TwitterFacebook

Michael Medved: Liberals Stink, Government Sucks, Yay War

Mr. Wrong
Wingnuts • Views: 23,044

Today’s bitter wingnut screed comes from talk radio host Michael Medved, with a by-the-numbers rant attacking godless liberals and their crazy belief that government should try to protect citizens from violent criminals: The Liberal God Delusion.

See what he did there? He turned the tables on the godless liberals! (Wingnuts never get tired of this “I’m rubber, you’re glue” tactic.)

if you’ve read one article like this, you’ve read them all; liberals are stupid and government is bad unless it’s time for a war, in which case government is infallible.

Right-wingers passionately proclaim the ideal of “peace through strength,” arguing that a powerful, self-confident America with dominant military resources remains the only guarantee of national security. Progressives, on the other hand, dream of multilateral consensus, comprehensive treaties, disarmament, grand peace deals, and vastly enhanced authority for the United Nations. Once again, liberals place a touching and naive faith in the ideal of a higher power—potential world government—while conservatives insist that the United States, like any nation, must ultimately rely only on itself.

Unsurprisingly, Medved concludes by warning that liberals are a danger to the republic, and only conservatism can save us. Never mind those right wing religious fanatics, they’re unimportant next to this horrible threat.

In the wake of Obama’s reelection, unreasoning reliance on federal power distorts our politics far more destructively than simple-minded faith in God. At the moment, big-government fundamentalism poses more of a threat to the republic than religious absolutism.

Oh yeah … about that “reelection.” Michael Medved’s the guy who published an e-book in August titled: The Odds Against Obama: Why History and Logic Make the President a Likely Loser.

The book’s description is a hoot:

Most Americans instinctively assume the President will cruise to reelection in November. This notion has been bolstered by the Obama campaign’s relentless efforts to portray the president as unbeatable and to characterize Mitt Romney as a hapless loser.

THE ODDS AGAINST OBAMA provides the tools to shatter that impression, and to put the campaign in proper perspective based on the iron rules of history and logic.

The iron rule of wingnut history and logic is that pseudo-pundits like Medved can be totally, outrageously wrong about something, never explain or apologize or account for it in any way whatsoever, yet continue writing more hack pieces like this without even slowing down.

Jump to bottom

358 comments

1 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:03:39pm

30+ years of running on campaigns of "the government doesn't work!," is it really surprising now that the government doesn't work?

2 dragonfire1981  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:07:35pm
The iron rule of wingnut history and logic is that pseudo-pundits like Medved can be totally, outrageously wrong about something, never explain or apologize or account for it in any way whatsoever, yet continue writing more hack pieces like this without even slowing down.

And make buckets of money while doing so. It's ridiculous.

3 RadicalModerate  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:08:49pm

re: #1 Targetpractice

30+ years of running on campaigns of "the government doesn't work!," is it really surprising now that the government doesn't work?

It's not a matter of the government not working, it's more of a case of it not working the way they like it.

You know, with forced prayer in every public school, creationism taught as science, relegation of women and minorities to second-class citizen (or worse) status, and proclaiming that the KJV Bible (and not the constitution) is the supreme law of the land.

4 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:09:51pm

Morons like Medved are more of a threat to conservatives than liberals are. If they can't cease the stupid characterizations of their opponents, they can't win. To quote a lizard:

I think that one of the main reasons Romney was surprised when he lost the election was because he and the others on the Right have never known who Barack Obama is. Too late, he discovered that he wasn't running against the RW Obama caricature but the real one.

5 calochortus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:11:39pm

So the basic argument is that a world made up of small warring clans, bristling with weapons is going to bring in a golden age of some sort?
Surely some historian out there has pointed out that government that takes care of the machinery of daily life-transportation, protection, etc. frees up individuals to improve the general quality of life.

6 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:12:26pm

If you elect a party that believes that government is bad and one of whose major ideologues would like to drown the federal government in a bathtub, then it should come as no surprise that said party will do a piss-poor job of governing.

7 erik_t  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:14:58pm

Here's my iron rule of history: RWNJs don't really know what logic is.

8 Lidane  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:15:07pm

re: #1 Targetpractice

30+ years of running on campaigns of "the government doesn't work!," is it really surprising now that the government doesn't work?

"The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it." --P.J. O'Rourke

He wrote that in 1991. It's funny how the Dems have improved their message since then, but the GOP are still the same.

9 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:15:14pm

re: #5 calochortus

So the basic argument is that a world made up of small warring clans, bristling with weapons is going to bring in a golden age of some sort?
Surely some historian out there has pointed out that government that takes care of the machinery of daily life-transportation, protection, etc. frees up individuals to improve the general quality of life.

These guys long for an age which never existed, one in which we all lived as self-sustaining, self-sufficient settlers on a piece of pristine wilderness we carved out and tamed with our bare hands...with only minimal help from the Federal army in driving off those pesky natives.

10 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:16:35pm

re: #9 Sol Berdinowitz

These guys long for an age which never existed, one in which we all lived as self-sustaining, self-sufficient settlers on a piece of pristine wilderness we carved out and tamed with our bare hands...with only minimal help from the Federal army in driving off those pesky natives.

On land the Feds gave us.

11 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:18:56pm

re: #10 Targetpractice

On land the FedsGod in his infinite wisdom gave us.

The feds were merely the instruments of His Divine Will, and once they stop fulfilling (our bigoted interpretation of) His Divine Will, we are compelled to overthrow them.

/

12 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:19:14pm

re: #4 wrenchwench

Morons like Medved are more of a threat to conservatives than liberals are. If they can't cease the stupid characterizations of their opponents, they can't win. To quote a lizard:

Seems they forgot the cardinal rule: don't get high on your own supply!

13 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:20:08pm

Here's why they couldn't beat Obama. He can make tiny balloons come out of his head.

14 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:22:29pm

re: #13 wrenchwench

Here's why they couldn't beat Obama. He can make tiny balloons come out of his head.

[Embedded content]

It's pics like that that demonstrate the futility of the GOP's election strategy of demonizing the man. People like him as a person, which counts for several thousand votes on its own. I heard, and still agree, that Romney might have had more success if he'd gone the Reagan route of portraying Obama as a good man who was just overwhelmed by what it took to be president. Running against a caricature was not a winning strategy.

15 calochortus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:25:11pm

re: #9 Sol Berdinowitz

These guys long for an age which never existed, one in which we all lived as self-sustaining, self-sufficient settlers on a piece of pristine wilderness we carved out and tamed with our bare hands...with only minimal help from the Federal army in driving off those pesky natives.

Of course they do, but those hardy pioneers were not the ones inventing the telephone, paving the streets or developing a banking system and laws regulating it that made industrialization possible.
Even the founders figured out that the Articles of Confederation allowed too much individual action on the part of the states to work well.

16 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:25:12pm

re: #14 Targetpractice

It's pics like that that demonstrate the futility of the GOP's election strategy of demonizing the man. People like him as a person, which counts for several thousand votes on its own. I heard, and still agree, that Romney might have had more success if he'd gone the Reagan route of portraying Obama as a good man who was just overwhelmed by what it took to be president. Running against a caricature was not a winning strategy.

He's going to give 8 year olds the vote!!!

17 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:27:38pm

re: #14 Targetpractice

It's pics like that that demonstrate the futility of the GOP's election strategy of demonizing the man. People like him as a person, which counts for several thousand votes on its own. I heard, and still agree, that Romney might have had more success if he'd gone the Reagan route of portraying Obama as a good man who was just overwhelmed by what it took to be president. Running against a caricature was not a winning strategy.

The swiftboating approach worked so well against Kerry that they could not bring themselves to change the approach, especially in the most recent case when it also served to give vent to their pent-up and only thinly veiled racism.

18 BongCrodny  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:30:09pm
Right-wingers passionately proclaim the ideal of “peace through strength,” arguing that a powerful, self-confident America with dominant military resources remains the only guarantee of national security. Progressives, on the other hand, dream of multilateral consensus, comprehensive treaties, disarmament, grand peace deals, and vastly enhanced authority for the United Nations.

I'm a godless liberal who also believes in peace through strength -- where I draw the line at is "peace through stupid."

When I was in the Navy Reserve, about a million years ago, I spent my two weeks of annual training at Newport, Rhode Island.

They didn't really have anything for me to do there; basically it was just sitting around from 8:00-5:00 waiting for the day to end. One day my entire workday consisted of opening up little wrapped packages that contained one (1) screw each.

One.

Although I never saw the paperwork to confirm it, I was told by a supervisor that each one of those little packages cost $9.

$9 for a fucking screw.

While I'd always swung to the left on social issues, that was probably the single incident most likely responsible for my understanding that "national security" and "bloated military budget" are not a good match.

19 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:30:54pm

Obama is not only well liked, even by people who do not agree with his politics or policies, but anyone who is not a racist bigot sees him as an outstanding example of the American Dream: someone from completely non-priveleged circumstances who worked his way up through initiative and hard work.

Instead, the GOP tried to sell him as some sort of elitist affirmative-action Alinskyite.

That played well with the choir, but fell flat with anyone capable of objective, critical thought.

20 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:31:11pm

re: #15 calochortus

Of course they do, but those hardy pioneers were not the ones inventing the telephone, paving the streets or developing a banking system and laws regulating it that made industrialization possible.
Even the founders figured out that the Articles of Confederation allowed too much individual action on the part of the states to work well.

The Articles were a mess because a rump federal government can't unite a damned thing. And when the states each have their own ambitions and reasons to avoid working together with others, you get a "nation" that is little better than herding cats.

21 erik_t  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:32:12pm

re: #14 Targetpractice

I heard, and still agree, that Romney might have had more success if he'd gone the Reagan route of portraying Obama as a good man who was just overwhelmed by what it took to be president. Running against a caricature was not a winning strategy.

But he couldn't do that in the primary, and if he tried that in the general the two-faced lying would have been even more jarring.

The base is poison in a way it was not in 1980. There's no quick fix for that.

22 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:34:16pm

re: #21 erik_t

But he couldn't do that in the primary, and if he tried that in the general the two-faced lying would have been even more jarring.

The base is poison in a way it was not in 1980. There's no quick fix for that.

The base is the culmination of that deal made by Reagan in '80 to bring the religious fruitloops and Bircher nutters into the party tent in order to secure more votes for his own ambitions. Thing is, once they got into the tent, they declared they were the "true conservatives" and started chasing out anybody who stood in their way.

23 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:39:48pm

The New England Journal of Medicine has published an essay on controlling access to guns. It is well worth a read. No, it doesn't call for sweeping bans on rifles with irrelevant cosmetic features. It has more to do with controlling who can get ahold of guns in general, and how.

Sandy Hook, Oak Creek, Aurora, Virginia Tech, Columbine: “it can't happen here” places where terrible things did happen and 95 people died. Contrary to widespread perception, however, such events are uncommon. Their frequency is not increasing, and they account for only a small fraction of firearm-related deaths and injuries. On average, 88 Americans died every day from firearm violence in 2011, and another 202 were seriously injured. In 2012, for the first time, there will probably be more firearm-related homicides and suicides than motor vehicle traffic fatalities.

The United States has become an extreme example of what could well be termed “global gunning.” With less than 5% of the world's population, we own more than 40% of all the firearms that are in civilians' hands: 250 million to 300 million weapons, nearly as many as we have people, and they are not going away anytime soon. We have made social and policy decisions that, with some important exceptions, provide the widest possible array of firearms to the widest possible array of people, for use under the widest possible array of conditions.

The most egregious policies have been enacted at the state level — “Stand Your Ground” laws, for instance, which have been used to legitimize what many people still call murder. Justice Louis Brandeis rightly praised the states as the laboratories of our democracy, but in some of them, experimentation with firearm policy has taken a frightening turn.

We are paying the price of those decisions. Too often, our children and grandchildren are paying it for us. Payments will continue. Can we do anything to reduce them? I believe the answer is yes.

One policy supported is to institute background checks on ALL gun buys, including private party sales, which the essay points out accounts for 40% of all gun sales.

Secondly, the author advocates "expanded denial criteria":

We know that comprehensive background checks and expanded denial criteria are feasible and effective, because they are in place in many states and have been evaluated. California, for example, requires a background check on all firearm purchases and denies purchases by persons who have committed violent misdemeanors. Yet some 600,000 firearms were sold there in 2011, and the firearms industry continues to consider California a “lucrative” market. The denial policy reduced the risk of violent and firearm-related crime by 23% among those whose purchases were denied.[4]

But state-by-state handling is not enough, because gun sales flow around more restrictive local laws.

At gun shows in California, where direct private-party sales are illegal, such sales are almost nonexistent. At shows just across the border in Reno, Nevada, where private-party sales are legal, dozens occur, and a third of the cars in the parking lot are from California.

24 calochortus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:40:35pm

re: #20 Targetpractice

The Articles were a mess because a rump federal government can't unite a damned thing. And when the states each have their own ambitions and reasons to avoid working together with others, you get a "nation" that is little better than herding cats.

Bingo. And no nation, no real progress. I don't see a lot of cool high tech stuff coming out of failed nations that are stuffed full of these self sufficient rugged individualists.

25 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:40:38pm

Whole thing reads like a whiny screed.

26 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:41:09pm

re: #24 calochortus

Bingo. And no nation, no real progress. I don't see a lot of cool high tech stuff coming out of failed nations that are stuffed full of these self sufficient rugged individualists.

You mean Somalia isn't the economic capital of the world?

///

27 calochortus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:42:34pm

re: #26 Targetpractice

You mean Somalia isn't the economic capital of the world?

///

Vying for that position with Yemen. (Corrected from Somalia-you just said that...)

28 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:45:02pm

There is also an article of conservative ideology that the Free Market is some sort of divine natural state that we achieve through a lack of government intervention and regulation.

To quote Adam Smith: "Markets are there to serve people, people are not there to serve the markets".

The Free Market is not an ideological ideal state, it is a man-made mechanism for balancing supply and demand, and for directing capital to where it will do the greatest benefit to all. When markets cease to serve these ends, they need to be regulated.

And national/international markets need to be regulated by the federal government.

29 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:47:00pm

This is such a whinefest. Medved should be embarrassed that he wrote this. It's typical. Yay conservatives, boo progressives, blah blah, we're number one.

30 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:50:18pm

And no allowing lobbyists to make up the difference, either!

31 sagehen  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:51:18pm

re: #9 Sol Berdinowitz

These guys long for an age which never existed, one in which we all lived as self-sustaining, self-sufficient settlers on a piece of pristine wilderness we carved out and tamed with our bare hands...with only minimal help from the Federal army in driving off those pesky natives.

They're also leaving out the part where those pesky natives spent thousands of years making the land, seafood and local plant breeds suitable for agriculture/aquaculture; corn, tomatoes, potatos and other tubers, some grains, didn't evolve themselves into perfect human foodstuffs, salmon runs and crawfish colonies didn't locate themselves entirely at the salmon's and crawfish's discretion, etc.

32 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:52:09pm

re: #28 Sol Berdinowitz

There is also an article of conservative ideology that the Free Market is some sort of divine natural state that we achieve through a lack of government intervention and regulation.

To quote Adam Smith: "Markets are there to serve people, people are not there to serve the markets".

The Free Market is not an ideological ideal state, it is a man-made mechanism for balancing supply and demand, and for directing capital to where it will do the greatest benefit to all. When markets cease to serve these ends, they need to be regulated.

And national/international markets need to be regulated by the federal government.

Part of their faith in it is the idea that its infallible, that supply and demand lead to a self-regulating system that puts the customer above all else. That it is government regulation, not greedy businessmen, who drive up prices and lead to dysfunction in the system. That CEO who robbed the company blind before bailing out with a golden parachute? They tell themselves that, without government "interference," he would have worked for the betterment of the company because he'd make more money that way.

33 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:53:19pm

Awesome sandwich I just had: 7-grain bread, homemade almond butter, homemade strawberry preserves, and a perfectly ripe sliced banana.

In the competition for ten best sandwiches of 2012.

34 calochortus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:53:23pm

Ah, the sun is shining, and while it's still a brutal 48 degrees outside (we Californians do tend toward wimpiness...) I believe I'll put the laundry away and head out for a walk.

BBL

35 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:55:12pm

re: #28 Sol Berdinowitz

I've been playing Bioshock 2 and that post made me think of this quote by one of the characters.

36 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:55:30pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

Part of their faith in it is the idea that its infallible, that supply and demand lead to a self-regulating system that puts the customer above all else. That it is government regulation, not greedy businessmen, who drive up prices and lead to dysfunction in the system. That CEO who robbed the company blind before bailing out with a golden parachute? They tell themselves that, without government "interference," he would have worked for the betterment of the company because he'd make more money that way.

Yes, if they only lowered the tax rate, to say 13.9%, we would all be solid, honest businesspeople who would not think of hiding our assets in offshore schemes...

37 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:57:17pm

Progressives, on the other hand, dream

This Has Been Yet Another Edition Of "Liberals Believe What Conservatives Tell Them To Believe"

38 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:58:02pm

It's amazingly easy to make almond butter if you have a food processor. Just throw organic roasted almonds in there, turn it on, and let it run. At about the middle of the process it turns into a big ball of almond paste - you might have to stop and break that up. Other than that, completely automatic and unbelievably delicious. And much cheaper than store-bought.

39 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:59:47pm

re: #23 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The New England Journal of Medicine has published an essay on controlling access to guns. It is well worth a read. No, it doesn't call for sweeping bans on rifles with irrelevant cosmetic features. It has more to do with controlling who can get ahold of guns in general, and how.

One policy supported is to institute background checks on ALL gun buys, including private party sales, which the essay points out accounts for 40% of all gun sales.

Secondly, the author advocates "expanded denial criteria":

But state-by-state handling is not enough, because gun sales flow around more restrictive local laws.

I was expecting more from a medical journal on the mental illness angle but they just gloss over it...

What about purchases by the mentally ill? The current lifelong federal prohibition applies to anyone “adjudicated as a mental defective” — language that is offensive and ambiguous. For many reasons, including the ambiguity, the databases on which background checks rely are incomplete. More than one mentally ill mass shooter, including Seung-Hui Cho (Virginia Tech, 2007) and Russell Weston (U.S. Capitol, 1998), passed a background check and purchased firearms from a licensed retailer because their eligibility was uncertain or records were unavailable. We need better data and criteria that take account of the evidence that mental illness is treatable and that risk for violence is not increased substantially unless there is a history or threat of violence or a history of substance abuse.

I can see why it's a difficult topic. The ethics of a psychiatrist notifying police to confiscate the guns (or dent permits) to one of their patients would violate confidentiality. I'm sure professionals are also concerned about penalties for people seeking mental health care and social consequences of creating more of a stigma to mental illness, etc.

40 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 12:59:51pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

It's amazingly easy to make almond butter if you have a food processor. Just throw organic roasted almonds in there, turn it on, and let it run. At about the middle of the process it turns into a big ball of almond paste - you might have to stop and break that up. Other than that, completely automatic and unbelievably delicious. And much cheaper than store-bought.

I have a Bass-O-Matic 76!

41 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:01:23pm

re: #40 sattv4u2

I have a Bass-O-Matic 76!

[Embedded content]

Old enough to have watched it live, young enough to still remember. Thanks.

42 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:01:54pm

re: #41 Iwouldprefernotto

Old enough to have watched it live, young enough to still remember. Thanks.

same here

Thats why it popped right into mind!

43 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:02:43pm

re: #18 BongCrodny

Although I never saw the paperwork to confirm it, I was told by a supervisor that each one of those little packages cost $9.

$9 for a fucking screw.

While I'd always swung to the left on social issues, that was probably the single incident most likely responsible for my understanding that "national security" and "bloated military budget" are not a good match.

$9 for a screw? That ain't shit. On the nuclear side of the Navy we had an almost unlimited budget. I had a cofferdam and doghouse built to empty a nuclear valve CD39. It only cost 4 million dollars. Anybody that doesn't think the Navy could cut 10% of their bloated budget doesn't understand the system.

44 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:03:56pm

re: #43 A Man for all Seasons

Although I never saw the paperwork to confirm it, I was told by a supervisor that each one of those little packages cost $9.

$9 for a fucking screw.

While I'd always swung to the left on social issues, that was probably the single incident most likely responsible for my understanding that "national security" and "bloated military budget" are not a good match.

$9 for a screw? That ain't shit. On the nuclear side of the Navy we had an almost unlimited budget. I had a cofferdam and doghouse built to empty a nuclear valve CD39. It only cost 4 million dollars. Anybody that doesn't think the Navy could cut 10% of their bloated budget doesn't understand the system.

but if we cut the military budget we won't have enough money for bayonets and horsies.

45 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:04:03pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

I'm going to go buy some almonds right now!

46 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:05:10pm

re: #45 wrenchwench

I'm going to go buy some almonds right now!

While you're out, can you get me some beer, a nice sirloin steak and a baking potato?

47 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:05:10pm

re: #43 A Man for all Seasons

Although I never saw the paperwork to confirm it, I was told by a supervisor that each one of those little packages cost $9.

$9 for a fucking screw.

While I'd always swung to the left on social issues, that was probably the single incident most likely responsible for my understanding that "national security" and "bloated military budget" are not a good match.

$9 for a screw? That ain't shit. On the nuclear side of the Navy we had an almost unlimited budget. I had a cofferdam and doghouse built to empty a nuclear valve CD39. It only cost 4 million dollars. Anybody that doesn't think the Navy could cut 10% of their bloated budget doesn't understand the system.

In an ideal world, comptitive bidding would result in the lowest possible prices. But that does not apply when there are limited suppliers or if security issues pre-empt an open bidding process.

Neither does it help if there is a revolving door policy between the military and the military-industrial complex.

48 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:05:39pm

re: #43 A Man for all Seasons

Although I never saw the paperwork to confirm it, I was told by a supervisor that each one of those little packages cost $9.

$9 for a fucking screw.

While I'd always swung to the left on social issues, that was probably the single incident most likely responsible for my understanding that "national security" and "bloated military budget" are not a good match.

$9 for a screw? That ain't shit. On the nuclear side of the Navy we had an almost unlimited budget. I had a cofferdam and doghouse built to empty a nuclear valve CD39. It only cost 4 million dollars. Anybody that doesn't think the Navy could cut 10% of their bloated budget doesn't understand the system.

Was reading a story about how the Army found out that a couple of contractors had swindled them nearly $1m to ship a pair of washers. And listened to years of my folks talk about how the Navy was spending tens or hundreds of dollars on parts that you could run down to the local hardware store and pick up for pennies. Why? Because somebody somewhere was making a mint on a contract to provide these parts for hugely inflated prices.

49 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:06:04pm

Well on the subject of sandwiches nothing like what Charles had but I had a mesquite turkey, Gouda cheese, and lettuce on white. Not bad.

50 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:07:14pm

Watching Prohibition on PBS. Definite study on when the right wing and religious nut jobs won.

51 erik_t  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:07:36pm

re: #48 Targetpractice

Was reading a story about how the Army found out that a couple of contractors had swindled them nearly $1m to ship a pair of washers. And listened to years of my folks talk about how the Navy was spending tens or hundreds of dollars on parts that you could run down to the local hardware store and pick up for pennies. Why? Because somebody somewhere was making a mint on a contract to provide these parts for hugely inflated prices.

It seems to be the natural tendency of any massive organization, not something specific to government. I had an engineering internship at [MASSIVE CONGLOMERATE REDACTED] in college, and my there are some stories I could tell.

52 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:07:51pm

All this food talk is making me hungry; and it isn't even 5:00pm. Hmm. I am going to check my fridge.

53 dragonath  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:08:02pm

re: #14 Targetpractice

It's pics like that that demonstrate the futility of the GOP's election strategy of demonizing the man.

Romney was like Mr. Happy compared to the competition. I'm avidly awaiting the sad sack competition that will take place between Ryan and Santorum in 2016.

54 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:08:33pm

re: #52 PhillyPretzel

All this food talk is making me hungry; and it isn't even 5:00pm. Hmm. I am going to check my fridge.

While you're there, can you get me some beer, a nice sirloin steak and a baking potato?

55 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:08:38pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

Awesome sandwich I just had: 7-grain bread, homemade almond butter, homemade strawberry preserves, and a perfectly ripe sliced banana.

In the competition for ten best sandwiches of 2012.

homemade strawberry preserves have 167.3% more love than the storebought variety

56 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:09:06pm

re: #50 Stanghazi

Watching Prohibition on PBS. Definite study on when the right wing and religious nut jobs won.

I watched on Amazon Prime earlier in the month. Definitely. I do wish Burns had emphaized the xenophobia that drove some of the prohibition movement. The part about the man being lynched for speaking German disturbed the hell out of me especially because I had German immigrant ancestors in the US at that time. They obviously survived but it made me wonder about what they endured during the WWI years.

57 Targetpractice  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:09:14pm

re: #52 PhillyPretzel

All this food talk is making me hungry; and it isn't even 5:00pm. Hmm. I am going to check my fridge.

It makes me feel sort of uncultured, reading about all this fine dining as I sit here, munching away on a bowl of popcorn.

58 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:09:56pm

re: #54 sattv4u2

I do not have beer or steak or potatoes. Gee I need to go shopping tomorrow morning. I better make a list.

59 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:10:24pm

re: #58 PhillyPretzel

I do not have beer or steak or potatoes. Gee I need to go shopping tomorrow morning. I better make a list.

While you're there, can you get me some beer, a nice sirloin steak and a baking potato?

60 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:10:39pm

I remember one time when I was studying in Ireland. Low on cash so I went to the local grocery store. Picked up some of those chicken strips, Dubliner cheese, strawberry preserves, and of course bread. Made for some decent sandwiches. It's not quite a fine corned beef and hash dinner but it was nice in a pinch.

61 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:10:54pm

re: #9 Sol Berdinowitz

These guys long for an age which never existed, one in which we all lived as self-sustaining, self-sufficient settlers on a piece of pristine wilderness we carved out and tamed with our bare hands...with only minimal help from the Federal army in driving off those pesky natives.

I have a pet notion that Thomas Jefferson had exactly that ideal in mind; a land of smallholding farmers, everybody with their own little patch, free to pursue their interests within the bounds of their class. I think he was a bit of a Romantic that way, and it doesn't surprise me that he didn't get along with Hamilton, who saw that a powerful America demanded centralization.

The right wing is fundamentally just a bunch of Romantics, imagining back to some non-existent time when White Might was Right, gays didn't exist, kinder, kueche, und kirche was the guiding notion of womanhood, and everybody was happy being precisely the same as everybody else.

Of course, the whole thing is bullshit, but people do love their fantasies.

62 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:11:22pm

re: #56 HappyWarrior

I watched on Amazon Prime earlier in the month. Definitely. I do wish Burns had emphaized the xenophobia that drove some of the prohibition movement. The part about the man being lynched for speaking German disturbed the hell out of me especially because I had German immigrant ancestors in the US at that time. They obviously survived but it made me wonder about what they endured during the WWI years.

I'm right at that part. "Real Americans" Small towns vs. the horrible cities.

63 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:11:37pm

re: #59 sattv4u2

PA supermarkets do not have any drinkable alcohol. The Drys are still giving us heck. /

64 allegro  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:12:38pm

re: #61 Pawn of the Oppressor

Of course, the whole thing is bullshit, but people do love their fantasies.

I'm fantasizing about Charles' sandwich.

65 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:13:24pm

re: #63 PhillyPretzel

PA supermarkets do not have any drinkable alcohol. The Drys are still giving us heck. /

Yeah, but on the way there or back you could just go to a drive thru liquor store!!!

shhheeeshhh,,, I have to think of everything!!

66 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:13:43pm

re: #64 allegro

I'm fantasizing about Charles' sandwich.

You really need to get a hobby!

67 erik_t  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:14:25pm

re: #63 PhillyPretzel

PA supermarkets do not have any drinkable alcohol. The Drys are still giving us heck. /

The Drys will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.

68 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:14:37pm

re: #65 sattv4u2

I do not have a car and PA has State Stores that you must walk into in order to purchase said drinkable alcohol.

69 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:15:11pm

re: #62 Stanghazi

I'm right at that part. "Real Americans" Small towns vs. the horrible cities.

Yeah he does emphasize it but I wish he had more. Does it remind you of today any? It really reminded me of how we hear about how awful "urban elites" are and how there's a "real America".

70 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:15:37pm

re: #67 erik_t

The Drys will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.

You will take my whiskey from my stone cold fingers.

71 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:15:41pm

re: #68 PhillyPretzel

I do not have a car and PA has State Stores that you must walk into in order to purchase said drinkable alcohol.

I seem to recall being in Butler PA in the late 70's/ early 80's and going to a drive thru

72 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:15:48pm

re: #56 HappyWarrior

I watched on Amazon Prime earlier in the month. Definitely. I do wish Burns had emphaized the xenophobia that drove some of the prohibition movement. The part about the man being lynched for speaking German disturbed the hell out of me especially because I had German immigrant ancestors in the US at that time. They obviously survived but it made me wonder about what they endured during the WWI years.

Kurt Vonnegut wrote about this. His family stopped speaking German as a second language and ignored most of their cultural heritage.

73 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:16:40pm

re: #45 wrenchwench

I'm going to go buy some almonds right now!

You do have to let the food processor run for quite a while, so be prepared for that. For a long time it will look like it's never going to be almond butter, but eventually it magically transforms into creamy smooth deliciousness. This batch took about a half hour, I think.

74 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:16:49pm

I guess Va has fairly liberal alcohol laws. I can get beer in the grocery store and at 7-11s and places like that. Have to get liquor at ABC stores but they're abundant. Now in my ideal universe, we'd be more like Europe and able to get it at the grocery store.

75 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:16:56pm

re: #71 sattv4u2

Fine. You can go to Butler PA. I will stay in Philly. :)

76 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:19:33pm

re: #72 Iwouldprefernotto

Kurt Vonnegut wrote about this. His family stopped speaking German as a second language and ignored most of their cultural heritage.

I really need to read some of his work. I'd expect that his family's experience wasn't unique. The anti-German backlash during the first world war was something else. I mean they even started calling sauerkraut- liberty cabbage. Forget what the silly name they gave dachshunds. Reading about it though reminded me of the whole silly anti-French outrages in the wake of the Iraq War. I even went to the Congressional Cafeteria when they were still serving "Freedom Fries." All so stupid not least because of French Fries' Belgian origin. And then reading that French's mustard had to say that French was merely their founder's surname not any indication of nationality. Ranting but man people get stupid.

77 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:22:43pm

re: #74 HappyWarrior

I guess Va has fairly liberal alcohol laws. I can get beer in the grocery store and at 7-11s and places like that. Have to get liquor at ABC stores but they're abundant. Now in my ideal universe, we'd be more like Europe and able to get it at the grocery store.

[Link: www.oddballdaily.com...]
14 Weird Liquor Laws

78 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:22:50pm

The South's biggest fear: A black man with a ballot in one hand and a bottle in the other.

Damn.

79 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:23:23pm

re: #76 HappyWarrior

And then reading that French's mustard had to say that French was merely their founder's surname not any indication of nationality. Ranting but man people get stupid.

At least it isn't Dijon Mustard. We all know now that French's mustard is for real Americans, just like Heinz's ketchup...

80 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:25:12pm

re: #77 sattv4u2

[Link: www.oddballdaily.com...]
14 Weird Liquor Laws

I witnessed a scene in German supermaket some years back in which a kid, aged around ten, came in and slapped down 20 marks for two bottles of schnapps.

It was clear from the conversation with the cashier that the woman knew the kid and knew that he was getting it for his father, but such a scene would be inconceivable in the USA.

81 Lidane  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:25:22pm

Hey, look at that. The idiocy of"legitimate rape" is apparently international:

82 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:25:47pm

re: #77 sattv4u2

Well they got PA liquor laws right. Totally confusing.

83 SidewaysQuark  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:26:16pm

The "iron rules of history and logic"? You can't write parody phrases that obtuse. hahahaha

84 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:26:35pm

o.t.

after wrestling with porting a 6600 line module to pl/sql for four days, i am compelled to condemn it for these sins:

substr() indexes the first position in a string as location 1, instead of zero as any true nerdsman would

the IN operator, as in *mystring* IN (*list of strings*), returns true if *mystring* is empty even if there are no empty strings in *list of strings*

other pgmrs beware beware beware

85 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:26:47pm

re: #81 Lidane

Hey, look at that. The idiocy of"legitimate rape" is apparently international:

[Embedded content]

Something in the line of "If your friends are like this, who needs enemies." Why the fuck can't some people just say rape is rape? It's not that fucking hard. World of morons and in this case morons who are enforcing the law.

86 BongCrodny  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:27:18pm

re: #79 Sol Berdinowitz

At least it isn't Dijon Mustard. We all know now that Frencvh's mustard is for real Americans, just like Heinz's ketchup...

No, no -- Freedom Mustard.

And I note that if we're going to Americanize "Heinz," it means "ruler of the home" -- so, "Wife's Ketchup."

87 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:27:56pm

re: #80 Sol Berdinowitz

I witnessed a scene in German supermaket some years back in which a kid, aged around ten, came in and slapped down 20 marks for two bottles of schnapps.

It was clear from the conversation with the cashier that the woman knew the kid and knew that he was getting it for his father, but such a scene would be inconceivable in the USA.

Times change
I recall as a kid around that age I would go to the store and get cigarettes for my parents (dad smoked L & M filtered, mom smoked Chesterfield non-filtered)

88 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:28:45pm

re: #86 BongCrodny

No, no -- Freedom Mustard.

And I note that if we're going to Americanize "Heinz," it means "ruler of the home" -- so, "Wife's Ketchup."

Reminds me, do you remember people boycotting Heinz Ketchup in 2004 because of its affiliation with Teresa Heinz Kerry? That was silly. But hey their fuck up because Heinz makes the best ketchup in the US.

89 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:29:51pm

re: #80 Sol Berdinowitz

I witnessed a scene in German supermaket some years back in which a kid, aged around ten, came in and slapped down 20 marks for two bottles of schnapps.

It was clear from the conversation with the cashier that the woman knew the kid and knew that he was getting it for his father, but such a scene would be inconceivable in the USA.

The only time I got carded when I was in Europe was in Germany. I didn't have my ID or passport on me but I told the cashier I was over 18 and she took my word. I can't imagine that kind of thing happening in the US ever.

90 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:29:56pm

re: #87 sattv4u2

Times change
I recall as a kid around that age I would go to the store and get cigarettes for my parents (dad smoked L & M filtered, mom smoked Chesterfield non-filtered)

the cashier knew that if you were buying them for yourself you would get kools

91 lawhawk  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:30:14pm

Since we're on the subject of food, here's a few things any well stocked kitchen (and cook) should have at their disposal:

Good knives. I like Wustof, but go with the one that feels comfy in your hand. Paring/utility, carving, santoku at a minimum.

Food processor. I've got a dual use Cuisanart - blender/food processor, but a straight food processor also fits the bill.

Immersion blender. Ever want to do pesto? This is the best and easiest way to do it. Better yet, want to get creamy soups, even when hot? This is the only way to do it without worrying about the soup exploding out of your blender.

For pots and pans, anything that feels solid and provides even heating should work. I stay away from nonstick coatings for the most part, but if you use plastic/wood utensils, you'll extend life on the nonstick coatings.

Flat bottom wok - for those who like stir fry, make sure you season it ahead of use, and regularly oil so that you get a nice non-stick surface to work with.

Dutch oven. For most one-pot meals, this is the way to go.

92 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:30:27pm

re: #88 HappyWarrior

Reminds me, do you remember people boycotting Heinz Ketchup in 2004 because of its affiliation with Teresa Heinz Kerry? That was silly. But hey their fuck up because Heinz makes the best ketchup in the US.

I am not brand conscious about most anything except Heinz's ketchup. Kraft will do in a pinch, but I will not buy any other brands.

93 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:31:27pm

re: #73 Charles Johnson

You do have to let the food processor run for quite a while, so be prepared for that. For a long time it will look like it's never going to be almond butter, but eventually it magically transforms into creamy smooth deliciousness. This batch took about a half hour, I think.

Almonds: $6.89 a pound

Organic almonds: $9.99 a pound

Almond butter: $19.99 a pound!

We have a kind of mini processor that will burn out the motor if I run it for half an hour. I'll just start and stop it 87 million times, or whatever it takes.

Did you add salt? I'm going to add salt.

94 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:31:38pm

re: #92 Sol Berdinowitz

I am not brand conscious about most anything except Heinz's ketchup. Kraft will do in a pinch, but I will not buy any other brands.

I'm usually not either especially with condiments. But Heinz is that good. I do prefer the deli mustard to the yellow mustard but that's a matter of preference in taste than brand.

95 dragonath  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:32:58pm

Actually Sysco(!) makes a halfway decent ketchup- it's called House Recipe. It's a little thicker and spicier than Heinz.

Everybody else's are just too sweet.

96 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:33:27pm

re: #90 engineer cat

the cashier knew that if you were buying them for yourself you would get kools

Actually, Salems, if i wanted menthol

If not, either Marlboros or Winstons

97 Lidane  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:34:00pm

re: #91 lawhawk

Since we're on the subject of food, here's a few things any well stocked kitchen (and cook) should have at their disposal:

Good knives. I like Wustof, but go with the one that feels comfy in your hand. Paring/utility, carving, santoku at a minimum.

Food processor. I've got a dual use Cuisanart - blender/food processor, but a straight food processor also fits the bill.

Immersion blender. Ever want to do pesto? This is the best and easiest way to do it. Better yet, want to get creamy soups, even when hot? This is the only way to do it without worrying about the soup exploding out of your blender.

For pots and pans, anything that feels solid and provides even heating should work. I stay away from nonstick coatings for the most part, but if you use plastic/wood utensils, you'll extend life on the nonstick coatings.

Flat bottom wok - for those who like stir fry, make sure you season it ahead of use, and regularly oil so that you get a nice non-stick surface to work with.

Dutch oven. For most one-pot meals, this is the way to go.

I would also add a cast iron skillet to that list. Sure, they take some work to maintain, but they're awesome for steaks, especially since they can be used in recipes like this one.

98 ThomasLite  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:34:02pm

re: #74 HappyWarrior

I guess Va has fairly liberal alcohol laws. I can get beer in the grocery store and at 7-11s and places like that. Have to get liquor at ABC stores but they're abundant. Now in my ideal universe, we'd be more like Europe and able to get it at the grocery store.

...That would depend on what part of europe. anything not wine, beer or

99 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:34:20pm

re: #95 dragonath

Actually Sysco(!) makes a halfway decent ketchup- it's called House Recipe. It's a little thicker and spicier than Heinz.

Everybody else's are just too sweet.

I'll look for that. I like a lit bit of a spice in ketchup.

100 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:35:38pm

re: #97 Lidane

I would also add a cast iron skillet to that list. Sure, they take some work to maintain, but they're awesome for steaks, especially since they can be used in recipes like this one.

Cast iron for everything! And bamboo utensils can be easily sharpened.

101 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:37:33pm

re: #92 Sol Berdinowitz

I am not brand conscious about most anything except Heinz's ketchup. Kraft will do in a pinch, but I will not buy any other brands.

Gewürz curry ketchup. The only ketchup I buy. You can find it in some specialty stores in the USA, usually German delis.

102 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:37:56pm

re: #98 ThomasLite

...That would depend on what part of europe. anything not wine, beer or

Yeah my mistake for assuming it's universally the same. Germany seemed to probably have it the best. Man I want to go back there. Only really got the superficial tourist experience by and large with the cities I visited.

103 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:38:52pm

re: #101 Dr Lizardo

Gewürz curry ketchup. The only ketchup I buy. You can find it in some specialty stores in the USA, usually German delis.

*gag*

104 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:40:30pm

re: #103 Sol Berdinowitz

I like it. I first got hooked on it in Sweden. Along with Kalles Kaviar (which you can find at any IKEA). Caviar in a toothpaste tube.....what a concept!

105 ThomasLite  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:40:58pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

...Somehow system seems to not like my posts over txt msg size again.
Yeah, Germany has it best with liquor. EU is pushing to take liquor out of supermarkets, though, "for the children" etc.
Don't think it'll help much - but it's not that big a bother either.
still I know guys who get pot because they can get it faster (legal!) than liquor sometimes.

106 lawhawk  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:43:27pm

re: #97 Lidane

I would generally agree, except that weight can be an issue for some folks - and if something is too heavy, you're going to find yourself not using it nearly as much. I've got stainless pots and pans, they're not as heavy as the cast irons, but give nice even heat.

107 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:44:33pm

re: #95 dragonath

Actually Sysco(!) makes a halfway decent ketchup- it's called House Recipe. It's a little thicker and spicier than Heinz.

Everybody else's are just too sweet.

I finally found a bottled salad dressing that's not too sweet. Organicville. I haven't seen the first two there, the third one I'd skip because I have a bottle of balsamic vinegar and a bottle of EV olive oil. The fourth one, Sun Dried Tomato & Garlic Organic Vinaigrette, tastes like a really good pizza, and the fifth one, Miso Ginger Organic Vinaigrette, is my favorite commercial salad dressing ever.

108 lawhawk  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:45:28pm

re: #91 lawhawk

Oh, and if you know someone who likes to bake, then a Kitchen Aid is absolutely mandatory. Sure, there are other stand mixers out there, but IMO, nothing works nearly as well.

109 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:46:50pm

I want a steak now. Real bad.

110 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:47:00pm

re: #109 Stanghazi

I want a steak now. Real bad.

And some booze.

111 lawhawk  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:47:08pm

re: #107 wrenchwench

I'm a fan of making my own. Sure, I'll get the store bought stuff, but when my herb garden is in full bloom, I'm grabbing whatever's going, add some vinegar (balsamic or wine or apple), olive oil, and immersion blend away. Nothing quite as good from a bottle, and it has far less crap added (preservatives, colors, etc.)

112 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:47:55pm

re: #110 Stanghazi

And some booze.

I feel ya. Running low on the Beam here and no beer in the fridge.

113 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:47:56pm

re: #104 Dr Lizardo

I like it. I first got hooked on it in Sweden. Along with Kalles Kaviar (which you can find at any IKEA). Caviar in a toothpaste tube.....what a concept!

Germans like to put things like mayo, remoulade, mustard and horseradish in toothpaste tubes. I had a friend out to visit who complained at one point about his roomates using his toothpate. I suggested he just leave a tube of German horseradish out on the bathroom shelf...

Solved his toothpaste problems.

114 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:48:28pm

Well, I'm down for the day. My knee has blown up again and draining is only a temp. solution. Guess I'm need to get it scoped and fixed. The good news is that my doc gave me Oxycontin for pain. I'm feeling pretty good right now. Not good enough to go out dancing tonight but pretty dang good.

115 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:49:35pm
116 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:49:45pm

re: #93 wrenchwench

Almonds: $6.89 a pound

Organic almonds: $9.99 a pound

Almond butter: $19.99 a pound!

We have a kind of mini processor that will burn out the motor if I run it for half an hour. I'll just start and stop it 87 million times, or whatever it takes.

Did you add salt? I'm going to add salt.

I did add a little salt right at the end. You don't have to though, it's pretty good unsalted too.

117 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:50:20pm

re: #114 A Man for all Seasons

Well, I'm down for the day. My knee has blown up again and draining is only a temp. solution. Guess I'm need to get it scoped and fixed. The good news is that my doc gave me Oxycontin for pain. I'm feeling pretty good right now. Not good enough to go out dancing tonight but pretty dang good.

Bummer for you Hoops!

118 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:51:22pm

Woman Held in Fatal Push of Man Onto Subway Tracks

A law enforcement official said that Ms. Menendez had “told the cops it was an act against Muslims,” and cited the Sept. 11 attacks. The victim, Sunando Sen, was born in India and, according to a roommate, was raised Hindu.

119 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:51:31pm

re: #111 lawhawk

I'm a fan of making my own. Sure, I'll get the store bought stuff, but when my herb garden is in full bloom, I'm grabbing whatever's going, add some vinegar (balsamic or wine or apple), olive oil, and immersion blend away. Nothing quite as good from a bottle, and it has far less crap added (preservatives, colors, etc.)

Oh, yeah, homemade is best. But I don't have an herb garden right now, and I need all the encouragement I can get to eat my vegetables.

My mom used to make a Russian dressing in the blender that used canned tomato soup. Everybody loved it.

120 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:52:33pm

re: #115 jaunte

[Embedded content]

He's a tough old dude.

121 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:52:50pm
122 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:53:42pm

re: #118 jaunte

Woman Held in Fatal Push of Man Onto Subway Tracks

Sigh. Even if the guy was Muslim, damn, what the hell is wrong with people?

123 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:54:16pm

Charles - I finally had time to listen to The Koln Concert undistracted with my nice Sennheiser headphones.

Wow. I get it now.

124 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:54:20pm

re: #122 HappyWarrior

Sigh. Even if the guy was Muslim, damn, what the hell is wrong with people?

Fox News fan.

125 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:54:32pm

re: #113 Sol Berdinowitz

Germans like to put things like mayo, remoulade, mustard and horseradish in toothpaste tubes. I had a friend out to visit who complained at one point about his roomates using his toothpate. I suggested he just leave a tube of German horseradish out on the bathroom shelf...

Solved his toothpaste problems.

Yeah, that would certainly do the trick.

I guess I was the weird kid when I was a child.....I used to enjoy liverwurst on rye with Swiss cheese. I'd bring that to school for lunch when I would brown-bag it; even a couple of the teachers looked at me funny. Probably explains why I enjoy peculiar things now. On the other hand, I have to admit, I never touched yogurt before I came to the Czech Republic; they have a local brand here called Chočenský, which is very good. My favorite....chocolate with hazelnut, followed by strawberry with vanilla, and none of that low-fat stuff either....it's the real deal.

126 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:54:35pm

re: #124 Interesting Times

Fox News fan.

Yeah, fuck em.

127 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:55:07pm

re: #122 HappyWarrior

I wonder if she saw Pam's bus poster ad campaign demonizing Muslims.

128 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:55:45pm

re: #127 jaunte

I wonder if she saw Pam's bus poster ad campaign demonizing Muslims.

Wouldn't shock me.

129 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:55:47pm

re: #127 jaunte

Probably.

130 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:57:10pm

re: #114 A Man for all Seasons

Well, I'm down for the day. My knee has blown up again and draining is only a temp. solution. Guess I'm need to get it scoped and fixed. The good news is that my doc gave me Oxycontin for pain. I'm feeling pretty good right now. Not good enough to go out dancing tonight but pretty dang good.

You should take up cycling. Done right, it's good for your knees.

Do it now before Obama takes away everybody's bikes!

131 Political Atheist  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 1:57:49pm

re: #114 A Man for all Seasons

Sorry to hear that dude. Hope it heals well. That draining is no fun either.

132 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:03:44pm

re: #130 wrenchwench

You should take up cycling. Done right, it's good for your knees.

Do it now before Obama takes away everybody's bikes!

I'm on to you!

133 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:07:35pm

re: #118 jaunte

Woman Held in Fatal Push of Man Onto Subway Tracks

Pamz and Robert Spencer, I hold you and your ilk completely responsible for shit like this.

Hell, y'all can't even be "good" bigots, because this nutjob mistook a Hindu man for a Muslim. Or, does this fall under "to make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs", Pamz and Robert?

*spit*

134 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:12:37pm
135 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:14:46pm

re: #134 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

The United Methodist Women's ad beside Pamz' is a great counterpoint.

For those who can't read it, it says:

Hate speech is not civilized.
Support peace in word and deed.
#mysubwayad

136 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:15:07pm

In order to get by the sacramental wine allowance, a lot of new Rabbi's named Shanahan & O'Reilly appeared.

- Prohibition

this is so freaking interesting.

137 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:17:12pm

re: #135 TedStriker

The United Methodist Women's ad beside Pamz' is a great counterpoint.

Can you read it?

138 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:17:45pm
139 Interesting Times  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:18:00pm

re: #135 TedStriker

The United Methodist Women's ad beside Pamz' is a great counterpoint.

I can't make out what it says on my crappy old laptop screen :(

140 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:18:41pm

re: #137 wrenchwench

Can you read it?

Look up...post edited.

141 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:19:48pm
142 Charles Johnson  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:20:47pm

re: #123 Kronocide

Charles - I finally had time to listen to The Koln Concert undistracted with my nice Sennheiser headphones.

Wow. I get it now.

That's the way to hear it!

143 sagehen  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:23:56pm

re: #136 Stanghazi

In order to get by the sacramental wine allowance, a lot of new Rabbi's named Shanahan & O'Reilly appeared.

- Prohibition

this is so freaking interesting.

My grandparents got their Sabbath wine from bootleggers -- I come from a long line of paranoids, no way in hell were they going to put their names on any kind of official government Jew-list.

144 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:24:40pm

re: #134 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

That's gonna leave a mark.

145 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:26:00pm

re: #135 TedStriker

BTW, those ads apparently started running back in the early fall at every one of the ten subway stations where Pamz' ad went up, next to every one of them.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

146 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:28:36pm

Woman charged with murder as hate crime after shoving man in front of subway

“She told police that she pushed a Muslim off the train tracks. She said, ‘I’ve hated Hindus and Muslims since 2001 since they put down the Twin Towers. I have been beating them up since.”
...
The incoherent suspect was mumbling as cops questioned her, and at one point asked where the R train was, the sources added.

Her relatives called cops last night after seeing her on the news, law-enforcement sources said.

Menendez could have a criminal background -- and possibly a history of mental health issues, the sources said. She has recently been living in homeless shelters

.

147 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:29:52pm

re: #143 sagehen

My late mom lived in South Philly. There were folks who had wine in old water heaters. If you hooked up the wrong water heater you have running wine instead of water.

148 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:29:59pm
149 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:32:50pm

Scheduled for the Twelfth of Never.

150 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:33:32pm

re: #148 Gus

Whoa!

It seems she has mental problems. Pam's stupid ad might have been a factor but so far there's no evidence. This was most likely motivated by mental illness.

151 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:33:51pm

re: #127 jaunte

I wonder if she saw Pam's bus poster ad campaign demonizing Muslims.

Everybody riding the subways has seen those ads, but most of them know them to be pieces of hateful dreck.

Call this murderess'* actions "Sudden Counter-Jihad Syndrome".

152 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:34:34pm

re: #149 jaunte

I await the NRA's press conference urging all Middle Eastern and South Asian Americans to buy guns

Scheduled for the Twelfth of Never.

Guns don't kill, trains do!

153 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:35:22pm

re: #143 sagehen

My grandparents got their Sabbath wine from bootleggers -- I come from a long line of paranoids, no way in hell were they going to put their names on any kind of official government Jew-list.

They were from Chicago, if I remember right.

154 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:37:51pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

It seems she has mental problems. Pam's stupid ad might have been a factor but so far there's no evidence. This was most likely motivated by mental illness.

Only 'most likely?'

The hate is marketed just like fast food clothes. Don't be surprised when people buy what is marketed to them.

155 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:38:45pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

It seems she has mental problems. Pam's stupid ad might have been a factor but so far there's no evidence. This was most likely motivated by mental illness.

Maybe not but Geller's activities only perpetuate hatred and bigotry and an environment that leads to incidents like this. We are already aware of her influence on Anders Breivik. Steep the hate, reap the hate.

156 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:39:37pm

re: #150 Killgore Trout

It seems she has mental problems. Pam's stupid ad might have been a factor but so far there's no evidence. This was most likely motivated by mental illness.

That doesn't excuse the 116th Anti-Muslim Bigot Brigade (The Shrieking Harpies). Constant exposure to hateful propaganda like Geller's can have a profound effect on an unstable mind, and can in large part cause that mind fixate on the propaganda's target. When that sort of hate-fixation is paired with sufficient anger, deadly violence can be the result.

157 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:39:41pm

re: #152 Sol Berdinowitz

Guns don't kill, trains do!

Don't worry, wingnuts are already all over that angle. Nobody will be able to die in the US for the foreseeable future without some mouth breather asking why we aren't doing anything about that particular cause of death while pursuing gun control.

158 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:40:20pm

re: #154 Kronocide

Only 'most likely?'

The hate is marketed just like fast food clothes. Don't be surprised when people buy what is marketed to them.

PIYF

159 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:44:31pm

Someone might want to inform Medved that his iron has turned into rust.

160 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:46:17pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

That doesn't excuse the 116th Anti-Muslim Bigot Brigade (The Shrieking Harpies). Constant exposure to hateful propaganda like Geller's can have a profound effect on an unstable mind, and can in large part cause that mind fixate on the propaganda's target. When that sort of hate-fixation is paired with sufficient anger, deadly violence can be the result.

No it doesn't excuse anything but there's no evidence that the crazy subway lady was inspired by Geller's writings or advertisements. It's possible but there's no evidence so far. If anything I would guess she was probably more influenced by the subway pushing incident a few weeks ago.

161 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:51:52pm

Hey Girl, Boy-Banders One Direction Gonna Make You Muslin All Night Long

Debbie Schlussel is here to warn parents that a member of boy group One Direction (we know who they are because we do not live in a cave, but we are not 12 so we have no idea which one is which either) is a muslin who wants to jihad and sexytime your daughters:

I'm not going to link directly to the crazy, but man is this over the top, can't-be-parodied stuff.

162 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:54:23pm

re: #161 The Ghost of a Flea

Muslin? Hmm turning someone into cloth? [Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]

163 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:54:43pm

BBL

164 stabby  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:56:07pm

re: #4 wrenchwench

I think that one of the main reasons Romney was surprised when he lost the election was because he and the others on the Right have never known who Barack Obama is. Too late, he discovered that he wasn't running against the RW Obama caricature but the real one.

favorited! Though I suppose I should have favorited what you were quoting.

Actually I think that caricature is just a proxy for saying "n*****" since all of it is obviously, demonstratably false.

Their surprise is that being black turns out not to mean the same thing to non-bigots that it means to them.

165 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:56:11pm

re: #162 PhillyPretzel

Wait until they accuse Psy of turning everyone into gingham.

166 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:56:59pm

re: #165 freetoken

yeah. lol

167 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:57:34pm

re: #161 The Ghost of a Flea

Hey Girl, Boy-Banders One Direction Gonna Make You Muslin All Night Long

I'm not going to link directly to the crazy, but man is this over the top, can't-be-parodied stuff.

That garbage from Schlussel is from June. Thought it sounded familiar. She's psycho. Well, the anti-Jihad bloggers are ALL psycho. Weird that.

168 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:58:10pm

Muslins.
Who are they?
Where are they from?
Should I be afraid of them?
Does this fedora make me look badass?

169 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 2:58:34pm

Soon they will be establishing Sharia corduroys all over town

170 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:00:25pm

re: #169 Sol Berdinowitz

Soon they will be establishing Sharia corduroys all over town

The dreaded Sharia corduroys! //

Nice play on words.

171 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:00:35pm

The Josh Keating writes a look back:

The 10 worst predictions of 2012

Three of the ten:

The Romney Landslide — Dick Morris
One-Term Proposition — Barack Obama
The Coming Collapse of China (Redux) — Gordon Chang

A little bit of MBF going on in that column.

172 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:02:06pm

jihad and sexytime your daughters

173 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:02:13pm

re: #170 Dr Lizardo

Nice play on words.

And speaking of plays, how about the famous "Waiting for Godet"? Clearly an attempt to mainstream atheist marxist islam.

174 blueraven  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:05:03pm

re: #160 Killgore Trout

No it doesn't excuse anything but there's no evidence that the crazy subway lady was inspired by Geller's writings or advertisements. It's possible but there's no evidence so far. If anything I would guess she was probably more influenced by the subway pushing incident a few weeks ago.

Why would you guess that? There is no evidence. She admitted to hating Muslims and Hindus.

Geller's hate speech is particularity dangerous to the susceptible mind.

175 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:05:18pm

re: #173 freetoken

And speaking of plays, how about the famous "Waiting for Godet"? Clearly an attempt to mainstream atheist marxist islam.

The terrifying confluence of muslin and linen.

The Old Testament told us not to mix our fabrics for a reason.

176 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:07:40pm

re: #173 freetoken

And speaking of plays, how about the famous "Waiting for Godet"? Clearly an attempt to mainstream atheist marxist islam.

lolololol. Indeed. The much-feared Islamoatheisticmarxism. Makes wingnuts soil themselves in blind terror!

177 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:08:43pm

I just sold a bike.

GET YOURS BEFORE OBAMA DOES!!!

178 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:09:24pm

re: #174 blueraven

Why would you guess that? There is no evidence. She admitted to hating Muslims and Hindus.

Geller's hate speech is particularity dangerous to the susceptible mind.

Same ole same ole.

179 darthstar  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:09:29pm

ASU is killing Navy right now. Maybe all these bowl games aren't such a great idea.

180 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:10:53pm

re: #164 stabby

favorited! Though I suppose I should have favorited what you were quoting.

Actually I think that caricature is just a proxy for saying "n*****" since all of it is obviously, demonstratably false.

Their surprise is that being black turns out not to mean the same thing to non-bigots that it means to them.

Yes, you should favorite the original, or at least upding it: majii's words of wisdom.

181 darthstar  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:12:54pm

Okay...time to go rescue the missus from this bowl game if I'm going to get there at the start of the 4th quarter...apparently John McCain is in the house adding a dose of grumpiness to the event.

182 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:13:45pm

re: #181 darthstar

Okay...time to go rescue the missus from this bowl game if I'm going to get there at the start of the 4th quarter...apparently John McCain is in the house adding a dose of grumpiness to the event.

That's who Tarder Sauce reminds me of!

183 dragonfire1981  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:13:47pm

re: #174 blueraven

Why would you guess that? There is no evidence. She admitted to hating Muslims and Hindus.

Geller's hate speech is particularity dangerous to the susceptible mind.

And unfortunately no matter how inflammatory that rhetoric is or how many people cite it as justification for an act of hate/violence, Geller will probably never see a single day in jail for any of it.

184 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:15:22pm

re: #171 freetoken

The Josh Keating writes a look back:

The 10 worst predictions of 2012

of course there is also the perennial buy gold prediction 'massive inflation in six months u.s. dollars won't be worth nothin'

185 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:15:31pm

re: #174 blueraven

Why would you guess that? There is no evidence. She admitted to hating Muslims and Hindus.

Geller's hate speech is particularity dangerous to the susceptible mind.

Because these subway pushings are very very rare. To have a second one a few weeks after the first makes me think it might be a copycat.

186 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:15:47pm
Boy Band Jihad: Mega Pop Star Pimping Islam on Your Daughters

Validated: cannot be caricaturized. Schlussel outdoes herself.

187 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:16:04pm

re: #182 wrenchwench

That's who Tarder Sauce reminds me of!

i can't get the tarder sauce i'm already too late

188 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:16:39pm
189 RadicalModerate  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:16:42pm

re: #179 darthstar

ASU is killing Navy right now. Maybe all these bowl games aren't such a great idea.

I switched over to the WVU/Syracuse Pinstripe Bowl game, which isn't any more competitive. Seeing football in Yankee Stadium in a driving snowstorm is a bit surreal though.

190 dragonfire1981  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:17:08pm

I find myself wondering what the national discourse would be like if the 2nd Amendment read:

"A well conditioned and productive populace, being necessary to the prosperity of a free nation, the right of the people to adequate health care shall not be infringed."

191 dragonfire1981  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:18:33pm

re: #172 Kronocide

jihad and sexytime your daughters

I'm Muslim and I know it...

Look at that rifle...
Look at that rifle...
Look at that rifle...

Jihad!

192 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:24:40pm
193 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:25:11pm

re: #183 dragonfire1981

And unfortunately no matter how inflammatory that rhetoric is or how many people cite it as justification for an act of hate/violence, Geller will probably never see a single day in jail for any of it.

While that's true, Pamz should also recall the fate of Tom Metzger. He was civilly sued and bankrupted for the death of Mulugeta Seraw, an Ethiopian student, at the hands of white supremacists in Portland, Oregon.

While Pamz has never instructed anyone to commit violence, to the best of my knowledge, she doesn't seem to dissociate herself from it either, at least not much. She supports those clowns at the EDL, after all.

194 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:27:22pm
195 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:28:20pm

re: #192 Gus

On the fifth day of Christmas my true love gave to me,
5 comatose cats carrying apples,
...

Just doesn't seem to rhyme well.

196 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:29:02pm
197 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:29:35pm

re: #195 freetoken

On the fifth day of Christmas my true love gave to me,
5 comatose cats carrying apples,
...

Just doesn't seem to rhyme well.

かご猫 Blog - YouTube

かご猫 Blog

198 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:32:49pm

re: #197 Gus

They can't do five golden rings? /half kidding

199 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:33:26pm

Jerry Coyne is still snarkily working his way through the Bible:

I’ve reached the New Testament!


I left a brief response.

Anyway, while Coyne is certainly free to waste his time covering well tread ground, all of the questions he raises have been raised countless times before, in ages ago.

These religious quandaries are old, and have no good answer for the person who wishes all the statements of the "Bible" to be absolutely true as written. That was known long ago, which is why even the earliest writers (Jewish and Christian) interpreted many stories as allegories.

200 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:34:53pm

re: #198 PhillyPretzel

They can't do five golden rings? /half kidding

5匹のサンタ Santa Claus CAT

ICYMI

201 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:34:54pm

re: #198 PhillyPretzel

They can't do five golden rings? /half kidding

I think it might be an intentional play on words.

The Japanese word for "apple", as in that video and as written in the Kanji, is りんご - pronounced "ri-n-go".

202 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:34:59pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

Well on the subject of sandwiches nothing like what Charles had but I had a mesquite turkey, Gouda cheese, and lettuce on white. Not bad.

You Philistine.

203 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:36:29pm

Yes it is true. Pam is having them all placed up high and out of reach.

Pam blows harder than Westboro.

204 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:37:12pm

re: #200 Gus

No sounds but the cats are adorable.

205 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:38:27pm

re: #204 PhillyPretzel

No sounds but the cats are adorable.

It's very quiet anyway. No music or anything. Just a quiet house. Very meditative.

206 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:39:57pm

Speaking of Scrooges, none other than Ken Ham lectures parents on the theological shortcomings of A Christmas Carol.

Yes, really.

207 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:41:30pm

Here's my New Year's wish - that some photog snaps images of Ken Ham and Pam Geller galavanting nekkid together on some beach in the Bahamas, and sells those photos for a million dollars.

208 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:43:45pm

Dark and gloomy here - the weather, I mean - perhaps it might rain.

But this is San Diego, I thought is was always sunny here? That's what the brochures said.

209 blueraven  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:44:34pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Because these subway pushings are very very rare. To have a second one a few weeks after the first makes me think it might be a copycat.

Could be. That doesn't negate the possibility that Geller's hate speech inspired her to copycat the crime and choose her victim based upon it.

Right now...you dont know and I dont know. One possibility is just as likely as the other. Also, neither or both.

210 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:49:26pm

re: #209 blueraven

Could be. That doesn't negate the possibility that Geller's hate speech inspired her to copycat the crime and choose her victim based upon it.

Right now...you dont know and I dont know. One possibility is just as likely as the other. Also, neither or both.

Of course it's a possibility but it only helps Pam when people jump the gun and start accusing her without evidence. The most recent examples I can think of are the Sihk Temple shooting and the and the fake hatecrime in California when the family killed the the mother. Making baseless or overblown accusations is unhelpful.

211 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:51:25pm

Because it is just to hard to create order out of the chaos of universal suffrage and equality under the law. Because Right-Wing Whacko's can't fathom it it cannot possibly work, therefore we must, MUST, go back to the 1950's in which everything made sense and worked and White Men were at the top of the food chain-regardless of merit.

*spit*

212 A Mom Anon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:52:55pm

re: #206 freetoken

So this guy dresses himself and actually leaves the house daily?

It's truly stunning to me,even after far too many years of living amongst the wingy-est of the wingnuts , how if something doesn't have Jesus plastered all over it in neon colors then it just can't be good or godly. You'd think faith as strong as theirs would be able to endure ANY sort of challenge, even one so terrible as not seeing Bible verses everywhere or having to cavort amongst us heathens who manage to be wonderful humans without the threat of doom and destruction hanging over our heads every waking moment.

213 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:53:52pm

re: #118 jaunte

Woman Held in Fatal Push of Man Onto Subway Tracks

A law enforcement official said that Ms. Menendez had “told the cops it was an act against Muslims,” and cited the Sept. 11 attacks.

she was probably inspired by Pam's subway posters.

214 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:55:47pm

re: #211 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Because it is just to hard to create order out of the chaos of universal suffrage and equality under the law. Because Right-Wing Whacko's can't fathom it it cannot possibly work, therefore we must, MUST, go back to the 1950's in which everything made sense and worked and White Men were at the top of the food chain-regardless of merit.

*spit*

i'd rather be at the top of the foo chain

foo foo foo foo foo

215 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:56:41pm

re: #214 engineer cat

i'd rather be at the top of the foo chain

foo foo foo foo foo

What is this foo chain of which you speak?

216 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 3:59:16pm

I'm bored. And it's only day 1 of 4. And I'm NOT taking down the tree.

217 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:00:46pm

re: #215 Holidays are Family Fun Time

What is this foo chain of which you speak?

(sings)

"ch-ch-chain

chain of foos"

218 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:01:47pm

re: #216 Stanghazi

I'm bored. And it's only day 1 of 4. And I'm NOT taking down the tree.

Tomorrow: I am going swimming and getting my nails done. Maybe grocery shopping at Whole Foods. We had a rib roast on Friday night so we will have sliced leftovers of that, along with wild rice & sweet potatoes.

Monday: Chinese food!

Tuesday: Bake bread!

219 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:02:47pm

re: #216 Stanghazi

I'm bored. And it's only day 1 of 4. And I'm NOT taking down the tree.

I hear ya sister.. I'm laid up buzzed on pain killers with Winston on my lap.
I keep telling him to throw something in the microwave for me.. Dogs are useless!
/

220 blueraven  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:05:51pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

Of course it's a possibility but it only helps Pam when people jump the gun and start accusing her without evidence. The most recent examples I can think of are the Sihk Temple shooting and the and the fake hatecrime in California when the family killed the the mother. Making baseless or overblown accusations is unhelpful.

Lighten up Francis. Nobody is accusing her of anything at this point. But it could have been a factor, as you mentioned yourself. That is all.

221 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:07:15pm

re: #218 Vicious Babushka

Tomorrow: I am going swimming and getting my nails done. Maybe grocery shopping at Whole Foods. We had a rib roast on Friday night so we will have sliced leftovers of that, along with wild rice & sweet potatoes.

Monday: Chinese food!

Tuesday: Bake bread!

Sounds great! I wanted to get my car done, but it's raining. Nails sound like a possibility.

I'm also hungry for le boeuf and WISH I had a rib roast handy. I am actually thinking of getting a cast iron pan (don't have one) so I can make an awesome steak without a grill. Boredom = cooking for me.

222 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:09:18pm

re: #221 Stanghazi

Lodge Cast Iron Skillets from Amazon. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

223 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:11:36pm

In this season of religious observation (for several religions), I find it more than ironic, and moronic, that the racist right played full on their racism and cries for a return to "Christianity" in Christmas.

I won't like to them, but various sites such as Taki's mag run articles championing the whiteness of America's past, and how great it was, and how meaningless blacks were, at the same time lamenting the de-Christianization of "Christmas".

Though more main-stream right wing outlets, like Fox News, aren't so blunt in their atavism, the strains are still there, as well as the overlap in personalities.

Derbyshire leaps on the Newtown massacre to prove once again blacks are more likely to be murderers (as if that has anything to do with Newtown), as just one example.

I have nothing but derision for these folk.

224 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:11:40pm

re: #219 A Man for all Seasons

I hear ya sister.. I'm laid up buzzed on pain killers with Winston on my lap.
I keep telling him to throw something in the microwave for me.. Dogs are useless!
/

I read your post and thought of the oxy in my cabinet. Prob not a good idea without pain! Although I'm watching Prohibition and it's making me rebellious!

Any good delivery in your area? Winston will help you eat it at least.

225 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:14:11pm

re: #222 PhillyPretzel

Lodge Cast Iron Skillets from Amazon. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

There's a big assed new thrift store a block away from me called Savers. Anyone heard of it? They have one storefront for intake and the other side is the size of Ross. After expenses, they are charity...maybe....

I'm thinking I could get one pre-seasoned and cheap there. lol.

226 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:16:06pm

I've got to coin a word that combines "ironic" and "moronic".

How about iromoronic ?

As in "Pat Buchanan is once again writing iromoronically".

Eh?

227 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:16:33pm

I followed Y R There Monkeys??? (@TakeThatDarwin) a while back on twitter.
It's almost too much derp, too often.

228 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:16:42pm

re: #226 freetoken

Sounds good to me. :)

229 RadicalModerate  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:17:33pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

Of course it's a possibility but it only helps Pam when people jump the gun and start accusing her without evidence. The most recent examples I can think of are the Sihk Temple shooting and the and the fake hatecrime in California when the family killed the the mother. Making baseless or overblown accusations is unhelpful.

If you don't think that Pam is cheering this - and other crimes committed against Muslims (and people perceived as such) then you are indeed living in a fantasy world. This result is EXACTLY what she intended.

230 stabby  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:17:36pm

I just had an interesting conversation on another blog that resulted in a bunch of comments being deleted.

Apparently there are Republicans who feel that an appropriate response to someone who points out that the constant slander of Obama is rooting in racism - is to spread slander about my own life and business.

The funny thing is that these were British right wingers (moved to the US) who've adopted Republicans for their own paternalistic love. It's reminiscent of how British activists adopt the Palestinian cause without ever being able to admit that there is a core of antisemitism in the foreign movement that they've adopted.

231 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:19:50pm

re: #225 Stanghazi

There's a big assed new thrift store a block away from me called Savers. Anyone heard of it? They have one storefront for intake and the other side is the size of Ross. After expenses, they are charity...maybe....

I'm thinking I could get one pre-seasoned and cheap there. lol.

If you don't need it right away, I can fix you up. Mr. w is selling vintage cast iron, cleaned and seasoned. Way better than Lodge. DM me on Twitter.

232 freetoken  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:20:16pm

re: #230 stabby

I've known the type. E.g., an ex-Brit who moves to the US to whine about socialism and "Pakis". Or an older couple from Rhodesia, who still refuses to refer to it by its new name.

The racist looked to America as their last refuge.

233 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:22:17pm

re: #229 RadicalModerate

If you don't think that Pam is cheering this - and other crimes committed against Muslims (and people perceived as such) then you are indeed living in a fantasy world. This result is EXACTLY what she intended.

I think Pam is cheering this on, more or less discreetly, because she wants violence against Muslims to occur. As I posted upthread however, she needs to be mindful of what happened to Tom Metzger, founder of WAR (White Aryan Resistance) who was essentially bankrupted by the SPLC in a civil case pertaining to the beating death of an Ethiopian gent in Portland Oregon by some of Mr. Metzger's more devoted acolytes.

234 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:22:27pm

re: #224 Stanghazi

I read your post and thought of the oxy in my cabinet. Prob not a good idea without pain! Although I'm watching Prohibition and it's making me rebellious!

Any good delivery in your area? Winston will help you eat it at least.

Yeah. The nice thing about living in a college town is the delivery of food at about anytime day or night. I love it.
I'm going to call in an order of Chicken Alfredo pasta and Boomer Shroomers. Whole mushrooms cooked in butter garlic sauce and parmesan.

hope today finds you well

235 stabby  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:23:12pm

re: #232 freetoken

Naw, these are the sorts who would consider even a whiff of racism worse than most Americans would.

So they're more in denial than Americans that the Fox denizens who they've thrown in with are racists.

But they seem totally susceptible to the repressed racism of Bircherist paranoia. The stronger racism is consciously denied, I guess, the stronger its internal reach is.

236 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:27:09pm

First time I ever want a Bryan Fischer tweet to actually be true.

237 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:27:44pm

re: #231 wrenchwench

If you don't need it right away, I can fix you up. Mr. w is selling vintage cast iron, cleaned and seasoned. Way better than Lodge. DM me on Twitter.

I'm kinda being rash right now, steak tonight.

I wouldn't mind a nice pan though. I'll let you know if 1. I even leave the house to look, and 2. if I find anything!

GRACIAS!

238 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:31:35pm

re: #217 engineer cat

(sings)

"ch-ch-chain

chain of foos"

fi fi phui!

239 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:32:08pm

re: #237 Stanghazi

I'm kinda being rash right now, steak tonight.

I wouldn't mind a nice pan though. I'll let you know if 1. I even leave the house to look, and 2. if I find anything!

GRACIAS!

Here are seasoning instructions. The dirty skillets are cheap. You can clean and season anything. The Wagners that say 'Sydney' and the Griswolds that say 'Erie' are the good old ones. There are many other brands that are also good. Just make sure it's not warped or cracked.

240 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:33:36pm

re: #222 PhillyPretzel

Lodge Cast Iron Skillets from Amazon. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

I have wanted a cast iron skillet for a long time but they are pre-seasoned with some kind of fat so I wasn't sure if they are kosher. But Lodge is certified kosher & vegan.

241 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:35:08pm

re: #240 Vicious Babushka

Yes. One of the reasons why I got one a few years ago. I have to re-season it.

242 RadicalModerate  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:35:51pm

re: #233 Dr Lizardo

I think Pam is cheering this on, more or less discreetly, because she wants violence against Muslims to occur. As I posted upthread however, she needs to be mindful of what happened to Tom Metzger, founder of WAR (White Aryan Resistance) who was essentially bankrupted by the SPLC in a civil case pertaining to the beating death of an Ethiopian gent in Portland Oregon by some of Mr. Metzger's more devoted acolytes.

Given the fact that she didn't have a major problem with Anders Breivik's actions (going as far as citing "race mixing" ) and is publicly supportive of groups like the EDL and war criminals like Radovan Karadzic, I honestly don't think that discretion is in her vocabulary.

243 sagehen  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:38:13pm

re: #200 Gus

5匹のサンタ Santa Claus CAT

[Embedded content]

ICYMI

how does she make the cats sit still for these poses? They must be on drugs...

244 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:39:10pm

re: #243 sagehen

how does she make the cats sit still for these poses? They must be on drugs...

Nah. That would only be for American cats. These are cute mellow Japanese cats.

//

245 dragonath  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:44:08pm

re: #217 engineer dog

(sings)

"ch-ch-chain

chain of foos"

Here's the sleaziest version ever, courtesy of "Shake" Keane. Can you dig it?!

246 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:46:15pm

Wouldn't you know it. That airliner crash in Moscow today was captured by somebody's dashcam.

Don't watch if you don't want to see a plane crash.

247 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:46:32pm

re: #245 dragonath

Here's the sleaziest version ever, courtesy of "Shake" Keane. Can you dig it?!

[Embedded content]

he plays the major third instead of the blues third!

harrumpf

248 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:48:46pm

Same old GOP: word on street is that they're ready to cave on huge tax hikes on job creators in return for, well, nothing.

can we stop pretending that the gop represents any part of the american people other than the millionaires and multinational corporations?

249 BongCrodny  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:50:38pm

re: #227 jaunte

I followed Y R There Monkeys??? (@TakeThatDarwin) a while back on twitter.
It's almost too much derp, too often.

Question for Libs:If we evolved from apes-what's taking you guys so long? And tell me where the apes originally came from! chirp chirp chirp

I DIDN'T EVOLVE FROM NO BIRD!!!

250 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:55:29pm

re: #249 BongCrodny

251 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:56:14pm

re: #246 Gus

Wouldn't you know it. That airliner crash in Moscow today was captured by somebody's dashcam.

[Embedded content]

Don't watch if you don't want to see a plane crash.

Pilot and co-pilot perished along with two FAs. 4 survived. 757 Tu-204 was returning to Moscow with no passengers.

252 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:58:15pm

re: #249 BongCrodny

I DIDN'T EVOLVE FROM NO BIRD!!!

What about the platypus?

253 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:59:03pm

Y R There Monkeys?

some say god created man in his own image

some days i think god should sue for libel

254 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 4:59:54pm
255 BongCrodny  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:03:43pm

re: #250 jaunte

Y R There Monkeys???

I'm laughing, but it's a hollow, frightened laughter.

256 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:04:22pm

re: #250 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Dear God. WRT to Adam and Eve. On your next planet leave more clues other than fables written by nomads who thought the Earth was flat. That would be the omnipotent thing to do.

//

257 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:04:30pm
258 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:05:09pm

re: #256 Gus

Dear God. WRT to Adam and Eve. On your next planet leave more clues other than fables written by nomads who thought the Earth was flat. That would be the omnipotent thing to do.

//

Well, he could have left tomes, but they were probably burned for heat or heresy at some point.

259 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:05:23pm

re: #253 engineer cat

Y R There Monkeys?

some say god created man in his own image

some days i think god should sue for libel

Is there any doubt god was created in man's image?

260 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:06:32pm

re: #242 RadicalModerate

Given the fact that she didn't have a major problem with Anders Breivik's actions (going as far as citing "race mixing" ) and is publicly supportive of groups like the EDL and war criminals like Radovan Karadzic, I honestly don't think that discretion is in her vocabulary.

Very true. I wouldn't be at all surprised if one fine day, she pops off and openly calls for the wholesale massacre of Muslim Americans.

261 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:07:07pm

re: #255 BongCrodny

''You know what, evolution is a myth. Why aren't monkeys still evolving into humans?''
— Christine O'Donnell, GOP Senate Candidate, Fox and CNN Commentator, Notawitch.

262 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:07:31pm

re: #258 Holidays are Family Fun Time

Well, he could have left tomes, but they were probably burned for heat or heresy at some point.

I would have left 1000000000000s of gold plated indestructible iPads and several thousand talking rocks.

//

263 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:08:25pm

re: #251 Gus

Pilot and co-pilot perished along with two FAs. 4 survived. 757 was returning to Moscow with no passengers.

Tu-204, not a 757.

264 BongCrodny  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:08:29pm

re: #261 jaunte

''You know what, evolution is a myth. Why aren't monkeys still evolving into humans?''
— Christine O'Donnell, GOP Senate Candidate, Fox and CNN Commentator, Notawitch.

If O'Donnell ever makes it into the Senate, I'll lay odds that she asks for the Science Committee.

265 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:08:35pm

re: #262 Gus

I would have left 1000000000000s of gold plated indestructible iPads and several thousand talking rocks.

//

How do you know there are rocks that don't talk?

or gold plated iPads somewhere.

Afterall, there is a huge cavern in China with Terra Cotta soldiers, who'd a thunk that?

266 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:08:51pm

Even if god was his own man, we'd torture his image until he looked just like us.

267 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:09:16pm

re: #263 TedStriker

Tu-204, not a 757.

Oops. Right. I was looking at Airliners.net photos and forgot from this morning. Damn thing is a 757 copy.

268 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:09:37pm
269 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:10:15pm

re: #265 Holidays are Family Fun Time

How do you know there are rocks that don't talk?

or gold plated iPads somewhere.

Afterall, there is a huge cavern in China with Terra Cotta soldiers, who'd a thunk that?

Let's see god get those soldiers moving. And I don't mean like mechanical zombies.

270 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:10:51pm
271 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:11:18pm

re: #265 Holidays are Family Fun Time

How do you know there are rocks that don't talk?

or gold plated iPads somewhere.

Afterall, there is a huge cavern in China with Terra Cotta soldiers, who'd a thunk that?

Was. They took a bunch of the terracotta soldiers out. I saw them in San Francisco a few decades ago.

272 BongCrodny  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:11:31pm

re: #265 Holidays are Family Fun Time

How do you know there are rocks that don't talk?

Well, there's The Thing, for one. And Concrete, for another.

Oh wait a minute, never mind -- I'm mixing up real life with my comic books again.

Carry on.

273 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:11:39pm

re: #270 Holidays are Family Fun Time

I lied, this is the cutest.

"You want me to do what?"

274 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:11:49pm

re: #269 b_sharp

Let's see god get those soldiers moving. And I don't mean like mechanical zombies.

Anything. As long as I don't have to read anything from PZ Myers latest crusade. //

275 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:13:09pm

Someday, someone is going to find some really weird thing, throw a rock at it in frustration an the rock will start making sounds.

Then, they'll figure out there are records recorded in sounds with in the crystalline structure of the rock.

The problem, of course, will be that In Real Life, unlike Sci-FI TV shows, all sounds are not in Modern American English.

276 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:15:00pm

re: #256 Gus

Dear God. WRT to Adam and Eve. On your next planet leave more clues other than fables written by nomads who thought the Earth was flat. That would be the omnipotent thing to do.

//

also: better policing of your "followers" plz

277 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:15:27pm

The Atheist Society for Moral and Sexual Prudence™

//

278 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:16:11pm

running a close second for the cutest creature on earth.

279 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:17:10pm

re: #276 engineer cat

also: better policing of your "followers" plz

You mean the threat of eternal damnation in the fire pits of hell isn't enough of a behavior control policy?

280 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:20:45pm

Well, Brat Puppy went hunting yesterday. Brought home mud which he, upon entering the house, proceeded to take with him upstairs in a mad dash. The artful footprints he left on the sheets created immediate work for me in the form of laundry.

Thus, I left the less-immediate work of removing small non-irritating burrs from his coat until today. I still haven't gotten to them.

I should probably get to that.

281 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:25:35pm
282 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:34:41pm

Pammy is incoherent, as usual.

283 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:37:07pm

re: #268 Holidays are Family Fun Time

cutest

What a nutty search! :)

284 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:38:07pm

re: #282 Vicious Babushka

Pammy is incoherent, as usual.

[Embedded content]

Subway suspect blamed jihadists-said she'd been beating people up since 9/11/01. But Islamic supremacists blame freedom fighters, not jihad

Islamic supremacists = normal people who are not bigots but think Geller is one.

Freedom fighters = herself, the poison dwarf, Breivik, and so on.

285 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:40:26pm

re: #284 wrenchwench

Islamic supremacists = normal people who are not bigots but think Geller is one.

Freedom fighters = herself, the poison dwarf, Breivik, and so on.

Ever listen to a plastic rock tumbler polish rocks?

That's the sound Pam's brain makes.

286 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:42:26pm

Charles, when I used the quote button on wrenchwench's #284 it inserted an extraneous /blockquote

287 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:42:29pm

re: #285 b_sharp

Ever listen to a plastic rock tumbler polish rocks?

That's the sound Pam's brain makes.

Yes I have and I think you're right. She's polishing turds.

288 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:42:31pm

re: #282 Vicious Babushka

Pammy is incoherent, as usual.

[Embedded content]

Ah, I was wondering if she'd addressed it yet. She's doing the flipside of the arguments we saw earlier on this thread. She's blaming the terrorists for the crazy lady's actions just like some people were blaming her ad. The reality is the lady is probably just insane. It could have been a book, a movie, a cartoon or just the voices in her head. I don't think there's going to be a political angle here unless we want to talk about public mental health issues.
The tricky part is that New Yorkers are not going to tolerate crazy people acting up in the subways. It's going to cause some problems.

289 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:44:02pm

I have no idea what basketball game he infiltrated...

290 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:44:11pm

re: #286 b_sharp

Charles, when I used the quote button on wrenchwench's #284 it inserted an extraneous /blockquote

I did some fancy quoting of VB's post. Might have left something loose. (But I always Preview my comments to be sure it's going to show up right!)

291 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:45:09pm

I see Pam is also running with the very questionable article from Y-net about Hezbollah and Mexican drug cartels. I read it this morning and it didn't pass my sniff test.

292 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:46:25pm
293 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:47:04pm

Pam sez.....

First off, my ads are not up yet in the subways. They are not scheduled to go up until January 7, 2013.

294 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:51:20pm

re: #288 Killgore Trout

I don't think there's going to be a political angle here unless we want to talk about public mental health issues.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

295 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:51:26pm

re: #288 Killgore Trout

Ah, I was wondering if she'd addressed it yet. She's doing the flipside of the arguments we saw earlier on this thread. She's blaming the terrorists for the crazy lady's actions just like some people were blaming her ad. The reality is the lady is probably just insane. It could have been a book, a movie, a cartoon or just the voices in her head. I don't think there's going to be a political angle here unless we want to talk about public mental health issues.
The tricky part is that New Yorkers are not going to tolerate crazy people acting up in the subways. It's going to cause some problems.

The insidious thing about Geller's incitement is that she'll never be directly blamed. But it creates an atmosphere that crazy people are susceptible to. She may have had a bigger impact with her Park 51 campaign that the subway ads. Those things linger in people's mixed up minds.

296 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:53:11pm

Someone on LGF is making counter arguments for Pamela Geller.

297 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:54:17pm

Evening Lizards. Charles I have a question for you. Is there any problems with me having multiple windows open here at LGF?

IE. One for the main page section, one for the page section and one for Spy?

298 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:54:18pm

re: #296 Stanghazi

Someone on LGF is making counter arguments for Pamela Geller.

Where?

299 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:54:47pm

re: #297 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards. Charles I have a question for you. Is there any problems with me having multiple windows open here at LGF?

IE. One for the main page section, one for the page section and one for Spy?

I do it.
In Firefox

300 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:55:01pm

Whatever. Nothing surprises me anymore.

301 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:55:59pm

re: #300 Stanghazi

Whatever. Nothing surprises me anymore.

I'm actually a trained monkey and my posts are all random.

302 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:56:07pm

re: #297 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards. Charles I have a question for you. Is there any problems with me having multiple windows open here at LGF?

IE. One for the main page section, one for the page section and one for Spy?

Never been a problem in FF and Chrome.

303 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:56:52pm

ok, i am submitting my proposal for copy for pamz adz:

"not hating like you used to? having trouble figuring out who to blame for all your problems? don't despair! call us!"

304 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 5:59:40pm

re: #299 b_sharp

I do it.
In Firefox

Any Problems?

305 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:01:31pm

re: #233 Dr Lizardo

I think Pam is cheering this on, more or less discreetly, because she wants violence against Muslims to occur. As I posted upthread however, she needs to be mindful of what happened to Tom Metzger, founder of WAR (White Aryan Resistance) who was essentially bankrupted by the SPLC in a civil case pertaining to the beating death of an Ethiopian gent in Portland Oregon by some of Mr. Metzger's more devoted acolytes.

The XPLC could get her based on those billboards, though. Calling someone a 'savage' is bigoted and hateful, but in the eyes of the law it doesn't rise to the level of incitement or an attempt to violate that person's civil rights. Any lawsuit would fail on 1st Amendment grounds.

306 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:01:34pm

re: #302 Kronocide

Never been a problem in FF and Chrome.

Thanks. Running Safari 5.03.

307 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:01:57pm

re: #276 engineer cat

also: better policing of your "followers" plz

"And finally..."

308 bratwurst  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:02:26pm

Piers Morgan threatens self-deportation in the pages of Britain's worst newspaper that he himself has not been editor of!

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

309 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:03:23pm

re: #304 Bubblehead II

Any Problems?

Well, I do it in private when nobody else is in the house.

Oh, you mean multiple open windows. Silly me.

No problems. Most web browsers are designed for multiple open tabs/windows. Only problem is if something is eating up your RAM.

310 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:04:25pm

re: #296 Stanghazi

Someone on LGF is making counter arguments for Pamela Geller.

Actually, if Geller's ads aren't up right now then that does need to be known. Otherwise that fact would be deployed to make us look foolish. Killgore wasn't defending Shrieky, he was making sure we don't give her winged monkeys over at the Stalker Blog any poo to fling at us.

311 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:06:09pm

re: #308 bratwurst

Piers Morgan threatens self-deportation in the pages of Britain's worst newspaper that he himself has not been editor of!

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

My reply to Mr. Morgan:

312 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:06:52pm

re: #308 bratwurst

Piers Morgan threatens self-deportation in the pages of Britain's worst newspaper that he himself has not been editor of!

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

Shrewd. =)

313 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:07:26pm
314 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:08:43pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

Actually, if Geller's ads aren't up right now then that does need to be known. Otherwise that fact would be deployed to make us look foolish. Killgore wasn't defending Shrieky, he was making sure we don't give her winged monkeys over at the Stalker Blog any poo to fling at us.

Kind of. I don't really care what a lot of people have to say, it's going to be the usual finger pointing from the same old people and all the usual suspects regardless of the facts. However, if anyone cares to maintain credibility, it might be worth looking into whether the subway ads are up yet before blaming the ads (which may or may not be up) for motivating the crazy lady pushing a Hindu guy into a subway train.

315 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:09:06pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

Actually, if Geller's ads aren't up right now then that does need to be known. Otherwise that fact would be deployed to make us look foolish. Killgore wasn't defending Shrieky, he was making sure we don't give her winged monkeys over at the Stalker Blog any poo to fling at us.

According to this they were posted Dec. 17th; they're probably up right now.

Ms. Geller has been busy crafting new advertisements for her campaign beginning December 17. The new ads will be plastered across at least 50 different locations, the MTA confirmed, the result of an ad buy worth more than $10,000.
[Link: www.islamophobia-watch.com...]

316 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:11:18pm

What was Mona Eltahawy arrested for?

Is this a discussion if the ads were up this week? Last week? Last month?

317 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:11:59pm
Actually, if Geller's ads aren't up right now then that does need to be known. Otherwise that fact would be deployed to make us look foolish. Killgore wasn't defending Shrieky, he was making sure we don't give her winged monkeys over at the Stalker Blog any poo to fling at us.

Your concern over what strange cultists on another blog think of you is bizarre and unhealthy.

Furthermore, the ads are obviously up, as evidenced by the picture upthread. Perhaps they are not up in subway stations, as if subway stations are the only possible place a mentally unstable person might have been exposed to them. KT mentioning this is nothing more than his usual kabuki dance where any prevailing LGF opinion is wrong and petty and must be poo-pooed as the inconsequential foolishness it so clearly is.

318 allegro  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:12:51pm

re: #274 Gus

Anything. As long as I don't have to read anything from PZ Myers latest crusade. //

What's his latest crusade?

319 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:15:05pm

re: #318 allegro

What's his latest crusade?

You know. They whole we will only accept perfect atheists into our clique stuff. Even though he's used some pretty sexual language before. It's between him, Free Thoughts Blogs, Tunderfoot, and Skep Chic. They're all in a tizzy.

320 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:15:09pm

re: #309 b_sharp

Well, I do it in private when nobody else is in the house.

Oh, you mean multiple open windows. Silly me.

No problems. Most web browsers are designed for multiple open tabs/windows. Only problem is if something is eating up your RAM.

Thanks. Just added a 3rd monitor (4th possible) and was concerned if doing so would cause a conflict.

321 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:17:06pm

Summed up in the best way yet. Thanks RM.

KT mentioning this is nothing more than his usual kabuki dance where any prevailing LGF opinion is wrong and petty and must be poo-pooed as the inconsequential foolishness it so clearly is.

322 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:17:56pm

Dec. 13:

Controversial Group Plans More Ads in Subway Stations

The group behind a recent spate of inflammatory advertisements throughout the transit system said this week that it planned to make its biggest purchase yet: the space beside each of the roughly 220 clocks hanging in New York City’s subway stations.

The advertisements depict the twin towers, engulfed in flames, beside a quote attributed to the Koran: “Soon shall we cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers.”

The clocks are suspended from ceilings above subway platforms in stations across the city.
....
...the latest ad buy is unique. It is large enough that, compared with past campaigns, New Yorkers will be much more likely to see the displays.

323 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:18:49pm

Even a supreme idiot/loon like Glenn Greenwald isn't buying into scapegoating Pam and Spencer.

324 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:19:22pm

re: #285 b_sharp

Ever listen to a plastic rock tumbler polish rocks?

That's the sound Pam's brain makes.

Gotta have rocks in the tumbler first.

The cobwebs and tumbleweeds in Pamz' head are awfully lonely...

325 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:19:48pm

re: #323 Killgore Trout

Even a supreme idiot/loon like Glenn Greenwald isn't buying into scapegoating Pan and Spencer.

[Embedded content]

It's still a teaching moment.

326 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:20:01pm

re: #320 Bubblehead II

Thanks. Just added a 3rd monitor (4th possible) and was concerned if doing so would cause a conflict.

The number of monitors is controlled by the OS.

327 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:20:03pm

Everyone knows advertising doesn't work.

328 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:20:04pm

Why so, defensive? Sup with that.

329 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:20:10pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

... he was making sure we don't give her winged monkeys over at the Stalker Blog any poo to fling at us.

Uh... like we'd fucking care about those morons? You can't get any poo on you if you never go to the zoo.

330 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:20:55pm

re: #325 Gus

It's still a teaching moment.

Don't be dumber or crazier than Greenwald.
/lesson learned

331 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:21:37pm

Doesn't matter whether the crazy lady saw the Geller ads this week or never. Geller's incitement has been around since 2007, and intensified over the last two or three years. It's not directly responsible (probably), yet it is a very bad thing which may have contributed to the woman's decision to murder someone.

332 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:21:47pm

re: #327 jaunte

Everyone knows advertising doesn't work.

Jihad has been bastardized. It wasn't meant to be for 9/11. It doesn't mean what Al Qaeda or the Taliban tells you. It certainly doesn't mean what Pamela Geller tells you. She could have a poster up much like this and just remove the words Jihad and savages.

333 b_sharp  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:21:53pm

re: #323 Killgore Trout

Even a supreme idiot/loon like Glenn Greenwald isn't buying into scapegoating Pan and Spencer.

[Embedded content]

Scapegoating? That's not what is happening. Geller and Spencer have earned all of the blame they get stuck with.

334 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:21:54pm

re: #329 Kronocide

Uh... like we'd fucking care about those morons? You can't get any poo on you if you never go to the zoo.

The problem is that the whole Internet is the zoo, and sometimes the monkeys try to raid the reptile house.

335 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:21:59pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

Actually, if Geller's ads aren't up right now then that does need to be known. Otherwise that fact would be deployed to make us look foolish. Killgore wasn't defending Shrieky, he was making sure we don't give her winged monkeys over at the Stalker Blog any poo to fling at us.

If I recall correctly, she already bought a group of ads and they ran: she bought another run of ads and those would be the Jan 2013 batch.

Which means if I'm correct, she either forgot or she's a liar.

336 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:23:02pm

re: #335 Kronocide

If I recall correctly, she already bought a group of ads and they ran: she bought another run of ads and those would be the Jan 2013 batch.

Which means if I'm correct, she either forgot or she's a liar.

I'll go with option B.

337 jaunte  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:23:41pm

re: #332 Gus

Sure, the jihad she's talking about in the ad is a bastardized version, but it's the one that's been popularized by Spencer and Geller, et al.

338 allegro  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:23:55pm

re: #319 Gus

You know. They whole we will only accept perfect atheists into our clique stuff. Even though he's used some pretty sexual language before. It's between him, Free Thoughts Blogs, Tunderfoot, and Skep Chic. They're all in a tizzy.

Oh, you mean the support of feminism and the atheist+ thing? Yeah, it's a tizzy. Amazing how many have such an aggressive objection to the inclusion of women and social issues in the skepticism movement.

339 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:24:15pm

There was some reasonable speculation upthread that Geller and Spencer hope thier rhetoric results in violence. I also see some reasonable cause that their critics hope for the same result. Sorry folks, in this case it doesn't look likely.

340 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:25:51pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

There was some reasonable speculation upthread that Geller and Spencer hope thier rhetoric results in violence. I also see some reasonable cause that their critics hope for the same result. Sorry folks, in this case it doesn't look likely.

I call bullshit on that part.

341 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:26:05pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

There was some reasonable speculation upthread that Geller and Spencer hope thier rhetoric results in violence. I also see some reasonable cause that their critics hope for the same result. Sorry folks, in this case it doesn't look likely.

Hmm.

342 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:26:38pm

re: #336 TedStriker

I'll go with option B.

Ditto.

343 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:26:59pm

re: #333 b_sharp

Scapegoating? That's not what is happening. Geller and Spencer have earned all of the blame they get stuck with.

As I said before B. Defense of Geller has spoken again on LGF.

344 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:28:56pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

Killgore, would you please let the Magical Balance Fairy have the night off? It's Saturday night and she'd rather go dancing than be forced to support your posts.

345 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:28:58pm

re: #340 wrenchwench

I call bullshit on that part.

Jesus, all that's missing is "lefties"

346 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:29:00pm

re: #339 Killgore Trout

There was some reasonable speculation upthread that Geller and Spencer hope thier rhetoric results in violence. I also see some reasonable cause that their critics hope for the same result. Sorry folks, in this case it doesn't look likely.

I'm not seeing what you're seeing KT. Looking at my timeline I haven't seen them mentioned for hours now -- and you know who I follow. All quiet for the most part. No one wants to prosecute either of them. Nobody wants to arrest them.

347 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:29:35pm

re: #343 Stanghazi

As I said before B. Defense of Geller has spoken again on LGF.

Be it noted that I am not part of any such defense.

348 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:30:12pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

I know that dude!

349 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:32:36pm

1. Bigoted inherent anti-Muslim ad campaign in NYC subways.
2. Crazy person who hates Muslims throws Hindu onto subway tracks, to his death.
3. Man slaughtered because the perp thought he was Muslim. Chopped up like a cold cut by the subway train. For being Muslim whilst Hindu...

Let me see if Pam Geller or Robert Spencer need help.

350 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:33:36pm

re: #348 Stanghazi

I know that dude!

It never hurts to be clear.

351 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:34:17pm

re: #349 Gus

1. Bigoted inherent anti-Muslim ad campaign in NYC subways.
2. Crazy person who hates Muslims throws Hindu onto subway tracks, to his death.
3. Man slaughtered because the perp thought he was Muslim. Chopped up like a cold cut by the subway train. For being Muslim whilst Hindu...

Let me see if Pam Geller or Robert Spencer need help.

Guns don't kill people, lies kill people!

352 Gus  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 6:35:23pm

re: #351 Dark_Falcon

Guns don't kill people, lies kill people!

I'm wondering if he didn't hit the hubbly bubbly. :D

353 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 7:20:06pm

re: #326 b_sharp

The number of monitors is controlled by the OS.

Correct. Was worried about having multiple windows here on LGF causing a problem.

354 Bubblehead II  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 7:24:45pm

re: #323 Killgore Trout

Even a supreme idiot/loon like Glenn Greenwald isn't buying into scapegoating Pam and Spencer.

[Embedded content]

The Harpy and the Gnome are BIGOTS and HATE MONGERS.

Are you defending them?

355 lostlakehiker  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 8:04:44pm

re: #146 Killgore Trout

Woman charged with murder as hate crime after shoving man in front of subway

.

Mental health issues are just a diversion. We need to ban subways.

356 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 8:08:47pm

re: #319 Gus

You know. They whole we will only accept perfect atheists into our clique stuff. Even though he's used some pretty sexual language before. It's between him, Free Thoughts Blogs, Tunderfoot, and Skep Chic. They're all in a tizzy.

I gave up reading Myers ages ago. I get tired of hearing the same tune over and over again, even if I agree with most of what he says.

357 MartiansAteMyCat  Sat, Dec 29, 2012 8:44:00pm

Michael Medved is the reason I am no longer a conservative. I'm not joking.

358 funky chicken  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:45:11am

Liberals display a naive faith in a higher power? Liberals?


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

TwitterFacebook

Turn off all ads for a full year by subscribing!
For about 33 cents a day (per month) or 22 cents a day (per year), our subscription option turns off all advertisements at LGF!
Read more...

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Articles

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Pages

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form
LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
Randall Gross
Putin Decrements Our Peace Dividend: U.S. Ground Troops Being Deployed To Poland
If you were looking to the wind down of the Afghan war as creating a potential peace dividend, that's now unlikely due to Putin's nationalistic moves on the Ukraine. Poland and the United States will announce next week the deployment of U.S. ground forces to Poland as part of an expansion of NATO presence in Central and Eastern Europe in response to events in ...

1 hour, 10 minutes ago
Views: 56 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
palmerskiss
Denmark Shows the World How to Stop Mass Medicating Animals
COPENHAGAN, Denmark -- Michael Nielsen unlocks the door to his pig factory. He doffs his jacket, pants and muddy boots and zips on white coveralls. Then he steps into the maze-like complex housing several thousand pigs. From the birthing room -- where one enormous sow has just delivered 22 squirming piglets -- to the insemination stalls where the next generation is in the ...

12 hours, 21 minutes ago
Views: 84 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
MichaelJ
Live now - 2014 Rip Curl Pro Bells Beach - ASP World Tour
More: 2014 Rip Curl Pro Bells Beach - ASP Iconic Bells Beach in Victoria, Australia once again hosts the world's best surfers for the 41st running of the Bells Beach Contest. New feature in this broadcast: drone cam!

15 hours, 5 minutes ago
Views: 123 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 3 • Rating: 0
cycroft
Russ Campbell’s Blog: Fiscal Conservatism Seems Alive and Well in Ottawa: 8,900 Public Service Jobs to Be Cut
When Con­ser­v­a­tives un­der Stephen Harper took of­fice in 2006, I was dis­ap­pointed at how much they re­sem­bled their pre­de­ces­sors when it came to their pen­chant for in­creas­ing the size of gov­ern­ment. More: Russ Campbell's Blog: Fiscal Conservatism Seems Alive and Well in Ottawa: 8,900 Public Service Jobs to Be Cut

18 hours, 51 minutes ago
Views: 94 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Skip Intro
Why the Temperature of the Yellow Sea Is a Big Deal, and Other Questions About the South Korean Ferry Disaster
The boat ran into trouble several dozen miles from Jindo, an island that sticks out of South Korea's southwestern corner like a little toe. Jindo is surrounded by a group of even smaller islands that are slightly farther afield from the mainland. The ferry was curving around those small islands at the time it issued a distress call. What caused the disaster? We ...

19 hours, 59 minutes ago
Views: 271 • Comments: 3
Tweets: 24 • Rating: 0
FemNaziBitch
Bystander Effect, or Why This Week Has Been Really Scary
And if you have a friend or loved one who's survived an assault, here's a short list of things you should and shouldn't do to help out. Because if I've learned anything over the past few days, it's that watching someone you care for go through something like this can make you feel unbelievably helpless. But, in spite of that feeling, there are ...

23 hours, 39 minutes ago
Views: 196 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 0
Idle Drifter
Calgary stabbings: How knife crime in Canada can cause ‘moral panic’
What Calgary police chief Rick Hanson called the "worst mass murder" in the city's history didn't end at the barrel of a gun. Instead, the 22-year-old suspect identified on Tuesday as Matthew de Grood is accused of entering the kitchen at a house party, taking "a large knife" and using it to fatally stab four men and one woman, all of whom were students ...

2 days, 6 hours ago
Views: 202 • Comments: 4
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
aagcobb
New York Electoral College: State Joins National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
Ben Mathis-Lilley, Slate: New York Electoral College: State Joins National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Instead of pushing for a Constitutional amendment, which would have to be ratified in 38 states, advocates ask individual state legislatures to pass an agreement: that they'll pledge all their presidential electors to the winner of the national popular vote as soon as enough other states pass the law to ...

2 days, 13 hours ago
Views: 214 • Comments: 7
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Political Atheist
The Insane History of Rockets at Jet Propulsion Laboratories
The Rocket Boys In the late 1930s, a group of Caltech graduate students were booted off campus after blowing up (part of!) their building during a rocket test gone awry. Unwilling to give up on the joy of semi-controlled explosions, the students and a few of their friends headed into the San Gabriel Mountains. They picked a deserted gully -- Arroyo Seco -- ...

3 days, 9 hours ago
Views: 241 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
iossarian
Drug Companies Want Your Money
Two thematically-related stories on the BBC at the moment: UK drug company Glaxo 'paid bribes to Polish doctors' UK drug company GlaxoSmithKline is facing a criminal investigation in Poland for allegedly bribing doctors, BBC Panorama has discovered. Tamiflu: Millions wasted on flu drug, claims major report Hundreds of millions of pounds may have been wasted on a drug for flu that works no better ...

3 days, 16 hours ago
Views: 261 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 8 • Rating: 0
 Frank says:

I think you should leave it up to the parent, because not all parents want to keep their children totally ignorant. -- Frank Zappa in response to a question from Senator Hollings.