Full Concert Video (HD): Pat Metheny Group - “The Way Up” Live in Seoul, Korea

Metheny’s magnum opus, flawlessly performed
Music • Views: 29,213

[Video removed for copyright reasons.]

I’m not sure what you call this kind of music — “progressive jazz?” This is one of Metheny’s most complex extended compositions in a stunning live performance from 2005. For some reason it reminds me of a harmonically sophisticated jazz version of the progressive rock group Yes (sans pseudo-poetic lyrics).

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84 comments
1 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:02:03pm

Interesting article about WWII…

Bermuda Factored In 1942 US Invasion Scenario

A World War Two invasion of the US East Coast mounted and coordinated from an Axis base in Nazi-occupied Bermuda sounds like a scenario dreamed up by a science fiction writer — and it was.

But when “Life” magazine commissioned novelist Philip Wylie to come up with six variations based on the theme of an imminent German/Italian/Japanese attack on the United States, he was drawing on genuine military concerns then prevalent in Washington DC rather than his impressively fertile imagination. In the weeks following the December 7, 1941 Japanese air attack on the US naval facilities at Hawaii’s Pearl Harbour, American nerves were on edge about a possible Axis assault on the mainland.

The surprise military strike on the headquarters of its Pacific Fleet drew the previously neutral United States into World War Two [1939-1945]; four days after the Hawaiian naval base was crippled by two waves of carrier-based fighters, bombers and torpedo planes, Japan’s allies — Nazi Germany led by dictator Adolf Hitler [pictured above] and Benito Mussolini’s Fascist Italy — also declared war on the US.

The Axis grew out of the Anti-Comintern Pact, an anti-communist treaty signed by Nazi Germany and Japan in 1936. Italy joined the Pact in 1937. The “Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis” became a military alliance in 1939 leading to the integration of the military aims of Germany and its two treaty-bound allies.

In early 1942 “Life” — then one of the highest circulation news magazines in the US — approached Mr. Wylie, a “peacetime novelist, who later joined the Office of Facts and Figures in Washington”, as a sort of devil’s advocate to produce a series of speculative enemy invasion plans for the United States.

“When people say the US can lose the war, what they really mean is that some combination of the plans mapped here may work successfully for the Axis,” said the magazine. “Such an outcome, of course, presupposed that the enemy has nothing but good luck and the Allies nothing but bad luck.

Read the rest.

2 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:09:59pm

Rick Wakeman eat your heart out.

3 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:15:38pm

I really don’t understand this one.

As I understand it, there are more people on the planet and in the US than there has ever been.

Me thinks the math is a bit hinky.

4 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:20:05pm

re: #3 FemNaziBitch

I really don’t understand this one.

As I understand it, there are more people on the planet and in the US than there has ever been.

Me thinks the math is a bit hinky.

I think what the article is discussing is population distribution. If you cut the Middle East + China out of the map you remove a huge chunk of the world’s population right there.

5 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:21:46pm

re: #4 dragonfire1981

I think what the article is discussing is population distribution. If you cut the Middle East + China out of the map you remove a huge chunk of the world’s population right there.

The article seems to focus on Western Countries.

6 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:27:38pm

With a US Population of 315,341,856 &


COMPONENT SETTINGS FOR FEBRUARY 2013
One birth every 8 seconds
One death every 12 seconds
One international migrant (net) every 36 seconds
Net gain of one person every 15 seconds

and a steady increase in census numbers

How can anyone argue that we need to have more babies than we are having?

7 engineer cat  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:29:10pm

re: #4 dragonfire1981

I think what the article is discussing is population distribution. If you cut the Middle East + China out of the map you remove a huge chunk of the world’s population right there.

but also, it is predicted that world population may peak sometime in the next 40 years and stabilize or decline thereafter

iirc in the u.s. currently overall population growth is coming from immigrants whereas among people born here the growth rate is replacement level only

in italy the native population level has been more or less flat for a number of years

consider this: if the u.s. population was not increasing, then the commonly used rule-of-thumb about the necessity of the economy producing 150 thousand new jobs every month just to keep up with population growth would be out the door, and the grow grow grow dynamics of the american economy would change radically

8 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:29:33pm

never mind, I think I understand.

Author is a writer at the Weekly Standard.

9 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:30:17pm

re: #7 engineer cat

but also, it is predicted that world population may peak sometime in the next 40 years and stabilize or decline thereafter

iirc in the u.s. currently overall population growth is coming from immigrants whereas among people born here the growth rate is replacement level only

in italy the native population level has been more or less flat for a number of years

consider this: if the u.s. population was not increasing, then the commonly used rule-of-thumb about the necessity of the economy producing 150 thousand new jobs every month just to keep up with population growth would be out the door, and the grow grow grow dynamics of the american economy would change radically

Isn’t that what we need? The planet can only sustain so many of us. We can only stand so many of us.

10 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:35:35pm

Good stuff

Have loved Metheny for decades!!

11 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:38:08pm

bbl

12 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:40:05pm

re: #8 FemNaziBitch

never mind, I think I understand.

Author is a writer at the Weekly Standard.

When the solution is less education for women and more religion for everyone, you have to figure there’s a political angle to the definition of the problem.

13 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:49:17pm

re: #12 wrenchwench

The Weekly Standard of Women’s Suppression.

//

14 engineer cat  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:50:06pm

re: #9 FemNaziBitch

Isn’t that what we need? The planet can only sustain so many of us. We can only stand so many of us.

i should think so, eh?

15 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 2:57:39pm
16 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:00:23pm

The parents of a good friend brought in two bikes for me to work on. One is the old bike of my friend, which has been sitting in a shed for at least ten years. Her mother came in with the bike and a towel, and she was beating the bike with the towel and making clouds of dust. That’s one of the two things I’m allergic to. Now I have a headache and almost a queasy feeling, and I can’t go back out there until the dust settles. My friend’s father brought in a bike that’s never been assembled, still in the box. Less dust, but more spiders, living and dead.

I should charge extra.

17 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:03:14pm

re: #15 Gus

To Top Conservative Cat: Cat food prices went up. Your people need more $$ to pay for your food. //

18 Professor Chaos  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:03:59pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

The parents of a good friend brought in two bikes for me to work on. One is the old bike of my friend, which has been sitting in a shed for at least ten years. Her mother came in with the bike and a towel, and she was beating the bike with the towel and making clouds of dust. That’s one of the two things I’m allergic to. Now I have a headache and almost a queasy feeling, and I can’t go back out there until the dust settles. My friend’s father brought in a bike that’s never been assembled, still in the box. Less dust, but more spiders, living and dead.

I should charge extra.

As one of my co-workers likes to say, “Don’t blow off your tools in the shop, you knob!”

19 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:06:50pm

re: #17 PhillyPretzel

To Top Conservative Cat: Cat Chow prices went up. Your people need more $$ to pay for your food. //

Cat food! Parody account. Just in case. :D

20 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:11:47pm

re: #19 Gus

Fixed.

21 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:13:29pm

re: #20 PhillyPretzel

Fixed.

Me no see.

22 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:14:48pm

re: #21 Gus

reload please. It is appearing on my screen.

23 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:15:45pm

re: #22 PhillyPretzel

reload please. It is appearing on my screen.

Ah, OK.

24 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:16:35pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

Condolences. It’s peak allergy season here for me (tree pollen-acacia, conifers, etc.) It has barely rained in weeks, so I spent the last hour and a half out cleaning up the garden-weeding, cutting stuff back and just generally being sure I stuck my nose in a lot of dust and pollen, so I can really feel your pain.

eta: the barely rained part means nothing has washed the pollen off anything-just in case that wasn’t clear

25 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:29:20pm
26 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:34:00pm
27 okonkolo  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:35:26pm

amazing performance!

28 engineer cat  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:38:32pm

In 1968 I was making $2.15 an hour

in 1972 i was making minimum wage at $2.50/hr, but i lived in sublet room that cost me $100/month

cost of housing and medical care has gone up 3 to 5 times as fast as average compensation in the past 30 years

29 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:44:19pm

re: #28 engineer cat

In 1968 I was making $2.15 an hour

in 1972 i was making minimum wage at $2.50/hr, but i lived in sublet room that cost me $100/month

cost of housing and medical care has gone up 3 to 5 times as fast as average compensation in the past 30 years

I hate it when bosses go on and on about how they used to only make X. If you don’t adjust for inflation, X is a meaningless data point. In 1852 I earned 8 a month.

30 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:55:31pm

re: #25 wrenchwench

Seems like a complicated issue. Watch this:

Just the first half.

The 3/5ths Compromise actually kept southern representation down.

Edit.

31 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:57:51pm

re: #1 NJDhockeyfan

Interesting article about WWII…

Bermuda Factored In 1942 US Invasion Scenario

Read the rest.

GLADIATOR Philip Wylie?

Hm, seems like Cuba and Haiti, in addition to Bermuda, would be more likely. Three-pronged attack and such.

32 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 3:59:19pm

Or maybe not. I don’t know. More reading here.

[Link: newscorpwatch.org…]

33 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:00:10pm

re: #25 wrenchwench

WHAT?

34 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:01:55pm

Mah leg is up on the table and I haz ice on the ankle so mah research is skewed. :D

35 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:04:27pm

re: #25 wrenchwench

Okay, check me on this: this dude is saying that counting slaves as 3/5ths of a person was a positive step in recognizing black people were people/citizens/Americans?

I’ll tentatively sign onto that bandwagon.

36 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:04:51pm

re: #34 Gus

I hope you have a nice adult beverage in your hand, helping you skew that research.

And the day I try to learn anything factual from Glenn Beck, you have my permission to have me institutionalized.

37 b_sharp  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:04:58pm

re: #34 Gus

Mah leg is up on the table and I haz ice on the ankle so mah research is skewed. :D

Do you not have a cast on that thing?

38 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:06:38pm

re: #35 chadu

Okay, check me on this: this dude is saying that counting slaves as 3/5ths of a person was a positive step in recognizing black people were people/citizens/Americans?

I’ll tentatively sign onto that bandwagon.

Um, no, it was so the south had more political power in the federal government by inflating their population. (Yes, I know, slaves were actually people, but they were considered property by the law.)

39 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:08:30pm

re: #36 calochortus

I hope you have a nice adult beverage in your hand, helping you skew that research.

And the day I try to learn anything factual from Glenn Beck, you have my permission to have me institutionalized.

After last night I think I’ll wait. Beck is a turd. As for the Emory U. president, Hanlon’s razor probably applies.

40 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:09:03pm

re: #37 b_sharp

Do you not have a cast on that thing?

It’s in a cast. The cold packs work the cold through.

41 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:09:46pm

re: #30 Gus

Seems like a complicated issue. Watch this:

[Embedded content]

Just the first half.

The 3/5ths Compromise actually kept southern representation down.

It’s undoubtedly complicated, and anytime there’s a compromise that is supposed to make further progress possible, it can be debated endlessly. But given that, and the sensitivity of the issue, perhaps the president of Emory could have chosen a different example of ‘pragmatic compromise’. He went on to say, ‘Something like this process occurs every week on a university campus,’ which trivializes it, to say the least.

As Smith’s next tweet says:

42 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:10:49pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

It’s undoubtedly complicated, and anytime there’s a compromise that is supposed to make further progress possible, it can be debated endlessly. But given that, and the sensitivity of the issue, perhaps the president of Emory could have chosen a different example of ‘pragmatic compromise’. He went on to say, ‘Something like this process occurs every week on a university campus,’ which trivializes it, to say the least.

As Smith’s next tweet says:

Yeah. Really dumb use of historical compromises.

43 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:16:20pm

re: #38 calochortus

Yeah, but saying they counted as people for their own nefarious purposes actually started a paper trail of African-Americans being treated as people?

44 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:17:12pm

re: #39 Gus

After last night I think I’ll wait. Beck is a turd. As for the Emory U. president, Hanlon’s razor probably applies.

What happened last night?

Since the net effect was not to give Blacks any noticeable rights, and to increase the political power of the southern states, I’m guessing it’s not as complicated as one might think. But, I’m not a historian, so I won’t stake my reputation on it.

45 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:17:45pm

re: #43 chadu

See my previous post.

46 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:20:14pm

re: #45 calochortus

All I’m saying is that incorporating a definitive term/description/definition for black slaves, the South more or less signed it’s death warrant.

47 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:21:34pm

Some reading about the 3/5ths clause America’s Constitution: A Biography
By Akhil Reed Amar.
Starts at page 94.

48 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:22:12pm

re: #44 calochortus

What happened last night?

Since the net effect was not to give Blacks any noticeable rights, and to increase the political power of the southern states, I’m guessing it’s not as complicated as one might think. But, I’m not a historian, so I won’t stake my reputation on it.

Too much booze.

49 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:25:46pm

re: #46 chadu

I don’t think so-it permitted the slave states to be far more powerful than they would have been been without the additional representation that counting 3/5 of the slaves as population. It probably prolonged slavery. I don’t think there was serious doubt that Blacks were people-perhaps a lower form, but people nonetheless. You don’t let non-humans nurse your babies, raise your children, and for the men-be your mistress.

What doomed slavery was both the increasing realization of the immorality of the system and the industrial revolution which made slavery far less economically beneficial. Or so I learned many decade ago in high school.

50 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:26:12pm
anytime there’s a compromise that is supposed to make further progress possible, it can be debated endlessly.

I rest my case. :)

51 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:26:23pm

re: #47 Gus

Some reading about the 3/5ths clause America’s Constitution: A Biography
By Akhil Reed Amar.
Starts at page 94.

Here he is talking about the 3/5ths clause: America’s Constitutional Biography part 4

52 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:26:24pm

re: #48 Gus

Too much booze.

Sorry to hear that. Have a nice cup of tea instead. :)

53 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:29:08pm

re: #47 Gus

Added to my Wishlist. Mercy buckets!

54 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:31:38pm

re: #53 chadu

Added to my Wishlist. Mercy buckets!

Found by way of Keith Olbermann. The author speaks about this in the video I posted above.

55 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:33:14pm

re: #49 calochortus

All you say is right; I’m just saying giving slaves any sort of representational role (as 3/5th of a person) killed the whole idea of them as simply property.

Common in the South: do something for momentary political advantage, and have the ramifications bite you in the ass.

(Well, common in New England, too.)

56 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:36:10pm

re: #54 Gus

I’ll watch in a bit.

Still digging the original video.

57 b_sharp  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:36:41pm

re: #55 chadu

All you say is right; I’m just saying giving slaves any sort of representational role (as 3/5th of a person) killed the whole idea of them as simply property.

Common in the South: do something for momentary political advantage, and have the ramifications bite you in the ass.

(Well, common in New England, too.)

I think the 3/5 bit was about property.

59 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:41:03pm

re: #55 chadu

So, if slaveholders in the south began to recognize their slaves as human beings, why did they fight the Civil War? Why did they treat freed Blacks so badly for a century after that war?

60 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:48:15pm

re: #57 b_sharp

I think the 3/5 bit was about property.

The 3/5 was about taxation and political representation. 3/5 of each slave counted toward the population figure used to determine seats in the House of Representatives.

61 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:52:46pm

re: #59 calochortus

So, if slaveholders in the south began to recognize their slaves as human beings, why did they fight the Civil War? Why did they treat freed Blacks so badly for a century after that war?

Because they were fucking stupid racists.

They recognized slaves for a political point, which they won, not understanding the precedent they’d set down.

To answer your question more completely:

They SAID that slaves were 3/5ths of a human being, for their own political purposes. In real life, they treated them as property.

They fought the Civil War because they were slaveholder douchebags.

They went all Jim Crow for the next century because they are bad losers, and want to fuck up anything that happened to be done right.

62 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:54:50pm

re: #61 chadu

Precisely-so I don’t think the 3/5 compromise was progress in any way.
Your opinion may differ.

63 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:55:20pm

With baseball season upon us, I thought I’d post a possibly interesting little tidbit I just learned at MLB.com.

The National League had its first two perfect games within 5 days of each other, on June 12 and June 17 of 1880. It then waited 84 years for the next one, which didn’t happen until June 21, 1964 (Jim Bunning).

64 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:55:43pm

re: #60 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

Using a slave population for numbers, without a voice, sums up 1800s South for me.

Fuck them all to death with something spiky.

65 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:57:04pm

re: #60 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

The 3/5 was about taxation and political representation. 3/5 of each slave counted toward the population figure used to determine seats in the House of Representatives.

The irony was that the representatives from slave states wanted to count slaves as whole persons (to inflate their representation in Congress), whereas opponents of slavery didn’t want them counted at all.

66 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:57:49pm

re: #62 calochortus

Precisely-so I don’t think the 3/5 compromise was progress in any way.
Your opinion may differ.

Agreed.

The only way I think it was progress was that it was put in writing.

That’s a frank admission of what’s going on. At the time.

67 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:58:03pm

re: #64 chadu

Using a slave population for numbers, without a voice, sums up 1800s South for me.

Fuck them all to death with something spiky.

I think you may be late to that particular party.

68 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 4:59:25pm

re: #65 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

It is a fucked up question, and I’m glad I was born after 1870.

69 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:00:16pm

re: #67 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

I may or may not have access to a time machine.

70 Gus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:01:09pm

Again, Akhil Amar on the 3/5ths Clause.

71 Achilles Tang  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:02:58pm

re: #63 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

With baseball season upon us, I thought I’d post a possibly interesting little tidbit I just learned at MLB.com.

The National League had its first two perfect games within 5 days of each other, on June 12 and June 17 of 1880. It then waited 84 years for the next one, which didn’t happen until June 21, 1964 (Jim Bunning).

As we all know, the last large meteor strike was about 100 years ago, and then we have another along with a near miss on the same day. Ain’t probability fun?

72 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:03:17pm

re: #70 Gus

EXCELLENT!
Thanks, Gus!

73 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:08:37pm

re: #71

As we all know, the last large meteor strike was about 100 years ago, and then we have another along with a near miss on the same day. Ain’t probability fun?

What do you think the chance of the repeat of Jim Botimngley’s 12 RBI’s is?

74 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:09:40pm

re: #73 chadu

There must be an open italic tag there, but I can’t see it.

75 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:12:24pm

re: #69 chadu

I may or may not have access to a time machine.

How true.

76 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:20:09pm

re: #70 Gus

That was fascinating.

I never thought of the tax issues,

77 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:20:42pm

re: #75 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

How true.

It could happen!

78 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:24:20pm

Now, I’m thinking of what a second term of John Adams would mean.

I think TJ would be more mean.

And I think the CW would come 20 years earlier.

79 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:30:54pm

re: #78 chadu

Care to expand on that? An interesting idea, but I’m not seeing a direct connection.

80 chadu  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:37:53pm

re: #79 calochortus

Well, I think a second term of JA would see a build-up of the navy, and frankly more belligerence.

That would starch TJ up, and if Abigail dies during the second term, JA loses it completely.

War of 1812 in 1803.

TJ becomes more antifederalist; Madison actually distances himself from TJ; Calhoun becomes a more major player than he already was.

81 calochortus  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:42:08pm

A lot of “ifs”, but not out of the realm of possibility.

82 dragonath  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 5:52:35pm

re: #62 calochortus

Well, it brought the South into the American system, for better or for worse. Imagine if the Atlantic Slave Trade had existed in the 1860s! There was a growing sentiment in the South towards this very thing, leading up to the Civil War.

It took but a spark to put this instinctive feeling into words, and words led to deeds. The movement first took definite form in the ever radical State of South Carolina. In 1854 a grand jury in the Williamsburg district declared, “as our unanimous opinion, that the Federal law abolishing the African Slave Trade is a public grievance. We hold this trade has been and would be, if re-established, a blessing to the American people, and a benefit to the African himself.”1 This attracted only local attention; but when, in 1856, the governor of the State, in his annual message, calmly argued at length for a reopening of the trade, and boldly declared that “if we cannot supply the demand for slave labor, then we must expect to be supplied with a species of labor we do not want,”2 such words struck even Southern ears like “a thunder clap in a calm day.”3 And yet it needed but a few years to show that South Carolina had merely been the first to put into words the inarticulate thought of a large minority, if not a majority, of the inhabitants of the Gulf States.

Interestingly enough, the international slave trade was forbidden by Confederate law, but Jefferson Davis had to veto a slave importation bill.

83 jamesfirecat  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 6:07:45pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

It’s undoubtedly complicated, and anytime there’s a compromise that is supposed to make further progress possible, it can be debated endlessly. But given that, and the sensitivity of the issue, perhaps the president of Emory could have chosen a different example of ‘pragmatic compromise’. He went on to say, ‘Something like this process occurs every week on a university campus,’ which trivializes it, to say the least.

As Smith’s next tweet says:

DADT was a pragmatic compromise that while still horribly repressive was still a marked improvement over what came before.

84 Bubblehead II  Sat, Feb 16, 2013 6:32:13pm

Charles, I just posted a new page. But the category I wanted posted it to was not there.

HOW ABOUT A RACIST CATEGORY?

Lets us make it clear.

What say you?


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