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How Conservative Columnist George Will Lies With Statistics

Deception
Environment • Views: 30,504

Here’s an absolutely classic case of lying with statistics, as George Will abuses his position as a columnist for the Washington Post to shamelessly mislead his readers and disseminate deceptive climate change denial propaganda.

Will’s latest column makes a claim that’s true in a literal sense, but when examined more closely is nothing less than journalistic malpractice.

[President Obama] says that “the threat of climate change” is apparent in “raging fires,” “crippling drought” and “more powerful storms.” Are fires raging now more than ever? (There were a third fewer U.S. wildfires in 2012 than in 2006.)

Does it seem odd that George Will cherry-picked an arbitrary year (2006) to compare to last year?

There’s a reason for Will’s seemingly arbitrary choice, of course; when you look at the data from the National Interagency Fire Center over a longer timeframe, a very different picture emerges. David Appell graphed the data back to 1960, exposing the deception behind this denier’s claim:

Click to enlarge

As you can see, the trend is obvious: a severe increase in acreage burned over the last 20 years, and it’s accelerating dramatically. And it’s also obvious why George Will picked 2006 for his misleading comparison.

In the past, the Washington Post has refused to hold Will accountable for distortions just as egregious as this one, so I wouldn’t hold out hope for a correction or retraction.

Also see

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416 comments

1 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:28:58pm

That he’s one of the “sensible” conservatives is another lie.

2 Kragar  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:29:29pm

A republican and a democrat run a foot race. The democrat wins. George Wills headline: “Republican comes in second, Democrat next to last.”

3 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:30:44pm

If you framed this information in terms like batting averages, maybe Will would understand it.

4 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:32:27pm

Trend and variation

5 Kid A  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:32:38pm

Another reason to never wear a bow tie.

6 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:33:22pm

I’d love to know if Will came up with this talking point himself, or if it was fed to him by one of the right wing propaganda outfits.

7 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:34:13pm

He has so many to choose from.

8 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:34:45pm

Dear George,

Greenland is Green.

Have you noticed?

(BTW, it used to be Ice)

Sincerely,

Google Earth.

9 Kid A  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:35:13pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

I’d love to know if Will came up with this talking point himself, or if it was fed to him by one of the right wing propaganda outfits.

Sounds like something right from the King of Derp himself, Dim Hoft.

10 stabby  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:36:36pm

Very good, Charles.

11 Kid A  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:37:58pm

re: #3 dragonath

If you framed this information in terms like batting averages, maybe Will would understand it.

I think all of the Chicago Cubs’ seasons of misery have finally driven Will to the Grey Goose and bad crazy GOP talking points.

12 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:42:33pm
[Obamacare] and other regulatory burdens, combined with the subsidization of not working (47.5 million people receiving food stamps, 8.6 million receiving disability payments, unemployment benefits extended from 26 weeks to 73 weeks — so far), partially explain this fact provided by Richard Vedder of the American Enterprise Institute: “If today the country had the same proportion of persons of working age employed as it did in 2000, the U.S. would have almost 14 million more people contributing to the economy.” Fourteen million is more than the combined workforces of 18 states.

George also forgets that people who receive “subsidization” (disability payments and unemployment benefits) do contribute to the economy by spending almost all they’re receiving.

13 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:44:32pm

WaPo needs to spin off their pundit columnists to a separate venue. I find myself thinking twice about clicking WaPo links with intriguing titles because all too often it’s just a stupid Jenifer Rubin article.

14 lawhawk  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:44:55pm

7 of the highest acreage burned years have occurred in the past decade.

Put another way, if you look at years in which 5m+ acres burned, there were 17 such times since 1960. 9 of them have been 2000 and after.

The size of the fires has increased as well. If you use the selector to find years where the average fire size was greater than 100 acres (indicating severity of fires), then you’ll see that all of those fires have happened since 2004 and none before.

The number of fires has generally declined, but severity has increased. Policy may be affecting those figures, but current fire policy is to suppress fires started by arson/manmade sources and to let naturally occurring fires burn unless they’re going to affect manmade structures/lives. Severe weather (like drought now seen through much of the country’s middle section) makes the likelihood of fire that much greater.

15 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:45:04pm

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. Benjamin Disraeli

16 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:46:30pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

I’d love to know if Will came up with this talking point himself, or if it was fed to him by one of the right wing propaganda outfits.

Probably but as Fareed Zacharia reminds us, these pundits are their own little think tanks with a handful of interns and research assistants to do the work for them.

17 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:47:44pm

re: #1 Amory Blaine

That he’s one of the “sensible” conservatives is another lie.

Actually he really is - the rest are really that much worse…

18 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:50:39pm

Ha…

I like how the picture that links to his column is a smog infested city.

19 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:54:06pm

Someone else made this same dumb assertion not so long ago. There are less fire incidents since 1960 however the acreage has gone up.

20 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:54:20pm

Recipe Wishful thinking for conservative revival”

21 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:58:17pm
22 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:59:37pm

re: #21 FemNaziBitch

Is that a leek?

23 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:00:00pm

Dkos accuses the Obama regime of killing hacker
(Updated) Anonymous Takes Over Government Website, Advises It Will Release Files

Two weeks ago today, a line was crossed. Two weeks ago today, Aaron Swartz was killed. Killed because he faced an impossible choice. Killed because he was forced into playing a game he could not win — a twisted and distorted perversion of justice — a game where the only winning move was not to play.

Some in the comments are worried that Bradley Manning may suffer the same fate

His death shocked me. I had actually been expecting to hear Bradley Manning had suicided.

24 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:01:15pm

re: #21 FemNaziBitch

Garlic agave chicken?

25 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:02:42pm

re: #24 jaunte

Is that an agave plant?

26 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:04:15pm

re: #25 PhillyPretzel

Just a wild guess on my part.

27 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:05:29pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Dkos accuses the Obama regime of killing hacker
(Updated) Anonymous Takes Over Government Website, Advises It Will Release Files

Some in the comments are worried that Bradley Manning may suffer the same fate

Well, to be fair ’ Dartagnan’ posted that to mend fences. Other people who post on the Kos pointed out that he’d named himself after a Musketeer and was thus promoting gun violence. If he hadn’t written this loony story they would have taken away his Liberal Card.

/Must I?

28 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:05:39pm

re: #26 jaunte

That is how I came up with leek. GGT Please tell us what you are going to be enjoying for dinner.

29 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:06:26pm

re: #28 PhillyPretzel

That is how I came up with leek. GGT Please tell us what you are going to be enjoying.

Homemade Potato/Leek/Garlic Soup.

30 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:07:00pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Aaron Swartz did a lot of great things that helped make the Internet a better place - I have much more sympathy for him than Bradley Manning. I’ve used tools created by Aaron Swartz at LGF. Every time you read an RSS feed you’re using something he helped create.

He was ridiculously smart, and from all accounts a really decent guy, and he was driven to suicide by a vindictive politically-motivated prosecutor. What happened to him is a damned shame.

31 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:07:18pm

re: #29 FemNaziBitch

Homemade Potato/Leek/Garlic Soup.

and it is most excellent!

Tomorrow it will be better. :)

32 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:07:26pm

re: #29 FemNaziBitch

Enjoy.

33 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:12:44pm
34 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:14:22pm

re: #33 FemNaziBitch

New England Clam Chowder?

35 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:15:05pm

re: #33 FemNaziBitch

Second Cup!

Potato/Leek/Garlic Soup!

36 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:15:50pm

re: #35 FemNaziBitch

Ahh I see. You have crackers with it. okay.

37 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:16:56pm

re: #36 PhillyPretzel

Ahh I see. You have crackers with it. okay.

I like the salt.

I know,
it’s bad.

38 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:18:40pm

From that link:

Normally I don’t agree with such methodoligy - but Anonymous has touched my sense of justice often this past year. Simply put - I believe they are right.

I’ve been extremely ambivalent about them after a picture of someone I was friendly with in school had his corpse posted freely on the chans. Illegally obtained from the coroner. No charges were ever pressed.

These guys don’t do morality.

39 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:21:50pm

re: #38 dragonath

From that link:

I’ve been extremely ambivalent about them after a picture of someone I was friendly with in school had his corpse posted freely on the chans. Illegally obtained from the coroner. No charges were ever pressed.

These guys don’t do morality.

And their attempt to embarrass the government won’t do what they think it will. They’ll hurt some people, but they’ll all be low and mid-level people. Both parties will close ranks and the higher ups won’t be touched.

40 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:31:06pm

Oh my, it seems I broke the thread.

41 EPR-radar  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:31:51pm

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

And their attempt to embarrass the government won’t do what they think it will. They’ll hurt some people, but they’ll all be low and mid-level people. Both parties will close ranks and the higher ups won’t be touched.

If Anonymous actually manages to effectively expose any big fish at all, I’ll be very surprised.

If they were to expose the deep network of corruption that undoubtedly exists between Wall Street and DC (both parties), I’d even approve of that.

42 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:34:11pm
43 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:35:53pm

re: #38 dragonath

From that link:

I’ve been extremely ambivalent about them after a picture of someone I was friendly with in school had his corpse posted freely on the chans. Illegally obtained from the coroner. No charges were ever pressed.

These guys don’t do morality.

I think the “morality” of Anon just doesn’t translate into a coherent philosophy. Occasional good deeds don’t make a viable political movement. Anon appeals to the fringe lefties for the same reason as Ron Paul and 9-11 truthers. It’s an impulse that people would be wise to avoid.

44 Mattand  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:36:51pm

re: #38 dragonath

From that link:

I’ve been extremely ambivalent about them after a picture of someone I was friendly with in school had his corpse posted freely on the chans. Illegally obtained from the coroner. No charges were ever pressed.

These guys don’t do morality.

That sucks about your friend. My big problem with Anonymous is that it’s a real “who watches the watchmen” situation. I’m not real comfortable with a group that might destroy your digital life because you may not agree with them on a subject.

For every protest of Scientology, there’s an attack on a 13 year old girl, just for the lulz. I’m not a fan of mob justice, whether on the net or in meat space.

45 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:37:00pm

re: #41 EPR-radar

If Anonymous actually manages to effectively expose any big fish at all, I’ll be very surprised.

If they were to expose the deep network of corruption that undoubtedly exists between Wall Street and DC (both parties), I’d even approve.

Even if they did find such a thing, it would do very little. The public would be angry for a little while but the issue wouldn’t be pushed out of fear of starting another recession.

46 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:43:57pm

Hey Dark OT question but it is a slow thread, Scott Walker recently showed some interest in breaking up his states electoral college vote distributing system, do you as LGF’s sanest republican have any comments?

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

47 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:47:31pm

re: #44 Mattand

That sucks about your friend. My big problem with Anonymous is that it’s a real “who watches the watchmen” situation. I’m not real comfortable with a with a group that might destroy your digital life because you may not agree with them on a subject.

For every protest of Scientology, there’s an attack on a 13 year old girl, NSF for the lulz. I’m not a fan of mob justice, whether on the net or in meat space.

Yeah, this.

Someone at kos gets it:

people deciding with consequence what should be private and what shouldn’t be concerns me greatly.

this is the issue i have with manning - a case that is far different from aaron schwartz. schwartz downloaded what was available to be read - manning just dumped without consideration of whether there would be real damage done.

anonymous seeks “vengeance”, imho, and that is a serious concern. retaliation and revenge often don’t care what collateral damage is done.

releasing justice dept material jeopardizes more than the few people it might embarrass - it compromises the integrity of the system.

not everything should be totally “open”, as some seem to believe. how does “everybody has a right to know everything” differ from the government intrusion into our privacy?

breaking the law “anonymously” doesn’t get the laws changed that are wrong - it just divides people.

I can’t add a whole lot to that- but if justice has to be delivered extrajudiciously, then it isn’t operating by the rule of law- at least not in the way we understand it.

48 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:48:07pm

re: #46 jamesfirecat

Hey Dark OT question but it is a slow thread, Scott Walker recently showed some interest in breaking up his states electoral college vote distributing system, do you as LGF’s sanest republican have any comments?

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

Walker seemed pretty non-committal in those remarks.

49 freetoken  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:48:12pm

Statistics, like probability, like the entire field of quantitative thinking, is hard.

Or, at least it takes some practice to not be deceived.

Cherry picking is a classic argument tactic, and George Will by now knows the entire closet of such tactics for his polemical trade.

50 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:49:25pm

re: #48 Dark_Falcon

Walker seemed pretty non-committal in those remarks.

Yes, non committal as opposed to the governor of Virginia who promptly dismissed the idea outright.


Either way, what do YOU think of the idea?

51 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:51:49pm

re: #44 Mattand

That sucks about your friend. My big problem with Anonymous is that it’s a real “who watches the watchmen” situation. I’m not real comfortable with a with a group that might destroy your digital life because you may not agree with them on a subject.

For every protest of Scientology, there’s an attack on a 13 year old girl, NSF for the lulz. I’m not a fan of mob justice, whether on the net or in meat space.

They are essentially amoral. it’s not so much the attack on a 13 year old girl that bothers me but the potential to shut down power grids, industrial infrastructure sabotage, hacking banks or financial institutions, leaking military secrets, etc. They have a lot of technological know how with the mentality of children. They are potentially very dangerous. A proverbial jet powered monkey navigated ICBM.

52 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:52:27pm

re: #50 jamesfirecat

Yes, non committal as opposed to the governor of Virginia who promptly dismissed the idea outright.

Either way, what do YOU think of the idea?

I’d only favor it together with the elimination of gerrymandering in the states that adopted it.

53 jaunte  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:53:11pm

re: #49 freetoken

Blending natural gas production and the Keystone bitumen pipeline into the same paragraph as if they’re exactly the same is pretty dishonest, too.

54 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:53:16pm

re: #50 jamesfirecat

Yes, non committal as opposed to the governor of Virginia who promptly dismissed the idea outright.

Either way, what do YOU think of the idea?

How are you doing James?

55 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:54:08pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

I’d only favor it together with the elimination of gerrymandering in the states that adopted it.

What do you think of the current GOP plan which seems to favor just the promotional EC vote distribution and no gerrymandering reductions at all, and seemingly only in states that Obama won?

56 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:55:21pm

re: #54 HoosierHoops

How are you doing James?

Decent went 3-1 at magic prerelease today though to my shame mom managed to go 3-0-1

(That is I got three wins one loss she had three wins and a draw)

57 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:55:42pm

re: #55 jamesfirecat

What do you think of the current GOP plan which seems to favor just the promotional EC vote distribution and no gerrymandering reductions at all, and seemingly only in states that Obama won?

I oppose it, because of my anti-gerrymandering views. Further rewarding gerrymandering is a very bad idea, IMO.

58 Varek Raith  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:56:02pm

If the Va gop plan were in place for the last election, Obama would’ve recieved 31% of the EVs while Romney would’ve gotten 69%.

59 freetoken  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:56:48pm

re: #53 jaunte

The business in which George Will engages himself is “pretty dishonest”.

Real analysis - gathering of data and exploring what it means - is not the province of pundits, those whose purpose is merely to repeat to their readers what they want to hear.

60 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 6:58:26pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

I oppose it, because of my anti-gerrymandering views. Further rewarding gerrymandering is a very bad idea, IMO.

Thank you.

My respect for you would have plunged through the basement into.subbwsement (also known as swimming pool and workout gym) levels if you had any tuck with this plan to try and gerrymander presidential elections.

It is as hoplessly rotten as if democrats tried to cut out a piece of Maryland and make it a part of Virginia….

61 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:01:01pm

When mainstream high-profile outlets like the Washington Post allow George Will to spread blatant disinformation about such vitally important issues, we’re through the looking glass, people.

62 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:06:08pm

re: #61 Charles Johnson

When mainstream high-profile outlets like the Washington Post allow George Will to spread blatant disinformation about such vitally important issues, we’re through the looking glass, people.

George Will has been spreading anti-AGW BS for a few years. The comparing of two single years without looking at the trend is a frequently used lie by the paid shills of energy companies.

63 freetoken  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:06:25pm

re: #61 Charles Johnson

I suspect the WaPo, as a company, has pretty much accepted its fate of having to be a carrier for pretty much anything that can sell. Long gone are the days of newspaper owners and editors who had their goals and values which they imposed on their enterprise. In the old days that was sometimes bad - yellow journalism for sure. But there were always those, even in WaPo’s history, who acted as if journalism was the most important thing a paper could do, and that journalism first and foremost meant reporting what best could be determined as true.

The owner likes to claim the heritage of his ancestors, but in the age of the internet the WaPo has become like the rest - doing whatever it takes to get web hits and advertising dollars.

65 stabby  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:07:36pm

re: #54 HoosierHoops

I think he refused to dismiss it till it was dead, then he jumped on the bandwagon.

66 b_sharp  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:15:36pm

The use of two cherry picked points in an inherently noisy system allows the deceiver(s) to build a straw structure without being obvious. Scientists have never said that temps, or the side-effects of specific temps, have to act in an upwardly ratcheting manner, yet that can be implied by comparing a recent low point with a previous high point. It also makes the noise in the system replace the trend as the most important factor in people’s minds. It in fact imposes a conflation of trend and noise.

67 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:31:39pm

re: the OP:

George Will isn’t making any claims at all. He’s just telling us how he’s personally different from Barack Obama, because this differentiation is extremely important to him.

Read it a couple of times; you’ll see (or not).

OR: never mind.

68 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:32:06pm

re: #60 jamesfirecat

Thank you.

My respect for you would have plunged through the basement into.subbwsement (also known as swimming pool and workout gym) levels if you had any tuck with this plan to try and gerrymander presidential elections.

It is as hoplessly rotten as if democrats tried to cut out a piece of Maryland and make it a part of Virginia….

Were such a plan put into place in a state where the congressional districts were not gerrymandered, it would have a good number of things to recommend it. Emplaced alongside gerrymandering, its just another form of screwjob.

69 sagehen  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:54:08pm

re: #68 Dark_Falcon

Were such a plan put into place in a state where the congressional districts were not gerrymandered, it would have a good number of things to recommend it. Emplaced alongside gerrymandering, its just another form of screwjob.

Even without gerrymandered congressional districts, it would still suck — all the sparsely populated states (which are already disproportionately represented in the electoral college) would still be winner take all, and the big states with big cities would have their bloc votes diminished. If Cali went 33-22, or NY 19-10, then the Dakotas/Wyoming/Alaska would outweigh either of them even with such drastically smaller populations.

70 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:57:10pm

re: #69 sagehen

Even without gerrymandered congressional districts, it would still suck — all the sparsely populated states (which are already disproportionately represented in the electoral college) would still be winner take all, and the big states with big cities would have their bloc votes diminished. If Cali went 33-22, or NY 19-10, then the Dakotas/Wyoming/Alaska would outweigh either of them even with such drastically smaller populations.

Which wouldn’t be so bad. It would also force presidential candidates to campaign in more states than just 10-12 ‘battlegrounds’. That alone is a major point in its favor.

71 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:02:51pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

Which wouldn’t be so bad. It would also force presidential candidates to campaign in more states than just 10-12 ‘battlegrounds’. That alone is a major point in its favor.

If you want to do that, lets just do away with the EC all together, that has the added benefit of making it flat out impossible to gerrymander presidential elections while still allowing every vote to count instead of a fee previous swing voters in a few precious states?

72 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:03:49pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

What if there’s there’s a blue dog or something who has an axe to grind against his party’s candidate? Or a Democrat in a majority Republican district?

Presidential elections are bad enough, but they’d be even more insane if the candidates have to compete across 200+ congressional districts and demand complete party line discipline across each one of them.

73 sagehen  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:05:02pm

Those 10-12 battlegrounds are the purplest states, and they’re not eternal — every few cycles there’s a shift. California used to be a major battleground (until Gov Pete Wilson turned it solidly blue with his aggressively anti-Hispanic agenda), NY at one time (until the “real America” crusaders decided that only rural voters matter) — maybe if R’s gave a damn about cities again they could purple up some of the densely populated places.

As I’ve already stated, the rural states are already disproportionately weighted, as the country’s population move more and more into the cities, it would be a travesty to exponentially increase their weight. (unless you want all the states to go proportional — I’m sure liberals get at least 1/3 of the vote in each of those 3-EV states.)

74 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:07:04pm

re: #73 sagehen

Those 10-12 battlegrounds are the purplest states, and they’re not eternal — every few cycles there’s a shift. California used to be a major battleground (until Gov Pete Wilson turned it solidly blue with his aggressively anti-Hispanic agenda), NY at one time (until the “real America” crusaders decided that only rural voters matter) — maybe if R’s gave a damn about cities again they could purple up some of the densely populated places.

As I’ve already stated, the rural states are already disproportionately weighted, as the country’s population move more and more into the cities, it would be a travesty to exponentially increase their weight. (unless you want all the states to go proportional — I’m sure liberals get at least 1/3 of the vote in each of those 3-EV states.)

We would also get at least ten to Texas’ 34.

Like I said, I am fine with doing current system or national public vote, but ev based on districts seems like a system with way too many opportunities to exploits.

75 Shvaughn  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:08:59pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Dkos accuses the Obama regime of killing hacker
(Updated) Anonymous Takes Over Government Website, Advises It Will Release Files

The quote you listed is in blockquotes on the Daily Kos diary post. How exactly do you get that “Dkos” is accusing the Obama regime of killing anyone?

This is gross and dishonest misleading even for you.

76 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:09:18pm

Inside of a Leek.

In case, you know, you were wondering.

77 makeitstop  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:11:00pm

Anybody else watching ‘Ripper Street’ on BBC America? This may be my favorite new show.

78 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:14:05pm

I’m listening to Methuselah’s Children by Robert Heinlein.

79 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:16:27pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

Which wouldn’t be so bad. It would also force presidential candidates to campaign in more states than just 10-12 ‘battlegrounds’. That alone is a major point in its favor.

Actually DF now that I think about it allow me to explain why district based Eectoral vote allocation is unfair even without direct gerrymandering Democrats tend to win urban areas, republicans tend to win rural areas, as America is not a warhammer 40k forgeworld it is made up of more rural areas than urban ones. Those urban ones however have a great many more democrats in them the rural areas have total people, because you can pack a lot of people shoulder to shoulder in an urban environment. This difference is telling when you do Electoral vites based on state or look at the entire popular vote, but not so much if you were to do it by district.

There is no “fair ” way to give out electoral votes based on district, even without deliberate gerrymandering, the end result would still favor republicans more than democrats.

80 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:17:35pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

America is not a warhammer 40k forgeworld

I’m stealing that

81 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:20:24pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

Actually DF now that I think about it allow me to explain why district based Eectoral vote allocation is unfair even it’s out direct jerrymwndering. Democrats tend to win urban areas, republicans tend to win rural areas, as America is not a warhammer 40k forgeworld it is made up of more rural areas than urban ones. Those urban ones however have a great many more democrats in them transistors rural areas have total people, because you can pack a lot of people Viking shoulder to shoulder in an urban environment. This difference is telling when you do Electoral vites based on state or look at the entire popular vote, but not so much if you were to do it by district.

There is no “fair ” way to give out electoral votes bad on district, even without deliberate gerrymandering the end result would still favor republicans more than democrats.

I think you mean Hive World, James.

82 Shvaughn  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:21:44pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Dkos accuses the Obama regime of killing hacker
(Updated) Anonymous Takes Over Government Website, Advises It Will Release Files

Two weeks ago today, a line was crossed. Two weeks ago today, Aaron Swartz was killed. Killed because he faced an impossible choice. Killed because he was forced into playing a game he could not win — a twisted and distorted perversion of justice — a game where the only winning move was not to play.

Some in the comments are worried that Bradley Manning may suffer the same fate

For serious, Trout. I can’t believe how blatantly dishonest you are being here with what you wrote. You are outright lying about what the poster on DailyKos wrote. I had thought that, despite all your many flaws, you were better than that and had more respect for the readers of this blog.

The “Two weeks ago today” paragraph was written by Anonymous, and the Dkos poster was simply reporting it, in a properly marked blockquote. Dkos is no more suggesting that Schwarz was killed by Obama than you were by quoting the same paragraph.

I thought you had at least a little integrity, but this is just outright lying.

Care to respond, Trout?

83 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:21:45pm
84 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:23:50pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

Hive World

Honestly a forgeworld

[Link: warhammer40k.wikia.com…]

Gets my general point of a highly urbanized society across just as well.

85 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:26:38pm

re: #78 FemNaziBitch

I’m listening to Methuselah’s Children by Robert Heinlein.

That one is interesting. It’s a key block in his “future history” series of stories and novels. Time Enough For Love, for all it’s weirdness, is a direct sequel to it.

86 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:27:28pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

This post needs spelling and grammar revisions.

87 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:30:23pm

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

This post needs spelling and grammar revisions.

I plead posting on an iPad and made some revisions,

88 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:38:22pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

Actually DF now that I think about it allow me to explain why district based Eectoral vote allocation is unfair even without direct gerrymandering Democrats tend to win urban areas, republicans tend to win rural areas, as America is not a warhammer 40k forgeworld it is made up of more rural areas than urban ones. Those urban ones however have a great many more democrats in them the rural areas have total people, because you can pack a lot of people shoulder to shoulder in an urban environment. This difference is telling when you do Electoral vites based on state or look at the entire popular vote, but not so much if you were to do it by district.

There is no “fair ” way to give out electoral votes based on district, even without deliberate gerrymandering, the end result would still favor republicans more than democrats.

Thank you for the revision. Given the current electoral advantage the Dems have, I’d not mind cutting it down in that fashion, as long the districts were drawn fairly. Congressional districts within do have to be roughly even in terms of their population.

89 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:39:35pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for the revision. Given the current electoral advantage the Dems have, I’d not mind cutting it down in that fashion, as long the districts were drawn fairly. Congressional districts within do have to be roughly even in terms of their population.

What electoral advantage do you see the dems having?

90 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:40:33pm

re: #89 jamesfirecat

What electoral advantage do you see the dems having?

There’s more of them, duh.

91 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:41:58pm

re: #89 jamesfirecat

What electoral advantage do you see the dems having?

New York and California, for starters. But I’m going to step away for a bit. I might be back tonight, but I also might not.

92 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:47:51pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

New York and California, for starters. But I’m going to step away for a bit. I might be back tonight, but I also might not.

Republicans have Texas (at least for now) rest of the south minus Flordia.


Democrats having more people int he most populous states is not an “advantage” it is naturally occurring result of the democratic parties appeal to urban voters who tend to be more aware of how many important services the government can provide such as public transportation which is how I have gotten to and from work for the last two years running.


Stick with the system as it is or drop the electoral college entirely entirely anything else is just going to give the republicans an unfair advantage and making it easier for someone to win the popular vote while loosing the electoral college is not going to be good for the country.

93 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:49:42pm

Calumet Specialty Products considers Lake Superior crude oil loading dock

The oil boom taking place across the northern Great Plains may soon make its way to the waters of the Great Lakes.

Petroleum refiner Calumet Specialty Products Partners is exploring whether to build a crude oil loading dock on Lake Superior, near its Superior, Wis., refinery, to ship crude oil on the Great Lakes and through connecting waterways, the company said Friday.

94 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:50:38pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

Dark, even if Queens, Bronx, Kings, and New York County were eliminated from the map, Democrats would still have won New York.

95 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:50:45pm
96 wrenchwench  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:51:30pm

re: #93 Amory Blaine

Calumet Specialty Products considers Lake Superior crude oil loading dock

That should help with that pesky zebra mussel invasion.

97 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:52:30pm

Of course, the asian carp will adapt./

98 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:54:38pm

Pagani Zonda R

99 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:55:32pm

re: #93 Amory Blaine

Calumet Specialty Products considers Lake Superior crude oil loading dock

I’ll step back in to note that any such dock will need to be kept under a tight regulatory eye. I’m not fond of the thought of seeing an oil slick on Lake Michigan (Chicago is the transhipment point between the Great Lakes and the Mississippi).

100 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 8:56:34pm

Ferrari FXX EVO

101 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:04:21pm

Tennessee state senator: Reduce welfare payments to families if children don’t do well in school

A Tennessee state senator has come up with what I believe is a first: Republican State Sen. Stacey Campfield of Knoxville proposes to cut welfare benefits to parents whose children don’t make “satisfactory academic progress” in school.

Campfield believes that his bill would compel parents to work harder to ensure their kids excel in school. As you might imagine, his Senate Bill 1312 is triggering a lot of comment.

102 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:10:28pm

re: #92 jamesfirecat

Republicans have Texas (at least for now) rest of the south minus Flordia.

Democrats having more people int he most populous states is not an “advantage” it is naturally occurring result of the democratic parties appeal to urban voters who tend to be more aware of how many important services the government can provide such as public transportation which is how I have gotten to and from work for the last two years running.

Stick with the system as it is or drop the electoral college entirely entirely anything else is just going to give the republicans an unfair advantage and making it easier for someone to win the popular vote while loosing the electoral college is not going to be good for the country.

Oh Jesus, Dark is right. The EC currently does give Democrats an advantage, it produced a 61 percent win from a 51 percent popular vote, and it’s only going to get more lopsided as states like Texas and Arizona alter demographically. Just because something is naturally occurring doesn’t mean it’s not an advantage or that it doesn’t have every potential of handing the Dems a victory even if they lose the popular vote in the future.

What the GOP is proposing is fundamentally hypocritical and unprincipled, but that’s not really an excuse for denying the fundamental structural bias that currently exists in the EC and only looks likely to grow greater. We really should move to a popular vote, that would be the most democratic solution.

103 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:12:12pm

re: #101 Amory Blaine

This guy is a real genius. Via Wiki:

……he stated “most people realize that AIDS came from the homosexual community – it was one guy screwing a monkey, if I recall correctly, and then having sex with men. It was an airline pilot, if I recall…. My understanding is that it is virtually – not completely, but virtually – impossible to contract AIDS through heterosexual sex…very rarely [transmitted].”[28][29] He later quoted the odds of heterosexual vaginal transmission at 1 in 5 million.

104 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:23:10pm
105 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:29:25pm

Funny to see posts about that slime from TN. At another site I saw reference to this:
[Link: www.wbir.com…]

A downtown Knoxville restaurant owner says she was taking a stand for the gay community when she asked State Senator Stacey Campfield to leave her restaurant.

Campfield is under fire for comments he made last week on a Sirius XM radio program. On the Michelangelo Signorile Show, the Knoxville senator said that the HIV epidemic came from a single gay airline employee having sexual relations with a monkey and that it is “virtually impossible” for AIDS to be transmitted during heterosexual sex. Experts say both of those claims are false.

On Sunday, Campfield was asked to leave the Bistro at the Bijou restaurant on Gay Street.

106 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:38:15pm
107 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:39:32pm

Or how about this:

Expanding in a telephone interview on comments made in his blog posts from the convention, the Knoxville lawmaker on Wednesday said the Black Caucus is a “segregationist organization” that should be ignored, just as Sen. Jim Summerville, R-Dickson, suggested in a controversial email.

That email, sent to Rep. Barbara Cooper, D-Memphis, with a request that she forward it to other members of the Black Caucus, said: “I don’t give a rat’s ass what the Black Caucus thinks.” He was responding to a Black Caucus comments on a Senate subcommittee report.

[Link: www.knoxnews.com…]

108 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:42:31pm

Gary Husband on the keyboards. Associated acts…

Gary Husband’s Force Majeure
Gary Husband’s Drive
John McLaughlin
Allan Holdsworth
Mike Stern
Jack Bruce
Robin Trower
Billy Cobham
Level 42
UK

109 prairiefire  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:45:31pm

Nakima the chimp lived in a home for 29 years. Now she lives at a primate shelter in Wales and won’t go out into the chilly cold without her blanket~[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

110 Gus  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:46:30pm

Billy Cobham…

Miles Davis
George Duke
Mahavishnu Orchestra
Jack Bruce
New York Jazz Quartet
Jazz Is Dead
Bobby and the Midnites
Mark-Almond

Jazz is Dead once featured T Lavitz who used to play keyboards for the Dixie Dregs/Dregs. Taught a class at Berklee School of Music. He passed away in 2010. Just found that out last night. Saw the Dregs 5 times in my life. Was a fun time.

T Lavitz played with…

Dixie Dregs
Jazz Is Dead
Jefferson Starship
Widespread Panic

111 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 9:53:28pm

Jumping into the EC debate. One of the biggest selling points of the EC is that it gives a definitive winner. Yes, the winner typically gets an outsized share of the EC versus their popular vote. That’s actually a good thing. (Do you think Reagan should have gotten 525 EVs? Or HW Bush win 426? Does that mean the Republicans have an inherent EC advantage?) Nope. Neither does Obama winning 332.

Can you imagine a razor thin popular election and no EC? It would make 2000 look like a walk in the park.

The truth is, Despite the slight advantage given to small states with the Electoral College, I’d rather take that over a direct election.

112 sagehen  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:01:19pm

re: #77 makeitstop

Anybody else watching ‘Ripper Street’ on BBC America? This may be my favorite new show.

I see I can catch up from the beginning, starting in an hour.

CONVINCE ME IT’S WORTH WAITING UP FOR.

113 Targetpractice  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:05:50pm

re: #111 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

Jumping into the EC debate. One of the biggest selling points of the EC is that it gives a definitive winner. Yes, the winner typically gets an outsized share of the EC versus their popular vote. That’s actually a good thing. (Do you think Reagan should have gotten 525 EVs? Or HW Bush win 426? Does that mean the Republicans have an inherent EC advantage?) Nope. Neither does Obama winning 332.

Can you imagine a razor thin popular election and no EC? It would make 2000 look like a walk in the park.

The truth is, Despite the slight advantage given to small states with the Electoral College, I’d rather take that over a direct election.

A direct election where we want weeks or months to get the final tally…or an EC that can be generally figured out the same night. Decisions, decisions….

114 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:06:33pm

re: #111 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

(Do you think Reagan should have gotten 525 EVs? Or HW Bush win 426? Does that mean the Republicans have an inherent EC advantage?) Nope. Neither does Obama winning 332.

I’ve heard this argument a lot, that basically the last thirty plus years of the nation’s evolving demographics are somehow irrelevant and that these results don’t indicate a pretty obvious trend line. It could just as easily be rephrased, “yeah if the Republicans can somehow take California and Illinois they’re probably going to win or something.”

115 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:09:21pm

Well, if this country ever does go all popular vote, there had better be a national effort against voter suppression, or we’re going to be where we started.

116 sagehen  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:15:11pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

I’ve heard this argument a lot, that basically the last thirty plus years of the nation’s evolving demographics are somehow irrelevant and that these results don’t indicate a pretty obvious trend line. It’s could just as easily be rephrased, “yeah if the Republicans can somehow take California and Illinois they’re probably going to win or something.”

There have been times, not all that long ago, that the Republicans *did* take California and/or Illinois. As I mentioned above, Cali was a very purple swing state until Pete Wilson.

As the Republicans get more and more right-wing, they’re losing the cities. Lighten up a bit on the culture war issues, and they’ll get them back — plenty of New Yorkers and Angelenos are right of center on foreign policy and taxes/business, but they also throw up at the idea that white male christian heterosexuals should be considered the be-all and end-all of American cultural values.

117 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:32:31pm

re: #116 sagehen

As the Republicans get more and more right-wing, they’re losing the cities. Lighten up a bit on the culture war issues, and they’ll get them back — plenty of New Yorkers and Angelenos are right of center on foreign policy and taxes/business, but they also throw up at the idea that white male christian heterosexuals should be considered the be-all and end-all of American cultural values.

Yeah, I just don’t see the Republican’s doing that any time in the foreseeable future. The business conservatives will split and form a third party before that happens, and depending on how things work out they might eventually attract enough Blue Dogs to make things interesting.

118 makeitstop  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 10:33:29pm

re: #112 sagehen

I see I can catch up from the beginning, starting in an hour.

CONVINCE ME IT’S WORTH WAITING UP FOR.

Absolutely. Cop drama set in 1880s London, six months after the Jack The Ripper murders. Characters are well-played, and the seamy side of life in London is on full display. The cops are barely in control of the area under their jurisdiction, and they make interesting use of technological advances of the time, such as moving pictures in the first episode and the emerging science of autopsy in the second.

119 Mich-again  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:04:45pm

And as more tracts of land burn there will be less acres available to burn out next year so that chart is misleading altogether.

120 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:05:18pm

I’ve enjoyed today..cold outside so Winston and I have been watching past Superbowls.. We are up to Superbowl 20 something.
relaxing kick back day for the dog and I.
Hope today finds you well

121 Mich-again  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:08:43pm

Like I have said a thousand times, test the logic with an extreme example..

So if every single square foot of land in the entire US burned down to the dirt one year there would be absolutely nothing left to burn the following year. The chart would be sky-high and then the amount of acres burned would go to 0. In the opinion of George Will that would be a sign that everything was fine and dandy. He is an idiot in a bow tie, the worst kind.

122 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:14:48pm

re: #121 Mich-again

Like I have said a thousand times, test the logic with an extreme example..

So if every single square foot of land in the entire US burned down to the dirt one year there would be absolutely nothing left to burn the following year. The chart would be sky-high and then the amount of acres burned would go to 0. In the opinion of George Will that would be a sign that everything was fine and dandy. He is an idiot in a bow tie, the worst kind.

I don’t like extreme examples. There is always the exception to the rule.

123 Mich-again  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:18:06pm

re: #122 HoosierHoops

I don’t like extreme examples. There is always the exception to the rule.

Many if not most people subscribe to the notion that if a little is good, a lot is better. That is why I like to test their logic to the extreme example.

124 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:21:45pm

re: #123 Mich-again

Many if not most people subscribe to the notion that if a little is good, a lot is better. That is why I like to test their logic to the extreme example.

LOL What up brother? I’m close to SB25 or something. The NFL network rocks this time of year..

125 dragonath  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:29:29pm

And now for something completely different:

126 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:36:52pm

re: #124 HoosierHoops

LOL What up brother? I’m close to SB25 or something. The NFL network rocks this time of year..

LOL..I checked and I’m only up to SB20 right now…It’s been in the background all day.

127 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:45:58pm

re: #121 Mich-again

Like I have said a thousand times, test the logic with an extreme example..

So if every single square foot of land in the entire US burned down to the dirt one year there would be absolutely nothing left to burn the following year. The chart would be sky-high and then the amount of acres burned would go to 0. In the opinion of George Will that would be a sign that everything was fine and dandy. He is an idiot in a bow tie, the worst kind.

There was a famous anti-global warming piece a while back when a British newspaper seized on a quote from a climate scientist that there was “no statistically significant” global warming since 1995”.

They jumped on it as proof of the “hoax”. They were either ignorant or intentionally deceltive: the scientificic meaning of “statistically significant” means “99+% certainty”, whereas the data from the period dating from 1995-present was only 95% certain, and if you extended the period under observation back by a few years, it was over 99% certain.

This is along the lines of the “Evolution is only a theory” argument.

128 CriticalDragon1177  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:46:23pm

Charles Johnson,

I rejected climate change denial years ago, even before I reject the stupid “counter jihad,” paranoid nonsense such as “creeping sharia”. This is just icing on the cake for me, but thanks for bring this to my attention anyway.

129 CriticalDragon1177  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:51:33pm

re: #42 Gus

Thanks for showing us that. Here’s more on that documentary and what’s going on in Texas and how it could effect the rest of the nation here.

Texas, where science and history have become ideological battlegrounds
[Link: arstechnica.com…]

130 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 11:55:01pm

re: #129 CriticalDragon1177

Thanks for showing us that. Here’s more on that documentary and what’s going on in Texas and how it could effect the rest of the nation here.

Texas, where science and history have become ideological battlegrounds
[Link: arstechnica.com…]

After Reagan ran with the support of the fundamentalist Christians and then pretty much tossed them aside, they decided to take another approach: to get their people into all levels of government, public administration, education, etc. (they are somehow less successful in science and entertainment).

Texas represents the triumph of this approach. they are so well entrenched that they cannot be assailed, only contained.

131 freetoken  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:06:41am

Working on some ancestry, finally found out some info on one great grandfather. Kudos to the US, and the states of Ohio and Iowa, for actually keeping records in the 19th century.

The wingnuts may whine about their government overlords asking questions on during a census, but the census idea is a damn good one.

132 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:08:46am

re: #131 freetoken

The wingnuts may whine about their government overlords asking questions on during a census, but the census idea is a damn good one.

If one proceeds from the concept that government is by nature evil and works against people and their freedoms, then you wind up with ridiculous notions like opposing the census.

133 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:08:50am

re: #130 Sol Berdinowitz

Probably one of the biggest reasons they’re not very successful with getting their people into scientific fields is peer review, creationism, and most of what else they try to force down school kids throats would never survive peer review. The evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that pretty much everyone in the scientific community, with a few rare exceptions accepts it, and practically no scientist in a relevant field rejects evolution.

134 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:12:15am

re: #133 CriticalDragon1177

They have to play on the fact that so many Americans are so poorly educated that they do not understand how science works, what terms like “theory” or “statistical significance” mean in a scientific context, leaving plenty of room to present their own case as if it were somehow scientifically valid.

135 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:16:14am

re: #134 Sol Berdinowitz

I know, they also try to make it look like scientists who disagree with them are involved in some kind of conspiracy to hide the truth.

Remember “Climate Gate?”

136 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:18:39am

re: #135 CriticalDragon1177

I know, they also try to make it look like scientists who disagree with them are involved in some kind of conspiracy to hide the truth.

And since they know that a lot of people do not understand how peer review works, they can present the scientific community as some sort of cliquey group of effete intellectual snobs who look down on those who do not share their opinions.

137 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:30:02am

re: #136 Sol Berdinowitz

I don’t even know they understand how peer review works.

138 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:34:22am

re: #137 CriticalDragon1177

I don’t even know they understand how peer review works.

They assume it works like the cheerleaders’ table at the high school cafeteria…

139 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:18:19am
140 sagehen  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:24:14am

re: #118 makeitstop

Absolutely. Cop drama set in 1880s London, six months after the Jack The Ripper murders. Characters are well-played, and the seamy side of life in London is on full display. The cops are barely in control of the area under their jurisdiction, and they make interesting use of technological advances of the time, such as moving pictures in the first episode and the emerging science of autopsy in the second.

so I stayed up, caught the first two episodes… glad I did, now looking forward to next week (and fanfic ideas percolating, crossovers with the Ritchie!verse Sherlock Holmes). Thanks for the rec.

141 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:34:10am

re: #140 sagehen

crossovers with the Ritchie!verse Sherlock Holmes). Thanks for the rec.

I am sure that was the idea that inspired the series.

142 Jimmah  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 3:30:21am

re: #82 Shvaughn

For serious, Trout. I can’t believe how blatantly dishonest you are being here with what you wrote. You are outright lying about what the poster on DailyKos wrote. I had thought that, despite all your many flaws, you were better than that and had more respect for the readers of this blog.

The “Two weeks ago today” paragraph was written by Anonymous, and the Dkos poster was simply reporting it, in a properly marked blockquote. Dkos is no more suggesting that Schwarz was killed by Obama than you were by quoting the same paragraph.

I thought you had at least a little integrity, but this is just outright lying.

Care to respond, Trout?

This post is a thing of beauty.

143 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 3:38:56am

re: #142 Jimmah

Made me mentally revisit the “Here’s a video by Christopher Hitchens which is 99% concerned with government suppression of free speech, but I’m going to claim it doesn’t mention government suppression of free speech at all.” fiasco.

The funniest thing about that was that I couldn’t watch the video at that time— I think my headphones were broken and it was late or something— and he kept berating me for it. When I finally did, he’d completely misrepresented it.

I mean, by Killgore’s logic here— that just reposting the story neutrally is an endorsement of it— he’s doing the same thing.

144 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 3:40:57am

For those of us in the US who can’t easily get the UK stuff, here’s The Big Fat Quiz of the year 2012. This is funnier if you know something about British celebrities and politics, but still funny if you don’t.

It also apparently offended the hell out of a lot of people. The Daily Mail tried to make a big story of it but their own commentators shot them down, in a surprising twist.

145 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 4:29:33am

Will and the other denialists can cherry pick data till the cows come home but, in fact, the cows are not coming home.
Cargill corp. will close its meat processing plant in nearby Plainview, laying off 2000 people and essentially destroying the local economy. This is happening specifically because long-term drought has resulted in a serious shortage of cattle in the southwest.

Cargill will idle its Plainview, Texas beef processing plant due to a tight cattle supply brought on by years of drought in the region.

The US cattle herd is at its lowest level since 1952, Cargill said. Increased feed costs resulting from the prolonged drought, combined with herd liquidations by cattle ranchers, are severely challenging the beef industry, said John Keating, president of Cargill Beef. (emphasis added)

146 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 4:49:26am

I put up a new page, about a hashtag about sexism growing overnight in Germany.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

147 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 5:46:33am

Once in a while Bryan drop a pearl amongst the turds

148 darthstar  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 5:48:24am

Mornin’ all…just a quick drive by post before I get up to prep for another day on the mountain. Saw this story and had to share. Idiots who keep one round chambered…will they never learn?

149 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 6:00:04am

Am I the only one who sees that if not for a scant 4-year period (2004-2007) there wouldn’t really be an upward trend line on that plot at all?

There’s a lot of vindication for global warming (and George Will’s oft repeated fallacy of starting from 2006 is obvious BS); hell, basic physics outright requires it from known increased CO2 emissions; but I don’t personally see much conclusive evidence for it from this particular plot, especially considering that all US land area is only a few percent of the entire earth.

Someone correct me if they see something I don’t there. Something shouldn’t be cited as positive evidence for something if it isn’t, even if the phenomenon it supports is 100% true.

150 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 6:01:51am

re: #147 Vicious Babushka

Once in a while Bryan drop a pearl amongst the turds

Still a turd in some ways, since unlike Fischer Mitt Romney is a sane person.

151 Tigger2005  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 6:33:11am

I wonder how much they paid Will to abandon his integrity, or if he ever had any to begin with.

152 Tigger2005  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 6:34:40am

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

Still a turd in some ways, since unlike Fischer Mitt Romney is a sane person.

Could’ve fooled me. I think the entire right wing is undergoing some kind of collective psychosis.

153 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 6:37:22am

re: #148 darthstar

Mornin’ all…just a quick drive by post before I get up to prep for another day on the mountain. Saw this story and had to share. Idiots who keep one round chambered…will they never learn?

From the story:

Witnesses said they were playing quick draw with their guns, but they thought all of the guns were unloaded.

And nothing of value was lost.

If you are going to be serious about keeping a handgun as an emergency tool for defensive purposes, keeping a round chambered makes sense.

The problem comes when you are an irresponsible dipshit who doesn’t respect the lethal potential a handgun represents, and having ignored the first fucking law of firearms safety (all guns are always loaded), you choose to play with it like it’s a toy, because you are a child and have no business handling grown-up things that can hurt people.

People who do things like this make me angry. I do not have sympathy for them. I do not have sympathy for the occasional police officer who accidentally shoots another officer during a training exercise for the same reason.

“With great power comes great responsibility” isn’t a lesson that’s only relevant to newly-minted comic book superheroes.

Pencil: forgot link. Duh.

154 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 6:40:08am

re: #148 darthstar

Mornin’ all…just a quick drive by post before I get up to prep for another day on the mountain. Saw this story and had to share. Idiots who keep one round chambered…will they never learn?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the BIG gun safety rules not to point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot? And apparently trigger discipline is another mystery to these morons.

155 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 6:46:46am

re: #154 Targetpractice

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the BIG gun safety rules not to point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot? And apparently trigger discipline is another mystery to these morons.

Eh, I’d just list Patrick Daniel Garrett (that gun accident’s victim) as a Darwin Award nominee and move on. Especially for shaming his name; Pat Garrett indeed! If the original man of that name was as incompetent as the most recent iteration he would have shot himself instead of Billy the Kid.

156 Sionainn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 6:53:03am

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

Still a turd in some ways, since unlike Fischer Mitt Romney is a sane person.

If Mitt Romney actually fell for the propaganda that he was going to win and win big, then I would question his mental status.

157 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 6:59:46am

re: #156 Sionainn

If Mitt Romney actually fell for the propaganda that he was going to win and win big, then I would question his mental status.

I don’t know if we’re ever really going to learn the answer to that. We’d need an honest and relatively non-self-serving account of the 2012 Romney campaign and I do not know who might produce such an account,

158 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:00:17am

re: #154 Targetpractice

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the BIG gun safety rules not to point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot? And apparently trigger discipline is another mystery to these morons.

Well stated (but terribly formatted) here: [Link: thefiringline.com…]

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone’s hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to “open” it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a “target” that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)

Which is why that guy died.

159 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:07:51am

re: #155 Dark_Falcon

Eh, I’d just list Patrick Daniel Garrett (that gun accident’s victim) as a Darwin Award nominee and move on.

Look, it’s all too easy to have a little chuckle at morons killing themselves through stupidity and move on. And it’s certainly true that idiots can kill themselves without guns.

But just like every other death and injury involving guns, the guns make it many, many times easier. That’s why they exist. And only in the US where guns are more important than humans do people not sit up and say, you know, we can’t stop people being dumb, but hasn’t anyone noticed that we have an awful, awful lot of people doing dumb things with deadly weapons, and causing untold numbers of totally unnecessary deaths and injuries every day?

Every death and injury carries with it costs. Medical costs, social costs, societal costs. This idiot had friends and family. They, and he, now pay the price for a culture that treats guns as toys, fashion accessories, and religious icons.

160 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:09:15am
161 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:10:10am

re: #158 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Well stated (but terribly formatted) here: [Link: thefiringline.com…]

Which is why that guy died.

Quoted for Truth.

162 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:14:26am

re: #160 FemNaziBitch

DID YOU SEE MY NEW PAGES POST?????

How would that matter? The Equal Rights Amendment (ERA2 for me, ‘ERA’ having another meaning) had a ten year time limit for ratification, a limit long expired. Once that limit was exceeded, the amendment would have to pass both houses of Congress again by a 2/3rds vote.

(Post copied to GGT’s Page as well.)

163 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:21:30am

re: #159 Renaissance_Man

They, and he, now pay the price for a culture that treats guns as toys, fashion accessories, and religious icons.

Obliquely related:

Especially now, a lot of concealed-carry license holders only have concealed-carry licenses because they have made it part of their identity. They see themselves as the kind of person who carries a concealed firearm. They’re reinforcing their self-image with that specific lifestyle choice. There’s also a certain degree of ego inflation at work. They have no concept of themselves as statistically irrelevant in a sea of hundreds of millions of fellow citizens. They don’t realize that they go through life every bit as ignored as they ignore the hundreds or thousands of people they pass by every day in traffic. Nope, they could be a target.

As it goes, I think people who are not dangerous/insane/idiots should be allowed to carry firearms once they have demonstrated (to a much more stringent degree than most states currently accept) that they are capable of doing so in a safe and responsible manner. But I also think — and there is probably no way of ever enforcing this — that they should understand why they are choosing to do so. Do you really think you need to carry a gun, or do you just think that you’re the sort of person who carries a gun?

And as always, I may be entirely full of shit.

164 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:25:32am

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

How would that matter? The Equal Rights Amendment (ERA2 for me, ‘ERA’ having another meaning) had a ten year time limit for ratification, a limit long expired. Once that limit was exceeded, the amendment would have to pass both houses of Congress again by a 2/3rds vote.

(Post copied to GGT’s Page as well.)

Signing the Petition is a show of support.

I have no illusions that it will have a direct result in any legislation. I doubt the creator of the petition does either.

The point is to continue the momentum.

165 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:31:13am

re: #164 FemNaziBitch

Signing the Petition is a show of support.

I have no illusions that it will have a direct result in any legislation. I doubt the creator of the petition does either.

The point is to continue the momentum.

I hope I did not offend. When it comes to stuff relating to the Constitution, I have a ‘lawyerly’ frame of mind, looking at the practicalities rather than the emotions.

166 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:41:56am

re: #165 Dark_Falcon

I hope I did not offend. When it comes to stuff relating to the Constitution, I have a ‘lawyerly’ frame of mind, looking at the practicalities rather than the emotions.

Emotions seem to be what drive us humans —especially in matters of politics and economics.

167 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:45:32am
168 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:45:42am

re: #166 FemNaziBitch

Emotions seem to be what drive us humans —especially in matters of politics and economics.

I know. Truth to tell, I myself would prefer a much longer ERA2, which would detail the amendment’s interaction with the rest of the Constitution and provide for its interaction with existing legislation. That would remove the only major objection I have to the ERA2.

169 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:46:40am

re: #167 Gus

May the Lord receive their souls unto His Mercy.

170 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:49:29am

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

I know. Truth to tell, I myself would prefer a much longer ERA2, which would detail the amendment’s interaction with the rest of the Constitution and provide for its interaction with existing legislation. That would remove the only major objection I have to the ERA2.

Any legislation proposed would be different that the original ERA in many ways. DF, you know every politician would have get their .02 in. I haven’t even begun to speculate on what it could look like. I don’t see the point until there is enough momentum that we see it in the MSM or even Maddow or Stewart joking about it.

I have a feeling there are many versions already written and waiting in the wings for the right to submit. It’s up to the voters to create the right time. THAT TIME IS NOW!

171 Bubblehead II  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 7:58:58am

re: #167 Gus

When will these clubs ban the use of any pyrotechnic device in their establishments?

172 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:06:04am

Hehe. Friend posted on Facebook:

ENGINEERING FACT:

An opinion without 3.14 is an onion.
You’ll understand.

173 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:06:18am

re: #171 Bubblehead II

When will these clubs ban the use of any pyrotechnic device in their establishments?

When it stops being profitable to do so?

Usually when the insurance company raises rates or it become impossible to get insurance until company policy changes.

174 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:06:34am

re: #171 Bubblehead II

When will these clubs ban the use of any pyrotechnic device in their establishments?

They probably won’t, because allowing them is something clubs use to book acts that are likely big ‘draws’. Such acts represent too much money to ignore; Someone will always be be willing to grab at it.

175 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:07:45am

re: #172 Feline Fearless Leader

Hehe. Friend posted on Facebook:

ENGINEERING FACT:

An opinion without 3.14 is an onion.
You’ll understand.

groan

176 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:08:02am

re: #172 Feline Fearless Leader

Hehe. Friend posted on Facebook:

ENGINEERING FACT:

An opinion without 3.14 is an onion.
You’ll understand.

Well yes, Pi is a nice thing to have. In fact, my father and I are taking three pies out to a family gathering this afternoon. :D

177 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:10:22am

re: #176 Dark_Falcon

Well yes, Pi is a nice thing to have. In fact, my father and I are taking three pies out to a family gathering this afternoon. :D

With 3 Pies, you could go full circle and have?

no wait, that is almost full circle.

just a little short.

ah, you’d be short a cake!

178 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:17:13am

re: #177 FemNaziBitch

With 3 Pies, you could go full circle and have?

no wait, that is almost full circle.

just a little short.

ah, you’d be short a cake!

No, because my aunt is baking the 4th pie herself. ;)

179 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:19:04am

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

No, because my aunt is baking the 4th pie herself. ;)

But her PI is not YOUR PI

besides, I don’t want to figure out the math.

180 kirkspencer  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:21:05am

re: #158 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Well stated (but terribly formatted) here: [Link: thefiringline.com…]

Which is why that guy died.

The only time my grandfather struck me was the second time I pointed a muzzle at him.

In my defense, I was 8 and I wasn’t aiming at him. I was with the Adults of the family while they went pheasant hunting, and the shotgun was getting a little heavy and awkward as I stumbled through the harvested cornfield. Of course, that defense is probably why he only struck me instead of trying to beat the crap out of me.

You see, my grandfather was a bit serious about firearm safety. Back when he was what we these days call a pre-teen, he and his brothers were out hunting and his brother shot him with what was supposedly an unloaded gun. Cut across the flat of the palm, severing every one of the inner tendons.

The doctor was a genius, though he didn’t appreciate it till he tried to enlist for WWI. Doctor said he’d so something he’d learned from a civil war doctor and stitched each of the major tendons back together, then told his mother that he needed to exercise it so he’d have some use. The hand was permanently cupped - couldn’t extend flat - but had enough use he could grip and carry. (And the thumb was fine.) As I said, when he tried to enlist in WWI he was rejected by the doctor and complained about the quack. “Son, you get down on your knees every day and thank God for that quack. If it’d been me I’d have cut it off.”

Yeah, my grandfather was a bit perturbed when people pointed muzzles in anyone’s direction. He managed to pass that along to all his kids and most of his grandkids.

181 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:30:05am

re: #180 kirkspencer

SOUNDS like your Grandfather and my Dear ole’ Dad had the same teacher.

The problem these days is that the “in-home” gun control isn’t what it was. We have to face this somehow.

Legislation seems not to be in the stars.

182 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:30:32am


I think Chuck needs some new knee pads.

183 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:31:49am

re: #182 Gus

I think Chuck needs some new knee pads.

shenanigans?

No, only when it’s Republicans talking about re-districting.

184 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:33:33am

re: #180 kirkspencer

My grand dad was super strict too. Not just about guns either!
There are certain particularly dangerous things a youngster can do that has to get a very strong correction. The kind they remember above almost all other punishments. (Not saying hitting a kid is a good idea, just calling for a huge impression) Guns, cars (ever heard of a kid starting a car to a bad end?) the chemical/poison cabinet, fire…. Just because these things are flat out deadly in accidents.

185 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:34:14am

Yes, you know what time it is.

The dogs are taking their mid-morning nap and the Cat Overlord has given his approval for me to join them.

I wonder what he does while we are asleep?

Have a good day all!

186 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:34:28am

re: #181 FemNaziBitch

SOUNDS like your Grandfather and my Dear ole’ Dad had the same teacher.

The problem these days is that the “in-home” gun control isn’t what it was. We have to face this somehow.

Legislation seems not to be in the stars.

How would legislation of in-home gun storage work out?

Without weapon registration you don’t know how many guns are in any particular home. And then you get into how one goes about inspecting and enforcing storage rules once enacted. Any sort of active or periodic inspection regime will raise howls of protest over invasion of homes and privacy. And if there is not any sort of active inspection, a passive system is going to turn into fines and charges added on after the fact when improper storage is noted as a follow-up to something else having the police enter the house.

187 efuseakay  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:35:32am

245+ die in a nightclub fire in Brazil. Sigh.

188 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:36:45am

re: #186 Feline Fearless Leader

How would legislation of in-home gun storage work out?

Without weapon registration you don’t know how many guns are in any particular home. And then you get into how one goes about inspecting and enforcing storage rules once enacted. Any sort of active or periodic inspection regime will raise howls of protest over invasion of homes and privacy. And if there is not any sort of active inspection, a passive system is going to turn into fines and charges added on after the fact when improper storage is noted as a follow-up to something else having the police enter the house.

THe point being …

Gun nuts are going to have to agree to some sort of registration or moratorium on manufacturing. Ammo Tax, something.

Government is going to have to step-in and pick-up the slack —somehow, someway.

God forbid we actually spend money on CONTRACEPTION AND EDUCATION.

(ggt beats head against wall, again)

I’m off, have a great one!

189 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:38:52am

re: #185 FemNaziBitch

Yes, you know what time it is.

The dogs are taking their mid-morning nap and the Cat Overlord has given his approval for me to join them.

I wonder what he does while we are asleep?

Have a good day all!

Mid-morning is one of the cat play times. He will be off in the larder doing inventory of cat food, cat nip, and other necessities.

Here the two cats are in private time. LC (Loose Cannon) aka Chat Noir is sitting on the den window sill looking out the window. Puffin aka PuffyButt is (goes to check) is lazing on the office chair in the bedroom sunning her legs.

190 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:39:01am

Twitter. Or as I like to think of it: junior high.

191 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:40:03am

re: #183 FemNaziBitch

shenanigans?

No, only when it’s Republicans talking about re-districting.

As long as you exempt Illinois Republicans from that, since we’ve suffered from shenanigans ourselves.

192 dragonfire1981  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:41:08am

Meanwhile in the communist wasteland known as Canada…

Ontario gets first female Premier…who also happens to a Lesbian.

Kathleen Wynne has won the leadership of the Ontario Liberal Party and is set to become the province’s first female premier, after a closely fought race with Sandra Pupatello.

Wynne, the 59-year-old MPP for Don Valley West, is a long-time party member who has had several cabinet roles, including minister of transportation and minister of education.

She has vowed to bring back the legislature on Feb. 19, saying Ontarians are not looking for another election.

Wynne, who is openly gay, had earlier asked delegates in an opening speech: “Can a gay woman win?”

She now has an answer.

Throughout her leadership campaign, she vowed to represent all minorities and reinforce ties within her party. After being declared the winner Saturday evening, she brought caucus members on stage in a symbolic show of unity.

She also noted in her victory speech that, while she holds a Toronto riding, she will represent all of Ontario as premier.

I just love how much there is in this article to make some of the right wingers heads pop right off. We have a gay woman in a liberal leadership role who also works hard to rally minorities to her side. WASP super villain in the making?

For those unaware, a Premier is the Canadian equivalent of a state governor.

Also with the election of Wynne, more than half of Canada is now run by women.

What’s what I hear? More heads popping off?

193 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:42:41am

re: #192 dragonfire1981

Meanwhile in the communist wasteland known as Canada…

Ontario gets first female Premier…who also happens to a Lesbian.

I just love how much there is in this article to make some of the right wingers heads pop right off. We have a gay woman in a liberal leadership role who also works hard to rally minorities to her side. WASP super villain in the making?

For those unaware, a Premier is the Canadian equivalent of a state governor.

Also with the election of Wynne, more than half of Canada is now run by women.

What’s what I hear? More heads popping off?

Not here, friend. I love Ontario: So many people there will sign up for conferences and training sessions.

/Hey, I’m in sales.

194 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:45:09am

re: #192 dragonfire1981

Meanwhile in the communist wasteland known as Canada…

Ontario gets first female Premier…who also happens to a Lesbian.

I just love how much there is in this article to make some of the right wingers heads pop right off. We have a gay woman in a liberal leadership role who also works hard to rally minorities to her side. WASP super villain in the making?

For those unaware, a Premier is the Canadian equivalent of a state governor.

Also with the election of Wynne, more than half of Canada is now run by women.

What’s what I hear? More heads popping off?

Oh noes! Monthly invasions from the north bombarding us with poutine in their attempts to advance upon Texas.
;)

195 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:46:08am

re: #187 efuseakay

245+ die in a nightclub fire in Brazil. Sigh.

Huge sigh. Horrible news to wake up to.

196 efuseakay  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:49:56am

re: #195 Stanghazi

Huge sigh. Horrible news to wake up to.

No kidding. Makes the “ARPAIO POSSE OBAMA BC FORGERY BOMBSHELL” news on FR seem trivial… Oh wait… :-/

197 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:51:41am

My Twiiter feed this morning? It’s all about the white dudes: Julian Assange, Chuck Todd, Jon Husted, John McCain, Rush Limbaugh…

We demand attention and respect and we demand it NOW!

Oh, and this is stupid.

198 dragonfire1981  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:54:17am

re: #197 Gus

My Twiiter feed this morning? It’s all about the white dudes: Julian Assange, Chuck Todd, Jon Husted, John McCain, Rush Limbaugh…

We demand attention and respect and we demand it NOW!

Oh, and this is stupid.

Why is it stupid Gus? Because comparing the U.S. economy to that of Latin American nations is inappropriate?

199 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:55:23am

re: #198 dragonfire1981

Why is it stupid Gus? Because comparing the U.S. economy to that of Latin American nations is inappropriate?

Because, it’s a lop sided comparison. The reason those nation “look” better is because they have more poor people. Unless you think life is better in Honduras.

200 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 8:59:07am

Brazil has better income distribution than the USA. Sure, that makes sense.

201 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:01:40am

re: #197 Gus

My Twiiter feed this morning? It’s all about the white dudes: Julian Assange, Chuck Todd, Jon Husted, John McCain, Rush Limbaugh…

We demand attention and respect and we demand it NOW!

Oh, and this is stupid.

Pic from the “War on Drugs” slideshow: Look at that extended magazine at the center just below the 40mm grenades. That one’s gotta have a 50 round capacity. Never seen one quite like it.

202 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:05:59am

re: #198 dragonfire1981

Why is it stupid Gus? Because comparing the U.S. economy to that of Latin American nations is inappropriate?

Gus has a point. Income inequality may be greater here, but ‘depth of poverty’ is far less, that meaning that the poor here are less poor than the poor there. And while the rich are richer, the government is less corrupt and honest people have a better chance. That’s not to say Latin American nations don’t try to improve, for some (Brazil and Columbia for example) are honestly trying and they are improving.

203 sagehen  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:07:01am

re: #186 Feline Fearless Leader

How would legislation of in-home gun storage work out?

Without weapon registration you don’t know how many guns are in any particular home. And then you get into how one goes about inspecting and enforcing storage rules once enacted. Any sort of active or periodic inspection regime will raise howls of protest over invasion of homes and privacy. And if there is not any sort of active inspection, a passive system is going to turn into fines and charges added on after the fact when improper storage is noted as a follow-up to something else having the police enter the house.

Passive after-the-fact works fine.

Licensed pilots are required to keep up a certain amount of practice, to have the plane go through certain inspections every x hours of flight time, and to keep detailed logs. But nobody ever comes around to look at your logs, you don’t have to bring them anywhere to show anyone… unless there’s an “Incident”, when the investigators are there anyway, that’s when they take a look, and god help you if you haven’t dotted every I and crossed every T. (and you can’t claim you didn’t know, these requirements are part of the questions on the written test you have to pass before they let you take the checkride to demonstrate proficiency. And the checkride is super-picky, you don’t get a license unless you truly are capable.)

204 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:09:05am

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

Pic from the “War on Drugs” slideshow: Look at that extended magazine at the center just below the 40mm grenades. That one’s gotta have a 50 round capacity. Never seen one quite like it.

Yeah. Went along with that “scientific” study. re: #202 Dark_Falcon

Gus has a point. Income inequality may be greater here, but ‘depth of poverty’ is far less, that meaning that the poor here are less poor than the poor there. And while the rich are richer, the government is less corrupt and honest people have a better chance. That’s not to say Latin American nations don’t try to improve, for some (Brazil and Columbia for example) are honestly trying and they are improving.

One could also say it appears to be higher here because we more billionaires. We have a said 20 percent which you divide by the countless numbers of billionaires in the USA. While in those countries you’re dividing the 20 percent by relatively few millionaires and maybe a handful of billionaires.

205 dragonfire1981  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:12:03am

re: #199 Gus

Because, it’s a lop sided comparison. The reason those nation “look” better is because they have more poor people. Unless you think life is better in Honduras.

Hadn’t thought about that but you make a good point.

206 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:12:56am

re: #204 Gus

Yeah. Went along with that “scientific” study.

Sorry Gus, that was just the ‘gearhead’ in me. But there is a good amount of science is designing such a magazine. ;)

BBL for real.

207 dragonfire1981  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:15:36am

Hey Gus let me ask you: What would be a good comparison?

I was under the impression the U.S. economy is somewhat unique in terms of wealth distribution compared to most other first world nations (which would be the obvious choices for comparison).

208 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:17:47am

re: #184 Political Atheist

My dad was a big softie in most ways. You weren’t supposed to say George Carlin’s Seven Dirty Words, but from time to time you could get away with it (context is everything) and even if you didn’t get away with it, the consequences weren’t terribly harsh. There were rules, but they were bent or ignored from time to time.

But my dad had guns, too, and while we enjoyed shooting as a fun form of recreation, they inhabited an entirely separate realm, so to speak. We had “rules” about household behavior, but where the guns were concerned, we had laws. When Dad explained to you the laws concerning the guns, he gave you That Look the whole time. It didn’t occur to you what the consequences might be for violating the laws. That wasn’t the point. The cost-benefit analysis of “how much trouble would I get in if I broke this rule” never played into it. You just instinctively knew that you shouldn’t do it, just like you knew that you shouldn’t swallow nails or set the curtains on fire.

I strongly suspect that the fools behind stunts like “Gun Appreciation Day” never learned those laws the way I and many others did.

209 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:22:37am

re: #207 dragonfire1981

Hey Gus let me ask you: What would be a good comparison?

I was under the impression the U.S. economy is somewhat unique in terms of wealth distribution compared to most other first world nations (which would be the obvious choices for comparison).

I don’t think it does much good to compare. The problem is that we have so many billionaires and millionaires that it does appear to be more poorly distributed. Honduras, which they claim to be more equitable is amongst the poorest country in Latin America.

The people of Honduras are among the poorest in Latin America; Gross national income per capita (2007) is $US 1,649; the average for Central America is $US 6,736.

210 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:22:38am

re: #204 Gus

One could also say it appears to be higher here because we more billionaires. We have a said 20 percent which you divide by the countless numbers of billionaires in the USA. While in those countries you’re dividing the 20 percent by relatively few millionaires and maybe a handful of billionaires.

Also notice how high Chavez’s socialist utopia is on that list. Anyone with money has fled or had their businesses confiscated long ago. Meanwhile the entire country waits in line at empty grocery stores for basics like bread and sugar.

211 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:26:48am

re: #210 Killgore Trout

Also notice how high Chavez’s socialist utopia is on that list. Anyone with money has fled or had their businesses confiscated long ago. Meanwhile the entire country waits in line at empty grocery stores for basics like bread and sugar.

Rural poverty in Honduras

The Republic of Honduras is the second poorest country in Central America. It is a lower middle-income country with persistent poverty and inequality challenges and a per-capita income of about US$1,880 in 2010. Although the government has achieved a degree of economic stability since 2000, progress has not resulted in improved living conditions or reduced poverty for the country’s huge proportion of poor people. It ranks 121 out of 187 countries on the United Nations Development Programme’s 2011 Human Development Index – a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living for countries worldwide.

The country’s population of approximately 8 million people is divided evenly between urban and rural areas. However, poverty is essentially a rural problem. Poverty in the country affects 60 per cent of the population, while 36 per cent live under extreme poverty conditions. In rural areas, these figures rise to 63 per cent and 50 per cent respectively.

Poverty is prevalent in central hillside areas in the interior highlands of Honduras, which are home to about 75 per cent of the rural population, including indigenous groups. The highest concentration of rural poverty is found in the western region, which also has the greatest concentration of extreme poverty. Lack of access to land and basic services, a vulnerable environment and low agricultural productivity are among the problems at the root of poverty in the country. A lack of employment opportunities in rural areas has been a major driving force behind the country’s high level of emigration…

212 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:27:46am

Image: enrique2.jpg

Buzzards and children compete for scraps at the Tegucigalpa, Honduras, landfill. Boys scavenge for anything they can eat or sell. Northbound freight trains through Mexico are crowded with Hondurans fleeing poverty and in search of work or a relative in the U.S.

But hey. They have better income distribution.

213 dragonfire1981  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:28:05am

OT: A quick google search reveals several funny fake movie posters for Star Wars Episode VII but I also stumbled across this one which I must say is really cool.

214 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:28:53am

Venezuela supermarket scramble mixes dearth with gourmet

in Venezuela’s distorted oil-driven economy, it’s the staple products that go scarce while luxury goods and niche-market items are easy to find.

“You can find 18-year whiskey on any street corner. The problem is finding the basic goods,” said Iris Moreno, 63, a retired economist. “Somebody walks by with a shopping bag and you say ‘Is that yellow stuff corn flour?’ And they say, ‘Yes ma’am, hurry before it runs out!’”

Under price controls created by Chavez, merchants can be fined or jailed for selling products such as milk, cooking oil and corn flour - crucial for making pancake-like “arepas” that are a staple in Venezuela - for more than the price set by the state.

But they are free to sell champagne, basmati rice or truffle oil at the price they please, leaving supermarkets and corner stores stocked with a range of goods that many consumers have no use nor budget for.

215 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:35:00am

re: #210 Killgore Trout

Also notice how high Chavez’s socialist utopia is on that list. Anyone with money has fled or had their businesses confiscated long ago. Meanwhile the entire country waits in line at empty grocery stores for basics like bread and sugar.

It’s hilarious. They have El Salvador up there as a shining example.

216 Mattand  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:35:02am
217 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:35:06am

re: #203 sagehen

Passive after-the-fact works fine.

Licensed pilots are required to keep up a certain amount of practice, to have the plane go through certain inspections every x hours of flight time, and to keep detailed logs. But nobody ever comes around to look at your logs, you don’t have to bring them anywhere to show anyone… unless there’s an “Incident”, when the investigators are there anyway, that’s when they take a look, and god help you if you haven’t dotted every I and crossed every T. (and you can’t claim you didn’t know, these requirements are part of the questions on the written test you have to pass before they let you take the checkride to demonstrate proficiency. And the checkride is super-picky, you don’t get a license unless you truly are capable.)

That feeds into having more stringent ownership and licensing requirements on the front end of getting the gun in the first place, does it not? Extended safety training, etc. with an analogy to inspections being mandatory refresher training?

However, I think there are considerable differences in a number of ways between aircraft piloting controls and licensing and licensing and inspection/control of guns. Scale, numbers, and status of the current system to name a few examples.

218 Mattand  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:35:36am
219 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:37:25am

re: #205 dragonfire1981

Hadn’t thought about that but you make a good point.

That’s where you have to look at a mix of statistics. Median income in the country as well as average income, said distribution, etc. It’s always easy to find one particular statistic in the group that you can harp on as proving your point while bypassing the real picture that all of them together present.

220 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:41:23am

re: #212 Gus

Image: enrique2.jpg

Buzzards and children compete for scraps at the Tegucigalpa, Honduras, landfill. Boys scavenge for anything they can eat or sell. Northbound freight trains through Mexico are crowded with Hondurans fleeing poverty and in search of work or a relative in the U.S.

But hey. They have better income distribution.

And you can just about guarantee the basic education system in those areas sucks as well. Without that the odds against you ever having a chance of getting out of poverty go way up and the brutal cycle just continues. A vast waste of brains that could have considerable potential.

221 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:41:59am

re: #213 dragonfire1981

OT: A quick google search reveals several funny fake movie posters for Star Wars Episode VII but I also stumbled across this one which I must say is really cool.

“I know I dropped those keys here somewhere!”

222 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:42:27am

re: #215 Gus

It’s hilarious. They have El Salvador up there as a shining example.

It is a shame that South America has been so neglected. With the recent problems in Mali I’ve been reminded that problems in sub-Saharan Africa are so often ignored until there’s a flare up of something sensational enough to attract Western Media attention. There’s a whole world out there and there are no easy solutions.

223 jaunte  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:51:08am
224 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:52:12am

re: #209 Gus

I don’t think it does much good to compare. The problem is that we have so many billionaires and millionaires that it does appear to be more poorly distributed. Honduras, which they claim to be more equitable is amongst the poorest country in Latin America.

That we have so many billionaires and millionaires actually means that it’s poorly distributed, not just appears to be.

225 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:56:30am

re: #135 CriticalDragon1177

I know, they also try to make it look like scientists who disagree with them are involved in some kind of conspiracy to hide the truth.

Remember “Climate Gate?”

If you start as a Christian creationist that thinks evolution is a lie to discredit their beliefs, there’s nowhere to go but conspiracy theories. Most of the conservative nonsense is rooted in this one deeply cherished ridiculously wrong belief, and the Republicans use this as a lever to manipulate ignorant people into hating anything reasonable, and voting for scoundrels.

My own otherwise intelligent brother and sister-in-law live this Republican fantasy-based worldview, so I’m very familiar with it, and how it creates conspiracies within conspiracies until everyone with an education is out to get you.

226 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 9:56:56am

re: #224 Obdicut

That we have so many billionaires and millionaires actually means that it’s poorly distributed, not just appears to be.

Yep. Ariana Huffington is amongst that group.

227 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:00:56am

re: #226 Gus

Yep. Ariana Huffington is amongst that group.

Because she excels at taking advantage of young, unpaid workers. Success through exploitation, it’s the American way!

228 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:01:01am

Surrender the Secret - New Christian Reality Show Addresses Post-Abortion Healing

Since abortion was legalized by the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade, January 22, 1973, over 54 million babies have been aborted in the United States alone. This tragedy is compounded by the emotional scars carried by women who have experienced abortions.

Between 35-40% of women in the U.S. have had an abortion. The grief and guilt a woman carries with her after an abortion can be overwhelming. Abortion has been linked to an increased risk of depression, anxiety, substance abuse and suicidal attempts or thoughts. Even the Supreme Court has acknowledged that some women come to regret the choice they’ve made to “abort the infant they once created and sustained… severe depression and loss of esteem can follow,” (Gonzales v. Carhart 550 U.S. 124, 159 (2007)). Even so, a majority of women never receive counseling or support following an abortion. One study notes that two thirds of women reported not receiving any counseling related to their abortion.

229 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:03:34am

re: #227 JeffFX

Because she excels at taking advantage of young, unpaid workers. Success through exploitation, it’s the American way!

Yeah, but where else can you get a mix of political news with wardrobe malfunctions and the latest plastic surgery screw ups.

230 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:05:20am
The grief and guilt a woman carries with her after an abortion can be overwhelming. Abortion has been linked to an increased risk of depression, anxiety, substance abuse and suicidal attempts or thoughts.

Is this seen in normal people, or is it just social-conservatives losing it due to their inability to tell the difference between choosing to not have a child and infanticide?

231 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:07:02am

re: #230 JeffFX

Is this seen in normal people, or is it just social-conservatives losing it due to their inability to tell the difference between choosing to not have a child and infanticide.

Given how we’re all wired, I can easily believe that nearly everyone reacts that way. Babies, or the prospect thereof, seem to turn the most cold-blooded and rational individual into a gibbering mess.

232 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:09:36am

Anything to do with babies or giving birth is an emotional event, especially for women. This program seems to be a ploy to exploit those emotions: see you’ll feel guilty for murdering that baby. You don’t want that guilt do you?

233 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:10:35am

re: #228 Kronocide

That’s from James Dobson’s loathsome anti-gay hate group, the Family Research Council. So no, I’m not going to give it any credibility or benefit of the doubt whatsoever.

re: #231 erik_t

Given how we’re all wired, I can easily believe that nearly everyone reacts that way. Babies, or the prospect thereof, seem to turn the most cold-blooded and rational individual into a gibbering mess.

Not necessarily:

I’mNotSorry.net was created for the purpose of showing women that exercising their legal right to terminate their pregnancy is not the blood-spattered guilt trip so many make it out to be. It is not intended to make women’s decisions for them, but to provide information to make the choice that will be best for them. This site exists to tell women that it’s okay not to feel sad or ashamed after an abortion. You are not a baby killer. You are not irresponsible. You are not selfish. And, above all, you are not evil.

234 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:11:00am

OT: When I forget to log in, LGF is full of bad advice ads between the great articles.

Ann Coulter as someone whose opinion I should care about was bad enough, but now an ad is trying to mislead me into not eating bananas! This has gone too Far!
/

235 Shvaughn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:12:49am

So, hey, Killgore, good morning.

Up in comment #23 you blatantly lied. I called you on it in #82.

Care to rethink your post and consider what you’re going to say about it?

236 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:15:54am

re: #233 Interesting Times


Yep, people who aren’t completely brainless can understand that abortion is taking responsibility and not bringing an unwanted child into the world due to an accidental pregnancy.

Having a baby that you’re unable to take good care of and raise right is about as irresponsible as it gets. This is how we wind up with feral teenagers.

238 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:19:46am

re: #226 Gus

Yep. Ariana Huffington is amongst that group.

Yep. The article blows, but income inequality in the US is terrible and it’s going to continue to cause financial crisis after crisis until we get it under control.

239 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:20:39am

re: #237 Kronocide

I was not familiar with that site. Thanks for posting it.

240 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:20:57am

re: #235 Shvaughn

So, hey, Killgore, good morning.

Up in comment #23 you blatantly lied. I called you on it in #82.

Care to rethink your post and consider what you’re going to say about it?

I think mainstreaming the conspiracy theory that Obama’s DoJ killed Arron is every bit as stupid as anything from Alex Jones or Glenn Beck. It’s stupid and it’s untrue. The fact that Anon press releases and paranoid conspiracy theories are promoted by mainstream progressive websites is very unhelpful and damages credibility when pointing out that conservative sites do the same thing. It’s nutty and it’s a turn off to people who may otherwise be persuaded to rethink their positions. Would you give a pass to Glenn Beck for repeating some bogus press release from Americans for prosperity? Of course not.
Spreading antigovernment conspiracy theories about our our president is a dickish and destructive thing to do no matter who does it.

241 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:21:08am

re: #238 Obdicut

Yep. The article blows, but income inequality in the US is terrible and it’s going to continue to cause financial crisis after crisis until we get it under control.

Yes. The article does blow which doesn’t mean that life in the USA is rather inequitable for many. How to solve that is a long term goal with no quick answers since it involves many entrenched values dating back 1000s of years.

242 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:21:44am

I’ve been on Fox News for 45 minutes. They did a plug segment for the Christian abortion support group reality show, I wasn’t surprised its supported by the FRC.

Dirty guilt tripping scum.

243 Shvaughn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:24:36am

re: #240 Killgore Trout

I think mainstreaming the conspiracy theory that Obama’s DoJ killed Arron is every bit as stupid as anything from Alex Jones or Glenn Beck. It’s stupid and it’s untrue. The fact that Anon press releases and paranoid conspiracy theories are promoted by mainstream progressive websites is very unhelpful and damages credibility when pointing out that conservative sites do the same thing. It’s nutty and it’s a turn off to people who may otherwise be persuaded to rethink their positions. Would you give a pass to Glenn Beck for repeating some bogus press release from Americans for prosperity? Of course not.
Spreading antigovernment conspiracy theories about our our president is a dickish and destructive thing to do no matter who does it.

Okay, so you think that by quoting the Anon press release they’re “mainstreaming the conspiracy theory”?

You mean like when you quoted it above or what?

Cuz, like, in that post on DailyKos, that’s just reporting, man. It’s not endorsing and not claiming ideas as their own. In fact, they’re quoting from a mainstream news source when they blockquote the Anon statement.

You tried to claim that “Dkos accuses the Obama regime of killing hacker” except they did no such thing, no more than any other blog or news agency did. What is your support for this statement? Other than you blatantly lying.

244 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:24:37am

re: #236 JeffFX

Having a baby that you’re unable to take good care of and raise right is about as irresponsible as it gets. This is how we wind up with feral teenagers.

To don my devil’s advocate hat, anti-choicers would instantly respond to such an argument with, “then give it up for adoption to a loving couple who DOES want it.”

How to rebut that? Personally, I default to the “no one is entitled to use the body or organs of another without their consent” (also known as the “violinist argument”, which I first heard from LGF’s jamesfirecat)

245 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:28:57am

re: #244 Interesting Times

To don my devil’s advocate hat, anti-choicers would instantly respond to such an argument with, “then give it up for adoption to a loving couple who DOES want it.”

How to rebut that?

Birth control. Lots of it, lots of discussion about sex, free, without the guilt.

246 allegro  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:29:07am

re: #242 Kronocide

I’ve been on Fox News for 45 minutes. They did a plug segment for the Christian abortion support group reality show, I wasn’t surprised its supported by the FRC.

Dirty guilt tripping scum.

The women I’ve known who have had abortions, myself included, have all expressed the same primary emotion: intense relief. Those who suffer such guilt, depression, etc. are those who have internalized the constant message that they are evil murderers and failures as women human beings. The problem is not the abortion but that message.

247 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:29:15am
248 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:30:32am

re: #240 Killgore Trout

I think mainstreaming the conspiracy theory that Obama’s DoJ killed Arron is every bit as stupid as anything from Alex Jones or Glenn Beck. It’s stupid and it’s untrue.

We report, you decide. Except when somebody else reports, then its advocacy.

249 Shvaughn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:30:39am

re: #240 Killgore Trout

I mean, here’s a google search for ya:

“Two weeks ago today, a line was crossed. Two weeks ago today, Aaron Swartz was killed.”

There’s certainly a fuckton of news sites and blogs out there who are “mainstreaming the conspiracy theory”!

Do you really not understand the difference between “reporting on what the hackers said” and “mainstreaming the conspiracy theory”?

Answering my own question: Of course you do, which is why you’re being grossly dishonest in your accusation here.

250 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:36:27am

re: #240 Killgore Trout

I think mainstreaming the conspiracy theory that Obama’s DoJ killed Arron is every bit as stupid as anything from Alex Jones or Glenn Beck. It’s stupid and it’s untrue.

But they didn’t mainstream that conspiracy theory, any more than you did. So why are you claiming they did?

251 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:37:42am

re: #249 Shvaughn

I mean, here’s a google search for ya:

“Two weeks ago today, a line was crossed. Two weeks ago today, Aaron Swartz was killed.”

There’s certainly a fuckton of news sites and blogs out there who are “mainstreaming the conspiracy theory”!

Do you really not understand the difference between “reporting on what the hackers said” and “mainstreaming the conspiracy theory”?

Answering my own question: Of course you do, which is why you’re being grossly dishonest in your accusation here.

I don’t care what conspiracy theorists think about my posts. Carry on.

252 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:39:51am

…and Dkos what one of the hot spots for popularizing the conspiracy theory that the Banks and the Feds were conspiring against OWS. Before that it was the Israelis orchestrating the crackdown. Before that the 9-11 Truth movement was so popular on Dkos that it had to be officially banned.

253 Shvaughn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:40:18am

re: #243 Shvaughn

In fact, they’re quoting from a mainstream news source when they blockquote the Anon statement.

Correcting my own statement: They’re actually quoting from ZDnet, which is probably not considered a mainstream news source by a strict definition. But in any case, the attribution on the statement is clear, and the Dkos diary does nothing to claim support for the theory.

They’re just reporting it in a blockquote, like Killgore did on this very site.

Next time someone posts a comment of the effect “look what crazy Pam Geller is up to!” with a blockquote, are they likewise gonna be mainstreaming her conspiracy theory? Gawrsh.

Long story short: Killgore, you blatantly lied about Dkos, and it’s fucking obvious to anyone who clicks through the link you cited in #23. Are you really gonna continue to double down on this?

254 Shvaughn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:41:15am

re: #251 Killgore Trout

I don’t care what conspiracy theorists think about my posts. Carry on.

Wait, are you calling me a conspiracy theorist now?

Despite the fact that you gave a baldfaced lie that misrepresented entirely what was said at Dkos?

LOL.

255 EmmaAnne  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:43:17am

re: #228 Kronocide

Surrender the Secret - New Christian Reality Show Addresses Post-Abortion Healing

Between 35-40% of women in the U.S. have had an abortion. The grief and guilt a woman carries with her after an abortion can be overwhelming.

Uh huh. And sometimes it’s the relief that is overwhelming.

256 Shvaughn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:43:51am

re: #252 Killgore Trout

…and Dkos what one of the hot spots for popularizing the conspiracy theory that the Banks and the Feds were conspiring against OWS. Before that it was the Israelis orchestrating the crackdown. Before that the 9-11 Truth movement was so popular on Dkos that it had to be officially banned.

And yet you still have to lie about what they said about Aaron Swartz, despite how awful Dkos can be at times! Shocker.

This statement by you — “Dkos accuses the Obama regime of killing hacker” — is obviously false to anyone who follows the link you provided. Do you really have such little integrity, Trout?

257 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:44:38am

re: #252 Killgore Trout

Witness my utter shock at this all coming around to another OWS discussion.

258 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:45:03am

DKos = Fox Nation

Carry on.

259 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:46:49am

re: #258 Kronocide

DKos = Fox Nation

Carry on.

DKos is too small a data-type to accept all the hate stored in Fox Nation, so that assignment will fail with an overflow error.

/programmer joke.

260 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:48:09am

re: #257 erik_t

Witness my utter shock at this all coming around to another OWS discussion.

It was a massive loss of credibility for those who claimed to be against radicalism and political violence.

261 gwangung  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:49:29am

re: #260 Killgore Trout

It was a massive loss of credibility for those who claimed to be against radicalism and political violence.

No, it isn’t.

The only loss of credibility is yours, with your massively sloppy thinking and rhetoric. And such sloppiness should be called out.

262 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:49:54am

re: #260 Killgore Trout

It was a massive loss of credibility for those who claimed to be against radicalism and political violence.

Sez the man who can’t tell the difference between.

263 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:50:03am

re: #260 Killgore Trout

It was a massive loss of credibility for those who claimed to be against radicalism and political violence.

LOL. Okay. Tilt away.

264 Shvaughn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:50:18am

re: #261 gwangung

No, it isn’t.

The only loss of credibility is yours, with your massively sloppy thinking and rhetoric. And such sloppiness should be called out.

Except he’s gotta make this all about OWS somehow and not man up to the fact that he lied his ass off and it’s obvious to anyone who follows his link.

265 Interesting Times  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:51:28am

“Um, you lied about what that DKos link said.”

“Look! Over there! SQUIRREL OWS!!!11!!ty!”

266 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:51:44am

re: #264 Shvaughn

Except he’s gotta make this all about OWS somehow and not man up to the fact that he lied his ass off and it’s obvious to anyone who follows his link.

The only thing worse than a lie is a stupid lie.

As if a generation raised on falling into TVTropes- and Wikipedia-shaped time sinks is unable to comprehend the idea of clicking through to read more.

267 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:54:05am

re: #244 Interesting Times

As you point out in the second half of your post, adoption only solves half the problem. The mother has still had her life hijacked and will most likely will fall behind her peers in education, and lag behind financially and intellectually for their entire life. If enough people fail this way, we all suffer from the loss of what they might have been.

Anyone who chooses to terminate the pregnancy solves both ends of the problem, and frees up an adopting parent to take care of a real child that exists and is suffering. If they’re free from religious indoctrination that would cause them mental harm, there is no downside. It’s only a problem to the blastocyst/fetus fetish crowd.

268 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 10:59:30am
269 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:01:38am

Killgore, you’re still operating under the illusion that OWS, Anon, et al. have any influence on the mainstream left. Most of the people I volunteered with in the Obama campaign were to the right of me, and didn’t even care about any of that stuff.

In comparison, almost all the Republican events I have had the misfortune of being associated with have featured ranting at liberals and socialists in the government.

270 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:08:49am

Gen Boykin and Cmdr Martha McSally debating women in combat: LOL.

272 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:12:36am

re: #260 Killgore Trout

It was a massive loss of credibility for those who claimed to be against radicalism and political violence.

Ah, I see, so it’s loss of credibility that that displeases you. In that case I suppose you haven’t been misrepresenting things out of your own dishonesty—perish the thought!—you’ve simply been illustrating to us how it’s done.

chutzpah (n.)
also hutzpah, 1892, from Yiddish khutspe “impudence, gall.” from Hebrew hutspah. The classic definition is that given by Leo Rosten: “that quality enshrined in a man who, having killed his mother and father, throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan.”

273 jaunte  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:13:51am

In 1991 at a meeting of Dads Against Discrimination at an Anchorage, Alaska Denny’s restaurant, Ross was overheard saying, “If a guy can’t rape his wife…who’s he gonna rape?” and “There wouldn’t be an issue with domestic violence if women would learn to keep their mouth shut.”

274 Jalal bin Smokin?  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:14:30am

re: #271 jaunte

The 5 top Republicans open to shutting down government to get their way

Ted Cruz is a top Republican? We’re screwed!

275 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:15:08am

re: #272 CuriousLurker

The thing I really love about LGF is that way people get called out on their bullshit. Sure it’s hard when the deeply cherished bullshit is my own, but it forces us all to be intellectually honest.

276 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:17:43am

re: #269 dragonath

This is the huge difference. The Democrats have a lunatic fringe, and the Republicans have a sane fringe, but lunatic core.

277 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:18:04am

re: #243 Shvaughn

Why bother? It’s not like KT actually cares beyond what ever he get’s from being a troll.

278 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:18:56am

re: #276 JeffFX

This is the huge difference. The Democrats have a lunatic fringe, and the Republicans have a sane fringe, but lunatic core.

They do? Where?

279 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:21:05am

re: #273 jaunte

Wayne Allen Ross, appointed by Sarah Palin to be Atty General of Alaska during her short foray into being Governor. He was not approved.

280 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:21:19am

re: #269 dragonath

Killgore, you’re still operating under the illusion that OWS, Anon, et al. have any influence on the mainstream left. Most of the people I volunteered with in the Obama campaign were to the right of me, and didn’t even care about any of that stuff.

In comparison, almost all the Republican events I have had the misfortune of being associated with have featured ranting at liberals and socialists in the government.

but but but MBF!!!11ty!!!

281 jaunte  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:21:38am
282 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:21:43am

re: #278 erik_t

We have some folks right here with some odd ideas from the Republicans that are otherwise reasonable people. It’s stubbornness, and they really shouldn’t call themselves Republicans, but they are sane and self-identify as Republican at this time.

283 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:23:39am

re: #275 JeffFX

The thing I really love about LGF is that way people get called out on their bullshit. Sure it’s hard when the deeply cherished bullshit is my own, but it forces us all to be intellectually honest.

Unless you are Kilgore Trout. Then you can pollute, bullshit and thread jack every single day. Without any documentation, or serious rebut.

As Obdi says, its art, nothing more.

I add, art for attention.

284 Mattand  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:24:38am

re: #269 dragonath

Killgore, you’re still operating under the illusion that OWS, Anon, et al. have any influence on the mainstream left. Most of the people I volunteered with in the Obama campaign were to the right of me, and didn’t even care about any of that stuff.

In comparison, almost all the Republican events I have had the misfortune of being associated with have featured ranting at liberals and socialists in the government.

This is what kills me; there is a clear difference between what’s driving the two parties. To think that OWS and Anon are allowed near the dining room, let alone having a seat at the table, is just stupid.

On the other hand, Paul Ryan pretty much said today that he is pretty much willing to torch the economy if he doesn’t get what he wants. That’s Tea Bag 101, from supposedly one of the “serious budget wonks” in today’s GOP.

Also, this fear mongering over OWS is rapidly approaching “Old Man Ranting About Commies” territory.

285 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:27:54am

re: #283 Stanghazi

Unless you are Kilgore Trout.

Yes, but we can all see what he’s doing, and people are honest and direct about it. He influences no one.

286 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:38:46am

re: #285 JeffFX

Yes, but we can all see what he’s doing, and people are honest and direct about it. He influences no one.

True.

287 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:44:45am

re: #277 William Barnett-Lewis

Why bother?…

Simply put, because it is wrong. It shows a lack of integrity and a certain level of scorn for the readers. It could also mislead new members and/or casual passers by who aren’t familiar with his post-OWS history (I don’t recall him doing it before then).

288 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:45:31am

re: #285 JeffFX

Yes, but we can all see what he’s doing, and people are honest and direct about it. He influences no one.

re: #286 Stanghazi

But DKos does, no?

289 Shvaughn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:46:16am

re: #288 sattv4u2

re: #286 Stanghazi

But DKos does, no?

This seems like such a nonsequitur.

290 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:47:03am

re: #287 CuriousLurker

Simply put, because it is wrong. It shows a lack of integrity and a certain level of scorn for the readers. It could also mislead new members and/or casual passers by who aren’t familiar with his post-OWS history (I don’t recall him doing it before then).

iirc (which I believe i do) he was pretty hot and heavy on Tea Party nasty background and associations digging day in and day out

291 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:47:25am

re: #289 Shvaughn

This seems like such a nonsequitur.

Here, you can have one of my sequiturs!

292 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:48:34am

re: #288 sattv4u2

re: #286 Stanghazi

But DKos does, no?

Oh I love the fear of the Great Orange Satan that still persists.

The old days you guys could pull that shit out, KozKids etc. Most of us were eh?

We still are.

293 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:48:45am

re: #287 CuriousLurker

Simply put, because it is wrong. It shows a lack of integrity and a certain level of scorn for the readers. It could also mislead new members and/or casual passers by who aren’t familiar with his post-OWS history (I don’t recall him doing it before then).

While I agree with you, Imma put this here.

294 Shvaughn  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:49:33am

re: #293 erik_t

While I agree with you, Imma put this here.

Hey, I went to sleep last night after calling him out. :D

295 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:51:10am

re: #294 Shvaughn

Hey, I went to sleep last night after calling him out. :D

Then you did it wrong. And you did it wrong on the internet. I must point this out; I cannot go to bed.

(apropos)

296 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:51:20am

re: #282 JeffFX

We have some folks right here with some odd ideas from the Republicans that are otherwise reasonable people. It’s stubbornness, and they really shouldn’t call themselves Republicans, but they are sane and self-identify as Republican at this time.

Speaking of which, I want to bang my head against the wall because in the pages my opposition to Bushmasters for Kids™ means I’m against every gun publication ever.

YAAARGH

297 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:52:48am

I’ve been here a long time. I can remember when KT made valuable contributions to LGF. I enjoyed his gardening & cooking advice.

Sigh. Looking over the 2 LGF cookbooks, so many contributors have bitten the dust.

Time to put out a new cookbook for all the roast troll buttocks.

298 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:52:52am

re: #294 Shvaughn

re: #295 erik_t

It’s against the rules to go to bed while there’s still someone wrong on the Internet.

299 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:53:30am

re: #284 Mattand

Also, this fear mongering over OWS is rapidly approaching “Old Man Ranting About Commies” territory.

It got to that well over a year ago. I still don’t get why he pissed his panties over a bunch of kids protesting.

300 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:56:17am

Maybe Killgore was terrorized by drummers as a kid or something.

301 anonymous gun expert  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:58:21am

re: #300 dragonath

Maybe Killgore was terrorized by drummers as a kid or something.

perhaps it was a zombie army of clown drummers.

302 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:58:43am

re: #300 dragonath

Maybe Killgore was terrorized by drummers clowns as a kid or something.

ftfy

303 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:58:57am

The Art of Our Pale Blue Dot
By Phil Plait | Posted Sunday, Jan. 27, 2013, at 8:00 AM ET

It is a wonderful thing that words written many years ago can inspire people today. When Carl Sagan wrote his essay “Reflections on a Mote of Dust” (commonly called “Pale Blue Dot”), he must have known how special it was. His words were inspired by a picture taken from a spacecraft 6 billion kilometers away, a probe commanded to turn around and look at our solar system from this great distance. It was so terribly remote at the time that our entire planet appears as a simple pale blue dot, a single pixel of color in a vast patch of darkness…

304 RadicalModerate  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:59:38am

A quick thought:

One would think, with all of the Godwin-invoking that the Twitter nuts have done over the past week, that more than one of them would have acknowledged that today is International Holocaust Remembrance Day.

305 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 11:59:58am

re: #290 sattv4u2

iirc (which I believe i do) he was pretty hot and heavy on Tea Party nasty background and associations digging day in and day out

I remember that as well. I wasn’t referring to the things he says that are true—and he does still tell the truth—the problem is when he misrepresents things, which he’s been doing with annoying regularity for a while now.

The issue wasn’t whether or not DKos influences people, people are upset because KT started off by framing his comment as Dkos accuses the Obama regime of killing hacker, and then proceeded to use a quote by Anonymous from the article in a way that made it appear is if the author at DKos had said it. He hadn’t, he was just quoting Anonymous the same way Charles & the rest of us quote the crazy crap Geller or Beck or Louie Gohmert or whoever says.

306 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:00:27pm

re: #297 Vicious Babushka

{sigh} indeed

Time to put out a new cookbook for all the roast troll buttocks.

I’d prefer lighter, tastier fare, much like the 1st two editions thankyouverymuch

307 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:01:11pm

re: #300 dragonath

I hate you fast typers!!!
//

308 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:01:28pm

re: #305 CuriousLurker

Ugh, typos. Fixed now.

309 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:01:55pm

re: #308 CuriousLurker

Ugh, typos. Fixed now.

I liked it the 1st way!!!

310 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:02:34pm

re: #304 RadicalModerate

A quick thought:

One would think, with all of the Godwin-invoking that the Twitter nuts have done over the past week, that more than one of them would have acknowledged that today is International Holocaust Remembrance Day.

They are still seething in a frenzy of Benghazi-ghazi-ghazi-stan

311 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:04:25pm

re: #310 Vicious Babushka

They are still seething in a frenzy of Benghazi-ghazi-ghazi-stan

Heeeeey

312 Bubblehead II  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:04:52pm

re: #304 RadicalModerate

Quite a bit happened on this Day in History

313 RadicalModerate  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:05:14pm

re: #310 Vicious Babushka

They are still seething in a frenzy of Benghazi-ghazi-ghazi-stan

What’s really bizarre is the fact that some of them had the audacity to use the term “Benghazi holocaust”.

314 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:06:17pm

re: #304 RadicalModerate

A quick thought:

One would think, with all of the Godwin-invoking that the Twitter nuts have done over the past week, that more than one of them would have acknowledged that today is International Holocaust Remembrance Day.

Uh, I guess Berlusconi doesn’t count.

315 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:06:35pm

I cannot believe it is only noon.

This is the longest weekend of my life.

316 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:07:18pm

re: #311 Stanghazi

Heeeeey

I keep wanting to change my name, but alas, that time has not arrived.

317 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:07:53pm

re: #315 Stanghazi

I cannot believe it is only noon.

This is the longest weekend of my life.

Last I saw, you were awaiting a correspondence of some sort about going back to work on Monday. Did that happen?

318 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:09:03pm

re: #317 sattv4u2

Last I saw, you were awaiting a correspondence of some sort about going back to work on Monday. Did that happen?

So far we are going back. Amazing. I’m dreading it so bad.

And no, MO FO’S I’m not packing one box for you. Bad back or whatever.

319 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:10:17pm

re: #317 sattv4u2

Last I saw, you were awaiting a correspondence of some sort about going back to work on Monday. Did that happen?

I had a dream I was driving back to college. Was hauling ass to make registration.

to take one from you

*sigh*

320 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:11:31pm

re: #313 RadicalModerate

What’s really bizarre is the fact that some of them had the audacity to use the term “Benghazi holocaust”.

283 US Marines killed in Beirut under Reagan
11 US Embassies attacked, 53 killed under Bush
4,000 Americans killed on 9/11 under Bush
20 kids killed at Sandy Hook on 12/14

TOTAL SILENCE from RWNJ’s.

321 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:12:37pm

Correction: RWNJ’s only mention Sandy Hook to say:

ITZ A CONSPIRAZY 2 TAEK AWAY ARE GUNZ!1!

322 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:13:12pm

Stay classy, TGDN

323 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:13:31pm

re: #320 Vicious Babushka

283 US Marines killed in Beirut under Reagan
11 US Embassies attacked, 53 killed under Bush
4,000 Americans killed on 9/11 under Bush
20 kids killed at Sandy Hook on 12/14

TOTAL SILENCE from RWNJ’s.

On the last two, Americans of all political stripes were anything but ‘silent”

I’d have to go back to archives re: the 1st two

324 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:13:50pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

It was a massive loss of credibility for those who claimed to be against radicalism and political violence.

Like when you gleefully talked about how awesome it was to watch two women get assaulted, and (incorrectly) called them Marxist trust funders?

Yeah, your credibility took a big hit on that one.

325 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:14:22pm

hmmm

dogs
leashes
me
YOU do the math!!

bbl

326 jaunte  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:15:03pm
327 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:15:27pm

Liberated Malians celebrate, French-led forces clear Timbuktu

Among the celebrating Gao crowds, many smoked cigarettes, women went unveiled and some men wore shorts to flout the severe sharia Islamic law the rebels had imposed for months. Youths on motorcycles flew the flags of Mali, France and Niger, whose troops also helped secure the ancient town on the Niger River.

“Now we can breathe freely,” said Hawa Toure, 25, wearing a colorful traditional African robe banned under sharia for being too revealing. “We are as free as the wind today. We thank all of our friends around the world who helped us,” she said.

328 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:22:06pm

google: best way to clean a cafe presse

it turns out that there is no good way to clean a cafe presse

329 jaunte  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:24:31pm

Republicans Seeking Unity as Tea Party Targets McConnell

“The replacement of elected officials not committed to and demonstrating the principles of limited government, free markets and fiscal responsibility is a mission of the UKTP,” the United Kentucky Tea Party said in its release targeting the fifth-term senator who is up for re-election in 2014.

Irate at McConnell’s legislative record and recent role in cutting tax-and-spending deals with Obama, leaders of Tea Party- affiliated groups met Jan. 12 in Kentucky to discuss recruiting a primary opponent for him. Yet nobody has come forward to target McConnell, 70, whose $6.8 million in campaign cash and formidable political standing has helped to dissuade would-be opponents.

Some Tea Party leaders in Kentucky say they’re reluctant to incite a Republican feud that might cost the party the seat.

“I am not sold on the idea of running a candidate against McConnell — it’s a huge risk,” said Sarah Durand, president of the Louisville Tea Party, who refused to sign onto the UKTP statement.

330 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:25:26pm

re: #322 Vicious Babushka

Stay classy, TGDN

HURR DURR DERP

*facepalm at RWNJs*

331 engineer cat  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:25:33pm

OWS: some nice young folks getting together to talk about serious issues and have a party, a phenomenon that took place in the past

Anon: some punks

Tea Party: co-owns the republican party along with rich fucks who don’t wanna pay taxes

332 RadicalModerate  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:26:49pm

re: #327 Killgore Trout

Liberated Malians celebrate, French-led forces clear Timbuktu

I wonder how the France-hating rightwingers are gonna spin this one, given that French ground troops were instrumental in the liberation of Mali.

333 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:27:20pm

Oh, here is a Sandy Hook tweet.


Why are those 20 kindergarten kids more precious than billions of fetuses!1!

334 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:28:32pm

re: #331 engineer cat

Nah, OWS really did have a problem from the start: it was half people who wanted political action, and half people who thought the whole political system was irretrievably broken and were ideological non-voters. A lot them followed the same “Not much difference between Obama and Romney” line of reasoning Killgore did.

They also mutated as they went along, so that as time progressed only the most die-hard elements remained.

But your overall point is true: OWS never was in the least bit mainstreamed. The comparison really isn’t between OWS and the Tea Party, it’s OWS and the GOP. The GOP may have some ‘reasonable’ people in it like OWS did, but they’re paralyzed from acting by the radicals.

335 Jalal bin Smokin?  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:29:03pm
336 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:29:07pm

re: #333 Vicious Babushka

Latch onto one really wrong idea, #abortionismurder, and wind up insane from your delusional worldview. So go many lives.

337 anonymous gun expert  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:29:21pm

re: #333 Vicious Babushka

Oh, here is a Sandy Hook tweet.

Because we know that no one in the world had an abortion when Bush or Reagan lived in the White House.

338 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:29:22pm

re: #333 Vicious Babushka

Oh, here is a Sandy Hook tweet.

betseyross
Conservative activist: Q isn’t who will let me, it’s who will stop me ~Ayn Rand. Love God,family,America,glittery stuff,Glock #teaparty #lnyhbt #TGDN #ncpol

Er, uh, um, uh… Ayn Rand was strongly pro-choice.

339 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:29:31pm

re: #334 Obdicut

OccupySandy kicked ass.

340 jaunte  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:29:42pm

re: #335 Old Salt

Purity party, still engaged in therapeutic shrinkage.

341 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:29:59pm

re: #334 Obdicut

They also mutated as they went along, so that as time progressed only the most die-hard elements remained.

This is by far the most critical point and should be brayed from every rooftop. There was a version of OWS that did our political discourse a massive favor.

342 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:30:34pm

re: #332 RadicalModerate

I wonder how the France-hating rightwingers are gonna spin this one, given that French ground troops were instrumental in the liberation of Mali.

They probably bitch about the US not being involved enough. We do need to rethink the way we offer support for these sorts of things. Since WWII we’ve been driving some really hard bargains. 200 year leases to build permanent military bases, unlimited use of airspace, probably a lot of mandatory business deals, mineral rights, etc. Sometimes we should back off and do more stuff because it’s the right thing to do.

343 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:31:34pm

re: #341 erik_t

This is by far the most critical point and should be brayed from every rooftop. There was a version of OWS that did our political discourse a massive favor.

I really still don’t know if OWS just surfed that wave or helped to make it. But it’s a moot point. I’m glad that however it surfaced, income inequality and the falsehood of the ‘job creator’ meme was talked about.

344 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:31:40pm

re: #338 Gus

betseyross
Conservative activist: Q isn’t who will let me, it’s who will stop me ~Ayn Rand. Love God,family,America,glittery stuff,Glock #teaparty #lnyhbt #TGDN #ncpol

Er, uh, um, uh… Ayn Rand was strongly pro-choice.

I wish I had a dollar for every anti-choice RWNJ who hearts Ayn Rand

345 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:31:59pm

re: #341 erik_t

This is by far the most critical point and should be brayed from every rooftop. There was a version of OWS that did our political discourse a massive favor.

99% vs 1% will be remembered in history as a huge factor in our times and this past election.

346 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:32:45pm

re: #340 jaunte

Purity party, still engaged in therapeutic shrinkage.

347 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:33:51pm

re: #345 Stanghazi

99% vs 1% will be remembered in history as a huge factor in our times and this past election.

And it was obvious that this scared the shit out of the 1% and the GOP election.

Therefore all the RW loudmouths started screaming RAPE, STABBING, ANARCHISTS

It was coordinated. And people fell for it, the movement was killed.

348 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:35:45pm

re: #347 Stanghazi

The movement really did have a fundamental problem, as I said above, a conflict between those who wanted to sign people up to vote and support progressive Democrats and fight in the traditional power structure, and those who honestly think that our system is beyond repair and honestly think that the Democrats are almost as culpable as the Republicans. The consensus-based decision-making bit meant that this was never going to be really resolved, meaning that it was really difficult for anything to come out of OWS that was still “OWS” and wasn’t purely symbolic.

349 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:35:45pm

re: #346 Gus

Purity Party

If anyone who isn’t a chemist starts talking to you about “purity”, back away fast!

350 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:36:05pm

re: #347 Stanghazi

It was coordinated. And people fell for it, the movement was killed.

I don’t think it ever had much potential as a movement, per se. It had value as a signal. The signal happened, the most extreme fringe took control (as always happens in any such group), and things ran their course.

Someone did, of course, forget to inform the diehards that they had run their course.

351 anonymous gun expert  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:38:08pm

re: #344 Vicious Babushka

I wish I had a dollar for every anti-choice RWNJ who hearts Ayn Rand

You would be in the top 1% and would start arguing for lower taxes on the “job creators.”

352 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:38:44pm

re: #348 Obdicut

re: #350 erik_t

Totally get your points. They are legitimate.

I guess when OWS is dissed, all I go back to is 99 vs 1 and how successful that was.

353 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:39:09pm

re: #347 Stanghazi

And it was obvious that this scared the shit out of the 1% and the GOP election.

Therefore all the RW loudmouths started screaming RAPEY STABBY ANARCHISTS

It was coordinated. And people fell for it, the movement was killed.

FTFY…

354 RadicalModerate  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:40:24pm

re: #333 Vicious Babushka

Oh, here is a Sandy Hook tweet.

And these same people in all likelyhood have absolutely no issue with this:

Suit reveals ties among radical abortion opponents

The ongoing support for [Scott] Roeder also is apparent in the appeal of his murder conviction. Seven abortion opponents who asked in 2010 and 2011 to file friend-of-the-court briefs were spurned without comment by the Kansas Supreme Court. Other activists are now writing legal briefs for Roeder to file himself, arguing Tiller’s death was necessary to defend the unborn. No oral arguments are scheduled in his appeal.

The Rev. Don Spitz of Virginia, who runs the Army of God website, which supports violence against abortion providers and clinics, is helping Roeder with correspondence.

Roeder likes to “debate” with people who write and often asks Spitz to mail them a militant anti-abortion book written by Paul Hill, a Florida man who was executed for murdering an abortion provider in 1994, Spitz said. Roeder also asks him to send them the book written by the Rev. Michael Bray, an Ohio activist and author of “A Time to Kill,” which defends using lethal force to protect the unborn.

355 erik_t  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:41:15pm

re: #348 Obdicut

The movement really did have a fundamental problem, as I said above

Speaking frankly, there was also the problem of New York City being located in a place with winter. I’m not sure it would have collapsed into quite the same morass of fringe goobers if our financial center were in, say, Atlanta.

356 Bubblehead II  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:41:55pm

re: #332 RadicalModerate

I wonder how the France-hating rightwingers are gonna spin this one, given that French ground troops were instrumental in the liberation of Mali.

They will probably point out that it took the U.S. Military providing transport planes and aerial refueling for them to even get there to let alone fight.

357 Political Atheist  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:42:03pm

re: #348 Obdicut

With Occupy LA the deliberate lack of official leadership kinda ensured the message never tried to have coherence. Flat committees just are not the best structure for economic advocacy. Maybe any advocacy. A clear concise spokesperson or persons would have helped a great deal.

358 Obdicut  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:45:42pm

re: #355 erik_t

Speaking frankly, there was also the problem of New York City being located in a place with winter. I’m not sure it would have collapsed into quite the same morass of fringe goobers if our financial center were in, say, Atlanta.

I think it would have because the ideological non-voters weren’t really open to conversion by the ones who wanted to engage with the political process. I guess it could have split in a semi-organized fashion, but I bet that friction would have been too much.

One thing it really taught me is the need for community organizers. There were a lot of normal-but-fed-up people there, the problems they were complaining about were real, but it was just so disorganized and so full of people who thought that expressing themselves was the ne plus ultra of political action.

360 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:49:12pm

OT, but have to share cause it is a def LOL

This morning I went out to get my coffee. Low budget concerns means that’s at the local AM/PM (pronounced Ahm Pahm) Good coffee, no doubt.

Leaving the gate of my complex, I see this pile of trash in the middle of the turn around - looked like a fast food bag. Assholes!

Well I came back & was closer to the bag and there were 3 medical marijuana canisters sitting there. I’m waiting for the gate to open, staring at them.

Got out, and grabbed. I’m on camera. There be buds.

361 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:52:35pm

WTF?? How many conservatives have been Reaper-droned?

362 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:54:16pm
363 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:55:20pm

Howdy lizards. They are forecasting freezing rain tonight. I’m not looking forward to the drive to work in the morning.

364 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:56:42pm

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

It’s hailing in the Chicago suburbs right now.

365 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:56:46pm

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

Howdy lizards. They are forecasting freezing rain tonight. I’m not looking forward to the drive to work in the morning.

Maybe you better go now.

/

366 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:57:23pm

re: #360 Stanghazi

OT, but have to share cause it is a def LOL

This morning I went out to get my coffee. Low budget concerns means that’s at the local AM/PM (pronounced Ahm Pahm) Good coffee, no doubt.

Leaving the gate of my complex, I see this pile of trash in the middle of the turn around - looked like a fast food bag. Assholes!

Well I came back & was closer to the bag and there were 3 medical marijuana canisters sitting there. I’m waiting for the gate to open, staring at them.

Got out, and grabbed. I’m on camera. There be buds.

I’ll be there in an hour. /

367 jaunte  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 12:57:44pm

The League of Dangerous Mapmakers

Robert Draper:

Who’s most to blame for our divisive politics? How about the gerrymanderers quietly deciding where your vote goes. Inside the dark art and modern science of making democracy a lot less democratic.
…….
“…Hofeller’s helpful tips give way to the sinister warnings of a gimlet-eyed, semi-­clandestine political operative: “Make sure your security is real.” “Make sure your computer is in a PRIVATE location.” “ ‘Emails are the tool of the devil.’ Use personal contact or a safe phone!” “Don’t reveal more than necessary.” “BEWARE of non­-partisan, or bi­-partisan, staff bearing gifts. They probably are not your friends.”

Be discreet. Plan ahead. Follow the law. Don’t overreach. Tom Hofeller relishes the blood sport of redistricting, but there is a responsible way—as Hofeller himself demonstrated this past cycle in the artful (if baldly partisan) redrawing of North Carolina’s maps—and also a reckless way. So that his message will penetrate, he tells audiences horror stories about states that ignored his warnings and went with maps that either were tossed out by the federal courts or created more political problems than they solved.

Already Hofeller has picked out which cautionary tale he will relay during the next decennial tour. The new horror story, he’s decided, will be Texas, which stood, this past cycle, as a powerful example of how reckless a redistricting process can become. That mangled effort also provides a stark contrast to the maps Hofeller helped create in North Carolina—­drawings that demonstrate how in the blood sport of redistricting, the most cravenly political results are won with calculating prudence.”

369 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:08:12pm
370 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:09:58pm

re: #355 erik_t

I’m not sure it would have collapsed into quite the same morass of fringe goobers if our financial center were in, say, Atlanta.

I live (outside of, work in) Atlanta

Trust me. Those ‘fringe goobers” were out in force here

371 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:10:59pm

re: #369 wrenchwench

Subtle humor, but it’s true.

372 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:11:32pm

re: #368 NJDhockeyfan

I wasn’t too thrilled how those Google executives went over there after the satellite launch.

373 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:11:41pm

re: #368 NJDhockeyfan

I’ve always wondered about your google alerts.

yuck

374 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:13:26pm

I’m moving out of this dump and into a moderately less dumpy dump next month, and part of my “packing” strategy has been to get rid of as much of my crap as possible. Holy moley, it sure is easy to accumulate a lot of crap without trying.

At the insistence of a friend who’s much more experienced with it than I am, I turned to Craigslist. It has been quite an experience to say the least.

Some of the stuff (namely a mid-80s 4x12 Marshall speaker cabinet, a Carvin X100-B head that I really hated to part with, and a small assortment of old Boss and DOD pedals) sold right away, to likable upstanding folks who I’m sure will use it well.

Other stuff has been very difficult to sell (like a 32” CRT television, for example) and the hard-to-move stuff seems to attract weirdos and scammers for some reason.

Here’s an example of one reply I got after I answered a reasonable question about the TV.

Thanks for getting back to me , The price is okay by me , I won’t be coming down to look on it, as i’m so busy for now and i’m presenting it to my Brother In-law cos when i visited i don’t like what i saw. I will appreciate if you can send me more closer picture but if not there no problem. My mode of payment is via Certified Bank check or Money Order check cos its more safer to me and i have been using that to buy items on Craigslist without any problem. Once you have the check i will wait until the check is clear in your bank before any procedure. In order to do this i need full name and address and contact # in which you want the check to be mail to and what name.

My shipper will come for the pick up as soon as payment is certified. Also I will be adding an excess to the payment on the check that will be sent to you which you will send the the balance to my shipper for their shipping cost. I’m asking you to do this for me cos my schedule for now is very tight. Once again am gonna wait until the check is clear by your bank before any procedure

Regards.

That sounds like every 419 scam I’ve ever seen. {delete}

Another person wanted me to come to him — at night, no less — so he could look at a not-exactly-cheap guitar I’m selling. The address he gave turned out to be a car wash in a very dodgy part of town. So many things wrong with that, I don’t even know where to start.

And of course, the whole time I’m doing this, all I can think of is the following:

375 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:14:50pm

re: #369 wrenchwench

Is this the same German twitter guy as before? Or are bad German puns a thing now?

376 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:16:13pm

re: #368 NJDhockeyfan

OMG! Please not be true.

North Korean cannibalism fears amid claims starving people ‘eat children and corpses’

The continued implosion of the North Korean country may be behind the new round of antagonism. Unfortunately, I fear the leadership and military are so brainwashed that they will lash out violently against South Korea, Japan, and if they can reach us, America rather than go quietly.

377 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:17:12pm

re: #375 dragonath

Is this the same German twitter guy as before? Or are bad German puns a thing now?

Same, guy, new name. You can tell by the avatar. (And by the fact that I remained as a follower during the change without having to do anything.)

378 Skeetghazi  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:17:22pm

re: #374 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Done it. It is so crazy/risky/ridiculous.

Follow your gut. No less.

And good luck!

379 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:17:55pm

re: #355 erik_t

Speaking frankly, there was also the problem of New York City being located in a place with winter. I’m not sure it would have collapsed into quite the same morass of fringe goobers if our financial center were in, say, Atlanta.

Phoenix may be a good example.

380 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:19:24pm

re: #370 sattv4u2

I’m not sure it would have collapsed into quite the same morass of fringe goobers if our financial center were in, say, Atlanta.

I live (outside of, work in) Atlanta

Trust me. Those ‘fringe goobers” were out in force here

We’re a nexus of fringe goobers, I mean come on, AM750 is the home station of Boortz (until he retired), Erick Erickson, Herman Cain…

*sigh*

381 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:21:30pm

re: #371 TedStriker

Subtle humor, but it’s true.

My Berlin-living brother gave us some defunct Marx Marks.

382 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:23:01pm

re: #381 wrenchwench

My Berlin-living brother gave us some defunct Marx Marks.

Is this him??

Image: Marky-Mark-mark-wahlberg-1410079-314-475.jpg

383 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:25:28pm

re: #382 sattv4u2

Is this him??

Image: Marky-Mark-mark-wahlberg-1410079-314-475.jpg

Well, there was a wall in that berg…

384 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:25:29pm

re: #382 sattv4u2

Your pic…the internets eated it.

385 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:26:25pm

re: #384 TedStriker

Your pic…the internets eated it.

See it fine here. Looks as if wench did too

386 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:26:34pm

re: #384 TedStriker

Your pic…the internets eated it.

Right click, ‘open in new tab’, if you like Marky Mark pecs pix.

387 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:27:43pm

re: #386 wrenchwench

Right click, ‘open in new tab’, if you like Marky Mark pecs pix.

pucks pix

Image: puck.jpg

388 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:28:16pm

re: #385 sattv4u2

re: #386 wrenchwench

Ahh, got it…NoScript was blocking it.

389 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:28:54pm

re: #387 sattv4u2

pucks pix

Image: puck.jpg

Got this again:

The requested content cannot be loaded.
Please try again later.

And my trick didn’t work, either.

390 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:31:11pm

re: #389 wrenchwench

Got this again:

And my trick didn’t work, either.

The internets really did eated that one, satt.

391 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:31:46pm

re: #390 TedStriker

The internets really did eated that one, satt.

Hey. I can’t be expected to be feeding all of you all day long!!!

392 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:32:18pm

I saw it!

393 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:34:01pm

re: #377 wrenchwench

Same, guy, new name. You can tell by the avatar. (And by the fact that I remained as a follower during the change without having to do anything.)

Someone hijacked his original username. If anyone can explain how this is possible, I’d love to know.

Trivia: the person is actually an American with a hilariously in-depth knowledge of 19th century German philosophers.

394 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:36:35pm

re: #393 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

I Kant believe it’s not German!

395 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:37:01pm

re: #394 dragonath

I Kant believe it’s not German!

*groan*

396 TedStriker  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:37:48pm

re: #383 wrenchwench

Well, there was a wall in that berg…

More subtle humor there…took me a few minutes to get it.

398 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:41:16pm

re: #393 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Someone hijacked his original username. If anyone can explain how this is possible, I’d love to know.

Trivia: the person is actually an American with a hilariously in-depth knowledge of 19th century German philosophers.

I guess you lose claim to your old nic when you adopt a new one using the process that keeps your followers. Still, not good. Twitter should fix that.

He’s good with the 20th century too, Frankfurt School especially, which I dabbled in in college. Just enough to appreciate his humor.

399 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:42:41pm

re: #397 Varek Raith

Austerity Fails: European Nations See Debt Grow Despite Deep Spending Cuts

You’d think they’d have learned after watching the IMF impose austerity on third world countries for decades.

400 Bubblehead II  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:47:15pm

re: #393 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

“Someone hijacked his original username. If anyone can explain how this is possible, I’d love to know.”

You Might Have Gotten An Email From Twitter About Your Account Being Compromised, It’s Real

November 8th 2012.

401 wrenchwench  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:50:15pm

OK, I’m going to work on unburying my desk(s).

*engages lurk mode*

402 gwangung  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:51:03pm

re: #399 wrenchwench

You’d think they’d have learned after watching the IMF impose austerity on third world countries for decades.

Irony. Austerity is the one area where the conservatives DO want to follow the Europeans.

403 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:51:07pm

re: #397 Varek Raith

Austerity Fails: European Nations See Debt Grow Despite Deep Spending Cuts

Sometimes it’s just common sense, I mean I’m a libertarian and I think austerity is the wrong solution for the current problem. Once the economy has recovered more, then it’d make sense, but right now? Austerity is like bleeding a patient after a stab wound.

404 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:53:54pm

re: #399 wrenchwench

You’d think they’d have learned after watching the IMF impose austerity on third world countries for decades.

Actually, that’s not what the AP article that TP referenced indicates. The AP article said that the debt has stabilized.

The countries’ total government debt relative to their annual economic output was barely changed at 90 percent of gross domestic product in the third quarter of 2012 compared with 89.9 percent for three months earlier, the EU’s statistics office Eurostat reported. It was up from 86.8 percent of GDP a year earlier.

“The cause behind the slight increase is no longer a growing debt pile, but a shrinking gross domestic product,” said Ulrich Kater, an economist with Germany’s DekaBank.

“It is positive news that the trend of increasing debt, which began with the financial crisis five years ago, has been stopped,” he added.

Debt is 90 percent of the Eurozone GDP average — I’ll assume. Reuters breaks it down as:

Debt in Ireland, where a burst real estate bubble forced the country into an international bailout, reached 117 percent of economic output in the quarter, while the number was 127 percent in Italy. Spain saw its burden tick up to 77 percent of GDP, and the Commission sees it reaching 97 percent in 2014.

Going back to AP their debt is actually better than the USA.

Government debt across the entire 27-nation EU totaled 85.1 percent at the end of September, compared with 85 percent in June, according to Eurostat. The European debt levels compare to about 110 percent in the United States, 88 percent in Canada, or 240 percent in Japan, according to IMF data.

Spain’s unemployment currently stands around 26 percent. This is not sustainable. There’s more to this than austerity and sound bites therein. The key to success will be an economic recovery.

405 Bubblehead II  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:54:26pm

re: #401 wrenchwench

OK, I’m going to work on unburying my desk(s).

*engages lurk mode*

Every time my manager makes me clean up my work bench I end up disproving my theory of anti-gravity.

406 Targetpractice  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:54:31pm

re: #397 Varek Raith

Austerity Fails: European Nations See Debt Grow Despite Deep Spending Cuts

Well, obviously they just haven’t cut enough! More leeches!

407 Gus  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:54:33pm

Later.

408 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:55:30pm

re: #375 dragonath

Is this the same German twitter guy as before? Or are bad German puns a thing now?

The account used to be @ShitGermansSay but it’s the same guy.

409 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:56:19pm

re: #404 Gus

There’s more to this than austerity and sound bites therein.

yes, especially seeing there’s no mention of the effects of something FROM THE SAME SENTENCE

as meager growth offset efforts by several of the bloc’s 17 nations to improve their finances by cutting spending and raising taxes,

410 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:56:27pm

re: #404 Gus

Actually, that’s not what the AP article that TP referenced indicates. The AP article said that the debt has stabilized.

Debt is 90 percent of the Eurozone GDP average — I’ll assume. Reuters breaks it down as:

Going back to AP their debt is actually better than the USA.

Spain’s unemployment currently stands around 26 percent. This is not sustainable. There’s more to this than austerity and sound bites therein. The key to success will be an economic recovery.

Ok, still, the measures are now shrinking their GDP which has the side effect of stabilizing their debt.
I think…

411 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 1:57:39pm

re: #403 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

Sometimes it’s just common sense, I mean I’m a libertarian and I think austerity is the wrong solution for the current problem. Once the economy has recovered more, then it’d make sense, but right now? Austerity is like bleeding a patient after a stab wound.

Your economy is stagnant because money isn’t flowing on a large scale. Do you:

1. {something}
2. {something else}
3. Severely cut spending so even less money is flowing

I don’t think it takes a postgraduate education to understand why the frugality that works for an individual household is disastrous for a city / state / country, but wtf do I know.

412 Varek Raith  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 2:01:07pm

re: #409 sattv4u2

There’s more to this than austerity and sound bites therein.
yes, especially seeing there’s no mention of the effects of something FROM THE SAME SENTENCE
as meager growth offset efforts by several of the bloc’s 17 nations to improve their finances by cutting spending and raising taxes,

I have 50 years of US tax history that completely disprove this. Look at the period conservatives long for. The 50s. What was the tax rate then? What was our economic growth?
Yeah.
;)

413 dragonath  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 2:13:31pm

Using the 50s as an analogue is tricky- the top tax rate was high but environmental regulation was pretty much nil. The right likes to point to that, even though Americans, and many others, are still paying for it.

414 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 2:16:02pm

re: #413 dragonath

Using the 50s as an analogue is tricky- the top tax rate was high but environmental regulation was pretty much nil. The right likes to point to that, even though Americans, and many others, are still paying for it.

Also, the work force and economy were still transitioning from the wartime production of the mid to late 40’s to the (more) private sector enterprises needed to accommodate the increase in birth rates (see; Baby Boomers)

((i.e..,,, the burgeoning suburbs,,the ease of home ownership through the Veterans Administration and Federal Housing Administration mortgages. More people were beginning families, and having a family meant moving from a one bedroom apartment to owning a house)) All those things created jobs due to demands for goods and services

415 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 2:16:46pm

Ah well

Finish this another time perhaps

Have to hit the shower and meet Mrs Satty for dinner

416 JeffFX  Sun, Jan 27, 2013 2:40:42pm

re: #413 dragonath

Using the 50s as an analogue is tricky- the top tax rate was high but environmental regulation was pretty much nil. The right likes to point to that, even though Americans, and many others, are still paying for it.

They might have some sort of point there. I suppose it’s a lot easier to pay taxes if you can loot the commons for person gain. You’re really just kicking some of your own ill-gotten gains back into the system that allows your bad behavior, rather than honestly earned money, so it probably feels different.

Now they have to pay taxes to a government that wont let them set rivers on fire, and that’s tyranny.


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