TwitterFacebook

Rare Photo of A-Bomb Cloud Found in Hiroshima

Two minutes after
History • Views: 26,502

A long lost image from the Hiroshima atomic bombing has been discovered at a Japanese elementary school.

The black-and-white photograph shows the mushroom cloud over Hiroshima split into two distinctly separated parts, one on top of the other.

The rare image was found at the Honkawa Elementary School in Hiroshima city, in a collection of about 1,000 articles on the WWII atomic bombing. The material was donated by a late survivor, Yosaburo Yamasaki, in or after 1953.

According to the Japanese daily Asahi Shimbun, a memo on the back of the photo says it was shot near the town of Kaitaichi, some six miles east of ground zero, two minutes after the bomb was dropped on August 6, 1945.

The book reported that the photographer is “unknown” and that the image was shot “20-30 minutes” after the bombing.

More: Rare Photo of a-Bomb Cloud Found in Hiroshima : Discovery News

Jump to bottom

128 comments

1 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 2:14:37pm

The use of Little Boy was a horror, but it was justified since it prevented the ever greater horror that would have resulted from an invasion of the Japanese Home Islands.

2 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 2:33:01pm

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

The use of Little Boy was a horror, but it was justified since it prevented the ever greater horror that would have resulted from an invasion of the Japanese Home Islands.

There is also the point that nuclear weapons were certain to be used in a war. If two hadn’t been used near the end of WWII, then innumerable nukes would have been used to kick off WWIII.

3 Major Tom  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 3:21:52pm

OK, there were casualties in the tens of thousands to take (almost) each of the islands from Guam inward. There was a real time factor involved to try and keep the Japanese from regaining their war footing. I get that. But at the point just before we dropped the bomb, we had firebombed Tokyo, and Japan’s major cities into ashes, and Russia invaded Japan’s Manchurian territories taking their resources and factories. Japan was a hollow shell of what it had been. A few more months of fire and conventional bombings, and without a place to secure resources or re supply weaponry, there was no need to rush a nation-wide invasion resulting in possibly a million casulties (so it goes…)

I don’t know I buy the rationale for using ‘the bomb’ as a humanitarian choice, and both of them for that matter, as America did. I can’t shake the motivation that the bombs were used primarily as a means to end the war as soon as possible to secure Japan solely for the Western Allies, and to intimidate the Soviet Union. After spending 20,000 men to take useless chunks of rock in the pacific, more than once, it seems strange to suddenly value human life… and specifically American human life… Because we say the Japanese deaths were ok, don’t we? But I can’t write off the 230,000 people killled in the Atomic bombing, and the 200,000 people that died of cancer by 1950. War makes no god damn sense to me.

But I wasn’t there. It was my grandparent’s generation. And everyone tells me, everyone, they were the greatest generation.

4 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 3:27:15pm

re: #3 Major Tom

Even if we had not invaded Japan, just maintaining the blockade and bombing killed hundreds of Americans every month. There was the matter of the thousands of Allied POWs being used as slave labor in Japan. Had the war gone a few more months those prisoners would have almost certainly been massacred (at Nagasaki the Japanese were already preparing a mass grave and machine gun platform to carry out the mass murder). The use of the atomic bombs saved all of those Allied lives, and it was those men whom Harry Truman was duty bound to consider before he gave concern for the Japanese who were killed.

5 The Mongoose  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:27:27pm

There’s also the issue of the hundreds of thousands thousands of civilian prisoners being brutally enslaved and tortured by the Japanese. Every day Japan’s surrender was delayed, more of them died from horrific violence, disease, and starvation.

6 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:33:03pm

re: #3 Major Tom

More lives had been lost to LeMay’s firebombing campaign than were lost to the atomic bombs. And you suggest we should have stretched that campaign out as long as it took until the Japanese surrendered?

7 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:33:39pm

I just finished reading EB Sledge’s memoir “With The Old Breed” about the combats on Peleliu and Okinawa. Had Operation Downfall and it’s invasions of Operation Olympic and Coronet gone forward, the casualties would have been enormous.

400,000 killed by the bombs vs. an estimated (and I believe low estimate) 1 Million allied soldiers and 6.5 Million Japanese (soldiers and civilians out of 71 million population)? I believe the right choice was made. Starving them out would simply have been genocidal.

It’s no joke that every purple heart awarded since 1945 has been from the production run made for Downfall.

8 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:34:00pm

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

The use of Little Boy was a horror, but it was justified since it prevented the ever greater horror that would have resulted from an invasion of the Japanese Home Islands.

the actual deaths are a fact. the predicted deaths “prevented” are hypothetical

we were desperate to end the war and dropping the bomb did the trick, so we can’t really monday-morning-quaterback the world of 1945, but we don’t really know what would have happened in some hypothetical alternate universe if we hadn’t dropped it

what really scares me is that some of the manhattan project scientists said afterward that they weren’t really sure that they wouldn’t “blow up the atmosphere” when they did the first bomb test in the desert

9 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:36:15pm

re: #8 engineer cat

the actual deaths are a fact. the predicted deaths “prevented” are hypothetical

we were desperate to end the war and dropping the bomb did the trick, so we can’t really monday-morning-quaterback the world of 1945, but we don’t really know what would have happened in some hypothetical alternate universe if we hadn’t dropped it

what really scares me is that some of the manhattan project scientists said afterward that they weren’t really sure that they wouldn’t “blow up the atmosphere” when they did the first bomb test in the desert

It was one possibility, though the math behind it was wildly optimistic. They actually set up a betting pool over the results of the Trinity Test, from a dud to a runaway fission reaction that would be powerful enough to ignite the atmosphere.

10 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:38:07pm

re: #8 engineer cat

what really scares me is that some of the manhattan project scientists said afterward that they weren’t really sure that they wouldn’t “blow up the atmosphere” when they did the first bomb test in the desert

That’s a myth. It’s terribly easy to run the equations that showed how the plutonium implosion “gadget” would (and did) behave on detonation. Simple physics. Now it its true that Oppenheimer quoted from the Bhagavad Gita (“I am become death; the destroyer of worlds”) because he foresaw the political mess this weapon would create, but that’s a considerably different issue.

11 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:40:05pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

re: #10 William Barnett-Lewis

i’ll hold you guys’ coats

12 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:41:38pm

re: #10 William Barnett-Lewis

That’s a myth. It’s terribly easy to run the equations that showed how the plutonium implosion “gadget” would (and did) behave on detonation. Simple physics. Now it its true that Oppenheimer quoted from the Bhagavad Gita (“I am become death; the destroyer of worlds”) because he foresaw the political mess this weapon would create, but that’s a considerably different issue.

Think that’s one of the great stains on our legacy, that men like Oppenheimer were not only ridiculed, but accused of everything short of treason for advocating against nuclear proliferation.

13 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:42:29pm

Barbarism.

14 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:45:41pm

Japanese soldiers had started to surrender on Okinawa. Also, there was plenty of political intrigue going on. I think an invasion would have toppled the government. But that’s just my opinion. After Fat Man, we were fresh out of nukes. I think we didn’t have any more until February 1946. But it was necessary to end the war befoer the Soviets got involved and ruined everything. Actually, I think the only thing the Japanese were afraid of was the Russians.

15 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:47:22pm

re: #14 SteveMcG

Might wanna edit that comment.

16 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:47:30pm

re: #12 Targetpractice

Think that’s one of the great stains on our legacy, that men like Oppenheimer were not only ridiculed, but accused of everything short of treason for advocating against nuclear proliferation.

Agreed. One of the most sinister aspects of present-day wingnuttia is the attempt to rehabilitate Joe McCarthy.

17 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:48:07pm

I saw a movie about the Manhattan Project and one of the scientists who opposed using the bombs suggested that if the Russians weren’t sure it would work, they wouldn’t try as hard to build their own, but once they saw them work, nothing would stop them from making their own. I kind of think that logic was a bit of a reach.

19 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:50:11pm

re: #10 William Barnett-Lewis

That’s a myth. It’s terribly easy to run the equations that showed how the plutonium implosion “gadget” would (and did) behave on detonation. Simple physics. Now it its true that Oppenheimer quoted from the Bhagavad Gita (“I am become death; the destroyer of worlds”) because he foresaw the political mess this weapon would create, but that’s a considerably different issue.

As I recall, the question of whether or not the atmosphere detonates is independent of whether the bomb itself works, and was an unknown at the time of the Trinity test. Fortunately, we still have an atmosphere.

20 Stan the Demanded Plan  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:50:38pm

My initial reaction is sadness.

21 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:50:59pm

re: #17 SteveMcG

I saw a movie about the Manhattan Project and one of the scientists who opposed using the bombs suggested that if the Russians weren’t sure it would work, they wouldn’t try as hard to build their own, but once they saw them work, nothing would stop them from making their own. I kind of think that logic was a bit of a reach.

The Soviets had infiltrated the Manhattan Project long before a working prototype existed. The physics themselves were well understood, it was the technological aspect behind producing the materials and getting them to work as predicted that had to be worked out.

22 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:51:46pm

re:14 Gus
(my “reply” and “quote” buttons don’t work)

I was trying to be quick about the comment concerning the Soviets. I’m guarding the front desk at my wife’s office. Anyway, I think we were afraid the Russians would throw a monkey wrench into the post war occupation plans, and I’m pretty sure we were afraid that they would get involved in the Chinese civil war. We were hoping Chain Kai Shek (forgive my spelling) would prevail.

23 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:52:37pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

It was one possibility, though the math behind it was wildly optimistic. They actually set up a betting pool over the results of the Trinity Test, from a dud to a runaway fission reaction that would be powerful enough to ignite the atmosphere.

I think It would be rather hard to collect on your winnings I the later case.

24 Pawn of the Oppressor  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:53:17pm

Chilling. No amount of political justification changes the fact that in that photo, underneath that cloud, 100,000 people are dead or dying horribly, destroyed, mangled, and burned from one instant to the next, the first combat victims of the newest and last major development in the science of military mass murder.

Richard Rhodes’ two books on the development of the fission and fusion bombs, respectively, are incredibly illuminating and interesting. We do like to think of the campaign against Japan as some kind of manly enterprise to right the wrongs of the world, and I know full well what the situation was… But it is amazing to read the inside story about the bomb-making process and the decision to use it, and the varied reactions of the physicists and planners to its use.

As fucked up as things can get these days, the body count is so much smaller in modern wars… It’s easy to lose perspective and forget the kind of devastation and horror that was flat-out commonplace at the time.

I’m a bit of a geek about physics though. Nuclear bombs as physical devices are quite literally awesome. My mind kind of broke when I first read that the plutonium cores in the Trinity Device (and Fat Man) were about the size of an orange. Make a little ball out of some weird unstable metal, squeeze it the right way, and BLAMMO… Thousand-foot-wide fireball! It’s just strange.

25 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:53:27pm

re: #22 SteveMcG

re:14 Gus
(my “reply” and “quote” buttons don’t work)

I was trying to be quick about the comment concerning the Soviets. I’m guarding the front desk at my wife’s office. Anyway, I think we were afraid the Russians would throw a monkey wrench into the post war occupation plans, and I’m pretty sure we were afraid that they would get involved in the Chinese civil war. We were hoping Chain Kai Shek (forgive my spelling) would prevail.

It’s the four-letter word you use there to describe the Japanese people. At the end of your comment.

26 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:55:46pm

Don’t you just love the smell of death while in mourning?

27 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:55:46pm

Still not quite sure how the atmosphere was supposed to ignite, the chemistry itself doesn’t support the notion.

28 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:57:10pm
29 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:57:33pm

Gus, it seems every time I try to click on one of these buttons it kicks me back to the front page. Also, I was just trying to get the post in between patients.

30 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:57:42pm

re: #28 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

#RIPTedNugent

What?

31 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:58:25pm

re: #29 SteveMcG

Gus, it seems every time I try to click on one of these buttons it kicks me back to the front page. Also, I was just trying to get the post in between patients.

You needed more patience.

32 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:58:33pm

re: #22 SteveMcG

re:14 Gus
(my “reply” and “quote” buttons don’t work)

I was trying to be quick about the comment concerning the Soviets. I’m guarding the front desk at my wife’s office. Anyway, I think we were afraid the Russians would throw a monkey wrench into the post war occupation plans, and I’m pretty sure we were afraid that they would get involved in the Chinese civil war. We were hoping Chain Kai Shek (forgive my spelling) would prevail.

I think Gus’s point is that the term Japs is now properly considered pejorative.

Man, those old cartoons are just unbelievably racist.

33 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:59:04pm

re: #29 SteveMcG

Gus, it seems every time I try to click on one of these buttons it kicks me back to the front page. Also, I was just trying to get the post in between patients.

OK. I asked Charles to edit it.

34 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:59:25pm

re: #27 SteveMcG

Still not quite sure how the atmosphere was supposed to ignite, the chemistry itself doesn’t support the notion.

From Wikipedia:

Teller also raised the speculative possibility that an atomic bomb might “ignite” the atmosphere because of a hypothetical fusion reaction of nitrogen nuclei.[note 1] Bethe calculated that it could not happen,[26] and a report co-authored by Teller showed that “no self-propagating chain of nuclear reactions is likely to be started.”[27] In Serber’s account, Oppenheimer mentioned it to Arthur Compton, who “didn’t have enough sense to shut up about it. It somehow got into a document that went to Washington” and was “never laid to rest”.

Looks like an urban legend based on nuclear physics.

35 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 4:59:43pm

I apologize. Won’t happen again.

36 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:00:08pm

re: #35 SteveMcG

I apologize. Won’t happen again.

Good.

37 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:01:49pm

I have to use Internet Explorer here because a certain website won’t work on anything else. It even knows when you try to open it in Chrome! Anyway, I’m afraid to re-install the explorer here because I fear I’ll just screw it up.

38 Stan the Demanded Plan  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:01:53pm

re: #30 b_sharp

What?

im assuming dead or in jail. and theyve checked the prison population.

39 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:02:25pm

Incinerating 100,000 people with plutonium is barbarism while melting them with thermite is just war. Thermite is a sacrament.

40 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:02:28pm

My wife is falling behind.. Patients are getting restless gotta go smooth some feathers.

41 Stan the Demanded Plan  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:02:44pm

re: #29 SteveMcG

Gus, it seems every time I try to click on one of these buttons it kicks me back to the front page. Also, I was just trying to get the post in between patients.

iphone?

42 Stan the Demanded Plan  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:04:17pm

re: #32 goddamnedfrank

I think Gus’s point is that the term Japs is now properly considered pejorative.

[Embedded content]

Man, those old cartoons are just unbelievably racist.

we put people in internment camps!!!! racism abounded then!

43 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:04:25pm

re: #39 Decatur Deb

Incinerating 100,000 people with plutonium is barbarism while melting them with thermite is just war. Thermite is a sacrament.

Both are a barbarism.

A necessary evil is still evil.

44 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:05:07pm

re: #43 b_sharp

Both are a barbarism.

A necessary evil is still evil.

The evil is not in the physics.

45 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:05:46pm

re: #44 Decatur Deb

The evil is not in the physics.

True, it’s in the use.

46 Stan the Demanded Plan  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:06:14pm

re: #42 Stanghazi

fixed. sorry!

47 jhrhv  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:06:51pm

A terrible act that ended a terrible war. Too bad we learned so little and still continue to attack and kill each other over so many stupid things.

48 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:07:14pm

re: #44 Decatur Deb

The evil is not in the physics.

Thermite doesn’t include cancer, birth defects, etc.

49 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:08:25pm

re: #48 Gus

Thermite doesn’t include cancer, birth defects, etc.

That would be a coal-fired powerplant.

50 Stan the Demanded Plan  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:08:31pm

re: #42 Stanghazi

we put people in internment camps!!!! racism abounded then!

omg. fucking ipad or my own stupidity. my comment then the fix to my comment was meant in response to GDF vid.

bleah. i just got home, no alcohol involved. Yet.

51 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:08:37pm

re: #42 Stanghazi

Subtlety wasn’t really in 1940’s America’s toolkit. In an era when blacks in the Navy could only be stewards it’s kind of a miracle that the Tuskegee airmen ever flew.

52 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:08:49pm

re: #39 Decatur Deb

Incinerating 100,000 people with plutonium is barbarism while melting them with thermite is just war. Thermite is a sacrament.

People are kidding themselves if they forget that war is hell. If nuclear weapons hadn’t been available in the 20th century it seems more likely than not that world war three (US vs. USSR) would be in the history books by now.

Mutual assured destruction was both insane and effective.

53 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:09:16pm

re: #23 jamesfirecat

I think It would be rather hard to collect on your winnings I the later case.

Hi James.. I don’t understand the insult towards me the other night.
Could you expand and clarify your comments?

54 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:10:23pm
55 Stan the Demanded Plan  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:10:39pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

Subtlety wasn’t really in 1940’s America’s toolkit. In an era when blacks in the Navy could only be stewards it’s kind of a miracle that the Tuskegee airmen ever flew.

Sticks in my brain that the dangerous payload that blew up Joe Kennedy Jr. was loaded by the black people.

56 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:12:35pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

Subtlety wasn’t really in 1940’s America’s toolkit. In an era when blacks in the Navy could only be stewards it’s kind of a miracle that the Tuskegee airmen ever flew.

That & Elinor Roosevelt. She was helping them even before we got pulled into the war.

57 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:13:10pm

re: #55 Stanghazi

Sticks in my brain that the dangerous payload that blew up Joe Kennedy Jr. was loaded by the black people.

Most of the munitions that went to the Pacific were loaded by black people:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

58 bratwurst  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:13:25pm

re: #28 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

#RIPTedNugent

Fatal case of cat scratch fever?

59 Stan the Demanded Plan  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:14:26pm

re: #57 Decatur Deb

Most of the munitions that went to the Pacific were loaded by black peolple:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

damn. of course.

60 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:21:20pm

Whenever a black patient comes in the conversation in my wife’s waiting room stops for a few minutes.

61 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:22:37pm

re: #60 SteveMcG

Whenever a black patient comes in the conversation in my wife’s waiting room stops for a few minutes.

Lake Woebegon? Fortunately, that’s not true here in Alabama any longer.

62 b_sharp  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:22:53pm

re: #60 SteveMcG

Whenever a black patient comes in the conversation in my wife’s waiting room stops for a few minutes.

It’s a shame we’re still that close to our tribal past.

63 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:23:32pm

Philadelphia.

64 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:24:52pm

re: #63 SteveMcG

Philadelphia.

An economic barrier then? Or does she specialize in sunburn?

65 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:25:31pm

Kind of related.

66 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:25:31pm

Podiatry. A lot of older patients.

67 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:25:39pm

re: #63 SteveMcG

Philadelphia.

What part of Philly?

68 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:28:16pm

re: #66 SteveMcG

Podiatry. A lot of older patients.

Ah. Wonder if podiatry is seen as ‘luxury’ treatment in a poor community.
(RN wife returned from volunteering at the free clinic a half hour ago. Racial breakout is about 50/50, all people smaller than the mesh of the safety net.)

69 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:30:27pm

re: #52 EPR-radar

People are kidding themselves if they forget that war is hell. If nuclear weapons hadn’t been available in the 20th century it seems more likely than not that world war three (US vs. USSR) would be in the history books by now.

Mutual assured destruction was both insane and effective.

And then that jerk McNamara came along and made atomic warfare ‘rational’. Which lead to a huge increase in the number of nuclear weapons. ‘Flexible Response’ was a classic choice of how rational is not the same as smart.

After which he went to the World Bank and fucked up bad there as well.

70 freetoken  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:31:05pm

My take, after having lived in Japan for awhile, is that my parents’ generation’s (who fought in WWII) view of Japan was so fixated that discussing issues like the dropping of the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki becomes an exercise with dealing with an entire generational set of issues.

It’s difficult for us now, removed from that situation, to try and understand what they were thinking and feeling on a day by day basis; and how much more difficult is it for us to understand what was going on in the minds of the Japanese.

71 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:31:53pm

Well this is just lovely. We are now under a Blizzard Warning. First one for the year

72 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:32:01pm

re: #69 Romantic Heretic

And then that jerk McNamara came along and made atomic warfare ‘rational’. Which lead to a huge increase in the number of nuclear weapons. ‘Flexible Response’ was a classic choice of how rational is not the same as smart.

After which he went to the World Bank and fucked up bad there as well.

Had the pleasure of working (way) under both McNamara and Rumsfeld.

73 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:34:03pm
74 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:34:29pm

re: #72 Decatur Deb

Had the pleasure of working (way) under both McNamara and Rumsfeld.

I was reading his bio at Wikipedia. I saw he was a Harvard MBA and I thought, “That explains a lot.”

75 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:35:36pm

re: #73 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

We need him and hundreds of his type to be kept alive. They are valuable data, apart from their humanity.

76 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:36:13pm

re: #74 Romantic Heretic

I was reading his bio at Wikipedia. I saw he was a Harvard MBA and I thought, “That explains a lot.”

They must teach “Failing Upward 101” there.

77 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:36:26pm

re: #73 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Good to hear.

78 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:36:45pm

re: #74 Romantic Heretic

I was reading his bio at Wikipedia. I saw he was a Harvard MBA and I thought, “That explains a lot.”

We had to sign his “Zero Defects” cards back in the 60’s. Some of us misspelled our names.

79 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:37:32pm

re: 67 Vicious Babushka

I really would rather not go into any further detail. Sorry about the cold shoulder. Maybe I shouldn’t have gone there in the first place.

80 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:40:56pm

I’m packing up my cookies and going home. Later, lizards.

Image: h1ADBDF60.jpg

81 Stan the Demanded Plan  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:41:12pm

re: #60 SteveMcG

Whenever a black patient comes in the conversation in my wife’s waiting room stops for a few minutes.

I’m behind but have to respond…….imagine that life. fucking a

82 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:42:21pm

re: #76 EPR-radar

re: #78 Decatur Deb

The best book I ever read on how to run a business made it clear you do not hire MBAs for anything. the author specified Harvard MBAs but that was when they were about only MBAs around then.

83 Varek Raith  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:42:37pm

Been playing SW - The Old Republic the past few days.
I’m not impressed.
Sigh.

84 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:43:52pm

Chris Hedges on Gun Rights, Obama’s Empire, and Serious Revolt

85 Kaessa  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:44:03pm

re: #83 Varek Raith

Been playing SW - The Old Republic the past few days.
I’m not impressed.
Sigh.

re: #83 Varek Raith

Been playing SW - The Old Republic the past few days.
I’m not impressed.
Sigh.

I tried really really hard to like that. I couldn’t do it. Never even hit max level on a single character.

Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, is everything I’ve ever wanted in an MMO.

86 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:44:08pm

re: #82 Romantic Heretic

re: #78 Decatur Deb

The best book I ever read on how to run a business made it clear you do not hire MBAs for anything. the author specified Harvard MBAs but that was when they were about only MBAs around then.

Defense got him from the Ford Motor Company, where I think he was responsible for the Pinto. Then he did as well for us.

87 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:45:14pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

Chris Hedges on Gun Rights, Obama’s Empire, and Serious Revolt

[Embedded content]

Chris Hedges

88 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:45:30pm

re: 68

Some people think podiatry is a luxury. But it is very important for people with circulatory issues. I always hear my wife give an important piece of advice (hint: pass it on) if you or somebody you know is losing the feeling in their feet, they should get a little mirror and lean it against the wall so they can see the bottoms of their feet, in case there is a wound they can’t feel. It’s amazing how bad some of that stuff can get and the patient is oblivious. There isn’t enough circulation to cause a bloody mess and there is little sensation so it doesn’t hurt. Also, a lot of doctors don’t give a crap, they’d just cut the damn thing off. Wound care can be very tedious, but a lot of times an amputated toe becomes a trans met amputation, than an above ankle amputation, and so on. Moral of the story, catch the wound early.

89 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:48:39pm

re: #58 bratwurst

[Link: search.yahoo.com…]

One mention at the bottom. It is from the website mentioned earlier. I am waiting for more information.

90 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:49:25pm

re: #87 Gus

Chris Hedges

Russia Today. Police state. Tyranny. Revolution.
/lol

91 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:49:54pm

re: #90 Killgore Trout

Russia Today. Police state. Tyranny. Revolution.
/lol

Didn’t have to watch.

92 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:50:20pm

re: #90 Killgore Trout

Russia Today. Police state. Tyranny. Revolution.
/lol

That video isn’t working BTW.

93 Gus  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:50:30pm

Shows up as a white block.

94 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:51:30pm

re: #88 SteveMcG

re: 68

Some people think podiatry is a luxury. But it is very important for people with circulatory issues. I always hear my wife give an important piece of advice (hint: pass it on) if you or somebody you know is losing the feeling in their feet, they should get a little mirror and lean it against the wall so they can see the bottoms of their feet, in case there is a wound they can’t feel. It’s amazing how bad some of that stuff can get and the patient is oblivious. There isn’t enough circulation to cause a bloody mess and there is little sensation so it doesn’t hurt. Also, a lot of doctors don’t give a crap, they’d just cut the damn thing off. Wound care can be very tedious, but a lot of times an amputated toe becomes a trans met amputation, than an above ankle amputation, and so on. Moral of the story, catch the wound early.

A while back, there was an excellent series of articles in the New York Times about the US health care “system”.

One point that stuck in my mind was that insurance would cover $30,000 foot amputations, but not cover a few hundred bucks a year in preventative foot care for people with diabetes.

A more perfect indictment of the for-profit model is hard to imagine.

95 bratwurst  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:52:51pm

re: #93 Gus

Shows up as a white block.

Well maybe that is Chris Hedges’ whole point!

96 Kaessa  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:52:52pm

The following derp was just posted in my FB feed:

HITLERBAMA!

97 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:53:54pm

re: #91 Gus

Didn’t have to watch.

I did think it was kind of interesting. He does take swipes at MSNBC. I don’t always have the patience for that kind of stuff but sometimes it’s interesting to see how these people think. He’s sincere, he’s not crazy and there are plenty of people who share his views. It’s fringe but it’s not as uncommon as it should be.

98 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:54:18pm

re: #96 Kaessa

The following derp was just posted in my FB feed:

HITLERBAMA!

Is there a more idiotic political statement than the Obama is Hitler one? I really can’t think of any.

99 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:55:32pm

re: #92 Gus

That video isn’t working BTW.

Damn, liveleak crossposting youtube videos always fucks up the embedding.
Chris Hedges on Gun Rights, Obama’s Empire, and Serious Revolt

100 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:56:40pm

RE: 94

It surprises me that the insurance companies bust balls over this kind of care. they’ll reimburse many quit smoking programs (makes sense). But you didn’t hear this from me: When somebody gets an amputation, their life expectancy takes a dramatic turn for the worse. You keep them alive and healthy, they can stay on the plan for a long time. Something similar with medicare, smokers die a young, expensive death, but they don’t go twenty years running up a lot of nickel and dime expenses.

101 Shvaughn  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:56:52pm

So like.

The solution at Taft turned out to not be “more good guys with guns” killing the student.

But a brave teacher talking the kid down.

Damn.

102 JAFO  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:57:00pm

re: #57 Decatur Deb

Most of the munitions that went to the Pacific were loaded by black people:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

I live 2 miles from there.

103 bratwurst  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:57:32pm

Glenn Beck is finally embracing his true nature as a carnival barker, unveils his DREAM OF BUILDING AN ENTIRE CITY-THEME PARK HYBRID CALLED ‘INDEPENDENCE, USA’.

Word has it the log flume ride will be a giant representation of Glenn’s tear duct system!

104 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 5:58:20pm

re: #98 Iwouldprefernotto

Is there a more idiotic political statement than the Obama is Hitler one? I really can’t think of any.

The one thing that is not in short supply these days is political stupidity from the right:

1) The solution to gun violence is MOAR GUNZ.

2) “Family values” means hating on the gays.

3) The US can maintain military hegemony over the entire world.

4) Tax cuts reduce the deficit.

5) Trickle down is the way to broad-based prosperity.

Since we’re comparing various flavors of infinite stupidity here, they all seem to be contenders.

105 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:00:09pm

re: #104 EPR-radar

The one thing that is not in short supply these days is political stupidity from the right:

1) The solution to gun violence is MOAR GUNZ.

2) “Family values” means hating on the gays.

3) The US can maintain military hegemony over the entire world.

4) Tax cuts reduce the deficit.

5) Trickle down is the way to broad-based prosperity.

Since we’re comparing various flavors of infinite stupidity here, they all seem to be contenders.

Good ones. But I still think Obama = Hitler is the winner, It’s the most offensive, but I’m sure the right wing can top it.

106 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:01:00pm

re: #101 Shvaughn

So like.

The solution at Taft turned out to not be “more good guys with guns” killing the student.

But a brave teacher talking the kid down.

Damn.

Wait, so the teacher didn’t haul out an AK-47 and gun the kid down? He actually talked him down? Inconceivable!

///

107 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:01:14pm

re: #103 bratwurst

Glenn Beck is finally embracing his true nature as a carnival barker, unveils his DREAM OF BUILDING AN ENTIRE CITY-THEME PARK HYBRID CALLED ‘INDEPENDENCE, USA’.

Word has it the log flume ride will be a giant representation of Glenn’s tear duct system!

I’ll donate if my senators and representative will Go Galt there.

108 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:02:16pm

re: #88 SteveMcG

re: 68

Some people think podiatry is a luxury. But it is very important for people with circulatory issues. I always hear my wife give an important piece of advice (hint: pass it on) if you or somebody you know is losing the feeling in their feet, they should get a little mirror and lean it against the wall so they can see the bottoms of their feet, in case there is a wound they can’t feel. It’s amazing how bad some of that stuff can get and the patient is oblivious. There isn’t enough circulation to cause a bloody mess and there is little sensation so it doesn’t hurt. Also, a lot of doctors don’t give a crap, they’d just cut the damn thing off. Wound care can be very tedious, but a lot of times an amputated toe becomes a trans met amputation, than an above ankle amputation, and so on. Moral of the story, catch the wound early.

Quoted for the truth. A Friend of ours Wife was a type 2 Diabetic. Injured her foot and didn’t realize it. By that time it was discovered, it had turned gangrenous and they could not stop the spread even after two amputations (foot and the lower leg). It killed her.

I check my wife’s feet after every bath (She is also a Type 2 Diabetic) now.

109 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:03:24pm

re: #105 Iwouldprefernotto

Good ones. But I still think Obama = Hitler is the winner, It’s the most offensive, but I’m sure the right wing can top it.

My personal favorite is accusing Obama of simultaneously being a fascist and a communist. The contradiction is entertaining.

You are doubtless correct that something more offensive than Obama = Hitler is coming in due course.

110 abolitionist  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:04:00pm

re: #60 SteveMcG

Whenever a black patient comes in the conversation in my wife’s waiting room stops for a few minutes.

I happened to see the last few minutes of an old movie yesterday — Mr and Mrs Loving ( Loving v. Virginia ) About an hour from now, I’ll be absent from here while I watch one of my favorite TV shows — Scandal. Ah, progress.

111 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:04:13pm

re: 108 Bubblehead II

Spread the word. Gonna be more and more diabetics over the years.

112 Shvaughn  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:07:31pm

re: #106 Targetpractice

Wait, so the teacher didn’t haul out an AK-47 and gun the kid down? He actually talked him down? Inconceivable!

///

The NRA’s solution seems to be “shoot the kid with a gun.”

I am more impressed by the teacher’s.

113 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:13:31pm

re: #103 bratwurst

Glenn Beck is finally embracing his true nature as a carnival barker, unveils his DREAM OF BUILDING AN ENTIRE CITY-THEME PARK HYBRID CALLED ‘INDEPENDENCE, USA’.

Word has it the log flume ride will be a giant representation of Glenn’s tear duct system!

Socialist-Free Ayn Rand Paradise To Charge For All Individual Services, Including Medical Help If Injured In Park, Water, Bathroom Access, Etc.

all patrons required to carry loaded “independence and freedom” handguns in park for self-protection and politeness

114 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:15:42pm

A Nate Silver prediction is getting serious consideration on a Free Republic thread.

(He’s scoping out the Super Bowl picks.)

115 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:18:48pm

About today’s school shooting and the teacher talking the kid down, I want to add something from a personal experience. Once upon a time, I wa a split second from being the murderer. I was filled with rage and despair, and I really don’t know what I was going to do. I was picking fights all over school (I was in college) and I just couldn’t come down. Finally one night, I just pulled a policeman out of his car and the next thing I knew I had his gun. I had no idea what I was going to do with it. All of a suuden I had the Holy shit, what do I do now? moment. I threw the gun one way and ran like hell the other. Fortunately for me (and I realize what that context says about me) the policeman went to get his gun first and I got away. Anyway that’s my guess about why the shooter handed over the gun. Hat’s off to the teacher who kept his cool. If that shooter didn’t have somebody to hand the gun over to, God knows what he would have done next. In my case, since I had never handled a gun before, and I will never, ever touch one (it’s been twent four years, but I still don’t trust myself) I probably would never have figured out how the safety worked (assuming it was on safe to begin with) I go over that night every day of my life. I think the most likely thing was I was trying to commit suicide by cop, but I’ll never know.

116 engineer cat  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:18:51pm

re: #103 bratwurst

Glenn Beck is finally embracing his true nature as a carnival barker, unveils his DREAM OF BUILDING AN ENTIRE CITY-THEME PARK HYBRID CALLED ‘INDEPENDENCE, USA’.

Word has it the log flume ride will be a giant representation of Glenn’s tear duct system!

BUT WILL THERE BE DINOSAURS WITH ADAM AND EVE!?!

117 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:19:40pm

re: #67 Vicious Babushka

VB, are you still here?

118 TedStriker  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:22:56pm

re: #103 bratwurst

Glenn Beck is finally embracing his true nature as a carnival barker, unveils his DREAM OF BUILDING AN ENTIRE CITY-THEME PARK HYBRID CALLED ‘INDEPENDENCE, USA’.

Word has it the log flume ride will be a giant representation of Glenn’s tear duct system!

Where Galt’s Gulch is not only a pseudo-philosophical construct, it’s also a ride!

///

119 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:23:57pm

How’d you like to have a job in a place like that? I think they’d have to have a psychotherapy rider on the workers’ comp.

120 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:25:25pm

re: #112 Shvaughn

The NRA’s solution seems to be “shoot the kid with a gun.”

I am more impressed by the teacher’s.

School shooters often cannot be talked down. So they planning needs to focus on someone who can’t be talked down. There is no morally sane person who will not agree that an outcome where no one died and the shooter was convinced to surrender is about the best outcome that could be hoped for.

121 SteveMcG  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:27:06pm

I think once the shooter starts killing people, he can’t really surrrender, and I think that’s why they usually wind up shooting themselves.

122 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:40:44pm

re: #121 SteveMcG

I think once the shooter starts killing people, he can’t really surrrender, and I think that’s why they usually wind up shooting themselves.

That’s some of it. There are only two fit punishments for mass murder:

1. Death
2. Life Imprisonment Without the Possibility of Parole.

No way for things to be otherwise, since someone who goes on a killing spree must be considered beyond societal redemption. God may forgive him if he repents, but he has abused his freedom to such a vile end that he has forfeited all rights to it.

123 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 6:56:52pm

re: #86 Decatur Deb

Defense got him from the Ford Motor Company, where I think he was responsible for the Pinto. Then he did as well for us.

I believe it was the Edsel. There was only one report of an Edsel being stolen in all of the U.S. in the car’s short existence.

124 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 8:02:48pm

re: #82 Romantic Heretic

Here’s another Harvard MBA with a dubious list of achievements: Meg Whitman. She’s now president and CEO of HP.

An MBA is a ticket to a well-paying job. It does not guarantee you are a genius at running a company. I’m waiting to see how HP does under Meg’s leadership.

125 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 8:08:04pm
The NRA’s solution seems to be “shoot the kid with a gun.”

I am more impressed by the teacher’s.

‘One of the many solutions to a bad guy with a gun is a cool head and reasonable conversation’ is not as sexy a slogan.

126 Shvaughn  Thu, Jan 10, 2013 11:45:59pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

That’s some of it. There are only two fit punishments for mass murder:

1. Death
2. Life Imprisonment Without the Possibility of Parole.

No way for things to be otherwise, since someone who goes on a killing spree must be considered beyond societal redemption. God may forgive him if he repents, but he has abused his freedom to such a vile end that he has forfeited all rights to it.

Sounds like the death penalty is an incentive to kill as many people as you can and then kill yourself.

127 Major Tom  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 5:35:59am

Wow, I guess I should have foreseen more of a discussion.
I wasn’t suggesting that we shouldnt have used the bombs. I really don’t claim to know what the right choice was. I only know what I am told, what I read, and the discussions by the key actors in documentaries like “The World at War” etc….
It’s true that POWs would have suffered more, it’s true the fire bombing was inhuman. I was simply stating that there was nothing humanitarian about the war, about the use of the bombs, and I’m not sure another month or so of conventional war couldn’t have persuaded Japan to surrender, or at least give terms and negotiate.
My main point was that the was so unnecessarily brutal. Killing 1/2 a million to prevent a hypothetical million casualties. Only in WWII could that logic seem sane. But we had armies squaring off with milllions of men on each side. It was insane. The use of ‘the bomb’ no matter the reasons, the rationale, was horrific, and we all know it. Which is why we haven’t used it again.

128 po8crg  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:14:03pm

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

The use of Little Boy was a horror, but it was justified since it prevented the ever greater horror that would have resulted from an invasion of the Japanese Home Islands.

Certainly “was reasonably believed at the time to result”. There’s a case that the Soviet invasion of Manchuria and Korea was also a major factor in Japanese decision-making. Getting those three hammer blows (ie, Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Soviet DoW) all in the month of August 1945 finally broke the will of the Japanese High Command. I don’t think there’s any way to determine which one was the critical factor.

Also, the USAAF was killing as many as Hiroshima every month or so with conventional bombing. How much of Japan would actually be left when the US Army landed on Honshu in March or April of 1946 is a very good question. There would be at least another million dead from bombing, and probably a similar number from starvation.

If Japan hadn’t surrendered, then it would be a charnel-house by the war’s end.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

TwitterFacebook

Turn off all ads for a full year by subscribing!
For about 33 cents a day (per month) or 22 cents a day (per year), our subscription option turns off all advertisements at LGF!
Read more...

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Articles

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Pages

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form
LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.

Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
Randall Gross
When Thanksgiving Was Weird
Oddest thing: Thanksgiving in turn-of-the-20th century America used to look a heckuva lot like Halloween. People - young and old - got all dressed up and staged costumed crawls through the streets. In Los Angeles, Chicago and other places ...

1 minute ago
Views: 21 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
Lumberhead
One Man Should Not Dictate Immigration Policy
Well played. You know, the more I mull over the Republican complaint about how immigration reform is being implemented, the more I sympathize with them. Public policy, especially on big, hot button issues like immigration shouldn't be made by one ...

12 hours, 39 minutes ago
Views: 133 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
teleskiguy
“Chelsea Hotel” performed by Tal Wilkenfeld
I first saw Austrailian bass player Tal Wilkenfeld play with Jeff Beck (not live, mind you. On YouTube) and was amazed at her skills and chops. She was only 20 when she scored that gig. She's coming into her own ...

2 days, 9 hours ago
Views: 159 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 4
FemNaziBitch
History of Laws Concerning Immigration and Naturalization in the United States -WIKI
The United States Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787. Article I, section 8, clause 4 of the Constitution expressly gives the United States Congress the power to establish a uniform rule of naturalization.[1] Pursuant to this power, Congress ...

2 days, 17 hours ago
Views: 263 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 2
MichaelJ
COMFORTABLY NUMB - Peahi Nov 12 on Vimeo
Channel angle of the Nov 12th swell at Peahi.

6 days, 6 hours ago
Views: 432 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 2
Romantic Heretic
Money Makes Us Less Rational
Here's an interesting article on scientific studies that demonstrate how rationality and empathy break down is the presence of large amounts of money.

1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 648 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
Indy GOP Refugee
Dissent Goes Missing in Pro-Labor L.A. City Council - LA Times
That is not good govenance. The San Fernando Valley lawmaker stood up at a recent meeting and rattled off numbers from a new report on the city's economic health. Sales tax revenue? Up 26% since 2009. Business tax revenue? Up ...

1 week, 5 days ago
Views: 968 • Comments: 6
Tweets: 0 • Rating: -2
wheat-dogghazi-bola-trality
Uncomfortable Xi-Abe Handshake Spawns New Winnie the Pooh Comparison
Asian powerhouses China and Japan have not been on the best of terms lately, following disagreements over who has claim to some islands -- and possible undersea gas and oil fields -- in the South China Sea. So perhaps we ...

1 week, 5 days ago
Views: 2,017 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 4
EiMitch
CollegeHumor: If Call of Duty Were Treated Like A Real Thing
Mildly NSFW (bleeped-out language) CollegeHumor seems to be doing a bit of cross-promotion with CoD: Advanced Warfare. Consider that disclosure. That aside, it was funny because... Actually I can't explain without spoiling it. As for the game being advertised, I ...

1 week, 6 days ago
Views: 944 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
 Frank says:

You get nothing with your college degree -- from Roxy & Elsewhere