1 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:14:35pm |
We had a white Christmas here in Chicago after all. But that does mean I'm gonna have to shovel some snow later this afternoon.
2 | darthstar Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:17:54pm |
It would make a hell of a great site for a fancy hotel/casino.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
3 | darthstar Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:23:57pm |
Sad news. One of the guys I patrol with was killed yesterday. A slope that doesn't normally slide took him down when he was out doing avalanche control. The other patrollers with him got to him quickly, but the trauma of the fall killed him, not suffocation. He was a good guy.
5 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:29:08pm |
re: #3 darthstar
Sad news. One of the guys I patrol with was killed yesterday. A slope that doesn't normally slide took him down when he was out doing avalanche control. The other patrollers with him got to him quickly, but the trauma of the fall killed him, not suffocation. He was a good guy.
Sorry for your loss. Losing a friend at Christmas would seem to be even more sucky than losing a friend at an ordinary time of year.
7 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:30:24pm |
Thanks Charles I like the updated swing style, pretty cool.
8 | darthstar Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:31:04pm |
re: #5 Dark_Falcon
Sorry for your loss. Losing a friend at Christmas would seem to be even more sucky than losing a friend at an ordinary time of year.
Our mountain has a lot of slide areas...one of the most prolific avy resorts in the country. We've been lucky not to lose anyone for several years. But it happens.
9 | Randall Gross Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:34:57pm |
I'm liking this band a lot, check this one out:
10 | Randall Gross Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:37:56pm |
Here they are live
11 | A Man for all Seasons Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:40:18pm |
re: #1 Dark_Falcon
We had a white Christmas here in Chicago after all. But that does mean I'm gonna have to shovel some snow later this afternoon.
Merry Christmas!
We have snow also but why shovel? My car is completely encased in ice.
I'm not sure what to do to get the door opened must less warm it up.
13 | PhillyPretzel Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:44:31pm |
re: #11 A Man for all Seasons
Your car has never been in an ice storm?
14 | William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:44:35pm |
re: #3 darthstar
{{{darthstar}}}
15 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:48:19pm |
re: #10 Randall Gross
Here they are live
[Embedded content]
Eltro swing/Dub step?
Interesting combination, it works.
16 | Stanghazi Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:52:24pm |
re: #3 darthstar
Sorry about your friend. That sucks.
Hope you have some sort of epic dinner planned.
Happy Christmas everyone.
17 | watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, Dec 25, 2012 12:53:55pm |
Sad...
Police investigating a Monday ambush in upstate New York in which two firefighters were killed said on Tuesday that they had located apparent human remains at the gunman’s home, and police believed they belonged to his 67-year-old sister, who lived in the house with him.
[Link: usnews.nbcnews.com...]
18 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:02:24pm |
re: #17 watching you tiny alien kittens are
Sad...
He apparently hated his sister. Damnatio Memoriae (Damned in Memory, for I am trying to avoid using his name) was simply scum, and he wanted to bring as much Hell to earth as he could before going there himself.
19 | Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:03:13pm |
re: #3 darthstar
Sorry to hear that - my condolences.
20 | Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:05:13pm |
Just checked the news - apparently the murderer in Webster NY used the same model of Bushmaster semi-auto assault rifle as Adam Lanza.
21 | Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:06:31pm |
23 | Dark_Falcon Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:08:33pm |
re: #20 Charles Johnson
Just checked the news - apparently the murderer in Webster NY used the same model of Bushmaster semi-auto assault rifle as Adam Lanza.
Yep, I saw that too. What I wonder is how he got it. That rifle was factory-fitted with a flash suppressor, which made it illegal for sale in New York State, and as a convicted felon Damnatio Memoriae was not allowed to own a gun anyhow.
24 | Eventual Carrion Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:09:17pm |
re: #21 Charles Johnson
Brownells, World's Largest Firearms Supplier, Sells 3.5 Years Worth of AR-15 Magazines in 3 Days
Guaranteeing many more years of rapid fire carnage.
25 | Kronocide Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:09:56pm |
re: #23 Dark_Falcon
Yep, I saw that too. What I wonder is how he got it. That rifle was factory-fitted with a flash suppressor, which made it illegal for sale in New York State, and as a convicted felon Damnatio Memoriae was not allowed to own a gun anyhow.
From what I've been reading, there were recent burglaries in the area with guns stolen, police suspect that is the connection. That hasn't been confirmed yet though.
26 | Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:12:30pm |
Tell you what: I'll stop confusing an automatic weapon with a semi-automatic weapon if you stop confusing the Constitution with the Bible.— serious fun (@seriousfun8309) December 20, 2012
27 | Political Atheist Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:13:16pm |
re: #3 darthstar
Sad news. One of the guys I patrol with was killed yesterday. A slope that doesn't normally slide took him down when he was out doing avalanche control. The other patrollers with him got to him quickly, but the trauma of the fall killed him, not suffocation. He was a good guy.
Oh man sorry to hear that. I had heard about the death on the news here today. You guys do some tough dangerous work. Sincere condolences.
28 | Kragar Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:13:52pm |
re: #23 Dark_Falcon
Yep, I saw that too. What I wonder is how he got it. That rifle was factory-fitted with a flash suppressor, which made it illegal for sale in New York State, and as a convicted felon Damnatio Memoriae was not allowed to own a gun anyhow.
Probably easy enough to purchase out of state and drive it back in, even if he stole it from someone else, someone brought it in from out of state easily enough.
29 | freetoken Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:18:49pm |
Ah, the joys of technology. I went to the Caravan Palace website, their MySpace page with their various recordings available to play, and the page keeps telling me that my Flash is unable to work.
Someday the internet will figure itself out.
30 | Vicious Babushka Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:19:24pm |
If you really into Gypsy/klezmer music, Gogol Bordello is Teh Shit.
31 | Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:25:59pm |
Ergh. It rained really hard Sunday night, and Monday the power blinked off in my neighborhood just for a second or so -- which was apparently enough to kill an external 1Tb drive I was using as an image backup for my main boot drive. Just found out when I noticed it wasn't showing on the desktop.
When I power up the drive it makes the dreaded clicking sound of doom. Just to make sure I'll take it out of the enclosure and try it in a dock, but it looks fried.
1TB drives are getting so cheap it's no big deal, just a reminder to plug the external drives and my RAID array into my battery backup.
32 | freetoken Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:28:43pm |
re: #20 Charles Johnson
Just checked the news - apparently the murderer in Webster NY used the same model of Bushmaster semi-auto assault rifle as Adam Lanza.
And the shooter gives the clearest reason these types of weapons exist:
Webster shooter left note detailing his plan
[...]
“I still have to get ready to see how much of the neighborhood I can burn down and do what I like doing best: killing people,” Spengler wrote in the note, which Pickering described as rambling, two-to-three pages long, and did not address motive. [...]
33 | wrenchwench Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:31:06pm |
I got 112th Congress action figures for Christmas, but the GOP ones don't bend at all.— pourmecoffee (@pourmecoffee) December 25, 2012
34 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:31:31pm |
re: #31 Charles Johnson
Ergh. It rained really hard Sunday night, and Monday the power blinked off in my neighborhood just for a second or so -- which was apparently enough to kill an external 1Tb drive I was using as an image backup for my main boot drive. Just found out when I noticed it wasn't showing on the desktop.
When I power up the drive it makes the dreaded clicking sound of doom. Just to make sure I'll take it out of the enclosure and try it in a dock, but it looks fried.
1TB drives are getting so cheap it's no big deal, just a reminder to plug the external drives and my RAID array into my battery backup.
I always recommend UPS with surge suppression and line conditioner. I can't count how many times a customer has had a system die because of power fluctuations.
Mind you it would help if they knew which side of the UPS to use for which plug.
37 | Vicious Babushka Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:40:32pm |
38 | Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:46:24pm |
Well, whaddaya know. I pulled the drive from the enclosure, stuck it in the USB dock, and it mounted right up. The La Cie enclosure was the problem.
39 | austin_blue Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:50:12pm |
re: #11 A Man for all Seasons
Merry Christmas!
We have snow also but why shovel? My car is completely encased in ice.
I'm not sure what to do to get the door opened must less warm it up.
Nice wreck on the I-40 this morning. You and Winston all buttoned up?
Oh, and Merry Christmas to all Lizardi who celebrate the day.
40 | Kronocide Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:55:25pm |
I had a 2 hr service call turn into a two days and running adventure.
Client had me replace a 6 yr old router with a new one she provided, a cheap Netgear. Complained that it didn't work after a few days.
Brought out a Linksys/Cisco as backup. Netgear worked for about 45 minutes, Cisco never worked. WiFi WAN modem works directly to my laptop. Called ISP: they say get another router.
Day 2: brought out Airport Extreme. Just for giggles, brought out second laptop and tried the Netgear again: worked fine. I surmise that the Netgear will work for 30-60 minutes then get dodgy. Airport Extreme has better WiFi so I fire it up: get it working in less than 15 minutes.
Start doing the work I was supposed to do yesterday: cannot port forward through the Airport. Weird.
After about an hour scratching my head, I lost internet with the Airport Extreme. Takes a reboot.
Summary of IT Carnage: bad modem (intermittent), 2nd router brought out bad, ISP needs to replace modem. Maybe sometime when ya'll need a good laugh I'll copy/paste the email exchange between the client and I: she asks why I didn't get the ISP to fix it.
And to boot, I'm at the inlaws with their sketchy Belkin router that drops WiFi repeatedly. My wife won't let me replace because 'they don't complain.'
Life was so much easier when I made pizza.
42 | Randall Gross Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:56:35pm |
re: #31 Charles Johnson
Ergh. It rained really hard Sunday night, and Monday the power blinked off in my neighborhood just for a second or so -- which was apparently enough to kill an external 1Tb drive I was using as an image backup for my main boot drive. Just found out when I noticed it wasn't showing on the desktop.
When I power up the drive it makes the dreaded clicking sound of doom. Just to make sure I'll take it out of the enclosure and try it in a dock, but it looks fried.
1TB drives are getting so cheap it's no big deal, just a reminder to plug the external drives and my RAID array into my battery backup.
The last resort tech trick is to wrap it in paper towels, insert it in a ziploc, and then park it in the freezer overnight. This can sometimes temporarily knit things that expired due to silicon heat death-- if it does work copy everything off it quickly, because it will have a limited life span. Most folks think that high power kills electronics but really waht kills them quickest is low power. Not enough on a -5v or -12v circuit and things can heat up pretty fast from the juice trying to bridge the circuit but failing.
43 | Randall Gross Tue, Dec 25, 2012 1:57:42pm |
re: #38 Charles Johnson
Check the enclosure, some of them are fused?
44 | Kronocide Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:00:51pm |
re: #42 Randall Gross
Most folks think that high power kills electronics but really what kills them quickest is low power.
This seems to be true. After dealing with IT in homes in Hawaii and moving to managed/monitored UPS, it's clear the there are lots of low power fluctuations that freeze processors causing the need for reboots.
I don't do any installations without a UPS on the modem/router now. I have one client with a cheap Netgear that hasn't needed a reboot in two years once I put him on a good UPS.
45 | Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:01:16pm |
re: #43 Randall Gross
Yep, looks like the enclosure's power supply circuits got hosed. It still turns on and the lights come on, but the drive doesn't get enough juice to spin up all the way.
46 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:01:54pm |
re: #40 Kronocide
I had a 2 hr service call turn into a two days and running adventure.
Client had me replace a 6 yr old router with a new one she provided, a cheap Netgear. Complained that it didn't work after a few days.
Brought out a Linksys/Cisco as backup. Netgear worked for about 45 minutes, Cisco never worked. WiFi WAN modem works directly to my laptop. Called ISP: they say get another router.
Day 2: brought out Airport Extreme. Just for giggles, brought out second laptop and tried the Netgear again: worked fine. I surmise that the Netgear will work for 30-60 minutes then get dodgy. Airport Extreme has better WiFi so I fire it up: get it working in less than 15 minutes.
Start doing the work I was supposed to do yesterday: cannot port forward through the Airport. Weird.
After about an hour scratching my head, I lost internet with the Airport Extreme. Takes a reboot.
Summary of IT Carnage: bad modem (intermittent), 2nd router brought out bad, ISP needs to replace modem. Maybe sometime when ya'll need a good laugh I'll copy/paste the email exchange between the client and I: she asks why I didn't get the ISP to fix it.
And to boot, I'm at the inlaws with their sketchy Belkin router that drops WiFi repeatedly. My wife won't let me replace because 'they don't complain.'
Life was so much easier when I made pizza.
Man, do I hear you. That is so familiar to me.
48 | Charles Johnson Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:09:11pm |
Luckily I still had time to cancel the replacement drive I ordered at Amazon. Don't really need it.
49 | A Man for all Seasons Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:11:04pm |
re: #39 austin_blue
Nice wreck on the I-40 this morning. You and Winston all buttoned up?
Oh, and Merry Christmas to all Lizardi who celebrate the day.
Merry Christmas... I let Winston open his presents a little while ago..He rips the wrapping paper to shreds when he smells treats inside. Also, the nice thing about having kids who are grown up, I just sent a card and a check and my shopping is over.
50 | Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:14:04pm |
Has the NRA came out in favor of armed guards for every fire alarm?
51 | Gus Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:14:20pm |
re: #40 Kronocide
I had a 2 hr service call turn into a two days and running adventure.
Client had me replace a 6 yr old router with a new one she provided, a cheap Netgear. Complained that it didn't work after a few days.
Brought out a Linksys/Cisco as backup. Netgear worked for about 45 minutes, Cisco never worked. WiFi WAN modem works directly to my laptop. Called ISP: they say get another router.
Day 2: brought out Airport Extreme. Just for giggles, brought out second laptop and tried the Netgear again: worked fine. I surmise that the Netgear will work for 30-60 minutes then get dodgy. Airport Extreme has better WiFi so I fire it up: get it working in less than 15 minutes.
Start doing the work I was supposed to do yesterday: cannot port forward through the Airport. Weird.
After about an hour scratching my head, I lost internet with the Airport Extreme. Takes a reboot.
Summary of IT Carnage: bad modem (intermittent), 2nd router brought out bad, ISP needs to replace modem. Maybe sometime when ya'll need a good laugh I'll copy/paste the email exchange between the client and I: she asks why I didn't get the ISP to fix it.
And to boot, I'm at the inlaws with their sketchy Belkin router that drops WiFi repeatedly. My wife won't let me replace because 'they don't complain.'
Life was so much easier when I made pizza.
It's about 1°F outside right now. Going to get colder tonight and will remain freezing all week. Inside, I'm guessing it's around 40 something degrees here. I've been freezing my ass off for over 48 hours and will likely remain this way for a week. Life sucks doesn't it?
52 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:14:38pm |
re: #50 Sol Berdinowitz
Has the NRA came out in favor of armed guards for every fire alarm?
Any minute now.
53 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:15:18pm |
re: #51 Gus
It's about 1°F outside right now. Going to get colder tonight and will remain freezing all week. Inside, I'm guessing it's around 40 something degrees here. I've been freezing my ass off for over 48 hours and will likely remain this way for a week. Life sucks doesn't it?
Turn the heat up.
54 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:16:28pm |
re: #51 Gus
It's about 1°F outside right now. Going to get colder tonight and will remain freezing all week. Inside, I'm guessing it's around 40 something degrees here. I've been freezing my ass off for over 48 hours and will likely remain this way for a week. Life sucks doesn't it?
-18F here. I froze my fingers just plugging the car in.
55 | Gus Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:16:41pm |
re: #53 b_sharp
Turn the heat up.
Pfft. I wish. Old house and Xcel energy has rates up so high that even keeping his place cold costs and arm and a leg. They raise the rates a lot around here for the usual bullshit reasons.
56 | Gus Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:18:40pm |
re: #54 b_sharp
-18F here. I froze my fingers just plugging the car in.
It's too bad that warm weather is wasted on The South. //
57 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:19:33pm |
re: #55 Gus
Pfft. I wish. Old house and Xcel energy has rates up so high that even keeping his place cold costs and arm and a leg. They raise the rates a lot around here for the usual bullshit reasons.
That fucking sucks. No central heating I assume. Does it use natural gas or electricity for heat?
58 | Decatur Deb Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:19:41pm |
re: #56 Gus
It's too bad that warm weather is wasted on The South. //
66 degrees here, under tornado watch until 10 CST. Mississippi is getting it now.
60 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:20:43pm |
re: #58 Decatur Deb
66 degrees here, under tornado watch until 10 CST. Mississippi is getting it now.
Tornado?
Send it up here, it'll freeze solid.
61 | Gus Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:21:19pm |
re: #57 b_sharp
That fucking sucks. No central heating I assume. Does it use natural gas or electricity for heat?
Gas. It's not mine. I'm in the unheated site. The heated side is barely warm. I've just got a space heater. I feel like beating the crap out of something. :D
63 | Gus Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:22:36pm |
re: #62 Stanghazi
Watching Ted. Hilarious.
Ted the movie or TED Talks. Either one can be hilarious. :O
64 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:23:07pm |
re: #61 Gus
Gas. It's not mine. I'm in the unheated site. The heated side is barely warm. I've just got a space heater. I feel like beating the crap out of something. :D
Any fan on the space heater?
66 | PhillyPretzel Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:23:45pm |
[Link: www.wunderground.com...]
The weather in NE Philly is not a pretty picture.
68 | Gus Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:24:27pm |
re: #64 b_sharp
Any fan on the space heater?
Thought about that. Might not make a difference. I can feel a fucking draft already. Been that way all day. It's like a freaking light wind.
69 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:26:54pm |
re: #66 PhillyPretzel
[Link: www.wunderground.com...]
The weather in NE Philly is not a pretty picture.
Pretty ugly here too.
[Link: www.wunderground.com...]
71 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:28:25pm |
re: #68 Gus
Thought about that. Might not make a difference. I can feel a fucking draft already. Been that way all day. It's like a freaking light wind.
So you not only have an area that's unheated, but it has air leaks and probably little if any insulation.
You'd be better off in an igloo.
73 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:33:38pm |
Apropos of nothing, Jan 3, 2013 will be my 36th wedding anniversary.
74 | Stanghazi Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:35:06pm |
re: #73 b_sharp
Apropos of nothing, Jan 3, 2013 will be my 36th wedding anniversary.
Holy shit! Congrats. Plan something great.
75 | austin_blue Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:36:34pm |
re: #69 b_sharp
Pretty ugly here too.
[Link: www.wunderground.com...]
Well, look on the bright side! You'll be in positive numbers by Saturday. ;-)
This is why I live in Austin:
[Link: www.wunderground.com...]
People will bitch and moan in the AM about how frigid it is. Pffft. Native Texans. Soft. After living for three years in Marquette, MI, I know from winter, and why I loathe it.
76 | Gus Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:37:15pm |
re: #73 b_sharp
Apropos of nothing, Jan 3, 2013 will be my 36th wedding anniversary.
That'll give you the chance to bone China. /
77 | austin_blue Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:38:57pm |
78 | wilburs Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:39:29pm |
re: #38 Charles Johnson
Well, whaddaya know. I pulled the drive from the enclosure, stuck it in the USB dock, and it mounted right up. The La Cie enclosure was the problem.
I have 9 external drives which I have bought over the last 10 years and filled with music. They all still work perfectly, except for the one LaCie drive, which died immediately after I finished filling it.
I think it is still in the closet somewhere, i guess i should pull it out and take it apart to see if it can be salvaged.
79 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:39:57pm |
re: #74 Stanghazi
Holy shit! Congrats. Plan something great.
We are going to the hot-springs and then to a decent restaurant.
80 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:40:42pm |
re: #76 Gus
That'll give you the chance to bone China. /
My wife may have something to say about that. Meddling woman.
81 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:42:13pm |
re: #75 austin_blue
Well, look on the bright side! You'll be in positive numbers by Saturday. ;-)
This is why I live in Austin:
[Link: www.wunderground.com...]
People will bitch and moan in the AM about how frigid it is. Pffft. Native Texans. Soft. After living for three years in Marquette, MI, I know from winter, and why I loathe it.
I'm not a big fan of winter either. Some days I wish global warming would hit here.
82 | Stanghazi Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:42:32pm |
re: #79 b_sharp
We are going to the hot-springs and then to a decent restaurant.
sounds good! again, 36 years is a thing of beauty.
83 | b_sharp Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:43:33pm |
re: #82 Stanghazi
sounds good! again, 36 years is a thing of beauty.
It's been tough. Lots of low and high points.
84 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:53:38pm |
re: #75 austin_blue
Well, look on the bright side! You'll be in positive numbers by Saturday. ;-)
This is why I live in Austin:
[Link: www.wunderground.com...]
People will bitch and moan in the AM about how frigid it is. Pffft. Native Texans. Soft. After living for three years in Marquette, MI, I know from winter, and why I loathe it.
I spent 2 years at KI Sawyer AFB in the early 80s. I have never complained about cold weather after living up there.
85 | William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:54:16pm |
re: #73 b_sharp
Apropos of nothing, Jan 3, 2013 will be my 36th wedding anniversary.
We'll be halfway to that on the 31st.
86 | Kronocide Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:58:45pm |
re: #51 Gus
It's about 1°F outside right now. Going to get colder tonight and will remain freezing all week. Inside, I'm guessing it's around 40 something degrees here. I've been freezing my ass off for over 48 hours and will likely remain this way for a week. Life sucks doesn't it?
OK, you win.
87 | austin_blue Tue, Dec 25, 2012 2:59:25pm |
re: #84 NJDhockeyfan
I spent 2 years at KI Sawyer AFB in the early 80s. I have never complained about cold weather after living up there.
Were you there for the Giant Lance generation in January of '81? Seemed like half the FMS Squadron ended up in the hospital with frostbite. We were all in full arctic gear up in the cockpits and were still freezing our asses off.
89 | NJDhockeyfan Tue, Dec 25, 2012 4:08:28pm |
re: #87 austin_blue
Were you there for the Giant Lance generation in January of '81? Seemed like half the FMS Squadron ended up in the hospital with frostbite. We were all in full arctic gear up in the cockpits and were still freezing our asses off.
I missed that by a year. It was damn cold enough. They wouldn't closed the flight line for the workers until it was -50 degrees. They would wait until the barometer was right in -50 before they shut it down.