Keith Jarrett Trio: Standards (1996 - Full Concert)

Jazz
Music • Views: 27,898

Discovered this amazing treat at YouTube - the full concert DVD of the Keith Jarrett Trio’s “Standards” concert on March 30, 1996 at Tokyo’s Hitomi Memorial Hall. This DVD is long out of print, and it’s one of the most beautiful and virtuosic sets this exceptional group has ever played. (I have a DVD copy but it got damaged somehow and won’t play any more.)

It’s been a tough few days, but music like this reminds us of the best human qualities: invention, improvisation, and humor, with a touch of chaos. Enjoy.

Jump to bottom

491 comments
1 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:14:44pm

Thank you for this. It's a wonderful treat.

2 Stanghazi  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:34:43pm

I'm going to take this moment to share what I just read on A. Sullivan's blog:

Andrew, my NRA card is in the trash this morning. I'm with Joe Scarborough--all my previous beliefs have been upended. Allowing such easy access to these military-style weapons is madness--how could I have not seen it before? And no one needs hollow point bullets and high-capacity magazines. I am a committed Republican. But if they can't do the sane thing here, they've lost me. And I know you don't know me, but if they've lost me, they are truly doomed. I couldn't give a damn right now about my taxes going up. (I have two six year old kids).

[Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...]

Maybe, just maybe the tide has turned. I'm so full of anguish that it took the deaths of little kids. But it is what it is.

3 Petero1818  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:39:27pm

re: #2 Stanghazi

I'm going to take this moment to share what I just read on A. Sullivan's blog:

[Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...]

Maybe, just maybe the tide has turned. I'm so full of anguish that it took the deaths of little kids. But it is what it is.

There are certainly some indications from the public and some GOP politicians that the tide has turned for some. But my guess is things are pretty raw right now and even many of those conservatives that are questioning their beliefs now will retreat as the wounds heal. I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't bet on it.

4 Stanghazi  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:43:42pm

Its a get-a-grip moment in US history.

I feel so bad that the dead of Aurora failed to turn the tide. Imagine how their families feel?

And if we blow it, well, then we deserve it.

5 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:45:42pm

re: #2 Stanghazi

I'm going to take this moment to share what I just read on A. Sullivan's blog:

[Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...]

Maybe, just maybe the tide has turned. I'm so full of anguish that it took the deaths of little kids. But it is what it is.

6 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:53:12pm
7 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:56:23pm


8 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 6:57:19pm

re: #7 Gus

[Embedded content]

Well, both sides are moving towards each other on the numbers. That's a good thing.

9 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:05:22pm

re: #8 Dark_Falcon

Well, both sides are moving towards each other on the numbers. That's a good thing.

Moving the threshold to 400K is a pretty big compromise. There was talk of 500K and others have mulled 1 mil.

10 Interesting Times  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:07:18pm

re: #9 Gus

Moving the threshold to 400K is a pretty big compromise. There was talk of 500K and others have mulled 1 mil.

It doesn't matter one whit if the GOPers, as usual, insist on a pound of food-stamp, social security, and medicaid flesh as payback. Oh, and defunding Planned Parenthood/NPR/PBS etc etc etc.

11 TedStriker  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:08:39pm

re: #5 Gus

[Embedded content]

Unfortunately, I'd have to say to the President that the politics will be hard on this, because so many gun nuts will take any steps to regulate gun purchase and ownership as a personal affront to them; that's why what LaPierre has been saying has helped to drive gun sales through the roof the past four years.

The really-out-there gun nuts, either by omission or commission, really must think that incidents like Newtown and Aurora are "acceptable losses", all so they can continue to purchase and keep their precious "black rifles" (which, IMO, are really useless for just about any civilian use, aside from maybe showing it off at the range).

AR-pattern rifles really have become the erect, glistening penises of the 21st-century gun nut.

12 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:11:02pm

re: #7 Gus

[Embedded content]

I'd like to see what part of the store is being given away with that as well. I know Boehner was setting things at $1mil, but he was still continuing to ask for severe cuts to "entitlements," as well as only granting a one-year extension on the debt limit.

13 Stanghazi  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:11:15pm

Teachers v. Congress

14 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:11:43pm

re: #11 TedStriker

Unfortunately, I'd have to say to the President that the politics will be hard on this, because so many gun nuts will take any steps to regulate gun purchase and ownership as a personal affront to them; that's why what LaPierre has been saying has helped to drive gun sales through the roof the past four years.

The really-out-there gun nuts, either by omission or commission, really must think that incidents like Newtown and Aurora are "acceptable losses", all so they can continue to purchase and keep their precious "black rifles" (which, IMO, are really useless for just about any civilian use, aside from maybe the range).

AR-pattern rifles really have become the erect, glistening penises of the 21st-century gun nut.

I was watching a video earlier of some jerks hunting a coyote with an AR-15. Seriously? It's a freaking semi-automatic so it's constant repeated fire going after the poor thing. I never heard of such a thing. Back when I was growing up it was either lever or bolt action. My point is that even for hunting it's kind of unethical.

15 TedStriker  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:15:03pm

re: #14 Gus

I was watching a video earlier of some jerks hunting a coyote with an AR-15. Seriously? It's a freaking semi-automatic so it's constant repeated fire going after the poor thing. I never heard of such a thing. Back when I was growing up it was either lever or bolt action. My point is that even for hunting it's kind of unethical.

My guess is that they're probably the same types who pay big bucks for "canned hunts".

No brains, no ethics, no balls.

16 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:20:08pm

re: #15 TedStriker

My guess is that they're probably the same types who pay big bucks for "canned hunts".

No brains, no ethics, no balls.

I hadn't realized that hunting with these types of semi-automatics was so popular now. Should have expected it though. I heard some states are allowing people to go hunting with silencers. So basically now if you go hunting you're going to be around a lot hunters looking like they're geared up to kill people.

17 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:20:30pm

So yeah, I found the White House proposal, and I'm not impressed:

Obama Makes Boehner A New Offer

The details, via a source familiar with the negotiations, include: a movement on revenue demands to $1.2 trillion from an initial $1.6 trillion, a permanent extension of Bush-era tax rates for incomes less than $400,000 (Obama initially set the threshold at $250,000), $1.2 trillion in spending cuts, a "fast track process" for corporate and individual tax reform once the new Congress convenes, permanent extension of tax extenders and the alternative minimum tax, an extension of unemployment benefits set to expire at the end of the year, additional stimulus in the form of infrastructure spending and a two-year debt limit increase.

The White House proposal would also allow the payroll tax cut to expire, and call for $130 billion in savings from Social Security benefits by adjusting the program's inflation index. The offer would include protections for the most vulnerable recipients, the person said.

It's hard not to see Obama falling back into bad habits, pulling Boehner's ass out of the fire by trying to meet him in the middle, knowing that he's gonna get nothing in return and just have to listen to them scream for the next two years that he's spending the country over the cliff.

18 TedStriker  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:21:40pm

re: #15 TedStriker

My guess is that they're probably the same types who pay big bucks for "canned hunts".

No brains, no ethics, no balls.

And let me say this: I know hunters and they would never use a "black rifle", because there's no sport or skill in pumping the trigger at your prey like that.

Also, just because I don't think that AR-pattern rifles have many (if any) good civilian uses, it doesn't mean that I wouldn't send a few rounds downrange with one for target shooting if given the chance (and I work with at least one person who owns one).

But I wouldn't ever buy one.

19 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:22:47pm

Man, I keep seeing "we need general mental health screening, not gun control" articles.

Think about the sheer scale of that endeavor. I mean, millions and millions of kids that fit the vague "could be a shooter" profile--depressed, angry, male, socially marginalized--and there's no secondary set of categories to filter them. And then what? Forced treatment? What kind of treatment? At least one operating theory is that several school shooters were on medications that caused aggression. If you stick to talk therapy and life skills, how do you craft a standardized program? How do you force compliance from parents and the suspected kids? How do you not make the depressed/angry/marginal trifecta worse by laying such a damning label on them? And who's paying for it all?

I mean, I'm all for a better mental health apparatus, and a would love to see a cultural change regarding helping people get assistance rather than be ashamed, but this is just...over the top.

20 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:27:41pm

re: #15 TedStriker

My guess is that they're probably the same types who pay big bucks for "canned hunts".

No brains, no ethics, no balls.

Tom Cougar Hunt $4950
Terms: 50% Deposit, 50% Before The Hunt Begins, No Guarantee On This Hunt

Guaranteed Tom Hunt $6550
Terms of Guarantee: 50% Refund If No Shot Opportunity During This Hunt

21 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:28:06pm

Larry Pratt, Exec. Director of Gun Owners of America, tonight on "Hardball":

we are “less free without automatic rifles,” and need to stay prepared.

“To take on our government. [And this] government has gone overboard.”
He continued that it’s time to take action “when elections are stolen.”[Link: www.salon.com...]

22 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:29:20pm

re: #21 jaunte

Larry Pratt, Exec. Director of Gun Owners of America, tonight on "Hardball":

Can anyone remember suggestions in '00 that we needed to "take action"?

23 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:29:24pm

re: #21 jaunte

The far right in a nutcase, er, shell.

24 Interesting Times  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:30:58pm

re: #17 Targetpractice

It's hard not to see Obama falling back into bad habits, pulling Boehner's ass out of the fire by trying to meet him in the middle, knowing that he's gonna get nothing in return and just have to listen to them scream for the next two years that he's spending the country over the cliff.

Have I mentioned how much I despise that weeping, orange waste of skin, and how (if humanity is around long enough for further history books), he'll go down as the most destructive and useless speaker ever?

25 Petero1818  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:31:39pm

re: #22 Targetpractice

Can anyone remember suggestions in '00 that we needed to "take action"?

Columbine in 99 so calls for taking action in 2000 seems possible.

26 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:31:44pm

Larry Pratt and his confederates deserve all the scorn, disdain, mockery, sneers, taunts and contempt it's possible for 300 million people to muster.

27 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:33:04pm

re: #26 jaunte

Larry Pratt and his confederates deserve all the scorn, disdain, mockery, sneers, taunts and contempt it's possible for 300 million people to muster.

You forgot "hurled lumps of cat feces."

28 kirkspencer  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:34:28pm

re: #19 The Ghost of a Flea

Man, I keep seeing "we need general mental health screening, not gun control" articles.

Think about the sheer scale of that endeavor. I mean, millions and millions of kids that fit the vague "could be a shooter" profile--depressed, angry, male, socially marginalized--and there's no secondary set of categories to filter them. And then what? Forced treatment? What kind of treatment? At least one operating theory is that several school shooters were on medications that caused aggression. If you stick to talk therapy and life skills, how do you craft a standardized program? How do you force compliance from parents and the suspected kids? How do you not make the depressed/angry/marginal trifecta worse by laying such a damning label on them? And who's paying for it all?

I mean, I'm all for a better mental health apparatus, and a would love to see a cultural change regarding helping people get assistance rather than be ashamed, but this is just...over the top.

Actually it's funnier. Stop and think about it. Everybody with access to a firearm, mandatory mental exam; and by implication treatment as well as denial of weapons.

Or, just as funny, health care for everyone who wants a firearm. Obamaguns?

29 dragonath  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:35:21pm

re: #24 Interesting Times

You know, that puts another perspective on it. What if... Obama's bailing out Boehner because he's the most incompetent Speaker of the House the Republicans could possibly have?

...

Nahhh

30 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:36:16pm

Husky photo bombs lab.

31 bratwurst  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:38:45pm

Let's hear some good old fashioned common sense from a real live conservative:

32 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:40:13pm

re: #31 bratwurst

The cafeteria ladies will still have their crew-served chemical weapons.

33 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:48:59pm

Liveleak. Populated by wingnut knuckle draggers.

34 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:49:05pm

re: #22 Targetpractice

Can anyone remember suggestions in '00 that we needed to "take action"?

The GOA is so out there the NRA has to call "bullshit!" on them regularly. Larry Pratt is openly anti-government and seriously unhinged.

35 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:50:02pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

The GOA is so out there the NRA has to call "bullshit!" on them regularly. Larry Pratt is openly anti-government and seriously unhinged.

Uh...
So is the NRA.

36 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:51:24pm

re: #17 Targetpractice

So yeah, I found the White House proposal, and I'm not impressed:

Obama Makes Boehner A New Offer

It's hard not to see Obama falling back into bad habits, pulling Boehner's ass out of the fire by trying to meet him in the middle, knowing that he's gonna get nothing in return and just have to listen to them scream for the next two years that he's spending the country over the cliff.

So the fact that the two sides are actively trying to come to terms is a bad thing to you?

37 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:52:50pm

re: #33 Gus

Liveleak. Populated by wingnut knuckle draggers.

I don't get it.

38 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:53:38pm

re: #37 Varek Raith

I don't get it.

Oh...
What are they, fucking 12???

39 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:54:32pm

re: #38 Varek Raith

Oh...
What are they, fucking 12???

Liveleak.

40 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:54:36pm

re: #35 Varek Raith

Uh...
So is the NRA.

I've had my quarrels with the NRA, but the GOA has every problem the NRA has, plus several more and all of those problems are worse in degree.

I fully expect Chris Matthews to chopblock Larry Pratt into next week.

41 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:55:51pm

Derp derp, you can do the same with this signature!
[Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

Derp derp!

42 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:57:23pm

re: #38 Varek Raith

Oh...
What are they, fucking 12???

They are twelve years old mentally, and they've no experience at fucking, because no women are interested in them.

43 Varek Raith  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:58:36pm

My signature looks like spaghetti.

44 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:59:27pm

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

So the fact that the two sides are actively trying to come to terms is a bad thing to you?

Making any sort of concessions when there's no guarantee that Boehner can bring the votes to the table just means that when the whole thing falls apart, Obama gets no credit for standing firm and instead gets a lot of blame for agreeing to terms that Republicans are gonna latch onto down the line.

45 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:03:03pm

re: #44 Targetpractice

Making any sort of concessions when there's no guarantee that Boehner can bring the votes to the table just means that when the whole thing falls apart, Obama gets no credit for standing firm and instead gets a lot of blame for agreeing to terms that Republicans are gonna latch onto down the line.

Only if things fail. If Obama and Boehner pull it off, then it'll have been worth it.

46 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:03:43pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

Only if things fail. If Obama and Boehner pull it off, then it'll have been worth it.

Which is why the grand 10:1 deal passed with no problem, right?

47 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:05:25pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

Which is why the grand 10:1 deal passed with no problem, right?

We gotta try.

48 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:06:32pm

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

We gotta try.

We did try. The Republican loonies scuttled it. I have no more faith that they'll go along with it this time.

49 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:21:11pm

Bill Moyers: Toys Better Regulated Than Guns

Vimeo
50 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:28:31pm

re: #49 Gus

The NRA; enabler of terrorists.

51 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:28:34pm

re: #49 Gus

Bill Moyers: Toys Better Regulated Than Guns

[Embedded content]

Was thinking about that earlier, the constant refrain whenever gun control is brought up about the dangers of cars and drunk drivers. And the first thing that popped out in my mind is that we actually take more steps to not only prevent deaths by automobiles, but we also take steps to hold people responsible when they happen. If you had to carry liability insurance on every gun you owned, or your gun being used in the commission of a crime putting your on ass on the line for murder, would we take gun crime more seriously?

52 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:31:28pm

re: #49 Gus

Bill Moyers: Toys Better Regulated Than Guns

[Embedded content]

That really isn't true. Guns are subject to strict limits and a new design has to be run by the ATF before it can be produced at all. Manufactures of guns can, like toymakers, be sued if their product hurts someone due to a defect. It's not a unregulated firearms marketplace, not at all.

53 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:32:36pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

That really isn't true. Guns are subject to strict limits and a new design has to be run by the ATF before it can be produced at all. Manufactures of guns can, like toymakers, be sued if their product hurts someone due to a defect. It's not a unregulated firearms marketplace, not at all.

Are there federal laws shielding toymakers from being sued if their products are used in the commission of a crime?

54 engineer cat  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:33:45pm

will gum control keep people from sticking it under movie theatre seats?

55 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:36:12pm

re: #53 Targetpractice

Are there federal laws shielding toymakers from being sued if their products are used in the commission of a crime?

I've never heard of such a lawsuit. Gun makers got such a law due to a torrent of junk lawsuits that were simply intended to cost them money. GM isn't liable if someone uses one of its SUVs to run over someone else on purpose.

56 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:37:26pm

re: #55 Dark_Falcon

I've never heard of such a lawsuit. Gun makers got such a law due to a torrent of junk lawsuits that were simply intended to cost them money. GM isn't liable if someone uses one of its SUVs to run over someone else on purpose.

"Junk lawsuits"?

57 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:38:15pm

10 Most Dangerous Toys of 2011

Sword Fighting Jack Sparrow
This Jack Sparrow action figure is armed with a 4 1/2”-long rigid plastic sword that thrusts in an upward motion at the push of a lever. This poses a serious potential for eye and other impact injuries. The manufacturer failed to provide any warnings about this risk on the toy’s packaging.

58 engineer cat  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:40:42pm

re: #53 Targetpractice

Are there federal laws shielding toymakers from being sued if their products are used in the commission of a crime?

only if hamsters are involved

59 Henchman 25  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:41:43pm

Cars and knives are not comparable to guns.

Cars were created as a method of transportation.
Knives were created as a cutting tool.
Guns were created to kill the intended target.

60 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:41:54pm

re: #56 Targetpractice

"Junk lawsuits"?

A 'junk lawsuit' is a legally dubious lawsuit filed solely to bleed the defendant by forcing them to pay to defend themselves or a dubious lawsuit filed to try to gain a quick settlement for injuries (physical or otherwise) that the plaintiff did not actually suffer.

61 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:43:48pm

re: #57 jaunte

10 Most Dangerous Toys of 2011

Do keep in mind that that page is from a law firm trolling for clients. I'm just saying...

62 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:43:53pm

I've been thinking all day about selling my AR. I do kind of like it, but the whole national head-check we've been doing since Friday has me wondering, just what the F do I own it for? I'm not ever going to be a first responder, and I wasn't suited for the military in the first place. I don't have the time or funds to go to any skills training schools. I could use the money, too.

I'm not part of the solution right now, and I don't even want to feel even a little bit like I'm part of the problem.

63 Petero1818  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:46:18pm

re: #62 Pawn of the Oppressor

I've been thinking all day about selling my AR. I do kind of like it, but the whole national head-check we've been doing since Friday has me wondering, just what the F do I own it for? I'm not ever going to be a first responder, and I wasn't suited for the military in the first place. I don't have the time or funds to go to any skills training schools. I could use the money, too.

I'm not part of the solution right now, and I don't even want to feel even a little bit like I'm part of the problem.

Can I ask why you bought it in the first place?

64 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:46:33pm

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

True, but the point is, plenty of manufacturers get sued for making products that can hurt people despite their being used contrary to the manufacturers intent.

65 engineer cat  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:46:39pm

re: #59 Henchman 25

Cars and knives are not comparable to guns.

Cars were created as a method of transportation.
Knives were created as a cutting tool.
Guns were created to kill the intended target.

well, sometimes you end up arguing this with people who think that god accepted "am i my brother's keeper?" as a valid and reasonable defense

67 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:54:27pm

re: #64 jaunte

True, but the point is, plenty of manufacturers get sued for making products that can hurt people despite their being used contrary to the manufacturers intent.

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act was passed by the U.S. Senate on July 29, 2005, by a vote of 65-31. On October 20, 2005, it was passed by the House of Representatives 283 in favor and 144 opposed. It was signed into law on October 26, 2005, by President George W. Bush and became Public Law 109-92.

The purpose of the act is to prevent firearms manufacturers and dealers from being held liable for crimes committed with their products. However, both manufacturers and dealers can still be held liable for damages resulting from defective products, breach of contract, criminal misconduct, and other actions for which they are directly responsible.

Frankly, I think they should be open to lawsuits for crimes committed. If only to harass them some. To date, Bushmaster and neither the NRA have made a statement about Newtown. That's weird.

68 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:55:48pm

re: #64 jaunte

True, but the point is, plenty of manufacturers get sued for making products that can hurt people despite their being used contrary to the manufacturers intent.

But that is in response to the product functioning in a way it should not. To call specific features of a product that do not cause or contribute to malfunctions "product defects" is dishonest and not what product liability law was intended to cover.

If Springfield Armory produces a pocket pistol that is defect free and in compliance with the law, then sells it a honest dealer who also follows the law when he sells it to a legal customer, should Springfield be held liable if 2 years after the sale the man who bought the pistol uses it to kill his spouse who he had found out was cheating him?

69 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:56:07pm

re: #67 Gus

damages resulting from defective products

Murders resulting from a rifle "intended for hunting" would seem to be a defect.

70 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:57:32pm

re: #69 jaunte

Murders resulting from a rifle "intended for hunting" would seem to be a defect.

Would a murder with a bow and arrow intended for target archery also be a "defect"?

71 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:57:44pm

And remember. Just like the 14th Amendment doesn't mention gays. The 2nd Amendment only mentions "a well regulated militia." It does not mention hunting, sport shooting, self defense, etc. It only specifies that citizens have a right to carry arms must be maintained for a "well regulated militia."

Bwahahahaha!

72 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:57:44pm

re: #67 Gus

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act

Frankly, I think they should be open to lawsuits for crimes committed. If only to harass them some. To date, Bushmaster and neither the NRA have made a statement about Newtown. That's weird.

Not really, consider the bad press the NRA got after posting an otherwise innocuous tweet just hours after the Aurora shooting.

73 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:58:21pm

re: #72 Targetpractice

Not really, consider the bad press the NRA got after posting an otherwise innocuous tweet just hours after the Aurora shooting.

It's weird because they just can't do it.

74 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:58:36pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

I think they call that a "Nugent."

75 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:00:00pm

Here's a Bushmaster dealer in Montana.

MONTANA ORDNANCE AND SUPPLY

Ordinance!

[Banjo music]

76 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:00:01pm

re: #67 Gus

To date, Bushmaster and neither the NRA have made a statement about Newtown. That's weird.

Taking cover.

Over the years the N.R.A. has perfected its strategy for responding to mass shootings: Lie low at first, then slow-roll any legislative push for a response.

77 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:00:06pm

re: #68 Dark_Falcon

But that is in response to the product functioning in a way it should not. To call specific features of a product that do not cause or contribute to malfunctions "product defects" is dishonest and not what product liability law was intended to cover.

If Springfield Armory produces a pocket pistol that is defect free and in compliance with the law, then sells it a honest dealer who also follows the law when he sells it to a legal customer, should Springfield be held liable if 2 years after the sale the man who bought the pistol uses it to kill his spouse who he had found out was cheating him?

How about in the scenario where the dealer sells it at a gun show without bothering to do a background check? It's a perfectly legal sale, as it complies with laws concerning private sales, and the dealer says he had no reason to believe the guy was up to no good. The pocket pistol then gets used to hold up a liquor store and two people get killed.

78 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:00:42pm

The Ultimate Dog Shaming.

Youtube Video
79 dragonath  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:03:43pm

re: #67 Gus 802

I remember seeing things like that "Protection of Lawful Commerce Act" pass at the time and wondering if Bush was actively trying to make things worse.

It was almost impossible to keep up with all of it.

80 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:05:22pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

How about in the scenario where the dealer sells it at a gun show without bothering to do a background check? It's a perfectly legal sale, as it complies with laws concerning private sales, and the dealer says he had no reason to believe the guy was up to no good. The pocket pistol then gets used to hold up a liquor store and two people get killed.

In that case the dealer likely is liable, but the manufacturer would not be unless it had sold it to the dealer and had a reason to believe he would not follow the law.

One thing to note is that "dealer" refers to someone holding a Type 1 Federal Firearms License (FFL). All FFL holders must keep a record of all guns they take ownership of and all guns that they sell. Type 1 FFL holders must also use the the instant check system called NICS to verify that the buyer is lawfully allowed to own a firearm. This is true even at a gun show.

81 Targetpractice  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:14:57pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

In that case the dealer likely is liable, but the manufacturer would not be unless it had sold it to the dealer and had a reason to believe he would not follow the law.

One thing to note is that "dealer" refers to someone holding a Type 1 Federal Firearms License (FFL). All FFL holders must keep a record of all guns they take ownership of and all guns that they sell. Type 1 FFL holders must also use the the instant check system called NICS to verify that the buyer is lawfully allowed to own a firearm. This is true even at a gun show.

Not if I'm a private seller, even if I call myself a "dealer." So long as I'm selling this stuff from me to someone else, then I'm not required to do a background check or fill out any paperwork. Only time my ass might be on the line is if I suspect that the other guy would not otherwise pass a background check and would be legally barred from owning a gun. It's the same loophole the straw purchasers in the F&F case used, paying guys who'd have no problem passing the background check to buy the guns, then "sell" them to cartel buyers who funneled them back to Mexico.

82 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:15:46pm

re: #79 dragonath

I remember seeing things like that "Protection of Lawful Commerce Act" pass at the time and wondering if Bush was actively trying to make things worse.

It was almost impossible to keep up with all of it.

It wasn't done on principal. They might tell us as such but I ain't buying. It was merely for CYA. OK, I can live with it but let's add a new requirement of adding liability insurance requirement to be put in a victims fund program.

Last week I was reading about the Amish school shooting incident. Yeah, there were a few survivors. One of them survived. She can't walk or talk and is confined to a wheelchair. She's said to recognize some faces. It's not only the dead.

83 engineer cat  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:15:57pm

re: #66 dragonath

IBM: Computers Will See, Hear, Taste, Smell and Touch in 5 Years

but will they get slapped for it?

84 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:18:53pm

re: #81 Targetpractice

Not if I'm a private seller, even if I call myself a "dealer." So long as I'm selling this stuff from me to someone else, then I'm not required to do a background check or fill out any paperwork. Only time my ass might be on the line is if I suspect that the other guy would not otherwise pass a background check and would be legally barred from owning a gun. It's the same loophole the straw purchasers in the F&F case used, paying guys who'd have no problem passing the background check to buy the guns, then "sell" them to cartel buyers who funneled them back to Mexico.

There are limits to private sales and non-FFL holders can face prison time for selling guns as a commercial enterprise.

The straw buyers in Fast & Furious were actually in a different category, since they were acting as direct agents of the cartels, who had supplied the monies used to purchase the guns. Their actions were illegal right from the get-go.

85 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:20:39pm

Sound the alarm bells!

Image: boehner-Obama-happy-shake-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg

86 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:20:55pm

"We will not compromise our moral or ethical principles."
-- Freedom Group, makers of Bushmaster Rifles

In 2004, Bushmaster settled a lawsuit brought by families of the Beltway victims, which alleged that the company failed to take precautions to ensure that its guns did not fall into the hands of criminals.
The company settled the suit for $500,000, but said the settlement was not an admission of culpability.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

87 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:30:54pm

re: #86 jaunte

"We will not compromise our moral or ethical principles."
-- Freedom Group, makers of Bushmaster Rifles

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act does not block that kind of lawsuit. This is because it didn't argue that "a gun with those (lawful) featured should not have been produces", instead it argued that the company was not taking the proper standard of care to ensure its firearms were not sold to criminals. "Due care" is a different type of suit than a product liability suit.

88 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:30:55pm
89 jaunte  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:32:16pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

Legally, they're in the clear. Their morals and ethics are another story.

90 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:33:44pm

re: #89 jaunte

Legally, they're in the clear. Their morals and ethics are another story.

They've got the skull and cross bones on their front page graphic. Typically, I don't associate that with hunting but with, people.

91 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:34:04pm

re: #63 Petero1818

Can I ask why you bought it in the first place?

It's been a while... I don't typically do things for just one reason... In no particular order:

- I knew nothing about them, but they were popular in my circle of "gun friends" (almost entirely ex-.mil) and I was wondering what the fuss was about.

- I was into collecting military rifles at the time and I had just been through ownership of a couple of AK clones. I found that even nice AKs basically sucked as rifles, so I wanted to try an alternative. My "collection" right now has a couple of WW2-era examples, and I had assembled, tried, and sold a couple of larger-caliber 1950s and 60s-era military rifle clones. I was curious about more modern things.

- I thought it would be good to be familiar with our country's military equipment (well-regulated militia and all that). Plus, if/when I joined the .mil, as I was considering at the time, I'd have a leg up on familiarity in training.

- Concurrent with the above, I figured if the world really did go to hell for any reason, it would be good to have the common national rifle available. Big nasty Gulf hurricane, riot, extended power outage, whatever (and don't tell me people won't be eating each other in two weeks if we ever lose the national power grid), if I needed to defend myself or my community with a rifle for *any* reason it was better to have the "good guy" rifle on hand.

- I felt pretty sure at the time that a ban was incoming if Barry got elected, so if I ever wanted to own one, the time was then (2007ish) before all the other gun nuts drove up the demand pre-election. :P

- My plan was to make actual use of this thing for what it is, and train with it in skill & drill classes, which are often fun and challenging (I have since realized that I am not cop or military material, and I don't have the money or time to learn any of those skills).

- They're light, handy, and frankly fun to target shoot with. I like shooting as an occasional pastime, and, well, it is a gun. It's a little bit badass too... In which I plead the F-I-F to being a male.

92 Lidane  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:47:56pm

Don't know if this was talked about at all, but this clip of Joe Scarborough is worth watching:

[Link: video.msnbc.msn.com...]

93 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:49:02pm
94 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:49:42pm

re: #81 Targetpractice

Not if I'm a private seller, even if I call myself a "dealer." So long as I'm selling this stuff from me to someone else, then I'm not required to do a background check or fill out any paperwork.

Depends on the State. In California the only time a face to face sale is allowed to proceed without going through a licensed FFL, with background check and ten day waiting period, is for C&R long guns that are over 50 years old.

95 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:54:25pm

In the end. I think they wrote the constitution for people to come up with excuses.

//

96 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:55:23pm

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

97 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:06:21pm

re: #78 Charles Johnson

Chihuahua puppy vs. Pitbull and Cat.

Youtube Video
98 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:08:54pm

re: #62 Pawn of the Oppressor

I've been thinking all day about selling my AR. I do kind of like it, but the whole national head-check we've been doing since Friday has me wondering, just what the F do I own it for? I'm not ever going to be a first responder, and I wasn't suited for the military in the first place. I don't have the time or funds to go to any skills training schools. I could use the money, too.

I'm not part of the solution right now, and I don't even want to feel even a little bit like I'm part of the problem.

Here's the tricky thing. If you sell it right now, what are the odds that the new owner ends up being a bigger part of the problem?

99 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:12:26pm

re: #98 goddamnedfrank

Here's the tricky thing. If you sell it right now, what are the odds that the new owner ends up being a bigger part of the problem?

I have a particular marketplace in mind with (mostly) decent, serious, non-crazy people. LEO and .mil types mainly, who own these sorts of things for off-the-clock training related to their day job.

100 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:13:01pm

re: #98 goddamnedfrank

Here's the tricky thing. If you sell it right now, what are the odds that the new owner ends up being a bigger part of the problem?

Got a pistol and a shotgun. Seriously considering getting rid of at least one of them if there is a buyback anytime soon.

101 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:19:17pm

re: #100 Kragar

Got a pistol and a shotgun. Seriously considering getting rid of at least one of them if there is a buyback anytime soon.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

102 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:20:55pm

re: #93 Gus

Pre-Newtown Guns & Ammo article boasts of banner year for gun sales...

Industry Report: All-Time High Gun Sales Recorded in November

The FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) reported 2,006,919 background checks in November, breaking the previous record of 1,862,327 set in December 2011. As of Nov. 30, the FBI had conducted 16,808,538 background checks—also an all-time high.

According the FBI, the number of annual background checks has increased since 2002, when a total of 8,454,322 background checks were recorded.

So two million new gun sales November alone and most likely more the 18,000,000 for the entire year? Firearms sales are up by more than 100% (doubled) since 2002, but people are still fighting for the status quo of ever more and better (more deadly) guns?

The lunatics have taken over the asylum when it comes to gun issues in this country. Their paranoid and frankly delusional fantasy thinking should be pointed out for what it really is in no uncertain terms. Maintaining the status quo is no longer a morally acceptable option, if it ever was to begin with it certainly is not now.

103 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:25:39pm

re: #102 watching you tiny alien kittens are

They've sold millions of AR-15s. Which leaves me wondering.

104 Mich-again  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:30:19pm

I have quieted most the FB gun nuts just by pointing out that rights come with responsibilities and people who own weapons need to secure them properly.

105 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:30:46pm

re: #101 Gus

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Mine have been sitting in the closet for the last 6 years, except for their annual maintenance just to clean up and rust and apply a fresh coat of oil.

I need to see about getting the ammo out of the house at least. Its 10 years old at least.

106 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:34:21pm

Tim Scott: Christians Are a Minority under Assault

Tim Scott, who is set to replace Jim DeMint in the Senate, got his start in politics when he was elected in 1996 to the Charleston County Council. One year later, according to his 2010 campaign website, “he placed a plaque of the Ten Commandments outside council offices to show his support for the Ten Commandments as a guide for conduct, especially within the county chambers.”

The city was promptly sued for this blatant violation of the First Amendment. By 1998, Scott’s colleagues had decided to remove his display and settle the lawsuit. When challenged on why he was wasting taxpayer dollars, Scott replied that “whatever it costs in the pursuit of this goal is worth it.”

Scott’s unconstitutional grandstanding as a county councilmember made him a favorite of the Christian right in South Carolina and put him on the track that he’s followed ever since. Scott returned to his roots while addressing a Tea Party rally in January, hosted by Ralph Reed’s Faith and Freedom Coalition, ahead of a GOP primary debate.

Scott claimed that the “greatest minority under assault today are Christians.” “No doubt about it,” he emphasized. (Note that Scott says 1995 in the video, but he misspoke – he was elected in 1996 and posted the display in 1997.)

107 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:37:22pm

I've spent a lot of time on the net this weekend reading lots of sites of all types. I'm amazed what I read. Even the comments on big sites like CNN got freaking ugly. I saw a face of America during one of the worst tragedies.
I saw the most heartbroken posters
I saw love and support
i saw evil in the shadows hiding but posting hate and shocking reactions.

People ask, ' How could this happen?'
I don't have an answer but I do know this..
Part of America has lost it's soul and heart..and humanity.

Friends and family have asked me why I'm leaving my career and friends to move out into the middle of fucking nowhere and starting a new life in a green acres kind of way. Pray for me..cause I'll be praying for you

108 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:37:25pm
109 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:43:40pm

re: #107 A Man for all Seasons

Friends and family have asked me why I'm leaving my career and friends to move out into the middle of fucking nowhere and starting a new life in a green acres kind of way.

I totally get it. My current dream real estate is a nice little bed and breakfast inn that's for sale right now in Stehekin, in Eastern Washington. It's a little community of less than 100 people at the north end of Lake Chelan. There are no roads there, the only way in or out is by boat or float plane. If I came into a sudden windfall I wouldn't even think twice about getting away from it all.

110 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:51:00pm

re: #109 goddamnedfrank

The rat race is over..The rats won..

111 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:55:23pm

re: #110 A Man for all Seasons

The rat race is over..The rats won..

King Rat

112 Mich-again  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:57:47pm

There is a sweet spot somewhere on the income versus work related stress curve. I think I'm pretty close.

113 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 10:59:02pm

Just couldn't resist any longer...

114 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:01:36pm

Thanks for identifying another shit eating bastard Bryan.

115 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:11:16pm

re: #114 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Thanks for identifying another shit eating bastard Bryan.

Meth scripture.

116 Gus  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:18:18pm
117 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:35:18pm
Guess what folks? Huckabee and Fischer are not alone. There are millions of evangelicals who believe the same thing. This is not heartless. It’s based on the biblical principle of reaping and sowing. - David Brody

Blood for the blood God, Skulls for the skull throne!

When the God you worship is a jealous, egotistical, petty, childish tyrant it is time to rethink your beliefs. If that was truly what God is like all he would deserve was our scorn, not our worship. Fischer/Brody/Huckabee don't want to know God. What they want is an angry magical sky persecutor who will punish all the people who don't live their lives according to their own twisted dogma.

118 Kragar  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 11:51:47pm

re: #117 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Khorne is an honorable pillar of the community compared to the whiny spiteful bitch Huckabee and Fischer worship.

119 researchok  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 12:17:54am

Morning, all

120 stabby  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 12:21:26am

I don't know why I'm so tired today. I spent much of the day napping, and I'm doing nothing tonight too.

But I'm enjoying the Keith Jerrett concert, so thank you for that, Charles.

121 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 12:30:12am

re: #2 Stanghazi

I'm going to take this moment to share what I just read on A. Sullivan's blog:

[Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...]

Maybe, just maybe the tide has turned. I'm so full of anguish that it took the deaths of little kids. But it is what it is.

That image of the kids being led from the shool is the moral equivalent of the photo of the naked girl running from the napalm attacks in Vietnam: a turning point in public opinion.

Politicians know they no longer fear the Wrath of the NRA if they stand up to them. And the RWNJs who are used to doubling down and ramping up the rhetoric are finding that nobody is willing to approve or even tolerate their BS talking points any more.

122 stabby  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 12:35:17am

What's the weird moaning humming along happening in this concert?
I turned the volume down because it was bothering me.

123 researchok  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:04:13am

re: #121 Sol Berdinowitz

That image of the kids being led from the shool is the moral equivalent of the photo of the naked girl running from the napalm attacks in Vietnam: a turning point in public opinion.

Politicians know they no longer fear the Wrath of the NRA if they stand up to them. And the RWNJs who are used to doubling down and ramping up the rhetoric are finding that nobody is willing to approve or even tolerate their BS talking points any more.

You have no idea how much I hope you are right.

But we'vs seen this before.

124 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:06:54am

re: #123 researchok

You have no idea how much I hope you are right.

But we'vs seen this before.

It is the timing (so close to Christmas) and the cumulative effect.

This sort of turning point is nothing rational, but we are already seeing politicians growing suddenly silent and even distancing themselves from the NRA, which is a first in our hitory.

125 researchok  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:10:14am

re: #124 Sol Berdinowitz

As they say, from your mouth to God's ear.

Some people find it easier to believe in polar shifts than culture shifts.

How sad is that?.

126 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:14:03am

The RWNJs are unwittingly playing right into it: all they know how to do is to double down ("Don't retreat, reload!") and ramp up the pro-gun rhetoric.

But it is starting to look like they have gone over Ideological Cliff, they are paddling their feet in thin air like Wiley Coyote before dropping to the canyon floor...

127 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:28:48am

re: #126 Sol Berdinowitz

The RWNJs are unwittingly playing right into it: all they know how to do is to double down ("Don't retreat, reload!") and ramp up the pro-gun rhetoric.

But it is starting to look like they have gone over Ideological Cliff, they are paddling their feet in thin air like Wiley Coyote before dropping to the canyon floor...

3:28AM here.

Sol, why are you up so late?

128 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:30:30am

I have a sinus infection and bronchitis so every time I lay down I have trouble breathing. That's my excuse.

So why are you up so late.

129 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:31:27am

re: #127 b_sharp

3:28AM here.

Sol, why are you up so late?

10:30am here in Germany, I slept in...

130 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:42:19am

re: #129 Sol Berdinowitz

10:30am here in Germany, I slept in...

Oh, you're in Germany. I thought you were in the US.

131 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:50:03am

Been expat since 1988.

I usually get a bit homesick around the Holidays, but this year, I feel less homesick for some reason...

132 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:53:03am

re: #131 Sol Berdinowitz

Been expat since 1988.

I usually get a bit homesick around the Holidays, but this year, I feel less homesick for some reason...

Yah, I wonder.

It's been a tough few years on the US.

133 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 1:58:31am

One advantage of being a US expat is that our culture is so all-pervasive, you never really lose touch of it. And given the things happening there, I am often glad to have a buffer zone. I keep up on events without being subject to the obsessive media feeding frenzies.

134 dragonath  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 2:01:19am

Over here, Deutsche Welle comes on at this hour...

135 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 2:04:47am

re: #133 Sol Berdinowitz

One advantage of being a US expat is that our culture is so all-pervasive, you never really lose touch of it. And given the things happening there, I am often glad to have a buffer zone. I keep up on events without being subject to the obsessive media feeding frenzies.

Unfortunately, Canada is right in the middle of that frenzy. Our culture is becoming more like that of the US all the time. That bone-head Harper is great at sneaking things in under the radar.

136 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 2:05:43am

Well, I'm going to go give sleeping another shot. Later.

137 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 2:22:04am

Love Jesus?

Grant:

I asked a guy why he skipped "under God" in the Pledge of allegience and he said he didnt believe in god so I punch him right in the face. Suspended for a week but worth it lol. love jesus

Zak:

cant belive they suspend you thats what obama has turned this country into tho. keep your faith

138 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 2:30:19am

re: #137 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Love Jesus?

Grant:

Zak:

these people have reached a dead end, they are just too brain dead to realize it

139 RadicalModerate  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 2:52:40am

Texas' batshit insane teahadist Governor does it again.
I know a few educators in the area - at every level from elementary school to college professors, and they - to a person - think that Perry is out of his damned mind.

Perry: School districts should decide on arming teachers

NORTH RICHLAND HILLS — Texas Gov. Rick Perry said Monday he supports letting local school districts decide whether letting teachers and administrators carry guns on campus is the best way to make schools safer.

Perry spoke to the Northeast Tarrant County Tea Party, addressing the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut that left 20 children and six adults dead inside their elementary school.
[...]
He said he believes local school districts should be afforded that right, and he supports expanding the places guns can be carried.

Meanwhile, just a few miles away from this loonfest:

'Kill list' naming teachers found outside Arlington school

140 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 2:55:29am

re: #139 RadicalModerate

Let these idiots keep advancing their NRA talking points...they have no idea of how isolated they are becoming.

Most important, a lot of politicians are starting to realize that they no longer have to cower in fear from the NRA or tacitly support its ideology.

141 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:10:41am

First DERP of the day

142 A Mom Anon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:12:15am

So maybe the bigger question is how to fight fear and hatred and win. Something is wrong on a really deep level and I think part of the problem is that it seems like the bad guys are winning. Because they are winning, a fair share of the time. It is very hard to make good choices and decisions when you are afraid and angry. It's also hard to see when you're being manipulated if you are pissed off and scared the world is ending. How do we get through the wall of nastiness and heal broken communities?

I'm under no illusion that we can all join hands and sing and unicorns can fart glitter and we can all live in a totally peaceful world. Not happening. But if America is really exceptional, then we should be able to do alot of different things to minimize this sort of horror and suffering. Would stronger and more compassionate communities alleviate much of the isolation, fear and anger that lies in the heart of violence? And where the hell do we start? How do you defeat the hatred that stokes fear and violence for profit? How can we provide enough safe haven for those who need to escape danger in their homes or on the street? How can we begin to actually change the culture to make violence more and more unacceptable?

I've jumped around from link to link on the internet over the last few days and read some just heartbreaking stories of lives changed by mental illness or other disabilities. It occurred to me that we should also be talking to families, caregivers and the people with the illness or disability and ask them what they need to be successful and happy. There's not alot of that happening, it has to. Having been an advocate for an autistic child who is now an adult I can tell you that no two families or people are the same, even those with the same diagnosis have very different needs. This is big, it's not going to be easy, not even a little. Sorry for the ramble, my heart is sad.

143 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:15:51am

re: #141 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

First DERP of the day

[Embedded content]

I always feel like a man after a good spanking...

144 A Mom Anon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:16:24am

re: #141 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

Um, it's kinda creepy that a grown man is fondly remembering being spanked by mommy. And sharing it when we never asked him to. That probably spills over into being really creepy, yes?

145 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:50:17am

Discouraging statistics, trying to push for semi-auto rifle restrictions almost seems pointless when you look at the numbers. We need to remind people that although the numbers of murders by rifle were not that high last year they involved many of the multiple shootings. Sigh...it seems strange to be reduced to arguing the "quality" of the murders rather than their total "quantity" but that is what we have to work with.

2011 statistics:
Total Murders: 12,644
Total by Firearm: 8,583 (67.88%)
Handguns: 6220 (49.19%)
Rifles: 323 (2.55%)
Shotguns: 356 (2.82%)
Other guns: 97 (0.77%)
Firearms, type not reported: 1,587 (12.55%)
Knives or cutting instruments: 1694 (13.40%)
Blunt objects: 496 (3.92%)
Hands, fists, feet, pushed: 728 (5.76%)
Poison: 5 (0.04%)
Explosives: 12 (0.09%)
Fire: 75 (0.59%)
Narcotics: 29 (0.23%)
Drowning: 15 (0.12%)
Strangulation: 85 (0.67%)
Asphyxiation: 89 (0.70%)
Other weapons or weapon type not reported: 853 (6.75%)

[Link: www.fbi.gov...]

P.S. I did the percentages myself so if they don't exactly add up to 100% don't blame the FBI, blame my rounding to two decimal places.

146 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:54:09am

re: #145 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Sigh...it seems strange to be reduced to arguing the "quality" of the murders rather than their total "quantity" but that is what we have to work with.

How about "quality"...i .e., did these people deserve to be killed?

/

147 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 4:57:21am

re: #141 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

148 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:00:12am

re: #141 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

First DERP of the day

Does he get his diapers from Vitter too?

149 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:12:25am

Fischer Derps that "War on Women" can be won with RWNJ's new seekrit weapon [deleted N Word]

150 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:14:09am

re: #147 watching you tiny alien kittens are

[Embedded content]

There is a difference between a spanking and a beating...but nuance is lost on goombahs like him.

151 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:14:18am

re: #146 Sol Berdinowitz

How about "quality"...i .e., did these people deserve to be killed?

/

I was thinking more of the "quality" of assault rifles being among the most favored weapons of mass murdering losers. None of those people deserved to die in whatever way they did, so it says nothing specifically about rifles to make that argument.

152 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:30:02am

re: #151 watching you tiny alien kittens are

I was thinking more of the "quality" of assault rifles being among the most favored weapons of mass murdering losers. None of those people deserved to die in whatever way they did, so it says nothing specifically about rifles to make that argument.

It was a sarcastic comment, relating to the justificaton given by people like Anders Breivik that these "leftist" kiddies deserved what they got.

153 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:32:22am

I do enjoy slapping Bryan's weak excuses for logic around...

154 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:39:19am


Geez, I NEVER got my kids an EZ Bake. That thing can reach hotter temps than my full-size Amana. (at least it did in the 1970's, don't know if Hasbro has fixed it)

155 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:40:43am

I had an EZ bake as a boy, and I did not turn out a raving homosexual, Bryan...

156 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:40:45am

Oh Noez!! The end is near!!

Image: 82948596.jpg

157 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:40:49am

Hmmm...there is something wrong with this comment besides bad philosophy but I just can't put my finger on what it is...

What if God were not real, well France certainly would be different than it is now; 63% of its people believe in God, 26% believe it might be a God , 10% believe in an Islamic God, and 31% are Atheist who need the imaginary existence of God in order for their belief to even exist. For Atheism to even be valid, an imaginary God must exist in the minds of others, if that imaginary God didnot exist, then Atheism would be imaginary.

I'm sure it will come to me sooner or later...

///

158 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:43:02am
159 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:47:02am

I used to rock the hell out of my baby sisters ezbake.

160 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:49:05am

re: #154 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

[Embedded content]


Geez, I NEVER got my kids an EZ Bake. That thing can reach hotter temps than my full-size Amana. (at least it did in the 1970's, don't know if Hasbro has fixed it)

I had one, it worked off a 100 (60?) watt light bulb as a heat source, so it took like 30-40 minutes to bake that single little-bitty cake over the bulb. When I say I had one it was more like I appropriated my sisters for occasional use for baking or "science" experiments like heating bugs and other interesting objects. ;)

161 darthstar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 5:59:11am

Mornin' all.

Math.
Image: 399318_515249975162685_557122270_n.jpg

162 darthstar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:01:01am

re: #154 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

[Embedded content]


Geez, I NEVER got my kids an EZ Bake. That thing can reach hotter temps than my full-size Amana. (at least it did in the 1970's, don't know if Hasbro has fixed it)

My sister had an EZ Bake oven when we were kids. I used it all the time with her. As a result, I'll be making persimmon cookies today for Xmas gifts.

163 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:03:42am

re: #158 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

164 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:04:02am

Some good news for a change:

NBC News' Richard Engel, Two Colleagues Freed From Syrian Captors

NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel and two members of his production team are free after five days of being held captive in Syria...Engel said he "believes the gunmen who kidnapped him and his crew in Syria were a Shiite militia group loyal to the Syrian government."

165 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:09:34am

re: #164 Interesting Times

Some good news for a change:

NBC News' Richard Engel, Two Colleagues Freed From Syrian Captors

That is great news.

166 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:10:46am

re: #141 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

First DERP of the day

Bryan Fischer @BryanJFischer
Newly-appointed U.S. senator Tim Scott says getting spanked by a loving mom helped him become man he is.

...one that pays women in spike-heeled black boots to whack him with a hairbrush?

167 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:14:04am

re: #164 Interesting Times

Some good news for a change:

NBC News' Richard Engel, Two Colleagues Freed From Syrian Captors

Good news, but I wonder how much NBC's kidnap insurance ended up paying out?

168 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:14:49am

re: #167 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Good news, but I wonder how much NBC's kidnap insurance ended up paying out?

Read the whole thing. He was freed during a battle, not because a ransom was paid:

"The prisoners were being moved to a new location in a vehicle when their captors ran into a checkpoint manned by members of the Ahrar al-Sham brigade, a Syrian rebel group. There was a confrontation and a firefight ensued. Two of the captors were killed, while an unknown number of others escaped, the network said. The NBC News crew was unharmed in the incident."

169 GunstarGreen  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:18:07am

re: #163 watching you tiny alien kittens are

[Embedded content]

The funny part is that they already made an EZBake oven for boys, it was called Creepy Crawlers.

170 Petero1818  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:21:53am

Count me as not surprised. I was looking at Faux News website this morning and found the following "shocking" news link:

College football player kicked off team for Obama tweet

Naturally I was curious so I moved to the article. Imagine what I found:

Alabama college football player booted from team over racist Obama tweet
Published December 18, 2012
Associated Press
FLORENCE, Ala. – The University of North Alabama says a walk-on football player is off the team after sending a racist tweet about President Barack Obama.
The university said coaches made the move after Bradley Patterson described Obama with a racial slur while complaining that the president's speech about the Connecticut school massacre pre-empted an NFL game Sunday night.

171 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:23:09am

re: #168 Interesting Times

And Engel's claiming that it was a pro-Assad Shi'ite group that took him, conducted mock executions, and was hoping to swap him for Iranian and Assad loyalists who were being held by the rebels.

It also points out how dangerous it is to be a reporter in highly unstable parts of the world, where being a journalist puts a bullseye on you and could subject you to being targeted by regimes, rogues, and terror groups. Engel will probably be right back in the thick of it before long although he'll probably get a well deserved break.

As it is, the Syrian civil war isn't going anywhere and the regime is locked in a bitter and bloody struggle that continues to ring up a horrific butchers bill.

172 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:26:36am

re: #171 lawhawk

And Engel's claiming that it was a pro-Assad Shi'ite group that took him, conducted mock executions, and was hoping to swap him for Iranian and Assad loyalists who were being held by the rebels.

It also points out how dangerous it is to be a reporter in highly unstable parts of the world, where being a journalist puts a bullseye on you and could subject you to being targeted by regimes, rogues, and terror groups. Engel will probably be right back in the thick of it before long although he'll probably get a well deserved break.

As it is, the Syrian civil war isn't going anywhere and the regime is locked in a bitter and bloody struggle that continues to ring up a horrific butchers bill.

If he had only been properly armed and trained, er, ah....forget it.

173 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:28:06am

re: #158 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

Fischer's tweets are low-hanging fruit(cake) crazy. Complaining about EZBake ovens? Really? Does he not realize how many chefs are men? Or that they got a passion to do so from an early age by playing with that kind of stuff as a kid?

To him, it's a sign of something wrong... probably because it flips gender stereotypes and roles on their head.

174 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:29:30am

Remember the massive head assplosions over the ad showing a mom painting her son's toenails?

175 darthstar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:33:55am
176 darthstar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:39:10am
177 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:40:16am
178 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:41:51am

re: #177 lawhawk

I question the timing...

///

179 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:44:42am

This guy's business is doomed, he might as well just go to court and change his name...

Bryan Fischer
@TheBryanFischer

Creator of dope sounds. [Link: www.BryanFischerMusic.com...]

Long Beach, CA · [Link: www.BryanFischerMusic.com...]

[Link: twitter.com...]

180 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:49:55am

re: #178 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Many of the firearms makers have been privately held (and held by Cerberus), which tends to shield them from prying eyes of investors. Cerberus is probably looking at the money from pension funds as a source of additional capital and the firearms companies are likely to send those funds elsewhere.

181 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:56:30am

re: #172 Sol Berdinowitz

If he had only been properly armed and trained, er, ah....forget it.

Yes, forget it. If you draw a pistol on two men with AKMs, you're just deciding to die. Now, in a case like what that reporter was facing, deciding on "death before dishonor" is entirely acceptable in my eyes, though others may disagree.

182 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 6:58:43am

Good Morning All, How is everyone doing this cool, wet and rainy Tuesday morning?

183 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:00:49am

re: #172 Sol Berdinowitz

There's a reason that journalists do not arm themselves in conflict zones. That would make them targets in the eyes of some (though there's others who see their lack of arms as a reason to target them for kidnappings). It also adds to their perception of objectivity. It's long been taboo to carry firearms, but that could be changing.

184 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:02:45am

re: #182 Donna Ballard

Good Morning All, How is everyone doing this cool, wet and rainy Tuesday morning?

Doing decently. Just had a phone interview, only to find out that I wasn't suited for the job I applied for and the job with the company that I want is in North Carolina. Still, I'm feeling all right and I'm looking to Christmas. How are you doing, DL?

185 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:03:13am

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

Yes, forget it. If you draw a pistol on two men with AKMs, you're just deciding to die. Now, in a case like what that reporter was facing, deciding on "death before dishonor" is entirely acceptable in my eyes, though others may disagree.

Dishonor before discomfort!

/

186 darthstar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:03:20am

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

Yes, forget it. If you draw a pistol on two men with AKMs, you're just deciding to die. Now, in a case like what that reporter was facing, deciding on "death before dishonor" is entirely acceptable in my eyes, though othersa may disagree.

So based on your experience of accepting death before dishonor when facing armed men with AKMs, would you say that's always preferable solution? Me, I'd hit the reset button on the game console or switch to Super Mario. No dishonor in jumping barrels.

187 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:06:16am

re: #183 lawhawk

There's a reason that journalists do not arm themselves in conflict zones. That would make them targets in the eyes of some (though there's others who see their lack of arms as a reason to target them for kidnappings). It also adds to their perception of objectivity. It's long been taboo to carry firearms, but that could be changing.

It has depended on the reporter, though. Famed Vietnam War reporter Joe Galloway never followed that rule after La Drang Valley, though he was more thoroughly trained in the use of a rifle than most soldiers.

188 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:07:18am

re: #186 darthstar

So based on your experience of accepting death before dishonor when facing armed men with AKMs, would you say that's always preferable solution? Me, I'd hit the reset button on the game console or switch to Super Mario. No dishonor in jumping barrels.

It is a choice each person would need to make for himself or herself.

189 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:07:34am

re: #180 lawhawk

Many of the firearms makers have been privately held (and held by Cerberus), which tends to shield them from prying eyes of investors. Cerberus is probably looking at the money from pension funds as a source of additional capital and the firearms companies are likely to send those funds elsewhere.

Well since Smith & Wesson reported a 48% sales increase this year over last Remington certainly can't be far behind. So it obviously isn't being sold because it is under performing. It is being dumped to get rid of a political hot potato, that as you said, could adversely effect the inflow of investments in Cerberus' other holdings.

190 darthstar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:08:24am
191 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:08:39am

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

Doing decently. Just had a phone interview, only to find out that I wasn't suited for the job I applied for and the job with the company that I want is in North Carolina. Still, I'm feeling all right and I'm looking to Christmas. How are you doing, DL?

I'm doing good! Between twice weekly yoga classes and going to the gym on a regular basis my Christmas season stress is at its all time low!

I'm sorry the job interview didn't work out, I haven't had a job interview in two years. The last perspective employer to call me as a prelim for an interview started off the conversation wanting to know how old I was, needless to say that conversation was real short. I'm getting by with a part time(very part time) job as an independent contractor watering plants for an plant maintenance company and taking care of my elderly parents.

192 BongCrodny  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:09:58am

re: #179 watching you tiny alien kittens are

This guy's business is doomed, he might as well just go to court and change his name...

[Link: twitter.com...]

Bryan Fischer
@TheBryanFischer

Creator of dope sounds. [Link: [Link: www.BryanFischerMusic.com...]...]

Long Beach, CA · [Link: [Link: www.BryanFischerMusic.com...]...]

Let me be the first to point out the obvious.

They both create dope sounds!

193 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:10:12am

re: #191 Donna Ballard

The last perspective employer to call me as a prelim for an interview started off the conversation wanting to know how old I was

They're not allowed to ask you that! Could you report them?

194 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:10:34am

re: #189 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Well since Smith & Wesson reported a 48% sales increase this year over last Remington certainly can't be far behind. So it obviously isn't being sold because it is under performing. It is being dumped to get rid of a political hot potato, that as you said, could adversely effect the inflow of investments in Cerberus' other holdings.

You would think you couldn't 'bird dog' the Hound of Hell like that, though.

//

195 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:10:52am

5 people believed killed in murder suicide in Weld County, CO. Weld County has seen spikes in firearms permits, including after the Aurora massacre.

196 darthstar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:12:28am
197 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:12:48am

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

It has depended on the reporter, though. Famed Vietnam War reporter Joe Galloway never followed that rule after La Drang Valley, though he was more thoroughly trained in the use of a rifle than most soldiers.

Ernest Hemingway during the Spanish civil war also comes to mind.

198 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:14:33am

re: #193 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

They're not allowed to ask you that! Could you report them?

Do you honestly think they care if I report them? I can't prove they asked me the question and as soon as I mentioned that they legally can't ask me that question they hung up. Hence the short conversation.

199 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:15:00am

re: #197 watching you tiny alien kittens are

Ernest Hemingway during the Spanish civil war also comes to mind.

Indeed, though he was famous enough that he'd have been something of a "trophy" to any Nationalist who caught or killed him, so the firearm was something he needed.

200 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:15:13am

She took "getting boned" a tad too literally!!!

[Link: www.thelocal.se...]
A 37-year-old Swedish woman with an admitted obsession with skeletons has been convicted of disturbing the peace of the dead for allegedly using human bones for sexual purposes

201 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:15:44am

re: #198 Donna Ballard

Hey you

LTNS
Doing okay!?!?

202 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:16:19am

re: #198 Donna Ballard

Do you honestly think they care if I report them? I can't prove they asked me the question and as soon as I mentioned that they legally can't ask me that question they hung up. Hence the short conversation.

Put up a Page on it, perhaps? That would help get the word out about them being assholes, even if you can't make a formal report.

203 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:16:38am

re: #190 darthstar

[Embedded content]

That kind of news does not help my stress level at all. Sorry my friend but I just can't up-ding that post.....

204 darthstar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:19:07am

re: #203 Donna Ballard

That kind of news does not help my stress level at all. Sorry my friend but I just can't up-ding that post.....

Shitty news shouldn't warrant an up-ding.

205 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:20:45am

re: #195 lawhawk

More details on CO shooting. Murder suicide with firearm involved being reported. Initial reports indicated 5 dead, but newer reports indicate 4. Expect changes as more info comes in.

The incident happened at about 4 a.m. in the Longview subdivision, said Sgt. Tim Schwartz, a sheriff's office spokesman.

The bodies of three adults, and a female who may possibly be a juvenile, were found inside a home. A person inside the home called 911 to alert authorities of the incident. There are no surviving witnesses, Schwartz said.
Investigators at the scene have recovered a handgun, which had been fired several times.

That latter paragraph sounds odd with a statement that someone inside the home called 911 but that there are no surviving witnesses - seems to indicate that the call was initiated by one of the victims who was murdered thereafter.

[update] Other news reports seem to confirm my observation - that the caller was one of the victims, and then a guy got on claiming he was going to kill himself and then more gunshots were heard.

206 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:20:57am

re: #201 sattv4u2

Hey you

LTNS
Doing okay!?!?

So far so good! Hows with you? I gots lots and lots of work to do today, between the pending arrival of a new fridge on Christmas eve, setting up my Christmas village, baking banana bread and now getting ready for an inspection from our friendly building manager to see if our smoke detectors and appliances are working and if our apartment isn't dirty or cluttered I'm going to be a very, very busy girl today and tomorrow!

207 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:22:20am

re: #203 Donna Ballard

That kind of news does not help my stress level at all. Sorry my friend but I just can't up-ding that post.....

Maybe this will cheer you up Go to 3:30 for the gag:

Youtube Video

The vid shows why RWC and DL don't get many solicitors.

208 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:23:39am

re: #206 Donna Ballard

So far so good! Hows with you? I gots lots and lots of work to do today, between the pending arrival of a new fridge on Christmas eve, setting up my Christmas village, baking banana bread and now getting ready for an inspection form our friendly building manager to see if our smoke detectors and appliances are working and if our apartment isn't dirty or cluttered I'm going to be a very, very busy girl today and tomorrow!

Well,, make "him" do some of that work instead of "him" sitting in here all day blathering!!!
/

209 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:23:46am

re: #200 sattv4u2

She took "getting boned" a tad too literally!!!

[Link: www.thelocal.se...]
A 37-year-old Swedish woman with an admitted obsession with skeletons has been convicted of disturbing the peace of the dead for allegedly using human bones for sexual purposes

Oh, that's just WRONG! Just when I think I've heard it all you had to pop up with that one! Merry Christmas to you too! ;-)

210 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:24:22am

re: #209 Donna Ballard

Oh, that's just WRONG! Just when I think I've heard it all you had to pop up with that one! Merry Christmas to you too! ;-)

hehehehehe

211 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:25:36am

re: #207 Dark_Falcon

Maybe this will cheer you up Go to 3:30 for the gag:

[Embedded content]

The vid shows why RWC and DL don't get many solicitors.

I love Daffy Duck! I spent a good part of my childhood watching those cartoons and as soon as I saw them on DVD I went out and bought them!

212 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:27:46am

Dubstep meets classical violin.

Youtube Video
213 EmmaAnne  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:27:47am

re: #22 Targetpractice

Can anyone remember suggestions in '00 that we needed to "take action"?

Yeah, I remember a lot of agitation about getting better voting machines. And a like-minded friend and I used to call Gore our president-in-exile?

Activities involving assault rifles? Not so much.

214 Political Atheist  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:28:40am

re: #208 sattv4u2

Hey Sat I can get myself in enough trouble thanks.
:-)

215 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:30:56am

re: #208 sattv4u2

Well,, make "him" do some of that work instead of "him" sitting in here all day blathering!!!
/

I would if I could! But, sigh, hes working today. Someones gotta bring the bacon home and tag he's it. I just git to be the little woman at home for now. Ugh. BUT I gots ma yoga classes and working out at the gym, those make up for most of it! Oh and ma new frigiator is a comin! I bin buggin him for a new one for months! Yay!

216 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:31:15am

re: #214 Political Atheist

Hey Sat I can get myself in enough trouble thanks.
:-)

GRAB A MOP!!!

217 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:33:09am

re: #214 Political Atheist

Hey Sat I can get myself in enough trouble thanks.
:-)

And your good at it too! ;-P

218 Political Atheist  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:33:19am

re: #212 lawhawk

That's loud in my office right now, thanks. I like dubstep.

219 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:37:48am

re: #212 lawhawk

Thanks lawhawk, I love that kind of music and it really makes my morning a lot brighter!

220 Mattand  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:40:06am

re: #195 lawhawk

5 people believed killed in murder suicide in Weld County, CO. Weld County has seen spikes in firearms permits, including after the Aurora massacre.

Lovely.

I've got someone on Facebook circulating a graphic which can be summed up as: "Remember, gang, as bad as Sandy Hook is, the OKC bombing was worse!" Talks about how fertilizer is still legal and other derpings.

I also got a Very Serious E-Mail from one of my Senators, Robert Menendez, saying we must get serious about stopping these kind of tragedies. No shit, Sherlock.

The only good news about all of this is at least the NRA and LaPierre have dropped off the map.

221 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:44:25am

Well Kids, as much as I'd love to sit here listening to lawhawks beautiful posting and chatting with you all I gots lots and lots and lots of work to get done! Sigh... If I don't get to post again before the end of the year I hope you all have the happiest of holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah and a Happy and Prosperous New Year! Try to keep smiling and laughing!

222 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:45:09am

re: #221 Donna Ballard

Well Kids, as much as I'd love to sit here listening to lawhawks beautiful posting and chatting with you all I gots lots and lots and lots of work to get done! Sigh... If I don't get to post again before the end of the year I hope you all have the happiest of holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah and a Happy and Prosperous New Year! Try to keep smiling and laughing!

Have a great one, DL!

223 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:45:47am

re: #220 Mattand

The only good news about all of this is at least the NRA and LaPierre have dropped off the map.

I get the feeling that more and more politicians are losing their fear of the NRA and the gun lobby - that is a good sign.

224 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:46:32am

re: #191 Donna Ballard

I feel you about the job woes. My wife, who hit 50 this year took 4 years to land a job. She has great skills and credentials yet only was able to land a job as a home health care worker for like 6 bux an hour. Unbelievable.

225 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:47:06am

re: #180 lawhawk

Father of Cerberus CEO lives in Newtown CT and was devastated by the massacre.

Also, Dicks Sporting Goods has suspended the sale of modern sporting rifles in all of its stores across the country. Don't expect that to be a long term trend or long lasting.

226 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:47:09am

Dang just missed her.

227 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:47:33am

This has to be the perfect image of the current budget fight:

Image: eagles-fighting_2430971k.jpg

228 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:48:15am

NEWSFLASH: Blubbering orange blob of crap remains an uncompromising teabag tool:

Bright side? Maybe Obama's social-security-cutting proposal was a make-them-look-even-worse trick after all...

229 Donna Ballard  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:48:23am

re: #226 Amory Blaine

Dang just missed her.

Not quite, tell your wife it all works out in the end and to keep her chin up! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to the two of you!

230 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:49:29am

re: #225 lawhawk

Father of Cerberus CEO lives in Newtown CT and was devastated by the massacre.

Also, Dicks Sporting Goods has suspended the sale of modern sporting rifles in all of its stores across the country. Don't expect that to be a long term trend or long lasting.

Dick's is lying low, which is smart.

With Cerberus, things may be different although to personal connection makes it an individual situation and not a trend.

231 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:49:56am

You too! Happy Holidays! Thanks for the kind words.

232 Mattand  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:50:12am

re: #225 lawhawk

Father of Cerberus CEO lives in Newtown CT and was devastated by the massacre.

Also, Dicks Sporting Goods has suspended the sale of modern sporting rifles in all of its stores across the country. Don't expect that to be a long term trend or long lasting.

Great comment from the linked article, which features a Bushmaster ad with the tag line "Consider Your Man Card Reissued":

i earn my god damn man card in the kitchen and the bedroom, you hillbilly fools.

233 Mattand  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:51:20am

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

This has to be the perfect image of the current budget fight:

Image: eagles-fighting_2430971k.jpg

Nice photo, but one of the eagles should be colored orange and in complete denial that his party got its ass handed to it in November.

234 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:52:16am

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

That's a fantastic photo of the eagles, but not nearly accurate as to the budget battle.

235 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:53:18am

re: #233 Mattand

I think you meant to reply to DF, not me. Not too late to edit.

236 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:55:39am

Now this is a volcano photo:

Taken from the International Space Station

237 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:56:47am

Whoo hoo. A publisher wants to read my book. They liked the synopsis. Even though I said editing it would probably be like trying to punch out a snake.

238 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:56:56am

re: #177 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

While it is rather interesting timing wise, Freedom Group is very ill thought of by the gun community. Since buying Remington & then Marlin, QC has been been very poor and most gun nuts refuse to buy Remlins.

Two birds, one stone?

239 Lidane  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:57:12am

re: #154 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

[Embedded content]


Geez, I NEVER got my kids an EZ Bake. That thing can reach hotter temps than my full-size Amana. (at least it did in the 1970's, don't know if Hasbro has fixed it)

I never had an Easy Bake Oven as a little girl. I had the Snoopy Sno-Cone Machine and Shrinky Dinks. Heh.

240 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:57:41am

Despite, or perhaps because of Sandy Hook, CO saw record background checks for firearms over the weekend. The demand for checks was so high that wait times went from a few minutes to nearly a day:

A total of 4,154 background checks were submitted on Saturday, said CBI spokeswoman Susan Medina. Those figures topped the previous greatest number of background checks on Black Friday this year, when 4,028 were processed.

The surge after the massacre surprised CBI officials, who said the office wasn't adequately staffed to deal with demand. The situation soon created a backlog and increasingly long wait times for potential gun buyers waiting for check results.

So many background checks were submitted the process that normally usually takes minutes turned into wait times of more than 15 hours.
"We had to call in extra staff," Medina said. "The wait times were high."
Because of the wait times, many would-be buyers went home without results. Medina said 3,001 of the requests were processed Saturday.
By Sunday, the wait for a processed background check grew to 18 hours, Medina said. By Monday afternoon, it took longer than 21 hours for a check to be processed.

241 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:58:58am

re: #237 Obdicut

Whoo hoo. A publisher wants to read my book. They liked the synopsis. Even though I said editing it would probably be like trying to punch out a snake.

Congrats! Independent publisher or big house? Last I read, the big houses won't even consider submissions that don't come from literary agents, though maybe that's changed recently.

242 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 7:59:13am

re: #237 Obdicut

Whoo hoo. A publisher wants to read my book. They liked the synopsis. Even though I said editing it would probably be like trying to punch out a snake.

If it's as good as what I read, I'll be looking forward to buying a copy.

243 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:00:02am

re: #234 lawhawk

That's a fantastic photo of the eagles, but not nearly accurate as to the budget battle.

Doesn't seem like either side wants to compromise. At least if you listen to the base from either side. The Firebaggers are whining this morning about Obama's recent compromise. Which of course we now know that Boehner has rejected and doesn't think it goes far enough. It appears that Boehner think 400K is too low and wants to take to 1 mil. Americans are team players in that they're only willing to play on their team against another team.

244 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:00:31am

re: #241 Interesting Times

Independent. My book is too weird for mainstream, I think.

245 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:00:34am

re: #238 William Barnett-Lewis

Some of the reports about the Freedom Group, including the NYT article I cite, relate to ongoing conspiracy theories that Soros was busy buying them up so that he could eventually kill the companies outright. Those nutty conspiracy theories got so bad that the NRA had to issue statements to the contrary and that Soros had nothing to do with the purchases but that it was another private equity group doing the acquisitions.

I couldn't speak to the QC for the weapons.

246 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:01:40am

Morning all!

HOw is it?

247 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:01:58am

re: #239 Lidane

I never had an Easy Bake Oven as a little girl. I had the Snoopy Sno-Cone Machine and Shrinky Dinks. Heh.

If the "boys Easy Bake" can reach high temps like the Easy Bakes of old, perhaps it could be used to heat a branding iron. Said iron to be used to brand Bryan Fischer with the words "douche canoe".

/Kidding, but wouldn't that be fun?

248 Mattand  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:02:42am

re: #235 Interesting Times

I think you meant to reply to DF, not me. Not too late to edit.

Urgh. Sorry about that.

249 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:03:31am

One of the big arguments against gun control is that we don't enforce the ones we have. I've been trying to find stats for "gun convictions" and am having a hard time. I'm probably using the wrong words for google to find anything.

I did find this:

Among prisoners carrying a firearm during their crime, 40% of State inmates and 56% of Federal inmates received a sentence enhancement because of the firearm.

250 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:04:11am

re: #249 Holidays are Family Fun Time

I think you'll appreciate this take on the issue:

251 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:06:50am

re: #240 lawhawk

Despite, or perhaps because of Sandy Hook, CO saw record background checks for firearms over the weekend. The demand for checks was so high that wait times went from a few minutes to nearly a day:

This just goes to show that the NRA still has great power over the weak-minded.

But I believe that their grip on politicians is diminishing.

252 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:11:29am

This site has what seems to be good information and tons of resource links.

But still nothing that shows how many convictions. How many illegal guns confiscated, not any estimates of such.

I'd like to see what laws are working and why. I'd like to see what municipalities enforce and which don't. Same with federal stats.

253 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:12:37am

re: #251 Sol Berdinowitz

This just goes to show that the NRA still has great power over the weak-minded.

But I believe that their grip on politicians is diminishing.

It is among those who are not Fox News Drones or Birchers. They just keep drinkin' the kool-aid and blindly spouting the mantras --freedom, patriotism, the Communists are coming.

254 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:12:48am

Outrage! //

255 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:13:24am

re: #254 Gus

Outrage! //

[Embedded content]

Pelosi:

A month earlier on The Charlie Rose Show Pelosi went further, noting Democratic opposition to the $250,000 mark.

“In our caucus, there is a school of thought that says let’s get rid of all the tax cuts," she said. "I say, let’s begin by getting rid of tax cuts for people making more than a million dollars a year. I’m not even saying $250,000. The president’s saying $250,000. A million and above. Who can argue with that?”

256 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:14:57am

re: #253 Holidays are Family Fun Time

It is among those who are not Fox News Drones or Birchers. They just keep drinkin' the kool-aid and blindly spouting the mantras --freedom, patriotism, the Communists are coming.

They will do so regardless - but that still puts them in a minority among Americans, who now even more overwhelmingly support tighter gun contol legislation.

But the NRA's strngth lay in its ability to bully politicians into supporting them actively or tacitly.

And that seems to be diminshing.

257 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:16:30am

At the NRA's trade association counterpart, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, they have a page 10 Rules of Safe Gun Handling

Nowhere on the list does it mention anything about keeping your weapons out of the wrong hands. That should be rule #1.

258 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:17:31am

LOL at the first hashtag:

259 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:17:48am

re: #256 Sol Berdinowitz

They will do so regardless - but that still puts them in a minority among Americans, who now even more overwhelmingly support tighter gun contol legislation.

But the NRA's strngth lay in its ability to bully politicians into supporting them actively or tacitly.

And that seems to be diminshing.

You can't even get the real gun nuts to accept that Nancy Lanza was an irresponsible gun owner. They have a million excuses for her.

260 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:18:48am

re: #258 Interesting Times

LOL at the first hashtag:

[Embedded content]

That's a lot of Viagra.

261 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:18:49am

Fischer: Sandy Hook Shooting Proof That America's 'Moral Capital' has Run Out

Shorter Fischer: The kids never asked for God's protection, so they had it coming.

262 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:19:37am

re: #257 Mich-again

At the NRA's trade association counterpart, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, they have a page 10 Rules of Safe Gun Handling

Nowhere on the list does it mention anything about keeping your weapons out of the wrong hands. That should be rule #1.

No, that goes under the additional rules for ownership. They mean only physically handling the gun.

263 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:19:50am

Whoa!

264 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:21:13am

re: #245 lawhawk

Some of the reports about the Freedom Group, including the NYT article I cite, relate to ongoing conspiracy theories that Soros was busy buying them up so that he could eventually kill the companies outright. Those nutty conspiracy theories got so bad that the NRA had to issue statements to the contrary and that Soros had nothing to do with the purchases but that it was another private equity group doing the acquisitions.

I couldn't speak to the QC for the weapons.

I've heard the Soros thing but those folks are tinfoil wearers anyway. The QC though, I know first hand. Lots of firearms that shouldn't have been shipped on dealer shelves. I saw a Marlin lever action that could not feed from it's magazine and a Remington bolt action that was so full of metal filings that if you had fired it without cleaning you'd have a dead shooter. As a result even the non-nuts gun folks are avoiding "Remlin".

265 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:21:48am

re: #259 Mich-again

You can't even get the real gun nuts to accept that Nancy Lanza was an irresponsible gun owner. They have a million excuses for her.

The nuttiest will accept no blame for anything, and they are always people like that. Others with a more mature view will give it in due course when things calm down a bit more.

266 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:21:49am

re: #263 Gus

Whoa!

[Embedded content]

I was one of the first to bring up the Cerberus connection on Twitter:

Timeline here. I'm at the very bottom. :O

267 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:23:28am

re: #266 Gus

I was one of the first to bring up the Cerberus connection on Twitter:

[Embedded content]

Timeline here. I'm at the very bottom. :O

Quayle has been a venture capitalist for a good number of years now.

268 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:28:48am

re: #262 Dark_Falcon

No, that goes under the additional rules for ownership. They mean only physically handling the gun.

Nowhere in their website do they say anything about the dangers of allowing loaded weapons in the hands of people who have mental illness. All the in-home gun safety was geared toward protecting against curious children who might stumble upon the weapon.

269 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:28:58am

re: #267 Dark_Falcon

Quayle has been a venture capitalist for a good number of years now.

He's also experienced in looking for the easy way out... ///

270 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:29:06am

re: #259 Mich-again

You can't even get the real gun nuts to accept that Nancy Lanza was an irresponsible gun owner. They have a million excuses for her.

And that is the point: these guys have gone over the Rhetorical Cliff but are too ideologically blindered to notice. All thy can do is double down, distract and heap it on with a bigger trowel...

I still believe there is a majority of sane people in America, even among gun owners, and they are getting fed up with being held hostage by the gun lobby and its influence on politics.

271 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:29:25am

The Secret Service has some good articles on preventing school shootings and what they call "targeted violence". Here's a link to their National Threat Assessment Center. It's worth a look.

272 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:30:27am

Hahaha!

He links to Fox News and "criticism" from Brad Blakeman.

Bradley A. Blakeman is the former president and chief executive officer,[1] as well as one of several prominent conservatives funding Freedom's Watch, a new White House front group[2] which began "a multimillion-dollar advertising campaign to urge members of Congress who may be wavering in their support for the war in Iraq not to 'cut and run'."[3]

Blakeman resigned as Freedom's Watch chairman in March 2008[4] amid a reported "internal dysfunction" in the group that resulted in a breakdown in relations between Blakeman and the board of directors.[5]

Blakeman served as a member of President George W. Bush's Senior Staff as the Deputy Assistant to the President for Appointments and Scheduling.[6]

Prior to joining the Bush administration in 2006, Blakeman worked as a lobbyist at Park Strategies LLC for former Sen. Alfonse D'Amato (R-N.Y.).[7][8] He is also the Senior Advisor for Gordon C. James Public Relations.[6]

Blakeman is a former vice president of Barbour, Griffith and Rogers.

273 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:31:01am

Post-Newtown, Sales Boom for Kids' Body Armor

Amendment II isn't the only company that has realized that, with the epidemic of school violence, there's money to be made in marketing kid-friendly body armor. At least a half-dozen companies hawk variations of the armored backpack, many of which explicitly play to fears of another Columbine. "My Child's Pack," from the Massachusetts company Bullet Blocker, goes for $224.99 (it's currently on sale for the holidays).

274 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:32:43am

re: #268 Mich-again

Nowhere in their website do they say anything about the dangers of allowing loaded weapons in the hands of people who have mental illness. All the in-home gun safety was geared toward protecting against curious children who might stumble upon the weapon.

Keeping children safe from guns has been the NRA's focus in this realm. Why they do not have page regarding mental illness is not a question I can answer.

275 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:32:46am

re: #270 Sol Berdinowitz

And that is the point: these guys have gone over the Rhetorical Cliff but are too ideologically blindered to notice. All thy can do is double down, distract and heap it on with a bigger trowel...

I still believe there is a majority of sane people in America, even among gun owners, and they are getting fed up with being held hostage by the gun lobby and its influence on politics.

Like the Mentally Ill, the vast majority of guns in this country have never been involved in a crime.

I'm no so concerned about any legislation that may be passed, I'm concerned about how it will translate into procedure for law enforcement. I don't fear house-to-house searches as that is just unworkable, but I am concerned about searching homes of those convicted of gun crimes, and actually getting them prosecuted and not having charges dropped in a plea bargain.

276 efuseakay  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:34:02am

RIP Senator Inouye... :(

277 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:35:19am

By the way, 70 percent of the guns seized by Toronto police come from America.

USA! USA! We will send gun crime your way!

278 efuseakay  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:36:09am

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Keeping children safe from guns has been the NRA's focus in this realm. Why they do not have page regarding mental illness is not a question I can answer.

Because the NRA's answer to that is MOAR GUNZZZZZ! You see. If everyone was packing, mentally ill people determined to go on senseless rampages will always be stopped!!!!!!

279 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:37:10am

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Keeping children safe from guns has been the NRA's focus in this realm. Why they do not have page regarding mental illness is not a question I can answer.

Here's some of NRA's handiwork:

Image: NRA-vigilant-dad.jpg
Image: NRA-gangs.jpg

When you gotta have white flight you gotta have the guns.

280 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:39:05am

re: #273 jaunte

Post-Newtown, Sales Boom for Kids' Body Armor

I ran across that company last year in conjunction with a warfighter protection conference Marcus Evans held. Contemplated buying a computer bag from them, but it was too expensive.

281 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:39:39am

re: #279 Gus

Here's some of NRA's handiwork:

Image: NRA-vigilant-dad.jpg
Image: NRA-gangs.jpg

When you gotta have white flight you gotta have the guns.

Apropos:

282 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:39:45am

re: #279 Gus

Here's some of NRA's handiwork:

Image: NRA-vigilant-dad.jpg
Image: NRA-gangs.jpg

When you gotta have white flight you gotta have the guns.

Nothing new. ISTR that the NRA helped draft New York's Sullivan act which was designed more to keep guns out of the hands of the poor & non-white than anything else. Elinor Roosevelt never had a problem getting a carry permit, for example.

283 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:40:08am

re: #278 efuseakay

Because the NRA's answer to that is MOAR GUNZZZZZ! You see. If everyone was packing, mentally I'll people determined to go on senseless rampages will always be stopped!!!!!!

NRA: Guns don't kill, people do!

I can buy that to an extent.

But how is it that the mere presence of guns is supposed to radiate an aura of protection?

Guns are useless, or even less-than-zero in a public setting unless the user is well trained, experienced and equipped with steady nerves and a sound sense of judgement.

You can't just go and buy a set of those skills at a damn gun show.

284 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:41:35am

Here is a somewhat decent article about guns and mental illness from some commie librul gun grabbing ragazine called "Guns and Ammo" /

Mental Illness and Gun Ownership

There is no guarantee that the prohibition on gun purchases by involuntarily committed individuals will weed out the potentially most dangerous gun purchasers. Schizophrenics, severe manic-depressives and other seriously ill individuals may legally purchase firearms. Many of these individuals are highly intelligent and may be notoriously difficult to diagnose. In a statement, the APA cautioned that "psychiatrists have no special knowledge or ability with which to predict dangerous behavior" by patients. Although schizophrenics and others with similar illnesses may be delusional and have distorted perceptions of reality, they may be able to control their symptoms long enough to complete the gun-purchasing process. Firearms in the hands of these acutely disturbed individuals are a menace to society....

Other potentially dangerous mentally ill persons must be prevented from purchasing firearms. This responsibility falls largely upon relatives, friends and medical personnel. There must be effective teamwork among these caregivers if there is to be any chance of keeping deeply troubled individuals away from firearms. Unfortunately, this is hazardous duty. When severely disturbed individuals commit violent acts, 85 percent of victims are family members or friends.

285 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:41:52am

re: #282 William Barnett-Lewis

Nothing new. ISTR that the NRA helped draft New York's Sullivan act which was designed more to keep guns out of the hands of the poor & non-white than anything else. Elinor Roosevelt never had a problem getting a carry permit, for example.

Yeah, we have to include the very rich and elected politicians in a gun control efforts. The idea that an elected politician can carry has always pissed-me off.

I know we will hear that argument over any legislation. "you will only be disarming the law-abiding rank-n'-file citizen"

286 Lidane  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:42:11am

Time Magazine has released the short list for their Person of the Year:

[Link: celebrate.today.com...]

On Tuesday morning, TIME magazine's short list of eight potential choices for its iconic Person of the Year cover was revealed live on TODAY. The list includes Marissa Mayer, CEO of Yahoo!; Mohammed Morsi, president of Egypt; Undocumented Americans; Bill and Hillary Clinton; President Barack Obama; Malala Yousafzai, the student activist from Pakistan who survived an assassination attempt by the Taliban; Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple; and the Higgs Boson and Italian physicist Fabiola Giannati.

My vote would be for Malala. She's put her life on the line for what she believes in -- the right of a girl to get an education. She's incredibly brave.

287 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:43:36am

re: #263 Gus

Whoa!

[Embedded content]

The California State Teachers’ Retirement System, which has $751 million invested with Cerberus, said it would review its relationship with the private-equity firm, “given the tragic events last Friday in Newtown, Conn.”

Union thugs find a pressure point. Excellent.

$751 mil does a lot of talking.

288 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:43:48am

re: #282 William Barnett-Lewis

Nothing new. ISTR that the NRA helped draft New York's Sullivan act which was designed more to keep guns out of the hands of the poor & non-white than anything else. Elinor Roosevelt never had a problem getting a carry permit, for example.

I don't think that's true. The NRA was generally against gun control laws intended to disarm the poor prior to WWII. The image of gangs depicted in that graphic is a postwar phenomenon. Most of the gangs in the early part of the 20th century were white.

289 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:44:15am

re: #286 Lidane

Time Magazine has released the short list for their Person of the Year:

[Link: celebrate.today.com...]

My vote would be for Malala. She's put her life on the line for what she believes in -- the right of a girl to get an education. She's incredibly brave.

EXCELLENT! She reminds me of Booker T Washington in that she is willing to do whatever it takes to get an education -- I'm not sure he encountered the threat to his life at the level she has. . . .

290 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:46:07am

re: #286 Lidane

Time Magazine has released the short list for their Person of the Year:

[Link: celebrate.today.com...]

My vote would be for Malala. She's put her life on the line for what she believes in -- the right of a girl to get an education. She's incredibly brave.

My vote would be for Morsi. He's done more to effect the world this year than any of the others. He's also a massive asshole, but it's time for Time to name an asshole Man of the Year again.

291 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:46:34am

How the NRA Defeats National Tragedies

First it scares people into thinking the government is coming for their guns. Then it quietly asks the public to pray for the victims of the next rampage.

292 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:46:37am

re: #288 Dark_Falcon

I don't think that's true. The NRA was generally against gun control laws intended to disarm the poor prior to WWII. The image of gangs depicted in that graphic is a postwar phenomenon. Most of the gangs in the early part of the 20th century were white.

Italian white. Irish white. Eastern European white & jewish. Catholic white. And others were what the rich feared and wanted controlled.

293 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:46:51am

News from the crazy party:



294 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:47:04am

re: #283 Sol Berdinowitz

NRA: Guns don't kill, people do!

I can buy that to an extent.

But how is it that the mere presence of guns is supposed to radiate an aura of protection?

Guns are useless, or even less-than-zero in a public setting unless the user is well trained, experienced and equipped with steady nerves and a sound sense of judgement.

You can't just go and buy a set of those skills at a damn gun show.

A couple of months ago I read a novel "Soft Target" by Stephen Hunter, about a bunch of terrorists who take hostages at a mall which is not "Mall of America." (Hunter had to include a number of disclaimers that his novel was set at a fictitous mall somewhere in Minnesota.) Anyway one of the shoppers happens to be a U.S. Marine sniper just back from Afghanistan.

The novel follows the Marine around the mall as he hides from the terrorists, obtains a weapon after killing one of them (with a knife) and the various tactical problems that confront him.

Nobody else at the mall has a weapon (except for the hostiles), which the Marine is very happy for since it would have presented a tactical nightmare.

295 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:47:14am

Some NRA fearmongering:

Image: NRAHispanicPanic.jpg

296 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:48:58am

re: #295 jaunte

Some NRA fearmongering:

Image: NRAHispanicPanic.jpg

Yeah, already posted that one. The NRA is all about stoking fear and paranoid conspiracy theories in order to a) increase membership and NRA revenue and b) increase gun and ammo sales.

297 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:49:02am

re: #294 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

A couple of months ago I read a novel "Soft Target" by Stephen Hunter, about a bunch of terrorists who take hostages at a mall which is not "Mall of America." (Hunter had to include a number of disclaimers that his novel was set at a fictitous mall somewhere in Minnesota. Anyway one of the shoppers happens to be a U.S. Marine sniper just back from Afghanistan.

The novel follows the Marine around the mall as he hides from the terrorists, obtains a weapon after killing one of them (with a knife) and the various tactical problems that confront him.

Nobody else at the mall has a weapon (except for the hostiles), which the Marine is very happy for since it would have presented a tactical nightmare.

I base my terror scenarios of "24" and Jack Bauer, and novels like this one.

Because they fit my ideological bent, not because they correspond to reality.

/

298 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:49:20am

re: #293 Gus

News from the crazy party:

[Embedded content]

Insanity. All three cases. To me part of the problem is who we elect and that outside of scandal re-election is pretty much a given. It's a very good thing that Todd Akin resigned his seat to run for the Senate because otherwise, he'd have that seat in the House as long as he wants.

299 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:49:48am

re: #295 jaunte

Some NRA fearmongering:

Image: NRAHispanicPanic.jpg

Fuckers.

300 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:49:53am

re: #297 Sol Berdinowitz

I base my terror scenarios of "24" and Jack Bauer, and novels like this one.

Because they fit my ideological bent, not because they correspond to reality.

/

I read novels and watch movies for fun.

301 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:50:05am

re: #296 Gus

This one's a real stretch:
Image: AnimalRights.jpg

I like the owl with the dynamite.

302 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:51:31am

What in the ever-living...

Seriously, go read all the quotes from these degenerate throwbacks.

303 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:51:31am

re: #296 Gus

Yeah, already posted that one.

His has a better file name.

304 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:51:33am

It's ok to be a Reindeer.

305 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:51:46am

re: #301 jaunte

This one's a real stretch:
Image: AnimalRights.jpg

Ha! Yeah, gotta have a gun to defend yourself from the impending take over of Murica by animal rights activists! Check out the owl carrying dynamite. The NRA is the Pamela Geller of gun lobbyists.

306 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:52:00am

re: #303 wrenchwench

His has a better file name.

I saw that.

307 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:52:18am

re: #301 jaunte

This one's a real stretch:
Image: AnimalRights.jpg

I like the owl with the dynamite.

Yeah. I guess that's what Mr. Owl did after the money from the Tootsie Pop ads stopped coming in.

308 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:52:22am

re: #303 wrenchwench

His has a better file name.

File Names are so important in sorting thru your stuff!

309 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:52:42am

re: #305 Gus

Ha! Yeah, gotta have a gun to defend yourself from the impending take over of Murica by animal rights activists! Check out the owl carrying dynamite. The NRA is the Pamela Geller of gun lobbyists.

They have some kinda Shepard Fairey graphic artist.

310 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:52:44am

re: #301 jaunte

This one's a real stretch:
Image: AnimalRights.jpg

I like the owl with the dynamite.

I wonder how they'd like it if you drew a cartoon in a similar style depicting a gun-toting creepy white kid heading for a school...

311 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:52:45am

re: #305 Gus

In the foreground, a Meane lobster.

312 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:52:50am

re: #301 jaunte

This one's a real stretch:
Image: AnimalRights.jpg

I like the owl with the dynamite.

Note hippie chick with hairy legs and tattoo.

They're a freakin caricature of paranoia infused by stereotypes.

313 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:53:04am

Liberal librarians are going to take over America! Buy guns!

314 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:53:26am

re: #301 jaunte

This one's a real stretch:
Image: AnimalRights.jpg

I like the owl with the dynamite.

given some of the troubles researchers who work with animals have faced, I'd not dismiss the threat from terrorists with that motive cavalierly.

315 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:53:59am

And the right accuses the SPLC of fear mongreling.

316 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:54:00am

Hell, can you even imagine what a tactical advantage it would be if the US military could train owls to carry dynamite?

317 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:54:11am

re: #311 jaunte

In the foreground, a Meane lobster.

Check out the woman. Tattooed and with leg stubble.

Beware of hairy legged womens America! Buy guns!

318 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:54:27am

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

given some of the troubles researchers who work with animals have faced, I'd not dismiss the threat from terrorists with that motive cavalierly.

Oh please, you know exactly why that's being mocked. An owl with dynamite? The hairy legged woman?

319 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:54:33am

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

given some of the troubles researchers who work with animals have faced, I'd not dismiss the threat from terrorists with that motive cavalierly.

Would you promote that NRA ad?

320 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:54:50am

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

given some of the troubles researchers who work with animals have faced, I'd not dismiss the threat from terrorists with that motive cavalierly.

Movie patrons and school kids seem to be victimized more than animal researchers.

321 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:55:47am

re: #311 jaunte

In the foreground, a Meane lobster.

Needs moar demon sheep.

322 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:56:44am

Don't forget she's got a tattoo too. Oooh people with tattoos, they must be violent.

323 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:57:01am

re: #312 Kronocide

Note hippie chick with hairy legs and tattoo.

They're a freakin caricature of paranoia infused by stereotypes.

She has a belly button ring too.

324 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:57:24am

re: #322 HappyWarrior

Don't forget she's got a tattoo too. Oooh people with tattoos, they must be violent.

And hairy legs! She probably isn't even wearing a bra!

[GASP]

325 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:57:25am

re: #312 Kronocide

Note hippie chick with hairy legs and tattoo.

They're a freakin caricature of paranoia infused by stereotypes.

And that California teacher's union cartoon "Tax the Rich" wasn't suffused with stereotypes?

Hell, that's most of the reason for using animation: It lets you bend reality to show the image you want to show.

326 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:57:45am

I'm confused by the expanding guns to teachers meme. The same people who are pushing for crushing unions and vilify teachers because they teach at public schools and are likely to be anti-creationist and believe in the separation of church and state are now seeking to arm these same teachers with firearms.

These same folks pushing the meme are also among those who will not coincidentally claim that if there's a new civil war that they'd be better armed than the liberals. Well, putting firearms in the hands of hundreds of thousands of teachers might well change that calculus? Or did they not think that through (or that far).

Then again, they would probably hope that the right kind of teacher gets firearms, not those nasty liberals.

327 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:59:03am

get tissues

328 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:59:05am

re: #319 wrenchwench

Would you promote that NRA ad?

Nope, too over the top. I'm not one for using animation to depict a threat. Walt Disney did that well, but I'm too literal minded for it myself.

329 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 8:59:48am

re: #326 lawhawk

Then again, they would probably hope that the right kind of teacher gets firearms, not those nasty liberals.

Maybe the janitors should have brooms that are actually rifles.

330 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:00:18am

re: #326 lawhawk

These same folks pushing the meme are also among those who will not coincidentally claim that if there's a new civil war that they'd be better armed than the liberals. Well, putting firearms in the hands of hundreds of thousands of teachers might well change that calculus? Or did they not think that through (or that far).

They are not thinking things through at this point, they are reacting to what they perceive is a real threat to the gun culture they have been propagating.

Public opinion is turning on them, as are the politicians they have had bullied for decades. They are hanging in thin air right now, like Wile E. Coyote, flailing their legs and, hopefully, about to plummet to the canyon floor below.

331 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:00:29am

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

Nope, too over the top. I'm not one for using animation to depict a threat. Walt Disney did that well, but I'm too literal minded for it myself.

WTF? That's your only objection to it? What if it were a photo of actors instead?

332 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:00:38am

Of course, say you do arm teachers and then we'll get the same people who advocated for this calling teachers gangsters and thugs.

333 Lidane  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:01:52am

The derp is strong with this one:

If people are serious about stopping this sort of thing they will take a number of steps:

1. Homeschool. Take away the power of the radicals in the classrooms. Makes your kids safer, too.

2.Back Right to Work legislation for the public sector. Teacher’s unions have helped cement much of this in place. As long as we have group think in the classrooms we will never see the end of this.

3.Engage in more frank discussion of race and culture. For far too long we have tiptoed around these issues, fearful of being branded a racist. If black thugs kidnap and rape a woman, ask if there is something in the black culture that fostered that. If an evil white kid murders a bunch of children at the school, ask the same question of the white community. What was it that spawned this behavior? What was this kid taught? We have to stop hiding from our respective national sins.

This particular bit stands out:

9.Support the creation of local organizations to act as “neighborhood watch” for schools. Had George Zimmerman been at the front door instead of some mechanical card reader those children would still be alive. Perhaps it’s time we start asking for volunteers to protect our children. It will require security checks, but isn’t that worth it? This dovetails with the union problem; the unions will fight this measure tooth-and-nail.

Wheee!

334 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:02:15am

re: #328 Dark_Falcon

Nope, too over the top. I'm not one for using animation to depict a threat. Walt Disney did that well, but I'm too literal minded for it myself.

By 'over the top', do you mean they are promoting guns by promoting fear of something that is irrational for almost everyone to fear?

335 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:02:18am

re: #332 HappyWarrior

Now put that into a stand your ground state - protests where you've got everyone armed (teachers/union vs. protesters).

Naw, no way that could get ugly. Nope. No how. Uh huh.

336 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:02:25am

re: #325 Dark_Falcon

And that California teacher's union cartoon "Tax the Rich" wasn't suffused with stereotypes?

Hell, that's most of the reason for using animation: It lets you bend reality to show the image you want to show.

Stereotypes aren't merely the infraction: what stereotypes and how there are used are.

You don't find the stereotype of a woman with a tattoo, belly button ring, birkenstocks, and hairy legs somewhere between comical and offensive?

337 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:02:37am

re: #333 Lidane

Back to feudalism. That was safe.

338 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:03:19am

re: #336 Kronocide

Stereotypes aren't merely the infraction: what stereotypes and how there are used are.

You don't find the stereotype of a woman with a tattoo, belly button ring, birkenstocks, and hairy legs somewhere between comical and offensive?

Combined with the implied solution of shooting the problem.

339 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:03:26am

re: #333 Lidane

Impressive. George Zimmerman got the crap knocked out of him by an unarmed teenager...

340 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:03:34am

re: #337 jaunte

Back to feudalism. That was safe.

A fuedalistic society is a polite society!

341 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:03:36am

re: #333 Lidane

The derp is strong with this one:

This particular bit stands out:

Wheee!

Peak wingnut is real! Seriously. They're going further to the right and atavism.

342 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:04:05am

re: #325 Dark_Falcon

And that California teacher's union cartoon "Tax the Rich" wasn't suffused with stereotypes?

Hell, that's most of the reason for using animation: It lets you bend reality to show the image you want to show.

Remind which rich person stereotype gets real people hurt, killed, or harassed.

I remember the Top Hat Massacre of nineteen-ought-never. Pour out a splint of Krug nonvintage on the curb for the dead homies and their comically large burlap bags with dollar signs on the side.

343 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:05:08am

re: #333 Lidane

The derp is strong with this one:
This particular bit stands out:
Wheee!

[facepalm]

344 Mattand  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:06:14am

re: #333 Lidane

The derp is strong with this one:

This particular bit stands out:

9.Support the creation of local organizations to act as “neighborhood watch” for schools. Had George Zimmerman been at the front door instead of some mechanical card reader those children would still be alive. Perhaps it’s time we start asking for volunteers to protect our children. It will require security checks, but isn’t that worth it? This dovetails with the union problem; the unions will fight this measure tooth-and-nail.

Wheee!

This is doubtful, as the Sandy Hook shooter was white. Not Zimmerman's preferred target profile.

345 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:06:27am

re: #333 Lidane

The derp is strong with this one:

This particular bit stands out:

Wheee!

More right wing self-victimhood crap. Imagine my shock.

346 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:06:54am

re: #333 Lidane

Derpity Derp 11ty slurp..

347 bubba zanetti  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:07:13am

re: #326 lawhawk

They're the same people that freak out about the Black Panthers standing up to 'government tyranny'. Or even unarmed Occupy.

348 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:08:08am

apropos

349 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:08:58am

re: #326 lawhawk

I'm confused by the expanding guns to teachers meme. The same people who are pushing for crushing unions and vilify teachers because they teach at public schools and are likely to be anti-creationist and believe in the separation of church and state are now seeking to arm these same teachers with firearms.

These same folks pushing the meme are also among those who will not coincidentally claim that if there's a new civil war that they'd be better armed than the liberals. Well, putting firearms in the hands of hundreds of thousands of teachers might well change that calculus? Or did they not think that through (or that far).

Then again, they would probably hope that the right kind of teacher gets firearms, not those nasty liberals.

Isn't there some logical fallacy that states:

"When confronted with a debate that confuses, simply spout known rhetoric over and over until your adversary retreats"

?

350 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:09:17am

re: #348 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

apropos

[Embedded content]

Pretty much.

351 Mich-again  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:09:39am

re: #341 Gus

Peak wingnut is real! Seriously. They're going further to the right and atavism.

Oh just a teeny tiny minority of them.

353 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:10:07am

re: #333 Lidane

The derp is strong with this one:

3.Engage in more frank discussion of race and culture. For far too long we have tiptoed around these issues, fearful of being branded a racist. If black thugs kidnap and rape a woman, ask if there is something in the black culture that fostered that. If an evil white kid murders a bunch of children at the school, ask the same question of the white community. What was it that spawned this behavior? What was this kid taught? We have to stop hiding from our respective national sins.

What Tea Party racism?

354 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:10:29am

re: #340 Kronocide

A fuedalistic society is a polite society!

That whole mis-appropriation of Heinlein would be funny if it wasn't so sad. He was presenting a fictional SF story where a culture had certain mores and the consequences of those mores - lots of fatal dueling... He never said this was the way things should be any more than he did with Starship Troopers or Stranger In A Strange Land. He did have a libertarian streak but it was generally more about sexuality issues than anything else.

355 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:10:42am

re: #340 Kronocide

A fuedalistic society is a polite society!

Yes, everyone knows their place and the serfs know the Lord can do whatever he wants to them for whatever reason, so they are always nice to him.

356 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:11:13am

re: #347 bubba zanetti

They're the same people that freak out about the Black Panthers standing up to 'government tyranny'. Or even unarmed Occupy.

Yeah they see a black dude with a beret and trenchcoat and put "Black Panther Intimidation at the Polls" on the news.

357 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:13:19am

That's always been a strange one to me. Black Panthers were all about the right to self-defense, yet the white paranoid patriot types only saw "slave revolt".

358 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:15:17am

re: #301 jaunte

This one's a real stretch:
Image: AnimalRights.jpg

I like the owl with the dynamite.

Where's the one with the crazy, white, gun hoarding survivalist convinced civilization will collapse and only his/her gun and gold will protect them?

359 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:15:32am

re: #357 Holidays are Family Fun Time

That's always been a strange one to me. Black Panthers were all about the right to self-defense, yet the white paranoid patriot types only saw "slave revolt".

Because they were the wrong people with guns. Look at it this way. They thought that the Tea Party protests were the most wonderful protests in like the history of ever but the second Occupy and like minded groups started up, they started dismissing it in large part because it wasn't their ideas being showcased.

360 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:15:57am

re: #358 Varek Raith

The NRA won't pay for that illustration.

361 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:16:07am

re: #358 Varek Raith

Where's the one with the crazy, white, gun hoarding survivalist convinced civilization will collapse and only his/her gun and gold will protect them?

That one won't be coming from the NRA. They know better than to insult a good number of their members.

362 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:16:59am

Guns for online sale have disappeared from the website of shooting mega-store Cheaper Than Dirt. This has happened in the last hour. There is no announcement. I don't know if the site was hacked or if this is a policy change or a simple error.

363 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:18:27am

Sandy Hook Shooting Prompts ‘Unprecedented’ Run on Guns, Assault Rifles Across the Country

"We already have tons of customers because of Christmas, hunting season is peaking right now, and not to mention, the election," said Larry Hyatt, owner of the largest independently owned gun store in America. "But this tragedy is pushing sales through the roof. It's like putting gasoline on a fire."

Hyatt Gun Shop is notable for being would-be Obama assassin Jerry Blanchard's gun shop of choice.

At some point, humans acquired lemming genes.

364 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:19:12am

re: #301 jaunte

This one's a real stretch:
Image: AnimalRights.jpg

I like the owl with the dynamite.

You know, that cartoon is very similar to the style of R. Crumb. I wonder if it was "inspired" (plagiarized) from any Crumb illustration? I'm at work now so I can't check out that theory, a lot of Crumb's drawings are NSFW.

365 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:19:33am

Black Man with a Gun.

I found this to be a good book. Some good history. The author is an NRA member. HIs coming to terms with the NRA was interesting. I thought it was a courageous title, one that probably hurt it's sales tho. Sad, because this is a big part of the issue --fear of black men with guns.

Having Grown-up in Detroit (burbs) in the '70's, it was good for me to read.

366 allegro  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:19:53am

re: #362 Shiplord Kirel

Guns for online sale have disappeared from the website of shooting mega-store Cheaper Than Dirt. This has happened in the last hour. There is no announcement. I don't know if the site was hacked or if this is a policy change or a simple error.

Maybe they just sold out. The gun fetishists are going even more nuts.

367 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:20:14am

re: #363 jaunte

Sandy Hook Shooting Prompts ‘Unprecedented’ Run on Guns, Assault Rifles Across the Country

At some point, humans acquired lemming genes.

Mob-brain. I know there is a technical term, but I can't think of it.

Group-think?

368 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:20:17am

re: #362 Shiplord Kirel

Guns for online sale have disappeared from the website of mega-gunstore Cheaper Than Dirt. This has happened in the last hour. There is no announcement. I don't know if the site was hacked or if this is a policy change or a simple error.

There were some interesting post-election hints from them that they wanted to be more moderate. This may be part of that. Not sure it would matter - all online gun sales have to go through an FFL or some kind.

369 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:21:39am

Dick's Sporting Goods has pulled all "modern sporting rifles" (industry-speak for military style semi-autos) from their stores nationwide. All guns have been removed from the store closest to Newtown.

370 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:22:33am

re: #368 William Barnett-Lewis

There were some interesting post-election hints from them that they wanted to be more moderate. This may be part of that. Not sure it would matter - all online gun sales have to go through an FFL or some kind.

Yeah, buying my son's target air-rifle for the shooting team was a PITA. We got the best price used at an on-line site, but we had to find a FFL to process the transaction and take delivery. Not complaining, but it wasn't as easy to obtain legally as some people seem to think it is.

371 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:23:12am

re: #369 Shiplord Kirel

Dick's Sporting Goods has pulled all "modern sporting rifles" (industry-speak for military style semi-autos) from their stores nationwide. All guns have been removed from the store closest to Newtown.

I never understood this, but I guess the testosterone infused and immature are drawn to the military style.

372 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:23:35am

Despite the guarded humor in the NRA propaganda, it's pretty clear the conspiracy/survivalist/gun nut subculture sure got a shot in the arm with the Tea Party movement.

I've been reading CNS News and listening to ARN network on the radio, and Beck too.

There is no doubt that there is almost a desire for the collapse of civilization. Not only could it mean the Rapture, but it will be free reign to use all their stock piled weapons to right the wrongs of the previous decades. Liberals, atheists, minorities not espousing 'patriot' ideology will be first against the wall.

This dynamic is clearly a small but very strong undercurrent driving the gun control dynamic.

373 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:23:47am

re: #366 allegro

Maybe they just sold out. The gun fetishists are going even more nuts.

I know they had sold out of 5.56 semi-auto rifles by last night, but they had thousands of traditional style guns that wouldn't interest the assault weapon mob.

374 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:27:09am

re: #373 Shiplord Kirel

I know they had sold out of 5.56 semi-auto rifles by last night, but they had thousands of traditional style guns that wouldn't interest the assault weapon mob.

So, it really is about penis-size?

375 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:27:22am

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

This has to be the perfect image of the current budget fight:

Image: eagles-fighting_2430971k.jpg

Meanwhile, the ravens are enjoying the rest of that fish that is lying over there on the ground...

376 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:28:52am

The Chained CPI Is a Stealth Cut to Social Security

anyone been paying attention to this?

Seems I can't hold more than one issue in my brain at a time.

377 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:29:18am

re: #375 Feline Fearless Leader

Meanwhile, the ravens are enjoying the rest of that fish that is lying over there on the ground...

Is that the Rich robbing the Poor, or the Poor robbing the Rich?

378 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:32:43am
379 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:34:08am

re: #378 Gus

[Embedded content]

Ha, touche.

380 Kragar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:36:57am

Rick Perry tells tea party: Allow more guns in schools

Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) says that schools in his state will be safer when school districts are given the ability to allow staff to carry guns.

Speaking to a cheering crowd of Northeast Tarrant County Tea Party members on Monday, the Texas governor called last week’s shootings at an elementary school in Connecticut an evil act but insisted that new gun laws were not the answer.

“We have to do everything we can to make sure those types of evils are restricted the best they can be,” he explained. “One thing I hope I don’t see is knee-jerk reaction from Washington, where they come in and think they know the answers.

381 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:37:00am
Gov. Rick Perry (R-Texas) warned against a "knee-jerk" reaction from the federal government on gun control in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, and expressed support for allowing teachers to carry guns on campus.[Link: www.nbcdfw.com...]

Perry prefers a "hip-shoot" reaction.

382 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:37:53am

re: #374 Holidays are Family Fun Time

So, it really is about penis-size?

It would seem so. That is an odd inversion in many ways. The 5.56 is a small caliber, though a serious killer, and the guns themselves are noted for light weight and low recoil. My Ruger #1 .45/70 is a cannon by comparison, but I am somehow the one they see as having a "girlie gun." I only get one shot, though, so maybe it is the rapid fire pounding of the scary black guns that gets them off.

383 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:38:09am
384 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:38:18am

Daily Caller Gets Journalistic Scoop Of The Century: Obama’s Signature Looks Like A Dick!

Daily Caller: scooping up LiveLeak's turds and putting them in display case.

385 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:38:52am

Oh dear.

I mentioned that here: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

386 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:39:15am

re: #316 Interesting Times

Hell, can you even imagine what a tactical advantage it would be if the US military could train owls to carry dynamite?

Almost as good as training swallows to carry coconuts!

387 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:39:54am

re: #380 Kragar

Rick Perry tells tea party: Allow more guns in schools

Ramble ramble more guns. Yeah that's really the answer Rick. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable in a school with guns everywhere and I know I am not alone.

388 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:40:16am

re: #382 Shiplord Kirel

It would seem so. That is an odd inversion in many ways. The 5.56 is a small caliber, though a serious killer, and the guns themselves are noted for light weight and low recoil. My Ruger #1 .45/70 is a cannon by comparison, but I am somehow the one they see as having a "girlie gun." I only get one shot, though, so maybe it is the rapid fire pounding of the scary black guns that gets them off.

So they're into pounding away for a few seconds and then being depleted?

389 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:40:42am

re: #329 Mich-again

Maybe the janitors should have brooms that are actually rifles.

Which would be arming the children themselves under the Gingrich Plan.

390 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:41:20am

re: #388 The Ghost of a Flea

So they're into pounding away for a few seconds and then being depleted?

Not if they have a big enough magazine.

391 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:41:23am

SQUIRREL!

392 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:41:32am

Sometimes I want to move to a different place. I really do.

393 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:41:56am

re: #388 The Ghost of a Flea

Then, time for Hot Lips®
[Link: www.cabelas.com...]

Not the Onion.

394 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:42:01am

re: #392 HappyWarrior

Sometimes I want to move to a different place TIME . I really do.

ftfy

395 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:42:16am
396 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:42:21am

Copycat? Coincidence? Either way, that school got damned lucky. The kid claims that the weapons and ammo were for hunting - not for acts against fellow students or others.

397 Lidane  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:42:32am

re: #380 Kragar

Rick Perry tells tea party: Allow more guns in schools

*sigh*

And sadly, there a ton of idiots in this state who agree with him.

398 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:42:51am

What is it with wingnut men and the penis?

399 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:43:22am

re: #349 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Isn't there some logical fallacy that states:

"When confronted with a debate that confuses, simply spout known rhetoric over and over until your adversary retreats"

?

Doesn't work in a stand-your-ground state since they can remain there and continue replying with logic and rational responses.
/

400 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:43:43am

re: #393 jaunte

Then, time for Hot Lips®
[Link: www.cabelas.com...]

Not the Onion.

Clearly I need to up my game when it comes to shooting/fucking double entendres. The industry is just way ahead of me.

401 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:43:47am

re: #394 sattv4u2

ftfy

I've had that one before too but Doc. Brown is nowhere in sight.

402 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:43:49am

re: #392 HappyWarrior

Sometimes I want to move to a different place. I really do.

As an expat, the holidays are when I start to feel the most homesick. But this is the least homesick I have felt for year around Christmas...

403 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:44:30am

It just keeps, coming.

404 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:44:32am

re: #358 Varek Raith

Where's the one with the crazy, white, gun hoarding survivalist convinced civilization will collapse and only his/her gun and gold will protect them?

Waiting for Aslan to show up as their animal leader.
/

405 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:44:40am

re: #396 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Copycat? Coincidence? Either way, that school got damned lucky. The kid claims that the weapons and ammo were for hunting - not for acts against fellow students or others.

I don't know. I'll give the kid the BOD but what an extremely stupid move.

406 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:45:12am
407 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:45:16am

I really don't get the guns in schools concept. Idealistic thinking, but simply not workable.

I think they'd have a hard time finding enough teachers who would want to carry a problem. I also think they are short-sighted on the training aspect. A person who is not well-trained and able to think in the mind-set of the criminal could easily be overpowered and the firearm taken from them.

It takes law enforcement, military or a serious shooter (one that completes and trains constantly) to be able to be cognizant in such situations, IMHO.

Merely having a gun and passing a test will not suffice.

408 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:45:19am

re: #382 Shiplord Kirel

It would seem so. That is an odd inversion in many ways. The 5.56 is a small caliber, though a serious killer, and the guns themselves are noted for light weight and low recoil. My Ruger #1 .45/70 is a cannon by comparison, but I am somehow the one they see as having a "girlie gun." I only get one shot, though, so maybe it is the rapid fire pounding of the scary black guns that gets them off.

The hunting rifle I'd like to get is a #1 RSI in 7x57. Too old fashioned for them I'd guess though slightly more modern than your .45-70 ;) They'd probably faint if they had to use a .30-30 Winchester 94.

409 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:46:07am

re: #396 lawhawk

...a loaded .22-caliber handgun, two wood-handled axes, a stun gun, 10 knives, a pair of handcuffs and 200 rounds of ammunition...


But school officials say the weapons were for hunting and recreation, and the boy had no plans to do any harm.

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

Strange hunting gear.

410 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:46:52am

re: #409 jaunte

Strange hunting gear.

Yeah I take back my BoD. The handcuffs too. How very strange.

411 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:47:13am

re: #409 jaunte

Strange hunting gear.

Depends on what he was hunting.

412 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:47:16am

re: #409 jaunte

Strange hunting gear.

Cops rushed to the school and found a loaded .22-caliber handgun, two wood-handled axes, a stun gun, 10 knives, a pair of handcuffs and 200 rounds of ammunition in Green’s car.

413 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:47:23am

re: #409 jaunte

Depends on your definition of hunting and recreation.

414 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:47:28am

re: #407 Holidays are Family Fun Time

You don't understand...the mere presence of guns will radiate an aura of protection that will scare potential mass murderers off!!1!ty

because guns don't kill...they just protect

Or something.

/

415 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:47:36am

re: #409 jaunte

Strange hunting gear.

He's going to stun the deer and put it in handcuffs?

416 jaunte  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:48:03am

re: #413 lawhawk

"I had to handcuff and stun the owl first, to take away his dynamite before shooting him."

417 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:48:23am

Hell let's have a program that gives every man, woman, and child a gun. Then we'd have zero crime.

418 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:48:35am

re: #415 Holidays are Family Fun Time

He's going to stun the deer and put it in handcuffs?

In Wyoming they do that with sheep only they don't kill it.

//

419 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:48:47am

re: #416 jaunte

"I had to handcuff and stun the owl first, to take away his dynamite before shooting him."

Okay I literally laughed aloud so thanks.

420 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:48:53am

re: #412 Gus

Cops rushed to the school and found a loaded .22-caliber handgun, two wood-handled axes, a stun gun, 10 knives, a pair of handcuffs and 200 rounds of ammunition in Green’s car.

I iz viglantee fitin fer greet justis!

421 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:48:58am

re: #414 Sol Berdinowitz

You don't understand...the mere presence of guns will radiate an aura of protection that will scare potential mass murderers off!!1!ty

because guns don't kill...they just protect

Or something.

/

Yeah, I don't think the mind-set of the school shooter really cares. They know they are going to die (at some level). I think it's a strange way of committing suicide, but it seems to be what happens.

422 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:49:03am

re: #418 Gus

In Wyoming they do that with sheep only they don't kill it.

//

Baaaaaaaaaaaah!

423 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:49:52am

Lol.
Image: tDBGi.jpg

424 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:50:07am

Wait until the first wingnut parent has a kid confronted by an armed teacher for bullying or some other behavior. It won't matter that the gun isn't touched or referenced, the "armed oppression" alarm will be sounded.

425 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:50:14am

re: #405 HappyWarrior

I don't know. I'll give the kid the BOD but what an extremely stupid move.

Might still end up on charges in any case. School or locality probably has a policy against weapons on school grounds. And the state probably has laws controlling how weapons and ammo can be transported in vehicles, even if intended for hunting. (I know the PA hunting regulations included rules regarding that.)

426 Kragar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:50:18am

re: #418 Gus

In Wyoming they do that with sheep only they don't kill it.

//

The sheep lies.

427 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:50:30am

Sre: #421 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Yeah, I don't think the mind-set of the school shooter really cares. They know they are going to die (at some level). I think it's a strange way of committing suicide, but it seems to be what happens.

Seems like a lot of these guys don't say anything. From what I remember reading about Holmes, Cho, and now Lanza, they didn't say so much as a word while they were firing on people.

428 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:50:41am

re: #418 Gus

In Wyoming they do that with sheep only they don't kill it.

//

BaaaaaD

429 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:50:56am

I get it, stun the deer, cuff it's hooves, hack off the antlers with the axes. Then let it go. Humanitarian way of hunting for trophies. The firearm is "just in case".

430 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:51:30am

re: #425 Feline Fearless Leader

Might still end up on charges in any case. School or locality probably has a policy against weapons on school grounds. And the state probably has laws controlling how weapons and ammo can be transported in vehicles, even if intended for hunting. (I know the PA hunting regulations included rules regarding that.)

Yeah, no argument about that.

431 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:51:40am

re: #429 Holidays are Family Fun Time

I get it, stun the deer, cuff it's hooves, hack off the antlers with the axes. Then let it go. Humanitarian way of hunting for trophies. The firearm is "just in case".

catch-and-release

432 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:51:42am

re: #429 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Humanitarian way of hunting for trophies

Me, I go to the local antique/ thrift shops!!

433 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:52:12am

Okay, to recap events since 8:45AM ET:

1) We've had reports of 4-people killed in a murder suicide (firearms related) in CO.
2) 1 student in UT arrested for having a unloaded gun at school and claims parents said it was as a result of #Newtown.
3) 1 student's car searched and a weapons cache of a .22 handgun, 200 rounds of ammo, handcuffs, etc. found in SC. He claims it was for hunting and recreation, but what kind of hunting and recreation requires the handcuffs or a handgun.

Just another day in paradise. Nothing to see here.

434 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:52:31am

re: #432 sattv4u2

Humanitarian way of hunting for trophies

Me, I go to the local antique/ thrift shops!!

You mean you bought that 12-pointer on your wall?

What about the rhino head?

435 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:53:16am

re: #434 Holidays are Family Fun Time

No. The hunter just stood his ground as the buck charged him. /

436 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:53:23am

re: #429 Holidays are Family Fun Time

I get it, stun the deer, cuff it's hooves, hack off the antlers with the axes. Then let it go. Humanitarian way of hunting for trophies. The firearm is "just in case".

.22 pistol would possibly imply the kid was trapping and not hunting.

437 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:54:56am

re: #435 lawhawk

No. The hunter just stood his ground as the buck charged him. /

Shoryuken!

438 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:54:56am

re: #435 lawhawk

No. The hunter just stood his ground as the buck charged him. /

Ah. It was Harry Truman and the buck stopped there?
:p

There's a 8-point buck head on the wall in the other room from me. But that was not from a thrift store. (It was also decent eating, but not as good as doe.)

439 Kragar  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:56:14am

Jeffress: Stopping Gay Marriage Must Be Part of U.S. Defense Policy

Televangelist Robert Jeffress used his sermon about Armageddon to argue that America’s defense policy must include banning same-sex marriage, ending abortion rights and weakening the separation of church and state, warning that they will otherwise lead to divine punishment.

While we're at it, we should begin issuing all military and law enforcement personnel silver bullets to deal with the werewolf threat and begin making sure ashwood stakes are stockpiled for the vampire uprising.

440 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:56:55am

The Bribery Aisle: How Wal-Mart Got Its Way in Mexico
Wal-Mart de Mexico was an aggressive and creative corrupter, offering large payoffs to get what the law otherwise prohibited, an examination by The New York Times found.

441 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:57:22am

re: #439 Kragar

Jeffress: Stopping Gay Marriage Must Be Part of U.S. Defense Policy

While we're at it, we should begin issuing all military and law enforcement personnel silver bullets to deal with the werewolf threat and begin making sure ashwood stakes are stockpiled for the vampire uprising.

The vampires have already been dealt with.
No need to thank me.

442 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:57:46am

re: #439 Kragar

Jeffress: Stopping Gay Marriage Must Be Part of U.S. Defense Policy

While we're at it, we should begin issuing all military and law enforcement personnel silver bullets to deal with the werewolf threat and begin making sure ashwood stakes are stockpiled for the vampire uprising.

lolwut.

443 Lidane  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:59:24am

re: #433 lawhawk

Just another day in paradise. Nothing to see here.

MOAR GUNZ = LESS VIOLENCE!

All we need now is to arm the same jack-booted union thugs in public schools that are indoctrinating children with the evils of socialism and evolution.

///

444 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 9:59:39am

I think there's a trend here. As parts of American society grow more open minded and modern, other parts double down on their nuttiness. I mean really stopping gay marriage should be part of US defense policy? Pack up your bags boys, we're invading Canada!

445 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:00:39am

re: #434 Holidays are Family Fun Time

You mean you bought that 12-pointer on your wall?

No

The buck ran full speed into the side of my house and only his head made it through!!

446 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:01:34am

re: #441 Varek Raith

The vampires have already been dealt with.
No need to thank me.

we won't!

447 Lidane  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:02:00am

re: #439 Kragar

Jeffress: Stopping Gay Marriage Must Be Part of U.S. Defense Policy

How does denying equality for LGBT couples strengthen national defense?

448 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:02:02am

Gun Show Coming to Danbury, 13 Miles from Newtown

449 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:02:12am

re: #441 Varek Raith

The vampires have already been dealt with.
No need to thank me.

I thought we had Abraham Lincoln to thank...

450 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:02:40am

re: #448 Gus

Gun Show Coming to Danbury, 13 Miles from Newtown

According to Big Al’s Web site (warning: click on it and you hear a loud gunshot), children under 10 will get in free when accompanied by an adult.

451 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:02:55am

re: #440 Gus

The Bribery Aisle: How Wal-Mart Got Its Way in Mexico
Wal-Mart de Mexico was an aggressive and creative corrupter, offering large payoffs to get what the law otherwise prohibited, an examination by The New York Times found.

The Times’s examination reveals that Wal-Mart de Mexico was not the reluctant victim of a corrupt culture that insisted on bribes as the cost of doing business. Nor did it pay bribes merely to speed up routine approvals. Rather, Wal-Mart de Mexico was an aggressive and creative corrupter, offering large payoffs to get what the law otherwise prohibited. It used bribes to subvert democratic governance — public votes, open debates, transparent procedures. It used bribes to circumvent regulatory safeguards that protect Mexican citizens from unsafe construction. It used bribes to outflank rivals.

452 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:03:34am
453 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:03:39am

re: #441 Varek Raith

Yes, Stephenie Meyer eviscerated 'em alright. Still have to worry about the zombie apocalypse though.

454 Lidane  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:04:19am

re: #450 Gus

According to Big Al’s Web site (warning: click on it and you hear a loud gunshot), children under 10 will get in free when accompanied by an adult.

Everything I could say about that would be profanity-laden and highly inappropriate.

455 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:04:30am

re: #452 Gus

[Embedded content]

Well our fundamentalist zealots should be happy because the Iranian ones decided "We're going to be just as stupid as you guys are."

456 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:04:32am

re: #451 The Ghost of a Flea

The Times’s examination reveals that Wal-Mart de Mexico was not the reluctant victim of a corrupt culture that insisted on bribes as the cost of doing business. Nor did it pay bribes merely to speed up routine approvals. Rather, Wal-Mart de Mexico was an aggressive and creative corrupter, offering large payoffs to get what the law otherwise prohibited. It used bribes to subvert democratic governance — public votes, open debates, transparent procedures. It used bribes to circumvent regulatory safeguards that protect Mexican citizens from unsafe construction. It used bribes to outflank rivals.

Why do want to punish success?

457 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:04:37am

re: #452 Gus

They were making the same claims about the Aurora movie massacre too. For Iran, when in doubt, blame Israel, the Mossad, or the Zionists.

458 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:05:10am

re: #457 lawhawk

They were making the same claims about the Aurora movie massacre too. For Iran, when in doubt, blame Israel, the Mossad, or the Zionists.

It's predictable. Just like their American counterparts blaming gays or social liberal policy.

459 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:05:26am

re: #457 lawhawk

They were making the same claims about the Aurora movie massacre too. For Iran, when in doubt, blame Israel, the Mossad, or the Zionists.

I'm not saying it was the Juice but it was the Juice.
-- Iran State Media

460 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:06:06am

re: #456 Sol Berdinowitz

Why do want to punish success?

Because I want our corporate-ruled cyberpunk future to be more cool than WalMart.

461 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:06:54am

re: #460 The Ghost of a Flea

Because I want our corporate-ruled cyberpunk future to be more cool than WalMart.

Will you settle for James Caan?

462 Lidane  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:06:57am
463 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:07:49am

Who's to blame for Sandy Hook
Gays
Israel
Abortion pills
Obama
Not enough armed teachers
Teachers unions
Video games

Who's not to blame
easy access to weapons

464 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:08:14am

re: #462 Lidane

[Embedded content]

The term "gun hoarder" really applies well here.

465 Gus  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:08:18am

re: #458 HappyWarrior

It's predictable. Just like their American counterparts blaming gays or social liberal policy.

They both watch Alex Jones.

466 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:08:54am

re: #460 The Ghost of a Flea

Weyland Yutani, OCP, and Tyrell all thank you for your support.

467 HappyWarrior  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:09:10am

re: #465 Gus

They both watch Alex Jones.

Seems that way.

468 GunstarGreen  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:09:44am

re: #460 The Ghost of a Flea

Because I want our corporate-ruled cyberpunk future to be more cool than WalMart.

Youtube Video
469 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:10:37am

But, what would happen to the world if American stopped buying stuff?

:0

470 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:11:04am

re: #445 sattv4u2

No

The buck ran full speed into the side of my house and only his head made it through!!

and the rhino head?

471 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:12:19am

re: #418 Gus

In Wyoming they do that with sheep only they don't kill it.

//

Where the men are men and the sheep are nervous.

472 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:12:25am

re: #450 Gus

According to Big Al’s Web site (warning: click on it and you hear a loud gunshot), children under 10 will get in free when accompanied by an adult.


A man who answered the phone number listed on the Big Al’s site said “yes” when asked Tuesday morning if the show was still on. When asked further questions, he replied, “I really have no comments, buddy.” When asked his name, he said, “Have a good day” and hung up.

Well,, at least he was a pleasant sorta chap

473 sattv4u2  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:13:01am

re: #470 Holidays are Family Fun Time

and the rhino head?

butt
he backed into the house!! (we don't use that room much anymore!!)

474 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:13:43am

re: #472 sattv4u2


A man who answered the phone number listed on the Big Al’s site said “yes” when asked Tuesday morning if the show was still on. When asked further questions, he replied, “I really have no comments, buddy.” When asked his name, he said, “Have a good day” and hung up.

Well,, at least he was a pleasant sorta chap

I think the reason so many of these sites are shutting down is to avoid hackers and harassment...they will be up again as soon as they think the dust has sufficiently settled

475 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:14:32am

re: #466 lawhawk

Weyland Yutani, OCP, and Tyrell all thank you for your support.

Did Yoyodyne get that contract they were after?

476 allegro  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:14:52am

re: #474 Sol Berdinowitz

I think the reason so many of these sites are shutting down is to avoid hackers and harassment...they will be up again as soon as they think the dust blood has sufficiently settled

ftfy

477 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:17:44am

re: #475 Feline Fearless Leader

Yeah, but only after John Bigboote made a few calls.

478 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:20:11am

re: #362 Shiplord Kirel

Guns for online sale have disappeared from the website of shooting mega-store Cheaper Than Dirt. This has happened in the last hour. There is no announcement. I don't know if the site was hacked or if this is a policy change or a simple error.

Mystery solved...

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Cheaper Than Dirt! is suspending online sales of firearms effective immediately. We are reviewing our policy internally, and will continue to be the leader in the outdoor industry with our full line of gear and accessories.

The howling and tears of frustration from the wingnuts in the comments are quite entertaining.

479 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:20:29am

Quick! What is the first thing that pops into your mind when you see the word:

ubuntu

?

480 Kronocide  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:20:46am

re: #463 HappyWarrior

Who's to blame for Sandy Hook
Gays
Israel
Abortion pills
Obama
Not enough armed teachers
Teachers unions
Video games

Who's not to blame
easy access to weapons

Penis's don't cause rape, men cause rape.

wry uncomfortable ///

481 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:20:51am

And now, the second-dumbest idea of the week so far, from the state that ranks 49th in mental health funding:

Texas Gov. Rick Perry urged school districts to review their plans to ensure they are prepared to respond to incidents such as the horrific shooting at a Connecticut elementary school Friday.

David Thweatt, superintendent of the tiny Harrold school district in northwest Texas, believes his staff is ready.

Besides special locks and security cameras, an undisclosed number of staff members and teachers carry concealed handguns.

Thweatt said the "guardian plan," which drew international attention when it was implemented in 2008, definitely enhances student safety.

If I had kids, they would not be in a school where people who are not law enforcement are carrying guns. Schools employ some of the dumbest people on the planet, and by definition someone who wants to carry concealed in a classroom fits that bill. Far too much room for infinite dumbassery in infinite combinations.

482 bratwurst  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:20:54am

re: #479 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Quick! What is the first thing that pops into your mind when you see the word:

ubuntu

?

Headache

483 Lidane  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:21:36am

re: #479 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Quick! What is the first thing that pops into your mind when you see the word:

ubuntu

?

The Linux fanboys in IT.

484 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:22:40am

re: #479 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Quick! What is the first thing that pops into your mind when you see the word:

ubuntu

?

Japanese baseball version of the suicide squeeze.

485 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:23:17am

re: #479 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Quick! What is the first thing that pops into your mind when you see the word:

ubuntu

?

Reformat and install Debian.

486 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:27:31am

ubuntu

people seem much more aware of the operating system than the idea.

487 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:32:01am

re: #486 Holidays are Family Fun Time

ubuntu

people seem much more aware of the operating system than the idea.

Republican US president Theodore Roosevelt alluded to the underlying principle of ubuntu in a speech in 1903:

"It is all-essential to the continuance of our healthy national life that we should recognize this community of interest among our people. The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us, and therefore in public life that man is the best representative of each of us who seeks to do good to each by doing good to all; in other words, whose endeavor it is not to represent any special class and promote merely that class's selfish interests, but to represent all true and honest men of all sections and all classes and to work for their interests by working for our common country....”

Further proof that Teddy was a commie.
///

488 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:33:00am

from the wiki on ubuntu:

Nelson Mandela
. . . .Ubuntu does not mean that people should not enrich themselves. The question therefore is: Are you going to do so in order to enable the community around you to be able to improve?

489 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:33:24am

re: #479 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Quick! What is the first thing that pops into your mind when you see the word:

ubuntu

?

What I run on my 10 year old laptop so that I can still access LGF?

490 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:35:56am

re: #417 HappyWarrior

Hell let's have a program that gives every man, woman, and child a gun. Then we'd have zero crime.

The same logic that dictates less taxes = more revenue.
//

491 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Dec 18, 2012 10:36:40am

re: #489 William Barnett-Lewis

What I run on my 10 year old laptop so that I can still access LGF?

[Link: xkcd.com...]


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 79 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 253 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1