National Review: God Decrees Man Should Be Armed to the Teeth

Don’t mess with the Man Upstairs
Wingnuts • Views: 32,619

The arguments of pro-gun fanatics are getting more and more absurd.

In the National Review, David French isn’t satisfied with just citing the Constitution or the founding fathers any more; he’s making the ultimate appeal to authority: The Biblical and Natural Right of Self-Defense.

His argument is that God decreed “man” should be armed to the teeth with high-powered semi-automatic weapons, because Bible. Hey, are you gonna argue with God? Get thee to a gun store, sinner!

I’m always amazed at how many wingnut writers pretend to have a direct line to the Almighty. It’s one of the biggest snow jobs conservative pundits pull on their followers.

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221 comments
1 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:49:11am

Something something sword plowshare.

2 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:49:26am

Because telling a man he has to actually fill out some paper work to own a high-capacity semi-automatic rifle or preventing him from purchasing an anti-tank missile interferes with his religious rights.

Jesus died for your right to own military grade weapons.

3 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:50:25am
“Moreover, these fundamental laws of nature were inseparable from the will of God”

Well, that’s it then, game over. Or would you prefer the plague of frogs?

4 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:50:29am

re: #2 Kragar

Because telling a man he has to actually fill out some paper work to own a high-capacity semi-automatic rifle or preventing him from purchasing an anti-tank missile interferes with his religious rights.

Jesus died for your right to own military grade weapons.

In that case, shouldn’t guns be free, and shouldn’t the right apply to all humans?

6 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:51:42am

re: #4 b_sharp

In that case, shouldn’t guns be free, and shouldn’t the right apply to all humans?

Jesus really only loves the people rich enough to afford them.

That is why they are rich you see.

7 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:52:06am

Heh, for some reason earlier, I thought Frum had wrote this- nah, it’s David French.

Check out his archiveghazi

8 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:53:09am

Because as we all remember from Sunday school, Jesus fought off the Romans with his AK-47 and then had them nailed to crosses for his sins.

///

9 Tigger2  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:53:29am

If it was Gods will people owned guns, you wouldn’t have to buy them, they would just appear in your house.

10 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:53:49am

re: #8 Targetpractice

Because as we all remember from Sunday school, Jesus fought off the Romans with his AK-47 and then had them nailed to crosses for his sins.

I always thought sermons from the Furious Conservative Action Bible would be more fun.

11 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:54:45am

And we call the people running the Iranian regime crazy……….

12 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:56:42am

re: #1 erik_t

Something something sword plowshare.

That was the pussy hippie Jesus that died on the cross. You are mistaking him for the resurrected killer kick ass Jesus who is coming to kill everyone but 100,000 American WASPs.

13 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:57:13am

I think half these religious guys think the second coming is going to be Jesus riding a velociraptor with exploding laser eyes, so it’s best to stock up.

Jesus- he’s finished trying to get through to you punks

14 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:57:54am

re: #8 Targetpractice

Because as we all remember from Sunday school, Jesus fought off the Romans with his AK-47 and then had them nailed to crosses for his sins.

///

So owning a gun didn’t make Jesus any safer either…..

15 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:58:24am

re: #9 Tigger2

No, because Free Market. Jesus chased the soshulists out of the temple for giving free stuff away. //

16 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:59:15am

re: #15 Bulworth

No, because Free Market. Jesus chased the soshulists out of the temple for giving free stuff away. //

Don’t change money. Money, and by extension capitalism, is perfect the way it is!

17 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:59:23am

re: #13 dragonath

I think half these religious guys think the second coming is going to be Jesus riding a velociraptor with exploding laser eyes, so it’s best to stock up.

You mean he is not? But I bought all this overpriced gold and barrels of survival seeds. Jesus owes me a genocide!

18 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:59:33am

“Know this! What will come to pass is no longer war! It is endless sacrifice in His name. Blood for the Blood God… let the universe drown in it!” - Free Market Jesus

19 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:01:59pm

The Jesus pic with the gun is a nice touch. Although I suspect the people at NRO will not get the joke. They’ll think it’s the best Jesus representation ever.

20 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:02:40pm

re: #19 Bulworth

The Jesus pic with the gun is a nice touch. Although I suspect the people at NRO will not get the joke. They’ll think it’s the best Jesus representation ever.

The middle finger is the cherry on top.

21 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:02:48pm

I’m sticking with my Ark of the Covenant area protection device, rather than a personal firearm. Much more comprehensive, selective, and righteous. If you’re a Nazi - especially an Illinois Nazi (or neo Nazi or scum sucking bottom dwelling archeologist) you’re screwed. Try to put one over on the Almighty? Heh. And all that firepower wont do a damn thing.

Youtube Video
(yeah., the sound sucks)
22 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:03:32pm

Hmm, a reggae version of Louie Louie. I like this version much better.

Youtube Video
23 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:05:08pm

re: #21 lawhawk

I’m sticking with my Ark of the Covenant area protection device, rather than a personal firearm. Much more comprehensive, selective, and righteous. If you’re a Nazi - especially an Illinois Nazi (or neo Nazi or scum sucking bottom dwelling archeologist) you’re screwed. Try to put one over on the Almighty? Heh. And all that firepower wont do a damn thing.

[Embedded content]

(yeah., the sound sucks)

The Ark of the Covenant can be defeated by not opening your eyes. Seriously, if the Nazis kept their eyes closed they would all be alive.

24 Ian G.  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:06:25pm

On this note, what the hell happened to David Mamet? You wouldn’t expect a brilliant playwright to degenerate into spewing sub-Sarah Palin right-wing babbling points, but that seems to be exactly what has happened to him. It’s sad, really.

25 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:06:34pm

re: #23 Destro

The Ark of the Covenant can be defeated by not opening your eyes. Seriously, if the Nazis kept their eyes closed they would all be alive.

If you really pay attention, you realize Indiana Jones really accomplished absolutely nothing in the movie, except maybe make things worse.

27 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:07:24pm

re: #14 Destro

So owning a gun didn’t make Jesus any safer either…..

Just like how the slaves wouldn’t have been slaves if they weren’t denied their 2nd amendment rights (god I love that one) Jesus wouldn’t have been crucified if he was packing a .45 under his robes.

28 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:07:28pm

re: #25 Kragar

If you really pay attention, you realize Indiana Jones really accomplished absolutely nothing in the movie, except maybe make things worse.

George Lucas never paid attention to such petty details in his stories.

29 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:07:51pm

re: #26 Kragar

Stay classy, Rusty

30 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:09:02pm
First, it has always been clear that human life is precious — so precious, in fact, that throughout time God has mandated the ultimate penalty for unlawful killing. Among God’s first words to Noah after the Flood subsided was this declaration of the importance of human life and the price paid for spilling human blood:

So right after God finishes murdering the entire human race and every other land dwelling species, he says this? He’s clueless enough to be a writer for NRO.

31 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:09:08pm

re: #26 Kragar

Limbaugh: Obama ‘will send your women to combat’ but won’t let son ‘Trayvon’ play football

OH MY GAWD!!!! Obama is taking our penises away!!!!! I need a big gun quick to compensate ! (and in Rush’s case, lot’s of blue pills).

32 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:09:39pm

re: #30 Skip Intro

So right after God finishes murdering the entire human race and every other land dwelling species, he says this? He’s clueless enough to be a writer for NRO.

Apparently, the Almighty was bi-polar.

33 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:10:34pm

re: #30 Skip Intro

So right after God finishes murdering the entire human race and every other land dwelling species, he says this? He’s clueless enough to be a writer for NRO.

and thus was born the saying “Do as I say, not as I do”

34 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:10:50pm

Rush supports massive head trauma.

Its the only way he can keep listeners.

35 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:11:37pm

re: #30 Skip Intro

Among God’s first words to Noah after the Flood subsided was this declaration of the importance of human life and the price paid for spilling human blood:

God is bi-polar.

36 Jalal bin Smokin?  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:11:47pm

WWJS - Who Would Jesus Shoot?

37 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:12:12pm

Note to self: Sneezing while you have a mouth full of yogurt ends badly.

38 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:12:50pm
First, it has always been clear that human life is precious — so precious, in fact, that throughout time God has mandated the ultimate penalty for unlawful killing.

But there was room for an awful lot of ‘lawful’ killing in those days.

39 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:12:55pm

C’mon you know he’s right. I mean, how could Adam and Eve have lived in the Garden with the diny-sores without the AR-15s God gave them?

40 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:13:04pm

re: #37 Kragar

Hate when that happens.

41 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:13:19pm

re: #32 Ghost of Tom Joad

Apparently, the Almighty was bi-polar.

Twain was probably on the right track when he compared the old and new testament to Jekyll and Hyde.

42 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:13:48pm

things you may not have learned in school:

Reading, Writing & Religion II – a new report by the Texas Freedom Network — investigates public schools in Texas and the results are mind boggling. School kids are taught that the Bible gives scientific proof that the Earth is 6,000 years old, and the United States was founded as a Christian nation based on biblical Christian principles. At least one district’s Bible course includes materials suggesting that the origins of racial diversity among humans today can be traced back to a curse placed on Noah’s son in the biblical story of the flood.

43 calochortus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:15:42pm

re: #42 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

At least one district’s Bible course includes materials suggesting that the origins of racial diversity among humans today can be traced back to a curse placed on Noah’s son in the biblical story of the flood.

God burdened the Caucasians with the curse of sunburn?

44 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:15:45pm

re: #32 Ghost of Tom Joad

Apparently, the Almighty was bi-polar.

We though the same thing but you thought it first.

45 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:16:11pm

re: #36 Jalal bin Smokin

WWJS - Who Would Jesus Shoot?

The Jews. Come on it’s implied……

46 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:16:25pm

re: #43 calochortus

God burdened the Caucasians with the curse of sunburn?

Only some.

47 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:17:18pm

re: #42 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

things you may not have learned in school:

Let this be a lesson to you all. The bullshit stories you and your buddies swap while you’re out camping and drunk off your ass could one day inspire a worldwide religion.

Be careful.

48 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:17:38pm

re: #46 b_sharp

Only some.

Boehner the Blessed, the Never-Fade

49 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:17:41pm

re: #46 b_sharp

Not the English, surely. (Weather humor)

50 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:17:45pm

re: #42 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

things you may not have learned in school:

Garbage in, garbage out. A lot of the loonies we see today are nothing more than products of their education and upbringing as children. Sure, there’s bound to be some that gravitate towards bullshit as a matter of bad wiring, but I’d guess it’s mostly due to childhood indoctrination (Indoctrination Theory! /Nerd fist-bump if you get that).

51 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:18:19pm

re: #26 Kragar

Limbaugh: Obama ‘will send your women to combat’ but won’t let son ‘Trayvon’ play football

Trayvon? That’s low, even for Limbaugh.

We need a new unit, (call it the Limbaugh), to define a person’s descent down to absolute zero in humanity.

I’m going give this statement a temperature of 0 degrees Limbaugh, although I may have to adjust it upwards as I calibrate the scale.

52 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:19:24pm

re: #25 Kragar

If you really pay attention, you realize Indiana Jones really accomplished absolutely nothing in the movie, except maybe make things worse.

Well, technically he did keep it out of the hands of the Nazis, although I still have to wonder how he got the Ark off of the island, since it was one of their bases and had a substantial force there.

53 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:21:10pm

re: #51 Skip Intro

Trayvon? That’s low, even for Limbaugh.

We need a new unit, (call it the Limbaugh), to define a person’s descent down to absolute zero in humanity.

I’m going give this statement a temperature 0 degrees Limbaugh.

Knowing that douchecanoe, we probably need to make this a logarithmic scale.

54 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:21:31pm

re: #52 RadicalModerate

Well, technically he did keep it out of the hands of the Nazis, although I still have to wonder how he got the Ark off of the island, since it was one of their bases and had a substantial force there.

The Furher was about to pull out of the whole project and the intel the Nazis had was making them go and dig in the wrong place. The only reason they found it at all was Indy dug it up for them.

55 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:21:55pm

re: #51 Skip Intro

Trayvon? That’s low, even for Limbaugh.

We need a new unit, (call it the Limbaugh), to define a person’s descent down to absolute zero in humanity.

I’m going give this statement a temperature 0 degrees Limbaugh.

Does that mean that Jim Hoft succeeds in breaking the laws of physics?

(or is a black hole of derp an entirely different measurement altoghether?)

56 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:23:14pm

re: #54 Kragar

But America got it at the end!!

USA USA USA!!!

57 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:23:30pm

re: #54 Kragar

The Furher was about to pull out of the whole project and the intel the Nazis had was making them go and dig in the wrong place. The only reason they found it at all was Indy dug it up for them.

But they would have had the bejeweled sun-laser-trinket had Jones not intervened, wouldn’t they?

I confess it’s been a number of years since I’ve seen the movie.

58 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:23:40pm

re: #55 RadicalModerate

Does that mean that Jim Hoft succeeds in breaking the laws of physics?

(or is a black hole of derp an entirely different measurement altoghether?)

I think a Derp is a different unit. I hereby name it the Hoft. I’ll leave it for others to develop the scale.

59 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:24:20pm

his argument is that God decreed that “man” should be armed to the teeth with high-powered semi-automatic weapons, because Bible. Hey, are you gonna argue with God? Get thee to a gun store, sinner!

There is a part of me that thinks right wing “Protestant Christians” are upset Jesus did not think up the idea of “Jihad” first and that the closest thing to a “holy war and holy warrior” in Christianity (“Crusaders”) is “Catholic” in origin.

60 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:24:46pm

re: #57 erik_t

But they would have had the bejeweled sun-laser-trinket had Jones not intervened, wouldn’t they?

I confess it’s been a number of years since I’ve seen the movie.

In which case, the Nazis retrieve the Ark, take it to Hitler, open it and…

Well, there goes the 3rd Reich.

61 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:25:19pm

Ehehehehe. AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

62 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:25:49pm

Heh. Buck is still whining about being a victim over in his page.

63 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:26:21pm

Okay, I have a solution.

You know what would put the brakes on this crap in a New York minute? Have every able-bodied male & female American Muslim of legal age show up armed to the teeth at a massive open carry rally and loudly voice their 100% support for the NRA & the rest of the pro-gun fanatics.

For added effect, they could also cite passages from the Qur’an about self-defense that are similar to those from the Bible while waving their Qur’ans in the air and shouting “Takbir: Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar!”

Then everybody could just sit back with their popcorn and wait for the hysterical political fallout & finger pointing guaranteed follow.

These idiots really haven’t thought this stuff through, have they? //

64 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:26:25pm

re: #60 Kragar

In which case, the Nazis retrieve the Ark, take it to Hitler, open it and…

Well, there goes the 3rd Reich.

God always misses his target when he does stuff like that. His strikes cause a lot of collateral damage.

65 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:27:51pm

re: #61 erik_t

I guess Frum is a “radical leftist” now. George Will is a “moderate”. E.J.Dionne is “radical socialist leftist”.

66 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:28:14pm

re: #62 Bubblehead II

Heh. Buck is still whining about being a victim over in his page.

Heh. He’s pissed off at me for directly quoting him.

67 calochortus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:28:57pm

re: #63 CuriousLurker

Okay, I have a solution.

You know what would put the brakes on this crap in a New York minute? Have every able-bodied male & female Muslim of legal age show up armed to the teeth at a massive open carry rally and loudly voice their 100% support for the NRA & the rest of the pro-gun fanatics.

For added effect, they could also cite passages from the Qur’an about self-defense that are similar to those from the Bible while waving their Qur’ans in the air and shouting “Takbir: Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar!”

Then everybody could just sit back with their popcorn and wait for the hysterical political fallout & finger pointing guaranteed follow.

These idiots really haven’t thought this stuff through, have they? //

Kind of like all the enthusiasm for the Black Panthers engaging in legally carrying weapons back in the 60s?

68 John Vreeland  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:29:19pm

Jesus taught that a sword or two for self-defense is a good thing. I suppose the modern version of his sword would be a shotgun under the bed. “Armed to the teeth” is a bit loony.

69 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:29:43pm

Saw that. Got Spy up on another monitor. See he still pissed off at CL as well.

70 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:29:45pm

re: #64 Destro

God always misses his target when he does stuff like that. His strikes cause a lot of collateral damage.

A priest went golfing with a nun as his caddie. He is on the 3rd hole and he’s 4 inches from the hole, but he missed.

He mumbles, ‘Fucking shit I missed’.

The nun gasps and says, ‘Watch your language’.

The priest goes to the 4th hole, he’s 3 inches, but he missed.

He said, ‘Fucking shit I missed’.

The nun gasps and says, ’ The Lord will get you if you aren’t careful’.

The priest goes to the 5th hole and is 2 inches from the hole, but missed.

He screams, ’ FUCKING SHIT I MISSED’.

Then a big bolt of lightning comes down and incinerates the nun.

Then a big voice comes from Heaven that says, ‘Fucking shit I missed’.

71 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:30:11pm

re: #67 calochortus

Kind of like all the enthusiasm for the Black Panthers engaging in legally carrying weapons back in the 60s?

Exactly.

72 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:30:36pm

Speaking of God and decrees…. SCHISM!

Okla. church votes to leave Presbyterians

The First Presbyterian Church of Edmunds, Okla., voted to sever ties with Presbyterian Church (USA) over the ordination of gay ministers, its pastor said.

The church announced Sunday it would leave the denomination and join the Evangelical Covenant Order after an 815-55 vote to sever ties with the Presbyterian Church (USA), The Oklahoman reported Monday.

The Rev. Mateen Elass, the church’s senior pastor, cited theological differences for the split, noting his congregation’s perception the Presbyterian Church has moved away from the authority of Scripture with its 2011 decision to allow the ordination of gay people and a perception ministers who defied a ban on same-sex marriage are not being held accountable.

[…]

73 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:32:11pm

The PC(USA) is supposedly a “liberal” denomination, but it’s pretty clear that the Oklahoma-ness of the congregation easily trumped any larger ideas of doctrinal connection with the larger body. 815-55 is a landslide.

74 BongCrodny  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:33:20pm

re: #30 Skip Intro

So right after God finishes murdering the entire human race and every other land dwelling species, he says this? He’s clueless enough to be a writer for NRO.

Here’s another thing that gets me about the Bible’s God:

All those old dudes, Methuselah, the other old-timers — they all lived to be 600, 700, 800, 900, right?

“For God so loveth the world that he decreaseth the lifespan of man by tenfold.”

On second thought, that means that Rush Limbaugh won’t be around for another 900 years.

Alrighty then. Carry on, God.

75 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:33:56pm

Arizona Republicans Propose Anti-Evolution Education Bill

A group of Arizona Republicans are out with a new bill to undermine the teaching of evolution and subjects such as climate change and cloning in the classroom. The National Center for Science Education called the legislation another “instance of the ‘academic freedom’ strategy for undermining the teaching of evolution and climate change.”

The proposed “teach the controversy” bill is a stealthy attack on evolution as it tries to make science classes give equal weight to nonscientific beliefs and theologies. It’s the equivalent of including claims made by the Flat Earth Society in a geology class, all for the sake of “balance.”

76 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:34:56pm

re: #75 Kragar

Focused like a laser beam on the economy and jobs.

77 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:35:31pm

re: #63 CuriousLurker

Okay, I have a solution.

You know what would put the brakes on this crap in a New York minute? Have every able-bodied male & female American Muslim of legal age show up armed to the teeth at a massive open carry rally and loudly voice their 100% support for the NRA & the rest of the pro-gun fanatics.

For added effect, they could also cite passages from the Qur’an about self-defense that are similar to those from the Bible while waving their Qur’ans in the air and shouting “Takbir: Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar!”

Then everybody could just sit back with their popcorn and wait for the hysterical political fallout & finger pointing guaranteed follow.

These idiots really haven’t thought this stuff through, have they? //

A lovely intellectual exercise to put the point across. Though I expect that certain members of the United States citizenry could not be trusted to act reasonably and peacefully in the face of the set-up, publication, and running of such an legally sanctioned and licensed event. So I expect hysterical head-popping to proceed earlier in the process and that the event would also result in a body count. Which would not be the organizer’s fault, but would be blamed on them none the less.

78 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:35:40pm

re: #70 Kragar

Still, “old friend!” You’ve managed to kill everyone else, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target!

79 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:35:44pm

This kind of thing is embarrassing on so many levels. Right when we have a Democratic president being reasonable after some mass shooting. Equating any of this to Christ is just a whole additional level of offensive to me. The Mamet piece in The Daily Beast was also over the top if not as bad.

80 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:35:46pm

re: #75 Kragar

Arizona Republicans Propose Anti-Evolution Education Bill

Arizona: Home of the 6,000 Year Old Grand Canyon.

81 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:36:53pm

Teach the controversy plans we never hear:

“Some people believe in abstinence only sex education, now lets talk about keeping safe using birth control and condoms to prevent unwanted pregnancies and disease.”

“Some people have said homosexuals are demons in human form, today we’re going to talk about how they are normal productive people who just want to live their lives.”

82 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:38:00pm

re: #80 wrenchwench

Arizona: Home of the 6,000 Year Old Grand Canyon.

Please, its not even 6000 years old. It didn’t happen till the Flood.

83 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:38:07pm

re: #81 Kragar

Teach the controversy plans we never hear:

“Some people believe in abstinence only sex education, now lets talk about keeping safe using birth control and condoms to prevent unwanted pregnancies and disease.”

“Some people have said homosexuals are demons in human form, today we’re going to talk about how they are normal productive people who just want to live their lives.”

Coming to a church pulpit near you soon!
////

84 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:38:19pm

re: #80 wrenchwench

Flood Geology Is Back!
[Link: scienceblogs.com…]

85 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:39:30pm

re: #84 jaunte

Flood Geology Is Back!
[Link: scienceblogs.com…]

Organic material detected on other planets? ITS FROM THE FLOOD!

86 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:39:30pm
“Some people have said homosexuals are demons in human form, today we’re going to talk about how they are normal productive people who just want to live their lives.”

Why are you trying to normalize teh gay and destroy families? //

87 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:39:57pm

re: #72 freetoken

Found this on that dissident Presbyterian congregation

The ban on partnered homosexual clergy was officially lifted last summer after a majority of the denomination’s 173 presbyteries approved the measure.
In response to the changed ordination rules, The Fellowship of Presbyterians was created last year by pastors concerned about the health of the PC(USA).
Now with the launch of its new body, The Fellowship is offering a new home for Presbyterians who want to move past the infighting and get back to reaching people for Christ.

“The problem is not denominational ambiguity or ecclesiastical dividedness or even ineffectiveness,” Ortberg said at the Jan. 18-20 conference, according to Layman.org. “The problem is that people are going to hell.”

lol

Anyway, this can only be good for the Presbyterians. The radicals were eating it out from the inside.

88 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:40:09pm

re: #84 jaunte

Flood Geology Is Back!
[Link: scienceblogs.com…]

From there:

It requires either monumental ignorance or monumental dishonesty to distort the facts to make them fit the flood model.

Or both!

89 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:40:33pm

My head. It hurts from teh stupid.

90 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:40:56pm
“Some people believe in abstinence only sex education, now lets talk about keeping safe using birth control and condoms to prevent unwanted pregnancies and disease.”

Why are you persecuting all JudeoChristians with this radical secular muslimic sharia law?

91 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:42:01pm

re: #90 Bulworth

Why are you persecuting all JudeoChristians with this radical secular muslimic sharia law?

TEESH DA CONTRAVERSEEE!

92 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:42:46pm

Viagra or the application of leeches to balance the bodily humors?

93 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:44:09pm

re: #63 CuriousLurker

Okay, I have a solution.

You know what would put the brakes on this crap in a New York minute? Have every able-bodied male & female American Muslim of legal age show up armed to the teeth at a massive open carry rally and loudly voice their 100% support for the NRA & the rest of the pro-gun fanatics.

For added effect, they could also cite passages from the Qur’an about self-defense that are similar to those from the Bible while waving their Qur’ans in the air and shouting “Takbir: Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar!”

Then everybody could just sit back with their popcorn and wait for the hysterical political fallout & finger pointing guaranteed follow.

These idiots really haven’t thought this stuff through, have they? //

The Black Panthers tried that in the ‘60’s in California. That’s why Ronald Reagan pushed for and then happily signed a big chunk of the massive gun control laws they have there.

94 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:44:52pm

re: #85 Kragar

Organic material detected on other planets? ITS FROM THE FLOOD!

It wasn’t a flood… it was a torrent of cosmic God…

nevermind

95 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:45:12pm

re: #93 William Barnett-Lewis

The Black Panthers tried that in the ‘60’s in California. That’s why Ronald Reagan pushed for and then happily signed a big chunk of the massive gun control laws they have there.

White folks love freedom until somebody else tries to enjoy it.

96 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:45:17pm

Academic-free dumb.

97 calochortus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:45:24pm

re: #81 Kragar

Teach the controversy plans we never hear:

“Some people believe in abstinence only sex education, now lets talk about keeping safe using birth control and condoms to prevent unwanted pregnancies and disease.”

“Some people have said homosexuals are demons in human form, today we’re going to talk about how they are normal productive people who just want to live their lives.”

Umm, when I was in high school apparently there was a requirement that Creation be taught, or at least mentioned along side evolution (in Calif. no less.) The biology teacher started the class with “I’m required to teach the biblical story of creation. You’re all familiar with that? Good. Now, evolution…”

98 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:47:13pm

re: #73 freetoken

The PC(USA) is supposedly a “liberal” denomination, but it’s pretty clear that the Oklahoma-ness of the congregation easily trumped any larger ideas of doctrinal connection with the larger body. 815-55 is a landslide.

I suppose that we should be thankful for small favors, as at least they didn’t join the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA). That’s the sect that the hardcore Dominionists/Christian Reconstructionists (aka RJ Rushdoony and Gary North) belong to.

99 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:48:22pm

re: #97 calochortus

Umm, when I was in high school apparently there was a requirement that Creation be taught, or at least mentioned along side evolution (in Calif. no less.) The biology teacher started the class with “I’m required to teach the biblical story of creation. You’re all familiar with that? Good. Now, evolution…”

If they want to teach religion, then it shouldn’t be part of the science curriculum. Let it be a separate class, but it has to teach about all religions. Not just whatever version you happen to believe in.

FSM forbid the little gargoyles think for themselves and make their own decisions about what to believe.

100 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:48:24pm

Creationists actually hate God because they can’t understand how he works and they keep trying to bring him down to their level.

101 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:48:37pm

re: #97 calochortus

The problem is that in a science class you’re going to get some smartass ID or creationist teacher who will do the opposite: “I’m required to teach evolution. You’re all familiar with that? Good. Now, on to the truth - and the indisputable belief in creationism and intelligent design…”

ID and creationism have no place in a science classroom. It isn’t science.

It’s belief - and it befits a sociology, religion, or comparative beliefs course, not science.

102 palomino  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:49:24pm

re: #26 Kragar

Limbaugh: Obama ‘will send your women to combat’ but won’t let son ‘Trayvon’ play football

Maybe that’s because the stakes are a little higher in war. And at least some of the time, the wars we fight are necessary.

What kind of responsible parent wouldn’t at least think twice about their kid playing football, given all the recent medical data showing traumatic brain injury along the lines of, in some cases worse, than what boxers experience.

And a long boxing career is often referred to as the “equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall 100,000 times” over the course of a decade or two. (Admittedly not the most scientific description, but the results in some boxers as they age are pretty clear.)

103 Mentis Fugit  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:49:57pm

You can teach creationism in my classroom when I can preach evolution from your pulpit.

104 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:49:57pm
105 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:50:18pm
106 calochortus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:51:41pm

re: #99 Ghost of Tom Joad

If they want to teach religion, then it shouldn’t be part of the science curriculum. Let it be a separate class, but it has to teach about all religions. Not just whatever version you happen to believe in.

FSM forbid the little gargoyles think for themselves and make their own decisions about what to believe.

Of course it shouldn’t be taught as science, this was back in about 1969 and I don’t think that requirement lasted long. I merely was pointing out that there were examples of “some people think this, now let’s talk about real life”.

107 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:52:01pm

re: #105 lawhawk

World Net Daily is perhaps best known for its stories advancing “birther” conspiracy theories about President Obama. But it also counts many high-profile conservatives, including former GOP presidential candidates Rick Santorum and Herman Cain, as well as actor Chuck Norris, among its columnists.

Heh

108 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:52:18pm

re: #102 palomino

Maybe that’s because the stakes are a little higher in war. And at least some of the time, the wars we fight are necessary.

What kind of responsible parent wouldn’t at least think twice about their kid playing football, given all the recent medical data showing traumatic brain injury along the lines of, in some cases worse, than what boxers experience.

And a long boxing career is often referred to as the “equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall 100,000 times” over the course of a decade or two. (Admittedly not the most scientific description, but the results in some boxers as they age are pretty clear.

Its worse considering that the decades of research into safety equipment to prevent direct injuries like broken bones and such have allowed athletes to actually hit each other with a lot more force than their predecessors, meaning the kind of long term trauma we see now is much worse than in previous generations.

109 calochortus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:52:41pm

re: #101 lawhawk

I agree absolutely- see my post #106.

110 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:54:02pm

re: #102 palomino

Of course to many wingnuts, war is a sport, so they see very little difference.

111 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:54:22pm

Women in combat is like the female orgasm.

Women have been doing it for years, its just self absorbed assholes never noticed.

112 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:54:42pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Heh

Alex Jones-quality conspiracy response from WND in 3…2…1…

113 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:56:04pm

re: #112 RadicalModerate

Alex Jones-quality conspiracy response from WND in 3…2…1…

Pamella Geller drunkenly typing now

114 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:56:10pm

re: #101 lawhawk

The problem is that in a science class you’re going to get some smartass ID or creationist teacher who will do the opposite: “I’m required to teach evolution. You’re all familiar with that? Good. Now, on to the truth - and the indisputable belief in creationism and intelligent design…”

ID and creationism have no place in a science classroom. It isn’t science.

It’s belief - and it befits a sociology, religion, or comparative beliefs course, not science.

And the comparative religion classes are not that popular in those circles due to it not being 100% Bible, and also that the Greeks and Vikings have more interesting stories.

Thor don’t need no AR-15!
;)

115 palomino  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:56:10pm

re: #104 wrenchwench

There’s a major disconnect between the articles and comments at Breitbart, FoxNation, Yahoo, AOL, etc. The articles seem to accept some type of immigration reform as inevitable, albeit almost exclusively based on getting Latino votes.

The reader comments, on the other hand, tend to be full-on nativist TP hyperbole about the dusky skinned neighbors to the South ruining American culture…with their different language, their abuse of public assistance, and their disrespect for American sovereignty. Which is 99% a load of crap.

116 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:57:10pm

Was the National Review always this wacky? I seem to have vague memories that it used to be right wing, but not batshit. Sure, Derbyshire and all that, but am I suffering from wishful nostalgia or have they gotten a lot worse in the last few years?

117 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:57:16pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Pamella Geller drunkenly typing now

“MORE GIN!!! THE MUSE IS UPON ME!!!”

118 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:59:19pm

re: #115 palomino

There’s a major disconnect between the articles and comments at Breitbart, FoxNation, Yahoo, AOL, etc. The articles seem to accept some type of immigration reform as inevitable, albeit almost exclusively based on getting Latino votes.

The reader comments, on the other hand, tend to be full-on nativist TP hyperbole about the dusky skinned neighbors to the South ruining American culture…with their different language, their abuse of public assistance, and their disrespect for American sovereignty. Which is 99% a load of crap.

Looks like a lose-lose situation for the Republicans. And I can’t find my tiny violin….

119 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:59:25pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

my impression is they’ve always been nuts, but then again most of the things that make up the right are nuts to me when it comes to the social issues and general acceptance of reality.

120 palomino  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:00:13pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Was the National Review always this wacky? I seem to have vague memories that it used to be right wing, but not batshit. Sure, Derbyshire and all that, but am I suffering from wishful nostalgia or have they gotten a lot worse in the last few years?

Yeah, they’ve still got a few contributors looking for pragmatic solutions (Frum?), but for the most part they’ve contracted a case of ODS that won’t disappear anytime soon.

121 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:01:08pm

re: #115 palomino

There’s a major disconnect between the articles and comments at Breitbart, FoxNation, Yahoo, AOL, etc. The articles seem to accept some type of immigration reform as inevitable, albeit almost exclusively based on getting Latino votes.

The reader comments, on the other hand, tend to be full-on nativist TP hyperbole about the dusky skinned neighbors to the South ruining American culture…with their different language, their abuse of public assistance, and their disrespect for American sovereignty. Which is 99% a load of crap.

122 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:01:28pm

re: #118 wrenchwench

Looks like a lose-lose situation for the Republicans. And I can’t find my tiny violin….

No kidding. They reaped what they sowed on this issue and other issues involving racial minorities. The kissing up to Arpaio? Romney saying self-deport, and the rise of know nothingism as a whole in the Republican Party.

123 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:01:34pm

I have to step away from TGDN. The derp runneth over.

124 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:01:39pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

My impression is that in the age of the internet the NR has become more and more Faux-i-fied. In the old days of print media NR could hide behind its authors’ command of the English language. Today - 140 characters is all it takes.

125 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:02:26pm

re: #117 Kragar

She seems to be more a cosmo girl than a gin gal.

Then again, Mad Dog 20/20 is probably her real swill of choice.

126 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:02:53pm

re: #121 Kragar

Really, if Rubio does anything that appears moderate on immigration, he’s going to lose a lot of his street creds. We saw Christie lose it for the crime of praising Obama’s response on Sandy. Just wait till Rubio has a part in getting Obama’s immigration plan put into law or even attempted. I mean we already have Rubio birthers. You just know they will increase if Rubio takes a visual stance on the issue.

127 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:03:31pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Was the National Review always this wacky? I seem to have vague memories that it used to be right wing, but not batshit. Sure, Derbyshire and all that, but am I suffering from wishful nostalgia or have they gotten a lot worse in the last few years?

William F Buckley’s retirement signified a pretty distinct shift, and was further accelerated into crazy-territory when they forced his son Christopher off the publication for having the gall to endorse Barack Obama in 2008 - which was the tipping point to their embracing of complete lunacy.

128 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:03:48pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

They’ve gone to a whole new level of crazy. Pretense of objectivity is gone and so too is their grasp of facts.

129 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:04:24pm

The National Review started out as the magazine of genteel racism. Whatever intellectual cover they ever had is dropping off by degrees.

130 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:05:14pm

re: #129 dragonath

Standing athwart history, yelling “Stop!”

131 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:06:40pm

I’ll be honest here. Even though I think one can differentiate William F. Buckley from say John Derbyshire, I find it hard to respect a man who one time supported racial segregation and was I think until death a believer that Joseph McCarthy was right. So, I’ve never been a fan of the National Review because of that. I appreciate that Mr. Buckley wasn’t anti intellectual but still I would say ultimately people like him were more the problem than the solution especially in the 1950’s and 1960’s.

132 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:07:12pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Pamella Geller drunkenly typing now

Does drunkenly bashing one’s face against a keyboard count as “typing”?

133 Tigger2  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:07:21pm

re: #121 Kragar

That’s what I said on another site, Some Republican Politicians might want to look grownup on the immigration front but the teabaggers in the party are going to fight them and keep grinding the GOP into the ground.

134 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:07:35pm

re: #130 Bulworth

Standing athwart history, yelling “Stop!”

Oh god, I want to reach through history and punch Buckley in the neck for making such a wanky mission statement.

135 Sionainn  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:07:39pm

re: #63 CuriousLurker

Okay, I have a solution.

You know what would put the brakes on this crap in a New York minute? Have every able-bodied male & female American Muslim of legal age show up armed to the teeth at a massive open carry rally and loudly voice their 100% support for the NRA & the rest of the pro-gun fanatics.

For added effect, they could also cite passages from the Qur’an about self-defense that are similar to those from the Bible while waving their Qur’ans in the air and shouting “Takbir: Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar!”

Then everybody could just sit back with their popcorn and wait for the hysterical political fallout & finger pointing guaranteed follow.

These idiots really haven’t thought this stuff through, have they? //

I’d pay good money to see that!

136 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:08:44pm

re: #133 Tigger2

That’s what I said on another site the, Some Republican Politicians might want to look grownup on the immigration front but the teabaggers in the party are going to fight them and keep grinding the GOP into the ground.

Those Republicans who do take a grown up stance I think will get primary opposition. This is the thin ice the Republicans have forced themselves to walk on by cozying up to the Tea Party. It’s their own fault because they courted these idiots.

137 Sionainn  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:08:45pm

re: #66 RadicalModerate

Heh. He’s pissed off at me for directly quoting him.

He claims I’m rude. *shrug* He asked for it.

138 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:10:48pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

I’ll be honest here. Even though I think one can differentiate William F. Buckley from say John Derbyshire, I find it hard to respect a man who one time supported racial segregation and was I think until death a believer that Joseph McCarthy was right. So, I’ve never been a fan of the National Review because of that. I appreciate that Mr. Buckley wasn’t anti intellectual but still I would say ultimately people like him were more the problem than the solution especially in the 1950’s and 1960’s.

I would agree somewhat, but Buckley did have a fairly significant moderation in his viewpoint in regards to racial matters, as evidenced by his rather public firing of Pat Buchanan. He saw racism as a losing strategy, and pushed back against it in his later years.

139 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:11:04pm

re: #137 Sionainn

He claims I’m rude.

You may not be aware, but his entire modus operandi is available in picture form:

Image: DARVO.0000000001.png

140 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:11:28pm

I’m not normally one to pimp my Pages (it’s not like I post many to begin with, but hey), but I just had to pimp this one:

USA Today: Boy Scouts may end gay ban next week

The (corporate) money talks and, apparently, National is now listening; it’s about damn time.

141 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:12:21pm

re: #140 TedStriker

I’m not normally one to pimp my Pages (it’s not like I post many to begin with, but hey), but I just had to pimp this one:

USA Today: Boy Scouts may end gay ban next week

The (corporate) money talks and, apparently, National is now listening; it’s about damn time.

142 palomino  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:13:32pm

re: #108 Kragar

Its worse considering that the decades of research into safety equipment to prevent direct injuries like broken bones and such have allowed athletes to actually hit each other with a lot more force than their predecessors, meaning the kind of long term trauma we see now is much worse than in previous generations.

More players used to actually die very quickly from football injuries. But that was in the first decade of the 20th century when the numbskulls played without helmets, often cracking their skulls wide open and dying on the field. Pres. Roosevelt threatened to ban the sport (which was really only popular at the collegiate level back then) when 18 players died from head and spine injuries in 1906. Safety reforms and rule changes saved the sport at the time, but that only made it marginally safer in the sense that horrifying deaths on the field became less common.

Over 100 years later, deaths on the field are rare, but that’s hardly a great accomplishment considering the current number of traumatic brain injuries, shortened life spans, players carrying insane amount of weight that makes even walking difficult later in life, steroid use, and early onset dementia and other psych problems.

143 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:13:40pm

re: #141 Vicious Babushka

Get bent, Bryan.

144 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:13:45pm

Meanwhile in Bangladesh….

Scores hurt as Islamists take to Bangladesh streets over tribunal

At least 50 people including policemen were injured in Bangladesh on Monday as Islamist activists protested against the prosecution of their leaders on charges stemming from a war of independence 40 years ago, police and witnesses said.

To the Islamists doing violence: Play “Hide and go fuck yourselves, and Die.” You support these monsters who committed the worst breach of Human Rights and International Law since WWII.

Should I make this a page, to explain the offensiveness of these protests? Bangladesh, considering what they suffered at the hands of these people 40 years ago, would be completely in their right to respond way more aggressively.

145 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:15:32pm

re: #138 RadicalModerate

I would agree somewhat, but Buckley did have a fairly significant moderation in his viewpoint in regards to racial matters, as evidenced by his rather public firing of Pat Buchanan. He saw racism as a losing strategy, and pushed back against it in his later years.

True enough and I think he was one of the early people on the right who saw the Birchers were bad news. I don’t mean to paint him as a bigot but he’s someone while I don’t hate him, I really don’t respect him much either. It’s hard honestly to describe it. Truthfully, I find it hard to respect a lot of those on the old right because a lot of them were unabashed supported of the Apartheid regime in South Africa. You can’t paint yourself as a supporter of freedom and have that on your record. I do try to view people in the context of their times and not ours but some things are harder to forgive than others. Like disagreement over taxes and spending to me can be more easily rectified. Probably why I can debate fairly civilly with libertarians than social conservatives.

146 Interesting Times  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:15:38pm

re: #142 palomino

More players used to actually die very quickly from football injuries. But that was in the first decade of the 20th century when the numbskulls played without helmets, often cracking their skulls wide open and dying on the field.

Does rugby has similar injury rates, I wonder? They wear no helmets (or even other protective gear) at all.

147 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:20:54pm

re: #144 ProBosniaLiberal

To me, it would be like Protests in favor of Hitler’s return. Those despicable creatures make me sick.

148 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:21:40pm

The problem with the mainstream American right is they moved far to the right on social issues. I mean for fuck sake, George W. Bush’s grandfather was one the board of directors of Planned Parentohood. Can you imagine a Republican senator now on the board of directors of PP? Can you imagine Republican senators now taking gay rights as seriously as many past Republicans took civil rights for African Americans? And it’s worth nothing that every post WWII GOP president until Reagan supported the ERA for women.

149 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:22:39pm

I think it’s worth noting the conservative generation that Buckley and Co. stifled. Rockefeller, Heinz, Jeffords… it’s hard to believe that the author of the Endangered Species Act was a Republican.

Democrats don’t wax poetic over their 1950’s politicians. The National Review was against the Birchers, but shared a common viewpoint (Reds! Coloreds!)- and that’s why I think they could never extirpate it from the party in the long run.

150 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:22:53pm

re: #146 Interesting Times

Does rugby has similar injury rates, I wonder? They wear no helmets (or even other protective gear) at all.

The style of the game is very different. Rugby players tend to concentrate in the scrum, and high-speed collisions are rare.

Blindsided quarterbacks and slot receivers annihilated over the middle are the real concussion causes, not the linemen pushing against each other.

151 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:24:48pm

re: #149 dragonath

I think it’s worth noting the conservative generation that Buckley and Co. stifled. Rockefeller, Heinz, Jeffords… it’s hard to believe that the author of the Endangered Species Act was a Republican.

Democrats don’t wax poetic over their 1950’s politicians. The National Review was against the Birchers, but shared a common viewpoint (Reds! Coloreds!)- and that’s why I think they could never extirpate it from the party in the long run.

And frankly the cynic in me thinks Buckley had a problem with the Birchers not really because of their ideology but because he didn’t want crazy conspiracy nonsense being linked with conservatism. I don’t really blame him but I think from what I know about the NR’s early days, his problem was more with that than the Birchers’ ideology. It’s kind of a little like when Glenn Beck goes after Alex Jones for spreading conspiracy theories though I won’t insult Buckley and say he’s like Beck.

152 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:25:46pm

re: #150 erik_t

The style of the game is very different. Rugby players tend to concentrate in the scrum, and high-speed collisions are rare.

Blindsided quarterbacks and slot receivers annihilated over the middle are the real concussion causes, not the linemen pushing against each other.

See also: leaving the feet and leading with the head. You see concussions in hockey, but a lot less than in football. And you’re landing on ice in hockey.

153 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:27:23pm

re: #141 Vicious Babushka

That man is hiding something very, very disgusting and depraved (or at least he perceives it to be so). I hope we find out what it is while he’s still alive so that he may be properly shamed.

154 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:28:10pm

re: #140 TedStriker

I’m not normally one to pimp my Pages (it’s not like I post many to begin with, but hey), but I just had to pimp this one:

USA Today: Boy Scouts may end gay ban next week

The (corporate) money talks and, apparently, National is now listening; it’s about damn time.

I was curious about how the current BSA membership is distributed in the US; e.g. is it concentrated in any particular region of the country. Quick Google search did not not come up with anything.

The Wikipedia article on the BSA did supply some interesting facts. It looks like Cub Scout and Boy Scout membership is declining - that would probably be a driving factor here.

The same article also mentioned that the local councils (~300 of them) handle a lot of the day-to-day running in the various regions. And your page indicates that it looks like the national board is going to kick this down to that level to allow action/inaction on this issue. Where that leads is probably that it will be a simmering on-going internal discussion there. There is also a pretty close relationship between Scouting and churches it seems (and PTA/education groups to a lesser extent), so I wonder if this is also part a symptom of the on-going issues some church groups are also having with getting and retaining younger members.

155 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:28:18pm

re: #152 erik_t

See also: leaving the feet and leading with the head. You see concussions in hockey, but a lot less than in football. And you’re landing on ice in hockey.

I was thinking about hockey recently. Don’t know too much about the game but I’m surprised how long careers seem to be in that. Not sure which sport has the highest average career. I would think that it would be baseball. A lot probably depends on position too. The shelf life of a NFL running back for example is famously short.

156 palomino  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:29:44pm

re: #146 Interesting Times

Does rugby has similar injury rates, I wonder? They wear no helmets (or even other protective gear) at all.

True, no helmets. I’ve wondered about the same thing regarding head injuries in rugby. I think the rules may be different enough that players launching themselves into each other doesn’t happen. But I would probably think long and hard, like Obama, about letting my son play either sport.

157 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:30:23pm

re: #150 erik_t

The style of the game is very different. Rugby players tend to concentrate in the scrum, and high-speed collisions are rare.

Blindsided quarterbacks and slot receivers annihilated over the middle are the real concussion causes, not the linemen pushing against each other.

In addition, tacklers take angles in Rugby and *always* keep their heads up during the tackle. Spearing is suicide. But like any contact sport, there are a fair number of broken bones and surgically repaired knees and shoulders.

158 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:33:12pm

Scott Lively is apparently worried about wedding songs at gay weddings. He should be worried about me on karaoke night.

159 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:37:15pm

re: #117 Kragar

“MORE GIN!!! THE MUSE IS UPON ME!!!”

That’s a keeper.

160 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:38:28pm

re: #155 HappyWarrior

I was thinking about hockey recently. Don’t know too much about the game but I’m surprised how long careers seem to be in that. Not sure which sport has the highest average career. I would think that it would be baseball. A lot probably depends on position too. The shelf life of a NFL running back for example is famously short.

In terms of team sports, baseball probably since you can still be decent and not need to keep up as much physically. Hitting and fielding well can add some longevity to your career. Players who rely mainly on physical talent are the ones who don’t have long careers because once the body starts breaking down, you have nothing left. Players who rely on savvy and smarts can last forever.

Most hockey careers that are successful later in life are usually the skilled, smart players. There are some exceptions - excessive training/fitness and taking care of your health are huge, but also a lot of luck in not picking up nagging injuries along the way.

161 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:41:05pm

re: #160 Ghost of Tom Joad

In terms of team sports, baseball probably since you can still be decent and not need to keep up as much physically. Hitting and fielding well can add some longevity to your career. Players who rely mainly on physical talent are the ones who don’t have long careers because once the body starts breaking down, you have nothing left. Players who rely on savvy and smarts can last forever.

Most hockey careers that are successful later in life are usually the skilled, smart players. There are some exceptions - excessive training/fitness and taking care of your health are huge, but also a lot of luck in not picking up nagging injuries along the way.

Good points all around. I have to say regarding baseball, I think catcher’s probably the toughest position. Gosh, only position I never played in LL but I played it in softball this past summer and that was tough enough. Hell on your knees.

162 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:43:48pm

Ravens Safety Bernard Pollard Predicts The Death Of The NFL

A day after the debate over the safety of football made it all the way to the White House, Baltimore Ravens safety Bernard Pollard delivered a dire prediction about the future of the NFL to CBSSports.com:

“Thirty years from now,” he said, “I don’t think it will be in existence. I could be wrong. It’s just my opinion, but I think with the direction things are going — where they [NFL rules makers] want to lighten up, and they’re throwing flags and everything else — there’s going to come a point where fans are going to get fed up with it.

“Guys are getting fined, and they’re talking about, ‘Let’s take away the strike zone’ and ‘Take the pads off’ or ‘Take the helmets off.’ It’s going to be a thing where fans aren’t going to want to watch it anymore.”

163 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:44:38pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

Good points all around. I have to say regarding baseball, I think catcher’s probably the toughest position. Gosh, only position I never played in LL but I played it in softball this past summer and that was tough enough. Hell on your knees.

Tears up your knees is right. I’d be all for allowing them to sit on something while catching to avoid long-term damage.

164 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:45:00pm

re: #155 HappyWarrior

I was thinking about hockey recently. Don’t know too much about the game but I’m surprised how long careers seem to be in that. Not sure which sport has the highest average career. I would think that it would be baseball. A lot probably depends on position too. The shelf life of a NFL running back for example is famously short.

I think hockey is a lot like the other contact sports. 8-10 years; with a lot of journeymen players coming up for a few years and then ending up back in the minors or out of the game. “Name” players hang around longer of course and might be able to transition from star to support roles and last longer at the pro level.

Concussions are an issue and a number of good players have been plagued with concussion or injury issues that shortened or severely affected careers (for instance Eric Lindros).

The injury issues are getting paid greater attention, though some think that recent rule changes might cause more collisions and more injuries. It can also be noted that hockey has been steadily increasing protective equipment requirements (especially at the minor and amateur levels).

When I first started watching hockey helmets were still optional; now they are mandatory. Eye shields are much more common as well. And there are some rules in place that punish dangerous situations - pushing players into the boards from behind (boarding penalty); an extended start to initiate a check, or leaving your feet to make a check (charging penalty); hitting and tripping players with the stick (slashing or tripping*), and so on.

Another way to see the changes is watch some current ice hockey and then watch the game segments of “Slapshot”. The latter is a movie and exaggerated, but it also shows a bunch of guys with less equipment and the scars and missing teeth associated with it.

* - Tripping a player moving at a good clip essentially converts him into a board-bound projectile with little time to adjust for the forthcoming collision.

165 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:45:44pm

I would love to see the demise of the NFL in my lifetime.

166 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:47:04pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

Good points all around. I have to say regarding baseball, I think catcher’s probably the toughest position. Gosh, only position I never played in LL but I played it in softball this past summer and that was tough enough. Hell on your knees.

Which is why this guy is a first round Cooperstown inductee:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Twenty years in the game is forever for a catcher, especially one who didn’t move to first base late in his career.

167 Ghost of Tom Joad  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:48:02pm

re: #165 Kragar

I would love to see the demise of the NFL in my lifetime.

Might as well ask to see the demise of the Military-Industrial Complex while you’re at it.

168 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:49:50pm

re: #166 austin_blue

Which is why this guy is a first round Cooperstown inductee:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Twenty years in the game is forever for a catcher, especially one who didn’t move to first base late in his career.

Easily. 46% CS for a catcher in a 21 year career. And of course Pudge could hit a bit too. In my battle of 1990’s catchers, I take him over Piazza for the defense alone. He was so fun to watch when guys tried to steal against him because he more often than not was making them pay. My favorite catcher to work with when I was a kid was quick and great at making blocks.

169 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:52:22pm

Sen. Mike Lee backs out of immigration compromise

Washington • Sen. Mike Lee has left a bipartisan working group on immigration, unable to support a plan that calls for increased border security and better tracking of temporary visas in exchange for an eventual pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

170 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:53:41pm

re: #169 Bubblehead II

Sen. Mike Lee backs out of immigration compromise

Washington • Sen. Mike Lee has left a bipartisan working group on immigration, unable to support a plan that calls for increased border security and better tracking of temporary visas in exchange for an eventual pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

Unfortunately I think there will be more like Lee than not on this issue. Some like Lee because they genuinely don’t want to compromise or others who will cower because of primaries.

171 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:57:17pm

re: #170 HappyWarrior

Well, like a couple of Lizards posted earlier, Immigration reform is pretty much dead. Anything the Senate proposes will be shot down by the House and vice versa. But everybody gets to say that they tried.

172 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:58:16pm

re: #154 Feline Fearless Leader

I was curious about how the current BSA membership is distributed in the US; e.g. is it concentrated in any particular region of the country. Quick Google search did not not come up with anything.

The Wikipedia article on the BSA did supply some interesting facts. It looks like Cub Scout and Boy Scout membership is declining - that would probably be a driving factor here.

The same article also mentioned that the local councils (~300 of them) handle a lot of the day-to-day running in the various regions. And your page indicates that it looks like the national board is going to kick this down to that level to allow action/inaction on this issue. Where that leads is probably that it will be a simmering on-going internal discussion there. There is also a pretty close relationship between Scouting and churches it seems (and PTA/education groups to a lesser extent), so I wonder if this is also part a symptom of the on-going issues some church groups are also having with getting and retaining younger members.

I guarantee that this is not just about drawing in and retaining members, it’s about the money as well; with companies like Intel dropping their corporate contributions to Scouting precisely over this latest affirmation of National’s anti-gay policy several months ago and National board members staging a mutiny over it, the professional Scouters and the BoD at National are trying to right the ship, as it were.

Cash is king.

173 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:58:49pm

re: #169 Bubblehead II

Sen. Mike Lee backs out of immigration compromise

Washington • Sen. Mike Lee has left a bipartisan working group on immigration, unable to support a plan that calls for increased border security and better tracking of temporary visas in exchange for an eventual pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants.

I’m not surprised. He only flies on airplanes with two right wings.

174 allegro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:58:58pm

re: #165 Kragar

I would love to see the demise of the NFL in my lifetime.

I’ve been given a rather unique perspective, having been married to a former pro football player who played center for the Vikings in the early 60s. On the positive side, his talent for the game gave him a full ride at Georgia Tech and a successful career as a ChemE, which would have been otherwise unavailable to him. On the negative, it gave him a lifetime of crippling pain, knee, back, neck, and shoulder surgeries, and dependence on pain meds that (I’m quite certain) ended his life at age 61.

And the game has changed a LOT since he played. For one thing, the guys back then never expected to make a career of the game - they were degreed and played until they couldn’t (like my husband who got his knee blown) or didn’t want to any longer. They weren’t eating steroids to be muscularized monsters so they didn’t get hit as hard. They didn’t make the money that today’s players do, so they weren’t willing to take as many risks. It was still a game.

Without question, the sport is killing its players. Damn shame cuz it’s a great game.

175 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:09:19pm

Image: tumblr_kydyre2pRy1qb4pafo1_400.jpg

176 Kid Skeeter  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:12:36pm

Boy, these comments over at National Review are freaking awesome!

1.

WOW. You nutjobs are corrupting Christianity to suit your demented worldview. Jesus is love, plain and simple. Your sophistry makes a mockery of His message. Shame.

2.

And righties live in a fantasy world in which they are macho men who never make mistakes. In the real world (of data), you have a greater chance of killing yourself or someone in your own family than you do of defending yourself from a criminal.

3.

What, don’t you believe in American Exceptionalism? We have the highest murder rate in the world,. If we don’t, we need to keep trying until we honor the intentions of the Founders.

Then this…
4.

The original Christians were told to carry swords for self defense. Later, the Islamists were urged to carry swords too for a completely different purpose. Which one is the Left more aligned with these days?

Response…

5.

Neither. Both religions are ridiculous and violent.

177 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:14:42pm

re: #176 Kid A

Boy, these comments over at National Review are freaking awesome!

1.

2.

3.

Then this…
4.

Response…

5.

I like number 2 because their macho man crap is so funny to watch.

178 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:16:57pm

This looks interesting: new documentary about the crazification of the Texas public school curriculum. Very first shot of the trailer is David Barton not David Barton and Mike Huckabee.

The Revisionaries

179 Kid Skeeter  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:18:06pm

re: #178 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

This looks interesting: new documentary about the crazification of the Texas public school curriculum. Very first shot of the trailer is David Barton and Mike Huckabee.

The Revisionaries

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

180 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:19:12pm

Ah, it’s not as new as I thought it was.. but it’s airing on PBS tonight.

181 Ian G.  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:19:47pm

re: #141 Vicious Babushka

Pedophiles are not homosexuals, Bryan. How many more fucking times do we have to go over this?

182 Kid Skeeter  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:20:14pm

re: #178 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

This looks interesting: new documentary about the crazification of the Texas public school curriculum. Very first shot of the trailer is David Barton and Mike Huckabee.

The Revisionaries

This is downright scary, and I live in Texas. This is full metal freakdom; how sad and embarassing.

183 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:21:01pm

re: #181 Ian G.

Pedophiles are not homosexuals, Bryan. How many more fucking times do we have to go over this?

You’d think that once would be enough. I really want to find out about the skeletons in this guy’s closet because his issues with gay people are down right creepy.

184 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:26:10pm

That high pitched keening whine is the people over at Fox again:

Judge Napolitano shocks Fox host: Immigration is ‘a natural right’

Fox Business Network host Stuart Varney was stunned on Monday to hear that former New Jersey Superior Court Judge Andrew Napolitano believed the federal government had no right to restrict immigration.

While discussing the latest plan for immigration reform, Napolitano doubted Republicans would “do the right thing” by expanding the freedoms of immigrants.

“If Stuart Varney & Company were a real company, lets say you were a small manufacturing company, you made widgets in northern New Jersey, you should be able to hire whoever you want,” Napolitano, the senior judicial analyst for Fox News, said. “As long as the person obeys the law and pays taxes what business is it of the federal government where they were born?”

“This is the natural law, a natural right,” he added. “Rights come from your humanity. It doesn’t matter where your mother was when you were born.”

185 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:26:29pm

TGDN in a NUTshell:

Benghazi-ghazi-ghazi-stan!1!
Birthermania!1!
Gunz!1!
Fake Quotes!1!
Hitler!1!

186 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:27:51pm

re: #185 Vicious Babushka

TGDN in a NUTshell:

It will be fun when “Fraud” and “Scam” become highlights as well.

187 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:30:07pm

re: #184 Kragar

That high pitched keening whine is the people over at Fox again:

Judge Napolitano shocks Fox host: Immigration is ‘a natural right’

You mean immigrants shouldn’t be treated like chattel, oh no! Seriously though, as much as I dislike him, I’m glad Napolitano is telling the Fox audience what it needs to hear about immigrants and immigration. I wonder how many of them know that the founder of their beloved FNC is himself an immigrant.

188 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:30:21pm

re: #184 Kragar

Interesting. Napolitano must have gone all in with the business interests that favor effectively open borders.

189 funky chicken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:34:41pm

re: #72 freetoken

Speaking of God and decrees…. SCHISM!

Okla. church votes to leave Presbyterians

I know 2 of the “no” votes. Wow. And it is in Edmond, OK

190 fizzlogic  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:37:17pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Was the National Review always this wacky? I seem to have vague memories that it used to be right wing, but not batshit. Sure, Derbyshire and all that, but am I suffering from wishful nostalgia or have they gotten a lot worse in the last few years?

I think Buckley the elder opened the door for this by accepting Rush Limbaugh into the conservative fold. Having said that, the younger Buckley said “goodbye to all that” after his father died and then seeing the writing on the wall. Look at the place; it’s edited by the son of the women who brought us Lewinsky and Drudge.

191 funky chicken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:37:52pm

re: #184 Kragar

That high pitched keening whine is the people over at Fox again:

Judge Napolitano shocks Fox host: Immigration is ‘a natural right’

Note his reason—employers should be able to hire anyone from anywhere for whatever wage the employer thinks is fair. The lib/cons love open, unrestricted immigration because it drives worker wages down.

192 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:38:25pm

Limbaugh: It’s Up To Me And Fox News To Stop Amnesty

Conservative talk radio personality Rush Limbaugh said on his show Monday that it was up to himself and the Fox News network to stop a bipartisan effort to pass immigration reform which would create a path to citizenship for the 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States.

“It’s up to me and Fox News,” Limbaugh said, “and I don’t think Fox News is that invested in this.”

What a guy.
/

193 allegro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:39:40pm

re: #192 Kragar

Limbaugh: It’s Up To Me And Fox News To Stop Amnesty

What a guy.
/

He’s a hero, I tells ya. The Don Quixote of assholes.

194 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:40:07pm

re: #192 Kragar

Limbaugh: It’s Up To Me And Fox News To Stop Amnesty

What a guy.
/

Yep, and then nothing passes, he’ll accuse the president of not doing enough. It’s a win-win situation when you’re a professional hack like Rush is.

195 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:40:41pm

re: #193 allegro

He’s a hero, I tells ya. The Don Quixote of assholes.

That’s not fair. I know assholes, I can be an asshole, and Rush Limbaugh is no asshole- he’s something worse than that.

196 blueraven  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:41:08pm

re: #188 EPR-radar

Interesting. Napolitano must have gone all in with the business interests that favor effectively open borders.

He is a strict libertarian.

Please judge, we have to have some control of immigration.

197 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:41:15pm

Religious Right Activists Warn of Pedophilia if Boy Scouts Open Doors to Gay Members

After news reports came out today that the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) may drop its national policy banning openly gay members in favor of “passing any decisions on gay membership to the local level,” outrage among Religious Right activists has just begun.

198 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:42:02pm

re: #191 funky chicken

Note his reason—employers should be able to hire anyone from anywhere for whatever wage the employer thinks is fair. The lib/cons love open, unrestricted immigration because it drives worker wages down.

There are fault lines on immigration policy in both parties, and this is the biggie on the right. Business interests effectively want open borders to facilitate wage arbitrage. It is even better for them if undocumented people have second class status, since that further drives down wages.

199 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:42:20pm

re: #195 HappyWarrior

That’s not fair. I know assholes, I can be an asshole, and Rush Limbaugh is no asshole- he’s something worse than that.

A colostomy?

200 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:43:52pm

re: #197 Kragar

Religious Right Activists Warn of Pedophilia if Boy Scouts Open Doors to Gay Members

They do know that there have been pedophila scandals in the BSA almost since it’s founding. So sick of religious right assholes saying gays are pedophiles. And of course when you point out that they’re full of shit, you get accused of being a bigot towards Christians. No, asshole, I resent you saying homosexuality and pedophila are the same thing. Is a man who has sex with women a threat around little girls? Because this is their logic. Of course, these are the people who think the lesson of the Nazis is that because there were a small handful of gay Nazis, it’s okay to discriminate against gay people.

201 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:44:22pm

re: #199 Kragar

A colostomy?

Please proceed to the front of the line to collect your commemorative Rush Limbaugh bleach.

202 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:44:36pm

re: #199 Kragar

A colostomy?

Nope. A colostomy is usually the result of a necessary medical procedure.

Rush has no such redeeming features. “Maggot infested pile of reeking radioactive garbage” seems closer.

203 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:47:14pm

re: #192 Kragar

Limbaugh: It’s Up To Me And Fox News To Stop Amnesty

What a guy.
/

I think that’s a result of this:

In an interview with The New Republic, Obama brought up the role of right wing media in killing bipartisanship,

One of the biggest factors is going to be how the media shapes debates. If a Republican member of Congress is not punished on Fox News or by Rush Limbaugh for working with a Democrat on a bill of common interest, then you’ll see more of them doing it.

I think John Boehner genuinely wanted to get a deal done, but it was hard to do in part because his caucus is more conservative probably than most Republican leaders are, and partly because he is vulnerable to attack for compromising Republican principles and ‘working with Obama.’

204 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:48:03pm

re: #191 funky chicken

Note his reason—employers should be able to hire anyone from anywhere for whatever wage the employer thinks is fair. The lib/cons love open, unrestricted immigration because it drives worker wages down.

Notice also he says nothing about citizenship. The standard libertarian position is that it’s OK to have two classes of legal residents; citizens, and immigrant worker bees.

205 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:49:29pm

re: #204 wrenchwench

Notice also he says nothing about citizenship. The standard libertarian position is that it’s OK to have two classes of legal residents; citizens, and immigrant worker bees.

Yeah, good observation. Napolitano could care less about how these people are actually treated once they’re here. Just as long as a business can do whatever the hell they want with them. That position is almost as maddening as DEPORT THEM ALL or BUILD THE DAMN FENCE.

206 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:56:18pm

re: #198 EPR-radar

There are fault lines on immigration policy in both parties, and this is the biggie on the right. Business interests effectively want open borders to facilitate wage arbitrage. It is even better for them if undocumented people have second class status, since that further drives down wages.

The UK has an interesting take on this issue that protects most jobs for locals:

[Link: ukmigrationupdate.blogspot.com…]

207 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:58:32pm

re: #199 Kragar

A colostomy?

Colostomy bag, and contents.

208 funky chicken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:59:18pm

re: #205 HappyWarrior

Yeah, good observation. Napolitano could care less about how these people are actually treated once they’re here. Just as long as a business can do whatever the hell they want with them. That position is almost as maddening as DEPORT THEM ALL or BUILD THE DAMN FENCE.

More maddening, actually.

209 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:00:33pm

re: #208 funky chicken

More maddening, actually.

True enough. I mean at least some of the anti illegal people are concerned about businesses exploiting immigrants.

210 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:00:58pm

re: #207 austin_blue

Colostomy bag, and contents.

The worst thing about colostomies?

Finding shoes to match the bag.

211 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:08:32pm

re: #210 Kragar

The worst thing about colostomies?

Finding shoes to match the bag.

Welp, that seems to have stopped the thread dead in its tracks.

212 kirkspencer  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:08:58pm

re: #210 Kragar

The worst thing about colostomies?

Finding shoes to match the bag.

Jellies.

213 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:10:57pm
214 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:11:54pm

re: #213 Kragar

Big gay? What a ridiculous person he is.

215 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:12:15pm

Really Bryan? You really want to go there?

216 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:13:20pm

re: #213 Kragar

re: #215 Kragar

Bryan Fischer has more issues than the National Geographic.

217 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:18:52pm

Bryan Fischer’s theme song:

Youtube Video
218 Wayne A. Schneider  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:40:01pm

If Jesus were armed, they wouldn’t have been able to crucify him so easily. So they’ve got that argument going for them. (OK, seriously, WTF is wrong with these idiots? Besides that they’re idiots?)

219 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:54:33pm

From the conclusion of the article:

What does all this mean? Essentially that gun control represents not merely a limitation on a constitutional right but a limitation on a God-given right of man that has existed throughout the history of civil society. All rights — of course — are subject to some limits (the right of free speech is not unlimited, for example), and there is much room for debate on the extent of those limits, but state action against the right of self-defense is by default a violation of the natural rights of man, and the state’s political judgment about the limitations of that right should be viewed with extreme skepticism and must overcome a heavy burden of justification.

In other words, I d

This encapsulates the form of logic, or lack thereof, that gun nuts use. The first absolutist sentence is immediately qualified by the second, then contradicted by equating gun control with denial of self defense. This jerk doesn’t know what he is trying to say.

220 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 9:49:10am
221 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 10:00:36am

re: #220 Doctor_Bill

I can only conclude that most of the posters here are either lazy and/or illiterate.

Thanks for joining us!


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