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79 comments

1 Political Atheist  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 10:52:27am

Obama is right-Bottom line is for Congress to produce a bill that does the job. All else is chin music at this point.

2 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 10:54:52am

Latest word is that the negotiations are stalled.

Republicans are demonstrating once again that they hate this President far more than they love our country.

3 jaunte  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 10:57:00am
4 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:03:56am

Well if my one friend is any indication (very light political follower) the blame consensus is clearly on the GOP.

5 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:04:09am

What a radical agenda that man has! The nerve!!

6 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:07:22am

GOP heads be poppin.

7 Political Atheist  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:07:49am

This gun owner is comfortable with President Obamas statements on gun regulation moving forward. But there is an empty chair at the meeting... The NRA chair.

Well fine lets leave them out of the discussion. Out of the negotiations. About 95% of gun owners agree they are not represented by the NRA. I am certain that is a number of people that can well represent the right balance of regulations, enforcement and important rights involved in gun rights advocacy.

8 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:15:00am

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Latest word is that the negotiations are stalled.

Republicans are demonstrating once again that they hate this President far more than they love our country.

They seem to think that the two are linked: the degree to which one hates the President expresses one's love of country.

9 Gus  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:19:32am
11 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:23:08am

re: #10 rwdflynavy

We Demand Obama Issue Executive Order Making White House, Federal Buildings and Events Gun Free Zones

(Giggles)

Read this one. Not really thought out, just another whine.

The logical extension of this is to call for Obama to declare all of the USA a gun-free zone and confiscate all privately-owned weapons...

12 Gus  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:26:08am

re: #10 rwdflynavy

We Demand Obama Issue Executive Order Making White House, Federal Buildings and Events Gun Free Zones

(Giggles)

As someone mentioned yesterday, they already are gun free zones. Gun free zones doesn't mean no law enforcement, guards, etc. But no, any Joe Schmo can't bring a gun into the Pentagon.

13 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:29:05am
14 rwdflynavy  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:31:51am

re: #12 Gus

As someone mentioned yesterday, they already are gun free zones. Gun free zones doesn't mean no law enforcement, guards, etc. But no, any Joe Schmo can't bring a gun into the Pentagon.

I'm OK with gun-free zones when there are trained guards to provide for my protection. Not so keen on gun-free zones like schools and universities.

15 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:33:00am

Republican strateegery: determine the correct course of action, then do the opposite, out of spite. It's very French of them.

16 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:33:52am

re: #13 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Yeah, let me put my surprised face on. The GOP is going to drag this out as long as possible, refusing to allow taxes on the rich to go up until enough economic damage is done that the rich tell them "Just cut a deal!"

17 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:36:58am
18 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:37:54am

re: #17 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

33 attempts to overturn Obamacare.

19 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:38:36am
20 Targetpractice  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:40:03am

re: #19 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

Not just no, but HELL NO. There will be no hostage negotiations anymore.

21 Tigger2  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:41:54am

re: #19 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

The United States does not negotiate with ( economic ) Terrorist. //

22 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:44:44am

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Latest word is that the negotiations are stalled.

Republicans are demonstrating once again that they hate this President far more than they love our country.

I swear it's going to be a repeat of the debt ceiling fiasco where the Republicans will finally at the very last minute capitulate to some kind of deal to keep us from the cliff and then immediately trumpet their "huge victory over Obama."

On the other hand, I'd love to see how much more the GOP would be disliked if we actually went over the edge.

23 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:46:17am

re: #17 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

Fiscal responsibility!

24 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:48:59am

re: #22 dragonfire1981

I swear it's going to be a repeat of the debt ceiling fiasco where the Republicans will finally at the very last minute capitulate to some kind of deal to keep us from the cliff and then immediately trumpet their "huge victory over Obama."

On the other hand, I'd love to see how much more the GOP would be disliked if we actually went over the edge.

I'm not so sure Republicans have the ability to make a deal this time. Beohner has limited control. Also remember that debt ceiling negotiations are coming up again soon. I don't have a good feeling about our ability to save ourselves this time around.

25 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:49:01am

You know what's crazy?

I could give a box of cookies to a group of 6 year olds and tell them to agree on a way of distributing them amongst themselves.

Guaranteed, in less than 15 minutes we'd have a solution and a group of well fed 6 year olds.

Why is this so difficult?

26 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:50:17am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

I'm not so sure Republicans have the ability to make a deal this time. Beohner has limited control. Also remember that debt ceiling negotiations are coming up again soon. I don't have a good feeling about our ability to save ourselves this time around.

If it comes down to it I really hope the general populace doesn't buy into the GOP attempts to lay blame for the whole mess solely at Obama's feet.

27 rwdflynavy  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:50:18am
28 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:51:16am

re: #14 rwdflynavy

I'm OK with gun-free zones when there are trained guards to provide for my protection. Not so keen on gun-free zones like schools and universities.

So, the U.S. needs a police state in order to be free of violence? Have I got that right?

29 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:51:19am

re: #27 rwdflynavy

Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016

Looks like Varek's been busy...

DARTH OBAMA!

30 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:51:37am

re: #25 dragonfire1981

You know what's crazy?

I could give a box of cookies to a group of 6 year olds and tell them to agree on a way of distributing them amongst themselves.

Guaranteed, in less than 15 minutes we'd have a solution and a group of well fed 6 year olds.

Why is this so difficult?

It's insane. It also frustrates me that with something this important is left to the absolute last minute. This should have been resolved months ago. They see it as a game and I don't think it's being taken seriously.

31 Lidane  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:52:26am

re: #14 rwdflynavy

I'm OK with gun-free zones when there are trained guards to provide for my protection. Not so keen on gun-free zones like schools and universities.

Because Virginia Tech didn't have its own police force and SWAT team.

And Columbine didn't have armed security guards on campus.

32 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:52:52am

re: #26 dragonfire1981

If it comes down to it I really hope the general populace doesn't buy into the GOP attempts to lay blame for the whole mess solely at Obama's feet.

I think that comes down to what we learn about the negotiations if after the deal falls apart.

33 Tigger2  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:54:31am

re: #31 Lidane

Because Virginia Tech didn't have its own police force and SWAT team.

And Columbine didn't have armed security guards on campus.

Yeah lets put another gun in the school that the attacker could get his hands on. I wonder how many of those lets arm the teachers and put guards in schools have thought of that.

34 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:54:56am

re: #25 dragonfire1981

You know what's crazy?

I could give a box of cookies to a group of 6 year olds and tell them to agree on a way of distributing them amongst themselves.

Guaranteed, in less than 15 minutes we'd have a solution and a group of well fed 6 year olds.

Why is this so difficult?

Because six year olds never worry about The Truth™. The GOP wants The Truth™ carried through to its logical conclusion and if any one gets in the way, fuck 'em. Enemies of The Truth™ are undeserving of mercy.

The TPGOP reminds me more and more of the Bolsheviks every day.

35 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:56:46am
36 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:57:06am

#Obamadamus lol!

37 rwdflynavy  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:57:15am

re: #28 Romantic Heretic

So, the U.S. needs a police state in order to be free of violence? Have I got that right?

No, but in public venues, if you are going to remove my right to defend myself, you need to provide proper security.

38 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:58:33am

re: #34 Romantic Heretic

Because six year olds never worry about The Truth™. The GOP wants The Truth™ carried through to its logical conclusion and if any one gets in the way, fuck 'em. Enemies of The Truth™ are undeserving of mercy.

The TPGOP reminds me more and more of the Bolsheviks every day.

That pretty much sums it up for me. The TPGOP (especially the TP part of it) is very much in the mold of the Bolsheviks. Ruthless extremists who'll burn down the world to get their way.

39 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 11:59:31am

re: #37 rwdflynavy

No, but in public venues, if you are going to remove my right to defend myself, you need to provide proper security.

The right to defend oneself outside the home is already problematic: if you are using a gun in your own home, there are not likely to be masses of bystanders who might get caught in the crossfire and/or become victims of an error in your judgement or weapon-handling technique.

40 Lidane  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:02:23pm

re: #37 rwdflynavy

No, but in public venues, if you are going to remove my right to defend myself, you need to provide proper security.

Do Armed Civilians Stop Mass Shooters? Actually, No.

41 Randall Gross  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:03:32pm

I got an email from employer that said in effect:

"We don't know WTF congress will set 2013 taxes, SS, and Medicare at so we are setting them at the over the cliff rate until we get told."

The people implying that this is artificial and won't have much effect don't know what they are talking about. First paychecks in 2013 will be less across America if things don't get agreed to.

42 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:04:16pm

re: #25 dragonfire1981

You know what's crazy?

I could give a box of cookies to a group of 6 year olds and tell them to agree on a way of distributing them amongst themselves.

Guaranteed, in less than 15 minutes we'd have a solution and a group of well fed 6 year olds.

Why is this so difficult?

Now imagine that a few of the six year olds have been told by their parents that they are grounded forever if they share anything at all with the other kids, and that the other kids are the most evil, vicious creatures ever to exist.

43 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:04:21pm

re: #31 Lidane

Because Virginia Tech didn't have its own police force and SWAT team.

And Columbine didn't have armed security guards on campus.

I've had a gun nut make a case that Columbine actually did have an armed guard on campus be he was encumbered by some 'hold and wait for SWAT' policy that is now a 'meet and engage' policy.

44 Lidane  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:06:24pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

It's insane. It also frustrates me that with something this important is left to the absolute last minute. This should have been resolved months ago. They see it as a game and I don't think it's being taken seriously.

Months ago was during a Presidential election and the GOP sure as shit weren't going to negotiate with the same man they wanted to lose. They publicly said their goal was to make him a one-termer and to shut him down entirely.

Are you really surprised they're still playing games?

45 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:06:41pm

re: #37 rwdflynavy

No, but in public venues, if you are going to remove my right to defend myself, you need to provide proper security.

Guns do not give rights.

The 'right to defend yourself' has nothing to do with whether or not you get to have a gun. Guns are not magic fetishes that grant superpowers, rights, or life. They're just dangerous objects which almost nobody is trained sufficiently in to have the power to kill people in everyday life. Carrying a gun doesn't magically endow you with a 'right to defend yourself'. It just makes you more of a danger to yourself and others.

Get over this delusional fantasy of ordinary citizens engaging in gun battles.

46 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:06:52pm

Boehner Speaks!!


“Americans elected President Obama to lead, not cast blame. The president’s comments today are ironic, as a recurring theme of our negotiations was his unwillingness to agree to anything that would require him to stand up to his own party. Needed cuts and reforms that the president agreed to just last year were no longer on the table, as he cited an inability to sell them to Democrats.
“In an effort to get the president to agree to cut spending - which is the problem - I put revenues on the table last year, and I put them on the table again last month. Republicans made every effort to reach the ‘balanced’ deficit agreement that the president promised the American people, while the president has continued to insist on a package skewed dramatically in favor of higher taxes that would destroy jobs. We’ve been reasonable and responsible. The president is the one who has never been able to get to ‘yes.’

“The House has passed legislation to avert the entire fiscal cliff, and the president has never called for the Senate to act on those bills in any way. He instead has simply allowed the Democratic-controlled Senate to sit on them and lead our economy to the edge of the fiscal cliff. I am pleased Senators from both parties are currently working to find a bipartisan solution that can finally pass that chamber. That is the type of leadership America needs, not what they saw from the president this morning.”

47 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:06:53pm

Is anyone else getting malware warnings on Twitter?

48 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:07:36pm

re: #47 Vicious Babushka

Is anyone else getting malware warnings on Twitter?

I just did!

49 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:08:34pm

re: #43 Kronocide

I've had a gun nut make a case that Columbine actually did have an armed guard on campus be he was encumbered by some 'hold and wait for SWAT' policy that is now a 'meet and engage' policy.

Not a few seconds after I post this I see this:

The N.R.A. Crawls From Its Hidey Hole

In the 62 mass-murder cases over 30 years examined recently by the magazine Mother Jones, not one was stopped by an armed civilian. We have known for many years that a sheriff’s deputy was at Columbine High School in 1999 and fired at one of the two killers while 11 of their 13 victims were still alive. He missed four times.

50 dragonfire1981  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:09:14pm

re: #46 austin_blue

Boehner Speaks!!

“Americans elected President Obama to lead, not cast blame. The president’s comments today are ironic, as a recurring theme of our negotiations was his unwillingness to agree to anything that would require him to stand up to his own party. Needed cuts and reforms that the president agreed to just last year were no longer on the table, as he cited an inability to sell them to Democrats.
“In an effort to get the president to agree to cut spending - which is the problem - I put revenues on the table last year, and I put them on the table again last month. Republicans made every effort to reach the ‘balanced’ deficit agreement that the president promised the American people, while the president has continued to insist on a package skewed dramatically in favor of higher taxes that would destroy jobs. We’ve been reasonable and responsible. The president is the one who has never been able to get to ‘yes.’

“The House has passed legislation to avert the entire fiscal cliff, and the president has never called for the Senate to act on those bills in any way. He instead has simply allowed the Democratic-controlled Senate to sit on them and lead our economy to the edge of the fiscal cliff. I am pleased Senators from both parties are currently working to find a bipartisan solution that can finally pass that chamber. That is the type of leadership America needs, not what they saw from the president this morning.”

Ugh, what a load of bunk.

51 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:09:40pm

Republicans Holding Out For Worst Possible Deal

concerned ordinary americans might be helped

52 Gus  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:11:58pm

re: #47 Vicious Babushka

Is anyone else getting malware warnings on Twitter?

re: #48 Stanghazi

I just did!

What AV are you using?

53 rwdflynavy  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:12:15pm

re: #40 Lidane

Do Armed Civilians Stop Mass Shooters? Actually, No.

re: #45 Renaissance_Man

Guns do not give rights.

The 'right to defend yourself' has nothing to do with whether or not you get to have a gun. Guns are not magic fetishes that grant superpowers, rights, or life. They're just dangerous objects which almost nobody is trained sufficiently in to have the power to kill people in everyday life. Carrying a gun doesn't magically endow you with a 'right to defend yourself'. It just makes you more of a danger to yourself and others.

Get over this delusional fantasy of ordinary citizens engaging in gun battles.

The delusional fantasy is that somehow you are going to remove several hundred million firearms from this country.

When I carry a handgun I am not more of a danger to myself and others. I am properly trained in its use.

54 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:12:21pm

re: #52 Gus

re: #48 Stanghazi

What AV are you using?

McAfee.

55 Lidane  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:12:56pm

re: #45 Renaissance_Man

Carrying a gun doesn't magically endow you with a 'right to defend yourself'. It just makes you more of a danger to yourself and others.

I have cousins that are cops. They hate it when someone pulls their own gun out during a situation. At that point, they have to divide their attention between the gunman and the would-be hero and work that much harder to diffuse tensions.

56 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:13:20pm

re: #47 Vicious Babushka

Is anyone else getting malware warnings on Twitter?

All of Twitter is malware from my POV.

57 Lidane  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:13:39pm

re: #53 rwdflynavy

The delusional fantasy is that somehow you are going to remove several hundred million firearms from this country.

No, the delusion is you thinking anyone has suggested that in the first fucking place.

58 Gus  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:14:05pm

re: #54 Vicious Babushka

McAfee.

Curious to see if Stanley Sea is using the same.

59 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:14:16pm

re: #52 Gus

re: #48 Stanghazi

What AV are you using?

Microsoft Security Essentials. All looks cool with that.

It's Chrome I think?

60 ReamWorks SKG  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:14:23pm

re: #25 dragonfire1981

You know what's crazy?

I could give a box of cookies to a group of 6 year olds and tell them to agree on a way of distributing them amongst themselves.

While this works in very small scales (one kid divides the remaining pie into two portions, the other kid picks which slice), I don't think it would work in a large group. The weakest kid would get nothing.

BTW: Mathematicians have studied this problem in detail--it's called "Fair Division"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

According to Sol Garfunkel, the cake-cutting problem had been one of the most important open problems in 20th century mathematics,[11] when the most important variant of the problem was finally solved with the Brams-Taylor procedure by Steven Brams and Alan Taylor in 1995

61 allegro  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:14:38pm

re: #53 rwdflynavy

When I carry a handgun I am not more of a danger to myself and others. I am properly trained in its use.

So was Adam Lanza.

62 Tigger2  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:15:07pm

re: #53 rwdflynavy

re: #45 Renaissance_Man

The delusional fantasy is that somehow you are going to remove several hundred million firearms from this country.

When I carry a handgun I am not more of a danger to myself and others. I am properly trained in its use.

Who the hell is talking about removing several hundred million weapons from the country.

63 Gus  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:15:23pm

re: #59 Stanghazi

Microsoft Security Essentials. All looks cool with that.

It's Chrome I think?

Don't know. Not getting any warnings here and I just updated Kaspersky.

64 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:16:57pm

re: #45 Renaissance_Man

Guns do not give rights.

The 'right to defend yourself' has nothing to do with whether or not you get to have a gun. Guns are not magic fetishes that grant superpowers, rights, or life. They're just dangerous objects which almost nobody is trained sufficiently in to have the power to kill people in everyday life. Carrying a gun doesn't magically endow you with a 'right to defend yourself'. It just makes you more of a danger to yourself and others.

Get over this delusional fantasy of ordinary citizens engaging in gun battles.

To defend yourself in your home with a gun, you need a degree of proficiency and training with the weapon.

To be able to defend yourself or others in a crowded public place, you need training, proficiency, experience, steady nerves and sound judgement.

These things are not part of the standard package you suddenly acquire when you purchase a weapons permit or a concealed carry license.

65 Lidane  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:17:02pm

re: #53 rwdflynavy

When I carry a handgun I am not more of a danger to myself and others.

Actually, yes. You are. Cops and law enforcement hate it when civilians draw their own weapons during a situation. It only adds to the confusion and makes their jobs harder.

Also, a civilian gun owner might be trained, but they're not always equipped to fully take in what's going on. A gun owner damn near shot and killed an innocent person during the Giffords assassination attempt. What then?

I am properly trained in its use.

So what? Even cops and law enforcement make mistakes. Being trained doesn't mean you know how to handle every situation or something stressful when you're in the middle of it.

66 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:18:25pm

What is with the American love affair with paranoia?

67 ReamWorks SKG  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:19:24pm

re: #65 Lidane

Agreed. I don't want people trying to stop crimes that they see just because they have a gun. They should only be used to protect yourself, and yourself only. That means if someone is coming at _you_ with a weapon, or an intruder breaks into your home and confronts you. If a person with a gun sees someone being mugged on the street, he should run the other way and call the police.

68 rwdflynavy  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:19:52pm

re: #67 ReamWorks SKG

Agreed. I don't want people trying to stop crimes that they see just because they have a gun. They should only be used to protect yourself, and yourself only. That means if someone is coming at _you_ with a weapon, or an intruder breaks into your home and confronts you.

Myself and my family.

69 rwdflynavy  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:21:14pm

re: #65 Lidane

Actually, yes. You are. Cops and law enforcement hate it when civilians draw their own weapons during a situation. It only adds to the confusion and makes their jobs harder.

Also, a civilian gun owner might be trained, but they're not always equipped to fully take in what's going on. A gun owner damn near shot and killed an innocent person during the Giffords assassination attempt. What then?

So what? Even cops and law enforcement make mistakes. Being trained doesn't mean you know how to handle every situation or something stressful when you're in the middle of it.

I carry for defending myself and my family. I'm not interested in being a hero and will not draw if the cops are already on the scene.

70 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:21:48pm

There are no gun-free zones, there are only zones in which carrying a weapon is strictly limited to authorized persons. The opposite end of the 'permissiblity' spectrum means that all locations are 'felon-carrying free'. There are fewer people carrying guns around Ft Sill or Ft Hood than in any city that size in the country.

71 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:21:51pm

GOP Submits Offer Only Keeping Tax Breaks For 'Job Creators' Making Over A Million

calls for fewer 'job consumers': "make your own job or self deport"

72 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:25:01pm

re: #53 rwdflynavy

re: #45 Renaissance_Man

When I carry a handgun I am not more of a danger to myself and others. I am properly trained in its use.

So was Nancy Lanza.

Your delusion makes you less safe. And everyone around. I don't know you from Adam, but I promise you you are not sufficiently trained to have the power of life or death in a crisis situation that might arise in everyday use. That's not my opinion, that's the demonstrable fact from both research and the opinion of the police. And it stems from the ridiculous belief that guns are somehow tied to the right to self-defence.

re: #62 Tigger2

Who the hell is talking about removing several hundred million weapons from the country.

It'd be lovely if it were to happen, but that's not realistic. However, it starts with not continuing to empower this delusion that guns have a place in everyday civilian hands.

73 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:26:27pm

re: #53 rwdflynavy

re: #45 Renaissance_Man

The delusional fantasy is that somehow you are going to remove several hundred million firearms from this country.

When I carry a handgun I am not more of a danger to myself and others. I am properly trained in its use.

yah well the problem with that statement is that that is what all the crazy people say too

74 Lidane  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:27:29pm

re: #69 rwdflynavy

I carry for defending myself and my family. I'm not interested in being a hero and will not draw if the cops are already on the scene.

You are not every gun owner. There are plenty of idiots who absolutely will draw their own guns and try to play the hero whether or not cops are on the scene. That's the point.

No one is going to ban guns in this country. That's a right wing delusion that needs to die. But let's not bullshit ourselves and pretend that everyone who owns a gun -- even legally -- is truly equipped to use the damned thing no matter how much time they spend on the range.

75 Ming  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:29:31pm

re: #22 dragonfire1981

I'd love to see how much more the GOP would be disliked if we actually went over the edge.

Not to jump on the above comment in particular, but I have a somewhat different view about the "fiscal cliff". Of course, it would be ideal if Congress were able to work with the President and produce a good deal. But, to paraphrase what Donald Rumsfeld once gracelessly said about the U.S. military, this is "the Congress that we have".

Given the current Congress, I see the fiscal cliff as the one and only chance at meaningful deficit reduction. The one and only chance for the next two years at least. I believe we're actually very, very lucky to have this one chance. The fiscal cliff is the one and only serious deficit reduction that Congress cannot block.

Of course, I sympathize with those who would lose unemployment benefits. And I won't be happy to pay more in Social Security taxes. But I am confident that the Federal Reserve will do whatever it takes to stimulate the economy. The Bush tax cuts would finally, mercifully be history. And I'm excited about America finally being on a better fiscal foundation.

I know it's not ideal, but I really think the "fiscal cliff", which was "the deal" in Summer 2011, may turn out to be a very good thing for the country. And if he lets it happen, President Obama will have presided over a significant improvement in the nation's financial balance, which is a fine legacy to have. Ideal? No. Lucky to have the option? I think so.

76 stabby  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:31:50pm

re: #25 dragonfire1981

You know what's crazy?

I could give a box of cookies to a group of 6 year olds and tell them to agree on a way of distributing them amongst themselves.

Guaranteed, in less than 15 minutes we'd have a solution and a group of well fed 6 year olds.

Why is this so difficult?

Because 6 year olds aren't paid by the Koch brothers, threatened by Grover Norquest and voted for by Glen Beck fans to keep cookies from being distributed evenly!

77 Decatur Deb  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 12:34:17pm

re: #75 Ming

Nothing like a near-death experience to clear the mind.

78 austin_blue  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 1:32:51pm

re: #53 rwdflynavy

re: #45 Renaissance_Man

The delusional fantasy is that somehow you are going to remove several hundred million firearms from this country.

When I carry a handgun I am not more of a danger to myself and others. I am properly trained in its use.

Do you need sixteen rounds plus one in the pipe?

79 steve_davis  Sun, Dec 30, 2012 7:04:49pm

re: #25 dragonfire1981

You know what's crazy?

I could give a box of cookies to a group of 6 year olds and tell them to agree on a way of distributing them amongst themselves.

Guaranteed, in less than 15 minutes we'd have a solution and a group of well fed 6 year olds.

Why is this so difficult?

1. They're not six years old; 2. We feed them too well already. If we did like the old British judges did 200 years ago, we'd lock them in a room without food until they came up with a solution.


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LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
FemNaziBitch
Bystander Effect, or Why This Week Has Been Really Scary
And if you have a friend or loved one who's survived an assault, here's a short list of things you should and shouldn't do to help out. Because if I've learned anything over the past few days, it's that watching someone you care for go through something like this can make you feel unbelievably helpless. But, in spite of that feeling, there are ...

40 minutes ago
Views: 65 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 0
Randall Gross
Healing Is the Message at Interfaith Service for Victims of Sunday’s Shootings
Clergy of different faiths, joined by U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, delivered messages of hope and unity Thursday before more than 1,300 people gathered at the Jewish Community Center in Overland Park. "A pall has been cast over our great nation," Holder said. "We gather today not in joy, but in solemn reflection." The overall message, however, was focused on the power of ...

3 hours, 27 minutes ago
Views: 54 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
palmerskiss
More Than Half the Women in These Countries Are Married by the Time They Turn 18
The report is as sad as it is horrifying. A child bride forced into marriage in Nigeria has been accused of killing her much older groom and three of his friends by poisoning their meals with rat poison. The 14-year-old girl, Wasila Umaru, was married to the 35-year-old man last week. Although she told authorities she was forced into the betrothal, Wasila will ...

18 hours, 44 minutes ago
Views: 134 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Idle Drifter
Calgary stabbings: How knife crime in Canada can cause ‘moral panic’
What Calgary police chief Rick Hanson called the "worst mass murder" in the city's history didn't end at the barrel of a gun. Instead, the 22-year-old suspect identified on Tuesday as Matthew de Grood is accused of entering the kitchen at a house party, taking "a large knife" and using it to fatally stab four men and one woman, all of whom were students ...

1 day, 7 hours ago
Views: 129 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Skip Intro
Back Story of Yasiel Puig’s Journey to America Should Concern Dodgers
Seemingly from the moment Cuban refugee Yasiel Puig showed up at Dodger Stadium out of nowhere, arriving last June unwilling to discuss his unknown background, the talk behind the batting cages has been rife with unprintable rumors. There were rumors Puig was smuggled out of Cuba by members of a Mexican drug cartel. There were rumors he still owed the smugglers money, and ...

1 day, 13 hours ago
Views: 272 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
aagcobb
New York Electoral College: State Joins National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
Ben Mathis-Lilley, Slate: New York Electoral College: State Joins National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Instead of pushing for a Constitutional amendment, which would have to be ratified in 38 states, advocates ask individual state legislatures to pass an agreement: that they'll pledge all their presidential electors to the winner of the national popular vote as soon as enough other states pass the law to ...

1 day, 14 hours ago
Views: 171 • Comments: 7
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
cycroft
Russ Campbell’s Blog: Will Trudeau’s Party Pay for His Ill-Chosen Words?
Justin Trudeau has talked him­self into a defama­tion law­suit that is likely to leave his party quite a bit lighter in the wal­let. The shoot-from-the-lip Lib­eral leader and his On­tario cam­paign co-chair David Mac­Naughton are named in a $1.5-mil­lion li­bel suit filed on be­half of Chris­tine Innes, a can­di­date who was barred from run­ning for the Lib­eral party. Innes had wanted to con­test ...

1 day, 21 hours ago
Views: 111 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Political Atheist
The Insane History of Rockets at Jet Propulsion Laboratories
The Rocket Boys In the late 1930s, a group of Caltech graduate students were booted off campus after blowing up (part of!) their building during a rocket test gone awry. Unwilling to give up on the joy of semi-controlled explosions, the students and a few of their friends headed into the San Gabriel Mountains. They picked a deserted gully -- Arroyo Seco -- ...

2 days, 10 hours ago
Views: 217 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
iossarian
Drug Companies Want Your Money
Two thematically-related stories on the BBC at the moment: UK drug company Glaxo 'paid bribes to Polish doctors' UK drug company GlaxoSmithKline is facing a criminal investigation in Poland for allegedly bribing doctors, BBC Panorama has discovered. Tamiflu: Millions wasted on flu drug, claims major report Hundreds of millions of pounds may have been wasted on a drug for flu that works no better ...

2 days, 17 hours ago
Views: 239 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 8 • Rating: 0
steve_davis
Skyline Pigeon
Your text to link...

4 days, 21 hours ago
Views: 267 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 4
 Frank says:

DENSE, PUTRID VAPORS from a SMOKE GUN (we rent it) -- From another Zappa graphic, this time a poster advertising a concert: "Therapeutic Abortion with the Mothers..."