen. Lots of leg. MILFs here and there. But other than that I'm fine.
58 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:19:37pm |
re: #55 Gus
The Paulians? I'll be honest here and I think Petraeus was admired from many different circles. Sure, it was primarily conservatives but there were some liberals. I admit to being somewhat in the latter croup. My view on Petraeus has changed dramatically over this.
Ron Paul and his fans don't like the kind of overseas operations Petraeus was in charge of in the Army, nor do they like the CIA. So i don't know who they feel about him, so I left them out.
59 | allegro Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:20:13pm |
re: #57 Gus
It's all so gross though. The ghost writer. Confused shirtless FBI agent. The cronyism. The apparent sport fucking behind spouses backs. The contracts. The liaison bullshit. The faux diplomatic credentials via plates on a nice Benz. The military contracts. The security complex. The military industrial complex. Iraq. Afghanistan. Security seminars in Aspen. Lots of leg. MILFs here and there. But other than that I'm fine.
I think it's time to bring in an expert who has experience with this. Calling Jerry Springer...
60 | Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:20:17pm |
re: #57 Gus
It's lie a bad spy novel....
61 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:21:10pm |
re: #58 Dark_Falcon
Ron Paul and his fans don't like the kind of overseas operations Petraeus was in charge of in the Army, nor do they like the CIA. So i don't know who they feel about him, so I left them out.
Ah. You said "with all BUT." There I go again. Misread.
62 | EPR-radar Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:21:36pm |
re: #57 Gus
It's all so gross though. The ghost writer. Confused shirtless FBI agent. The cronyism. The apparent sport fucking behind spouses backs. The contracts. The liaison bullshit. The faux diplomatic credentials via plates on a nice Benz. The military contracts. The security complex. The military industrial complex. Iraq. Afghanistan. Security seminars in Aspen. Lots of leg. MILFs here and there. But other than that I'm fine.
It's probably not much more than an especially lurid example of power corrupting. I'll be the first to admit there are a bunch of DC beltway types that don't have to play by the same rules as the rest of us, and that this is a problem.
64 | MMWerth Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:23:27pm |
re: #42 Gus
Hah! I think my last post on TMRiddle was around the time of the Winston Churchill bust days.
65 | prairiefire Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:24:24pm |
re: #57 Gus
It's all so gross though. The ghost writer. Confused shirtless FBI agent. The cronyism. The apparent sport fucking behind spouses backs. The contracts. The liaison bullshit. The faux diplomatic credentials via plates on a nice Benz. The military contracts. The security complex. The military industrial complex. Iraq. Afghanistan. Security seminars in Aspen. Lots of leg. MILFs here and there. But other than that I'm fine.
Fuckin' lot of free cash and influence floating around.
66 | Eventual Carrion Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:25:16pm |
re: #63 jaunte
Afghanistan is now the nation's longest war.
Wonder if it was the Soviet Union's longest too
67 | Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:25:25pm |
Petraeus Affair Photos montage
68 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:25:35pm |
69 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:25:49pm |
re: #64 MMWerth
Hah! I think my last post on TMRiddle was around the time of the Winston Churchill bust days.
I think there was an automatic suspension if you didn't comment for 6 months at one point. Not sure though. I looked and nothing stood out. ;)
70 | prairiefire Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:26:50pm |
71 | Varek Raith Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:26:53pm |
73 | Pawn of the Oppressor Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:28:22pm |
re: #21 dragonath
"(N WORD)S!!!! HE WAS ELECTED BY (N WORD)S!!!"
*Jumping up and down, fists clenched*
"N word President, N word President, N WORD PRESIDENT!!!! WHAAAAA!!!"
75 | Stanghazi Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:30:57pm |
re: #69 Gus
I think there was an automatic suspension if you didn't comment for 6 months at one point. Not sure though. I looked and nothing stood out. ;)
BE COOL
76 | prairiefire Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:31:01pm |
77 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:31:55pm |
@ryanjreilly @vicjackshow Bugs Bunny Cuts Florida Loose: youtu.be/xiTM2HQ0g98 via @youtube— Gus (@Gus_802) November 14, 2012
78 | Achilles Tang Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:32:24pm |
re: #47 dell*nix
Everybody does dumbshit stuff. Especially combat arms types. Got to go now. Will check in tomorrow.
Most of us know that when one reaches a certain level in public life then dumbshit stuff is off the table. The point is that most likely they got where they are by not doing dumbshit stuff; so what happened when they reached the stratosphere? Lack of oxygen or Androgel 1.62?
79 | Pawn of the Oppressor Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:32:38pm |
I wonder if we're about to have the lid ripped clean off the General Officer Groupie Scene. I bet there's all kinds of fun open-secret stuff waiting to be Investigative Journalism-ed.
81 | Stanghazi Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:33:04pm |
re: #67 Kronocide
Petraeus Affair Photos montage
This needs to get around. Can you do a page for tweeting?
82 | Stanghazi Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:36:55pm |
re: #76 prairiefire
Hey! I'm in September! 51, don't tell anybody
GF. I remember now. The 20th! (my former love anniversary - I'm trying to be positive with that classification)
I was wondering about the sapphire.
83 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:37:05pm |
re: #60 Dancing along the light of day
It's lie a bad spy novel....
Did some follow-up. Seems your boyfriend ran into trouble on his way home from the city. He came through alright, but the other guy didn't:
84 | jaunte Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:40:36pm |
re: #67 Kronocide
Petraeus Affair Photos montage
"pardon my ignorance but what exactly do the photos accompanying this story have to do with the Petraeus scandal other than acting as a possible metaphor?"
[Link: petraeusaffair.tumblr.com...]
85 | prairiefire Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:40:50pm |
re: #82 Stanghazi
GF. I remember now. The 20th! (my former love anniversary - I'm trying to be positive with that classification)
I was wondering about the sapphire.
Exactly! I am sending new association, positive vibes your way.
I've got a question. When you turn on the water, does it now run blue in Cali? Mine is rusty red!
86 | Stanghazi Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:42:00pm |
re: #83 Dark_Falcon
Did some follow-up. Seems your boyfriend ran into trouble on his way home from the city. He came through alright, but the other guy didn't:
[Embedded content]
damn it
87 | Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:43:31pm |
re: #76 prairiefire
Hey! I'm in September! 51, don't tell anybody
Giggles, me too, except 53. It's only a number, Babe!
88 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:44:30pm |
re: #86 Stanghazi
damn it
The giraffe that gets KOed was actually lucky, since he was able to recover and get up before a lion or hyena came along. Either one of those predators can kill a downed giraffe with a single bite to the neck.
89 | dragonath Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:46:03pm |
90 | Stanghazi Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:47:55pm |
re: #85 prairiefire
Exactly! I am sending new association, positive vibes your way.
I've got a question. When you turn on the water, does it now run blue in Cali? Mine is rusty red!
We finally lost this asshole carpet bagger gop freakadilly Brian Bilbray. I don't know how many democratic candidates I've supported against him to no avail. The moment I move out of his district, it looks like he lost. blue baby. 1800 votes Scott Peters ahead. Bilbray not conceding. WHOOOO
91 | Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:47:57pm |
re: #32 Gus
Oh Christ, Reichert was the go-between for cantor and shirtless FBI guy? Sheesh, Dave, don't you have any serial killers you could be eventually catching, instead of involving my state in this nonsense?
92 | Stanghazi Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:49:52pm |
Can you IMAGINE Cantor, who I see as the ultimate whipping boy, deciding what to DO with this info from the FBI dude?
I'm laughing.
93 | Varek Raith Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:51:20pm |
This game rocks.
[Link: kerbalspaceprogram.com...]
94 | prairiefire Tue, Nov 13, 2012 8:55:22pm |
re: #92 Stanghazi
Can you IMAGINE Cantor, who I see as the ultimate whipping boy, deciding what to DO with this info from the FBI dude?
I'm laughing.
Befuddlement exemplified.
97 | Amory Blaine Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:10:22pm |
re: #21 dragonath
Alberta Darling started out as one of those "moderate" republicans. She is straight up wingnut now. No apologies. Recent district rewrite ensures her stupidity for years to come.
98 | dragonath Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:11:55pm |
re: #97 Amory Blaine
Alberta Darling started out as one of those "moderate" republicans. She is straight up wingnut now. No apologies. Recent district rewrite ensures her stupidity for years to come.
As someone once succinctly put it, voting for any Republican, at any level, is like voting for the Wingnut Farm Team.
99 | William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:12:25pm |
re: #89 dragonath
What Would
JesusJames Do?
Well, now, we can go some real interesting places with this statement. I find the Book Of James, traditionally associated with being written by the Lord's younger brother, it's much more terribly jewish and terribly christian, depending, than their hate filled fantasies of Christianity are. Most would do well to look at a short term stay in hell...
Do you really want to go there? If you do, there's much more fun to be had, but it won't be as easy as the alternative... ;)
101 | dragonath Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:22:05pm |
re: #99 William Barnett-Lewis
Arggh! Not that James!
But, actually this is more interesting...
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
102 | Amory Blaine Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:23:34pm |
More Wisconsin Wingnut Stupidity:
9 lawmakers want to charge U.S. officials who implement Obamacare
As Gov. Scott Walker contemplates whether to create a state health care exchange under Obamacare, he will have to contend in the coming legislative session with nine lawmakers who have said they back a bill to arrest any federal officials who try to implement the health care law.
Eight of the nine Republicans also have gone on record saying they also want to write a law that would see airport screeners charged with sexual assault if they conduct overly invasive pat-downs of passengers going through security.
All nine also told a tea party-aligned group they backed passing so-called "right-to-work" legislation; allowing people to carry guns without having to get permits from the state; allowing people to buy raw, or unpasteurized, milk; and blocking state funding for the federal Real ID law that requires states to develop more secure driver's licenses.
But their stance on the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, could cause the most fireworks in the upcoming session. Walker must decide by Friday whether the state will create a health care exchange under the health care law or leave those duties to President Barack Obama's administration.
Rep. Chris Kapenga (R-Delafield) is one of the nine from Wisconsin who told the Campaign for Liberty he would back legislation to declare Obamacare illegal and allow police to arrest federal officials who take steps to implement it in Wisconsin. He said he believes the health care law is unconstitutional, despite the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling that it passes constitutional muster.
"Just because Obama was re-elected does not mean he's above the constitution," Kapenga said.
103 | Amory Blaine Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:25:54pm |
re: #102 Amory Blaine
These people are out of their minds.
104 | dragonath Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:26:23pm |
re: #102 Amory Blaine
I thought it was pretty amazing that the Republicans gained a few seats in the state house- which was an aberration compared to the rest of the midwest. I don't know how they salted the ground of your state's politics so well.
105 | Amory Blaine Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:28:00pm |
re: #104 dragonath
I thought it was pretty amazing that the Republicans gained a few seats in the state house- which was an aberration compared to the rest of the midwest. I don't know how they salted the ground of your state's politics so well.
The right owns the media in this state lock stock and barrel. I'd also say most people here are racist as well.
106 | Amory Blaine Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:28:36pm |
re: #105 Amory Blaine
The right owns the media in this state lock stock and barrel. I'd also say most people here are racist as well.
Edit: Excluding some media that caters to Madison only.
107 | dragonath Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:33:42pm |
re: #105 Amory Blaine
Sometimes I think our political process resembles Italy. Berluscioni was so blatantly corrupt and contemptuous of the law, yet owned the media and was guaranteed at least 40% of the vote. Things finally caught up to him now, but...
108 | Four More Tears Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:33:43pm |
Newt calls SuperPACs "destructive" on Colbert. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) November 14, 2012
109 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:34:21pm |
re: #102 Amory Blaine
More Wisconsin Wingnut Stupidity:
9 lawmakers want to charge U.S. officials who implement Obamacare
Article VI should put paid to that swiftly.
110 | DisturbedEma Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:37:59pm |
re: #102 Amory Blaine
Robin Vos the new Majority leader. . .
111 | Four More Tears Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:38:04pm |
Wait what?
Rick Scott (!) drops his opposition to ObamaCare. myfoxtampabay.com/story/20089554…
— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) November 14, 2012
112 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:38:43pm |
Cripes. They're still playing that Chinese paranoia ad still on Youtube. The one payed for by "Citizens Against Government Waist" or defeatingthedebt.com. We get the point wingnuts. China is going to kill us! Whatever.
116 | DisturbedEma Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:41:37pm |
re: #109 Dark_Falcon
did you read? Walker delayed this because he thought Romney would win. . .google Milwaukee Journal Sentinel or Wisconsin State Journal. . .
117 | Dancing along the light of day Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:42:26pm |
re: #113 dragonath
Like ANYONE is uglier than Karl Rove or Rush Limbaugh...
just saying!
118 | SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:42:39pm |
If you have a problem...if no one else can help...and if you can find them...maybe you can hire the Big Mexican Women.
119 | DisturbedEma Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:42:54pm |
re: #102 Amory Blaine
Stupidity is ALL UP IN THE HIZZLE. . .here in Dairy Land. . .:(
120 | Four More Tears Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:46:22pm |
RT @craignewman: Party leader Hu Jintao steps down to clear the way for Xi Jinping to take the helm in China. -AP
— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) November 14, 2012
121 | Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:48:07pm |
123 | Four More Tears Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:49:24pm |
re: #121 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society
?
124 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:51:27pm |
re: #120 Four More Tears
[Embedded content]
Did you know the Chinese company that's building their outrageous outrage Predator drone copy also has a contract with Boeing? They built a lot of MD-83 nose sections in the past too.
125 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:54:20pm |
re: #116 DisturbedEma
did you read? Walker delayed this because he thought Romney would win. . .google Milwaukee Journal Sentinel or Wisconsin State Journal. . .
I was actually referring to the Federal Supremacy Clause of the Constitution, which I feel this state law would violate. As for that group of state lawmakers, they're going to get a rude awakening; They may favor 'right to work' legislation, but Scott Walker announced back in May (edited) that he would veto any such bill that reached his desk (he did that because he needed to do so to avoid losing the recall election). Further, Real ID is essential to allow states to implement Voter ID laws, and its implementation is also something Arizona's SB 1070 was predicated on.
So these loons are advocating positions that are by turns unconstitutional, already disavowed by Gov. Walker, and in the last case harmful to laws that Wisconsin has already passed. Talk about an EPIC FAIL!
126 | Four More Tears Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:56:44pm |
Anti-womans suffrage pamphlet from 1910. twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew…
— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) November 14, 2012
129 | Four More Tears Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:57:52pm |
UPDATE: Small plane slams into Jackson, Miss., neighborhood, killing 3 cbsn.ws/SL1RTr
— CBS News (@CBSNews) November 14, 2012
131 | Four More Tears Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:58:17pm |
133 | Amory Blaine Tue, Nov 13, 2012 9:58:49pm |
135 | Four More Tears Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:01:45pm |
re: #132 alpuz
No, that can't be right, Obama's the one trying to divide America...
136 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:02:57pm |
The Trashmen : Surfin' Bird ( 1963 ): youtu.be/ZThquH5t0ow via @youtube— Gus (@Gus_802) November 14, 2012
137 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:03:31pm |
138 | alpuz Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:07:31pm |
140 | gwangung Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:09:56pm |
re: #125 Dark_Falcon
So these loons are advocating positions that are by turns unconstitutional, already disavowed by Gov. Walker, and in the last case harmful to laws that Wisconsin has already passed. Talk about an EPIC FAIL!
Perfect planks for the Republicans in 2013.
141 | Amory Blaine Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:12:36pm |
Walker announced in December 2011 that his administration was stopping work on a Wisconsin exchange until the U.S. Supreme Court had ruled on whether the federal law was constitutional. Facing criticism from conservatives wanting nothing to do with the health law, Walker also ended up turning down $38 million in federal money that could have gone to implementing it in the state.
142 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:15:20pm |
re: #141 Amory Blaine
That was within Walker's rights, to not proceed on a healthcare exchange prior to the Supreme Court's having ruled on the law. You can call that decision wrong, but it is defensible. Trying some sort of "Tenther Nullification" would not be, and Walker is unlikely to do so.
143 | Gus Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:19:07pm |
Why 'Mitt Romney' Lost: youtu.be/EQwrB1vu74c via @youtube— Gus (@Gus_802) November 14, 2012
144 | Amory Blaine Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:20:52pm |
He pissed away 38 million. Just like he pissed away 800 million for light rail. Possibly millions for broken contracts to Talgo. Fiscal conservative.
145 | goddamnedfrank Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:27:04pm |
re: #142 Dark_Falcon
That was within Walker's rights, to not proceed on a healthcare exchange prior to the Supreme Court's having ruled on the law. You can call that decision wrong, but it is defensible. Trying some sort of "Tenther Nullification" would not be, and Walker is unlikely to do so.
The Supremes ruled on ACA months ago. Walker was waiting till the election hoping that Romney would be able to repeal the law was just childish obstinance.
Fresh off his June 5 recall election win, Walker said the state will not move forward with implementing the health care overhaul, even though it was upheld against a Supreme Court challenge. He said Thursday that while he wished the court had overturned the law, he still believes a new president and Republican-controlled Congress will overturn it next year, the Associated Press reported.
146 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:27:44pm |
Taking that 38 million would have committed Walker to supporting a law he did not wish to provide support for. As I said, the decision can be called wrong, but it wasn't indefensible.
147 | bratwurst Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:29:18pm |
Way to bounce back! RT @karlrove: Looking forward to speaking at 100th annual convention of Kansas Livestock Association.— rob delaney (@robdelaney) November 13, 2012
148 | Amory Blaine Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:31:52pm |
re: #102 Amory Blaine
Comment from article:
It Cant Happen Here - Today at 7:38 PM - Report Abuse
No wonder Wisconsin is near last on job creation since the T-Party took power. Imagine you are an international firm seeking investments. You look at Wisconsin. You see a state that broke a contract with a major foreign rail manufacturer, is slashing spending to education, and has politicians deputized as a Barney Fife Hee Haw posse threatening to arrest Federal workers trying to provide healthcare...
What an embarrassment....
149 | gwangung Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:33:14pm |
re: #146 Dark_Falcon
Taking that 38 million would have committed Walker to supporting a law he did not wish to provide support for. As I said, the decision can be called wrong, but it wasn't indefensible.
ummmm....that's not what he's saying.
Though...by law...he IS supposed to support the law, no matter what his wishes. And he pissed away money to do so, making it more expensive in the long run.
I'm not sure being fiscally irresponsible is actually that defensible.
150 | goddamnedfrank Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:33:19pm |
re: #146 Dark_Falcon
Taking that 38 million would have committed Walker to supporting a law he did not wish to provide support for. As I said, the decision can be called wrong, but it wasn't indefensible.
Yes, it was completely indefensible. Even after the law was upheld Walker continued to live in a magical fantasy world where Romney was going to become President, the Republicans control the Senate and the law he didn't like repealed. Leadership isn't sticking your head in the sand and praying for the future to do away with an unwelcome current reality.
151 | engineer cat Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:41:42pm |
re: #150 goddamnedfrank
Yes, it was completely indefensible. Even after the law was upheld Walker continued to live in a magical fantasy world where Romney was going to become President, the Republicans control the Senate and the law he didn't like repealed. Leadership isn't sticking your head in the sand and praying for the future to do away with an unwelcome current reality.
new gop mascot: ostrich
152 | Targetpractice Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:43:34pm |
Walker created a self-fulfilling prophecy where the cost of implementing the ACA is increased because of his foolishness, allowing him to convince the rubes that the law is costing more than Democrats "promised" it would.
So here we are, little more than a year to go before the law is supposed to come into effect, and Republicans are still engaging in this fantasy where they will magically undo Obamacare and bring "market-based reforms" to the people.
153 | goddamnedfrank Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:45:54pm |
The Petraeus scandal explained with the help of Taiwanese CGI.
155 | Targetpractice Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:54:04pm |
Latest Benghazi craziness: Obama secretly contravened own EO by ordering CIA to start taking terrorists prisoner again, and the reason the CIA annex was attacked was because the militia was trying to free a couple of fellow fighters taken prisoner by the CIA. And they know this because Petraeus' crazy bimbo blurted it out during a speech.
156 | Ben G. Hazi Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:55:59pm |
re: #155 Targetpractice
Latest Benghazi craziness: Obama secretly contravened own EO by ordering CIA to start taking terrorists prisoner again, and the reason the CIA annex was attacked was because the militia was trying to free a couple of fellow fighters taken prisoner by the CIA. And they know this because Petraeus' crazy bimbo blurted it out during a speech.
Nutjobs who are making the case for forced psychiatric medication.
///
157 | engineer cat Tue, Nov 13, 2012 10:59:36pm |
re: #153 goddamnedfrank
The Petraeus scandal explained with the help of Taiwanese CGI.
[Embedded content]
i vote
[x] yes! i want to have all my news delivered as salacious taiwanese animations!
where can i get this channel on the cable???
158 | Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:31:49pm |
re: #21 dragonath
"We don’t have fraud and abuse in our elections.’ But why, why can’t we have voter ID when the majority of our people in Wisconsin wanted it, we passed it, the governor signed it? Why should one judge in Dane County be able to hold it up?”"
So why do you need it except out of political expediency, and why should a judge let you get away with that?
159 | Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Nov 13, 2012 11:37:51pm |
re: #109 Dark_Falcon
Article VI should put paid to that swiftly.
Just because it's in the Constitution does not mean that it is Constitutional!
/
160 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:03:59am |
For your enjoyment:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
162 | goddamnedfrank Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:06:03am |
re: #160 dragonath
For your enjoyment:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Also here.
Stilgar, we have douchesign.
163 | Kragar Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:30:05am |
164 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:32:39am |
165 | Kragar Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:35:03am |
re: #164 Sol Berdinowitz
wooly mammoth - hunted to extinction by white men
Well, so was the Dodo, plus the name, Dodo.
166 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:37:01am |
re: #165 Kragar
Well, so was the Dodo, plus the name, Dodo.
I thought the dodo was wiped out by dogs & rats (nonetheless brought by white men)
167 | Kragar Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:40:34am |
re: #166 Sol Berdinowitz
I thought the dodo was wiped out by dogs & rats (nonetheless brought by white men)
No fear of humans + flightless = easy picking for sailors looking to restock a ship's larder
Though there were numerous other factors, so you can't just say one reason.
168 | freetoken Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:48:47am |
re: #143 Gus
I'm surprised he got as many votes as he did. Romney will surpass McCain's vote totals, which means he's actually growing the GOP voter turnout. Strange.
171 | researchok Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:59:55am |
re: #169 freetoken
Different- piece I have to 'work at' to appreciate.
I looked up Pápainé for context.
Pretty arcane/obscure stuff!
172 | freetoken Wed, Nov 14, 2012 1:02:22am |
Ok, well, here's something a bit more traditional - Bach:
173 | Kragar Wed, Nov 14, 2012 1:26:22am |
re: #172 freetoken
Ok, well, here's something a bit more traditional - Bach:
[Embedded content]
Bach?
174 | researchok Wed, Nov 14, 2012 1:27:46am |
re: #172 freetoken
musica interruptus Had to reboot.
Great Bach piece.
As for the Ligeti, I liked it. I do like broadening my horizons.
His wiki bio cites Le Grand Macabre. Are you familiar with that?
Any selections that stand out?
176 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Wed, Nov 14, 2012 1:33:57am |
re: #158 Sol Berdinowitz
"We don’t have fraud and abuse in our elections.’ But why, why can’t we have voter ID when the majority of our people in Wisconsin wanted it, we passed it, the governor signed it? Why should one judge in Dane County be able to hold it up?”"
So why do you need it except out of political expediency, and why should a judge let you get away with that?
Please note that many of these laws were not struck from the law, merely postponed by the courts. In those cases they will be allowed to go into effect now that this election cycle is over. The courts questioned the motivation behind passing such laws so close to a national election with inadequate evidence of compelling need for them. In the 2014 and 2016 elections there will be many more states requiring state issued ID to vote.
177 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 1:45:46am |
re: #176 watching you tiny alien kittens are
Yunno, at the time the Constitution was framed, there was no such thing as a photo ID, and only diplomats carried passports.
We need a goddam national ID card, issued free of charge to all citizens, which would be required for national elections (presidential and congressional). With that in place, the states would be compelled to accept it for local elections, too.
178 | freetoken Wed, Nov 14, 2012 2:15:25am |
re: #177 Sol Berdinowitz
Implant under the skin. I've proposed it here before, but for some reason people think it won't work.
179 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 2:18:56am |
re: #178 freetoken
Implant under the skin. I've proposed it here before, but for some reason people think it won't work.
Would be the easiest, we do it for pets and livestock...
But seriously, a national ID card - free of charge - for every eligible voting citizen would set a national standard and save costs over the long term.
180 | freetoken Wed, Nov 14, 2012 2:20:08am |
re: #174 researchok
Any selections that stand out?
I think the most well known Ligeti piece was the one used in 2001 A Space Odyssey, known as "Lux Aeterna". I've linked it here before, along with his "Requiem" also used in said movie.
182 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 2:25:01am |
re: #181 freetoken
I am serious.
I agree it would be the best solution, but it is politically totally infeasible.
I am serious about the national ID card, it would be difficult to sell, but it would end all discussion of voter ID issues and ease the problem of immigration issues: there should be one card for all citizens and another for all legal residents, which would be useful in managing illegal immigration.
183 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 2:50:37am |
From the BBC US high security bio lab faces uncertain future
Kansas and science. Two things that have drifted apart lately...
184 | goddamnedfrank Wed, Nov 14, 2012 2:53:49am |
Good.
United Parcel Service has joined Intel in telling the Boy Scouts of America that it will no longer be eligible for corporate donations unless it ends its anti-gay policies. UPS gives $150,000 a year to the Scouts.
185 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:13:21am |
[Link: gawker.com...]
According to the New York Daily News, Cablevision is "sticking with its longstanding policy that requires customers to call and specifically detail when they lost service in order to qualify for a refund." In other words, while nearly 60,000 New Yorkers are still living without electricity, and thus nothing to power their cellphones or landlines, Cablevision expects everyone to call them and tell them the exact length of their cable outage, or else get charged.
By contrast, Time Warner Cable has agreed to automatically provide credits to its customers in the areas where the power, internet, and cable were knocked out by the storm. Says John Quibley, Time Warner's regional vice president of operations in New York, "By posting credits automatically to customers' accounts in the hardest hit parts of our service area, we hope these affected residents and businesses will have one less call to make as they recover from the storm."
186 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:18:14am |
re: #184 goddamnedfrank
Good.
Boy Scouts are free to continue to discriminate against gays. Other are free to end their association with them.
That is what freedom of association is about.
188 | sagehen Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:25:40am |
re: #179 Sol Berdinowitz
Would be the easiest, we do it for pets and livestock...
But seriously, a national ID card - free of charge - for every eligible voting citizen would set a national standard and save costs over the long term.
I can remember a time when conservatives took great pride in the US being a place that *didn't* have a national ID card. It was a matter of FREEDOM!!!!!11! to not have to have ID. Anyone who suggested issuing such cards was accused of piloting black helicopters or wanting to tattoo us all with the mark of the beast or government surveillance or pinko commies out to steal their bodily fluids...
189 | King of the Douche, now you may bow Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:27:34am |
Lakeland Electric lineman breaks jaw, cheek bone in attack while restoring power in New York
LAKELAND, Fla. - A bay area electrical lineman who got attacked while helping restore power in the storm-ravaged area of New York will likely need surgery to repair his face.
[Link: www.abcactionnews.com...]
Well, someone is running for "douche of the year".
190 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:29:57am |
re: #188 sagehen
I can remember a time when conservatives took great pride in the US being a place that *didn't* have a national ID card. It was a matter of FREEDOM!!!!!11! to not have to have ID. Anyone who suggested issuing such cards was accused of piloting black helicopters or wanting to tattoo us all with the mark of the beast or government surveillance or pinko commies out to steal their bodily fluids...
The extreme lefties would be just as opposed to it for similar grounds: creeping Big Brotherhood...
ID cards are an accepted way of life in Europe, they go back to the time after WWII when there were millions of homeless and displaced persons who had to be assigned an address and a legal identity so they could be resettled and helped.
191 | King of the Douche, now you may bow Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:42:25am |
Jill Kelley (Khawam). The Lebanese Mata Hari?
Conspiracy!!!!
192 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:47:02am |
re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar
Jill Kelley (Khawam). The Lebanese Mata Hari?
Conspiracy!!!!
Ka-WHAM!!!
193 | King of the Douche, now you may bow Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:51:09am |
re: #192 Sol Berdinowitz
Ka-WHAM!!!
The right has their conspiracy theories and the left is jumping on board. Bipartisanship!!!!
/
194 | wheat-dogghazi Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:52:50am |
Charles -- I got a question for you. When you blocked those addresses from China, was the block beginning with 111.22.xxx.xxx among them? That's allocated to China Mobile's WiFi service, which means I can't access LGF using my China Mobile WiFi account anywhere.
It's no big deal, as I can still get to LGF with my university account. But if there's a way around it, I'd appreciate it.
195 | King of the Douche, now you may bow Wed, Nov 14, 2012 3:57:08am |
Pat Robertson On General Petraeus, Paula Broadwell Affair: 'He's A Man'
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
So, Pat, I am now allowed to forget about morals? Wait, I need to be in a desert first....
198 | King of the Douche, now you may bow Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:06:02am |
Wanna know what sucks? I could sit here and make stoopid jokes all morning long. But I gotta worky. See y'all tonight.:)
200 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:07:36am |
When I saw that segment of Paula Broadwell on the Jon Stewart Show, my first thought was she could totally arm-wrestle Michelle Obama.
201 | Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:10:00am |
re: #200 Vicious Babushka
When I saw that segment of Paula Broadwell on the Jon Stewart Show, my first thought was she could totally arm-wrestle Michelle Obama.
I remarked to my wife "She looks like a really expensive dominatrix".
202 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:14:22am |
re: #201 Decatur Deb
I remarked to my wife "She looks like a really expensive dominatrix".
She must spend hours and hours with Mr. Shake-Weight.
203 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:19:04am |
I could totally see Petraeus into ball gags and latex suits...
204 | Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:29:57am |
re: #203 Flounder
I could totally see Petraeus into ball gags and latex suits...
The polite term is 'Mission-Oriented Protective Posture'.
205 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 4:58:17am |
This is not how you do it.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
NYS chose the highest bidder for DMV photos, black and white photos. This article is rather vague, maybe there will be more info forthcoming.
206 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:02:34am |
Some more info if interested
The driver's license contract is rebid under the federal "Real ID" measure from the Department of Homeland Security to make licenses more secure and more states are expected to face similar contract decisions.
Read more: [Link: www.timesunion.com...]
207 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:05:52am |
re: #205 Flounder
The Post blows. Here's a slightly better, if still slanted, WSJ article.
[Link: online.wsj.com...]
Basically, the firms that lost had bids that were for things that didn't match specifications. The question is whether those specifications were actually communicated to the various companies.
208 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:08:50am |
Thankyou Obdicut. NYSDOT is currently implenting something similar, called "best value bids" Which take out the responsible lowest bidder clause and leaves it open to politics.
209 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:11:42am |
re: #208 Flounder
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by 'take out the responsible lowest bidder clause'.
Edit: or rather, why do you think NYDOT is doing that, and you understand this is not a story about taking out that clause, right?
210 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:22:19am |
211 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:23:16am |
re: #208 Flounder
Thankyou Obdicut. NYSDOT is currently implenting something similar, called "best value bids" Which take out the responsible lowest bidder clause and leaves it open to politics.
Um, no it doesn't. What 'best value' does is examine the equipment or services being purchased more closely. Some of the Hurricane Sandy repair projects are ripe for 'low-balling', where contractors give a too-low bid to win the contract, and then claim large cost overruns due to "unforeseen difficulties". Best Value means, in part, looking at bids to see if they are realistic and in line with what the job should cost. It's an anti-lowballing tactic.
212 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:27:57am |
Okay Obdicut, it is a rather long story but I will try to keep it short.
Old NYSDOT bidding rules:
State puts together plans and proposals for a specific job, with measurable "items" paying the contractor for work. This job gets advertised, contractors submit bids, and the lowest responsible bidder is awarded the job (as calculated by each item).
"New" NYSDOT rules.
State wants a job built, contractor (actually a consultant) designs, builds and provides quality assurance for job. Award is based on "best value" which doesn't have anything to do with the price. Certain portions of the job will be weighed more than other portions of the job. Job is payed on a lump-sum basis, not individual items.
213 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:32:18am |
Yes Dark you are correct, however, under emergency work, the work can be accomplished under force account, which is time + materials + 10 percent.
Lowballing competitive bidding = losing your shirt.
214 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:36:03am |
re: #212 Flounder
No, dude, I know how the contracts work. I'm asking you to support the idea that 'best value' negates 'lowest responsible bid'. It's more an improved version of it, where 'responsible' is given a more thorough analysis.
215 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:38:13am |
216 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:42:03am |
re: #213 Flounder
Yes Dark you are correct, however, under emergency work, the work can be accomplished under force account, which is time + materials + 10 percent.
Lowballing competitive bidding = losing your shirt.
Not if they have friends on the city council willing to shell out more money, nor is trying to force a large contractor to work easy (you have to go to court and they'll have good lawyers). And even if you can and do force them to finish at the initial price, it will take time and generate ill will. Better to bid the job out correctly the first time. That's what 'best value bidding' is about: Making sure that the accepted bid is actually going to deliver the needed value.
217 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:42:51am |
re: #216 Dark_Falcon
The Big Dig is one of the best examples of how 'best value' could have produced a much better result.
218 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:49:33am |
re: #217 Obdicut
The Big Dig is one of the best examples of how 'best value' could have produced a much better result.
219 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 5:52:48am |
Obdicut, Dark, I dont know if I will be able to answer your questions. How do you measure value?
I know how to measure $
Responsible low bidder means just that, add everything up, and that is the cheapest you can build the job.
220 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:00:27am |
re: #219 Flounder
Obdicut, Dark, I dont know if I will be able to answer your questions. How do you measure value?
I know how to measure $
Responsible low bidder means just that, add everything up, and that is the cheapest you can build the job.
You measure value by looking at the equipment and resources a firm has allocated to the job. Then you compare those against your own internal estimates of what the job will require. That's the first step in detecting low-balling.
A second thing, and one that assumed relevance for good and bad in Boston's Big Dig is that a contractor may have a new way to build something the government hadn't really known about. Such innovation can promise real savings if it works, or a real boondoggle if it fails. The government needs to have people on staff who can review the new technique to determine its feasibility. If rebuilding a structure or tunnel in a new way will greatly increase its capabilities, it might be worth taking a higher bid in order to get those increased capabilities, since they will provide a better value (hence 'best value').
221 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:00:51am |
re: #219 Flounder
Obdicut, Dark, I dont know if I will be able to answer your questions. How do you measure value?
I know how to measure $
Responsible low bidder means just that, add everything up, and that is the cheapest you can build the job.
You don't really seem to be reading what either of us are saying. The new system is basically the old responsbile low bidder with a bigger emphasis on 'responsible', since there's a lot of times where the bidder's underbid either to put the city/state in a poke by getting mostly through the work but then demanding more funding, or simply cutting corners as happened a lot in the Big Dig.
If you like the 'responsible' part of the responsible lowest bidder, why don't you approve of a more thorough evaluation of the bidder's ability to deliver what they're saying they can at the price they're claiming they can?
222 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:15:07am |
I think I will just have to invite everyone over for dinner so we can discuss this further (I will cook, I won't let my wife poison you all). Remember your 7 P's
Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
223 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:19:21am |
re: #222 Flounder
I'm sorry, I don't get what there is to discuss. Again:
If you like the 'responsible' part of the responsible lowest bidder, why don't you approve of a more thorough evaluation of the bidder's ability to deliver what they're saying they can at the price they're claiming they can?
224 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:19:40am |
Aw come on, SteelPH, upding me! You know you want to! :)
225 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:21:53am |
Oh, and this part isn't true:
Award is based on "best value" which doesn't have anything to do with the price.
Do you really think it doesn't have anything to do with the price? How would that make any sense?
226 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:24:17am |
Obdicut, we are at two very different levels of understanding, and is far to complex for me to get into.
227 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:27:54am |
re: #226 Flounder
Obdicut, we are at two very different levels of understanding, and is far to complex for me to get into.
Then just understand this: Contractors have figured out ways to try to milk local ans state governments and the federal government to make more money than they could honestly make. "Best Value Bidding" is a way to reduce the effectiveness of such tactics. It aims to save the contracting agency money, and sometimes encourage innovation.
228 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:27:58am |
Here is some info if you have the time.
[Link: www.dot.ny.gov...]
229 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:28:28am |
re: #226 Flounder
Obdicut, we are at two very different levels of understanding, and is far to complex for me to get into.
Bullshit. You're making claims and you can't back them up. The claim that how much it costs isn't even a factor is just an obviously, blatantly untrue thing.
Here is the law:
"Best value" means the basis for awarding contracts for services to the offerer which optimizes quality, cost and efficiency, among responsive and responsible offerers. Such basis shall reflect, wherever possible, objective and quantifiable analysis.
And later on:
Selection and award shall be a written determination in the
procurement record made by the commissioner or a state agency in a
manner consistent with the provisions of the solicitation. In the event
two offers are found to be substantially equivalent, price shall be the
basis for determining the award recipient or, when price and other
factors are found to be substantially equivalent, the determination of
the commissioner or agency head to award a contract to one or more of such bidders shall be final. The basis for determining the award shall
be documented in the procurement record.
230 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:32:48am |
Bidding requests
[Link: www.dot.ny.gov...]
Note the bond amounts, that is what the contractor must post in order to due the work. If contractor goes under, the bonding company must finish the work.
232 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:34:26am |
re: #231 Flounder
Why did you claim cost wasn't a factor when it was?
Did you just not know that, and, if so, why are you positing yourself as an authority on this subject?
233 | Flounder Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:35:55am |
I'm not trying to be an asshole Obdicut, I just don't have the time to lay out tall the info.
235 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:38:47am |
re: #230 Flounder
Bidding requests
[Link: www.dot.ny.gov...]
Note the bond amounts, that is what the contractor must post in order to due the work. If contractor goes under, the bonding company must finish the work.
Yes, but that costs time and lost time equals lost money (in the form of lost revenues from out-of-commission infrastructure). Again, better to get the bid right the first time.
SHSL, you're right that there are risks in best value, places where politics can interfere. But politics was already interfering under the old system. This is a case of a risk that just has to be taken.
236 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:40:23am |
re: #233 Flounder
I'm not trying to be an asshole Obdicut, I just don't have the time to lay out tall the info.
Then lay out your case, fully if not comprehensively. Don't just cite documents; Tell us clearly why you think "Best Value Bidding" is a bad idea.
237 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:45:50am |
re: #233 Flounder
I'm not trying to be an asshole Obdicut, I just don't have the time to lay out tall the info.
You have time to answer why you thought cost wasn't a factor when it is, don't you?
Or are you still trying to claim that, even after I provided the law for you?
240 | Locker Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:56:24am |
With the assumption that we did get some new registrations I'd like to say "Welcome to you all and it's nice to have you!".... but I won't.
241 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 6:56:52am |
re: #239 Gus
Given the river of lies posted by that guy, I'd say he's enlarged his status from douche nozzle to full-on douche canoe.
242 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:00:24am |
BREAKING: David Petraeus will appear on Capitol Hill before the Senate Intelligence Committee tomorrow.— NBC News (@NBCNews) November 14, 2012
243 | Henchman Ghazi-808 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:00:41am |
re: #241 Dark_Falcon
Given the river of lies posted by that guy, I'd say he's enlarged his status from douche nozzle to full-on douche canoe.
@anncoulter It more aptly explains your career. #yourea****— Chuck Norris' Vagina (@ChucksVagina) November 13, 2012
245 | Mich-again Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:15:27am |
246 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:19:28am |
re: #243 Kronocide
[Embedded content]
That's Ann Coulter, being the insulting rotter we all know and hate.
She is followed by someone who would have had a good zinger, but whose hashtag "#yourea****" turned his post into a nasty little bit of misogyny.
Call the reply "the outrigger to Ann Coulter's douche canoe".
247 | wheat-dogghazi Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:20:08am |
re: #242 Gus
I'll bet he'll have some 'splainin' to do ...
248 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:22:12am |
re: #247 wheat-dogghazi
I'll bet he'll have some 'splainin' to do ...
Can't wait. What America needs is yet another senate/congressional hearing. There aren't enough and they're typically very productive. //
249 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:22:50am |
re: #247 wheat-dogghazi
I'll bet he'll have some 'splainin' to do ...
Yes, but will Congress ask relevant questions or just DERP it up?
251 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:26:27am |
re: #250 wheat-dogghazi
Posturing and hot air, mostly
Well, of course. But what the social conservatives really want to do is get Paula Broadwell (and perhaps Jill Kelley) in front of them. Nothing like an old-time slut-shaming to fire up the evangelicals, you know.
/I'm speaking in jest, but I'm not really kidding.
252 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:27:46am |
re: #251 Dark_Falcon
Well, of course. But what the social conservatives really want to do is get Paula Broadwell (and perhaps Jill Kelley) in front of them. Nothing like an old-time slut-shaming to fire up the evangelicals, you know.
/I'm speaking in jest, but I'm not really kidding.
Ack. I really can't see them bringing up this whole affair thing. If they do then they'll really be jumping the shark. I doubt it will come up unless someone has something relevant.
253 | wheat-dogghazi Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:30:02am |
If CIA or military ops were compromised, then the committee can poke into it. If all this is just a bunch of horny people swapping partners, then Congress needs to STFU.
254 | Henchman Ghazi-808 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:30:15am |
I can see it now:
2012 Touching Under The Table Act
255 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:31:27am |
re: #252 Gus
Ack. I really can't see them bringing up this whole affair thing. If they do then they'll really be jumping the shark. I doubt it will come up unless someone has something relevant.
Like I said, it was in jest. I was just pointing out how some evangelicals try to bring back matters of adultery to "The man was irresistibly tempted.", which is short for "The Devil made him do it, and he did so by acting through women."
256 | wheat-dogghazi Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:32:13am |
re: #255 Dark_Falcon
Samson and Delilah, for example.
257 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:34:33am |
For anyone who forgot, here's a Louisiana Senator interrogating teachers on producing humans from E. Coli.... fb.me/2poJgcK7Z— Zack Kopplin (@RepealtheLSEA) November 14, 2012
258 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:34:34am |
By Mackubin Thomas Owens
General David Petraeus is arguably the most consequential and renowned American military leader since World War II. His resignation because of an extramarital affair with his biographer, Paula Broadwell, has shocked Americans. L’affaire Petraeus has two parts that must be separated: his sexual relationship with Broadwell itself, and the link between the timing of the announcement of his resignation and the Benghazi attacks on September 11.
Here I will focus on the former. What led a successful general at the height of his power and influence to have an affair that undid all he had accomplished?
In 1993, Dean Ludwig and Clinton Longnecker co-authored an article for The Journal of Business Ethics titled “The Bathsheba Syndrome: The Ethical Failure of Successful Leaders.” The name of their piece comes, of course, from the biblical story of King David and Bathsheba, recounted in the Second Book of Samuel. David seduces Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite, and impregnates her. He later orders that Uriah be placed in the front ranks of the fighting, where Uriah is killed. Upon word of his death, David marries Bathsheba. God is displeased and sends the prophet Nathan to rebuke the king, who repents but is nonetheless punished by the death of his and Bathsheba’s child, and by the later civil war arising from the insurrection Absalom (David’s beloved third son) leads against Solomon (the second son of David and Bathsheba).
Ludwig and Longnecker, as well as others writing subsequently, have argued that the psychological impact of gaining power, despite many positive effects, also may unleash a dark side: the belief that one is too big to fail, that the normal rules do not apply. Thus even a leader of high moral character may succumb to the temptations that accompany the acquisition of power. The findings of Ludwig and Longnecker regarding the moral corruption of the powerful go a long way toward explaining Petraeus’s behavior.
For one, they argue that moral principles are more often abandoned in the wake of success than as a result of competitive pressure. Success tends to inflate a leader’s belief that he has a special personal ability to manipulate or control outcomes, an issue that particularly seems to have applied to Petraeus.
259 | wheat-dogghazi Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:35:59am |
re: #258 Dark_Falcon
Shorter version: power corrupts.
260 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:38:33am |
re: #259 wheat-dogghazi
Shorter version: power corrupts.
Sometimes people need to hear the long version. They need to know why and how it corrupts.
261 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:40:23am |
262 | Mich-again Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:40:57am |
Warning: Do not play any drinking games during the Petraeus hearings in which any amount of alcohol must be consumed whenever the word BENGHAZI is mentioned. That is all.
263 | wheat-dogghazi Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:42:16am |
re: #260 Dark_Falcon
True enough. But as weird as this whole affair is, I just can't worked up about it. Petraeus is fired, and the rest of this sorry cast of characters will all have to deal with their own personal consequences. If our operations were not compromised, and Jill Kelley is not a spy, then ho-hum.
264 | Mich-again Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:42:27am |
re: #261 NJDhockeyfan
Wassup man, where you been?
I'm in Port Elizabeth South Africa, heading out to dinner in a few with the plant manager here. Only here for a couple more days..
265 | wheat-dogghazi Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:42:56am |
re: #264 Mich-again
Do any sightseeing?
266 | Henchman Ghazi-808 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:45:41am |
Remember when shame was good? Things were much better then. We need to get back to the fundamentals of our Founding Fathers.
Gov. Rick Perry sensibly supports new law to require drug tests for welfare recipients. shar.es/GdM4Z— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) November 14, 2012
267 | wheat-dogghazi Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:47:53am |
re: #266 Kronocide
I am sure BF would love to bring back putting people in the stocks in the town square, public hangings, and stonings, too.
Sorry, all. Almost midnight here in the Middle Kingdom. Gotta get some shut-eye.
268 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:48:05am |
re: #266 Kronocide
Remember when shame was good? Things were much better then. We need to get back to the fundamentals of our Founding Fathers.
[Embedded content]
For example: Bryan Fischer should be ashamed of himself for writing that tweet.
269 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:48:06am |
re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar
Jill Kelley (Khawam). The Lebanese Mata Hari?
Conspiracy!!!!
LOL! Are Alex Jones drones posting at DKos now?
270 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:49:32am |
re: #268 Dark_Falcon
For example: Bryan Fischer should be ashamed of himself for writing that tweet.
LOL
General Petraeus is now the most dangerous man in America since has no reason not to tell the truth on Friday.— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) November 14, 2012
271 | Mich-again Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:50:32am |
272 | Henchman Ghazi-808 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:50:59am |
What did they know? When did they know it? How much pepper is in it?
Chorizo.
273 | wheat-dogghazi Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:51:03am |
re: #271 Mich-again
Sweet! I miss South Africa.
274 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:52:38am |
re: #269 NJDhockeyfan
LOL! Are Alex Jones drones posting at DKos now?
The Kos always had its conspiracists, but their numbers were cut down in the last few years as part of an overall effort to improve the site's quality and get rid of destructive lunatics. But the less rabid conspiracists didn't get banned, they just stopped posting conspiracy theories much. But this kind of scandal will bring such people out of the woodwork, as what they peddle meets a sick desire for tawdry and salacious commentary.
275 | Henchman Ghazi-808 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:53:09am |
re: #271 Mich-again
Nice conduit porn on your webpage.
276 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:53:43am |
Looks like the Israelis have had enough and are opening a can of whoopass on their terrorist neighbors...
The IDF has begun a widespread campaign on terror sites & operatives in the #Gaza Strip, chief among them #Hamas & Islamic Jihad targets.— IDF (@IDFSpokesperson) November 14, 2012
The first target, hit minutes ago, was Ahmed Al-Jabari, head of the #Hamas military wing: idfblog.com/2012/11/14/idf...— IDF (@IDFSpokesperson) November 14, 2012
There are 2 main goals of this IDF operation: to protect Israeli civilians and to cripple the terrorist infrastructure in the #Gaza Strip.— IDF (@IDFSpokesperson) November 14, 2012
This IDF operation against terrorist orgs in #Gaza comes after a month of frequent rocket attacks against #Israel. idfblog.com/facts-figures/...— IDF (@IDFSpokesperson) November 14, 2012
The IDF has seriously damaged Hamas' long-range missile capabilities (40 km/25 mi range) & underground weapons storage facilities.— IDF (@IDFSpokesperson) November 14, 2012
The IDF has embarked on Operation Pillar of Defense.— IDF (@IDFSpokesperson) November 14, 2012
All options are on the table. If necessary, the IDF is ready to initiate a ground operation in Gaza.— IDF (@IDFSpokesperson) November 14, 2012
277 | Mich-again Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:54:56am |
re: #275 Kronocide
Nice conduit porn on your webpage.
Hey those are stainless steel fluid delivery lines, not conduits. Hello!
278 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:55:00am |
re: #270 Vicious Babushka
LOL
@bryanjfischer Apparently, you have not heard that lying to Congress is considered perjury, and is punished fairly severely.
— Kurt Akemann (@Dark_Falcon7) November 14, 2012
279 | Henchman Ghazi-808 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:55:59am |
re: #277 Mich-again
Hey those are stainless steel fluid delivery lines, not conduits. Hello!
I just noticed the yellow valves, I thought they were stickers at first. Nice work though.
280 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:56:03am |
re: #274 Dark_Falcon
The Kos always had its conspiracists, but their numbers were cut down in the last few years as part of an overall effort to improve the site's quality and get rid of destructive lunatics. But the less rabid conspiracists didn't get banned, they just stopped posting conspiracy theories much. But this kind of scandal will bring such people out of the woodwork, as what they peddle meets a sick desire for tawdry and salacious commentary.
The poll says a lot about how many conspiracy kooks still remain there.
POLL
What role did Jill Kelley have in the Petraus affair?Innocent victim 2% 20 votes
Co-adulterer 13% 130 votes
Spy 60% 594 votes
None 2% 25 votes
Fruitcake 21% 215 votes| 986 votes | Vote
281 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 7:58:19am |
re: #276 NJDhockeyfan
The traffic has clogged the IDF's server. I can't get to their blog site.
282 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:01:22am |
CNN has an article up about Israel's smackdown on Hamas et al.:
An Israeli air strike Wednesday killed the head of Hamas' military wing, the first strike in what the Israeli military called a broader operation against terrorist targets.
The attack on a vehicle carrying Ahmed al-Ja'abari in Gaza was part of "an extensive program of direct offensive strikes against Hamas, Islamic Jihad" and other terrorist targets approved by Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz, the Israeli Defense Forces chief of staff, an IDF statement said.
Described by the IDF as a "surgical operation," the strike came after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned this week of pending retaliation by Israel for increased rocket attacks from Gaza.
Taher al-Nunu, a spokesman for the Hamas-led government in Gaza, confirmed that al-Ja'abari died in an Israeli airstrike. Medical sources told CNN that al-Ja'abari's bodyguard also was killed in the attack.
According to a CNN reporter, a total of eight Israeli strikes have occurred in Gaza Wednesday. No details were immediately available on the other strikes.
Angry crowds gathered at the heavily damaged vehicle that contained al-Ja'abari and his bodyguard, and analysts warned that the Israeli attacks could lead to an escalation in the ongoing conflict.
Car swarm pics?
283 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:01:33am |
re: #281 Dark_Falcon
The traffic has clogged the IDF's server. I can't get to their blog site.
IDF launches Gaza op; kills top Hamas commander
Israel killed the military commander of Hamas in an airstrike on the Gaza Strip Wednesday, bringing the two sides to the brink of a possible new war.
The attack came despite signs that Egypt had managed to broker a truce between Israel and Palestinian militants after a five day surge of violence which saw more than 100 missiles fired out of Gaza and repeated Israeli strikes on the enclave.
Islamist Hamas said Ahmed Al-Jabari, who ran the organization's armed wing, the Izz al-Dinn Al-Qassam Brigades, died along with a passenger after their car was targeted by an Israeli missile."The occupation has opened the gates of hell on itself," Hamas' armed wing said following the targeted killing of its commander.
Top Hamas terrorist Ismail al-Ashkar said, "The resistance's options are now open and they include suicide attacks and quality attacks in Israel cities."
IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz has announced the launching of "Operation Cloud Pillar" against Gaza terrorists.
284 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:01:58am |
re: #282 Dark_Falcon
CNN has an article up about Israel's smackdown on Hamas et al.:
Car swarm pics?
Car swarm video at the link above.
285 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:06:09am |
PAMELA GODWIN FAIL
Not all Germans were Nazis RT @andilinks: Not all Muslims are Jihadis, not all Nazis were Stormtroopers. @pamelageller @hannahpenina— Pamela Geller (@Atlasshrugs) November 14, 2012
286 | davesax Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:08:17am |
Hey Charles, what's up? Long time no see! Hope all is well.
287 | RadicalModerate Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:11:49am |
Not sure how we missed this one, but Jim Hoft, the stupidest man on the internet is going full derp again.
This time, it's on the so-called "war on Christmas" - in Brussels.
Brussels Bans Annual Christmas Tree Display – It May Offend Muslims
Brussels replaced its popular Christmas tree exhibit this year at the city center due to concerns that it may offend the local Muslim population.
The Right Perspective reported:
Except it wasn't a "ban", and didn't involve any of this at all.
Many are not fans of Brussels’ modern art Christmas tree
A petition calling for a real Christmas tree in Brussels’ Grand Place has attracted 10,000 signatures.
Angering traditionalists, the Belgian city’s tourist board has commissioned a 25-metre installation made from screens that will put on light and sound displays.
Reassuring people that the festivities will be just as authentic, president of Brussels Tourism Philippe Close said: “Let’s be clear, there’ll be a Christmas tree and a nativity scene. Christmas traditions will be respected.
“The theme this year is “winter pleasures” at the huge Christmas market that has a worldwide reputation. We wanted to emphasize culture and modernity, so asked artists to reinvent the Christmas tree, which is actually a pagan symbol,” he explained.
There have been attempts to stir racial tensions, with some falsely blaming the switch from the usual real Christmas tree on offended Muslims.
288 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:15:02am |
re: #286 davesax
Hey Charles, what's up? Long time no see! Hope all is well.
good to see you again, though I'm not Charles. Hope all is well for you.
289 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:16:57am |
re: #284 NJDhockeyfan
Car swarm video at the link above.
The Israelis really ought to start launching follow-on missiles at car swarms. If the enemy is going to do you the willing favor of massing like that, you've got a great opportunity to kill a large number of their more fanatical men.
290 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:17:57am |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
The Israelis really ought to start launching follow-on missiles at car swarms. If the enemy is going to do you the willing favor of massing like that, you've got a great opportunity to kill a large number of their more fanatical men.
I don't think that is a good idea, that is random killing which includes first responders, not targeting of the top bad guys.
291 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:19:36am |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
The Israelis really ought to start launching follow-on missiles at car swarms. If the enemy is going to do you the willing favor of massing like that, you've got a great opportunity to kill a large number of their more fanatical men.
Um, how can you tell that people surrounding a vehicle are 'the enemy'?
292 | Eventual Carrion Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:21:38am |
re: #291 Obdicut
Um, how can you tell that people surrounding a vehicle are 'the enemy'?
Everybody's the enemy
293 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:23:49am |
re: #291 Obdicut
Um, how can you tell that people surrounding a vehicle are 'the enemy'?
What I was going to suggest was to issue a warning: "If we blow up a car, stay away from it If you run up to it and start pulling things or people out, you'll be considered a terrorist and treated as such."
That's how I'd do it, but Alouette's point is a valid objection. So I'm not going to actually advocate the idea any further, while I think about it.
294 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:26:09am |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
The Israelis really ought to start launching follow-on missiles at car swarms. If the enemy is going to do you the willing favor of massing like that, you've got a great opportunity to kill a large number of their more fanatical men.
Not a wise idea. Israel know where the terrorists are as well as where their weapons factories and rocket launchers. Killing a group of Palestinians surrounding a burning car would would be used against their goal to stop the terrorist attacks.
295 | Shiplord Kirel Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:27:45am |
Freeper madness, November 14th edition.
This urban legend continues to draw hysterical and violent opposition from the alternate world's resistance forces:
Obama Admin,Democratic Party,UN Will Cancel the 2nd Amendment(Pried From My Cold Dead Hands)
Amid the bloodthirsty promises and nativist rants, Freeper "guardian of liberty" raises a lone voice of sanity:
Get a grip everyone. No treaty can userp (sic) the Bill of Rights.
Period.
296 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:29:50am |
re: #293 Dark_Falcon
What I was going to suggest was to issue a warning: "If we blow up a car, stay away from it If you run up to it and start pulling things or people out, you'll be considered a terrorist and treated as such."
That's how I'd do it, but Alouette's point is a valid objection. So I'm not going to actually advocate the idea any further, while I think about it.
First responders are not and should never be regarded as "terrorists." Targeting first responders after an initial attack is something that terrorists do.
297 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:30:57am |
re: #293 Dark_Falcon
What I was going to suggest was to issue a warning: "If we blow up a car, stay away from it If you run up to it and start pulling things or people out, you'll be considered a terrorist and treated as such."
That would violate the Geneva convention and normal human decency. You don't kill people who are trying to save other people's lives.
That's how I'd do it, but Alouette's point is a valid objection. So I'm not going to actually advocate the idea any further, while I think about it.
The idea is terrible, goes against the Geneva convention, would harden hearts against us, would produce civilian casualties including women and children, and would serve no legitimate military purpose.
We can kill terrorists and insurgents and what have you all day long and it will never end, Dark. We're not going to reform Palestine by killing large numbers of them.
I hope to hell that Israel's current incursion is well thought out and not brought about by pressure from the Avigdor crazies that Bibi has allayed with.
298 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:31:23am |
They are still finding ballots in Florida....
Almost 1K ballots found in Broward elections warehouse
LAUDERHILL, Fla. (WSVN) -- Nearly a thousand ballots that were not included in Florida's final count have been found in a warehouse in Broward County.
Tuesday morning and into the night, there was a buzz of activity at the Voting Equipment Center in Lauderhill, a week after the general election. There was a recount going on for two commission seats that were too close to call, one in Hallandale Beach and another in Dania Beach. Workers had to count those votes manually.
Also keeping elections officials busy is the fact that 963 filled ballots were found in a warehouse. The supervisor of elections, Dr. Brenda Snipes, said this happens all the time, especially when dealing with paper ballots. Her department is not the only one to have seen more ballots added to the final number after the election, and they have until Nov. 18 to certify all the votes.
Snipes noted that it is a routine thing to look for these kind of mishaps after election night and she is just glad that they are now being tallied into that final count.
299 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:36:58am |
Holy freaking wow, the Blue Jays made the deal of a century yesterday.
Being a former Expos fan, I've seen this show before. Their ownership pretty much blackmailed Miami.
300 | Henchman Ghazi-808 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:41:30am |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
The Israelis really ought to start launching follow-on missiles at car swarms. If the enemy is going to do you the willing favor of massing like that, you've got a great opportunity to kill a large number of their more fanatical men.
Whoah. Full stop.
If Israel enacts this policy I can pretty much assure you there will be many Palestinians around bombed vehicles and no actual terrorists.
301 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:42:00am |
re: #299 dragonath
Since this is a good example of Florida dysfunctionality, here's a link detailing how badly Miami got ripped off. The same owners tried that con in Montreal but up there they were wise enough not to fall for it.
[Link: sports.yahoo.com...]
302 | blueraven Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:45:03am |
McCain, Graham and Ayotte in presser, call for select committee on Benghazi
303 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:45:07am |
re: #300 Kronocide
Whoah. Full stop.
If Israel enacts this policy I can pretty much assure you there will be many Palestinians around bombed vehicles and no actual terrorists.
That's part of why I backed off of it. It's far too much a "total war" policy, and Gaza isn't a situation that calls for that. Use of such policies when dealing with insurgents often makes things worse. Gen. David Petraeus was correct when he ensured that point was put into the Army's Counterterrorism field Manual. Another example of why his downfall is such a crying shame.
304 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:47:21am |
re: #302 blueraven
McCain, Graham and Ayotte in presser, call for select committee on Benghazi
Fuck McCain. He really ought to know better than this shit.
305 | Shiplord Kirel Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:50:16am |
re: #295 Shiplord Kirel
Freeper madness, November 14th edition.
This urban legend continues to draw hysterical and violent opposition from the alternate world's resistance forces:
Obama Admin,Democratic Party,UN Will Cancel the 2nd Amendment(Pried From My Cold Dead Hands)
Amid the bloodthirsty promises and nativist rants, Freeper "guardian of liberty" raises a lone voice of sanity:
UPDATE:
"He (Obama) is inviting foreign invasion"
'I honestly believe that there will be some kind of “manufactured” national tragedy that the government will use to convince people to agree to much stricter gun control. This will of course lead to tighter and tighter restrictions until eventually, the people who are pro-freedom will be in such a minority that the gov’t will feel emboldened enough to completely ban all/most firearms. Then the gov’t will be free to label those with guns as “terrorists” and there will be Gitmo type gulags all over this country."
The freepers are seriously going ape-shit on this one. The string is worth a look even for those who normally don't enjoy watching the antics of the crazy right. There is more to it than political voyeurism. It is a revealing and quite scary look into the current mental state of the right-wing gun culture. Some of these people are criminally insane. We are going to see a serious increase in violence from them.
306 | makeitstop Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:52:26am |
re: #302 blueraven
McCain, Graham and Ayotte in presser, call for select committee on Benghazi
* headdesk *
Assholes.
307 | Joanne Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:53:04am |
re: #302 blueraven
McCain, Graham and Ayotte in presser, call for select committee on Benghazi
The hate and disdain displayed by McCain towards Obama was palpable. I have no problem with an investigation into the failures in Benghazi. McCain obviously is demanding a witch hunt.
308 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:53:36am |
re: #306 makeitstop
* headdesk *
Assholes.
Gee, I wonder why McCain didn't call for investigations into any of these attacks?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
309 | makeitstop Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:53:58am |
re: #307 Joanne
The hate and disdain displayed by McCain towards Obama was palpable. I have no problem with an investigation into the failures in Benghazi. McCain obviously is demanding a witch hunt.
Still salty that O kicked his ass.
That old bastard can hold a grudge with the best of them.
310 | Henchman Ghazi-808 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:54:20am |
re: #302 blueraven
McCain, Graham and Ayotte in presser, call for select committee on Benghazi
Fiscal Cliff indeed. How about they review the various attacks on embassies during the previous administration?
311 | Joanne Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:55:03am |
re: #304 Obdicut
Fuck McCain. He really ought to know better than this shit.
McCain is touted as some kind of foreign policy expert. All his actions (especially when he was running for president) displayed the opposite. Remember when Liebermann had to feed McCain his lines about (IIRC) Sunni and Shi'ite? It was an embarrassment.
McCain is a foreign policy expert is the same as Paul Ryan being a policy wonk. It just isn't so.
312 | Joanne Wed, Nov 14, 2012 8:55:49am |
re: #309 makeitstop
Still salty that O kicked his ass.
That old bastard can hold a grudge with the best of them.
This. Exactly.
313 | blueraven Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:00:11am |
re: #298 NJDhockeyfan
They are still finding ballots in Florida....
Meanwhile they are still counting ballots in Arizona over a week after the election.
314 | Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:00:44am |
re: #291 Obdicut
Um, how can you tell that people surrounding a vehicle are 'the enemy'?
They're brown.//
315 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:03:21am |
THIS Giraffe, hates bad news, hates being woken up early, and ESPECIALLY hates both happening at once. If I were really a Giraffe, I would be kicking the shit out of some people right now. Venting helps.
316 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:04:31am |
re: #302 blueraven
McCain, Graham and Ayotte in presser, call for select committee on Benghazi
Sarah Palin!
317 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:04:59am |
re: #315 Dancing along the light of day
You could neck-whip someone.
318 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:05:48am |
re: #317 Obdicut
I am dang near speechlees at this current clusterfuck.
319 | RadicalModerate Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:06:13am |
President Obama soon to hold his first full post-election press conference.
5 things to watch in Obama's news conference
Washington (CNN) -- President Barack Obama is scheduled to have his first news conference since March on Wednesday. It will be the 16th of his presidency and the first since his reelection last week. CNN's daily Gut Check asked those that cover Washington for what they'll be watching for. Here are five things:
320 | Eventual Carrion Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:06:41am |
re: #304 Obdicut
Fuck McCain. He really ought to know better than this shit.
2002: U.S. Consulate In Karachi, Pakistan, Attacked; 10 Killed, 51 Injured.
2004: U.S. Embassy Bombed In Uzbekistan
2004: Gunmen Stormed U.S. Consulate In Saudi Arabia
2006: Armed Men Attacked U.S. Embassy In Syria
2007: Grenade Launched Into U.S. Embassy In Athens
2008: Rioters Set Fire To U.S. Embassy In Serbia
2008: Ten People Killed In Bombings At U.S. Embassy In Yemen
Did I miss the investigations and castigation of the sitting Pres after these attacks. Notice in those attacks 20 people died and 51 were injured. Fuck these political whores.
321 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:08:56am |
re: #320 Eventual Carrion
I object to the use of 'whore' as a negative. Most prostitutes don't have a lot of choice in the matter. These guys are consciously choosing to attack the president on what they know is bullshit, even though it'll weaken America.
Prostitutes are on sounder ethical footing.
322 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:09:39am |
re: #319 RadicalModerate
President Obama soon to hold his first full post-election press conference.
It's going to be a tough news conference for the President.
323 | Joanne Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:10:52am |
re: #319 RadicalModerate
President Obama soon to hold his first full post-election press conference.
Meh to the things written there.
Senior Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash asks, "Will the president do in his second term what Republicans as well as Democrats on Capitol Hill complain he didn't do in his first -- reach out?
"He told Jessica Yellin in her documentary that he doesn't have time to socialize because he has two young daughters. But he's got to eat lunch, right? Have coffee in the morning? Will he vow to make more of an effort to get to know lawmakers in his second term? By all accounts -- especially from Democratic lawmakers -- not doing that hurt him in his first term. Maybe he'll make more time over the next four years."
Double Meh.
324 | makeitstop Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:12:01am |
re: #323 Joanne
Meh to the things written there.
Double Meh.
I don't mean to be offensive, but Dana Bash is.... dim.
325 | Joanne Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:12:45am |
re: #322 NJDhockeyfan
It's going to be a tough news conference for the President.
Those are reasonable questions. The CNN list was stupid (color me shocked).
326 | Daniel Ballard Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:12:50am |
re: #318 Dancing along the light of day
I am dang near speechlees at this current clusterfuck.
I can just imagine the look...
327 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:12:51am |
Lindsey Graham On Susan Rice: ‘I Don’t Trust Her’
But he implicitly trusted John Bolton.
328 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:13:04am |
re: #322 NJDhockeyfan
It's going to be a tough news conference for the President.
He did just win an election.
I don't see any questions in there that are tougher than that.
329 | Joanne Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:13:18am |
re: #324 makeitstop
I don't mean to be offensive, but Dana Bash is.... dim.
Well, THAT was polite. :-D
330 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:14:14am |
re: #318 Dancing along the light of day
I am dang near speechless at this current clusterfuck.
Which clusterfuck is that? There's a lot of them these days.
331 | Joanne Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:17:07am |
re: #327 dragonath
Lindsey Graham On Susan Rice: ‘I Don’t Trust Her’
But he implicitly trusted John Bolton.
Stole all your responses and posted them at the TPM link.
332 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:17:20am |
re: #328 Obdicut
He did just win an election.
I don't see any questions in there that are tougher than that.
Four years ago Obama was kind of astonished that he actually won.
333 | blueraven Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:17:21am |
re: #327 dragonath
Lindsey Graham On Susan Rice: ‘I Don’t Trust Her’
But he implicitly trusted John Bolton.
And the other Rice. The one who said there were WMDs in Iraq based on Intelligence.
334 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:17:42am |
re: #327 dragonath
Lindsey Graham On Susan Rice: ‘I Don’t Trust Her’
But he implicitly trusted John Bolton.
Susan Rice has been the ambassador to the UN for almost 4 years. I barely heard anyone complain. Anyone? Anything that they objected to or is this some more right wing paranoia?
335 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:17:55am |
FBI investigating how Petraeus biographer Broadwell obtained classified files
The FBI is making a new push to determine how a woman who had an affair with retired Gen. David H. Petraeus when he was CIA director obtained classified files, part of an expanding series of investigations in a scandal that also threatens the career of the United States’ top military commander in Afghanistan.
Senior law enforcement officials said that a late-night seizure on Monday of boxes of material from the North Carolina home of Paula Broadwell, a Petraeus biographer whose affair with him led to his resignation last week, marks a renewed focus by investigators on sensitive material found in her possession.
“The issue of national security is still on the table,” one U.S. law enforcement official said. Both Petraeus and Broadwell have denied to investigators that he was the source of any classified information, officials said.
I think she has answered that question already.
Broadwell In October: "I Had Access To Everything"
“I was embedded with Gen. Petraeus in Afghanistan, and it was a little confusing to some of the folks there because I am also a military reservist with a top secret FBI clearance and then some,” Broadwell told an audience at an Aspen Institute event in October.
“I had access to everything, it was my experience not to leak it, not to violate my mentor, if you will,” she said. “He was a very close mentor.”
336 | Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:18:09am |
re: #311 Joanne
McCain is touted as some kind of foreign policy expert. All his actions (especially when he was running for president) displayed the opposite. Remember when Liebermann had to feed McCain his lines about (IIRC) Sunni and Shi'ite? It was an embarrassment.
McCain is a foreign policy expert is the same as Paul Ryan being a policy wonk. It just isn't so.
Many people are attributed qualities they did nothing to earn. Most of the time it's happenstance and coincidence, or just plain bullshit. Romney was a business expert because he inherited a shitload of money (and a family name) and turned it into even more money through hostile takeovers and debt-loading. McCain is considered a "foreign-policy expert" because he couldn't fly for shit and was a POW (not knocking his service, but it in no way makes him an expert in foreign policy). Ryan has what, a BS in Economics? creates a budget that pretty much inflicts massive pain on lowly folks the media would scrape off of their shoe, and voila! expert!
It's infuriating at times, but this old saying applies; "a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." The news media tards know shit-all about, well, most everything, so if somebody sounds smart to them, or tells what what they want to hear, bingo, expert!
337 | Lidane Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:18:19am |
Wonka laughs at the secessionist douchebags:
338 | blueraven Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:18:26am |
re: #334 Gus
Susan Rice has been the ambassador to the UN for almost 4 years. I barely heard anyone complain. Anyone? Anything that they objected to or is this some more right wing paranoia?
You know...Benghazi!!
340 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:20:05am |
re: #335 NJDhockeyfan
Trusting what she says is silly. It may be the case that Petraeus was astonishingly stupid and let her have access. It's also possible that shirtless-FBI-guy let her have them.
No need to make assumptions; things will come out. This is hardly something that's going to be put aside until it's investigated up and down. FBI vs. CIA, especially.
341 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:20:30am |
re: #258 Dark_Falcon
It goes to show us that in a democratic society, we must remember that the people we put in power are humans wiht the same weaknesses and foibles we all share.
Which makes it important to maintain checks and balances, transparency and anwerability for their actions. Which is something we chuck out the door when we give them unlimited powers of search and seizure or any other powers over us.
342 | Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:20:58am |
re: #335 NJDhockeyfan
FBI investigating how Petraeus biographer Broadwell obtained classified files
I think she has answered that question already.
This lady has made quite a mess.
343 | Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:22:06am |
re: #339 Gus
Oh, right. Benghazi.
9/11.
Somehow it seems like the Conservatards want to invoke the Magical Balance Fairy and turn Benghazi into Obama's 9-11.
Out of all of the adjectives I can think of, pathetic is the most apt I can find.
344 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:22:54am |
re: #340 Obdicut
Trusting what she says is silly. It may be the case that Petraeus was astonishingly stupid and let her have access. It's also possible that shirtless-FBI-guy let her have them.
No need to make assumptions; things will come out. This is hardly something that's going to be put aside until it's investigated up and down. FBI vs. CIA, especially.
"...I am also a military reservist with a top secret SCI clearance and then some"
-- Broadwell
345 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:23:13am |
346 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:23:18am |
Hey, D_F, maybe you can divine what it is that the Republicans don't like about Susan Rice. I'm quite serious, I'd like to know what the deal is.
347 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:23:59am |
re: #343 Ghost of Tom Joad
Somehow it seems like the Conservatards want to invoke the Magical Balance Fairy and turn Benghazi into Obama's 9-11.
Out of all of the adjectives I can think of, pathetic is the most apt I can find.
9/11 was like 1,000 Benghazis.
348 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:24:04am |
re: #341 Sol Berdinowitz
It goes to show us that in a democratic society, we must remember that the people we put in power are humans wiht the same weaknesses and foibles we all share.
Which makes it important to maintain checks and balances, transparency and answerability for their actions. Which is something we chuck out the door when we give them unlimited powers of search and seizure or any other unchecked powers over us.
I'd suggest the amendment of your statement to correct the spelling of "answerability" and to add the word "unchecked" between 'other and 'powers'. My quote contains the proposed corrections. The second one is to deal with the fact that we must give government some powers over us, the key is to make sure that there are operational checks on those powers.
349 | lostlakehiker Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:25:11am |
re: #8 SteveMcG
When that giraffe lets go, it's gonna be nasty!
And prolonged. Giraffes can whizz for five minutes straight. I timed it in a zoo once. (OK, I'm quirky)
But why would the giraffe want to wander into a LEGO city?
350 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:25:47am |
But this Secretary Rice, who oversaw the original 9/11 intelligence failure, was qualified, according to John McCain. youtu.be/DIpEwGmSsmM— Keith Boykin (@keithboykin) November 14, 2012
351 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:26:01am |
re: #346 dragonath
Hey, D_F, maybe you can divine what it is that the Republicans don't like about Susan Rice. I'm quite serious, I'd like to know what the deal is.
Sorry, but I really can't give any insight into the matter. I just don't know enough about her to competently answer.
352 | makeitstop Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:26:24am |
re: #347 Vicious Babushka
9/11 was like 1,000 Benghazis.
Nuh-uh!
Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi !!!11ty
353 | Lidane Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:26:27am |
Austin has some unwelcome guests this week:
Westboro Baptists Hate Formula One
Ever wanted a chance to catch professional homophobes and veteran funeral disruptors the Westboro Baptist Church in action? Headed to the Formula One race at the Circuit of the Americas this weekend? Guess what! You can do both. Yup, the Westboro hate machine is rolling into Austin this weekend.
Yes, innovative hatemonger Fred Phelps is unleashing his offspring and assorted ill-wishers on Austin. Who's Phelps? He's the guy that always comes to fancy dress parties as the evil preacher from Poltergeist (or would if anyone invited him and he didn't think parties are a sign that you love Satan.) On their website [WBC link removed], the fringiest of the religious fringe have added this weekend's United States Grand Prix to their schedule of protests (please note, that schedule also includes pickets of Aerosmith and Bruce Springsteen.)
354 | Daniel Ballard Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:29:26am |
re: #313 blueraven
Meanwhile they are still counting ballots in Arizona over a week after the election.
I'd not worry. there is a good reason the deadline for electoral votes is December. logistics are a bitch with tens of millions of paper ballots. There are always stray ballots. Heck that's one motivation for part of HAVA.
355 | Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:29:33am |
re: #353 Lidane
WBC's lawyers must be getting ready for all of the upcoming lawsuits, or as Phelp's calls it, fundraising.
356 | lostlakehiker Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:29:38am |
re: #346 dragonath
Hey, D_F, maybe you can divine what it is that the Republicans don't like about Susan Rice. I'm quite serious, I'd like to know what the deal is.
Can there be any mystery? She goes on five Sunday talk shows and makes confident assertions about Benghazi that turn out to have been 180 wrong. We now know that "initial information", if there ever was any to the effect that there had been a demonstration before the Benghazi consulate, was false and was known to be false within hours after the attack began, and before it ended. By the time Rice went on her talk shows, the administration had had information contrary to everything she said, and had had it for days.
Maybe she was given her talking points and kept out of the loop. Used. If so, why hasn't she resigned? And maybe she knew better, even as she spoke.
Either way, she would begin her career as Secretary of State with zero credibility. That's a recipe for disaster. Part of the reason for the Kuwait war was that April Glaspie was not believed.
358 | makeitstop Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:30:43am |
Next up: Benghazi-Palooza.
Mission accomplished, Senator McCain.
359 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:32:06am |
re: #355 Ghost of Tom Joad
WBC's lawyers must be getting ready for all of the upcoming lawsuits, or as Phelp's calls it, fundraising.
A bunch of lawyers like that imagining they'll get into Heaven? They really must be delusional!
///
360 | Joanne Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:32:36am |
re: #354 Daniel Ballard
I'd not worry. there is a good reason the deadline for electoral votes is December. logistics are a bitch with tens of millions of paper ballots. There are always stray ballots. Heck that's one motivation for part of HAVA.
It's not the presidential ballots that are concerning here, it is congressional races. AZ law (per Maddow last night) requires this be completed by this Friday (two days from now). There were more than 350k provisional ballots remaining outstanding with only 18k ballots being cleared yesterday.
Provisional ballots by mostly Latinos and mostly out of two counties because, mysteriously, those Latinos names were not added to the voting rolls when they registered.
Funny how that works.
361 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:33:48am |
re: #352 makeitstop
Benghazi was worse than 9/11!
Benghazi was worse than the Holocaust!
363 | Joanne Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:34:37am |
re: #356 lostlakehiker
Is that true? I had read that there was confusion due to the people who attacked the Benghazi compound using the protests in the street (which were over the video) as cover.
Shit, I have read so much noise about this, at this point I don't have any idea what is true or not.
364 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:35:39am |
re: #363 Joanne
Is that true? I had read that there was confusion due to the people who attacked the Benghazi compound using the protests in the street (which were over the video) as cover.
Shit, I have read so much noise about this, at this point I don't have any idea what is true or not.
I'd file lostlakehiker's comment under 'noise'.
365 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:35:57am |
The IDF has posted astonishing footage on its YouTube channel claiming to show its "pinpoint attack" on the car carrying Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari and his son.
366 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:36:25am |
re: #365 NJDhockeyfan
The IDF has posted astonishing footage on its YouTube channel claiming to show its "pinpoint attack" on the car carrying Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari and his son.
[Embedded content]
His son?
367 | dragonfire1981 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:36:26am |
I can already see this Petraeus affair becoming a feature film with John Travolta and Tom Hanks in major roles. Working title: Betrayed.
368 | Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:37:10am |
re: #367 dragonfire1981
I can already see this Petraeus affair becoming a feature film with John Travolta and Tom Hanks in major roles.
"Sleepless in Benghazi"
369 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:37:24am |
re: #363 Joanne
Is that true? I had read that there was confusion due to the people who attacked the Benghazi compound using the protests in the street (which were over the video) as cover.
Shit, I have read so much noise about this, at this point I don't have any idea what is true or not.
there are Higher Truths at stake here. These Higher Truths are that Obama coddles terrorists and hates America. Therefore anything we can say about B-zi that confirms these notions is serving a Higher Truth.
I am afraid that I cannot get High enough to perceive these Truths...
370 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:37:40am |
re: #365 NJDhockeyfan
I always feel a little ambivalent about footage like this.
371 | makeitstop Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:38:07am |
re: #364 wrenchwench
I'd file lostlakehiker's comment under 'noise'.
And I'm sure there's a whole lot more coming down the road. McCain probably got every wingnut in the country all het up all over again.
Earplugs, anyone?
372 | Lidane Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:38:30am |
Dear Obama, If Texas Secedes, Can We Stay With You?
So the interwebs have been abuzz with the crazy Texas secession petition, whereby forces who never accepted the end result of the Civil War have asked President Obama to let Texas exit the Union. Now there's a counter-petition: If Texas is allowed to secede, Austinites are asking that they be allowed to stay part of the USA.
In the petition, currently open for signatures at [link removed], the authors ask the administration to allow "the city of Austin, Texas to withdraw from the state of Texas and remain part of the United States."
---SNIP---
This comes as other petitioners, equally sick of the secessionist nonsense, have asked Obama to deport everyone that signed a petition to withdraw their state from the United States of America or strip the citizenship from everyone who signed a petition to secede and exile them. By comparison, establishing Austin as a sort of free city in the middle of an Confederate Texas seems kind of awesome.
C'mon, people, we can do this! It only takes 25,000 signatures and we have to get a formal response from the White House. Call all your friends! We know the rest of the US wants to keep us! And what would happen to the a-HEM Texas economic miracle without Austin keeping if afloat? Plus, last time Henry Rollins came through town, he promised us Berlin Airlift-style supplies of porn and Stooges albums.
373 | Gus Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:39:08am |
re: #370 dragonath
I always feel a little ambivalent about footage like this.
War porn. Reminds me of the old LGF. Kind of gross really.
374 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:39:25am |
re: #366 Gus
His son?
Apparently he was with his dad.
Report: Terrorist Mastermind's Son Also Eliminated
Initial reports indicate that not only was terrorist mastermind Ahmed Jabari eliminated, but his son as well. The two were traveling in a car in Gaza City when Israel Defense Forces engaged in a pinpoint surgical strike to eliminate them. The 52-year-old Jabari was behind countless rocket attacks on Israeli civilians as well as the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit.
376 | Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:40:24am |
re: #365 NJDhockeyfan
The IDF has posted astonishing footage on its YouTube channel claiming to show its "pinpoint attack" on the car carrying Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari and his son.
[Embedded content]
Looks like the used a low explosive kinetic missile. Carefully targeted to avoid civilian casualties. Nice shot. If only Hamas cared as much about Palestinian civilians.
378 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:41:42am |
379 | Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:43:12am |
380 | Obdicut Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:46:05am |
re: #356 lostlakehiker
Stop pushing this bullshit.
1. Her initial report was that a protest had been hijacked by armed attackers. That is not the same thing as saying that a protest got out of hand. It is acknowledging that armed, prepared attackers did attack.
1a. And this was based off of CIA talking points.
2. The militia did attack in response to the video. That's what fundamentalist nutjobs do. I do not understand the conspiracy theories about this.
3. What the fuck does it matter? This again is part of the conspiracy theories I don't understand. The attack is being investigated-- what is the supposed cover-up supposed to be covering-up, anyway?
381 | blueraven Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:46:22am |
re: #354 Daniel Ballard
I'd not worry. there is a good reason the deadline for electoral votes is December. logistics are a bitch with tens of millions of paper ballots. There are always stray ballots. Heck that's one motivation for part of HAVA.
There are still some unsettled state and local elections. Electoral votes aside.
382 | Daniel Ballard Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:46:38am |
re: #377 Gus
War mongers? Nobody here wants a war.
So, that would be the guys launching the rockets at Israel all the freaking time.
JERUSALEM/GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinian militants indicated they were ready for a truce with Israel on Monday to defuse a growing crisis after four days of rocket strikes from the Gaza Strip into the south of the Jewish state.
383 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:47:00am |
re: #366 Gus
His son?
Likely an adult or teenage son. Khalid bin Laden was 19 when the SEALs shot him dead right before doing the same to his father.
384 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:47:55am |
385 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:49:42am |
I am going to Israel in 2 weeks, I hope all this crap gets straightened out by then.
386 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:50:24am |
re: #385 Vicious Babushka
You will have a wonderful trip!
387 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:51:13am |
re: #382 Daniel Ballard
War mongers? Nobody here wants a war.
So, that would be the guys launching the rockets at Israel all the freaking time.
JERUSALEM/GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinian militants indicated they were ready for a truce with Israel on Monday to defuse a growing crisis after four days of rocket strikes from the Gaza Strip into the south of the Jewish state.
Exactly. Israel warned this turkey that it could not continue to tolerate his forces and other smaller Islamist groups firing rockets into Israel every day. He refused to act to stop the bombardment and has now met the the consequences for doing so.
This Israeli strike was the moral equivalent of the Abbottabad Raid or the Yamamoto Mission.
388 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:51:14am |
re: #380 Obdicut
You know, I try to be careful when talking about the past, but what great event occurred that made people's threshold to outrage so low after Bush...?
Don't answer that.
389 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:52:03am |
re: #386 Dancing along the light of day
You will have a wonderful trip!
Visiting my daughter & 5 grandbabies in Jerusalem!
390 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:52:04am |
re: #386 Dancing along the light of day
You will have a wonderful trip!
Are you feeling better now, Floral?
391 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:52:40am |
re: #385 Vicious Babushka
I am going to Israel in 2 weeks, I hope all this crap gets straightened out by then.
My friend's son just got out of the IDF after serving 2 years but he's decided to stay in Israel. His mom is scared to death about the recent upscale of threats and attacks on Israel.
392 | erik_t Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:53:27am |
393 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:54:15am |
re: #389 Vicious Babushka
See, a wonderful trip!
394 | Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:54:25am |
re: #380 Obdicut
Stop pushing this bullshit.
1. Her initial report was that a protest had been hijacked by armed attackers. That is not the same thing as saying that a protest got out of hand. It is acknowledging that armed, prepared attackers did attack.
1a. And this was based off of CIA talking points.
2. The militia did attack in response to the video. That's what fundamentalist nutjobs do. I do not understand the conspiracy theories about this.
3. What the fuck does it matter? This again is part of the conspiracy theories I don't understand. The attack is being investigated-- what is the supposed cover-up supposed to be covering-up, anyway?
They're just completely off their rockers about this ridiculous non-story. It's pathetic.
395 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:54:59am |
re: #390 Dark_Falcon
It's still a clusterfuck, but might be manageable.
396 | Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:55:34am |
We've got people posting comments at LGF that sound just like the loons at Free Republic. Or like Bryan Fischer:
If Petraeus testifies Friday he got blackmailed/pressured from the top to lie about Benghazi, it could bring Obama down.— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) November 14, 2012
397 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:57:01am |
re: #396 Charles Johnson
We've got people posting comments at LGF that sound just like the loons at Free Republic. Or like Bryan Fischer:
[Embedded content]
I've heard it's the October Surprise with poor timing, and would have prevented Obama's reelection, if only something something something....
398 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:57:32am |
If Petraeus testifies Friday he got blackmailed/pressured from the top to lie about Benghazi, it could bring Obama down.— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) November 14, 2012
If I had wheels, I'd be a wagon.
399 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:58:05am |
re: #398 Our Precious Bodily Fluids
[Embedded content]
If I had wheels, I'd be a wagon.
Or a garbage truck!
400 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:58:17am |
re: #398 Our Precious Bodily Fluids
[Embedded content]
If I had wheels, I'd be a wagon.
If I had wheels I'd be a bicycle.
401 | erik_t Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:59:09am |
re: #394 Charles Johnson
They're just completely off their rockers about this ridiculous non-story. It's pathetic.
They've been ranting for weeks and I still have no idea what they're even alleging. It's the strangest damned thing.
Usually a conspiracy theory falls apart at the 'how' or the 'why'. Even 9/11 troofers can at least agree on a 'what'.
402 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 9:59:30am |
re: #377 Gus
Eh. I better split. The war mongers are here.
Would you be talking about these war mongers?
403 | makeitstop Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:00:34am |
re: #396 Charles Johnson
We've got people posting comments at LGF that sound just like the loons at Free Republic. Or like Bryan Fischer:
[Embedded content]
That's their most fervent hope - that it will 'bring Obama down.'
Hey, screw the country, as long as the black guy gets put back in his place.
Idiots.
404 | Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:05:12am |
re: #403 makeitstop
That's their most fervent hope - that it will 'bring Obama down.'
Hey, screw the country, as long as the black guy gets put back in his place.
Idiots.
The black guy DID get put back in his place: The White House.
405 | Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:05:14am |
re: #402 NJDhockeyfan
Would you be talking about these war mongers?
...and the guy killed was an active terrorist leader and known hostage taker. I don't think letting him continue would be in the interest of peace.
406 | Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:06:47am |
re: #401 erik_t
They've been ranting for weeks and I still have no idea what they're even alleging. It's the strangest damned thing.
Usually a conspiracy theory falls apart at the 'how' or the 'why'. Even 9/11 troofers can at least agree on a 'what'.
Usually the ones that try to explain "why" (CONNECT THE DOTS!!11) end up connecting the conspiracy of the moment to every past conspiracy, all the way back to the [secret] beginning of time, in an effort to weave a Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory which is of course internally contradictory and irreconcilably senseless.
407 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:07:18am |
re: #401 erik_t
They've been ranting for weeks and I still have no idea what they're even alleging. It's the strangest damned thing.
Usually a conspiracy theory falls apart at the 'how' or the 'why'. Even 9/11 troofers can at least agree on a 'what'.
That's why I've largely left Benghazi alone in recent weeks. I'm fine with dissecting and understanding the tactics the terrorists used, because they brought a good deal of support fire to aid their assault. And I'm all for understanding the timeline and what could have been done differently. But I don't see any sort of "great conspiracy" at work. So as the discussion has veered into matters of tinfoil hats and mocking the nutbars who wear them, I've stepped back.
408 | Henchman 26 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:08:19am |
re: #315 Dancing along the light of day
THIS Giraffe, hates bad news, hates being woken up early, and ESPECIALLY hates both happening at once. If I were really a Giraffe, I would be kicking the shit out of some people right now. Venting helps.
I go flat when I vent.
409 | blueraven Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:08:30am |
re: #398 Our Precious Bodily Fluids
[Embedded content]
If I had wheels, I'd be a wagon.
Right, because Petraeus could never speak of Benghazi ever again. This is just ignorant. It makes no sense whatsoever.
410 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:08:57am |
re: #405 Killgore Trout
...and the guy killed was an active terrorist leader and known hostage taker. I don't think letting him continue would be in the interest of peace.
It's a great day when a terrorist like this guy is taken down.
Profile of a terrorist: Ahmed Jabari
Ahmed Said Khalil Jabari, was the most senior Hamas official to be killed by Israel since Operation Cast Lead four years ago.
Jabari, officially the second in command of Hamas's Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades but its de facto leader, has long been at the top of Israel's most wanted list.
Jabari has been credited with making the terrorist group's military wing increasingly more professional.
It was Jabari who personally oversaw the kidnapping and imprisonment of kidnapped IDF soldier Gilad Schalit.
A shadowy figure who deliberately kept a low profile and rarely made public appearances, such was Jabari's involvement in the Schalit kidnapping that he allowed himself to be photographed last October as he escorted the IDF soldier to Gaza's Rafah Crossing on the day of his release last year.
After Schalit's release, Jabari said Hamas planned to kidnap more Israeli soldiers and officers, to use them as bargaining chips for the release of Palestinian prisoners.
The Hamas military wing leader even boasted to the al-Hayat newspaper that most of the terrorists released in the first wave of the deal to free Shalit had been collectively responsible for murdering 569 Israeli civilians.
...The pro-Hezbollah newspaper quoted Jabari as saying "as long as the Zionists occupy our land, there is nothing for them but death or departure from the occupied Palestinian territories".
411 | jaunte Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:11:06am |
Bryan Fischer: If Petraeus testifies Friday he got blackmailed/pressured from the top to lie about Benghazi, it could bring Obama down.
This month's "it could bring Obama down" fantasy.
Have they given up on Fast & Furious?
412 | Henchman 26 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:11:19am |
re: #400 wrenchwench
If I had wheels I'd be a bicycle.
If I had wheels I'd be on the road instead of waiting for my car to be fixed.
413 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:13:37am |
re: #406 Our Precious Bodily Fluids
Usually the ones that try to explain "why" (CONNECT THE DOTS!!11) end up connecting the conspiracy of the moment to every past conspiracy, all the way back to the [secret] beginning of time, in an effort to weave a Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory which is of course internally contradictory and irreconcilably senseless.
So the laser designator the CIA had in Benhazi should have designated a mortar positioned behind the Grassy Knoll?
///
414 | Dancing along the light of day Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:13:42am |
re: #400 wrenchwench
Giggles, you do have wheels, and you are working on (easy to fix) bicycles!
415 | Henchman 26 Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:16:43am |
re: #414 Dancing along the light of day
Giggles, you do have wheels, and you are working on (easy to fix) bicycles!
And stop calling me Giggles.
416 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:18:41am |
re: #410 NJDhockeyfan
It's a great day when a terrorist like this guy is taken down.
Still no reason to post footage of the explosion here. I think that might be what Gus meant by 'war-mongering', don't you?
417 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:21:18am |
re: #416 wrenchwench
Still no reason to post footage of the explosion here. I think that might be what Gus meant by 'war-mongering', don't you?
No. It's a released video from the IDF. If that make me a war monger than so is the entire MSM because they are also posting it.
418 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:22:24am |
This could be huge...
Explosion in house of Hamas cofounder Mahmoud al-Zahar, in Gaza (Haaretz)— joseph dana (@ibnezra) November 14, 2012
Wow, Zahar. No confirmation that he's been hit. But if he has been, well, he's the strategic brains of Hamas in Gaza.— Dan Murphy (@bungdan) November 14, 2012
419 | Eventual Carrion Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:22:38am |
re: #417 NJDhockeyfan
No. It's a released video from the IDF. If that make me a war monger than so is the entire MSM because they are also posting it.
Yes they are. Death sells, death with an explosion sells better.
420 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:25:33am |
re: #417 NJDhockeyfan
No. It's a released video from the IDF. If that make me a war monger than so is the entire MSM because they are also posting it.
The entire MSM will monger anything that gets page views. The IDF, obviously, is a military organization. It is appropriate for them to monger war. I still don't think you need to post footage of an explosion that killed at least two people, no matter how justified the death of at least one of them was. You could post a link to it, or make a Page, or start your own blog. I'd rather have Gus back here than see footage of death being dealt.
421 | Daniel Ballard Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:26:22am |
re: #419 Eventual Carrion
Yes they are. Death sells, death with an explosion sells better.
If there is no video they will be accused of carpet bombing or something. The video just shows the strike, and BTW unlike most YouTube feeds there is no ad revenue. So, it ain't about selling anything but the truth of the place and scope of the counter attack.
422 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:26:42am |
re: #420 wrenchwench
The entire MSM will monger anything that gets page views. The IDF, obviously, is a military organization. It is appropriate for them to monger war. I still don't think you need to post footage of an explosion that killed at least two people, no matter how justified the death of at least one of them was. You could post a link to it, or make a Page, or start your own blog. I'd rather have Gus back here than see footage of death being dealt.
Don't click on the video if it bothers you that much.
423 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:28:12am |
re: #422 NJDhockeyfan
Don't click on the video if it bothers you that much.
Don't address my points, since they bother you so much.
425 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:29:49am |
re: #423 wrenchwench
Don't address my points, since they bother you so much.
You points don't bother me at all. This is huge news that affects all of us. I will post another one if the IDF releases one.
426 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:30:55am |
Youtube can issue a takedown notice of people singing their favorite songs, yet videos of people getting killed are de rigueur. Interesting times, indeed.
Fuck, I can't stand Hamas but when did snuff films become acceptable?
427 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:31:54am |
re: #420 wrenchwench
The entire MSM will monger anything that gets page views. The IDF, obviously, is a military organization. It is appropriate for them to monger war. I still don't think you need to post footage of an explosion that killed at least two people, no matter how justified the death of at least one of them was. You could post a link to it, or make a Page, or start your own blog. I'd rather have Gus back here than see footage of death being dealt.
If you're going to kill a deadly enemy, the best way to do it is how the IDF did it: Public and either spectacularly or brutally. You need to make the point that he's dead because he attacked you crystal clear.
428 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:32:01am |
re: #425 NJDhockeyfan
You points don't bother me at all. This is huge news that affects all of us. I will post another one if the IDF releases one.
Why don't you post a statement by the IDF, or their Tweets, as is being done in the next thread. What compels you to post images of death?
And since it doesn't bother you that this was my point, do you think that might be what Gus meant by 'warmongering'?
429 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:32:49am |
re: #427 Dark_Falcon
If you're going to kill a deadly enemy, the best way to do it is how the IDF did it: Public and either spectacularly or brutally. You need to make the point that he's dead because he attacked you crystal clear.
Not by posting the footage at LGF.
I respect the IDF. I don't respect posting their videos here.
430 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:32:50am |
re: #426 dragonath
Youtube can issue a takedown notice of people singing their favorite songs, yet videos of people getting killed are de rigueur. Interesting times, indeed.
Fuck, I can't stand Hamas but when did snuff films become legal?
It's the same as gun camera footage of strafing runs, which was shown in theaters during World War II.
431 | Ghost of Tom Joad Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:33:11am |
re: #425 NJDhockeyfan
This is huge news that affects all of us.
Yeah, I was hiding under my bed until they got this guy. Can sleep well now.
432 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:36:27am |
re: #430 Dark_Falcon
It's the same as gun camera footage of strafing runs, which was shown in theaters during World War II.
Yeah, how wonderful is that. Now in real time, for the entire world to see.
433 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:37:08am |
re: #430 Dark_Falcon
It's the same as gun camera footage of strafing runs, which was shown in theaters during World War II.
People expected to see those films in theaters at that time. That's where people got their news, besides the radio. They didn't have TVs. Anybody who wants to see that stuff now has a million options. I follow the IDF's twitter feed. I still don't see any reason to post snuff porn here. And I'd rather have Gus stay than support those who feel the need to post it.
434 | Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:38:30am |
re: #422 NJDhockeyfan
Don't click on the video if it bothers you that much.
These videos are important and there's a reason why the IDF releases them. The video shows a clean and carefully targeted hit with care to avoid civilian casualties. Without the videos the terrorists, and their supporters/apologists within various news agencies would claim indiscriminate carpet bombing and war crimes. It's important that these videos be seen.
435 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:42:46am |
re: #433 wrenchwench
People expected to see those films in theaters at that time. That's where people got their news, besides the radio. They didn't have TVs. Anybody who wants to see that stuff now has a million options. I follow the IDF's twitter feed. I still don't see any reason to post snuff porn here. And I'd rather have Gus stay than support those who feel the need to post it.
I understand how you feel. I'd only ask then that you not call it "snuff porn". It's got legitimate news value and as such is not "pornographic" as that term is generally understood (meaning appealing solely to "base instincts"). "Violent War Videos" seems a better term. Would that be acceptable to you?
436 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:43:13am |
re: #434 Killgore Trout
These videos are important and there's a reason why the IDF releases them. The video shows a clean and carefully targeted hit with care to avoid civilian casualties. Without the videos the terrorists, and their supporters/apologists within various news agencies would claim indiscriminate carpet bombing and war crimes. It's important that these videos be seen.
I agree that there's a good reason for them to exist. I don't agree that there's a good reason for them to be posted here.
Do you think it's important for them to be seen by lizards who post at LGF in the morning?
437 | NJDhockeyfan Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:43:28am |
re: #434 Killgore Trout
These videos are important and there's a reason why the IDF releases them. The video shows a clean and carefully targeted hit with care to avoid civilian casualties. Without the videos the terrorists, and their supporters/apologists within various news agencies would claim indiscriminate carpet bombing and war crimes. It's important that these videos be seen.
You Warmonger!
//
438 | Eventual Carrion Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:44:07am |
re: #427 Dark_Falcon
If you're going to kill a deadly enemy, the best way to do it is how the IDF did it: Public and either spectacularly or brutally. You need to make the point that he's dead because he attacked you crystal clear.
That's how Idi Amin saw it too (and many other dictators). Or put them on fucking pikes like Vald the Impaler did.
439 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:45:37am |
re: #435 Dark_Falcon
I understand how you feel. I'd only ask then that you not call it "snuff porn". It's got legitimate news value and as such is not "pornographic" as that term is generally understood (meaning appealing solely to "base instincts"). "Violent War Videos" seems a better term. Would that be acceptable to you?
I think violence is a baser instinct than sex. I do believe these films have legitimate value. I don't think posting them here has legitimate value.
440 | Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:45:44am |
re: #436 wrenchwench
I agree that there's a good reason for them to exist. I don't agree that there's a good reason for them to be posted here.
Do you think it's important for them to be seen by lizards who post at LGF in the morning?
Then don't watch them.
441 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:48:38am |
re: #440 Killgore Trout
Then don't watch them.
That doesn't address any of my points. Usually I don't watch them. I watched this one so I was sure of what we were discussing. Watching that stuff doesn't really bother me that much. I refrain from identifying with those that are killed. Not everyone can do that. Some people are bothered by seeing the footage, others are bothered by the fact that they are posted here. I still don't see any justification for posting them.
442 | allegro Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:50:43am |
re: #398 Our Precious Bodily Fluids
[Embedded content]
If I had wheels, I'd be a wagon.
If I had appeal, I'd be a banana.
Wait...
443 | Dark_Falcon Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:52:59am |
re: #439 wrenchwench
I think violence is a baser instinct than sex. I do believe these films have legitimate value. I don't think posting them here has legitimate value.
I respect your opinion, though I don't agree. I'll try to keep from posting that sort thing when you are around.
[heading upstairs]
444 | wrenchwench Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:54:13am |
re: #443 Dark_Falcon
I respect your opinion, though I don't agree. I'll try to keep from posting that sort thing when you are around.
[heading upstairs]
I'm still here. Gus left. Nobody wants to address that. Who knows who else may have left, or never entered because of this sort of thing.
445 | dragonath Wed, Nov 14, 2012 10:57:47am |
re: #434 Killgore Trout
That seems irrelevant since Hamas is going to declare the operation illegal anyway. Anesthetised war is still war. Really, I don't think posting videos like this is going to lead to the PR you expect.
446 | Daniel Ballard Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:19:58pm |
Maybe that video is too explicit for this blog. Tossing out terms like "the war mongers are here" sucks too. I'm not blind to the undercurrents from the post 9/11 days here before my time. I might suggest those resentments might be a bit past the sell by date. Just my own thinking on it.
But lets not suppress discussion about Israel when they are in the breaking news. It seems to me posting a link to the video helps us define the scope and truth of the attack for ourselves. There is no lack of Israel derangement syndrome out there in the media. Wild accusations abound with Israel and the Palestinians.
447 | lostlakehiker Wed, Nov 14, 2012 12:22:46pm |
re: #363 Joanne
Is that true? I had read that there was confusion due to the people who attacked the Benghazi compound using the protests in the street (which were over the video) as cover.
Shit, I have read so much noise about this, at this point I don't have any idea what is true or not.
There was no `protest in the street' at the consulate prior to the Benghazi attack. That's just a fact, a matter of public record. Not unless you count small arms fire and RPG's as "protest". The place was quiet, and then the attack began.
There was some confusion at first because of a natural conjecture that, with so many protests elsewhere, this may have started out the same and then ramped from there. We now know that's not how it went. The administration already knew that when Rice went out to her talk shows.
448 | Obdicut Thu, Nov 15, 2012 6:16:34am |
re: #447 lostlakehiker
Rice was going off of CIA talking points.
Even if it were the case that they 'knew'-- as in, that they had some reports saying there wasn't a protest-- I do not get your guy's conspiracy theory about this. What is the deal? What is it you're actually suggesting was covered up?
449 | Obdicut Thu, Nov 15, 2012 6:20:14am |
re: #425 NJDhockeyfan
You points don't bother me at all. This is huge news that affects all of us. I will post another one if the IDF releases one.
At least it's better than your previous posting of a video from a raving anti-semite conspiracy theorist, I guess.