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Social Conservatives Getting Worried

Will you still love me, tomorrow?
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The religious right is beginning to feel like they were used and discarded: Social Conservatives Say They Deserve Seat at Table in Retooled GOP.

“If you have a party that says not to talk about social issues, it’s going to be awfully hard to convince an electorate of why we should celebrate life,” said Bob Vander Plaats, the evangelical leader in Iowa who played an influential role in that state’s caucuses earlier this year.

Yes, because without blue-nosed theocratic fanatics like Bob Vander Plaats telling them how to think, no American would ever celebrate life.

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384 comments

1 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:35:15pm

Well, if they would snap out of the Victorian era and get their heads in modern times, maybe they wouldn't have to worry so much about getting left behind.

(See what I did there?)

2 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:35:43pm

Mr. Plaats, I think you need to take another look at the GOP. Because every time it tried to "celebrate life," it did it in a fashion that scared the ever-loving shit out of the electorate. Ask Mr. Akin or Mr. Mourdock what "celebrating life" did for their campaigns.

3 jaunte  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:37:15pm

For some people, telling other people what to do
is the main reason to celebrate life.

4 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:42:28pm
5 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:42:46pm

re: #3 jaunte

For some people, telling other people what to do
is the main reason to celebrate life.

They feel it's their Christian Duty.

6 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:43:12pm

Vander Plaats is also a Birther, by the way.

7 jaunte  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:43:49pm
But to social conservatives, the challenge going forward is not a question of moderating; they argue that to rip out their leg from under the GOP would be to cripple the party politically. Rather, they argue the question is whether the party is able to find a more articulate messenger of social concerns.

Dannenfelser argued that Texas Sen.-elect Ted Cruz and Indiana Governor-elect Mike Pence (an outgoing congressman) are primed to lead social conservatives.

Yes, that's Ted “Sharia law is an enormous problem” Cruz.

8 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:44:39pm

Oh please GOP, do run Huckabee and Jindal in 2016!

9 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:45:55pm

re: #7 jaunte

Yes, that's Ted “Sharia law is an enormous problem” Cruz.

Two weeks later and they still keep insisting the message is not the problem, but rather the presentation.

10 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:46:12pm

re: #2 Targetpractice

Mr. Plaats, I think you need to take another look at the GOP. Because every time it tried to "celebrate life," it did it in a fashion that scared the ever-loving shit out of the electorate. Ask Mr. Akin or Mr. Mourdock what "celebrating life" did for their campaigns.


A very good article on that very point:

Abortion and rape: Of all the facets of the abortion debate, the most difficult ones for pro-lifers are the cases of rape or incest or where the life or health of the mother is at stake (a small percentage of all abortions). Many self-described pro-lifers are justifiably hesitant to legally require a woman who has been raped to bring the child of her attacker to term.

Todd Akin and then Richard Mourdock confirmed every wavering woman’s suspicion of pro-life conservatives when the former suggested that he understood nothing about the biology of human reproduction and when the latter contended that rape-generated pregnancy “is something that God intended to happen.” Yes, some women who have been raped have carried the child to term and wonderful people have been born as a result. But many women, maybe most, are horrified by the idea that the law could require rape victims to bear the children of the men who assaulted them. For a pair of aspiring GOP senators to utter awful comments, colossally devoid of empathy for the victims of rape, cemented the image of a party so mean they couldn’t even remember to mention the plight of the mother.

(Italics in original.)

11 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:46:20pm

Also, coincidentally, my plaats do need vandering.

12 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:46:55pm

Because it's the best version out there...

13 darthstar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:47:35pm

re: #8 goddamnedfrank

Oh please GOP, do run Huckabee and Jindal in 2016!

Keynote at the RNC by Palin!

14 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:48:20pm

This is the week that the fake Benghazi scandal totally collapsed.

15 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:48:40pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

Also, coincidentally, my plaats do need vandering.

Take a shower with a beautiful woman, that ought to help.

/[ducks under desk]

16 freetoken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:48:48pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Vander Plaats is also a Birther, by the way.

And it should be remembered that he was Huckabee's head guy in Iowa in 2008.

17 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:48:51pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

This is the week that the fake Benghazi scandal totally collapsed.

Nontroversy!

18 Mich-again  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:49:06pm

less is more..

Republicans have always likened their party to a three-legged stool...

19 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:49:51pm

Ummm, Hell No.

Note to GOP it's time to do the weeding. The moderates need a healthy home. Not one with theocratic rot like what we see in GGT's Page.

The nation is best served by competent loyal opposition.

20 Mattand  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:50:27pm

First paragraph of the NBC article:

Republicans' soul searching following the 2012 election could shortchange social conservatives, who say they're hardly to blame for the party's difficulties at the polls.

To which I say: bullshit. For every Republican actually soul searching (Bill Kristol's comments about raising taxes on the "job creators"), there's about 20 who didn't learn a fucking thing two weeks ago. Starting with Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan's thinly veiled racist remarks.

I really hope conservatives get their act together and join the rest of us in the 21st century, but anyone who thinks they're soul searching is delusional.

21 Mattand  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:51:51pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

This is the week that the fake Benghazi scandal totally collapsed.

I will absolutely give thanks for that in between mouthfuls of turkey tomorrow.

22 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:54:03pm

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

Take a shower with a beautiful woman, that ought to help.

/[ducks under desk]

A great shower is when you feel dirtier when you got out than when you went in..

23 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:54:10pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

This is the week that the fake Benghazi scandal totally collapsed.

It's like after the IG came out and said "There's no proof that Holder knew what was going on with F&F," the wingnuts tried to keep it alive by screaming "the IG's part of the coverup!," but nobody took them seriously.

The whole thing's basically now becoming one big "cover-up," which is hilarious because every person they said was gonna backstab Obama and provide the "truth" to the American people has gone on to confirm the White House's version of events.

24 Mich-again  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:54:50pm

I think they have the problem framed perfectly and that any one of the retread losers mentioned in that article will be perfect for leading the GOP to a 3rd consecutive defeat in 2016.

25 EPR-radar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:56:20pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon


A very good article on that very point:

(Italics in original.)

His motive is easy to see. People who become convinced that the GOP despises them and views them as intrinsically lesser (e.g., by displays of racism, misogyny and/or homophobia) tend to become a *very* reliable anti-GOP voting block.

However, this looks like a doomed effort, since even in that article, there doesn't appear to be explicit support for a rape exception.

The problem is the GOP product, not the GOP message.

26 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 6:57:59pm

re: #19 Political Atheist

Ummm, Hell No.

Note to GOP it's time to do the weeding. The moderates need a healthy home. Not one with theocratic rot like what we see in GGT's Page.

The nation is best served by competent loyal opposition.

Thanks for the link. The sad thing is that it just isn't Kentucky. Just after the Election in which the voters made it very clear their wishes, Ohio is defunding Planned Parenthood. Elected Officials are not doing the bidding of their constituents --they know better.

Citizens need to be vigilent.

27 kirkspencer  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:01:10pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon


A very good article on that very point:

(Italics in original.)

The kicker that rarely gets mentioned is parental rights. In many states the rapist gets to see the child on a regular basis -- and the woman gets to be reminded of the rape every couple of weeks.

28 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:02:30pm

Just finished another dystopian Sci-Fi type novel about the future. They seem to be the offering these days. I miss Star Trek.

Anyway, this one has D.C. under water and surrounded by jungle. The two war factions are the Patriots and the God people. Chinese peacekeepers --war lords selling our national treasures for profit. Good writing and eerily insightful, found myself sick-to-my-stomach at some parts.

But that seems to be it, doesn't it. The GOP split between the two fanatical groups --Jesus and Militiamen.

29 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:02:57pm

re: #25 EPR-radar

His motive is easy to see. People who become convinced that the GOP despises them and views them as intrinsically lesser (e.g., by displays of racism, misogyny and/or homophobia) tend to become a *very* reliable anti-GOP voting block.

However, this looks like a doomed effort, since even in that article, there doesn't appear to be explicit support for a rape exception.

The problem is the GOP product, not the GOP message.

The reason for that is that Geraghty wants his readers to understand how they are perceived by others. Advocating a rape exception would shift the topic to the issue of abortion in-and-of-itself, which would would weaken the arguement to people who need to hear it.

One step at a time.

30 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:04:23pm

There was a time when Common Law prevailed in among other places, England. IIRC, the basics with Saxon Law and other European laws were similar in the responsibility of Male Citizens.

They were to come, immediately to the rescue of a women being raped.

Now, a days, the ones screaming to return to our roots are the ones sanctioning rape.

31 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:06:09pm

re: #30 Gretchen G.Tiger

There was a time when Common Law prevailed in among other places, England. IIRC, the basics with Saxon Law and other European laws were similar in the responsibility of Male Citizens.

They were to come, immediately to the rescue of a women being raped.

Now, a days, the ones screaming to return to our roots are the ones sanctioning rape.

ah well, I forget. Women weren't people then. These men were actually coming to protect the asset of another man. His right to secure his seed for posterity.

32 EPR-radar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:06:33pm

re: #27 kirkspencer

The kicker that rarely gets mentioned is parental rights. In many states the rapist gets to see the child on a regular basis -- and the woman gets to be reminded of the rape every couple of weeks.

Here's an amusing party trick --- confront a hard-line (i.e., no rape exception) "pro-lifer" with the proposition that such an abortion ban amounts, in some sense, to a state endorsement of rape. After all, the rapist gets to procreate without any of that pesky business of getting consent.

33 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:06:53pm

re: #31 Gretchen G.Tiger

ah well, I forget. Women weren't people then. These men were actually coming to protect the asset of another man. His right to secure his seed for posterity.

It's sad when that attitude is better than the attitude these retards have.

34 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:06:56pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon


A very good article on that very point:

(Italics in original.)

The thing is that Akin and Mourdock were just being consistent. If one actually believes that personhood attaches at conception then the circumstances of conception should be irrelevant to the debate on comparative rights.

This is why it makes much more sense to conflate personhood with the capacity for self awareness than with existence, implantation or a heartbeat.

The problem facing the GOP is intrinsic to their dogma, it can't be fixed by simply avoiding discussions that logically stem from that dogma. Similarly gays and lesbians aren't going to be won over by refraining from making comparisons of their relationships to bestiality if the GOP continues to oppose their rights and equality of protection under the law. The issue isn't the egregiously base and mean spirited rhetoric employed by the GOP, conservative operatives and pundits, it's the underlying principles that the rhetoric stems from.

The article also contains some (at best) half truths:

This was a winnable argument for conservatives: In essence, Fluke expected Catholic institutions to violate their core principles and pay for something they deemed wrong, simply because she really wanted it.

Sandra Fluke paid for her own health insurance. The plan was simply negotiated by the University, and actuarially would have cost more not to cover simple pre-emptive care.

35 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:08:48pm

re: #33 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

It's sad when that attitude is better than the attitude these retards have.

No regard for the non-person being raped. It's all about reciprocation. I'll protect your incubator, you protect mine.

36 EPR-radar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:10:15pm

re: #29 Dark_Falcon

The reason for that is that Geraghty wants his readers to understand how they are perceived by others. Advocating a rape exception would shift the topic to the issue of abortion in-and-of-itself, which would would weaken the arguement to people who need to hear it.

One step at a time.

I see where you are coming from, but that people need an _explanation_ why Rush's Fluke remarks were beyond the pale, or why women might be ticked off at Akin and Mourdock, or why gay people might object to being likened to zoocrastics is disturbing.

Some things really are self-evident.

37 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:10:56pm

re: #32 EPR-radar

Here's an amusing party trick --- confront a hard-line (i.e., no rape exception) "pro-lifer" with the proposition that such an abortion ban amounts, in some sense, to a state endorsement of rape. After all, the rapist gets to procreate without any of that pesky business of getting consent.

Not only gets to procreate, but in many states of the union, gets parental rights to his progeny, such as visitation rights. In short, they're not only endorsing rape, but also saying the victim has no right to prevent the rapist from having a part in the child's life.

38 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:11:00pm

re: #35 Gretchen G.Tiger

No regard for the non-person being raped. It's all about reciprocation. I'll protect your incubator, you protect mine.

Which is similar in an opposite sense to the modern attitude. It's the same disregard for the non-person being raped, only they don't even have the courtesy to offer protection. In fact, they applaud rape as being the "will of God".

*spit*

39 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:12:36pm

re: #38 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Which is similar in an opposite sense to the modern attitude. It's the same disregard for the non-person being raped, only they don't even have the courtesy to offer protection. In fact, they applaud rape as being the "will of God".

*spit*

If the jesus freaks had their way, the victim would be forced (by shot-gun) to marry the rapist --because she was such a slut to get pregnant in the first place out-of-wedlock.

40 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:12:45pm

re: #34 goddamnedfrank

The thing is that Akin and Mourdock were just being consistent. If one actually believes that personhood attaches at conception then the circumstances of conception should be irrelevant to the debate on comparative rights.

This is why it makes much more sense to conflate personhood with the capacity for self awareness than with existence, implantation or a heartbeat.

The problem facing the GOP is intrinsic to their dogma, it can't be fixed by simply avoiding discussions that logically stem from that dogma. Similarly gays and lesbians aren't going to be won over by refraining from comparisons of their relationships to bestiality if the GOP continues to oppose their rights and equality of protection under the law. The issue isn't the egregiously base and mean spirited rhetoric employed by the GOP, conservative operatives and pundits, it's the underlying principles that the rhetoric stems from.

The article also contains some (at best) half truths:

Sandra Fluke paid for her own health insurance. The plan was simply negotiated by the University, and actuarially would have cost more not to cover simple pre-emptive care.

Indeed, the argument that the ideology isn't wrong, just the presentation of it, is laughable. You're not turning voters off because you made a gaffe, you're turning them off because you're denying them their rights while marching under the banner of being a party obsessed with individual rights.

41 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:13:38pm

re: #36 EPR-radar

I see where you are coming from, but that people need an _explanation_ why Rush's Fluke remarks were beyond the pale, or why women might be ticked off at Akin and Mourdock, or why gay people might object to being likened to zoocrastics is disturbing.

Some things really are self-evident.

Not if you've been immersed in the FNC-talk radio cocoon. The job of Jim Geraghty is to cut holes in that cocoon, so that the person within can learn how others see them.

42 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:13:54pm

re: #39 Gretchen G.Tiger

If the jesus freaks had their way, the victim would be forced (by shot-gun) to marry the rapist --because she was such a slut to get pregnant in the first place out-of-wedlock.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that part of Sharia law?

43 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:14:39pm

re: #39 Gretchen G.Tiger

If the jesus freaks had their way, the victim would be forced (by shot-gun) to marry the rapist --because she was such a slut to get pregnant in the first place out-of-wedlock.

The thing that sucks most about being a Christian is being associated with completely unhinged nutjobs like these. And the thing is, I know that these beliefs are "mainstream" and that my own, considerably more liberal beliefs are not.

44 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:15:05pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

Not if you've been immersed in the FNC-talk radio cocoon. The job of Jim Geraghty is to cut holes in that cocoon, so that the person within can learn how others see them.

There is a cocoon, but Geraghty's encased in it as much as the people he's trying to "help." He's espousing the same "it's not the message, it's the presentation" lie.

45 EPR-radar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:15:46pm

re: #38 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Which is similar in an opposite sense to the modern attitude. It's the same disregard for the non-person being raped, only they don't even have the courtesy to offer protection. In fact, they applaud rape as being the "will of God".

*spit*

It's old, and I've posted it before, but I still think the slogan "If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament" captures the entirety of the political battle over abortion. The political pro-life movement is straight up control of women as property.

46 EPR-radar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:16:51pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

Not only gets to procreate, but in many states of the union, gets parental rights to his progeny, such as visitation rights. In short, they're not only endorsing rape, but also saying the victim has no right to prevent the rapist from having a part in the child's life.

Good point. Further state endorsement of rape.

47 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:17:29pm

That's it, I'm declaring my independence from mainstream Christianity. I'm proclaiming my own sect called "practical fucking sense".

48 EPR-radar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:18:43pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

Not if you've been immersed in the FNC-talk radio cocoon. The job of Jim Geraghty is to cut holes in that cocoon, so that the person within can learn how others see them.

It will be interesting to see how many there are in the FNC cocoon that are still capable of reason. Too early to tell, but so far the policy prescriptions do not appear to be changing, which is not a good sign.

49 freetoken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:19:02pm

re: #28 Gretchen G.Tiger

Just finished another dystopian Sci-Fi type novel about the future. They seem to be the offering these days. I miss Star Trek.

Anyway, this one has D.C. under water and surrounded by jungle.

Eventually, inevitably, true with the warming of the Earth's surface.

50 Skip Intro  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:19:04pm
51 EPR-radar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:21:53pm

re: #39 Gretchen G.Tiger

If the jesus freaks had their way, the victim would be forced (by shot-gun) to marry the rapist --because she was such a slut to get pregnant in the first place out-of-wedlock.

Naturally. And some people still think the book title "American Taliban" is an exaggeration.

It isn't. If the religious right gets into real power in the US, then arbitrary levels of violence will be meted out against any who oppose the oppressive new order.

52 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:22:30pm

How crazy do people have to be to do this?

WTF!!

Best Buy has to be paying them for this stupid stunt!

I wouldn't camp out in front of a Best Buy (or any other store) even if they were GIVING AWAY TV'S FOR FREE.

53 Alexzander  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:23:14pm

Anyone else watching Henry Kissinger on Fox News right now? Bizarre contrast with the contemporary ADD Fox News pace.

54 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:23:23pm

re: #52 Vicious Babushka

How crazy do people have to be to do this?

WTF!!

Best Buy has to be paying them for this stupid stunt!

I wouldn't camp out in front of a Best Buy (or any other store) even if they were GIVING AWAY TV'S FOR FREE.

A Twin Cities woman was actually thrown off the property of a Best Buy because she was camped out there LAST WEEK. Another area Best Buy took her in and said they had no plans of evicting her.

55 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:23:49pm

re: #42 Targetpractice

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that part of Sharia law?

I think it depends on who is interpreting it at the time. And the cultural morays of the family.

Just another example of the similarities of fanatics.

56 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:23:51pm

re: #52 Vicious Babushka

How crazy do people have to be to do this?

WTF!!

Best Buy has to be paying them for this stupid stunt!

I wouldn't camp out in front of a Best Buy (or any other store) even if they were GIVING AWAY TV'S FOR FREE.

Depends on the TV...oh, don't give me that look, if you got a 47" 1080p flatscreen just by walking through the door, you'd be fighting people Thunderdome style for dibs on the head of the line.

57 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:25:04pm

re: #54 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

A Twin Cities woman was actually thrown off the property of a Best Buy because she was camped out there LAST WEEK. Another area Best Buy took her in and said they had no plans of evicting her.

It's publicity for Best Buy!

Fuck them, they are opening on Thanksgiving. How does Best Buy treat their workers compared to Walmart?

It seems that all these "big box" stores are sweatshop hell.

58 Mattand  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:26:15pm

re: #56 Targetpractice

Depends on the TV...oh, don't give me that look, if you got a 47" 1080p flatscreen just by walking through the door, you'd be fighting people Thunderdome style for dibs on the head of the line.

Two shoppers enter, one shopper leaves.

59 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:26:17pm

re: #52 Vicious Babushka

How crazy do people have to be to do this?

WTF!!

Best Buy has to be paying them for this stupid stunt!

I wouldn't camp out in front of a Best Buy (or any other store) even if they were GIVING AWAY TV'S FOR FREE.

I always thought it was an excuse to drink and party with other "campers" more than really wanting to be the first shoppers.

A new cultural tradition --like ice fishing.

60 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:26:56pm

re: #57 Vicious Babushka

It's publicity for Best Buy!

Fuck them, they are opening on Thanksgiving. How does Best Buy treat their workers compared to Walmart?

It seems that all these "big box" stores are sweatshop hell.

Yeah, this whole "Opening at 8PM on Thanksgiving night" royally pissed me off. I mean, not that the whole Black Friday trend was that awesomesauce to begin with, but this one really just tipped me over the edge. It's just Stuff (tm), people, it's not that important.

61 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:27:31pm

re: #60 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Yeah, this whole "Opening at 8PM on Thanksgiving night" royally pissed me off. I mean, not that the whole Black Friday trend was that awesomesauce to begin with, but this one really just tipped me over the edge. It's just Stuff (tm), people, it's not that important.

Quite Concur.

62 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:28:16pm

re: #59 Gretchen G.Tiger

I always thought it was an excuse to drink and party with other "campers" more than really wanting to be the first shoppers.

A new cultural tradition --like ice fishing.

I used to get more amusement tuning in to the late-night news and watching the shoppers fight over the "must-buy" toys of the year. You haven't lived til you've seen suburban wives wielding sharpened nails like razor blades to secure the last Elmo doll on the shelves.

63 Mich-again  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:28:47pm

re: #60 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Yeah, this whole "Opening at 8PM on Thanksgiving night" royally pissed me off. I mean, not that the whole Black Friday trend was that awesomesauce to begin with, but this one really just tipped me over the edge. It's just Stuff (tm), people, it's not that important.

I like how some stores still advertise "doorbuster" sales, even after people have been trampled to death in previous years.

64 Alexzander  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:29:16pm

Everything is just stuff, with values assigned to it through webs of meaning, depending on the perspective.

65 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:30:18pm

re: #62 Targetpractice

I used to get more amusement tuning in to the late-night news and watching the shoppers fight over the "must-buy" toys of the year. You haven't lived til you've seen suburban wives wielding sharpened nails like razor blades to secure the last Elmo doll on the shelves.

re: #63 Mich-again

I like how some stores still advertise "doorbuster" sales, even after people have been trampled to death in previous years.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

66 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:30:45pm

re: #64 Alexzander

Everything is just stuff, with values assigned to it through webs of meaning, depending on the perspective.

The best things in life can't be bought. Although my wife does seem to respond well to bribery.

67 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:31:16pm

re: #59 Gretchen G.Tiger

A new cultural tradition --like ice fishing.

Like winter camping...makes NO sense to me.

68 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:32:07pm

O.T. I just had a thought about how to shut down all the people advocating for their states to secede from the United States. Just tell them they can only secede if their state pays its per capita share of the National Debt first.

We could call it the: "We ain't letting you walk away and leave us holding the bag Act" so they'd understand the message. :p

///

69 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:32:16pm

re: #67 Joanne

Like winter camping...makes NO sense to me.

Camping makes no sense to me.

Why? When there is a perfectly good Hilton nearby.

Camping is for when you are lost and have no choice.

70 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:33:22pm

re: #68 watching you tiny alien kittens are

O.T. I just had a thought about how to shut down all the people advocating for their states to secede from the United States. Just tell them they can only secede if their state pays its per capita share of the National Debt first.

We could call it the: "We ain't letting you walk away and leave us holding the bag Act" so they'd understand the message. :p

///

Divorces are very expensive.

71 funky chicken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:33:30pm

re: #53 Alexzander

Anyone else watching Henry Kissinger on Fox News right now? Bizarre contrast with the contemporary ADD Fox News pace.

You're not kidding about the ADD thing. I flipped through FN the other day and it was super weird, like ... I can't even describe it. Maybe like an attempt to copy the TMZ show or something? I hadn't seen FN for a few years, and was really taken aback.

72 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:33:30pm

re: #67 Joanne

Like winter camping...makes NO sense to me.

Did that a few times in the Boy Scouts. Nothing quite like waking up to snow on the ground and -4 temp the next morning. Though I remember well the one time we got to the camping grounds just after a big rain storm and cheated to get the main fire going.

73 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:33:31pm

re: #63 Mich-again

I like how some stores still advertise "doorbuster" sales, even after people have been trampled to death in previous years.

Who cares, they are throwaway disposable Walmart employees anyway.//

74 Mich-again  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:33:38pm

I just might join in Black Friday festivities and go to some empty aisle and scream out OH LOOK AN ENTIRE PALLET OF NEW Wii's ON SALE!! and get video of gullible people running around the corner to grab one.

75 EPR-radar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:33:44pm

re: #47 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

That's it, I'm declaring my independence from mainstream Christianity. I'm proclaiming my own sect called "practical fucking sense".

You might be unnecessarily giving ground here --- the "moral majority" is neither. The Christian nut jobs infesting the GOP are a minority of the Christians in the US, as far as I know. However, they are organized, monolithic, loud, have captured large parts of the GOP and want to capture the rest.

So, they get all the press.

76 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:35:14pm

Meanwhile, I am purchasing parts of the computer to be built. Also, looking for an old friend here I had an odd incident with a year or 2 ago.

Also, where is CL? I sent her an email.

77 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:36:05pm

re: #74 Mich-again

I just might join in Black Friday festivities and go to some empty aisle and scream out OH LOOK AN ENTIRE PALLET OF NEW Wii's ON SALE!! and get video of gullible people running around the corner to grab one.

DO NOT BUY IPAD AT WALMART.

78 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:36:10pm

re: #69 Gretchen G.Tiger

Camping makes no sense to me.

Why? When there is a perfectly good Hilton nearby.

Camping is for when you are lost and have no choice.

LOL! I almost said exactly that...verbatim. Too. Funny.

On a sad note, my new antique mixmaster that I just got from eBay, didn't include the also antique power cord. I hope the seller finds it. I have no clue where to get a 40 year old cord.

Looks like another Mississippi Mud Cheesecake by hand. (Sigh)

79 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:37:36pm

re: #72 Targetpractice

Did that a few times in the Boy Scouts. Nothing quite like waking up to snow on the ground and -4 temp the next morning. Though I remember well the one time we got to the camping grounds just after a big rain storm and cheated to get the main fire going.

Was that supposed to be a fun outing?

80 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:37:41pm

re: #78 Joanne

LOL! I almost said exactly that...verbatim. Too. Funny.

On a sad note, my new antique mixmaster that I just got from eBay, didn't include the also antique power cord. I hope the seller finds it. I have no clue where to get a 40 year old cord.

Looks like another Mississippi Mud Cheesecake by hand. (Sigh)

If you have Mr Fixit kinda guy in your part of the world, I'll bet he has one or can make one.

81 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:38:59pm

re: #79 Joanne

Was that supposed to be a fun outing?

A college friend recommended snow camping because "it feels so good when you stop." I never felt the urge to start, myself.

82 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:40:24pm

re: #78 Joanne

LOL! I almost said exactly that...verbatim. Too. Funny.

On a sad note, my new antique mixmaster that I just got from eBay, didn't include the also antique power cord. I hope the seller finds it. I have no clue where to get a 40 year old cord.

Looks like another Mississippi Mud Cheesecake by hand. (Sigh)

I have a 32-year-old Hobart. About 5 years ago I took it in for a tune-up at the local KitchenAid repair place. The guy told me it is totally sweet and runs better than the cheap shit that KitchenAid makes in China.

83 Kaessa  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:40:30pm

re: #69 Gretchen G.Tiger

Camping makes no sense to me.

Why? When there is a perfectly good Hilton nearby.

Camping is for when you are lost and have no choice.

We went camping up in the mountains of Colorado this year at the height of the Perseids meteor shower. No tent, just an air mattress and some really great sleeping bags. Dogs on the bed with us, looking up at ALL THE STARS, and watching meteors shoot by every minute or so. No light pollution at all, we were 40 miles or more from the nearest (small) town.

It was amazing. I was awake most of the night because I couldn't take my eyes off the sky.

84 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:41:25pm

re: #69 Gretchen G.Tiger

Camping makes no sense to me.

Why? When there is a perfectly good Hilton nearby.

Camping is for when you are lost and have no choice.

Sigh. It's a man thing.

85 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:41:26pm

re: #80 Gretchen G.Tiger

If you have Mr Fixit kinda guy in your part of the world, I'll bet he has one or can make one.

I'm so blue. :-(

86 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:42:03pm

re: #79 Joanne

Was that supposed to be a fun outing?

Was pretty fun, actually. Got a lesson in firemaking...well, other than the one the day before, when we got the camp's fire going with a blowtorch. And most camping trips I went on were fun. Haven't had a chance in years to go on one, mostly because we don't have a tent anymore and I'd feel like Ted Kaczynski if I went camping by myself. I'm too much of a social creature to spend a weekend in the woods by myself and not go bugnuts.

Plus you get terrible wifi reception out there.

87 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:42:30pm

re: #85 Joanne

I'm so blue. :-(

Why don't you share that Mississippi Mud Cheesecake recipe?

88 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:43:04pm

re: #84 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Sigh. It's a man thing.

Not entirely a man thing. I camp from time to time. Usually because it lets you stay someplace really cool where there isn't a hotel around the corner. Cheaper than the Hilton too.

89 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:43:25pm

bbl

90 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:43:25pm

re: #47 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

That's it, I'm declaring my independence from mainstream Christianity. I'm proclaiming my own sect called "practical fucking sense".

it'll never catch on

91 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:44:54pm

re: #82 Vicious Babushka

I have a 32-year-old Hobart. About 5 years ago I took it in for a tune-up at the local KitchenAid repair place. The guy told me it is totally sweet and runs better than the cheap shit that KitchenAid makes in China.

I know! I got the same model my mom had (but with stainless bowls instead of glass). Biggest benefit is weight. I have messed up hands and picking up a cusinart or one of those is impossible.

I paid $10 bucks for this baby (going rate was $40-$80). The cord is in the pic on the listing so they probably just forgot to throw it in the box. I hope. Cheesecake by hand is a bitch.

92 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:44:57pm

re: #88 calochortus

Not entirely a man thing. I camp from time to time. Usually because it lets you stay someplace really cool where there isn't a hotel around the corner. Cheaper than the Hilton too.

No, not entirely a man thing. Haven't known a lot of woman campers, but happily, the Mrs. Fish is willing to go. Unfortunately, not quite as austere as I'm used to, but at least she'll go.

93 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:47:42pm

re: #83 Kaessa

My first time in rural CO, I spent an hour with my head hanging out of the car window staring at the sky. I'm a city girl and that was, simply, amazing. And there weren't even any meteors!

Still...sleeping (and pooping) outdoors is an absolute non-starter.

94 Kaessa  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:49:57pm

re: #93 Joanne

My first time in rural CO, I spent an hour with my head hanging out of the car window staring at the sky. I'm a city girl and that was, simply, amazing. And there weren't even any meteors!

Still...sleeping (and pooping) outdoors is an absolute non-starter.

I live in rural Colorado, so I totally understand that. :)

The pooping outdoors part of camping I could do without, but it's part of the price.

95 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:51:12pm

re: #87 Vicious Babushka

Why don't you share that Mississippi Mud Cheesecake recipe?

After I make it, I will. I never write anything down. Hubby is diabetic and he loves my cheesecakes. I make all kinds of flavors, all with Splenda (and a few tablespoons of sugar).

I'll post it after I make it (sometimes they're not good enough to pass along...I'm a perfectionist).

96 Mattand  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:51:54pm

re: #83 Kaessa

We went camping up in the mountains of Colorado this year at the height of the Perseids meteor shower. No tent, just an air mattress and some really great sleeping bags. Dogs on the bed with us, looking up at ALL THE STARS, and watching meteors shoot by every minute or so. No light pollution at all, we were 40 miles or more from the nearest (small) town.

It was amazing. I was awake most of the night because I couldn't take my eyes off the sky.

First time I ever saw the Milky Way with my own eyes was camping in upstate NY. Never occurred to me how much the light pollution from Philly was obscuring the stars in the sky. Absolutely amazing.

97 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:51:54pm

re: #83 Kaessa

We went camping up in the mountains of Colorado this year at the height of the Perseids meteor shower. No tent, just an air mattress and some really great sleeping bags. Dogs on the bed with us, looking up at ALL THE STARS, and watching meteors shoot by every minute or so. No light pollution at all, we were 40 miles or more from the nearest (small) town.

It was amazing. I was awake most of the night because I couldn't take my eyes off the sky.

I see from your profile you are a photographer. Did you try for a shot of a meteor?

98 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:52:31pm

re: #91 Joanne

I know! I got the same model my mom had (but with stainless bowls instead of glass). Biggest benefit is weight. I have messed up hands and picking up a cusinart or one of those is impossible.

I paid $10 bucks for this baby (going rate was $40-$80). The cord is in the pic on the listing so they probably just forgot to throw it in the box. I hope. Cheesecake by hand is a bitch.

My daughter has a Magic Mill which she got as a wedding gift. I used it to make bread dough. That machine kneaded 5 lbs. of flour like it was a Duncan Hines cake mix! My Hobart has a 5-qt bowl but can only handle 2.5 lbs. of flour at a time, and I have to be careful the motor doesn't overheat. The newer model KitchenAids have a 6-qt. bowl but they will stall if you try to mix more than 2 lbs. of flour.

99 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:54:02pm

re: #96 Mattand

First time I ever saw the Milky Way with my own eyes was camping in upstate NY. Never occurred to me how much the light pollution from Philly was obscuring the stars in the sky. Absolutely amazing.

I've never lived in an area where I couldn't see the stars. I have a telescope - just a cheap Tasco - in the front room, and I sometimes roll it out on clear nights and go planet-gazing.

100 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:55:10pm

re: #98 Vicious Babushka

I've never seen one of those. But that one with the birdie on it is a piece of art!

101 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:56:18pm

re: #95 Joanne

After I make it, I will. I never write anything down. Hubby is diabetic and he loves my cheesecakes. I make all kinds of flavors, all with Splenda (and a few tablespoons of sugar).

I'll post it after I make it (sometimes they're not good enough to pass along...I'm a perfectionist).

Zedushka is also diabetic but he totally does not care what he eats. I totally have to go all Bloomberg on him and take away his Pepsi. I love making (and eating) fancy desserts but I can only make them when my kids are over.

I made a blueberry pie last week. It was one of the best pies I ever made. I ate like about 7/8's all by myself.

102 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:57:35pm

re: #99 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I'm from Chicago and had no idea there were so many stars up there. It was always a concept. The reality stunned. Truly.

103 Kaessa  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:58:40pm

re: #97 Political Atheist

I see from your profile you are a photographer. Did you try for a shot of a meteor?

No, my camera managed to stay in its case the entire time we were up there. I took some pics with my cell phone, but I was too lazy to get up and dig the camera out. I know, bad photographer.

By the time the shower really got going, we were already tucked into sleeping bags, and it was getting cold. I wasn't going to get out then. Did I mention that I had forgotten about the meteor shower until I started seeing them?

Yes, I'm a doofus.

104 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:59:29pm

re: #102 Joanne

I'm from Chicago and had no idea there were so many stars up there. It was always a concept. The reality stunned. Truly.

I've always been fascinated by stars and spaceflight. I actually own a copy of Microsoft Space Simulator somewhere. The closest I ever got to my dream of being in space was working on a live satellite that my university had hoped to launch.

105 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:59:57pm

re: #100 Joanne

I've never seen one of those. But that one with the birdie on it is a piece of art!

That is obviously a custom design. I would love to have one of those mixers, but they are really pricey.

Viking mixers are nice too.

106 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:00:41pm

re: #101 Vicious Babushka

I do sugar free pies, pudding deserts and tiramisu (with chocolate/rum quinoa instead of "ladyfingers"). I usually make a real Italian tiramisu, as well, for Xmas with the inlaws (all 60 of them).

107 Kaessa  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:00:56pm

re: #98 Vicious Babushka

My daughter has a Magic Mill which she got as a wedding gift. I used it to make bread dough. That machine kneaded 5 lbs. of flour like it was a Duncan Hines cake mix! My Hobart has a 5-qt bowl but can only handle 2.5 lbs. of flour at a time, and I have to be careful the motor doesn't overheat. The newer model KitchenAids have a 6-qt. bowl but they will stall if you try to mix more than 2 lbs. of flour.

I got one of the KitchenAid Pro models about 5 years ago. That thing can handle massive amounts of bread dough (sourdough, even) and just keep on going. I love it.

BTW, the KitchenAid mixers they sell at WalMart are actually a cheaper, crappier version of the regular ones. If you ever want to buy one, don't buy it there.

108 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:01:26pm

re: #103 Kaessa

I went out all prepped, I thought. Got one solitary streak. Next time it's shutter open all night long. Get the streaks and the stars arcing.

[Link: studio11photography.blogspot.com...]

109 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:02:02pm

re: #92 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Camping need not be austere. I have a really nice Therm-a-Rest 2" thick mattress for which I made a fitted sheet set. I take a pillow and blankets. Very comfy. My backpacking days are long gone...

110 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:03:08pm

re: #107 Kaessa

I got one of the KitchenAid Pro models about 5 years ago. That thing can handle massive amounts of bread dough (sourdough, even) and just keep on going. I love it.

BTW, the KitchenAid mixers they sell at WalMart are actually a cheaper, crappier version of the regular ones. If you ever want to buy one, don't buy it there.

I do not buy anything at Walmart.

111 Kaessa  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:03:13pm

re: #108 Political Atheist

I went out all prepped, I thought. Got one solitary streak. Next time it's shutter open all night long. Get the streaks and the stars arcing.

Yeah, that would be the way to do it. Plus you wouldn't be distracted and could actually watch the shower.

112 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:04:05pm

re: #109 calochortus

Camping need not be austere. I have a really nice Therm-a-Rest 2" thick mattress for which I made a fitted sheet set. I take a pillow and blankets. Very comfy. My backpacking days are long gone...

No, it doesn't have to be. I just like it that way. Most of the times I like my amenities - a good winter-rated sleeping bag, a not-so-cheap tent, a propane camping stove. But after experiencing being out in the woods with it just being me, a coat, a canteen and a large knife, I can understand the appeal.

113 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:04:15pm

re: #111 Kaessa

Added a link to the shot. Gotta do better than that one.

114 Kaessa  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:04:21pm

re: #110 Vicious Babushka

I do not buy anything at Walmart.

Me either. That is one of the many reasons. Cheap crappy versions of products so it makes you think you're getting a good deal.

115 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:04:21pm

re: #111 Kaessa

Yeah, that would be the way to do it. Plus you wouldn't be distracted and could actually watch the shower.

It's amazing how much of life one misses if one is always looking through a camera lens.

116 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:04:25pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

Holy crap! $600 for a mixer?? Wow.

117 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:05:45pm

re: #112 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

But after experiencing being out in the woods with it just being me, a coat, a canteen and a large knife, I can understand the appeal.

Maybe that part is a man thing.

118 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:05:50pm

re: #116 Joanne

Holy crap! $600 for a mixer?? Wow.

Pies are serious business.

119 Kaessa  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:06:06pm

re: #115 calochortus

It's amazing how much of life one misses if one is always looking through a camera lens.

QFT

I still do it way too much, though.

120 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:07:05pm

re: #117 calochortus

Maybe that part is a man thing.

Men have a natural gravitation to things that normal and sane people abhor. My father wants to go out ice fishing on one of the lakes. That is one even I can't understand.

121 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:08:24pm

re: #119 Kaessa

QFT

I still do it way too much, though.

Yeah, when the kids were growing up, I was the family photographer-and I'm really glad I have the photos, but it was amazing how differently I experienced things when I wasn't taking pictures.

122 JAFO  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:08:35pm

re: #81 calochortus

A college friend recommended snow camping because "it feels so good when you stop." I never felt the urge to start, myself.

I love snow camping, but it requires proper equipment. I used to spend Christmas to New Years in Yosemite every year. Then winter camping became popular and now you need reservations.

123 Kaessa  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:08:53pm

re: #117 calochortus

Maybe that part is a man thing.

That would be my husband. Sleeping bags on the ground, no tent. I told him I couldn't go camping unless we had a mattress, or I wouldn't be able to get up off the ground the next morning. I'm old and easily bruised.

124 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:09:31pm

re: #121 calochortus

Quite so. Plus to keep your eye fresh, you have to go out without the camera from time to time.

125 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:10:49pm

re: #123 Kaessa

Yeah, I did that kind of stuff in college-considering the camping I did without a tent, I wonder how I managed it without getting rained on.

126 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:11:23pm

When the wife and I moved from Florida to Alaska in 1989 we drove with everything we still owned and one dog packed into a Mercury Zephyr. A limited budget dictated camping most nights anyplace free with a stop every 2nd or 3rd day at someplace that cost money with showers.

We had all the AAA guides for every state we went through that listed all the campgrounds so it was not hard to find free places to camp. We took our time and played tourist, we hit all the national parks to see the sights, I actually had a lot of fun on that trip.

Warning do not go to the free campground on the "Mineral King Highway" in California. Details in the guide book were sketchy about location and it was early in the day to quit driving but there was nothing else close. So we turned off the main road onto mineral king and started up into the mountains, and up, and up, for 24 MILES! Mineral king by then was a lane and a half wide dirt track that switchbacked and climbed so steeply you often could not see past the nose of the car while going over the inclines.

We finally found the "campground" it was a large bulldozed flat space with two lonely BBQ grills sticking up out of it. The whole place sloped downhill at about a 20 degree angle to a sheer 300 foot drop off and was nothing but rocks and sand. Since the cliff had no fence or guardrail of any kind the dog spent his time tied to the bumper and we did our best to pitch a tent on ground either too hard or too soft for stakes. Sleeping at that much of an incline wasn't much fun either.

The next morning on the way down I badly overheated the brakes on the car twice while navigating my way back down to the main road. So yeah...

I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS CAMPGROUND!

lol

127 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:12:56pm

re: #122 JAFO

Reservations to snow camp? Sigh. I suppose so. Yosemite is so very beautiful, but I rarely go there because there are just too many people.

128 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:14:49pm

re: #116 Joanne

Holy crap! $600 for a mixer?? Wow.

Magic Mill is $750.

129 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:15:49pm

Hope to be able to chat tonight.

130 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:16:00pm

re: #81 calochortus

A college friend recommended snow camping because "it feels so good when you stop." I never felt the urge to start, myself.

Snow Camping is fun. The first year a Friend and I went (Penstemon Trail) we camped at the trail head. He Cross Country Skied while I Snow Shoed in. When we got back home, we found out that the County Sheriff office had called wanting to know if we were over due. When they were informed that we were up there camping, they wanted to know if we were crazy. Our wives told them they asked us the same question.

Need to find some of the pics I took and post them for you Lizards.

131 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:16:21pm

Imagine the needs to keep this bad boy running:

World’s oldest original working digital computer gets a reboot

Computing has come a long way. Take a look at this clip of the Harwell Dekatron, otherwise known as the Wolverhampton Instrument for Teaching Computation (WITCH). The supercomputer from 1951 was restored over a period of three years by experts at England's National Museum of Computing in Bletchley Park. This week, they rebooted the beast in front of reporters.

And what a beast it is. The world's oldest original working digital computer is the size of a garage door and resembles something from a campy science-fiction flick about Martian invaders. True its functionality is rather modest by today's standards (it can multiply two numbers in less than 10 seconds, for example), but darned if it isn't impressive to watch. Lights blink, tubes whir and switches flicker.

The BBC's Mark Gregory reports (at 13:55 in the broadcast) that the computer weighs about two and a half tons and comes from a time when there were really just a handful of supercomputers in the world. Restoration expert Kevin Morrell explains that "the alternative at this stage using mechanical calculators and slide rules."

Morrell continued: "This machine was built at Harwell, which is the U.K.'s atomic energy research establishment." The computer was built to take the tedious but necessary work of performing calculations away from the mathematicians and let them think about the big picture. The WITCH wasn't fast, but it was accurate. And when you're dealing with anything atomic, accuracy is kind of important.

132 JAFO  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:17:44pm

re: #127 calochortus

Reservations to snow camp? Sigh. I suppose so. Yosemite is so very beautiful, but I rarely go there because there are just too many people.

Back in the late 70s early 80s you could drive into Yosemite late at night and not have to pay $3 because the gate was unmanned, camping was free in winter, and if you left late in the evening you wouldn't have to pay $3 to get out.

133 Joanne  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:19:46pm

re: #128 Vicious Babushka

(Making mental note: do not get into making pies unless graham cracker crust will do!)

134 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:20:06pm

re: #132 JAFO

Not supporting our parks? Tsk, tsk.

135 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:21:01pm
“If you have a party that says not to talk about social issues, it’s going to be awfully hard to convince an electorate of why we should celebrate life,” said Bob Vander Plaats, the evangelical leader in Iowa who played an influential role in that state’s caucuses earlier this year.

Influence.. such as the influence cement shoes have on a guy tossed in a river.

136 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:22:04pm

Anthony Hopkins as Alfred Hitchcock. OMG YES.

137 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:22:56pm

re: #135 Kragar

Influence.. such as the influence cement shoes have on a guy tossed in a river.

Would that explain why the GOP's tent just showed up, wrapped around a fish?

//

138 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:23:11pm

re: #135 Kragar

So why should "celebrating life" be about quantity, not quality?

139 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:23:17pm

re: #133 Joanne

(Making mental note: do not get into making pies unless graham cracker crust will do!)

The heavy duty mixers are for bread dough. I would not use a mixer like that for a pie dough. You should make pie dough in a food processor or by hand, if you knead pie dough in a mixer it will come out too tough.

140 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:37:29pm

re: #138 calochortus

So why should "celebrating life" be about quantity, not quality?

Because its about controlling people, not about taking care of people.

141 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:39:04pm

re: #140 Kragar

Because its about controlling people, not about taking care of people.

Shhhhh. That's supposed to be a secret.

142 jaunte  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:43:45pm
143 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:47:26pm

Man I just spent 30 minutes reading through comments on Israel/gaza truce on HuffPo. The American left really has a hard time with reality where it concerns Israel. I get criticism of Israeli policy, settlements, Blockade (though I believe some form of blockade is required to prevent arms). What I don't get is the vast majority of posters there (who know nothing about the history of partition and the Balfour declaration, and the mandate all speaking as if Israel has no right to exist. It is really sad.

144 freetoken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:53:19pm

re: #131 Targetpractice

The article writer keeps using the term "supercomputer" as if they don't know what it means, or really what that British beast was.

145 dragonath  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:53:40pm

re: #131 Targetpractice

World’s oldest original working digital computer gets a reboot

I hope the tubes don't "whir"

lol

146 freetoken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:54:20pm

re: #143 Petero1818

Perhaps it is because they question the legitimacy of the British Empire to have made decisions on behalf of that little corner of the world?

147 freetoken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:55:14pm

re: #145 dragonath

It may have used electro-mechanical switches rotary style?

148 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:56:46pm

O.K. Found some pics of one of our Winter camps. These are from 1998.

This is a Pic of me getting ready to hit the trail.

Winter Camp 1998

149 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 8:58:45pm

re: #144 freetoken

The article writer keeps using the term "supercomputer" as if they don't know what it means, or really what that British beast was.

True. Then again, the term "supercomputer" didn't come about until the 60s, when Cray began building the first ones.

150 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:04:32pm

Damn! Clicked the wrong button and posted before I was finished.

Setting Up Camp. The Dome Tent is mine.
Image: Setting_Up_Camp.jpg

CT prepping his spot.
Image: Keep_Digging.jpg

CTs tent set up.
Image: CTs__1_Man_Tent.jpg

Relaxing after a good day of Snow Shoing.
Image: CT_having_a_smoke_and_Brew.jpg

Preping to leave.
Image: Next_Day.jpg

151 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:05:17pm

re: #144 freetoken

The article writer keeps using the term "supercomputer" as if they don't know what it means, or really what that British beast was.

It's big and was impressive for its day, hence its a 'supercomputer'. And the BMP is a 'tank'. Ignorant and badly researched journalism rears its ugly head.

152 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:07:36pm

re: #150 Bubblehead II

I'm glad you had fun-I still don't feel tempted by snow camping, though.

153 Petero1818  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:08:31pm

re: #146 freetoken

Perhaps it is because they question the legitimacy of the British Empire to have made decisions on behalf of that little corner of the world?

Well that may be except they don't seem to question the legitimacy of Jordan, Lebanon, and any of the other states that were only formed following the dissolution of the Ottoman empire.

154 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:09:17pm

re: #151 Dark_Falcon

It's big and was impressive for its day, hence its a 'supercomputer'. And the BMP is a 'tank'. Ignorant and badly researched journalism rears its ugly head.

BMP's an IFV, you FNG.

///

155 dragonath  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:13:19pm

re: #147 freetoken

Oh I think I know what they're talking about, the "whirring" probably refers to the spinning motion of a dekatron tube.

Image: dekatron-anim.gif

There's a video on Youtube showing the operation of the unit, lots of clonking and relay-switching.

156 freetoken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:15:29pm

re: #155 dragonath

Oh yes, the Dekatron. The 50's were a great time.

157 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:16:03pm
158 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:16:28pm

re: #154 Targetpractice

BMP's an IFV, you FNG.

///

Hence the placement of the term in apostrophes. I know damn well what a BMP is, but quite often it reported as a "tank", which I find annoying.

159 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:17:07pm
160 freetoken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:18:11pm

re: #153 Petero1818

Well that may be except they don't seem to question the legitimacy of Jordan, Lebanon, and any of the other states that were only formed following the dissolution of the Ottoman empire.

It came up infrequently, when the whole Iraq War (II) was about to kick off, and even after the invasion of Kuwait years earlier.

I've raised the issue a couple of times here, and in particular to the whole Pakistan/India division.

The UK set up nations with borders but the reality on the ground didn't necessarily comport to what London visualized.

161 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:18:19pm

re: #159 Four More Tears

[Embedded content]

Bull Moose: We're on our way to Wassila! Sarah Palin is next!!

///

162 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:18:59pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

Hence the placement of the term in apostrophes. I know damn well what a BMP is, but quite often it reported as a "tank", which I find annoying.

Like assault rifles being called machine guns.

163 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:19:19pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

Hence the placement of the term in apostrophes. I know damn well what a BMP is, but quite often it reported as a "tank", which I find annoying.

Hence my joking. But yeah, the press tends to do only the bare minimum research so much of the time. Though Hollywood's worse, especially when it comes to matters of a military nature.

164 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:20:15pm

Homeland Security spent $430M on radios its employees don't know how to use

In a response letter to the report, Jim H. Crumpacker, the Department of Homeland Security's liaison between the Government Accountability Office and the inspector general, wrote that DHS had made "significant strides" in improving emergency communications since 2003. But he acknowledged that DHS "has had some challenges in achieving Department-wide interoperable communications goals."

Crumpacker?

165 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:21:17pm

re: #162 Kragar

Like assault rifles being called machine guns.

I am required to post this by law.

Image: index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv620%2Ftheweaselking%2Fmain4%2F77d3d70b.jpg

166 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:22:40pm

re: #165 Four More Tears

I am required to post this by law.

Image: index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv620%2Ftheweaselking%2Fmain4%2F77d3d70b.jpg

Or the AK-47 recoilless rifle.

167 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:24:28pm

re: #165 Four More Tears

I am required to post this by law.

Image: index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv620%2Ftheweaselking%2Fmain4%2F77d3d70b.jpg

Too much explanation and you lose your audience. The important thing is to scare them enough to keep them watching. The network is depending on you increase our news division's profits, so get out there and bend the truth into a pretzel!!

///

168 jaunte  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:25:39pm

TVTropes:

Red Dawn 1984 had the mistake in-movie where one of the cast called a ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" Self-Propelled-Anti-Aircraft-Gun a tank. Granted these were typical high school kids with no formal military knowledge. The film did have rather accurate T-72 mock-ups, to the extent that (allegedly) the CIA demanded to know where the film-makers got them.
[Link: tvtropes.org...]

169 dragonath  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:26:46pm
170 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:30:16pm

re: #152 calochortus

I'm glad you had fun-I still don't feel tempted by snow camping, though.

We did. Our Wives thought we were totally fucking nuts though (as well as a bunch of others).

Sadly, alcohol and meth took him away from both his Wife and Family and me.

Haven't found anybody else who has the same interest in doing it though.

Thinking about doing a solo trip this year. The Wife is going to have a shit fit when I broach it though.

171 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:32:32pm

re: #159 Four More Tears

Reminds me of "Swan Lake, Minnesota" shown on PBS back in the '80s I think. Based on Swan Lake, this particular ballet ends with hunters tying the 'swan' ballerina, tutu and all, to the roof of their vehicle and heading home.

172 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:34:27pm

re: #170 Bubblehead II

Sorry about your buddy.
I sympathize with your wife-maybe you can go somewhere where you have cell phone reception so she can be reassured that you won't die alone in the frozen wilderness?

173 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:35:52pm

re: #150 Bubblehead II

Is that last one you?

174 stabby  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:36:57pm

Well it's weird.
If you take out the social conservatives then all that's left of the Republican platform is extreme social Darwinism.

Trying to crash the financial system (lower taxes, spend more on military) so that we don't have medicare and we trash social security and we trash obamacare may be even less popular than social conservative issues.

I think there was a short moment before he walked it back and said "no health care exchanges" when Bobby Jindal stood up for social programs, saying that things like Medicare are needed and that people shouldn't be insulted for having needs.

That was striking. That was the sort of thing where, if you said that during the election on any Republican site they wouldn't call you a RINO, they'd call you a communist and ban you. By the way now I see a weird bifurcation on Republican sites were some commenters are saying that Republicans should give in on taxing and spending and some are saying that they should give in on religious issues. It's odd that people are occasionally saying things that would have gotten everyone abused and banned before the election.

I felt that Jindal could only get away with supporting social spending because he's well known as a hard right social conservative. Apparently if you teach the children that the earth is 6000 years old, then you're not required to starve granny and make her die without medicine under a bridge - or to insure that the poor of your own generation die that way.

But we'll see if the party can turn back from the brink. If the rule is "you have to be a neanderthal on HALF of the issues, either sex and religion OR destroying the environment and the poor" I don't see how they have a party.

And if they could walk back BOTH kinds of issues then there would be no difference between the Democrats and Republicans, and they won't accept that possibility either, that would be admitting that their attitude has been very very wrong.

175 jaunte  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:37:27pm

Attention photographers:

14 hour exposure: The electricity powering the lightbulb inside the orange is generated through a chemical reaction between citric acid and the zinc nails inserted into each wedge.
[Link: www.thisiscolossal.com...]

176 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:39:16pm

re: #171 calochortus

Reminds me of "Swan Lake, Minnesota" shown on PBS back in the '80s I think. Based on Swan Lake, this particular ballet ends with hunters tying the 'swan' ballerina, tutu and all, to the roof of their vehicle and heading home.

So she was treated to the Seamus Experience, then?

177 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:40:12pm

re: #176 Dark_Falcon

So she was treated to the Seamus Experience, then?

Yes, but I think she was supposed to be dead at the time.

178 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:44:20pm

re: #172 calochortus

Sorry about your buddy.
I sympathize with your wife-maybe you can go somewhere where you have cell phone reception so she can be reassured that you won't die alone in the frozen wilderness?

If I go, there will be no cell phone coverage. But not to worry, there is a Ski Lodge within 5 miles (as the crow fly's) from my prospective camp ground.

179 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:44:36pm

Time for bed. Hasta mañana.

180 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:44:55pm

re: #173 Four More Tears

Is that last one you?

Yes. 14 years ago.

181 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:45:51pm

re: #178 Bubblehead II

Possibly not good enough-5 miles is a long way when you're dying in a frozen wilderness with wolves circling and a broken leg... Just sayin'. We wives worry.

182 calochortus  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:46:55pm

Now I'm really out.

183 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:46:59pm

re: #180 Bubblehead II

Yes. 14 years ago.

Wow. You looked like my dad.

184 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 9:49:31pm

re: #151 Dark_Falcon

It's big and was impressive for its day, hence its a 'supercomputer'. And the BMP is a 'tank'. Ignorant and badly researched journalism rears its ugly head.

Well...how about the BMP-T it is a T-72 hull after all...

[Link: www.tanknutdave.com...]

lawls

185 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:00:03pm

re: #184 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Well...how about the BMP-T it is a T-72 hull after all...

[Link: www.tanknutdave.com...]

lawls

What it needs is portholes on the side for a squad to stick its rifles out of.
/

186 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:00:52pm
187 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:05:17pm

I will say this, if the goal for The Walking Dead video game was to match or exceed the TV show in goriness and shocking moments, then mission accomplished. I can probably count on one hand the number of games I've seen where amputating a limb was that visceral.

188 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:06:20pm

re: #187 Targetpractice

I will say this, if the goal for The Walking Dead video game was to match or exceed the TV show in goriness and shocking moments, then mission accomplished. I can probably count on one hand the number of games I've seen where amputating a limb was that visceral.

Speaking of which, big sale on Steam today for, oh, just about everything. Picking up the Skyrim expansion for less than $14 now.

189 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:07:55pm

re: #187 Targetpractice

I will say this, if the goal for The Walking Dead video game was to match or exceed the TV show in goriness and shocking moments, then mission accomplished. I can probably count on one hand the number of games I've seen where amputating a limb was that visceral.

You get the one off of Steam?

I broke down and picked up the Gods and Kings expansion for Civ 5

190 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:08:51pm

re: #181 calochortus

Possibly not good enough-5 miles is a long way when you're dying in a frozen wilderness with wolves circling and a broken leg... Just sayin'. We wives worry.

Thanks for the concern. Haven't made up my mind if I am actually going to do this yet. Need snow and what we have received so far has melted off.

191 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:10:22pm

re: #183 Four More Tears

Wow. You looked like my dad.

I hope that was a good thing.

192 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:10:48pm

re: #189 Kragar

You get the one off of Steam?

I broke down and picked up the Gods and Kings expansion for Civ 5

Not yet, though I'm trying to decide between it, G&K, or just picking up FO3:GOTY for $5.

193 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:13:05pm

re: #192 Targetpractice

Not yet, though I'm trying to decide between it, G&K, or just picking up FO3:GOTY for $5.

Can't go wrong with Fallout. I might pick up Galactic Empires as long as its on sale.

194 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:14:42pm

re: #193 Kragar

Can't go wrong with Fallout. I might pick up Galactic Empires as long as its on sale.

It just figures that these sales always go on just before I get paid.

195 Four More Tears  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:24:19pm

re: #191 Bubblehead II

I hope that was a good thing.

Yeah, I loved my dad.

196 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:34:31pm

Right Wing Invents New Bengahzi Conspiracy Theory: Top U.S. Intel Official Is A Liar

The Republicans’ new focus of attack in the faux “Benghazi-gate” scandal is Director of National Intelligence (DNI) James Clapper, claiming that he lied about the source of changes to talking points on the Benghazi attack given to U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice.

Yesterday, a DNI spokesperson debunked accusations made by Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and other Republicans that the White House changed Rice’s Benghazi talking points, saying that it was the intelligence community that made the “substantive” changes to the talking points. Moreover, former CIA head David Petraeus and other top intelligence officials have said there was no politicization of the process and that the talking points were not altered to minimize the role of extremists but to reflect the best intelligence at the time.

McCain appeared to accept the new information but wondered why Clapper and other DNI officials did not provide this information during closed door hearings last week. And now that all their earlier attacks on Rice have fell apart, Republicans and conservative media figures are directing their attacks at Clapper, a George W. Bush appointee:

197 freetoken  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:37:25pm

re: #174 stabby

Well it's weird.
If you take out the social conservatives then all that's left of the Republican platform is extreme social Darwinism.

Irony, that.

198 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:39:00pm

re: #196 Kragar

Right Wing Invents New Bengahzi Conspiracy Theory: Top U.S. Intel Official Is A Liar

It's like I said earlier, this has become another F&F, where their only explanation at this point is that anybody whose testimony doesn't perpetuate their conspiracy is "in on it."

199 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 10:58:45pm

re: #198 Targetpractice

It's like I said earlier, this has become another F&F, where their only explanation at this point is that anybody whose testimony doesn't perpetuate their conspiracy is "in on it."

Yup, the whole time leading up to Petraeus testifying was "will he do the right thing or will he back up Obama's story?"

200 danhenry1  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:08:04pm

Let's hope for a better world. A safe place for all of us, here in our own fantastic country, and for the peoples of Israel, of Egypt, the Palistinians, our friends in Cuba and Argentina. We have a growing trade with Vietnam, and we should help feed and educate those in the Koreas. The Chinese should help us with this. Europe can go a long way towards helping the nations of Africa, a place that we all, every one of us can call 'home'.
There is a whole world that needs caring, education, and early childhood development. I would say that in this, and all of my thoughts, I am, Pro-life, and very pro choice, and pro family.
Salud, give thanks, enjoy family, friends, and strangers on this Thanksgiving day. Then get ready by rolling up your sleeves, we got a ton of work to do. Lets start with Peace.
Dan

201 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:08:15pm

re: #199 Kragar

Yup, the whole time leading up to Petraeus testifying was "will he do the right thing or will he back up Obama's story?"

Before this week, it was "Petraeus said it Al-Q was in the talking points, Rice lied!," before that it was "Petraeus will tell us the truth, Obama will be toast!," before that it was "The CIA will tell us the truth!," and before that it was "Hillary will tell us the truth!"

You notice that the pattern seems to be everybody who will tell them what they figure to be "the truth" is now considered "in on it"?

202 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:12:10pm
203 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:12:25pm

Gee, that's lovely. Get ready to grab FO3:GOTY on Steam and I see this big sign across the top: "Fallout 3 not optimized to run on Windows 7." Oy.

204 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:13:28pm

re: #203 Targetpractice

Gee, that's lovely. Get ready to grab FO3:GOTY on Steam and I see this big sign across the top: "Fallout 3 not optimized to run on Windows 7." Oy.

Feh.

205 Kragar  Wed, Nov 21, 2012 11:56:33pm

Finishing up a army and now that I have it all together, it just seems to be missing something visually. Technically, its got a good consistent theme, but it just seems to be missing something to set it off to the eye.

206 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 12:07:52am

re: #68 watching you tiny alien kittens are

O.T. I just had a thought about how to shut down all the people advocating for their states to secede from the United States. Just tell them they can only secede if their state pays its per capita share of the National Debt first.

We could call it the: "We ain't letting you walk away and leave us holding the bag Act" so they'd understand the message. :p

///

Do you think any of these peawits has thought the issue of secession through? It is just an ongoing temper tantrum.

207 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 12:09:48am

re: #67 Joanne

Like winter camping...makes NO sense to me.

We were on the mesa halfway into the Grand Canyon in winter of 1990, it was balmy and warm during the day, even in the evening. But at night the Grand Canyon fills up with cold air pouring in from the rim like an enormous bathtub, and sometime around 3am I would wake up, freezing my butt off and not be able to get back to sleep...

208 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 12:18:47am

re: #205 Kragar

Finishing up a army and now that I have it all together, it just seems to be missing something visually. Technically, its got a good consistent theme, but it just seems to be missing something to set it off to the eye.

Yes, there is always some point when the figures start to "sing", sometimes it is a small detail, like brass buttons on a greatcoat or white piping on black trim.

We are celebrating the weekend with another Napoleonic gaming blowout, probably Borodino, as we did not get a chance to do it in September. (At this point in 1812, the French were stuck in a blizzard trying to get across the Berezina back into Poland).

209 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 12:21:04am

Fuck, that was a seriously fucked way to end the first season. I can't bring myself to spoil it, but I will say that The Walking Dead video game is every bit as visceral and emotional as the show.

210 Kragar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 12:30:03am

re: #208 Sol Berdinowitz

Yes, there is always some point when the figures start to "sing", sometimes it is a small detail, like brass buttons on a greatcoat or white piping on black trim.

We are celebrating the weekend with another Napoleonic gaming blowout, probably Borodino, as we did not get a chance to do it in September. 8(At this point in 1812, the French were stuck in a blizzard trying to get across the Berezina back into Poland).

Its my own fault. Went with black fatigues, olive drab body armor, dark brown boots and webbing, trimmed with a medium grey that was washed with black to bring out the details. I've been messing around trying to add a cammie pattern or pickout some other details to pick out with a brighter color and its just hasn't come together yet.

211 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 12:33:08am

re: #210 Kragar

At least in Napoleonics, the day is won by the army that makes the boldest fashion statement...

212 Kragar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 12:53:57am

re: #211 Sol Berdinowitz

At least in Napoleonics, the day is won by the army that makes the boldest fashion statement...

Well, if you're going to a fight, you should clash.

213 abolitionist  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 1:13:05am

re: #175 jaunte

Attention photographers:

I noticed that the orange battery is "shorted" in a perfectly symmetrical way. There is no other "useful output" other than the weak light from the chemical reaction that drives the current. That's one impressive photo.

If I were doing a chemistry text, I'd want that pic.

214 abolitionist  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 1:24:54am

Correction. Not "shorted". The LED is nestled with in the bounds of the orange wedges. [Link: calebcharland.com...]

215 RadicalModerate  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 1:29:14am

Regarding the topic of this thread, it is worth mentioning that it was almost exactly one year ago today that Vander Plaats's "Family Leader" organization was a sponsor of a rather extremist forum that had as one of its stated goals to nullify America's secular court system and instill their own version of theocratic rule.

From Slate:
Rule of Lord: The Republican plan to nullify the courts and establish Christian theocracy.

This forum was attended by most of the Republican Party's primary field for the 2012 Presidential race, and was the forum that had the rather dubious "loyalty oath" that the candidates were encouraged to (and several did) sign.

This is the guide from Vander Plaats "Champion the Vote" website.
[Link: championthevote.com...]

216 researchok  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 1:31:41am

Morning all

217 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 1:36:10am

re: #215 RadicalModerate

This wing of the GOP is not going to go away, even after the defeat in 2012. In fact, they will probably gain ground again in 2014 as they did in 2010 and see this as a sign to double down once more.

218 Kragar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 1:38:01am

What is best in life?

William Shatner as the murderer on Columbo

219 freetoken  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 1:44:28am

Chet Baker:

220 researchok  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 1:49:24am

re: #219 freetoken

OK, you did it.

I'm officially in the mood for the holiday season.

Great piece- the piano/horn thing is magic.

221 sagehen  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 1:55:44am

re: #217 Sol Berdinowitz

This wing of the GOP is not going to go away, even after the defeat in 2012. In fact, they will probably gain ground again in 2014 as they did in 2010 and see this as a sign to double down once more.

They'll gain more ground because more and more moderate conservatives, even some very conservative people, will have finally had enough of them and will start calling themselves independents. The crazy will become more and more concentrated amongst those who still call themselves Republican.

222 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 2:09:36am

re: #221 sagehen

They'll gain more ground because more and more moderate conservatives, even some very conservative people, will have finally had enough of them and will start calling themselves independents. The crazy will become more and more concentrated amongst those who still call themselves Republican.

They will continue the dynamic that has turned into a death grip on the GOP: securing an ever-larger share of an ever-shrinking demographic.

And as long as these goombahs control the primary process, they will stifle any attempts for the party to learn from its mistakes.

223 freetoken  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:07:21am
224 geoduck  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:16:52am

At the very least, the GOP has to run a "real" hard-core right-wing candidate for President (and lose) before anything will begin to change.

225 iossarian  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:21:59am

re: #224 geoduck

At the very least, the GOP has to run a "real" hard-core right-wing candidate for President (and lose) before anything will begin to change.

Speaking as someone who has lived in a variety of centrist European countries I am astounded that anyone could think that Romney/Ryan was anything other than a "real hard-core right-wing" ticket.

The fact that there are lunatics in America who are even more right-wing than Romney and his bro does not diminish their own right-wing extremism.

Ryan hasn't had the insight that the folks in Galt's Gulch would probably club together to get some roads built. 'Nuff said.

226 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:22:01am

re: #224 geoduck

At the very least, the GOP has to run a "real" hard-core right-wing candidate for President (and lose) before anything will begin to change.

Which they might well have done with Rick Santorum if Sheldon Adelson had not intervened and supported Newt Gingrich to split the "real conservative" vote in the primaries and allow Mitt to get his delegates together without a floor fight.

I always wondered why Sheldon A donated such enormous sums to Newt, especially after he came out so strongly in favor of Mitt.

227 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:35:28am

re: #224 geoduck

At the very least, the GOP has to run a "real" hard-core right-wing candidate for President (and lose) before anything will begin to change.

Romney was a really hard-core right wing candidate, he was just the slightly wrong flavor for the wingnut base to really embrace as their own. But make no mistake, he's really wildly socially conservative, he's completely Ayn Randian fiscally 'conservative'.

Those people who fooled themselves into thinking he was moderate didn't really examine his record in Massachussets that well. He said a lot of 'moderate' things, but in action he was very 'conservative'. Even "romneycare", remember, started out as a conservative-championed idea: making people buy health insurance was forcing responsibility.

228 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:37:44am

re: #227 Obdicut

Romney was a really hard-core right wing candidate, he was just the slightly wrong flavor for the wingnut base to really embrace as their own. But make no mistake, he's really wildly socially conservative, he's completely Ayn Randian fiscally 'conservative'.

Those people who fooled themselves into thinking he was moderate didn't really examine his record in Massachussets that well. He said a lot of 'moderate' things, but in action he was very 'conservative'. Even "romneycare", remember, started out as a conservative-championed idea: making people buy health insurance was forcing responsibility.

He was conservative in many ways but clearly pro-choice back then.

229 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:41:26am

re: #228 Sol Berdinowitz

He was conservative in many ways but clearly pro choice back then.

No, he wasn't. His actual actions as governor as Massachusetts say otherwise. He vetoed a bill that gives women who were raped access to day-after emergency contraception. The veto was overridden, but he vetoed it.

At most, you can say that he, in some cases, didn't oppose being pro-choice. He himself wasn't, and in many significant cases, like the above veto, he showed he wasn't.

230 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:45:12am

re: #229 Obdicut

No, he wasn't. His actual actions as governor as Massachusetts say otherwise. He vetoed a bill that gives women who were raped access to day-after emergency contraception. The veto was overridden, but he vetoed it.

At most, you can say that he, in some cases, didn't oppose being pro-choice. He himself wasn't, and in many significant cases, like the above veto, he showed he wasn't.

I guess you are right, I seem to recall him saying he supported the right to shoose, but it was just another one of those things he thought he had to say to get elected...

231 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 3:50:41am

re: #230 Sol Berdinowitz

I guess you are right, I seem to recall him saying he supported the right to shoose, but it was just another one of those things he thought he had to say to get elected...

He didn't always oppose abortion access back then, but he did in many cases. That's the best that can be said for him on that front, and there's no reason to believe that, when he wasn't faced with an entirely Democratic supermajority against him, he'd continue to be at all supportive of abortion rights.

232 Flounder  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 4:19:20am

Good morning!
I would like to wish everyone here a happy Thanksgiving! If you are traveling have a very safe trip as well. Last night (and last year) My wife and I really enjoyed this documentary about a man who hatched wild turkey eggs and was their "mommy" for about two years. Absolutely fascinating, this stuff never ceases to amaze me. I wouldn't watch right before your turkey dinner, turkeys are pretty damn smart and cute, especially when they "talk"
Gobble!
[Link: www.pbs.org...]

233 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 5:33:03am

Happy Thanksgiving lizards!

234 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 5:36:43am

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone...or as they say on the internets, Goebbels, Goebbels.
/godwinwealllose

235 Henchman Ghazi-808  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 5:46:02am

/Benghaziwin

236 Henchman Ghazi-808  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 5:48:49am

Happy Thanksgiving. I'm spending the day working on new contracts and proposals. Very happy.

237 Henchman Ghazi-808  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 5:52:42am
If he (Obama) runs into a burning building tomorrow and saves four kids he’s gonna be the biggest goddamn hero Fox News ever saw, but if he leaves four guys behind on the battlefield but can’t explain it, then he’s gonna have a problem with Fox News.

Roger Ailes

Hm.... 4 people died in Benghazi.... Benghazi, or Benghazi? Or Benghazi?

238 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 5:59:06am
239 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:01:09am

Happy Thanksgiving to all of my fellow Lizards.

re: #238 darthstar

That is because Rick does not know how to shop. /

240 Interesting Times  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:02:31am

Good morning LGF! Who wants some weapons-grade dead-thread derp to start the day?

Teh global warming AGW is an affront to God Almighty!!!11!ty

50% of Americans believe in Young Earth Creation, therefore it be troo durr hurr

(and this is exactly the kind of creature demanding - and getting - a seat at the GOP table)

241 Stanghazi  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:02:58am

[Link: m.cbsnews.com...]

Father says son is not a malicious monkey murderer.

Happy TG!

242 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:03:58am

re: #241 Stanghazi

TG? Thanksgiving?

243 Stanghazi  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:05:01am

re: #242 PhillyPretzel

TG? Thanksgiving?

Ya!

244 A Mom Anon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:06:06am

Just popping in to say Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. I hope the coming year brings all of you peace, prosperity and joy. I've enjoyed being a part of the conversations here, so thank all of you for allowing me to join in and be a part of things. I've learned alot here, and for that I am thankful.

245 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:07:29am

re: #242 PhillyPretzel

TG? Thanksgiving?

In the context of monkey-murdering it could have been Throbbing Gristle.


No, wait...that's spanking...sorry.

246 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:13:02am

(Remember when they were "humanizing" Mitt and showed him at home? He takes his plate first and is usually done eating before everyone else reaches the table. So sweet.)

247 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:22:54am

Here's a little classic holiday favorite to help get your day going...

248 Henchman Ghazi-808  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:28:05am

i like dark meat

249 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:30:37am

you mean blah meat?

250 Henchman Ghazi-808  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:34:37am

white meat is the blah meat. Dark meat = mo flavor
probably because it has more fat in it

251 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:35:25am

Dark meat all the way. I'll eat a little bit of turkey breast, but it's the back and thighs I like best.

252 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:39:54am

Happy Thanksgiving all, Kasey & I just finished our morning walk and we have a lot to be thankful for. I'll thank modern science and medicine first though it's now 2 years and 4 months since I needed a quintuple bypass to live.

253 Henchman Ghazi-808  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:40:12am

the neck is always a treat

254 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:40:18am

but it's not white, you see, and therefore inferior...

255 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:41:42am

re: #254 Sol Berdinowitz

White turkey meat's not bad ....


... if you put salt, pepper, gravy, and some cranberry goo on it.

256 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:46:01am

Toms just get to strut around...it's the hens who get cooked. Now, if you're hatched on a turkey farm, that's a different story...the toms all get their little necks snapped before they're a few days old.

257 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:46:31am

re: #253 Henchman Ghazi-808

the neck is always a treat

Goes into the gravy.

258 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:48:37am

Happy Thanksghazi

259 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:51:11am

How many of these dimwits could find Benghazi on a map? They just know that it is further proof that Obama hates America and coddles terrorists because he is a secret Muslim, etc...

260 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:56:10am
261 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 6:59:25am

In the spirit of the season, I'm going to my brother's, eating his food, then giving his children smallpox. #Thanksgiving

262 Henchman Ghazi-808  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:01:56am

re: #261 darthstar

In the spirit of the season, I'm going to my brother's, eating his food, then giving his children smallpox. #Thanksgiving

... in a nice wool blanket.

263 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:09:03am

re: #198 Targetpractice

It's like I said earlier, this has become another F&F, where their only explanation at this point is that anybody whose testimony doesn't perpetuate their conspiracy is "in on it."

Only in mythology are the two the same: 'Fast and Furious' was a genuine major policy failure. It didn't go all the way to the top, but it went far enough to be a black eye for the Department of Justice. Benghazi was, at worst, a bad decision made about security. It doesn't represent any sort of systematic problem in the way offices were being run.

264 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:09:31am
265 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:10:56am

re: #259 Sol Berdinowitz

How many of these dimwits could find Benghazi on a map? They just know that it is further proof that Obama hates America and coddles terrorists because he is a secret Muslim, etc...

I admit I can, but that's because it held some relevance during the 2nd World War. But I only really knew it as the small place it was back then. Now its a major city with major city problems.

266 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:11:30am

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

Neither Fast & Furious nor Benghazi helped Mitt Romney defeat President Obama. They're the same level of bat-shit crazy scandal wishing by wingnuts.

267 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:14:04am

re: #256 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Toms just get to strut around...it's the hens who get cooked. Now, if you're hatched on a turkey farm, that's a different story...the toms all get their little necks snapped before they're a few days old.

As whole turkeys. The toms are still used for sliced turkey meat, and a turkey sandwich featuring meat from a young tom turkey has long been part of the menu at the Berghoff in downtown Chicago.

268 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:15:38am

ut oh... it's time to chop a bushel of onions... where'd I put those swimming goggles?

269 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:16:41am

re: #268 Randall Gross

ut oh... it's time to chop a bushel of onions... where'd I put those swimming goggles?

Onions are gross.

270 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:19:12am

re: #266 darthstar

Neither Fast & Furious nor Benghazi helped Mitt Romney defeat President Obama. They're the same level of bat-shit crazy scandal wishing by wingnuts.

No, 'Fast & Furious' was a genuine scandal, but its one that Darryl Issa should have been investigated as the mid-level fuck-up it was, instead of wasting months fruitlessly trying to tie it to Eric Holder. Had he done that, though, few would have kept paying attention. That's a problem, when doing your job rights gets you ignored, but screwing it up gets you applauded.

271 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:27:11am

All done. It goes fast when you've had 29+ years of practice chopping onions for your wife. I had to use the water trick because I couldn't find the goggles. (if you wash the saline out of your eyes with plain water before you chop, they won't sting because plain water doesn't react to form an acid when encountering onion fumes while saline solutions do.)

272 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:27:49am

re: #269 Inconsequential Consequence

Onions are grossdelicious.

There.

273 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:29:01am

re: #270 Dark_Falcon

No, 'Fast & Furious' was a genuine scandal, but its one that Darryl Issa should have been investigated as the mid-level fuck-up it was, instead of wasting months fruitlessly trying to tie it to Eric Holder. Had he done that, though, few would have kept paying attention. That's a problem, when doing your job rights gets you ignored, but screwing it up gets you applauded.

In both cases, it was the RW media reality bubble that kept them going: both were seen as proof again of the RW matter of doctrine that Obama hates America and is soft on drugs/terror/illegal immigration, etc...

And whatever supports that position is afforded a special place on the news broadcasts. And since news itself is news, it becomes a self-perpetuating clusterf*ck.

274 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:29:14am

re: #271 Randall Gross

All done. It goes fast when you've had 29+ years of practice chopping onions for your wife. I had to use the water trick because I couldn't find the goggles. (if you wash the saline out of your eyes with plain water before you chop, they won't sting because plain water doesn't react to form an acid when encountering onion fumes while saline solutions do.)

If I had to chop onions, I wouldn't, but if I did, I'd pluck my eyes out first.

Me hates onions.

275 b_sharp  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:30:57am

re: #272 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

There.

Obviously the onion lobby has gotten to you. So, was it money or power that drew you to the onion side?

276 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:33:00am

re: #275 Inconsequential Consequence

Obviously the onion lobby has gotten to you. So, was it money or power that drew you to the onion side?

He took a leek

277 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:33:36am

Cut onions under water.

278 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:33:50am

re: #272 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

There.

The problem with onions is that, while they are indeed delicious, you can't simply eat them and be done with it. No, you have to eat them and then suffer the consequences of them for long and lonely hours afterward.

279 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:34:02am

re: #275 Inconsequential Consequence

Obviously the onion lobby has gotten to you. So, was it money or power that drew you to the onion side?

Lettuce not worry about the money.

280 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:34:24am

re: #277 Varek Raith

Cut onions under water.

You're trying to trick us into attracting sharks.

281 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:34:59am

re: #280 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

You're trying to trick us into attracting sharks.

LIES!

282 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:36:02am

re: #281 Varek Raith

LIES!

Well it's either sharks or drowning, one.

283 Randall Gross  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:36:31am

re: #276 Sol Berdinowitz

He took a leek

That's because he's a real rapScallion.

284 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:36:35am

Morning Lizards.

285 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:42:23am

Thanksgiving greetings from ((wait for it)),,, HOME

Co-workers kicked me out an hour and a half early!!

286 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:43:11am

re: #274 Inconsequential Consequence

Onion Goggles. [Link: www.cooksillustrated.com...]

Amazon has them [Link: www.amazon.com...]

287 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:45:09am

re: #285 sattv4u2

Thanksgiving greetings from ((wait for it)),,, HOME

Co-workers kicked me out an hour and a half early!!

Glad that happened for you. Enjoy today.

288 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:47:15am

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

Glad that happened for you. Enjoy today.

Yeah. Pleasant surprise. I wasn't even supposed to leave till 11:00 at the earliest, more likely 1;00 after the 1st NFL game was up and running and all the European and South American stations checked in

Will most likely hit the hay for a few hours though

289 Turkey Jihad  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:49:43am

I want to wish a Happy Thanksgiving to all our troops around the world, as well as the firefighters, police, and EMS that bust their tails to keep us safe/alive.

290 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:50:09am

re: #288 sattv4u2

Yeah. Pleasant surprise. I wasn't even supposed to leave till 11:00 at the earliest, more likely 1;00 after the 1st NFL game was up and running and all the European and South American stations checked in

Will most likely hit the hay for a few hours though

Why would anyone hit hay?
What did it ever do to you?

291 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:50:49am

re: #290 Varek Raith

Why would anyone hit hay?
What did it ever do to you?

Hay is for horses, and I can't abide a horse supporter.

292 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:51:02am

re: #290 Varek Raith

Why would anyone hit hay?
What did it ever do to you?

SMACK!

293 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:51:19am

re: #290 Varek Raith

Why would anyone hit hay?
What did it ever do to you?

It's often kicked me out of it after a mere 3-4 hours of sleep!

294 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:51:49am

re: #290 Varek Raith

Why would anyone hit hay?
What did it ever do to you?

PLUS ,,when I was a kid,, it gave me a fever

295 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:52:12am

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

SMACK!

Sat's not the only one who can drop joke bombs.
:P

296 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:52:21am

re: #291 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Hay is for horses, and I can't abide a horse supporter.

How about an athletic supporter

297 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:53:46am

BBL, family lunch.

298 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:56:25am

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

BBL, family lunch.

cannibal

299 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:57:07am

...
My neighbor is playing Christmas music.
Debating on whether to slap him or not.
/

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:57:38am

Morning Honcos. Since Tuesday at 5AM I have had 2 hours of sleep. I'm tired.

301 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:58:26am

re: #299 Varek Raith

...
My neighbor is playing Christmas music.
Debating on whether to slap him or not.
/

aim your speakers at their house and crank it up

302 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 7:59:05am

re: #300 King of the Douche, now you may bow

Morning Honcos. Since Tuesday at 5AM I have had 2 hours of sleep. I'm tired.

Yet here you are, awake and bitching to us!

Gee,, thanks

303 Jolo5309  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:00:44am

re: #208 Sol Berdinowitz

Yes, there is always some point when the figures start to "sing", sometimes it is a small detail, like brass buttons on a greatcoat or white piping on black trim.

We are celebrating the weekend with another Napoleonic gaming blowout, probably Borodino, as we did not get a chance to do it in September. (At this point in 1812, the French were stuck in a blizzard trying to get across the Berezina back into Poland).

What system do you play?

I am not a Napoleonics guy, but I play a few other games casually

304 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:00:55am

re: #302 sattv4u2

Yet here you are, awake and bitching to us!

Gee,, thanks

I put the "giving" in Thanksgiving. Wait, I also put in the "Thanks".
/

305 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:05:16am

re: #303 Jolo5309

What system do you play?

I am not a Napoleonics guy, but I play a few other games casually

I use Rank & File, a pretty basic set of rules.

But my wargaming buddy did not like any of the ready-made rules, so he hasspent most of the past three years devising his own rules based on a very basic set. Will will be trying that out this weekend.

306 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:09:45am

Deputies say New Port Richey man tore some skin off 2-year-old boy
NEW PORT RICHEY — Deputies arrested a man Tuesday after, they say, he twisted a 2-year-old boy's nipples so hard they came off.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
WTF?

307 Jolo5309  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:09:48am

re: #305 Sol Berdinowitz

I use Rank & File, a pretty basic set of rules.

But my wargaming buddy did not like any of the ready-made rules, so he hasspent most of the past three years devising his own rules based on a very basic set. Will will be trying that out this weekend.

He sounds like a guy I know here, he plays a generic kind of 15th-17th century game, it is 1 page long that he wrote himself.

I play DBA more than anything.

308 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:14:01am

re: #306 King of the Douche, now you may bow

That's awful!

Happy Thanksgiving, Lizards!

309 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:15:10am

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Feline Overlord's favorite holiday. No fireworks, and lots of *delicious* cooked fowl to eat. (Eat those potatoes and cranberries hu-man staff. Fill yourselves up and thus leave more turkey for me!)

310 jaunte  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:15:23am

Saudi Arabia implements electronic tracking system for women

Denied the right to travel without consent from their male guardians and banned from driving, women in Saudi Arabia are now monitored by an electronic system that tracks any cross-border movements.

Since last week, Saudi women’s male guardians began receiving text messages on their phones informing them when women under their custody leave the country, even if they are traveling together.

311 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:17:13am

re: #307 Jolo5309

He sounds like a guy I know here, he plays a generic kind of 15th-17th century game, it is 1 page long that he wrote himself.

I play DBA more than anything.

This thing he has spent altogether too much time on is like 40 pages long and ever-expanding. I prefer doing small tactical stuff, 1:210 scale on dimensions and one figure = 3 troops. Makes it a lot more interesting for what I find cool about Napoleonics: the various formations, double vs. triple ranks, etc...all that is lost at 1:1000 scale and 1 figure = 20 troops.

312 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:19:02am

Mother of the Year Candidate!!!
Police: Plant City woman held in death of her baby says 'he was the devil'
PLANT CITY — Talae Thomas told officers the baby she brought home from the hospital five weeks earlier wasn't her son — he was the devil, according to a search warrant affidavit released Wednesday.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

313 Jolo5309  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:21:30am

re: #311 Sol Berdinowitz

This thing he has spent altogether too much time on is like 40 pages long and ever-expanding. I prefer doing small tactical stuff, 1:210 scale on dimensions and one figure = 3 troops. Makes it a lot more interesting for what I find cool about Napoleonics: the various formations, double vs. triple ranks, etc...all that is lost at 1:1000 scale and 1 figure = 20 troops.

True, I am just a lazy painter, and the guy I game with likes DBA. He did send me a link to Ambush Z as well

I used to play a lot of Mordheim, but that was 10 years ago, prior to that it was Warhammer and assorted odd WRG games.

314 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:21:37am

re: #312 King of the Douche, now you may bow

Mother of the Year Candidate!!!
Police: Plant City woman held in death of her baby says 'he was the devil'
PLANT CITY — Talae Thomas told officers the baby she brought home from the hospital five weeks earlier wasn't her son — he was the devil, according to a search warrant affidavit released Wednesday.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

No, this is just sad. This woman was diagnosed as mentally ill, this could have been prevented.

But that might've cost money and involved government interfering with her religious views...

315 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:22:27am

Panhandle Family's Pet Turkey 'Tom' Shot by Neighbor
Sheriff's deputies arrested two Santa Rosa County teens on Monday. They're charged with armed burglary, armed trespassing, theft of livestock and animal cruelty.

The teens told deputies they planned to eat the 30-pound turkey for Thanksgiving.
[Link: www.wctv.tv...]
Happy Thanksgiving!!!

316 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:24:14am

re: #315 King of the Douche, now you may bow

Panhandle Family's Pet Turkey 'Tom' Shot by Neighbor
Sheriff's deputies arrested two Santa Rosa County teens on Monday. They're charged with armed burglary, armed trespassing, theft of livestock and animal cruelty.

The teens told deputies they planned to eat the 30-pound turkey for Thanksgiving.
[Link: www.wctv.tv...]
Happy Thanksgiving!!!

Rugged, live off the land, types I'm sure. More likely just poorly raised idiots.

317 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:25:28am

re: #314 Sol Berdinowitz

No, this is just sad. This woman was diagnosed as mentally ill, this could have been prevented.

But that might've cost money and involved government interfering with her religious views...

True. Problem is convincing someone they are mentally ill to get them help.

318 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:25:44am

re: #313 Jolo5309

True, I am just a lazy painter, and the guy I game with likes DBA.

I used to play a lot of Mordheim, but that was 10 years ago, prior to that it was Warhammer and assorted odd WRG games.

I do not have a list or a tally of how many figures I have painted, I can narrow it down to the number of kits if I think real hard. Last project I finished involved around eight kits of French light infantry, around 330 figures.

I have since moved on to Samurai, just finished about seven kits' worth, but that is not even the half of what I have planned.

Right now there are around 5,000 Napoleonics, around 1,200 American Civil War figs and around 1,000 WWII figures and around 100 AFV's.

I cannot be bothered to keep count, I am too busy painting and playing with them.

319 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:26:43am

re: #316 Feline Fearless Leader

Rugged, live off the land, types I'm sure. More likely just poorly raised idiots.

I live off the land. Thank God there's a 7-11 on it.
///

320 Jolo5309  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:27:54am

re: #318 Sol Berdinowitz

I do not have a list or a tally of how many figures I have painted, I can narrow it down to the number of kits if I think real hard. Last project I finished involved around eight kits of French light infantry, around 330 figures.

I have since moved on to Samurai, just finished about seven kits' worth, but that is not even the half of what I have planned.

Right now there are around 5,000 Napoleonics, around 1,200 American Civil War figs and around 1,000 WWII figures and around 100 AFV's.

I cannot be bothered to keep count, I am too busy painting and playing with them.

Tim, is that you?

Actually, Tim is an ancients and a modern guy, very little Napoleonics...

I have/had only about 600 figs at my peak, and over half of them were Skaven, like I said, too lazy to paint when I can always play a boardgame.

321 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:28:14am

re: #318 Sol Berdinowitz

I do not have a list or a tally of how many figures I have painted, I can narrow it down to the number of kits if I think real hard. Last project I finished involved around eight kits of French light infantry, around 330 figures.

I have since moved on to Samurai, just finished about seven kits' worth, but that is not even the half of what I have planned.

Right now there are around 5,000 Napoleonics, around 1,200 American Civil War figs and around 1,000 WWII figures and around 100 AFV's.

I cannot be bothered to keep count, I am too busy painting and playing with them.

And hope your house doesn't get infected by "Night in the Museum"...
;)

322 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:31:12am

re: #321 Feline Fearless Leader

And hope your house doesn't get infected by "Night in the Museum"...
;)

It would be epochal hell.

I tried to restrict myself to WWII, ACW and Napoeonics from 1812-1815, but then a collector in Pennsylvania sent me thirteen kits of Samurai he had no time to paint, and another guy in Germany sent me three more sets.

I just started the Samurai project, I will knock off when I get aroun 700 figures painted, that is enough for a decent wargame.

323 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:37:21am

re: #322 Sol Berdinowitz

It would be epochal hell.

I tried to restrict myself to WWII, ACW and Napoeonics from 1812-1815, but then a collector in Pennsylvania sent me thirteen kits of Samurai he had no time to paint, and another guy in Germany sent me three more sets.

I just started the Samurai project, I will knock off when I get aroun 700 figures painted, that is enough for a decent wargame.

Yes. Or a geek.
/

324 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:40:41am

re: #322 Sol Berdinowitz

It would be epochal hell.

I tried to restrict myself to WWII, ACW and Napoeonics from 1812-1815, but then a collector in Pennsylvania sent me thirteen kits of Samurai he had no time to paint, and another guy in Germany sent me three more sets.

I just started the Samurai project, I will knock off when I get aroun 700 figures painted, that is enough for a decent wargame.

I did model painting and assembly through high school (mainly 1:35 scale tanks). Then did lead figures for RPGs in college. Have some minis of various sorts about for minor projects but never get around to really starting on them. (Conditions mainly - need very good light with my failing close vision. And not having a good space with ventilation for doing spray priming and such.)

Too many things I want to do and so little time. Plus easy distractions.

325 Jolo5309  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:41:14am

re: #322 Sol Berdinowitz

It would be epochal hell.

I tried to restrict myself to WWII, ACW and Napoeonics from 1812-1815, but then a collector in Pennsylvania sent me thirteen kits of Samurai he had no time to paint, and another guy in Germany sent me three more sets.

I just started the Samurai project, I will knock off when I get aroun 700 figures painted, that is enough for a decent wargame.

I could never get into WWII, ACW or Nappy, what do you find interesting about them?

326 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:43:52am

All right I am totally not going to Huffington Post ever again. They have embedded an auto-play video somewhere on each and every one of their news pages, and it's hidden several scrolls down, and even once you manage to find it YOU CAN'T TURN THE FREAKING THING OFF.

327 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:46:03am

re: #326 Vicious Babushka

All right I am totally not going to Huffington Post ever again. They have embedded an auto-play video somewhere on each and every one of their news pages, and it's hidden several scrolls down, and even once you manage to find it YOU CAN'T TURN THE FREAKING THING OFF.

They got tired of NJDHF linking to them all the time and this is them trying to deter him.
/// ;P

328 Interesting Times  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 8:56:17am

re: #326 Vicious Babushka

All right I am totally not going to Huffington Post ever again. They have embedded an auto-play video somewhere on each and every one of their news pages, and it's hidden several scrolls down, and even once you manage to find it YOU CAN'T TURN THE FREAKING THING OFF.

Thanks for the heads-up. Auto-play videos were most correctly described by erik_t as an Internet crime. Especially for people like me whose home Internet access comes through a horribly limited bandwidth wireless plan. A hidden autoplay video on a site I once visited (I didn't even hear it playing because my speakers were off) cost me nearly a quarter of my monthly 5 GB allowance.

329 jaunte  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:06:12am
330 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:06:40am

Alice's Restaurant playing right now on my Radio. WXRT Chicago.

Happy Thanksgiving all!

332 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:08:56am

re: #331 jaunte

Celebrate Food Workers Week by being uncharacteristically nice at the grocery store

So a whole week I can't throw tomatoes at the deli guy!?!?!

333 jaunte  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:09:29am

re: #332 sattv4u2

It's only for a week!

334 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:13:07am

Happy Thanksgiving to all on our best family holiday. Soon it's off to Donna's moms place. The Turkey was brined and put in the oven. Shortly we start the every half hour basting.

The best part of all is Donna's dad is home for the holiday, coping reasonably well with his chemo. We are so grateful to still have him. His mind is sharp, it's the body that fails him sometimes.

335 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:15:03am

re: #323 King of the Douche, now you may bow

Yes. Or a geek.
/

No, a geek would need at least 2,000...

336 allegro  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:15:09am

Happy Thanksgiving!

I woke up very thankful this morning... thankful that I could stay in bed as long as I wanted and didn't have a houseful of guests here or on the way to prepare and cook for. As much as I enjoyed my old, former life and all the entertaining of family and friends, I honestly don't miss it anymore. I just fixed Eggs Benedict and fresh squeezed OJ as my special brunch treat, looking forward to watching the Texans go 10-1. Total jammie day, snuggled in with my boys. :)

337 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:16:26am

I think I'll make waffles.

338 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:18:50am

re: #325 Jolo5309

I could never get into WWII, ACW or Nappy, what do you find interesting about them?

WWII figures I started collecting decades ago, started in college when I found a place that was selling remaindered kits of 69 cents, it became a hobby with me and my roommate. Have not done much with them in ages.

Napoleonics I started in the mid-80's just like for the brightly colored uniforms and the way they line up in mutual firing quads and blaze away at each other through the gunsmoke from near point-blank range.

339 jaunte  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:21:00am

The Hater's Guide To The Williams-Sonoma Catalog

Item #02-1496058 Potato Scrubbing Gloves

Williams-Sonoma says: "Scrub potatoes clean while preserving skin that's nutrient rich. Set of two."

Price: $11.95

Notes from Drew: I desperately wanted it to say "Set of one" at the end. But anyway, who WOULDN'T like to have special gloves for whenever you have to handle potatoes? Potatoes are dirty and smelly, so it behooves you to wear a pair of gloves that will absorb all that dirt and grime and then get soaked through. Be sure to let them dry on your radiator! I also like that these gloves come with the word POTATO labeled across each one. Late at night, I often go digging through my basement screaming, "WHERE ARE THE GODDAMN POTATO GLOVES?" Because I usually end up grabbing the carrot gloves first, you know?

340 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:26:55am

Nowhere in the world are fashion choices more questionable than at dog shows.

341 Petero1818  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:44:37am

re: #340 makeitstop

Nowhere in the world are fashion choices more questionable than at dog shows.

Apparently you have never been to Dollywood.

342 dragonfire1981  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:45:16am

re: #310 jaunte

Saudi Arabia implements electronic tracking system for women

Saudi Arabia: We make even the GOP look like radical feminists.

343 dragonfire1981  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:46:08am

re: #332 sattv4u2

So a whole week I can't throw tomatoes at the deli guy!?!?!

Just be a little gentler when you do, that's all.

344 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:46:31am

Saudi Arabia = feudal monarchy + Sharia. Allies
Iran = democratically elected government + Sharia. Enemies

345 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:50:19am

re: #341 Petero1818

Apparently you have never been to Dollywood.

You have a point there.

346 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:51:03am

re: #344 Sol Berdinowitz

Saudi Arabia = feudal monarchy + sharia. Allies
Iran = democratically elected government + sharia. Enemies

Nope, I ran is still an authoritarian theocracy. Clerics chose the candidates that may be voted for by the public. Kind of like how the candidates in the Soviet union were chosen by the communist party. Doesn't really qualify as democracy.

347 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:52:49am

re: #346 Killgore Trout

Nope, I ran is still an authoritarian theocracy. Clerics chose the candidates that may be voted for by the public. Kind of like how the candidates in the Soviet union were chosen by the communist party. Doesn't really qualify as democracy.

I'm pretty sure there's a joke out there about how "democratic republics" are neither democratic or a republic.

348 Jolo5309  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:54:08am

re: #343 dragonfire1981

Just be a little gentler when you do, that's all.

Lob them instead of winding up like Roger Clemons?

349 Henchman Ghazi-808  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:54:31am

re: #339 jaunte

Notes from Drew: Where else am I supposed to put my dirty cheese?

350 allegro  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:57:36am

Yo, Texans. Wake up, dudes!

351 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:58:48am

re: #350 allegro

Yo, Texans. Wake up, dudes!

They've been awake for hours. They just all seceded while you were asleep.

//

352 allegro  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 9:59:19am

re: #351 Targetpractice

They've been awake for hours. They just all seceded while you were asleep.

//

:P~~~~

353 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:00:40am

My souffle is rising!

354 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:01:03am

Breakfast at Noon-Thirty
Thanksgiving Dinner at Six
Patriots/ Jets at 08:30

Life is good!!

355 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:01:40am

re: #353 prairiefire

My souffle is rising!

You get that excited about football, do ya??

356 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:02:49am

re: #346 Killgore Trout

I ran is still an authoritarian
Man,, I need more sleep

At 1st, I thought you were saying "I ran a still"

357 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:06:18am

re: #356 sattv4u2

I ran is still an authoritarian
Man,, I need more sleep

At 1st, I thought you were saying "I ran a still"

I did make a still once for making lavender extract. Copper tubing, and old pressure cooker and a bucket of ice. I just had the parts laying around. Worked pretty well.

358 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:12:55am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

I did make a still once for making lavender extract. Copper tubing, and old pressure cooker and a bucket of ice. I just had the parts laying around. Worked pretty well.

$1.00
Corner liquor store
That works pretty well also

359 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:17:13am

re: #358 sattv4u2

$1.00
Corner liquor store
That works pretty well also

No fun in that.

360 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:19:51am

Zedushka put in his order for Thanksgiving Dinner (I offered to cook "whatever you want!"): Meatballs and gravy over mashed potatoes and none of that fancy Middle Eastern spice!

Oh. OK.

I don't know what to make for myself. Maybe eggplant tagine, with all that Middle Eastern spice that won't be put on Zedushka's dinner?

We are having our turkey dinner Friday night, which is customary in our family.

361 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:24:07am

re: #359 Killgore Trout

No fun in that.

No fun in getting blow'd up making your own still either

(don't even ask how/why I know that!!)/

362 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:24:26am

Hello Lizards!
I'm on my way out, and I haven't been following the thread, but I wanted to take the time to wish everyone a happy, and sane Thanksgiving!
Be safe.
:-)

363 efuseakay  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:24:53am
364 efuseakay  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:25:14am

And yes. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

365 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:25:23am

re: #362 OhNoZombies!

Hello Lizards!
I'm on my way out, and I haven't been following the thread, but I wanted to take the time to wish everyone a happy, and sane Thanksgiving!
Be safe.
:-)

you must be thinking of a different group!!

//

Seriously, back attchya

366 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:33:55am

re: #342 dragonfire1981

Saudi Arabia: We make even the GOP look like radical feminists.

I think they see Saudi Arabia's controls sometimes and sigh due to being jealous. "Damn, I coulda gotten a falcon!"

367 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:41:05am

re: #363 efuseakay

Looks like Egypt still can't get it right... sigh.

Egypt's President Mohammed Mursi has issued a declaration banning challenges to his decrees, laws and decisions.

He then closed out his remarks by asking, "Any youse guys have a problem with dat?"

368 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:43:00am

Bleah. We've all got massive colds and cancelled out of the family gathering today. Instead, this evening I'll make a pot of spaghetti & some sauce from a jar livened up with fresh mushrooms and meatballs and we'll call it good. At least we're all here and not even my sinuses can keep that from being a good thing.

369 efuseakay  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:43:17am

re: #367 Eventual Carrion

He then closed out his remarks by asking, "Any youse guys have a problem with dat?"

Asking? Oh. He's not asking a damn thing... he's thinking "You can all suck it!".

370 dragonfire1981  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:46:26am

Seen on a tweet a few minutes ago:

Today I am thankful for everyone who did NOT vote for President Obama!

371 darthstar  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:47:34am

Here's one kid who isn't getting a drumstick tonight.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

I hadn't seen that before. Gotta love a kid who is so stoked to meet the President...even if he is a Romney...and check out Grandma's crazed look.

372 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:48:25am

re: #363 efuseakay

re: #367 Eventual Carrion

"It's good to be the King President of Egypt"

((I didn't get a harrumphh from that guy!!))

373 efuseakay  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 10:51:29am

re: #372 sattv4u2

re: #367 Eventual Carrion

"It's good to be the King President of Egypt"

((I didn't get a harrumphh from that guy!!))

But I'll give you an "Oye vey!"... !!!

374 jvic  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:00:01am

re: #363 efuseakay

Looks like Egypt still can't get it right... sigh.

Egypt's President Mohammed Mursi has issued a declaration banning challenges to his decrees, laws and decisions.

A development like this wasn't inevitable, but afaic it was far likelier than not. It doesn't surprise me, but I expected it to take longer than it has.

Maybe (maybe not) Morsi thought he could be either Egypt's Kerensky or Egypt's Lenin. Maybe he recalled what happened to the ineffectual reform government that briefly took power from the Shah of Iran, and what happened to Russia during and after Yeltsin's well-intentioned administration. Maybe he was right.

375 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:07:21am

Detroit came to play today.

376 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:11:05am

re: #375 Eventual Carrion

Detroit came to play today.

Well yeah. You think they walk around dressed like that when they go to the mall!?!?!
/

377 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:13:31am

re: #374 jvic

A development like this wasn't inevitable, but afaic it was far likelier than not. It doesn't surprise me, but I expected it to take longer than it has.

Maybe (maybe not) Morsi thought he could be either Egypt's Kerensky or Egypt's Lenin. Maybe he recalled what happened to the ineffectual reform government that briefly took power from the Shah of Iran, and what happened to Russia during and after Yeltsin's well-intentioned administration. Maybe he was right.

As someone said, elections have consequences!

378 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:15:37am

re: #374 jvic

A development like this wasn't inevitable, but afaic it was far likelier than not. It doesn't surprise me, but I expected it to take longer than it has.

Maybe (maybe not) Morsi thought he could be either Egypt's Kerensky or Egypt's Lenin. Maybe he recalled what happened to the ineffectual reform government that briefly took power from the Shah of Iran, and what happened to Russia during and after Yeltsin's well-intentioned administration. Maybe he was right.

Democracy is a fine ideal to promote, but it is just not going to work in this part of the world for some generations to come. Mursi is trying to keep a lid on things as best he can.

I do not admire him for what he is doing, but I do not envy him for his position.

379 allegro  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:16:41am

re: #375 Eventual Carrion

Detroit came to play today.

They sure did.

Dammit.

380 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:22:44am

re: #379 allegro

They sure did.

Dammit.

Lions need the win or they're out of it (and even with one, they probably are)

Texans have a comfy lead in their division, so it's not as critical of a game, especially since it's an out of conference one

381 allegro  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:24:49am

re: #380 sattv4u2

Lions need the win or they're out of it (and even with one, they probably are)

Texans have a comfy lead in their division, so it's not as critical of a game, especially since it's an out of conference one

I know. They are playing a fantastic game.

But.. but 10-1!! would be so cool.

382 sattv4u2  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:28:02am

re: #381 allegro

I know. They are playing a fantastic game.

But.. but 10-1!! would be so cool.

Hey. The Patriots are a missed field goal and two desperation passes (by the other teams) from being 10-0 (again) right now, so I understand

Their three losses are by a COMBINED 4 points

383 Swampwitch  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:34:49am

Everyone I know here in NW Iowa knows that Vander Plaats is simply another eKstraKrispyKristian grifter. His living is made from donations and our taxes. The fact that you can make a very good living from being a professional bigot in this part of Iowa is one of the many reasons that if my home business takes off I'm leaving my beloved Iowa for Washington state.

Plus, you know, the pot.

384 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 22, 2012 11:36:51am

re: #383 Swampwitch

Everyone I know here in NW Iowa knows that Vander Plaats is simply another eKstraKrispyKristian grifter. His living is made from donations and our taxes. The fact that you can make a very good living from being a professional bigot in this part of Iowa is one of the many reasons that if my home business takes off I'm leaving my beloved Iowa for Washington state.

Plus, you know, the pot.

I hope these states make it part of the law that the weed has to be grown by American farmers. No imports.


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