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The NRA Publishes Its Enemies List

Part 1
Wingnuts • Views: 41,783

AARP
AFL-CIO
Ambulatory Pediatric Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Civil Liberties Union
American Academy of Ambulatory Care Nursing
American Medical Women’s Association
American Medical Student Association
American Medical Association
American Association for the Surgery of Trauma
American Trauma Society
American Federation of Teachers
American Association of School Administrators
American Alliance for Rights and Responsibilities
American Medical Association
American Bar Association
American Counseling Association
American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association for World Health
American Ethical Union
American Nurses Association
American Association of Neurological Surgeons
American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences
American Firearms Association
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Jewish Committee
American Trauma Society
American Psychological Association
American Jewish Congress
American Public Health Association
Americans for Democratic Action
Anti-Defamation League
Black Mental Health Alliance
B’nai B’rith
Central Conference of American Rabbis
Children’s Defense Fund
Church of the Brethren
Coalition for Peace Action
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
College Democrats of America
Committee for the Study of Handgun Misuse & World Peace
Common Cause
Congress of National Black Churches, Inc.
Congress of Neurological Surgeons
Consumer Federation of America
Council of the Great City Schools
Council of Chief State School Officers
Dehere Foundation
Disarm Educational Fund
Environmental Action Foundation
Episcopal Church-Washington Office
Florence and John Shumann Foundation
Friends Committee on National Legislation
General Federation of Women’s Clubs
George Gund Fun
Gray Panthers
H.M. Strong Foundation
Hadassah
Harris Foundation
Hechinger Foundation
Interfaith Neighbors
Int’l Ladies’ Garment Workers’ Union
Int’l Association of Educators for World Peace
Jewish Labor Committee
Joyce Foundation
Lauder Foundation
Lawrence Foundation
League of Women Voters of the United States*
Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Manhattan Project II
Mennonite Central Committee-Washington Office
National Safe Kids Campaign
National Association of Police Organizations
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
National Black Nurses’ Association
National Association of Chain Drug Stores
National Network for Youth
National Assembly of National Voluntary Health & Social Welfare Organizations
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
National Association of School Psychologists
National Association of Counties*
National Association of Pediatric Nurse Associates & Practitioners
National Association of School Safety and Law Enforcement Officers
National Education Association
National Association of Elementary School Principals*
National Association of Public Hospitals
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
National Association of Secondary School Principals
National Association of Social Workers
National Association of Children’s Hospitals and Related Institutions
National Association of School Psychologists
National Council of La Raza
National Center to Rehabilitate Violent Youth
National Commission for Economic Conversion & Disarmament
National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA
National Council of Negro Women
National Association of Community Health Centers
National People’s Action
National Education Association*
National League of Cities
National Council on Family Relations
National Council of Jewish Women
National Organization for Women
National Political Congress of Black Women
National Parks and Conservation Association
National Peace Foundation
National Urban League, Inc.
National Parent, Teachers Association*
National Urban Coalition
National SAFE KIDS Campaign
National Organization on Disability
National Spinal Cord Injury Association
NETWORK: A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby
Ortenberg Foundation
Peace Action
People for the American Way
Physicians for Social Responsibility
Police Foundation
Project on Demilitarization and Democracy
Public Citizen
SaferWorld
Society of Critical Care Medicine
Southern Christian Leadership Conference
The Council of the Great City Schools
The Synergetic Society
20/20 Vision
U.S. Catholic Conference, Dept. of Social Development
Union of American Hebrew Congregations
Unitarian Universalist Association
United States Catholic Conference
United Methodist Church, General Board & Church Society
United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society*
United States Conference of Mayors
War and Peace Foundation
Women Strike for Peace
Women’s National Democratic Club
Women’s Action for New Directions (WAND)
Women’s Int’l League for Peace and Freedom
World Spiritual Assembly, Inc.
YWCA of the U.S.A.

Link…

The list continues in the comment section

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481 comments

1 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:45:54pm

Part 2.

Krista Allen – Actress
Suzy Amis – Actress
Louis Anderson – Comedian
Richard Dean Anderson – Actor
Maya Angelou – Poet
David Arquette – Actor
Ed Asner – Actor
Alec Baldwin – Actor
Bob Barker – TV Personality
Carol Bayer Sager – Composer
Drew Barrymore – Actress
Kevin Bacon – Actor
Lauren Bacall – Actress*
Sarah Ban Breathnach – Writer
William Baldwin – Actor
Candice Bergen – Actress
Richard Belzer – Actor
Tony Bennett – Singer
Boys II Men – Pop Group
Jon Bon Jovi – Singer
Peter Bogdonovich – Director
Peter Bonerz – Actor
Albert Brooks – Actor
Beau Bridges – Actor
Benjamin Bratt – Actor
Bonnie Bruckheimer – Movie Producer
Christie Brinkley – Model
Dr. Joyce Brothers – Psychologist/Author
James Brolin – Actor
James Brooks – TV Producer
Mel Brooks – Actor/Director
Betty Buckley – Actress
Ellen Burstyn – Actress
Steve Buscemi – Actor
David Canary – Actor
Kate Capshaw – Actress
Kim Cattrall- Actress
Josh Charles – Actor
Robert Chartloff – Producer
Stockard Channing – Actress
Jill Clayburgh – Actress
Terri Clark – Singer
George Clooney – Actor
Jackie Cooper – Actor/Director*
Jennifer Connelly – Actress
Judy Collins – Singer
Kevin Costner – Actor
Sean Connery – Actor
Sheryl Crow – Singer
Billy Crystal- Actor
Julie Cypher – Director
Arlene Dahl – Actress
Clive Davis – Writer
Linda Dano – Actress
Matt Damon – Actor
Pam Dawber – Actress
Patrika Darbo – Actress
Stuart Damon – Actor
Ellen Degeneres – Actress
Gavin de Becker – Writer
Rebecca DeMornay – Actress
Danny DeVito – Actor
Michael Douglas – Actor
Phil Donahue – Talk Show Host
Richard Donner – Director
Fran Drescher – Actress
Richard Dreyfus – Actor
David Duchovny – Actor
Sandy Duncan – Actress
Christine Ebersole – Actress
Kenneth “Babyface” Edmonds – Singer
Missy Elliott – Singer
Nora Ephron – Director
Gloria Estefan – Singer
Melissa Etheridge – Singer
Mia Farrow – Actress
Mike Farrell – Actor
Carrie Fisher – Actress
Sally Field – Actress
Doug Flutie – NFL player
Fannie Flagg – Actress
Jane Fonda – Actress
Jodie Foster – Actress
Rick Fox – NBA Player
Andy Garcia – Actor
Art Garfunkel – Singer
Geraldo – TV personality
Richard Gere – Actor
Kathie Lee Gifford – TV personality
Paul Glaser – TV director
Brad Gooch – Writer
Elliott Gould – Actor
Louis Gossett, Jr. – Actor
Michael Gross – Actor
Nancy Lee Grahn – Actress
Bryant Gumbel – TV Personality
Deidra Hall – Actress
Ethan Hawke – Actor
Mariette Hartley – Actress
Mark Harmon – Actor
Anne Heche – Actress
Howard Hessman – Actor
Marilu Henner – Actress
Dustin Hoffman – Actor
Hal Holbrook – Actor*
Helen Hunt – Actress
Grace-Lynne Ingle – Actress
John Ingle – Actor
Francesca James – TV Producer
Norman Jewison – Director
Lainie Kazan – Actress
Richard Karn – Actor
Jeffrey Katzenberg – Producer
Barry Kemp – TV Producer
David E. Kelley – TV Producer
Diane Keaton – Actress
Margaret Kemp – Interior Designer
Chaka Khan – Singer
Coreta Scott King – Activist
Kevin Kline – Actor
Michael E. Knight – Actor

2 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:51:36pm

Part 3

Jonathan Kozol – Writer
William Kovacs – Director
Lenny Kravits – Singer
Lisa Kudrow – Actress
Willy Kurth – Actor
Christine Lahti – Actress
k.d. lang – Singer
Ricki Lake – TV personality
Denis Leary – Actor
John Leguizamo – Actor
Norman Lear – TV Producer
Spike Lee – Director
Hal Linden – Actor
Lisa Linde – Actress
Tara Lipinski – Former Olympian
Keyshawn Johnson – NFL player
Rob Lowe – Actor
Amanda Marshall – Singer
Barry Manilow – Singer
Camryn Manheim – Actress
Howie Mandel – Actor
Kyle MacLachlan – Actor
Madonna – Singer
Marla Maples – Actress
Marsha Mason – Actress*
Mase – Singer
Penny Marshall – Director
Prema Mathai-Davis – YWCA Official
John McDaniel – Musician
John McEnroe – Athlete
Brian McKnight – Musician
Natalie Merchant – Singer
Bette Midler – Singer
Shane Minor – Musician
Mary Tyler Moore – Actress
Michael Moore – Film Maker
Norval Morris – Law Professor
Mike Myers – Actor
N Sync – Music group
Kathy Najimy – Actress
Jack Nicholson – Actor
Leonard Nimoy – Actor
Mike Nichols – Director
Stephen Nichols – Actor
Rosie O`Donnel l- Actress/Talk Show Host
Jennifer O Neill – Actress
Julia Ormond – Actress
Jane Pauley – TV Personality
Sarah Jessica Parker – Actress
Mandy Patinkin – Actor
Richard North Patterson – Writer
Rhea Perlman- Actress
Michelle Pfieffer – Actress
Sydney Pollack – Director
Aidan Quinn – Actor
Colin Quinn – Actor
Dennis Quaid – Actor
Elizabeth Bracco Quinn – Actress
Bonnie Raitt – Singer
Debbie Reynolds – Actress
Mary Lou Retton – Former Olympian
Paul Reiser – Actor
Peter Reckell – Actor
Rob Reiner – Actor/Director
Robert Redford – Actor/Director
Anne Rice – Writer
Cathy Rigby – Actress
Julia Roberts – Actress
Marc Rosen – TV Producer
Tim Robbins – Actor
Tim Roth – Actor
Renee Russo – Actress
Robin Ruzan – Wife of Mike Myers
Meg Ryan – Actress
Susan Sarandon – Actress
Jerry Seinfeld – Actor
Kyra Sedgwick – Actress
Martin Sheen – Actor
Russell Simmons – Record Producer
Neil Simon – Playwright*
Louise Sorel – Actress
Mira Sorvino – Actress
Rena Sofer – Actress
Britney Spears – Singer
Bruce Springsteen – Singer
Kevin Spirtas – Actor
Barbra Streisand – Singer
David Steinberg – Director
Sylvester Stallone – Actor
Harry Dean Stanton – Actor
Meryl Streep – Actress
Patrick Stewart – Actor
Sharon Stone – Actress
Sting – Singer
Trudie Styler – Actress
Jonathan Taylor Thomas – Actor
The Temptations – Pop Group
Vinny Testaverde – NFL player
Marlo Thomas – Actress*
Uma Thurman – Actress
Steve Tisch – Producer
Mike Torrez – Former Baseball player
Shania Twain – Singer
Dick Van Dyke – Actor
Eli Wallach – Actor*
Ruth Warrick – Actress
Harvey Weinstein – Producer
Jann Wenner – Publisher
Sigourney Weaver – Actress
Victor Webster – Actor
James Whitmore – Actor*
Andy Williams – Singer*
Kelli Williams – Actress
Henry Winkler – Actor
Oprah Winfrey – Entertainer
Rita Wilson – Actress
Vanessa Williams – Singer
Herman Wouk – Author
Joanne Woodward – Actress*
Peter Yarrow – Singer
Catherine Zeta-Jones – Actress
Ahmet Zappa -Actor
Diva Zappa -Actress
Dweezil Zappa – Musician
Gail Zappa -
Moon Zappa -Actress
* Membership on the Brady Campaign`s National Committee

3 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:52:55pm

Part 4

Joel J. Alpert M.D. – Pediatrician
Robert Bernstein Ph.D – Pediatrician
Robert E. Brennan – Financier
Bishop Edmond Browning – Espiscopal Leader
James E. Carter – Former President
Marion Wright Edelman – Director, Childrens Defense Fund
Michael Eisner, Former Chairman and CEO The Walt Disney Company
Ahmet Ertegun – Music Producer
Amitai Etzioni – Teacher
Tom Freston – MTV President
Dr. Lorraine E. Hale – Social Worker
Della M. Hughes – Activist
Ed Koch – Former Politician
C. Everett Koop – Former Surgeon General
Rev. Wallace Ryan Kuroiwa – Clergyman
Davis S. Liederman – Ex. Dir. Child Welfare League
Paul Rabbi Menitaff – Clergyman
Abner Mikva – Former Judge
Richard Parsons – Pres. Time Warner
Steven Rockefeller – Financier
Ellen Y. Rosenberg – Activist
Rabbi David Saperstein – Clergyman
Herb Scannel – Pres. N
A & M Records
Record Production, Entertainment

American Century Companies
Mutual Fund & Stock Investment Company on NYSE

American Multi Cinemas Entertainment, Inc.
Movie Theater Company

Argosy Casino
Gambling Casino Company

Ben & Jerry`s Homemade, Inc.
Ice cream and frozen yogurt

BJC Health Systems
Healthcare Company

Blue Cross Blue Shield – Kansas City
Healthcare Company

Brooks Investments-Robert Brooks
Investment Company

Carter Hawley Hale Stores, Inc.
Retail clothing and accessories stores

Crown Central Petroleum Corp.
Refiners and marketers of petroleum products, convenience stores

Development Specialists – Chicago

Earthgrains – St. Louis
National Bread Company

General American – St. Louis
Life Insurance

Hallmark Cards
Greeting Card Company

Health Midwest
National Healthcare Company

ICN Biomedicals
Pharmaceutical products

James B. Nutter Co. – Kansas City
Investment Banker

Kansas City Chiefs
Pro Football Team

4 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:54:17pm

Part 5


Kansas City Royals
Pro Baseball Team

Kenneth Cole
Clothing retailer

Lamar Advertising Company

Levi Strauss & Co.
Clothing

Mallinckrodt, Inc. – St. Louis
Clothing Starch Company

Michael Douglas Foundation

MNC Financial, Inc.
Banking, financial services

Sara Lee Corporation

Silver Dollar City
Amusement Parks

Site Oil Company – St. Louis
Oil Company

Southland Corporation
Convenience stores

Southwestern Bell Telephone- St. Louis
Telecommunications Firm

Sport & Health, Inc.
Health clubs and fitness centers

Sprint Corp PAC
Telecommunicaitons Firm

SSM Health System – St. Louis
Healthcare Company

St. Louis Rams
Pro Football Team

St. Louis University
Private Catholic University

Stoneyfield Farms Yogurt
Yogurt

Sverdrup Corp.
Engineering Firm

Time Warner Inc.
Publishing, film and music recordings

TMP Worldwide/Monster.Com
online employment service

Unity Health – St. Louis
Healthcare Company

Working Assets


Capital Cities/ABC

Bell Atlantic-D.C.

Blue Chip Stamps

The Christian Publishing Society

Columbia Broadcasting Service

Corporation For Public Broadcasting/ PBS Television

Cox Newspapers

Gannett News Service

5 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:54:37pm

It’s probably not a good idea to publish those addresses here. Note that the phone numbers are automatically getting stripped out.

6 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:55:10pm

Part 6

Johnson Publishing Company, Inc.

Knight-Ridder Newspapers


Miami Herald

Los Angeles Times


McCall`s Magazine


Motorcycle Cruiser Magazine


National Broadcasting Company

Newsweek Magazine

Rolling Stone Magazine

The New York Times Corporation

Time Magazine

Times-Mirror Corporation

The Baltimore Sun

The Tribune Company

Washington Post

7 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:56:47pm

re: #5 CuriousLurker

It’s probably not a good idea to publish those addresses here. Note that the phone numbers are automatically getting stripped out.

They’re already published, including the phone numbers, but I’ll be happy to edit them out if Charles wants.

I think it’s important to see just who the NRA considers it’s enemies to be.

8 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 12:59:57pm

re: #7 Skip Intro

They’re already published, including the phone numbers.

I think it’s important to see just who the NRA considers it’s enemies to be.

I know, but there’s a policy against phone numbers & other personal info being published here (or at least there was), regardless of whether or not it was published elsewhere.

It was just friendly advice, feel free to ignore it.

9 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:05:04pm

re: #8 CuriousLurker

I know, but there’s a policy against phone numbers & other personal info being published here (or at least there was), regardless of whether or not it was published elsewhere.

It was just friendly advice, feel free to ignore it.

I took care of it.

10 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:05:56pm

re: #9 Skip Intro

I took care of it.

Great. It beats the heck out of getting your Page deleted. ;)

11 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:06:56pm

What a great list! Includes some of my favorite people, some of whom have sadly passed on. I don’t think it’s polite to put dead people on one’s enemies list. Oh, wait. Making the list itself is not polite.

12 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:14:16pm

re: #11 wrenchwench

Includes some of my favorite people, some of whom have sadly passed on. I don’t think it’s polite to put dead people on one’s enemies list. Oh, wait. Making the list itself is not polite.

Do we really know they’re dead? A government that can forge a usurper’s birth certificate can certainly forge a death certificate.

13 Skip Intro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:15:09pm

re: #10 CuriousLurker

Great. It beats the heck out of getting your Page deleted. ;)

Yes, it does, since it took a lot of editing to get it all to fit in just six pages.

14 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:23:17pm

As a born-again Episcopalian heretic, I’m immensely pleased my local Diocese is apparently in the, um, crosshairs.

And the list of actors and writers, etc, is incredibly useful. Now I know who the courageous people are.

15 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:24:50pm
Patrick Stewart – Actor
Leonard Nimoy – Actor
David Duchovny – Actor
Sigourney Weaver – Actress
Carrie Fisher – Actress

So the NRA wants to take on Captain Picard, Mr. Spock, Fox Mulder, Ellen Ripley, AND Princess Leia?

Wow, when they pick a fight, they really pick a fight.

16 Locker  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:29:15pm

Personally I think the AARP would kick the crap out of the NRA. Don’t need anyone else on the list. One and done.

17 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:30:02pm

Steve Buscemi? Now you’ve done it, NRA.

18 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:32:21pm

Jon Bon Jovi is on there. I’m proud of that! Cause, I am a fan.

Boyz II Men is a favorite of one of my friends.

19 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:35:52pm
Sylvester Stallone – Actor

I wonder what RockRambo’s sin was?

20 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:36:49pm

That’s a lot of people to hate. I noticed my health care insurer is on there. Brittany Spears is another that caught my eye? I don’t even remember her saying anything remotely political except that one tidbit Michael Moore got in F-911. Life’s too short for petty hate, NRA.

21 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:37:11pm

re: #19 Bulworth

I wonder what RockRambo’s sin was?

Yeah, good catch. Stupid paranoid LaPierre.

22 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 1:50:47pm

My friend LWC is going to be so disappointed he did not make the list.

23 JeffFX  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:13:07pm

So is this list every good organization and famous person in the world, or did they miss anyone?

24 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:27:22pm

If gun nuts go after one or more of the listed targets, the NRA may accomplish two things simultaneously:

1) Increase the political will for real gun control

2) Finally start a conversation about controlling agitprop for inducing stochastic terrorism.

25 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 2:33:26pm

Good Christ.

So, if someone on this list gets shot, will the NRA be held responsible for incitement?

Oh, wait. Never mind. Silly question.

26 Sionainn  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:05:51pm

re: #19 Bulworth

I wonder what RockRambo’s sin was?

Bad acting?

27 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:13:23pm

Nice, “enemies”.

Way to create an environment of co-operation.

/

28 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:35:43pm

Oh cheez, I didn’t know the NRA had so many “targets”…

29 majii  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 3:36:37pm

I wonder if the NRA is unaware that many of the groups and individuals on its’ “enemies” list have quite a bit of political clout and a lot of money and are willing to use both against its’ efforts to defeat new gun control legislation? I would love to see a huge concert featuring organizations/people on this list to benefit victims of gun violence and to build a memorial to the victims of Sandy Hook Elementary, VA Tech, Tuscon, Columbine, etc. I can hearing some RW heads exploding and hear cries of “This is another liberal conspiracy to take our guns away from us.!!!! Wahhhhhhhhh!!!”

30 Ogami Itto  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:10:26pm

I think that an NRA “Friends” list would have been much much shorter.

31 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:13:48pm

re: #28 dragonath

Oh cheez, I didn’t know the NRA had so many “targets”…

Those are surveyor’s marks.

32 hambone  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:14:02pm

OOOOHHHHHHH An enemies list, I had one of those in grade 5. If I was on the NRA list I would frame it and hang it in my office. to bad they don’t have the stones to make a “Friends of the NRA List” that would be neat to see how fast the listed companies bailed on that. I mean other than the corporation’s that need the NRA to front for their money and agenda cause who going to listen to Bushmaster Firearms on gun control, but hey if only they had a member on the NRA board. Oh right they do already.

33 steve_davis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:25:47pm

re: #17 HappyWarrior

Steve Buscemi? Now you’ve done it, NRA.

And somewhere Danny Boniduci is thinking, “I can’t even make it onto the NRA’s hate list…..” It’s all right, Danny! If you pay me couple grand, I’ll let you show up at my next birthday party!!

34 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:29:24pm

This really is Orwellian stuff. Imagine some little people sitting in a sweaty room, with guns, and taking phone calls from the faithful that so and so said something against guns, so LIST them!

Then imagine if the Democrats published a list of their enemies, imagined or not. The outrage would be deafening.

35 JeffFX  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:31:28pm

re: #34 Achilles Tang

Then imagine if the Democrats published a list of their enemies, imagined or not. The outrage would be deafening.

Outrage and panic. Imagine if both parties were McCarthyist yahoos like the Republicans!

36 Aligarr  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 4:49:29pm

Look go to Breibart and you’ll find everyone who voted for Obama’s an enemy of the US . Whats that ? about 161 million people ?
The NRA is dumb , just as DUMB as that Newspaper that printed the names and addresses of 30,000 gun permit holders .
So two dumbs make ……dumb , just like 0 + 0 = O

37 jhrhv  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:02:21pm

The NRA proudly taking a page from Stalins play book.

38 rosiee  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:23:44pm

lolwut

39 The Mountain That Blogs  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:39:19pm

National Coalition Against Domestic Violence

Gee, I wonder why they might be against guns. Obviously just not aware of our Rights.

//

40 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:46:32pm

Hey, the entire Zappa family is on there

41 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:47:35pm

they left out walt disney and the easter bunny

42 Awea  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:48:09pm
Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I’m not gonna take this. Wormer, he’s a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer…

This is what I think of when they were making their list.

43 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:49:01pm

But I say unto you, That you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

oops, left jesus offa the list too

44 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:50:52pm

re: #43 engineer cat

But I say unto you, That you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

oops, left jesus offa the list too

The NRA bible is even simpler than the normal wingnut bible. The NRA bible has only one book: The Book of Guns. It is a short book, and reads, in its entirety: “More guns”.

45 Patricia Kayden  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:51:44pm

Sad to say that despite all those enemies, the NRA will still get its way because its friends are more powerful than all the gun control advocates in this country. The Republicans (and weak minded Democrats) in the Senate aren’t going to pass the assault weapons ban proposed by Dianne Feinstein.

Not sure what will be done beyond the 23 Executive Orders already signed by President Obama.

46 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:52:31pm

re: #43 engineer cat

Surprised to see Springsteen and Twisted Sister not on there.

47 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:52:43pm

They left out a few:

Parents of children in kindergarten
Parents of children in first grade
Parents of children in second grade
Parents of children in third grade …
etc.

48 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:53:01pm

How Nixonian. They’re nucking futs.

49 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:53:10pm

Also, how about:
Grandparents of children …

50 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:54:21pm

Here’s what Sean Connery had to say about being on this list

51 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:54:52pm

Heh, maybe they should have added the following to the list:

children.

52 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:55:02pm

re: #48 Gus

How Nixonian. They’re nucking futs.

Hmmm. Maybe.

Ah.

Johnsonian as I recall… More files on individuals than freaking Hoover. Johnson and Nixon. Big on lists.

53 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:56:02pm

re: #51 stabby

Heh, maybe they should have added the following to the list:

children.

Cover all the categories at once: Everyone who is not a gun nut.

54 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:57:12pm

I’m disappointed I didn’t make it. Oh well, maybe next year.

55 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:57:28pm

If there is anything I would like to just scream at the gun nutz,

There Is No Plan To Confiscate Any Guns! Not one.

56 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:57:42pm

More illuminating would be a list of those that the NRA considers its “friends.”

57 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:57:53pm

I didn’t see LGF or me on that list.
It’s invalid.

58 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:58:13pm

re: #53 EPR-radar

Ha ha ha, what would that be, 90% of the American people?

The it would have been hard to get all those phone numbers.

59 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:58:26pm

A local woman shot herself in the emergency room recently. The cops who took her there gave her a pat-down. Said they couldn’t do a more thorough search because they were both male. Nurse gave her a pat down, said woman pulled away to cover herself. Was left in a room by herself with a security person outside the door. Was brought in because her mother told the cops she was suicidal. 9 mm Ruger.

60 Ian G.  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:58:28pm

I’m disappointed that The Nature Conservancy is not on the list. Neither is any member of Pearl Jam.

61 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:59:02pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

I’m disappointed I didn’t make it. Oh well, maybe next year.

Check the super-secret double enemies list.

62 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 5:59:22pm

re: #55 Political Atheist

If there is anything I would like to just scream at the gun nutz,

There Is No Plan To Confiscate Any Guns! Not one.

To stick with the diplomatic part of the famous Eisenhower quote, there may be advocates for gun confiscation: “but their numbers are negligible”.

63 Ian G.  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:00:11pm

I may be Godwinning here, but do you know who else had an enemies list?

64 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:00:44pm

re: #63 Ian G.

I may be Godwinning here, but do you know who else had an enemies list?

Dick Cheney? Would explain the man-sized safe.

65 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:00:51pm

This is a great post, Skippy. Something about seeing all those names rolling on and on and on… really drives home the paranoia.

66 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:01:00pm

re: #46 ProBosniaLiberal

Surprised to see Springsteen and Twisted Sister not on there.

seriously, most of the organizations listed are at the fuzzy pink bunny level of respectability and non-threateningness

twisted sister isn’t respectable and mainstream enough

67 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:01:38pm

re: #65 Charles Johnson

This is a great post, Skippy. Something about seeing all those names rolling on and on and on… really drives home the paranoia.

“They’s all out to gets us, precious. They wants our guns, they do, precious.”

68 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:02:18pm

re: #63 Ian G.

I may be Godwinning here, but do you know who else had an enemies list?

It’s as American as apple pie. To summarize some of the above: Nixon, Hoover, Johnson, McCarthy. Sterling examples of propriety.

69 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:02:19pm

Ahmet Ertegun

XXX PAT BOONE STRAIGHT EDGE XXX

70 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:04:12pm

AARP is their enemy. I have thought a few times of joining AARP after I turned 50. I just went and registered at their site. I haven’t joined as a member just yet but I am going to check them out.

71 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:05:10pm

I searched the list in vain for Albert Einstein.

“It is appallingly obvious our technology has exceeded our humanity” - Albert Einstein

“Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal.” - Albert Einstein

“We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” - Albert Einstein

“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” - Albert Einstein

72 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:05:10pm

The American Medical Association. Because, bullets are good for you!

73 Ian G.  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:06:41pm

Roy Hobbs
Tony Clifton
Lennay Kekua

74 The Mountain That Blogs  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:08:02pm

American Firearms Association

Wait, what?

75 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:08:38pm

Whoever said Mel Brooks doesn’t like guns?

76 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:08:43pm

Yo Skip
Nice format and I took advantage of multiple updings on this one.

77 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:08:44pm

re: #71 stabby

Einstein is not a living liberal or liberal organization. Also, there doesn’t appear to explicit support for ‘gun control’ in his quotes.

(Admittedly, I am assuming that the NRA enemy identification algorithm isn’t very sophisticated)

78 Ian G.  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:10:17pm

re: #74 The Mountain That Blogs

Rival organization. You don’t see Los Zetas tolerating MS-13 in their midst, do you?

On another note, how many different Jewish organizations can you count on this list? One wonders if Wayne LaPierre is concerned that “the Jews” are out to get him….

79 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:10:38pm

re: #74 The Mountain That Blogs

American Firearms Association

Wait, what?

Doesn’t surprise me. I recently found out who the Gun Owners of America (GOA) was after someone cited them on Facebook. In a nutshell, the GOA is for people who think the NRA is too liberal.

These nutjobs are like the current Republican Party; they eat their own without hesitation.

80 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:10:57pm

re: #74 The Mountain That Blogs

Ha ha.

The should also add all game animals and their representatives:

Bugs Bunny
Daffy Duck… I think.

81 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:11:27pm

re: #28 dragonath

Oh cheez, I didn’t know the NRA had so many “targets”…

Sure you can buy a box of 500. I just had no idea they had this big free catalog
/////////

82 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:11:37pm

The inclusion of the *entire* Zappa family is bizarre. Gail gave/gives money to various DNC candidates, but the kids are not particularly vocal.

Frank had a throwaway song called “Jesus Thinks You’re a Jerk” with the following lyric:

Some folks don’t want prayer in school
We’d need an ark to survive the drool
Of Micro-publicans raised on hate
And ‘Jimbo-jumbo’ when they graduate

Convinced they are the chosen ones
And all their parents carry guns
And hold them cards in the NRA
(with their fingers on the triggers
When they kneel and pray)

With a ku-klux muu-muu
In the back of the truck
If you aint born again
They wanna mess you up, screamin:
No abortion, no-siree!
Lifes too precious, can’t you see!
(what’s that hangin from the neighbors tree?
Why, it looks like colored folks to me —
Would they do that…seriously?)

83 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:11:53pm

re: #77 EPR-radar

(Admittedly, I am assuming that the NRA enemy identification algorithm isn’t very sophisticated)

Well, it’s as accurate as a group of liquored up, paranoid gun freaks with access to Google can be.

84 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:11:54pm

re: #78 Ian G.

Rival organization. You don’t see Los Zetas tolerating MS-13 in their midst, do you?

On another note, how many different Jewish organizations can you count on this list? One wonders if Wayne LaPierre is concerned that “the Jews” are out to get him….

Also black organizations, old people’s organizations, and women’s organizations.

Maybe it’s an attempt at Hispanic outreach.

85 The Mountain That Blogs  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:12:19pm

Coreta Scott King – Activist

First off, how dare MLK’s widow not be all gaga about guns. Secondly, isn’t she dead?

86 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:13:23pm

The Republican Party just might self-destruct in a steaming pile of bigotry over the immigration reform proposal. The nuts are already revving up the “amnesty” talking points.

Last time this happened, the nuts won. Let’s see what happens this time, with a loony Tea Party House.

87 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:13:53pm

Paging through this list, it’s obvious that LaPierre’s views on what is driving teenage violence isn’t just stuck in the 90’s. Apparently they haven’t updated their “enemies list” in decades.

88 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:13:55pm

re: #85 The Mountain That Blogs

Coreta Scott King - Activist

First off, how dare MLK’s widow not be all gaga about guns. Secondly, isn’t she dead?

She’s not the only dead person on there, but she might be the only one widowed by a guy with a gun.

89 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:14:55pm

I actually have to give some credit to John McCain for coming back with another try at immigration reform, after he was spanked so severely by the base last time.

90 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:15:46pm

re: #89 Charles Johnson

I actually have to give some credit to John McCain for coming back with another try at immigration reform, after he was spanked so severely by the base last time.

And making that stupid ad with Paul Babeu.

91 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:15:52pm

re: #89 Charles Johnson

I actually have to give some credit to John McCain for coming back with another try at immigration reform, after he was spanked so severely by the base last time.

I’ll credit him with it if a bill actually gets written and he puts his vote behind it. Til then, I’m still expecting him to jump ship the moment this looks like it will hurt his reelection chances.

92 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:16:11pm

re: #86 Charles Johnson

The Republican Party just might self-destruct in a steaming pile of bigotry over the immigration reform proposal. The nuts are already revving up the “amnesty” talking points.

Last time this happened, the nuts won. Let’s see what happens this time, with a loony Tea Party House.

I really can’t see anything useful getting through the House, and its going to get very ugly. RedState is presently pre-emptively hyperventilating on the subject.

93 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:18:02pm

re: #92 EPR-radar

I really can’t see anything useful getting through the House, and its going to get very ugly. RedState is presently pre-emptively hyperventilating on the subject.

Supposing a bill actually does get written in the Senate and passed, I expect the House will subsequently strip anything resembling “amnesty” from it, beef up the border security measures, and send it back. It’ll die an ignoble death, but the GOP will say “Hey, we tried to pass reform, but the Democrats insisted on ‘amnesty’ and we’re not going to support that.”

94 Denji  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:18:47pm

B`nai B`rith? Hahaha what the hell

95 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:19:19pm

Image: h1386FCC0.jpg

Later, lizards.

96 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:20:11pm

The Ambulatory Pediatric Association wants to grab your guns!

97 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:20:22pm

OT: Does anyone else get this ad that says “see the three people who unfriended you” ?

Ads I don’t mind, but these assholes are spammers by legitimate ads. I only use Facebook to watch what my kids and a handful of friends are up to.

98 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:20:49pm

re: #93 Targetpractice

Sounds about right. But the geniuses in the House will talk about what they are doing, and that isn’t going to play well. Dimwits like Louie Gohmert, Steve King et al. cannot be trained to be non-offensive.

99 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:23:18pm

Everybody on #TGDN is totally fucking insane


This is what they are tweeting back and forth: some rumor that started on some wingnut’s Facebook page! And all the rest of the Birther shit, MOAR GUNZ, Fake Quotes, and Benghazi-ghazi-ghazi-stan.

Buncha fucking morons.

100 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:26:04pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

The Ambulatory Pediatric Association wants to grab your guns!

I notice that American United for Separation of Church and State, which is not a minor player in the field, is not included.

Religious Right Leaders Blame Newtown Shooting On Church-State Separation

101 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:26:24pm

re: #98 EPR-radar

Sounds about right. But the geniuses in the House will talk about what they are doing, and that isn’t going to play well. Dimwits like Louie Gohmert, Steve King et al. cannot be trained to be non-offensive.

I don’t really consider it a serious effort at the moment, mostly because the media’s hailing it as some grand “concession” by the GOP to acknowledge the need for a path to citizenship. Even had a wingnut post a link to a WSJ editorial, which (predictably) is accusing Obama of not really wanting reform because he hasn’t “reached out” to Rubio.

102 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:28:51pm

So the BSA is thinking about reversing its position on gay scouts/scoutleaders

Freep has this to say

To: kristinn

Changing the Boy Scouts into an organization which conditions and brainwashes boys to think “Sodomy is Good”-—the mindset of little sodomized Afghani boys—and the German “Boy Scouts” groups which were actually Founded by a homosexual in the 1800’s-—so they could get a group of boys and have orgies in the woods.

Homosexuality became the National Vice of Germany in the early 1900’s and formed the Nazi party. It is learned and habituated as all Ancient cultures prove-—all homosexual societies—like the Samurai uses little boys. That is their training ground. Most homosexuals are sexually abused-—and all are abused at least emotionally.

Very sick, evil people— who are trying to normalize such an unnatural, learned behavior where nothing can be “evil” if anal sex isn’t. How warped and dehumanizing our Toxic Culture has become and how devoid of Common Sense—the origin of this once great USA. Remove Reason—and we will go into chaos. Promoting Vice like sodomy is evil—particularly evil when you promote it to little children which warps their sexuality and thinking about Reality.

They throw out Christian Ethics for the Satanic, NWO, Kissinger Ethics of the Bohemian gardens where they enact child sacrifice and perform their sodomy acts in worship of Ba’al.

These people are extremely evil, folks. The useful idiots who try to rationalize this “lust” and abnormal use of body parts—and claim it is “love” and “good” are mentally ill and godless.

46 posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 11:50:39 AM by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

103 Awea  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:29:20pm

re: #99 Vicious Babushka

Shh…don’t anyone tell them about the part of the “oath of office”
…that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

104 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:29:32pm

Can wingnuts even keep track of everyone they are boycotting?

PETITION FAIL.

SPELING IZ TEH ENEMAY!1!

105 Awea  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:31:18pm

Father of Newtown victim heckeld at hearing.

Father of Newtown victim heckled at hearing.

106 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:31:27pm

Boy Scouts: secret agents of Carthaginian ritual homo sacrifice

107 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:31:57pm

GO GALT ALREADY!

Please, please, the Gulch is calling. Give up social media, give up Faux Noise, give up Walmart and Kroger, TAKE UR GUNZ and GO GO GO GALT.

108 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:32:15pm

Evening Lizardim. I have a moral dilemma. It relates to a previous thread from today. See, I’m a Bible-believing Christian and I try to live a moral life, but I don’t own any guns. Am I going to hell?

109 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:32:20pm

re: #101 Targetpractice

I don’t really consider it a serious effort at the moment, mostly because the media’s hailing it as some grand “concession” by the GOP to acknowledge the need for a path to citizenship. Even had a wingnut post a link to a WSJ editorial, which (predictably) is accusing Obama of not really wanting reform because he hasn’t “reached out” to Rubio.

The Republicans are caught in a fine trap —- they can’t afford to do nothing on this issue, because that will accelerate their dire demographic problems (e.g., TX becoming a swing state).

However, the base isn’t going to support anything they view as an amnesty. When the base gets riled up, the ugly nativism gushes out for all to see. This exercise by the GOP leaders is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

110 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:33:02pm

re: #108 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Evening Lizardim. I have a moral dilemma. It relates to a previous thread from today. See, I’m a Bible-believing Christian and I try to live a moral life, but I don’t own any guns. Am I going to hell?

You are in hell already.

111 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:33:03pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

I’m disappointed I didn’t make it. Oh well, maybe next year.

I guess you don’t have enough money, that they know about.

112 Skeetghazi  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:33:41pm

Just arriving to thread.

Skip, huge applause for this.

National Spinal Cord Injury Association, but of course.

113 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:33:59pm

Do these jokers really wanna fuck with Rambo?!?!
Morans.
;)

114 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:34:30pm

re: #108 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Evening Lizardim. I have a moral dilemma. It relates to a previous thread from today. See, I’m a Bible-believing Christian and I try to live a moral life, but I don’t own any guns. Am I going to hell?

Is this a trick question? Of course you are going to hell. Gun apostasy is punished in ditch 6 of the 8th circle (hip deep in molten lead).

115 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:35:39pm

re: #110 Vicious Babushka

You are in hell already.

I suppose it was a rhetorical question to begin with. After all, according to the holier-than-thous, everyone except for themselves is going to hell.

116 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:36:32pm

re: #97 Achilles Tang

OT: Does anyone else get this ad that says “see the three people who unfriended you” ?

Ads I don’t mind, but these assholes are spammers by legitimate ads. I only use Facebook to watch what my kids and a handful of friends are up to.

LOL! I must have been one who unfriended you! At the same time you unfriended me!

117 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:36:35pm

re: #109 EPR-radar

The Republicans are caught in a fine trap —- they can’t afford to do nothing on this issue, because that will accelerate their dire demographic problems (e.g., TX becoming a swing state).

However, the base isn’t going to support anything they view as an amnesty. When the base gets riled up, the ugly nativism gushes out for all to see. This exercise by the GOP leaders is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

That’s really it, the leadership knows they have to do something to address the growing demographic imbalance, but that their base is all but openly racist and will fight tooth and nail against “amnesty.” I really do expect that they’ll try again with the “Legal immigrants and Latinos in general hate illegals,” in another vain hope that they can convince Latinos that a “Deport’em All!” approach is not thinly-veiled racism.

118 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:37:21pm

So my kid, MY KID, comes home from work today and tells me that he doesn’t think Sandy Hook happened.

WTF????

119 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:38:01pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

So my kid, MY KID, comes home from work today and tells me that he doesn’t think Sandy Hook happened.

WTF????

Oh dear.
Time for a talk methinks.

120 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:38:01pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

So my kid, MY KID, comes home from work today and tells me that he doesn’t think Sandy Hook happened.

WTF????

Check who he is following on Twitter.

121 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:38:34pm

LOL

122 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:38:53pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

So my kid, MY KID, comes home from work today and tells me that he doesn’t think Sandy Hook happened.

WTF????

Check for a pod in his closet.

//

123 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:38:55pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

So my kid, MY KID, comes home from work today and tells me that he doesn’t think Sandy Hook happened.

WTF????

Sounds like a few good lessons in critical thinking are forthcoming.

124 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:39:04pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

tell him he is making spacejesus cry

125 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:39:34pm

re: #108 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Evening Lizardim. I have a moral dilemma. It relates to a previous thread from today. See, I’m a Bible-believing Christian and I try to live a moral life, but I don’t own any guns. Am I going to hell?

In heaven anyone can have all the guns they want.

126 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:40:22pm

re: #119 Varek Raith

Oh dear.
Time for a talk methinks.

Friend at work showed him a video.

I reminded him about Michael Moore and James O’Keefe.

127 gwangung  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:40:32pm

re: #105 Awea

Father of Newtown victim heckeld at hearing.

Father of Newtown victim heckled at hearing.

Jaw drops. HAVE THEY NO SHAME??????

128 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:40:39pm

re: #125 Achilles Tang

In heaven anyone can have all the guns they want.

Yeah, but in hell the bullets are nuclear.
So…
We win.
:P

129 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:40:39pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

In addition to critical thinking as mentioned above, it may make sense to see if this was promoted by any authority figures at school.

130 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:40:51pm

re: #125 Achilles Tang

In heaven anyone can have all the guns they want.

but no gun dogs?

131 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:41:35pm

Hubby just told him not to be stupid.

LOL

132 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:42:40pm

re: #131 FemNaziBitch

Hubby just told him not to be stupid.

LOL

That made me laugh.

133 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:42:54pm

I think it is a good lesson in critical thinking. At 18, one is still dealing with so many emotional changes it’s a good time to learn when you are thinking emotional and reacting emotionally or intellectually.

134 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:43:47pm

re: #127 gwangung

Jaw drops. HAVE THEY NO SHAME??????

SANDY HOOK JUST STAGED TO TAKE ATTENTION AWAY FROM BENGHAZI!1!1TY

Srsly. They really believe this at TGDN. It’s like all the concentrated crazy from Freep, Breitbart and Hotair squashed into 140-characters each.

135 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:45:00pm

re: #133 FemNaziBitch

I think it is a good lesson in critical thinking. At 18, one is still dealing with so many emotional changes it’s a good time to learn when you are thinking emotional and reacting emotionally or intellectually.

Although the question of why one would latch onto Sandy Hook denial remains a live one —- this is bit out there for ordinary teenager boneheadedness.

136 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:45:38pm

re: #86 Charles Johnson

The Republican Party just might self-destruct in a steaming pile of bigotry over the immigration reform proposal. The nuts are already revving up the “amnesty” talking points.

Last time this happened, the nuts won. Let’s see what happens this time, with a loony Tea Party House.

The GOP will easily cede the Latino vote to the Dems for the next few decades if the loons in the House win.

137 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:45:40pm

Seeing so many singers, actors, writers, and directors on that list reminds me of that unfortunate quote:

when I hear the word culture, I reach for my gun

Not to mention having a “list” like this in the context of an individual would be grounds for an expulsion or worse.

138 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:46:13pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

So my kid, MY KID, comes home from work today and tells me that he doesn’t think Sandy Hook happened.

WTF????

Oh dear. This is where the internal questioning about parenting starts.

139 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:46:44pm

re: #136 Lidane

The GOP will easily cede the Latino vote to the Dems for the next few decades if the loons in the House win.

Speaking of the House, rumor has it they’re going to be releasing their own reform proposals on Wednesday. That should be a hoot, considering most of the Tea Party lunacy is concentrated in the House GOP caucus.

140 Skeetghazi  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:47:14pm

re: #131 FemNaziBitch

Hubby just told him not to be stupid.

LOL

Simple. And to the point.

141 Mentis Fugit  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:47:36pm

re: #11 wrenchwench

What a great list! Includes some of my favorite people, some of whom have sadly passed on. I don’t think it’s polite to put dead people on one’s enemies list. Oh, wait. Making the list itself is not politeun-American.

FTFY.

Come 2016 they will still have their guns. And their limp, tiny penises.

142 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:48:18pm

re: #135 EPR-radar

Although the question of why one would latch onto Sandy Hook denial remains a live one —- this is bit out there for ordinary teenager boneheadedness.

I don’t think it’s a just a “teenager” thing. We works with all kinds at a “christian” nursing home. Large corporation, but still.

The guy showed the video to a bunch of people after work.

Strange, I agree, but a good learning experience.

143 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:48:51pm

re: #127 gwangung

Jaw drops. HAVE THEY NO SHAME??????

A dead child provides a limited amount of public empathy. It evaporates quickly in the world of ox-goring. Call it the ‘Sheehan Effect”.

144 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:49:07pm

Stallone? REALLY?

I’ve seen both Expendables films. If those aren’t love letters to mindless, cheesy violence and guns, I don’t know what is.

145 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:49:13pm

re: #139 Targetpractice

Speaking of the House, rumor has it they’re going to be releasing their own reform proposals on Wednesday. That should be a hoot, considering most of the Tea Party lunacy is concentrated in the House GOP caucus.

I can’t wait for that. The House will probably claim their proposals are moderate because they rely on self-deportation and because their fence proposal does not have funding for a 2,000 mile long moat with sharks (+ lasers).

146 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:49:58pm

re: #127 gwangung

Jaw drops. HAVE THEY NO SHAME??????

Pfft. A lot of those knuckle-draggers think the Sandy Hook shootings were a hoax so Obama could steal their gunz.

Buncha fucking morons.

147 gwangung  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:51:17pm

re: #146 Lidane

Pfft. A lot of those knuckle-draggers think the Sandy Hook shootings were a hoax so Obama could steal their gunz.

And they would obviously tell that to the parents who lost a child.

They’re lucky they kept their teeth after that display.

148 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:51:39pm

Just sent the kid the link to skeptics magazine.

*snicker*

149 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:52:25pm

re: #147 gwangung

And they would obviously tell that to the parents who lost a child.

They’re lucky they kept their teeth after that display.

Makes me wonder if a judge/jury would consider it a valid defense if a victim of such a crime was confronted by a conspiracy theorist and punched their lights out a la Buzz Aldrin.

150 Mattand  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:52:34pm

re: #105 Awea

Father of Newtown victim heckeld at hearing.

Father of Newtown victim heckled at hearing.

Wow. I just can’t imagine the mindset that allows one to scream at a grieving father that his kid is less important than owning an assault weapon.

Ladies and gentlemen, your Republican Party, 2013 edition.

151 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:52:37pm

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

If that doesn’t get through to someone, I don’t know what does.

152 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:53:03pm
153 Skeetghazi  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:53:06pm

re: #148 FemNaziBitch

Just sent the kid the link to skeptics magazine.

*snicker*

Ya know, he’s lucky as hell to have an intelligent parent.

154 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:53:07pm

re: #142 FemNaziBitch

I don’t think it’s a just a “teenager” thing. We works with all kinds at a “christian” nursing home. Large corporation, but still.

The guy showed the video to a bunch of people after work.

Strange, I agree, but a good learning experience.

Ah, reminds me of a friend who watched Loose Change and fell for it completely.
Until I pointed him to popular mechanics.
People.
Sheesh.
:)

155 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:54:16pm

re: #147 gwangung

And they would obviously tell that to the parents who lost a child.

They’re lucky they kept their teeth after that display.

“They’re not grieving parents! They’re Obummer’s hired crisis actors!”

I’ve seriously seen people making this claim. I dare them to say it to these parents face to face.

156 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:54:19pm

re: #146 Lidane

Pfft. A lot of those knuckle-draggers think the Sandy Hook shootings were a hoax so Obama could steal their gunz.

Buncha fucking morons.

Not really morons, which is an impolite way of saying mentally limited. They have mental problems, not simply limitations.

157 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:54:40pm

re: #147 gwangung

And they would obviously tell that to the parents who lost a child.

They’re lucky they kept their teeth after that display.

It is ironic that RWNJs who often seem to approve of vigilante violence seem rather prone to committing offenses that would have led to duels in an earlier age

158 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:54:52pm

re: #153 Stanghazi

Ya know, he’s lucky as hell to have an intelligent parent.

Thanks, I think we are all a bit stupid at 18.

and 25

and 35

and on and on.

We have to be constantly vigilant for those who want to sell snake oil. They have never ending ways to ply their trade.

159 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:54:58pm

Some of those ‘Sandy Hook was a Hoax’ vids are very slick.
Sigh.

160 Skeetghazi  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:55:00pm

re: #155 Lidane

I’ve seriously seen people making this claim. I dare them to say it to these parents face to face.

It appears someone did, alas.

161 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:55:05pm

re: #145 EPR-radar

I can’t wait for that. The House will probably claim their proposals are moderate because they rely on self-deportation and because their fence proposal does not have funding for a 2,000 mile long moat with sharks (+ lasers).

I expect that the House proposals will be heavy on expanding “border security” and the concession towards Latinos will be a few thousand more visas and perhaps talk about considering a path to citizenship once the border is “secure.”

162 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:55:39pm

re: #159 Varek Raith

Some of those ‘Sandy Hook was a Hoax’ vids are very slick.
Sigh.

So were the “Troofer” ones. Didn’t make them any less full of shit.

163 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:56:04pm

Emulating Westboro Bible Church tactics, at a legislative hearing, no less.

How to make friends and influence people!

164 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:56:32pm

re: #162 Targetpractice

So were the “Troofer” ones. Didn’t make them any less full of shit.

I actually found someone on another forum who was “compelled” by the original Loose Change. My jaw just dropped. I had a hard time not unleashing a torrent of abuse at them.

165 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:56:35pm

re: #127 gwangung

Jaw drops. HAVE THEY NO SHAME??????

This is America. The nation has agreed for decades that guns are way more precious than people.

166 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:56:57pm

re: #161 Targetpractice

I expect that the House proposals will be heavy on expanding “border security” and the concession towards Latinos will be a few thousand more visas and perhaps talk about considering a path to citizenship once the border is “secure.”

In other words, a whole lot of nothing wrapped up in more concern trolling:

167 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:57:11pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

So my kid, MY KID, comes home from work today and tells me that he doesn’t think Sandy Hook happened.

WTF????

Perfect teachable moment.

Now’s your chance to teach what a conspiracy nut is, what evidence is, what reliable media looks like, what schizophrenic ranting online looks like, what paranoia does to people, what “confirmation bias” is
etc
etc
etc
[Link: xkcd.com…]

168 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:57:28pm

re: #155 Lidane

I’ve seriously seen people making this claim. I dare them to say it to these parents face to face.

I’d be interested to hear one say it to my face; but it’s doubtful they say it to anyone’s face. The internet is what gives them the voice they would never otherwise have.

169 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:57:41pm

re: #159 Varek Raith

Some of those ‘Sandy Hook was a Hoax’ vids are very slick.
Sigh.

Production values are irrelevant here. The LOTR movies had fine production values.

170 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:57:55pm

re: #162 Targetpractice

So were the “Troofer” ones. Didn’t make them any less full of shit.

Sadly all it takes is that kind of thing to convince large numbers of people.

171 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:58:01pm

re: #168 Achilles Tang

I’d be interested to hear one say it to my face; but it’s doubtful they say it to anyone’s face. The internet is what gives them the voice they would never otherwise have.

Cowards are cowardly. Film at 11.

172 Wayne A. Schneider  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:58:14pm

I’m disappointed I didn’t make the list.

173 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 6:58:30pm

re: #151 erik_t

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

If that doesn’t get through to someone, I don’t know what does.

BENGHAZI!1!
LORD OBAMA TOLD MILITARY THEY HAVE TO FIRE ON U.S. CITIZENS!1!
What do u mean he never said that. PROVE HE DIDN’T!1! UR A TROLL!1!
I BLOCK U

I closed the Tweetdeck. Really, I totally did.

174 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:00:08pm

You need to teach your kid to trust the vast network of reliable media and real experts - that if something horrible happens, then it will come out on most of the RELIABLE media, that the actually educated and respected people will talk about it.

Your child may be a skeptic, but that should be easy to fix by teaching him or her to be a BETTER skeptic. To learn to apply skeptical criteria to other skeptics.

175 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:00:36pm

re: #169 EPR-radar

Production values are irrelevant here. The LOTR movies had fine production values.

It does matter.
A lot. Wouldn’t need books like this otherwise.
:(
[Link: www.barnesandnoble.com…]

176 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:00:41pm

re: #172 Wayne A. Schneider

Don’t take it personally. They just ran out of paper.

177 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:00:41pm
178 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:00:50pm

re: #166 Lidane

In other words, a whole lot of nothing wrapped up in more concern trolling:

[Embedded content]

Like I said, I’m not taking these proposals seriously, not until a bill actually gets out of committee. If nothing else, it’s the GOP trying to convince Latinos that they “care” about immigration reform, but once again portraying Obama and Democrats as resistant to “reasonable” proposals.

179 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:01:56pm

re: #175 Varek Raith

It does matter.
A lot. Wouldn’t need books like this otherwise.
:(
[Link: www.barnesandnoble.com…]

I should have said “production values should not matter”. The fact that they are relevant is a problem.

180 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:02:15pm

re: #179 EPR-radar

I should have said “production values should not matter”. The fact that they are relevant is a problem.

Got ya.

181 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:02:48pm
182 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:02:59pm

re: #149 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Makes me wonder if a judge/jury would consider it a valid defense if a victim of such a crime was confronted by a conspiracy theorist and punched their lights out a la Buzz Aldrin.

“Fighting Words” is a defense even here in Wisconsin as I recall… and I know I’d consider that to be fighting words.

183 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:03:58pm

re: #174 stabby

You need to teach your kid to trust the vast network of reliable media and real experts - that if something horrible happens, then it will come out on most of the RELIABLE media, that the actually educated and respected people will talk about it.

Your child may be a skeptic, but that should be easy to fix by teaching him or her to be a BETTER skeptic. To learn to apply skeptical criteria to other skeptics.

I told him he can & needs to do the research himself.

There is no longer any excuse. He knows how to use the internet, and wrote some very good papers in HS. I know he can do it.

Just needs to be reminded everyonce in a while.

Teenager, male … .

184 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:06:16pm

re: #82 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The inclusion of the *entire* Zappa family is bizarre. Gail gave/gives money to various DNC candidates, but the kids are not particularly vocal.

Frank had a throwaway song called “Jesus Thinks You’re a Jerk” with the following lyric:

And from the infamous Austin band, The Lounge Lizards:

I know you smoke, I know you drink that brew,
I just can’t abide a sinner like you.
God can’t either, that’s why I know it’s true,
That Jesus loves me but he can’t stand you.

I’m going straight to heaven, boys, when I die,
‘cause I’ve crossed every T and I’ve dotted every I
Why, my preacher tells me I’m god’s kind of guy,
That’s why Jesus loves me, but you’re gonna fry.

God loves all his children, by gum,
That doesn’t mean he won’t incinerate some,
Can’t you feel those hot flames licking you?

I’m raising my kids in a righteous way,
So don’t be sending your kids to my house to play,
Yours will grow up stoned, left leaning and gay,
I know - Jesus told me on the phone today.

Jesus loves me, this I know
And he told me where you’re gonna go,
There’s room for your kind down below
Whoa, whoa, whoa

Jesus loves me, he loves me real good. I know he does. He called me up on the phone today and told me how much he loves me. He said, “Son, I love you.” He speaks English pretty well, considering it’s a second language for him. You can talk to him, too, you know. I’ve got a 900- number in Tulsa you can call him at, I do it all the time. He’ll be glad to hear from you. I talk to him everyday.

Jesus love me, but he can’t stand you.

185 Renaissance_Man  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:06:50pm

re: #183 FemNaziBitch

I told him he can needs to do the research himself.

There is no longer any excuse. He knows how to use the internet, and wrote some very good papers in HS. I know he can do it.

Just needs to be reminded everyonce in a while.

Teenager, male … .

Bear in mind that the internet is used to confirm what we already believe, not to actually explore topics. The internet is why these conspiracy theories flourish in the first place.

He most likely believes this because he likes the person who showed the video and wants to agree. A touch of common sense, which would tell him otherwise, is not going to be found on the internet.

186 LWNJ  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:06:51pm

re: #97 Achilles Tang

OT: Does anyone else get this ad that says “see the three people who unfriended you” ?

Ads I don’t mind, but these assholes are spammers by legitimate ads. I only use Facebook to watch what my kids and a handful of friends are up to.

I get it too, and I’m not ON Facebook.

187 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:07:15pm

FemNaziBitch, one problem is that it can take decades of experience to be reliable at distinguishing reliable sources from polemicists and paranoids.

The problem with both is that they’re good at making you feel fear, and thus taking over your mind.

Seriously, when you think there’s danger somewhere, then your mind is FOCUSED and stuck, and all finer emotions and interests are swept under the rug. Even TV suspense drama can do that to you - day after day after day….

189 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:08:14pm

We spend more money than the next seventeen countires combined on defense, but somehow we’re going to be defenseless if we cut anything:

190 gwangung  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:08:44pm

re: #178 Targetpractice

Like I said, I’m not taking these proposals seriously, not until a bill actually gets out of committee. If nothing else, it’s the GOP trying to convince Latinos that they “care” about immigration reform, but once again portraying Obama and Democrats as resistant to “reasonable” proposals.

The problem is that this is “reasonable to WHITE people.” The Republicans have yet to figure out that you can’t convince Latinos that they care if they’re going bat shit over proposals that LATINOS like.

191 dkostek  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:09:19pm

Dear NRA:

Nora Ephron is dead.

Sincerely,
People who pay attention

192 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:10:11pm

re: #190 gwangung

The problem is that this is “reasonable to WHITE people.” The Republicans have yet to figure out that you can’t convince Latinos that they care if they’re going bat shit over proposals that LATINOS like.

EVERYONE KNOWS ALL LATINOS ARE ILLEGAL ANYWAY.

////

193 LWNJ  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:10:17pm

re: #118 FemNaziBitch

So my kid, MY KID, comes home from work today and tells me that he doesn’t think Sandy Hook happened.

WTF????

(Oops, read too fast. Never mind.)

194 calochortus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:10:19pm

re: #191 dkostek

Dear NRA:

Nora Ephron is dead.

Sincerely,
People who pay attention

Bet she still doesn’t like the NRA…

195 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:10:40pm

re: #185 Renaissance_Man

Bear in mind that the internet is used to confirm what we already believe, not to actually explore topics. The internet is why these conspiracy theories flourish in the first place.

He most likely believes this because he likes the person who showed the video and wants to agree. A touch of common sense, which would tell him otherwise, is not going to be found on the internet.

Once he actually takes the time to think, I have no doubts about what conclusions he’ll draw.

He is one of those people who doesn’t “think on his feet” as quickly as other people do or as quickly as his mother. I’ve had to learn this when he was young.

It was very frustrating. Still can’t use a lot of sarcasm around him.

He’s one of those extremely bright children that will never be in sales.

196 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:10:46pm

re: #183 FemNaziBitch

Teenager, male … .

Yes, I was one once. I won’t tell any stories and thankfully I don’t remember most of them.

197 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:10:49pm

re: #189 Lidane

We spend more money than the next seventeen countires combined on defense, but somehow we’re going to be defenseless if we cut anything:

Image: Can__tExplainThat.gif

198 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:10:58pm

FemNaziBitch, actually it’s worse because as bad as fear is, the feeling of enmity is even more all consuming.

Self righteous anger is addicting. Stories with villains are addicting. People get addicted to propaganda and slowly turn into haters.

199 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:11:01pm

re: #186 LWNJ

I get it too, and I’m not ON Facebook.

Yeah, stupid spam ads.

200 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:11:39pm

re: #189 Lidane

Fun fact. In number of soldiers per person, we actually lag behind Scandinavia.

If we had a military, per thousand people the same size as Norway or Denmark, there would by 4.5 million soldiers in the US Armed Forces.

Sweden? Military of 7.2 Million Men and Women.

We are very, very inefficient with our defense funds.

201 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:11:46pm

re: #195 FemNaziBitch

He’s one of those extremely bright children that will never be in sales.

Thank God.

202 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:11:53pm

re: #189 Lidane

OBAMA GUTTING MILITARY!

The Tea Party has plenty of gut left.

203 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:11:55pm

Godwin, part Eleventy ZOMG:

204 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:12:30pm

re: #196 Achilles Tang

Yes, I was one once. I won’t tell any stories and thankfully I don’t remember most of them.

You are no longer a teenager or male?

LOL

205 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:12:39pm

re: #183 FemNaziBitch

Not to be harsh- but I’d think it’d be instructive to point out being a Sandy Truther would make you allies with the strident assholes who yell at bereaved parents.

I mean, guns (specifically, the AR-15) are that important… why? Since when did people use assault rifles for any constructive purpose beyond entertainment?

206 Ming  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:13:24pm

The NRA enemies list is a classic illustration of a simple fact: for all its patriotic rhetoric, the radical right is at war with mainstream America.

207 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:13:33pm

re: #174 stabby

You need to teach your kid to trust the vast network of reliable media and real experts - that if something horrible happens, then it will come out on most of the RELIABLE media, that the actually educated and respected people will talk about it.

Your child may be a skeptic, but that should be easy to fix by teaching him or her to be a BETTER skeptic. To learn to apply skeptical criteria to other skeptics.

Skeptics are kind of morons. The Amazing Randy forums (las I checked a few years ago) were full of Ron Paul Fans. Penn Jillette was active in the early stages of the Tea Party and even co-hosted one live on Fox News with Glenn Beck. I have my doubts about modern skepticism.

208 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:13:42pm

re: #203 Lidane

Hitler put into effect total gun control for all Jews!

They’re just not thinking through the whole “national army vs. my posse” scenario.

209 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:13:55pm

re: #203 Lidane

He doesn’t like me.

210 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:14:43pm

re: #159 Varek Raith

Some of those ‘Sandy Hook was a Hoax’ vids are very slick.
Sigh.

I know a lot of people don’t like the Amazing Atheist but he did a good job here taking down the Sandy Hook truthers here largely with the help from a Reddit member, Preggit.

Obviously it’s total BS. The Reddit post is here.

211 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:14:46pm
212 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:14:50pm

re: #183 FemNaziBitch

I told him he can & needs to do the research himself.

There is no longer any excuse. He knows how to use the internet, and wrote some very good papers in HS. I know he can do it.

Just needs to be reminded everyonce in a while.

Teenager, male … .

Older than I imagined.

Should work, I hope.

Makes me wonder if my brother still believes in UFOs

213 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:15:06pm

Add Amory to that list!!!!

214 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:15:20pm

re: #205 dragonath

Not to be harsh- but I’d think it’d be instructive to point out being a Sandy Truther would make you allies with the strident assholes who yell at bereaved parents.

I mean, guns are that important… why? Since when did people use assault rifles for any constructive purpose beyond entertainment?

He probably doesn’t even know these people exist. Learning about the larger world at this point for him is learning to drive in Chicago and visiting friends on college campuses.

Watching the news —pfft, not part of his day, nor his friends.

He’s not a big joiner —I’m not to worried.

215 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:15:38pm

re: #204 FemNaziBitch

You are no longer a teenager or male?

You need to recognize compound statements.

216 dkostek  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:18:34pm

Some Googling indicates that this was first published in March 1, 2012. At the time, Nora Ephron was not dead. However…

PS: Jackie Cooper is dead (and was on March 1, 2012)

(See: [Link: dailycaller.com…]

217 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:19:05pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

I’m disappointed I didn’t make it. Oh well, maybe next year.

That made me think of the perfect theme song for the NRA.

218 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:19:27pm

re: #207 Killgore Trout

Skeptics are kind of morons.

People are kind of morons. The alternatives to skepticism are worse. It’s kind of like democracy, “the worst system except for all the others.” Skepticism takes more work and gives less comfort than say, believing your priest, but unless your priest is a lot wiser than most, it leads to ridiculous imbalances and loss of potential.

The fictional character who said “When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything” was not spouting wisdom in my opinion.

219 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:19:42pm
220 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:20:20pm

Look at me!! I’m a grown up! I can wear an onion, er a gun on my belt!! I’m all grown up and responsible look at me!!!

221 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:20:25pm

re: #210 Gus

I know a lot of people don’t like the Amazing Atheist but he did a good job here taking down the Sandy Hook truthers here largely with the help from a Reddit member, Preggit.

[Embedded content]

Obviously it’s total BS. The Reddit post is here.

I have reservations about people who spend that much time debunking something that can’t have any effect on those supposedly addressed.

222 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:20:41pm
223 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:20:51pm

The NRA Publishes

enemies lists tend to become less useful when they approach 50% of the population

224 LWNJ  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:21:01pm

re: #219 Lidane

Sounds like a good place to put it to me.

225 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:21:50pm

I’d be willing to bet some of them names are on other right wing watch lists.

226 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:22:23pm

re: #223 engineer cat

The NRA Publishes

enemies lists tend to become less useful when they approach 50% of the population

Good point.

This list really disturbs me. The adversarial approach is the wrong one to take in this issue. I don’t like the whole attitude.

227 erik_t  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:22:50pm

re: #223 engineer cat

The NRA Publishes

enemies lists tend to become less useful when they approach 50% of the population

You’re either with us or against us!

228 engineer cat  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:22:51pm

“When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything”

who said i believe in nothing??

229 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:23:56pm

re: #218 stabby

The fictional character who said “When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything” was not spouting wisdom in my opinion.

When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they just don’t believe in God

230 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:25:08pm

re: #210 Gus

Paranoid delusional fucktards.

Indeed!

231 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:25:20pm

Looks like all the Zappas are on the list.

232 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:25:34pm

re: #227 erik_t

You’re either with us or against us!

I think I’d rather be friendly with Jennifer Connelly and Catherine Zeta-Jones.

233 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:27:13pm

I listened to the Librivox recording of Conrad’s Heart of Darkness recently. Very well done and an haunting novel. Apocalypse Now actually did a good job of capturing the “feel” of the book. I was rather surprised at this.

234 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:27:27pm
235 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:28:47pm

re: #214 FemNaziBitch

Well there’s a hell of a lot of media with self-evidently, self serving agendas out there- and once in a while they snare honest people here.

Recently I had to talk a friend down from supporting gold currency. Fringy media does a good job in ticking off all sorts of confirmation biases.

You can’t believe much that’s written on the internet, and double for twitter. I wish I could tell that to people who believe every word written in whatever Regnery Books published lately.

236 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:30:48pm
237 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:31:00pm

re: #235 dragonath

I think I remember (before the recession but after he retired) Alan Greenspan being interviewed.

When asked about the gold standard, he opinioned that it would have little effect one way or the other. I wonder if he still believes that. QE wouldn’t be possible on a gold standard would it?

238 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:31:09pm

OT: Ruben Egg Rolls????

[Link: www.npr.org…]

239 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:32:48pm

BECUZ AMERICAN MEDIA IZ TOTALLY LIKE THIS U GUYZ:

240 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:34:00pm

re: #236 Lidane

My surprise, let me show you it.

241 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:34:31pm

re: #239 Lidane

BECUZ AMERICAN MEDIA IZ TOTALLY LIKE THIS U GUYZ:

Sense, this makes none.

242 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:35:54pm
243 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:36:41pm

re: #241 Varek Raith

Sense, this makes none.

Related:

244 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:37:12pm

re: #237 stabby

I think I remember (before the recession but after he retired) Alan Greenspan being interviewed.

When asked about the gold standard, he opinioned that it would have little effect one way or the other. I wonder if he still believes that. QE wouldn’t be possible on a gold standard would it?

The history of gold as currency is full of nasty, exploitative episodes, I don’t think I could really begin to explain it right here. Suffice to say, I don’t think the worth of a nation, in any sense, should be based more on the arbitrary value of a pretty rock than the value of its goods and services.

No, quantitive easing would not be possible, at least not in the way it is being done now. There’s 1) not enough of it for a country of 300 million people 2) The only people who would be able to own high purity gold would be the very, very rich.

245 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:37:27pm

Man, the Rs are in for another round of totally-didn’t-see-it-coming reality blast.

246 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:37:55pm

re: #243 Lidane

Related:

Dafuq.

247 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:39:44pm

re: #246 Varek Raith

Dafuq.

Image: woodywtf.jpg

248 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:39:46pm

re: #243 Lidane

Related:

The Polish Army had guns.

249 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:40:29pm

re: #243 Lidane

There is a well-known historical shortage of amphibious gunsmiths to properly adjust the trigger pressure for frogs in the NRA.

250 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:40:39pm

re: #248 Gus

The Polish Army had guns.

So did the Frogs French.

251 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:41:13pm

Shit, they had entire armies!

252 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:42:43pm

re: #251 Varek Raith

Shit, they had entire armies!

Moronic revisionist fantasies. These idiots think that if “Jews had guns” they could have resisted the monster that was the 3rd Reich they’re delusional.

253 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:42:49pm

Let me get this straight, gun nuts.
Armed Jews could’ve stopped Hitler/Holocaust?
If it were that easy, why did it take an entire 6 years and a fucking world war to do it?
Fucking idiots.

254 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:43:15pm

re: #187 stabby

FemNaziBitch, one problem is that it can take decades of experience to be reliable at distinguishing reliable sources from polemicists and paranoids.

The problem with both is that they’re good at making you feel fear, and thus taking over your mind.

Seriously, when you think there’s danger somewhere, then your mind is FOCUSED and stuck, and all finer emotions and interests are swept under the rug. Even TV suspense drama can do that to you - day after day after day….

I was perhaps 12 or so when I decided that this god stuff I heard in Sunday School was silly, but I was still, briefly, taken in by Uri Geller bending spoons with his mind by the time I was 20, and much much later I was, briefly, taken in by Palin/McCain.

Now, with all that behind me I am so smart I will never ever be taken in by anything that isn’t true.

255 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:44:26pm

My brains hurted.

256 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:45:13pm

Father of 6-Year-Old Newtown Victim Heckled by Pro-Gun Activists

When Neil Heslin, who was holding a picture of his deceased son, Jesse Lewis, during his testimony, asked the state senate why Bushmaster-type assault rifles should be legal, several gun enthusiasts in the audience reportedly shouted him down, yelling “The Second Amendment!”

257 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:45:51pm

re: #255 Varek Raith

My brains hurted.

That’s a good sign. It means your IQ increased, at least infinitesimally.

258 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:46:52pm

re: #255 Varek Raith

My brains hurted.

Can’t you see the murderous intent in the President’s eyes?

259 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:47:02pm

re: #255 Varek Raith

My brains hurted.

no pain, no gain.

260 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:47:51pm

No one is coming for their stupid guns anyway.

261 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:48:12pm
262 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:48:37pm

So, the kid just watched the Anderson Cooper video and feels very stupid.

Ah, learning experiences.

263 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:49:25pm

re: #244 dragonath

…I don’t think the worth of a nation, in any sense, should be based more on the arbitrary value of a pretty rock than the value of its goods and services.

That’s no way to talk about my molars!

… 2) The only people who would be able to own high purity gold would be the very, very rich.

That’s pretty true now. At $1800/troy oz, few Americans are buying gold jewelry. Other than engagement rings, gold and platinum are outside of the average American’s experience, and even for wedding rings alternative metals are now common.

264 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:51:29pm

re: #245 Varek Raith

Man, the Rs are in for another round of totally-didn’t-see-it-coming reality blast.

Long term? Sure. Demographics are in sanity’s favor.
Short term? Lots of damage can be done if the shitheads flip the senate in the midterms. Worse if the get the White House in 2016.

2020. That’s the important year. Census plus election plus all the demographic changes. Whoever wins that year will shape the rest of the century.

265 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:52:43pm

re: #262 FemNaziBitch

So, the kid just watched the Anderson Cooper video and feels very stupid.

Ah, learning experiences.

Teaching experiences. :)

266 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:52:52pm

re: #261 jaunte

Don McLeroy, appointed by certified Genius, Rick Perry.

267 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:52:58pm

re: #248 Gus

And if not for the Soviets and the evil deal they had, the Polish might have had a chance. The Poles inflicted some serious hurt on Nazi Germany’s military.

268 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:53:08pm

re: #261 jaunte

269 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:53:51pm

re: #266 dragonath

Don McLeroy, appointed by certified Genius, Rick Perry.

Elected.

270 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:54:21pm

re: #261 jaunte

*Rageface*

271 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:55:00pm

Rick Perry. Elected by… uh… the common clay of the new West…

272 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:55:15pm

re: #262 FemNaziBitch

So, the kid just watched the Anderson Cooper video and feels very stupid.

Ah, learning experiences.

I used to read Michele Malkin.
I also voted for Bush and McCain.
So, yeah.

273 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:55:43pm

Don Mcleroy:

He served as chairman from 2007 until 2009, when controversy surrounding his leadership led the Texas Senate to block his confirmation. He has served on the board since 1998. In the 2010 Republican primary, he lost his seat by a narrow margin to Thomas Ratliff, who ran on a platform of taking politics out of education.
[Link: www.texastribune.org…]

274 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:55:50pm

re: #266 dragonath

Don McLeroy, appointed by certified Genius, Rick Perry.

Rick E. Perry, Super Genius.

275 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:56:12pm

re: #263 freetoken

That’s no way to talk about my molars!

That’s pretty true now. At $1800/troy oz, few Americans are buying gold jewelry. Other than engagement rings, gold and platinum are outside of the average American’s experience, and even for wedding rings alternative metals are now common.

One day people will realize that there is nothing one can do with gold except hoard it, or make good reflectors for spacecraft.

276 Shvaughn  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:56:24pm

re: #207 Killgore Trout

I have my doubts about modern skepticism.

Dkos accuses the Obama regime of killing hacker

277 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:57:01pm

re: #275 Achilles Tang

One day people will realize that there is nothing one can do with gold except hoard it, or make good reflectors for spacecraft.

Yes.
Send me gold so I can complete my stellar converter.
For duck hunting.

278 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:57:09pm

Ah. Perry tried to reappoint him.

When McLeroy ran for Texas State Board of Education in 1998, he defeated a Democrat, Mary Delk, 145,556 (55 percent) to 119,149 (45 percent). McLeroy’s strongest counties were his own Brazos as well as Montgomery and Smith counties. In 2002, McLeroy won his second term by defeating the Democrat Dean W. Woodard, 193,454 (63.4 percent) to 111,909 (36.6 percent). In 2006, he defeated Democrat Maggie Charleton, a retired teacher from College Station, 192,218 (59.6 percent) to 130,375 (40.4 percent), who was the choice of the teacher associations.[4] McLeroy’s term on the board expired in January 2011.

McLeroy was appointed Chair of the SBOE on July 17, 2007, by Governor Rick Perry for a term that expired on February 1, 2009. In February 2009, he was reappointed by Perry to a term ending February 1, 2011.[5] However, during a two hour hearing before the Senate Nomination Committee,[6] McLeroy’s reappointment ran into trouble.[7][8][9] On May 28, 2009, his appointment failed to receive the necessary 2/3 majority vote of the Senate with only 19 of 31 Senators voting to approve, 11 voting to reject, and one abstaining.

279 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:57:37pm

re: #275 Achilles Tang

One day people will realize that there is nothing one can do with gold except hoard it, or make good reflectors for spacecraft.

OH NO, we can do soooo much more.

280 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:58:20pm

re: #263 freetoken

That’s no way to talk about my molars!

That’s pretty true now. At $1800/troy oz, few Americans are buying gold jewelry. Other than engagement rings, gold and platinum are outside of the average American’s experience, and even for wedding rings alternative metals are now common.

Silver. Did jewelry making in high school and silver remains my favorite metal of them all. I do have a gold wedding ring but that was because we had metal from family bands melted into custom bands.

But if I were to chose now? I’d have something done in silver. Probably doesn’t hurt that I have a love of film photography as well… but seriously, I enjoyed casting the work I did in that class (lost wax). I wonder if my dad still has it?

281 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:59:05pm

re: #278 Gus

Public education is sort of ironic. Ultimately it will be no better than what the majority of voters will allow.

282 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:59:14pm

Man, I can’t imagine the crazy that will be unleashed when the gold bubble bursts.

283 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:59:25pm

re: #279 FemNaziBitch

OH NO, we can do soooo much more.

Remember, I am a male.

284 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 7:59:58pm

...

285 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:00:04pm

re: #279 FemNaziBitch

OH NO, we can do soooo much more.

Do they fire lasers?

286 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:00:47pm

re: #285 Varek Raith

Do they fire lasers?

No, they make your lady happy, very happy.

287 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:01:21pm

I saw an ad for gold-plated quarters on TV last month. Only $19.99! Clad in gold at least two molecules thick! But think of the rising prices! Buy buy buy

288 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:01:32pm

re: #267 ProBosniaLiberal

And if not for the Soviets and the evil deal they had, the Polish might have had a chance. The Poles inflicted some serious hurt on Nazi Germany’s military.

Eh, in the end, they were a road bump. Had the Soviets stayed out, Poland might have lasted a few more months. But without a second front being opened on Sept 2? Nope. No difference long term.

Now had the French army rolled into western Germany immediately? That would have probably gotten Hitler hung by the generals desperate to avoid the mistakes of 1914.

289 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:01:55pm

re: #287 dragonath

I saw an ad for gold-plated quarters on TV last month. Only $19.99! Clad in gold at least two molecules thick! But think of the rising prices! Buy buy buy

gold-plate?

pfft!

290 Shvaughn  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:02:58pm

Wait, where does this “enemies list” come from and how legit is it?

I see some people saying it dates back to 2012.

The site linked, “Conservative Daily News,” does not look legitimate.

291 LWNJ  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:03:40pm

re: #233 FemNaziBitch

I listened to the Librivox recording of Conrad’s Heart of Darkness recently. Very well done and an haunting novel. Apocalypse Now actually did a good job of capturing the “feel” of the book. I was rather surprised at this.

Which one?

(Their Jane Eyre version is excellent too.)

292 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:03:45pm

re: #282 Varek Raith

Man, I can’t imagine the crazy that will be unleashed when the gold bubble bursts.

India is still growing. Many years ago I visited with a little gold bar in my pocket (which was illegal at the time) that paid for my whole trip at less than the cost of the bar. Call me unethical.

293 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:04:29pm

re: #290 Shvaughn

Wait, where does this “enemies list” come from and how legit is it?

I see some people saying it dates back to 2012.

The site linked, “Conservative Daily News,” does not look legitimate.

This is the real thing

294 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:04:31pm

re: #267 ProBosniaLiberal

And if not for the Soviets and the evil deal they had, the Polish might have had a chance. The Poles inflicted some serious hurt on Nazi Germany’s military.

They’d have lasted a couple weeks longer, maybe a month. But Poland would still have lost, given the power disparity. Polish infantry battalions were equal to their German counterparts, but German regiments had more artillery and once you got to the division level the gap grew wide. German divisions had far more trucks than Polish ones, more 37mm anti-tank guns, more AA guns, and more artillery (both guns and mortars). German also had more tanks and more aircraft.

295 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:05:20pm

re: #286 FemNaziBitch

No, they make your lady happy, very happy.

I’m reminded of an amusing seen in Full Metal Panic.

The main character gives the girl he is protecting from terrorists a pair of earrings. That turn out to be concealed miniature flash bangs.
She throws them at him when he explains there use.

296 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:05:20pm

re: #280 William Barnett-Lewis

I think metal work is neat.

Silver - easy to work with and very useful, but I just am not attracted to the color, and have never worn silver (metal) anything.

I too love the old photography, and have a small library of books on the technical matters. Yet that is all OBE now, a vanishing art.

Of the elements, namely the metals, there are many that can make interesting art and jewelry. However, some of them have such high melting points (e.g. Niobium) that the average metal worker can’t practically cast them, or make alloys.

Th Platinum group metals, other than palladium, have pretty high melting points also. Ruthenium isn’t too expensive but is hard to find, but its melting point is out of reach for most hobbyists/artists too.

I prefer the color of copper, but alas we all know that it loves sulfur and oxygen like crazy and the element color doesn’t last long. Besides copper, the only other two metals with warm color are gold and iridium, and both are horribly expensive (and iridium supposedly difficult to work with - I’d like to try some day.)

297 LWNJ  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:05:28pm

re: #241 Varek Raith

Sense, this makes none.

Yoda, are you channeling?

298 jhrhv  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:05:58pm

Luap Nor’s bicycle

GOLD

299 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:06:25pm

re: #288 William Barnett-Lewis

Eh, in the end, they were a road bump. Had the Soviets stayed out, Poland might have lasted a few more months. But without a second front being opened on Sept 2? Nope. No difference long term.

Now had the French army rolled into western Germany immediately? That would have probably gotten Hitler hung by the generals desperate to avoid the mistakes of 1914.

But Hitler had taken the measure of France and correctly figured that France hadn’t the moral strength to mount an immediate offensive. France in 1939 was traumatized and defensive minded.

300 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:06:40pm

re: #290 Shvaughn

Wait, where does this “enemies list” come from and how legit is it?

I see some people saying it dates back to 2012.

The site linked, “Conservative Daily News,” does not look legitimate.

I found half of it on the NRA’s ‘Institute for Legislative Action’ site.

Still looking for the celebs’ list, haven’t found it yet.

301 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:07:16pm

Mithril! The elves coveted it, etc. etc.

302 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:08:21pm

re: #291 LWNJ

Which one?

(Their Jane Eyre version is excellent too.)

Actually, I just looked in my iTunes. It’s not a Librivox. It’s LoutLit.org, narration by Tom Franks 2007. I downloaded a bunch of free ones last week.

303 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:09:21pm

re: #294 Dark_Falcon

They’d have lasted a couple weeks longer, maybe a month. But Poland would still have lost, given the power disparity. Polish infantry battalions were equal to their German counterparts, but German regiments had more artillery and once you got to the division level the gap grew wide. German divisions had far more trucks than Polish ones, more 37mm anti-tank guns, more AA guns, and more artillery (both guns and mortars). German also had more tanks and more aircraft.

The Czech tanks ensured that Poland would lose. Too many vehicles of much higher quality plus the fact the panzers used radio and intercoms. I believe only the Americans also did that in 39 & I’m not sure about us!

304 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:09:39pm

re: #293 dragonath

This is the real thing

So the NRA doesn’t entitle it as an “Enemies” List?

It’s a list of those with policies the NRA feels are counter to it’s agenda.

Lot’s of organizations do that.

305 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:10:39pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

Even if Poland only lasted a few more weeks, it would have bloodied the Nazis that much more. And, if I remember correctly, the Poles had some sort of Fallback plan to Romania?

306 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:10:56pm

re: #304 FemNaziBitch

So the NRA doesn’t entitle it as an “Enemies” List?

It’s a list of those with policies the NRA feels are counter to it’s agenda.

Lot’s of organizations do that.

But few organizations actually treat their opponents like ‘enemies.’ NRA does.

307 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:11:48pm

re: #301 dragonath

Mithril! The elves coveted it, etc. etc.

Aluminum was highly coveted when it was first isolated and produced. The house of Napoleon was among the first with aluminum dinner ware. The French created an alloy of roughly two parts silver to one part aluminum, and found that the dinnerware composed of such was resistant to tarnishing as was common with the sterling ware.

308 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:11:56pm

re: #289 FemNaziBitch

gold-plate?

pfft!

She Who Must Be Obeyed made me get my left earlobe pierced before our marriage.

“Why?”, I asked.

She leaned toward me and whispered into my ear, “Pain and jewelry, my love.”

So, for Solstice every year, 14-18 kt gold and semiprecious stones. This year was a first-water rubellite tourmaline necklace mounted on a small hammered gold plate. It makes her pale blue eyes glow. Major husband points.

(That original story is apocryphal, by the way. I got my ear pierced after commanding a boat under sail across the equator in Gabon. True fact. The jewelry bit is true. As are the hubby points.)

309 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:13:07pm

sure re: #254 Achilles Tang

I was perhaps 12 or so when I decided that this god stuff I heard in Sunday School was silly, but I was still, briefly, taken in by Uri Geller bending spoons with his mind by the time I was 20, and much much later I was, briefly, taken in by Palin/McCain.

Now, with all that behind me I am so smart I will never ever be taken in by anything that isn’t true.

Everyone was taken in by Palin for a few days, even John McCain >.>

310 danarchy  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:13:16pm

re: #285 Varek Raith

Do they fire lasers?

Speaking of lasers. Pew pew!

311 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:13:41pm

re: #307 freetoken

That’s cool, I didn’t know that.

This statue in Piccadilly Circus was cast in Aluminum way back in 1893.

312 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:14:32pm

re: #296 freetoken

Niobium

Interesting post and some great thoughts, but this made me go “laser crystals!!!!” :) Ah, well. I agree copper is beautiful and I also love both bronze and brass. Especially bronze. Someday I’d like to cast a leaf blade celtic style short sword in the appropriate alloy.

313 Gus  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:14:57pm

“People cited violation of the First Amendment when a New Jersey schoolteacher asserted that evolution and the Big Bang are not scientific and that Noah’s ark carried dinosaurs. This case is not about the need to separate church and state; it’s about the need to separate ignorant, scientifically illiterate people from the ranks of teachers.’
— Neil deGrasse Tyson, New York, Dec. 19, 2006. “Letter to the Editor” New York Times published December 21, 2006 in the Read section”

314 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:15:20pm

re: #299 Dark_Falcon

But Hitler had taken the measure of France and correctly figured that France hadn’t the moral strength to mount an immediate offensive. France in 1939 was traumatized and defensive minded.

Oh, I agree. Just my musings is all.

315 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:16:06pm

re: #305 ProBosniaLiberal

Even if Poland only lasted a few more weeks, it would have bloodied the Nazis that much more. And, if I remember correctly, the Poles had some sort of Fallback plan to Romania?

Romania was kind of playing a double game in 1939. They knew Germany was going to conquer Poland, but Poland had been Romania’s major supplier of combat aircraft, and Poland also supplied Romania with a significant amounts of coal as well. So Romania allowed Polish troops to retreat across its border. Once there it took their heavy equipment (armored cars, artillery, etc) but allowed the personnel to travel on to France (via ships from the Black Sea). This also netted Romania a number of additional Polish aircraft, which they used against the USSR two years later.

316 Shvaughn  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:16:09pm

Yeah, I did a lot of backtracking and found the actual list here:

National Organizations With Anti-Gun Policies

Posted on September 17, 2012

I recommend changing the original post to reflect this; the Conservative Daily News site falsely claims:

After the Journal News published the names and addresses of more than 33,000 legal handgun permit holders, making families, homes and neighborhoods vulnerable to theft and assault, the National Rifle Association decided to hit back. If the intent of the newspaper was to shame those with gun permits living in their community, the NRA has upped the game by publishing the names of gun control advocates all over the country.

317 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:16:36pm

re: #304 FemNaziBitch

So the NRA doesn’t entitle it as an “Enemies” List?

It’s a list of those with policies the NRA feels are counter to it’s agenda.

Lot’s of organizations do that.

Wayne Lapierre says he wouldn’t call it an “enemies list” but he thinks his members might find it convenient to know who they should boycott.

From Fox News:

JOHN GIBSON, HOST: Shameless attempt to get Austin Powers into the show. Actor Mike Meyers, along with hundreds of celebrities and organizations are finding out that he and they are not loved by the NRA.

The National Rifle Association (search) is putting together a lengthy list of enemies to the Second Amendment.

Wayne Lapierre (search) is executive vice president and CEO of the NRA. The big question at this hour, Wayne: are you shooting yourself in the foot with an enemy’s list? Even [Richard] Nixon figured out that’s a bad idea.

WAYNE LAPIERRE, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: Hi, John. No, I wouldn’t call it an enemy’s list. Look, our members want to know who in the celebrity community is opposed to the Second Amendment and opposed to the constitutional freedom of Americans to hold fire arms.

It kind of puts a permanent stain on the way our members feel about them. They don’t want to buy their movies. They don’t want to buy their songs. They don’t want to support their careers. And they cherish freedom that much and they’re willing to stand up for it. I think it is a good thing.

318 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:17:17pm

re: #271 dragonath

Rick Perry. Elected by… uh… the common clay of the new West…

319 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:18:41pm

re: #262 FemNaziBitch

So, the kid just watched the Anderson Cooper video and feels very stupid.

Ah, learning experiences.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that video.

Sigh… Sandy Hook has the most brazen conspiracy theorists in American history, probably because most of them have been believing similar lies about Obama killing Mexicans and a police officer for the same reason. Crap that’s been so fucking oversold that it’s even been supported by Congressmen on the floor of the House.

The actual reason for all this is to turn “oh my God they elected a n*****!” into cold hard gun sales cash - and also because a bunch of crooked gun sellers wanted an excuse for being caught in crooked straw sales to Mexican mafia.

320 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:18:43pm

re: #294 Dark_Falcon

They’d have lasted a couple weeks longer, maybe a month. But Poland would still have lost, given the power disparity. Polish infantry battalions were equal to their German counterparts, but German regiments had more artillery and once you got to the division level the gap grew wide. German divisions had far more trucks than Polish ones, more 37mm anti-tank guns, more AA guns, and more artillery (both guns and mortars). German also had more tanks and more aircraft.

None of this would have happened if only the Jews in the German ghettos had had Bushmasters. I heard it from the NRA, so it must be true.

321 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:19:10pm

(That Fox story is from 2003; the NRA has been doing this a while).

322 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:19:42pm

re: #320 Achilles Tang

None of this would have happened if only the Jews in the German ghettos had had Bushmasters. I heard it from the NRA, so it must be true.

Of course, it wasn’t until 1944 that the Bushmaster’s forerunner even existed.

323 Shvaughn  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:20:14pm

re: #321 jaunte

(That Fox story is from 2003; the NRA has been doing this a while).

That would explain the Austin Powers reference. Why didn’t you link to the source of the 2003 story?

324 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:21:02pm

re: #323 Shvaughn

That would explain the Austin Powers reference. Why didn’t you link to the source of the 2003 story?

Groovy baby, yeah!

325 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:21:12pm

re: #323 Shvaughn

I didn’t feel like giving them any hits.

326 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:23:07pm

re: #306 makeitstop

But few organizations actually treat their opponents like ‘enemies.’ NRA does.

Scientology??

327 makeitstop  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:24:02pm

re: #326 Achilles Tang

Scientology??

True, true.

328 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:24:44pm

re: #326 Achilles Tang

Scientology??

They make the NRA look like Little Mary Sunshine when it comes to how they treat ‘enemies’.

/Not kidding, not at all.

329 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:25:50pm

re: #322 Dark_Falcon

I updinged you for the concept, but the early work started at Walther, Erma & Mauser in about 40 ~ 41. It’s rather dependent on how, exactly, the intermediate chambering, selective fire, military carbine is defined as well.

330 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:27:49pm

re: #325 jaunte

I didn’t feel like giving them any hits.

But here’s a picture:
Image: gibson-lapieere-interview.jpg

331 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:28:47pm

FemNaziBitch

Another sad teaching point is this.
On the youtube version of the Anderson Cooper video I’m watching, MOST of the comments are conspiracists at least as far down as I’ve bothered looking. The highest rated comments are conspiracists!

Jesus fucking hairy christ on a stick!

332 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:30:41pm

IIRC France had an incredibly defeatist Foreign Office at the start of the war. A not insignificant number of them ended up siding with the Vichy regime.

333 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:31:05pm

re: #331 stabby

FemNaziBitch

Another sad teaching point is this.
On the youtube version of the Anderson Cooper video I’m watching, MOST of the comments are conspiracists at least as far down as I’ve bothered looking. The highest rated comments are conspiracists!

Jesus fucking hairy christ on a stick!

[Embedded content]

I know, but I can only expect his brain to absorb so much at one time. He says he is going to show the Anderson Cooper video to the guys at work.

LOL

334 alpuz  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:33:21pm

Eh. Here in Wisconsin, after the concealed carry law was passed the local NRA put out a list of businesses to boycott. Apparently local bar owners and hospitals didn’t want people packin’ in their establishments.

Anywho, on the list were all the major clinics and hospitals in at least a 70 mile radius of my hometown.

So, If one of the NRA loving, 2nd amendment rights folks shot themselves in the foot, I guess only they, with their bootstraps would be able to sew them up.

335 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:36:25pm

re: #332 dragonath

IIRC France had an incredibly defeatist Foreign Office at the start of the war. A not insignificant number of them ended up siding with the Vichy regime.

You recall correctly. The Quaid D’Orsay was seriously ambivalent about the need to fight for freedom. And in that they were echoed by too much of France.

Capt. Renault’s attitude in Casablanca in large part reflects historical reality, including to some degree the fact that learning how evil the Nazi regime really was made a good number of Frenchmen realize that they had to fight it if they wanted the things that they loved to survive.

336 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:36:28pm

re: #334 alpuz

Eh. Here in Wisconsin, after the concealed carry law was passed the local NRA put out a list of businesses to boycott. Apparently local bar owners and hospitals didn’t want people packin’ in their establishments.

Anywho, on the list were all the major clinics and hospitals in at least a 70 mile radius of my hometown.

So, If one of the NRA loving, 2nd amendment rights folks shot themselves in the foot, I guess only they, with their bootstraps would be able to sew them up.

Just thinking, if the NRA is really concerned about crime and doesn’t think that lists of gun owners should be published, why would you publish a list of places and companies that are in favor of gun-control.

One might think those establishments are gun-free zones and therefore an easy target for criminals.

337 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:39:02pm

re: #296 freetoken

I think metal work is neat.

Silver - easy to work with and very useful, but I just am not attracted to the color, and have never worn silver (metal) anything.

I too love the old photography, and have a small library of books on the technical matters. Yet that is all OBE now, a vanishing art.

Of the elements, namely the metals, there are many that can make interesting art and jewelry. However, some of them have such high melting points (e.g. Niobium) that the average metal worker can’t practically cast them, or make alloys.

Th Platinum group metals, other than palladium, have pretty high melting points also. Ruthenium isn’t too expensive but is hard to find, but its melting point is out of reach for most hobbyists/artists too.

I prefer the color of copper, but alas we all know that it loves sulfur and oxygen like crazy and the element color doesn’t last long. Besides copper, the only other two metals with warm color are gold and iridium, and both are horribly expensive (and iridium supposedly difficult to work with - I’d like to try some day.)

How expensive is it to work with copper-gold alloys and such to get reddish colors?

(I also posted some pictures of some old rings of my grandfather’s a week or so ago. Don’t know if you saw them. 14K Rose gold, turquoise set in silver, and a white gold wedding band.)

338 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:39:41pm

I like to remind people that “gun free zone” means no guns allowed ON A PERSONAL LICENSE, it doesn’t mean “no armed guards”, it doesn’t mean “no police”, it doesn’t mean “no secret service”, it doesn’t mean “no marines” etc etc etc.

A “gun free zone” is, in practice, no easier to attack than any other place, and if you do attack one, you’ll face additional penalties.

339 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:42:56pm

re: #335 Dark_Falcon

You recall correctly. The Quaid D’Orsay was seriously ambivalent about the need to fight for freedom. And in that they were echoed by too much of France.

Capt. Renault’s attitude in Casablanca in large part reflects historical reality, including to some degree the fact that learning how evil the Nazi regime really was made a good number of Frenchmen realize that they had to fight it if they wanted the things that they loved to survive.

It didn’t help that the Nazis were utilizing defeatists in the French ranks to disseminate propaganda as to the strength and fitness of the German military, in an effort to boost the feelings of hopelessness in the face of an imminent war.

340 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:43:08pm

re: #335 Dark_Falcon

You recall correctly. The Quaid D’Orsay was seriously ambivalent about the need to fight for freedom. And in that they were echoed by too much of France.

Capt. Renault’s attitude in Casablanca in large part reflects historical reality, including to some degree the fact that learning how evil the Nazi regime really was made a good number of Frenchmen realize that they had to fight it if they wanted the things that they loved to survive.

I always thought it was kind of sick how that the French let half their fleet get blown up by the British in Mers-el-Kebir, given the circumstances, but blew up the rest of their ships in Toulon a couple of years later.

341 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:44:38pm

Stephen Colbert sympathizing with Erick Erickson’s climate change defeatism.

“Might as well crawl in bed with a cheesecake and wait.”

342 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:44:58pm

re: #339 Targetpractice

It didn’t help matters that France was already eaten hollow by the far right during the 30’s. There were members of the French military, most notably Petain, who were fascist sympathizers.

343 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:44:59pm

re: #340 dragonath

I always thought it was kind of sick how that the French let half their fleet get blown up by the British in Mers-el-Kebir, given the circumstances, but blew up the rest of their ships in Toulon a couple of years later.

A lot plays into decisions of that sort. Pride, denial, ego, and emotions can set up a very weird mindset.

344 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:47:34pm

re: #340 dragonath

I always thought it was kind of sick how that the French let half their fleet get blown up by the British in Mers-el-Kebir, given the circumstances, but blew up the rest of their ships in Toulon a couple of years later.

It was better than the alternative: Imagine if Germany had been able to seize the French fleet. They couldn’t have used most of it, but even a few ships could have wrecked an Atlantic convoy and the Dunkerque-class BCs were just the sort of ships good for raiding. Not surprising, since they were built to catch German ‘pocket battleships’.

345 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:48:00pm

re: #342 ProBosniaLiberal

It didn’t help matters that France was already eaten hollow by the far right during the 30’s. There were members of the French military, most notably Petain, who were fascist sympathizers.

Reading an alternative history, or rather speculative history, book dealing with scenarios involving major turning points of WWII, starting in ‘38 with the lead-up to Munich. Folks never realize just how possible it was, in the years leading up to the war, that Hitler might have been deposed or even assassinated and the whole thing avoided.

346 blueraven  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:48:38pm

re: #341 jaunte

Stephen Colbert sympathizing with Erick Erickson’s climate change defeatism.

He described him as “inertial lump, Eric Erickson”
still laughing here.

347 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:49:17pm

re: #337 Feline Fearless Leader

How expensive is it to work with copper-gold alloys and such to get reddish colors?

(I also posted some pictures of some old rings of my grandfather’s a week or so ago. Don’t know if you saw them. 14K Rose gold, turquoise set in silver, and a white gold wedding band.)

Low karat gold alloys are used in jewelry, but at $1800/troz even 10k gold (which is 10/24 pure), while pretty, is still expensive. As the percentage of gold goes down, and copper goes up, the copper starts to dominate and tarnishing becomes visible. Still, these low gold alloys make for some pretty pieces. I don’t know of off the shelf alloys below 10k, but one can make some by melting in a pot and mixing with copper.

Gold alloyed with silver (which in roughly equal mix makes for the old Roman “electrum” - pretty stuff) loses it’s warm color, even if it withstands tarnishing better.

This spring I’m hoping to get some time to try working with a non traditional copper alloy, to make a piece (either ring or bangle). I’m not too skilled at this stuff, but it’s fun anyway.

348 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:49:24pm

re: #340 dragonath

I always thought it was kind of sick how that the French let half their fleet get blown up by the British in Mers-el-Kebir, given the circumstances, but blew up the rest of their ships in Toulon a couple of years later.

It still pisses off a lot of the French, but the English were right to sink anything that didn’t make an attempt to leave France. Frankly (if you’ll pardon the expression :) the French Navy was too damn good to let the Nazi’s have it for free.

349 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:51:32pm

Have a good evening all!

350 readyfreddy815  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:51:41pm

What’s with the preponderance of St. Louis-based enemies? Mizzurah is a red state. Even the blue “coasts” are pretty red.

351 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:51:43pm

re: #345 Targetpractice

My interesting thoughts go to two events:

What if Abdulhamid II had not deposed Murad V in the 1870’s.

And what if the British had not been idiots at the beginning of WWI versus the Ottoman Empire.

Either one of those events might have saved the Ottoman Empire, (though the first option would have been preferable.)

If the Ottoman Empire had survived WWI, the world would have been a better place. They had fought the people we fight against now. And I think it is likely 9/11 never would have happened.

352 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:51:55pm

re: #349 FemNaziBitch

Have a good evening all!

Sleep well, friend.

353 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:52:46pm

re: #351 ProBosniaLiberal

My interesting thoughts go to two events:

What if Abdulhamid II had not deposed Murad V in the 1870’s.

And what if the British had not been idiots at the beginning of WWI versus the Ottoman Empire.

Either one of those events might have saved the Ottoman Empire, (though the first option would have been preferable.)

If the Ottoman Empire had survived WWI, the world would have been a better place. They had fought the people we fight against now. And I think it is likely 9/11 never would have happened.

How were the British being idiots? Should they have let the Turks take possession of two battleships?

354 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:53:19pm

And the GOP wonders why they keep losing minority votes:

Limbaugh: It’s Up To Me And Fox News To Stop Amnesty

Conservative talk radio personality Rush Limbaugh said on his show Monday that it was up to himself and the Fox News network to stop a bipartisan effort to pass immigration reform which would create a path to citizenship for the 11 million undocumented immigrants living in the United States.

“It’s up to me and Fox News,” Limbaugh said, “and I don’t think Fox News is that invested in this.”

He continued: “I don’t think there’s any Republican opposition to this of any majority consequence or size. We’ll have to wait and see and find out. But this is one of those, just keep plugging away, plugging away, plugging away until you finally beat down the opposition.”

355 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:54:16pm

re: #351 ProBosniaLiberal

Granted, the Ottoman Empire would have had to being a Federal Constitutional Caliphate, but that would be so far off from the Constitutional Monarchy in the UK or Spain today.

Just larger. Way larger.

356 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:54:17pm

re: #344 Dark_Falcon

Now- imagine if the Germans has a navy even the fraction of the size of the one they had in WWI.

357 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:56:35pm

re: #354 Lidane

And the GOP wonders why they keep losing minority votes:

Limbaugh: It’s Up To Me And Fox News To Stop Amnesty

Go McCain!: Bomb the FAILboat that is Rush Limbaugh into Davy Jones’ Locker!

358 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:56:54pm

re: #354 Lidane

And the GOP wonders why they keep losing minority votes:

Limbaugh: It’s Up To Me And Fox News To Stop Amnesty

Rush the Hutt, the ultimate dead-ender.

359 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:59:11pm

re: #358 Targetpractice

If John McCain would go after Rush Limbaugh and Fox with the tenacity he went after Susan Rice, I’d regain my respect for the old coot.

360 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:59:17pm

re: #351 ProBosniaLiberal

Meh. I understand your basic argument but the reality remains that those ships in English hands did more real world good than they would have in the hands of a German ally. The Ottoman’s were never going to be a positive influence for the west. The “Students” of Afghanistan will be helping us first, I believe… Ataturk was the best thing that has happened to Turkey before or since, alas…

361 blueraven  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:59:18pm

re: #350 readyfreddy815

What’s with the preponderance of St. Louis-based enemies? Mizzurah is a red state. Even the blue “coasts” are pretty red.

Welcome hatchling!

362 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 8:59:47pm

re: #348 William Barnett-Lewis

It still pisses off a lot of the French, but the English were right to sink anything that didn’t make an attempt to leave France. Frankly (if you’ll pardon the expression :) the French Navy was too damn good to let the Nazi’s have it for free.

The British were going to do it. They simply were not going to allow the odds to get any worse regarding the Axis navies. Control of the English Channel has always been one of their highest priorities. And things got tight enough in the Med with just the Italians (primarily) to deal with, especially once the Germans started some air support and U-boats as well.

363 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:00:15pm

re: #358 Targetpractice

Rush the Hutt, the ultimate dead-ender.

That’s quite unfair to Hutts, you know. A Hutt would realize how bad their position ultimately was and make a deal.

/Stay on Target!

364 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:01:32pm

re: #316 Shvaughn

Yeah, I did a lot of backtracking and found the actual list here:

National Organizations With Anti-Gun Policies

I recommend changing the original post to reflect this; the Conservative Daily News site falsely claims:

I agree, especially on the “Conservative Daily News” link.

re: #336 FemNaziBitch

Just thinking, if the NRA is really concerned about crime and doesn’t think that lists of gun owners should be published, why would you publish a list of places and companies that are in favor of gun-control.

One might think those establishments are gun-free zones and therefore an easy target for criminals.

But then there’s this. I’m conflicted about the whole “enemies” thing, considering how dangerously disingenuous he NRA has become. If they were serious about a gun discussion, they’d wouldn’t be giving cover to hecklers and militia freaks. Their game is reliant on the timidity of liberals.

365 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:02:07pm

re: #360 William Barnett-Lewis

Meh. I understand your basic argument but the reality remains that those ships in English hands did more real world good than they would have in the hands of a German ally. The Ottoman’s were never going to be a positive influence for the west. The “Students” of Afghanistan will be helping us first, I believe… Ataturk was the best thing that has happened to Turkey before or since, alas…

Moreover, imagine what would have happened had the Turks sailed the two ships to Germany. An enlarged High Seas Fleet at the expense of a reduced Grand Fleet was something Great Britain could not risk.

366 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:05:07pm

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

Yes, they should have. They should have made an effort to keep the Ottomans neutral. And considering the losses that it took to big down the “Sick Man of Europe,” it would have been worth it. How many British Troops could have been spared if they weren’t fighting the Ottomans?

The fall of the Ottoman Empire has left us with the wreck of a region we have today. Even an Ottoman Empire that would have held just what they had in 1914 would have resulted in a major rebound for the Empire. Hell, go back to “What if Murad V had held on” and you are likely talking of an Ottoman Empire still present in the Balkans.

Abdulhamid II hijacked the Tanzimat reforms and created the first modern-style dictatorship. And his demagoguery led to the brutality in the Balkans that led to the withdrawal from the Balkans. Albana paid a heavy price for this, the the Serbians tearing away Kosovo and Presevo Valley, and Greece took Northern Epirus. Serbia also took portions of Albania now in Macedonia, but Macedonia treats their Albanians well. Contrast this to Kosovo and the Presevo Valley. Personally, I think both territories should become part of Albania once again.

367 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:06:28pm

re: #351 ProBosniaLiberal

Turkey’s Toy Boat

Kind of old, sorta flippant, but it’s entertaining:

A sample:

Behind these maneuverings was our good friend Winston Churchill. While Germany had to negotiate for the use of the Sultan Osman, Churchill realized the coveted boat was in his very backyard. Another day’s discussions ensued, and on July 30th, the Foreign Office opined that “we must let the Admiralty deal with this question as they consider necessary and afterwards make such defence of our action to Turkey as we can”[12] The European situation darkened that afternoon when Russia, Turkey’s most likely enemy, mobilized her armies. Bright and early the next morning (July 31st), Churchill secretly told Armstrong Whitworth not to hand over the ship. He added “there was no reason why the money due [£800,000] should not be accepted.” The fact that Churchill was going to steal the battleship didn’t mean he would balk at accepting the Turks’ final payment!. At 2:30 pm, dinner time in Turkey, word came that the money had been deposited in a British bank. Minutes later, British sailors boarded the ship and shooed the Turkish nationals off. No one in Turkey was told.

Back in Turkey, von Wangenheim was still negotiating with the Turks: it was becoming clear this war would not be contained to the Balkans. Everyone was invited to the party. On midnight of July 31st, the Turkish could see the wolves circling with nary a friend in sight. By the next day they wouldn’t even have the Osman.

368 jaunte  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:09:37pm

Sen. Ron Johnson: We’re Living in Atlas Shrugged

“…we really have developed this culture of entitlement dependency that is not what America’s all about. I mean, America— and that’s, of course, what Atlas Shrugged is about— is individuals aspiring to build things. To make their life, and as a result the world, a better place. And when we shift to a culture where people are just saying I’m happy to sit back and let the government provide me with things, that becomes a very dangerous point in time for this country.

What do you see as the differences between your ideas and the ideas of Ayn Rand?

I’m not sure there are too many differences. I guess when you take a look at the book Atlas Shrugged, I think most people always like to identify with the main character— that would be John Galt. I guess I identify with Hank Rearden, the fella that just refused until the very end to give up. And I guess I’d like to think of myself more as a Hank Rearden— I’m not going to give up. “

Transcript from The Discovery of Strawmannium

369 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:10:10pm

Just to share with my friends here first…

I’m finishing up a short thriller called PreView. We just finished the approved trailer and put it in my YT channel. Inspired by the Twilight Zone, a story about an arrogant man that buys a camera with highly unexpected features. After the film festivals submissions process I’ll put the whole thing up.

Anyway here is the very first look at it anywhere.

370 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:10:39pm

Speaking of enemies lists… I’m digging into my genealogy, doing work on one side which needs a lot of work (lots of confusing data by distant relatives). Getting the provenance on this stuff is difficult but I think important.

According to internet sources, the biggest genealogy in the world is supposed to be that of Confucius, and there are organizations dedicated to his family tree all around the world.

There are some who want to claim the genealogies in the Bible as their own… but frankly the provenance is just not there. People want to believe all sorts of things, but they are just not true.

Speaking of which, some of my relatives working on my Norwegian side have traced our tree back to a guy born around 1200, called Ogma[u]nd the Crusador (yes, those Crusades.) I haven’t checked the provenance myself, but I do know that the Norwegians have been re-recording and digitizing any scrap of genealogical data they can find (and they even have some of the archives translated to English, online), and supposedly these have been checked.

Assuming this research is true, Ogmund of (at) Spondheim has indeed many descendants and I am but one of countless thousands (hundreds of thousands no doubt.) Supposedly he was one of the crusader Kings of Norway, and he tends to show up in many people’s ancestry in part because he no doubt had quite the pick of women. I suspect he left descendants all over Europe, and Turkey, and even Palestine.

We are all one big happy family.

371 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:11:19pm

re: #368 jaunte

Sen. Ron Johnson: We’re Living in Atlas Shrugged

Transcript from The Discovery of Strawmannium

It’s always cute when they think that the business tycoon whose great contribution to society is paying others to discover new alloys is the “hero” of the story.

372 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:11:24pm

re: #365 Dark_Falcon

And considering where we are now, I think having the Ottoman Empire disintegrate was a very, very bad thing.

re: #367 dragonath

The only reason Churchill is remembered as a good man is because he opposed Hitler.

Again, because the Ottomans collapsed, the Sauds came to power. They eventually got back to their old tricks of promoting radicalism. Because of that, 9/11 occurred.

Britain should have made an effort to keep the Ottomans neutral in the War. Or, hell, promise them back something in return. Libya, perhaps? Italy was at first on the German side after all.

373 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:12:10pm

re: #367 dragonath

Turkey’s Toy Boat

Kind of old, sorta flippant, but it’s entertaining:

A sample:

Renamed HMS Agincourt, the ship would have her day at Jutland. Her gunnery officer was determined to prove the ship could fire full broadsides, and proved that she could by firing at least 3 of them.

374 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:14:05pm

Circular firing squad, part ZOMG IMMIGRANTS:

375 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:15:26pm

re: #374 Lidane

Circular firing squad, part ZOMG IMMIGRANTS:

Rubio trying to ensure his chances in ‘16, might instead destroy his career before it’s really taken off.

Oh, the irony.

376 Lidane  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:16:51pm

re: #368 jaunte

Sen. Ron Johnson: We’re Living in Atlas Shrugged

Officer Barbrady said it best:

377 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:16:55pm

re: #372 ProBosniaLiberal

I realize you have a problem with the House of Saud. Most real humans do. However, the Ottoman’s were disintegrating for centuries by the time of WWI. Even if Britain had done everything you suggest, there is no reason to believe that the Ottoman’s would not have collapsed anyway.

And, honestly, the reality of history gives us one of the truly great cavalry charges in history when the Australian Light Horse charged the guns at Bathsheba - as an old Trooper I hope you’ll understand the conceit.

378 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:17:08pm

re: #366 ProBosniaLiberal

Yes, they should have. They should have made an effort to keep the Ottomans neutral. And considering the losses that it took to big down the “Sick Man of Europe,” it would have been worth it. How many British Troops could have been spared if they weren’t fighting the Ottomans?

The fall of the Ottoman Empire has left us with the wreck of a region we have today. Even an Ottoman Empire that would have held just what they had in 1914 would have resulted in a major rebound for the Empire. Hell, go back to “What if Murad V had held on” and you are likely talking of an Ottoman Empire still present in the Balkans.

The British were right to seize those two BBs, IMO. Simply put, they were not able to worry about what Turkey entering the war would do in the Balkans too much; the maintenance of the superiority of the Royal navy in home waters was of paramount importance. Even though Adm (retired) Charles Bereford and Adm (retired but soon to be reactivated) John ‘Jacky’ Fisher hated each other, on that matter even they were in absolute agreement. To have risked Germany’s High Seas Fleet being reinforced was utterly unacceptable to the UK.

379 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:17:20pm

re: #370 freetoken

Family tree looks like that too. Also with the Viking thing, through multiple lines.

380 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:18:08pm

re: #374 Lidane

Circular firing squad, part ZOMG IMMIGRANTS:

Please proceed …

381 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:22:21pm

Churchill was the consummate imperialist, but he cuts a fair figure next to Lloyd George. The British were too clever after the war- they played all sorts of territorial games with the Arabs, tried to get the French on the front lines of another war, and pretty much exhausted the Empire soon after the war.

The Brits had to debase their silver currency from sterling to .500 in 1918.

382 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:24:42pm

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

Again, if you keep the Ottomans neutral, there would have been no need to worry.

Also, I should point out there would have be a decent chance that, had the Ottomans not fallen, they would have come back from the brink.

Look at the map of the Ottoman Empire circa 1914.

Notice anything, even with that rump territory.

And in regards to my Kosovo and Presevo Valley comment, Serbia gained those through a genocide that wiped out no less than 16% of all Albanians on the planet, and deported an additional quarter million Albanians. They probably had the goal of annihilating the Albanians.

The time has come to recognize this, and force Serbia to recognize Kosovo’s Independence, the concession of the Presevo Valley, and negotiations for those two territories to join Albania.

Use Biden and Albright for this.

383 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:25:23pm

re: #377 William Barnett-Lewis

I realize you have a problem with the House of Saud. Most real humans do. However, the Ottoman’s were disintegrating for centuries by the time of WWI. Even if Britain had done everything you suggest, there is no reason to believe that the Ottoman’s would not have collapsed anyway.

And, honestly, the reality of history gives us one of the truly great cavalry charges in history when the Australian Light Horse charged the guns at Bathsheba - as an old Trooper I hope you’ll understand the conceit.

I appreciate that, although I must point out that before there was Beersheba there were two bloody battles at Gaza were British and Imperial soldiers were sent forward only to be bled white on the Turkish/German defense (in the second battle they bled for no real gain at all).

But on the third hand, as the cavalry were charging at Beersheba, Mark IV tanks were breaking through at Gaza. And soon afterwards Beersheba there was also fought the battle of Cambrai in France. Together, the battles heralded the chance of finally breaking the stalemate of the trenches.

Though none knew it at the time, the Great War had entered its final year.

384 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:26:02pm

Besides- if the Ottomans had survived- there was still Russia. I don’t think either Imperial or Soviet Russia would have cared much for the Ottomans.

385 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:27:07pm

re: #382 ProBosniaLiberal

The British felt they couldn’t run the risk of diplomacy failing and I hope you can at least acknowledge that they had a valid concern.

386 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:33:34pm

re: #383 Dark_Falcon

Autocorrect sucks even worse than usual on historical bits… ;)

387 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:34:27pm

By the end of the war, the Ottomans and the Germans were at total cross purposes in Central Asia. But the war in the East might have ended in 1914 had the British not blinked right in front of Constantinople.

388 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:39:03pm

re: #387 dragonath

Istanbul.

Considering the reasons why the Rashidun Capliphate ended up yanking so much of the Byzantine territory away (namely, persecution of those who were not Trinitarian Christian), I refuse to call it Constantinople.

It’s either Byzantium or Istanbul to me. Also, the Greek Government was there for the genocides of the 90’s. My little way to get back at them.

389 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:41:58pm

re: #387 dragonath

By the end of the war, the Ottomans and the Germans were at total cross purposes in Central Asia. But the war in the East might have ended in 1914 had the British not blinked right in front of Constantinople.

After losing 2 battleships (and one BB from France) to mines in the Hellspont, you can understand their hesitation. But Keyes was ultimately right that the passage should have been forced anyways: The Turkish forts were low on ammo and their gun crews were demoralized. Had the Royal navy pressed its attack home, it might well have forced Turkey to surrender.

390 austin_blue  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:43:14pm

Night all. Sweet dreams of an end to Washington gridlock.

(one can hope)

391 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:44:53pm

re: #379 ProBosniaLiberal

There’s lots of pedigree collapse going on before 1600.


Here is supposedly one of my direct ancestors:
Inge II of Norway

He had no legitimate heir. However, as the article points out he did have an “illegitimate” son, “Guttorm (b. 1206) by a concubine called Gyrid”, from whom I am descended.

Back then, most any man had children by a cousin of his. There is considerable collapse of the pedigree.

King Inge II’s ancestry is well researched, and most anyone in Norway is descended from one of the royal houses of old.

Which means I’m also descended of the old Kings of Wessex (who fathered a line of Kings in Norway), who are descended (and here is where history turns into myth) the ancient Kings of various tribes of Celts.

Being a direct descendant of the old Kings, and of the Vikings who sent out found Newfoundland, when I read the racists go on about that late comer Virginia Dare, I consider them squatters on my continent.

392 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:45:05pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

Maybe a quick surrender would have been better.

You know how much I despise the Sauds. I have said on here, more than once, my willingness to throw Palestine under the bus and reintegrate the West Bank with a now more sane Jordan in order to give the Hashemite King Jordan a religious stature against the Sauds.

393 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:46:10pm

re: #388 ProBosniaLiberal

I don’t understand why you base personal grudges on bad things that happened in the past. It is no more your history than mine. Or anyone’s.

394 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:46:27pm

re: #391 freetoken

My Grandpa’s health started declining before he got that far back on his side.

Hell, if I could have your help on the genealogy, that would be great.

395 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:47:51pm

re: #388 ProBosniaLiberal

396 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:48:48pm

re: #393 dragonath

The larger part is because of Greece’s support of Serbia during the Bosnian War.

By refusing to call Constantinople by that name I get to deny the satisfaction of the Greeks once having been rulers of that city.

397 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:49:01pm

re: #395 William Barnett-Lewis

Exactly.

398 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:50:52pm

Good night all, till the morrow brings us once more into the breech.

399 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:51:22pm

re: #396 ProBosniaLiberal

Well, in that case, you have to go all the way back to 657BC.

400 palomino  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:51:31pm

Well, to counter all those elite Hollywood enemies, at least the NRA has one entertainment industry friend in David Mamet, who lets the obvious escape him in this bizarre anti-any gun control piece from Daily Beast Newsweek (or whatever the hell it’s called now.)

Q. How many accidental shootings occurred last year in jewelry stores, or on any premises with armed security guards? Why not then, for the love of God, have an armed presence in the schools? It could be done at the cost of a pistol (several hundred dollars), and a few hours of training (that’s all the security guards get). Why not offer teachers, administrators, custodians, a small extra stipend for completing a firearms-safety course and carrying a concealed weapon to school? The arguments to the contrary escape me.

A single “firearms safety course” is sufficient to give civilian employees weapons in schools? Right, absolutely nothing could go wrong in crowded places with thousands of students who routinely get in scuffles with one another and sometimes the adults (who would now be carrying guns).

Mamet sees gun control laws as examples of Marxism. But he completely dismisses several important things to arrive at such hyperbole: (1) the gun ban would only extend to ARs, high capacity mags, and, I believe, armor piercing bullets (why the hell are those legal in the first place?) (2) we had a similar gun ban in the 90s, not exactly a period where individual liberties disappeared and Marxism took over; (3) most mass shootings don’t even take place in schools, but the AR15 is clearly the weapon of choice for a killer who wants to maximize his efficiency (i.e., kill as many people as quickly as possible).

401 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:55:23pm

re: #396 ProBosniaLiberal

The larger part is because of Greece’s support of Serbia during the Bosnian War.

By refusing to call Constantinople by that name I get to deny the satisfaction of the Greeks once having been rulers of that city.

Although, Greece had been Allied with Serbia in WW1, only to have that alliance thrown in their faces when Yugoslavia provided aid to the Communists during the Greek Civil War in the late 1940’s.

402 Shvaughn  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:55:32pm

re: #388 ProLifeLiberal

It’s either Byzantium or Istanbul to me. Also, the Greek Government was there for the genocides of the 90’s. My little way to get back at them.

You really need to do something about your bizarre group blame bullshit.

403 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:56:14pm

re: #399 dragonath

Ancient Greece and today’s Greece are much different.

It just goes from Byzantium to Istanbul.

404 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:57:28pm

re: #394 ProBosniaLiberal

Hell, if I could have your help on the genealogy, that would be great.

Well, it all turns into legend at some point.

The old (Christian) Kings of Wessex claimed descent from their Druid ancestors. Some researchers have claimed that the earliest of these Kings claimed descent from …. Joseph of Arimathea.

Yes, that Joseph of Arimathea.

I consider it all bunk. The early Christian kings tried to legitimize themselves in the eyes of their subjects, and to make themselves look important pulled characters out of the Bible (which the Irish monks had just introduced to Briton.)

I take it on the word of my relatives that they have done the provenance all the way back to the Kings of Norway (and there were many because in those days 900- 1200, every little corner of Norway seemed to have a King), and the Kings’ ancestry to some of the pre-Norman Britons is probably pretty good, but going back too far before Alfred the Great and things get very, very murky.

405 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 9:57:51pm

re: #402 Shvaughn

Not blaming them.

Just saying I’ll never refer to Istanbul as the name after that of Byzantium.

406 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:00:00pm

re: #404 freetoken

True. but I would like to know more.

407 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:05:25pm

re: #406 ProBosniaLiberal

True. but I would like to know more.

Of your own ancestry?

Most of it can be researched with modern tools in a way never before possible.

Record keeping outside of royalty, or in the Christian world the local parish books, is scant. In the US things are pretty good back to the 1790 census. Colonial times are ok, especially if your ancestors are from New England.

Northern Europeans kept pretty good records from the Protestant revolution times. Before that things get real iffy outside of royalty or landed gentry, unless again your ancestor was connected to the Church.

In the East some regions of China kept records of some note, and some families in Japan can go back a 1000 years. Korea possibly too but it has been invaded so many times I don’t know what could have survived.

If you have ancestors in the rich families of Italian states you could probably find something.

Native Americans, most of Africa, and SE Asia - probably little survives. India I don’t know about, but there are royal lines and some old genealogies there.

A genetics test might help.

408 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:06:18pm

re: #407 freetoken

Sites?

409 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:07:38pm

re: #408 ProBosniaLiberal

Sites?

There are zillions.

Commercial sites Ancestry.com and 23andMe are useful.

There are many free sites - but the question is: how far back does your current knowledge go, and from which countries are these ancestors?

410 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:09:43pm

re: #409 freetoken

It varies. So places, 10+ Generations Back. Others, just 4.

Location wise?

From Pyrenees, Alps and Balkans north. My mom’s side got around.

411 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:10:54pm
412 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:15:22pm

re: #411 Kragar

I see the blind squirrel found a nut.

413 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:16:30pm

OK, this is some seriously low shit:

Father of Newtown victim heckled by gun advocates at legislative hearing

Neil Heslin, whose six-year-old son was murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School last month, was heckled by gun advocates during a legislative hearing on Monday.

“Changes have to be made,” he told Connecticut lawmakers in an emotional testimony. “I’ll tell you a little bit about Jesse. He was a boy that loved life, lived it to the fullest. His mother and I are separated. He spent equal time with both of us. He was my son, he my buddy, he was my best friend, and I never thought I would be here speaking like this, asking for changes on my son’s behalf.”

“And I never thought I would be laying him to rest. The happiest day of my life was the day he was born. He is my only son, my only family. The worst day of my life was the day when this happened.”

He said firearms like the popular AR-15/M16 rifle were designed to “put a lot of lead out on the battlefield quickly.” When Heslin asked why anyone should be allowed to own a semi-automatic rifle like the one used to kill 26 people in Newtown last month, angry gun advocates shouted, “the Second Amendment!”

“We’re all entitled to our own opinions and I respect their opinions and their thoughts,” Heslin said. “But I wish they’d respect mine and give it a little bit of thought.”

414 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:17:55pm

re: #410 ProBosniaLiberal

You’ll have to make it systematic study.

Start by drawing the ancestor tree. There is software to help, or online sites.

Census, birth, death, and marriage records should be available for those who have lived in the US.

Central and Eastern European records - I have no clue as to what could have survived all the wars. If you have ancestors from “the Alps” then the Swiss Canyons may have some information, but if your ancestors were from France, or Austria - I don’t know. German genealogists have some expertise. I’ve seen some recovered German genealogies from the 19th century and before, complete with pictures.

Balkans - good luck.

You need to draw a tree, and write down all you “know”, and then find records to either back up what you know or that will change what you thought you “know”. At each edge back on the tree you will find new challenges.

This is a life’s work. I’m benefitting from 40 years of relatives work on both my father and mother’s sides, by aunts and great uncles.

415 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:18:04pm

re: #407 freetoken

Actually, I think I might do the Genetics Test too.

A number of my Mother’s ancestors (About half of them are from the British Isles.) by last name seem to be either:

a) The Nordic-Scots
b) The loyal followers of William the Conquerer.

There were others (Smattering of Irish and Welsh), but it is predominately Scottish, and Scandinavian Colonizers of one flavor or another. Of course, the other half of it is an admixture of Northern Continental.

416 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:18:27pm

re: #414 freetoken

pimf “Swiss Cantons”

417 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:20:30pm

re: #414 freetoken

No, I mean as in South of those. The farthest south my family tree goes, though there could be a surprise, is France and Switzerland.

There is Slovakian or Czech, but that gets fuzzy in a hurry because of the borders.

I have been on every side of most European War going back to the Roman Empire days.

418 LWNJ  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:24:35pm

re: #396 ProBosniaLiberal

The larger part is because of Greece’s support of Serbia during the Bosnian War.

By refusing to call Constantinople by that name I get to deny the satisfaction of the Greeks once having been rulers of that city.

The Greeks named it Byzantium when they founded it, and for the centuries they lived in it. When Constantine (a Roman citizen, born in what is now Serbia) divided the empire and moved east, he renamed the city. When the Eastern Roman Empire was ruled by Constantine’s successors, it was a bulwark against Muslims invading Europe. Including what are now Saudis. Ironically, by that time, the Greeks were ethnically as Slavic as they were Greek, as they have been since — whoever the Greeks were initially.

419 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:24:55pm

Speaking of utter and complete scum…

Ex-Gay Therapist Blames Patients For Their Failure To ‘Pray Away The Gay’


Dr. Duk said he sees about three patients a year who he said need help fighting same-sex attractions. His treatment of such patients has not resulted in the desired outcomes, he said.

“I was not successful with the ones I had because they did not stay long enough,” he said. “The major factor is whether the patient really wants to heal. The ones who want to get better, those are the ones” able to change.

So according to Duk, even though his patients pay hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars and dedicate years of their lives to the treatment, they’re just not dedicated enough.

420 LWNJ  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:24:59pm

Night, Lizards.

421 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:27:42pm

re: #415 ProBosniaLiberal

Note that the British Isles have been quite the mixing ground ever since the days of the Heidelberg man, and that was a very long time ago.

“Celts” btw are just another variant of the Gauls, which is an umbrella term for the mix of central European tribes that stretched all the way to Turkey (the “Galatia” of the NT fame) from Scotland. Humans are highly mobile and there was a lot of mixing and movement.

The proto-Vikings in the north, the Germanic tribes and the larger Celtic groups all grew and mixed together to form what is today most of the Western and Northern Europeans. Isolated pockets of people from older times (pre Roman) exist, mostly in Iberia and the rest of the Mediterranean. The arctic circle peoples are from a different branch of humanity with ancestry common to NE Asians and Native Americans. The Eastern Mediterranean is such a mix of post Bronze-age nations that everyone is related to everyone else. The Arab conquests pretty much mixed up the pool well too.

But again, the best place to start is finding evidence for what you think you “know”.

Genetic testing is now only $99 at 23andMe but it is a hit and miss. If you can spare $99 it might be enlightening, but if you are tight on money then going through a commercial genealogy site like Ancestry.com might be a better buy.

Most of what I know has come from starting with the work of others who have gone before me.

422 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:29:11pm

re: #412 Targetpractice

I see the blind squirrel found a nut.

But Rubio is right to propose reform. And a compromise would be a good thing, would it not?

423 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:29:34pm

re: #421 freetoken

Recommend me a good genetic test ancestry thing. I would love to that.

424 gwangung  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:31:01pm

re: #422 Dark_Falcon

But Rubio is right to propose reform. And a compromise would be a good thing, would it not?

Depending on what it is….

425 Steve  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:31:19pm

The .46 Caliber Semi-Automatic Rifle That Changed the World

426 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:32:40pm

re: #422 Dark_Falcon

But Rubio is right to propose reform. And a compromise would be a good thing, would it not?

The problem is he’s dealing with a party base who think all history since The Reformation has been a tragic mistake.

427 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:32:55pm

re: #422 Dark_Falcon

But Rubio is right to propose reform. And a compromise would be a good thing, would it not?

Rubio couldn’t even sell his watered-down DREAM Act wannabe back in ‘11, yet now he’s seen as the GOP’s leader on immigration reform? If he was Mark Rubin, would they be so quick to jump on the bandwagon being steered by him?

428 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:33:08pm

re: #424 gwangung

Depending on what it is….

Well, the final shape of the Senate bill is still being determined. I’d ask that folks here at least wait to see its finalized form before committing to opposing it.

429 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:33:44pm

re: #423 ProBosniaLiberal

I don’t know what is “good.”

I’m going with 23andMe since I’m also interested in the health stuff as well as deep ancestry.

Ancestry.com now offers genetics testing by a sister company, but with fewer SNPs. Probably good for genealogy, but not as enlightening for medical stuff. And Ancestry.com will charge you annually to keep your access to the site, whereas 23andMe gets you 10 years.

For pure genealogy on paternal and maternal lines, FTDNA does very detailed Y chromosome and mtDNA tests, but at higher costs. But the detail can trace direct male lineages better than the others.

430 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:33:55pm

re: #427 Targetpractice

Rubio couldn’t even sell his watered-down DREAM Act wannabe back in ‘11, yet now he’s seen as the GOP’s leader on immigration reform? If he was Mark Rubin, would they be so quick to jump on the bandwagon being steered by him?

Getting klunked in an election can change things. And he’s got support this time.

431 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:35:07pm

re: #430 Dark_Falcon

Getting klunked in an election can change things. And he’s got support this time.

What’s changed is that they think putting a Latino Congress critter out front will fool Latino voters into believing the GOP is serious about winning their votes.

432 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:35:10pm

The only reason Rubio is in play for the GOP right now is they still think skin color trumps sound policy when it comes to winning elections.

433 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:39:29pm

Geeze guys! Can’t you give a compromise proposal a chance? Is it really good to just poo-poo it right out of the gate?

434 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:41:49pm

re: #433 Dark_Falcon

Geeze guys! Can’t you give a compromise proposal a chance? Is it really good to just poo-poo it right out of the gate?

I’m willing to give it a chance, but I’m not going to buy into this whole “turning over a new leaf” business. Until I actually see a bill, I’m going to assume that the framework is at best a work in progress and no guarantee that those who have hashed it out will all support the finished product.

435 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:44:28pm

re: #432 Kragar

They’ve admitted that SOMETHING has got to give.

And it’s not:
Tax breaks for the rich (priority #1)
Gaming the system so they don’t need a majority anywhere to win any election (priority #2)
Punishing sluts (priority #3)
Cutting off the future elderly from all meaningful help (priority #4)
Immediately abandoning the non-elderly poor of to the ravages to die asap (priority #5)
Giving black haters a biiiiiiiiiiig sloppy kiss! (priority #6)
Selling off the environment and ending all protections (priority #7)

So what could be better than speaking a tiny amount of Spanish? They hope that Spanish speaking women won’t even complain when they outlaw contraception!

436 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:44:59pm

re: #434 Targetpractice

I’m willing to give it a chance, but I’m not going to buy into this whole “turning over a new leaf” business. Until I actually see a bill, I’m going to assume that the framework is at best a work in progress and no guarantee that those who have hashed it out will all support the finished product.

That’s fair enough, but right now all 8 of those senators are working together in good faith. At least cut them some slack while they are doing so.

Good Night, all. Sorry I have to go, but I’m quickly becoming too tired to post.

437 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:45:09pm

re: #432 Kragar

The only reason Rubio is in play for the GOP right now is they still think skin color trumps sound policy when it comes to winning elections.

Derbyshire does not approve.

438 dragonath  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:46:14pm

re: #421 freetoken

You just reminded me of “Cheddar Man” whose descendants still live around the area. I can’t place the name of the people who lived on the British Isles before the Celts got there, though (if there is one).

I remember reading somewhere that despite the Celtic and Saxon invasions, that pre-Celtic lineage still makes up for most of what we consider “British”.

I’m sure you’re aware of the Bog People- but that is a strange topic for the middle of the night.

439 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:46:39pm

How many decades till they discover “oh, the public DOES understand our principles and hates them?”

If they gerrymander their way out of democracy, NEVER!

440 stabby  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:48:17pm

I forgot the priority about kicking all public money back to their cronies privatizing everything

441 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:50:52pm

Think I’ll be more inclined to believe the GOP is serious about immigration reform if Obama’s press conference later today, where he lays out his own proposals, isn’t immediately met with growling and snarling.

442 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:52:05pm

re: #439 stabby

Soledad tells former RNC chair: Minorities ‘know you and they… don’t like you’

O’Brien pointed out that South Carolina committeeman Glenn McCall, who is part of a task force charge with moving the party forward, had suggested to The Wall Street Journal that the problem was that minorities “simply don’t know us.”

“In many ways, we’re at square one,” McCall said. “There are large portions of the population — African-Americans, Hispanics, Asians, young voters — who simply don’t know us. We have to change that.”

“Is it that they don’t know you? Meaning you as the GOP,” O’Brien asked Martinez. “Or is that they know you and they decided they don’t like you?”

443 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:09:26pm

re: #438 dragonath

The Romans found many tribes when they conquered England. The Romans never subjected the Kings of the north (Scotland) or to the far west (Wales, Ireland.) I guess the Caesars eventually ran into the law of diminishing returns. However, Britania was very useful for its tin mines and thus worth the effort.

Pre-Roman settlements by farmers go back to the time of the great Henges. These are neolithic farmers, but they did trade in metals and precious stones as far away as the eastern Baltic and down into Turkey. The question is whether the neolithic farmers replaced the previous hunter-gatherers, or mixed thoroughly with them. All the groups from which he ascribe our ancestry - protoVikings, Celts, Germans, etc. are just late neo-lithic farming groups and doesn’t tell us what went before.

Thus the genetic testing.

The multiple conquests of the British isles by the Vikings and their descendants means there is significant over-lap with Scandinavian descent for anyone who claims to be “British”. Most “British” have both some Roman and some Scandinavian ancestry.

Given my ancestry in the Kings of Norway, their ancestry has been (supposedly) traced back to the older Kings of not only Wessex but of the Danes and the Swedes. Supposedly (according to my relatives who’ve researched this) that means I am also descended from none other than Hilderic, King of the Vandals, from whom among other parentage was descended from Emperor Valentinian III, one of whose ancestors was… Constantine.

Yes, that Constantine.

Am I a direct descendant of Constantine? Probably so. But then so are a great number of people alive today, even though they don’t have the pedigree worked out. We only “know” so because we have pretty good provenance back to the Kings of Norway, but before then one has to wonder if parentage was just myth or reality.

Fun stuff… but at some point “truth” turns into legend. While I am pretty sure of my American colonial ancestors, some of their British isles ancestry, and on the other side of my direct lines back to the Kings of 900-1200 Norway, anything farther back than that becomes speculation.

Heck, even the calendars were different, to say nothing of the languages.

444 gwangung  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:10:18pm
“In many ways, we’re at square one,” McCall said. “There are large portions of the population — African-Americans, Hispanics, Asians, young voters — who simply don’t know us

In other words, they think WE’RE the stupid ones.

Right.

445 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:11:18pm
446 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:25:02pm

re: #443 freetoken

I read somewhere that the heads of most European and Islamic royal families (even those that survive today) were all somewhat related to Eastern Roman (aka Byzantine) royalty because of the diplomacy of marrying off brides to other royals for about 1,000 years.

447 palomino  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:36:35pm

re: #444 gwangung

In other words, they think WE’RE the stupid ones.

Right.

Yes, because blacks, Hispanics, Asians, single women, young urbanites all have no knowledge whatsoever of the GOP.///

The GOP has been trying to “introduce itself” to all these groups for decades. But nativism, racism, sexism, good old boy-ism, etc. have a way of turning off some voters.

448 BongCrodny  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:36:43pm

re: #419 Kragar

Speaking of utter and complete scum…

Ex-Gay Therapist Blames Patients For Their Failure To ‘Pray Away The Gay’

It’s a scum scam.

449 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:36:49pm

re: #388 ProBosniaLiberal

Istanbul.

Considering the reasons why the Rashidun Capliphate ended up yanking so much of the Byzantine territory away (namely, persecution of those who were not Trinitarian Christian), I refuse to call it Constantinople.

It’s either Byzantium or Istanbul to me. Also, the Greek Government was there for the genocides of the 90’s. My little way to get back at them.

You know it is because of stupid fucking Americans like you who think they know other people’s history that the world ends up being as fucked up as it is - including siding for the Bosnian Muslims who were no less guilty than the Croats or the Serbs in that civil war.

And for your information, the Arabs were able to move into Roman lands because the Zoroastrian Persians and Romans had exhausted themselves in the Middle East which had also suffered a devastating region wide earth quake.

On top of your ignorant bullshit in not calling “Constantinople” that as some insult to the Greeks. Half the emperors of the empire were Armenians for example and not Greeks and it was not a “Greek” city (just the language used just like New York City is not an Anglo-Saxon city even though they speak English there).

And finally, Istanbul is how Turks pronounced the name of the city and is actually more Greek to say Istanbul (“The City”) than the Latin “Constantinople”. And the Greeks call the city “Constantinople” not out of any dig to Turks, it is just the naming convention Greeks use. The Greeks still call France “Gaulia” and Switzerland “Helvetia”. I am sure the Greeks don’t call France Gaulia out of any long simmering ethnic hatred of the Franks. It’s what happens to old languages - Chinese also has the same conservative naming tendencies.

I swear, American liberal foreign policy twits are sometimes worse than neocons.

450 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:39:55pm

re: #448 BongCrodny

It’s a scum scam.

Over 10 years old and still spot on:

451 freetoken  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:40:28pm

re: #446 Destro

Don’t know what you mean by “Islamic royal families” (are there such things?), but the Ottomans replaced the Byzantine leaders. The Byzantine empire and associated royalty no doubt had mixed throughout Europe. Note that the Tsars of Russia were founded by Vikings. How they then mixed with the Bulgarians and Serbians and whatnots to create further royalty I do not know, but I’m sure there are plenty of details online somewhere.

Further to the East - the Khazars were not Islamic per se (but a mix of Jewish groups and others). To the south the Islamic Arab tribes were not, to by knowledge, inter-linked with European royal breeding. But someone else with knowledge of Arabian history will have to chime in here. Even farther to east, in the lands that later became “Islamic”, in south Asia - those histories are shrouded in mystery, but while there is plenty of East-west gene mixing how that relates to pedigreed families I do not know. For example, Alexander the Great made it to what is today Afghanistan and Pakistan, but I an unaware of any ruling families that claimed ancestry to the Greek conquerors.

452 palomino  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:41:21pm

re: #413 Kragar

What is it about the AR-15 that makes guys think they’re being persecuted if they can only own all other types of guns?

(Yeah, I know fully autos were banned, for the most part, in 1934. But it’s not as if banning only the AR-15 would seriously injure your right to acquire major firepower if you so desire.)

453 Kragar  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:46:25pm

re: #452 palomino

What is it about the AR-15 that makes guys think they’re being persecuted if they can only own all other types of guns?

(Yeah, I know fully autos were banned, for the most part, in 1934. But it’s not as if banning only the AR-15 would seriously injure your right to acquire major firepower if you so desire.)

Hell, they aren’t even being told they can’t own an AR-15. They’re being told they can’t have large capacity magazines, background checks are going to be more stringent and the government wants to track ownership and sales more carefully and they are freaking the fuck out.

Its the same with the Abortion debate. There are some serious issues that need to be reasonably discussed, but they’re so dead fucking set on staking out the most extremist views, no one who is willing to debate can even broach the subject.

454 Destro  Mon, Jan 28, 2013 11:58:09pm

re: #451 freetoken

The Kalash people in Afghanistan (and some other minor tribes) claim descent from Alexander’s Greeks (or the Bactrian Greeks more likely).

In any case, I don’t recall name of the article that dealt with the marriage diplomacy of the Byzantines for a 1,000 years. It was pretty cool.

455 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:14:08am

re: #305 ProBosniaLiberal

Even if Poland only lasted a few more weeks, it would have bloodied the Nazis that much more. And, if I remember correctly, the Poles had some sort of Fallback plan to Romania?

The Poles were surrounded before the war started: with German forces in East Prussia and Czechoslovakia, the Wehrmacht just had to close the jaws of the pincer and swallow them.

456 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:18:20am

re: #345 Targetpractice

Reading an alternative history, or rather speculative history, book dealing with scenarios involving major turning points of WWII, starting in ‘38 with the lead-up to Munich. Folks never realize just how possible it was, in the years leading up to the war, that Hitler might have been deposed or even assassinated and the whole thing avoided.

This is what we have to ponder: history does not turn on small events. Hitler could have been deposed, but a Franco-like fascist authoritarian regime would have lingered at the heart of Europe.

Even after the total defeat of the Nazis in 1945, it took nearly another 30 years to rid Germany of residual hidden Nazi ideology and make it into a modern, stable constitutional democracy.

457 freetoken  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:55:45am

This one goes out to my (supposed) great28th grandfather Sweyn Forkbeard, King of Denmark, England, and Norway:

458 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:58:45am

re: #457 freetoken

My family has a very uncommon last name, so there is a pretty strong likelihood my family can trace one of our earliest ancestors to a Roman Centurion in the later days of the Empire. We’ve also got a small village named after us (or vice versa maybe).

459 freetoken  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:14:52am

re: #458 Kragar

Probably. However, ancestries certainly take strange turns. I look at my supposed ancestry, before the unification of Norway, with highly skeptical eyes. Scandinavians had extensive traditions of land ownership and heritage so there are a lot of records, but knowing what is “true” or not is another thing. Certainly there were many lies, and some forgotten knowledge.

Grandmother of good ol’ Forkbeard was Thyra, and if Forkbeard is supposed to be an ancestor of mine then Thyra is also. But hear what Wikipedia says about Thyra:

According to popular tradition, Thyra’s daughter was captured by trolls and carried off to a kingdom in the far north beyond Halogaland and Biarmaland.

I figure once we’re back into the age of trolls and such we’re on the edge of slipping into myth, no?

Fortunately my descent is supposed to be through her son (King Bluetooth) so I don’t have to worry about troll ancestry…

460 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:19:27am

re: #459 freetoken

Fortunately my descent is supposed to be through her son (King Bluetooth) so I don’t have to worry about troll ancestry…

And King Bluetooth married Princess Blackberry and begat their son iPod…

461 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:20:54am

re: #459 freetoken

Probably. However, ancestries certainly take strange turns. I look at my supposed ancestry, before the unification of Norway, with highly skeptical eyes. Scandinavians had extensive traditions of land ownership and heritage so there are a lot of records, but knowing what is “true” or not is another thing. Certainly there were many lies, and some forgotten knowledge.

Grandmother of good ol’ Forkbeard was Thyra, and if Forkbeard is supposed to be an ancestor of mine then Thyra is also. But hear what Wikipedia says about Thyra:

I figure once we’re back into the age of trolls and such we’re on the edge of slipping into myth, no?

Fortunately my descent is supposed to be through her son (King Bluetooth) so I don’t have to worry about troll ancestry…

With us, its pretty much all family names. Last family reunion my dad went to, every blood relative with ties to our family in this hemisphere was there and we barely broke 100 people. Grandparents went to a family reunion in Italy and they had maybe 400.

We don’t expect the family name to continue in the US beyond another generation or two. The current generation coming up now is all girls, not a single boy to carry on the family name this side of the Atlantic. Not a single boy in the last 25 years.

462 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:39:24am

I already mentioned that I found a namesake of mine on Facebook, he lives in Canada and is a flight mechanic for the RCAF. I told him about my uncle and namesake who built and flew his own light plane.

And I found another namesake from Nebraska who has published translations of of works on Russian Orthodox theology. I have an MA in Russian and work as a translator…

463 freetoken  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:54:12am

re: #461 Kragar

The current generation coming up now is all girls, not a single boy to carry on the family name this side of the Atlantic. Not a single boy in the last 25 years.

Well, according to National Review that means your family is unfit to be leaders.

It’s never too late to go procreatin’ …

464 freetoken  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:08:29am

We’ll send this one out to Mieszko I of Poland, supposed father of Sigrid the Haughty, also known as Gunhilda of Poland, wife of my granddad good ol’ Forkbeard, and by whom she had a daughter Estrid (my ancestor), making Mieszko I my great29th grandfather.

Mieszko is credited in turning Poland to the western version of Christianity…

465 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:09:03am

re: #461 Kragar

We don’t expect the family name to continue in the US beyond another generation or two. The current generation coming up now is all girls, not a single boy to carry on the family name this side of the Atlantic. Not a single boy in the last 25 years.

There is no longer any law requiring a wife to take her husband’s name, and as far as I know, the only restriction on siblings from a marriage is that they all bear the same surname.

I have known couples where both partners have taken a double hyphenated name even know a fellow here who took his wife’s name at marriage, as his last name was “Knödel” (dumpling).

466 freetoken  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:56:08am

The following is dedicated to Haakon Sigurdsson, another 28th great grandfather of mine (like Forkbeard - their grandchildren would hook up), who, in those good old days when real men fought over religion, countered Bluetooth’s advancing Christianity with bloodshed:

Haakon was a strong believer in the old Norse gods, and when Harald Bluetooth attempted to force Christianity upon him around 975, Haakon broke his allegiance to Denmark. In 977 Vladimir I of Kiev fled to him, collecting as many of the Viking warriors as he could to assist him to recover Novgorod, and on his return the next year marched against Yaropolk I of Kiev. In 986, a Danish invasion fleet led by the fabled Jomsvikings was defeated at the Battle of Hjörungavágr.

In 995, a quarrel broke out between Haakon and the Trønders just as Olaf Tryggvason, a descendant of Harald Fairhair arrived. Haakon quickly lost all support, and was killed by his own slave and friend, Tormod Kark, while hiding in the pig sty in the farm Rimul in Melhus. […]

My ancestors fought a lot. This goes out to them:

467 freetoken  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:57:35am

et tu, Tormod?

468 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:03:49am

re: #466 freetoken

Have you read the eddas?

469 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:12:56am

Good morning!

Is that Buck thread from last night still going on?

470 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:35:02am

These fucktards call themselves “patriots” but they are endorsing violent overthrow of the government.

471 dragonath  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:39:24am

re: #443 freetoken

I was reading a book about Roman Britain and was surprised to find out that there’s a letter from Cicero from around Caesar’s incursion which says Brittania has “no great worth, except in slaves”.

Political intrigue, maybe? I’d be surprised if the Romans didn’t know what the Greeks knew (the argentiferous tin mines) for hundreds of years.

472 freetoken  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 5:08:25am

re: #468 Obdicut

Have you read the eddas?

No.

Olde Norse is Greek to me.

473 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 5:11:18am

re: #471 dragonath

Cicero had agrarian interests and was anti-Caeser. You can never take anything Cicero says straightforwardly without the political context.

474 Obdicut  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 5:11:37am

re: #472 freetoken

No.

Olde Norse is Greek to me.

I meant in translation. There are very good ones.

475 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 5:37:02am

Morning, Lizards! Nice to see the inmates in the RWNJ asylum behaving:

476 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 5:40:25am

Shocka!

477 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 6:23:58am
478 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 6:36:18am

re: #477 Lidane

It would be almost worth tweeting just to reply “Sure. Everyone needs to be able to recognize stupidity in writing. “

479 stabby  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 7:30:31am

re: #478 William Barnett-Lewis

i would have said “people should read a real economist instead”

480 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 8:07:51am

re: #479 stabby

i would have said “people should read a real economist instead”

myself:
Eh, I prefer fiction that has a plot.

481 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:52:24pm

re: #78 Ian G.

Rival organization. You don’t see Los Zetas tolerating MS-13 in their midst, do you?

On another note, how many different Jewish organizations can you count on this list? One wonders if Wayne LaPierre is concerned that “the Jews” are out to get him….

I counted 9!


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