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Right Wing Bloggers Blame Everything but Guns

Nuts about guns
Wingnuts • Views: 25,456

Roy Edroso takes a run around the right wing blogosphere to see their reaction to the Newtown massacre, and discovers that every single one of them is chanting MOAR GUNZ! MOAR GUNZ! GUNZ ARE THE SOLUTION, NOT THE PROBLEM! After Newtown, Rightbloggers Agree: Guns Don’t Kill People, Everything Except Guns Kills People.

After the gruesome murders of children and teachers by Adam Lanza in Newtown, Connecticut, apparently mostly performed with a Bushmaster AR-15 (“the civilian version of the military’s M-16 and M-4,” says the New York Times, “a logical choice for anyone whose goal is to kill a lot of people in a short time because of their ability to rapidly fire multiple high-velocity rounds”), rightbloggers were clear and united in their response: There are a lot of things that may have been the root cause of this tragedy — a lack of God, mental illness, public schools, liberals — but one thing that definitely had nothing at all to do with it was guns.

All the raving wingnuts are represented: Instapundit, Jeff Goldstein, Ace of Spades, National Review, neo-Confederate Robert Stacy McCain, and the Internet’s Dumbest Man, Jim Hoft. The leading lights of the right.

And speaking of Glenn “Instapundit” Reynolds, here he is retweeting a deranged, paranoid video from conspiracy lunatic Alex Jones:

Because that’s how the right wing blogs roll.

Jump to bottom

228 comments

1 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:36:25am

If only the shooter's mother had a gun she could have defended herself with.
/

2 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:36:52am

Sad thing is, I'd guess that for a lot of these tards, it has nothing to do with actual guns themselves. It's all about "winning the issue" and pissing in the face of the 'pacifist liberals.'

3 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:38:10am

re: #1 Kragar

If only the shooter's mother had a gun she could have defended herself with.
/

Crazy shit could've been sleeping with one under pillow and would still be dead.

4 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:38:39am

The problem is not guns. But the solution is guns.

Sounds legit.

5 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:39:06am

Shields are down, we cannot deflect this one, the Obamulan ship is closing on us!!!

6 HappyWarrior  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:40:11am

Alex Jones says that every massacre and probably ends up increasing gun ownership based on it yet Americans own a disproportionally high amount of the total guns in the world. Yeah Alex they're really coming for the guns. It would be nice if they came for you to tell you how ridiculous you are.

7 Skip Intro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:40:28am

re: #1 Kragar

If only the shooter's mother had a gun she could have defended herself with.
/

One isn't enough. If only she had five.

8 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:40:51am
There are a lot of things that may have been the root cause of this tragedy — a lack of God, mental illness, public schools, liberals — but one thing that definitely had nothing at all to do with it was guns.

Because once you remove the guns from the equation then... you don't have a classroom full of dead kids.

Wait a minute!

9 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:41:04am
10 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:41:19am

And, of course, if you suggest that gun control be either a part of, if not the biggest concern after such shootings, you get accused of pushing ideology instead of "real solutions."

What are these "real solutions"? MORE GUNZ!

11 allegro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:41:24am

Have any of them yet proposed that Obama set this up and put out a hit on little kids so he could come for their guns? I mean, look at the timing!

12 HappyWarrior  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:42:03am

Yeah this is what I don't get. I've seen everything from Video games, lack of God in public schools, abortion pills, Obama's social security policies, etc blamed for this but not the fact that Lanza's mother had quite the arsenal even though she knew her son had issues. But these are the people who repeatedly show that they care more about an inanimate object than actual people.

13 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:42:04am

re: #11 allegro

Have any of them yet proposed that Obama set this up and put out a hit on little kids so he could come for their guns? I mean, look at the timing!

I'm sure there's a few that have.

14 Interesting Times  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:42:11am

re: #11 allegro

Have any of them yet proposed that Obama set this up and put out a hit on little kids so he could come for their guns? I mean, look at the timing!

Freepers have been there, done that.

15 HappyWarrior  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:43:11am

re: #11 allegro

Have any of them yet proposed that Obama set this up and put out a hit on little kids so he could come for their guns? I mean, look at the timing!

I'm sure Alex Jones will after he has his daily dosage of crazy, paranoia, and nuts.

16 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:43:37am

re: #11 allegro

well that one is so obvious they don't even need to say it.

//

17 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:43:42am

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Yeah this is what I don't get. I've seen everything from Video games, lack of God in public schools, abortion pills, Obama's social security policies, etc blamed for this but not the fact that Lanza's mother had quite the arsenal even though she knew her son had issues. But these are the people who repeatedly show that they care more about an inanimate object than actual people.

Romney did say single mothers are responsible for gun violence

18 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:44:00am

re: #13 Ghost of Tom Joad

I'm sure there's a few that have.

Infowars:

Newton Connecticut Elementary Shooting Is A Staged False Flag

19 S.D.  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:44:26am

That Village Voice Blog entry was a really good read, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

20 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:44:30am

re: #18 Kragar

Infowars:

Newton Connecticut Elementary Shooting Is A Staged False Flag

*HEAD DESK*

21 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:44:46am

Bushmaster advertisement, h/t Digby:
Bushmaster Ad

22 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:47:10am

re: #18 Kragar

Infowars:

Newton Connecticut Elementary Shooting Is A Staged False Flag

And people wonder where nutters like Nancy Lanza get the idea that civilization's on the verge of collapse.

23 Decatur Deb  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:47:14am

re: #18 Kragar

Infowars:

Newton Connecticut Elementary Shooting Is A Staged False Flag

Anyone who can say that, either through insanity or cynical manipulation, has set out to undermine the country.

24 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:47:37am

Here's a hint to all the aging wingnut gun nuts: when it comes to manhood Viagra pwns Bushmaster.

25 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:48:34am

re: #24 Randall Gross

Here's a hint to all the aging wingnut gun nuts: when it comes to manhood Viagra pwns Bushmaster.

If one needs to own a gun to affirm their manhood, then perhaps they need to see a shrink about self-image problems.

26 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:48:42am

They have a computer from the house per the presser this am, I'm curious what the computer forensics investigation is going to find.

27 Skip Intro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:48:47am

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Yeah this is what I don't get. I've seen everything from Video games, lack of God in public schools, abortion pills, Obama's social security policies, etc blamed for this but not the fact that Lanza's mother had quite the arsenal even though she knew her son had issues.

She apparently had a few issues herself.

28 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:49:33am

Tennessee pastor: Mass shootings because schools teach evolution and ‘how to be a homo’

A Tennessee pastor on Sunday told his congregation that the number of mass shooting were escalating because of schools were government “mind-control centers” that taught “junk about evolution” and “how to be a homo.”

Old Paths Baptist Church Pastor Sam Morris began speaking about last week’s school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut by warning that “this sermon will not be pleasant.”

“We get all up in arms about 20 children being shot in a day care but we don’t give one good-glory rip about the 4,000 that were removed violently from the wombs of their mothers [in abortion procedures] the same day,” he explained. “I believe they use children and Christmas and all that to pull on our heart strings about gun control. That’s what it’s all about.”

Morris asserted that equal rights was a “sham” because it’s “equal immorality” and that authorities should take the body of the suspected shooter, 20-year-old Adam Lanza, “and string him up in public and set his body on fire and leave it out there to let the birds pick his bones.”

“We’re going to see more of this,” he continued. “Because notice, the first thing in America we start yelling about is gun control is gun control. Have you noticed that? Gun control. No one’s even thought about the fact that these shootings only happened at places where guns are banned. Have you noticed that? They have never had a mass shooting at a gun show, where you can find over a thousand loaded guns at one time.”

Yeah, the shooting deaths at gun shows are usually accidental. Those are fine.

29 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:50:05am

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Ok, one thing I'm going to quibble with a bit. It's been noted that she was one of those "doomsday preppers" or "survivalists" so I don't think she was exactly firing on all cylinders. Whether she thought her son was a loony or not shouldn't matter, because IMHO she was seemingly stuck on stupid. She had an unsecured stash of high-grade militaristic hardware in her home. I couldn't give a flying fuck if her kid was graduating MIT Magna-Cum Laude, it should have been locked up in a safe.

If she hadn't been a victim, I would be calling for her to spend the rest of her existence in prison because not securing them is the same as allowing those weapons to be used for nefarious purposes is criminally negligent and should be prosecutable.

My .02.

30 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:51:56am

re: #28 Kragar

Tennessee pastor: Mass shootings because schools teach evolution and ‘how to be a homo’

Yeah, the shooting deaths at gun shows are usually accidental. Those are fine.

And yet, they want to arm teachers and rely on them to protect our children.

Brilliant!///

31 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:51:59am
32 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:52:38am

re: #30 Targetpractice

And yet, they want to arm teachers and rely on them to protect our children.

Brilliant!///

But, teacher should not be allowed to collective bargain!

33 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:53:15am

Bunch of teacher with guns: collective bargaining.

34 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:54:30am

re: #31 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

8-year-old accidentally shoots self at gun show.

Remember this? 2009...

Mom kills son, then self at shooting range
'I had to send my son to heaven and myself to Hell,' suicide note says

35 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:54:59am

re: #32 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

But, teacher should not be allowed to collective bargain!

Teachers shouldn't be allowed to negotiate for their pay, protect their fellow teachers from wrongful termination, or expect their pension and health benefits to be any good. But they should be required to undergo training and arm themselves to guard the school, with no increase in pay or benefits.

36 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:55:25am

Do concealed-weapon laws result in less crime?

Gohmert’s statement was declarative and sweeping: “The facts are every time guns have been allowed, concealed-carry has been allowed, the crime rate has gone down.”

The actual evidence is much murkier — and in dispute. Certainly, it appears such laws have not increased the crime rate, as opponents had feared, but it is equally a stretch to say such laws are a slam-dunk reason for why crimes have decreased. Even those sympathetic to Lott’s research suggest that any decline in the crime rate from right-to-carry laws is more sporadic — as opposed to Gohmert’s claim that crime rate always goes down.

Moreover, even if one could prove a definitive link, other factors certainly play a role in reducing crime and should be acknowledged.

Three Pinocchios

37 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:55:38am

2010

Instructor's suicide shocks students
An Ohio State teacher went to a gun range in New Albany last week and shot and killed herself.

38 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:55:55am

Anonymous vows to ‘destroy’ Westboro Baptist Church over Sandy Hook picket plans

Members of the hacker collective “Anonymous” published a trove of information over the weekend purporting to be the individual names, email addresses, phone numbers and home addresses of every adult member of the infamous Westboro Baptist Church after the group announced plans to picket Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, CT.

“Your impact and cause is hazardous to the lives of millions and you fail to see the wrong in promoting the deaths of innocent people,” an “Anonymous” video featuring a computerized voice says over ominous music. “You are self-appointed servants of God who rewrite the words of his sacred scripture to adhere to your prejudice. Your hatred supersedes your faith, and you use faith to promote your hatred.”

The voice goes on to explain that members of the collective have decided “to execute an agenda of action which will progressively dismantle” the church. It doesn’t say how, but warns that “attrition is our weapon,” and that the campaign may be long.

Image: Popcorn_02_Stephen_Colbert.gif

39 freetoken  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:57:58am

re: #28 Kragar

Tennessee pastor: Mass shootings because schools teach evolution and ‘how to be a homo’

Yeah, the shooting deaths at gun shows are usually accidental. Those are fine.

You beat me to the punch.

Yes - anything but the guns - anything.

40 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:58:04am

re: #38 Kragar

i really have a love/hate relationship with Anonymous.

42 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:58:55am

I decided to turn on my tv for the first time in a couple years. CNN keeps bring on some guy claiming that more guns reduce crime. The same guy was on Pierre Morgan, Wolf Blitzer and the morning show. I guess it's nice they all debunk his stupid theory but they all pretend to be shocked and angry at him like they didn't know what he was going to say.

43 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:59:38am
44 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:59:46am

re: #40 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

i really have a love/hate relationship with Anonymous.

Hell, if they can even piss off Phelps and his deranged tribe of misanthropes, I'd donate a few bucks to their cause.

46 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:01:10am

re: #44 Ghost of Tom Joad

Hell, if they can even piss off Phelps and his deranged tribe of misanthropes, I'd donate a few bucks to their cause.

I wouldn't help them, but I don't have a problem with standing back and watching the carnage now and then.

47 Dr. Matt  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:01:16am

Tennessee pastor: Mass shootings because schools teach evolution and ‘how to be a homo’

48 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:02:55am
49 Interesting Times  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:03:12am
50 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:03:35am
51 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:03:54am

Wildmon: Satan Carried Out the Shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School

American Family Association president Tim Wildmon offered up his thoughts on last week's tragic school shooting in Connecticut by saying that Satan literally took possession of shooter Adam Lanza and carried out the attack

No, he didn't.

52 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:05:34am

re: #51 Kragar

Wildmon: Satan Carried Out the Shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School

No, he didn't.

It's so fucking curious that Satan only ever takes possession of those who already have mental health problems and perceived-by-their-unhealthy-mind justification for these acts.

Is Satan just lazy?

53 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:05:49am

re: #38 Kragar

Anonymous vows to ‘destroy’ Westboro Baptist Church over Sandy Hook picket plans

Image: Popcorn_02_Stephen_Colbert.gif

Meh. 1) The Phelps clan thrives on that kind of publicity. 2) this is the kind of thing that can get people killed or hurt. There's no guarantee that the info is accurate. Old Addresses, similar names, maybe people who have left the church, etc.. It's dangerous and reckless.

54 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:06:17am

Swanson: Having Gay Friends like Making Friends with Serial Killers

Swanson: Dave, you know, he says, ‘I have many, many gay friends.’ ‘Many, many gay friends.’

Buehner: Which is weird, because I have never said that.

Swanson: I have never said that either, I don’t say, ‘I have many, many gay friends.’ It’s almost like saying, ‘I have many, many gay fornicators;’ ‘I have many, many gay liar friends;’ it’s just craziness. I just interviewed this guy who goes into maximum security prisons and he interviews serial killers and I appreciate this guy, he’s actually had an opportunity to talk to a number of then and he says some twenty-five percent of them actually do repent he thinks, and it’s wonderful to see their lives turn around. So I mean, you know, what does this guy say: ‘I have many, many serial killer friends.’ I don’t think he says that, he doesn’t say that. I think he says, ‘it’s a shameful thing to be a serial killer.’ You wouldn’t want to wear that on a t-shirt, you wouldn’t want to say ‘I have many, many friends who kill people.’

Buehner: ‘I have many, many cannibal friends.’ ‘I have many, many molester friends.’ Just pick the abomination.

Swanson: You just don’t want to wear that on a shirt.

Buehner: ‘Many of my friends are wife beaters,’ would I say that?

I would never say I have many Conservative or Evangelical friends.

55 Decatur Deb  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:06:58am

re: #48 Gus

Image: video-game-chart-no-trendline.jpg

That chart is skewed!! Murderers aren't home on weekends!! What's the real M-12 murder rate! Of course, when you kill everybody, the death rate falls!!! MMGruukkk!

56 researchok  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:07:09am

re: #21 Randall Gross

Bushmaster advertisement, h/t Digby:
Bushmaster Ad

Gus posted that on the previous tread. As I noted,

Gun culture: Exhibit A

Not much more in the way of commentary needed.

57 Dr. Matt  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:07:13am
58 freetoken  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:07:34am

re: #51 Kragar

Wildmon: Satan Carried Out the Shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School

No, he didn't.

And along that line, the JBS published an editorial yesterday:

After Columbine: Why School Shootings Still Happen

[...]

Obviously, Lanza was also exposed to the entire secular-humanist curriculum of our atheist public schools: evolution, values clarification, sex education, and other programs that served to wrest children away from traditional Biblical religion. [...]

Anything but the guns.

59 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:07:35am

re: #52 erik_t

It's so fucking curious that Satan only ever takes possession of those who already have mental health problems and perceived-by-their-unhealthy-mind justification for these acts.

Is Satan just lazy?

They have mental health problems because they accepted Satan. If they really loved Jesus, they would be fine. Its the dirty sinner's choice.
///

60 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:07:35am
61 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:08:23am

re: #52 erik_t

It's so fucking curious that Satan only ever takes possession of those who already have mental health problems and perceived-by-their-unhealthy-mind justification for these acts.

Is Satan just lazy?

There's no such thing as mental illness. There is only weakness that allows Satan to control you. Let us help you with an exorcism that looks suspiciously like being beaten while being screamed at.

God I wish I was joking.

62 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:09:06am

re: #21 Randall Gross

Bushmaster advertisement, h/t Digby:
Bushmaster Ad

Indeed. As many other ads tell us, having the right tool for the job is a big part of being a man, whether it is viagra or your flint-napping stones.

Now suppose you are a run of the mill American nut-case and you want to stand out from the usual crowd of crazies by killing a lot of people at once. What is the best tool for that job?

A. Ball-peen hammer
B. Chain-saw
C. H&R Buffalo Classic rifle
D. Bushmaster

All of these are lethal, at least potentially, but outstandingly successful and famous maniac shooters know which choice to make.

63 majii  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:09:17am

I think this is what those 31 pro-gun RW members of Congress were waiting for--these RW bloggers to provide cover for them when they rear their ugly heads to make excuses for opposing a ban on assault weapons. I can imagine LaPierre, Priebus, and others on the right making frantic calls to these bloggers this weekend and begging them to create a distraction for them so they won't have to address the tragedy that took place at Sandy Hook Elementary on Friday.

64 Bulworth  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:09:24am

re: #54 Kragar

who are these people?

65 Talking Point Detective  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:09:43am

I've read that the problem is a lack of "moral certitude" that is causing this epidemic of violent crime crime in this country.

The logic is stunning:

(1) Does that mean we'd solve the problem if we had the "moral certitude" of slave-owning founding fathers, Crusaders, or Jihadis? (If only we had the "moral certitude" that lead to public duels, lynchings, human beings enslaved, women systematically raped by their "owners," tarring and feathering, labor riots, etc.)

(2) Why do people choose to ignore historical rates of violent crime to conclude that we have been experiencing an epidemic of violent crime?

--snip--

The best available indicator of long-term trends in violence is the murder rate. An American's chance of being murdered was relatively low in the 1950s and early 1960s. It doubled between 1964 and 1974, remained high from 1974 to 1980, declined significantly between 1980 and 1985, and edged back up in the late 1980s. In 1989 the murder rate was higher than it had been from 1983 to 1988, lower than it had been from 1972 to 1982, and higher than it had been from 1950 to 1972. Victimization surveys -- that is, surveys asking people whether they have been the victims of crimes -- suggest that non-lethal violence has followed the same trajectory. Furthermore, black-white differences in the incidence of violence have been diminishing, not increasing.

--snip--


Here is a Violent Death Project chart showing the annual death rate from homicide and war through the course of American history.

Image: united-states-separated-military-and-homicide-rates-historical-small.jpg

Here is a Violent Death Project chart showing the annual death rate from homicide, manslaughter and executions through the course of American history.

Image: united-states-historical-homicide-rate-large.jpg

66 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:10:00am

re: #52 erik_t

It's so fucking curious that Satan only ever takes possession of those who already have mental health problems and perceived-by-their-unhealthy-mind justification for these acts.

Is Satan just lazy?

It's not so much a matter of being lazy, frankly. It's just.......less hassle.

You know, path of least resistance, that sort of thing.

67 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:10:12am

re: #57 Dr. Matt

Yet the .223 is the standard of the US military. Teh stoopid, it hurtz.

.223's a varmint round, it's why the Army was against adopting the AR-15 in the first place. What ultimately sold it was that you can carry more ammo for the same weight and it's easier to control on automatic fire than 7.62mm is.

68 Dr. Matt  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:10:13am
Right Wing Bloggers Blame Everything but Guns

What about unicorns?

69 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:11:24am

re: #64 Bulworth

who are these people?

These would be your conservative spiritual leaders.

70 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:11:55am

re: #67 Targetpractice

.223's a varmint round, it's why the Army was against adopting the AR-15 in the first place. What ultimately sold it was that you can carry more ammo for the same weight and it's easier to control on automatic fire than 7.62mm is.

That and a wounded person can be a bigger drain on a unit that a dead one.

71 Dr. Matt  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:12:05am

re: #67 Targetpractice

.223's a varmint round, it's why the Army was against adopting the AR-15 in the first place. What ultimately sold it was that you can carry more ammo for the same weight and it's easier to control on automatic fire than 7.62mm is.

Yes. I know the history. I own a .223/5.56 rifle and I can verify it's more than a "varmint round".

72 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:12:07am

From the Dkos Rec list: A Reflection on Mental Illness from a Former High School Teacher

Another inevitability in the wake of a gun-related tragedy is the expression of the idea that we should focus our prevention efforts not on guns, but on mental illness. Now, I have no problem with addressing the issue of mental illness, although I don't see why we can't do both. However, my experience as a teacher suggests at least a small reason why we have so much difficulty addressing mental illness in young people, thus allowing it to fester unchecked into adulthood.

73 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:12:32am

Focus On The Family: Being Gay Is Just A ‘Political Statement’

This week, in an interview with conservative radio host Janet Mefferd, he tried to suggest that gay identities don’t even exist, that they’re just a “political statement” advanced by heterosexuals trying to normalize same-sex behavior:

STANTON: First of all, we need to understand that “gay” and “lesbian” really are — to use the language of feminist studies people — a cultural construct… “Gay” and “lesbian” are very new kinds of things. Yes, there’s always been homosexuality in human experience, but it was typically something that heterosexuals… did to another person.

“Gay” and “lesbian” are really sort of sociological or political statements or identifications… It’s the signing on to a political sexual sort of agenda… There are lots of people who have homosexual or same-sex orientations that just don’t identify themselves as “gay” or “lesbian” because again, “gay” or “lesbian” is a social political sort of identity…

Being “gay” or being “lesbian” is a thing that’s only been present in maybe the past 50 years or so.

74 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:12:43am

re: #57 Dr. Matt

Yet the .223 is the standard of the US military. Teh stoopid, it hurtz.

Actually, a lot of what is required for hunting (for instance deer hunting in PA) would be a violation of the Geneva Conventions if fired by the military at people. Hollow points, soft-nose slugs, etc. - stuff designed for maximum carnage when it hits flesh.

75 Petero1818  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:13:14am

Pretty logical and well written piece on next steps by David Gergen. I must confess, when it comes to the talking heads on the various networks more often than not I find him to be the most reasonable. Not always, but often.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

76 freetoken  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:13:25am

re: #72 Killgore Trout

It doesn't seem to be an either-or proposition to me.

77 Jolo5309  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:14:37am

re: #11 allegro

Have any of them yet proposed that Obama set this up and put out a hit on little kids so he could come for their guns? I mean, look at the timing!

I wondered that on another site on Sunday!

78 Dr. Matt  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:14:45am

re: #74 Feline Fearless Leader

Actually, a lot of what is required for hunting (for instance deer hunting in PA) would be a violation of the Geneva Conventions if fired by the military at people. Hollow points, soft-nose slugs, etc. - stuff designed for maximum carnage when it hits flesh.

I've hunted whitetail in MI, TX, and FL and never heard of such requirements. Albeit, the deer in Florida are large dogs compared those that roam in PA.

79 HappyWarrior  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:14:53am

re: #73 Kragar

Focus On The Family: Being Gay Is Just A ‘Political Statement’

"Being a evangelical Christian is just an excuse to be a bigoted asshole." See I can play that game too Focus on the Family.

80 researchok  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:15:05am

re: #60 Gus

I would add intelligence deficiency to the descriptor.

81 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:15:08am
82 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:15:25am

re: #74 Feline Fearless Leader

Hollow points, soft-nose slugs, etc. - stuff designed for maximum carnage when it hits flesh.

Well, as you'd expect. Hunters don't want to track a dying animal for half a mile through the forest.

83 freetoken  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:15:45am

re: #75 Petero1818

Lots of people have ideas, the problem is actually getting something implemented to try. E.g., Bob Wright proposes:

Imagine the following world, which it's within our power to create: It's illegal to sell or possess a firearm--rifle or pistol--that can hold more than six bullets. And it's illegal to sell or possess a firearm with a detachable magazine. In other words, once a shooter exhausted the six rounds, he couldn't just snap in another six-round magazine; he'd have to put six more bullets in the gun one by one.

There'd be plenty of resistance to even this.

84 Dr. Matt  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:15:53am

re: #70 erik_t

That and a wounded person can be a bigger drain on a unit that a dead one.

I'll venture to guess that the families of the 26 dead wish the shooter was using an actual "varmint round".

85 researchok  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:16:05am

re: #81 Gus

Lots more propellant.

86 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:16:07am

re: #79 HappyWarrior

"Being a evangelical Christian is just an excuse to be a bigoted asshole." See I can play that game too Focus on the Family.

Being a dominionist is a relatively new thing. Its more of a political statement.

87 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:16:30am

re: #76 freetoken

It doesn't seem to be an either-or proposition to me.

Agreed.

88 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:17:34am
89 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:17:43am

re: #73 Kragar

Focus On The Family: Being Gay Is Just A ‘Political Statement’

[facepalm, literally] Sorry, but I just don't have the words for describing how rotten and how wrong that statement is.

I'd also note that homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in Newtown. There is no evidence the shooter had any gay inclinations or hatred of gays. So those trying to relate this act of evil with gayness are filthy liars.

90 HappyWarrior  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:17:46am

re: #86 Kragar

Being a dominionist is a relatively new thing. Its more of a political statement.

Well yeah considering people have been gay since people have been straight.

91 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:18:16am

re: #79 HappyWarrior

"Being a evangelical Christian is just an excuse to be a bigoted asshole." See I can play that game too Focus on the Family.

They are right in that society has only progressed far enough to let these people openly refer to themselves as gay in the past 50 years, but these guys are generally not pleased with any of the progress that society has made in the past century...

92 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:19:22am

re: #88 Gus

White House won’t say if gun control is a top priority for Obama

Why do they ask idiot questions? I thought obama made his position pretty clear in his speech to the victims.

93 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:19:50am

re: #85 researchok

Lots more propellant.

And its still an intermediate rifle round. Many rifle fire rounds like the 30-06 which are much more power still.

94 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:20:32am

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

[facepalm, literally] Sorry, but I just don't have the words for describing how rotten and how wrong that statement is.

I'd also note that homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in Newtown. There is no evidence the shooter had any gay inclinations or hatred of gays. So those trying to relate this act of evil with gayness are filthy liars.

Has nothing to do with Lanza's orientation methinks. It's another one of those "God punished the children because we don't burn the gays alive" types of bullshit.

95 HappyWarrior  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:20:38am

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

[facepalm, literally] Sorry, but I just don't have the words for describing how rotten and how wrong that statement is.

I'd also note that homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in Newtown. There is no evidence the shooter had any gay inclinations or hatred of gays. So those trying to relate this act of evil with gayness are filthy liars.

And even if he was gay, it means nothing. What I always want to ask people like this is if they think it's acceptable to blame heterosexuality and Christianity if said person is a straight Christian? I'd probably get a rightful crazy look so why I want to honestly know from them is why on earth they think it's acceptable to blame a lack of religious belief or homosexuality. Idiots like Fischer point out that there were Gay and Nazis drawn to the Occult which is technically true but there were a lot more Nazis who were straight and believed that they were doing the work of Christ. We need to stop blaming groups.

96 efuseakay  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:23:19am

Grain of salt, but Brightfart is reporting that NBC reporter Richard Engel is missing in Syria... and the comments at Fweeperland are quite disheartening, but expected.

97 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:24:02am

Did Donald come to his senses or did Anon hack his Twitter feed?

98 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:24:07am

re: #84 Dr. Matt

I'll venture to guess that the families of the 26 dead wish the shooter was using an actual "varmint round".

On the contrary, I posit that this sort of event would be a lot less likely if the only rifles available were firing larger and heavier cartridges that result in longer and heavier weapons that are massively ill-suited to urban combat and firing at high rates of fire in close quarters.

This is, after all, why a rifle from WW1 or WW2 is quite appropriate to modern hunting but not to modern warfare. The latter changed (not a lot of aimed half-mile shots from trench to trench), and the tools changed to follow.

Perversely, I think if anything we need to be more heavily regulating the smaller cartridges.

99 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:25:18am
100 HappyWarrior  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:25:52am

re: #97 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

Did Donald come to his senses or did Anon hack his Twitter feed?

[Embedded content]

I don't know. Maybe actually seeing the president in action somewhat close to home will make him realize he's acted like an ass the past four years. Idealistic I know but sometimes a light bulb goes off.

101 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:26:26am

re: #99 Gus

Image: Bushmaster_Mancard_1.png

Maybe the way to a safer America is taxpayer-funded penis enlargement.

I'm not even being sarcastic.

102 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:26:35am
103 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:26:40am

re: #88 Gus

[Embedded content]

I think that might be a smart move. I was just reading the Frum article that's making the rounds.
Why Obama shouldn't lead fight against gun violence

It might be best to allow this to originate from congress.

104 Four More Tears  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:26:46am

re: #99 Gus

Image: Bushmaster_Mancard_1.png

A license to pretend like you don't really have a small pee pee.

105 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:26:55am

re: #98 erik_t

On the contrary, I posit that this sort of event would be a lot less likely if the only rifles available were firing larger and heavier cartridges that result in longer and heavier weapons that are massively ill-suited to urban combat and firing at high rates of fire in close quarters.

This is, after all, why a rifle from WW1 or WW2 is quite appropriate to hunting but not to modern warfare. The latter changed (not a lot of aimed half-mile shots from trench to trench, and the tools changed to follow.

Perversely, I think if anything we need to be more heavily regulating the smaller cartridges.

Depending on where you live and what you hunt a rifle might not be appropriate at all. In areas of PA, and I think fairly large chunks of NY, even deer hunting is limited to using a shotgun firing slugs. Limited range and carry of the round in order to increase safety.

(Googling to see if I can find links to some of the applicable regulations on weapons and ammo.)

106 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:27:05am

re: #51 Kragar

Wildmon: Satan Carried Out the Shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School

Satan would have to exist first. He doesn't, so no. He didn't do it.

107 HappyWarrior  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:27:25am

License to feel big down there just doesn't have the same ring that license to kill does, now does it?

108 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:28:45am

re: #105 Feline Fearless Leader

Depending on where you live and what you hunt a rifle might not be appropriate at all. In areas of PA, and I think fairly large chunks of NY, even deer hunting is limited to using a shotgun firing slugs. Limited range and carry of the round in order to increase safety.

Completely agree. We're still left with a heavy and bulky weapon, although birdshot and the like are going to be a tricky sticking point. At least you can't fit thirty shells in a pump-action.

109 researchok  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:29:57am

re: #99 Gus

re: #102 Gus

A window into an alternate universe.

Or ours.

110 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:30:18am

re: #105 Feline Fearless Leader

Here on Long Island it's strictly slug in applicable areas (no rifle, unless at licensed ranges). Upstate it's rifle in most areas, though I'm not sure sure about areas closer to cities.

111 Decatur Deb  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:31:06am

re: #101 erik_t

Maybe the way to a safer America is taxpayer-funded penis enlargement.

I'm not even being sarcastic.

If I wanted the gov to pay big dicks I'd vote Republican.

112 Political Atheist  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:31:14am

re: #57 Dr. Matt

The .223 is not the same as the military round 5.56×45mm NATO of the same caliber/diameter & overall shape. The military round has more pressure and powder. It is very dangerous to put mil spec ammunition in a .223 gun. It can blow the breech.

They look the same except on the bottom.

113 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:31:24am
114 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:31:38am

re: #109 researchok

re: #102 Gus

A window into an alternate universe.

Or ours.

You can take a test.

115 iceweasel  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:32:15am

re: #111 Decatur Deb

If I wanted the gov to pay big dicks I'd vote Republican.

Ahhahahaha!

116 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:33:48am

re: #102 Gus

Image: Bushmaster_Mancard_2.jpg

I don't like people promoting beer or guns making their products icons of masculinity. It fosters incredibly bad habits and I doubt if women see it as anything but stupid.

A real man gets things done and is able to draw his pride from his accomplishments. He may well own a rifle, but he takes his pride from his skill with it, not because its "tacticool".

117 HappyWarrior  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:33:48am

re: #111 Decatur Deb

If I wanted the gov to pay big dicks I'd vote Republican.

And that folks is the post of the day as of now.

118 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:34:13am

re: #73 Kragar

Focus On The Family: Being Gay Is Just A ‘Political Statement’

Good…fucking…Christ! As the saying goes, "Teh stoopid. It burns!"

119 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:34:57am

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

A real man adult gets things done and is able to draw his pride from his accomplishments. He may well own a rifle, but he takes his pride from his skill with it, not because its "tacticool".

FTFY; not implying you meant anything gender-specific.

120 researchok  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:35:50am

re: #113 Gus

I suspect this ad campaign will be short lived.

I'm psychic that way.
//

121 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:35:55am

re: #75 Petero1818

Pretty logical and well written piece on next steps by David Gergen. I must confess, when it comes to the talking heads on the various networks more often than not I find him to be the most reasonable. Not always, but often.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

That article mentions using a campaign based on MADD also mentioned in the Frum Article I linked to at #103. It's a very interesting idea.

122 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:36:02am

re: #112 Political Atheist

The .223 is not the same as the military round 5.56×45mm NATO of the same caliber/diameter & overall shape. The military round has more pressure and powder. It is very dangerous to put mil spec ammunition in a .223 gun. It can blow the breech.

They look the same except on the bottom.

There are semi-autos that can handle mil-spec ammo safely. But you have to do your research to find one and then make sure its right for you. As ever, don't believe the marketing hype, instead shop smart.

123 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:37:11am

re: #97 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

Did Donald come to his senses or did Anon hack his Twitter feed?

[Embedded content]

I'm going with a Twitter hack. That post is way too coherent and rational to be written by Trump.

124 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:37:21am

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

I don't like people promoting beer or guns making their products icons of masculinity. It fosters incredibly bad habits and I doubt if women see it as anything but stupid.

A real man gets things done and is able to draw his pride from his accomplishments. He may well own a rifle, but he takes his pride from his skill with it, not because its "tacticool".

A real man like Jesus never carried a weapon.

125 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:39:50am

re: #119 erik_t

FTFY; not implying you meant anything gender-specific.

I did mean it to be gender-focused, though not gender-specific. The ads in question were speaking solely to men and so my reply was aimed towards men. But my statement should not be read to say that "what a real man is, a woman is not."

126 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:40:05am

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

There are semi-autos that can handle mil-spec ammo safely. But you have to do your research to find one and then make sure its right for you. As ever, don't believe the marketing hype, instead shop smart. Shop S-Mart.

127 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:40:46am

re: #124 Destro

A real man like Jesus never carried a weapon.

Fischer: Jesus' Teaching is 'Virtually the Foundation of the Second Amendment'

We not only care about the First Amendment on Focal Point, we also care about the Second Amendment. And remember, the Second Amendment, this is basically the right to self defense, this is the right to protect yourself, it's the right to bear arms in your own defense, it's our surest guarantee against a tyrannical takeover by some occupying power or even by our own government. A government is stopped, they are stalled, they have to be mindful of the fact that the American citizens have arms, so there's a limit to what they can get away with under the use of force.

So the Second Amendment is very important to us. Jesus, his teaching [is] virtually the foundation of the Second Amendment because, remember, one time he told his disciples "look, the time is going to come when you're going to need a sword - if you don't have a sword, sell everything you've got and buy one, you're going to need one for your own protection." So Jesus [was] legitimizing the use of the right of self-defense, endorsing the right of self-defense, and that's what is enshrined in the Second Amendment.

128 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:41:28am

re: #124 Destro

A real man like Jesus never carried a weapon.

The Bartonverse has already crafted a rationale to duck around that.

He used the word sword in a metaphorical fashion one time, so weapons bonanza for everyone.

129 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:41:38am

re: #96 efuseakay

Grain of salt, but Brightfart is reporting that NBC reporter Richard Engel is missing in Syria... and the comments at Fweeperland are quite disheartening, but expected.

[Link: gawker.com...]

130 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:42:02am

re: #108 erik_t

Completely agree. We're still left with a heavy and bulky weapon, although birdshot and the like are going to be a tricky sticking point. At least you can't fit thirty shells in a pump-action.

Found the applicable PA regs:

PA (Deer and Bear) - Arms and Ammo

Deer and Bear: Regular Seasons - 1) Manually operated (pump,
lever, bolt actions, single-shot) centerfi re rifl es, shotguns and handguns
(revolvers or single-shots) with all lead bullet or ball, or bullet
designed to expand on impact; 2) muzzleloading long guns of any
type, 44 caliber or larger, or a muzzleloading handgun 50 caliber
or larger; and 3) long, recurve, compound bows (minimum draw
weight of 35 pounds) or crossbows with broadheads of cutting edge
design. The use of buckshot is not legal, except in the Southeast
Special Regulations Area.

No specific ammo restriction beyond all-lead ball or bullet. Though if you look for hunting (game) rounds vs military rounds you generally see them being "blunt" soft-nosed bullets as compared to military rounds that are more ballistic in appearance. (Anecdotal though - mainly from seeing 8mm and 30-06 rounds. Less likely in .223 since it's fairly easy and cheap to get surplus military ammo in this caliber. But I don't know anyone who hunts in .223 - though my BIL in Colorado has a bolt-action .223 for dealing with varmits.)

Don't see any sort of magazine restriction until you get over into turkey and small game. There are some shot size and composition restrictions there as well as a limit to three (3) shells combined in chamber and magazine.

[Link: www.portal.state.pa.us...]
(Link to Hunter Digest portal is one wants to browse the stuff themselves.)

131 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:42:34am

re: #111 Decatur Deb

If I wanted the gov to pay big dicks I'd vote Republican.

Updinged. Would upding again if I could. A+ post.

132 blueraven  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:42:40am

re: #26 Randall Gross

They have a computer from the house per the presser this am, I'm curious what the computer forensics investigation is going to find.

I heard that Adam had pretty much destroyed the hard drive. I wonder if there is much left to investigate?

133 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:42:46am
134 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:42:49am

re: #127 Kragar

...it's our surest guarantee against a tyrannical takeover by some occupying power...

Fischer is insane.

135 Skip Intro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:45:29am

re: #51 Kragar

Wildmon: Satan Carried Out the Shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School

It must be nice to have an all purpose boogie man to blame things on. Usually it's those damn godless atheists.

136 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:45:34am

re: #127 Kragar

Fischer: Jesus' Teaching is 'Virtually the Foundation of the Second Amendment'

Protestants - shrug- what are you going to do.........

137 Bulworth  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:45:36am

From the Gergen article:

THIRD: Parents should be heavily advised to keep guns out of their houses and out of the hands of kids. No one wants to blame the poor mother of the Connecticut shooter, but everyone wonders why she kept so many military-style guns in the house, so accessible to her son.

Heavily advised?

No one wants to blame the poor mother of the Connecticut shooter

Really? Why not?

everyone wonders why she kept so many military-style guns in the house, so accessible to her son

Because she was a survivalist nut. Legally sane. And apparently otherwise a good neighbor to those in need, as an article I read today claimed. But a nut, nonetheless.

I hope he's right about changing the gun culture. I'm skeptical. But would be happy to be proven wrong.

138 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:45:43am

re: #127 Kragar

Can we please stop talking about Bryan Fischer, just for today? The man words are Dominionist Kool-Aid and reading them is depressing.


And yes, I just compared Bryan Fischer to Jim Jones. Fischer is extremely full of himself, has fantasies of persecution, and preaches a destructive doctrine that has the deliberate effect of isolating his follows from others. That in my mind justifies the comparison.

139 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:45:53am
140 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:46:41am

re: #132 blueraven

I heard that Adam had pretty much destroyed the hard drive. I wonder if there is much left to investigate?

It takes a lot to kill an old hard drive. You can smash it good but if the platter is ok, it can just be thrown into a blank and read.

141 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:46:47am

re: #127 Kragar

Fischer: Jesus' Teaching is 'Virtually the Foundation of the Second Amendment'

I'm re-reading the Sermon on the Mount right now. Unless the translation I'm looking at is severely lacking, there's not a single word about well-regulated militias or the right to bear arms.

142 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:47:02am

re: #135 Skip Intro

It must be nice to have an all purpose boogie man to blame things on. Usually it's those damn godless atheists.

Jesus seems to save atheist Chinese kids from madman's knife attack but allows American kids to be killed by Satan's agent.

143 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:47:14am

re: #141 Lidane

I'm re-reading the Sermon on the Mount right now. Unless the translation I'm looking at is severely lacking, there's not a single word about well-regulated militias or the right to bear arms.

What does it say about cheese makers?

144 Bulworth  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:47:54am

re: #141 Lidane

You're probably looking at one of those liberal translations. //

145 lawhawk  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:48:07am
146 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:48:20am

re: #143 Feline Fearless Leader

What does it say about cheese makers?

I don't recall the Bible saying a single thing about cheese last time I rennet.

147 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:48:37am

re: #144 Bulworth

You're probably looking at one of those liberal translations. //

Heh. Probably.

Maybe if I had the Wingnut Bible I'd see where Jesus advocated for gun rights.

148 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:48:49am

re: #145 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Sounds like the movie "Runaway Jury."

149 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:49:04am

2nd amendment is about maintaining a well regulated militia. It doesn't mention specific weaponry, only arms. Arm is short for armaments which includes a nuclear weapon.

150 Decatur Deb  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:49:04am

re: #146 erik_t

I don't recall the Bible saying a single thing about cheese last time I rennet.

Gouda Shepherd.

151 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:49:15am

re: #142 Destro

Jesus seems to save atheist Chinese kids from madman's knife attack but allows American kids to be killed by Satan's agent.

Chinese police say man who stabbed 23 children ‘influenced’ by Mayan doomsday ‘prediction’

152 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:49:37am

re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fischer: Jesus' Teaching is 'Virtually the Foundation of the Second Amendment'

To guys like Fischer, Jesus was equal parts Charlton Heston, Gordon Gekko, and Hannibal Lector.

153 Bulworth  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:49:49am

re: #150 Decatur Deb

It says Blessed are the Cheesemakers. Because cheese is really good.

154 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:50:13am

re: #145 lawhawk

Another call for a trial lawyer's buzzard feast.

155 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:50:29am

re: #152 Targetpractice

To guys like Fischer, Jesus was equal parts Charlton Heston, Gordon Gekko, and Hannibal Lector.

Wow, I bet he threw some kick-ass bachelor parties.

156 Bulworth  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:51:17am

re: #152 Targetpractice

You forgot Chuck Norris.

157 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:51:28am

re: #151 Kragar

Chinese police say man who stabbed 23 children ‘influenced’ by Mayan doomsday ‘prediction’

What's weird about the Chinese situation is that there are knife attacks on schools kids - how many? I don't know - but I do know it happens often enough for me to remember it happened before. Some say it has to do with the one child policy in China and men not having families snap and try and kill children.

158 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:53:59am

re: #145 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

COHEN, RON J
IRVINGTON, NY 10533
KIMBER MFG INC

SANTORUM, RICHARD J
VIA SANTORUM 2000
11/18/1997 1000.00 98020011040
05/15/1999 1000.00 99020080372

159 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:55:00am

re: #157 Destro

What's weird about the Chinese situation is that there are knife attacks on schools kids - how many? I don't know - but I do know it happens often enough for me to remember it happened before. Some say it has to do with the one child policy in China and men not having families snap and try and kill children.

Doesn't matter what the excuse is, its still utterly evil.

160 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:55:35am

re: #141 Lidane

I'm re-reading the Sermon on the Mount right now. Unless the translation I'm looking at is severely lacking, there's not a single word about well-regulated militias or the right to bear arms.

Analogies people. Not meant to be a factual quote, just trust him because he's Jesusy.

Sword = Bushmaster = Tactical nukes.

161 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:56:03am

SIG SAUER

Contributions to Political Committees

COHEN, RON
ANDOVER, MA 01810
SIG SAUER

SUNUNU, JOHN E
VIA TEAM SUNUNU
10/18/2007 200.00 28020041233
10/18/2007 300.00 28020041233

GOSLIN, RONALD
MIDDLETOWN, NH 03887
SIG SAUER, INC.

GUINTA, FRANK
VIA FRIENDS OF FRANK GUINTA
09/19/2012 250.00 12972662033

HOWCROFT, JASON
DANVILLE, NH 03819
SIG SAUER

PAUL, RON
VIA RON PAUL 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE INC.
12/16/2011 250.00 12951503440

KUJAWSKI, PETER
BEDFORD, NH 03110
SIG SAUER

AYOTTE, KELLY A
VIA FRIENDS OF KELLY AYOTTE
09/28/2009 1000.00 29020393755

SUNUNU, JOHN E
VIA TEAM SUNUNU
10/28/2007 200.00 28020041307
10/28/2007 300.00 28020041307

SHAWVER, STEVEN
BEDFORD, NH 03110
SIG SAUER

GUINTA, FRANK
VIA FRIENDS OF FRANK GUINTA
09/18/2012 250.00 12972662031

SHOER, JOSEPH
ANDOVER, MA 01810
SIG SAUER

SUNUNU, JOHN E
VIA TEAM SUNUNU
10/23/2007 500.00 28020041371

THOMAS, PHIL
LYMAN, ME 04002
SIG SAUER

PAUL, RON
VIA RON PAUL 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE INC.
02/16/2012 300.00 12951535494

THOMAS, PHILIP R.
LYMAN, ME 04002
SIG SAUER

PAUL, RON
VIA RON PAUL 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE INC.
05/17/2012 300.00 12952515833
08/04/2012 201.00 12972244137

Total Contributions: 4051.00

163 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:57:28am

OT: My new Page on Mali. Give it a look if you get a chance, and let me know what you think.

164 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:57:41am
165 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:57:42am

BUSHMASTER FIREARMS (1/2)

Contributions to Political Committees

DESANTIS, JOHN
STANDISH, ME 04084
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC.

SUMMERS, CHARLES E JR
VIA CHARLIE SUMMERS FOR CONGRESS COMMITTEE
10/22/2004 1000.00 25970033501

DESANTIS, JOHN A
STANDISH, ME 04084
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

COLLINS, SUSAN M
VIA COLLINS FOR SENATOR
06/07/2002 1000.00 22020382452
06/07/2002 1000.00 22020382451

DYKE, JEFFREY
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

COLLINS, SUSAN M
VIA COLLINS FOR SENATOR
06/24/2001 500.00 21020120214
06/07/2002 500.00 22020382461
06/07/2002 1000.00 22020382461

DYKE, RICHARD
HENDERSON, NV 89052
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS, INC.

SCONTRAS, DEAN P
VIA SCONTRAS FOR CONGRESS
12/19/2007 2300.00 28930566951

DYKE, RICHARD
WINDHAM, ME
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC.

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS/ SAVE AMERICAS FREE ENTERPRISE TRUST
09/04/2007 250.00 27990844487

DYKE, RICHARD
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

MAINE REPUBLICAN PARTY
04/27/2004 450.00 25990330419
03/02/2005 1000.00 26990168320
07/28/2005 250.00 26920013253

SUMMERS, CHARLES E JR
VIA CHARLIE SUMMERS FOR CONGRESS COMMITTEE
09/30/2004 2000.00 25990237816

DYKE, RICHARD
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC

NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE CONTRIBUTIONS
02/22/1999 300.00 99034640421
04/02/1999 600.00 99034640421

DYKE, RICHARD
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC.

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS/ SAVE AMERICAS FREE ENTERPRISE TRUST
02/21/2006 250.00 26940147254
03/01/2007 250.00 27930755656

166 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:58:11am

BUSHMASTER FIREARMS (2/2)

DYKE, RICHARD
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS/FIREARMS

REPUBLICAN PARTY OF FLORIDA
03/19/2002 500.00 22990683560

DYKE, RICHARD E
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

COLLINS, SUSAN M
VIA COLLINS FOR SENATOR
09/17/1999 1000.00 20020081058
06/24/2001 1000.00 21020120215
11/02/2007 2300.00 28020030385
11/02/2007 2300.00 28020030385

CONNELLY, ROSS J
VIA CONNELLY FOR CONGRESS
08/26/1998 1000.00 98033690846

DYKE, RICHARD E MR.
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE
08/10/2004 2000.00 25970554364

DYKE, RICHARD E.
WINDHAM, ME
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS, INC.

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS/ SAVE AMERICAS FREE ENTERPRISE TRUST
06/23/2008 250.00 28991490555
05/14/2010 250.00 10930824628

DYKE, RICHARD E.
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS, INC.

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS/ SAVE AMERICAS FREE ENTERPRISE TRUST
07/05/2011 650.00 11932251621
10/12/2011 1000.00 11952873013
07/23/2012 2000.00 12972047512

DYKE, RICHARD MR.
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC/C E O

NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE CONTRIBUTIONS
11/05/2001 1000.00 22990321199

DYKE JEFF,
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC/TREASURER

RAYE FOR CONGRESS
10/25/2002 1000.00 22992981770

DYKE RICHARD,
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC/CHAIRMAN

RAYE FOR CONGRESS
10/25/2002 1000.00 22992981771

EDWARDS, YUNG
HENDERSON, NV 89052
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

HAMEL, BRIAN N
VIA HAMEL FOR CONGRESS
06/29/2004 1000.00 24962087985

ELIASON, CHERYL L
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

COLLINS, SUSAN M
VIA COLLINS FOR SENATOR
06/07/2002 500.00 22020382464

ELIASON, LAWRENCE E
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

COLLINS, SUSAN M
VIA COLLINS FOR SENATOR
06/07/2002 500.00 22020382465

FARADAY, ALAN
SOUTH CASCO, ME 04077
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

CONNELLY, ROSS J
VIA CONNELLY FOR CONGRESS
08/26/1998 1000.00 98033690847

FARADAY, ALLEN
RAYMOND, ME 04071
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

COLLINS, SUSAN M
VIA COLLINS FOR SENATOR
05/21/2002 750.00 22020341268
05/21/2002 1000.00 22020341268

FARADAY, ALLEN
RAYMOND, ME 04071
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS/VP OF ADMIN

RAYE FOR CONGRESS
12/07/2001 1000.00 22990237046

FARADAY, ALLEN
SOUTH CASCO, ME 04077
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

AMERO, JANE A
VIA JANE AMERO FOR CONGRESS
12/20/1999 1000.00 20035232273
05/09/2000 250.00 20035633404

COLLINS, SUSAN M
VIA COLLINS FOR SENATOR
06/24/2001 250.00 21020120226

FARADAY ALLEN,
RAYMOND, ME 04071
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC/VP OF ADM

RAYE FOR CONGRESS
10/25/2002 1000.00 22992981772

MEYERS, PAUL MR.
PORTLAND, ME 04101
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INTERNATIONAL

ROMNEY, MITT / RYAN, PAUL D.
VIA ROMNEY FOR PRESIDENT INC.
01/21/2008 2300.00 28990995914

PATEL, SWETAL
DALLAS, GA 30132
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INT.

GINGREY, J. PHILLIP
VIA GINGREY FOR CONGRESS, INC.
09/23/2009 1000.00 10990163352

PATEL, SWETAL
DALLAS, GA 30132
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INT./EXEC. VP

GINGREY, J. PHILLIP
VIA GINGREY FOR CONGRESS, INC.
03/28/2011 500.00 12951886317

POPOVICH, VLADISLAV
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

MAINE REPUBLICAN PARTY
09/15/2000 250.00 20036273854

THURSTON, RICHARD
SCARBOROUGH, ME 04074
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

COLLINS, SUSAN M
VIA COLLINS FOR SENATOR
06/07/2002 1000.00 22020382663
06/07/2002 1000.00 22020382663

THURSTON, RICHARD
SCARBOROUGH, ME 04074
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS/VP - FINANCE

RAYE FOR CONGRESS
12/07/2001 1000.00 22990237061

THURSTON RICHARD,
SCARBOROUGH, ME 04074
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC/VP OF FIN

RAYE FOR CONGRESS
10/25/2002 1000.00 22992981799

TYLER, THOMAS
WINDHAM, ME 04062
BUSHMASTER FIREARMS

COLLINS, SUSAN M
VIA COLLINS FOR SENATOR
06/07/2002 500.00 22020382666

Total Contributions: 46700.00

167 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:58:14am
168 Big Steve  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:58:33am

re: #146 erik_t

I don't recall the Bible saying a single thing about cheese last time I rennet.

Job 10:10 -

Did you not pour me out like milk and curdle me like cheese?

169 Bulworth  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:58:58am

re: #162 Kragar

Prolife. /

170 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:59:23am
171 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:59:25am

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

Doesn't matter what the excuse is, its still utterly evil.

What excuse? Explanation is not excuse.

172 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:59:34am

re: #162 Kragar

National Review: Newtown Massacre Is The Price We Pay For The Second Amendment

The important thing is that you can't make an omelet with spraying eggs with .223 bullets.

Unless the eggs are white, male, Christian, and rich.

173 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:00:30pm

re: #162 Kragar

National Review: Newtown Massacre Is The Price We Pay For The Second Amendment

So 20 dead kids are totally worth it, then?

174 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:01:03pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

Who cares? They're still a bunch of heartless assholes.

175 Interesting Times  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:01:25pm
176 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:01:37pm

re: #172 The Ghost of a Flea

The important thing is that you can't make an omelet with spraying eggs with .223 bullets.

Unless the eggs are white, male, Christian, and rich.

If a black man is the same mental condition as the Newton shooter had sprayed up a school of white kids we would be up in arms (literally and figuratively) right now. Doubly if he was a Muslim.

177 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:02:04pm

re: #173 Lidane

So 20 dead kids are totally worth it, then?

Sure. After all it wasn't the private school their kids attend... (I wish I could sarc tag that ...)

178 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:02:57pm

re: #176 Destro

If a black man is the same mental condition as the Newton shooter had sprayed up a school of white kids we would be up in arms (literally and figuratively) right now. Doubly if he was a Muslim.

If it was a Muslim, there'd be a whole lot of folks on FR and Atlas screaming for a pogrom. And some would very likely start going Baruch Goldstein.

179 erik_t  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:03:54pm
(quotes of eleventy billion editorials and blog posts talking about how best to fortify schools in the future and how hard it's going to be)

So much of living a rational life is getting an answer you don't like and realizing that it might mean you're asking the wrong question.

180 CuriousLurker  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:04:11pm

re: #162 Kragar

National Review: Newtown Massacre Is The Price We Pay For The Second Amendment

I wonder if the authors (The Editors) would feel the same if it had been their children or grandchildren murdered. Assholes.

And this:

Those upset with the order of things are welcome to try, and doomed to fail, to repeal the Second Amendment via the constitutional process.

Who in the hell said anything about repealing the 2nd Amendment?

181 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:05:21pm

re: #180 CuriousLurker

I wonder if the authors (The Editors) would feel the same if it had been their children or grandchildren murdered. Assholes.

And this:

Who in the hell said anything about repealing the 2nd Amendment?

Strawman argument. One way to fight a potential groundswell and put on the appearance that it will take a tsunami to get over the seawall.

182 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:05:34pm

re: #175 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

I was thinking about that too but in relation to the assault weapons ban. Sure the gun industry bitches loudly but I don't think they mind that much. Even the mention of gun control drives up sales, then in a few years there's another bump in sales when the assault weapons ban is lifted. There are enough loopholes and weapons are grandfathered in, still sold at gun shows or private sales. The "ban" increases the price tag.

183 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:05:47pm

re: #178 Dr Lizardo

If it was a Muslim, there'd be a whole lot of folks on FR and Atlas screaming for a pogrom. And some would very likely start going Baruch Goldstein.

Fort Hood shooter Hassan was Muslim. That was pretty ugly on all counts.

184 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:06:15pm

re: #180 CuriousLurker

I wonder if the authors (The Editors) would feel the same if it had been their children or grandchildren murdered. Assholes.

And this:

Who in the hell said anything about repealing the 2nd Amendment?

Many, many on the right see the 2nd Amendment as an untouchable thing.
Nothing is allowed to limit it in any way.
Which is completely contrary to the other amendments.
Funny, that.

185 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:06:59pm

re: #180 CuriousLurker

I wonder if the authors (The Editors) would feel the same if it had been their children or grandchildren murdered. Assholes.

And this:

Who in the hell said anything about repealing the 2nd Amendment?

Apparently any attempt to control and regulate gun ownership completely overturns the entire right to bear arms.

186 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:07:29pm

I'm going to have to clear off at this point. I can't engage this issue without support.

To those who'll say "Why not say what you really think?", I reply "Because it wouldn't get me anything but trouble right now."

187 Interesting Times  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:07:54pm

On second thought, maybe the merchants of death can be hit in the pocketbook:

188 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:08:32pm

Read the NRO piece.

The murder of 27 innocents by a moral monster reminds us that the great challenges to the practicability of this theory are the young and the mad — those who cannot yet fully answer to reason and morality, and those who never will. By consensus, we agree that children and madmen lack certain liberties the rest of us enjoy, and that we have toward them correlate paternalistic duties that we don’t toward each other. As ever, the devil — the politics — lies in the details.

God, I hate retroactive psychology.

I'm more scared of politicians policing the definitions of sanity than of lethal weaponry. Between the plain ignorance, the Lyshenkoism, the pseudo-Christian moralizing, and the straight up stigma in this country where by mental illness of any kind = going postal I have zero faith in defining madness.

189 stabby  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:08:33pm

re: #118 Romantic Heretic

If being gay is a political statement then it's protected by the 1st Amendment. I'm not sure they want to go down that road where gay love and sex are protected from congress by the bright line that the constitution draws around speech.

190 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:08:47pm

re: #183 Kronocide

Fort Hood shooter Hassan was Muslim. That was pretty ugly on all counts.

True enough, and I remember there was a lot of hysteria about that one. But I think in this case, being as it was little kids, there's some people who'd completely lose it and go apeshit.

191 Decatur Deb  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:09:29pm

re: #178 Dr Lizardo

If it was a Muslim, there'd be a whole lot of folks on FR and Atlas screaming for a pogrom. And some would very likely start going Baruch Goldstein.

Policy, Risk, and Outrage:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

192 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:09:51pm

re: #178 Dr Lizardo

If it was a Muslim, there'd be a whole lot of folks on FR and Atlas screaming for a pogrom. And some would very likely start going Baruch Goldstein.

I mentioned that on Friday night. That's the reason we're hearing so many outlandish excuses and explanations. If he wasn't a white kid, whatever he was would be the de-facto excuse.

If he was Muslim, or hell even if he happened to be close to brown, we'd see a major surge in hate crimes against things like Mosques and other Temples (I forgot, was it Sikhs in that one temple shooting? Indians?)

But, he's white, so it's time to dust off the old excuses.

193 CuriousLurker  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:10:06pm

re: #183 Kronocide

Fort Hood shooter Hassan was Muslim. That was pretty ugly on all counts.

Yeah, but bad as that was he shot grown soldiers. Killing little kids is... I have no words for it. I think it would be more like the reaction to McVeigh (who also killed kids), you know, when they first captured him and did the perp walk? The rage towards him was palpable. Had the police turned him loose, I'm certain he wouldn't have survived walking 10 yards.

194 celticdragon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:10:30pm

I am wondering if it is possible to actually do anything at this point, seeing how the lines are being drawn.

Over at Balloon Juice (a site I have frequented for years) some of the louder folks are busy advocating the wholesale repeal of the 2nd Amendment while claiming that any and all gun owners are "swimming in the warm blood of the innocent" and also "have tiny penis's".

When I tried to point out that insulting gun owners who you will need to actually get useful regulation passed may not be the best idea, I was quickly told to fuck off and die.

Meeeeeeanwhile over at Instaidiot's House of Craaaazy, the Ol' Perfessor is advocating that I should be strapped and packing heat when I go off to teach at junior high.

Wow.

The screaming past each other will continue. Nothing will actually get passed because the GOP controls the House and the Senate will not produce a bill that a majority in the House will agree on. Well meaning and justified outrage on the left will unfortunately find expression like what I ran into, and gun owners (who overwhelmingly support some sort of controls according to polls) will refuse to compromise if they think they are being blamed or are being called baby killers and monsters.

And the clock starts ticking to the next massacre.

Jesus wept.

195 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:10:58pm

I realize that it's a small blessing, but I am glad this event did not occur 8-12 weeks ago.

196 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:11:17pm

America, On Our Way to Mogadishu!

197 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:12:03pm
198 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:12:17pm
199 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:12:35pm

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to have to clear off at this point. I can't engage this issue without support.

To those who'll say "Why not say what you really think?", I reply "Because it wouldn't get me anything but trouble right now."

That any of you gun defenders see these massacres as a 'necessary evil' to ensuring the 2nd Amendment is morally reprehensible.

200 Interesting Times  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:12:41pm

Boom:

201 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:13:13pm
202 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:13:33pm

re: #191 Decatur Deb

Interesting. I'll have to read the whole thing via pdf.

203 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:14:25pm

re: #198 Gus

Image: White-House-Phelps-Schock-Proposal-2.jpg

I SEE A MAO ORNAMENT!!11!ty

204 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:14:32pm

re: #197 Gus

That is awesome. Love it!

I can hear the wingnut head explosions and teeth grinding from here.

205 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:14:54pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

That any of you gun defenders see these massacres as a 'necessary evil' to ensuring the 2nd Amendment is morally reprehensible.

+1

206 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:15:06pm

re: #192 Ghost of Tom Joad

I mentioned that on Friday night. That's the reason we're hearing so many outlandish excuses and explanations. If he wasn't a white kid, whatever he was would be the de-facto excuse.

If he was Muslim, or hell even if he happened to be close to brown, we'd see a major surge in hate crimes against things like Mosques and other Temples (I forgot, was it Sikhs in that one temple shooting? Indians?)

But, he's white, so it's time to dust off the old excuses.

Very true. I remember looking over at FR during the initial stages of the massacre, before the gunman's name was known, and there were quite a few saying it was a jhadi attack.

Of course, there were also quite a few saying it was likely some crazy white kid.

207 Bulworth  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:15:23pm

re: #201 Shiplord Kirel

It's too high.

But no price is too high to pay to make sure that some people can't vote, just so that we can be absolutely sure there is no voter fraud! //

208 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:15:25pm

re: #204 Lidane

That is awesome. Love it!

I can hear the wingnut head explosions and teeth grinding from here.

209 Kronocide  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:15:35pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

That any of you gun defenders see these massacres as a 'necessary evil' to ensuring the 2nd Amendment is morally reprehensible.

The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants, er innocent children.

But if we water the tree with innocent children, then the tyrants won't ever come.

It's sacrificial logic.

210 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:16:42pm

re: #194 celticdragon

The thing is, as with probably every other issue in this country (hell, can generalize it to the world too), there is a happy medium that a majority of folks would happily support. The problem is the fringes on both sides of the issue. Those fringes are the folks that scream the loudest, that tend to have the biggest financial backing, and have the biggest media presence.

Moderate voices are seldom heard because the lunatic fringes are too busy screaming over them at each other.

211 stabby  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:17:36pm

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

I'm not passionate about this issue on either side.
While I generally come down on the side of "people should be able to own or do whatever they want" it looks to me like what people do with guns may be just too much.

If it were up to me, people could buy any drug without a prescription including cocaine. If it were up to me there would be no laws against prostitution. If it were up to me, the age of consent would be lower - ie it shouldn't be illegal for people to do what they're going to do anyway.

But given the results in this country, I have to support gun control if reluctantly. People use guns to kill OTHER people. That's not victimless.

212 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:18:37pm

re: #208 Gus

[Embedded content]

I can hear the wingnut splodey heads and teeth grinding all the way over here, near the Polish border.

Congrats.

213 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:18:44pm

AK-47s FOR EVERYONE!

214 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:19:07pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

That any of you gun defenders see these massacres as a 'necessary evil' to ensuring the 2nd Amendment is morally reprehensible.

Kids get slaughtered, but hey, some douche has his "man card."

If that's the case, then I can easily rationalize stealing from rich people so a poor kid can eat a decent meal.

215 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:21:42pm

re: #206 Dr Lizardo

Very true. I remember looking over at FR during the initial stages of the massacre, before the gunman's name was known, and there were quite a few saying it was a jhadi attack.

Of course, there were also quite a few saying it was likely some crazy white kid.

I think it was Chris Rock, maybe? Who did a small skit on crime and race in American. The gist of it was how black people crime is usually robbing somebody because they have no money. White people always did all the creepy shit, like kidnapping, mass murder, eating people, mail bombings etc.

216 allegro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:23:37pm

re: #210 Ghost of Tom Joad

The thing is, as with probably every other issue in this country (hell, can generalize it to the world too), there is a happy medium that a majority of folks would happily support. The problem is the fringes on both sides of the issue. Those fringes are the folks that scream the loudest, that tend to have the biggest financial backing, and have the biggest media presence.

Moderate voices are seldom heard because the lunatic fringes are too busy screaming over them at each other.

What both sides? What "fringe" for gun control has any voice at all least of all financial backing and media presence?

217 Four More Tears  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:24:34pm

re: #201 Shiplord Kirel

It's too high.

Only when it's your kids...

218 CuriousLurker  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:24:51pm

re: #209 Kronocide

The Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants, er innocent children.

But if we water the tree with innocent children, then the tyrants won't ever come.

It's sacrificial logic.

That's exactly what it reminded me of. *shudder*

219 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:26:00pm

re: #192 Ghost of Tom Joad

I mentioned that on Friday night. That's the reason we're hearing so many outlandish excuses and explanations. If he wasn't a white kid, whatever he was would be the de-facto excuse.

If he was Muslim, or hell even if he happened to be close to brown, we'd see a major surge in hate crimes against things like Mosques and other Temples (I forgot, was it Sikhs in that one temple shooting? Indians?)

But, he's white, so it's time to dust off the old excuses.

If it was anything but white suburban killer it would be a right wing wet dream. That would be an excuse for them to buy and hoard more guns and join faux militias where obese middle aged men pretend they can hump in the bush for days at a time like a real soldier can.

220 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:28:26pm

re: #215 Ghost of Tom Joad

I think it was Chris Rock, maybe? Who did a small skit on crime and race in American. The gist of it was how black people crime is usually robbing somebody because they have no money. White people always did all the creepy shit, like kidnapping, mass murder, eating people, mail bombings etc.

It was Chris Rock.

"You know, l was just in my hotel, a little while ago, on my way here...and l got in the elevator, right? l'm getting in the elevator...and these two high-school white boy stry to get on with me...and l just dove off. l said, ''Y'all ain't killing me!''l am scared of young white boys.

lf you white and under 21 l am running for the hills. What the hell is wrong with these white kids shooting up the school? They don't even wait till three o’clock either. Killing people in the morning. That ain't right.

221 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:30:05pm

re: #208 Gus

I just sent congratulations to the both of them. What a wonderful photo!

222 Destro  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:34:44pm

re: #214 Ghost of Tom Joad

Kids get slaughtered, but hey, some douche has his "man card."

If that's the case, then I can easily rationalize stealing from rich people so a poor kid can eat a decent meal.

When they sell guns like they sell beer then we have to realize we have a gun problem in this country.

223 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:35:42pm

re: #134 jaunte

Fischer is insane.

Yeah, Bubba and buddies, armed to the teeth with 30.06's, AK's, AR's, and the like. Screaming towards the "enemy" in their pickup truck, guns blazing. None of them saw the Javelin streaking towards them until they had just enough time to say in unison "Oh fuck!". Truck and bodies were recovered and given a proper burial.

224 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:42:39pm

re: #215 Ghost of Tom Joad

I think it was Chris Rock, maybe? Who did a small skit on crime and race in American. The gist of it was how black people crime is usually robbing somebody because they have no money. White people always did all the creepy shit, like kidnapping, mass murder, eating people, mail bombings etc.

I've noticed it as well. I was living with an ex-girlfriend, black woman, during the Colombine Massacre, and we were both home that day (day off from work for both of us) and while the news unfolded, she said, "I'll betcha it's a couple of crackers. Only you honkies do that kinda shit." This was ribbing on her part. Then of course, when Harris and Klebold were ID'd as the shooters, she said, "What'd I tell you?! People afraid of us black folks - they should be more afraid when they see some teen honky walking down the street! What is it with you white folks?!" Of course, like me, she had a gallows sense of humor, but also like me, she was appalled at what had just happened.

Sadly, I lost touch with her over the years. I wonder what she'd be thinking of this latest massacre?

225 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:48:09pm

re: #113 Gus

Man Card | Bushmaster

Adam L
Newtown, CT
Status: Revoked
Offense: Just Unmanly

Holy fucking bad taste, Bushmasterman!

226 Amory Blaine  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 12:52:48pm

Fucking outrageous!!!

227 Robert O.  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:20:13pm

I weep when I look at the picture of the 20 kids gunned down.

There are crazy people everywhere. Why can't they take out their rage at Alex Jones or at an NRA gathering, and leave innocent people alone!

228 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:03:36pm

re: #157 Destro

There have been on average 1 or 2 such attacks each year in China, generally by men with knives or hammers. Wikipedia lists 9 incidents beginning March 2010 to September 2011. The most recent attack is not included.

Counting the recent attack, at least 21 people (mostly kids) died and more than 100 were injured. At least three of the attackers were tried and executed, and another three committed suicide.

I know of only one shooting incident, when a security officer opened fire in a courthouse with an automatic weapon. Details are here.

There are many reasons for the attacks. Most of the attackers have been either mentally ill or distraught in some way. There are a lot of social pressures here on some people, especially men, because of rapid economic changes. I doubt the one-child policy has much to do with it.


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LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

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Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
Randall Gross
Galia Social - Warning Signs
facebook.comgaliasocial.bandcamp.comreverbnation.comOur previous In-Studio video:

8 hours, 29 minutes ago
Views: 78 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
The Vicious Fergushka
The Scientific Explanation of Why People Kill Each Other Over TVs on Black Friday
More: The Scientific Explanation of Why People Kill Each Other Over TVs on Black Friday What causes people to kick, shove and even stab each other on Black Friday? Each year there are reports of violence during the Black Friday ...

3 days, 15 hours ago
Views: 440 • Comments: 4
Tweets: 6 • Rating: 1
Skip Intro
Anti-Gay Hate Preacher Accidentally Tweets 4,000 Followers Cartoon Clip of Him ‘Confessing’ to Be a ‘Homosexual Sodomite’
Adam Reakes Promotes Truth That Starbucks Markets Semen Laced Lattes http://t.co/RY06dEEb0I— James David Manning (@DrJamesDManning) November 20, 2014

3 days, 17 hours ago
Views: 663 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Lumberhead
One Man Should Not Dictate Immigration Policy
Well played. You know, the more I mull over the Republican complaint about how immigration reform is being implemented, the more I sympathize with them. Public policy, especially on big, hot button issues like immigration shouldn't be made by one ...

4 days, 11 hours ago
Views: 451 • Comments: 6
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 7
teleskiguy
“Chelsea Hotel” performed by Tal Wilkenfeld
I first saw Austrailian bass player Tal Wilkenfeld play with Jeff Beck (not live, mind you. On YouTube) and was amazed at her skills and chops. She was only 20 when she scored that gig. She's coming into her own ...

6 days, 8 hours ago
Views: 315 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 5
FemNaziBitch
History of Laws Concerning Immigration and Naturalization in the United States -WIKI
The United States Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787. Article I, section 8, clause 4 of the Constitution expressly gives the United States Congress the power to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.[1] Pursuant to this power, Congress ...

6 days, 16 hours ago
Views: 436 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 3
MichaelJ
COMFORTABLY NUMB - Peahi Nov 12 on Vimeo
Channel angle of the Nov 12th swell at Peahi.

1 week, 3 days ago
Views: 578 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 2
Romantic Heretic
Money Makes Us Less Rational
Here's an interesting article on scientific studies that demonstrate how rationality and empathy break down is the presence of large amounts of money.

1 week, 5 days ago
Views: 786 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
 Frank says:

Help! I'm a rock!