President Obama Speaks on Fixing the Broken Immigration System

We all used to be them
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The live video feed has concluded; we’ll post the official recorded video as soon as it’s available at YouTube. In the meantime, here’s an open thread to discuss…

UPDATE at 1/29/13 12:32:56 pm

An interesting point from Ezra Klein:

UPDATE at 1/29/13 12:37:33 pm

The New York Times has a Full Transcript of President Obama’s Remarks on Immigration Reform.

UPDATE at 1/29/13 2:12:35 pm

And here’s the official White House video:

Jump to bottom

405 comments
1 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:06:47pm
2 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:07:12pm

Looks like Breaking Bad is getting filmed outside my building right now.

3 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:08:08pm

Good speech, wingnuts will hate it.

4 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:08:48pm

re: #2 SpaceJesus

Looks like Breaking Bad is getting filmed outside my building right now.

Cops?

5 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:09:41pm

Sorry to go OT so soon, but it seemed relevant, as Rubio let the cat out of the bag on why the rush to get the Senate framework out ahead of today’s speech:

Rubio To Rush: I Have An Escape Hatch On Immigration

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) made the case for immigration reform to Rush Limbaugh on his radio show Tuesday, but made clear his willingness to blow up talks if he thinks a bill is moving too far to the left.

Limbaugh, who said on Monday that “it’s up to me and Fox News” to kill immigration reform efforts, gave Rubio a respectful hearing but said he feared the senator was being exploited to advance Democratic goals.

Rubio defended his efforts as a shield against accusations that Republicans don’t care about immigrants in case negotiations fail.

6 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:11:11pm

re: #4 Kragar

I have a trial at 130 and my officer witness that im waiting for is doing overtime providing security for the film crew downtown. Tons of cops.

7 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:11:17pm

re: #5 Targetpractice

Sorry to go OT so soon, but it seemed relevant, as Rubio let the cat out of the bag on why the rush to get the Senate framework out ahead of today’s speech:

Rubio To Rush: I Have An Escape Hatch On Immigration

You know Marco, you’re the Senator from Florida not the Senator for Rush Limbaugh. You don’t owe his sorry ass any explanation unless you’re trying to suck up to him to show you’re a “true conservative” and that’s the only thing that matters. Oh wait…….

8 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:12:09pm

re: #6 SpaceJesus

I have a trial at 130 and my officer witness that im waiting for is doing overtime providing security for the film crew downtown. Tons of cops.

Oh, so they’re actually filming. I thought you just meant there was a big police chase or something.

9 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:14:25pm

re: #7 HappyWarrior

You know Marco, you’re the Senator from Florida not the Senator for Rush Limbaugh. You don’t owe his sorry ass any explanation unless you’re trying to suck up to him to show you’re a “true conservative” and that’s the only thing that matters. Oh wait…….

I’d venture a guess that sucking up to Rush is pretty much a prerequisite for running in the Presidential primary.

10 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:14:28pm

re: #5 Targetpractice

Sorry to go OT so soon, but it seemed relevant, as Rubio let the cat out of the bag on why the rush to get the Senate framework out ahead of today’s speech:

Rubio To Rush: I Have An Escape Hatch On Immigration

Damnit, Marco, what did the chairman say about saying stupid shit?

WE JUST WENT OVER THIS

11 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:15:00pm

re: #9 Ghost of Tom Joad

I’d venture a guess that sucking up to Rush is pretty much a prerequisite for running in the Presidential primary.

Yeah, sure as hell seems that way.

12 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:15:00pm

re: #8 Kragar

Well theres probably a meth bust going on somewhere in this city rght now im sure

13 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:15:02pm

Honestly think the items in Obama’s speech today that will send wingnuts further up the wall than “amnesty” is the call for legal immigration reform. Calls to do away with quotas and making it easier to immigrate to these shores is likely going to cause screaming fits about how Obama is trying to ship over the world’s poor here so he can get even more welfare dependents to vote for Democrats.

14 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:15:36pm

re: #3 Kragar

Good speech, wingnuts will hate it.

Yep. Makes sense. Everything he spoke about can be implemented with minimal fuss and is fair.

But he wasted tax payer dollars flying out to Las Vegas to give this usless speech

BTW, C-Span has opened the phone lines for live comments. This aught to be interesting.

15 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:16:05pm

Marco Rubio: The GOP’s way of saying “We’ve got a Latino, so you can ignore the other 99.99% of us.”

16 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:16:18pm

re: #13 Targetpractice

Honestly think the items in Obama’s speech today that will send wingnuts further up the wall than “amnesty” is the call for legal immigration reform. Calls to do away with quotas and making it easier to immigrate to these shores is likely going to cause screaming fits about how Obama is trying to ship over the world’s poor here so he can get even more welfare dependents to vote for Democrats.

Yes, unfortunately. Saw McCain’s proposal downstairs and this is coming from a man with a moderate reputation on the issue. Don’t want to know what the more nutty have in mind and will respond.

17 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:16:31pm

Eagerly awaiting the transcript.

/damn you Flash

18 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:17:00pm

re: #17 wrenchwench

Eagerly awaiting the transcript.

/damn you Flash

He’s just a man, with a man’s courage.

19 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:18:30pm

re: #10 erik_t

Damnit, Marco, what did the chairman say about saying stupid shit?

WE JUST WENT OVER THIS

It’s a very delicate dance. Romney tried it but he obviously wasn’t even close to being conniving enough to pull it off. It’s all about sounding crazy enough to win the primary, but doing so in a deniable “that wasn’t really what I was saying” manner so that you can believably move to the middle in the general.

20 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:18:45pm

re: #16 HappyWarrior

Yes, unfortunately. Saw McCain’s proposal downstairs and this is coming from a man with a moderate reputation on the issue. Don’t want to know what the more nutty have in mind and will respond.

We might know as early as tomorrow, as rumor has it the House is close to releasing its own “bipartisan” proposals.

21 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:18:58pm

Can we just call Marco Rubio a joke? I’m sorry but I can’t take this guy seriously when he seems to care more about defending his plan to Rush fucking Limbaugh than actually providing a real solution. Who cares about how “left” or “right” it is you partisan hack, it should be about how the legislation can better help American immigrants not about what makes poor widdle Rush Limbaugh feel that he can trust Marco Rubio enough. Seriously, if there’s ever a Republican senator that has the courage to tell Rush Limbaugh that he doesn’t give a shit what Limbaugh says about him or her and that his fat ass should be a national joke for all the crap he’s said over the past two decades, that man or woman will have my honest respect. What has Rush Limbaugh done to deserve the ass kissing he gets?

22 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:20:40pm

re: #19 Ghost of Tom Joad

It’s a very delicate dance. Romney tried it but he obviously wasn’t even close to being conniving enough to pull it off. It’s all about sounding crazy enough to win the primary, but doing so in a deniable “that wasn’t really what I was saying” manner so that you can believably move to the middle in the general.

Pretty much. Kind of like Mitt can hire Kris Kobach and claim he wasn’t trying to be insensitive to Latinos.

23 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:21:29pm

re: #19 Ghost of Tom Joad

It’s a very delicate dance. Romney tried it but he obviously wasn’t even close to being conniving enough to pull it off. It’s all about sounding crazy enough to win the primary, but doing so in a deniable “that wasn’t really what I was saying” manner so that you can believably move to the middle in the general.

I don’t care how conniving you are, you can’t bravely announce your dog whistle to Rush on live radio.

I know this may blow minds on the right, but a few poor souls on the left actually listen to that show and record what is said.

And then the rest of us actually do research when deciding what candidates to support.

Crazy, I know, listening to quotes that people actually said rather than “you didn’t build that” soundbites.

24 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:22:56pm

I think its safe to say that any politician who takes time out of his day to address concerns raised by Rush Limbaugh can go ahead and fuck right off.

25 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:24:44pm

re: #24 Kragar

I think its safe to say that any politician who takes time out of his day to address concerns raised by Rush Limbaugh can go ahead and fuck right off.

And any GOP politician who bucks up against Rush can write off his next primary…

26 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:24:53pm

Schlafly Says ‘Feminist Ideology’ Unfairly Blames Men for Sexual Assaults

As the Obama administration continues to be a complete nightmare for antifeminist activist Phyllis Schlafly, the Eagle Forum president is out with a new column attacking Defense Secretary Leon Panetta over his decision to end the ban on women in combat. She claims the policy shift is “lacking in common sense and it is toadying to the feminist officers who yearn to be 3- and 4-star generals based on the feminist dogma of gender interchangeability and on their desire to force men into situations to be commanded by feminists” and even makes a bogus analogy to the NFL.

Schlafly said that the rate of sexual assaults “will skyrocket” if the ban is removed and also attacked the “feminist ideology” for blaming men for such incidents: “Only men will be deemed at fault because it is feminist ideology that men are innately batterers and women are victims.”

27 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:25:14pm

re: #23 erik_t

I don’t care how conniving you are, you can’t bravely announce your dog whistle to Rush on live radio.

I know this may blow minds on the right, but a few poor souls on the left actually listen to that show and record what is said.

And then the rest of us actually do research when deciding what candidates to support.

Crazy, I know, listening to quotes that people actually said rather than “you didn’t build that” soundbites.

I like the defense of Rush that he’s using satire. Remember Palin defending Limbaugh for calling liberal democrats retards on the air but blasting Rahm Emmanuel for saying it off camera. Limbaugh could say the n-word repeatedly on the air and it would be defended because Rush apparently is the greatest satirist since Jonathan Swift.

28 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:26:32pm

re: #21 HappyWarrior

To quote Michael Douglas in “The American President,” Rush is good at 2 things: making you afraid of it, and telling you who’s to blame for it.

That’s pretty much it. Take a bunch of people who are hyper-conservative, which means they come equipped with a victim complex and varying levels of racism and bigotry, and tell them exactly what they want to hear. They have a need to be afraid of damn-near everything, and he just spoon-feeds them sugar-coated fear.

And a Republican telling him off? Please. If they even utter something he doesn’t like they have to go on an apology tour to kiss his ass. If a Republican from a minority background won’t do it, none of them will. At least not one that wants to stay in the good-graces of the base.

29 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:26:54pm

re: #27 HappyWarrior

I like the defense of Rush that he’s using satire. Remember Palin defending Limbaugh for calling liberal democrats retards on the air but blasting Rahm Emmanuel for saying it off camera. Limbaugh could say the n-word repeatedly on the air and it would be defended because Rush apparently is the greatest satirist since Jonathan Swift.

Curiously, nobody on the left seems to believe this, no matter how many times it is bellowed.

Perhaps if the right wing paid any fucking attention whatsoever to the thoughts and ideas on the left, they might realize this and either try a new strategy/excuse or (lol j/k) reject Rush entirely.

30 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:27:06pm

re: #26 Kragar

Schlafly Says ‘Feminist Ideology’ Unfairly Blames Men for Sexual Assaults

Party of Personal Responsibility My Ass.

31 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:28:11pm

re: #30 wrenchwench

Party of Personal Responsibility My Ass.

Personal responsibility is for the envaginated. Now go make mah dinner, woman!

32 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:28:21pm

re: #30 wrenchwench

Party of Personal Responsibility My Ass.

Personal responsibility for thee but not for me. I’ve always been amused by Phyillis though. You know the whole slam women who work outside the home while she has you know sort of made a career out of it.

33 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:28:32pm

There seems to be more movement on the immigration issue than I’ve seen in a while, but I seriously doubt any bills will make it through the House of Tea Party Representatives unless they include moats and minefields.

The Senate bill is really not that wonderful, either.

34 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:29:06pm

re: #15 Kragar

Marco Rubio: The GOP’s way of saying “We’ve got a Latino, so you can ignore the other 99.99% of us.”

Rubio’s even got his own set of birther loons.

35 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:30:14pm

re: #32 HappyWarrior

Personal responsibility for thee but not for me. I’ve always been amused by Phyillis though. You know the whole slam women who work outside the home while she has you know sort of made a career out of it.

She’s been doing it since I was in grade school. That’s a loooong time. I recognized the hypocrisy even then.

36 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:30:15pm

re: #30 wrenchwench

Party of Personal Responsibility My Ass.

Society needs to protect fragile, clueless men serving in the Armed Forces from the predations of aggressive militant feminists apparently.

37 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:31:03pm

re: #34 Lidane

Rubio’s even got his own set of birther loons.

How can you trust a man whose name ends with vowels?

38 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:31:23pm

re: #35 wrenchwench

She’s been doing it since I was in grade school. That’s a loooong time. I recognized the hypocrisy even then.

I always thought it was funny considering we know nothing about Mr. Schalfry.I mean if she was a woman who happened to be conservative fine but she’s made a career running down feminism and women who advocate equal opportunities for women.

39 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:31:34pm

re: #19 Ghost of Tom Joad

It’s a very delicate dance. Romney tried it but he obviously wasn’t even close to being conniving enough to pull it off.

Here’s Romney’s version of a very delicate dance.

Image: ZM9m6.gif

40 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:31:53pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

There seems to be more movement on the immigration issue than I’ve seen in a while, but I seriously doubt any bills will make it through the House of Tea Party Representatives unless they include moats and minefields.

The Senate bill is really not that wonderful, either.

The fact that they’re still making ‘border security’ a part of immigration reform tells you that they’re trying to do as close to nothing as they can.

41 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:32:13pm
She claims the policy shift is “lacking in common sense and it is toadying to the feminist officers who yearn to be 3- and 4-star generals based on the feminist dogma of gender interchangeability and on their desire to force men into situations to be commanded by feminists”

Instead we should ‘toady’ to Schafly and the Eagle Forum. /

42 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:33:03pm

re: #41 Bulworth

Instead we should ‘toady’ to Schafly and the Eagle Forum. /

Yeah and her son’s conservepedia because wikipedia founded by an Ayn Rand fan is too liberal!

43 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:33:10pm

re: #38 HappyWarrior

I always thought it was funny considering we know nothing about Mr. Schalfry.I mean if she was a woman who happened to be conservative fine but she’s made a career running down feminism and women who advocate equal opportunities for women.

And her son is following in her footsteps. That’s what all manly conservative men do, right?

44 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:33:39pm

Full Transcript of President Obama’s Speech (for those in Cubicle Land)

45 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:34:05pm

re: #44 Vicious Babushka

Full Transcript of President Obama’s Speech (for those in Cubicle Land)

Thank you!

46 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:34:09pm

Perkins Warns Allowing Women In Combat Will Lead to Reinstatement of the Draft

On his radio program on Friday, Family Research Council president Tony Perkins added his voice to the Religious Right’s collective outrage over the Pentagon’s decision to allow women to serve in combat positions. The move, Perkins warned, will decrease morale and deter volunteers to the point that “we will have to reinstate the draft.”

Just like they had to do when they let homosexuals serve openly.

Wait a sec…

47 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:34:32pm

Listening to the Republican reaction to immigration reform on CNN right now.
Their two interviews:
Rep. Lou Barletta (R-PA), who was quoted on Monday as saying the following:

[T]he GOP should have no interest in providing a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, claiming that most are uneducated, government-dependent individuals who wouldn’t support the party.

“I hope politics is not at the root of why we’re rushing to pass a bill. Anyone who believes that they’re going to win over the Latino vote is grossly mistaken,” Barletta said, according to the Morning Call.

Then Phil Kent of the Georgia Immigration Review Board just went full dogwhistle by saying that immigration reform can’t happen until we keep Muslims from immigrating into the US.

This is the kind of insanity that President Obama is having to combat for proper reform.

48 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:35:04pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

There seems to be more movement on the immigration issue than I’ve seen in a while, but I seriously doubt any bills will make it through the House of Tea Party Representatives unless they include moats and minefields.

The Senate bill is really not that wonderful, either.

When I saw in the framework that they want to give border state governors a say in whether border security is sufficient or not, hinging a pathway to citizenship on such a finding, I knew that they weren’t all that serious. It’s about having a fail-safe in place so that they can say “See, the reason we haven’t gone forward with making people legal citizens is because the border is still unsecured!”

49 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:36:09pm

re: #46 Kragar

I wonder what his objection to the draft is. Of course, if we aren’t starting wars with all the countries Perkins’ gang wants us to start wars with, there won’t need to be a draft.

50 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:36:33pm

re: #47 RadicalModerate

Listening to the Republican reaction to immigration reform on CNN right now.
Their two interviews:
Rep. Lou Barletta (R-PA), who was quoted on Monday as saying the following:

Then Phil Kent of the Georgia Immigration Review Board just went full dogwhistle by saying that immigration reform can’t happen until we keep Muslims from immigrating into the US.

This is the kind of insanity that President Obama is having to combat for

The former is the one that Rush invoked in Rubio’s presence, which should have earned a spit in his face rather than a “reasoned” response. The argument is “These are not conservative, hard-working individuals who want to come here, it’s the world’s refuse. They’re not natural Republicans and we shouldn’t let them in just to swell the Democrat ranks.”

51 Geoff with a G  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:36:52pm

re: #39 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Here’s Romney’s version of a very delicate dance.

Image: ZM9m6.gif

I’ve must have missed that video/gif…but is that Gangnam Style?

52 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:37:13pm

...

53 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:38:03pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Grifters gonna grift.

54 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:38:37pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

At the moment, I don’t think there’s an actual bill. It’s a framework that the gang worked out, but the actual language has yet to be decided.

They’ve worded a lot of the proposal in such generalities that it’s hard to say what the final version will look like, assuming it ever sees daylight in the House.

And there are some in the Senate who are already looking to do a separate immigration bill for high tech workers.

55 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:38:49pm

re: #50 Targetpractice

The former is the one that Rush invoked in Rubio’s presence, which should have earned a spit in his face rather than a “reasoned” response. The argument is “These are not conservative, hard-working individuals who want to come here, it’s the world’s refuse. They’re not natural Republicans and we shouldn’t let them in just to swell the Democrat ranks.”

Really as an immigrant’s son, Rubio could have used that moment to school Rush but no he prefers kissing Rush’s sorry ass. I bet Marco’s parents are so proud of him for cozying up to a man who thinks they have no work ethic. Because Rush Limbaugh is the embodiment of hard work. Drop out of college and trash people and make millions.

56 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:39:15pm

re: #26 Kragar

Schlafly Says ‘Feminist Ideology’ Unfairly Blames Men for Sexual Assaults

One of the few groups of people I really can’t seem to figure out: anti-feminist women. Always seem to be the hoity-toity types (prim and proper? not sure exactly what to use). What are they afraid of? I think most women want to do more than cook, clean, and pump out a unit every 9 months.

It almost seems puritanical in nature, like they’re afraid women might be successful at what historically was a male-laden occupation.

Do not get. Please to explain me it. /shrug

57 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:40:48pm

re: #56 Ghost of Tom Joad

One of the few groups of people I really can’t seem to figure out: anti-feminist women. Always seem to be the hoity-toity types (prim and proper? not sure exactly what to use). What are they afraid of? I think most women want to do more than cook, clean, and pump out a unit every 9 months.

It almost seems puritanical in nature, like they’re afraid women might be successful at what historically was a male-laden occupation.

Do not get. Please to explain me it. /shrug

It’s even weirder to me when it comes from other women.

58 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:42:26pm

re: #56 Ghost of Tom Joad

One of the few groups of people I really can’t seem to figure out: anti-feminist women. Always seem to be the hoity-toity types (prim and proper? not sure exactly what to use). What are they afraid of? I think most women want to do more than cook, clean, and pump out a unit every 9 months.

It almost seems puritanical in nature, like they’re afraid women might be successful at what historically was a male-laden occupation.

Do not get. Please to explain me it. /shrug

They believed in a set of rules that held them back.
They see other women succeeding when they never took the chance.
They resent them for making them feel bad, so attack the women rather than the belief system they’re invested in.

59 efuseakay  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:42:48pm

Idiocy at CNN:

bencoates57 says:
January 29, 2013 at 3:35 pm
As soon as I can build up my savings again, I’m taking my family to France and leaving this country behind for good. The French have a country they can call their own. France. It’s only people born in the United States who have no country. Their country belongs to the world. If Congress approves this immigration reform, it is for one reason and one reason only. Votes. No one has the courage to act in accordance with common sense or character.

Jim Hoft posts at CNN? Who knew!

60 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:43:12pm

re: #51 Geoff with a G

I’ve must have missed that video/gif…but is that Gangnam Style?

Yes I think it is.

61 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:43:45pm

re: #59 efuseakay

Idiocy at CNN:

Jim Hoft posts at CNN? Who knew!

Do they know how high the French tax rates are right now? Damn.

62 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:44:42pm

re: #58 Kragar

They believed in a set of rules that held them back.
They see other women succeeding when they never took the chance.
They resent them for making them feel bad, so attack the women rather than the belief system they’re invested in.

But yet Phyillis Schalfry is successful in a way. She’s a published author, columnist, and can take a lot of credit for the defeat of the ERA. Really for a woman who disdains feminism, she’s benefited from what feminists strive for women: A world where women have an as equal say in the world of influence. I don’t get why she’s never seen the irony in that. I mean as I said, it’s not that she’s a woman who happens to be conservative, she’s made her bones denouncing policies that have benefited women like her.

63 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:45:14pm

re: #58 Kragar

They believed in a set of rules that held them back.
They see other women succeeding when they never took the chance.
They resent them for making them feel bad, so attack the women rather than the belief system they’re invested in.

You mean like self-hating, repressed gays who are jealous of other gays who had the strength and the courage to come out?

64 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:45:34pm

re: #59 efuseakay

Idiocy at CNN:

Jim Hoft posts at CNN? Who knew!

To France? Of all the places an idiot wingnut would pick to move to…something doesn’t add up. I mean jeez, is the weather in Kenya not good or something?

65 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:46:27pm

re: #59 efuseakay

Idiocy at CNN:

Jim Hoft posts at CNN? Who knew!

They’re assuming the French allow them to live there.

66 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:46:32pm

re: #59 efuseakay

He’s going to be in for a rather interesting awakening when he sees how French people react to rude nationalist foreigners.

67 allegro  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:47:27pm

re: #58 Kragar

They believed in a set of rules that held them back.
They see other women succeeding when they never took the chance.
They resent them for making them feel bad, so attack the women rather than the belief system they’re invested in.

It’s more like the fact that there is a lot of money and fame for useful idiots who sell out their own in service to their oppressors (or in the case of patriarchy, the oppressive system and those who benefit most from it).

68 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:47:39pm

re: #66 RadicalModerate

He’s going to be in for a rather interesting awakening when he sees how French people react to rude nationalist foreigners.

or when he sees that France’s president is actually a socialist.

69 Geoff with a G  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:48:19pm

re: #60 dragonfire1981

And he didn’t check to make sure the musician was pro-America before adopting a dance style? For shame. //

70 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:48:27pm

re: #66 RadicalModerate

He’s going to be in for a rather interesting awakening when he sees how French people react to rude nationalist foreigners.

It’s OK, he’ll just yell back louder about the natives not understanding simple English.
/

72 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:50:29pm

re: #71 Kragar

And it begins:

On Immigration, Boehner Spokesman Warns Obama Not To ‘Drag The Debate To The Left’

GOP Rep.: ‘Pathway To Citizenship’ Will Cost $2.7 Trillion

and mass deportations will be so much more inexpensive and what does Bonehead’s idiot spokesman mean by drag it to the left? I guess that’s asswipe code for “anything we don’t like.” Sigh I hate these obstructionist fucks.

73 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:50:58pm

re: #71 Kragar

And it begins:

On Immigration, Boehner Spokesman Warns Obama Not To ‘Drag The Debate To The Left’

GOP Rep.: ‘Pathway To Citizenship’ Will Cost $2.7 Trillion

I hope he can’t sit down for a whole month after pulling a number that big out of his ass.

74 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:52:45pm

re: #72 HappyWarrior

and mass deportations will be so much more inexpensive and what does Bonehead’s idiot spokesman mean by drag it to the left? I guess that’s asswipe code for “anything we don’t like.” Sigh I hate these obstructionist fucks.

They could pay for it by eliminating the war on drugs.

75 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:53:27pm

Gun rights activists plan ‘day of resistance’ for Feb. 23 in honor of .223 assault weapon

A series of rallies by Tea Party activists and pro-gun campaigners will be held across the US in response to the 23 executive orders introduced by President Obama that organisers say are “unconstitutional”.
…
The day of resistance website features an American flag covered with the shadows of protesters holding guns, including assault rifles, aloft. Stockton runs the conservative website TheTeaParty.net along with 20-full-time staff, and said the protests could be bigger than the wave of Tea Party protests that swept across the US following Obama’s 2008 election win.

76 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:53:41pm

re: #71 Kragar

of course the “bi-partisan” proposal is to the left.

77 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:53:57pm

re: #74 Ghost of Tom Joad

They could pay for it by eliminating the war on drugs.

YEah but that’s not going to happen anytime soon. Both parties blow big time on that issue.

78 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:54:08pm

re: #68 HappyWarrior

or when he sees that France’s president is actually a socialist.

Or that any children of his born on French soil won’t automatically be French citizens.

79 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:54:13pm

re: #74 Ghost of Tom Joad

They could pay for it by eliminating the war on drugs.

And stop subsidizing the private prison industry? WHAT KIND OF MONSTER ARE YOU?
/

80 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:54:32pm

re: #74 Ghost of Tom Joad

They could pay for it by eliminating the war on drugs.

Pity we can’t collect these behaviors onto a stage, film it, rotoscope animate it, and then sell it to the Japanese media as a new American-ized form of Kabuki. Since that essentially is what it is, theater.

81 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:55:37pm

re: #75 Kragar

Do the ‘activists’ know what the 23 executive orders are? (rhetorical question)

82 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:55:37pm

re: #71 Kragar

And it begins:

On Immigration, Boehner Spokesman Warns Obama Not To ‘Drag The Debate To The Left’

GOP Rep.: ‘Pathway To Citizenship’ Will Cost $2.7 Trillion

John has yet to realize that he needs Democrats more than they need him at the present.

83 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:57:06pm

re: #81 Bulworth

Do the ‘activists’ know what the 23 executive orders are? (rhetorical question)

they think it’s 923 Executive Orders.

84 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:57:14pm

re: #75 Kragar

Gun rights activists plan ‘day of resistance’ for Feb. 23 in honor of .223 assault weapon

This is all but guaranteed to lead to some sort of provocation/confrontation that is going to end up with people injured and/or killed…

But that is what these guys are gunning for. They are convinced that Obama is out to take their guns, they want the government to do something that they can use to “prove” that they were right all along.

85 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:58:11pm

Lots of wingnuts on Twitter angry at me for that “heckling” post.

86 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:59:23pm

re: #84 Sol Berdinowitz

This is all but guaranteed to lead to some sort of provocation/confrontation that is going to end up with people injured and/or killed…

But that is what these guys are gunning for. They are convinced that Obama is out to take their guns, they want the government to do something that they can use to “prove” that they were right all along.

I remain convinced a lot of these people are a police siren away from kicking off their own personal Waco.

87 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 12:59:50pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

Lots of wingnuts on Twitter angry at me for that “heckling” post.

Yeah, how dare you point out asshole wingnut behavior. You should have said that they were being patriotic and protecting freedom when they heckled the victim’s father.

88 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:00:01pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

Lots of wingnuts on Twitter angry at me for that “heckling” post.

Fishing for angry people again?
Image: Troll_204c19_1264966.jpg

89 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:00:01pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

Lots of wingnuts on Twitter angry at me for that “heckling” post.

You know you’re over the target…

90 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:00:43pm

So there’s now an attempt at clarification of the whole border states commission by Durbin:

Durbin Seeks To Clarify Role Of Proposed Border Security Commission

“Let me — let me clarify this. What we — we haven’t written the section, but what we envision is — is to create metrics, measurements, in terms of progress on border security that could be certified or at least attested to by local officials. But the ultimate decision will be by the Department of Homeland Security. So it isn’t going to be something as generic as safe and secure borders. We’d never agree on that. But metrics, in terms of resources on the border and the impact it has on illegal immigration.”

I can already see this running into trouble with the “states rights” crowd.

91 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:00:45pm

re: #74 Ghost of Tom Joad

Careful. All the fainting couches in the universe will not be able to withstand the massive pundit freakout if the war on drugs is questioned, let alone ended.

92 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:02:05pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

Lots of wingnuts on Twitter angry at me for that “heckling” post.

ITZ LIES!1! LIES 2 MAEK GUN SHUTERS LOOK BAD!1!


93 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:03:59pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

We didn’t heckle the man exploiting his son’s death, he heckled us!

94 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:04:30pm

re: #71 Kragar

Path to citizenship will cost $2.7t?

How do they even arrive at that figure for Medicare, Medicaid, SS, food stamps, and unemployment?

Can’t help but be suspicious of the number and want to see their math.

There’s a flip side to legalizing their status in some fashion - that path to citizenship.

At the end, these people will be:
1) paying fees (fines) for the legalization process;
2) paying SS/Medicare/Medicaid/UI taxes;
3) paying federal and state withholding in on the books transactions;
4) the health care costs could potentially be a wash since the nation is already paying for those costs - just not in the same fashion. Burden shifting is at play here and these people would be paying into the system and spreading the costs at the same time.

I’ve yet to see any really good analysis on this front, but the basis for the $2.7t seems to be that the illegal immigrants tend to work in lower skill positions and therefore don’t generate sufficient wages to generate revenues sufficient to offset the greater numbers. Take that deficit on an annual basis - multiply by 10 years, and presto - there’s your figure.

95 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:04:41pm

re: #75 Kragar

Gun rights activists plan ‘day of resistance’ for Feb. 23 in honor of .223 assault weapon

I think I’ll be staying indoors as much as possible that day.

96 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:04:41pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

Their evidence:

” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” vplayer=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” s_getdomindex=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” s_gettrackclickmap=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” s_getaccount=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” s_getpagename=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” s_getpageurl=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” s_getmovieid=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” s_getversion=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” s_getcharset=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” s_getswfurl=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }”>

And how can you argue with that?

97 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:06:47pm
I’ve yet to see any really good analysis on this front, but the basis for the $2.7t seems to be that the illegal immigrants tend to work in lower skill positions and therefore don’t generate sufficient wages to generate revenues sufficient to offset the greater numbers. Take that deficit on an annual basis - multiply by 10 years, the wingnuts are pulling it out of their ass, and presto - there’s your figure.

fxd

98 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:07:11pm

They’re really seething over this (but BENGHAZI-GHAZI-GHAZI-STAN is still the #1 Seethe of TGDN)

99 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:07:51pm

Deny deny deny. Just like wingnuts didn’t harass the boy’s family who supported SCHIP in the Bush years.

100 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:08:07pm

re: #96 Kragar

Their evidence:

” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” vplayer=”function () { return eval(instance.CallFunction(“” + __flash__argumentsToXML(arguments,0) + “”)); }” ETC

And how can you argue with that?

I’ll come up with an argument when I figure out your hieroglyphics.

101 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:09:15pm

re: #99 HappyWarrior

Was that the granite counter-tops family?

102 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:09:20pm

re: #94 lawhawk

Path to citizenship will cost $2.7t?

…

I’ve yet to see any really good analysis on this front, but the basis for the $2.7t seems to be that the illegal immigrants tend to work in lower skill positions and therefore don’t generate sufficient wages to generate revenues sufficient to offset the greater numbers. Take that deficit on an annual basis - multiply by 10 years, and presto - there’s your figure.

This would be roughly a quarter of a million dollars per person. That… seems like a lot. It’s a factor of five more than the US public debt per person (about $50,000), and we’ve been doing our best to accrue that for at least the last thirty years.

It’s certainly a smelly enough number to demand that someone show their math.

103 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:10:30pm
It’s certainly a smelly enough number to demand that someone show their math.

You’re taking away our first amendment rights and our second amendment rights and you’re trying to put us in the Twitter Gulag

104 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:11:15pm

re: #75 Kragar

Gun rights activists plan ‘day of resistance’ for Feb. 23 in honor of .223 assault weapon

What? My 7.62X39 doesn’t rate? Oh, well, it’s an off-brand furrin’ type from Romania, a country the average wingnut doesn’t know from rhubarb anyway.
It might also be because there is no 62nd of July.

105 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:11:25pm

re: #98 Vicious Babushka

Well if the tgdn people say there was no heckling, then there was no heckling. Gotta believe these true super patriots. //

106 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:11:59pm

re: #105 Bulworth

Well if the tgdn people say there was no heckling, then there was no heckling. Gotta believe these true super patriots. //

And they sure loves them some Godwin!

107 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:12:49pm

re: #75 Kragar

Was the .223 the weapon used in Newtown? Stay classy, gun nuts

108 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:13:35pm

re: #106 Vicious Babushka

And they sure loves them some Godwin!

Wonder what that person would say if you reminded them that Hitler too loved a good union busting. I guess that means all supporters of busting unions are Nazis.//

109 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:14:01pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

ITZ LIES!1! LIES 2 MAEK GUN SHUTERS LOOK BAD!1!

Wow. Whatever makes them look like assholes, they simply wish into the cornfield.

What a racket.

110 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:14:29pm

Full Senate vote for John Kerry’s confirmation for Secretary of State occurring now:

[Link: www.c-span.org…]

111 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:14:55pm

Calling the hecklers hecklers is taking away their first and second amendment rights and bullying and twitter gulag! //

112 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:15:02pm

re: #107 Bulworth

Was the .223 the weapon used in Newtown? Stay classy, gun nuts

That is just a coincidence they assure us.

113 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:15:14pm

I don’t get the Piers Morgan derangement. What did he do to earn their wrath, more than any other TV journalist?

114 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:15:46pm

re: #86 Kragar

I remain convinced a lot of these people are a police siren away from kicking off their own personal Waco.

And prepared to call out the police so that they hear a siren…

115 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:15:47pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

I don’t get the Piers Morgan derangement. What did he do to earn their wrath, more than any other TV journalist?

I believe Morgan was really critical of the gun culture following Sandy Hook therefore he needs to be deported or something.

116 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:16:24pm

re: #114 Sol Berdinowitz

And prepared to call out the police so that they hear a siren…

Or the fire department, as the guy in upstate NY did.

117 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:17:30pm

re: #102 erik_t

Say that the increased costs to Medicare/Medicaid/SS/UI are $50b. A 10 year cost is $500b, not anywhere near $2.7t.

You’d have to be looking at an annual cost of $270b a year, which is a huge chunk of change.

118 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:17:35pm

re: #106 Vicious Babushka

Hey look, I can cherry-pick Hitler quotes, too:

“I absolutely insist on protecting private property… we must encourage private initiative”.

March 24, 1942. Cited in Hitler’s Secret Conversations. Translated by Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens. Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc. 1953. p. 294

herp derp

119 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:19:26pm

re: #118 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Hey look, I can cherry-pick Hitler quotes, too:

March 24, 1942. Cited in Hitler’s Secret Conversations. Translated by Norman Cameron and R.H. Stevens. Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc. 1953. p. 294

I’m always amused when they bring up Hitler’s vegetarianism as a means of bashing vegetarians and vegans. I mean I love a good steak and I could never go vegetarian let alone vegan but really bringing up that Hitler was one as a means of denouncing it? Maybe we should discredit Christianity because most of the slave owners before the Civil War were Christians!

120 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:19:34pm

re: #106 Vicious Babushka

And they sure loves them some Godwin!

They can’t even spell Adolf Hitler right, but I’m supposed to trust them to get an alleged quote of his correct.

Mmmmhmmmm.

121 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:20:35pm

re: #120 erik_t

They can’t even spell Adolf Hitler right, but I’m supposed to trust them to get the quote correct.

Mmmmhmmmm.

To be fair, Adolph is another way of spelling it but Adolf is how he spelled his name.

122 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:20:57pm

Translation: “Attention lobbyists, Senator for sale!”

123 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:21:17pm

re: #120 erik_t

They can’t even spell Adolf Hitler right, but I’m supposed to trust them to get the quote correct.

Mmmmhmmmm.

There was a fake Hitler quote tweeting around, something about “We have achieved gun control.” I killed it a couple of times, but I really need MOAR SILVER BULLETZ or whatever you kill undead fake quotes with.

124 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:21:18pm

re: #98 Vicious Babushka

They’re really seething over this (but BENGHAZI-GHAZI-GHAZI-STAN is still the #1 Seethe of TGDN)

So their excuse is that they were just answering his questions? Are they freaking serious? These people are unbelievable.

125 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:22:28pm

re: #104 Shiplord Kirel

What? My 7.62X39 doesn’t rate? Oh, well, it’s an off-brand furrin’ type from Romania, a country the average wingnut doesn’t know from rhubarb anyway.
It might also be because there is no 62nd of July.

I suppose they could do June 30th though (for .30-06)…

126 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:23:25pm

The Hitler was a leftist crowd always goes quiet when you bring up that outside of the Jewish people, Hitler’s biggest targets were on the left. I’m sorry but you can’t bitch at the left for promoting cultural diversity and then say we’re the same as the Nazis who were white supremacists. You just can’t do that with a straight face. Really, I’d love to see one of these revisionist dummies tell Hitler or better yet any current neo-Nazi he or they are or was on the left. They seem to think anti-capitalism= leftism, that’s not true. Right wing extremists have long tried to make capitalism and communism part of the same conspiracy.

127 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:23:29pm

re: #104 Shiplord Kirel

What? My 7.62X39 doesn’t rate? Oh, well, it’s an off-brand furrin’ type from Romania, a country the average wingnut doesn’t know from rhubarb anyway.
It might also be because there is no 62nd of July.

It’s obvious that Romans come from Romania. And they sound like pasta-eating wimps like the Italians who were led by that Moose-lini fella, who was probably some sort of secret Muslim like Obama. Which is why he hung around with Hitler.

128 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:24:43pm

re: #126 HappyWarrior

The Hitler was a leftist crowd always goes quiet when you bring up that outside of the Jewish people, Hitler’s biggest targets were on the left. I’m sorry but you can’t bitch at the left for promoting cultural diversity and then say we’re the same as the Nazis who were white supremacists. You just can’t do that with a straight face. Really, I’d love to see one of these revisionist dummies tell Hitler he was on the left.

When you kill one talking point, they will just switch to another one.

129 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:25:02pm

re: #127 Feline Fearless Leader

and Japan were a bunch of commie Buddhist granola eating wimps!

130 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:25:23pm
131 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:25:25pm

re: #128 Vicious Babushka

When you kill one talking point, they will just switch to another one.

Yeah, that’s why I don’t bother unless I absolutely have to.

132 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:25:26pm

SOCIALISM!!!!

133 Ian G.  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:26:29pm

re: #26 Kragar

Men are not at fault for sexual assaults (or at least man-on-woman sexual assaults)? Yeah, that might fly in Pakistan, not so much here.

Yet another example of how badly the nutcase Christian right isn’t that far off from the Salafists.

134 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:26:54pm

re: #128 Vicious Babushka

When you kill one talking point, they will just switch to another one.

They have paradox-absorbing crumple zones.

135 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:27:37pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

So their excuse is that they were just answering his questions? Are they freaking serious? These people are unbelievable.

Probably don’t understand the difference between an actual question and a rhetorical question.

136 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:28:09pm

re: #133 Ian G.

Men are not at fault for sexual assaults (or at least man-on-woman sexual assaults)? Yeah, that might fly in Pakistan, not so much here.

Yet another example of how badly the nutcase Christian right isn’t that far off from the Salafists.

That’s a major indication that the issue is not really religion but power and control under the excuse of religion.

137 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:29:47pm

re: #110 RadicalModerate

So far, only one “no” vote.

John Cornyn (swiftboater Republican from Texas)

138 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:30:56pm

re: #137 RadicalModerate

Ah, holding out for John Bolton, no doubt. /

139 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:32:28pm

re: #130 Vicious Babushka

Well, if they’re saying it in ALL CAPS then they must be right. /

140 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:33:17pm

I watched the NBC video of that Connecticut hearing, and the accusation that it was “deceptively edited” is just more idiotic bullshit from the Daily Caller’s head moron, “Jim Treacher.”

The unedited video has a lot of dead air. Long pauses. They edited it to remove the long pauses. End of story.

The unedited video does not make these cretins who interrupted Neil Heslin’s testimony look one bit better.

141 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:33:32pm

re: #124 Charles Johnson

The exchange:

he voice of Neil Heslin quavered frequently as he talked of his son, Jesse Lewis, who died in the massacre. “I’m here today to just hopefully get the word out that changes have to be made. I’ll tell you a little bit about Jesse. He was a boy that loved life, lived it to the fullest. His mother and I are both separated, he spent an equal amount of time with both of us.

“He was my son, he was my buddy, he was my best friend,” Heslin said, his voice breaking. “I never thought I’d be here speaking like this, asking for changes on my son’s behalf. I never thought I’d be laying him to rest. The happiest day of my life was the day he was born, he’s my only son, my only family. And the worst day of my life was the day when this happened and I buried him.”

“I ask if there’s anybody in this room that can give me one reason … why anybody … needs to have one of these assault-style weapons or military weapons or high capacity clips,” Heslin said.

“The Second Amendment shall not be infringed,” shouted several male voices in the crowd.

Senate Majority Leader Martin Looney, co-chairman of the task force subcommittee that held the hearing, ordered the crowd to refrain from responding.

Heslin continued: “We’re all entitled to our own opinion. I respect their opinions and their thoughts but I wish they’d respect mine and give it a little bit of thought and realize that it could have been their child that was in that school that day.”

When you have the chair calling for order, that’s telling you that it was heckling and out of line - and that the folks who responded did so out of line.

Heslin had the microphone and was entitled to ask rhetorical questions. The hecklers felt the need to interject.

142 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:33:52pm

re: #120 erik_t

They can’t even spell Adolf Hitler right, but I’m supposed to trust them to get an alleged quote of his correct.

Mmmmhmmmm.

This one appears to be correct. The english translation is from John Toland’s “Adolf Hitler: The Definitive Biography” written in 1976. It is a part of his May 1, 1927 speech.

On the other hand by 1929 he was saying (paraphrase) that socialism was an unfortunate word choice. It implied support of communists, since they were using the word as well but meaning something different. (end of paraphrase). Same book, by the way.

143 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:35:24pm

re: #141 lawhawk

And the chair specifically admonished the gun nuts to stop interrupting Neil Heslin’s testimony. They were completely out of order, and “heckling” is a good word for it.

144 efuseakay  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:37:35pm

re: #61 dragonfire1981

Do they know how high the French tax rates are right now? Damn.

And… IMMIGRANTS!!!!!

145 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:37:42pm

How is the day going for you?

It’s wet and glooming in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland.

146 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:39:12pm

re: #145 FemNaziBitch

How is the day going for you?

It’s wet and glooming in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland.

I iz a cat pancake today. World run me over!

147 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:39:25pm

I’m done with the gun nuts.

In future, I am just going to point out that they do believe in gun-control.

They (at least the people I know) do not think automatic firearms or flamethrowers should be available to citizens. Moving the line to semi-auto isn’t that much of a change.

148 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:40:00pm

re: #141 lawhawk

The exchange:

When you have the chair calling for order, that’s telling you that it was heckling and out of line - and that the folks who responded did so out of line.

Heslin had the microphone and was entitled to ask rhetorical questions. The hecklers felt the need to interject.

I don’t see how anybody could be a worse human being than to heckle a man who’s 6-year-old son was murdered. How somebody in that crowd who wasn’t a replacement-penis-fetishist didn’t clock one of those assholes is beyond me. Maybe I lack self-control.

149 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:40:38pm

Happy Picture!

150 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:41:34pm

re: #147 FemNaziBitch

I’m done with the gun nuts.

In future, I am just going to point out that they do believe in gun-control.

They (at least the people I know) do not think automatic firearms or flamethrowers should be available to citizens. Moving the line to semi-auto isn’t that much of a change.

Most gun nuts I’ve met think “gun control” means using both hands. And they agree with keeping guns from the mentally ill and criminals, except when they can make excuses for both. The former when they say they’ve been “treated” and the latter when they argue that non-violent felons be allowed to still own a gun.

151 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:42:37pm

re: #150 Targetpractice

Most gun nuts I’ve met think “gun control” means using both hands. And they agree with keeping guns from the mentally ill and criminals, except when they can make excuses for both. The former when they say they’ve been “treated” and the latter when they argue that non-violent felons be allowed to still own a gun.

So, they do believe in “common-sense” gun control.

152 dragonath  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:43:48pm

re: #47 RadicalModerate

Listening to the Republican reaction to immigration reform on CNN right now.
Their two interviews:
Rep. Lou Barletta (R-PA), who was quoted on Monday as saying the following:

Then Phil Kent of the Georgia Immigration Review Board just went full dogwhistle by saying that immigration reform can’t happen until we keep Muslims from immigrating into the US.

This is the kind of insanity that President Obama is having to combat for proper reform.

A little bit of background on Barletta- he was voted into one of the longest held Democratic seats in the House in the Tea Party wave.

The guy made his name as mayor of WIlkes-Barre by evicting illegals and more or less making like uncomfortable for Latinos in the town. Keep in mind- this isn’t very far away from where the hate crime murder occurred a couple of years ago.

153 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:44:03pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

And the chair specifically admonished the gun nuts to stop interrupting Neil Heslin’s testimony. They were completely out of order, and “heckling” is a good word for it.

But ‘an armed society is a polite society’, so obviously they would have been more civil if they’d been carrying more guns.

154 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:44:10pm

re: #151 FemNaziBitch

So, they do believe in “common-sense” gun control.

They believe in keeping guns from people they don’t agree with. A non-violent felon who’s black? They’d still want his ass not to have a gun.

Hell, take one of these recent “demonstrations,” some dumb jackoff walking around with a rifle, now imagine if it was a black guy or a Muslim doing the same. They’d want his ass arrested in a heartbeat.

155 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:45:13pm

re: #154 Targetpractice

Hell, take one of these recent “demonstrations,” some dumb jackoff walking around with a rifle, now imagine if it was a black guy or a Muslim doing the same. They’d want his ass arrested in a heartbeat.

To them, only non-white people may be terrifying. Obviously.

156 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:46:53pm

Common sense gun control: Paranoid morons who believe every conspiracy theory that comes down the pipe shouldn’t be allowed to get their hands on military grade weapons.

157 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:46:57pm

re: #150 Targetpractice

Most gun nuts I’ve met think “gun control” means using both hands. And they agree with keeping guns from the mentally ill and criminals, except when they can make excuses for both. The former when they say they’ve been “treated” and the latter when they argue that non-violent felons be allowed to still own a gun.

The thing that bothers me the most is that most gun traders would rather set their balls on fire than keep records of what they sold to whom, and when. Freaking out at the idea of having to maintain a list of inventory. It’s nutty.

158 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:47:55pm

re: #157 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The thing that bothers me the most is that most gun traders would rather set their balls on fire than keep records of what they sold to whom, and when. Freaking out at the idea of having to maintain a list of inventory. It’s nutty.

They do that because they live in constant fear that the government might order them to turn over those records.

159 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:47:59pm

re: #156 Kragar

Common sense gun control: Paranoid morons who believe every conspiracy theory that comes down the pipe shouldn’t be allowed to get their hands on military grade weapons.

They’re already armed and dangerous. They kill the brain cells of others every time they speak. They don’t need guns too.

160 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:48:00pm

Anyone here old enough to rememer who this is?

161 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:48:19pm

re: #157 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

most gun traders would rather set their balls on fire

that will be required in the next gun control bill

162 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:48:31pm

re: #152 dragonath

A little bit of background on Barletta- he was voted into one of the longest held Democratic seats in the House in the Tea Party wave.

The guy made his name as mayor of WIlkes-Barre by evicting illegals and more or less making like uncomfortable for Latinos in the town. Keep in mind- this isn’t very far away from where the hate crime murder occurred a couple of years ago.

Ah I thought he was a sheriff. I do remember hearing about him though.

163 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:48:43pm

re: #141 lawhawk

The exchange:


Heslin had the microphone and was entitled to ask rhetorical questions. The hecklers felt the need to interject.

“He assed a rhee-torical question and we felt compelled to ree-spownd!”

That is how it is being spun.

Listen, if these guys can believe that the massacre never happened, they have no trouble accepting the notion that there was no “heckling”.

164 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:49:00pm

re: #160 FemNaziBitch

Anyone here old enough to rememer who this is?

Is that Lucille Ball?

165 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:49:02pm

re: #160 FemNaziBitch

Anyone here old enough to rememer who this is?

i haz sum splainin to do?

166 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:49:37pm

re: #160 FemNaziBitch

Anyone here old enough to rememer who this is?

Looks like a young Lucile Ball to me.

167 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:51:30pm

re: #164 HappyWarrior

Is that Lucille Ball?

You know, regardless of if we are right or not, we just told everyone here we are old farts. :-)

168 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:51:55pm

re: #158 Targetpractice

They do that because they live in constant fear that the government might order them to turn over those records.

I’d guess they know they’re probably selling some things illegally. Better to commit a much lesser crime and not do proper paperwork because they know the DoJ etc. probably won’t be bothered worrying about a paper trail.

169 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:52:09pm

re: #164 HappyWarrior

Is that Lucille Ball?

re: #165 engineer cat

i haz sum splainin to do?

re: #166 Bubblehead II

Looks like a young Lucile Ball to me.

Yep. it’s gotta be her. Wow, what a knockout! I’ve never seen a pic of her that young.

170 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:52:23pm

re: #160 FemNaziBitch

Anyone here old enough to rememer who this is?

That Lucille Ball?

171 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:52:39pm

re: #146 Feline Fearless Leader

I iz a cat pancake today. World run me over!

I said, it’s waffle day!

172 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:52:41pm

re: #141 lawhawk

A good question for these obnoxious second amendment pinheads: Pretend for a moment that there is no 2nd amendment, and the US constitution says nothing one way or the other on the subject.

What would be the basis for arguing that a constitutional amendment should be made to protect an individual right to keep and bear arms?

Banging on about the second amendment does not answer this question.

173 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:52:57pm

I just added the NBC video of the Newtown hearing to that post. (Am I trolling the wingnuts? Could be.)

174 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:53:06pm

re: #165 engineer cat

i haz sum splainin to do?

Waaaaaah!

175 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:53:10pm

re: #167 Bubblehead II

You know, regardless of if we are right or not, we just told everyone here we are old farts. :-)

My first thought was Lucille Ball, but I’m not old enough to remember her looking like that. On the other hand, I do watch old movies.

176 gwangung  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:53:40pm

re: #158 Targetpractice

They do that because they live in constant fear that the government might order them to turn over those records.

Like, would any totalitarian tyranny actually RELY on those records?

177 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:53:51pm

re: #169 CuriousLurker

I don’t know why this made me think of you….

178 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:53:52pm

re: #171 wrenchwench

I said, it’s waffle day!

Tornado goes through, it’s then pancake day!

179 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:54:05pm

re: #168 Ghost of Tom Joad

I’d guess they know they’re probably selling some things illegally. Better to commit a much lesser crime and not do proper paperwork because they know the DoJ etc. probably won’t be bothered worrying about a paper trail.

“You sold this gun?
“Sorry, I don’t keep records of that kind of stuff.”
“This guy says you sold him the gun.”
“I sold a lot of guns that day, how was I keep track of who I sold them to?”
“He was involved in an armed robbery yesterday.”
“So what? I just sold the gun, it’s not like I knew what he was going to use it for.”

180 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:54:18pm

re: #167 Bubblehead II

You know, regardless of if we are right or not, we just told everyone here we are old farts. :-)

Nah, I just affirmed that I know more than most people my age. I wasn’t even two when Lucy passed.

181 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:54:32pm

The final vote to confirm John Kerry for Secretary of State was 94-3.

The three “no” votes:

John Cornyn (R-TX)
Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Jim Inhofe (R-OK)

I don’t want Texas to secede, but I would have no problem whatsoever about kicking these nutcases out. They are a damned embarrassment to the nation.

182 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:54:38pm

re: #176 gwangung

Like, would any totalitarian tyranny actually RELY on those records?

They did in Red Dawn!!!

183 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:55:00pm

re: #175 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

My first thought was Lucille Ball, but I’m not old enough to remember her looking like that. On the other hand, I do watch old movies.

Glamor shot. 99% of folks just remember her from the ILL show which didn’t exactly dress her up glamorously.

184 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:55:10pm

re: #177 wrenchwench

I don’t know why this made me think of you….

I can’t imagine. Thanks! Gonna go read it…

185 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:55:27pm

re: #169 CuriousLurker

re: #165 engineer cat

re: #166 Bubblehead II

Yep. it’s gotta be her. Wow, what a knockout! I’ve never seen a pic of her that young.

you should see her in the movies she made in the mid 1930s where she still has some baby fat

186 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:57:25pm

re: #180 HappyWarrior

Nah, I just affirmed that I know more than most people my age. I wasn’t even two when Lucy passed.

/// Damn whipper snapper. GET OFF MT LAWN!

187 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:57:27pm

Actually thinking about it, I think I know how I recognized her. In the WWII magazine I worked for, one of the features was pin up of the month and they’d show a famous actress or singer. Lucy was one of them. Anyhow, she was pretty. They say gentlemen prefer blondes but this guy prefers brunettes and red heads.

188 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:57:33pm

re: #183 Ghost of Tom Joad

Glamor shot. 99% of folks just remember her from the ILL show which didn’t exactly dress her up glamorously.

Most of the old movies were in B&W. She was so glamorous that without the red hair, most of us wouldn’t recognize her.

189 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:58:26pm

re: #181 RadicalModerate

The final vote to confirm John Kerry for Secretary of State was 94-3.

The three “no” votes:

John Cornyn (R-TX)
Ted Cruz (R-TX)
Jim Inhofe (R-OK)

I don’t want Texas to secede, but I would have no problem whatsoever about kicking these nutcases out. They are a damned embarrassment to the nation.

I’m all for letting Texas secede.

190 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:58:40pm
191 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:58:47pm

BREAKING: Virginia Senate Committee Overwhelmingly Kills Electoral Vote Rigging Scheme

ProgressVirginia reported Tuesday afternoon that the Virginia Senate’s Privileges and Elections Committee killed Sen. Charles “Bill” Carrico Sr.’s electoral college-rigging bill, despite an offer by Carrico to amend the bill to award electors in proportion to the state’s popular vote. The vote was 11-4 against the bill, although it will not be official until the close of the committee meeting.

192 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:58:59pm

That didn’t take long…

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

193 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:59:01pm

re: #188 FemNaziBitch

Most of the old movies were in B&W. She was so glamorous that without the red hair, most of us wouldn’t recognize her.

The eyes for me. I’m drawn to eyes.

194 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 1:59:27pm

re: #189 FemNaziBitch

I’m all for letting Texas secede.

I’m only for it if they become a state in Mexico.

195 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:00:25pm

re: #194 wrenchwench

I’m only for it if they become a state in Mexico.

Nah, I wanna watch them try to make it on their own in the modern world.

196 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:00:47pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

That didn’t take long…

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Another asshole from 2004.

197 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:01:04pm

Direct link to trolled wingnut, previously seen defending Tom Tancredo: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

198 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:01:46pm

re: #185 engineer cat

you should see her in the movies she made in the mid 1930s where she still has some baby fat

She was a co-star in a Marx Bros. film as well. “Room Service” in 1938. I remember seeing that on TCM at some point and noticed that she was in it.

199 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:02:01pm

re: #191 Kragar

BREAKING: Virginia Senate Committee Overwhelmingly Kills Electoral Vote Rigging Scheme

Think what probably killed it was Cuccinelli coming out against it and McDonnell voicing his disagreement with it. Makes it easier to kill it and move on as if it was the work of one moron.

200 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:02:07pm

re: #191 Kragar

BREAKING: Virginia Senate Committee Overwhelmingly Kills Electoral Vote Rigging Scheme

It was dead when McDonnell who no doubt knows this would bite him in the ass big time if he runs for president much like the vaginal ultrasound poo-pooed it. Still relieved. There’s no reason at all why Mitt Romney should have gotten 2/3’s of this state’s EV when he lost it by a pretty decent margin last November.

201 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:02:20pm

re: #189 FemNaziBitch

I’m all for letting Texas secede.

only if us californians get to secede as the bear flag republic at the same time

got to keep the balance of the slave states and the free states yanno

202 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:02:51pm

re: #199 Targetpractice

Think what probably killed it was Cuccinelli coming out against it and McDonnell voicing his disagreement with it. Makes it easier to kill it and move on as if it was the work of one moron.

Wow I didn’t know that Cuccinelli had come out against it. I mean granted, that was probably because he knows he was a dead fish out of water if he ran supporting it but still this is a huge relief.

203 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:03:27pm

Jindal unveils next phase of his bold new “Fuck the Poor” budget
Louisiana Will Eliminate Health Benefits For HIV Patients, Poor Children, And First Time Moms This Week

Last week, Louisiana’s poor and terminally ill residents won a surprising victory when Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) announced that his state would not stop providing hospice care to its Medicaid beneficiaries. Unfortunately, that’s about the only piece of good news for low-income Louisianans’ health coverage, as the state is still set to implement massive cuts for Medicaid programs that “provide behavioral health services for at-risk children, offer case management visits for low-income HIV patients and pay for at-home visits by nurses who teach poor, first-time mothers how to care for their newborns” this Friday.

While Jindal administration officials argue that the cuts could be mitigated by Medicare and private managed care programs, the reality is that many of these specialty services are simply unavailable — or unaffordable — outside of Medicaid:

204 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:03:49pm

Here is another guess who?, normally scene only in B&W.

205 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:03:54pm

re: #198 Feline Fearless Leader

She was a co-star in a Marx Bros. film as well. “Room Service” in 1938. I remember seeing that on TCM at some point and noticed that she was in it.

iirc molly haskall had her and roz russell, the two smartest actresses on the lot (mgm i guess) dishing it up at lunchtime while everybody else sat around with their mouths hanging open

206 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:04:14pm

re: #189 FemNaziBitch

I’m all for letting Texas secede.

I’m not. I live here.

OTOH, if you let everything Austin, San Antonio, and all points south stay with the United States, I’d be more than happy to let the rednecks in East and West Texas secede to their heart’s content.

207 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:04:28pm

re: #203 Kragar

Jindal unveils next phase of his bold new “Fuck the Poor” budget
Louisiana Will Eliminate Health Benefits For HIV Patients, Poor Children, And First Time Moms This Week

Lovely. And he probably still won’t be “conservative enough” for some of the nutcases.

208 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:04:28pm

re: #201 engineer cat

only if us californians get to secede as the bear flag republic at the same time

got to keep the balance of the slave states and the free states yanno

Doesn’t California have a big issue with having to import electrical power from other states? So how soon after independence do they tear everything down for power, or invade Nevada and Arizona?

209 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:05:31pm

re: #208 Feline Fearless Leader

Doesn’t California have a big issue with having to import electrical power from other states? So how soon after independence do they tear everything down for power, or invade Nevada and Arizona?

Don’t underestimate the military power of the NCR.

210 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:06:51pm

re: #206 Lidane

I’m not. I live here.

OTOH, if you let everything Austin, San Antonio and all points south stay with the United States, I’d be more than happy to let the rednecks in East and West Texas secede to their heart’s content.

Why not just take a northern chunk, merge it into Oklahoma to make a rectangular state, and then let that become the raging hole of mutual antagonism that can then suck all the other unhappy folk in?
//

211 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:08:06pm

re: #206 Lidane

I’m not. I live here.

OTOH, if you let everything Austin, San Antonio, and all points south stay with the United States, I’d be more than happy to let the rednecks in East and West Texas secede to their heart’s content.

NM will take El Paso.

212 efuseakay  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:10:19pm

Kerry confirmed as next SOS by the Senate. 94-3. Wonder who the 3 are…

213 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:11:02pm

re: #212 efuseakay

Kerry confirmed as next SOS by the Senate. 94-3. Wonder who the 3 are…

Cornyn, Inhofe, and Cruz as mentioned above. I’m surprised it was that overwhelming but I guess they’re saving their outrages for Hagel. I mean it will be high theater. Former Republican senator.

214 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:11:56pm

re: #213 HappyWarrior

Cornyn, Inhofe, and Cruz as mentioned above. I’m surprised it was that overwhelming but I guess they’re saving their outrages for Hagel.

Think that’s the case, they knew there was no real point to opposing Kerry at this point. Save all the bile for Hagel’s hearing.

215 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:12:42pm

re: #214 Targetpractice

Think that’s the case, they knew there was no real point to opposing Kerry at this point. Save all the bile for Hagel’s hearing.

It’s going to be interesting to see all the Republican senators who once praised Hagel claim he’s this rabid Anti-Semite.

216 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:12:53pm

re: #195 FemNaziBitch

Nah, I wanna watch them try to make it on their own in the modern world.

Yeah, I’ve run a lot of simulations on what happens if Texas secedes. There are a lot of assumptions that need decided. For example there are a lot of international companies with headquarters or major regional offices in Texas. Will they stay? That, in the end, is the make or break for the state.

The federal government will have to pull out. No choice. That includes the border patrol, that much maligned agency. Texas suddenly becomes a factor in the Mexican Cartel Wars. Oh, especially with the army, navy, and air force withdrawing. The question of who owns the various materiel the national guard uses becomes significant.

A truly large concern for the US would be the various nuclear facilities in Texas. In particular Pantex, near Amarillo, which is at this time the only (known) nuclear assembly/disassembly facility in the US. Yeah, that should raise some hackles.

Texas is on the edge of declaring an emergency and seeking federal assistance due to the drought. It’s a pretty solid guarantee that the state can’t produce enough food to feed its citizens, much less its residents.

Texas produces oil. More important for its economic future is it refines oil. It can produce and refine enough for its needs at this time. It can refine enough for income - provided it can secure its ports and facilities from terrorists and criminals.

It would be a massive headache for everyone, and in the end I think Texas would become a third world country or return to the US within a generation. But that’s not a certainty, and a decent tweak of some assumptions makes Texas a small but significant player - like Switzerland or Denmark.

217 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:15:16pm

re: #211 wrenchwench

NM will take El Paso.

You mean it’s not part of New Mexico already?

////

218 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:16:38pm

re: #216 kirkspencer

Yeah, I’ve run a lot of simulations on what happens if Texas secedes. There are a lot of assumptions that need decided. For example there are a lot of international companies with headquarters or major regional offices in Texas. Will they stay? That, in the end, is the make or break for the state.

The federal government will have to pull out. No choice. That includes the border patrol, that much maligned agency. Texas suddenly becomes a factor in the Mexican Cartel Wars. Oh, especially with the army, navy, and air force withdrawing. The question of who owns the various materiel the national guard uses becomes significant.

A truly large concern for the US would be the various nuclear facilities in Texas. In particular Pantex, near Amarillo, which is at this time the only (known) nuclear assembly/disassembly facility in the US. Yeah, that should raise some hackles.

Texas is on the edge of declaring an emergency and seeking federal assistance due to the drought. It’s a pretty solid guarantee that the state can’t produce enough food to feed its citizens, much less its residents.

Texas produces oil. More important for its economic future is it refines oil. It can produce and refine enough for its needs at this time. It can refine enough for income - provided it can secure its ports and facilities from terrorists and criminals.

It would be a massive headache for everyone, and in the end I think Texas would become a third world country or return to the US within a generation. But that’s not a certainty, and a decent tweak of some assumptions makes Texas a small but significant player - like Switzerland or Denmark.

I think it would degrade rather quickly into (I forget the term) the Sterotypical South American Feudal State. Lord of Estates ruling their slaves and serfs, basically, all delineated by skin color.

219 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:17:10pm

re: #216 kirkspencer

Producing and refining oil is a source of income if you can find a steady customer for what you produce and a supplier for what you can’t. Texas would probably face a lot of countries who, seeing it isolated from the US proper, would take advantage of its much reduced strength to renegotiate things in their favor.

220 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:17:21pm

Fun and exciting regular expression of the day:

<?php
$text = preg_replace('/(?:\r\n|\r(?!\n)|(?!<\r)\n){2,}/s', "\n\n", $text);
?>
221 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:17:51pm

re: #216 kirkspencer

Yeah, I’ve run a lot of simulations on what happens if Texas secedes. There are a lot of assumptions that need decided. For example there are a lot of international companies with headquarters or major regional offices in Texas. Will they stay? That, in the end, is the make or break for the state.

The federal government will have to pull out. No choice. That includes the border patrol, that much maligned agency. Texas suddenly becomes a factor in the Mexican Cartel Wars. Oh, especially with the army, navy, and air force withdrawing. The question of who owns the various materiel the national guard uses becomes significant.

A truly large concern for the US would be the various nuclear facilities in Texas. In particular Pantex, near Amarillo, which is at this time the only (known) nuclear assembly/disassembly facility in the US. Yeah, that should raise some hackles.

Texas is on the edge of declaring an emergency and seeking federal assistance due to the drought. It’s a pretty solid guarantee that the state can’t produce enough food to feed its citizens, much less its residents.

Texas produces oil. More important for its economic future is it refines oil. It can produce and refine enough for its needs at this time. It can refine enough for income - provided it can secure its ports and facilities from terrorists and criminals.

It would be a massive headache for everyone, and in the end I think Texas would become a third world country or return to the US within a generation. But that’s not a certainty, and a decent tweak of some assumptions makes Texas a small but significant player - like Switzerland or Denmark.

A lot would also depend on the relationship with the US. Houston is on the Gulf, but a lot of the rest of the state is in the hinterlands close to the “new” US border. And on rivers that run through US territory, so movements there will need some sort of relationship. Also creates a lot of border to patrol and handle with whatever sudden expansion the state-become-national government enacts.

In the short run there would probably be a lot of smuggling as there would be some sort of imbalance regarding goods and/or taxes that someone would try to exploit.

222 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:17:53pm

re: #212 efuseakay

Kerry confirmed as next SOS by the Senate.

Herp! Derp! Eleventy!

223 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:18:27pm

3 in 10 Americans think God determines Super Bowl outcome

The Public Religion Research Institute found that 27 percent of Americans believe God plays a role in determining which teams wins sports events. A majority — or 53 percent — also agree that God rewards believing athletes with success and good health.

“In an era where professional sports are driven by dollars and statistics, significant numbers of Americans see a divine hand at play,” said Robert P. Jones, PRRI’s chief executive.

Image: Jesus_facepalm.jpg

224 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:18:45pm

re: #220 Charles Johnson

Fun and exciting regular expression of the day:

[Embedded content]

Voodoo.

225 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:19:00pm

re: #222 Lidane

Its a yuck a minute.

226 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:19:07pm

re: #218 FemNaziBitch

I think it would degrade rather quickly into (I forget the term) the Sterotypical South American Feudal State. Lord of Estates ruling their slaves and serfs, basically, all delineated by skin color.

Ha! You don’t think there will be millions of white serfs?

The poors are the poors; I don’t think the power brokers really give a damn which is which. The serfs shall bicker amongst themselves; the bosses above will live gilded lives of excess and care not at all on whose back that gilding is borne.

227 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:19:20pm

re: #222 Lidane

And yet I bet he happily supported Romney-Ryan and defended the 47% comments as “truth that needed to be heard.”

228 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:20:18pm

re: #226 erik_t

Ha! You don’t think there will be millions of white serfs?

The poors are the poors; I don’t think the power brokers really give a damn which is which. The serfs shall bicker amongst themselves; the bosses above will live gilded lives of excess and care not at all on whose back that gilding is borne.

Well, the whites would get to vote.

229 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:20:43pm

re: #224 CuriousLurker

Voodoo.

It searches a text string for any combination of 2 or more carriage return/line feed characters, and replaces them with two standard Unix line feeds.

230 iossarian  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:21:03pm

re: #220 Charles Johnson

Fun and exciting regular expression of the day:

[Embedded content]

Fun with multiple line breaks and “carriage returns”.

231 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:21:10pm

re: #220 Charles Johnson

Fun and exciting regular expression of the day:

[Embedded content]

Ooh, the pretty colors didn’t show up in the Spy.

232 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:21:23pm

re: #223 Kragar

3 in 10 Americans think God determines Super Bowl outcome

Image: Jesus_facepalm.jpg

So now I know why the Cubs haven’t won jack shit. Their players and management don’t pray enough.// Seriously people?

233 jaunte  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:21:27pm

Texas isn’t going anywhere.

Federal Aid to State Budget

The chart below represents how much of the state’s budget comes from the federal government. The number is the corresponding ranking in relation to the rest of the nation (if #1, the state receives the highest percentage of federal funding in the nation):

Texas
2008 33.94% (#9)
2009 36.9% (#10)
2010 41.48% (#11)
2011 39.98% (#11)

Figures are calculated by dividing each state’s intergovernmental revenue into its general revenue. Data is available at in U.S. Census.

[Link: sunshinereview.org…]

234 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:21:57pm

re: #228 FemNaziBitch

Well, the whites would get to vote.

and carry firearms.

235 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:22:09pm

re: #228 FemNaziBitch

Well, the whites would get to vote.

I see little guarantee that an actual democracy would survive the breakaway. The less wealthy whites might get to “vote”, but I think it’d be better to keep the two groups (non-wealthy whites and non-wealthy non-whites) squabbling on an ostensibly even footing, so that they don’t particularly notice their actual enemy.

236 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:22:15pm

re: #230 iossarian

Fun with multiple line breaks and “carriage returns”.

Do you have to have your receipt to return a carriage?

237 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:22:18pm

re: #233 jaunte

Texas isn’t going anywhere.

Funny how that’s gone up in the Obama years when Ricky Perry has stepped up his anti federal derp the most.

238 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:22:33pm

re: #229 Charles Johnson

It searches a text string for any combination of 2 or more carriage return/line feed characters, and replaces them with two standard Unix line feeds.

[Link: xkcd.com…]

239 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:24:12pm

re: #235 erik_t

I see little guarantee that an actual democracy would survive the breakaway. The less wealthy whites might get to “vote”, but I think it’d be better to keep the two groups (non-wealthy whites and non-wealthy non-whites) squabbling on an ostensibly even footing, so that they don’t particularly notice their actual enemy.

It would be a democracy as we think of in colonial terms: White, landowning males would be allowed a vote, perhaps proportional to how much land they own. There would be “concessions” to the need to seem ostensibly democratic by allowing some non-landowners to vote, but the vast majority would go without representation on the grounds that they “have no skin in the game.”

240 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:24:57pm

re: #239 Targetpractice

It would be a democracy as we think of in colonial terms: White, landowning males would be allowed a vote, perhaps proportional to how much land they own. There would be “concessions” to the need to seem ostensibly democratic by allowing some non-landowners to vote, but the vast majority would go without representation on the grounds that they “have no skin in the game.”

Or you’d tell them they’re voting but just ignore them. Easy enough, they already don’t fucking believe in math.

241 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:26:00pm

re: #238 Feline Fearless Leader

[Link: xkcd.com…]

Or: [Link: xkcd.com…]

242 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:26:04pm

re: #239 Targetpractice

It would be a democracy as we think of in colonial terms: White, landowning males would be allowed a vote, perhaps proportional to how much land they own. There would be “concessions” to the need to seem ostensibly democratic by allowing some non-landowners to vote, but the vast majority would go without representation on the grounds that they “have no skin in the game.”

You also realize that this would be the answer to Jerry Jones being able to get the Cowboys to win another national championship in his lifetime!
//

243 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:26:07pm

re: #218 FemNaziBitch

re: #219 Targetpractice

re: #221 Feline Fearless Leader

As I said, it depends on a lot of assumptions some of which are predictable and some of which are not.

244 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:26:09pm

re: #233 jaunte

hmmm

How does the GOP think a Smaller Federal Government would work exactly?

245 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:27:03pm

]re: #221 Feline Fearless Leader

Chinese National Offshore Oil Corporation owns some natural gas deposits in South Texas. Due to some of Rick Perry’s bullshit, there’s a toll road owned and operated by a Spanish company, Cintra. So maybe there would be six flags over “Texas” again after all.

246 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:28:22pm

Fischer: ‘Big Gay’ Will Cause Your Daughters ‘To Be Sent Into Combat to Die’

On Focal Point today, Fischer drew a direct line between “Big Gay” and women in combat. “Malicious” and “sinister” gay rights activists, he claims, are “trying to destroy the military,” which will ultimately mean “they’re going to have a tough time filling their ranks with qualified soldiers. So they’re going to have to go to the draft, and that means your daughters are going to be pulled into the draft and they could be sent into combat to die, whether they want to do it or not, because of Big Gay.”

Because in the past, brave men like Bryan Fischer would serve and.. oh wait, he never served? Never enlisted back in the days when only manly men were allowed to serve? And all his dire predictions that the military would utterly collapse when homosexuals were allowed to serve didn’t come true either?

Its almost as if Bryan Fischer is completely full of shit. But how is that even possible considering how many GOP stalwarts are willing to kiss his ass on the radio on a regular basis?

247 jaunte  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:28:24pm

re: #244 FemNaziBitch

I don’t think they’re really serious about anything but regaining power, and eliminating any social safety net that isn’t private charity.

248 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:28:31pm

We hate the federal government. Oh federal money, thank you! Now re-elect me because I got you aid!

249 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:28:39pm

re: #245 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

]

Chinese National Offshore Oil Corporation owns some natural gas deposits in South Texas. Due to some of Rick Perry’s bullshit, there’s a toll road owned and operated by a Spanish company, Cintra. So maybe there would be six flags over “Texas” again after all.

Maybe someone sent Perry a copy of _Snow Crash_ and he just didn’t get it.

250 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:28:56pm

re: #229 Charles Johnson

It searches a text string for any combination of 2 or more carriage return/line feed characters, and replaces them with two standard Unix line feeds.

Good one to know, thanks. Dealing with regex always makes me want to curl up into a fetal position and whimper.

251 jaunte  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:29:04pm

Texas has received $9.9 billion in federal stimulus funding.

253 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:30:10pm

re: #248 HappyWarrior

We hate the federal government. Oh federal money, thank you! Now re-elect me because I got you aid!

“Spend the money on health and public services or give it to energy companies and use the change to organize a prayer rally? Hmmm.

LETS GET MORE JESUS UP IN THIS BITCH!”

254 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:32:39pm

re: #252 Bubblehead II

The Ravens are soooooooo screwed then.

Baltimore Ravens LB Ayanbadejo, other NFL players support gay marriage

I was really glad to see how vocal he’s been about this issue. The way the one Maryland state legislator flipped his shit on it was hilarious. Really, football could use more guys like him and Chris Kluwe of the Vikings showing that just because you’re a jock doesn’t mean you’re a bigot.

255 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:32:57pm

Top Conservatives Run PAC That Funded White Nationalists

Two prominent conservative movement officials who hold leadership positions for several right-wing groups—Ron Robinson and James B. Taylor—run a political action committee that donated thousands of dollars to a white nationalist organization, according to public records. And for several years Taylor was vice president of another white nationalist organization.

Robinson and Taylor are each board members of Young America’s Foundation (YAF), which cofounded the annual Conservative Political Action Conference and runs the conservative youth group Young Americans for Freedom. (YAF owns and manages the Ronald Reagan Ranch, trains conservative journalists, and calls itself “the principle outreach organization of the Conservative Movement.”) And Robinson, YAF’s president, is on the board of two other conservative groups: Citizens United, which brought the landmark Supreme Court case of the same name, and the American Conservative Union, which operates CPAC.

With these positions, Robinson and Taylor are at the center of mainstream conservative infrastructure. But each also sits on the three-person board of America’s PAC, a far-right outfit that in 2004 gave $5,000 to the Charles Martel Society, a white nationalist group, according to the PAC’s filing with the Federal Election Commission. Taylor, YAF’s former executive director and a current board member, founded America’s PAC in 1983. Both his and Robinson’s names appear on America’s PAC letterhead before and after the donation to the Martel Society. Since 2004, America’s PAC has raised and spent over $5 million, giving donations to dozens of Republican candidates.

256 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:33:12pm

re: #246 Kragar

Fischer: ‘Big Gay’ Will Cause Your Daughters ‘To Be Sent Into Combat to Die’

Because if there’s any sexuality that’s represented as Big Sex, it’s teh gayz. I mean, look at all of the institutional support they get from, say, ancient world-wide filthy-rich organizations like the Catholic Church!

More prosaically, I defy anyone to attempt to use ‘Big Gay’ in a serious sentence without giggling.

It can’t be done.

257 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:33:29pm

re: #255 Kragar

Top Conservatives Run PAC That Funded White Nationalists

No real shock after reading about how Tony Perkins got his mailing list and whom from.

258 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:34:21pm
Because in the past, brave men like Bryan Fischer would serve and.. oh wait, he never served? Never enlisted back in the days when only manly men were allowed to serve? And all his dire predictions that the military would utterly collapse when homosexuals were allowed to serve didn’t come true either?

Its almost as if Bryan Fischer is completely full of shit.

May this comment be forever updinged.

259 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:34:30pm

re: #256 erik_t

Because if there’s any sexuality that’s represented as Big Sex, it’s teh gayz. I mean, look at all of the institutional support they get from, say, ancient world-wide filthy-rich organizations like the Catholic Church!

More prosaically, I defy anyone to attempt to use ‘Big Gay’ in a serious sentence without giggling.

It can’t be done.

Yeah “Big Gay” is just as funny as them talking about “teabagging” with no sense of the sexual meaning of the word. BIG GAY!

260 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:35:35pm

re: #254 HappyWarrior

I was really glad to see how vocal he’s been about this issue. The way the one Maryland state legislator flipped his shit on it was hilarious. Really, football could use more guys like him and Chris Kluwe of the Vikings showing that just because you’re a jock doesn’t mean you’re a bigot.

Yep.

261 TedStriker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:35:56pm

It’s official: John Kerry confirmed by the Senate to succeed Hillary Clinton as SoS.

[Link: www.tennessean.com…]

262 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:36:59pm

re: #261 TedStriker

It’s official: John Kerry confirmed to succeed Hillary Clinton as SoS.

[Link: www.tennessean.com…]

“THEY DISTRACTED US BY TALKING ABOUT GUNS AND THEY SNUCK KERRY IN, THOSE BASTARDS!”

Coming soon to TGDN

263 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:38:06pm

Realtime Twitter activity. Pretty.

264 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:38:19pm

Perry looking highly vulnerable

Texas voters- even Republicans- have had enough of Rick Perry.

PPP’s newest poll finds that only 31% of voters think Perry should seek reelection next year, compared to 62% who think it’s time for him to step aside. He’s among the most unpopular Governors in the country, with only 41% of voters approving of him to 54% who disapprove.

Perry could face great peril in a primary challenge next year. Only 41% of GOP primary voters want him to be their candidate again, compared to 47% who think it’s time for someone else. And in a head to head match up with Attorney General Greg Abbott, Perry leads by only a 41/38 margin. What makes those numbers particularly worrisome for Perry is that Abbott only has 59% name recognition at this point with primary voters. Among voters who are familiar with Abbott- whether they like him or not- he leads Perry 55/33. That suggests the potential for things to get worse for Perry if Abbott does indeed go forward with a bid.

265 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:39:07pm

re: #247 jaunte

I don’t think they’re really serious about anything but regaining power, and eliminating any social safety net that isn’t private charity.

Oh, of course not, they just want control of the money.

266 erik_t  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:39:25pm

re: #264 Kragar

Perry looking highly vulnerable

Probably insufficiently conservative.

/honestly not sure if /

267 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:40:09pm

re: #266 erik_t

Probably insufficiently conservative.

/honestly not sure if /

Ha, recall the debates. One of the few issues Perry wasn’t totally batshit on was immigrant and Romney outwinged him on that.

268 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:40:18pm

re: #264 Kragar

Perry looking highly vulnerable

Nothing would please me more than to see Goodhair’s presidential ambitions snuffed out by being found “insufficiently conservative” before ‘16.

269 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:40:29pm

re: #264 Kragar

Seems like he’s been governor there forever. I’m sure the Free Market will welcome his entrepreneurial capitalistic spirit or whatever.

270 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:41:23pm

re: #267 HappyWarrior

Ha, recall the debates. One of the few issues Perry wasn’t totally batshit on was immigrant and Romney outwinged him on that.

That was really the beginning of the end for him. The “Uh…” moment was the final nail in the coffin, but he seriously lost the wingnuts when he declared out loud that you can’t just deport all the illegals.

271 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:41:33pm

BTW Lizards. For those of you discussing a Texas secession.

I have yet to see anything about a potential mass exodus of not only people, but businesses that would not want to remain in that State once it left the Union and the effects it would have on the population and economy.

272 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:42:26pm

re: #270 Targetpractice

That was really the beginning of the end for him. The “Uh…” moment was the final nail in the coffin, but he seriously lost the wingnuts when he declared out loud that you can’t just deport all the illegals.

Did he do that before or after he had that really odd moment when it seemed like he was in a drunken stupor in Iowa? That was just bizarre. It was there I could see why people said that George W. Bush copied his mannerisms from Perry.

273 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:44:23pm

Time for Perry to get off the gubmit dole and go out and get a real job. not sure if /

274 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:44:23pm

re: #233 jaunte

Texas isn’t going anywhere.

EXACTLY.

No matter how many whiny rednecks complain about ZOMG BLACK PREZNIT, this state will never secede. We depend on the feds for almost half our budget.

Texas would become a Third World country inside of a deacde the moment they leave the US, especially once the military and all the federal offices pull out and all these morons realize their homes and portfolios are suddenly worthless because they’re no longer dealing in American dollars.

275 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:44:44pm

re: #263 CuriousLurker

Realtime Twitter activity. Pretty.

That is AWESOME!

276 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:44:52pm

re: #271 Bubblehead II

BTW Lizards. For those of you discussing a Texas secession.

I have yet to see anything about a potential mass exodus of not only people, but businesses that would not want to remain in that State once it left the Union and the effects it would have on the population and economy.

That would be because you missed kirkspencer’s comment.

For example there are a lot of international companies with headquarters or major regional offices in Texas. Will they stay? That, in the end, is the make or break for the state.

277 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:45:56pm

Perry should save his money and just pray extra hard to be reelected, because that is how things really get done.

278 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:46:09pm

The best thing to hope for Texas and it probably will happen is that it will become a purple state. I know, I know, sounds nuts but I remember my government teacher thinking I was nuts to think Virginia would start trending Democratic. I mean granted that was probably because I thought 2004 would be close when it wasn’t but Obama has won the state convincingly in both his wins.

279 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:48:26pm

And like clockwork, Rubio is “concerned” about Obama’s proposals:

Rubio ‘Concerned’ By Obama’s Immigration Proposal

The fight that seems to be forming is going to be over “enforcement,” namely the GOP is going to insist that border state governors have a veto on whether or not the border is sufficiently secured, and Democrats are going to insist that enforcement is not used to block a path to citizenship.

280 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:48:34pm

Texas Public School Bible Courses: Christian Nationalism and Phony Quotations

Students in some Texas public school Bible courses learn that the Founding Fathers were largely orthodox Protestant Christians who intended for the United States to be a distinctively Christian nation with laws and a form of government based on the Bible. Countless historians and other scholars have shown how such claims are distortions, but those distortions are core beliefs among ideologues on the religious right. The Texas Freedom Network Education Fund’s new report, Reading, Writing & Religion II: Texas Public School Bible Courses in 2011-12 by Prof. Mark Chancey at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, documents one prominent way such courses promote this ideological perspective: “proof by sound bite.” From the report:

“The most common technique for making such arguments is to string together quotations lauding the Bible, Christianity or religion in general from political philosophers, historic documents, the Founding Fathers and other famous Americans. These quotations are typically cited in a completely decontextualized manner, almost as if they are biblical proof texts with self-evident meanings. Fake quotes never actually uttered by the speaker to whom they are attributed are cited side by side with legitimate ones. Even authentic quotes are sometimes presented in such a way as to misrepresent the views of their sources, and no quotes that would support alternative viewpoints are discussed or acknowledged.”

All of those techniques are troubling, of course. But perhaps the most astonishing is the presentation of phony quotations in curriculum materials. For example, consider these quotations provided in materials used in a number of school districts:

“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but the gospel of Jesus Christ.” (attributed to Patrick Henry)

“The whole inspiration of our civilization springs from the teachings of Christ and the lessons of the prophets. To read the Bible for these fundamentals is a necessity of American life.” (attributed to Herbert Hoover)

“The Bible is the source of liberty.” (attributed to Thomas Jefferson)

281 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:49:27pm

re: #276 wrenchwench

That would be because you missed kirkspencer’s comment.

O.K. That covers the companies. What about the general population?

282 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:51:22pm

re: #275 Vicious Babushka

That is AWESOME!

Yeah, it’s really neat. The longer you let it run, the more the tweet light up the map. Europe has been consistently staying a few hundred tweets ahead of us since I started watching. It’s the middle of the night over there—wonder what they’re doing…

283 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:53:24pm

Why isn’t this obvious to everyone?

284 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:54:15pm

re: #169 CuriousLurker

re: #165 engineer cat

re: #166 Bubblehead II

Yep. it’s gotta be her. Wow, what a knockout! I’ve never seen a pic of her that young.

Lucy was a gorgeous woman. Her comedic talents got more shine than her beauty.

285 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:54:22pm

Fucking hell

Senile old fart shoots 22 year old in the head for the crime of pulling into his drive way

Rodrigo Diaz, 22, was driving around with his girlfriend and two friends when he pulled into a driveway, thinking they had arrived at another friend’s house, his brother says. But instead he pulled into the driveway of Phillip Sailors, 69, who thought his home was being robbed, his lawyer says. Sailors then shot Diaz, according to the police report, citing what Sailors told officers at the scene. Diaz later died after surgery.

“Basically, what happened is they were looking for one of my brother’s girlfriend’s friends,” says his brother David E. Diaz-Valencia, 23. “The guy came outside and my brother’s girlfriend said he was screaming, ‘Get off my property!’ and he shot into the air. My brother was backing out fast because he was scared and he rolled down the window to say he was sorry and he was not doing anything wrong. Then the guy shot him in his head.”

286 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:55:42pm

re: #285 Kragar

I saw that.

There really isn’t anything I can say to comment that I dont’ think is obvious to any sane person who might read that.

I wouldn’t know where to begin.

287 stabby  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:56:23pm

What a long damn thread. I’ve been at this for a while and I’ve only read half of it.

So far the mistakes about Gangnam style are bringing me near a headache.

Also, today I learned that even if wingnut-speak has as many mistakes as lolcat-speak, it isn’t as cute.

288 jaunte  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:56:25pm

Wow. My partner just came in to tell me one of our clients was just murdered, shot by her husband.

289 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:56:48pm

re: #280 Kragar

Behind the scenes at the Texas State Board of Education

Totally legitimate real picture, not Photoshopped or anything.

290 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:57:33pm

re: #289 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

Behind the scenes at the Texas State Board of Education

Totally legitimate real picture, not Photoshopped or anything.

I’m impressed you were able to say that with a straight face.

291 stabby  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:58:09pm

lol-wingnut

invisble n*****!

292 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:58:13pm

re: #288 jaunte

Wow. My partner just came in to tell me one of our clients was just murdered, shot by her husband.

Bloody fucking hell.

293 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 2:58:52pm

re: #288 jaunte

Wow. My partner just came in to tell me one of our clients was just murdered, shot by her husband.

That’s awful, sorry to hear it. *sigh*

294 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:01:42pm

re: #271 Bubblehead II

BTW Lizards. For those of you discussing a Texas secession.

I have yet to see anything about a potential mass exodus of not only people, but businesses that would not want to remain in that State once it left the Union and the effects it would have on the population and economy.

Meh. Sarah Palin has a far better shot at winning the Presidency than Texas has of seceding. It’s just not going to happen. You bet there would be a mass exodus. Most Texans are happy to be Americans.

295 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:02:23pm

re: #288 jaunte

Wow. My partner just came in to tell me one of our clients was just murdered, shot by her husband.

Oh how awful. So sorry to hear of that!

296 stabby  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:02:26pm

Guns are more likely to be used to shoot a family member than to threaten a robber, aren’t they?

That should be quantified.

297 gwangung  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:03:58pm

re: #296 stabby

Guns are more likely to be used to shoot a family member than to threaten a robber, aren’t they?

That should be quantified.

That’s against NRA policy.

298 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:05:02pm

Had a distant relative (aunt’s by marriage great aunt) who at the age of 75, took a shotgun, shot her husband of 50 years in bed while he slept, wrapped him in a sheet and stuffed him in the basement, then went about her daily routine. They lived in the country, no one around for miles to hear the shot.

A few weeks later, neighbors wondering why they hadn’t seen him went to the house to ask about him. “Oh, I shot the son of a bitch. I had finally taken enough of his shit.”

Courts put her in an institution IIRC.

299 Skeetghazi  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:05:50pm

re: #285 Kragar

Fucking hell

Senile old fart shoots 22 year old in the head for the crime of pulling into his drive way

Oh America.

300 Skeetghazi  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:06:54pm

re: #285 Kragar

re: #288 jaunte

And I’m whining. Retrospect folks, retrospect.

301 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:07:44pm

My grandmother’s brother beat his wife regularly, until one time she ended up in the hospital, where she died. He lived much longer, no prosecution or anything.

302 Skeetghazi  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:08:26pm

re: #301 wrenchwench

My grandmother’s brother beat his wife regularly, until one time she ended up in the hospital, where she died. He lived much longer, no prosecution or anything.

hated updinging that. HATED IT.

303 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:08:46pm

re: #298 Kragar

Had a distant relative (aunt’s by marriage great aunt) who at the age of 75, took a shotgun, shot her husband of 50 years in bed while he slept, wrapped him in a sheet and stuffed him in the basement, then went about her daily routine. They lived in the country, no one around for miles to hear the shot.

A few weeks later, neighbors wondering why they hadn’t seen him went to the house to ask about him. “Oh, I shot the son of a bitch. I had finally taken enough of his shit.”

Courts put her in an institution IIRC.

There are good reasons we have no-fault divorce laws.

304 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:08:51pm

re: #301 wrenchwench

My grandmother’s brother beat his wife regularly, until one time she ended up in the hospital, where she died. He lived much longer, no prosecution or anything.

That sucks. So sorry for her.

305 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:10:30pm

re: #304 CuriousLurker

That sucks. So sorry for her.

Most of these things don’t get passed on in the family lore, but my grandmother would get chatty when she drank, and she told my mom, who wrote a short story about it, which she let me read.

306 blueraven  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:11:08pm

So three republicans voted against John Kerry for SS.

The vote Tuesday was 94-3. One senator — Kerry — voted present and accepted congratulations from colleagues on the Senate floor. The roll call came just hours after the Senate Foreign Relations Committee unanimously approved the man who has led the panel for the past four
years.

The 3 senators…Inhofe and my two asshole senators from TX;
Cruz and Cornyn

“Sen. Kerry has a long history of liberal positions that are not consistent with a majority of Texans,” Cornyn said in a statement. The senator is up for re-election next year and could face a tea party challenge.

307 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:12:53pm

I’m ambivalent about Kerry.

I think his two female predecessors are going to prove tough acts to follow.

308 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:13:32pm

re: #282 CuriousLurker

Yeah, it’s really neat. The longer you let it run, the more the tweet light up the map. Europe has been consistently staying a few hundred tweets ahead of us since I started watching. It’s the middle of the night over there—wonder what they’re doing…

They’re Tweeting!

309 Skeetghazi  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:13:32pm

re: #306 blueraven

So three republicans voted against John Kerry for SS.

The vote Tuesday was 94-3. One senator — Kerry — voted present and accepted congratulations from colleagues on the Senate floor. The roll call came just hours after the Senate Foreign Relations Committee unanimously approved the man who has led the panel for the past four
years.

The 3 senators…Inhofe and my two asshole senators from TX;
Cruz and Cornyn

So predictable.

310 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:14:04pm

Oh Bryan, does it hurt to be you? Because really, it needs to.

311 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:14:33pm

re: #310 Kragar

Oh Bryan, does it hurt to be you? Because really, it needs to.

90% of the people who live here CAME FROM ANOTHER F—-ING CONTINENT. Just sayin’.

312 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:14:38pm

The dogs think the should be fed dinner.

Like they think it’s their right or something ;)

But it is raining hard outside.

You know how it goes, they eat, then they go outside …get wet, bring wetness inside …

313 blueraven  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:14:41pm

re: #307 FemNaziBitch

I’m ambivalent about Kerry.

I think his two female predecessors are going to prove tough acts to follow.

Nobody deserves it more than he does, IMO.
I think he will do very well.

314 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:15:03pm

re: #310 Kragar

Oh Bryan, does it hurt to be you? Because really, it needs to.

Would that include all those “anchor babies,” Bryan?

315 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:15:41pm

re: #307 FemNaziBitch

I’m ambivalent about Kerry.

I think his two female predecessors are going to prove tough acts to follow.

He had me when Johnson asked about Benghazi and Kerry responded “Those of us who actually attended the Intelligence briefings already have the answers to that question.”

Paraphrasing.

316 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:16:29pm

Groan. Anyone got any morphine?

317 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:16:34pm

re: #315 Kragar

He had me when Johnson asked about Benghazi and Kerry responded “Those of us who actually attended the Intelligence briefings already have the answers to that question.”

Paraphrasing.

Wow. That’s a different side of John Kerry than he showed in his Presidential run. That gives me a whole new respect for the man. Perhaps his feet will fit in those shoes.

318 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:16:57pm

re: #316 Gus

Groan. Anyone got any morphine?

YOu want to start itching?

319 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:16:58pm

Mmmm… Just pulled the ham out of the oven. Maple syrup/Brown Sugar/Bourbon glaze. With oven roasted new potatoes & carrots in butter, thyme & cumin. Nom nom nom time. BBL. :)

320 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:17:25pm

re: #318 FemNaziBitch

YOu want to start itching?

Where exactly?

321 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:17:30pm

re: #316 Gus

Groan. Anyone got any morphine?

{{{Gus}}}

Ibuprofen? Tylenol? Aspirin?

322 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:17:33pm

re: #319 William Barnett-Lewis

Mmmm… Just pulled the ham out of the oven. Maple syrup/Brown Sugar/Bourbon glaze. With oven roasted new potatoes & carrots in butter, thyme & cumin. Nom nom nom time. BBL. :)

sugar and carbs for dinner?

:0

323 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:18:04pm

re: #320 Gus

Where exactly?

everywhere, side effect of morphine.

That is if you stay awake.

324 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:18:20pm

re: #285 Kragar

Fucking hell

Senile old fart shoots 22 year old in the head for the crime of pulling into his drive way

Stand your ground! Second Amendment! Eleventy!

325 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:18:42pm

re: #321 wrenchwench

{{{Gus}}}

Ibuprofen? Tylenol? Aspirin?

Naproxen. Took 2 before which is basically a daily limit. It’s liveable when I’m not moving any. Sometimes though. Groan.

326 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:19:08pm

OT: Fascinating BBC documentary about Timbuktu, related to FNB’s Page The Price of War: Ancient African Archives Set on Fire in Timbuktu and recent events in Mali.

Youtube Video

A bit of good news regarding the fire:

Time magazine’s Vivienne Walt reports that some experts on the ground in Mali say many of the manuscripts were saved before the Islamists’ pillage:

Realizing that the documents might be prime targets for pillaging or vindictive attacks from Islamic extremists, staff left behind just a small portion of them, perhaps out of haste, but also to conceal the fact that the center had been deliberately emptied.

“The documents which had been there are safe, they were not burned,” Mahmoud Zouber, Mali’s presidential aide on Islamic affairs, told Time, “They were put in a very safe place.”

Other experts confirmed that while there were “a few items” in the Ahmed Baba library, the rest were protected in an undisclosed hiding place. […]

More at The Washington Post….

Woohoo—chalk up one for the good guys! They’ve been through this before and were ready for it. I think I’m gonna Page that.

327 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:19:29pm

Today’s Public Service Message.

328 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:20:02pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

OT: Fascinating BBC documentary about Timbuktu, related to FNB’s Page The Price of War: Ancient African Archives Set on Fire in Timbuktu and recent events in Mali.

[Embedded content]

A bit of good news regarding the fire:

“The documents which had been there are safe, they were not burned,” Mahmoud Zouber, Mali’s presidential aide on Islamic affairs, told Time, “They were put in a very safe place.”

Other experts confirmed that while there were “a few items” in the Ahmed Baba library, the rest were protected in an undisclosed hiding place. […]

More at The Washington Post….

Woohoo—chalk up one for the good guys! They’ve been through this before and were ready for it. I think I’m gonna Page that.

Very good news. I feel better!

329 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:20:46pm

re: #310 Kragar

Someone should remind Bryan about these words:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

330 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:21:24pm

re: #314 Targetpractice

Would that include all those “anchor babies,” Bryan?

TERROR BABIES!

/Gohmert

331 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:21:32pm

re: #311 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

90% of the people who live here (ancestors) CAME FROM ANOTHER F—-ING CONTINENT. Just sayin’.

ftfy

332 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:21:45pm

re: #317 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Wow. That’s a different side of John Kerry than he showed in his Presidential run. That gives me a whole new respect for the man. Perhaps his feet will fit in those shoes.

Kerry Calls GOP Senator Out For Missing Benghazi Briefing

Johnson pressed Kerry to commit to finding out what, exactly, happened on Sept. 11, 2012 at the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.

“Well, there was a briefing with tapes, which we all saw, those of us who went to it, which made it crystal clear,” Kerry said. “We sat for several hours with our intel folks, who described to us precisely what we were seeing. We saw the events unfold. We had a very complete and detailed description.”

333 Skeetghazi  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:21:51pm

re: #316 Gus

Groan. Anyone got any morphine?

Critical care or emergency room (read Alouette’s horror story) They send 1000% mark up bill? Whatev Gus, you get healed.

334 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:21:54pm

re: #325 Gus

Naproxen. Took 2 before which is basically a daily limit. It’s liveable when I’m not moving any. Sometimes though. Groan.

{{{{{{{Gus}}}}}}}

335 blueraven  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:22:33pm

re: #325 Gus

Naproxen. Took 2 before which is basically a daily limit. It’s liveable when I’m not moving any. Sometimes though. Groan.

Is it still you neck Gus?
Tried warm compress?

336 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:23:09pm

Personally, I don’t morphine is all that it is cracked-up to be.

Unless you want to remain passed-out.

337 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:23:24pm

re: #333 Stanghazi

Critical care or emergency room (read Alouette’s horror story) They send 1000% mark up bill? Whatev Gus, you get healed.

What was my horror story? Just that I broke my ankle and didn’t get it set right away b/c I didn’t have insurance. Now I get to park in the blue zone! Yay!

338 Mattand  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:23:35pm

re: #316 Gus

Groan. Anyone got any morphine?

Dude. Doctor. Now.

Assuming, of course, you haven’t done that yet. If you have, never mind.

339 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:23:57pm

re: #316 Gus

Groan. Anyone got any morphine?

Get you ass to a quick care outfit or an E.R. and get that ankle X-Rayed already.

340 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:24:08pm

re: #335 blueraven

Is it still you neck Gus?
Tried warm compress?

No. I fell on some ice before. Landed on my right foot/ankle. I either a) broke a bone; b) tore a ligament or c) sprained it something fierce.

341 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:25:05pm

re: #339 Bubblehead II

Get you ass to a quick care outfit or an E.R. and get that ankle X-Rayed already.

I can make it until tomorrow. I think. If it’s not getting better I’ll go tomorrow.

342 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:25:12pm

re: #340 Gus

No. I fell on some ice before. Landed on my right foot/ankle. I either a) broke a bone; b) tore a ligament or c) sprained it something fierce.

Do you have insurance? GET YOUR ANKLE XRAYED IMMEDIATELY. Even if you don’t have insurance, Mitt Romney said it’s totally free, you don’t have to stay in your apartment and die!

343 blueraven  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:26:48pm

re: #340 Gus

No. I fell on some ice before. Landed on my right foot/ankle. I either a) broke a bone; b) tore a ligament or c) sprained it something fierce.

ouch

When my kids twist sprain or tear, I use ice, then heat till I can get them to the dr.
If you cant get to the dr. maybe one of those icy hot patches

344 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:26:49pm

re: #340 Gus

No. I fell on some ice before. Landed on my right foot/ankle. I either a) broke a bone; b) tore a ligament or c) sprained it something fierce.

ICE? reduce inflamation.

best for orthopaedic pain, IMHO.

If you can put weight on it, it probably isn’t broken.

sprains are the worst of the three as far as pain goes-SO I’ve been told.

because of my hypermobility, I have sufficient experience with ankle sprains advise lots of ice.

They’d do that at the ER anyway.

345 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:27:12pm

I object to this headline. It’s only the start of Obama’s second term. Lindsey will find a way to dig further before this is all over.

346 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:27:21pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

Oops, left out the link to WaPo. Fixed.

347 Skeetghazi  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:27:24pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

OT: Fascinating BBC documentary about Timbuktu, related to FNB’s Page The Price of War: Ancient African Archives Set on Fire in Timbuktu and recent events in Mali.

[Embedded content]

A bit of good news regarding the fire:

“The documents which had been there are safe, they were not burned,” Mahmoud Zouber, Mali’s presidential aide on Islamic affairs, told Time, “They were put in a very safe place.”

Other experts confirmed that while there were “a few items” in the Ahmed Baba library, the rest were protected in an undisclosed hiding place. […]

More at The Washington Post….

Woohoo—chalk up one for the good guys! They’ve been through this before and were ready for it. I think I’m gonna Page that.

Heard the South African dude this morning on NPR. He headed up the start of the library in the 1960’s He refused to indicate the situation until he received more info. HOPE.

He started the library by trading goats, cows, whatever to people who for years and generations kept/hid the books in their family homes.

HOPE

348 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:27:29pm

re: #342 Vicious Babushka

Do you have insurance? GET YOUR ANKLE XRAYED IMMEDIATELY. Even if you don’t have insurance, Mitt Romney said it’s totally free, you don’t have to stay in your apartment and die!

I will but I’ll wait until tomorrow. Kind of late now. It’s semi-OK when I’m lying down. I can sort of walk on it but I sound like a choo-choo train that lets out a groan rather than a train horn every 2 seconds.

349 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:28:17pm

re: #345 Lidane

I object to this headline. It’s only the start of Obama’s second term. Lindsey will find a way to dig further before this is all over.

Sometimes I think Lindsay has some *ahem* issues.

Like he is just jealous that gay couples can get away with dressing better than he does.

350 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:28:30pm

re: #348 Gus

I will but I’ll wait until tomorrow. Kind of late now. It’s semi-OK when I’m lying down. I can sort of walk on it but I sound like a choo-choo train that lets out a groan rather than a train horn every 2 seconds.

Ankles are one of those you kinda don’t want to wait around on. When I rolled my ankle and sprained it, I was in the truck and on the way to the hospital as soon as the Mrs. Fish could get me off the floor. Also, as mentioned upthread, sprains paradoxically take longer to heal than breaks. Annoying as all get out for a semi-active geek like me.

351 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:29:03pm

re: #348 Gus

I will but I’ll wait until tomorrow. Kind of late now. It’s semi-OK when I’m lying down. I can sort of walk on it but I sound like a choo-choo train that lets out a groan rather than a train horn every 2 seconds.

Do you live by yourself or married? Kids?

Don’t suffer. At the hospital they will give you Vicodin.

352 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:29:10pm

Gus, get ICE on it.

I promise the pain will get a lot better right away.

353 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:29:14pm

re: #344 FemNaziBitch

ICE? reduce inflamation.

best for orthopaedic pain, IMHO.

If you can put weight on it, it probably isn’t broken.

sprains are the worst of the three as far as pain goes-SO I’ve been told.

because of my hypermobility, I have sufficient experience with ankle sprains advise lots of ice.

They’d do that at the ER anyway.

Got an ice pack waiting in the freezer. Had some ice on it before. Spoke with a nurse from Denver General earlier. She said to keep it elevated, ice, pain killers, etc. I’m kind of breaking the rules now but I’ll log off here in a bit and get horizontal again.

354 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:29:48pm

I have some catching up to do on this immigration bill. The mainstream media is not all that helpful in detail

Does this look a lot better than the Reagan era bill?

355 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:30:04pm

re: #351 Vicious Babushka

Do you live by yourself or married? Kids?

Don’t suffer. At the hospital they will give you Vicodin.

I have a ride available here. It’s a matter of me saying, “OK, let’s go.”

356 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:30:05pm
357 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:30:13pm

re: #353 Gus

Got an ice pack waiting in the freezer. Had some ice on it before. Spoke with a nurse from Denver General earlier. She said to keep it elevated, ice, pain killers, etc. I’m kind of breaking the rules now but I’ll log off here in a bit and get horizontal again.

frozen peas work best

or crushed ice in a doubled plastic baggie.

358 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:30:33pm

re: #341 Gus

I can make it until tomorrow. I think. If it’s not getting better I’ll go tomorrow.

Shakes head, mutters stubborn idiot. :-)

359 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:31:03pm

re: #340 Gus

No. I fell on some ice before. Landed on my right foot/ankle. I either a) broke a bone; b) tore a ligament or c) sprained it something fierce.

Oh dude, that must hurt like like hell.

360 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:31:13pm

re: #358 Bubblehead II

Shakes head, mutters stubborn idiot. :-)

Kids these days. ;)

361 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:32:07pm

re: #359 Political Atheist

Oh dude, that must hurt like like hell.

Yes. When I move around.

362 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:34:10pm

re: #359 Political Atheist

Oh dude, that must hurt like like hell.

Oh man, it does.

I stepped into an unmarked post-hole once. Bent my ankle 90 degrees.

Laid me out flat for 15 minutes, beating the ground and crying. No one was around, no one came to my aid.

It was in a parking lot and apparently the “handicapped” sign had been removed.

Because I have done such things before and will do them again, I knew I wasn’t broken or torn. Just put ice on it and cursed.

6 weeks to heal.

363 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:35:30pm

re: #362 FemNaziBitch

Oh man, it does.

I stepped into an unmarked post-hole once. Bent my ankle 90 degrees.

Laid me out flat for 15 minutes, beating the ground and crying. No one was around, no one came to my aid.

It was in a parking lot and apparently the “handicapped” sign had been removed.

Because I have done such things before and will do them again, I knew I wasn’t broken or torn. Just put ice on it and cursed.

6 weeks to heal.

I landed wrong coming down from a jump kick in karate class. When my wife did that, she broke it. I was lucky enough “just” to sprain it. I wound up being in my cast longer.

364 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:36:19pm

re: #363 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I landed wrong coming down from a jump kick in karate class. When my wife did that, she broke it. I was lucky enough “just” to sprain it. I wound up being in my cast longer.

It’s always my right ankle when I do it.

Sucks, it just sucks.

365 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:36:55pm

re: #362 FemNaziBitch

Oh man, it does.

I stepped into an unmarked post-hole once. Bent my ankle 90 degrees.

Laid me out flat for 15 minutes, beating the ground and crying. No one was around, no one came to my aid.

It was in a parking lot and apparently the “handicapped” sign had been removed.

Because I have done such things before and will do them again, I knew I wasn’t broken or torn. Just put ice on it and cursed.

6 weeks to heal.

Ice! That’s what caused this in the first place! From now on I’m staying far away from any ice on the ground. Unless the house is burning or something. I can rotate my ankle without much pain. No bruising and the swelling isn’t that bad.

366 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:37:13pm
367 Kragar  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:37:30pm

Hints of life spotted in water sample extracted from hidden Antarctic lake

Great, you woke up the Shoggoths. Now we’re all going to die.

368 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:38:04pm

re: #365 Gus

Ice! That’s what caused this in the first place! From now on I’m staying far away from any ice on the ground. Unless the house is burning or something. I can rotate my ankle without much pain. No bruising and the
swelling isn’t that bad.

Did you do this today?

It is always worse 24 hours later.

369 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:39:05pm

re: #367 Kragar

Hints of life spotted in water sample extracted from hidden Antarctic lake

Great, you woke up the Shoggoths. Now we’re all going to die.

Ah, I forgot about all the hibernating one-celled critters that live in the frozen depths —that aren’t frozen anymore.

RIPLEEEEEEEEY!

370 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:39:12pm

re: #368 FemNaziBitch

Did you do this today?

It is always worse 24 hours later.

on the phone

371 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:39:47pm

re: #362 FemNaziBitch

Back when I was doing a lot of sparring and some heavy/full contact martial arts Donna had to nurse me through quite a few injuries like big contusions, sprains and a few minor cracked bones like fingers or a rib.

What I remember the most is a sprained ankle and a broken heel bone. Those things hurt more than any other injuries i have ever had as a very fortunate guy. So far never needed surgery apart from dental.

then I got into sports that hurt less. ;-)>

372 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:41:43pm

Dogs are looking at me with hunger in their eyes.

373 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:42:41pm

re: #340 Gus

Feel better dude.

Rest it
Ice it
Compress it (bandage)
Elevate it.

And get your ass to Mars a doctor.

374 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:44:16pm

re: #368 FemNaziBitch

Did you do this today?

It is always worse 24 hours later.

Yeah. Today. Thanks for the warning. :O

375 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:45:08pm

re: #373 lawhawk

Feel better dude.

Rest it
Ice it
Compress it (bandage)
Elevate it.

And get your ass to Mars a doctor.

Yeah, doing that short of the doctor. For now. Got to sign off since I’m not keeping it elevated here now.

376 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:45:10pm

Frum is once again aghast at his fellow righties.

377 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:45:18pm

Shooting du jour:

Local report from a nearby county has a man and his young daughter holed up in a rural church. Man shot the school bus driver, took his child and left the others. Sounds personal.

378 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:47:01pm

re: #377 Decatur Deb

Shooting du jour:

Local report from a nearby county has a man and his young daughter holed up in a rural church. Man shot the school bus driver, took his child and left the others. Sounds personal.

Get in line.

379 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:48:02pm

re: #367 Kragar

Hints of life spotted in water sample extracted from hidden Antarctic lake

Great, you woke up the Shoggoths. Now we’re all going to die.

Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn! Iä! Iä!

380 Professional Poo Flinger  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:51:52pm

re: #341 Gus

I can make it until tomorrow. I think. If it’s not getting better I’ll go tomorrow.

The stubborn man’s mantra.

Get thee to an ER.

381 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:52:12pm

re: #325 Gus

Naproxen. Took 2 before which is basically a daily limit. It’s liveable when I’m not moving any. Sometimes though. Groan.

Ouch. Sorry to hear you got hurt. {{{Gus}}}

382 Professional Poo Flinger  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:54:34pm

re: #363 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I landed wrong coming down from a jump kick in karate class. When my wife did that, she broke it. I was lucky enough “just” to sprain it. I wound up being in my cast longer.

Oh you pussies.

I had my right leg torn off during Hapkido sparring. I just duct-taped the silly bugger back on and beat the crap out of that white belt.

383 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:55:35pm

re: #380 b_sharp

The stubborn man’s mantra.

Get thee to an ER.

I’ve been conditioned thanks to America’s great health care system. Apparently, you might break a leg here in the USA and then proceed to “shop around” for an inexpensive clinic. Or something. Hell, I’m not going there now. They’ll rip me off and bill me for a ton of money the way they always do. Don’t pay and then they throw a collection agency at ya.

384 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:56:03pm

re: #381 CuriousLurker

Ouch. Sorry to hear you got hurt. {{{Gus}}}

Thanks. The head still works. Sort of. //

385 Mattand  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:56:59pm

Speaking of parents and guns:

Eariler today, some nitwit named Dan Herber posted this to Twitter:

I’ve had some exchanges with him, partly because I’m sick of people placing guns before kids, and partly due to “Someone on the Internet is Wrong” Syndrome. Guy’s a real piece of work, though.

Apparently, he’s “recorded and categorized” me, whatever the fuck that means.

What kills me is I’m the one with no kids, yet I seem to be more upset about Sandy Hook victims than many of the gun-toting conservative parents out there.

386 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:57:12pm

re: #376 wrenchwench

Frum is once again aghast at his fellow righties.

Yet he stays. *sigh*

387 Professional Poo Flinger  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:57:41pm

re: #383 Gus

I’ve been conditioned thanks to America’s great health care system. Apparently, you might break a leg here in the USA and then proceed to “shop around” for an inexpensive clinic. Or something. Hell, I’m not going there now. They’ll rip me off and bill me for a ton of money the way they always do. Don’t pay and then they throw a collection agency at ya.

Sorry man, I keep forgetting. In Canuckistan we take the ability to get free health care for granted too easily.

388 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:57:50pm

re: #378 wrenchwench

Get in line.

Still a lot of sirens, sketchy reports of a second shooting victim.

389 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:57:52pm
390 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:58:09pm

Hahaha:

391 Mattand  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:58:25pm

re: #382 b_sharp

Oh you pussies.

I had my right leg torn off during Hapkido sparring. I just duct-taped the silly bugger back on and beat the crap out of that white belt.

Youtube Video
392 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:58:58pm

re: #387 b_sharp

Sorry man, I keep forgetting. In Canuckistan we take the ability to get free health care for granted too easily.

My aunt went to Boston general for a splinter. $2000.

393 Skeetghazi  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 3:58:59pm

re: #337 Vicious Babushka

What was my horror story? Just that I broke my ankle and didn’t get it set right away b/c I didn’t have insurance. Now I get to park in the blue zone! Yay!

Ah no offense.

394 Professional Poo Flinger  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:00:12pm

re: #392 Gus

My aunt went to Boston general for a splinter. $2000.

I can get a nose job for that much.

395 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:01:03pm

re: #394 b_sharp

I can get a nose job for that much.

Wouldn’t doubt it. But we in the USA are busy taking care of the rest of the world’s military endeavors. :D

396 Professional Poo Flinger  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:03:18pm

re: #395 Gus

Wouldn’t doubt it. But we in the USA are busy taking care of the rest of the world’s military endeavors. :D

That, and a poorly designed health system.

397 Lidane  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:03:48pm
398 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:04:05pm

After recognizing that wolf-like stare in the dog’s eyes, I decided to feed them out of rational self-interest.

They went outside and got wet.

Brat Puppy doesn’t like the rain, he pee’d on the grill cover and came right back inside.

399 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:06:12pm

re: #394 b_sharp

I can get a nose job for that much.

cheaper if you take karate class.

400 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:06:43pm

re: #396 b_sharp

That, and a poorly designed health system.

There’s no system to this system. Frankly, I don’t think even ACA will change that. Health care here is like going out to buy a used car. You’re on your own and there’s no central “clearinghouse” that’s out there to help our citizens. Just laws. Then they’ll tell you it’s your responsibility to know those laws and “ignorance of the law is no excuse.” It’s the same old Calvanism.

401 Gus  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:09:26pm

Oh crap. Hurts like an SOB. BBL maybe. Out.

402 Bubblehead II  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:09:57pm

Moving up to the new thread. Gus, If you aren’t going to see a Doc tonight, at least get the ankle iced, wrapped and elevated.

403 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:24:50pm

re: #391 Mattand

[Embedded content]

Knew what that was going to be without even clicking it. :)

404 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 4:25:16pm

re: #392 Gus

My aunt went to Boston general for a splinter. $2000.

Yes. But that splinter was removed by a Winchester!
;)

405 TedStriker  Tue, Jan 29, 2013 5:08:26pm

re: #404 Feline Fearless Leader

Yes. But that splinter was removed by a Winchester!
;)

Nice M*A*S*H reference there…


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