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Breaking: Shooting at Taft High School in California - Update: School Had Armed Deputy on Duty

And again
Crime • Views: 25,660

Not many details yet, but it looks like we have another school shooting: BREAKING NEWS: Reports of Shooting at Taft High School.

At least two people were shot at Taft High School Thursday morning. It happened at about 9 a.m. and as of 9:30, students had been evacuated to the football field and there were reports one person was in custody.

Details were still sketchy at 9:45 a.m. but the Sheriff’s Department has confirmed a shooter is in custody and at least two people have been wounded.

Hall Ambulance dispatched three ambulances and a medevac helicopter. 

UPDATE at 1/10/13 10:37:11 am

10:15 A.m. UPDATE: Victim Airlifted From Taft High School | KGET TV 17

Sheriff’s officials say two people have been shot at Taft High School. We are also told someone has been taken into custody.

Kern County Fire officials say one victim received only minor injuries and refused treatment at the scene, the other person was airlifted to Kern Medical Center with unknown injuries.

The reports started coming in at 9:00 a.m. Deputies are now on scene at the school. Earlier, they told 17 News they were doing a room-to-room search.They say the scene is still not secured.

UPDATE at 1/10/13 11:10:33 am

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296 comments

1 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:10:41am

Well that tears it, we need to get rid of Gun Free Zones!

2 darthstar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:10:57am

Snark fails me.

3 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:11:40am

See, it didn’t happen in Arizona, therefore armed posses of over-armed morons patrolling the streets works!/

4 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:13:49am
5 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:17:25am

Does this mean we can’t discuss gun control today?

6 darthstar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:18:53am

re: #5 wrenchwench

Does this mean we can’t discuss gun control today?

Clock is reset…it’s too soon…again.

7 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:25:05am

ANOTHER OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTE

No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (Quotation)

This sentence comes from Thomas Jefferson’s three drafts of the Virginia Constitution. The text does vary slightly in each draft:

First Draft: “No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”[1]

Second Draft: “No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements].”[2]

Third Draft: “No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands or tenements]”[3]

This sentence does not appear in the Virginia Constitution as adopted.

Note: This sentence is often seen paired with the following: “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” That sentence does not appear in the Virginia Constitution drafts or text as adopted, nor in any other Jefferson writings that we know of.

Also, “freeman” was used to mean “somebody who is not a slave”

8 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:26:18am

re: #5 wrenchwench

Does this mean we can’t discuss gun control today?

Too soon. Too soon.

9 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:26:36am

The shooting came just as VP Joe Biden was set to meet with representatives from gun owners’ groups (1:45PM). He’d been meeting since 11:45 with sportsmen and women and wildlife interest groups as part of the Administration’s effort to develop policy proposals after the Newtown massacre.

Expect the usual suspects to claim that the US government is preparing to confiscate guns, even circulating a claim that the military has drawn up plans to confiscate guns, even though gun control does not mean gun confiscation.

The gun lobby has no intention of wanting to reduce the number of guns sold, and every attempt at a registration/management scheme to prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands is met with a selling binge, which has to make one wonder who is buying all these additional guns as though they’re suddenly going to sprout new hands and arms to fire all of their cache simultaneously.

They want to perpetuate the existing system, which isn’t so much of a system as an engine to higher gun manufacturer profits. They’ve found that the current level of violence is perfectly acceptable - claiming that it is the fault of Hollywood or video games ring hollow when these same manufacturers have no problem licensing their designs to the same video games and Hollywood types to derive even greater profits and royalties.

If manufacturers and wholesalers/distributors were held liable for firearms that came through the supply chain and ended up used in crimes (such as firearms that get diverted or are sold in sham sales), you’d be damned sure that they’d be all for any kind of database to prevent/limit their liability going forward.

10 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:31:43am

re: #9 lawhawk

That’s impossible, given that the manufacturers don’t control the dealers and in some cases it takes years before the gun is used in a crime.

11 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:34:43am

If you held dealers liable, they too would have a vested interest in not seeing these guns in to the wrong hands.

12 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:36:01am

re: #5 wrenchwench

Does this mean we can’t discuss gun control today?

NOW IS NOT THE TIME!

Now lets talk about how video games, mental health and failing to give proper praise to the sky spirits are the real problem.

13 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:37:02am

re: #11 lawhawk

If you held dealers liable, they too would have a vested interest in not seeing these guns in to the wrong hands.

That might be legally doable.

14 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:37:09am

As an aside, I’m seeing some craziness from the right wing over the fact that President Obama just signed into law a provision granting presidents lifetime Secret Service protection.

They just ignore the fact that Congress passed the bill that the President is signing and that it returns coverage to the way it was before the law was amended in 1997. It’s the way it should have been all along. The President and his/her family remains a target even after leaving office.

15 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:37:59am

re: #11 lawhawk

If you held dealers liable, they too would have a vested interest in not seeing these guns in to the wrong hands.

That itself would be thorny due to circumstances that a dealer can’t foresee. Would holding the dealer who sold Nancy Lanza her arsenal really accomplish much?

16 Geoff with a G  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:38:53am

re: #14 lawhawk

Any links to how/why the law was changed in 1997?

17 iossarian  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:39:05am

re: #15 Targetpractice

That itself would be thorny due to circumstances that a dealer can’t foresee. Would holding the dealer who sold Nancy Lanza her arsenal really accomplish much?

Yes. It would basically make it very, very hard/expensive to sell anyone a gun.

Which would be an awesome outcome, if you’re the type of person who doesn’t like to see people get shot and killed for no good reason.

18 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:39:42am

Okay, to recap - if you hold all those in the supply chain - from manufacturers to wholesales to dealers financially liable for crimes committed with firearms, particularly those that get diverted from proper sales channels via sham sales, they’d be damned sure to make any kind of registration/database system work since it would end up limiting their downside liability.

19 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:39:56am

Instead of a serious discussion about gun control, teabaggers will be bringing up ‘Chicago’ and ‘Abortions’ in 5…4…3…2….1….

20 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:40:18am

re: #15 Targetpractice

That itself would be thorny due to circumstances that a dealer can’t foresee. Would holding the dealer who sold Nancy Lanza her arsenal really accomplish much?

That is why you would have an investigation. Did the dealer perform due diligence before making the sale? In many cases, probably yes, and the dealer would not have to face charges, but it could have a real impact in other cases.

21 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:41:19am

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

That’s impossible, given that the manufacturers don’t control the dealers and in some cases it takes years before the gun is used in a crime.

Have to agree here, it’s not like the tobacco companies who knowingly lied to their customers and therefore can be held liable for people dieing from their products.

Again, they need a way to stamp each weapon with a serial # that can’t be altered or removed in any way. Every weapon made needs to be registered, and that registration has to be changed every time a weapon is sold or gifted to another person (I’d say it would need to be changed before the buyer receives the weapon so that the seller is not held liable). Make the holder of the registration responsible for the weapon used in a crime unless that weapon was stolen from a secure place (would obviously require some significant definitions of “secure place” etc. but it’s doable).

Make every transaction require proper I.D. (driver’s license). If you have no driver’s license, have to apply for a firearms permit of some kind. They can make it all free if they want. Obvious caveats of criminal records etc. apply.

That in no way infringes on any perceived “rights.”

22 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:41:32am

January 10, 2013 10:00 AM
Unhinged Tactical Response CEO Threatens to ‘Start Killing People’ Over Obama’s Gun Control

“Vice President [Joe] Biden is asking the president to bypass Congress and use executive privilege, executive order to ban assault rifles and to impose stricter gun control,” Yeager explained in his video message. “Fuck that.”

“I’m telling you that if that happens, it’s going to spark a civil war, and I’ll be glad to fire the first shot. I’m not putting up with it. You shouldn’t put up with it. And I need all you patriots to start thinking about what you’re going to do, load your damn mags, make sure your rifle’s clean, pack a backpack with some food in it and get ready to fight.”

The CEO concluded: “I’m not fucking putting up with this. I’m not letting my country be ruled by a dictator. I’m not letting anybody take my guns! If it goes one inch further, I’m going to start killing people.”

23 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:41:45am

re: #15 Targetpractice

That itself would be thorny due to circumstances that a dealer can’t foresee. Would holding the dealer who sold Nancy Lanza her arsenal really accomplish much?

Sure. It would be a defacto ban. You think anyone would be able to get insurance for that? I’m sure the concept will be very popular here as a result.

24 Geoff with a G  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:42:29am

re: #16 geoffm33

It looks like the law was passed in 1994, to take effect in 1997. I’ll update if I find a link, the wikipedia reference link is dead.

25 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:42:30am

re: #20 Kragar

That is why you would have an investigation. Did the dealer perform due diligence before making the sale? In many cases, probably yes, and the dealer would not have to face charges, but it could have a real impact in other cases.

It would be an added expense that I think most supporters of such efforts would have a hard time justifying. For every Spengler who got his arms through a straw purchase, there’s the Lanzas and Roberts (Clackamas shooter) who just steal their buddy’s gun and go on a rampage.

26 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:43:21am

re: #22 Gus

I suppose he has no one specific in mind to threaten. Just “people.”

27 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:43:46am

re: #26 jaunte

I suppose he has no one specific in mind to threaten. Just “people.”

Sounds like a spree killer to me.

28 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:44:08am

The “people” need to throw a net over that guy.

29 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:46:31am

Erik Rush is quickly becoming my favorite hyperventilating moron.

Erik Rush: ‘Supernatural Evil’ and ‘Mind-Control’ Behind Rise of the Left

Aside from the political and economic upheaval that is now taking place, aspects of the deleterious cultural transformation have become quite surreal. Transvestites, vulgarity, foul-mouthed children, promiscuity, criminality and other forms of sociopathy now permeate our broadcast airwaves. One needs but watch an hour or two of television at any period of the day to affirm this. In particular, the television programming targeting children and young adults is clearly calculated to engender moral ambivalence, narcissism, opportunism and predation. It was gratifying, if too long in coming, when this week Fox News contributor Dr. Keith Ablow reported that “We are raising a generation of deluded narcissists.” One wonders why parents haven’t been screaming this from the rooftops for years.

The determination with which liberals are now advancing economic imprudence, immoderation, immorality, intolerance, racism and deviance simply boggles the mind. Even pedophilia is apparently on the table. This creates cognitive dissonance because it represents a culture of death (perhaps this also explains liberals’ affinity for Islam). Those who question the wisdom of this cultural descent are attacked as being bigoted, and these attacks – particularly against the religious – have become far more vicious.

I may be going out on a limb here, but given the experiences I have had – not my opinion – I firmly believe this exponentially rapid slide we are seeing has its roots in true supernatural evil, that which the spiritual and religious readily acknowledge but which many Americans have difficulty reconciling with the material world and current events. I know that this has become increasingly apparent to those who already hold such a worldview.

It’s easy for people to subscribe to the idea that powerful individuals or organizations are somehow aligned with evil, but more difficult to accept the idea that people in general – friends, relatives, neighbors, social-media trolls – are being directly influenced by malevolent forces. And while I haven’t discounted the possibility of mind-control protocols having been employed on certain individuals lately, I believe it is altogether possible that some of the seemingly random violence we are witnessing may have its genesis in the influence to which I refer.

30 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:46:55am

re: #22 Gus

January 10, 2013 10:00 AM
Unhinged Tactical Response CEO Threatens to ‘Start Killing People’ Over Obama’s Gun Control

Great job, dickhead. He just put a huge exclamation point behind the whole idea of gun control and doesn’t even know it. He’s just going to start shooting people because of some perceived infringement on what he thinks is happening.

They need to start IQ testing people before purchasing weapons. There has to be some correlation between low IQ (stupid people) and how well-armed they are.

31 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:47:04am

re: #15 Targetpractice

That itself would be thorny due to circumstances that a dealer can’t foresee. Would holding the dealer who sold Nancy Lanza her arsenal really accomplish much?

Of course the dealer would not always be found liable, but I think they would be in certain cases. If bartenders and wait staff can be liable for ‘over serving’ to someone who subsequently drives drunk, I think a gun dealer can be held responsible for selling a gun used in a crime if they didn’t do their job correctly.

32 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:49:00am

re: #31 wrenchwench

Yes - it’s the equivalent of the dram shop liability laws already in effect in many states for serving alcohol to persons who then go on to engage in criminal acts (typically DUI).

33 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:50:01am

re: #30 Ghost of Tom Joad

Shaved head, stupid goatee, dumb tats, semi-literate incoherent gruntings.

A wild douchebag in its native environment.

34 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:51:00am

re: #33 Kragar

He’s a ‘tactical’ douchebag.

35 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:51:10am

re: #31 wrenchwench

Of course the dealer would not always be found liable, but I think they would be in certain cases. If bartenders and wait staff can be liable for ‘over serving’ to someone who subsequently drives drunk, I think a gun dealer can be held responsible for selling a gun used in a crime if they didn’t do their job correctly.

Are we now going to ask gun dealers to be amateur psychologists, holding them responsible if they don’t refuse to sell a gun to the guy who’s “really quiet”?

36 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:51:24am

re: #23 William Barnett-Lewis

I’m sure the concept will be very popular here as a result.

Not universally, though. Make your case, don’t broad-brush your audience.

37 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:52:42am

re: #33 Kragar

I hate to denigrate based on looks…but he’s just a perfect prototype for “ignorant gun-nut.” Guy just has upstanding citizen written all over him.

38 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:52:58am

re: #35 Targetpractice

Are we now going to ask gun dealers to be amateur psychologists, holding them responsible if they don’t refuse to sell a gun to the guy who’s “really quiet”?

No. We’re going to hold them liable if they fudge on the paper work, or sell under the table, or fail to report obvious cases of straw purchasing.

40 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:53:27am

Eric Bolling: Schools ‘pushing the liberal agenda’ by teaching algebra

Fox News host Eric Bolling on Wednesday accused some schools of “pushing the liberal agenda” for teaching an algebra lesson about the distributive property.

During a segment about “indoctrination in schools,” Bolling reminded viewers of a 2009 video of children chanting, “Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Barack Hussein Obama,” which outraged conservatives at the time.

“But even worse is the way some textbooks are pushing the liberal agenda,” the Fox News host explained, pointing to an algebra worksheet that Scholastic says gives students “nsight into the distributive property as it applies to multiplication.”

MATH IS THE DEVIL!

41 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:53:32am

re: #35 Targetpractice

No, but if they don’t follow procedures, or the transaction may be a sham sale (two people at counter, but the one who signs for the weapon isn’t the one who’s examining/studying/trying the weapon out for instance), then that’s something that should raise eyebrows in the store.

42 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:53:40am

re: #38 wrenchwench

No. We’re going to hold them liable if they fudge on the paper work, or sell under the table, or fail to report obvious cases of straw purchasing.

That’s shit that already carries criminal penalties, which is why it’s usually the subject of any investigation into a gun-related homicide.

43 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:54:48am

re: #37 Ghost of Tom Joad

I hate to denigrate based on looks…but he’s just a perfect prototype for “ignorant gun-nut.” Guy just has upstanding citizen written all over him.

You can’t always judge a book by its cover… but sometimes you can.

44 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:54:58am

Sam Stein tweets: Taft High School does have a uniform deputy sheriff monitoring campus “before, during and after school.”

45 BongCrodny  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:56:21am

re: #29 Kragar

Erik Rush is quickly becoming my favorite hyperventilating moron.

Erik Rush: ‘Supernatural Evil’ and ‘Mind-Control’ Behind Rise of the Left

See, he says “supernatural evil” because if he said “the Devil,” people would think he was crazy.

46 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:56:32am
47 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:57:04am

re: #46 Kragar

Actual motherfu*king snake spotted on actual motherfu*king plane

That’s what happens when you don’t listen to me / Samuel l. Jackson

48 iossarian  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:57:39am

re: #43 Kragar

You can’t always judge a book by its cover… but sometimes you can.

My best man has a good line on that:

“Of course you can judge a book by its cover. That’s what the damn thing is for.”

49 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:58:09am

re: #42 Targetpractice

That’s shit that already carries criminal penalties, which is why it’s usually the subject of any investigation into a gun-related homicide.

Does the penalty relate in any way to the crime committed with the gun? Or just a violation of the rules? If they’re partly responsible for the crime committed with the gun, I think that would create increased cooperation with the process. And cause some dealers to get out of the business.

50 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:58:33am
51 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:58:33am

re: #45 BongCrodny

See, he says “supernatural evil” because if he said “the Devil,” people would think he was crazy.

It could be Cthulhu. It could be Hastur. It could be Baphomet, Tiamat, or Ba’al. He’s not one to rush to judgement and just claim its the Devil without any real evidence. He’s openminded enough to admit that.

52 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 10:58:35am

re: #46 Kragar

Actual motherfu*king snake spotted on actual motherfu*king plane

It survived? How in the hell? It’s way below freezing up there, unless it was against a warm part of the engine…and how the hell it get up there?

53 Geoff with a G  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:00:12am

re: #42 Targetpractice

That’s shit that already carries criminal penalties, which is why it’s usually the subject of any investigation into a gun-related homicide.

Three areas where Biden and NRA can find common ground

Finally, President Obama could order the Justice Department to increase the prosecutions of people who falsify information on their gun background checks. In 2009, the FBI reported 71,000 instances of people lying on their background checks to buy guns. But the Justice Department prosecuted just 77 cases — that’s about 1/10th of 1%. A lack of follow through from the federal government is letting these gun criminals walk, and that sends a message about lack of enforcement that only encourages systematic disrespect for existing gun laws.

…I’m sure the same goes for dealers that ignore these sham sales , etc as mentioned previously. Is it the case that the laws are already in place just not being enforced?

54 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:00:52am

re: #9 lawhawk

The lines are being drawn: 100,000 new NRA members in 18 days

55 darthstar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:01:03am

re: #46 Kragar

Actual motherfu*king snake spotted on actual motherfu*king plane

When snakes on planes are outlawed, only outlaws will have snakes on planes.

56 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:01:07am

re: #49 wrenchwench

Does the penalty relate in any way to the crime committed with the gun? Or just a violation of the rules? If they’re partly responsible for the crime committed with the gun, I think that would create increased cooperation with the process. And cause some dealers to get out of the business.

It’s like Will said, it would be a defacto ban because most gun dealers would be unable to get insurance to sign off on such restrictions. When any gun you sell might make you liable for criminal penalties a decade down the road, why take the risk?

57 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:02:05am

re: #53 geoffm33

Three areas where Biden and NRA can find common ground

…I’m sure the same goes for dealers that ignore these sham sales , etc as mentioned previously. Is it the case that the laws are already in place just not being enforced?

Police are too busy busting somebody for smoking a joint. Because somebody with a bad case of the munchies that just wants a hug is the real danger in America.

58 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:02:10am

re: #55 darthstar

When snakes on planes are outlawed, only outlaws will have snakes on planes.

Snake fangs don’t bite people on a plane. Snakes do.

59 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:02:18am

Another one. Damn it.

60 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:02:38am

re: #56 Targetpractice

It’s like Will said, it would be a defacto ban because most gun owners would be unable to get insurance to sign off on such restrictions. When any gun you sell might make you liable for criminal penalties a decade down the road, why take the risk?

Do your job, cover all your bases, and you won’t be held liable. There are still plenty of places that serve alcohol.

61 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:02:45am

re: #40 Kragar

Eric Bolling: Schools ‘pushing the liberal agenda’ by teaching algebra

MATH IS THE DEVIL!

Comprehension FAIL. The ‘distributive property’ is a math concept that has nothing to do with economic redistribution.

62 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:03:10am

Obama’s long list of Fascist Executive Orders Used to Take Away Our FreedomsTM:

- Directing the DOJ to prosecute more “prohibited purchasers” when they attempt to buy guns. In 2009, the FBI referred 71,000 cases of thse buyers, mostly felons. U.S. attorneys prosecuted only 77 cases.

- Appointing a permanent ATF director. The ATF has spooked the right ever since Ruby Ridge (before, too, but that’s when the real agita started), and the Senate hasn’t confirmed a permanent director since 2006.

- Requiring federal agencies to report mental health records. The NICS Improvement Act of 2007, passed after the Virginia Tech shootings, requires this. It hardly ever happens.

63 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:04:03am
64 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:04:07am

re: #60 wrenchwench

Do your job, cover all your bases, and you won’t be held liable. There are still plenty of places that serve alcohol.

Difference is that you don’t stay drunk for years off one binge. If you did, bartenders would be out of business. When the product you sell has a shelf-life measured in decades, the possibility of criminal liability for selling it is a massive disincentive.

65 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:04:11am

re: #53 geoffm33

Three areas where Biden and NRA can find common ground

…I’m sure the same goes for dealers that ignore these sham sales , etc as mentioned previously. Is it the case that the laws are already in place just not being enforced?

This:

In 2009, the FBI reported 71,000 instances of people lying on their background checks to buy guns. But the Justice Department prosecuted just 77 cases — that’s about 1/10th of 1%.

…shows that there is room for improvement. Better enforcement and new penalties will help.

66 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:04:15am

Update on NY bomb suspect: Initial reports that he was affiliated with OWS, attended Harvard and had no plan for the explosives, haven’t panned out. Now it seems he’s a Nazi
Police: NYC man planned to ‘blow up’ park arch

A man accused of keeping bomb-making materials in his Greenwich Village apartment told acquaintances late last year that he planned to blow up the Washington Square Park arch, police said Thursday.

The acquaintances have also informed police that in another encounter with Aaron Greene, they saw him sprinkle white powder on the sidewalk inside the park and ignite it, said Paul Browne, chief spokesman for the New York Police Department.

Investigators believe the powder was hexamethylene triperoxide diamine, or HMTD, a highly explosive ingredient used in bomb making that was discovered last month in the apartment Greene shared with his girlfriend, Morgan Gliedman, Browne said.

Though Greene’s motives remain unclear, investigators have uncovered undated letters that he wrote, including one with the words “kill them all” and signed with a Nazi SS lightning bolt symbol still used by neo-Nazi groups, police said. Other witnesses also have told police that they heard him boast that his grandfather was a Nazi, they added.

Based on statements made by Greene, police searched the Orangeburg, N.Y., home of one of his childhood friends, a suspended jail guard, on Wednesday, Browne said. Officers recovered several weapons, including nearly two dozen guns and a switchblade, he said.

67 Mattand  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:04:28am

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Bill calling for study of violent video games is dead, but will be reintroduced this month

AKA, Blaming videogames is easier than dealing with gun laws.

68 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:04:44am

re: #40 Kragar

Eric Bolling: Schools ‘pushing the liberal agenda’ by teaching algebra

MATH IS THE DEVIL!

Now, now Mr. Bolling just because you failed Algebra doesn’t mean it’s liberal indoctrination. Really who are these people? Algebra is liberal indoctrination? What isn’t liberal indoctrination to these people?

69 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:05:18am

re: #66 Killgore Trout

Update on NY bomb suspect: Initial reports that he was affiliated with OWS, attended Harvard and had no plan for the explosives, haven’t panned out. Now it seems he’s a Nazi
Police: NYC man planned to ‘blow up’ park arch

Ah. So he’s with the far-right.

70 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:05:37am

re: #67 Mattand

Don’t look at me. I’m just following orders. /Master Chief

71 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:05:47am

re: #64 Targetpractice

Difference is that you don’t stay drunk for years off one binge. If you did, bartenders would be out of business. When the product you sell has a shelf-life measured in decades, the possibility of criminal liability for selling it is a massive disincentive.

So add a time limit. Don’t just say ‘it can’t work.’

72 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:06:08am

re: #60 wrenchwench

Do your job, cover all your bases, and you won’t be held liable. There are still plenty of places that serve alcohol.

In theory, but in practice there’s always some prosecutor or personal injury lawyer looking to ‘push the boundaries’, and juries do sometimes convict on bullshit cases. It would amount to a major burden on gun dealers.

73 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:06:41am

re: #40 Kragar

Eric Bolling: Schools ‘pushing the liberal agenda’ by teaching algebra

MATH IS THE DEVIL!

A2 + B2 = TEH HITLER2!!!!

74 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:07:02am

re: #71 wrenchwench

So add a time limit. Don’t just say ‘it can’t work.’

Okay, so a year. The dealer who sold to Nancy Lanza’s off the hook. A month? Holmes and Loughner’s dealers are off the hook.

75 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:07:06am

Seriously, the Distributive Property? Bah it’s too early for schnapps and beer. Seriously that makes me want to weep and I hated math.

76 steve_davis  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:07:55am

“We interrupt our regularly scheduled discusion of a school shooting in Newtown to bring you breaking news on another school shooting….”

77 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:08:18am

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

In theory, but in practice there’s always some prosecutor or personal injury lawyer looking to ‘push the boundaries’, and juries do sometimes convict on bullshit cases. It would amount to a major burden on gun dealers.

They’re selling guns. They have a major burden of responsibility because of that. Yes, bad prosecutions happen. Right now though, no prosecutions happen. Let’s have some good prosecutions, and be concerned about bad ones if and when they occur.

78 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:08:20am
79 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:08:41am

re: #74 Targetpractice

Okay, so a year. The dealer who sold to Nancy Lanza’s off the hook. A month? Holmes and Loughner’s dealers are off the hook.

If they all followed the regs, everybody’s off the hook.

80 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:08:43am

re: #64 Targetpractice

Difference is that you don’t stay drunk for years off one binge. If you did, bartenders would be out of business. When the product you sell has a shelf-life measured in decades, the possibility of criminal liability for selling it is a massive disincentive.

Just so. Should a gun dealer be blamed if man legally buys a gun, passes the NICS check, and then 2 years later uses the gun to kill his wife in a domestic dispute?

81 darthstar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:08:54am

re: #73 Dr. Matt

A2 + B2 = TEH HITLER2!!!!

I’m glad Pythagorus is dead.

82 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:08:57am

Then again should we really be surprised since we have people treating the Theory of Evolution as just a “theory” because they act like theory in science is the same as saying “I have a theory who stole the cookies while everyone was asleep last night.” I mean this is all basic stuff. As a humanities major and minor, I had very little upper level mathematics and science stuff and even I know it.

83 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:09:01am

re: #74 Targetpractice

Okay, so a year. The dealer who sold to Nancy Lanza’s off the hook. A month? Holmes and Loughner’s dealers are off the hook.

We don’t know if they ever were on the hook. Maybe they did everything right.

84 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:09:15am

re: #81 darthstar

I’m glad Pythagorus is dead.

That sounds like a foreign name!

85 Tigger2  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:09:18am

re: #19 Dr. Matt

Instead of a serious discussion about gun control, teabaggers will be bringing up ‘Chicago’ and ‘Abortions’ in 5…4…3…2….1….

Or the Guns don’t kill people Video Games do.

86 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:09:33am

re: #83 wrenchwench

We don’t know if they ever were on the hook. Maybe they did everything right.

If they hadn’t, the cops would have their asses behind bars too.

87 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:10:36am

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

Just so. Should a gun dealer be blamed if man legally buys a gun, passes the NICS check, and then 2 years later uses the gun to kill his wife in a domestic dispute?

No. He’s not required to predict the future, just to follow all the rules. It’s when the dealer fudges on the NCIS check that he’s blamed.

88 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:10:52am

Okay since Bolling’s bitching about the “distributive property of mathematics” because of the word distribute. Someone please let him know that the word welfare is in the Constitution.

89 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:11:08am

re: #77 wrenchwench

They’re selling guns. They have a major burden of responsibility because of that. Yes, bad prosecutions happen. Right now though, no prosecutions happen. Let’s have some good prosecutions, and be concerned about bad ones if and when they occur.

I think not. The whole nature of criminal justice is that the additional investigations would run many dealers out of business. Lawyers are expensive, and one cannot rely on having followed the law to protect oneself from an indictment.

90 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:11:22am

re: #86 Targetpractice

If they hadn’t, the cops would have their asses behind bars too.

But for breaking a paperwork rule, not for the crime committed with the gun.

91 steve_davis  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:12:30am

re: #19 Dr. Matt

Instead of a serious discussion about gun control, teabaggers will be bringing up ‘Chicago’ and ‘Abortions’ in 5…4…3…2….1….

My, aren’t you generous. I would think it would be more like “Chicago” and “Abortions” in 1…..

92 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:13:04am

re: #91 steve_davis

I thought it was just holy spankings./

93 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:13:07am

re: #67 Mattand

It’s easier, fewer political pitfalls, easy target, bipartisan support. etc

94 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:13:28am

re: #90 wrenchwench

But for breaking a paperwork rule, not for the crime committed with the gun.

Isn’t that pretty much how it should work? If you showed due diligence, you have no reason to worry? If you fudged the paperwork, your ass is already going to jail, as well as losing your license. What would adding more time atop that do?

95 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:13:36am

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

I think not. The whole nature of criminal justice is that the additional investigations would run many dealers out of business. Lawyers are expensive, and one cannot rely on having followed the law to protect oneself from an indictment.

I’m required by my suppliers to have $1,000,000 of liability insurance to sell fucking bicycles. Wouldn’t bother me to have gun sellers held to a higher standard. It’s way more profitable to sell guns. And look at the influence of their lobbyists. I have no pity for them.

96 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:14:16am

re: #94 Targetpractice

Isn’t that pretty much how it should work? If you showed due diligence, you have no reason to worry? If you fudged the paperwork, your ass is already going to jail, as well as losing your license. What would adding more time atop that do?

I hope it would increase compliance.

97 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:14:20am

re: #82 HappyWarrior

Then again should we really be surprised since we have people treating the Theory of Evolution as just a “theory” because they act like theory in science is the same as saying “I have a theory who stole the cookies while everyone was asleep last night.” I mean this is all basic stuff. As a humanities major and minor, I had very little upper level mathematics and science stuff and even I know it.

a2 + b2 = c2 is called the “Pythagorean theory” even though you learn how to prove it in freshman algebra.

98 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:14:42am

re: #69 Gus

Ah. So he’s with the far-right.

Maybe. I wonder why he hated the arch in the park so much. Maybe just because it was near his house.

99 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:14:43am

BBL

100 efuseakay  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:15:03am

re: #52 Ghost of Tom Joad

It survived? How in the hell? It’s way below freezing up there, unless it was against a warm part of the engine…and how the hell it get up there?

Benghazi.

101 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:15:20am

re: #98 Killgore Trout

Maybe. I wonder why he hated the arch in the park so much. Maybe just because it was near his house.

And nuts.

102 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:15:25am

re: #96 wrenchwench

I hope it would increase compliance.

All it would do is increase the number of hungry lawyers looking for a meal ticket. Suing gun dealers for wrongful death would be a sure bet.

103 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:15:50am

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

I think not. The whole nature of criminal justice is that the additional investigations would run many dealers out of business. Lawyers are expensive, and one cannot rely on having followed the law to protect oneself from an indictment.

Well, let’s just throw our hands in the air and do nothing, then.
/

104 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:16:10am

re: #82 HappyWarrior

Then again should we really be surprised since we have people treating the Theory of Evolution as just a “theory” because they act like theory in science is the same as saying “I have a theory who stole the cookies while everyone was asleep last night.” I mean this is all basic stuff. As a humanities major and minor, I had very little upper level mathematics and science stuff and even I know it.

evolution is a fact. how is happens is where the theories come in

105 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:16:14am

re: #102 Targetpractice

All it would do is increase the number of hungry lawyers looking for a meal ticket. Suing gun dealers for wrongful death would be a sure bet.

That’s it. We can’t do anything because lawyers.

106 erik_t  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:16:22am

re: #97 Vicious Babushka

a2 + b2 = c2 is called the “Pythagorean theory” even though you learn how to prove it in freshman algebra.

No, it’s called the Pythagorean theorem.

107 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:16:51am

re: #105 wrenchwench

That’s it. We can’t do anything because lawyers.

We can’t do more than what’s being done without instituting a defacto ban.

108 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:17:58am

Our inability to come up with a completely 100% effective solution means we should not take any steps at all to solve a major problem.

Now, lets shut down all Fire Departments, Police Stations and Health care facilities to keep them from wasting more time and resources.

109 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:17:58am

re: #104 engineer cat

evolution is a fact. how is happens is where the theories come in

Oh I know. I am just mocking those who say evolution is “just a theory” Theory in science has a different meaning than it does in a general sense. All the more reason to argue for better education so people won’t pull that shit.

110 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:18:04am

re: #106 erik_t

No, it’s called the Pythagorean theorem.

Sorry.

111 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:18:27am

re: #108 Kragar

Our inability to come up with a completely 100% effective solution means we should not take any steps at all to solve a major problem.

Now, lets shut down all Fire Departments, Police Stations and Health care facilities to keep them from wasting more time and resources.

That’s not what I’m saying and you know it.

112 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:18:35am

Nah, here’s a better idea. Tax cuts. Tax cuts solve everything.

113 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:18:46am

(u + v)2 = u2 + 2uv + v 2 =

114 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:18:53am

re: #107 Targetpractice

We can’t do more than what’s being done without instituting a defacto ban.

OK, let’s institute a defacto ban. Then we’ll put the burden of figuring out how we can have safe gun ownership on the gun industry going forward from there, instead of trying to work it from the status quo.

115 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:19:13am

Seriously, what we need to actually do here is look at guns honestly.

116 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:19:17am

re: #111 Targetpractice

That’s not what I’m saying and you know it.

Its basically what some people are arguing. I didn’t say you were.

117 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:19:17am

re: #101 Gus

And nuts.

…and high.

118 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:19:43am

re: #114 wrenchwench

OK, let’s institute a defacto ban. Then we’ll put the burden of figuring out how we can have safe gun ownership on the gun industry going forward from there, instead of trying to work it from the status quo.

Congrats, you’ve made the argument for them. They scream “You’re going to ban all our guns” and now you’re saying “Yes, we’re going to ban all the guns.”

119 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:19:45am

re: #106 erik_t

No, it’s called the Pythagorean theorem.

I call it Chief SohCahToa.

120 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:19:53am

re: #116 Kragar

Its basically what some people are arguing. I didn’t say you were.

Fair enough.

121 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:19:58am

re: #112 HappyWarrior

Nah, here’s a better idea. Tax cuts. Tax cuts solve everything.

And more Jesus. Definitely needs more Jesus.

122 erik_t  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:20:11am

re: #113 Gus

Democrat Party = √evil

123 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:20:40am

re: #106 erik_t

No, it’s called the Pythagorean theorem.

i had a calculus teacher from russia who called it the “pith-a-gore-ean serium”

124 darthstar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:20:42am

re: #113 Gus

(u + v)2 = u2 + 2uv + v 2 =

Too much uv exposure isn’t good for you.

125 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:20:46am

re: #118 Targetpractice

Congrats, you’ve made the argument for them. They scream “You’re going to ban all our guns” and now you’re saying “Yes, we’re going to ban all the guns.”

I made plenty of other arguments before that. You said each one was unworkable. Let’s put the burden on the other side for a change.

126 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:21:28am
127 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:23:50am

Ok, at point does the left nut up and start shouting back.

We’ve heard enough of these “mah gunz” idiots fantasizing on the internet about doing mass murder of the others. Bring this out into the open, start accusing them of it outright.

128 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:23:55am

How do you propose limiting easy access without people flipping out over their rights being taken away? You as in everyone not anyone in particular.

129 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:23:58am

re: #125 wrenchwench

I made plenty of other arguments before that. You said each one was unworkable. Let’s put the burden on the other side for a change.

And I agree with that, but part of dealing with them is getting them to look like the “threat” is overblown. Playing into the NRA’s stereotype of gun control is not going to accomplish that. Better instead to press them to for what they want to do and then pick apart their foolishness, like guards in schools or arming teachers.

130 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:25:04am

re: #40 Kragar

Eric Bolling: Schools ‘pushing the liberal agenda’ by teaching algebra

MATH IS THE DEVIL!

Algebra is the original creeping sharia, you know. It proves that higher math is an Islamic conspiracy to turn ‘Muricans into Muslim hordes. //

131 Geoff with a G  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:26:11am

re: #128 HappyWarrior

How do you propose limiting easy access without people flipping out over their rights being taken away?

Have Sam Elliot tell them?

132 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:26:54am

re: #131 geoffm33

Have Sam Elliot tell them?

[Embedded content]

Only if he gets to narrate my life like he did with The Dude, otherwise the deal’s off.

133 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:27:19am

re: #131 geoffm33

Have Sam Elliot tell them?

[Embedded content]

Wyatt Earp was a Commie…..who knew?

134 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:27:32am

re: #130 Dr Lizardo

Algebra is the original creeping sharia, you know. It proves that higher math is an Islamic conspiracy to turn ‘Muricans into Muslim hordes. //

Crap don’t tell them that Algebra is Arabic in origin and was originally practiced by Muslim mathematicians.

135 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:27:43am

re: #128 HappyWarrior

How do you propose limiting easy access without people flipping out over their rights being taken away? You as in everyone not anyone in particular.

A key factor would be education regarding the issue, something many people have no real interest in.

136 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:27:59am

re: #133 Ghost of Tom Joad

Wyatt Earp was a Commie…..who knew?

His father was Mooslim too.

137 Geoff with a G  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:28:05am

re: #133 Ghost of Tom Joad

Wyatt Earp was a Commie…..who knew?

Ahhh….but Wyatt Earp was retired at the time. His brother went rogue commie.

138 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:28:20am

Really, going after the legal dealers isn’t going to accomplish much because they’re already under obligations at the federal, state, and local levels. Focus instead on the guys selling guns at gun shows, flea markets, dirt malls, and the like who are under no obligation to report their sales or run a background check. Get the NRA leadership on record saying they don’t support background checks.

139 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:28:31am

re: #135 Kragar

And perhaps pushing these people to the margin of society.

140 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:29:46am

re: #134 HappyWarrior

Crap don’t tell them that Algebra is Arabic in origin and was originally practiced by Muslim mathematicians.

I DEMAND A RETURN TO ROMAN NUMERALS IMMEDIATELY!

Now, whose face is on the $V bill?

141 JAFO  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:29:59am

re: #134 HappyWarrior

Crap don’t tell them that Algebra is Arabic in origin and was originally practiced by Muslim mathematicians.

It’s Sharia Math!

142 kirkspencer  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:30:07am

re: #128 HappyWarrior

How do you propose limiting easy access without people flipping out over their rights being taken away? You as in everyone not anyone in particular.

I don’t. The people who will flip out will do it regardless.

Basically, they’re the 4Chan and Anonymous types, just under a different point of fanaticism. ANY restriction, any hint of penalty or regulation, is reason to scream, threaten to hold their breaths, and writing to their congresscritters. The difference is that they’ve been more successful at claiming their tantrums are constitutional.

143 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:30:08am

re: #135 Kragar

A key factor would be education regarding the issue, something many people have no real interest in.

I like that idea. Just frustrating the people would rather scapegoat and blame video games but don’t even want to have a honest conversation about guns. Guns are ridiculously easy to access. I really sincerely think that’s part of the problem.

144 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:30:14am

re: #133 Ghost of Tom Joad

Wyatt Earp was a Commie…..who knew?

Virgil Earp. Wyatt was played by Kurt Russell.

145 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:31:08am

re: #113 Gus

(u + v)2 = u2 + 2uv + v 2 =

e^T x^2+frac{1}{T}xy+sin(T)z -2 = Allah

146 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:31:18am

re: #140 Kragar

I DEMAND A RETURN TO ROMAN NUMERALS IMMEDIATELY!

Now, whose face is on the $V bill?

Lincoln. But Roman Numerals are too Catholic and pagan.

147 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:31:43am

re: #140 Kragar

I DEMAND A RETURN TO ROMAN NUMERALS IMMEDIATELY!

Now, whose face is on the $V bill?

Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus.

//

148 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:32:13am

re: #147 Targetpractice

Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus.

//

Sic Semper Tyrannis.//

149 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:32:58am

re: #134 HappyWarrior

Crap don’t tell them that Algebra is Arabic in origin and was originally practiced by Muslim mathematicians.

WHY HASNT PAM GELLER RITTEN ABOUT THIS CREEPING SHARIA?!1!

150 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:33:46am

re: #149 Dr Lizardo

Day is young as is the vodka that accommodates it.

151 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:34:59am

re: #148 HappyWarrior

Sic Semper Tyrannis.//

#21: You can silence me but there will be others. Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus!

Dr. Killinger: It’s Sic Semper Tyrannis. You said, “Ever faithful terrible lizard.”

#21: I did? Cool.

152 sagehen  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:37:24am

re: #97 Vicious Babushka

a2 + b2 = c2 is called the “Pythagorean theory” even though you learn how to prove it in freshman algebra.

no it’s not, it’s a theorum. Which isn’t the same as a theory.

153 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:38:09am

Update on CA shooting. Student came on campus with shotgun. Shot one student, grazed a teacher. Student in custody.

The incident happened around 9 a.m. local time and students were evacuated to the football field, NBC affiliate KGET of Bakersfield reported. The local sheriff’s department told KGET a student came onto campus armed with a shotgun and shot another student, who is believed to have non-life-threatening injuries and was airlifted to the hospital.

The sheriff also told KGET a teacher, who was possibly grazed by a shotgun pellet, was taken from the scene, however the extent of injuries to the teacher is unknown.

The student suspect is in custody.

154 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:38:11am
155 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:38:22am

Gheen: ‘Obama is Arming Illegal Aliens’

William Gheen of Americans for Legal Immigration PAC today issued a press release warning that President Obama is “eager to act as a dictator” in his attempt “to destroy ‘gun equality’ for American citizens.” He also lashed out at voters for electing a “dictator who is arming illegal alien insurgents” and who wants to “reward them with Amnesty while attempting to disarm American citizens.” Gheen previously maintained that Obama is stoking a “conflict with White America” that may require an “illegal and violent” response and floated the idea of the “military coming in or somebody just coming in taking [Obama] into some form of arrest.”

156 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:38:34am

re: #150 HappyWarrior

Day is young as is the vodka that accommodates it.

I’m tempted to send her something…..heaven knows she’d likely run with it and make an ass out of herself.

157 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:39:08am

re: #153 lawhawk

Thank god he didn’t have a ping pong ball or credit card.

Any news on which video game drove him over the edge?

158 Joanne  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:39:23am

re: #54 Sol Berdinowitz

The lines are being drawn: 100,000 new NRA members in 18 days

Based on Newsmax. Propaganda or reality? Neither are exactly credible.

159 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:39:24am

re: #153 lawhawk

Update on CA shooting. Student came on campus with shotgun. Shot one student, grazed a teacher. Student in custody.

What do you wanna bet it’s his daddy’s shotgun?

160 erik_t  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:39:38am

re: #157 Kragar

Thank god he didn’t have a ping pong ball or credit card.

Any news on which video game drove him over the edge?

Minesweeper. It’s maddening.

161 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:39:47am

re: #157 Kragar

Thank god he didn’t have a ping pong ball or credit card.

Any news on which video game drove him over the edge?

Q*bert

162 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:40:22am

re: #161 Dr. Matt

Q*bert

@!?&!!?

163 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:40:25am

re: #135 Kragar

A key factor would be education regarding the issue, something many people have no real interest in.

Exactly. There has been a lot of success with smoking and drunk driving by educating the public and pushing the idea that these are undesirable behaviours. Cuddling guns, on the other hand, is pushed relentlessly as awesome and sticking up for your rights, which is why so many Americans ascribe magical powers to them. Changing attitudes of American people towards their life-giving freedom wands will be harder than cigarettes, but once upon a time cigarettes were manly icons of good health, not the cancer sticks they are today.

164 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:40:34am

re: #157 Kragar

Thank god he didn’t have a ping pong ball or credit card.

Any news on which video game drove him over the edge?

Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

165 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:40:50am

re: #159 Targetpractice

What do you wanna bet it’s his daddy’s shotgun?

Low capacity, low repeating weapon = fewer casualties.

Shocking how that works.

166 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:41:10am

re: #155 jaunte

Gheen: ‘Obama is Arming Illegal Aliens’

I thought an armed society was a polite society.

167 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:42:17am

re: #166 HappyWarrior

They only want one type of people with the guns.

It feeds into their violent, genocidal fantasies.

168 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:42:24am

re: #166 HappyWarrior

“An armed society is a PTSD society.”

169 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:42:32am

The amount of idiocy I’ve seen over the phrase “gun-free zone” is absolutely maddening in its own right. Gun rights activists keep reiterating that it’s a fallacy to believe in a gun free zone and that we need more guns there.

It ignores the base reason that those zones were created in the first place. It’s all about enhanced criminal sanctions for crimes committed in the designated zones. No one was expecting that guns to be banned from the zones or that the zones would have magical properties - like a magnet for crime. It was meant to give law enforcement another tool in which to catch criminals in those areas and enhance the sentencing on those crimes.

Grrrrr….

170 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:42:39am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Comprehension FAIL. The ‘distributive property’ is a math concept that has nothing to do with economic redistribution.

He’s not complaining about the distributive property per se, but rather the fact that the title printed at the top of the worksheet is “Distribute the Wealth” (check the picture at the link). Which is sort of silly, but whoever chose the title probably just thought it was catchy in a punny sort of way. There was no intent to indoctrinate any economic theory.

171 erik_t  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:42:40am

re: #164 Targetpractice

Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

You have been eaten by a grue.

172 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:42:58am

Don’t make any sudden moves.

173 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:43:05am

re: #165 Dr. Matt

Low capacity, low repeating weapon = fewer casualties.

Shocking how that works.

Indeed. Probably weapon of opportunity.

174 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:43:21am

Don’t stand still.

175 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:43:25am

Proposed Gun Legislation: Anyone owning a belt buckle larger than their fist is prohibited from owning a firearm.

176 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:43:25am

re: #161 Dr. Matt

Q*bert

Oh no. Snakes on a multi-dimensional surface!

177 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:43:43am

Keep your backs to the wall.

178 jaunte  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:44:33am

Keep your eyes on swivels.

179 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:45:21am

re: #169 lawhawk

The amount of idiocy I’ve seen over the phrase “gun-free zone” is absolutely maddening in its own right. Gun rights activists keep reiterating that it’s a fallacy to believe in a gun free zone and that we need more guns there.

It ignores the base reason that those zones were created in the first place. It’s all about enhanced criminal sanctions for crimes committed in the designated zones. No one was expecting that guns to be banned from the zones or that the zones would have magical properties - like a magnet for crime. It was meant to give law enforcement another tool in which to catch criminals in those areas and enhance the sentencing on those crimes.

Grrrrr….

They always bring up Chicago whenever there’s one of these shootings, but when’s the last time you heard of a mass shooting at a Chicago school? I looked, there’s not been one since the Gun Free Zones Act in ‘94. Perhaps because most of their schools, especially the inner-city schools, are treated like demilitarized zones. Most of the school shootings I hear seem to happen in small towns, where the local school’s idea of security is locks on the doors and a security camera.

180 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:46:29am

(From earlier Lawhawk comment)
Expect the usual suspects to claim that the US government is preparing to confiscate guns, even circulating a claim that the military has drawn up plans to confiscate guns, even though gun control does not mean gun confiscation.

You know, given that army staff does contingency planning at all levels (like the various “Color” War Plans pre-WW2 to cover the various mixes of potential enemies - including some way-out-there combinations) there probably has been at least a few staff exercises in coming up with a way to deal with this challenge.

181 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:50:06am

re: #129 Targetpractice

And I agree with that, but part of dealing with them is getting them to look like the “threat” is overblown. Playing into the NRA’s stereotype of gun control is not going to accomplish that. Better instead to press them to for what they want to do and then pick apart their foolishness, like guards in schools or arming teachers.

Or ignore what they want and do what needs to be done. Oh, wait. Politicians don’t ignore the wishes of donors.

182 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:50:46am

re: #175 Kragar

Proposed Gun Legislation: Anyone owning a belt buckle larger than their fist is prohibited from owning a firearm.

That would disarm 90% of New Mexicans.

183 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:51:39am

re: #182 wrenchwench

I was hoping it would disarm the south.

184 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:52:26am

Samuel L. Jackson High: “When I say ‘Duck and Cover’, motherfuckers, I mean DUCK AND COVER.”

185 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:53:07am

Marine Corps orders spouse clubs to admit same sex members or leave

The Marine Corps has advised its legal staff that spouses clubs operating on its installations must admit same-sex spouses if they wish to remain on the bases.

It’s a step that the other service branches have not yet announced as they grapple with how to accommodate same-sex couples following repeal of the don’t ask, don’t tell policy that barred gays and lesbians from serving openly.

Fucking leadership. How does that work? I imagine the wingnuts will be claiming this is another sign of the End Times.

186 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:54:49am

re: #183 ProBosniaLiberal

I was hoping it would disarm the south.

If your family tree is most accurately represented by bamboo, you are prohibited from owning a firearm.

187 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:54:56am

re: #183 ProBosniaLiberal

I was hoping it would disarm the south.

It would primarily affect areas where rodeos are popular. Belt buckles are prizes you can wear.

188 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:55:34am

re: #187 wrenchwench

It would primarily affect areas where rodeos are popular. Belt buckles are prizes you can wear.

Not to mention professional wrestling.

189 allegro  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:56:00am

I own 2 firearms, a bolt-action .22 and a tranquilizer rifle. Both are necessary equipment for my profession. My .22 requires no registration and I can walk into WalMart and buy all the ammo I want for the .22, no questions asked. My tranq is fully registered with the state by requirement and obtaining the meds for the tranq gun requires licensing, considerable paperwork including information on specific applications, and a “prescription” from a licensed veterinarian.

I submit that these two rifles should be equally registered with equal requirements for ammo (sans the veterinarian parts), in the sense that ammo should be regulated and purchases questioned. We keep talking about gun control when ammo control could be the most effective method. There are many ways to do it and one would be limit purchases to “in person” purchases, eliminating internet and by mail sales.

190 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:56:05am

re: #188 Feline Fearless Leader

Not to mention professional wrestling.

Oh, yeah, and boxing.

191 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:56:44am

re: #188 Feline Fearless Leader

Not to mention professional wrestling.

That’s not really personal property though.

192 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:02:14pm

re: #186 Kragar

Mine is less a tree than a bush, considering how diverse my mom’s side of the the family is.

193 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:02:59pm

re: #185 Kragar

Marine Corps orders spouse clubs to admit same sex members or leave

Fucking leadership. How does that work? I imagine the wingnuts will be claiming this is another sign of the End Times.

Imposing the Gay Agenda on America’s military…

194 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:04:10pm

re: #193 Sol Berdinowitz

Imposing the Gay Agenda on America’s military…

As compared to realizing how important the social support network is for the members of the military and their families.
/

195 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:09:02pm

re: #189 allegro

My .22 requires no registration and I can walk into WalMart and buy all the ammo I want for the .22, no questions asked.

Around here, you’d be the one asking all the questions, like “Where’d all the ammo go?” Some guy drove to the nearest three WalMarts (which involves about 250 miles, round trip), bought all the ammo they had, marked it up to double or triple the price, and sold it at a flea market. Except for what he sold in the WalMart parking lot at one of his stops.

False scarcity = true profit.

196 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:09:16pm

Thought experiment - How would the NRA/gun lobby and currently hyperventilating wingnuts react if tomorrow POTUS made an announcement like this:

“With the exception of law enforcement & the military, beginning next week only White Christian men & women will be allowed to own firearms. All minorities—including, but not limited to, atheists, agnostics, deists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, and Asians—will be prohibited from buying, selling, or possessing any type of firearm. Anyone found breaking this new law will be subject to fines and/or federal imprisonment on felony charges.”

Do you suppose they’d still be so upset? I have to wonder…

197 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:09:45pm

For election junkies, Politico is running the poll of a Hilary Clinton/Chris Christie 2016 matchup. (They’re tied.) The only difference is that Clinton could be the Dem, and Christie can’t be the Repub.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

198 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:10:27pm

re: #196 CuriousLurker

Thought experiment - How would the NRA/gun lobby and currently hyperventilating wingnuts react if tomorrow POTUS made an announcement like this:

Do you suppose they’d still be so upset? I have to wonder…

If he didn’t immediately resign and then commit suicide, yes, they’d still be upset.

199 Locker  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:10:49pm

re: #193 Sol Berdinowitz

Imposing the Gay Agenda on America’s military…

Fuck you.

200 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:10:57pm

re: #195 wrenchwench

Around here, you’d be the one asking all the questions, like “Where’d all the ammo go?” Some guy drove to the nearest three WalMarts (which involves about 250 miles, round trip), bought all the ammo they had, marked it up to double or triple the price, and sold it at a flea market. Except for what he sold in the WalMart parking lot at one of his stops.

False scarcity = true profit.

Idiots=pay double.

201 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:11:27pm

re: #196 CuriousLurker

Thought experiment - How would the NRA/gun lobby and currently hyperventilating wingnuts react if tomorrow POTUS made an announcement like this:

Do you suppose they’d still be so upset? I have to wonder…

You’re gonna let the wimmin’s have gunz??!?!

202 Interesting Times  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:11:43pm

re: #199 Locker

Fuck you.

Based on his prior comments, that’s a case of missing sarc tag or wingnut font, not his actual opinion.

203 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:12:33pm

re: #200 Decatur Deb

Idiots=pay double.

Yeah, it’s not like WalMart doesn’t have another truck on the way.

204 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:12:35pm

re: #193 Sol Berdinowitz

Imposing the Gay Agenda on America’s military…

Another example of Big Gay keeping the man down!

205 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:13:04pm
206 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:13:31pm

re: #198 Vicious Babushka

If he didn’t immediately resign and then commit suicide, yes, they’d still be upset.

I’m not convinced. I suspect it’s the horde of “Others” that they think are taking over the government and from whom they think they need protection that is driving much of the fear.

207 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:13:53pm

re: #197 Decatur Deb

For election junkies, Politico is running the poll of a Hilary Clinton/Chris Christie 2016 matchup. (They’re tied.) The only difference is that Clinton could be the Dem, and Christie can’t be the Repub.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

Interesting.

Clinton had 57 percent of the backing for the Democratic nomination, according to a PPP summary of the survey. Vice President Joe Biden was a distant second choice, clocking in with 16 percent.

208 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:14:23pm

re: #205 Gus

And I am sure they have an answer that makes perfect sense. /

209 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:14:42pm

re: #201 wrenchwench

Only if they have a notarized letter from their husbands giving them permission. Darn, I forgot to add gays and “libtards” to my list.

210 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:14:57pm

re: #196 CuriousLurker

Thought experiment - How would the NRA/gun lobby and currently hyperventilating wingnuts react if tomorrow POTUS made an announcement like this:

Do you suppose they’d still be so upset? I have to wonder…

The wingnuts would think they’ve died and gone to heaven.

211 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:15:45pm

re: #206 CuriousLurker

I’m not convinced. I suspect it’s the horde of “Others” that they think are taking over the government and from whom they think they need protection that is driving much of the fear.

After looking at the tsunami of stupid that is #TGDN—the endlessly retweeted Hitler photoshops, the fake quotes, the whackjob conspiracies, they really do believe that Obama is Teh Stan.

212 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:15:53pm

re: #207 Killgore Trout

Interesting.

Prefer Hillary, would be happy with either. In both cases, health issues could override.

214 kirkspencer  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:18:35pm

re: #211 Vicious Babushka

After looking at the tsunami of stupid that is #TGDN—the endlessly retweeted Hitler photoshops, the fake quotes, the whackjob conspiracies, they really do believe that Obama is Teh Stan.

Yes.

Myself, I cope by taking a deep breath and remembering they’re “only” the 27%. They can’t be ignored, as another 20% or so listens to them. Worse, some of them are elected officials at local, state, and federal levels.

But they’re still a minority and this is still a democracy, and even if their wishes for civil war came true, well,

The south may rise again, but if it does it’ll get shot in the head like any other zombie.

215 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:18:56pm

re: #181 wrenchwench

Or ignore what they want and do what needs to be done. Oh, wait. Politicians don’t ignore the wishes of donors.

Thing is, public opinion is not going to fall in favor of a ban, especially not as the initial flare of outrage over Newtown begins to cool. They may not want to continue the status quo, but they are not going to support any sort of ban. Sometimes it’s about what you can get done, not what needs to be done.

216 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:19:01pm

re: #210 Dr Lizardo

The wingnuts would think they’ve died and gone to heaven.

I’m figuring Muslims could be denied all weapons while they’re at it. Like maybe we wouldn’t be able to have anything more dangerous than a plastic spork or butter knife. Then we’d have to try to convince the Mossad to teach us how to kill someone with a pencil or credit card or whatever. //

217 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:20:29pm

re: #215 Targetpractice

Thing is, public opinion is not going to fall in favor of a ban, especially not as the initial flare of outrage over Newtown begins to cool. They may not want to continue the status quo, but they are not going to support any sort of ban. Sometimes it’s about what you can get done, not what needs to be done.

I wasn’t arguing for a ban until you told me all my other ideas wouldn’t work.

I still want Decatur Deb to have a gun.

218 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:22:13pm

re: #216 CuriousLurker

I’m figuring Muslims could be denied all weapons while they’re at it. Like maybe we wouldn’t be able to have anything more dangerous than a plastic spork or butter knife. Then we’d have to try to convince the Mossad to teach us how to kill someone with a pencil or credit card or whatever. //

A corps of young American Muslims very publicly exercising their 2nd A rights might be interesting. Sort of worked for the Black Panthers in the day.

Image: Black-Panther-Guns.jpg

219 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:22:29pm

re: #217 wrenchwench

I wasn’t arguing for a ban until you told me all my other ideas wouldn’t work.

I still want Decatur Deb to have a gun.

Oh, yeah, allegro too. And William Barnett-Lewis.

220 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:23:04pm

re: #217 wrenchwench

I wasn’t arguing for a ban until you told me all my other ideas wouldn’t work.

I still want Decatur Deb to have a gun.

And I told you that making a gun dealer liable for criminal actions done with a gun he sold will effectively be a defacto ban because no insurance company will open themselves to that sort of liability. Right now, the laws in place are serving as an effective deterrent, better to focus on those who aren’t under the microscope, the ones selling their guns at the flea market based upon nothing more than a handshake.

221 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:23:16pm

re: #217 wrenchwench

I wasn’t arguing for a ban until you told me all my other ideas wouldn’t work.

I still want Decatur Deb to have a gun.

Got more guns than hands, but fairly small buckles.

222 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:23:18pm

re: #214 kirkspencer

Doubletap.

223 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:23:58pm

re: #218 Decatur Deb

A corps of young American Muslims very publicly exercising their 2nd A rights might be interesting. Sort of worked for the Black Panthers in the day.

Image: Black-Panther-Guns.jpg

Dude. NO. Gawd, I can only imagine the hysteria that would follow.

224 Mattand  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:24:15pm

re: #197 Decatur Deb

For election junkies, Politico is running the poll of a Hilary Clinton/Chris Christie 2016 matchup. (They’re tied.) The only difference is that Clinton could be the Dem, and Christie can’t be the Repub.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

I wonder how many of those who polled for Christie are under the delusion that he’s a moderate now. He put politics aside for only dealing with Sandy. He’s still a modern Republican through and through.

225 allegro  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:24:45pm

re: #219 wrenchwench

Oh, yeah, allegro too. And William Barnett-Lewis.

Thanks. Shooting a rabid skunk or coyote is so much easier on the critter (and me) than having to beat it to death with a board.

226 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:25:09pm

re: #223 CuriousLurker

Dude. NO. Gawd, I can only imagine the hysteria that would follow.

Hell, white wingnuts went apeshit when they saw a black guy in a leather jacket, beret, and a billy club.

227 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:25:48pm

re: #225 allegro

That and you can keep the critter at least a few yards away from you.

228 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:25:49pm

re: #220 Targetpractice

And I told you that making a gun dealer liable for criminal actions done with a gun he sold will effectively be a defacto ban because no insurance company will open themselves to that sort of liability. Right now, the laws in place are serving as an effective deterrent, better to focus on those who aren’t under the microscope, the ones selling their guns at the flea market based upon nothing more than a handshake.

You’re wrong about the insurance companies. They’ll insure anything, for a price.

The word ‘effective’ does not apply to the status quo. Something’s not working, and we should take another look at every source of guns.

229 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:25:56pm

re: #224 Mattand

I wonder how many of those who polled for Christie are under the delusion that he’s a moderate now. He put politics aside for only dealing with Sandy. He’s still a modern Republican through and through.

He’s an opportunistic jackass. That he reamed out the GOP leadership on live TV doesn’t mean he turned in his membership card.

230 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:25:59pm

re: #205 Gus

[Embedded content]

As Chris Rock said “if you listen and wait, eventually they’ll always get to ni-CLANGs and Jews *looks at his watch* that train’s never late!”

231 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:26:07pm
232 Kragar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:26:19pm

Jindal Proposes Elimination Of State Income And Corporate Taxes

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a top Republican contender for president in 2016, called for the elimination of Louisiana’s income and corporate taxes Thursday, the Times-Picayune reports. Jindal wants to make up the income by raising sales taxes.

233 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:26:20pm

re: #223 CuriousLurker

Dude. NO. Gawd, I can only imagine the hysteria that would follow.

Though I have to admit the backlash might be worth it if we could watch Geller’s head explode when she saw the photos…

Gah, have an appointment—gotta run. Later, lizards.

234 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:28:05pm

re: #228 wrenchwench

You’re wrong about the insurance companies. They’ll insure anything, for a price.

The word ‘effective’ does not apply to the status quo. Something’s not working, and we should take another look at every source of guns.

What’s not working is that a gun dealer can only rely upon what he’s given in terms of a background check. He’s not at fault, it’s states who are under pressure by the NRA not to keep up-to-date records in NICS of people diagnosed as mentally ill or convicted of felonies. If the background check comes back clean, then what is it you want him to do?

235 Mattand  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:28:39pm

re: #223 CuriousLurker

Dude. NO. Gawd, I can only imagine the hysteria that would follow.

Yeah, that would wind up with the cops shooting the Muslims to pieces.

As someone pointed out earlier, if the two knuckleheads in Oregon strolling around with loaded rifles earlier had been anything other than white, they’d be dead.

I’m getting the impression that for a lot of people, the 2nd Amendment is cool as long as the person with a gun is white

236 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:28:47pm

re: #225 allegro

Thanks. Shooting a rabid skunk or coyote is so much easier on the critter (and me) than having to beat it to death with a board.

In 50 yrs I’ve only shot cardboard cutouts, one rooster, and one dog. (What the kids call my ‘Atticus Finch’ moment.)

My friend has a trophy block of 4 inch armor plate that she shot a hole through. I’m so inadequate.

237 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:29:33pm

re: #225 allegro

Thanks. Shooting a rabid skunk or coyote is so much easier on the critter (and me) than having to beat it to death with a board.

Apply for a credit card and you can ninja slice it in a matter of seconds.

238 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:29:54pm

How should I respond to Peter?

239 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:31:33pm

re: #232 Kragar

Jindal Proposes Elimination Of State Income And Corporate Taxes

[Embedded content]

At this point, (I read that as Santorum. Well, either way, they’re the same damn thing) might as well kidnap a homeless person, drill a hole in the person’s head, and skull-fuck them on national TV. Just get it over with already.

Useless asshole.

240 iossarian  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:32:28pm

re: #238 Gus

How should I respond to Peter?

How about: “Calling out bigotry isn’t usually called intolerance. Except by bigots.”

?

241 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:33:09pm

re: #232 Kragar

Jindal Proposes Elimination Of State Income And Corporate Taxes

[Embedded content]

Figures this dickwad would opt for the most regressive tax there is.

242 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:33:17pm

re: #189 allegro

There are many ways to do it and one would be limit purchases to “in person” purchases, eliminating internet and by mail sales.

How will the businesses this puts under be compensated? One years profit? Five? They will have to be compensated, otherwise it’s an unconstitutional taking.

Are you including reloading components? I have to buy those by mail order as no stores within a 2 hour drive stock them.

243 Mattand  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:33:25pm

re: #238 Gus

How should I respond to Peter?

244 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:33:41pm

re: #238 Gus

How should I respond to Peter?

Ask him “So Peter, when did you stop soliciting sex in the public restroom at the airport?”

245 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:33:42pm

re: #232 Kragar

Jindal Proposes Elimination Of State Income And Corporate Taxes

[Embedded content]

McDonnell was just saying here in VA the other day that he wants to end the gas tax and instead make up the difference with a higher sales tax. Because in a struggling economy, with millions still unemployed and millions more underemployed, what you want to do is further increase the burden on them at the check-out line.

246 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:34:15pm

re: #232 Kragar

Louisiana’s tax burden isn’t particularly harsh, but eliminating the corp and pers taxes would impose a highly regressive tax climate. The sales tax would have to increase significantly to make up for the lost revenues.

Currently, the sales tax is at 4%.

Corp taxes max out at 8%. Personal income taxes at 6%.

This pie chart shows the problem. In 3Q 2011 (latest available), the personal income tax generated $681m. Sales tax generated about $729m. Corporate tax generated another $21m. You would essentially have to double the sales tax to cover the revenues. Because corporate/personal taxes vary by quarter - most coming in the 2q, you could probably get away with a 7% sales tax, but it would hit the poor/working class hardest since it would attach to all purchases made.

247 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:34:54pm

re: #234 Targetpractice

What’s not working is that a gun dealer can only rely upon what he’s given in terms of a background check. He’s not at fault, it’s states who are under pressure by the NRA not to keep up-to-date records in NICS of people diagnosed as mentally ill or convicted of felonies. If the background check comes back clean, then what is it you want him to do?

Sell the gun.

248 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:36:29pm

re: #245 Targetpractice

McDonnell was just saying here in VA the other day that he wants to end the gas tax and instead make up the difference with a higher sales tax. Because in a struggling economy, with millions still unemployed and millions more underemployed, what you want to do is further increase the burden on them at the check-out line.

They always propose upping the sales tax during the rare times they’re actually open to tax increase. I agree, millions unemployed and the suggestion is to increase the sales tax? Yeah great idea Bob.

249 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:38:18pm

Big Gay? I’d ask Peter why he has less maturity than a middle school when it comes to homosexuality.

250 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:38:21pm

re: #247 wrenchwench

Sell the gun.

And then when that gun gets used in a crime, he’s now under a spotlight. Did he cross every t and dot every i? How did he miss that the guy he sold the gun to was “obviously” out of his mind? Why didn’t the background check catch that he was mentally ill? The guy flubbed the background check paperwork, why didn’t the dealer catch that?

251 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:38:55pm

re: #245 Targetpractice

McDonnell was just saying here in VA the other day that he wants to end the gas tax and instead make up the difference with a higher sales tax. Because in a struggling economy, with millions still unemployed and millions more underemployed, what you want to do is further increase the burden on them at the check-out line.

And, of course, that will unequally target urban areas where people do a lot of walking instead of driving.

252 Mattand  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:40:02pm

re: #249 HappyWarrior

Big Gay? I’d ask Peter why he has less maturity than a middle school when it comes to homosexuality.

Just had another tweet with Pete. Guy’s a fucking loon.

Big Gay. Oy.

He’s also putting periods in front of our Twitter addresses. Because that totally protects him.

253 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:40:31pm

re: #223 CuriousLurker

Dude. NO. Gawd, I can only imagine the hysteria that would follow.

While I can imagine the hysteria, I can also say that it might be a good thing, too. After all, I’m a Muslim and even here in the Czech Republic, I own a shotgun. I enjoy pheasant and duck hunting.

I think the wingnuts would have a stroke if they saw American Muslims, exercising their Second Amendment rights, even in the most peaceful of manner. They couldn’t handle it. And then the American Muslims could simply say, “Second Amendment, bitches.”

254 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:40:43pm

re: #250 Targetpractice

And then when that gun gets used in a crime, he’s now under a spotlight. Did he cross every t and dot every i? How did he miss that the guy he sold the gun to was “obviously” out of his mind? Why didn’t the background check catch that he was mentally ill? The guy flubbed the background check paperwork, why didn’t the dealer catch that?

This will make gun dealers very careful about crossing their t’s and dotting their i’s. Which you said they already have to do, under penalty of law.

255 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:42:21pm

re: #254 wrenchwench

This will make gun dealers very careful about crossing their t’s and dotting their i’s. Which you said they already have to do, under penalty of law.

Yes, they already do. So what is this going to do besides create fertile ground for wrongful death suits?

256 Ghost of Tom Joad  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:42:41pm

re: #253 Dr Lizardo

While I can imagine the hysteria, I can also say that it might be a good thing, too. After all, I’m a Muslim and even here in the Czech Republic, I own a shotgun. I enjoy pheasant and duck hunting.

I think the wingnuts would have a stroke if there American Muslims, exercising their Second Amendment rights, even in the most peaceful of manner. They couldn’t handle it.

Don’t even have to be Muslims. Can you imagine the pants-shitting paranoia if the OWS people walked around armed like a bunch of the tea-party morons did?

257 Geoff with a G  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:42:54pm

re: #231 Gus

[Embedded content]

Just to follow up on what mattand mentioned in one of the replies to that tweet. I think the period is used to change it from a direct @ reply to a tweet so that all of that derps followers will see his response. Without the period, just mutual followers would see it. I could be wrong though.

258 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:43:56pm

re: #256 Ghost of Tom Joad

Don’t even have to be Muslims. Can you imagine the pants-shitting paranoia if the OWS people walked around armed like a bunch of the tea-party morons did?

Give them guns, but take their fuckn’ drums.

259 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:44:05pm

re: #255 Targetpractice

Yes, they already do. So what is this going to do besides create fertile ground for wrongful death suits?

Increase compliance.

We’ve already been here.

260 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:44:37pm

re: #259 wrenchwench

Increase compliance.

We’ve already been here.

Your next line is, “But, Lawyers!”

261 Mattand  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:44:45pm

re: #257 geoffm33

Just to follow up on what mattand mentioned in one of the replies to that tweet. I think the period is used to change it from a direct @ reply to a tweet so that all of that derps followers will see his response. Without the period, just mutual followers would see it. I could be wrong though.

Crap. My mistake. Thought it was a #tgdn thingy.

On the bright side, it enables me to piss off more homophobes.

262 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:44:53pm

re: #256 Ghost of Tom Joad

Don’t even have to be Muslims. Can you imagine the pants-shitting paranoia if the OWS people walked around armed like a bunch of the tea-party morons did?

Of course, you’re right…..the Occupiers send the wingnuts in paroxyms of panic. But you have to admit, seeing American Muslims bearing arms (all quite legally); the paranoia would be perversely delicious.

Like wingnut tears. Only……..tastier.

263 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:45:24pm

re: #259 wrenchwench

Increase compliance.

We’ve already been here.

They’re already complying. What is your basis for saying they’re not?

264 Geoff with a G  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:45:57pm

re: #261 Mattand

Crap. My mistake. Thought it was a #tgdn thingy.

On the bright side, it enables me to piss off more homophobes.

That’s the spirit!

265 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:47:22pm

re: #263 Targetpractice

They’re already complying. What is your basis for saying they’re not?

If they’re already complying, what’s the worry about increasing penalties?

I don’t know what the compliance rate is.

266 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:49:16pm

re: #265 wrenchwench

If they’re already complying, what’s the worry about increasing penalties?

I don’t know what the compliance rate is.

The worry is that you’re trying to create a problem and then offer a “solution” to that problem that really does nothing besides make life harder for law-abiding citizens.

267 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:55:47pm

re: #266 Targetpractice

The worry is that you’re trying to create a problem and then offer a “solution” to that problem that really does nothing besides make life harder for law-abiding citizens.

Look at the article at the top. Look at Sandy Hook. Look at Aurora. I didn’t create the problem. If I’m looking in the wrong place for a partial solution, that’s different from creating the problem.

I really don’t mind if gets more difficult to sell guns than it is right now.

268 allegro  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:57:00pm

re: #242 William Barnett-Lewis

How will the businesses this puts under be compensated? One years profit? Five? They will have to be compensated, otherwise it’s an unconstitutional taking.

Are you including reloading components? I have to buy those by mail order as no stores within a 2 hour drive stock them.

Businesses can still sell ammo so why would they require additional compensation? I suggest a national database that includes licensed gun operators/owners with all who shoot being licensed and registered. When we make ammo purchases, those purchases can be recorded in that database along with the purpose for that ammo, whether hunting, target shooting, or other legitimate purpose. Unusual purchases or amounts can be flagged for questioning.

The constitution states a right to bear arms with regulation being stated in that same amendment. Ammunition is not included so regulation of ammo cannot be an unconstitutional “taking.”

If you require ammo or reloading stock that isn’t normally carried by your local gun dealer, then that gun dealer can order the merchandise for you. No mail order by you is needed.

269 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 12:59:38pm

re: #267 wrenchwench

Look at the article at the top. Look at Sandy Hook. Look at Aurora. I didn’t create the problem. If I’m looking in the wrong place for a partial solution, that’s different from creating the problem.

I really don’t mind if gets more difficult to sell guns than it is right now.

Sandy Hook and Aurora would not have been avoided by treating gun dealers as criminals for doing their jobs to the letter of the law.

270 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:01:43pm

re: #253 Dr Lizardo

While I can imagine the hysteria, I can also say that it might be a good thing, too. After all, I’m a Muslim and even here in the Czech Republic, I own a shotgun. I enjoy pheasant and duck hunting.

I think the wingnuts would have a stroke if they saw American Muslims, exercising their Second Amendment rights, even in the most peaceful of manner. They couldn’t handle it. And then the American Muslims could simply say, “Second Amendment, bitches.”

Doubly so if the Muslims organized themselves into a well-regulated militia.

271 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:01:58pm

re: #269 Targetpractice

Sandy Hook and Aurora would not have been avoided by treating gun dealers as criminals for doing their jobs to the letter of the law.

I’m not advocating ‘treating gun dealers as criminals for doing their jobs to the letter of the law’.

I’m not saying that what I do advocate would have prevented Sandy Hook and Aurora.

272 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:03:09pm

re: #271 wrenchwench

I’m not advocating ‘treating gun dealers as criminals for doing their jobs to the letter of the law’.

I’m not saying that what I do advocate would have prevented Sandy Hook and Aurora.

Then what is the purpose behind such laws? What does increasing compliance accomplish?

273 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:03:12pm

re: #269 Targetpractice

I think we’ve arrived at pointlessness. I’m going to go build a wheel. Thanks for the discussion.

274 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:04:13pm

re: #272 Targetpractice

Then what is the purpose behind such laws? What does increasing compliance accomplish?

The objective is fewer guns in the wrong hands.

275 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:05:30pm

re: #274 wrenchwench

The objective is fewer guns in the wrong hands.

Then go after the wrong hands, not the guy who followed the law in selling those guns.

276 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:07:17pm

re: #270 Feline Fearless Leader

Doubly so if the Muslims organized themselves into a well-regulated militia.

If American Muslims organized themselves into a well-regulated militia, the wingnuts would be howling for congressional investigations into a “terrorist cell” and Pam G and Robert S would work themselves into a fine frenzy. Frank Gaffney would likely have a stroke.

The Freepers would probably crash their site in their sputtering rage.

277 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:08:58pm

re: #275 Targetpractice

Then go after the wrong hands, not the guy who followed the law in selling those guns.

If he followed the law, I’m not ‘going after him’. Did you miss #247?

278 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:11:42pm

re: #276 Dr Lizardo

If American Muslims organized themselves into a well-regulated militia, the wingnuts would be howling for congressional investigations into a “terrorist cell” and Pam G and Robert S would work themselves into a fine frenzy. Frank Gaffney would likely have a stroke.

The Freepers would probably crash their site in their sputtering rage.

Looking for the downside.

279 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:12:55pm

re: #277 wrenchwench

If he followed the law, I’m not ‘going after him’. Did you miss #247?

Sure you are, because now you’re raising the bar. Once he’s criminally liable for any actions taken by the end-user, then you have to treat him as accomplice. That means he not only has to prove he fulfilled his obligations by running a background check, now you’re probing into whether he was helping the guy pass said check. Now it’s not only the check, it’s whether or not he sold to a guy he thought might be up to no good. A lot of this is subjective and a lot of it is going to get him treated like a criminal.

280 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:14:37pm

re: #279 Targetpractice

Sure you are, because now you’re raising the bar. Once he’s criminally liable for any actions taken by the end-user, then you have to treat him as accomplice. That means he not only has to prove he fulfilled his obligations by running a background check, now you’re probing into whether he was helping the guy pass said check. Now it’s not only the check, it’s whether or not he sold to a guy he thought might be up to no good. A lot of this is subjective and a lot of it is going to get him treated like a criminal.

Show me where I said that.

281 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:15:12pm

re: #278 Decatur Deb

Looking for the downside.

Well, there really isn’t one when you think about it. Sure, some quarters would have an epic freakout, but in the end, they’d really be powerless to do anything about it.

Just have to make sure the members are all on the up-and-up. Much like my Sheikh in Berlin once said, “We (the Sufis) do not tolerate extremism or terrorism. If you know of a Muslim planning illegal activities, it is your duty as a human being to notify the authorities. If you’re not comfortable doing that yourself, then tell me, and I will go to the authorities.”

282 DeepBlue  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:15:36pm

The gun industry is not ‘responsible’ nor ‘accountable’. Manufacturers ‘lose’ 16,000 weapons.

284 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:18:06pm

re: #280 wrenchwench

Show me where I said that.

You didn’t say it, it’s the consequence of your train of thought. Because the law right now says any dealer who sells a gun to someone he thinks might be violating the law, even if he passes a background check, is committing a felony. So now you’re calling now just the dealer’s truthworthiness, but also his judge of character, into question.

286 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:20:08pm

re: #284 Targetpractice

You didn’t say it, it’s the consequence of your train of thought. Because the law right now says any dealer who sells a gun to someone he thinks might be violating the law, even if he passes a background check, is committing a felony. So now you’re calling now just the dealer’s truthworthiness, but also his judge of character, into question.

You did miss #247. And if the law already says that, why are you blaming my train of thought?

Go read DeepBlue’s links. I’m done.

287 DeepBlue  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:21:56pm

I don’t understand how James O’Keefe can shut down Planned Parenthood with a pimp suit and a video camera and no one has shown the obviously illegal activities caused routinely in the gun industry. Should be like shooting fish in a barrel or whatever the right metaphor would be.

288 Skip Intro  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:22:55pm

So Taft had a deputy on campus. Did they have one who could be everywhere at once?

I thought not. That’s all the NRA is asking for.

289 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:23:16pm

re: #283 DeepBlue

More than half of the firearms traced in crimes come from just 1 percent of the nation’s licensed gun stores, but federal agents rarely check to make sure these stores are complying with gun laws, a new study finds.

Federal agents are also hampered by funding and manpower restrictions, both of which are a consequence of efforts by the NRA to strangle federal oversight of gun dealers and owners. We haven’t had a permanent director of the ATF in over six years. Likewise the NRA’s been using its lobbying dollars to keep many of Obama’s judicial nominees from being approved.

Ripping the fangs out of the NRA is gotta be the long-term goal, not going after the middle men.

290 DeepBlue  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:25:07pm

Here the NRA wants to make sure that guns can easily get to Mexican drug lords through bulk purchases.

291 Pete Puma  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:27:35pm

So there’s a school shooting despite the presence of those vaunted armed guards. How long before we get the right spewing spittle about this being a conspiracy to prove that armed guards in schools “don’t work?”

292 DeepBlue  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:28:27pm

Arizona gun show dealers sold firearms to undercover cops who openly admitted they wouldn’t be able to pass a background check, according to a revealing operation conducted by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s office. If they had only been smart enough to be wearing turbans or black face or had Sandra Fluke try this, perhaps things would have been different.
Raw Story ([Link: s.tt…]

293 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:29:39pm

re: #288 Skip Intro

So Taft had a deputy on campus. Did they have one who could be everywhere at once?

I thought not. That’s all the NRA is asking for.

That why all the children have to be carrying as well.

//

294 DeepBlue  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:41:02pm

Q: How many NRA members does it take to screw in a Light Bulb?
A: More Guns!
To stop events like this everyone needs to have a gun and everybody must have it drawn and ready because the only possibly way you can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun..

295 DeepBlue  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:47:22pm

Q: Where do crime guns come from?
A: Through a highly efficient, organized, and profitable business of gun trafficking that moves guns from legal manufacture to dealers to criminals and young people who can’t buy guns legally.
(& which the gun industry directly profits on & also uses to scare other customers to buying more - it’s the best product ever!!!)
10: If you don’t have a gun, you need one because someone else has one
20: Buy a gun
30: Be someone else, GOTO 10
QED 1 person has a gun -> everyone needs to have a gun. Proof through induction.

296 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 1:55:39pm

re: #88 HappyWarrior

Okay since Bolling’s bitching about the “distributive property of mathematics” because of the word distribute. Someone please let him know that the word welfare is in the Constitution.

And the word “regulated” shows up in the biblical passage 2nd ammendment of the constitution.


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I have a message to deliver to the cute people of the world...if you're cute, or maybe you're beautiful...there's MORE OF US UGLY MOTHERF*CKERS OUT THERE! So watch out.