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Jonah Goldberg Would Like the GOP to “Get More Racist”

Goldberg’s recipe for right wing victory
Politics • Views: 26,592

It’s time to play “What the Hell is Jonah Goldberg Trying to Say Here?” as the National Review editor-at-large (“at large” in this case means writing an op-ed for the New York Post) admonishes the Republican Party: GOP, Get More ‘Racist’.

Go ahead and click through; maybe you can make more sense of it than I did. To me, it looks like a paper-thin excuse for right wing racism.

Which is rich, coming from the “editor-at-large” for the National Review, where they’ve been forced to distance themselves from not one, but two overt white nationalists so far this year.

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482 comments

1 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 5:48:06pm

His point (besides the one atop his head) seems to be the oft-repeated wingnut assertion that everything they do/say is deemed "racist" by their opponents, so they should not only keep on about it, but ramp it up, because that means that it's "working."

2 TedStriker  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 5:48:44pm

Mr. Goldberg, your party has learned absolutely nothing of substance from this past election and about why minorities were still voting overwhelmingly for President Obama, yet you and your fellow RWNJs are basically doubling down on everything that kept the GOP out of the White House this time around.

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

3 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 5:49:17pm

Secret service says the number of threats against the president is overwhelming

...Recently, when Anton Caluori, 31, allegedly emailed the FBI on the morning of August 21st to say he would "kill the president," a Secret Service agent was immediately dispatched to his residence. According to the Department of Justice, Caluori was armed with multiple weapons, making his threat not only credible, but viable.

"This case had all the troubling ingredients: threats of violence and explosive devices, multiple weapons with hundreds of rounds and even brandishing of a weapon at law enforcement," said U. S. Attorney Jenny A. Durkan.

Caluori was subsequently arrested and charged in federal court with making a threat against the president and assault of a federal agent. If convicted, he could face up to 25 years in prison. He is scheduled to appear in federal court in Seattle Monday for a detention hearing.

Threats up 400% since 2008.

4 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 5:50:51pm
Any serious attempt by the GOP to win black votes won’t involve Republicans copycatting liberal policies. It will require going over the heads of black and white liberal slanderers to offer a sincere alternative to failed liberal policies on schools, poverty, crime, etc. The more effective that effort, the more the GOP will be called racist.

"Doctor, his logic is broken!"

5 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 5:51:20pm

Dear GOP,

Please continue to dismiss half the country as lazy, shiftless moochers who only want to cheat the system while talking on their Obama phones and buying caviar and iPads with their food stamps.

Also, please continue to demonize Latinos as illegal immigrants who only want to have anchor babies and ruin your Real America.

You know, because it all worked so well for you guys in 2012.

No love,
Me

6 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 5:51:54pm

re: #4 jaunte

"Doctor, his logic is broken!"

"I'm afraid it's terminal, we can't do anything more. It might be more merciful to just let him go peacefully."

7 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 5:53:17pm

re: #3 jaunte

If you are found to be doing a viable threat, the sentence should be life in prison, with no chance of parole.

Same thing for rapists.

8 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 5:53:53pm

re: #4 jaunte

"Doctor, his logic is broken!"

What logic? This is the Doughy Pantload, who wrote an entire book arguing that Hitler was a liberal.

9 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 5:55:32pm

Angry Black Lady:

Truly we live in an age of post-racial America where I had no idea being white was so bloody difficult, laced with traps and pitfalls whenever you tried to explain to the brown horde that your policies were necessary medicine they needed. Somebody always comes along and racial slanders it. You guys, Jonah’s trying really hard here!
[Link: angryblackladychronicles.com...]

10 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:03:41pm

Weird comment there:

The Democrats are not racists they promote any person of color who plays by their rule’s.Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson. Louis Frakan.etal. The Republicans have always sought the best in people of any color The list of “Color” Republicans are numerous. Martin luter King Condalisa Rice, Adam West, Herman Cain, Thomas Soul, Clearance Thomas Alan Keys, Charles Payne. The Democrats like their “Color” wrapped in the belief of no responsibility give you a better life. The System does not keep the People of color down it is their lack of want. and belief that the world is not theirs for the working.

11 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:04:47pm

Clearance Thomas and Adam West.

BATMAN!

12 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:05:07pm

From that article:

I don’t think the Republican Party is racist now (and, historically, has a lot less to answer for than the Democratic Party does).

Check out the first paragraph of the New Mexico Republican Party platform, which displays the same kind of intellectual ignorance:

“Every right that has been bestowed upon blacks was initiated by the Republican Party.”
- Mary Terrell, African-American Republican and co-founder of the NAACP

Abolishing Slavery. Free Speech. Women's Suffrage.

In today's stereotypes, none of these sound like typical Republican issues, yet they are stances the Republican Party adopted very early on - in opposition to the Democratic Party.

Why yes, because the Democratic party is exactly the same as it was 100 years ago.

Goldbergism is everywhere.

13 researchok  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:05:31pm

re: #10 Gus

This is Hall of Fame worthy.

14 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:05:59pm

re: #13 researchok

This is Hall of Fame worthy.

Not satire. :D

15 researchok  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:06:45pm

re: #14 Gus

My point exactly.

You can't make this shit up.

16 Ziggy Standard  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:07:49pm

Don't blame the poison we've been drinking for the bad state we're in. It's a lie that it's poison, despite all (lying) appearances. No, this is actually the good stuff - just a couple more bottles and we'll be much better. Come on guys drink up!

17 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:08:10pm

re: #15 researchok

My point exactly.

You can't make this shit up.

...

The list of “Color” Republicans

She probably meant colored. Like in "them there colored folks."

18 researchok  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:09:06pm

re: #16 Ayeless in Ghazi

Would be better with some misspelling.

OK, lots of misspelling.

19 researchok  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:10:41pm

re: #17 Gus

I'm quickly running out of fingers to plug the dike.

// (Wishful)

20 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:11:16pm

re: #3 jaunte

is that up 400% since he took office or 400% since Bush was in office.

It would be fascinating if ODS is 4 times more deadly than BDS.

Is it unfair that I imagine the creeps at PJMedia celebrating if they heard this?

21 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:12:38pm

re: #16 Ayeless in Ghazi

What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

22 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:17:42pm

re: #18 researchok

Would be better with some misspelling.

OK, lots of misspelling.

Needs some random capitalization.

23 Skip Intro  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:17:51pm

Jonah is just trying to get the GOP leadership in sync with the base, which has gone pedal to the metal racist ever since the Kenyan stole the 2008 election.

24 Ziggy Standard  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:17:53pm

re: #18 researchok

Would be better with some misspelling.

OK, lots of misspelling.

I totally forgot to use the usual wingnut grammatical conventions too:

don't...blame the ]poisson we've been drinking for the Bad. State. Were. In. It's a lie,,, that it's poison, despite all (lieing) apaerances. N0o, this is actually the Good Stuff... - just a couple more bottles.... and [well be much better. come on guy's,,, drin(9) k up!

25 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:19:17pm

re: #24 Ayeless in Ghazi

I totally forgot to use the usual wingnut grammatical conventions too:

Freedom! You sir are a true Patriot.

//

26 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:19:51pm

re: #3 jaunte

funny thing, but 3 years ago the secret service was saying that the threats weren't up 4 times... now they are.

It would be no surprise if the all-hate-all-the-time midterm campaign of 2010 quadrupled the death threats. The campaign where very conservative members got primaried if they refused to call the President a Kenyan Socialist.

But it's suspicious that the quote says 400% in both cases. Could it be a recycled non-story?

27 bratwurst  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:19:57pm

I would be surprised that Goldberg continues to propagate the myth that George Romney "marched with" MLK...except he has proven over and over that he has a big problem distinguishing fantasy from reality.

28 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:21:06pm

re: #27 bratwurst

I would be surprised that Goldberg continues to propagate the myth that George Romney "marched with" MLK...except he has proven over and over that he has a big problem distinguishing fantasy from reality.

"I saw my father march with Martin Luther King."
Mitt Romney on Thursday, December 6th, 2007 in College Station, Texas

George Romney and MLK marched, but not together

29 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:21:37pm

re: #20 stabby

Looks like that 400% number came from this:

This week the journalist Ronald Kessler’s new behind-the-scenes account of presidential security, “In the President’s Secret Service,” rose to No. 3 on The Times nonfiction best-seller list. No wonder there’s a lot of interest in the subject. We have no reason to believe that these hugely dedicated agents will fail us this time, even as threats against Obama, according to Kessler, are up 400 percent from those against his White House predecessor.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

30 Ziggy Standard  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:23:56pm

re: #25 Gus

Freedom! You sir are a true Patriot.

//

They may take our lives, but they'll never take our Genuine Frontier Gibberish Sans!

31 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:24:33pm

re: #30 Ayeless in Ghazi

They may take our lives, but they'll never take our Genuine Frontier Gibberish Sans!

Skoal?

32 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:24:59pm

re: #26 stabby

Maybe. I can't find any original source but Kessler's book.

33 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:25:06pm
We have no reason to believe that these hugely dedicated agents will fail us this time, even as threats against Obama, according to Kessler, are up 400 percent from those against his White House predecessor.

Gah! Thank you Glen Beck/Rupert Murdock/Jim Demint and the rest.

And the guy will have to live under heavy security the rest of his life too. I'm going to be so angry if Obama is ever assassinated, now or in 30 years. I will have trouble not blaming every ODS spouting wingnut I know, and that's a lot of people

34 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:26:10pm

re: #29 jaunte

" Release Date: August 3, 2010 "

35 Ziggy Standard  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:27:21pm

re: #31 Gus

Skoal?

Nah just what I'm calling the wingnut font/grammar/spelling combo ;)

36 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:28:03pm


37 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:29:11pm

re: #35 Ayeless in Ghazi

Nah just what I'm calling the wingnut font/grammar/spelling combo ;)

I know. I was just asking you if you wanted some Skoal™ chewing tobacco.

Skoal?

38 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:29:26pm

re: #36 jaunte

And that would be where I would give no tip.

39 Four More Tears  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:30:14pm

Whoa. I have a whole new level of respect for Glenn...

40 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:30:51pm

re: #36 jaunte

[Embedded content]

It's in that part of the bible you get to after having consumed a half-gallon of Jack Daniels.

41 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:31:40pm

re: #4 jaunte

"Doctor, his logic is broken!"

No, it isn't. What Goldberg is saying is that if the GOP tailors policies that are designed to work well for minorities, the left will not give Republicans any credit for the shift, for its own political reasons. No matter what actions it takes, large portions of the left will call the Republican party 'racist'. So given that the GOP cannot avoid the charge being throw, Goldberg is say the GOP should not allow itself to be stung by the charge and work to develop effective polices that will benefits blacks and Latinos.

Goldberg's piece isn't racist. His "more racist" line is him decrying weaponized charges of racism.

42 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:32:39pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

...work to develop effective polices that will benefits blacks and Latinos.

He should have written about those, if he wants to make some headway.

43 prairiefire  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:34:06pm

re: #42 jaunte

He should have written about those, if he wants to make some headway.

La, then the man would have had to actually think through a though process.

44 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:35:16pm

re: #42 jaunte

He should have written about those, if he wants to make some headway.

Policy prescriptions are not Jonah Goldberg's specialty. He tends to take his cues on such matters from others.

45 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:35:20pm

re: #36 jaunte

[Embedded content]

You know what the real stress issues with Christians that believe in the Rapture is they never want to take a poop and possibly be zipped to heaven.
Going to heaven while taking a shit causes real digestive issues.

46 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:35:32pm

re: #21 Targetpractice

What doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

Apologies to Kelly Clarkson, but this immediately came to mind:

47 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:35:39pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

No, it isn't. What Goldberg is saying is that if the GOP tailors policies that are designed to work well for minorities, the left will not give Republicans any credit for the shift, for its own political reasons. No matter what actions it takes, large portions of the left will call the Republican party 'racist'. So given that the GOP cannot avoid the charge being throw, Goldberg is say the GOP should not allow itself to be stung by the charge and work to develop effective polices that will benefits blacks and Latinos.

Goldberg's piece isn't racist. His "more racist" line is him decrying weaponized charges of racism.

It's excuse-making, more of the "it's not the message, it's the presentation" whining. That if they just stay the course and ignore the charges of racism, then they can win over Latino and black voters because their ideas are "better" for them.

48 researchok  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:36:24pm

re: #37 Gus

Point loss for incorrect spelling.

Chaw is how it's spelled.

I thought you played/watched baseball like all real Americans.

So- badminton your game?

49 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:37:11pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

What Goldberg is saying is that if the GOP tailors policies that are designed to work well for minorities,

Hahahaha.

Oh, wait. You're serious?

50 Ziggy Standard  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:37:45pm

re: #37 Gus

I know. I was just asking you if you wanted some Skoal™ chewing tobacco.

Skoal?

Ah right! Remember this guy? This must be the spoken version of Genuine Frontier Gibberish Sans...

51 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:38:00pm

re: #44 Dark_Falcon

It's pretty patronizing of him to assume the targets of racist messages don't know what they're hearing.

52 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:39:02pm

re: #48 researchok

Point loss for incorrect spelling.

Chaw is how it's spelled.

I thought you played/watched baseball like all real Americans.

So- badminton your game?

Skoal?

53 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:39:37pm

re: #52 Gus

Gopher, Everett?

54 researchok  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:39:54pm

re: #50 Ayeless in Ghazi

Flavored dip and weed.

Gateway drug combination.
//

55 researchok  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:40:12pm

re: #52 Gus

Or Dip

56 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:40:39pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

No, it isn't. What Goldberg is saying is that if the GOP tailors policies that are designed to work well for minorities, the left will not give Republicans any credit for the shift, for its own political reasons. No matter what actions it takes, large portions of the left will call the Republican party 'racist'. So given that the GOP cannot avoid the charge being throw, Goldberg is say the GOP should not allow itself to be stung by the charge and work to develop effective polices that will benefits blacks and Latinos.

Goldberg's piece isn't racist. His "more racist" line is him decrying weaponized charges of racism.

The GOP hasn't put forward anything that would work well for minorities in the last 40 years.

The racism charge stings because it is closer to true than false.

57 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:40:54pm

re: #47 Targetpractice

It's excuse-making, more of the "it's not the message, it's the presentation" whining. That if they just stay the course and ignore the charges of racism, then they can win over Latino and black voters because their ideas are "better" for them.

Not entirely. Goldberg also wrote this, which deals with the need to change policy a bit more:

Compassionate conservatism always struck me as a philosophical surrender to liberal assumptions about the role of the government in our lives. A hallmark of Great Society liberalism is the idea that an individual’s worth as a human being is correlated to his support for massive expansions of the entitlement state. Conservatives are not uncompassionate. (Indeed, the data show that conservatives are more charitable with their own money and more generous with their time than liberals are.) But, barring something like a natural disaster, they believe that government is not the best and certainly not the first resort for acting on one’s compassion.

I still believe all of that, probably even more than I did when Bush was in office.

But, as a political matter, it has become clear that he was on to something important.

Neither critics nor supporters of compassionate conservatism could come to a consensus over the question of whether it was a mushy-gushy marketing slogan (a Republican version of Bill Clinton’s I-feel-your-pain liberalism) or a serious philosophical argument for a kind of Tory altruism, albeit with an evangelical idiom and a Texan accent.

Some sophisticated analysts, such as my National Review colleague Ramesh Ponnuru, always acknowledged the philosophical shortcomings and inconsistencies of compassionate conservatism, but they argued that something like it was necessary nonetheless. The evolving demographics of the country, combined with the profound changes to both the culture and the economy, demanded that the GOP change both its sales pitch and its governing philosophy.

Compassionate conservatism increasingly faded from view after 9/11. In 2004, Bush ran as a war president first and a compassionate conservative second (at best). Still, it’s worth remembering that Bush won a staggering (for a Republican) 40 percent of the Hispanic vote. Romney got 27 percent.

Moreover, according to exit polls, Romney decisively beat Obama on the questions of leadership, values, and economic expertise, but he was crushed by more than 60 points on the question of which candidate “cares about people like me.”

58 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:41:08pm

re: #50 Ayeless in Ghazi

Ah right! Remember this guy? This must be the spoken version of Genuine Frontier Gibberish Sans...

[Embedded content]

Oh I remember that. How old is that guy 50?

59 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:42:09pm

re: #47 Targetpractice

It's excuse-making, more of the "it's not the message, it's the presentation" whining. That if they just stay the course and ignore the charges of racism, then they can win over Latino and black voters because their ideas are "better" for them.

EXACTLY.

Jonah is clearly suffering from the same delusion that the rest of the GOP has, where the problem with their message is that it's being misinterpreted. Uh, no. People are hearing it loud and clear, and the shifting demographics of this country aren't buying it.

Of course, if the GOP ever decided to be a reasonable, rational, center-right party, they'd just be the Democrats. At this point, the GOP might as well take Jonah literally and let their far-right freak flag fly.

60 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:42:37pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

Not entirely. Goldberg also wrote this, which deals with the need to change policy a bit more:

So Goldberg subscribes to the "tough love" school of thought, that the problem is that minority voters need to be kicked in the ass and informed that they're not getting anything unless they work for it. And that policies like that are what conservatives promote, no matter how blatantly racist they appear.

61 Ziggy Standard  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:42:47pm

Bedtime here again. Later folks :)

62 Four More Tears  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:43:01pm

re: #59 Lidane

EXACTLY.

At this point, the GOP might as well take Jonah literally and let their far-right freak flag fly.

Please oh please oh please...

63 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:43:15pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

I appreciate your work as the Universal Wingnut Translator, but find it deeply weird that you're posting Jonah Goldberg articles approvingly.

64 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:43:20pm
65 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:44:17pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

Find me an elected conservative right now who wants to be "compassionate" to any minorities. And no, Chris Christie doing his damn job in New Jersey doesn't count, since the GOP is currently blaming him for Mitt Romney losing.

Go on. I'll wait.

66 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:44:54pm

I just watched "Blazing Saddles" on Blu-Ray.

GREATEST. COMEDY. EVER.

67 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:45:16pm

re: #45 A Man for all Seasons

OMG. You DID go there! Cracking up!

68 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:45:32pm

Gun sales on the rise after Obama's re-election

Jim and Joy Pruett, who have run Jim Pruett's Guns and Ammo for 11 years, said sales have gone "through the roof" since Election Day. "We haven't been able to keep up with it," Pruett said. "It's beyond our wildest imagination."

69 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:45:52pm

re: #51 jaunte

Romney tele-prompter for his NAACP speech:

"I will repeal Obama-Care on my first day [pause for booing] You're all just a bunch of freeloading takers who should vote for the Socialist Kenyan! How dare you low class blah people value your lives and the health of your grown children as much as job-creators do! You should have gotten your parents to lend you $25000 so you could start a business!"

I can't imagine why 0% of blacks voted for him. They must be all racialists. Oh the poor poor victimized white men. Always victims of racialists.

70 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:46:17pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

Not entirely. Goldberg also wrote this, which deals with the need to change policy a bit more:

Conservatives need to solve the Herbert Hoover problem if they want to be taken seriously. The great stock market crash was in 1929, when Hoover was president. By all accounts, Hoover was a capable and caring person. However, his administration was useless in dealing with the Great Depression, and that failure (rightly) discredited the GOP for decades.

71 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:46:27pm

re: #65 Lidane

Find me an elected conservative right now who wants to be "compassionate" to any minorities. And no, Chris Christie doing his damn job in New Jersey doesn't count, since the GOP is currently blaming him for Mitt Romney losing.

Go on. I'll wait.

Lets try Rubio and Jindal for starters. No racist, they. Nor is Lindsey Graham, nor Mark Kirk, nor John McCain a racist.

72 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:48:48pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

See, after what I have seen in my lifetime, I'm just wanting to push Republicans out of seats wherever it is feasible. Mark Kirk is a good target, for instance.

73 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:49:15pm

re: #70 EPR-radar

Conservatives need to solve the Herbert Hoover problem if they want to be taken seriously. The great stock market crash was in 1929, when Hoover was president. By all accounts, Hoover was a capable and caring person. However, his administration was useless in dealing with the Great Depression, and that failure (rightly) discredited the GOP for decades.

Nothing to be done about it. The failure happened and the realities of politics are such that a consensus view on much of the 'why' of it is not going to be reached any time soon. The only thing to do is govern well in the here and now.

74 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:49:28pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Lets try Rubio and Jindal for starters. No racist, they. Nor is Lindsey Graham, nor Mark Kirk, nor John McCain a racist.

Marc Rubio, the same guy who created his own watered-down DREAM Act, which no political pundit saw getting any sort of traction within his own party?

75 Interesting Times  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:50:17pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Lets try Rubio and Jindal for starters. No racist, they. Nor is Lindsey Graham, nor Mark Kirk, nor John McCain a racist.

Considering how "literal" you describe yourself as being, you completely misread Lidane's question. She asked for an example of conservatives BEING compassionate TO minorities, not simply being a member of a minority group themselves.

76 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:50:49pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Also, Mark Kirk can be dashed off that listed you have there.

He's an Anti-Arab racist.

77 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:51:06pm

Some Republican policies are not superficially racist, but have a disparate impact on the poor, many of whom are minorities. Like the playing around with early voting we saw in the recent election. Like the Anatole France line:

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and the poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

78 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:51:14pm

re: #69 stabby

*how do I purple text?

[ wingnut ]purple text[ / wingnut ]

remove spaces inside square brackets

purple text

79 TedStriker  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:52:12pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

Not entirely. Goldberg also wrote this, which deals with the need to change policy a bit more:

The GOP jettisoned any pretense of "compassionate conservatism" when the TPers took control after President Obama waxed McCain, in favor of the "Fuck everyone else, I've got mine!" school of thought ever since. Romney is the ultimate embodiment of this approach, but choads like Goldberg seem to be saying that even Romney wasn't hard enough.

Let them continue to double down, because they will continue to lose ground with the majority of Americans who aren't batshit crazy.

80 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:52:28pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Lets try Rubio and Jindal for starters. No racist, they. Nor is Lindsey Graham, nor Mark Kirk, nor John McCain a racist.

Come on DF this opinion piece by Goldberg is sloppy, poorly written and goes all over the place and barely makes a point. It's largely whining and childish in the beginning. The title is controversial in itself and is counter-productive even if he is trying to make a positive statement. This combined with his book, Liberal Fascism, and previous opinion pieces should be enough for anyone in the GOP to realize that Jonah Goldberg is part of the problem with the GOP. Stop blaming Democrats. It's the damn racism and it might not be with those guys you mention but it's with others including the numerous conservative pundits that engage in race baiting almost daily such as Rush Limbaugh and Drudge and no one in the GOP takes a stand.

81 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:52:28pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Lets try Rubio and Jindal for starters. No racist, they. Nor is Lindsey Graham, nor Mark Kirk, nor John McCain a racist.

Jindal, who sold out the children of Louisiana with his education policy fail? LOL.

Rubio, who the racist nutbags in the GOP don't think is a citizen?

McCain, who supported the racist SB1070 law in Arizona?

Graham, who opposes the DREAM Act?

Kirk, who voted in favor of preventing immigrants from knowing about the Minuteman Project lunatics?

Failures on all counts, Dark. Try again.

82 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:52:56pm

re: #72 ProGunLiberal

See, after what I have seen in my lifetime, I'm just wanting to push Republicans out of seats wherever it is feasible. Mark Kirk is a good target, for instance.

He'd a good man, PLL, and Illinois is lucky to have him. Don't be blind. I understand your anger, but the Chicago suburbs are aren't Colorado Springs, they really aren't. Kirk's not an asshole, he really isn't.

83 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:53:32pm

re: #81 Lidane

Jindal, who sold out the children of Louisiana with his education policy fail? LOL.

Rubio, who the racist nutbags in the GOP don't think is a citizen?

McCain, who supported the racist SB1070 law in Arizona?

Graham, who opposes the DREAM Act?

Kirk, who voted in favor of preventing immigrants from knowing about the Minuteman Project lunatics?

Failures on all counts, Dark. Try again.

Yeah, McCain has that daughter from India. He also has the MLK day vote.

84 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:53:50pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Lets try Rubio and Jindal for starters. No racist, they. Nor is Lindsey Graham, nor Mark Kirk, nor John McCain a racist.

All of them huge anti-gay bigots though.

85 wrenchwench  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:54:56pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

No, it isn't. What Goldberg is saying is that if the GOP tailors policies that are designed to work well for minorities, the left will not give Republicans any credit for the shift, for its own political reasons. No matter what actions it takes, large portions of the left will call the Republican party 'racist'. So given that the GOP cannot avoid the charge being throw, Goldberg is say the GOP should not allow itself to be stung by the charge and work to develop effective polices that will benefits blacks and Latinos.

Goldberg's piece isn't racist. His "more racist" line is him decrying weaponized charges of racism.

I disagree. First he's saying that liberals accuse the GOP of being racist because it

makes white liberals feel better about themselves. It scares moderates and centrists away from the Republican Party, and it no doubt helps dissuade wavering blacks from even thinking about giving the GOP an honest look.

It also does wonders to stifle journalists terrified of having their racial bona fides questioned in any way. And it helps a feckless left-wing black political class explain away its own failures.

He's wrong. Liberals accuse the GOP of being racists because they support racist policies, and because they tolerate, support, hire, and promote racists.

Second, he says the GOP should reach out to the black community by continuing to support the same racist policies they always have; school choice. He says

That’s why policies like school choice are routinely denounced as racist, even though they’re largely aimed at improving the lives of inner-city blacks trapped in bad schools. Teachers unions don’t like school choice, ergo, it’s racist.

He's saying school choice is denounced as racist because it's put forward by conservatives and teachers' unions don't like it. Then he lies about why conservatives support school choice in the first place. It's not outreach to the black community, it's white flight and religion in the schools.

Notice he makes black people sound dumb and compliant in the process. They either 'fall for' this stuff, or they mendaciously promote it.

86 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:55:17pm

re: #81 Lidane

Jindal, who sold out the children of Louisiana with his education policy fail? LOL.

Rubio, who the racist nutbags in the GOP don't think is a citizen?

McCain, who supported the racist SB1070 law in Arizona?

Graham, who opposes the DREAM Act?

Kirk, who voted in favor of preventing immigrants from knowing about the Minuteman Project lunatics?

Failures on all counts, Dark. Try again.

It says nothing about Rubio that racist assholes think he isn't a citizen other than that they fear him.

I do not consider opposition to the DREAM Act to be racism.

I do not know what you are talking about with Sen. Kirk.

87 Interesting Times  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:55:27pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

He'd a good man, PLL, and Illinois is lucky to have him. Don't be blind. I understand your anger, but the Chicago suburbs are aren't Colorado Springs, they really aren't. Kirk's not an asshole, he really isn't.

When this is the best defense you can mount of a sitting GOP senator, that's too fucking depressing for words.

88 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:55:34pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

Still, he stands in the way of a Filibuster-proof majority. Therefore, he must go.

89 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:56:13pm

re: #36 jaunte

Not surprised at the amount of delusion out there, stronger in certain parts of the country than others but still it is ubiquitous.

90 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:56:14pm

re: #83 Gus

Yeah, McCain has that daughter from India. He also has the MLK day vote.

I believe his adopted daughter is of Chinese origin, actually.

91 wrenchwench  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:56:40pm

And now I must go. Later, lizards.

Image: T0kpYSZO9km8lzGOBQKaug2.jpg

92 philosophus invidius  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:56:50pm

Goldberg:

That’s why policies like school choice are routinely denounced as racist, even though they’re largely aimed at improving the lives of inner-city blacks trapped in bad schools.

School choice aimed at improving the lives of inner-city blacks? This is clearly satire.

93 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:57:01pm
94 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:57:16pm

re: #68 jaunte

Gun sales on the rise after Obama's re-election

Violent delusions at that.

95 Bubblehead II  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:57:21pm

re: #69 stabby

[-wingnut-] [-/wingnut-]

remove the dashes

96 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:57:33pm

re: #88 ProGunLiberal

Still, he stands in the way of a Filibuster-proof majority. Therefore, he must go.

This being a matter of partisanship, I'll just leave it with "We don't agree on this point and never will. Let's just leave it."

97 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:58:06pm

re: #87 Interesting Times

Also, who is Angus King going to be Caucusing with in the Senate.

The Democrats could pull a European-Party-Esque solution of allowing Third Parties a bit more leeway, and then doing an alliance when Caucusing in Congress.

98 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:58:39pm

Rubio is something of a religious nut as well.

There is no good reason to be against gay rights.

99 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:58:46pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

I believe his adopted daughter is of Chinese origin, actually.

Bangladeshi.

100 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:58:59pm

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

I do not consider opposition to the DREAM Act to be racism.

So what else do you call opposing a policy that would give kids who came here illegally through no fault of their own a path to citizenship?

I do not know what you are talking about with Sen. Kirk.

[Link: www.ontheissues.org...]

101 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 6:59:24pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

I believe his adopted daughter is of Chinese origin, actually.

Bangladesh.

102 Indepublicrat  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:00:02pm

I saw that article and also tried to follow Goldberg's logic. He seemed to be saying with a straight face that the Republican party has no racist planks in its platform and no person associated with the Republican party has ever made a remark that could in any way be legitimately interpreted as racist, sexist, classist, or otherist. They're all a bunch of saints, apparently, so any claim otherwise can be dismissed with hand-waving. Hence the scare quotes. It really is further evidence that Republicans are living in an alternate universe of their own creation--a psychologist would say that the entire party has become psychotic.

103 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:00:06pm

I stumbled across a great resource today...

Idiot Legal Arguments: A Casebook for Dealing with Extremist Legal Arguments

So next time you run across a "sovereign citizen, freeman, Patriot, etc, etc..." or some other wacko spouting pseudo-legalese you can quickly look up previous court rulings dealing with their "argument." Some of the blurbs included about case actions and resolutions are quite funny too. :)

Topics covered are...

Section One: Index
Section Two: Refusing legal process
Submitting court pleadings titled "Refusal for fraud"
Renouncing or denying US citizenship
Pretending to be "sovereign"
Quibbling about 14th Amendment or Preamble Citizenship
Section Three: Pretending to be from a "sovereign" state or outside the US
Pretending to be a diplomat or some other official with immunity
Cannot compel recusal of judge
Accusing judge (or other official) of "constructive treason"
Accusing or suing judge (or other official) for "perjury of oath"
In general, suing judge or prosecutor for unfavorable outcome
Trying to force policeman or other govt employee to fill out questionnaire
Section Four: Objections to name typed in block letters (all-capitals)
Insisting on having name typed with strange punctuation
Arguments based on fringe on courtroom flag
Similarly, on eagle on flagpole
Similarly, on so-called "American Flag of Peace"
Nuisance liens - - enjoined
- - invalidated
- - effect of recording
- - penalized
--prosecuted under various theories
- - some remedial legislation
Section Five: Jury nullification
Nuisance IRS Form 1099
Counterfeit or altered IRS Form 1040
Unsigned or uninformative Form 1040
Constitutional rights related to tax evasion
Argument that tax laws apply only to "federal" areas such as D.C.
- - mention of the Buck Act
That tax laws apply only to govt employees
That taxes are voluntary
That income tax is an excise or reciprocal to a govt benefit
That income tax is contractual
Section Six: That the Sixteenth Amendment (income tax) was not adopted ("The Law that Never Was")
That Ohio was not a state for ratifying the Sixteenth Amendment
That the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) is not "positive" law
That disagreement with the tax laws is a good defense for tax evasion
That the IRS is not really a govt agency or is not authorized to enforce the tax laws
That the tables and index of the Code of Federal Regulations interprets the laws
That wages are not taxable income
Section Seven: That Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs) are not taxable as money
- - relying on the Coinage Act of 1792
- - quibbling about the meaning of the dollar sign ($)
- - that payments received in paper money are not taxable as income
- - that the amount received in paper money could be recalculated for tax purposes
Funny money; "Leroy checks" and the like
Section Eight: Various tax resister cults and gurus
Allodial or allodium deeds to property
Land patents to property
Moorish Science Temple argument that black people are tax exempt
Talk about so-called Emergency War Powers Act
Various idiot demands, including ....
- - trying to enforce the order of a make-believe court
- - that judges, IRS agents, and other govt officials are foreign agents
- - that citizenship or legal responsibilities, including taxes, can be unilaterally revoked
Section Nine: - - revoking signature
- - the Phantom 13th Amendment (about titles of nobility)
- - that IRS forms are invalid without an OMB number
- - claiming "nonstatutory abatement"
--attempting to impose UCC provisions
- - relating to "unconstitutional" laws
Section Ten: - - relating to fingerprinting and other aspects of arrest and custody
Traffic-related arguments

Hope someone finds it useful, or failing that, at least briefly entertaining.

104 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:01:50pm

Republican outreach to black voters...

I'm here to help and I'm gonna get you off welfare.

Cough, cough, cough, cough.

105 Interesting Times  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:02:02pm

re: #103 watching you tiny alien kittens are

I stumbled across a great resource today...

Idiot Legal Arguments: A Casebook for Dealing with Extremist Legal Arguments

So next time you run across a "sovereign citizen, freeman, Patriot, etc, etc..." or some other wacko spouting pseudo-legalese you can quickly look up previous court rulings dealing with their "argument." Some of the blurbs included about case actions and resolutions are quite funny too. :)

Topics covered are...

Hope someone finds it useful, or failing that, at least briefly entertaining.

Pffft. Conservative Fact Check™ told me legal arguments and cases don't exist if that's how you feel.

106 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:02:04pm

re: #102 Indepublicrat

-a psychologist would say that the entire party has become psychotic.

Or Goldberg's just made a decision to keep selling his audience the "it's not our fault" message.

107 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:02:08pm

You're doing it wrong.

108 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:02:59pm

re: #99 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

re: #101 goddamnedfrank

I stand corrected.

109 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:03:18pm

It's so stupid

Black people need different sorts of policies because they're so poor.

This is a statistic I remember from NPR, percent wealth lost in the economic downturn:

average white person: 33%
average hispanic: 72%
average black person: 87%

If you want black people's vote, support the poor. Promise you won't fuck with medicare, promise you won't fuck with social security, give poor people comprehensive health care coverage they can hold on to and afford, support a reasonable minimum wage [added].

In other words, don't be the modern, Bircher, poor hating, racist fallating Republican party.

Hey Goldburg, remember the Southern Strategy you just lost an election with? It was based on using poor people as surrogates for blacks and opposing their interests!

110 philosophus invidius  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:03:19pm

I notice that Goldberg says that Republicans are "cross" with Rice. "Cross"? This is America you douchebag.

111 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:03:56pm

re: #102 Indepublicrat

Yes, he's trying to say it with a straight face as an editor of a magazine which has published articles by white supremacists.

112 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:04:55pm

I'm wondering why I am not getting many responses now.

113 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:05:10pm

I'm here to help and I'm gonna get you off welfare.

And into the morgue.

114 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:05:58pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

re: #101 goddamnedfrank

I stand corrected.

Her darkness of skin was a factor in the 2000 primaries, when robocalls in South Carolina said she was McCain's out-of-wedlock black daughter.

115 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:06:44pm

re: #110 philosophus invidius

I notice that Goldberg says that Republicans are "cross" with Rice. "Cross"? This is America you douchebag.

What's wrong with that? It's a common phrase for when you are annoyed with someone. Jeez.

116 bratwurst  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:07:57pm
117 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:08:20pm

re: #88 ProGunLiberal

Still, he stands in the way of a Filibuster-proof majority. Therefore, he must go.

All the majority leader has to do when the senate reconvenes is to change the senate rules (which takes a simple majority) to state that closure only requires a simple majority. There are one or two other rule changes that can be made at the same time - end anonymous blocks & require filibusters to actually be old fashioned stand on the floor speaking till you fall over filibusters again.

End. Of. Republican. Power. In. The. Senate.

It remains to be seen if he has a pair or not.

Honestly, I'd prefer an amendment stating all congressional votes, unless otherwise specified in the Constitution, will not require more than a simple majority.

118 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:08:30pm

re: #109 stabby

It's so stupid

Black people need different sorts of policies because they're so poor.

This is a statistic I remember from NPR, percent wealth lost in the economic downturn:

average white person: 33%
average hispanic: 72%
average black person: 87%

If you want black people's vote, support the poor. Promise you won't fuck with medicare, promise you won't fuck with social security, give poor people comprehensive health care coverage they can hold on to and afford.

In other words, don't be the modern, Bircher, poor hating, racist fallating Republican party.

Hey Goldburg, remember the Southern Strategy you just lost an election with? It was based on using poor people as surrogates for blacks and opposing their interests!

Bingo. The core GOP platform of enriching the top 0.01% at everyone else's expense is not a winner at the polls. Therefore, distractions (Southern strategy, culture war, pointless foreign wars etc.) are essential. The cold war used to be distraction #1, but that's over now. That might be part of the reason why the crazy is more visible these days.

119 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:08:41pm

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

What's wrong with that? It's a common phrase for when you are annoyed with someone. Jeez.

How to you make a nazi cross?

Poke your finger in his eye!

120 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:09:54pm

re: #117 William Barnett-Lewis

No, the only thing I want is the abolition of the passive filibuster.

121 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:10:11pm

re: #118 EPR-radar

the core GOP platform of enriching the top 0.01% at everyone else's expense is not a winner at the polls

I've been wondering when the larger part of the GOP was going to notice that was the core platform.

122 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:10:24pm

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

What's wrong with that? It's a common phrase for when you are annoyed with someone. Jeez.

On what basis are they annoyed, that she's not telling them what they want to hear?

Van Jones, Valerie Jarrett, Susan Rice. Pattern detected - your party isn't fooling anybody.

Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action.

-Moscow Rules

123 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:12:39pm

re: #122 goddamnedfrank

Eric Holder.

124 Stanghazi  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:12:39pm

re: #122 goddamnedfrank

On what basis are they annoyed, that she's not telling them what they want to hear?

Van Jones, Valerie Jarrett, Susan Rice. Pattern detected - your party isn't fooling anybody.

Eric Holder, Common.....

125 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:14:09pm

re: #122 goddamnedfrank

And they tossed Michael Steele away so hard that he touched down somewhere in the Indian ocean.

126 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:14:18pm

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

What's wrong with that? It's a common phrase for when you are annoyed with someone. Jeez.

Agreed. There's no shortage of legitimate stuff to use against Goldberg. Accusing Goldberg of racism because of this use of "cross" unwisely provides evidence to support the GOP victimhood narrative re: racism.

127 Interesting Times  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:14:54pm

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

Eric Holder.

And Sonia Sotomayor, even though she wasn't quite the same swatch on the Herp-Derp GOP Scary Non-White Person™ card.

128 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:15:07pm

re: #126 EPR-radar

I thought he was just being Mid-Atlantic.

129 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:15:57pm

re: #121 jaunte

I've been wondering when the larger part of the GOP was going to notice that was the core platform.

That's the purpose of Rush et al (and killing public education etc.). The only way to get votes for this is to build a base of the stupid and angry.

130 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:16:32pm

re: #97 ProGunLiberal

Also, who is Angus King going to be Caucusing with in the Senate.

It has been assumed (I think too rashly) that he will always caucus with the Democrats. He sounds like quite a independent shooter, and I would not be surprised if he made the Democrats pay handsomely for every vote.

131 philosophus invidius  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:19:14pm

re: #119 Vicious Babushka

"Cross" is a British slang word, and Goldberg is trying to sound clever by using it.

I don't think it is part of American slang, but maybe it's a regionalism I don't know about.

But Goldberg is a douchebag either way.

132 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:19:32pm

Jonah Goldberg has struck me over the years as someone who really thinks, because he is an editor at NR, that his writings ought to have some profound impact for generations to come.

It's as if William Buckley is the father figure and the son spends his entire life trying to live up to the larger-than-life reputation of the father.

133 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:19:42pm

re: #130 freetoken

It has been assumed (I think too rashly) that he will always caucus with the Democrats. He sounds like quite a independent shooter, and I would not be surprised if he made the Democrats pay handsomely for every vote.

Which is why they need to change the rules as I noted above. Then there is much less ability to blackmail the leadership for a vote.

134 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:20:31pm

re: #133 William Barnett-Lewis

Which is why they need to change the rules as I noted above. Then there is much less ability to blackmail the leadership for a vote.

And destroy a great American tradition?

135 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:21:14pm

re: #132 freetoken

Jonah Goldberg has struck me over the years as someone who really thinks, because he is an editor at NR, that his writings ought to have some profound impact for generations to come.

It's as if William Buckley is the father figure and the son spends his entire life trying to live up to the larger-than-life reputation of the father.

To a certain extent, though Mr. Brooks comes far closer to being an actual intellectual heir to Mr. Buckley's better parts.

136 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:21:21pm

Angus KIng already announced he is going to caucus with the Democrats, although in an opportunistic way:

King noted that the decision was “relatively easy” after the Democrats’ victories on Election Day.

“In the situation where one party has a clear majority and effectiveness is an important criteria, affiliating with the majority makes the most sense,” King said. “The majority has more committee slots to fill, has more control over what bills get considered, and more control over the Senate schedule.”

137 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:21:54pm

There's plenty of non-blacks in Obama's cabinet, has the GOP picked a fight with any of them?

138 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:22:44pm

re: #130 freetoken

I did end up looking. For purposes of committee assignments, he went with the Democrats. He does seem to be on the left a bit, but he needs to be brought into line on wage issues.

57-43. We need 3 more seats. Mark Kirk is one. I would also say the Republican Senators of Ohio, Maine, New Hampshire, and Wisconsin should also be targeted. On a more long range basis, the Republican Senators of Texas, Arizona, and Nevada should also be targeted. That would give 67 Democratic Senators.

We also need a revived ERA Amendment, and ditto for a D.C. Statehood amendment.

139 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:24:52pm

re: #137 goddamnedfrank

There's plenty of non-blacks in Obama's cabinet, has the GOP picked a fight with any of them?

heh, good question.

140 b_sharp  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:25:08pm

The GOP believes racism is gone, that it no longer exists, so pulling all support from under minorities puts them on the same field as whites where hard work and brains are all it takes for the worthy to bubble up through the masses of unworthy.

Since racism no longer exists, all accusations of racism are false and politically motivated.

Everything is about the narrative with them.

141 Interesting Times  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:27:15pm

re: #137 goddamnedfrank

There's plenty of non-blacks in Obama's cabinet, has the GOP picked a fight with any of them?

Elizabeth Warren, if you want to include potential appointments as well. Hmmm, now which group the GOP treats like shit does she belong to...

142 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:27:18pm

re: #138 ProGunLiberal

Over the decades the political parties will morph and trade positions again and again. The US changes very slowly as far as institutions are concerned, which is (obviously) why we are the oldest continuous government in the world.

143 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:27:20pm

re: #131 philosophus invidius

"Cross" is a British slang word, and Goldberg is trying to sound clever by using it.

I don't think it is part of American slang, but maybe it's a regionalism I don't know about.

I was thinking the same thing as he uses words like "ergo" in the New York Post. It's like the dude thinks he's the Architect from the Matrix.

144 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:29:04pm

re: #105 Interesting Times

Pffft. Conservative Fact Check™ told me legal arguments and cases don't exist if that's how you feel.

I liked his opinion here, on the fringed flag arguments...

The nitwits have amongst themselves this strange superstition that the presence of a gold trim on a courtroom's flag somehow imposes some different sort of law than what's expected -- although they cannot get their stories straight on whether it's martial law or maritime law, the two being very different. They have absolutely no legal authority for any of this and seem to be making it up as they go along. They don't seem to have noticed that the gold trim appears only on INDOOR flags, which are made of fairly flimsy material and would hang limp and drab without either breeze or sunlight indoors, so the gold trim provides some esthetic compensation for the lack of sunlight and breeze, and that all OUTDOOR flags, even the ones at military bases and on ships, don't have this fringe, because outdoor flags are made of heavier fabric and the wind and damp would soon ruin a fringe. Back in 1925 the US Attorney-General relied on the opinion of the predecessor to the US Army's Institute of Heraldry that the fringe was not an addition or alteration of the flag, and therefore not illegal, and moreover had no symbolic meaning. Currently the Institute of Heraldry and the non-government Flag Research Center both issue fact sheets debunking this militia myth about the fringe on the flag. There apparently has NEVER been a successful challenge to a court's decision or jurisdiction based on the absence of a correct flag or the presence of an "incorrect" flag in the courtroom.

145 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:29:16pm

re: #140 b_sharp

No, they know racism is not gone. What they are trying to do is convince idiots that it is no longer there, while at the same time feeding it.

146 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:29:27pm

re: #140 b_sharp

The GOP believes racism is gone, that it no longer exists, so pulling all support from under minorities puts them on the same field as whites where hard work and brains are all it takes for the worthy to bubble up through the masses of unworthy.

Since racism no longer exists, all accusations of racism are false and politically motivated.

Everything is about the narrative with them.

Yep.

They want to try and bullshit people into thinking that electing a black POTUS = the end of all racism everywhere. Not true. Their actions and policies these past four years have proven it.

147 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:30:39pm

re: #142 freetoken

I'm hoping that with the Republicans having wrecked themselves demographically, we can drive this country hard to the left.

Though, me being a Social Democrat, that point of the left is farther out than most here.

148 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:31:54pm

re: #140 b_sharp

It was the threads on Trayvon Martin over at pjmedia that made me finally face how racist the Republican party is (no, I wasn't a Republican, but I really didn't know how bad it was). I got that ODS talk is based in racist feeling, but not being able to stomach a black leader of your country isn't nearly as bad as demanding the right to intimidate and shoot any black teenage boy you come across.

I argued and argued in those threads... and lost my last shred of respect for humanity. Yes, they do all think that the only racism in the US is against white people. Yes they really are totally obsessed with resenting black people and resenting the civil rights movement.

One policeman showed up the the thread to point out that there are plenty of racist nutcases in the public, and they tore him down. So much for respect for the police. Come to think of it, they had a similar reaction in favor of stupid Marines making propaganda for the enemy by pissing on dead Taliban on youtube... Apparently Obama is a traitor for mentioning the necessity for military discipline, and actual Marines who agree are also traitors.

149 b_sharp  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:35:57pm

re: #145 ProGunLiberal

No, they know racism is not gone. What they are trying to do is convince idiots that it is no longer there, while at the same time feeding it.

You may believe this, but in observing they way they act, it seems they believe it has been vanquished except for where minorities get special treatment, thus putting whites on the receiving end of racism. I've observed that in their denial they show an ignorance of what constitutes racism, so their denial of it is based primarily on ignorance and wishful thinking.

150 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:37:21pm

re: #149 b_sharp

You may believe this, but in observing they way they act, it seems they believe it has been vanquished except for where minorities get special treatment, thus putting whites on the receiving end of racism. I've observed that in their denial they show an ignorance of what constitutes racism, so their denial of it is based primarily on ignorance and wishful thinking.

Wrapped in an enigma, surrounded by derp.

151 b_sharp  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:37:50pm

re: #150 Varek Raith

Wrapped in an enigma, surrounded by derp.

Derp is big.

152 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:38:14pm

re: #138 ProGunLiberal

I should correct that 57-43 number to 55-45. I thought there were 55 Democrats, and 2 Independents, not 53 Democrats and two Independents. Though, I would add to that list the Republicans Senators from Pennsylvania, Florida and North Carolina as well. Possibly even try to swing Indiana and its senate seat into our column as well. We should try for New-Deal-esque majorities.

153 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:38:20pm

re: #147 ProGunLiberal

Any nations of 314,832,688 (and counting) does not "drive hard" in any direction.

Change is slow.

The old die off, and with them their beliefs.

Goldberg and all the other Bucklye wanna-bes still can't quite get "there" as far as recognition, and they won't. Eventually they will just go away.

This is why ideologues focus so much on the youth in a society. If you can affect a child's thinking that will affect her later in life.

The young today on the whole don't carry some of the prejudices of the grandparents. They do carry with them a contemporary view of the world that itself will, in all likelihood, seem out of place in a hundred years.

For those wanting social change, look for a child to influence.

154 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:38:41pm

re: #149 b_sharp

See, I am more cynical than you on this.

155 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:39:45pm

Very good song I heard this weekend. It's video has a US Civil War theme:

156 b_sharp  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:41:00pm

re: #154 ProGunLiberal

See, I am more cynical than you on this.

Being cynical can be useful but it puts you in a position to assume stereotypes over further investigation. I try to use it as a start not an end.

157 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:42:33pm

re: #149 b_sharp

You may believe this, but in observing they way they act, it seems they believe it has been vanquished except for where minorities get special treatment, thus putting whites on the receiving end of racism. I've observed that in their denial they show an ignorance of what constitutes racism, so their denial of it is based primarily on ignorance and wishful thinking.

They seem worried...

158 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:42:46pm

And speaking of change, yes boys and girls, it's that time of year again.

"Christmas?" you may ask - well yes, and that'll be serviced later.

Now I'm talking about... (insert drum roll ....): UNFCCC COP!

In little more than 3 hours the floor of the UNFCCC meeting will open in Doha, Qatar.

Perhaps I'll do some live blogging this year like previous years, but my schedule will keep me from doing that until Thursday.

In the meantime, get ready for 200 nations huffing and puffing and blowing absolutely no one's house down.

159 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:42:46pm

re: #151 b_sharp

Derp is big.

Peak derp.

160 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:43:58pm

re: #147 ProGunLiberal

I'm hoping that with the Republicans having wrecked themselves demographically, we can drive this country hard to the left.

Though, me being a Social Democrat, that point of the left is farther out than most here.

Any progress we make along these lines will be very slow. The Democrats here would be viewed as a center-right party in most of the rest of the world.

161 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:43:59pm

re: #158 freetoken

And speaking of change, yes boys and girls, it's that time of year again.

"Christmas?" you may ask - well yes, and that'll be serviced later.

Now I'm talking about... (insert drum roll ....): UNFCCC COP!

In little more than 3 hours the floor of the UNFCCC meeting will open in Doha, Qatar.

Perhaps I'll do some live blogging this year like previous years, but my schedule will keep me from doing that until Thursday.

In the meantime, get ready for 200 nations huffing and puffing and blowing absolutely no one's house down.

I'm being followed by DOHA Qatar.

[Link: twitter.com...]

162 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:44:02pm

re: #159 Gus

Peak derp.

Is derp deplete-able, or is it spontaneously generated?

163 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:44:17pm

re: #159 Gus

Derp peak is asymptotic

164 TedStriker  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:45:21pm

re: #162 freetoken

Is derp deplete-able, or is it spontaneously generated?

Derp, unfortunately, is a renewable resource.

165 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:45:24pm

re: #159 Gus

David Lynch presents

Twin Derps

166 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:45:30pm

re: #162 freetoken

Einstein had something to say about that.

167 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:45:44pm

re: #162 freetoken

Is derp deplete-able, or is it spontaneously generated?

Frackable derp. Only problem though is sometimes derp start coming out of the faucet in some communities.

168 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:46:33pm

re: #167 Gus

Frackable derp. Only problem though is sometimes derp start coming out of the faucet in some communities.

I thought the fluoride was supposed to take care of that?

169 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:46:50pm

Drill Derp here, drill derp now!
-- Sarah Palin

170 b_sharp  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:47:00pm

re: #164 TedStriker

Derp, unfortunately, is a renewable resource.

And easily accessible right at the surface. No deep digging required.

171 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:47:15pm

re: #160 EPR-radar

I realize that. I'm hope the massive shrinking the Blue Dogs will help, along with us being able to explain why Social Democratic Programs are the best of the health of the country.

The demographic shifts should aid in this.

172 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:48:54pm

re: #159 Gus

Peak derp.

Peak Derp is only an illusion because in reality Derp is limitless.

173 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:50:32pm

It's a Derp, Derp, Derp, Derp World

174 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:51:13pm

FIGHT!

175 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:51:50pm

re: #171 ProGunLiberal

Especially as history repeats self, telescoping from 1848 to now, and the failed and failing revolutions of areas from the Indus River to the Tell Atlas Mountains.

We should only be worried about keeping Oman moderate, Turkey from going to far in the other direction from hyper-secularism, and keeping Jordan and Morocco afloat. Everything else is negotiable, and Oman has the only government in the Persian Gulf worth having remain. The others SHOULD fall.

176 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:52:50pm
177 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:52:59pm

re: #160 EPR-radar

Any progress we make along these lines will be very slow. The Democrats here would be viewed as a center-right party in most of the rest of the world.

I'm about as close to the center as you can get and still be on the left according to those demographic test thingies. But by Freeper standards I'm a raving Socialist. :(

178 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:53:05pm

re: #159 Gus

Peak derp.

LOL, not yet. The 2016 GOP primaries will be a glorious display of fail and derp, especially since Santorum is currently the anointed successor.

179 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:54:14pm

re: #176 Gus

Why does the Pope hate nativity scenes?

180 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:54:28pm

re: #177 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Here is an idea. Me and you take a political computer test of your choosing, and see how far apart we are politically.

181 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:54:59pm

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

Very good song I heard this weekend. It's video has a US Civil War theme:

[Embedded content]

Gonna need some time to digest that one. Thank you for it, DF.

183 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:55:19pm

re: #173 dragonath

It's a Derp, Derp, Derp, Derp World

But Without a catchy title sequence:

184 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:55:28pm

re: #179 jaunte

Why does the Pope hate nativity scenes?

Sekrit atheist!

185 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:55:54pm

re: #174 Varek Raith

FIGHT!

[Embedded content]

30 seconds of that was all I could take...

186 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:56:24pm

re: #177 watching you tiny alien kittens are

I'm about as close to the center as you can get and still be on the left according to those demographic test thingies. But by Freeper standards I'm a raving Socialist. :(

A long time ago, I described my politics as being "as conservative as a sane gay person can be". My views haven't changed all that much since then.

Back then, I was an R-leaning independent. Now I suppose I'm some kind of communist.

187 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:56:26pm

Found that by Googling derp songified.

188 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:58:34pm

re: #185 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Willing to do my idea?

189 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:58:46pm

re: #183 freetoken

But Without a catchy title sequence:

[Embedded content]

I cannot truly describe the pain that movie gives me

190 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:59:09pm

I commented on PJMedia against Birchers and bigots and said that the stories that Obama Care is/will ruin businesses are wrong.

I got this reaction:

Civil war is coming.

Hey Josh…..better get ready to run.

Because you and your fascist pig buddies are all going to die.

By the way the meme that OC is affecting business are based on misrepresenting changes happening at companies that are every one of them, medical device companies that will face a new 2% tax on all devices made or sold in the US, not based on higher employee costs.

Some of those companies may move some manufacturing outside of the US to avoid the tax and all of them took hits to their stocks. You wouldn't think a 2% tax would make so much of a difference.

191 palomino  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:59:36pm

This is a really lazy piece, even for Jonah Goldberg. I know the Post's standards are worm belly low, but JG could have at least tried to make a coherent point.

All he manages to do is express the old paranoia that a liberal media bias is making life too rough for white guys like himself. He also throws in the canard that the Dems have more to answer for in terms of racial prejudice than the GOP. To believe this, you must first ignore the last 50 years of southern strategy, then convince yourself that blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are all too dumb to realize that the Dems have been duping them for decades.

And, as usual, he mischaracterizes statements by a few on the left in order to paint all Dems; then acts shocked that anyone could see bigotry in his party; and finally uses two and only two names (Colin and Condoleeza) to "prove" there's no racism in the GOP. I would have been embarrassed to turn in something like this back when I was a freshman in college taking Poli Sci 101.

192 b_sharp  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 7:59:41pm

Today's derp has scraped the hair off my head, so I'm going to go place my scuffed and bald pate on a pillow and snore the night away.

Goodnight little scaly ones.

193 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:00:18pm

re: #178 Lidane

LOL, not yet. The 2016 GOP primaries will be a glorious display of fail and derp, especially since Santorum is currently the anointed successor.

Santorum vs. Christie in a debate could be very amusing, especially if Christie goes after the religious whack job positions of Santorum (e.g., getting rid of contraception).

194 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:00:28pm

I see the Packers are being reminded that Aaron Rodger's arm, no matter how good, is always going to save them from not having a defense. Feh.

195 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:02:22pm

re: #193 EPR-radar

Santorum vs. Christie in a debate could be very amusing, especially if Christie goes after the religious whack job positions of Santorum (e.g., getting rid of contraception).

I actually wonder if Christie wouldn't be a) happier & b) a better candidate as a blue dog democrat...

196 Lidane  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:03:53pm

re: #193 EPR-radar

Santorum vs. Christie in a debate could be very amusing, especially if Christie goes after the religious whack job positions of Santorum (e.g., getting rid of contraception).

If he runs in 2016, Christie will spend the entire primary season yelling at people for blaming him for Mitt Romney's loss.

197 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:05:49pm

re: #176 Gus

Re-emphasizing what I wrote earlier about this, for the media outlets to write stories about what the Pope wrote on the legendary birth of Jesus of Nazareth, as if it's news, only shows how ignorant said media or their writers have to be.

The Pope isn't saying anything that hasn't been discussed ad naseum the past, oh, let's say, 10 centuries or so.

198 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:06:01pm

re: #195 William Barnett-Lewis

I actually wonder if Christie wouldn't be a) happier & b) a better candidate as a blue dog democrat...

Christie appointed a Muslim judge in NJ, and his response to RWNJ mewling over this appointment was good (he called the bigots "bigots", which is terribly rare in the GOP). He doesn't seem to be a good match for the social conservatives in the GOP.

199 stabby  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:07:57pm

I was gonna fix a typo in a comment, but the "edit comment" buttons have disappeared. I wonder why.

200 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:09:26pm

The Pope is just, after many many centuries of writings about this, getting around to stating the obvious: Trying to put (the alleged) Jesus' birthday on Dec 25 has no historical merit.

The holiday in Roman world celebrated during the time of the winter solstice was Saturnalia. Putting Jesus' birthday during this time was clearly a move by the 4th century newly-Christianized Emperors to Christianize a then current popular holiday.

And the last 16 centuries has seen a non-stop flow of pagan religious themes continually plastered over the old Saturnalia.

This is not "news".

201 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:09:46pm

re: #199 stabby

I was gonna fix a typo in a comment, but the "edit comment" buttons have disappeared. I wonder why.

Same here.

202 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:10:15pm

Derptivus

203 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:10:23pm

re: #201 Gus

Same here.

Code Goblins.

204 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:10:41pm

Interesting, the pencil works for me...

205 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:11:06pm

re: #197 freetoken

Why is it OK to hate them if their hate is wrong? I have no particular love for the Bishop of Rome but simply being a mirror of that hate does no one any good.

206 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:12:11pm

re: #205 William Barnett-Lewis

Why is it OK to hate them if their hate is wrong? I have no particular love for the Bishop of Rome but simply being a mirror of that hate does no one any good.

To whom are you referring?

207 EPR-radar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:12:22pm

re: #197 freetoken

Re-emphasizing what I wrote earlier about this, for the media outlets to write stories about what the Pope wrote on the legendary birth of Jesus of Nazareth, as if it's news, only shows how ignorant said media or their writers have to be.

The Pope isn't saying anything that hasn't been discussed ad naseum the past, oh, let's say, 10 centuries or so.

I never get tired of the fact that any attempt to define "delusion" for the purposes of psychiatry needs to have a major exception made for commonly held religious beliefs that are a) irrational, b) strongly held, and c) without basis in reality.

208 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:15:07pm

Ah, ok, it's a Fundamentalist Atheism night tonight. Gotcha.

Have fun bashing all believers, I'll catch you tomorrow.

209 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:18:26pm

re: #208 William Barnett-Lewis

Ah, ok, it's a Fundamentalist Atheism night tonight. Gotcha.

Have fun bashing all believers, I'll catch you tomorrow.

Huh, what? I was watching some videos.

210 jaunte  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:19:23pm

re: #209 Gus

I must have missed something.

211 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:19:24pm

I ain't done nothing!
;)

212 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:21:21pm

re: #211 Varek Raith

I ain't done nothing!

You're always guilty. Just take one for the team.

213 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:21:52pm

re: #211 Varek Raith

I ain't done nothing!
;)

I had my hands in my atheist pockets. //

214 Varek Raith  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:26:13pm

Camerabot is annoying.
;)

215 TheSwedish  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:26:33pm

I would love to see Ta - Nehisi Coates take apart Goldberg's bullshit.

That is all.

216 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:33:45pm

re: #200 freetoken

The Pope is just, after many many centuries of writings about this, getting around to stating the obvious: Trying to put (the alleged) Jesus' birthday on Dec 25 has no historical merit.

The holiday in Roman world celebrated during the time of the winter solstice was Saturnalia. Putting Jesus' birthday during this time was clearly a move by the 4th century newly-Christianized Emperors to Christianize a then current popular holiday.

And the last 16 centuries has seen a non-stop flow of pagan religious themes continually plastered over the old Saturnalia.

This is not "news".

Saturnalia was celebrated on December 17 with festivities extended to the 23rd. Saturnalia customs probably influenced the celebration of Christmas, but the actual day taken over for Christmas came from the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun", instituted during the 3rd century by the Emperor Aurelian.

217 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:36:26pm

re: #216 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

That is the direct calendrical antecedent for sure. I am under the impression though that the older, and more widespread, celebrations around Saturnalia provided the merriment that was swept up into the new Christianized holiday.

218 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:41:39pm

re: #217 freetoken

That is the direct calendrical antecedent for sure. I am under the impression though that the older, and more widespread, celebrations around Saturnalia provided the merriment that was swept up into the new Christianized holiday.

That's what I meant by "Saturnalia customs probably influenced the celebration of Christmas".

219 Mich-again  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:44:54pm

Is he like Chris Farley as Tommy Boy? Does his dad own the business?

220 dragonath  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:47:25pm

And now, your random dose of Shatner:

221 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:48:31pm

re: #220 dragonath

And now, your random dose of Shatner:

[Embedded content]

Klingon bastard! You killed my son!!

222 Mich-again  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 8:57:38pm

re: #216 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Saturnalia was celebrated on December 17 with festivities extended to the 23rd. Saturnalia customs probably influenced the celebration of Christmas, but the actual day taken over for Christmas came from the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun", instituted during the 3rd century by the Emperor Aurelian.

The precise date of Jesus's birthday isn't important. I'd rather see the Pope remind Catholics like Marco Rubio what the Church has taught about science for the last 8 centuries or so.

"The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false."- Thomas Aquinas

223 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 9:02:17pm

One of the reasons (but not the only) that I set aside the Pages I was working on with regards to the "Historical Jesus" (precipitated by the recent book of Bart Ehrman on the subject) is that in the end people will simply be offended and go off huffing, offended and all that jazz.

It is ultimately one of the most challenging of subjects to tackle in a mixed crowd. Origins of religions is a very, very touchy subject.

224 economicsprofessor  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 9:03:21pm

re:re: #29 jaunte

Here is what the Secret Service actually had to say at the time (3 years ago) the 400% increase you reference was being reported:

[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

Daily Kos is also linking to the 400% increase article. Unfortunately they are not linking to the CBS article which quotes the Service itself.

225 philosophus invidius  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 9:20:35pm

I've just learned that the housing bubble was definitely not caused by banking deregulation, but rather by the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, which reduced discriminatory credit practices against low-income neighborhoods. Here is all the proof you need:
Image: CRAblame.png

226 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 9:28:02pm

re: #225 philosophus invidius

Obviously, it was the CRA that was to blame, more recent Republican policies had nothing to do with it...*cough*Bullshit*cough*

June 2002: President G.W. Bush sets goal of increasing minority home owners by at least 5.5 million by 2010 through tax credits, subsidies and a Fannie Mae commitment of $440 billion to establish NeighborWorks America with faith-based organizations.

December 2003: President Bush signs the American Dream Downpayment Act to be implemented under the Department of Housing and Urban Development. The goal was to provide a maximum downpayment assistance grant of either $10,000 or six percent of the purchase price of the home, whichever was greater. In addition, the Bush Administration committed to reforming the homebuying process that would lower closing costs by approximately $700 per loan. It was said it would further stimulate homeownership for all Americans.

227 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 9:34:05pm

Ugh, I just stumbled into a christian identity site while trying to source a quote. It is hard to believe that people actually accept the Blood Libel as truth in 2012, I mean come on guys WTF?

Sigh...I think I have had about all I can stand of web surfing for today, I will see you lizards later.

228 Bubblehead II  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 9:37:59pm

Totally OT. But this is just weird. Hopping around You Tube looking at Falkland stuff and ran across this.

UK Sends Nuclear Submarine to Falkland Islands


Weird. Sounds like it is a computer generated female voice,

Give at listen and see if you think it is as weird as I do.

229 lostlakehiker  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 9:42:06pm

The text of the article points out that Republicans named Condoleeza Rice Secretary of State, that the Davis-Bacon act was passed with the declared intent to keep blacks out of government contracting jobs, that liberal policies for schools have failed (my observation, that's not exactly true...the current school policy in Washington, DC is not so much liberal as corrupt, flat out and openly corrupt. Michelle Rhee was a liberal reformer, thrown out because her reforms failed to put the students last, behind the various interest groups in DC that profited and continue to profit from a comfy status quo). Liberal Rahm Emmanuel is having his difficulties with the same corrupt status quo but he seems to be, if not winning, at least getting a compromise that isn't an utter defeat for education reform in Chicago.

Goldberg, in the same sentence, simply goes on to claim that liberal policies have failed with respect to crime and poverty. That isn't entirely true either. It's true, if failure is defined as worse than hoped for or expected. It's not true, if failure is defined as worse than it used to be. Crime is down more in cities that have put in place semi-conservative policies such as broken-window theory, stop and frisk, and preemptive policing of computer-identified hot spots. But it's down in general, and for that matter, some liberals have taken up some of the reforms mentioned above. As to poverty, it's worse than it was four years ago but it's not worse than it was 10 or 20 years ago. Overall standards of living have risen and though they've risen more in, say, Texas than in, say, California, that could be put down to a catch-up effect.

But this is par for the course with political argument. You stake your case out broadly. You interpret your claims charitably, and the other side's failures, uncharitably. And then the debate gets under way.

Goldberg hasn't actually called for the Republicans to be racist. Just to try and help minorities. Since liberals believe that what conservatives think will help, will hurt, they'll call it racist, Goldberg says.

230 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 9:47:24pm

re: #228 Bubblehead II

Totally OT. But this is just weird. Hopping around You Tube looking at Falkland stuff and ran across this.

UK Sends Nuclear Submarine to Falkland Islands

[Embedded content]

Weird. Sounds like it is a computer generated female voice,Give at listen and see if you think it is as weird as I do.

Yeah, it's a computer voice. They use it on their other video. Some weird Illuminati channel.

231 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 9:57:39pm

re: #228 Bubblehead II

Totally OT. But this is just weird. Hopping around You Tube looking at Falkland stuff and ran across this.

UK Sends Nuclear Submarine to Falkland Islands

[Embedded content]


Weird. Sounds like it is a computer generated female voice,Give at listen and see if you think it is as weird as do.

Iranian PressTV. Sounds like a fairly high quality, large dictionary computer generated narration. The pronunciation of Damascus towards the beginning is a giveaway though, composited together from separate syllables.

232 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:07:55pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

Iranian PressTV. Sounds like a fairly high quality, large dictionary computer generated narration. The pronunciation of Damascus towards the beginning is a giveaway though, composited together from separate syllables.

Yeah. It's straight out propaganda. But the first segment is from Russia Today: [Link: rt.com...]

While Israel believes that the road to Tehran is a straight “pre-emptive” military attack super-highway, the US and UK seem to believe that the road to Tehran runs through Damascus.

­This might explain the growing turmoil in Syria that’s being used to try to promote a Libya-like UN Security Council resolution which, if passed, would certainly have Libya-like results…

233 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:12:46pm

Flapdoodle. I still can't believe that so many people take RT seriously.

234 Kragar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:20:02pm

Well, just about finished all my major shopping for the kids today.

235 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:20:51pm

LOL The author is an Adrian Salbuchi who also gets a mention in ADL and wrote this nonsense:

2012: Year of the World Government

The Private Global Power Elite embedded in major governments is dead set on imposing World Government on us sooner rather than later. Let’s look at 12 mega-processes – veritable “Triggers” – that we infer they are using to achieve their goals.

­All roads lead to World Government. This should come as no surprise. London’s Financial Times openly articulated this view in an article by their chief foreign affairs commentator, Gideon Rachman, published on 8 December 2009, whose title said it all: “And Now for a World Government.” These goals are echoed by the Trilateral Commission, CFR and Bilderberg insiders – even by the Vatican.

...

Twelve Triggers for World Government

11) Staged “Religious” Event. The growing need of the masses for meaning in their lives makes them easy victims of a Hollywood-staged, 3D virtual reality hologram show, orchestrating a “second coming”. An electronically engineered “messianic figure” acting in sync with Elite global objectives? Who would dare go against God himself?

12) Staged “Alien Contact.” This too may be in the works. For decades, large sectors of world population have been programmed to believe in aliens. Here too, hologram technology could stage a “space vehicle landing” – on the White House lawn, of course – highlighting the “need” for Mankind to have “unified representation” in the face of extraterrestrials. Further justification for world government?

What do such interlocking “crises” have in common? Global warming, pandemics, “international terrorism”, financial collapse, economic depression, even alien contacts? They all serve to show that they cannot be addressed by any single nation state, thus “justifying” the need for World Government.

2012: We must stay especially alert, understanding things the way they really are and not the way the global TV Masters want us to believe they are.

Good times.

236 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:22:54pm

re: #234 Kragar

I am SURE you haven't finished! Back to Wallmart for you!

237 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:23:57pm

re: #235 Gus

LOL The author is an Adrian Salbuchi who also gets a mention in ADL and wrote this nonsense:

2012: Year of the World Government

Good times.

Another page:

Global Warming – As the global economy enters Zero Growth Mode, the main economic driver is shifting from Growth Expansion to Consumption Contraction. The coming “carbon credits” might very well be the scheme that opens the way to full societal control.4 The Environmental factor which received so much publicity with Al Gore has the virtue of being beyond the control of any one Nation-State and thus justifies full global control by world governing entities.

Elsewhere he babble about Zionists controlling the USA.

AMERICA RULES OVER THE WORLD, BUT…. ZIONISM RULES OVER AMERICA!

When you understand this, 90% of what’s going on becomes automatically clear. Sure, you might say, “it’s not be all that clear-cut”. Granted: it’s not just “America” and its puppet Obamas and Bushes, but also the UK and its puppet Camerons and Blairs, France, Italy and Spain with their puppet Sarkozys, Berlusconis and Rodriguez Zapateros…, and most of the rest of the world including my own country, Argentina, with its despicable Menems, Alfonsins, Kirchners and Cavallos…

See. Providing further proof that even Peronistas are in cahoots with the Zionist overlords. //

238 Kragar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:25:18pm

re: #236 Dancing along the light of day

I am SURE you haven't finished! Back to Wallmart for you!

I was able to skip Walmart entirely

239 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:26:36pm

Ouch. That's too bad regardless of how one feels.

240 Kragar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:26:49pm

re: #235 Gus

LOL The author is an Adrian Salbuchi who also gets a mention in ADL and wrote this nonsense:

2012: Year of the World Government

Good times.

No mention of infiltration by Transsexual Nazis Atheists from Mars? I find that suspicious.

241 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:29:40pm

re: #240 Kragar

No mention of infiltration by Transsexual Nazis Atheists from Mars? I find that suspicious.

Think this is the first time I ever read something about a false flag alien invasion. The man's a comic genius!

242 Kragar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:31:39pm

re: #241 Gus

Think this is the first time I ever read something about an false flag alien invasion. The man's a comic genius!

That was the plot for "The Watchmen" comics.

243 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:31:49pm

re: #239 Gus

[Embedded content]

Ouch. That's too bad regardless of how one feels.

Heart attack so it wasn't an operational incident.

244 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:32:20pm

re: #242 Kragar

That was the plot for "The Watchmen" comics.

Ahhh. OK.

245 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:33:17pm

Fluoride, Trilateral Commission, CFR, Bilderberg, Vatican, and comic books.

246 Kragar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:36:11pm

re: #245 Gus

Fluoride, Trilateral Commission, CFR, Bilderberg, Vatican, and comic books.

Needs more HAARP, chemtrails, and Glomar Explorer

247 The Gender Ambiguity of a Flea  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:37:51pm

re: #229 lostlakehiker

Goldberg hasn't actually called for the Republicans to be racist. Just to try and help minorities. Since liberals believe that what conservatives think will help, will hurt, they'll call it racist, Goldberg says.

No, there's way more to the article that that. Take. for example:

And it helps a feckless left-wing black political class explain away its own failures. Racial slander is like duct tape: There’s no limit to what you can do with it.

Jonah gets to be the decider on what's racist, and black folks who invoke racism are just agency-less dupes or bitter liberals. And black politicians that decry racism are just covering for their own incompetence and corruption, because Jonah says so. Therefore, Jonah, with his vast experience of blackness, gets to absolve Republicans of all past accusations of racism, and provide an indulgence proof against future ones.

248 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:39:51pm

re: #234 Kragar

Well, just about finished all my major shopping for the kids today.

Christmas or Holiday shopping?

//

249 Kragar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 10:41:43pm

5 Ridiculous Origins of Famous Urban Legends

#2. The Illuminati Was Dreamed Up by a 20th Century Paranoid Anti-Semite

The Ridiculous Origin:

Nesta Webster was a 1920s British historian, writer, propagandist and Nazi sympathizer who had a less-than-secret vendetta against Jews. If you're unfamiliar with the Roaring '20s, you might be wondering how such a person could gain influence in pre-WWII Britain. If you've read The Sun Also Rises, or a biography of Henry Ford, you know that anti-Semitism was up there with stupid-looking pants and the Charleston in terms of things rich white people lost their goddamned minds over.

Webster was married to a superintendent of the British police, which rendered her pretty much untouchable, and she was even tight with Winston Churchill a few decades before he came to his goddamn senses. While Webster wasn't the only crazy anti-Semite working at the time, she used an ability to weave far-reaching conspiracies and a willingness to have sex with powerful men to become hugely influential. And then she got really crazy.

While laboring in the bullshit mines of run-of-the-mill anti-Semitism, Webster struck gold when she proposed an elaborate historical bad-guy cult that worked in alliance with the Jews and was responsible for everything bad that had ever happened. She was studying a fringe conspiracy theory that the French Revolution was secretly orchestrated by a tiny, long extinct secret society called the Bavarian Illuminati, when she decided "What if that, but like the Jews are in on it, too!?"

Noticing that people rather liked her theory that the decisions they disagreed with were secretly decided at secret meetings they weren't invited to, she started expanding it to include various other historical events she deemed unsavory. The theory was too elaborate to blame just the Jews and Illuminati, so she had to construct a vast network of secret societies, all working together. Basically, if you dared to dabble with suspicious concepts such as "science" and "free thought," you were in on the conspiracy.

Pretty much all the legends of the Illuminati in today's public consciousness and popular culture can be traced back to Webster, who greatly exaggerated and even completely fabricated the facts. Her massively ballooned, cartoonishly evil version of the Illuminati is the version that Americans first heard about, and the one whose mythology has since been further twisted by various authors.

The moral of the story: You can get away with saying some pretty crazy stuff if you fuck the right people.

250 Kragar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:00:39pm

I killed it.

251 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:02:03pm

re: #250 Kragar

Deceased, return to sender!

252 Kragar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:04:07pm

re: #251 Dancing along the light of day

Deceased, return to sender!

It's passed on, ceased to be.

253 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:04:59pm

re: #250 Kragar

I killed it.

Bombard it with some radiation, maybe it'll rise up as a ghoul.

//

254 Kragar  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:08:34pm

re: #253 Targetpractice

Bombard it with some radiation, maybe it'll rise up as a ghoul.

//

Nah, has to be alive to convert

255 Targetpractice  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:09:37pm

re: #254 Kragar

Nah, has to be alive to convert

Okay, then crack open its head, haul out the brain, and jam some Tesla coils in there.

256 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:21:11pm

And... they're off....

For 12 days.

257 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:22:03pm

re: #256 freetoken

And... they're off....

For 12 days.

258 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:22:15pm

On the first day of COP18 my true love gave to me.
A Hummmmmer in a tree.

259 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:26:26pm

For all the newbies who show up, the first reality to accept (and if you do, it'll save you some disorientation): The UNFCCC isn't really about stopping climate change.

260 Gus  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:32:13pm

re: #259 freetoken

For all the newbies who show up, the first reality to accept (and if you do, it'll save you some disorientation): The UNFCCC isn't really about stopping climate change.

Just another COP where everyone listens to themselves talk, pat themselves on the back, blame everything on the USA, and then ask for more money from the west until they figure something out.

261 freetoken  Sun, Nov 25, 2012 11:41:06pm

re: #260 Gus

The entire purpose of the UN is to talk. That is what it is supposed to do.

That's why all the fear mongering about AGENDA21!! and any other UN conspiracy is nuts. All the UN does, in its large assemblies, is to give whatever nation wants to show up a platform to speak, whatever said nation wants to say.

The UNFCCC was never set up with any real power to do anything. It was always just a mechanism to allow for perpetual meetings. It happened that after a few years of being set up in 1992 that participants did in fact produce an agreement (Kyoto Protocol) that was adopted by some members, an agreement that now expires without any replacement.

Now the mechanism created (UNFCCC) perpetuates itself doing exactly what it was created to do - create meetings for nations to come together and talk.

So that is what they do - talk.

262 engineer cat  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:42:20am

It will require going over the heads of black and white liberal slanderers to offer a sincere alternative to failed liberal policies on schools, poverty, crime, etc.

let me know if you ever think of any, moron

263 freetoken  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:43:34am
264 Kragar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:46:18am

re: #262 engineer cat

It will require going over the heads of black and white liberal slanderers to offer a sincere alternative to failed liberal policies on schools, poverty, crime, etc.

let me know if you ever think of any, moron

Obviously we need more homeschooling, laws to make sure wealth redistribution only goes from the poor to the rich, and stiffer penalties for petty crimes to keep the private prison industry a thriving market

265 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:55:35am

Morning, all

266 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 1:00:54am

re: #263 freetoken

Great stuff.

An era that won't soon be easily duplicated.

Pity

267 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 1:44:06am

The article reminds me of why I am careful of using the term "racist" or "racism" unless it is a clear-cut case. Their argument in the article seems to be that that since there are people willing to call them "racist" at the drop of a hat, why worry about the term at all?

268 freetoken  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 1:44:39am

The video streaming from the COP18 meeting is worse than in the previous 3 years. Not only is the audio dropping out significantly, but the video looks like it was shot on a 16:9 camera but the Silverlight plugin is showing me video in essentially 4:3 .

And then somehow they put their chips on the "technology" savior for climate change.

269 freetoken  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 1:52:03am

Jessye Norman:


270 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 2:02:14am

re: #269 freetoken

Just incredible.

Favorited.

271 freetoken  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 2:10:58am

First insight of the COP (which is sort of like reading entrails): Nicaragua, as is their Bolivarian custom, gave their opening "3 minute" statement taking up much more time than allotted. The Qatari president of the COP immediately after makes a speech about limiting time and suggested they create an award to be presented at the end to go to the representative that actually stays under 3 minutes.

The Qatari president looks like an old pro at these things.

272 Kragar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 2:25:24am

re: #271 freetoken

First insight of the COP (which is sort of like reading entrails): Nicaragua, as is their Bolivarian custom, gave their opening "3 minute" statement taking up much more time than allotted. The Qatari president of the COP immediately after makes a speech about limiting time and suggested they create an award to be presented at the end to go to the representative that actually stays under 3 minutes.

The Qatari president looks like an old pro at these things.

What they need to do is hold a multinational symposium to discuss the criteria of the purposed award.
/

Meanwhile, I need to get to bed and wait for the Unification Wars.

The Unification Wars, also known as the Wars of Unification, the Unity Wars, The Unification or just The Unity, were a series of conflicts fought on Terra during the 30th Millennium at the end of the Age of Strife. It was during these campaigns that the Emperor of Mankind first publicly revealed himself to a desperate humanity and began his conquest of Terra to unify the techno-barbarian nations that dominated the sacred homeworld of Mankind and forge the foundation of the Imperium of Man.

273 freetoken  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 2:46:32am
274 freetoken  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 2:56:26am

Hehe, the Qatari COP president, who is now giving a press conference, really is a pro at this.

A Chinese journo asks him about the fact that Qatar, the host, has the largest per capita CO2 pollution in the world. The Qatari president immediately answers by explaining why a nation's total output is the only important matter (because the atmosphere doesn't care about "per capita") - this all without calling out China explicitly as the largest national output nation.

275 freetoken  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:09:03am

I believe the US press conference is next:

[Link: unfccc4.meta-fusion.com...]

276 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:21:48am

My gosh, 2AM to 10AM, 12AM to 8 AM. My whole world is upside down. And this week ain't getting any better.
Good morning Honcos!!!

277 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:25:15am

Hillsborough deputies: Teen kills dad to keep mom from being beaten and choked
PLANT CITY — A teenager defending his mother as his father beat and choked her Saturday night shot and killed him, authorities said.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

278 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:26:29am

re: #276 Cannadian Club akbar

My gosh, 2AM to 10AM, 12AM to 8 AM. My whole world is upside down. And this week ain't getting any better.
Good morning Honcos!!!

Welcome to my world, for the past 15 years!!

((and for the 20 before that, I was 24/7 as a small business owner.,,so I guess I should be happy!!))

279 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:28:21am

re: #277 Cannadian Club akbar

Poor kid. How traumatic

Most at that age are trying to figure out which weapon they should use to eliminate a video game "villain"

This kid,,,, watch dad kill mom or kill dad!!

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:30:27am

re: #278 sattv4u2

Welcome to my world, for the past 15 years!!

((and for the 20 before that, I was 24/7 as a small business owner.,,so I guess I should be happy!!))

You should thank everyone for helping you. Because, you didn't stay awake on your own.
/

281 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:33:25am

re: #280 Cannadian Club akbar

You should thank everyone for helping you. Because, you didn't stay awake on your own.
/

I thank the 125 + monitors in the control room
I thank our booking dept in Colorado for calling often
I thank the old pieces of equipment which have audible alarms every time there's an anomaly with them (about once every 30 minutes or so).
I thank the Gratis coffee the company provides

And most of all, I want to thank all the little people that make this all possible

282 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:35:30am

re: #281 sattv4u2

I thank the 125 + monitors in the control room
I thank our booking dept in Colorado for calling often
I thank the old pieces of equipment which have audible alarms every time there's an anomaly with them (about once every 30 minutes or so).
I thank the Gratis coffee the company provides

And most of all, I want to thank all the little people that make this all possible

But, but, ROADS!!! And the such!! LAZY!!!!

283 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:39:34am

re: #281 sattv4u2

I thank the 125 + monitors in the control room
I thank our booking dept in Colorado for calling often
I thank the old pieces of equipment which have audible alarms every time there's an anomaly with them (about once every 30 minutes or so).
I thank the Gratis coffee the company provides

And most of all, I want to thank all the little people that make this all possible

And let's face it, without the Russians, you wouldn't have a job.
/

284 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:47:28am

re: #283 Cannadian Club akbar

And let's face it, without the Russians, you wouldn't have a job.
/

Yes. Vodka does have it's place here !!

((shhhhhhhh))

285 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:53:54am

re: #284 sattv4u2

Yes. Vodka does have it's place here !!

((shhhhhhhh))

Few will get the joke.

286 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:55:20am

re: #285 Cannadian Club akbar

So,, did the gin joint keep the game on for you till the end this time, Sally?

287 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:56:57am

re: #286 sattv4u2

So,, did the gin joint keep the game on for you till the end this time, Sally?

The manager actually apologized to me for last week. He was sincere. I had a pitcher and some jalapeno poppers.

288 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:57:24am

re: #287 Cannadian Club Akbar

The manager actually apologized to me for last week. He was sincere. I had a pitcher and some jalapeno poppers.

gratis?

289 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 3:58:14am

re: #288 sattv4u2

gratis?

No.

290 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:08:35am

Hi Lizardia!

35 hour to take-off.

291 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:10:44am

Speaking of the War on women:

292 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:10:57am

re: #289 Cannadian Club Akbar

No.

feh

Did you at least get a waitress to smile at you?

293 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:11:28am

re: #290 Vicious Babushka

Hi Lizardia!

35 hour to take-off.

You piloting the next NASA mission!?!?!

294 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:13:20am

re: #293 sattv4u2

You piloting the next NASA mission!?!?!

Feels like it.

What's better to take on board, a roll-on carryon or a backpack? I'm thinking the backpack might be more convenient.

295 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:16:11am

re: #294 Vicious Babushka

Feels like it.

What's better to take on board, a roll-on carryon or a backpack? I'm thinking the backpack might be more convenient.

my backpack holds my 17" laptop.

296 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:17:57am

re: #294 Vicious Babushka

Feels like it.

What's better to take on board, a roll-on carryon or a backpack? I'm thinking the backpack might be more convenient.

Depends

Are you changing planes at all during this?
If so, the roll on. Easier to manage going from gate to gate, especially if the flights aren't arriving/ leaving close together gate and timewise. Wandering around an airport with a backpack killing time is a pain

297 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:18:57am

re: #295 Cannadian Club Akbar

my backpack holds my 17" laptop.

I take a carry on plus my laptop bag

(and BTW,, most of the traveling I do, I only need the carry on for all my clothes and stuff,,, no checked luggage usually)

298 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:22:29am

We have a 24-hour layover in Amsterdam, we have to claim our luggage at the carousel and then find a storage locker for it and just take our carryons to the hotel where we will be spending the night.

I like the backpack because it's hands-free, but Zedushka prefers the roller.

299 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:23:12am

re: #298 Vicious Babushka

We have a 24-hour layover in Amsterdam, we have to claim our luggage at the carousel and then find a storage locker for it and just take our carryons to the hotel where we will be spending the night.

I like the backpack because it's hands-free, but Zedushka prefers the roller.

I'm with Zedushka on this one

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:31:51am

Gonna go try to figure something out. BBIAB. Nice to see you guys again.

301 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:33:21am

re: #300 Cannadian Club Akbar

Gonna go try to figure something out. BBIAB. Nice to see you guys again.

NOW you want to try to figure something out!?!?!

302 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:42:52am

re: #298 Vicious Babushka

We have a 24-hour layover in Amsterdam, we have to claim our luggage at the carousel and then find a storage locker for it and just take our carryons to the hotel where we will be spending the night.

I like the backpack because it's hands-free, but Zedushka prefers the roller.

So Amsterdam is a way station, where's the destination, if I may ask?

303 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:43:09am

re: #302 sattv4u2

So Amsterdam is a way station, where's the destination, if I may ask?

Jerusalem.

304 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:44:32am

re: #303 Vicious Babushka

Jerusalem.

:)

I thought it might be.

305 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 4:48:30am

re: #303 Vicious Babushka

I'm actually supposed to be going there this coming summer for a project with a facility (like ours) that we do a lot of business with

[Link: www.rrsat.com...]

(disclaimer,, I was supposed to go this past spring as well as last winter, but each time it fell through))

306 Lidane  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 5:24:06am

Back to the work grind after Thanksgiving. Ah well.

Also, not quite sure what to make of this:

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

307 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 5:25:25am

Don't wanna go to work. Wanna stay on vacation. But gotta get paycheck.

ARGH!

308 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 5:25:33am
309 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 5:29:21am

re: #307 Targetpractice

Don't wanna go to work. Wanna stay on vacation. But gotta get paycheck.

ARGH!

What is this "vacation" of which you speak!?!?

310 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 5:31:16am

re: #309 sattv4u2

What is this "vacation" of which you speak!?!?

The one week I got off in over 6 months.

311 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 5:35:18am

re: #310 Targetpractice

The one week I got off in over 6 months.

heh,, I measure my "time off" in hours!!!

// kinda,,, but when you work in a 24/7 environment that includes being "on call" whenever you're not "on schedule", kinda not!!

312 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 5:36:39am

re: #311 sattv4u2

heh,, I measure my "time off" in hours!!!

// kinda,,, but when you work in a 24/7 environment that includes being "on call" whenever you're not "on schedule", kinda not!!

Well, how do I know you're not just an artificially intelligent computer?

//

313 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 5:43:14am

re: #312 Targetpractice

Well, how do I know you're not just an artificially intelligent computer?

//

100011101010100110001001101

314 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 6:09:42am

re: #194 William Barnett-Lewis

I see the Packers are being reminded that Aaron Rodger's arm, no matter how good, is always going to save them from not having a defense. Feh.

They also had to face the Giants with New York coming off of its bye week. The Giants used their time to get some injured players back and to work hard on their passing game. Their defense was also fierce. The Packers were hurt more by their offensive line problems than by lack of defense as Rogers got sacked 5 times. Cheeseheads watching the game got to experience how Bears fans feel as their QB gets chased and slammed into the ground.

315 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 6:19:54am

re: #312 Targetpractice

Well, how do I know you're not just an artificially intelligent computer?

//

I can assure you that there is no intelligence here, artificial or otherwise

wait,,, huh ???

316 sattv4u2  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 6:48:32am

Ans on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons

317 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 6:56:17am

re: #264 Kragar

Obviously we need more homeschooling, laws to make sure wealth redistribution only goes from the poor to the rich, and stiffer penalties for petty crimes to keep the private prison industry a thriving market

Sounds like the UK in the mid-1800s minus the designated nobility and royal family.

318 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 7:30:13am

re: #298 Vicious Babushka

We have a 24-hour layover in Amsterdam, we have to claim our luggage at the carousel and then find a storage locker for it and just take our carryons to the hotel where we will be spending the night.

I like the backpack because it's hands-free, but Zedushka prefers the roller.

While you're there check out the Yotel. I assume you already have reservations elsewhere but the Yotel is awesome and it's in the airport. Something to keep in mind for future layovers.

319 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 7:33:11am

re: #318 Killgore Trout

While you're there check out the Yotel. I assume you already have reservations elsewhere but the Yotel is awesome and it's in the airport. Something to keep in mind for future layovers.

At Narita Airport in Japan, I have heard they rent out "sleeping containers" that are about the size of morgue drawers.

320 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 7:38:56am

re: #319 Vicious Babushka

At Narita Airport in Japan, I have heard they rent out "sleeping containers" that are about the size of morgue drawers.

The have those in the city for hard working buisinessmen too. Yotel is somewhere between container and hotel room. Great for layovers. I think they have one in London now too.

321 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 7:39:38am

re: #319 Vicious Babushka

At Narita Airport in Japan, I have heard they rent out "sleeping containers" that are about the size of morgue drawers.

Which may sound weird, but would also be a lot more comfortable than seeing how people sack out for layovers in the various US airports.

322 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 7:48:05am

Two more days off here, but the last two are dedicated to list of things I have to do that I procrastinated from on the others.

323 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 7:50:14am

Gas tanker Ob River attempts first winter Arctic crossing

A large tanker carrying liquified natural gas (LNG) is set to become the first ship of its type to sail across the Arctic.

The carrier, Ob River, left Norway in November and has sailed north of Russia on its way to Japan.

The specially equipped tanker is due to arrive in early December and will shave 20 days off the regular journey.

The owners say that changing climate conditions and a volatile gas market make the Arctic transit profitable...

324 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:12:10am
325 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:14:23am

re: #324 Sol Berdinowitz

Ob Ivan Kenobi?

Something. Seems ironic that an LNG tanker running on bunker fuel is crossing the arctic no thanks to AGW. It's like a triple whammy. To the rest of our global citizens I say, carry on.

326 Lidane  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:16:31am
327 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:22:09am

re: #326 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Keep the imaginary fear alive! A winning strategy for Republicans. It also keeps the drama up for the M$M.

328 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:22:13am

re: #326 Lidane

[Embedded content]

"We won't agree to tax increases, but we're willing to agree to tax reform that will result in increased tax revenue. Yeah, we ran on that and lost, but you didn't win the House, so that's all we're gonna offer."

329 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:22:42am

Benghazi Fiscal Cliff!

330 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:24:41am

re: #329 Gus

Benghazi Fiscal Cliff!

Isn't that a GOP House Rep from Texas?
// ;P

331 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:26:18am

It's like I've said before, if the GOP can't agree up front to allowing the top rate cuts to expire, then there's nothing to discuss. Jan 1st will come, the cuts will expire, and on the GOP's head it will rest.

332 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:30:11am

re: #331 Targetpractice

Five reasons America won't fall off the 'fiscal cliff' I'm guessing that we won't go over the cliff. Probably some another temporary comprimise to kick the can down the road again while changing as little as possible. I'd love to see a bold grand bargain but that's very unlikely.

333 Political Atheist  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:32:44am

re: #331 Targetpractice

It's time to start referring to the "tax rate increase" as "return to already reduced rates".

BTW just asking in general what are the better economic blogs?

Angry Bear? Truck And Barter? Seeking Alpha?

334 Targetpractice  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:32:54am

re: #332 Killgore Trout

Five reasons America won't fall off the 'fiscal cliff' I'm guessing that we won't go over the cliff. Probably some another temporary comprimise to kick the can down the road again while changing as little as possible. I'd love to see a bold grand bargain but that's very unlikely.

I don't foresee any sort of grand bargain so long as the House remains under the iron-grip of the Tea Party. Boehner doesn't have the stones to rock the boat and risk his speakership.

335 darthstar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:33:38am

Happy Cyber-Monday! Every time you click "Place my order" and old lady pops 800mg of Advil

Amalgamated has estimated that we pickers speed-walk an average of 12 miles a day on cold concrete, and the twinge in my legs blurs into the heavy soreness in my feet that complements the pinch in my hips when I crouch to the floor—the pickers' shelving runs from the floor to seven feet high or so—to retrieve an iPad protective case. iPad anti-glare protector. iPad one-hand grip-holder device. Thing that looks like a landline phone handset that plugs into your iPad so you can pretend that rather than talking via iPad you are talking on a phone. And dildos. Really, a staggering number of dildos. At breaks, some of my coworkers complain that they have to handle so many dildos. But it's one of the few joys of my day. I've started cringing every time my scanner shows a code that means the item I need to pick is on the ground, which, in the course of a 10.5-hour shift—much less the mandatory 12-hour shifts everyone is slated to start working next week—is literally hundreds of times a day. "How has OSHA signed off on this?" I've taken to muttering to myself. "Has OSHA signed off on this?" ("The thing about ergonomics," OSHA says when I call them later to ask, "is that OSHA doesn't have a standard. Best practices. But no laws.") So it's a welcome distraction, really, to imagine all these sex toys being taken out from under a tree and unwrapped. Merry Christmas. I got you this giant black cock you wanted.

336 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:39:01am

re: #332 Killgore Trout

Five reasons America won't fall off the 'fiscal cliff' I'm guessing that we won't go over the cliff. Probably some another temporary comprimise to kick the can down the road again while changing as little as possible. I'd love to see a bold grand bargain but that's very unlikely.

More of the "Obama can not be allowed to have a success under any circumstances" priority running the GOP machine.

Especially since some kind of bold grand bargain would possibly look like responsible governance.
/

337 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:40:55am

Lame.

338 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:42:26am

re: #337 Gus

Regulatory agency sues betting website Intrade:

Lame.

Bet you three to one they won't get away with it

339 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:43:26am

re: #338 Sol Berdinowitz

Bet you three to one they won't get away with it

All I know is that we can all sleep better now.

340 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:49:27am

Oh dear.

341 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:50:48am

You ready?

342 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:50:51am
343 dragonath  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:50:56am

I'm fascinated by Grover Norquist's beard.

Image: grover-norquist-6-22-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

344 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:52:51am

Kill him!

//

345 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:54:36am

Oh crap. He captioned that photo as "Obama style."

346 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 8:55:57am

Humans are such adorable creatures.

//

347 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:00:20am

re: #345 Gus

Oh crap. He captioned that photo as "Obama style."

What a fucking idiot.

348 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:00:22am

re: #342 Gus

[Embedded content]

Even disregarding this business, I think the IDF needs to reconsider that Twitter account. I am fairly certain the idea was to spread accurate information and improve international PR, not get involved in flame wars.

349 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:02:48am

re: #347 Obdicut

What a fucking idiot.

Seriously. At first I thought, "maybe he's playing with combat face paint." Then I read that he captioned it "Obama style." He's doomed.

350 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:05:44am

re: #349 Gus

Seriously. At first I thought, "maybe he's playing with combat face paint." The I read that he captioned it "Obama style." He's doomed.

Whatta moroon!

351 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:06:40am

re: #349 Gus

Seriously. At first I thought, "maybe he's playing with combat face paint." The I read that he captioned it "Obama style." He's doomed.

Really, since all those liberals are just looking for "excuses" to call him "racist", he might as well just indulge them and enjoy himself doing so, right? I believe that is the current Talking Point.

/

352 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:07:34am

Why are so many spokespeople so fucking bad at being spokespeople?

353 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:09:48am

re: #350 Vicious Babushka

Whatta moroon!

Thank goodness no one will use this to make broad generalizations about Israelis.

//

354 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:10:56am

re: #353 Gus

Thank goodness no one will use this to make broad generalizations about Israelis.

//

Oh, nobody at LGF would ever do that!

//Wait, what?

355 dragonath  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:14:23am

It's a shame one of of the commenters on the Mother Jones link has an exclusively anti-Palestinian twitter account. I guess these guys comment on whatever crosses their feed.

356 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:15:51am

re: #354 Vicious Babushka

Oh, nobody at LGF would ever do that!

//Wait, what?

Destro page this yet? //

357 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:20:50am

re: #348 bratwurst

Even disregarding this business, I think the IDF needs to reconsider that Twitter account. I am fairly certain the idea was to spread accurate information and improve international PR, not get involved in flame wars.

They might sack him for PR purposes to avoid controversy with the US. However, he probably didn't intend anything racist with that pic. My understanding (others can answer this more authoritatively) is that Israeli attitudes towards black is less culturally sensitive because there are so few blacks in Israel. Many of the attitudes aren't necessarily intended to be racist just less sensitive to American eyes. It's important to understand that slavery, Jim crow and the civil rights movement were uniquely American experiences.
You can still find lots of 1920's style stereotypical black figurines in Dutch shops. I don't think they see it as racist, it just has some weird retro appeal to them that I've never really understood. You can still get Darky Toothpaste in Asia. They just don;t have the same cultural sensibilities we do.

358 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:21:57am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

They might sack him for PR purposes to avoid controversy with the US. However, he probably didn't intend anything racist with that pic. My understanding (others can answer this more authoritatively) is that Israeli attitudes towards black is less culturally sensitive because there are so few blacks in Israel. Many of the attitudes aren't necessarily intended to be racist just less sensitive to American eyes. It's important to understand that slavery, Jim crow and the civil rights movement were uniquely American experiences.
You can still find lots of 1920's style stereotypical black figurines in Dutch shops. I don't think they see it as racist, it just has some weird retro appeal to them that I've never really understood. You can still get Darky Toothpaste in Asia. They just don;t have the same cultural sensibilities we do.

That is just as totally racist in Israel as it is in the U.S. Don't make excuses, we are not some colonial backwater.

359 Flounder  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:22:04am

Hurricane Sandy inflicted $19 billion worth of damage on New York City -- with less than half covered by expected reimbursements, Mayor Bloomberg estimated today.

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

360 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:23:23am

re: #358 Vicious Babushka

Ok, I'll defer to your judgement.

361 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:23:38am

You can read the comments here, here, and here.

362 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:23:52am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

It's important to understand that slavery, Jim crow and the civil rights movement were uniquely American experiences.

I KNOW you are smarter than this. I'll never understand why you feel the need to pretend otherwise.

363 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:24:19am

re: #361 Gus

You can read the comments here, here, and here.

He is so sacked.

364 Lidane  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:27:26am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

It's important to understand that slavery, Jim crow and the civil rights movement were uniquely American experiences.

You can't possibly be serious with that bullshit. Come on.

365 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:30:00am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

They might sack him for PR purposes to avoid controversy with the US. However, he probably didn't intend anything racist with that pic. My understanding (others can answer this more authoritatively) is that Israeli attitudes towards black is less culturally sensitive because there are so few blacks in Israel. Many of the attitudes aren't necessarily intended to be racist just less sensitive to American eyes. It's important to understand that slavery, Jim crow and the civil rights movement were uniquely American experiences.
You can still find lots of 1920's style stereotypical black figurines in Dutch shops. I don't think they see it as racist, it just has some weird retro appeal to them that I've never really understood. You can still get Darky Toothpaste in Asia. They just don;t have the same cultural sensibilities we do.

KT. There's a big difference between a Dutch shop owner and a spokesperson for the IDF. The IDF spokesperson needs to comport him/herself within international standards which includes US sensitivities. He's not selling toothpaste.

366 dragonath  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:30:27am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

How a Tel Aviv anti-migrant protest spiraled out of control

A demonstration of hatred took place on the stage. One after another, residents took the stage to tell horror stories of violence perpetrated by the infiltrators. Some called for extreme action and even violence. “Bibi, I’m taking the law into my own hands,” warned one of the residents. Protest organizers, among them a city councilman, Shlomo Maslawi, attempted to tone it down and calm the crowd. We must not turn to violence, they said.

The Knesset members were not interested. Believe it or not, they fanned the flames. “The Sudanese are a cancer in our body,” said Miri Regev, (Likud). “All the left-wingers that filed petitions in the Supreme court should be embarrassed – they stopped the expulsion,” she added.

This was earlier this year. It's not only an American thing. In this context, you can't really say the guy was just being cute.

367 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:31:33am

re: #365 Gus

KT. There's a big difference between a Dutch shop owner and a spokesperson for the IDF. The IDF spokesperson needs to comport him/herself within international standards which includes US sensitivities. He's not selling toothpaste.

Which is why they'll probably sack him. Is he a rabid racist? I don;t know. Maybe, Maybe not.

368 Destro  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:32:14am

What comment can I add other than what almost 400 others have? I can only say this is an attempt of the current demographic/ideological power base of the GOP trying to hold on to power because the only way the GOP can continue onwards as a national non regional party and not lose upcoming national elections is to shed its current demographic base.

And there is a lot of national security Military Industrial Complex types whose fortunes are linked to exploiting the old white Archie Bunker base via wedge issues.

The GOP has 2 power structures that wedge issue the social conservatives and Archie Bunker blue collar racist old white man vote and those are the big business types like the Koch brothers and then there are the national security "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, (enemy dujour)" power structure that is exemplified by the Sen McCain blood lust for overseas military adventures.

If the GOP moves away from the Archie Bunker militant protestant "onwards Christian soldiers" types then the "protect big business and the military industrial complex" agendas lose out.

369 Destro  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:33:50am

re: #367 Killgore Trout

Which is why they'll probably sack him. Is he a rabid racist? I don;t know. Maybe, Maybe not.

He maybe a racist maybe not, but he is clearly advocating doubling down on racism or race identity or 'dog whistle politics' for the GOP as a tactic - whether her believes in it or not. He is willing to use racism as a cynical political tool to muster a base for the GOP.

370 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:34:54am

re: #325 Gus

Something. Seems ironic that an LNG tanker running on bunker fuel is crossing the arctic no thanks to AGW. It's like a triple whammy. To the rest of our global citizens I say, carry on.

Russia is the one large nation that will largely gain from AGW.

371 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:35:15am

re: #367 Killgore Trout

Which is why they'll probably sack him. Is he a rabid racist? I don;t know. Maybe, Maybe not.

Is "rabid racist" a sort a fake dividing line among racists like there being "legitimate rape" as a new type of sexual violation?
///

372 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:35:31am

re: #367 Killgore Trout

Which is why they'll probably sack him. Is he a rabid racist? I don;t know. Maybe, Maybe not.

I don't know either but in any case the damage has already been done.

373 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:36:57am

re: #349 Gus

Seriously. At first I thought, "maybe he's playing with combat face paint." Then I read that he captioned it "Obama style." He's doomed.

Another case of "Career Suicide by Social Media".

374 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:38:33am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Slavery and associated issues are not solely a United States cultural and historical thing.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

375 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:39:32am
376 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:40:24am

re: #369 Destro

He maybe a racist maybe not, but he is clearly advocating doubling down on racism or race identity or 'dog whistle politics' for the GOP as a tactic - whether her believes in it or not. He is willing to use racism as a cynical political tool to muster a base for the GOP.

The guy who posed in 'blackface' that killgore was talking about is Israeli, Destro. He is not associated with Jonah Goldberg, the writer of the article which is the overall topic of this thread.

377 dragonath  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:41:36am

ISRAEL!

Sloooooowly I turn

...step by step...

378 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:43:19am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

They might sack him for PR purposes to avoid controversy with the US. However, he probably didn't intend anything racist with that pic. My understanding (others can answer this more authoritatively) is that Israeli attitudes towards black is less culturally sensitive because there are so few blacks in Israel. Many of the attitudes aren't necessarily intended to be racist just less sensitive to American eyes. It's important to understand that slavery, Jim crow and the civil rights movement were uniquely American experiences. You can still find lots of 1920's style stereotypical black figurines in Dutch shops. I don't think they see it as racist, it just has some weird retro appeal to them that I've never really understood. You can still get Darky Toothpaste in Asia. They just don;t have the same cultural sensibilities we do.

Did you know that the chief destination for African slaves was actually Brazil? Black people were enslaved in nations throughout the Americas. You should know better than to type a sentence like the one I bolded.

379 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:47:06am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

"It's important to understand that slavery, Jim crow and the civil rights movement were uniquely American experiences."

That's a shockingly ignorant statement.

380 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:47:17am

re: #374 Feline Fearless Leader

Slavery and associated issues are not solely a United States cultural and historical thing.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

But minstrel shows and the associated blackface are uniquely American. My point is that a 20 something Israeli might not fully understand the implications of a 100 year old American art form.

381 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:48:01am

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

Did you know that the chief destination for African slaves was actually Brazil? Black people were enslaved in nations throughout the Americas. You should know better than to type a sentence like the one I bolded.

How about posting a photo of an American soldier with a big fake nose and a yarmulke and the caption "Nethanjahu style"?

We could then post a long comment about how American sensitivities differ on such matters, and how Mel Brooks gets away with it all the time, etc...

Cut it out. I am never in a hurry to use the word "racist", but this IDF yahoo has certainly fulfilled the criteria.

Fucking racist.

382 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:49:05am

Omg

383 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:49:27am

re: #382 Stanghazi

Omg

I know right.

384 dragonath  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:50:21am

re: #380 Killgore Trout

But minstrel shows and the associated blackface are uniquely American. My point is that a 20 something Israeli might not fully understand the implications of a 100 year old American art form.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

386 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:51:25am

re: #380 Killgore Trout

But minstrel shows and the associated blackface are uniquely American. My point is that a 20 something Israeli might not fully understand the implications of a 100 year old American art form.

Don't make excuses for an asshole.

387 Stanghazi  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:52:00am

American art.form = Obama Style

Disgusting twist

388 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:52:58am

re: #380 Killgore Trout

But minstrel shows and the associated blackface are uniquely American. My point is that a 20 something Israeli might not fully understand the implications of a 100 year old American art form.

There's no excuse for this.

389 Destro  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:53:33am

re: #385 Varek Raith

Fox News Op-Ed: Men Are Less Interested In Marriage Because ‘Women Aren’t Women Anymore’
Derp.

I have seen a lot of this right wing meme about men being neutered by women's rights. Rush Limbough, former Rep Allen in Florida, a right wing newspaper owner who won't review movies that portray men other than cave men, etc.

390 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:54:28am

re: #384 dragonath

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

That ran until '78. Like I said, that sort of thing was taboo in America long before other countries caught on that it's not racially sensitive.
Even as recently as a few years ago
Connick Red Over Black Face

391 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:56:55am

re: #390 Killgore Trout

That ran until '78. Like I said, that sort of thing was taboo in America long before other countries caught on that it's not racially sensitive.
Even as recently as a few years ago
Connick Red Over Black Face

[Embedded content]

Even if you wanted to go there? Apples and oranges. The IDF spokesman is not Tom Hanks.

392 Destro  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:57:01am

re: #376 Dark_Falcon

I was talking about Jonah Goldberg "Would Like the GOP to “Get More Racist”
Goldberg’s recipe for right wing victory" talk. Must have read past the blackface stuff.

393 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:57:19am

There is no clear-cut legal definition of "racism", which allows people to both apply and deny the term whenever something tastless and stupid happens, like posing in blackface with the comment "Obama style".

Yes, you can rationalze, conceptualize, distance yourself while defending this asshole all you want, but this is pretty clear-cut.

A racist asshole who deserves to be called out for it as such.

394 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 9:59:51am

re: #392 Destro

I was talking about Jonah Goldberg "Would Like the GOP to “Get More Racist”
Goldberg’s recipe for right wing victory" talk. Must have read past the blackface stuff.

I thought that might have happened. But do please Goldberg's article, since he isn't actually calling for racism. The title of the article is, as I've said above, aimed at weaponized charges of racism, not support of racism.

395 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:00:33am

re: #393 Sol Berdinowitz

There is no clear-cut legal definition of "racism", which allows people to both apply and deny the term whenever something tastless and stupid happens, like posing in blackface with the comment "Obama style".

Yes, you can rationalze, conceptualize, distance yourself while defending this asshole all you want, but this is pretty clear-cut.

A racist asshole who deserves to be called out for it as such.

I agree that he should be fired. What he did was insensitive and stupid.

396 Lidane  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:00:45am

re: #380 Killgore Trout

But minstrel shows and the associated blackface are uniquely American. My point is that a 20 something Israeli might not fully understand the implications of a 100 year old American art form.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that blackface is uniquely American?

WOW. That's taking your usual trolling to some impressive new heights.

397 HappyWarrior  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:02:50am
398 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:04:40am

re: #385 Varek Raith

Fox News Op-Ed: Men Are Less Interested In Marriage Because ‘Women Aren’t Women Anymore’
Derp.

Is that a wolf whistle rather than a dog whistle about being upset with women not being meek and submissive enough anymore?

399 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:05:09am

re: #390 Killgore Trout

That ran until '78. Like I said, that sort of thing was taboo in America long before other countries caught on that it's not racially sensitive.
Even as recently as a few years ago
Connick Red Over Black Face

[Embedded content]

I'll upding that, but please do understand that the vid makes clear that "blackface" has been done in other nations. It fell out of favor here sooner because the US has more black people than Australia, but its still bad there too. It's bad anywhere its done, as those whom it mocks justifiably find it hurtful and demeaning. Mocking the Jackson Five is one thing, but to mock the Jackson family for being black is ugly and entirely wrong.

400 Lidane  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:05:53am

re: #385 Varek Raith

Fox News Op-Ed: Men Are Less Interested In Marriage Because ‘Women Aren’t Women Anymore’
Derp.

Shocka! The author is Phyllis Schlafly's niece. Stupid apparently runs in the family.

401 dragonath  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:06:04am

re: #390 Killgore Trout

You underestimate the cultural factors. It wasn't just some guys dancing around in blackface unironically. Maliciously or not, it developed from a colonial mindset.

Australia had horrid racism well into the 60s, they shouldn't really get off easy either.

402 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:07:11am

re: #398 Feline Fearless Leader

Is that a wolf whistle rather than a dog whistle about being upset with women not being meek and submissive enough anymore?

No, a wolf whistle is crude, but it is a statement that one finds a lady attractive. That article is the equivalent of some slob calling a woman a "dyke" because she's not interested in him.

403 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:08:12am

re: #399 Dark_Falcon

I'll upding that, but please do understand that the vid makes clear that "blackface" has been done in other nations. It fell out of favor here sooner because the US has more black people than Australia, but its still bad there too. It's bad anywhere its done, as those whom it mocks justifiably find it hurtful and demeaning. Mocking the Jackson Five is one thing, but to mock the Jackson family for being black is ugly and entirely wrong.

Plus the Australians had other targets.

(from a satirical sketch by Englishmen, but it follows the general drift)
2.No member of the faculty is to maltreat the "Abos" in any way whatsoever—if there's anyone watching.

404 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:08:38am

re: #402 Dark_Falcon

No, a wolf whistle is crude, but it is statement that one finds a lady attractive. That article is the equivalent of of some slob calling a woman a "dyke" because she's not interested in him.

It is also about returning to some mythical America that never existed in which men were men, etc...

405 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:09:51am

re: #401 dragonath

Australia had horrid racism well into the 60s, they shouldn't really get off easy either.

I'm pretty sure their racism problem still continues today. Aussies are a fun bunch of folks but when it comes to the aboriginals...yeesh!

406 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:12:39am

re: #405 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty sure their racism problem still continues today. Aussies are a fun bunch of folks but when it comes to the aboriginals...yeesh!

Do Australian racists use a dog digeridoo?

407 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:13:21am

re: #404 Sol Berdinowitz

It is also about returning to some mythical America that never existed in which men were men, etc...

We're men, we're men in tights.
We roam around the forest looking for fights.
We're men, we're men in tights.
We rob from the rich and give to the poor, that's right!
We may look like sissies, but watch what you say or else we'll put out your lights!
We're men, we're men in tights,
Always on guard defending the people's rights.

We're men, MANLY men, we're men in tights. Yeah!
We roam around the forest looking for fights.
We're men, we're men in tights.
We rob from the rich and give to the poor, that's right!
We may look like pansies, but don't get us wrong or else we'll put out your lights.
We're men, we're men in tights (TIGHT tights),
Always on guard defending the people's rights.
When you're in a fix just call for the men in tights!
We're butch.

408 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:16:00am

re: #407 Varek Raith

Later-classic Mel Brooks. Hysterically funny.

409 dragonath  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:16:47am

HEY ABBOT!

410 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:17:08am

re: #405 Killgore Trout

It's not just the aboriginals. It's also the Maori, the natives of Asia, the natives of Africa, and all the other non white non Christian tribes of the South China sea.

411 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:22:09am

re: #409 dragonath

HEY ABBOT!

412 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:23:57am
413 Kragar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:28:17am

Sire, the people are revolting.

414 Kragar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:36:08am

Military expert booted after accusing Fox News of ‘operating as wing of the Republican Party’

“I think that Benghazi was generally hyped by this network especially,” Ricks explained. “And now that the [2012 presidential] campaign is over, I think [McCain] is backing off a little bit. They’re not going to stop Susan Rice from being secretary of state.”

At that point, Scott shifted the interview’s focus from McCain to defending his employer, asking Ricks, “How do you call that hype” when four Americans died in the Benghazi attacks?

“How many security contractors died in Iraq, do you know?” Ricks wondered.

“I don’t,” Scott admitted, seemingly at a loss for words.

“No, nobody does because nobody cared,” Ricks pointed out. “Several hundred died but there was never an official count done of security contractors dead in Iraq. So when I see this focus on what was essentially a small fire fight, I think — number one — I’ve covered a lot of fire fights, it’s impossible find out what happened in them sometimes.”

“And second, I think the emphasis on Benghazi has been extremely political, partly because Fox was operating as wing of the Republican Party,” the author added.

“Alright, Tom Ricks, thanks for joining us today,” Scott said, ending the interview less than two minutes after it began.

416 Gus  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:39:07am
417 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:39:31am

re: #377 dragonath

ISRAEL!

Sloooooowly I turn

...step by step...

Um, run!

418 Kragar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:39:45am

re: #415 Varek Raith

BAM!

"MARINES, WE ARE LEAVING!"

419 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:39:49am

re: #414 Kragar

Military expert booted after accusing Fox News of ‘operating as wing of the Republican Party’

See, the truth really will set you free.

Free to pursue alternative employment opportunities.

420 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:40:25am
421 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:41:18am

re: #420 b_sharp

The article made me cry.

MANLY!

422 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:41:29am

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

I thought that might have happened. But do please Goldberg's article, since he isn't actually calling for racism. The title of the article is, as I've said above, aimed at weaponized charges of racism, not support of racism.

He's whining about reverse racism is he not?

423 Kragar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:41:35am

Ricks On Fox Interview: ‘They Asked My Opinion, And I Gave It’

“I thought I was being honest,” Ricks told the Times' Brian Stelter via email. “They asked my opinion, and I gave it.”

Ricks said he believes that the interview ended abruptly, cut short by the network after he offered unexpected criticism of Fox.

“I think the segment was about half as long as planned," Ricks said.

424 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:43:34am

re: #423 Kragar

Ricks On Fox Interview: ‘They Asked My Opinion, And I Gave It’

Two ways of dealing with people who call netwooks out on bigotry/racism/stilted coverage:

shout them down with counter-charges

end the interview

425 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:44:29am

Please see #430.

426 Lidane  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:45:43am

re: #425 Dark_Falcon

No, not so. A weaponized accusation of racism isn't the same as being racism yourself. It is, after all, possible to be non-racist and still an asshole.

So basically, his winning strategy for the GOP is to become even bigger assholes?

That should go over well.

427 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:46:46am

re: #424 Sol Berdinowitz

Two ways of dealing with people who call networks out on bigotry/racism/stilted coverage:

shout them down with counter-charges

end the interview

Shout them down with counter charges = DARVO

End the interview = Pleading the 5th

The second is better than the first, but still not good.

428 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:47:12am

the term "racism" gets overused, both in branding questionable speech and in denying any association with it. I am hesitant to use it, and do try to sort out what the intent and the context of a situation is before applying it.

Because I do not want to give real racist assholes any sort of talking point arguments.

429 Kragar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:47:48am

Libyan Militia Plans To Execute 12 Gay Men

An extremist militia in Libya has captured twelve men and promised to mutilate and execute them for being gay. The group posted pictures of them on Facebook, describing them as the “third sex,” a regional derogatory term comparable to “queers.” Human rights Watch Libya identified the group as Al-Nawasi militia, know for championing Salafist jihad. Al-Nawasi has claimed to have become a legal part of the Libyan Ministry of Interior, pledging to remove “corruption” and “vice,” such as alcohol and homosexuality.

Bryan Fischer approves.

430 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:49:13am

re: #426 Lidane

So basically, his winning strategy for the GOP is to become even bigger assholes?

That should go over well.

Once again, no. Goldberg was trying to say that if Republicans focus more on policies to help minority voters and outreach to same, they will still face the same accusations of racism as they do now. He's saying that 'racism' is too-often charged in bad faith.

431 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:49:40am

re: #428 Sol Berdinowitz

the term "racism" gets overused, both in branding questionable speech and in denying any association with it. I am hesitant to use it, and do try to sort out what the intent and the context of a situation is before applying it.

Because I do not want to give real racist assholes any sort of talking point arguments.

I think that's a problem. The overuse of the accusation provides cover for some serious racists. The accusation of racism loses a lot of it's power when thrown around too lightly.

432 jaunte  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:50:52am

re: #430 Dark_Falcon

if Republicans focus more on policies to help minority voters and outreach to same

It would help him to test his assertion by giving some examples, or proposing some policies. As the piece stands now, it's just a complaint.

433 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:51:31am

re: #431 Killgore Trout

I think that's a problem. The overuse of the accusation provides cover for some serious racists. The accusation of racism loses a lot of it's power when thrown around too lightly.

That is a problem, and it is also a difficult call on certain dogwhistle statements that are pitched to appeal to a racist target audience but phrased to allow a level of deniability.

It has developed into a High Art over the past four years or so...

434 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:52:13am

re: #431 Killgore Trout

I think that's a problem. The overuse of the accusation provides cover for some serious racists. The accusation of racism loses a lot of it's power when thrown around too lightly.

Or, the more obvious solution: there are greater and less forms of racism. This is a lesser form. That doesn't mean it's not still racism.

Someone casually being racist out of ignorance is still being racist; obviously portraying other races as a caricature is a classical example of ignorant racism. It's not as bad as someone asserting black people are all moochers who are looking for handouts and free stuff, but it's still racism.

Nuance is a thing.

435 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:53:17am

Some impressive commercial composting:

This is the one in my area, and why I quit composting at home:

436 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:54:58am

re: #434 Obdicut

Or, the more obvious solution: there are greater and less forms of racism. This is a lesser form. That doesn't mean it's not still racism.

Someone casually being racist out of ignorance is still being racist; obviously portraying other races as a caricature is a classical example of ignorant racism. It's not as bad as someone asserting black people are all moochers who are looking for handouts and free stuff, but it's still racism.

Nuance is a thing.

A very common use of racism is to display one person of a particular race/nationality/religion/ethnicity and then claim "They're all like that!" Or to quote a line or an article from some publication that caters to said group and claim "That's what they all think!"

437 darthstar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:55:33am

How to rid yourself of those pesky invites by Fox News to be a guest on their shows:

RICKS: I think that Benghazi generally was hyped, by this network especially, and that now that the campaign is over, I think he's backing off a little bit. They're not going to stop Susan Rice from being secretary of state.

SCOTT: When you have four people dead, including the first dead U.N. ambassador -- U.S. ambassador in more than 30 years, how do you call that hype?

RICKS: How many security contractors died in Iraq, do you know?

SCOTT: I don't.

RICKS: No. Nobody does, because nobody cared. We know that several hundred died, but there was never an official count done of security contractors dead in Iraq. So when I see this focus on what was essentially a small firefight, I think, number one, I've covered a lot of firefights. It's impossible to figure out what happens in them sometimes. And second, I think that the emphasis on Benghazi has been extremely political, partly because Fox was operating as a wing of Republican Party.

SCOTT: All right. Tom Ricks, thanks very much for joining us today.

RICKS: You're welcome.

438 Kragar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:56:37am

No students move following CU dorm segregation for gun owners

Since the University of Colorado's Boulder and Colorado Springs campuses began segregating dorms for students with valid concealed-carry permits this year, not a single student has asked to live where guns are allowed.

On Aug. 16, CU announced that both campuses would establish a residential area for students over age 21 with a permit to hold a concealed handgun. In all other dormitories, guns are banned.

"So far, no one has moved," CU spokesman Ken McConnellogue said.

439 Randall Gross  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:57:39am

I look at Jonah's article as just another "they're going to call us racist anyway, so we can just give up trying" plaint. The problem with that is there are active panderers and leaders in the party who are racist and nobody seems to care much. It's when they opened that backdoor to the Birchers and CoCC sorts that they lost the ability to make this plaint. As long as many of their key cheerleaders hang with the VDARE crowd this doesn't work for me.

440 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:57:39am

re: #436 Vicious Babushka

A very common use of racism is to display one person of a particular race/nationality/religion/ethnicity and then claim "They're all like that!" Or to quote a line or an article from some publication that caters to said group and claim "That's what they all think!"

Corollary: to quote from some article in a publication that caters to said group, which is critical of said group, while loudly proclaiming "This proves I can't be bigoted against said group, because THEIR OWN MEDIA SOURCE said it!"

441 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 10:59:21am

re: #440 Vicious Babushka

Also known as "Pulling the Cosby".

442 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:01:29am

re: #441 Obdicut

Also known as "Pulling the Cosby".

The most frequent use of this corollary is "But rap stars use N-Word all the time, why is it OK for them to say the N-Word?"

443 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:01:34am

re: #441 Obdicut

Also known as "Pulling the Cosby".

Sounds sexual.
/

444 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:01:52am

re: #434 Obdicut

Or, the more obvious solution: there are greater and less forms of racism. This is a lesser form. That doesn't mean it's not still racism.

Someone casually being racist out of ignorance is still being racist; obviously portraying other races as a caricature is a classical example of ignorant racism. It's not as bad as someone asserting black people are all moochers who are looking for handouts and free stuff, but it's still racism.

Nuance is a thing.

The problem, as is so often the case, is that nuance doesn't come across very well with people who don't know you (or at least the persona you are presenting them) very well.

445 Kragar  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:03:47am

re: #443 Varek Raith

Sounds sexual.
/

It all depends on inflection.

446 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:03:51am

re: #442 Vicious Babushka

The most frequent use of this corollary is "But rap stars use N-Word all the time, why is it OK for them to say the N-Word?"

And this is the other trap. It is not just the words used or the paint on the face, it is the entire message and the context in which it delivered that affect whether something can be deemed "racist".

But that is nuance and nuance is dead...

447 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:06:04am
448 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:06:13am

Goldberg's essay is basically the pathetic 'those who cry racism are the real racists' victimization flip around.

Pretty lame.

449 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:06:22am

re: #447 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

FUCK YEAH!

450 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:10:08am

Point is, none of this sort of "reflection" is going to bring the GOP any farther along on their dismal record on attracting votgers who are not of the white race.

451 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:12:43am

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

No, it isn't. What Goldberg is saying is that if the GOP tailors policies that are designed to work well for minorities, the left will not give Republicans any credit for the shift, for its own political reasons. No matter what actions it takes, large portions of the left will call the Republican party 'racist'. So given that the GOP cannot avoid the charge being throw, Goldberg is say the GOP should not allow itself to be stung by the charge and work to develop effective polices that will benefits blacks and Latinos.

Goldberg's piece isn't racist. His "more racist" line is him decrying weaponized charges of racism.

Really.

How many white nationalists have to write for the National Review before you don't get to use this lame excuse any more?

452 jaunte  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:12:47am

re: #450 Sol Berdinowitz

I think Goldberg is more interested in getting paid for filling up a column than any real world effect it might have.

453 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:15:22am

re: #452 jaunte

I think Goldberg is more interested in getting paid for filling up a column than any real world effect it might have.

Just like the news pundits were more interested in selling us an electoral horserace than analyzing why Romney was consistently trailing in the polls...

454 The Gender Ambiguity of a Flea  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:24:25am

re: #430 Dark_Falcon

Once again, no. Goldberg was trying to say that if Republicans focus more on policies to help minority voters and outreach to same, they will still face the same accusations of racism as they do now. He's saying that 'racism' is too-often charged in bad faith.

So Jonah Goldberg will tell blacks folks when something's really racist. Because apparently they're doing it wrong because they're incompetent and hiding their corruption:

And it helps a feckless left-wing black political class explain away its own failures. Racial slander is like duct tape: There’s no limit to what you can do with it.

Or have been duped by liberals, who are the real racists:

Now, the cynical motivations behind this relentless slander are too numerous to count. Such moral bullying makes white liberals feel better about themselves. It scares moderates and centrists away from the Republican Party, and it no doubt helps dissuade wavering blacks from even thinking about giving the GOP an honest look.

We should totally trust a white guy that wrote Liberal Fascism to be the umpire on racism calls.

455 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:27:02am

re: #454 The Questionable Timing of a Flea

So Jonah Goldberg will tell blacks folks when something's really racist.

And remember, there is no racism on the right, only "racial realism"...

/

456 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:27:12am

Bottom line: racism is totally out of control on the right and in the Republican Party. When Jonah Goldberg makes excuses for it and pretends it's all just trumped up charges, he knows exactly what he's doing. These people exploit and use racism for political power, and it's no accident that the National Review STILL has open racists writing for them.

If you think I'm exaggerating, read the comments at ANY right wing news source these days. Every single thread is absolutely full of overtly racist comments.

Racist hatred has roared back into fashion on the right since the election of Obama, and Jonah Goldberg's transparently thin excuse is just more of the same bullshit.

457 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:33:02am

He doesn't really mean it though. He is just taking advantage of it for political purposes!
/// :p

458 Lidane  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:45:25am

re: #456 Charles Johnson

Racist hatred has roared back into fashion on the right since the election of Obama, and Jonah Goldberg's transparently thin excuse is just more of the same bullshit.

THIS x infinity.

Not only has racist hatred roared back into fashion, but assholes like Goldberg make it acceptable by suggesting that electing a black POTUS = the end of all racism forever and ever amen. Jonah and NRO and the rest of the right wing media know damn well what they're doing.

459 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:47:04am

Stabbed in the face and shoulder, woman fought off her Gazan attacker

An armed intruder broke into a woman’s home early Monday morning in a community in the Eshkol border region and was fought off by a tenacious mother protecting her four children. Later in the day, the mother, Yael — who was only identified by her first name and who was lightly injured in the attack — had her version of the story related to Ynet by her father.

The intruder, a Palestinian man who apparently infiltrated Israel from the southern Gaza Strip, broke into Yael’s home in Sde Avraham at 4 a.m., armed with a crowbar and a knife. Upon entering the master bedroom where Yael and her 2- and 4-year-old children slept, the man reportedly attempted to attack the woman. But Yael confronted her assailant, and during the ensuing life-and-death struggle she was stabbed in the face and shoulder. But she nonetheless succeeded in repelling the attacker, and ushered her children into the house’s safe room.

460 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:48:26am

OT

My newest Twitter follower:

Naturopath, Herbalist, Acupuncturist, Alchemist, Toltec-Nagual, Angel Healing, Bridge to the Hidden Realms.

Pretty much covers all the bases.

461 allegro  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:52:14am

re: #460 researchok

OT

My newest Twitter follower:

Pretty much covers all the bases.

Left off the most important one though: grifter.

462 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:52:34am

re: #460 researchok

OT

My newest Twitter follower:

Naturopath, Herbalist, Acupuncturist, Alchemist, Toltec-Nagual, Angel Healing, Bridge to the Hidden Realms.

Pretty much covers all the bases.

what does he/she know about stucco?

463 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:53:48am

re: #460 researchok

OT

My newest Twitter follower:

Pretty much covers all the bases.

Angel healing? How many angels in need of healing can there possibly be?

464 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:53:57am

re: #462 Sol Berdinowitz

LOLOL

465 b_sharp  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:54:26am

re: #462 Sol Berdinowitz

what does he/she know about stucco?

She'll ask the angels.

466 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:55:13am

re: #462 Sol Berdinowitz

re: #463 b_sharp

You just can't make this stuff up.

467 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:57:46am

re: #463 b_sharp

Angel healing? How many angels in need of healing can there possibly be?

Enough to fit on the head of a pin?

468 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:59:53am

re: #459 Killgore Trout

Stabbed in the face and shoulder, woman fought off her Gazan attacker

How this guy got in is going to be investigated. The good new is his victim fought back and survived and that the IDF shot the scumbag dead.

469 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 11:59:53am

I notice you like to down-ding my comments about racism on the right, DF, but you never seem to have the courage to say why. You can deny it all you like, but the side you're identifying with is just rotten through and through with these hateful prejudices.

470 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:16:40pm

re: #469 Charles Johnson

It's always hard to hear much of the 'tribe' with which we identify is indeed rotten.

To be sure, I'm the first one to condemn broad brush strokes but in the final analysis, the right has allowed itself to become a home for some very not nice people.

Do I believe the majority of people on the right are bigots? No, I do not- but in the end, they are turning a blind eye to poison within.

History teaches turning a blind eye never ends up well.

I'm not idealizing the far left- they can be pretty bigoted as well, but they are marginal and marginalized. No one in the left mainstream makes room for them, at least not in a serious way.

I'm not about to change all my political sensibilities but I will not turn a blind eye to the cancer which has invaded the right.

I will fight to fix what is obviously broken.

471 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:18:01pm

re: #430 Dark_Falcon

Once again, no. Goldberg was trying to say that if Republicans focus more on policies to help minority voters and outreach to same, they will still face the same accusations of racism as they do now. He's saying that 'racism' is too-often charged in bad faith.

Once again, no. Goldberg is saying a racist policy proposal of the GOP is minority outreach. Obviously minorities disagree, because they don't vote for the GOP in very large numbers. That's not because people accuse the GOP of being racist, that's because the GOP is racist. Minority people are aware of where their self-interests lie just as much as majority people are.

Sorry I had to run after responding to you last night. I have ample time for discussion today. Should you be interested...

472 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:19:35pm

re: #470 researchok

I'm not about to change all my political sensibilities but I will not turn a blind eye to the cancer which has invaded the right.

I will fight to rid what is obviously broken.

You could sever your ties with Townhall, the other purveyor of this Goldberg piece.

473 gwangung  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:26:27pm

re: #471 wrenchwench

Minority people are aware of where their self-interests lie just as much as majority people are.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

And I don't know why it's so hard to admit that these self-interests, at times, are not the same as for the majority.

474 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:27:28pm

re: #472 wrenchwench

I just use some of their cartoons, no more.

And they can skewer the right pretty well, too.

475 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:33:13pm

re: #474 researchok

I just use some of their cartoons, no more.

And they can skewer the right pretty well, too.

Some of those cartoons suck. And you provide a link to Townhall with each one.

And I wasn't complaining about them 'skewering the left', so skewering the right 'too' makes no difference to me. I was complaining about them promoting racist bullshit.

You also have some stinky stuff in your blogroll. I can go into detail if you wish.

I know this isn't easy, but it's worth it.

476 Lidane  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:34:13pm

Bitter teabaggers are bitter:

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

477 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:34:19pm

re: #473 gwangung

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

And I don't know why it's so hard to admit that these self-interests, at times, are not the same as for the majority.

I don't know why either, but that second thing really is hard for a lot of people.

478 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:38:40pm

re: #475 wrenchwench

I cite TH (and other sites) because they allow me to republish their cartoons with permission. I certainly haven't knowingly ever published what I believe to be a racist cartoon, unless it was in the context of poking fun at the rights obsession with crazy.

Also, your point re blogroll is fair. The truth is I haven't cleaned up my blogroll in years.

479 wrenchwench  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:42:21pm

re: #478 researchok

I cite TH (and other sites) because they allow me to republish their cartoons with permission. I certainly haven't knowingly ever published what I believe to be a racist cartoon, unless it was in the context of poking fun at the rights obsession with crazy.

Also, your point re blogroll is fair. The truth is I haven't cleaned up my blogroll in years.

I know you have to cite them if you use them, that's why you shouldn't use them (IMHO). I'm not saying I've seen a racist cartoon at your site.

Sorry if I'm being a pain. (Doesn't mean I'll stop though...)

480 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 12:50:20pm

re: #479 wrenchwench

Sorry if I'm being a pain. (Doesn't mean I'll stop though...)

Are you kidding??? I wouldn't have it any other way!

Besides, whatever would we do if we sang kumbaya?
/

Seriously, there are only a couple of people in here whose opinions I really consider and your is one of them. I don't always agree but I do reflect on a lot of your opinions.

I do- and have- credited you for changing my opinions of reproductive rights and women's health. While always a supporter of choice my stance was more neutral. Now, I see the issue for what it really is and that goes way beyond women.

These issues are front line and must be treated as such. That's why I am outraged at the much of the GOP. They treat reproductive rights and women's health very, very cavalierly.

481 CuriousLurker  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 1:02:21pm

re: #479 wrenchwench

I know you have to cite them if you use them, that's why you shouldn't use them (IMHO). I'm not saying I've seen a racist cartoon at your site.

Sorry if I'm being a pain. (Doesn't mean I'll stop though...)

LOL, gotta love ya'! You tend to wield your honesty like a blunt instrument (sorta like someone else I know, heh).

482 researchok  Mon, Nov 26, 2012 2:14:33pm

re: #481 CuriousLurker

I resemble that remark.


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