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Right Wingers in Gun-Buying Panic: Record Sales of Assault Rifles at Gun Shows

Worshipping violence and death
US News • Views: 33,541

What sort of person reacts to the horrible mass murder in Newtown by rushing out to a gun show and buying the same assault rifle used by Adam Lanza to slaughter 26 people?

Answer: a whole lot of right wingers: Gun Enthusiasts Pack Shows to Buy Assault Weapons.

Gun enthusiasts thronged to shows around the country on Saturday to buy assault weapons they fear will soon be outlawed after a massacre of school children in Connecticut prompted calls for tighter controls on firearms.

Reuters reporters went to gun shows in Pennsylvania, Missouri and Texas, and found long lines to get in the door, crowds around the dealer booths, a rush to buy assault weapons even at higher prices and some dealers selling out.

The busiest table at the R.K. Gun & Knife show at an exposition center near the Kansas City, Missouri airport was offering assault weapons near the entrance. West Plains, Missouri dealer Keith’s Guns sold out of about 20 AR-15 style assault rifles in a little over an hour, owner Keith Gray said.

An AR-15 type assault weapon was among the guns authorities believe suspect Adam Lanza stole from his mother to use in the massacre of 20 school children and six adults at a Newtown, Connecticut elementary school on December 14.

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101 comments

1 jaunte  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:34:57am

No similar panic run on gun safes.

2 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:37:47am

Right wingers are severely delusional: congress can't get a budget passed but somehow they are going to muster votes enough to ban guns? What idiots.

3 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:40:21am

Atrocities are the best thing to happen to the firearms industry. Spin it any way you want, but it profits them. I have no doubt that there are some who jizz in their pants every time this happens.

4 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:40:26am

re: #1 jaunte

No similar panic run on gun safes.

Good quality gun safes surely prevent more gun deaths than guns do. Funny how that works.

Edited to reflect the info in Jaunte's #7.

5 jaunte  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:43:48am

You would think "independent-minded" right-wingers would be annoyed by the gun manufacturers' obvious manipulation, but they keep getting sucked into the same multi-thousand-dollar special panic sales events.

Military drag is such an alluring fashion for them.

6 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:44:05am

well, i wish them all a merry gunmass

7 jaunte  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:46:57am

Unsafe Gun Safes Can Be Opened By A Three-Year Old

Small gun safes have become popular as an alternative security system for protecting both weapons and valuables, even though Federal law requires some sort of lock to be provided with every gun sale.

You should know how unsafe these gun safes are. Both small and large gun safes are sold at all major sporting goods stores and on-line retailers, including Walmart, Cabelas (37 stores), Scheels (24 stores), and Dicks Sporting Goods (450 stores). These safes typically cost $75-$200 depending upon manufacturer, retail outlet, container size and alleged “sophistication and method of locking.” There are three leading brands that are sold by these retail outlets: Stack-on, GunVault, and Bulldog.

"Three year old Eddie Ryan Owens died of a gunshot wound after [Detective Ed Owens] his father's weapon was removed from a Stack-On Strong Box safe issued by the Clark County Sheriff’s Dept. in Vancouver, Wash."

8 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:47:11am
GUN SHOW 'LOOPHOLE'

Thousands of guns shows are held in the United States every year. Under federal law, licensed dealers must conduct a background check before selling to a buyer at a gun show.

But in what critics call a "loophole," which some gun control advocates hope to close, unlicensed collectors and other private sales do not require a background check.

A 2009 undercover investigation at seven gun shows by the city of New York found that 63 percent of sellers failed an "integrity" test by selling a weapon to a buyer who admitted he probably could not pass a background check.

Pennsylvania dealer Donley said on Saturday that since the Connecticut shooting the telephone wait for dealers to get through to the State Police unit that provides background checks has increased from 15 minutes up to 45 minutes.

9 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:47:38am

It's always been funny to me how acceptable violence is in our culture but God forbid we have the gall to show a woman TOPLESS.

10 MichaelJ  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:49:59am

Even if we somehow manage to pass a form of gun control legislation, there have been so many of these weapons purchased since Obama took office that it may be too late to really have any impact. The right wing has been fearful of Obama taking away their guns for so long that they have had time to amass large stockpiles of weaponry. I would like it if the legislation included a clause to repossess all assault rifles purchased in the last 4 1/2 years.

11 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:50:43am
12 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:51:34am

NRA CHIEF: IF PUTTING ARMED POLICE IN SCHOOLS

i haven't been keeping up, but surely somebody else has noticed that a more totalitarian, big government, police state solution could hardly be imagined

i mean, not even nazi germany or stalinist russia had armed police guards in every schoolroom

13 The Mountain That Blogs  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:53:23am

re: #11 Charles Johnson

He's a doctor, too.

/facepalm

14 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:55:09am

re: #13 The Mountain That Blogs

He's a doctor, too.

/facepalm

And a creationist.

15 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:56:58am

re: #14 Charles Johnson

And a creationist.

It takes somebody who doesn't recognize reality to fear Marxism more than rampant assault rifle sales.

16 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:58:26am

Now I have someone on Twitter trying to argue that there are just as many left wingers panic-buying guns as right wingers. *facepalm*

17 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:58:32am

re: #13 The Mountain That Blogs

He's a doctor, too.

/facepalm

Pepper or Demento?

18 jaunte  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:58:48am

"Scientific Creationism is my intellectual hobby"

Definitions in conflict!

19 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:59:32am

I'd be curious to see the racial breakdown of the average group of gun buyers. I can already guess at the results, but I'd still like to see some stats just the same.

20 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 11:59:36am

re: #10 MichaelJ

I would like it if the legislation included a clause to repossess all assault rifles purchased in the last 4 1/2 years.

You go ahead and let us know how that works out. I don't think you're aware of the magnitude of the numbers. To say nothing of the legal issues...

The only possible way to reduce the numbers of these things in circulation is legal and cultural: reduce demand by increasing barriers to ownership, make storage requirements mandatory, ban componentry outright, and somehow make millions of men examine and question their self-image. Some of these things can be done by mortals, others would require divinity.

This is heresy in the gun-owning world, but I'm perfectly willing to exchange my high-cap mags, buy a heavier-duty safe, go through a psych eval or Law Enforcement screening, register with the gubmint, whatever... But the only way you're going to get my rifle is to buy it from me, at a fair market price. It was expensive and frankly I'd rather bury it somewhere than turn it over for free.

21 The Mountain That Blogs  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:01:53pm

re: #17 dragonfire1981

Pepper or Demento?

Zoidberg

22 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:10:13pm

re: #20 Pawn of the Oppressor

You go ahead and let us know how that works out. I don't think you're aware of the magnitude of the numbers. To say nothing of the legal issues...

The only possible way to reduce the numbers of these things in circulation is legal and cultural: reduce demand by increasing barriers to ownership, make storage requirements mandatory, ban componentry outright, and somehow make millions of men examine and question their self-image. Some of these things can be done by mortals, others would require divinity.

I also kind of like the idea of government buy backs for banned weapons. Not a compulsory thing like the Australians did but a discreet yet open free market method to sop up the excess supplies at gun shows. It would take a while but would eventually jack up the prices so very few could actually afford them.

23 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:10:42pm

One thought about making laws to control guns, and why that seems so hard: the "War on Drugs".

Namely, it has become increasingly obvious, I assert, that said "War on Drugs" has had negative side effects greater in magnitude than any positive results, yet our society and political class seems to be stuck on continuing this "War". There are a few exceptions at the local level, but even they (e.g., medical marijuana) seem quite lame as far as changing the general thrust of the "war". A growing movement exists to shut down this "War", but it is still in the tiny minority nation wide.

Fear. Fear drives humans, and fear mongers are experts in controlling people through using fear as a tool.

Insecurity about many aspects of life are driving these gun-nuts, and many are now being driven so far that their derangement is becoming more obvious to a greater number of Americans, but the "I'll Stand My Ground" primitive territorialism still is strongly pushed in our society as some sort of lofty goal to which we are to aspire.

Repeating myself here - the 18th century mindset of rugged individualism, carrying a musket rifle over the next ridge in one hand and the KJV in the other - that's so far out of date it is now an albatross around our necks.

24 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:11:36pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Increasing demand in a free market, for produced goods, often results in increased supply.

25 DelusionDeluge  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:11:49pm

I am seeing a lot of posts on my Facebook feed claiming gun control advocates are being "emotional" in the wake of Sandy Hook, and then listing a bunch of dubious pro-gun "facts" as a rebuttal. Is there any doubt these damaged ghouls are equating "emotional" with "feminine"... as in: everyone who is bothered by children being shot in cold blood by an unnecessary automatic weapon is being a girly girl, and all the girly emotional women in schools can't defend their students without manly NRA-trained (white) men playing the role of protector. To me, this debate really highlights our society's warped view of masculinity - that men=rational and women=irrational. Considering the percentage of men who commit violent crimes, mass shootings, sexual assaults and mosque arsons, and the overwhelming number of women who are damaged in their wake, it seems to me we live in Opposite Land. Yeah, right wing John Wayne wannabes know best - what could possibly go wrong?

26 jaunte  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:15:53pm

Some concentration of ownership info, from
Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms

Concentration
Despite enough guns in private hands to provide every adult in America with one, only one-quarter of adults actually own firearms. Those who have one gun usually have several: 74 percent possessed two or more in 1994.

Gun ownership is quite concentrated but not more so than for other durable goods. In marketing circles, the "80/20 rule" suggests that the top fifth of all consumers of a product typically account for four-fifths of all purchases by value. NSPOF data indicate that the top 20 percent of firearm owners possessed 55 percent of privately owned firearms. 3 Of gun owners in 1994, 10 million individuals owned 105 million guns, while the remaining 87 million guns were dispersed among 34 million other owners.

Persons owning several guns tended to have varied collections, including rifles, shotguns, and handguns. 4 We find that 68 percent of handgun owners also owned at least one rifle or shotgun, suggesting some experience and interest in the sporting uses of guns. Exhibit 1 provides additional data on the composition of private gun collections.

Demographic patterns.
In 1994 gun ownership was far from uniformly distributed across the population, as is evident from exhibit 2. Most striking is the gender gap: 42 percent of men but just 9 percent of women owned guns at the time of NSPOF. (The gap is even wider when the focus is on whether the respondent ever owned a gun.) With respect to race, whites were substantially more likely to own guns than blacks (27 versus 16 per- cent), and blacks more likely than Hispanics (16 versus 11 percent). But for handguns alone, the ownership rates among blacks and whites were nearly equal (13.1 versus 16.5 percent).

Gun ownership (and handgun ownership) was highest among middle-aged, 5 college educated people of rural and small-town America. But one of the best predictors of gun ownership was the presence of firearms in the respondent's childhood home. People whose parents possessed guns were three times as likely as others to own one themselves. In fact, 80 percent of all current gun owners reported that their parents kept a firearm in the home.
[Link: docs.google.com...]

27 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:20:41pm

re: #24 freetoken

Increasing demand in a free market, for produced goods, often results in increased supply.

That's why it needs to be coupled with a ban on weapons that are part of the buyback program. Otherwise, just a ban on assault weapons, for example, still leaves all the existing weapons in circulation at gun shows and private sellers. The buy back would only effect banned weapons.

28 TedStriker  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:22:10pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

29 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:22:20pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Otherwise, just a ban on assault weapons, for example, still leaves all the existing weapons in circulation at gun shows and private sellers.

When you say "ban", is it ban on:

1) ownership
2) sale
3) production
4) importation ?

30 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:22:54pm

re: #25 DelusionDeluge

There are a lot of dubious facts and figures going around. Here's a good fact check
Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts
Image: FirearmFacts.png

31 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:22:55pm

moar gunz in the hands of a few

I don't get it.

never mind, yes I do.

Profits, profits, profits

If they were really interested in securing the country, they'd launch safety training classes nationwide with a discount on your first gun after you pass the class.

32 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:24:43pm

re: #29 freetoken

When you say "ban", is it ban on:

1) ownership
2) sale
3) production
4) importation ?

I would say 3, 4 and possibly 2. Like the previous assault weapons ban which didn't work out very well.

33 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:24:46pm

re: #29 freetoken

When you say "ban", is it ban on:

1) ownership
2) sale
3) production
4) importation ?

To be effective (for a particular class of weapon) it would have to be a ban on at least 1, 2 and 4

You would still need #3 for military and law enforcement uses (there would have to be an exclusion in #2 for those entities)

34 Mattand  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:25:05pm
35 jaunte  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:25:36pm

re: #31 Holidays are Family Fun Time

In the minds of paranoid gun-owners, the risk of a marxist dictatorship has risen since the end of 2008.

36 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:28:07pm

re: #35 jaunte

In the minds of paranoid gun-owners, the risk of a marxist dictatorship has risen since the end of 2008.

There is fear the "have-nots" will start invading the neighborhoods of the "haves."

My answer is, well, yes, that is why we have social programs in place. So people down-on-their-luck won't have to steal food AND IT WON'T GET TO THAT POINT.

Somehow, the logic never get's thru.

Well, that's not entirely true. When I explain that we have to take care of people because each and every one of them has the right to own a gun in this country, the light bulb does sometimes goes on. You can see it in their eyes.

37 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:29:29pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

Federal data also show violent crimes committed with guns — including murders, aggravated assaults and robberies — have declined for three straight years.

most people i think use their bank cards these days for transactions that one used to carry around cash for

robbing people of the contents of their wallets at gunpoint has become obsolete

38 Kragar  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:31:01pm

20 AR-15s sold from a table in a gun show in about an hour.

I'm sure thanks to the efficient regulatory process, all the buyers were able to pass a stringent background check before finalizing their purchase to make sure they were stable and responsible citizens.

39 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:32:42pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

I would say 3, 4 and possibly 2. Like the previous assault weapons ban which didn't work out very well.

There has to be a deeper change in our approach to this whole subject.

There are many possible weapons that I am not allowed to own, but as they are not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution and thus the laws stand. Only because "arms" is mentioned, the magickal power of words is at play here, guns are somehow a God-granted right.

40 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:33:07pm

re: #37 engineer cat

Federal data also show violent crimes committed with guns — including murders, aggravated assaults and robberies — have declined for three straight years.

most people i think use their bank cards these days for transactions that one used to carry around cash for

robbing people of the contents of their wallets at gunpoint has become obsolete

Replaced (somewhat) for their I-Phones, their laptops (which many people now carry) and other such devices

41 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:34:46pm

grrrrr

42 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:36:38pm

“If I’m a mom or a dad and I’m dropping my child off at school I’d feel a whole lot safer” if there were trained armed security guards or police protecting the school

but

Asked about restricting the size of ammunition magazine or clips, LaPierre said, “I don’t believe that’s going to make one difference. There are so many different ways to evade that, even if you had that. You had that for 10 years when (Sen.) Dianne Feinstein passed that ban in ’94. It was on the books. Columbine occurred right in the middle of it – it didn’t make any difference.”

so, lets say we put armed guards in all schools. well, "There are so many different ways to evade that"

we would find that mass murderers would attack at malls, bus stops, sports stadiums. maybe even movie theatres. they would find ways to evade metal detectors

if we started in with lapierre's plan, how soon would it be before there were armed guards in every public place, and you had to be patted down before entering any store, movie theatre, or any other public event?

43 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:38:29pm

Very much not in a Tea Partying mood, TCM ran for the first time on TV in many decades, the special A Carol for Another Christmas.

If shown at one of these gun conventions the gun-nuts would be driven mad, I suppose.

Mancini did the theme music for it:

If you can find a copy of the movie it is worth the gander, if only to see what was the ideological battle ground 48 years ago.

44 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:38:38pm

re: #23 freetoken

One thought about making laws to control guns, and why that seems so hard: the "War on Drugs".

Namely, it has become increasingly obvious, I assert, that said "War on Drugs" has had negative side effects greater in magnitude than any positive results, yet our society and political class seems to be stuck on continuing this "War". There are a few exceptions at the local level, but even they (e.g., medical marijuana) seem quite lame as far as changing the general thrust of the "war". A growing movement exists to shut down this "War", but it is still in the tiny minority nation wide.

Fear. Fear drives humans, and fear mongers are experts in controlling people through using fear as a tool.

Insecurity about many aspects of life are driving these gun-nuts, and many are now being driven so far that their derangement is becoming more obvious to a greater number of Americans, but the "I'll Stand My Ground" primitive territorialism still is strongly pushed in our society as some sort of lofty goal to which we are to aspire.

Repeating myself here - the 18th century mindset of rugged individualism, carrying a musket rifle over the next ridge in one hand and the KJV in the other - that's so far out of date it is now an albatross around our necks.

Yes. There is a ton of money being made by the perpetuation of the War on Drugs, and the profiteers need to monger fear to keep it coming. There needs to be a pushback against fear. That's what this Page was about.

45 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:39:02pm

re: #42 engineer cat

at malls, bus stops, sports stadiums. maybe even movie theatres.

Due to recent events many of those places now have a regular security presence, often an armed one

46 Kragar  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:39:16pm
47 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:40:23pm

re: #40 sattv4u2

Replaced (somewhat) for their I-Phones, their laptops (which many people now carry) and other such devices

this might be a good point if it were true, but it isn't true

people are not being robbed of their laptops in dark alleys

48 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:40:50pm

re: #46 Kragar

A 12th century mind striving for the 18th century there.

49 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:41:29pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

at malls, bus stops, sports stadiums. maybe even movie theatres.

Due to recent events many of those places now have a regular security presence, often an armed one

"There are so many different ways to evade that"

- Wayne LaPierre

50 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:42:27pm

re: #47 engineer cat

this might be a good point if it were true, but it isn't true

people are not being robbed of their laptops in dark alleys

I beg to differ

[Link: www.google.com...]

51 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:43:13pm

re: #49 engineer cat

"There are so many different ways to evade that"

- Wayne LaPierre

How does that negate what I posted?

52 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:43:41pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

at malls, bus stops, sports stadiums. maybe even movie theatres.

Due to recent events many of those places now have a regular security presence, often an armed one

listen, is this what you want?

an america where there are armed guards in every public place, patting people down before they are allowed to enter?

the lapierre solution is, exactly, a police state

advocate it if you like

53 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:44:02pm

re: #51 sattv4u2

How does that negate what I posted?

i can't operate your brain for you

54 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:44:30pm

Note to Bryan Fischer: My "security" today, in 2012, depends a whole lot more on the Hoover dam generating electricity and sending me water, than any gun can provide.

Welcome to the 21st century.

55 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:45:38pm

re: #52 engineer cat

listen, is this what you want?

Where did I say that? I merely (factually) stated that many of those places now have armed guards

advocate it if you like

Again, where did I say that??

Geezz,,, I love (read ,, HATE) how people assign things to me I've never said!

56 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:46:42pm

re: #50 sattv4u2

I beg to differ

[Link: www.google.com...]

from your cite:

Ga. Tech grad student robbed near campus - Atlanta News, Weather ...
www.myfoxatlanta.com/.../armed-robber-targets-ga-tech-grad-studen...
Oct 8, 2012 – Georgia Tech officials say crime against their students is down, but one graduate student would say differently.

i thought pro gun advocates here were citing statistics to show that violent crime is down, but you cite something that explicitly says just the opposite

your point?

57 The Mountain That Blogs  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:47:47pm

re: #42 engineer cat

No patdowns. What's the point of patdowns when everyone is supposed to have a gun anyway?

58 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:48:45pm

re: #56 engineer cat

{sigh}

Your point was (correctly) people aren't being robbed at gunpoint for their cash because they don't carry any

I merely stated (correctly) that the cash robbery is being replaced by robbing I-Phones, Laptops, ect

59 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:49:10pm

re: #57 The Mountain That Blogs

Just ask Ron Paul. He'll tell you.

60 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:49:14pm

re: #55 sattv4u2

listen, is this what you want?

Where did I say that? I merely (factually) stated that many of those places now have armed guards

advocate it if you like

Again, where did I say that??

Geezz,,, I love (read ,, HATE) how people assign things to me I've never said!

my point was that once your start advocating posting armed guards everywhere that mass murder may occur, pretty soon you are likely to have a society where there are armed guards in every public place requiring you to be patted down before entering any school, office building, sports stadium, mall, store, or parking lot

because "There are so many different ways to evade that"

what was your point?

61 kirkspencer  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:49:21pm

Just as a reminder, I'm going to quote a section of the Republican 2012 National Platform.

The Second Amendment:
Our Right to Keep and Bear Arms

We uphold the right of individuals to keep and bear arms, a right which antedated the Constitution and was solemnly confirmed by the Second Amendment. We acknowledge, support, and defend the lawabiding citizen’s God-given right of self-defense. We call for the protection of such fundamental individual rights recognized in the Supreme Court’s decisions in District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago affirming that right, and we recognize the individual responsibility to safely use and store firearms. This also includes the right to obtain and store ammunition without registration. We support the fundamental right to self-defense wherever a lawabiding citizen has a legal right to be, and we support federal legislation that would expand the exercise of that right by allowing those with state-issued carry permits to carry firearms in any state that issues such permits to its own residents. Gun ownership is responsible citizenship, enabling Americans to defend their homes and communities. We condemn frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers and oppose federal licensing or registration of law-abiding gun owners. We oppose legislation that is intended to restrict our Second Amendment rights by limiting the capacity of clips or magazines or otherwise restoring the ill-considered Clinton gun ban.We condemn the reckless actions associated with the operation known as “Fast and Furious,” conducted by the Department of Justice, which resulted in the murder of a U.S. Border Patrol Agent and others on both sides of the border. We applaud the Members of the U.S. House of Representatives in holding the current Administration’s Attorney General in contempt of Congress for his refusal to cooperate with their investigation into that debacle. We oppose the improper collection of firearms sales information in the four southern border states, which was imposed without congressional authority.

62 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:49:23pm

re: #56 engineer cat

i thought pro gun advocates here were citing statistics

Again assigning something that I never said!!

63 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:50:22pm

re: #58 sattv4u2

However, the medical article I posted yesterday still noted that of the homicides which occurred in 2009 in the 16 states monitored, robbery was a (the) leading act involved, and guns were used in the majority of cases.

64 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:51:17pm

re: #60 engineer cat

what was your point?

That many of the places youi cited ALREADY HAVE THEM!

Have you not been to a mall, a theater, a stadium in the last,. oh, decade or so??

I never ADVOCATED, CONDONED, CALLED FOR, APPLAUDED IT. I merely acknowledged that THEY'RE THERE!

65 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:51:51pm
66 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:52:37pm

re: #63 freetoken

However, the medical article I posted yesterday still noted that of the homicides which occurred in 2009 in the 16 states monitored, robbery was a (the) leading act involved, and guns were used in the majority of cases.

Yes, and all I stated was the stick up for the $20 cash in your pocket has been replaced by the stick up for your I-Phone

67 freetoken  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:56:09pm

Gun ownership is one of those things about which I have changed my mind a couple of times.

As I get older I'm now looking at it (rampant gun ownership and gun-related crimes) as a symptom of our society still not coming to terms with the big changes that have occurred the past 100 years.

We have many more people now, mostly living in urban areas. Like other nations around the world with high population densities and big cities, we have to change our society's taboos/laws to accommodate this way of life.

This romanticism/fetish for guns so many Americans have must pass, I now believe.

68 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:57:06pm

re: #64 sattv4u2

what was your point?

That many of the places youi cited ALREADY HAVE THEM!

Have you not been to a mall, a theater, a stadium in the last,. oh, decade or so??

I never ADVOCATED, CONDONED, CALLED FOR, APPLAUDED IT. I merely acknowledged that THEY'RE THERE!

no armed guards in the movie theatres in berkeley or san francisco. no patdowns in the stores here

the society that has arrived at the armed guard solution that will stop gun violence has not been implemented, that was my point. if it was, entry to every public place, indoors or outdoors, would resemble the process of getting on a plane

citing rent-a-cops at the mall hardly counters the argument

69 celticdragon  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:57:14pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

I also kind of like the idea of government buy backs for banned weapons. Not a compulsory thing like the Australians did but a discreet yet open free market method to sop up the excess supplies at gun shows. It would take a while but would eventually jack up the prices so very few could actually afford them.

Previous attempt at gun buy backs yielded an awful lot of broken or non working firearms, and in some cases cheap rifles were bought back at above the market cost (like 75 dollar SKS rifles bought back for 300 dollars)which enabled the sellers to actually buy better weapons.(like kalashnikovs)

70 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 12:58:15pm

re: #55 sattv4u2

Geezz,,, I love (read ,, HATE) how people assign things to me I've never said!

This keeps happening to you! This place must be full of people who just can't comprehend well-written English!

/

71 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:00:18pm

re: #68 engineer cat

no patdowns in the stores here

I never said there were patdowns (again, placing words in my posts)

citing rent-a-cops at the mall hardly counters the argument

Not if those rent a cops are armed, as many of them now are AND augmented by the local police, again ,as many of them now are

72 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:00:44pm

re: #70 wrenchwench

This keeps happening to you! This place must be full of people who just can't comprehend well-written English!

/

Okay, so where did I say what he said I did??

(I'll wait!!)

73 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:01:57pm

re: #57 The Mountain That Blogs

No patdowns. What's the point of patdowns when everyone is supposed to have a gun anyway?

well, that is an interesting conundrum

would the lapierre solution mean that we all would be required to carry weapons on planes?

all i know is i don't want to be around at the mall when everybody pulls out their gun at the same time

i'll be in switzerland eating socialist chocolate

74 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:02:29pm

re: #58 sattv4u2

{sigh}

Your point was (correctly) people aren't being robbed at gunpoint for their cash because they don't carry any

I merely stated (correctly) that the cash robbery is being replaced by robbing I-Phones, Laptops, ect

...and people still stick up convenience stores and gas stations. I suspect the drop may be due to increased alarms, camera systems and general security in high risk businesses.

75 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:03:24pm

re: #72 sattv4u2

Okay, so where did I say what he said I did??

(I'll wait!!)

I'm not getting into that. I'm suggesting you might have something to do with how frequently you are misunderstood.

76 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:04:45pm

basically, the lapierre solution is a slippery slope to a police state the likes of which have never been seen before

77 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:04:58pm

From the Fact Check article

As for overall gun violence, the FBI tracks the use of firearms in three types of violent crimes (murder, robbery and aggravated assault), and the use of guns has declined in all three cases. From 2006 to 2011, robberies committed with guns declined 21 percent and aggravated assaults committed with guns declined 12.5 percent, according to the FBI reports. In both cases, the number of violent gun crimes dropped each year since 2008.

The number of reported gun injuries, however, is on the rise.

There were 55,544 non-fatal injuries in 2011 resulting from assaults involving guns — up from 53,738 in 2010 and 44,466 in 2009, the CDC’s database shows. Since 2001, the rate of gun injuries is the second highest in 11 years when adjusted for population.

However, Barber said gun violence has “dropped precipitously” from the early 1990s — a trend criminologists chalked up to “changes in the crack cocaine market.” Her observation is supported by crime data and surveys.

As we said earlier, the homicide rate since 1981 peaked in 1993 at 7 per 100,000. In addition, the Census Bureau’s annual National Crime Victimization Survey collects data on nonfatal firearm-related violent crimes, including those not reported to police. That data set shows a dramatic decline in gun violence since the early 1990s.

78 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:05:41pm

re: #75 wrenchwench

I'm not getting into that

How convenient. So the answer is "no, I can't find where you said what he assigned to you"

79 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:07:59pm
80 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:08:26pm

re: #78 sattv4u2

I'm not getting into that

How convenient. So the answer is "no, I can't find where you said what he assigned to you"

well, go ahead and take a position then, eh? what?

81 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:11:34pm

re: #78 sattv4u2

I'm not getting into that

How convenient. So the answer is "no, I can't find where you said what he assigned to you"

It's not a contest. It was just something to think about. If you don't want to think about it, that's ok too.

82 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:13:08pm

re: #80 engineer cat

well, go ahead and take a position then, eh? what?

Ask a question
I'll give an answer

83 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:14:20pm

re: #82 sattv4u2

Ask a question
I'll give an answer

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

84 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:14:27pm

re: #81 wrenchwench

It's not a contest. It was just something to think about. If you don't want to think about it, that's ok too.

So again, the answer is "gee, no, I can't find you saying what he said you did"

Just something to think about. If you don't want to think about it, that's ok too

85 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:14:47pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

Depends. Me, I clap it against my forehead!!!

86 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:15:15pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

re: #85 sattv4u2

Depends. Me, I clap it against my forehead!!!

sounds kinda hollow!!!

87 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:16:15pm

re: #76 engineer cat

basically, the lapierre solution is a slippery slope to a police state the likes of which have never been seen before

My Venezuelan brother in law said that in Caracas, to get into a restaurant or a store or many other public places, you have to be buzzed in through a security door and/or pass an armed guard. They still have one of the highest murder rates in the world.

88 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:17:36pm

re: #84 sattv4u2

So again, the answer is "gee, no, I can't find you saying what he said you did"

Just something to think about. If you don't want to think about it, that's ok too

Sorry, I didn't look. I'm not taking sides in your current spat. I'm guilty of making a sarcastic comment blaming you for your own problem of being misunderstood. I apologize.

89 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:21:32pm

re: #86 sattv4u2

re: #85 sattv4u2

sounds kinda hollow!!!

Put a bag of sand in there, it'll also give you better traction in the snow.

90 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:21:46pm

re: #82 sattv4u2

Ask a question
I'll give an answer

do you agree with lapierre's suggestion that the solution to mass murders by gun is more armed guards posted in more places?

btw, i will writ out plain my counter argument to your counter cases here:

1) mr lapierre proposes that the solution to mass murder by gun is more armed guards in more places

2) mass murder by gun is still taking place

3) therefore, lapierre's solution has not yet been implemented

so, citing mall cops is is not a counter argument for my projection of what lapierre's solution might lead to in order for it to be implemented effectively

91 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:22:27pm

DERP!

92 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:23:10pm

re: #88 wrenchwench

Sorry, I didn't look. I'm not taking sides in your current spat. I'm guilty of making a sarcastic comment blaming you for your own problem of being misunderstood. I apologize.

Sorry that I didn't take it as sarcasm, but it happens here to me (and other perceived 'righties") all far too often

I made a simple declarative factual statement. I NEVER advocated for pat downs, or armed personal in malls, theaters or stadiums. I merely stated that they exist

93 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:25:10pm

re: #90 engineer cat

do you agree with lapierre's suggestion that the solution to mass murders by gun is more armed guards posted in more places?

No. See how easy it is to find out what I think if only you ask

citing mall cops is is not a counter argument for my projection of what lapierre's solution might lead to in order for it to be implemented effectively

I never said it was. I simply (and factually) stated that there are now armed guards in many malls, theaters and stadiums

94 dragonath  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:31:56pm

re: #43 freetoken

Very much not in a Tea Partying mood, TCM ran for the first time on TV in many decades, the special A Carol for Another Christmas.

Holy cow! Mankiewicz, Sellers, Serling, and Mancini in the same production?!!

95 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:37:45pm

re: #92 sattv4u2

Sorry that I didn't take it as sarcasm,

I used a sarc tag.

but it happens here to me (and other perceived 'righties") all far too often

Oh, it's not that you're unclear, it's that you're a perceived 'rightie'. Is that an incorrect perception? If so, how did that happen?

96 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:40:01pm

re: #95 wrenchwench

I used a sarc tag.

Oh, it's not that you're unclear, it's that you're a perceived 'rightie'. Is that an incorrect perception? If so, how did that happen?

Because at times I dare ,, DARE I tell you, wander from the path!

97 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:41:19pm

re: #95 wrenchwench

re: #96 sattv4u2

Because at times I dare ,, DARE I tell you, wander from the path!

And because I have, I've been told that I'm an AGW denier (which i'm not) asked if I'm a creationist (again, not) have been told who I voted for (I don't even tell my wife)

98 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:41:24pm

SHOCKA!

99 wrenchwench  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:43:05pm

re: #96 sattv4u2

Because at times I dare ,, DARE I tell you, wander from the path!

What path do you wander from, and where do you go?

100 sattv4u2  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 1:45:50pm

re: #99 wrenchwench

What path do you wander from, and where do you go?

If I had a GPS I could tell you, but sadly I was held up and it was robbed!!!

//
((see what I did there!!))

101 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 23, 2012 2:01:05pm

re: #93 sattv4u2


do you agree with lapierre's suggestion that the solution to mass murders by gun is more armed guards posted in more places?

No. See how easy it is to find out what I think if only you ask

citing mall cops is is not a counter argument for my projection of what lapierre's solution might lead to in order for it to be implemented effectively

I never said it was. I simply (and factually) stated that there are now armed guards in many malls, theaters and stadiums

well, you know, i actually knew this already


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