The Benghazi Fake Scandal Returns at #Breitbart.com

The only kind of recycling wingnuts believe in
Wingnuts • Views: 27,925

Today at the reliably unhinged breitbart.com, we discover an article screaming, “NO SHOTS FIRED: STATE DEPT BENGHAZI SECURITY FORCE UNARMED!”

Can anyone spot the huge honking problem in their lead paragraph?

A source with personal knowledge of the security situation in Benghazi told Breitbart News…

Why, sure — I’ll believe an anonymous source cited by “Breitbart News!”

Who’s more credible than the people who promoted the idiotic fake controversy over Harvard Prof. Derrick Bell, or the people who think The Onion is antisemitic, or the people who posted pictures of Libyan rescuers trying to save Ambassador Stevens and labeled them as “terrorists dragging his body through the streets,” or the dishonest right wing shills who falsely claimed Obama was trying to restrict military voting?

I could go on for a long, long time in this vein. The bottom line, in case my snark wasn’t obvious enough, is that anyone who believes an anonymous source from “Breitbart News” is living in Wingnut Fantasy World.

And of course, the Breitbart commenters are as adorable as always:

IMPEACH obama

[…]

IMPEACH AND PROSECUTE FOR THE BENGAZI MURDERS….

[…]

Impeach, Imprison, and Execute for High Treason. Obama went into war in Libya without Congressional approval.

Also see
Ghost Andrew Breitbart Welcomes Moonie ‘Investigative Reporter’ for All Future Racism Debunkings Breitbart.com Hires Double Down on the Bubble

Jump to bottom

346 comments
1 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:04:13am

Breitghazi!

2 Bulworth  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:05:42am

Can't even make sense of that headline. So there weren't any shots fired?

3 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:06:02am

I'll tell you who takes an anonymous source leaking to Breitbart seriously. Anyone in the liberal media that's who.

4 bratwurst  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:06:08am

I have come to think that this is ultimately nothing more than part of the nearly 40 year effort by the political right to identify a "scandal" that they can convince America is "worse than Watergate".

5 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:07:10am

What's a "side pistol?"

6 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:07:15am

Related:

Moonie times, investigative reporter, Kerry Picket reports.

...And just what is it that makes Picket such an investigative ace? Breitbart remnant Tony Lee tells us that she conclusively proved that black legislators are a bunch of race-baiting liars, for one thing!

During the Obamacare protests in 2010, Picket debunked allegations made by prominent members of the Congressional Black Caucus … that Tea Party protestors shouted the N-word at Rep. [John] Lewis. Picket interviewed people who were at the Capitol Hill protests and went to police stations across Washington, D.C. to ask if police officers had heard of such an incident. She discovered there had been no complaints about protestors yelling the N-word, contrary to what mainstream media outlets were reporting at the time.

h/t

Same old conservative media garbage. Some

7 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:08:17am

How bad is it when the bottom of the barrel have to scrape the bottom of their barrel. A kind of recursive scraping.

8 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:10:21am
9 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:11:00am

re: #5 Shiplord Kirel

What's a "side pistol?"

That's when you turn it sideways, for the kill shot!//

10 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:12:15am

re: #8 Gus

[Embedded content]

Did you have to?

11 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:13:10am

This source seems to have some issues with consistency. Key grafs, including the one on which the Breitbart headline is based:

When the attack came that night, they had to go back to the other room and grab their weapons. Then the worse part about it was they never even returned to be with the Ambassador. One returned to be with the Ambassador with his rifle. The other two went back to where there were [sic] barracks. And two stayed in that same building where there were radios and other weapons and the safe and other stuff was there.

There were no shots fired in return. On the embassy property, just the embassy property, none of those security agents blasted a single bullet from a single pistol or rifle at all in defense of the Ambassador—nothing.”

I've highlighted the discrepancy:

When the attack came that night, they had to go back to the other room and grab their weapons. Then the worse part about it was they never even returned to be with the Ambassador. One returned to be with the Ambassador with his rifle.

First the source claims that none of the agents returned to be with the ambassador. Yet, in the next sentence there's a contradiction in which the same source says one agent returned to be with the Ambassador with his rifle.

Which is it. None? One?

Then, there's the question of who/what returned fire. This source says none returned fire, and yet one doesn't get into a multi-hour firefight unless there was return fire from someone within the Embassy staff or the CIA attached to the Embassy.

The source also admits that testimony given to Sen. Feinstein in the hearing stated that there were never orders given to the security contingent to never shoot:

She wanted to know did they issue orders for [the security agents] not to shoot. Now they denied that to her in that meeting and they said, ‘No, we never did that. We never did that. We never issued orders that they should do that.’ ”

12 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:14:14am

The commenters are as adorable as always:

IMPEACH obama

[...]

IMPEACH AND PROSECUTE FOR THE BENGAZI MURDERS....

[...]

Impeach, Imprison, and Execute for High Treason. Obama went into war in Libya without Congressional approval.

13 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:16:05am

Related:

Breitbart.com Hires Double Down On The Bubble

Breitbart.com is in the midst of a hiring spree that promises to generate more pageviews and money for the publication while keeping its readers chasing Obama administration conspiracies for the next four years.

The publication is reportedly offering reporters from other right-wing outlets big salary increases and annual bonuses to sign four year contracts. It's no wonder that the website has money to spend; in at least one month this fall Breitbart.com passed its rivals to take the lead as the highest trafficked right-wing news site. Traffic drives ad sales, which, together with venture capital, has filled the publication's coffers.

What's significant is what Breitbart.com has done to build the traffic, and who they're planning on hiring with the resulting profits.

Continues.

14 erik_t  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:17:44am

No doubt John McCain would be directly sharing these alarming reports with the American people if he'd actually attended the briefing.

/not sure if /

15 BongCrodny  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:18:37am

...all the WHOs* down in WHOville...


* We Hate Obama

16 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:19:03am

re: #8 Gus

There are some things you can't unsee.

GAH. I'm going to gouge out my eyeballs with a rusty can opener.

17 erik_t  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:19:50am

re: #16 Vicious Babushka

There are some things you can't unsee.

GAH. I'm going to gouge out my eyeballs with a rusty can opener.

With how these people think, it's kind of amazing they retain the ability to form a smile.

18 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:20:53am

re: #13 Gus

Related:

Breitbart.com Hires Double Down On The Bubble

There's a lot of money to be had by slinging dishonest conspiracy theories to the hogs of the right wing.

19 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:21:55am

re: #13 Gus

Related:

Breitbart.com Hires Double Down On The Bubble

More:

One week after announcing Boyle's hire, Breitbart.com revealed that they had hired Kerry Picket, author of The Washington Times' The Water Cooler blog. The paper's former editorial page editor called it a "smart move for Breitbart News and a huge blow to the Washington Times," telling a reporter that Picket's blog "generates millions of pageviews a year."

It's no wonder. The Breitbart.com announcement highlighted Picket's reporting on topics such as "President Barack Obama's illegal immigrant uncle" and that "director Spike Lee tweeted out the wrong address for George Zimmerman at the height of the Trayvon Martin ordeal." These stories have little impact in mainstream circles but are catnip for the insular right-wing media readership.

Picket shares with Boyle a tendency toward conspiracy and away from facts. She participated in the Times' anti-gay war on then-Obama administration official Kevin Jennings, grossly distorting one set of his comments to claim he had supported "the promotion of homosexuality in the public school curriculum" and posted doctored transcript of another to falsely claim he wanted teachers to be required to "take an LGBT course." She drove a right-wing media firestorm by promoting the baseless claim from a "source who is friends with" the presidential campaign of Herman Cain that Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel was "likely involved with the sexual harassment" allegations against the candidate. She used her blog to speculate that the new logo for the Missile Defense Agency "takes a cue from Obama campaign '08."

20 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:22:25am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

The commenters are as adorable as always:

Fast & Furious let them down on the treasonous impeachablity front. Benghazi is a fresh hope.

21 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:22:55am

And to think, had we elected Hillary, we could have enjoyed 4 years of obsession about Vince Foster instead.

/

22 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:23:17am

re: #18 wrenchwench

There's a lot of money to be had by slinging dishonest conspiracy theories to the hogs of the right wing.

Double down on stupidity and conspiracy theories; make more money. Right wing business model and political strategy.

23 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:25:03am

re: #22 Gus

Double down on stupidity and conspiracy theories; make more money. Right wing business model and political strategy.

Health of the nation's political system be damned.

24 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:25:15am

George Bush's lies to invade Iraq has poisoned this country.

25 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:26:31am

re: #23 wrenchwench

Health of the nation's political system be damned.

Yeah. It looks like the wingnuts took the reelection of Obama well and are well underway towards moderating their views. That's pretty standard.

//

26 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:28:02am

Not entirely OT

New in pages, perhaps the clearest calls yet from freepers for civil war and violence.
Wingnut Outrage: MSNBC Airs Interview Calling for the Political Imprisonment of Conservatives and Tea Party
The cause? Some dumb comments by noted Democrat strategist and administration insider Harry Belafonte. /needless I hope.

Not so long ago, Free Republic mods would have instantly deleted inflammatory rhetoric like this. Today, it stays up.

27 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:30:01am

re: #21 Targetpractice

And to think, had we elected Hillary, we could have enjoyed 4 years of obsession about Vince Foster instead.

/

I'm guessing we'll hear plenty about Vince again in 2016.

28 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:30:57am

An allegation that serious is not in my mind credible unless its source is willing to go on the record or it can be independently verified.

This 'story' is filed under "tabloid grade crap".

29 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:31:33am

re: #27 Shiplord Kirel

I can hardly wait.

30 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:32:58am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

An allegation that serious is not in my mind credible unless its source is willing to go on the record or it can be independently verified.

This 'story' is filed under "tabloid grade crap".

That's all Whitewater was too, but the GOP got ballsy enough to spine it into impeachment. That's why they're salivating at the idea of creating a "special committee" to dig into this.

31 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:33:18am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

The headline doesn't even match the story. Says they were unarmed, then describes them getting armed.

32 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:33:51am

re: #22 Gus

Double down on stupidity and conspiracy theories; make more money. Right wing business model and political strategy.

Speaking of which, there's a new novel out at the local Barnes & Noble. The first paragraph from its dustcover blurb reads as follows:

Just a generation ago, this place was called America. Now, after the worldwide implementation of a UN-led program called Agenda 21, it's simply known as "the Republic." There is no President. No Congress. No Supreme Court. No freedom.

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the author?

33 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:34:45am

re: #32 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Speaking of which, there's a new novel out at the local Barnes & Noble. The first paragraph from its dustcover blurb reads as follows:

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the author?

Glenn. Beck.

34 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:35:15am

re: #33 Gus

Glenn. Beck.

What gave it away?

35 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:35:28am

re: #33 Gus

Glenn. Beck.

Is it called 'Insanity Unleashed'?

36 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:35:58am

re: #34 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

What gave it away?

Agenda 21 and the simplicity. :D

37 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:36:17am

re: #35 b_sharp

Is it called 'Insanity Unleashed'?

I think that was the working title.

38 jaunte  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:36:33am

re: #22 Gus

Double down on stupidity and conspiracy theories; make more money. Right wing business model and political strategy.

Charles P. Pierce, recently:

You might as well troll meth labs to learn table manners. Ask dogs for recreational tips and they'll tell you to lick your balls. Ask monkeys about hobbies, and they'll teach you to fling poo. Ask the plutocrats, and the politicians who serve them, and the aides who serve them about what we should do about the economy, and the answer is always going to be "make sure we stay rich."

Worst Politico Piece On Corporate Tax Rates - Things In Politico That Make Me Want To Guzzle Antifreeze - Esquire [Link: www.esquire.com...]

39 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:40:17am

re: #38 jaunte

Charles P. Pierce, recently:

They're doing God's work.

//

40 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:40:43am

re: #30 Targetpractice

That's all Whitewater was too, but the GOP got ballsy enough to spine it into impeachment. That's why they're salivating at the idea of creating a "special committee" to dig into this.

No, the allegations that Hillary Clinton broke the law were crap. Don't forget that Whitewater ultimately resulted in several people going to prison, including Bill Clinton successor as governor of Arkansas. This last had a drawback, though, since it made Mike Huckabee the governor of the state. But Whitewater in and of itself was something worth investigating.

41 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:46:48am

The GOP isn't interested in truth.

42 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:47:50am

re: #26 Shiplord Kirel

New in pages, perhaps the clearest calls yet from freepers for civil war and violence.
Wingnut Outrage: MSNBC Airs Interview Calling for the Political Imprisonment of Conservatives and Tea Party
The cause? Some dumb comments by noted Democrat strategist and administration insider Harry Belafonte. /needless I hope.

The interview cuts off but I suppose Rev Al didn't object much. It's unhelpful that Al and other MSNBC characters met in private with the President last week. If Fox had done the same thing a different set of hypocritical idiots would be outraged. Meh, just further evidence that cable news is a cartoon show.

43 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:47:50am

re: #40 Dark_Falcon

No, the allegations that Hillary Clinton broke the law were crap. Don't forget that Whitewater ultimately resulted in several people going to prison, including Bill Clinton successor as governor of Arkansas. This last had a drawback, though, since it made Mike Huckabee the governor of the state. But Whitewater in and of itself was something worth investigating.

Yes, at the state level, where it would have remained had Hale not changed his story 4 years later. And had it remained an Arkansas matter, Ken Starr would never have been appointed to go digging into the personal life of one William Jefferson Clinton.

44 JAFO  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:50:09am

re: #42 Killgore Trout

The interview cuts off but I suppose Rev Al didn't object much. It's unhelpful that Al and other MSNBC characters met in private with the President last week. If Fox had done the same thing a different set of hypocritical idiots would be outraged. Meh, just further evidence that cable news is a cartoon show.

Image: a_560x375.jpg

45 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:50:46am

re: #38 jaunte

Nice screed!

46 Lidane  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:50:47am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

This 'story' is filed under "tabloid grade crap".

It's Breitbart. ALL their stories are filed under "tabloid grade crap".

Actually, they're worse than tabloid crap, because even gossip sites like TMZ and Perez Hilton get things right once in a while.

47 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:51:02am

re: #43 Targetpractice

Yes, at the state level, where it would have remained had Hale not changed his story 4 years later. And had it remained an Arkansas matter, Ken Starr would never have been appointed to go digging into the personal life of one William Jefferson Clinton.

True, very true. Though it does bear repeating that had Bill Clinton not lied in deposition in the Paula Jones case, then Ken Starr would have never been handed the whole Lewinsky mess (DoJ assigned it to him, he didn't request it), and a great deal of brouhaha never would have ensued.

48 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:52:17am

re: #44 JAFO

Image: a_560x375.jpg

Exactly.

49 bratwurst  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:52:19am
50 JAFO  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:53:01am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Exactly.

I don't recall the outrage.

51 Lidane  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:54:06am

re: #49 bratwurst

Rush, Public Enemy, Randy Newman, Heart, Albert King, and Donna Summer:

[Link: www.rollingstone.com...]

52 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:54:52am

re: #49 bratwurst

Tough year for Randian nuts, but at least they can celebrate RockHall’s decision to induct Rush.

I recall reading that they have abandoned Ayn Rand's philosophy of late...some of us grow up, other are stuck in permanent adolescence.

53 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:57:07am

OT: A Charlie Sheen story wherein Charlie Sheen does not act like a jerk:

Charlie Sheen gave $75,000 to help a little girl fight cancer.

The 'Anger Management' actor had been speaking to a policeman in Hermosa Beach in California, when he discovered the officer's 10-year-old daughter, Jasmine, had been diagnosed with Childhood Rhabdomyosarcoma (CR).

Father-of-five Charlie is said to have told the officer, 'No parent should have to watch their kid go through that'.

And the next day, the actor sent a cheque for $75,000 to the Hermosa Beach Police Association, which had started a fund in Jasmine's honour.

According to TMZ.com, Charlie's stunt-double Eddie Braun also gave $25,000, and the the family is extremely grateful for the donation and hopes their actions will inspire others to join the fight against CR.

CR is a debilitating form of cancer that occurs in the muscle tissue and requires over a year of expensive medical treatments like chemotherapy and radiation therapy.

54 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:57:42am

re: #50 JAFO

I don't recall the outrage.

Outrage wasn't allowed and was summarily silenced. Anyone that questioned Bush's acts was immediately accused of being treasonous traitors in line with Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

55 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:58:19am

re: #42 Killgore Trout

The interview cuts off but I suppose Rev Al didn't object much. It's unhelpful that Al and other MSNBC characters met in private with the President last week. If Fox had done the same thing a different set of hypocritical idiots would be outraged. Meh, just further evidence that cable news is a cartoon show.

Yeah, MSNBC should fire Harry Belafonte immediately.

56 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 11:59:14am

re: #54 Gus

Outrage wasn't allowed and was summarily silenced. Anyone that questioned Bush's acts was immediately accused of being treasonous traitors in line with Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

And was accused of disrespecting the Office of the Presidency, the Nation, and by extension, God Almighty...

57 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:00:15pm

re: #56 Sol Berdinowitz

And was accused of disrespecting the Office of the Presidency, the Nation, and by extension, God Almighty...

You are either with us, or you're with the terrorists!

58 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:01:33pm

re: #55 Gus

Yeah, MSNBC should fire Harry Belafonte immediately.

It's hard to hate the man who gave the world this:

Youtube Video
59 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:04:53pm

Dammit, I don't want to change my nic back to Benghazi-xxx. Bastards.

60 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:05:52pm

re: #59 Kronocide

Dammit, I don't want to change my nic back to Benghazi-xxx. Bastards.

I'm in for the long haul - not by choice.

61 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:06:15pm

re: #59 Kronocide

Dammit, I don't want to change my nic back to Benghazi-xxx. Bastards.

Then don't. Just roll your eyes and march on.

62 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:07:23pm

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Then don't. Just roll your eyes and march on.

Removing and replacing my eyes just to roll gets painful.

63 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:07:44pm

re: #59 Kronocide

Dammit, I don't want to change my nic back to Benghazi-xxx. Bastards.

Why not? It's easy and fun.

64 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:11:53pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

The interview cuts off but I suppose Rev Al didn't object much. It's unhelpful that Al and other MSNBC characters met in private with the President last week. If Fox had done the same thing a different set of hypocritical idiots would be outraged. Meh, just further evidence that cable news is a cartoon show.

Mega-Godzilla Balance Fairy-adon Batman.

65 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:12:22pm

This is inexcusable. Violent mob destroys (Koch front) AFP tent in Lansing Michigan.

Youtube Video

Michigan is a concealed carry state. What if one of the Koch shills had started shooting? It could happen, and probably will eventually.

66 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:13:06pm

Hey all,

Any word on MI Right-to-Work? Which I still don't totally understand.

67 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:14:40pm

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

This is inexcusable. Violent mob destroys (Koch front) AFP tent in Lansing Michigan.

[Embedded content]

Michigan is a concealed carry state. What if one of the Koch shills had started shooting? It could happen, and probably will eventually.

Just what they want. Now they are martyrs and victims of mob rule...

68 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:17:20pm
69 darthstar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:18:33pm

re: #66 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Hey all,

Any word on MI Right-to-Work? Which I still don't totally understand.

The law basically says unions can no longer automatically deduct funds from members' paychecks, and new employees at union houses don't have to join the union. It's a death knell for unions, and means an end to collective bargaining, though no company would ever dream of reducing costs or increasing profits by screwing their workers and lowering their salaries.

70 Lidane  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:18:48pm

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

Or this:

Youtube Video
71 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:19:35pm

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

This is inexcusable. Violent mob destroys (Koch front) AFP tent in Lansing Michigan.

[Embedded content]

Michigan is a concealed carry state. What if one of the Koch shills had started shooting? It could happen, and probably will eventually.

Read...

[Link: www.emptywheel.net...]

72 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:19:54pm

re: #15 BongCrodny

...all the WHOs* down in WHOville...

* We Hate Obama

Is that the village where the Grinch arrived on Christmas Eve carrying logic and honesty (due to his too small heart and lack of proper religiousity) and the WHOs simply shot him (and his little Muslim dog disguised as a reindeer) with their registered assault weapons?
///

73 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:22:51pm

re: #67 Sol Berdinowitz

Just what they want. Now they are martyrs and victims of mob rule...

Just a bunch of BS with Steven Crowder, AFP, Lee Stranahan, and who knows who else is involved. None of them filed charges and for all we know the whole thing could have been staged. They deliberately set the thing up knowing that there would be union protesters today in mass numbers. This is like when the Christian apologists go to Muslim events in Dearborn. They knew what environment they were setting up in.

74 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:22:56pm

re: #71 Gus

Read...

[Link: www.emptywheel.net...]

Fastest debunk in the West.

75 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:23:12pm

re: #26 Shiplord Kirel

Not entirely OT

New in pages, perhaps the clearest calls yet from freepers for civil war and violence.
Wingnut Outrage: MSNBC Airs Interview Calling for the Political Imprisonment of Conservatives and Tea Party
The cause? Some dumb comments by noted Democrat strategist and administration insider Harry Belafonte. /needless I hope.

Not so long ago, Free Republic mods would have instantly deleted inflammatory rhetoric like this. Today, it stays up.

Because JimRob is ate up with the dumbass.

76 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:23:58pm

re: #69 darthstar

The law basically says unions can no longer automatically deduct funds from members' paychecks, and new employees at union houses don't have to join the union. It's a death knell for unions, and means an end to collective bargaining, though no company would ever dream of reducing costs or increasing profits by screwing their workers and lowering their salaries.

I don't understand why they can't if the employee signs a form stating they can.

77 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:25:10pm

Federal Court overturned IL concealed carry Ban --hubby just told me.

78 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:26:09pm

re: #74 wrenchwench

Fastest debunk in the West.

Shenanigans.

79 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:27:26pm

Just paged it.

Look for major guns sales in ILLinois for Xmas straw gift purchases. ;)

I'm not unhappy about it. I don't think it will change much of anything. Except gun sales.

80 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:28:56pm

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

This is inexcusable. Violent mob destroys (Koch front) AFP tent in Lansing Michigan.

[Embedded content]

Michigan is a concealed carry state. What if one of the Koch shills had started shooting? It could happen, and probably will eventually.

It's another totally fraudulent edited video from Lee Stranahan and the other Breitbart clowns.

81 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:30:01pm

re: #76 Holidays are Family Fun Time

I don't understand why they can't if the employee signs a form stating they can.

Management is counting on employees being self-interested enough and focused on the short-term by expecting them to game the system - get the benefits of union participation while not contributing to funding the union. And use that to reduce the unions ability to collect money for paying their leadership, lawyers, etc.

82 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:30:49pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

It's another totally fraudulent edited video from Lee Stranahan and the other Breitbart clowns.

No way!

83 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:30:59pm

re: #71 Gus

Read...

[Link: www.emptywheel.net...]

We'll see. The false flag story appeared very quickly indeed, though, and relies heavily on the reports of otherwise unidentified "witnesses." It's hard to tell who is whom in the video but it would take some very elaborate choreography to fake this for a video camera in the middle of a noisy mob.

84 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:33:55pm

If they are so violent, where are the bodies?

85 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:34:07pm

Shalom

86 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:34:24pm

re: #83 Shiplord Kirel

We'll see. The false flag story appeared very quickly indeed, though, and relies heavily on the reports of otherwise unidentified "witnesses." It's hard to tell who is whom in the video but it would take some very elaborate choreography to fake this for a video camera in the middle of a noisy mob.

1st clue is that Steven Crowder and Lee Stranahan are involved.

87 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:35:25pm

re: #86 Gus

1st clue is that Steven Crowder and Lee Stranahan are involved.

Wingnuts will seethe about this forever, it is the new "Benghazi"

88 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:35:53pm

Steven Crowder knew very well that if he went into a crowd of very pissed off working class union members who had just had their livelihoods taken away by a dishonest gang of Republican 1%ers, and started spewing wingnut talking points at them, there was a pretty good chance he could get one of them to take a swing at him.

89 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:36:02pm

re: #83 Shiplord Kirel

We'll see. The false flag story appeared very quickly indeed, though, and relies heavily on the reports of otherwise unidentified "witnesses."

It's Breitbart. Everything they say is a lie until proven otherwise. If they say the sky is blue, look out the window to make sure.

90 palomino  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:36:21pm

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

True, very true. Though it does bear repeating that had Bill Clinton not lied in deposition in the Paula Jones case, then Ken Starr would have never been handed the whole Lewinsky mess (DoJ assigned it to him, he didn't request it), and a great deal of brouhaha never would have ensued.

You write this as if Ken Starr was an innocent bureaucrat just doing his job as required by law. Which of course is bullshit. Starr searched and searched for Whitewater evidence to use against Clinton, then stumbled upon the Lewinsky affair. He was the special prosecutor and had some discretion...he chose to throw the book at Clinton for lying (in a civil--not criminal...deposition--not trial.)

If the whole thing was more than BS, Clinton wouldn't be--by far--the most popular living president. Fact is, the American people are (mostly) adults who don't give a shit if a guy, even the Prez, gets a blowjob and then keeps it a secret. At this point, the only people who care are hardcore partisans and puritans.

91 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:37:44pm

Believe me if there was bloodlust in the presence of the AFP, there would be casualties. Not some smug piece of shit running around pretending he was assaulted.

92 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:38:17pm

re: #90 palomino

You write this as if Ken Starr was an innocent bureaucrat just doing his job as required by law. Which of course is bullshit. Starr searched and searched for Whitewater evidence to use against Clinton, then stumbled upon the Lewinsky affair. He was the special prosecutor and had some discretion...he chose to throw the book at Clinton for lying (in a civil--not criminal...deposition--not trial.)

If the whole thing was more than BS, Clinton wouldn't be--by far--the most popular living president. Fact is, the American people are (mostly) adults who don't give a shit if a guy, even the Prez, gets a blowjob and then keeps it a secret. At this point, the only people who care are hardcore partisans and puritans.

Frankly, it was no one's business but Hillary's. He didn't screw the wife of a a foreign leader or anything that would in anyway be considered a security issue.

I'd be really pissed if someone used my marriage for political gain that way.

93 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:39:30pm

re: #88 Charles Johnson

Steven Crowder knew very well that if he went into a crowd of very pissed off working class union members who had just had their livelihoods taken away by a dishonest gang of Republican 1%ers, and started spewing wingnut talking points at them, there was a pretty good chance he could get one of them to take a swing at him.

We saw this at Wisconsin as well, TPers all but wearing a "Kick Me" sign as they heckled union members and tried to provoke them to violence.

If the crowd were every bit as "violent" as the wingnuts claimed, Crowder would have left there on a stretcher.

94 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:39:31pm

re: #87 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts will seethe about this forever, it is the new "Benghazi"

[Embedded content]

So staged. He got what he was looking for. Like I said, they set that tent up over there deliberately and Crowder started opening his big mouth and instigated the crowd. He went there looking to incite, get it on video, then high tail it out of there. That's all he wanted. Didn't even call the cops. Didn't press charges.

95 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:41:33pm

re: #94 Gus

So staged. He got what he was looking for. Like I said, they set that tent up over there deliberately and Crowder started opening his big mouth and instigated the crowd. He went there looking to incite, get it on video, then high tail it out of there. That's all he wanted. Didn't even call the cops. Didn't press charges.

'course not. Because if he did, he'd have to submit the video. And the moment the cops saw him out there, egging them on, they'd charge his ass with filing a false report.

96 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:41:44pm

The AFP video is bouncing around in the seethe machine.

OMG IT'S BENGHAZI IN MICHIGANISTAN!1!TY

97 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:41:50pm

Plus Crowder/Stranahan edited out the video right before we see that one guy with the beard reading Crowder the riot act.

98 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:42:34pm

Where are the fucking bodies?

99 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:43:07pm

re: #98 Amory Blaine

Where are the fucking bodies?

Are you demanding habeus corpus?

100 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:43:38pm

Alternate reality challenged:

101 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:43:50pm

re: #94 Gus

It did take an enormous amount of ... what do you call it? Bravery? No. Stupidity? Not exactly. Balls? Not really.

He's lucky he got out of the crowd alive. I absolutely don't condone the union member who got fed up and started swinging, if it really was a union member. But I understand.

102 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:44:14pm
103 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:45:23pm

re: #100 Kronocide

Alternate reality challenged:

Sadly, the moderate Democrats are all gone: expelled by a coalition of violent radicals and anti-rational extremists who believe in Keynes.

All headed by a radical Keynan Keynesian?

104 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:45:45pm

re: #100 Kronocide

Alternate reality challenged:

[Embedded content]

DARVO so thick you couldn't stir it with a stick.

105 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:45:46pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

It did take an enormous amount of ... what do you call it? Bravery? No. Stupidity? Not exactly. Balls? Not really.

He's lucky he got out of the crowd alive. I absolutely don't condone the union member who got fed up and started swinging, if it really was a union member. But I understand.

So, he created a self-fulfilling prophecy to bolster his premise that Union members are all bad, lazy, violent cretins who need to be controlled by their ever so smarter and cultured corporate employers?

106 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:46:24pm

re: #100 Kronocide

Alternate reality challenged:

[Embedded content]

Projecting on the Big Screen.

107 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:47:01pm

re: #100 Kronocide

Alternate reality challenged:

[Embedded content]

I am now a Keynesian in economics. - Richard M. Nixon, noted extremist Democrat.

108 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:47:45pm

re: #105 Holidays are Family Fun Time

So, he created a self-fulfilling prophecy to bolster his premise that Union members are all bad, lazy, violent cretins who need to be controlled by their ever so smarter and cultured corporate employers?

They went there looking for a fight.

109 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:48:15pm

re: #108 Gus

They went there looking for a fight.

It's what Fred Phelps does, basically.

110 dragonath  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:48:28pm

In light of the recent action in Michigan, I wonder if the Republicans are forfeiting the 40% or so of union members who vote Republican. A five or ten percent change would be a big deal.

111 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:48:45pm

re: #108 Gus

They went there looking for a fight.

Look at the satisfed smirk on his face at the end of the video. He got exactly what wanted.

112 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:50:53pm

Pax

113 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:51:19pm

re: #109 Obdicut

It's what Fred Phelps does, basically.

AFP is the Phelps cult of the economy.

114 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:52:04pm

re: #111 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

Look at the satisfed smirk on his face at the end of the video. He got exactly what wanted.

If that guy was actually dealing with any bloodthirsty people, his expression would be very different.

115 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:52:19pm

Okay, since I am no longer a Republican, I can admit I was wrong for the most part.
Upon further review, it seems that the AFP gang was itself about to take the tent down and some of the union members let their enthusiasm get away from them and decided to help out.
At the beginning of the Breitbart clip, a man shouts, "there it goes!," indicating that the tent was coming down at that point, yet we hear no shouting, cursing, or other signs of a real confrontation. A little later, the AFP guy (tan jacket and white badge) seems completely unconcerned with the union members pulling and tugging on the tent, nor are they paying much attention to him. Note also that the entire enormous tent structure collapses almost simultaneously, which is unlikely to be the result of a mob attack randomly slashing and pulling at the ropes.

116 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:52:51pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

If that guy was actually dealing with any bloodthirsty people, his expression would be very different.

If they were as violent as alleged, you'd have trouble reading his expressed amongst all the blood and bruises.

117 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:53:28pm

re: #112 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Pax

A dog giving birth to a cat. Now there's proof of evolution for you, almost as good as a crocoduck. Someone alert Ray Comfort.

118 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:54:33pm

re: #115 Shiplord Kirel

Okay, since I am no longer a Republican, I can admit I was wrong for the most part.

Upon further review, it seems that the AFP gang was itself about to take the tent down and some of the union members let their enthusiasm get away from them and decided to help out.

At the beginning of the Breitbart clip, a man shouts, "there it does!," indicating that the tent was coming down at that point, yet we hear no shouting, cursing, or other signs of a real confrontation. A little later, the AFP guy (tan jacket and white badge) seems completely unconcerned with the union members pulling and tugging on the tent, nor are they paying much attention to him. Note also that the entire enormous tent structure collapses almost simultaneously, which is unlikely to be the result of a mob attack randomly slashing and pulling at the ropes.

Yup. It's a fake story.

119 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:55:48pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Yup. It's a fake story.

From a fake news site.

120 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:57:40pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

From a fake news site.

Which will then be reported by Breitbart as the rest of the media covering up union thuggery for the unions and doing Obama's bidding. The circle of conspiracy is now complete.

121 dragonath  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:58:21pm

Well, now that Michigan is changing a system that has more or less worked for it's members for years the workers are to get what exactly?

The Republican platform is very little give and a whole lot of take.

122 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:58:33pm

re: #120 lawhawk

Which will then be reported by Breitbart as the rest of the media covering up union thuggery for the unions and doing Obama's bidding. The circle of conspiracy is now complete.

It's win-win for the Breitbart franchise. //

123 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:58:58pm

re: #120 lawhawk

Which will then be reported by Breitbart as the rest of the media covering up union thuggery for the unions and doing Obama's bidding. The circle of conspiracy is now complete.

And shameless hacks like Matt Drudge will report on the Breitbartian allegations as if they're real news.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

124 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:59:35pm

re: #123 Targetpractice

And shameless hacks like Matt Drudge will report on the Breitbartian allegations as if they're real news.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Why do we seem to be living two realities in politics these days?

125 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:59:36pm

re: #121 dragonath

Well, now that Michigan is changing a system that has more or less worked for it's members for years the workers are to get what exactly?

A kick in the ass.

126 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:59:44pm

re: #122 Gus

It's win-win for the Breitbart franchise. //

Worse yet, they won the right to work be exploited vote.

127 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 12:59:48pm

re: #120 lawhawk

Which will then be reported by Breitbart as the rest of the media covering up union thuggery for the unions and doing Obama's bidding. The circle of conspiracy is now complete.

Censored by the Obama controlled news media complex.

//

128 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:00:01pm

re: #121 dragonath

Well, now that Michigan is changing a system that has more or less worked for it's members for years the workers are to get what exactly?

The Republican platform is very little give and a whole lot of take.

Hadn't you heard? There's all sorts of companies who are beating down Michigan's doors, waiting for them to go RtW before setting up shop.

///

129 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:01:02pm

re: #128 Targetpractice

Hadn't you heard? There's all sorts of companies who are beating down Michigan's doors, waiting for them to go RtW before setting up shop.

///

I thought they were just waiting for the trees to grow to the right height.

130 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:01:34pm

I have to be productive again, and then nap.

Have a great afternoon all!

131 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:03:11pm

After following a number of comments and posts in the threads I wrote a little letter that I thought was worth posting here.

Do not let knee-jerk left-wing magical balance fairies dissuade you from stating the truth any more than right-wing magical balance fairies would.

Certain hot -button issues make certain people simply blind to any facts, truth, logic or evidence that does not fit their own internal narrative. The supposedly more educated and enlightened left, (and in general and certainly in America they are more enlightened and educated) is blind to the security realities of Israel, the deprivations of the Palestinian pseudo terrorist states, the larger Arab political game in which the Palestinians are pawns and the greater global power game in which both they and Israel are pawns - not to mention the actual factual history.

They want to see the Palestinians as poor and oppressed folks who are simply victims. That is their narrative. We Jews are good proxies for a lot of Western guilt. They can not stomach the idea that the Palestinians never fail to fail at peace, do not want peace and brought much of the situation on themselves. There would be no walls and checkpoints if there were no suicide bombers. That is why the walls and checkpoints were made. Because of the walls they turned to rockets. There would be no military clean ups in Gaza if there were no rocket attacks. Of course, Gaza used to be Egypt and it used to be the West bank of Jordan. There would be no Gaza or West Bank if not for the larger Arab political game.

But such details are not relevant to the fervid left. Don't even try to tell them about the crushed Palestinian coup in Jordan - or the obvious implications of that for the region. Don't even try to tell them about the three no's. Don't bother reminding them that Hamas really was voted into power on a "we murder more Jews campaign" and that the Palestinians therefore voted for war and honestly have responsibility when Hamas starts wars.

Many thousands more Arabs died in Syria, and are still dying than in the recent unpleasantness. Our lefty pearl clutchers barely seem to notice that. That was because it was Arab on Arab.

Such details are not relevant.

The left is nothing if not a hypocrite on Israel and just as blind to the truths of the situation as the right is on issues of climate, women's rights and the age of the universe.

They are just as blind.

They are just as unwilling to listen to reason.

Just like righties, they will glance past these facts and move to other talking points.

However, it is worth it and necessary to keep telling the truth. Not everyone has drunk this particular cool-aid.

132 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:03:48pm

re: #131 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Rochi has left the building.

133 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:03:51pm

re: #131 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Rochi got banned for linking to a Fjordmann site.

134 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:04:03pm

Oh great.

135 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:04:17pm

Huh?

136 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:05:26pm

re: #133 Obdicut

Rochi got banned for linking to a Fjordmann site.

More than once.

137 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:05:55pm

re: #133 Obdicut

Rochi got banned for linking to a Fjordmann site.

That was not cool of her. I in no way support that freak.

138 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:06:32pm

re: #136 Charles Johnson

More than once.

That I did not know.

Obviously, I am not cool with that.

139 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:06:40pm

re: #137 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Well, that's the company you're keeping with this whackaloon stuff about how the 'leftists' are all anti-Israel.

Maybe you should remember more often that the majority of US Jews are 'leftists'.

140 darthstar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:06:54pm

I could go for some Almond Rochi about now...love that stuff.

141 BongCrodny  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:07:07pm

re: #107 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

I am now a Keynesian in economics. - Richard M. Nixon, noted extremist Democrat.

You can't spell Richard Nixon without R-I-N-O!

142 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:07:44pm

re: #136 Charles Johnson

More than once.

Edited to take out reference to that then, however, my thoughts in general on the situation, I think are still valid.

143 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:08:39pm

re: #139 Obdicut

Well, that's the company you're keeping with this whackaloon stuff about how the 'leftists' are all anti-Israel.

Maybe you should remember more often that the majority of US Jews are 'leftists'.

I have been unfollowing a whole bunch of people on Twitter that I was following because they are "pro Israel" but who have drank the Geller and Breitbart kool aid and full blown Obama psychosis.

144 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:09:16pm

re: #139 Obdicut

Well, that's the company you're keeping with this whackaloon stuff about how the 'leftists' are all anti-Israel.

Maybe you should remember more often that the majority of US Jews are 'leftists'.

Wow what a straw man Obdi.

No the US center left is not anti-Israel and never has been.

The far left and certain anti-Israel trolls here certainly are.

145 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:10:12pm

re: #52 Sol Berdinowitz

Yeah, Peart goes back on Rand in this Rolling Stone interview. He calls himself a bleeding heart libertarian:

This is somewhat random, but you were interested in the writings of Ayn Rand decades ago. Do her words still speak to you?
Oh, no. That was 40 years ago. But it was important to me at the time in a transition of finding myself and having faith that what I believed was worthwhile. I had come up with that moral attitude about music, and then in my late teens I moved to England to seek fame and fortune and all that, and I was kind of stunned by the cynicism and the factory-like atmosphere of the music world over there, and it shook me. I'm thinking, "Am I wrong? Am I stupid and naïve? This is the way that everybody does everything and, had I better get with the program?"

For me, it was an affirmation that it's all right to totally believe in something and live for it and not compromise. It was a simple as that. On that 2112 album, again, I was in my early twenties. I was a kid. Now I call myself a bleeding heart libertarian. Because I do believe in the principles of Libertarianism as an ideal – because I'm an idealist. Paul Theroux's definition of a cynic is a disappointed idealist. So as you go through past your twenties, your idealism is going to be disappointed many many times. And so, I've brought my view and also – I've just realized this – Libertarianism as I understood it was very good and pure and we're all going to be successful and generous to the less fortunate and it was, to me, not dark or cynical. But then I soon saw, of course, the way that it gets twisted by the flaws of humanity. And that's when I evolve now into . . . a bleeding heart Libertarian. That'll do.

146 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:10:24pm

The last straw was when she posted a link to this site: [Link: rightweb.irc-online.org...]

147 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:11:22pm

More to the point, the main thrust of my post is now derailed completely.

Magical balance fairies are always anti-truth. It doesn't matter the source.

148 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:11:29pm

re: #143 Vicious Babushka

A lot of 'moderate' people bought into the Obama-as-anti-Israel bullshit, since it was sold so hard. And the fact that Israel's government has swung far to the right doesn't help, either.

149 darthstar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:11:44pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

The last straw was when she posted a link to this site:

Their first and bolded line is a disclaimer.

150 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:12:52pm

re: #144 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Here's what you actually said, Ludwig:

The supposedly more educated and enlightened left, (and in general and certainly in America they are more enlightened and educated) is blind to the security realities of Israel, the deprivations of the Palestinian pseudo terrorist states, the larger Arab political game in which the Palestinians are pawns and the greater global power game in which both are pawns - not to mention the actual factual history.

Nothing in there about the far left.

Just a usual 'ermaghad the left is anti-Israel' screed.

151 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:13:03pm

re: #148 Obdicut

A lot of 'moderate' people bought into the Obama-as-anti-Israel bullshit, since it was sold so hard. And the fact that Israel's government has swung far to the right doesn't help, either.

I realized all the "Obama is anti-Israel!" was bullshit when MJ Rosenberg lost his shit because Obama was too pro-Israel.

152 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:13:03pm

re: #149 darthstar

I know - I meant she posted a link to the site described in that article at Right Web.

153 darthstar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:14:03pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

I know - I meant she posted a link to the site described in that article at Right Web.

Plausible deniability must be a prerequisite of membership.

154 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:14:20pm

re: #150 Obdicut

Here's what you actually said, Ludwig:

Nothing in there about the far left.

Just a usual 'ermaghad the left is anti-Israel' screed.

Noun, verb, teh left.

155 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:15:07pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

The last straw was when she posted a link to this site: [Link: rightweb.irc-online.org...]

Wow... OK...

Yeah that is nuts. I don't blame you and I am certainly not defending that stuff. The right wing's "support" of Israel by being as delusional and psychotic as it is hurts Israel just as badly as the far left delusions.

That said, I really wish this would not be about her. I've seen enough magical balance fairy comments from the other side to feel the need to write what I did.

The bottom line is that Israel is far from perfect, no-one claims she is, but she is also certainly not as bad as Hamas or the PLO and never has been despite the attempts of certain folks to paint her that way.

156 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:16:16pm

Not to say that real anti-Semitism doesn't exist.

157 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:17:29pm
158 dragonath  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:18:02pm

McCain: I would teach Stephen Colbert ‘how to shut up’

Ruh roh McCain.

159 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:18:17pm

The Gatestone Institute is another far right outfit funded by a crazed anti-Muslim billionaire, with links to people like Robert Spencer, Andrew Bostom, Fjordman, etc. etc. There's enough money being thrown around that they've also attracted some more mainstream conservative writers, but the main thrust is anti-Muslim propaganda.

160 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:18:25pm

re: #155 Mad Prophet Ludwig

That said, I really wish this would not be about her.

You're the one who entered the thread specifically calling her out for praise.

Now you're saying you wish it wasn't about her.

161 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:19:01pm

re: #158 dragonath

McCain: I would teach Stephen Colbert ‘how to shut up’

Ruh roh McCain.

I wish he would get mad at important things not the fact that Stephen Colbert's humor goes way over his head.

162 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:19:11pm

re: #155 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Wow... OK...

Yeah that is nuts. I don't blame you and I am certainly not defending that stuff. The right wing's "support" of Israel by being as delusional and psychotic as it is hurts Israel just as badly as the far left delusions.

That said, I really wish this would not be about her. I've seen enough magical balance fairy comments from the other side to feel the need to write what I did.

The bottom line is that Israel is far from perfect, no-one claims she is, but she is also certainly not as bad as Hamas or the PLO and never has been despite the attempts of certain folks to paint her that way.

Linky?

163 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:19:14pm
164 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:19:22pm

re: #150 Obdicut

Here's what you actually said, Ludwig:

Nothing in there about the far left.

Just a usual 'ermaghad the left is anti-Israel' screed.

And way to not read, make a straw man and ignore the issues raised.

Yes I said left - very pointedly not center left - which is what most Jews, most Democrats and about half the country in general is.

LEFT as in nothing center about it.

And that LEFT has a problem with Israel, much as the RIGHT has a problem with climate, the age of the universe and women's rights.

I also said "Just like righties, they will glance past these facts and move to other talking points."

Which is of course exactly what you are doing, in much the same way climate deniers try to shift from facts.

165 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:19:42pm

re: #140 darthstar

I could go for some Almond Rochi about now...love that stuff.

A bag of Almond Rochi and I'm all happy. Charles banned Almond Rochi? Why does he hate delicious nut based treats?

166 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:20:02pm

re: #155 Mad Prophet Ludwig

I just wanted you to know that she wasn't thrown out of here because her free speech was stifled, but because she was linking to sites that promote hatred and bigotry.

167 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:20:20pm

Please do not make fun of the name Rochi. My beautiful granddaughter is named Rochi.

168 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:20:43pm

re: #163 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Who are people who need a life, Alex?

169 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:20:51pm

And I haven't worked so hard to renounce the anti-Muslim bigot brigade only to have people come in here and spread that same old shit again.

170 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:21:31pm
171 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:21:36pm

re: #165 Kronocide

A bag of Almond Rochi and I'm all happy. Charles banned Almond Rochi? Why does he hate delicious nut based treats?

You got the nut-based part right.

172 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:22:00pm

re: #164 Mad Prophet Ludwig

And this is a pitiful backpedal.

Left includes center-left.

I also said "Just like righties, they will glance past these facts and move to other talking points."

Yeah. Another good exmaple of how you were clearly talking about 'the left' as a whole.

Which is of course exactly what you are doing, in much the same way climate deniers try to shift from facts.

That's right, Ludwig. Bust in here to defend someone who was banned for linking to Fjordmann, bluster about how the intellectual left is anti-Israel, and now start equating me with climate deniers.

It's really sad when you let yourself get like this. What you are is so much less than what you could be if you could just control your temper on occasion.

173 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:22:21pm

re: #160 Obdicut

You're the one who entered the thread specifically calling her out for praise.

Now you're saying you wish it wasn't about her.

NO I said I that comments on some of her threads caused me to write what I did.

Again a straw man, a lie and not looking at the main points which are plain as day.

Again just like debating a climate denier.

174 dragonfire1981  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:22:30pm

re: #159 Charles Johnson

The Gatestone Institute is another far right outfit funded by a crazed anti-Muslim billionaire, with links to people like Robert Spencer, Andrew Bostom, Fjordman, etc. etc. There's enough money being thrown around that they've also attracted some more mainstream conservative writers, but the main thrust is anti-Muslim propaganda.

No joke. At first I read that as the Gallstone institute.

175 Bulworth  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:22:42pm
Who’s more credible than the people who promoted the idiotic fake controversy over Harvard Prof. Derrick Bell, or the people who think The Onion is antisemitic, or the people who posted pictures of Libyan rescuers trying to save Ambassador Stevens and labeled them as “terrorists dragging his body through the streets,” or the dishonest right wing shills who falsely claimed Obama was trying to restrict military voting?

People like the Breitbarts are what made many of us, circa 2010, wonder how in the hell we were losing to these people.

Well, thankfully, we didn't lose to them this time.

176 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:22:45pm

re: #173 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Take a deep breath.

177 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:22:49pm

re: #173 Mad Prophet Ludwig

This is too depressing. I'm out. Flail around as long as you like.

178 blueraven  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:22:52pm

re: #160 Obdicut

You're the one who entered the thread specifically calling her out for praise.

Now you're saying you wish it wasn't about her.

She gets the benefit of the doubt I guess, whereas us lefties are just anti-Semites.

179 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:22:53pm

re: #174 dragonfire1981

No joke. At first I read that as the Gallstone institute.

Hah! I did too.

180 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:24:13pm

re: #173 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Again just like debating a climate denier.

WTF is wrong with you?

I'm out too.

181 darthstar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:24:38pm

Do you feel the love? I feel it. It sure feels like Xmas in here.

182 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:24:42pm

re: #155 Mad Prophet Ludwig

That said, I really wish this would not be about her. I've seen enough magical balance fairy comments from the other side to feel the need to write what I did.

Why here? Why now? Why bring her into it in the first place? If you take issue with some people, then why not take it up with them directly?

183 dragonfire1981  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:25:23pm

re: #170 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Well normally I take pride when my state is #1 in something...but not this time.

184 darthstar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:25:40pm

re: #181 darthstar

Do you feel the love? I feel it. It sure feels like Xmas in here.

Just need to pump a couple more gin-n-tonics into mom and we'll be golden.

185 Mattand  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:26:39pm

re: #131 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Purely anecdotal on my end, but most of the Jewish people I know lean left or center left, and are very sensitive to criticism of Israel.

And quite frankly, most of the conservatives I know are pro-Israel mainly because they are more bigoted towards Arabs and Muslims than they are Jews. Which, unfortunately, is saying something.

Your milage may vary, of course, but I find the whole "liberals/leftists want to see Israel nuked" horseshit baffling, to put it mildly.

186 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:26:45pm

the thing i hate about the palestinian/israeli debate is that everybody wants you to take sides

187 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:26:49pm

re: #184 darthstar

While you're pouring, pass a few this way.

188 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:27:03pm

re: #177 Obdicut

This is too depressing. I'm out. Flail around as long as you like.

Sadly, I was enjoying reading the thread before it was hijacked.

I don't even get it. What's the point. Are we back to having to type in the obligatory "Hamas is the worst thing EVAH!" before anything else is posted?

189 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:27:17pm

re: #166 Charles Johnson

I just wanted you to know that she wasn't thrown out of here because her free speech was stifled, but because she was linking to sites that promote hatred and bigotry.

Yeah.

I hear you and agree with you.


The origin of my post is a more of a general response to a bunch of responses to her and what was said in references to the articles I saw.

That said,

It wasn't just stuff I saw posted on her threads that prompted the little essay. Pretty much any pro-Israel thread these days gets some knee-jerk trolling. I am not saying that the trolls need to be stifled or that they should not be allowed to express themselves. However, they do need to be answered with some actual facts.

190 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:27:28pm

re: #186 engineer cat

the thing i hate about the palestinian/israeli debate is that everybody wants you to take sides

I hate you for taking the side of not taking sides ///////

191 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:27:32pm

re: #184 darthstar

Just need to pump a couple more gin-n-tonics into mom and we'll be golden.

Hmm. Building has a holiday reception starting in 4 minutes. gin-&-tonix might be the proper solution to get moving towards evening activities.

Which unfortunately is laundry... :(

192 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:27:45pm

Meanwhile, police are using pepper spray against protesters at the Michigan Capitol: Mark Schauer Pepper-Sprayed Outside Capitol | Battle Creek Enquirer | battlecreekenquirer.com

193 dragonfire1981  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:28:51pm

When I did my journalism studies my professor repeatedly rammed into our heads that it was, in general, poor policy to use unnamed sources. These are commonly cited using such terms as:

"A person familiar with the matter"
"A _____ official speaking on condition of anonymity"
"A source with personal knowledge"

And so on and so forth. His reasoning was that there is no way to verify these "sources" so they shouldn't be used. He felt if someone was truly wanting to make a public statement about something, they should be willing to put their name on it.

He did however, understand anonymity conditions in certain circumstances where there is a high security level present (for example top ranking government officials).

194 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:28:59pm

re: #188 Ghost of Tom Joad

I remember Ludwig.

Mostly because he thought it was okay to call some of my friends terrorists, because of the evil crime of being a Palestinian.

He also has a hard time understanding that non-Palestinians live in Jordan.

195 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:29:07pm

re: #186 engineer cat

the thing i hate about the palestinian/israeli debate is that everybody wants you to take sides

Just twist it into a Mobius strip, pull an arrow from the Romney quiver, and tell them you are on both sides, and neither.

;)

196 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:29:13pm

re: #24 Amory Blaine

George Bush's lies to invade Iraq has poisoned this country.

Do you remember who said this on April 29th 1991 in defense of George H.W. Bush's decision not to invade Iraq?

I think that the proposition of going to Baghdad is also fallacious. I think if we were going to remove Saddam Hussein we would have had to go all the way to Baghdad, we would have to commit a lot of force because I do not believe he would wait in the Presidential Palace for us to arrive. I think we'd have had to hunt him down. And once we'd done that and we'd gotten rid of Saddam Hussein and his government, then we'd have had to put another government in its place.

What kind of government? Should it be a Sunni government or Shi'i government or a Kurdish government or Ba'athist regime? Or maybe we want to bring in some of the Islamic fundamentalists? How long would we have had to stay in Baghdad to keep that government in place? What would happen to the government once U.S. forces withdrew? How many casualties should the United States accept in that effort to try to create clarity and stability in a situation that is inherently unstable?

I think it is vitally important for a President to know when to use military force. I think it is also very important for him to know when not to commit U.S. military force. And it's my view that the President got it right both times, that it would have been a mistake for us to get bogged down in the quagmire inside Iraq.

Dick Cheney.
Amazing how invading Iraq turned into a "cakewalk" and none of those obvious and entirely correct considerations were brought up when he was trying to sell it to Congress only ten years later isn't it?

197 dragonath  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:29:14pm

re: #170 Vicious Babushka

Yeah, man, maybe Michigan will get all those high paying jobs that were relocated from Mississippi.

198 dragonfire1981  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:29:28pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, police are using pepper spray against protesters at the Michigan Capitol: Mark Schauer Pepper-Sprayed Outside Capitol | Battle Creek Enquirer | battlecreekenquirer.com

Serves those commie pukes right!

199 blueraven  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:30:14pm

re: #189 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Yeah.

I hear you and agree with you.

The origin of my post is a more of a general response to a bunch of responses to her and what was said in references to the articles I saw.

That said,

It wasn't just stuff I saw posted on her threads that prompted the little essay. Pretty much any pro-Israel thread these days gets some knee-jerk trolling. I am not saying that the trolls need to be stifled or that they should not be allowed to express themselves. However, they do need to be answered with some actual facts.

And you have every right and opportunity to do that. Why post this on an unrelated thread? Why not, as CL asked, confront them directly?

200 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:31:21pm

re: #195 Feline Fearless Leader

Just twist it into a Mobius strip, pull an arrow from the Romney quiver, and tell them you are on both sides, and neither.

;)

it's a problem in set theory: is the side of 'not taking sides' its own side?

201 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:31:58pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

So far the only case of pepper spray being used so far has been this one
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

Michigan State Police used pepper spray to subdue a protester outside the Capitol who tried to pull a female trooper into a crowd.

202 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:32:20pm

re: #200 engineer cat

it's a problem in set theory: is the side of 'not taking sides' its own side?

Sort of like "bald" being a hair color? :)

203 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:32:38pm

Crowder's stunt was coordinated with Fox News:

204 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:33:11pm

re: #203 Charles Johnson

Crowder's stunt was coordinated with Fox News:

[Embedded content]

Sean "Never Seen A Hoax I Couldn't Promote" Hannity.

205 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:33:27pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

So far the only case of pepper spray being used so far has been this one
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

That's older than the article Charles posted.

206 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:35:12pm

re: #203 Charles Johnson

Crowder has the most punchable face in Human History.

Doesn't help that he is a massive prick.

207 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:36:26pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

So far the only case of pepper spray being used so far has been this one
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

Um, again: Mark Schauer Pepper-Sprayed Outside Capitol | Battle Creek Enquirer | battlecreekenquirer.com

Former congressman Mark Schauer said he was pepper-sprayed by police today while leading anti-right to work protesters outside the state Capitol.

Schauer said he was part of a crowd of protesters outside the Capitol's north wing as the Michigan House was voting on controversial right-to-work measures. Schauer said police came to move the protesters away from the building. He said he tried to negotiate a line away from the Capitol that police would accept when he and "a number" of people were sprayed.

208 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:37:19pm

Here we go again.
Sigh.

209 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:37:38pm

re: #205 Varek Raith

That's older than the article Charles posted.

It also doesn't include the police account of what happened. More confirmation here
[Link: news.blogs.cnn.com...]

[Updated at 1:35 p.m. ET] Michigan State Police are explaining two incidents that occurred during the protests.

There was an incident where pepper spray was used, but it was only because the crowd at the Capitol had grabbed an officer, according to their Twitter account.

So far that seems to be the only use of pepper spray today and it seems justified.
Everybody has cell phones these days. I'm sure there will be video.

210 dragonath  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:39:31pm

Can't trust a former congressman, oh no. Jeez.

211 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:39:35pm

Right to work just seems like such a stupid idea in a state with such a big labor movement past and present like Michigan. This should remind anyone who thinks off year elections aren't as important that they are just as important as any presidential election year. A wise man from Massachusetts once observed that all politics is local. He's now long gone but he was right.

212 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:39:55pm

re: #202 Feline Fearless Leader

Sort of like "bald" being a hair color? :)

"they call me dr cleanhead... because my hair is bald"

- eddie "cleanhead" vinson 1917-1988

213 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:40:18pm

Oh, good. We're going to go back to the Golden Age of OWS with this pepper-spray stuff, aren't we?

Maybe I'll just leave early to pick up my wife and go sit at the train station for a half hour.

214 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:40:36pm

re: #202 Feline Fearless Leader

Sort of like "bald" being a hair color? :)

Not playing football is a sport!

215 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:41:02pm

re: #213 makeitstop

Oh, good. We're going to go back to the Golden Age of OWS with this pepper-spray stuff, aren't we?

Maybe I'll just leave early to pick up my wife and go sit at the train station for a half hour.

Maybe paint a wall and watch the paint dry. //

216 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:41:45pm
217 dragonath  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:42:26pm

re: #211 HappyWarrior

Just another permutation of Rove's 50+1 strategy...

1) Demonize the union members
2) ???
3) Profit!

218 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:42:41pm
MSNBC Video
219 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:42:53pm

I promise that this will be the last I post of this for now. I think I've made my point rather clearly.

re: #172 Obdicut

It's really sad when you let yourself get like this. What you are is so much less than what you could be if you could just control your temper on occasion.

Really?

My temper is quite even. I am refusing to play your game and stay on my main points.

For example:

re: #199 blueraven

And you have every right and opportunity to do that. Why post this on an unrelated thread? Why not, as CL asked, confront them directlry?

Because I wanted what I wrote to be seen in general. Because I knew that my post's main points would be simply ignored. Because that is a point within a point.

The post really, truly was prompted by numerous comments I saw on the threads. The last one I saw happened to be from Rochi. It could just have easily been the comments made to a post by Electric infidel, or almost anytime Destro weighs in on Israel.

And as yet certain usual suspects dance around the guts of the issue.

Let me reiterate:

They want to see the Palestinians as poor and oppressed folks who are simply victims. That is their narrative. We Jews are good proxies for a lot of Western guilt. They can not stomach the idea that the Palestinians never fail to fail at peace, do not want peace and brought much of the situation on themselves. There would be no walls and checkpoints if there were no suicide bombers. That is why the walls and checkpoints were made. Because of the walls they turned to rockets. There would be no military clean ups in Gaza if there were no rocket attacks. Of course, Gaza used to be Egypt and it used to be the West bank of Jordan. There would be no Gaza or West Bank if not for the larger Arab political game.

But such details are not relevant to the fervid left. Don't even try to tell them about the crushed Palestinian coup in Jordan - or the obvious implications of that for the region. Don't even try to tell them about the three no's. Don't bother reminding them that Hamas really was voted into power on a "we murder more Jews campaign" and that the Palestinians therefore voted for war and honestly have responsibility when Hamas starts wars.

Many thousands more Arabs died in Syria, and are still dying than in the recent unpleasantness. Our lefty pearl clutchers barely seem to notice that. That was because it was Arab on Arab.

220 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:43:25pm

re: #211 HappyWarrior

Right to work just seems like such a stupid idea in a state with such a big labor movement past and present like Michigan. This should remind anyone who thinks off year elections aren't as important that they are just as important as any presidential election year. A wise man from Massachusetts once observed that all politics is local. He's now long gone but he was right.

RtW is stupid if your aim is improve conditions for workers or job prospects for the unemployed. If your aim is to bust unions and drive down the cost of doing business by turning workers into wage slaves, then it's absolute genius.

221 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:44:21pm

re: #194 ProGunLiberal

I remember Ludwig.

Mostly because he thought it was okay to call some of my friends terrorists, because of the evil crime of being a Palestinian.

He also has a hard time understanding that non-Palestinians live in Jordan.

Wow... what a lie. NO I have never ever claimed that all Palestinians are terrorists.

Not once not ever.

However, you are fitting the profile I was talking about quite well. Do continue to make my point.

222 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:45:19pm

and here's the video
Michigan State Police Pepper Spraying Michigan Protesters

Youtube Video

Hard to tell what's going on, a bit of a scuffle.
223 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:45:20pm

re: #147 Mad Prophet Ludwig

More to the point, the main thrust of my post is now derailed completely.

Magical balance fairies are always anti-truth. It doesn't matter the source.

It happens sometimes when people don't want to engage a statement's main thrust. Change the subject, change the terms of debate.

224 dragonath  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:45:41pm

Pepper spray and Hamas in one thread?!? Oh, I am entertained.

225 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:45:52pm

Okay. Threadjack complete. Off to read about Knicks-Nets.

226 dragonfire1981  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:46:20pm

Video of a confrontation is pretty much inconclusive unless you have information on the events leading up to it.

For example, if I hurl insults at your mother for 15 minutes and my friend just happens to turn on the camera when you finally snap and lunge at me...who's going to be seen as the aggressor when people watch that clip?

227 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:47:00pm

I will now apply the same standards to criticizing America.
Any criticism of Obama/congress/whatever is anti-American.
No ifs, ands or buts.
9_9

228 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:47:06pm

re: #221 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Wow... what a lie. NO I have never ever claimed that all Palestinians are terrorists.

Not once not ever.

However, you are fitting the profile I was talking about quite well. Do continue to make my point.

PLL isn't some knee jerk hater (though he is fairly far to the left). But some of his friends are Palestinian, that tends to cause him to line up on the other side of this issue from you and I.

229 bratwurst  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:47:33pm

Why do I have this overwhelming feeling right now of watching a re-run on TV?

230 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:48:30pm

re: #229 bratwurst

Why do I have this overwhelming feeling right now of watching a re-run on TV?

Because it's the Christmas season, which means all the shows are in reruns until after the holidays.

231 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:49:00pm

re: #219 Mad Prophet Ludwig

It could just have easily been the comments made to a post by Electric infidel, or almost anytime Destro weighs in on Israel.

And yet it was Obdicut, BigPapa, and makeitstop (ironically) who left.

Your aim sucks, regardless of the merits of your points, which were lost only because your aim sucks.

232 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:49:12pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Had to tell what's going on, a bit of a scuffle.

Not hard at all to see that more than one person was pepper-sprayed.

233 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:49:53pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

and here's the video
Michigan State Police Pepper Spraying Michigan Protesters

[Embedded content]


Hard to tell what's going on, a bit of a scuffle.

Best I can tell is there's a guy trying to push himself backwards into the police line. As the cops start to push him out he gets behind and officer who starts to get pushed out with him.

234 Gus  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:49:56pm

re: #221 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Wow... what a lie. NO I have never ever claimed that all Palestinians are terrorists.

Not once not ever.

However, you are fitting the profile I was talking about quite well. Do continue to make my point.

Nope. You're wrong.

235 blueraven  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:50:21pm

re: #232 Charles Johnson

Not hard at all to see that more than one person was pepper-sprayed.

NO! only one...I read it on the internet.
/

236 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:50:43pm

re: #219 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Again, there are other people than the Palestinians in Jordan.

You also seem like the type that wants the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa removed.

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

It has been a long time since that incident, but I remember him making that accusation. Not to all Palestinians, but to my friends specifically.

237 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:51:06pm

re: #232 Charles Johnson

Not hard at all to see that more than one person was pepper-sprayed.

Yes, they use it to disperse the crowd. That's the way the stuff works.

238 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:51:30pm

Electic Infidel has an "Enemies of Free Speech" list of LGF posters on his blog.
All because they called out Pat Condell on his anti Muslim bigotry.

239 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:51:42pm

re: #231 wrenchwench

And yet it was Obdicut, BigPapa, and makeitstop (ironically) who left.

Your aim sucks, regardless of the merits of your points, which were lost only because your aim sucks.

Really? One of my aims was to show that the same ridiculous "debate tactics" of climate deniers are used by the magical balance fairy crowd with Israel. That was demonstrated by them rather clearly.

I promised I was done posting on it. Don't draw me back in.

240 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:52:35pm

re: #238 Varek Raith

He still here?

241 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:52:47pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Best I can tell is there's a guy trying to push himself backwards into the police line. As the cops start to push him out he gets behind and officer who starts to get pushed out with him.

That'll get you spray or arrested quick. Those are 'linebreaker' tactics, used to try to try to force a breech in a police line that can then be forced open widen. Pepper spray is a standard response to that.

242 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:53:07pm

Oh No Here They Come!!!!

243 Kragar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:53:13pm

Valuable WWII Gun at Police Buy-Back

Just like a scene out of "Antiques Roadshow," a woman in Hartford, Conn., turned in an old rifle to her local police station's gun buy-back, only to discover the gun was worth anywhere from $20,000 to $25,000. The woman, who wishes to remain anonymous, inherited the gun from her father who had brought it home with him from Europe as a memento from World War II.

The two officers conducting the gun buy-back, who are resident gun experts for the Hartford Police Department, informed the owner she was in possession of a Nazi Assault Rifle, the first of its kind, that dates back to 1944.

The gun is called a Sturmgewehr 44, literally meaning "storm rifle," and is the first "modern assault rifle ever made, eventually replaced by the AK 47 in 1947 by Russia, who copied the German design of the Sturmgewehr 44," Officer Lewis Crabtree, one of the two officers who discovered the gun, told ABC News.

"It's like finding the Babe Ruth of baseball cards," said Officer John Cavanna. "The rarity, it was made for such a very short period."

244 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:53:19pm

re: #239 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Really? One of my aims was to show that the same ridiculous "debate tactics" of climate deniers are used by the magical balance fairy crowd with Israel. That was demonstrated by them rather clearly.

I promised I was done posting on it. Don't draw me back in.

Don't blame me for that.

245 blueraven  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:54:20pm

re: #219 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Because I wanted what I wrote to be seen in general. Because I knew that my post's main points would be simply ignored. Because that is a point within a point.

So you hijack a thread so your post can get more attention? That is what the pages are for.

246 Kragar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:55:30pm

Kincaid: Republicans should take after the English Defence League

Cliff Kincaid of Accuracy In Media has some words of advice for the defeated GOP: follow the English Defence League. The EDL is a radical UK-based group strongly linked with violent actions and whose members terrorize Muslims and often espouse Nazism. But for Kincaid, they are a model for the Republican Party, which he fears is gradually becoming more supportive of gay rights and ignoring the increasing “persecution of social conservatives.”

247 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:56:14pm

re: #236 ProGunLiberal

Again, there are other people than the Palestinians in Jordan.

You also seem like the type that wants the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa removed.

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

It has been a long time since that incident, but I remember him making that accusation. Not to all Palestinians, but to my friends specifically.

PLL, I'll vouch for Ludwig on that last: He'd never support any harm coming to the Dome of the Rock and the Mosque of Omar. He understands their religious import and their architectural value. H's not some sort of 'talib' who would try to erase the places of another religion.

248 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:56:15pm

re: #246 Kragar

Kincaid: Republicans should take after the English Defence League

Derp de der!

249 darthstar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:56:22pm

Look, everyone...boobies!

250 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:57:11pm

re: #249 darthstar

Look, everyone...boobies!

You fucking liar!!!

251 darthstar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:57:25pm

re: #249 darthstar

Look, everyone...boobies!

Damn...a boob filter.

Image: blue-footed-boobies.jpg

252 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:57:27pm

re: #246 Kragar

Kincaid: Republicans should take after the English Defence League

Thank you, Mr. Kincaid. Please stick your head back in the mud now.

253 blueraven  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:57:27pm

re: #242 Amory Blaine

Oh No Here They Come!!!!

We're gonna need a bigger bar of soap!

254 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:57:33pm

re: #246 Kragar

Kincaid: Republicans should take after the English Defence League

Here we go. The right is starting to push violent, overtly fascist groups as models for the conservative movement. Wonderful.

255 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:58:34pm

re: #249 darthstar

Look, everyone...boobies!

Okay I hardly ever downding but you sir..........

256 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:58:44pm

re: #246 Kragar

Kincaid: Republicans should take after the English Defence League

Yes, the idea that society would turn its back on Victorian-era thinking is reason enough to become a bunch of violent thugs. Bravo, Cliff, officer-level thinking there!

///

257 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:59:05pm

re: #200 engineer cat

it's a problem in set theory: is the side of 'not taking sides' its own side?

To be fair,

I am truthfully not arguing that people take sides.

I am arguing that this is an issue that people refuse to see facts on.

The right refuses to see Arabs as people or that the majority of people really are good folks who don't mean to hurt anyone. The right says the most gruesome and depraved things about innocent people by assuming that all Muslims are inherently evil.

The left refuses to see the history or acknowledge that evil exists at all on the Palestinian side.

258 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 1:59:48pm

re: #246 Kragar

Kincaid: Republicans should take after the English Defence League

Lovely. Next he'll emulate the BNP because the Tories are too socially liberal and the National Democratic Party of Germany.

259 Kragar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:00:05pm

re: #254 Charles Johnson


From the article:


This British Conservative Party has watered down traditional conservatism to such an extent that some conservatives have formed an alternative, the English Defense League (EDL), which has spawned the British Freedom Party.

This group has been strongly attacked in the media, here and abroad, as “far-right” or worse. But I had the opportunity to meet their leaders, Kevin Carroll and Tommy Robinson, at the 9/11 conference in New York City sponsored by Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer which was designed in part to organize resistance to global Islam and safeguard our right of free speech against the advance of Sharia, or Islamic law. You can watch the speeches by Carroll and Robinson and draw your own conclusions. Carroll and Robinson want a patriotic alternative to the British Conservative Party that will promote traditional values.

260 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:00:09pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

That'll get you spray or arrested quick. Those are 'linebreaker' tactics, used to try to try to force a breech in a police line that can then be forced open widen. Pepper spray is a standard response to that.

Yeah, it looks like that section of the crowd was pushing their luck trying to force police back. Luckily it doesn't seem anyone was injured.

261 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:01:21pm

re: #244 wrenchwench

Don't blame me for that.

And yet I never said that.

I appreciate you spreading lies about me though. I also appreciate that for you this has nothing to do with the merits or truth of what I say, but rather you simply take everything I say personally as some sort of juvenile web vendetta.

Don't you have better things to do than troll me?

262 BongCrodny  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:01:31pm

Okay, gonna try to lighten up & cool down the thread a bit.

Just got one of those Nigerian banker e-mails (with a cool $320 million in "dormant accounts") with the following line:

I will be happy to work this deal out with you if you have a corporate or personal Bank Account and if you are capable to keep TOP SECRET.

My response:

Yes, I am able to keep TOP SECRET.

In fact, I threw away your e-mail just to be safe.

263 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:01:39pm

re: #259 Kragar

From the article:


This British Conservative Party has watered down traditional conservatism to such an extent that some conservatives have formed an alternative, the English Defense League (EDL), which has spawned the British Freedom Party.

This group has been strongly attacked in the media, here and abroad, as “far-right” or worse. But I had the opportunity to meet their leaders, Kevin Carroll and Tommy Robinson, at the 9/11 conference in New York City sponsored by Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer which was designed in part to organize resistance to global Islam and safeguard our right of free speech against the advance of Sharia, or Islamic law. You can watch the speeches by Carroll and Robinson and draw your own conclusions. Carroll and Robinson want a patriotic alternative to the British Conservative Party that will promote traditional values.

What's the old quote? "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"?

264 Mattand  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:01:48pm

re: #254 Charles Johnson

Here we go. The right is starting to push violent, overtly fascist groups as models for the conservative movement. Wonderful.

Are we surprised by this? I'm not. I commented the other day that Republicans/conservatives are going to start justifying things like abortion clinic bombings, given their general run toward Crazytown.

This just seems like the start of something very, very bad.

265 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:02:55pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

PLL, I'll vouch for Ludwig on that last: He'd never support any harm coming to the Dome of the Rock and the Mosque of Omar. He understands their religious import and their architectural value. H's not some sort of 'talib' who would try to erase the places of another religion.

I beg to differ.

266 Mattand  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:02:57pm

re: #263 Targetpractice

What's the old quote? "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"?

And have an elephant for a mascot.

267 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:03:48pm

re: #236 ProGunLiberal

Again, there are other people than the Palestinians in Jordan.

You also seem like the type that wants the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa removed.

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

It has been a long time since that incident, but I remember him making that accusation. Not to all Palestinians, but to my friends specifically.

1. Your accusation has now changed.

2. I really don't know what you are talking about or the context.

3. How about you look at the actual points of what was written? You really do continue to make the point and are incapable of seeing it.

268 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:04:14pm

re: #243 Kragar

Valuable WWII Gun at Police Buy-Back

Is this just terrible reporting, or is this "range master" off his rocker?

"If the gun had been in the closet loaded, any second you could hit the wrong level and discharge a fatal round," he said of the Sturmgewehr 44.

Hit the wrong level? Is he talking about harmonic resonance from his aura or what?

This German-made machine gun can fire 500 rounds in minutes, according to Cavanna, who is also a gun range master.

Any firearm can do that, given enough minutes.

269 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:04:32pm

re: #264 Mattand

Are we surprised by this? I'm not. I commented the other day that Republicans/conservatives are going to start justifying things like abortion clinic bombings, given their general run toward Crazytown.

This just seems like the start of something very, very bad.

Well, judging by the crowds that showed up to the Tea Party I look forward to elderly people with shaved head, wearing Doc Martins while sitting in lawn chairs holding misspelled signs. It should be a hoot!

270 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:04:34pm

re: #254 Charles Johnson

Here we go. The right is starting to push violent, overtly fascist groups as models for the conservative movement. Wonderful.

Yes... this is repulsive and after a decade of lies in a bubble feeding on their worst fears, wholly expected.

271 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:04:35pm

re: #263 Targetpractice

What's the old quote? "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"?

Sinclair Lewis or Upton Sinclair. Forget who. I always get the two mixed up. Damned pre WWII lefties and their Sinclairs.

272 freetoken  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:05:20pm

re: #254 Charles Johnson

Here we go. The right is starting to push violent, overtly fascist groups as models for the conservative movement. Wonderful.

And he's blaming teh ghey for the need to go so extreme.

Why do I keep associating the "right wing" with sexual hang-ups? Is it just me, or is there a pattern here?

273 allegro  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:05:59pm

Here we go. A Ludwig "it's all about meeeee" thread.

Later, y'all...

274 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:06:39pm

I like eclairs. Probably too much.

275 Kragar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:06:53pm

re: #268 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Is this just terrible reporting, or is this "range master" off his rocker?

"If the gun had been in the closet loaded, any second you could hit the wrong level and discharge a fatal round," he said of the Sturmgewehr 44.

Hit the wrong level? Is he talking about harmonic resonance from his aura or what?

Any firearm can do that, given enough minutes.

I'm thinking its a shitty reporter who doesn't understand the material and didn't confirm what he took down.

276 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:06:54pm

re: #265 CuriousLurker

I beg to differ.

His post was deleted so i can't see what he said.

277 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:06:55pm

re: #272 freetoken

And he's blaming teh ghey for the need to go so extreme.

Why do I keep associating the "right wing" with sexual hang-ups? Is it just me, or is there a pattern here?

Because they're sexually repressed. I think the reason why the British conservatives aren't as puritanical as ours is because their conservatives don't flip out about fucking.

278 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:07:47pm

re: #268 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Is this just terrible reporting, or is this "range master" off his rocker?

"If the gun had been in the closet loaded, any second you could hit the wrong level and discharge a fatal round," he said of the Sturmgewehr 44.

Hit the wrong level? Is he talking about harmonic resonance from his aura or what?

Any firearm can do that, given enough minutes.

Ki.

279 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:08:48pm

re: #276 Dark_Falcon

His post was deleted so i can't see what he said.

You can judge by people's reactions, and you know damned well that had to be pretty bad for Charles to delete it.

280 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:10:50pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

PLL, I'll vouch for Ludwig on that last: He'd never support any harm coming to the Dome of the Rock and the Mosque of Omar. He understands their religious import and their architectural value. H's not some sort of 'talib' who would try to erase the places of another religion.

I'm opening another can of worms here, but I'll speak for myself on the Temple Mount.

It isn't theirs.

If part of peace means keeping those structures standing on our holiest site, then I am for peace. Haters please re-read that before anything else. I see letting those mosques stand as the price of a peace that has never come about, and despite the horrible cultural blow it signifies, I see peace as more important.

However, in a better world people would not pretend that it is ok to build their stuff on other's holiest sites and deny the history at the same time. I don't give a damn about the architecture or the significance to the people who squat on the Temple mount - because it isn't theirs and their culture is not more important than mine.

281 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:11:18pm

re: #279 CuriousLurker

You can judge by people's reactions, and you know damned well that had to be pretty bad for Charles to delete it.

I know, but I also know Ludwig. He's temperamental, but never bigoted. I can see him saying something in anger that he didn't truly mean. Lord knows that I've done that before myself.

282 Kragar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:12:06pm

MacArthur: Obama is 'Evidence of God's Judgment'

You hear that Conservatives? Your votes mean nothing. Its all in God's hand. You should stay home and just prayer more.

283 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:14:31pm

re: #282 Kragar

MacArthur: Obama is 'Evidence of God's Judgment'

You hear that Conservatives? Your votes mean nothing. Its all in God's hand. You should stay home and just prayer more.

I demand to see his voter registration card and valid ID!

284 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:14:44pm

re: #280 Mad Prophet Ludwig

I'm opening another can of worms here, but I'll speak for myself on the Temple Mount.

It isn't theirs.

If part of peace means keeping those structures standing on our holiest site, then I am for peace. Haters please re-read that before anything else. I see letting those mosques stand as the price of a peace that has never come about, and despite the horrible cultural blow it signifies, I see peace as more important.

However, in a better world people would not pretend that it is ok to build their stuff on other's holiest sites and deny the history at the same time. I don't give a damn about the architecture or the significance to the people who squat on the Temple mount - because it isn't theirs and their culture is not more important than mine.

I've got to admit that I have problem with that. Even if its 'not theirs', the buildings are more than 1000 years old and of great historical import. Demolishing such structures seriously bothers me. Chicaho's not in the habit of knocking down grand old buildings, and Jerusalem shouldn't be either.

That's just one man's opinion, though.

285 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:15:54pm

re: #271 HappyWarrior

Sinclair Lewis or Upton Sinclair. Forget who. I always get the two mixed up. Damned pre WWII lefties and their Sinclairs.

Sinclair Lewis, from "It Can't Happen Here" (1936)

A candidate espousing retrogressive "traditional family values" gets the backing of self-interested wealthy donors, religious groups, and a firebrand radio personality, and eventually gets elected president on a weird pseudo-populist/corporatist platform. Once elected, the "Corpo" government institutes military tribunals in lieu of civilian trials and other fun things that absolutely could never, ever happen here. It all ends in civil war.

286 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:16:25pm

re: #282 Kragar

MacArthur: Obama is 'Evidence of God's Judgment'

You hear that Conservatives? Your votes mean nothing. Its all in God's hand. You should stay home and just prayer more.

God's judgement is why MacArthur has his head up his ass permanently. It's a serious condition. He should have it looked at. Really, these freaks act like Obama's the worst thing ever to happen to this country. Fuckers have no perspective because they think gays marrying or supporting gays marrying is the worst thing that could happen. Fucking idiots.

287 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:16:26pm

re: #282 Kragar

MacArthur: Obama is 'Evidence of God's Judgment'

You hear that Conservatives? Your votes mean nothing. Its all in God's hand. You should stay home and just prayer more.

"I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you."

288 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:16:48pm

re: #257 Mad Prophet Ludwig

To be fair,

I am truthfully not arguing that people take sides.

I am arguing that this is an issue that people refuse to see facts on.

The right refuses to see Arabs as people or that the majority of people really are good folks who don't mean to hurt anyone. The right says the most gruesome and depraved things about innocent people by assuming that all Muslims are inherently evil.

The left refuses to see the history or acknowledge that evil exists at all on the Palestinian side.

i suspect that nearly all of the flack you are getting has to do with your saying "the right" does this and "the left" does that

289 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:17:13pm

re: #285 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Sinclair Lewis, from "It Can't Happen Here" (1936)

A candidate espousing retrogressive "traditional family values" gets the backing of self-interested wealthy donors, religious groups, and a firebrand radio personality eventually gets elected on a weird pseudo-populist/corporatist platform. Once elected, the "Corpo" government institutes military tribunals in lieu of civilian trials and other fun things that absolutely could never, ever happen here. It all ends in civil war.

Thanks.

290 Cinnabar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:18:26pm

re: #282 Kragar

MacArthur: Obama is 'Evidence of God's Judgment'

No way. He's evidence of God's mercy -- we haven't done anything good enough to deserve him.

291 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:19:29pm

re: #287 Targetpractice

"I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you."

Genghis Khan said that.

292 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:20:39pm

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

Genghis Khan said that.

Indeed he did.

293 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:20:51pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

I know, but I also know Ludwig. He's temperamental, but never bigoted. I can see him saying something in anger that he didn't truly mean. Lord knows that I've done that before myself.

I disagree with your assessment. I guess you didn't read the whole thread from that night. As a matter of fact, the ranting went on for a couple of days, so it wasn't as if he just temporarily lost his cool.

294 freetoken  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:21:37pm

re: #271 HappyWarrior

Sinclair Lewis or Upton Sinclair. Forget who. I always get the two mixed up. Damned pre WWII lefties and their Sinclairs.

Don't forget the other famous American Sinclair.

295 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:23:24pm

re: #293 CuriousLurker

I disagree with your assessment. I guess you didn't read the whole thread from that night. As a matter of fact, the ranting went on for a couple of days, so it wasn't as if he just temporarily lost his cool.

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

I've got to admit that I have problem with that. Even if its 'not theirs', the buildings are more than 1000 years old and of great historical import. Demolishing such structures seriously bothers me. Chicaho's not in the habit of knocking down grand old buildings, and Jerusalem shouldn't be either.

That's just one man's opinion, though.

296 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:24:34pm

re: #294 freetoken

Don't forget the other famous American Sinclair.

And Jeffrey Sinclair.

RIP, Michael O'Hare.

297 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:24:53pm

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

Genghis Khan said that.

Or maybe it was Bane?
/

298 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:26:43pm

re: #296 Varek Raith

And Jeffrey Sinclair.

RIP, Michael O'Hare.

Nah, he's not dead. He went back in time to become Valen, the Minbari not of Minbar.

/

299 Mattand  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:27:11pm

re: #280 Mad Prophet Ludwig

I'm opening another can of worms here, but I'll speak for myself on the Temple Mount.

It isn't theirs.

If part of peace means keeping those structures standing on our holiest site, then I am for peace. Haters please re-read that before anything else. I see letting those mosques stand as the price of a peace that has never come about, and despite the horrible cultural blow it signifies, I see peace as more important.

However, in a better world people would not pretend that it is ok to build their stuff on other's holiest sites and deny the history at the same time. I don't give a damn about the architecture or the significance to the people who squat on the Temple mount - because it isn't theirs and their culture is not more important than mine.

Bill Maher is right: religion is going to be the cause of our ultimate destruction.

300 freetoken  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:30:00pm

Scalia tries the Limbaugh Defense:

Scalia defends past comments some see as anti-gay

Past dissents meant to be 'reduction to the absurd,' Scalia says

301 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:30:40pm

re: #280 Mad Prophet Ludwig

I'm opening another can of worms here, but I'll speak for myself on the Temple Mount.

It isn't theirs.

If part of peace means keeping those structures standing on our holiest site, then I am for peace. Haters please re-read that before anything else. I see letting those mosques stand as the price of a peace that has never come about, and despite the horrible cultural blow it signifies, I see peace as more important.

However, in a better world people would not pretend that it is ok to build their stuff on other's holiest sites and deny the history at the same time. I don't give a damn about the architecture or the significance to the people who squat on the Temple mount - because it isn't theirs and their culture is not more important than mine.

STOP IT RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

The mosques are there to stay until Moshiach comes and everyone will receive what rightfully belongs to them, which G-D will decide.

Until which time KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF.

It's my birthday tonight.

302 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:32:22pm

re: #301 Vicious Babushka

Happy Birthday!

303 Cinnabar  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:32:44pm

re: #301 Vicious Babushka

It's my birthday tonight.

I wish you a birthday of good memories and no rehashed arguments.

304 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:33:32pm

re: #297 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Or maybe it was Bane?
/

He didn't say that, though his "I am Gotham's Reckoning." is functionally the same.

305 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:33:58pm

re: #303 Cinnabar

I wish you a birthday of good memories and no rehashed arguments.

Quite Concur.

306 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:34:35pm

re: #301 Vicious Babushka

Happy Birthday. Whatcha' gettin?

307 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:34:51pm

re: #293 CuriousLurker

I disagree with your assessment. I guess you didn't read the whole thread from that night. As a matter of fact, the ranting went on for a couple of days, so it wasn't as if he just temporarily lost his cool.

CL and DF

I was annoyed at a whole lot of things, but CL, calling what I wrote to be rant without looking at the issues behind them is interesting. It shows a remarkable amount of the worst cultural insensitivity.

You have recently posted about the significance of Hanukkah.

Yet you seem to have missed the entire point of the holiday. Let me lay it out for you.

Israel had been conquered by the Babylonians. The Persians conquered them and allowed my ancestors to rebuild the Temple - which stood until Roman Times.

Alexander conquered Persia and divided his empire.

Antiochous, a descendant of one of Alexanders generals came to power and tried to wipe out Judaism. He profaned the Temple and turned it into an alien pagan temple. The Temple was the center of Jewish culture. It is on Mount Moriah. It is where tradition holds the Akedah happened. It is more central a symbol of Judaism than the liberty bell is of America or Parliament and Big Ben is of Britain. The only thing in the modern world with close to the Temple's cultural significance to anyone else is actually Mecca.

My ancestors fought back and won. The miracle of the menorah happened when the temple was cleansed and rededicated.

So CL,

It isn't yours. It still isn't yours. It never will be, You and no Muslim and no gentile has any right to it. However, as the price of peace, it is worth allowing the mosques to remain.

None the less, Hanukkah, which you have written glowingly about, was all about taking the Temple back.

308 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:36:19pm

re: #301 Vicious Babushka

i second the motion

i don't like it when people argue - it interferes with my retreat from reality

309 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:36:29pm

re: #301 Vicious Babushka

It's my birthday tonight.

How does it feel to finally reach 30?

310 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:37:27pm

re: #301 Vicious Babushka

STOP IT RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

The mosques are there to stay until Moshiach comes and everyone will receive what rightfully belongs to them, which G-D will decide.

Until which time KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF.

It's my birthday tonight.

VB happy birthday.

Also that is your take on it. Others have argued that we bring moshiach by rebuilding the Temple.

I am not arguing any of that. Just read my words and not what you read into them.

That was the point of:

If part of peace means keeping those structures standing on our holiest site, then I am for peace. Haters please re-read that before anything else. I see letting those mosques stand as the price of a peace that has never come about, and despite the horrible cultural blow it signifies, I see peace as more important.

311 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:37:37pm

re: #309 A Man for all Seasons

Now that's provocative!

312 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:38:02pm

re: #301 Vicious Babushka

STOP IT RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

The mosques are there to stay until Moshiach comes and everyone will receive what rightfully belongs to them, which G-D will decide.

Until which time KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF.

It's my birthday tonight.

And there you have it. No one but a fool would mess with a fierce grandmother.

Happy Birthday, Alouette.

313 freetoken  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:40:24pm

So, will abortion now be approved?


Homosexuality May Start in the Womb

314 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:41:48pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

I know, but I also know Ludwig. He's temperamental, but never bigoted. I can see him saying something in anger that he didn't truly mean. Lord knows that I've done that before myself.

re: #293 CuriousLurker

I disagree with your assessment. I guess you didn't read the whole thread from that night. As a matter of fact, the ranting went on for a couple of days, so it wasn't as if he just temporarily lost his cool.

For the record, lest you think I was exaggerating, here's LVQ still carrying on about the incident six days after it happened. He even brought up a bunch of his other things he'd said in the past that he felt he was unfairly criticized for, his defense being that. "Someone should speak the truth sometimes."

I guess that would be because his truth is The Truth™. //

315 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:42:19pm

re: #306 Decatur Deb

Happy Birthday. Whatcha' gettin?

Zedushka bought me a tub of ice cream.

316 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:44:14pm

re: #314 CuriousLurker

re: #293 CuriousLurker

For the record, lest you think I was exaggerating, here's LVQ still carrying on about the incident six days after it happened. He even brought up a bunch of his other things he'd said in the past that he felt he was unfairly criticized for, his defense being that. "Someone should speak the truth sometimes."

I guess that would be because his truth is The Truth™. //

So you don't think that passive aggressively talking about me but refusing to address me isn't an insult.

Interesting.

It still isn't yours. It never was. It never will be, and those are not just my facts.

317 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:45:22pm

re: #315 Vicious Babushka

Zedushka bought me a tub of ice cream.

Heh. Our Publix market has started carrying Fox's U-bet syrup--in the Hebrew section of the International Foods.

318 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:47:21pm

re: #310 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Also that is your take on it. Others have argued that we bring moshiach by rebuilding the Temple.

The Rebbe said we do that by being kind and compassionate to others, helping the poor and destitute, learning Torah, keeping Sabbath and kosher, loving one's fellow human being. This is how we "repair the world" not knocking down structures.

319 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:48:36pm

re: #307 Mad Prophet Ludwig

CL and DF

I was annoyed at a whole lot of things, but CL, calling what I wrote to be rant without looking at the issues behind them is interesting. It shows a remarkable amount of the worst cultural insensitivity.

You have recently posted about the significance of Hanukkah.

Yet you seem to have missed the entire point of the holiday. Let me lay it out for you.

Israel had been conquered by the Babylonians. The Persians conquered them and allowed my ancestors to rebuild the Temple - which stood until Roman Times.

Alexander conquered Persia and divided his empire.

Antiochous, a descendant of one of Alexanders generals came to power and tried to wipe out Judaism. He profaned the Temple and turned it into an alien pagan temple. The Temple was the center of Jewish culture. It is on Mount Moriah. It is where tradition holds the Akedah happened. It is more central a symbol of Judaism than the liberty bell is of America or Parliament and Big Ben is of Britain. The only thing in the modern world with close to the Temple's cultural significance to anyone else is actually Mecca.

My ancestors fought back and won. The miracle of the menorah happened when the temple was cleansed and rededicated.

So CL,

It isn't yours. It still isn't yours. It never will be, You and no Muslim and no gentile has any right to it. However, as the price of peace, it is worth allowing the mosques to remain.

None the less, Hanukkah, which you have written glowingly about, was all about taking the Temple back.

Yeah that's me, culturally insensitive.

I've done quite a lot of reading about Judaism & Jewish history over the past few years and I'm well aware of the Temples' significance, and I'm well aware of what's implied when some people talk about building the Third Tdmple. If I thought I could have a rational conversation with you about it I would, but I know that's not possible,so I'm going to walk away now.

320 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:49:24pm

re: #318 Vicious Babushka

Better viewpoint then his. He seems a bit Kahanist.

And to Ludwig, I want to point that I am rather equal opportunity on this. Perhaps he hasn't seen me and Destro go at it.

321 TedStriker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:49:58pm

re: #263 Targetpractice

What's the old quote? "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"?

"Onward, Christian Soldiers", right?

322 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:50:39pm

re: #307 Mad Prophet Ludwig

Ludwig, I hear you, but its just that the very idea of deliberately destroying something that old and important, and frankly beautiful as well strikes me as rotten. I know you're saying you would as a price of peace, but I can't help but feel that you shouldn't at all.

"Beauty is Truth and Truth, Beauty." - John Keats

323 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:52:39pm

re: #316 Mad Prophet Ludwig

So you don't think that passive aggressively talking about me but refusing to address me isn't an insult.

Interesting.

It still isn't yours. It never was. It never will be, and those are not just my facts.

I have no need to be passive aggressive with you or anyone else, I was making a point to D_L. I've always spoken my mind here clearly and honestly and I'll continue to do regardless of how you try to characterize me.

324 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:53:19pm

re: #318 Vicious Babushka

The Rebbe said we do that by being kind and compassionate to others, helping the poor and destitute, learning Torah, keeping Sabbath and kosher, loving one's fellow human being. This is how we "repair the world" not knocking down structures.

i heard that there are two theories of when the moshiach will come: 1) when we all act as above, and 2) when everything is ganz ferblunget and ferkakt

325 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:54:39pm

CL ain't passive aggressive.
She'll won't hesitate to tell ya to bugger off if you deserve it.
;)
*Ducks*

326 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:57:02pm

re: #324 engineer cat

i heard that there are two theories of when the moshiach will come: 1) when we all act as above, and 2) when everything is ganz ferblunget and ferkakt

Translation for those who do not understand Yiddish:

Ganz ferblundget un ferkakt=When everything has gone to shit

327 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 2:58:51pm

re: #301 Vicious Babushka

STOP IT RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

The mosques are there to stay until Moshiach comes and everyone will receive what rightfully belongs to them, which G-D will decide.

Until which time KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF.

It's my birthday tonight.

Oh my gosh! HAPPY BIRTHDAAAAY! May you have many more. ;)

328 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 3:04:05pm

re: #319 CuriousLurker

Yeah that's me, culturally insensitive.

I've done quite a lot of reading about Judaism & Jewish history over the past few years and I'm well aware of the Temples' significance, and I'm well aware of what's implied when some people talk about building the Third Tdmple. If I thought I could have a rational conversation with you about it I would, but I know that's not possible,so I'm going to walk away now.

Because actually addressing what I have said is not something you can do... You see culturally sensitive would be to perhaps acknowledge that it is a giant concession to peace that the mosques stand rather than to assume they are yours by right. If we were like the Arabs in the region, we would have blown them up just like the Arabs destroyed synagogues. Culturally sensitive would be to think that maybe just maybe the Temple is a big deal to someone else's culture.

But none of that would fit your narrative.

As I said in the very first post:

Such details are not relevant.

The left is nothing if not a hypocrite on Israel and just as blind to the truths of the situation as the right is on issues of climate, women's rights and the age of the universe.

They are just as blind.

They are just as unwilling to listen to reason.

Just like righties, they will glance past these facts and move to other talking points.

You know like calling me names and refusing to address these basic and obvious facts.

It still is not yours, and thank you for making the main point yet again so clearly.

329 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 3:14:36pm

re: #318 Vicious Babushka

And yet I wrote that they should stay standing if it brings peace. VB... you are killing me. Would the Rebbe deny what Hannukah was about or the significance of the Akeda? Do you think he would ignore his own essays on the miracles of the Temple and their cabalistic significance? You know that of course he would not.

I do not know if you are writing from cowardice or a refusal to read what was written by me, but how about you knock it off.

re: #320 ProGunLiberal

Really... You clearly don't know what Kahanist means.

Now, again the main point. Refusal to acknowledge the facts.

You have yet to acknowledge or refute the Palestinians do seem to have a deeply rooted (and democratically voted for) terrorist issue that makes making peace impossible, or that on the recent discussion that maybe the center of Jewish culture might be important to Jews and that it is perhaps a big concession to leave the mosques up.

Why is this?

Because such facts do not fit your narrative and you are just as blind on the issue of Israel as winguts are on climate, the age of the universe and women's rights.

330 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 3:17:13pm

re: #328 Mad Prophet Ludwig

If it makes you feel better to think I won't have a discussion with you out of fear that I'm not up to the task, then by all means go ahead and believe that.

If you can point out where I've mad the claim that the mosques are "mine" by right, please do. (Hint, you won't be able to.) As a matter of fact, I can prove your dishonesty with your own words:

For instance: the statement that the Temple is Jewish.

That is a statement of fact as true as 2+2=4. Unfortunately, only Alouette could say that with me - until CL, the one you were all defending supposedly, and to her great credit, said it in her open letter. I have no beef with CL.

Suddenly the Temple was Jewish again.

What a short memory you have. Or perhaps it's just selective.

My narrative? What, pray tell, is my narrative? Describe it to me, with supporting links, please. Or are you making assumptions about my narrative? If so, based on what?

331 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 3:23:02pm

re: #330 CuriousLurker

No my memory is not selective at all.

I remember your very shifting narratives on this issue.

I mean really, why bother, if you agree that the Temple is Jewish and it is a huge concession to peace to leave the mosques standing, to break your silence to write snark in reference to that post right here and in this very thread?

Seriously...

Do you agree with that idea or was it worth snarking over?

Is it just my truth, or is it actually true?

Which is it? I am at the point now where playing games has gotten annoying.

332 CuriousLurker  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 3:38:25pm

re: #331 Mad Prophet Ludwig

No my memory is not selective at all.

I remember your very shifting narratives on this issue.

I mean really, why bother, if you agree that the Temple is Jewish and it is a huge concession to peace to leave the mosques standing, to break your silence to write snark about me in reference to that post?

Seriously...

Do you agree with that idea or was it worth snarking over?

I answered that question long ago--why are you pretending that I haven't? Do you really think you can walk in here and just erase my history because it annoys you? (Those are rhetorical questions, BTW.)

If you're annoyed with games, then I suggest you stop playing them.

You're pivoting like a whirling dervish and moving the goalposts because you know damned well that my "narrative" is well documented and consistent, so you're not going to be able to provide proof of what you've implied.

Don't try to bully me, it won't work.

Your intellectual dishonesty is repulsive to me. It was my mistake to start acknowledging you again, so I'm going to go back to ignoring you and will keep it that way from now on.

Go ahead and knock yourself out saying whatever you feel need to say. I'm done.

333 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 3:51:08pm

re: #332 CuriousLurker

My intellectual dishonesty? Bullying?

Project much?

Remarkable.

So if you know the Temple is Jewish, why did you bother to snark at a post that said so in addition to the fact that I support letting the mosques stand as a concession to peace?

What was so onerous about that statement if you actually agree with it?

Such details are not relevant.

The left is nothing if not a hypocrite on Israel and just as blind to the truths of the situation as the right is on issues of climate, women's rights and the age of the universe.

Just like righties, they will glance past these facts and move to other talking points.

You know like calling me names and refusing to address these basic and obvious facts.

It still is not yours, and thank you for making the main point yet again so clearly.

Checkmate.

334 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 12:48:23am

re: #238 Varek Raith

Electic Infidel has an "Enemies of Free Speech" list of LGF posters on his blog.
All because they called out Pat Condell on his anti Muslim bigotry.

Care to prove this Varek? I notice you didn't link to the specific posting and I went back and checked all my posts concerning Condell and although I did disagree with some lizards, I didn't see any such list.

So, can you prove it?

335 wheat-dogghazi  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 1:25:57am

re: #288 engineer cat

i suspect that nearly all of the flack you are getting has to do with your saying "the right" does this and "the left" does that

Late to the party as usual, but I agree with engineer cat. You're not going to win any arguments speaking of these mythic entities "The Left" and "The Right." Some of us are on the left (like me) but are fully aware that neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis have the high moral ground. If you're going to play the Magical Balance Fairy, you have to ready to admit that the leaders of the two sides seem to be doing everything in their power to prevent a peaceful settlement.

I am reasonably sure that the "regular folks" would just as soon all this fighting, bombing, shelling, and hating bullshit would just stop, so they can get on with their lives. Unfortunately, they picked the wrong leaders to make it happen.

Also, saying "this spot belongs to us, coz we got here first!" does not help matters either. The world and history doesn't work like that. If it did, all us white folks would have had to pack up and go home about 350 years ago.

336 CuriousLurker  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 9:16:16am

re: #334 Eclectic Infidel

Care to prove this Varek? I notice you didn't link to the specific posting and I went back and checked all my posts concerning Condell and although I did disagree with some lizards, I didn't see any such list.

So, can you prove it?

Proof? Here you go.

Since you've inserted yourself into this by updinging LVQ and downdinging me, I can only assume that it's because you agree with his unsupported attempts to imply that I'm anti-Israel or anti-Semitic.

Of course, neither of you ever come out and actually say it, it's always innuendo about my supposedly "shifting narrative" or claims that I'm disingenuous.

Let's talk about being disingenuous, shall we?

You took the cowardly route and posted that ridiculous Traitors to Free Speech entry on your blog rather than facing your opponents here, didn't you? Oh wait, what's that? Charles can't prove it's your blog? Maybe not, but it's a bit odd that one of the tags for it is "Aminah", isn't it? I suppose it's just coincidence that it happens to be about one of your LGF Pages and that the owner of the blog, Cushman Freckle, also happens to be a contributor to Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers.

Speaking of Pro-Israel Bay Bloggers & coincidence, I came across a rather interesting post there as well. It was about Rachel Corrie. As a matter of fact, it was called A Tribute to Rachel Corrie. There was this rather revealing comment on it:

Anonymous said...
I posted Shattan's article at Little Green Footballs and the Young Turks there shat in their pants with rage. It was amusing.
September 13, 2012 12:48 AM

What a coincidence—that's the exact same article you yourself posted here at LGF! Seems someone takes a certain smug pleasure in shit-stirring here.

I commented on the Corrie Page (beginning at #8) in response to SFZ, which you clearly didn't like. In fact, even though you'd validated my points in your #9, you nonetheless chose to accuse me of insincerity in your #11. I laughed it off by making a sarcastic comment about "taqiyyah" (#14), however when challenged by Obdicut to prove your assertion by making an argument in support of your case (#34), you declined (#39) just as LVQ does.

If you or anyone else has proof of my supposed lack of sincerity, then bring it—either put it on the table right here & now in the bright light for everyone to see, or stop with the cheap innuendo and cowardly, unsupported accusations.

Oh, and about that offer you made that I mentioned in my #14 of your Corrie Page? Let's put that on the table too while we're at it:

After having emailed me privately a couple of times (in which you asked questions related to Islam, and all of which I gladly took time out of my day to answer in depth), in July of 2011 you suddenly asked me to participate as a guest blogger on a now defunct blog you used to have. With much politeness and citing various personal reasons, I asked you to let me think about it for a while. I ended up declining and you seemed to be okay with that. Yet here at LGF you seem to regard me with hostility & suspicion. Very strange, that.

There's some insincerity going on here alright, but it's not coming from me.

337 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 9:42:07am

re: #336 CuriousLurker

Somebody seems to be earning himself a ticket to one of DF's barbecues.

338 CuriousLurker  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 9:49:49am

re: #337 wrenchwench

Somebody seems to be earning himself a ticket to one of DF's barbecues.

Yeah, I may have started a shit-storm that Charles will have to end up cleaning up (sorry, Charles), but I'm fucking sick & tired of people playing mind games around here, and then turning around and pointing at me as the guilty party.

339 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 10:17:20am

re: #338 CuriousLurker

Yeah, I may have started a shit-storm that Charles will have to end up cleaning up (sorry, Charles), but I'm fucking sick & tired of people playing mind games around here, and then turning around and pointing at me as the guilty party.

Fortunately, you're talking about an experienced shit-storm cleaner upper.

340 Jimmah  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 12:17:36pm

re: #336 CuriousLurker

Proof? Here you go.

Good catch CL.

Eclectic Infidel = lying fuckwad.

PS Eclectic Infidel - you left ice and I off that list and frankly, we feel offended. Please rectify ASAP.

341 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 12, 2012 8:20:48pm
342 Obdicut  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 8:04:55am

re: #341 Eclectic Infidel

Pat Condell is still a stupid hateful asshole and it's still dumb to link to him.

343 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 11:31:57am

re: #342 Obdicut

Pat Condell is still a stupid hateful asshole and it's still dumb to link to him.

Alas, we will have to agree to disagree.

Gus' comparison of Condell to Breivik was just over the top.

Honestly, when it comes to criticizing the UN on its bias against Israel, Condell is right on the money. It is saddening to see him compared to Breivik.

344 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Dec 13, 2012 11:33:57am

re: #340 Jimmah

Good catch CL.

Eclectic Infidel = lying fuckwad.

PS Eclectic Infidel - you left ice and I off that list and frankly, we feel offended. Please rectify ASAP.

I haven't lied about anything. It was a good catch regarding the post about the "Enemies of Truth," and I've no intention of apologizing for that. I honestly forgot about making it but all is fair on the Internet, more or less.

As for you and the wifey and War on Music? I think the lot of you entertain negative sentiments against Jews.

345 Jimmah  Fri, Dec 14, 2012 4:26:44am

re: #344 Eclectic Infidel

I haven't lied about anything. It was a good catch regarding the post about the "Enemies of Truth," and I've no intention of apologizing for that. I honestly forgot about making it but all is fair on the Internet, more or less.

As for you and the wifey and War on Music? I think the lot of you entertain negative sentiments against Jews.

Oh sweet baby jesus

Image: JagsFanWTF.gif

346 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Dec 14, 2012 6:37:10am

re: #345 Jimmah

Oh sweet baby jesus

Image: JagsFanWTF.gif

Antisemite!


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