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White House Floats Gun Control Proposals

Developing strategies to work around the NRA
Politics • Views: 23,546

The next right wing freakout isn’t hard to predict, as the Obama administration starts putting out feelers to see if America’s ready to do something about its insanely out-of-control addiction to guns: White House Weighs Broad Gun-Control Agenda in Wake of Newtown Shootings.

The White House is weighing a far broader and more comprehensive approach to curbing the nation’s gun violence than simply reinstating an expired ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition, according to multiple people involved in the administration’s discussions.

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement leaders that would require universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, the sources said.

To sell such changes, the White House is developing strategies to work around the National Rifle Association that one source said could include rallying support from Wal-Mart and other gun retailers for measures that would benefit their businesses. White House aides have also been in regular contact with advisers to New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg (I), an outspoken gun-control advocate who could emerge as a powerful surrogate for the Obama administration’s agenda.

The Biden group, formed last month after the massacre at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school that killed 20 children and six adults, plans to submit a package of recommendations to President Obama this month. Once Obama’s proposals are set, he plans to lead a public-relations offensive to generate popular support.

“They are very clearly committed to looking at this issue comprehensively,” said Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, who has been involved in the discussions. The proposals under consideration, he added, are “a deeper exploration than just the assault-weapons ban.”

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674 comments

1 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:37:38pm

Wait, so instead of banning guns, they wish to strengthen the methods currently in place to better control the spread of guns?

Inconceivable!!

//

2 prairiefire  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:40:33pm

This is a tough nut. I think Obama has floated ideas for legislation to the furtherest limits of the left that he can. The Dem reps from purple areas are sounding a little freaked out. I think he will swing back at least 60 degrees to the right of anything he puts forward.

3 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:41:58pm

I think it is great that the White House is attempting to tackle this issue!
Baby steps are OK too! ANYTHING that moves this discussion in the right direction!

4 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:43:43pm

If one is willing to go where angels fear to tread, you can go read/listen to the gun-culture nuts in their own world by visiting various websites/podcasts. Total fantasy world.

5 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:44:43pm
“As we get involved in these ad nauseam debates over the Second Amendment, our children are still at risk,” said Jon Adler, national president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association. “Debating is not the action verb we need to protect our children.”

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

6 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:45:54pm

Ok, because it’s funny!
I just got this!
” Frank says:

Shoot low, they’re riding Shetlands — European Zappa distributors Music For Nations on the occasion of some anniversary of theirs.”

7 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:46:49pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Image: ZZ12C16E01.jpg

8 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:46:54pm

The national database proposal is going to drive most Republicans and blue dogs into a blind rage.

9 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:46:55pm

Oh dear. This can’t be good.

Not that I don’t think this is a good idea. It is. But many people are going to take this as a call to arms.

Sigh.

10 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:47:29pm

For example, here is a popular gun-nut podcast from just today:

[Link: ec.libsyn.com…]

See how many wrongful assertions and fallacies you can spot in the first 10 minutes or so.

11 bratwurst  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:48:09pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

With all due respect, you would not feel this “well” was low if you yourself were sending children out into this dangerous world every day.

12 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:49:52pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

Sorry D_F, but this time the shrill cries were the children. Something has to change.

13 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:51:16pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Ya know, D_F. I keep wanting to like you. You’re smart. You want to do the good thing. But every so often you make statements like this that remind me that much of what passes for American conservatism is psychopathic.

14 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:51:29pm

re: #12 McSpiff

Sorry D_F, but this time the shrill cries were the children. Something has to change.

Yeah, this.

Nearly two dozen children ages 6 and 7 years old were gunned down in their own school. That’s all kinds of fucked up and should lead us to look at our gun culture and our gun laws.

15 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:52:47pm

re: #1 Targetpractice

Wait, so instead of banning guns, they wish to strengthen the methods currently in place to better control the spread of guns?

Inconceivable!!

//

You know who else enforced gun laws?
///

16 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:52:49pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

I’m pretty sure that well got refilled to overflowing when almost two dozen children were killed in their own school.

17 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:54:09pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

OK, oh great swami, what’s your bright idea?

18 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:54:18pm

Realistically? In this congress they’ll get the so-called Gun Show loop hole closed by requiring all transfers to have background checks. There isn’t the votes for anything more than that because of the memory of the Democratic losses after the AWB of 1994 was passed.

If, and only if, the House is flipped in 2014 will anything more be possible. Even then it probably won’t be much more than the “do nothing real but feel good” 1994 legislation.

19 Henchman 25  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:54:21pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Heartless.

When did we get to the point where the right of a person to a gun trumps the right of a person to their life?

And what on earth makes the second amendment so god damn special that it’s the only one, the only one that is magically immune to any sort of amending?

20 jhrhv  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:55:28pm

There are a lot of gun control laws that work everywhere else in the world that can be easily implemented. They save lives and it’s proven.

None of the laws I’m thinking of include taking guns away from people. Anyone who can’t buy into rules that make gun ownership safer for everyone around them including themselves shouldn’t be allowed to own one.

21 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:55:59pm

It didn’t take long for #TGDN to devolve into:

1. a ponzi scheme to “get followers”
2. an out-of-control lynch mob

22 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:56:04pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

You just lost me.

23 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:56:12pm

re: #19 Henchman 25

Heartless.

When did we get to the point where the right of a person to a gun trumps the right of a person to their life?

And what on earth makes the second amendment so god damn special that it’s the only one, the only one that is magically immune to any sort of amending?

Forget any hope of amending the Constitution, that isn’t going to happen near term, period. Nobody could get the votes for that, really under any circumstances.

24 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:56:32pm

re: #19 Henchman 25

Heartless.

When did we get to the point where the right of a person to a gun trumps the right of a person to their life?

And what on earth makes the second amendment so god damn special that it’s the only one, the only one that is magically immune to any sort of amending?

Because DON’T TAKE MAH GUNZ, that’s why.

25 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:57:45pm

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

Forget any hope of amending the Constitution, that isn’t going to happen near term, period. Nobody could get the votes for that, really under any circumstances.

And you’ve lost the plot.

26 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 6:57:51pm

What I can’t figure out is what has changed between 1934 and today? Somehow the NFA is fine, but any attempt to bring the law into this century is an evil plot.

Oh wait, I remember now. The GOP and NRA has convinced its membership that so called ‘gun rights’ are the one thing in this world truly worth American blood and the black man in the Whitehouse just wants to rob them blind.

Sigh.

27 Stanghazi  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:00:29pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

So we wait for 30? 40? Where does the WELL bottom out.

Oh the callousness of the irrational gun folk.

28 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:00:34pm

re: #22 b_sharp

You just lost me.

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

29 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:00:48pm

re: #26 McSpiff

What I can’t figure out is what has changed between 1934 and today? Somehow the NFA is fine, but any attempt to bring the law into this century is an evil plot.

Oh wait, I remember now. The GOP and NRA has convinced its membership that so called ‘gun rights’ are the one thing in this world truly worth American blood and the black man in the Whitehouse just wants to rob them blind.

Sigh.

In 1934, the prevalence of guns like the Thompson in the hands of organized crime was such that public sentiment was totally in favor of laws that would keep such weapons out of the hands of anyone who wasn’t either law enforcement or military. But you’re right, this was before the NRA became a lobbying group for gun manufacturers and began selling gun owners on the idea that any regulation, no matter how innocuous, was a step towards the banning of all firearms.

30 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:01:44pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament.

Are you saying I can have my own Aegis cruiser parked down at Mission Bay?

31 gwangung  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:02:02pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

This has nothing to do with either your statement or the plan proposed.

You are simply not thinking. You are knee jerking out talking points and not thinking about it.

32 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:02:12pm

re: #29 Targetpractice

In 1934, the prevalence of guns like the Thompson in the hands of organized crime was such that public sentiment was totally in favor of laws that would keep such weapons out of the hands of anyone who wasn’t either law enforcement or military. But you’re right, this was before the NRA became a lobbying group for gun manufacturers and began selling gun owners on the idea that any regulation, no matter how innocuous, was a step towards the banning of all firearms.

You’d think the presence of AR-15s in schools and movie theaters would be enough to convince the general public that new regulation is needed, but to go back to my central thesis…

33 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:02:35pm

re: #26 McSpiff

What I can’t figure out is what has changed between 1934 and today? Somehow the NFA is fine, but any attempt to bring the law into this century is an evil plot.

Oh wait, I remember now. The GOP and NRA has convinced its membership that so called ‘gun rights’ are the one thing in this world truly worth American blood and the black man in the Whitehouse just wants to rob them blind.

Sigh.

Well, don’t forget that the NFA was sold as a way to keep the “good” people safe from the bank robbers who were poor Italians, Jews, Catholics and sometimes even Black. That it has, in fact, worked to keep American’s safe is a bonus, but it was rather more about a near revolution in the Midwest and into the plains states.

34 Stanghazi  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:03:26pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

Enemies like Al Queda? Go over there with your gun cowboy! Not needed here.

35 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:03:33pm

Last I knew, owning a functioning Standard Missile was not allowed for individuals. Maybe I’m wrong and need to hit my local gun show to check…

36 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:04:05pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

Right, it’s not as if kids ever get hurt by guns.

37 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:04:33pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

‘disarmament’ , ‘nation has enemies’… You do understand that Red Dawn was just a movie, right D_F? You’re more likely to mistakenly kill someone then you are to defend against the ChiComs..

38 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:04:41pm

re: #32 McSpiff

You’d think the presence of AR-15s in schools and movie theaters would be enough to convince the general public that new regulation is needed, but to go back to my central thesis…

Well, you also have to consider that in 1934, the average gun owner was still hesitant about adopting semiauto handguns, as they still had a reputation of being unreliable compared to revolvers. Yes, AR-15s have been starring more and more in mass shootings, but the bulk of gun crime is still being committed with handguns.

39 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:05:13pm

I just paged another article about this.
And, again.
I applaud the Obama administration for even attempting to tackle, what is clearly a problem, without an easy solution.

40 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:05:15pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

Like I said, I’m sure the terrorists are quaking in their boots after the deaths of twenty first graders.

41 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:05:53pm

re: #32 McSpiff

Nice to “see” you back! Mr. Spiffy!

42 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:06:00pm

re: #38 Targetpractice

Sure, and I agree with that. But why not handle the mass shootings first, given the current political climate?

43 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:06:14pm

I wonder if SDG&E will object if I hook up an AN/ALQ-99 to the grid…

44 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:06:14pm

re: #35 freetoken

Last I knew, owning a functioning Standard Missile was not allowed for individuals. Maybe I’m wrong and need to hit my local gun show to check…

That’s part of the misunderstanding. You could, in fact, own one. Get the paperwork approved & pay all the appropriate fees & taxes. There is almost nothing that is actually banned under the NFA. Highly regulated, yes, and getting your chief of local law enforcement to sign off on the paperwork can be a problem, but in the end, if you have enough money and desire you could legally own a missile like the Standard.

45 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:06:19pm

re: #30 freetoken

Are you saying I can have my own Aegis cruiser parked down at Mission Bay?

No. Understanding our Constitution and our national history and traditions, it can be said that ‘arms’ intended for militia was never thought to include warships. Even those who decried a standing army accepted that the nature of naval matters required that a navy be a standing force controlled by the nation and only government has the right to own warships.

46 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:07:02pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

Really, D_F…just really?

You’ve basically just channeled that fucking choad LaPierre and his ilk.

47 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:07:03pm

Good for @StoopidProof standing up to the #TGDN lynch mob!

48 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:07:27pm

re: #42 McSpiff

Sure, and I agree with that. But why not handle the mass shootings first, given the current political climate?

Because whether I wish to admit it or not, the “gun rights advocates” have a point that going after AR-15s when the majority of gun crimes aren’t committed with them is rather pointless. It would be a might like trying to address vehicular deaths by focusing strictly on the odd elderly driver who plows into a crowded sidewalk.

49 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:07:33pm

re: #44 William Barnett-Lewis

I’m pretty sure that laws governing rockets are pretty prohibitive.

50 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:08:07pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

And you missed the whole point.

51 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:08:49pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

Kindly point to where anything approaches disarmament.

52 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:09:16pm

re: #21 Vicious Babushka

It didn’t take long for #TGDN to devolve into:

1. a ponzi scheme to “get followers”
2. an out-of-control lynch mob

Those weren’t bugs, they were features.

Someone should start a #downwithTGDN

53 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:09:23pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

Out of interest, how many nations with a standing army have had an unarmed citizenry and then gotten conquered?

Is it an unreasoning fear of being conquered you have? Or somehow a delusional belief that having a heavily armed citizenry that shoots each other with insane regularity somehow makes the nation look ‘strong’, thus magically warding off attack?

54 Big Steve  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:09:42pm

I totally realize that this site has advertisers that source off of content and key words and I also agree that for most political debates when ads appear for the opposition it is somewhat “hey if they want to spend their money on us….I’ll take it”……but I do find it disconcerting to see gun site ads along with sales of body armor showing up on LGF. Realize the site owner has to make a living but….

55 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:09:48pm

re: #49 freetoken

I’m pretty sure that laws governing rockets are pretty prohibitive.

The key phrase in the NFA is “destructive device”. There are quite a few more legally owned than most people realize.

56 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:09:54pm

re: #48 Targetpractice

Because whether I wish to admit it or not, the “gun rights advocates” have a point that going after AR-15s when the majority of gun crimes aren’t committed with them is rather pointless. It would be a might like trying to address vehicular deaths by focusing strictly on the odd elderly driver who plows into a crowded sidewalk.

You’ve stated its pointless, but you haven’t actually proven the point. Why would trying to address either of those be pointless? Does something need to be common before its worth addressing?

57 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:09:55pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

How many children would have to be gunned down before your well is replenished?

58 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:10:18pm

re: #49 freetoken

I’m pretty sure that laws governing rockets are pretty prohibitive.

You know who else prohibited privately owned rocket launchers?
///

59 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:10:35pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

When the fuck has anyone advocated banning all guns? When has Barack Obama ever said he was going to ban all guns?

Talking about full disarmament is nothing but wingnut hyperbole. There’s a differnece between gun control regulations and banning all guns.

60 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:10:49pm

re: #55 William Barnett-Lewis

Rockets are prohibited because of air control, and the possibility of hitting aircraft, regardless of the ordnance they carry.

61 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:10:52pm

re: #41 Dancing along the light of day

Nice to “see” you back! Mr. Spiffy!

;-) Always a pleasure!

62 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:12:12pm

re: #54 Big Steve

I totally realize that this site has advertisers that source off of content and key words and I also agree that for most political debates when ads appear for the opposition it is somewhat “hey if they want to spend their money on us….I’ll take it”……but I do find it disconcerting to see gun site ads along with sales of body armor showing up on LGF. Realize the site owner has to make a living but….

I don’t control the ads that you see, and not everyone sees the same ads.

63 Stanghazi  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:12:30pm

re: #51 Gus

Kindly point to where anything approaches disarmament.

They are so fucking paranoid. And that says it all.

They will give up any basic thought or reason, because of their fear.

And these are the peeps with the guns.

64 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:12:35pm

I cannot be convinced that any nation should embrace allowing people to buy military grade weapons with less oversight than it takes to buy cold medicine.

65 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:12:37pm

re: #60 freetoken

Rockets are prohibited because of air control, and the possibility of hitting aircraft, regardless of the ordnance they carry.

Lots of hobbyist rocketry going on out there. Some are classed as “DD’s”. All are still legal.

66 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:12:42pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

Jon Adler National President

Mr. Adler has been an active member in FLEOA since 1994. He was elected to FLEOA’S Executive Board in 2003 as National Secretary, and has since served on the Board as First Vice President and as Executive Vice President. In November 2008, Mr. Adler was elected as FLEOA’S National President for a three year term. One of his biggest accomplishments with FLEOA was drafting the proposal for the Congressional Badge of Bravery Act that was ultimately signed into law by President Bush on July 31st, 2008 (P.L. 110-298)…

67 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:12:54pm

re: #60 freetoken

Rockets are prohibited because of air control, and the possibility of hitting aircraft, regardless of the ordnance they carry.

TYRANNY!

68 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:13:06pm

re: #56 McSpiff

You’ve stated its pointless, but you haven’t actually proven the point. Why would trying to address either of those be pointless? Does something need to be common before its worth addressing?

Well actually yes, it would make an easier case for the banning or at least strict enforcement of such weapons if they were a driving force in gun crimes. Like I said about the Thompson, what drove efforts to get them off the streets was that they were a weapon of choice for organized crime of the era. Semiauto rifles are not and trying to paint them as such would make the NRA’s case that this is about demonizing a class of weapons that’s owned without incident by millions of Americans.

69 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:13:07pm

OK, Charles, or anyone…
What’s with the cute “rebel mouse” top right?
(Clueless as to the whole social media stuff..)

70 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:13:31pm

Ontario gun show wraps up in shadow of new gun control proposals

“I love guns. I love hunting, and you are free in this country to go hunting,” said David Guerra, a carpenter who lives in Ontario. “If they are going to take the guns away from us, what is next?”

FEMA CAMPS!!

71 prairiefire  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:13:55pm

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

You don’t need to be obsidian against steel, D_F, the steel, as an alloy, is already changing. I’m sorry, D_F, this will leave you behind. There is no morality in your argument.

72 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:14:39pm

re: #65 William Barnett-Lewis

Lots of hobbyist rocketry going on out there. Some are classed as “DD’s”. All are still legal.

Does one not have to notify the FAA when shooting above a certain altitude? I used to know someone locally who was big into rocketry, and I thought there were regulations on flight height.

73 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:15:02pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

Who said anything about disarmament, D_F? You act like the WH is planning on disbanding armed forces when what it’s trying to do is keep firearms out of people too insane or stupid to use them properly.

Now you’ve reminded me that much of what passes as American conservatism is paranoid as well as psychopathic. Maybe they should worry about their guns being taken away. I certainly don’t want armed paranoid psychopaths wandering around.

74 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:15:38pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

Less weight? LESS WEIGHT? WTF is wrong with you???

This is REAL. This is Noah Pozner, the youngest child that was murdered. Look at his beautiful face. LOOK AT IT. He was a real living, breathing child with his whole life in front of him and a family that adored him. DID YOU LOOK AT HIM?

Now picture this: He was shot eleven times. ELEVEN.

BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG

That’s eleven times, DF.

Here’s what happened when the Governor of CT came to his funeral and encountered the boy’s mother:

Just before the ceremony, Connecticut Governor Dannel Malloy came to the funeral home to pay his respects. Veronique took him by the arm and brought him to the casket. Noah’s famously long eyelashes — which she spoke about in her eulogy — rested lightly on his cheeks and a cloth covered the place where the lower half of his face had been. “I just needed it to be real for [the governor],” she says. “This was a live, warm, energetic little boy whose life was snuffed out in a fraction of a second because our schools are so defenseless.”

Source

If that doesn’t impress you, if that weight isn’t as heavy as the whole world to you, then you need to check your priorities and then check your heart because you seem to have fucking misplaced it.

75 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:15:43pm

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

No. Understanding our Constitution and our national history and traditions, it can be said that ‘arms’ intended for militia was never thought to include warships. Even those who decried a standing army accepted that the nature of naval matters required that a navy be a standing force controlled by the nation and only government has the right to own warships.

Not exactly true. The Constitution provides Congress with the power to issue letters of marque and reprisal. These gave legal sanction for private, armed merchant fleets to go after enemy shipping.

However Ron Paul has so far been the only legislator to champion the idea in the 21st Century.

76 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:15:48pm

re: #69 Dancing along the light of day

OK, Charles, or anyone…
What’s with the cute “rebel mouse” top right?
(Clueless as to the whole social media stuff..)

You can create a web page of your Twitter feed for example.

77 Big Steve  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:15:56pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Yea I know. Guess we will have to live with it. Incidentally I am seeing ads for Calibrex selling body armour and D vor selling weapons.

78 Stanghazi  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:18:12pm

You know what Dark? You really really blew it with that comment.

I’m still cringing. And knowing that there are many others just like you out there.

Those kids, killed in 1 minute with multiple shots. How in the hell do people just wash this away?

79 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:18:36pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

Well actually yes, it would make an easier case for the banning or at least strict enforcement of such weapons if they were a driving force in gun crimes. Like I said about the Thompson, what drove efforts to get them off the streets was that they were a weapon of choice for organized crime of the era. Semiauto rifles are not and trying to paint them as such would make the NRA’s case that this is about demonizing a class of weapons that’s owned without incident by millions of Americans.

Sure, but the NFA isn’t purely tied to organized crime like RICO for example. The NFA could be extended today to cover things like AR-15s. If you think the only argument against this is ‘they aren’t widely used for organized crime’ you’ll be arguing against a strawman..

80 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:18:38pm

re: #72 freetoken

Does one not have to notify the FAA when shooting above a certain altitude? I used to know someone locally who was big into rocketry, and I thought there were regulations on flight height.

The best thing for most amateur rocketry folks is to find out the local groups in their area. Those groups usually have set, scheduled launch times and safe locations where they launch from. And they tend to have all the clearances they’d need from the FAA and other local authorities.

81 Stanghazi  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:20:12pm

re: #70 freetoken

Ontario gun show wraps up in shadow of new gun control proposals

FEMA CAMPS!!

As seen at recent gun show

Image: 024MD.png

82 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:20:18pm

“And the really straining to make public health education relevant to kids award goes to…”

Contagious Pokemon?

83 jhrhv  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:20:22pm

I know this is a kind of strange aside in ways and sort of out of place given where several of the comments are coming from, BUT I wonder how much the gun violence hurts the tourism economy of the country.

I’d be willing to bet there are a lot of people from other nations that think I would love to go see or see more of the USA but that friging place to unsafe for me to take my family to for a holiday.

84 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:20:59pm

re: #72 freetoken

Does one not have to notify the FAA when shooting above a certain altitude? I used to know someone locally who was big into rocketry, and I thought there were regulations on flight height.

In certain parts of the nation, yes. But that’s FAA regulations, not NFA regulations. Just because you can own something doesn’t imply you can fly it anywhere you wish anymore than I can legally shoot a rifle anywhere I wish.

I think we’re talking past each other on this one.

85 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:21:22pm

re: #54 Big Steve

I totally realize that this site has advertisers that source off of content and key words and I also agree that for most political debates when ads appear for the opposition it is somewhat “hey if they want to spend their money on us….I’ll take it”……but I do find it disconcerting to see gun site ads along with sales of body armor showing up on LGF. Realize the site owner has to make a living but….

Kwitcherbitchn. All the lonely hearts ads directed at me start out: “We don’t want young, handsome men…we want you.”

86 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:21:23pm

re: #78 Stanghazi

Those kids, killed in 1 minute with multiple shots. How in the hell do people just wash this away?

BECAUSE SECOND AMENDMENT THAT’S WHY.

It’s simply galling. WTF. When the hell did the Second Amendment trump every other goddamn thing in the Constitution, and everything else in this country?

87 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:21:30pm

re: #26 McSpiff

What I can’t figure out is what has changed between 1934 and today? Somehow the NFA is fine, but any attempt to bring the law into this century is an evil plot.

Oh wait, I remember now. The GOP and NRA has convinced its membership that so called ‘gun rights’ are the one thing in this world truly worth American blood and the black man in the Whitehouse just wants to rob them blind.

Sigh.

Between 1934 and today…

World War II (lots of women into the workforce)
De-segregation of the military
US heavily into a more proactive foreign involvement policy
Civil Rights Movement
Counterculture (late 60s)
And that’s just getting to 1970.

88 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:22:14pm

re: #79 McSpiff

Sure, but the NFA isn’t purely tied to organized crime like RICO for example. The NFA could be extended today to cover things like AR-15s. If you think the only argument against this is ‘they aren’t widely used for organized crime’ you’ll be arguing against a strawman..

That’s just it, I’m not arguing against reclassifying them under NFA, I actually support that route. What I’m arguing against is the “gun crime” angle. Better instead to make the case that such weapons are too easily bent to unlawful ends to continue under the current regulation. Better to argue that AR-15 clones and other semiauto rifles feeding from detachable magazines have no legitimate lawful use that cannot be fulfilled by manual-action alternatives.

89 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:23:12pm

re: #80 Lidane

The point being, the use of rocketry above a certain altitude is indeed tightly regulated, for the safety of aircraft and everyone.

re: #84 William Barnett-Lewis

The point being, it is fully in the best interests of the citizens of this nation for our government to regulate dangerous items and activities, that can cause damage and death to others.

And, if you think owning an operable (launch-able) Standard Missile is fine, then go ahead and procure one. We’ll send you Christmas cards to your cell.

90 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:23:33pm

re: #88 Targetpractice

That’s just it, I’m not arguing against reclassifying them under NFA, I actually support that route. What I’m arguing against is the “gun crime” angle. Better instead to make the case that such weapons are too easily bent to unlawful ends to continue under the current regulation. Better to argue that AR-15 clones and other semiauto rifles feeding from detachable magazines have no legitimate lawful use that cannot be fulfilled by manual-action alternatives.

Oh, total agreement then. Sorry for the crosstalk on that one.

91 Stanghazi  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:24:12pm

re: #74 CuriousLurker

sob

92 Big Steve  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:24:20pm

While I do consider myself conservative on most things…..gun control is not one of them. When my sons were young, my ex went to work early so she could be home when the kids came home and I left late. For two years I got the joy of walking my kindergartner and first grade to school. They would hold my hands when we crossed by the crossing guard. They enjoyed school on most days. We would have lively chats along the way. If I had delivered my boys to school one day and within hours one of them was killed by a gunman…..I would not be here today. I would have been crushed. I do not buy the argument that guns are not a cause of this. Guns and their ease of use ARE the reason someone can gun down 20+ people in a minute or two. I am guessing that ANYONE who has not been affected by this never had the opportunity to walk their young child to school.

93 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:25:07pm

Gun control. There are no dirtier words spoken by anyone out there in politics today if you’re a gun owner or NRA member.

Never mind that the nation has higher numbers of firearms deaths than other countries, that we’ve got more firearms in circulation than anyone else, and no country would ever accept the carnage we see on an annual basis - both in terms of murders and suicides.

The NRA has no problem violating the rights of those who have mental illnesses when they propose national databases to track the mentally ill, but refuse to accept even the slightest restriction or registration requirements on firearms - thinking that registration is only a step away from confiscation.

Confiscation isn’t going to happen. Not now. Not ever. For the most part, people who want to see the most dangerous of these weapons and attachments off the market so that we don’t see more of the kinds of mass carnage we’ve seen in the past.

We’ve seen in just the past month alone that criminals couldn’t care that other people are armed - they’ve murdered cops. They’ve murdered firefighters responding to fires. They’ve shot at cops in police stations.

The solution isn’t to go and add more guns to the situation, but to see that those who shouldn’t be allowed access to the firearms aren’t able to get at them. It means tightening firearms dealer licenses, closing loopholes, and giving more resources to law enforcement agencies so that they can close nonfatal shootings (far fewer of those cases are ever closed than fatal shootings - but if you catch those involved in nonfatal shootings, you’ll take those criminals off the streets, reduce the crime, and you will actually reduce health care burdens too - as all those gun violence victims have to get treatment - expensive treatment at that).

94 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:25:09pm

re: #74 CuriousLurker

Less weight? LESS WEIGHT? WTF is wrong with you???

This is REAL. This is Noah Pozner, the youngest child that was murdered. Look at his beautiful face. LOOK AT IT. He was a real living, breathing child with his whole life in front of him and a family that adored him. DID YOU LOOK AT HIM?

Now picture this: He was shot eleven times. ELEVEN.

BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG
BANG

That’s eleven times, DF.

Here’s what happened when the Governor of CT came to his funeral and encountered the boy’s mother:

If that doesn’t impress you, if that weight isn’t as heavy as the whole world to you, then you need to check your priorities and then check your heart because you seem to have fucking misplaced it.

re: #78 Stanghazi

You know what Dark? You really really blew it with that comment.

I’m still cringing. And knowing that there are many others just like you out there.

Those kids, killed in 1 minute with multiple shots. How in the hell do people just wash this away?

It’s easy for people to wave things away like Newtown and to circle the wagons when it doesn’t personally affect them.

How’s it feel to defend inanimate objects that are designed to kill and maim over those that are killed by fucked-up people wielding them (with copious, insane amounts of ammo), Dark?

95 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:26:40pm

re: #78 Stanghazi

You know what Dark? You really really blew it with that comment.

I’m still cringing. And knowing that there are many others just like you out there.

Those kids, killed in 1 minute with multiple shots. How in the hell do people just wash this away?

America’s already washed it away. As a nation, America has already said that they are acceptable losses so people can continue to cuddle their guns. Far better that we kill hundreds of small children, far better that we arm teachers and have more gun battles in the classroom, than a single person give up a precious, precious gun.

As for you, DF, life is not a roleplaying game. The leaders who make the tough decisions in the stories, who make that really tough decision to sacrifice lives for the greater good, do so in stories. In real life, those decisions are very few and far between. And the greater good is tangible, apparent, and obvious, not some nebulous idea of looking ‘tough’. Furthermore, it’s only a really difficult decision if you actually give a shit about the lives you’re sacrificing.

96 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:26:51pm

re: #89 freetoken

The point being, the use of rocketry above a certain altitude is indeed tightly regulated, for the safety of aircraft and everyone.

Yep. Just like the use of cars for everyday drivers is regulated, with specific guidelines about who is capable of driving, license requirements, and a whole heap of laws in place to make sure that people know what the rules are what happens when you break those rules.

I’m still confused about why guns are an exception to this. I just can’t process the way that gun laws have otherwise reasonable people freaking out about tyranny.

97 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:27:11pm

re: #79 McSpiff

Sure, but the NFA isn’t purely tied to organized crime like RICO for example. The NFA could be extended today to cover things like AR-15s. If you think the only argument against this is ‘they aren’t widely used for organized crime’ you’ll be arguing against a strawman..

Widely used for crime period, then. Most crimes committed with a firearm are committed with a handgun. A semi-auto rifle is a better weapon for fighting than a handgun, but many of the features that make it better (more ammo capacity, more powerful rounds, better sights, longer barrel) also make rifles far heavier than pistols, harder to use without extensive practice, and far harder to conceal.

98 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:27:45pm

re: #96 Lidane

Yep. Just like the use of cars for everyday drivers is regulated, with specific guidelines about who is capable of driving, license requirements, and a whole heap of laws in place to make sure that people know what the rules are what happens when you break those rules.

I’m still confused about why guns are an exception to this. I just can’t process the way that gun laws have otherwise reasonable people freaking out about tyranny.

Especially when the fucking amendment says “Well regulated” right in the fucking text.

99 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:30:11pm

re: #98 Kragar

Especially when the fucking amendment says “Well regulated” right in the fucking text.

People always focus on the second part of that Amendment and ignore the rest. It’s maddening.

Regulation =/= Banning. And now those beautiful kids in Newtown are nothing more than collateral damage in the NRA’s mind just so they can keep selling fear and paranoia and MOAR GUNZ.

100 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:30:53pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

Widely used for crime period, then. Most crimes committed with a firearm are committed with a handgun. A semi-auto rifle is a better weapon for fighting than a handgun, but many of the features that make it better (more ammo capacity, more powerful rounds, better sights, longer barrel) also make rifles far heavier than pistols, harder to use without extensive practice, and far harder to conceal.

Which only matters depending on the type of crime being committed. There are times when the primary concern is to put as many rounds down range as quickly as possible, with as much killing power as possible. For that the AR-15 works exceedingly well. It also means that crimes involving them tend to be particularly gruesome.

101 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:30:54pm

re: #83 jhrhv

I know this is a kind of strange aside in ways and sort of out of place given where several of the comments are coming from, BUT I wonder how much the gun violence hurts the tourism economy of the country.

I’d be willing to bet there are a lot of people from other nations that think I would love to go see or see more of the USA but that friging place to unsafe for me to take my family to for a holiday.

I know when I’ve travelled to the U.S. to visit my wife the thought of all the guns floating around gives me a moment’s pause.

102 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:31:34pm

re: #91 Stanghazi

re: #94 TedStriker

I know DF isn’t a bad person, but SHIT sometimes his lack of empathy just makes me lose it. I mean, a six-year-old is completely innocent… a six-year-old has a tiny little body… when I think of what those ELEVEN shots must’ve done to his body…. and his face… his mother wasn’t even spared seeing… forget it. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. Later.

103 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:31:35pm

Just following the @GunDeaths on a daily basis.

All day. Every day. People are killed in all manner of gun violence.

Mass shootings. Hostage situations (just yesterday in Aurora, CO - 3 killed, plus the gunman).

Suicides.

Random violence.

Bar fights. Disrespect.

All ending with the sound of gunfire.

The solution to this isn’t adding still more guns.

104 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:32:01pm

re: #96 Lidane

…snip
I’m still confused about why guns are an exception to this. I just can’t process the way that gun laws have otherwise reasonable people freaking out about tyranny.

Because 20% or more of your fellow citizens are seriously fucked in the head, and have grabbed the 2nd A as a tripwire. Touching it tells them their every freakn’ anti-government fever dream is real, and that adding another sheet of paper to the requirements is a liberal nazi kristallnacht.

It isn’t going to change. The President can’t get a goddam traffic judge appointed in this jacked-up situation.

105 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:32:30pm

re: #103 lawhawk

Just following the @GunDeaths on a daily basis.

All day. Every day. People are killed in all manner of gun violence.

Mass shootings. Hostage situations (just yesterday in Aurora, CO - 3 killed, plus the gunman).

Suicides.

Random violence.

Bar fights. Disrespect.

All ending with the sound of gunfire.

The solution to this isn’t adding still more guns.

Accidents.

106 jhrhv  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:32:55pm

Can we bring this back up in the face of wing nuts when they go on about how any kind of gun control makes people less safe?

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

107 Ming  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:33:56pm

It looks like the Obama Administration, with input from law enforcement and gun retailers like WalMart, may be able to make our country a little safer. We benefit from regulations on driving cars (e.g. insurance requirements, speed limits, traffic law enforcement), and there may be some regulations on guns that society as a whole would benefit from. It’s an area worth investigating.

108 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:34:49pm

re: #105 Gus

Indeed. Thousands of accidents a year. Accidents leading to serious injuries or deaths too.

You’ve got situations where parents accidentally shoot their kids (or themselves). Children accidentally shooting siblings or friends while playing with guns.

Hunting accidents too.

109 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:35:02pm

re: #74 CuriousLurker

I’ve seen the photos of what gunfire and modern weapons do to human beings, even to children. But while that knowledge is quite frightening, it does not by itself change my policy positions.

The evil of what happened to Noah Pozner is not that rifles able to do to him what was done to him exist, for such rifles can be used for good or ill depending on the person wielding them. The evil was that monster who named ought to be damned in memory decided that he had the right to murder a child. Blame the monster, not the rifle.

110 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:36:11pm

Wow, this story got really fucking weird.
The bizarre tale of John McAfee, spymaster

111 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:36:56pm

Guns don’t kill people.

Ping pong balls, credit cards, flat screen TVs, hammers, and vaccines kill people.

112 erik_t  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:37:18pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

Blame the monster, not the rifle.

Deafening lack of thought.

113 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:37:23pm

re: #102 CuriousLurker

re: #94 TedStriker

I know DF isn’t a bad person, but SHIT sometimes his lack of empathy just makes me lose it. I mean, a six-year-old is completely innocent… a six-year-old has a tiny little body… when I think of what those ELEVEN shots must’ve done to his body…. and his face… his mother wasn’t even spared seeing… forget it. I don’t want to talk about it anymore. Later.

I do feel regarding what happened to Noah Pozner, and I say his name because he was good and ought not to be forgotten. But what I feel is not fear or anger over what was used to kill him, I feel antipathy verging on hate for the monster who murdered him.

114 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:37:57pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

Blame the monster, not the rifle.

Only after you admit it’s easier to kill a bunch of people in a hail of bullets than it is to stab, strangle, or beat them all to death.

Tell me that Adam Lanza could have done the same thing in Newtown without immediate, ready access to his mother’s arsenal of guns.

115 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:38:21pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

Stating that isn’t actually an argument. You can say the rifle had nothing to do with it, but it would be better if you could flesh that out a little…

116 erik_t  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:38:27pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

But what I feel is not fear or anger over what was used to kill him, I feel antipathy verging on hate for the monster who murdered him.

Pretty fucking weak hate to not override your love of black shiny things.

Christ almighty man.

117 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:38:53pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’ve seen the photos of what gunfire and modern weapons do to human beings, even to children. But while that knowledge is quite frightening, it does not by itself change my policy positions.

The evil of what happened to Noah Pozner is not that rifles able to do to him what was done to him exist, for such rifles can be used for good or ill depending on the person wielding them. The evil was that monster who named ought to be damned in memory decided that he had the right to murder a child. Blame the monster, not the rifle.

You know what I blame? I blame the frankly evil attitude that you and far too many others espouse that says that it’s much more important that everyone gets to have guns than it is to save lives.

‘Guns don’t kill people, people kill people’? Fuck that for the magical mumbo-jumbo it is. No better than creationism or climate denial.

118 gwangung  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:40:18pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’ve seen the photos of what gunfire and modern weapons do to human beings, even to children. But while that knowledge is quite frightening, it does not by itself change my policy positions.

The evil of what happened to Noah Pozner is not that rifles able to do to him what was done to him exist, for such rifles can be used for good or ill depending on the person wielding them. The evil was that monster who named ought to be damned in memory decided that he had the right to murder a child. Blame the monster, not the rifle.

Yet you are adamantly opposed to measures that would prevent the monster from hurting the child.

Seems to me that makes you a monster as well.

119 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:40:19pm

re: #98 Kragar

Especially when the fucking amendment says “Well regulated” right in the fucking text.

There’s plenty of contemporary evidence to point to the term well regulated as meaning “properly functioning.”

“The equation of time … is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial.”
-J. Joyce, 1812

Considering that the founders didn’t place any federal regulations on militias or private ownership of arms it does seems plausible that this was more likely their meaning.

120 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:41:12pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’ve seen the photos of what gunfire and modern weapons do to human beings, even to children. But while that knowledge is quite frightening, it does not by itself change my policy positions.

I should also add that your policy positions lack thought and common sense, and are based entirely on magical thinking rather than fact. This is not new for you, but blatantly stating that it’s better that kids die in unspeakable horror just so you can continue to play make-believe is a new low for you.

121 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:41:40pm
122 jhrhv  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:41:46pm

re: #101 Romantic Heretic

I’m living outside of Toronto. I have for many years. One of my best friends owns an AR-15. He’s had several training courses to be allowed to own it. He has to keep it in a gun locker. He chooses to put a trigger lock on it as well just in case his kids get in the locker. I believe the law is no clips that hold more than 5 rounds.

He’s had at least one spot check from police where they came to his home to make sure everything is stored safely. He has no issue with any of this. It is common sense to him to have these safeties in place.

I’m going to Florida next week. I’m not scared but I’ve thought a couple of times I’m going probably feel less safe in Disney than I do at home where people with registered firearms are.

123 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:41:56pm

Read this several times:

The White House is weighing a far broader and more comprehensive approach to curbing the nation’s gun violence than simply reinstating an expired ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition, according to multiple people involved in the administration’s discussions.

124 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:42:39pm

re: #17 TedStriker

hey man, sorry but i lost track of time and had to run to a dinner thing.

i put my HD sata in #2, then cd SATA into #5

125 McSpiff  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:42:53pm

Bad people bad. Good people good. That’s really all the laws needed in any civilized nation right there. If bad people do bad things, well its because they’re bad. And that makes good people feel sad. But what could the good people have done? It wasn’t one of their own that did it. It was a bad person, this fact clearly evident since the person has done something bad. That’s just what bad people do.

Maybe, just maybe we could give all the good people guns. Then they could stop the bad people! It all makes so much sense now, its flawless!

126 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:42:58pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

What the fuck do you think your weapons can protect you from? You’re being a paranoid, chickenshit fear monger.

No other free country, even countries that have actually undergone physical attacks, like the UK and other European countries, countries that have been devastated during multiple wars and terrorist attacks, show as much fear and paranoia as you do.

This fear, this fevered grasping for some imaginary personal security from some larger than life boogeymen is just a manifestation of a twisted American Exceptionalism.

127 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:44:14pm

re: #119 goddamnedfrank

There’s plenty of contemporary evidence to point to the term well regulated as meaning “properly functioning.”

Considering that the founders didn’t place any federal regulations on militias or private ownership of arms it does seems plausible that this was more likely their meaning.

Which means the Government could stipulate all firearm owners be required to use a certain gun which operates according to regulations and they show proper proficiency to use said gun.

Enjoy your government issued muzzle loader.

128 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:46:15pm

re: #103 lawhawk

Yes. Too. fucking. many.

Just like a hell of a lot of other deaths in America every day. But it’s not cool to talk about the thousands that die from alcohol. Or tobacco. Or simple medical mistakes. Or cars. Or any of the myriad of other forms of preventable deaths each year that are far larger than those 18,000 gun deaths.

We have a culture that accepts a hell of lot more death than it should in many different ways and different contexts. I don’t know the solution.

But earlier someone posted a bit of stats on no-fault divorce and how that changed the nation - 20% fewer women committing suicide, 30% lower domestic violence and so on.

And then the changes wrought by not using lead in gasoline, as pointed out in Mother Jones recently.

We can make progress, and sometimes it will be with things far removed from the original purpose of the change.

I’d like to see guns more firmly regulated. I think I made that clear in what I wrote to the Vice President. But that alone is not going to change society and until society changes, real progress is not going to be made.

It has to be looked at like we have done with tobacco, seat belts, motorcycle & bicycle helmets - education, starting young, that shows people a better way. Give them reasons to go along with the changes and they’ll be more likely to do so.

Carrots & sticks.

129 erik_t  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:46:23pm

Surely hypothetical town armories, kept under lock and key until invasion, would appease the ZOMG RED DAWN dipshits, right?

And we could stop using this inane bullshit as an excuse for facilitating the mass shootings of children, right?

I’m willing to blow the ten billion dollars or whatever that this would cost if it would make the NRA and their brainless intentionally-non-thinking mouthpieces collapse under the weight of their own hubris. Because holy fuck, how can you be so stupid or so unwilling to think? And which is worse?

130 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:46:28pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’ve seen the photos of what gunfire and modern weapons do to human beings, even to children. But while that knowledge is quite frightening, it does not by itself change my policy positions.

The evil of what happened to Noah Pozner is not that rifles able to do to him what was done to him exist, for such rifles can be used for good or ill depending on the person wielding them. The evil was that monster who named ought to be damned in memory decided that he had the right to murder a child. Blame the monster, not the rifle.

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

I do feel regarding what happened to Noah Pozner, and I say his name because he was good and ought not to be forgotten. But what I feel is not fear or anger over what was used to kill him, I feel antipathy verging on hate for the monster who murdered him.

You spout all of these platitudes about how you feel for what happened to Pozner (and, presumably, the other 27 people Lanza murdered) and the hate you feel at Lanza for doing it, but then defend the availability of the hardware, hardware that was originally designed to specifically kill humans effectively on the battlefield.

G-ddamn, you’re extremely tone-deaf.

131 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:47:06pm

re: #124 SpaceJesus

hey man, sorry but i lost track of time and had to run to a dinner thing.

i put my HD sata in #2, then cd SATA into #5

Any luck?

132 Tigger2005  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:47:15pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

How does one get to be so incredibly heartless and inhuman?

I have no children of my own, but I’m capable of empathy. I can take how I felt when my mother died unexpectedly and extrapolate from that how a person must feel at the loss of a child (probably 10X worse). Imagine. It was just two weeks before Christmas. Many of those parents had probably already bought and wrapped their kids’ Christmas presents. Imagine their hearts shattering over and over again, the agonizing, physical pain stabbing at them, the utter, overwhelming desolation suffocating them every time they looked at those gaily wrapped packages that would never be ripped open, toys their children would never play with with little hands they would never again hold.

Damn you to hell.

133 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:47:27pm

re: #127 Kragar

Which means the Government could stipulate all firearm owners be required to use a certain gun which operates according to regulations and they show proper proficiency to use said gun.

Enjoy your government issued muzzle loader.

Not playing lawyer, but there are gun-regulation cases out there that follow a different chain of thought. Sawed-off shotguns were not protected because they were not enough like standardized military weapons. I’m letting someone more familiar with the law dig that case out.

134 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:48:31pm

re: #132 Tigger2005

How does one get to be so incredibly heartless and inhuman?

I have no children of my own, but I’m capable of empathy. I can take how I felt when my mother died unexpectedly and extrapolate from that how a person must feel at the loss of a child (probably 10X worse). Imagine. It was just two weeks before Christmas. Many of those parents had probably already bought and wrapped their kids’ Christmas presents. Imagine their hearts shattering over and over again, the agonizing, physical pain stabbing at them, the utter, overwhelming desolation suffocating them every time they looked at those gaily wrapped packages that would never be opened, toys their children would never play with.

Damn you to hell.

I’ve believed I’m going there for a long time.

135 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:48:49pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’ve seen the photos of what gunfire and modern weapons do to human beings, even to children. But while that knowledge is quite frightening, it does not by itself change my policy positions.

The evil of what happened to Noah Pozner is not that rifles able to do to him what was done to him exist, for such rifles can be used for good or ill depending on the person wielding them. The evil was that monster who named ought to be damned in memory decided that he had the right to murder a child. Blame the monster, not the rifle.

Fuck you.

A gun that can fire off two or three shots a second for ten seconds, and then take just a couple of seconds to reload is definitely a problem.

136 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:49:23pm

re: #133 Decatur Deb

Not playing lawyer, but there are gun-regulation cases out there that follow a different chain of thought. Sawed-off shotguns were not protected because they were not enough like standardized military weapons. I’m letting someone more familiar with the law dig that case out.

Miller vs. United States, 1939.

137 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:49:31pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’ve seen the photos of what gunfire and modern weapons do to human beings, even to children. But while that knowledge is quite frightening, it does not by itself change my policy positions.

The evil of what happened to Noah Pozner is not that rifles able to do to him what was done to him exist, for such rifles can be used for good or ill depending on the person wielding them. The evil was that monster who named ought to be damned in memory decided that he had the right to murder a child. Blame the monster, not the rifle.

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

I do feel regarding what happened to Noah Pozner, and I say his name because he was good and ought not to be forgotten. But what I feel is not fear or anger over what was used to kill him, I feel antipathy verging on hate for the monster who murdered him.

You know, right now my mind keeps turning towards Iran and nuclear weapons, but I’m so freaking pissed at the moment that my brain can’t properly form the analogy about how (by your logic) we shouldn’t fear or be angry about or try to control the “innocent” nuclear weapons…

I give up. Logging out now.

138 efuseakay  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:50:20pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament. I’m a firm believer in arms and self defense being available being a cornerstone of a free citizenry.

Wake. The. Fuck. Up. This isn’t a disarmament proposal. If you’re a responsible, lawful citizen, you’ll still be able to have guns.

139 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:50:53pm

re: #127 Kragar

Which means the Government could stipulate all firearm owners be required to use a certain gun which operates according to regulations and they show proper proficiency to use said gun.

Enjoy your government issued muzzle loader.

It is reasonable to say that the founders in no way envisioned the implications of widespread semi-automatic gun ownership combined with high population density, because that’s undeniably true. The Amendment, however, is worded in such a way that the right to bear arms becomes a prerequisite for a well functioning militia, which is purported to be a necessity for a free state.

In the here and now, we either decide that the amendment is flawed and needs rewriting, or we allow wiggle room for the definition of “arms.”

140 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:52:07pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I’ve believed I’m going there for a long time.

Self-loathing is only cool in Twilight books.

Get over yourself.

Making blatantly monstrous statements just to get your fix of everyone here being disgusted at you and validating your own self-loathing is childish. Get a grip, and use your brain.

141 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:52:09pm

re: #128 William Barnett-Lewis

Yes. Too. fucking. many.

Just like a hell of a lot of other deaths in America every day. But it’s not cool to talk about the thousands that die from alcohol. Or tobacco. Or simple medical mistakes. Or cars. Or any of the myriad of other forms of preventable deaths each year that are far larger than those 18,000 gun deaths.

We have a culture that accepts a hell of lot more death than it should in many different ways and different contexts. I don’t know the solution.

But earlier someone posted a bit of stats on no-fault divorce and how that changed the nation - 20% fewer women committing suicide, 30% lower domestic violence and so on.

And then the changes wrought by not using lead in gasoline, as pointed out in Mother Jones recently.

We can make progress, and sometimes it will be with things far removed from the original purpose of the change.

I’d like to see guns more firmly regulated. I think I made that clear in what I wrote to the Vice President. But that alone is not going to change society and until society changes, real progress is not going to be made.

It has to be looked at like we have done with tobacco, seat belts, motorcycle & bicycle helmets - education, starting young, that shows people a better way. Give them reasons to go along with the changes and they’ll be more likely to do so.

Carrots & sticks.

That other things cause death has nothing to do with whether or not guns should be controlled.

142 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:53:07pm

Left a comment before. Thought it was good info. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

143 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:53:08pm

re: #133 Decatur Deb

Not playing lawyer, but there are gun-regulation cases out there that follow a different chain of thought. Sawed-off shotguns were not protected because they were not enough like standardized military weapons. I’m letting someone more familiar with the law dig that case out.

United States vs Miller. Basically a test case for the NFA that determined that the types of weapons regulated weren’t common militia weapons (this was decided before the US Army had significantly fielded the M1 Garand rifle). The case law neglects to mention that had the short barreled shotgun in question been registered, it would have been legal for Miller to possess. However, at the time, the $200 tax was a de-facto ban on the possession of such items by most Americans.

144 calochortus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:54:03pm

re: #44 William Barnett-Lewis

That’s part of the misunderstanding. You could, in fact, own one. Get the paperwork approved & pay all the appropriate fees & taxes. There is almost nothing that is actually banned under the NFA. Highly regulated, yes, and getting your chief of local law enforcement to sign off on the paperwork can be a problem, but in the end, if you have enough money and desire you could legally own a missile like the Standard.

Approval can be, shall we say, difficult. Jacques Littlefield imported two non-functional Scud missiles and while the first one made it through customs, the second one didn’t because it wasn’t non-functional enough. Mr. Littlefield has passed away in the intervening years, but his military vehicle collection still is located in the next town over.
There will be no one coming to take away our rights!

145 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:54:05pm

re: #139 goddamnedfrank

It is reasonable to say that the founders in no way envisioned the implications of widespread semi-automatic gun ownership combined with high population density, because that’s undeniably true. The Amendment, however, is worded in such a way that the right to bear arms becomes a prerequisite for a well functioning militia, which is purported to be a necessity for a free state.

In the here and now, we either decide that the amendment is flawed and needs rewriting, or we allow wiggle room for the definition of “arms.”

Changing the 2nd A is a multi-generational task. It will happen right after we heal the souls of the citizenry. Better get started.

146 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:54:32pm

re: #131 TedStriker

nope. just tried again.

i’ve tried AHCI and RAID but then my hard drive doesn’t even detect in bios

147 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:58:15pm

re: #146 SpaceJesus

nope. just tried again.

i’ve tried AHCI and RAID but then my hard drive doesn’t even detect in bios

New drive? Never used?
Is the power supply good?
Did you use the supplied CPU fan?
Are you using the cables from the MoBo box?

148 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:58:43pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I’ve believed I’m going there for a long time.

You don’t own any guns yourself, do you? This whole thing is just an exercise in ideological puritanism.

As an actual gun owner, I find it incredibly annoying to have such an important argument dominated by a self loathing child’s counter productive poofery.

149 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:58:53pm

re: #146 SpaceJesus

nope. just tried again.

i’ve tried AHCI and RAID but then my hard drive doesn’t even detect in bios

Which MoBo are you using?

150 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 7:59:51pm

re: #144 calochortus

Approval can be, shall we say, difficult. Jacques Littlefield imported two non-functional Scud missiles and while the first one made it through customs, the second one didn’t because it wasn’t non-functional enough. Mr. Littlefield has passed away in the intervening years, but his military vehicle collection still is located in the next town over.
There will be no one coming to take away our rights!

Shit, I didn’t know that Littlefield died…three years ago. Just watched the MythBusters episode the other nightwhen Jamie and Adam were doing the interleaved phone book myth using two of his museum’s vehicles.

151 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:00:00pm

re: #147 b_sharp

yes to all of the above. i got everything from tiger direct brand new two days ago.

152 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:00:26pm

re: #149 b_sharp

GA-78LMT-S2P

153 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:00:32pm

re: #140 Renaissance_Man

Self-loathing is only cool in Twilight books.

Get over yourself.

Making blatantly monstrous statements just to get your fix of everyone here being disgusted at you and validating your own self-loathing is childish. Get a grip, and use your brain.

What I’m going to do is log off for the night. My initial point was expressed badly and my attempts to explain it got away from what I had been trying to say. The post (#12) was delivered in a sarcastic and under the circumstances assholish tone that ticked others off. Then i made the mistake worse by forgetting what I was trying to say and ignoring the hurt others are still feeling.

For my lack of empathy in what I said, I apologize. But the fact remains that people are ticked of right now, so rather than stay and make things worse I’m going to log off till tomorrow.

Again, I’m sorry I was being an ass, and I’ll try to do better. Good Night.

154 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:00:36pm

Cue the RWNJ conspiracy nuts:

155 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:00:48pm

re: #145 Decatur Deb

Changing the 2nd A is a multi-generational task. It will happen right after we heal the souls of the citizenry. Better get started.

This is the point I was trying to address in 128. Thank you for saying it better.

156 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:03:18pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

What I’m going to do is log off for the night. My initial point was expressed badly and my attempts to explain it got away from what I had been trying to say. The post (#12) was delivered in a sarcastic and under the circumstances assholish tone that ticked others off. Then i made the mistake worse by forgetting what I was trying to say and ignoring the hurt others are still feeling.

For my lack of empathy in what I said, I apologize. But the fact remains that people are ticked of right now, so rather than stay and make things worse I’m going to log off till tomorrow.

Again, I’m sorry I was being an ass, and I’ll try to do better. Good Night.

There are a lot of people out there who could use a better psychotherapist. You’re the only one I know who needs a better theologian.

157 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:04:35pm

re: #139 goddamnedfrank

It is reasonable to say that the founders in no way envisioned the implications of widespread semi-automatic gun ownership combined with high population density, because that’s undeniably true. The Amendment, however, is worded in such a way that the right to bear arms becomes a prerequisite for a well functioning militia, which is purported to be a necessity for a free state.

In the here and now, we either decide that the amendment is flawed and needs rewriting, or we allow wiggle room for the definition of “arms.”

I agree but on the other side.. Doesn’t our Government regulate everything? If it chooses to do gun control then they damn well should do it for Americans… Not the NRA… and also keep regulations up to date as times change. Everything is regulated in the 21st century. Insurance, cars, electricity etc.

158 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:07:14pm

re: #142 Gus

Don’t confuse the politicians who submitted the legislation for the people who actually wrote it. They are not necessarily (probably rarely) the same people. Remember the Arizona immigration law? Politicians get the legislation from “think tanks”, policy groups, or whatever and slap their names on it. Regardless, my central point is the Iranian regime is a problem and there seems to be a bipartisan effort to topple the regime. I think this is a good thing and it could work.

159 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:07:16pm

re: #157 HoosierHoops

I agree but on the other side.. Doesn’t our Government regulate everything? If it choose to do gun control then they damn well should do it for Americans… Not the NRA… and also keep regulations up to date as times change. Everything is regulated in the 21st century. Insurance, cars, electricity etc.

Hey. I should be able to drive a top fuel dragster up and down the street. /

160 erik_t  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:07:28pm

re: #139 goddamnedfrank

In the here and now, we either decide that the amendment is flawed and needs rewriting, or we allow wiggle room for the definition of “arms.”

Eh. We have wiggle room on free speech, wiggle room on the right to vote, wiggle room on the fourth amendment and probable cause.

Wiggle room implies that we can have thoughtful jurisprudence and interpretation of the framework by a qualified judiciary. I would argue that it is the lack of politically accepted wiggle room that makes the second amendment so infernally troublesome.

161 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:07:33pm

re: #152 SpaceJesus

GA-78LMT-S2P

What changes to the BIOS have you made?
Is it an SATA 2.0 or SATA 3.0
If it is 6Gb drive, is there a switch in the BIOS to turn SATA3 on or off?

162 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:08:22pm

re: #156 Decatur Deb

There are a lot of people out there who could use a better psychotherapist. You’re the only one I know who needs a better theologian.

Sounds like he’s known a few too many Dominicans… He should hang out with a few of the Jesuits I’ve known. Maybe a few Franciscans too.

Or us loosey-goosey Episcopalians… ;)

163 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:09:34pm

re: #159 Gus

Hey. I should be able to drive a top fuel dragster up and down the street. /

fuckers won’t license my M-60 Abrams tank I bought from eBay.

164 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:09:59pm

re: #152 SpaceJesus

GA-78LMT-S2P

What drive are you using?

165 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:10:28pm

re: #162 William Barnett-Lewis

Sounds like he’s known a few too many Dominicans… He should hang out with a few of the Jesuits I’ve known. Maybe a few Franciscans too.

Or us loosey-goosey Episcopalians… ;)

Wasn’t joking—someone put some bad ju-ju inside his head. He needs a seriously loving Quaker or someone to get it out. It’s not part of him.

166 Kdizzle  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:12:06pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

Who the fuck is talking about dismemberment you rube? And how the fuck are Islamic terrorists or Chinese oligarchs going to be greater threat to the American citizenry when you or I lose some fantastical right to own a fucking M-16?

You are just a fucking David Brooks robot spitting out the same inane bullshit. GOP water carrying, extremist apologizing tripe, masquerading as profundity and intellectualism when its anything but.

Your a mean spirited old coot. You’d probably be at the high end of the cesspool over at redstate or townhall, but your bullshit would still fit right in.

167 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:12:24pm

re: #161 b_sharp

I changed the BIOS so that the CDROM boots first, that’s about it right now. I’m back to default settings.

How do I find out the answers to the last two questions?

168 calochortus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:12:34pm

re: #150 TedStriker

Shit, I didn’t know that Littlefield died…three years ago. Just watched the MythBusters episode the other nightwhen Jamie and Adam were doing the interleaved phone book myth using two of his museum’s vehicles.

Yeah, I never knew him, but you’d see him every so often and now and then you’d see a tank or something being hauled along a road near us… It was sort of different.

169 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:13:23pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

Don’t confuse the politicians who submitted the legislation for the people who actually wrote it. They are not necessarily (probably rarely) the same people. Remember the Arizona immigration law? Politicians get the legislation from “think tanks”, policy groups, or whatever and slap their names on it. Regardless, my central point is the Iranian regime is a problem and there seems to be a bipartisan effort to topple the regime. I think this is a good thing and it could work.

The paper trail.

170 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:13:29pm

re: #164 b_sharp

I’m trying to use my new hard drive.

I actually just tried to use my old one to see what happens, and windows7 install recognizes it.

I have no idea why the new one isn’t showing up. I did nothing differently.

171 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:14:05pm

[Sound of breathing in oxygen mask.]

172 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:15:59pm

re: #170 SpaceJesus

I’m trying to use my new hard drive.

I actually just tried to use my old one to see what happens, and windows7 install recognizes it.

I have no idea why the new one isn’t showing up. I did nothing differently.

I took a look at the specs for your board and it’s limited to 3Gb. What is the model # of the new drive?

173 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:16:03pm

re: #165 Decatur Deb

Wasn’t joking—someone put some bad ju-ju inside his head. He needs a seriously loving Quaker or someone to get it out. It’s not part of him.

While said light heartedly, I wasn’t joking either. There’s something strange there and a good spiritual adviser is something he needs.

174 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:16:04pm

re: #171 Gus

Where’s Clarice?

175 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:16:18pm

re: #157 HoosierHoops

I agree but on the other side.. Doesn’t our Government regulate everything? If it choose to do gun control then they damn well should do it for Americans… Not the NRA… and also keep regulations up to date as times change. Everything is regulated in the 21st century. Insurance, cars, electricity etc.

Because none of those things are explicitly exempted from infringement. There are things that, rightly or wrongly, the government is specifically forbidden from doing, like quartering troops in your house, placing prior restraints on free speech and assembly, and the right to bear arms.

Now we’ve accepted certain encroachments, anti-gang injunctions that limit the right to assembly, prohibitions against divulging national secrets, the National Firearms Act and State’s ability to strip voting and gun ownership rights from felons. In a purely legal sense however, the fact that these freedoms have been narrowed in these limited cases doesn’t nullify them entirely, or place them in the category of unprotected activities like driving.

176 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:18:18pm

re: #172 b_sharp

Toshiba HDKPC03 DT01ACA100 1TB Hard Drive - 1TB, 7200 RPM, SATA, 3.5

177 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:18:26pm

You know. The constitution is cool and such. But in a way it requires a sort of caveman logic to it…

“If it ain’t there it’s legal only whens I hates it.”

178 sagehen  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:22:31pm

re: #145 Decatur Deb

Changing the 2nd A is a multi-generational task. It will happen right after we heal the souls of the citizenry. Better get started.

It does seem odd that the 2nd Amendment should be so deeply beloved by people who have no particular fondness for the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th.

179 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:23:56pm

re: #172 b_sharp

Do I need to partition the drive before I try to install 7?

180 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:24:15pm

re: #176 SpaceJesus

Toshiba HDKPC03 DT01ACA100 1TB Hard Drive - 1TB, 7200 RPM, SATA, 3.5

Lucky for you..When you build a computer, usually one part fails..That is a great HD.. if you can’t get it spin up and work after all the toil you have done with it today messing around return it for a new one…effen it..That drive is messed up and your old drive works just fine.

181 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:24:36pm

re: #178 sagehen

It does seem odd that the 2nd Amendment should be so deeply beloved by people who have no particular fondness for the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th.

But they love the 22nd. Reagan.

182 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:25:17pm

re: #177 Gus

You know. The constitution is cool and such. But in a way it requires a sort of caveman logic to it…

It was written by a bunch of half in the bag, slave owning misogynists.

183 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:25:21pm

Scientists break absolute zero barrier

The implications of the new research suggest that engines could theoretically be more than 100 percent efficient. It also offers potential explanations for “dark energy,” the matter that may cause the universe to expand.

The researchers manipulated a gas in order to force most of the gas particles into high energy states, giving it the negative reading (objects at positive temperatures contain particles with mostly low energy states).

But the resulting gas was not colder than absolute zero — if you can wrap your mind around it. “Yet the gas is not colder than zero kelvin, but hotter. It is even hotter than at any positive temperature — the temperature scale simply does not end at infinity, but jumps to negative values instead,” researcher Ulrich Schneider, who is a University of Munich in Germany physicist, told LiveScience.

184 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:25:43pm

re: #176 SpaceJesus

Toshiba HDKPC03 DT01ACA100 1TB Hard Drive - 1TB, 7200 RPM, SATA, 3.5

You have a motherboard limited to SATA II and an SATA III drive. Normally that wouldn’t be a problem, but there may be a problem with that board dealing with an SATA III drive, or you could have a bad drive.

Do you have another SATA system you could test the drive on?

185 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:28:14pm

re: #182 goddamnedfrank

It was written by a bunch of half in the bag, slave owning misogynists.

At that, it works pretty well. But it needs constant maintenance, and that’s what the RWNJ ‘patriots’ can’t handle.

186 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:28:25pm

re: #180 HoosierHoops


The new HD works, it shows up in BIOS and when I run the old one next to it (the old one has vista) I can do stuff with it.

187 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:29:08pm

re: #183 Kragar

“Yet the gas is not colder than zero kelvin, but hotter. It is even hotter than at any positive temperature — the temperature scale simply does not end at infinity, but jumps to negative values instead,”

188 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:29:50pm

re: #184 b_sharp

That’s weird. I bought the kit barebones from tiger direct. They sold this HD with the MoBo and the RAM and CPU together.

189 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:30:22pm

re: #176 SpaceJesus

Toshiba HDKPC03 DT01ACA100 1TB Hard Drive - 1TB, 7200 RPM, SATA, 3.5

If I were you, I’d say ef it for tonight & make the store swap it out tomorrow and start over from scratch. For all my dislike of Redmond, this should be as simple as plug it and go & if it doesn’t it’s more likely the hardware than it is the software.

If you really want to make sure, you could download a cd/dvd image of some free OS (linux/bsd/whatever) and try it’s installer but odds are if the MS installer won’t see it, nothing will.

190 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:30:36pm

re: #186 SpaceJesus

The new HD works, it shows up in BIOS and when I run the old one next to it (the old one has vista) I can do stuff with it.

Didn’t you say it doesn’t show up when you set the board to RAID or AHCI?

191 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:30:37pm

re: #184 b_sharp

You have a motherboard limited to SATA II and an SATA III drive. Normally that wouldn’t be a problem, but there may be a problem with that board dealing with an SATA III drive, or you could have a bad drive.

Do you have another SATA system you could test the drive on?

His old drive works fine and he bought everything new so there shouldn’t be a version issue with SATA..He been struggling all day. You should be able to help him out.

192 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:30:46pm

re: #187 jaunte

How does one beat Twitter?

193 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:31:54pm

re: #192 Kragar

How does one beat Twitter?

194 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:32:10pm

re: #192 Kragar

How does one beat Twitter?

Has something to do with a dragon and a chalice on Level 9.

195 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:32:45pm

re: #194 Decatur Deb

Has something to do with a dragon and a chalice on Level 9.

The chalice in the palace?

196 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:32:48pm

re: #194 Decatur Deb

Vorpal blade tech.

197 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:32:59pm

re: #191 HoosierHoops

His old drive works fine and he bought everything new so there shouldn’t be a version issue with SATA..He been struggling all day. You should be able to help him out.

Even new equipment can be bad tho. That’s what has to be ruled out.

198 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:33:14pm

re: #195 Kragar

The chalice in the palace?

Has the brew that is true.

199 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:34:09pm

re: #188 SpaceJesus

tiger direct

Oy. I haven’t had to deal with them in years, thank god…

200 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:34:20pm

re: #190 b_sharp

Yeah, but it shows up if I set it to IDE. If I boot up Vista using my old HD, I can see my new HD as drive E: and format it and run scans on it and save to it, run from it, etc.

201 erik_t  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:34:35pm

re: #192 Kragar

How does one beat Twitter?

I’m a fan of a meat tenderizer, personally.

202 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:34:39pm

re: #198 Decatur Deb

Has the brew that is true.

What about the vessel with the pestle?

203 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:36:12pm

re: #202 Kragar

What about the vessel with the pestle?

Maybe I have that backwards…I’ll only drink half.

204 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:36:51pm

re: #188 SpaceJesus

That’s weird. I bought the kit barebones from tiger direct. They sold this HD with the MoBo and the RAM and CPU together.

In that case they’ve been told the equipment is compatible. We can assume then that there is no version problems. That leaves the possibility of a bad drive.

When you boot your old drive into Vista on that system, does Vista see the new drive?

205 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:37:33pm

re: #185 Decatur Deb

At that, it works pretty well. But it needs constant maintenance, and that’s what the RWNJ ‘patriots’ can’t handle.

Maintenance = compromise which is how it was hammered out in the first place. Both left and right forget that to our peril.

Would that I could make reading both the federalist papers & the anti-federalist papers mandatory before running for congress…

206 efuseakay  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:38:01pm

If you need 30 rounds to protect yourself instead of 10… or 5… You have no business owning a gun in the first place.

207 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:38:08pm

That was not a good moment.

208 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:39:01pm

re: #200 SpaceJesus

Yeah, but it shows up if I set it to IDE. If I boot up Vista using my old HD, I can see my new HD as drive E: and format it and run scans on it and save to it, run from it, etc.

But Windows 7 install doesn’t see it? Or does it see it but doesn’t show an installable partition?

209 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:40:49pm

re: #208 b_sharp

Windows install doesn’t see it. I haven’t partitioned the drive or anything. I saw a comment on a tech forum that said you have to partition and format the drive first for install to see it, but I have no idea if that’s correct or not or even how to do it

210 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:41:38pm

Paranoia in tricorne drag:

“…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government. Such has been the patient sufferance of We The People of these States united; and such is now the necessity which compels us to restore our current Systems of Government. The history of this federal government, and its tyrannical despotic president, Barack Hussein Obama, is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over We The Free People of these States. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world:”[Link: pastebin.com…]

211 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:42:11pm

re: #189 William Barnett-Lewis

If I were you, I’d say ef it for tonight & make the store swap it out tomorrow and start over from scratch. For all my dislike of Redmond, this should be as simple as plug it and go & if it doesn’t it’s more likely the hardware than it is the software.

If you really want to make sure, you could download a cd/dvd image of some free OS (linux/bsd/whatever) and try it’s installer but odds are if the MS installer won’t see it, nothing will.

hey William! So about 4 years ago our company owned the largest HD mfg in the world…HD are shit..There is alot of waste from scrap, quality issues and costs..We lost millions every year and everybody was amazed at the losses and there were a lot of pissed off directors.
We sold that shit operation off to Seagate I believe.. suckers..:)
Also our biggest competitor is Toshiba in Japan..There has been bad blood for like a 100 years between us..I’ve heard some great stories about the feuds.
So in keeping with our fine traditions… Fuck Toshiba!
/

212 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:43:27pm

My kids:

“What is this on my hand?”
“What?”
“Your FACE!” *SLAP*

213 calochortus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:43:38pm

re: #210 jaunte

If they couldn’t use standard English, why didn’t they just write it in Pig Latin for added class?

214 makeitstop  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:43:59pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’ve seen the photos of what gunfire and modern weapons do to human beings, even to children. But while that knowledge is quite frightening, it does not by itself change my policy positions.

The evil of what happened to Noah Pozner is not that rifles able to do to him what was done to him exist, for such rifles can be used for good or ill depending on the person wielding them. The evil was that monster who named ought to be damned in memory decided that he had the right to murder a child. Blame the monster, not the rifle.

Tell me what ‘good’ a Bushmaster can do, Dark. Convince me.

215 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:45:45pm

re: #213 calochortus

Ethay istoryhay ofway isthay ederalfay overnmentgay, andway itsway
yrannicaltay espoticday esidentpray, Arackbay Usseinhay Obamaway, isway away istoryhay ofway epeatedray injuriesway andway
usurpationsway, allway avinghay inway irectday objectway ethay
establishmentway ofway anway absoluteway yrannytay overway Eway
Ethay Eefray Eoplepay ofway esethay Atesstay.

Still crazy.

216 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:46:11pm

re: #197 b_sharp

Even new equipment can be bad tho. That’s what has to be ruled out.

That’s what I said earlier.. I always seem to end up with one part that is defective..Return that drive, after 8 hrs when working on new stuff it all should work pretty much out the box. :)

217 calochortus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:46:27pm

re: #215 jaunte

Still crazy.

Damn! You’re right!

218 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:48:01pm

re: #211 HoosierHoops

hey William! So about 4 years ago our company owned the largest HD mfg in the world…HD are shit..There is alot of waste from scrap, quality issues and costs..We lost millions every year and everybody was amazed at the losses and there were a lot of pissed off directors.
We sold that shit operation off to Seagate I believe.. suckers..:)
Also our biggest competitor is Toshiba in Japan..There has been bad blood for like a 100 years between us..I’ve heard some great stories about the feuds.
So in keeping with our fine traditions… Fuck Toshiba!
/

Deathstars? At least that’s what I remember the Travelstar drives being called for a long time. Not sure they are what you’re referring to but god, they went from great to bad fast. And then the drives themselves went bad really fast! Leave that machine on overnight two or three times and you could have a total meltdown.

219 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:48:28pm

re: #209 SpaceJesus

Windows install doesn’t see it. I haven’t partitioned the drive or anything. I saw a comment on a tech forum that said you have to partition and format the drive first for install to see it, but I have no idea if that’s correct or not or even how to do it

No, that’s not correct. Windows 7 install can see an uninitialized drive unless it has been partitioned by a Linux system previously.

Windows 7 install will partition and format the drive. I’m wondering about the boot sector and the partition record.

Is it possible the Windows 7 disk is a problem?

220 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:48:29pm

re: #214 makeitstop

Tell me what ‘good’ a Bushmaster can do, Dark. Convince me.

EPIC PENIS COMPENSATION DEVICE!!!11!!
*sound of hootin’, hollerin’, and chest-thumpin’*

221 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:49:34pm

re: #219 b_sharp

Well, the disk says it is for upgrades on the box, but it also allows a new installationg of windows.

222 erik_t  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:50:16pm

re: #214 makeitstop

Tell me what ‘good’ a Bushmaster can do, Dark. Convince me.

Give a grand old time after being unlocked and before being relocked at a properly supervised firing range.

Oops I popped the narrative.

223 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:50:57pm

re: #216 HoosierHoops

That’s what I said earlier.. I always seem to end up with one part that is defective..Return that drive, after 8 hrs when working on new stuff it all should work pretty much out the box. :)

I build systems and upgrade systems and repair systems all the time, and I get way too many bad components that I have to return. It can be frustrating as hell.

224 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:51:09pm

re: #211 HoosierHoops

…snip..
So in keeping with our fine traditions… Fuck Toshiba!
/

Quiet propellers.

225 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:52:11pm

re: #221 SpaceJesus

it gives you two options at start up

1) upgrade to 7
2) install a new copy of windows 7

226 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:53:49pm

re: #218 William Barnett-Lewis

Deathstars? At least that’s what I remember the Travelstar drives being called for a long time. Not sure they are what you’re referring to but god, they went from great to bad fast. And then the drives themselves went bad really fast! Leave that machine on overnight two or three times and you could have a total meltdown.

We bought IBM HD operations and all the patents and specs for all the drives.
TravelStars were renamed by us and then by Seagate and it’s the same cheap drive as ever. Seagate will improve it over time or drop it and create a new cheaper robust drive.

227 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:54:51pm

re: #220 Interesting Times

Have I inadvertently stumbled upon an ingenious way to reframe this debate? Don’t call it an “assault weapons ban”, or even “gun control” - call it:

The End Proliferation of Penis Compensation Devices Act

228 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:54:57pm

re: #224 Decatur Deb

Quiet propellers.

qProps™

229 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:56:39pm

re: #221 SpaceJesus

Well, the disk says it is for upgrades on the box, but it also allows a new installationg of windows.

I was more concerned with a scratch or weird area on the disk itself.

Put your other drive in by itself and then boot from the Windows install disk. It should see the Vista and ask if you want to upgrade or perform a new install. If it does see the Vista drive then your new drive is likely the problem.

It won’t overwrite your Vista drive without asking first, so you don’t have to worry much.

230 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:57:13pm

re: #226 HoosierHoops

We bought IBM HD operations and all the patents and specs for all the drives.
TravelStars were renamed us and by Seagate and it’s the same cheap drive as ever. Seagate will improve it over time or drop it and create a new cheaper robust drive.

Heh.

I do have one post IBM 40gb drive that’s in an old Mac Powerbook. It’s a freaking energizer bunny while every other Travelstar died within 6 months.

231 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:58:08pm

re: #229 b_sharp

Oh it sees the old drive and will let me install 7 on it.

Should I just do that, then transfer everything over to the new drive?

Probably violates Terms of Use

232 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:58:39pm

re: #224 Decatur Deb

Quiet propellers.

Oh, fuck, that’s right. They sold that tech… I had forgotten that little bit of nastiness.

233 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 8:59:41pm

re: #232 William Barnett-Lewis

Oh, fuck, that’s right. They sold that tech… I had forgotten that little bit of nastiness.

Haven’t bought anything of theirs since.

234 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:00:49pm

Something I’ve not seen addressed in gun control discussion is production caps. We’re awash in the damned things - we’ve got plenty - but there are tons of them being made all the time. If we want to reduce the numbers in circulation, is there any rational way to make fewer of them?

Obviously new guns need to be made to replace breakage and wear from use, by law enforcement or the military especially, but what about civilian demand?

Yearly purchase limit maybe?

This gets into all kinds of legal territory re: regulation of commerce, personal property rights, and so on, but since we know the average American’s reaction to any reasonable request for restraint is knee-jerk “FUCK YOU”, I’m curious if there’s any legal way to induce a reduction in demand.

235 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:01:23pm

re: #231 SpaceJesus

Oh it sees the old drive and will let me install 7 on it.

Should I just do that, then transfer everything over to the new drive?

Probably violates Terms of Use

No, not because of the license, but because Windows is so deeply tied into the specifics of your system. It could well install fine on the first machine but then not run on the other because of some very tiny incompatability.

No, just send it back to Tiger & be ready to sick you state’s AG office on them for fraud. I don’t know now, but they used to be the platinum standard for refusing to deal with warranties.

They are that cheap for a reason…

236 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:03:26pm

re: #233 Decatur Deb

Haven’t bought anything of theirs since.

Thanks for the reminder. They just moved into Mitsubishi territory for me.

237 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:03:27pm

re: #210 jaunte

I’m seeing a lot of “Patriot” with a capital “P” being thrown around in the last week or two. Is there some new right-wing fantasy meme I’m not aware of? New club for angry white people maybe?

238 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:04:06pm

I’m late to the party (as usual) but I might be one of the few people here who doesn’t like the idea of a database of gun owners. Particularly one that is publicly accessible. Why? because it can lead to more complex and confusing laws regarding what is registered, how a private resell is registered, if a gun is stolen, how is it handled, would it be a crime to not report a stolen firearm? would it be a crime to register a private transaction? Effectively, you can come close to outlawing the sale of guns with increasing red-tape.

Do I think high capacity magazines should be restricted/outlawed. hell yes. if it takes 30 shots to defend yourself or kill a deer, you really shouldn’t be holding onto that gun in the first place.

But personally I’d love to see anyone who wants to own an assault style weapon agree to join a militia of some sort, license it and make sure that it pays a yearly fee to cover the costs of classes and training and education, along with drills to coordinate with the local national guard. nothing fancy, just a meet and greet every 6 months or year for a day or weekend where they can do stuff out in the field.

Anyone who would feel a fear that the United States could be invaded, shouldn’t have a problem with the concept I’d think.

is ‘giving guns to a minor’ mean you can’t even let them shoot one at the firing range with parental supervision? or you can’t even go hunting with your kids? cause if it does. then I can’t agree with it. If it simply means minors can’t own guns. I’m still not comfortable with it, honestly, particularly when talking about hunting, ROTC, etc.

Mental health checks? I worry that with the stigma of mental health already bad enough, people who need help may not get it, unless we as a country start being OK with forcibly committing people to psychiatric wards (and who’s going to pay for it, cause if you really intend for it to be psychiatric care and not simply a permanent holding pen for people that society thinks *might* pose a threat, then it’s going to cost a lot of money for therapy and treatment). There’s a lot of work that needs to be done to the mental health system, and to society as a whole on the entire subject. and if meaningful help is given to people with mental illness, then that’s great. I just can’t see it ever happening, and if it does, I imagine it’d get gutted by Republicans once they regain control of the branches of Government.

Sorry about the rather meandering post. but I hope I’ve made some sort of sense and explained my concerns.

239 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:04:48pm

re: #235 William Barnett-Lewis

No, not because of the license, but because Windows is so deeply tied into the specifics of your system. It could well install fine on the first machine but then not run on the other because of some very tiny incompatability.

No, just send it back to Tiger & be ready to sick you state’s AG office on them for fraud. I don’t know now, but they used to be the platinum standard for refusing to deal with warranties.

They are that cheap for a reason…

I think they give you an RMA number and will pay for shipping. it’s usually a 2 day turnaround.. But I haven’t done one in years

240 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:05:43pm

re: #237 Pawn of the Oppressor

I’m seeing a lot of “Patriot” with a capital “P” being thrown around in the last week or two. Is there some new right-wing fantasy meme I’m not aware of? New club for angry white people maybe?

“Patriot Movement”. It’s not new—version of the Clinton-era militia crap revived for the Obama era.

241 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:06:24pm

re: #237 Pawn of the Oppressor

I think it’s the same old fantasy of superior “effort” deserving of privilege. Just some more random caps for EMPHAsis.

242 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:07:51pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

It’s simple, really: I cannot be convinced that a nation that has enemies like our should embrace disarmament.

Why are you lying and claiming that this represents embracing disarmament?

243 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:08:35pm

re: #231 SpaceJesus

Oh it sees the old drive and will let me install 7 on it.

Should I just do that, then transfer everything over to the new drive?

Probably violates Terms of Use

Nope. Don’t do that. Just copying the stuff over will not make the drive bootable.

If everything works as it should with the old drive, then the problem is likely the new drive.

Install both drives, boot into Vista go here and download and install the windht program. I’m not sure if it will test your drive, some of them will only run on their own brands, but if it does see what it comes up with.

244 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:09:58pm

re: #242 Obdicut

Why are you lying and claiming that this represents embracing disarmament?

He’s long left. If you want to slam him, do it when he’s around. He may be wrong but he deserves that much.

245 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:10:57pm

re: #238 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

I’m late to the party (as usual) but I might be one of the few people here who doesn’t like the idea of a database of gun owners. Particularly one that is publicly accessible. Why? because it can lead to more complex and confusing laws regarding what is registered, how a private resell is registered, if a gun is stolen, how is it handled, would it be a crime to not report a stolen firearm? would it be a crime to register a private transaction? Effectively, you can come close to outlawing the sale of guns with increasing red-tape.

How on earth would requiring people to actually report gun sales to each other be onerous red tape? It’s not like private citizens are going to move massive amounts of guns— or if they are, that’s a freaking problem.

And it comes nowhere close to outlawing the sale of guns. Did you mean the private sale of guns?

And yes, if your gun is stolen and you don’t report it, that sure as shit should be a crime.

But personally I’d love to see anyone who wants to own an assault style weapon agree to join a militia of some sort, license it and make sure that it pays a yearly fee to cover the costs of classes and training and education, along with drills to coordinate with the local national guard. nothing fancy, just a meet and greet every 6 months or year for a day or weekend where they can do stuff out in the field.

What is a militia? Give me some requirements. Are the whackjob militia’s down patrolling the border militias?

246 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:11:15pm
247 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:11:41pm

re: #244 William Barnett-Lewis

He’s long left. If you want to slam him, do it when he’s around. He may be wrong but he deserves that much.

He can come back and answer. Lies also don’t really deserve anything other than to be called lies, no matter who’s saying them. We are in no way talking about disarmament and bringing it up is fucking stupid as shit.

248 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:11:49pm

re: #242 Obdicut

Why are you lying and claiming that this represents embracing disarmament?

If you can’t buy anti-tank weaponry off the rack at a self serve checkout, it means you’re living in a dictatorship.

Image: bakara_market_where_the_largest_arms_bazaar_in_africa_is1.jpg

249 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:12:50pm

re: #238 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

I’d absolutely sign up for some training and “well regulated militia” membership (Army Reserve Reserve? LOL) if that’s what it meant to keep my AR. Hell, it makes sense and I’d feel good to do it. Maybe there could be real disaster preparedness training involved. Want to keep the rifle? Get a full background check, promise to keep it secure and in working order, maintain a minimum standard of capability, and so on, like the Swiss apparently do.

Provide the service and I’ll sign up. Hell, I’d pay to do that if I had the money…

250 b_sharp  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:12:52pm

SpaceJesus, I have to run, but my opinion is you have a bad drive. Contact tigerdirect and get an exchange.

251 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:13:13pm

Hmph. ROAR! Growl!

252 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:14:07pm

A working group led by Vice President Biden is seriously considering measures backed by key law enforcement

of course most terrans are not aware that homo sapiens sapiens has been quarantined by the united federation of planets to protect other species

253 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:15:07pm

re: #242 Obdicut

Why are you lying and claiming that this represents embracing disarmament?

If you are an enemy and are attacking our shores. We have the Marines, Army, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard to protect us. I really think these guys jack-off to Red Dawn or something.
This isn’t 1789 it’s 2013 and only cave men seem to refuse to grow up and join our country again.

254 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:15:10pm

re: #251 Gus

Hmph. ROAR! Growl!

255 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:16:14pm

re: #240 Decatur Deb

“Patriot Movement”. It’s not new—version of the Clinton-era militia crap revived for the Obama era.

Yeah, I remember. Funny how this notion is reborn when Democrats are in office.

I used to be automatically suspicious of any group that had “Peace” or “Justice” in its name, since they were usually not promoting either of those things. I’m going to go ahead and add “Freedom”, “Patriot”, and “Family” to that list.

256 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:16:19pm

re: #254 jaunte

[Embedded content]

257 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:16:57pm

re: #249 Pawn of the Oppressor

I’d absolutely sign up for some training and “well regulated militia” membership (Army Reserve Reserve? LOL) if that’s what it meant to keep my AR. Hell, it makes sense and I’d feel good to do it. Maybe there could be real disaster preparedness training involved. I envision something like National Guard or maybe an “Army Reserve… Reserve!”. Want to keep the rifle? Get a full background check, promise to keep it secure and in working order, maintain a minimum standard of capability, and so on, like the Swiss apparently do.

Provide the service and I’ll sign up. Hell, I’d pay to do that if I had the money…

About 23 states maintain non-Army National Guard militias that answer only to the governor. (Most are unarmed, and volunteers supply their own Army-standard uniforms.) They are used as backfill for deployed ANG units and to help with disaster relief. Below that level of officialdom are the self-organized groups that tend nutcase.

258 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:17:37pm

re: #253 HoosierHoops

If you are an enemy and are attacking our shores. We have the Marines, Army, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard to protect us. I really think these guys jack-off to Red Dawn or something.
This isn’t 1789 it’s 2013 and only cave men seem to refuse to grow up and join the country again.

If the last few decades have taught us anything, its that the days when a few men with rifles could pose a serious threat to a real military force are long over.

259 erik_t  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:17:44pm

re: #249 Pawn of the Oppressor

I’d absolutely sign up for some training and “well regulated militia” membership (Army Reserve Reserve? LOL) if that’s what it meant to keep my AR.

I don’t have a firearm of any sort and I don’t expect to ever have one, but I’d happily sign up. Nearly everyone in this country could do with a little practice cooperating and functioning under duress with people that they might not otherwise consider their best best friends.

260 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:18:04pm

re: #247 Obdicut

Have you bothered to look at 153 or doesn’t that fit the narrative?

261 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:19:55pm

re: #260 William Barnett-Lewis

Have you bothered to look at 153 or doesn’t that fit the narrative?

Sure. What about it? Do you see him explaining why the holy hell he’s talking about disarmament? Or, better, apologizing for lying by implying anyone is talking about disarmament?

262 erik_t  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:20:38pm

re: #261 Obdicut

Sure. What about it? Do you see him explaining why the holy hell he’s talking about disarmament?

Squid ink-cloud.

263 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:22:22pm

re: #261 Obdicut

Sure. What about it? Do you see him explaining why the holy hell he’s talking about disarmament? Or, better, apologizing for lying by implying anyone is talking about disarmament?

I had thought better of you.

Good night.

264 Tigger2005  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:22:30pm

re: #92 Big Steve

While I do consider myself conservative on most things…..gun control is not one of them. When my sons were young, my ex went to work early so she could be home when the kids came home and I left late. For two years I got the joy of walking my kindergartner and first grade to school. They would hold my hands when we crossed by the crossing guard. They enjoyed school on most days. We would have lively chats along the way. If I had delivered my boys to school one day and within hours one of them was killed by a gunman…..I would not be here today. I would have been crushed. I do not buy the argument that guns are not a cause of this. Guns and their ease of use ARE the reason someone can gun down 20+ people in a minute or two. I am guessing that ANYONE who has not been affected by this never had the opportunity to walk their young child to school.

I have no children (although I do have nieces and nephews) and this latest slaughter affected me profoundly.

Meanwhile, a woman I knew as a teenager, who has raised several kids, keeps posting pro-gun NRA propaganda on Facebook.

265 Gus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:28:39pm
266 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:29:00pm

re: #263 William Barnett-Lewis

I had thought better of you.

Good night.

You know that as responsible gun owners D_F’s weird bullshit makes whatever case we try to make that much more difficult to communicate, right? The guy doesn’t even own a gun, it’s all about his Dad and his political party, second hand ideology sold by a grown child. The truth is that people here treat him with way more deference and a lighter touch than he deserves.

267 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:29:11pm

re: #261 Obdicut

Sure. What about it? Do you see him explaining why the holy hell he’s talking about disarmament? Or, better, apologizing for lying by implying anyone is talking about disarmament?

Dark is a good guy and offers his opinions which many don’t like or approve off but his tone and intent are true to him, Who knows? some day we may convert him to our side. :)
/hope today finds you well

268 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:30:17pm

re: #250 b_sharp

Thanks for your help. I’m going to use that alignment tool on the drive

269 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:32:44pm

re: #245 Obdicut

How on earth would requiring people to actually report gun sales to each other be onerous red tape? It’s not like private citizens are going to move massive amounts of guns— or if they are, that’s a freaking problem.

And it comes nowhere close to outlawing the sale of guns. Did you mean the private sale of guns?

What I mean is regulatory hassle. You don’t have to outlaw something to make it virtually impossible to get. You just have to make it difficult enough and frustrating enough that people give up trying to get it.

If you want an example of that, try applying for social security disability. I don’t think it’s a straw man to say it would be a valid concern. But we might have to agree to disagree on this one :)

And yes, if your gun is stolen and you don’t report it, that sure as shit should be a crime.

Should it be a crime if you don’t report medications stolen? (how about your cold medicines? I’ve never liked the idea of criminalizing the failure to report a crime. And I don’t like the idea of carving out an exception criminalizing a private citizen’s failure to report a stolen gun to the police.

What is a militia? Give me some requirements. Are the whackjob militia’s down patrolling the border militias?

re: #249 Pawn of the Oppressor

I’d absolutely sign up for some training and “well regulated militia” membership (Army Reserve Reserve? LOL) if that’s what it meant to keep my AR. Hell, it makes sense and I’d feel good to do it. Maybe there could be real disaster preparedness training involved. Want to keep the rifle? Get a full background check, promise to keep it secure and in working order, maintain a minimum standard of capability, and so on, like the Swiss apparently do.

Provide the service and I’ll sign up. Hell, I’d pay to do that if I had the money…

The idea is pretty close to the above. conceptually it’s the idea of being inclusive with groups that want to organize and possess high powered weapons. If you make them feel like they’re performing a civic duty, even if they’re paying a fee to be a part of it, then I think it’s much less likely you’ll see fringe whack job nut groups joining and forming. In addition, it can serve to create a wholesome atmosphere for people who otherwise might be limited to joining those whackjob groups.

I don’t expect everyone would want to join. after all people are whacky enough to feel that it is a government plot to take their guns or something. but at least then if the groups formed on my idea work as designed, then the federal government won’t be as worried about people in those groups going off the deep end. (hopefully those groups of people would police their own) and instead they could focus their criminal investigations in the real whackjob groups.

I’m not saying the idea is perfect, but I can hope it’d be a starting point for ideas that are outside of the box WRT gun control.

270 erik_t  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:35:29pm

re: #266 goddamnedfrank

As it is said, one cannot reason a person out of a position they did not first reason themselves into.

I can think of an unfortunate case in point.

271 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:38:23pm

re: #268 SpaceJesus

and thanks to everybody else too

272 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:44:48pm

re: #271 SpaceJesus

and thanks to everybody else too

Best of luck. Did you Google for a WIN 7 forum..There are some sharp cookies in them..Total geeks.. It’s worth just stopping work on the computer and do a little light reading for awhile. Relax and step back and drink some Tang.. And always remember this.. The bigger the hammer, the better the job.
:)

273 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:55:37pm

Perfect post over on TPM:

Our country is in debt because of the trickle down tax cuts.

For the 205 year before the unrealistic Republican tax cuts of 1981 we had a total debt of $1 trillion.

During those 205 years we paid for World Wars, the Korean War, having 500,000 troops in Vietnam, the space race, building the strongest military in the world, the New Deal, airports, bridges, and the interstate highway system.

In the 31 years since trickle down tax cuts we’ve added $15 trillion to the national debt

Do you see the connection or do you believe in coincidences?

It was no accident that the debt got as high as it is.

It was all part of the thirty year Republican strategy called “starve the beast,” by which Republicans have worked to reduce taxes and increase the national debt as large as possible – all to create the supposed “debt crisis” that we now face and to use that crisis to eliminate programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and a slew of other programs (EPA, SEC, Planned Parenthood, collective bargaining, etc.) that the Republican class has never been able to eliminate through the democratic process. This “starve the beast” Republican strategy has been openly acknowledged for years.

Now that most of those unrealistic tax cuts have become permanent they will eventually achieve their goals.

274 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:56:17pm

re: #273 Kragar

Pretty sloppy argumentation, IMO.

275 gwangung  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:58:39pm

re: #269 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

What I mean is regulatory hassle. You don’t have to outlaw something to make it virtually impossible to get. You just have to make it difficult enough and frustrating enough that people give up trying to get it.

If you want an example of that, try applying for social security disability. I don’t think it’s a straw man to say it would be a valid concern. But we might have to agree to disagree on this one :)

Should it be a crime if you don’t report medications stolen? (how about your cold medicines? I’ve never liked the idea of criminalizing the failure to report a crime. And I don’t like the idea of carving out an exception criminalizing a private citizen’s failure to report a stolen gun to the police.

For dangerous materials, such as chemical, biological and radioactive materials, you bet your darn bippy that you’re required to report if they’re lost or stolen. These, LIKE GUNS, are public hazards whose presence can plausibly be argued should be known to the wider public.

Far from being exceptional, these proposed ideas fit quite neatly into established laws and regulations.

276 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:58:48pm

re: #269 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

What I mean is regulatory hassle. You don’t have to outlaw something to make it virtually impossible to get. You just have to make it difficult enough and frustrating enough that people give up trying to get it.

If you want an example of that, try applying for social security disability. I don’t think it’s a straw man to say it would be a valid concern. But we might have to agree to disagree on this one :)

So you’re magically assuming that requiring people to record private sales is some incredibly dense regulatory barrier, and not something relatively simple. Why? Buying a car from someone requires you transfer the registration, and in a lot of places you register the sale with the DMV— this actually protects you from liability post the sale, so that’s nice.

I don’t get why you’re automatically assuming this would be an incredibly frustrating problem.

Should it be a crime if you don’t report medications stolen? (how about your cold medicines?

You see, guns are used to kill people and people steal them in order to kill other people, and so comparing them to things that are not for that is never going to work. It is always going to be a bad, and pretty much insulting, analogy.

I’ve never liked the idea of criminalizing the failure to report a crime. And I don’t like the idea of carving out an exception criminalizing a private citizen’s failure to report a stolen gun to the police.

But that’s not what it is. It’s not the failure to report the theft, it’s the failure to report the fact that a gun that was your responsibility has gone walksies.

The idea is pretty close to the above.

And what idea is that? It’s still massively vague to me. What is the militia for, whose in charge of it, how is it regulated? What level is it formed at? If it’s formed at the county level, get ready for the Maricopa County Militia.

And the militias up in Norcal in the areas that are heavily white supremacist, those should be cool.

Is it state level? Then what it is it for? Is this anything other than elaborate Kabuki to satisfy the wording of the 2nd amendment?

Because it is really, really, really obvious we don’t need militias in the same way that we did back during the formation of this country.

The language of the 2nd is archaic as fuck. I don’t like attacks on gun ownership based on ‘you should have to be in a militia’, because they make as little sense as ‘but I am in in a militia, it’s every person of military age’, or this new ‘we’ll form a bunch of groups and call ‘em militias and that’ll satisfy that little requirement’.

I’m not agitating to repeal the second amendment, but it would be great to clarify it, because the current language is wrong. Militias are not necessary for the protection of a free state.

277 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 9:58:55pm

Speaking of which:


Letters: Take evolution out of schools also

This is in regard to the report regarding the approval received for the removal of creationism and intelligent design from science courses and textbooks. I also applaud this action, but recommend that the theory of evolution be also removed from those science courses.

I believe that if our students’ performance in science is to be improved, they should only be exposed to solid scientific principles and experimentally proven theories. The theory of evolution has some holes in explaining, among other things, how the universe and life came into existence.

I believe the discussion of these theories belong in university courses on philosophy, religious studies and the like, not in science courses. Even then it has been reported that universities have let some professors go, and the Smithsonian let one of its scientists go, for writing articles supporting the idea of intelligent design. It amazes me that in the 21st century educators are behaving like the monks of the Spanish Inquisition in suppressing ideas that disagree with theirs.

Armando Corripio

professor emeritus

Baton Rouge

Someone needs to make a bumper sticker that says: Beware Emeriti

278 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:00:15pm

Rand Paul Has Arrived In Israel, And It Looks A Lot Like This Is His First Campaign Stop Of 2016

“…According to the itinerary for the trip, Paul has confirmed meetings this week with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Israeli President Shimon Peres, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, King Abdullah II, and other prominent Israeli politicians. For parts of the trip, Paul will also be accompanied by about 50 evangelical leaders and party activists, including the state GOP chairs of Iowa and South Carolina — two key early primary states.

The tour was funded by the conservative American Family Association, and organized by evangelical kingmaker David Lane and former pharmaceuticals executive Richard Roberts, a prominent member of the Orthodox Jewish community who donates heavily to the GOP.”

Funded by the AFA, isn’t that special.

279 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:00:23pm

re: #277 freetoken

Speaking of which:

Letters: Take evolution out of schools also

Someone needs to make a bumper sticker that says: Beware Emeriti

My dad just became emeritus and I told him he needs to find a subject to get cranky on.

280 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:02:32pm

re: #278 jaunte

Rand Paul Has Arrived In Israel, And It Looks A Lot Like This Is His First Campaign Stop Of 2016

Funded by the AFA, isn’t that special.

Its going to be funny as hell watching when the Evangelicals get irate at the long time libertarians for not hating homosexuals.

281 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:04:15pm

re: #280 Kragar

Sounds like Rand is trying to prove he’s not Ron. What remains is Aquabuddha.

282 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:09:45pm

re: #281 jaunte

Sounds like Rand is trying to prove he’s not Ron. What remains is Aquabuddha.

Ron’s view on drugs is crazy.. His party believes anything goes..We should just about be able to do anything we damn will please…
They say having a beer with Obama is great
I’ll bet snorting coke with Ron Paul is even better
/

283 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:13:45pm

re: #282 HoosierHoops

Ron has been a consummate PR man; say radically libertarian things that would get you noticed and had no chance of happening, but quietly make sure your constituents got as much federal money as you could bring home.
I think he probably advised Rand to go to a smaller conservative state than Texas, where it would be easier to get elected.

284 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:16:14pm

Halo-branded bullets? Microsoft said no way

Someone was making Halo-branded bullets, and Microsoft wasn’t happy about it. The bullets appeared in the show “Dual Survival” on the Discovery channel, and a gamer watching the show noticed the distinct Halo font and logo on the box of the ammunition, branded as “Halo-Point” rounds, before shooting an email to Kotaku.

The rounds are manufactured by US ammunition company Liberty Ammunition, and the “Halo-Point” brand is a pun on hollow-point rounds, a type of bullet that is designed to expand upon impact to prevent it from exiting the target. Even though Liberty Ammunition primarily produces ammo for military and other restricted use, the Halo-Point rounds appear to be for civil use; after all, what’s the point of branding your bullet in this way if only the military can use it?

It turns out that Microsoft didn’t work with Liberty to produce these rounds at all, and the logo and iconic Halo font was used without authorization from Microsoft. The company discovered that their brand was being used without permission late last year, and delivered a statement to Kotaku.

285 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:16:36pm

re: #282 HoosierHoops

Ron’s view on drugs is crazy.. His party believes anything goes..We should just about be able to do anything we damn will please…

/

Which makes this all the funnier:

286 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:18:01pm

re: #283 jaunte

Ron has been a consummate PR man; say radically libertarian things that would get you noticed and had no chance of happening, but quietly make sure your constituents got as much federal money as you could bring home.
I think he probably advised Rand to go to a smaller conservative state than Texas, where it would be easier to get elected.

yea..Some people call it PR and others call it crazy shit thinking.
Hey dude..how is the Art world going? You have lots of Talent.

287 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:20:22pm

re: #285 Kragar

Fischer’s meaning is a little unclear in that tweet, until you look at the one preceding:

288 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:21:28pm

re: #286 HoosierHoops

Thanks; I’ve been drawing a lot of Christmas presents lately.

289 Kragar  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:23:03pm
290 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:26:55pm

re: #288 jaunte

Thanks; I’ve been drawing a lot of Christmas presents lately.

I’ve taken the cook books to work and on road trips visiting friends around the country. Everybody always asks who did this cool art work?
You’ve been around..:)

291 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:27:48pm

re: #290 HoosierHoops

That’s great; good to hear they’re enjoying it!

292 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:30:43pm

James Fallows is hoping that President Obama is changing:

The Hagel Choice: An ‘Amish Give Up’ Moment for Obama?

[…]

Back during the debt-ceiling follies of 2011, I hoped, wished, and urged that President Obama would lay down a “this is bullshit” marker. He didn’t do it then, and everyone now understands that, mainly for better but occasionally for worse, such ultimatums go against his nature.

But to his credit, the president now seems ready to say “this is bullshit” about the de-legitimization campaign being waged against former Republican Senator Chuck Hagel as his choice for secretary of defense. It was waged odiously, in a way that deserves to be remembered, by Bret Stephens of the Wall Street Journal:

[…]


And by William Kristol and his writers at the Weekly Standard:

[…]

And weirdly by the Washington Post’s editorialists, who warned Obama that Hagel considered the Pentagon budget “bloated” (!) and was generally too much of a leftie for the job.

[…]

So as not to be wholly negative, Hagel’s critics have helpfully informed us that Paul Wolfowitz considers someone else a better choice. Were Dick Cheney and Paul Bremer not available for advice?

[…]

But the real question all along has been the president. Is this a fight he would engage, or one he would look for a way to avoid? If, as seems all but certain, he is about to nominate Hagel, that is a heartening sign. “‘This is bullshit,’ President says.”

Is this finally the point where President Obama will indeed look the neocons straight in the eye and say “Bullshit”?

293 jaunte  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:31:49pm

Well, time to rest a little before work begins again. Good night all.

294 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:34:16pm

re: #291 jaunte

That’s great; good to hear they’re enjoying it!

Hundreds of ladies at work have checked it out and stole whatever they wanted to try. I gotta tell you this..There were several fine looking exec’s When I showed the books them. they asked who did the the art work?
I would say..’ oh him..That’s a buddy of mine. ’
You’d do the same :)

295 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:58:55pm

Some Lully for your late night contemplations:

296 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 10:59:56pm

HAHAHAHA. Looks like someone knocked a few brain cells loose with all that headbanging over the years:

DAVE MUSTAINE Says Toxic ‘Chemtrails’ Are Real, Not A Wild Conspiracy Theory

297 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:03:38pm

Great news! I got front page on the stalker site..I think I’m going to win the web award! The insults are typical.. I don’t mind..It doesn’t matter if you insult me about turning center-right to center-left..How dumb you think I am or being a big loser. You know what bothers me? You Bringing my ex onto your blog..Look it’s been painful..But I told her when I got my inheritance that I was going to follow a dream and move to paradise and asked her to go with me..All her family and friends live here so she can’t. we became just friends and go out to have drinks and dancing every so often. We are good friends still.
I ask you to have a little heart and leave her out of this. And don’t forget..Vote Hoosierhoops!

298 prairiefire  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:11:09pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I’ve believed I’m going there for a long time.

Ahh, man. Buck up, you’d be wiser still not to believe that.

299 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:12:09pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I’ve believed I’m going there for a long time.

It’s hard to go to a place that doesn’t exist.

300 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:14:58pm

re: #299 Lidane

It’s hard to go to a place that doesn’t exist.

Then how do you explain Oklahoma?

301 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:18:47pm

re: #296 Lidane

Birthers by nature are conspiracy nuts.

302 Lidane  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:20:29pm

re: #300 HoosierHoops

Then how do you explain Oklahoma?

There’s an explanation for Oklahoma?

303 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:24:59pm

re: #302 Lidane

There’s an explanation for Oklahoma?

They had to put something between Kansas and Texas for all the wind to go into.

304 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:26:37pm

re: #302 Lidane

There’s an explanation for Oklahoma?

They passed an open carry law here. Me and my friends can walk the streets of Oklahoma packing heat.. No punks better mess with us.
//

305 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:27:43pm

re: #303 Feline Fearless Leader

One of the many wonders of American history is how “Indian Territory” was not thought of as much (except as a place to dump displaced Natives) until oil was discovered there.

306 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:28:09pm

re: #300 HoosierHoops

Then how do you explain Oklahoma?

Loki.

307 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:28:19pm

Never underestimate the power of petroleum to change things.

308 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:37:35pm

re: #307 freetoken

Never underestimate the power of petroleum to change things.

I’ve been checking out the history of Oklahoma while here. Watched the classic movie Oklahoma and the oil boom here. I got some books from campus bookstore about Oklahoma. My latest read while pooping is ’ On the Oil Lands ’ by William Ellis. It’s a big book but the B&W pics of the history of Oklahoma are simply amazing…

309 Four More Tears  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:45:17pm

Well. That was one interesting thread. Kind of relieved I wasn’t around for that one.

310 freetoken  Sun, Jan 6, 2013 11:55:03pm

Since we’re talking petroleum, this month’s newsletter from the North Dakota Geological Survey has an essay on the “oil” from the “Bakken”:

Petroleum Systems in the Williston Basin [PDF]


It includes some interesting material on how petroleum is formed, from what it originates, and how that relates to deposits in ND.

311 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:05:24am

re: #310 freetoken

Since we’re talking petroleum, this month’s newsletter from the North Dakota Geological Survey has an essay on the “oil” from the “Bakken”:

Petroleum Systems in the Williston Basin [PDF]

It includes some interesting material on how petroleum is formed, from what it originates, and how that relates to deposits in ND.

Bums me out..I inherited land in ND and the minerals rights. No minerals on are on it, Just rich farmland.. I’d like be be part of the boon. An oil man.
I had my lawyer set it up to be sold by a local Realtor and it sold pretty fast.
As Forrest Gump would say.. Just one less thing to worry about.

312 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:10:27am

re: #311 HoosierHoops

Land in farm country is going pretty quickly these days. Yesterday I posted a link about average Iowa farm land prices as of last Nov., showing how much they have increased year over year.

Oh, btw, also in that same issue of NDGS newsletter there was an article about drilling for kimberlite (source of diamonds) in far Northeast ND. While the results were negative, as the geologists point out ND is part of the very old central portion of the continent and thus probably has kimberlite dykes somewhere (you just have to find them.)

There are valuable resources just about anywhere - the problem is locating and producing them.

I’m surprised you sold the land. Did you ever visit it?

313 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:18:39am

re: #312 freetoken

Land in farm country is going pretty quickly these days. Yesterday I posted a link about average Iowa farm land prices as of last Nov., showing how much they have increased year over year.

Oh, btw, also in that same issue of NDGS newsletter there was an article about drilling for kimberlite (source of diamonds) in far Northeast ND. While the results were negative, as the geologists point out ND is part of the very old central portion of the continent and thus probably has kimberlite dikes somewhere (you just have to find them.)

There are valuable resources just about anywhere - the problem is locating and producing them.

I’m surprised you sold the land. Did you ever visit it?

Yea.. I got a good deal.. It’s nothing more than flat farm land in the middle of the state by Bismark.. It was in my Mother’s family for years.. They used to lease it out to wheat farmers and that paid her folks expenses but they all passed away when I was young. Mom just kept the deed in a safe for years and did nothing with it..

314 researchok  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:26:06am

Morning, all

315 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:27:15am

re: #314 researchok

Morning, all

Morning to you

316 researchok  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:33:41am

re: #295 freetoken

Beautiful, peaceful piece.

Favorited.

317 researchok  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:34:18am

re: #315 HoosierHoops

How’s life?

318 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:38:09am

re: #317 researchok

How’s life?

Life is awesome… Things are going great..We lost the Cotton bowl and that ended up as a bummer party at the end..
How are you?

319 researchok  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:43:19am

re: #318 HoosierHoops

Things are going OK- work is stubborn, a one step forward two step back kind of thing, but there is daylight at the end of this two and year old tunnel.

And not a minute too soon.

320 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 1:04:45am

One of Lully’s better known compositions, “Dies Irae”:

321 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 1:06:18am

This is final proof of Wayne LaPierre’s assertion that Obama is coming for our guns. He most certainly plans to repeal the 2nd and 22nd Amendments and then to start interring us in FEMA re-education camps.

We must offer armed resistance!!!


/

322 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 1:28:49am

re: #312 freetoken

Land in farm country is going pretty quickly these days. Yesterday I posted a link about average Iowa farm land prices as of last Nov., showing how much they have increased year over year.

Oh, btw, also in that same issue of NDGS newsletter there was an article about drilling for kimberlite (source of diamonds) in far Northeast ND. While the results were negative, as the geologists point out ND is part of the very old central portion of the continent and thus probably has kimberlite dykes somewhere (you just have to find them.)

There are valuable resources just about anywhere - the problem is locating and producing them.

I’m surprised you sold the land. Did you ever visit it?

People have been looking for kimberlite in central North America for years. IIRC, the Arkansas diamond locations are placer deposits and not in situ diamond locations. So somewhere north of there, and probably under a large heap of glacial work is the source of them.

323 stabby  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 1:29:12am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

Shrill cries about ‘the children’ do not impress me and they’ll carry less weight than Mr. Adler thinks. That well has run quite low.

It got filled back up.

324 researchok  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 1:29:17am

re: #320 freetoken

Really good example of religious music.

325 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 1:35:23am

There is a limit to what the government can constitutionally or realistically effect in the way of gun control.

What I would be pleased to see would be a toning down of the gun-fetishist culture of this country, namely abandoning the notion that an armed populace is somehow safer, as well as the notion that owning and carrying guns makes us more manly and patriotic.

And finally, it is time for politicians to lose their fear of the NRA and realize that it is a small lobbying group that represents the weapons industry and not even a majority of gun owners.

326 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 1:53:36am

re: #325 Sol Berdinowitz

There is a limit to what the government can constitutionally or realistically effect in the way of gun control.

What I would be pleased to see would be a toning down of the gun-fetishist culture of this country, namely abandoning the notion that an armed populace is somehow safer, as well as the notion that owning and carrying guns makes us more manly and patriotic.

And finally, it is time for politicians to lose their fear of the NRA and realize that it is a small lobbying group that represents the weapons industry and not even a majority of gun owners.

Sol..How crazy is it that we have skin heads and well armed militia and para military groups living in the woods jacking off to Red Dawn re-runs?

327 Kragar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 1:55:04am

40k Trivia:

Dies Irae

The Dies Irae (“Day of Wrath” in High Gothic) was a massive Imperator-class Battle Titan assigned to the Death’s Head Legion, the Legio Mortis, of the Adeptus Mechanicus’ Collegia Titanica which served during the final days of the Great Crusade as part of the Titan contingent assigned to the 63rd Expeditionary Fleet of the Warmaster Horus and his Sons of Horus Space Marine Legion. The Dies Irae was commanded by Princeps Esau Turnet and his two Moderati Primus were Titus Cassar and Jonah Aruken. When the Horus Heresy began during Horus’ massacre of the Traitor Legions’ remaining Loyalists at Istvaan III, Princeps Turnet and Jonah Aruken chose to side with the Warmaster while Moderati Cassar, a devotee of the early Lectio Divinitatus cult which believed in the divinity of the Emperor of Mankind, opposed Horus’ betrayal. Aruken killed Cassar and the Dies Irae ultimately took no action to stop the Massacre of Istvaan III when the Traitors’ virus-bombs began to fall upon the Loyalist Space Marines of the Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Death Guard and Emperor’s Children Legions. Ultimately, the Dies Irae joined the forces of the Dark Mechanicus and it and its crew were twisted and corrupted by their exposure to and willing service of Chaos. The Dies Irae met its end at the hand of Imperial Titans in 999.M41 during the 13th Black Crusade on the Forge World of Hydra Cordatus.

328 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 2:12:40am

re: #326 HoosierHoops

Sol..How crazy is it that we have skin heads and well armed militia and para military groups living in the woods jacking off to Red Dawn re-runs?

Well armed but not at all regulated…that is the part that bothers me.

And we have tolerated this gun culture for too long, politicians and public figures have held back andy for of criticism or rational debate for fear of retribution.

329 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 2:43:48am

re: #328 Sol Berdinowitz

Well armed but not at all regulated…that is the part that bothers me.

And we have tolerated this gun culture for too long, politicians and public figures have held back andy for of criticism or rational debate for fear of retribution.

Were you here earlier?
I swear somebody posted, ‘Cut me Micky! just cut me! ‘

330 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 2:46:30am

re: #329 HoosierHoops

Were you here earlier?
I swear somebody posted, ‘Cut me Micky! just cut me! ‘

Just joined the thread at no. 321…

331 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 3:03:57am

I believe we will continue to develop fair and strong laws with Gun Control because.. America was changed forever after Newtown. It effected every American’s attitude about gun control. Americans have begun the grass roots talk about this in their homes and churches. Changes will come. the nuts are claiming we are only reacting to a tragic event. There will be a lot of gun nuts that will fight against any changes at all. We will never convince them they are set in stone..The rest of us true Americans will advance the cause of a safer and better America and we will just out-vote them.

332 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 3:09:28am

re: #331 HoosierHoops

First there will be a lot of straw men set up gun control opponents to slap down. (“America can never eliminate guns or gun violence!”), then we will hear endless anecdotes about Americans defending themselves with their handguns “Granny Guns Down Intruder in Hallway”, and then the fearmongering will begin (“Obama wants to repeal the 2nd Amendment!”)

But the one thing that has come out is a clear picure that the NRA does not speak for a majority of Americans or even for a majority of gun owners, it is a lobbying institution of the gun industry that appeals to a minority of gun fanatics.

Politicians must learn to overcome their fear of retribution if they stand up to the NRA and start to speak reasonably about gun control.

333 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 3:59:50am

Interesting read For you lizards drinking a cup of coffee this fine morning:

How to control a brain
[Link: www.cnn.com…]

The hottest field in science this past decade has been neuroscience. That explosion in research, and our understanding of the human brain, was largely fueled by a new technology called functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) that became widely available in the 1990s. Well look out! Another technology-based neuroscience revolution is in the making, this one perhaps even bigger. The term to watch for in 2013 is “optogenetics.” It’s not a sexy term, but it is a very sexy technology.

334 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:02:46am

re: #333 HoosierHoops

That neurons can be made to be switchable via light is probably related to why the function of sight is so highly coupled to a big chunk of brains/memory. Our deep ancestors’ first “eyes” would be related to their development of a nervous system.

335 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:05:13am

Speaking of ancestors, since 23andMe dropped their price to $99 I’m thinking of getting a kit for myself and my mother.

In looking at their “community” forum on their site, it seems many people lament that calculated close relatives don’t respond to requests to share information.

My guess is that people are afraid of finding out dark secrets of the past (like being related to one of them), or perhaps they are afraid of a new moocher showing up on their doorstep.

336 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:11:40am

I just read CL’s comment in the top 10 and now I’m messed up for the rest of the day.

337 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:14:10am

And before we engage in the political issues of the day
Phil Pliat is leaving discovery and moving to Slate magazine’

Thank you
This is my last post for the Bad Astronomy Blog on Discover Magazine. As of today – Monday, November 12, 2012 – the blog has a new home at Slate magazine.
Thank you
It has been my pleasure and honor to be a Discover blogger for more than four years. Still, I remember my science teacher in third grade quoting Heraclitus to us: “Nothing is permanent except change”. That’s true today, of course, and just as obviously in the Age of the Internet the velocity of that change is accelerating.

Bookmark his new digs.
[Link: www.slate.com…]

338 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:14:46am

re: #337 HoosierHoops

I heard as much. Maybe they will pay him better?

339 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:21:21am

re: #336 Vicious Babushka

I just read CL’s comment in the top 10 and now I’m messed up for the rest of the day.

whoa.. I hadn’t read that..

340 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:26:37am

Just imagine… if some genetics company tells you that AFA’s Bryan Fischer is your long lost uncle.

Yeah, that’s scary. No wonder people don’t want to share their data.

341 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:27:56am

Wingnuts have discovered another eebil plot against them: #TwitterFollowbackGulag

I arf you not.

342 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:29:30am

re: #338 freetoken

I heard as much. Maybe they will pay him better?

He sure has become a star the last few years. I think his bank account is doing quite well.

343 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:37:09am

re: #340 freetoken

Just imagine… if some genetics company tells you that AFA’s Bryan Fischer is your long lost uncle.

Yeah, that’s scary. No wonder people don’t want to share their data.

It would be like finding out your new church pastor is a hateful crazy drunk uncle at the end of the Thanksgiving table with no pants on talking to himself.

344 A Mom Anon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:39:40am

re: #91 Stanghazi

I know.

I’ve had kind of a rough week. Dad had a quadruple bypass and is still in the hospital. My son is headed off to vocational rehab school at the end of the month, we just got the paperwork on Friday. So, I’m sitting here kind of weepy and sad that my “baby” (who will be 19 soon)is going away from home for the first time.

And then I read CL’s comment. And I realize that all those parents in CT will never feel that sense of pride mixed with sadness that their little ones would have brought them as teens as they move on to the next part of their lives. Fuck. And as much as I’ve tried to like and engage D_F here, I really wanted to scream and throw shit at him for that. Children are SUPPOSED to outlive their parents, damnit.

A right to own a gun NEVER TRUMPS MY RIGHT NOT TO GET SHOT. How the fuck is this not part of the conversation?

345 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:45:19am


Except for @StoopidProof, he is a LEFTIST INFILTRAITOR BAN HIM!1!ty

346 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:50:21am

re: #343 HoosierHoops

It would be like finding out your new church pastor is a hateful crazy drunk uncle at the end of the Thanksgiving table with no pants on talking to himself.

Uh..Pastor Fisher why are you Tweeting so much? How ‘bout another bottle of wine? It’s from the Jesus label. And it’s not the cheap stuff either.
You OK now? You need anything else? No?
OK kids let’s all go out and play for awhile! let’s leave Pastor alone for awhile.

347 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:53:47am

Wingnuts are promoting this story as an example of how OWNING GUNZ STOPS HOME INVADERS!11

I have some questions about this story.

1. Gun owner shot the intruder 5 times why is he still alive?
2. Why did the intruder go all the way into the house to the attic hiding place to confront the gun owner? Usually burglars just want to grab stuff and GTFO.

I think the Gun Owner is telling fibs, in addition to being a really crappy shot.

348 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:54:28am

re: #346 HoosierHoops

People are kind of funny. Many really are hiding from relatives.

349 A Mom Anon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:57:11am

re: #296 Lidane

It wasn’t the headbanging so much as the heroin. It’s sad really.

350 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 4:59:35am

re: #297 HoosierHoops

Great news! I got front page on the stalker site..I think I’m going to win the web award! The insults are typical.. I don’t mind..It doesn’t matter if you insult me about turning center-right to center-left..How dumb you think I am or being a big loser. You know what bothers me? You Bringing my ex onto your blog..Look it’s been painful..But I told her when I got my inheritance that I was going to follow a dream and move to paradise and asked her to go with me..All her family and friends live here so she can’t. we became just friends and go out to have drinks and dancing every so often. We are good friends still.
I ask you to have a little heart and leave her out of this. And don’t forget..Vote Hoosierhoops!

I have never been to the stalker site.

351 A Mom Anon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:00:26am

Alrighty Lizards, I gotta get the kid moving and get up to the hospital this morning to visit Dad. And then zoom back home to make a ton of phone calls and tackle Mt. Laundry. Have a good Monday people.

352 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:14:18am

re: #350 Vicious Babushka

I have never been to the stalker site.

I’m not sure I have. Back in the day around 2007 when everything started to blow up there were several spin-off sites of the unhappy. Since then I’ve ignored them. They probably ignore me, too, which is all the better.

353 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:19:00am

re: #301 freetoken

Birthers by nature are conspiracy nuts.

Yes, but Dave Mustaine was a conspiracist before he was a Birther. His conspiracism started to well up while george W. Bush was president, after Mustaine got religion. This was while Mustaine was working past nerve damage that had threatened to end his career, and if he hadn’t gone nutty in the process the story of his recovery would actually be inspiring.

354 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:19:26am

re: #350 Vicious Babushka

I have never been to the stalker site.

I don’t go there much except to check out the crazy soup.
My fault I stirred it up because I posted about their childish LGF awards. Totally Junior high stuff.. Charles said some heads were going to explode and sure enough not 5 minutes later I got my own page up. I also asked them to give me my first web award. I’ll print that sucker off and frame it in the guest bathroom so my friends can laugh while they are peeing.
I know I really shouldn’t be poking the Hornets nest..So until my Victory at the polls I should be hanging out on the down low.
/

355 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:28:56am

re: #354 HoosierHoops

I don’t go there much except to check out the crazy soup.
My fault I stirred it up because I posted about their childish LGF awards. Totally Junior high stuff.. Charles said some heads were going to explode and sure enough not 5 minutes later I got my own page up. I also asked them to give me my first web award. I’ll print that sucker off and frame it in the guest bathroom so my friends can laugh while they are peeing.
I know I really shouldn’t be poking the Hornets nest..So until my Victory at the polls I should be hanging out on the down low.
/

It is good to mock the Stalkers. It helps remind us that they are not to be taken seriously.

356 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:30:09am

re: #355 Dark_Falcon

It is good to mock the Stalkers. It helps remind us that they are not to be taken seriously.

But they totally love it whenever they are mentioned here.

357 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:36:14am

re: #356 Vicious Babushka

But they totally love it whenever they are mentioned here.

That’s why you mock the goobers occasionally and then move on. Don’t really pay attention to haters, but make sure they know they can’t faze you.

358 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:37:51am

re: #356 Vicious Babushka

But they totally love it whenever they are mentioned here.

yea.. I shouldn’t have said anything about them and rarely do anyway.
Waste of time overall. I just couldn’t help but to ask those clowns to vote for me. I’m pretty sure I’ll win in a landslide. Vote HoosierHoops!

359 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:39:27am

re: #358 HoosierHoops

yea.. I shouldn’t have said anything about them and rarely do anyway.
Waste of time overall. I just couldn’t help but to ask those clowns to vote for me. I’m pretty sure I’ll win in a landslide. Vote HoosierHoops!

You can’t win, Hoops. I’m from Chicago, so people are sure to vote early and often for me.

//

360 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 5:46:35am

re: #359 Dark_Falcon

You can’t win, Hoops. I’m from Chicago, so people are sure to vote early and often for me.

//

But I now hold the popular vote.
Too bad my folks aren’t here anymore..I could call them and tell them I won a web award.. That’s great son! what did you win for? Oh just another popularity contest on the Internet Mom…
I’m so proud of you son.. Are you and your little friends going out to celebrate? Well I hadn’t thought of that Mom.. Good call.

361 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:07:00am

the premise of the stalker site seems to be that we all bow and kowtow and scrape to Charles just to be allowed to continue to post on his blogsite, that we are sycophants and traitors and…WE GET TO POST HERE AND THEY DON’T

362 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:10:25am

Meet the newest member of the Derp List.

Brain cleanser.

363 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:14:43am

re: #362 Vicious Babushka

Meet the newest member of the Derp List.

[Embedded content]

Brain cleanser.

364 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:25:04am

Good old Monkeys
____ ____
When I saw their face
Now I’m a believer
Not a trace of freedom
I can’t speak the truth
I’m in tweeter Gulag yeah yeah Yeah
yeah gulag Twitter
There’s nothing I can do
I’m a believer yeah yeah yeah
I’m a believer
I can’t live here.. I can’t breath here
no matter what I do
Now I’m a believer yeah yeah yeah
Oh I’m a believer..

365 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:30:06am

re: #364 HoosierHoops

Good old Monkeys
____ ____
When I saw their face
Now I’m a believer
Not a trace of freedom
I can’t speak the truth
I’m in tweeter Gulag yeah yeah Yeah
yeah gulag Twitter
There’s nothing I can do
I’m a believer yeah yeah yeah
I’m a believer
I can’t live here.. I can’t breath here
no matter what I do
Now I’m a believer yeah yeah yeah
Oh I’m a believer..

Here’s something good that’s a bit newer. This band’s been compared to Queen a good bit. Take a listen and tell me what you think:

366 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:30:13am

re: #362 Vicious Babushka

Besides, RuPual is six foot four and used to dance for like four hours a day, back in his prime, and could have kicked the vast majority of straight guy’s asses without breaking much of a sweat.

367 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:33:43am

re: #366 Obdicut

Besides, RuPual is six foot four and used to dance for like four hours a day, back in his prime, and could have kicked the vast majority of straight guy’s asses without breaking much of a sweat.

He’s black though, and so his ability to do that proves how much a threat proves how much of a threat to America he is.

/Patrick Pukecannon

368 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:37:12am

I read an article that pointed out that those people who are obsessed with external signs of “manliness” or “patriotism” are those who have no idea what these concepts truly mean, that is why they are so wrapped up in symbols and appearances.

Remember the conservative head assplosions over the advertisement showing a mother painting her son’s toenails pink? (ZOMG!!!ll!lty, she is turning him into a homo!!!)

One could say the same for their approach to economics: they have no idea how it works, they just assume that anyone who is making tons of money is “doing it right” and is to be admired and emulated, while those who criticize them in any way are jealous class warriors who want to “punish success”

They do not ask how this money is being made, or whether they are simply dumping the health, social and environmental costs off on public down the line while pocketing the profits.

369 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:44:09am

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away
When tweeter was a friend to me
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

Suddenly, I’m not half to man I used to be,
There’s a Gulag shadow hanging over me.
Oh, yesterday came suddenly.

Why I had to go I don’t know they wouldn’t say.
I said something wrong, now I long for yesterday.

Yesterday, Tweeting was such an easy game to play.
Now I need a place to hide away.
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

370 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:46:42am

I was born in a cyberhurricane
And I howled like a jackass without a brain
But I’m outside now, in fact I’m an ass
But I’m outside now, Derpin Jack Flash I’m an ass, ass, ass!

371 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:46:45am

re: #368 Sol Berdinowitz

I read an article that pointed out that those people who are obsessed with external signs of “manliness” or “patriotism” are those who have no idea what these concepts truly mean, that is why they are so wrapped up in symbols and appearances.

Remember the conservative head assplosions over the advertisement showing a mother painting her son’s toenails pink? (ZOMG!!!ll!lty, she is turning him into a homo!!!)

One could say the same for their approach to economics: they have no idea how it works, they just assume that anyone who is making tons of money is “doing it right” and is to be admired and emulated, while those who criticize them in any way are jealous class warriors who want to “punish success”

They do not ask how this money is being made, or whether they are simply dumping the health, social and environmental costs off on public down the line while pocketing the profits.

There are plenty of conservative experts in macro economics, but we don’t see them as often here. This is because they are less likely to be to be flinging red meat to the online part of the conservative base. They’re more found on places like National Review or the Wall Street Journal, with pieces that feature more detailed arguments than rage boys would find enjoyable reading.

372 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:47:46am

re: #368 Sol Berdinowitz

One could say the same for their approach to economics: they have no idea how it works, they just assume that anyone who is making tons of money is “doing it right” and is to be admired and emulated, while those who criticize them in any way are jealous class warriors who want to “punish success”

They do not ask how this money is being made, or whether they are simply dumping the health, social and environmental costs off on public down the line while pocketing the profits.

Absolutely. How you make your money is a lot more important than how much money you make, but conservatives in this country have lost sight of that. They’ve lost their respect for the working man completely.

373 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:49:03am

re: #372 Obdicut

Absolutely. How you make your money is a lot more important than how much money you make, but conservatives in this country have lost sight of that. They’ve lost their respect for the working man completely.

It’s all about “job creators”. They forget that working people also help to create jobs at local businesses and pay taxes to employ teachers, policement, firemen, etc.

But we have heard that these are not real “jobs”…

374 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:49:13am

Mornin’ citizens.

375 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:49:45am

re: #366 Obdicut

Besides, RuPual is six foot four and used to dance for like four hours a day in heels, back in his prime, and could have kicked the vast majority of straight guy’s asses without breaking much of a sweat.

Four hours a day in heels. Even a lot of women can’t do that. The guy is a lot stronger than the bigots and homophobes would like to believe.

376 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:51:42am

re: #373 Sol Berdinowitz

It’s all about “job creators”. They forget that working people also help to create jobs at local businesses and pay taxes to employ teachers, policement, firemen, etc.

But we have heard that these are not real “jobs”…

The real “job creators” are the consumers who BUY STUFF.

377 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:52:21am

re: #369 HoosierHoops

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away
When tweeter was a friend to me
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

Suddenly, I’m not half to man I used to be,
There’s a Gulag shadow hanging over me.
Oh, yesterday Twit Gulag came suddenly.

Why I had to go I don’t know they wouldn’t say.
I said something wrong, now I long for yesterday.

Yesterday, Tweets were such an easy game to play.
Now I need a place to hide away.
Oh, I believe in yesterday.

Slight alterations. Simply adding ‘Gulag’ to the line makes someone singing the parody trip over the line. Better to pull ‘yesterday’ from the last line of the stanza in favor of ‘Twit Gulag’, which can be sung effectively in that location. I also replaced ‘Tweeting was’ with ‘Tweets were’. This is just better fitting the words to the notes.

To be truly effective song parody you have to be able to sing it.

378 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:53:15am

re: #371 Dark_Falcon

There are plenty of conservative experts in macro economics, but we don’t see them as often here. This is because they are less likely to be to be flinging red meat to the online part of the conservative base. They’re more found on places like National Review or the Wall Street Journal, with pieces that feature more detailed arguments than rage boys would find enjoyable reading.

Trickle-down economics, voodoo economics, had already been discredited by the time Bush Senior ran. Deregulation of the financial market clearly has also been shown to be a fucking terrible idea. National Review was always a pretty shitty place, and although it’s funny watching them eject white nationalist after white nationalist, using it as a go-to site for anything is silly.

One of the main problems with conservatives and economics in the modern day is very much something that Ralphieboy pointed out— they’re bound by ideology. The biggest economic issue facing the US is climate change, but conservative economists aren’t allowed to talk about that. The second biggest issue is the growing wealth disparity, which is dangerous from an economic as well as a societal perspective, but conservative economists can’t talk about that or, if they do, they have to pretend the whole ‘job creator’ thing isn’t obviously hollow. Instead, conservative economists these days mainly pretend the debt is the biggest issue, despite this being a completely-invented-since-Obama-was-elected issue for them, and despite the fact that right now it’d be cheaper for the US to borrow money than spend tax income on many things because US bonds are selling and basically 0% interest.

379 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:54:33am

re: #371 Dark_Falcon

There are plenty of conservative experts in macro economics, but we don’t see them as often here. This is because they are less likely to be to be flinging red meat to the online part of the conservative base. They’re more found on places like National Review or the Wall Street Journal, with pieces that feature more detailed arguments than rage boys would find enjoyable reading.

Sorry, shit with a coat of gold-colored spray paint remains shit (and national review’s coating is almost all peeled off anyway).

380 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:54:37am

re: #377 Dark_Falcon

Slight alterations. Simply adding ‘Gulag’ to the line makes someone singing the parody trip over the line. Better to pull ‘yesterday’ from the last line of the stanza in favor of ‘Twit Gulag’, which can be sung effectively in that location. I also replaced ‘Tweeting was’ with ‘Tweets were’. This is just better fitting the words to the notes.

To be truly effective song parody you have to be able to sing it.

good clean words for a rewrite..

381 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:55:05am

*FACE PALM*


Still pushing this ridiculous meme, Sandra Fluke *NEVER* asked for “free birth control” but all the wingnuts blindly believe it because the Fat Viagra/Oxycontin-Addicted Hate Ranter said so.

382 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:56:42am

re: #373 Sol Berdinowitz

It’s all about “job creators”. They forget that working people also help to create jobs at local businesses and pay taxes to employ teachers, policement, firemen, etc.

But we have heard that these are not real “jobs”…

One phrase I very, very, very rarely here any ‘conservative’ economists utter is ‘the velocity of money’. It’s weird, because it’s one of the most important concepts in capitalism; in order for their to be demand, for a robust economy, money can’t get stuck. If one guy in town owns all the houses, all the grocery stores, etc, then the economy is going to stick because money will continue to accrue to him, making it both harder for anyone else to start a business from lack of capital and spending the overall expenditure in the town because he won’t buy as much stuff as ordinary people would.

This is why the increasing wealth disparity is so bad for the economy: The economy flourishes not when individuals have massive amounts of money, but when money is flowing quickly, going from one person to the next with rapidity. And we have the opposite— the velocity of money is slowing, as more and more accrues to the already-very-wealthy, who can’t spend it fast enough even if they wanted to and whose investments are only rarely into new businesses that produce jobs.

383 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:59:11am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. While much of the ink and punditry are busy hashing out the ramifications of a Chuck Hagel nomination for Sec. Def., the President has announced John Brennan for DCI. That’s arguably a more important posting since the agency is in flux about its responsibilities and mission. Counterterrorism is currently perceived as the most important mission, but ongoing concerns about Iran, North Korea, China, and Russia require manpower and resources. Dealing with all those issues, and trying to stay ahead of the news (not being blindsided by acts like the Arab Spring, recognizing how feeble autocrats in the Middle East are, or how resilient some of those regimes are (Syria) despite the odds).

Brennan’s nomination seems to be the easier of the proposed nominations. Hagel’s nomination has generated lots of heat, particularly about his stance regarding Israel. Some of what his critics say about Hagel might actually be true, but does it matter? Hagel would not be in charge of diplomacy, that’s Sec. State. He would have to chart a course for the Defense Department - addressing manpower and equipment needs going forward. That means where and how to spend limited resources.

That means figuring out the right mix to deal with current and future threats. Regional stability in the ME plays into that, but the Hagel discussion about Israel is a smokescreen for other issues in play - namely that some on the right want to cast Obama as anti-Israel even though his policies to date have been anything but. Israel hasn’t been forced to negotiate against its will, Israel has been backed up by the US on missile defense (deploying Patriot systems, assistance with Iron Dome, etc.).

The questions that need to be put to Hagel in confirmation hearings are what he considers to be threats, the right mix on defense spending, the role of UAVs (and who should have their finger on the trigger - CIA or DoD, etc.), and how the US would deal with meeting its military commitments to our allies, one of which is Israel. He would have to address the drawdown in Afghanistan and what he perceives as threats to regional stability in places like Syria and Iran. Indeed, these are questions that Brennan would have to address as well.

Those are legitimate questions, and deserve scrutiny.

384 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 6:59:36am

re: #381 Vicious Babushka

*FACE PALM*

[Embedded content]


Still pushing this ridiculous meme, Sandra Fluke *NEVER* asked for “free birth control” but all the wingnuts blindly believe it because the Fat Viagra/Oxycontin-Addicted Hate Ranter said so.

You’re talking about the same people who will look you in the eye and tell you with a straight face that Barack Obama is a far-left socialist and a Seekrit Mooslim Kenyan Usurper and Nazi overlord.

They’re not the brightest bulbs in the box.

385 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:01:32am

re: #384 Lidane

You’re talking about the same people who will look you in the eye and tell you with a straight face that Barack Obama is a far-left socialist and a Seekrit Mooslim Kenyan Usurper and Nazi overlord.

They’re not the brightest bulbs in the box.

Where do they get this shit from? Or just because it has been repeated to often it’s accepted as TROOF.

386 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:03:42am

re: #383 lawhawk

Good article about the Hagel nomination over at Buzzfeed

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com…]

387 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:13:11am

re: #378 Obdicut

Actually, income inequality is being addressed on NR:

But at a certain level of national affluence, relative status starts to matter to people. Think of the American economy in terms of the Mercedes-Benz lineup: If you are struggling to get by, your thinking about owning a car is going to be mostly utilitarian — you need something inexpensive and reliable to get you to work, to take the kids to school, etc. You’ll care a great deal about fuel economy, insurance expenses, and other factors in the total cost of ownership. But if you’re in the market for a new Mercedes, basic performance, quality, and reliability are going to be assumed, and the differences between models are not for the most part utilitarian: A $36,000 C-Class will get you to work just as effectively as a $90,000 S-Class, and it’s a great deal more utilitarian and convenient than a $200,000 SLS. But those gull-wing doors must speak to somebody’s soul, otherwise Mercedes would not be able to sell the SLS for $200,000. And if a C-Class driver feels a little pang of desire when he pulls up next to an S-Class, that is not a sign of a character defect on his part: Aspiration is not the same thing as envy. But from an absolute point of view, figuring out how to move from an entry-level Mercedes to a high-end Mercedes is a pretty high-class problem to have.

Likewise, figuring out how to move up in one of the richest countries in the world is a problem that most of the people walking the earth today would love to have. Our appreciation of that fact sometimes encourages conservatives to in effect tell voters to eat their vegetables, because don’t you know kids are starving in China. At the same time, our celebration of capitalist successes and our appreciation of the vital role played by what we now call “job creators” (unfortunate phrase) blinds us to some important facts. Bill Buckley was no practitioner of class warfare, but he detected that there was something distasteful going on in a great many corporate boardrooms, and that in many cases those gigantic executive paychecks were utterly unrelated to business performance: “What dismays is the utter lack of class in such businesses and businessmen here parading their skills in distortion,” he wrote. “What is going on is phony. It is shoddy, it is contemptible, and it is philosophically blasphemous.” Such facts sting all the more when the middle class and the poor are facing diminished prospects and net worths savaged by the housing collapse.

The poor aren’t poor because the rich are rich, and conservatives of course have to keep reiterating this fact. But neither is it universally the case that the poor are poor because they are lazy or lack ambition, and while the position of the American middle class is the envy of much of the world, that position is tenuous for many Americans, and their anxiety is not to be dismissed lightly. There is of course a very large dose of unhealthy envy in our national discussion about inequality, but nobody who has seriously examined the relationship between politics and the economy (or real-world corporate governance, for that matter) could believe that merit and merit alone accounts for the diverging prospects of the very well off and the rest.

388 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:15:25am

Morning. So I go over to #TGDN right now and see that the top image there is this:

Retweeted 175 times. It’s a bogus quote:

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.

The real quote:

A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.

I think it’s fitting that they’re peddling BS.

GO VIRAL!!! Derp.

389 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:16:13am

re: #386 HoosierHoops

Good article about the Hagel nomination over at Buzzfeed

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com…]

Hagel will be a good pick. And a little change in policy is long overdue. You can only rattle your sabres for so long. Having a Secretary of Defense who understands first hand the cost of war on the troops is a good thing.

390 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:16:56am

re: #382 Obdicut

One phrase I very, very, very rarely here any ‘conservative’ economists utter is ‘the velocity of money’. It’s weird, because it’s one of the most important concepts in capitalism; in order for their to be demand, for a robust economy, money can’t get stuck. If one guy in town owns all the houses, all the grocery stores, etc, then the economy is going to stick because money will continue to accrue to him, making it both harder for anyone else to start a business from lack of capital and spending the overall expenditure in the town because he won’t buy as much stuff as ordinary people would.

This is why the increasing wealth disparity is so bad for the economy: The economy flourishes not when individuals have massive amounts of money, but when money is flowing quickly, going from one person to the next with rapidity. And we have the opposite— the velocity of money is slowing, as more and more accrues to the already-very-wealthy, who can’t spend it fast enough even if they wanted to and whose investments are only rarely into new businesses that produce jobs.

This is also why you have to have a certain amount of wealth distribution, either from time to time via the guillotine, or ongoing via taxation. Eventually you just get stuck in a situation where one guy has a diamond-encrusted toilet and everyone else is eating bark, at which point people get the knives out*.

* Obviously a sufficiently well-paid and morally-deprived security force in the middle can stave off the inevitable for a while.

391 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:17:18am

re: #387 Dark_Falcon

No, that’s them dodging the issue.

Likewise, figuring out how to move up in one of the richest countries in the world is a problem that most of the people walking the earth today would love to have.

It’s not about ‘moving up’. They don’t get it. It’s about having even the people at the bottom have a comfortable life. It’s really weird— even when they’re trying to write this sensible article, they just don’t get it, they can’t put it anything other than competitive terms.

The poor aren’t poor because the rich are rich, and conservatives of course have to keep reiterating this fact. But neither is it universally the case that the poor are poor because they are lazy or lack ambition, and while the position of the American middle class is the envy of much of the world, that position is tenuous for many Americans, and their anxiety is not to be dismissed lightly.

The sad part is that this is basically a really edgy statement for a conservative to take, and it even leads off with a strawman.

392 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:18:22am

re: #388 Gus

Morning. So I go over to #TGDN right now and see that the top image there is this:

[Embedded content]

Retweeted 175 times. It’s a bogus quote:

The real quote:

I think it’s fitting that they’re peddling BS.

GO VIRAL!!! Derp.

Basically what Washington is saying here is simply “Mongo need military industry.”

393 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:18:29am

re: #387 Dark_Falcon

Comedy. To summarize: “The American Dream is dead and we are now an oligarchy, we just have to figure out a way of saying it that doesn’t offend our sensibilities.”

394 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:19:52am

re: #388 Gus

If I recall correctly, you’ve collected a lot of these “derp quote” vs. “real quote” items. We can haz Page for tweeting purposes? :)

395 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:20:01am

re: #393 iossarian

Don’t down-ding me, dude. That’s your brain trust admitting that the rich do better in the US than the poor, and that this is unfair.

396 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:20:01am

re: #387 Dark_Falcon

Basically, Dark, after reading that article, the author is convinced that Conservatives just need to change their tone, that all their policies are actually a-ok wonderful.

And comments like this by him:

Conservatives see every individual as a potential butcher or baker, but progressives see him as a mouth to feed.

Are insulting, stupid, and completely divorced from reality.

397 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:20:01am

re: #389 darthstar

Maybe that will also signal a renewed effort to deal with the veterans once they’re back home - not only those who suffered physical injuries, but PTSD and are facing all kinds of issues.

After all, last year more members of the armed forces died in suicides than they did in enemy action.

398 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:20:47am

re: #394 Interesting Times

If I recall correctly, you’ve collected a lot of these “derp quote” vs. “real quote” items. We can haz Page for tweeting purposes? :)

Maybe. :) Not at the moment though.

399 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:21:48am

re: #392 Gus

Basically what Washington is saying here is simply “Mongo need military industry.”

No, he was also saying that arms alone do not decide battles. Discipline is also crucial, and the Revolutionary War proved the truth of that time and again. The only fully effective militias were those that had a core of army veterans who could impose effective order and keep the rest of the men steady under fire.

400 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:22:04am

re: #388 Gus

Morning. So I go over to #TGDN right now and see that the top image there is this:

[Embedded content]

Retweeted 175 times. It’s a bogus quote:

The real quote:

I think it’s fitting that they’re peddling BS.

GO VIRAL!!! Derp.

The biggest issue on #TGDN right now is #FollowBackGulag

401 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:22:09am

I would like to remind everyone that it used to be completely fucking uncontroversial to stimulate the economy with government spending during a recession. Only the Randites and the Paulbots used to object to it.

The modern position of the GOP and ‘conservatives’ that spending during a recession is bad was borrowed from the Randites. It is not an original ‘conservative’ position. It is a radical, extreme position.

402 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:24:04am

I found a heavily wrapped tube of something squishy in my fridge that I don’t recognize and my wife doesn’t either. Beginning the unwrapping now. For science!

403 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:24:29am

re: #397 lawhawk

Maybe that will also signal a renewed effort to deal with the veterans once they’re back home - not only those who suffered physical injuries, but PTSD and are facing all kinds of issues.

After all, last year more members of the armed forces died in suicides than they did in enemy action.

I think we’re going to see a push for more social programs for veterans and private citizens this year. All the GOP talk about cutting entitlement spending is bluster. Boehner will have to work with Democrats and moderate Republicans to get anything done and he now knows it. As soon as he accepts it we’ll start to see legislation other than Bachmann’s repeated repeals of the ACA coming to a vote.

404 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:25:31am

re: #397 lawhawk

Maybe that will also signal a renewed effort to deal with the veterans once they’re back home - not only those who suffered physical injuries, but PTSD and are facing all kinds of issues.

After all, last year more members of the armed forces died in suicides than they did in enemy action.

That effort is already being made. The military has focused strongly on PTSD as has DoVA. But its slow going and it is still facing the immense head wind born of the fact that admitting you have a problem can carry serious consequences most veterans understandably wish to avoid.

405 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:26:17am

re: #400 Vicious Babushka

What do the letters TGDN stand for? Twitter Gulag Dick Noses?

406 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:26:25am

re: #402 Obdicut

I found a heavily wrapped tube of something squishy in my fridge that I don’t recognize and my wife doesn’t either. Beginning the unwrapping now. For science!

I hope you are suited up in hazmat turnout!

407 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:28:27am

Wingnut Derp of the Day:

EBT cards are being used at strip clubs, liquor stores, sex shops!

POOR PEOPLE CAN’T BE TRUSTED! STOP ALL WELFARE!1!

408 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:28:35am

re: #387 Dark_Falcon

By the way, I went back and down-dinged that comment, not because of the poster, but because of the content. In my general hilarity at the cluelessness of the author, I had failed to notice the absolute gem in the first paragraph, where he (of course it’s a he) decides that the relative struggles of the rich and poor in the US are best thought about in terms of which Mercedes one should purchase.

Not in my fucking neck of the woods they aren’t.

409 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:29:33am

re: #404 Dark_Falcon

That effort is already being made. The military has focused strongly on PTSD as has DoVA. But its slow going and it is still facing the immense head wind born of the fact that admitting you have a problem can carry serious consequences most veterans understandably wish to avoid.

I hope you’re not trying to imply that individual veterans’ own sense of pride is keeping them from accepting help. We’ve had this discussion before. The existing programs are mere shadows of what they should be. The more outreach there is, the fewer suicides there will be. The current programs are completely insufficient to meet the needs of returning troops.

410 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:30:45am

re: #405 darthstar

What do the letters TGDN stand for? Twitter Gulag Dick Noses?

Twitter Gulag Defense Network. It is a group of ‘conservative’ people on Twitter who believe that they can stop themselves from being sent to the “Twitter Gulag” by banding together and can further use ‘liberal’s tactics’ to get those left of center ‘sent to the Gulag’ instead.

411 Mattand  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:34:10am

re: #388 Gus

Morning. So I go over to #TGDN right now and see that the top image there is this:

[Embedded content]

Retweeted 175 times. It’s a bogus quote:

The real quote:

I think it’s fitting that they’re peddling BS.

GO VIRAL!!! Derp.

I think Prudence is going to be a great source of comedy:

412 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:34:19am

re: #410 Dark_Falcon

I think dick noses is more apt. People take their twitter way too seriously. If you’re joining a “defense network” on a free social media service then you’re living in a fantasy world.

413 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:34:32am

It is definitely venison sausage. Fresh venison sausage. Handmade venison sausage.

Now to figure out how it got in our fridge. I’m guessing our friend who we had cat-sit left it here. Or it was part of the tons of food my wife got laden down with by her family and she didn’t notice it.

Now for taste-testing.

414 BongCrodny  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:35:07am

re: #407 Vicious Babushka

Wingnut Derp of the Day:

EBT cards are being used at strip clubs, liquor stores, sex shops!

A database of 200 million Electronic Benefit Transfer records from January 2011 to July 2012, obtained by The Post through a Freedom of Information request, showed welfare recipients using their EBT cards to make dozens of cash withdrawals at ATMs inside Hank’s Saloon in Brooklyn; the Blue Door Video porn shop in the East Village; The Anchor, a sleek SoHo lounge; the Patriot Saloon in TriBeCa; and Drinks Galore, a liquor distributor in The Bronx. The state Office of Temporary and Disability Assistance (OTDA), which oversees the “cash assistance program,” even lists some of these welfare-ready ATMs on its Web site.

Dozens? Out of 200 million?

Clearly, this program is riddled with fraud and must be gotten rid of!

415 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:35:38am

re: #411 Mattand

I think Prudence is going to be a great source of comedy:

[Embedded content]

Since god was everywhere, everywhen, God was also present when I wrote a short story about the sex life of clowns.

416 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:35:44am

re: #409 darthstar

I hope you’re not trying to imply that individual veterans’ own sense of pride is keeping them from accepting help. We’ve had this discussion before. The existing programs are mere shadows of what they should be. The more outreach there is, the fewer suicides there will be. The current programs are completely insufficient to meet the needs of returning troops.

No, I’m not trying to imply that. What I am saying is that seeking help for mental distress can impact how one is perceived by others, and that change in perception can have negative consequences.

An example: Instead of the managers saying “It’s good that Jerry went to get help for PTSD. Being on active duty in Iraq was very hard on him and it’ll help his performance to have gotten treatment.”, they’d more likely be saying: “We need to see if we can get Jerry out of here. If he’s got PTSD he could be a time bomb for all we know. It’s the people with mental issues who shoot up offices.”

417 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:36:15am

re: #411 Mattand

I think Prudence is going to be a great source of comedy:

[Embedded content]

Amazing how this omnipresent and all powerful God is only present in selective circumstances.

418 Mattand  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:36:25am

re: #405 darthstar

What do the letters TGDN stand for? Twitter Gulag Dick Noses?

Twitter Gulag Drama Nitwits
Todd’s Getting Drunk Now
Todd’s God Damn Nuts

419 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:37:41am

Okay…I browsed that hashtag for a minute or two…my response:

420 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:38:41am
421 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:39:08am

re: #415 Obdicut

Since god was everywhere, everywhen, God was also present when I wrote a short story about the sex life of clowns.

Clowns can breed?

I’m gonna have nightmares.

422 Mattand  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:39:12am

re: #415 Obdicut

Since god was everywhere, everywhen, God was also present when I wrote a short story about the sex life of clowns.

I’m trying to think of way to work in an analogy about the multiple contents of a clown car and a clown’s pants. However, a lack of talent and a heretofore unknown modicum of taste are preventing me.

423 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:40:30am

re: #422 Mattand

I’m trying to think of way to work in an analogy about the multiple contents of a clown car and a clown’s pants. However, a lack of talent and a heretofore unknown modicum of taste are preventing me.

Honestly, the short story didn’t turn out that well. Clown sex wasn’t the rich vein of pathos I’d hoped it would be.

God didn’t like it either. He kept sucking his teeth and going “Eehhh” while I was writing it.

424 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:44:04am

The venison sausage is surprisingly mild, quite good on the sriracha cheese-bread I made, and my mother-in-law confirms that she did indeed pack it along with the peppermint bark, chocolate turtles, pate, hammentashen (they’re not hammentashen but they’re exactly like hammentashen so to me they’re hammentashen), pepper jelly, pumpkin brittle, hummus, pita, dolma, duck breast, and three different kinds of fudge.

425 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:44:16am

*FACE PALMING DERP*


Obama didn’t *raise* taxes, GOP allowed temporary payroll tax cuts to expire.

Every time I tweet this another wingnut loses its shit.

426 Mattand  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:44:43am

re: #423 Obdicut

Honestly, the short story didn’t turn out that well. Clown sex wasn’t the rich vein of pathos I’d hoped it would be.

God didn’t like it either. He kept sucking his teeth and going “Eehhh” while I was writing it.

Everyone’s a critic.

Of course, the proper response is: “Yo. Asshole. You’re God. Do it yourself.”

427 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:44:54am

re: #411 Mattand

What does G-d need a spaceship for?

428 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:45:34am
429 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:47:09am

re: #428 Gus

[Embedded content]

Everybody who Tweets with the avatar of a “hot girl”

1. Is using a random stock photo
2. Is probably a spammer
3. Is probably a guy

You can find a bunch of these spammers on the old #tcot hashtag, soon they will take over #tgdn

430 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:47:28am

re: #416 Dark_Falcon

No, I’m not trying to imply that. What I am saying is that seeking help for mental distress can impact how one is perceived by others, and that change in perception can have negative consequences.

An example: Instead of the managers saying “It’s good that Jerry went to get help for PTSD. Being on active duty in Iraq was very hard on him and it’ll help his performance to have gotten treatment.”, they’d more likely be saying: “We need to see if we can get Jerry out of here. If he’s got PTSD he could be a time bomb for all we know. It’s the people with mental issues who shoot up offices.”

This country is far more advanced in understanding people’s need for mental health services than you think. The America you describe is stuck in the 1950s. “Don’t take Johnny to a psychiatrist…the neighbors will talk!” It’s bullshit and your repeating that fear of stigma is only promoting that fear of stigma.

The way you help people who need to seek help is by not judging them, or telling them that others will judge them. You accept them, encourage them, and support them. Period. Fuck those assholes who might have irrational fears of people with PTSD. They’re part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Don’t be part of the problem.

431 Mattand  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:48:17am

re: #428 Gus

[Embedded content]

Because nothing says “empowerment” like a sexist comment.

432 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:51:15am

re: #431 Mattand

Because nothing says “empowerment” like a sexist comment.

TGDN. Conservative internet grassroots movement. Brought to you by the sexist pig, Todd Kincannon. Classy.

433 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:51:18am

Rand Paul’s Son Arrested For Underage Drinking, Disorderly Conduct: Report

Police say U.S. Sen. Rand Paul’s son was arrested after a flight from Kentucky to North Carolina.

The Charlotte Observer reports 19-year-old William Hilton Paul was arrested Saturday morning at Charlotte Douglas International Airport and charged with alcohol-related offenses. [Link: bit.ly…]

The newspaper quotes Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Lt. Blake Hollar as saying it’s possible Paul was served alcohol on the flight from Lexington, Ky., to Charlotte.

When the plane landed shortly before 11 a.m., the son of the Republican senator from Kentucky and grandson of former presidential candidate Ron Paul was charged with consuming beer/wine underage, disorderly conduct and being intoxicated and disruptive.

In a brief statement, Sen. Paul’s office said “as many parents with teenagers would understand,” the family requested their privacy be respected “in a situation such as this.”

434 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:51:36am

re: #430 darthstar

This country is far more advanced in understanding people’s need for mental health services than you think. The America you describe is stuck in the 1950s. “Don’t take Johnny to a psychiatrist…the neighbors will talk!” It’s bullshit and your repeating that fear of stigma is only promoting that fear of stigma.

The way you help people who need to seek help is by not judging them, or telling them that others will judge them. You accept them, encourage them, and support them. Period. Fuck those assholes who might have irrational fears of people with PTSD. They’re part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Don’t be part of the problem.

I don’t have such irrational fears. What I was saying is that part of the problem is concerns about running afoul of people who do hold them. I know those fears are bullshit, but they can still be found at times, and they are aided and abetted by the desire many people have to take the easy way out in both thought and life.

435 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:51:59am

re: #428 Gus

[Embedded content]

Wow, is this guy ever a douche.

‘Morning, Lizards! Welcome to the working week!

436 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:53:22am

re: #433 Amory Blaine

Rand Paul’s Son Arrested For Underage Drinking, Disorderly Conduct: Report

If this wasn’t Rand Paul’s son it wouldn’t be notable. “19 year-old male acts stupidly” is a ‘dog-bites-man’ type of situation.

437 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:54:13am

re: #425 Vicious Babushka

What part of temporary tax break do these people not understand? Oh wait, they figured/expected that once the temporary break was enacted, it was only a matter of time before it was made permanent.

They were right with the Bush tax cuts from 2001/2003/2009. Obama made them permanent for all but those making over $400/450k. That’s why it’s so maddening when I hear the GOP complain that they lost the tax cut war. If they lost, it was Pyrrhic. They wont admit it except in the deep corners of their caucus, but they got most of what they were looking for - cuts for most everyone except the rich and the rates are now permanently lower (or back to the 39.6% top tax bracket.

The payroll tax is a different creature since it is to fund Social Security. The reduction in payroll tax undermines the long term solvency of the program. That situation could be fixed by any of the following: 1) restore the rate to the prior level (going from 4.2% to 6.2% - the route taken); 2) permanently reduce benefits for those retiring down the line to maintain the same level of solvency; 3) raise the cap from ~$110k to unlimited - exposing income above $110k to payroll tax obligations, rather than to everyone who makes under $110.

Method 1 was the chosen method, and the one that Congress signed on to when it initially approved the bill into law. It was always meant to be temporary as a means to put more money into the economy. Method 2 would have negative outcomes for both parties politically since reducing benefits would hit Seniors hard down the line.

Method 3 would hit high income earners harder than everyone else, and could be coupled a partial rate reduction across the board (3a/3b). For political expediency, (1) was chosen.

Now, we’re going to watch the GOPers go back and start working on cutting benefits for these programs, and trying to pin the blame on the President - even citing the lost revenue and reduced solvency of the programs (in part due to the temporary payroll tax break) without the slightest hint of irony.

438 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 7:59:29am
439 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:00:05am

re: #437 lawhawk

Why the House Couldn’t Amend the Deal
By Ramesh Ponnuru
January 1, 2013 9:29 P.M.

A lot of conservatives in the House wanted to add spending cuts to the Senate deal and spent hours trying to figure out if they could pass a version of the deal that included them. They failed, though, for the same reason Speaker Boehner’s “Plan B” failed.

You may recall that Boehner wanted the House to pass a bill that blocked income-tax increases for everyone making less than $1 million a year but allowed scheduled increases to take place for people who make more. He couldn’t get such a bill through the House, though, because Democrats wanted a bigger tax increase and a lot of Republicans didn’t want to appear to be endorsing tax increases for anyone. Republicans especially didn’t want to vote “for tax increases” since Boehner’s bill probably wasn’t going to become law. From their perspective, they would be sullying their voting records for nothing.

A deal-plus-spending-cuts bill faced the same hurdle. Republicans had to find 218 votes from their ranks alone; Democrats weren’t going to supply any votes for a bill to the right of the Senate deal. And a lot of Republicans didn’t want to vote “for” tax increases — bigger ones than many of them had rejected when Plan B was being considered. Again, they especially didn’t want to do that when the bill had a good chance of dying in the Senate.

In short: A lot of Republicans wished the deal included more spending cuts without being willing to vote for a deal with more spending cuts. That’s why this effort failed.

(Bolding mine.)

440 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:00:58am
441 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:01:58am

re: #434 Dark_Falcon

I don’t have such irrational fears. What I was saying is that part of the problem is concerns about running afoul of people who do hold them. I know those fears are bullshit, but they can still be found at times, and they are aided and abetted by the desire many people have to take the easy way out in both thought and life.

Then stop repeating them. You called it “an immense head wind” - which implies that fear of social stigma is a major factor in veterans with PTSD not seeking help. If you have data to back that up, share it. Otherwise you’re just making shit up to sound knowledgeable…and it isn’t working.

442 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:03:39am

re: #440 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

They’re getting crazier. I’m seeing more veiled threats and death wishes in these early days of 2013. They’re not even hiding it.

443 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:04:07am

re: #440 Vicious Babushka

How pleasant.

444 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:04:59am

re: #437 lawhawk

I never agreed with the Payroll Tax holiday. It was a short term stimulus ploy while Congress put SS Stability in harms way..

445 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:05:06am

Kabookie! This guy is an American Thinker contributor. Quack.

446 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:05:52am
447 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:06:52am

Oh, about that “mental health” thing

448 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:07:14am

Holy crap. Just minutes after I took this very escalator at Exchange Place for PATH, the escalator malfunctioned and instead of going up, started to go in reverse.

5 people were hurt with minor injuries.

This is one of the longest escalators in the NYC metro area - you’re going about 150 feet down, and it’s taller than the bank of escalators at the WTC. There are 3 in total at Exchange Place and all were damaged in #Sandy. One is still under repair, and the middle escalator has been in and out of service. I actually was on it last weekend while it was off, and it started going in reverse just feet from the top. It’s quite possible that some electrical gremlin caused by flood damage is still affecting that escalator and I can only hope that they get the 3d escalator back in service, because if they can’t get them back up and running, it makes that station quite dangerous to evacuate in an emergency.

449 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:08:28am
450 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:09:03am

re: #442 Gus

They’re getting crazier. I’m seeing more veiled threats and death wishes in these early days of 2013. They’re not even hiding it.

This is what we can expect: more threats and even acts of violence, prompting the government to react, at which point the government’s reactions will be held up as proof of how they want to disarm us and deprive us of our rights.

451 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:11:21am

re: #447 Vicious Babushka

Oh, about that “mental health” thing

[Embedded content]

HIPPA

What Information is Protected

Protected Health Information. The Privacy Rule protects all “individually identifiable health information” held or transmitted by a covered entity or its business associate, in any form or media, whether electronic, paper, or oral. The Privacy Rule calls this information “protected health information (PHI).”12

“Individually identifiable health information” is information, including demographic data, that relates to:

the individual’s past, present or future physical or mental health or condition,
the provision of health care to the individual, or
the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to the individual,

and that identifies the individual or for which there is a reasonable basis to believe it can be used to identify the individual.13 Individually identifiable health information includes many common identifiers (e.g., name, address, birth date, Social Security Number).

The Privacy Rule excludes from protected health information employment records that a covered entity maintains in its capacity as an employer and education and certain other records subject to, or defined in, the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, 20 U.S.C. &sect1232g.

452 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:12:01am

re: #441 darthstar

Then stop repeating them. You called it “an immense head wind” - which implies that fear of social stigma is a major factor in veterans with PTSD not seeking help. If you have data to back that up, share it. Otherwise you’re just making shit up to sound knowledgeable…and it isn’t working.

Well, I do have this piece from the NYT to begin, an article that got its own LGF Page as well:

“Psychosis” — a loss of touch with reality — is an umbrella term, not unlike “fever.” As with fevers, there are many causes, from drugs and alcohol to head injuries and dementias. The most common source of severe psychosis in young adults is schizophrenia, a badly named disorder that, in the original Greek, means “split mind.” In fact, schizophrenia has nothing to do with multiple personality, a disorder that is usually caused by major repeated traumas in childhood. Schizophrenia is a physiological disorder caused by changes in the prefrontal cortex, an area of the brain that is essential for language, abstract thinking and appropriate social behavior. This highly evolved brain area is weakened by stress, as often occurs in adolescence.

Psychiatrists and neurobiologists have observed biochemical changes and alterations in brain connections in patients with schizophrenia. For example, miscommunications between the prefrontal cortex and the language area in the temporal cortex may result in auditory hallucinations, as well as disorganized thoughts. When the voices become commands, all bets are off. The commands might insist, for example, that a person jump out of a window, even if he has no intention of dying, or grab a set of guns and kill people, without any sense that he is wreaking havoc. Additional symptoms include other distorted thinking, like the notion that something — even a spaceship, or a comic book character — is controlling one’s thoughts and actions.

Schizophrenia generally rears its head between the ages of 15 and 24, with a slightly later age for females. Early signs may include being a quirky loner — often mistaken for Asperger’s syndrome — but acute signs and symptoms do not appear until adolescence or young adulthood.

453 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:14:15am

They just need to “suck it up!” BOOTSTRAPS!

454 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:14:44am

re: #429 Vicious Babushka

Everybody who Tweets with the avatar of a “hot girl”

1. Is using a random stock photo
2. Is probably a spammer
3. Is probably a guy

You can find a bunch of these spammers on the old #tcot hashtag, soon they will take over #tgdn

Harrummph.

455 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:14:59am

re: #447 Vicious Babushka

Oh, about that “mental health” thing

[Embedded content]

Mike Adams is a extreme quack, and he’s an Alex Jones level conspiracist who thinks Bill Gates wants to depopulate the planet. He’s at that horrid place where the extreme left and the extreme right collide in blast of utter paranoia and insanity.

456 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:15:49am

re: #448 lawhawk

5 people were hurt with minor injuries.
I smell LAWSUIT!!!
If you hurry you can stand at the bottom and hand out your business cards

//

457 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:18:59am

re: #455 Dark_Falcon

Mike Adams is a extreme quack, and he’s an Alex Jones level conspiracist who thinks Bill Gates wants to depopulate the planet. He’s at that horrid place where the extreme left and the extreme right collide in blast of utter paranoia and insanity.

No shit. Did you think a wingnut would link to some site that’s all evolutiony and sciency?

458 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:21:03am

*FACE PALM*
*HEAD DESK*

459 darthstar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:21:16am

re: #452 Dark_Falcon

Well, I do have this piece from the NYT to begin, an article that got its own LGF Page as well:

That opinion piece says nothing about veterans, PTSD, or people avoiding mental treatment out of fear of what their neighbors will think. It does, however, argue that we’re doing too little (i.e. we don’t have enough programs)

to the swing in mental health care over the past 50 years: too little institutionalizing of teenagers and young adults (particularly men, generally more prone to violence) who have had a recent onset of schizophrenia; too little education about the public health impact of untreated mental illness; too few psychiatrists to talk about and treat severe mental disorders — even though the medications available in the past 15 to 20 years can be remarkably effective.

460 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:22:52am

Sen. Rand Paul takes his special brand of Kentucky charm to Israel:

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

461 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:26:11am

re: #460 Decatur Deb

Did he take some bourbon to smooth things over?

462 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:28:03am

re: #461 freetoken

Did he take some bourbon to smooth things over?

Nah, just the Aqua Buddha bong…

463 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:29:28am

Just discovered some relatives on Facebook. I think they have no clue I even exist, and from looking at their entries that is probably a good thing.

464 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:32:04am

re: #393 iossarian

Comedy. To summarize: “The American Dream is dead and we are now an oligarchy, we just have to figure out a way of saying it that doesn’t offend our sensibilities.”

OLIGARHY!

465 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:32:57am
466 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:33:10am

re: #463 freetoken

Just discovered some relatives on Facebook. I think they have no clue I even exist, and from looking at their entries that is probably a good thing.

I discovered my namesake on FB, a flight mechanic for the RCAF. I pointed out that my uncle (also our namesake) was an amateur pilot who built and flew his own airplane.

467 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:35:23am

re: #8 goddamnedfrank

The national database proposal is going to drive most Republicans and blue dogs into a blind rage.

Except the database on “mentally ill” people, which they know exactly how to define; like anyone who votes Democrat./

468 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:35:37am

re: #458 Vicious Babushka

469 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:39:04am

re: #468 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

this nasty little wingnut meme is already swarming all over Twitter.

470 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:42:28am

What’s BC?

*bahh Never mind.

471 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:42:33am

re: #469 Vicious Babushka

this nasty little wingnut meme is already swarming all over Twitter.

[Embedded content]

It strikes me that the entire GOP strategy on the tax/budget debate was to allow assholes a chance to tweet things like that…

472 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:43:25am

re: #470 Amory Blaine

What’s BC?

Birth control.

473 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:44:02am
474 freetoken  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:44:07am

re: #472 Lidane

It’s utterly, utterly stupid, but that’s not stopped them before.

475 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:45:14am
I’m glad Sam Harris and I agree that a “well regulated militia” does not include every Tom, Dick and drunk or angry Harry. However, Harris quickly offers a second argument against handgun buybacks and restrictions: He says it’s not politically feasible in 2012.

Assuming that conclusion is true, it is irrelevant.

In 1955 it would be entirely reasonable to conclude that a civil rights bill was not going to pass - not in 1955. Opponents falsely claimed that a civil rights law was unconstitutional in 1955. I suppose civil rights organizers and sympathetic politicians could have dusted their hands and had cocktails instead.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

476 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:45:16am

remember, birth control is only for sluts

477 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:48:18am
478 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:48:42am

re: #473 Lidane

479 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:49:04am

What, she couldn’t get an aspirin to put between her knees?

480 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:49:50am

re: #478 Dark_Falcon

Because people are too stupid to understand how a gun works.

481 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:52:14am
In 1955 it would be entirely reasonable to conclude that a civil rights bill was not going to pass - not in 1955. Opponents falsely claimed that a civil rights law was unconstitutional in 1955. I suppose civil rights organizers and sympathetic politicians could have dusted their hands and had cocktails instead.

This is totally right.

Make no mistake, this ghastly Gun Cult that demands the human sacrifice of Americans is a national disgrace. It is a disgrace just as slavery was, and segregation was. And just as those once seemed politically impossible and insurmountable, so too this can be beaten, but we must stop legitimising these ridiculous fantasies, and we must stop allowing the nation to pretend that guns are magic totems that make them safer and grant law and freedom.

482 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:52:58am

GO FUCK YOURSELF BRYAN

483 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:53:18am

re: #480 Lidane

Because people are too stupid to understand how a gun works.

That’s very true, actually. Learning things like safe handling, proper stance, and shooting technique can greatly demystify a rifle and get someone to understand how it is properly used.

484 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:53:24am

re: #476 Sol Berdinowitz

remember, birth control is only for sluts

Because conservative women never use birth control.

//

485 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:53:38am

re: #479 Vicious Babushka

What, she couldn’t get an aspirin to put between her knees?

Back in MY day we bought our own bc. Or, if that cost too much, ya stuffed .75 in machine on wall and got a condom.

And if you got pregnant, you got out a coat hanger…

486 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:55:07am

re: #473 Lidane

From my comment at TP

Right. We absolutely do not want lawmakers to be at all familiar with the guns they may regulate. That would be terrible lawmaking!
Dripping sarc////

BTW they used a picture of a person learning to use a revolver.

487 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:55:33am

re: #485 Sol Berdinowitz

And if you got pregnant, you got out a coat hanger…

No! You had the baby and gave it up for adoption to a good Christian family that were denied the blessing of children by merciful Jesus! After spending your pregnancy at a slut-shaming “Home for Unwed Mothers”

488 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:55:45am

re: #483 Dark_Falcon

That’s very true, actually. Learning things like safe handling, proper stance, and shooting technique can greatly demystify a rifle and get someone to understand how it is properly used.

Adam Lanza’s mother taught him all about those things, it seems.

489 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:55:50am

re: #482 Vicious Babushka

GO FUCK YOURSELF BRYAN

[Embedded content]

Yes, Hitler used gun control to disarm those whom he planned to brutalize, enslave, or kill. But if you think that Diane Feinstein or Barack Obama want to brutalize, enslave or kill anyone, then you are nutty as a bag of pecans.

490 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:56:32am

re: #489 Dark_Falcon

Yes, Hitler used gun control to disarm those whom he planned to brutalize, enslave, or kill. But if you think that Diane Feinstein or Barack Obama want to brutalize, enslave or kill anyone, then you are nutty as a bag of pecans.

They do think that and yes, they are nuttier than a bag of pecans.

491 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:57:45am

Can we designate another nut to Bryan Fischer? The pecan is so delicious.

:p

492 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:57:50am

Lawmakers regulate things that they have no idea how to use professionally themselves all the time.

The idea that you need to know exactly how to fire a gun in order to determine whether it’s insane to let everyone walk around armed to the teeth in the 21st century is very, very stupid.

493 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:58:11am

re: #491 Amory Blaine

Can we designate another nut to Bryan Fischer? The pecan is so delicious.

:p

Lugnut.

494 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:58:40am

re: #487 Vicious Babushka

No! You had the baby and gave it up for adoption to a good Christian family that were denied the blessing of children by merciful Jesus! After spending your pregnancy at a slut-shaming “Home for Unwed Mothers”

Unless your parents had the money to send you off to “visit your auntie” for a few months…

495 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:59:01am

re: #488 Interesting Times

Adam Lanza’s mother taught him all about those things, it seems.

And both of my grandfathers purchased .22 rifles for my parents and taught them how to shoot. Neither my father’s father*, nor either of my parents has ever used any gun against person.

*: My mother’s father did in fact use a gun against people, but that was as part of his service as part of a B-25 Mitchell crew in the Pacific during WWII.

496 erik_t  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:59:18am

No wonder the Poles attempted cavalry charges against the Wehrmacht, if Hitler was afraid of TEH JOOZ with mere kitchen cutlery!

/^inf

497 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:59:31am

re: #486 Political Atheist

From my comment at TP

Right. We absolutely do not want lawmakers to be at all familiar with the guns they may regulate. That would be terrible lawmaking!
Dripping sarc////

BTW they used a picture of a person learning to use a revolver.

Nonetheless, if this so-called assault rifle “training” is to be fully realistic, it ought to be demo’d how quickly those weapons can shoot up a room full of child-sized crash test dummies. Makes it just a tad more difficult to glamorize guns under those circumstances, does it not?

498 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:59:40am

re: #489 Dark_Falcon

Yes, Hitler used gun control to disarm those whom he planned to brutalize, enslave, or kill. But if you think that Diane Feinstein or Barack Obama want to brutalize, enslave or kill anyone, then you are nutty as a bag of pecans.

You hit upon the core image and core message of the Tea Party: that Obama is somehow a usurper, a foreigner, an impostor with no legal claim to power in this country.

499 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:59:44am

re: #491 Amory Blaine

Can we designate another nut to Bryan Fischer? The pecan is so delicious.

:p

Cashews?

500 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:00:06am

From the department of awesome counterarguments:

Only people who don’t own guns fully understand the exact way in which a non-gun-owning existence is carried out.

Therefore the only people qualified to determine whether we should restrict gun ownership are non-gun-owners.

501 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:00:45am

re: #497 Interesting Times

Nonetheless, if this so-called assault rifle “training” is to be fully realistic, it ought to be demo’d how quickly those weapons can shoot up a room full of child-sized crash test dummies. Makes it just a tad more difficult to glamorize guns under those circumstances, does it not?

What a great idea. Mandatory photos of the participants’ children on range dummies.

502 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:02:23am
503 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:02:59am

re: #491 Amory Blaine

Can we designate another nut to Bryan Fischer? The pecan is so delicious.

:p

ACORN

504 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:03:08am

re: #497 Interesting Times

Nonetheless, if this so-called assault rifle “training” is to be fully realistic, it ought to be demo’d how quickly those weapons can shoot up a room full of child-sized crash test dummies. Makes it just a tad more difficult to glamorize guns under those circumstances, does it not?

You go too far. The AR-15 was not made to be used to kill children. Eugene Stoner designed it to be a lightweight rifle for use by the military. It was intended to defend the nation, not to conduct mass murder.

505 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:03:40am

re: #497 Interesting Times

Nonetheless, if this so-called assault rifle “training” is to be fully realistic, it ought to be demo’d how quickly those weapons can shoot up a room full of child-sized crash test dummies. Makes it just a tad more difficult to glamorize guns under those circumstances, does it not?

I support this plan.

Let these political hacks see what those weapons the NRA fetishizes so much can do to a 6 or 7 year old. That will help them understand guns better.

506 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:03:51am

Yes the acorn is a fine nut. Thank you.

507 BongCrodny  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:04:20am

re: #491 Amory Blaine

Can we designate another nut to Bryan Fischer? The pecan is so delicious.

:p

Macaderpia.

508 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:05:48am

re: #497 Interesting Times

Sure, demonstrate with the .00000000001% of what happens with those guns. That seems right. *sigh*

I think the high capacity will make exactly the right impression, as will the powerful nature of the ammunition. The ability to reload fast. This might show exactly why it makes sense to ban certain guns or capacity and not others.

If lawmakers were more familiar with the devices and circumstances the legislate, we would have better lawmaking overall.

509 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:06:37am

re: #504 Dark_Falcon

You go too far. The AR-15 was not made to be used to kill children. Eugene Stoner designed it to be a lightweight rifle for use by the military. It was intended to defend the nation, not to conduct mass murder.

Ah. So it’s a good idea for people to understand what guns can be used for, as long as they don’t understand everything that guns can be used for, but only the nice, foreigner-shooting bits. Is that about it?

510 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:06:57am

re: #508 Political Atheist

If lawmakers were more familiar with the devices and circumstances the legislate less terrified of the NRA, we would have better lawmaking overall.

511 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:07:58am

re: #483 Dark_Falcon

That’s very true, actually. Learning things like safe handling, proper stance, and shooting technique can greatly demystify a rifle and get someone to understand how it is properly used.

I’m still waiting for an explanation as to how a Bushmaster can be used for ‘good.’

512 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:08:03am

re: #509 iossarian

Ah. So it’s a good idea for people to understand what guns can be used for, as long as they don’t understand everything that guns can be used for, but only the nice, foreigner-shooting bits. Is that about it?

What exactly about understanding the gun by shooting it with proper supervision makes it hard for anyone to understand it’s potential in a killers hands?

513 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:08:48am
You go too far. The AR-15 was not made to be used to kill children. Eugene Stoner designed it to be a lightweight rifle for use by the military. It was intended to defend the nation, not to conduct mass murder.

Yet that is what it’s used for.

Intent is not especially relevant. For instance, the mass sale of firearms into civilian hands is intended only to turn a massive profit off fear and paranoia, not to cause mass murder. Mass murder is only an acceptable side effect.

514 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:09:12am

re: #496 erik_t

No wonder the Poles attempted cavalry charges against the Wehrmacht, if Hitler was afraid of TEH JOOZ with mere kitchen cutlery!

/^inf

If anyone brings up that stupid bit of Italian-originated propaganda, I’ll start screaming. The actual charge in question was by a battalion of Polish cavalry, some of whom do seem to have been carrying lances (officially Polish cavalry units were to store their lances in wartime, but this was not universally followed), and those cavalrymen were able to route a battalion of German infantrymen. It was only when armored cars arrived to supper the Landser (German Infantry) that the Poles took serious losses and were forced to retreat. Italian war correspondents* visited the area shortly thereafter and invented the myth of Polish cavalry charging tanks.

*: Italy did not enter World War II until June of 1940.

515 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:09:33am

re: #508 Political Atheist

If lawmakers were more familiar with the devices and circumstances the legislate, we would have better lawmaking overall.

I think lawmakers understand guns pretty well to be honest. You shoot them at people and the people die.

With that being said, if you’re going to encourage lawmakers to go on “guns are awesome” frat parties, it seems a bit churlish to complain when people suggest they might also be exposed to “guns are tools of death and destruction” reality.

516 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:09:34am

re: #508 Political Atheist

Sure, demonstrate with the .00000000001% of what happens with those guns. That seems right. *sigh*

Of course it’s right.

Set up those guns with ballistics gel torsos on the other end of the range filled with fake blood. Let the political hacks open fire on something that looks and reacts the way a real body would.

Having them shoot at plain targets misses the point. Assault rifles are intended to kill. Let people see what they can do to the human body.

517 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:10:41am

re: #512 Political Atheist

What exactly about understanding the gun by shooting it with proper supervision makes it hard for anyone to understand it’s potential in a killers hands?

Yes, that’s exactly why the pro-gun folks want lawmakers to go on fully-catered trips to the firing range.

@_@

518 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:11:11am

re: #504 Dark_Falcon

You go too far.

No, I don’t. Visuals are required. If visuals didn’t have power, why did the Bush admin ban images of coffin-draped caskets?

Time for gun violence to quit being white-washed. Imagine, ridiculing others who say “think of the children”, when you can’t even bear the thought of seeing a demo of what the guns you defend do to them.

519 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:11:37am

re: #511 makeitstop

I’m still waiting for an explanation as to how a Bushmaster can be used for ‘good.’

A Bushmaster used to ward off a criminal gang intent on robbery is being used for good. A Bushmaster used by a police officer to shoot a murderous gang member is being used for good.

520 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:11:43am
What exactly about understanding the gun by shooting it with proper supervision makes it hard for anyone to understand it’s potential in a killers hands?

Because apparently those willing devotees of the Gun Cult have no idea, even despite using their guns with proper supervision. Because despite constant reminders of the consequences of firearm proliferation, they still fail to understand the potential, and think that they need guns at home to protect themselves from these killers, because the guns could never be the problem.

See Lanza, Nancy.

521 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:13:38am

re: #518 Interesting Times

Time for gun violence to quit being white-washed. Imagine, ridiculing others who say “think of the children”, when you can’t even bear the thought of seeing a demo of what the guns you defend do to them.

One thousand times this.

I would expect a little more manliness in the face of harsh reality from the folks who like to plaster images of dismembered fetuses all over the shop. But I guess they get squeamish in their own way when profits are threatened.

522 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:13:58am

re: #520 Renaissance_Man

The object isn’t to reach those who are already on the NRA’s side. The object of such an event is to reach out to the moderate who does not know much about guns. It’s intended as an outreach event, not simply for core supporters.

523 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:14:20am

A day at the range would not likely do more than strengthen the existing pro- or anti- attitudes of the legislators. PR, BS.

524 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:16:40am

re: #522 Dark_Falcon

The object isn’t to reach those who are already on the NRA’s side. The object of such an event is to reach out to the moderate who does not know much about guns. It’s intended as an outreach event, not simply for core supporters.

Then the outreach event should show what those guns can actually do, don’t you think?

What’s the point of talking about personal defense and liberty and the freedom of gun ownership if you whitewash what the weapons you fetishize can actually do to another human being? The worst possible thing is to turn gun violence and weapons into abstract tools. Visceral realism is much more effective.

525 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:17:25am

re: #523 Decatur Deb

A day at the range would not likely do more than strengthen the existing pro- or anti- attitudes of the legislators. PR, BS.

I’d like to think this was true but it’s obviously an effort to sway the non-believers with some shrimp cocktail and a bit of light-hearted shooting at colored* targets.

* Extreme bad taste pun fully intentional.

526 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:17:28am

re: #519 Dark_Falcon

A Bushmaster used to ward off a criminal gang intent on robbery is being used for good. A Bushmaster used by a police officer to shoot a murderous gang member is being used for good.

So if it can be used for good, why not let people see the effects first hand?

527 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:17:43am

re: #523 Decatur Deb

A day at the range would not likely do more than strengthen the existing pro- or anti- attitudes of the legislators. PR, BS.

My wife remarked the other day how different it was to have her father show her his gun in his living room, and for us to use them down at the firing range.

And the firing range, it’s such a controlled, safe, fun environment that the gun isn’t at all a stressful thing, it’s just what you shoot at the targets.

In her dad’s living room, it was ominous to her, scary, a dangerous thing representing, at best, a desperate circumstance.

528 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:19:10am
The object isn’t to reach those who are already on the NRA’s side. The object of such an event is to reach out to the moderate who does not know much about guns. It’s intended as an outreach event, not simply for core supporters.

Exactly - to feed people more bullshit with a ‘guns are awesome’ frat party. The hell with that.

Tour the emergency rooms. Tour the morgue. Have them help parents ID the bodies of their children whose faces are blown off. Have them help me split the chest of a thrashing, screaming teenager who’s drowning in his own blood so I can try to cross-clamp his aorta so he doesn’t bleed out before he can even reach the OR.

Or is that well dry? Should we only limit ourselves to stupid emotional arguments about how guns are freedom wands and magical defence sticks, rather than factual arguments?

529 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:19:40am

I’ve got a great idea to get lawmakers to understand the uses to which guns can be put:

Place 20 lawmakers in the innermost room of an otherwise empty high school, and then tell them there are two men in the building with Bushmasters.

Pants-wetting comedy ensues.

530 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:21:27am

re: #519 Dark_Falcon

A Bushmaster used to ward off a criminal gang intent on robbery is being used for good. A Bushmaster used by a police officer to shoot a murderous gang member is being used for good.

A Bushmaster fired inadvertently by an untrained civlian into a crowd of people while trying to gun down an assassin is being used for good but doing a lot of harm.

Guns are not some magic talisman: to defend yourself in your home with a gun, you need training and strong nerves. To do so in public, you need training, experience, iron nerves and very sound judgement.

Not the sort of skills set that people acquire as easily as a gun permit.

531 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:21:52am

re: #519 Dark_Falcon

A Bushmaster used to ward off a criminal gang intent on robbery is being used for good.

Oh, Jesus.

Okay, let’s go down that road. Give me one instance of a civilian using a Bushmaster to thwart a ‘criminal gang.’ Just one, let’s see a link.

532 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:22:03am

So much FAIL in such a small Tweet

533 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:22:37am

re: #532 Vicious Babushka

So much FAIL in such a small Tweet

[Embedded content]

if he’s a confederate rebel, is he rebelling against the confederacy?

534 iossarian  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:22:51am

re: #531 makeitstop

Oh, Jesus.

Okay, let’s go down that road. Give me one instance of a civilian using a Bushmaster to thwart a ‘criminal gang.’ Just one, let’s see a link.

i saw it happen in the movie theatre it must be real

BBL folks!

535 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:22:51am

re: #530 Sol Berdinowitz

Guns are not some magic talisman: to defend yourself in your home with a gun, you need training and strong nerves. To do so in public, you need training, experience, iron nerves and very sound judgement.

Not the sort of skills set that people acquire as easily as a gun permit.

Second Amendment! Hitler disarmed Da Jooz! Freedom! Eleventy!

536 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:24:22am

re: #532 Vicious Babushka

So much FAIL in such a small Tweet

[Embedded content]

If at first you don’t secede, FAIL, FAIL again.

My Standing Answer to Neo-Confederates:

537 bratwurst  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:24:38am

re: #504 Dark_Falcon

You go too far. The AR-15 was not made to be used to kill children. Eugene Stoner designed it to be a lightweight rifle for use by the military. It was intended to defend the nation, not to conduct mass murder.

So now this is a military weapon? Seems like this distinction has been causing a lot of panty bunching. Glad we seem to agree that a weapon like this should be strictly in the hands of the military though.

538 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:24:39am

re: #533 Obdicut

if he’s a confederate rebel, is he rebelling against the confederacy?

Note the British Crown in the avatar.

Secede from the USA, join the UK where there’s a whole big bunch of Gun Control

But it doesn’t work!1! Only MOAR GUNZ is TEH ANSER!1!

539 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:24:40am

re: #531 makeitstop

Oh, Jesus.

Okay, let’s go down that road. Give me one instance of a civilian using a Bushmaster to thwart a ‘criminal gang.’ Just one, let’s see a link.

What’s wrong with hunting? Or target shooting? Or military service rifle competition? Any and all of which can still be done with a ten round “tool only” removable magazine.

540 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:24:47am

re: #531 makeitstop

Doesn’t matter. It’s the fantasy of the whole thing that’s at the heart of the issue. Same with people who carry in public. They’re starring in their own action movie.

541 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:25:53am

I love how even when he’s relaxed and happy, my black cat looks insane and pissed off.

Image: 5Dapr.jpg

542 blueraven  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:27:09am

re: #539 Political Atheist

What’s wrong with hunting? Or target shooting? Or military service rifle competition? Any and all of which can still be done with a ten round “tool only” removable magazine.

You hunt with a bushmaster?

543 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:27:22am

re: #402 Obdicut

I found a heavily wrapped tube of something squishy in my fridge that I don’t recognize and my wife doesn’t either. Beginning the unwrapping now. For science!

A conversation with an ex.

Her: Are these mushrooms still good?

Me: That isn’t mushrooms. It’s cheese.

Yes, I was a typical bachelor once.

544 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:28:03am

re: #541 Obdicut

I love how even when he’s relaxed and happy, my black cat looks insane and pissed off.

Image: 5Dapr.jpg

Thanks, gonna get fired for looking at kitty porn.

545 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:28:12am

re: #541 Obdicut

I love how even when he’s relaxed and happy, my black cat looks insane and pissed off.

Image: 5Dapr.jpg

He’s just being imperious. You need to perfect your skills at waiting on him hand and foot. ;)

546 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:29:14am

re: #539 Political Atheist

What’s wrong with hunting? Or target shooting? Or military service rifle competition? Any and all of which can still be done with a ten round “tool only” removable magazine.

If you have to hunt with that much ammo to hand, you’re a lousy shot.

And target shooting is fine, but sterile. It misses the real world implications of gun ownership and the effects of those high powered assault rifles.

547 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:29:20am

re: #542 blueraven

You hunt with a bushmaster?

Lots of people do. Bushmaster markets some of their rifles as ‘varmit guns’ for use on animals such as gophers and prairie dogs.

548 bratwurst  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:30:03am
549 blueraven  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:30:44am

re: #547 Dark_Falcon

Lots of people do. Bushmaster markets some of their rifles as ‘varmit guns’ for use on animals such as gophers and prairie dogs.

Isn’t that a bit of overkill, not to mention non-sportsman like?

550 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:30:55am

re: #539 Political Atheist

What’s wrong with hunting? Or target shooting? Or military service rifle competition? Any and all of which can still be done with a ten round “tool only” removable magazine.

Goal-post moving.

Dark made a statement. I want him to back it up with an actual instance of it occurring.

Leave the other shit aside for now. I want an instance of a civilian defending him or herself from a ‘criminal gang’ with a Bushmaster.

551 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:31:02am

Pretty sick of the whole post-Sandy Hook panic. The real human cost of guns in the hands of idiots has very little to do with long weapons in kindergartens. That’s the source of outrage, not policy. As long as Other Kinds of People in Other Parts of Town were slaughtering themselves at a tolerable pace, only a few voices were heard.

Fixing it requires the nasty work needed to get a liberal Supreme Court and a TPGOP minority House. This national woe-fest is pushing us farther from the day we can make some real-world progress against the causes and amplifiers of gun violence.

552 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:31:04am

re: #540 Ghost of Tom Joad

Doesn’t matter. It’s the fantasy of the whole thing that’s at the heart of the issue. Same with people who carry in public. They’re starring in their own action movie.

A bit of a generalization, but we have seen enough examples of people who did think so, and pulled their guns over loud music, slow service in a pizza parlor or an argument over dog poo in the yard…

553 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:34:27am

HA HA HA

554 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:35:04am

re: #549 blueraven

Isn’t that a bit of overkill, not to mention non-sportsman like?

No, it isn’t. The 5.56mm round is effective in killing a small animal at once at appropriate distances.

555 erik_t  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:35:37am

re: #554 Dark_Falcon

No, it isn’t. The 5.56mm round is effective in killing a small animal at once at appropriate distances.

He’s talking about the assault rifle, not the cartridge. Don’t be obtuse.

556 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:38:41am

re: #555 erik_t

He’s talking about the assault rifle, not the cartridge. Don’t be obtuse.

I’m not being obtuse. The argument about if it is overkill depends on the cartridge in this sort of matter. Using 7.62X51mm cartridge on a groundhog would be overkill even if you fired the shot from a single shot bolt-action rifle.

557 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:39:04am

re: #555 erik_t

He’s talking about the assault rifle, not the cartridge. Don’t be obtuse.

“How can you be so obtuse.”
“What did you call me?!”
“Obtuse. Is it deliberate?”

558 Mattand  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:39:26am

Been looking through the #tgdn thread. These people really think that they’re somehow “beating” Twitter by accuring 3000+followers.

I cannot *wait* for the first TGDN idiot to be suspended once they go back to spamming someone.

559 blueraven  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:40:27am

re: #557 Ghost of Tom Joad

“How can you be so obtuse.”
“What did you call me?!”
“Obtuse. Is it deliberate?”

upding for a great movie reference and scene!

560 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:40:33am

Here we go again.

561 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:40:57am

Nor Luap!

562 erik_t  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:42:40am

re: #556 Dark_Falcon

I’m not being obtuse. The argument about if it is overkill depends on the cartridge in this sort of matter. Using 7.62X51mm cartridge on a groundhog would be overkill even if you fired the shot from a single shot bolt-action rifle.

Bullshit. Bull fucking shit. By all means, point to anyone in this thread discussing a limitations on cartridges rather than on high rates of fire and large magazines associated with semi-automatic weapons.

You’re not even attempting to move the goalposts; you’re attempting to lay down home plate at the fifteen yard line.

It’s low even for you.

563 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:47:23am

Yeah, no instances of ‘criminal gangs.’

Color me surprised.
///

564 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:47:29am
565 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:47:44am

re: #564 Gus

[Embedded content]

10 months.

566 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:50:06am

re: #542 blueraven

Despite being an omnivore by habit, I personally don’t hunt at all. But yes many ar-15 type guns are used in hunting and target shooting. People bring them to a range and dial them in. Security guards also use them at some locations. SWAT teams use them. A total ban would end all that.

I just do not accept the idea that legislating from ignorance or common misunderstandings compounded by the most emotional circumstance possible (fake child bodies on a range as suggested above) will make for good law. I do support regulation. Within the context of our individual civil right.

Many wish this right would go away. Not Gonna Happen. Hey, some wish the 1st amendment would go away. England does just fine without it right? No problem with the Official Secrets Act ever.

567 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:51:15am

re: #566 Political Atheist

A total ban would end all that.

More regulation =/= total ban.

568 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:51:35am

re: #562 erik_t

Bullshit. Bull fucking shit. By all means, point to anyone in this thread discussing a limitations on cartridges rather than on high rates of fire and large magazines associated with semi-automatic weapons.

You’re not even attempting to move the goalposts; you’re attempting to lay down home plate at the fifteen yard line.

It’s low even for you.

No, I’m not. Let me lay out the relevant exchange:

re: #539 Political Atheist

What’s wrong with hunting? Or target shooting? Or military service rifle competition? Any and all of which can still be done with a ten round “tool only” removable magazine.

re: #542 blueraven

You hunt with a bushmaster?

re: #547 Dark_Falcon

Lots of people do. Bushmaster markets some of their rifles as ‘varmit guns’ for use on animals such as gophers and prairie dogs.

re: #549 blueraven

Isn’t that a bit of overkill, not to mention non-sportsman like?

re: #554 Dark_Falcon

No, it isn’t. The 5.56mm round is effective in killing a small animal at once at appropriate distances.

Large magazines were not part of the relevant discussion. Bushmaster also sells smaller 5 or 10-round magazines that are intended to be used when hunting. A “Bushmaster” refers to the rifle, not to the magazine it happens to be loaded with at any particular time. Chambered for the 5.56X45mm cartridge, a Bushmaster rifle is suitable for hunting small game.

I’m not always trying to make a broader point and I wasn’t in that exchange. All I was trying to do was answer Blue Raven’s question.

569 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:52:27am

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

If at first you don’t secede, FAIL, FAIL again.

My Standing Answer to Neo-Confederates:

[Embedded content]

The next American Civil War will resemble the Yugoslavian Civil War then the First American Civil War. That is it will be fought mostly by lightly armed guerrillas against unarmed civilians. Occasionally proper armed forces will be involved but none will have the logistical capability to advance far into the other side’s territory.

The same people will win that next war as won in Yugoslavia.

570 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:53:15am

I’m out, gotta work.

Again I suggest that we write good effective regulations. Not likely if we lead with emotions and misunderstandings.

571 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:53:53am

re: #556 Dark_Falcon

I’m not being obtuse. The argument about if it is overkill depends on the cartridge in this sort of matter. Using 7.62X51mm cartridge on a groundhog would be overkill even if you fired the shot from a single shot bolt-action rifle.

that’s why you don’t use a 7.62 to hunt groundhogs, squirrels or other small game. However a 7.62 is quite good for deer hunting and bigger game. I used to hunt squirrel’s with a .22, rabbit/game birds with a 12guage shotgun, deer with an SKS or a 30.06 (and used that one for bear).

572 Mattand  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:56:05am

re: #571 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

that’s why you don’t use a 7.62 to hunt groundhogs, squirrels or other small game. However a 7.62 is quite good for deer hunting and bigger game. I used to hunt squirrel’s with a .22, rabbit/game birds with a 12guage shotgun, deer with an SKS or a 30.06 (and used that one for bear).

Know nothing about guns, other than they’re good at killing shit. I’m guessing the 7.62 essentially vaporizes small game?

573 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:57:09am
574 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:57:56am

re: #573 Gus

[Embedded content]

The Supreme Court on Monday declined to take up the issue of carrying guns in church, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports, leaving in place a Georgia law that prohibits carrying guns in houses of worship.

575 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:59:13am

re: #551 Decatur Deb

Pretty sick of the whole post-Sandy Hook panic. The real human cost of guns in the hands of idiots has very little to do with long weapons in kindergartens. That’s the source of outrage, not policy. As long as Other Kinds of People in Other Parts of Town were slaughtering themselves at a tolerable pace, only a few voices were heard.

Fixing it requires the nasty work needed to get a liberal Supreme Court and a TPGOP minority House. This national woe-fest is pushing us farther from the day we can make some real-world progress against the causes and amplifiers of gun violence.

I kind of half-agree. But humans work that way. It takes a narrative to get them to do stuff, statistics won’t do it.

I don’t see that this is pushing us farther away. It may be spinning our wheels.

576 stabby  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:00:40am

re: #371 Dark_Falcon

There are plenty of conservative experts in macro economics, but we don’t see them as often here. This is because they are less likely to be to be flinging red meat to the online part of the conservative base. They’re more found on places like National Review or the Wall Street Journal, with pieces that feature more detailed arguments than rage boys would find enjoyable reading.

The Republican party has repudiated mainstream economics.

Now they prefer fake economics such as “Libertarian economics” or “Biblical economics”.

577 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:00:52am

re: #572 Mattand

In general, yes. Even a hollow point on a .22 or .22 magnum can basically shred a squirrel (used to use those on red squirrel’s as they were considered “pests” so there was no season on them. In general you used birdshot on small game which was basically various sized BB’s loaded in a shotgun shell. You rarely used a rifle on anything smaller than a rabbit and when you did use a rifle, if it was a larger caliber, you had to take a headshot or there was nothing left.

I recall a hunting trip with my uncle where he shot a rabbit with a .308 (scoped) he hit it in the head, it had ears and skin but no head.

578 allegro  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:01:39am

re: #549 blueraven

Isn’t that a bit of overkill, not to mention non-sportsman like?

It’s also hilariously stupid and pointless. Prairie dogs and gophers live underground. While prairie dogs do emerge to groove on the open air at times (with shooting those that do at any given time being entirely unsuccessful at controlling a problem population), gophers very, very rarely do. What the hell are these great hunters shooting at?

579 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:03:08am

re: #575 Obdicut

I kind of half-agree. But humans work that way. It takes a narrative to get them to do stuff, statistics won’t do it.

I don’t see that this is pushing us farther away. It may be spinning our wheels.

2014 elections. There is a tiny chance of a Dem House, and a good chance that Supreme Court vacancies won’t be filled until we see a different Senate. If Biden and the Pres make this work, well and good. If they try and fail we just pissed away the best chance of a sane government for another half-generation.

580 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:05:03am

re: #571 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

that’s why you don’t use a 7.62 to hunt groundhogs, squirrels or other small game. However a 7.62 is quite good for deer hunting and bigger game. I used to hunt squirrel’s with a .22, rabbit/game birds with a 12guage shotgun, deer with an SKS or a 30.06 (and used that one for bear).

Thank you. What you just posted really was was all I was trying to say.

581 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:06:34am

re: #570 Political Atheist

Again I suggest that we write good effective regulations. Not likely if we lead with emotions and misunderstandings.

How is it a “misunderstanding” to see what a gun actually does?

582 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:09:08am

re: #466 Sol Berdinowitz

I discovered my namesake on FB, a flight mechanic for the RCAF. I pointed out that my uncle (also our namesake) was an amateur pilot who built and flew his own airplane.

RCAF? Sounds like a good Canuck chap.

583 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:10:41am

heh

[Link: hosted.ap.org…]

Palestinian PM warns of cash crisis


The Palestinian self-rule government is in “extreme jeopardy” because of an unprecedented financial crisis, largely because Arab countries have failed to send hundreds of millions of dollars in promised aid, the Palestinian prime minister said Sunday.

European countries kept their aid commitments, he said.

‘magin that

584 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:11:56am

nada re: #582 b_sharp

RCAF? Sounds like a good Canuck chap.

Yes, my granddad came to Iowa from Slovakia, but other brances of the family wound up all over the Midwest and Canada, I have another namesake from Nebraska who is a translator of books on Russian theology.

Which is amusing as I studied Russian and work as a translator.

585 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:14:11am

re: #584 Sol Berdinowitz

nada

Yes, my granddad came to Iowa from Slovakia, but other brances of the family wound up all over the Midwest and Canada, I have another namesake who is a translator of books on Russian theology.

Which is amusing as I studied Russian and work as a translator.

i come from a family of -owitz’s, but my grandfather dropped his when he was graduating from college - supposedly in his yearbook it say that he “lost his ‘witz”

586 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:14:19am

Nominees. Chuck Hagel for Defense and John Brennan for CIA.

587 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:18:43am

re: #585 engineer cat

i come from a family of -owitz’s, but my grandfather dropped his when he was graduating from college - supposedly in his yearbook it say that he “lost his ‘witz”

I have the problem that my granddad (or the Ellis Island officials) changed the spelling of our surmname to make it more pronounceable for Americans. But I moved back to Germany and now the Germans have a terrible time pronouncing it correctly, although the original spelling would be no problem.

588 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:19:02am

re: #586 Gus

Nominees. Chuck Hagel for Defense and John Brennan for CIA.

Predictions: There’ll be fight on Hagel, while Brennan will cruise to an easy confirmation.

589 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:19:29am

Doctors had to remove her intestines. The internal damage was that severe.

Her Name Was: Jyoti Singh Pandey

590 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:19:29am

re: #407 Vicious Babushka

Wingnut Derp of the Day:

EBT cards are being used at strip clubs, liquor stores, sex shops!

Yep, send your money to the RNC instead. They have much more experience using your money at strip clubs, liquor stores, and sex shops. Always go with experience.

591 blueraven  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:19:53am

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

Predictions: There’ll be fight on Hagel, while Brennan will cruise to an easy confirmation.

prediction: Both will be confirmed

592 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:20:09am
593 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:21:00am


594 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:21:53am

Both Republicans. Take that wingnuts!

595 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:21:55am

re: #592 Gus

@BarackObama: Chuck recognizes that American leadership is indispensable in a dangerous world.

We assume he is referring to Mr Norris…

596 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:22:06am

re: #587 Sol Berdinowitz

I have the problem that my granddad (or the Ellis Island officials) changed the spelling of our surmname to make it more pronounceable for Americans. But I moved back to Germany and now the Germans have a terrible time pronouncing it correctly, although the original spelling would be no problem.

we’re jewish - i heard from genealogy people that in poland the jewish versions of the same name would be spelled in the germanized fashion - “-owitz” - and the catholic version would be spelled polish fashion - “-owicz”

597 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:22:16am
598 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:22:32am

Splodey heads!

599 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:23:19am
600 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:23:38am

re: #596 engineer cat

we’re jewish - i heard from genealogy people that in poland the jewish versions of the same name would be spelled in the germanized fashion - “-owitz” - and the catholic version would be spelled polish fashion - “-owicz”

In our case, it involved the “cz”, which was changed to the “ch” sound like “cheese” in English, but for the Germans, a “ch” is a guttural sound, like in “Ach!”

601 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:23:45am

re: #578 allegro

It’s also hilariously stupid and pointless. Prairie dogs and gophers live underground. While prairie dogs do emerge to groove on the open air at times (with shooting those that do at any given time being entirely unsuccessful at controlling a problem population), gophers very, very rarely do. What the hell are these great hunters shooting at?

gasoline down a gopher hole works pretty good according to my in-laws.

602 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:24:23am

re: #581 Interesting Times

How is it a “misunderstanding” to see what a gun actually does?

Because we have to work within the law. The Supreme Court has decided that firearm ownership is an Individual Right. They also pointed out that the government has the right to Regulate.

It seems one side stresses the first and ignores the second point. Others do the opposite.

I for one am tired of the emotional outrage. It will not lead to lives saved. We have to put aside the emotions and use the thinking part of of brains if we are going we want to prevent more suicidal rampages.

603 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:24:38am

re: #601 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

gasoline down a gopher hole works pretty good according to my in-laws.

Now, that is actual cruelty.

604 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:25:14am

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

Predictions: There’ll be fight on Hagel, while Brennan will cruise to an easy confirmation.

Emoprogs won’t be happy with Brennan.

605 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:25:15am

re: #602 FemNaziBitch

Because we have to work within the law. The Supreme Court has decided that firearm ownership is an Individual Right. They also pointed out that the government has the right to Regulate.

It seems one side stresses the first and ignores the second point. Others do the opposite.

I for one am tired of the emotional outrage. It will not lead to lives saved. We have to put aside the emotions and use the thinking part of of brains if we are going we want to prevent more suicidal rampages.

Quite Concur.

606 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:25:18am

re: #601 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

gasoline down a gopher hole works pretty good according to my in-laws.

“Honey, how come you never want to go visit my parents?”

“The appetizers taste like burnt hair and gasoline.”

607 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:26:44am

re: #606 Ghost of Tom Joad

“Honey, how come you never want to go visit my parents?”

“The appetizers taste like burnt hair and gasoline.”

nah, they did it to poison them IIRC.

608 Kragar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:26:52am

Fischer: Modern Assault Weapons the Same as Hunting Rifles used in the American Revolution

We have heard a lot of, well, interesting arguments against a potential ban on assault weapons in order to curb gun violence, and American Family Association spokesman Bryan Fischer wants to add his two cents. He argues that modern-day assault weapons are protected by the Constitution because they’re “nothing more than a fancy-pants hunting rifle” equivalent to what the Founding Fathers “used to defeat the British.” In Fischer’s eyes, there’s no difference between an AR-15 and a musket.

609 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:27:05am

re: #604 Gus

Emoprogs won’t be happy with Brennan.

Emoprogs don’t have enough influence in the Senate to fight a high-level nomination. The Senate leadership of both parties is fine with Brennan, as is the majority of the base of both parties. Thus, he’ll have no problem.

610 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:28:02am

Hagel’s a good choice for defense. I think one thing a president should look for in his Defense Secretary is someone who understands war and I think Hagel understand it as well as any nominee for the spot I’ve seen. Don’t know too much about Brennan. Brennan will coast but Hagel will be controversial even though I think a lot of the stuff is blown out of proportion.

611 Kragar  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:28:33am

Alleged pedophile Larry Klayman: ‘Revolution’ Needed to Bring Down ‘Black-Muslim’ Obama

I’ve been writing about it for over a year. Many of you may have thought that I was just trying to make a point and not serious about it. But, indeed I was always serious, as you should be too – as our Founding Fathers John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and company were serious in the years leading up to the Declaration of Independence in 1776. We no longer have a free nation! We no longer have a functional republic! What choice is there when the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government fail and refuse to take into account the profound grievances of the “We the People” and instead walk off to feather their own corrupt establishment nest?

Second, John Adams (who as a trial lawyer risked his career to successfully defend British soldiers who had been provoked to fire on and kill colonial protesters on Boston Common) and his fellow Founding Fathers were outraged that even after the American legal system had functioned properly and acquitted the British soldiers, King George ordered that all criminal defendants accused of felonies be subsequently tried in British courts in London. The king removed the legal right of the colonies to adjudicate serious crimes committed on American soil. Today, and as just one example among an ever-expanding array of disgraceful illegal acts by our judges on a daily basis, the refusal of courts to hear eligibility challenges concerning the status of Barack Hussein Obama as a “natural born citizen” reinforces the reality that we no longer have a functional legal system. Notwithstanding that the result is a black-Muslim, anti-white, anti-Semitic and anti-Christian “Manchurian candidate” fraudster socialist tyrant in the Oval Office – bent on tearing down and destroying the pillars of our formerly capitalist society – “We the People” have been left defenseless, legally, by the judges who have taken an oath to obey the U.S. Constitution, the law and mete out justice.

In short, our situation – whereby the nation has been intentionally bankrupted by the Democratic and Republican establishment and sold out to the equivalent of biblical money changers in the modern form of special interests who line the pockets of our government representatives with campaign contributions and other forms of cash, legal and illegal, to do their bidding – is far worse than in 1776. And, that is not even to mention the moral decay that has swept the nation and is rotting it from within, as manifested in our generally filthy and degenerate movies, television and music – which have been furthered by government entities like the Federal Communications Commission, whose commissioners come from both political parties.

The time has come after a long line of “abuses and usurpations” for us to rise up and demand that our current so called rulers leave “Dodge City,” or suffer the consequences as King George III was forced to do.

I am currently in a deep contemplative mood on how to try to do this peacefully without resort to violence. The Founding Fathers, however, ultimately concluded that peaceful means were not possible.

We now find ourselves at a similar crossroads with little time to waste before the nation is totally destroyed by its corrupt and degenerate establishment rulers.

612 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:28:45am
613 Obdicut  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:28:48am

re: #579 Decatur Deb

2014 elections. There is a tiny chance of a Dem House, and a good chance that Supreme Court vacancies won’t be filled until we see a different Senate. If Biden and the Pres make this work, well and good. If they try and fail we just pissed away the best chance of a sane government for another half-generation.

I don’t think that this will piss away anything. The change has to come from redistricting, which means winning state-level stuff. Hell, in true realpolitik, this could even work to local Democrats advantage by pushing back on the gun control stuff against the administration, if we want to be totally cynical.

The thing is that the GOP and the NRA have been constantly slugging at Obama for mythical gun-grabs this entire time. Now that some relatively sober regulation is proposed, they’re upping the ante, but it’s the same bullshit they’ve said the whole time.

I don’t think the Democrats win by being cautious on issues, in general, though. I think pusillanimity has been their vice.

614 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:28:53am

re: #610 HappyWarrior

Hagel’s a good choice for defense. I think one thing a president should look for in his Defense Secretary is someone who understands war and I think Hagel understand it as well as any nominee for the spot I’ve seen. Don’t know too much about Brennan. Brennan will coast but Hagel will be controversial even though I think a lot of the stuff is blown out of proportion.

615 allegro  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:28:54am

re: #603 Dark_Falcon

Now, that is actual cruelty.

Naw. All it does is introduce fumes that drives the population into another area.

616 blueraven  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:29:02am

re: #602 FemNaziBitch

Because we have to work within the law. The Supreme Court has decided that firearm ownership is an Individual Right. They also pointed out that the government has the right to Regulate.

It seems one side stresses the first and ignores the second point. Others do the opposite.

I for one am tired of the emotional outrage. It will not lead to lives saved. We have to put aside the emotions and use the thinking part of of brains if we are going we want to prevent more suicidal rampages.

Emotional outrage after 9/11 was never questioned. In fact the opposite occurred…if you were not suitably outraged enough according to the powers that be, you were not a patriot.

Did it go to far? Possibly. But emotional outrage is often a necessary driver for change.

617 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:29:09am

re: #607 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

nah, they did it to poison them IIRC.

Oh…I just equated pouring gasoline down a hole being followed by a lit match.

618 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:29:36am

re: #614 Gus

[Embedded content]

And the maxim: “You can tell a lot about a man by who his critics are” works here too.

619 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:30:07am

re: #602 FemNaziBitch

I for one am tired of the emotional outrage. It will not lead to lives saved. We have to put aside the emotions and use the thinking part of of brains if we are going we want to prevent more suicidal rampages.

I see no evidence of that whatsoever from the NRA nor the republicans they own. As for “putting emotions aside”, should we also prevent the viewing of flag-draped coffins lest it make people just a little squeamish about war? How about stopping cops from displaying wrecked cars in order to illustrate the dangers of driving drunk?

If you want the “thinking” part of your brain to be effective, it needs accurate information about real consequences.

There’s nothing intrinsically “emotional” about a bullet blowing apart a realistic human dummy. But if that’s what it takes for people to understand what a gun objectively does to a human body, so be it.

How else are they going to see guns as something capable of killing human beings instead of a “man card” toy/penis compensation device?

620 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:30:12am

re: #581 Interesting Times

How is it a “misunderstanding” to see what a gun actually does?

Contributing to the ‘misunderstanding’ is PA’s assertion that people are looking for a ‘total ban’ on these guns. They aren’t.

621 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:30:15am

re: #608 Kragar

Fischer: Modern Assault Weapons the Same as Hunting Rifles used in the American Revolution

Yeah because it’s a little known fact that there actually were muskets with 50 round clips that could fire at a rate of 650 RPM.

622 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:31:11am

re: #614 Gus

[Embedded content]

Hey Glenn, see that rope? Go piss up it!

623 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:31:18am

re: #613 Obdicut

I don’t think that this will piss away anything. The change has to come from redistricting, which means winning state-level stuff. Hell, in true realpolitik, this could even work to local Democrats advantage by pushing back on the gun control stuff against the administration, if we want to be totally cynical.

The thing is that the GOP and the NRA have been constantly slugging at Obama for mythical gun-grabs this entire time. Now that some relatively sober regulation is proposed, they’re upping the ante, but it’s the same bullshit they’ve said the whole time.

I don’t think the Democrats win by being cautious on issues, in general, though. I think pusillanimity has been their vice.

Hope you’re right. Otherwise Antonin Scalia, Rand Paul and Michele Bachmann set the next generation’s gun-control policies.

624 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:31:29am

re: #597 Gus

LIES! The Seekrit Kenyan is just saying that to lower our defenses!

Eleventy!

625 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:31:50am

re: #621 dragonfire1981

Yeah because it’s a little known fact that there actually were muskets with 50 round clips that could fire at a rate of 650 RPM.

Somehow I don’t think Fischer knows anything about guns. Just that he thinks that gun ownership has its roots in the Bible which is amusing considering the whole blessed are the peacemakers thing.

626 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:32:14am

re: #608 Kragar

Fischer: Modern Assault Weapons the Same as Hunting Rifles used in the American Revolution

Because an AR-15 is somehow comparable to a musket.

627 bratwurst  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:32:42am

re: #614 Gus

[Embedded content]

Ah yes…somehow I knew that was the chief “emoprog” you were referring to.

628 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:32:56am

re: #625 HappyWarrior

Somehow I don’t think Fischer knows anything about guns. Just that he thinks that gun ownership has its roots in the Bible which is amusing considering the whole blessed are the peacemakers thing.

Let he who is without sin…kick the first ass!

629 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:33:33am

re: #627 bratwurst

Ah yes…somehow I knew that was the chief “emoprog” you were referring to.

He manages to hypnotize his followers very well. Glenn Greenwald is the secret hypnotoad. //

630 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:33:40am

re: #611 Kragar

Alleged pedophile Larry Klayman: ‘Revolution’ Needed to Bring Down ‘Black-Muslim’ Obama

Yeah, you proles go revolt. Larry will bravely sit in front of his computer and write about it.
/

631 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:33:59am
632 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:34:08am

re: #611 Kragar

Alleged pedophile Larry Klayman: ‘Revolution’ Needed to Bring Down ‘Black-Muslim’ Obama

Hope this asshole is the first one down Pennsylvania Avenue, with a Bushmaster.

633 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:34:15am

re: #621 dragonfire1981

Yeah because it’s a little known fact that there actually were muskets with 50 round clips that could fire at a rate of 650 RPM.

The rifles in question are semi-auto only. They are not capable of firing at 650 rounds per minute. AR-15 models capable of doing that are full-auto weapons, which can no longer be manufactured for sale to civilians, while those M-16s remaining in civilian hands are subject to the tight controls imposed by the National Firearms Act.

634 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:34:30am
635 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:35:09am

Best. Endorsement. Ever.

636 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:35:12am

re: #625 HappyWarrior

Somehow I don’t think Fischer knows anything about guns. Just that he thinks that gun ownership has its roots in the Bible which is amusing considering the whole blessed are the peacemakers thing.

A lot of people don’t have an actual dog in this hunt. It’s about pissing off liberals.

637 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:35:16am

re: #633 Dark_Falcon

The rifles in question are semi-auto only. They are not capable of firing at 650 rounds per minute. AR-15 models capable of doing that are full-auto weapons, which can no longer be manufactured for sale to civilians, while those M-16s remaining in civilian hands are subject to the tight controls imposed by the National Firearms Act.

Point still stands that it’s moronic for Fischer to compare today’s assault rifles or frankly any weapon today to the weapons used by the continental army soldiers.

638 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:35:36am
639 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:35:49am

re: #616 blueraven

Emotional outrage after 9/11 was never questioned. In fact the opposite occurred…if you were not suitably outraged enough according to the powers that be, you were not a patriot.

Did it go to far? Possibly. But emotional outrage is often a necessary driver for change.

The emotional outrage after 9/11 did go to far, mostly IMHO because it was driven by those seeking power and money. And they were successful.

As the “false scarcity” tool of marketing is being used right now to the benefit of the gun sellers. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

I’d like to think that maybe, just once, we’d get it right.

640 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:36:12am

re: #635 Lidane

Best. Endorsement. Ever.

[Embedded content]

Codpink? Read the sign. Cod.

641 rwdflynavy  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:36:44am

Howdy Honcos,

A friend of mine’s great grandfather is being celebrated on the Israeli Google site today Eliezer Ben-Yehuda. He worked to reestablish Hebrew among the Jews. My favorite quote: “”Before Ben‑Yehuda, Jews could speak Hebrew; after him, they did.”

642 Lidane  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:36:51am

re: #638 Gus

Piers Morgan is going to take on Alex Jones head on? That should be fun.

643 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:37:36am

re: #642 Lidane

Piers Morgan is going to take on Alex Jones head on? That should be fun.

Yep.

644 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:38:40am

This, this, THIS:

645 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:38:57am

re: #608 Kragar

Fischer: Modern Assault Weapons the Same as Hunting Rifles used in the American Revolution

In Fischer’s eyes, there’s no difference between an AR-15 and a musket.

The let him challenge someone to a duel, he gets a musket and his opponent gets an AR-15, load and fire at 300 yards…

646 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:39:06am

re: #640 Gus

Codpink? Read the sign. Cod.

I like mine baked, lightly breaded with a hint of lemon and dijon!!

647 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:39:06am

re: #640 Gus

Codpink? Read the sign. Cod.

I’ll be damned if I’m typing it in, but is CODPINK.COM their actual website? Or are they becoming the left’s Tea Party in protest-sign spelling and grammar?

648 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:40:04am

re: #617 Ghost of Tom Joad

Oh…I just equated pouring gasoline down a hole being followed by a lit match.

that’s the bill murray method, well more like using TNT but hey, add some gas!

649 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:40:20am

re: #619 Interesting Times

I see no evidence of that whatsoever from the NRA nor the republicans they own. As for “putting emotions aside”, should we also prevent the viewing of flag-draped coffins lest it make people just a little squeamish about war? How about stopping cops from displaying wrecked cars in order to illustrate the dangers of driving drunk?

If you want the “thinking” part of your brain to be effective, it needs accurate information about real consequences.

There’s nothing intrinsically “emotional” about a bullet blowing apart a realistic human dummy. But if that’s what it takes for people to understand what a gun objectively does to a human body, so be it.

How else are they going to see guns as something capable of killing human beings instead of a “man card” toy/penis compensation device?

Somehow, I think the gun nuts know what a bullet can do to a human body and that is exactly why they have guns. It’s a “No one will do that to me or mine” way of thinking. The government will not infringe on MY rights.

They aren’t going to change by any carnage you present to them.

650 bratwurst  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:40:21am

re: #642 Lidane

Piers Morgan is going to take on Alex Jones head on? That should be fun.

Considering Morgan’s typical minuscule audience, and the fact he will be going head to head with the Notre Dame/Alabama national championship game tonight, it’s safe to say that there will be DOZENS of people watching!

651 Gus  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:40:30am

re: #647 Ghost of Tom Joad

I’ll be damned if I’m typing it in, but is CODPINK.COM their actual website? Or are they becoming the left’s Tea Party in protest-sign spelling and grammar?

The latter. Morans I tells ya!

652 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:40:36am

re: #611 Kragar

Alleged pedophile Larry Klayman: ‘Revolution’ Needed to Bring Down ‘Black-Muslim’ Obama

Once again, this is the cental image and message of the Tea Party: that the current legally and fairly elected government is somehow illegal and without authority to govern.

653 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:40:54am

re: #637 HappyWarrior

Point still stands that it’s moronic for Fischer to compare today’s assault rifles or frankly any weapon today to the weapons used by the continental army soldiers.

That point does stand. But the distinction I drew did need to be drawn. People who don’t know about firearms do still refer to semi-automatic rifles as “automatic weapons” at times and from their mistakes much confusion results.

654 rwdflynavy  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:40:54am

re: #648 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

that’s the bill murray method, well more like using TNT but hey, add some gas!

“Licensed by the government of the United Nations to kill gophers”…

655 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:41:07am

re: #641 rwdflynavy

Howdy Honcos,

A friend of mine’s great grandfather is being celebrated on the Israeli Google site today Eliezer Ben-Yehuda. He worked to reestablish Hebrew among the Jews. My favorite quote: “”Before Ben‑Yehuda, Jews could speak Hebrew; after him, they did.”

Somewhere I have a copy of DOD Manual 6055.09-M, DoD Ammunition and Explosives Safety Standards in Hebrew. Got it from the honcho at IMI. Unfortunately the only person in town who can read it is the rabbi, and she’s not interested.

656 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:41:25am

re: #653 Dark_Falcon

That point does stand. But the distinction I drew did need to be drawn. People who don’t know about firearms do still refer to semi-automatic rifles as “automatic weapons” at times and from their mistakes much confusion results.

Fair enough.

657 blueraven  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:41:36am

re: #639 FemNaziBitch

The emotional outrage after 9/11 did go to far, mostly IMHO because it was driven by those seeking power and money. And they were successful.

As the “false scarcity” tool of marketing is being used right now to the benefit of the gun sellers. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

I’d like to think that maybe, just once, we’d get it right.

Agree. But without the emotional outrage at the outset, nothing would get done. It does need to be tempered with smart, realistic policy.
Just like 9/11, we can not forget the carnage visited upon 6 and 7 year old children, in what should be one of the safest places in America.

Nothing changes without suitable outrage.

658 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:42:01am

re: #633 Dark_Falcon

The rifles in question are semi-auto only. They are not capable of firing at 650 rounds per minute. AR-15 models capable of doing that are full-auto weapons, which can no longer be manufactured for sale to civilians, while those M-16s remaining in civilian hands are subject to the tight controls imposed by the National Firearms Act.

Have you read the two bills up before the Illinois Congress? They do not match in any way the rhetoric being put out about them by the NRA or the ISRA.

659 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:44:28am

re: #657 blueraven

Agree. But without the emotional outrage at the outset, nothing would get done. It does need to be tempered with smart, realistic policy.
Just like 9/11, we can not forget the carnage visited upon 6 and 7 year old children, in what should be one of the safest places in America.

Nothing changes without suitable outrage.

Yes, you are right. But it seems that when the outrage dissipates, so does the attention to the boring stuff like writing policy. The public is off on it’s next drama fix.

660 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:44:37am

re: #649 FemNaziBitch

Somehow, I think the gun nuts know what a bullet can do to a human body and that is exactly why they have guns. It’s a “No one will do that to me or mine” way of thinking. The government will not infringe on MY rights.

They aren’t going to change by any carnage you present to them.

Not interested in changing the gun nuts (aka doing the impossible). Interested in awakening people who don’t realize how much power those nuts have, and how much of a threat those nuts and their firepower fetish pose to the rest of us.

661 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:44:58am

re: #644 Interesting Times

This, this, THIS:

[Embedded content]

Definitely. Where were the Log Cabin R’s when Romney was pandering to anti-gay bigotry in the election cycle? Hagel’s actions with Hormel sucked I won’t lie but it seems that he really is sincere about having been wrong about Hormel. This outrage is only because Obama chose Hagel.

662 rwdflynavy  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:45:02am

re: #659 FemNaziBitch

Yes, you are right. But it seems that when the outrage dissipates, so does the attention to the boring stuff like writing policy. The public is off on it’s next drama fix.

Well, the new “Bachelor” does start tonight…
//

663 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:46:00am

re: #660 Interesting Times

Not interested in changing the gun nuts (aka doing the impossible). Interested in awakening people who don’t realize how much power those nuts have, and how much of a threat those nuts and their firepower fetish pose to the rest of us.

Well, there goes any chance of working together.

Which is the only way effective change will happen.

664 AMER1CAN  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:48:01am

I’m a gun owner and gun advocate and I have 2 small boys. I really hope something can be done to make the nation safer and still let sane people own guns and assault rifles. I wish I had some solutions. I recently had this discussion with my wife and neither of us had any really solid answers. It’s a tragedy when kids are murdered at school and I can say I would do anything to prevent those events from happening. Including giving up my guns.

If you are going to allow guns to be sold then there must be extremely tight restrictions on who can own a gun, how it’s stored, and yearly training/consulting/register. You have to register a car every year so why not guns? I walked into Academy Sports two weeks ago and bought a new Taurus 9mm gun and the whole process took only 20 minutes. Maybe the gun should be delivered to local police station and I can pickup from there and go through some safety training. Just a thought.

665 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:48:03am

re: #658 FemNaziBitch

Have you read the two bills up before the Illinois Congress? They do not match in any way the rhetoric being put out about them by the NRA or the ISRA.

That is a topic for another time. I’d want support before discussing them.

666 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:50:01am

re: #665 Dark_Falcon

That is a topic for another time.

Just like those ‘criminal gangs,’ eh?

667 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:52:22am

re: #665 Dark_Falcon

That is a topic for another time. I’d want support before discussing them.

I’m not saying I totally support the bills, I would like to acknowlege is that the rhetoric is more than misleading and is counterproductive to rational change.

668 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:52:37am

re: #666 makeitstop

Just like those ‘criminal gangs,’ eh?

More like, i don’t want to argue something like that on the wrong end of 6-1. I want some people here in my corner to back me up.

669 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:55:25am

re: #667 FemNaziBitch

I’m not saying I totally support the bills, I would like to acknowlege is that the rhetoric is more than misleading and is counterproductive to rational change.

The bills as originally introduced were worse than what they have become. As originally written, they indeed would have banned a WWI Luger because it can accept a high capacity feed device (the 32-round ‘snail’ magazine).

I do agree with you about the need to avoid misleading and inflammatory rhetoric.

670 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 11:16:16am

re: #664 AMER1CAN

You sound very reasonable. What the heck does the statement in your profile mean?

The armies of Christ will rise again

I didn’t know Christ had armies.

671 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 11:42:32am
I’m a gun owner and gun advocate and I have 2 small boys. I really hope something can be done to make the nation safer and still let sane people own guns and assault rifles. I wish I had some solutions. I recently had this discussion with my wife and neither of us had any really solid answers. It’s a tragedy when kids are murdered at school and I can say I would do anything to prevent those events from happening. Including giving up my guns.

Then do. Seriously. Do.

No, it probably won’t change anything by itself. The odds of your guns specifically harming anyone are small. (Then again, that’s what Nancy Lanza thought.) And I hate the thought of someone having to give up something that brings them joy for the greater good of society, especially when it seems like they are trying to do the right thing.

But just like changing lightbulbs, saving energy, recycling, and the other little things that we do, it’s not about what each individual person’s trash, or guns, change. It’s about changing society and their attitudes. And the real killer in the American Gun Cult is that ordinary people believe that guns are magic wands that make them safer and give them freedom, so they want them around.

They don’t. You are 43 times more likely to have that gun shoot a family member than a criminal. You are more likely to be shot if you are carrying a gun. You aren’t safer. Yes, the temptation is to view this as another ‘good guy’ giving up guns. It’s not. It’s kicking a harmful addiction, like cigarettes and alcohol. And that’s what is needed - not one guy giving up guns, but one by one, people getting used to the idea that their guns aren’t magic totems, just dangerous objects that they’ve been addicted to for far too long.

No, giving up your guns won’t bring anyone back. It won’t bring the kids back to open their Christmas presents. It probably won’t save any lives directly. But it might. It might prevent you from being the next statistic of a law-abiding gun owner where something tragic happens and they shoot a family member, or their gun goes missing and kills a bunch of kids. And it will be another American doing the right thing. The upside of keeping your guns is small - you’ll have some entertainment and something to talk about on forums. And the potential downside is probably nothing, but possibly very, very bad.

Kick the habit. Please.

672 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 11:57:39am

re: #670 wrenchwench

You sound very reasonable. What the heck does the statement in your profile mean?

I didn’t know Christ had armies.

Why does G-d need an army?

673 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:46:27pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

I’ve believed I’m going there for a long time.

You are such a fatalistic coward DF, if you do not like who you are, and you do not like where you are going, feel free to try and change.


The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveler returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?

It can mean the future just as easily as it means death.

674 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 7, 2013 1:39:44pm

re: #673 jamesfirecat

Flinging an insult after the person in question has left the thread is rather churlish, James.


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