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Pamela Geller’s New Ad: A Picture of the 9/11 WTC Attack and a Quote From the Quran

Exploiting 9/11 to spread bigotry and fear
Wingnuts • Views: 30,196

Remember how hate group leader Pamela Geller claimed that her subway/bus advertisements about Muslim “savages” were only intended to apply to radical jihadis? Not to Muslims in general? Remember how she claimed she truly loves Muslims, and her purpose was to spread love, not hate?

Well, you can forget all that. The latest advertisement she’s paying to display in the New York subway system just drops all pretense of criticizing only extremists, and makes it dead obvious that Geller, Robert Spencer, and their bigoted cohorts really do not love Muslims at all. I know, it’s a shock.

Her insanely offensive advertisement is a picture of people dying on September 11, accompanied by a quote from the Quran — making a very clear statement that the religion of Islam itself is responsible for the 9/11 terror attacks.

It’s been no secret to those who’ve followed Geller’s deranged hate campaigns against Muslims that her protestations of innocence and love and “only the jihadis” were nothing but outright lies. Now her obsessions have gotten the better of her, and she’s making her noxious hatred clear to everyone.

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345 comments

1 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 1:59:45pm

Pam is essentially no different from Kim Kardashian at this point...getting publicity is her raison d'être.

2 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:05:23pm

They're progressively getting worse and this current one is pretty awful. This is only promoting disunity and bigotry. This was another one from November:

Don't know why the numbers are different.

3 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:12:58pm

Hey Pam, two can play at that game...

Deuteronomy 2:25
This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee.

It is easy to take isolated verses and attribute any meaning you want to them, isn't it?

4 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:13:17pm

Christ, what loathsome excuse for a human being.

5 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:14:32pm

As long as Geller gets the attention she craves, this kind of ugliness will continue.

What Geller really hates is being ignored- and she has found an outlet which keeps center stage and feeds the dysfunction.

6 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:15:24pm

re: #2 Gus

Accounting error
//

7 dragonath  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:19:22pm

Islamophobia
Islamorealism
Islamofascism
Islamocommunism
Islamophysical
Islamopomorphism
Islamobiotic
Islamosexual
Islamoldmanriver

8 Henchman 25  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:20:46pm

re: #7 dragonath

Islamophobia
Islamorealism
Islamofascism
Islamocommunism
Islamophysical
Islamopomorphism
Islamobiotic
Islamosexual
Islamoldmanriver

Islamonicknackpaddywhackgiveadogabone

9 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:25:50pm

re: #2 Gus

They're progressively getting worse and this current one is pretty awful. This is only promoting disunity and bigotry. This was another one from November:

[Embedded content]

Don't know why the numbers are different.

Well the sign says "and counting" so I assume they simply updated it from the older lower number. I'd be interested in knowing what they count as a "deadly Islamic attack" I assume that includes every soldier killed in Iraq and Afghanistan along with every killing worldwide attributed to anyone who is or might have been a Muslim.

10 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:30:52pm

Think I feel sorry for MTA more than anyone, they have to put up these ads with no real ability to deny Pam the space. Mostly because she's just waiting for them to do so to cry "censorship!" while she sues them.

11 RadicalModerate  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:33:04pm

re: #9 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Well the sign says "and counting" so I assume they simply updated it from the older lower number. I'd be interested in knowing what they count as a "deadly Islamic attack" I assume that includes every soldier killed in Iraq and Afghanistan along with every killing worldwide attributed to anyone who is or might have been a Muslim.

If someone posted the number of people killed by Christians using the same metric that Pam is using, that number would be at least 30 times as large. And yes, many of those are done by organized groups acting in the name of Christianity.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

12 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:35:29pm

The quote Geller and Spencer have used:

Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers.

al-Imran 3:151

سَنُلْقِي فِي قُلُوبِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا الرُّعْبَ بِمَا أَشْرَكُوا بِاللَّهِ مَا لَمْ يُنَزِّلْ بِهِ
سُلْطَانًا وَمَأْوَاهُمُ النَّارُ وَبِئْسَ مَثْوَى الظَّالِمِينَ

There are well over 2 dozen translations to this.

They are using just a small part of the translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali which reads:

Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

Another by Abdel Haleem:

We will strike panic into the disbelievers’ hearts because they attribute partners to God although He has sent no authority for this: their shelter will be the Fire- how miserable is the home of the evildoers!

They seem to be talking about "hell." It's not meant to be a literal reading -- much like the Bible. The 9/11 attackers did not attack America because of religion nor Islam. In any case, Geller and Spencer have cherry picked the Quran.

13 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:36:30pm

From Pam's head:

Oh, no, I love Muslims!! I love all the Muslims who renounce the Quran and Sharia and Jihad!

14 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:39:06pm

re: #10 Targetpractice

Think I feel sorry for MTA more than anyone, they have to put up these ads with no real ability to deny Pam the space. Mostly because she's just waiting for them to do so to cry "censorship!" while she sues them.

She already did. Sue them I mean...

[Link: articles.nydailynews.com...]

15 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:39:52pm

re: #12 Gus

The quote Geller and Spencer have used:

al-Imran 3L151

سَنُلْقِي فِي قُلُوبِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا الرُّعْبَ بِمَا أَشْرَكُوا بِاللَّهِ مَا لَمْ يُنَزِّلْ بِهِ
سُلْطَانًا وَمَأْوَاهُمُ النَّارُ وَبِئْسَ مَثْوَى الظَّالِمِينَ

There are well over 2 dozen translations to this.

They are using just a small part of the translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali which reads:

Another by Abdel Haleem:

They seem to be talking about "hell." It's not meant to be a literal reading -- much like the Bible. The 9/11 attackers did not attack America because of religion nor Islam. In any case, Geller and Spencer have cherry picked the Quran.

And then there's Google Translate:

We will in the hearts of those who disbelieve horror that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no Authority and the home will be the Fire and evil is the home of the oppressors

16 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:42:52pm

Actually she sued them before that even...she sued over the "ground-zero mosque" ads too.

[Link: articles.nydailynews.com...]

17 bronxboy47  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:43:03pm

I guess she doesn't care to quote the New Testament, which promises damnation and hellfire to non-believers, and which reserves a special place in hell for recalcitrant Jews.

18 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:43:20pm

re: #15 wrenchwench

And then there's Google Translate:

Interesting. Looks like some of the words might be misplaced. Here's the translation by Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali which reads similarly:

We will soon cast in (to) the hearts of the ones who have disbelieved horror for whatever they associated with Allah for which He has not sent down an all-binding authority; and their abode will be the Fire, and miserable is the lodging of the unjust!

19 RadicalModerate  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:44:21pm

I think that it is also telling that when actual cases of ethnic cleansing and genocide against Muslims happens, Pam is a steadfast denialist.

LGF June 4, 2011: Pamela Geller, Genocide Denier

20 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:45:14pm

re: #18 Gus

Interesting. Looks like some of the words might be misplaced. Here's the translation by Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali which reads similarly:

Pamz, Spencer, and their acolytes can't go to Hell fast enough for me...

21 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:45:46pm

re: #18 Gus

and miserable is the lodging of the unjust!

That one could rotate.

Oh, wait, we don't have those any more.

22 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:46:11pm
23 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:47:45pm

re: #21 wrenchwench

That one could rotate.

Oh, wait, we don't have those any more.

Well, we could, actually. I just had them turned off while I was moving things around in the design. I guess I kind of made an unplanned decision that it was better to get the Featured Pages list as close to the top of the right column as possible.

24 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:49:00pm

re: #23 Charles Johnson

Well, we could, actually. I just had them turned off while I was moving things around in the design. I guess I kind of made an unplanned decision that it was better to get the Featured Pages list as close to the top of the right column as possible.

Maybe bottom left, sort of opposite Frank Says.

25 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:49:20pm

re: #21 wrenchwench

That one could rotate.

Oh, wait, we don't have those any more.

I think we can call BS on the Geller/Spencer quote. It's only part of a larger translation of which there are many. The general reading to me seem to be "we will heckle all the unbelievers until they arrive in Hell!" Or basically like when Christians tell me I'll burn in hell for being an atheist.

26 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:49:41pm

re: #18 Gus

Interesting. Looks like some of the words might be misplaced. Here's the translation by Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali which reads similarly:

Still, pretty good for a foreign language computer translation, I remember when all you could expect from them was utter nonsense.

27 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:50:49pm

re: #25 Gus

I think we can call BS on the Geller/Spencer quote. It's only part of a larger translation of which there are many. The general reading to me seem to be "we will heckle all the unbelievers until they arrive in Hell!" Or basically like when Christians tell me I'll burn in hell for being an atheist.

'BS' and 'Spencer/Geller' is redundant.

28 jaunte  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:51:09pm

re: #25 Gus

"Soon we shall cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers" is a pretty good summary of Bryan Fischer's Twitter timeline.

29 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:51:40pm

re: #26 watching you tiny alien kittens are


Still, pretty good for a foreign language computer translation

I got mine from a guy on the corner out of his trunk

I remember when all you could expect from them was utter nonsense.

Mine translated that to read
hwehnb4l. k23m ldkidu ,,, askiiy kik8i wspufy ,,

Maybe I should have paid more !
/

30 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:52:19pm

re: #26 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Still, pretty good for a foreign language computer translation, I remember when all you could expect from them was utter nonsense.

I have two siblings who translate for their livings, so I ridicule Google Translate whenever I can. I think that only makes it smarter, though.

31 darthstar  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:53:57pm

Phil from last night. Great show. 25 minute Golden Road To Unlimited Devotion opener...off the hook bass by a 72 year old.

Image: 182346_10151303845228024_140327252_n.jpg

32 nines09  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:54:05pm

"Now her obsessions have gotten the better of her, and she’s making her noxious hatred clear to everyone."
And that's what turns on her supporters. This is food for the vile. They lap it up. Maybe Newt can do a cameo?

33 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 2:54:49pm

re: #14 watching you tiny alien kittens are

re: #16 watching you tiny alien kittens are

All part of Geller's attention getting neediness.

I'm sure she factors those lawsuits into the timing of her PR campaigns, press releases, news conferences, etc.

34 dragonfire1981  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:08:44pm

What drives me crazy is how she has the MONEY for all this. I just can't believe someone like her could get bankrolled so well.

35 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:10:32pm

re: #34 dragonfire1981

What drives me crazy is how she has the MONEY for all this. I just can't believe someone like her could get bankrolled so well.

She almost had the bankroll to charter a ship to sail around the world rescuing people from Muslim countries. Not kidding.

36 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:11:14pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

She almost had the bankroll to charter a ship to sail around the world rescuing people from Muslim countries. Not kidding.

{sigh}

37 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:11:20pm

re: #34 dragonfire1981

What drives me crazy is how she has the MONEY for all this. I just can't believe someone like her could get bankrolled so well.

She started when she inherited 4 million from her late husband.

38 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:12:13pm

re: #37 A Man for all Seasons

She started when she inherited 4 million from her late husband.

How much you wanna bet not much (if any) of that 4 million goes to her "cause(s)"??

39 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:12:53pm

re: #37 A Man for all Seasons

She started when she inherited 4 million from her late husband.

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

According to The New York Times, she received a $4 million divorce settlement, a portion of $1.8 million from the sale of the Long Island home and then a $5 million life insurance payment when Oshry died a few months after remarrying in 2008. The criminal case has not moved forward since the 2008 arrests.

40 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:13:38pm

re: #37 A Man for all Seasons

She started when she inherited 4 million from her late husband.

An article I read said it was almost $10 million, they had already divorced before he died but I suppose he didn't change his will because of the children.

41 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:17:40pm

re: #39 Gus

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

Thanks Gus, that better explains where the $10 million number came from, so really she got 10.8 from her ex.

Ahh, the life of the not so idle rich...

/

42 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:21:59pm

re: #41 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Thanks Gus, that better explains where the $10 million number came from, so really she got 10.8 from her ex.

Ahh, the life of the not so idle rich...

/

More from the NY Times:

...

Ms. Geller got nearly $4 million when the couple divorced in 2007, and when Mr. Oshry died in 2008, there was a $5 million life-insurance policy benefiting her four daughters, said Alex Potruch, Mr. Oshry’s lawyer. She also kept some proceeds from the sale of Mr. Oshry’s $1.8 million house in Hewlett Harbor.

...

It is difficult to determine who finances their movement, since their new organization has yet to win tax-free status requiring documentation of donations. Mr. Spencer estimated that since 2009, the two have raised and spent about $150,000 for things like the bus ads and giant television screens for the 9/11 rally, some of it donated through Mr. Spencer’s Jihad Watch, a 501(c)3 nonprofit agency. In recent years, Jihad Watch has been a program of the David Horowitz Freedom Center, which pays him a $132,000 salary and, as Politico.com has reported, has received significant contributions from philanthropists who back the Israeli right.

43 BongCrodny  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:22:03pm

re: #41 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Thanks Gus, that better explains where the $10 million number came from, so really she got 10.8 from her ex.

Ahh, the life of the not so idle rich...

/

It would be better if she were the idle rich...

44 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:26:18pm

re: #39 Gus

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

Great read! Thanks Gus

45 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:26:21pm

Army/ Navy

Great game

Great tradition

Tough ending (for Army)

46 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:28:01pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

Army/ Navy

Great game

Great tradition

Tough ending (for Army)

Go Navy! Good game

47 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:28:43pm

re: #46 A Man for all Seasons

Go Navy! Good game

I feel so bad for that Army QB. Started for them all 4 years, no wins. Came so close this time

48 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:29:16pm

Total contributions, gifts and grants to Jihad Watch was $196,027.

Total revenue for the David Horowitz Freedom Center was $5,182,335 in 2010.

49 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:31:15pm

re: #46 A Man for all Seasons

Go Navy! Good game

Biden looks like he's been in the sun (either that, or he got hold of some of Boehner's special cream!!)

50 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:32:29pm

Another:

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Funding:

Spencer’s activities are funded in large part through the David Horowitz Freedom Center. Spencer’s salary at Jihad Watch was about $140,000 in 2010, according to an investigative report by Politico’s Kenneth Vogel and Giovanni Russonello. Donations to Stop Islamization of America appear to be collected by Jihad Watch’s PayPal account. In 2005 and 2006, the Fairbrook Foundation contributed a total of $253,250 to Jihad Watch.

51 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:38:11pm

re: #1 bratwurst

Pam is essentially no different from Kim Kardashian at this point...getting publicity is her raison d'être.

I'd upding that if I could, but its grossly unfair to Kim Kardashian. The worst Kim Kardashian has done is to have made a sex tape, she isn't a hateful person who encourages bigotry. Pam Geller is just such a person, and she's friends with even worse people like the EDL.

52 Mich-again  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:41:21pm

re: #42 Gus

Mr. Spencer estimated that since 2009, the two have raised and spent about $150,000 for things like the bus ads and giant television screens for the 9/11 rally, some of it donated through Mr. Spencer’s Jihad Watch, a 501(c)3 nonprofit agency.

JihadWatch is taxpayer subsidized??? the 501(c)(3) status means that when someone sends him $1,000 donation, they can claim it as a tax deduction and then the IRS gets a smaller payment. geesh WTF is wrong with that picture?
We're up to here in debt and political extremists are feeding at the public trough.

The IRS needs to go hard after all those who abuse the 501(c)(3) tax exempt status.

53 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:42:00pm

Fairbrook Foundation at Guidestar

Gave $80,400 to American Freedom Alliance of which Robert Spencer is a fellow.

Total revenue for Fairbrook was $983,045. Obviously they are not the only contributor to American Freedom Alliance. They are also behind American Freedom Alliance - Islamic Penetration of Europe.

54 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:45:08pm

re: #53 Gus

They can't be serious.

This is a tax dodge- a con.

55 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:46:28pm

re: #52 Mich-again

JihadWatch is taxpayer subsidized??? the 501(c)(3) status means that when someone sends him $1,000 donation, they can claim it as a tax deduction and then the IRS gets a smaller payment. geesh WTF is wrong with that picture?
We're up to here in debt and political extremists are feeding at the public trough.

The IRS needs to go hard after all those who abuse the 501(c)(3) tax exempt status.

Looks like Jihad Watch was a non-profit in 2006.

56 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:46:31pm

re: #51 Dark_Falcon

I'd upding that if I could, but its grossly unfair to Kim Kardashian. The worst Kim Kardashian has done is to have made a sex tape, she isn't a hateful person who encourages bigotry. Pam Geller is just such a person, and she's friends with even worse people like the EDL.

I'd upding your post...except Pam voted for the same guy you did for president.

57 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:46:49pm

re: #55 Gus

Looks like Jihad Watch was a non-profit in 2006.

Annual Revenue & Expenses Additional Information
Fiscal Year Starting: Jan 01, 2006
Fiscal Year Ending: Dec 31, 2006
Revenue Total Revenue $133,062
Expenses Total Expenses $102,845

58 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:46:56pm

Meanwhile Marc Morano is pitching a fit over b_sharp's latest Page on his "debate" with Bill Nye: [Link: www.climatedepot.com...]

Here's the page:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

59 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:47:34pm

re: #54 researchok

They can't be serious.

This is a tax dodge- a con shelter please!.

60 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:48:04pm

(I'll let b_sharp answer him, since it was his page.)

61 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:49:16pm

re: #60 Charles Johnson

(I'll let b_sharp answer him, since it was his page.)

Promote it when ready. Give Morano more splodey head moments.

62 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:54:52pm

re: #56 bratwurst

I'd upding your post...except Pam voted for the same guy you did for president.

Well, I'll upding this post anyways, because I wanted to upding the other one and your analysis of Pam Geller struck me as on target.

63 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:55:20pm

Marc Morano -- First generation Swiftboater

"As a reporter for the conservative Cybercast News Service from 2001 until earlier [in 2006], Morano peppered his climate reporting with skeptics' views that have surfaced as themes in [James] Inhofe's recent press attacks. Earlier this year, for example, Morano wrote about NASA scientist James Hansen's contributions to the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee, Sen. John Kerry (Mass.). ...

"Morano, who worked as a producer in the mid-90s for radio commentator Rush Limbaugh, was also among the first reporters to write about the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign scrutinizing Kerry's Vietnam War record. And earlier this year, Morano penned an article questioning the Purple Heart medals of Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), a leading critic of Bush's Iraq policy." [5]
John Kerry

On May 3, 2004, Morano penned the CNS article "Kerry 'Unfit to be Commander-in-Chief,' Say Former Military Colleagues". See Swift Boat Veterans for Truth article for details.
John Murtha

It was also Morano, with CNS's Randy Hall, who penned the January 2006, articles [6][7] for CNSNews.com casting aspersions on Rep. John Murtha's Vietnam War record and rehashing his involvement in the early-1980s Abscam scandal. See Swiftboating John Murtha for details.

64 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 3:59:25pm

Climate Depot which is another "non-profit" run by
Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow.

Annual Revenue & Expenses Additional Information
Fiscal Year Starting: Jan 01, 2011
Fiscal Year Ending: Dec 31, 2011
Revenue Total Revenue $2,985,194
Expenses Total Expenses $2,681,874

You'll have to sign in to read their 990 forms. Registration is free at Guidestar.

65 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:02:17pm

re: #58 Charles Johnson

Maybe Morano could illuminate us on how the UN is the Antichirst, a la his Texas Eagle Forum friends?

66 RadicalModerate  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:04:13pm

re: #64 Gus

Climate Depot which is another "non-profit" run by
Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow.

You'll have to sign in to read their 990 forms. Registration is free at Guidestar.

Why is it that almost all of the rightwing PACs and thinktanks have such blatantly Orwellian names to them?

67 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:04:38pm

Maybe Geller could have used this quote for her picture adverts?

I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you.

Ooopsss... wrong holy book...

68 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:04:43pm

Doha accomplished little to nothing again. The general gist of these meetings seems to be "give the developing countries billions of dollars and we'll forget about CO2 emissions."

69 darthstar  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:06:10pm

I could have fucking told you this.

Image: 526682_367727829990095_1607714672_n.jpg

70 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:06:14pm

I just watched part of Morano's "debate" with Bill Nye. What a horrible person.

It was easy to find numerous mentions at Morano's website about the 1935 Labor Day hurricane - I don't know whether he mentioned it in the debate (I had to stop watching, he was such a jackass), but it's definitely a talking point he's used before.

71 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:06:16pm

re: #1 bratwurst

Pam is essentially no different from Kim Kardashian at this point...getting publicity is her raison d'être.

Umm... not to go all, well, you know... but, Kim is a whole lot prettier than Pam.

In more than one way.

72 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:07:56pm

I'm taking a look at the cnn clip from two sources.

73 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:10:32pm

re: #70 Charles Johnson

I just watched part of Morano's "debate" with Bill Nye. What a horrible person.

[Embedded content]

It was easy to find numerous mentions at Morano's website about the 1935 Labor Day hurricane - I don't know whether he mentioned it in the debate (I had to stop watching, he was such a jackass), but it's definitely a talking point he's used before.

That "debate" of course is "peer reviewed science" for the wingnuts and Morano, in their minds, "handily disproved climate change once and for all!"

74 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:10:50pm

At the same time as he's pretending to be all outraged about a talking point he absolutely has used many times, he's also crowing that b_sharp said Bill Nye looked "outclassed:" [Link: climatedepot.com...]

76 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:11:52pm

WARMISTS CONCEDE BILL NYE 'LOOKED OUTCLASSED AND FLUSTERED' AGAINST CLIMATE DEPOT'S MORANO IN CNN PRIMETIME DEBATE ON PIERS MORGAN!!!!!

77 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:12:08pm

Morano is the Pamela Geller of climate change denial.

78 darthstar  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:13:14pm

re: #75 Gus

Cat Impressed by Cat-free Anti-gravity Christmas Tree

It looks more embarrassed by the Harry Potter poster.

79 darthstar  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:17:12pm
80 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:17:33pm

re: #68 Gus

Doha accomplished little to nothing again. The general gist of these meetings seems to be "give the developing countries billions of dollars and we'll forget about CO2 emissions."

In fairness to some of the developing countries, especially the AOSIS group and similar small nations, they often make a point that the money doesn't matter if they lose their nation. Thus many have pushed for radical changes in carbon consumption regardless of "funds".

81 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:18:09pm

re: #76 Charles Johnson

That's what you get when you legalize weed.

///

Or, alternate universe thinking.

83 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:19:52pm

re: #80 freetoken

In fairness to some of the developing countries, especially the AOSIS group and similar small nations, they often make a point that the money doesn't matter if they lose their nation. Thus many have pushed for radical changes in carbon consumption regardless of "funds".

I'm not faulting the developing countries but instead it's starting to look like this is a cop-out being pushed by developing countries.

84 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:21:35pm

Heh. "Outclassed." More like Gish Gallop word salad.

85 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:21:37pm

re: #82 Charles Johnson

To re-emphasize a statement I made on that Page, Morano doesn't care about the truth, it has little value to him. Morano is in it for the win, which to him means a higher place on the pecking order in this society (e.g., his time as an Inhofe go-fer.)

86 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:24:18pm

Evening Lizards.

So Pam has finally let her inner Harpy free. No surprise there. I only wonder what took her so long.

88 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:28:34pm

After an exhausting political season resulting in a landslide victory. I'm happy we are able to discuss the critical issues facing the world again.
Climate change is real. Like I watched a science show on tv showing how the ocean's base temp is rising and since the 80's the great reefs have been bleaching and dying out. The pictures are sobering.

89 darthstar  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:29:37pm

Okay...time to get ready to head up to the city. Going to see "Book of Mormon" tonight. Should be fun.

90 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:30:32pm

re: #89 darthstar

Okay...time to get ready to head up to the city. Going to see "Book of Mormon" tonight. Should be fun.

Taking all the wives with you?

91 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:30:43pm

I've been posting a few of the AGU videos from this week's annual meeting of said body.

Here is one from a session that discusses the "Anthropocene":

The first speaker has an English accent, which means even the wingnuts will think he's educated.

92 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:31:38pm

re: #77 Charles Johnson

Morano is the Pamela Geller of climate change denial.

Did you Tweet this? :)

93 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:32:06pm

re: #89 darthstar

Okay...time to get ready to head up to the city. Going to see "Book of Mormon" tonight. Should be fun.

They must have two productions running at the same time, because its on in Chicago as well.

94 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:35:36pm

That "debate" reminds me why so many scientists absolutely refuse to get drawn into "debates" with creationists. They've rehearsed an amazing number of deceptive and false talking points that they can just retch out in one long uninterrupted projectile vomit stream. It's pointless and foolish to lend them the credibility of pretending to debate, and give them a chance to confuse another audience.

95 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:42:08pm
Content Encoding Error
The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because it uses an invalid or unsupported form of compression.

Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.

Lately, like every 5th time I open LGF, this message comes up on Firefox.

97 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:43:37pm

re: #94 Charles Johnson

That "debate" reminds me why so many scientists absolutely refuse to get drawn into "debates" with creationists. They've rehearsed an amazing number of deceptive and false talking points that they can just retch out in one long uninterrupted projectile vomit stream. It's pointless and foolish to lend them the credibility of pretending to debate, and give them a chance to confuse another audience.

The written transcript shows how bad it was, Bill Nye seemingly didn't get a single rebuttal out without interruption.

*Warning denial site that has added links and comments to the transcript*
[Link: newsbusters.org...]

98 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:43:45pm

re: #96 Gus

Isn't he Alex Jones' bestest buddy?

99 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:45:53pm

re: #98 Amory Blaine

Isn't he Alex Jones' bestest buddy?

Yep. Also a favorite at National Review and other conservative venues.

100 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:48:30pm

re: #94 Charles Johnson

I think some enterprising page maker create a resource page on Climate Change. Everybody could put their favorite articles or Vids as links there.
Not long winded studies but their favorite articles in a page format.
One stop reading about the Climate.

101 CriticalDragon1177  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:50:01pm

Charles Johnson,

Isn't this what Pamela Geller does best? Exploiting things to spread bigotry, and paranoia?

102 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:51:12pm

re: #100 A Man for all Seasons

Did you just volunteer? ;)

104 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:55:03pm

re: #103 Gus

They are fans of each other.

105 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:56:29pm

re: #104 freetoken

They are fans of each other.

ACTION ALERT: Obama to Cede US Sovereignty in December!!!11ty

That was in 2009. Apparently Obama changed his mind. //

106 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:56:56pm

Monckton is one of the big mouths of the "UKIP", a political party that is politically in sympathy with Geller et. al.

One of the UKIP's big whig's sons used to post here, briefly, as "acidtrash" till I started to dig around his connections.

107 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:57:38pm

re: #105 Gus

ACTION ALERT: Obama to Cede US Sovereignty in December!!!11ty

That was in 2009. Apparently Obama changed his mind. //

Or he's a procrastinator

(I should have waited to post that!!)
/

108 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:58:19pm

re: #105 Gus

ACTION ALERT: Obama to Cede US Sovereignty in December!!!11ty

That was in 2009. Apparently Obama changed his mind. //

Comment there:

Yep--good work Pam--and obviously Rush is an Atlaser--he played Monkton's cut yesterday (10-19) at about 12:45.

As I see it, "the treaty" might be stopped, I hope it can be--by continuing to, and ever more effectively--and quickly--and hugely-- "Muslim-in-up" BHO. This means--refering to Barack as the "Dishonest Islamist," and as "Barack Shahada Obama:" because Barack certainly recited the Shahada as a school kid, at his Muslim school, in Jakarta (USAmericans need to know what the Shahada is, and what it means to recite it. Also call him "Barack Ashura Obama." Try to make as many USAmericans as possible know who Hussein was, and what Ashura is! And--of course-refer to Barack as "Barack Shariah Obama," because he does seem to be awful darn Shariah friendly these days.

Wilders is like Churchill allright, and so is Monkton, and many of us will probably have to be a lot Richard the Lion Heart before too long. Too bad, but what is--is!!

Posted by: DCTyke | Tuesday, October 20, 2009 at 11:50 AM

109 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:58:25pm

re: #102 Amory Blaine

Did you just volunteer? ;)

Nay, The page needs a good editor to divide by topics and give it the attention such an important page requires.
I'd love to scan and read articles about rising Ocean temps.

110 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:59:34pm

re: #107 sattv4u2

Or he's a procrastinator

(I should have waited to post that!!)
/

Obama's future plans are like end of the world scenarios. Every year they come out with a new one. For instance, next year Obama will definitely be taking people's guns away. Just you see. //

111 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 4:59:36pm

One event, two ways of looking at it:

First is from your (American) official outlet:

UN Climate Conference Extends Kyoto Protocol To 2020

The other from a well known environment journalist:

Another Disappointing Climate Meeting Draws to a Close

112 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:00:19pm

re: #94 Charles Johnson

That "debate" reminds me why so many scientists absolutely refuse to get drawn into "debates" with creationists. They've rehearsed an amazing number of deceptive and false talking points that they can just retch out in one long uninterrupted projectile vomit stream. It's pointless and foolish to lend them the credibility of pretending to debate, and give them a chance to confuse another audience.

But these gish-galloping goons still get to spew their talking points in other venues (*cough* Fox *cough*), and they need to be rebutted at some point lest they gain traction through the sheer force of repetition (i.e. the old "repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth" trick)

Ideally, there needs to be a strategy to preempt these lies before they even start, or shut down them down when they try to pick up momentum. I think I heard it said that Joe Biden in the VP debate shot down the gish gallop method before Ryan could get it going - do you think scientists and others could learn from that?

113 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:05:25pm

re: #110 Gus

Obama's future plans are like end of the world scenarios. Every year they come out with a new one. For instance, next year Obama will definitely be taking people's guns away. Just you see. //

Reminds me of all the sooper seeekrit plans that Cheney had as puppet master behind the scenes!!!

((cue Twilight Zone Music))

114 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:07:33pm

re: #112 Interesting Times

But these gish-galloping goons still get to spew their talking points in other venues (*cough* Fox *cough*), and they need to be rebutted at some point...

The problem with the "rebutting" is that the audience for such is quite small.

For example, the AGU video I posted upstream will be watched by a few hundred people, over a considerable period of time.

One a single night, Hannity will have a couple of million people watch his deception, for example.

Morano has an audience because he tells them what they want to hear.

115 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:08:01pm

Ugandans are so sneaky they even fooled Bryan...


Not that fooling Bryan is particularly difficult mind you...

116 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:11:30pm

re: #113 sattv4u2

Reminds me of all the sooper seeekrit plans that Cheney had as puppet master behind the scenes!!!

((cue Twilight Zone Music))

Back then I remember the never ending martial law talk. "Bush is going to impose martial law, just you wait and see!!"

117 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:13:14pm

re: #116 Gus

Back then I remember the never ending martial law talk. "Bush is going to impose martial law, just you wait and see!!"

Hell. Remember the early 60's? Kennedy had a direct line from The Vatican so Pope John XXIII could dictate US policy
/

118 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:15:02pm

re: #112 Interesting Times

But these gish-galloping goons still get to spew their talking points in other venues (*cough* Fox *cough*), and they need to be rebutted at some point lest they gain traction through the sheer force of repetition (i.e. the old "repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth" trick)

Ideally, there needs to be a strategy to preempt these lies before they even start, or shut down them down when they try to pick up momentum. I think I heard it said that Joe Biden in the VP debate shot down the gish gallop method before Ryan could get it going - do you think scientists and others could learn from that?

That's a good point, but remember that Biden also was heavily criticized for being too strident -- and he was actually fairly good-natured about it too. It's a very tricky line to walk when you start trying to take it to shills like Morano on their own terms, because it can quickly turn into an unpleasant shouting match that nobody wins.

There are some people, like Biden, who can do this kind of confrontational debating and not come off looking like an asshole, but not Bill Nye. He's too thoughtful.

And by the way, Piers Morgan sucks.

119 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:18:32pm

re: #114 freetoken

The problem with the "rebutting" is that the audience for such is quite small.

I'm not talking about substance, but style (yes, I know it's just one of many things horribly wrong with the human race, but since it won't change, one has to work with it)

Going back to my Biden example, what's the one thing that sticks out in the minds of nearly everyone with so much as a vague memory of the debate? Biden calling Ryan's arguments "malarkey." We don't remember what Ryan said, we just remember Biden calling it "malarkey." That's what putting a brick wall in the path of a gish-gallop looks like - instead of remembering the torrent of lies and half-truths, people remember your simple, straightforward dismissal of same.

Hell, if I were to appear on a "debate" with Moron Morano, I'd be sorely tempted to say something like, "my opponent, an oil industry shill, encourages his readers to send death threats to climate scientists. His argument is irrelevant".

120 kirkspencer  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:22:16pm

re: #119 Interesting Times

I'm not talking about substance, but style (yes, I know it's just one of many things horribly wrong with the human race, but since it won't change, one has to work with it)

Going back to my Biden example, what's the one thing that sticks out in the minds of nearly everyone with so much as a vague memory of the debate? Biden calling Ryan's arguments "malarkey." We don't remember what Ryan said, we just remember Biden calling it "malarkey." That's what putting a brick wall in the path of a gish-gallop looks like - instead of remembering the torrent of lies and half-truths, people remember your simple, straightforward dismissal of same.

Hell, if I were to appear on a "debate" with Moron Morano, I'd be sorely tempted to say something like, "my opponent, an oil industry shill, encourages his readers to send death threats to climate scientists. His argument is irrelevant".

Mr Morano, tell me, does your nose grow if you tell the truth?

121 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:22:37pm

re: #119 Interesting Times


His argument is irrelevant".

122 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:25:04pm
To the dismay of gay rights activist worldwide, the mainstream media, including the Associated Press and the BBC, keep falling for the lies of Ugandan officials who tell them the “death for gays” provision has been dropped, only to find out later that it hasn’t. It’s happened at least fifteen times now over the past three years (it’s gone, no it’s not). AP is the latest to fall for this lie, unquestioned.
123 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:27:44pm

Marc Morano, by the way, like Christopher Monckton, has been a frequent guest on the Alex Jones conspiracy circus show. There are numerous videos on the Alex Jones channel at YouTube.

People like this shouldn't be on CNN, in my opinion, but that's Piers Morgan.

124 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:28:53pm

Derp.

125 kirkspencer  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:29:04pm

re: #123 Charles Johnson

Marc Morano, by the way, like Christopher Monckton, has been a frequent guest on the Alex Jones conspiracy circus show. There are numerous videos on the Alex Jones channel at YouTube.

People like this shouldn't be on CNN, in my opinion, but that's Piers Morgan.

Hey, once they set the bar with Erick Erickson...

126 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:29:53pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

That's a good point, but remember that Biden also was heavily criticized for being too strident -- and he was actually fairly good-natured about it too. It's a very tricky line to walk when you start trying to take it to shills like Morano on their own terms, because it can quickly turn into an unpleasant shouting match that nobody wins.

Is it about "winning", or is about looking like you put up a good fight? That's one reason Obama got so thoroughly slammed - by his own side - for that infamous first debate. He came across as not willing to put up a fight, and in the shallow reality-TV world we live in, that equals a "loss" even when you have the facts on your side.

And one way to avoid getting drawn into a shouting match is to simply not shout - assume a smiling, laughing, dismissive demeanor like Biden did (naturally the idiot corporate media will spin that negatively, but I note this time, it didn't work with the public at large).

Even if you don't "win", at least you can look like you didn't "lose", or let an evil, blathering bully like morano push you around.

127 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:32:14pm

re: #125 kirkspencer

Hey, once they set the bar with Erick Erickson...

And Nancy Grace
and Fareed Zakaria
and Roland Martin
and,,,,,,,

128 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:34:46pm

re: #124 Gus

[Embedded content]

Derp.

Inverted morality.

129 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:34:51pm

re: #126 Interesting Times

Yeah, I agree, thats the ideal. Unfortunately, not everybody has the temperament to do that successfully - in fact, it's probably rare. And among scientists, even rarer - they're the type of people, like Nye, who actually think about what they say before it comes out of their mouths. Which puts them at a disadvantage with a propaganda firehose like Morano.

130 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:35:13pm

re: #127 sattv4u2

And Nancy Grace
and Fareed Zakaria
and Roland Martin
and,,,,,,,

Erick Erickson
Lou Dobbs
Glenn Beck
Dana Loesch

131 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:36:55pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

Inverted morality.

Position on page 84 in the Kama Sutra!?!?!?!

132 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:37:18pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

Inverted morality.

White male privilege wins out even behind bars. Ironically Manning's handiwork could have lent support to Malala's enemies. Who suffers the most in Pakistan and Afghanistan if now women and young girls? Instead, with Manning the manarchist emoprogs can relate with Manning because they're cut from the same societal cloth. They see themselves as Manning and not as Malala.

133 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:38:17pm

Then again, I don't read The Guardian since most of it remains utter flapdoodle.

134 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:38:38pm

re: #130 Gus

Erick Erickson
Lou Dobbs
Glenn Beck
Dana Loesch

Fareed Zacharia is the closest thing they have to an intellectual and his articles are written by his interns plagiarizing wikipedia. Fake pundit TV characters.

135 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:40:22pm

re: #134 Killgore Trout

Fareed Zakaria:

Zakaria attended the Cathedral and John Connon School in Mumbai. He received a Bachelor of Arts from Yale University,[1] where he was president of the Yale Political Union, editor-in-chief of the Yale Political Monthly, a member of the Scroll and Key society, and a member of the Party of the Right. He later earned a Doctor of Philosophy in political science from Harvard University in 1993,[1] where he studied under Samuel P. Huntington and Stanley Hoffmann, as well as international relations theorist Robert Keohane.[3]

136 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:40:55pm

re: #134 Killgore Trout

He has a Ph.D. from Harvard. Doesn't sound like a fake pundit to me.

137 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:42:16pm

Erick Erickson has a PhD in the fine art of man-on-goat copulation.

138 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:46:51pm

re: #132 Gus

White male privilege wins out even behind bars. Ironically Manning's handiwork could have lent support to Malala's enemies. Who suffers the most in Pakistan and Afghanistan if now women and young girls? Instead, with Manning the manarchist emoprogs can relate with Manning because they're cut from the same societal cloth. They see themselves as Manning and not as Malala.

It's a shame but that's the way it works. Last year Time named "the protester" the person of the year. Although they left it open to interpretation to include the Arab Spring protesters the image they used was an OWS idiot. Instead of congratulating poor brown people far away for fighting oppression they used it to aggrandize rich white American leftists for their crappy protest movement that only lasted a few months before it fizzled. Secularists in the middle east and poor girls in Pakistan fighting for an education just can't match up to our desire to congratulate ourselves.

139 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:47:13pm

re: #124 Gus

[Embedded content]

Derp.

WTF?!?

A seditious, self-important tool, who betrayed his oath to honorably serve his country and was used and abused by Julian Assange to air America's (and other countries') dirty laundry and left to rot, is winning an opinion poll over a true hero for her people, someone who was almost killed for taking a principled stand and who will certainly carry those scars for the rest of her life?

Bunch of shitheads, they are; probably Paulian types spamming the polls.

140 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:47:22pm
141 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:50:01pm

re: #58 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile Marc Morano is pitching a fit over b_sharp's latest Page on his "debate" with Bill Nye: [Link: www.climatedepot.com...]

Here's the page:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I screwed up Charles.
I revised the page, with an apology to Morano and you.

142 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:50:05pm

re: #136 Charles Johnson

He has a Ph.D. from Harvard. Doesn't sound like a fake pundit to me.

I'm not saying he's stupid, he's just a very overrated "thinker". I'll freely admit he's far better than anything on Fox or MSNBC, but still not very good. I still read his articles sometimes.

143 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:51:30pm
144 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:53:23pm

re: #76 Charles Johnson

WARMISTS CONCEDE BILL NYE 'LOOKED OUTCLASSED AND FLUSTERED' AGAINST CLIMATE DEPOT'S MORANO IN CNN PRIMETIME DEBATE ON PIERS MORGAN!!!!!

Bill was up against the Gish Gallup. It takes far more energy and practice to defend against non-stop 10 second sound bites than it does to memorize and regurgitate those sound bites.

145 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:53:43pm

re: #141 b_sharp

You're famous now tho. kudos

146 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:54:22pm

Faked out by fake Henry Aaron on twitter. Thanks Weed Dude.

147 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:55:44pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Remember Marc Hauser?

It was quite the scandal.

You have to wonder why guys like Zakaria and Hauser do what they do- it isn't as if they don't have the horsepower.

The need for the limelight, I supppose

148 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:56:48pm

re: #141 b_sharp

The high road taken.

Well done.

149 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:57:11pm

re: #141 b_sharp

I screwed up Charles.

I revised the page, with an apology to Morano and you.

Thanks for that, b. It's not a problem - Morano may not have said it in that TV appearance, and it's right to correct the record for accuracy, but the essential point is not wrong. Morano and the climate change denial community frequently use the 1935 Labor Day hurricane as a deceptive talking point.

150 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:57:22pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

I'm not saying he's stupid, he's just a very overrated "thinker". I'll freely admit he's far better than anything on Fox or MSNBC, but still not very good. I still read his articles sometimes.

There are a lot of people with Ph.D's I wouldn't give a warm bucket of spit for (as journalists/ commentators)

Michael (Weiner) Savage comes to mind

151 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:58:24pm

re: #145 Stanghazi

You're famous now tho. kudos

For the wrong thing.

I think I'm going to start debunking Morano's bull shit on a regular basis.

152 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:59:08pm

re: #151 b_sharp

Don't sweat it.

153 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 5:59:15pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

In other news, Snoop Smokes 81 Blunts a Day.

Who does the counting? Nobody could keep track of their own if it's that many.

154 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:00:14pm

re: #153 wrenchwench

Who does the counting? Nobody could keep track of their own if it's that many.

1, 2, 3,,,,,, 4,,,,,,,,, ummmmm,,,, 11evnty,,,, errrr,,, dude ,,, 81 ,,,,,

155 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:05:31pm

re: #151 b_sharp

For the wrong thing.

There's no such thing as bad publicity, I've always been told.

156 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:06:29pm

re: #147 researchok

Remember Marc Hauser?

It was quite the scandal.

You have to wonder why guys like Zakaria and Hauser do what they do- it isn't as if they don't have the horsepower.

The need for the limelight, I supppose

I remember that one. I think people just get lazy. As a grad student I learned that professors use their graduate students to do research for them. A good professor takes student research and processes it, reworks it and includes the information in a larger paper for publication. A shitty professor just copies it into his own work. I learned this after seeing large sections of my own writing appear in one of my professor's books.
I think for a lot of these pundits there's a rush to publish more stuff than they are capable of producing on their own. A completely fake pundit (like Glenn Beck) has enough sense to hire ghost writers and researchers to do the work. Someone on the cusp like Zacharia just sometimes gets lazy and publishes the intern's work.

157 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:07:09pm

re: #134 Killgore Trout

Fareed Zacharia is the closest thing they have to an intellectual and his articles are written by his interns plagiarizing wikipedia.

So John Podhoretz's entirely unsupported speculation that Zacharia's articles are written by interns is now something you repeat as if it's an established fact?

158 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:11:18pm

Morano isn't worth apologizing to, in my opinion, but others may be more gracious than I.

If you really want to investigate him, you might look into his time as an Inhofe go-fer, and his (and Inhofe's) role in the felonious (I suspect in certain jurisdictions) theft of emails they like to call CLIMATEGATE!

The numerous distortions Morano still has on his website and which he shouts on every media appearance is what he is paid to do. The question is who is paying him, and through what methods.

159 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:11:42pm

re: #157 goddamnedfrank

So John Podhoretz's entirely unsupported speculation that Zacharia's articles are written by interns is now something you repeat as if it's an established fact?

How about his own admission of plagiarism. Does that count?

160 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:13:01pm

re: #157 goddamnedfrank

So John Podhoretz's entirely unsupported speculation that Zacharia's articles are written by interns is now something you repeat as if it's an established fact?

Fareed Zakaria's Plagiarism: Even Worse Than It Looks (huffington Post)

Jim Sleeper
Lecturer in Political Science, Yale University

I think Columbia Journalism Review did a good article about it too. It's not a secret, these things happen.

161 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:14:12pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

In other news, Snoop Smokes 81 Blunts a Day.

re: #153 wrenchwench

Who does the counting? Nobody could keep track of their own if it's that many.

re: #154 sattv4u2

1, 2, 3,,,,,, 4,,,,,,,,, ummmmm,,,, 11evnty,,,, errrr,,, dude ,,, 81 ,,,,,

Sounds like Snoop's been doing his best Smokey (from Friday) imitation...

;-P

162 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:14:15pm

Later, lizards.

163 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:14:56pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

Fareed Zakaria's Plagiarism: Even Worse Than It Looks (huffington Post)

I think Columbia Journalism Review did a good article about it too. It's not a secret, these things happen.

His apology in no way said that an intern wrote it. That's the bit that you're just tacking on.

I know, I know: You're being inaccurate and sloppy while castigating someone for sloppily having interns do the work. It's performance art.

164 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:15:38pm

re: #162 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Later, lizards.

Cool chop there...agree with the message, though.

165 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:15:50pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

In other news, Snoop Smokes 81 Blunts a Day.

You could get carpel tunnel rolling those everyday!!

166 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:17:31pm

re: #165 Amory Blaine

You could get carpel tunnel rolling those everyday!!

c'mon

with his bucks, he MUST have one (or several) of these!!!

[Link: www.google.com...]

167 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:17:35pm

re: #158 freetoken

Morano isn't worth apologizing to, in my opinion, but others may be more gracious than I.

If you really want to investigate him, you might look into his time as an Inhofe go-fer, and his (and Inhofe's) role in the felonious (I suspect in certain jurisdictions) theft of emails they like to call CLIMATEGATE!

The numerous distortions Morano still has on his website and which he shouts on every media appearance is what he is paid to do. The question is who is paying him, and through what methods.

I'm familiar with his time with Inhofe. He was a hack then as he is now.

169 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:18:06pm

re: #157 goddamnedfrank

So John Podhoretz's entirely unsupported speculation that Zacharia's articles are written by interns is now something you repeat as if it's an established fact?

Columbia Journalism Review
Fareed Zakaria’s “mistake”

Zakaria also told the Times that he had reluctantly hired a research assistant to help him handle the workload, but that the assistant did not draft his articles. If his more complete explanation turns out to be that he is taking the bullet for a research assistant, readers at CNN.com and Time deserve to know that, too, and deserve to know what he’s doing to cut down on his workload so that he can be fully responsible for the work that bears his name. And reporters deserve to know the name of the research assistant, not to embarrass him or her but so that they can interview him or her to verify the story.

He pretty much admitted how the "mistake" happened. It's not some wingnut conspiracy.

170 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:21:00pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

Actually, no. He's said the mistake was entirely his fault, while not being direct plagiarism. You're trying to claim that him specifically saying that his assistant didn't write articles is saying that he said that his assistant writes his articles. You then extrapolate from that that this is just something that always goes on-- that he'd continue to do that, even after that monumental fuckup.

I don't even like Zakaria, but they also did a very thorough review of all his other work and found none, zero, zip incidences of concern. At all.

Funny how you leave that bit out.

171 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:21:20pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

Columbia Journalism Review
Fareed Zakaria’s “mistake”

He pretty much admitted how the "mistake" happened. It's not some wingnut conspiracy.

Basically Zacharia thought he was ripping off his research assistant with realizing his research assistant was ripping off someone else. He should hire better assistants and this wouldn't happen.

172 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:23:05pm

How many paragraphs do you think Fareed Zakaria wrote on his way to a Ph.D. from Harvard? Because this horrible plagiarism scandal promoted by the right wing is about exactly ONE paragraph.

If that's the standard, every right wing blogger is guilty of plagiarism, because all they do is parrot each other's work and change a few words, every single day.

173 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:25:10pm

Egypt's Morsi annuls decree, referendum remains

Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi has annulled a decree he issued last month that gave him far-reaching powers and triggered a wave of violent protests across the country.

The announcement came after several hours of talks between the president, the vice president and a number of public and political figures in Egypt.

Vice president Mahmoud Mekki said in a referendum on a draft constitution will go ahead as planned on December 15.

The main opposition figures heading the National Salvation Front had boycotted the meeting and had earlier called for their supporters to take to the streets.

Egypt has been deeply polarised and has plunged into a new wave of violence since the announcement of the decree in November.

The move was denounced as a dictatorial "power grab" by the opposition, but one Mr Morsi had defended as necessary to protect reforms.

"The constitutional decree is annulled from this moment," said Selim al-Awa, an Islamist politician and advisor to Mr Morsi.

More...

174 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:26:47pm

re: #173 Usually refered to as anyways

175 CuriousLurker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:27:47pm

*SIGH* Freaking Geller again.

For anyone who's interested, there's now a complete scanned tafsir (Qur'anic exegesis) available online titled Ma'arif ul Quran (The Wisdom of the Qur'an).

There are a number of tafsirs that have been written over the centuries. This particular one is well-known, widely translated, and was originally written in Urdu (completed in the late 1970's and translated into English by the author's son). It's also fairly easy for the layman to understand

Somewhat annoyingly, the website uses frames so you can't easily bookmark specific pages, nonetheless it's fairly easy to find what you want as long as long as you have a surah (chapter) name or number. Once you're at the appropriate chapter, just click on the list of verses at the top of the page and you'll be taken to the verse(s) in Arabic which will be followed by an English translation/interpretation, the context of the verses, and the scholarly commentary on them.

Hopefully this will help with the cherry-pickers.

176 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:29:13pm

re: #140 Gus

[Embedded content]

177 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:29:18pm

The wife and I are watching the 7 month old grandson tonight. What a demanding little hand full. Cute as hell, blazing red hair with a temper to match.

He loves taking a bath in the tub as long as he gets to paddle around without restriction.

I'm pretty sure he pulled large chunks of hair out of my beard.

178 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:30:38pm

re: #177 b_sharp

The wife and I are watching the 7 month old grandson tonight. What a demanding little hand full. Cute as hell, blazing red hair with a temper to match.

He loves taking a bath in the tub as long as he gets to paddle around without restriction.

I'm pretty sure he pulled large chunks of hair out of my beard.

Time to slip a little Yukon Jack into his nighty night bottle!!!

179 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:30:53pm

re: #174 Gus

[Embedded content]

I think that's accurate.

180 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:30:53pm

re: #177 b_sharp

re: #178 sattv4u2

Time to slip a little Yukon Jack into his nighty night bottle!!!

or into yours!!

181 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:31:14pm

re: #176 TedStriker

[Embedded content]

It's an insult to Malala. The Guardian is a hopeless case.

182 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:32:45pm

re: #172 Charles Johnson

How many paragraphs do you think Fareed Zakaria wrote on his way to Ph.D. from Harvard? Because this horrible plagiarism scandal promoted by the right wing is about exactly ONE paragraph.

If that's the standard, every right wing blogger is guilty of plagiarism, because all they do is parrot each other's work and change a few words, every single day.

They say nothing of the massive plagiarism by Wegman and Said in the paper used to vilify Michael Mann.

183 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:34:07pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

Time to slip a little Yukon Jack into his nighty night bottle!!!

A little spiced Bacardi rum.

184 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:35:13pm

re: #183 b_sharp

A little spiced Bacardi rum.

For you, or him??? (or both!!)

185 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:35:47pm

re: #184 sattv4u2

For you, or him??? (or both!!)

Yes.

186 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:35:56pm

re: #181 Gus

It's an insult to Malala. The Guardian is a hopeless case.

Refresh my memory, but wasn't the Guardian given an exclusive when Assange and WL did a document dump in the beginning from some of the material that Manning lifted?

187 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:36:26pm

re: #186 TedStriker

Refresh my memory, but wasn't the Guardian given an exclusive when Assange and WL did a document dump from some of the material that Manning lifted?

I think so.

188 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:36:31pm

re: #185 b_sharp

Yes.

:)

189 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:37:40pm

re: #186 TedStriker

Refresh my memory, but wasn't the Guardian given an exclusive when Assange and WL did a document dump from some of the material that Manning lifted?

So yeah. It's almost a conflict of interest once you start becoming that connected to a story or a cause. The Guardian is activist journalism.

190 Political Atheist  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:38:52pm

Been watching CNN's Heroes tonight. Anderson Cooper. And real heroes. Great inspiring stuff right there right now on CNN.

191 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:44:48pm

Gee. I just learned something new tonight. "Free Palestine" is code for "Death to the Jews." This is why I largely avoid those pages.

192 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:44:48pm

re: #173 Usually refered to as anyways

Egypt's Morsi annuls decree, referendum remains

I think that's closing the barn door after the cow was left (or whatever the proverb is)
He needed the decree to ram through the draft constitution without the court stepping in to annul it. Now that the constitution has been drafted and is set for referendum he doesn't really need the decree anymore. If the court steps in to stop the vote he's just going to change his mind. I think it's a hollow gesture.

193 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:45:29pm

re: #173 Usually refered to as anyways

Egypt's Morsi annuls decree, referendum remains

Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi has annulled a decree he issued last month that gave him far-reaching powers and triggered a wave of violent protests across the country.

[...]

The move was denounced as a dictatorial "power grab" by the opposition, but one Mr Morsi had defended as necessary to protect reforms.

More...

Yeah, I'll buy that for a dollar...

///

194 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:46:43pm

re: #191 Gus

Gee. I just learned something new tonight. "Free Palestine" is code for "Death to the Jews." This is why I largely avoid those pages.

I'm not sure if you understand what Hamas is getting at here....

Palestine is ours from the river to the sea

That means something pretty specific.

195 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:47:03pm

re: #193 TedStriker

Mr Stalin Hitler Jog Il Hussein Assad Morsi had defended as necessary to protect reforms.

I've seen this movie before

Yeah, I'll buy that for a dollar...

///

196 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:48:46pm

re: #194 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure if you understand what Hamas is getting at here....

That means something pretty specific.

Bleh. Yeah, I can understand that. But EI is connecting to something larger.

“From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” Code for “Kill the Jews.” We, those of us who stand for Israel’s right to exist in the San Francisco Bay Area, hear this every time the haters show up to bash Jews and Israel.

So all these "haters" protesting in San Francisco want to kill Jews? Is this a scientific study?

197 CuriousLurker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:50:40pm

re: #175 CuriousLurker

*SIGH* Freaking Geller again.

For anyone who's interested, there's now a complete scanned tafsir (Qur'anic exegesis) titled Ma'arif ul Quran (The Wisdom of the Qur'an) available online.

There are a number of tafsirs that have been written over the centuries. This particular one is well-known, widely translated, and was originally written in Urdu (completed in the late 1970's and translated into English by the author's son). It's also fairly easy for the layman to understand

Somewhat annoyingly, the website uses frames so you can't easily bookmark specific pages, nonetheless it's fairly easy to find what you want as long as long as you have a surah (chapter) name or number. Once you're at the appropriate chapter, just click on the list of verses at the top of the page and you'll be taken to the verse(s) in Arabic which will be followed by an English translation/interpretation, the context of the verses, and the scholarly commentary on them.

Hopefully this will help with the cherry-pickers.

Addendum: If you read the two verses before the one Geller cherry-picked (i.e. 149-150), you'll have a better understanding of the battle that was going on, who the "unbelievers" were, and how they were attempting to sway the Muslims.

198 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:51:11pm

re: #196 Gus

Bleh. Yeah, I can understand that. But EI is connecting to something larger.

So all these "haters" protesting in San Francisco want to kill Jews? Is this a scientific study?

I'm looking for the error bars.

199 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:52:02pm

Remember that the person who posted that also put a lot of LGF users on a list of "enemies of free speech." There's probably a limit to my patience here.

200 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:52:21pm

re: #198 b_sharp

I'm looking for the error bars.

I'm looking for the Martini bars!

201 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:53:43pm

re: #196 Gus

So all these "haters" protesting in San Francisco want to kill Jews? Is this a scientific study?

I would guess that actually very few westerners chanting that actually understand what it means. Useful idiots but it still does have meaning even if the moonbats chanting it don't understand.

202 Kaessa  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:54:38pm

re: #199 Charles Johnson

Remember that the person who posted that also put a lot of LGF users on list of "enemies of free speech." There's probably a limit to my patience here.

I thought it was funny that I was on that list. I think he just grabbed names at random. I'm only a hatchling, and I hardly ever post.

203 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:55:08pm

re: #199 Charles Johnson

Remember that the person who posted that also put a lot of LGF users on list of "enemies of free speech." There's probably a limit to my patience here.

WhoooZat??

204 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:55:35pm

re: #196 Gus

Bleh. Yeah, I can understand that. But EI is connecting to something larger.

So all these "haters" protesting in San Francisco want to kill Jews? Is this a scientific study?

What gets me is that recently he's advocated some pretty shady positions himself.

In a more perfect world, Judea and Samaria would be annexed and be made into a greater Israel. It's their land, after all.

I'm curious as to what happens to the Palestinians in that scenario? Do they become Israeli citizens, are they expelled, or what?

205 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:55:44pm

re: #199 Charles Johnson

Remember that the person who posted that also put a lot of LGF users on list of "enemies of free speech." There's probably a limit to my patience here.

EI's just pushing and pushing for them tasty martyr cookies, aren't they?

206 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:56:58pm

re: #204 goddamnedfrank

What gets me is that recently he's advocated some pretty shady positions himself.

I'm curious as to what happens to the Palestinians in that scenario? Do they become Israeli citizens, are they expelled, or what?

Getting a very Kahanist vibe from that comment.

207 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:57:41pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

I would guess that actually very few westerners chanting that actually understand what it means. Useful idiots but it still does have meaning even if the moonbats chanting it don't understand.

There are definitely Palestinians who want Israel to be destroyed and the entire territory to be theirs without wanting to kill all the Jews, though.

208 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:01:57pm

re: #158 freetoken

Morano isn't worth apologizing to, in my opinion, but others may be more gracious than I.

Absolutely! These evil creeps take apologies as a sign of weakness, and an admission they were right all along:

Durr hurr, he said he made a mistake, therefore all climate science is fake! Herpity Derpity do.

Why give them ammunition? Yes, a correction should made when needed, but keep it completely factual and devoid of any "mea culpa". Or, do the classic non-apology apology, as in, "With all the lies they tell, one can easily slip up and get confused as to when and where they told those lies" ;)

209 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:03:12pm

re: #191 Gus

Unfortunately, if the conversation is about Hamas that is usually the case.

Friom the Hamas Charter to statements by Hamas officials the public record is replete with examples of racism (articles, audio,video, etc). Just this week, Meshaal categorically refused to recogniase Israel. vaguely referring to the 'liberation of all of Palestine'. Last week he promised a third Intifada. How much of that is rhetoric? Probably most of it. But when you live next door it is far more difficult to be sanguine.

The PA's 'struggle' is far less religious and more secular/political. As such there is far less religious bigotry.

That's another reason there is so much fog- who speaks for the Palestinians? Can a independent Palestine tolerate two armed factions with very different agendas? Look at Lebanon with Hizbollah as state within a state.

And we haven't even begun to discuss a (Hamas led) free state whose principal agenda who in their iown words, is the destruction of Israel.

Too many dysfunctional political agendas continue to cripple the Palestinian right to self determination. The average Palestinian pays the price- as usual.

210 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:04:56pm

re: #208 Interesting Times

I'm all for correcting one's own writings to make them more accurate.

But that is different than "apologizing".

AFAI concerned, Morano is so far over the line of reasonable discourse in a modernized world, with his own scurrilous attacks on various parties, that all I have left for him is derision.

211 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:05:15pm

re: #174 Gus

Tom Gara @tomgara
Morsi's decree was the classic SCAF move of creating new problems that distract from old ones. Works perfectly every time.

It is all just a tiny part of Obama's plot to hand the entire middle east over to the Muslim brotherhood. At least that is what everyone is saying over at Moonbattery and Free Republic.

///

212 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:08:51pm

re: #209 researchok

Unfortunately, if the conversation is about Hamas that is usually the case.

From the Hamas Charter to statements by Hamas officials the public record is replete with examples of racism (articles, audio,video, etc). Just this week, Meshaal categorically refused to recogniase Israel. vaguely referring to the 'liberation of all of Palestine'. Last week he promised a third Intifada. How much of that is rhetoric? Probably most of it. But when you live next door it is far more difficult to be sanguine.

The PA's 'struggle' is far less religious and more secular/political. As such there is far less religious bigotry.

That's another reason there is so much fog- who speaks for the Palestinians? Can a independent Palestine tolerate two armed factions with very different agendas? Look at Lebanon with Hizbollah as state within a state.

And we haven't even begun to discuss a (Hamas led) free state whose principal agenda who in their iown words, is the destruction of Israel?

Too many dysfunctional political agendas continue to cripple the Palestinian right to self determination. The average Palestinian pays the price- as usual.

I accept that. But we can't assume that this is true for everyone that utters a very common phrase, "free Palestine." The more troubling aspect of that report is "he would never recognize Israel." Announcing settlements in E1 didn't help to a lesser or more existential degree.

213 blueraven  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:10:14pm

As far as Fahreed Zakaria goes. I dont always agree with him on everything...but his is one of the only cable news shows that ever talk about anything other than the topic of the day.

He has interesting guests with opposing view points and there is not a bunch of screeching rhetoric and talking points.

He apologized unequivocally for the one occurrence of plagiarism.

214 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:12:46pm

The average Palestinian is not much different from the rest of us.

He wants a good job, save to but a house or apartment, take care of his wife and kids, be a host to family and friends, etc.

Instead, he a leadership that absolutely fears a real Palestinian middle class. Why? Because a middle class empowers people- they have a good life, the opportunity to succeed and advance and get educated- and an educated middle class is the most dangerous threat these dysfunctional regimes fear most because an educated population will hold government accountable.

I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.

If this topic interests you see this: The Mystery Of The Invisible Palestinian Middle Class

215 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:14:33pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

In other news, Snoop Smokes 81 Blunts a Day.

Wouldn't that be deadly?

216 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:15:20pm

re: #212 Gus

No argument with any of that.

There are so many competing interests and so many agenda, we get overwhelmed and overloaded with agendized noise- all designed to obscure reality.

As I have noted many times, what drives me up the wall is how an entire population are used as pawns and fodder for some very bad people.

217 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:16:30pm

re: #214 researchok

The average Palestinian is not much different from the rest of us.

He wants a good job, save to but a house or apartment, take care of his wife and kids, be a host to family and friends, etc.

Instead, he a leadership that absolutely fears a real Palestinian middle class. Why? Because a middle class empowers people- they have a good life, the opportunity to succeed and advance and get educated- and an educated middle class is the most dangerous threat these dysfunctional regimes fear most because an educated population will hold government accountable.

I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.

If this topic interests you see this: The Mystery Of The Invisible Palestinian Middle Class

Free Palestine!

From Hamas. :D

218 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:18:14pm

re: #207 Obdicut

There are definitely Palestinians who want Israel to be destroyed and the entire territory to be theirs without wanting to kill all the Jews, though.

Even so, that doesn't matter much. They seek the violent deportation of people different from them in order to satisfy their notions of religious or ethnic 'destiny'. Even if they don't want genocide, they still want ethnic cleansing, and that has never been done without large-scale bloodshed.

219 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:19:06pm

re: #217 Gus

You have no idea how real- and prescient those remarks are.

220 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:19:30pm

re: #214 researchok

The average Palestinian is not much different from the rest of us.

He wants a good job, save to but a house or apartment, take care of his wife and kids, be a host to family and friends, etc.

Instead, he a leadership that absolutely fears a real Palestinian middle class. Why? Because a middle class empowers people- they have a good life, the opportunity to succeed and advance and get educated- and an educated middle class is the most dangerous threat these dysfunctional regimes fear most because an educated population will hold government accountable.

I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.

If this topic interests you see this: The Mystery Of The Invisible Palestinian Middle Class

This is a topic George Orwell understood very well.

221 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:20:14pm

A funny I got, courtesy of Gus:

222 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:20:28pm

re: #219 researchok

You have no idea how real- and prescient those remarks are.

Mine or yours?

223 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:20:28pm

re: #218 Dark_Falcon

Even so, that doesn't matter much. They seek the violent deportation of people different from them in order to satisfy their notions of religious or ethnic 'destiny'. Even if they don't want genocide, they still want ethnic cleansing, and that has never been done without large-scale bloodshed.

Yes, it does matter. We can draw clear distinctions between the evils without conflating them.

224 Political Atheist  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:20:44pm

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

I don't believe it unless he's counting what he passes around to his entourage. Pot might present the least risk of overdose of all the recreational drugs.

225 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:21:00pm

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

Ain't that the truth

226 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:21:31pm

re: #222 Gus

Yours

Really.

As they say, something has to give. And will, in my opinion.

227 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:22:13pm

re: #224 Political Atheist

I don't believe it unless he's counting what he passes around to his entourage. Pot might be the least risk of overdose of all the recreational drugs.

If Snoop really was smoking all that bud, he'd have lungs that looked like the LaBrea Tar Pits...and be as big as a house.

228 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:22:18pm

Ok, here is another presentation from the AGU, session C43E, but I've linked the youtube video to the slide in the last presentation that has the money shot:


It's quite clear from the Canadian Arctic data that the last 100 years has reversed the slow temperature decline of the past 5000 years (due to earth's orbit), and that currently we are warmer than any time in the last 40,000 years, and that the Arctic is currently warmer than even during the peak Holocene Arctic insolation 10,000 years ago.

229 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:22:19pm

re: #221 TedStriker

A funny I got, courtesy of Gus:

[Embedded content]

Another one.

230 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:22:52pm

re: #229 Gus

Another one.

[Embedded content]

Saw that one too ;-)

231 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:23:25pm

re: #227 TedStriker

If Snoop really was smoking all that MJ, he'd have lungs that looked like the LaBrea Tar Pits...and be as big as a house.

The death of ding-dongs and twinkies must be hell on pot smokers.

232 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:24:05pm

re: #218 Dark_Falcon

Even so, that doesn't matter much. They seek the violent deportation of people different from them in order to satisfy their notions of religious or ethnic 'destiny'. Even if they don't want genocide, they still want ethnic cleansing, and that has never been done without large-scale bloodshed.

So when you updinged Eclectic Infidel's annexation comment, what exactly did you think would happen to the Palestinians living there?

Somehow I don't see either of you advocating they get full citizenship and voting rights in an integrated single state solution.

233 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:24:11pm

re: #226 researchok

Yours

Really.

Thanks. They would probably say "it's easy for me to see." Right now though they're too much like the IRA when they were in their uniform stage. Way too punked out and super machismo. Step one. Recognize the state of Israel.

234 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:24:20pm

Hmmm... the comment editor stripped off the "#t=7225s" ending of the youtube link posted. Anyway, go to time 2:00:00 or so.

235 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:24:31pm

re: #227 TedStriker

Not to mention making Cheech & Chong (in their prime) look like pikers.

/Dave's not here

236 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:28:30pm

Cancel the anti-Semitic children's programming. Stop with the dressing up kids as tiny militants with toy AK-47s and parading them down the street.

237 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:28:40pm

re: #231 b_sharp

See my #208 - you were right to correct your page, but wrong to put it in the form of an apology, which will only open you up to even more dismissal and abuse. Don't forget Morano encourages his readers to send climate scientists death threats - apologizing to someone like that accomplishes nothing; they don't operate according to a civilized moral code.

238 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:29:20pm

re: #232 goddamnedfrank

So when you updinged Eclectic Infidel's annexation comment, what exactly did you think would happen to the Palestinians living there?

Somehow I don't see either of you advocating they get full citizenship and voting rights in an integrated single state solution.

Which comment was that?

239 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:29:25pm

re: #233 Gus

FYI, from the referenced article:

...Nations with a healthy middle class have some other things in common, something that makes both Hamas and Fatah as they vie with each other for power, tremble in a common fear: a successful middle class demands that government answer to them, and not the other way around. Democracies are not developed or sustained by the political extremes- they are the trust and legacy of a vibrant, functioning middle class...

....A peace treaty with Israel would mean that the Palestinians would dictate their own future. A peace treaty with Israel would level the playing field and thus offer each and every Palestinian the opportunity to succeed, and not be subject to failure before they even began. Success is not always easy and success is never guaranteed; but even with failure, a middle class mindset sees new, open doors and possibilities...

240 Political Atheist  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:29:43pm

re: #231 b_sharp

The death of ding-dongs and twinkies must be hell on pot smokers.

Fixed!

241 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:31:24pm

re: #237 Interesting Times

See my #208 - you were right to correct your page, but wrong to put it in the form of an apology, which will only open you up to even more dismissal and abuse. Don't forget Morano encourages his readers to send climate scientists death threats - apologizing to someone like that accomplishes nothing; they don't operate according to a civilized moral code.

If I make an error, I prefer to apologize.

242 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:31:24pm

re: #227 TedStriker

If Snoop really was smoking all that bud, he'd have lungs that looked like the LaBrea Tar Pits...and be as big as a house.

That's what I meant, though I should have been clearer. The danger with smoking pot in larger amounts is that it contains tar, and it can seriously muck up your lungs, So if he really smoked that much weed, it'd likely kill Snoop Dogg in a few years.

243 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:31:55pm

re: #239 researchok

FYI, from the referenced article:

re: #239 researchok

FYI, from the referenced article:

It's self perpetuating. They're not interested even in democracy for themselves. Let alone a constitution. They merely want to retain the reins of power. It's like la cosa nostra. The Hamas-Fata-Industrial-Complex. Venezuela is more democratic.

244 freetoken  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:32:08pm

re: #236 Gus

Stop with the dressing up kids as tiny militants with toy AK-47s and parading them down the street.

Much better to use the real thing:


Image: 0.jpg

Image: Young%20student%20.308.jpg

And the winner is titled "Guns Save Life":

Image: Youth-Gun-Winners-courtesy-gunssavelife.com_.jpg

245 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:32:17pm

re: #240 Political Atheist

Fixed!

Nom.

246 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:34:23pm

re: #213 blueraven

As far as Fahreed Zakaria goes. I dont always agree with him on everything...but his is one of the only cable news shows that ever talk about anything other than the topic of the day.

He has interesting guests with opposing view points and there is not a bunch of screeching rhetoric and talking points.

He apologized unequivocally for the one occurrence of plagiarism.

I very much agree. If there were more shows like his I might watch cable news again. My issue is with his designated role as a pundit. Is he a great forward thinker with innovate ideas? Not really. I'm sure he's very smart but probably not a great thinker. He should be a presenter of an interesting and informative show for adults. Like Charlie Rose. He's smart and does a smart show but he's not pretending to be a pundit.. There are plenty of real smart people with innovative ideas, They just aren't all celebrities doing hours of tv, radio, writing daily columns and thee books a year.

247 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:35:47pm

re: #243 Gus

Venezuela is more democratic.

If that weren't so absurdly true...

248 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:36:45pm

re: #244 freetoken

Child abuse is global.

249 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:37:11pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

That's what I meant, though I should have been clearer. The danger with smoking pot in larger amounts is that it contains tar, and it can seriously muck up your lungs, So if he really smoked that much weed, it'd likely kill Snoop Dogg in a few years.

Tiger's blood.
If Sheen can snort briefcases full of Coke then 81 blunts is life before lunch.

250 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:37:33pm

re: #244 freetoken

Much better to use the real thing:

Image: 0.jpg

Image: Young%20student%20.308.jpg

And the winner is titled "Guns Save Life":

Image: Youth-Gun-Winners-courtesy-gunssavelife.com_.jpg

Who in the fuck names their kid (their daughter, no less) "Tactical" and lets them handle any kind of gun at 4 1/2 years old?

Oh, never mind...wackjob gun nuts do :-/

251 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:38:00pm

re: #244 freetoken

Much better to use the real thing:

Image: 0.jpg

Image: Young%20student%20.308.jpg

And the winner is titled "Guns Save Life":

Image: Youth-Gun-Winners-courtesy-gunssavelife.com_.jpg

Yes, but a different context and longer term results and outcomes. In the end those American children will retain the most firepower and a higher kill ratio. That might remain in theory depending on the most recent warring taking place for America.

But an American kid holding an air gun, shooting target practice, and going varmint hunting is not the same as being a Palestinian kid holding a rifle and thinking about his part in what might require him to kill another man.

252 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:39:01pm

re: #250 TedStriker

If his dad worked for Monsanto, he'd probably have named his kid 'Fertilizer'.
//

253 blueraven  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:40:50pm

re: #246 Killgore Trout

I very much agree. If there were more shows like his I might watch cable news again. My issue is with his designated role as a pundit. Is he a great forward thinker with innovate ideas? Not really. I'm sure he's very smart but probably not a great thinker. He should be a presenter of an interesting and informative show for adults. Like Charlie Rose. He's smart and does a smart show but he's not pretending to be a pundit.. There are plenty of real smart people with innovative ideas, They just aren't all celebrities doing hours of tv, radio, writing daily columns and thee books a year.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I dont think he is a pundit. And I think he does do a smart show within the confines of cable TV.
And what the hell is wrong with writing books and articles?

254 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:41:55pm

re: #239 researchok

FYI, from the referenced article:

The problem is twofold:

1. Palestinian "armed wings". The coming of peace would mean that Palestinian parties "armed wings" would have to be disbanded, and most of those demobbed would have to find non-security work (since the force levels of Palestinian security agencies will be less than the number of men being stood down). This does not appeal to many of the armed wing gunmen, who do not relish the idea of, to borrow from Goodfellas, getting "to live the rest [their] lives as ... schnook[s]." Some enjoy playing the bully boy with their arms, such things as designating someone they don't like as a collaborator and killing them. Some others suffer from the kind of combat burnout that occurs in any armed conflict, having because so used to war that they don't know peace.

2. The Palestinian leadership. A armed conflict is a handy thing for leaders to use to distract their population from domestic troubles (see Orwell's 1984 for an excellent description of this). Remove the conflict and people are going to start demanding more honest and competent government, which would leave most of the current Hamas and Fatah leadership up shit creek and stuck.

255 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:43:06pm

re: #238 Dark_Falcon

Which comment was that?

This one.

256 Mattand  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:44:48pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

That's what I meant, though I should have been clearer. The danger with smoking pot in larger amounts is that it contains tar, and it can seriously muck up your lungs, So if he really smoked that much weed, it'd likely kill Snoop Dogg in a few years.

Not a pot smoker myself, but I've always wondered about that. Advocates like Bill Maher claim that pot is light years healthier than tobacco, but I've always questioned how healthy it is to put any smoke into your lungs regularly.

Is there any merit to that, or am I slowly creeping into Reefer Madness territory?

257 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:44:56pm

re: #216 researchok

No argument with any of that.

There are so many competing interests and so many agenda, we get overwhelmed and overloaded with agendized noise- all designed to obscure reality.

As I have noted many times, what drives me up the wall is how an entire population are used as pawns and fodder for some very bad people.

258 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:45:37pm

re: #244 freetoken

Much better to use the real thing:

Image: 0.jpg

Image: Young%20student%20.308.jpg

And the winner is titled "Guns Save Life":

Image: Youth-Gun-Winners-courtesy-gunssavelife.com_.jpg

Not the same thing. American kids going to weekend camp to learn how to shoot aren't being taught there that they must be ready to martyr themselves to kill Canadians. Such camps emphasize strongly that arms must be used responsibly. America's arms are intended to protect our freedom, not to take the freedom of others away. Hamas' arms are intended to be used to commit genocide.

259 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:46:38pm

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

And therein lies a big party of the problem.

There are a lot of people with vested interests in maintaining the status quo.

And there are lot of people 'on the dole' as they say.

And no one wants to get dragged out into the street and summarily executed by some of the more radical thugs.

260 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:47:33pm

re: #258 Dark_Falcon

Not the same thing. American kids going to weekend camp to learn how to shoot aren't being taught there that they must be ready to martyr themselves to kill Canadians. Such camps emphasize strongly that arms must be used responsibly. America's arms are intended to protect our freedom, not to take the freedom of others away. Hamas' arms are intended to be used to commit genocide.

Toy soldier, child soldier.

261 dragonath  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:49:22pm

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

What kind of message does it send that Israel has disengaged from the more violent of the two Palestinian "states"? It's like everything in this conflict is designed to undercut moderates wherever they might be.

262 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:49:35pm

re: #258 Dark_Falcon

Hamas' arms are intended to be used to commit genocide.

As outrageous as that statement is, it is true.

And the secondary use is keeping their population in line.

263 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:50:04pm

re: #255 goddamnedfrank

This one.

Honestly, I updinged that due to the first sentence, not the second one. I don't agree with just annexing the West Bank.

264 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:52:59pm

re: #261 dragonath

What kind of message does it send that Israel has disengaged from the more violent of the two Palestinian "states"? It's like everything in this conflict is designed to undercut moderates wherever they might be.

It was based on point that while Israel thinks it might be able to reach a deal someday to keep some parts of the West Bank in land swaps, Sharon knew that ultimately the Gaza settlements would have to go. There was no scenario where a peace treaty would let Israel keep them there. Also, don't forget that the Gaza pullout happened before Hamas took over Gaza.

265 Mattand  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:55:11pm

re: #258 Dark_Falcon

Not the same thing. American kids going to weekend camp to learn how to shoot aren't being taught there that they must be ready to martyr themselves to kill Canadians. Such camps emphasize strongly that arms must be used responsibly. America's arms are intended to protect our freedom, not to take the freedom of others away. Hamas' arms are intended to be used to commit genocide.

That's the problem I have with guns and America's fascination/obsession with them. Protect our freedom? From whom? The government? Al-Queda? That guy down the street who lets his dog shit on my yard?

The 2nd Amendment needs to be seriously reviewed. We do not need guns in today's society to survive. I'm not against gun ownership, hunting, sport shooting, etc., but this notion that it's a vital cornerstone of American life is antiquated and out of touch with modern reality.

266 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:57:17pm

re: #262 researchok

As outrageous as that statement is, it is true.

And the secondary use is keeping their population in line.

It is indeed outrageous, and so I did not write it lightly. But sometimes outrageous and horrible things really are true, and when that is the case its better to face the truth head on.

267 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:59:22pm

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

Honestly, I updinged that due to the first sentence, not the second one. I don't agree with just annexing the West Bank.

Why should any discussion of the settlements necessarily be juxtaposed against Hamas and terrorism? The first sentence is only there to justify the second, to create the idea that Palestinian bad acts contextualize the settlement land grabs. Both are wrong in and of themselves, neither justifies or whitewashes the other.

268 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:00:15pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

There is another unspoken tragedy here.

It is the Palestinian leadership which have stripped the moral cause for their right to self determination by embracing that genocidal intent.

There is no moral equality- and the moment there is, there will be a peace treaty.

269 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:00:54pm

re: #265 Mattand

RWC actually has a good thread up on that topic. if you want to discuss that issue, lets do it over there (since its at best tangential to the argument I was making).

270 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:00:55pm

re: #262 researchok

As outrageous as that statement is, it is true.

And the secondary use is keeping their population in line.

It's like serious political ads. Running daily. I guess you can say it's always campaign season in Gaza and the PA.

Everyone is talking about a two state solution. Everyone wants a two state solution. Yet, one of those states refuses to recognize that other state.

How does that work?

271 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:02:20pm

re: #267 goddamnedfrank

That is true, though it needs to be noted that historically, Israel has always given up land for peace.

As for the settlements, I suspect some will be abandoned and land swaps will deal with the rest.

That has already been publicly discussed.

272 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:04:15pm

re: #270 Gus

It doesn't.

While the PA has recognized Israel, Hamas will not.

They are playing a Times Square Three Card Monty game.

The two state solution is never there.

273 dragonath  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:05:09pm

re: #264 Dark_Falcon

Also, don't forget that the Gaza pullout happened before Hamas took over Gaza.

Yeah, wasn't that wonderful timing.

The problem I have with pages like Eclectic Infidel's is that he's conflating the Hamas position with the entire Palestinian population, even though there is a distinct difference between the two regions.

His words:

The Palestinians voted Hamas into power and it is this reality that must be addressed by them if they are to ever be accepted as a legitimate, independent nation.

274 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:07:50pm

Night Lizards. May the Deity of your choice smile down upon you.

275 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:09:51pm

re: #272 researchok

It doesn't.

While the PA has recognized Israel, Hamas will not.

They are playing a Times Square Three Card Monty game.

The two state solution never there.

Then, they are lying. They don't want a two state solution. The first step is simple. We want a two state solution. If one of those states doesn't recognize the other? Than they are for a one state solution. If they pretend to the former? They're lying.

276 Mattand  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:11:48pm

re: #269 Dark_Falcon

RWC actually has a good thread up on that topic. if you want to discuss that issue, lets do it over there (since its at best tangential to the argument I was making).

Appreciate the link. There's some interesting arguments over there. Definitely bookmarking that one.

277 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:14:29pm

re: #275 Gus

Welcome to the grown ups table.

Now you know why your dad always got indigestion.
/

Something has to give- and if it won't, somebody needs to pushed, Hard.

278 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:15:40pm

re: #275 Gus

So many lives have been lost, so many futures extinguished- and for what?

279 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:16:41pm

re: #277 researchok

Welcome to the grown ups table.

Now you know why your dad always got indigestion.
/

Something has to give- and if it won't, somebody needs to pushed, Hard.

Problem with that is

If it's the Israeli's doing the pushing, the entire region could ignite (not to mention almost universal condemnation)
If it's Hamas doing the pushing, a lot of innocents on both sides suffer

280 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:19:20pm

re: #278 researchok

So many lives have been lost, so many futures extinguished- and for what?

We could have had two states already. It's like a mini Iran that refuses to negotiate. Cuba. A freer North Korea. No! We want this! But! We refuse to negotiate. Yes means no and no means yes.

281 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:21:23pm

re: #279 sattv4u2

The status quo cannot go on.

In this latest conflict, the Israelis got the unequivocal support of the western nations (which outraged the Palestinians) and the Palestinians got upgraded status at the UN (which outraged Israel).

Pressure is on for some serious efforts

282 dragonath  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:24:03pm

Fatah is corrupt as fuck, Hamas is run by religious maniacs, and Israel has about half a million people living in the West Bank.

Yeah, they'll come up with something eventually...

283 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:24:56pm

re: #281 researchok

Pressure is on for some serious efforts

We've had "serious efforts"

Clinton, Bush, now Obama

Rabin, Peres.,, all for not

284 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:25:50pm

re: #280 Gus

The Palestinians are pawns.

They are paying the price for dysfunctional and broken Arab world leaders. As long as focus is directed outward, they are safe from real insurrection.

The Arab Spring as had little effect, sad to say and the Arab world leaders are ferociously trying to turn the focus outward again.

The PA and Hamas leadership has benefited greatly (cash) from leaders looking to keep the conflict fresh.

Arafat stole billions, remember?

285 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:27:37pm

re: #283 sattv4u2

Hope springs eternal.

But with upgraded missiles and the realization that if Tel Aviv or Jerusalem is targeted, the game will change dramatically.

And the Lebanese do not want Beirut flattened if Hizbollah wants in.

286 Political Atheist  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:27:59pm

Saturday night, time for a cocktail and some music. This might hit the right tone.

287 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:29:28pm

re: #286 Political Atheist

Just when I was trying to wind down....

288 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:30:04pm

re: #284 researchok

The Palestinians are pawns.

They are paying the price for dysfunctional and broken Arab world leaders. As long as focus is directed outward, they are safe from real insurrection.

The Arab Spring as had little effect, sad to say and the Arab world leaders are ferociously trying to turn the focus outward again.

The PA and Hamas leadership has benefited greatly (cash) from leaders looking to keep the conflict fresh.

Arafat stole billions, remember?

They have to look inward. They have to realize that moderation is the best opportunity here. They can no longer afford to be led by para militants and army men. And it's silly for many of them to want war. It's like sending a battalion into a rock fight. Snark aside but they have to change from within.

289 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:30:23pm

re: #280 Gus

Check you email

290 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:31:19pm

re: #286 Political Atheist

Saturday night, time for a cocktail and some music. This might hit the right tone.

[Embedded content]

Cocktail will have to wait till I get home

Won't be able to head home till after the Pacquiao / Marquez fight is over

291 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:31:31pm

re: #289 researchok

Check you email

I did. Will read later. :D Tanks. No wait, there were tanks. Kind of in cocktail mode now.

292 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:31:38pm

re: #288 Gus

How do you do that when you've been indoctrinated not just to hate, but participate in or demand action which realizes that hate?

293 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:32:05pm

Uh oh.

The Password™ is.

Cocktail

294 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:32:36pm

re: #292 researchok

How do you do that when you've been indoctrinated not just to hate, but participate in or demand action which realizes that hate?

That's why I brought up the children earlier.

295 Political Atheist  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:33:12pm

re: #287 researchok

Maybe some sultry blues?

296 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:34:27pm

re: #294 Gus

Repeat:

To paraphrase the now silent Saudi blogger, the Religious Policeman, imagine a school that gave each student a glass of alcohol every day. Each day, beginning at tender nursery school age, the child was encouraged to drink the beverage that would come to poison his spirit, soul and mind.

Suppose that beverage was from the well aged bottle of anti Semitism.

Suppose also that once that child downed that alcoholic beverage, the teacher refilled that glass with more alcohol. This time, the flavor is religious bigotry directed at non Jews.

Imagine once that glass of alcohol was consumed by young dutiful children, the glass was immediately refilled with the beverage from the bottle of anti western and anti democratic values.

After decades those children, now adults, go home every day, turn on the television and read the newspapers and they are fed more alcohol. They get yet more when their kids come home from school, and share the same familiar poisoned ‘fire water...

After years of such ‘education,’ it would be reasonable to expect that there would be a lot of alcoholics in the Arab world deliberately poisoned by the hate and ideologies of dysfunctional and corrupt leaders...

297 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:34:55pm

They need to stop watching Press TV. Watching Russia Today or Al Jazeera "We're owned by the Qatari government" Arabic. Press TV is the worst though. AJA is not that bad in certain aspects. AJE is pretty good.

298 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:35:49pm

re: #296 researchok

Repeat:

Morsi is pretty interesting though. He's like a hybrid.

299 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:36:56pm

re: #298 Gus

I actually had higher hopes.

Morsi pretty much showed his colors.

300 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:37:30pm

re: #253 blueraven

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I dont think he is a pundit.

Agreed.
Crazy Prophets - Monty Python Style

301 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:37:34pm

re: #290 sattv4u2

Cocktail will have to wait till I get home

Won't be able to head home till after the Pacquiao / Marquez fight is over

You are not going home any time soon if the first three fights were any indication!

302 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:37:35pm

re: #295 Political Atheist

Listening- way better.

303 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:39:09pm

re: #301 bratwurst

You are not going home any time soon if the first three fights were any indication!

Yup

The one on right now, I don't know how either is standing!!

304 dragonath  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:40:46pm

I like how Marquez's manager has the nickname "Nacho"

305 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:40:48pm

re: #298 Gus

Notwithstanding the obligatory performance, he came through in ending the Gaza confrontation.

And then he went went for the entire Egyptian pie.

Like Mubarak.

306 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:40:58pm

re: #299 researchok

I actually had higher hopes.

Morsi pretty much showed his colors.

I never did. Had worse hopes actually. That helps.

307 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:41:48pm

re: #306 Gus

LOLOL

Good morning, sunshine!
/

308 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:41:57pm

re: #231 b_sharp

The death of ding-dongs and twinkies must be hell on pot smokers.

We're getting by my friend. But barely.

309 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:42:37pm

re: #308 Amory Blaine

Carrot sticks?
//

310 dragonath  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:43:27pm

re: #309 researchok

Stay hungry, my friends.

311 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:43:32pm

re: #307 researchok

LOLOL

Good morning, sunshine!
/

If I were young I'd want to learn Arabic and Hebrew. The MB did not block me.

312 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:45:28pm

The party for 15 teenagers at my house went well today. Apparently, playing with foam swords outside can pass a lot of time.

313 sauceruney  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:46:41pm

you know, she's going to an awful lot of trouble to keep people from noticing her boobs

314 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:46:44pm

re: #312 prairiefire

The party for 15 teenagers at my house went well today. Apparently, playing with foam swords outside can pass a lot of time.

You and the spouse did that while the teens were inside social networking???
/

315 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:47:42pm

re: #311 Gus

If I were young I'd order a pizza right now.

I have finally learned the meaning of the word 'Heartburn'.

316 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:47:43pm

The Middle East is for Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Coptic Christians, atheists, Seculars, liberals, Shia, Sunni, Salafists, Orthodox, Hasidic, people, in general. In peace.

317 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:48:36pm

re: #316 Gus

From your mouth....

318 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:49:21pm

re: #315 researchok

If I were young I'd order a pizza right now.

I have finally learned the meaning of the word 'Heartburn'.

Cold here and snowing. My neck hurts as I look at a bottle of Canadian Mist. Not sure if we'll make landfall by daybreak.

319 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:50:38pm

K Kiddies

The world is starting to check in for their audio assignments for the fight

I pray it ends in by the 4th round! I have to be back here by noon tomorrow for NFL

320 dragonath  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:50:54pm

Oh joy! There's an Italian election coming up.

321 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:51:09pm

re: #317 researchok

From your mouth....

To God's ear. As-salamu alaykum. Shalom. Hitchens video.

322 CuriousLurker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:53:19pm

Ewww, someone grab a box of salt... //

323 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:53:24pm

re: #318 Gus

(I'd (like) to share your pain.

Going to be about 70 here tomorrow.

I'm taking the day off tomorrow just so I can convince myself my posts will be missed.

And in the spirit of the season that ought to make a couple of people here happy.

324 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:54:24pm

Good Night, all.

325 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:54:43pm

re: #322 CuriousLurker

I knew you were lurking...

It can be tough to type when you're working on origami.

326 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:54:47pm

re: #319 sattv4u2

K Kiddies

The world is starting to check in for their audio assignments for the fight

I pray it ends in by the 4th round! I have to be back here by noon tomorrow for NFL

(if it goes the full 12 I see there's a couch in the conference room in my immediate future!!)

327 CuriousLurker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:55:57pm

LOL. That thing that keeps slithering in & out killed my appetite.

328 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:58:13pm

There is something very wrong with Scotch Pop Up tape dispensers.

It takes the challenge out of wrapping gifts, struggling with the tape as you hold the perfect fold in place and use your teeth to cut the tape. And teh satisfaction that came with almost getting it perfect.

Is there nothing sacred about the holidays nowadays?

329 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:58:23pm

Sorry. Floating around my PT boat in Twitter. //

330 jaunte  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:59:51pm
331 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:00:10pm

re: #329 Gus

I heard you won a Purple Heart.

A number of times.

332 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:00:54pm

re: #331 researchok

I heard you won a Purple Heart.

A number of times.

People get me all wrong man.

//

333 Gus  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:01:29pm

re: #330 jaunte

[Link: neworleans.craigslist.org...]

That's awesome however I question the price.

334 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:01:29pm

re: #332 Gus

LOLOL

335 Political Atheist  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:02:13pm

re: #326 sattv4u2

For once we share a late shift. Got an edit session coming up. Ten till two am. If all goes well.

336 jaunte  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:03:30pm

re: #328 researchok

Is there nothing sacred about the holidays nowadays?

New duct tape, makes your wrapping virtually indestructible:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

337 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:04:02pm

Looking for an unusual holiday gift?

Check these out, huge price reductions.

338 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:05:23pm

re: #336 jaunte

Single Black Rose - Duct Tape Flower

Only in America.

339 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:07:03pm

I'm outta here...see you all on Monday.

340 CuriousLurker  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:12:14pm

re: #336 jaunte

New duct tape, makes your wrapping virtually indestructible:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Ha! I almost ordered some of the graffiti & polka dot ones the other day just for the hell of it, but I figured since I'd already bought some of this on impulse last month, I'd better not.

After seeing the Duck brand tape I went on YouTube and saw that ppl are making all kinds of stuff out of duct tape now--it's insane. Oh, and did you know you can make murals out of the graffiti ones? How cool is that?

341 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:45:39am

Fundamentalist religion is totalitarian, and Islam is the worst and most widespread offender in that regard. Somehow, Pamela Geller seems to be even worse, though.

She also seems to increasingly resemble an amphibian with the passage of time.

342 biorabbi  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 2:02:20pm

I got into an argument with Geller concerning the issue of having a Muslim President. This goes back to the early news coverage about President Obama's background. I basically stated I would have no problem with voting for a Muslim who represented my opinions on foreign/domestic policy. She stated something to the effect she would not vote for a Muslim under any circumstances. She is too much of a simplistic idiot to realize this same argument was employed by the Nazis. I'm disgusted I used to read her crap. She makes common cause with anti-semites who also hate Muslims. Nice lady.

343 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 2:11:23pm

re: #342 biorabbi

Also not a very bright lady. She should realize what her "Nazi friends" would do to her once the "Muslim menace" is removed.

344 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 10, 2012 5:58:41am
345 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 10, 2012 11:44:52am

Spammer.


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