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The GOP Is Insane - Threatens Default and Government Shutdown

Extortion politics
Politics • Views: 25,053

The Republican Party continues its scorched earth war against the President, and prepares to punish the American people for re-electing him by defaulting on America’s credit and shutting down the federal government: Behind the Curtain: House GOP Eyes Default, Shutdown.

These people are obsessed with destroying the President, and if that means they have to destroy the country to do it, no problem.

House Republicans are seriously entertaining dramatic steps, including default or shutting down the government, to force President Barack Obama to finally cut spending by the end of March.

The idea of allowing the country to default by refusing to increase the debt limit is getting more widespread and serious traction among House Republicans than people realize, though GOP leaders think shutting down the government is the much more likely outcome of the spending fights this winter.

“I think it is possible that we would shut down the government to make sure President Obama understands that we’re serious,” House Republican Conference Chairwoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington state told us. “We always talk about whether or not we’re going to kick the can down the road. I think the mood is that we’ve come to the end of the road.”

Notice that Politico’s article says the GOP is on this crazy path “to force President Barack Obama to finally cut spending.” This is utter nonsense; with the Budget Control Act and the Taxpayer Relief Act, President Obama has already reduced the deficit by more than $2 trillion dollars.

I can hardly believe we’re at this point again, but it’s a great measure of how completely out of touch the Republican Party is with reality.

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199 comments

1 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:53:08am

Because shutting down the government worked out so well the last time the GOP did it. And there wouldn’t be any real consequences to default. Really.

God damn these are some deeply stupid people.

2 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:53:17am

And when I went past the lunchroom just now where CNN was on some woman was going on about how Obama was “harsh” about the GOP and not acting like someone who would fairly deal with the opposition.
(spit)

3 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:54:36am

Extortion, financial terrorism, whatever you call it, the GOP has no intention of allowing the country to be governed unless they’re the ones doing it. As low as they’ve sunk, this threat sets a new level of hatred and contempt for the country.

May they pay dearly for it.

4 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:55:13am

The GOP is nothing more than extortionists and obstructionist, desperately trying to keep robbing the poor to give to the rich.

5 Tumulus11  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:55:22am
‘To the vast majority of House Republicans, it is far riskier long term to pile up new debt than it is to test the market and economic reaction of default or closing down the government.’
// Politico

. GOP fanatics want to play a game of dominoes with the global economy.

6 erik_t  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:56:56am

Government shutdown isn’t the consequence. It’s the plan.

7 kirkspencer  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:57:01am

I had an eye-opener the other day.

A large number of these people think bankruptcies should be illegal. If you’re in debt and default your assets should be seized, then you should go to prison for a while. If you’re poor it’s your fault.

Part of their position - not all, but part - is that the US debt is immoral because all debt is immoral.

8 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:57:09am

We’ll nuke this country from space in order to save it!

9 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:57:46am

They sure seem to enjoy Preaching to the ever dwindling Choir.

10 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:58:06am

re: #5 Tumulus11

“To the vast majority of House Republicans, it is far riskier long term to pile up new debt than it is to test the market and economic reaction of default or closing down the government.”

If they honestly think that the global economic reaction to America defaulting won’t be risky, these people are not just deeply stupid. They’re dangerous.

11 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:58:20am

re: #7 kirkspencer

I had an eye-opener the other day.

A large number of these people think bankruptcies should be illegal. If you’re in debt and default your assets should be seized, then you should go to prison for a while. If you’re poor it’s your fault.

Part of their position - not all, but part - is that the US debt is immoral because all debt is immoral.

Wow, debtor’s prison.

Didn’t Thoreau write about that?

12 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:58:40am

re: #5 Tumulus11

it is far riskier long term to pile up new debt than it is to test the market and economic reaction of default or closing down the government.

Really? I wonder how many hundreds of billions of dollars of ordinary Joe and Jill’s IRA/401k will be lost because of the latest GOP temper tantrum. These people need to be removed from power. They’re dangerous.

13 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:58:47am

re: #10 Lidane

If they honestly think that the global economic reaction to America defaulting won’t be risky, these people are not just deeply stupid. They’re dangerous.

They are dangerous.

IMHO, Theocrats are always dangerous.

14 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 10:59:30am

If the government shuts down none of the Senators who voted to do so should see a single PENNY of a paycheck (or one iota of health benefits) until the shutdown is resolved.

I almost, ALMOST want them to go ahead and do it, just so I could see the massive backlash they’d get for it.

But I’d prefer NOT to risk the country.

Do they have any idea how utterly incompetent this makes us look to foreign nations?

15 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:00:08am

re: #7 kirkspencer

I had an eye-opener the other day.

A large number of these people think bankruptcies should be illegal. If you’re in debt and default your assets should be seized, then you should go to prison for a while. If you’re poor it’s your fault.

Part of their position - not all, but part - is that the US debt is immoral because all debt is immoral.

“Are there no prisons? Are there no work houses?”

16 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:00:22am

Repeated enough times, and it takes on a life of its own. People don’t understand the federal budget, budget politics, or how appropriations work.

Congress sets the budget. The House makes the appropriations bills and after consulting with the Senate and White House a spending bill is enacted (the terms of which can be quite different from what the Senate, House, or WH recommends). The money appropriated is money that the WH and other federal agencies and departments are legally obligated to act on.

The debt ceiling is a completely separate matter. It’s the authorization to spend above a certain level.

Congress enacts budgets knowing full well what the debt ceiling is and that they have spending priorities. The GOP is intent upon engaging in a back door cut of spending - spending that they previously approved.

It’s a second bite of the apple and it stinks to its core because the same GOP that claims to be fiscally responsible then acts in a most irresponsible fashion by threatening a default on the bills the government is legally obligated to pay.

The restaurant analogy is a good one:

D and R go to a restaurant. They decide on the menu, dishes to share, and pay for the meal plus tip on credit card. Both sign the bill.

Later, before the credit card bill arrives, the R calls up the credit card company and says they don’t want to pay the bill. They claim that they want to cut up the credit card and have no intention of paying anything over what was owed prior to the restaurant meal.

The restaurant and others on that credit card bill would be screwed out of monies obligated to be paid.

That’s what the GOP is intent upon doing and they’re going to play with US credit along the way - as well as screw thousands of private businesses that do business with the federal and state governments (via transfer payments that are held up should the debt ceiling kick in and defaults occur).

17 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:00:35am

re: #14 dragonfire1981

Do they have any idea how utterly incompetent this makes us look to foreign nations?

There’s a black President. That’s the point.

18 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:00:57am

How are these assholes not considered terrorists at this point? The only real difference is that they haven’t actually killed anybody, though the repercussions of their actions will inevitably lead to the deaths of many people who can’t pay their bills, buy food, keep their jobs, their health care…

I hope karma comes back around with a scathing vengeance on these people.

19 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:01:34am

I think I get it:


no contraception = uncontrolled breeding
uncontrolled breeding = poverty
poverty = debt
Debt = prison
Prison = free labor

20 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:02:32am

Hi Lizards! I’m pretty sure I’m Stupid when it comes to Government bookkeeping and have little understanding how it all works.
So Let me ask a dumb question..If the administration just cut 2T dollars in the deficit then why do we need another 2T bucks on the debt limit?
/don’t taze me bro! :)

21 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:02:33am

re: #7 kirkspencer

I had an eye-opener the other day.

A large number of these people think bankruptcies should be illegal. If you’re in debt and default your assets should be seized, then you should go to prison for a while. If you’re poor it’s your fault.

Part of their position - not all, but part - is that the US debt is immoral because all debt is immoral.

Are there no workhouses?
Are there no prisons?

22 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:04:03am

re: #20 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards! I’m pretty sure I’m Stupid when it comes to Government bookkeeping and have little understanding how it all works.
So Let me ask a dumb question..If the administration just cut 2T dollars in the deficit then why do we need another 2T bucks on the debt limit?
/don’t taze me bro! :)

As I understand it, the only way to cut $2T from the deficit is to pay a $2T in bills. Therefore putting that $2T back on the “available credit” part of the credit card.

???

23 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:04:57am

This shit’s getting old. It was lame when Gingrich was speaker. And it’s lame now. Fuck the GOP.

24 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:05:29am

We may have to stop talking about the results of defaulting on bonds, because it may be that the administration will prioritize bond payments above everything else:
[Link: www.cnbc.com…]

I haven’t heard the press conference yet, so i can’t have an opinion on whether he’s right, but it does seem like the mature stance to take and Obama is known for mature stances. After all if we default on the debt payments, then interest rates on the debt could rise and eat all of our revenue forever.

I’m arguing that here:
[Link: pjmedia.com…]

So what’s more likely to happen is that OTHER stuff will stop being paid for.

It’s tempting to say “social security” since that would hurt the Republicans, but most likely this administration will be as even-handed and responsible as possible, because acting mature is the distinction it has over the Republicans.

25 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:07:35am

re: #20 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards! I’m pretty sure I’m Stupid when it comes to Government bookkeeping and have little understanding how it all works.
So Let me ask a dumb question..If the administration just cut 2T dollars in the deficit then why do we need another 2T bucks on the debt limit?
/don’t taze me bro! :)

It depends on how you spin the numbers. Here’s what the most recent CBO actually said
CBO: Fiscal cliff deal adds $4 trillion to deficits
Although I oppose the GOP playing chicken with the debt limit I’m not sure if the $2 trillion cut is accurate. There are other ways to compare projected spending but this is what the CBO score says.

27 Destro  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:12:01am

With Godwin’s Law in mind, is it me or does the GOP now resemble Hitler’s last days in his bunker ordering his stooges to carry out scorched earth strategies and imaginary counter-attacks that just makes things worse for everyone?

28 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:12:03am

re: #23 HappyWarrior

This shit’s getting old. It was lame when Gingrich was speaker. And it’s lame now. Fuck the GOP.

A+ post. Would quote and upding again.

29 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:13:10am

The bottom line is that this has nothing to do with budgets or spending, and everything to do with trying to destroy the President.

30 Destro  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:13:23am

re: #1 Lidane

Because shutting down the government worked out so well the last time the GOP did it. And there wouldn’t be any real consequences to default. Really.

God damn these are some deeply stupid people.

Actually, I saw on FOX several Republicans declare that the Clinton shutdown of govt was actually a win for the GOP and forced Clinton to negotiate with the GOP and cut welfare, etc.

The GOP just created their own history for this lie to be true…….

31 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:14:00am

This is why we need center left super majority party

32 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:14:30am

FAIL

33 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:15:17am

George W. Bush raised the deficit ceiling 8 times, and not once was it ever tied to spending cuts.

34 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:15:30am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Forget it, Jake. It’s GOP town.

35 erik_t  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:16:10am

re: #33 Charles Johnson

George W. Bush raised the deficit ceiling 8 times, and not once was it ever tied to spending cuts.

They have teams, not a country. Same as it ever was.

36 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:16:18am

re: #33 Charles Johnson

George W. Bush raised the deficit ceiling 8 times, and not once was it ever tied to spending cuts.

Why do you hate the troops?//

37 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:17:29am

re: #33 Charles Johnson

George W. Bush raised the deficit ceiling 8 times, and not once was it ever tied to spending cuts.

Saint Reagan raised the debt ceiling 18 times.

38 Kid A  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:17:42am

re: #34 Kragar

Forget it, Jake. It’s GOP town.

City utility official: (asking about the huge bandage on Jake’s nose): “Does it hurt?”

Jake: “Only when I breathe.”

39 erik_t  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:17:50am

re: #36 Ghost of Tom Joad

Why do you hate the troops?//

Iraqi infrastructure spending: crucial to freedom
American infrastructure spending: pork

40 Gus  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:18:06am
41 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:18:27am

Trying to argue on PJ media, it’s amazing how their servers can’t handle “10 posts per fucking hour” level of abuse they’re failing to deal with.

For that they need two servers? You can watch the post list go back and forth between two version, they must be running two servers.

42 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:19:14am
43 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:19:33am

re: #41 stabby

Trying to argue on PJ media

Well, there’s your problem.

44 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:19:41am

re: #38 Kid A

City utility official: (asking about the huge bandage on Jake’s nose): “Does it hurt?”

Jake: “Only when I breathe.”

“Politicians, ugly buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough.”

45 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:19:59am

It’s unlikely, but not completely impossible, that this move could cause a catastrophic economic and social collapse of the shit-hits-the-fan variety. In that case, the GOP faithful can eat their hoards of gold and ammunition. They needn’t all starve though. They are big on working for a living and earning their keep, so there will potentially be plenty of work for them in the post-collapse world. MLM scams, SUV sales and their other usual occupations will not be available, however. They will have to settle for things like shucking corn and hauling firewood.

46 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:20:49am

re: #16 lawhawk

Excellent explanation & analogy. I tweeted it:

47 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:21:25am

To say that the president has “reduced the deficit” by 2 trillion is a stretch. At best, he has reduced the projected ten year deficit by that much. The annual deficits remain dangerously large, and the projected annual deficits are reduced only from their previous projections. The current projections for later-year deficits remain larger than the current projections for the 2013 deficit, and larger than the actual deficit for 2012 or 2011.

IF the Republicans refuse to play ball and increase the debt limit, the result need not be “default”, in the sense that interest and principle payments on federal debt would not be made on time. In fact, the constitution requires that these payments be made, no matter what. The president would be duty bound to prioritize those payments. Every other federal expenditure would be on the chopping block. NASA might have to stop recording data from the Mars rovers. Wildfires might have to be left to burn, and people left to get out on their own. Social security checks wouldn’t arrive. Light and power might go off in VA hospitals. Tanks might go without gasoline on the battlefield. There is no end to the folly that might be obligatory. But the debt, itself, would be paid, and the US would not default.

Not for now. Sooner or later, taxes will have to be raised to cover spending, or spending cut to match tax receipts, or some mix of these two. There are soft limits to how much debt we can assume, and these soft limits are not within the power of Congress to raise at the stroke of a pen.

The quantity needed to cover current and projected spending is staggering. With no cuts to spending, taxes would have to rise by about sixty percent.

48 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:21:47am
Notice that Politico’s article says the GOP is on this crazy path “to force President Barack Obama to finally cut spending.”

The GOPteabag hasn’t even implemented the sequester cuts they demanded as a condition to raise the debt ceiling the last time. Is it too much to ask that they make some attempt to put that policy into action and allow some time to determine what the effect of those cuts will be before demanding more cuts? (Rhetorical question)

49 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:22:35am

Racism? What racism?

50 Kid A  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:22:56am

re: #44 Kragar

“Politicians, ugly buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough.”

“You’ve got a nasty reputation, Mr. Gittes. I like that.”

51 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:22:57am

Barton: There Were No Gun Accidents During the Founding Era

Today, Rick Green and David Barton weighed-in on the tragedy at Sandy Hook by laying out not only the standard Religious Right solutions of putting prayer and the Bible back in schools, but also adding a unique suggestion to start arming everyone from early childhood.

Explaining that he began teaching his own kids how to use guns at the age of four, Barton said that people only want to get rid of guns because they are afraid of them, which can be attributed to the fact that they don’t know how to use them.

As such, if everyone had a gun and was taught how to use it from childhood, there would never be any firearm incidents or accidents, just like during the founding era:

52 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:23:11am

re: #48 Bulworth

They can’t do that, it would involve cutting the military.

They only want to spend money on bullets, not medicine just the way Jesus would!

53 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:23:16am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

We’ve Already Done $2.4 Trillion in Deficit Reduction.

Thanks Charles..But it makes my head spin trying to understand the economics of it all. I know that the GOP are experts on Voodoo economics.

54 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:24:10am

One of these day, I need to sit down and actually watch the full movie.

55 Kid A  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:24:46am

re: #54 Kragar

One of these day, I need to sit down and actually watch the full movie.

It’s in my top 15.

56 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:24:55am

re: #49 Vicious Babushka

Racism? What racism?

[Embedded content]

What the fuck does the color of someone’s skin have to do with laziness?

I know plenty of white people who sit around on their ass all day, playing video games and not working.

57 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:25:30am

re: #52 stabby

They can’t do that, it would involve cutting the military.

They only want to spend money on bullets, not medicine just the way Jesus would!

If those damn troops could just die as heroes overseas and not come home and expect proper medical care and treatment, everything would be just fine.
/// /// /// massive sarcasm

58 blueraven  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:25:50am

re: #25 Killgore Trout

It depends on how you spin the numbers. Here’s what the most recent CBO actually said
CBO: Fiscal cliff deal adds $4 trillion to deficits
Although I oppose the GOP playing chicken with the debt limit I’m not sure if the $2 trillion cut is accurate. There are other ways to compare projected spending but this is what the CBO score says.

And I think you know that figure is a baseline from the original Bush tax cuts.
Had they ALL expired at the end of the year then we could wipe out that 4T over 10 years.

But since they did not we only cut 600 billion with the fiscal cliff deal.

59 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:25:52am

re: #51 Kragar

Barton: There Were No Gun Accidents During the Founding Era

Related:

Because that worked out so well for Nancy Lanza.

60 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:26:25am
The quantity needed to cover current and projected spending is staggering. With no cuts to spending, taxes would have to rise by about sixty percent.

Which is a good argument for, gradually, restoring most of the Bush-era tax cuts to something like Clinton-era levels.

61 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:26:34am
62 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:26:45am

I read an article awhile back quoting someone (Harry Reid I think) about the possibility of the President circumventing congress to get the debt ceiling thing settled.

Can you imaging the GOP freakout if he did that?

63 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:27:15am

re: #56 Lidane

What the fuck does the color of someone’s skin have to do with laziness?

I know plenty of white people who sit around on their ass all day, playing video games and not working.

Would that be the same demographic that sucks “welfare” dollars and voted for Romney?

64 kirkspencer  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:27:26am

re: #47 lostlakehiker

(snip) With no cuts to spending, taxes would have to rise by about sixty percent.

What are you smoking? Seriously, for this you need to show your math.

65 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:27:48am

I don’t remember a single instance in the Bible of Jesus ever arming himself with a weapon.

66 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:29:07am

re: #65 dragonfire1981

I don’t remember a single instance in the Bible of Jesus ever arming himself with a weapon.

Bullwhip when he chased the moneylenders out of The Temple.

These days the moneylenders are the temple.

67 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:29:07am

re: #56 Lidane

What the fuck does the color of someone’s skin have to do with laziness?

I know plenty of white people who sit around on their ass all day, playing video games and not working.

It’s an old trope that poor minorities were called “lazy” because racists couldn’t use ni-CLANG or ***back etc. Obama was called “lazy” by some of the more notorious dog-whistlers after his 1st debate flop, and it was obvious what they were doing.

Not sure if you were serious or not.

68 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:29:20am

re: #45 Shiplord Kirel

It’s unlikely, but not completely impossible, that this move could cause a catastrophic economic and social collapse of the shit-hits-the-fan variety. In that case, the GOP faithful can eat their hoards of gold and ammunition. They needn’t all starve though. They are big on working for a living and earning their keep, so there will potentially be plenty of work for them in the post-collapse world. MLM scams, SUV sales and their other usual occupations will not be available, however. They will have to settle for things like shucking corn and hauling firewood.

White People?

the HORROR!

69 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:29:39am

re: #47 lostlakehiker

With no cuts to spending, taxes would have to rise by about sixty percent.

Show your work or STFU.

70 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:29:49am

re: #65 dragonfire1981

Maybe so, but the Jesus they believe in certainly carried multiple weapons and used them on the bad guys lots of times. They just know it.

71 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:30:49am

The Deficit Reduction We Have Achieved So Far. With charts and plenty of detail, based on CBO figures.

(Of course, this one of those sources that our resident contrarian believes he can just ignore.)

72 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:30:53am

I posted on pj:

Since we’re going toward shutdown, tell me again why you didn’t let the sequester happen?

Apparently you just want to force the issue so that we pay money for bullets but not give our elders back the money they saved nor pay the medicine we promised them – ie. the Republican party is doing what Jesus would do!

Heh heh.

73 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:31:04am

re: #70 Bulworth

Maybe so, but the Jesus they believe in certainly carried multiple weapons and used them on the bad guys lots of times. They just know it.

Ah yes:

“Thou shalt not stop to reload, no matter what.”

74 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:31:08am

re: #62 dragonfire1981

I read an article awhile back quoting someone (Harry Reid I think) about the possibility of the President circumventing congress to get the debt ceiling thing settled.

Can you imaging the GOP freakout if he did that?

I think we’d get nothing but 24/7 calls for impeachment (Darrell Issa would jizz his pants over the whole thing) until 2017.

75 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:31:12am

Your Godwin of the Day

76 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:31:17am

re: #37 Kragar

Saint Reagan raised the debt ceiling 18 times.

Question:

debt ceiling = credit card limit?

77 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:31:42am

re: #67 Ghost of Tom Joad

It’s an old trope that poor minorities were called “lazy” because racists couldn’t use ni-CLANG or ***back etc. Obama was called “lazy” by some of the more notorious dog-whistlers after his 1st debate flop, and it was obvious what they were doing.

Not sure if you were serious or not.

I know the stereotype. As a Latina, I’ve heard the “lazy Mexicans” garbage over the years. Never mind the fact that a lot of those immigrants do back-breaking labor for shit pay and no benefits and no legal protections.

I just get pissed when someone thinks that the color of someone’s skin automatically makes them lazy. Fuck that.

78 bratwurst  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:31:45am

Sorry for a repost from the end of the last thread…but this IS historic:

79 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:31:53am

re: #75 Vicious Babushka

Your Godwin of the Day

[Embedded content]

Are they Illinois Nazis?

80 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:32:05am

re: #58 blueraven

And I think you know that figure is a baseline from the original Bush tax cuts.
Had they ALL expired at the end of the year then we could wipe out that 4T over 10 years.

But since they did not we only cut 600 billion with the fiscal cliff deal.

Yes, the CBO scored on “realistic” scenario projections, Center for American Progress spun with projections based on going over the fiscal cliff. Both are real projections but I prefer to get my information from the CBO rather than a partisan think tank’s interpretation of the CBO. It’s entirely possible to oppose the GOP’s reckless debt limit games and still side with the actual CBO projections.

81 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:32:15am

re: #75 Vicious Babushka

Your Godwin of the Day

[Embedded content]

JUST LIKE HITLER DID!

82 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:32:30am

re: #45 Shiplord Kirel

Reminds me of this comic.

83 Four More Tears  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:32:49am

re: #78 bratwurst

Sorry for a repost from the end of the last thread…but this IS historic:

[Embedded content]

HE HAS SPOKEN!

84 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:34:45am

re: #78 bratwurst

Thomas is a complete waste of space on SCOTUS. He needs to retire so somoene who actually has a legal mind can replace him.

85 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:34:55am

Well, I’m going to be a lazy american and take a nap.

so I can stay up all night and do laundry.

86 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:35:08am

re: #81 Kragar

JUST LIKE HITLER DID!

First they suspended their Twitter accounts…

87 blueraven  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:35:22am

re: #76 FemNaziBitch

Question:

debt ceiling = credit card limit?

Basically yes. But as you are probably aware, if you pay your bill on time it gets automatically raised periodically.

If you dont then your interest rates could go up.

88 jaunte  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:36:01am

re: #86 Vicious Babushka

…and I said nothing, as I was totally focused on LinkedIn.

89 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:36:18am

re: #82 Romantic Heretic

I love the Angry Flower.

What was the name of that guy who ran for president last election? He was just like him! Only less famous. Angry Flower is world famous all over Canada!

90 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:36:36am

re: #86 Vicious Babushka

All it takes for evil to suspend a twitter account is for good men to do nothing.

91 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:38:15am

re: #77 Lidane

I know the stereotype. As a Latina, I’ve heard the “lazy Mexicans” garbage over the years. Never mind the fact that a lot of those immigrants do back-breaking labor for shit pay and no benefits and no legal protections.

I just get pissed when someone thinks that the color of someone’s skin automatically makes them lazy. Fuck that.

I agree. Good story on point, guy who does my landscaping has some Guatemalans working for him (I don’t think they’re all legal, I don’t care) and these guys bust their ass, no breaks, no lunch, from dawn to dusk every day. He was talking to me about a few school contracts he has where any workers he employs must be legal, so he grabs some white kids to do the work. Let’s just say that if it were legal, he’d chase the white guys around poking them with a cattle prod all day to get them to do shit.

92 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:38:58am

I’d still like to see how taxes are going to go up 60 per cent.

93 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:39:08am

re: #80 Killgore Trout

Yes, the CBO scored on “realistic” scenario projections, Center for American Progress spun with projections based on going over the fiscal cliff. Both are real projections but I prefer to get my information from the CBO rather than a partisan think tank’s interpretation of the CBO. It’s entirely possible to oppose the GOP’s reckless debt limit games and still side with the actual CBO projections.

I think you’re Bill Kristol.
Or Dick Morris.

94 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:39:37am
95 bratwurst  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:39:54am

re: #84 Lidane

Thomas is a complete waste of space on SCOTUS. He needs to retire so somoene who actually has a legal mind can replace him.

The idea of him not speaking during a SCOTUS oral argument for 7 years sounds ridiculous when you read about it…but when you sit there in the room (as I have been fortunate enough to do) and see every other justice demonstrating an intellectual curiosity and otherwise doing their job, it is nothing short of breathtaking.

96 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:40:41am

re: #80 Killgore Trout

Yes, the CBO scored on “realistic” scenario projections, Center for American Progress spun with projections based on going over the fiscal cliff. Both are real projections but I prefer to get my information from the CBO rather than a partisan think tank’s interpretation of the CBO. It’s entirely possible to oppose the GOP’s reckless debt limit games and still side with the actual CBO projections.

Prove the spin.

97 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:40:53am

Directly from the CBO
The “Fiscal Cliff” Deal
The first section explains the the deficit scoring.

Does the Legislation Increase or Decrease Federal Budget Deficits?

That depends on what you compare the legislation with:

It’s a little complicated but not too hard to understand.

98 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:41:42am

re: #96 Varek Raith

Prove the spin.

See #97

99 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:41:42am

re: #95 bratwurst

The idea of him not speaking during a SCOTUS oral argument for 7 years sounds ridiculous when you read about it…but when you sit there in the room (as I have been fortunate enough to do) and see every other justice demonstrating an intellectual curiosity and otherwise doing their job, it is nothing short of breathtaking.

Lifetime appointments are bullshit. They should at least have to be reconfirmed after a certain number of years, if not just have term limits.

100 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:41:47am

re: #47 lostlakehiker

To say that the president has “reduced the deficit” by 2 trillion is a stretch. At best, he has reduced the projected ten year deficit by that much.

That’s what the CBO’s projections are based on - a 10-year period. This isn’t a “stretch,” it’s the standard way of talking about the deficit.

101 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:43:05am
From that perspective, why will the legislation increase deficits? Mostly because, under the laws previously in place, numerous tax provisions originally enacted in 2001, 2003, and 2009 would have expired. As a result, in 2013 personal income tax rates would have gone up for people at all income levels, the alternative minimum tax (AMT) would have applied to many more people, estate and gift taxes would have risen, and a number of other revenue-increasing changes in tax law would have taken effect. This legislation will prevent those changes in law from occurring or reduce their scope; hence, relative to what would have happened without the legislation, it embodies substantial tax cuts. The legislation also will boost deficits by increasing spending, mostly for refundable tax credits and unemployment compensation.
102 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:43:39am
103 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:44:15am

Maybe this is all a secret plot to get rid of illegal immigrants. With plenty of unemployed Americans to do the hard work, there will be no need for importing cheap labor. Some may stay around anyway, though:

Not-so-fat-anymore-cat: “Hi Paco, glad to see you’re still here!”

Paco: “Yes, I thought there might still be something for me here.”

Ex fatcat: “Well, uh, we don’t use the pool anymore, it took all the water to flush the toilets when the power failed a while back. But, say, how much will you take for a bag of those tortillas you make? Sure wish I knew how to do that.”

Paco: “Half an ounce of gold each.”

Ex fatcat: “WHAT? You crazy Mexican! That’s robbery!”

Paco: “Possibly, but it is also supply and demand. At least that’s what you told me when you paid me five dollars an hour for work that could have paid twenty-two and still left you with a profit.”

104 kirkspencer  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:44:36am

re: #64 kirkspencer

Having made this exclamation, I can see how to defend it. It’s stupid, but he can make the point.

You see, the projected deficit for 2013 is $901B with projected receipts of $1,294B from individual and $365B from corporate income taxes. 901 is 51% of 1759.

Of course, income tax isn’t all the revenue sources - that’s going to bring another $1,100B or so. Bring those in and the deficit is covered with “only” another 30% of tax increase.

Now as it happens, breaking that out angers me a lot. See, individual wages and expenditures make up less than half of the GDP. Used to be about 60%, but now it’s around 40%. Even with benefits it’s less than half. But on the income tax front, individuals pay three and a half times as much as corporations. It’s a separate argument, of course, but it’s one I want to point out as existing.

What does need brought out is that the tax number does interesting things if the economy recovers. If we can get back to what we were in the 1990s or even the early 2000s the deficit goes down even more. It does so because a tax rate percentage of more is more. Pretty obvious, of course, but frequently ignored.

So the 60% is only minor hyperbole but can be explained. It only need ignore other sources of revenues and assume that our current doldrum style economy is permanent.

106 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:44:49am

re: #95 bratwurst

The idea of him not speaking during a SCOTUS oral argument for 7 years sounds ridiculous when you read about it…but when you sit there in the room (as I have been fortunate enough to do) and see every other justice demonstrating an intellectual curiosity and otherwise doing their job, it is nothing short of breathtaking.

Like I said — he’s a total waste of space on the bench. The man is useless.

On top of that, he’s a shitty legal thinker. I’ve had the misfortune of reading some of his writings. He’s an idiot.

107 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:45:26am

re: #102 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Says the guy who illegally obtained drugs and should have spent time in Federal prison.

108 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:46:10am

CBO explains their scoring….

Like all of CBO’s cost estimates, our estimate for this legislation shows the effects of the legislation relative to current law at the time we did the estimate.
….
This legislation will prevent those changes in law from occurring or reduce their scope; hence, relative to what would have happened without the legislation, it embodies substantial tax cuts. The legislation also will boost deficits by increasing spending, mostly for refundable tax credits and unemployment compensation.
….
f we added the estimated cost of the legislation and the related debt service to our previous baseline budget projections (which followed current law at the time), we would show additional deficits between 2013 and 2022 of roughly $4.6 trillion.

They also go on to explain the scoring used by CAP. Both are legitimate ways to look at it but the CBO’s method is different.

109 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:46:50am

re: #103 Shiplord Kirel

Maybe this is all a secret plot to get rid of illegal immigrants. With plenty of unemployed Americans to do the hard work, there will be no need for importing cheap labor.

I’d love to see all those unemployed Americans try their hand at migrant farm work, meat processing, and all the other back-breaking work that all those undocmented workers do every day.

If they last longer than a single day, I’ll be impressed.

110 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:47:02am

re: #102 Lidane

I’m pretty sure the whole conservative project—at least the religious authoritarian part—is based on the idea that “people are inherently bad” and need the law/Judeo-Christian ethic to “restrain them”.

111 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:47:52am

re: #103 Shiplord Kirel

Not-so-fat-anymore-cat: “Hi Paco, glad to see you’re still here!”

Paco: ¿Hables Español, Gringo?

112 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:48:05am

re: #98 Killgore Trout

See #97

You didn’t “prove” anything. Here’s how the CBO page describes the two ways of looking at it:

Relative to what would have occurred under the laws previously in effect, this legislation will increase budget deficits in coming years.

[…]

Relative to what would have occurred if most tax and spending policies that were in effect in 2012 were continued, this legislation will reduce budget deficits in coming years.

So in point of fact, the CBO does not disagree with the CAP analysis. They’re trying to be balanced about their presentation to avoid accusations of partisan bias, as always, but their own scoring shows that CAP’s analysis is not just “spin.”

113 HoosierHoops  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:49:19am

OT: I got some good news from the Sports medicine center here in Norman. I had my LCL on my knee scoped. The results are in.. I didn’t tear the lateral it’s just stretched and inflamed and can be rehabbed without surgery. I’m pretty happy right now.. I’ll miss the the Oxycontin for the pain. That shit is a miracle drug.

114 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:49:32am

re: #109 Lidane
[Link: blogs.ajc.com…]

I don’t think it’ll work out very well.

115 Ming  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:50:51am

The Republican position seems to be: “We’re spending too much money, and the spending is so excessive that we may have to shut down the federal government for a while. No, I won’t tell you specifically WHAT spending I want to cut, and the DOLLAR AMOUNT I want to cut it. All I will tell you is that spending IN GENERAL is way too high, so we’re putting government shutdown on the table.”

These Republicans are so self-centered that they are risking harm to thousands of other people in a government shutdown, before they would spend their own precious time and energy figuring out what specific spending cuts they would support.

116 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:50:57am

LIKE AT WALMART?

117 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:51:12am

re: #113 HoosierHoops

OT: I got some good news from the Sports medicine center here in Norman. I had my LCL on my knee scoped. The results are in.. I didn’t tear the lateral it’s just stretched and inflamed and can be rehabbed without surgery. I’m pretty happy right now.. I’ll miss the the Oxycontin for the pain. That shit is a miracle drug.

Expect a call from Rush later.
//

Feel better soon.

118 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:52:07am

re: #105 Kragar

Well now…..that’s an odd mix of lucky beneficiaries.

119 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:53:15am

By the way, in all this talk about the deficit, it should be pointed out that the only reason we even HAVE a deficit can be laid squarely on the shoulders of George W. Bush, who ran up the country’s debt enormously during his two terms in office, turning a surplus into trillions of dollars in debt.

In fact, if you go back and look at the history of the US deficit, the ballooning of the debt correlates pretty closely with Republican presidents.

120 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:53:29am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

LIKE AT WALMART?

[Embedded content]

Walmart: America’s real ‘Welfare Queen’

Walmart has become the number one driver behind the growing use of food stamps in the United States with “as many as 80 percent of workers in Wal-Mart stores using food stamps.”

121 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:54:18am

re: #118 Dr Lizardo

Well now…..that’s an odd mix of lucky beneficiaries.

Got to give the Chinese something to let in missionaries.

122 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:55:16am

re: #113 HoosierHoops

OT: I got some good news from the Sports medicine center here in Norman. I had my LCL on my knee scoped. The results are in.. I didn’t tear the lateral it’s just stretched and inflamed and can be rehabbed without surgery. I’m pretty happy right now.. I’ll miss the the Oxycontin for the pain. That shit is a miracle drug.

Take too much and it morphs you into Limbaugh - but without the income stream.
///

123 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:55:26am

re: #115 Ming

The Republican position seems to be: “We’re spending too much money, and the spending is so excessive that we may have to shut down the federal government for a while. No, I won’t tell you specifically WHAT spending I want to cut, and the DOLLAR AMOUNT I want to cut it. All I will tell you is that spending IN GENERAL is way too high, so we’re putting government shutdown on the table.”

These Republicans are so self-centered that they are risking harm to thousands of other people in a government shutdown, before they would spend their own precious time and energy figuring out what specific spending cuts they would support.

It’s simple. They want cuts to anything that isn’t defense contractors (they couldn’t give a single iota of shit about “the troops”) or rich people. But they’re happy with any cuts as long as somebody else proposes them, because they can then turn around and use it in an ad campaign. Period.

124 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:56:55am

re: #120 Kragar

Walmart: America’s real ‘Welfare Queen’

BUT THEIR TEH JRRB KREEYATORS!1!

125 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:57:12am

re: #120 Kragar

Walmart: America’s real ‘Welfare Queen’

Heavin-forbid the Waltons not make enough money so that their future relatives in the year 3320 won’t have enough money to live on.

126 Mattand  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:57:18am

re: #112 Charles Johnson

You didn’t “prove” anything. Here’s how the CBO page describes the two ways of looking at it:

So in point of fact, the CBO does not disagree with the CAP analysis. They’re trying to be balanced about their presentation to avoid accusations of partisan bias, as always, but their own scoring shows that CAP’s analysis is not just “spin.”

Is the one of those deals where someone is having a hard time believing that a partisan organization couldn’t possibly be right? It’s reminding me of all the teeth gnashing about Nate Silver (whose predictions turned out to be pretty much on target.)

127 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:57:19am

NJ hit-and-run suspect had her license suspended 52 times

This obviously proves that driver’s licenses and the entire business of regulation thru the DMV doesn’t work and should be scrapped.

128 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:58:46am

re: #124 Vicious Babushka

I create jobs all the time.

“Kids, clean your room!”

“Kids, take out the trash.”

Now I just need the GOP to give me a monthly subsidy to do that.

129 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:59:43am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

As long as the job creators don’t have to provide minimum wage level jobs, because the minimum wage is soshulistic. /

130 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 11:59:47am

re: #126 Mattand

Is the one of those deals where someone is having a hard time believing that a partisan organization couldn’t possibly be right? It’s reminding me of all the teeth gnashing about Nate Silver (whose predictions turned out to be pretty much on target.)

Not true, he said Seattle was going to the Superbowl! He’s a big, fat phony!

/(What, me bitter?)

131 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:00:12pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

By the way, in all this talk about the deficit, it should be pointed out that the only reason we even HAVE a deficit can be laid squarely on the shoulders of George W. Bush, who ran up the country’s debt enormously during his two terms in office.

In fact, if you go back and look at the history of the US deficit, the ballooning of the debt correlates pretty closely with Republican presidents.

Whenever you point that out, it’s always you’re blaming Bush. When you point it out with say Reagan, you get some excuse about the Congress. Really though, the idea that Republican presidents are fiscally responsible and smart on the debt is a load of shit.

132 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:00:31pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

In fact, if you go back and look at the history of the US deficit, the ballooning of the debt correlates pretty closely with Republican presidents.

“Deficits don’t matter!”

Also, Supply Side Jesus will save us. Or something.

133 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:00:34pm

re: #127 Kragar

Somewhere in Saudi Arabia, a guy is pointing to this and saying “see, this is why we don’t let them drive!”

134 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:00:58pm

Good lord, I just realized I linked to a Kos article.

I need to seek the cleansing flame.

135 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:01:34pm

re: #129 Bulworth

As long as the job creators don’t have to provide minimum wage level jobs, because the minimum wage is soshulistic. /

CRUSH TEH YOONYUNZ!1!

136 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:01:50pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

Whenever you point that out, it’s always you’re blaming Bush. When you point it out with say Reagan, you get some excuse about the Congress. Really though, the idea that Republican presidents are fiscally responsible and smart on the debt is a load of shit.

“Bush…”
“I never agreed with that spending!”
“Well Reagan…”
“He never should have made that deal with O’Neill!”

137 Lidane  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:01:53pm

re: #133 Ghost of Tom Joad

Somewhere in Saudi Arabia, a guy is pointing to this and saying “see, this is why we don’t let them drive!”

And somewhere in the GOP, there’s a nutjob saying that this is why women should never leave the house and should be barefoot and pregnant all day.

138 blueraven  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:02:28pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

CBO explains their scoring….

They also go on to explain the scoring used by CAP. Both are legitimate ways to look at it but the CBO’s method is different.

Nice job of selective editing.

139 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:04:50pm
140 sagehen  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:04:55pm

If congress wants us to stop running deficits, all they have to do is pass a budget that doesn’t have a deficit.

The President doesn’t pass budgets. The President doesn’t decide what to spend. All he can do is sign or not sign what Congress sends to his desk, and obey the laws that already exist because some previous Congress passed them.

House GOP fails 5th grade civics.

141 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:07:34pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

I heard an economist say that the lion’s share of the debt was from the fiscal crisis. So while it’s true that Bush ran up an unnecessary debt, the main problem is that we bailed the world out from a fraud-caused bubble.

And THAT can be blamed on what? Deregulation? The SEC not doing its job? I don’t know.

142 blueraven  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:09:19pm

re: #141 stabby

I heard an economist say that the lion’s share of the debt was from the fiscal crisis. So while it’s true that Bush ran up an unnecessary debt, the main problem is that we bailed the would out from a fraud-caused bubble.

And THAT can be blamed on what? Deregulation? The SEC not doing its job? I don’t know.

Cutting taxes while in the midst of two expensive wars is economic suicide.

143 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:09:23pm

re: #136 Targetpractice

“Bush…”
“I never agreed with that spending!”
“Well Reagan…”
“He never should have made that deal with O’Neill!”

Yep always an excuse. The best is when Bush becomes “not really a conservative, in fact he was a liberal!”

144 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:09:35pm

“bailed the world out”

It would be nice if comment updates happened in place.

145 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:09:35pm

re: #139 Kragar

Wyoming Lawmaker Introduces Radical ‘Fetal Heartbeat’ Bill To Ban Abortions After Six Weeks

Laserlike focus on the economy.

These people really, really do not believe there is any difference whatsoever between the 20 children murdered at Newtown and terminated pregnancies.

146 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:10:07pm

re: #142 blueraven

Cutting taxes while in the midst of two expensive wars is economic suicide.

not to mention economic stupidity.

147 S'latch  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:10:40pm

The GOP is no less despicable, but both parties have played this same game before to some degree.

Also, it won’t work.

148 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:10:49pm

re: #145 Vicious Babushka

These people really, really do not believe there is any difference whatsoever between the 20 children murdered at Newtown and terminated pregnancies.

You mean Obama set up the abortions as well? THAT BASTARD!
/

149 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:12:37pm

re: #141 stabby

I heard an economist say that the lion’s share of the debt was from the fiscal crisis. So while it’s true that Bush ran up an unnecessary debt, the main problem is that we bailed the world out from a fraud-caused bubble.

And THAT can be blamed on what? Deregulation? The SEC not doing its job? I don’t know.

According to conservatives, it was “lazy” minorities taking out mortgages they couldn’t afford.

But, yes, realistically it was a combination of deregulation (Graham/Leach/Biley IIRC in ‘99) and the SEC, which has always been feckless and staffed with Wall-Street insiders, with a heavy helping of blatant fraud (mostly because they knew they were TBTF and the SEC wouldn’t do shit).

Go read Taibbi if you need the layman’s version.

150 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:12:39pm

Another comment that won’t get a response on PJ:

You’ll notice that the Republicans want to shut down the government without proposing any specific spending cuts because:

1) they know that the spending cuts they really want, the public really DOESN’T want. Therefore they’re trying to blackmail the whole county just to force the Democrats to suggest those cuts so the Democrats can take the blame.

2) any spending cuts that the public might support, Obama would likely agree to, and the actual goal is not to cut spending but to hurt the Democratic party. The last thing you want is an agreement now.

151 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:14:56pm

re: #150 stabby

Another comment that won’t get a response on PJ:

You’ll notice that the Republicans want to shut down the government without proposing any specific spending cuts because:

1) they know that the spending cuts they really want, the public really DOESN’T want. Therefore they’re trying to blackmail the whole county just to force the Democrats to suggest those cuts so the Democrats can take the blame.

2) any spending cuts that the public might support, Obama would likely agree to, and the actual goal is not to cut spending but to hurt the Democratic party. The last thing you want is an agreement now.

Around 16 billion in social welfare spending
Around 100 billion in corporate welfare spending

Guess which the GOP thinks is untouchable.

152 Gus  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:15:14pm

My dinging finger was having spasms.

153 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:15:52pm

re: #152 Gus

My dinging finger was having spasms.

You updinged aigle?

154 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:16:21pm

re: #152 Gus

My dinging finger was having spasms.

I thought you were just happy to see me.

155 sagehen  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:17:04pm

re: #145 Vicious Babushka

These people really, really do not believe there is any difference whatsoever between the 20 children murdered at Newtown and terminated pregnancies.

I believe you are mistaken — they really, really do not believe that 8 weeks fetuses are the same as children, they’re pretending to believe that as an excuse to assert control over women.

My evidence? You cannot name a single denomination that, when a member of the congregation suffers a miscarriage at 8 or 10 or 12 weeks, responds with a funeral. They do not have a memorial service, or a burial in consecrated ground, or any of the other ritual that normally attends the death of a human being.

156 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:17:17pm

re: #154 Kragar

I thought you were just happy to see me.

Is that an upding in your pocket?

157 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:17:35pm

re: #151 Kragar

Break down the corporate welfare spending for me!

158 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:17:47pm

They feel their actions will have a political payoff. Otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it.

159 blueraven  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:18:28pm

re: #147 S’latch

The GOP is no less despicable, but both parties have played this same game before to some degree.

Also, it won’t work.

Yes, this has been a political football used by both sides. But I dont ever remember the Democrats actually threatening default and causing so much uncertainty in the economy. There is no magical balance here.

160 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:20:00pm

re: #95 bratwurst

The idea of him not speaking during a SCOTUS oral argument for 7 years sounds ridiculous when you read about it…but when you sit there in the room (as I have been fortunate enough to do) and see every other justice demonstrating an intellectual curiosity and otherwise doing their job, it is nothing short of breathtaking.

The one conspiracy theory I’m tempted to believe was that the GOP caused the Anita Hill controversy to hide the fact that Thomas was blatenly incompetent.

161 Ian G.  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:20:05pm

Please let the GOP shut down the government, as it worked so well for Gingrich.

The definition of insanity is coming to mind….

162 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:21:18pm

Nevermind, read it as CBS news. Ugh.

163 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:21:25pm

re: #19 FemNaziBitch

I think I get it:

no contraception = uncontrolled breeding
uncontrolled breeding = poverty
poverty = debt
Debt = prison
Prison = free labor

Regret I have only one upding to give. That was the most concise analysis of GOP policy I have ever seen.

164 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:21:26pm

Late to the topic again…

To me, just this dangerous strategy breaks the oath of office by the Congress.

165 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:21:51pm

re: #157 stabby

Break down the corporate welfare spending for me!

Corporate Welfare Spending Hits $100 Billion in FY 2012

Federal subsidies distributed to the private sector in Fiscal Year 2012 cost American taxpayers nearly $100 billion, according to a startling new report by the libertarian Cato Institute. “That includes direct and indirect subsidies to small businesses, large corporations, and industry organizations,” the think tank stated in its policy analysis.

Corporate welfare, which generally comes in the form of loans or subsidies, are distributed by an array of federal agencies, with the top donors consisting of the departments of Energy, Commerce, Agriculture, and Housing and Urban Development. And while lawmakers squander billions of taxpayer dollars every year to fund their own corporate interests, the federal government will run a deficit in excess of $1 trillion this year.

166 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:22:12pm

re: #158 Amory Blaine

They feel their actions will have a political payoff. Otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it.

The payoff for Republicans in Congress for this insanity is not getting primaried by Tea Party loons.

The GOP agenda is being driven by the far right.

167 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:22:27pm

re: #164 Political Atheist

Late to the topic again…

To me, just this dangerous strategy breaks the oath of office by the Congress.

But that’s disregarding their fanatical devotion to the Rush!
///

168 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:22:42pm

re: #161 Ian G.

Please let the GOP shut down the government, as it worked so well for Gingrich.

The definition of insanity is coming to mind….

President Dole agrees!

169 BongCrodny  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:23:09pm

re: #155 sagehen

I believe you are mistaken — they really, really do not believe that 8 weeks fetuses are the same as children, they’re pretending to believe that as an excuse to assert control over women.

I think you’re spot on with this.

There have been a number of stories over the past few years where some Congress critter or state politician has asked his mistress to get an abortion.

If they really believed a fetus was a person, abortion would not even be a consideration.

170 Mattand  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:23:24pm
171 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:24:40pm

re: #164 Political Atheist

Late to the topic again…

To me, just this dangerous strategy breaks the oath of office by the Congress.

That could be a useful argument, lay it out.

Also Kragar still hasn’t laid out his 100 billion in corporate welfare spending.

172 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:24:41pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

It depends on how you spin the numbers. Here’s what the most recent CBO actually said
CBO: Fiscal cliff deal adds $4 trillion to deficits
Although I oppose the GOP playing chicken with the debt limit I’m not sure if the $2 trillion cut is accurate. There are other ways to compare projected spending but this is what the CBO score says.

CBO includes the AMT permanent patch as part of its calculation. The way the CBO and JCT figure their 10 year estimates is based on current law as in effect. That means that if the current law (when the CBO scored) was that the AMT wasn’t patched and wont be patched going forward, the difference in revenue is a cost to be borne versus what actually happens, which is that the AMT is patched annually.

So the AMT portion - $1.8t is actually a cost that ordinarily gets counted on an annual patch basis but is now regularly going to occur without the usual chicanery and angst as millions of people are caught in an AMT web pending Congressional action.

As for the rest, the current law (when the 2012 act was written) reverted to the pre-2001 rates/tax obligations/incentives/calculations for everyone. That becomes the base from which things are scored, even though everyone expected the law to be based on what was largely the 2009 tax act basis. If you score compared to the 2009 law versus the pre-2001 levels, you get a completely different accounting.

But if you go back further, you could make the accounting look even worse (say back to when tax rates were up to 70% or 91%.). No one was/is expecting the rates to go to those levels. The question was whether the rates would rise to 39.6% for which taxpayers and how much revenue is left on the table by making permanent the Bush tax cuts from 2001/2003 and then extended by Obama in 2009 for everyone else.

173 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:24:48pm

re: #165 Kragar

Corporate Welfare Spending Hits $100 Billion in FY 2012

That’s what I found (Cato of all things, heh) and it doesn’t take into account extras like tax breaks etc. as well as the massively unknown lending (quantitative easing) that the large ‘banks’ get.

174 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:25:47pm

re: #173 Ghost of Tom Joad

I don’t think quantitative easing counts toward the budget.

Am I wrong?

175 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:26:02pm

Derpers gonna derp

176 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:26:58pm

ITS ABSOLUTELY HITLERIAN!

177 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:28:02pm

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

“I believe the best social program is a job”
-Ronald Reagan


One that pays no benefits and still entitles someone to food stamps.

178 darthstar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:28:15pm

Hey everyone…

Spent a couple of hours using the internet for something other than looking at cat pics…updated my resume and activated it on Dice.com. Within an hour, I’d had one call and two emails from different recruiters. Add that to the five companies I reached out to directly, and I’m up to eight job applications out and this is only the second day I’ve looked for a job…and two of the recruiters are putting me in front of the VP of engineering directly, so I’m feeling pretty good about it.

Oh, and I was smart enough to start a spreadsheet with company, contact names (where I have them), date of application, and any notes from conversations/emails so I won’t find myself making the mistake of confusing different opportunities when I’m on the phone.

I normally don’t reach out to that many companies at a time - in the past I’ve found juggling more than two companies always puts me at a disadvantage, as once offers start coming in you have to be willing to let one job go in a gamble that another company might come along with a better offer. Fortunately, two of the three recruiters have clients looking for the exact job I’m hoping for.

We’ll see what happens. I still need to reach out to people I’ve worked with who might know these executives personally.

179 blueraven  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:28:18pm

re: #176 Kragar

ITS ABSOLUTELY HITLERIAN!

What is really tragic is raising LIDS!

180 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:28:43pm

re: #165 Kragar

Corporate Welfare Spending Hits $100 Billion in FY 2012

That’s the John Birch Society.

181 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:29:35pm
182 erik_t  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:30:06pm

re: #176 Kragar

ITS ABSOLUTELY HITLERIAN!

That sounds pretty maoful.

183 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:30:40pm

re: #182 erik_t

He didn’t have a pol pot to piss in.

184 erik_t  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:31:50pm

re: #183 lawhawk

The GOP is going to make a real messolini of things if we don’t put our foot down.

185 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:31:51pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

That’s the John Birch Society.

Heh, the John Birch - impurify my precious bodily fluids - Society runs the tea party.

Maybe we can confuse them with their own lies.

Tell them to cut corporate welfare first.

186 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:35:07pm

re: #184 erik_t

The GOP is going to make a real messolini of things if we don’t put our foot down.

Francoly, I don’t give a damn…

187 stabby  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:35:15pm
188 Gus  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:36:06pm

You know. After listening to Leon Leyson from 2008 I have the sudden urge to punch someone in the face the next time they compare Obama to Hitler.

189 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:36:47pm

Eight Corporate Subsidies in the Fiscal Cliff Bill, From Goldman Sachs to Disney to NASCAR

Throughout the months of November and December, a steady stream of corporate CEOs flowed in and out of the White House to discuss the impending fiscal cliff. Many of them, such as Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs, would then publicly come out and talk about how modest increases of tax rates on the wealthy were reasonable in order to deal with the deficit problem. What wasn’t mentioned is what these leaders wanted, which is what’s known as “tax extenders”, or roughly $205B of tax breaks for corporations. With such a banal name, and boring and difficult to read line items in the bill, few political operatives have bothered to pay attention to this part of the bill. But it is critical to understanding what is going on.

The negotiations over the fiscal cliff involve more than the Democrats, Republicans, the middle class and the wealthy. The corporate sector is here in force as well. One of the core shifts in the Reagan era was the convergence of wealthy individuals who wanted to pay less in taxes – many from the growing South – with corporations that wanted tax breaks. Previously, these groups fought over the pie, because the idea of endless deficits did not make sense. Once Reagan figured out how to finance yawning deficits, the GOP was able to wield the corporate sector and the new sun state wealthy into one force, epitomized today by Grover Norquist. What Obama is (sort of) trying to do is split this coalition, and the extenders are the carrot he’s dangling in front of the corporate sector to do it.

Most tax credits drop straight to the bottom line – it’s why companies like Enron considered its tax compliance section a “profit center”. A few hundred billion dollars of tax expenditures is a major carrot to offer. Surely, a modest hike in income taxes for people who make more than $400k in income and stupid enough not to take that money in capital gain would be worth trading off for the few hundred billion dollars in corporate pork. This is what the fiscal cliff is about – who gets the money. And by leaving out the corporate sector, nearly anyone who talks about this debate is leaving out a key negotiating partner.

190 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:37:23pm

re: #188 Gus

You know. After listening to Leon Leyson from 2008 I have the sudden urge to punch someone in the face the next time they compare Obama to Hitler.

I have the same urge whenever anyone compares Hitler to anyone who did not murder millions and enslave millions more.

191 Kragar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:37:36pm

I see what you’re doing with all these puns. You guys are just Stalin for more time.

192 BongCrodny  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:41:11pm

re: #191 Kragar

I see what you’re doing with all these puns. You guys are just Stalin for more time.

As far as I’m concerned, they’re all hitler-or-miss.

193 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:42:13pm

It’s Assad way to ruin the thread…

194 abolitionist  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 12:45:23pm

re: #65 dragonfire1981

I don’t remember a single instance in the Bible of Jesus ever arming himself with a weapon.

IIRC, when he drove some professional profiteers from the Temple, he used a whip.

195 AntonSirius  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 1:47:13pm

re: #49 Vicious Babushka

Racism? What racism?

[Embedded content]

196 wilburs  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 1:54:37pm

re: #139 Kragar

Wyoming Lawmaker Introduces Radical ‘Fetal Heartbeat’ Bill To Ban Abortions After Six Weeks

Laserlike focus on the economy.

Great comment in the comment thread of that story

I propose a “fecal heartbeat law” which would allow piles of $hit like Kroeker to be flushed once it becomes clear that they are heartless.

197 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 1:54:51pm

re: #64 kirkspencer

Link

See page 25, where one reads that in 2011, the last year for which results, rather than estimates, are available, receipts were 15.4 percent of GDP, and outlays were 24.1 percent of GDP.

Increase 15.4 by 60 percent and you get 24.64, not far from 24.1.
There you go. Tax receipts for 2011 would have had to go up by sixty percent to cover outlays for 2011 and close the 2011 deficit.

If we’re going to peer into the future, anybody can construct a scenario. There isn’t any “work” to show. The default posture for calculating future revenues would naturally be that spending and taxation will continue more or less at current levels, apart from increases due to Obamacare and to having more people eligible for social security and other entitlement and transfer payment programs. So I expect that the deficit will not magically erase itself, or even much abate.

198 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 2:05:34pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

By the way, in all this talk about the deficit, it should be pointed out that the only reason we even HAVE a deficit can be laid squarely on the shoulders of George W. Bush, who ran up the country’s debt enormously during his two terms in office, turning a surplus into trillions of dollars in debt.

In fact, if you go back and look at the history of the US deficit, the ballooning of the debt correlates pretty closely with Republican presidents.

Furthermore, under W it is pretty clear that the GOP deliberately unbalanced the budget, especially with the wars and the tax cuts.

The reason to deliberately create a budget crisis is to provide cover for gutting social security and medicare.

199 AntonSirius  Mon, Jan 14, 2013 2:28:34pm

re: #155 sagehen

My evidence? You cannot name a single denomination that, when a member of the congregation suffers a miscarriage at 8 or 10 or 12 weeks, responds with a funeral. They do not have a memorial service, or a burial in consecrated ground, or any of the other ritual that normally attends the death of a human being.

This should be the first line of argument in any debate on the subject.

“When were you last at a memorial service for an eight week old fetus?”


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