Police Seeking Dorner Opened Fire in Another Case of Mistaken Identity

“Buffoonery”
Crime • Views: 23,422

David Perdue was on his way to sneak in some surfing before work Thursday morning when police flagged him down. They asked who he was and where he was headed, then sent him on his way.

Seconds later, Perdue’s attorney said, a Torrance police cruiser slammed into his pickup and officers opened fire; none of the bullets struck Perdue.

His pickup, police later explained, matched the description of the one belonging to Christopher Jordan Dorner — the ex-cop who has evaded authorities after allegedly killing three and wounding two more. But the pickups were different makes and colors. And Perdue looks nothing like Dorner: He’s several inches shorter and about a hundred pounds lighter. And Perdue is white; Dorner is black.

“I don’t want to use the word buffoonery but it really is unbridled police lawlessness,” said Robert Sheahen, Perdue’s attorney. “These people need training and they need restraint.”

More: Police Seeking Dorner Opened Fire in a Second Case of Mistaken Identity

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285 comments
1 jaunte  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 12:57:08pm
David Perdue was on his way to sneak in some surfing before work Thursday morning when police flagged him down. They asked who he was and where he was headed, then sent him on his way.

Seconds later, Perdue’s attorney said, a Torrance police cruiser slammed into his pickup and officers opened fire…
…
Connie Rice, a civil rights attorney, said it’s not surprising when police make mistakes during manhunts.

“They don’t know where he is, and they’re going to be edgy and jumpy,” she said. “Don’t get in their way…”

Doesn’t sound as if she read Perdue’s story.

2 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 1:06:40pm

re: #1 jaunte

Doesn’t sound as if she read Perdue’s story.

The rest of that last paragraph:

“They don’t know where he is, and they’re going to be edgy and jumpy,” she said. “Don’t get in their way. They’re in a special state of consciousness right now, and they’re not used to being hunted.”

“Special state of consciousness”? I’d call it OD’d on adrenaline, possibly out of their minds. I hope they’ve calmed down a bit in the last three days.

3 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 1:29:36pm

re: #2 wrenchwench

Yeah, that “special state of consciousness” is also known as “trigger-happy and out for revenge.”

The LAPD is not covering itself with glory in this case.

4 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:39:13pm

This story in particular is just baffling incompetence. If he were Dorner, would he not have, y’know, committed violence against the stopping officers? One presumes police will never use force when nonviolent means are available; hadn’t they already nonviolently apprehended this nefarious citizen?

Just utterly inept. I don’t get this one at all.

5 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:41:34pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

Yeah, that “special state of consciousness” is also known as “trigger-happy and out for revenge.”

The LAPD is not covering themselves with glory in this case.

Do they carry fully or semi-automatic firearms?

I don’t even like the cops having these weapons. They are not soldiers.

6 austin_blue  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:42:50pm

You know, if they just shoot everyone on sight, they’ll get this guy!

7 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:43:42pm

re: #5 FemNaziBitch

Do they carry fully or semi-automatic firearms?

I don’t even like the cops having these weapons. They are not soldiers.

Police in LA carry semi-auto 9mm handguns, except for SWAT officers, who carry customized M1911A1-type .45 ACP pistols.

8 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:44:24pm

re: #5 FemNaziBitch

Do they carry fully or semi-automatic firearms?

I don’t even like the cops having these weapons. They are not soldiers.

I think it’s pretty typical for police cars to carry AR-15s or similar in the trunk. This is largely a repercussion of whichever LA-area robbery it was in the early 1990s with the two robbers with AK-47s and body armor being immune-ish to pistol fire. Several officers died, as I recall.

Edit: link

9 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:45:08pm

re: #6 austin_blue

You know, if they just shoot everyone on sight, they’ll get this guy!

Nuke the area from orbit (after Charles and any other Lizards make their escape, of course).

It’s the only way to be sure.

///

10 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:45:48pm

re: #5 FemNaziBitch

This is why they have them.

Youtube Video

Since then LAPD officers have had the option of carrying an AR 15 in the trunk if given special training.

11 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:45:53pm

From last thread:

A federal arrest affidavit states Dorner’s burned-out truck was found near the property of a known associate in the Big Bear Lake area Thursday afternoon.

If true then there’s good odds that he had another vehicle stashed there and is long gone at this point.

Christopher Dorner, the ex-LAPD cop who allegedly killed three people has been on the run, successfully evading police, for over a week. To finally track him down, it seems that law enforcement is pulling out all the stops. According to the Express, Dorner is now a target for drones, among the first ever on U.S. soil.

At first I thought Dorner’s pledge to bring asymmetric warfare to bear was some brand of ridiculous bluster. But now as this stretches into days of manhunt, terrified police panic shootings against innocent people and now, drones, I’m starting to wonder. The signature feature of an asymmetric conflict is the amount of money and resources a weaker foe can get their adversary to commit to the fight.

Strictly from a sociological / criminological point of view, the precedent Dorner has been able to set so far is pretty fucking disturbing.

12 austin_blue  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:45:58pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

Police in LA carry semi-auto 9mm handguns, except for SWAT officers, who carry customized M1911A1-type .45 ACP pistols.

And M-16s/MP-5s in the trunk. The SWAT teams are tricked out with full autos.

13 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:46:06pm

re: #9 TedStriker

Nuke the area from orbit (after Charles and any other Lizards make their escape, of course).

It’s the only way to be sure.

///

One my way to the super sekrit cross-country tunnel to the nether regions of the Denver Airport as we speak…

:0

14 Mich-again  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:46:45pm

Well its a good thing Dorner burned his blue pickup truck to the ground so the police could stop firing at vehicles matching that description. Hopefully he doesn’t somehow steal a police car next.

15 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:47:30pm

Dorner’s done more to tarnish the reputation of the LAPD just by staying hidden than his allegations ever did.

16 SpaceJesus  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:47:50pm

There is a very happy plaintiff’s attorney somewhere in LA right now

17 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:48:41pm

re: #16 SpaceJesus

There is a very happy plaintiff’s attorney somewhere in LA right now

With $$$ in their eyes.

It’s gonna blow to be a taxpayer in LA very soon.

18 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:49:02pm

And I’ll just link here to my comment from early this morning which documents the various shifting outright lies Torrance PD has tried to spew regarding this incident.

19 austin_blue  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:50:00pm

re: #16 SpaceJesus

There is a very happy plaintiff’s attorney somewhere in LA right now

No shit!

“Why did you shoot at Mr. Perdue, Officer?”

“Because he looked almost completely unlike him, except for the fact the he was breathing.”

20 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:50:51pm

re: #19 austin_blue

No shit!

“Why did you shoot at Mr. Perdue, Officer?”

“Because he looked almost completely unlike him, except for the fact the was breathing I have delusions of grandeur of being the cop that get’s that scumbag traitor.”

ftfy

21 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:51:37pm

re: #17 TedStriker

With $$$ in their eyes.

It’s gonna blow to be a taxpayer in LA very soon.

$$$ they don’t have —no?

22 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:51:50pm

re: #14 Mich-again

Well its a good thing Dorner burned his blue pickup truck to the ground so the police could stop firing at vehicles matching that description. Hopefully he doesn’t somehow steal a police car next.

Dorner’s pickup was a grey Nissan. The two hispanic women’s pickup was royal blue Toyota. Perdue’s pickup was a black Honda.

23 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:52:41pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Dorners pickup was a grey Nissan. The two hispanic women’s pickup was royal blue Toyota. Perdue’s pickup was a black Honda.

Makes me wonder if the description going around is a “dark pick-up truck, make/model unknown.”

24 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:52:51pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Dorner’s pickup was a grey Nissan. The two hispanic women’s pickup was royal blue Toyota. Perdue’s pickup was a black Honda.

Hey, credit where credit is due. At least they haven’t yet fired on a white Mini.

/

25 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:52:52pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Dorners pickup was a grey Nissan. The two hispanic women’s pickup was royal blue Toyota. Perdue’s pickup was a black Honda.

Depending on the lighting and the individual’s vision, those colors could appear similar. Car color is difficult especially because of the properties in the paint that reflect and refract the light to make the finish look soo kewl.

26 austin_blue  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:53:18pm

re: #21 FemNaziBitch

$$$ they don’t have —no?

Every large municipality carries a buttload of liability insurance.

27 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:53:44pm

re: #26 austin_blue

Every large municipality carries a buttload of liability insurance.

LA’s premium just went up.

28 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:54:01pm

re: #23 Targetpractice

Makes me wonder if the description going around is a “dark pick-up truck, make/model unknown.”

Which any moron would hopefully question, since he worked for them. Does the LAPD not have parking passes? Do they just let any old random vehicle park for long periods within car bomb range of the local precinct and not even bother to question it?

Er… don’t answer that.

29 Mich-again  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:54:04pm

re: #19 austin_blue

“Why did you shoot at Mr. Perdue, Officer?”

Well I already knew I was gonna take a lot of shit for ramming the Crown Vic into his truck so I figured what’s one more ass chewing.

30 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:54:49pm

re: #29 Mich-again

Well I already knew I was gonna take a lot of shit for ramming the Crown Vic into his truck so I figured what’s one more ass chewing.

How much do those cop cars cost anyway. They are majorly tricked-out.

31 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:55:10pm

re: #19 austin_blue

No shit!

“Why did you shoot at Mr. Perdue, Officer?”

“Because he looked almost completely unlike him, except for the fact the was breathing.”

“We’ve got an APB on a carbon based life form.”

“Standby to traverse left, 360. All weapons fire at my command.”

32 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:55:45pm

re: #28 erik_t

Which any moron would hopefully question, since he worked for them. Does the LAPD not have parking passes? Do they just let any old random vehicle park for long periods within car bomb range of the local precinct and not even bother to question it?

Er… don’t answer that.

Based on the last couple days, I’m beginning to think we’re not exactly deal with rocket scientists here.

33 jaunte  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:56:11pm

This is a rotten way to test the amateur security guards in all schools concept.

34 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:56:18pm

re: #21 FemNaziBitch

$$$ they don’t have —no?

re: #26 austin_blue

Every large municipality carries a buttload of liability insurance.

re: #27 FemNaziBitch

LA’s premium just went up.

Not to mention all of the extra costs in manpower and equipment this is all causing, even for departments outside LA (such as Big Bear).

35 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:56:29pm

re: #30 FemNaziBitch

How much do those cop cars cost anyway. They are majorly tricked-out.

Pretty cheap, actually. About $21k for the car itself, with a bunch of toys tacked on to take the total cost to about $37k. A lot of that is recoverable from a damaged car, though. Radios, things like that.

36 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:57:03pm

re: #33 jaunte

This is a rotten way to test the amateur security guards in all schools concept.

Yeah, “good guy with a gun” versus “bad guy with a gun” is beginning to quickly resemble “good guy with a gun and no impulse control.”

37 Mich-again  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:57:36pm

re: #25 FemNaziBitch

Depending on the lighting and the individual’s vision, those colors could appear similar. Car color is difficult especially because of the properties in the paint that reflect and refract the light to make the finish look soo kewl.

I think the word you are looking for is metamerism. :-)

38 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:58:05pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

Based on the last couple days, I’m beginning to think we’re not exactly deal with rocket scientists here.

I was just thinking along those lines. One has to have at least a point or two above average intelligence to be a police officer. They are not scholars, but they are smart people.

This is an example of how a group of smart, organized and trained humans do.

It is a sad state of affairs … .

39 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:58:50pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Dorner’s pickup was a grey Nissan. The two hispanic women’s pickup was royal blue Toyota. Perdue’s pickup was a black Honda.

ALL THOSE RICE BURNERS LOOK ALIKE!1!

40 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:59:03pm

re: #35 erik_t

Pretty cheap, actually. About $21k for the car itself, with a bunch of toys tacked on to take the total cost to about $37k. A lot of that is recoverable from a damaged car, though. Radios, things like that.

Too bad Ford doesn’t make Crown Vics anymore…the only real options out there now are Implalas and Chargers, both considered mid-sized cars.

41 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 2:59:07pm

re: #37 Mich-again

I think the word you are looking for is metamerism. :-)

Yeah, but I like my definition.

Don’t you?

42 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:00:08pm

re: #35 erik_t

Pretty cheap, actually.

As with many other things, the cost of the equipment itself is utterly trivial compared to people costs, be they salary, health care, pension/disability, or the more evil-HR view of replacement training costs.

Police are trained to treat their equipment as essentially disposable, and rightly so. Even if they had no human value, their simple balance sheet value is greater than any equipment by a vast margin.

43 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:00:22pm

re: #25 FemNaziBitch

Depending on the lighting and the individual’s vision, those colors could appear similar. Car color is difficult especially because of the properties in the paint that reflect and refract the light to make the finish look soo kewl.

I’m sorry, but police cars have headlights, spotlights and tested full color vision is considered an important requirement for service. I’m not buying this explanation.

44 Mich-again  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:00:58pm

re: #41 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, but I like my definition.

Don’t you?

Yeah it werks.

45 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:01:36pm

re: #43 goddamnedfrank

I’m sorry, but police cars have headlights, spotlights and tested full color vision is considered an important requirement for service. I’m not buying this explanation.

Try to distinguish car colors next time you are out driving at night or day. It’s not so easy to distinquish similar colors/hues of neutral tones. Teal or Orange is easier in the day, but a Black, gray, beige even red can be very difficult, especially at night.

46 dragonfire1981  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:01:42pm

I’m thinking Dorner is long gone from Big Bear by now. He’s not stupid enough to hang around after leaving his truck there. He had another vehicle, that’s almost a guarantee.

I wonder if he’s heading back south or if he’s gone further north.

One thing I don’t wonder about: Dorner won’t allow himself to be taken. He’ll either commit suicide beforehand or die in a shootout with the cops.

47 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:02:40pm

re: #46 dragonfire1981

I’m thinking Dorner is long gone from Big Bear by now. He’s not stupid enough to hang around after leaving his truck there. He had another vehicle, that’s almost a guarantee.

I wonder if he’s heading back south or if he’s gone further north.

One thing I don’t wonder about: Dorner won’t allow himself to be taken. He’ll either commit suicide beforehand or die in a shootout with the cops.

He’s probably in Mexico by now …

48 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:02:57pm

Feline underlords: if you have the time, I posted a page & would like advice.

Thanks.

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49 Mich-again  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:03:09pm

re: #46 dragonfire1981

I’m thinking Dorner is long gone from Big Bear by now. He’s not stupid enough to hang around after leaving his truck there. He had another vehicle, that’s almost a guarantee.

I wonder if he’s heading back south or if he’s gone further north.

One thing I don’t wonder about: Dorner won’t allow himself to be taken. He’ll either commit suicide beforehand or die in a shootout with the cops.

I agree with you there. I think he drove off in another car.

50 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:03:15pm

re: #47 FemNaziBitch

He’s probably in Mexico by now …

I don’t think so. Can’t be a martyr by hiding in another country.

51 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:03:45pm

re: #16 SpaceJesus

There is a very happy plaintiff’s attorney somewhere in LA right now

2 of em.

The LAPD lost so much credibility in this fiasco.

52 dragonfire1981  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:05:04pm

re: #47 FemNaziBitch

He’s probably in Mexico by now …

I’ve considered that but given his goals I think it’s more likely he’ll stay near Southern California. He can’t kill LA cops in Mexico or Canada. He’s got a specific mission at the moment and I don’t think he’ll let it go easily. This is not a man looking to escape, this is a man looking to settle a grudge.

53 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:05:26pm

re: #46 dragonfire1981

I’m thinking Dorner is long gone from Big Bear by now. He’s not stupid enough to hang around after leaving his truck there. He had another vehicle, that’s almost a guarantee.

I wonder if he’s heading back south or if he’s gone further north.

One thing I don’t wonder about: Dorner won’t allow himself to be taken. He’ll either commit suicide beforehand or die in a shootout with the cops.

I’m pretty sure he’s long gone from the Big Bear area, and is likely stalking his next target.

54 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:05:41pm

re: #51 Skeetghazi

2 of em.

The LAPD lost so much credibility in this fiasco.

Four teams of them. Every attorney spontaneously generates an anti-attorney.

JOBS !!!1!

55 dragonfire1981  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:05:58pm

re: #51 Skeetghazi

2 of em.

The LAPD lost so much credibility in this fiasco.

So in a way Dorner has already accomplished some of what he wanted to do.

56 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:05:59pm

re: #47 FemNaziBitch

He’s probably in Mexico by now …

The border back up on Friday was insane. They were checking every car.

And a large black man would stand out like crazy down there.

Wondering how much money he has?

57 Sionainn  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:06:45pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Dorner’s pickup was a grey Nissan. The two hispanic women’s pickup was royal blue Toyota. Perdue’s pickup was a black Honda.

Nissan Titans don’t look anything like any other pickup trucks. Are these guys blind?

58 dragonfire1981  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:06:49pm

re: #56 Skeetghazi

The border back up on Friday was insane. They were checking every car.

And a large black man would stand out like crazy down there.

Wondering how much money he has?

If this was well planned (and all signs indicate it was), then probably quite a bit. At least $10 000 at his disposal I’d wager.

59 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:08:27pm

re: #45 FemNaziBitch

Try to distinguish car colors next time you are out driving at night or day. It’s not so easy to distinquish similar colors/hues of neutral tones. Teal or Orange is easier in the day, but a Black, gray, beige even red can be very difficult, especially at night.

Okay, let’s assume for arguments sake that everything looked grey for some reason, God hit the desaturate filter on the giant Photoshop layer that is life. That still doesn’t explain the police failing to notice the different makes and model, and it especially doesn’t justify their complete failure to read and match the two license plates before opening fire on the occupants without warning.

60 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:11:34pm

re: #59 goddamnedfrank

Okay, let’s assume for arguments sake that everything looked grey for some reason, God hit the desaturate filter on the giant Photoshop layer that is life. That still doesn’t explain the police failing to notice the different makes and model, and it especially doesn’t justify their complete failure to read and match the two license plates before opening fire on the occupants without warning.

Yes, that part I agree with. I think they know the makes and models rather well.

I don’t really understand any justification for opening fire, it seems, at will.

61 Mich-again  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:12:29pm

re: #59 goddamnedfrank

Okay, let’s assume for arguments sake that everything looked grey for some reason, God hit the desaturate filter on the giant Photoshop layer that is life. That still doesn’t explain the police failing to notice the different makes and model, and it especially doesn’t justify their complete failure to read and match the two license plates before opening fire on the occupants without warning.

Maybe those Yosemite Sam cops were on a sugar high?

62 A Mom Anon  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:13:51pm

re: #59 goddamnedfrank

Also, if this was this dude’s truck, wouldn’t it be registered to him? Wouldn’t the plate number lead back to him? I simply do not get how the cops, who have access to the DMV database couldn’t know what vehicle they were looking for.

Hell, I got a speeding ticket last year and it took the cop less than a minute to come up with my name and address. In fact, he addressed me by name when he asked for my license, registraion and insurance info. So, WTF?

63 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:15:08pm

They are on a man-hunt for one of their own turned cop-killer. It’s an action movie and video game all rolled into one for them.

And each individual cop sees themselves as the star.

64 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:15:20pm

re: #62 A Mom Anon

Also, if this was this dude’s truck, wouldn’t it be registered to him? Wouldn’t the plate number lead back to him? I simply do not get how the cops, who have access to the DMV database couldn’t know what vehicle they were looking for.

It’s presumed that he’s trading out license plates. Which he should be, because while he’s snapped to crazy land he’s not an idiot. I assume that ski rack came off almost immediately, too.

65 jamesfirecat  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:17:31pm

re: #23 Targetpractice

Makes me wonder if the description going around is a “dark pick-up truck, make/model unknown.”

Subject is hatless, I repeate hatless…

66 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:18:26pm

re: #63 FemNaziBitch

They are on a man-hunt for one of their own turned cop-killer. It’s an action movie and video game all rolled into one for them.

And each individual cop sees themselves as the star.

THIS!!!!

67 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:20:35pm

Good grief, the LAPD is going to kill someone if they done calm the fuck down.

68 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:22:40pm

The thing that pisses me off most though is the initial bullshit coverup that Torrance attempted. First pretending that the incident had nothing to do with the Dorner hunt, then flat out stating that the reason for the shooting was the officers thought Perdue was Doner. Then outright lying in stating that Perdue’s truck was heading straight for one of their cars, refusing to yield, and implying that he hit them in stating that the cars then collided.

Perdue’s truck has no front end damage at all, from the photos it’s pretty obvious he was taken out from the drivers side rear and spun sideways. Later the TPD admitted that the police deliberately initiated the collision. They had so much fucking contempt for the public and the truth that they thought for awhile that they could tell such a blatant lie and just see if it might fly.

I can almost find it in my heart to forgive the officers who were scared shitless at the scene, almost. But the department spokesperson and leadership who okayed such a thin, transparent, bullshit confabulation to try and reverse some of the blame onto Perdue, those people need to lose their jobs immediately. You simply shouldn’t be able to purposely abuse the public trust so egregiously and continue to be employed by the people, it’s antithetical to everything a democracy is supposed to be about.

69 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:24:14pm

re: #68 goddamnedfrank

The thing that pisses me off most though is the initial bullshit coverup that Torrance attempted. First pretending that the incident had nothing to do with the Dorner hunt, then flat out stating that the reason for the shooting was the officers thought Perdue was Doner. Then outright lying in stating that Perdue’s truck was heading straight for one of their cars, refusing to yield, and implying that he hit them in stating that the cars then collided.

Perdue’s truck has no front end damage at all, from the photos it’s pretty obvious he was taken out from the drivers side rear and spun sideways. Later the TPD admitted that the police deliberately initiated the collision. They had so much fucking contempt for the public and the truth that they thought for awhile that they could tell such a blatant lie and just see if it might fly.

I can almost find it in my heart to forgive the officers who were scared shitless at the scene, almost. But the department spokesperson and leadership who okayed such a thin, transparent, bullshit confabulation to try and reverse some of the blame onto Perdue, those people need to lose their jobs immediately. You simply shouldn’t be able to so purposely abuse the public trust so egregiously and continue to be employed by the people, it’s antithetical to everything a democracy is supposed to be about.

Kinda puts every death by cop because you were going after them at question.

Its always been a question, but damn these Officers are caught red handed lying.

70 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:25:36pm

re: #46 dragonfire1981

I’m thinking Dorner is long gone from Big Bear by now. He’s not stupid enough to hang around after leaving his truck there. He had another vehicle, that’s almost a guarantee.

I wonder if he’s heading back south or if he’s gone further north.

My guess is Las Vegas. I think I read that he obtained some of his weapons there. And with a change of clothing, the more bizarre the better, anybody can blend in.

71 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:26:28pm

re: #68 goddamnedfrank

Having lived in Torrance, I will tell you that the cops there are, IMHO always very aggressive, and proud of it.

72 jaunte  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:27:35pm
73 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:28:09pm

re: #71 Dancing along the light of day

Having lived in Torrance, I will tell you that the cops there are, IMHO always very aggressive, and proud of it.

Factoid: I was born in Torrance and my family felt safer living in Inglewood.

74 efuseakay  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:32:25pm

Phew. The WND patriots are on the case!

Brennan is a *gasp* MUSLIM!!!!!!!!

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75 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:33:11pm

By the way, Jim Hoft never posted a correction for that infamous fake photo he trotted out yesterday. There are a few more comments today (he wiped out a couple of dozen), and they’re asking why he posted the fake photo again.

He’s deliberately ignoring it.

76 Sionainn  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:34:09pm

re: #70 wrenchwench

My guess is Las Vegas. I think I read that he obtained some of his weapons there. And with a change of clothing, the more bizarre the better, anybody can blend in.

Don’t tell me that!

77 dragonath  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:34:32pm

At this rate, the LAPD couldn’t do worse if they scrounged up Judge Doom and the weasels.

78 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:35:17pm

OT: A guy tried to refuse being taken to the hospital because he didn’t have insurance. They took him anyway and now he owes $40,000.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

He had a head injury, so they really had no choice but to bring him in, he couldn’t meaningfully give consent. You could argue, though, that nobody who’s just been in an accident can meaningfully consent, head injury or no— shock will make you do weird stuff.

So basically, he wanted to do what the Randites want, but it shows that it just doesn’t work— too often medical cases remove the ability to consent. He’ll probably wind up paying a percentage, and Medicaid and the hospital (which is a non-profit) will split the rest of the costs, meaning that tax-payers and people with insurance will pay for his costs.

So we already have socialized health insurance, we just have a really fucking inefficient form of it. The problem hasn’t gone away. This is one of the many problems that can’t be solved as long as the GOP is run by extremists and/or as long as they retain control of as many state legislatures as they do.

79 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:35:30pm

IMHO, cops have a difficult time admitting fault.

80 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:36:18pm

re: #79 FemNaziBitch

IMHO, cops have a difficult time admitting fault.

So do we all.

81 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:37:19pm

re: #80 erik_t

So do we all.

not so

82 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:37:42pm

re: #79 FemNaziBitch

IMHO, cops have a difficult time admitting fault.

Thankfully, I hate being wrong.
So I tend to quickly admit when I am wrong.
:)

83 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:37:55pm

re: #78 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Your nic is making me giggle!

84 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:39:16pm

re: #76 Ghost of Sionainn

Don’t tell me that!

If he went there, it would be to lay low until he could sneak back to LA and continue his mission. Or decide to give himself up.

85 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:39:28pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

Thankfully, I hate being wrong.
So I tend to quickly admit when I am wrong.
:)

I learned along time ago that it is not a sign of weakness and one wastes quite about of time constructing false arguments trying to “save face”. I’m human, I make mistakes, I learn from them.

86 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:39:53pm

re: #79 FemNaziBitch

IMHO, cops have a difficult time admitting fault.

Having worked with them, police officers are first and foremost people. There’s really nothing that all the testing and training can do to alter that basic fact. They’re prone to all the psychological and sociological bullshit that plagues other facets of human society.

We should stop worshiping them and realize that they’re just as varied and flawed as the rest of us.

87 b_sharp  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:40:47pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

Thankfully, I hate being wrong.
So I tend to quickly admit when I am wrong.
:)

I make it a rule never to admit an error. I always blame somebody else.

88 Sionainn  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:40:49pm

re: #84 wrenchwench

If he went there, it would be to lay low until he could sneak back to LA and continue his mission. Or decide to give himself up.

I’m on the far northwest outskirts, about as far from the Strip as one can get…which would be a great place to lie low. Ugh.

89 efuseakay  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:41:18pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

Thankfully, I hate being wrong.
So I tend to quickly admit when I am wrong.
:)

I hate being wrong too. That’s why I don’t do it ever.

90 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:41:41pm

re: #86 goddamnedfrank

Having worked with them, police officers are first and foremost people. There’s really nothing that all the testing and training can do to alter that basic fact. They’re prone to all the psychological and sociological bullshit that plagues other facets of human society.

We should stop worshiping them and realize that they’re just as varied and flawed as the rest of us.

I know I would never want to be a cop. They have a thankless job and can never be “regular people”.

91 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:41:49pm

re: #85 FemNaziBitch

I learned along time ago that it is not a sign of weakness and one wastes quite about of time constructing false arguments trying to “save face”. I’m human, I make mistakes, I learn from them.

I’m human enough to admit that I don’t like admitting my mistakes, but I do it anyway (once I’ve smacked my gut emotional response down) because it doesn’t change anything to pretend I am not wrong when I am.

92 Sionainn  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:41:56pm

re: #88 Ghost of Sionainn

I’m on the far northwest outskirts, about as far from the Strip as one can get…which would be a great place to lie low. Ugh.

…and the opposite end of town from where his house is…

93 A Mom Anon  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:42:49pm

re: #86 goddamnedfrank

That goes for anyone in a place of power. Politicians ,cops, teachers, religious leaders, bosses, whoever. Everyone is flawed and stupid in some way, some more than others, but no one is immune.

94 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:42:59pm

re: #87 b_sharp

I make it a rule never to admit an error. I always blame somebody else.

I have a t-shirt that says “I didn’t say it was your fault, I said I was going to blame you.” It works for a wide variety of occasions.

95 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:43:03pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

By the way, Jim Hoft never posted a correction for that infamous fake photo he trotted out yesterday. There are a few more comments today (he wiped out a couple of dozen), and they’re asking why he posted the fake photo again.

He’s deliberately ignoring it.

Hoft is working the “tell a lie long enough and people will believe it’s true” angle.

It’s all the RWNJs have.

96 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:43:31pm

re: #92 Ghost of Sionainn

…and the opposite end of town from where his house is…

The authorities will be watching his property in LV closely just in case he turns up there.

He’ll need to find somewhere else to hide.

97 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:44:12pm

re: #93 A Mom Anon

That goes for anyone in a place of power. Politicians ,cops, teachers,or other. religious leaders, bosses, whoever. Everyone is flawed and stupid in some way, some more than others, but no one is immune.

It’s worse when admission of fault could lead to a liability suit for not just you, but your employer. I think Doctors keep their lips sealed for this reason when sometimes they don’t want to.

98 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:44:13pm

re: #74 efuseakay

Phew. The WND patriots are on the case!

Brennan is a *gasp* MUSLIM!!!!!!!!

[Link: freerepublic.com…]

BOOGA BOOGA!!!

/

99 Sionainn  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:45:37pm

re: #96 Dr Lizardo

The authorities will be watching his property in LV closely just in case he turns up there.

He’ll need to find somewhere else to hide.

Exactly.

100 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:45:52pm

re: #95 TedStriker

Hoft is working the “tell a lie long enough and people will believe it’s true” angle.

It’s all the RWNJs have.

Ronald Reagan was a Muslim.
True story.

101 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:47:53pm

re: #96 Dr Lizardo

The authorities will be watching his property in LV closely just in case he turns up there.

He’ll need to find somewhere else to hide.

I don’t think he’s dumb enough to try that.

102 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:48:19pm

re: #96 Dr Lizardo

The authorities will be watching his property in LV closely just in case he turns up there.

He’ll need to find somewhere else to hide.

I’d just as soon have the cops find Dorner and take him into custody without a bunch of civilians (or Dorner) becoming victims of “accidents” or “unfortunate incidents”.

103 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:49:39pm

Fox News is droning on about Benghazi. “It’s shocking!”

It is the only thing they can find?

104 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:50:10pm

At this rate, the LAPD is going to kill more people than Dorner ever did.

105 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:51:20pm

My NPR station replayed this old episode of Radiolab this morning and it’s kind of apropos.

Can we lie to ourselves? If you are the liar, wouldn’t you know the truth? In this segment, we explore the confusing and contradictory idea of self-deception. We go back to the early 70s, when psychiatrists Harold Sackeim and Ruben Gur came up with a set of embarrassing questions that they say reveal the lies we tell ourselves. Psychologist Joanna Starek tells us that swimmers who lie to themselves swim faster than those who do not. And we explore the power of self-deception to make us more successful, and happier, people.

It’s not just cops and swimmers. If you look it up the studies show that both success and optimism tend to correlate strongly with a certain degree of self deception. Conversely people who see the world as it is tend to be at least a little bit more depressed.

106 Amory Blaine  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:51:31pm

Not that I have sympathy for killers or anything but I wonder if the guy lied out on the street naked would they still shoot him? The exhibited behavior makes me wonder if justice is even possible.

107 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:51:52pm

The term Reckless seems applicable.

What does this tell you about people who are trained to handle themselves and firearms and yet a chunk of them panic at the thought that they might actually not be the top of the food chain.

Shoot first, and if innocent people die, really, the police were defending themselves.

Sovereign immunity may apply. So really, the police and states can literally get away with murder unless they consent to being sued.

108 Skip Intro  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:52:13pm

re: #14 Mich-again

Well its a good thing Dorner burned his blue pickup truck to the ground so the police could stop firing at vehicles matching that description. Hopefully he doesn’t somehow steal a police car next.

Hmm. I’ve got a blue pickup. Guess I better go park it in the garage in case the local PD didn’t get them memo. I’m not in the mood to have a SWAT team break in for dinner.

109 Jan Smiddy  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:52:30pm

Dorner claims he was fired for telling the truth about a culture of corruption.

Torrance cops lie too.

Dorner also claims he was fired for reporting brutality, punished by an institutional bias that defends its own regardless of the facts.

Twitchy cops enfillade a vehicle. Wound “suspect” civilian who look nothing like him.

Who is proven correct? Cops lie. Under oath. As a matter of “professional” necessity.

As far as they are concerned it is just fine.

Sorry. But with the exception of his innocent victims whom he is suspected, not convicted, of allegedly killing, I find it hard to consider the tax funded gangsters the “heroes” in this scenario.

Anyone else ever been arrested? They are vicious motherfuckers. And they lie quite easily and naturally.

Think the police are your friends? Unless you have been on the receiving end of their petty abuse of “justice” you will never get it.

110 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:53:37pm

re: #105 goddamnedfrank

My NPR station replayed this old episode of Radiolab this morning and it’s kind of apropos.

It’s not just cops and swimmers. If you look it up the studies show that both success and optimism tend to correlate strongly with a certain degree of self deception. Conversely people who see the world as it is tend to be at least a little bit more depressed.

Pessimists are most often right. Optimists have the most fun So it’s best to be a pessimist by policy and an optimist by temperament. - Robert A. Heinlein.

111 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:54:04pm

re: #109 Jan Smiddy

Nice broad brush you’ve got going on there.

:rollseyes:

112 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:54:24pm

Musing a downding for “tax funded gangsters”. Let’s not get carried away, folks.

113 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:54:57pm

re: #102 TedStriker

I’d just as soon have the cops find Dorner and take him into custody without a bunch of civilians (or Dorner) becoming victims of “accidents” or “unfortunate incidents”.

That goes without saying. I find that a remote possibility, but you never know.

114 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:55:54pm

re: #112 erik_t

Musing a downding for “tax funded gangsters”. Let’s not get carried away, folks.

The NFL?
///

115 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:57:13pm

re: #114 Varek Raith

The NFL?
///

Well-played, sir.

116 ProBosniaLiberal  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:57:33pm

I see Aligarr has revealed himself to be an Anti-Muslim Bigot.

Not surprised.

117 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:57:46pm

re: #109 Jan Smiddy

Hey you’ve got a problem with your brush there. It’s too broad.

118 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:57:54pm

re: #107 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

The term Reckless seems applicable.

What does this tell you about people who are trained to handle themselves and firearms and yet a chunk of them panic at the thought that they might actually not be the top of the food chain.

Shoot first, and if innocent people die, really, the police were defending themselves.

Sovereign immunity may apply. So really, the police and states can literally get away with murder unless they consent to being sued.

I also think that many, many of them on on steroids. I’ve seen the most buff cops lately. Abnormally.

119 Jan Smiddy  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:58:10pm

Caveat. Many cops. Not all. Are sociopathic motherfuckers.

120 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:59:02pm

Oy.

121 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 3:59:55pm

re: #117 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Hey you’ve got a problem with your brush there. It’s too broad.

As wide as an interstate highway.

122 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:00:45pm

re: #119 Jan Smiddy

Caveat. Many cops. Not all. Are sociopathic motherfuckers.

Source? The plural of anecdote is not data.

123 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:01:53pm

re: #59 goddamnedfrank

Okay, let’s assume for arguments sake that everything looked grey for some reason, God hit the desaturate filter on the giant Photoshop layer that is life. That still doesn’t explain the police failing to notice the different makes and model, and it especially doesn’t justify their complete failure to read and match the two license plates before opening fire on the occupants without warning.

Even I can tell make & model by looking at taillights & trim. Any reader of Jalopnik could tell you in a second the make, model & year of any vehicle by side, front or rear view. Cops are supposed to be trained in this.

124 Lidane  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:01:57pm

OT but I thought it was interesting:

125 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:02:11pm

re: #119 Jan Smiddy

Nice way to give a toothless “correction” while doubling down; sounds like you’re carrying a hell of a grudge towards some cops.

That doesn’t make for very reasoned discussion.

126 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:02:50pm

re: #116 ProBosniaLiberal

I see Aligarr has revealed himself to be an Anti-Muslim Bigot.

Not surprised.

I knew that a long time ago. What took you so long?

127 Amory Blaine  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:03:32pm

re: #121 TedStriker

This guy.

128 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:03:44pm

re: #116 ProBosniaLiberal

I see Aligarr has revealed himself to be an Anti-Muslim Bigot.

Not surprised.

Where at?
*I already figured, just like to see*

129 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:04:45pm

re: #1 jaunte

David Perdue was on his way to sneak in some surfing before work Thursday morning when police flagged him down. They asked who he was and where he was headed, then sent him on his way.
Seconds later, Perdue’s attorney said, a Torrance police cruiser slammed into his pickup and officers opened fire…
…
Connie Rice, a civil rights attorney, said it’s not surprising when police make mistakes during manhunts.

“They don’t know where he is, and they’re going to be edgy and jumpy,” she said. “Don’t get in their way…”

Doesn’t sound as if she read Perdue’s story.

wait, is this the Connie Rice that is Condi’s cousin?

130 ProBosniaLiberal  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:05:06pm

re: #126 Vicious Babushka

Him outright saying it.

I was giving benefit of the doubt. And..

re: #128 Varek Raith

on the same page that Destro revealed himself to be a fascist.

131 Jan Smiddy  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:05:21pm

Broad brushes. Wake up. Roll your eyes. No knock raids. Paid criminal informants. Mistaken ID. Rolling round ups.

When you get grabbed then we will talk.

Real eye opener.

I have friends and family on the job. Real fun stories.

Remember the old joke: a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged?

Try police custody before you roll your eyes.

The corruption Dorner railed against is real. Wake up. The media and the usual low information cheerleaders for law and order will ignore the trigger and only focus on the crimes. Alleged crimes.

It do we follow the Napoleonic Code now?

132 Kronocide  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:05:33pm

re: #117 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Hey you’ve got a problem with your brush there. It’s too broad.

When they get that big they call them ‘brooms.’

133 Amory Blaine  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:06:15pm

re: #124 Lidane

Bahh a favorite bourbon of mine. QQ

134 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:08:07pm

re: #119 Jan Smiddy

Caveat. Many cops. Not all. Are sociopathic motherfuckers.

There aren’t enough sociopaths in the population. Calm the fuck down.

My friend Deanik just died recently. He was a cop in New London. He was a straight shooter in every way and completely intolerant of corruption— one of the reasons he chose New London, since it had a reputation as a clean house. Lots of police departments do. Like many things, it’s a case of like-hiring-like.

It can be really hard to root out corruption and incompetence in the police, but there is absolutely no point in the us vs. them mentality you’re spreading. I am one of the first to say we need serious change in our legal system, but by far and large the faults of that stem from the laws we ask the cops to enforce and the prosecutors who guide the behavior of the cops.

Stop shitting on the ordinary working cop and set your sights a bit higher.

135 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:08:50pm

re: #132 Kronocide

When they get that big they call them ‘brooms.’

Crop dusters full of paint.

136 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:09:45pm

re: #131 Jan Smiddy

You might do more good to say what your own experience is than to say Dorner’s word should be accepted at face value. Whatever might be true of his account is ruined by the fact that he’s clearly not right in the head.

137 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:10:21pm

re: #131 Jan Smiddy

I’ve been in police custody multiple times, twice because I was being a complete asshole, and was treated fine each time.

Gee, it’s almost like extrapolating from your personal experience is fucking stupid.

138 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:10:31pm

Why do I keep thinking about Serpico?

139 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:11:01pm

re: #137 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I’ve been in police custody multiple times, twice because I was being a complete asshole, and was treated fine each time.

Gee, it’s almost like extrapolating from your personal experience is fucking stupid.

Bad, Obdi, bad!

140 Jan Smiddy  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:13:59pm

Show data? Do your own research. Start with Will Grigg and his Pro Libertate blog. He has been documenting police abuse for over ten years. My own experience comes from living with cops and their stories.

Trust me. Police are not your friends. Nor do they even like you. Civilians are the enemy. Don’t want to believe it? I don’t care.

Just can’t wait until you piss them off. Be sure to keep your mouth shut. They don’t care for lip.

141 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:14:09pm
142 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:15:05pm

I think what is apparent is that on an emotional level, a lot of people don’t trust cops.

The situation in LA might reinforce those emotions and could lead to a very bad ending.

We can’t feed into it.

143 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:15:11pm

re: #130 ProBosniaLiberal

Him outright saying it.

I was giving benefit of the doubt. And..

re: #128 Varek Raith

on the same page that Destro revealed himself to be a fascist.

Do not confuse ATTENTION QUEEN with outright fascist.

Attention queens look for buttons to push, and push them. If they get called “Fascist! Racist!” it is honey to their ears. WHEE! ATTENTION!

144 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:16:06pm

re: #143 Vicious Babushka

Do not confuse ATTENTION QUEEN with outright fascist.

Attention queens look for buttons to push, and push them. If they get called “Fascist! Racist!” it is honey to their ears. WHEE! ATTENTION!

Fascist has become a synonym for “cooties”.

:0

145 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:17:05pm

re: #140 Jan Smiddy

Is that the same Will Grigg who was a prominent John Birch Society member and author, by any chance?

146 Amory Blaine  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:18:08pm

Bob Ross has a very soothing voice. I can’t tell you how many wonderful naps he’s guided me to while lying on the couch.

147 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:18:18pm

re: #138 FemNaziBitch

Why do I keep thinking about Serpico?

I’m sure that, in his mind, Dorner fancies himself as a 21st-century Serpico.

However, whatever legitimate beefs that Dorner had with the LAPD over how he lost his job are eclipsed by the fact that he’s decided to play judge, jury, and executioner against former colleagues he felt had wronged him.

148 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:18:34pm

re: #145 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut


Why yes, yes it is.

[Link: www.willgrigg.com…]

An award-winning investigative journalist, William Norman Grigg was the senior editor and a prolific contributor to The New American, the official magazine of the John Birch Society. His writing reflects views heavily influenced by constitutionalism, libertarianism, and anti-communism.

149 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:18:49pm

re: #140 Jan Smiddy

Show data? Do your own research. Start with Will Grigg and his Pro Libertate blog. He has been documenting police abuse for over ten years. My own experience comes from living with cops and their stories.

Trust me. Police are not your friends. Nor do they even like you. Civilians are the enemy. Don’t want to believe it? I don’t care.

Just can’t wait until you piss them off. Be sure to keep your mouth shut. They don’t care for lip.

That’s not how it works. You make the claim, you get to back it up. I would appreciate a study as opposed to anecdotes, again. Anecdotes != data.

A decent amount of the discussion here has involved the fact that cops are in fact fallible and there are bad apples. You started claiming something more than that, that all cops are bad. That’s why you’ve gotten the pushback you have.

150 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:19:05pm

re: #145 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Is that the same Will Grigg who was a prominent John Birch Society member and author, by any chance?

Yeppers.

151 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:19:58pm

re: #148 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Why yes, yes it is.

[Link: www.willgrigg.com…]

up ding for paying attention!!!

:0

152 Amory Blaine  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:20:49pm

re: #146 Amory Blaine

Bob Ross has a very soothing voice. I can’t tell you how many wonderful naps he’s guided me to while lying on the couch.

Apparently I’m not the only one.

153 ProBosniaLiberal  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:20:57pm

re: #143 Vicious Babushka

See though, his behavior is consistant across time on what he thinks. And et, fascist was an off-shot.

It would be better to call him an Authoritarian Leftist, along the lines on Sinn Finn or the Baathists. In addition, he seems to have a deep, deep connection to the Eastern Orthodox world. That would explain both the Antisemitism and the Anti-Muslim sentiment he has, along with his general anti-“west” attitude.

154 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:21:01pm

re: #140 Jan Smiddy

Are you more worried about the commies or the feminists, would you say?

I’m trying to decide whether I should read Grigg’s The Gospel of Revolt: Feminism Vs. the Family or America’s Engineered Decline

155 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:21:02pm

re: #145 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Is that the same Will Grigg who was a prominent John Birch Society member and author, by any chance?

It would be:

An award-winning investigative journalist, William Norman Grigg was the senior editor and a prolific contributor to The New American, the official magazine of the John Birch Society. His writing reflects views heavily influenced by constitutionalism, libertarianism, and anti-communism.

Mr. Grigg has written and co-produced several video documentaries, including Tragedy by Design (1997), Injustice for All: The International Criminal Court (1998), and Civilian Disarmament: Prelude to Tyranny (2000).

Jan, if you’re gonna pull Bircher “sources” like this out of your ass, you’d be best served by keeping it to yourself, because that shit doesn’t fly here.

156 122 Year Old Obama  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:21:03pm

re: #148 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

John Birch Society? Red Flag, raised.

157 Interesting Times  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:21:48pm

Now I find myself being reminded of laZardo and how he got banned after insisting on referring to all cops as “pigs”.

158 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:23:17pm

re: #144 FemNaziBitch

Fascist has become a synonym for “cooties”.

:0

George Orwell nailed that a long time ago.

[Link: orwell.ru…]

159 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:23:40pm

re: #147 TedStriker

I’m sure that, in his mind, Dorner fancies himself as a 21st-century Serpico.

However, whatever legitimate beefs that Dorner had with the LAPD over how he lost his job are eclipsed by the fact that he’s decided to play judge, jury, and executioner against former colleagues he felt had wronged him.

True, Serpico was targeted by his fellow officers—with Dorner it is the opposite.

IIRC.

160 thedopefishlives  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:24:49pm

Evening Lizardim.

161 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:24:56pm

re: #158 Dr Lizardo

George Orwell nailed that a long time ago.

[Link: orwell.ru…]

Yeah, there have been numerous discussions about the definition of Fascism here. I don’t think we were able to come up with anything better than Orwell did.

162 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:25:58pm

re: #153 ProBosniaLiberal

See though, his behavior is consistant across time on what he thinks. And et, fascist was an off-shot.

It would be better to call him an Authoritarian Leftist, along the lines on Sinn Finn or the Baathists. In addition, he seems to have a deep, deep connection to the Eastern Orthodox world. That would explain both the Antisemitism and the Anti-Muslim sentiment he has, along with his general anti-“west” attitude.

I don’t distinguish different breeds of asshole.

163 prairiefire  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:27:30pm

“Battleship” is on HBO. Lots of eye candy.

164 funky chicken  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:27:51pm

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Dorner’s pickup was a grey Nissan. The two hispanic women’s pickup was royal blue Toyota. Perdue’s pickup was a black Honda.

Buy American?

165 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:28:25pm

re: #164 funky chicken

Buy American?

I feel horrible, but that cracked me up so bad.

166 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:28:34pm

re: #163 prairiefire

“Battleship” is on HBO. Lots of eye candy.

I still think that Liam Neeson just did that one for the paycheck.

167 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:28:47pm

re: #163 prairiefire

Baking with Julia is on CreateTV. :)

168 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:28:52pm

I just finished the Librivox version of The Way of All Flesh by Samuel Butler. It was amazingly a timeless novel. At least, I think, it could be written today and be as accurate in it’s portrayal of Whacko™ Religious Thinking.

169 subterraneanhomesickalien  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:30:16pm

re: #153 ProBosniaLiberal

It would be better to call him an Authoritarian Leftist, along the lines on Sinn Finn or the Baathists

Do you mean Sinn Fein?

If so when did they become Authoritarian in any way?

170 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:30:27pm

re: #163 prairiefire

“Battleship” is on HBO. Lots of eye candy.

Walking Dead here.

So ready for it.

171 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:30:30pm

re: #161 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, there have been numerous discussions about the definition of Fascism here. I don’t think we were able to come up with anything better than Orwell did.

“Fascist” is an epithet bandied about, usually by loudmouths of various political stripes and all across the political spectrum.

As Orwell said, “bully” is perhaps the closest synonym in the popular imagination. It reminds me of a short line in “Captain America”, where the doc asks “So, you want to kill Nazis?” and Rogers replies, “No, sir. I don’t want to kill anyone. I just don’t like bullies.”

That was a great bit of dialogue in my book. Perfect given the time and place.

172 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:30:49pm

re: #166 TedStriker

I still think that Liam Neeson just did that one for the paycheck.

We all got bills to pay.

173 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:30:57pm

re: #156 122 Year Old Obama

John Birch Society? Red Flag, raised.

Damn yeah, raise the people’s flag of blood red with the rose of the SI in the center!

174 funky chicken  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:31:20pm

re: #147 TedStriker

I’m sure that, in his mind, Dorner fancies himself as a 21st-century Serpico.

However, whatever legitimate beefs that Dorner had with the LAPD over how he lost his job are eclipsed by the fact that he’s decided to play judge, jury, and executioner against former colleagues he felt had wronged him.

This episode makes me happy they fired him, actually. I wonder how many people he abused while he was a cop?

175 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:31:42pm

Kale recipes?

176 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:31:44pm

re: #173 William Barnett-Lewis

Damn yeah, raise the people’s flag of blood read with the rose of the SI in the center!

Man, I spend too much time with science. I was wondering what the international standard units (SI units) have to do with anything.

177 thedopefishlives  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:32:46pm

re: #175 Skeetghazi

Kale recipes?

Kill it with fire.

178 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:32:49pm

re: #170 Skeetghazi

Walking Dead here.

So ready for it.

I am reading “Temperature effects on non-bridging oxygen and aluminum coordination number in calcium aluminosilicate glasses and melts”.

I know you are all jealous.

179 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:33:28pm

re: #147 talon_262

I’m sure that, in his mind, Dorner fancies himself as a 21st-century Serpico.

However, whatever legitimate beefs that Dorner had with the LAPD over how he lost his job are eclipsed by the fact that he’s decided to play judge, jury, and executioner against former colleagues he felt had wronged him.

That he killed the daughter of the dude that “wronged” him speaks volumes. Horrific, revenge filled fuck up.

180 Amory Blaine  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:33:35pm

My wife is on a kale “kick”.

181 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:34:10pm

re: #178 klys

Waterford Crystal? I am just asking.

182 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:34:21pm

re: #177 Ghost of a Dopefish

Kill it with fire.

re: #180 Amory Blaine

My wife is on a kale “kick”.

So I saute it with garlic and onion?

183 ProBosniaLiberal  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:34:41pm

re: #162 Vicious Babushka

I do. Think of it like categorize species of animals.

Destro, for example, would be Constanpoli Baathesta.

184 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:35:58pm

I wonder whether it was the previous thread that first caught Jan Smiddy’s eye today.

185 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:36:15pm

re: #181 PhillyPretzel

Waterford Crystal? I am just asking.

My Ph.D. defense is four weeks from tomorrow.

I would think Waterford would be lead silicates though. Better clarity, lower working temperatures. Calcium aluminosilicates and aluminoborosilicates are much more common in LCD glass applications. And then you also find aluminosilicates in things like Gorilla Glass (read about cation stuffing yesterday as I troll the literature to be sure I’m up to date).

This is a reread though. One of my advisor’s papers, basis for one of the chapters in my thesis.

186 funky chicken  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:36:30pm

re: #107 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

The term Reckless seems applicable.

What does this tell you about people who are trained to handle themselves and firearms and yet a chunk of them panic at the thought that they might actually not be the top of the food chain.

Shoot first, and if innocent people die, really, the police were defending themselves.

Sovereign immunity may apply. So really, the police and states can literally get away with murder unless they consent to being sued.

It makes me think open carry laws like the one just passed here in OK are stupid. The last thing I want is to be in a mall or movie theater and have a bunch of “heroes” shooting up the place in response to a perceived threat.

187 Amory Blaine  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:36:58pm

re: #182 Skeetghazi

She steams it then salts it and eats it. Maybe a little butter.

188 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:38:03pm

re: #180 Amory Blaine

Try Cooks Illustrated. They got a bunch of recipes. [Link: www.cooksillustrated.com…]

189 funky chicken  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:38:41pm

I’ve read that kale, white bean and sausage soup is good. I’m not a big kale person myself, but try epicurious.com or cookinglight.com for recipes.

190 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:39:27pm

re: #185 klys

Okay. I have heard of Gorilla Glass and know it has quite a few uses.

191 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:41:01pm

re: #190 PhillyPretzel

Okay. I have heard of Gorilla Glass and know it has quite a few uses.

There’s a rather famous one called the iPhone. :)

Glass is a fascinating material with so much more to it than most people know, but there’s still so much we don’t know. There are still so many things that are found through trial and error. Although I can’t speak for sure for Corning because a ton of that stuff is under trade secret status.

But that just means if I figure it out for myself I can publish it. :D

192 Amory Blaine  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:41:02pm

re: #188 PhillyPretzel

Thanks!! I just e-mailed her the link.

193 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:45:17pm

re: #179 Skeetghazi

That he killed the daughter of the dude that “wronged” him speaks volumes. Horrific, revenge filled fuck up.

Indeed.

I don’t think Dorner is insane, his actions are of someone who knows exactly what they’re doing and its consequences.

194 Lidane  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:45:36pm

re: #170 Skeetghazi

Walking Dead here.

So ready for it.

YES! Bring on the Dixon brothers. And The Governor finally becoming the absolute bastard that he is.

195 researchok  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:45:37pm

Hello, all

196 researchok  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:46:44pm

I needed a break from family insanity so I came here for a while.

Different variety of insanity.
//

197 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:47:06pm

re: #191 klys

Did you know that Christopher Wren built a glass apiary for Robert Hooke, designed by Wilkins? That thing had hella brainpower thrown at it.

198 Lidane  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:50:06pm

re: #193 TedStriker

Indeed.

I don’t think Dorner is insane, his actions are of someone who knows exactly what they’re doing and its consequences.

He’s not insane. He’s deliberately targeting the people he believes wronged him, and hurting them by targeting their loved ones too. That’s revenge, not raving psychosis.

199 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:50:27pm

re: #197 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Did you know that Christopher Wren built a glass apiary for Robert Hooke, designed by Wilkins? That thing had hella brainpower thrown at it.

That’s awesome.

From a technical perspective, I’m going to hazard a guess that it was the same type of material that we see today as common in window glass or containers (soda-lime silicate) because of the combination of lower working temperatures and reasonable chemical durability.

One of the working models of glass structure was first postulated in 1932.

200 Interesting Times  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:50:48pm

re: #196 researchok

Oooh! Read the comments on this page! It’ll give you a smug sense of vindication like nothing else ;)

201 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:51:02pm

BTW, I noticed that Jan skedaddled from the thread just as soon as we called bullshit on their Bircher reference in their last anti-cop post.

202 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:51:37pm

re: #194 Lidane

YES! Bring on the Dixon brothers. And The Governor finally becoming the absolute bastard that he is.

I asked earlier if someone has taken the twitter nic of “The Governor’s Eye”

do it

203 Lidane  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:54:04pm
204 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:54:22pm

re: #201 TedStriker

BTW, I noticed that Jan skedaddled from the thread just as soon as we called bullshit on their Bircher reference in their last anti-cop post.

Pity. I was hoping I could troll the troll with my socialist postings.

205 researchok  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:54:23pm

re: #200 Interesting Times

Kind of made my day.

Our world.

206 Lidane  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:55:57pm

re: #202 Skeetghazi

I asked earlier if someone has taken the twitter nic of “The Governor’s Eye”

do it

Hmm. That’s an idea. Don’t know if I can pull off the absolute bastard required for it, though.

207 austin_blue  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:56:56pm

re: #178 klys

I am reading “Temperature effects on non-bridging oxygen and aluminum coordination number in calcium aluminosilicate glasses and melts”.

I know you are all jealous.

Anorthite is a lovely feldspar.

208 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:57:25pm

re: #185 klys

My Ph.D. defense is four weeks from tomorrow.

I would think Waterford would be lead silicates though. Better clarity, lower working temperatures. Calcium aluminosilicates and aluminoborosilicates are much more common in LCD glass applications. And then you also find aluminosilicates in things like Gorilla Glass (read about cation stuffing yesterday as I troll the literature to be sure I’m up to date).

This is a reread though. One of my advisor’s papers, basis for one of the chapters in my thesis.

Yay, I actually have learned something in grad school, enough to make reasonable deductions!

Waterford Crystal makes crystal.

The addition of lead oxide to glass raises its refractive index and lowers its working temperature and viscosity.

It’s SCIENCE.

209 darthstar  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:57:30pm

Hey everyone…hope you all had a good Sunday. Had a nice day with the missus…ran the dogs on the beach, pruned the roses, then took a quick drive down the coast to Santa Cruz to pick up some fabric for a table-cloth, nom on some really good pupusas, and walk along the cliffs and check out the surfers. I need to go down there to surf…their breaks last for hundreds of yards…the stuff up here closes out really fast by comparison, which is tough for a novice surfer like myself. Already got buy-in from my wife to squeeze in some week-day surf trips after I do my morning job search…life’s all about balance. An hour down, an hour on the water, and an hour home. Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

210 darthstar  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:57:57pm

re: #203 Lidane

Take two ribs and call me in the morning.

211 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 4:58:29pm

re: #207 austin_blue

Anorthite is a lovely feldspar.

I am such a crappy geologist, I think of anorthite as CAS25.25.50.

The irony, of course, is that my Ph.D. will be in geology. But my MS is in matsci and my undergrad in chemistry. It’s called I can’t stick to a damn field.

212 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:00:30pm

re: #209 darthstar

Did you get down for the Mavericks contest?

213 Lidane  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:01:14pm

Heh:

214 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:01:21pm

Just downloaded my next few audiobooks.

Most from Librivox.

Life is good.

215 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:02:22pm

re: #214 FemNaziBitch

Just downloaded my next few audiobooks.

Most from Librivox.

Life is good.

I adore audiobooks. My commute is too long.

216 austin_blue  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:02:40pm

re: #211 klys

I am such a crappy geologist, I think of anorthite as CAS25.25.50.

The irony, of course, is that my Ph.D. will be in geology. But my MS is in matsci and my undergrad in chemistry. It’s called I can’t stick to a damn field.

All of the rest of us idjits had to memorize this:

Image: File:Feldspar_series.jpg

217 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:03:06pm

re: #215 klys

I adore audiobooks. My commute is too long.

I hate audiobooks. Love Mozart, Beethoven & Wagner.

218 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:04:11pm

re: #217 Vicious Babushka

I hate audiobooks. Love Mozart, Beethoven & Wagner.

I love music too. I alternate. :)

219 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:04:47pm

re: #216 austin_blue

Link does not work.

220 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:05:00pm

re: #198 Lidane

He’s not insane. He’s deliberately targeting the people he believes wronged him, and hurting them by targeting their loved ones too. That’s revenge, not raving psychosis.

Indeed, this guy’s chosen his targets and he’s planned this all out to get them. He’s not just randomly shooting people or engaging in acts of destruction. There’s a purpose to his actions, which one would argue is scarier than the Holmes and Loughners of the world.

221 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:05:06pm

re: #216 austin_blue

All of the rest of us idjits had to memorize this:

Image: File:Feldspar_series.jpg

It won’t load for me. Which is a bummer, because it would probably be helpful in review. :(

I’m fairly certain that going to grad school qualifies me as an idiot.

222 darthstar  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:06:07pm

re: #212 Dancing along the light of day

Did you get down for the Mavericks contest?

Yeah, we walked across the street for that one. Waves were only 15-18’ this time…but there will be some more big days before the season craps out. I’ll go get pics when that happens. It really is quite something when the 40 footers are rolling through…never catch me in that.

223 austin_blue  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:07:49pm

re: #221 klys

It won’t load for me. Which is a bummer, because it would probably be helpful in review. :(

I’m fairly certain that going to grad school qualifies me as an idiot.

This?

Image: Feldspar_series.jpg

224 darthstar  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:09:50pm

Ha!

Image: 282792_10151283063961275_1641948929_n.jpg

225 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:10:01pm

re: #223 austin_blue

This?

Image: Feldspar_series.jpg

Oooo, I know sanidine. Worked on a sanidine glass! Also one that was slightly more potassium rich. Which was a bitch to melt.

I also know celsian.

Crystal structures, on the other hand, matter not at all. Because they don’t exist in my world.

226 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:11:02pm

re: #224 darthstar

Ha!

Image: 282792_10151283063961275_1641948929_n.jpg

Nice looking couple.

227 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:14:01pm

well said

228 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:15:03pm

*FACE PALM*
These morans actually think they are the “makers” and everyone else are the “takers.” At the same time, they applaud and cheer Walmart & similar corporations who cut employees hours and lay people off (especially if they think they are democrats) in order to not provide health care.
Buncha fucking Ayn Randers.

229 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:17:02pm

re: #228 Vicious Babushka

*FACE PALM*
These morans actually think they are the “makers” and everyone else are the “takers.” At the same time, they applaud and cheer Walmart & similar corporations who cut employees hours and lay people off (especially if they think they are democrats) in order to not provide health care.
Buncha fucking Ayn Randers.

democRATS never work, durrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

230 Interesting Times  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:17:57pm

re: #228 Vicious Babushka

I’m tempted to reply with the chart showing red states suck off the govt teat far more than blue ones, but that will likely result in me being buried by an avalanche of retaliatory DERP.

231 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:18:38pm

re: #229 klys

democRATS never work, durrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

And whenever they DO have jrrbs, it’s them YOOYUN JRBBZ!1!

232 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:21:25pm

re: #228 Vicious Babushka

Still a stupid sign though.

233 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:21:38pm

Edited: not sure my meaning came across how I wanted, can’t figure out what I meant to say, withdrawing.

234 jaunte  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:23:18pm
235 Lidane  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:26:04pm

re: #228 Vicious Babushka

*FACE PALM*
These morans actually think they are the “makers” and everyone else are the “takers.”

Well, duh. They have jobs and don’t take welfare, don’tcha know. That automatically makes them the “Makers”.

/////////// x infinity

236 Interesting Times  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:26:05pm

Bwahaha (you might have to think about it for a moment):

237 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:27:04pm

re: #234 jaunte

Cracks me up that these anti-USPS idiots think of themselves as ‘constitutionalists’. The Constitution calls for a postal service, and deliberately avoids a standing army.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

238 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:29:38pm

Huckabee guest physician talking about Obamacare —

“it isn’t insurance, it’s a benefit package, people need to understand this”

What?

239 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:30:32pm

re: #237 Decatur Deb

Cracks me up that these anti-USPS idiots think of themselves as ‘constitutionalists’. The Constitution calls for a postal service, and deliberately avoids a standing army.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

The market has shrunk. No amount of re-orging or magic fairy dust is going to change that the USPS doesn’t have the market it used to have and never will.

240 jaunte  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:30:40pm

re: #237 Decatur Deb

They’d probably be ok with a post office that didn’t involve human jobs and pensions. Maybe drones.

241 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:32:55pm

re: #239 FemNaziBitch

The market has shrunk. No amount of re-orging or magic fairy dust is going to change that the USPS doesn’t have the market it used to have and never will.

It’s not part of a market, it’s a public utility, pretty much the first. The Army doesn’t turn a profit either.

242 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:34:16pm

re: #241 Decatur Deb

It’s not part of a market, it’s a public utility, pretty much the first. The Army doesn’t turn a profit either.

Well not if you’re not pillaging properly!

/

243 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:35:28pm

Kos kidz are really excited about this for some reason
EXCLUSIVE: David Petraeus was brought down after betrayal by vengeful CIA agents and his own bodyguards who made sure his affair was exposed, claims new book
I seems to me the whole thing is possible, none of the claims seem that outlandish and most of them have been heard before. Petraeus’ affair was probably an open secret. The authors seem like decent guys but they don’t seem particularly high up in the chain of command and it seems unlikely to me that a well informed CIA/NSA executive with inside info is going to spill the beans to some young Seal or Green Beret. They might have picked up some office gossip but nothing I’d take too seriously.

244 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:35:34pm

re: #242 erik_t

Well not if you’re not pillaging properly!

/

Damn Iraqis refused to pay. Didn’t come up with the flowers, either.

245 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:35:40pm

Let’s see anyone pillage with a postal service. Army stays, damnit!

246 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:35:42pm

re: #241 Decatur Deb

It’s not part of a market, it’s a public utility, pretty much the first. The Army doesn’t turn a profit either.

hmmm, the communication’s market? People are using email and electronic communication instead of mailing letters, reports and such.

The need for the USPS has shrunk.

247 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:36:16pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

That’s the Daily Mail.

248 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:36:53pm

re: #246 FemNaziBitch

hmmm, the communication’s market? People are using email and electronic communication instead of mailing letters, reports and such.

The need for the USPS has shrunk.

Unless, like much of the world, it is given the telecoms business.

249 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:37:00pm

re: #247 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

That’s the Daily Mail Fail.

FTFY!

250 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:37:19pm

re: #236 Interesting Times

Bwahaha (you might have to think about it for a moment):

Well, his musical career died long ago, so there’s that.

251 Kaessa  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:37:58pm

re: #175 Skeetghazi

Kale recipes?

I know I’m a little late, but I LOVE these parmesan kale chips.

252 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:38:06pm

re: #247 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

That’s the Daily Mail.

I think about 80% of his links are.

Why one chooses to willingly read the Fail, I do not know.

253 klys  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:39:06pm

re: #248 Decatur Deb

Unless, like much of the world, it is given the telecoms business.

The telecoms are going to come up onto their own issue soon enough, where the infrastructure capacity isn’t supporting the huge growth that’s happened.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens at that point.

254 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:39:21pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

Killgore, you’re beclowning yourself again.

255 jaunte  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:40:07pm

If the postal service goes away, the rural (red) congressional districts will wake up and complain mightily.

256 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:40:19pm

re: #243 Killgore Trout

more…

(Deputy National Security Advisor) John Brennan also ran a highly compartmentalized program out of the White House in regard to weapons transfers, and Stevens would not have been trusted with that type of information. Stevens likely helped consolidate as many weapons as possible after the war to safeguard them, at which point Brennan exported them overseas to start another conflict.

Which sounds kind of like the Fox News/Rand Paul thing about sending weapons through Turkey to fuel the conflict in Syria.

257 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:40:21pm

re: #253 klys

It’ll be interesting to see what happens at that point.

Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria.

258 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:41:01pm

re: #245 erik_t

Let’s see anyone pillage with a postal service. Army stays, damnit!

“Dinnerjacket, we’re about to go postal on your ass.”

259 erik_t  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:41:27pm

re: #256 Killgore Trout

more…

Which sounds kind of like the Fox News/Rand Paul thing about sending weapons through Turkey to fuel the conflict in Syria.

Well maybe Rand is a moderate Republican showing leadership!

/broke the / key hitting it so hard

260 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:41:35pm

re: #239 FemNaziBitch

The market has shrunk. No amount of re-orging or magic fairy dust is going to change that the USPS doesn’t have the market it used to have and never will.

However, people are still going to send dead tree stuff (and a lot of it) for the foreseeable future and the USPS, even with recent price hikes and service cuts, is still the most economical way to send much of that dead tree stuff.

Even when sending a simple letter, First Class postage is still a bargain compared to UPS and FedEx’s cheapest options.

261 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:41:40pm

Uh, I’m pointing out that the story isn’t very credible.

262 efuseakay  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:41:44pm

Any updates re: the tornado in MS? I think the area hit is part of No-federal-aid-for-Sandy-victims Congressman Steven Palazzo’s area. From what I’ve heard, no deaths as of yet, thank goodness. But if they are hit really bad, Mr. Palazzo could be put in quite an awkward position as he asks for Federal aid.

263 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:42:45pm

re: #235 Lidane

Well, duh. They have jobs and don’t take welfare, don’tcha know. That automatically makes them the “Makers”.

/////////// x infinity

Food stamp recipients: U.S. Military families

264 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:44:18pm

So, I just figured out that Huckabee is on in the next room because no one is in the room!!! Thankfully, I turned off the TV just as Justin Beiber’s mom was going to tell us why she Chose Life.

265 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:44:31pm

re: #252 erik_t

I think about 80% of his links are.

Why one chooses to willingly read the Fail, I do not know.

I saw it earlier and ignored it as BS. It’s on the rec list at Dkos which is the only reason I’m mentioning it.
.Bombshell article about Petraeus and Benghazi, based on e-book to be released Monday (Updated)

266 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:45:15pm

re: #264 FemNaziBitch

So, I just figured out that Huckabee is on in the next room because no one is in the room!!! Thankfully, I turned off the TV just as Justin Beiber’s mom was going to tell us why she Chose Life.

Did she really have to?

///extreme

267 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:45:26pm

Outrage and drama!

268 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:46:06pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

Uh, I’m pointing out that the story isn’t very credible.

I think the main weirdness was you were saying the Kos kids were excited about it while linking to the Daily Mail, so from our perspective the only person currently excited about it looks like you, even if you’re just excitedly letting us know that the tell-all book being hyped in the Daily Mail doesn’t actually appear to be the apogee of journalism— which, by the way, thanks, I generally assume books rushed out in the aftermath of a scandal are the best available sources of information.

269 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:46:07pm

re: #260 TedStriker

However, people are still going to send dead tree stuff (and a lot of it) for the foreseeable future and the USPS, even with recent price hikes and service cuts, is still the most economical way to send much of that dead tree stuff.

Even when sending a simple letter, First Class postage is still a bargain compared to UPS and FedEx’s cheapest options.

Yes, I’m just tired of hearing about the only problem is Congress and their directive about the pension payments. There are other factors, the biggest being the withered market for it’s services.

270 Mich-again  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:47:15pm

re: #239 FemNaziBitch

The market has shrunk. No amount of re-orging or magic fairy dust is going to change that the USPS doesn’t have the market it used to have and never will.

True. I think it makes sense to deliver fewer days per week to save costs. And another thing is that just cutting from 6 days to 5 days delivery will cut fuel consumption by about 10 million gallons per year, which is a good thing for everyone, except Exxon.

271 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:49:00pm

re: #262 efuseakay

Any updates re: the tornado in MS? I think the area hit is part of No-federal-aid-for-Sandy-victims Congressman Steven Palazzo’s area. From what I’ve heard, no deaths as of yet, thank goodness. But if they are hit really bad, Mr. Palazzo could be put in quite an awkward position as he asks for Federal aid.

Good heads-up. That storm front is only a couple counties away. No warnings up yet.

272 efuseakay  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:50:11pm

re: #271 Decatur Deb

Good heads-up. That storm front is only a couple counties away. No warnings up yet.

Eek. Keep your ears listening and stay safe!

273 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:51:30pm

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Sure looks like the Koskids are lapping it up!

Yeah, I would need to see more than an article from the Daily Mail and a few anonymous sources before I give the e-book or what it claims to be saying any validity. Just way too shaky on their sourcing.

…

Doesn’t it say something about the author’s motivations that they’d choose the Daily Mail for an exclusive preview?

…

All they have for the book are anonymous sources and the news site reporting this is the Daily Mail? A notorious tabloid from the UK?

This all sounds very reaching, and conspiracy-ish. I think we would need to see some real, legitimate news sites and at least get a better idea of what some of these sources are, before we give this any credence whatsoever.

I don’t really have a horse in this race, the whole thing just sounds unbelievable and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Can you smell the excitement?

274 darthstar  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:51:33pm

FEATURE REQUEST: Stickier sticky sessions. Every time I switch computers, which is more often than I like, I have to log in again(not that it’s difficult, login/pwd are filled in and I just need to click a button). Can’t I have a sticky session on two machines and my phone?

275 Gus  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:52:46pm

Testing.

276 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:54:52pm

re: #272 efuseakay

Eek. Keep your ears listening and stay safe!

Animated radar has it grazing us in about an hour—no text or NOAA radio warnings. Going to check the radio.

277 efuseakay  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:56:39pm

re: #276 Decatur Deb

Animated radar has it grazing us in about an hour—no text or NOAA radio warnings. Going to check the radio.

Keep checking in with us.

278 TedStriker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:57:02pm

re: #269 FemNaziBitch

Yes, I’m just tired of hearing about the only problem is Congress and their directive about the pension payments. There are other factors, the biggest being the withered market for it’s services.

While it may be true that the USPS was facing declining market share from competition by its traditional package service competitors (UPS, FedEx, etc.) and from electronic options, the Congressional mandate to fully fund worker pensions 75 years in advance (at about $5 billion/year) has financially undercut the USPS to the point where it’s basically cannibalizing itself to meet that mandate, taking away money that could be used to hire/retain employees and upgrade equipment and technology.

Which I have no doubts that was part of the intent by some in Congress when the mandate was made: starve the beast, because IIRC, the USPS has one of the highest (if not the highest) concentrations of unionized workers in the federal government.

279 CuriousLurker  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:57:14pm

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Outrage and drama!

LOL, you’re starting to remind me of this.

280 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 6:03:05pm

re: #277 efuseakay

Keep checking in with us.

Your first question—3 injured and significant damage to a MS state university:

[Link: www.reuters.com…]

281 Mentis Fugit  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 6:03:16pm

re: #274 darthstar

FEATURE REQUEST: Stickier sticky sessions. Every time I switch computers, which is more often than I like, I have to log in again(not that it’s difficult, login/pwd are filled in and I just need to click a button). Can’t I have a sticky session on two machines and my phone?

Seconded. I’ve logged in from a work machine, two home machines, and my phone at various times. It would be nice to be remembered in more than one location, though there are obvious security implications. (At the very least, a “Forget everywhere” button would be indicated.)

282 b_sharp  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 6:16:00pm

re: #274 darthstar

FEATURE REQUEST: Stickier sticky sessions. Every time I switch computers, which is more often than I like, I have to log in again(not that it’s difficult, login/pwd are filled in and I just need to click a button). Can’t I have a sticky session on two machines and my phone?

I axed for that a coupla years ago.

283 Origuy  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 8:22:03pm

The message board along I-280 in San Jose, 400 miles away, said Nissan pickup with the license plate on Friday morning. They had the description then.

284 Pip's Squeak  Sun, Feb 10, 2013 11:50:01pm

re: #175 Skeetghazi

Saute over low heat with chopped black olives in butter, with coriander powder, mango powder and salt and chili to taste. When done, sprinkle with lemon juice. Serve with steamed fish.

285 Flavia  Mon, Feb 11, 2013 10:29:13pm

re: #186 funky chicken

It makes me think open carry laws like the one just passed here in OK are stupid. The last thing I want is to be in a mall or movie theater and have a bunch of “heroes” shooting up the place in response to a perceived threat.

MOAR GUNZ!! WE NEEDS MOAR GUNZ!!!!1!!!

smh…


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