TwitterFacebook

NRA’s Wayne LaPierre Misrepresents Study on Effectiveness of Assault Weapons Ban

Obfuscation and outright lies are his game plan.
US News • Views: 22,965

It shouldn’t surprise anyone that the NRA and Wayne LaPierre in particular are lying about facts or statistics, and flip-flopping on what should otherwise be agreement to get universal background checks.

LaPierre’s a shill for the firearms industry, so anything that cuts to the bottom line would not pass muster. So that means lying and obfuscating information and in particular mischaracterizing a study that assesses the federal assault weapons ban and its impacts on gun markets and gun violence from 1994 to 2003 (and yes, that’s the link to the actual study for you to read through). His claims, along with those of law professor David Kopel, are at odds with the results of criminologist Christopher Koper, the lead investigator who carried out the study for the University of Pennsylvania.

LaPierre and Kopel went on at length about how the study proved that the assault weapons ban (AWB) was a total failure.

The fact is that the study reached no such conclusion. The biggest problem with the study was that it was inconclusive in several areas. But even then, key parts refute LaPierre and Kopel:

If you listened to the testimony today of Wayne LaPierre, the executive vice president of the NRA, or David Kopel, a law professor and researcher at the libertarian Cato Institute, the study’s findings were unequivocal.

‘Independent studies, including a study from the Clinton Justice Department, proved that ban had no impact on lowering crime,’ LaPierre said. A footnote in his prepared testimony indicated he was referring to the Koper study.

Cato’s Kopel dwelled on the study at length, spending several minutes discussing its history and findings. ‘We do not have to speculate about whether ‘assault weapon’ bans do any good. A Department of Justice study commissioned by the Clinton administration found that they do not,’ he explained. ‘The study found the [Sen. Dianne] Feinstein ban to be a complete failure.’

So is that what the study said? No, according to the author of the study himself. I emailed Koper, now at George Mason University, after the hearing to note that I had a fairly different reading of his paper from that of LaPierre and Koper, and asked if he could sort it out.

‘I agree with your reading of our 2004 study,’ Koper replied. You can read the full study for yourself here and see that while it was not a ringing endorsement of the assault weapons ban, as many gun control advocates had hoped, it hardly ‘proved’ the law to be a failure, as LaPierre claims. To the contrary, it found some encouraging signs, like an average 40 percent drop in the number of assault weapons used in crimes (some cities saw a drop of over 70 percent) and some benefit from the ban on high-capacity magazines.

But mostly, the study was inconclusive. Not enough time had passed for the ban’s effect to be fully felt and there were too many loopholes to get a good read on its effect. For instance, the number of high-capacity magazines in the country actually increased during time of the ban because it was still legal to import magazines made in other countries before the law went into effect. Meanwhile, numerous other variables contributed to the drop in crime during that decade, including better policing and the end of the crack epidemic.

In his testimony, Cato’s Kopel zeroed in on this passage from the study: ‘We cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence.’

By the same token, the study didn’t rule out the ban as a contributor to the drop in crime. Just because something can’t be proven does not mean that the opposite is automatically true.

Inconclusive is not the same as a failure. It means that there’s need for follow up and additional study, as well as addressing issues that have occurred since the AWB sunset.

There are so few studies on firearms precisely because the NRA has done a tremendous disservice to the American public and public health in general by cutting off funding for the very kinds of studies that could delve in to the subject of firearms safety, health harms from firearms, mental health and firearms, and any number of related issues.

Jump to bottom

167 comments

1 Bulworth  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 1:48:57pm

I’m shocked, shocked I say.

2 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:05:00pm

Another great post - promoted.

3 dragonfire1981  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:08:07pm

I’d like to repost a comment I made a week or so after Newtown due its continued relevance:

I wonder how different our national discourse would be if the 2nd amendment read: “A strong and able population, being necessary to the growth and prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to adequate health care shall not be infringed.”

4 erik_t  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:08:42pm
By the same token, the study didn’t rule out the ban as a contributor to the drop in crime. Just because something can’t be proven does not mean that the opposite is automatically true.

And that popping sound you hear echoing from coast to coast…

5 dragonfire1981  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:09:25pm

Or, to look at it a different way:

Consider someone who shoots up an abortion clinic.

A lot of right wingers are more obsessed with the rights of the shooter than those of his victims.

6 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:12:42pm

re: #5 dragonfire1981

Or, to look at it a different way:

Consider someone who shoots up an abortion clinic.

A lot of right wingers are more obsessed with the rights of the shooter than those of his victims.

In the rwnj world, those people are not victims. They are perpetrators of a heinous crime and deserved what they got.

7 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:15:41pm

The NRA has come to embody all the worst aspects of the modern Tea Party right - the total epistemic closure, the addiction to conspiracy theories, the fear-mongering, the often blatant racism, the craven dishonesty.

8 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:17:41pm

You forgot the impression that their leadership is totally owned by the almighty $ and corporate interests.

9 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:19:06pm

re: #8 Feline Fearless Leader

Oh yes. Lots of $ behind NRA.

10 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:19:14pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Well they have to do something to shore up their membership. Most sane firearms owners really don’t want anything to do with them anymore.

11 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:21:04pm

re: #10 Bubblehead II

True. They have gone off the cliff.

12 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:25:46pm

Excellent. Can’t really say anything that hasn’t been said already but thank you nonetheless for the excellent research as always.

13 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:31:36pm

I’d call LaPierre a lying corporate whore, but I respect professional sex workers too much to disparage them with even an indirect association to a douchebag like Wayne.

14 Lidane  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:33:35pm
15 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:35:40pm

Tony Perkins Links Military Suicide Rate to the Repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell

Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council has joined American Family Association’s Buster Wilson in linking the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell to the military’s suicide rate. Discussing the Pentagon’s new policy on allowing women to serve in combat units yesterday on his radio program, Perkins said that the Obama administration’s work in “driving Christianity out [and] putting homosexuality in” are “adding additional stress” that leads to a higher rate of suicide.

Perkins cited no evidence to back up his claim, but as with his ominous and incorrect predictions regarding the consequences of DADT’s repeal, he apparently doesn’t see a need to substantiate his outrageous allegations.

It couldn’t possibly be because of 10 years of active deployments and warfare, troops spread to the limit, and inadequate mental healthcare to address the problems of combat related trauma and stress.

16 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:37:25pm

re: #11 PhillyPretzel

True. They have gone off the cliff.

Started with the first AWB back in 94 and has only gotten worse.

And to be honest, I rode that Crazy Train for quite a few years myself.

And yes, I do own and shoot several “assault” weapons as well as having the capabilities to reload the ammo.

No, none of them are for home defense. Like Joe, I prefer a shotgun for that. Besides, I get to use it for bird hunting and trap shooting as well.

17 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:38:44pm

re: #15 Kragar

Tony Perkins Links Military Suicide Rate to the Repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell

It couldn’t possibly be because of 10 years of active deployments and warfare, troops spread to the limit, and inadequate mental healthcare to address the problems of combat related trauma and stress.

He must have a really low opinion of our troops if he thinks they’re incapable of handling openly gay comrades. Or he could be just projecting his bigotry on to our troops. I get a kick out of him trying to claim Christianity has been eliminated from the military. As if you have to be Christian to be a good soldier, sailor, Marine, etc. When my cousin’s husband was in the USMC, he asked for surfer to be the religion listed on his dog tags.

18 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:39:31pm

Fischer Cites Todd Akin in Making the Case that the GOP is not ‘the Stupid Party’

… the GOP is not the stupid party, Fischer insisted, because “conservative ideas are not stupid; they are wise, they work, they are strategic, every one of them; conservatism works every single solitary time it is tried, we don’t have to apologize for a single solitary conservative idea.”

Fischer recognized that sometimes conservatives might “misspeak” on occasion, as Todd Akin did with his infamous “legitimate rape” remark … but that just proves Fischer’s point because Akin was “completely accurate about that,” thus demonstrating that “our ideas are not stupid and the people who advocate them are not stupid”:

19 efuseakay  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:40:36pm

re: #16 Bubblehead II

Started with the first AWB back in 94 and has only gotten worse.

And to be honest, I rode that Crazy Train for quite a few years myself.

And yes, I do own and shoot several “assault” weapons as well as having the capabilities to reload the ammo.

No, none of them are for home defense. Like Joe, I prefer a shotgun for that. Besides, I get to use it for bird hunting and trap shooting as well.

I’m hoping to pick up a Remington .22LR in the future. Just for plinking. Those things are fun as all get-out!

Good luck finding .22 ammo though. It’s non-existent here in Cook County IL.

21 Skeetghazi  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:44:20pm
22 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:45:46pm
23 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:46:06pm

re: #19 efuseakay

Heh. I have 5000 rounds (50 100 rounds boxes) in storage.

24 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:48:01pm

Beer run. Back in a few.

25 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:48:36pm

American Independent Party

In 1968, the American Independent Party nominated Alabama Governor George C. Wallace as its presidential candidate and retired U.S. Air Force General Curtis E. LeMay as the vice-presidential candidate.

26 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:52:20pm

Picture of Class III weapons from the estate of Richard Wray.

Cowan’s Auctions announces the procurement of the collection of firearms and militaria from the estate of Richard Wray. Wray, a Cincinnati native and former president of the Wray Electric Company had been a collector for over 50 years, Richard passed away in July of this year, at which point his estate was contracted to Cowan’s to inventory, estimate, and sell at auction in April of 2013. Included in this collection are over 200 firearms, featuring over 90 rare, fresh-to-the-market, class III weapons.

In today’s environment, I’m guessing the auction will pull down $5 million or more.

27 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:52:48pm

re: #15 Kragar

Tony Perkins Links Military Suicide Rate to the Repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell

It couldn’t possibly be because of 10 years of active deployments and warfare, troops spread to the limit, and inadequate mental healthcare to address the problems of combat related trauma and stress.

Never mind the fact the high rate was occurring prior to the DADT repeal.

28 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:53:11pm

Fox News guest: Immigrants don’t want citizenship because they are ‘enjoying all the benefits’

“It is very easy to live here and not speak English and not be a citizen and still have a wonderful life and still get your children education and still get health care,” she opined. “You’re assuming that they’re going to want to jump through those hoops [to apply for citizenship] and that they’re going to want to pay taxes. That’s a big assumption.”

“That’s the pathway to citizenship,” Williams observed.

“Maybe they don’t want citizenship!” Walters interrupted. “Maybe they want to continue living illegally and not paying taxes and enjoying all the benefits.”

Like the benefits of not being able to enjoy legal protections if their employer screws them over, the joy of being torn out of their homes and away from family members, those benefits?

29 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:53:37pm

re: #25 Kragar

American Independent Party

One of the staunchest defenders of segregation and the architect of “megadeath”…a fitting pair of “founding fathers” for a political party, eh, Glenn?

30 erik_t  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:55:15pm

re: #28 Kragar

Fox News guest: Immigrants don’t want citizenship because they are ‘enjoying all the benefits’

“Maybe they don’t want citizenship!” Walters interrupted. “Maybe they want to continue living illegally and not paying taxes and enjoying all the benefits.”

I’d love to know how many illegal immigrants are working at jobs that pay enough to take them into the lofty first-class-noncitizen 53%.

Please, Republicans, at least get your lies straight.

31 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:55:49pm

Extremely OT:

And now Buck isn’t sure if Christianity was used to justify slavery in the US. He thinks maybe it was another religion.

32 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:56:02pm

That’s lame for even Fox. Really, they don’t want to be citizens? Nonsense.

33 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:56:53pm

re: #18 Kragar

Rarely has so much stupidity been compressed into so few sentences. Fischer has some real talent for this.

34 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:57:07pm

re: #26 goddamnedfrank

Picture of Class III weapons from the estate of Richard Wray.

In today’s environment, I’m guessing the auction will pull down $5 million or more.

Ooo. If I could I’d put a bid in on the MG42 and 34. Best machine guns ever made.

35 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 2:58:36pm

I see Michelle Malkin is bragging that the wingnut blogosphere “beat back” the Newtown heckler story.

[Link: michellemalkin.com…]

They did convince some of the more easily spooked journalists by raising such a stink, I gotta hand that to them.

But even if you concede that the word “heckled” isn’t the best description (which I don’t), the behavior of the pro-gun crowd at that hearing was disgusting.

36 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:01:10pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

To quote the sage:

ARGUING WITH RETARDS: it’s like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it’s won.

37 dragonfire1981  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:01:54pm

re: #18 Kragar

Fischer Cites Todd Akin in Making the Case that the GOP is not ‘the Stupid Party’

That’s basically the exact point I made on here a few days ago. The only difference is to Fisher it actually makes SENSE.

38 celticdragon  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:04:24pm

re: #35 Charles Johnson

I see Michelle Malkin is bragging that the wingnut blogosphere “beat back” the Newtown heckler story.

[Link: michellemalkin.com…]

They did convince some of the more easily spooked journalists by raising such a stink, I gotta hand that to them.

But even if you concede that the word “heckled” isn’t the best description (which I don’t), the behavior of the pro-gun crowd at that hearing was disgusting.

I’m surprised she didn’t go with “we shot it down” or some such.

39 dragonfire1981  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:05:43pm

I wonder if I could make some money by selling Gadsden flag pet mats with the caption:

DON’T SHED ON ME

40 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:06:32pm

re: #39 dragonfire1981

I wonder if I could make some money by selling Gadsden flag pet mats with the caption:

DON’T SHED ON ME

Ha! Not bad.

41 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:07:55pm

[Link: thinkprogress.org…]
Just saw this on facebook. This amuses me.

42 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:08:27pm

re: #26 goddamnedfrank

Whoa. Some of that looks like WW 1 era (or earlier) stuff.

43 celticdragon  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:08:34pm

re: #37 dragonfire1981

That’s basically the exact point I made on here a few days ago. The only difference is to Fisher it actually makes SENSE.

That is when you realize that you actually cannot communicate in any meaningful fashion with a person like this, since basic assumptions of reality that you and I take for granted simply are not shared by someone like Fischer. You may as well try to get somebody on a PCP trip to converse intelligibly about plate tectonics.

44 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:09:48pm

If you think Todd Akin is an ideal candidate, then you just may be a right wing nutjob. But please Bryan, I’m sure the Democratic party wants more Akins instead of less because Todd Akin makes it easy to point how insane your ideology is becoming.

45 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:11:01pm

re: #26 goddamnedfrank

Picture of Class III weapons from the estate of Richard Wray.

In today’s environment, I’m guessing the auction will pull down $5 million or more.

Twice that. At least. There are some extremely rare pieces in that picture. The Japanese MG will bring big bucks & that aircraft mount MG34 with drum will make the certain types of collector swoon. Plus a huge variety of Maxim, Vickers & derivatives? All fully papered and transferable? Thanks to the Hughes Act that’s a license to print money.

46 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:11:50pm

Thanks for the promo, and for ggt to prod me to page it.

To get ahead of the inevitable claims that the left/liberals were pushing bogus statistics, let’s get something straight here.

The NRA was purposefully lying about the results of a federally funded study on firearms and the AWB claiming that the study found the AWB did nothing to stem the tide of violence.

That is a lie. The most that can be said is that many aspects were inconclusive.

Several speakers, including the President and VP have recently claimed that 40% of firearms sales have not required background checks.

The WaPo gives that 2 pinnochios but here’s the thing. Even their reading finds ~20% are avoiding the background check, and based on the millions of transactions a year - that’s quite a few guns being sold that would otherwise have checks.

Still, even that particular stat gets in the way of the fact that Wayne LaPierre was busy calling for universal background checks just a few years ago and is now pandering to extremists to thwart closing the loopholes and imposing universal checks.

Oh, and the statistics again are subject to limited data sets because research on firearms has been limited by the likes of the NRA.

47 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:12:42pm

re: #43 celticdragon

That is when you realize that you actually cannot communicate in any meaningful fashion with a person like this, since basic assumptions of reality that you and I take for granted simply are not shared by someone like Fischer. You mas as well try to get somebody on a PCP trip to converse intelligibly about plate tectonics.

Another analogy for this that I like is trying to get a star-nosed mole to appreciate the Sistine Chapel.

48 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:13:19pm

re: #45 William Barnett-Lewis

Twice that. At least. There are some extremely rare pieces in that picture. The Japanese MG will bring big bucks & that aircraft mount MG34 with drum will make the certain types of collector swoon. Plus a huge variety of Maxim, Vickers & derivatives? All fully papered and transferable? Thanks to the Hughes Act that’s a license to print money.

This is where the argument of “who needs that” meets the reality of a rational investment. Who needs gold bricks, the government even banned possession of gold bricks for a long time, but there’s no constitutional amendment defending the possession of gold bricks. Richard Wray managed to turn his hobby collection into a massively valuable asset for his estate and heirs, since the 1986 ban on new machine gun registrations his class 3 colleciton has skyrocketed in value. It’s hard to deny that if such collections were outlawed or an AWB like Feinstein’s made it impossible to sell or transfer them that this would raise huge legal issues as an unlawful taking of property.

49 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:14:56pm

re: #39 dragonfire1981

I wonder if I could make some money by selling Gadsden flag pet mats with the caption:

DON’T SHED ON ME

Someone posted a PIC of the Gadsdenen flag that had a crossed eyed snake that said Don’t Laugh At Me earlier today

50 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:23:10pm

Selective use of facts, par for the course for the religious right. And yes, they are all religious - gun-worshipers, Reagan-worshipers, “Jesus”-worshipers, they all share a willing suspension of reality in the name of furthering their own political cause. Evening Lizardim from the cold and snowy wild north country, I see the flow of derp continues unabated by the presence of those pesky things called “facts”.

51 Skeetghazi  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:23:53pm

Oh boy

Check out this part of reference requirement:

A list of at least three references, all of whom must be willing to attest to not only your artistic abilities your philosophical commitment to the principles of limited government, free enterprise, and personal responsibility.

Beyond the missing comma, it sounds like all your peeps must swear to The Project that you are a real conservative. Weird & creepy, but that’s them.

52 Lidane  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:24:15pm

What could possibly go wrong?

53 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:25:24pm

re: #52 Lidane

What could possibly go wrong?

Hey Shurf Joe, how’s that Birther thing workin’ out for ya? U mad, bro? LOL.

54 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:27:06pm

re: #50 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

To be a little more precise, the various RW cults vigorously embrace all of the worst aspects of organized religion: mindless obedience to authority figures; the suppression of rational thought; demonizing all opponents as hell-spawn or worse; and elevation of irrational positions to unquestionable dogma of the faith.

55 Lidane  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:28:20pm

re: #50 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Evening Lizardim from the cold and snowy wild north country, I see the flow of derp continues unabated by the presence of those pesky things called “facts”.

Reality has a well-known liberal bias.

56 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:29:48pm

Wingnuts sure love the freedom of the individual to live by whatever arbitrary rules they agree with and everyone else is going to HELL!

57 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:30:11pm

Karma: 0

NoVA Mouse
(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 6, 2009 at 12:17 pm
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of Pages posted: 0

C’mon NoVa Mouse. You went through the effort to register, at least drop us a line saying hi. Good manners and all ya know?

58 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:31:23pm

re: #56 Kragar

Wingnuts sure love the freedom of the individual to live by whatever arbitrary rules they agree with and everyone else is going to HELL!

Wingnut freedom of religion is the freedom to burn heretics and unbelievers at the stake. The Puritans in colonial times thought pretty much the same way.

59 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:33:15pm

re: #58 EPR-radar

Wingnut freedom of religion is the freedom to burn heretics and unbelievers at the stake. The Puritans in colonial times thought pretty much the same way.

Yeah, they were mad because they couldn’t persecute in their religion’s name in England. As a result, I never thought much of the romanticizing of them. My brother who’s taking American history in school right now were discussing which colony we’d go to. In unison we said Pennsylvania and that wasn’t just because I want Ben Franklin to be my mid 18th century wingman.

60 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:36:49pm

Remember “Young Moms love ar-15s” from this morning:

Gayle Trotter Opposed Law To Protect Women Before Testifying On Guns For Moms

Gayle Trotter, the conservative activist who became the breakout star of Wednesday’s gun violence hearing in the Senate with her adamant cry that women need assault rifles to defend themselves, wrote last year that she opposed the Violence Against Women Act.

The reason, she said at the time, was the law would create the prospect of “false accusers” stealing taxpayer money by using shelters and legal aid.

On Wednesday, Trotter used the fear of violence against women to support gun laws that allow access to large capacity magazines and assault weapons in her testimony.

“An assault weapon in the hands of a young woman defending her babies in her home becomes a defense weapon,” she said.

Trotter based her defense of gun rights on the need for women to defend themselves against those who would commit violent acts against them. Back in 2012, she was not as supportive of the federal government’s efforts to protect women with VAWA. The law, she wrote on the website of the Independent Women’s Forum, could promote false accusations of domestic violence.

Bitch.

61 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:36:51pm

re: #59 HappyWarrior

Yeah, they were mad because they couldn’t persecute in their religion’s name in England. As a result, I never thought much of the romanticizing of them. My brother who’s taking American history in school right now were discussing which colony we’d go to. In unison we said Pennsylvania and that wasn’t just because I want Ben Franklin to be my mid 18th century wingman.

Rhode Island would also be a good choice. As I recall, their founders were Massachusetts free-thinking types that didn’t wait around to be hanged by the MA Puritans.

62 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:38:33pm

re: #52 Lidane

What could possibly go wrong?

The armored truck I can see (for the SWAT unit), but a goddamn Ma Deuce?

Why in the fuck would a sheriff’s department (granted, one of the largest in the country) need that?

63 jaunte  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:39:12pm

re: #60 Kragar

The reason, she said at the time, was the law would create the prospect of “false accusers” stealing taxpayer money by using shelters and legal aid.

When did the spirit of Joe Walsh take over her soul?

64 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:39:46pm

re: #58 EPR-radar

Wingnut freedom of religion is the freedom to burn heretics and unbelievers at the stake. The Puritans in colonial times thought pretty much the same way.

I see this mindset a lot in the conservative Christian culture I’m a part of. Basically the heart of Dominionism, these people think theocracy is all well and good unless it’s someone else’s theocracy, then DEATH TO THE INFIDELS WE NEED A CHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT TO COME IN AND EXECUTE THE UNBELIEVERS.

65 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:40:54pm

re: #52 Lidane

What could possibly go wrong?

He said in an earlier press conference they needed automatic weapons because suspects were running away.

Joe really wants to gun down some fleeing civilians.

66 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:41:51pm

re: #61 EPR-radar

Rhode Island would also be a good choice. As I recall, their founders were Massachusetts free-thinking types that didn’t wait around to be hanged by the MA Puritans.

Yeah, Roger Williams. New York I think would be another good choice.

67 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:42:17pm

re: #60 Kragar

Remember “Young Moms love ar-15s” from this morning:

Gayle Trotter Opposed Law To Protect Women Before Testifying On Guns For Moms

HYPOCRITICAL Bitch.

ftfy

68 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:43:22pm

re: #64 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I see this mindset a lot in the conservative Christian culture I’m a part of. Basically the heart of Dominionism, these people think theocracy is all well and good unless it’s someone else’s theocracy, then DEATH TO THE INFIDELS WE NEED A CHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT TO COME IN AND EXECUTE THE UNBELIEVERS.

In other words, to hell with all of this Enlightenment nonsense of religious toleration etc. They want a replay of the European wars of the Reformation.

69 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:43:33pm

re: #59 HappyWarrior

Yeah, they were mad because they couldn’t persecute in their religion’s name in England. As a result, I never thought much of the romanticizing of them. My brother who’s taking American history in school right now were discussing which colony we’d go to. In unison we said Pennsylvania and that wasn’t just because I want Ben Franklin to be my mid 18th century wingman.

Virginia.

So I could have a jumpstart on heading west.

70 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:43:47pm

re: #64 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I see this mindset a lot in the conservative Christian culture I’m a part of. Basically the heart of Dominionism, these people think theocracy is all well and good unless it’s someone else’s theocracy, then DEATH TO THE INFIDELS WE NEED A CHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT TO COME IN AND EXECUTE THE UNBELIEVERS.

I guess that’s what confuses me about modern conservative Christians. A lot of their ancestors were victims of a real theocracy. Some of them even killed and many more exiled but they want the same for the rest of us? My ancestral Catholicism I must confess plays a role in my staunch support of the separation of church and state. That and knowing history.

71 calochortus  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:43:54pm

re: #60 Kragar

re: #67 Bubblehead II

So arming abused women would be a better option than a shelter?

72 calochortus  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:45:16pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

I guess that’s what confuses me about modern conservative Christians. A lot of their ancestors were victims of a real theocracy. Some of them even killed and many more exiled but they want the same for the rest of us? My ancestral Catholicism I must confess plays a role in my staunch support of the separation of church and state. That and knowing history.

But they are right so it’s OK

73 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:45:24pm

re: #71 calochortus

re: #67 Bubblehead II

So arming abused women would be a better option than a shelter?

Apparently so.

74 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:45:27pm

re: #62 TedStriker

The armored truck I can see (for the SWAT unit), but a goddamned Ma Deuce?

Why in the fuck would a sheriff’s department (granted, one of the largest in the country) need that?

/// To stem the highly armed invading hoards of illegals invading this Country?

75 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:45:46pm

re: #72 calochortus

But they are right so it’s OK

Yeah I know. Remember this is an outsider’s perspective on them.

76 jaunte  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:45:52pm

re: #74 Bubblehead II

Undocumented Terminators.

77 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:48:53pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

I guess that’s what confuses me about modern conservative Christians. A lot of their ancestors were victims of a real theocracy. Some of them even killed and many more exiled but they want the same for the rest of us? My ancestral Catholicism I must confess plays a role in my staunch support of the separation of church and state. That and knowing history.

Problem is, fundamentalist Christianity writes their own revisionist history. They intentionally paint themselves on the losing side of a culture war as part of their indoctrination.

78 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:51:14pm

re: #77 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Problem is, fundamentalist Christianity writes their own revisionist history. They intentionally paint themselves on the losing side of a culture war as part of their indoctrination.

Well, they actually are losing the culture war. However, that loss does not mean that are suffering religious oppression, until they define their “religious oppression” as not being able to impose their views on others.

79 calochortus  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:51:43pm

re: #75 HappyWarrior

Yeah I know. Remember this is an outsider’s perspective on them.

That’s why you and I are wrong and bound for Hell. They just want to save us from that awful fate. They fail to understand that we aren’t unaware of their religious beliefs, just uninterested.

80 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:52:18pm

re: #77 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Problem is, fundamentalist Christianity writes their own revisionist history. They intentionally paint themselves on the losing side of a culture war as part of their indoctrination.

Gotcha.

81 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:52:26pm

re: #78 EPR-radar

until they define their “religious oppression” as not being able to impose their views on others.

What do you mean until? They’ve been doing that for years now.

82 Lidane  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:53:24pm

Sorry for the OT, but this sort of patronizing bullshit pisses me off:

Yeah! She’s just saying what her husband tells her to say. It’s not like she’s got any opinions or expereinces of her own concerning gun violence. =P

83 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:53:50pm

re: #80 HappyWarrior

Gotcha.

They paint the past as this rosy, Christian-filled utopia so as to make the believers want a return to those barbaric times. It’s similar to the way the Islamotards try to twist Islam in the same direction.

84 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:53:58pm

re: #79 calochortus

That’s why you and I are wrong and bound for Hell. They just want to save us from that awful fate. They fail to understand that we aren’t unaware of their religious beliefs, just uninterested.

Yep. That’s why the campus preachers always got on my nerves. I am perfectly aware of what fundamentalist Christianity is and I want nothing to do with it. I live life with a simple code: Do right by myself and others, try not to judge, and have a fun time since there’s only one life for certain. If there’s an afterlife, great, but if not, I want to have fun doing it. Basically I’m happily agnostic.

85 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:54:53pm

re: #82 Lidane

Sorry for the OT, but this sort of patronizing bullshit pisses me off:

Yeah! She’s just saying what her husband tells her to say. It’s not like she’s got any opinions or expereinces of her own concerning gun violence. =P

Yeah it’s not like Gabby Giffords was shot by a lunatic with a gun. She’s just doing whatever her husband says. What a load of horse shit.

86 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:55:18pm

re: #71 calochortus

re: #67 Bubblehead II

So arming abused women would be a better option than a shelter?

Looks like so in her world view. Not mine.

87 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:55:23pm

re: #81 Kragar

What do you mean until? They’ve been doing that for years now.

Agreed that this has been happening forever. It’s more of a logical “until” than chronological.

88 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:56:16pm

re: #82 Lidane

Sorry for the OT, but this sort of patronizing bullshit pisses me off:

Yeah! She’s just saying what her husband tells her to say. It’s not like she’s got any opinions or expereinces of her own concerning gun violence. =P

From the asshats who think women are supposed to do everything their husband’s order them to do or Jesus will punish them.

89 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:56:17pm

re: #83 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

They paint the past as this rosy, Christian-filled utopia so as to make the believers want a return to those barbaric times. It’s similar to the way the Islamotards try to twist Islam in the same direction.

That scares me because frankly while we could be better as a society, this is probably the best time to live.

90 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:58:03pm

re: #82 Lidane

Sorry for the OT, but this sort of patronizing bullshit pisses me off:

Yeah! She’s just saying what her husband tells her to say. It’s not like she’s got any opinions or expereinces of her own concerning gun violence. =P

But they would expect their wives to do the same thing if they needed them to.

91 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:58:37pm

re: #89 HappyWarrior

That scares me because frankly while we could be better as a society, this is probably the best time to live.

Even a sane conservative (e.g., WF Buckley) wants to halt progress (e.g., telling history to “Stop!”).

This is rather thoroughly bankrupt as an intellectual position.

The outright reactionary positions of many on the US right today are much worse, of course.

92 calochortus  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 3:59:41pm

re: #84 HappyWarrior

Sounds good to me. I think a lot of fundamentalists would be very surprised at how un-sinful my happily agnostic/atheist life is.

93 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:00:36pm

re: #92 calochortus

Sounds good to me. I think a lot of fundamentalists would be very surprised at how un-sinful my happily agnostic/atheist life is.

I think a lot of fundamentalists would be very surprised at how not-un-sinful their own “religious zealout” lives are, for that matter.

94 Skeetghazi  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:00:42pm

re: #82 Lidane

Sorry for the OT, but this sort of patronizing bullshit pisses me off:

Yeah! She’s just saying what her husband tells her to say. It’s not like she’s got any opinions or expereinces of her own concerning gun violence. =P

no words.

95 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:00:50pm

I see we have another 172-comment Buck fight goin’ on.

96 calochortus  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:01:23pm

re: #91 EPR-radar

Even a sane conservative (e.g., WF Buckley) wants to halt progress (e.g., telling history to “Stop!”).

This is rather thoroughly bankrupt as an intellectual position.

The outright reactionary positions of many on the US right today are much worse, of course.

I am hardly the first to note that it must be hard to live life with that much fear of the future (or anything else)

97 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:01:47pm

re: #91 EPR-radar

Even a sane conservative (e.g., WF Buckley) wants to halt progress (e.g., telling history to “Stop!”).

This is rather thoroughly bankrupt as an intellectual position.

The outright reactionary positions of many on the US right today are much worse, of course.

Precisely. Really I look at myself and think about how difficult it would have been for me in other times and if contemporary conservatives had their way. Not going to say being on the autistic spectrum is like being a racial minority but it’s a lot easier now in 2013 than it was in the past. Hell a lot easier now than it was in my childhood. We must not fear change but embrace it.

98 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:02:06pm

re: #82 Lidane


Yeah! She’s just saying what her husband tells her to say. It’s not like she’s got any opinions or expereinces of her own concerning gun violence. =P

Another case study in RW Projection. Can we call it a thousand IMAX projectors of light yet?

99 Mattand  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:02:12pm

re: #82 Lidane

Sorry for the OT, but this sort of patronizing bullshit pisses me off:

Yeah! She’s just saying what her husband tells her to say. It’s not like she’s got any opinions or expereinces of her own concerning gun violence. =P

Woman took a bullet to the head, and she’s still smarter than all of #TGDN combined.

100 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:02:26pm

re: #95 Charles Johnson

I see we have another 172-comment Buck fight goin’ on.

I stopped giving a Buck about him a long time ago.

101 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:02:29pm

re: #92 calochortus

Sounds good to me. I think a lot of fundamentalists would be very surprised at how un-sinful my happily agnostic/atheist life is.

Yeah, I mean I have my vices- don’t we all? But I’m a pretty happily boring person all in all.

102 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:03:17pm

re: #89 HappyWarrior

That scares me because frankly while we could be better as a society, this is probably the best time to live.

I would call myself a “modern Christian”. I follow Jesus, but I live in the modern world and try to hold sane and rational views on everything outside of faith. The disconnect between myself and my fundamentalist parents is fairly deep at this point. I feel bad for misleading them so, but it would be the death of them if they figured out just how “liberal” I’ve become.

103 calochortus  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:04:39pm

re: #93 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I think a lot of fundamentalists would be very surprised at how not-un-sinful their own “religious zealout” lives are, for that matter.

I think they know. The assumption is that the only thing keeping us from spiraling into a totally debauched society is our fear of divine retribution. I would suggest that people do what they’re going to do despite religion. I’m boring. I’d be boring if I were the most religious person on earth and I’m boring as an atheist. Most of these folks would achieve whatever level of morality they operate at with or without their religion.

104 Lidane  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:04:42pm

re: #100 Kragar

I stopped giving a Buck about him a long time ago.

+1

His schtick got real old real fast a long time ago.

105 calochortus  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:06:45pm

re: #102 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

I would call myself a “modern Christian”. I follow Jesus, but I live in the modern world and try to hold sane and rational views on everything outside of faith. The disconnect between myself and my fundamentalist parents is fairly deep at this point. I feel bad for misleading them so, but it would be the death of them if they figured out just how “liberal” I’ve become.

Honestly, I think it’s a kindness if there is no doubt that it would only upset them.

106 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:07:05pm

re: #103 calochortus

I think they know. The assumption is that the only thing keeping us from spiraling into a totally debauched society is our fear of divine retribution. I would suggest that people do what they’re going to do despite religion. I’m boring. I’d be boring if I were the most religious person on earth and I’m boring as an atheist. Most of these folks would achieve whatever level of morality they operate at with or without their religion.

QFT. Religion and ethical behavior are at best poorly correlated, so all of this nonsense that people need to be god-fearing in order to behave really ticks me off.

107 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:07:23pm

re: #102 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

My parents are Catholics, and profess conservative views on that religion even though in reality they’re kind of normal Catholics (i.e. used birth control just fine, thanks.) What’s weird is my dad didn’t believe in evolution growing up, which, y’know, the Catholic church does, but I was actually able to convince my dad about evolution.

They both accept that I’m an atheist, I think it helps that my grandmother was one.

108 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:09:46pm

re: #107 Obdicut

My parents are Catholics, and profess conservative views on that religion even though in reality they’re kind of normal Catholics (i.e. used birth control just fine, thanks.) What’s weird is my dad didn’t believe in evolution growing up, which, y’know, the Catholic church does, but I was actually able to convince my dad about evolution.

They both accept that I’m an atheist, I think it helps that my grandmother was one.

I’m a devout agnostic. I don’t discount the existence of a higher power, but anyone who claims they get direction or commune with it on a regular basis is nuts.

109 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:11:58pm

re: #108 Kragar

I’m a devout agnostic. I don’t discount the existence of a higher power, but anyone who claims they get direction or commune with it on a regular basis is nuts.

Well then I will just take my pamphlets about Bastet worship and the lessons we can learnt through her whiskered avatars and go home!

110 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:13:14pm

re: #109 jamesfirecat

Well then I will just take my pamphlets about Bastet worship and the lessons we can learnt through her whiskered avatars and go home!

Heretic. Cats are not mere avatars. They are divine in their own right. //

111 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:14:04pm

re: #108 Kragar

I’m a devout agnostic. I don’t discount the existence of a higher power, but anyone who claims they get direction or commune with it on a regular basis is nuts.

“Whatta ya mean I don’t believe in God? Talk to him every day… ”
Peace Sells, But Who’s Buying? - Megadeth.

112 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:16:44pm

re: #95 Charles Johnson

I see we have another 172-comment Buck fight goin’ on.

When I saw that, I couldn’t help but think of this song from Up In Smoke:

113 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:19:06pm

Tonight, tornado watch and a severe thunderstorm about to roll in.
Tomorrow night, snow.
Nope, nothing screwy with the climate.
No sirree!

114 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:23:27pm

Rand Paul, gearing up for 2016

“I believe in traditional marriage,” he said during an interview with Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association. “I really don’t understand any other kind of marriage. Between a man and a woman is what I believe in, and I just don’t think it is good for us to change the definition of that.”

Paul noted that his state, Kentucky, had approved a constitutional amendment to prohibit same-sex marriage. He said he was “not sure” about DOMA, but warned the federal law could result in conservatives losing “the battle for the whole country.”

Paul said marriage rights should be decided state-by-state rather than nationally so that “urban centers” couldn’t dictate the law.

Because we’re so much better off when we let backwater shitholes guide the nation’s policies.

115 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:23:33pm

Mud hut full of RPG’s asplodes


I bet that is pretty in color
116 Interesting Times  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:25:20pm

re: #113 Varek Raith

Tonight, tornado watch and a severe thunderstorm about to roll in.
Tomorrow night, snow.
Nope, nothing screwy with the climate.
No sirree!

Take a look at these before-and-after pictures (from Southern Ontario) which I found on the Weather Network:

Taken Jan 29

Taken one day later

117 calochortus  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:26:11pm

re: #116 Interesting Times

Impressive. Not good, but impressive.

118 jaunte  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:26:15pm

re: #114 Kragar

It’s a bit of a relief that Rand Paul has only managed to get 755,216 Kentuckians to vote for him so far.

119 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:26:36pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

Mud hut full of RPG’s asplodes

[Embedded content]


I bet that is pretty in color

What a waste of a bomb.
Could’ve just dropped a rock on it. Same effect.
/

120 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:27:09pm

Hail?
Geez.

121 calochortus  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:27:23pm

re: #114 Kragar

Rand Paul, gearing up for 2016

Because we’re so much better off when we let backwater shitholes guide the nation’s policies.

Dear Libertarian,

What’s it to you who somebody else loves?

Kind regards,
Me

122 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:28:53pm

January Fox News ratings lowest since 2001

The Fox News Channel, the largest conservative media outlet, suffered its worst month since 2001 in January among the most coveted viewer demographic, according to the latest ratings figures. A press release from the NBC Media Center reported that Nielsen ratings for the month of January showed Fox News viewership at a 12-year low, while rival MSNBC gained ground in all categories in 2012.

The right-leaning news juggernaut continues to dominated most cable news categories, hosting 9 of the top 10 programs, but it has lost considerable ground among the 25 to 54 demographic, turning in the worst ratings since the terror attacks of September 11, 2001 and its lowest total day ratings since 2008.

123 Kragar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:29:37pm

re: #121 calochortus

Dear Libertarian,

What’s it to you who somebody else loves?

Kind regards,
Me

Rand Paul is as much a Libertarian as Bryan Fischer is a Christian.

124 jaunte  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:30:31pm

Michelle Malkin is on the case:

Michelle Malkin Fights For Truth: Can Gun-Grabber Gabby Giffords Even Write Stuff?

A liberal fraud was pushed on you this evening, friends. A dirty untruth, pushed upon you by a sinister plot to take away your weapons. Several news outlets — including your vaunted Washington Post — published a photograph of the handwritten notes former Rep. Gabby Giffords read from at a gun-control hearing this afternoon.

The lie? Giffords is not the one who wrote the notes.

125 krypto  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:30:51pm

LaPierre is simply against any form of gun control.

If something other than universal background checks is being proposed, he is likely to claim we should have universal background checks and enforce the laws we have, instead of the law being proposed, until someone tries to get universal background checks into effect, or tries to remove loopholes in the laws we have so they can be enforced, at which point he will oppose that.

126 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:32:02pm

re: #125 krypto

LaPierre is simply against any form of gun control.

If something other than universal background checks is being proposed, he is likely to claim we should have universal background checks and enforce the laws we have, instead of the law being proposed, until someone tries to get universal background checks into effect, or tries to remove loopholes in the laws we have so they can be enforced, at which point he will oppose that.

Gun nut whack-a-mole. All very amusing until the body count is considered.

127 Skeetghazi  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:37:11pm

The gall to attack Gabby.

Guns over people.

128 Interesting Times  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:38:26pm

Now this is a great twist on an old saying (and apropos for the original discussion, when you think about it).

129 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:41:28pm

re: #127 Stanghazi

The gall to attack Gabby.

Guns over people.

Think about it for a second: These people are in favor of using their precious guns to KILL people. Yes, in their minds, their guns are quite literally worth more than someone’s life.

130 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:42:29pm

re: #114 Kragar

Rand Paul, gearing up for 2016

Because we’re so much better off when we let backwater shitholes guide the nation’s policies.

Add some sarc tags. Because you know someone will, willfully mistake this as actual support for those views.

Yes, they are actually that dense

131 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:42:41pm

re: #124 jaunte

Michelle Malkin is on the case:

Michelle Malkin Fights For Truth: Can Gun-Grabber Gabby Giffords Even Write Stuff?

As soon as Gabrielle Giffords launched her extremely moderate and reasonable gun control project, she became fair game for the right to attack her with everything in their sad little arsenals.

132 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:47:34pm

re: #114 Kragar

Rand Paul, gearing up for 2016

Because we’re so much better off when we let backwater shitholes guide the nation’s policies.

Yeah those damned urban centers. Seriously shut the fuck up Rand. Freedom shouldn’t be something that’s decided on a state by state basis.

133 jaunte  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:48:01pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

So far I haven’t seen anyone criticize her husband, but its coming. It’s virtually guaranteed that some crazed gun nuts will be calling Mark Kelly, a naval aviator and astronaut, un-American.

134 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:51:48pm

re: #133 jaunte

So far I haven’t seen anyone criticize her husband, but its coming. It’s virtually guaranteed that some crazed gun nuts will be calling Mark Kelly, a naval aviator and astronaut, un-American.

They’re already claiming he’s controlling her and making her do this against her will. Yeah being shot by Loughner is just a coincidence. Do they think she’s too stupid to konw better? They know that attacking her is too low for even them so they make some bs up about her husband.

135 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:52:22pm
136 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:53:29pm

This wingnut’s timeline is toxic

137 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 4:57:09pm

HOLY CRAP

138 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:01:00pm

I’m done giving Buck the benefit of the doubt.
In my mind, he supports the likes of Pam and Geert.

139 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:01:29pm

re: #137 Vicious Babushka

HOLY CRAP

Right, because breaking the law is going to work out SO well for these would-be paragons of justice. How many more innocent civilians would’ve died if a CCW holder had returned fire?

140 Ghost Of The Mare Island Mud Puppy  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:02:35pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

As soon as Gabrielle Giffords launched her extremely moderate and reasonable gun control project, she became fair game for the right to attack her with everything in their sad little arsenals.

And this surprises you and the Lizard Nation?

// I’m shocked!

141 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:04:36pm

re: #133 jaunte

So far I haven’t seen anyone criticize her husband, but its coming. It’s virtually guaranteed that some crazed gun nuts will be calling Mark Kelly, a naval aviator and astronaut, un-American.

Navy folk are all minions of Neptune anyways, who’d trust them?
// ;p

142 jhrhv  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:06:11pm

There is a lot of disgusting crap coming out of the far right. These attacks on Gabby I think disgust me the most. Well thinking about it attacking a guy who is talking about his child getting murdered a few weeks ago might be worse.

143 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:07:17pm

re: #139 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Right, because breaking the law is going to work out SO well for these would-be paragons of justice. How many more innocent civilians would’ve died if a CCW holder had returned fire?

They have toxic fantasies.

144 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:08:42pm

re: #143 Vicious Babushka

They have toxic fantasies.

I know. They think that they have perfect aim and super night vision and are immune to fog of war. They’re superheroes in their own minds. Dunning-Kruger crossed with delusions of grandeur.

145 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:09:01pm

I guess Obama is actually starting his third term.

The key principles the President believes should be included in commonsense immigration reform are:

—Continuing to Strengthen Border Security: President Obama has doubled the number of Border Patrol agents since 2004 and today border security is stronger than it has ever been.

[…]

146 TedStriker  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:09:16pm

re: #127 Stanghazi

The gall to attack Gabby.

Guns over people.

re: #129 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too

Think about it for a second: These people are in favor of using their precious guns to KILL people. Yes, in their minds, their guns are quite literally worth more than someone’s life.

re: #131 Charles Johnson

As soon as Gabrielle Giffords launched her extremely moderate and reasonable gun control project, she became fair game for the right to attack her with everything in their sad little arsenals.

re: #133 jaunte

So far I haven’t seen anyone criticize her husband, but its coming. It’s virtually guaranteed that some crazed gun nuts will be calling Mark Kelly, a naval aviator and astronaut, un-American.

When you have an not-so-small segment of the American populace that worships guns (machines that are specifically designed to kill and maim) like they would the Holy Grail, no argument is too extreme or too beyond-the-pale for them to use to defend their gun lust.

For a demographic that presumably has a lot of overlap with “pro-lifers”, I call bullshit; many of them don’t worship life, they worship death, so long as they’re the ones pulling the trigger.

147 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:10:38pm

re: #145 wrenchwench

I guess Obama is actually starting his third term.

Retroactive legislation!

148 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:10:54pm
149 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:11:32pm

ROFL, looks like Buck went and memory holed all his recent pages. That’s one way of dealing with failure I guess.

150 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:13:04pm

re: #149 goddamnedfrank

ROFL, looks like Buck went and memory holed all his recent pages. That’s one way of dealing with failure I guess.

Chickenshit.

151 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:14:38pm

re: #149 goddamnedfrank

ROFL, looks like Buck went and memory holed all his recent pages. That’s one way of dealing with failure I guess.

Granted some of the comments still show up on the bottom 10 comments list, is that a feature or a bug?

Also I that’s the last time I ever post something important to me in a Buck thread. (The description of why I am no longer a Presbyterian as rather long and heartfelt and I am not going to just be able to type it up again any time soon.)

152 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:15:22pm

re: #149 goddamnedfrank

Yep, he’s working his way backwards. He just reached the beginning of December 2012.

153 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:15:30pm

re: #149 goddamnedfrank

ROFL, looks like Buck went and memory holed all his recent pages. That’s one way of dealing with failure I guess.

Music to my eyes:

Logged out: Buck

154 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:20:32pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

Yep, he’s working his way backwards. He just reached the beginning of December 2012.

It he pounding his head on his Dashboard?

155 Ghost of a Dopefish  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:20:48pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

Yep, he’s working his way backwards. He just reached the beginning of December 2012.

Wow. Now that’s flouncing on a truly epic scale.

156 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:22:26pm

re: #151 jamesfirecat

Granted some of the comments still show up on the bottom 10 comments list, is that a feature or a bug?

Bug, now fixed.

157 klys  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:22:59pm

re: #151 jamesfirecat

I still have the thread open and can copy and paste it for you if you’d like.

158 A Mom Anon  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:23:29pm

There simply isn’t enough Karma in the universe to deal with the MalkinBeast. What an ugly horrible human being.

159 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:24:08pm

OK, looks like he got tired of doing that now.

160 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:24:36pm
Frank says:

Heaven would be a place where bullshit existed only on television. (Hallelujah! We’s halfway there!) — Television. Sometime probably in 1988. The Real Frank Zappa Book p. 234

161 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:26:03pm
162 HoosierHoops  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 5:34:57pm

re: #138 Varek Raith

I’m done giving Buck the benefit of the doubt.
In my mind, he supports the likes of Pam and Geert.

This may not be fair to Buck. But there is a certain stalker who’s voice matches his…It really would not surprise me to find out that Buck is a sock..Just years of observation.. Doesn’t really matter This is America and anybody has the right to be stupid.

163 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 6:02:56pm

re: #156 Charles Johnson

Bug, now fixed.

Thnx hate to go to the bottom comments and see all the “fun” I missed.

164 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 6:03:28pm

re: #157 klys

I still have the thread open and can copy and paste it for you if you’d like.

Sure , do you still have it?

165 klys  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 6:08:04pm

re: #164 jamesfirecat

Sure , do you still have it?

Yep. Here it is:

Yes it is worthy of respect, I respect the belief that drives men to do good things, but I am not quite sure if can truly respect the religion which inspired that belief. The problem is that I can not see how to personally join a religion which will not possibly lead to my voice getting copted into support of causes I dislike by other followers of that religion, unless by defaults I decide to start my own religion where I get to make all the rules which while possible is a little silly.


To further explain, I was raised Presbyterian and was mostly fine with the religion until our church underwent the process of trying to find a new pastor when our old one (a well respected guy who spoke at both my and my brother’s Eagle ceremony) and one of the possible replacements was a woman who was openly homosexual.

So the day came that she came to curch and gave a sermon and then we had a great big vote on the subject of if we should confirm her or not as our new pastor.

Some unpleasant things were said durring the debate before the vote from fellow members of my church things things along the line of “I don’t know god will, but I do know that this kind of thing displeases him!”


The vote was around 75 % in favor and 25% against which was enough to thwart a confirmation.

After that experience I could never fully respect the church I grew up in again because while it did not directly espouse bigotry it’s teachings if one did not want to be a “cafeteria Christian” did promote bigotry against homosexuals.

There is so much about that church which I liked, but the fact remains that it needed to change on that issue and the only way to do it would be to rip out pieces of the Bible directly.

That is why I no longer attend that church and have a bone to pick with all three of the Abrahamic religions.

I’m assuming that’s the right bit - let me know if it was something else.

166 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 6:22:06pm

re: #165 klys

Yep. Here it is:

I’m assuming that’s the right bit - let me know if it was something else.

Yeah that was the bit in question, thnx

167 chadu  Wed, Jan 30, 2013 6:53:06pm

re: #31 Obdicut

Oh, for fuck’s sake.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

TwitterFacebook

Turn off all ads for a full year by subscribing!
For about 33 cents a day (per month) or 22 cents a day (per year), our subscription option turns off all advertisements at LGF!
Read more...

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Articles

  • Loading...

► Tweeted Pages

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form
LGF Pages

This button leads to the main index of LGF Pages, our user-submitted articles. You can post your own LGF Pages simply by registering a free account with us.

Create a Page

This is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.

Last updated: 2014-03-07 2:19 pm PST

LGF User's Guide
Recent Pages
Skip Intro
A Birther No More? Trump Makes Maximum Donation to Ted Cruz’s PAC
Donald Trump may not be sure if Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) is eligible to be president, but he has no problem giving the Tea Party hero a chunk of his fortune. According to a report in The Hill, Trump has donated $5,000 -- the maximum legal amount under current election law -- to Senator Cruz's political action committee, the Jobs Growth and Freedom ...

3 hours, 3 minutes ago
Views: 48 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
FemNaziBitch
‘MOM BABY GOD’ Offers Outsider’s Inside View of Pro-Life Movement : The (402)/411
"It always comes back to God in the end," Burrows said of pro-life efforts. "They try to rebrand themselves as focusing on women's rights, but it really comes down to reinforcing conservative Christian values and pushing it on people." She tried to understand the pro-life movement from the perspective of other young women. Burrows said she could see why they were persuaded by ...

6 hours, 29 minutes ago
Views: 109 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 1
Randall Gross
Godzilla - Nature Has an Order [HD]
godzillamovie.comfacebook.comIn theaters May 16th. In Summer 2014, the world's most revered monster is reborn as Warner Bros. Pictures and Legendary Pictures unleash the epic action adventure "Godzilla." From visionary new director Gareth Edwards ("Monsters") comes a powerful story of human courage and reconciliation in the face of titanic forces of nature, when the awe-inspiring Godzilla rises to restore balance as humanity stands defenseless. ...

7 hours, 44 minutes ago
Views: 110 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 0
palmerskiss
Debate Discrimination - Houston Chronicle
We're glad to see Mayor Annise Parker finally stand up and propose a human rights commission that will provide local due process for victims of public discrimination. Parker told the Chronicle editorial board that she plans to release a formal version of her proposal within the next few weeks, but sometimes the process is just as important as the result. As the energy ...

8 hours, 13 minutes ago
Views: 81 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
cycroft
Russ Campbell’s Blog: Bill C-23, Fair Elections Act Seems Now on Solid Ground
Now that a Sen­ate com­mit­tee has rec­om­mended nine changes to Bill C-23, Fair Elec­tions Act, the leg­is­la­tion seems pretty solid. And, since Pierre Poilievre has, ap­par­ently, in­di­cated pri­vately that he's open to changes, an amended ver­sion of the bill will likely be­come law by this sum­mer. We would prob­a­bly have got­ten to this point ear­lier had not the min­is­ter re­spon­si­ble for the bill ...

10 hours, 43 minutes ago
Views: 65 • Comments: 1
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
MichaelJ
Live now - 2014 Rip Curl Pro Bells Beach - ASP World Tour
More: 2014 Rip Curl Pro Bells Beach - ASP Iconic Bells Beach in Victoria, Australia once again hosts the world's best surfers for the 41st running of the Bells Beach Contest. New feature in this broadcast: drone cam!

1 day, 6 hours ago
Views: 169 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 3 • Rating: 0
Idle Drifter
Calgary stabbings: How knife crime in Canada can cause ‘moral panic’
What Calgary police chief Rick Hanson called the "worst mass murder" in the city's history didn't end at the barrel of a gun. Instead, the 22-year-old suspect identified on Tuesday as Matthew de Grood is accused of entering the kitchen at a house party, taking "a large knife" and using it to fatally stab four men and one woman, all of whom were students ...

2 days, 22 hours ago
Views: 231 • Comments: 4
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 0
aagcobb
New York Electoral College: State Joins National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
Ben Mathis-Lilley, Slate: New York Electoral College: State Joins National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Instead of pushing for a Constitutional amendment, which would have to be ratified in 38 states, advocates ask individual state legislatures to pass an agreement: that they'll pledge all their presidential electors to the winner of the national popular vote as soon as enough other states pass the law to ...

3 days, 4 hours ago
Views: 245 • Comments: 7
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
Political Atheist
The Insane History of Rockets at Jet Propulsion Laboratories
The Rocket Boys In the late 1930s, a group of Caltech graduate students were booted off campus after blowing up (part of!) their building during a rocket test gone awry. Unwilling to give up on the joy of semi-controlled explosions, the students and a few of their friends headed into the San Gabriel Mountains. They picked a deserted gully -- Arroyo Seco -- ...

4 days, 1 hour ago
Views: 278 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 2
iossarian
Drug Companies Want Your Money
Two thematically-related stories on the BBC at the moment: UK drug company Glaxo 'paid bribes to Polish doctors' UK drug company GlaxoSmithKline is facing a criminal investigation in Poland for allegedly bribing doctors, BBC Panorama has discovered. Tamiflu: Millions wasted on flu drug, claims major report Hundreds of millions of pounds may have been wasted on a drug for flu that works no better ...

4 days, 7 hours ago
Views: 271 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 8 • Rating: 0
 Frank says:

Always get a second opinion. -- His personal physician did not diagnose prostate cancer before it was too advanced to treat with any success.