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LA Times: Latest Details on Dorner Shootout and Incendiary Devices

Questions remain
Crime • Views: 23,073

Here’s the Los Angeles Times’ latest report on the incendiary gas canisters that ended the standoff with mass-murdering ex-cop Christopher Dorner: In Wake of Dorner Shootout, Questions Over Use of ‘The Burner’.

Dorner, the fired Los Angeles cop suspected of killing four people in a campaign of revenge, had been holed up in a cabin near Big Bear Lake for hours, trading gunfire with San Bernardino County sheriff’s deputies. Repeated calls over a loudspeaker for him to surrender went ignored. Attempts to flush him out with tear gas led nowhere.

Wanting to end the standoff before nightfall, members of the sheriff’s SWAT unit enacted a plan they had devised for a final assault on the cabin, according to law enforcement sources. An officer drove a demolition vehicle up to the building and methodically tore down most of its walls, the sources said.

With the cabin’s interior exposed, the officer got on the radio to others awaiting his order. “We’re going to go forward with the plan, with the burner,” the unidentified officer said, according to a recording of police radio transmissions reviewed by The Times.

The burner” was shorthand for a grenade-like canister containing a more powerful type of tear gas than had been used earlier. Police use the nickname because of the intense heat the device gives off, which often causes a fire.

“Seven burners deployed,” another officer responded several seconds later, according to the transmission which has circulated widely among law enforcement officials. “And we have a fire.”

Within minutes the cabin was fully engulfed in flames, ending a dramatic manhunt that captivated the nation.

The SWAT radio transmission, in addition to the comments of at least one officer who earlier in the gun battle could be heard by a TV reporter calling for the cabin to be burned down, have raised questions as to whether authorities intended to end the standoff by setting the structure on fire. San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon at a Wednesday press conference adamantly denied that was the intent. But the department on Thursday declined to answer further questions about the standoff.

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91 comments

1 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:50:37pm

I’d feel really bad about this normally, but, meh, I don’t care. The man obviously knew he was dead when he killed the couple in the parking structure and taunted her dad. What an evil fuck.

2 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:51:30pm

I guess the question is given that the burner in question was described as more powerful and known to cause fires, were 7 really needed to subdue Dorner or were they hoping they could start a fire and say “oops” about it later?

I’m normally very pro-LE, and I’m glad Dorner got taken down, but this whole thing stinks.

3 stabby  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:53:07pm

Sounds like a deniable way to start a fire.

No one is surprised right?

4 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:53:44pm

re: #2 Kragar (Antichrist )

I guess the question is given that the burner in question was described as more powerful and known to cause fires, were 7 really needed to subdue Dorner or were they hoping they could start a fire and say “oops” about it later?

I’m normally very pro-LE, and I’m glad Dorner got taken down, but this whole thing stinks.

Agreed, I think it’ll be awhile before all the questions on this are answered. And I’m sure, before it’s all over, there’s going to be plenty of accusations of cover-ups and conduct unbecoming leveled.

5 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:54:09pm

Cue the passive-aggressive folks who gonna claim that burners aren’t incendiary because … whatever … and therefore anyone asking questions is pro-Dorner and in favor of cop killing.

6 stabby  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:54:49pm

re: #2 Kragar (Antichrist )

They were no doubt selected, even bought because they’re likely to cause a fire.

7 Varek Raith  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:55:04pm

re: #5 Shvaughn

Cue the passive-aggressive folks who gonna claim that burners aren’t incendiary because … whatever … and therefore anyone asking questions is pro-Dorner and in favor of cop killing.

And rapes and stabbings.
/

8 austin_blue  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:55:18pm

re: #3 stabby

Sounds like a deniable way to start a fire.

No one is surprised right?

Nope. Two dead cops and a cop’s daughter? Pfft. The roof is on fire, burn the motherfucker down.

9 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:59:05pm

I remember there being talk the he tried to leave the cabin, but was forced back in by gunfire. I’m curious if there’s any validity to that. If true, I’d consider that pretty damning against the LEOs there.

10 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 7:59:43pm

When The Patriots Rise Up

I don’t want to litigate the meaning of the Second Amendment, and for the purposes of this post, I’ll accept that the above is, in fact, the purpose of the Second Amendment. In fact, I’ll even lay out the principles of the argument:

1) The Second Amendment is a constitutional guarantee against tyrannical government overreach.
2) The Second Amendment justifies armed, violent rebellion against the government when the government intrudes on the rights of its citizens.
3) Those who engage in that armed, violent rebellion will be justified by their opposition to the previously mentioned tyrannical overreach.

Let’s assume all of that’s true. The question, then, isn’t whether we should regulate guns…the question is how, when you start shooting, we determine whether you’re a constitutionally justified patriot or Chris Dorner.

The tyrannical government argument rests on the assumption that everyone will know and understand when tyranny is occurring. Reading Dorner’s manifesto, it’s clear that he intends to strike out against the injustice and corruption he believes pervades the LAPD. One might even call it tyranny, if one were so inclined.

However, Dorner is a murderer, unjustified even by his legitimate grievances to take the lives of innocent people. Generally, that’s how these things go – angry anti-government types arm themselves against whatever set of grievances they have, and if and when they take action, their meticulous offense at tyranny is exposed as largely narcissistic rage.

11 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:00:48pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I remember there being talk the he tried to leave the cabin, but was forced back in by gunfire. I’m curious if there’s any validity to that. If true, I’d consider that pretty damning against the LEOs there.

I think that would depend on whether he came out hands in the air intending to surrender or gun drawn and hunting for a target.

13 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:02:00pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I remember there being talk the he tried to leave the cabin, but was forced back in by gunfire. I’m curious if there’s any validity to that. If true, I’d consider that pretty damning against the LEOs there.

I’m not convinced that actually happened.

14 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:02:05pm

re: #1 austin_blue

I’d feel really bad about this normally, but, meh, I don’t care. The man obviously knew he was dead when he killed the couple in the parking structure and taunted her dad. What an evil fuck.

I do care, if only because this is going to be compared to Waco fairly soon. I fully expect Alex Jones to make the comparison himself.

Following close on the heels of that comparison will be the allegation that Dorner was killed rather than arrested in order to silence him and avoid him spilling open the LAPD’s bag of secrets. And unfortunately, I find that second conspiracy theory plausible. I don’t think its true, but it is a possibility.

15 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:02:15pm

re: #11 Kragar (Antichrist )

I think that would depend on whether he came out hands in the air intending to surrender or gun drawn and hunting for a target.

Hence the need to confirm if its true. If the man was attempting to escape a burning building and was forced back in by gunfire, he might have seen no chance at escape and blown his own brains out rather than burn to death.

16 stabby  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:02:28pm

Meh given that he targeted not only his “enemies” but a daughter, I think that, frankly, anyone should have been allowed to shoot him in the street. He didn’t deserve to live or to waste anyone’s money or time on a trial.

17 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:03:09pm

Chris who?

18 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:03:40pm

re: #13 Shvaughn

I’m not convinced that actually happened.

I heard it, or that they planned to keep him pinned down, but never heard it confirmed whether it actually happened or not. If it did happen, see my #11.

19 stabby  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:04:09pm

Feel the same way about terrorists. A bullet is as much trouble as we owe them.

20 blueraven  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:05:17pm

re: #16 stabby

Meh given that he targeted not only his “enemies” but a daughter, I think that, frankly, anyone should have been allowed to shoot him in the street. He didn’t deserve to live or to waste anyone’s money or time on a trial.

Umm..we have due process for a reason
Yes he was scum, but we cant have citizens acting as judge and jury.

21 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:05:59pm

re: #20 blueraven

Umm..we have due process for a reason
Yes he was scum, but we cant have citizens acting as judge and jury.

Now street Judges, on the other hand…

//

22 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:06:46pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

Is This the First Christopher Dorner Tribute Tattoo?

So what, who cares?

Tattoos are stupid anyway.

23 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:07:41pm

re: #17 Gus

Chris who?

You know, he’s the guy they tried to assassinate with drones. Later they tried non-lethal tear gas and talked about it on the radio using the the generic term “burners”. They finally switched to serious CS gas canisters and he shot himself in the head. Just Obama’s police state dispensing ketchup.

24 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:07:52pm

“Alleged” cop killer. //

25 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:08:20pm

re: #19 stabby

Feel the same way about terrorists. A bullet is as much trouble as we owe them.

I dunno, I’m a big fan of due process. Why aren’t you?

26 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:08:47pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

You know, he’s the guy they tried to assassinate with drones. Later they tried non-lethal tear gas and talked about it on the radio using the the generic term “burners”. They finally switched to serious CS gas canisters and he shot himself in the head. Just Obama’s police state dispensing ketchup.

Oh yeah. I forgot about that drone hoax and hysteria that follow on the internets. They’re coming after Chris Dorner with drones and you’re next!!!

27 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:09:14pm

re: #25 Shvaughn

I dunno, I’m a big fan of due process. Why aren’t you?

Part of that process involves the suspect giving up to the police.

28 Shvaughn  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:11:12pm

re: #27 Gus

Part of that process involves the suspect giving up to the police.

Well, I’m not talking about Dorner specifically, but rather addressing stabby’s statements that all we owe terrorists is a bullet (and not due process).

29 stabby  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:11:26pm

re: #25 Shvaughn

Well I generally am in the case of criminals. But not in the case of people whose goal is to kill the innocent en-mass. In that case due process can be as unrealistic as it is in a war.

In Dorner’s case I was really making a moral statement not a policy statement. I don’t think it’s a great idea that anyone could execute him though if his rampage got out of hand, that would have been de-facto true anyway. I was saying that morally he’d given up any rights by deliberately killing the innocent.

30 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:11:59pm

re: #19 stabby

Feel the same way about terrorists. A bullet is as much trouble as we owe them.

I had considered him a generic nut until recently but enough people consider him to have a valid social/political position that I think he can move into the terrorist category. Although I do find it interesting what Tim McVeigh or Mohammed Atta thought, I don’t really think their actions are a cause to reflect on my own views. But if enough people take his agenda seriously then it becomes a social movement.

31 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:12:50pm

re: #29 stabby

Well I generally am in the case of criminals. But not in the case of people whose goal is to kill the innocent en-mass. In that case due process can be as unrealistic as it is in a war.

In Dorner’s case I was really making a moral statement not a policy statement. I don’t think it’s a great idea that anyone could execute him though if his rampage got out of hand, that would have been de-facto true anyway. I was saying that morally he’d given up any rights by deliberately killing the innocent.

That’s a rather blurry line. If my neighbor were considering setting off a car bomb in a market, would kicking down his door and summarily executing him be okay?

32 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:12:55pm

re: #28 Shvaughn

Well, I’m not talking about Dorner specifically, but rather addressing stabby’s statements that all we owe terrorists is a bullet (and not due process).

Oh, well, yeah. I would have been perfectly happy if Dorner gave up. Shit happens when you murder 3 people and on the very same day murdering one more local deputy and injuring another (who is still in the hospital) while continuing to fire through from after writing a crazed manifesto promising to kill, kill, kill. Otherwise, “come out with your hands up!” Take it from there.

33 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:14:40pm

Warning, do not try thing from a cabin you just holed up in.

//

34 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:15:07pm

Shit, the cabin’s on fire. How did that happen?

//

35 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:17:02pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I had considered him a generic nut until recently but enough people consider him to have a valid social/political position that I think he can move into the terrorist category. Although I do find it interesting what Tim McVeigh or Mohammed Atta thought, I don’t really think their actions are a cause to reflect on my own views. But if enough people take his agenda seriously then it becomes a social movement.

Things nobody said ever: “That Anders Brevik fellow seemed really upset, maybe he has a valid point and was treated unfairly”
Not even Pam Geller is that stupid.

36 stabby  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:17:33pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

That’s a rather blurry line. If my neighbor were considering setting off a car bomb in a market, would kicking down his door and summarily executing him be okay?

The summary execution part sounds unnecessary given that he’s in THIS country. If we can break his door down we can do it and try to capture.

But we have a policy of just killing terrorists in countries like Pakistan for some practical reasons.

37 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:17:50pm

re: #35 Killgore Trout

Things nobody said ever: “That Anders Brevik fellow seemed really upset, maybe he has a valid point and was treated unfairly”
Not even Pam Geller is that stupid.

Charles Manson seemed upset and had a very bad childhood.

38 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:18:02pm

You know who else had a bad childhood?

39 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:18:48pm

re: #37 Gus

Charles Manson seemed upset and had a very bad childhood.

Perhaps we should reflect seriously on his theories about the upcoming race wars.
/

40 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:19:29pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Perhaps we should reflect seriously on his theories about the upcoming race wars.
/

They attacked us on 9/11 because we were mean to them.

//

41 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:21:21pm

Okay, we get it, Dorner was a irredeemable monster and any allegations made by him are totally baseless.

You two ‘bout finished?

42 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:21:32pm

re: #38 Gus

You know who else had a bad childhood?

Jesus?

43 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:21:34pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

You know, he’s the guy they tried to assassinate with drones. Later they tried non-lethal tear gas and talked about it on the radio using the the generic term “burners”. They finally switched to serious CS gas canisters and he shot himself in the head. Just Obama’s police state dispensing ketchup.

Hey, so did you ever come up with a source for your claim that ‘burners’ meant specifically the burn-safe cannisters, or have you now switched your tune on that? Seems like you now understand it’s a generic term for tear gas grenades because they’re burning shit.

44 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:22:10pm

re: #41 Targetpractice

Okay, we get it, Dorner was a irredeemable monster and any allegations made by him are totally baseless.

You two ‘bout finished?

No. No one ever said that there isn’t a problem with the LAPD.

45 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:25:41pm

re: #44 Gus

No. No one ever said that there isn’t a problem with the LAPD.

Okay, so then are we allowed the question the circumstances of his demise in that context? Or is suggesting that the LAPD might have had a reason to want him dead tantamount to trying to canonize him?

46 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:27:08pm

re: #38 Gus

You know who else had a bad childhood?

You know who else was a murdering nut who shot himself in the head instead of being captured and standing a fair trial and also retains a cult following to this day?

47 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:27:33pm

re: #46 Killgore Trout

You know who else was a murdering nut who shot himself in the head instead of being captured and standing a fair trial and also retains a cult following to this day?

Hitler.

48 stabby  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:27:47pm

re: #46 Killgore Trout

Glen Beck?

Ok not yet, but I can dream.

49 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:29:14pm

re: #47 Gus

Hitler.

I was thinking about Arnold Smith from Topeka but now that you mention it that Hitler guy rings a bell too.

50 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:29:17pm

re: #45 Targetpractice

I don’t think there’s a lot to that, though. Fire isn’t a very efficient killer. A cop friend of mine bluntly said that if a cop did want to kill someone, they’d shoot them. It’s not like you can be sure of killing someone with a fire.

It doesn’t make a lot of sense. It made a little sense to think setting the fire is a tactic to get him to come out, but to kill him it just doesn’t really have a basis.

51 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:30:37pm

re: #45 Targetpractice

Okay, so then are we allowed the question the circumstances of his demise in that context? Or is suggesting that the LAPD might have had a reason to want him dead tantamount to trying to canonize him?

Well, for one. Cops going out aggressively to catch a cop killer is nothing new and not a monopoly of the LAPD. As for his demise because of those circumstances? You’re free to think whatever you want. I’m weird. I don’t think there’s any excuse for murdering four people like he did. So in effect, I don’t buy into the “he was bullied into this” idea or it happened because of his race. Thou shalt not murder. The end.

52 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:30:40pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

So that’s a no on you actually having a source for your claim that ‘burner’ referred specifically to the burn-safe grenades, right? You’re just now acknowledging that it’s a general term used for tear gas grenades— and used because they are, in fact, burning— and just skipping over the bit where you claimed that it was jargon for the burn-safe grenades?

53 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:31:31pm

re: #50 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I don’t think there’s a lot to that, though. Fire isn’t a very efficient killer. A cop friend of mine bluntly said that if a cop did want to kill someone, they’d shoot them. It’s not like you can be sure of killing someone with a fire.

It doesn’t make a lot of sense. It made a little sense to think setting the fire is a tactic to get him to come out, but to kill him it just doesn’t really have a basis.

Only way it would make sense, at least if one wanted to be conspiratorial, would be that they used fire as a means of destroying any evidence on the body. Granted I don’t think there’s anything really to the idea that they were out to kill him, but I wouldn’t put it past them to cook his ass as a form of retribution. Bullet to the brain pan would be too quick, too clean.

54 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:32:12pm

re: #51 Gus

It’s entirely possible to say that he may have been treated badly and flipped out without condoning him flipping out. We talk about what causes kids to go into their schools and shoot, what drives them to that. Talking about what makes something happen isn’t the same as condoning it and refusing to look at it and treating as though it is condoning it by saying that it may have been part of the narrative renders events like this just mute terror, with nothing to learn from in preventing them.

55 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:32:29pm

re: #51 Gus

Well, for one. Cops going out aggressively to catch a cop killer is nothing new and not a monopoly of the LAPD. As for his demise because of those circumstances? You’re free to think whatever you want. I’m weird. I don’t think there’s any excuse for murdering four people like he did. So in effect, I don’t buy into the “he was bullied into this” idea or it happened because of his race. Thou shalt not murder. The end.

I’m not attempting to excuse his behavior or his crimes. I’m not joining the Cult of Dorner and I appreciate not being lumped in with them.

56 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:32:57pm

re: #55 Targetpractice

I’m not attempting to excuse his behavior or his crimes. I’m not joining the Cult of Dorner and I appreciate not being lumped in with them.

I’m not saying you believe that.

57 stabby  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:33:09pm

You know the brony thing is gotten so big that Wired magazine is giving previews of upcoming My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic episodes.

58 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:33:18pm

re: #53 Targetpractice

It seems beyond wildly improbable to me. It’s a weird, messy, very public thing, and you cannot depend on evidence being destroyed in a fire, and cops know that, too. There isn’t really anything from a realistic point of view that’d make it worth anyone’s while.

And he shot himself, so there’s that.

59 stabby  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:33:42pm

I mean, speaking of Chris Dorner, magical ponies of friendship!

60 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:35:10pm

re: #58 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It seems beyond wildly improbable to me. It’s a weird, messy, very public thing, and you cannot depend on evidence being destroyed in a fire, and cops know that, too. There isn’t really anything from a realistic point of view that’d make it worth anyone’s while.

And he shot himself, so there’s that.

I’ve no clue at this point and I doubt that any real investigation will clear things up to everybody’s satisfaction. If it had just been J. Random Nut going off on a cop-killing spree, nobody would have thought the wiser of it when he burnt to a crisp. But his manifesto is going to spawn talk of a cover-up for years to come.

61 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:35:20pm

re: #52 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

So that’s a no on you actually having a source for your claim that ‘burner’ referred specifically to the burn-safe grenades, right? You’re just now acknowledging that it’s a general term used for tear gas grenades— and used because they are, in fact, burning— and just skipping over the bit where you claimed that it was jargon for the burn-safe grenades?

It was discussed and linked to multiple times. If you still can’t find the link yourself then you’re an idiot. Carry on, moron.

62 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:36:33pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

So I’m confused— you’re still claiming that ‘burner’ specifically refers to burn-safe grenades, not all tear gas grenades?

63 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:43:23pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Weird, I just checked that thread and all I see the bare assertion that it refers to burn-safe grenades, and links to the website of people who make Burn-Safe. Then again, I am a moron, so it can’t be that you just made that claim without any actual facts to back it up— I mean, that’s the kind of thing you’re deriding, right?

64 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:46:21pm

CS gas is a pyrotechnic gas canister that can easily cause fires. It was used in the WACO siege that ended up burning the compound down leading to the deaths of many children. Since it was done essentially by the Clinton administration, as good Democrats, we basically instructed to keep mum about what happened and employ the Democratic version of the 11th Commandment. In the end, it became a right wing cause. For the most part, the mainstream left remain mum on WACO because it was a extremist conservative group that was involved and because it became a right-wing anti-government cause. So basically, the far-left has their anti-hero Dorner now while the far-right has their anti-hero David Koresh.

65 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:50:32pm

re: #64 Gus

Clinton took a lot of heat from democrats over Waco though. The conspiracy theory there, as here, was that the fire was intentionally set— and in that case, the analogy totally breaks down, since the compound was full of innocents. In this case, if the police had set fire to the house on purpose, I— and a fuckload of other people— would have had no problem with it. Nobody except total psychos would be okay with them setting the compound on fire for whatever reason, Koresh— because of all those other people.

It’s not a good analogy, and in real history, Clinton got criticized from the left and the right over the handling of Waco.

In a side note, I always want to call it WACO for some reason. Like NECCO.

66 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:50:40pm

There’s some story on Daily Kos today that being circulated identifying these people as being Tea Partiers.

Image: BDFQggmCMAEbtLl.jpg_large.jpg

They’re not. Here’s the lady in the red sweater holding up a “no oil sands sign.”

Image: BDFhrrHCIAA7VQB.jpg_large.jpg

67 Steve  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:54:25pm

I did not follow this LAPD thing to close, so I was wondering if anybody knows what he used to shot the four people with. Rifle? Pistol?

68 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:55:33pm

re: #65 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Good. Glad some people finally realized that. I was in my own world being in my 30s but it was pretty fucked up. I wouldn’t even compare it to Dorner but some people are thanks to Russia Today and other venues. Clinton also signed DOMA, DADT, and Al Gore really was really happy to chum up with Fred Phelps. :D

69 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 8:59:25pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Fling an insult, get a downding.

70 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 9:00:40pm

OK, this is not about anyone here so calm down. OK? I think it’s funny.

71 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 9:01:50pm

Is it me or is Chris Hedges weird?

72 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 9:02:34pm
73 Steve  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 9:02:50pm

re: #70 Gus

Funny but also sad

74 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 9:03:00pm

re: #68 Gus

And Clinton was criticized a lot for being overly centrist and corporatist. And he was hella corporatist. And charming Joe Biden’s chief of staff is one of the most noxious lobbyists in existence. Maybe Biden’s reformed him. Somehow I doubt it.

Cardinal Woolsey did a huge amount of good in England. He reformed the justice system, and the taxation system, liberalizing both of them and shifting the burden more to the wealthy and the powerful. He was also a thoroughly corrupt jerk who played the ugliest game of politics the world has ever seen. But he really was a humanist. Just a fucked-up, fascinating example of one.

It’s always hard to know if you can trust a dude with power to act according to his principles and not his nature. Generally, he’s going to do both. Obama is amazing in that he’s so scandal free; it’s the most inhuman thing about him.

75 Gus  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 9:07:46pm

Dorner’s dead and I don’t care. I eagerly await Democrat mayor, Antonio Villaraigosa, and the LAPD police unions to change the department in earnest.

76 sagehen  Fri, Feb 15, 2013 10:49:46pm

re: #65 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

In this case, if the police had set fire to the house on purpose, I— and a fuckload of other people— would have had no problem with it.

The guy whose cabin it was might have a problem with that. Just sayin’.

77 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 1:00:38am

It’s really sad to see people who can’t (or won’t) distinguish between criticizing the police’s handling of the case and “sympathizing” with Dorner.

78 Buck  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:20:00am

re: #77 Charles Johnson

criticizing the police’s handling of the case

I think for many it is about WHO is criticizing the police. What are their qualifications, and experience? There is a thin line between educated criticism and laying the groundwork for a conspiracy.

You don’t like anyone criticizing the administrations handling of Benghazi. You refer to it as “made up” outrage.

Again it is often about “who” and not “what”.

79 Buck  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:22:26am

re: #76 sagehen

The guy whose cabin it was might have a problem with that. Just sayin’.

Don’t worry about that. I just saw him (Eric Funell) on TV. “it’s a cabin, not a life”

80 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:24:23am

re: #78 Buck

I think for many it is about WHO is criticizing the police. What are their qualifications, and experience? There is a thin line between educated criticism and laying the groundwork for a conspiracy.

You don’t like anyone criticizing the administrations handling of Benghazi. You refer to it as “made up” outrage.

Again it is often about “who” and not “what”.

What qualifications are necessary to criticize the LAPD?

81 Buck  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:27:05am

re: #80 wrenchwench

What qualifications are necessary to criticize the LAPD?

It might be hard to believe, but there are government agencies and elected officials who have that in their job description.

82 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:45:52am

re: #81 Buck

Spoken like a true authoritarian.

83 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:46:34am

re: #78 Buck

You don’t like anyone criticizing the administrations handling of Benghazi. You refer to it as “made up” outrage.

LOL.

84 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:47:44am

re: #8 austin_blue


Until I see dental records, I think that the subject might be Dorner’s associate.

85 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:49:23am

re: #9 Targetpractice

I remember there being talk the he tried to leave the cabin, but was forced back in by gunfire. I’m curious if there’s any validity to that. If true, I’d consider that pretty damning against the LEOs there.

Throw in tear gas, then fire while he’s trying to get out?

We need more facts.

86 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 10:51:56am

re: #15 Targetpractice

We got few facts, because the San Bernadino police moved the media off.

May have made senses at the time, but in hindsight, it makes a breeding ground for CTs.

87 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 11:19:42am

re: #81 Buck

It might be hard to believe, but there are government agencies and elected officials who have that in their job description.

Everybody else who has dealings with the police should just leave it to the experts?

88 Buck  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 11:25:33am

re: #87 wrenchwench

Everybody else who has dealings with the police should just leave it to the experts?

No, that is not what I am saying.

But if you speculate on their motives based on nothing more than internet rumours then you can expect that people will question your motives.

89 Ojoe  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:13:48pm

And what if Dorner had booby trapped his body with a lot of C4 so that even if he were dead, and the officers came in and tried to recover the corpse, the explosives would go off and kill more?

Of course they will try to burn him up. Good riddance.

90 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:52:46pm

re: #74 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Cardinal Woolsey did a huge amount of good in England…

I’m amazed you pointed out Cardinal Woolsey as a ref in this discussion.

Edmund: I can *not* believe it! She drags me all the way from Billingsgate to Richmond to play about the weakest practical joke since Cardinal Woolsey got his knob out at Hampton Court and stood at the end of the passage pretending to be a door.

91 Aligarr  Sun, Feb 17, 2013 9:50:11am

Dorners dead , no doubts as to his inhumanity .Those he killed were not members of LAPD , he was a mad dog out of control with sharpshooter capability and bent on killing cops . Everybody is now saved the expense of affording him a lawyer , jailing him , the pain of hearing his excuses, subsequent appeals and further celebrity .
Now that its over , racism in the LAPD can be addressed , but NOT in his name . And yes the issue will be confused , because those protesting will no doubt go over the top and be seen as sympathizers , Oh well , every other fucking issue in this country goes the same route .
He’s dead and that’s the main thing . Anyone who wishes can have at it with the rest .
No one really knows shit as to whether Dorner’s complaint were real or just percieved .The man has a history of strange behavior outside his life with LAPD . Protestors should wait until the investigation is complete , and there will be one .


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