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“Reasonable” John Boehner: “Obamacare Has to Go”

Here we go again
Politics • Views: 24,553

Hey, I thought John Boehner was the “most reasonable, responsible person in Washington.” Ready to get down to work on the serious issues facing America.

So how come he’s suddenly getting wacky about Obamacare again?

President Obama has won re-election, but his health care law is still driving up costs and making it harder for small businesses to hire workers. As was the case before the election, Obamacare has to go.

You mean all that stuff about being reasonable and responsible was just empty happy talk? Say it ain’t so!

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84 comments

1 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:07:34pm

Hey Bonehead:

WalMart is not a "small business!"

2 recusancy  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:09:17pm
3 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:11:09pm

Good luck with that, Boehner.

I think Obamacare has got to go too. Eventually, we'll want to replace it with single-payer.

But just getting rid of it? Dumb.

4 aagcobb  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:13:45pm

This is why the President should just let the Bush Tax Cuts expire on January 1st, then give a prime-time speech explaining that a Senate middle class tax cut is on the table for the House to accept. Then let the GOP explain to the people why its allowing their taxes to be hiked. The President has all the cards; he doesn't have to face the voters again.

5 Jan Smiddy  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:15:17pm

He is right for once. Single payer is the only way to go.

Once the onus of healthcare is lifted off the shoulders of business all of our employers can compete with so many other competitors worldwide.

6 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:16:48pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Phasing out the health-insurance middlemen would be a great achievement.

Like many of the Republicans right now, they're fighting for their own survival (don't primary me, Bro!) So we'll have had 4 years of obstruction in hopes that Obama won't get re-elected, and it'll be another 4 years of intransigence so they get their own asses re-elected.

PBO needs to craft his own middle-class tax-cut plan to take the place of the Bush giveaway to the rich once it expires. Get the Senate to approve it, then hang it around Boner's neck like a ball and chain.

Edit: The Senate already crafted and passed something?

7 Bulworth  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:17:30pm

Obamacare is driving up healthcare costs even though it hasn't taken effect yet? That's pretty magical. /

8 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:17:51pm

So they want revenue increases through tax cuts and "reform," want to take an axe to entitlement spending, and most definitely want to see the ACA abolished.

Remind me again, who won the election?

9 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:17:54pm

Somebody does not like the law of the Land.

10 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:19:01pm

re: #8 Targetpractice

Remind me again, who won stole the election?

11 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:19:31pm

re: #10 Ghost of Tom Joad

ACORN!

12 Bulworth  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:25:20pm

So healthcare costs, like taxes, can never increase, ever? Forgot that part of the Constitution. /

13 simoom  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:27:40pm

re: #9 Sol Berdinowitz

Somebody does not like the law of the Land.

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

(Reuters) - Top Republican lawmaker John Boehner said on Thursday he would not make it his mission to repeal the Obama administration's healthcare reform law following the re-election of President Barack Obama.

"The election changes that," Boehner, speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives, told ABC news anchor Diane Sawyer when asked if repealing the law was "still your mission."

"It's pretty clear that the president was re-elected," Boehner added. "Obamacare is the law of the land."

Of course his press flacks walked this back shortly after the interview.

14 Flounder  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:27:42pm

If you haven't already done so, please take the turkey out of your freezer!

15 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:28:06pm

So Boehner and the guys, having lost in 2012, did not miss a step, they are already campaigning for 2014 and positioning themselves for 2016. That is, unfortunately, all we can expect from them until then, they have long since lost the ability to "govern" in any constructive sense.

16 abolitionist  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:29:52pm

re: #14 Flounder

If you haven't already done so, please take the turkey out of your freezer!

I'd consider it, but my oven is kaput.

17 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:30:28pm

Because repealing the ACA was such a winning proposition for Mitt Romney...

18 Bulworth  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:32:12pm

So healthcare costs have been flat or declining for years now, and therefore, the only goal relating to healthcare is to ensure that costs never, ever increase, and that expanding coverage is not an important goal, particularly if it ever increases costs, and costs can never, ever increase. These guys are just so special. /

19 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:32:47pm

This is just Orange John going through the motions of appeasing the teabaggers so they don't march him to the wall and install comrade Cantor in his place. The President should pay it no mind.

20 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:34:25pm

Hm.

21 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:34:48pm

re: #19 Ian G.

This is just Orange John going through the motions of appeasing the teabaggers so they don't march him to the wall and install comrade Cantor in his place. The President should pay it no mind.

Word apparently was that Cantor won handedly in his reelection bid, but his approval rating has plummeted, so he wasn't gonna make a move against Boehner, at least not overtly.

22 Jan Smiddy  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:36:15pm

re: #13 simoom

And you thought these bastards learned nothing from the Rombot.

Good to know Agent Orange is on the job! Tell your largest audience what you want them to believe and then backpedal.

True leadership.

23 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:36:15pm

"President Obama has won re-election, but his health care law is still driving up costs and making it harder for small businesses to exploit people who are desperate to find work by offering them sub par jobs that do not provide healthcare subsidies"

fixed your typo, mr boehner

24 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:39:17pm

John Boehner is addicted to getting his ass handed to him.

25 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:39:55pm

re: #23 engineer cat

"President Obama has won re-election, but his health care law is still driving up costs and making it harder for small businesses to exploit people who are desperate to find work by offering them sub par jobs that do not provide healthcare subsidies"

fixed your typo, mr boehner

I think what they're showing is that they are utterly terrified of Obamacare actually working as intended. If they really thought it would do all these horrible things (debt, jobs, business), they would most likely just let it run its course so they could all scream "Told ya so! in a few years, and then bludgeon the Dems in the subsequent elections.

26 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:40:13pm

re: #19 Ian G.

This is just Orange John going through the motions of appeasing the teabaggers so they don't march him to the wall and install comrade Cantor in his place. The President should pay it no mind.

the teabaggers demand their daily 9 o'clock feeding of Angry Rhetoric

27 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:40:15pm
28 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:41:33pm

re: #20 Four More Tears

Hm.

[Embedded content]

[Link: un-report.blogspot.com...]

Israel shall stop all hostilities in the Gaza Strip land sea and air, including incursions and targeting of individuals.All Palestinian factions shall stop all hostilities from the Gaza Strip against Israel, including rocket attacks and all attacks along the border.

Opening the crossings and facilitating the movement of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents' free movements and targeting residents in border areas.

Procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire.

Other matters as may be requested shall be addressed.

Implementation mechanism
Setting up the zero hour understanding to enter into effect.

Egypt shall receive assurances from each party that the party commits to what was agreed upon.

Each party shall commit itself not to perform any acts that would breach this understanding. In case of any observations, Egypt as a sponsor of this understanding, shall be informed to follow up.

29 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:41:54pm

re: #27 Four More Tears

[Embedded content]

Ah, jokes and human emotion. Another reason Rombot lost.

30 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:42:22pm

re: #27 Four More Tears

Thin skinned Kaczynski.

31 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:43:34pm
32 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:44:33pm

re: #27 Four More Tears

That's the only reason the turkey voted for Obama...

33 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:46:04pm

Al Jaz

Palestinian fighters in the Gaza Strip launched 12 rockets into Israel during the hour after a ceasefire was announced with Israel, an Israeli police spokesman said.

Israel and Hamas movement agreed to an Egyptian-sponsored ceasefire that came into effect at 9 p.m. (1900 GMT) to halt an eight-day conflict around the Gaza Strip that has killed more than 140 Palestinians and five Israelis.

Spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said the 12 rockets landed in open areas and caused no damage or casualties.

"We have not changed our mode of alert and remain vigilant," Rosenfeld said.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the "Iron Dome" anti-missile system had intercepted some of the rockets. She added that Israel had ceased all air strikes on Gaza after the ceasefire came into effect.

In Gaza, witnesses reported one explosion shortly after the truce took effect, but there were no casualties and the cause of the blast was unclear.

34 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:46:29pm

re: #3 Obdicut

Good luck with that, Boehner.

I think Obamacare has got to go too. Eventually, we'll want to replace it with single-payer.

But just getting rid of it? Dumb.

As I've been saying, Obamacare has provisions that, once they're put into force, will in my opinion set the private health care system to circling the drain.

Now partisans of single-payer system, if they too foresee this, would have every incentive to hotly deny it. Then, when it comes to pass anyhow, the case for single payer will be overwhelming. There will be no alternative. Nothing to which we could go back, even if we wanted to.

Any bets on whether Obamacare will prove to be feasible as now written, and will not have to be replaced by single payer?

Getting rid of Obamacare and simply going back to the status quo ante, which was itself in deep trouble, isn't much of an option. If the public decides it doesn't want the federal government to have the final say over which states and cities get to have the cutting-edge hospitals and which have, well, much less, or if it wants market-driven medical innovation to continue, there will have to be some serious ground-up thought about what system we do want. I'd want insurance to be completely portable, and not tied in any way to employment. Losing your job shouldn't mean losing your health coverage, and then finding that your "preexisting condition", which didn't exist when you first got covered, was suddenly excluded. I'd want malpractice awards capped, and I'd want judges and juries hearing those cases to know a little something about medical science and statistics. I'd want an end to forum shopping.

I'd want provisions for the poor to have some default insurance, that covered everything that wasn't in some sense a luxury or optional or hugely expensive. It should include preventive medicine such as dental care, inoculations, screening for metabolic syndrome, etc. But not aromatherapy, or chiropractic treatment, or plastic surgery for the ordinary consequences of aging. It shouldn't be so comprehensive and gilt-edged as to cause working folk to wish they, too, could be poor so they could have it themselves. (The "moral hazard" problem that sinks so many well-intentioned schemes.)

I'd want the system now in place for reporting of near-accidents to the aviation authorities copied to the health care system. Mishaps, difficulties with MRSA control, and on and on, would be reported on a no-fault basis to an authority (yes, government) which would then set standards with a view to keeping down the future incidence of such problems. Failure to observe the standards would be a yes-fault thing.

I'd want a lot of experts to think things through and come up with more ideas---these here are just to get the ball rolling. It isn't that Obamacare has got to go because it's ideologically unacceptable---it's that it's the kind of law that torpedoes itself. In this, I think it resembles California's system for regulating utilities in the Gray Davis era. The regulations were so game-able, they got gamed, and provision of "electricity care" to CA pretty much fell apart.

35 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:48:00pm

re: #25 Ghost of Tom Joad

I think what they're showing is that they are utterly terrified of Obamacare actually working as intended. If they really thought it would do all these horrible things (debt, jobs, business), they would most likely just let it run its course so they could all scream "Told ya so! in a few years, and then bludgeon the Dems in the subsequent elections.

What's got them scared is that support for repealing Obamacare plummeted after the election. When people are losing their insurance, they're rightly blaming it on the greedy bastards at the insurance companies or the sore losers they work for.

36 RadicalModerate  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:49:30pm

re: #27 Four More Tears

[Embedded content]

Keeping with Thanksgiving tradition, President Obama pardons a large fowl from becoming tomorrow's main dinner course.

Also, keeping with tradition, John Boehner and the Republican Party insist on continuing in their f**king of one, repeatedly.

37 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:49:35pm

re: #25 Ghost of Tom Joad

I think what they're showing is that they are utterly terrified of Obamacare actually working as intended. If they really thought it would do all these horrible things (debt, jobs, business), they would most likely just let it run its course so they could all scream "Told ya so! in a few years, and then bludgeon the Dems in the subsequent elections.

I'd be delighted, but astonished, if Obamacare worked as advertised. If it's not been scrapped or drastically rewritten within 10 years, I'll do the you-were-right-and-I-was-wrong dance.

38 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:52:08pm

re: #34 lostlakehiker

obamacare means billions of dollars in guarenteed new business for private insurers

people who tell you obamacare will cause private insurers to lose money are misinformed or lying

39 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:52:38pm
40 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:52:48pm

re: #35 Targetpractice

What's got them scared is that support for repealing Obamacare plummeted after the election. When people are losing their insurance, they're rightly blaming it on the greedy bastards at the insurance companies or the sore losers they work for.

True, especially now with some of these rich assholes like Schnatter and Metz who are threatening their workers (others laying-off and firing) because of the pittance Obamacare will cost (god-forbid it comes from their egregious profit-margin). They're showing it to be nothing more than an ideological battle, and you're right, they're going to blame the greedy bastards for it.

41 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:55:54pm

re: #37 lostlakehiker

I wouldn't want it permanently, but it's a decent start to what we should have, and way better than what people did have. Yes, it's flawed, and hopefully it is changed over the course of its history. But, it's a start.

42 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:56:17pm

These guys represent a mindset that simply believes that their perceptions of the world can alter objective facts, and that if they simply insist on perceiving ACA as a failure, then it will become one.

43 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:57:31pm

re: #42 Sol Berdinowitz

That dovetails quite nicely with Erick Son of Erick's rant about how scientists don't know what created the universe, but he does because shut up, that's why.

44 dragonfire1981  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:01:19pm

re: #42 Sol Berdinowitz

These guys represent a mindset that simply believes that their perceptions of the world can alter objective facts, and that if they simply insist on perceiving ACA as a failure, then it will become one.

Oh don't worry, I'm sure they can easily BS numbers and data to back up that claim.

OT - I have just crossed the 10 000 Karma threshold. I'm liking it on the other side. Thanks, Lizards.

45 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:01:24pm

Taking off to the yearly family gathering of people who drink too much and air grievances from 20 years ago, so I'd like to wish everyone a safe and happy Thanksgiving holiday.

And remember, they're not really family until you've considered strangling one of them.

46 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:02:23pm

What's the big deal with scoring 138 points in a basketball game? From the 7th to the 8th grade, I doubled my total scoring season to season. (In the eighth grade, I scored 2 points).

47 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:05:19pm

re: #44 dragonfire1981

Oh don't worry, I'm sure they can easily BS numbers and data to back up that claim.

OT - I have just crossed the 10 000 Karma threshold. I'm liking it on the other side. Thanks, Lizards.

Have another one.

48 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:05:39pm

re: #34 lostlakehiker

As I've been saying, Obamacare has provisions that, once they're put into force, will in my opinion set the private health care system to circling the drain.

Name them. Also name what this private health care system we have is. We have a mix of public and private-- many of our best and largest hospitals are public.

Now partisans of single-payer system, if they too foresee this, would have every incentive to hotly deny it. Then, when it comes to pass anyhow, the case for single payer will be overwhelming. There will be no alternative. Nothing to which we could go back, even if we wanted to.

Dear god, you have nothing left but conspiracy theories. Every goddamn time it's a conspiracy.

Any bets on whether Obamacare will prove to be feasible as now written, and will not have to be replaced by single payer?

In the long term, nothing but single-payer or a severely mixed system, like Singapore or Germany, is feasible.

Getting rid of Obamacare and simply going back to the status quo ante, which was itself in deep trouble, isn't much of an option. If the public decides it doesn't want the federal government to have the final say over which states and cities get to have the cutting-edge hospitals and which have, well, much less, or if it wants market-driven medical innovation to continue, there will have to be some serious ground-up thought about what system we do want.

This is you thinking that single-payer insurance takes over actual healthcare treatment, yeah?

I'd want malpractice awards capped, and I'd want judges and juries hearing those cases to know a little something about medical science and statistics. I'd want an end to forum shopping.

In places where malpractice insurance has been capped, like Texas, there has been no effect whatsoever on the cost of health care. Health insurance portability doesn't make a lot of sense-- you mean you want health insurance to no longer be provided through employers?

I'd want provisions for the poor to have some default insurance, that covered everything that wasn't in some sense a luxury or optional or hugely expensive.

Glad you support single-payer insurance.

It should include preventive medicine such as dental care, inoculations, screening for metabolic syndrome, etc. But not aromatherapy, or chiropractic treatment, or plastic surgery for the ordinary consequences of aging. It shouldn't be so comprehensive and gilt-edged as to cause working folk to wish they, too, could be poor so they could have it themselves. (The "moral hazard" problem that sinks so many well-intentioned schemes.)

Cool, single-payer does that. Glad you're on board.

I'd want the system now in place for reporting of near-accidents to the aviation authorities copied to the health care system. Mishaps, difficulties with MRSA control, and on and on, would be reported on a no-fault basis to an authority ...

Great idea. Has nothing at all to do with health insurance, of course.

It isn't that Obamacare has got to go because it's ideologically unacceptable---it's that it's the kind of law that torpedoes itself.

Assertions are awesome things.

In this, I think it resembles California's system for regulating utilities in the Gray Davis era. The regulations were so game-able, they got gamed, and provision of "electricity care" to CA pretty much fell apart.

Holy fuck. That was a period of deregulation, you understand, right? And the ACA is, if anything, increased regulation?

49 TedStriker  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:06:35pm

re: #45 Ghost of Tom Joad

Taking off to the yearly family gathering of people who drink too much and air grievances from 20 years ago, so I'd like to wish everyone a safe and happy Thanksgiving holiday.

And remember, they're not really family until you've considered strangling one of them.

Wait, it's not Festivus yet, is it?

///

50 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:10:43pm

re: #44 dragonfire1981

I just turned 75.

51 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:10:44pm

re: #49 Ben G. Hazi

Wait, it's not Festivus yet, is it?

///

When do the feats of strength begin?

52 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:14:32pm

re: #50 darthstar

I just turned 75.

Pushing 25K here, but who's counting?

53 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:16:28pm

re: #52 Sol Berdinowitz

Pushing 25K here, but who's counting?

Just lucky I caught it at 75. Will check again in six months...(probably get downdinged to under 5k by then).

54 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:18:47pm

Note to Boehner, if the people wanted Obamacare to go, they would have elected the candidate who wanted to repeal it. It's been passed and the president who signed it into law has been re-elected. I know you don't like either fact but they're part of this thing called "reality." You know it's that place where your party used to be before you started pandering to the whackjobs.

55 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:20:26pm

re: #51 Targetpractice

When do the feats of strength begin?

Don't know

But if you go over to some of the Featured Pages there's many an Airing of Grievances!!!

56 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:21:37pm

re: #55 sattv4u2

Don't know

But if you go over to some of the Featured Pages there's many an Airing of Grievances!!!

Why go over there when I can do that here? Now, I got a lot of problems with you people!

//

57 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:21:59pm

re: #53 darthstar

Just lucky I caught it at 75. Will check again in six months...(probably get downdinged to under 5k by then).

Have another one.

58 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:23:09pm

Seriously though, what the hell does Boehner expect the president to do? "Oh, I fought my political ass off for this but John Boehner wants it repealed so it will be." Boehner's either stupid or delusional.

59 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:23:40pm

re: #53 darthstar

Just lucky I caught it at 75. Will check again in six months...(probably get downdinged to under 5k by then).

I'm doing the best I can, but I can only give you one downer per post!!!
//

60 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:25:19pm

re: #58 HappyWarrior

Seriously though, what the hell does Boehner expect the president to do? "Oh, I fought my political ass off for this but John Boehner wants it repealed so it will be." Boehner's either stupid or delusional.

He is just kicking off the 2014 Congressional midterms...

61 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:25:51pm

re: #59 sattv4u2

I'm doing the best I can, but I can only give you one downer per post!!!
//

Your downdings mean more to me than all the updings combined.

62 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:26:12pm

re: #58 HappyWarrior

Seriously though, what the hell does Boehner expect the president to do? "Oh, I fought my political ass off for this but John Boehner wants it repealed so it will be." Boehner's either stupid or delusional.

I don['t expect President Obama to do anything about it (nor should he) but in fairness he really didn't 'fight his political ass off for this" as it was passed while he had a majority in both houses.

63 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:26:37pm

re: #61 darthstar

Your downdings mean more to me than all the updings combined.

I thought my {sigh}s did !!
(or is that just when you're horny!!)

64 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:27:28pm

re: #62 sattv4u2

I don['t expect President Obama to do anything about it (nor should he) but in fairness he really didn't 'fight his political ass off for this" as it was passed while he had a majority in both houses.

Uh look at the number of seats his party lost in the midterms in 2010. It's clear what I meant.

65 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:30:53pm

re: #64 HappyWarrior

Uh look at the number of seats his party lost in the midterms in 2010. It's clear what I meant.

A blessing in disguise, it fired up the Tea Party to go so gung-ho that they blew an election that any sane, rape-free GOP could have won easily...

66 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:33:33pm

re: #65 Sol Berdinowitz

A blessing in disguise, it fired up the Tea Party to go so gung-ho that they blew an election that any sane GOP could have wone easily...

No argument with that. I just disagree that the president didn't fight his political ass off to get the legislation passed in light of what I already said about the 2010 midterms but I would also add that he had to do with the large number of Blue Dogs within his party too and the later Supreme Court challenges on ACA. That is what I meant by fought his political ass off for this. He wanted to make health care reform his legacy and he fought very hard to get it done.

67 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:33:48pm

re: #62 sattv4u2

I don['t expect President Obama to do anything about it (nor should he) but in fairness he really didn't 'fight his political ass off for this" as it was passed while he had a majority in both houses.

You don't have a very good long term memory, do you? The ACA was a six month battle - even with dual majorities - because blue-dog Democrats were afraid of getting ousted by Republicans in 2010, and then there were the asshole pro-lifers who didn't want to piss off the fetus-obsessed Jesus freaks or Fox News.

It was a significant accomplishment...by far the most significant piece of legislation since the Civil Rights era. Dismissing it as an easy task that didn't take much effort is disingenuous at best.

68 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:35:56pm

re: #67 darthstar

Dismissing it as an easy task that didn't take much effort is disingenuous at best.

I hardly 'dismissed' it, but to say he fought his political ass off for it also overplays it

yes, he (and Reid and Pelosi) had to reign in some stray cats, but they had the numbers going in and coming out

69 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:37:33pm

re: #67 darthstar

And if he (they) were so worried about consequences come 2010 perhaps he (they) should have included some things the repubs wanted and excluded some of the things they didn't

70 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:40:16pm

So ,,,, day before Thanksgiving ,,,,, 22 minutes before 5 p.m. on the east coast,,,, so what does the corporate office do (from Broomfield Colorado), Send out our monthly online training module,, due ,,, no later than Sunday the 25th!!!

{sigh],,, bbiab

71 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:42:21pm

re: #68 sattv4u2

Dismissing it as an easy task that didn't take much effort is disingenuous at best.

I hardly 'dismissed' it, but to say he fought his political ass off for it also overplays it

yes, he (and Reid and Pelosi) had to reign in some stray cats, but they had the numbers going in and coming out

I wouldn't say it overplays it all. And by I wasn't just including the fight for it, I was including the fight to preserve its constitutionality which as you and I know made it all the way to the Supreme Court. By political ass, I mean to say that he fought very hard at risk to both his party and himself. And that's true. I don't know how you can honestly dispute that point.

72 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:42:40pm

re: #69 sattv4u2

And if he (they) were so worried about consequences come 2010 perhaps he (they) should have included some things the repubs wanted and excluded some of the things they didn't

Selective memory is selective.

President Obama and the Democrats made tons of concessions that the GOP asked for, in exchange for the promise of votes that never came. It is clear from the record that the Republicans had zero interest in seeing the bill succeed, and even though they got much of what they wanted added (or removed) from the final legislation, they still voted in lock-step against it. Had the Democrats ignored their pleas, the bill would have been far more powerful and beneficial to this country than it currently is (which, of course, is still significant).

73 Stephen T.  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:43:57pm

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

Hey Bonehead:

WalMart is not a "small business!"

I've had Conservatives try to convince me that Walmart is a small business because of how they define "small business". Their convoluted definition seems to be designed to preclude some actual small businesses while including large corporations they wish to see placed under protective taxation.

74 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:47:32pm

re: #72 darthstar

Selective memory is selective.

President Obama and the Democrats made tons of concessions that the GOP asked for, in exchange for the promise of votes that never came. It is clear from the record that the Republicans had zero interest in seeing the bill succeed, and even though they got much of what they wanted added (or removed) from the final legislation, they still voted in lock-step against it. Had the Democrats ignored their pleas, the bill would have been far more powerful and beneficial to this country than it currently is (which, of course, is still significant).

Not to mention the Mandate was the Republican plan. A lot of the Democrats wanted the public option. Really, I don't see what the problem with saying the president risked his ass politically to get this passed is. I'd wager that the number of seats gained by the GOP in 2010 is much smaller without ACA. Hell I would even add that they probably don't take back the House without it. But politics is about taking chances and the president took a big chance by trying to and eventually succeeding on getting ACA passed into law. It was a big risk and for Boehner to suggest repealing it after this president won re-election is laughable. Not to mention after the USSC has affirmed its constitutionality. Boehner's acting like a jackass.

75 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 1:51:46pm

re: #74 HappyWarrior

Not to mention the Mandate was the Republican plan. A lot of the Democrats wanted the public option. Really, I don't see what the problem with saying the president risked his ass politically to get this passed is.

He's black, and he's a Democrat. And a lot of Republicans really still find that hard to accept, though they obviously won't admit it.

76 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 2:41:21pm

re: #43 Ian G.

That dovetails quite nicely with Erick Son of Erick's rant about how scientists don't know what created the universe, but he does because shut up, that's why.

I created the universe.
True story.

77 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 2:46:03pm

So much for "elections have consequences".

78 Godisdeadandburied  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 3:42:44pm

Didn't this idiot say after the election that Obamacare was the "law of the land?"

79 Godisdeadandburied  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 3:44:33pm

re: #12 Bulworth

Wonder if rupubliturds know that the countries with universal healthcare have lower costs and better outcomes than the U.S.?

80 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:08:21pm

re: #38 engineer cat

We shall see. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. The test will be whether large private insurance companies pull back from offering coverage to substantial classes of customers.

By way of analogy, suppose the federal government issued rules about insuring beachfront property that forbid them to take the prospect of global warming into account. Suppose I'm in a RW forum, arguing that it's real and that insurers will indeed begin raising rates and withdrawing from markets.

I'd say, we shall see. I expect adverse selection effects to overwhelm the system. The mandate's penalty is so small that it won't drive people into coverage, but out of it. I think they'll pay up and wait until they're sick to sign up for coverage.

Writing rules that can be gamed is not going to end well.

81 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:37:22pm

re: #80 lostlakehiker

We shall see. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. The test will be whether large private insurance companies pull back from offering coverage to substantial classes of customers.

They already do.

By way of analogy, suppose the federal government issued rules about insuring beachfront property that forbid them to take the prospect of global warming into account. Suppose I'm in a RW forum, arguing that it's real and that insurers will indeed begin raising rates and withdrawing from markets.

That's not an analogy in any way, shape, or form.

I'd say, we shall see. I expect adverse selection effects to overwhelm the system. The mandate's penalty is so small that it won't drive people into coverage, but out of it. I think they'll pay up and wait until they're sick to sign up for coverage.

Because people just hate having medical insurance, and will go to any lengths to avoid it, including paying a penalty to avoid having it.

Writing rules that can be gamed is not going to end well.

All rules can be gamed.

You don't seem to understand the ACA almost at all, yet you have all these conspiracy theories about it. It's really fucking weird.

82 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:41:27pm

re: #80 lostlakehiker

Did you even bother to look at coverage rates in Massachussets after 'Romneycare'?

They increased. Real world, unfortunately, disproves your paranoia.

Some gamed the system. Most didn't

83 labman57  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:07:28pm

So Mr. InstaTan has declared that allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire for incomes in excess of $250K is "off the table", whereas gutting the ACA must be "on the table".

Boehner and most of his fellow intransigent conservative members of Congress exist in a political bubble where the concerns of most Americans never reach them and the only factors that influence their decision-making are the recommendations of corporate lobbyists and the echoes of their own reality-devoid rhetoric.

84 funky chicken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:41:29pm

The GOP seems to be trying very hard to lose the House as soon as they can. I can't quite figure out why.


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