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Republican Lunatics Vote Against Rights of Disabled People

Heartless bastards do it again
Politics • Views: 20,140

Following up on Rick Santorum’s new job at the conspiracy website World Net Daily, and his absolutely insane fear-mongering column about the UN treaty on the rights of the disabled, heartless Republican bastards in the Senate rejected the treaty today — even with Bob Dole making a special appearance in a wheelchair to support it: Republican Opposition Downs UN Disability Treaty.

WASHINGTON — Led by Republican opposition, the Senate on Tuesday rejected a United Nations treaty on the rights of the disabled that is modeled after the landmark Americans with Disabilities Act.

With 38 Republicans casting “no” votes, the 61-38 vote fell five short of the two-thirds majority needed to ratify a treaty. The vote took place in an unusually solemn atmosphere, with senators sitting at their desks rather than milling around the podium. Former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole, looking frail and in a wheelchair, was in the chamber to support the treaty.

The treaty, already signed by 155 nations and ratified by 126 countries, including Britain, France, Germany, China and Russia, states that nations should strive to assure that the disabled enjoy the same rights and fundamental freedoms as their fellow citizens. Republicans objected to taking up a treaty during the lame-duck session of the Congress and warned that the treaty could pose a threat to U.S. national sovereignty.

“I do not support the cumbersome regulations and potentially overzealous international organizations with anti-American biases that infringe upon American society,” said Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla.

Sen. Inhofe is absolutely wrong. No UN treaty can ever supersede the laws of the United States; the Supreme Court has ruled that the Supremacy Clause of the US Consitution specifically forbids it. This is pure right wing fear-mongering at its most evil, and it’s flat out disgusting.

UPDATE at 12/4/12 10:42:58 am

Also see:
How Unhinged Rhetoric Sank a Disabilities Rights Treaty in the Senate | Right Wing Watch

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187 comments

1 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:40:11am

I hope they all become invalid and ask for help and get a hearty "FUCK YOU!" in response.

2 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:40:16am

Thanks Republicans. Hearty fuck you from this Aspie.

3 darthstar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:40:33am

Fuck the GOP. Sideways. With no grease.

4 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:40:40am

re: #2 HappyWarrior

Thanks Republicans. Hearty fuck you from this Aspie.

HA, that's two for them.

5 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:40:43am

re: #1 Eventual Carrion

I hope they all become invalid and ask for help and get a hearty "FUCK YOU!" in response.

Nah a lecture on personal responsibility would be better.

6 erik_t  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:41:22am

The Fuck You, I've Got Mine worldview has many policy corollaries that aren't initially obvious.

7 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:41:39am
8 Bulworth  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:41:50am
“I do not support the cumbersome regulations and potentially overzealous international organizations with anti-American biases that infringe upon American society,” said Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Okla.

I wonder, do other countries have TV reality shows that showcase whackadoo U.S. politicians like this dimlight?

9 erik_t  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:43:12am

re: #8 Bulworth

I wonder, do other countries have TV reality shows that showcase whackadoo U.S. politicians like this dimlight?

I hope they overdub it like Most Extreme Elimination Challenge.

Grover Norquist and Ron Paul are the crazy men in the weird wizard-robes.

10 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:44:07am

Really in the past, this was the kind of thing that you could count on for bipartisan passage. Not anymore since the Republicans have decided to become the conspiracy nut party that fears every damn thing that has international support because if other countries and the UN supports it, by golly it must mean the UN is trying to take over. Fuck the Republican party in its current incarnation and fuck Rick Santorum especially for using his poor daughter as a tool to prevent this from being passed. She deserves better than that as do all disabled people especially children.

11 jaunte  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:44:35am

re: #3 darthstar

Fuck the GOP. Sideways. With no grease.

On the contrary, I think it's time to stop being polite to these people.

12 JEA62  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:45:33am

I remember a time - a time not so long ago, incidentally - when conservatives used to argue for treaties like this by saying America needed to a moral leader in the world. Evidently we don't need to be so moral any more.

13 erik_t  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:45:58am

re: #10 HappyWarrior

Really in the past, this was the kind of thing that you could count on for bipartisan passage.

Honest question: have there been any sort of massive-passage 93-to-6-style votes in this Congress? Even a single one?

14 gwangung  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:46:56am

re: #12 JEA62

I remember a time - a time not so long ago, incidentally - when conservatives used to argue for treaties like this by saying America needed to a moral leader in the world. Evidently we don't need to be so moral any more.

American exceptionalism at its best.

15 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:47:45am

If the Republicrooks were right about these treaties infringing our sovereignty and the Constitution, Obama could just get his UN cronies to gin up a treaty banning the Republican Party. He could then sign it, get his Dem Senate to ratify it, and start the roundup.
Ask a Republican sometime why this hasn't happened.

16 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:49:53am

Egypt has the Muslim Brotherhood. The USA has the Republican Party.

17 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:50:05am

re: #13 erik_t

Honest question: have there been any sort of massive-passage 93-to-6-style votes in this Congress? Even a single one?

Not including naming buildings after people and congratulating someone or a sports team, I very much doubt it. And they wonder why Congress is less popular as getting kicked in the nads.

18 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:50:44am

re: #15 Shiplord Kirel

Republicrooks

Excuse my demonizing terminology, I meant to demonize them with "Republikooks" in this instance, with the "-crooks" suffix reserved for tax and regulation issues.

19 jaunte  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:50:53am

Betsy Woodruff at NRO thinks the worst thing about the treaty is Americans having to submit a report to the UN:

"And we haven’t even started on how self-abasing it would be for the U.S. to comply with the treaty. Every four years, we would be required to put together an interagency report on our disability-rights record (a project that would cost millions), and also to send a delegation (usually of at least 20 people) to Geneva to appear before a panel of international disability-rights experts."

20 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:51:16am

re: #12 JEA62

I remember a time - a time not so long ago, incidentally - when conservatives used to argue for treaties like this by saying America needed to a moral leader in the world. Evidently we don't need to be so moral any more.

Oh we need to be moral all right, only when we're telling gay people that they can't have families. That's "moral". Helping people with disabilities though. No! We can't do that.

21 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:51:56am

re: #19 jaunte

Betsy Woodruff at NRO thinks the worst thing about the treaty is Americans having to submit a report to the UN:

And that really is the crux of it all: The idea that America might actually *gasp!* have to answer to someone else.

22 jaunte  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:52:15am

re: #21 Targetpractice

Bowing!

23 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:52:34am

re: #19 jaunte

Betsy Woodruff at NRO thinks the worst thing about the treaty is Americans having to submit a report to the UN:

Oh the horror. Let's back out of every treaty and organization that has us accountable to someone other than ourselves. Really, the modern conservative vision of wanting to separate from all things international other than war is not only wrong, it's absurdly and insultingly stupid.

24 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:54:42am

OT, but breaking news:
This is why Army Materiel Command explosives professionals go ballistic when they're told private contractors can do it "better, cheaper".

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

25 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:55:23am

The treaty was negotiated and first signed under former President George W. Bush and signed again by Obama in 2009. At least 153 other countries have signed it.

[Link: thehill.com...]

26 Ian G.  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:55:29am

I love the symbolism here. The reasonable Republican of yesteryear, Bob Dole, given the flip of the bird by the climate change-denialist lunatic James Inhofe, the Republican of today.

27 Mattand  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:57:29am

I sometimes wonder if we are headed for another Civil War. Conservatives and Republicans are just...

I can't even describe it anymore. Dangerously, lethally paranoid? I don't know what to say. These are people who are supposed to be my fellow citizens, yet I'm at the point where I can't trust anything they say or do.

It's not so much clutching their guns and Bibles as it is having a suffocating bear hug on them. These people have a vision of American society that is utterly out-of-touch with modern reality, and I really worry what extremes they're going to go to protect that.

That's why I marvel at some of the conservatives who post here. For the most part, they're obviously literate and intelligent, yet throw their support behind a party that would sink a treaty because "them fur-en-ers from UN is a-using wheelchairs to invade us."

I do not get it.

28 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:57:39am
29 Lidane  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:58:00am
30 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:58:54am

re: #29 Lidane

[Embedded content]

:O

31 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 10:59:09am

re: #27 Mattand

I sometimes wonder if we are headed for another Civil War. Conservatives and Republicans are just...

I can't even describe it anymore. Dangerously, lethally paranoid? I don't know what to say. These are people who are supposed to be my fellow citizens, yet I'm at the point where I can't trust anything they say or do.

It's not so much clutching their guns and Bibles as it is having a suffocating bear hug on them. These people have a vision of American society that is utterly out-of-touch with modern reality, and I really worry what extremes they're going to go to protect that.

That's why I marvel at some of the conservatives who post here. For the most part, they're obviously literate and intelligent, yet throw their support behind a party that would sink a treat because "them fur-en-ers from UN is a-using wheelchairs to invade us."

I do not get it.

Yes, this.

32 darthstar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:00:13am
33 jaunte  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:00:17am

re: #29 Lidane

One of the lesser-known but extremely active opponents of the bill was homeschooling activist Michael Farris.

During an interview with Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, he claimed that the treaty will prompt the United Nations to ‘get control’ of children with glasses or ADHD and remove them from their families.

They're so far out of their minds they need a passport stamp.

34 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:01:37am

Words can't express how much this pisses me off guys. It's already a tough enough to live in this world with Asperger's. It's even tougher when you have organizations like the Republican party who want to make it that much more difficult by opposing a treaty that would try to make life a bit better for those of us with disabilities. I mean really? This is a treaty that was signed by G.W Bush, supported by Bob Dole, and George H.W Bush's Attorney General, Dick Thornbaugh. All three men could be described as conservatives but I guess their knowledge of this treaty and its realities isn't good enough for the majority of the GOP Senate caucus who are batshit insane.

35 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:02:34am

I know lots of rank and file Republicans. These maroons have no idea what goes in other countries, where they are, how they relate to each other, how many there are, or how we are perceived there. Yet they believe we are far superior to all of these foreign weirdos, and their socialist ideas. They used to think our cars were superior, but the evidence of their own eyes has finally penetrated their thick skulls after 30 years of experience with Toyota and the like. The exceptions are some fringe Paulists who have adopted a paradoxically far left view of US foreign policy as a never-ending series of crimes and errors that we should end at once for the sake of our souls, especially when it involves us with nefarious characters like the Israelis. Like their jingoistic brethren though, the Paulist kooks are entirely innocent of real insight or experience overseas.

36 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:03:22am

re: #33 jaunte

They're so far out of their minds they need a passport stamp.

I know Farris quite well by reputation. His homeschool college is in the next town over from here and he ran for Lt Governor here in Virginia, and John Warner famously opposed him which is why he was quite disliked by many a Virginia wingnut. That and him opposing Ollie North for Senate. Need more Republicans like John Warner and less like Mike Farris.

37 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:04:30am

re: #24 Decatur Deb

OT, but breaking news:
This is why Army Materiel Command explosives professionals go ballistic when they're told private contractors can do it "better, cheaper".

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I see what you did there.

38 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:05:04am

re: #24 Decatur Deb

OT, but breaking news:
This is why Army Materiel Command explosives professionals go ballistic when they're told private contractors can do it "better, cheaper".

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Gee, what could go wrong?
///

39 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:06:21am

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Words can't express how much this pisses me off guys. It's already a tough enough to live in this world with Asperger's. It's even tougher when you have organizations like the Republican party who want to make it that much more difficult by opposing a treaty that would try to make life a bit better for those of us with disabilities. I mean really? This is a treaty that was signed by G.W Bush, supported by Bob Dole, and George H.W Bush's Attorney General, Dick Thornbaugh. All three men could be described as conservatives but I guess their knowledge of this treaty and its realities isn't good enough for the majority of the GOP Senate caucus who are batshit insane.

An American delegation under President George W. Bush negotiated and approved the Convention in 2006. The United States signed the treaty in 2009 and submitted it to the U.S. Senate this May for its advice and consent for ratification. The treaty requires no changes to U.S. laws or new appropriations.

[Link: www.mccain.senate.gov...]

40 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:07:06am

re: #35 Shiplord Kirel

I know lots of rank and file Republicans. These maroons have no idea what goes in other countries, where they are, how they relate to each other, how many there are, or how we are perceived there. Yet they believe we are far superior to all of these foreign weirdos, and their socialist ideas. They used to think our cars were superior, but the evidence of their own eyes has finally penetrated their thick skulls after 30 years of experience with Toyota and the like. The exceptions are some fringe Paulists who have adopted a paradoxically far left view of US foreign policy as a never-ending series of crimes and errors that we should end at once for the sake of our souls, especially when it involves us with nefarious characters like the Israelis. Like their jingoistic brethren though, the Paulist kooks are entirely innocent of real insight or experience overseas.

That's equally far right. They meet around the back of the big circle.

41 Kragar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:07:10am

I'm completely disgusted by this ignorance based fear mongering.

42 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:07:17am

re: #37 wrenchwench

I see what you did there.

Did some work at AMC Ballistics Research Laboratory. They had a department called "Lethality Division". Varek would be so jealous.

43 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:07:18am

Sigh. I've reached the point where what the GOP does no longer surprises or shocks me. They've just done too many insane and cruel things too often.

Sigh. I wish that wasn't so. But there it is.

44 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:07:24am

re: #39 Gus

An American delegation under President George W. Bush negotiated and approved the Convention in 2006. The United States signed the treaty in 2009 and submitted it to the U.S. Senate this May for its advice and consent for ratification. The treaty requires no changes to U.S. laws or new appropriations.

[Link: www.mccain.senate.gov...]

Yeah McCain supports it too. And McCain's pretty much gone off his rocker since Obama became president.

45 simoom  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:09:10am

It was bad enough when presidential candidate Newt Gingrich was name dropping "Agenda 21" left-and-right to signal to the Bircher-freaks and the Alex Jones/Glenn Beck-nuts, but it's maddening that the conspiracy theorists have become a powerful enough faction in the GOP base that they've cowed Republican Senators into scuttling a critical human rights treaty. The lunatics truly are in charge of the asylum.

46 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:10:38am

re: #24 Decatur Deb

OT, but breaking news:
This is why Army Materiel Command explosives professionals go ballistic when they're told private contractors can do it "better, cheaper".

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

You just can't make this stuff up. I see that the contract mob who put the 3000 tons of M6 outdoors goes by the name of "Explo Systems."
The whole parish (La.) could go up in a mushroom cloud if lightning hits the wrong barrel of this junk.

47 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:11:28am

re: #46 Shiplord Kirel

You just can't make this stuff up. I see that the contract mob who put the 3000 tons of M6 outdoors goes by the name of "Explo Systems."
The whole parish (La.) could go up in a mushroom cloud if lightning hits the wrong barrel of this junk.

3000 TONS?

48 Ian G.  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:11:36am

re: #27 Mattand

I do feel like the tragic flaw of the Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution is that they assumed we would all act in rational self-interest when governing ourselves. Certainly, there's nothing rational about the GOP right now, and you can see how damaging that has been to good governance at all levels.

49 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:12:05am

re: #46 Shiplord Kirel

You just can't make this stuff up. I see that the contract mob who put the 3000 tons of M6 outdoors goes by the name of "Explo Systems."
The whole parish (La.) could go up in a mushroom cloud if lightning hits the wrong barrel of this junk.

"We don' need no steenking quantity-distance."

50 jaunte  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:12:15am

re: #47 Gus

3000 TONS?

"Roughly"

51 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:12:57am

re: #47 Gus

3000 TONS?

Yep

Weather could complicate the transfer of roughly 6 million pounds of explosives that were haphazardly stored at an industrial site in northwestern Louisiana and led to the evacuation of a small town, a state police spokeswoman said Monday.

If lightning is spotted within five miles of the site, authorities will suspend efforts that began on Saturday to move the artillery propellant, Lt. Julie Lewis said.

Light rain fell at midday in the vicinity of the site near the town of Doyline. No lightning was expected Monday, but thunderstorms were forecast for Tuesday.

52 Kragar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:13:11am

Nugent: Budget deal should suspend welfare recipients’ voting rights

Conservative rocker Ted Nugent is urging the Republican Party to “stop the insanity” and insist that voting rights be suspended for welfare recipients as a part of a larger budget deal.

Draft dodger says what?

53 Ian G.  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:13:54am

re: #46 Shiplord Kirel

You just can't make this stuff up. I see that the contract mob who put the 3000 tons of M6 outdoors goes by the name of "Explo Systems."
The whole parish (La.) could go up in a mushroom cloud if lightning hits the wrong barrel of this junk.

"Nobody can tell you what 6 million pounds of explosives would do if it went up," Edmondson said in a telephone interview. "And I don't want to find out."

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

54 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:14:03am

I seriously wonder what it will take for the GOP to realize they've gone off the deep end. Maybe they need a 1984 style landslide but the problem to me is even though they're a minority, they're not a small enough minority to be completely repudiated at the polls so the GOP politicians will keep on pandering to them. Hell after Santorum got second place in this year's primaries, I wouldn't be shocked if he's the nominee in 2016 and gets at least 45% of the vote. He'd lose in the general election I'm reasonably certain but he'd do well enough to convince the wingnuts that their ideology isn't a problem.It's frustrating because modern conservatism is frankly not conservative at all but reactionary.

55 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:14:43am

re: #52 Kragar

Nugent: Budget deal should suspend welfare recipients’ voting rights

Draft dodger says what?

Isn't he old enough these days to be drawing SS and Medicare?

56 The Mountain That Blogs  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:15:18am

re: #55 Targetpractice

Nope. He's 63.

57 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:15:27am

re: #52 Kragar

Nugent: Budget deal should suspend welfare recipients’ voting rights

Draft dodger says what?

Maybe we should require a poll tax too! // Fuck you Nugent, you fuckhead, if you want a country where we actually eliminate people's rights because we consider them less than, maybe you should move to some place like Saudi Arabia or Iran.

58 Kragar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:15:38am

re: #55 Targetpractice

Isn't he old enough these days to be drawing SS and Medicare?

I thought he was going to be dead or in jail by now.

59 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:16:10am

"Hey guys, is there any constituency besides stupid white people we haven't taken a shit on in the past couple of years?"
.....
.........
"Ooh, ooh, I know, disabled people!"


For their next act, the GOP is going to start dividing up the stupid white people sector into smaller groups so they can shit on them too. They've run out of everybody else.

60 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:16:28am

re: #58 Kragar

I thought he was going to be dead or in jail by now.

Nah he's just a little coward who talks tough but if faced in an actual situation would do the same thing he did before the draft board. Typical right wing lunatic. Talks a tough game but is actually a little pansy.

61 bratwurst  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:16:30am

re: #52 Kragar

Nugent: Budget deal should suspend welfare recipients’ voting rights

Draft dodger says what?

GOP Chairman Limbaugh also regularly opines that some people should not be allowed to vote. Difficult to imagine anything less American in my book.

62 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:16:56am

re: #52 Kragar

Nugent: Budget deal should suspend welfare recipients’ voting rights

Draft dodger pants crapper says what?

63 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:16:57am

re: #53 Ian G.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Also
Texas City Disaster 1947

My mother was a survivor of the Texas City explosion. She wasn't injured but she did find a human leg in the street when she and her sisters finally went out to see what was going on. They were just under a mile from ground zero.

64 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:16:57am

re: #54 HappyWarrior

I seriously wonder what it will take for the GOP to realize they've gone off the deep end. Maybe they need a 1984 style landslide but the problem to me is even though they're a minority, they're not a small enough minority to be completely repudiated at the polls so the GOP politicians will keep on pandering to them. Hell after Santorum got second place in this year's primaries, I wouldn't be shocked if he's the nominee in 2016 and gets at least 45% of the vote. He'd lose in the general election I'm reasonably certain but he'd do well enough to convince the wingnuts that their ideology isn't a problem.It's frustrating because modern conservatism is frankly not conservative at all but reactionary.

Santorum was actually polling at 42 percent against Obama with Obama well ahead. However, that tells me one thing. 42 percent of Americans agree with Santorum and that's a frightening thought.

65 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:17:19am

re: #61 bratwurst

GOP Chairman Limbaugh also regularly opines that some people should not be allowed to vote. Difficult to imagine anything less American in my book.

As I said reactionary not conservative. If El Rusho had his way, we'd still have laws that limited people's voting rights based on race.

66 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:17:37am

re: #8 Bulworth

I wonder, do other countries have TV reality shows that showcase whackadoo U.S. politicians like this dimlight?

What, they can't get C-SPAN?

67 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:17:47am

re: #56 The Mountain That Blogs

Nope. He's 63.

Huh, figured he was older than that.

68 RadicalModerate  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:18:00am

re: #46 Shiplord Kirel

You just can't make this stuff up. I see that the contract mob who put the 3000 tons of M6 outdoors goes by the name of "Explo Systems."
The whole parish (La.) could go up in a mushroom cloud if lightning hits the wrong barrel of this junk.

I remember back in the day when the US Army used to operate this facility that it was the source of one of the most ironic highway signs ever.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Since it is now a private facility, the highway signs have been changed.

69 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:18:04am

re: #61 bratwurst

GOP Chairman Limbaugh also regularly opines that some people should not be allowed to vote. Difficult to imagine anything less American in my book.

People like drug addicts? Well, he was for that until he was busted.

70 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:18:18am

re: #64 Gus

Santorum was actually polling at 42 percent against Obama with Obama well ahead. However, that tells me one thing. 42 percent of Americans agree with Santorum and that's a frightening thought.

I don't think we're going to see an electoral landslide for a long time. And it's because 40 or per your numbers 42% of the country is going to vote Republican anyhow.

71 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:18:29am

re: #24 Decatur Deb

If that much explosive went off, it would probably rival the Pepcon chemical plant disaster in Henderson, NV.

72 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:19:11am

re: #63 Shiplord Kirel

Also
Texas City Disaster 1947

My mother was a survivor of the Texas City explosion. She wasn't injured but she did find a human leg in the street when she and her sisters finally went out to see what was going on. They were just under a mile from ground zero.

As late as 1965, the Army was still using footage of the Texas City blast in their "Mass Casualties" training. First time I heard the word "triage".

73 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:21:35am

re: #27 Mattand

Blatant tribalism. No other way to describe it. They've hitched their wagon to the crazy horse, and will follow it into the ravine with a total disregard for those !WARNING, RAVINE AHEAD! signs all the while.

74 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:22:46am

re: #72 Decatur Deb

As late as 1965, the Army was still using footage of the Texas City blast in their "Mass Casualties" training. First time I heard the word "triage".

I had to wait for M*A*S*H.

75 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:24:08am

Groan.

76 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:26:00am

re: #24 Decatur Deb

OT, but breaking news:
This is why Army Materiel Command explosives professionals go ballistic when they're told private contractors can do it "better, cheaper".

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Wonder what that would register on the Richter scale...

77 Kragar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:26:07am

re: #75 Gus

Groan.

[Embedded content]

Egyptian press refuses to print to protest ‘tyranny’

Egyptian independent and opposition newspapers refused to publish their Tuesday editions in protest against lack of press freedom in the country’s draft constitution, set for a popular referendum on December 15.

The move was in order to “stand up to tyranny,” independent daily Al-Tahrir said on its website.

“The Egyptian Independent objects to continued restrictions on media liberties, especially after hundreds of Egyptians gave their lives for freedom,” read a message on that newspaper’s website, its only viewable content on Tuesday morning.

78 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:26:16am

This is exactly right -- the conspiracy theories and hateful ideology of the John Birch Society have completely taken over the GOP.

79 SD1981  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:27:11am

The paranoia infesting the Republican Party is eating away at them like a cancer

There was a time when Bob Dole represented the conservative wing of the Republican Party. Nowadays he's so far away from the conservative wing of his party that it could fill a contiinent

I remember reading that Barry Goldwater remarked to Bob Dole during the 1996 presidential election that he couldn't believe that they were both considered moderates in the scale of ideology that the modern GOP had. And that was sixteen years ago. Goodness knows what they'd be considered today

80 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:27:24am

Man.. I shouldn't slept during civics class.
I thought the Senate voted for treaties

81 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:27:45am

Politifact: The 2012 Lie of the Year Finalists
I think I'm going to root for "you didn't build that" since the GOP made it the cornerstone of their convention. I think Harry Reid's evidence free claim that Mitt didn't pay taxes should have made the finals list.

82 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:29:34am

re: #79 SD1981

The paranoia infesting the Republican Party is eating away at them like a cancer

There was a time when Bob Dole represented the conservative wing of the Republican Party. Nowadays he's so far away from the conservative wing of his party that it could fill a contiinent

I remember reading that Barry Goldwater remarked to Bob Dole during the 1996 presidential election that he couldn't believe that they were both considered moderates in the scale of ideology that the modern GOP had. And that was sixteen years ago. Goodness knows what they'd be considered today

I think Barry actually said liberals but this is so true. Hell, George W. Bush, their last successful presidential candidate thinks is a good treaty. As did their 2008 nominee. Not sure what Romney thinks of this treaty but I wouldn't be shocked if he supports this as well. Their base frankly is a big part of the problem. Of course, another part of the problem are the politicians who pander to said base.

83 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:29:52am

re: #76 Capitalist Tool

Wonder what that would register on the Richter scale...

Depends on how fast it would propagate from one pallet/stack to another. From the photos, it would take some number of milliseconds, though things get weird when individual blast waves coalesce. Definitely break some crockery.

84 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:30:55am

re: #77 Kragar

Egyptian press refuses to print to protest ‘tyranny’

The protests are continuing, that's a good sign but it's going to take getting a lot more people in the streets to start bringing pressure from the military and police. I'm seeing talk of boycotting the vote on the referendum which I'm afraid will only result in its passage. This may not be resolved for another decade or two.

85 erik_t  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:31:28am

re: #76 Capitalist Tool

Wonder what that would register on the Richter scale...

Mathtime!

M6 propellant is good for 0.63x TNT equivalent in impulse (PDF warning). TNT is good for 2.8 MJ/kg. We have 2.7 million kg of M6. So we should have a total ideal burst energy of 7.56TJ, good for between 5.0 and 5.5 on the Richter scale.

Getting this to burst all at once is left as an exercise to the reader.

86 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:32:01am

re: #70 HappyWarrior

I don't think we're going to see an electoral landslide for a long time. And it's because 40 or per your numbers 42% of the country is going to vote Republican anyhow.

87 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:32:08am

re: #46 Shiplord Kirel

You just can't make this stuff up. I see that the contract mob who put the 3000 tons of M6 outdoors goes by the name of "Explo Systems."
The whole parish (La.) could go up in a mushroom cloud if lightning hits the wrong barrel of this junk.

What barrels? They stored it outside in cardboard boxes, one kid with a match could sure start something "awesome" at this place...

Doyline explosive storage

Doyline Aerial view

88 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:33:27am

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Politifact: The 2012 Lie of the Year Finalists
I think I'm going to root for "you didn't build that" since the GOP made it the cornerstone of their convention. I think Harry Reid's evidence free claim that Mitt didn't pay taxes should have made the finals list.

Reid's accusation was never proven false.

89 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:33:32am

re: #87 watching you tiny alien kittens are

What barrels? They stored it outside in cardboard boxes, one kid with a match could sure start something awesome at this place...

Doyline explosive storage

Doyline Aerial view

Wonder how much of that stuff grew legs?

90 RadicalModerate  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:34:12am

re: #52 Kragar

Nugent: Budget deal should suspend welfare recipients’ voting rights

Draft dodger says what?

Oh, he goes even further down the racist path in this interview.

Following President Barack Obama’s re-election last month, Nugent opined that welfare recipients were “gluttonous, soulless pigs who feast on whatever Fedzilla provides.”

“And you thought ‘Planet of the Apes’ was a movie,” he wrote. “Too many Americans have become entitlement chumps who have been convinced by Democrats and other liberal scammers that they are entitled to the sweat and hard work of other Americans. Free cellphones aren’t free. Food stamps have become vote-getting extortion vouchers.”

This kind of stuff is straight out of Stormfront.

91 bratwurst  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:35:41am

re: #78 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

This is exactly right -- the conspiracy theories and hateful ideology of the John Birch Society has completely taken over the GOP.

Buckley (and others) fought successfully to keep them outside of the tent...now they pretty much ARE the tent.

Over Thanksgiving I was with a Reagan Democrat who, back in 2010, was CONVINCED there was NO WAY POSSIBLE he would vote for Obama again. However, after seeing the idiocy on display during the primary process, Romney's utter lack of core beliefs, and ESPECIALLY the knucklehead who was chosen as Romney's running mate, he reluctantly helped Obama get re-elected in a swing state.

92 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:35:41am

re: #88 Eventual Carrion

Reid's accusation was never proven false.

Hitchen's Razor.

93 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:36:00am

re: #89 Capitalist Tool

Wonder how much of that stuff grew legs?

Their security plan was probably as good as their storage plan.

94 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:36:23am

re: #86 Gus

[Embedded content]

Yikes man.

95 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:38:01am

re: #93 Decatur Deb

Their security plan was probably as good as their storage plan.

"Where should we hide this highly explosive material so that evil people won't find it sir??"

"The last place they'd expect it, private. Right out in broad daylight near a populated area that could be vaporized at the slightest spark. Someday you'll be as smart as me."

96 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:38:49am

re: #90 RadicalModerate

Oh, he goes even further down the racist path in this interview.

This kind of stuff is straight out of Stormfront.

You know Ted, I hate to remind you of this but your candidate of choice won the poorest states in the country and the ones that get the most in government aid. There's nothing wrong with that but acting like Obama and liberals are a bunch of takers is bullshit. But I know, you conservatives like to put down your imaginary liberal on welfare because it makes you feel better lying to yourself about the reality of how people vote in this country.

97 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:41:28am

Really the whole liberals are takers shit makes me laugh. Median income here in Loudoun County is nearly six figures or maybe even over and yet we went for Obama by a higher margin than the state of Virginia as a whole did. Romney did his best in the poorest part of the state. That aside from the pathetic elitism is why Romney's 47% comment was so ludicrous. The dummy was insulting his own base more or less.

98 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:41:49am

re: #90 RadicalModerate

Oh, he goes even further down the racist path in this interview.

This kind of stuff is straight out of Stormfront.

Most of the people that I see working at Walmart are white.

99 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:41:55am

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Hitchen's Razor.

No, Rmoney hiding what everyone else revealed.

100 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:42:42am

re: #79 SD1981

Welcome, hatchling.

101 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:43:03am

re: #93 Decatur Deb

Their security plan was probably as good as their storage plan.

A guy could have some fun with some of that stuff (extra carefully of course). Every boy likes to try to blow up stuff and we never really grow up, do we?

When I was a kid and first discovered that we could buy dynamite fuse at the hardware store in town, there was about a 1/2 summer when a good part of my earnings (and my friends') from picking up and selling empty pop bottles got diverted from buying BBs to fuse- by- the foot.
We eventually either got tired of it or scared ourselves out of it- don't remember which/if both.

102 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:43:31am

re: #96 HappyWarrior

[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

More states that trended D got $1 or less back from the feds for every $1 sent than those that were R.

103 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:46:10am

re: #81 Killgore Trout

I think Harry Reid's evidence free claim that Mitt didn't pay taxes should have made the finals list.

No, it shouldn't. That was not a lie -- it was a claim that has been neither proven nor disproven, and the fact that Mitt Romney got away with never releasing the returns that would have settled the matter means we'll never know.

104 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:47:00am

WINGNUT RAGEGASM

105 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:47:50am

re: #103 Charles Johnson

No, it shouldn't. That was not a lie -- it was a claim that has been neither proven nor disproven, and the fact that Mitt Romney got away with never releasing the returns that would have settled the matter means we'll never know.

Like all the rest of the really rich people, he would have payed a lower percentage of his income into taxes than I do.

Taxes are the greatest method yet devised to keep the little guy little.

106 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:48:06am
107 krypto  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:49:44am

I'm not so sure that "No UN treaty can ever supersede the laws of the United States; the Supremacy Clause of the US Consitution explicitly forbids it."

We have this in the second clause of Article Six of the US Constitution:
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Someone correct me if I have this wrong, but Wipikedia appears to call this the "supremacy clause" and it seems to say that a UN treaty ratified by the Senate would be the law of the land in the US.

108 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:49:53am

re: #106 Gus

[Embedded content]

Agree very strongly with that. We're rejecting a treaty that 150+ nations have adapted that helps people with disabilities because a bunch of right wing knuckleheads buy crazy anti-UN conspiracy bullshit.

109 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:50:56am

re: #108 HappyWarrior

Agree very strongly with that. We're rejecting a treaty that 150+ nations have adapted that helps people with disabilities because a bunch of right wing knuckleheads buy crazy anti-UN conspiracy bullshit.

110 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:51:00am


...Reducing the number of employees who receive health insurance...

111 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:51:10am

re: #107 krypto

No - the Supreme Court has ruled on several occasions that the Supremacy Clause specifically forbids having treaties supersede the US Constitution or US laws.

Lawhawk has posted several things about this. It's totally settled.

112 erik_t  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:51:41am

re: #110 Vicious Babushka

...Reducing the number of employees who receive health insurance...

My surprise. Let me show it to you.

113 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:51:42am

re: #108 HappyWarrior

Agree very strongly with that. We're rejecting a treaty that 150+ nations have adapted that helps people with disabilities because a bunch of right wing knuckleheads buy crazy anti-UN conspiracy bullshit.

Sad thing? This isn't the first widely accepted treaty that this Congress has voted against. See also: Law of the Sea.

114 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:52:20am

re: #110 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]


...Reducing the number of employees who receive health insurance...

One step closer to Single Payer.

115 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:52:30am

re: #110 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]


...Reducing the number of employees who receive health insurance...

*headdesk*

116 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:52:57am

re: #112 erik_t

My surprise. Let me show it to you.

Totally didn't see that coming, did ya?//

117 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:52:59am

re: #107 krypto

See: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

118 Skip Intro  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:53:12am

re: #103 Charles Johnson

No, it shouldn't. That was not a lie -- it was a claim that has been neither proven nor disproven, and the fact that Mitt Romney got away with never releasing the returns that would have settled the matter means we'll never know.

Sorry, but that's way too close to the birther argument that Obama is required to prove his accusers wrong. It doesn't work that way. Just the opposite, in fact.

If Reid had something he should have shown it. He didn't.

119 palomino  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:53:16am

Isn't this as much a vote against the UN ("one world government, help!") as against anything else?

It's not the substance of the treaty, apparently, but the fact that the incredibly insular and paranoid contemporary right hates the UN with a passion.

120 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:53:42am

re: #113 Targetpractice

Sad thing? This isn't the first widely accepted treaty that this Congress has voted against. See also: Law of the Sea.

I know it's not but I take this shit personally. Law of the Sea while I am sure it's important doesn't have the same impact on me personally. It's also the sad old bullshit about the UN that pisses me off and it doesn't help when this year's Republican primary runner up is spouting it in front of the Senate and lending it some credibility by his mere presence.

121 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:53:47am

re: #107 krypto

That would be a serious misreading of whatever you read.

As I've noted over the past couple of days, Reid v. Covert addresses the issue of treaties, federal law, and the US Constitution pretty conclusively and doesn't pull punches about what the Court considers to be the law of the land and which law governs.

Here's a hint - it's the US Constitution, followed by US statutes, then treaty obligations. If the US passes a statute that affects a treaty obligation, the statute trumps:

Article VI, the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution, declares:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof, and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; . . .

There is nothing in this language which intimates that treaties and laws enacted pursuant to them do not have to comply with the provisions of the Constitution. Nor is there anything in the debates which accompanied the drafting and ratification of the Constitution which even suggests such a result. These debates, as well as the history that surrounds the adoption of the treaty provision in Article VI, make it clear that the reason treaties were not limited to those made in "pursuance" of the Constitution was so that agreements made by the United States under the Articles of Confederation, including the important peace treaties which concluded the Revolutionary [p17] War, would remain in effect. [n31] It would be manifestly contrary to the objectives of those who created the Constitution, as well as those who were responsible for the Bill of Rights -- let alone alien to our entire constitutional history and tradition -- to construe Article VI as permitting the United States to exercise power under an international agreement without observing constitutional prohibitions. [n32] In effect, such construction would permit amendment of that document in a manner not sanctioned by Article V. The prohibitions of the Constitution were designed to apply to all branches of the National Government, and they cannot be nullified by the Executive or by the Executive and the Senate combined.

There is nothing new or unique about what we say here. This Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty. [n33] For example, in Geofroy v. Riggs, 133 U.S. 258, 267, it declared:

The treaty power, as expressed in the Constitution, is in terms unlimited except by those restraints which are found in that instrument against the action of the government or of its departments, and those arising from the nature of the government itself and of that of the States. It would not be contended that it extends so far as to authorize what the Constitution forbids, or a change in the character of the [p18] government, or in that of one of the States, or a cession of any portion of the territory of the latter, without its consent.

This Court has also repeatedly taken the position that an Act of Congress, which must comply with the Constitution, is on a full parity with a treaty, and that, when a statute which is subsequent in time is inconsistent with a treaty, the statute to the extent of conflict renders the treaty null. [n34] It would be completely anomalous to say that a treaty need not comply with the Constitution when such an agreement can be overridden by a statute that must conform to that instrument.

122 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:54:50am

re: #118 Skip Intro

Sorry, but that's way too close to the birther argument that Obama is required to prove his accusers wrong. It doesn't work that way. Just the opposite, in fact.

If Reid had something he should have shown it. He didn't.

No, it's nothing like a Birther argument. WTF?

That's right, Reid made a claim without evidence. It's not accurate to call it a "lie," though, because we don't know whether it was true or false. Why is this a difficult thing to understand?

123 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:56:02am
124 Kragar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:56:40am
125 Capitalist Tool  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:57:28am

re: #123 Gus

[Embedded content]

Yeah, none of us had heard about the end of the world this month and if we had, we couldn't have imagined 2012, anyway.

126 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:57:35am

re: #124 Kragar

Wildmon: Obama Wouldn't Have Been Re-Elected if He Was White

Yes, just keep telling yourselves that. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

127 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:58:31am

re: #123 Gus

[Embedded content]

I saw that image on facebook the other day. Shit, John L. Lewis, who was probably more loved in my maternal grandparents homes than FDR growing up was a Republican. Shit Reagan reached out to unions. Today's Republicans just prefer to demonize labor. If the Cold War was still going on and Solidarity started up, today's Republicans would dismiss them as a union and move on. That's where they've gotten to.

128 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:58:52am

re: #124 Kragar

Wildmon: Obama Wouldn't Have Been Re-Elected if He Was White

Wildmon 2016: "Hilary wouldn't have been elected if she were male."

129 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:59:01am
130 Bulworth  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:59:50am
Conservative rocker Ted Nugent is urging the Republican Party to “stop the insanity” and insist that voting rights be suspended for welfare recipients as a part of a larger budget deal.

You can have my answer now if you like. Here's my answer: nothing.

131 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:00:33pm

re: #128 Decatur Deb

Wildmon 2016: "Hilary wouldn't have been elected if she were male."

Yep. It's the usual excuses that people are only voting for Obama because of race. Did it ever figure to Wildmon and his like minded associates that a lot of us find Mitt Romney and his ideology repulsive and find Obama's better for the country? Yeah just liberal white guilt. Keep on telling yourselves that conservatives and you wonder why we've been handing you your ass at the polls the past two presidential elections.

132 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:01:11pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Hitchen's Razor.

Hitchens said that a claim made without evidence could be dismissed without evidence. Fine, most people did in fact dismiss it. Hitchens never said that such a claim could be considered a lie.

133 erik_t  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:02:23pm

re: #132 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Hitchens said that a claim made without evidence could be dismissed without evidence. Fine, most people did in fact dismiss it. Hitchens never said that such a claim could be considered a lie.

To be perfectly frank, the first non-release of personal income taxes in the modern era is circumstantial evidence but it is certainly eyebrow-raising.

134 jaunte  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:02:35pm

re: #130 Bulworth

Conservative rocker Ted Nugent is urging the Republican Party to “stop the insanity

The Onion?

135 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:03:27pm

re: #133 erik_t

To be perfectly frank, the first non-release of personal income taxes in the modern era is circumstantial evidence but it is certainly eyebrow-raising.

I thought that was very curious. Funny thing was that probably was the least of Romney's mistakes. Dissing nearly half the country was probably the biggest whopper.

136 palomino  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:05:56pm

re: #133 erik_t

To be perfectly frank, the first non-release of personal income taxes in the modern era is circumstantial evidence but it is certainly eyebrow-raising.

Exactly. We can only speculate on what rates Romney paid and whether the tax returns would have been very damaging politically.

But we do know with certainty that Romney chose to essentially break with a half century of tradition when it comes to candidates releasing their tax returns.

137 Ian G.  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:06:13pm

re: #86 Gus

[Embedded content]

You know that South Park episode about the 9/11 Truthers in which Stan says that 1/4 of the population of this country is "retarded"? Yeah....

138 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:06:46pm

re: #102 lawhawk

[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

More states that trended D got $1 or less back from the feds for every $1 sent than those that were R.

The problem with those "total expenditures by state" numbers is that they include Federal pensions, federal (purchasing) procurements, federal salaries, highway funding, and all kinds of stuff that has nothing to do with anyone "Taking" anything from the "Makers."

What you really want to look at when discussing this is what is tracked as "Other Direct Payments" by the government...

Other Direct Payments
Includes spending (usually fiscal year obligations) for Medicare, federal unemployment insurance benefits, refunded Earned Income Tax Credits, agricultural assistance, Food Stamps, education grants, federal employee benefit premiums, rent supplements and assistance, disaster assistance, and other direct federal payments to entities and individuals (aside from retirement and disability payments

Look at the amounts in this PDF which lists expenditures by state but divided into five separate categories.

[Link: www.nemw.org...]

Even then you still have to break it down on a per capita basis for the numbers to be realistically assessed. Just looking at the gross numbers tells you that New York is the biggest "Taker" state with Florida in second place and Texas coming in third. But looked at on a per capita basis that is no longer true, those states take more total but it is divided between a much larger population than many of the other states.

139 efuseakay  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:06:48pm

Kirk (R-IL), Not Voting

:::sigh:::

140 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:07:46pm

Too bad we can't deport Nugent to Somalia. Oh, wait, we could always sign a treaty to that effect......

141 efuseakay  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:09:17pm

re: #136 palomino

Exactly. We can only speculate on what rates Romney paid and whether the tax returns would have been very damaging politically.

But we do know with certainty that Romney chose to essentially break with a half century of tradition when it comes to candidates releasing their tax returns.

All I need to know is that McCain chose Palin instead of him.

142 Bulworth  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:09:36pm

re: #134 jaunte

Today's WNDteabag "movement" is striving to put The Onion out of business.

143 BongCrodny  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:09:48pm

re: #110 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]


...Reducing the number of employees who receive health insurance...

Because $90 billion isn't enough for the Walton family.

144 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:10:11pm

Got get myself back to the garden...BBL.

145 Skip Intro  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:12:14pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

No, it's nothing like a Birther argument. WTF?

That's right, Reid made a claim without evidence. It's not accurate to call it a "lie," though, because we don't know whether it was true or false. Why is this a difficult thing to understand?

Fine. It's not a lie, but Rmoney was under no obligation to prove it false. Reid was out of line, and it gave the GOP cover for the real story of Rmoney refusing to release his tax returns. In that it was a stupid move.

146 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:12:25pm
147 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:13:20pm

re: #145 Skip Intro

Fine. It's not a lie, but Rmoney was under no obligation to prove it false.

And I never said he was. I'm simply making the narrow point that it would not be accurate for Politifact to call this a "lie."

148 dragonfire1981  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:15:13pm

If you live in one of these districts that voted NO, TAKE ACTION.

Write a strongly worded letter to your senator telling him/her how angry you are about this.

Write letters to the editor expressing your frustration.

Organize protests, try to engage local news media is possible.

THESE SENATORS NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

And they need to know that We, the people, are VERY pissed off right now!

149 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:15:17pm

re: #145 Skip Intro

Fine. It's not a lie, but Rmoney was under no obligation to prove it false. Reid was out of line, and it gave the GOP cover for the real story of Rmoney refusing to release his tax returns. In that it was a stupid move.

"Cover," my ass. Only the Beltway circuit ever thought that Reid's comments took Romney's tax returns off the table. Everybody else kept demanding them even right up til the election.

150 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:16:01pm

re: #146 Gus

[Embedded content]

Looks like a good sized crowd

151 Skip Intro  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:16:51pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

Well, I missed the post where Politifact came into this discussion. So yes, I do agree that it shouldn't have been characterized as a lie.

152 Kragar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:17:11pm

Senate Republicans Block Ratification Of U.N. Treaty On Rights For The Disabled, Citing Impact On Home-Schoolers

“I do oppose the CRPD because I think it does impinge upon our sovereignty,” said Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK). “Unelected bureaucratic bodies would implement the treaty and pass so-called recommendations that would be forced upon the United Nations and the U.S. … This would especially affect those parents who home-school their children. … The unelected foreign bureaucrats, not parents, would decide what is in the best interests of the disabled child, even in the home.”

Inhofe was joined by Republican Sens. Jim DeMint (SC), Mike Lee (UT), Marco Rubio (FL) and most of the party’s leadership in quashing the treaty. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (KY), who is up for re-election in 2014, voted against it.

“I and many of my constituents who home-school or send their children to religious schools,” said Lee, “have justifiable doubt that a foreign body based in Geneva, Switzerland, should be deciding what is best for a child at home in Utah.”

Morons.

153 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:18:10pm

re: #152 Kragar

Senate Republicans Block Ratification Of U.N. Treaty On Rights For The Disabled, Citing Impact On Home-Schoolers

Morons.

"We have a right to brainwash our kids, free of foreign interference!!!"

154 Skip Intro  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:18:20pm

re: #149 Targetpractice

"Cover," my ass. Only the Beltway circuit ever thought that Reid's comments took Romney's tax returns off the table. Everybody else kept demanding them even right up til the election.

By "cover", I simply mean it gave Fox News / talk radio a diversion to use to ignore the real issue.

155 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:19:29pm

re: #154 Skip Intro

By "cover", I simply mean it gave Fox News / talk radio a diversion to use to ignore the real issue.

A diversion no one really took serious except the Fox News crowd. Everybody else kept insisting that Willard fork over his tax returns.

156 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:19:51pm

re: #79 SD1981

The paranoia infesting the Republican Party is eating away at them like a cancer

There was a time when Bob Dole represented the conservative wing of the Republican Party. Nowadays he's so far away from the conservative wing of his party that it could fill a contiinent

I remember reading that Barry Goldwater remarked to Bob Dole during the 1996 presidential election that he couldn't believe that they were both considered moderates in the scale of ideology that the modern GOP had. And that was sixteen years ago. Goodness knows what they'd be considered today

Pinko commie-loving RINO libruls...

157 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:20:10pm

re: #151 Skip Intro

Well, I missed the post where Politifact came into this discussion. So yes, I do agree that it shouldn't have been characterized as a lie.

The conversation started on what should be Politifacts "Lie of the Year" for 2012. So no since it has been neither proved or disproved it is out of contention for that "honor."

158 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:20:20pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

Looks like a good sized crowd

It's pretty big and they have another one out in Alexandria.

159 erik_t  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:20:48pm

re: #152 Kragar

Senate Republicans Block Ratification Of U.N. Treaty On Rights For The Disabled, Citing Impact On Home-Schoolers

Morons.

That they see their choice of home-schooling as a human-rights opportunity to remove the education of their children from all oversight and all consideration from knowledgeable outsiders and society at large is extraordinarily telling.

Not to mention, y'know, terrifying.

160 bratwurst  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:21:25pm
161 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:22:15pm

re: #160 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

"We're all gonna die unless we sacrifice the poor and elderly to the great god DEFICIT!"

162 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:22:33pm

re: #80 A Man for all Seasons

Man.. I shouldn't slept during civics class.
I thought the Senate voted for treaties

They do...and in this case, Senate Republicans succeeded in voting down a treaty that basically restated US law.

Paranoiacs and panderers all.

163 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:23:33pm
164 dragonfire1981  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:23:37pm

Did these senators realize the treaty is based on legislation we have IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW??

As in, disabled people in the U.S. already have these rights and the intent was to get the rest of world on board too.

165 dragonfire1981  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:24:24pm

You know I can't help but notice the irony of people terrified of things like DEATH PANELS having no problems whatsoever cutting off government aid to poor people and throwing them to the wolves.

166 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:24:37pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

And I never said he was. I'm simply making the narrow point that it would not be accurate for Politifact to call this a "lie."

But let's be fair. This wouldn't be the first time Politifact classified something a "lie" that clearly wasn't. They give in to the sweet blandishments of the MBF every once and a while.

167 Kragar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:25:01pm

re: #162 TedStriker

They do...and in this case, Senate Republicans succeeded in voting down a treaty that basically restated US law.

Paranoiacs and panderers all.

WE AREN'T GOING TO LET BLUE HELMETED SOCIALISTS TELL US WHAT TO DO! WE'VE GOT PREACHERS TO DO THAT FOR US!
////

168 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:25:18pm

re: #90 RadicalModerate

Oh, he goes even further down the racist path in this interview.

This kind of stuff is straight out of Stormfront.

Hey, Uncle Ted, eat shit.

169 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:26:13pm

re: #162 TedStriker

They do...and in this case, Senate Republicans succeeded in voting down a treaty that basically restated US law.

Paranoiacs and panderers all.

They support promotion of liberty and freedom to other nations...just so long as those other nations understand its on America's terms.

170 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:28:25pm

re: #166 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

But let's be fair. This wouldn't be the first time Politifact classified something a "lie" that clearly wasn't. They give in to the sweet blandishments of the MBF every once and a while.

This is an experiment. One of my favorite auto-hyphenation errors of all time occurred 20 or more years ago in the Boston Globe, when the word "notrump" in the bridge column came out as "not-rump"

Darn. Didn't work.

171 Gus  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:28:37pm

Irony.

Right. The MB seems to think that they have a "democratic right" to oppress Egyptians. They don't understand how democracy works.

172 Kragar  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:29:04pm

Ron Paul super PAC spent most of its money on non-campaign activities

The pro-Ron Paul group Revolution PAC spent 83 percent of its $1.2 million total fundraising haul on administrative costs and not on campaign activities, Bloomberg News revealed Tuesday.

Bloomberg‘s report noted that Revolution PAC director Gary Franchi paid himself and his companies roughly $153,000, including money for the PAC’s rent.

The PAC is just one of many that devoted an unusually large percentage of its resources to administrative and salary costs. Bloomberg noted that the founder of the Newt Gingrich supporting PAC Winning Our Future did something similar, paying herself almost $240,000 in the months after Gingrich dropped out of the Republican presidential race.

Overall, Federal Election Commission data provided to the paper found that all the super PACs combined spent over $86 million on administrative costs during the 2012 elections — roughly 16 percent of what they took in. To top it off, out of the 782 super PACs operating in the 2012 elections, 167 spent nothing at all on advertising or political advocacy, instead opting to use all their money for administrative or consulting costs.

173 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:29:12pm

re: #169 Targetpractice

They support promotion of liberty and freedom to other nations...just so long as those other nations understand its on America's terms.

Well sure, it is OK for them, but not for us here in the land of exceptional exceptionalism!

174 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:29:42pm

re: #173 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Well sure, it is OK for them, but not for us here in the land of exceptional exceptionalism!

"Do as I say, not as I do!"

175 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:30:16pm

re: #169 Targetpractice

They support promotion of liberty and freedom to other nations...just so long as those other nations understand its on America's terms.

At the end of a gun.

176 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:30:20pm

Oops. Pay no attention to the man behind that curtain.

177 Spocomptonite  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:30:33pm

re: #46 Shiplord Kirel

You just can't make this stuff up. I see that the contract mob who put the 3000 tons of M6 outdoors goes by the name of "Explo Systems."
The whole parish (La.) could go up in a mushroom cloud if lightning hits the wrong barrel of this junk.

Pepcom was 7 explosions of 4500 tons total, not all at once, and it blew cars off roads within a couple miles, and broke windows in Vegas over 10 miles away. 3000 tons all at once would be huge.

178 hwilsonsma  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:33:19pm

I believe your statement about the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution limiting the power of a Treaty is not correct. The Supremacy Clause deals only with the Supremacy of Federal Law over State Law.

Also, the Constitution specifically gives Treaties legal equality, I do not know if it makes then above the Constitution. Someone told me this a year ago and I reacted as you have, utter nonsense, then I looked it up.

Further US Law states that once a Treaty is submitted to the Senate for approval it is treated as if ratified until it is defeated on withdrawn.

So you statement that the right is being outrageous, and the Senator is a liar, is not true. I will be happy to be proven wrong on the above as it makes no sense to me, but this is what I found out in my research!

Herb Wilson

179 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:34:03pm

re: #171 Gus

Irony.

[Embedded content]

Right. The MB seems to think that they have a "democratic right" to oppress Egyptians. They don't understand how democracy works.

The minute they started justifying unlimited government power as being necessary to "defend the revolution" I knew the jig was up. :(

180 gwangung  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:36:26pm

re: #178 hwilsonsma

I believe your statement about the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution limiting the power of a Treaty is not correct. The Supremacy Clause deals only with the Supremacy of Federal Law over State Law.

ANd what about Reid?

181 efuseakay  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:38:07pm
182 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:41:58pm

re: #178 hwilsonsma

Greetings, hatchling.

There is more than one post addressing that above. You can use the 'reply' button or the 'quote' button and clue us in to whom you are responding to, or quote a little text form the post in question at least.

183 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:44:52pm

re: #178 hwilsonsma

I believe your statement about the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution limiting the power of a Treaty is not correct. The Supremacy Clause deals only with the Supremacy of Federal Law over State Law.

Also, the Constitution specifically gives Treaties legal equality, I do not know if it makes then above the Constitution. Someone told me this a year ago and I reacted as you have, utter nonsense, then I looked it up.

Further US Law states that once a Treaty is submitted to the Senate for approval it is treated as if ratified until it is defeated on withdrawn.

So you statement that the right is being outrageous, and the Senator is a liar, is not true. I will be happy to be proven wrong on the above as it makes no sense to me, but this is what I found out in my research!

Herb Wilson

Your wrong, yes treaty articles supersede state law because of the supremacy clause, that is specifically mentioned as part of it's scope. However no treaty can be ratified or enforced that violates the articles of the Constitution of the United States. There have been several Supreme Court rulings on this issue that very bluntly reinforce this.

Next time do better research.

184 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 12:46:23pm

re: #178 hwilsonsma

You might want to read this post for a longer and more detailed explanation...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

185 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 1:44:50pm

re: #178 hwilsonsma

I believe your statement about the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution limiting the power of a Treaty is not correct. The Supremacy Clause deals only with the Supremacy of Federal Law over State Law.

Also, the Constitution specifically gives Treaties legal equality, I do not know if it makes then above the Constitution. Someone told me this a year ago and I reacted as you have, utter nonsense, then I looked it up.

Further US Law states that once a Treaty is submitted to the Senate for approval it is treated as if ratified until it is defeated on withdrawn.

So you statement that the right is being outrageous, and the Senator is a liar, is not true. I will be happy to be proven wrong on the above as it makes no sense to me, but this is what I found out in my research!

Herb Wilson

If you're going to research issues like this, it's a good idea to do more than simply read the Wikipedia page.

The Supreme Court has definitively ruled on this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

186 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 1:47:00pm

I've slightly edited the wording above to clarify this point, and included a link to lawhawk's comment on the Reid v. Covert case, so I don't have to keep answering this over and over.

187 Areopagitica  Tue, Dec 4, 2012 11:52:55pm

You know, I didn't always agree with Bob Dole's positions but he is a gosh dang war hero and has more honor and character in his pinkie finger than, well.....the current form of the GOP has none, zip, nadda. For the GOP to cast that vote with as honorable a person as Bob Dole right there on the senate floor (and Elizabeth Dole who has done so much for the Red Cross) is despicable and as disgraceful an act as one could place upon someone who gave so much serving this country. Shameful.

I certainly don't like much of what comes out of the UN but this isn't in that category. This is a treaty that says that people with disabilities shouldn't be discriminated against. Who the hell is Jim Inhofe to say that this infringes on U.S. sovereignty and federalism...I bet he is another one of those tGOPers who espouses the constitution but has never actually read it or the Federalist Papers.

And who the hell is Rick Sanitorium to go out there and parade his poor 3 year old who suffers from a horrid genetic disorder and say that under this treaty she would be killed. What an assclown and pathetic example of a public official. Next thing you know, these idiots on the far right are going to say its against the teachings of Christianity to help the poor and disabled.

If the GOP winds up going the way of the Whigs, I think it will be this vote in front of Bob Dole that did them in. Not the fiscal cliff, not Eric Cantor's little power grab against John Boner nor Mitch McConnell's "My goal is to make Obama a one term president" comment. Its this wretched event that places the tea party's sense of humanity on display for the world to see. These people need to be voted out of office in 2014.

I hope Bob Dole issues a statement saying he is switching parties :)


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