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Marco Rubio: Just Another Right Wing Creationist

The Republican Party’s ignorant war on science continues
Politics • Views: 28,994

Bravo to GQ for actually asking a real question about science in their interview of Marco Rubio, and making him state outright that he’s just another anti-science Republican: Marco Rubio Interview.

GQ: How old do you think the Earth is?

Marco Rubio: I’m not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I’m not a scientist. I don’t think I’m qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.

This is pretty much the standard Republican line — ignorance. Admitting you believe in science over the Bible is political suicide for Republicans.

And please note that Rubio is in favor of teaching children to believe this nonsense.

Ever wonder why, after many years leading the world, America is now slipping way behind in science education? All you have to do is read the words of right wingers like Marco Rubio, who perpetuate a Bronze Age view of the universe, pretending it’s just as valid as rational scientific theory.

In the same interview, Rubio says his best friend in politics is … Jim DeMint. A Dominionist religious fundamentalist, and another young earth creationist. The right wing is mortgaging America’s future to these fanatics.

And an even more appalling footnote: Marco Rubio is a member of the Senate Science Committee.

UPDATE at 11/19/12 11:15:11 am

As we reported in 2009, Marco Rubio believes the theory of evolution is “destroying the family,” and compares it to communism: Karl Rove Endorses Creationist Florida Candidate Rubio.

Rubio, a Cuban-American, made a comparison to the strategy employed by the Communist Party in Cuba where schools encouraged children to turn in parents who criticized Fidel Castro.

“Of course, I’m not equating the evolution people with Fidel Castro,” he quickly added, while noting that undermining the family and the church were key means the Communist Party used to gain control in Cuba.

“In order to impose their totalitarian regime, they destroyed the family; they destroyed the faith links that existed in that society,” he said.

Although the evolution issue is “obviously” on a “much smaller scale,” both matters are related to the “fundamental question of who is in charge of the upbringing of children. Is it parents or is it the government? I believe it’s parents. And we should do nothing in government that undermines that relationship.

“And there are parents that passionately believe in this and they should be given the opportunity to teach that to their children without someone undoing it,” Rubio said.

Jump to bottom

278 comments

1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:54:54am

And the republicans seem to think he'd be a savior for them if he ran in 2016...

2 erik_t  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:56:56am

What a pathetic shambling pander of an answer. If you're going to be ignorant, at least own your ignorance.

3 Mich-again  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:57:20am
I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow.

The part where he admits he has no freaking clue what actually creates wealth and prosperity.

4 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:58:13am

He's pandering obviously which makes this all the more pathetic.

5 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:59:38am
I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States.

That would be wrong.

Science and fundamental education is critical to the economic wellbeing of the US. Being ignorant or worse - purposefully ignoring science and verifiable facts about geology, evolution, etc., harms the US economy. Whether it's reducing the number of qualified students who will go ahead and study these areas and advance the science and technology or the costs of ignoring the science and the conclusions (like say global warming and the damage wrought by increased storms, droughts and climate change), it can and does have a tangible effect on the economy.

Rubio's obfuscation on point shows that he really doesn't understand or more likely care about either the economics of science and technology or the costs of pursuing young-earth creationism in classrooms and ignoring science.

6 jaunte  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:00:22am
I'm not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians...

Creationists have pretended for a long time that scientists were just another form of priesthood; his answer plays right along with them.

7 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:01:04am

re: #4 HappyWarrior

He's pandering obviously which makes this all the more pathetic.

I actually don't think he's pandering. He's a genuine creationist, but he's also enough of a politician to know that coming right out and saying it would have some negative consequences. So he tries to straddle the line and avoid telling the truth.

8 Mich-again  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:01:10am

All of the great innovations that have brought civilization this far came from science and technology. To look back now and say, science.. who needs it? is really dumb.

9 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:01:23am

Really if Rubio's your great hope as a party, then I say your party's better off dying off.

10 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:03:08am

re: #8 Mich-again

All of the great innovations that have brought civilization this far came from science and technology. To look back now and say, science.. who needs it? is really dumb.

Exactly. Really, I admit with my humanities background that I don't understand science that well but I know it's importance because I look at life now and compared it with how we've lived throughout history.

11 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:04:21am

re: #7 Charles Johnson

I actually don't think he's pandering. He's a genuine creationist, but he's also enough of a politician to know that coming right out and saying it would have some negative consequences. So he tries to straddle the line and avoid telling the truth.

I don't know. Maybe I'd actually have to hear the interview but he just comes across as pandering to me in the text. Of course, pandering or sincere, whatever, this is still not an attitude we want to see from any elected official.

12 erik_t  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:04:35am

re: #7 Charles Johnson

I actually don't think he's pandering. He's a genuine creationist, but he's also enough of a politician to know that coming right out and saying it would have some negative consequences. So he tries to straddle the line and avoid telling the truth.

I would have said that was the very definition of pandering to whatever remains of a sensible middle. Pat them on the head, use the word 'scientist' once or twice.

13 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:06:20am

re: #11 HappyWarrior

I don't know. Maybe I'd actually have to hear the interview but he just comes across as pandering to me in the text. Of course, pandering or sincere, whatever, this is still not an attitude we want to see from any elected official.

Please see:

Karl Rove Endorses Creationist Florida Candidate Rubio.

Rubio, a Cuban-American, made a comparison to the strategy employed by the Communist Party in Cuba where schools encouraged children to turn in parents who criticized Fidel Castro.

"Of course, I'm not equating the evolution people with Fidel Castro," he quickly added, while noting that undermining the family and the church were key means the Communist Party used to gain control in Cuba.

"In order to impose their totalitarian regime, they destroyed the family; they destroyed the faith links that existed in that society," he said.

Although the evolution issue is "obviously" on a "much smaller scale," both matters are related to the "fundamental question of who is in charge of the upbringing of children. Is it parents or is it the government? I believe it's parents. And we should do nothing in government that undermines that relationship.

"And there are parents that passionately believe in this and they should be given the opportunity to teach that to their children without someone undoing it," Rubio said.

He's not only a creationist, he's one of the kooks who thinks the theory of evolution is destroying democracy.

14 uncah91  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:06:43am

re: #7 Charles Johnson

I actually don't think he's pandering. He's a genuine creationist, but he's also enough of a politician to know that coming right out and saying it would have some negative consequences. So he tries to straddle the line and avoid telling the truth.

I don't know. He's Catholic. Young earth isn't a typical Catholic belief.

15 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:08:57am

Yeah, but he's a brown right-wing creationist. Which means that Republicans are all about tolerance and diversity and you guys are the real racists times a million, no backsies.

16 Mich-again  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:08:59am

What's even more disappointing to me is that Rubio, who proudly identifies as a Catholic, throws his own Catholic faith under the bus to appease to the anti-science willfully ignorant Protestants who make up so much of the GOP base. Catholics do not subscribe to the biblical version of creation so for Rubio to pimp for this shows he is ignorant of Church teaching, or just shamelessly pandering to stupid people.

"The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false."- Thomas Aquinas

17 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:09:04am

He actually sounds just like Romney. Give a multitude of answers to any given question, that way you can say you support just about anything at any given time.

And you know what? He got killed for it. Everybody knew he was a pandering shit who would say he likes kidney stones if he thought it'd get him a few votes. Just say what you believe and get it over with.

18 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:10:06am

re: #14 uncah91

I don't know. He's Catholic. Young earth isn't a typical Catholic belief.

That's why I think there may be some pandering here but on the other hand, as Charles's link to Rove endorsing Rubio and Rubio equating teaching evolution to Castro's education policies makes me think he could be a true nut. I don't know. I do know this much from reading about Marco Rubio and it's I don't want him anywhere near the presidency.

19 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:12:03am

Science!

Let me consult my cleric.

20 jaunte  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:12:21am
Although the evolution issue is "obviously" on a "much smaller scale," both matters are related to the "fundamental question of who is in charge of the upbringing of children. Is it parents or is it the government? I believe it's parents. And we should do nothing in government that undermines that relationship.

Science education leads to critical thinking, leads to questioning assumptions.

21 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:13:00am

re: #7 Charles Johnson

I actually don't think he's pandering. He's a genuine creationist, but he's also enough of a politician to know that coming right out and saying it would have some negative consequences. So he tries to straddle the line and avoid telling the truth.

And this may just be sloppy speaking on his part, but he seems to be saying that the line he's straddling is the one between literal 24-hour Genesis days and the day-age theory. In either case he's not entertaining the possibility that the Bible might simply not be a good guide to this complex and technical subject.

22 GunstarGreen  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:13:17am

GQ: What do you think the sum of one and two is?

Rubio: I'm not a mathematician, man. I think that's a debate amongst theologians...

23 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:13:34am

The World according to the BareNaked Ladies

Our whole universe was in a hot dense state,
Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started. Wait...
The Earth began to cool,

24 Bulworth  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:14:26am
And an even more appalling footnote: Marco Rubio is a member of the Senate Science Committee.

Ah, well, of course. /

25 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:14:34am

re: #16 Mich-again

What's even more disappointing to me is that Rubio, who proudly identifies as a Catholic, throws his own Catholic faith under the bus to appease to the anti-science willfully ignorant Protestants who make up so much of the GOP base. Catholics do not subscribe to the biblical version of creation so for Rubio to pimp for this shows he is ignorant of Church teaching, or just shamelessly pandering to stupid people.

Yep, that's part of why I think he is pandering. Even some of the most conservative Catholics I know accept that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and don't see Darwin's theories as inconsistent with their religious beliefs. But the Christian fundamentalists who make up a lot of Rubio's base on the other hand.

26 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:14:58am

re: #13 Charles Johnson

"And there are parents that passionately believe in this and they should be given the opportunity to teach that to their children without someone undoing it," Rubio said.

So schools should never be able to teach any subject that undermines anything any parent passionately believes? And that would leave...what, exactly? Gym class?

27 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:15:21am

Marco Rubio: Pandering Moron

28 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:15:39am

re: #24 Bulworth

Ah, well, of course. /

It's almost like they try to find the most scientifically ignorant people in their caucus and put them on the science committees in the House and Senate.

29 jaunte  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:16:02am

Fox Fan email just in:
Image: Screen_shot_2012-11-19_at_1.14.28_PM.png
Benghazi horsebeating not over.

30 Bulworth  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:16:23am
GQ: How old do you think the Earth is?

Marco Rubio: I’m not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that’s a dispute amongst theologians

Is there a particular reason, I wonder, why one would refer to theologians when asked the age of the earth?

31 uncah91  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:16:29am

re: #18 HappyWarrior

That's why I think there may be some pandering here but on the other hand, as Charles's link to Rove endorsing Rubio and Rubio equating teaching evolution to Castro's education policies makes me think he could be a true nut. I don't know. I do know this much from reading about Marco Rubio and it's I don't want him anywhere near the presidency.

I don't want him anywhere near the presidency, but to me he sounds like he is just "concern trolling" in a way. Kinds of like the typical answer to the sex-ed question, he just wants parents to be in control of whether their kids get an education or not.

32 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:16:58am

re: #26 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

So schools should never be able to teach any subject that undermines anything any parent passionately believes. And that would leave...what,exactly? Gym class?

Have you seen some of their voters? I don't think gym would make the cut. Hell, it would probably be the first thing to go, followed by science, foreign languages, and then English. Home Ec for the ladies and Shop for the boys. That's all that remains.

33 Ian G.  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:17:05am

And we have to hear this in a country that is becoming rapidly more secular.

I'm a 32-year-old Catholic-turned-atheist. I have a lot of problems with the GOP, but the biggest one begins and ends with the rejection of the scientific method in all walks of life, whether it be cosmology or climate science or even macroeconomics (it would appears that global economic events of the last 4 years validates loose fiscal monetary policy given the relative strength of the US economy over the austerity-laden EU zone).

Until the GOP starts to base its policy positions on reason and evidence and not blind dogma, it will never have my vote. And given how well the GOP brand is doing with my younger, secular cohorts, I'm apparently not alone here.

34 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:17:09am

re: #25 HappyWarrior

the earth is 4.5 billion years old

4.54 billion years old.....just satisfying the engineer in me

35 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:17:20am

re: #26 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

So schools should never be able to teach any subject that undermines anything any parent passionately believes. And that would leave...what,exactly? Gym class?

NO, I BELIEVE THE PACER TEST IS AGAINST THE BIBLE, NO WAY WILL YOU MAKE MY CHILD RUN THAT. Heh exactly though. The "undermines parents beliefs" excuse could be used from anything from science and evolution to something like to English class and a novel where the parent objects to the novel's message.

36 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:17:54am

re: #26 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

So schools should never be able to teach any subject that undermines anything any parent passionately believes? And that would leave...what, exactly? Gym class?

I'll be damned if my kids have to play dodgeball......so gym is out too.

37 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:18:00am

re: #34 Big Steve

4.54 billion years old.....just satisfying the engineer in me

I know it's 4.54. I just gave a more rounder number.

38 Tumulus11  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:18:04am

. Unfathomable mysteries of science:

'Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.'
// Marco Rubio

' ... How'd the moon get there? How'd the sun get there? How'd it get there? Can you explain that to me? How come we have that and Mars doesn't have it? ...'
// Bill O'Reilly

39 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:19:13am

re: #36 Big Steve

I'll be damned if my kids have to play dodgeball......so gym is out too.

"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball."

40 prairiefire  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:19:13am

Looking forward to the future Matt Taibbi evisceration.

41 Bulworth  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:19:29am
' ... How'd the moon get there? How'd the sun get there? How'd it get there? Can you explain that to me? How come we have that and Mars doesn't have it? ...'
// Bill O'Reilly

You can't explain that! /

42 jaunte  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:19:44am

re: #30 Bulworth

Is there a particular reason, I wonder, why one would refer to theologians when asked the age of the earth?

It's popular among creationists to pretend that evolutionary biology is just another unsupported belief.

43 Skip Intro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:19:53am

re: #13 Charles Johnson

Please see:

Karl Rove Endorses Creationist Florida Candidate Rubio.

He's not only a creationist, he's one of the kooks who thinks the theory of evolution is destroying democracy.

Lately I've been seeing posts by creationists trying to tie the age of the earth/universe to evolution, and since evolution is wrong (they say), it logically follows that so is the age of the earth.

The only explanation that comes to mind is that they're even more ignorant about science than I thought.

44 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:20:13am

re: #37 HappyWarrior

I know it's 4.54. I just gave a more rounder number.

Ah, a humanities major...

/

45 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:20:35am

re: #44 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

Ah, a humanities major...

/

lol

46 erik_t  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:20:53am

re: #37 HappyWarrior

I know it's 4.54. I just gave a more rounder number.

In nearly any context, the trailing four is not useful.

47 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:21:00am

re: #44 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

Ah, a humanities major...

/

History major and English minor to be precise.

48 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:21:19am

Creationism has joined abortion and the Tax Pledge as part of the TP/GOP litmus test.

49 Ian G.  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:21:34am

re: #16 Mich-again

I never know whether to laugh or cry when I read that quote from Thomas Aquinas. Someone alive 800 years ago in the supposed "Dark Ages" understood how the world works better than 1/2 the people in the 21st century's greatest superpower.

50 uncah91  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:21:50am

re: #33 Ian G.

I'm a 32-year-old Catholic-turned-atheist.

Not that I'm criticizing anyone who turns away from "faith", but it is precisely this fact that is turning most religious organizations into more dogmatic organizations.

It's not that all religious believers are moderating, but rather that religious belief is bifurcating into former believers and true believers.

51 Skip Intro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:21:56am

re: #14 uncah91

Young earth isn't a typical Catholic belief.

No, it's not. With regard to science, Catholics are the only religious adults in the room, since they've been burned so many times about it in the past.

52 jaunte  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:22:50am

re: #48 Sol Berdinowitz

Creationism has joined abortion and the Tax Pledge as a TP/GOP litmus test.

Grover Norquist Never Evolves

53 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:23:42am

Unfortunately, folks, there's a fundamentalist strain of Catholicism that does espouse young earth creationism. One of the most public proponents of this insanity: Rick Santorum.

54 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:23:55am

re: #49 Ian G.

I never know whether to laugh or cry when I read that quote from Thomas Aquinas. Someone alive 800 years ago in the supposed "Dark Ages" understood how the world works better than 1/2 the people in the 21st century's greatest superpower.

I think that's what frustrates me when it comes down to it. And you see it a lot in history all the time. The Radical Republicans of the 1860's were more progressive in their political mindset than the Dixiecrats of the 1940's and 1950's.

55 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:24:12am

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Unfortunately, folks, there's a fundamentalist strain of Catholicism that does espouse young earth creationism. One of the most public proponents of this insanity: Rick Santorum.

They confuse the shit out of me by doing so, because that's borderline heretical.

56 uncah91  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:24:47am

re: #51 Skip Intro

No, it's not. With regard to science, Catholics are the only religious adults in the room, since they've been burned so many times about it in the past.

It's more than that.

As the only institution in the west devoted to intellectual pursuits (for hundreds of years) it was the seat of science until the enlightenment (as well as anti-science dogma).

57 erik_t  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:25:29am

re: #55 Obdicut

They confuse the shit out of me by doing so, because that's borderline heretical.

But, but, cafeteria.... something!

They're reliable contributors and voters, so Rome would never try to piss them off.

58 Big Steve  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:26:23am

So when Big Steve was only middle sized Steve and in college getting a philosophy degree, the department offered a class in the "Philosophy of the Bible". It was a senior level class so we had to take it for grade but the U opened it up for anyone else to take pass/fail without prerequisites. So there were hundreds in the class (very unsettling for philosophy majors used to class size of 10). Anyway they had a guest professor who was in real life a Lutheran minister. The class was popular with the "Jesus Freak" crowd back then and the professor knew this. The first day of class he explained his background as a minister and stated that he would avoid preaching at all costs and then he announced that "if you are offended, when studying the Bible, if you heard the lecturer occasionally use the term 'myth or legend', you should bring your drop slip to the next class."

59 uncah91  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:26:57am

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Unfortunately, folks, there's a fundamentalist strain of Catholicism that does espouse young earth creationism. One of the most public proponents of this insanity: Rick Santorum.

That is true, but that is more of a mid-western thing, isn't it? Where the Catholic church is already struggling with membership.

I don't think it is typical of the Hispanic Catholics.

60 Ian G.  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:27:09am

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Santorum is just as much a "Cafeteria Catholic" as any Catholic woman who used contraception. It's just that the teaching he rejects have to do with things like compassion for the poor, just war, and scientific inquiry.

And the rotten hierarchy starting with Benedict XVI turns a blind eye to Santorum's heresy while condemning anyone in favor of contraceptives use or gay marriage.

61 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:28:17am

re: #60 Ian G.

Santorum is just as much a "Cafeteria Catholic" as any Catholic woman who used contraception. It's just that the teaching he rejects have to do with things like compassion for the poor, just war, and scientific inquiry.

And the rotten hierarchy starting with Benedict XVI turns a blind eye to Santorum's heresy while condemning anyone in favor of contraceptives use or gay marriage.

There certainly are a lot of double standards. You never hear of politicians who clamor for war being threatened with being denied communion like you do pro choice ones.

62 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:28:23am

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Unfortunately, folks, there's a fundamentalist strain of Catholicism that does espouse young earth creationism. One of the most public proponents of this insanity: Rick Santorum.

Was it he or Rick Perry who tried to liken the situation of Creationists in America with that of Gallileo?

63 dragonath  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:28:39am

re: #55 Obdicut

They confuse the shit out of me by doing so, because that's borderline heretical.

There's a schismatic church up the road.

Some dude is speaking a language people don't understand, and then pronouncing it wrong. That's what Catholic fundamentalists want to go back to.

The mind boggles.

64 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:31:52am

Joni Lamb: America is a Christian Nation and if You Don't Like it, 'You Shouldn't Live Here'

Recently, Kelly Shackelford of Liberty Institute appeared on the Christian television program "Joni" along with David Barton to discuss the report that Liberty Institute and the Family Research Council released entitled "The Survey on Religious Hostility in America."

During the discussion, Shackelford mentioned a legal fight that took place in Texas last year over a high-school valedictorian who wanted to say a prayer during her graduation speech. The student ultimately won the right to do so, which prompted host Joni Lamb to declare it a victory for free speech, saying "that if you live in America and you understand that we are a Christian society then you can't be offended by things like that or you shouldn't live here":

65 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:32:10am

re: #62 Sol Berdinowitz

Was it he or Rick Perry who tried to liken the situation of Creationists in America with that of Gallileo?

Perry I believe.

66 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:33:28am

re: #64 Kragar

Joni Lamb: America is a Christian Nation and if You Don't Like it, 'You Shouldn't Live Here'

Like wise, if you're offended by gay people getting married, Joni, you should get out of here too.

67 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:33:56am

re: #63 dragonath

There's a schismatic church up the road.

Some dude is speaking a language people don't understand, and then pronouncing it wrong. That's what Catholic fundamentalists want to go back to.

The mind boggles.

If you asked my Franciscan priest/Biology instructor if it was possible that the earth was laid out in 6 days 6000 years ago, he would say it was theologically possible. And he would call you an idiot while he flunked you.

68 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:35:12am

re: #66 HappyWarrior

Like wise, if you're offended by gay people getting married, Joni, you should get out of here too.

If you're offended by a black man being elected into the White House, you should get out of the United States.

69 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:35:42am

It's not just Catholics. Each Friday some nice young Jewish Chabad men come to my office and often times do Tefillin with my boss. They openly espouse Creationism as per genesis, and have described fossils and the like as a test of our faith in the bible. I guess at least some Jewish orthodoxy still hangs in there.

71 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:38:23am

I'm more impressed by a God who slowly crafts the Universe over billions of years and through methods we can discover using the powers of logic and reason than by a God who says "POOF! WORLDS DONE!" and tells you that you'll burn forever if you question how he did it.

72 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:39:56am

re: #71 Kragar

I'm more impressed by a God who slowly crafts the Universe over billions of years and through methods we can discover using the powers of logic and reason than by a God who says "POOF! WORLDS DONE!" and tells you that you'll burn forever if you question how he did it.

Yep.

73 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:41:09am

re: #51 Skip Intro

No, it's not. With regard to science, Catholics are the only religious adults in the room, since they've been burned so many times about it in the past.

Oh really? UUs? Anglican/Episcopalians?

74 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:42:22am

A Jesuit priest/paleontologist currently on the good side of Benedict XVI:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I particularly like that he got the Legion of Honor for courage under fire in WWI. Things People are never as simple as they seem.

75 dragonath  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:43:19am
76 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:45:29am

The latest Krugman polemic-
"The Twinkie Manifesto" (no that's not my snark it's his title) Bring back the 91% tax rate for the rich. As if nothing else has changed in our economy since the 1950's. Why 91%? Well because that's why. No math, no Laffer curve, no arthmentic revenue argument at all. Come on Paul I'll give you a read. But back it up with something more than emotions please. Why not 92% Or 90%? Or WTH?

I'll agree the wealthy can pay more. But pulling numbers arbitrarily from economic ancient history is just not persuasive. John Kennedy had it right. Heck even the Reagan era tax charts put us in good shape.

77 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:48:09am

Rubio is a either a nutjob Creationist or he's a shameless, pandering liar.

Lucky for us, he's also the target of the birther lunatics:

GOP 'SUPERSTAR' FOR VP FACES ELIGIBILITY QUESTIONS (Google cache link)

78 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:49:38am

re: #26 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

So schools should never be able to teach any subject that undermines anything any parent passionately believes? And that would leave...what, exactly? Gym class?

Hmm. I should have told my gym teacher that my parents opposed rope climbing because it led to Hinduism and attempting to charm snakes...
/// ;p

79 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:52:38am

re: #43 Skip Intro

Lately I've been seeing posts by creationists trying to tie the age of the earth/universe to evolution, and since evolution is wrong (they say), it logically follows that so is the age of the earth.

The only explanation that comes to mind is that they're even more ignorant about science than I thought.

It's the "holy book" model of confrontation. If you refute any part of their holy book or articles of faith then you have proved it all false.

It's logical, but with a totally different (and arguably odd) set of starting axioms.

80 DisturbedEma  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:52:47am

I thought today would be better news wise I see I was wrong

81 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:53:06am

re: #76 Daniel Ballard

The latest Krugman polemic-
"The Twinkie Manifesto" (no that's not my snark it's his title) Bring back the 91% tax rate for the rich. As if nothing else has changed in our economy since the 1950's. Why 91%? Well because that's why. No math, no Laffer curve, no arthmentic revenue argument at all. Come on Paul I'll give you a read. But back it up with something more than emotions please. Why not 92% Or 90%? Or WTH?

I'll agree the wealthy can pay more. But pulling numbers arbitrarily from economic ancient history is just not persuasive. John Kennedy had it right. Heck even the Reagan era tax charts put us in good shape.

I don't think he's advocating specific tax rates, just pointing out that raising tax rates on high earners would (a) have beneficial social consequences and (b) not crash the economy. The performance of the 1950's economy is a handy rebuttal to the tax-hike doomsayers.

82 Mich-again  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:54:54am

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Unfortunately, folks, there's a fundamentalist strain of Catholicism that does espouse young earth creationism. One of the most public proponents of this insanity: Rick Santorum.

Aquinas had a thing or two to say about heretics as well.

83 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:56:22am

re: #71 Kragar

I'm more impressed by a God who slowly crafts the Universe over billions of years and through methods we can discover using the powers of logic and reason than by a God who says "POOF! WORLDS DONE!" and tells you that you'll burn forever if you question how he did it.

I think he forgot to pre-heat the universe properly and that is why we came out half-baked.
/ ;)

84 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:57:25am

Once again, Buck gets hysterically outraged over "fauxtography" and demands for a BBC reporter to be fired, without bothering to note that the reporter publicly admitted he made a mistake and apologized.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

This kind of stuff is beginning to get on my last nerve.

85 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 11:58:27am

re: #81 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

I don't think he's advocating specific tax rates, just pointing out that raising tax rates on high earners would (a) have beneficial social consequences and (b) not crash the economy. The performance of the 1950's economy is a handy rebuttal to the tax-hike doomsayers.

The 1950's economy also benefited from all that work in the early 1940s destroying everyone else's industry and infrastructure.
/

86 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:06:26pm

As an adult you have two basic choices; you can believe that beliefs form reality or you can believe reality forms beliefs.

Your belief that the universe is 6000 years old has absolutely no impact on its age. Nor does my belief that it is 14 billion years old. However, the universe does have an objective age, even though our inability to pinpoint that age leaves us with an approximation.

Science was developed to remove or test beliefs and to give us approximate but reliable insights into physical reality.

That system trumps belief every time. Get used to it.

87 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:09:36pm

re: #84 Charles Johnson

Once again, Buck gets hysterically outraged over "fauxtography" and demands for a BBC reporter to be fired, without bothering to note that the reporter publicly admitted he made a mistake and apologized.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

This kind of stuff is beginning to get on my last nerve.

Buck being Buck. "Donnison should resign or face disciplinary action!" And the rest of them? Fire Jon Donnison for a Tweet or an error? What is this the Soviet Union? When a journalist makes an error that hurts the state we're supposed to remove them from that position? This is a tyrannical state of mind. There's an irony here too. While these wingnuts are getting their panties in a twist over at BBC Watch many people are now saying that BBC News is biased against Gaza. Which is it?

88 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:11:23pm

re: #76 Daniel Ballard

The latest Krugman polemic-
"The Twinkie Manifesto" (no that's not my snark it's his title) Bring back the 91% tax rate for the rich. As if nothing else has changed in our economy since the 1950's. Why 91%? Well because that's why. No math, no Laffer curve, no arthmentic revenue argument at all. Come on Paul I'll give you a read. But back it up with something more than emotions please. Why not 92% Or 90%? Or WTH?

I'll agree the wealthy can pay more. But pulling numbers arbitrarily from economic ancient history is just not persuasive. John Kennedy had it right. Heck even the Reagan era tax charts put us in good shape.

Where did he say the tax rate should go back up to 91%

89 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:12:41pm

re: #87 Gus

I'm debating whether posts like that should be deleted, actually. He's actively trying to spread a false story and hurt someone's career.

90 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:14:13pm
Although the evolution issue is “obviously” on a “much smaller scale,” both matters are related to the “fundamental question of who is in charge of the upbringing of children. Is it parents or is it the government? I believe it’s parents. And we should do nothing in government that undermines that relationship.

“And there are parents that passionately believe in this and they should be given the opportunity to teach that to their children without someone undoing it,” Rubio said.

Your damn right Marco! My baby don't need to believe in none of that made up stuff like biology, astronomy, astrophysics, or geology! She can learn all she ever needs to know right between the covers of the Good Book. You think I'd send my baby off to one of them elitist ivory tower schools so they can fill her head with that kind of nonsense? They ain't gonna be turning my child into no slutty godless socialist no-siree Bob, my baby is gonna grow up in the Lord!!! She's gonna stay right here in Podunk with her family and her church and grow up to earn an honest wage as a cashier at Walmart just like her momma!

91 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:14:20pm

re: #89 Charles Johnson

I'm debating whether posts like that should be deleted, actually. He's actively trying to spread a false story and hurt someone's career.

Can you de-vowel them? Or better yet, de-consonant them?

92 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:15:15pm

re: #91 b_Snark

Can you de-vowel them? Or better yet, de-consonant them?

Change it over to a wingnut font and lock it. //

93 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:15:20pm

re: #88 b_Snark

Where did he say the tax rate should go back up to 91%

His last few lines were, "America in the 1950s made the rich pay their fair share; it gave workers the power to bargain for decent wages and benefits; yet contrary to right-wing propaganda then and now, it prospered. And we can do that again. "

That at a minimum implies raising tax rates on the upper income brackets. Getting it back to the 1950s levels with it's 91% rate could be held as an implication as well. Though I expect if asked he would probably not espouse exactly that number.

94 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:18:05pm

re: #89 Charles Johnson

I'm debating whether posts like that should be deleted, actually. He's actively to spread a false story and hurt someone's career.

CiF and BBC Watch are both lying when they say it was "broadcast." It wasn't a broadcast it was a Tweet.

95 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:20:04pm

re: #90 watching you tiny alien kittens are

The question comes down to ownership. The authoritarian right believes they own their children and in their world ownership means they can make any modifications they want, even if those modifications reduce the ability of their car children to contribute to society.

96 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:20:33pm

re: #93 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

His last few lines were, "America in the 1950s made the rich pay their fair share; it gave workers the power to bargain for decent wages and benefits; yet contrary to right-wing propaganda then and now, it prospered. And we can do that again. "

That at a minimum implies raising tax rates on the upper income brackets. Getting it back to the 1950s levels with it's 91% rate could be held as an implication as well. Though I expect if asked he would probably not espouse exactly that number.

I don't think it was an argument for raising taxes as much as it being a counter-argument against those who claim even the smallest of taxes on the "jerb creators" will kill the economy.

97 dragonfire1981  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:22:46pm

re: #66 HappyWarrior

Like wise, if you're offended by gay people getting married, Joni, you should get out of here too.

Sadly, my first thought on seeing that was "How in the heck does David Barton keep finding work?"

98 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:25:23pm

Tweet from little known BBC correspondent done in error and later "corrected" creates irreversible damage!

Sociopathic and evil editorial in the leading Israeli paper, JPost, by the son of the former Israeli PM, understandable.

Got it.

99 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:26:16pm

re: #93 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

His last few lines were, "America in the 1950s made the rich pay their fair share; it gave workers the power to bargain for decent wages and benefits; yet contrary to right-wing propaganda then and now, it prospered. And we can do that again. "

That at a minimum implies raising tax rates on the upper income brackets. Getting it back to the 1950s levels with it's 91% rate could be held as an implication as well. Though I expect if asked he would probably not espouse exactly that number.

I think the 91% rate inference is wrong.
The point he made was that having the top 1% pay more than they do now did not condemn US society to massive hardships but instead contributed to an affluent and mobile middle class. An America with a prosperous middle class is what he is referring to when he says "And we can do that again".

100 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:26:50pm

re: #93 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

His last few lines were, "America in the 1950s made the rich pay their fair share; it gave workers the power to bargain for decent wages and benefits; yet contrary to right-wing propaganda then and now, it prospered. And we can do that again. "

That at a minimum implies raising tax rates on the upper income brackets. Getting it back to the 1950s levels with it's 91% rate could be held as an implication as well. Though I expect if asked he would probably not espouse exactly that number.

Uh, I think he was talking about the 'giving workers the power to bargain for decent wages and prospering' bits.

101 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:28:26pm

re: #98 Gus

First, I condemn Hamas for everything they've said and done! They're EEEEEVIL!

Tweet from little known BBC correspondent done in error and later "corrected" creates irreversible damage!

Sociopathic and evil editorial in the leading Israeli paper, JPost, by the son of the former Israeli PM, understandable.

Got it.

Fixed that for you buddy.

102 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:29:41pm

re: #98 Gus

Tweet from little known BBC correspondent done in error and later "corrected" creates irreversible damage!

Sociopathic and evil editorial in the leading Israeli paper, JPost, by the son of the former Israeli PM, understandable.

Got it.

He re-tweeted a picture by mistake, then tweeted a clear apology when he realized it.

For this, he must burn in the fires of hell forever.

103 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:29:45pm

re: #101 Ghost of Tom Joad

Fixed that for you buddy.

Thanks. Clearly that comment shows that I support Hamas.

//

104 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:29:53pm

There is a knack to reading left-wing screeds that the right really has to learn.

105 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:31:29pm

re: #88 b_Snark

This
Needless to say, it wasn’t really innocent. But the ’50s — the Twinkie Era — do offer lessons that remain relevant in the 21st century. Above all, the success of the postwar American economy demonstrates that, contrary to today’s conservative orthodoxy, you can have prosperity without demeaning workers and coddling the rich.

Then this

Yet in the 1950s incomes in the top bracket faced a marginal tax rate of 91, that’s right, 91 percent, ....

And no mention at all of what other number if any he would like. For extended context, ponder what the deficit would look like if his oft cited contention the stim should have been 3x larger.

So yeah to pay for that I would think he implies that's what it would take to balance the emotions as related to the budget. He makes no mention of justifying the math, so I call his argument emotional instead of factual.

Where is the math? I'd love to see that from any of the tax advocates-Where is the revenue/economic sweet spot for the tax rates?

106 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:33:03pm

re: #104 b_Snark

There is a knack to reading left-wing screeds that the right really has to learn.

I'll take analysis over the screeds anytime. :-)

107 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:33:20pm

re: #100 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

Uh, I think he was talking about the 'giving workers the power to bargain for decent wages and prospering' bits.

The other half of that sentence was "made the rich pay their fair share". I suspect he is advocating doing both.

Going straight to "he is advocating a 91% tax rate" is a fairly large leap. I concur with b_snark on that. Though I think "we can do that again" is also more than just getting a prosperous middle class back.

108 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:33:20pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

He re-tweeted a picture by mistake, then tweeted a clear apology when he realized it.

For this, he must burn in the fires of hell forever.

Think I re-Tweeted a few. I'm doomed! Glad everyone on Twitter isn't spreading any false information or spreading mis-attributed images. Never happens but when it does the perpetrators must be punished!

109 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:34:10pm

Context context context.
Context context context.
Context context context.
Context context context.
Context.

Keep them doggies rollin'
Context.

110 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:34:20pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

He re-tweeted a picture by mistake, then tweeted a clear apology when he realized it.

For this, he must burn in the fires of hell forever.

Thats actually pretty standard.
/

111 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:34:24pm

re: #108 Gus

Think I re-Tweeted a few. I'm doomed! Glad everyone on Twitter isn't spreading any false information or spreading mis-attributed images. Never happens but when it does the perpetrators must be punished!

Strange. I thought all that you ever tweeted was plane pr0n.
/// ;p

112 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:34:54pm

re: #106 Daniel Ballard

I'll take analysis over the screeds anytime. :-)

But I have a pocket full of screeds.

113 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:35:07pm


WTF is he whining about? I was totally not "silent" on that thread.

I must totally be a "self hater" and a "Hamas lover" woo woo

114 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:35:56pm

re: #111 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Strange. I thought all that you ever tweeted was plane pr0n.
/// ;p

Yes, but some of it was misattributed plane pr0n.

!!!

115 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:37:38pm

re: #105 Daniel Ballard

It's a very false conclusion to draw that because he said that rates were AS high as 91%, that he wants that rate again. Come on.

And no mention at all of what other number if any he would like. For extended context, ponder what the deficit would look like if his oft cited contention the stim should have been 3x larger.

How big do you think the deficit would be?

116 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:37:48pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]


WTF is he whining about? I was totally not "silent" on that thread.

I must totally be a "self hater" and a "Hamas lover" woo woo

I was trying to figure that out. What silence?

117 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:38:01pm

re: #114 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society

Yes, but some of it was misattributed plane pr0n.

!!!

Thwack!

118 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:38:22pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]


WTF is he whining about? I was totally not "silent" on that thread.

I must totally be a "self hater" and a "Hamas lover" woo woo

By my count you have almost two dozen comments in that thread.

I guess that's not enough and you need to do more, otherwise you hate Israel or something. =P

119 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:38:39pm

re: #111 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Strange. I thought all that you ever tweeted was plane pr0n.
/// ;p

B17, B24, B29
Sounds more like Bingo pr0n.

120 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:38:43pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]


WTF is he whining about? I was totally not "silent" on that thread.

I must totally be a "self hater" and a "Hamas lover" woo woo

What a creep. It's pretty obvious why he's trying to pressure you to fall in line.

121 Bulworth  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:39:32pm
“Of course, I’m not equating the evolution people with Fidel Castro

"the evolution people"

Shakes head

122 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:39:46pm

Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks.

There. Are we clear?

123 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:40:53pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]


WTF is he whining about? I was totally not "silent" on that thread.

I must totally be a "self hater" and a "Hamas lover" woo woo

Probably thinks a babuska is some sort of stealth hijab garment. Maybe you should switch names to "Vicious Wimple".
;)

(Yes I know that "babuska" is actually of Eastern European extraction from the word for "grandmother".)

124 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:40:55pm

re: #116 Gus

I was trying to figure that out. What silence?

Probably because I didn't jump all over you when you said "So what if it is staged? It doesn't cancel out real civilian casualties" or something like that.

125 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:41:18pm

re: #122 Gus

Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks.

There. Are we clear?

Clearly not sufficient!

126 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:41:22pm

re: #107 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

I would content that saying "fair share" as an economics expert is pretty empty rhetoric until you at least estimate what that might be. So for discussion-What tax charts are best today (trick question, past rates may not be correct at all)
Eisenhower? Kennedy? Reagan? Clinton? HW Bush? I advocate the Clinton era in as much as that's the only choices.

Somebody show me the math that points to the best tax rates for growth today please. Frankly I think 1950's tax rates are about as relevant as Ozzie and Harriets lifestyle today. Great if you like it, but that's most of a lifetime ago. Heck who decides how much should be individual vs corporate tax? What's best? Show me.

127 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:41:22pm

re: #105 Daniel Ballard

This
Needless to say, it wasn’t really innocent. But the ’50s — the Twinkie Era — do offer lessons that remain relevant in the 21st century. Above all, the success of the postwar American economy demonstrates that, contrary to today’s conservative orthodoxy, you can have prosperity without demeaning workers and coddling the rich.

Then this

Yet in the 1950s incomes in the top bracket faced a marginal tax rate of 91, that’s right, 91 percent, ....

And no mention at all of what other number if any he would like. For extended context, ponder what the deficit would look like if his oft cited contention the stim should have been 3x larger.

So yeah to pay for that I would think he implies that's what it would take to balance the emotions as related to the budget. He makes no mention of justifying the math, so I call his argument emotional instead of factual.

Where is the math? I'd love to see that from any of the tax advocates-Where is the revenue/economic sweet spot for the tax rates?

He wasn't using the 91% figure as one he would like, he was using it as an extreme to show that even when the taxes were that high, the US did not suffer disaster as the trickle-down advocates insist would happen.

128 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:41:36pm

re: #122 Gus

Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks.

There. Are we clear?

That sounds pro Hamas.

129 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:41:38pm

re: #123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

Probably thinks a babuska is some sort of stealth hijab garment. Maybe you should switch names to "Vicious Wimple".
;)

(Yes I know that "babuska" is actually of Eastern European extraction from the word for "grandmother".)

"Vicious Shaitel" just doesn't have the same pizzazz.

130 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:42:02pm

re: #126 Daniel Ballard

Why don't you show me?

131 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:42:39pm

re: #122 Gus

Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks.

There. Are we clear?

Why are you trying to ignore Benghazi?

132 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:43:12pm

re: #122 Gus

Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks.

There. Are we clear?

I'm sorry, what are you trying to say?

133 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:43:28pm

re: #126 Daniel Ballard

I would content that saying "fair share" as an economics expert is pretty empty rhetoric until you at least estimate what that might be. So for discussion-What tax charts are best today (trick question, past rates may not be correct at all)
Eisenhower? Kennedy? Reagan? Clinton? HW Bush? I advocate the Clinton era in as much as that's the only choices.

Somebody show me the math that points to the best tax rates for growth today please. Frankly I think 1950's tax rates are about as relevant as Ozzie and Harriets lifestyle today. Great if you like it, but that's most of a lifetime ago. Heck who decides how much should be individual vs corporate tax? What's best? Show me.

Clinton era for me as well because it's recent and showed it works. To me the 1950's one just wouldn't work. Plus I see Hollende's plan in France which I believe proposes 70% on top earners as being as extreme as austerity, just another side of the coin.

134 allegro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:43:29pm

re: #126 Daniel Ballard

What's best? Show me.

42

135 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:43:36pm

re: #131 Kragar

Why are you trying to ignore Benghazi?

I'm not saying it was Benghazi but it was Benghazi.

136 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:43:48pm

re: #132 b_Snark

I'm sorry, what are you trying to say?

Simple translation: It's Obama's fault.
///

137 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:43:57pm

re: #132 b_Snark

I'm sorry, what are you trying to say?

Hummus sucks.

138 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:44:18pm

re: #135 Gus

I'm not saying it was Benghazi but it was Benghazi.

And aliens.

139 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:44:31pm

re: #122 Gus

Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks.

There. Are we clear?

It's been nearly five minutes since you said Hamas sucked. Clearly your heart isn't in it.

140 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:44:33pm

re: #137 Varek Raith

Hummus sucks.

Only if you wade into a big enough pool of it.

141 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:44:37pm

re: #137 Varek Raith

Hummus sucks.

Heresy.

142 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:44:45pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

And aliens.

Next on the History Channel.

143 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:45:16pm

re: #142 Gus

Next on the History Channel.

Right after Rednecks doing stuff.

144 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:45:26pm

Speaking of media correction, CNN updated their coverage of the dead baby story from last week
Hamas wants end to blockade in cease-fire talks, official says

Israel also said Sunday that it was not to blame for the death of a Palestinian child last week -- a 4-year-old boy whose lifeless body was kissed by Egyptian Prime Minister Hesham Kandil during his visit to a Gaza hospital Friday.

CNN visited the child's home, which neighbors said had been bombed five hours previously. Neighbors and family members told CNN they heard an aircraft before the explosion.

But the Israeli military told CNN on Sunday it did not carry out any airstrikes at the time of the child's death. The IDF said had stopped its attacks for Kandil's visit, raising questions about what caused the fatal blast. One possibility could be the misfire of a Hamas rocket intended for Israel, since CNN's crew in Gaza said it saw two such rockets passing overhead -- apparently fired not far from where the boy lived.

Kind of buried in the middle of an article but I suppose it's better than no correction at all.

145 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:45:29pm

re: #142 Gus

Next on the History Channel.

Hitler and Aliens.
Ancient Hitler Aliens.
Ancient WW2 Alien Hitlers Pawn Shop.

146 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:45:36pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Pretty close to adding exactly the difference in the stim. Maybe as little as 75% of it given credit for some modest increase in good paying jobs. Maybe dollar for dollar, I'm not convinced that was going to work that much better than the stim we had.

147 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:45:47pm

I am much more pissed at the scumbag who tweeted a picture of the Sharf baby and claimed it was "Palestinian" but hey, it's freaking Twitter, morons gonna tweet.

148 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:45:47pm

re: #135 Gus

I'm not saying it was Benghazi but it was Benghazi.

But clearly you approve of Hamas because you didn't mention it in that statement.

149 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:46:11pm

re: #137 Varek Raith

Hummus sucks.

For a second I thought he meant that humus sucks. I would never be able to garden again.

150 Sophist is the VillageGreen Preservation Society  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:46:21pm

re: #145 Varek Raith

Ancient WW2 Alien Hitlers Pawn Shop.

I would watch the hell out of that.

151 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:46:32pm

re: #145 Varek Raith

Hitler and Aliens.
Ancient Hitler Aliens.
Ancient WW2 Alien Hitlers Pawn Shop.

Or Did Nostradamus Foresee Shows About Pawnshops.

152 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:49:06pm

re: #147 Vicious Babushka

I am much more pissed at the scumbag who tweeted a picture of the Sharf baby and claimed it was "Palestinian" but hey, it's freaking Twitter, morons gonna tweet.

For me that's the issue. We all know that twitter isn't a very reliable source for accurate news. Most of us following these stories already know which images are fake or misrepresented, I would expect a little more due diligence from professional journalists.

153 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:49:14pm

State Department spokesperson bitchslaps Associated Press bigmouth

154 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:49:17pm

re: #122 Gus

Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks.

There. Are we clear?

not enough dude

155 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:49:18pm

re: #145 Varek Raith

Hitler and Aliens.
Ancient Hitler Aliens.
Ancient WW2 Alien Hitlers Pawn Shop.

With a special sale on black eggs!

156 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:49:35pm

re: #130 Obdicut

You must be kidding. You are asking a precious metallurgist to do economics work best left to qualified academics. Preferably IMO one of those whose job does not depend on ratings or readers.

He'd be no better at working up the best rose gold in 14kt for die striking than I would at coming up with the numbers we expect economics experts to deal with routinely.

157 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:49:49pm

Really is too bad honestly what the History Channel has become. H2 has some good stuff on it from time to time though. Watched a fascinating documentary about the descendants of high ranking Nazis the other day though on Demand. Really touching scene where an Auschwitz survivor tells Rudolf Höss's grandson that he shouldn't feel responsible for his grandfather's sins.

158 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:49:52pm

Just be careful about re-Tweeting dead children images. Heck, similar shit was happening during hurricane Sandy. Although a different context altogether. But people will see a pic on Twitter and think "damn that's bad" and start re-Tweeting. It's no necessarily a sign of taking sides but sometimes just another reflection of Twitter.

159 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:49:58pm
160 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:50:12pm
161 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:50:30pm

I'm almost tempted to buy a subscription to Daylife.

162 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:50:40pm

re: #154 Stanghazi

not enough dude

(Hamas sucks) X 10,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000

163 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:51:16pm

re: #162 Gus

(Hamas sucks) X 10,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000

You didn't say HAMAS BLOWS.

164 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:51:25pm

re: #146 Daniel Ballard

Maybe as little as 75% of it given credit for some modest increase in good paying jobs. Maybe dollar for dollar, I'm not convinced that was going to work that much better than the stim we had.

What would convince you?

165 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:51:29pm

re: #158 Gus

Just be careful about re-Tweeting dead children images. Heck, similar shit was happening during hurricane Sandy. Although a different context altogether. But people will see a pic on Twitter and think "damn that's bad" and start re-Tweeting. It's no necessarily a sign of taking sides but sometimes just another reflection of Twitter.

I was waiting for that shallow water shark picture/Photoshop to start collecting destination and travel stickers like old-time steamer trunks did.

166 dragonfire1981  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:51:34pm

re: #162 Gus

(Hamas sucks) X 10,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000

Close, but still not quite...

167 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:51:58pm

re: #156 Daniel Ballard

You must be kidding. You are asking a precious metallurgist to do economics work best left to qualified academics..

Well, you're asking me to do it. So, were you kidding when you asked?

168 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:52:17pm

re: #166 dragonfire1981

Close, but still not quite...

You waiting for a few moles of "Hamas Sucks" to aggregate?

169 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:52:36pm

re: #162 Gus

Hamas sucksto infinity and beyond

170 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:52:59pm

re: #168 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears

You waiting for a few moles of "Hamas Sucks" to aggregate?

I'd worry about critical mass.

171 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:53:16pm

re: #169 lawhawk

Hamas sucksto infinity and beyond

*Disney drone dispatched to your location*

172 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:54:43pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

Rather rich coming from the guy whose img is that of Che Groverer. /Disney drone rerouting on priority run!

173 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:55:06pm

re: #161 Vicious Babushka

I'm almost tempted to buy a subscription to Daylife.

Is their picture service even running anymore? I thought it was shut down completely. I've been checking Getty Images and Yahoo news pics (which is almost impossible to use). The topic of using Palestinian stringers and sympathetic photo/video editing is still very interesting to me but it's quickly becoming a testy topic around here.

174 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:55:42pm

re: #172 lawhawk

Rather rich coming from the guy whose img is that of Che Goverer. /Disney drone rerouting on priority run!

Yeah, but I have AA lasers. You don't.
;)

175 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:55:48pm

re: #122 Gus

Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks.

There. Are we clear?

Why are you defending Hezbollah? You've never ever ever... ever rejected Hezbollah and Chuck Norris.

176 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:56:18pm

re: #175 Kronocide

Why are you defending Hezbollah? You've never ever ever... ever rejected Hezbollah and Chuck Norris.

Why you like Fatah?

177 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:56:43pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

Is their picture service even running anymore? I thought it was shut down completely. I've been checking Getty Images and Yahoo news pics (which is almost impossible to use). The topic of using Palestinian stringers and sympathetic photo/video editing is still very interesting to me but it's quickly becoming a testy topic around here.

They have been acquired by Newscred.com probably about the same time they put their archive behind a paywall.

178 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:57:14pm

re: #174 Varek Raith

I've got Iron Dome. And a LOIC just in case things get MAD.

179 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:57:29pm

re: #164 Obdicut

What would convince you?

Irrelevant now, it's the road not taken. Back to the more contemporary question-If Paul Krugman follows up with where he thinks the best rates would be looking forward & factually why, I'd read it with great interest.

I contend that looking at past tax rates for answers today is foolish. We need to look at todays economy and choose appropriate changes looking ahead. After all the view in the rear view mirror is so small as compared to the proverbial windshield. The question needs to be unburdened of past rates.

180 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:58:00pm

re: #176 Gus

And since you're on that subject, why are you a PIJ and PRC sympathizer? I've never seen you write about 'em in the past day. /

181 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:58:24pm

re: #177 Vicious Babushka

They have been acquired by Newscred.com probably about the same time they put their archive behind a paywall.

It looks like they're still running for professional news services. I would guess a subscription would be very expensive.

182 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:59:05pm

re: #176 Gus

Why won't you denounce eating all the cashews out of a jar of mixed nuts?

183 allegro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:59:15pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

After making his heavenly Creme Brulee recipe for my dinner party this weekend, I am genuflecting at his feet. I'd trust any recipe he offered.

184 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:59:22pm

re: #176 Gus

Why you like Fatah?

Why are you being evasive about Tom, Dick, and Harry? You obviously support them and their cats.

185 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:59:45pm

re: #184 Kronocide

Why are you being evasive about Tom, Dick, and Harry? You obviously support them and their cats.

To say nothing of the dog.

186 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:00:22pm
187 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:00:51pm
188 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:01:03pm

Freeper Madness goes Sharon one better!

Got Yer 'Plan B' for Gaza Right Here, Bibi

This was posted by "Reaganite Republican," the same tea partier who declared war on the Republican establishment earlier today.

In brief, RR proposes to provide the IDF with 8000 armored bulldozers, which they will then line up track to track and push everything in Gaza into the sea.

As for the civilian population, they overwhelmingly voted for the Islamists... so now they can take a swim with them.

He calls this "Operation Glub-Glub."

This is the future of the Republican Party, folks.

189 CriticalDragon1177  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:01:13pm

re: #1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Unfortunately that just might happen.

190 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:01:49pm

re: #188 Shiplord Kirel

Freeper Madness goes Sharon one better!

Got Yer 'Plan B' for Gaza Right Here, Bibi

This was posted by "Reaganite Republican," the same tea partier who declared war on the Republican establishment earlier today.

In brief, RR proposes to provide the IDF with 8000 armored bulldozers, which they will then line up track to track and push everything in Gaza into the sea.

He calls this "Operation Glub-Glub."

This is the future of the Republican Party, folks.

Yeah, that would go over well.

191 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:02:45pm

Israeli Strike on Police Station in the Jabalia/Jabaliya Refugee Camp? - Live Leak

I wonder if the Israelis sent out a warning about this one. The medic is leading that lady away just before the strike. Maybe just very lucky.

192 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:02:52pm

re: #167 Obdicut

Well, you're asking me to do it. So, were you kidding when you asked?

No I ask Krugman, and I also include economics experts. Do you have a degree in economics? Or substantial professional experience? That's who I mean to ask. What I meant to ask you in terms of show me could be as simple as a link or two to a paper I may have missed. There are lots of those.

I welcome links like that from anyone. The work itself needs to be done by those qualified.

193 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:03:23pm

re: #183 allegro

After making his heavenly Creme Brulee recipe for my dinner party this weekend, I am genuflecting at his feet. I'd trust any recipe he offered.

I've learned a lot from him over the years.

194 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:03:40pm

re: #162 Gus

(Hamas sucks) ^ 10,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000,­000

FTFY

195 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:04:01pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

Why won't you denounce eating all the cashews out of a jar of mixed nuts?

Huh? Oh crap I am sooo busted if he does.

196 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:04:24pm

re: #183 allegro

After trying Paula Deen's fried chicken at Lady and Sons this past week, I will never have fried chicken anywhere else again. Ever. It was that good.

197 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:04:34pm

re: #122 Gus

Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks. Hamas sucks.

There. Are we clear?

¿Qué?

198 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:04:44pm

re: #190 Gus

Yeah, that would go over well.

This is the same faction that is preparing to fight ACORN militia and UN troops in the streets of Lubbock, so reality isn't much of a consideration in their planning.

199 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:05:16pm

Shockwave Flash plugin (for Chrome) crashes all the time for me. Does anyone know if that is the way it is designed, or if it's my PC?

200 jaunte  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:06:06pm

re: #197 Lidane

¿Que?

Frequent preemptive denunciation is the new normal.

201 Jolo5309  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:06:09pm

re: #183 allegro

After making his heavenly Creme Brulee recipe for my dinner party this weekend, I am genuflecting at his feet. I'd trust any recipe he offered.

I tried his fruit cake recipe this weekend, can't wait to see what it is like in 2 weeks

202 Mattand  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:07:30pm

Regarding Rubio: Creationism is fast becoming my litmus test for politicians any more. It's like refusing to believe water is wet. If you are a creationist, you are too stupid to tie your own shoes, let alone be a Senator.

203 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:07:53pm

re: #200 jaunte

Frequent preemptive denunciation is the new normal.

And Benghazi.

204 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:08:42pm

Rubio isn't the only creationist Republican on the Senate Science Committee, by the way.

205 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:08:48pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

Why won't you denounce eating all the cashews out of a jar of mixed nuts?

For the same damn reason he keeps eating the caviar when it's a garnish on the dish.

206 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:09:28pm

re: #205 BenghaziHoops

For the same damn reason he keeps eating the caviar when it's a garnish on the dish.

Hmm, so that is where all my smoked salmon went... >:(

207 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:09:33pm

re: #191 Killgore Trout

Israeli Strike on Police Station in the Jabalia/Jabaliya Refugee Camp? - Live Leak

[Embedded content]

I wonder if the Israelis sent out a warning about this one. The medic is leading that lady away just before the strike. Maybe just very lucky.

Probably, why else was the photographer so intent on people in a city street that they call a camp?

208 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:09:52pm

But the simpletons will do that. If you're opposed to Operation Pillar of Cloud you must be pro-Hamas! Derp. Heck, apparently if don't pounce on someone who is opposed to this operation you're pro-Hamas! Double derping.

209 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:10:25pm

re: #208 Gus

But the simpletons will do that. If you're opposed to Operation Pillar of Cloud you must be pro-Hamas! Derp. Heck, apparently if don't pounce on someone who is opposed to this operation you're pro-Hamas! Double derping.

The enemies of nuance.

210 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:10:40pm

re: #199 Achilles Tang

Shockwave Flash plugin (for Chrome) crashes all the time for me. Does anyone know if that is the way it is designed, or if it's my PC?

You might try updating your flash player or removing it and reinstalling. It does get kinda crashy sometimes. Also I think script blockers can mess up flash player sometimes too.

211 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:11:28pm

re: #188 Shiplord Kirel

Freeper Madness goes Sharon one better!

Got Yer 'Plan B' for Gaza Right Here, Bibi

This was posted by "Reaganite Republican," the same tea partier who declared war on the Republican establishment earlier today.

In brief, RR proposes to provide the IDF with 8000 armored bulldozers, which they will then line up track to track and push everything in Gaza into the sea.

He calls this "Operation Glub-Glub."

This is the future of the Republican Party, folks.

Aw fuck, they are using the Hebrew "Don't Tread On Me" graphic that I created. Some wingnuts don't even bother to remove the watermark.

212 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:11:41pm

re: #207 Achilles Tang

Probably, why else was the photographer so intent on people in a city street that they call a camp?

They started out as camps but continue to be called camps. They're really neighborhoods now. But they're still called refugee camps.

213 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:11:59pm

re: #207 Achilles Tang

Probably, why else was the photographer so intent on people in a city street that they call a camp?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. There doesn't seem to be much of a reason for the guy to be filming. Nobody else walking around in the background, that lucky lady was the last one of of the area.

214 allegro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:12:46pm

re: #201 Jolo5309

I tried his fruit cake recipe this weekend, can't wait to see what it is like in 2 weeks

This one? It sounds delicious! Expensive as hell with all of those ingredients (and where do you find sun-dried blueberries?) but probably very well worth it for an awesome holiday treat.

215 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:14:49pm

re: #207 Achilles Tang

Probably, why else was the photographer so intent on people in a city street that they call a camp?

I just watched again and it looks like they had enough time to put up little road blocks in the street too. Lady sure was taking her time, ambulance guy seems a bit more urgent.

216 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:14:55pm

re: #213 Killgore Trout

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. There doesn't seem to be much of a reason for the guy to be filming. Nobody else walking around in the background, that lucky lady was the last one of of the area.

Police stations are known targets in these situations.

217 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:17:03pm

re: #214 allegro

This one? It sounds delicious! Expensive as hell with all of those ingredients (and where do you find sun-dried blueberries?) but probably very well worth it for an awesome holiday treat.

Hmm. Thanks for the reminder. I need to start baking things and doing ingredient collection for Thursday. Challenge will be advance prep work since the dinner is at my friends' new place. Unsure how set up their kitchen will be since the movers will be getting there tomorrow afternoon.

(Yes, my hurricane refugees found a new place - located at a higher altitude. And since they are picking up their dog on Wednesday the venue for Thanksgiving dinner will be there as well.)

218 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:18:08pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

I just watched again and it looks like they had enough time to put up little road blocks in the street too. Lady sure was taking her time, ambulance guy seems a bit more urgent.

And the people filming did not sound like they were exclaiming in shock.

219 CriticalDragon1177  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:18:24pm

re: #204 Charles Johnson

There shouldn't be any creationists on that committee. Obviously if you believe in creationism, you're not very scientific.

220 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:18:35pm

Israel calling, better pick up the phone

Israel calls beforing droping a bomb

221 Jolo5309  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:19:28pm

re: #214 allegro

This one? It sounds delicious! Expensive as hell with all of those ingredients (and where do you find sun-dried blueberries?) but probably very well worth it for an awesome holiday treat.

I made three fruitcakes and the ingredients were north of 70 bucks (without the booze). The combined weight of all three is a little over 7 lbs...

The blueberries were purchased at a bulk organic store (remember, I live in Canada). If you live in the US, you can try here.

222 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:20:20pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]


WTF is he whining about? I was totally not "silent" on that thread.

I must totally be a "self hater" and a "Hamas lover" woo woo

I don't know, he must be a really great blogger, after all he is bragging about being linked to twice by The Blaze, I mean wow!

/

223 gwangung  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:22:37pm

re: #219 CriticalDragon1177

There shouldn't be any creationists on that committee. Obviously if you believe in creationism, you're not very scientific.

If you don't believe in creationism, you're not a Republican.

224 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:23:10pm

Beisner: Belief in Climate Change 'is an Insult to God'

Cal Beisner of the Cornwall Alliance is the Religious Right's favorite anti-climate change "expert" despite the fact that his academic credentials are limited to a doctorate in Scottish History. While appearing on AFA's "Today's Issues" radio program today, Beisner provided the most concise explanation of why Christians cannot believe in climate change when he declared that the entire theory rests on the assumption that the earth is an extremely fragile place, which conflicts with the Biblical view that the earth was built by God for man's use.

Therefore, to believe in climate change "really is an insult to God" ... and it will eventually lead to tyranny:

Accepting reality means you hate God apparently.

225 allegro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:24:44pm

re: #224 Kragar

Beisner: Belief in Climate Change 'is an Insult to God'

Accepting reality means you hate God apparently.

These people really creep me out.

226 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:25:00pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

Israel calling, better pick up the phone

Israel calls beforing droping a bomb

[Embedded content]

I was assuming that the IDF called before that police station air strike. The videographer was probably aware as well and was waiting.

227 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:27:16pm

Thank you Christian journalism for tackling the really tough questions that the mainstream media consistently ignores.
Can You Be Raped by the Devil?

228 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:28:07pm

re: #226 Gus

I was assuming that the IDF called before that police station air strike. The videographer was probably aware as well and was waiting.

I wonder if they call in person or if you just get a recording.

229 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:28:50pm

After a year long election cycle I'm glad to see some posts about science.
I'm looking forward to some imformative Climate change threads in the future.
Till Then.. BENHGAZI!

230 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:29:01pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

Unfortunately, folks, there's a fundamentalist strain of Catholicism that does espouse young earth creationism. One of the most public proponents of this insanity: Rick Santorum.

... and as we've seen in the past, those extremely fundamentalist Catholic pockets tend to align/ally with the Christian Identist / tribal nationalist types like Lefebre / SSPX, GOV, etc.

231 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:29:06pm

"Pssst, don't say anything to the guys in the front office on the second floor but you better get out of the building"

232 erik_t  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:30:04pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

I wonder if they call in person or if you just get a recording.

I don't know, but I hear it costs $17.

233 Lidane  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:30:38pm

re: #224 Kragar

Beisner: Belief in Climate Change 'is an Insult to God'

Accepting reality means you hate God apparently.

So a guy with a doctorate in Scottish history knows more than a bunch of climate scientists.

Yeah, that makes sense.

///

234 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:31:07pm

re: #233 Lidane

So a guy with a doctorate in Scottish history knows more than a bunch of climate scientists.

Yeah, that makes sense.

///

If its not Scottish, ITS CRAP!

235 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:32:25pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

I wonder if they call in person or if you just get a recording.

Don't know. For police stations you actually don't have to call from what I understand. Maybe they didn't call. But the IDF already said that police stations are targets. I'm assuming they called here because the cameraman seemed to be ready.

236 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:32:34pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

I wonder if they call in person or if you just get a recording.

My name is Bibi Netanyahu and I approve this message...

237 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:34:01pm

The usual dumb comments at Liveleak. Feels like 2003 again.

*Hamas sucks.

238 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:34:24pm

re: #236 BenghaziHoops

My name is Bibi Netanyahu and I approve this message...

"If you're an innocent bystander, please leave the building. If you're with Hamas, please stay on the line and one of our representatives will be with you shortly."

239 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:34:58pm

re: #232 erik_t

I don't know, but I hear it costs $17.

"Press one if you're ready for some hot zionist action....Press two to speak with martyrdom services...press 3...."

240 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:34:59pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

I wonder if they call in person or if you just get a recording.

"Hi, who is this?"
"Um, Khalid."
"Oh, is there an Abdul S. there?"
"Yeah, one sec... Hello, this is Abdul."
"Hey Abdul, you're going to need to get out of the building but please don't tell Khalid."

241 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:35:01pm
242 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:36:42pm

Code Pink springs into action
Rights activists begin to enter Gaza as bombing intensifies

A delegation from Code Pink – Women for Peace, a ‘self-described’ “women-initiated grassroots peace and social justice movement working to end U.S. funded wars and occupations and to challenge militarism globally,” are on their way to to arrive November 25 to join over 500 Egyptian and global protesters who have been crossing the border from Egypt into Gaza as conflict between the Israeli government military forces and Hamas led Gaza forces has continued over the past six days.

The goal of Code Pink is “…for an emergency delegation to witness, report on the destruction and bring aid,” said Code Pink co-founder Medea Benjamin in an email message sent to members of Code Pink today, who is hoping to reach Gaza with a Code Pink delegation as soon as possible following their arrival in the region.

243 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:37:58pm

re: #240 Kragar

"Dave's not here, man"

244 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:38:25pm

re: #241 Gus

[Embedded content]

Creeping Sharia!...Oh. Wait...

245 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:43:39pm
246 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:43:44pm

Enter Sandman on kazoo

247 Kragar  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:44:24pm

re: #246 Kronocide

Enter Sandman on kazoo

[Embedded content]

Why do you hate America?

248 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:45:08pm

re: #247 Kragar

Why do you hate America?

Because you torment kittens with La-Sores.

249 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:45:16pm

re: #241 Gus

[Embedded content]

That's it. We're screwed.

250 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:46:59pm

Warning Hate site link:

Gohmert, Geller, Gingrich, West, and Hirsi Ali photos:

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

251 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:47:42pm

re: #221 Jolo5309

I made three fruitcakes and the ingredients were north of 70 bucks (without the booze). The combined weight of all three is a little over 7 lbs...

The blueberries were purchased at a bulk organic store (remember, I live in Canada). If you live in the US, you can try here.

So, when are you coming south? With your fruitcakes, I mean?

252 Gus  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:48:14pm

re: #250 Randall Gross

Warning Hate site link:

Gohmert, Geller, Gingrich, West, and Hirsi Ali photos:

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...]

Ick. I hope people realize by now what a wingnut Ayaan Hirsi Ali has become. Maybe she was always a wingnut and it's just me.

253 Jolo5309  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:48:34pm

re: #251 b_Snark

So, when are you coming south? With your fruitcakes, I mean?

Christmas, surprisingly enough, is going to be celebrated in Indian Head this year.

254 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:49:51pm

re: #252 Gus

Always a wingnut, but back when had the sense to keep the truly certifiable crazies at arm's length. Of course her meal ticket is stamped by the crazies nowadays to my understanding.

255 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:50:22pm

re: #253 Jolo5309

Christmas, surprisingly enough, is going to be celebrated in Indian Head this year.

As you swing by, throw me one of those fruitcakes.

256 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:51:06pm

re: #232 erik_t

I don't know, but I hear it costs $17.

Operator: You have a collect call from (inserted voice)'the IDF'(/inserted voice). Will you pay for the charges?

257 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:53:58pm

re: #188 Shiplord Kirel

Freeper Madness goes Sharon one better!

Got Yer 'Plan B' for Gaza Right Here, Bibi

This was posted by "Reaganite Republican," the same tea partier who declared war on the Republican establishment earlier today.

In brief, RR proposes to provide the IDF with 8000 armored bulldozers, which they will then line up track to track and push everything in Gaza into the sea.

He calls this "Operation Glub-Glub."

This is the future of the Republican Party, folks.

Funny, I think old man bin Laden (Osama's dad) also proposed that solution for Israel.

258 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:59:07pm

re: #250 Randall Gross

Wow, what a repulsive collection of people. Back in the PJ Media days Andrew Breitbart once tried to get me to go to one of these Restoration events. Shudder. Thank Cthulhu I never gave in to that pressure.

259 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 2:01:19pm

re: #192 Daniel Ballard

No I ask Krugman, and I also include economics experts. Do you have a degree in economics? Or substantial professional experience? That's who I mean to ask. What I meant to ask you in terms of show me could be as simple as a link or two to a paper I may have missed. There are lots of those.

There are more than lots of these. Why would you be convinced by one paper or another? I can easily link you to a zillion papers. But, as you said, you don't have a degree in economics, so how would you evaluate it?

260 Jolo5309  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 2:04:12pm

re: #255 b_Snark

As you swing by, throw me one of those fruitcakes.

I have to make more first. I need to clear up what I have of leftover fruit so I know what I need for extras.

261 Four More Tears  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 2:07:31pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

He re-tweeted a picture by mistake, then tweeted a clear apology when he realized it.

For this, he must burn in the fires of hell forever.

Wait, it was just a re-tweet? Are you fucking serious?

*rollseyes*

262 Mark Winter  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 3:01:00pm

2+2=4
Ok, I mean, many scientists, especially people who know about math say so but really, I think we can't be sure. Shouldn't we consider 5? Or 6. Or maybe 2200?

I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to answer that. It’s one of the great mysteries.

263 sunnygal  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:00:26pm

re: #73 William Barnett-Lewis

and the United Church of Christ, Methodists, Presbyterian, Episcopalians, most Lutherans and other mainline churches?

264 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:59:10pm

Since what really exists is Spacetime, the question" "How old is the Earth?" is incomplete and has no real answer.

Neither is there an absolute answer to "How big is the Universe?"

I am tired of this "Sea of noise and hoarse disputes." (Milton.)

265 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 5:39:11pm

re: #264 Ojoe

By that standard, "What time is it?" is an unanswerable question.

So that standard-- pretty useless.

266 labman57  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:49:17pm

The good Lord gave Man the gift of an advanced brain capable of higher level thinking.
It's a shame that so many scientifically-illiterate politicians and pundits have chosen to avoid using it.

More specifically, I don't expect our elected representatives to fully understand the radioactive dating methodologies commonly used to determine the age of rocks and fossil specimens, but I do expect that they acknowledge that such techniques exist and accept the validity of their findings.

267 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:08:35pm

re: #265 Obdicut

Specify the reference frame and you're good to go.

268 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:09:20pm

re: #267 Ojoe

Specify the reference frame and you're good to go.

Yeah, exactly. So, your original point: not so much of a point, was it?

269 Interesting Times  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:17:32pm

re: #268 Obdicut

Yeah, exactly. So, your original point: not so much of a point, was it?

Do keep in mind you're arguing with someone who once said this:

I get the very strong feeling that Obama is going to come close to losing all 50 states in November

Lulz.

270 tshinkle  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:11:09pm

If this isn't the fakest of all fake outrages, can someone let me know what is?

271 TDG2112  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 10:20:54pm

UGHH!!!
This is why we need to get Science into the Dailly media headlines. The quickest way is to fund NASA.
Take Action!
Penny4nasa.org.

I'm so annoyed i was no where near a PC when this story got posted.

272 JABaker  Tue, Nov 20, 2012 6:37:33am

re: #76 Daniel Ballard

We know it worked well then. What the GOP did to us in terms of tax rates has not worked -- neither for the economy nor for the provision of needed government services.

273 peteone69  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 4:37:22am

Are any of the Left-Wing patrons of this site aware that almost 50% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creation, including this former evolutionist and agnostic turned Creationist/Christian?
[Link: www.christianpost.com...]

274 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:23:28am

re: #273 peteone69

Are any of the Left-Wing patrons of this site aware that almost 50% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creation, including this former evolutionist and agnostic turned Creationist/Christian?
[Link: www.christianpost.com...]

And 30% of Americans believe in Bigfoot.
What's your point?

275 CriticalDragon1177  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:47:51am

re: #273 peteone69

Are you also aware that many Americans who believe creationism also believe in demonic rape? Tell me, are you afraid of being sexually assaulted by Demons on a daily basis?

Things You Didn’t Know You Needed To Worry About: Getting Raped By Demons
[Link: wonkette.com...]

If not, explain to me how belief demonic rape is unscientific, but a belief that Evolution is false and the Earth and all life on it, was created in six literal days, as well as the idea that a snake could talk is scientific. Oh and I forgot, how was there enough genetic variation for human species to survive if we started out with just two individuals. That's not a suitable breading population for any species. Also there's a whole lot of serious issues with the whole flood story.

276 CriticalDragon1177  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:56:21am

re: #250 Randall Gross

Just Geller praising a bunch of her fellow anti Muslim bigots.

277 TedStriker  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:09:07am

re: #270 tshinkle

re: #273 peteone69

Get bent...

278 Gus  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:53:22pm

re: #273 peteone69

Areway anyway ofway ethay Eftlay-Ingway atronspay ofway isthay itesay awareway atthay almostway 50% ofway Americansway elievebay inway Oungyay Earthway Eationcray, includingway isthay ormerfay evolutionistway andway agnosticway urnedtay Eationistcray/Istianchray?

Sorry but I really don't understand.


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