Right Wing Target of the Day: Sen. Dianne Feinstein

Wingnut pushback against gun control legislation goes all the way nuts
Wingnuts • Views: 34,239

California Senator Dianne Feinstein is planning to introduce a bill in January that would ban the sale of military-style assault weapons, and this has driven the right wing nuts (a short drive) — because Feinstein’s bill also covers semi-automatic handguns.

As the horror of the Newtown massacre begins to get less immediate, the right wing blogs and news sites are predictably starting to push back against any effort to get between them and the object of their affections, firearms.

For example, Drudge Report skips Go, goes directly to Crazy, linking to Feinstein’s site three times on his front page, including the all-caps screaming headline: “CIVIL WAR: SENATE TO GO FOR HANDGUNS!”

Drudge’s ludicrous headline has a picture of an antique revolver, which would not be prohibited under Feinstein’s bill; the bill specifically applies only to military-style semi-automatic weapons.

The Breitbrats are busily attacking Feinstein as well, with another paranoid article warning that this is only the beginning of the true liberal plan, which is to GRAB ALL THE GUNZ: SEN. FEINSTEIN’S ‘ASSAULT WEAPON’ BAN REALLY HANDGUN BAN!

…an even bigger problem lurks — right now the focus is only on “assault weapons” and semi-auto handguns, however, as soon as a public crime is committed with a double-action revolver, Feinstein and Co. will try to add those to the list as well.

The bottom line: If we are foolish enough to embrace a ban on any weapon in the coming Congress then we are unwittingly embracing a ban on every weapon.

The Democrats cannot be trusted with our freedoms, and they will politicize every tragedy to accomplish their ends.

That’s right, Democrats hate freedom and want to take away all the guns! We can’t give an inch, people, or it’s game over!

DERP

Jim Hoft, Dumbest Man on the Internet, provides a little inadvertent humor as he hammers away at the same line, treating us to the spectacle of the most illiterate blogger on the web bashing Sen. Feinstein for misspelling a word: Democrats Announce Plans to Go After Handguns.

More… Did anyone else notice the good senator used the word “devises” when she meant “devices”? If she’s going to take away our guns is it too much to ask that she use the correct words?

(The typo is now corrected on Feinstein’s site.)

Power Line’s John Hinderaker is also warning that the Democratic Party is COMING FOR THE GUNZ: Democrats Seek the Holy Grail of Gun Control.

For the reasons noted, some clarification is required before we can understand the full scope of Feinstein’s proposal. It is hard to say, at this point, whether it is merely grandstanding by Feinstein that will soon be forgotten, or whether it represents the first shot in an all-out war against gun owners (i.e., red America) by the Democratic Party.

The Daily Caller has a special “ALERT!” Alert: Sen. Diane Feinstein Releases Gun Ban Summary for 2013.

The Blaze is also stoking the fears of gun-lovers: Sen. Feinstein Posts Proposed ‘Assault Weapons’ Legislation — and It Includes Provisions on Handguns and ‘Grandfathered’ Weapons.

You can find the very same talking points being parroted at virtually every right wing blog and news site today; the ones that aren’t writing about it yet soon will be.

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208 comments
1 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:47:52pm

This should sell even more guns as well as being a great fund raising tool for the Right. of course, no gun control measure has even the slightest chance of passing the House.

2 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:48:05pm

We will now see cap and ball revolvers added to the gun-buying stampede.

3 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:49:46pm

Nevermind, right-wing nuts, not wingnuts (I'm so used to seeing wingnuts I got confuzzed.)

4 Kid A  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:49:57pm

"Bad craziness" is in the definition of right-winger. Look it up.

5 Kid A  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:51:09pm

re: #3 Ghost of Tom Joad

Small grammatical error in the 1st paragraph. Not tryin' to be an ass, just helpin' a brother out. Assuming you wanted to say "has driven the right wing nuts crazy."

Actually, I think the way he wrote that is correct, though I would hyphenate "right-wing," yes?

6 b_sharp  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:52:20pm

To tighten a nut, all you need is a driver.

7 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:53:35pm

It's funny how for years the NRA and their ilk were screaming "Obama is just waiting to get re-elected before he comes after the guns!" because up until this point there hasn't been a peep about them.

Cruel timing which is just helping to feed the nutters and their persecution complex.

8 aagcobb  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:55:10pm

re: #3 Ghost of Tom Joad

Small grammatical error in the 1st paragraph. Not tryin' to be an ass, just helpin' a brother out. Assuming you wanted to say "has driven the right wing nuts crazy."

If "right wing" is a noun, as I assume he meant it to be, it is correct.

9 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:55:27pm

Crapo must have misheard; thought they were coming for his vodka shots.

10 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:56:24pm

Feinstein wants a gun ban, period. She's been a true believer on the subject since she found Milk after his shooting (5 shots, two in the head) and is truly paranoid about guns. THAT said, her bill is her usual overreach.

Her bill has been introduced every session since the 1994 law sunset. I don't believe it got out of committee. This time, with her bill, it will be no different.

I do believe something will pass this time and it will be more than the 1994 AWB. I fully expect an expansion of the NFA but I do believe it can be done without causing significant inconvenience to the vast majority of gun owners.

I wrote my thoughts to the Vice President already, it's over in pages if you want to read them. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

11 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:57:37pm

re: #8 aagcobb

If "right wing" is a noun, as I assume he meant it to be, it is correct.

I edited it, I'm so used to seeing the term "wingnuts" that I assumed there was something missing after.

12 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:58:11pm

Aaaand in the end, it will all come to nothing since there is no chance in hell that any GOP House leader will ever put this up for a vote.

The NRA could have actually helped do something that would have been able to pass both houses and maybe save a few lives. Now we get nothing at all.

13 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:58:35pm

I'm not very hopeful about any sort of ban. I think they will be impossible to pass and difficult to enforce. I'm going to work on supporting the idea of liability insurance for gun owners and let the private market price the risk. I can see no other way to begin to reduce gun violence.

14 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 12:59:30pm

Heh, just thought of a great proposal for Obama:

"I tell you what Mr. Boehner, I will agree to continue the Bush tax cuts for all income brackets if you will agree to an assault weapons ban."

15 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:00:45pm

Mass hysteria! Run for the hills!

16 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:01:20pm

re: #12 celticdragon

Any gun legislation is likely to be DOA in the House, no matter how many Senators sign on to a Senate originated bill.

17 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:02:27pm

re: #14 dragonfire1981

Heh, just thought of a great proposal for Obama:

"I tell you what Mr. Boehner, I will agree to continue the Bush tax cuts for all income brackets if you will agree to an assault weapons ban."

Wouldn't work. Wayne is far more feared than Grover.

18 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:02:29pm

re: #10 William Barnett-Lewis

Feinstein found her friend shot to death, but she's "paranoid" about guns?

19 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:03:38pm

re: #10 William Barnett-Lewis

Just read through it quickly, and it looks good. There's surely plenty of things that can be nit-picked, but anything at this point is better than the status-quo.

20 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:03:44pm

re: #10 William Barnett-Lewis

I do think that Feinstein is a true believer on banning guns of any sort if she could. She is not actually helping her case when she is always the one to push for comprehensive bans of one sort or another.

We need a pro gun rights Democrat like Kirsten Gillibrand or Max Baucus to introduce something that would give cover to other gun owners to get behind and support. Feinstein is pretty much universally loathed in the gun owning community as far as I can tell.

(Note, yeah, she is the one who found Milk when he was shot and her fingers actually slid inside a bullet hole in his arm when she tried to apply pressure to the wound. She had confronted the killer, former assembly man Dan White as he was on the way to shoot Mayor Moscony. I well imagine that would kind of freak a person out about guns)

21 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:03:48pm

I can sympathize with Feinstein's approach and proposals, but that will never ever happen. Never make it out of committee, let alone get a vote in the House (or pass the House). It's the equivalent of tilting at windmills, but it does have the effect of galvanizing the gun rights folks who think this is yet another attempt to take away their guns.

Feinstein has been proposing this kind of legislation for years on end to no avail. Newtown and the Rochester FD murders didn't change that calculus for all the grief wrought by the gunmen and the guns they used.

I'm with William on this.

22 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:04:13pm

Heh heh. Love it.

23 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:04:27pm

re: #18 Charles Johnson

Feinstein found her friend shot to death, but she's "paranoid" about guns?

Irrational fear is still irrational. She is not the one you want leading if you actually want to accomplish anything.

24 Tim Nadeau  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:04:28pm

Liability risk insurance sounds like a good idea to me. If people had to pay insurance on each gun, they might think twice about purchasing one.

25 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:05:14pm

OT, but it's amazing what quirky songs jump into my head at random times.

Currently playing: "Brimful of Asha"

26 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:05:44pm

re: #24 Tim Nadeau

Liability risk insurance sounds like a good idea to me. If people had to pay insurance on each gun, they might think twice about purchasing one.

Or make them watch a very graphic gun violence video beforehand.

27 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:07:10pm

re: #23 William Barnett-Lewis

What sounds a little paranoid to me is thinking that Feinstein is planning to take away all guns, when her bill says nothing of the sort.

28 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:07:37pm

re: #26 dragonfire1981

Or make them watch a very graphic gun violence video beforehand.

Which would only reinforce the need to have guns for a lot of folks. You don't understand how that works.

Showing pictures of children accidentally killed by their parents guns might work, but nothing else would.

I never keep a loaded weapon in the house because of that risk.

29 lawhawk  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:08:44pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

It goes with the mindset if you come for one, you're coming for 'em all. The slippery slope is slippery after all.

Even a reasonable restriction or something along the lines of the original assault weapons ban wouldn't see the light of day in the current political cesspool in the House.

30 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:08:49pm

re: #24 Tim Nadeau I first read about the idea on Kevin Drum's blog. I've been looking it up and there are many ways that it could work. I can post info if people are interested.

In following our national discussion shouting match over the past 10-15 years I just don't see any way for Dems to pass a ban, and I just don't think they are very effective.

31 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:09:14pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

What sounds a little paranoid to me is thinking that Feinstein is planning to take away all guns, when her bill says nothing of the sort.

in the wingnut mind, what is imagined or feared is already fact

the liberal bias of reality must be corrected at every step

32 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:10:02pm

Frankly, I think the best thing that could be done to prevent gun violence is a two year mandatory national service. Spend a week on a rifle range with armed DI's and you learn quickly there is nothing particularly glamorous about guns.

33 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:10:02pm

Why exactly do people need semi-automatic handguns, anyway?

Why should I be against banning them?

34 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:10:50pm

I full support putting a cap on magazine size. In fact I would like it at 6 rounds maximum. But I think adding the words "assault weapon" has no meaning, and "military style" has even less.

For example, the H&K SL-6 is a rifle that fires high velocity .223 rounds, like the bushmaster, but it's stock and body are wood. It looks like a hunting rifle, but it's operational characteristics are essentially the same as an other small caliber, high velocity, high rate of fire rifle.

35 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:12:24pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Why exactly do people need semi-automatic handguns, anyway?

Why should I be against banning them?

Personally for me, I like being able to target shoot without having to cock it every time.

36 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:13:26pm

re: #34 uncah91

That's why when a gun is denoted as an "assault weapon" they need to forget about looks and focus on functionality. I think WBL mentioned it in his LGF page.

37 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:13:41pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Why exactly do people need semi-automatic handguns, anyway?

Why should I be against banning them?

I have no problem with banning them. What I see that IS a problem is that I don't believe we can get anything even close to that passed. I wish it were different, but too many people won't consider it.

When people first started working on regulating smoking it didn't seem like it would be very effective, but now, 20 years later, it's just accepted. I think gun liability could produce the same results. It just won't happen quickly; but maybe it will at least happen.

38 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:14:25pm

Given our national level political institutions' comatose movement on nearly any issue, I suspect as with gay marriage that a state level movement is what will be needed to change the tilt of gun laws.

E.g., what is to prevent a state from requiring liability insurance for the possession of every gun?

39 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:14:43pm

re: #29 lawhawk

It goes with the mindset if you come for one, you're coming for 'em all. The slippery slope is slippery after all.

Even a reasonable restriction or something along the lines of the original assault weapons ban wouldn't see the light of day in the current political cesspool in the House.

Back in the 70's, people like senators Howard Metzenbaum and Alan Cranston really were trying to implement the 'slippery slope' approach to banning guns. The first Brady Bill was to have been followed by the second Brady Bill which actually was rather outrageous in what it was to accomplish...and the Brady Campaign, the AARP(!), various pediatric doctors groups et al were not shy about trying to ban all firearms in private possession.

That was then and this is now. Just like some folks think that Reagan slogans are still the only way forward and that we are facing economic problems from 1978, many gun owners still seem to think that the Cranstons and Metzenbaums are still running senate committees and are one vote away from grabbing Grandpa's .30-30 rifle.

40 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:15:14pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Why exactly do people need semi-automatic handguns, anyway?

Why should I be against banning them?

that's why

41 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:16:57pm

re: #38 freetoken

Given our national level political institutions' comatose movement on nearly any issue, I suspect as with gay marriage that a state level movement is what will be needed to change the tilt of gun laws.

E.g., what is to prevent a state from requiring liability insurance for the possession of every gun?

That's what I'm thinking about working on because state law might be easier. Especially here in MN where the Dems just took control of all three branches. Nobody is taking away your guns, you just have to buy liability.

Moreover, the market should be efficient at weighing the risks. Insurers specialize in figuring out the odds of something going wrong and charging the appropriate amount. Car insurance premiums are based on both the driver and the vehicle. A 19-year-old man with a Porsche and a history of moving violations pays far more than a 40-year-old minivan driver with a clean record.

So a shotgun owner who has hunted for years without incident could be charged far less than a first-time owner purchasing a semi-automatic. In other words, people would be financially discouraged from purchasing the most risky firearms and encouraged to attend gun safety classes and use trigger locks. And the insurance could provide some restitution for those hurt by guns.

42 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:17:07pm

re: #37 JoyousMN

Seems that one of the biggest obstacles to an honest attempt to deal with America's horrible addiction to guns is the sense of defeatism about ever being able to effect a change.

43 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:17:35pm

re: #36 Ghost of Tom Joad

That's why when a gun is denoted as an "assault weapon" they need to forget about looks and focus on functionality. I think WBL mentioned it in his LGF page.

I'll check out the page.

I just think talking about "assault weapons", which doesn't really have a functional meaning, is less likely to generate results than saying "magazine size limits", which is very clear to everyone, especially gun owners who are amenable to doing something to limit the damage caused by mass shootings.

44 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:17:40pm

re: #40 The Mountain That Blogs

In that case, we'll all need anti-aircraft batteries.

45 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:18:53pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Much better choice of calibers, less recoil, easier for women to use, better ergonomics. Along with rate and quantity of fire, automatic pistols are pretty much superior in most aspects when your life depends on it.

That being said, I think the old Ruger Blackhawk single six is still a hell of a lot of fun to shoot.

46 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:19:48pm

re: #42 Charles Johnson

Seems that one of the biggest obstacles to an honest attempt to deal with America's horrible addiction to guns is the sense of defeatism about ever being able to effect a change.

You may be right. I've thought about that too. But given that we can't even seem to get congress to pass a must pass bill by the end of the year, I'm just not very optimistic. But I also think liability might end up being a BETTER way to go. Insurance companies won't let loopholes develop. If a gun is really dangerous, rates will go up. And over time my hope is that gun owners will get safer and smarter.

47 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:20:32pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Why exactly do people need semi-automatic handguns, anyway?

Why should I be against banning them?

Personally, I prefer revolvers. That said, why should my wife not be able to have a Colt Series 80 1911 pistol for target shooting or hunting? We have a gun safe and our child has been taught gun safety for over half of his nearly 11 years.

48 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:21:01pm

I heard an NRA shill on NPR a couple of days ago say that there are 400 million guns in the US.

For some reason, that doesn't make me feel safe.

49 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:21:16pm

re: #38 freetoken

Is that really going to stop people who want to use them for nefarious purposes? Yes, it will eventually lead to less weapons around, but I think that would wind up having a much larger effect on collectors and casual shooters than preventing actual gun-related crime. .02$ anyway.

50 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:21:30pm

re: #44 jaunte

In that case, we'll all need anti-aircraft batteries.

The Imperial Guard Hydra flak tank is my personal choice. Just the thing to deal with xenos scum and their aircraft...

52 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:21:55pm

OT, but I really can't stand the crappy build quality on toys these days.

I remember growing up in the 80s I had G.I. Joes, Transformers and Ninja turtles toys that could take a serious beating and still work fine. The stuff today is practically too flimsy to be any good.

53 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:22:38pm

re: #48 Charles Johnson

I heard an NRA shill on NPR a couple of days ago say that there are 400 million guns in the US.

For some reason, that doesn't make me feel safe.

No, not really.

54 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:23:57pm

re: #50 celticdragon

The Imperial Guard Hydra flak tank is my personal choice. Just the thing to deal with xenos scum and their aircraft...

Can't go wrong with a Leman Russ Executioner.

55 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:24:13pm

re: #52 dragonfire1981

OT, but I really can't stand the crappy build quality on toys these days.

I remember growing up in the 80s I had G.I. Joes, Transformers and Ninja turtles toys that could take a serious beating and still work fine. The stuff today is practically too flimsy to be any good.

I think the Papo figures are actually pretty good, and better then the action figures I had as a kid.

56 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:24:14pm

re: #38 freetoken

Given our national level political institutions' comatose movement on nearly any issue, I suspect as with gay marriage that a state level movement is what will be needed to change the tilt of gun laws.

E.g., what is to prevent a state from requiring liability insurance for the possession of every gun?

Well, how the SC interprets the 2nd Ammendment might prevent that requirement.

57 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:24:46pm

re: #52 dragonfire1981

OT, but I really can't stand the crappy build quality on toys these days.

I remember growing up in the 80s I had G.I. Joes, Transformers and Ninja turtles toys that could take a serious beating and still work fine. The stuff today is practically too flimsy to be any good.

It's nothing more than shirking production costs in order to generate more profit. Less quality in a product means 1. smaller production costs (and overseas manufacturing) and 2. you'll need to buy more toys because they keep breaking (and to keep the little terrorist happy).

58 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:25:43pm

re: #49 Ghost of Tom Joad

I've sort of given up on any relatively quick solution.

In the long term, if we can:

(1) reduce the production of guns (perhaps by requiring manufacturers to pay taxes for prevention programs, etc.);
(2) reduce the transfer of guns (by requiring background checks for every transfer);
(3) require owners to be insured and licensed;

then perhaps over time the violent use of guns will diminish.

The last one, by requiring licensing, we can also address the "mental health" issue.

Given that the Constitution is now viewed as an Holy document, breathed without error by God, it has become impossible to change, no matter how outdated or wrong (in the real world) it is.

59 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:28:06pm

I keep thinking back to smoking, and limiting where people can smoke. Before the 1970's it just wasn't an issue. But states like MN began to pass laws restricting where people could smoke--they didn't try to totally ban it, just began to change attitudes. And if YOU are held accountable/liable for what happens with your weapon then I think you will secure it better, and maybe not buy a very dangerous one in the first place.

re: #56 uncah91 The argument has been made the the damage caused by firearms gives the government "compelling interest" to require insurance. Not sure our current SCOTUS would follw that reasoning, but chances are they won't support a ban either.

60 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:28:15pm

re: #47 William Barnett-Lewis

That said, why should my wife not be able to have a Colt Series 80 1911 pistol for target shooting or hunting?

Because widely prevalent handguns are the direct cause of thousands of unnecessary deaths a year, and they serve no purpose save entertainment.

61 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:28:50pm

re: #58 freetoken

I've sort of given up on any relatively quick solution.

In the long term, if we can:

(1) reduce the production of guns (perhaps by requiring manufacturers to pay taxes for prevention programs, etc.);
(2) reduce the transfer of guns (by requiring background checks for every transfer);
(3) require owners to be insured and licensed;

then perhaps over time the violent use of guns will diminish.

The last one, by requiring licensing, we can also address the "mental health" issue.

Given that the Constitution is now viewed as an Holy document, breathed without error by God, it has become impossible to change, no matter how outdated or wrong (in the real world) it is.

Well, the 14th Amendment was snuck in there by heathens apparently.
/

62 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:29:01pm

re: #58 freetoken

I've sort of given up on any relatively quick solution.

In the long term, if we can:

(1) reduce the production of guns (perhaps by requiring manufacturers to pay taxes for prevention programs, etc.);
(2) reduce the transfer of guns (by requiring background checks for every transfer);
(3) require owners to be insured and licensed;

then perhaps over time the violent use of guns will diminish.

The last one, by requiring licensing, we can also address the "mental health" issue.

Given that the Constitution is now viewed as an Holy document, breathed without error by God, it has become impossible to change, no matter how outdated or wrong (in the real world) it is.

If we want to go back to 18th Century originalism, then all long-gun owners aged 16 to 65 would be showing up for militia duty muster once a month under the direction of the local law enforcement authority to train or engage in civic works projects, and would be expected to be on call to help with missing persons, disasters and other emergencies.

63 Hawaii69  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:29:21pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Why exactly do people need semi-automatic handguns, anyway?

Why should I be against banning them?

So, revolvers for all?

I think he gun genie was out of the bottle a long time ago. I don't see where banning them would do anything but create a War on Guns, similar to the War on Drugs. Even assuming, in an extreme case, it were possible to ban them, take them back from owners both legal & illegal (a big mess and an impossibility, respectively), and make new ones illegal, I just see a huge demand created. Drug cartels would become gun cartels, and the Russians and Chinese would have a field day smuggling weapons into the United States to meet demand.

This wouldn't be anything new for the Chinese. Their intelligence services were caught doing just this in the 1990's, in an effort to destabilize.

I really don't see a good answer.

The Right Wing may do a lot of alarmist shrieking on a wide variety
of subjects, but they're right about one thing: If Diane Feinstein had her way, she would ban all guns. Her proposed ban is just the best she thinks she can push through.

64 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:29:24pm

re: #49 Ghost of Tom Joad

Is that really going to stop people who want to use them for nefarious purposes? Yes, it will eventually lead to less weapons around, but I think that would wind up having a much larger effect on collectors and casual shooters than preventing actual gun-related crime. .02$ anyway.

Gun ownership in the U.S. can be a very casual undertaking, as it stands now. If this proposal were to pass SC muster, it would do a great deal to change that.

"True" criminals are only one small part of gun deaths in the U.S.

65 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:30:59pm

re: #47 William Barnett-Lewis

That said, why should my wife not be able to have a Colt Series 80 1911 pistol for target shooting or hunting?

Because the rest of us want to require something of all of us: the right to live in a society without the fear of being shot 24/7.

I have no problem with your wife having a Colt Series 80 1911 pistol, but I demand that she be of sound mind, and carry insurance for the accidental or intentional misuse of said weapon.

66 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:31:37pm

re: #60 Renaissance_Man

Because widely prevalent handguns are the direct cause of thousands of unnecessary deaths a year, and they serve no purpose save entertainment.

And you folks wonder why the far right is freaking out? Lots of us out here in flyover, of left & right political persuasions, think very differently.

67 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:32:37pm

re: #59 JoyousMN

The argument has been made the the damage caused by firearms gives the government "compelling interest" to require insurance. Not sure our current SCOTUS would follw that reasoning, but chances are they won't support a ban either.

Magazine limits are already the law of the land in many states. I think those limits would likely be constitutional on a federal level.

69 Hawaii69  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:32:42pm

re: #48 Charles Johnson

I heard an NRA shill on NPR a couple of days ago say that there are 400 million guns in the US.

For some reason, that doesn't make me feel safe.

And just to be clear on my last post, the rhetoric of both the fervently pro-gun people, and fervently anti-gun people, make me cringe.

It's lonely in the middle.

70 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:34:05pm

re: #58 freetoken

At this point, I think my biggest hope is just to find a way to keep guns from getting into the wrong hands (cue the ponies, unicorns, and pots 'o gold). Of course, anything that has a possible chance at denting the profit-margin of the wealthy gun manufacturers has 0 chance at passing.

A good start would be to find a way to code each firearm so that it can't be tampered with, and register that weapon to each owner. Every sale requires a back-round check, and every sale requires the weapon to be registered with the new owner. Start finding ways to make weapon owners culpable for crimes committed with their weapons (obviously if it's legitimately stolen it won't apply, but this is all about trying to eliminate straw purchases and forcing people to properly secure their weapons in safes).

I think that alone would be a huge start. Has nothing to do with banning anything, and legitimate, law-abiding owners and purchasers should really have nothing to fear (yes, I own weapons and have a very hefty safe for them--disclaimer).

71 efuseakay  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:34:43pm

Heh... I have a Walther PPQ, and a Beretta PX4 Storm. I'm not at all afraid the gummint comin' fer muh gunz!!!!

72 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:35:00pm

re: #65 freetoken

Because the rest of us want to require something of all of us: the right to live in a society without the fear of being shot 24/7.

I have no problem with your wife having a Colt Series 80 1911 pistol, but I demand that she be of sound mind, and carry insurance for the accidental or intentional misuse of said weapon.

Yes. I think we have given over all the right to gun owners for too long now. I want them to start accepting some level of responsibility.So I may not be able to stop someone from buying an AR-15, but I can insist that they pay a cost for owning such a dangerous weapon.

If my dog bites someone I am liable. If my gun is used to shoot someone I should be equally liable.

And maybe if an insurance agent had to talk to Nancy Lanza they would have said, YOU are fine, here's the cost to insure you. BUT you have a 20 yo unemployed male with a history of mental issues in your house, so we can't even write you a policy.

73 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:35:08pm

Gun homicides by country.

74 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:35:45pm

re: #69 Hawaii69

And just to be clear on my last post, the rhetoric of both the fervently pro-gun people, and fervently anti-gun people, make me cringe.

It's lonely in the middle.

So what is it about anti-gun rhetoric that makes you cringe? Is it just crazy talk to suggest that guns are dangerous and cause far too many unnecessary deaths?

75 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:35:51pm

re: #69 Hawaii69

And just to be clear on my last post, the rhetoric of both the fervently pro-gun people, and fervently anti-gun people, make me cringe.

It's lonely in the middle.

The same is pretty much true for the heavily pro and heavily anti on just about any issue: Abortion, immigration, same sex marriage, etc.

76 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:37:04pm

re: #70 Ghost of Tom Joad

Agree with all your points too. There should be no reason guns aren't registered, and with sn that can't be filed off

77 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:37:17pm

re: #74 Renaissance_Man

So what is it about anti-gun rhetoric that makes you cringe? Is it just crazy talk to suggest that guns are dangerous and cause far too many unnecessary deaths?

The idea that people who own guns are de facto irresponsible, violent, evil, etc.

78 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:38:22pm

re: #66 William Barnett-Lewis

And you folks wonder why the far right is freaking out? Lots of us out here in flyover, of left & right political persuasions, think very differently.

They are freaking out because they are delusional cultists. They freak out when the President goes to a soccer game. As delusional cultists, whether or not they freak out is moot. What matters is what is right and what is possible.

79 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:38:35pm

re: #77 uncah91

The idea that people who own guns are de facto irresponsible, violent, evil, etc.

But no one is saying that, are they?

80 Charles Johnson  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:38:43pm

Look on the bright side - the US still has a lower gun homicide rate than Honduras, El Salvador, Jamaica, Venezuela, and Guatemala.

81 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:39:03pm

re: #77 uncah91

The idea that people who own guns are de facto irresponsible, violent, evil, etc.

Ah. Good thing you're here then, where nobody is suggesting that.

82 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:39:14pm

re: #74 Renaissance_Man

So what is it about anti-gun rhetoric that makes you cringe? Is it just crazy talk to suggest that guns are dangerous and cause far too many unnecessary deaths?

Your apparent presumption that all gun owners are inherently psychotic.

83 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:40:12pm

The presence of guns means there is a risk of gun violence. No matter who owns the guns.

84 Hawaii69  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:40:55pm

re: #74 Renaissance_Man

So what is it about anti-gun rhetoric that makes you cringe? Is it just crazy talk to suggest that guns are dangerous and cause far too many unnecessary deaths?

I said "Fervent". "Fervent" tends to be prone to hyperbole, logical inconsistency, unyielding ideological purity, and unrealistic expectations in the face of reality.

85 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:40:55pm

re: #82 William Barnett-Lewis

Your apparent presumption that all gun owners are inherently psychotic.

So, do you think requiring both the licensing of an automobile and the driver for said driver to operate said vehicle is a presumption that the driver is "inherently psychotic"?

86 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:41:10pm

re: #79 JoyousMN

But no one is saying that, are they?

Ex: Why would anyone need/want a semi-automatic gun?

Look at a how hunters have been portrayed in popular culture from the movie Bambi forward...

87 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:41:17pm

Gun related violence by city

Cities with the Highest Rates of Total Gun-Related Deaths
(per 100,000 people)
Rank City City Rate Metro Rate City/Metro
Ratio
1 New Orleans 69.1 32.8 2.1
2 Detroit 41.4 14.8 2.8
3 Las Vegas 36.9 17.6 2.1
4 Miami 33.5 11.7 2.9
5 Baltimore 33.1 15.2 2.2
6 St. Louis 31.1 14.0 2.2
7 Richmond 29.9 15.7 1.9
8 Memphis 25.5 19.8 1.3
9 Cleveland 25.2 10.9 2.3
10 Philadelphia 24.3 12.4 2.0

88 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:41:40pm

re: #75 dragonfire1981

The same is pretty much true for the heavily pro and heavily anti on just about any issue: Abortion, immigration, same sex marriage, etc.

This. On almost any issue, most of the country is somewhere in the squishy middle (like a Twinkie). It's the crusty ends that scream the loudest, and when one side screams, the other end has to respond.

89 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:41:52pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

Look on the bright side - the US still has a lower gun homicide rate than Honduras, El Salvador, Jamaica, Venezuela, and Guatemala.

Or murder riddled Lichtenstein.

90 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:42:52pm

re: #78 Renaissance_Man

They are freaking out because they are delusional cultists. They freak out when the President goes to a soccer game. As delusional cultists, whether or not they freak out is moot. What matters is what is right and what is possible.

"whoooooooo

could imagine

that they would FREAK OUT

in kansas"

- uncle frank

91 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:43:15pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

Look on the bright side - the US still has a lower gun homicide rate than Honduras, El Salvador, Jamaica, Venezuela, and Guatemala.

Three of those nations have been running a low-level revolutionary/civil war for years, another one could be driven to civil war once its failing leader finally dies, and the other (Jamaica) is noted for having a gang-land atmosphere and de facto governance by crime syndicates.

What a company we keep.

92 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:44:29pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

Look on the bright side - the US still has a lower gun homicide rate than Honduras, El Salvador, Jamaica, Venezuela, and Guatemala.

But it's homicide rates overall that really matter. Take away every single gun homicide and the U.S. homicide rates are still over most western industrialized countries...

93 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:44:41pm

re: #85 freetoken

As I pointed out above I am in favor of something far more restrictive than the automobile drivers license.

94 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:45:35pm

re: #86 uncah91

Ex: Why would anyone need/want a semi-automatic gun?

Look at a how hunters have been portrayed in popular culture from the movie Bambi forward...

Look, I know that there are many people who would be just as happy with a law banning all guns, but that isn't going to happen and it isn't what most of us are talking about here. I know, I've had many conversations with gun owners over the past two weeks and it goes like this:

me: maybe we should talk about ways that we could all be safer.
them: YOU WANT TO BAN ALL GUNS.

It's like the old Gary Larson cartoons, What you say vs what your pet hears. But we have to find some way to talk about this. I'm just not willing to let nothing happen again. 20 first graders butchered in a classroom after all the other mass shootings, is just too much. We HAVE to find a way forward on this issue.

95 Bulworth  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:45:38pm

No matter how many people, or even children, die, guns can never ever be regulated in any way, according to RWNJ. The right to own any kind of gun, regardless of lethality, cannot be restricted in any way, ever.

However, the mere potential that someone somewhere might vote using a deceased person's name, or that someone might vote twice in the same election in the same or different jurisdictions, is all the evidence we need to restrict the right to vote. /

96 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:46:16pm

One thing is certain. There will be more slaughter.

97 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:46:34pm

re: #85 freetoken

So, do you think requiring both the licensing of an automobile and the driver for said driver to operate said vehicle is a presumption that the driver is "inherently psychotic"?

i agree with you; on the other hand, i'm not certain that any homo sapiens sapiens could be certified as not "inherently psychotic"

98 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:48:38pm

If we can register, regulate and insure cars, why can't we do the same thing for guns?

99 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:49:56pm

re: #86 uncah91

Ex: Why would anyone need/want a semi-automatic gun?

Look at a how hunters have been portrayed in popular culture from the movie Bambi forward...

Asking why a dangerous device is needed suddenly becomes a presumption of mental illness? Methinks someone doth protest too much.

re: #82 William Barnett-Lewis

Your apparent presumption that all gun owners are inherently psychotic.

I sense a certain hypersensitivity on the part of some.

Good.

The analogy to smoking is a good one. They are addictive entertainment habits that have a chance to cause harm or death to both self and others. Banning either outright is not possible and probably too heavy handed. But over the past few decades smoking has become less and less socially acceptable, and people have become less and less willing to tolerate it around them. Guns will be somewhat different, because they have a much smaller chance of killing someone and because cigarettes have never been treated as magic totems of freedom, but if America is to end its crazy gun addiction, it must become similarly less socially acceptable.

100 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:50:05pm

re: #98 JoyousMN

If we can register, regulate and insure cars, why can't we do the same thing for guns?

Because Jesus.

101 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:50:15pm

re: #94 JoyousMN

I was only giving an example of the kind of rhetoric that makes it hard to have the conversation we need to have. Most people avoid that rhetoric, but not everyone.

Many who are most devoted to gun control are speaking quite forcefully right now. Some of the rhetoric is less than fully helpful.

102 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:50:57pm

re: #98 JoyousMN

If we can register, regulate and insure cars, why can't we do the same thing for guns?

i wonder what happens in the alternate universe where henry ford is born before the american revolution?

103 AntonSirius  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:51:34pm

re: #12 celticdragon

Aaaand in the end, it will all come to nothing since there is no chance in hell that any GOP House leader will ever put this up for a vote.

The NRA could have actually helped do something that would have been able to pass both houses and maybe save a few lives. Now we get nothing at all.

If used properly, and OFA transforms itself into a more generally useful GOTV group, a bill that dies in the House could be an effective cudgel for the Dems in the '14 midterms.

104 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:52:11pm

re: #94 JoyousMN

If you want perspective on gun-nuts, I have a few in my family.

Here is how they think: I visited my folks on the Friday of the school shooting, and they always listen to the news while in the car (they hadn't even heard of the shooting yet). The first thing said after they hear 20 children had been gunned down?

"Great, now Obama's going to come after the gun owners!"

That, ladies and gentlemen, is the brain of the opposition.

105 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:52:30pm

re: #94 JoyousMN

Yep. Just one more thing we can't address. Put it in the bin with global warming.

106 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:54:21pm

re: #99 Renaissance_Man

My point was about presuming irresponsibility. I didn't say anything about mental illness.

107 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:54:54pm

re: #101 uncah91

I was only giving an example of the kind of rhetoric that makes it hard to have the conversation we need to have. Most people avoid that rhetoric, but not everyone.

Many who are most devoted to gun control are speaking quite forcefully right now. Some of the rhetoric is less than fully helpful.

Yes, I get it. I carpool with a women who is extremely pro-gun and we've been working through this over the course of a many, very difficult conversations. I also posted stuff on facebook (yes, i'm a sucker for punishment--or my friends are LOL). Dems have given up on this issue for the past 10-15 years, but the death toll keeps going up. If this were any other subject, cancer, car crashes, etc, we'd all be talking about solutions. We have to get to that point even though it's not going to be easy.

108 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:54:55pm

I have another alternate source of glamour, adventure, and fast-firing guns for the assault weapons crowd:

French Foreign Legion Official English language recruiting site.

Whatever your origins, nationality or religion might be, whatever qualifications you may or may not have, whatever your social or professional status might be, whether you are married or single, the French Foreign Legion offers you a chance to start a new life...

Join the 7699 legionnaires and non-commissioned officers hailing from 136 different countries, including France. Build yourself an exceptional future in which “honour” and “fidelity” are fundamental values.

The pay's pretty good too. Unfortunately for the gun shop commandos, you have to pass a pretty stringent "sports and athletics" test to even join up.

109 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:55:27pm

re: #105 Amory Blaine

Yep. Just one more thing we can't address. Put it in the bin with global warming.

As with every issue, it all comes down to protecting the wealthy owners of industry, because they're the ones who can bribe/buy/steal elections and influence. They may not win every battle, but they're doing pretty well in the war.

110 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:56:13pm

wingnut mind

my movie, "the eternal sunshine of the wingnut mind", will be out in february

the plot concerns a blue collar worker who wakes up everyday fearful that somewhere a poor child is getting subsidized healthcare paid for by his tax money

111 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:57:25pm

re: #105 Amory Blaine

Yep. Just one more thing we can't address. Put it in the bin with global warming.

you shouldn't put it in /bin - it's not executable

112 AntonSirius  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:57:41pm

re: #20 celticdragon

We need a pro gun rights Democrat like Kirsten Gillibrand or Max Baucus to introduce something that would give cover to other gun owners to get behind and support. Feinstein is pretty much universally loathed in the gun owning community as far as I can tell.

Doesn't matter who introduced any legislation... they'll get an immediate retroactive F from the NRA.

Nothing will get done unless the Dems manage to get control of the House in '14.

113 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 1:58:28pm

re: #109 Ghost of Tom Joad

As with every issue, it all comes down to protecting the wealthy owners of industry, because they're the ones who can bribe/buy/steal elections and influence. They may not win every battle, but they're doing pretty well in the war.

Certainly this has something to do with it. But ignoring the urban/rural divide on this issue, as if there aren't actual legitimate differences of opinion on gun ownership in this country is not helpful.

114 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:00:26pm

re: #112 AntonSirius

Nothing will get done unless the Dems manage to get control of the House in '14.

Good luck. Even if the Dems took every one of those 35 swing districts, that's not enough anymore.

115 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:02:30pm

This is kind of like how our health care costs got out of control. When you're healthy, you don't think AT ALL about premiums or copays or lifetime limits. So you ignore it. The number of the population at any one time that is being hospitalized is low so that patients basically suffer in silence and we go about our business. Of course the costs are so high now that even something like a broken arm can render you financially ruined. That's why it is being addressed now. Until enough americans are directly affected by gun violence, the controls will be weak.

116 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:02:49pm

That's why I think it has to start in the states. So states like MN can pass a gun liability law, and maybe we can begin to move the national conversation.

117 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:03:17pm

re: #112 AntonSirius

Doesn't matter who introduced any legislation... they'll get an immediate retroactive F from the NRA.

Nothing will get done unless the Dems manage to get control of the House in '14.

But to do that you have to have a bill that passes the senate and was proposed by someone perceived as progun. Once that bill then dies in the house, only then do you have an actionable campaign topic that you can go to Republican districts and hammer on them. Use the GOTV from this November. Push ads using Citizens United till there is no air time for anyone else. Everything like that can make a difference.

But it can't be Feinstien's bill. It will be toxic to any hope of changing the house. But a bill by Gillibrand or Baucus? That can work in favor of those who want change and aren't willing to let either set of fanatics prevent it.

118 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:04:02pm

I think I should point out that the only gun I own i inherited from my great grandfather. It's a shotgun that I have never fired or owned ammo for.

I don't imagine that I will ever purchase a firearm. Although the few times I have been target shooting, it is was a lot of fun.

119 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:06:47pm

re: #117 William Barnett-Lewis

Manchin is an actual possibility.

120 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:09:40pm

re: #110 engineer cat

wingnut mind

my movie, "the eternal sunshine of the wingnut mind", will be out in february

the plot concerns a blue collar worker who wakes up everyday fearful that somewhere a poor child is getting subsidized healthcare paid for by his tax money


The horror...

What kind of sick mind comes up with this?
/

121 AntonSirius  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:11:44pm

re: #58 freetoken

I've sort of given up on any relatively quick solution.

In the long term, if we can:

(1) reduce the production of guns (perhaps by requiring manufacturers to pay taxes for prevention programs, etc.);
(2) reduce the transfer of guns (by requiring background checks for every transfer);
(3) require owners to be insured and licensed;

then perhaps over time the violent use of guns will diminish.

The last one, by requiring licensing, we can also address the "mental health" issue.

Given that the Constitution is now viewed as an Holy document, breathed without error by God, it has become impossible to change, no matter how outdated or wrong (in the real world) it is.

The thing about licensing and liability insurance is that it's perfectly in keeping with the "well-regulated" part of the Second Amendment that most people pay no attention to.

122 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:16:24pm

re: #120 Amory Blaine


The horror...

What kind of sick mind comes up with this?
/

heh

i note that you have put one - and only one - sarc tag

123 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:16:49pm

re: #121 AntonSirius

The thing about licensing and liability insurance is that it's perfectly in keeping with the "well-regulated" part of the Second Amendment that most people pay no attention to.

The thing is, the SC has pretty much paid no attention to that clause either.

The 2nd Ammendment says its a right to bear arms, placing a large monetary requirement on that might have trouble passing muster. I'm not saying it couldn't, but it's certainly not cut and dry.

124 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:17:09pm

Former ATF agent: Law ‘really does not provide the mechanism to regulate gun commerce’

A recent New York Times article detailed the myriad restrictions on the agency that prevent it from tracking gun purchases and gun ownership.

For instance, the ATF cannot build a federal registry for gun transactions and must make a series of phone calls to manufacturers, wholesalers and dealers, as well as wading through paperwork and handwritten index cards, when it needs to trace a gun and serial number. That’s because Congress, siding with the National Rifle Association, said a database would threaten the Second Amendment.

William Vizzard, a special agent with the ATF for 27 years who is now a professor of criminal justice at the UC-Sacramento, countered that line of reasoning.

“They’ve been disabled largely by the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986, the McClure-Volkmer Act, from a number of things. The ability to control dealers who violate the law was greatly limited,” Vizzard said adding that “Controlling unlicensed dealing is virtually impossible. And the original gun control act of ’68 didn’t really extend much authority to ATF, and the ’86 statute cut that back substantially.”

Even discarding additional regulations, he said, “The underlying law really does not provide the mechanism to regulate gun commerce.”

MSNBC political analyst and former DNC communications director Karen Finney said most Americans would find it inconceivable that there is no such database.

“I can’t buy Sudafed one day early because of the computer database system that tracks how much you buy and when you buy it,” she said, but “there isn’t a system that, where for example a police officer, let’s say in Aurora, Colorado, would know that someone in their community was amassing large amounts of weapons and ammunition.”

125 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:21:30pm

re: #121 AntonSirius

The thing about licensing and liability insurance is that it's perfectly in keeping with the "well-regulated" part of the Second Amendment that most people pay no attention to.

plus if we regulate guns that can mfg and sold in the US. Guns in the future will become precious like gold and owners will treat them as such. 400 million guns don't go away overnight but we can make a start for our future.

126 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:22:01pm

Hey all, thx for the god conversation. I gotta run.

Next I have to figure out how to go about putting actions behind my words.

127 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:22:11pm

re: #124 Kragar

See, I don't understand the emphasis people are placing on the amount of ammunition or the number of guns. Usually 1 gun is plenty. And usually a handful of bullets is enough.

Concentrating on how the gun looks, how much ammo the shooter bought, etc. ignores how dangerous even a 6 shot revolver is. The ZZ Top "Mr. Saturday Night Special" comes to mind.

128 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:23:18pm

re: #124 Kragar

Former ATF agent: Law ‘really does not provide the mechanism to regulate gun commerce’

“there isn’t a system that, where for example a police officer, let’s say in Aurora, Colorado, would know that someone in their community was amassing large amounts of weapons and ammunition.”

then what the fuck are the abrogations of the 4th amendment mandated by the "patriot" act for?

or would this be detected if the person doing this was a "terrorist suspect" (i.e., muslim) and only then?

129 JoyousMN  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:24:18pm

re: #127 uncah91

See, I don't understand the emphasis people are placing on the amount of ammunition or the number of guns. Usually 1 gun is plenty. And usually a handful of bullets is enough.

Concentrating on how the gun looks, how much ammo the shooter bought, etc. ignores how dangerous even a 6 shot revolver is. The ZZ Top "Mr. Saturday Night Special" comes to mind.

one more...

people are emphasizing it because of the extra fatalities that come from not needing to reload as often-- it makes the weapons way more dangerous

130 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:26:34pm

re: #127 uncah91

See, I don't understand the emphasis people are placing on the amount of ammunition or the number of guns. Usually 1 gun is plenty. And usually a handful of bullets is enough.

Concentrating on how the gun looks, how much ammo the shooter bought, etc. ignores how dangerous even a 6 shot revolver is. The ZZ Top "Mr. Saturday Night Special" comes to mind.

Umm, that was Lynyrd Skynyrd...

Youtube Video

;-P
131 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:28:23pm

re: #129 JoyousMN

one more...

people are emphasizing it because of the extra fatalities that come from not needing to reload as often-- it makes the weapons way more dangerous

That has to do with magazine capacity, how fast the gun cycles, and how fast the magazine can be changed. But it doesn't require 1000 rounds of ammunition. Concentrating on how many rounds the shooter bought at once is a complete red herring.

And having multiple weapons doesn't particularly facilitate these killings either.

Finally, mass shootings are only a tiny tip on the iceberg of violent death in the U.S.

132 uncah91  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:29:20pm

re: #130 TedStriker

Umm, that was Lynyrd Skynyrd...

Woops. I sit corrected.

133 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:32:41pm

re: #127 uncah91

See, I don't understand the emphasis people are placing on the amount of ammunition or the number of guns. Usually 1 gun is plenty. And usually a handful of bullets is enough.

Concentrating on how the gun looks, how much ammo the shooter bought, etc. ignores how dangerous even a 6 shot revolver is. The ZZ Top "Mr. Saturday Night Special" comes to mind.

pst: that was Ronnie Van Zant of Lynyrd Skynyrd. Gimme Three Steps is another take on the same topic by them.

134 Mattand  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:34:48pm

re: #104 Ghost of Tom Joad

If you want perspective on gun-nuts, I have a few in my family.

Here is how they think: I visited my folks on the Friday of the school shooting, and they always listen to the news while in the car (they hadn't even heard of the shooting yet). The first thing said after they hear 20 children had been gunned down?

"Great, now Obama's going to come after the gun owners!"

That, ladies and gentlemen, is the brain of the opposition.

Posts like these I want to downding; not because I disagree with them, but because of the sentiment displayed by the subjects of the story.

135 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:34:59pm

re: #132 uncah91

Woops. I sit corrected.

Factoid: "Saturday Night Special" was Lynyrd Skynyrd's first real breakout hit, IIRC; it was used in the beginning police chase of The Longest Yard (the original and the remake).

136 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:35:40pm

re: #132 uncah91

Woops. I sit corrected.

i generally fall over when corrected

137 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:37:15pm

grumble grumble grumble pl/sql was not really meant for 6600 line routines grumble grumble i hope they like it

138 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:38:36pm

Just once, I'd like someone to explain to me how the Second Amendment trumps everything else in this country, including common sense.

I'm not an anti-gun person. I grew up in a family of hunters and sportsmen. I just cannot understand or process how any and every conceivable rule or regulation is AN ATTACK ON FREEDOM ZOMG.

139 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:40:54pm

We should not only ban guns, we should ban swimming pools, space heaters, lighters, meat cleavers, 220-volt power lines, and walking outside without at least a 6-inch padded layer of foam rubber covered in teflon. Then, and only then, will we have TRVE SAFETY.

140 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:40:58pm

re: #135 TedStriker

Factoid: "Saturday Night Special" was Lynyrd Skynyrd's first real breakout hit, IIRC; it was used in the beginning police chase of The Longest Yard (the original and the remake).

I thought their first hit that got played a lot was Simple Man. I saw them opening for the Who at the Cow palace in SF.

141 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:41:37pm

re: #138 Lidane

First you have to tune your brain to the slippery slope channel.

142 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:41:39pm

re: #138 Lidane

Just once, I'd like someone to explain to me how the Second Amendment trumps everything else in this country, including common sense.

Especially coming from the same people who wanted to throw out birthright citizenship. So much for that Constitution fetish.

143 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:43:42pm

re: #141 jaunte

First you have to tune your brain to the slippery slope channel.

All aboard!!! muahahaha!
Aye aye aye aye aye aye!
Crazy, but that's how it goes...

144 engineer cat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:44:43pm

re: #138 Lidane

Just once, I'd like someone to explain to me how the Second Amendment trumps everything else in this country, including common sense.

"Are all the laws but one to go unexecuted and the government itself go to pieces lest that one be violated?"

- A. Lincoln

145 TedStriker  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:45:43pm

re: #138 Lidane

Just once, I'd like someone to explain to me how the Second Amendment trumps everything else in this country, including common sense.

I'm not an anti-gun person. I grew up in a family of hunters and sportsmen. I just cannot understand or process how any and every conceivable rule or regulation is AN ATTACK ON FREEDOM ZOMG.

Because Warrior Jesus, that's why.

146 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:47:20pm

"First, they required licenses to drive our cars, and I said nothing,
because I had only roller skates."

147 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:47:56pm

Eat shit and die, Bryan

148 Belafon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:48:07pm

re: #40 The Mountain That Blogs

Why, because we might end up with more stupid tweets?

149 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:50:04pm

re: #148 Belafon

Why, because we might end up with more stupid tweets?

You mean more awesome tweets. This is rapidly becoming one of my favorite accounts.

150 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:50:04pm

Fuck this shit!

151 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:50:43pm

Michigan

152 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:52:38pm

re: #149 The Mountain That Blogs

You mean more awesome tweets. This is rapidly becoming one of my favorite accounts.

[Embedded content]

Full quote:

These people are ruining their children.....they deny Truth and biology and are training their children to live in a fantasy world.

Artificial construct-—you can condition children to think anything-—like the little boys in harems dressed like girls in Afghanistan. They learn to hate women—women’s bodies are “filthy” since the Koran teaches that. The men use boys and other men for recreation and give the boys special attention and gifts and those little boys are so proud and their parents brag—just like this “mother”.

Even our troops are forced to “think” sodomy is normal and not puke when the men make passes at them and smacking sounds in ME countries.

Our Sodomite-in-Chief wants our military to be sodomites like the Knights Templars and Samurai and SA Brownshirts. All you have to do is remove Christian Ethics—all morality like the Bohemia Grove Elites who have their homosexual orgies with KKK costumes and owls watching as the sacrifice little boys.

Ah-—always about little boys....like in the Franklin Cover-up. The little secret that is NOT so secret in the Homosexual movement. It is all about sexualizing the little children to corrupt them and so they can be their recreation. That is why Jerry Brown who probably is a homosexual, wants little boys in Kindergarten to learn about anal sex.

Behaviors are learned and habituated. Even Aristotle knew that in his homosexual Greece where boys were used......just like John Maynard Keynes did. Homosexuality is immaturity (narcissism) so it has to include the kids.

It is not genetic—it is learned by the environment—like this woman is forcing on her child. Confusing children on purpose is evil.

It is all worldview-—what little children are made to believe is “normal”. This woman has been lying to her son since he was born——and forcing him to hate his male body and mock God and his Design. She refuses the Truth and lies to him.

She is a Satanist/Marxist/atheist-—take your pick. She is mentally ill and hateful. She should be locked up for ruining a child’s perception of the world so he will never be normal......but then-—leftists want all evil normalized to destroy the family and long term relationships. State can take control.

Marx obliterates all biological connections—no mothers and fathers—no male or female-—they are interchangeable—radical egalitarianism-—State is parent and no religion—the State is God.

The Leftists need to destroy logic in children so they can teach their Big Lies—like Wundt stated-—control the education and you can make anyone think Snow is Black. This woman obviously went to public schools.

-- savagesusie

153 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:53:03pm

FUCK YOU BRYAN


He can't possibly believe all the shit he tweets. He is Twitter's #1 troll.

154 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:54:13pm

re: #152 Gus

Full quote:

How do you find the entire quote? Do you like Google it or go to FR and use their search tool?

155 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:54:55pm

re: #153 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

FUCK YOU BRYAN

[Embedded content]


He can't possibly believe all the shit he tweets. He is Twitter's #1 troll.

Isn't "jobless workers" in reference to the people who you know, want to work but can't find a decent job?

156 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:55:02pm

re: #154 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

How do you find the entire quote? Do you like Google it or go to FR and use their search tool?

Just Google part of the quote from the Tweet.

157 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:58:46pm

All that extra water must have come from Baby Jesus's tears.

158 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:59:23pm

re: #157 Kragar

He really is that dumb.

159 dragonfire1981  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:59:32pm

You know those dystopian type movies like V for Vendetta, Gattaca and whatnot?

I wondered what it would look like if one was made postulating what America might be like if some of the more fringe elements took over political control.

I was picturing things like:

- U.S. flags with crosses on them
- Children forced to pray at gunpoint every morning
- Bibles in every school locker
- Everyone walking around armed
- "Undesirables" placed in ghettos or other lower level living accommodations. This could include gays, muslims, mexicans, etc.
- Abortion completely outlawed. Women can be put to death if is found they received an illegal one
- Restrictions on many kinds of medical care (including vaccinations and birth control)
- Requirement of all citizens to formerly denounce the "barbaric" and "scientifically flawed" notions of global warming and evolution

160 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 2:59:52pm

re: #154 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

How do you find the entire quote? Do you like Google it or go to FR and use their search tool?

She's got 4 pages worth of quotes over at Fundies Say the Darnedest Things.

161 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:00:53pm

Actually, the US would be within Constitutional rights to ban atheists from all aspects of Constitutional government since they don’t acknowledge that we have God-given rights.

That is how the Founders thought and Atheists were marginalized and not allowed to testify in court. We should get back to the Founding principles of this country which includes Absolute Truth and God. Everyone who doesn’t acknowledge that are free to leave and join those atheist or pagan countries that have been so inferior and created the annihilation of 100’s of millions of human beings, plus abortion “rights” and “euthanasia” and homosexual “rights” where there is no sexual morality...since they don’t believe man is anything more that a “trousered ape”.

savagesusie, Free Republic

162 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:03:18pm

re: #149 The Mountain That Blogs

And here I thought the Knights Templar were righteous Crusaders who aided the spread of Christendom over the evil infidels. Who knew?

163 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:06:25pm

re: #155 dragonfire1981

Isn't "jobless workers" in reference to the people who you know, want to work but can't find a decent job?

Yeah, but Bryan thinks "If you lost your job, sux 2 b u luzr"

164 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:07:02pm

re: #163 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

Yeah, but Bryan thinks "If you lost your job, sux 2 b u luzr"

Fischer knows how to think?

165 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:09:40pm

WHAT A FREAKING ASSHOLE

166 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:10:49pm

re: #164 Lidane

Fischer knows how to think?

What passes for "thinking" in his residual brain stem.

167 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:11:46pm

re: #165 Vicious Michigan Union Thug

WHAT A FREAKING ASSHOLE

[Embedded content]

168 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:12:17pm

re: #162 Lidane

And here I thought the Knights Templar were righteous Crusaders who aided the spread of Christendom over the evil infidels. Who knew?

Well, they were Catholic, so that's strike one. And somebody accused them of being gay, that's strike two. And they picked up a bunch of book-learnin' from the Arabs...strike three, fire up the burnin'-pyres.

169 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:12:45pm

re: #167 Kragar

Ah, the Richard Mourdock School of Compromise.

170 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:13:39pm

re: #169 The Mountain That Blogs

Ah, the Richard Mourdock School of Compromise.

Lie back and think of Reagan.

171 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:14:14pm

And here we go.

Arpaio to deploy armed volunteer posse to schools

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said he plans to mobilize and deploy armed volunteer posse members into schools.

Maricopa County Sheriff's Office Posse will be sent to "safeguard schools from violent predators," Arpaio said in a statement on Thursday.

172 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:15:25pm

re: #171 jaunte

And here we go.

Arpaio to deploy armed volunteer posse to schools

Yep. They'll be arresting kids for anything now. Fire up the school to prison pipeline!

173 Amory Blaine  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:17:11pm

What could go wrong?

174 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:17:19pm

re: #172 Gus

Yep. They'll be arresting kids for anything now. Fire up the school to prison pipeline!

Streamlining the ongoing intimidation campaign against brown folks in the county, too. Teach 'em fear while they're young.

175 Kragar  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:17:40pm

re: #171 jaunte

And here we go.

Arpaio to deploy armed volunteer posse to schools

I give it a week before one of those fucktards is responsible for an incident at the school.

176 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:17:45pm

re: #172 Gus

"He cut in to the lunch line, so I had to drop him."

177 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:18:20pm

re: #170 The Ghost of a Flea

Lie back and think of Reagan.

That seems to be the standard Republican MO.

178 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:19:42pm

re: #171 jaunte

And here we go.

Arpaio to deploy armed volunteer posse to schools

Oh, that should be fun. How soon before his posse arrests and/or kills a parent or older sibling coming to pick up a child because that person has tattoos or looks "wrong"?

179 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:21:59pm
Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test;
Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test; and
Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans.

I like that Feinstein's bill eliminates bayonet mounts from the test. I don't like the inclusion of thumbhole stocks, which are very popular with benchrest rimfire target rifle shooters. A pistol grip or thumbhole stock doesn't make a killing a bunch of people at once any easier or a rifle any more concealable. I agree with the idea of banning bullet buttons, since they do make it much easier to quickly reload a rifle.

180 CarleeCork  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:24:29pm

re: #28 celticdragon

Showing pictures of children accidentally killed by their parents guns might work, but nothing else would.

I never keep a loaded weapon in the house because of that risk.

Brilliant idea!

181 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:26:14pm

re: #171 jaunte

And here we go.

Arpaio to deploy armed volunteer posse to schools

I wonder, if the school districts, boards, or other officials in charge of the schools reject this idea if Arpaio will ignore them?

182 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:27:10pm

Arpaio is like a crappy idea fountain.

183 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:27:27pm

re: #178 Lidane

Oh, that should be fun. How soon before his posse arrests and/or kills a parent or older sibling coming to pick up a child because that person has tattoos or looks "wrong"?

I expect the posse to attempt to ferret out undocumented parents dropping off children. Arpaio is just using school security as a pretext for his anti-Hispanic policies.

184 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:28:02pm

re: #172 Gus

Yep. They'll be arresting kids for anything now. Fire up the school to prison pipeline!

Just think of all those illegal immigrant children in those schools.

I wonder if the "volunteers" can ask the kids for their papers?

185 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:32:56pm

re: #183 goddamnedfrank

I expect the posse to attempt to ferret out undocumented parents dropping off children. Arpaio is just using school security as a pretext for his anti-Hispanic policies.

Of course he is. Two birds with one stone -- he gets more armed vigilantes and lunatics on the street and gets to harass more Latinos in the process.

186 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:33:47pm

As all righteous Arizonan sheriffs and their deputies gather each day to pray, hear their words:

"Our Gunsmith who art in heaven,
hallow-pointed be your name.
Your automatically loaded kingdom come,
your marksmanship be done,
on earth as it is in heaven's firing range.
Give us this day our daily load,
and forgive us our misfires,
as we also have forgiven our wetted powder.
And lead us not into gun control,
but deliver us from LIBRULS!."

187 wrenchwench  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:35:00pm

re: #186 freetoken

As all righteous Arizonan sheriffs and their deputies gather each day to pray, hear their words:

"Our Gunsmith who art in heaven,
hallow-pointed be your name.
Your automatically loaded kingdom come,
your marksmanship be done,
on earth as it is in heaven's firing range.
Give us this day our daily load,
and forgive us our misfires,
as we also have forgiven our wetted powder.
And lead us not into gun control,
but deliver us from LIBRULS!."

And build the damn fence, amen.

188 celticdragon  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:36:14pm

re: #139 SidewaysQuark

We should not only ban guns, we should ban swimming pools, space heaters, lighters, meat cleavers, 220-volt power lines, and walking outside without at least a 6-inch padded layer of foam rubber covered in teflon. Then, and only then, will we have TRVE SAFETY.

Listen...

I like guns. I own guns ranging from Revolutionary war replicas to WW 1 and WW 2 infantry weapons.

A swimming pool is dangerous for non swimmers, but it cannot be used to hurt people who are not near the back yard it happens to be in. Knives require an assailant to literally be within arms reach of the target, and people usually run away from whackos with knives.

Guns are almost unique in their ability to project power from one person, and evil or deranged people go for guns over other methods like bombs or arson because guns are nearly foolproof. They were made that way. They can be used by untrained children. They can be used by geriatric grandmothers. They will kill just as effectively no matter who pulls the trigger. All that is required is 6.5 pounds of pressure.

None of your other examples even remotely rises to the threat level that a gun on the wrong hands presents to the rest of us.

Please get some new talking points.

189 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:41:41pm

Alert Professor Doktor Fischer!

190 freetoken  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:42:22pm

isPaged = 1;

192 BongCrodny  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:49:35pm

re: #171 jaunte

And here we go.

Arpaio to deploy armed volunteer posse to schools

Wiki lists 85 elementary schools alone in Mesa and another 25 in Tempe, Maricopa County's two largest cities.

Assuming you'd want at least three people in a posse, that's over 300 armed -- and likely retired or unemployed -- volunteers per day.

It hardly seems workable, unless you pick and choose which schools are going to get coverage.

Then what do you blame the next time someone slips through the net and targets an uncovered school? Scheduling errors?

193 Political Atheist  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:50:52pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Why exactly do people need semi-automatic handguns, anyway?

Why should I be against banning them?

So a legit defender of the law abiding sort need not be outgunned so badly, so often.

194 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:53:21pm

Man pulls gun over Obama bumper sticker fight

Video from ABC

Short version: 24 year old veteran had anti-Obama bumper sticker, 62 year old vet objects, 24 year old Obama-hater pulls gun, forces old guy to kneel. Police arrive, draw their own guns, and arrest Obama-hater.

Freepers cheer 24 year old macho man hero for using gun to silence Obammunist.

195 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:57:10pm

re: #194 Shiplord Kirel

Man pulls gun over Obama bumper sticker fight

Video from ABC

Short version: 24 year old veteran had anti-Obama bumper sticker, 62 year old vet objects, 24 year old Obama-hater pulls gun, forces old guy to kneel. Police arrive, draw their own guns, and arrest Obama-hater.

Freepers cheer 24 year old macho man hero for using gun to silence Obammunist.

But, but, he's a veteran! That means he shits rainbows and sunshine!

196 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:57:36pm

re: #194 Shiplord Kirel

Man pulls gun over Obama bumper sticker fight

Video from ABC

Short version: 24 year old veteran had anti-Obama bumper sticker, 62 year old vet objects, 24 year old Obama-hater pulls gun, forces old guy to kneel. Police arrive, draw their own guns, and arrest Obama-hater.

Freepers cheer 24 year old macho man hero for using gun to silence Obammunist.

Correction: The gun-wielding Obama-hater is 43 years old.

197 jaunte  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 3:59:52pm

Williams was arrested and charged with aggravated assault and false imprisonment following the altercation.
[Link: www.koat.com...]

198 Lidane  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 4:01:31pm

re: #192 BongCrodny

It hardly seems workable, unless you pick and choose which schools are going to get coverage.

Well, duh. Arpaio will send his armed lunatics posse to heavily Latino schools.

199 Gus  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 4:03:23pm

re: #197 jaunte

Williams was arrested and charged with aggravated assault and false imprisonment following the altercation.
[Link: www.koat.com...]

Crap. That piece of shit is lucky the cops didn't make Swiss cheese out of him.

200 compound_Idaho  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 4:51:38pm

re: #9 jaunte

Crapo must have misheard; thought they were coming for his vodka shots.

Our current Governor as a DUI. Got it while serving at Lt. Governor.

201 jamesfirecat  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 5:28:05pm

re: #75 dragonfire1981

The same is pretty much true for the heavily pro and heavily anti on just about any issue: Abortion, immigration, same sex marriage, etc.

What heavily pro abortion arguments out there are making you cringe?

What heavily pro same sex marriage arguments are making you cringe?

202 stabby  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:42:27pm

re: #152 Gus

If I ever said that Free Republic is full of repressed gays I take it back. It's full of repressed pederasts.

203 stabby  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:47:31pm

re: #139 SidewaysQuark

We should not only ban guns, we should ban swimming pools, space heaters, lighters, meat cleavers, 220-volt power lines, and walking outside without at least a 6-inch padded layer of foam rubber covered in teflon. Then, and only then, will we have TRVE SAFETY.

That's an impressive number of downdings.

I would downding too except that I agree with that sentiment for all items except weapons

I'm starting to like this idea:
You need say 10 million$ worth of insurance to own a gun.

If no insurance company would trust you with a gun, then you're shit out of luck.

204 efuseakay  Thu, Dec 27, 2012 7:51:56pm

re: #192 BongCrodny

Wiki lists 85 elementary schools alone in Mesa and another 25 in Tempe, Maricopa County's two largest cities.

Assuming you'd want at least three people in a posse, that's over 300 armed -- and likely retired or unemployed -- volunteers per day.

It hardly seems workable, unless you pick and choose which schools are going to get coverage.

Then what do you blame the next time someone slips through the net and targets an uncovered school? Scheduling errors?

WE DUNT HAVE BAZOOKAS!!!!!

205 STSCSS  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:49:39am

Does it matter to anyone here that what the good Sen. has proposed would not have made any difference at all in the Sandy Hook tragedy, nor would it have any affect on the same thing happening in the future?

206 STSCSS  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 12:55:56am

I think that a better Idea would be to train some teachers in the use of deadly force and arm them. We can train 18 year old young women to be front line combat troops, is it really a crazy idea that we could train some mature teachers to respond to an armed intruder?

207 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:41:42am

re: #205 STSCSS

Does it matter to anyone here that what the good Sen. has proposed would not have made any difference at all in the Sandy Hook tragedy, nor would it have any affect on the same thing happening in the future?

No. Even if what you say is true, what's wrong with stopping a whole lot of murders that aren't just like Sandy Hook?

208 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 28, 2012 9:42:04am

re: #206 STSCSS

I think that a better Idea would be to train some teachers in the use of deadly force and arm them. We can train 18 year old young women to be front line combat troops, is it really a crazy idea that we could train some mature teachers to respond to an armed intruder?

Is that you, Joe Arpaio?


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