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413 comments
1 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:29:51pm

WATERBOY!

2 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:30:01pm

Is… is that real?

3 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:30:32pm

“Nha shor time I’ve been here in Washton…”

4 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:30:41pm

“I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.”

5 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:31:39pm

That horrible wet gulping sound will be in my dreams!

6 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:31:59pm

People take a drink in the middle of a speech all the time.

But not like that.

7 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:32:40pm
8 blueraven  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:33:13pm

It was stealth-like slurp. OK not really.

9 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:33:13pm

That’s some high quality H2O!

10 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:34:06pm
11 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:34:15pm

re: #7 Kragar (Antichrist )

Who are these “Leftists” he speaks of?

12 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:34:21pm

Rubio/Jindal 2016

13 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:34:33pm

[Link: twitter.com…]

14 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:34:36pm

valarie jarret says she thinks americans should be committed

i agree but you have to catch them first

15 bubba zanetti  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:34:47pm

It’s what plants crave.

16 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:35:08pm

re: #10 Lidane

Youtube Video
17 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:35:19pm

Those canned Romney talking points are pretty dry by now.

18 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:35:20pm
19 klys  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:35:33pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

That horrible wet gulping sound will be in my dreams!

Wait, there’s sound to go with it? Dude, I thought it was crazy just from the visuals!

20 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:35:43pm

That’s one small sip for man, one big gulp for mankind.

21 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:35:55pm
22 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:35:59pm
23 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:36:04pm

re: #11 Targetpractice

Who are these “Leftists” he speaks of?

those are the cheetos still left in the bag after the trolls wingnuts have dinner

24 bubba zanetti  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:36:40pm

Slurp slurp

Youtube Video
25 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:37:04pm
26 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:37:44pm

LEAVE MARCO ALOOONNNEEE!!!!

27 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:38:11pm

re: #7 Kragar (Antichrist )

Asshole Derper acts like an asshole = Dog bites man.

28 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:38:56pm

To quote Ted Nugent…

I got the droolin’, droolin’,
get all wet, salivate, salivate
I got salivate late, salivate late, salivate late
Got salivate, salivate, salivate, salivate

29 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:39:06pm

Right about here is where Rubio looks like Billy Bob Thornton from Sling Blade.

30 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:39:29pm
31 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:40:18pm
32 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:41:12pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

Right about here is where Rubio looks like Billy Bob Thornton from Sling Blade.

Shows off the combover nicely.

33 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:42:36pm
34 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:43:48pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

Right about here is where Rubio looks like Billy Bob Thornton from Sling Blade.

So. Much. Space. for a caption in the window.

35 klys  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:44:05pm

re: #31 jaunte

I would sigh, but…

36 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:44:41pm

Jennifer Rubin, hackiest hack of them all: Rubio Responds and Shines.

Fresher! More dynamic! Whitens while it brightens!

37 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:44:56pm

The night John Boehner just sat there

“Obama backed preschool, jobs, keeping kids alive and helping a 102-year-old vote; GOP not impressed.”

38 klys  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:45:01pm

In the irony category, yesterday’s Daily Show was talking about Pope Rubio.

39 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:45:14pm
40 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:45:58pm

re: #31 jaunte

Praise Jesus.

41 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:46:21pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

“If the GOP can piggy-back on his personality and adopt his tone, it will be on the comeback trail. And he, tonight, no doubt began his 2016 presidential quest.”

Better bring a canteen.

42 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:46:24pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

Jennifer Rubin, hackiest hack of them all: Rubio Responds and Shines.

Fresher! More dynamic! Whitens while it brightens!

…

presented by a fresher and more dynamic face

Anybody have a shot of that smile at the end?

43 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:47:35pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

Jennifer Rubin, hackiest hack of them all: Rubio Responds and Shines.

Fresher! More dynamic! Whitens while it brightens!

Whatever the Washington Post pays her is wasted money. She’s hopeless.

44 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:47:55pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

Jennifer Rubin, hackiest hack of them all: Rubio Responds and Shines.

Fresher! More dynamic! Whitens while it brightens!

Wasn’t so much shine as much as a wet look

45 Single-handed sailor  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:48:00pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

Jennifer Rubin, hackiest hack of them all: Rubio Responds and Shines.

Fresher! More dynamic! Whitens while it brightens!

Wow, did she previously work as a fluffer on a porn set?

46 Joanne  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:49:11pm

re: #11 Targetpractice

Who are these “Leftists” he speaks of?

That was my question.

47 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:49:23pm

re: #45 Single-handed sailor

Wow, did she previously work as a fluffer on a porn set?

You’re implying she is useful?

48 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:49:24pm

re: #39 Interesting Times

I didn’t want to watch, but that was awesome.

49 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:50:07pm

re: #37 jaunte

The night John Boehner just sat there

“Obama backed preschool, jobs, keeping kids alive and helping a 102-year-old vote; GOP not impressed.”

This image says it all.

50 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:50:37pm
51 klys  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:52:23pm

re: #49 Targetpractice

This image says it all.

I keep hitting the + button but nothing happens.

52 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:52:23pm

re: #50 jaunte

Yeah, where was Ted tonight? Did they have him restrained and sedated during the speech?

53 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:53:10pm
54 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:53:27pm

re: #52 Targetpractice

I saw a photo of him talking to some reporters outside, after the SOTU.

55 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:55:00pm
56 Interesting Times  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:55:49pm
57 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:55:49pm
58 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:56:51pm

So tonight, Obama threw down the gauntlet, Boehner looked like was passing a kidney stone, Rubio looked like he needed an acting coach, and Rand Paul lost his mind on TV.

All in all, I call it in Obama’s favor.

59 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:59:00pm

LAPD denies reports that body of fugitive ex-cop Dorner found

In a press conference, LAPD spokesman Andy Smith denied multiple reports claiming that the body of fugitive ex-cop Christopher Dorner was found inside a burned out cabin near California’s Big Bear Mountain. Smith said the smoldering cabin is still “simply too hot” for authorities to investigate the scene and said it could still take several days for authorities to fully investigate the scene and identify Dorner’s body, if it is in fact found on the scene.

“That was a mistake. If someone said it was all-clear two hours ago, that was a mistake,” Smith told reporters, adding that the LAPD planned to hold another press conference Wednesday morning.

60 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 8:59:27pm

We can finally reuse ‘Watergate’.

61 klys  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:00:28pm

re: #60 wrenchwench

We can finally reuse ‘Watergate’.

My + button is getting worn out.

62 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:01:30pm

re: #61 klys

Might need a doctor to look at it then.

63 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:02:03pm

re: #60 wrenchwench

We can finally reuse ‘Watergate’.

WATERGHAZI!

64 klys  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:02:13pm

re: #62 ProBosniaLiberal

Might need a doctor to look at it then.

I’ll see them when I go back for my government-paid birth control renewal before I update my Obamaphone info.

65 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:03:28pm

Freepers can’t decide whether Rubio’s speech best thing since sliced bread or that they hate him. But they do agree that the media is horrible for snickering at his water drinking flub.

66 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:04:54pm

Americans are funny people.

67 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:06:52pm

And predictably, the Breitbartians have their knickers tightly in a wad that Obama didn’t dwell on Benghazi.

68 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:09:39pm

these young republicans of the future like rubio and gilligan jindal take me back to the old days when young republican meant a guy in dorky plastic glasses wearing a tie with a short sleeved shirt

69 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:11:40pm

Watching the SOTU again. Hmm.

70 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:11:55pm

PBO is no JFK.

71 engineer cat  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:13:03pm

re: #70 Gus

PBO is no JFK.

jfk could read a grocery bill and make it sound like the gettysburgh address

72 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:15:17pm

Minimum wage:

Calculated in real 2012 dollars, the 1968 minimum wage was the highest at $10.51. The real dollar minimum wage (red squares) falls during periods Congress does not raise the minimum wage to keep up with inflation. The minimum wage increased in three $0.70 increments—to $5.85 in July, 2007, $6.55 in July, 2008, and to $7.25 in July 2009. The 2012 minimum wage is equal to what was paid in 1960.
[Link: oregonstate.edu…]

73 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:16:56pm

re: #72 jaunte

Minimum wage:

Yep. Gotta raise the price of your goods then.

74 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:19:31pm

What happens is you raise the minimum wage but along with that the price of goods and services and rent goes up along with it. It’s really not that simple. It’s sort of a Catch 22 situation. I realize that liberals want it to seem that simple, but that’s just not the case.

75 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:21:27pm

re: #65 Targetpractice

Freepers can’t decide whether Rubio’s speech best thing since sliced bread or that they hate him. But they do agree that the media is horrible for snickering at his water drinking flub.

It is, kind of, unfair. Except he looks like he’s raiding eggs from an unguarded ostrich nest while glancing around to make sure Mom doesn’t charge in and kick his ass to sleep.

76 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:21:34pm

re: #74 Gus

What happens is you raise the minimum wage but along with that the price of goods and services and rent goes up along with it. It’s really not that simple. It’s sort of a Catch 22 situation. I realize that liberals want it to seem that simple, but that’s just not the case.

All I want is an honest week’s pay for an honest day’s work.

77 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:22:22pm

Everytime you raise the cost of running a business you wind up raising the cost of good. It’s adjusted. Democrats want you to believe that you can raise the minimum wage and it won’t have an affect down the line. That’s simply not the case. Your boss won’t sell his house to pay you more. Your boss will simply raise the cost of his goods and services. Which means the people for whom you’ve raised their wages will have to pay more for those same good and services. Net gain? Zero.

78 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:23:04pm

Minimum Wage in Canada for 2012
[Link: www.wageindicator.org…]

79 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:23:06pm

re: #76 Kragar (Antichrist )

All I want is an honest week’s pay for an honest day’s work.

I want a sound bite.

80 klys  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:23:33pm

re: #74 Gus

What happens is you raise the minimum wage but along with that the price of goods and services and rent goes up along with it. It’s really not that simple. It’s sort of a Catch 22 situation. I realize that liberals want it to seem that simple, but that’s just not the case.

The question I would then ask (because I don’t want to put words in your mouth): do you think it’s possible to have a living wage where, if both parents in the family* are working 40 hours a week, the family could have a lifestyle above the federal poverty line?

* This is leaving aside issues of both single-parent families and states where minimum income requirements exceed the poverty line. Hi CA.

ETA: removed an extraneous space that snuck in there.

81 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:24:02pm

re: #78 jaunte

Minimum Wage in Canada for 2012
[Link: www.wageindicator.org…]

Yes. But that’s Canada. We’re in the USA which is effectively a hillbilly nation.

82 gwangung  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:25:03pm

re: #74 Gus

What happens is you raise the minimum wage but along with that the price of goods and services and rent goes up along with it. It’s really not that simple. It’s sort of a Catch 22 situation. I realize that liberals want it to seem that simple, but that’s just not the case.

I think this is true, but not to as great as an extent as conventional wisdom has it. There’s been more than one economic study that I recall that shows that the rise in prices is not as fast/high as the rise in wages.

83 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:25:29pm

re: #81 Gus

Yes. But that’s Canada. We’re in the USA which is effectively a hillbilly nation.

I’m not sure if that’s a technical economic category.

84 mr.fusion  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:26:02pm

re: #77 Gus

Everytime you raise the cost of running a business you wind up raising the cost of good. It’s adjusted. Democrats want you to believe that you can raise the minimum wage and it won’t have an affect down the line. That’s simply not the case. Your boss won’t sell his house to pay you more. Your boss will simply raise the cost of his goods and services. Which means the people for whom you’ve raised their wages will have to pay more for those same good and services. Net gain? Zero.

Sorry but you clearly know very little about this.

Something is worth what someone will pay for it - no more, no less. Do you think that I have chosen the price of my goods willy nilly? Of course not, I set prices based on what people are willing to pay for my goods and services. If I think people would pay more for it then I would charge more for it regardless of what I pay my employees

85 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:26:09pm

re: #80 klys

The question I would then ask (because I don’t want to put words in your mouth): do you think it’s possible to have a living wage where, if both parents in the family* are working 40 hours a week, the family could have a lifestyle above the federal poverty line?

* This is leaving aside issues of both single-parent families and states where minimum income requirements exceed the poverty line. Hi CA.

ETA: removed an extraneous space that snuck in there.

I think it’s difficult because Americans are very competitive. We worship murderers like Ray Lewis.

86 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:26:25pm

And God.

87 Gus  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:27:49pm

Anywho. Yeah. They can raise your minimum wage but your life will still suck. They adjust to keep themselves rich. Might as well raise it I suppose.

88 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:29:31pm

re: #77 Gus

Everytime you raise the cost of running a business you wind up raising the cost of good. It’s adjusted. Democrats want you to believe that you can raise the minimum wage and it won’t have an affect down the line. That’s simply not the case. Your boss won’t sell his house to pay you more. Your boss will simply raise the cost of his goods and services. Which means the people for whom you’ve raised their wages will have to pay more for those same good and services. Net gain? Zero.

The cost of goods is determined by what the market will bear, your analysis like all supply side analysis of the minimum wage, ignores demand and competition. Just because people want to maximize profits doesn’t mean they always can by increasing prices. We’ve gotten so used to the growing disparity between the top and bottom that we construct false narratives about owners having to sell houses, as if they might actually go homeless rather than live on what was historically more than enough.

89 klys  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:30:18pm

re: #85 Gus

I think it’s difficult because Americans are very competitive. We worship murderers like Ray Lewis.

With all due respect, I’m not sure what Ray Lewis has to do with anything about economics, and I’m kind of confused.

I’ll agree, Americans are competitive and it would result in an increase drive towards foreign goods unless action is taken in that direction, although the form and consequence of that action hasn’t really been discussed much, I agree. Although the argument of increased buying power also factors into this.

90 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:35:40pm
91 darthstar  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:37:51pm

That was beautiful! Oh, shit…the water…it’s way the fuck over there…I’ll bet if I’m fast nobody will notice.

92 jaunte  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:38:53pm

August 9, 2012

Yesterday, Houston’s striking janitors reached a tentative agreement with six of the seven companies who employ them to clean some of the city’s swankiest offices. The agreement, to be ratified on Saturday, ensures them a 12% raise. It ends more than two months of public demonstrations, strikes, and sometimes-risky civil disobedience.

The janitors’ previous contract, which expired at the end of May, gave them $8.35 an hour. The union, Service Employees International Union Local 1, pointed out that Chicago janitors, some employed by the same contractors, made $15.45 an hour, and sought a raise of $1.65 per hour over three years. The contractors called this unreasonable and countered with an offer of $.50 over five years.

Under the new contract, janitors will receive a raise of one dollar per hour installed over the next four years.
[Link: www.texasobserver.org…]

I think the law firms, banks and oil companies that pay for their services are not going to feel the increase too badly.

…Texas’ anti-union sentiment also has its roots in the very concrete strategy of attracting outside industries to take advantage of cheap labor—a tactic that has worked well in this border state, with Mexico providing us a steady stream of exploitable employees. New York-based companies like ABM, Pritchard and JP Morgan Chase are all contractors of the Houston janitors that, until yesterday, refused to increase the paltry $9,000 a year average wage for janitors.[Link: www.texasobserver.org…]

93 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:44:18pm

Huckleberry Closetcase decided to vent to the press about his anger over Reid saying he won’t honor any holds put on Hagel’s nomination. He’s now calling on all Senate Republicans to fall on their swords by joining him in filibustering the vote until he’s “satisfied” about Benghazi.

94 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:45:39pm

re: #93 Targetpractice

Huckleberry Closetcase decided to vent to the press about his anger over Reid saying he won’t honor any holds put on Hagel’s nomination. He’s now calling on all Senate Republicans to fall on their swords by joining him in filibustering the vote until he’s “satisfied” about Benghazi.

Next up, the GOP swears to hold their breath until Obama self-impeachs

95 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:47:01pm

Speaking from experience, wages are not the be-all end-all in regards to business profitability. There are a million ways to reduce waste in operations before getting to the point of reducing wages to stay in business. It is a better approach to have fewer people who are kept productive and are well paid than it is to just slash wages and keep too many people on board.

In my business an American factory will have 6 employees on a particular operation making $25 an hour. Same operation in Thailand, 40 employees making $2 an hour. So the wages are less in the low scale country true, but each of those employees needs a uniform, materials, ventilation, line space, etc. and big surprise but too many people generally produce worse quality and now you get into big money repairing goods once they are manufactured.

Also, in the low wage countries, the transportation and energy infrastructures are lacking, energy costs are sky high, regulations are not consistent, the legal systems can be corrupt, and those factors increase overall costs as well.

Wages aren’t everything and the less people know about business the more importance they place on them.

96 klys  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:48:09pm

re: #85 Gus

For the record, I’m not disagreeing with you that he is a scumbag or a disgrace to humanity. But since you replied without actually addressing my question, I think it’s fair to ask again:

The question I would then ask (because I don’t want to put words in your mouth): do you think it’s possible to have a living wage where, if both parents in the family* are working 40 hours a week, the family could have a lifestyle above the federal poverty line?

* This is leaving aside issues of both single-parent families and states where minimum income requirements exceed the poverty line. Hi CA.

Also, if I said or did something to offend you, I’m sorry. It genuinely wasn’t my intent. I’m new, I lurked awhile before posting, but I probably didn’t have the full lay of the land before I said hi and I have tried to avoid stepping on toes. Well, stabby excluded, but I think that’s fair after some of the responses.

97 darthstar  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:48:14pm
98 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:51:20pm

Boehner’s face tonight had all the appearance of that guy in the office who gets a stack of work dropped on his desk and told that he has a strict deadline to abide by, with failure to do all the work reflecting on him and him alone.

99 darthstar  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:53:27pm
100 darthstar  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:54:48pm

And Biden’s wife gets in on the fun

101 makeitstop  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:00:14pm

I just got home. Did Nuge do anything dumb?

102 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:01:17pm

re: #101 makeitstop

I just got home. Did Nuge do anything dumb?

Yeah, he showed up. Other than that, no, he failed to impress.

103 Amory Blaine  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:06:24pm
DerpmichaelFinley 46 minutes ago
People on MDMA thought Marco Rubio was licking his lips too much.
104 darthstar  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:06:28pm

So…last I heard there was no body in the cabin…WTF is up with Dorner now? And no, I don’t actually give a shit.

105 stabby  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:08:25pm

The Republican response was bad, I was saying:
“liar”
“liar”
“fucking liar”
“bullshit”
“fuck you”
“liar”
and so on over and over while I listened, but that was NOTHING compared with the Tea Party response.

I got a few minutes past the “a one cent cut on every dollar spent would balance the budget” lie and gave up.

Every damn word out of their mouths is a BIG fucking lie. How do these people sleep at night?

Anyway I’ve got an hour ride home now.

Ttyl

106 stabby  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:10:08pm

re: #4 Targetpractice

“I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.”

It’s the only prayer he answers every time.

107 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:11:51pm

re: #104 darthstar

So…last I heard there was no body in the cabin…WTF is up with Dorner now? And no, I don’t actually give a shit.

This is the part in the action film where they search the cabin and find out that there’s no body, that he made a break for it under cover of smoke.

108 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:15:55pm

re: #104 darthstar

So…last I heard there was no body in the cabin…WTF is up with Dorner now? And no, I don’t actually give a shit.

The cabin just went up in flames today. They’ve got to let it cool down first and make sure it’s safe before they explore the scene to see if there’s a body.

109 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:21:02pm
110 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:25:21pm

Marco Rubio’s long drink of water dominates rebuttal speech coverage

Rising GOP start Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) fell victim to the long-standing Obama rebuttal curse tonight, as he awkwardly reached for a drink of water from an off-camera bottle mid-speech.

“In the short time I’ve been here in Washington, nothing has frustrated me more than false choices like the ones the President laid out tonight,” Rubio said. He then reached for a water bottle and drank while staring at the camera, then continued. “The choice isn’t just between big government or big business.”

It led to a moment of levity for many in an otherwise uninspiring speech that focused on the importance of small government and the President’s supposed plan to increase the size of government (with no acknowledgment that President George W. Bush led the largest expansion of the federal government since World War II).

111 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:31:06pm

re: #110 Kragar (Antichrist )

Marco Rubio’s long drink of water dominates rebuttal speech coverage

I have to agree with them, if it hadn’t been for the constant face-touching and the drink of water, Rubio’s speech would have been utterly forgettable. Like I said downstairs, he did well if you think that getting through the speech without falling over is an accomplishment. Otherwise, it was utter disaster of a cookie-cutter speech that anybody could have given. If this was supposed to be the beginning of his rise to the ‘16 nomination, then he’s got a long way to go.

112 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:34:32pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

I have to agree with them, if it hadn’t been for the constant face-touching and the drink of water, Rubio’s speech would have been utterly forgettable. Like I said downstairs, he did well if you think that getting through the speech without falling over is an accomplishment. Otherwise, it was utter disaster of a cookie-cutter speech that anybody could have given. If this was supposed to be the beginning of his rise to the ‘16 nomination, then he’s got a long way to go.

The point of a rebuttal speech is to get people to question the President and offer an alternative for people to talk about.

They failed in that utterly.

113 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:36:14pm

re: #112 Kragar (Antichrist )

The point of a rebuttal speech is to get people to question the President and offer an alternative for people to talk about.

They failed in that utterly.

OTOH, sales of Poland Spring water just went up among the wingnuts. Heh.

114 Targetpractice  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:37:43pm

re: #112 Kragar (Antichrist )

The point of a rebuttal speech is to get people to question the President and offer an alternative for people to talk about.

They failed in that utterly.

Ayep. Tonight might as well have been a stump speech, and a yawner of one at that.

115 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:47:24pm

Jon Stewart: ‘Every time Dick Cheney laughs, an angel gets stabbed in the dick’

Just before President Obama’s 2013 State of the Union address, Jon Stewart found himself enraged by former Vice President Dick Cheney’s criticisms of the President aired on CBS. Among other things, Cheney called Obama’s policies flawed and said he was trying to hurt America’s reputation in the world and take the country “down a peg.”

“You know,” said Stewart, “Cheney’s really confident in his opinions and analysis, probably forgetting that he sucked at this.”

116 gwangung  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 10:47:33pm

re: #88 goddamnedfrank

The cost of goods is determined by what the market will bear, your analysis like all supply side analysis of the minimum wage, ignores demand and competition. Just because people want to maximize profits doesn’t mean they always can by increasing prices. We’ve gotten so used to the growing disparity between the top and bottom that we construct false narratives about owners having to sell houses, as if they might actually go homeless rather than live on what was historically more than enough.

Hm, yes. It’s not like the price charged the customer is actually staying the same in all case—they have to be going up because there’s steady price inflation over the years (while wages remain the same). A raise in minimum wage could just as easily restore lost buying power and increase the amount of goods bought elsewhere.

117 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 11:09:05pm

Graham Vows To ‘Fight Back’ Against Reid For Disregarding His Hold On Hagel

Sen. Linsdey Graham (R-SC) said Tuesday night that he was very disappointed by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-NV) threat not to honor his “hold” on the confirmation of Chuck Hagel for secretary of defense.

“I’m very disappointed,” Graham told a small group of reporters after the president’s State of the Union speech. “I’m very upset about it and I’m going to fight back.”

Eat a bag of dicks, Linds.

118 Lidane  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 11:10:23pm

re: #21 wrenchwench

119 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 11:24:42pm
120 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 11:28:21pm

Rand Paul cites Adam Smith, a major proponent of banking regulations

Paul said that Obama should have learned from 18th century philosopher Adam Smith, author of The Wealth Of Nations. Though conservatives like Paul frequently cite Smith to justify their opposition to new regulations, Smith actually said that regulations on banks were as important as fire codes and other safety regulations. As Paul Krugman notes, he even supported banning high-risk, high-interest loans, similar to today’s subprime lending.

121 Single-handed sailor  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 11:45:07pm

Adam Smith - “It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion”

Rand Paul, I wonder if he understands anything in context.

122 simoom  Tue, Feb 12, 2013 11:53:23pm

This was retweeted in Sen. Mark Kirk’s (R-IL) twitter feed:

That’s Kirk with the President in the .gif. Kirk served in the Illinois delegation with then senator Obama and suffered a major stroke in 2012.

123 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:01:58am

Seeing Law Enforcement is now confirming that they have found a body in the cabin but are not saying its Dorner yet.

124 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:08:05am

re: #123 Kragar (Antichrist )

Seeing Law Enforcement is now confirming that they have found a body in the cabin but are not saying its Dorner yet.

if this was an action flick definitely not altho the police captain would think so but our hero would have suspicions and the movie wouldn’t even be half over

125 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:13:25am

unlike movies my life has too many boring scenes where i’m working late again

126 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:29:25am

re: #125 engineer cat

unlike movies my life has too many boring scenes where i’m working late again

Which means that the likelihood of a ninja incursion happening while you’re there goes way up.

YAY YOU!

127 Tigger2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:07:47am

Kind of looks like Rubio is going to be the GOPs next Watergate.

128 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:25:59am

Dorner manhunt: Charred human remains found in burned cabin

Charred human remains have been found in the burned cabin where police believe fugitive ex-cop Christopher Dorner was holed up after trading gunfire with law enforcement, authorities said.

If the body is identified to be Dorner’s, the standoff would end a weeklong manhunt for the ex-LAPD officer and Navy reserve lieutenant, who is accused of going on a revenge-fueled spree following his firing by the Los Angeles Police Department several years ago. Four people have died allegedly at Dorner’s hands.

Got to figure it will be a couple days before they can confirm a preliminary ID based off of dental or maybe a finger print if one is recoverable. A DNA test will probably take a while longer.

129 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:04:34am

re: #74 Gus

What happens is you raise the minimum wage but along with that the price of goods and services and rent goes up along with it. It’s really not that simple. It’s sort of a Catch 22 situation. I realize that liberals want it to seem that simple, but that’s just not the case.

The price of goods is not directly related to the minimum wage; this is amply demonstrated by any look at prices of goods and wages over the past twenty years.

130 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:17:52am

Fuck your phone.

Youtube Video
131 dragonath  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:23:39am

Apropos of nothing, here’s one place where Poland Spring water comes from:

In June 2003, Poland Spring was sued for false advertising in a class action lawsuit charging that their water that supposedly comes from springs, is in fact heavily treated common ground water.[9] The suit also states, hydro-geologists hired by Nestlé found that another current source for Poland Spring water near the original site stands over a former trash and refuse dump, and below an illegal disposal site where human sewage was sprayed as fertilizer for many years.[9]

In fact, Nestle derives a lot of their water from (gasp) public
 water sources. One of their large “manufacturing” plants has been in the news for drawing public water during a heavy drought.

132 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:26:10am

re: #130 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Fuck your phone.

[Embedded content]

There’s an app for THAT!?!

eewww!!!!

133 Bulworth  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:34:12am

re: #120 Kragar (Antichrist )

Adam Smith was 4 Free Markets and Capitalism and not Soshulism, arrrrgggghghhghg

/

134 Bulworth  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:40:52am

re: #58 Targetpractice

To be fair, only the Tea Party Express got a SOTU rebuttal. Where was the Tea Party Nation rebuttal? And the Tea Party Patriot rebuttal? Gdamn librul media bias.
/

135 dragonath  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:58:17am

ProTip for Republicans: when your rebuttals become so boilerplate and mechanical that someone taking a swig of water is considered a highlight, ur doing it wrong.

136 dragonath  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:01:47am

Even More Exclusive ProTips: Surrounding yourselves with indiscrete loudmouths In a vain attempt to fight this perception only makes you look stupid and desperate.

137 dragonath  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:04:19am

Super Secret Cheat Code: It’s rumored that John Boehner gets oranger every time he polishes off a bottle of Grand Marnier.

138 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:34:16am

Who didn’t see this coming?

Christopher Dorner Fan Site Already Alleging Conspiracy

Even as the flames begin to die down at the Big Bear Lake, California cabin where suspected quadruple murderer and former Los Angeles Police Department officer Christopher Dorner is believed to have been cornered by authorities, supporters of his rage-and-revenge-fueled quest against the LAPD have already set up a site dedicated to airing what they believe is the truth about the week-long manhunt in putsuit of Dorner.

Christopher-Dorner.com has an online poll asking viewers whether police or Dorner set the fire which is believed to have taken his life. As of 9:16 p.m. on Tuesday, 568 people or 78% of all poll respondents said they believed authorities had set the fire. 56% of respondents to a previous poll indicated that they believed Dorner would survive his encounter with the authorities.

139 iossarian  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:35:20am

re: #138 NJDhockeyfan

I imagine they’re all leftists.

/

140 Areopagitica  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:39:45am

Despite Rubio’s amateurish flubs in his speech, two things I found really frightening were:

1. His opening remarks about how the Federal Government is bad included a horrid misstatement that it was the Federal Government’s fault that the economy crashed. Um, I was fairly sure that the whole credit default swap thing was the cause of this mess, and last I checked, the feds didn’t run to AIG asking it to ensure toxic subprime mortgages; Bear, Chase, Merrill Lynch and Goldman were.

2. The GOP still thinks that because Solyndra was a joke, any R&D into alternative energy should not be pursued but we should drill the shit out of the planet for oil and if we kill some sea turtles along the way, oh well, its good for shareholders.

141 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:44:54am

re: #139 iossarian

I imagine they’re all leftists wearing tinfoil hats.

/

Stupidity has no sides

142 A Mom Anon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:45:58am

re: #140 Areopagitica

It never ceases to amaze me that people will vote for people to run the government who hate the government,while drawing a paycheck from the hated government (not to mention the other benefits and perks they have no problem taking). That’s like hiring a babysitter that hates kids. A chef who hates cooking, a dog trainer who prefers cats. It’s stupid.

If Rubio is the best they’ve got for 2016….well, good luck with that.

143 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:47:07am

TGDN waking up this morning with a very bad hangover.

144 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:55:42am

Ladies and gentlemen, start your conspiracies!

145 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:59:39am

re: #144 Vicious Babushka

Ladies and gentlemen, start your conspiracies!

From what I hear, he was whisked away to Area 51 where he shares a condo with Elvis and Osama Bin Laden!!

146 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:06:47am

Watching a replay of The Westminster Dog Show (don’t ask!!)

I like how the dogs have trained their handlers how to trot beside them!!!

147 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:11:27am
148 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:12:45am

re: #147 NJDhockeyfan

Will they be adding flames???
((bad satt,, bad bad bad !!!))

149 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:18:02am

I Googled this meme “11,629 go on food stamps every day” where does it come from? STORMFRONT.

150 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:22:06am

TGDN seething about minimum wage.


THOZ POORS SHUD BE HAPPY 2 WURK 4 BOWL OF RICE & GRUEL A DAY!1!

151 steve_davis  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:24:49am

re: #71 engineer cat

jfk could read a grocery bill and make it sound like the gettysburgh address

I wonder if Youtube has that classic video of John Houseman (or a John Houseman imitator, I can’t remember now) reading the phonebook to a rapt, appreciative audience.

152 iossarian  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:24:55am

re: #150 Vicious Babushka

TGDN seething about minimum wage.

Exploitation of the working class by the holders of capital, how does it work?

153 steve_davis  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:34:33am

re: #101 makeitstop

I just got home. Did Nuge do anything dumb?

Yes, he spent the last week urinating and defacating in his pants, because he was afraid the GOP might draft him for office at the SOTU.

154 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:35:29am

Meanwhile, on board the Carnival ship, now we know why it’s called the Poop Deck.

155 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:36:04am

They asked Ted Nugent what he wants to do now and he said “I’m taking a Carnival cruise!”

156 Flounder  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:40:23am

Some pics from our dream Carnival Cruise
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]
So romantic, yellow waterfalls in the Gulf.

157 iossarian  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:48:39am

re: #156 Flounder

Some pics from our dream Carnival Cruise
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]
So romantic, yellow waterfalls in the Gulf.

I’m always astounded by the sheer volume of fluff on the Mail’s right sidebar. It’s ho-hum to have “celeb outfit cleavage” links, but when you put a bazillion of them together like that it’s almost like a new, spontaneous artform.

158 Flounder  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:52:03am

Re: 157 Iossarian

Yeah, unfortunately work blocks all that juicy gossip :(

159 Flounder  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:58:07am

I guess they are gonna stuff Knut
[Link: www.thelocal.de…]

160 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:05:44am

OT: Interesting read if you fancy the Whitey Bulger stories.

Page: Whitey Bulger: A Reagan Democrat

161 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:11:34am

TGDN nutbars continue to confuse the TV show Homeland with real life:

Link goes to a poorly designed birther/wingnut site.

162 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:14:39am

re: #161 Lidane

TGDN nutbars continue to confuse the TV show Homeland with real life:

Link goes to a poorly designed birther/wingnut site.

The rumor started at WhirledNuts.

163 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:15:09am

re: #160 geoffm33

OT: Interesting read if you fancy the Whitey Bulger stories.

Page: Whitey Bulger: A Reagan Democrat

Cool. I actually “met’ him back in the mid 80’s.

I place “met” in quotes because at the time I didn’t realize who it was.

At that time I owned a small business that sold/ installed. maintained satellite dish systems (pre- Direct TV) for bars, restaurants/ hotels/ homes. Whitey was the silent owner of South Boston’s Triple O’s bar (amongst others). I went there one day to sell them a dish and the guy I was pitching it to walked me over to a booth and intor’d me to his ‘partner” Without getting up from the table, he shook my hand, asked how much the system would be ($2500 installed) , reaching into his pocket and said “10% discount for cash, right?” and handed me the money on the spot

Only after did I realize who it was

164 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:15:32am
165 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:16:58am

re: #162 Vicious Babushka

The rumor started at WhirledNuts.

My surprise, let me show you it.

WTF. Even if Brennan did convert to Islam, that doesn’t automatically make him a terrorist. These people are deranged.

166 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:17:30am

re: #163 sattv4u2

Wow! Do you still live around the area? If not, you wouldn’t recognize the Broadway station area anymore. If you do, you know what I mean!

167 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:18:56am

re: #160 geoffm33

OT: Interesting read if you fancy the Whitey Bulger stories.

Page: Whitey Bulger: A Reagan Democrat

As JeffFX pointed out to me, the article is behind a paywall so apologies for that. If you have access to BostonGlobe.com or have never visited, you’ll likely be able to access, good read for those interested.

168 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:19:19am

re: #160 geoffm33

re: #163 sattv4u2

Only after did I realize who it was

I was pitching a system to another Southie bar the same day, and when I said “yeah ,, triple O’s is getting one” the owner of the 2nd place said “Oh, thats Whiteys place. he’s always there”

169 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:19:54am

*FACE PALM*

170 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:20:01am

re: #167 geoffm33

As JeffFX pointed out to me, the article is behind a paywall so apologies for that. If you have access to BostonGlobe.com or have never visited, you’ll likely be able to access, good read for those interested.

Still a subscriber even though i moved from Boston 14 years ago

171 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:20:20am

re: #169 Vicious Babushka

ZOMG OBUMMER IZ SELLIN OUT ISRAEL.

Again— totally deranged.

172 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:20:24am

BBL

173 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:20:56am

In TGDNspeak, all facts are lies and lies are facts.

174 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:21:29am

re: #171 Lidane

Link in first tweet goes to Weird Nut Drooly.

OK, I will be happy to turn over the monitoring of TGDN to you.

175 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:21:56am

re: #169 Vicious Babushka

Insure? Premiums must be pretty damn high!

176 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:22:07am

re: #169 Vicious Babushka

*FACE PALM*

Does the GOP have a iPhone app yet so they know where the Koch Bros are so that they can kowtow in the correct direction?
////

177 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:23:49am

re: #174 Vicious Babushka

OK, I will be happy to turn over the monitoring of TGDN to you.

Can’t. Have to finish breakfast, shower and head to work.

You know, since I’m an unemployed librul moocher in the 47%. =P

178 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:24:54am
“Mr. President, I don’t oppose your plans because I want to protect the rich, I oppose your plans because I want to protect my neighbors.”

Except that Rubio’s neighbors are the same rich folks. Spinning doesn’t ignore the core existential questions facing the GOP. The GOP has alienated entire segments of the population with its mesage of misogyny and exclusion.

Putting a shiny new face on the stage wont fix that.

Economic growth and taxes can go hand in hand. Higher taxes were the norm under President Clinton, and yet tax cuts didn’t bring in higher revenues under President Bush. Taxes were higher during the 1950s and 1960s, even as there was an economic boon. Taxes don’t completely correlate with economic growth and economic vitality.

And yet, the GOP recognizes that the sequester (which they voted for) is a bad thing for the economy and something that they’re trying to pin on Obama, because it would result in cuts in government spending across the board and result in job losses and spending cuts that affect private businesses as well. Their solution is to try and shield military spending from the cuts, but it’s a tacit recognition that government spending can be a good thing - it’s just that the GOP differs from Democrats on where and how the spending should be done.

Frankly, the one part of the President’s speech that needs to be hammered home is the infrastructure portion. A completely dedicated infrastructure bill would serve to create jobs, rehabilitate critical infrastructure, and expand transit and utility needs around the nation. It should come with a concurrent effort to reduce the costs for constructing big projects (like narrowing the cost differential between a tunnel project in Europe versus a similar project in the US). For instance, one of the most daring and daunting tunnel projects in Europe, the Gotthard Base Tunnel that will open in 2016, stretches 35 miles and change (and includes about 90 miles of tunnels in total), costs about $10 billion.

Two of the biggest tunnel projects in the US are in NYC. The 2d Avenue subway is about $3.4 billion for the first phase, which stretches for all of 3 miles. That’s more than any comparable expansion of the Paris, Berlin, or London subway systems (which are themselves comparable in size/scope/population density). The East Side Access is another tunnel project that is wildly over budget at $8.4 billion. It will provide the LIRR with access to Grand Central Terminal in a new concourse under the existing station platforms. That project has seen multiple delays, and a cost that ballooned from an initial estimate of $3 billion to $6.4 billion to $8.4 billion. These kinds of costs and overruns mean that the money gets tied up and can’t go to other deserving projects to maintain and upgrade the system.

On a practical level, it means that we just can’t build like we used to because there’s not the money to go around, and critical needs get deferred. All that will come back to bite us in the end with a loss of competitiveness.

Now, some GOPers will bristle at the need to spend more on mass transit or infrastructure in places like NY, MA, CA, NJ, IL, FL, and even TX and AZ but fact is that’s where the people are and it requires a whole lot of money to build out an infrastructure that can move those kinds of crowds. Roads alone can’t do it (see the perpetual traffic jams and congestion in roads around LA or even Atlanta).

Thus, it’s critical to get the construction costs down all while pushing for a major expansion of infrastructure projects. At a time when borrowing costs are at an all time low, there’s no better time to get these projects underway.

179 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:25:15am
180 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:25:18am

re: #177 Lidane

Can’t. Have to finish breakfast, shower and head to work.

You know, since I’m an unemployed librul moocher in the 47%. =P

IF U ARE BEING PAID MORE THAN A BOWL OF RICE & GRUEL A DAY, U R OVERPAID YOONYUN THUG!1!

181 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:25:19am

Mornin’ everyone… I sure could use a…

182 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:25:33am

drink of water.

183 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:27:11am

Another effort at maintaining economic competitiveness? Universal pre-K. That shouldn’t have opposition from the GOP, but we know that it will because you’ve got the socons and wingnuts who are against any kind of schooling that they can’t completely manipulate and spin for their agenda.

184 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:28:38am
185 iossarian  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:29:42am

re: #182 darthstar

drink of water.

I’ve got my Poland Spring on the go right here!

Kind of like Arab Spring, but with a faint whiff of cabbage.

186 Flounder  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:31:14am

Now I want some of my mom’s stuffed cabbage, with extra sour cream
mmmmmmmmmmm

187 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:32:24am

re: #185 iossarian

I’ve got my Poland Spring on the go right here!

Kind of like Arab Spring, but with a faint whiff of cabbage.

Worst. Product placement. Ever. Some marketing genius said, “It’s going to be great, Marco Rubio will take a drink of water in his speech and we’ll be the water!” then he set the table four feet to the left.

188 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:33:10am

Putting the rube in Rubio

By any sensible measure, Rubio’s entire pitch was incoherent gibberish. He thinks President Obama is hostile to free enterprise and wants to increase the deficit, neither of which makes any sense. Rubio thinks the housing crisis was caused by big government, which is simply idiotic. Rubio celebrates his family’s history of dependence on government social programs like student loans and Medicare, while articulating a policy agenda that guts government social programs like student loans and Medicare.

Forget ideology, subjectivity, and areas of opinion — the fact is Marco Rubio’s speech was filled with a series of claims with no meaningful connection to reality. The senator even thinks combating the climate crisis means asking government to “control the weather,” which is just genuinely dumb.

I know many of the folks watching Rubio’s right-wing infomercial kept asking, “What’s wrong with the guy’s mouth?” but I kept wondering, “What planet is this guy living on?”

189 iossarian  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:34:12am

re: #187 darthstar

Worst. Product placement. Ever. Some marketing genius said, “It’s going to be great, Marco Rubio will take a drink of water in his speech and we’ll be the water!” then he set the table four feet to the left.

Brings a whole new meaning to “product placement”, doesn’t it?

To be honest, though, if Rubio isn’t smart enough to make sure his water’s within reach before starting to talk, you’ve got to wonder if he can really handle negotiating with Putin’s rearing head.

190 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:38:03am

re: #189 iossarian

Rubio is the GOP’s lipstick to make them more appealing. Unfortunately, it’s being applied by a three year old.
Image: 7030288499_6306f01d84.jpg

191 iossarian  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:39:27am

re: #189 iossarian

Brings a whole new meaning to “product placement”, doesn’t it?

To be honest, though, if Rubio isn’t smart enough to make sure his water’s within reach before starting to talk, you’ve got to wonder if he can really handle negotiating with Putin’s rearing head.

“Now, listen here, Vladimir. The United States will not tolerate… hold on a second…”

*leans over to side, grabs Poland Spring bottle, takes gulp, resumes upright position*

“…as I was saying, will not tolerate this latest outrage…”

192 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:41:55am

re: #191 iossarian

“Now, listen here, Vladimir. The United States will not tolerate… hold on a second…”

*leans over to side, grabs Poland Spring bottle, takes gulp, resumes upright position*

“…as I was saying, will not tolerate this latest outrage…”

Putin: Why are you drinking my vodka?

193 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:42:37am

re: #188 Lidane

Putting the rube in Rubio

“why not hand Romney’s stump speech to Rubio and hope for the best?” Ouch.

194 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:42:40am

re: #191 iossarian

“Now, listen here, Vladimir. The United States will not tolerate… hold on a second…”

*leans over to side, grabs Poland Spring bottle, takes gulp, resumes upright position*

“…as I was saying, will not tolerate this latest outrage…”

You spelled outrageous outrage wrong.

195 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:43:42am

re: #192 Feline Fearless Leader

Putin: Why are you drinking my vodka?

I knew having this meeting in Boehner’s office was a bad idea.

196 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:45:22am

The Waterboy
Image: BC9SShyCQAA7mhk.jpg

197 iossarian  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:45:43am

Yuk yuk yuks all round.

BBL.

198 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:53:33am

It says an awful lot about the current state of the Republican party that in their past 2 highly publicized events (the convention and SOTU rebuttal), an inanimate object has been the highlight of the show; a chair in one, a water bottle in the other.

re: #196 Our Precious Bodily Fluids

The Waterboy
Image: BC9SShyCQAA7mhk.jpg

“Mama says Bawack Obahma is du DEBIL!”

199 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:54:10am

Ok. Off to get ready for work. Hope your day is going better than this:

Image: badday.jpg

200 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:55:17am

Spending is the problem. Yet, the GOP is pushing opposition to the sequester, which…. cuts spending. Yeah, that’s Obama’s fault too.

201 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:57:36am

Bunch of idiots.

[Link: photoblog.nbcnews.com…]

Sports fan extremism is the lowest of the low when it reaches this sort of level.

202 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:58:37am

re: #199 Lidane

Ok. Off to get ready for work. Hope your day is going better than this:

Image: badday.jpg

Ouch.

(Off to get a piece of carrot cake and another cup of coffee as the day’s conference calls continue.)

203 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:59:24am

Wingnut obviously thinks we should have “dumber” government.

204 Mattand  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:59:28am

Apologies if this was posted already,but IRL LOL’d at this. Found it on Facebook via Rachel Maddow:

Image: 404489_485663718157869_476094424_n.jpeg

205 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:02:36am

re: #204 Mattand

Apologies if this was posted already,but IRL LOL’d at this. Found it on Facebook via Rachel Maddow:

Image: 404489_485663718157869_476094424_n.jpeg

We watched the speech in a bar, and the bartender refused to turn up the volume, so I played the stream over my phone (about 2 minutes off)…but we knew when big moments were coming because John Boehner would sink lower in his chair. I think he lost a couple of inches during the speech due to slouching.

206 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:06:19am

re: #203 Vicious Babushka

Wingnut obviously thinks we should have “dumber” government.

He misheard Jindal and thought he said “We need to be the stupid party.”

207 Mattand  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:10:18am

re: #205 darthstar

We watched the speech in a bar, and the bartender refused to turn up the volume, so I played the stream over my phone (about 2 minutes off)…but we knew when big moments were coming because John Boehner would sink lower in his chair. I think he lost a couple of inches during the speech due to slouching.

I’m actually sorry I didn’t watch the SOTU and the Waterboy sequel live. It really sounds like Boehner would have embarrased a 4 year-old with his behavior.

208 Bulworth  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:10:23am

re: #150 Vicious Babushka

Against people having healthcare/insurance? check
Against unemployed people? check
Against people receiving food stamps? check
Against minimum wage? check

I’m seeing a pattern here…

209 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:10:53am

Rubio. The new face of the republican party. Same as the old face.

210 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:11:03am

LOL, just came across my facebook timeline

Image: 421010_10151168778526610_1829273808_n.jpg

In 1986, Peter Davies was on holiday in Kenya after graduating from Louisiana State University .

On a hike through the bush, he came across a young bull elephant standing with one leg raised in the air. The elephant seemed distressed, so Peter approached it very carefully. He got down on one knee, inspected the elephants foot, and found a large piece of wood deeply embedded in it. As carefully and as gently as he could, Peter worked the wood out with his knife, after which the elephant gingerly put down its foot.

The elephant turned to face the man and with a rather curious look on its face, stared at him for several tense moments. Peter stood frozen, thinking of nothing else but being trampled. Eventually the elephant trumpeted loudly, turned and walked away. Peter never forgot that elephant or the events of that day.

Twenty years later, Peter was walking through the Chicago Zoo with his teenaged son. As they approached the elephant enclosure, one of the creatures turned and walked over to near where Peter and his son Cameron were standing. The large bull elephant stared at Peter, lifted its front foot off the ground, then put it down. The elephant did that several times then trumpeted loudly, all the while staring at the man.

Remembering the encounter in 1986, Peter could not help wondering if this was the same elephant. Peter summoned up his courage, climbed over the railing and made his way into the enclosure. He walked right up to the elephant and stared back in wonder. The elephant trumpeted again, wrapped its trunk around one of Peter legs and slammed him against the railing, killing him instantly.

Probably wasn’t the same fucking elephant.

This is for everyone who sends me those heart-warming bullshit stories.

211 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:11:29am

re: #208 Bulworth

Against people having healthcare/insurance? check
Against unemployed people? check
Against people receiving food stamps? check
Against minimum wage? check

I’m seeing a pattern here…

Wingnuts blame Obama for causing unemployment, but blame unemployed people for being poor and taking food stamps.

212 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:11:31am

What Fix It First is all about (resetting infrastructure priorities to get everything up to a state of good repair before expanding infrastructure and requiring a different calculus in cost-benefit analysis):

213 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:12:12am

re: #210 geoffm33

And yes, I’m cranky today :)

214 Sionainn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:14:32am

re: #210 geoffm33

LOL, just came across my facebook timeline

Image: 421010_10151168778526610_1829273808_n.jpg

I’m a sick puppy, too, because I laughed hard when I saw this on FB awhile back.

215 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:15:07am

Making Grumpy Cat the face of the GOP is an insult to Grumpy Cat.

216 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:15:24am

Image: 182638_612575375434644_1904547024_n.png

218 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:16:11am

For Rubio

Youtube Video
219 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:16:44am

re: #209 Amory Blaine

Rubio. The new facefeces of the republican party. Same as the old facefeces.

edited for accuracy

220 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:17:59am

re: #217 Killgore Trout

Iran’s Fake Super-Stealth Jet Takes to the Fake Skies, Now with Nice Photoshop

We must fake invade them now!

221 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:21:05am

re: #220 darthstar

We must fake invade them now!

“Wag the Dog”

Didn’t care for the movie, but first thing that came to mind.

222 Mattand  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:21:14am

re: #213 geoffm33

And yes, I’m cranky today :)

No apology needed or necessary.

223 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:24:05am
224 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:28:19am

For the Catholic Lizards:

Image: ashwednesday.jpg

Heh. And on that note, it’s time to head to work. :)

225 Bulworth  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:30:56am

re: #224 Lidane

Yeah, hope I remember to get my Episcopal ashes after work.

226 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:31:34am

Best thing about ash Wednesday are the Fish fry dinners. And the Pączki on Tuesday. :P

227 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:34:08am

re: #224 Lidane

For the Catholic Lizards:

Image: ashwednesday.jpg

Heh. And on that note, it’s time to head to work. :)

Oi, I had no idea what that was until a few years ago. Somebody came into work with the ‘ashes’ on their forehead. (creepy religious stuff, simulating eating his body, drinking his blood, then wearing the ashes or whatever that represents…) So of course dingleberry me says “you should go into the bathroom because you got some shit on your forehead you should clean off. Looks like grease or something.”

228 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:35:06am

re: #226 Amory Blaine

Best thing about ash Wednesday are the Fish fry dinners. And the Pączki on Tuesday. :P

Had a nice pancake & sausage supper at my little Episcopal church last night. I’ll go in for the 1:00PM service today I think. A silent cross of ash on my forehead is a nice statement against the squealing of those who would loudly pretend their faith.

229 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:35:57am

re: #224 Lidane

For the Catholic Lizards:

Image: ashwednesday.jpg

Heh. And on that note, it’s time to head to work. :)

I gave up the church one year for lent…by the end of seven weeks, the habit was broken and I never went back.

230 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:37:17am

re: #156 Flounder

Some pics from our dream Carnival Cruise
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]
So romantic, yellow waterfalls in the Gulf.

Ewww…that’s some nasty shit (no pun intended)…

‘Toilets are overflowing in the cabins, we are having to sleep in the hallways. Onion and cucumber sandwiches last night.

‘Cabin carpets are wet with urine.’
Debra Rightmire, passenger

‘No power, no water, having to use the bathroom in bags.’
Gary Keyes, whose wife is on board

‘People are fighting over food and stuff - that’s a bunch of savages.’
Brent Nutt, whose wife Bethany is on board

‘We have no power AT ALL, which means we can’t use the toilets, wash our hands, or take a shower’

A blogger Clinty76 reporting what his wife told him on board the Triumph

‘There’s no lights, no water, we can’t flush. Some people were able to shower.’
Donna Gutzman, on board

231 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:37:45am

re: #227 Ghost of Tom Joad

Oi, I had no idea what that was until a few years ago. Somebody came into work with the ‘ashes’ on their forehead. (creepy religious stuff, simulating eating his body, drinking his blood, then wearing the ashes or whatever that represents…) So of course dingleberry me says “you should go into the bathroom because you got some shit on your forehead you should clean off. Looks like grease or something.”

I also once said that to co-worker. Had no idea that smudge between the eyes.

232 Mattand  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:37:56am

re: #227 Ghost of Tom Joad

Oi, I had no idea what that was until a few years ago. Somebody came into work with the ‘ashes’ on their forehead. (creepy religious stuff, simulating eating his body, drinking his blood, then wearing the ashes or whatever that represents…) So of course dingleberry me says “you should go into the bathroom because you got some shit on your forehead you should clean off. Looks like grease or something.”

I was raised Catholic, but we did the bare minimum. For years, I would see people walking around with the Holy Smudge on Ash Wednesday, and not put two and two together.

I found it to be “creepy religious stuff” when I actually believed in all that. Now that I’m done with religion, it just seems even weirder.

Whatever gets you through the day, I guess.

233 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:39:12am

I’m a recovering Catholic myself. We all must find our path.

234 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:40:30am

re: #230 NJDhockeyfan

Ah. An experience like the early explorers on sailing ships.

I presume Captain Rum is in charge of the cruise?

235 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:41:25am

re: #217 Killgore Trout

Iran’s Fake Super-Stealth Jet Takes to the Fake Skies, Now with Nice Photoshop

ROLMAO!

236 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:43:12am

re: #230 NJDhockeyfan

It gives one a new-found appreciation for this Bill Gates project, no?

The grand prize went to a team from the California Institute of Technology, who coaxed a toilet into generating electricity and hydrogen.

The hydrogen comes from poop, which is transformed by an electrochemical reactor activated by solar power. The idea is that hydrogen will be stored in fuel cells, which can provide users with power in a crunch.

But perhaps the biggest boon, explains Carl Hensman, the Gates Foundations’ program officer for their water, sanitation, and hygiene team, is that the materials could be silk-screen printed in an electrochemical cell. The effort cuts costs on otherwise expensive parts. It’s this marriage of elements — an all-angles approach to a difficult design problem — that won them funding for the most successful new throne.

237 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:43:55am

re: #231 Vicious Babushka

I also once said that to co-worker. Had no idea that smudge between the eyes.

I have referred to it as “DFD” or “Dirty Forehead Day”. My manager was only slightly bemused.

238 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:46:33am

re: #229 darthstar

I gave up the church one year for lent…by the end of seven weeks, the habit was broken and I never went back.

Same here. Haven’t set foot in a church aside from weddings and funerals since I was 18.

239 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:46:41am

I heard err Rubio again did the my parents fled Cuba to escape Castro canard. Man I need coffee.

240 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:47:57am

re: #235 NJDhockeyfan

ROLMAO!

The photoshops are getting a little better but you’d think they have the sense not to use a stock image for the background. It’s really hard to guess what the hell they’re thinking.

241 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:49:20am

Embarrassing religious moments:

A co-worker saw a photo of my family on my desk and asked “are you Amish?” (we are Hasidic Jews). I said “Yeah that was my horse & buggy you saw in the parking garage!” I was working at GM as a VEHICLE ENGINEER.

We went out to lunch and I ordered an iced tea. A guy (from another GM facility, did not know I keep kosher) kept offering me fried shrimps from his plate. I said “No thank you, I’m on a diet.” He said (and I love this part, remember it so fondly) “BUT YOU’RE SO THIN!” LOL

242 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:49:48am

Cucumber sandwiches are delicious.

243 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:50:19am

re: #232 Mattand

I used to look forward to the smudge…going to Catholic school, I went to mass all the fucking time. Dad would drop us off early for school, so if it was cold out, we’d catch the 6:30am mass. Ash Wednesdays I’d get the smudge at 6:30 and be already smudged at 10am when we had school mass. Wore that smudge like a badge of honor…

244 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:50:27am

re: #242 Amory Blaine

Cucumber sandwiches are delicious.

Cucumber & shit sandwiches must suck.

245 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:54:40am

IDK when I was young I was forced to unplug a toilet at work while on my lunch break. I ate my liver sausage sandwich while I was performing the duty.

246 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:56:47am

Who would have guessed the Moonbats would be in a tizzy with conspiracy theories and anti=police hysteria?
BREAKING:”Burn that f**ker down,” say cops.

Cops say “Burn it Down”

Dishonest hate blogger and conspiracy nut Max Blumenthal rides again
Media Covers for Cops in Chris Dorner Standoff

The Guardian tried to run with the story but at least they’re honest enough to add some updates
Did the police start fire that killed Christopher Dorner?

2.50pm GMT update: The Daily Caller is claiming that “burner” is police slang for tear gas canister. More details soon.

3.50pm GMT update: The word “burner” may come from “BurnSafe” containers for CS gas canisters, made by the Covina-Thomas Company in Covina, California. On its website the company lists among its recent customers the LAPD, although not the San Bernardo County sheriff’s office. More details soon.

247 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:57:20am

re: #230 NJDhockeyfan

The whole incident goes against everything Carnival is trying to sell in their ad campaign that cruising is so much easier, relaxing, than other kinds of trips (amusement parks, national parks, etc.). Turns out that when the cruise ship works right, it’s often fine. But when a cruise ship goes wrong, it can get quite bad in a hurry - see Costa Concordia or the Carnival Triumph for how bad it can get.

And it’s hitting their bottom line too.

248 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 7:59:33am

Oh crap, my coffee thermos is cracked. I kept wondering why coffee kept dripping out of it.

249 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:05:15am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

Look at those moonbats!

When a structure is what we call “fully involved” - that is, the whole thing’s on fire - we are very, very, very unlikely to go in. We have to have extremely good reason to believe there’s someone alive in there.

Even then, it’s still an open question. The probability of saving a life has to be weight against the probability of losing a firefighter. Particulars of the building are evaluated. Some things pretty much eliminate all chances of firefighters entering a fully-involved structure:

- Evidence of structural compromise;
- Presence of explosives or oxygen tanks.

We’ve got both in this situation. The police were ‘peeling the walls off’ before the fire started, so there’s a whole lot of structural compromise. And we know there was definitely a large quantity of live ammunition, and it’s likely that there were other explosives.

Firefighting gear is great, but it has limits. You can get burned through it at high enough temperatures. You can easily be scalded through it. You can be cut through it, and then badly burned through the resulting hole. You can be crushed through it. You can be trapped in it long enough to run out of air. All of these are serious dangers that fire departments have to consider each time they think about ordering firefighters into a burning structure. Recovering evidence for an investigation isn’t a good enough reason to make that call.

…

how many people did he kill today?

do you care about who he killed AT ALL?

or do you actually think that what happens to the killer is what is important?

here’s a fucking news flash for you: what is important are the PEOPLE HE KILLED AND KIDNAPPED AND TIED UP!!!

…

important if police try to kill a suspect
by starting fire….separate from what suspect did
but I get why you are pissed

too much sympathy for this guy in lots of places

..

For one thing, it’s not BREAKING. That video was shot much earlier in the day and had been widely available all afternoon.

You have no idea how the fire started.

But don’t let that stop you from donning your tinfoil lid and concluding that what you think happened actually happened.

Look at those crazy KOSkids!

250 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:05:43am

re: #240 Killgore Trout

The photoshops are getting a little better but you’d think they have the sense not to use a stock image for the background. It’s really hard to guess what the hell they’re thinking.

I guess they think they can fool anyone with those picture even though they get caught every time. Not the brightest bulbs are they?

251 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:07:35am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

Seems to me that it’s fair to think the police started the fire, given the tear gas grenades. Which of course is supposed to drive a suspect out making a fire a moot point. Unless that thing lands in a bathtub, it will probably start a fire. Conspiracy? Laughable. A gunman that dangerous is going to get maximum force for safety of everyone around. I guess this tape will so into the same crappy blogs that already have the Davidian video and bs. Ruby Ridge etc.

I found this about tear gas.

History has shown that the tactical community needs a better system for delivering Non-lethal pyrotechnic chemical agents when confronted with barricaded suspects. By their very nature pyrotechnic Non-lethal chemical agents can burn in excess of 1000 degrees and constitute an extreme fire hazard. A system is needed which would minimize the chance of starting fires. Through the development of the Burn Safe and Gas Rain, heavy concentrations of pyrotechnic Non-lethal chemical agents can be delivered efficiently with minimal probability of starting a fire. Both the Bum Safe and Gas Ram are multi-purpose tools. They enable tactical teams various ways to deal with barricaded suspects by delivering Non-lethal chemical agents into hardened structures. The systems are designed so that a delivery team can deploy the tools into the structure with minimal risk of starting a fire. The effectiveness of pyrotechnic CS over liquid or dry powder delivery systems has been proven historically. Pyrotechnic CS has effectively denied access to and forced individuals from fortified structures. Liquid and powder barricade penetrating projectiles have proven to be less effective in maintaining airborne persistency. They are potentially dangerous due to the ballistic capability of the projectile which could strike a suspect. The frangible projectiles often deploy their contents into drapes, furniture or embed into walls; thereby decreasing their effectiv

252 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:08:38am

re: #244 Vicious Babushka

Cucumber & shit sandwiches must suck.

Apparently, they’re all that’s on the menu on Carnival Cruises these days.

Much of the ship’s electrical power went down in the fire, causing widespread malfunctions, including taking out sanitary systems.
Passengers have reported sewage sloshing around in hallways, flooded rooms and trouble getting enough to eat.
“It’s disgusting. It’s the worst thing ever,” passenger Ann Barlow told CNN

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

253 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:09:06am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

Conspiracy kooks at DKos? You don’t say!

254 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:10:37am

EARTH TO TGDN: MINIMUM WAGE IS STILL MINIMUM.

255 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:10:59am

I think the police may have set fire to the house to get him to flee from it. Setting fire to the house is not an attempt to kill him; being in a burning house is very survivable by, say, leaving the house. If he chose to stay in it, he chose to stay in it. I have no problem with the cops setting the house on fire if they did.

There are people who think that the cops fully intended to kill him before bringing him in— the main reason for thinking this, I’d say, is that the LAPD shot the fuck out of a couple of pickups based on no actual threat. These were likely stupid, trigger-happy mistakes and not any actual policy. There are probably quite a few individual cops who’d shoot him without giving him much of a chance to surrender— I also don’t have a problem with that, either, since he was trying to wage ‘asymmetrical warfare’ and pretending to surrender could easily be a part of that.

256 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:15:01am

re: #251 Political Atheist

Seems to me that it’s fair to think the police started the fire, given the tear gas grenades. Which of course is supposed to drive a suspect out making a fire a moot point. Unless that thing lands in a bathtub, it will probably start a fire. Conspiracy? Laughable. A gunman that dangerous is going to get maximum force for safety of everyone around. I guess this tape will so into the same crappy blogs that already have the Davidian video and bs. Ruby Ridge etc.

I found this about tear gas.

It’s possible that the fire was started by the tear gas canister but I’m pretty sure it’s very illegal for the police to intentionally set fire to a house. To use the police slang “burner” for tear gas as proof that the police intentionally set the fire is silly.

257 dragonfire1981  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:15:21am

re: #252 darthstar

Apparently, they’re all that’s on the menu on Carnival Cruises these days.

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

Here’s what’s confusing to me: They had a sister ship (i.e. another cruise ship) drop off some supplies to them recently.

Why couldn’t they have transferred the passengers to that ship (which you know had power and running water) and gotten them home faster?

Yes I know there’s logistics to consider and I know it would impact the vacationers aboard the other boat but surely there is enough space on a giant cruise ship to fit the passengers from both boats. If conditions on the damaged ship are as bad as indicated, I would think an evacuation would be a reasonable option.

258 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:15:37am

re: #256 Killgore Trout

It’s possible that the fire was started by the tear gas canister but I’m pretty sure it’s very illegal for the police to intentionally set fire to a house.

Can you explain why you think it’s illegal for the police to set fire to a house under these circumstances?

259 dragonfire1981  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:16:08am

re: #256 Killgore Trout

It’s possible that the fire was started by the tear gas canister but I’m pretty sure it’s very illegal for the police to intentionally set fire to a house. To use the police slang “burner” for tear gas as proof that the police intentionally set the fire is silly.

Even if they’ve confirmed there’s a hostile criminal inside who has already wounded/killed several of their own?

260 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:18:55am

re: #257 dragonfire1981

Here’s what’s confusing to me: They had a sister ship (i.e. another cruise ship) drop off some supplies to them recently.

Why couldn’t they have transferred the passengers to that ship (which you know had power and running water) and gotten them home faster?

Yes I know there’s logistics to consider and I know it would impact the vacationers aboard the other boat but surely there is enough space on a giant cruise ship to fit the passengers from both boats. If conditions on the damaged ship are as bad as indicated, I would think an evacuation would be a reasonable option.

The problem is getting them between the boats. Panicky people going down ladders onto the lifeboats or whatever they have, right next to a big ship that’s lacking propulsion and guidance, is not good. Lowering the liferafts by winch is also not risk-free.

261 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:19:07am

re: #257 dragonfire1981

Here’s what’s confusing to me: They had a sister ship (i.e. another cruise ship) drop off some supplies to them recently.

Why couldn’t they have transferred the passengers to that ship (which you know had power and running water) and gotten them home faster?

Yes I know there’s logistics to consider and I know it would impact the vacationers aboard the other boat but surely there is enough space on a giant cruise ship to fit the passengers from both boats. If conditions on the damaged ship are as bad as indicated, I would think an evacuation would be a reasonable option.

I am sure there are insurance regs about accepting more passengers than the ship is legally licensed to carry, as well as logistics of ship to ship transfer. This ain’t the fucking Titanic.

262 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:20:18am

Here’s the telegraph: Police ‘tried to burn out Christopher Dorner’

New footage of America’s most wanted man Christopher Dorner’s last stand appears to show police officers urging each other to burn the building down.

263 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:20:22am

re: #257 dragonfire1981

Here’s what’s confusing to me: They had a sister ship (i.e. another cruise ship) drop off some supplies to them recently.

Why couldn’t they have transferred the passengers to that ship (which you know had power and running water) and gotten them home faster?

Yes I know there’s logistics to consider and I know it would impact the vacationers aboard the other boat but surely there is enough space on a giant cruise ship to fit the passengers from both boats. If conditions on the damaged ship are as bad as indicated, I would think an evacuation would be a reasonable option.

It would take them less than a day to ferry everyone back on another ship at full power. Four days? And you know the pool is filthy as well so there’s no bathing options whatsoever. If I was on that boat, I’d grab a deck chair and sleep on it. Take turns with whomever I was travelling with making drink and food runs. Pee over the side of the ship.

264 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:21:44am

re: #262 Killgore Trout

Here’s the telegraph: Police ‘tried to burn out Christopher Dorner’

Grab a drink of water. Nobody gives a crap about Dorner if he’s dead..he is dead, right?

265 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:22:20am

re: #257 dragonfire1981

Here’s what’s confusing to me: They had a sister ship (i.e. another cruise ship) drop off some supplies to them recently.

Why couldn’t they have transferred the passengers to that ship (which you know had power and running water) and gotten them home faster?

Yes I know there’s logistics to consider and I know it would impact the vacationers aboard the other boat but surely there is enough space on a giant cruise ship to fit the passengers from both boats. If conditions on the damaged ship are as bad as indicated, I would think an evacuation would be a reasonable option.

Probably a complex set of safety concerns and design limitations leading to potential liability issues. And then a decision to not take the additional risk. (And I hope not simply a financial decision to not mess up the cruise of two shiploads of people as compared to one.)

And a large unpowered ship drifting (or even under tow) is a hazard to get close to and work with. Especially in open water with wave action and such affecting the use of boats. And I suspect the ability to get a gangway in place (which would still have considerable risks) is probably unlikely to impossible.

266 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:23:02am

Conspiracies grow over LAPD’s call for #Dorner blackout

AS the LAPD surrounded the burning cabin containing former US Marine Reserve and alleged cop killer Christopher Dorner, police called for a worldwide Twitter blackout.

Conspiracy theories are mounting that the police in the San Bernardino County created their own version of events, trying at all costs to block journalists’ from accessing the scene to confirm how the events unfolded.

…Earlier today the US Marshal’s Service district chief Kurt Ellingson told CNN that “a suspect” tried to get out of the back door of the cabin, but he was pushed back inside. Twitter users jumped to many conclusions including allegations that police left Dorner to burn alive inside the cabin.
“Cops started the fire and now lying about it,” tweeted user @Anon4Justice. “Heard them on scanner one hour ago ‘Going forward with the burn’. #dorner”.

Another user @GeorgieBC wrote: “So US ‘authorities’ have apparently burnt someone to death in a cabin and let it burn through the basement so no body is left. #Dorner”.

She continued: “So police scanners were cut and media was told to stop filming then they lit the cabin on fire? Anyone ask for surrender? #Dorner.”
Another user @nicsha tweeted: “I don’t sympathise with murders but burning a man alive in a cabin who is ‘suspected to be a guy who might have killed’ is wrong #dorner”.

Hacking group Anonymous also weighed in, calling the police’s requests for silence “shady”.

“Note to media: If cops ask you to back away, it’s b/c they’re about to do something shady. It has nothing to do with your safety. #dorner,” @Occupythemob tweeted.

San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department spokeswoman Cindy Bachman said that no one was allowed to go near the fire, including the fire department.

Twitter user, @DanjoLabeef tweeted: “‘Hey, so this guy went into a cabin. We’re not sure it’s #Dorner, and even if it is, we’re not sure he’s guilty. Let’s light it on fire!’”.

“#Dorner chased back into cabin when SO plan was to set fire??”, tweeted another user @eurekasue49.

Twitter user @alpamin wrote: “Why don’t they put that fire out? They obviously don’t want him alive!!! #dorner.”

This conspiracy will stay around for a while. Dorner supporters will not accept that he himself is responsible for everything that happened and will look for any reason to blame the police.

267 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:24:47am

re: #262 Killgore Trout

Did you have any source for your assertion that it’s illegal for cops to set fire to the house other than your own truthiness, Killgore?

To me, it seems like an odd thing to believe. Cops can use a tank to smash through the side of it, they can shoot the shit out of it, they can throw flashbangs and tear gas and other things that have a possibility of setting it on fire, but they can’t actually set it on fire? It’s a free-standing building, they can cut off any gas supply to it from the outside. Setting fire to it seems ethically and tactically okay.

So did you have any reason for thinking it’s illegal?

268 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:26:49am

re: #266 NJDhockeyfan

Conspiracies grow over LAPD’s call for #Dorner blackout

This conspiracy will stay around for a while. Dorner supporters will not accept that he himself is responsible for everything that happened and will look for any reason to blame the police.

I’m pretty sure the people who believe this stuff will continue to do so permanently. Just like the 9-11 truthers, it just takes a few media clips, out of context facts and anomolies is media coverage and the conspiracy nuts will stick to it forever.

269 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:26:50am

Last night it was reported on CNN that “suspect attempted to leave the cabin and was driven back inside” (by hail of bullets). Since media was not allowed anywhere near the cabin, they were totally relying on what they were told by LE sources.

There were conflicting reports, such as “Suspect fired over 500 rounds” and “ammo dump ignited by fire” when it was impossible for Dorner to have carried that much ammo around while he was running through the woods.

270 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:27:25am

re: #266 NJDhockeyfan

Conspiracies grow over LAPD’s call for #Dorner blackout

This conspiracy will stay around for a while. Dorner supporters will not accept that he himself is responsible for everything that happened and will look for any reason to blame the police.

Dorner’s supporters - all twelve of them, can go fuck themselves. The fact that they have people (like yourself) watching them to see what they’ll do, say or…heaven forbid…tweet! is even more embarrassing to our phylum.

271 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:28:01am

re: #258 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It’s possible that someone could construe the setting of a fire as excessive force. I’m sure someone will try to suggest that and bring up Waco or the MOVE debacle in Philly, but the difference between situations is that in the 1985 Philly incident cops not only used tear gas and fired what amounted to 10k rounds at the rowhouses where MOVE were holed up in an actual bunker but then dropped actual explosives on the bunker from a helicopter resulting in a fire that ended up engulfing the entire block and 9 died. Here in the Dorner case, cops didn’t drop an actual bomb on the cabin and appear to have used tear gas to force Dorner to exit the cabin.

Firing the tear gas isn’t excessive force considering all the facts and circumstances of what we know of Dorner. It was a nonlethal method of dealing with a serious threat.

A fire that was inadvertently set in the course of firing the tear gas isn’t excessive force. Letting the fire burn isn’t necessarily excessive force either considering the deadly threat posed by Dorner and that he’d already shot and killed cops and relatives of cops.

Some people trying to make hash of the situation by keying in on codewords for taking a tactical action (firing a tear gas canister - burner) isn’t really any different than the troofers who say that 7WTC was deliberately destroyed by keying on the FDNY “pulling” its guys out of the building. It’s a deliberate distortion of what happened.

272 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:28:28am

I’m convinced now that there’s always going to be a conspiracy for something no matter what. Now to find a bunch of CTers to help me explain why I don’t have a date for Valentines Day…………

273 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:30:12am

re: #271 lawhawk

I wouldn’t even have a problem if they did intentionally set the fire, nor do I think it would constitute excessive force. Dorner has had every chance to surrender. If setting fire to the house was considered a good tactical way to get him to get the fuck out of it, it’d represent an opportunity to take him alive, because there’s very, very little chance that if they stormed the house that they’d feel confident enough they had the drop on him to not immediately shoot when they saw him.

274 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:31:35am

re: #272 HappyWarrior

I’m convinced now that there’s always going to be a conspiracy for something no matter what. Now to find a bunch of CTers to help me explain why I don’t have a date for Valentines Day…………

There is a flat-earth society. I know one of them.

It’s when conspiracy theorists gain actual political power— like the GOP, which is basically a large accumulation of conspiracy theories— that they’re a problem. People saying dumb shit on twitter doesn’t cause an actual problem.

275 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:33:45am

re: #267 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Given the circumstances, it seems like at least the best decision out of a list of bad decisions to try and get him.

As long as they were dead certain that house was empty besides Dorner himself.

I do wonder if they have specific guidelines in their ability to draw out a suspect who has taken sanctuary in a house/building. Can they set it on fire? Did they exhaust all options before making that decision (considering they were having a shootout with him, I’d say so)?

I’m sure somewhere an entrepreneurial civil liberties lawyer could find a legal ramification of going that route, but again, lesser of various evils and sacrificing more police officers in attempts to get him vs. just burning it down.

276 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:33:58am

re: #257 dragonfire1981

Part of it has to deal with trying to avoid screwing the passengers on the functioning ship (which will result in more refunds/comps) and part of it has to deal with the passenger loads and where to put those who are being displaced from the Triumph (it’s just not feasible). The Triumph is a larger ship than the Legend that first appeared on scene to assist. The ships carry just enough provisions for the cruise they’re on, so it’s not like they’ve got so much that they could transfer over either.

277 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:34:23am

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

100,000+ GT weight ship. Roughly on par with a Nimitz-class carrier.

But obviously not designed in such a way to keep engine rooms separate or have sufficient backup generator capacity to handle a emergency of this scope.

And given the picture I do wonder what sort of things are worked into the design to allow working with the ship away from a dock in terms of repair, evacuation, etc.

Going to be a pile of lawsuits and some big insurance claims out of this. And then get to see what sort of margins Carnival operates within and whether they are able to ride things out.

278 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:34:24am

re: #274 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

There is a flat-earth society. I know one of them.

It’s when conspiracy theorists gain actual political power— like the GOP, which is basically a large accumulation of conspiracy theories— that they’re a problem. People saying dumb shit on twitter doesn’t cause an actual problem.

Yep, very true. There’s always going to be someone out there hollering and hollering that space aliens invented donuts to fatten humans up but you’re right, it’s when CTers have political power that they’re a problem because they have actual influence on policy.

279 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:34:54am

Setting fire to the house may be acceptable. If they are 199% positive no on else is in there with him.

280 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:36:23am

re: #275 Ghost of Tom Joad

I don’t think it was deliberately set afire. I’m thinking it was a combination of tear gas canisters setting combustibles on fire and that the building itself was a log cabin construction. Without any fire department moving in to fight the flames, the building was going to go up in flames. Withholding fire fighting is not a criminal act either under the circumstances where the shooter has already shown a willingness to attack law enforcement on multiple occasions.

281 efuseakay  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:36:56am

re: #275 Ghost of Tom Joad

Given the circumstances, it seems like at least the best decision out of a list of bad decisions to try and get him.

As long as they were dead certain that house was empty besides Dorner himself.

I do wonder if they have specific guidelines in their ability to draw out a suspect who has taken sanctuary in a house/building. Can they set it on fire? Did they exhaust all options before making that decision (considering they were having a shootout with him, I’d say so)?

I’m sure somewhere an entrepreneurial civil liberties lawyer could find a legal ramification of going that route, but again, lesser of various evils and sacrificing more police officers in attempts to get him vs. just burning it down.

From what it sounds like, they don’t even know if it was actually Dorner. I can only imagine the backlash/embarrassment the LEAs involved would suffer should he come out with a video taunting them, proving that he’s still alive and on the run.

282 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:37:10am

“Backup generator? Nahh put in another rock wall”.

283 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:37:30am

re: #271 lawhawk

It’s possible that someone could construe the setting of a fire as excessive force. I’m sure someone will try to suggest that and bring up Waco or the MOVE debacle in Philly, but the difference between situations is that in the 1985 Philly incident cops not only used tear gas and fired what amounted to 10k rounds at the rowhouses where MOVE were holed up in an actual bunker but then dropped actual explosives on the bunker from a helicopter resulting in a fire that ended up engulfing the entire block and 9 died. Here in the Dorner case, cops didn’t drop an actual bomb on the cabin and appear to have used tear gas to force Dorner to exit the cabin.

Firing the tear gas isn’t excessive force considering all the facts and circumstances of what we know of Dorner. It was a nonlethal method of dealing with a serious threat.

A fire that was inadvertently set in the course of firing the tear gas isn’t excessive force. Letting the fire burn isn’t necessarily excessive force either considering the deadly threat posed by Dorner and that he’d already shot and killed cops and relatives of cops.

Some people trying to make hash of the situation by keying in on codewords for taking a tactical action (firing a tear gas canister - burner) isn’t really any different than the troofers who say that 7WTC was deliberately destroyed by keying on the FDNY “pulling” its guys out of the building. It’s a deliberate distortion of what happened.

Not to mention the clusterfuck that occurred during the shootout with the Symbionese Liberation Army, when they did not even know of Patty Hearst was in the building or not.

284 Ghost of Tom Joad  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:38:24am

re: #280 lawhawk

Yup. Either way, let it burn, as long as the original caveat of knowing 100% it was empty besides Dorner.

285 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:38:44am

re: #281 efuseakay

I think they were really, really, really, really confident it was Dorner. They earlier pickup shootouts probably made for some intense morning meetings that involved telling everyone to stop going off half-cocked.

I suspect colorful language may have been used.

286 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:40:02am

re: #281 efuseakay

From what it sounds like, they don’t even know if it was actually Dorner. I can only imagine the backlash/embarrassment the LEAs involved would suffer should he come out with a video taunting them, proving that he’s still alive and on the run.

Not too embarrassing though. I don’t think the authorities have definitively stated it is (was) Dorner, only that the body has been taken to the morgue for ID
If it isn’t, then someone else died there that wasn’t exactly a “model citizen”

287 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:40:34am

WHAT RIGHT-WING RACISM? (A link because I’m not embedding it here)

288 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:40:34am

re: #280 lawhawk

Considering the kinds of LEOs who were positioning themselves outside the cabin (and reported as SWAT forces), it’s entirely possible that the LEOs had infrared gear and/or remote control robots to see whether there were others in the building at the time.

289 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:41:58am

re: #286 sattv4u2

Not too embarrassing though. I don’t think the authorities have definitively stated it is (was) Dorner, only that the body has been taken to the morgue for ID
If it isn’t, then someone else died there that wasn’t exactly a “model citizen”

In the initial day or two when the Dorner situation broke wasn’t there a hotel standoff that some initially thought was Dorner, but turned out to be another fugitive?

290 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:42:55am

re: #280 lawhawk

I don’t think it was deliberately set afire. I’m thinking it was a combination of tear gas canisters setting combustibles on fire and that the building itself was a log cabin construction. Without any fire department moving in to fight the flames, the building was going to go up in flames. Withholding fire fighting is not a criminal act either under the circumstances where the shooter has already shown a willingness to attack law enforcement on multiple occasions.

It was not wise to send the firefighters in so soon with all the ammo going off.

291 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:43:50am

re: #289 Feline Fearless Leader

In the initial day or two when the Dorner situation broke wasn’t there a hotel standoff that some initially thought was Dorner, but turned out to be another fugitive?

I hadn’t heard that, but wouldn’t be shocked with the number of “tips” the cops got in such a short timeframe

292 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:45:29am

re: #286 sattv4u2

Not too embarrassing though. I don’t think the authorities have definitively stated it is (was) Dorner, only that the body has been taken to the morgue for ID
If it isn’t, then someone else died there that wasn’t exactly a “model citizen”

I heard they found his drivers license underneath the rubble of the cabin.

293 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:46:02am

re: #291 sattv4u2

I hadn’t heard that, but wouldn’t be shocked with the number of “tips” the cops got in such a short timeframe

Need to check back and see if that was just rumors flying around in the first 24 hours, or there was actually something to the report. Will do some searching and report back in a while.

294 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:46:26am

re: #290 NJDhockeyfan

It was not wise to send the firefighters in so soon with all the ammo going off.

How did all the ammo get in there?

295 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:46:52am

re: #290 NJDhockeyfan

It was not wise to send the firefighters in so soon with all the ammo going off.

A few firemen just got shot going to a fire. There’s no way they’d send them in in this situation.

296 efuseakay  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:47:31am

re: #285 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I think they were really, really, really, really confident it was Dorner. They earlier pickup shootouts probably made for some intense morning meetings that involved telling everyone to stop going off half-cocked.

I suspect colorful language may have been used.

I sure hope so. That we haven’t heard from this guy on FB/Twitter/YT after yesterday really does lead me to believe it was him. But the way the LEAs have handled this in the previous days still brings out the cynic in me.

The sooner this guy is off the street, the better.

297 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:47:38am

re: #292 NJDhockeyfan

I heard they found his drivers license underneath the rubble of the cabin.

hmmmm, I would assume he had his license on him (as opposed to placing it aside on a table or something) and if the body was burned beyond recognition I would imagine a piece of plastic (his license) would have melted

Maybe,, maybe not

298 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:47:50am

re: #293 Feline Fearless Leader

Need to check back and see if that was just rumors flying around in the first 24 hours, or there was actually something to the report. Will do some searching and report back in a while.

:)

299 dragonfire1981  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:48:01am

Man, I’m glad I don’t comment over on this site.

Due to an unusually high number of death threats, we are now requiring valid e-mail addresses on all comments.

300 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:48:18am

re: #292 NJDhockeyfan

I heard they found his drivers license underneath the rubble of the cabin.

Just like Mohamed Atta’s passport. Inside job!
/

301 efuseakay  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:48:22am

re: #286 sattv4u2

Not too embarrassing though. I don’t think the authorities have definitively stated it is (was) Dorner, only that the body has been taken to the morgue for ID
If it isn’t, then someone else died there that wasn’t exactly a “model citizen”

Very true, but you know how “TeamDorner” would be spinning this!

302 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:49:13am

re: #278 HappyWarrior

Yep, very true. There’s always going to be someone out there hollering and hollering that space aliens invented donuts to fatten humans up but you’re right, it’s when CTers have political power that they’re a problem because they have actual influence on policy.

To take a good example, climate change deniers are conspiracy theorists. They probably don’t think of themselves as such, but it’s what they are: they believe that 99% of the climatologists on earth, every scientific body, every major government on earth are either deliberately lying about global warming, or lying about the amount of scientific certitude we have that global warming exists.

Yet you’ll probably find global warming deniers mocking other people for being conspiracy theorists on other topics. Sometimes people don’t think things through, and so wind up being accidental conspiracy theorists.

303 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:49:46am

re: #300 Killgore Trout

Just like Mohamed Atta’s passport. Inside job!
/

I hear all the Jewish people were e-mailed not to be around Bear Mountain yesterday!!!
/

304 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:50:43am

re: #302 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

To take a good example, climate change deniers are conspiracy theorists. They probably don’t think of themselves as such, but it’s what they are: they believe that 99% of the climatologists on earth, every scientific body, every major government on earth are either deliberately lying about global warming, or lying about the amount of scientific certitude we have that global warming exists.

Yet you’ll probably find global warming deniers mocking other people for being conspiracy theorists on other topics. Sometimes people don’t think things through, and so wind up being accidental conspiracy theorists.

That is a good example and what I was thinking of too.

305 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:51:19am

re: #297 sattv4u2

hmmmm, I would assume he had his license on him (as opposed to placing it aside on a table or something) and if the body was burned beyond recognition I would imagine a piece of plastic (his license) would have melted

Maybe,, maybe not

Christopher Dorner’s wallet found in burned-out cabin, sources say

Investigators were picking through the rubble of a burned-out cabin in California’s San Bernardino Mountains on Wednesday, trying to piece together details of the violent last stand for a fugitive former Los Angeles police officer whose life apparently ended hours earlier in a barrage of bullets and blazing fire.

The San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office said charred human remains were found in the rubble where Christopher Dorner is said to have been cornered Tuesday. “We have reason to believe that it is him,” sheriff’s spokeswoman Cynthia Bachman said.

A wallet with a California driver’s license bearing the name Christopher Dorner also was found, the Associated Press reported, citing a law enforcement official who was briefed on the investigation but declined to be named because of the ongoing probe.

306 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:52:25am

re: #305 NJDhockeyfan

I guess he had a flame retardant wallet!!
Image: fire_resistant_wallet.jpg

307 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:55:03am

re: #306 sattv4u2

I guess he had a flame retardant wallet!!

Any fireman will tell you fires are weird. They go in paths, in lanes, you’ll find totally unburned things right next to incinerated stuff.

In other happy news, a ton of arson investigators are completely unscientific and tons of arson cases are now being shown to be suspect to do the lack rigor.

308 efuseakay  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:56:11am

re: #302 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

To take a good example, climate change deniers are conspiracy theorists. They probably don’t think of themselves as such, but it’s what they are: they believe that 99% of the climatologists on earth, every scientific body, every major government on earth are either deliberately lying about global warming, or lying about the amount of scientific certitude we have that global warming exists.

Yet you’ll probably find global warming deniers mocking other people for being conspiracy theorists on other topics. Sometimes people don’t think things through, and so wind up being accidental conspiracy theorists.

Yup. Cryosat really is a conspiracy!

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk…]

309 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:57:24am

{{yawn}}

Don’t like working the overnight shift. Just as it gets going here my eyelids start slamming shut

Hitting the hay soon

310 dragonfire1981  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:58:33am

You know, Dorner’s not a dumbass. I wouldn’t be surprised if he left that wallet there on purpose to throw off investigators.

311 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:58:38am

re: #270 darthstar

Dorner’s supporters - all twelve of them, can go fuck themselves. The fact that they have people (like yourself) watching them to see what they’ll do, say or…heaven forbid…tweet! is even more embarrassing to our phylum.

A+ post, would quote and upding again.

312 dragonfire1981  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:00:37am

re: #309 sattv4u2

{{yawn}}

Don’t like working the overnight shift. Just as it gets going here my eyelids start slamming shut

Hitting the hay soon

I feel you. I work a night shift job at a casino that typically either has me working from 2 am to somewhere between 10 am and 12 noon or 4 am to somewhere between 12 noon and 2ish.

Afternoon naps have become my friend. The hours aren’t ideal BUT it’s great having my afternoons free for appointments and such during the week and also being able to attend events in the evening so long as I take the aforementioned nap.

313 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:02:08am

re: #310 dragonfire1981

You know, Dorner’s not a dumbass. I wouldn’t be surprised if he left that wallet there on purpose to throw off investigators.

Extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence, Occam’s Razor, etc.

It’s possible, but I would be surprised if it were the case. The fact that he went to an isolated place like Big Bear Lake in the first place isn’t really indicative of a scheming mastermind.

314 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:02:52am

From George Takei’s FB page:

Everyone’s a critic

315 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:03:16am

re: #313 erik_t

Nor is writing a manifesto and delivering it. If they hadn’t had a clue who he was, this’d be a fuckload worse. We can thank his vanity.

317 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:08:18am

re: #277 Feline Fearless Leader

I’d also note that it’s flagged in the Bahamas, which allows them to avoid all sorts of US safety regulations.

318 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:10:01am

None of them ships fly under American flags.

319 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:11:40am

re: #316 Killgore Trout

Some on the ground footage
Christopher Dorner Shootout Footage: Reporter Carter Evans Captures Raw Video Of Firefight (VIDEO)

Your linky frozed up my puter

YOU’RE IN ON TEH KORNSPIRACY!!!

320 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:13:58am

re: #319 sattv4u2

Your linky frozed up my puter

YOU’RE IN ON TEH KORNSPIRACY!!!

The video player is buggy on that one. It took me a couple tries to get it working.

321 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:14:21am

Flying the Flag, Fleeing the State

But maritime lawlessness isn’t confined to pirates. Thanks to a system of ship registration called “flags of convenience,” it is all too easy for unscrupulous ship owners to get away with criminal behavior. They have evaded prosecution for environmental damage like oil spills, as well as poor labor conditions, forcing crews to work like slaves without adequate pay or rest. But unlike piracy, which seems intractable, the appalling conditions on some merchant ships could be stopped.

Ships used to fly the flags of their nation. They were floating pieces of their home country on ungovernable seas, with all the advantages and disadvantages of government oversight: if things went wrong, seafarers were protected by their governments. If they did wrong, they could be punished.

But in the early 20th century, this began to change. Panama, seeking to attract American ships avoiding Prohibition laws, allowed non-Panamanians to fly its flag, for a fee. Liberia and other countries followed suit. Today these “open registries” are used by over 60 percent of shippers, up from 4 percent in the 1950s.

Under the flags of convenience system, registries have been divorced from government oversight. North Korea has a thriving registry, as does landlocked Mongolia. Liberia’s registry, the second-largest in the world, flourished even during a dozen years of civil war. Some registries allow ship owners to change the flags they’re registered under within 48 hours; some require little more than a signature or an online form from an owner. Many don’t require owners to disclose their identities at all.

322 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:15:42am

re: #312 dragonfire1981

I feel you. I work a night shift job at a casino that typically either has me working from 2 am to somewhere between 10 am and 12 noon or 4 am to somewhere between 12 noon and 2ish.

Afternoon naps have become my friend. The hours aren’t ideal BUT it’s great having my afternoons free for appointments and such during the week and also being able to attend events in the evening so long as I take the aforementioned nap.

I used to make the transition from day>nights>days easier. Would take about a week to adjust my body clock (we typically do 3 or 4 months of days followed by the same of overnights)

Now that I’m aged, it takes forever to adjust, and just as I do, it’s back to the other shift!
{sigh}

323 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:15:47am

Memo to idiot client: Tying the hands of my project manager then getting pissed off at her for not managing your project is a dick move. It’s like hiring a chef then getting pissed off at him because you didn’t give him a kitchen and utensils to work with.

Moron.

324 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:16:09am

re: #306 sattv4u2

I guess he had a flame retardant wallet!!

““If the wallet did burn I do believe that it’s the first time in history that fire has ever burned a wallet. I do believe that it defies physics that the cabin which burned in on itself—it is impossible for a cabin to burn a wallet without explosives being involved. It would be the first time in history a wallet was burned by fire. It is physically impossible.”

~Rosie O’Donnell

325 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:17:06am

re: #324 NJDhockeyfan

LOL

326 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:18:21am

re: #311 Lidane

A+ post, would quote and upding again.

Thanks…I know he’s “only posting links” and isn’t really a gore-whore himself (he just likes following gore-whores to see what they’ll say next), but looking for a major conspiracy in a local law enforcement incident is just silly.

327 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:18:43am

re: #317 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Carnival’s just glad that the ship still floats. Passenger comfort takes a back seat, and they’ll hang their hat on the fact that the fire suppression systems worked as they should to prevent a bigger catastrophe.

It doesn’t mean that the cruise ship industry should breath a sigh of relief. It just highlights that the cruise ships can and do have big problems when the main power systems go down and the backups really don’t have the capacity to handle the loads (literally and figuratively).

And how to get them to address that problem is something that the IMO will have to address.

328 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:19:12am

re: #279 Amory Blaine

Setting fire to the house may be acceptable. If they are 199% positive no on else is in there with him.

I’m pretty sure that if I owned the house and all the stuff inside it, my legal team and I would have a different view.

329 Bear  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:21:33am

re: #321 Amory Blaine

Can only vessels built in the US be registered as a US flagged vessel?

330 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:22:33am

re: #329 Bear

Can only vessels built in the US be registered as a US flagged vessel?

Nope.

331 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:22:48am

re: #324 NJDhockeyfan

Because when I think of scientific authorities, Rosie O’Donnell is the first name that comes to mind. ///

332 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:23:56am
333 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:24:42am

re: #331 Lidane

I’m still holding that Pluto demotion against him. /

334 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:26:58am

re: #327 lawhawk

It doesn’t mean that the cruise ship industry should breath a sigh of relief. It just highlights that the cruise ships can and do have big problems when the main power systems go down and the backups really don’t have the capacity to handle the loads (literally and figuratively).

Turns out shit goes sour when non-revenue tonnage is cut to the absolute bone to add another deck of luxury cabins, to the substantial detriment of passenger safety and comfort when things go wrong.

Who could have ever seen such a thing coming?!

335 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:27:34am

Laser-like focus, etc. —

336 A Mom Anon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:28:13am

A little OT FYI:

Mice can do extraordinary damage in the engine compartment of your car. I had made an appointment to get my oil changed at the dealership this morning and on the way there smoke started rolling out from under the hood. Fortunately I was only about a mile away from the dealership,but by the time I got there, there was no coolant left in the car. The early damage assessment is as follows:
Coolant line-chewed,coolant tank-chewed,firewall-chewed,fuel line-almost chewed through,top of one of the struts(plastic cap part)-chewed,battery insulation-chewed,wiring harness-partially chewed. And that’s just what can be seen without taking more of it apart. State Farm says I’m covered, but I won’t know for sure til an adjuster looks at it. What’s not covered is a freaking rental car, so I am sans wheels for at least a week.

The shop supervisor told me that placing moth balls inside the engine compartment will keep them away and to place some in a dish under the engine on the garage floor. I am scared to know how much this is going to end up costing, the mechanic working on my car said he had one come in last winter with nearly 10K of rodent damage and insurance wouldn’t cover it.

I hate today.

337 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:28:13am

Wow, a liberal Godwin! Those are rare.

338 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:30:15am

re: #331 Lidane

Because when I think of scientific authorities, Rosie O’Donnell is the first name that comes to mind. ///

Or anyone in the GOP.
Bam!

339 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:32:40am

*headdesk*

Dear TGDN nutters,

You will never outgun the US government. Ever.

Deal with it.

No love,
Me

340 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:35:02am

re: #324 NJDhockeyfan

LOL
re: #333 lawhawk

I’m still holding that Pluto demotion against him. /

he doesn’t appear upset by it!!

Image: DSNY-SM-13.jpg
/

341 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:36:21am

re: #339 Lidane

@RepGangster .@gbmegafan Shouldn’t police (and all govt) be outgunned by citizens? Isn’t that what the founders would consider liberty? #tgdn #tcot #2A

Look up the Whiskey Rebellion, you unbelievable fucking moron.

342 chadu  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:36:40am
Why aren’t the kidz at Tiger Beat On The Potomac ever at my poker table? Why don’t they come to my door every day to buy some magic beans? These cats ‘n kittens will buy almost anything. Take, for example, today’s extended rehabilitation of the unfortunate Marco Rubio, who went on TV without his stillsuit yesterday, but in whom Jonathan Martin sees the future Kwisatz Haderach anyway.

Love it!

Things In Politico That Make Me Want To Guzzle Antifreeze, Part The Infinity - Esquire http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/The_Man_From_Dune#ixzz2Knleso4a

343 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:47:49am

Rubio really is just another typical Republican. And honestly I am sick of him equating President Obama’s policies with Fidel Castro’s when he invokes his own parents’ story. And from what I understand the elder Rubios emigrated before Castro took power.

344 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:50:03am

re: #343 HappyWarrior

And his parents both benefit from programs that the GOP now wants to dismantle and otherwise end as we know it.

Rubio himself benefited from education programs that he’d now want to dismantle or otherwise reduce, ending that pathway to success for middle class Americans.

Pretty much, he’s found that ladder to success but is pulling it up behind him so no one else can follow.

345 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:50:56am

Shit the Constitution was written in the first place because the Articles of Confederation was too weak. The founders didn’t like the government being too big or more importantly too distant (see the British parliament) but they didn’t oppose a functioning government. But yeah let’s act like the Founders wanted us to have unregulated gun ownership and would think it would be liberty for a fraction of the people to own an overwhelming majority of the guns.

346 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:51:38am

re: #344 lawhawk

Pretty much, he’s found that ladder to success but is pulling it up behind him so no one else can follow.

Just like every other Republican. It’s “Fuck you, I got mine”, but in both English and Spanish.

347 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:52:21am

re: #344 lawhawk

And his parents both benefit from programs that the GOP now wants to dismantle and otherwise end as we know it.

Rubio himself benefited from education programs that he’d now want to dismantle or otherwise reduce, ending that pathway to success for middle class Americans.

Pretty much, he’s found that ladder to success but is pulling it up behind him so no one else can follow.

As I said, he’s typical. He and his have benefited from the same programs his party either wants to weaken or in some case dismantle. Rubio’s a bullshit artist.

348 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:53:22am

re: #346 Lidane

Just like every other Republican. It’s “Fuck you, I got mine”, but in both English and Spanish.

GOP minority outreach in 2013 ladies and gents. Sure, Marco Rubio has the same failed ideas and rhetoric of Mitt Romney but he’ll tell you it in English and Spanish. Isn’t that what you people want!

349 iossarian  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:54:15am

re: #348 HappyWarrior

+1 “you people” reference. Happy memories.

350 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:54:48am

Armed police storm house fearing owner had mortar after he posted picture of 6in-tall Action Man weapon on Facebook

Armed police who stormed to a house after reports of a mortar gun discovered it was an Action Man toy.

Police wielding submachine guns raced to the home of Ian Driscoll, 43, after he posted a new profile picture on Facebook.

Mr Driscoll’s picture showed an Action Man plastic figure and in the background was a toy mortar gun, around six inches tall.

The mortar gun was next to a TV remote control clearly showing its small size but someone who saw it contacted police.

Five officers, including two armed with submachine guns, then arrived at his home in Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire.

Mr Driscoll said after showing them the offending toy the police apologised and left - but still managed to ‘see the funny side’.

351 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:58:43am
352 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:59:21am

re: #351 Lidane

That is funny! I would bring these home.

353 Interesting Times  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:00:48am

re: #352 Amory Blaine

That is funny! I would bring these home.

Obama should have served some up to GOPers at the SOTU.

354 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:02:34am

Dumb tweet:

She’s six miles from the scene.

355 Big Steve  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:02:57am

re: #346 Lidane

Just like every other Republican…..

I am Republican and yes I feel I have worked hard to get what is mine but I don’t begrudge anyone else’s success either.

356 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:04:28am

re: #355 Big Steve

I am Republican and yes I feel I have worked hard to get what is mine but I don’t begrudge anyone else’s success either.

One documented exception….

Can you say it in Spanish?

357 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:06:16am
358 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:06:34am

re: #349 iossarian

+1 “you people” reference. Happy memories.

Good old Ann Romney.

359 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:07:10am

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

Armed police storm house fearing owner had mortar after he posted picture of 6in-tall Action Man weapon on Facebook

Holy crap. How stupid. Just wait and you’ll soon see a bunch of weasels calling to ban these action figures. Derp.

360 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:07:54am

What’s the Dorner fan-club status on Twitter? I’m afraid to look.

362 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:09:34am

re: #359 Gus

Holy crap. How stupid. Just wait and you’ll soon see a bunch of weasels calling to ban these action figures. Derp.

Next to be banned…Yosemite Sam cartoons.

363 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:09:51am

re: #355 Big Steve

I am Republican and yes I feel I have worked hard to get what is mine but I don’t begrudge anyone else’s success either.

Meanwhile, all these elected Republicans go out of their way to ensure that every avenue that led to their success — student loans, government programs, etc. — are denied to anyone else.

It’s hypocrisy of the highest order.

364 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:10:22am

re: #357 Lidane

Because a man who praises Jon Huntsman, George H.W and W. Bush in his writings is a progressive? And yes I know he praised Obama and I believe Clinton too but the idea of Dormer as a leftist or even progressive is laughable as fuck. And you know what even if he was, the idea that this “rproves” progressive violence is so laughable considering all the right wing nutjobs who have targeted people over the past few years. Not least of all Brevik, who many of them actually sympathize with.

365 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:11:55am

re: #298 sattv4u2

:)

False report on Feb 7 about Dorner being sited at a hotel in San Diego. Nothing with that story indicating that it was anything more than a false report; e.g. not another criminal/fugative mistakenly thought to be Dorner.

366 Big Steve  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:12:14am

re: #356 wrenchwench

Yo soy Republicano y sí siento que he trabajado mucho para conseguir lo mío, pero yo no envidio a nadie el éxito tampoco.

367 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:12:58am

re: #364 HappyWarrior

You’re trying to apply logic to Glenn Beck. Won’t work.

368 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:13:10am

re: #363 Lidane

Meanwhile, all these elected Republicans go out of their way to ensure that every avenue that led to their success — student loans, government programs, etc. — are denied to anyone else.

It’s hypocrisy of the highest order.

Yeah, and don’t you just love Rick Santorum, he of the BA, MA, and law degree putting down university level education? All of those schools were public ones as well. Really, it’s this that drives me nuts about elected Republicans. Many of them benefited directly from the same programs they want to weaken or destroy for people in my generation but they will tell you non stop about how student loans and stuff helped them out. Shit look at Paul Ryan the Ayn Rand fan who had his father’s social security benefits help pay for his college education. I don’t begrudge him at all for doing it but I do have a problem with the rank hypocrisy of it all.

369 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:13:23am

A BUNCH OF UNEMPLOYED, WELFARE MOOCHING, FOOD STAMP TAKERS.

370 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:15:29am

CATO fail: Ignores that the President mentioned border security and that the number of border security guards exceeds the 20,000 level he set. Reduces illegal crossing to lowest levels in 40 years.

371 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:16:35am

re: #366 Big Steve

Yo soy Republicano y sí siento que he trabajado mucho para conseguir lo mío, pero yo no envidio a nadie el éxito tampoco.

Not bad. Google Translate?

372 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:16:40am

re: #336 A Mom Anon

A little OT FYI:

Mice can do extraordinary damage in the engine compartment of your car. I had made an appointment to get my oil changed at the dealership this morning and on the way there smoke started rolling out from under the hood. Fortunately I was only about a mile away from the dealership,but by the time I got there, there was no coolant left in the car. The early damage assessment is as follows:
Coolant line-chewed,coolant tank-chewed,firewall-chewed,fuel line-almost chewed through,top of one of the struts(plastic cap part)-chewed,battery insulation-chewed,wiring harness-partially chewed. And that’s just what can be seen without taking more of it apart. State Farm says I’m covered, but I won’t know for sure til an adjuster looks at it. What’s not covered is a freaking rental car, so I am sans wheels for at least a week.

The shop supervisor told me that placing moth balls inside the engine compartment will keep them away and to place some in a dish under the engine on the garage floor. I am scared to know how much this is going to end up costing, the mechanic working on my car said he had one come in last winter with nearly 10K of rodent damage and insurance wouldn’t cover it.

I hate today.

Might need to borrow b sharp’s armed weasels.

373 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:17:33am

re: #362 NJDhockeyfan

Next to be banned…Yosemite Sam cartoons.

Wait? You mean they’re not banned already? I’m sure someone finds it offensive!

374 CuriousLurker  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:17:45am

Sorry for going OT, but this cracked me up so I made it into a Page: When Diplomats Go Wild: High-Five Causes Outrage in Iran, Germany

*facepalm*

375 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:17:59am

Police: Wife kills member of 1979 Final Four team

PHILADELPHIA (AP) - A member of the University of Pennsylvania’s 1979 Final Four team was fatally stabbed by his wife, who told police she had caught him looking at child pornography, according to court documents.

Matthew White was found stabbed in the neck around 12:45 p.m. Monday in bed at his home, police said, and was pronounced dead a short time later. An officer responding to the home for a report of a stabbing found White’s wife, Maria Rey Garcia-Pellon, as she pulled into the driveway, authorities said. As she was being taken into custody, according to a police affidavit, she said, “I caught him looking at pornography, young girls. I love kids. I had to do it.”

376 A Mom Anon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:18:06am

re: #369 Vicious Babushka

OK,I hear this number (40-60 million, depending on the wingnut) all the time from anti-choicers. Where is that statistic from? Do doctors report every abortion to some sort of data gathering body? Would that number include spontaneous abortions too?

377 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:18:29am

Oops. My bad. It’s reported by the Daily Mail. I better wait until MSNBC reports this.

//

378 Big Steve  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:18:33am

re: #371 wrenchwench

No…Hispanic manager working for me.

379 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:19:21am

re: #373 Gus

Wait? You mean they’re not banned already? I’m sure someone finds it offensive!

Is there anything in the world that doesn’t offend someone?

380 Amory Blaine  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:19:46am

Puppies and kitties.

381 A Mom Anon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:20:14am

re: #372 Feline Fearless Leader

Only if they don’t like the taste of various and sundry automotive pieces parts.

382 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:20:23am

re: #380 Amory Blaine

Puppies and kitties.

That’s offensive!
//

383 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:20:28am

re: #379 NJDhockeyfan

Is there anything in the world that doesn’t offend someone?

As longs as it meets a certain political criteria? Not much.

384 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:20:36am

re: #379 NJDhockeyfan

Is there anything in the world that doesn’t offend someone?

6 billion plus people. There’s bound to be something.Err what I mean is chances are with 6 billion plus people that someone’s going to find something to be offended over no matter how trivial it is.

385 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:20:55am

re: #370 lawhawk

CATO fail: Ignores that the President mentioned border security and that the number of border security guards exceeds the 20,000 level he set. Reduces illegal crossing to lowest levels in 40 years.

And I don’t think 60,000 dead across the border is a security threat to the US. Even if it is, as some say, more like 80,000. CATO’s problem with it is probably the billions we’re spending there to upgrade Mexico’s justice system and help them fight the cartels.

But CATO probably agrees with me that the drug was is stupid.

386 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:21:57am

re: #381 A Mom Anon

Only if they don’t like the taste of various and sundry automotive pieces parts.

Weasel: Nice garage you got here. Pity if something were to happen to it, if you know what I mean.

387 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:22:05am

re: #385 wrenchwench

And I don’t think 60,000 dead across the border is a security threat to the US. Even if it is, as some say, more like 80,000. CATO’s problem with it is probably the billions we’re spending there to upgrade Mexico’s justice system and help them fight the cartels.

But CATO probably agrees with me that the drug was is stupid.

They do agree about the drug war being stupid part.

388 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:23:02am

re: #387 HappyWarrior

They do agree about the drug war being stupid part.

Yeah, it’s the one thing I can’t argue with libertarians about.

389 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:23:03am

re: #374 CuriousLurker

Sorry for going OT, but this cracked me up so I made it into a Page: When Diplomats Go Wild: High-Five Causes Outrage in Iran, Germany

*facepalm*

I took the FSOE for that shit? I mean granted I took the American one obviously and not the Iranian or German one but really?

390 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:23:17am

re: #376 A Mom Anon

OK,I hear this number (40-60 million, depending on the wingnut) all the time from anti-choicers. Where is that statistic from? Do doctors report every abortion to some sort of data gathering body? Would that number include spontaneous abortions too?

Wingnuts have a whole bunch of “numbers” that they accept on faith, such as: “11,629 people added to Food Stamps EVERY SINGLE DAY.” This just seemed so weirdly specific that I Googled it and one of the first sites to come up was Stormfront.

391 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:23:42am

re: #388 wrenchwench

Yeah, it’s the one thing I can’t argue with libertarians about.

Same. The fun part about dealing with libertarians is they make me feel like a pragmatist when I am still an idealist at heart.

392 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:24:46am

re: #370 lawhawk

CATO fail: Ignores that the President mentioned border security and that the number of border security guards exceeds the 20,000 level he set. Reduces illegal crossing to lowest levels in 40 years.

No mention of ____________________ .

Outrage!

393 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:25:13am

re: #373 Gus

Wait? You mean they’re not banned already? I’m sure someone finds it offensive!

Sadly he’s been toned down and last I saw he rarely ever has his guns on him. It’s also rare to see a road runner/Wile E. Coyote cartoon given how “violent” they are. The only way to get good Looney Toons cartoons anymore is to buy the collections.

394 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:25:44am

CATO’s shocked that a president didn’t mention the Drug War. Again libertarians have that gift of making me feel pragmatic. I hate the Drug War too but I’m realistic.

395 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:26:20am

re: #393 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Sadly he’s been toned down and last I saw he rarely ever has his guns on him. It’s also rare to see a road runner/Wile E. Coyote cartoon given how “violent” they are. The only way to get good Looney Toons cartoons anymore is to buy the collections.

Of course. Cartoons cause gun violence! Derp.

396 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:27:45am

re: #393 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Sadly he’s been toned down and last I saw he rarely ever has his guns on him. It’s also rare to see a road runner/Wile E. Coyote cartoon given how “violent” they are. The only way to get good Looney Toons cartoons anymore is to buy the collections.

We also have YouTube.

Youtube Video
397 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:28:11am

re: #392 Gus

No mention of ____________________ .

Outrage!

398 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:28:17am

re: #393 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Sadly he’s been toned down and last I saw he rarely ever has his guns on him. It’s also rare to see a road runner/Wile E. Coyote cartoon given how “violent” they are. The only way to get good Looney Toons cartoons anymore is to buy the collections.

Yea, they censored everything after making the connection between Bugs Bunny and consumption of sleeping pills. As well as the sudden increase in hunting accidents on the day that rabbit season turned into duck season without any overlap.
;)

399 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:28:40am

re: #393 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Sadly he’s been toned down and last I saw he rarely ever has his guns on him. It’s also rare to see a road runner/Wile E. Coyote cartoon given how “violent” they are. The only way to get good Looney Toons cartoons anymore is to buy the collections.

All the good ones were made before 1955 anyway. Are any of those still broadcast on TV?

400 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:28:51am

Damn what is Loony Toons without Yosemite Sam? I always liked Daffy. He’s a stubborn sob which made him and me one and the same.

401 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:28:55am
402 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:30:04am

re: #397 Vicious Babushka

And if he had mentioned him, people like this guy would be accusing POTUS of “exploiting Kyle’s death for political reasons.” Really, it’s a State of the Union address, not “name everything that’s happened in the past 2 months” speech.

403 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:32:10am

Image: 560106_612880632070785_2082949609_n.jpg

404 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:33:40am

Imagine if the Japanese didn’t attack Pearl Harbor?

405 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:34:31am

re: #397 Vicious Babushka

If they had, then they would have complained that he was busy making his death a political one - and that wasn’t right.

406 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:36:20am

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

Admit it…you only read that paper for the pics of hot asses.

Image: article-2239722-163FAE1F000005DC-975_634x610.jpg

Story here:

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

407 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:36:44am

re: #404 Gus

Imagine if the Japanese didn’t attack Pearl Harbor?

Shit even then. It arguably took Pearl Harbor and Hitler stupidly declaring war on the US following our declaration of war on Japan.

408 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:38:02am

Another sign that I’m getting older — Henry Rollins is 52 today:

409 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 10:42:00am

re: #406 darthstar

Admit it…you only read that paper for the pics of hot asses.

Image: article-2239722-163FAE1F000005DC-975_634x610.jpg

Story here:

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

Yeah, I’m sure the Huffington Post didn’t cover that.

410 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 11:00:04am

re: #406 darthstar

Admit it…you only read that paper for the pics of hot asses.

Image: article-2239722-163FAE1F000005DC-975_634x610.jpg

Story here:

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

Gaaaaa!

411 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 11:57:35am

re: #373 Gus

Wait? You mean they’re not banned already? I’m sure someone finds it offensive!

Almost nothing in the US is banned for being offensive. Except various forms of porn, even bafflingly including nudity on TV.

412 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:13:57pm

re: #269 Vicious Babushka

Last night it was reported on CNN that “suspect attempted to leave the cabin and was driven back inside” (by hail of bullets). Since media was not allowed anywhere near the cabin, they were totally relying on what they were told by LE sources.

There were conflicting reports, such as “Suspect fired over 500 rounds” and “ammo dump ignited by fire” when it was impossible for Dorner to have carried that much ammo around while he was running through the woods.

An ammo can (840 rounds) of 5.56 X 45 weighs 29.5 lbs

413 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:25:53pm

re: #251 Political Atheist

Seems to me that it’s fair to think the police started the fire, given the tear gas grenades. Which of course is supposed to drive a suspect out making a fire a moot point. Unless that thing lands in a bathtub, it will probably start a fire. Conspiracy? Laughable. A gunman that dangerous is going to get maximum force for safety of everyone around. I guess this tape will so into the same crappy blogs that already have the Davidian video and bs. Ruby Ridge etc.

During the Miami riots, the Miami PD started a lot of the fires which burned out businesses in the riot area, by throwing tear gas grenades into the buildings.

How do I know this?

Because I knew them and they bragged about doing it.

It was, “hey, look! These things get so hot they will start a fire.”

So then they drove around throwing tear gas canisters into buildings in areas where no riot action was taking place for amusement. Cop humor, because they knew that the rioters would get blamed for all the fires.


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