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LA Times: Incendiary Tear Gas Reportedly Used in Dorner Standoff

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The LA Times has new details on the use of incendiary tear gas devices in the standoff with Christopher Dorner, leading to the fire that destroyed the cabin where he was holed up: Dorner Manhunt: Incendiary Tear Gas Reportedly Used on Cabin.

Faced with regular barrages of gunfire, officers confronting suspected killer Christopher Dorner lobbed incendiary tear gas into the cabin where Dorner allegedly was holed up, said law enforcement officials with knowledge of the situation.

The cabin caught on fire and authorities believe Dorner was burned inside. A body was discovered but authorities have not confirmed it was Dorner. …

SWAT officers surrounding the cabin were under a “constant barrage of gunfire,” one source said. “He put himself in that position. There weren’t a lot of options.”

Hoping to end the standoff, law enforcement authorities first lobbed “traditional” tear gas into the cabin. When that did not work, they opted to use CS gas canisters, which are known in law enforcement parlance as incendiary tear gas. These canisters have significantly more chance of starting a fire. This gas can cause humans to have burning eyes and start to feel as if they are being starved for oxygen. It is often used to drive barricaded individuals out.

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444 comments

1 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 12:57:37pm

I’ll post it here, too.

It should be emphasized that the CS gas is produced in a combustion reaction within the grenade. That’s how you make it; there isn’t a little tank of gas inside or something. I do not believe there is such a thing as a non-incendiary CS grenade. As the gas is objectively more potent in its respiratory effects, it is not a foregone conclusion that the grenades were tossed because of their frequent incendiary side-effect.

In fact, this seems like an entirely likely possibility. They’re ‘burners’ in the vernacular because they make things burn and burning stuff is kinda cool, but they were thrown because they are more chemically potent.

Smoke grenades, too, are “incendiary” in a sense. They generate their smoke by combustion, because storing the reagents as solids is much more volumetrically efficient than storing gas. Because gas is low-density. Duh.

It’s a tricky phrasing challenge, because in traditional use incendiary devices are designed explicitly to cause things to burn. It is not a side effect.

2 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:04:00pm

re: #1 erik_t

Yeah. Basically, using these grenades is the next escalation in force and risk by the cops, after traditional tear gas. It ups the effects, ups the risk of fire. The latter could be something that’s beneficial— to me, I still have no problem with just lighting the damn building on fire to get him to come out— or it could be a risk that’s considered and decided to be acceptable in the circumstances.

I see nothing wrong with the police’s actions at first look, I hope that excitement over the radio won’t be really held against them, and I don’t think their intention was to kill him— it was to kill him if he didn’t surrender, and I think that’s what happened.

This hasn’t been a great thing for law enforcement— we are very lucky that nobody died in the two shootings from the police. But anyone who thinks that all cops act or think the same, and that cops aren’t into busting big criminals but just want to execute them— come on. Yeah, there are some cops that’d shoot a guy like this on sight, but I don’t think there are very many at all that, presenting with someone surrendering, would just execute them.

3 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:06:22pm

I remember being in the “Gas Chamber” during Army BCT. We were exposed to CS gas as part of our instruction on the use of our gas masks. Inside the chamber they had a canister over a burner and the heated item in the canister gave off the gas. To produce the CS gas component they had to heat whatever was in the can on the table in the middle of the room.

The gas did not necessarily burn, it stung like a bitch, it made your eyes roll into your head and snot, sweat and spit come out of just about everywhere. Some people vomited as a result of it and I can see how it was incapacitating when used in a tight spot.

Bottom line, if they were talking about using a “burner” that would be a CS gas grenade that most likely would be dispersed via heating and therefore an incendiary device would be part of the grenade.

4 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:09:06pm

re: #2 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I agree - I don’t have a problem with this, either. If the situation developed as stated in the excerpt above, it seems like a completely appropriate escalation of force.

I’m just kind of puzzled why some people seem to be so hell-bent on denying that the police caused the fire.

5 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:09:12pm

Nontroversey.

Cops used standard tactics for the circumstance. They had all the less dangerous options removed by Dorner himself.

6 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:12:00pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

I agree - I don’t have a problem with this, either. If the situation developed as stated in the excerpt above, it seems like a completely appropriate escalation of force.

I’m just kind of puzzled why some people seem to be so hell-bent on denying that the police caused the fire.

Because so many want to turn that simple incendiary gas hardware fact into a “deliberately burned him down” instead of what it was. An attempt to get him to surrender. Or force him from the cabin. That “deliberate’ is just a damn lie.

7 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:12:16pm

Hello all!

HOw is the day going?

8 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:12:50pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

I’m just kind of puzzled why some people seem to be so hell-bent on denying that the police caused the fire.

I see three possibilities that absolutely cannot and should not be binned into two phrases.

1) The police used CS gas grenades without knowing that fire was a likely, or at least plausible, result
2) The police used CS gas grenades in the knowledge that fire was a likely, or plausible, result, but they used them because the resultant gas is more potent at disabling people
3) The police used CS gas grenades because they knew fire was a likely, or plausible, result. The resultant gas was secondary.

I do not have a personal problem with either (2) or (3). I do have a problem deciding that we know whether it was (2) and (3), based on the evidence currently available.

/edit for attempted clarity

9 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:12:55pm

re: #1 erik_t

I’ll post it here, too.

Me too


They’re ‘burners’ in the vernacular because they make things burn and burning stuff is kinda cool, but they were thrown because they are more chemically potent.

From Charles link

This gas can cause humans to have burning eyes and start to feel as if they are being starved for oxygen.

In other words,, “I feel as if my lungs are burning”

10 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:13:05pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

I’m just kind of puzzled why some people seem to be so hell-bent on denying that the police caused the fire.

There are people asserting that the police set the fire in order to kill him, and were never intending to take him in alive. That’s as much of a conspiracy theory as there is.

11 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:13:05pm

FBI admits use of incendiary grenades at Waco

The source of the reports on the use of pyrotechnic grenades was the Public Safety Commission Chairman James B. Francis. “There are written reports by Rangers,” Francis told the press, “there is photographic evidence, there is physical evidence, all three of which are problematic” for the federal government’s claim that no grenades were used. A former senior FBI official, Danny Coulson, confirmed to the Dallas Morning News that he had recently learned that two military-type M-651 CS tear gas grenades had been fired on the day of the massacre.

12 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:13:52pm

Thermite paint!

13 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:14:02pm

re: #9 sattv4u2

Um, no. They’re called “burners” because it’s well-known that they can start a fire. Direct quote from police officer:

Friday afternoon, Modesto police officer Chris Adams insisted that SWAT teams did nothing that would have started the blaze.

He said there are two types of tear gas cannisters police use. One is an incendiary cannister called a “burner,” which can start a fire, Adams said. The department doesn’t deploy burners; it only uses nonincendiary cannisters.

14 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:14:13pm

re: #3 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I remember being in the “Gas Chamber” during Army BCT. We were exposed to CS gas as part of our instruction on the use of our gas masks. Inside the chamber they had a canister over a burner and the heated item in the canister gave off the gas. To produce the CS gas component they had to heat whatever was in the can on the table in the middle of the room.

The gas did not necessarily burn, it stung like a bitch, it made your eyes roll into your head and snot, sweat and spit come out of just about everywhere. Some people vomited as a result of it and I can see how it was incapacitating when used in a tight spot.

Bottom line, if they were talking about using a “burner” that would be a CS gas grenade that most likely would be dispersed via heating and therefore an incendiary device would be part of the grenade.

I remember doing that. We had to say our name, rank, and serial number before we were allowed to put the gas mask on. That shit burned.

15 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:14:45pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

That’s cute, Killgore.

Do you have a source for your claim that the specifically burn-safe grenades are called burners yet?

I’m completely willing to believe that it’s true— it makes sense to me that something called a burn-safe might ironically be called a burner— but I’d just like to know where you got it from.

16 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:16:12pm

re: #14 NJDhockeyfan

Yeah we went in with the masks on and then had to take them off while holding our breath, re-sealing them and clearing them, then take them off and breathe. Wish someone had warned us not to shave that day. To me it was more of a stinging sensation than a burning one.

17 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:16:57pm

re: #13 Charles Johnson

Um, no. They’re called “burners” because it’s well-known that they can start a fire. Direct quote from police officer:

Key word
CAN start

Not ALWAYS start, or MOSTLY start, or even USUALLY start

CAN!

18 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:19:17pm

For the record I wouldn’t be surprised if they did use “burners”, not to start the fire on purpose but to smoke the guy out with a stronger gas canister. If the canister caused the fire, then shit happens to some extent.

Now if they used the “burners” to intentionally start a fire and burn the guy out, that’s another story. While I wouldn’t put it past the LAPD (sorry no love for them whatsoever) I don’t believe the San Bernardino sheriffs would do something like that with that intent.

19 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:20:37pm

re: #16 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Yeah we went in with the masks on and then had to take them off while holding our breath, re-sealing them and clearing them, then take them off and breathe. Wish someone had warned us not to shave that day. To me it was more of a stinging sensation than a burning one.

They didn’t require us to breathe but it was hard not to. I was hacking and coughing for 10 minutes while my eyes burned.

20 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:20:56pm

re: #18 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I really don’t have a problem with them intentionally starting a fire to drive him out. Not if it’s in a controlled area.

21 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:21:20pm

re: #5 Political Atheist

Nontroversey.

Cops used standard tactics for the circumstance. They had all the less dangerous options removed by Dorner himself.

Agreed.

Dorner made it clear that there were only two options — either he was going to kill everyone who he believed wronged him, or he was going to die trying. The rest is details. The police were faced with a terrible situation and did what they had to do.

Yes. There are some trigger happy morons that need to be disciplined for shooting at random people, and for generally being idiots, and the LAPD has a lot of things to answer for, but come the fuck on. If we start down the road of ZOMG THEY DELIBERATELY BURNED HIM ALIVE then that makes Dorner a martyr to The Man instead of the coward and murderer that he was.

22 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:21:53pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Thermite paint!

I prefer Behrs or Sherman Williams

((I hate when my paint brush catches fire right in the middle of doing the trim))

23 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:23:24pm

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

Oh they made us breathe and made sure we did breathe before we left the chamber. Had one guy in our platoon that was somehow completely immune to the effects of it. They made him walk around the room, say the pledge of allegiance and just about everything else, no effect. He thought it might be due to working in a paint factory before joining the military.

24 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:23:57pm

re: #22 sattv4u2

I prefer Behrs or Sherman Williams

((I hate when my paint brush catches fire right in the middle of doing the trim))

Tinfoil hats make great fire protection.

25 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:24:03pm

re: #18 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

For the record I wouldn’t be surprised if they did use “burners”, not to start the fire on purpose but to smoke the guy out with a stronger gas canister. If the canister caused the fire, then shit happens to some extent.

Now if they used the “burners” to intentionally start a fire and burn the guy out, that’s another story. While I wouldn’t put it past the LAPD (sorry no love for them whatsoever) I don’t believe the San Bernardino sheriffs would do something like that with that intent.

I doubt it too. However, that audio recording of someone shouting “Burn this motherfucker down!” over the police scanner doesn’t look good.

26 simoom  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:24:05pm

Reid’s just now filing for cloture on Hagel’s nomination — it will be interesting to see if the GOP successfully filibusters, though they’re claiming it’s not a true filibuster since they only want to delay for a time, or something.

[Link: www.c-span.org…]




27 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:24:18pm

I’m glad this has been cleared up but I doubt this is going stop the conspiracy kooks to continue to make hay about it.

28 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:24:59pm

re: #26 simoom

Heh. Filibuster, of course, didn’t originally intend to stop votes, it intended to stop votes until debate. So what they really mean is that this is a real filibuster, and all their other filibusters are fraudulent usage of it to stop legislation.

29 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:25:33pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Tinfoil hats make great fire protection.

Hey, you must have missed this:

Do you have a source for your claim that the specifically burn-safe grenades are called burners yet?

I’m completely willing to believe that it’s true— it makes sense to me that something called a burn-safe might ironically be called a burner— but I’d just like to know where you got it from.

30 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:25:43pm

re: #13 Charles Johnson

Um, no. They’re called “burners” because it’s well-known that they can start a fire. Direct quote from police officer:

I have to disagree with you. How or why it is named a ‘burner’ was not explained in that quote. The officer was explaining that they did not do anything that could start a fire, so his focus was on the ability to start fires when he mentioned the ‘burner’. His comments say they don’t use it because it can start a fire but that may or may not be linked to why it was named ‘burner’. Jumping to conclusions about why they used the ‘burners’ simply isn’t supported by what the officer said.

A burner’s primary purpose is to force people out of an area. It does that by causing a chemical reaction with the eyes and respiratory system that results in a burning sensation.

The fact it can cause fires would be a generally undesirable side effect.

31 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:25:54pm

re: #27 NJDhockeyfan

I’m glad this has been cleared up but I doubt this is going stop the conspiracy kooks to continue to make hay about it.

Millions of people saw planes fly into the World Trade Center and there are still a bunch of dickless wonders who think that either it was fake or that the government did it.

Conspiracies will always exist because there are a lot of complete fucking morons in the world.

32 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:26:02pm

re: #20 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I really don’t have a problem with them intentionally starting a fire to drive him out. Not if it’s in a controlled area.

I have a problem with it when the home belongs to someone else and I am not too keen on the idea of cops setting fire to a structure in order to make someone get out of it when there’s the distinct possibility they will stay inside and just let themselves be burned alive. That is negligence IMO. Maybe not criminal but it is negligent.

33 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:26:11pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Tinfoil hats make great fire protection.

I prefer asbestos, although those aren’t any better for the lungs than the burner grenades are!!!
/

34 RadicalModerate  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:26:12pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

FBI admits use of incendiary grenades at Waco

The World Socialist Web Site as a source? Think you might want to find someone who is a bit less slanted in their coverage?

There’s a whole article devoted to the Branch Davidian standoff/siege on Wikipedia, with links to far more credible sites regarding what happened on April 19, 1993.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

35 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:26:48pm

re: #17 sattv4u2

Key word
CAN start

Not ALWAYS start, or MOSTLY start, or even USUALLY start

CAN!

Yes. It’s an unfortunate side effect of how it works.

36 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:26:50pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Thermite paint!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Also the fun Mythbusters episode with model Hindenburgs and playing with hydrogen and aluminum powder doping compounds.

37 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:27:23pm

re: #30 b_sharp

It could even be called a burner because it sometimes starts fires— but that that’s not why it’s used, it’s used because it’s far more potent.

38 klys  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:27:38pm

re: #36 Feline Fearless Leader

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Also the fun Mythbusters episode with model Hindenburgs and playing with hydrogen and aluminum powder doping compounds.

Thermite is fascinating stuff. I’ve watched it burn underwater. So cool.

39 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:28:05pm

re: #38 klys

Thermite is fascinating stuff. I’ve watched it burn underwater. So cool.

you are such a science geek!

It’s cool.

40 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:28:22pm

re: #22 sattv4u2

I prefer Behrs or Sherman Williams

((I hate when my paint brush catches fire right in the middle of doing the trim))

I have the makings of thermite here, and intend on using them but I haven’t yet.

41 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:28:32pm
42 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:28:51pm

re: #38 klys

Thermite is fascinating stuff. I’ve watched it burn underwater. So cool.

damn I’m tired

At 1st I thought you typed “I’ve watched it burn underWEAR!!”

And I was gonna ask,, yours?!?!?
/

43 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:29:26pm

re: #42 sattv4u2

damn I’m tired

At 1st I thought you typed “I’ve watched it burn underWEAR!!”

And I was gonna ask,, yours?!?!?
/

tired or just the way your mind works?

:0

44 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:29:56pm

re: #40 b_sharp

I have the makings of thermite here, and intend on using them but I haven’t yet.

We pay a guy to come treat our house against thermites every month
//

45 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:30:08pm

re: #43 FemNaziBitch

tired or just the way your mind works?

:0

yes

46 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:30:28pm

re: #26 simoom

Yes, but has Hagel answered the important issues yet?

47 RadicalModerate  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:30:32pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

I doubt it too. However, that audio recording of someone shouting “Burn this motherfucker down!” over the police scanner doesn’t look good.

Listening to that disturbed the hell out of me. This wasn’t a group of officers who simply wanted to bring the standoff to an end, there was a definite bloodlust present in those individuals’ shouts.

48 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:30:47pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

I doubt it too. However, that audio recording of someone shouting “Burn this motherfucker down!” over the police scanner doesn’t look good.

yeah, that doesn’t sound good and there is the possibility that it could have been intentional. Then they forced the news helicopters to move a long way away from the cabin (understandable to an extent) which prevented anyone from seeing anything.

I’ll give the cops the benefit of the doubt unless some evidence emerges to show they intentionally burned the place down with intent to kill dorner.

49 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:31:04pm

re: #33 sattv4u2

I prefer asbestos, although those aren’t any better for the lungs than the burner grenades are!!!
/

You don’t want anything to burn? Get rid of all that unstable Oxygen.

50 Mattand  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:31:35pm

re: #34 RadicalModerate

The World Socialist Web Site as a source? Think you might want to find someone who is a bit less slanted in their coverage?

There’s a whole article devoted to the Branch Davidian standoff/siege on Wikipedia, with links to far more credible sites regarding what happened on April 19, 1993.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Anyone else think it’s odd (or possibly ironic) that KT, sworn foe of OWS, is citing a socialist website as proof of law enforcement terminology?

51 Jolo5309  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:31:46pm

re: #42 sattv4u2

damn I’m tired

At 1st I thought you typed “I’ve watched it burn underWEAR!!”

And I was gonna ask,, yours?!?!?
/

Only when he wears “Hot Pants”

52 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:31:48pm

re: #37 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It could even be called a burner because it sometimes starts fires— but that that’s not why it’s used, it’s used because it’s far more potent.

Absolutely.

53 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:31:49pm

re: #49 b_sharp

You don’t want anything to burn? Get rid of all that unstable Oxygen.

I blame evolution and blue-green algae.
/

54 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:32:05pm

re: #47 RadicalModerate

Listening to that disturbed the hell out of me. This wasn’t a group of officers who simply wanted to bring the standoff to an end, there was a definite bloodlust present in those individuals’ shouts.

To be fair, two of their fellow officers had just been shot by Dorner. One of those officers died.

Yeah, I’d be a bit emotional at that point too.

55 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:32:33pm

re: #47 RadicalModerate

Listening to that disturbed the hell out of me. This wasn’t a group of officers who simply wanted to bring the standoff to an end, there was a definite bloodlust present in those individuals’ shouts.

Dorner shooting that deputy to death just hours earlier was a contributing factor. Just sayin’.

56 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:32:34pm

re: #43 FemNaziBitch

tired or just the way your mind works?

:0

Just the way his mind works.

57 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:32:38pm

re: #31 Lidane

Millions of people saw planes fly into the World Trade Center and there are still a bunch of dickless wonders who think that either it was fake or that the government did it.

Conspiracies will always exist because there are a lot of complete fucking morons in the world.

They’ve been around as long as I can remember. My favorite…the Apollo 11 moon landing was faked!

58 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:33:11pm

re: #54 Lidane

To be fair, two of their fellow officers had just been shot by Dorner. One of those officers died.

Yeah, I’d be a bit emotional at that point too.

Damn, why do we keep posting the same thing at the same time? Something weird is going on here.

59 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:33:35pm

re: #57 NJDhockeyfan

They’ve been around as long as I can remember. My favorite…the Apollo 11 moon landing was faked!

Grassy knoll!

60 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:33:45pm

re: #50 Mattand

Anyone else think it’s odd (or possibly ironic) that KT, sworn foe of OWS, is citing a socialist website as proof of law enforcement terminology?

It’s not odd, he was passive-aggressively saying that Charles, and everyone else who’s saying that these gas grenades might have started the fire, are equivalent to the WACO truthers who think in that (entirely different circumstance) the FBI started the fires.

When interpreting Killgore, always remember to think “What is the most dickish possible way he could have meant this?”

61 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:34:05pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

I doubt it too. However, that audio recording of someone shouting “Burn this motherfucker down!” over the police scanner doesn’t look good.

It’s exploitable by the critics. But so what?
What should we really expect from a cop getting shot at and who knows how deadly Dorner was? I mean some people just do not understand reality from ideals. In a perfect world the cops would not get emotional. In a perfect world we would not need people with guns to protect us ordinary people.

In this instance I have no patience for those who will lie and exploit the reality to make LAPD look like goons. Using tear gas is better than the next level up of violence. I suppose if Dorner had been crushed by the walls when the Bearcat hit them we would have the same attitude. A deliberate killing as a de facto accusation against the police.

62 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:34:12pm

re: #59 Vicious Babushka

Grassy knoll!

You should shave!

63 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:34:38pm

Instead of aging the headline/link down the page, looks like Drudge completely removed the headline I referred to here (re: foodstamps under Obama):

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Blah

64 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:34:52pm

re: #50 Mattand

Anyone else think it’s odd (or possibly ironic) that KT, sworn foe of OWS, is citing a socialist website as proof of law enforcement terminology?

That’s because other loons have used the same “incendiary device” claims to support their conspiracy theories in the past. It’s nonsense.

65 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:35:11pm

re: #53 Feline Fearless Leader

I blame evolution and blue-green algae.
/

Shouldn’t we all.

We need an anti-protist protest.

66 CuriousLurker  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:35:13pm

re: #38 klys

Thermite is fascinating stuff. I’ve watched it burn underwater. So cool.

Whoa… O_o… YouTube search results for: thermite underwater

67 Mattand  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:35:33pm

re: #48 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

yeah, that doesn’t sound good and there is the possibility that it could have been intentional. Then they forced the news helicopters to move a long way away from the cabin (understandable to an extent) which prevented anyone from seeing anything.

I’ll give the cops the benefit of the doubt unless some evidence emerges to show they intentionally burned the place down with intent to kill dorner.

Brings back memories of the MOVE stand off in Philly in 1985. The police, who rank up there with the LAPD in race relations, dropped an incinderay device on MOVE’s row house.

Intended to smoke them out, they wound up burning down a whole city block and killing most of the MOVE members in the process.

In Philly PD’s defense, it was similar to the Dorner situation. This group had another stand off with the cops in ‘78, and wound up killing two cops and a fireman in the process.

Bad situation all around, driven by a heavily armed “back to nature” group who lived in the 5th biggest city in the country.

68 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:35:37pm

re: #65 b_sharp

Shouldn’t we all.

We need an anti-protist protest.

by protestants

69 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:35:56pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

That’s because other loons have used the same “incendiary device” claims to support their conspiracy theories in the past. It’s nonsense.

Do you really not grasp that accusing the FBI of deliberately burning the Branch Davidian compound— with women and children inside— is entirely different from saying that the cops might have set a building on fire, or accepted a risk of the building being set on fire, to drive out a single totally fucking insane gunman?

Can you honestly not grasp the difference there?

70 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:36:05pm

Can I puke yet?

71 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:36:07pm

re: #57 NJDhockeyfan

They’ve been around as long as I can remember. My favorite…the Apollo 11 moon landing was faked!

The moon is a fake.

It’s nothing but Cheddar.

72 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:36:28pm

re: #58 Vicious Babushka

Damn, why do we keep posting the same thing at the same time? Something weird is going on here.

Yes you are.

73 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:36:33pm

re: #61 Political Atheist

In this instance I have no patience for those who will lie and exploit the reality to make LAPD look like goons.

The LAPD does a good enough job of it themselves.

74 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:37:00pm

re: #71 b_sharp

The moon is a fake.

It’s nothing but Cheddar.

Turtles all the way down!

75 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:37:33pm

re: #66 CuriousLurker

Whoa… O_o… YouTube search results for: thermite underwater

I read that as “thermite underwear”. Yowza.

76 Targetpractice  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:37:33pm

re: #54 Lidane

To be fair, two of their fellow officers had just been shot by Dorner. One of those officers died.

Yeah, I’d be a bit emotional at that point too.

Yet at the same time, we expect law enforcement officers to be professional even under high stress and emotional situations, putting anger and hatred aside to abide by the letter of the law. Right now, the situation wouldn’t be so inflammatory (no pun intended) if the cops hadn’t spent previous days turning two totally unrelated trucks into swiss cheese.

77 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:37:51pm

re: #66 CuriousLurker

Whoa… O_o… YouTube search results for: thermite underwater

that first video looks like the stuff old school sparklers were made of.

78 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:38:17pm

re: #70 FemNaziBitch

Can I puke yet?

[Embedded content]

For both of us, please.

79 CuriousLurker  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:38:19pm

re: #75 geoffm33

I read that as “thermite underwear”. Yowza.

LOL, ouch!

80 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:38:26pm

re: #75 geoffm33

I read that as “thermite underwear”. Yowza.

see #42

81 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:38:50pm

re: #79 CuriousLurker

LOL, ouch!

see #42

82 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:39:06pm

re: #30 b_sharp

I have to disagree with you. How or why it is named a ‘burner’ was not explained in that quote.

It seems really clear to me that the article says “burner” is used to distinguish between a device that can cause fires, and one that is less likely to do so:

One is an incendiary cannister called a “burner,” which can start a fire, Adams said. The department doesn’t deploy burners; it only uses nonincendiary cannisters.

The second sentence clearly distinguishes between “burners” and non-incendiary devices.

83 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:39:26pm

re: #70 FemNaziBitch

Can I puke yet?

[Embedded content]

re: #78 b_sharp

For both of us, please.

Chunks or pure liquid?

84 freetoken  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:39:42pm

Speaking of fake, here is a good take on the release today of the supposed “bigfoot” DNA story:


Like OMG! Bigfoot DNA paper is published!


Hehehehe… Ketchum starts up a new “science journal” just to get her paper “published”.

It fooled the AAAS pr portal EurekAlert for a few hours, until someone noticed something and pulled the EurekAlert entry.

85 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:39:44pm

OMG! tomorrow is Valentine’s Day.

I haven’t gotten my husband anything …

86 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:40:14pm

re: #82 Charles Johnson

It seems really clear to me that the article says “burner” is used to distinguish between a device that can cause fires, and one that is less likely to do so:

One is an incendiary cannister called a “burner,” which can start a fire, Adams said. The department doesn’t deploy burners; it only uses nonincendiary cannisters.

The second sentence clearly distinguishes between “burners” and non-incendiary devices.

And again

“burners” because of the affect on the eyes and lungs

87 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:40:19pm

re: #83 sattv4u2

re: #78 b_sharp

Chunks or pure liquid?

Which is more likely to catch on fire?

88 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:40:31pm

re: #85 FemNaziBitch

OMG! tomorrow is Valentine’s Day.

I haven’t gotten my husband anything …

Get him a girlfriend!

89 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:40:53pm

re: #88 sattv4u2

Get him a girlfriend!

You are so bad!

90 CuriousLurker  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:41:18pm

re: #83 sattv4u2

Chunks or pure liquid?

Aaaarrggggh—brain bleach, stat!

91 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:41:36pm

re: #66 CuriousLurker

Whoa… O_o… YouTube search results for: thermite underwater

I shot an aerial tube firework shell into a wave one night at the beach. It exploded when the wave curled over and looked amazing in the dark.

92 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:41:49pm

re: #67 Mattand

Actually, the Philly PD didn’t just drop tear gas or smoke grenades, but actual explosives.

93 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:41:57pm

re: #87 FemNaziBitch

Which is more likely to catch on fire?

Depends

Chunks of creosote fire logs or pure liquid gasoline

94 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:42:06pm

I’m confused on this whole Dorner thing. I haven’t followed it as closely as you-all.

What is the difference is the cops inadvertently started the fire? Insurance/Liability reasons are all I can thing of that would be affected.

95 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:42:07pm

re: #80 sattv4u2

see #42

LOL, and D’oh!

96 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:42:59pm

re: #85 FemNaziBitch

OMG! tomorrow is Valentine’s Day.

I haven’t gotten my husband anything …

Buy yourself something expensive for him to give you and charge it to his credit card.

97 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:43:13pm

re: #85 FemNaziBitch

OMG! tomorrow is Valentine’s Day.

I haven’t gotten my husband anything …

Buy yourself a really nice day spa package then tell him your gift is a day where he can lay around on the couch. Hehe.

98 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:43:56pm

re: #82 Charles Johnson

It seems really clear to me that the article says “burner” is used to distinguish between a device that can cause fires, and one that is less likely to do so:

The second sentence clearly distinguishes between “burners” and non-incendiary devices.

I guess we wait to find out.

99 geoffm33  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:44:00pm

re: #85 FemNaziBitch

OMG! tomorrow is Valentine’s Day.

I haven’t gotten my husband anything …

My wife bought herself earrings, said I can give them to her. Then she had to get to a conference across town in the blizzard aftermath so she went via Uber in an SUV. Due to their surge pricing (high demand) it ended up costing $90. She said I can give her that too!

100 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:44:01pm

re: #86 sattv4u2

And again

“burners” because of the affect on the eyes and lungs

That is not what the Modesto police officer said. Repeating it will not make it true.

101 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:44:02pm

The Whacko™ of the gunz nutz group have Ted Nugent and Steven Seagal as their spokespeople. What percentage of voters even know who these guys are?

102 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:44:21pm

re: #83 sattv4u2

re: #78 b_sharp

Chunks or pure liquid?

If you’re going, go all out.

103 klys  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:44:29pm

re: #39 FemNaziBitch

you are such a science geek!

It’s cool.

More fun with science: the Mythbusters episode where they deal with the sawdust cannon and upgrade to coffee creamer is a beautiful example of the effect of surface area on the speed of an oxidation reaction (e.g., combustion).

I have seen something similar done in person but not on that scale.

104 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:44:35pm

re: #85 FemNaziBitch

I got my wife her flowers today so that they’ll be totally open tomorrow. I also got her a cactus, because she goddamn loves cactus. I’m going to cook her something tomorrow, I haven’t decided what.

I also have to cook a really good meal that fits within her diet requirements.

105 CuriousLurker  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:44:55pm

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

I shot an aerial tube firework shell into a wave one night at the beach. It exploded when the wave curled over and looked amazing in the dark.

Wow, I’ll bet it did.

CL <— *wonders how she ever survived without Google, Wikipedia, and YouTube*

106 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:45:11pm

re: #73 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

The LAPD does a good enough job of it themselves.

Those that enforce the law will always be thought of as goons by lawbreakers. It’s a given. One of the nicer things to come out of this has been local civil rights activists (one that served on the police Comission) stepping up and talking about how much improved LAPD has become in the last decade. Still a work in progress but they sought to debunk the accusation that things are just like the bad old days. No links, just an interview heard on 1070am news radio.

107 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:46:00pm

re: #68 sattv4u2

by protestants

Don’t protest ants have drones?

108 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:46:02pm

The other reason many are not giving them the benefit of the doubt is that they already recklessly opened fire on two trucks and completely lied to us about the reason for the second incident.

109 Targetpractice  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:46:14pm

re: #101 FemNaziBitch

The WhackoTM of the gunz nutz group have Ted Nugent and Steven Seagal as their spokespeople. What percentage of voters even know who these guys are?

I remember Seagal back when he was a fairly fit action film star, rather than the pudgy bastard I’ve seen walking around recently. And Nugent? Only ever known him as the butt of jokes.

110 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:46:30pm

I went to Nordstrom and bought a new fragrance and gave it to Zedushka to give me.

111 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:47:07pm

re: #107 Feline Fearless Leader

Don’t protest ants have drones?

I dunno

But this conversation sure is droning on!!

112 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:47:18pm

re: #106 Political Atheist

The sad thing is that ‘much improved’ can still include shooting the shit out of a pickup that kind of looked like Dorner’s.

But LA cops have come a long way. Long way to go yet, but when corruption was as institutionalized as it was it takes a long time to fix.

113 CuriousLurker  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:47:50pm

re: #102 b_sharp

If your going, go all out.

Shut up, SHUT UP!!11!
*sticks fingers in ears, squeezes eyes shut, starts humming loudly*

114 klys  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:48:13pm

re: #85 FemNaziBitch

OMG! tomorrow is Valentine’s Day.

I haven’t gotten my husband anything …

We boycott Valentine’s Day, mostly because our anniversary, Christmas, and his birthday are in November, December, and February. I can’t come up with a 4th gift so soon after that.

115 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:48:21pm

re: #110 Vicious Babushka

I went to Nordstrom and bought a new fragrance and gave it to Zedushka to give me.

If I would have thought ahead (what?) I would have paid off a bill and given him the zero balance receipt.

HA!

116 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:48:21pm

re: #94 FemNaziBitch

I’m confused on this whole Dorner thing. I haven’t followed it as closely as you-all.

What is the difference is the cops inadvertently started the fire? Insurance/Liability reasons are all I can thing of that would be affected.

Reputation, trust, possible homicide/manslaughter charges, civil lawsuits.

117 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:48:41pm

re: #96 Vicious Babushka

Buy yourself something expensive for him to give you and charge it to his credit card.

That’s a good one.

118 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:49:14pm

re: #96 Vicious Babushka

Buy yourself something expensive for him to give you and charge it to his credit card.

Pure evil.
/

119 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:49:23pm

OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE

120 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:49:48pm

re: #116 b_sharp

Reputation, trust, possible homicide/manslaughter charges, civil lawsuits.

Ah! Where there is opportunity everyone (attorney’s) will have an angle to get at least a finger-full of the pie.

121 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:49:48pm
122 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:50:15pm

re: #116 b_sharp

Reputation, trust, possible homicide/manslaughter charges, civil lawsuits.

There’ll be no possible manslaughter charges. In similar situations cops have fired through the walls to kill the dude, and it’s been fine. He was given every chance to surrender and there was absolutely no doubt he was willing to kill and a clear danger.

123 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:50:40pm

re: #100 Charles Johnson

That is not what the Modesto police officer said. Repeating it will not make it true.

Picking all manner of nits, we are attempting to interpret a quote from the police that was already parsed by the media. Quoting your above,

He said there are two types of tear gas cannisters police use. One is an incendiary cannister called a “burner,” which can start a fire, Adams said. The department doesn’t deploy burners; it only uses nonincendiary cannisters.

I wish we could get the word-for-word from the officer in question.

124 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:51:21pm

re: #121 Gus

Ok, this is me being a mom:

Can you imagine what Keith Lawrence looked like as a 3 year old? OMG! I would have spoiled him rotten!

125 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:51:40pm

re: #121 Gus


Goddamn it, the smiles are heartbreaking in this context.

126 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:51:49pm

re: #122 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

There’ll be no possible manslaughter charges. In similar situations cops have fired through the walls to kill the dude, and it’s been fine. He was given every chance to surrender and there was absolutely no doubt he was willing to kill and a clear danger.

A deputy had been shot and killed on the scene, with no break in locale or action. It was an active-shooter situation. The possibility of any sort of wrongful-death charges is absolutely zero.

127 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:52:27pm

BBL

128 CuriousLurker  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:53:12pm

re: #127 b_sharp

BBL

Me too. Depressing…sad.

129 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:54:07pm

re: #123 erik_t

I wish we could get the word-for-word from the officer in question.

Yes, it’s not a direct quote, but the whole point of that paragraph is that there are two types of tear gas canisters — “burners” that can cause fires, and non-incendiary canisters that usually don’t. The Modesto PD doesn’t use the “burners,” they only use non-incendiary canisters.

I wouldn’t overthink it - it’s pretty clear even if it’s not a direct quote.

130 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:54:44pm

They’re so wrong! It’s more like a real-live “NCIS-Los Angeles” episode!

131 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:54:48pm
132 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:54:58pm
133 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:55:27pm

re: #131 Lidane

Todd Akin can Kiss My Ass!

134 allegro  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:56:00pm

re: #114 klys

We boycott Valentine’s Day, mostly because our anniversary, Christmas, and his birthday are in November, December, and February. I can’t come up with a 4th gift so soon after that.

My late hubby and I did silly, little Valentine’s gifts - not quite gag gifts, but close. For instance, one year I found a little stuffed Pepe Le Pew that was clutching a box of chocolates. I replaced the chocolates with two of hubby’s favorite cigars. Seemed apropos.

135 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:56:15pm

re: #133 FemNaziBitch

Todd Akin can Kiss My Ass!

THATS what you want for Valentines Day !?!?!
/

136 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:56:56pm

re: #135 sattv4u2

THATS what you want for Valentines Day !?!?!
/

In his dreams!

137 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:58:26pm

re: #129 Charles Johnson

Yes, it’s not a direct quote, but the whole point of that paragraph is that there are two types of tear gas canisters — “burners” that can cause fires, and non-incendiary canisters that usually don’t. The Modesto PD doesn’t use the “burners,” they only use non-incendiary canisters.

I wouldn’t overthink it - it’s pretty clear even if it’s not a direct quote.

Totally agree — everything you said there is absolutely correct.

The only remaining question I see is whether or not the primary goal of the grenade use was gas or burning. And to be clear, fuck Dorner; the only reason I care between these cases is the degree to which it could make the drone-prone crowd freak out about something that I don’t think really matters.

Potential collateral damage isn’t just limited to the burned-down building.

138 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:59:52pm

Pass the Violence Against Women Act

The lead sponsor of the 2011 House legislation is no longer in office, and now Republican Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, chairwoman of the House Republican Conference, is working on a new version of the bill. There are some signs that Republicans are at least concerned with the politics of opposing this legislation. All 22 no votes in the Senate were cast by Republican men, which surely doesn’t help a party that was damaged last year by two Senate candidates’ retrograde views about rape and pregnancy — and which lost the women’s vote to President Barack Obama by 11 points in November. Indeed, a bloc of House Republicans has urged their leaders to bring the legislation to a vote.

I tried emailing McMcMorris Rodgers yesterday, but her website will only take email from her district. My zip code wasn’t good enough.

139 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 1:59:54pm

re: #85 FemNaziBitch

OMG! tomorrow is Valentine’s Day.

I haven’t gotten my husband anything …

I though FemNaziBitches didn’t get men anything because deep down they hate men and want to emasculate them. Aren’t you supposed to pull the jar holding his balls out from where you hid it and let him see them or something?

//

140 A Mom Anon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:00:27pm

re: #134 allegro

I hate Valentine’s Day. I don’t find it romantic or special at ALL. I have told my husband no less than a dozen times NOT to get me flowers (I grow my own and they are too expensive and die too fast-it’s a dumb gift,IMO) and yet again he just spent 75 dollars on the damned things. Now I feel obligated to go buy him something which I cannot do because my freaking car is in the shop (mouse damage,yes, mouse damage) for at least a damned week.

I’d rather have the gift for no reason at all, not because of some Hallmark Holiday obligation. BAH!

141 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:01:01pm

re: #131 Lidane

What grassroots?

142 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:01:56pm

re: #140 A Mom Anon

I hate Valentine’s Day. I don’t find it romantic or special at ALL. I have told my husband no less than a dozen times NOT to get me flowers (I grow my own and they are too expensive and die too fast-it’s a dumb gift,IMO) and yet again he just spent 75 dollars on the damned things. Now I feel obligated to go buy him something which I cannot do because my freaking car is in the shop (mouse damage,yes, mouse damage) for at least a damned week.

I’d rather have the gift for no reason at all, not because of some Hallmark Holiday obligation. BAH!

Are you expecting a visit from three spirits tonight, starting with the Ghost of Valentine’s Days Past?
;)

143 A Mom Anon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:02:16pm

re: #141 Kragar (Antichrist )

The really green ones on the Koch brothers’ lawn….

144 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:02:51pm

re: #140 A Mom Anon

my wife is so busy with cake orders that “Valentine’s day” will be spent with her working on those while I play video games. I just buy her stuff throughout the year so it’s really just another day.

145 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:02:53pm

re: #139 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I though FemNaziBitches didn’t get men anything because deep down they hate men and want to emasculate them. Aren’t you supposed to pull the jar holding his balls out from where you hid it and let him see them or something?

//

No, it’s more about equality. Meaning, we each get something for the other. Just amazing what a girl has to go thru to have the right to give chocolates as well as receive them.

146 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:03:31pm

re: #142 Feline Fearless Leader

Are you expecting a visit from three spirits tonight, starting with the Ghost of Valentine’s Days Past?
;)

why does that sound like something that could be made into a Skinemax movie?

147 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:03:33pm

In other news, Comcast now owns NBC.

148 Targetpractice  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:03:36pm

re: #122 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

There’ll be no possible manslaughter charges. In similar situations cops have fired through the walls to kill the dude, and it’s been fine. He was given every chance to surrender and there was absolutely no doubt he was willing to kill and a clear danger.

Agreed, there’s probably no chance of criminal charges. Now civil charges, that’s not out of the question. Right now, there’s still too many unanswered questions about not only the circumstances of the fire, but of the conduct of the LAPD and affiliated law enforcement units, to say that this is a cut and dry case.

149 freetoken  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:04:08pm

Bigfoot Lives!

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!!!

150 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:04:17pm

re: #145 FemNaziBitch

I know, I was just kidding. :)

151 freetoken  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:05:27pm
152 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:05:39pm
153 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:05:45pm

re: #150 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I know, I was just kidding. :)

:)

154 freetoken  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:07:46pm

This is not fakery:

New hominin wrist bones

155 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:07:57pm

re: #151 freetoken

I wish this to be fakery:

Will Mama June be on the next Dancing with the Stars cast?

I don’t want to live on this planet anymore…

156 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:08:11pm

Dorner Reward Loophole: Los Angeles May Not Have To Pay For Information

The city of Los Angeles offered a lot of money for information regarding the whereabouts of Christopher Dorner, but after last night’s shootout the city may be off the hook for their $1 million reward. According to the legalese in the offer, there are a few big loopholes that the LAPD may be able to crawl through.

According to TMZ, there were three major awards offered for information about Dorner. The LA City Council and the LA County Board of Supervisors both offered a $100,000 reward and the Mayor of Los Angeles offered a $1 million reward.

All of those offers may be void, however, since Dorner was killed during the shootout last night and not captured.

157 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:09:04pm

re: #156 NJDhockeyfan

Dorner Reward Loophole: Los Angeles May Not Have To Pay For Information

www.inquisitr.com...]>www.inquisitr.com…]>

They’ll need that money to fight the lawsuits from those suing because they thought they should get the reward.

158 Targetpractice  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:09:18pm
159 efuseakay  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:09:25pm

re: #84 freetoken

Speaking of fake, here is a good take on the release today of the supposed “bigfoot” DNA story:

Like OMG! Bigfoot DNA paper is published!

Hehehehe… Ketchum starts up a new “science journal” just to get her paper “published”.

It fooled the AAAS pr portal EurekAlert for a few hours, until someone noticed something and pulled the EurekAlert entry.

“There’s a squatch in these woods!”

160 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:09:42pm

re: #94 FemNaziBitch

I’m confused on this whole Dorner thing. I haven’t followed it as closely as you-all.

What is the difference is the cops inadvertently started the fire? Insurance/Liability reasons are all I can thing of that would be affected.

At least they didn’t use a drone.

161 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:10:03pm

re: #156 NJDhockeyfan

always read the fine print. However that is rather dickish.

162 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:10:16pm

Shameless Pages Post Link, but I just loved this story.

163 A Mom Anon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:10:29pm

re: #142 Feline Fearless Leader

Ha! Smarty Pants. No, when I was a much younger wife and mom it mattered more. Now that the kids are pretty much out of the house and we’ve been married for 20 yrs it just seems, well, kind of forced and it’s not really something I care about anymore. I have other priorities and IMO florist’s flowers are like wiping your ass with money. I grow flowers I love in the spring and summer (I still have tons of lavender in the spare room in a box),sometimes into fall and I just think it’s a gift that requires no thought. I’d rather have the husband THINK about what he gives me (like the time he got me Fiesta Ware because he heard me wax nostalgic over my grandma’s lost collection). I know he loves me, I don’t need a red and pink explosion of ack delivered to my door.

YMMV of course.

164 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:10:35pm

re: #160 Achilles Tang

At least they didn’t use a drone.

…or did they?
/Just asking truther questions

165 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:10:41pm

re: #160 Achilles Tang

At least they didn’t use a drone.

Drones!

166 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:11:03pm
167 RadicalModerate  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:11:34pm

re: #121 Gus

The fact is that the first two of Dorner’s victims were an African-American man and an Asian woman, and were the only two not resulting from the subsequent pursuit. It kind of blows the right’s (especially Rush Limbaugh’s) theorizing that Dorner was attempting some sort of racially-motivated attacks against white people.

168 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:11:42pm

re: #157 FemNaziBitch

They’ll need that money to fight the lawsuits from those suing because they thought they should get the reward.

And those suing them for shooting the crap out of their trucks.

169 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:11:56pm

re: #163 A Mom Anon

Ha! Smarty Pants. No, when I was a much younger wife and mom it mattered more. Now that the kids are pretty much out of the house and we’ve been married for 20 yrs it just seems, well, kind of forced and it’s not really something I care about anymore. I have other priorities and IMO florist’s flowers are like wiping your ass with money. I grow flowers I love in the spring and summer (I still have tons of lavender in the spare room in a box),sometimes into fall and I just think it’s a gift that requires no thought. I’d rather have the husband THINK about what he gives me (like the time he got me Fiesta Ware because he heard me wax nostalgic over my grandma’s lost collection). I know he loves me, I don’t need a red and pink explosion of ack delivered to my door.

YMMV of course.

Yes, I understand. Sometimes they think they just need to get something, anything and don’t think at all. They just don’t want to be in the dog house for forgetting.

Silly Men!
:)

170 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:12:45pm

re: #166 Gus

I hope the cops can get the DNA sequenced soon or otherwise show that the remains are Dorner. Of course, there are always going to be some nutbars who insist he got away, and is waiting out there somewhere.

171 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:13:12pm

re: #170 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I hope the cops can get the DNA sequenced soon or otherwise show that the remains are Dorner. Of course, there are always going to be some nutbars who insist he got away, and is waiting out there somewhere.

It was a clone.
True story.

172 A Mom Anon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:14:12pm

Alright Lizards, I’m off to get some dinner happening. Have a great night.

173 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:14:15pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

It was a clone.
True story.

Aliens.

174 simoom  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:14:34pm
175 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:14:55pm

re: #173 Kragar (Antichrist )

Aliens.

Bullshit.
They’re extinct.
I have proof.
*
^See???

176 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:14:58pm

re: #170 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I hope the cops can get the DNA sequenced soon or otherwise show that the remains are Dorner. Of course, there are always going to be some nutbars who insist he got away, and is waiting out there somewhere.

Yep. But you know conspiracy nuts. The DNA results or dental records will become a part of the ever expanding and elaborate conspiracy theory.

177 Targetpractice  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:15:15pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

It was a clone.
True story.

A clone was created in violation of the Sixth Day laws?

//

178 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:16:38pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

It was a clone.
True story.

Dorner is a ninja.

179 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:17:12pm

re: #157 FemNaziBitch

They’ll need that money to fight the lawsuits from those suing because they thought they should get the reward.

Next conspiracy theory: Cops ordered to burn Dorner to save the city $1 mil!

180 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:17:15pm

re: #176 Gus

Yep. But you know conspiracy nuts. The DNA results or dental records will become a part of the ever expanding and elaborate conspiracy theory.

Yeah, but they’re a very insignificant bunch, and they wield no significant power. They’re irritating and dispiriting but there’s no real reason (or way) to do anything about them.

The best thing the cops can do is be totally transparent and informative. They’ve kind of fucked that up so far but I think they’ll eventually get their act together and explain in simple terms that they escalated force and Dorner’s death is on him.

181 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:17:29pm

re: #177 Targetpractice

A clone was created in violation of the Sixth Day laws?

//

I don’t know what is worse, that you went there or that I recognize the fact you went there.

182 Targetpractice  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:18:42pm

re: #181 Kragar (Antichrist )

I don’t know what is worse, that you went there or that I recognize the fact you went there.

What can I say, I have a thing for cheesy scifi movies.

183 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:19:34pm

Hey Charles, according to one cop friend of mine, “burners” are just slang for all tear gas grenades where they work. They call the ones that are more incendiary “CS”, but all their grenades are collectively burners.

184 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:19:35pm

Just checked, and infowars.com is going wild with conspiracy theories.

185 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:20:16pm

House Republicans Plan To Act On VAWA In ‘Coming Weeks’

One day after the Senate voted overwhelmingly to reauthorize the Violence Against Women Act with expanded provisions, a top aide to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) said House GOP leaders intended to consider their own, yet-to-be unveiled version of the legislation in the coming weeks.

… . .

“Majority Leader Cantor said during my colloquy on the floor last week that he cares deeply about women who are victims of violence at risk,” Hoyer said, “and I quote: ‘We need to get them the relief … that this bill has to offer. That’s our priority. We must move and act on this bill.’ I agree with Mr. Cantor. And the House ought to act swiftly, ASAP, to pass the Senate’s version which is supported by law enforcement, civil rights groups, and those who care for victims of domestic violence.”

I included that last paragraph (with link) in today’s email to Eric Cantor.

You can too!

186 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:20:56pm

My cop friend has also noted that pulling down the wall is the most likely thing to ignite the fire, because that’ll blow a ton of particulate— drywall and stuff— into the air that can combust really easily. So, weirdly, that tactic more than the type of gas grenade may have been what sparked the fire.

187 Bulworth  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:21:06pm

re: #155 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

This would seriously make me consider throwing my TV out from my second floor sliding glass door, and I don’t watch either of those shows.

188 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:21:11pm

re: #184 Charles Johnson

Just checked, and infowars.com is going wild with conspiracy theories.

But they’re normally so constrained and slow to judge.

189 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:21:29pm

re: #184 Charles Johnson

Just checked, and infowars.com is going wild with conspiracy theories.

Well it is Wednesday.

190 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:21:57pm

re: #179 NJDhockeyfan

Next conspiracy theory: Cops ordered to burn Dorner to save the city $1 mil!

SoCal police departments rack up million dollar liabilities for breakfast. I shudder to think how much the operation to find him cost, with all that helicopter time, multiple agencies, SWAT teams on overtime, drones.

191 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:23:00pm

Big Bear flight restrictions was a lie! No, wait, here they are…

[Link: tfr.faa.gov…]
[Link: tfr.faa.gov…]

192 Targetpractice  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:23:04pm

re: #185 FemNaziBitch

House Republicans Plan To Act On VAWA In ‘Coming Weeks’

I included that last paragraph (with link) in today’s email to Eric Cantor.

You can too!

They’re going to do what they did last year: Pass their own watered-down, stripped-down version and then say that the Democrats are wrong for not wanting a “clean” bill.

193 Bulworth  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:23:40pm

I sure hope this Dorner thing is over soon so Sheriff Joe can go back to searching for the Real birth certificate. /

194 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:23:45pm

re: #192 Targetpractice

They’re going to do what they did last year: Pass their own watered-down, stripped-down version and then say that the Democrats are wrong for not wanting a “clean” bill.

And, we have to keep the pressure on them. It’s all we can do, so we must!

195 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:23:58pm

re: #193 Bulworth

I sure hope this Dorner thing is over soon so Sheriff Joe can go back to searching for the Real birth certificate. /

He and Steven Seagal.

196 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:26:28pm

Sad, the point the GOP is upset about is the Civil Rights issues.

Civil Rights Protection – The bill includes a civil rights provision that guarantees consistent application of civil rights protections to all VAWA programs, in place of the patchwork of inconsistent civil rights protections currently in place, and ensures that no victim can be denied services based on race, color, religion, national origin, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, or disability.

197 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:27:11pm

Sympathy for Dorner is very real here in LA, by the way. I was at the market yesterday afternoon and overheard a conversation - without relating the whole thing, I’ll just say they were NOT friendly toward the way LAPD handled the case. I didn’t get the impression they approved of Dorner’s killings or thought he was a hero, but most of their ire was definitely directed at the cops.

199 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:28:20pm
200 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:28:49pm

re: #197 Charles Johnson

My wife was none to impressed with the LAPD either. She didn’t agree that he should be killing people but after the police shot up the truck with the two women in it she sympathized more with Dorner than she did with the cops.

201 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:30:11pm

and I am just south of L.A. not far from where the Long Beach PD shot that mentally ill guy a while back who was unarmed.

202 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:30:29pm

re: #195 FemNaziBitch

He and Steven Seagal.

Is he related to Jonathan Livingston Seagull??

203 Bulworth  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:30:34pm

re: #198 Lidane

The poors shouldn’t have their own mansion-like apartments!

204 EPR-radar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:30:39pm

re: #198 Lidane

If the private sector will not pay living wages, then the only alternative left is taxing and redistributing on an epic scale.

One of these is the easy way, and the other is the hard way…

205 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:31:06pm

All I can say is that I wouldn’t want to be a cop. They are damed if they do and damned if they don’t.

It’s a shit job.

206 erik_t  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:31:23pm

re: #198 Lidane

How Many Minimum Wage Hours Does It Take To Afford A Two-Bedroom Apartment In Your State?

Cute idea, but attempting to classify it on a state-by-state basis seems… statistically dubious. What relation Cairo and Chicago share, I don’t really know.

207 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:31:28pm

re: #202 sattv4u2

Is he related to Jonathan Livingston Seagull??

He thinks so.

208 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:32:27pm

re: #183 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Hey Charles, according to one cop friend of mine, “burners” are just slang for all tear gas grenades where they work. They call the ones that are more incendiary “CS”, but all their grenades are collectively burners.

That is what I have been told also. My guy says it’s from how they work to generate the gas. Not their effect, not the likelihood of starting a fire.

BTW you know those oxygen generators in airliners for when the pressure falls from a leak or equipment failure? They too are incendiary by nature. They get so hot they turn the metal blue. Found this out the hard way flying to NYC one time. They have this heat shield, and could obviously give a person a heck of a burn on contact.

209 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:33:19pm

re: #198 Lidane

How Many Minimum Wage Hours Does It Take To Afford A Two-Bedroom Apartment In Your State?

Saw this the other day. Have to ditto what’s being pointed out. CoL here in Northern Virginia is much higher than it is downstate. Still though.

210 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:33:48pm

re: #205 FemNaziBitch

Yep it really is. I am not saying all cops are bad but most of the interactions I have had with them have not been of the good variety.

Growing up the local rent-a-cops (ie off duty state cops hired by the town) almost pulled their gun on one of my friends just because we were hanging out on a street corner and he wanted to know why they were telling us to move when we didn’t do anything.

Then there was the time in Irvine I was stopped and grilled by Irvine PD for “looking like someone they were looking for”.

And there was the time with the Newport Beach PD where I was leaving work late one evening (office job) and was pulled over and had my car searched because I “looked suspicious”.

211 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:34:16pm

re: #197 Charles Johnson

Sympathy for Dorner is very real here in LA, by the way. I was at the market yesterday afternoon and overheard a conversation - without relating the whole thing, I’ll just say they were NOT friendly toward the way LAPD handled the case. I didn’t get the impression they approved of Dorner’s killings or thought he was a hero, but most of their ire was definitely directed at the cops.

I have zero sympathy for Dorner. To have sympathy for him because of the LAPD would be like sympathizing a spree killer that killed 4 people at a health insurance office — only because I hate health insurance companies. What Dorner did, and what the LAPD are, including their subsequent screw ups, are separate issues. There is no moral equivalency either to Dorners cold blooded murders and occasional bunked up cop shooting of a perp. Both are wrong but they’re also wrong in varying degrees. Dorner’s act puts him at the very pinnacle of evil or as some would say, sin.

212 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:34:38pm

re: #209 HappyWarrior

Saw this the other day. Have to ditto what’s being pointed out. CoL here in Northern Virginia is much higher than it is downstate. Still though.

I think it’s a bad one mostly because it shows that in most states a couple working full-time minimimum wage jobs CAN afford a 2 bedroom apt. Doesn’t say they can afford child care AND the apartment … .

213 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:34:43pm

re: #196 FemNaziBitch

Sad, the point the GOP is upset about is the Civil Rights issues.

It’s probably the sexual orientation for most of them I bet you. This is really pathetic.

214 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:34:55pm

re: #208 Political Atheist

My friend also said that he’d never heard of the ‘burn-safe’ ones being called ‘burners’ specifically, as Killgore asserted.

However, calling something a burner because it is something that burns is pretty clearly an acknowledgement that the thing can start fires, since, y’know, burning.

215 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:35:18pm

re: #213 HappyWarrior

It’s probably the sexual orientation for most of them I bet you. This is really pathetic.

and immigrant status.

216 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:35:39pm

re: #212 FemNaziBitch

I think it’s a bad one mostly because it shows that in most states a couple working full-time minimimum wage jobs CAN afford a 2 bedroom apt. Doesn’t say they can afford child care AND the apartment … .

True enough.

217 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:36:00pm

re: #215 FemNaziBitch

and immigrant status.

Yep, good catch.

218 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:36:05pm

re: #214 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

My friend also said that he’d never heard of the ‘burn-safe’ ones being called ‘burners’ specifically, as Killgore asserted.

However, calling something a burner because it is something that burns is pretty clearly an acknowledgement that the thing can start fires, since, y’know, burning.

Next you’ll say that burning and fires are somehow connected. Excuse me while I get my tinfoil hat.

219 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:36:53pm

re: #197 Charles Johnson

Sympathy for Dorner is very real here in LA, by the way. I was at the market yesterday afternoon and overheard a conversation - without relating the whole thing, I’ll just say they were NOT friendly toward the way LAPD handled the case. I didn’t get the impression they approved of Dorner’s killings or thought he was a hero, but most of their ire was definitely directed at the cops.

Bad guys get sympathy. Must be some social pathology. I have no sympathy for Dorner, or Charles Manson or Jessie James, or Bonnie & Clyde. To me it’s all the same delusional garbage.

220 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:37:14pm

re: #210 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Yep it really is. I am not saying all cops are bad but most of the interactions I have had with them have not been of the good variety.

Growing up the local rent-a-cops (ie off duty state cops hired by the town) almost pulled their gun on one of my friends just because we were hanging out on a street corner and he wanted to know why they were telling us to move when we didn’t do anything.

Then there was the time in Irvine I was stopped and grilled by Irvine PD for “looking like someone they were looking for”.

And there was the time with the Newport Beach PD where I was leaving work late one evening (office job) and was pulled over and had my car searched because I “looked suspicious”.

Cops are in a situation in which everyone lies to them on a regular basis. After a few years, I can see why many are they way they are. Not to mention that they could be killed at any time for no reason—just because they wear the uniform.

221 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:38:28pm

re: #215 FemNaziBitch

and immigrant status.

And allowing Native Americans to prosecute white Americans on their own reservations. Without VAWA, they can’t. So wrong.

222 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:38:29pm

re: #219 Political Atheist

Bad guys get sympathy. Must be some social pathology. I have no sympathy for Dorner, or Charles Manson or Jessie James, or Bonnie & Clyde. To me it’s all the same delusional garbage.

That asshole Jesse James, the motorcycle dude, always fucking mentioned that he was Jesse James’s descendant as though that was something to be proud of.

Outlaw is used almost as often in a positive as negative sense.

223 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:39:02pm

re: #222 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

That asshole Jesse James, the motorcycle dude, always fucking mentioned that he was Jesse James’s descendant as though that was something to be proud of.

Outlaw is used almost as often in a positive as negative sense.

The Robin Hood fallacy?

224 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:39:49pm

re: #213 HappyWarrior

It’s probably the sexual orientation for most of them I bet you. This is really pathetic.

Do something!!! Put some pressure on your Congress Critters!

225 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:40:01pm

re: #222 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

That asshole Jesse James, the motorcycle dude, always fucking mentioned that he was Jesse James’s descendant as though that was something to be proud of.

Outlaw is used almost as often in a positive as negative sense.

Look at Dillinger. He was romanticized. My Dad just got done reading that Willie Sutton novel. Another criminal who was romanticized. Hell romanticizing criminals is one of the oldest traditions in the book. Goes back to at least Robin Hood and probably even further.

226 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:40:40pm

re: #224 FemNaziBitch

Do something!!! Put some pressure on your Congress Critters!

Any way to see how they voted?

227 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:40:59pm

In other news, I was just given flowers for Valentine’s day. A live potted rose bush with red little bitty roses on it.

228 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:41:08pm

re: #225 HappyWarrior

Look at Dillinger. He was romanticized. My Dad just got done reading that Willie Sutton novel. Another criminal who was romanticized. Hell romanticizing criminals is one of the oldest traditions in the book. Goes back to at least Robin Hood and probably even further.

In England in 1776, George Washington was a criminal … . .

229 steve_davis  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:41:20pm

re: #6 Political Atheist

Because so many want to turn that simple incendiary gas hardware fact into a “deliberately burned him down” instead of what it was. An attempt to get him to surrender. Or force him from the cabin. That “deliberate’ is just a damn lie.

Well, yes, except for the cops on the radio apparently saying, “Let’s burn the motherfucker down.” And I do have a genuine problem with the cops deliberately incinerating someone. He wasn’t going anywhere.

230 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:41:53pm

re: #223 FemNaziBitch

The Robin Hood fallacy?

Whats the difference between Outlaws and In-Laws??

Outlaws are wanted!!!

//

(my mother-in-law loved that joke)

231 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:42:00pm

re: #220 FemNaziBitch

Cops are in a situation in which everyone lies to them on a regular basis. After a few years, I can see why many are they way they are. Not to mention that they could be killed at any time for no reason—just because they wear the uniform.

So treat everyone like a suspect and in general act like a thug? Like I said I can empathize but just can’t sympathize. To have a cop pulling you over because you “look suspicious leaving a parking lot at night” is not exactly a pleasant experience, then to have that cop keep make you sit on their car while they search yours just because you “look suspicious” is even worse. Not to mention that should you refuse to let them search your vehicle then you are even more “suspicious” is even worse.

And I’m a white dude. I can only imagine what some of my friends have gone through and know of a few that were pulled over for driving through a “well to do” neighborhood in a not so great car.

232 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:42:08pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

Any way to see how they voted?

House hasn’t voted yet. They are dragging their feet trying to re-write their own version.

I think Pressure on Cantor might be the best way to go. I could be wrong.

233 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:42:54pm

re: #231 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

So treat everyone like a suspect and in general act like a thug? Like I said I can empathize but just can’t sympathize. To have a cop pulling you over because you “look suspicious leaving a parking lot at night” is not exactly a pleasant experience, then to have that cop keep make you sit on their car while they search yours just because you “look suspicious” is even worse. Not to mention that should you refuse to let them search your vehicle then you are even more “suspicious” is even worse.

And I’m a white dude. I can only imagine what some of my friends have gone through and know of a few that were pulled over for driving through a “well to do” neighborhood in a not so great car.

You do not have to submit to a search.

234 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:43:30pm

I’ve got no problem with cops using a device which may cause a fire to end a siege situation.

I’ve got a real problem with cops deciding to burn down a place to get their man.

235 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:43:38pm

re: #224 FemNaziBitch

Do something!!! Put some pressure on your Congress Critters!

Obdi, did you mean to downding me?

236 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:43:40pm

re: #211 Gus

I don’t have any sympathy for Dorner, either. He was a spree killer, a mass murderer, and it was his evil choices that caused him to die the way he did.

237 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:44:37pm

re: #235 FemNaziBitch

Obdi, did you mean to downding me?

Absolutely not, sorry about that.

238 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:44:37pm

re: #233 FemNaziBitch

You do not have to submit to a search.

No, you don’t, but not submitting to a search, at least to the cops here, means you have something to hide so in the end your vehicle will be searched one way or the other and your time will be wasted.

239 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:45:07pm

re: #236 Charles Johnson

I don’t have any sympathy for Dorner, either. He was a spree killer, a mass murderer, and it was his evil choices that caused him to die the way he did.

Indeed.

240 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:45:12pm

re: #238 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

No, you don’t, but not submitting to a search, at least to the cops here, means you have something to hide so in the end your vehicle will be searched one way or the other and your time will be wasted.

Yes, that is a problem.

241 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:45:39pm

re: #236 Charles Johnson

I don’t have any sympathy for Dorner, either. He was a spree killer, a mass murderer, and it was his evil choices that caused him to die the way he did.

i haven’t checked the freeper swamp, but considering past behavior, they are probably declaring him a ‘leftist’ and asserting that we all think he’s great

242 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:46:44pm

re: #220 FemNaziBitch

Cops are in a situation in which everyone lies to them on a regular basis. After a few years, I can see why many are they way they are. Not to mention that they could be killed at any time for no reason—just because they wear the uniform.

If we stopped demanding that police officers enforce victimless crime laws a lot less people would be lying to them and hating them for what, if it weren’t for the color of authority, would essentially amount to kidnapping.

243 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:47:00pm

re: #227 wrenchwench

In other news, I was just given flowers for Valentine’s day. A live potted rose bush with red little bitty roses on it.

Donna gave me my first kindle last night. I’m loving it already! Going a little nuts on a buying spree of books.

244 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:47:18pm

re: #240 FemNaziBitch

Yes, that is a problem.

This is not in L.A. which is bad enough, this is OC where it tends to be even worse, especially around the “well to do” cities of Irvine, Costa Mesa and Newport Beach. There’s a running joke that if a homeless person shows up on an Irvine st. they are promptly taken to some other city and dumped, it’s only half a joke.

245 HappyWarrior  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:47:46pm

re: #243 Political Atheist

Donna gave me my first kindle last night. I’m loving it already! Going a little nuts on a buying spree of books.

Isn’t it awesome? I got one with my graduation money last winter. Love it. Perfect for traveling.

246 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:47:52pm

re: #243 Political Atheist

Donna gave me my first kindle last night.

That sounds…. never mind.

247 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:48:10pm

re: #241 engineer cat

i haven’t checked the freeper swamp, but considering past behavior, they are probably declaring him a ‘leftist’ and asserting that we all think he’s great

well, in his manifesto he did say if we had better gun control laws he wouldn’t be able to do what he did and he was a fan of MSNBC apparently…

248 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:48:21pm

re: #184 Charles Johnson

Just checked, and infowars.com is going wild with conspiracy theories.

And that’s different from the usual stuff at infowars just exactly how?

249 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:48:42pm

re: #243 Political Atheist

Donna gave me my first kindle last night.

BOW-CHICA-BOW-BOW

250 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:48:59pm

There are cops in my family. None are people would choose to be around if not for forced family fun. But they were mostly that way before they became cops, so I don’t know how much of it is the job and how much of it is their personality.

I have a feeling it takes a certain personality to want to be a cop and to stay in the job until retirement.

251 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:49:33pm

Rep. Huelskamp: Employment Protections ‘Reward Homosexual Behavior’

According to Huelskamp, equal protections under the law for gays and lesbians are “radical ideas” that “selectively reward homosexual behavior”:

HUELSKAMP: The response from the general leadership is: gosh, we can’t talk about social issues. But the President can? Someone has to stand up and defend the seventy percent position that most Americans support traditional marriage, most Americans understand the value of family, they understand it’s under attack and they understand that, they see it, they believe it. So we got to stand up. I’ve always been confused by Republicans that refuse to support a seventy percent position and say, ‘gosh we can’t take our stand there.’ But whether it’s Obamacare, whether it’s these radical DoD [Department of Defense] proposals coming out of the White House or changing all the employment rules to specifically and selectively reward homosexual behavior, those are really radical ideas and most Americans do not accept them.

So we’ll have an opportunity to hear from the President but again don’t forget he is a lame duck President, he’s not running for election again and I think this could be the most radical we’ll hear from him in a long time because it is Obama unleashed. We’re going to hear tonight probably exactly what he would like to do and he promised he’s going to change America and he’s still after that agenda and that goal.

A “reward” implies something special or extra that other people are not entitled to. The only “reward” of employment protections for gay people is getting to keep their jobs.

252 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:50:09pm

Cause of cabin fire fuels debate on Christopher Dorner standoff

“Fire doing quite well. I’m going to let it go,” a law enforcement officer also said, according to a Yahoo News reporter also monitoring the San Bernardino sheriff’s radio traffic.

A smart move, S.W.A.T. Magazine editor Denny Hansen told Yahoo News.

“You really can’t send firemen up there if the subject is still alive and may shoot them,” said Hansen, himself a former tactical officer. “They may have believed that he started the fire as a diversionary tactic to escape.”

Veteran police consultant Chuck Drago told Yahoo News that he interprets the officers’ discussion of “burners” to be the tear gas canisters that were used.

“They are not meant to cause fire, but they can,” he said. “Sometimes you have a lot of options at your disposal and sometimes you’re limited.”

With nightfall approaching and Dorner having already vowed to seek revenge by unleashing “unconventional and asymmetrical warfare,” Drago said the officers must have decided that a possible blaze was worth the risk to accomplish their mission.

“I think they had to move pretty quickly in this situation,” he said.

Hansen scoffs at anyone who thinks otherwise.

“I’ve already heard some people say, ‘Well, they burned him alive without a trial,’” Hansen said. “There are always going to be conspiracy theories.”

253 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:51:14pm

re: #251 Kragar (Antichrist )

Rep. Huelskamp: Employment Protections ‘Reward Homosexual Behavior’

Because if it weren’t for the law and peer pressure and the LOVE OF JESUS, you would be out boinking guys every chance you got, Rep Huelskamp?

Serious projection here.

254 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:52:03pm

re: #184 Charles Johnson

Just checked, and infowars.com is going wild with conspiracy theories.

I hope you have a ‘throwaway machine’ you use to visit those sites. I created a guest account with restricted privileges on my Ubuntu box for when I go check those sites…

255 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:52:26pm

re: #243 Political Atheist

Donna gave me my first kindle last night. I’m loving it already! Going a little nuts on a buying spree of books.

It’s my favorite gadget in a decade. It’s a reason I’m glad it’s the future now.

256 Political Atheist  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:52:37pm

re: #246 wrenchwench

That sounds…. never mind.

I guess I could have chosen a better way to put that, LOL.

257 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:53:19pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

Hansen said. “There are always going to be conspiracy theories.”

And it’s generous of you to show your concern by keeping tabs on them.

258 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:53:21pm

re: #248 Vicious Babushka

To be honest I never go to the site - I just wanted to see whether they had any crazy ideas about Dorner and of course they do. I don’t follow Alex Jones normally, unless he does something obnoxious enough to get into the news. It’s kind of disturbing that the crazy/sick shit on that site is as popular as it is.

259 Bulworth  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:53:32pm

re: #251 Kragar (Antichrist )

Radical blah blah blah Radical!! blah blah blah Radical! blah blah blah

260 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:53:46pm

Reward Homosexual Behavior

has b f skinner been notified that his theory that humans are bundles of conditioned reflexes without free will has been adapted as conservative dogma?

261 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:53:54pm
262 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:54:47pm

bbl

263 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:55:29pm

And in the pulling a number out of his ass completely category;

Huelskamp: 70% of Americans Oppose Marriage Equality; Obama Wants to ‘Destroy the Family’

Which explains why repeatedly in national polling, marriage equality wins with an all time high in support.

264 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:55:57pm

re: #256 Political Atheist

I guess I could have chosen a better way to put that, LOL.

Or capitalized it at least!

265 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:55:58pm

re: #255 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It’s my favorite gadget in a decade. It’s a reason I’m glad it’s the future now.

i refuse to declare it the future until all books ever published and all movies and audio recordings ever made, are available instantly on the web

and searchable as well

until then i think we are living in a primitive era of computing technology

266 Bulworth  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:56:24pm

re: #253 FemNaziBitch

Radical radical (things I don’t understand) radical radical (things I don’t like) radical radical radical…

267 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:57:43pm
268 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:57:50pm

re: #258 Charles Johnson

To be honest I never go to the site - I just wanted to see whether they had any crazy ideas about Dorner and of course they do. I don’t follow Alex Jones normally, unless he does something obnoxious enough to get into the news. It’s kind of disturbing that the crazy/sick shit on that site is as popular as it is.

I only ever once visited infowars, because I noticed somebody was hotlinking a graphic from my site. I swapped it with this.

269 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:58:24pm
270 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 2:59:54pm

re: #269 Gus

How does killing a basketball coach and her fiancee constitute pay back again exactly?

271 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:00:00pm

re: #269 Gus

I don’t get how killing civilians = getting the LAPD back, either.

272 Shvaughn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:00:29pm

re: #106 Political Atheist

Those that enforce the law will always be thought of as goons by lawbreakers. It’s a given.

My mom isn’t a lawbreaker and she was horrified by the cops opening fire on the newspaper delivery women.

273 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:01:45pm

re: #269 Gus

Ugh.

274 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:02:09pm

re: #270 Kragar (Antichrist )

How does killing a basketball coach and her fiancee constitute pay back again exactly?

re: #271 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I don’t get how killing civilians = getting the LAPD back, either.

Some people have a strange set of morals. Or something. Genuine cop haters are some of the most unreasonable and whacky people around.

275 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:05:26pm

re: #274 Gus

re: #271 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Some people have a strange set of morals. Or something. Genuine cop haters are some of the most unreasonable and whacky people around.

I kind of understood the cop haters that come from some places, but most of the ones you meet are anarchist douchebags. One friend of mine straight-up hates cops because he grew up in an area with corrupt cops, where they got tipped off by one drug dealer about all the small-time dealers in the neighborhood so they could roll them up, leaving him competitively free. They got great arrest records, he mainly kept the peace and made money.

To me, this is at worst Faustian bargain— it might even have been better for my friend for this to be the case than a constant fight to be the kingpin. And it’s not the fault of the cops that they have to bust drug dealers, it’s the fault of our stupid laws.

Edit: But I don’t blame my friend for his animosity, either; he could see what’s basically blatant corruption right in front of him.

276 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:07:37pm

MOAR *HEAD-DESKING* FAKE QUOTES.

277 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:08:23pm

re: #275 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I kind of understood the cop haters that come from some places, but most of the ones you meet are anarchist douchebags. One friend of mine straight-up hates cops because he grew up in an area with corrupt cops, where they got tipped off by one drug dealer about all the small-time dealers in the neighborhood so they could roll them up, leaving him competitively free. They got great arrest records, he mainly kept the peace and made money.

To me, this is at worst Faustian bargain— it might even have been better for my friend for this to be the case than a constant fight to be the kingpin. And it’s not the fault of the cops that they have to bust drug dealers, it’s the fault of our stupid laws.

Right. I was thinking about mandatory sentencing laws earlier WRT to cop hatred. Cops don’t make the laws. Sure, they arrest people for things like drugs but they’re not the ones who force judges into making minimal sentences. The anarchist types are a strange lot. You get the ones on the far-left and the far-right. I mean, not many moderate cop haters out there.

278 Shvaughn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:09:08pm

re: #219 Political Atheist

Bad guys get sympathy. Must be some social pathology. I have no sympathy for Dorner, or Charles Manson or Jessie James, or Bonnie & Clyde. To me it’s all the same delusional garbage.

The bad guy is getting sympathy in this case because a lot of people know that the LAPD is corrupt.

That doesn’t mean that they support killing, but it does mean that they don’t support the corrupt actions of the LAPD.

279 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:09:31pm

MAKE TEACHERS WORK FOR BOWL OF GRUEL!

280 Bear  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:09:45pm

re: #243 Political Atheist

When I looked at e-book readers, I thought a different brand was the best for me. Though I must admit I spend way too much time reading and do not do other things I should do.

281 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:14:29pm

Rubio Speech Cliff Notes Version

“barack is a big meanie and everything he says about us is a lie and i’m gonna tell mommie on him. me and my father were helped by government programs, but everything government does hurts people. only business is good. i’m very thirsty now. thank you”

282 gwangung  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:15:11pm

re: #279 Vicious Babushka

Moron. As if dumping on the folks who actually deal with the kids is going to HELP….

283 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:15:13pm

Okay, now according to multiple cop friends, and cops I asked in a cop forum:

A) Burners can refer to any tear gas grenade.

B) They’re referred to as burners because they are burning a chemical to make the smoke

C) They get really freaking hot and can start fires, and the CS ones get hotter and even more likely to start a fire. All cops know this.

D) Knocking down a wall once you have grenades in place and burning can easily cause a flare-up as the air shifts and a ton of debris is thrown up into the air at once. Not many cops know this, but some do, especially the guys who knock down walls.

E) There’s no way to use tear gas grenades without a chance of fire, but it’d be a really weird way of trying to kill him. Tear gas was a totally logical choice as was taking down the wall.

284 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:16:37pm

…u.s. tops in school spending…

??

and we are at the bottom in teacher’s salaries. how does that work?

something fishy about the school spending assertion here…

285 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:17:23pm

Nice story about the ‘cabin’ that burned down with Dorner in it.

286 EPR-radar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:18:39pm

re: #284 engineer cat

…u.s. tops in school spending…

??

and we are at the bottom in teacher’s salaries. how does that work?

something fishy about the school spending assertion here…

If true, then the difference would likely be bloated administration/management payroll and expenses (just like much of the private sector).

287 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:19:53pm

re: #286 EPR-radar

If true, then the difference would likely be bloated administration/management payroll and expenses (just like much of the private sector).

list of countries by spending on education as a percentage of gdp

u.s. comes in 55th

288 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:21:16pm

Hasn’t Reid already said that he’s not going to honor any holds and that if the GOP want to filibuster these people, they have to do it the old-fashioned way and read the phone book on C-SPAN?

WTF.

289 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:21:56pm

Idolizing Dorner would be re: #283 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Okay, now according to multiple cop friends, and cops I asked in a cop forum:

A) Burners can refer to any tear gas grenade.

B) They’re referred to as burners because they are burning a chemical to make the smoke

C) They get really freaking hot and can start fires, and the CS ones get hotter and even more likely to start a fire.

D) Knocking down a wall once you have grenades in place and burning can easily cause a flare-up as the air shifts and a ton of debris is thrown up into the air at once.

E) There’s no way to use tear gas grenades without a chance of fire, but it’d be a really weird way of trying to kill him. Tear gas was a totally logical choice as was taking down the wall.

Speaking of which.

TomaHawk Burnsafe HOME

The Covina-Thomas Company is a small family owned business established in 1959. Thomas Giandomenico, the president and founder of The Covina-Thomas Company has worked hard to bring The CTC to the forefront as one of the top aerospace machine shops in the industry.

After many years pioneering his way through the Aerospace and Medical industries, Thomas has now combined design talents with his son, who happens to be a Sergeant for the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department Special Enforcement Bureau. Together they developed the popular BurnSafe and TomaHawk. The BurnSafe and TomaHawk offer a safe alternative for dispersing Tear Gas while protecting personal property against fire and unnecessary damage.

“Get the bad guy, without burning down the neighborhood.”

This might be the only manufacturer around but would need to double check.

290 Shvaughn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:22:55pm

re: #287 engineer cat

list of countries by spending on education as a percentage of gdp

u.s. comes in 55th

On the other hand, here’s an infographic showing the per-student expenditures:

Infographic

291 EPR-radar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:23:19pm

re: #287 engineer cat

list of countries by spending on education as a percentage of gdp

u.s. comes in 55th

% of GDP seems like a funny metric. Some effort to normalize for population would seem to be needed.

Sudan is #1 on the list.

292 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:24:46pm

re: #289 Gus

There’s no particular reason to believe they were using those grenades. But according to one cop friend, pulling down a wall can start a fire even just from a pilot light or electric arcing.

294 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:26:03pm

re: #292 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

There’s no particular reason to believe they were using those grenades. But according to one cop friend, pulling down a wall can start a fire even just from a pilot light or electric arcing.

Yep. Would need a fire investigation which will take months. Dorner truthers will of course not believe anything that doesn’t match their suspicions.

295 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:26:26pm

Now I work for the LAPD.

296 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:27:29pm

re: #294 Gus

Yep. Would need a fire investigation which will take months. Dorner truthers will of course not believe anything that doesn’t match their suspicions.

The number of Doerner truthers— at the level of believing they intentionally set the fire to kill him— is going to be pretty small. There’s also probably quite a few people who think they did it to kill him and are glad they did.

297 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:29:08pm

re: #296 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The number of Doerner truthers— at the level of believing they intentionally set the fire to kill him— is going to be pretty small. There’s also probably quite a few people who think they did it to kill him and are glad they did.

I’ve got Dorner truther derangement syndrome. :D

298 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:29:18pm

re: #295 Gus

Now I work for the LAPD.

You obviously have no clue how tinfoil hats work.
It disrupts the user’s brainwaves. Which make it difficult for drones and sats to lock on.
It also makes them rather dumb.

299 Shvaughn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:29:27pm

re: #295 Gus

That @Progress_4_USA guy is a fucking idiot.

300 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:29:51pm

re: #291 EPR-radar

% of GDP seems like a funny metric. Some effort to normalize for population would seem to be needed.

Sudan is #1 on the list.

here’s a better one showing rankings on what i think is a big part of the problem - teacher’s salaries

u.s. teacher pay ranks 22nd relative to average workers with a college degree, compared to 27 other developed nations

301 simoom  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:30:00pm

[Link: e-ring.foreignpolicy.com…]

Democratic and Republican senators are still negotiating over the nomination of Chuck Hagel to be secretary of defense, pushing the start of floor debate mostly likely into this afternoon with a vote to come on Thursday.

The Pentagon badly wants a vote this week, in order to get Hagel confirmed in time to travel to next week’s meeting of NATO defense ministers in Brussels. There, Pentagon officials expect European and Afghan officials will press the SecDef to discuss details of the president’s plan to drawdown troops in Afghanistan by half, as announced in last night’s State of the Union Address.

302 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:30:11pm

re: #295 Gus

Among his victims, the guy killed two non-white twenty-somethings in California, which almost certainly means he killed two Democrats, quite possibly two progressives.

303 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:30:16pm

re: #299 Shvaughn

That @Progress_4_USA guy is a fucking idiot.

It appears that way.

304 EPR-radar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:31:10pm

re: #296 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The number of Doerner truthers— at the level of believing they intentionally set the fire to kill him— is going to be pretty small. There’s also probably quite a few people who think they did it to kill him and are glad they did.

Given the specific facts of this case, I’m pretty much indifferent to the distinction between accidental fire and deliberate fire. Doerner was going to get himself killed by the cops one way or another, so the sooner the better.

305 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:31:28pm

re: #297 Gus

I’ve got Dorner truther derangement syndrome. :D

Back away from the twitter…

Except for this guy:

306 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:32:03pm

Oh, it just got better.

307 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:32:07pm

re: #299 Shvaughn

That @Progress_4_USA guy is a fucking idiot.

Man, so many contradictions in his tweets.
What a dumbass.

308 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:32:53pm
309 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:34:45pm

Besides, Gus isn’t LAPD.
He flies FEMA drones with his brainwaves for the lulz.

310 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:35:18pm

re: #304 EPR-radar

Given the specific facts of this case, I’m pretty much indifferent to the distinction between accidental fire and deliberate fire. Doerner was going to get himself killed by the cops one way or another, so the sooner the better.

I kinda feel bad for the cabin now.

311 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:37:20pm

re: #309 Varek Raith

Besides, Gus isn’t LAPD.
He flies FEMA drones with his brainwaves for the lulz.

That Tweet of his of course qualifies as a death threat.

312 Shvaughn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:37:58pm

re: #310 wrenchwench

I kinda feel bad for the cabin now.

I’ve always had sympathy for the cabin owners (and people who used to live there) since my family watched on TV as our cabin burned down in the Lake Arrowhead fire of 2003.

I don’t really blame the cops for the fire; I just know what the feeling is like for the people who have memories of the cabin.

313 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:38:18pm

re: #308 Gus

Check it out. He’s all over my victim Tweet.

OK, he disappeared. Blocked and reported for spam. Fucking douche.

314 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:39:02pm

Or is it that I just can’t see him? I think that’s it.

315 Shvaughn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:39:25pm

re: #314 Gus

Or is it that I just can’t see him? I think that’s it.

I can still see him, so he must have blocked you.

316 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:39:26pm

It was a drone.

317 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:40:06pm

re: #315 Shvaughn

I can still see him, so he must have blocked you.

Nah, I just did. This guy won’t block me. He’s probably going to think about me for the rest of the day. :D

318 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:42:59pm

Now he’s retweeting Anon.
Hah.

319 Shvaughn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:43:34pm

re: #317 Gus

Nah, I just did. This guy won’t block me. He’s probably going to think about me for the rest of the day. :D

You’re probably right.

320 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:43:43pm

re: #310 wrenchwench

I kinda feel bad for the cabin now.

I don’t know about you guys, but what they are calling cabins, I’d call a house.

This is what I call a cabin.

321 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:44:33pm

The cabin was about 1800 square feet. Big cabin.

322 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:44:43pm

re: #318 Varek Raith

Now he’s retweeting Anon.
Hah.

Anon is a Dorner truther

323 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:47:23pm
324 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:48:57pm

re: #321 Charles Johnson

The cabin was about 1800 square feet. Big cabin.

I kinda feel that if it has central heat/air, it’s not a cabin.

325 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:50:04pm

re: #323 Gus

Military-Grade Remote Viewers Target IBM’s Nanophotonics Technology and Describe its Chief Obstacle and Patentable Solution

Lol.

326 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:50:27pm

re: #322 Gus

Anon is a Dorner truther

Anon has been circulating this fake CNN screenshot
Twitter Hoax Claims Body Fond In Burned Cabin Belonged To A Female, Not Christopher Dorner

327 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:54:02pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

Anon has been circulating this fake CNN screenshot
Twitter Hoax Claims Body Fond In Burned Cabin Belonged To A Female, Not Christopher Dorner

They have no credibility. Never did. I wonder if Teh Juice! are in the Dorner truther menu by now.

328 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:54:17pm

re: #164 Killgore Trout

…or did they?
/Just asking truther questions

/just asking myself, what interpretation did your downdingers get from this joke?

329 thedopefishlives  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:54:40pm

Evening Lizardim from the warm and slushy wild north country. One of my co-workers has a son in the same class as the kid who was shot in St. Paul by an unhinged gunman. It’s getting to the point where I think everybody in America could play Six Degrees of Gun Violence and find a link between themselves and someone who has been wounded or killed with a gun. Ugh. How go things on the front lines of the war on derp?

330 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:57:55pm

Here we go on the Oil drilling Media Merry-go-round:

State lawmakers propose new oil drilling tax

A debate that’s been raging now for several years in California is headed to the Legislature, as two Democratic lawmakers introduce legislation to impose an oil extraction tax, with the proceeds earmarked for higher education and state parks.

SB 241 by state Sen. Noreen Evans, D-Santa Rosa, and state Sen. Mark Leno, D-San Francisco, brings front and center a long simmering discussion about whether California should impose a tax on oil production similar to other states.

“California is the largest — and only — oil producing state in the nation that does not tax its vast oil resources,” said Evans in a written statement.

331 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 3:59:49pm

Heh:

332 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:00:36pm

re: #328 Achilles Tang

/just asking myself, what interpretation did your downdingers get from this joke?

The name of the poster!!

((I have the same “disease” at times!!!))

333 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:00:57pm

re: #331 Lidane

Heh:

Anything to distract from what he actually said!
/CNN

334 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:01:42pm

Hello everyone, I’m backing out of this site effective immediately. In a previous incarnation I was BatGuano and made some friends here (most of whom were either banned or left). In my current guise, I have met people I really respect. I won’t say who they are so that they won’t be embarrassed.
In short, I promise never to have another sock puppet here.

335 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:02:59pm

re: #334 EdDantes

Hello everyone, I’m backing out of this site effective immediately. In a previous incarnation I was BatGuano and made some friends here (most of whom were either banned or left). In my current guise, I have met people I really respect. I won’t say who they are so that they won’t be embarrassed.
In short, I promise never to have another sock puppet here.

Au Revoir, but why the “confession” and the departure??

336 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:03:29pm

re: #334 EdDantes

Are you flouncing? Why now?

337 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:05:19pm

re: #336 wrenchwench

Are you flouncing? Why now?

Pretty tame one by comparison to the usual

338 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:05:34pm

re: #106 Political Atheist

Those that enforce the law will always be thought of as goons by lawbreakers. It’s a given. One of the nicer things to come out of this has been local civil rights activists (one that served on the police Comission) stepping up and talking about how much improved LAPD has become in the last decade. Still a work in progress but they sought to debunk the accusation that things are just like the bad old days. No links, just an interview heard on 1070am news radio.

The LAPD did a great job of violating constitutional rights, due process and basic human dignity for an awful lot of people who were not law breakers. When you behave like an occupying army, then you shouldn’t wonder when the people you supposedly serve begin to hate you.

Sadly, this trend is not limited to LA. Reading the law enforcement comments at Policeone will make you want to gargle bleach at times, especially comments mocking the women who were wounded in their pick up truck last week by LAPD gunfire (One officer calling them barrio trash who won the lottery), or those targeting a North Carolina female student who was shot and badly injured by NYPD officers in a notorious incident where 9 bystanders were hit by gun fire from the officers (The cops at Policeone were especially nasty towards her, calling her a gold digging bitch and asking if she doesn’t understand that “sometimes shit happens” and she needs to get over it instead of whining about being shot)

Amazing that these people don’t realize that the rest of us can see how much they despise us when they write these things.

339 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:06:02pm

re: #335 sattv4u2

Conscience. I was pretending to be someone I was not.

340 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:06:12pm

re: #334 EdDantes

Hello everyone, I’m backing out of this site effective immediately. In a previous incarnation I was BatGuano and made some friends here (most of whom were either banned or left). In my current guise, I have met people I really respect. I won’t say who they are so that they won’t be embarrassed.
In short, I promise never to have another sock puppet here.

Why? You’ve been here for over 2 years.

341 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:06:13pm

re: #334 EdDantes

Take care and best of luck.

342 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:06:33pm

re: #334 EdDantes

Hello everyone, I’m backing out of this site effective immediately. In a previous incarnation I was BatGuano and made some friends here (most of whom were either banned or left). In my current guise, I have met people I really respect. I won’t say who they are so that they won’t be embarrassed.
In short, I promise never to have another sock puppet here.

Backing out? That’s a new one. Does it mean you keep the option to move forward?

343 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:06:34pm

re: #339 EdDantes

Conscience. I was pretending to be someone I was not.

Dude ,, it’s the INTERNET

DUH!!!!

/

344 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:07:26pm

re: #339 EdDantes

Conscience. I was pretending to be someone I was not.

I’m pretending to be someone I am.

345 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:07:59pm

At least you can all trust that I am truly a Sith Lord.

346 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:08:16pm

re: #344 wrenchwench

I’m pretending to be someone I am.

I give up. I’m actually with the LAPD. //

347 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:08:56pm

re: #334 EdDantes

Okay then. Not sure why you felt the need to do that, but props for manning up.

348 thedopefishlives  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:08:58pm

re: #345 Varek Raith

At least you can all trust that I am truly a Sith Lord.

I certainly hope so. We rely on your firepower to keep the wingnuts at bay.

349 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:09:34pm

re: #344 wrenchwench

I’m pretending to be someone I am.

I’m someone I’m pretending to be.

350 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:10:14pm

re: #344 wrenchwench

I’m pretending to be someone I am.

Sorry, but that position has already been filled

351 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:10:28pm

re: #349 Achilles Tang

I’m someone I’m pretending to be.

Who’s on 1st?

352 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:13:09pm

re: #343 sattv4u2

Dude ,, it’s the INTERNET

DUH!!!!

/

As if you’re who you say you are, Loki.

353 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:13:56pm

re: #277 Gus

Right. I was thinking about mandatory sentencing laws earlier WRT to cop hatred. Cops don’t make the laws. Sure, they arrest people for things like drugs but they’re not the ones who force judges into making minimal sentences. The anarchist types are a strange lot. You get the ones on the far-left and the far-right. I mean, not many moderate cop haters out there.

My wife was sexually harassed constantly by a Glynn county police officer who was the brother of the sheriff. The guy was untouchable and he knew it, so he would come in to the store where she worked and oggle her breasts and try to get her to agree to sex. He offered her a place of her own and a spending account (you have to wonder where he was getting the money, eh?). Another cop in the same city (and the same time) was a rapist who got caught after he abducted a woman and handcuffed her to a bad and raped her, then threatened to have her husband killed if she talked.

In any event, my wife really, really hates cops. None of them would stand up for her when her former husband beat her half to death, and they were more interested in staring at her tits.

354 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:13:56pm

re: #346 Gus

I give up. I’m actually with the LAPD. //

Colorado LAPDancers?

355 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:16:18pm

re: #352 b_sharp

As if you’re who you say you are, Loki.

What can I say

I’m charmed !!

Image: productimage-picture-loki-charms-11731.png

356 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:17:12pm

re: #340 Gus

Why? You’ve been here for over 2 years.

About three years. I have withheld my tongue during that time because of the consequences.

357 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:17:15pm

And on that note, the long quiet drive to work beckons

358 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:18:08pm

re: #356 EdDantes

About three years. I have withheld my tongue during that time because of the consequences.

So did it gain interest while it was withheld?

359 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:18:33pm

re: #357 sattv4u2

Have a good day. I have great respect for you.

360 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:18:41pm

re: #350 sattv4u2

Sorry, but that position has already been filled

Then I must be someone pretending to be me.

361 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:18:41pm

re: #356 EdDantes

About three years. I have withheld my tongue during that time because of the consequences.

Speak your mind, consequences be damned

I do. The only thing I make sure I don’t do (well, two things actually) is link to objectionable sites and name call/ berate another Lizard

362 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:19:20pm

re: #351 sattv4u2

Who’s on 1st?

God.

363 thedopefishlives  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:19:25pm

I’m Spartacus.

364 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:19:35pm

re: #359 EdDantes

Have a good day. I have great respect for you.

I urge you to rethink and stay

((and urge you to rethink the “great respect”,, trust me,, I KNOW me !!!))
//

365 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:20:00pm

re: #341 Killgore Trout

Your’e one the good ones.

366 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:20:03pm

re: #362 Achilles Tang

God.

I figured him for a power hitter, not a singles hitter

367 thedopefishlives  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:20:15pm

re: #363 Ghost of a Dopefish

I’m Spartacus.

See?

368 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:20:51pm

re: #356 EdDantes

About three years. I have withheld my tongue during that time because of the consequences.

I take it you are still backing up, albeit slowly.

369 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:21:18pm

re: #356 EdDantes

About three years. I have withheld my tongue during that time because of the consequences.

OK, better to leave on a high(er) note then. I bite my tongue a lot of times. Sometimes it doesn’t work.

370 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:21:42pm

BBL (after the long quiet drive in to work)

371 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:21:49pm
372 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:21:49pm

re: #361 sattv4u2

Speak your mind, consequences be damned

I do. The only thing I make sure I don’t do (well, two things actually) is link to objectionable sites and name call/ berate another Lizard

You’re just a poopyhead.

373 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:22:19pm

re: #369 Gus

OK, better to leave on a high(er) note then. I bite my tongue a lot of times. Sometimes it doesn’t work.

How can you screw up biting your own tongue!?!?!
/

374 sattv4u2  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:22:56pm

re: #372 b_sharp

You’re just a poopyhead.

Thats OLD GRUMPY poopyhead to you

AND GET OFF MY LAWN

375 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:24:11pm

re: #368 Achilles Tang

Yes I am backing up slowly. I am trying to come clean and I do not want to take a cheap shot at the owner of this site.

376 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:25:17pm

re: #334 EdDantes

Hello everyone, I’m backing out of this site effective immediately. In a previous incarnation I was BatGuano…

Um, OK, if that’s what you feel you need to do.

(I knew, by the way.)

377 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:25:54pm

re: #375 EdDantes

Yes I am backing up slowly. I am trying to come clean and I do not want to take a cheap shot at the owner of this site.

I think you just did.

378 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:26:24pm

re: #376 Charles Johnson

Of course you did.

379 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:27:11pm

Some people are respected by a sock puppet.

am I getting this correctly?

380 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:27:14pm

re: #329 Ghost of a Dopefish

Evening Lizardim from the warm and slushy wild north country. One of my co-workers has a son in the same class as the kid who was shot in St. Paul by an unhinged gunman. It’s getting to the point where I think everybody in America could play Six Degrees of Gun Violence and find a link between themselves and someone who has been wounded or killed with a gun. Ugh. How go things on the front lines of the war on derp?

It certainly seems like we’re in the midst of a huge upswing in gun violence, huh. The question is why does it seem like that.

The national homicide rate for 2011 was 4.8 per 100,000 citizens — less than half of what it was in the early years of the Great Depression, when it peaked before falling precipitously before World War II. The peak in modern times of 10.2 was in 1980, as recorded by national criminal statistics.

“We’re at as low a place as we’ve been in the past 100 years,” says Randolph Roth, professor of history at Ohio State University and author of this year’s “American Homicide,” a landmark study of the history of killing in the United States. “The rate oscillates between about 5 and 9 [per 100,000], sometimes a little higher or lower, and we’re right at the bottom end of that oscillation.”

Last year’s rate was the lowest of any year since 1963, when the rate was 4.6, according to the Uniform Crime Reports compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Don’t relax quite yet: Americans still kill one another at a much higher rate than do citizens of other wealthy nations.

“By international standards, we never really get to ‘low,’ ” Roth says.

Okay, so that’s a valid point, that we probably should be judging ourselves according to other first world, wealthy, prosperous, educated nations, and we don’t. However shouldn’t we also be questioning why the media is pushing the idea that we’re in the midst of an epidemic now, instead of when we actually were like in the seventies and eighties? Instead we’re at record lows and it’s somehow perfectly reasonable for people to argue according to how things seem vs. how they actually are.

If it’s the mass shooting incidents, especially those involving schools then we should be prepared to ask why there weren’t any when the government was dumping millions of assault and battle rifles on the civilian market and allowing them to be purchased via mail order.

One thing we as a society especially are not talking about is the reportedly disproportionate number of active shooters who were on SSRIs and other antidepressant medications at the time of their killing sprees. These now widely prescribed classes of drugs weren’t invented until the 1970’s and if we’re really interested in doing something about this phenomenon we owe it to ourselves to at least honestly examine their association with it. Certainly there were depressed people, people with attention deficit disorder, etc before the drugs were invented, yet for some reason it’s difficult if neigh impossible to find a single prior record of anybody shooting up a school. I understand however why the media is going to be highly reluctant to do much investigation in the matter:

In the US, drug companies spend $19 billion a year on promotions.[18] Advertising is common in healthcare journals as well as through more mainstream media routes. In some countries, notably the US, they are allowed to advertise directly to the general public.

381 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:28:08pm

re: #377 Charles Johnson

No I did not!

382 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:28:31pm

re: #380 goddamnedfrank

However shouldn’t we also be questioning why the media is pushing the idea that we’re in the midst of an epidemic now,

$$$$$$

383 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:29:39pm

re: #375 EdDantes

Yes I am backing up slowly. I am trying to come clean and I do not want to take a cheap shot at the owner of this site.

You haven’t suddenly, by chance, been born again or something like that?

384 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:30:34pm

re: #339 EdDantes

Conscience. I was pretending to be someone I was not.

i will take this opportunity to admit that i am not really a deterministic pushdown automaton

385 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:31:52pm

Apparently “effective immediately” means something other than what I thought it did.

386 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:31:59pm

re: #384 engineer cat

i will take this opportunity to admit that i am not really a deterministic pushdown automaton

I thought you were a feline overlord with a sliderule? no?

387 thedopefishlives  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:32:09pm

I’m torn between grabbing the popcorn and firing up the troll barbecue.

388 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:32:34pm

re: #377 Charles Johnson

Mr Johnson, I was trying to as I said back out slowly, come clean and let everyone know who I am. I did not take a shot at you nor did I intend to.

389 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:32:49pm

Come on guys. Let’s just leave it at that and move on. Please.

390 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:33:18pm

When I flounce, there will be music.

391 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:34:12pm

re: #388 EdDantes

Mr Johnson, I was trying to as I said back out slowly, come clean and let everyone know who I am. I did not take a shot at you nor did I intend to.

So do so, log out and don’t come back.

392 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:35:10pm

re: #387 Spartacus

I’m torn between grabbing the popcorn and firing up the troll barbecue.

Throw some popcorn on the barbecue. Oh, wait. You’d have to fire it up first anyway.

393 Lidane  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:35:39pm

Since it’s almost Valentine’s Day, a bit of levity:

Image: puritancards.jpg

394 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:37:54pm

re: #383 Achilles Tang

No. I just decided to come clean and say who I am.

395 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:40:24pm

re: #394 EdDantes

No. I just decided to come clean and say who I am.

Saying you’re Bat Guano sure doesn’t sound like coming clean. /heh

If Charles already knew and didn’t ban you before this, are you leaving anyway?

396 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:40:39pm

re: #334 EdDantes

Hello everyone, I’m backing out of this site effective immediately.

but, I’ll stick around and argue a while.

397 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:42:07pm

Hell. Destro is still around.

398 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:43:29pm

re: #380 goddamnedfrank

There are millions of people on anti depressants and other drugs, and a handful of mass murders. Statistically that connection is not significant as a predictor and impossible to be a controlling factor, even if every mass murderer was found to be on such drugs.

Media coverage could be a factor, given the infamy that such people seek, and was not as instantaneous a few generations ago, but that also cannot be controlled or eliminated.

We are left with the simple, trivial, explanation that as as long as weapons are easily accessible and available, we will always have such massacres, and thousands of less spectacular small killings which we seem prepared to live with.

399 thedopefishlives  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:43:33pm

re: #397 Gus

Hell. Destro is still around.

Gus, I love your avatar, my friend.

400 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:44:14pm

re: #385 goddamnedfrank

Apparently “effective immediately” means something other than what I thought it did.

That only applies when walking forward, not backwards.

401 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:44:16pm

re: #399 Spartacus

Gus, I love your avatar, my friend.

Thanks. Made it myself with some Elmer’s glue and scissors.

402 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:44:59pm

Goodnighre: #395 wrenchwench

If Charles leaves my account open I might be back. But then everyone will know and I wont be deceiving anyone.

403 lawhawk  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:45:07pm
404 Shvaughn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:46:02pm

I don’t understand the point of admitting who you are and saying you’re leaving immediately, and then hanging around to talk about how you’re leaving immediately.

405 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:46:13pm

re: #396 FemNaziBitch

I’m not arguing. I will answer questions.

406 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:48:00pm

re: #401 Gus

Thanks. Made it myself with some Elmer’s glue and scissors.

Have you actually watched that History Channel bunk more than once?

407 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:48:26pm

re: #404 Shvaughn

I don’t understand the point of admitting who you are and saying you’re leaving immediately, and then hanging around to talk about how you’re leaving immediately.

Should I answer you or leave immediately?

408 wrenchwench  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:49:00pm

re: #402 EdDantes

Goodnigh

If Charles leaves my account open I might be back. But then everyone will know and I wont be deceiving anyone.

Inasmuch as we know who “Bat Guano” is. Seems a little silly, no offense intended.

re: #405 EdDantes

I’m not arguing. I will answer questions.

My question, again, is ‘why now?’

409 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:49:06pm

re: #386 FemNaziBitch

I thought you were a feline overlord with a sliderule? no?

i am definitely a fuzzy mammal that periodically emits java code

410 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:50:02pm

re: #401 Gus

Thanks. Made it myself with some Elmer’s glue and scissors.

You didn’t dig it up at Area 51?

411 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:50:42pm

re: #406 Achilles Tang

Have you actually watched that History Channel bunk more than once?

Maybe a clip on Youtube.

412 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:51:16pm

re: #409 engineer cat

i am definitely a fuzzy mammal that periodically emits java code

Emits? Or up chucks?

413 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:52:16pm

re: #405 EdDantes

I’m not arguing. I will answer questions.

Answer questions about going backwards?

Most of us are now prepared to move on, forwards. You have repented, confessed, resigned your pretense which nobody gave a damn about anyway.

Either shut the door on your way out, or pretend this issue is now over, as Charles seems to do, and think of something else to talk about.

414 Shvaughn  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:53:02pm

re: #407 EdDantes

Should I answer you or leave immediately?

I’m not gonna tell you what to do. I’m just wondering why you are doing things this way.

415 engineer cat  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:53:28pm

re: #412 b_sharp

Emits? Or up chucks?

that is determined at code review time

416 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:54:00pm

re: #413 Achilles Tang

Answer questions about going backwards?

Most of us are now prepared to move on, forwards. You have repented, confessed, resigned your pretense which nobody gave a damn about anyway.

Either shut the door on your way out, or pretend this issue is now over, as Charles seems to do, and think of something else to talk about.

Exactly.

417 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:54:55pm

re: #407 EdDantes

Should I answer you or leave immediately?

That really is your choice, since none of us are forcing you out. You can stick around and try to contribute, or you can go where you feel free to be yourself.

418 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:55:12pm

re: #407 EdDantes

Should I answer you or leave immediately?

You should do what you say you are going to do.

419 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:55:36pm

bbl

420 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:56:05pm

re: #415 engineer cat

that is determined at code review time

Just don’t throw an exception without checking.

421 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:57:50pm

LGF pretty much has one general rule so to speak. Doesn’t matter if you’re to the left or right: don’t be a douche.

422 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:58:09pm

re: #414 Shvaughn

I’m not gonna tell you what to do. I’m just wondering why you are doing things this way.

I am just being honest. Some lizards had questions and I was trying to answer them.

423 Varek Raith  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 4:58:12pm

re: #407 EdDantes

Should I answer you or leave immediately?

Look, just stay.
Simple!
:)

424 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:03:17pm

re: #398 Achilles Tang

There are millions of people on anti depressants and other drugs, and a handful of mass murders. Statistically that connection is not significant as a predictor and impossible to be a controlling factor, even if every mass murderer was found to be on such drugs.

You’ve just argued with a straight face that if you feed a drug to a large enough population that it somehow makes a known side effect / association with homicidal ideation “not significant,” simply because only a small number of patients actually follow through.

Also, keep in mind that with regard to school shootings, we’re talking about a phenomenon that doesn’t actually have seemed to exist prior to the invention and widespread use of the drugs themselves. I don’t think one can simply wave that away as statistical insignificance.

425 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:04:28pm

re: #423 Varek Raith

If I go there will be trouble,
and if I stay it will be double.

426 EdDantes  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:05:46pm

re: #425 EdDantes

It’s a joke!

427 Gus  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:06:17pm

re: #426 EdDantes

It’s a joke!

I figured that.

428 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:07:32pm

re: #424 goddamnedfrank

You’ve just argued with a straight face that if you feed a drug to a large enough population that it somehow makes a known side effect / association with homicidal ideation “not significant,” simply because only a small number of patients actually follow through.

Also, keep in mind that with regard to school shootings, we’re talking about a phenomenon that doesn’t actually have seemed to exist prior to the invention and widespread use of the drugs themselves. I don’t think one can simply wave that away as statistical insignificance.

You’re trying to force a correlation.

429 darthstar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:08:37pm

re: #320 FemNaziBitch

I don’t know about you guys, but what they are calling cabins, I’d call a house.

This is what I call a cabin.

Our ski cabin really does feel like a cabin. Yes, it has five bedrooms and a sauna, but overall it’s quite rustic inside and definitely has a cabin feel to it. We’d love to buy it if it ever goes on the market though…there’s so much potential in it and the location is breathtaking.

430 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:20:20pm

re: #428 b_sharp

You’re trying to force a correlation.

No, I’m observing that one appears to exist. The known side effects are real, listed right on the label, “violent behaviors.” I understand people’s desires not to be stigmatized if they’re taking such drugs, just like gun owners don’t like being stigmatized simply for owning guns. Can you find a single documented mass school shooting before the invention of SSRI’s, or where the shooter(s) have been shown not to be on such psychoactive medication? I can’t, and both mental illness and widespread semi automatic gun ownership certainly predates the invention of this class of drugs, so it’s not like means and opportunity didn’t exist before.

431 Buck  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:24:53pm

re: #430 goddamnedfrank

Altona schoolhouse shooting October 10, 1902

432 Buck  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:30:40pm

re: #430 goddamnedfrank

Can you find a single documented mass school shooting before the invention of SSRI’s, or where the shooter(s) have been shown not to be on such psychoactive medication?

What year are you using for the invention of SSRI’s? I think Fluoxetine was the first to be approved for commercial use by the FDA in 1988.

Would that work for you?

433 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:33:56pm

re: #424 goddamnedfrank

You’ve just argued with a straight face that if you feed a drug to a large enough population that it somehow makes a known side effect / association with homicidal ideation “not significant,” simply because only a small number of patients actually follow through.

Also, keep in mind that with regard to school shootings, we’re talking about a phenomenon that doesn’t actually have seemed to exist prior to the invention and widespread use of the drugs themselves. I don’t think one can simply wave that away as statistical insignificance.

We know that people who commit mass murder have mental problems of some sort, essentially by self definition. That they may also be on drugs is hardly surprising, nor the cause or there would be many many more than there are.

I did not say what you allege, and I said several things more.

434 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:40:28pm

re: #432 Buck

What year are you using for the invention of SSRI’s? I think Fluoxetine was the first to be approved for commercial use by the FDA in 1988.

Would that work for you?

Zimelidine, first approved and hit the market in 1982.

435 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:44:18pm

re: #430 goddamnedfrank

No, I’m observing that one appears to exist. The known side effects are real, listed right on the label, “violent behaviors.” I understand people’s desires not to be stigmatized if they’re taking such drugs, just like gun owners don’t like being stigmatized simply for owning guns. Can you find a single documented mass school shooting before the invention of SSRI’s, or where the shooter(s) have been shown not to be on such psychoactive medication? I can’t, and both mental illness and widespread semi automatic gun ownership certainly predates the invention of this class of drugs, so it’s not like means and opportunity didn’t exist before.

What’s the correlation between, let’s say people with bipolar disease not on meds and these events? How about untreated schizophrenia, or another psychosis and these events? What’s the correlation between these events and family abuse, or bullying in schools?

Like I said, you’re trying to force a correlation, much like those who linked shark cartilage and cancer.

436 Buck  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:47:25pm

re: #434 goddamnedfrank

Zimelidine, first approved and hit the market in 1982.

No problem, I just wanted to get that date out there so we all knew where you were drawing a line.

January 29, 1979: San Diego, California Brenda Ann Spencer opens fire on Grover Cleveland Elementary School from the window of her home across the street, killing 2 adults and wounding 9 others, 8 of whom were children

May 28, 1975: The Brampton Centennial Secondary School massacre was a school shooting, which occurred at Brampton Centennial Secondary School in Brampton, Ontario. 16-year-old gunman Michael Slobodian shot and killed a fellow student, a teacher and injured 13 other students before turning the gun on himself and committing suicide in a school hallway.

December 30, 1974: Olean, New York Regents scholar Anthony Barbaro, 17, armed with a rifle and shotgun, kills three adults and wounds 11 others at his high school, which was closed for the Christmas holiday. Barbaro was reportedly a loner who kept a diary describing several “battle plans” for his attack on the school.

437 celticdragon  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:47:57pm

re: #390 b_sharp

When I flounce, there will be music.

And dancing. I insist on dancing at any respectable flounce.

438 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:49:44pm

re: #437 celticdragon

And dancing. I insist on dancing at any respectable flounce.

I suck at dancing.

439 EPR-radar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 5:59:03pm

re: #435 b_sharp

Like I said, you’re trying to force a correlation, much like those who linked shark cartilage and cancer.

To be a bit nitpicky, the correlation, if established as real, is a brute fact. The substantive issue here is going from correlation to causation, which is a treacherous but not impossible argument.

440 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:10:28pm

re: #439 EPR-radar

To be a bit nitpicky, the correlation, if established as real, is a brute fact. The substantive issue here is going from correlation to causation, which is a treacherous but not impossible argument.

My point is that you can come up with insignificant correlations with almost any two events within the same domain. Even without worrying about causation which as you say takes a lot more than simple correlation, significance has to be measured at a reasonable level before you even worry about linking cause.

441 EPR-radar  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:13:32pm

re: #440 b_sharp

My point is that you can come up with insignificant correlations with almost any two events within the same domain. Even without worrying about causation which as you say takes a lot more than simple correlation, significance has to be measured at a reasonable level before you even worry about linking cause.

Fair point. It can be taken further, I think. Mass shootings are rare events, so it will be very difficult to show statistically significant correlations of such shootings with anything else because the number of data points will be small.

442 Buck  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:40:27pm

re: #434 goddamnedfrank

Zimelidine, first approved and hit the market in 1982.

Zimelidine was banned pretty soon after that release AND I can’t find anywhere that says a side effect of Zimelidine was Homicidal ideation (as you infer).

With that and you now have a good number of examples of school shootings BEFORE the invention of SSRI’s. Ready to admit that the correlation you are putting forward might be forced on your part?

443 b_sharp  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 6:55:26pm

re: #441 EPR-radar

Fair point. It can be taken further, I think. Mass shootings are rare events, so it will be very difficult to show statistically significant correlations of such shootings with anything else because the number of data points will be small.

Without determining that there was use of SSRIs by the murderers the whole idea of correlation is a waste of time. There is a problem with random correlations being made by the purveyors of ‘alternative’ medicine and naturalistic cures convincing the unwary there is some validity to them. Even highly intelligent people are being sucked into correlation is a cure because numbers without context are given as evidence. This is just another aspect of that mentality.

444 Robert O.  Wed, Feb 13, 2013 8:58:34pm

Of gravest concern to me was that TWO civilian vehicles (supposedly looking like the suspect car but was not even such) were shot at by the police, and at least one person is seriously injured. I am usually as pro-authority and pro-police as anyone. But this isn’t remotely excusable, even if the police have reasons to be fearful themselves. As trained protectors of the public, we expect better from the police than shoot-first-ask-later. Certainly, the handling of this does nothing to increase the public’s faith in the system.


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