TwitterFacebook

Jim DeMint Quits Senate to Run Right Wing Propaganda Outfit

From one hive of villainy to another
Politics • Views: 22,389

South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint is resigning from the Senate, in order to take over as president of the right wing propaganda outfit known as the Heritage Foundation.

Sen. DeMint’s departure means that South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, a Republican, will name a successor, who will have to run in a special election in 2014. In that year, both Mr. DeMint’s replacement and Sen. Lindsey Graham will be running for reelection in South Carolina.

At the Heritage Foundation, DeMint will oversee attempts to confuse the public about climate change, propaganda campaigns to mislead Americans about the economy, and model legislation to erase the separation of church and state.

In other words, pretty much the same stuff he’s been doing in the Senate, except he’ll get paid more.

Also see:
Jim DeMint’s Chosen Successor Maybe Has Had Sex Outside of Marriage, Burn Him
Jim DeMint Is Resigning: Here Are His 7 Craziest Moments

Jump to bottom

299 comments

1 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 12:52:14pm

I question the timing.

2 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 12:53:05pm

Well, Heritage has been writing legislation for him for years, might as well start working for them. Better pay and he doesn't have to worry about going out to shake the hands of the unwashed masses every 6 years.

3 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 12:53:15pm

So now he's a well paid armchair general.

4 darthstar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 12:57:01pm

re: #1 Kragar

I question the timing.

I'm sure it's just a simple misunderstanding involving meth, a dead hooker, an anal fetish, and family values.

5 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 12:59:16pm

re: #4 darthstar

I'm sure it's just a simple misunderstanding involving meth, a dead hooker, an anal fetish, and family values.

This job offer suddenly appears out of the blue after the elections?

He couldn't have announced this months ago and the people of SC be allowed to actually elect his replacement?

Coward.

6 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:00:50pm

re: #1 Kragar

I question the timing.

Yep. He has (had?) four more years of being the Tea Party Senator. Yes, he will get seven figures instead of six. But he will move from one of the powermongers to one of the advisors of powers.

It smells.

7 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:01:34pm

re: #5 Kragar

This job offer suddenly appears out of the blue after the elections?

He couldn't have announced this months ago and the people of SC be allowed to actually elect his replacement?

Coward.

That's alright, he's already named a successor, Rep. Tim Scott. And to the surprise of absolutely no one, the Tea Party's totally onboard with it and likely to pressure Haley into making it official.

9 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:02:21pm

re: #6 kirkspencer

Yep. He has (had?) four more years of being the Tea Party Senator. Yes, he will get seven figures instead of six. But he will move from one of the powermongers to one of the advisors of powers.

It smells.

Its just the usual D.C. revolving door. He has qualified for his pension, and now he can make some real money in the private sector.

10 darthstar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:02:31pm

re: #7 Targetpractice

That's alright, he's already named a successor, Rep. Tim Scott. And to the surprise of absolutely no one, the Tea Party's totally onboard with it and likely to pressure Haley into making it official.

What, like she actually has a voice in this discussion?

11 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:02:37pm

re: #4 darthstar

I'm sure it's just a simple misunderstanding involving meth, a dead hooker, an anal fetish, and family values.

What, no diapers?

12 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:03:36pm

re: #5 Kragar

He couldn't have announced this months ago and the people of SC be allowed to actually elect his replacement?

No, because the people of South Carolina (or any state) shouldn't elect their Senators. The 17th Amendment is unconstitutional.

13 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:04:01pm

re: #9 aagcobb

Its just the usual D.C. revolving door. He has qualified for his pension, and now he can make some real money in the private sector.

I've been in the private sector. They expect results.

Oh wait, political consultancy. Never mind the results part.

14 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:04:02pm

re: #10 darthstar

What, like she actually has a voice in this discussion?

She does, to a degree. She could conceivably name herself to DeMint's vacant seat.

15 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:04:20pm

re: #5 Kragar

Does smell fishy. Was there any chance of a Dem stealing that seat if he didn't run? I doubt it.

Sounds like a money grab.

16 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:05:09pm

re: #12 The Mountain That Blogs

I know you jest but the scary thing is there are a lot of people including Obama's former Senate opponent Alan Keyes who decry that amendment.

17 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:06:59pm

re: #15 Ghost of Tom Joad

Does smell fishy. Was there any chance of a Dem stealing that seat if he didn't run? I doubt it.

Sounds like a money grab.

The seat would have needed a primary.

18 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:07:23pm
In other words, pretty much the same stuff he’s been doing in the Senate, except he’ll get paid more.

A lot more considering he will still be getting his full Senate salary too on top of whatever Heritage pays. DeMint turns 62 on September 2nd next year and will then receive a full federal pension. He served more than five years in Congress so he gets a 100% pension at 62, or he can begin drawing his pension right now since he is over 55, but at a reduced rate.

19 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:07:57pm

How this could make sense:
1) he's got health concerns that might limit his travel or workload, and the Heritage job is easier (even if it pays 5x as much);
2) he's making the money grab while the offer is on the table;
3) there's some lingering controversy/scandal brewing that he wants to defuse before it gets publicized;
3a) leadership gave him this option as an out to avoid publicity;
4) it's all about the Benjamins.

I'm going with $$$$. Even if he says it isn't, it's probably about the money.

20 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:09:45pm

re: #17 Kragar

The seat would have needed a primary.

Yep, if he dropped out before now, the seat might actually have been up for grabs. Instead, now he assures that at least until 2014, it will remain in GOP hands.

21 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:10:25pm

I do think it's probably about money. Usually is but man would I love it if it came out that DeMint had a scandal going on. To me, he's one of the people most responsible for the Congressional GOP being as nuts as it is. On the other hand, he's also through his kingmaking or more accurately kingfailing the reason why the Dems have been able to hold on to the Senate. After all, he and Palin blessed such notables like Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, todd Akin, etc.

22 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:11:10pm

Millionaire congresswoman laughs when told 65 percent want tax hike for the rich

“Over 65 percent of Americans agree that taxes need to be higher on those making over $250,000 a year,” Roberts noted as Black chucked off camera. “And I know you like to say these are small business owners, these are people that are going to give jobs to the American people.”

“But when we look at this as a whole and the mandate that was given as a collective voice with the president’s re-election and he ran on the fact that he was going to raise taxes, and now this polling supports that Americans want to see taxes raised,” Roberts continued with Black unable to stop herself from snickering again at the mention of the survey results. “How can you stand there within the halls of Congress and say that’s not something you are willing to do?”

“Well, I think that’s a really good question,” Black replied with a smile. “But here’s my question: If I say I want my neighbor to pay more than what I pay — I don’t care what level you’re at, you will always have that happen — but I think that what a lot of the American people are not aware of is how it’s going to directly impact them, and that is their jobs. Because these are the job creators.”

Congresswoman Black, how many jobs have you personally created as a millionaire with the current tax breaks given to you?

23 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:12:01pm

re: #20 Targetpractice

Yep, if he dropped out before now, the seat might actually have been up for grabs. Instead, now he assures that at least until 2014, it will remain in GOP hands.

I guess Colbert could've run. Is there any democrat in S.C. who would have any chance at all of winning this seat?

24 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:12:20pm

re: #20 Targetpractice

Yep, if he dropped out before now, the seat might actually have been up for grabs. Instead, now he assures that at least until 2014, it will remain in GOP hands.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. He drops out, a full-metal wingnut like Akin/Mourdock etc. gets in and does something stupid, Dem sneaks in. With Haley as governor, he can win the seat, drop out, and it's almost guaranteed a Repub will get appointed.

25 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:13:56pm

re: #16 HappyWarrior

Including many in the Tea Party. Mike Lee, for one. Heck, I'm pretty sure Scalia said he thought it was a mistake. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that actually was part of DeMint's motivation for not resigning before the election.

26 darthstar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:14:08pm

Senator Sticky Fingers...has a nice ring to it.

27 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:14:47pm

Ah, good times.

28 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:15:45pm

re: #20 Targetpractice

Only if he dropped out before running for reelection in 2010. The seat isn't up again until 2016. Frankly, I don't think there was much of a chance of a Democrat winning the seat in a general election.

From the 2010 Senate race: DeMint defeated Greene by a comfortable margin (61-27; Green party candidate got nearly 10%). Even if it was a 2-way race, the GOP had that seat sealed up pretty well.

29 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:16:57pm

re: #25 The Mountain That Blogs

Including many in the Tea Party. Mike Lee, for one. Heck, I'm pretty sure Scalia said he thought it was a mistake. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that actually was part of DeMint's motivation for not resigning before the election.

Funny because Lee never gets elected if there is no 17th amendment. I'm no observer of Utah politics but I bet Bob Bennett was more popular with the Utah state senate than Mike Lee was.

30 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:17:07pm

re: #28 lawhawk

To be fair, Alvin Greene wasn't exactly the most serious of candidates.

31 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:17:27pm

re: #22 Kragar

Millionaire congresswoman laughs when told 65 percent want tax hike for the rich

Congresswoman Black, how many jobs have you personally created as a millionaire with the current tax breaks given to you?

That's exactly the question that is never asked about this. I mean, that's the whole point of high-end tax cuts. That money will be invested into businesses that will then create jobs, therefore trickle-down etc. (I think the commentariat is smart enough to not need the play-by-play).

But it's complete bullshit. Romney was the perfect example. What do the rich do with this money, especially in today's world? Off-shore investments, or shady hedge-fund operations that are nothing more than casinos (fraudulent in my opinion) that do nothing to help the economy. That, and then they use their absurd wealth to buy legislative power in order to increase that wealth even more.

32 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:18:13pm

re: #31 Ghost of Tom Joad

That's exactly the question that is never asked about this. I mean, that's the whole point of high-end tax cuts. That money will be invested into businesses that will then create jobs, therefore trickle-down etc. (I think the commentariat is smart enough to not need the play-by-play).

But it's complete bullshit. Romney was the perfect example. What do the rich do with this money, especially in today's world? Off-shore investments, or shady hedge-fund operations that are nothing more than casinos (fraudulent in my opinion) that do nothing to help the economy. That, and then they use their absurd wealth to buy legislative power in order to increase that wealth even more.

Exactly and what you describe is why supply side economics theory is a myth.

33 darthstar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:18:28pm

re: #28 lawhawk

Only if he dropped out before running for reelection in 2010. The seat isn't up again until 2016. Frankly, I don't think there was much of a chance of a Democrat winning the seat in a general election.

Maybe not...but there will be two primaries in 2014 now - one for Demint's seat and one for Lindsey Graham's (though he probably hopes the teabaggers focus on the open seat and tear each other apart there). But given two seats in the same election, it would provide an opportunity for Democrats to focus on one of them and stand a chance of gaining one.

34 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:19:02pm

re: #22 Kragar

Millionaire congresswoman laughs when told 65 percent want tax hike for the rich

Congresswoman Black, how many jobs have you personally created as a millionaire with the current tax breaks given to you?

exactly

the gop continues to confuse the issue by tying personal income tax rates to business decisions about hiring

35 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:21:31pm

re: #33 darthstar

Maybe not...but there will be two primaries in 2014 now - one for Demint's seat and one for Lindsey Graham's (though he probably hopes the teabaggers focus on the open seat and tear each other apart there). But given two seats in the same election, it would provide an opportunity for Democrats to focus on one of them and stand a chance of gaining one.

more opportunities for a teabag primary to hand a safe republican seat to a democrat

36 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:22:52pm

re: #34 engineer cat

exactly

the gop continues to confuse the issue by tying personal income tax rates to business decisions about hiring

Fun thing - go through the list of the nation's wealthiest and see how many started on third base. Not all, but the majority.

37 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:24:28pm

re: #31 Ghost of Tom Joad

That's exactly the question that is never asked about this. I mean, that's the whole point of high-end tax cuts. That money will be invested into businesses that will then create jobs, therefore trickle-down etc. (I think the commentariat is smart enough to not need the play-by-play).

But it's complete bullshit. Romney was the perfect example. What do the rich do with this money, especially in today's world? Off-shore investments, or shady hedge-fund operations that are nothing more than casinos (fraudulent in my opinion) that do nothing to help the economy. That, and then they use their absurd wealth to buy legislative power in order to increase that wealth even more.

Who does more to help the economy? A family man who spends the majority of his paycheck on goods and services to care of his family or a CEO who sends his money to an offshore account to hide it from the taxman?

Job creators, my ass.

38 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:25:35pm

re: #35 engineer cat

more opportunities for a teabag primary to hand a safe republican seat to a democrat

Examples: Todd Akin. Sharron Angle.

39 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:25:47pm

re: #37 Kragar

Who does more to help the economy? A family man who spends the majority of his paycheck on goods and services to care of his family or a CEO who sends his money to an offshore account to hide it from the taxman?

Job creators, my ass.

Exactly.

40 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:26:20pm

If the "job creators" line does not work, then the anti-tax argument moves to "class envy" and "punishing success to pay for free Obamaphones"

41 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:27:05pm

re: #40 Sol Berdinowitz

If the "job creators" line does not work, then the anti-tax argument moves to "class envy" and "punishing success to pay for free Obamaphones"

Robber Barons were highly successful in their chosen profession.

42 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:27:20pm

Even though the Democrats didn't gain the seat, I think you have to count Lisa Murkowski beating Joe Miller as a failure for DeMint too. Murkowski voted for that disability treaty. No way in hell does Joe "The Berlin Wall was okay" Miller does.

43 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:29:05pm

re: #36 kirkspencer

Fun thing - go through the list of the nation's wealthiest and see how many started on third base. Not all, but the majority.

was doing my geneology this weekend. jewish immigrants come over in the last quarter of the 19th cen - tailor shops, dry goods stores, supervisor in a shirt factory. the next two generations, 3 surgeons, a magazine editor, a lawyer, a graphic artist (RISD), and a software engineer

no millionaires

44 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:31:57pm

re: #43 engineer cat

Obviously not working hard enough.

45 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:32:13pm

re: #36 kirkspencer

Fun thing - go through the list of the nation's wealthiest and see how many started on third base. Not all, but the majority.

"I earned my money the old fashioned way, I inherited it." In my observations the truly self made are less prissy about taxes. Take Warren Buffett and Bill Gates. Both self-made yet don't act like every tax increase is tyranny.

46 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:32:53pm

re: #22 Kragar

Millionaire congresswoman laughs when told 65 percent want tax hike for the rich

Congresswoman Black, how many jobs have you personally created as a millionaire with the current tax breaks given to you?

How did I know that was going to be Diane Black, one of my state's (TN) representatives?

She's a twit and a rich twit at that, representing a mixed rural/suburban district that flipped GOP for only the second time since Reconstruction (and will likely stay GOP for the foreseeable future, with the reddening of the state).

47 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:33:14pm

Rubio: I Don’t ‘Pass Judgment’ On The ‘Sin’ Of Homosexuality

By accepting the idea its a sin, you passed judgement, douchebag.

48 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:35:11pm

re: #47 Kragar

Rubio: I Don’t ‘Pass Judgment’ On The ‘Sin’ Of Homosexuality

By accepting the idea its a sin, you passed judgement, douchebag.

Would love to see his voting record too. Of course, this quote will be used by Rubio's fanboys and girls to say "See, he's not as bigoted as Rick Santorum." Really what is the honest to god difference between Marco Rubio and past Republicans that the country has rejected? He's a young guy but he's not always going to be young and take it from someone young, you can be young and ignorant, and Marco and the also young Paul Ryan and Bobby Jindal are ignorant as ti gets.

49 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:36:35pm

re: #48 HappyWarrior

his suggestion that as a policy maker he does not “pass judgment” is not backed up by his deeds. Rubio opposed allowing same-sex couples in Florida to adopt children. He opposed allowing gay and lesbian members of the Armed Services to serve openly. He opposes making it illegal to fire someone just for being LGBT.

Worse than his rigid opposition to legal recognition for same-sex couples, he recorded a robocall for the National Organization for Marriage (NOM) last month. His message was part of an unsuccessful $500,000 campaign by the anti-LGBT group to encourage voters to oppose pro-equality candidates and ballot initiatives in the November elections. Despite Rubio’s efforts, voters rejected NOM’s positions in every single race and all four ballot questions.

51 Destro  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:38:39pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Jim DeMint's so called chosen successor just looks happy to be there and nothing more.

52 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:39:00pm

re: #49 Kragar

Creeping Sharia Catholicism! (somebody explain to me how they're different? Yes, this is rhetorical.)

53 Destro  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:39:27pm

re: #43 engineer cat

was doing my geneology this weekend. jewish immigrants come over in the last quarter of the 19th cen - tailor shops, dry goods stores, supervisor in a shirt factory. the next two generations, 3 surgeons, a magazine editor, a lawyer, a graphic artist (RISD), and a software engineer

no millionaires

We must be related.......

54 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:39:49pm

re: #26 darthstar

Senator Sticky Fingers...has a nice ring to it.

[Embedded content]

I could see her nominating someone other than DeMint's man just to demonstrate her independence and bolster her own power base.

/Don't get all idealistic on me, considerations like this weigh far more than the appointee's decency with any governor.

55 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:41:03pm

re: #49 Kragar


his suggestion that as a policy maker he does not “pass judgment” is not backed up by his deeds. Rubio opposed allowing same-sex couples in Florida to adopt children. He opposed allowing gay and lesbian members of the Armed Services to serve openly. He opposes making it illegal to fire someone just for being LGBT.

Worse than his rigid opposition to legal recognition for same-sex couples, he recorded a robocall for the National Organization for Marriage (NOM) last month. His message was part of an unsuccessful $500,000 campaign by the anti-LGBT group to encourage voters to oppose pro-equality candidates and ballot initiatives in the November elections. Despite Rubio’s efforts, voters rejected NOM’s positions in every single race and all four ballot questions.

So, he's a typical Republican on GLBT issues. Shocked I tell you. He sucks.

56 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:41:37pm

re: #52 Ghost of Tom Joad

Creeping Sharia Catholicism! (somebody explain to me how they're different? Yes, this is rhetorical.)

Wine? :)

57 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:43:03pm

re: #56 HappyWarrior

Wine? :)

Blech, I hate wine. Time to go light a Christmas tree on fire.

59 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:45:51pm

re: #57 Ghost of Tom Joad

Blech, I hate wine. Time to go light a Christmas tree on fire.

I know. I prefer beer and whiskey.

60 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:46:56pm

re: #52 Ghost of Tom Joad

Creeping Sharia Catholicism! (somebody explain to me how they're different? Yes, this is rhetorical.)

Catholicism is in modern times far less violent, doesn't oppose all music, and doesn't try to force women to wear veils.

61 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:46:56pm

re: #58 Charles Johnson

Jim DeMint Is Resigning: Here Are His 7 Craziest Moments | Mother Jones

That's a lot of crazy for one guy. Lord only knows what he tells his shrink.

62 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:48:29pm

re: #58 Charles Johnson

Jim DeMint Is Resigning: Here Are His 7 Craziest Moments | Mother Jones

"I've said it often and I believe it—the bigger government gets, the smaller God gets."

that's your penis

63 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:50:14pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

That's a lot of crazy for one guy. Lord only knows what he tells his shrink.

How dare you?! Jim DeMint only needs his pastor to work through his problems!!1 Psychiatrists are all part of a left-wing plot to feminize America's men and to convince American women not to stay at home and have children!!11 If you think Jim DeMint should see a psychiatrist, THEN YOU'RE NOT A REAL AMERICAN!!!11

64 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:51:12pm

I do love how DeMint clutches his pearls about "big government" when he's as if not bigger government than the people he decries. This is a man who per Charles link thinks that unwed women and gay people shouldn't be allowed to teach children. And we of course here are familiar with DeMint's famous quote that you can't be a fiscal conservative without being a social one. Earth to Jim Deminted Idiot but social conservatism costs money too and is more intrusive as well.

65 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:51:14pm
66 sagehen  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:52:06pm

re: #15 Ghost of Tom Joad

Does smell fishy. Was there any chance of a Dem stealing that seat if he didn't run? I doubt it.

Sounds like a money grab.

The whackadoodle Senate candidates he endorsed who primaried incumbents... lost to Democrats. He as much as any sitting senator is responsible for R's not taking the majority, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if McConnell is responding with spiteful committee assignments.

67 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:52:19pm

re: #65 Charles Johnson

Definitely the best photo of the year.

Beary cool.

68 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:52:49pm

re: #45 HappyWarrior

Ever wonder how many wealthy got it via inheritance?
I wonder if any of this is accurate..
1. According to a study of Federal Reserve data conducted by NYU professor Edward Wolff, for the nation’s richest 1%, inherited wealth accounted for only 9% of their net worth in 2001, down from 23% in 1989. (The 2001 number was the latest available.)

2. According to a study by Prince & Associates, less than 10% of today’s multi-millionaires cited “inheritance” as their source of wealth.

3. A study by Spectrem Group found that among today’s millionaires, inherited wealth accounted for just 2% of their total sources of wealth.

69 Four More Tears  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:53:28pm

re: #65 Charles Johnson

Definitely the best photo of the year.

Shopped.

/

70 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:53:54pm

re: #69 Four More Tears

Shopped.

/

Nope.

Chuck Testa.

71 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:55:57pm

re: #66 sagehen

The whackadoodle Senate candidates he endorsed who primaried incumbents... lost to Democrats. He as much as any sitting senator is responsible for R's not taking the majority, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if McConnell is responding with spiteful committee assignments.

Yeah he was getting a lot of positive press for his kingmaking ability. Less so now since he's mostly chosen losers. Can't imagine McConnell and the leadership are too happy that Jim's guys and gals have been a big part of why the Republicans have come up short in their quest to retake the Senate and in fact this time even lost seats. The big one that probably stands out is probably the Indiana one. That's one that they should have never lost and they wouldn't have lost it if they hadn't primaried Lugar and replaced him with an imbecile who thinks rape induced pregnancies are a blessing.

72 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:56:45pm

Well, it appears that Twitter is going to insist on being able to totally change the CSS for their embedded tweets at any time, so for now I'm going to stop trying to apply my customized styles that match LGF's fonts and colors. I could figure out their latest styles, but who knows if they'll change it again?

Hopefully they'll document the CSS code and make it easier to modify at some point. For now you'll be seeing the fonts and colors the way Twitter wants you to.

73 darthstar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:57:35pm
74 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:57:39pm

Georgia and Helvetica Neue. Blecch.

75 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:58:06pm

re: #50 Kragar

Bryan Fischer Defends Ban on Women in Combat by Lying about the Israeli Military

Ahem...

76 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:58:48pm

re: #73 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Am I reading that to interpret they may force Boehner out? God I would love for Cantor to get more than he bargains for and then get cannibalized by the same movement he helped to create.

77 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 1:58:54pm

re: #72 Charles Johnson

Well, it appears that Twitter is going to insist on being able to totally change the CSS for their embedded tweets at any time, so for now I'm going to stop trying to apply my customized styles that match LGF's fonts and colors. I could figure out their latest styles, but who knows if they'll change it again?

Hopefully they'll document the CSS code and make it easier to modify at some point. For now you'll be seeing the fonts and colors the way Twitter wants you to.

Those fascists!1 Send 'em to their own gulag!

78 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:00:13pm

re: #75 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Ahem...

[Embedded content]

He loves God too much to be bothered with facts.

79 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:00:50pm

re: #75 watching you tiny alien kittens are

80 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:00:56pm

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

He loves God too much to be bothered with facts.

Too bad God doesn't love him enough back to help him look at the actual facts rather than blow them out of his ass.

81 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:01:00pm

An article worth reading

Jim DeMint and the death of think tanks

To state the obvious, you don’t name Jim DeMint head of your think tank because you’re trying to improve the quality of your scholarship. You name DeMint head of your think tank because you’re trying to become the leader of the conservative wing of the Republican Party.
...
The politicization of Washington’s think tanks long predates DeMint. Tevi Troy, a former member of the George W. Bush administration, put in well in National Affairs:

Washington think tanks have undergone a transformation. Today, while most think tanks continue to serve as homes for some academic-style scholarship regarding public policy, many have also come to play more active (if informal) roles in politics. Some serve as governments-in-waiting for the party out of power, providing professional perches for former officials who hope to be back in office when their party next takes control of the White House or Congress. Some serve as training grounds for young activists. Some serve as unofficial public-relations and rapid-response teams for one of the political parties — providing instant critiques of the opposition’s ideas and public arguments in defense of favored policies.

82 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:02:43pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

An article worth reading

Jim DeMint and the death of think tanks

Good find and very true.

83 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:02:52pm
“At a moment when we have too much noise in politics and too few constructive ideas,” warned Troy, “these institutions may simply become part of the intellectual echo chamber of our politics, rather than providing alternative sources of policy analysis and intellectual innovation.”
84 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:04:04pm

re: #79 Kragar

[Embedded content]

"PC" That's how he describes one of the most successful armed forces in the world? Of course, this is the same cowardly asshole who described a CMOH winner who won his medal in part to saving people as somehow feminizing and delegitimitizing the award. Of course, if Fischer was ever faced in any of the situation that our armed forces or the IDF deal with, he'd shit his pants faster than Ted Nugent because Fischer's just a little coward with a radio show and nothing else.

85 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:05:09pm

re: #65 Charles Johnson

Definitely the best photo of the year.

Aww. he just looks so happy bouncing on that trampoline and the audience is enjoying it too!!

///I know, falling, tranq'd.

86 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:05:55pm

Tell that to the 2000 female snipers the Russians had during WWII.

87 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:07:17pm

re: #68 Political Atheist

Ever wonder how many wealthy got it via inheritance?
I wonder if any of this is accurate..
1. According to a study of Federal Reserve data conducted by NYU professor Edward Wolff, for the nation’s richest 1%, inherited wealth accounted for only 9% of their net worth in 2001, down from 23% in 1989. (The 2001 number was the latest available.)

2. According to a study by Prince & Associates, less than 10% of today’s multi-millionaires cited “inheritance” as their source of wealth.

3. A study by Spectrem Group found that among today’s millionaires, inherited wealth accounted for just 2% of their total sources of wealth.

Doesn't sound accurate. The Waltons alone would skew that. Maybe they're only counting the total they inherited flatly, and not the value it accrued to.

88 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:07:56pm

re: #86 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Tell that to the 2000 female snipers the Russians had during WWII.

Men don't seem so well-designed for combat either. They keep getting hurt and dying and stuff.

89 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:08:02pm

re: #79 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Posted 13 minutes ago in his timeline, too bad he will not retract it on the air.

90 darthstar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:08:14pm

So, three days before I get laid off I get an email out of the blue from an old colleague (it's been 12 years since we worked together) who wants me to come over to his present company and possibly help launch a new division...I wrote back yesterday figuring it wouldn't hurt to 'start the conversation'.

He wants me to come in today, so I'm off to meet him for coffee to see if there's anything there I'm interested in doing.

Cheers, everyone. Play nice.

91 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:09:24pm

re: #88 wrenchwench

Men don't seem so well-designed for combat either. They keep getting hurt and dying and stuff.

Not true. Manskin™ helps prevent bullets from penetrating the body on men.

//

92 KingKenrod  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:09:26pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

And there's this:

But DeMint doesn’t have even one foot in the policy world. He’s a politician who made his mark practicing a particularly hard-edged form of electoral politics: raising money to undermine insufficiently conservative Republicans.

Good riddance, if anyone needed another reason.

93 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:10:22pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

Good find and very true.

The National Post article is a bit long but is worthwhile as well
Devaluing the Think Tank

Although they were becoming increasingly important in prominent policy discussions, think tanks in the 1950s and '60s intentionally kept some distance between themselves and the most heated political debates of the era. They saw it as their role to inform but not quite to advocate — to help clarify policy alternatives, but generally not to choose among them.
...
The Center for American Progress is easily the most thoroughgoing example of what City College of New York professor Andrew Rich has called "marketing think tanks." For these institutions, the balance between original research and public relations is clearly tipped in the direction of the latter. As Rich puts it, these organizations often seem more interested in selling their product than in coming up with new ideas.
...
This can be seen in the rise of the phenomenon of think tanks that, like CAP, create 501(c)(4) affiliates (donations to which are not tax-exempt) to do more political work. Even though these organizations are careful to maintain a "Chinese wall" between the (c)(3) and (c)(4) components that enables them to retain their tax-exempt status, the existence of the more political twin makes the intent of the think tank clear. It is hard to imagine Brookings or AEI, for example, creating a (c)(4) arm, and even harder to imagine exactly what those political arms would advocate, or even what process would enable them to make those decisions.

The emergence of cable-television networks has put further pressure on think tanks to produce more immediate and political products.

It's a fascinating topic. These think tanks drive the political discussion more than most people know. In many ways I think they're possibly more powerful than the parties themselves.

94 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:10:43pm

re: #91 Gus

Not true. Manskin™ helps prevent bullets from penetrating the body on men.

//

Real men are protected from harm by the protective field Jesus generates around true believers.

95 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:11:14pm

re: #88 wrenchwench

Men don't seem so well-designed for combat either. They keep getting hurt and dying and stuff.

So what you're saying is we need androgynous robots to fight our wars. Seriously, how hard is this for Fischer to figure out? There are plenty of women out there who would make better combat soldiers than I would. Ones that know how to fire a weapon accurately, ones that know how to take cover, etc. They're not women soldiers. They're soldiers who happen to be women. Of course, if we were back in 1947 when President Truman desegregated the military, Fischer and his lik would be bitching about that front and center.

96 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:11:28pm

re: #86 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Tell that to the 2000 female snipers the Russians had during WWII.

They were only fighting because of the Godlessness of Communism.

///

97 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:12:24pm

Spanish Republicans had a bit of women combat volunteers in their Civil War. Reading Antony Beevor's history of that civil war and man it's fascinating.

98 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:12:32pm

Fighting Marines are traditionally men therefore all men are capable of being a fighting Marine.

//

99 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:12:33pm

It irks me to see these organizations referred to as "think tanks," especially groups like Heritage that exist for no purpose but propaganda and deceptive pseudo-statistics. They're not "thinking" about anything except how to promote their reactionary ideology.

100 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:13:42pm

re: #92 KingKenrod

And there's this:

Good riddance, if anyone needed another reason.

I'm not so sure if I'm happy to see him leave politics. The motive that I think most people are missing is I don't think he's motivated by money. I think he's going for power and Heritage will get him more influence than he had as a legislator.

101 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:14:47pm

re: #92 KingKenrod

But DeMint doesn’t have even one foot in the policy world. He’s a politician who made his mark practicing a particularly hard-edged form of electoral politics: raising money to undermine insufficiently conservative Republicans.

Good riddance, if anyone needed another reason.

Don't think he wont be still doing that while working for Heritage, he will be.

102 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:16:34pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

It irks me to see these organizations referred to as "think tanks," especially groups like Heritage that exist for no purpose but propaganda and deceptive pseudo-statistics. They're not "thinking" about anything except how to promote their reactionary ideology.

These think tanks were created specifically to confuse the issue; most of their tactics started back with the tobacco companies. What's more, there are genuine, honest think tanks out there that, while being partisan, engage with reality; one of the problems of the think tanks like Heritage is they lead to naive people dismissing anything that's called a 'think tank' simply because so much of what they hear coming out of the right-wing think tanks is pure lies and nonsense.

103 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:16:53pm

re: #98 Gus

Fighting Marines are traditionally men therefore all men are capable of being a fighting Marine.

//

Ipso facto and Res ipsa loquitur!

104 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:17:00pm

re: #90 darthstar

So, three days before I get laid off I get an email out of the blue from an old colleague (it's been 12 years since we worked together) who wants me to come over to his present company and possibly help launch a new division...I wrote back yesterday figuring it wouldn't hurt to 'start the conversation'.

He wants me to come in today, so I'm off to meet him for coffee to see if there's anything there I'm interested in doing.

Cheers, everyone. Play nice.

I'd hate you, except, well, I don't want anyone else going through the long-term mess I've been through. Good luck, may it be a joy.

105 sagehen  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:17:22pm

re: #36 kirkspencer

Fun thing - go through the list of the nation's wealthiest and see how many started on third base. Not all, but the majority.

If you're talking about the Forbes 400... surprisingly enough, it's less than half. But they're the anti-tax crusaders; the self-made either agitate for higher taxes, or describe their political choices as being based on other issues.

Even the right-wingers -- for the hedge-fund billionaires, it's about Dodd-Frank (they liked Obama in 2008). For Sheldon Adelson, it's about unions and Israel and the DOJ's investigating him under the Corrupt Foreign Practices Act. For Foster Frieze and the Chick-fil-a guy it's about abortion and gays.

106 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:17:25pm

E gad, I've agreed with KT twice in one day. Maybe the Mayans were right... //

107 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:17:28pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

It irks me to see these organizations referred to as "think tanks," especially groups like Heritage that exist for no purpose but propaganda and deceptive pseudo-statistics. They're not "thinking" about anything except how to promote their reactionary ideology.

I agree. The article at #93 follows the evolution of the "think tanks" from their intellectual beginnings into what they've become today.

The Center for American Progress is easily the most thoroughgoing example of what City College of New York professor Andrew Rich has called "marketing think tanks." For these institutions, the balance between original research and public relations is clearly tipped in the direction of the latter. As Rich puts it, these organizations often seem more interested in selling their product than in coming up with new ideas. CAP in particular seems to have turned marketing and organizing into an art form. According to a 2008 article by Bloomberg's Edwin Chen, CAP devoted about 40% of its resources to communication and outreach that year, eight times as much as typical liberal policy organizations did. At the time, CAP had a budget of $27 million and claimed 180 staffers, employing about as many full-time bloggers (11) as PPI did scholars. CAP has even been involved in the Occupy Wall Street protests: According to the New York Times, CAP "encouraged and sought to help coordinate protests in different cities"; a spokesman for the center told the Times that "we've definitely been publicizing it and supporting" the movement.

108 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:19:32pm

re: #106 CuriousLurker

E gad, I've agreed with KT twice in one day. Maybe the Mayans were right... //

We'll know by this time next week, right?

109 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:19:42pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

continued

While CAP is the most far-reaching example, the "do tank" model is by no means limited to the left. Republican losses in 2006 and 2008, coupled with CAP's success, have led conservatives to pursue their own more activist think tanks. An aide to former president George W. Bush and to Senator John McCain's presidential campaign, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, recently started the American Action Forum, the very name of which reflects its activist inclinations. According to Congressional Quarterly, Holtz-Eakin felt that existing operations such as AEI and Heritage were " ‘not helpful' during the McCain campaign because they weren't politically engaged or innovative in their media strategies." His new organization hopes to change that dynamic and, as the group's mission statement puts it, "use the modern tools of communications to deploy ideas; engage Americans in the debate over the boundaries of government policy, personal freedoms, and market incentives; and educate and challenge the media to explore these issues and shape the next generation of political leaders." (For the sake of full disclosure, it should be noted that I have lent my name to AAF as an affiliated expert, though I am not paid or supervised by the group in any way.)

These new institutions bear far less resemblance to universities than did the traditional think tanks, and have even drifted from the model of the more advocacy-oriented think tanks of the 1970s, '80s, and '90s.

110 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:20:04pm

re: #86 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Tell that to the 2000 female snipers the Russians had during WWII.

That had a overall higher kill count than their male counterparts, IIRC.

111 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:20:17pm

re: #108 Kragar

We'll know by this time next week, right?

Two weeks, 12/21. LOL

112 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:20:56pm

re: #106 CuriousLurker

E gad, I've agreed with KT twice in one day. Maybe the Mayans were right... //

It's no coincidence that the Mayan calendar ends the day after Troutmas (my birthday).

113 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:21:12pm

re: #90 darthstar

So, three days before I get laid off I get an email out of the blue from an old colleague (it's been 12 years since we worked together) who wants me to come over to his present company and possibly help launch a new division...I wrote back yesterday figuring it wouldn't hurt to 'start the conversation'.

He wants me to come in today, so I'm off to meet him for coffee to see if there's anything there I'm interested in doing.

Cheers, everyone. Play nice.

When you're a good guy (or gal), good things happen.

Good luck.

114 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:21:28pm

re: #68 Political Atheist

Ever wonder how many wealthy got it via inheritance?
I wonder if any of this is accurate..
1. According to a study of Federal Reserve data conducted by NYU professor Edward Wolff, for the nation’s richest 1%, inherited wealth accounted for only 9% of their net worth in 2001, down from 23% in 1989. (The 2001 number was the latest available.)

2. According to a study by Prince & Associates, less than 10% of today’s multi-millionaires cited “inheritance” as their source of wealth.

3. A study by Spectrem Group found that among today’s millionaires, inherited wealth accounted for just 2% of their total sources of wealth.

Let's see. 1 says nothing about where they started. 2 is self-citation, and I ask everyone to recall how Anne Romney told of the financial straits they had to experience, even selling some of Mitt's stock to pay for college. 3, like one, says nothing of their starting point.

As the philosopher said, it's a lot easier to earn your second million. So the question I asked stands: how many of the current 1% started as children of the top -- 1%, 2%, or 5%?

115 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:21:40pm

re: #110 TedStriker

That had a overall higher kill count than their male counterparts, IIRC.

No, they had a higher average number of kills. There were far more male than female snipers, so the men had a higher overall body count just because of that.

Love to stay on this topic, but gotta go.

116 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:22:48pm

re: #93 Killgore Trout

The National Post article is a bit long but is worthwhile as well
Devaluing the Think Tank

It's a fascinating topic. These think tanks drive the political discussion more than most people know. In many ways I think they're possibly more powerful than the parties themselves.

Like I said over at the page on this, DeMint is merely moving to setting Republican policy rather than implementing it.

117 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:23:12pm

I have heard some people say that women make better snipers than men. I could never be a sniper or even a regular marksman. Damn you ADHD and general restlessness.

118 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:23:53pm

re: #117 HappyWarrior

I have heard some people say that women make better snipers than men. I could never be a sniper or even a regular marksman. Damn you ADHD and general restlessness.

Could I interest you in being the Squad Automatic Rifleman?

119 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:24:01pm

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

No, they had a higher average number of kills. There were far more male than female snipers, so the men had a higher overall body count just because of that.

Love to stay on this topic, but gotta go.

I guess that's what I really meant...higher average per person for the ladies, not overall.

120 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:24:39pm

re: #118 Kragar

Could I interest you in being the Squad Automatic Rifleman?

I want to be company bartender :).

121 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:26:14pm

re: #93 Killgore Trout

The National Post article is a bit long but is worthwhile as well
Devaluing the Think Tank

It's a fascinating topic. These think tanks drive the political discussion more than most people know. In many ways I think they're possibly more powerful than the parties themselves.

Hah. And National Affairs, the place you're quoting from uncritically, is a wingnut journal whose editor is also a Weekly Standard editor.

It's so funny watching you fall for shit like that over and over.

122 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:29:15pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

It irks me to see these organizations referred to as "think tanks," especially groups like Heritage that exist for no purpose but propaganda and deceptive pseudo-statistics. They're not "thinking" about anything except how to promote their reactionary ideology.

Exactly. They're organizations meant to create and put forth propaganda.

123 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:34:46pm

re: #122 Henchman Ghazi-808

Exactly. They're organizations meant to create and put forth propaganda.

There are think tanks who actually do want to educate, rather than propagandize. There's an enormous difference between, say, the Johns Hopkins Institute for Policy Studies and, say, the "Ethics and Public Policy Center", where the editor of the National Affairs article that Killgore is infatuated at works. The latter self-describes as:

Founded in 1976, the Ethics and Public Policy Center is Washington, D.C.'s premier institute dedicated to applying the Judeo-Christian moral tradition to critical issues of public policy.

As with anything, just because something is called a 'think tank' it shouldn't gain or lose any credibility; it should be judged on its output.

124 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:38:19pm

re: #123 Obdicut

There are think tanks who actually do want to educate, rather than propagandize. There's an enormous difference between, say, the Johns Hopkins Institute for Policy studies and, say, the "Ethics and Public Policy Center", where the editor of the National Affairs article that Killgore is infatuated at works. The latter self-describes as:

As with anything, just because something is called a 'think tank' it shouldn't gain or lose any credibility; it should be judged on its output.

Yes, I misspoke. Heritage may have started as a real 'think tank' but it's now a propaganda organization.

125 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:40:36pm

re: #124 Henchman Ghazi-808

Yes, I misspoke. Heritage may have started as a real 'think tank' but it's now a propaganda organization.

I dunno. Maybe it's always been propaganda. I don't know much about the history of Heritage.

I think the original usage for 'think tanks' was for industry, for places like Xerox PARC, but I'm not sure. I think the political/policy type came after the scientific type.

126 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:42:00pm

Fischer shows his culturally sensitive side...NOT.

Stupid bastard got the reply he deserved. :(

127 Kronocide  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:42:17pm

re: #86 Kragar

Women aren't designed for combat: they're for making food and babies, and house cleanins.

128 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:42:18pm

re: #125 Obdicut

I dunno. Maybe it's always been propaganda. I don't know much about the history of Heritage.

I think the original usage for 'think tanks' was for industry, for places like Xerox PARC, but I'm not sure. I think the political/policy type came after the scientific type.

RAND Corporation is one of the original "think tanks", IIRC.

129 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:43:21pm

If I recall. Heritage was funded heavily by Joseph Coors of Coors Beer fame.

130 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:43:21pm

re: #127 Henchman Ghazi-808

Women aren't designed for combat: they're for making food and babies, and house cleanins.

Making sammiches for their menfolk.

131 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:45:47pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

If I recall. Heritage was funded heavily by Joseph Coors of Coors Beer fame.

Indeed:

The Heritage Foundation was founded in 1973 by Paul Weyrich, Edwin Feulner and Joseph Coors.[5] Growing out of discontent with Richard Nixon's embrace of the "liberal consensus" and the nonpolemical, cautious nature of existing think tanks,[6] Weyrich and Feulner sought to create an organization that would supply policymakers with concise, timely position papers. With $200,000 from Coors, the Analysis and Research Association was created in 1970. New supporters and board members joined, including petroleum executive Edward Noble and Richard Mellon Scaife. Eventually, the organization split into a public interest law center and a separate public policy foundation, the latter of which was incorporated as The Heritage Foundation on February 16, 1973. Weyrich was its first president. Later, under president Frank J. Walton, the Heritage Foundation introduced using direct mail fundraising and Heritage's annual income grew to $1 million per year in 1976.[7]

132 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:46:07pm

re: #126 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Fischer shows his culturally sensitive side...NOT.

[Embedded content]

Stupid bastard got the reply he deserved. :(

When there are government funded programs dedicated to wiping out Christianity by separating children from their families and bringing them up in a manner designed to wipe out as much of their cultural heritage as possible, call me.

133 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:47:36pm

re: #124 Henchman Ghazi-808

Yes, I misspoke. Heritage may have started as a real 'think tank' but it's now a propaganda organization.

According to the National Affairs article heritage founded many of the troublesome practices later adopted by other think tanks

It was frustration with this studied aloofness that eventually ushered in the age of more activist think tanks, beginning especially on the right. In his book The Power of Ideas, Heritage Foundation fellow Lee Edwards describes a pivotal moment in this evolution when, in 1971, AEI produced a study of the benefits and drawbacks of the supersonic transport aircraft that Congress was considering funding for the Pentagon. The study was delivered to congressional offices a few days after the Senate had defeated funding for the project in a close 51-46 vote. After receiving the apparently tardy report, Paul Weyrich — then an aide to Colorado Republican senator Gordon Allott — called AEI president William Baroody to ask why the helpful analysis could not have been available before the vote. Baroody's response, according to Edwards, was that AEI "didn't want to try to affect the outcome of the vote."

Baroody's answer shocked Weyrich and his fellow congressional staffer Ed Feulner, who wondered what the purpose of such research was if not to affect the outcome of exactly that sort of vote. Weyrich and Feulner hatched the notion of a new think tank that would see as its mission the development of serious policy research to advance a broadly conservative agenda. Encouraged by Nixon White House staffer Lyn Nofziger, they began the work that would, in 1973, result in the creation of the Heritage Foundation.

RESEARCH IN ACTION

Heritage was a different breed of think tank, and augured the new direction in which such institutions were headed. A far cry from its avowedly hands-off predecessors, Heritage tried explicitly to "formulate and promote conservative public policies," as the organization's mission statement put it. It sought not only to serve as a source of basic research and analysis but also to help drive the agenda on behalf of conservatives around the country. To that end, Heritage pursued direct-mail fundraising, a tactic more typical of political campaigns and mostly unheard of among think tanks at the time. It rightly considered itself as much an organ of the conservative movement as of the Washington intellectual world.

134 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:49:42pm

re: #87 Obdicut

Doesn't sound accurate. The Waltons alone would skew that. Maybe they're only counting the total they inherited flatly, and not the value it accrued to.

Maybe. Did some digging and found this...

PDF link to Bureau of Labor Stats paper

New York University economist Edward Wolff has done the best work I’ve seen on the contribution of inheritance to wealth inequality, and his latest paper, coauthored with the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Maury Gittleman, is chock full of relevant data on the matter. In 2007, the last year Wolff and Gittleman look at, wealth transfers (mainly inheritances, but also including gifts) made up, on average, 14.7 percent of the total wealth of the 1 percent (more specifically, the top 1 percent in terms of wealth). Interestingly, inheritance’s share has declined over time. In 1992, 27 percent of the wealth of the top 1 percent came from wealth transfers.

135 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:50:53pm

re: #112 Killgore Trout

It's no coincidence that the Mayan calendar ends the day after Troutmas (my birthday).

See? I knew it had to be a bad omen. //

136 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:51:23pm

re: #134 Political Atheist

Yeah, but again: is it counting, say, the entire value of Walton's shares now, or just when they inherited them? That's the point I'm making.

137 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:52:22pm

re: #135 CuriousLurker
Guess why December 22nd is going to be the official "point and laugh day"?

First one since Jan 1st 2000.

138 Stephen T.  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:53:01pm

re: #36 kirkspencer

Fun thing - go through the list of the nation's wealthiest and see how many started on third base. Not all, but the majority.

It is interesting to note that those that didn't get their start on third base some of them are progressive rather than conservative. I'm looking at you Bill Gates.

139 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:55:01pm

re: #137 Political Atheist

Guess why December 22nd is going to be the official "point and laugh day"?

First one since Jan 1st 2000.

Yeah, but if they're right who will eat crow then!

//

140 HappyWarrior  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:56:14pm

Doom prophecies as old if not older than civilization itself. That's human nature for you. There are always gonna be those who want to see doom at every corner.

141 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:57:10pm

re: #137 Political Atheist

Guess why December 22nd is going to be the official "point and laugh day"?

First one since Jan 1st 2000.

Well at least Jan 1st 2000 had some basis in fact. The Millennium bug was a real (but easily fixed) problem that got blown way out of proportion. The Mayan calender ending, not so much.

142 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 2:57:53pm

re: #140 HappyWarrior

Doom prophecies as old if not older than civilization itself. That's human nature for you. There are always gonna be those who want to see doom at every corner.

Let us rain some doom.

143 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:01:54pm

re: #132 Targetpractice

When there are government funded programs dedicated to wiping out Christianity by separating children from their families and bringing them up in a manner designed to wipe out as much of their cultural heritage as possible, call me.

Christian Churches in the national park system...

[Link: www.nps.gov...]
[Link: www.nps.gov...]
[Link: www.old-swedes.org...]
[Link: www.nps.gov...]

What was that about the government not preserving christian sites?

144 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:04:14pm

re: #143 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Christian Churches in the national park system...

[Link: www.nps.gov...]
[Link: www.nps.gov...]
[Link: www.old-swedes.org...]
[Link: www.nps.gov...]

What was that about the government not preserving christian sites?

But every Church should be a heritage site!!!
/

145 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:05:04pm

re: #136 Obdicut

Yeah, but again: is it counting, say, the entire value of Walton's shares now, or just when they inherited them? That's the point I'm making.

It's more fuzzy than that.
Either way inherited wealth as a % is declining if the numbers shown were right.

If I inherit money, and invest it with some luck and double the money in a few years, half my wealth is inherited.


If I got the same value as inherited shares of a corporation and the shares go up.... It's all inherited. Unless i helped the stock go up via management decisions as a CEO or CFO.

Have you (or anyone reading) got any links showing studies how much of our 1%ers wealth is inherited? I see the claim of "most" asserted but no hard data.

146 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:09:27pm

Look who's writing for the National Review now on climate change: Christopher Monckton.

Frequent guest on Alex Jones, marketer of quack therapies, Birther, all-around fraud Christopher Monckton.

147 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:12:05pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

The rumor going around is that he was banned last night from the UNFCCC meeting after some shenanigans :

If so, that will be fuel for the wingnuts' fire about conspiracy theories.

148 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:12:08pm

Prepare yourself for wailing and gnashing of teeth:

Rep. Cole breaks with GOP: Middle-class tax cuts ‘a victory for common sense’

149 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:12:09pm

re: #140 HappyWarrior

Doom prophecies as old if not older than civilization itself. That's human nature for you. There are always gonna be those who want to see doom at every corner.

can i get some gloom with that?

150 BongCrodny  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:13:02pm

re: #140 HappyWarrior

Doom prophecies as old if not older than civilization itself. That's human nature for you. There are always gonna be those who want to see doom at every corner.

Yeah, but they only have to be right once.

151 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:15:01pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Look who's writing for the National Review now on climate change: Christopher Monckton.

Frequent guest on Alex Jones, marketer of quack therapies, Birther, all-around fraud Christopher Monckton.

. . . the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow, which does not believe warmer weather is a bad thing or that humans are somehow causing climate cataclysms . . .

"Somehow". As if no one has ever suggested a mechanism for global warming.

152 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:16:53pm

re: #148 Kragar

Prepare yourself for wailing and gnashing of teeth:

Rep. Cole breaks with GOP: Middle-class tax cuts ‘a victory for common sense’

There's method to his madness. Take middle class tax cuts off the table and the whole thing starts to lean towards the GOP. Not enough that they could get the American people to sign onto granny-starving and kicking poor folks, but it allows them a bit of breathing room to hammer Obama more for "entitlement reform."

153 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:17:02pm

re: #147 freetoken

Yes, he apparently sat down in a seat reserved for someone else, switched on the mic, and started ranting about "no global warming for 16 years."

154 kirkspencer  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:17:03pm

re: #145 Political Atheist

It's more fuzzy than that.
Either way inherited wealth as a % is declining if the numbers shown were right.

If I inherit money, and invest it with some luck and double the money in a few years, half my wealth is inherited.

If I got the same value as inherited shares of a corporation and the shares go up.... It's all inherited. Unless i helped the stock go up via management decisions as a CEO or CFO.

Have you (or anyone reading) got any links showing studies how much of our 1%ers wealth is inherited? I see the claim of "most" asserted but no hard data.

Social mobility is the actual study stuff. The problem is that a full study needs two full generations, so anyone born after 1970 or so is too young.

That said, see this NYT article. It references five studies that show that social mobility in the US is lower than it is in Europe. Of particular relevance is Miles Corak's study which showed that 26 percent of males raised in the top 10% stayed in the top 10% when considering generations born prior to 1970.

Some of his reports - and I don't have them handy so cannot cite them - indicate that over 80% of the current top 1% were raised in the top quintile and more than 50% came from the top 10%. Not definitively, just indicative at this point.

155 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:18:13pm

Republicans start process of moving forward after election defeat

although most likely it will really just be backwards in a slightly different direction

156 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:19:05pm

re: #153 Charles Johnson

Yes, he apparently sat down in a seat reserved for someone else, switched on the mic, and started ranting about "no global warming for 16 years."

Thats called "pulling a Breitbart", just show up and start ranting.

157 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:20:19pm

re: #155 engineer cat

Republicans start process of moving forward after election defeat

although most likely it will really just be backwards in a slightly different direction

Fark headline?

Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio lay out vision for the "new and improved" GOP: exactly the same as the old GOP, only with fresh new buzzwords

158 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:20:27pm

re: #145 Political Atheist

If I inherit money, and invest it with some luck and double the money in a few years, half my wealth is inherited.

The money you were given made more money. No matter how you parse it the opportunity itself is the result of inheritance. Any capitalization you perform fundamentally owes the inheritance for its existence.

159 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:20:33pm

DeMint Opposed Disabilities Treaty Because The U.N. Wants Palestine To Be A State

Appearing on CNN just hours after announcing his pending resignation from the Senate, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) summed up his reason for voting against the U.N.’s Convention on the Rights of People with Disability (CRPD). The Tea Party lawmaker complained that members of the international body voted to upgrade Palestine’s status within its halls and explained that he couldn’t trust the U.N. or the treaty:

What a fucking cockbag.

160 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:21:40pm

re: #156 Kragar

Thats called "pulling a Breitbart", just show up and start ranting.

Is that sort of like "pulling a Howard Stern"?

161 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:23:24pm

Nothing illustrates the right's deranged climate change denial better than their embrace of a hoary old fraud like Monckton.

162 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:23:59pm

re: #160 Targetpractice

Is that sort of like "pulling a Howard Stern"?

No, Stern breaks in and talks about boobs. Completely different.

163 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:25:37pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Look who's writing for the National Review now on climate change: Christopher Monckton.

Frequent guest on Alex Jones, marketer of quack therapies, Birther, all-around fraud Christopher Monckton.

Do you mean "Lord" Monckton?

///

164 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:26:18pm

re: #145 Political Atheist

If I inherit money, and invest it with some luck and double the money in a few years, half my wealth is inherited.

Yeah, which is why this is a useless measurement. Other people don't get the chance to make wealth like that. Inheriting large amounts of money allows people to engage in speculation, unlike ordinary schlubs.

The Waltons are rich because they inherited money. They may have done successfully after that, but we have no idea if they could have succeeded on their own.

That's why I think people who are mega-rich should not leave a ton to their kids. They have no shot at a normal life or really feeling confident in their own abilities. Of course, I think people who are mega-rich should found a bunch of universities and shit with the money; I don't understand people who just have a ton of money in stock and stuff and don't want to actually do something with it.

165 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:27:38pm

‘Fire Boehner’ Crowd Feeling The Love From Jim DeMint

What Limbaugh and DeMint were joking about was the so-called conservative purge, a move by Boehner to strip committee assignments from four members in the 113th Congress after they bucked Republican leadership in the 112th.

Boehner’s defended the demotions as having “nothing to do with ideology,” claiming he made the changes to punish disloyalty. But that hasn’t stopped some tea party conservatives from spooling up the full grassroots right wing machinery against him, including claims of conspiracy and attempts to depose him.

Over at Breitbart, there are reports of a “a secret criteria list” used by Boehner and the House leadership to run the purge. Conservative groups are livid, and they’re trying to use the tea party playbook to punish Boehner.

American Majority Action, a conservative group that boasts around 30,000 members on its email list, is calling on 16 House Republicans to either vote against or abstain from the vote making Boehner speaker in the next Congress.

“The House rules demand that a Speaker receive a majority — 218 votes — to be elected speaker. If no nominee for speaker receives 218, the House remains speakerless — as it did during parts of the Civil War,” Ned Ryun, American Majority Action president and son of former Rep. Jim Ryun (R-KS), wrote on the group’s website. “If 16 House Republicans were to abstain from voting for Speaker, Boehner would only receive 217 votes.”

166 3eff Jeff  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:28:17pm

re: #145 Political Atheist

It's more fuzzy than that.
Either way inherited wealth as a % is declining if the numbers shown were right.

If I inherit money, and invest it with some luck and double the money in a few years, half my wealth is inherited.

If I got the same value as inherited shares of a corporation and the shares go up.... It's all inherited. Unless i helped the stock go up via management decisions as a CEO or CFO.

Have you (or anyone reading) got any links showing studies how much of our 1%ers wealth is inherited? I see the claim of "most" asserted but no hard data.

I think a more interesting question is "how much of a leg up did each member of the 1% have"? For instance, Donald Trump seems to have made a big go of making a small fortune out of a large one. Mitt Romney had $400,000 (2012 dollars) of AMC stock to get him through his college years. Bill Gates' father, William H. Gates II, is a very wealthy retired Lawyer.

If I'd been able to start with an extra half-million in help from my father, I'd own a house right now and have more money than I do now (as it is, I'm 30 and just about to have put together enough for a down payment). But, even without that, I still had a ton of help getting through college. I only ended up with $20k of debt and I didn't have to work my way through college. They were some austere years, but I didn't have to work, which is a huge help (and thanks to my father). That's allowed me to be up somewhere in the 80th percentile of household income (having a professional wife helps as well).

If I had had to work through college, I don't know where I'd be right now. Not nearly as well off. I have a deep respect for people who work through college. I do not know how they manage.

So, my rambling point is, it seems better questions might, how much of a lever were the members of the 1% bequeathed by birth to get there? How many came from an already successful and wealthy family? What percentile were their parents might be a more revealing.

(Looks like Kirk and Obdi beat me to parts of this post, but adding my voice anyway.)

167 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:28:59pm

re: #165 Kragar

‘Fire Boehner’ Crowd Feeling The Love From Jim DeMint

That would be utterly ironic, wouldn't it? John of Orange, in trying to look "tough" against Obama by refusing to raise tax rates, might instead set his own ass up to lose the speakership because he actually suggested that the rich pay more?

168 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:33:03pm

re: #158 goddamnedfrank

That may or may not be the way to look at it from a comparison of inherited vs made money. Why would a guy that starts a business with his inheritance not count that companies profits as money he made with his efforts rather than ascribing every cent to inheritance?

Why deny a capable person the credit for the financial gain? We sure do blame a fool for wasting it or losing it. Inheritance of course is far more common than the 1%ers. Lots of us inherit humble dwellings or small estates. If I get a loan on that little inherited house and start a great franchise that makes millions is 100% of my wealth inherited? I would say not.

169 efuseakay  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:34:01pm

As per ABC World News. Syria prepping chemical weapons. Ugh.

170 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:34:27pm

Inhofe posted his video at Youtube, the one that was played at the Monckton presser at the UNFCCC, and since the presser video itself may never get posted, here is your chance to the Inhofe section - lucky you!


"One man truth squad"!!

171 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:35:19pm

re: #148 Kragar

Prepare yourself for wailing and gnashing of teeth:

Rep. Cole breaks with GOP: Middle-class tax cuts ‘a victory for common sense’

How dare he think for himself and worse than that even, express those opinions. This is going to get him into real trouble with party boss Limbaugh.

///

172 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:35:38pm

CLIMATEGATE!!!

173 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:36:05pm
174 3eff Jeff  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:39:01pm

re: #168 Political Atheist

That may or may not be the way to look at it from a comparison of inherited vs made money. Why would a guy that starts a business with his inheritance not count that companies profits as money he made with his efforts rather than ascribing every cent to inheritance?

Why deny a capable person the credit for the financial gain? We sure do blame a fool for wasting it or losing it. Inheritance of course is far more common than the 1%ers. Lots of us inherit humble dwellings or small estates. If I get a loan on that little inherited house and start a great franchise that makes millions is 100% of my wealth inherited? I would say not.

This goes back to why the "borrow $20k from your folks" line was so dumb. Maybe 100% isn't inherited, but that guy started much higher up the ladder, and shouldn't be ranting about how he's a self-made man. Because he isn't. Daddy made the money for the initial investment, and that made the later success much easier to achieve.

This is not to say he didn't work to make that business; just that he had an extra advantage and opportunity that I didn't. And that's what we're really trying to measure. How much had Daddy's money to work with and how many are really there because of only their own efforts (because a lot of former make noises that they are the latter, and that's the bit that galls).

175 3eff Jeff  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:41:02pm

re: #173 Kragar

Image: uJPcer--b0OMe9AdsK7Nqg2.png

/head desk

Bible must be wrong too, then. No way the earth can be 6000 years old if we're only in 2012.

176 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:43:02pm

Being a US Senator has long been cherished as one of the most senior of political offices and Senators have long wielded significant influence in our society.

That DeMint would drop out of the Senate, mid-term, says something.

Apparently the Heritage Foundation is more important.

I wonder what that really says?

177 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:43:19pm

re: #175 3eff Jeff

Bible must be wrong too, then. No way the earth can be 6000 years old if we're only in 2012.

I know, right?

178 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:44:21pm

re: #177 Kragar

I thought it was the year 5773?

179 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:46:04pm

re: #178 freetoken

I thought it was the year 5773?

Its the year 39 KR.

180 3eff Jeff  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:46:05pm

re: #178 freetoken

I thought it was the year 5773?

I don't know what Commie calendar you're using. Mine says 2012. Does seem kind of random for the Mayans to pick that number for the end of the world. You think they'd have gone with 2000 or 2001 or something.

181 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:47:27pm

re: #174 3eff Jeff

I grew up with two PhDs for parents, surrounded by books, and it's impossible not to see what a privilege that was for me. It's really important to remember how much you were given to help you get where you got.

182 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:47:37pm

FWIW, I don't think it's all about the $$ for DeMint, though it's undoubtedly a welcome plus. He's a true believer and I think someone has convinced him that he can effect more change by working for Heritage.

As has been said by several people here, the religious right isn't going to give up. They've had a taste of power and they came within inches of getting their hands on the brass ring. They're regrouping.

First off, tell us three critical things we should know about The Family?

Jeff Sharlet: The Family is the oldest and arguably most influential religious conservative organization in Washington, a “brotherhood” comprised mostly of politicians such as Senator Jim Inhofe, Senator Tom Coburn, Senator Sam Brownback, Senator Jim DeMint, and, now infamously, Senator John Ensign, Governor Mark Sanford, and former congressman Chip Pickering, all of whom turned to The Family to help cover up sex scandals this past summer. The reason you may not have heard about the group is that it doesn’t want you to hear about it—“the more invisible you can make your organization,” preaches leader Doug Coe, “the more influence it will have.” They’re not the only group in Washington that keeps a low profile, but it’s the nature of their influence that’s really noteworthy: some congressmen call it simply personal and thus private, but nearly 600 boxes of documents stored at the Billy Graham Center Archive reveals decades of intense political work around foreign and economic affairs.

Keep in mind that DeMint has a degree in business in 1981 and worked in market research. The DeMint Group, the company he founded in 1983 and left in 1998 when he joined Congress, was a marketing research firm. I think they're going to try to rebrand themselves and they'll do it with the help of focus groups, professional behaviorists/psychologists, lobbyists, and advertising & marketing firms.

Be on the lookout for new, slicker, more sophisticated framing & talking points, and keep an eye on DeMint's pals in Congress as well as the junior/freshman members he has supported & helped get elected, like Rubio and Cruz (the latter being, as you know, a full metal wingnut endorsed by Dave Barton and loved by the TP).

183 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:49:52pm

re: #168 Political Atheist

That may or may not be the way to look at it from a comparison of inherited vs made money. Why would a guy that starts a business with his inheritance not count that companies profits as money he made with his efforts rather than ascribing every cent to inheritance?

I'm saying that the opportunity itself wouldn't exist without the inheritance. Sure the guy's efforts went into building the business, but in most cases so did his employee's efforts and a lot of other factors like infrastructure. Financial success doesn't spring forth solely from individual effort, it relies on starting conditions and environment. It's intrinsically socio-logical. What I see in this country is a ton of undeserved ego worship, rich people who were given a crucial leg up deluding themselves into believing that "they built that."

184 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:50:13pm

re: #173 Kragar

Image: uJPcer--b0OMe9AdsK7Nqg2.png

/head desk

well if we do it scientifically then the year would be about 0x12A05F200 thankyewverrymuch

185 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:52:48pm

re: #90 darthstar

So, three days before I get laid off I get an email out of the blue from an old colleague (it's been 12 years since we worked together) who wants me to come over to his present company and possibly help launch a new division...I wrote back yesterday figuring it wouldn't hurt to 'start the conversation'.

He wants me to come in today, so I'm off to meet him for coffee to see if there's anything there I'm interested in doing.

Cheers, everyone. Play nice.

Good luck.

186 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:53:35pm

re: #183 goddamnedfrank

Seems a story of opposite perceptions. The critics want to ascribe nothing to the skills or efforts of business owners or CEO's, and too often they want to take all the credit. Neither position has much merit.

187 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:54:19pm

re: #183 goddamnedfrank

I'm saying that the opportunity itself wouldn't exist without the inheritance. Sure the guy's efforts went into building the business, but in most cases so did his employee's efforts and a lot of other factors like infrastructure. Financial success doesn't spring forth solely from individual effort, it relies on starting conditions and environment. It's intrinsically socio-logical. What I see in this country is a ton of undeserved ego worship, rich people who were given a crucial leg up deluding themselves into believing that "they built that."

and i resent it when self appointed 'job creators' demand that we thank them for the existence of jobs

apparently without their golden posteriors all of us employees would all be wandering around in an ignorant daze, unable to figure out the process of offering our services for compensation

188 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:55:31pm

re: #183 goddamnedfrank

I'm saying that the opportunity itself wouldn't exist without the inheritance. Sure the guy's efforts went into building the business, but in most cases so did his employee's efforts and a lot of other factors like infrastructure. Financial success doesn't spring forth solely from individual effort, it relies on starting conditions and environment. It's intrinsically socio-logical. What I see in this country is a ton of undeserved ego worship, rich people who were given a crucial leg up deluding themselves into believing that "they built that."

there is no 'i' in team, but there is a giant, overwhelming 'I' in WINGNUT

190 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:56:47pm

re: #189 Gus

Mitch McConnell Filibuster His Own Bill

[Embedded content]

Exhibit A in the case for filibuster reform.

191 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:58:03pm

The news out of Michigan is disturbing. The American peoples inability to get compromise from the GOP scares the shit out me.

192 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:58:41pm

re: #178 freetoken

I thought it was the year 5773?

2765 A.U.C. (from the founding of Rome)

193 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:59:11pm

re: #190 Targetpractice

Exhibit A in the case for filibuster reform.

They've become the party of no to themselves.

194 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 3:59:58pm

re: #175 3eff Jeff

Bible must be wrong too, then. No way the earth can be 6000 years old if we're only in 2012.

The bible never says any such thing, it never refers to the age of the earth at all, when someone says "Well the bible says..." just tell them "No it doesn't."

Bishop Ussher sat down in 1654 and guessed at and then added up how much time he thought was between each listed biblical generation from all the "and so-in-so beget so-in-so's" in Genesis and decided that the earth was created in 4004 B.C.

Remember that according to the bible these people lived for hundreds and hundreds of years back then, so someone might have had a child when they were 17 or it could have been when they were 700, the bible does not say.

Bishop Usshers number is nothing but a guess, and rather a wild assed one at that. It did not come from long research to arrive at an "informed opinion" as some claim nor did he ever claim that it came from any spiritual revelation.

It simply become tradition for the church to agree that the number was "somewhere in that area" and leave it at that. Now modern day young earthers are trying to turn it into some kind of holy dogma, why? Because their beliefs have no support in the bible at all.

195 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:00:01pm

re: #186 Political Atheist

Seems a story of opposite perceptions. The critics want to ascribe nothing to the skills or efforts of business owners or CEO's, and too often they want to take all the credit. Neither position has much merit.

No, I don't see any critics doing that. Who do you see doing that?

196 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:00:31pm

Hey if the right wingers can just make up names and titles perhaps its time we fight back!

Charles shall henceforth be known as Dr. Charles Johnson III

197 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:01:07pm

I used to draw subdivision plats way back. Part of the certificate would include the date as in "20__ A.D." They had "A.D." as a standard. I used to always drop that.

198 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:01:08pm

re: #194 watching you tiny alien kittens are

The bible never says any such thing, it never refers to the age of the earth at all, when someone says "Well the bible says..." just tell them "No it doesn't."

Bishop Ussher sat down in 1654 and guessed at and then added up how much time he thought was between each listed biblical generation from all the "and so-in-so beget so-in-so's" in Genesis and decided that the earth was created in 4004 B.C.

Remember that according to the bible these people lived for hundreds and hundreds of years back then, so someone might have had a child when they were 17 or it could have been when they were 700, the bible does not say.

Bishop Usshers number is nothing but a guess, and rather a wild assed one at that. It did not come from long research to arrive at an "informed opinion" as some claim nor did he ever claim that it came from any spiritual revelation.

It simply become tradition for the church to agree that the number was "somewhere in that area" and leave it at that. Now modern day young earthers are trying to turn it into some kind of holy dogma, why? Because their beliefs have no support in the bible at all.

I've always thought the "BC/AD" year naming conventions were a bit of an odd choice.

199 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:01:11pm

re: #194 watching you tiny alien kittens are

The literalists use the genealogies to date "Adam".

200 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:01:32pm

re: #193 Gus

They've become the party of no to themselves.

It's an absolute joke. He puts up the bill, thinking that no Democrats would dare vote for it. Instead, Reid drums up enough support to pass it on a simple majority basis, so McConnell skitters back and declares that he never intended it to pass by a simple majority vote.

Brian Breutler over at TPM thinks that there might be some mad genius behind it, that McConnell now knows he could put forward the same bill come January, in response to the debt ceiling bit, and be assured that Democrats alone will pass it. Thus putting all the pressure to make a deal on Boehner.

201 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:01:37pm

re: #197 Gus

I used to draw subdivision plats way back. Part of the certificate would include the date as in "20__ A.D." They had "A.D." as a standard. I used to always drop that.

Common scientific standard is CE and BCE yes?

202 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:01:53pm

re: #184 engineer cat

well if we do it scientifically then the year would be about 0x12A05F200 thankyewverrymuch

We could just use the Imperial Dating system adjusted for Geologic time scales

Making right now 00928012.M3.G14

203 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:02:01pm

re: #196 dragonfire1981

Hey if the right wingers can just make up names and titles perhaps its time we fight back!

Charles shall henceforth be known as Dr. Charles Johnson III

Just call me Lord Humungus.

//

204 3eff Jeff  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:02:14pm

re: #186 Political Atheist

Seems a story of opposite perceptions. The critics want to ascribe nothing to the skills or efforts of business owners or CEO's, and too often they want to take all the credit. Neither position has much merit.

And how did I argue for something different? People who inherit have a huge head start. Some larger than others, some do better than others (for instance, Donald Trump seems particularly adept at not losing all of his money). The don't owe nobody nothin' attitude is part of the problem here, and what has all of us worked up.

205 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:02:38pm

re: #201 dragonfire1981

Common scientific standard is CE and BCE yes?

I thought it was CE.

206 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:03:08pm
207 3eff Jeff  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:03:16pm

re: #194 watching you tiny alien kittens are

The bible never says any such thing, it never refers to the age of the earth at all, when someone says "Well the bible says..." just tell them "No it doesn't."

Bishop Ussher sat down in 1654 and guessed at and then added up how much time he thought was between each listed biblical generation from all the "and so-in-so beget so-in-so's" in Genesis and decided that the earth was created in 4004 B.C.

Remember that according to the bible these people lived for hundreds and hundreds of years back then, so someone might have had a child when they were 17 or it could have been when they were 700, the bible does not say.

Bishop Usshers number is nothing but a guess, and rather a wild assed one at that. It did not come from long research to arrive at an "informed opinion" as some claim nor did he ever claim that it came from any spiritual revelation.

It simply become tradition for the church to agree that the number was "somewhere in that area" and leave it at that. Now modern day young earthers are trying to turn it into some kind of holy dogma, why? Because their beliefs have no support in the bible at all.

Allow me to amend my prior post:

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

EDIT: You were one of my updings on that one. Of course the Bible doesn't say any such thing. Enjoy your rant. :)

208 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:03:22pm

I don't know. It's 2012. That works for me.

209 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:05:09pm

re: #198 dragonfire1981

I've always thought the "BC/AD" year naming conventions were a bit of an odd choice.

for the purposes of us jewish persons in religious contexts there is a standard substitution of BCE/CE, interpreted as Before the Common Era and Common Era, but using the same numbers

210 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:05:19pm

Atheist Cadet quits West Point over religious pressure

A cadet quitting West Point less than six months before graduation says he could no longer be part of a culture that promotes prayers and religious activities and disrespects nonreligious cadets.

Blake Page announced his decision to quit the U.S. Military Academy this week in a much-discussed online post that echoed the sentiments of soldiers and airmen at other military installations. The 24-year-old told The Associated Press that a determination this semester that he could not become an officer because of clinical depression played a role in his public protest against what he calls the unconstitutional prevalence of religion in the military.

"I've been trying since I found that out: What can I do? What can I possibly do to initiate the change that I want to see and so many other people want to see?" Page said. "I realized that this is one way I can make that change happen."

Page criticized a culture where cadets stand silently for prayers, where nonreligious cadets were jokingly called "heathens" by instructors at basic training and where one officer told him he'd never be a leader until he filled the hole in his heart. In announcing his resignation this week on The Huffington Post, he denounced "criminals" in the military who violate the oaths they swore to defend the Constitution.

"I don't want to be a part of West Point knowing that the leadership here is OK with just shrugging off and shirking off respect and good order and discipline and obeying the law and defending the Constitution and doing their job," he told the AP.

West Point officials on Wednesday disputed those assertions. Spokeswoman Theresa Brinkerhoff said prayer is voluntary at events where invocations and benedictions are conducted and noted the academy has a Secular Student Alliance club, where Page served as president.

Maj. Nicholas Utzig, the faculty adviser to the secular club, said he doesn't doubt some of the moments Page described, but he doesn't believe there is systematic discrimination against nonreligious cadets.

"I think it represents his own personal experience and perhaps it might not be as universal as he suggests," said Utzig, who teaches English literature.

211 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:05:35pm

re: #199 freetoken

The literalists use the genealogies to date "Adam".

Correct, Ussher started with Moses and worked backwards to Adam from there.

212 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:06:31pm

re: #205 Gus

I thought it was CE.

CE = Common Era
BCE = Before Common Era

Because the start of the Common Era happens, providentially, to coincide with the start of the AD era, conversion between the two systems is trivial.

213 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:06:44pm

re: #201 dragonfire1981

Common scientific standard is CE and BCE yes?

it's a religious courtesy, not a scientific notation

214 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:12:29pm

re: #210 dragonfire1981

Atheist Cadet quits West Point over religious pressure

Saw that. The military has become hyper religious over the years. It's fine to have chaplains and place of worship available but the proselytizing need to stop. Even by the chaplains. The cause of this is numerous including the hyper-religiosity which is a product of the tele-evangelization of America from the early 1980s. Another cause is the boastful nature of Americans. Sort of like conspicuous consumption. Many Americans have transfered that same behavior into conspicuous religiosity. Most I'm sure will tell you that spiritual fitness programs are a root cause.

215 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:12:48pm

It was the Myanmar (of all places) seat which Monckton commandeered. Watch the following video (of the latest "stocktaking" plenary) starting at 43:40:

[Link: unfccc4.meta-fusion.com...]

216 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:15:19pm

A good roundup of fiscal cliff fact checks....

Dueling Fiscal Cliff Deceptions

A fog of misinformation has settled on the fiscal cliff, as both House Speaker John Boehner and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner have traded conflicting, misleading and false statements in recent days on the president’s deficit-reduction plan:

217 RadicalModerate  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:15:42pm

re: #175 3eff Jeff

Bible must be wrong too, then. No way the earth can be 6000 years old if we're only in 2012.

Yeah. Pope Gregory XIII was such a heretic.

218 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:16:08pm

re: #210 dragonfire1981

Atheist Cadet quits West Point over religious pressure

Can't say I blame him. I went thru a ton of shit in boot camp for being agnostic.

219 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:18:12pm

0.9% of Americans consider themselves Buddhists. 1.6% consider themselves atheists and 15% consider themselves to be "none." The military doesn't accommodate for the latter. Many are forced into religious ceremonies by their commanders.

220 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:20:19pm

re: #219 Gus

0.9% of Americans consider themselves Buddhists. 1.6% consider themselves atheists and 15% consider themselves to be "none." The military doesn't accommodate for the latter. Many are forced into religious ceremonies by their commanders.

So the men tasked with defending the constitution aren't required to abide by it?

221 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:22:52pm

re: #220 dragonfire1981

So the men tasked with defending the constitution aren't required to abide by it?

It's been a long-standing problem in the military. It's a real shame, and it's a problem for unit cohesion; when any minority members are forced to go along with the religious majority, they're going to feel a disconnect.

222 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:24:35pm

re: #220 dragonfire1981

So the men tasked with defending the constitution aren't required to abide by it?

Doesn't seem like it. I should ask them that question next time they're talking about soldier dying for our freedom and then seeing them try and silence atheists.

223 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:26:05pm
224 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:28:48pm

re: #219 Gus

0.9% of Americans consider themselves Buddhists. 1.6% consider themselves atheists and 15% consider themselves to be "none." The military doesn't accommodate for the latter. Many are forced into religious ceremonies by their commanders.

on the other hand, the military, which is nothing if not consistent, has made accommodations for wiccans

US Army chaplain's handbook: Excerpt on Wicca

225 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:30:49pm

On the general drift of this conversation, a not well written article just posted over at MSNBC:

Science vs. God: A debate over whether progress trumps faith

... describes today's well advertised fat chewing contest in which D'Souza does the tap dance.

226 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:31:41pm

Why does anyone take D'Souza seriously?

227 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:31:50pm

re: #94 Kragar

Real men are protected from harm by the protective field Jesus generates around true believers.

Sort of like a Rosarius issued by the Adeptus Ministorum. Disregard all damage on a dice roll of 4+ (with the exception of C'tan close combat weapons)

228 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:31:52pm

re: #224 engineer cat

on the other hand, the military, which is nothing if not consistent, has made accommodations for wiccans

US Army chaplain's handbook: Excerpt on Wicca

As an agnostic, I was given my choice of attending Catholic or Protestant services every Sunday in boot camp. Staying in the squadbay to study, write a letter, or read was not an option.

229 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:32:37pm

re: #227 celticdragon

Sort of like a Rosarius issued by the Adeptus Ministorum. Disregard all damage on a dice roll of 4+ (with the exception of C'tan close combat weapons)

C'Tan don't do that anymore IIRC.

Psycannons can still shred them though.

230 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:33:23pm

re: #196 dragonfire1981

Hey if the right wingers can just make up names and titles perhaps its time we fight back!

Charles shall henceforth be known as Dr. Charles Johnson III

I shall be known as Field Marshall Von Hoopster, Supreme Commander NATO.

231 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:34:28pm

re: #202 Kragar

We could just use the Imperial Dating system adjusted for Geologic time scales

Making right now 00928012.M3.G14

So when do we start making STC's and getting cool Leman Russ tanks and power armor...?

232 Ian G.  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:35:09pm

OT, but anyone see the photos from the moment Washington State granted marriage equality to gays? I like the two dudes on the right:

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

You mean you can be a bearded dude in a Harley shirt and a GMC hat and be gay? Bryan Fischer never told me that./////

233 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:36:26pm

re: #231 celticdragon

So when do we start making STC's and getting cool Leman Russ tanks and power armor...?

Not soon enough.

234 Mentis Fugit  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:36:28pm

re: #139 Gus

Yeah, but if they're right who will eat crow then!

//

In Post-Mayan Apocalyptic Wasteland, crow eat you.

235 Kragar  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:38:23pm

re: #234 Mentis Fugit

In Post-Mayan Apocalyptic Wasteland, crow eat you.

[Link: farm3.staticflickr.com...]

236 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:39:23pm

re: #228 Kragar

As an agnostic, I was given my choice of attending Catholic or Protestant services every Sunday in boot camp. Staying in the squadbay to study, write a letter, or read was not an option.

i'm an atheist m'self, and i think there should be some agitation to allow us atheists and agnostics equal religious rights in the armed forces

altho as a practical matter if i really wanted to be career military i would probably just swallow it and fall back on being jewish

237 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:42:17pm

The Age of the Internet, where big numbers aren't as impressive as one might think:

How Much Are 1 Billion YouTube Hits Worth? Only $870,000 (Just Ask Psy)

"Gangnam Style" is the most popular YouTube video of all-time. But its nearly 900 million views have made its artist, the K-pop sensation Psy, just $870,000, according to AV Club.

Psy makes more money from selling advertising than he does from selling strictly music performances.

238 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:43:47pm

re: #197 Gus

I used to draw subdivision plats way back. Part of the certificate would include the date as in "20__ A.D." They had "A.D." as a standard. I used to always drop that.

I went to a meeting on Tuesday that started with the Pledge of Allegiance. It had been a few years since I'd recited it, and it kind of came back to me as I was saying it. I went, "...One nation, under gahhh..."

Later that meeting I committed the heresy of speaking against bike lanes as a Vehicular Cyclist.

239 Targetpractice  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:45:50pm

re: #235 Kragar

[Link: farm3.staticflickr.com...]

Crow T-800?

240 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:47:11pm

Over at the Atlantic, Ashley Fetters picks up on an idea that I touched on briefly yesterday:

The Anthropological Reason It Feels Weird to Dance to Brubeck's 'Take Five'

There's another reason why the popularity of "Take Five" is remarkable: It's performed in a musical structure that people in the Western world often show cognitive resistance to.

I found that trying to "dance" to most any Brubeck piece to be very, very difficult, even if written in common time.

241 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:51:47pm

re: #238 wrenchwench

I went to a meeting on Tuesday that started with the Pledge of Allegiance. It had been a few years since I'd recited it, and it kind of came back to me as I was saying it. I went, "...One nation, under gahhh..."

Later that meeting I committed the heresy of speaking against bike lanes as a Vehicular Cyclist.

I used to be a rather well closeted atheist. Not that I'd pretend to pray or anything like that. I would just never tell a soul that I was an atheist. Now, if the conversation is going there I'll bring it up. Kind of creepy sometimes because a lot of people in this world won't hesitate to insult atheists or atheism. I had some guy do that to me one. We were pretty much friends. Forgot what he said exactly but I interjected with "I'm an atheist." Of course I got the common answer of "oh, don't tell me that." It's weird. People don't realize how poorly Americans treat atheists. They keep whining about this alleged war on Christmas which is many times motivated by atheist groups and the ACLU. But the war on atheism in this country is real as this West Point case illustrates. It's a systematic discrimination against atheists on many levels of society.

242 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:53:34pm

Was also kind of weird when people on the left started jumping up and down about Paul Ryan being a reader of Ayn Rand with them exclaiming "she was an atheist!" as some kind of insult or disqualifier.

243 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:55:11pm

Doesn't have to be atheist either. It can include agnostics, secular people, humanists, etc.

"What church do you go to?"

"I don't go to church."

"What?! You don't go to church? Are you some kind of atheist?!?"

244 3eff Jeff  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:55:24pm

re: #241 Gus

And we're back to "projection, much?"

Again.

245 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:55:54pm

re: #238 wrenchwench

I went to a meeting on Tuesday that started with the Pledge of Allegiance. It had been a few years since I'd recited it, and it kind of came back to me as I was saying it. I went, "...One nation, under gahhh..."

One of my regular taxi drivers is an Egyptian guy named Gad. The "a" is a long vowel, making it sound really close to the way we pronounce "god", so next time maybe you can just pretend like you're saying , "One nation, under Gad..." LOL

246 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:56:19pm

re: #241 Gus

What irks me is that people often assume that because I'm an atheist I spend any time whatsoever opposing or being hostile to religion. I don't give a shit about other people's religion. I give a shit about people asserting that gay people suck because God said so-- but I also care about people who say that gay people suck because men should be manly. It's the idea, not the religiosity of it that's bad.

But if I mention I'm an atheist people often act as though I'm going to try to convince them to be an atheist too.

247 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 4:57:21pm

re: #242 Gus

Was also kind of weird when people on the left started jumping up and down about Paul Ryan being a reader of Ayn Rand with them exclaiming "she was an atheist!" as some kind of insult or disqualifier.

I think that was prolly more about Ryan's hypocrisy.

248 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:02:57pm

re: #246 Obdicut

What irks me is that people often assume that because I'm an atheist I spend any time whatsoever opposing or being hostile to religion. I don't give a shit about other people's religion. I give a shit about people asserting that gay people suck because God said so-- but I also care about people who say that gay people suck because men should be manly. It's the idea, not the religiosity of it that's bad.

But if I mention I'm an atheist people often act as though I'm going to try to convince them to be an atheist too.

That's why secularism is important. It's not about what one believes. Atheism can be said to be a private outlook just as much as being Christian. What you want is common bonds which works for the betterment of humanity. So you will find progressive Muslims for example who support gay rights. It won't surprise many to also learn that there are atheists that are opposed to gay rights. What we seek is common ground in liberty, freedom, the pursuit of happiness.

This is one of the reasons I find the situation in Egypt so fascinating is because there seems to be large population of secular progressives in and around Cairo and Alexandria that understand this. Secularism isn't about being religious or irreligious but instead about creating and cultivating a society that builds its foundations outside of their personal beliefs that others might not share. It's about common ground.

249 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:05:17pm

re: #247 CuriousLurker

I think that was prolly more about Ryan's hypocrisy.

Yeah. He should have just said "I know and I still admire her work." That's what he was thinking all along since this was common knowledge. Instead he weaseled out and essentially threw her under the bus because she was an atheist. Not because she had some very flawed ideas about society.

250 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:08:08pm

re: #246 Obdicut

But if I mention I'm an atheist people often act as though I'm going to try to convince them to be an atheist too.

Maybe you can take stealth recruitment lessons from the gays, after all they outnumber atheists by around 2 to 1 so they must be doing something right.

///+

251 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:09:17pm

re: #248 Gus

That's why secularism is important. It's not about one believes.

And if one does not "believe" in secularism?

Yeah, I know, I sound like I'm being just another craggy old pedant.

Yet look at the person of whom I wrote earlier today, Cathy Adams, who most definitely does not believe in secularism.

If she has her way, you won't have a secular society.

Thus it most definitely matters what she believes.

This is the same problem restated in other venues, where the absolutist position is incompatible with the relativist's.

It's a sticky wicket, in which we find ourselves. How do those who want to "live and let live" co-exist with those who most adamantly believe "you are with us or you are against us"??

252 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:10:43pm

Potential good news?

World's '500 Most Influential Muslims' 2012 Dominated By U.S.

(RNS) There are more Muslims from America than any other country on this year's "The Muslim 500: The World's 500 Most Influential Muslims," compiled by the Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre, a respected think tank in Jordan, including two in the top 50.

Sheikh Hamza Yusuf Hanson, a California-born convert who founded Zaytuna College, an Islamic college in Berkeley, Calif., and is a leading Islamic authority in America, ranked No. 42, two places ahead of Seyyed Hossein Nasr, an Islamic studies professor at George Washington University known for his work in Islamic philosophy.

America's roughly 2.6 million Muslims are a tiny fraction of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims, but they took 41 spots on the 500 list. Countries with the next highest number of names were Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Kingdom, with 25 Muslims each, followed by Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, with 24.

"Compared to the global Muslim population, the representation of U.S. Muslims in this list is disproportionate, but yet representative in the way they shape global discourse," said Duke University Islamic studies professor Ebrahim Moosa. [...]

Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the U.K. tied for 2nd place... looks like we have our work cut out for us with at least 3 out of 4 of those.

253 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:11:50pm

By the way - by popular demand, there's now a "Show Users" button in LGF Pages.

254 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:13:50pm

re: #253 Charles Johnson

By the way - by popular demand, there's now a "Show Users" button in LGF Pages.

No more invisible lurking in the Pages, huh? Ah well, we can always choose "Email all comments".

255 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:16:32pm

re: #251 freetoken

And if one does not "believe" in secularism?

Yeah, I know, I sound like I'm being just another craggy old pedant.

Yet look at the person of whom I wrote earlier today, Cathy Adams, who most definitely does not believe in secularism.

If she has her way, you won't have a secular society.

Thus it most definitely matters what she believes.

This is the same problem restated in other venues, where the absolutist position is incompatible with the relativist's.

It's a sticky wicket, in which we find ourselves. How do those who want to "live and let live" co-exist with those who most adamantly believe "you are with us or you are against us"??

It's a work in progress and I think most reasonable people are starting to see the light around the world. The US Constitution is a very good model and sometimes wish that Egypt would effectively copy it. Otherwise I have no personal expectations.

256 Interesting Times  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:18:07pm

re: #254 CuriousLurker

No more invisible lurking in the Pages, huh? Ah well, we can always choose "Email* all comments".

I do that all the time, for any Page I comment in or ding. Perfect way to snatch satisfaction from the jaws of "last word" trolls ;)

*Speaking of email, just sent you one on another subject

257 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:20:29pm

DWTS champion pro female disses Honey Boo Boo and faces the wrath of TMZ's misogynistic commenters:

HONEY BOO BOO DISSED By 'Dancing' Star

America loves Honey Boo Boo and her dysfunctional family. Hard working, highly talented immigrant Russians - not so much.

258 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:24:50pm

re: #257 freetoken

Baffling.

259 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:25:16pm

And... Youtube changes again.

260 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:26:54pm

re: #259 Gus

Google is getting quite creative with their main product pages these days.

261 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:30:22pm

When Rome burned, Nero fiddled (according to legend)?

When we face a "cliff" what do we do? Why, fantasize about Platinum coins!

Could the ‘platinum coin option’ solve the U.S. debt crisis?

If President Obama wants to avoid an economic calamity next year, he could always show up at a news conference bearing two shiny platinum coins, each worth . . . $1 trillion.

Okay, that sounds utterly insane. But some economists and legal scholars have suggested that the “platinum coin option” is one way to defuse a crisis if Congress cannot or will not lift the debt ceiling soon. At least in theory.

[...]

Under current law, the Treasury is technically allowed to mint as many coins made of platinum as it wants and can assign them whatever value it pleases.

Under this scenario, the U.S. Mint would make a pair of trillion-dollar platinum coins. The president orders the coins to be deposited at the Federal Reserve. The Fed moves this money into Treasury’s accounts. And just like that, Treasury suddenly has an extra $2 trillion to pay off its obligations for the next two years — without needing to issue new debt. The ceiling is no longer an issue.

“I like it,” said Joseph Gagnon of the Peterson Institute for International Economics. “There’s nothing that’s obviously economically problematic about it.”

[...]

262 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:30:34pm

re: #260 freetoken

Google is getting quite creative with their main product pages these days.

Didn't like their last change. The auto search feature drives me nuts and it often just stall giving me a blank page. The suggestions also gets stuck sometimes and you have to hover over it and hit escape for the pull-down to close...

263 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:32:52pm

Twitter will be losing 2 characters early next year. :O

264 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:33:05pm

re: #262 Gus

Yeah, Google search is blanking pages for me too.

And, their menu structure is irregular. E.g., the "time" selection is in different columns depending upon search type.

265 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:33:18pm

My bet is that they'll ruin Twitter in the long run. Always happens.

266 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:34:03pm

re: #261 freetoken

When Rome burned, Nero fiddled (according to legend)?

When we face a "cliff" what do we do? Why, fantasize about Platinum coins!

Could the ‘platinum coin option’ solve the U.S. debt crisis?

damn, I thought for sure that was a Jennifer Rubin article. LOL
Oh, well. The rich are getting their tax rates raised. It's the worst kept secret in the world on par with Iran's nuclear ambitions.

267 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:34:07pm

re: #265 Gus

My bet is that they'll ruin Twitter in the long run. Always happens.

The only time I ever click on the top bar is to do a Youtube search.

268 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:35:13pm

re: #263 Gus

Twitter will be losing 2 characters early next year. :O

I hope one of them is M. Malkin.

/

269 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:35:26pm

re: #256 Interesting Times

I do that all the time, for any Page I comment in or ding. Perfect way to snatch satisfaction from the jaws of "last word" trolls ;)

*Speaking of email, just sent you one on another subject

LOL, indeed!

Received & responded. ;)

270 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:36:14pm

re: #224 engineer cat

on the other hand, the military, which is nothing if not consistent, has made accommodations for wiccans

US Army chaplain's handbook: Excerpt on Wicca

Yep. And when I was going through my Buddhist phase in the early '80's, a Baptist chaplain made sure the chain of command did not give me any shit about it. The incense made my CO twitchy but I never came up hot on the pee tests so I was ok for that year. I was too busy drinking to smoke but that's another story...

271 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:36:15pm

re: #263 Gus

Twitter will be losing 2 characters early next year. :O

Censorship!

272 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:37:05pm

Give me 140 characters, or give me death.

273 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:37:17pm
274 Varek Raith  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:40:51pm

Dear Youtube,
Stop.
Making.
Stupid.
Changes.

275 Gus  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:41:23pm

re: #271 Charles Johnson

Censorship!

#CharacterLimitGulag!

276 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:41:24pm

re: #261 freetoken

When Rome burned, Nero fiddled (according to legend)?

When we face a "cliff" what do we do? Why, fantasize about Platinum coins!

Could the ‘platinum coin option’ solve the U.S. debt crisis?

OMG, I so wish they would. A couple of 1 oz Trillion Dollar coins would so piss off the Gold Bugs.

277 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:41:38pm

WND lays out the BENGHAZI!! scandal - bare!

Benghazi bungle an attempt to advance Islam?

“Official U. S. policy now is to assist al-Qaida, the Muslim Brotherhood and other jihadists to overthrow what have been termed ‘unfaithful Arab/Muslim rulers’ who failed to enforce Islamic law (shariah) … and to replace them with jihadist Muslim Brotherhood leadership that has pledged its commitment to re-establishment of the Caliphate and strict implementation of Shariah,” she said.

SHARIAH!!

278 bratwurst  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:42:05pm

re: #274 Varek Raith

Dear Youtube,
Stop.
Making.
Stupid.
Changes.

I loved the "hey, we know you REALLY want to change your ID to be your real name, right?" message.

Um, no. No I don't.

279 freetoken  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:42:59pm

re: #276 William Barnett-Lewis

Setting (defacto) the price of platinum at $1Trillion/troy ounce might wreck havoc with automobile pricing, though.

280 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:43:03pm

Okay, the doctor told me no more bread, pasta, or potatoes—*sniffle*—so I ordered a 4 lb. bag of organic quinoa (the regular yellow kind) and have no idea how to cook it to make it tasty. Any suggestions?

Oh, and as an advance "thank you" here's a food blog called The Spice Spoon by a Persian-Pakistani woman. Many of the recipes look scrumptious and the blog is beautifully done, a real pleasure to browse through.

281 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:43:48pm

Night Lizards. Been an interesting day.

Sleep well and may the Deity of your choice smile down upon you and yours.

282 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:44:24pm

I am late to the thread so I am not sure if this was brought up already, but the Heritage Foundation enjoys tax-exempt status as a 501(c)(3) corporation. That means that people who donate money to their political agenda can claim it as a deduction on their tax returns. That means the US taxpayer is subsidizing Heritage Foundation.

The Heritage Foundation: FAQ's about Donations.

Are donations to The Heritage Foundation tax deductible? Yes. The Heritage Foundation is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, and contributions are tax-deductible for income, gift, and estate taxes. Our federal tax identification number is 23-7327730.

It is the height of right wing hypocrisy. A think tank that allegedly espouses free market solutions and capitalism needs a government handout in order to operate.
When will our politicians put an end to the blatant abuse of the 501(c)(3) tax exempt status. The first rule of these organizations is that they can not be primarily lobbying groups. I know when. When the voters demand it.

283 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:46:53pm

re: #279 freetoken

Setting (defacto) the price of platinum at $1Trillion/troy ounce might wreck havoc with automobile pricing, though.

Hmm. Inset a chunk of lunar rock from NASA into the center of the coin so that only those two chunks of platinum can qualify as being "worth" that much.

284 Mich-again  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:50:40pm

ALEC is also a tax-exempt charitable organization. And even though the "donation" buys businessmen direct access to Congressmen and dinners and conferences, the business people can claim it as a donation.

Down here in real person world, if you buy tickets to a golf outing from a charitable organization, you can't claim the whole amount as a tax deduction. The portion of the price that went to the round of golf and the dinner are excluded because you received something in return, it wasn't a pure donation.

But when a corporation pays ALEC the $25,000 for membership, they can claim it as a donation. The direct access to lawmakers and the conferences and dinners aren't assessed any value.

285 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:57:17pm

re: #280 CuriousLurker

Okay, the doctor told me no more bread, pasta, or potatoes—*sniffle*—so I ordered a 4 lb. bag of organic quinoa (the regular yellow kind) and have no idea how to cook it to make it tasty. Any suggestions?

Oh, and as an advance "thank you" here's a food blog called The Spice Spoon by a Persian-Pakistani woman. Many of the recipes look scrumptious, and the blog is beautifully done, a real pleasure to brows through.

My first tip for quinoa is to toast it. I'm suspicious of any recipe that doesn't tell you to toast your quinoa before cooking. Just a dry pan on med heat. You'll hear the seeds start to pop and the smell is heavenly on par with baking breading. just keep tossing until the seeds start to darken. It only takes 10 minutes but makes the difference between flavorless mush and awesome deliciousness.
It also makes an excellent thickener for soups, stews and curries instead of using flour or corn starch. My thanksgiving leftovers were transformed into turkey chilli thickened with quinoa. It came out fantastic.

286 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 5:59:28pm

re: #280 CuriousLurker

Okay, the doctor told me no more bread, pasta, or potatoes—*sniffle*—so I ordered a 4 lb. bag of organic quinoa (the regular yellow kind) and have no idea how to cook it to make it tasty. Any suggestions?

Oh, and as an advance "thank you" here's a food blog called The Spice Spoon by a Persian-Pakistani woman. Many of the recipes look scrumptious, and the blog is beautifully done, a real pleasure to brows through.

How to Cook Quinoa

There's also cookingquinoa.net, which is a nicely assembled page of recipes.

Alternately, here's outre director David Lynch explaining how to cook it:

287 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 6:01:54pm

re: #286 The Ghost of a Flea

How to Cook Quinoa

There's also cookingquinoa.net, which is a nicely assembled page of recipes.

Alternately, here's outre director David Lynch explaining how to cook it:

[Embedded content]

3. Dry and toast quinoa in saucepan. Heat a drizzle of olive oil in the saucepan over medium-high heat, and add the drained quinoa. Cook, stirring, for about 1 minute, letting the water evaporate.
Nice!
/I love that David Lynch clip.

288 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 6:03:08pm

re: #285 Killgore Trout

My first tip for quinoa is to toast it. I'm suspicious of any recipe that doesn't tell you to toast your quinoa before cooking. Just a dry pan on med heat. You'll hear the seeds start to pop and the smell is heavenly on par with baking breading. just keep tossing until the seeds start to darken. It only takes 10 minutes but makes the difference between flavorless mush and awesome deliciousness.
It also makes an excellent thickener for soups, stews and curries instead of using flour or corn starch. My thanksgiving leftovers were transformed into turkey chilli thickened with quinoa. It came out fantastic.

Excellent, thanks!

289 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 6:03:16pm

re: #286 The Ghost of a Flea

That is mindblowing.

290 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 6:03:52pm

re: #286 The Ghost of a Flea

How to Cook Quinoa

There's also cookingquinoa.net, which is a nicely assembled page of recipes.

Alternately, here's outre director David Lynch explaining how to cook it:

[Embedded content]

Also excellent! Thank you. ;)

291 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 6:16:11pm

For the David Lynch fans: He did an episode of louie recently

292 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 6:31:29pm

re: #280 CuriousLurker

Okay, the doctor told me no more bread, pasta, or potatoes—*sniffle*—so I ordered a 4 lb. bag of organic quinoa (the regular yellow kind) and have no idea how to cook it to make it tasty. Any suggestions?

Oh, and as an advance "thank you" here's a food blog called The Spice Spoon by a Persian-Pakistani woman. Many of the recipes look scrumptious and the blog is beautifully done, a real pleasure to browse through.

Why?

293 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 6:35:52pm

re: #292 TedStriker

Why?

Diabetes. :-/

294 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 6:51:06pm

re: #293 CuriousLurker

Diabetes. :-/

Bummer. I'm sure your doc has plenty of solid advice but my uniformed opinion is to give up prepackaged microwavable meals. All those food products are loaded with extra sugars. Cook your own stuff in large batches and freeze smaller portions in tuperware. Diabetes is an epidemic and I'm pretty convinced it's the food companies that are doing it to us. Even the "healthy" labeled meals should be avoided. Buy ingredients not meals. It's cheaper too.

295 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 7:04:21pm

re: #294 Killgore Trout

Bummer. I'm sure your doc has plenty of solid advice but my uniformed opinion is to give up prepackaged microwavable meals. All those food products are loaded with extra sugars. Cook your own stuff in large batches and freeze smaller portions in tuperware. Diabetes is an epidemic and I'm pretty convinced it's the food companies that are doing it to us. Even the "healthy" labeled meals should be avoided. Buy ingredients not meals. It's cheaper too.

Thanks. I pretty much cook like that already (i.e. my own stuff in batches, then freeze it in portions) and I didn't think I ate much processed food, but I still probably ate more than I should.

I agree (for the 3rd time, e gad) that a lot of it is due to the processed foods we eat. My doc agrees as well—too much added salt, sugar, starch, and God knows what other chemical stuff. I'm not big on sweets, but I didn't realize how much of the starch/carbs I was eating got converted into glucose. O_o

Luckily, she didn't try to take away my coffee & milk (I drink 1% anyway), and she said if I MUST occasionally eat bread or potatoes it can be rye and sweet potatoes. Still, *sniffle*....

I've had to stop buying certain foods because the temptation to indulge is too strong. I can’t eat what isn’t there and I don’t have a car, so it’s a pretty effective deterrent.

This getting old shit sucks. It's not for sissies.

296 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 7:13:39pm

re: #295 CuriousLurker

Thanks. I already pretty much cook like that already (i.e. my own stuff in batches, then freeze it in portion) and I didn't think I ate much processed food, but I still probably ate more than I should.

I agree (for the 3rd time, e gad) that a lot of it is due to the processed foods we eat. My doc agrees as well—too much added salt, sugar, starch, and God knows what other chemical stuff. I'm not big on sweets, but I didn't realize how much of the starch/carbs I was eating got converted into glucose. O_o

Luckily, she didn't try to take away my coffee & milk (I drink 1% anyway), and she said if I MUST occasionally eat bread or potatoes it can be rye and sweet potatoes. Still, *sniffle*....

I've had to stop buying certain foods because the temptation to indulge is too strong. I can’t eat what isn’t there and I don’t have a car, so it’s a pretty effective deterrent.

This getting old shit sucks. It's not for sissies.

Hang in there, it will take some adjustment and you might miss some comfort foods but there are some really tasty alternatives. You may also look into soba noodles. The cook in about a minute and are really quite a treat when done right.
That reminds me to plan ahead for my new year's supper
Toshikoshi Soba or Year-End Soba: A bowl of hot soba noodles to end the year

297 CuriousLurker  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 7:21:01pm

re: #296 Killgore Trout

Hang in there, it will take some adjustment and you might miss some comfort foods but there are some really tasty alternatives. You may also look into soba noodles. The cook in about a minute and are really quite a treat when done right.
That reminds me to plan ahead for my new year's supper
Toshikoshi Soba or Year-End Soba: A bowl of hot soba noodles to end the year

Thanks! Those look pretty darned tasty. If you think of anything else or come across something new in the future, please let me know (even if I'm pissed off and not speaking to you ;)).

298 Tigger2  Thu, Dec 6, 2012 11:26:06pm

re: #263 Gus

Twitter will be losing 2 characters early next year. :O

That should keep the wingnuts off Twitter for a couple months until they figure out how to cope with the change. lol

299 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Dec 7, 2012 2:31:13am

re: #86 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Tell that to the 2000 female snipers the Russians had during WWII.

Tell that to the IDF.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

TwitterFacebook

Turn off all ads for a full year by subscribing!
For about 33 cents a day (per month) or 22 cents a day (per year), our subscription option turns off all advertisements at LGF!
Read more...

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Articles

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Pages

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form
LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.

Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
team_fukit
Agent Storm: Inside Al Qaeda for the CIA (CNN)
Interesting interview of Morten Storm, a Danish convert to Islam who claims to have volunteered as a double agent for the CIA and the PET after he became trusted by Anwar al-Alwaki but later disillusioned with Islam. He takes credit ...

16 minutes ago
Views: 16 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
FemNaziBitch
This Is What an Abortion Looks Like -NYT
This is how it really is, abortion: You do things you regret or don't understand and then you make other choices because life keeps going forward. Or you do something out of love and then, through biology or accident, ...

1 hour, 26 minutes ago
Views: 41 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Randall Gross
Looking for the Key to Security in the Internet of Things
As the number of Internet connected-devices in any home skyrockets from a few, to a few dozen, to perhaps even a few hundred--including interconnecting thermostats, appliances, health and fitness monitors and personal accessories like smart watches--security concerns for this ...

2 hours, 31 minutes ago
Views: 63 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Lumberhead
Angry Letters to the One Member of Congress Who Voted Against the War on Terror - the Atlantic
My first attempt at a page - so here we go: The article is a little long but well worth while. I found it to be nicely balanced with interesting excerpts from supporters as well as detractors. Barbara Lee was ...

19 hours, 7 minutes ago
Views: 212 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 5
The War TARDIS
Doctor Who “Listen” Open Thread
I'm back. Last week, I couldn't do this thread, as something more important was going on. One of my best friends, a sweet, and very devout Christian, is going to the UK to help a Christian Group in Oxford, and ...

2 days, 17 hours ago
Views: 240 • Comments: 41
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
Rightwingconspirator
Are Higher Frame Rates Really a Better Moving Image in Cinema?
As a guy who scratches the surface of this medium with humble indy efforts and some industrial video experience I have to watch carefully. If I commit to the wrong camera or format, it can hurt financially. Once I had ...

3 days, 19 hours ago
Views: 426 • Comments: 7
Tweets: 25 • Rating: 6
Slap
For guitar fans…
I suppose one needs to be a guitar freak of a certain age to recognize both of these guys. Gabrels' work might be familiar to fans of Bowie/Tin Machine. Nelson's work? I believe him to be one of the most ...

3 days, 22 hours ago
Views: 269 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
GlutenFreeJesus
Check your gmail accounts!
Here's the link to the tool. One of mine was on that list, so I changed the password. Good luck! isleaked.com

5 days, 14 hours ago
Views: 486 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 7
I Stand With Big Sodomy!
French speaking tourists wanted for luring, kicking squirrel into Grand Canyon
Needless to say the little guy didn't make it. The tourists are described as two French-speaking men, wearing only cowboy hats and boxer shorts. Story

5 days, 19 hours ago
Views: 609 • Comments: 6
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 5
CriticalDragon1177
Ars Technica - Tasmanian depths may have been hiding unknown animal phylum
As John Timmer at Ars Technica points out, we may have found not only a new species, but a brand new type of animal! This is big news for the science of biology, and zoology in particular! Over the past ...

6 days, 17 hours ago
Views: 434 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 3 • Rating: 0
 Frank says:

Don't expect anything,don't expect fun, don't expect friends.. if you get something...it's a BONUS