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Glenn Beck Building Ayn Rand-Inspired Utopia

Glenn’s Gulch?
Wingnuts • Views: 26,624

Glenn Beck has a dream. On Thursday, the former Fox News host, gold bug, survival-seed guru, movie star, and bestselling author unveiled plans for a new planned community—inspired by the Ayn Rand novel Atlas Shrugged—to be built at an undisclosed location somewhere in the United States*.

No, really:

Glenn believes that he can bring the heart and the spirit of Walt’s early Disneyland ideas into reality. Independence, USA wouldn’t be about rides and merchandise, but would be about community and freedom. The Marketplace would be a place where craftmen and artisan could open and run real small businesses and stores. The owners and tradesmen could hold apprenticeships and teach young people the skills and entrepreneurial spirit that has been lost in today’s entitlement state.

There would also be an Media Center, where Glenn’s production company would film television, movies, documentaries, and more. Glenn hoped to include scripted television that would challenge viewers without resorting to a loss of human decency. He also said it would be a place where aspiring journalists would learn how to be great reporters.

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289 comments

1 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:55:27am

I’m betting you’ll have to sign a waiver to enter.

By signing this waiver I state that if anything happens to me while within the bounds of Glenn Beck’s Cloud CooCooLand it is my own fault for being weak and stupid and so I waive all methods of seeking recompense save weapons use. I also state that anything I take with me into Glenn Beck’s Cloud CooCooLand is mine only if I’m strong enough to keep it.

Also attached is my last will and testament.

I’m not going within ten miles of the place.

2 dragonath  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:09:50am

Yup, Beck built it, every brick, with hard work and sweat.

3 Tigger2005  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:22:22am

There will be no churches in this utopia, right? Cuz, y’know, Ayn Rand was an atheist.

4 alinuxguru  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:45:00am

Friggin’ hippies and their communes

5 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:39:00am

Isn’t a “planned community” the very opposite of what Rand envisioned? Will there be covenants and deed restrictions? Individual freedom, indeed.
Will people be required to buy local, or will they like everyone else have the freedom to shop online for cheaper buggy whips than the small local shop-even with its cheap apprentice based labor force-can turn out?

Inquiring minds want to know.

6 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:40:34am

re: #3 Tigger2005

There will be no churches in this utopia, right? Cuz, y’know, Ayn Rand was an atheist.

As all good Marxists are.

7 Godisdeadandburied  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:44:41am

Why doesn’t Beck just look at any country in the third world? Horrid working conditions, millions dying from lack of food and medical care, and people being paid $1 or less a day. Sounds like an Ayn Rand-inspired utopia to me.

8 jdoc1357  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 8:53:56am

Anyone else think this will end with a lot of dead bodies and empty KoolAid pitchers?

9 DeepBlue  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:49:11am

I hope that they ignore all building codes since they are obviously (‘objectively’) marxist-socialist nanny-state nonsense.

10 Skip Intro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 9:49:42am

re: #8 jdoc1357

Anyone else think this will end with a lot of dead bodies and empty KoolAid pitchers?

I think it will end up with Beck collecting a ton of money from his dupes and building next to nothing. See Jim/Tammy Bakker for an example.

11 bubba zanetti  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:31:30am
The Marketplace would be a place where craftmen and artisan could open and run real small businesses and stores.

That’s thinking outside of the box.

12 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 10:59:34am

re: #8 jdoc1357

Anyone else think this will end with a lot of dead bodies and empty KoolAid pitchers?

More likely, it will end by never beginning, with a bunch of Glen Beck considerably lighter in their bank accounts.

13 subterraneanhomesickalien  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:32:11am

Why do I have a feeling that the legend of Beck is going to end after a night where five kilos of cocaine go up his nose and two dead hookers are found in his shower the morning after?

14 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:43:34am

So I’m curious.

How many black people and muslims and latinos get to join?

15 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:49:33am

I guess Glenn has never played Bioshock, or he’d know this isn’t going to turn out well.

16 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:49:49am

How can this NOT be the Onion??

17 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:50:21am

re: #15 Charles Johnson

I guess Glenn has never played Bioshock, or he’d know this isn’t going to turn out well.

Heck I’ve never played Bioshock and I KNOW it isn’t going to turn out well.

18 Kid A  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:51:18am

re: #13 Kdizzle

Why do I have a feeling that the legend of Beck is going to end after a night where five kilos of cocaine go up his nose and two dead hookers are found in his shower the morning after?

Kinda like what Senator Leary found in The Godfather, Part II.

19 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:52:23am

re: #15 Charles Johnson

I guess Glenn has never played Bioshock, or he’d know this isn’t going to turn out well.

“This will be a great and wonderful place…if you can afford it. If not, we’ve got plenty of jobs waiting, though the wages will only be good within the city limits and will be barely above subsistence.”

20 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:54:40am

re: #19 Targetpractice

“This will be a great and wonderful place…if you can afford it. If not, we’ve got plenty of jobs waiting, though the wages will only be good within the city limits and will be barely above subsistence.

that’s the randian spirit…

21 subterraneanhomesickalien  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:54:49am

re: #18 Kid A

I thought it was implied in the film that Michael had Al kill the hooker while Geary was incapacitated, to make sure that Geary would play ball with the casino license acquisition or else?

But anyway, I guess the whole “found with a dead girl or live boy” thing would destroy Beck just as well as any political figure.

22 nines09  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:55:17am

Welcome to Beckville. We eat Beckfood, work in Beckland, get paid in Beckbucks and live in Beckhomes. We are Beckians and serve only The Beck.

23 Sionainn  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 11:56:19am

re: #18 Kid A

Kinda like what Senator Leary found in The Godfather, Part II.

I just finishing watching the first Godfather last night. On to the second one tonight. My question - are there supposed to be subtitles for the Italian being spoken?

24 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:00:24pm

re: #23 Sionainn

I just finishing watching the first Godfather last night. On to the second one tonight. My question - are there supposed to be subtitles for the Italian being spoken?

As I Recall: Yes

25 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:01:24pm

Beck is really scrambling for ways to earn cash get donations, isn’t he?

Very Randian, indeed.

26 Sionainn  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:01:56pm

re: #24 FemNaziBitch

As I Recall: Yes

I knew we had to be missing something. :-(

27 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:05:22pm

teach young people the skills and entrepreneurial spirit that has been lost in today’s entitlement state.

maybe where you are, but here in commie california we are still spawning new companies, new ideas, and new technologies at a tremendous rate

curious, that

28 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:06:04pm

One of Glenn’s commenters already expressing a little defeatism:

wynder:

People! You’re not thinking here! If this is to be within the confines of Amerika, it will NEVER happen. There is NO WAY the douchebag-in-chief and all his commie cronies will EVER allow for this to happen. They will use taxes, regulation, investigations, lies, prevarications, “bought” building, permitting and codes enforcement “officials”, the criminal U.S. media, BS “laws” created out of thin air and flexible enough to shut every door Glenn and company try to open, not to mention that all of this will still be subject to 0 bow Mao care and all the rest of the socialist/commie mandates in place and to come in the future.

ANYwhere Glenn tries to establish this will result in a call from “king” Herod to some bought-and-paid-for komrade judge to put a stop to this using every tactic in the libturd quiver. They will invent new laws, use regulations, pseudo-science and probably even voodoo to prevent any thought of driving a shovel into the ground to begin construction.

This idea, and the man behind it, will be destroyed.

Book it.

“Probably even voodoo.” Game over, man.

29 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:07:00pm

re: #28 jaunte

One of Glenn’s commenters already expressing a little defeatism:

“Probably even voodoo.” Game over, man.

good they have someone to blame it on when it fails…

30 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:08:33pm

re: #27 engineer cat

teach young people the skills and entrepreneurial spirit that has been lost in today’s entitlement state.

maybe where you are, but here in commie california we are still spawning new companies, new ideas, and new technologies at a tremendous rate

curious, that

Yes, imagination has been totally stifled there. Such a shame.

It’s so strange that the recent books I’ve been reading seem to center on this Randian theme and explore the the flaws and truths of it.

The latest is Beggars in Spain by Nancy Kress which specifically explores Rand. So far, the main character, has learned that “Trade is not Linear”. Meaning that the Beggars of the World do have value, because trade is an ecology. I’m still wrapping my head round some of the other memes, but so far, I am really enjoying the series.

I love Sci-Fi

31 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:08:54pm

re: #29 Sol Berdinowitz

good they have someone to blame it on when it fails…

Upding for using when instead of if.

32 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:09:29pm
Independence, USA wouldn’t be about rides and merchandise, but would be about community and freedom.

Specifically the ones imposed by the people in charge. Any ideas or beliefs that clash with the management will result in being asked to leave.

The Marketplace would be a place where craftmen and artisan could open and run real small businesses and stores.

The irony of a guy who used to run his show on a network bankrolled by the sort of companies that have killed small businesses and stores is absolutely thick.

The owners and tradesmen could hold apprenticeships and teach young people the skills and entrepreneurial spirit that has been lost in today’s entitlement state.

Apprenticeships have been falling out because people have realized that most of the big-paying jobs, the ones that are needed in a digital age, can’t be learned OJT. If you wanna build the future instead of just fix it, you need higher education.

33 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:13:06pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

Specifically the ones imposed by the people in charge. Any ideas or beliefs that clash with the management will result in being asked to leave.

The irony of a guy who used to run his show on a network bankrolled by the sort of companies that have killed small businesses and stores is absolutely thick.

Apprenticeships have been falling out because people have realized that most of the big-paying jobs, the ones that are needed in a digital age, can’t be learned OJT. If you wanna build the future instead of just fix it, you need higher education.

Can I add: lower education? We desperately need to focus on the young ones before the world quashes any sense of wonder and imagination.

IMHO, we need to invest whatever it takes to make sure each child learns to read.

34 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:14:33pm

re: #33 FemNaziBitch

Can I add: lower education? We desperately need to focus on the young ones before the world squash any sense of wonder and imagination.

Totally agree, and I’m likewise all for vocational training.

35 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:14:50pm

re: #31 dragonfire1981

Upding for using when instead of if.

If it even gets off the ground before crashing and burning, it is going to be populated by egotistical, self-aggrandizing dickheads who cannot get along with their own reflection in the mirror, much less with other equally egotistical, self-aggrandizing dickheads…

bound to go down in a massive flame war

all of which will be blamed on government interference, especially when they have to call the police and various authorities to sort out the mess.

36 Jimmah  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:17:07pm

Welcome to Greater Wingnuttia, a nation founded on butthurt, led by the world’s no 1 prophet, exponent and victim of butthurt - Glenn Beck:

37 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:17:11pm

re: #35 Sol Berdinowitz

If it even gets off the groudn, it is going to be populated by egotistical, self-aggrandizing dickheads who cannot get along with their own reflection in the mirror, much less with other equally egotistical, self-aggrandizing dickheads…

bound to go down in a massive flame war

all of which will be blamed on government interference, especially when they have to call the police and various authorities to sort out the mess.

I don’t imagine it’ll get past the first year. Rand never wrote Atlas Shrugged: Part II, where after society has burned down, the rich and powerful who “went Galt” find out that there’s no poor people to wipe their asses anymore.

38 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:19:32pm

Is Becks Koo-Koo-KoolaidLand located near the Creationist Museum?

39 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:20:12pm

re: #38 FemNaziBitch

Is Becks Koo-Koo-Koolaid land located near the Creationist Museum?

I assume it will have its own creationist/global cooling museum

40 Mattand  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:20:19pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

I guess Glenn has never played Bioshock, or he’d know this isn’t going to turn out well.

“Would you kindly sign away all your rights to live in my Objectivist-inspired hellhole?”

41 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:20:58pm

re: #38 FemNaziBitch

Is Becks Koo-Koo-Koolaid land located near the Creationist Museum?

Not sure about that but a Red State and more than likely a Southern state is a reasonable assumption. I’m thinking maybe Texas…doesn’t Beck already have property down there?

42 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:21:15pm

re: #40 Mattand

“Would you kindly sign away all your rights to live in my Objectivist-inspired hellhole?”

Beck as Andrew Ryan…nah, I can’t see it.

43 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:21:47pm

I would guess they probably wouldn’t let in anyone with “Dreams from my Father” or “Rules for Radicals” in their backpack, would they?

44 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:22:13pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

I don’t imagine it’ll get past the first year. Rand never wrote Atlas Shrugged: Part II, where after society has burned down, the rich and powerful who “went Galt” find out that there’s no poor people to wipe their asses anymore.

She thought they would be unreachable because of the location she devised for them. Therefore, on their Mount Olympus of sorts, she didn’t have to explore the possibility. She seemed blind it, yet she created the unreachable place … very Freudian.

But, you are right. Unless all members of society are perceived to be Accountable Under the Law, the system will not work. I fear we are reaching that point now with our 1%.

45 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:22:38pm

So churches will be banned?

46 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:22:50pm

re: #43 dragonfire1981

I would guess they probably wouldn’t let in anyone with “Dreams from my Father” or “Rules for Radicals” in their backpack, would they?

or the Koran, Marx, or Kant.

47 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:23:00pm

Glenn Beck is somewhat effective at what he does.

He’d be completely INeffective trying to run even a small community.

48 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:26:20pm

re: #41 dragonfire1981

Not sure about that but a Red State and more than likely a Southern state is a reasonable assumption. I’m thinking maybe Texas…doesn’t Beck already have property down there?

They’ll give up as soon as summer hits.

49 Mattand  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:28:09pm

Deposited over at the forum of the article at glennbeck.com:

Just another quick thought: for all of you wanting to move to Beck-cot, you do realize you’ll still be subject to the laws of the federal government, as well as any county and local one?

50 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:29:21pm

re: #47 dragonfire1981

Glenn Beck is somewhat effective at what he does.

He’d be completely INeffective trying to run even a small community.

Carnival Barker?

51 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:29:26pm

re: #49 Mattand

Deposited over at the forum of the Blaze article:

Hence why most of the “Galt” ideas before usually revolved around ideas like artificial islands built out in international waters, allowing the owners to pass laws without worry of government interference.

52 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:30:01pm

When I was a child I used to day dream of starting a country just for my family and friends and likewise thinking people.
Child like dreams. You know like Glenn Beck…

53 Mattand  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:30:27pm

re: #45 Obdicut

So churches will be banned?

LOL, forgot about the part in Bioshock where Ryan outlawed religion. At any rate, I can’t imagine there’ll be that many mosques in Beck-cot.

54 Kid A  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:30:33pm

re: #23 Sionainn

I just finishing watching the first Godfather last night. On to the second one tonight. My question - are there supposed to be subtitles for the Italian being spoken?

Yes. The Godfather, Part II has subtitles and is my favorite of the three films. Enjoy.

55 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:33:43pm

re: #53 Mattand

LOL, forgot about the part in Bioshock where Ryan outlawed religion. At any rate, I can’t imagine there’ll be that many mosques in Beck-cot.

I would very much like to see some Middle Eastern Emir invest a large sum of money there…

56 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:35:19pm

re: #53 Mattand

LOL, forgot about the part in Bioshock where Ryan outlawed religion. At any rate, I can’t imagine there’ll be that many mosques in Beck-cot.

Outlawed religion as well as any ideas that detracted from his objectivist philosophy. I can’t imagine that the Independence library, assuming Beck allows one to be built, will hold any books by non-capitalist/objectivist authors. Good luck finding a copy of Das Kapital.

57 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:39:48pm
58 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:41:53pm
60 Tars Tarkas  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:43:32pm

Beck has come competition from these guys, who are looking to build a gun-filled castle in the middle of nowhere - [Link: iiicitadel.blogspot.com…]

61 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:44:49pm

re: #60 Tars Tarkas

Beck has come competition from these guys, who are looking to build a gun-filled castle in the middle of nowhere - [Link: iiicitadel.blogspot.com…]

Why’s it got to be a castle? Why not a gun-filled chalet or a gun-filled barndominium?

Oooh, gun-filled bouncy castle, now we’re talking.

62 BongCrodny  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:45:23pm

Might I suggest the following motto for New Beckistan:

“Give me your patriots, your wealthy,
Your one-percenters yearning to earn more,
The noble plutarchs of your teeming shore.
Send these, the job creators, tempest-taxed to me,
I lift my portfolio beside the golden calf!”

63 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:45:57pm

re: #59 FemNaziBitch

Kangaroo on the hop at Melbourne Airport rescued by wildlife officers

Playing Keep Away

I wonder if they checked his carry on bag pouch

64 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:46:28pm

And really, that’s what’s going to destroy Beck’s little capitalist playland, the eventual introduction of outside ideas. Those small businesses and stores will be quickly undermined by cheaper goods brought in from outside, those apprenticeships will go to waste when you can simply import skilled labor, and both will fall apart when the workers get tired of being trampled on and start working to unionize.

65 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:46:42pm

re: #61 Obdicut

Why’s it got to be a castle? Why not a gun-filled chalet or a gun-filled barndominium?

Oooh, gun-filled bouncy castle, now we’re talking.

Castles are so much more Manly.

66 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:49:31pm

re: #22 nines09

Welcome to Beckville. We eat Beckfood, work in Beckland, get paid in Beckbucks and live in Beckhomes. We are Beckians and serve only The Beck.

And when we die we are buried in the Beck Cemetery and go the Beck Hell.

/Borrowed from a doggerel about life in George Pullman’s company town of Pullman, IL.

67 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:50:34pm

Better yet, how does Beck intend to set up government in this little paradise of his? Install himself as benevolent dictator? Create a governing council of the rich and influential? If he has any sort of democracy, then either he’s gonna have to rig the vote or else the poor and needy are gonna vote his buddies out of office and start instituting all that “socialism” to level the playing field.

68 bubba zanetti  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:52:43pm

I predict a brisk business in bootstraps in DoucheBeckistan.

69 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:53:22pm

Dezeen:

“Last year we reported that the government of Honduras had approved the creation of three privately run cities with their own police, laws, government and tax systems.”

[Link: www.dezeen.com…]

Postscript: Future Cities Development shut down in October 2012.
[Link: www.futurecitiesdev.com…]

70 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:53:35pm
71 Tars Tarkas  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:57:05pm

The best end result for all these communes is the leaders run off with all the money before anyone moves their children in.

72 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:59:29pm

re: #63 sattv4u2

I wonder if they checked his carry on bag pouch

HE may have been red flagged for having no pouch luggage.

Q: Do male kangaroos have pouches?
A: No. There is no male marsupial of any species that has a pouch. The pouch is part of the female reproductive anatomy.

73 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:04:54pm

re: #71 Tars Tarkas

Welcome, hatchling.

74 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:07:59pm

re: #71 Tars Tarkas

The best end result for all these communes is the leaders run off with all the money before anyone moves their children in.

Yeah, I really do wonder who it is that Beck’s expecting to bankroll this little venture.

75 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:08:50pm

If I were to have my own Utopia, it would probably not have any other people resident. People piss me off too much. I’d have extended-stay visitors, an Asimov style Robot Staff, a holodeck and lots of cool computers and dogs.

I’d have guest houses for the visitors, so I don’t have to see them everyday.

Well, my husband would be resident, but travels for business. This is why we’ve been married 21 years.

76 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:09:08pm

re: #74 Targetpractice

Yeah, I really do wonder who it is that Beck’s expecting to bankroll this little venture.

He takes Mastercard, Visa, American Express and Paypal.

77 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:13:58pm

Heh, the linked article has even more hilarious plans:

Across the lake, there would be a church modelled after The Alamo which would act as a multi-denominational mission center.

So obviously Rand is not welcome in Beckistan, or at least her philosophy is so flexible that religion can have a seat at the table.

The town will also have a working ranch where visitors can learn how to farm and work the land.

Not shown: Migrant workers who will actually work the land to feed this little community year-round.

Independence would also be home to a Research and Development center where people would come to learn, innovate, educate, and create.

Which no doubt will be on the constant lookout for government grants and loans to fund said R&D.

There would be a theme park for people to recharge and have fun with their families.

The Ryan Amusement Parks section of Bioshock 2 is hard not to picture here.

People would also have the option to live in Independence, with a residential area where people of different incomes could all come together and be neighbors.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh, sorry, he’s serious. He really expects that the rich and affluent will rub shoulders with the people scrubbing their toilets?

78 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:15:39pm

Ego inspired commercial enterprise. How original.

79 Tars Tarkas  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:16:10pm

re: #73 wrenchwench

Welcome, hatchling.

Thanks, lurked for over a decade (back when I read out of weird fascination) then watched this site morph into something awesome over the past 5 years. Figured I read it enough I should pop in from time to time.

80 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:16:46pm

re: #79 Tars Tarkas

Thanks, lurked for over a decade (back when I read out of weird fascination) then watched this site morph into something awesome over the past 5 years. Figured I read it enough I should pop in from time to time.

What did you think of Django?

81 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:18:08pm

entrepreneurial spirit that has been lost in today’s entitlement state

beck’s premise is based on the the whole mythology which is pretty much set in stone and clutched tightly with unshakeable faith:

- taxes and public funds are socialism therefore you love stalin and want to establish a totalitarian state

- you criticized multinational corporations therefore you hate small businesses and capitalism therefore you love stalin and castro and want to establish a totalitarian communist atheist state i will never believe that anybody who votes democratic ever founded a business or invented anything

- 47% of americans do nothing and live on my tax money therefore you love stalin & etc and the whole country is going to hell

- the federal budget is out of balance soon there will be massive inflation, money will be worth nothing, and then the welfare payments keeping 47% of americans in food and housing will stop, and i will need my guns to shoot the rioting negroes and mexicans why are you looking at me like that? why do you love stalin?

my own personal movie is much less dramatic

82 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:19:00pm

re: #79 Tars Tarkas

Thanks, lurked for over a decade (back when I read out of weird fascination) then watched this site morph into something awesome over the past 5 years. Figured I read it enough I should pop in from time to time.

i was just explaining the meaning of “de-lurking” to a non blog reading friend of mine

83 Beauzeaux  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:20:52pm

Does anyone really think that the US government would be prepared to give up sovereignty over so much as a square foot of its territory? Or a state either?
Claiming some part of the US to be exempt from US laws is how that dustup in 1860-65 came about, isn’t it?
You’d have to go to some poverty-stricken hellhole country and get them to sell you part of their country. Then you’d have a plot of land in some pestilential paradise. How could one resist??

84 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:21:42pm

re: #71 Tars Tarkas

The best end result for all these communes is the leaders run off with all the money before anyone moves their children in.

The best result is if they ran off with their OWN money before they sucked anyone else in!!

(and welcome, btw)

85 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:21:47pm

Beck, like so many others, seems to think that humans don’t need to be controlled, but has the best plan for doing so, and should be praised for it and everyone should beg him to implement it.

It’s a variation on Orwell’s “Some animals are more equal than Other’s” theme.

I call it the Beck Fallacy.

86 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:23:25pm

re: #83 Beauzeaux

Does anyone really think that the US government would be prepared to give up sovereignty over so much as a square foot of its territory? Or a state either?
Claiming some part of the US to be exempt from US laws is how that dustup in 1860-65 came about, isn’t it?
You’d have to go to some poverty-stricken hellhole country and get them to sell you part of their country. Then you’d have a plot of land in some pestilential paradise. How could one resist??

And that would last right up until the locals get wind of just how nice your little paradise is and decide that they’re happy to move in. When they find the “Nobody with a bank account below this much may enter” signs, then it’s only a matter of time until you’re either hiring an army to protect the place or you’re running for your chopper to avoid being carved into dog chow.

87 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:24:32pm

re: #79 Tars Tarkas

Thanks, lurked for over a decade (back when I read out of weird fascination) then watched this site morph into something awesome over the past 5 years. Figured I read it enough I should pop in from time to time.

Your site is cool. I was considering seeing Beasts of the Southern Wilds recently.

I assume you’re into MST3K?

88 Stan the Demanded Plan  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:25:02pm

re: #83 Beauzeaux

Does anyone really think that the US government would be prepared to give up sovereignty over so much as a square foot of its territory? Or a state either?
Claiming some part of the US to be exempt from US laws is how that dustup in 1860-65 came about, isn’t it?
You’d have to go to some poverty-stricken hellhole country and get them to sell you part of their country. Then you’d have a plot of land in some pestilential paradise. How could one resist??

Guyana rings a bell.

89 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:25:24pm

re: #86 Targetpractice

And that would last right up until the locals get wind of just how nice your little paradise is and decide that they’re happy to move in. When they find the “Nobody with a bank account below this much may enter” signs, then it’s only a matter of time until you’re either hiring an army to protect the place or you’re running for your chopper to avoid being carved into dog chow.

Hasn’t this been played out in South America since the Portuguese landed?

90 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:27:02pm

Shorter Glenn Beck:

Except things didn’t quite work out the way Andrew Ryan intended.

91 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:28:28pm

re: #81 engineer cat

or maybe i should just have a handout printed up that i can give to wingnuts who are about to yell at me:

NOTICE:

1) i am not a communist

2) i am not even a socialist

3) i do not ‘love big government’

4) i do not ‘hate capitalism’

5) please do not try to ‘explain’ to me that i really am a ‘communist who hates capitalism and loves big government’

6) okay please stop yelling now

92 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:29:45pm

re: #89 FemNaziBitch

Hasn’t this been played out in South America since the Portuguese landed?

Pretty much. The real world has a bad tendency of destroying idealism rather quickly. And I think that’s what Beck would find out as soon as he tried to break ground and quickly ran into the labor unions who’d bump that $2 billion price tag up by a factor of ten.

93 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:29:54pm

re: #91 engineer cat

or maybe i should just have a handout printed up that i can give to wingnuts who are about to yell at me:

NOTICE:

1) i am not a communist

2) i am not even a socialist

3) i do not ‘love big government’

4) i do not ‘hate capitalism’

5) please do not try to ‘explain’ to me that i really am a ‘communist who hates capitalism and loves big government’

6) okay please stop yelling now

7) I do not believe the Obama is a Sekrit communist marxit kenyan manchurian candidate who is going to take everyone’s guns by executive order.

c’mon, you really want to see their heads explode, don’t you?

94 Tars Tarkas  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:31:07pm

re: #80 FemNaziBitch

What did you think of Django?

I thought it was very entertaining and if anything didn’t show the horrors of slavery enough. Like most Tarantino flicks I’m having to rewatch some of the films he referenced just to see how much he lifted wholesale. I did think Basterds was a better film because it weaved together several revenge arcs into a whole with an almost supernatural air (thanks to the movie playing), while Django was just one story that ends with a smaller spectacle. I did think it was more satisfying than Basterds. DiCaprio was awesome, his relationship with Jackson’s character had to many layers they just hinted at, and it made it better.

95 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:32:35pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

with a residential area where people of different incomes could all come together and be neighbors.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

apparently he is too scared to visit all the ‘communist’ areas of the country - known as ‘cities’ to us who have been let in on the secret - where this kind of promiscuous mixing is an everyday reality

96 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:32:49pm

re: #92 Targetpractice

Pretty much. The real world has a bad tendency of destroying idealism rather quickly. And I think that’s what Beck would find out as soon as he tried to break ground and quickly ran into the labor unions who’d bump that $2 billion price tag up by a factor of ten.

He’d twist his already very knotted brain into total suffocation trying to both deny and justify his belief that some animals are more equal than others, and that he is the one that rightly is the one to choose which is which.

You know that point in which you twist a substance so much it breaks?

97 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:34:26pm

This video should be required viewing for most wingnuts that keep yammering about Ayn Rand:

98 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:34:46pm

re: #94 Tars Tarkas

I thought it was very entertaining and if anything didn’t show the horrors of slavery enough. Like most Tarantino flicks I’m having to rewatch some of the films he referenced just to see how much he lifted wholesale. I did think Basterds was a better film because it weaved together several revenge arcs into a whole with an almost supernatural air (thanks to the movie playing), while Django was just one story that ends with a smaller spectacle. I did think it was more satisfying than Basterds. DiCaprio was awesome, his relationship with Jackson’s character had to many layers they just hinted at, and it made it better.

I thought he did the best job he could at showing the reality of slavery while keeping it possible for the audience to actually enjoy the movie. Too much more and it would have been a total downer. I really liked how he showed the poor whites as very much illiterate serfs themselves. Many people don’t really realize the feifdom’s many plantations owners created.

I had a hard time with Basterds. It’s a topic I am very queezy about. Alternative histories usually bother me. But Django didn’t for some reason.

99 Tars Tarkas  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:34:54pm

re: #87 Obdicut

Your site is cool. I was considering seeing Beasts of the Southern Wilds recently.

I assume you’re into MST3K?

Thanks, and I love MST3K. I’m debating seeing the RiffTrax guys live in town again in 12 days, I’ll probably go and justify it as a birthday present

100 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:37:17pm

re: #93 FemNaziBitch

7) I do not believe the Obama is a Sekrit communist marxit kenyan manchurian candidate who is going to take everyone’s guns by executive order.

c’mon, you really want to see their heads explode, don’t you?

Actually, that would be entertaining.

Oh, and by the way, when you get through with the Beggars series, Connie Willis has got a diptych based in the Domesday Book milieu that takes place in London during the Battle of Britain and the Second Blitz (V-1s/V-2s). It’s pretty Killer Bee so far.

101 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:38:00pm

re: #99 Tars Tarkas

Thanks, and I love MST3K. I’m debating seeing the RiffTrax guys live in town again in 12 days, I’ll probably go and justify it as a birthday present

Do it, it’s always worth it. TV’s Frank is a great twitterer if you don’t follow him already.

102 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:38:04pm

re: #85 FemNaziBitch

Beck, like so many others, seems to think that humans don’t need to be controlled, but has the best plan for doing so, and should be praised for it and everyone should beg him to implement it.

It’s a variation on Orwell’s “Some animals are more equal than Other’s” theme.

I call it the Beck Fallacy.

Maybe it’s a G-d Delusion Fallacy. Many of the most devout are fall to it’s seduction.

103 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:38:53pm

re: #97 Lidane

This video should be required viewing for most wingnuts that keep yammering about Ayn Rand:

[Embedded content]

“i am against god for the reason that i don’t want to destroy ‘reason’”

- ayn rand

104 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:40:50pm

re: #100 austin_blue

Actually, that would be entertaining.

[Embedded content]

Oh, and by the way, when you get through with the Beggars series, Connie Willis has got a diptych based in the Domesday Book milieu that takes place in London during the Battle of Britain and the Second Blitz (V-1s/V-2s). It’s pretty Killer Bee so far.

Oh, I’ve read (listened) those. Her last two, Black Out and All Clear were hands-down immediately put into my top ten of all time. Absolutely an amazing writer. I’m glad I listened to them on Audio, I think the written version would have been to confusing for me. The narrator did the different characters superbly.

Did you read the “Bishop’s Birdbath” (I can’t remember the name of the book) one? I LMAO. Was it Three Men and a Boat?

105 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:41:08pm

re: #95 engineer cat

apparently he is too scared to visit all the ‘communist’ areas of the country - known as ‘cities’ to us who have been let in on the secret - where this kind of promiscuous mixing is an everyday reality

Beck strikes me as the kinda guy who preaches equality of opportunity from his penthouse. What, the maid doesn’t make six figures a year? Well, it’s her fault for not having enough money to go to Harvard.

106 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:42:49pm

re: #105 Targetpractice

apparently he is too scared to visit all the ‘communist’ areas of the country - known as ‘cities’ to us who have been let in on the secret - where this kind of promiscuous mixing is an everyday reality

Beck strikes me as the kinda guy who preaches equality of opportunity from his penthouse. What, the maid doesn’t make six figures a year? Well, it’s her fault for not having enough money to go to Harvard.

she should have known better than to have been born to poor parents in honduras

107 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:43:27pm

re: #104 FemNaziBitch

Oh, I’ve read (listened) those. Her last two, Black Out and All Clear were hands-down immediately put into my top ten of all time. Absolutely an amazing writer. I’m glad I listened to them on Audio, I think the written version would have been to confusing for me. The narrator did the different characters superbly.

Did you read the “Bishop’s Birdbath” (I can’t remember the name of the book) one? I LMAO. Was it Three Men and a Boat?

I think that was in To Say Nothing of the Dog.

108 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:44:28pm

re: #106 engineer cat

she should have known better than to have been born to poor parents in honduras

The concept that “Equality of Opportunity” is valid for all just because they were born in American or have the great, grand fortune to be a US Person is about as valid as the concept that we can’t abort pregnancies because that fetus might turn out to be the 2nd coming of Christ. Jesus II.

109 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:44:39pm

re: #107 austin_blue

I think that was in To Say Nothing of the Dog.

Passages is a great book by her that my wife found too frustrating to read. Bellwether is a really nice, tight, succinct story that’s more depressing the more you think about it.

110 Tars Tarkas  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:45:24pm

re: #98 FemNaziBitch

I had a hard time with Basterds. It’s a topic I am very queezy about. Alternative histories usually bother me. But Django didn’t for some reason.

I used to love Alt History and Turtledove and all that, but moved on to more pulpy scifi. Though I did just finish Ack-Ack Macaque, that takes place in a future in an alternate world and was pretty good for a book with a monkey on the cover. Basterd’s second best thing was the alternate history came out of nowhere (the best being Christoph Waltz)

re: #101 Obdicut

Do it, it’s always worth it. TV’s Frank is a great twitterer if you don’t follow him already.

[Embedded content]

Yeah, I’ve been following him forever. His Pundits of Oz podcast is a funny listen as well.

111 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:45:50pm

re: #107 austin_blue

I think that was in To Say Nothing of the Dog.

Yes, it was a spin of the original, Three Men and a Boat.

You are right.

112 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:46:52pm

hahahahaha

113 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:47:28pm

re: #109 Obdicut

Passages is a great book by her that my wife found too frustrating to read. Bellwether is a really nice, tight, succinct story that’s more depressing the more you think about it.

I have Passages, but found it is now availabe on audio as are more and more of her short stories.

I found Bellwether to be wonderful. It really should be required reading for HS.

Her mastery of the art of writing is extraordinary, IMHO.

She did a writers workshop on StarShipSofa.com She is a hoot!

114 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:47:38pm

re: #110 Tars Tarkas

Yeah, I’ve been following him forever. His Pundits of Oz podcast is a funny listen as well.

I’ll have to check that out. And I’m glad to see you liked Trollhunter, my favorite “can’t believe this got made” movie in a long time.

115 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:51:28pm

maybe i’ll start a website called ‘stupid useless diagrams’

116 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:52:04pm

re: #113 FemNaziBitch

I have Passages, but found it is now availabe on audio as are more and more of her short stories.

I found Bellwether to be wonderful. It really should be required reading for HS.

Her mastery of the art of writing is extraordinary, IMHO.

She did a writers workshop on StarShipSofa.com She is a hoot!

She was over at Bruce Sterling’s house one night (when he still lived here). Not at all what I expected. How does such a mousy-looking little woman write such muscular stuff? She really is a treat, personally, too. Just as sweet as Eagle Brand milk.

117 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:52:11pm

I’m really liking the work of China Mieiville and Paolo Bacigalupi.

Neither of who’s names I’ll ever remember how to spell.

118 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:52:58pm

re: #116 austin_blue

She was over at Bruce Sterling’s house one night (when he still lived here). Not at all what I expected. How does such a mousy-looking little woman write such muscular stuff? She really is a treat, personally, too. Just as sweet as Eagle Brand milk.

I know and she is a rabidly anti-Sarah Palin.

What’s not to like …

119 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:53:22pm

re: #115 engineer cat

maybe i’ll start a website called ‘stupid useless diagrams’

Some of us appreciate visuals.

:0

120 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:53:50pm

Peyton Manning’s lubricant filled gloves just helped him throw for a touchdown…for the Ravens.

121 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:54:26pm

OT I copied most of my old Microsoft Works files (wps) to my new Pages files. Cut and Paste are still my friends but I do not want to go through that again.

122 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:55:30pm

I have to go.

I have to make the rest of Saturday productive.

Have a great one all!

123 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:56:19pm

re: #122 FemNaziBitch

I have to go.

I have to make the rest of Saturday productive.

Have a great one all!

Nice visiting with you!

124 Tigger2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 1:59:21pm

I would love to see Beck and his band of misfits buy an Island somewhere and try and build that little Utopia it would be fun to watch over time. LOL

125 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:04:14pm

re: #120 darthstar

Peyton Manning’s lubricant filled gloves just helped him throw for a touchdown…for the Ravens.

Was just saying to a co-worker, Mannings used to playing home playoff games INDOORS,,,, controlled temperature,,,, not freezing his “lubricant” off

126 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:04:30pm

re: #69 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Dezeen:

[Link: www.dezeen.com…]

Postscript: Future Cities Development shut down in October 2012.
[Link: www.futurecitiesdev.com…]

QFT.
For further research on why it didn’t work out people should try Googling “Charter City” or “Paul Romer”

127 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:06:58pm

re: #125 sattv4u2

Was just saying to a co-worker, Mannings used to playing home playoff games INDOORS,,,, controlled temperature,,,, not freezing his “lubricant” off

You guys cut me
You cut me deep… :)
Peyton just tossed a TD pass for the Broncos..

128 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:08:14pm

re: #127 HoosierHoops

You guys cut me
You cut me deep… :)
Peyton just tossed a TD pass for the Broncos..

Yeah, but he still looks like a goober.

129 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:09:15pm

re: #128 darthstar

Yeah, but he still looks like a goober.

Thats an insult to goobers everywhere!!

130 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:09:43pm

re: #127 HoosierHoops

You guys cut me
You cut me deep… :)
Peyton just tossed a TD pass for the Broncos..

So now he has one for both teams!

131 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:11:49pm

re: #127 HoosierHoops

re: #130 sattv4u2

So now he has one for both teams!

Reminds me of when Ray Williams played for the Celtics. He would make a spectacular play followed by a real head scratcher
The late great Johhny Most used to say of him “he’s the only player in the NBA that can keep both teams in the game”

132 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:12:19pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

Heh, the linked article has even more hilarious plans:

So obviously Rand is not welcome in Beckistan, or at least her philosophy is so flexible that religion can have a seat at the table.

Not shown: Migrant workers who will actually work the land to feed this little community year-round.

Which no doubt will be on the constant lookout for government grants and loans to fund said R&D.

The Ryan Amusement Parks section of Bioshock 2 is hard not to picture here.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh, sorry, he’s serious. He really expects that the rich and affluent will rub shoulders with the people scrubbing their toilets?

You’ve got it wrong. The state in which Independence is located will pass laws allowing the use of convict labor to work the land. Naturally, all of the convicts used in Independence will be black, thus truly putting things to right in America.

///Beck would try this if he could.

133 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:12:26pm

re: #128 darthstar

Yeah, but he still looks like a goober.

He is a world class Athlete and person. He built a children’s hospital. A great family man and Super Bowl MVP. America loves Manning.. I also would rather have Brady on my dream team.

134 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:14:23pm

re: #128 darthstar

Yeah, but he still looks like a goober.

So what? He’s a fine human being and arguably the greatest QB of his generation. Mock Peyton Manning if you want, but do understand that you are mocking a future member of the NFL’s Hall of Fame.

135 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:17:13pm

re: #127 HoosierHoops

You guys cut me
You cut me deep… :)
Peyton just tossed a TD pass for the Broncos..

I don’t have a dog in this hunt. All I wanted was a good game.

So far, so good! This has been really fun to watch.

136 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:18:34pm

Flacco’s driving the ball pretty well himself. That doped up hospital building MVP future hall of famer America loves is going to have to keep up for three more quarters.

137 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:19:18pm

re: #135 austin_blue

I don’t have a dog in this hunt. All I wanted was a good game.

So far, so good! This has been really fun to watch.

28 points a quarter…that’s all I ask…and for Green Bay to dispatch the 49ers this afternoon.

138 Political Atheist  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:19:19pm

re: #71 Tars Tarkas

The best end result for all these communes is the leaders run off with all the money before anyone moves their children in.

I just spent some time in that website of yours. I like it.

139 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:19:25pm

re: #135 austin_blue

I don’t have a dog in this hunt. All I wanted was a good game.

So far, so good! This has been really fun to watch.

It’s turning into a great exciting game with lots of fireworks. And we have 3 quarter left.. *Wipe sweat from face*

140 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:22:37pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

You’ve got it wrong. The state in which Independence is located will pass laws allowing the use of convict labor to work the land. Naturally, all of the convicts used in Independence will be black, thus truly putting things to right in America.

///Beck would try this if he could.

Or he could set up Independence in Georgia and get it on the free convict labor.

141 subterraneanhomesickalien  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:25:29pm

re: #93 FemNaziBitch

I don’t know if you actually intended to misspell Marxist as “Marxit” as a part of the parody, but I have to admit it does look like something an idiot who posts at (insert random right wing blog comment section) would fuck up, or some 63 year old bumpkin would mispronounce when speaking to an on site reporter.

Funnier sounding too.

142 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:26:35pm

Nice open field tackle of the punt returner by one of his own teammates.

143 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:30:46pm

Image: 555394_407956515946968_1273402692_n.png

Paul Ryan is a woman’s worst enemy.

144 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:32:21pm

Speaking of Bioshock:


Whee! Can’t wait.

145 efuseakay  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:33:28pm
146 subterraneanhomesickalien  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:34:33pm

re: #143 darthstar

I’m guessing back in college when he and his friends referred to themselves as “PUSSY DESTROYERS BROHEIMS!!!!!” they may have had no idea that one day that would be an actual factual statement.

147 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:35:02pm

re: #145 efuseakay

Why does he have a MagLite flashlight attached to the barrel of the rifle?

Image: 15.png

148 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:35:11pm

re: #143 darthstar

Image: 555394_407956515946968_1273402692_n.png

Paul Ryan is a woman’s worst enemy.

Got Evidence?

149 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:35:46pm

re: #147 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Why does he have a MagLite flashlight attached to the barrel of the rifle?

Image: 15.png

Use in low light conditions?

150 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:37:40pm

re: #147 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Why does he have a MagLite flashlight attached to the barrel of the rifle?

Image: 15.png

I’m guessing it’s a homemade silencer.

151 efuseakay  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:37:46pm

re: #147 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Why does he have a MagLite flashlight attached to the barrel of the rifle?

Image: 15.png

Hollowed out I’m sure, as a homemade silencer. Some people have done that with oil filters.

152 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:38:15pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Got Evidence?

It’s in the image.

153 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:38:29pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Got Evidence?

I trust you either didn’t click on the link or are joking?

154 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:38:53pm

A town inspired by a fantasy novel? Yeah that will go over well Glenn.

155 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:40:26pm

Okay…nice toss by Manning. Now the Ravens get to score again. I like the way these teams are alternating end-zone celebrations.

156 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:42:13pm
157 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:45:31pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Got Evidence?

[Link: www.govtrack.us…]

Setting aside the whole “rapists suing over abortion” argument, the idea that these men (correction, 15 men, ONE woman) would be wasting America’s time with this after it has been so soundly rejected by the public (even in Mississippi!) is reprehensible. Once again, LAZER FOCUS on jobs and the economy.

158 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:46:35pm

re: #157 bratwurst

It’s all they have.

159 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:47:56pm

re: #152 wrenchwench

It’s in the image.

No, it’s not. The text in that image is an assertion. It is not backed up by any article link or text from proposed legislation.

160 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:48:17pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Got Evidence?

The fact that he wants to allow rapists to be able to sue their victims?

161 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:49:50pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. The text in that image is an assertion. It is not backed up by any article link or text from proposed legislation.

Here’s the link. Please RTWT and tell me what you think.

162 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:49:54pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. The text in that image is an assertion. It is not backed up by any article link or text from proposed legislation.

Link

edit: you beat me to it!

163 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:50:23pm

re: #162 calochortus

Link

4 seconds! The day is mine!

164 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:50:36pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. The text in that image is an assertion. It is not backed up by any article link or text from proposed legislation.

Why do you defend that asshole?

165 JAFO  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:51:12pm

re: #164 darthstar

Why do you defend that asshole?

Because he’s a (R)

166 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:51:21pm

re: #157 bratwurst

[Link: www.govtrack.us…]

Setting aside the whole “rapists suing over abortion” argument, the idea that these men would be wasting America’s time with this after it has been so soundly rejected by the public (even in Mississippi!) is reprehensible. Once again, LAZER FOCUS on jobs and the economy.

How is that allowing rapists to sue their victims? There’s no provision made for torts in that bill.

167 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:51:23pm

re: #163 wrenchwench

4 seconds! The day is mine!

I admit defeat by a worthy opponent!

168 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:51:29pm

re: #150 darthstar

I’m guessing it’s a homemade silencer.

I was thinking that, but to me that makes about as much sense as a plywood spoiler on Grandma’s grocery-getter.

Like so:

Image: w212674944.jpg

169 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:51:47pm

re: #157 bratwurst

Once again, LAZER FOCUS on jobs and the economy.

All these Republican assholes have is obstructionism and social atavism.

They are the living embodiment of Fuck You, I Got Mine.

170 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:53:29pm

I have not analyzed the bill myself, but here is a quote from the article:

Further, in those states, if a woman was raped and wanted to have an abortion in another state, her rapist could theoretically sue her to stop the abortion, and Drum suspects that he’d probably win.

171 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:53:49pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

Here’s the link. Please RTWT and tell me what you think.

I did read it, and it links to the same bill Bratwurst linked to. That bill, as currently pending, is a fairly ‘clean’ bill and doesn’t contain any lawsuit provisions.

172 bratwurst  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:54:01pm

re: #166 Dark_Falcon

How is that allowing rapists to sue their victims? There’s no provision made for torts in that bill.

So you are just going to ignore what I wrote in order to make your partisan defense of a man who espouses (and seeks to legislate) extreme religious beliefs?

173 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:54:17pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

No, it’s not. The text in that image is an assertion. It is not backed up by any article link or text from proposed legislation.

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

I did read it, and it links to the same bill Bratwurst linked to. That bill, as currently pending, is a fairly ‘clean’ bill and doesn’t contain any lawsuit provisions.

As I’ve said before, a ‘personhood bill’ would confer personhood upon a fertilized egg, and take it away from the woman who carries it.

Can you defend such a bill? Can you continue to support a person who pushes this legislation?

174 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:55:09pm
) the life of each human being begins with fertilization, cloning, or its functional equivalent,

Cloning or its functional equivalent? I think Ryan’s trying to give personhood to stem cells so they can’t be used for medical research.

175 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:56:17pm

re: #173 wrenchwench

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

As I’ve said before, a ‘personhood bill’ would confer personhood upon a fertilized egg, and take it away from the woman who carries it.

Can you defend such a bill? Can you continue to support a person who pushes this legislation?

QFT.

Dark, am I a real person or would a fetus be able to trump my rights? (never mind that at my age that won’t be happening…)

176 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:56:20pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

I did read it, and it links to the same bill Bratwurst linked to. That bill, as currently pending, is a fairly ‘clean’ bill and doesn’t contain any lawsuit provisions.

Dark, do you support that bill?

177 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:56:46pm

re: #174 darthstar

Cloning or its functional equivalent? I think Ryan’s trying to give personhood to stem cells so they can’t be used for medical research.

TWINS ARE AN ABOMINATION AND MUST BE DESTROYED!!!!!1

178 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:57:21pm

re: #177 wrenchwench

Well, you never know which twin is the evil spirit, so it’s best to be safe.

179 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:57:29pm

OT,but for a good thing, I think.

Normally I could give a rat’s ass who wins a beauty pageant. This year’s Miss America pageant has someone to watch though. Miss Montana is the pageant’s first autistic contestant. She’s adorable of course, but she’s doing a stand up comedy routine for the talent competition. I love that.

180 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:59:02pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

I did read it, and it links to the same bill Bratwurst linked to. That bill, as currently pending, is a fairly ‘clean’ bill and doesn’t contain any lawsuit provisions.

They are talking about real possibilities of what could happen if embryos are declared persons under the law. Not that you would see it in the bill. The ramifications are tremendous. Think about it. And then think about it again from the point of view of a fertile woman.

181 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:59:16pm

re: #172 bratwurst

So you are just going to ignore what I wrote in order to make your partisan defense of a man who espouses (and seeks to legislate) extreme religious beliefs?

The text in the pic Darthstar mentions lawsuits, yet the bill in question does not. That would seem to be an example of misleading rhetoric, since it would be possible to create a fetal personhood bill that did not permit rapists to sue their victims.

My argument is on fairly narrow grounds, those being that the bill in question does not say what is being alleged.

182 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 2:59:47pm
183 Interesting Times  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:00:24pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

You’re missing the cluebat forest for the hyper-literal trees. That’s how bad things are allowed to happen.

184 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:00:26pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

The text in the pic Darthstar mentions lawsuits, yet the bill in question does not. That would seem to be an example of misleading rhetoric, since it would be possible to create a fetal personhood bill that did not permit rapists to sue their victims.

My argument is on fairly narrow grounds, those being that the bill in question does not say what is being alleged.

See above. It is rhetoric, but not misleading rhetoric. It’s supposed to make you think. Try it.

185 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:01:45pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

How many laws say specifically that you can be sued if you don’t follow the law?

186 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:02:40pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

My argument is on fairly narrow grounds, those being that the bill in question does not say what is being alleged.

Fertile women cannot afford to see these things narrowly. Their very lives depend on the right to abort. Their lives. And also their freedom to do things and to plan things in a way that you may take for granted.

187 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:03:51pm

re: #176 Usually refered to as anyways

Dark, do you support that bill?

No, but my support for or opposition to it is not the point.

Over the past month we’ve all heard all sorts of hyperbolic stories about what Barack Obama might do about guns. During this time I have, like always, tried to make sure that people are only gone after for things they actually do or have done, not over hypotheticals.

The bill in question does not do what the detractor in question was claiming it does. My criticism of the detractor was based on that fact.

188 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:04:09pm

re: #186 wrenchwench

Fertile women cannot afford to see these things narrowly. Their very lives depend on the right to abort. Their lives. And also their freedom to do things and to plan things in a way that you may do take for granted.

FTFY

189 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:05:02pm

Dark, would it worry you at all if someone proposed a law saying that men who had been snatched off the streets could be forced to donate blood by their abductors? That even though the kidnapping itself was illegal, the blood donation (a very minor and brief procedure) would have to go forward despite your objections? I suspect you’d be outraged.

190 darthstar  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:05:17pm

21-21

191 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:06:19pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

The bill in question does not do what the detractor in question was claiming it does. My criticism of the detractor was based on that fact.

Of course it does. Declaring an embryo/zygote/fetus as a person gives the sperm-provider parental rights. This means that parent can sue for those rights. That is a fact.

192 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:06:21pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

The bill in question does not do what the detractor in question was claiming it does. My criticism of the detractor was based on that fact.

It enables exactly what was asserted in the image. And more. Think about it. Pregnancy becomes enslavement.

193 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:06:23pm

re: #190 darthstar

21-21

Last team with the ball wins

194 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:06:26pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

No, but my support for or opposition to it is not the point.


The bill in question does not do what the detractor in question was claiming it does. My criticism of the detractor was based on that fact.

What about the quote from the article I copied that suggested that the rapist could sue and might well win?

195 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:06:38pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

I did read it, and it links to the same bill Bratwurst linked to. That bill, as currently pending, is a fairly ‘clean’ bill and doesn’t contain any lawsuit provisions.

I think it’s essentially a “fake but accurate” thing that’s been circulating for a while now. There are occasional cases like this : Rapist Wants Visitation Rights With Child Conceived During Rape. It’s a real story. Some idiot in jail with nothing to do but file court cases, he can legally request the courts for visitation. The courts throw these cases out but they can be legally filed. The moonbat interpretation is that the abortion law would allow rapists to sue women into having their babies is a stretch. It may be possible for someone to file with the courts but it would be thrown out and as far as I know there’s no way a court could prevent a woman from getting a legal abortion while the court hears the case.

196 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:08:39pm

re: #195 Killgore Trout

I think it’s essentially a “fake but accurate” thing that’s been circulating for a while now. There are occasional cases like this : Rapist Wants Visitation Rights With Child Conceived During Rape. It’s a real story. Some idiot in jail with nothing to do but file court cases, he can legally request the courts for visitation. The courts throw these cases out but they can be legally filed. The moonbat interpretation is that the abortion law would allow rapists to sue women into having their babies is a stretch. It may be possible for someone to file with the courts but it would be thrown out and as far as I know there’s no way a court could prevent a woman from getting a legal abortion while the court hears the case.

It’s not fake. A rapist can sue for custody rights in 31 states. A personhood bill would extend those rights to pre-birth.

197 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:09:20pm

re: #195 Killgore Trout

Rapists threaten to sue for parental rights to blackmail their victims into not filing charges. Nice, huh?

198 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:09:33pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

No, but my support for or opposition to it is not the point.

Thanks Dark for your reply.

It is relevant to me, I respect your knowledge of military history, but I’m still making my mind up on where you sit with on other issues.

Where you stand goes towards what I may think of you.

That may or may not be of concern to you, but it is ‘on point’ for me.
It may or may not be for others here, they can speak for themselves.

In the short term, have an upding for your reply to me.

199 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:10:46pm

re: #179 A Mom Anon

OT,but for a good thing, I think.

Normally I could give a rat’s ass who wins a beauty pageant. This year’s Miss America pageant has someone to watch though. Miss Montana is the pageant’s first autistic contestant. She’s adorable of course, but she’s doing a stand up comedy routine for the talent competition. I love that.

Read about that the other day on an AS facebook group. Rooting for her even though like you couldn’t give a rat’s ass normally. And stand up comedy is an awesome choice.

200 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:11:39pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

The bill in question does not do what the detractor in question was claiming it does. My criticism of the detractor was based on that fact.

That is debatable, if person-hood begins at fertilization then an abortion would be murder, there is no exemptions in that bill.

Think about why someone would write that bill.

201 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:15:24pm

re: #196 wrenchwench

It’s not fake. A rapist can sue for custody rights in 31 states. A personhood bill would extend those rights to pre-birth.

That problem can solved with a different law, a law I would favor in any case. My proposal would read approximately as follows:

“No person who has been convicted of an unlawful sexual act shall have parental rights over any child(ren) whose conception results from that unlawful act.”

Regardless of any other current or proposed laws, does my proposed law meet with approval?

202 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:16:41pm

re: #195 Killgore Trout

I think it’s essentially a “fake but accurate” thing that’s been circulating for a while now.

When it’s your rights and your body at stake, then I will care about your opinion.

These personhood bills and the GOP contempt for women are very real threats to a woman’s autonomy and free agency.

203 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:18:23pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

That’s great, but not really to the point.

I’d also like a response to my questions in #189 and #194. You have a tendency to ignore questions you don’t want to answer and answer questions no one asked instead.

204 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:18:26pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

That problem can solved with a different law, a law I would favor in any case. My proposal would read approximately as follows:

“No person who has been convicted of an unlawful sexual act shall have parental rights over any child(ren) whose conception results from that unlawful act.”

Regardless of any other current or proposed laws, does my proposed law meet with approval?

First let’s deal with the matter at hand. Paul Ryan is an enemy to women because he’s pushing a personhood bill that would enable a rapist to sue his victim. Acknowledge that, and we can move on to your proposal.

205 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:19:06pm

re: #203 calochortus

That’s great, but not really to the point.

I’d also like a response to my questions in #189 and #194. You have a tendency to ignore questions you don’t want to answer and answer questions no one asked instead.

You got me by 3 seconds that time!

206 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:19:50pm

re: #205 wrenchwench

You got me by 3 seconds that time!

Haha! Victory is mine! (Or, we’re even…)

207 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:20:59pm

I was still composing mine but ya both beat me to it. Neverrrrr mind.

208 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:22:16pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

That problem can solved with a different law, a law I would favor in any case.

Doesn’t matter. And even if it did, that other law wouldn’t be supported by the GOP anyway, because in their anti-abortion fanaticsm, they value the fetus more than the woman carrying it.

A woman who’s been raped? They value her even less.

209 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:24:12pm

you’ve GOT to be kidding me!!!

A punt returned for a TD,, now a kickoff,,,

Lucy ,,, you got some SPLAININ to dooo

210 gwangung  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:24:49pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

The text in the pic Darthstar mentions lawsuits, yet the bill in question does not. That would seem to be an example of misleading rhetoric, since it would be possible to create a fetal personhood bill that did not permit rapists to sue their victims.

My argument is on fairly narrow grounds, those being that the bill in question does not say what is being alleged.

You are not a lawyer. You CANNOT say that.

211 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:25:09pm

re: #209 sattv4u2

you’ve GOT to be kidding me!!!

A punt returned for a TD,, now a kickoff,,,

Lucy ,,, you got some SPLAININ to dooo

Haha @ Ravens

212 gwangung  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:25:26pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

No, but my support for or opposition to it is not the point.

Over the past month we’ve all heard all sorts of hyperbolic stories about what Barack Obama might do about guns. During this time I have, like always, tried to make sure that people are only gone after for things they actually do or have done, not over hypotheticals.

The bill in question does not do what the detractor in question was claiming it does. My criticism of the detractor was based on that fact.

You are incorrect.

213 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:25:41pm

re: #208 Lidane

Doesn’t matter. And even if it did, that other law wouldn’t be supported by the GOP anyway, because in their anti-abortion fanaticsm, they value the fetus more than the woman carrying it.

A woman who’s been raped? They value her even less.

More than that, what would define a rapist? Would a woman’s word be enough? (Answer: hahahaha!) Would it require a conviction? How long would that take? (Answer: more time than a woman has to obtain an abortion.) It might apply to the custody of a child already born, but then go back to question 1.

214 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:25:44pm

re: #209 sattv4u2

Crazy game. Both these teams seem to be scoring at will. WTF.

215 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:25:58pm

re: #194 calochortus

What about the quote from the article I copied that suggested that the rapist could sue and might well win?

Because that was the whole starting point of the discussion. The whole thing got kicked off by some text in a image that I felt was misleading.

I do not support Fetal Personhood, but it is possible to support such a concept without supporting a rapist being able to sue his victim.

216 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:27:04pm

re: #213 allegro

More than that, what would define a rapist?

More to the point, what would define a legitimate rapist?

The Akin controversy exposed the very real, very ugly misogyny that drives the GOP.

217 gwangung  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:27:18pm

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

Because that was the whole starting point of the discussion. The whole thing got kicked off by some text in a image that I felt was misleading.

I do not support Fetal Personhood, but it is possible to support such a concept without supporting a rapist being able to sue his victim.

You will have to enact ADDITIONAL laws to do this, since it is possible now in 31 states.

Your legal analysis is sorely lacking.

218 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:27:28pm

re: #195 Killgore Trout

It declares life begins at fertilization. It’s got nothing to do with visitation rights. It’s not a stretch at all— it’s the actual legal outcome of what would happen.

219 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:27:33pm

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

Because that was the whole starting point of the discussion. The whole thing got kicked off by some text in a image that I felt was misleading.

I do not support Fetal Personhood, but it is possible to support such a concept without supporting a rapist being able to sue his victim.

Fetal Parenthood? Okay………(I’m a dumbass. He said personhood not parenthood)

220 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:27:38pm

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

I do not support Fetal Personhood, but it is possible to support such a concept without supporting a rapist being able to sue his victim.

Sorry, no, it isn’t.

221 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:27:46pm

re: #214 Lidane

Crazy game. Both these teams seem to be scoring at will. WTF.

This is turning into a classic game..Winston is hiding under the covers..He doesn’t understand whom I’m yelling at!

222 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:28:38pm

re: #213 allegro

More than that, what would define a rapist? Would a woman’s word be enough? (Answer: hahahaha!) Would it require a conviction? How long would that take? (Answer: more time than a woman has to obtain an abortion.) It might apply to the custody of a child already born, but then go back to question 1.

Conviction or guilty plea would be required, but the accused would not be permitted to file suit for parental rights unless acquitted.

223 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:29:10pm

The worst thing about the Akin controversy were the excuses made for him shortly after the fact and more recently by Phil Gingrey. Really how hard is it for someone to say rape is rape? IF the GOP wants to know why women voters by and large don’t want anything to do with them, this is a big raeson but hey keep on being the Sausage Party.

224 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:29:30pm

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

Because that was the whole starting point of the discussion. The whole thing got kicked off by some text in a image that I felt was misleading.

I do not support Fetal Personhood, but it is possible to support such a concept without supporting a rapist being able to sue his victim.

Umm, the quote related was the opinion included in the article as to whether a rapist could sue, not the original image with text. I will copy it in here again:

Further, in those states, if a woman was raped and wanted to have an abortion in another state, her rapist could theoretically sue her to stop the abortion, and Drum suspects that he’d probably win.

225 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:29:34pm

re: #219 HappyWarrior

Fetal Parenthood? Okay………

Read the words I wrote again, please.

226 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:30:10pm

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

I do not support Fetal Personhood, but it is possible to support such a concept without supporting a rapist being able to sue his victim.

What is the motivation of this legislation as written and what effects would it have?

227 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:30:14pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

Conviction or guilty plea would be required, but the accused would not be permitted to file suit for parental rights unless acquitted.

OK, now follow through with that. How long does that take? How long does a woman have to obtain a safe abortion if she so desires?

228 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:30:23pm

re: #225 Dark_Falcon

Read the words I wrote again, please.

My honest mistake.

229 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:30:25pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

Conviction or guilty plea would be required, but the accused would not be permitted to file suit for parental rights unless acquitted.

Remind me again how often women press charges for rape and how often those rapists are convicted?

230 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:30:29pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

That problem can solved with a different law, a law I would favor in any case. My proposal would read approximately as follows:

“No person who has been convicted of an unlawful sexual act shall have parental rights over any child(ren) whose conception results from that unlawful act.”

Regardless of any other current or proposed laws, does my proposed law meet with approval?

Bar is set way too low. Most rapists aren’t convicted. Almost no rapists are convicted within the timeframe for an abortion.

231 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:31:18pm

re: #228 HappyWarrior

Sorry I can’t take you seriously when you’re calling PP- Fetal Parenthood. It makes you look like a fanatic on the subject.

I wrote ‘personhood’ NOT ‘parenthood’!!

232 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:31:29pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

Conviction or guilty plea would be required, but the accused would not be permitted to file suit for parental rights unless acquitted.

Paul Ryan is my enemy. You are vying for the position.

233 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:31:35pm

re: #227 allegro

OK, now follow through with that. How long does that take? How long does a woman have to obtain a safe abortion if she so desires?

Why are you making this hard? It should just be enough to spout platitudes without thinking things through.

234 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:32:01pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

I wrote ‘personhood’ NOT ‘parenthood’!!

Sorry DF. My bad.

235 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:32:54pm

re: #233 Lidane

Why are you making this hard? It should just be enough to spout platitudes without thinking things through.

I know, tilting at windmills to try to get some people to actually think through their ideas to their logical conclusions.

236 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:33:34pm

re: #235 allegro

I know, tilting at windmills to try to get some people to actually think through their ideas to their logical conclusions.

Ya gotta keep trying…

237 abolitionist  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:33:38pm

re: #197 calochortus

Rapists threaten to sue for parental rights to blackmail their victims into not filing charges. Nice, huh?

Unpossible! Because blackmail is illegal. /

238 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:34:36pm

You know for all the claims I hear from the right about frivlous lawsuits, you’d think that giving a rapist the ability to sue for custody of the baby of the woman he raped would be considered among the most frivlous of all. But Paul Ryan doesn’t think that way. Randian punkass bastard.

239 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:35:01pm

re: #227 allegro

OK, now follow through with that. How long does that take? How long does a woman have to obtain a safe abortion if she so desires?

She would not need to wait for the disposition of the case to obtain an abortion. The law would forbid a person charged with rape from filing for parental rights unless and until acquitted of the charges.

240 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:36:24pm

I think a lot of folks who haven’t been pregnant fail to appreciate the practical and emotional ramifications. They are significant for most women whether the pregnancy is desired or not.

Not to mention the financial impact of all the medical costs that the conservatives don’t want to pay for.

241 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:36:49pm

It’s a frustrating situation because we actually are seeing abortion rates at some of their lowest since the Roe decision and it’s in large part due to birth control being more available. Yet at the same time, we have a vocal minority of people who seem to see birth control as immoral. I can understand people who oppose abortion but birth control?

242 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:38:02pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

She would not need to wait for the disposition of the case to obtain an abortion. The law would forbid a person charged with rape from filing for parental rights unless and until acquitted of the charges.

Except that the GOP would block her ability to get an abortion in the first goddamn place because that’s what they do. If she’s pressing charges for rape? Even more so. They’ll throw every legal roadblock possible in her way.

How hard is this to understand?

243 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:38:07pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

She would not need to wait for the disposition of the case to obtain an abortion. The law would forbid a person charged with rape from filing for parental rights unless and until acquitted of the charges.

Ever heard of getting an injunction? You think there aren’t judges out there that would grant one?

244 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:38:31pm

re: #240 calochortus

I think a lot of folks who haven’t been pregnant fail to appreciate the practical and emotional ramifications. They are significant for most women whether the pregnancy is desired or not.

Not to mention the financial impact of all the medical costs that the conservatives don’t want to pay for.

Being a man is why I don’t judge women one way or the other on abortion. It just isn’t my place

245 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:38:47pm

re: #241 HappyWarrior

I can understand people who oppose abortion but birth control?

Because lady parts and their owners need to be controlled, don’tcha know.

246 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:38:58pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

She would not need to wait for the disposition of the case to obtain an abortion. The law would forbid a person charged with rape from filing for parental rights unless and until acquitted of the charges.

If fetal personhood was made the law as Ryan et al propose, a woman could not obtain an abortion under any circumstances and especially if the sperm-donor filed for parental rights. Argument fail.

247 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:38:58pm

re: #242 Lidane

I would have beat you if I hadn’t had to correct a typo. Curses!

248 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:39:57pm

re: #241 HappyWarrior

It’s a frustrating situation because we actually are seeing abortion rates at some of their lowest since the Roe decision and it’s in large part due to birth control being more available. Yet at the same time, we have a vocal minority of people who seem to see birth control as immoral. I can understand people who oppose abortion but birth control?

It’s because you are still seeing the issue as about the baybeeees. It isn’t. Never was.

249 wilburs  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:40:02pm

You are arguing over nothing

If Ryan’s bill passed there would be no abortions
ever
no exceptions

that is the whole point of it, after all

250 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:40:14pm

re: #245 Lidane

Because lady parts and their owners need to be controlled, don’tcha know.

Yeah, I know. I am just amazed to see this in this day and age. I mean we always had the Catholic opposition to BC which was and still is troubling. Just seems to me that parts of the right has moved backward on said issue. I mean we seem to have more and more people who not only think Roe was the wrong decision but Griswold.

251 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:41:52pm

re: #249 wilburs

You are arguing over nothing

If Ryan’s bill passed there would be no abortions
ever
no exceptions

that is the whole point of it, after all

Ryan sucks. It will be a good day when he has no ability to make law. Not like he’s effective at doing that anyhow though.

252 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:42:26pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

She would not need to wait for the disposition of the case to obtain an abortion. The law would forbid a person charged with rape from filing for parental rights unless and until acquitted of the charges.

You’re good with the hypothetical solutions. You’re not so good with the reality that Ryan, my congresscritter, and several other GUYS have proposed elevating an embryo above the woman who carries it.

253 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:42:39pm

I need to get going, so let me just leave things at this:

I do not support Fetal Personhood nor allowing rapists to sue for parental rights.

Is that acceptable?

254 abolitionist  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:42:48pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

That problem can solved with a different law, a law I would favor in any case. My proposal would read approximately as follows:

“No person who has been convicted of an unlawful sexual act shall have parental rights over any child(ren) whose conception results from that unlawful act.”

Regardless of any other current or proposed laws, does my proposed law meet with approval?

Care to take a guess at the conviction rate for male rapists in the US? Or presumably a smaller subset, serial rapists?

255 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:43:43pm

re: #253 Dark_Falcon

I need to get going, so let me just leave things at this:

I do not support Fetal Personhood nor allowing rapists to sue for parental rights.

Is that acceptable?

Can you admit that Ryan is doing a very bad thing by proposing it?

256 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:44:30pm

Dark, I have to go get some stuff done, but I’ll ask one more time-Do I have the right to control my own body or do I not? If I do not, do you?
Can you be forced to donate an organ? It’s all well and good to talk about another human life, but then pregnancy shouldn’t be the only case where that applies, should it?

257 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:45:14pm

re: #253 Dark_Falcon

I need to get going, so let me just leave things at this:

I do not support Fetal Personhood nor allowing rapists to sue for parental rights.

Is that acceptable?

As a total solution? No. It falls far short.

258 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:46:42pm

re: #253 Dark_Falcon

I need to get going, so let me just leave things at this:

I do not support Fetal Personhood nor allowing rapists to sue for parental rights.

Is that acceptable?

My biggest issue with that is that most rapes are not reported, and most rapists aren’t sent to trial.

So we are left with you can’t abort as it would be killing a child.

And that is not ok
Women’s body, women’s choice, the end…

259 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:46:43pm

re: #250 HappyWarrior

Just seems to me that parts of the right has moved backward on said issue.

The right and the GOP have moved backwards on EVERY issue. The inmates took over the asylum and the moderately sane people are being purged as RINOs and libruls.

I mean we seem to have more and more people who not only think Roe was the wrong decision but Griswold.

What’s even more disturbing about that is the fact that Griswold applied only to married couples. Let that sink in for a moment.

The SCOTUS ruling that extended BC access to single people was Eisenstadt. Arguing against Griswold is basically saying that married couples can’t make their own reproductive choices.

260 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:48:42pm

re: #238 HappyWarrior

You know for all the claims I hear from the right about frivlous lawsuits, you’d think that giving a rapist the ability to sue for custody of the baby of the woman he raped would be considered among the most frivlous of all. But Paul Ryan doesn’t think that way. Randian punkass bastard.

i’m sure mr ryan thought it through with all the thoroughness with which he detailed all his proposed budget cuts and investigated ayn rand’s philosophical positions

////

261 engineer cat  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:49:50pm

i support personal fetalhood

i will now curl up in the fetal position to prove it

262 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:50:41pm

re: #256 calochortus

Dark, I have to go get some stuff done, but I’ll ask one more time-Do I have the right to control my own body or do I not? If I do not, do you?
Can you be forced to donate an organ? It’s all well and good to talk about another human life, but then pregnancy shouldn’t be the only case where that applies, should it?

No, you cannot be forced to donate an organ. The question, though, is “is abortion simply an issue of a woman’s control over her own body?” And to that question I do not have an answer.

263 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:51:08pm

re: #262 Dark_Falcon

No, you cannot be forced to donate an organ. The question, though, is “is abortion simply an issue of a woman’s control over her own body?” And to that question I do not have an answer.

I do.

264 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:51:09pm

re: #259 Lidane

The right and the GOP have moved backwards on EVERY issue. The inmates took over the asylum and the moderately sane people are being purged as RINOs and libruls.

What’s even more disturbing about that is the fact that Griswold applied only to married couples. Let that sink in for a moment.

The SCOTUS ruling that extended BC access to single people was Eisenstadt. Arguing against Griswold is basically saying that married couples can’t make their own reproductive choices.

I know. It scares me. And you’re right. I forgot that the difference between Griswold and Eisenstadt is that the latter applies to unwed couples. Not that it should make any difference because I think any couple should be trusted to be able to use birth control and it really fucks with my head that there are large amounts of people in this country who don’t.

265 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:52:23pm

re: #263 wrenchwench

I do.

I’m glad you do. But I don’t.

266 wilburs  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:53:21pm

Ryan is one of those types who will take extreme positions that win him points from wingnuts even though he knows that they cannot possibly work, nor will they ever be adopted.

He is a performance artist, not a policy maker

267 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:53:41pm

I’m going to sign off for now. I wasn’t trying to start a skirmish, I was just trying to cut down what I thought was unsupported hyperbole.

268 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:53:58pm

re: #265 Dark_Falcon

I’m glad you do. But I don’t.

If you think you’re going to hell, and you don’t know if a woman is the only one to decide whether to abort, you need to quit letting your religion mess with your thought processes.

269 jaunte  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:54:04pm

Paul Ryan is right on track to having Mike Huckabee’s career. He’d better start learning to play bass.

270 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:54:05pm

re: #266 wilburs

Ryan is one of those types who will take extreme positions that win him points from wingnuts even though he knows that they cannot possibly work, nor will they ever be adopted.

He is a performance artist, not a policy maker

Yet he gets treated like a serious one because of his plan. One he even admitted when pressed wasn’t feasible.

271 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:54:48pm

re: #267 Dark_Falcon

I’m going to sign off for now. I wasn’t trying to start a skirmish, I was just trying to cut down what I thought was unsupported hyperbole.

I understand that. I don’t know whether you realize now that it was not hyperbole.

272 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:56:06pm

re: #263 wrenchwench

I do.

Me too. Pregnancy is far more than providing space for a developing fetus. It is a parasitic relationship which can harm the health of, or even kill a woman. It is such an intimate relationship that the mother’s body is forever changed by the presence of fetal cells (at least in the brain, maybe elsewhere.)

This is a harsh description of what is usually (and certainly in my case) is a wanted event, but if it was the result of horrific violation? I don’t think I’d like it much.

273 calochortus  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:57:32pm

Anyway, as I said. I got stuff to do. Later, all.

274 Lidane  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:00:56pm

re: #262 Dark_Falcon

The question, though, is “is abortion simply an issue of a woman’s control over her own body?” And to that question I do not have an answer.

Uh, no.

The question is, “Does a woman have her own autonomy and her own agency, including the right to control her own body?”

It really is as simple as that.

275 blueraven  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:06:18pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

Conviction or guilty plea would be required, but the accused would not be permitted to file suit for parental rights unless acquitted.

So a rapist gets off on some technicality, then its OK?

Personhood bills are a threat to all women and should be to all men as well.

276 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:07:12pm

re: #274 Lidane

Uh, no.

The question is, “Does a woman have her own autonomy and her own agency, including the right to control her own body?”

It really is as simple as that.

The answer to that question was answered when DF said he didn’t think it was right to demand that one person donate an organ to another to save another’s life. Yet, he doesn’t have an answer to whether a woman should be required to donate her body to incubate a life.

277 Obdicut  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:12:56pm

re: #253 Dark_Falcon

I need to get going, so let me just leave things at this:

I do not support Fetal Personhood nor allowing rapists to sue for parental rights.

Is that acceptable?

How are you defining ‘rapists’? If it’s ‘have been convicted of rape’, that’s a tiny percentage of actual rapists.

278 wilburs  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:13:25pm

re: #276 allegro

The answer to that question was answered when DF said he didn’t think it was right to demand that one person donate an organ to another to save another’s life. Yet, he doesn’t have an answer to whether a woman should be required to donate her body to incubate a life.

Think about what a personhood bill would mean, it would give legal standing to embryos.
A crazy DA brings action on behalf of a 9 week old fetus against a mother because she is endangering the fetus by eating too many twinkees…it is just absurd

279 allegro  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:19:02pm

re: #278 wilburs

Think about what a personhood bill would mean, it would give legal standing to embryos.
A crazy DA brings action on behalf of a 9 week old fetus against a mother because she is endangering the fetus by eating too many twinkees…it is just absurd

It essentially means the legal imprisonment of women during pregnancy and beyond. Consider that women are often pregnant for some weeks before they know they are pregnant. A personhood law has dire consequences for every fertile woman, pregnant or not.

280 austin_blue  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:30:04pm

Hoo boy:

[Link: religion.blogs.cnn.com…]

281 wilburs  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:42:56pm

re: #280 austin_blue

Hoo boy:

[Link: religion.blogs.cnn.com…]

“The foundation of our business has been, and will continue to be strong values, and honoring the Lord in a manner consistent with biblical principles,”

No, the foundation of the business is selling stuff to anyone who walks in the door.

282 Acemarilllion  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 4:47:02pm

re: #35 Sol Berdinowitz

I imagine they will have their own police force. And I would assume every pants-pissing male living there will want to be a member.

283 Major Tom  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:02:25pm
284 SmithCommaJohn  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:05:03pm

“Burden not Columbia with your chaff!”

285 Patricia Kayden  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:11:29pm

re: #1 Romantic Heretic

Hilarious!!! Thanks for the belly laugh.

286 Patricia Kayden  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:12:36pm

re: #8 jdoc1357

Anyone else think this will end with a lot of dead bodies and empty KoolAid pitchers?

We can only dream, right?

287 Patricia Kayden  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 5:13:39pm

re: #14 dragonfire1981

Hopefully none would be dumb enough to want to.

288 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jan 12, 2013 7:03:50pm

#115 engineer cat

maybe i’ll start a website called ‘stupid useless diagrams’

That’s got to be the worst-designed timeline, and the most pointless I’ve ever seen. Besides that, the title is “western culture” and the subject matter is mostly music.

289 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 13, 2013 1:58:42am

re: #63 sattv4u2

I wonder if they checked his carry on bag pouch

What does a vulture bring onto a plane?

-Carrion luggage!


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 Frank says:

I never took a shit on stage, and the closest I ever came to eating shit anywhere was at a Holiday Inn buffet in Fayetteville, North Carolina, in 1973. -- From The Real Frank Zappa book.