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1 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:15:26pm

We are going to hear about creeping shariah because of this prayer from certain ugly quarters, you can count on it.

2 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:16:07pm

A Muslim boy is singing.

This religious stuff is getting to me. First the Rabbi and the beautiful sorrowful Hebrew song.

3 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:16:32pm

Beautiful

4 ElCapitanAmerica  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:16:46pm

Amazing interfaith service, what a wonderful community

5 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:16:53pm

Oh man, the Muslim benediction is going to freak conservatives the fuck out.

6 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:20:26pm

re: #5 goddamnedfrank

Of that you can be assured.

7 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:22:35pm
8 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:25:07pm

re: #7 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

The Rabbi and the Hebrew prayer was very touching. Very.

9 Khorramdin  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:25:17pm

Was there a muslim victim?

10 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:26:08pm

I'm disturbed by the picture that's starting to come out of Adam Lanza's home life. His mother was a survivalist and gun nut concerned about the collapse of civilization, and Adam was home-schooled in this environment.

11 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:26:14pm

re: #9 Khorramdin

Was there a muslim victim?

It's an interfaith service.

We don't know/care of the religion of the children. It does not matter in my mind.

I'm not religious at all, but this is touching me very much.

12 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:30:32pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I'm disturbed by the picture that's starting to come out of Adam Lanza's home life. His mother was a survivalist and gun nut concerned about the collapse of civilization, and Adam was home-schooled in this environment.

Lord only knows what sort of warped world view such a home life could create in a kid's mind.

13 dell*nix  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:32:45pm

Ofra Haza - Kaddish

14 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:32:59pm

Leave it to a politician to ruin the mood.

15 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:35:34pm

re: #5 goddamnedfrank

I stand corrected. The Freepers haven't said anything really negative about the Muslim benediction or reading from the Qur'an.

Not yet at least, but I'm somewhat surprised.

16 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:36:31pm

I hope Joe Wilson isn't there.

17 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:38:14pm

re: #2 Stanghazi

A Muslim boy is singing.

This religious stuff is getting to me. First the Rabbi and the beautiful sorrowful Hebrew song.

If you want to hear something that'll really get to you, check this out:

If they'd done that at this interfaith service, yeah, I'd be blubbering.

18 Mich-again  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:38:25pm

re: #12 Targetpractice

Lord only knows what sort of warped world view such a home life could create in a kid's mind.

And there are reports that she took her son to gun ranges to practice firing the weapons. Probably ran into quite a few whacked wingnut philosophers during those trips.

19 Mich-again  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:39:08pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I'm disturbed by the picture that's starting to come out of Adam Lanza's home life. His mother was a survivalist and gun nut concerned about the collapse of civilization, and Adam was home-schooled in this environment.

What could go wrong?

20 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:39:09pm

Last time Obama gave a speech at a vigil for victims of a mass murderer, Jim Hoft tried to push a conspiracy theory that Obama was telling the crowd when to applaud:

Wingnut Blogger Jim Hoft Mistakes Closed Caption for Applause Prompt at Tucson Memorial

I wonder what he'll come up with this time.

21 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:40:18pm

I'd be willing to make a deal with the wingnuts.

A firearms safety and handling class in every school, to go along with an actual sexual sex ed and health class.

And make all the kids go to an actual school, enough of this home schooling horseshit.

22 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:40:52pm

Loud sobbing at the names. this is brutal.

23 Kid A  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:41:46pm

Obama just interrupted a football game. The RW haters will take this to another level in three seconds. Book it.

24 TedStriker  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:42:10pm

re: #15 Dr Lizardo

I stand corrected. The Freepers haven't said anything really negative about the Muslim benediction or reading from the Qur'an.

Not yet at least, but I'm somewhat surprised.

Just give them time...they're good at being shitheads.

25 stabby  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:43:44pm

re: #21 Kragar

And make all the kids go to an actual school, enough of this home schooling horseshit.

Not gonna happen.

I used to think that home schooling was the coolest idea, because most schools are terrible places.

But then I realized that most people who home-school do it so that they can teach their kids that God hates all of their neighbors and is sending them to hell or something. And the bloom was off the lily.

I do remember one kid who got home schooled because he lived in a military town and the kids started beating him up when they found out he was gay. Seems legit in his case.

26 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:44:48pm

re: #24 TedStriker

I know, but so far they've exercised some restraint which is most unusual for them. But like you said, give them time.

27 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:46:40pm

re: #24 TedStriker

Just give them time...they're good at being shitheads.

They are not watching. They will get their talking points tomorrow from RW radio.

28 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:47:47pm

Here it comes.

29 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:49:02pm

You can see how much these kinds of speeches are weighing on him.

30 TedStriker  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:50:28pm

re: #25 stabby

Not gonna happen.

I used to think that home schooling was the coolest idea, because most schools are terrible places.

But then I realized that most people who home-school do it so that they can teach their kids that God hates all of their neighbors and is sending them to hell or something. And the bloom was off the lily.

I do remember one kid who got home schooled because he lived in a military town and the kids started beating him up when they found out he was gay. Seems legit in his case.

Pretty much, though they are exceptions (I personally know of a couple of them); however, you generally don't see or hear about many "secular" homeschoolers out there.

I wonder why that is...

31 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:51:16pm

Obama is being smart, keeping to broad outlines and not saying the word 'guns'. He's not going to give the wingnuts a point they can look sensible latching on to, forcing them to beclown themselves in attacking him.

32 ElCapitanAmerica  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:52:44pm

This is the president I voted for ... yes Mr. President we all have to change.

33 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:54:17pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

Obama is being smart, keeping to broad outlines and not saying the word 'guns'. He's not going to give the wingnuts a point they can look sensible latching on to, forcing them to beclown themselves in attacking him.

Might be that he is not so much of a political animal to feel he has to inject politics into this event. Could be that he is a human being.

34 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:54:17pm

re: #25 stabby

I knew a girl that was homeschooled until the 10th grade, as per Washington state law. Really sweet, really smart, and when she shot me down, she was so damned nice about I asked her again. We ended up friends.

But then, owing to a lack of social skills, and having been raised on an isolated religious commune, by her mid-20s she ended up a smack addict. She hooked for awhile to feed her addiction.

Finally hanged herself in 1998.

35 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:54:56pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

Apparently, some very empathetic Brazilians made a little memorial on Copacabana Beach.

The world doesn't hate us, but they may dislike our stupid, self-contradicting foreign policy. I don't like it either.

People like Jeremy Clarkson are in the minority. Look at the World-Wide Response to this.

36 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:55:54pm

Freepers are pissed off that NBC cut away from the 49ers vs. Patriots game to show Obama's speech.

Hopefully now they can get back to what is really important, a football game.

/

37 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:56:04pm

re: #30 TedStriker

Pretty much, though they are exceptions (I personally know of a couple of them); however, you generally don't see or hear about many "secular" homeschoolers out there.

I wonder why that is...

My autistic granddaughter might be homeschooled if she can't hold it together in class, or if she loses her shared aide. So far so good (4th grade), but the coming interaction with older kids will also be a threat. I'm reserving judgment on the shooter's mother because of that.

38 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:56:05pm

re: #33 Feline Fearless Leader

He still has to be careful anyways. Say one thing about guns, and hello media circus.

39 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:57:23pm

George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’

Will, however, pointed to boys in single-parent homes as a source of the problem.

“We ought to bring in Mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago,” he insisted. “Chicago is an epidemic of violence with young, largely unparented — that is, no father in the home — adolescent males. That’s a problem quite separate from this.”

The conservative columnist also worried that the massacre of 20 children at an elementary school in Connecticut would be used to “ratchet up the security of schools and elsewhere in public spaces.”

40 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:57:31pm

Well, that was tough to watch.

41 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:57:58pm

re: #33 Feline Fearless Leader

Might be that he is not so much of a political animal to feel he has to inject politics into this event. Could be that he is a human being.

Presidents are political animals by nature. They can be human as well and this one is.

42 bratwurst  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:58:21pm

Here we go:

43 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:58:51pm

re: #42 bratwurst

Here we go:

[Embedded content]

That was quick.

44 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:58:53pm

re: #39 Kragar

George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’

His parents split when he was 17. Tell George to try again.

45 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 5:59:01pm

re: #42 bratwurst

Matt Barber says yes.

46 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:00:00pm

re: #43 Targetpractice

That was quick.

Meh. So generic he probably had it written an hour ago and was just waiting to push the tweet button...

47 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:00:00pm

re: #39 Kragar

George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’

Right. The kind of homes that produced Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

Oh, wait. I see what he means...

48 Kid A  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:00:01pm

Well done, Mr. President, well done. Now let the haters go Linda Blair via The Exorcist.

49 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:00:01pm

re: #39 Kragar

George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’

He has a point about the dangers of boys who are 'lightly parented' as I've heard the term used. But that isn't a problem that can be fixed quickly. Family breakdown is a cultural problem that will take decades to solve.

50 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:01:31pm

re: #45 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Matt Barber says yes.

That was the strongest line.

51 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:01:49pm

I feel pretty safe predicting that this week, we'll see a lot of truly repugnant views expressed by the right wing noise machine.

52 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:01:53pm

re: #42 bratwurst

Here we go:

[Embedded content]

53 Khorramdin  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:03:44pm

[Link: news.blogs.cnn.com...]

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Still not a good time to talk about gun control.

54 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:04:15pm

re: #30 TedStriker

Pretty much, though they are exceptions (I personally know of a couple of them); however, you generally don't see or hear about many "secular" homeschoolers out there.

I wonder why that is...

There are quite a few leftist and secular homeschoolers in Madison, WI. They basically feel that the school curriculum is watered down and prevents their kids from Achieving. (Unfortunately it's a rather accurate feeling - I know my son's academics have gone through the roof since he got into a high quality small town public school this fall.) Usually it's the ones who are too poor for Montessori, et al.

55 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:04:58pm

Bryan Fischer has gone full blown troll tonight, good to know that he is having fun taunting liberals over the deaths of 27 people...

56 Henchman 25  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:05:05pm

re: #42 bratwurst

Here we go:

[Embedded content]

Thanks for admitting you think guns are more important than children, asswipe.

57 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:07:11pm

re: #55 watching you tiny alien kittens are

The Most Insanely Violent Cartoon Ever (Is About the Bible)

58 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:07:36pm

re: #39 Kragar

George Will: ‘Unparented’ boys from single-parent homes causing ‘epidemic of violence’

And this is what passes as a 'conservative intellectual'.

59 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:07:51pm

Samson was a violent sociopath in desperate need of incarceration.

60 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:06pm

re: #55 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Bryan Fischer has gone full blown troll tonight, good to know that he is having fun taunting liberals over the deaths of 27 people...

[Embedded content]

And I propose a federal ban on rants by Bible-thumping assholes.

61 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:08pm

Dana Loesch is already viciously attacking Obama.

62 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:25pm

re: #55 watching you tiny alien kittens are

I guess his demons are going to circulate a while longer before a Gadarene swine helps him out.

63 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:25pm

re: #58 Romantic Heretic

And this is what passes as a 'conservative intellectual'.

I know. He didn't even mention the Bible or Jesus once. What a fraud.
/

64 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:48pm

re: #61 Charles Johnson

Dana Loesch is already viciously attacking Obama.

She stopped for a while?

65 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:08:51pm

re: #58 Romantic Heretic

And this is what passes as a 'conservative intellectual'.

Will has some decent points, whereas Fischer is just being a shithead.

66 BongCrodny  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:09:05pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

Go to Hell. Go directly to Hell. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

I could have expressed the same thoughts to him in two words.

67 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:09:31pm

re: #61 Charles Johnson

Dana Loesch is already viciously attacking Obama.

TEAM TEAM TEAM!!!! 26 dead, fuck it...TEAM!!!

68 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:10:00pm

re: #66 BongCrodny

It is much more satisfying to yell at someone in the manner he did.

69 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:10:24pm

The Secret Service had to bring its guns right into this auditorium. They were discrete, as always, but we know they did. There was absolutely no choice though. Even here. Even now. Think about it.

70 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:10:41pm

re: #66 BongCrodny

I could have expressed the same thoughts to him in two words.

So could I, but I like my replies longer and cleaner.

71 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:10:45pm

re: #61 Charles Johnson

Dana Loesch is already viciously attacking Obama.

Pamela is too.

72 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:11:17pm

re: #68 ProMayaLiberal

It is much more satisfying to yell at someone in the manner he did.

Thank you, sir.

73 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:11:36pm

re: #61 Charles Johnson

Dana Loesch is already viciously attacking Obama.

Fuck her.

74 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:11:42pm

America now has 300 million firearms, a barrage of NRA-backed gun laws—and record casualties from mass killers.
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

75 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:12:47pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

That's the way I deal with Destro, after all.

76 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:13:00pm

re: #71 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

Pamela is too.

"Pam Geller attacks Barack Obama" is like "Sun comes up in the east". It's utterly predictable that she'll use a horror like Sandy Hook to spew her bile. Hate is all she seems to know.

77 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:13:20pm

re: #74 jaunte

America now has 300 million firearms, a barrage of NRA-backed gun laws—and record casualties from mass killers.
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]

And the worst part isn't even the mass shootings. It's the thousands of ones and twos, every day, that you never hear about. All so a few Americans can play pretend.

78 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:13:30pm
79 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:13:40pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

"Pam Geller attacks Barack Obama" is like "Sun comes up in the east". It's utterly predictable that she'll use a horror like Sandy Hook to spew her bile. Hate is all she seems to know.

She truly is a miserable human being. Must be miserable to be her with all that hate.

80 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:14:17pm

This is the big showdown with the kook right. Obama has to take meaningful action, there is no choice at all about that. In turn, anything meaningful he proposes will lead to an unholy outburst of caterwauling, obstruction, and hate speech from the right, and probably some violence from the fringe.

81 Kid A  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:16:54pm

I'm hanging out watchung the game with two friends that are not Obama supporters, but they are not haters, either. They were both moved by Obama's speech. Progress.

82 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:17:35pm
83 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:17:44pm

re: #78 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

DERPers gotta DERP.

OMG that feed. Please visit only occasionally.

84 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:18:07pm

re: #77 Renaissance_Man

And the worst part isn't even the mass shootings. It's the thousands of ones and twos, every day, that you never hear about. All so a few Americans can play pretend.

Like this one:

The meeting Thursday was tense between the used car salesman and his boss.
And when salesman Keith Edward Grimmett returned to work the next day, he stormed into his supervisor's office at a Mac Haik dealership in west Houston. Within seconds, police said, Grimmett pulled out a pistol and opened fire, striking Robert Kuentz in the neck.
[Link: www.chron.com...]


Charge upgraded to murder in shooting of Mac Haik dealership manager

Police initially charged Keith Edward Grimmett, 49, with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon after he allegedly opened fire at 9:30 a.m. Friday at the Mac Haik dealership in the 11700 block of the Katy Freeway. His charges were upgraded when the wounded manager, identified in court records as Robert Kuentz, died Monday at Memorial Hermann Hospital.

All you people in management out there feel safer now?

85 ElCapitanAmerica  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:18:28pm
86 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:18:49pm

re: #79 HappyWarrior

She truly is a miserable human being. Must be miserable to be her with all that hate.

I sometimes speculate to myself on whether she has some kind of monomaniacal fixation or pathological issues. The sheer level of hatred she obviously possesses is not normal by any stretch of the imagination.

87 bratwurst  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:19:31pm
88 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:19:32pm

re: #82 Gus

[Embedded content]

Our neighbors. Our fucking asshole neighbors. I almost want a gun against them, because they are terrifying.

89 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:19:56pm

re: #59 Kragar

Samson was a violent sociopath in desperate need of incarceration.

It wasn't Sampson's fault, it was that evil, conniving slut Delilah who led him astray. Don't you know that in the bible the moral of the story is always that women are evil?

///

90 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:20:10pm

re: #82 Gus

[Embedded content]

When the speech started the game moved to 2 different channels. NBCsports and CNBC. then returned after Obama finished

91 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:21:34pm

re: #89 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Samson: I'll bet you 30 robes you cannot solve my riddle, however! If you do solve the riddle, I'll not only give you the robes -- fresh from the backs of innocent corpses -- but I'll throw in absolute genocide for all your people!

Philistine 1: That doesn't sound like a fun wedding game.

Philistine 2: I've got Apples to Apples in my chariot.

Samson: I don't know ...

Philistine 1: OK, how about this? Let's do Apples to Apples first, then, if you're not having fun, we can do your Casual Massacre thing later? Cool? All right, here we go. First card says: Neighborly!

Samson: Blood-typhoon!

Philistine 2: You ... you don't say it, you just pick one of these cards in your hand to turn in and ... you're writing "blood-typhoon" on the card now, aren't you? We're playing Casual Massacre after this no matter what, aren't we?

92 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:23:55pm

re: #90 A Man for all Seasons

When the speech started the game moved to 2 different channels. NBCsports and CNBC. then returned after Obama finished

Not before 34 ni*CLAING*s on twitter.

Priorities are toast.

93 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:28:49pm
94 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:30:09pm

re: #93 Gus

[Embedded content]

That isn't smart. Attacking someone like that just pisses them off.

95 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:30:34pm
96 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:30:54pm
97 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:31:10pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

That isn't smart. Attacking someone like that just pisses them off.

So what will they do when pissed? PULL THEIR GUN?

really

98 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:32:04pm

The right wing talking point emerges:

99 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:32:14pm

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Another patriot, clutching his gun totem to scare away Mr. Death.

100 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:32:54pm

re: #95 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Here's the original.

101 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:34:16pm
102 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:35:07pm

Freep never fails:


To: SoFloFreeper

Dammit, I have money on this game. Didn’t bet the over/under on dead schoolchildren, so who cares about this crap?

8 posted on Sun 16 Dec 2012 07:54:26 PM CST by Wolfie

103 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:35:21pm

You know who the gun nuts remind me of?

Climate change deniers.

104 Petero1818  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:36:43pm

Hard to know where to start with this Freeper

To: quantim
We can’t keep mass murdering muslims off planes because they have a right to travel but banning guns is OK?

10 posted on Sun Dec 16 2012 21:32:40 GMT-0500 (EST) by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)

105 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:37:33pm

re: #103 Gus

You know who the gunnies remind me of?

Climate change deniers.

Careful with the terminology there. Gunnies are fine folks.

106 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:37:47pm

This, this is the saddest display of our country I've seen. To date.

107 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:38:24pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

Careful with the terminology there. Gunnies are fine folks.

Yeah. Fixed.

108 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:40:19pm

Oh my, bullying.

109 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:40:56pm

I jeep having to remember that the most prominent feature of the far right in this country is a total lack of empathy.

110 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:41:56pm

Neither Boehner, nor especially anybody who might replace him as Speaker, is going to allow any any new gun control legislation to reach the House floor. Feinstein's talking about reinstating the assault weapons ban, but it's simply not gonna happen.

Not saying we shouldn't talk about it or try to change public opinion for future elections, but pragmatically speaking don't get your hopes up. The Republicans know that their next big contest is 2014, when old cranks tend to come out in force and younger liberals tend to stay home. If we Democrats want a chance at changing the dynamic we need to work non-stop between now and then on our midterm game plan.

111 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:41:57pm
112 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:44:33pm

Benghazi

Day 1.
Politicized by Romney.
Day 2 through present: Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi.

Newtown

Day 1.
How dare Obama politicize this!

//Wingnut

113 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:45:44pm

re: #108 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Oh my, bullying.

Uh Ben..We also oppose ineffectual gun legislation.. but don't worry..America will get it right this time. You are on the wrong side of reason and history

114 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:46:42pm

What a foul little monster Ben Shapiro is.

115 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:48:01pm

re: #110 goddamnedfrank

Neither Boehner, nor especially anybody who might replace him as Speaker, is going to allow any any new gun control legislation to reach the House floor. Feinstein's talking about reinstating the assault weapons ban, but it's simply not gonna happen.

Not saying we shouldn't talk about it or try to change public opinion for future elections, but pragmatically speaking don't get your hopes up. The Republicans know that their next big contest is 2014, when old cranks tend to come out in force and younger liberals tend to stay home. If we Democrats want a chance at changing the dynamic we need to work non-stop between now and then on our midterm game plan.

If and only if there is a pickup of seats in the house and a 60 majority in the senate after 2014 will any significant legislation happen. With lots of difficult voter education between now and then. Trying to pass just another rehash of a bill that did no good the first time will not help. The cat is already out of the bag so what do you do to herd it the direction you want it to go rather than the way someone else does? That's what we really need to figure out.

The far right is assuming they'll pick up seats and be stronger in two years. The center & the left need to prove them wrong.

116 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:49:08pm

Oh, my quick one sentence Hobbit review: If you're not into this then you will probably be bored to tears.

117 JRCMYP  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:52:30pm

re: #30 TedStriker

Pretty much, though they are exceptions (I personally know of a couple of them); however, you generally don't see or hear about many "secular" homeschoolers out there.

I wonder why that is...

A friend of mine is a secular homeschooler in Georgia. She doesn't want her children subjected to the "you're going to hell" crap that many secular kids face in religious communities. Most people assume she's homeschooling because she's evangelical. She's not. She's into science.

The Ard School of Arts and Sciences and Bigger Messes

118 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:53:23pm

re: #115 William Barnett-Lewis

If and only if there is a pickup of seats in the house and a 60 majority in the senate after 2014 will any significant legislation happen. With lots of difficult voter education between now and then. Trying to pass just another rehash of a bill that did no go will not help. The cat is already out of the bag so what do you do to herd it the direction you want it to go rather than the way someone else does? That's what we really need to figure out.

The far right is assuming they'll pick up seats and be stronger in two years. The center & the left need to prove them wrong.

The problem is one if intensity. The people who want sensible gun legislation may be in the majority, but they lack intensity in comparison to the gun zealots. You don't necessarily need a majority to win, but you do need the most passion and so far all of the passion on this issue is on the gun nut side.

119 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:54:52pm

re: #115 William Barnett-Lewis

That's your plan. for my part I'm going look into getting conservative who are strong as well as sane into office. I'd like the far right marginalized, but my idea of how to do it differs from yours.

120 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:55:22pm

Bill Maher being an idiot.

121 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:57:15pm

re: #120 Gus

Bill Maher being an idiot.

Comedians spend a good bit of time doing that.

122 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:58:23pm

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

Comedians spend a good bit of time doing that.

Derp.

123 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:58:32pm
124 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:58:36pm

re: #118 moderatelyradicalliberal

The problem is one if intensity. The people who want sensible gun legislation may be in the majority, but they lack intensity in comparison to the gun zealots. You don't necessarily need a majority to win, but you do need the most passion and so far all of the passion on this issue is on the gun nut side.

Passion? True enough, though I might call it something else. At one of the calmer gun sites I know of, I saw this statement earlier today:

Gun permit?? A bread crumb tossed to a sleeping society awoken by the sound of complacency. "They are for your own good", and "you will understand when you see all the lives they save". Yes master, what else will you toss me from your bag of infringements?? Do you want me to roll over and play dead? I do that very well.

That's how they think.

126 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:59:17pm

re: #123 jaunte

That made me laugh. They're so weird.

127 TedStriker  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 6:59:39pm

re: #93 Gus

[Embedded content]

Piers Morgan is a twit, but I agree on that sentiment: how many people have to die in incidents like this before this country gets serious on gun ownership?

I get the feeling that too many Americans who own guns see incidents like Newtown, Clackamas, and Aurora as collateral damage, a necessary blood sacrifice to the all-holy Second Amendment, which must never be challenged or updated for the times.

128 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:00:00pm

re: #126 Gus

"Vote November 4: YOU WON'T GET A SECOND CHANCE!!!!!"

129 TedStriker  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:00:04pm

re: #94 Dark_Falcon

That isn't smart. Attacking someone like that just pisses them off.

Was Morgan wrong?

130 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:02:25pm

re: #123 jaunte

[Embedded content]

He should pull the image of Obama as Heath Ledger's Joker. The NRA didn't sponsor that image's creation, nor to my knowledge did it make use of said image.

/People shouldn't be faulted for what they did not do. I give Barack Obama that fundamental fairness as well.

131 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:03:06pm

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

You're right. Also I had a bet with myself that you would point that out.

132 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:03:08pm

Because I generally trust our elected officials of both parties to follow the stupidest course of action and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory whenever possible, I'm worried that Dems are going to spend 2013 going full-throttle on gun control and nothing else, giving the GOP a chance to take "ownership" of economic issues. Eventually the shock of Newtown will wear off, and people will get sick of hearing about gun control while their economic situation continues to suck. Then 2014 and possibly 2016 turns out exactly the same as 2010, with wingnut tea partiers being re-elected and a crop of new ones coming in.

What's the strongest argument that my concerns are unfounded? Anyone?

133 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:03:16pm

re: #129 TedStriker

Was Morgan wrong?

I cannot reply based on one line. I'd need to see the transcript.

134 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:04:25pm

re: #125 Four More Tears

“Take That N***** Off The TV, We Wanna Watch Football!”

A football game in which many if not most of the players are African American.

Racism FAIL.

135 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:04:50pm

re: #132 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Because I generally trust our elected officials of both parties to follow the stupidest course of action and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory whenever possible, I'm worried that Dems are going to spend 2013 going full-throttle on gun control and nothing else, giving the GOP a chance to take "ownership" of economic issues. Eventually the shock of Newtown will wear off, and people will get sick of hearing about gun control while their economic situation continues to suck. Then 2014 and possibly 2016 turns out exactly the same as 2010, with wingnut tea partiers being re-elected and a crop of new ones coming in.

What's the strongest argument that my concerns are unfounded? Anyone?

None. That is exactly the most likely outcome.

136 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:06:42pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

Get my Twitter message?

I should note, Biden said something similar in 1999.

137 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:06:59pm

@gundeaths is tweeting every gun death in the US "regardless of cause and without comment."

138 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:09:01pm

Awww, poor widdle @DLoesch is like so totally persecuted!

Stop hurting her feewings!

139 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:09:28pm

re: #123 jaunte

The U.N. Arms Trade Treaty has zero chance of passing, hell they wouldn't even pass the disabilities treaty. Never mind that the treaty has nothing to do with gun sales or ownership within the United States, only international sales. The wingnuts will keep spinning lies and convincing their supporters that it is a threat to the 2nd Amendment. Then when it goes down in flames they can declare victory and brag to all their mouth-breathing followers about how they "saved" the 2nd Amendment from extinction.

It's fucking sickening...

140 steve_davis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:10:44pm

re: #15 Dr Lizardo

I stand corrected. The Freepers haven't said anything really negative about the Muslim benediction or reading from the Qur'an.

Not yet at least, but I'm somewhat surprised.

Give it time, Doc. It hasn't been translated into Redneckese yet, so they're still just standing out in the middle of the road, stunned by the headlights and waiting to jump up into the car grille.

141 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:10:47pm
142 palomino  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:11:08pm

re: #119 Dark_Falcon

That's your plan. for my part I'm going look into getting conservative who are strong as well as sane into office. I'd like the far right marginalized, but my idea of how to do it differs from yours.

But even sane conservatives are owned lock, stock and barrel by the NRA.

They won't support any type of gun regulation, license, restriction, or any of the other things--regardless of how sensible and moderate--that might reduce the number of public shootings.

143 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:11:14pm

re: #136 ProMayaLiberal

Get my Twitter message?

I should note, Biden said something similar in 1999.

Replied.

144 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:12:43pm

Car dealers, you're on your own.

145 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:12:51pm

re: #139 watching you tiny alien kittens are

The U.N. Arms Trade Treaty has zero chance of passing, hell they wouldn't even pass the disabilities treaty. Never mind that the treaty has nothing to do with gun sales or ownership within the United States, only international sales. The wingnuts will keep spinning lies and convincing their supporters that it is a threat to the 2nd Amendment. Then when it goes down in flames they can declare victory and brag to all their mouth-breathing followers about how they "saved" the 2nd Amendment from extinction.

It's fucking sickening...

The Disabilities Treaty may pass someday in a less contentious time. The small arms treaty will never pass the US Senate. The people of the United States are simply too leery of the UN for it to pass.

146 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:15:28pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

I think many of the Foreign Policy guys from back then have been permanently affected by those 2 wars. Biden quite openly said something himself. Tweeting it to you.

147 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:15:33pm

re: #141 Gus

A very heartfelt statement. Very nice. Masha'Allah.

148 Interesting Times  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:15:36pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

The Disabilities Treaty may pass someday in a less contentious time when republicans regain some semblance of a soul. The small arms treaty will never pass the US Senate. The people paranoid, stupid wingnuts of the United States GOP base are simply too leery of the UN for it to pass.

Fixed.

149 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:15:51pm

[Link: twitter.com...]

150 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:17:09pm

re: #125 Four More Tears

“Take That N***** Off The TV, We Wanna Watch Football!”

Well, I guess Hello There Racists will have some new entries.

[Link: hellothereracists.tumblr.com...]

151 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:17:21pm

re: #147 Dr Lizardo

A very heartfelt statement. Very nice. Masha'Allah.

Love the melody of the song. Fantastic. He is also the figure of the young child tonight. The young man almost broke down which I admire.

152 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:17:25pm

re: #140 steve_davis

I did see on a different thread some grumbling about the fact that Muslims were present.

What small-minded imbeciles Freepers are.

153 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:18:14pm

re: #151 Gus

Yes, I noticed that as well. He was choked up.

154 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:19:56pm

Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

155 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:21:16pm

re: #154 Kragar

Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

You've explained to her that she should never ever quote anything from Blazing Saddles outside of your house right?

156 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:21:20pm

re: #154 Kragar

Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

She/He should do well in your school's talent show, though Mel Brooks is somewhat risque.

157 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:22:23pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

Have her save the routine for High School.

158 TedStriker  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:22:52pm

re: #154 Kragar

Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

re: #155 moderatelyradicalliberal

You've explained to her that she should never ever quote anything from Blazing Saddles outside of your house right?

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

She/He should do well in your school's talent show, though Mel Brooks is somewhat risque.

Obligatory:

159 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:22:55pm

re: #157 ProMayaLiberal

Have her save the routine for High School.

Probably for the best.

160 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:24:13pm

re: #154 Kragar

Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

It's twue! It's twue!

//

161 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:26:34pm

re: #160 Targetpractice

It's twue! It's twue!

//

So far, she's been fixated on "A wed wose... how womantic." and "I'm so tired."

162 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:26:40pm

re: #119 Dark_Falcon

That's your plan. for my part I'm going look into getting conservative who are strong as well as sane into office. I'd like the far right marginalized, but my idea of how to do it differs from yours.

You'll still be happily supporting bigots. You're simply never going to view marriage equality as the fundamental civil rights issue it really is.

163 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:32:31pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

I hope you can see my point of view on the Twitter Convo. What I realized last week made me quite literally ill, an accomplishment for incidents that occurred 15-21 years ago.

164 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:35:27pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

The Disabilities Treaty may pass someday in a less contentious time. The small arms treaty will never pass the US Senate. The people of the United States are simply too leery of the UN for it to pass.

They're leery of them because of lies told to them by the right wing, including the GOP in general, who are undermining America's security by doing so.

165 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:38:48pm

re: #164 Obdicut

They're leery of them because of lies told to them by the right wing, including the GOP in general, who are undermining America's security by doing so.

It's not just that. The UN is indeed often corrupt, inefficient, and anti-American. The lurid stories told about the UN are generally wrong, but there's enough real dirt there to make the UN problematic.

166 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:38:49pm

re: #154 Kragar

Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

Part of her homeschooling curriculum?

///

167 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:39:34pm

My version, fwiw:

1. All self-loading centerfire rifles join machine guns and suppressors in class 3. They could be a less restricted sub-class, 3b or something, but the basics would still be there: Application, license fee, registration, and sign off by local law enforcement. Double action centerfire semi-automatic pistols with magazines larger than 10 rounds go in the same category.
2. Auto-loading shotguns restricted to 4 rounds magazine capacity, 5 in all.
3. No new restrictions on rimfire rifles or pistols, nor on manual action shotguns, revolvers, or single shot pistols.
4. No repetition of the original AWB prohibition on bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, pistol grips, and movable stocks. These are cosmetic/replica or convenience features that do not add to a gun's suitability for mass shootings. The folding or sliding stocks might help concealability to a small extent but the 26' minimum length still applies. Let them have their scary black guns. Indeed, why shouldn't a gun look scary?

These are really fairly mild proposals, but they would still raise an absolute howl from the gun cult. Let them howl. It probably can't pass for a while but it does shift the debate and puts them in an increasingly bad debating position.

168 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:41:57pm

re: #165 Dark_Falcon

It's not just that. The UN is indeed often corrupt, inefficient, and anti-American. The lurid stories told about the UN are generally wrong, but there's enough real dirt there to make the UN problematic.

Nope. The reason for animosity towards the UN has nothing to do with the actual realities. And the UN is anti-American? We have one of the fucking seats on the security counsel and veto power. We are one of the most dominant parts of the UN. Yeah, there's a lot of countries in the world that are anti-American, and they get to be part of the UN because it's the fucking UN and that's how it works. If they weren't part of it, it wouldn't be the fucking UN.

Jesus christ. Cheerlead your 'side' if you want but stop trying to bullshit me. The GOP freaks out an lies about the UN constantly, like on this fucking treaty, and that is why people come up with these whackaloon suspicions of it. Take some responsibility for what the people you support do.

169 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:42:35pm

re: #167 Shiplord Kirel

My version, fwiw:

1. All self-loading centerfire rifles join machine guns and suppressors in class 3. They could be a less restricted sub-class, 3b or something, but the basics would still be there: Application, license fee, registration, and sign off by local law enforcement. Double action centerfire semi-automatic pistols with magazines larger than 10 rounds go in the same category.
2. Auto-loading shotguns restricted to 4 rounds magazine capacity, 5 in all.
3. No new restrictions on rimfire rifles or pistols, nor on manual action shotguns, revolvers, or single shot pistols.
4. No repetition of the original AWB prohibition on bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, pistol grips, and movable stocks. These are cosmetic/replica or convenience features that do not add to a gun's suitability for mass shootings. The folding or sliding stocks might help concealability to a small extent but the 26' minimum length still applies. Let them have their scary black guns. Indeed, why shouldn't a gun look scary?

These are really fairly mild proposals, but they would still raise an absolute howl from the gun cult. Let them howl. It probably can't pass for a while but it does shift the debate and puts them in an increasingly bad debating position.

My counter: Chief Law Enforcement Officer must be notified, but cannot veto the purchase. Transfer tax for semi-auto set at $50. Scrap rule on auto-shotguns, they aren't used in mass killings.

170 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:44:46pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

When I think Auto-Shotgun, I think this:

This Guy

Am I wrong?

171 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:45:08pm

The UN is like the Federal Government for Wingnuts. Great when they back you up invading a country or denying someone their rights, a complete failure when they try and keep you from doing it.

172 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:46:16pm

re: #170 ProMayaLiberal

When I think Auto-Shotgun, I think this:

This Guy

Am I wrong?

I misspoke. The AA-12 is capable of full-automatic. I should have said Semiauto Shotguns.

173 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:46:31pm

re: #171 Kragar

The UN is like the Federal Government for Wingnuts. Great when they back you up invading a country or denying someone their rights, a complete failure when they try and keep you from doing it.

Sounds like the judiciary too. Really if one wants to have beefs with the UN fine, but don't turn every treaty that they support into a goddamn conspiracy bullshit fest. I'm still pissed about what happened with the Disabilities Treaty.

174 BongCrodny  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:47:06pm

I'm getting a feeling that Satt's not going to mind very much that he missed the Patriots game tonight.

175 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:47:09pm

re: #167 Shiplord Kirel

Raise the ownership age for semi-automatic weapons for males to 27 years. Criminalize transfer of weapons to when said gun is allowed to be used by no one other than the registrant. Require yearly medical check-ups for licensees not limited to physical examination. Require yearly drug testing. Allow for a waiver in gun-free zones for the principals and VP.

176 TedStriker  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:48:38pm

re: #160 Targetpractice

It's twue! It's twue!

//

re: #165 Dark_Falcon

It's not just that. The UN is indeed often corrupt, inefficient, and anti-American. The lurid stories told about the UN are generally wrong, but there's enough real dirt there to make the UN problematic.

With the Birchers/conspiricists poisoning the well IRT the UN, its institutional problems (many of which also afflict our federal government) won't be addressed in any meaningful way, will it?

177 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:49:35pm

re: #175 Gus

Raise the ownership age for semi-automatic weapons for males to 27 years. Criminalize transfer of weapons to when said gun is allowed to be used by no one other than the registrant. Require yearly medical check-ups for licensees not limited to physical examination. Require yearly drug testing. Allow for a waiver in gun-free zones for the principals and VP.

Require membership in a government run "well regulated militia" to track and certify gun ownership and competency.

178 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:49:46pm

re: #175 Gus

Hell No! The first one wouldn't pass Constitutional muster, and makes no sense. And someone should be fine allowing their friend to fire off a few shots at the range. That's just for starters. Your idea is overly punitive and undoable.

179 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:49:52pm

I can't believe it, I actually got suspended by Twitter. I guess I've been too nice.

180 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:50:03pm

re: #177 Kragar

Require membership in a government run "well regulated militia" to track and certify gun ownership and competency.

Yep. Or they should always be registered for the draft. Regardless of age.

181 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:50:04pm

To be frank though, the anti-UN conspiracy nonsense on the right is proof that a remnant of the isolationism that was once very prevalent within conservatism is still there.

182 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:50:21pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

My counter: Chief Law Enforcement Officer must be notified, but cannot veto the purchase. Transfer tax for semi-auto set at $50. Scrap rule on auto-shotguns, they aren't used in mass killings.

I'd more towards this end but also require all sales to have a background check & photo ID. With the ubiquity of smart phones, an app for NICS would be a snap. Person sells with out doing a check gets a long Club Fed vacation. It doesn't necessarily have to be at an FFL but it must be done. I keep a bound book for my C&R, private gun sellers can too.

183 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:50:43pm

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

Hell No! The first one wouldn't pass Constitutional muster, and makes no sense. And someone should be fine allowing their friend to fire off a few shots at the range. That's just for starters. Your idea is overly punitive and undoable.

Heh. My idea allows waivers for gun free zones! Take that! ;)

184 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:51:27pm

re: #177 Kragar

Require membership in a government run "well regulated militia" to track and certify gun ownership and competency.

I'll meet you in the middle: Restrict center-fire self-loading rifles to active military personal, center-fire self-loading handguns to reservists.

185 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:51:43pm

re: #175 Gus

Raise the ownership age for semi-automatic weapons for males to 27 years. Criminalize transfer of weapons to when said gun is allowed to be used by no one other than the registrant. Require yearly medical check-ups for licensees not limited to physical examination. Require yearly drug testing. Allow for a waiver in gun-free zones for the principals and VP.

Outright ban semi-autos that can be easily converted to full auto.
Limit clips to no more than 5 cartridges.

186 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:52:06pm

re: #180 Gus

Yep. Or they should always be registered for the draft. Regardless of age.

This would be good. But then, I want 2 years national service for all anyway.

187 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:53:42pm

re: #185 b_sharp

Outright ban semi-autos that can be easily converted to full auto.

Already exists. If ATF determines something can be easily converted, it's NFA and can't be sold outside of those rules.

188 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:54:05pm

Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.

189 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:54:15pm

re: #185 b_sharp

Outright ban semi-autos that can be easily converted to full auto.
Limit clips to no more than 5 cartridges.

I figure. OK, you can have your semi-automatics, but here's what we're going to do. Tough love. ;)

190 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:54:32pm

re: #169 Dark_Falcon

My counter: Chief Law Enforcement Officer must be notified, but cannot veto the purchase. Transfer tax for semi-auto set at $50. Scrap rule on auto-shotguns, they aren't used in mass killings.

Good, you're at least willing to discuss it. I included the shotguns because many of the mass killers seem to bring them along even if they don't use them. They might well go there if they couldn't get the so-called assault rifles.

191 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:55:06pm

re: #188 Kragar

Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.

[Embedded content]

If I tweeted I'd ask him if that's the case why worry about laws allowing gay marrage?

192 dragonath  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:55:09pm

You know, all I'd really ask for is some way to know how someone's got 47 assault rifles and a hundred thousand dollars worth of ammunition.

I bet the NRA doesn't think that is reasonable.

193 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:55:33pm

re: #188 Kragar

Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.

[Embedded content]

Tell Bryan that all those guns didn't save Nancy Lanza's life. Let him work that one over in that empty head of his.

194 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:55:37pm

re: #188 Kragar

Just below that oily surface, he's a nihilist.

195 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:56:02pm

re: #188 Kragar

Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.

[Embedded content]

Yeah let's not make murder a crime because people are just going to do it. Really Fischer, get a new hobby and stop poisoning Twitter with your irrational bullshit.

196 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:58:00pm

re: #194 jaunte

Just below that oily surface, he's a nihilist.

And a sophist.

197 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 7:59:05pm

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

I was wondering, cause that would be a bit of a no-brainer to ban.

Ban on Full-Auto , excepting a few models under some sort of history arrangement, though they do need to be registered and tracked.

Split the remaining Guns into 2 classes.

The first is Non-Semi-Automatics & and the Old Semi-Auto Mechanisms, and the second your modern semi-automatics.

The process to get a gun of the second type should be more stringent. Also, it should have more thorough examinations for both, including a more rigorous background check for crimes and mental disorders, and interviews with people around them to vouch for them not being bugshit nuts, or being as evil as Shaitan himself.

198 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:01:33pm

re: #190 Shiplord Kirel

Good, you're at least willing to discuss it. I included the shotguns because many of the mass killers seem to bring them along even if they don't use them. They might well go there if they couldn't get the so-called assault rifles.

Most of them have the tacticool pump guns though which get's messy because aside from cosmetics they are the same as the prefered American hunting shotgun.

One other thought is that ATF would have to have a shortish time frame (48 or 72 hours) to actively disapprove a semi-auto sale. No comment = approval.

199 ReamWorks SKG  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:01:33pm

I'm sure all LGF'ers don't fall for these things, but I was surprised that a few people I know forwarded a fake statement from "Morgan Freeman" to me.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

200 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:02:49pm

re: #199 ReamWorks SKG

He's one of the new go-to guy for urban myths. I keep seeing quotes attributed to him.

201 dragonath  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:03:56pm

Just a little note here- the right wing in Canada is trying to emulate the US when it comes to guns. The current government is killing the gun registry piece by piece.

202 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:04:09pm

re: #199 ReamWorks SKG

I'm sure all LGF'ers don't fall for these things, but I was surprised that a few people I know forwarded a fake statement from "Morgan Freeman" to me.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Yeah I saw that. Kind of reminded me of that phony Draft Christopher Walken movement for president meme. Outside my status on facebook, I only really post photos I take and music I'm digging at the moment.

203 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:04:14pm

Keep posting, degenerates.

204 BongCrodny  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:04:22pm

re: #188 Kragar

Bryan Fischer believes all laws should be abolished.

CT HAD gun control laws, Lanza broke just about everyone of them. What good did those laws do?

So things might have turned out better without gun control laws?

Bryan "Wind-Up Monkey' Fischer.

205 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:06:16pm

re: #190 Shiplord Kirel

Good, you're at least willing to discuss it. I included the shotguns because many of the mass killers seem to bring them along even if they don't use them. They might well go there if they couldn't get the so-called assault rifles.

Some of those are just pump-action models, though. Semi-auto shotguns also have legitimate use in a multiple assailant home-invasion scenario.

So: Registration of semi-auto shotguns, but at the least restrictive 'Any Other Weapon' level, with transfer tax of $5. Agreement by various states to permit ownership of at least 1 AOW for home defense. A stockless Mossberg is often just the thing to deal with an armed intruder.

206 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:07:10pm

re: #192 dragonath

You know, all I'd really ask for is some way to know how someone's got 47 assault rifles and a hundred thousand dollars worth of ammunition.

I bet the NRA doesn't think that is reasonable.

Betting that somewhere along the way the 100K morphed to the ammo from the total value of guns/ammo. Even at today's prices 100k in ammo would be a storage problem, a couple tons. I don't see any real threat from an individual with many guns--it would be pretty hard to employ more than 3 or 4 in any crime. (Not valid if the guy is the arms room for a gang or nutgroup.)

207 uncah91  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:07:45pm

re: #197 ProMayaLiberal

...
The process to get a gun of the second type should be more stringent. Also, it should have more thorough examinations for both, including a more rigorous background check for crimes and mental disorders, and interviews with people around them to vouch for them not being bugshit nuts, or being as evil as Shaitan himself.

Not that I necessarily disagree, but the way the conversation has been going in this direction makes me a little leery.

For example: Do you want a local sheriff, like say Arapiao in AZ, to have the power to decide who is "trustworthy" enough to have a gun of a certain type?

Mandate the same things for everyone, like gun safety certification and limited magazine size. But leave the subjective judgements out of it, unless we are talking about genuine mental health issues as certified by a mental health professional.

208 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:08:03pm

re: #198 William Barnett-Lewis

Most of them have the tacticool pump guns though which get's messy because aside from cosmetics they are the same as the prefered American hunting shotgun.

One other thought is that ATF would have to have a shortish time frame (48 or 72 hours) to actively disapprove a semi-auto sale. No comment = approval.

Exactly. A gun should not be banned just because it looks 'scary'. The fraidy cats should instead be told to get a better grip on reality.

209 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:08:36pm

re: #198 William Barnett-Lewis

Most of them have the tacticool pump guns though which get's messy because aside from cosmetics they are the same as the prefered American hunting shotgun.

One other thought is that ATF would have to have a shortish time frame (48 or 72 hours) to actively disapprove a semi-auto sale. No comment = approval.

Well, I only called for a magazine restriction, not registration, and then only for semi-auto. It is, in truth, something of a slippery slope, a phenomenon that abounds in this kind of discussion.
It's really quite striking how many mass shooters brought shotguns but ended up not using them. I wonder if the heavy recoil is a deterrent to these often dweebish types, especially compared to a 5.56 rifle.

210 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:09:00pm
211 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:09:34pm

This afternoon I started thinking about what the classroom might have looked like. I had to quell my thoughts. The horror.

212 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:09:36pm

re: #208 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. A gun should not be banned just because it looks 'scary'. The fraidy cats should instead be told to get a better grip on reality.

Yeah. The people concerned about guns should get a grip on reality. Right.

213 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:03pm

re: #208 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. A gun should not be banned just because it looks 'scary'. The fraidy cats should instead be told to get a better grip on reality.

It not how scary it looks, it's how easily it can raise the number of dead.

214 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:23pm

re: #210 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Poor girl. I can't imagine going through something like this in my mid 20's. Don't even want to think about what it would have been like to be six and to witness such a thing.

215 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:26pm

re: #207 uncah91

For example: Do you want a local sheriff, like say Arapiao in AZ, to have the power to decide who is "trustworthy" enough to have a gun of a certain type?
.

It's bad either direction. That's why I liked DF's idea up thread that the CLEO would need to be notified and maintain a db but would have no veto power. That would remain in the hands of ATF via NICS.

216 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:32pm

re: #179 b_sharp

I can't believe it, I actually got suspended by Twitter. I guess I've been too nice.

Here you go, everything you should know about the twitter gulag and its mastermind Charles Johnson... (why does that name sound familiar?)

[Link: thetrenches.us...]

///+

217 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:38pm

re: #209 Shiplord Kirel

Well, I only called for a magazine restriction, not registration, and then only for semi-auto. It is, in truth, something of a slippery slope, a phenomenon that abounds in this kind of discussion.
It's really quite striking how many mass shooters brought shotguns but ended up not using them. I wonder if the heavy recoil is a deterrent to these often dweebish types, especially compared to a 5.56 rifle.

Shotguns are underrated as fighting weapons, mostly because they are short range weapons. Shotguns are Kings in close, but overmatched once things get out 30-40 yards or so.

218 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:10:54pm

People always ask, why are we here. We are here for other people. Our shared experiences. Our families; our friendships. The joy and sometimes sorrow of sharing our lives. Why are we here? We are here for each other.

219 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:11:29pm

re: #218 Gus

People always ask, why are we here. We are here for other people. Our shared experiences. Our families; our friendships. The joy and sometimes sorrow of sharing our lives. Why are we here? We are here for each other.

I like this. Nicely said.

220 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:11:48pm

re: #212 Four More Tears

Yeah. The people concerned about guns should get a grip on reality. Right.

62 mass killings in 30 years; not one stopped by an armed civilian.

221 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:12:13pm

re: #218 Gus

People always ask, why are we here. We are here for other people. Our shared experiences. Our families; our friendships. The joy and sometimes sorrow of sharing our lives. Why are we here? We are here for each other.

I feel all warm and fuzzy.

222 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:12:19pm

re: #219 HappyWarrior

I like this. Nicely said.

Thanks. Was thinking about it the other day while listening to Dawkins. I was in disagreement to an extent.

223 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:12:21pm

re: #212 Four More Tears

Yeah. The people concerned about guns should get a grip on reality. Right.

No, fear mongers should get a grip. Some people 'concerned about guns' are fear-mongers, others are not.

224 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:13:11pm

re: #220 jaunte

62 mass killings in 30 years; not one stopped by an armed civilian.

Yeah but only we banned no guns whatsoever. Everyone would be perfectly fine. Fucking idiots want to make this out to be a video game where you get a redo if you fail. This is real life damn it. I'm not afraid of guns. I won't lie though. I've never been that big on them.

225 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:02pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

No, fear mongers should get a grip. Some people 'concerned about guns' are fear-mongers, others are not.

Many of those fear mongers you decry come from areas that average heavy gun related homicides. Try to have a little empathy with their pov even if you disagree with it.

226 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:21pm

re: #224 HappyWarrior

The reality is, more guns = more death. Fewer guns = less death.
We get to choose what we want, if we want it enough.

227 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:34pm

re: #220 jaunte

62 mass killings in 30 years; not one stopped by an armed civilian.

Ahem...

228 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:37pm

re: #207 uncah91

I saw someone with the idea of interviews. I like that idea, but stumbled on wording.

Also, a law on ammo banning after-market magazines that are larger the maximum the gun manufacturer has their guns designed to.

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

I think Pump Shotguns could be legitimate hunting weapons though.

229 uncah91  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:14:47pm

re: #213 b_sharp

It not how scary it looks, it's how easily it can raise the number of dead.

The cosmetic restrictions in the previous assault weapons ban were frivolous and had nothing to with the function of the weapon, though.

230 allegro  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:16:26pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

No, fear mongers should get a grip. Some people 'concerned about guns' are fear-mongers, others are not.

WTF? Fear mongers? Seriously? 20 little kids and 5 of their teachers are violently murdered by a kid with deadly weapons designed to kill a whole lot of people in a very short time and you accuse those of us who are saying ENOUGH of fear mongering?

231 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:16:42pm

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

Good for them; still five people were killed and seven wounded.

232 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:17:04pm

re: #221 b_sharp

I feel all warm and fuzzy.

We are all skeletons.

233 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:17:16pm

re: #197 ProMayaLiberal

I was wondering, cause that would be a bit of a no-brainer to ban.

Ban on Full-Auto , excepting a few models under some sort of history arrangement, though they do need to be registered and tracked.

You're just describing current law here. National Firearms Act plus the 1986 Hughes Amendment.

234 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:17:22pm

re: #232 Gus

I'm feeling sadhu.

235 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:17:53pm

re: #232 Gus

We are all skeletons.

Yes we are.

236 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:19:21pm

None of this makes a bit of sense if the Supreme Court stays 5-4.

237 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:19:23pm
238 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:19:58pm

re: #234 jaunte

I'm feeling sadhu.

Secret Sanskrit messages while listening to the Beatles.

239 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:20:05pm

Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:

Coyotemas

Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.

240 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:21:04pm

Poor skeleton steps out,
Dressed up in bad blood,
Bad brains, bad thoughts, and others deeds.

Poor skeleton no doubt,
One of these days,
You can cast aside your human, be free.

When the cities run with blood,
And you drink our health in mud,
"All flesh be gone."
Save your dry and joyous shout,
For the day poor skeleton steps out.

Poor skeleton steps out,
Sprung from his life sentence,
Deep inside some muscle mask.

Poor skeleton devout,
Propping up truck drivers,
Filmstars, thieves or queens, your brave task.

When technology is rust,
And you write your book in dust,
"All flesh be gone."

Can't buy tickets from a tout,
For the day poor skeleton steps out.

Poor skeleton steps out,
Liberated from sex organs,
And brown, black, white skin.

Poor skeleton you lout,
Don't you think that we might,
like to have been asked to join in?

For good skeletons are we,
And we're dying to be free,
"All flesh be gone."

I will scream or sulk and pout,
Until my poor skeleton steps out.

Better watch out, here comes bony boy.

241 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:21:53pm

re: #217 Dark_Falcon

Shotguns are underrated as fighting weapons, mostly because they are short range weapons. Shotguns are Kings in close, but overmatched once things get out 30-40 yards or so.

You realize you're talking about guns with a certain kind of relish, right?

242 allegro  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:22:07pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:

Coyotemas

Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.

Nonsense. The coyotes have no interest in confronting humans. You do want to bring your cat in for the night, however.

243 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:22:35pm

What should I do if I see a coyote?

You can stop and watch, but do not approach it. As with any wild animal, if it feels threatened by someone coming toward it or chasing it, it may feel the need to protect itself. DO NOT FEED or attempt to feed them. Once a wild animal gets accustomed to being fed by humans there is much more likelihood that an individual will get bitten by an animal looking for food.
[Link: www.nps.gov...]

244 uncah91  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:22:36pm

re: #228 ProMayaLiberal

I saw someone with the idea of interviews. I like that idea, but stumbled on wording.

Also, a law on ammo banning after-market magazines that are larger the maximum the gun manufacturer has their guns designed to.

That would just allow manufacturers to design larger magazines. Simply lower the allowed magazine size, period. And it needs to be quite low. Modern semi autos that stagger the ammo in the clip are designed for a 15 round magazine, which is too large. If you simply ban 30 round magazines, I don't think you are really accomplishing anything.

245 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:22:47pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:

Coyotemas

Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.

Still looking for a valid reason to carry a gun I see.

246 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:23:35pm

Kill everything you're scared of.

247 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:24:16pm

re: #237 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Fairly solid argument, one that would very likely pass constitutional muster.

248 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:25:54pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

Don't fucking shoot coyotes. They rarely attack humans and they weigh about 30 lbs. There have been a grand total of 2 fatal coyote attacks ever.

And you're the one talking about scardey-cats. Jesus.

249 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:26:29pm

re: #243 jaunte

What should I do if I see a coyote?

I live in farming country where there are tens of thousands of coyotes and probably tens of thousands of human coyote encounters every year. I cannot remember hearing about an attack. Small pets have been killed, but not humans.

250 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:26:36pm

re: #246 Gus

I need a near-earth asteroid gun.

251 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:26:48pm

re: #243 jaunte

What should I do if I see a coyote?

I hear you, but near a building like that, especially one with two places to pass under its veranda (one of which is covered stairs), you could end up close to a coyote without realizing it (I know that particular spot pretty well, so I'm describing things you can't see in the photo). That photo gave me something of a fright.

252 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:01pm

re: #246 Gus

Kill everything you're scared of.

Fuck-n-eh!

253 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:14pm

re: #249 b_sharp

Rick Perry has the Texas coyotes intimidated.

254 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:15pm

re: #237 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Can't connect. Which unconstitutional bullet tax plan is this one?

255 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:28pm

America on its front lawn at midnight, scotch and revolver in hand, just blazing away into the shadows. Pale, sweaty belly glinting in the moonlight. "Coyotes, Martha!" American screams into the night. "Coyotes!"

256 Kragar  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:36pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:

Coyotemas

Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.

Might be.

Pepper spray would probably be better for them and you wouldn't risk killing someone if you're a shitty shot

257 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:27:52pm

re: #248 Obdicut

Mountain Lion and Bears I can understand.

Not coyotes, unless you have a small dog or a cat.

Or you are one of those people with a Pet Skunk, Pet Raccoon, or Pet Fennec Fox.

Yes I am talking to you, over there in the corner.

258 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:28:25pm

I run into coyotes quite frequently, day and night. They're all over the place here. Never once felt threatened or stalked. They eat rabbits.

259 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:28:43pm

re: #254 William Barnett-Lewis

It's not specific, but notes that ammunition is not mentioned in the Constitution.

260 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:28:50pm

re: #243 jaunte

I've seen about fifty coyotes in my life. Managed not to shoot any of them.

261 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:29:19pm
262 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:29:33pm

re: #249 b_sharp

I live in farming country where there are tens of thousands of coyotes and probably tens of thousands of human coyote encounters every year. I cannot remember hearing about an attack. Small pets have been killed, but not humans.

Illinois about two years back. Ontario & New Foundland have also had attacks. ISTR a young songwriter was killed in one of them. Thanks to climate change we're getting more coyote wolf hybrids and they are more likely to attack humans.

263 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:29:39pm

re: #257 ProMayaLiberal

Mountain Lion and Bears I can understand.

Not coyotes, unless you have a small dog or a cat.

Or you are one of those people with a Pet Skunk, Pet Raccoon, or Pet Fennec Fox.

Yes I am talking to you, over there in the corner.

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

I run into coyotes quite frequently, day and night. They're all over the place here. Never once felt threatened or stalked. They eat rabbits.

They are no threat whatsoever, however, to road runners.

264 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:29:52pm

re: #261 watching you tiny alien kittens are

[Embedded content]

Haha. Yes he does. Fucking baby.

265 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:30:04pm

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

I run into coyotes quite frequently, day and night. They're all over the place here. Never once felt threatened or stalked. They eat rabbits.

They'll eat bigger things if they can. Deer are properly fearful, but not terrified of them.

266 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:30:34pm

re: #259 jaunte

It's not specific, but notes that ammunition is not mentioned in the Constitution.

Ok, so if you can own a press but paper is taxed so high you can't afford it, do you still have freedom of the press?

267 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:30:39pm

re: #260 Obdicut

I've seen about fifty coyotes in my life. Managed not to shoot any of them.

Same here. I've been within 30 or 40 yards of one while standing on the side of the road. They run away if you move.

I'd be far more concerned about coydogs.

268 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:31:15pm

re: #263 Four More Tears

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

They are no threat whatsoever, however, to road runners.

Meep-meep

269 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:31:31pm

re: #266 William Barnett-Lewis

Ok, so if you can own a press but paper is taxed so high you can't afford it, do you still have freedom of the press?

My memory is hazy, but I think SCOTUS may have ruled on that point.

270 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:31:31pm

re: #265 Dark_Falcon

Do you understand that if you just shoot coyotes when you run into them, you're an asshole? And that they rarely attack humans? You don't have to generally be afraid of mammals that you outweigh by a factor of more than five.

271 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:31:33pm

re: #266 William Barnett-Lewis

Freedom of the press is about ideas, not a specific dangerous tool.

272 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:32:03pm

re: #252 b_sharp

Fuck-n-eh!

Somes of us used to think walking like a badass was all you need to do. Now? These guys are all ready for the end of the world.

273 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:32:44pm

New England is going to get the ball back again. They've almost caught up to San Fran now. Niners lead 31-24.

274 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:33:09pm

re: #167 Shiplord Kirel

My version, fwiw:

1. All self-loading centerfire rifles join machine guns and suppressors in class 3. They could be a less restricted sub-class, 3b or something, but the basics would still be there: Application, license fee, registration, and sign off by local law enforcement. Double action centerfire semi-automatic pistols with magazines larger than 10 rounds go in the same category.
2. Auto-loading shotguns restricted to 4 rounds magazine capacity, 5 in all.
3. No new restrictions on rimfire rifles or pistols, nor on manual action shotguns, revolvers, or single shot pistols.
4. No repetition of the original AWB prohibition on bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, pistol grips, and movable stocks. These are cosmetic/replica or convenience features that do not add to a gun's suitability for mass shootings. The folding or sliding stocks might help concealability to a small extent but the 26' minimum length still applies. Let them have their scary black guns. Indeed, why shouldn't a gun look scary?

These are really fairly mild proposals, but they would still raise an absolute howl from the gun cult. Let them howl. It probably can't pass for a while but it does shift the debate and puts them in an increasingly bad debating position.

I like your idea of simply moving a broad type of rifle into a pre-existing category. That would work. I would be OK with a magazine capacity restriction, and there ought to be a national buy-back on both high-cap mags and handguns in general. The magazines could go right back into the supply line for the military or national guard.

275 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:34:05pm

re: #266 William Barnett-Lewis

Ok, so if you can own a press but paper is taxed so high you can't afford it, do you still have freedom of the press?

You are arguing that a bullet tax constitutes a defacto ban on firearms?

276 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:34:05pm

re: #262 William Barnett-Lewis

Illinois about two years back. Ontario & New Foundland have also had attacks. ISTR a young songwriter was killed in one of them. Thanks to climate change we're getting more coyote wolf hybrids and they are more likely to attack humans.

Both coydogs and coywolfs have attacked humans. Newfoundland has had a couple of attacks. Alberta, Manitoba, and where I live, Saskatchewan have an over abundance of coyotes right now. A couple of years ago we were overrun with gophers, now we are overrun with coyotes.

277 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:35:47pm

re: #275 Targetpractice

You are arguing that a bullet tax constitutes a defacto ban on firearms?

Doesn't have to be but it can be. And you can be damn sure that's where the arguments will go. How much is too much tax is older than the English language.

278 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:35:56pm

re: #270 Obdicut

Do you understand that if you just shoot coyotes when you run into them, you're an asshole? And that they rarely attack humans? You don't have to generally be afraid of mammals that you outweigh by a factor of more than five.

Yes, I understand that. I might like to have a weapon in case they do attack, though. But with coyotes, I think I'd probably prefer a rattan cane myself.

279 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:36:24pm

Why do I have this almost overwhelming urge to tell some people to fuck the hell off?

280 Blizard  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:36:30pm

True Men Don't Kill Coyotes

281 dragonath  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:36:54pm

re: #240 Charles Johnson

That song used to freak me out when I was younger.

282 efuseakay  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:37:38pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

Semi-OT: Scene near Cafe Brauer, Lincoln Park Zoo:

Coyotemas

Semi-OT because I lived in Lincoln Park when I was younger and that photo was taken near where I used to live. Run into two coyotes at night, and a gun might be your best friend.

There are Coyotes in my neighborhood on the North Shore. They never come within 50 feet of me at night... especially when I'm walking my 110lb Malamute. They are skittish, and very afraid of people... and bigger K-9s. A simple whoop or holler will scare them off. We never see them for more than 5 seconds before they run off.

283 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:38:14pm

Coyote Hobbit fans.

284 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:38:30pm

re: #282 efuseakay

There are Coyotes in my neighborhood on the North Shore. They never come within 50 feet of me at night... especially when I'm walking my 110lb Malamute. They are skittish, and very afraid of people... and bigger K-9s. A simple whoop or holler will scare them off. We never see them for more than 5 seconds before they run off.

Where on the North Shore?

285 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:38:57pm

re: #277 William Barnett-Lewis

Doesn't have to be but it can be. And you can be damn sure that's where the arguments will go. How much is too much tax is older than the English language.

The would constitute a very narrow reading of "bear arms," which would probably raise the question of does the government have a duty to ensure that people have cheap access to bullets, no matter how rare? There are many very old firearms for which the rounds simply aren't made anymore and would have to be custom ordered. Should the government subsidize said orders to ensure that those weapons can be brought to bear?

286 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:39:02pm

re: #283 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Coyote Hobbit fans.

Those are the worst.

287 uncah91  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:39:25pm

re: #274 Pawn of the Oppressor

I like your idea of simply moving a broad type of rifle into a pre-existing category. That would work. I would be OK with a magazine capacity restriction, and there ought to be a national buy-back on both high-cap mags and handguns in general. The magazines could go right back into the supply line for the military or national guard.

Re-reading this list, I just realized it puts every semi-auto rifle in the same class as full auto guns. That seems pretty extreme to me.

288 dragonath  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:39:26pm

re: #262 William Barnett-Lewis

Illinois about two years back. Ontario & New Foundland have also had attacks. ISTR a young songwriter was killed in one of them. Thanks to climate change we're getting more coyote wolf hybrids and they are more likely to attack humans.

Yes, I remember that. I think that was in Nova Scotia.

289 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:39:46pm

Uh oh. Came back to the killing fields.

290 Gus  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:39:58pm

//

291 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:41:06pm

re: #289 Gus

Uh oh. Came back to the killing fields.

Do I look Cambodian to you? How is this the Killing Fields?

/Joe Pesci

292 efuseakay  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:41:19pm

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

Where on the North Shore?

By Glencoe/Northfield/Glenview etc.

We have a bigger problem with skunks... not attacking people, but spraying dogs. Sigh.

293 dragonath  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:41:21pm
294 Interesting Times  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:41:22pm

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

I hear you, but near a building like that, especially one with two places to pass under its veranda (one of which is covered stairs), you could end up close to a coyote without realizing it (I know that particular spot pretty well, so I'm describing things you can't see in the photo). That photo gave me something of a fright.

Yet you mock people who, in the aftermath of 20 children having bullets put through them, are concerned about certain types of guns.

Where's the projection gif when I need it? 9_9

295 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:41:44pm

Patriots tie it 31-31.

296 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:42:15pm

re: #288 dragonath

Yes, I remember that. I think that was in Nova Scotia.

I just checked, it was Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.

297 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:42:30pm

re: #292 efuseakay

By Glencoe/Northfield/Glenview etc.

We have a bigger problem with skunks... not attacking people, but spraying dogs. Sigh.

Skunk problems stink.

298 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:44:19pm

And the 49er's go right back on top, 38-31.

299 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:44:33pm

re: #285 Targetpractice

The would constitute a very narrow reading of "bear arms," which would probably raise the question of does the government have a duty to ensure that people have cheap access to bullets, no matter how rare? There are many very old firearms for which the rounds simply aren't made anymore and would have to be custom ordered. Should the government subsidize said orders to ensure that those weapons can be brought to bear?

For some one as near broke as me, it wouldn't take much of a tax for it to become a defacto ban on me shooting factory ammunition.

Not to mention what bits are taxed - Only factory made bullets? Then with my reloading press & bullet molds I'm no different than I am today.

The problem is, always, where do you draw the line? The current court will not draw it some want and another court will not draw it where others want.

300 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:45:04pm

re: #298 Dark_Falcon

And the 49er's go right back on top, 38-31.

Resisting urge to taunt Pat fan friends on facebook. Resisting urge.

301 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:45:30pm

re: #300 HappyWarrior

Resisting urge to taunt Pat fan friends on facebook. Resisting urge.

Resist it. This game ain't over.

302 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:46:04pm

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

Resist it. This game ain't over.

I am and the fact I don't trash talk either is playing a role here. Plus I've got nothing to back it up.

303 Interesting Times  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:47:17pm

So, what poses the bigger threat to me if I were right in front of it?

This?

...or this?

304 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:47:17pm

Sorry about the coyote diversion, folks. I'd been wanting to post that pic all day, and tried to work it into the topic. I wasn't trying to BS you guys, I really wasn't.

305 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:47:33pm

My first wife once declared war on coyotes. I think the coyotes won.

306 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:50:20pm

re: #287 uncah91

Re-reading this list, I just realized it puts every semi-auto rifle in the same class as full auto guns. That seems pretty extreme to me.

Well, that class involves a $200 tax stamp, paperwork, registration and permanent marking of the gun, storage and transport requirements, and a sign-off by your local chief LEO, in addition to the usual background check. The downside would be that some local chiefs are just plain anti-gun, period, and won't sign off on allowing otherwise qualified, law-abiding people to pass the requirements. Maybe the engraving rules could be relaxed, too, since that's a pain in the butt.

Registration doesn't really do anything preventative anyway, that's always an after-the-fact discovery, like tracking the VIN on a getaway car. It's the ownership threshold and the more thorough background vetting that would be key.

I think also that a mental health referral from an educational institution ought to disqualify you from passing the background check. In a perfect world, teenagers with mental health issues would also be on official radar somewhere, and their parents, acquaintances, and friends would be advised to have any guns thoroughly secured (or not have any at all).

This perfect world also assumes that the ones making the pass/no pass decisions are qualified, trained people with good judgment, which is a fantasy in our current political climate.

307 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:52:51pm

re: #306 Pawn of the Oppressor

...In a perfect world, teenagersRepresentatives with mental health issues would also be on official radar somewhere...

“It ensures against the tyranny of the government if they know that the biggest army is the American people, then you don’t have the tyranny
that came from King George.”
-- Rep. Louie Gohmert

308 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:54:02pm

re: #299 William Barnett-Lewis

For some one as near broke as me, it wouldn't take much of a tax for it to become a defacto ban on me shooting factory ammunition.

Not to mention what bits are taxed - Only factory made bullets? Then with my reloading press & bullet molds I'm no different than I am today.

The problem is, always, where do you draw the line? The current court will not draw it some want and another court will not draw it where others want.

I said "narrow" when really I should have said "broad," because that would be called for in order to argue that owning a gun means one should have easy access to bullets for that gun. The argument that a bullet tax would be like a tax on paper would raise the question as to whether or not freedom of the press means the common man has an explicit right to a printing press.

309 stabby  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:54:10pm

Someone explain to me why the right is so hung up on the second amendment and talking about its use to oppose the government.

I can understand people who are actually doing something illegal wanting to be armed enough to give the cops some reason to avoid a confrontation over something small. If you're a drug dealer or a pimp or a pot grower maybe you want a bunch of scary guns to shoot at the cops when they show up. So maybe I understand the non-religious Libertarians "drugs and prostitution and underage sex should be legal" crowd talking about taking on the the government. But the Republican base? Over what? I don't get it.

310 dragonath  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:54:20pm

re: #305 Shiplord Kirel

My first wife once declared war on coyotes. I think the coyotes won.

Feathers and various giblets were scattered over a large part of the backyard. The other chickens, the deceased rooster's presumed relatives, were standing around pecking at the remains, thereby affirming my already thorough contempt for their species.

lol

311 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:55:19pm
312 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 8:55:20pm

re: #309 stabby

Someone explain to me why the right is so hung up on the second amendment and talking about it's use to oppose the government.

I can understand people who are actually doing something illegal wanting to be armed enough to give the cops some reason to avoid a confrontation over something small. If you're a drug dealer or a pimp or a pot grower maybe you want a bunch of scary guns to shoot at the cops when they show up. So maybe I understand the non-religious Libertarians "drugs and prostitution and underage sex should be legal" crowd talking about taking on the the government. But the Republican base? Over what? I don't get it.

I think a lot of them have this fantasy of the federal government turning into this oppressive authoritarian regime. I dunno. What I resent though is their historical revisionism.

313 dragonath  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:00:44pm

re: #309 stabby

Someone explain to me why the right is so hung up on the second amendment and talking about it's use to oppose the government.

Because it's the only real issue they have left with the working poor. The NRA frames it as a struggle against effete liberals and violent criminals.

314 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:01:15pm

Ten updings for anyone who can name the man who shot 10 Amish schoolgirls 6 years ago. No looking it up.

At the very most we will see renewal of a weakened Assault Weapons Ban.

315 Mattand  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:04:04pm

re: #305 Shiplord Kirel

My first wife once declared war on coyotes. I think the coyotes won.

Do you write professionally? That was a riot.

316 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:04:04pm

re: #314 Decatur Deb

Ten updings for anyone who can name the man who shot 10 Amish schoolgirls 6 years ago. No looking it up.

At the very most we will see renewal of a weakened Assault Weapons Ban.

Not going to happen. Smart idea for John Boehner: Figure out some way to extend NICS to all sales of firearms at gun shows. Knock out the so-called 'gun-show loophole', which i believe could be done in a way the was not overly burdensome.

317 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:05:22pm

Read it.

318 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:06:08pm

re: #316 Dark_Falcon

Not going to happen. Smart idea for John Boehner: Figure out some way to extend NICS to all sales of firearms at gun shows. Knock out the so-called 'gun-show loophole', which i believe could be done in a way the was not overly burdensome.

Yeah. Don't want to inconvenience people or anything.

319 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:08:45pm

re: #318 Four More Tears

Yeah. Don't want to inconvenience people or anything.

Don't want to get Wayne LaPierre's feelings hurt. Sorry but I could careless about accommodating the gunowners organizations right now. When the fucking head of the NRA is repeatedly pandering to the paranoid mindset. I have no love for that organization.

320 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:10:01pm

re: #318 Four More Tears

Yeah. Don't want to inconvenience people or anything.

It's not wrong to want to keep your verification system from becoming a serious hassle. I'm not talking about compromising safety here.

321 stabby  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:10:13pm

re: #313 dragonath

Because it's the only real issue they have left with the working poor. The NRA frames it as a struggle against effete liberals and violent criminals.

Heh, it's the only issue they have left that appeals to criminals, except perhaps keeping drugs illegal and thus expensive.

322 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:11:06pm

re: #317 Four More Tears

what the fuck.

"Teach kids to hunt, you will never have to hunt your kids.”

Who are these people.

323 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:11:08pm

You know, the gun owners groups repatedly accuse gun control supporters of "not understanding their way of life." Well I would suggest that they do the same. It's very easy to be cavailer about guns when you're from an area that averages one homicide or maybe zero a year. Many of these gun control advocates come from parts of the country that have seen a lot of gun related homicides. You can disagree with them but I understand where they're coming from.

324 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:11:48pm

re: #322 Obdicut

what the fuck.

Who are these people.

The same people who believe we're free because of guns.

325 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:11:59pm

re: #317 Four More Tears

Read it.

[Embedded content]

“Guns are why we’re free in this country, and people lose sight of that when tragedies like this happen,” he said. “A gun didn’t kill all those children, a disturbed man killed all those children.”

Yes, he killed them with a gun that, in any sane world, would be restricted solely to military personnel.

326 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:13:54pm

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Yeah but a gun sure will take more lives in a quicker span than a fist or knife."

327 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:14:11pm

re: #322 Obdicut

That Mr. Flaxon POS needs be interviewed.

My style, preferably.

And then that dumbfuck at the bottom talking about "Good Ole Boys"

That dumb hick needs to go back to West Virginia.

328 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:14:27pm

re: #325 Targetpractice

Yes, he killed them with a gun that, in any sane world, would be restricted solely to military personnel.

Was it clarified that the rifle was used? Early reports said he used the handguns. (All reporting of this pretty much sucks.)

329 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:14:55pm

re: #324 HappyWarrior

We are free because 1/2 of Europe intervened, and the other half threatened to.

330 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:15:10pm

Just to clarify. I'm not anti gun but the attitude that some gun owners have about guns greatly annoys me. It's a machine designed to end lives. Can we at least be honest about that here? So, no, it's not like a car which sole purpose is transportation. A gun's purpose is to end another life whether that life is an animal or another person.

331 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:15:14pm

re: #323 HappyWarrior

You know, the gun owners groups repatedly accuse gun control supporters of "not understanding their way of life." Well I would suggest that they do the same. It's very easy to be cavailer about guns when you're from an area that averages one homicide or maybe zero a year. Many of these gun control advocates come from parts of the country that have seen a lot of gun related homicides. You can disagree with them but I understand where they're coming from.

Historically the issue has always been urban vs. rural, not left/right or Democratic/Republican. Urban folks with their situation have always wanted stronger restrictions on guns than folks who live out in the woods & fields. Population density has a profound way of shaping many facets of our nation.

332 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:15:18pm

re: #328 Decatur Deb

Was it clarified that the rifle was used? Early reports said he used the handguns. (All reporting of this pretty much sucks.)

Medical examiner said the only wounds he's seen in the bodies came from .223 rounds, 3-11 rounds apiece.

333 jaunte  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:16:10pm

re: #317 Four More Tears

Gun enthusiasts here, as elsewhere in the country, have taken to loading their targets with an explosive called Tannerite, which detonates when bullets strike it, sending shock waves afield. A mixture of ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder, Tannerite is legal in Connecticut, but safety concerns led Maryland this year to ban it.
....
“I’ve hunted for many years, but the police department was getting complaints of shooting in the morning, in the evening, and of people shooting at propane gas tanks just to see them explode,” Mr. Faxon said.

These people are obviously excited about the Constitution's loud parts.

334 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:16:39pm

re: #330 HappyWarrior

Just to clarify. I'm not anti gun but the attitude that some gun owners have about guns greatly annoys me. It's a machine designed to end lives. Can we at least be honest about that here? So, no, it's not like a car which sole purpose is transportation. A gun's purpose is to end another life whether that life is an animal or another person.

No. It's just a hobby. Like building train sets or something...

335 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:16:40pm

re: #326 HappyWarrior

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Yeah but a gun sure will take more lives in a quicker span than a fist or knife."

People with guns kill people

337 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:17:37pm

re: #331 William Barnett-Lewis

Historically the issue has always been urban vs. rural, not left/right or Democratic/Republican. Urban folks with their situation have always wanted stronger restrictions on guns than folks who live out in the woods & fields. Population density has a profound way of shaping many facets of our nation.

Yeah and I understand that. I just think some rural folks don't understand why someone from a city that averages 100+ deaths a year due to gun violence isn't going to exactly fall in love with guns. My grandfather hunted and so did my uncle. And I understand why people would want to be able to protect themselves but I don't and will never understand the disdain directed at people who don't like guns. I'm not saying all gunowners are like this for what it's worth. Just a vocal minority who seem to think that anyone who doesn't own a gun must some kind of pussy.

338 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:17:46pm

re: #330 HappyWarrior

Just to clarify. I'm not anti gun but the attitude that some gun owners have about guns greatly annoys me. It's a machine designed to end lives. Can we at least be honest about that here? So, no, it's not like a car which sole purpose is transportation. A gun's purpose is to end another life whether that life is an animal or another person.

A car is the least stupid of the comparisons I've heard. Apparently the new thing in vogue is to argue that swimming pools kill more kids a year than guns.

339 efuseakay  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:17:54pm

re: #311 Four More Tears

If only they were armed. They could have protected themselves.

340 stabby  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:19:20pm

I was looking up the Laurie Anderson's song "It's not the bullet (that kills you) it's the hole".

Unfortunately it turns out the be a very early song that's actually unlistenable.

341 BongCrodny  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:19:42pm

re: #327 ProMayaLiberal

That Mr. Flaxon POS needs be interviewed.

My style, preferably.

And then that dumbfuck at the bottom talking about "Good Ole Boys"

That dumb hick needs to go back to West Virginia.

Actually, Faxon seems like one of the voices of sanity in the debate:

Mr. Faxon, the police commission member, who is a lawyer, said he wrote the new ordinance, which would have imposed additional constraints on shooting, including limited hours, and a requirement that any target shooting range, and the firearms that would be used there, be approved by the chief of police to make sure they were safe.

342 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:21:50pm

re: #333 jaunte

From the National Shooting Sports Federation website:

NSSF Statement On Newtown Tragedy
Dec. 14, 2012

Our hearts go out to the families of the victims of this horrible tragedy in our community.

Out of respect for the families, the community and the ongoing police investigation, it would be inappropriate to comment or participate in media requests at this time.

Bunch of mealy-mouthed fucking cowards.

No, NSSF you should respond. We should be allowed to yell at you and mercilessly bash your organization for going against common sense and common safety.

They need come out and take it like adults, not the whiny, petulant teenagers they are.

343 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:24:12pm

Good night folks. It's good to see real discussion - constructive thoughts about what might be politically and legal possible within our nations context - rather than continuing the knee jerk responses to other knee jerk responses. I don't know what, if anything will come out of all of this and I do believe we have to strengthen the president's position in congress - by voting out as many radical Representatives as possible in 2014 - before any real change can happen. I pray it can, in fact, happen.

344 ProMayaLiberal  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:24:16pm

re: #341 BongCrodny

Think you are right, and think there is a typo.

Still head of the NSSF needs to be yelled at.

345 HappyWarrior  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:28:47pm

re: #344 ProMayaLiberal

Think you are right, and think there is a typo.

Still head of the NSSF needs to be yelled at.

Be nice if someone told Wayne LaPierre to fuck off too. That guy deserves a lot of shit for being responsible for provoking paranoid bullshit. Of course, he lives in a safe neighborhood and doesn't have to worry about a damn thing but he'll scare the poor bastards that make up his organization's rank and file just fine because it gets him more money.

346 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:35:52pm

re: #315 Mattand

Do you write professionally? That was a riot.

I do from to time to time, mostly science fiction but some non-fiction about aviation and military history.

347 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:39:25pm

re: #307 jaunte

“It ensures against the tyranny of the government if they know that the biggest army is the American people, then you don’t have the tyranny
that came from King George.”
-- Rep. Louie Gohmert

King George's "tyranny" was taxing the colonists and expecting them to pay up, then ignoring their pleas for representation in Parliament, then sending a few troops to quell the insurrection. Didn't turn out so well for the Redcoats, as I recall.

Gohmer(t) is missing one important point: the government usually has bigger guns.

348 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 9:53:36pm

re: #287 uncah91

Re-reading this list, I just realized it puts every semi-auto rifle in the same class as full auto guns. That seems pretty extreme to me.

Basically that's right, but I suggested creating a less restrictive sub-category. Registration and a more stringent process of owner vetting are the key requirements. I also like Dark's idea of waiving local law enforcement approval. I never have liked the idea of a local yokel, who might be three kinds of corrupt or stupid, having veto power over what is basically a federal issue. In some parts of the country, otoh, a sheriff who routinely vetoed otherwise acceptable class 3 applications would probably not be in office long.

349 stabby  Sun, Dec 16, 2012 11:03:48pm

You know, that right wing idea, that the government not having a monopoly on the use of force is a bulwark against tyranny is called a "failed state" in the rest of the world.

And it's what makes Somalia a hell hole
and what makes Southern Lebanon a hell hole run by Hezbollah and Iran where the police and army can't go
and what makes the tribal areas of Pakistan a hell hole
and what makes Afghanistan a hell hole

If the right wingers ever got their dream of having powerful militias that can hold back the government, then what we'd have is anarchy and a failed state.

350 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:33:41am

re: #154 Kragar

Good news: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

Bad News: My 9 year old can do an amazing impression of Madeline Kahn from Blazing Saddles.

I've been with thousands of men
Again and again
They promise the moon!

They're always coming and going
And going and coming
And always too soon!


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