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White House Denies Planning Construction of Death Star

“The Administration does not support blowing up planets”
US News • Views: 28,553

Tonight the White House is denying reports that they’re planning construction of a Death Star.

WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:

Secure resources and funding, and begin construction of a Death Star by 2016.

Those who sign here petition the United States government to secure funding and resources, and begin construction on a Death Star by 2016.

By focusing our defense resources into a space-superiority platform and weapon system such as a Death Star, the government can spur job creation in the fields of construction, engineering, space exploration, and more, and strengthen our national defense.

The official denial:

This Isn’t the Petition Response You’re Looking For

The Administration shares your desire for job creation and a strong national defense, but a Death Star isn’t on the horizon. Here are a few reasons:

  • The construction of the Death Star has been estimated to cost more than $850,000,000,000,000,000. We’re working hard to reduce the deficit, not expand it.
  • The Administration does not support blowing up planets.
  • Why would we spend countless taxpayer dollars on a Death Star with a fundamental flaw that can be exploited by a one-man starship?

[…]

If you do pursue a career in a science, technology, engineering or math-related field, the Force will be with us! Remember, the Death Star’s power to destroy a planet, or even a whole star system, is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

Jump to bottom

422 comments

1 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:24:06pm

It’s a trap!!!!! /

2 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:25:26pm

re: #1 lawhawk

Gotcha!

3 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:26:06pm

“This Isn’t the Petition Response You’re Looking For”

4 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:27:15pm

We know the POTUS loves his Star Wars toys…

Image: obama-light-saber-sm.jpg

5 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:31:14pm

re: #4 Shvaughn

The force is strong with the Presidents. Obama had it. Dubya had it. Even Lincoln had it.

6 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:32:05pm

I am going to repost this from last night. Somehow, I think this might be appropriate. I was driving down the highway yesterday and read this on the back of a “dangerous” cargo type vehicle. Had to take a pic, is a bit blurry, and tried to clean it up in Post processing.

I kind of think the same message should be on any Death Star, real or imagined.

if you can read this …

7 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:33:03pm

And I loose anoth game of “onion or not?”with myself….

8 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:33:35pm

If there is one thing I like about the Obama administration it’s the fact that they aren’t afraid to have some fun once in a while.

9 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:35:23pm

Evening Lizardim. I got a HUGE kick out of this story, geek that I am. Like them or hate them, you have to admit, the Obama administration does have a good sense of humor. I know some people will decry how many taxpayer dollars it cost to post this response, but honestly - those types need to take the stick out of their bum and cut loose a little bit.

10 Kaessa  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:36:45pm

re: #6 FemNaziBitch

I am going to repost this from last night. Somehow, I think this might be appropriate. I was driving down the highway yesterday and read this on the back of a “dangerous” cargo type vehicle. Had to take a pic, is a bit blurry, and tried to clean it up in Post processing.

I kind of think the same message should be on any Death Star, real or imagined.

if you can read this …

That’s awesome. Yeah, a tanker full of gasoline is not something you want to see upside down. Ever.

BTW, my hubby (who works in the oil and gas industry) thought it was hilarious.

11 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:37:40pm

White House Denies Planning Construction of Death Star: Darrel Issa plans congressional hearings.

12 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:38:49pm

re: #11 Gus

White House Denies Planning Construction of Death Star: Darrel Issa plans congressional hearings.

What’s the over/under on how long it’ll take the tinfoil hat brigade to connect the Death Star with HAARP and other similar hyper-fantastical sooper-sekrit death/destruction rays?

13 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:38:51pm

Of course the White house is denying the Death Star. That is where the Obamacare Death Panels are hidden (in a small room right next to the 2m wide exhaust port…).

14 Kaessa  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:38:51pm

Back on topic, this is the best petition response ever. I absolutely love that people in the Obama administration actually have a sense of humor and are not afraid to use it.

15 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:39:07pm

I thought the Star Wars Missile Defense stuff was a Reagan thing!

16 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:39:17pm

Rats! I was hoping to get a lucrative contract supplying zero-g shower heads for this thing. Damn lobbyists! Can’t keep their mouths shut!

17 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:40:27pm

re: #11 Gus

White House Denies Planning Construction of Death Star: Darrel Issa plans congressional hearings.

Biden eagerly awaits the results on movies and video games. History books to be changed that Han never shot first.

18 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:41:28pm

re: #11 Gus

Iowa seeks construction contract on first components of Death Star, hopes to build interstellar space vehicle contract into top industry by 2263. Issa’s pissed because Iowa gets jump on his own efforts at building up the San Diego Space Shipyards.

19 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:42:19pm

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Biden eagerly awaits the results on movies and video games. History books to be changed that Han never shot first.

Rush the Hutt to drop opponents into the Saarlac pit —- live coverage on Fox News.

20 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:42:20pm

What, you didn’t think that the Defense Department really spent $400 on toilet seats or $1,000 on hammers did you?

21 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:43:26pm

:(

22 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:43:53pm

re: #10 Kaessa

That’s awesome. Yeah, a tanker full of gasoline is not something you want to see upside down. Ever.

BTW, my hubby (who works in the oil and gas industry) thought it was hilarious.

I was first behind this vehicle at the stop-light waiting to turn onto the highway. And as one does while waiting, I absent-mindedly was reading the back of the tanker. When I got to the bottom, and the upside-down writing, I squinted and read it out loud. Then the light changed and we turned.

It was raining and it took a while before all the traffic got situated for me to feel safe enough to snap a shot. Could kick myself for not thinking quick enough while we were at the stop-light.

23 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:45:27pm

re: #18 lawhawk

Iowa seeks construction contract on first components of Death Star, hopes to build interstellar space vehicle contract into top industry by 2263. Issa’s pissed because Iowa gets jump on his own efforts at building up the San Diego Space Shipyards.

Issa’s nightmare:

Image: USS_Enterprise_(alternate_reality)_under_construction.jpg

24 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:45:30pm

I’m getting flash-backs of Star-Trek, “I Touched The Sky” episode.

Larry Niven’s Ring-World series.

And several Sci-Fi short stories about artificial worlds.

25 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:46:32pm
The Administration does not support blowing up planets.

I knew it! They’re closet peaceniks, drone zaps and Osama bin Sharkbait notwithstanding.

There’s another solution though, the Second Amendment (selah!).
I demand the right to build my own Death Star!
They’ll get it when they pry my cold dead fingers out of it, if they still have a planet by then!

26 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:48:16pm

re: #11 Gus

White House Denies Planning Construction of Death Star: Darrel Issa plans congressional hearings.

Building a Star Destroyer though.
Image: trimaran1.jpg

27 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:48:35pm

re: #20 lawhawk

What, you didn’t think that the Defense Department really spent $400 on toilet seats or $1,000 on hammers did you?

We used only the highest quality of materials to build Nuclear Subs.
Even a bolt was made from exotic materials and were extensive tested.
So a 20 dollar bolt was well worth it.

28 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:50:02pm

re: #12 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

What’s the over/under on how long it’ll take the tinfoil hat brigade to connect the Death Star with HAARP and other similar hyper-fantastical sooper-sekrit death/destruction rays?

Since the under is zero and negative time is impossible, with current technology, there can be no under.

29 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:50:08pm

re: #20 lawhawk

What, you didn’t think that the Defense Department really spent $400 on toilet seats or $1,000 on hammers did you?

I thought the $500 hammer was for the C-130 but my latest search shows that it was a titanium hammer used for the construction of the SR-71. Never really was a $500 claw hammer.

30 austin_blue  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:50:40pm

Please use the linky and view the entire response. Damn clever!

31 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:50:56pm

re: #28 Romantic Heretic

Since the under is zero and negative time is impossible, with current technology, there can be no under.

Keep your logic out of this, shill./

32 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:51:22pm

re: #29 Gus

I thought the $500 hammer was for the C-130 but my latest search shows that it was a titanium hammer used for the construction of the SR-71. Never really was a $500 claw hammer.

Look at Mr FancyPants and his titanium tools.
/

33 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:52:03pm
34 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:52:31pm

re: #32 Varek Raith

Look at Mr FancyPants and his titanium tools.
/

*ahem*

That’s MC HammerPants to you, pleb.

/Thankyou, thankyou, I’ll be here all week

35 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:53:52pm

re: #30 austin_blue

Please use the linky and view the entire response. Damn clever!

Written by one Paul Shawcross. I will make a note of that name.

36 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:55:46pm

I have to ask. What advantages does a $134 to $500 titanium hammer have over a regular $15 forged steel hammer?

37 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:56:23pm

re: #36 wheat-dogghazi

I have to ask. What advantages does a $134 to $500 titanium hammer have over a regular $15 forged steel hammer?

It’s titanium.
Nuff said.
:P

38 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:57:40pm

re: #36 wheat-dogghazi

I have to ask. What advantages does a $134 to $500 titanium hammer have over a regular $15 forged steel hammer?

When one is hammering on the titanium skin of a very expensive just-barely-sub-orbital spaceplane, I imagine you want a tool that is at least as hard as the material one is hammering.

39 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 6:59:31pm

re: #27 HoosierHoops

We used only the highest quality of materials to build Nuclear Subs.
Even a bolt was made from exotic materials and were extensive tested.
So a 20 dollar bolt was well worth it.

Considering the pressures those things were under at their design depth, I begrudge them nothing. I liked my land based M-60A3 steel coffin much better. I hated the thought of burning to death, but that was still better than insta-squish if the pressure hull gave way. Shudder.

40 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:00:18pm

re: #36 wheat-dogghazi

I have to ask. What advantages does a $134 to $500 titanium hammer have over a regular $15 forged steel hammer?

Really? Try taking a regular hammer in to a battery compartment and the sub blows up.. This isn’t play school with the military.

41 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:00:42pm

re: #38 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Also, I learned from Wiki that the Blackbird’s skin and frame would corrode when manipulated by normal cadmium-plated drop forged tools.

42 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:01:49pm

re: #38 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

When one is hammering on the titanium skin of a very expensive just-barely-sub-orbital spaceplane, I imagine you want a tool that is at least as hard as the material one is hammering.

Not sure yet. Could have been chosen or experimented with since “commonplace cadmium-plated tools could not be used as they also caused corrosion.” Because of the titanium contruction.

43 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:02:48pm

re: #36 wheat-dogghazi

When you hammer materials, you don’t want to create potential corrosion points and the materials need to be at least as hard as the item you’re hammering. Titanium is pretty hard to forge/shape, so hammers have to be just as hard.

44 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:02:52pm

re: #38 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

When one is hammering on the titanium skin of a very expensive just-barely-sub-orbital spaceplane, I imagine you want a tool that is at least as hard as the material one is hammering.

Well, sure I get that, but I was referring to Varek’s link to contractor’s tools.
re: #33 Varek Raith

Heh.
[Link: www.dallugetools.com…]

Ti is about 45% the density of Fe, so a Ti would be lighter than a regular steel one of the same size, but it’s the mass of the hammer that does the work of nailing.

The concept of using something as low-tech as a hammer on a high tech aircraft brings a smile to my lips.

45 Stan the Demanded Plan  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:03:05pm

re: #14 Kaessa

Back on topic, this is the best petition response ever. I absolutely love that people in the Obama administration actually have a sense of humor and are not afraid to use it.

Concur. They are not out of touch.

46 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:04:49pm

re: #40 HoosierHoops

Really? Try taking a regular hammer in to a battery compartment and the sub blows up.. This isn’t play school with the military.

Still got a copper-berylium screwdriver that got mixed in with my toolkit.

47 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:04:51pm

re: #44 wheat-dogghazi

The concept of using something as low-tech as a hammer on a high tech aircraft brings a smile to my lips.

Pilots are pretty good at Macgyvering their way around their aircraft. They have to be, since planes last practically forever. I wouldn’t be surprised to find a small toolbox and a roll of duct tape in the cockpit of your average airliner.

48 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:06:08pm

re: #47 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Useful for subduing the occasional drunken passenger, too.

49 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:06:21pm

re: #46 Decatur Deb

Still got a copper-berylium screwdriver that got mixed in with my toolkit.

Those can’t cause a spark, right?

50 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:07:20pm

re: #49 Varek Raith

Those can’t cause a spark, right?

Yeah—but they can be very toxic. You don’t grind or file them.

51 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:08:28pm

re: #40 HoosierHoops

Really? Try taking a regular hammer in to a battery compartment and the sub blows up.. This isn’t play school with the military.

OK, I’m feeling dumb here, being a former science teacher and all. Why? Too high a concentration of H2 in the air might combust from sparks?

52 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:08:40pm

re: #39 William Barnett-Lewis

Considering the pressures those things were under at their design depth, I begrudge them nothing. I liked my land based M-60A3 steel coffin much better. I hated the thought of burning to death, but that was still better than insta-squish if the pressure hull gave way. Shudder.

My understanding is that in certain circumstances you’d still burn. I read that under certain pressures, if the hull is breached, the air catches fire.

54 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:09:52pm

re: #50 Decatur Deb

Yeah—but they can be very toxic. You don’t grind or file them.

Here, take this antimatter hammer.
I’ll be in orbit.

55 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:10:11pm

re: #46 Decatur Deb

Still got a copper-berylium screwdriver that got mixed in with my toolkit.

Think I had a rock of that when I was a kid.

56 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:10:29pm
57 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:11:10pm
58 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:11:25pm

Use of steel tools on this device will result in immediate death.

//

59 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:11:37pm

Evening lizards!

I got a call from a lender in Nashville today. I might get back in the mortgage biz again :)

60 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:11:55pm

re: #33 Varek Raith

Heh.
[Link: www.dallugetools.com…]

I want one!

61 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:13:11pm

re: #51 wheat-dogghazi

OK, I’m feeling dumb here, being a former science teacher and all. Why? Too high a concentration of H2 in the air might combust from sparks?

Boom! You know what was expensive? Us Nuclear workers would turn in the tools we had that day and they would be destroyed. I got new tools every day…

62 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:13:16pm

re: #57 freetoken

It was 60 years ago and they still haven’t accepted desegregation? Nothing like advertising your racism with every single editorial.

63 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:13:19pm

re: #58 Gus

Use of steel tools on this device will result in immediate death.

//

If my doomsday device must come with a self-destruct button, it will not be a big red button labeled “Danger: Do Not Push.” That button will instead trigger a spray of bullets on whoever is dumb enough to press it.

64 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:13:19pm

Copper-beryllium tools = non-sparking?

65 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:13:47pm

re: #63 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

If my doomsday device must come with a self-destruct button, it will not be a big red button labeled “Danger: Do Not Push.” That button will instead trigger a spray of bullets on whoever is dumb enough to press it.

What’s this button do?

BOOM!

66 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:13:56pm

re: #54 Varek Raith

Here, take this antimatter hammer.
I’ll be in orbit.

Magic Wand!!!

67 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:14:00pm

re: #3 Shvaughn

“This Isn’t the Petition Response You’re Looking For”

IMHO-Thread win.

68 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:14:40pm

Would grounding the tool work?

69 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:15:02pm

1 ounce of antimatter = 1.22 megatons.
1 pound = 20 megatons.
Fun stuff, no?

70 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:15:03pm

re: #65 Gus

What’s this button do?

BOOM!

IF YOU PUSH THIS BUTTON RUN

71 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:15:27pm

re: #68 Gus

Would grounding the tool work?

Still a risk of hitting something that is at a different voltage, working in an electrical room.

72 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:15:28pm

re: #61 HoosierHoops

Boom! You know what was expensive? Us Nuclear workers would turn in the tools we had that day and they would be destroyed. I got new tools every day…

I hadn’t heard that before. Wear causing the possibility of particulates in the air?

73 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:15:34pm

re: #68 Gus

Probably sparks from striking something, as in flint and steel.

74 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:15:37pm

re: #68 Gus

Would grounding the tool work?

Sounds like adding steps to the process just opens more avenues for sparks and boom.

75 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:16:27pm

What I want to know is why the petition response assumed people were asking to build a Death Star to the original plans. It is universally acknowledged that the original design was flawed, and Emperor Palpatine had its designer eaten by piranha beetles as punishment (though the Emperor transferred Bevel Lemelisk’s life force into a cloned body to allows the skilled designer to continue to serve him).

But Lemelisk proved worthy of the cost of resurrecting him. His design for the 2nd Death Star was the subject of the petition. It has thousands of duel laser cannons to swat Rebel starfighters (MOAR GUNZ!), improved targeting to let it target capital ships, it has a faster and more efficient superlaser charging system (so its more energy efficient and overall greener that the first design, with its fusion power system the Death Star II design should earn LEADS Gold certification), and best of all it replaces the vulnerable thermal exhaust ports with thermal ventilation ducts that are only 5mm wide, making them impossible to get a shot into.

So the White House is clearly mistaken, basing its denial on the flawed first Death Star and ignoring the perfected second design. Given that the President is known to hate the US military, we must assume his mendacity over the Death Star is further evidence of his Kenyan Anti-Imperialism.

Note: The first two paragraph use materials from the Star Wars universe. The last paragraph is done in /wingnut to make sure it is clear that that paragraph (or anything in this post) is not be taken seriously.

76 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:16:29pm

This just shows how a custom tool might sometimes cost $500. Including hammers.

77 jaunte  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:16:52pm
The construction of the Death Star has been estimated to cost more than $850,000,000,000,000,000.

Platinum coin, duh.

78 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:16:53pm

re: #64 Gus

Copper-beryllium tools = non-sparking?

Yes, for flammable/explosive atmospheres and dusts.

79 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:17:44pm

re: #68 Gus

Would grounding the tool work?

No. When you strike flint and steel together, it’s the steel that flakes off and burns/sparks, not the flint. You need a tool material that won’t do that.

80 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:17:54pm

re: #77 jaunte

Platinum coin, duh.

FoxNews is on it!

81 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:18:24pm

re: #56 FemNaziBitch

Where is Floral Giraffe?

I posted for her from that Zooborns post earlier today, so I’ve got you covered, GGT.

82 engineer cat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:20:35pm

r b nurdz

7:20 on a fri night and there are still a number of other engineers on the floor

83 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:20:41pm

If I had a hammer.

84 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:20:55pm

re: #79 goddamnedfrank

No. When you strike flint and steel together, it’s the steel that flakes off and burns/sparks, not the flint. You need a tool material that won’t do that.

Reminds me of a moderately destructive childhood entertainment of mine —- setting steel wool on fire. Burns rather well…

85 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:21:01pm

re: #83 Gus

If I had a hammer.

You’d be MC.

86 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:21:15pm

re: #72 William Barnett-Lewis

I hadn’t heard that before. Wear causing the possibility of particulates in the air?

No.. You use a tool working in a Radcon environment and it becomes hot as well. And nobody..and I mean nobody would take home radiological contaminated tools.. Even if they were top quality tools.

87 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:21:49pm

re: #85 Varek Raith

You’d be MC.

900 foot…

88 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:21:51pm

re: #84 EPR-radar

Reminds me of a moderately destructive childhood entertainment of mine —- setting steel wool on fire. Burns rather well…

Makes a nice science demo: steel wool in pure O2 = rapid oxidation.

89 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:22:58pm

re: #83 Gus

If I had a hammer.

You could write a long blog about it.

[Link: barelybad.com…]

90 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:25:08pm

My job interview this morning panned out and I got the offer. So pending my signing the offer letter and going over the opportunity with a couple people, I’ll be back to work on Tuesday. So for me today was a Good Day.

91 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:25:16pm

Let me go on record as stating that the cost estimate for the Death Star has been grossly inflated by the Administration, probably for political reasons.

A back of the envelope calculation is all we can do for now, and there are few precedents for estimating a project like this, which will take global commitment.

The major cost will be in launching the sub-units into orbit, from the Earth’s surface. Say $50 million per launch, taking a thousand launches a day (probably need roughly 100 launch platforms scattered around the globe) … scales to $50 billion a day, assuming no reduction due to mass manufacture.

The bulk of the light elements can be had from our moon, which reduces launch costs from Earth but means establishing a moon colony for mining and refining. Let’s say that the costs can be split 50/50 between Earth based launches and Moon based launches, and let’s say the Moon based production costs eat up the savings in smaller gravity well costs.

So if there are 2000 payloads/day, that’s $100 billion per day, or enough to employ everybody on Earth.

If it were to take 100 years to complete the project, that’s 37,000 days or so…

Makes the total production costs (not including inflation) at around $3700 trillion. That’s equivalent to the totality of the World’s GDP for roughly 50 years.

Far, far less than the “estimate” produced by the White House.

92 engineer cat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:26:22pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

excellent! congrats!

93 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:26:45pm

re: #86 HoosierHoops

No.. You use a tool working in a Radcon environment and it becomes hot as well. And nobody..and I mean nobody would take home radiological contaminated tools.. Even if they were top quality tools.

Ah. So that would simply be in the reactor spaces? Or was that the case in the rest of the boat as well?

94 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:26:54pm

re: #91 freetoken

Obamalies! //

95 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:27:11pm

re: #84 EPR-radar

Reminds me of a moderately destructive childhood entertainment of mine —- setting steel wool on fire. Burns rather well…

Wait a minute. Steel doesn’t burn… or melt. Impossible. I heard it from a troofer!

//

96 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:27:22pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

My job interview this morning panned out and I got the offer. So pending my signing the offer letter and going over the opportunity with a couple people, I’ll be back to work on Tuesday. So for me today was a Good Day.

Congrats. Took a while, but we’ll all crawl out from the 2008 wreckage.

97 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:27:23pm

re: #91 freetoken

Ah, but what about cost overruns? How many high tech government projects have been built under budget?

98 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:27:55pm

re: #93 William Barnett-Lewis

Ah. So that would simply be in the reactor spaces? Or was that the case in the rest of the boat as well?

No just us Nukes..

99 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:29:22pm

re: #91 freetoken

Let me go on record as stating that the cost estimate for the Death Star has been grossly inflated by the Administration, probably for political reasons.
…snip…

Makes the total production costs (not including inflation) at around $3700 trillion. That’s equivalent to the totality of the World’s GDP for roughly 50 years.

Far, far less than the “estimate” produced by the White House.

Let me intrtoduce you to a DoD “Cost Plus” no-bid contingency contract.

100 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:29:23pm

re: #97 wheat-dogghazi

Believe it or not, there have been projects brought in on cost and/or on budget.

And… if everybody on the planet is working on this, there can’t be “cost” over-runs as there are no other people to employ, the moon resources have no previous owner to claim a price, thus they are essentially there for the taking.

101 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:30:06pm

re: #99 Decatur Deb

Let me intrtoduce you to a DoD “Cost Plus” no-bid contingency contract.

Especially one with new technology.

102 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:31:42pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

I posted for her from that Zooborns post earlier today, so I’ve got you covered, GGT.

:)

103 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:32:55pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

My job interview this morning panned out and I got the offer. So pending my signing the offer letter and going over the opportunity with a couple people, I’ll be back to work on Tuesday. So for me today was a Good Day.

Awesome! I might be following your example in a few weeks.

104 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:33:22pm

re: #97 wheat-dogghazi

Ah, but what about cost overruns? How many high tech government projects have been built under budget?

That’s why we assign Varek as the project’s director. If parts start to see ‘unexpected costs’, then the offending company’s CEO will simply find it impossible to breath all of a sudden. There is nothing like a Sith Lord to for convincing weasels not to try to low-ball you.

105 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:36:35pm

re: #91 freetoken

Let me go on record as stating that the cost estimate for the Death Star has been grossly inflated by the Administration, probably for political reasons.

A back of the envelope calculation is all we can do for now, and there are few precedents for estimating a project like this, which will take global commitment.

The major cost will be in launching the sub-units into orbit, from the Earth’s surface. Say $50 million per launch, taking a thousand launches a day (probably need roughly 100 launch platforms scattered around the globe) … scales to $50 billion a day, assuming no reduction due to mass manufacture.

You know, i love this blog.
The bulk of the light elements can be had from our moon, which reduces launch costs from Earth but means establishing a moon colony for mining and refining. Let’s say that the costs can be split 50/50 between Earth based launches and Moon based launches, and let’s say the Moon based production costs eat up the savings in smaller gravity well costs.

So if there are 2000 payloads/day, that’s $100 billion per day, or enough to employ everybody on Earth.

If it were to take 100 years to complete the project, that’s 37,000 days or so…

Makes the total production costs (not including inflation) at around $3700 trillion. That’s equivalent to the totality of the World’s GDP for roughly 50 years.

Far, far less than the “estimate” produced by the White House.

106 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:36:57pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

That’s why we assign Varek as the project’s director. If parts start to see ‘unexpected costs’, then the offending company’s CEO will simply find it impossible to breath all of a sudden. There is nothing like a Sith Lord to for convincing weasels not to try to low-ball you.

“I find your lack of faith in the budget and schedule disturbing”

107 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:38:42pm

The Dark Side of full of wonderful abilities that inspire motivation.

108 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:39:55pm

re: #107 Varek Raith

The Dark Side of full of wonderful abilities that inspire motivation.

The House Republicans are not as forgiving as I am.

109 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:44:40pm

We are living on the Death Star. Earth was destroyed then rebuilt. I saw it here:

110 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:44:46pm

There goes my security clearance. No wait, I never had one.

111 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:45:21pm

re: #110 Gus

There goes my security clearance. No wait, I never had one.

I wouldn’t give you one.

:0

112 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:45:34pm

re: #108 EPR-radar

The House Republicans are not as forgiving as I am.

“You don’t know the things nightmares are truly made of, but I do. You try to low-ball this project again and I’ll launch you into space in an escape pod whose radio’s speaker will programed to play nothing but Bryan Fischer speeches continuously for 72 hours. After that the emergency beacon will activate, but none of the others punished in this way lasted for than 30 hours before suffering brain shutdown from the extreme levels of DERP. “

113 andres  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:46:19pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

My job interview this morning panned out and I got the offer. So pending my signing the offer letter and going over the opportunity with a couple people, I’ll be back to work on Tuesday. So for me today was a Good Day.

Congratulations!

114 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:46:31pm

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

“You don’t know the things nightmares are truly made of, but I do. You try to low-ball this project again and I’ll launch you into space in an escape pod whose radio’s speaker will programed to play nothing but Bryan Fischer speeches continuously for 72 hours. After that the emergency beacon will activate, but none of the others punished in this way lasted for than 30 hours before suffering brain shutdown from the extreme levels of DERP. “

What Woody Allen Movie was it in which old Howard Cosell broadcasts were determined to be torture?

115 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:46:34pm

re: #111 FemNaziBitch

I wouldn’t give you one.

:0

O_o

116 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:47:10pm

I’m always amazed at what get’s attention on the Pages and what doesn’t.

117 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:48:08pm

re: #105 FemNaziBitch

Never mind

118 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:49:23pm

re: #114 FemNaziBitch

What Woody Allen Movie was it in which old Howard Cosell broadcasts were determined to be torture?

I wouldn’t know. My family has been forbidden by my mother from watching Woody Allen movies ever since it came out he was sleeping with his own stepdaughter. She deemed him a sick freak for that and declared that none of us were to ever watch his movies again.

119 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:50:33pm

Newest listen is Beggars in Spain by Nancy Kress.

Wow, the author has certainly created an avenue for deep thinking here.

I’m kinda blown away.

120 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:51:25pm

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

I wouldn’t know. My family has been forbidden by my mother from watching Woody Allen movies ever since it came out he was sleeping with his own stepdaughter. She deemed him a sick freak for that and declared that none of us were to ever watch his movies again.

He is a sick freak, yet knowledge of his old movies seems to be a cultural necessity.

How old are you?

Besides, you can find a way to watch them without him making money by you doing so.

121 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:52:06pm

The ad at the top of this page is for Star Wars costumes.

122 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:52:12pm

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

I wouldn’t know. My family has been forbidden by my mother from watching Woody Allen movies ever since it came out he was sleeping with his own stepdaughter. She deemed him a sick freak for that and declared that none of us were to ever watch his movies again.

Lifestyles of the rich and famous

123 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:55:52pm

re: #120 FemNaziBitch

He is a sick freak, yet knowledge of his old movies seems to be a cultural necessity.

How old are you?

Besides, you can find a way to watch them without him making money by you doing so.

35. It’s just that I think she’s right about Allen.

124 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 7:57:20pm

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

I wouldn’t know. My family has been forbidden by my mother from watching Woody Allen movies ever since it came out he was sleeping with his own stepdaughter. She deemed him a sick freak for that and declared that none of us were to ever watch his movies again.

Sure was weird.

125 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:00:17pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

35. It’s just that I think she’s right about Allen.

She is, but you can’t ignore a body of work because you don’t like the moral character of the worker/creator.

You will be blinding yourself to a big part of the world.

People don’t like Marx, but to ignore his work is to keep yourself ignorant.

(DISCLAIMER) I am in no way making a moral equivalence to Allen and Marx. Just using the most blatant example I could come-up-with on short notice.

Perhaps Darwin would be a better example … .

126 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:01:16pm

re: #125 FemNaziBitch

She is, but you can’t ignore a body of work because you don’t like the moral character of the worker/creator.

You will be blinding yourself to a big part of the world.

People don’t like Marx, but to ignore his work is to keep yourself ignorant.

(DISCLAIMER) I am in no way making a moral equivalence to Allen and Marx. Just using the most blatant example I could come-up-with on short notice.

I give Woody Allen the side eye but still enjoy his work. Depends on my current mood.

127 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:02:55pm

re: #125 FemNaziBitch

She is, but you can’t ignore a body of work because you don’t like the moral character of the worker/creator.

You will be blinding yourself to a big part of the world.

People don’t like Marx, but to ignore his work is to keep yourself ignorant.

(DISCLAIMER) I am in no way making a moral equivalence to Allen and Marx. Just using the most blatant example I could come-up-with on short notice.

Not the same thing though. One has to read some Marx in order to understand Marxism, and one must understand Marxism if one seeks to fight it.

The other thing is that I didn’t like Woody Allen much as an actor even before I found out he was a dirtbag.

128 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:03:42pm

re: #126 Gus

I give Woody Allen the side eye but still enjoy his work. Depends on my current mood.

He had some memorable lines. I, of course, can’t remember the specific movie titles. There was one with Diane Keaton in a NYC cab on their first date in which he said “Your face is so beautiful, I can hardly keep my eye on the meter”

129 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:04:29pm

re: #127 Dark_Falcon

Not the same thing though. One has to read some Marx in order to understand Marxism, and one must understand Marxism if one seeks to fight it.

The other thing is that I didn’t like Woody Allen much as an actor even before I found out he was a dirtbag.

Ah, so you are making a personal decision, not an adult lock-step following Mom’s directive.

130 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:04:36pm

Firefighters Saves Cat from Raging Fire [Captured on Camera]

This kitty owes his life to a few firefighters from Ann Arbor, Michigan who braved against a raging house fire that was eating away the roof of an apartment complex, trying to get the kitty out to safety…

131 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:05:50pm

re: #128 FemNaziBitch

He had some memorable lines. I, of course, can’t remember the specific movie titles. There was one with Diane Keaton in a NYC cab on their first date in which he said “Your face is so beautiful, I can hardly keep my eye on the meter”

Googled…

Manhattan

“You look so beautiful, I can hardly keep my eyes on the meter.”

132 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:06:48pm
133 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:07:13pm
134 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:07:16pm

re: #131 Gus

Googled…

Manhattan

“You look so beautiful, I can hardly keep my eyes on the meter.”

It’s a good line.

135 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:07:50pm

Great movie on TCM starting right now. The Great Race.

136 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:08:06pm
137 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:09:55pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

Great movie on TCM starting right now. The Great Race.

The Great Race (1965)

138 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:10:47pm

Natalie Wood

I was watching the Actor’s Studio interview with Christopher Walken last night.

139 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:10:57pm

The radio right outdid itself today (from their shill and ally, Matt Drudge)

Hannity endorses secession

Levin can barely contain his fury (over non-existent gun control executive orders).

Michael Savage calls for a new “Nationalist” (for real) party since GOP isn’t conservative enough.

There can be no compromise with these insane freaks and their millions of disciples. There is going to be a showdown and there will be violence. Assault weapons are their Fort Sumter.

140 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:12:20pm

re: #137 Gus

The Great Race (1965)

Blake Edwards movie. Can’t go wrong with that.

141 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:12:52pm
142 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:13:14pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

Great movie on TCM starting right now. The Great Race.

THE SUFFRAGETTES!!!!

143 abolitionist  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:14:03pm

re: #114 FemNaziBitch

What Woody Allen Movie was it in which old Howard Cosell broadcasts were determined to be torture?

Sleeper.

144 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:15:26pm

re: #139 Shiplord Kirel

The radio right outdid itself today (from their shill and ally, Matt Drudge)

Hannity endorses secession

Levin can barely contain his fury (over non-existent gun control executive orders).

Michael Savage calls for a new “Nationalist” (for real) party since GOP isn’t conservative enough.

There can be no compromise with these insane freaks and their millions of disciples. There is going to be a showdown and there will be violence. Assault weapons are their Fort Sumter.

In my optimistic moments, I can believe these idiots are in the distinctly fringe minority. Obama was elected in a fairly routine electoral process, with no obvious shenanigans. Most people in the USA understand that, and are not going to falling in behind a bunch of secessionist crazies.

But in my pessimistic moments, I remember times in history when people did just that.

145 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:15:28pm

re: #142 FemNaziBitch

THE SUFFRAGETTES!!!!

The Pink Panther!

146 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:15:28pm

re: #139 Shiplord Kirel

The radio right outdid itself today (from their shill and ally, Matt Drudge)

Hannity endorses secession

Levin can barely contain his fury (over non-existent gun control executive orders).

Michael Savage calls for a new “Nationalist” (for real) party since GOP isn’t conservative enough.

There can be no compromise with these insane freaks and their millions of disciples. There is going to be a showdown and there will be violence. Assault weapons are their Fort Sumter.

So the Republican majority House is going to pass an AWB?

147 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:15:36pm

re: #139 Shiplord Kirel

The atavist-right/hate-right is slowly coming to their self actualization of who they truly are - and it’s not pretty.

148 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:17:46pm

re: #147 freetoken

The atavist-right/hate-right is slowly coming to their self actualization of who they truly are - and it’s not pretty.

Start building the arc! A flood is coming.

149 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:18:04pm

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

What I want to know is why the petition response assumed people were asking to build a Death Star to the original plans. It is universally acknowledged that the original design was flawed, and Emperor Palpatine had its designer eaten by piranha beetles as punishment (though the Emperor transferred Bevel Lemelisk’s life force into a cloned body to allows the skilled designer to continue to serve him).

But Lemelisk proved worthy of the cost of resurrecting him. His design for the 2nd Death Star was the subject of the petition. It has thousands of duel laser cannons to swat Rebel starfighters (MOAR GUNZ!), improved targeting to let it target capital ships, it has a faster and more efficient superlaser charging system (so its more energy efficient and overall greener that the first design, with its fusion power system the Death Star II design should earn LEADS Gold certification), and best of all it replaces the vulnerable thermal exhaust ports with thermal ventilation ducts that are only 5mm wide, making them impossible to get a shot into.

Note: The first two paragraph use materials from the Star Wars universe. The last paragraph is done in /wingnut to make sure it is clear that that paragraph (or anything in this post) is not be taken seriously.

I hear that every time Bevel Lemelisk failed he would be first killed, then cloned again, creating another person who looked just like him but arugeably with a slightly different personality….


Clearly Mitt Romney suffered a similar fate…

150 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:18:33pm

That tornado hit us, because, Muslims.

//

151 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:19:07pm

re: #90 Dark_Falcon

My job interview this morning panned out and I got the offer. So pending my signing the offer letter and going over the opportunity with a couple people, I’ll be back to work on Tuesday. So for me today was a Good Day.

What kind of company are you working in?

(Or too secret too talk about?)

152 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:19:08pm

re: #146 Gus

So the Republican majority House is going to pass an AWB?

No, they won’t. But people are worried about what Obama might try by executive order. Fears of a ‘national gun database’ are not appropriate, since at the NRA’s instigation the budget (including the CR) does not allow the ATF to spend money developing such a thing. The President cannot order a federal agency to spend money to do something Congress specifically has forbidden it to spend money on.

153 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:19:43pm

re: #151 jamesfirecat

What kind of company are you working in?

(Or too secret too talk about?)

I’ll tell you after I’ve formally taken the job.

154 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:21:11pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

No, they won’t. But people are worried about what Obama might try by executive order. Fears of a ‘national gun database’ are not appropriate, since at the NRA’s instigation the budget (including the CR) does not allow the ATF to spend money developing such a thing. The President cannot order a federal agency to spend money to do something Congress specifically has forbidden it to spend money on.

PBO won’t do an EO on an AWB.

155 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:24:06pm

re: #154 Gus

PBO won’t do an EO on an AWB.

I now have a bad case of AAP

(Acute Acronym Posioning)

156 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:24:44pm

re: #155 jamesfirecat

I now hqve a bad case of AAP

(Acute Acronym Posioning)

BAFC here.

157 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:25:17pm

In doing my current genealogy stuff I’m interacting with a religious-right subgroup of one side of my family. They are very sweet, but very, very religious.

My extended set of living relatives is quite a large collection (from long lines of large families) and includes just about anything. It’s sort of like cleaning out a closet which one has left to its own devices to collect “stuff” for years - you never know what you’re going to find.

158 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:25:30pm

re: #139 Shiplord Kirel

There can be no compromise with these insane freaks and their millions of disciples. There is going to be a showdown and there will be violence. Assault weapons are their Fort Sumter.

I keep trying to tell the gun owners I know who aren’t nuts that the NRA & these loons have no interest in them or their rights. All they want is gun company money.

Alas, more often than I care for it’s falling on deaf ears as, don’t you know, I’m a shill for the Brady Bunch.

I pray otherwise but in my heart I know you’re right. They are just so full of hate at having a black president that nothing else matters.

159 William of Orange  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:25:55pm

Is this from Onion??

160 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:34:31pm

re: #158 William Barnett-Lewis

I keep trying to tell the gun owners I know who aren’t nuts that the NRA & these loons have no interest in them or their rights. All they want is gun company money.

Alas, more often than I care for it’s falling on deaf ears as, don’t you know, I’m a shill for the Brady Bunch.

I pray otherwise but in my heart I know you’re right. They are just so full of hate at having a black president that nothing else matters.

This is what I tell them. Hubby came back from the last gun show stunned at the “sudden” increase in prices.

161 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:34:52pm
162 kirkspencer  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:37:12pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

No, they won’t. But people are worried about what Obama might try by executive order. Fears of a ‘national gun database’ are not appropriate, since at the NRA’s instigation the budget (including the CR) does not allow the ATF to spend money developing such a thing. The President cannot order a federal agency to spend money to do something Congress specifically has forbidden it to spend money on.

Point of interest. The ATF can’t, having been specifically told not to do so. The prohibition does not, however, extend to other departments and agencies. It’s probable that DoJ would be blocked for it, since BATF belongs to them. DHS (Homeland Security) on the other hand is relatively exempt, and has plenty of subordinate agencies for which such a database makes sense.

There’s also an outside chance for the Department of Commerce to maintain such a database.

There would, of course, be unhappiness. And a few quibbles of regulation and law would arise should the various agencies share their various databases (as required by other laws) with DoJ and BATF.

163 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:39:57pm

re: #131 Gus

Googled…

Manhattan

“You look so beautiful, I can hardly keep my eyes on the meter.”

That movie turned me onto this piece of music.

164 kirkspencer  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:41:47pm

PSA which if someone else mentioned I missed.

Department of Homeland Security recommends disabling Java (Java 7 update 10 or older) due to extremely high vulnerabilities. Announcement and a news article for reading.

165 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:42:02pm

OMG! does anyone really think Obama Administration is stupid enough to issue an executive order for gun confiscation?

IIRC, the man is an Attorney. A rather brilliant one. I think he is more than aware of what is possible under the law.

IIRC, he is more than cognizant of the personal security dangers such an action would cause him and the total freak-out the Secret Service would go thru.

I really, really, think he would ponder long and hard of the viability of such an order before issueing it.

Unless, of course, one buys into the Bat-Shit Whacko™ twisted thinking that Obama is the sekrit muslim anti-christ kenyan who wants to create real, honest-to-gosh civil war in this country.

Ya know, I’ve just not seen any evidence for that.

166 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:42:19pm

re: #162 kirkspencer

Point of interest. The ATF can’t, having been specifically told not to do so. The prohibition does not, however, extend to other departments and agencies. It’s probable that DoJ would be blocked for it, since BATF belongs to them. DHS (Homeland Security) on the other hand is relatively exempt, and has plenty of subordinate agencies for which such a database makes sense.

There’s also an outside chance for the Department of Commerce to maintain such a database.

There would, of course, be unhappiness. And a few quibbles of regulation and law would arise should the various agencies share their various databases (as required by other laws) with DoJ and BATF.

Not really, since only the ATF (and to a limited extent the FBI) has access to the required data and by statute both agencies are strictly limited in whom they can disclose such data to and for what purpose disclosure can be made. The disclosure rules are not part of a budget and would require an act of Congress to change them.

167 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:42:25pm

re: #164 kirkspencer

PSA which if someone else mentioned I missed.

Department of Homeland Security recommends disabling Java (Java 7 update 10 or older) due to extremely high vulnerabilities. Announcement and a news article for reading.

apple hates java

168 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:47:21pm

What a long strange trip since 9/11.

169 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:50:19pm

PBO is a fantastic CiC.

170 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:53:14pm

re: #163 Romantic Heretic

That movie turned me onto this piece of music.

[Embedded content]

You don’t live in Chicago do you?

I can’t find it on Youtube, but there was a fantastic commercial of the Bridges of the Chicgao River being raised on cue with the song “Chicago’s Home-Town Airline”. It would have been pre-1994.

171 kirkspencer  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:54:20pm

re: #166 Dark_Falcon

Not really, since only the ATF (and to a limited extent the FBI) has access to the required data and by statute both agencies are strictly limited in whom they can disclose such data to and for what purpose disclosure can be made. The disclosure rules are not part of a budget and would require an act of Congress to change them.

There is a legal and regulatory requirement for BATF/FBI to share data with certain agencies in the DHS umbrella (and vice versa) which can go around this. No changes beyond administrative adjustments would be required. These include but are not limited to Customs, Secret Service, and the NPPD.

172 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:54:39pm

re: #168 Gus

What a long strange trip since 9/11.

Now this could be the last of all the rides we take
So hold on tight and don’t look back
We don’t care about the message or the rules they make
I’ll find you when the sun goes black

MCR.

173 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:54:52pm

re: #122 wheat-dogghazi

Lifestyles of the rich and famous

The Aristocrats!

174 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:56:01pm

re: #170 FemNaziBitch

You don’t live in Chicago do you?

I can’t find it on Youtube, but there was a fantastic commercial of the Bridges of the Chicgao River being raised on cue with the song “Chicago’s Home-Town Airline”. It would have been pre-1994.

It was done for United Airlines. Another commercial done around 1995-96 used the same music but was set in Chicago’s Art Institute.

175 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:56:13pm

re: #163 Romantic Heretic

That movie turned me onto this piece of music.

[Embedded content]

Well, that’s one good thing then. One of the top ten 20th century compositions by anyone.

176 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:57:56pm

re: #171 kirkspencer

There is a legal and regulatory requirement for BATF/FBI to share data with certain agencies in the DHS umbrella (and vice versa) which can go around this. No changes beyond administrative adjustments would be required. These include but are not limited to Customs, Secret Service, and the NPPD.

Congress could sue, and might win, since such things are questionable. And even while such a case was pending, any such attempt at an end-run against the expressed wishes of the House would likely trigger a government shutdown, since a shutdown would stop such a project cold.

177 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 8:58:32pm

re: #175 William Barnett-Lewis

Well, that’s one good thing then. One of the top ten 20th century compositions by anyone.

The movie was good too!

American in Paris

178 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:00:26pm

re: #175 William Barnett-Lewis

Well, that’s one good thing then. One of the top ten 20th century compositions by anyone.

What a Wonderful World- Louis Armstrong too!

179 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:02:59pm

re: #168 Gus

What a long strange trip since 9/11.

What a long strange trip since sobriety.

180 Usually refered to as anyways  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:03:57pm

re: #176 Dark_Falcon

Congress could sue, and might win, since such things are questionable. And even while such a case was pending, any such attempt at an end-run against the expressed wishes of the House would likely trigger a government shutdown, since a shutdown would stop such a project cold.

That might be a good thing mid terms coming up and all.
Let the people see how Republicans feel about any regulation.

By the was congrats of the job offer.

181 abolitionist  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:04:23pm

re: #164 kirkspencer

PSA which if someone else mentioned I missed.

Department of Homeland Security recommends disabling Java (Java 7 update 10 or older) due to extremely high vulnerabilities. Announcement and a news article for reading.

Zero-Day Java Exploit Debuts in Crimeware
Excerpt:
Update, 11:46 a.m. ET: As several readers have noted, Java 7 Update 10 ships with a feature that makes it far simpler to unplug Java from the browser than in previous. Oracle’s instructions for using that feature are here, and the folks at DHS’s U.S.-CERT are now recommending this method as well.

This is a welcome alternative (short of uninstalling Java) especially for people who must use IE, or who don’t know not to.

182 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:05:34pm

re: #176 Dark_Falcon

Congress could sue, and might win, since such things are questionable. And even while such a case was pending, any such attempt at an end-run against the expressed wishes of the House would likely trigger a government shutdown, since a shutdown would stop such a project cold.

Oh, that would be good. Boner’s forgetten Newt’s mistake so totally and to that over this would magnify the disaster for the Republicans. They really don’t get they lost the election do they?

183 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:05:38pm

I’m off,

Have a great evening all!

184 Gus  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:07:35pm

Obama’s a fucking genius. re: #179 FemNaziBitch

What a long strange trip since sobriety.

Watching this.

185 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:18:08pm

re: #182 William Barnett-Lewis

Oh, that would be good. Boner’s forgetten Newt’s mistake so totally and to that over this would magnify the disaster for the Republicans. They really don’t get they lost the election do they?

They might get more support in this scenario, since the president would be pretty obviously trying to do an end run around the law.

186 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:23:30pm

re: #185 Dark_Falcon

They might get more support in this scenario, since the president would be pretty obviously trying to do an end run around the law.

Look at the poll numbers, DF. 20 caskets changed the game but Boner still hasn’t understood that. I wonder if he understands he will go down in history as the single most incompetent Speaker in US history?

187 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:28:30pm

re: #186 William Barnett-Lewis

Look at the poll numbers, DF. 20 caskets changed the game but Boner still hasn’t understood that. I wonder if he understands he will go down in history as the single most incompetent Speaker in US history?

I don’t agree with your analysis. My own move, were I advising John Boehner, would be to inform the president that should he attempt to use a non-DoJ federal department to establish a ‘gun database’ then the house will not vote any monies for that department. Other departments will still get budget bills passed, but that department will see its non-emergency functions shut down until the president ceases his attempt to circumvent the will of the Congress.

188 Lidane  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:28:32pm

re: #30 austin_blue

Please use the linky and view the entire response. Damn clever!

Agreed. That was funny and smart.

189 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:34:30pm

Ok, looking for something else at youtube (My Chemical Romance vids) and found this instead. Someone has read “Childhood’s End” by Clarke…

191 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:38:41pm

re: #157 freetoken

In doing my current genealogy stuff I’m interacting with a religious-right subgroup of one side of my family. They are very sweet, but very, very religious.

My extended set of living relatives is quite a large collection (from long lines of large families) and includes just about anything. It’s sort of like cleaning out a closet which one has left to its own devices to collect “stuff” for years - you never know what you’re going to find.

You may end up finding things they’d prefer not to acknowledge. Cross-checking marriage dates and first-borns’ birthdates is just a start.

192 Kragar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:40:19pm

Bachmann presidential campaign staffers still waiting to get paid

More than a year since their candidate dropped out of the Republican primary for the 2012 election, staffers from the campaign to elect Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) president say they are still waiting to get paid.

According to an article by Alex Seitz-Wald at Salon.com, Bachmann’s former national field coordinator, Peter Waldron claims that former employees of the campaign are being denied payment because they refused to sign a non-disclosure agreement that would bar them from discussing any “unethical, immoral, or criminal activity” they witnessed while working for the Minnesota representative.

Waldron went public with the claims on Thursday night in a blog post at ChristianNewsWire.com that said, in part, “Representative Michele Bachmann (R-MN), former presidential candidate and a leader of the Tea Party Caucus in the House of Representatives in Washington, has yet to pay some of her Iowa presidential campaign staff after one year and in spite of the fact that over $2,000,000 sits in bank accounts at her disposal.”

Personal responsibility!

193 engineer cat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:41:33pm

generally speaking, i don’t like the idea of federal national databases of anything

not to mention facebook, google, and amazon have way too much information on us already

194 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:42:30pm

re: #192 Kragar

Bachmann presidential campaign staffers still waiting to get paid

Personal responsibility!

Sounds like an opportunity for Gloria Allred to file an embarrassing lawsuit against Bachmann on behalf of those campaign workers. That would make her some money while showing the world who Michelle Bachmann really is.

195 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:43:39pm

re: #191 wheat-dogghazi

Oh, we already know we have that problem. One reason I’m doing this undertaking is exactly because one fourth of my ancestry is hidden from us, caused by a need for secrecy on the part of a generation that found itself at odds with a wild young woman whose pregnancy was forbidden.

196 Kragar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:47:42pm

I am now convinced that one of the secret ingredients in the Colonel’s chicken is responsible for making you need to crap like a sunovabitch.

197 Four More Tears  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:49:56pm

No one saw this coming. No one.

198 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:57:03pm

re: #197 Four More Tears

IMO the whole “doping” thing is silly. It’s an unnecessary sidetrack rising up from a need for nanny-ism and just the blatant pandering of the bottomless-pit of story-hungry gossip mongers.

While there is much more to be learned about the subject, we do know enough about genetics now to know that people are more or less genetically gifted for certain types of muscle development.

This means there never was a “level playing field.”

Given that, I say let professional adult athletes experiment with supplementing their inherited traits by whatever means is available to them.

199 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 9:59:11pm

re: #196 Kragar

I am now convinced that one of the secret ingredients in the Colonel’s chicken is responsible for making you need to crap like a sunovabitch.

Hmmm… I always thought the salmonella was a special order item?

200 sagehen  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:00:56pm

re: #198 freetoken

Given that, I say let professional adult athletes experiment with supplementing their inherited traits by whatever means is available to them.

No.

Some of what they’re experimenting with is dangerous, and a big part of amateur athletics (especially for the too-young-to-make-rational-decisions-themselves) is about emulating The Best and using them as a benchmark to compare onself against.

201 Shvaughn  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:01:57pm

re: #197 Four More Tears

No one saw this coming. No one.

[Embedded content]

I thought that said “Lance Armstrong plans to admit to doping Oprah.”

202 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:05:47pm

re: #195 freetoken

Oh, we already know we have that problem. One reason I’m doing this undertaking is exactly because one fourth of my ancestry is hidden from us, caused by a need for secrecy on the part of a generation that found itself at odds with a wild young woman whose pregnancy was forbidden.

I haven’t uncovered anything quite that dramatic in my research, but it’s clear that my grandpa had an affair with a younger woman — my grandmother — that precipitated the break with the first wife. My dad said his parents burned all the letters they had exchanged to keep the events secret from their two sons.

I probably know more now about the circumstances than my dad did.

203 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:13:49pm

Floral, Freetoken…
Chilly enough to go for those nice hot evening drinks. Hot chocolate and just might see 32 for a low tonight. About as cold as SoCal gets…

204 engineer cat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:14:21pm

re: #202 wheat-dogghazi

I haven’t uncovered anything quite that dramatic in my research, but it’s clear that my grandpa had an affair with a younger woman — my grandmother — that precipitated the break with the first wife. My dad said his parents burned all the letters they had exchanged to keep the events secret from their two sons.

I probably know more now about the circumstances than my dad did.

the story in our family is that my father’s father’s mother’s mother back in bogdaniew slept with a gentile polish farmer

that’s why i have green eyes

205 engineer cat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:16:23pm

re: #203 Political Atheist

Floral, Freetoken…
Chilly enough to go for those nice hot evening drinks. Hot chocolate and just might see 32 for a low tonight. About as cold as SoCal gets…

bay area @ 44 just now

i’m having a hot chocolate

206 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:19:14pm

re: #203 Political Atheist

Floral, Freetoken…
Chilly enough to go for those nice hot evening drinks. Hot chocolate and just might see 32 for a low tonight. About as cold as SoCal gets…

Right now it’s 42 degrees F & raining. Since it’s night some cooling will happen. I’d rather have SoCal than NorWI weather at this particular moment. Cold is fine, cool even (If you’ll pardon the expression) but freezing rain is the most evil weather I’ve had the misfortune of encountering…

207 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:21:16pm

re: #26 Varek Raith

Building a Star Destroyer though.
Image: trimaran1.jpg

Defend your 2nd Amendment rights to own your own ion cannon!
/

208 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:21:22pm

re: #204 engineer cat

the story in our family is that my father’s father’s mother’s mother back in bogdaniew slept with a gentile polish farmer

that’s why i have green eyes

My grandmother Vivalore’s nose tells me that somewhere in our family is at least one Native American. I do wish we knew where and when this honor was granted to my family.

209 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:25:29pm

re: #207 Feline Fearless Leader

I’ll take one of these for my gun…

Image: 5e-08-zorg-gun.jpg

210 SteveMcG  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:28:02pm

I have an aunt who is researching our family tree. She is convinced that my grandmother, (her mother) actually had 11 children instead of the ten we all know and love. This “child zero” wa raised by my grandmother’s sister. Needless to say, my other aunts and uncles are horrified by the insinuation.
I think it’s awesome. Grandmom was a hell of a woman and her reputation would be safe with anybody who knew her.

211 Kragar  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:28:06pm

re: #209 Political Atheist

I’ll take one of these for my gun…

Image: 5e-08-zorg-gun.jpg

Image: warhammer_40k_combi_bolter_by_clairegrube-d5fjeof.png

212 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:30:50pm

re: #114 FemNaziBitch

What Woody Allen Movie was it in which old Howard Cosell broadcasts were determined to be torture?

Sleeper

213 SteveMcG  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:31:24pm

This same aunt is really gung ho about her Irish heritage. She’s in some Hibernian Society. Problem is she’s really Irish in name only. Her grandparents are English, Irish, German and another German. She’s also about 3 generations removed from the nearest ancestor actually born in Europe.

214 ninja cat  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:34:10pm

We should be getting a front by the end of the week, expected low of 59. You can tell the natives by the way we’re breaking out the winter wear; the tourists are out at the beach.

215 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:35:40pm

re: #204 engineer cat

the story in our family is that my father’s father’s mother’s mother back in bogdaniew slept with a gentile polish farmer

that’s why i have green eyes

My uncle once commented that my mom’s side of the family had gypsy blood. When I researched her line in the parish records, there was in fact an out of wedlock birth and the father had lived in several different parishes (in Sweden) within as many years. Circumstantial evidence there.

Then I had my mitochondrial DNA tested last year. Turns out to be fairly common among the Roma of central Europe. Still circumstantial, but the pieces add up.

Mom’s family was all Swedes, but brown hair was fairly common among them.

216 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 10:38:07pm

re: #203 Political Atheist

Floral, Freetoken…
Chilly enough to go for those nice hot evening drinks. Hot chocolate and just might see 32 for a low tonight. About as cold as SoCal gets…

Rum toddies for all!
Charles too!

217 prairiefire  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:09:50pm

re: #215 wheat-dogghazi

Ya, there can be dark Swedes! Lena Olin, more, I’m sure. My Swedish ancestors migrated at the turn of the century to America for religious freedom, as they were Baptists, I think Anabaptists, in a strict Lutheran country.

What my Swedish granny taught me of what little she remembered:

Sunday dinner: “Toxi Mica, it Var so good! Inga tinga toca for!”

218 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:16:42pm

re: #203 Political Atheist


NWS has freeze warnings out for all but the beach areas. It will be (relatively) cold tonight for sure.

219 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:16:45pm

I find all y’alls lack of faith disturbing..

220 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:22:02pm

re: #217 prairiefire

Ya, there can be dark Swedes! Lena Olin, more, I’m sure. My Swedish ancestors migrated at the turn of the century to America for religious freedom, as they were Baptists, I think Anabaptists, in a strict Lutheran country.

What my Swedish granny taught me of what little she remembered:

Sunday dinner: “Toxi Mica, it Var so good! Inga tinga toca for!”

“Tack så mycket” is the actual way to spell it, but you got the phonetics down right. Maybe “det var så god” is next. Not sure about “inga tinga toca for”.

Yeah, my Swedish is pretty bad. All of my Swedish grandparents were dead by the time I was old enough to learn such stuff.

221 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:28:12pm

re: #215 wheat-dogghazi

Then I had my mitochondrial DNA tested last year. Turns out to be fairly common among the Roma of central Europe. Still circumstantial, but the pieces add up.

Unless you’re comparing maternal linkage between you and your mother, pretty much all mtDNA can be is “circumstantial”, and can only affirm a negative, as far as deep ancestry is concerned. That’s because it is limited to telling you only about the linkage of the log2(total number of ancestors) people in your ancestry.

In Europe it was not uncommon to marry off daughters to another group. So your particular line of mtDNA didn’t have to come from some recent illicit rendezvous, but could simply be from a deep ancestral pairing.

222 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:32:53pm

re: #221 freetoken

Well, I got that much. In fact, right now I have no matches with my mtDNA, so I’m just making wild guesses at this point. I’ve had more success matching my yDNA and with that, finally located the area where my paternal line originated (Devon, England). My paper trail ends in the colonial NJ period, so there was no clear point of origin until the DNA matching earlier this year.

As for marrying off daughters, the parish records state clearly the woman’s baby was “oäkta” (illegitimate), so there was no family planning involved, as it were.

223 freetoken  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:47:36pm

re: #222 wheat-dogghazi

As for marrying off daughters, the parish records state clearly the woman’s baby was “oäkta” (illegitimate), so there was no family planning involved, as it were.

So, you’re saying the father (or his relative) who belonged to the parish recorded the female baby as his but “illegitimate” by an outside female?

I have not had my mtDNA or yDNA tested, though I am going to go for the 23andMe SNP test. 23andMe says they will only get me the mtDNA group to a high level, not enough detail for relative testing, and likewise to the y-haplagroup but only at the coarse detail. For now that is fine with me, as I have a good genealogy on the yDNA line back several generations, and I have good provenance on the mtDNA line back to a great great great great great grandmother. In fact it is only that quarter of my mother’s ancestry that we know really well.

For those of us with ancestors who were here since colonial times, it is highly likely that we are all relatives by now, if only by marriage.

224 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jan 11, 2013 11:55:30pm

re: #223 freetoken

Almost right. It’s the mother who was the homegirl, and the father who was the roving Don Juan.

Shit. most of Western Europe is inter-related.

225 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:12:49am

“If you do pursue a career in a science, technology, engineering or math-related field, the Force will be with us! Remember, the Death Star’s power to destroy a planet, or even a whole star system, is insignificant next to the power of the Force.”

So Obama is not a Muslim after all, he’s a Jedi!!!

Point is, he ain’t Christian and he ain’t from this country!!!

226 freetoken  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:14:45am

re: #224 wheat-dogghazi

Since the mtDNA is only from the mother, then your mtDNA is then the “homegirl” mtDNA, and if this is then a mtDNA common with group known as the Roma, then the Roma-esque didn’t come from the roving male.

Chances are good that females were exchanged between groups deeper into the past.

227 freetoken  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:15:05am
228 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:26:28am

re: #226 freetoken

Yeah, that makes sense. I just realized the same thing as I was retelling the story. That Don Juan did not contribute the mtDNA. Duh.

The deep past stuff really interests me, especially since I’m a history buff. The origin of the R1b haplogroup seems to have been somewhere in central Asia about 16,000 years ago. R1b is especially common among men along the Western Atlantic states of Europe, so there was a lot of migration going on back then.

229 freetoken  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:07:52am

re: #228 wheat-dogghazi

R1b is very common in countries like the US where there has been dominant western European colonization.

I give about a 50% chance that I will come up in R1b, but given my immediate Scandinavian male line I could come up an I also.

Again, though, that will tell me only a little bit about my ancestral lines. Like the mtDNA line, they y-line can only tell about an increasingly small fraction of your intermediate depth ancestry.

I’m also trying to dig out some biographical data of all my ancestors here in the US.

230 freetoken  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:11:17am
231 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:35:03am

Interesting. R1b and I haplogroups were geographically close, but apparently not chronologically close, and both migrated west into Europe. Again, those migrations were probably several thousand years apart.

Image: Haplogroup_F_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

The yDNA tests have isolated at least four lines sharing my surname from Devon. It seems four different forebears chose the same (or similar) surnames around 1300. In my case, it means my family is not directly descended from a large, prominent colonial New England family, but comes from the same “neck of the woods” as that family in Devon, England.

232 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:53:39am

re: #198 freetoken

IMO the whole “doping” thing is silly. It’s an unnecessary sidetrack rising up from a need for nanny-ism and just the blatant pandering of the bottomless-pit of story-hungry gossip mongers.

While there is much more to be learned about the subject, we do know enough about genetics now to know that people are more or less genetically gifted for certain types of muscle development.

This means there never was a “level playing field.”

Given that, I say let professional adult athletes experiment with supplementing their inherited traits by whatever means is available to them.

You’re attacking nannyism? For that Ed Schultz is gonna take away your Liberal Card.

233 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:02:19am

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

The only way we are (or at east should be) “equal” is in how are rights are to be protected and defended, in the way we are allowed to develop our potential. We make a big mistake when we confuse “equal” with “identical”.

234 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:10:16am

re: #233 Sol Berdinowitz

The only way we are (or at east should be) “equal” is in how are rights are to be protected and defended, in the way we are allowed to develop our potential. We make a big mistake when we confuse “equal” with “identical”.

That’s true, though historically it is mostly right-of-center people making that point. I’d like them to get back to making points like that, too.

235 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:25:47am

I can understand why conservatives don’t like Obama at all, but it seems they should be at least proud of the fact that he got elected: it is proof of the American Dream.

A young half-black man, raised by a single mom and his middle-class grandparents who made it to become editor of the Harvard Law Review and then a Senator and then President through hard work and determination.

You have to be a real head-up-the-ass bigot not to see that is something worth being proud of.

236 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:31:02am

*sigh*

This is my state, y’all:

Dad poses as gunman to test school security, gets arrested

A Texas man is facing third-degree felony charges of making a terroristic threat after he allegedly told elementary school staffers he brought a gun to the building, NBCDFW.com reported.

Officials say Ronald Miller was unarmed Wednesday when he told a school greeter outside Celina Elementary School that he had a gun, according to NBCDFW.com. The town of Celina is just north of Dallas.

The greeter froze in panic when Miller said he was a gunman and his target was inside, Celina Independent School District Superintendent Donny O’Dell told NBCDFW.com. Miller was then able to walk into the school and entered the office.

“He told them that he is a shooter and ‘you’re dead, and you’re dead,’” O’Dell told NBCDFW.com. Never showing a weapon, Miller then reportedly revealed his stunt was a test of school safety and he wanted to talk to the principal.

School staffers knew Miller, who was a father of a student, and police were not called until he left the school, The Dallas Morning News reported. He was arrested Wednesday evening and is being held in lieu of $75,000 bail, the newspaper added.

237 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:46:21am

re: #236 Lidane

*sigh*

This is my state, y’all:

Dad poses as gunman to test school security, gets arrested

An idiot, but thankfully not a violent one. Were it up to me, I just have be publicly paddled.

238 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:53:53am

There are better ways to test school security…he also needs some sort of fine/sentence to discourage other idiots from trying the same thing.

239 Geoff with a G  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:53:55am

re: #236 Lidane

Was it Dwight Schrute?

240 Tigger2005  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:06:38am

Forget a Death Star, I want a Spaceball I that transforms into Mega-Maid.

241 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:06:51am

re: #239 geoffm33

Was it Dwight Schrute?

the incident was in the Lone Star State. Mr. Schrute lives and works in the Keystone State.

242 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:07:20am

re: #240 Tigger2005

Forget a Death Star, I want a Spaceball I that transforms into Mega-Maid.

You bedroom is that messy, huh?

243 Tigger2005  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:11:55am

re: #235 Sol Berdinowitz

I can understand why conservatives don’t like Obama at all, but it seems they should be at least proud of the fact that he got elected: it is proof of the American Dream.

A young half-black man, raised by a single mom and his middle-class grandparents who made it to become editor of the Harvard Law Review and then a Senator and then President through hard work and determination.

You have to be a real head-up-the-ass bigot not to see that is something worth being proud of.

I can’t understand why conservatives don’t like Obama at all, considering he’s almost as conservative as Reagan in many ways.

As for hard work and determination, I think they blame the mind control rays.

244 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:12:48am

re: #236 Lidane

If that had been a stand your ground law situation and someone at the school had been armed,this moron would most likely be dead now. Hell,without the stand your ground, a nervous or not properly trained gun owner might have killed his ass anyway. What a stupid thing to do.

245 Geoff with a G  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:19:13am

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

the incident was in the Lone Star State. Mr. Schrute lives and works in the Keystone State.

True. But I couldn’t help but read this in Dwight’s voice:

“He told them that he is a shooter and ‘you’re dead, and you’re dead,’”

246 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:20:16am

re: #236 Lidane

Well, he made his point, but he didn’t think his plan through too carefully. What did he expect, a medal of honor for showing he could have opened fire at any time?

And yeah, if someone (like an Ohio custodian) had been armed, Miller could have been the only victim.

I predict the charges will be dropped, or if they stick, he’ll get a light sentence.

247 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:21:30am

re: #243 Tigger2005

I can’t understand why conservatives don’t like Obama at all, considering he’s almost as conservative as Reagan in many ways.

As for hard work and determination, I think they blame the mind control rays.

“True Conservatism” comes with a serious litmus test these days: dismantle government agencies, ban abortion, restrict contraception, etc…, so that part of it is not hard.

And many of them simply claim that he was an Affirmative Action baby. Which I might even understand when it came to getting into law school, but not in becoming editor of the Harvard Law Review.

Conservatives should be glad to have the chance to say to any minority member that there are no longer any barriers to advancement to anone of any race or religion who is prepared to work hard.

But somehow, I don’t think that is a big priority with them.

248 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:44:29am

Mornin’ alliance rebels.

249 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:45:00am

re: #247 Sol Berdinowitz

“True Conservatism” comes with a serious litmus test these days: dismantle government agencies, ban abortion, restrict contraception, etc…, so that part of it is not hard.

And many of them simply claim that he was an Affirmative Action case. Which I might even understand when it came to getting into law school, but not in becoming editor of the Harvard Law Review.

Conservatives should be glad to have the chance to say to any minority member that there are no longer any barriers to advancement to anone of any race or religion who is prepared to work hard.

But somehow, I don’t think that is a big priority with them.

I’ve come to believe their anti-Obama fetish comes from being totally gobsmacked when he won in 2008. In their hearts of hearts, they were convinced there was no way the American public would vote a black guy into the White House, given the alternative of a former POW/longtime Senator and a Christian “soccer mom”. When he won, one leading reaction was and still is that Obama somehow rigged the election. Another reaction is the continuing efforts to deny he was even legally permitted to run, much less serve as president, because he’s not “really” an American.

It’s the same attitude that had people convinced that Romney was a shoo-in (even Romney believed that, it seems), despite all the polls indicating it was probably going to be a tight race, with Obama leading.

In other words, they were clueless then, and they’re still clueless now. Most of the American public now could give a rat’s ass whether the president is white or black. What he says and what he stands for are more important than his skin color or ethnic background.

250 freetoken  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:45:16am

re: #231 wheat-dogghazi

The yDNA tests have isolated at least four lines sharing my surname from Devon. It seems four different forebears chose the same (or similar) surnames around 1300. In my case, it means my family is not directly descended from a large, prominent colonial New England family, but comes from the same “neck of the woods” as that family in Devon, England.

Not uncommon I think. My surname is not unusual in England too, and variants of it are all over NW Europe. I know its history in my line back to the early 1600’s, and it’s spelling has been changed twice, each time a national border was crossed.

Back then, being a child of someone meant taking their first name somehow into your own, as a clan name. Even royalty were known by their first name, whether it was their birth name or one adopted when ascending a throne.

Migratory humans simply adopt their local culture and blend their childhood learnt culture with the new one. It’s always been that way. That’s why when I read xenophobes ranting about, say, Mexicans changing California by not adopting “American” customs I can only shake my head.

251 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:52:15am

re: #250 freetoken

Well, considering California used to belong to Mexico (or Spain), it is a pretty stupid thing to say.

252 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 6:58:29am

re: #251 wheat-dogghazi

Well, considering California used to belong to Mexico (or Spain), it is a pretty stupid thing to say.

Do not even try to explain to these people that there are parts of America where Spanish was spoken long before anybody started speaking English.

253 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:02:16am

re: #252 Sol Berdinowitz

Well, they’re probably the same people who thought English was Jesus of Nazareth’s first language.

254 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:03:31am

re: #253 wheat-dogghazi

Well, they’re probably the same people who thought English was Jesus of Nazareth’s first language.

I was just about to say that. I mean, he wrote the bible in English it makes sense that he could speak it.

255 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:04:21am

re: #254 darthstar

And not just Jesus. Moses, too! And all those other prophet guys.

256 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:05:33am

re: #255 wheat-dogghazi

And not just Jesus. Moses, too! And all those other prophet guys.

Well, they weren’t doing it for free.

257 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:07:16am

re: #256 darthstar

Must have got paid by the word, which would explain all those “begat” sections.

258 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:08:24am

re: #255 wheat-dogghazi

And not just Jesus. Moses, too! And all those other prophet guys.

Just imagine if Paul had the internet. In church, there’d be readings from “a tweet from Paul to the Corinthians”

…and b good 2 ur neighbors sayeth big G…kthxbai

259 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:13:35am

Geography question: Where was the garden of Eden? Most of the locations cited in the bible look like shit…dry, dusty…When god kicked them out, why’d Adam & Eve move to the desert?

260 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:16:59am

re: #248 darthstar

Mornin’ alliance rebels.

Speak for yourself. Diehard Imperial loyalist, here.

261 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:18:31am

re: #259 darthstar

I think it was one of those transdimensional openings. God opened the door and dropped them in the most godforsaken (as it were) place on Earth. No point in cursing them, then dropping them on some South Pacific island, after all.

262 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:19:17am

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

Speak for yourself. Diehard Imperial loyalist, here.

I’m sure the emperor will reward you in good time.

Mornin’.

263 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:22:28am

re: #259 darthstar

Geography question: Where was the garden of Eden? Most of the locations cited in the bible look like shit…dry, dusty…When god kicked them out, why’d Adam & Eve move to the desert?

Little known fact

Eve had grass allergies and Adam was an avid golfer!!! There’s some mighty fine courses in Arizona!!!

264 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:22:59am

re: #253 wheat-dogghazi

Well, they’re probably the same people who thought English was Jesus of Nazareth’s first language.

I rest my case:

“How I Know The King James Bible
is the Word of God”
-James L. Melton

265 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:25:20am

re: #249 wheat-dogghazi

In the case of 2008, I think its also how the fall campaign went down that shocked people. Occurring as it did alongside the fall of Lehman Brothers and the housing meltdown, it was profoundly influenced by those events. Once Lehman fell, Obama’s win really was inevitable, if only because McCain was of the same party as President Bush the Younger. The fact that it looked like McCain had clawed his way into a tie only to get dropped by the meltdown was a source of shock.

This shock was added to by McCain’s support for the TARP and the fact that Obama supported it as well. that left those who didn’t like big federal bailouts with no one in the campaign to speak for them. Feelings that they had been told by Washington DC “We are united in our belief that TARP needs to happen and swiftly, so we are ignoring your objections” fostered a profound anti-government sentiment in the conservative base that has yet to go away.

266 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:25:21am

re: #261 wheat-dogghazi

I think it was one of those transdimensional openings. God opened the door and dropped them in the most godforsaken (as it were) place on Earth. No point in cursing them, then dropping them on some South Pacific island, after all.

So he does have a space ship…probably a fucking Death Star…Doesn’t destroy planets with it but sometimes he likes to doodle with the laser.
Image: nazca-spider-nc-latinamericanstudies-350.gif

267 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:28:37am

re: #265 Dark_Falcon

This shock was added to by McCain’s support for the TARP and the fact that Obama supported it as well. that left those who didn’t like big federal bailouts with no one in the campaign to speak for them. Feelings that they had been told by Washington DC “We are united in our belief that TARP needs to happen and swiftly, so we are ignoring your objections” fostered a profound anti-government sentiment in the conservative base that has yet to go away

.


And this is the direct result of the GOP intentionally miseducating its voters for decades, teaching them that government expenditure is inherently wasteful, that it should always be opposed on knee-jerk principle. More recently, it’s the fault of the GOP embracing Ayn Rand economics, to the extent that you had the majority of the GOP base arguing against increasing spending during a recession.

268 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:29:03am

re: #265 Dark_Falcon

The smear campaign against Kerry worked wonderfully well in 2004, since Kerry was the kind of guy nobody really liked, even those who supported his politics and his party.

Obama had a sort of opposite effect, aside from a minority of rabid racists, a lot of people admired Obama as a nice guys, as someone who really did embody the American dream.

But since many of those mouth-breathers controlled policy making in the GOP, they did not think to change tactics. The smear tactcs bounced off him like the old rubber-and-glue analogy.

269 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:29:11am

re: #266 darthstar

So he does have a space ship…probably a fucking Death Star…Doesn’t destroy planets with it but sometimes he likes to doodle with the laser.
Image: nazca-spider-nc-latinamericanstudies-350.gif

I hate the assholes who drive across those things.

270 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:32:51am

re: #265 Dark_Falcon

McCain lost, in large part, because he picked a Honey Boo Boo of a running mate and that showed he couldn’t be trusted with ‘the football.’

271 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:33:35am

re: #268 Sol Berdinowitz

Right. The GOP leadership, such as it is, can’t learn any new tricks. They’re still thinking like it’s 1950.

272 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:35:10am

re: #270 darthstar

McCain lost, in large part, because he picked a Honey Boo Boo of a running mate and that showed he couldn’t be trusted with ‘the football.’

He did not really pick her, he had her foisted on him by the religious right who was threatening to bail on him and run their own candidate. His first choice, Joe Liebermann, was entirely unacceptable to them, mostly because he was of the wrong religion.

She might have worked if she had just kept her mouth shut, looked good and let herself be a blank canvas onto which potential voters could project their image of what an ideal candidate should be.

But they picked the wrong canvas.

273 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:35:23am

re: #270 darthstar

McCain lost, in large part, because he picked a Honey Boo Boo of a running mate and that showed he couldn’t be trusted with ‘the football.’

Honey Boo Boo might well be smarter than Caribou Barbie.

274 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:36:59am

re: #270 darthstar

McCain lost, in large part, because he picked a Honey Boo Boo of a running mate and that showed he couldn’t be trusted with ‘the football.’

Yes, this.

His first major decision as a potential POTUS and he picks a laughably unequipped, uneducated beauty queen as his VP in a blatant attempt to get bitter Hillary voters after the contentious Democratic primaries. It showed he wasn’t serious and it showed the GOP’s contempt for women voters. They assumed that they could pick anyone with lady parts and get women to show up for them at the polls.

Once Tina Fey got a hold of Sarah Palin and skewed her using Palin’s own words, it was all over.

275 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:40:05am

re: #270 darthstar

McCain lost, in large part, because he picked a Honey Boo Boo of a running mate and that showed he couldn’t be trusted with ‘the football.’

McCain had the same situation as Romney did, namely he was the compromise candidate that the loons in the base refused to outright support and were threatening to go third party if he did nothing to appease them.

276 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:40:38am

re: #274 Lidane

I haven’t seen much in the media about Palin. Has she finally shut up?

277 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:43:19am

re: #276 wheat-dogghazi

I haven’t seen much in the media about Palin. Has she finally shut up?

No, Fox just cut back on their coverage of her because of the election embarrassment.

278 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:52:13am

*pokes thread with a stick*

279 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:52:56am

re: #268 Sol Berdinowitz

The smear campaign against Kerry worked wonderfully well in 2004, since Kerry was the kind of guy nobody really liked, even those who supported his politics and his party.

Obama had a sort of opposite effect, aside from a minority of rabid racists, a lot of people admired Obama as a nice guys, as someone who really did embody the American dream.

But since many of those mouth-breathers controlled policy making in the GOP, they did not think to change tactics. The smear tactcs bounced off him like the old rubber-and-glue analogy.

Kerry did get tarred, but he’d earned some of the tar since his actions after he got home from Vietnam were problematic. And to bring in an analogy to Les Miserables (one I actually made back in 2004), John O’Neill made an excellent Javert, having been hostile to Kerry for decades but still appearing calm and collected in public. I saw O’Neill speak in October of that year and he had none of the panicky shrillness that characterizes so many Birthers. He came across a veteran who had felt slandered and had set out to redress the record. That wasn’t wholly true, I now know, but it was how he presented himself.

Kerry also had some notable gaffes, such as his hunting trip (which only made him look clueless and out of touch) and his campaign assumed far too much about how it thought the election would go down, which allowed Kerry to be blind to the power of Karl Rove’s turnout machine.

Barack Obama, by contrast, assumed less than Kerry in both 2008 and 2012 and worked hard on nailing down his win. Obama is also able to interact with the public on their level and present himself as one of them, which neither Kerry nor his fellow rich guy from Massachusetts Mitt Romney were able to do. Obama also benefited from having a much lower caliber of accuser, with the calm-but aggrieved-seeming O’Neill being replaced by the hysterical and clueless Orly Taitz.

280 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:58:11am

re: #265 Dark_Falcon

McCain lost, in large part, because he picked a Honey Boo Boo of a running mate and that showed he couldn’t be trusted with ‘the football.’

281 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:59:46am

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

That wasn’t wholly true, I now know, but it was how he presented himself.

What part of it was true?

282 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:00:57am

re: #280 darthstar

McCain lost, in large part, because he picked a Honey Boo Boo of a running mate and that showed he couldn’t be trusted with ‘the football.’

Whoa…double post with delay. My machine was all hung up and reposted on reboot. Weird.

283 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:02:54am

re: #281 Obdicut

What part of it was true?

That Kerry had slandered America’s military following his return from Vietnam. What weren’t true were O’Neill’s claims that Kerry had been a coward and a failure while he was in the Navy; That part was a lie. Why O’Neill told that lie is not a question I can answer.

284 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:03:56am

re: #282 darthstar

Whoa…double post with delay. My machine was all hung up and reposted on reboot. Weird.

I’ve had that happen to me as well, so I think its a software problem. Do you use Firefox?

285 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:04:58am

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

That Kerry had slandered America’s military following his return from Vietnam. What weren’t true were O’Neill’s claims that Kerry had been a coward and a failure while he was in the Navy; That part was a lie. Why O’Neill told that lie is not a question I can answer.

He was there. He has the purple hearts to prove it. And that gives a person the right to criticize things they saw first hand. That’s not ‘slander’…

286 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:06:28am

re: #284 Dark_Falcon

I’ve had that happen to me as well, so I think its a software problem. Do you use Firefox?

Firefox on Ubuntu 12.04 on my HP Mini…about to throw this baby into upgrade mode and move it to 12.10. 12.04 keeps getting OS errors.

287 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:09:41am

re: #285 darthstar

He was there. He has the purple hearts to prove it. And that gives a person the right to criticize things they saw first hand. That’s not ‘slander’…

He came across as a liberal elitist, which he was to a great extent. That attempt did not stick to Obama at all.

288 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:09:55am

re: #286 darthstar

Firefox on Ubuntu 12.04 on my HP Mini…about to throw this baby into upgrade mode and move it to 12.10. 12.04 keeps getting OS errors.

I’m having major mouse issues with 12.10 so you might just want to run the updater and see if there’s a new kernel &/or other fixes available for 12.04 first.

Oh, and Chrome is vastly better than Firefox.

289 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:10:19am

re: #285 darthstar

He was there. He has the purple hearts to prove it. And that gives a person the right to criticize things they saw first hand. That’s not ‘slander’…

But he didn’t see the atrocities he said had happened. He wasn’t claiming to be an eyewitness.

290 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:13:20am
291 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:14:24am

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

That Kerry had slandered America’s military following his return from Vietnam.

What did Kerry say that was slanderous?

What weren’t true were O’Neill’s claims that Kerry had been a coward and a failure while he was in the Navy; That part was a lie. Why O’Neill told that lie is not a question I can answer.

That was the main thing, though. The main thing was the charge of cowardice and sham medals, which led to the disgusting, unforgivable trivialization of the purple heart by the GOP. And it’s rather clear that the reason for the lie was to sell books, make money, and smear a candidate whose ideals he hated.


Do you feel any level of shame about the purple heart thing, about how your party embraced mocking a military decoration?

292 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:14:39am

re: #288 William Barnett-Lewis

I’m having major mouse issues with 12.10 so you might just want to run the updater and see if there’s a new kernel &/or other fixes available for 12.04 first.

Oh, and Chrome is vastly better than Firefox.

Yeah…need to move to Chrome. I had it on my macbook and liked it well enough. Downloading 266 updates for 12.04 now. Have 12.10 on my Dell and it’s fine. I just want this little Netbook to be stable.

293 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:15:43am

According to conservatives when military veterans speak out the phrase “he earned that right” only applies when that military veteran is speaking out on the right wing side of things. Thus, conservatives don’t see Kerry as having “earned that right.”

294 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:20:31am

re: #293 Gus

Even freaking Al Gore actually went to Vietnam.

295 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:22:39am

re: #288 wlewisiii

I’m having major mouse issues with 12.10 so you might just want to run the updater and see if there’s a new kernel &/or other fixes available for 12.04 first.

Oh, and Chrome is vastly better than Firefox.

Heh…and just after I replied my mouse froze on my netbook…switched to the Dell so I don’t interrupt the updates.

Try running synclient -l (lower case L) to see your mouse settings. Then you can turn things on like two finger scroll by typing synclient VertTwoFingerScroll=1, etc.

296 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:23:15am

re: #294 Obdicut

Even freaking Al Gore actually went to Vietnam.

Meanwhile Norm Coleman was probably agreeing with the Winter Solder version of John Kerry. Protesting against the Viet Nam war. Romney was of course protesting against the Viet Nam war protesters and high tailed it to France.

297 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:26:05am

re: #291 Obdicut

What did Kerry say that was slanderous?

That was the main thing, though. The main thing was the charge of cowardice and sham medals, which led to the disgusting, unforgivable trivialization of the purple heart by the GOP. And it’s rather clear that the reason for the lie was to sell books, make money, and smear a candidate whose ideals he hated.

Do you feel any level of shame about the purple heart thing, about how your party embraced mocking a military decoration?

Shame, no. I was wrong about Kerry, though.

298 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:27:08am

re: #295 darthstar

Heh…and just after I replied my mouse froze on my netbook…switched to the Dell so I don’t interrupt the updates.

Try running synclient -l (lower case L) to see your mouse settings. Then you can turn things on like two finger scroll by typing synclient VertTwoFingerScroll=1, etc.

No synaptic driver loaded on my antique because I had to shift to a PS/2 mouse and reboot. My trackpad would either not click or the left click would stay on.

299 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:29:41am

Viet Nam finally “fell” and we didn’t see the dominoes fall. In fact it morphed into a rather successful communist-capitalist hybrid. Currently having stalled economically. I would venture to say that Viet Nam is in better shape today then it would have been if it was left split like Korea divided between North Korea and South Korea. A “North Viet Nam” and “South Viet Nam” would have been worse for the Vietnamese people in the end. It is in far better shape today as one contiguous nation.

300 recusancy  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:31:12am

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

Of course you don’t feel shame

301 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:31:50am

re: #299 Gus

It is in far better shape today as one contiguous nation.

There are people who don’t feel that way about the United States right now…unfortunately.

302 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:35:40am
303 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:36:31am

re: #299 Gus

Viet Nam finally “fell” and we didn’t see the dominoes fall. In fact it morphed into a rather successful communist-capitalist hybrid. Currently having stalled economically. I would venture to say that Viet Nam is in better shape today then it would have been if it was left split like Korea divided between North Korea and South Korea. A “North Viet Nam” and “South Viet Nam” would have been worse for the Vietnamese people in the end. It is in far better shape today as one contiguous nation.

The dominoes did fall, though. 1975 saw Cambodia and Laos both fall to Communism as well. Thailand avoided that fate, but that was thanks to its government being somewhat less brutal and far more functional.

304 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:38:06am

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

Shame, no. I was wrong about Kerry, though.

It’s weird to me, because you have such a strong connection with ‘conservatism’ and with the GOP, and yet it seems like you take pride in some things they do or stands they take, but you rarely exhibit any shame in things they do. It’s a little unbalanced.

305 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:39:59am

re: #303 Dark_Falcon

Cambodia has been slowly climbing its way into a functional nation. Laos is still beset by internal strife. My friends were planning a tour of those countries, plus Thailand and Vietnam, but scotched the Laos trip. Too many travel advisories.

306 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:41:08am

re: #303 Dark_Falcon

The dominoes did fall, though. 1975 saw Cambodia and Laos both fall to Communism as well. Thailand avoided that fate, but that was thanks to its government being somewhat less brutal and far more functional.

Still not a doomsday scenario of dominoes falling.

307 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:42:32am

re: #304 Obdicut

It’s weird to me, because you have such a strong connection with ‘conservatism’ and with the GOP, and yet it seems like you take pride in some things they do or stands they take, but you rarely exhibit any shame in things they do. It’s a little unbalanced.

I have other things I’m ashamed about, Obdi. I don’t have the time to feel shame about politics.

308 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:45:39am

re: #307 Dark_Falcon

I have other things I’m ashamed about, Obdi. I don’t have the time to feel shame about politics.

You’re missing the point, though. If you feel pride in an area, but you don’t let yourself feel shame about things in that same area, you’re letting yourself off way too easy. It’s not consistent or, really, honest.

309 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:46:59am

re: #307 Dark_Falcon

I have other things I’m ashamed about, Obdi. I don’t have the time to feel shame about politics.

You’ll find a girl who will understand.

310 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:47:39am

Anyway. The war is over.

311 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:48:23am

re: #308 Obdicut

You’re missing the point, though. If you feel pride in an area, but you don’t let yourself feel shame about things in that same area, you’re letting yourself off way too easy. It’s not consistent or, really, honest.

How I feel is how I feel. I’m don’t have to try to justify it, and I’m not going to do so either.

312 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:49:44am

re: #198 freetoken

IMO the whole “doping” thing is silly. It’s an unnecessary sidetrack rising up from a need for nanny-ism and just the blatant pandering of the bottomless-pit of story-hungry gossip mongers.

While there is much more to be learned about the subject, we do know enough about genetics now to know that people are more or less genetically gifted for certain types of muscle development.

This means there never was a “level playing field.”

Given that, I say let professional adult athletes experiment with supplementing their inherited traits by whatever means is available to them.

Which means one day we’ll be having Juicers and Crazies competing in sports. Fun!

313 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:52:33am

re: #310 Gus

Anyway. The war is over.

And it is almost universally agreed that it was a bad idea, a waste of American lives, money and reputation.

314 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:53:43am

Someone’s looking for attention.

315 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:54:43am

re: #302 Gus

[Link: twitter.com…]

What a loss.

316 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:55:18am

re: #310 Gus

Anyway. The war is over.

War…war never changes.

317 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:00:09am

re: #314 Gus

Someone’s looking for attention.

[Embedded content]

DERPy conspiracist is DERPy. More tonight at 6.

318 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:01:25am

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

Why O’Neill told that lie is not a question I can answer.

Because the default opinion for many ‘conservatives’ is that ‘liberals’ are cowards who hate the U.S. and the U.S. military even more. O’Neill believes that and the people he was speaking to believed it too.

319 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:02:00am

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

DERPy conspiracist is DERPy. More tonight at 6.

Seriously. Don’t want to even consider what he thinks. Just more anecdotal flapdoodle only this time from this frequently unstable twit.

320 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:02:59am

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

How I feel is how I feel. I’m don’t have to try to justify it, and I’m not going to do so either.

I’m saying you could improve by a person by having a look at that disparity.

321 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:05:10am

re: #316 Targetpractice

War…war never changes.

War is a series of catastrophes followed by victory. - Georges Clemenceau.

322 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:06:11am

re: #314 Gus

Someone’s looking for attention.

[Embedded content]

Very convincing’ evidence

Translation

I had lunch with Oliver Stone last week!!
/

323 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:06:23am

re: #318 Romantic Heretic

Because the default opinion for many ‘conservatives’ is that ‘liberals’ are cowards who hate the U.S. and the U.S. military even more. O’Neill believes that and the people he was speaking to believed it too.

I decided not to answer that question for the reason that figuring out the motivations of others is fairly tricky and because O’Neill went after Kerry long before Kerry was even a senator. So some of his motive might be personal, but I just don’t know so I decline to speculate about that which I cannot fully get all the facts.

324 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:09:13am

re: #322 sattv4u2

Translation

I had lunch with Oliver Stone last week!!
/

Oddly enough I was listening to some old news reels of Marina Oswald Porter yesterday. Forgot how I wound up there. She’s a strange one. You know, these people are free to make up their conspiracy theories but I only ask of one thing. Prove it. Don’t give me words and anecdotal evidence. I’m not interested in “spaghetti” evidence.

325 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:10:45am

The Warren Report was a heap of shit, but that does not mean that any other explanation of the events is any more valid

326 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:11:57am
327 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:14:00am

re: #326 Gus

Misleading.
Ohio School Board votes to arm school janitors

Kids will think twice about spitting out gum on the floors,,,

328 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:15:01am

The Montpelier Exempted Village Schools Board of Education in Montelier, Ohio voted unanimously on Wednesday night to allow handgun training for four custodians, who will then tote firearms on the school’s campus.

Oops. They misspelled it the second time. The misleading aspect is the headline will make it look like the entire state of Ohio rather than one school district in a town with a population of 4,072.

329 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:17:52am

re: #328 Gus

The Montpelier Exempted Village Schools Board of Education in Montelier, Ohio voted unanimously on Wednesday night to allow handgun training for four custodians, who will then tote firearms on the school’s campus.

Oops. They misspelled it the second time. The misleading aspect is the headline will make it look like the entire state of Ohio rather than one school district in a town with a population of 4,072.

Yes, because headlines leave out articles and conjunctions that produce clarity. “One Putzy Schoolboard out in Bumf*ck Rural Ohio Votes to Arm Janitors” would have been more accurate…

330 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:18:28am

re: #329 Sol Berdinowitz

Yes, becasue headlines leav out articles and conjunction that produce clarity. “One Putzy Schoolboard out in Bumf*ck Rural Ohio Votes to Arm Janitors” would have been more accurate…

I am outraged myself. I feel like crying. I trembling! The gun nuts have taken over!!11ty

//

331 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:19:24am

re: #329 Sol Berdinowitz

Yes, becasue headlines leav out articles and conjunction that produce clarity. “One Putzy Schoolboard out in Bumf*ck Rural Ohio Votes to Arm Janitors” would have been more accurate…

Or “votes to arm janitor.”

332 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:20:23am

I swear, I just went to the board to ask for a new mop.

333 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:21:00am

re: #329 Sol Berdinowitz

Yes, becasue headlines leav out articles and conjunction that produce clarity. “One Putzy Schoolboard out in Bumf*ck Rural Ohio Votes to Arm Janitors” would have been more accurate…

Here’s the actual resolution from the school board:

Approved a resolution authorizing certain individuals to carry concealed firearms on school premises pursuant to O.R.C. § 2923.122

It doesn’t specify janitors but rather “certain individuals.” More specifically they would allow those “not in direct contact” with students. That would not include teachers. It could however include janitors. The “janitor” angle will attract more page hits.

334 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:29:52am

Okay…beach time for the dogs. BBL

335 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:30:08am

re: #331 darthstar

Or “votes to arm janitor.”

Hard to mop the floor and throw down that green absorbent stuff they put on puke without arms!

336 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:32:25am

Will the janitors be approved for single shot mops or those newfangled (and infinitely more dangerous) Swiffers?

337 TedStriker  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:34:00am

re: #59 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards!

I got a call from a lender in Nashville today. I might get back in the mortgage biz again :)

Congrats….it’s pretty good down here.

338 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:35:11am

re: #337 TedStriker

Congrats….it’s pretty good down here.

Well of course it is

Elvis keeps buying houses trying to stay one step ahead of the paparazzi!!!
//

339 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:35:32am

Arm them with assault mops and semiautomatic floor buffers?

340 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:37:04am

re: #339 Sol Berdinowitz

Arm them with assault mops and semiautomatic floor buffers?

I still say that green puke absorbent stuff is deadly enough!

341 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:39:24am

Because -> Janitors.

It’s all starting to make sense now.

342 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:40:49am

re: #341 Kronocide

Because -> Janitors.

It’s all starting to make sense now.

FREEZE!!!

[Link: 1.bp.blogspot.com…][no phone numbers allowed].jpg

343 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:41:15am
344 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:43:36am

Here’s some actual nanny-state stupidity:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

ERs in NYC are going to be restricting painkillers given out at the ER massively. What seems like a “Well, that’s sensible” quickly turns into idiocy. If someone breaks an ankle, they’re going to need more than a 3-day script. If they don’t already have a primary care physician, no fucking way that they get an appointment with the doc within three days. There’s all kinds of shit like this, where thanks to the long waiting times we have for primary care doctors and the large numbers of uninsured this is going to punish a lot of suffering people.

Stupid fucking idea, stupid Bloomberg, stop trying to legislate good medical practice.

345 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:43:53am

re: #343 Gus

Iraq had a large Christian population until we toppled their dictatorship…you can’t have it all, especially in that part of the world.

346 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:44:50am

re: #345 Sol Berdinowitz

Iraq had a large Christian population until we toppled their dictatorship…you can’t have it all, especially in that part of the world.

Heh.

347 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:45:09am

re: #344 Obdicut

Can’t they just llike take a chicken down to the local country doctor?

348 sagehen  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:47:45am

re: #259 darthstar

Geography question: Where was the garden of Eden? Most of the locations cited in the bible look like shit…dry, dusty…When god kicked them out, why’d Adam & Eve move to the desert?

Most people figure Mesopotamia.

And a lot of those very dry dusty desert areas… weren’t so desert-y 3000 years ago. Even the Sahara used to have some degree of agriculture, before people used it up.

349 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:48:53am

That Tweet was brought to my attention because it was retweeted by Mona Eltahawy. It happened in Egypt and not Iraq. Translation of story here.

350 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:52:25am

re: #348 sagehen

I read about what a great place that used to be: perfect climate, lush vegetation, and great herds of animals that would try to cross the rivers and wash downstream…you didn’t even have to hunt

351 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:00:18am

re: #344 Obdicut

Here’s some actual nanny-state stupidity:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

ERs in NYC are going to be restricting painkillers given out at the ER massively. What seems like a “Well, that’s sensible” quickly turns into idiocy. If someone breaks an ankle, they’re going to need more than a 3-day script. If they don’t already have a primary care physician, no fucking way that they get an appointment with the doc within three days. There’s all kinds of shit like this, where thanks to the long waiting times we have for primary care doctors and the large numbers of uninsured this is going to punish a lot of suffering people.

Stupid fucking idea, stupid Bloomberg, stop trying to legislate good medical practice.

This is what Bloomberg does: Tries to regulate other people’s lives, convinced he knows whats best for them. Whatever good he thinks he does is undermined by the damage he does to Democrats (since he identified with the left) nationwide. Michael Bloomberg helps Republicans by providing legitimate examples of overweening, intrusive government.

352 The Mountain That Blogs  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:01:08am

re: #344 Obdicut

Yes, drug seekers getting Percocet from the ER (and when they get it, going to another ER) is a big issue, but as you pointed out sometimes people need it. Besides, I’ve seen good doctors shoot those guys down—being able to pick out actually sick people is probably the most important skill an ER doc needs. That’s not the worst part of this though.

At the same time as this is happening, they are also tying physician compensation to quality of care, which sounds like a good thing, but a couple of those indicators of quality are readmission rates (and revisit rates for ERs) and patient satisfaction. Well, then the hospital (and by extension, the doctor) doesn’t get paid for the second visit three days later when the pain meds run out because the patient couldn’t get an appointment and the doctor wasn’t allowed to give them more than three days worth.

As for patient satisfaction, setting aside the part where in the ER that is usually synonymous with “getting lots of Percocet”, the most satisfied patients are the ones who get what they want, which isn’t necessarily the best medicine. The most satisfied patients also have the highest costs, the most admissions, and, the real kicker, higher mortality.

Plus, I don’t like politicians telling me how to do my job.

353 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:01:25am

re: #350 Sol Berdinowitz

I read about what a great place that used to be: perfect climate, lush vegetation, and great herds of animals that would try to cross the rivers and wash downstream…you didn’t even have to hunt

As the late great Yogi Berra said

“Nobody goes there anymore; it’s too crowded.”

354 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:02:37am

re: #349 Gus

That Tweet was brought to my attention because it was retweeted by Mona Eltahawy. It happened in Egypt and not Iraq. Translation of story here.

That’s a really bad translation. ‘Zero Wing’ level bad.

355 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:03:22am

re: #354 Dark_Falcon

That’s a really bad translation. ‘Zero Wing’ level bad.

It’s from Arabic. If you can find one better let me know.

356 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:04:08am

re: #355 Gus

It’s from Arabic. If you can find one better let me know.

I think I found a better one. But it’s in Arabic, so I’m not sure.

357 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:06:00am

Heh.

358 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:07:24am

Speaking of linguistics: working on a project with an older Filipino housekeeper with really bad English. Have known her for years but it’s still a struggle. She asked me yesterday if I’ve seen a guy we all know, from Texas or ‘the South.’

She tried to mimic him talking in with a Southern drawl.

Made my weekend.

359 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:09:05am

Heh.

360 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:11:14am

re: #357 Gus

Heh.

[Embedded content]

For appearances-sake, there’s no way that these companies are gonna tone down the violence when the violence sells. Games like Call of Duty, which sell millions of units on release day, are not gonna get pulled from the shelves.

361 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:13:08am

re: #359 Gus

Heh.

Tarantino gives the @NRA ammo salon.com

If the Bible can be a science gook, and “24” can be a foreign policy guidebook, why can’t a Tarantino film be a history book?

It scares me how much attention we pay to pop culture while ignoring basic knowledge.

362 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:15:04am

re: #360 Targetpractice

For appearances-sake, there’s no way that these companies are gonna tone down the violence when the violence sells. Games like Call of Duty, which sell millions of units on release day, are not gonna get pulled from the shelves.

Yes, some people will see that in the same way as the gun rights people see the talk of gun control as gun grabbing or taking guns of the shelf. When Obama said that everyone has to bring something to the table he meant it.

363 mastertabes  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:15:08am

Hello fellow lizards! First time poster, glad to meet all of you.

364 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:15:40am

re: #361 Sol Berdinowitz

If the Bible can be a science gook, and “24” can be a foreign policy guidebook, why can’t a Tarantino film be a history book?

It scares me how much attention we pay to pop culture while ignoring basic knowledge.

Yes. Because entertainment is off the table unless it’s Zero Dark Thirty. Then we can be critical.

365 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:16:35am

re: #363 mastertabes

Hello fellow lizards! First time poster, glad to meet all of you.

Did you bring snacks?

366 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:16:43am

re: #363 mastertabes

Hello fellow lizards! First time poster, glad to meet all of you.

Welcome hatchling.

367 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:16:55am

We need to have a dialogue only your dialogue is not allowed.

//

368 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:17:10am

Liberals cause gun sale increases = those who cry racist are the real racists = Tarantino!

369 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:17:14am

re: #366 Feline Fearless Leader

Welcome hatchling.


Registered since: Nov 28, 2012 at 2:47 pm

Took awhile to muster the 1st post!!

370 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:17:31am

re: #367 Gus

We need to have a dialogue only your dialogue is not allowed.

//

We’ll compromise and do exactly and only what I want.
//

371 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:17:46am

re: #368 Kronocide

Liberals cause gun sale increases = those who cry racist are the real racists = Tarantino!

Did you even go to the link?

372 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:18:10am

Dialogue = I dial, you log.

373 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:19:02am

re: #371 Gus

Did you even go to the link?

Yes, I read the whole thing. I’m in a noisy environment so I’ll watch the interview later.

374 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:19:51am

re: #362 Gus

Yes, some people will see that in the same way as the gun rights people see the talk of gun control as gun grabbing or taking guns of the shelf. When Obama said that everyone has to bring something to the table he meant it.

At the same time, they have a pretty good point, what’s the point of policing violence in their games if the people selling these games and the end-users do nothing to keep them away from kids?

375 Gus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:19:53am

re: #370 Feline Fearless Leader

We’ll compromise and do exactly and only what I want.
//

I’m a free thinker but I already have an answer that agrees with my group.

//

376 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:21:36am

re: #359 Gus

As the nettled Tarantino himself said, “I’m here to sell my movie. This is a commercial for the movie, make no mistake.”

That moment of hip-hop-style candor might almost have been refreshing. But it was a whole lot less refreshing to see Tarantino acting so aggrieved about a journalist daring to ask him real questions, and it was downright shocking to see how unprepared he was to tackle an issue he’s had 20-odd years of writing and directing violent films to think about.

That is a good point.

377 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:22:17am

re: #375 Gus

I’m a free thinker but I already have an answer that agrees with my group.

//

All real Groupies agree with the answer. The others are fake ones trying to destroy America.
//

378 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:27:42am

re: #376 jaunte

That is a good point.

It was a good point.

Tarantino has hopefully thought about it. But what sort of answer is he going to give?
If he says “Yes” - he’s not helping world culture and is simply a hypocritical profiteer.
If he says “No” - there are probably calls that he’s an ignorant idiot not understanding (or very callous) about the issue.
If he goes between, or tries to be nuanced, he gets called indecisive. And also probably gets further sucked into a conversation he is not prepared to have then and there.

I think he is very image conscious about how he and his movies are presented and sold. And probably a bit of a control freak. So, if anything, part of that was his desire to keep the interview within the bounds and issues he wanted to talk about - and thus essentially under his control.

379 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:29:50am

re: #378 Feline Fearless Leader

I don’t know; if I was in his position after 20 years of writing and directing, I think I would have some settled ideas about it, and been prepared to take on the topic. Especially now.

380 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:32:02am

Tarantino is a convenient scapegoat for the gun nuts. Now that he’s released Django he’s a racist too, to add to being liberal and contributing to the decay of America because he makes violent movies.

381 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:32:22am

re: #379 jaunte

I don’t know; if I was in his position after 20 years of writing and directing, I think I would have some settled ideas about it, and been prepared to take on the topic. Especially now.

Tarantino has never really struck me as a thinker.

382 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:34:56am

re: #381 Obdicut

Tarantino has never really struck me as a thinker.

He’s yet to do anything original. Just violent. He makes George Lucas look like a great director & screenplay writer.

383 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:35:32am

Tarantino should hire someone to prepare a response for him.

384 lostlakehiker  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:36:15am

Tre: #299 Gus

Viet Nam finally “fell” and we didn’t see the dominoes fall. In fact it morphed into a rather successful communist-capitalist hybrid. Currently having stalled economically. I would venture to say that Viet Nam is in better shape today then it would have been if it was left split like Korea divided between North Korea and South Korea. A “North Viet Nam” and “South Viet Nam” would have been worse for the Vietnamese people in the end. It is in far better shape today as one contiguous nation.

South Vietnam didn’t have a halfway honest, halfway sensible government like South Korea had. And North Vietnam didn’t have the total dishonest, not any part sensible government that North Korea had and still has. Because of this, if S. Vietnam had survived, it would not have been as prosperous today as S. Korea is, and today’s unified Vietnam is not as miserable as N. Korea.

As we have seen with Germany, eventual unification does not require a Communist victory, or a military victory of any kind. Vietnam would have eventually reunified even if the Vietnam war had turned out different. The war was not a price that had to be paid on pain of seeing Vietnam forever split.

But it’s quite a price that the South Vietnamese paid. Large numbers of S. Vietnamese were killed in concentration camps after the North took over. I know one of the survivors and it wasn’t at all pretty.

385 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:40:21am

Tarantino is pissed.

386 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:45:11am

re: #383 jaunte

Tarantino should hire someone to prepare a response for him.

Not really. I think he’s doing fine. “Fuck you, kiss my ass” is the proper response for this kind of thing. Since he’s mostly an independent artist he can afford to handle it this way but if he was dependent on corporate backing backing by people more interested in selling detergent and boner pills he’d have to launch a pr campaign and issue forced apologies.

387 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:45:35am
388 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:45:56am

re: #385 Kronocide

Tarantino is pissed.

It’s about moving product, film tickets, advertising time/space in audio/video/print media, guns, ammo, video games, clothing accessories, etc.

That still comprises these people’s primary motives, any discussion of ideology or politics is going to be shaped by what they are out to do, which is make a profit. That is and remains the guiding force behind our society.

389 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:47:36am

re: #386 Killgore Trout

I just think he got sloppy. He ought to be able to do an interview and go deeper than two responses:
“It’s a catharsis”
“It’s a fantasy”
“…”
“Kiss my ass”

It just makes him look stupid and unprepared, and if he’s an artist, he should have thought about his subject matter a bit more deeply.

390 lostlakehiker  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:47:49am

re: #91 freetoken

Let me go on record as stating that the cost estimate for the Death Star has been grossly inflated by the Administration, probably for political reasons.

A back of the envelope calculation is all we can do for now, and there are few precedents for estimating a project like this, which will take global commitment.

The major cost will be in launching the sub-units into orbit, from the Earth’s surface. Say $50 million per launch, taking a thousand launches a day (probably need roughly 100 launch platforms scattered around the globe) … scales to $50 billion a day, assuming no reduction due to mass manufacture.

The bulk of the light elements can be had from our moon, which reduces launch costs from Earth but means establishing a moon colony for mining and refining. Let’s say that the costs can be split 50/50 between Earth based launches and Moon based launches, and let’s say the Moon based production costs eat up the savings in smaller gravity well costs.

So if there are 2000 payloads/day, that’s $100 billion per day, or enough to employ everybody on Earth.

If it were to take 100 years to complete the project, that’s 37,000 days or so…

Makes the total production costs (not including inflation) at around $3700 trillion. That’s equivalent to the totality of the World’s GDP for roughly 50 years.

Far, far less than the “estimate” produced by the White House.

Actually, the costs were grossly underestimated. Warships cost a certain amount per pound. Let’s be very, very generous and waive launch and assembly costs and just figure the cost of the raw materials at a dollar a pound. Copper costs three times that much, for instance, and the Death Star would surely be made of high-tech, expensive stuff.

The Death Star is the size of a moon. Let’s make it the size of Europa, just to have something definite in mind. That’s about 10^23 pounds. Hence, the cost would exceed 10^23 dollars. A quadrillion is 10^15, so the Death Star would cost at least 100 million quadrillions. Spending 10 trillion a year, and no one will say we could raise more than that in taxes after covering social security, obamacare, etc., we’d need 10^10 years. That’s about equal to the age of the universe so far. We can only hope that nothing interrupts construction, because there might not be time to start over.

391 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:48:57am

re: #387 darthstar

Image: 12610_586510411375610_1875523609_n.png

It’s still a screwball system (I should know, I own one), we sell our electricity into the grid (at a subsidized rate) and then buy it back from the energy companies (at a slightly lower rate)

Although in the end I guess it is no less screwball than a dairy farmer taking his milk to the co-op and then gbuying yoghurt at the store…

The point being that Gemany made it a point of its energy and industrial policy to become a world leader in alternate energy and conservation technology. Our approach in America is seems to be limited to “drill, baby, drill” (or “frack, baby, frack”)

392 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:50:52am

re: #389 jaunte

I just think he got sloppy. He ought to be able to do an interview and go deeper than two responses:
“It’s a catharsis”
“It’s a fantasy”
“…”
“Kiss my ass”

It just makes him look stupid and unprepared, and if he’s an artist, he should have thought about his subject matter a bit more deeply.

If he sells enough tickets to generate a profit, he has been succesful by all objective standards. There are no end of artistic filmmakers…working weekends as waiters.

393 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:51:23am

re: #389 jaunte

I just think he got sloppy. He ought to be able to do an interview and go deeper than two responses:
“It’s a catharsis”
“It’s a fantasy”
“…”
“Kiss my ass”

It just makes him look stupid and unprepared, and if he’s an artist, he should have thought about his subject matter a bit more deeply.

He’s right to be pissed if it was set up as a movie commercial and went more serious.

But at some point he should have the serious conversation or may have a slight obligation to. He did after all ‘start a dialog on slavery.’ But in the end me makes movies. I almost don’t care what he thinks, make the movies and I’ll watch them.

394 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:53:31am

re: #390 lostlakehiker

We’re going to need a bigger platinum coin.

395 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:54:15am

re: #392 Sol Berdinowitz

Sure; I just think he’ll sell more tickets if he knows how to talk about violence in films vs. gun violence at length.

396 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:54:20am

re: #393 Kronocide

He’s right to be pissed if it was set up as a movie commercial and went more serious.

But at some point he should have the serious conversation or may have a slight obligation to. He did after all ‘start a dialog on slavery.’ But in the end me makes movies. I almost don’t care what he thinks, make the movies and I’ll watch them.

He made a Tarantino film set in the era of slavery. That is no more a “dialog on slavery” than “Reservoir Dogs” was a “dialog on canine water storage measures”.

397 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:55:00am

re: #395 jaunte

Sure; I just think he’ll sell more tickets if he knows how to talk about violence in films vs. gun violence at length.

That’s his choice.

398 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:59:18am

re: #389 jaunte

Look, his biggest movie before Django (the D is silent) was Pulp Fiction. Part of the ongoing mystique about that movie is what was in the briefcase that glowed.

Soul? Gold? Something else? You don’t know, and he’s not saying.

It’s how and why David Chase cut to black before you knew what was happening in the series finale of The Sopranos.

Sometimes the director/auteur don’t want you knowing what he thought and want you to draw your own conclusions.

Fact is that while Django is a piece of fiction, it’s managed to get a whole lot of people talking about slavery, violence, the South and how all kinds of different issues are still at play. I think that’s a pretty successful piece of work right there.

399 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:01:28am

re: #398 lawhawk

Fact is that while Django is a piece of fiction, it’s managed to get a whole lot of people talking about slavery, violence, the South and how all kinds of different issues are still at play. I think that’s a pretty successful piece of work right there.

And that’s the f*cking point. A piece of fiction. You want a discussion of slavery, go find the relevant literature on the period.

But it does not have nearly as many cool gunfight/chase scenes in it…

400 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:03:20am

re: #170 FemNaziBitch

You don’t live in Chicago do you?

I can’t find it on Youtube, but there was a fantastic commercial of the Bridges of the Chicgao River being raised on cue with the song “Chicago’s Home-Town Airline”. It would have been pre-1994.

Nope. Canadian. I live in Toronto.

I’ve been to Chicago. I found it a scary place.

401 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:04:13am

re: #386 Killgore Trout

Not really. I think he’s doing fine. “Fuck you, kiss my ass” is the proper response for this kind of thing. Since he’s mostly an independent artist

What on earth are you talking about. Tarantino is not an independent artist in any way shape or form. He relies on huge corporations to get his movies made and distributed.

Seriously what the fuck.

402 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:04:20am

re: #398 lawhawk

My favorite Pulp Fiction/breifcase theory from reddit
My Pulp Fiction theory

403 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:21:28am

Kudos to France for stepping up in Mali but I hadn’t considered the possible retaliation from their domestic Islamists
France to pursue Mali mission, raise domestic security

“This operation confirms France’s determination not to give in to the blackmail of terrorists,” Hollande said of the Somalia incident. “In the days ahead, we will pursue our intervention in Mali,” he told a news conference.

Concerned about reprisals on French soil, Hollande said he had asked his prime minister to reinforce security in public buildings and on public transport as quickly as possible.

404 Kronocide  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:22:18am

It doesn’t matter what was in the suitcase. It glowed.

405 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:30:23am

re: #404 Kronocide

It doesn’t matter what was in the suitcase. It glowed.

There was a wild macguffin in the suitcase.

I actually liked Reservoir Dogs a lot more. A much more hostile movie and with almost no feel-good moments in it. Even that one got called a glorification of violence, which is a little bit hard to countenance. The whole film is basically about how if you live a life of violence you have to associate with sociopaths and bad tippers and may wind up dying from a slow gutshot wound while wearing a cheap suit.

People get confused between representation and glorification all the time, it’s weird.

406 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:34:42am

re: #405 Obdicut

People get confused between representation and glorification all the time, it’s weird.

Tell the video games folks about that…

407 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:35:54am

re: #405 Obdicut

There was a wild macguffin in the suitcase.

I actually liked Reservoir Dogs a lot more. A much more hostile movie and with almost no feel-good moments in it. Even that one got called a glorification of violence, which is a little bit hard to countenance. The whole film is basically about how if you live a life of violence you have to associate with sociopaths and bad tippers and may wind up dying from a slow gutshot wound while wearing a cheap suit.

People get confused between representation and glorification all the time, it’s weird.

Or you could be a no-tipping asshole who still walks away with all the diamonds.

//

408 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:38:04am

HOw is it?

409 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:39:33am

re: #405 Obdicut

There was a wild macguffin in the suitcase.

I actually liked Reservoir Dogs a lot more. A much more hostile movie and with almost no feel-good moments in it. Even that one got called a glorification of violence, which is a little bit hard to countenance. The whole film is basically about how if you live a life of violence you have to associate with sociopaths and bad tippers and may wind up dying from a slow gutshot wound while wearing a cheap suit.

People get confused between representation and glorification all the time, it’s weird.

I thought the movie was more a way to showcase the various “character” actors various talents. Kinda like GlenGarryGlenRoss, albiet with more interaction between the actors.

It was a great cast.

410 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:41:43am

the nra seizes on hollywood and video games - which glorify gunplay - to hide behind, and slaps the utterly irrelevant label “liberal” on this

but i do agree that the orgies of gunplay in popular entertainments are sick,

and, paradoxically considering the nra attack on them, glorify guns and make it look as if good guys can easily kill off a dozen bad guys at a time

so, if the nra blames gun violence on the glorification of gunplay in movies and games, i say let em put their money where their mouth is

and they have big fucking mouths and lots of fucking money

411 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:42:53am

I hadn’t heard of this, or don’t remember it.

Several members of the Alaska Peacemaker Militia were sentenced this week.

412 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:44:30am

re: #411 FemNaziBitch

I hadn’t heard of this, or don’t remember it.

Several members of the Alaska Peacemaker Militia were sentenced this week.

Hey, I though a well-regulated militia was necessary to the well being of the state! What’s going on here?!?

413 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:45:24am
414 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:47:01am

re: #412 Sol Berdinowitz

Hey, I though a well-regulated militia was necessary to the well being of the state! What’s going on here?!?

They weren’t regulated. They were just a bunch of idiots with guns.

415 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:47:48am

as for tarentino movies

direction A
acting A++
dialog A++
plot D

416 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:48:29am

Who, What, Why: Why do criminals smuggle garlic?

Sweden has issued international arrest warrants for two Britons suspected of illegally importing 10m euros (£8m) worth of garlic into the EU via Norway. Why would criminals do that?

Swedish state prosecutors claim to have cracked one of Europe’s more seemingly strange, if lucrative, smuggling rings.

Garlic is Good

417 lostlakehiker  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:49:46am

re: #416 FemNaziBitch

Who, What, Why: Why do criminals smuggle garlic?

Garlic is Good

Garlic wards off blood-sucking bureaucrats. Government cannot allow that. //

418 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:50:05am

re: #415 engineer cat

as for tarentino movies

direction A
acting A++
dialog A++
plot D

Tarantino films tend to be pretty predictable.

419 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:51:42am

re: #414 dragonfire1981

They weren’t regulated. They were just a bunch of idiots with guns.

Who is the government to tell a militia how to regulate itself?

420 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:53:37am

The Oldest Rock In The World Tells Us A Story

So, all of a sudden, here was evidence that the red hot, lava-laced, boiling, lifeless Earth of 4.4 billion years ago had water on it! What’s more, Watson says, “we feel our results point more strongly toward the idea of surface water.”

421 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:56:36am

POTUS Would Very Much Appreciate It If Illinois Legalized Same-Sex Marriage

President Barack Obama has very publicly entered the fight for same-sex marriage in Illinois. Possibly just days before the Illinois General Assembly wrangles over the issue of same-sex marriage, POTUS urged lawmakers in his home state to legalize same-sex marriage because, in so many words, it’d be really shitty of them not to.

My favorite comment from that article:

Illinois is such a weird word.

422 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:02:12pm

I see you Obdicut :)


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 Frank says:

Sometimes you got to get sick before you can feel better.