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Audio Recording Clears Alec Baldwin of NY Post ‘Racial Slur’ Charge

But not before the right wing blogs go ballistic
Wingnuts • Views: 24,961

Alec Baldwin was accused earlier today of using racial slurs in a confrontation with a New York Post photographer, and right wing blogs immediately launched into a unison chorus of howling pearl-clutching outrage, calling Baldwin a racist because they’re always gleeful when they get a chance to turn the tables and accuse a liberal of racism. It doesn’t happen very often, so they try to make the most of it. Who can blame them?

Just one problem: an audio recording of the confrontation clears Baldwin of the Post’s charges: Report: No Racial Slurs Heard on Alec Baldwin Audio.

NEW YORK, Feb. 18 (UPI) — Audio of a confrontation between Alec Baldwin and New York Post staffers doesn’t back up their claims the actor uttered racist slurs, TMZ said Monday.

The Post reported Baldwin threatened a female reporter and referred to a black photographer as a “coon,” “crackhead” and “drug dealer” when they approached him outside his Manhattan home during the weekend and asked for a comment about his pregnant yoga teacher wife, Hilaria, being sued by a former student.

However, TMZ said no racial epithets were heard on the audio it reviewed. The celebrity news website also said Baldwin can be heard on the audio saying to the reporter, “I want you to choke to death,” not, “I want to choke you to death,” as the Post team alleged.

I’ll be waiting for the wingnut blogosphere’s corrections, starting with Jim Hoft, the Dumbest Man on the Internet: AWFUL… Racist Hothead Alec Baldwin Calls Reporter a “Coon” and “Drug Dealer” | the Gateway Pundit.

(But I won’t be holding my breath.)

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322 comments

1 erik_t  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 4:41:18pm

The New York Post going for the Big Lie technique? HOLY SHIT I AM SO SHOCKED, said no thinking person ever.

2 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 4:45:16pm

Lol, in a world where TMZ is more credible than a RW rag.

3 TedStriker  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 4:49:23pm

re: #1 erik_t

The New York Post going for the Big Lie technique? HOLY SHIT I AM SO SHOCKED, said no thinking person ever.

Whaddya expect? The New York Post is owned by News Corp. and is one of Murdoch’s first American media acquisitions, IIRC.

4 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 4:50:49pm

The Walking Dead was terrifically awesome last night. Really great plotting. Definitely my current favorite TV series.

The Governor is a real slime ball.

5 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 4:53:07pm
6 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 4:54:08pm

re: #2 Varek Raith

Lol, in a world where TMZ is more credible than a RW rag.

Somehow, they get the stuff, often.

7 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 4:54:23pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

The Governor is a real slime ball.

And Daryl made it clear to Merle that he has to adapt or be abandoned. I thought that was an awesome scene.

8 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 4:54:30pm

And by the way, I recommend watching the Maddow show tonight for the documentary based on the David Corn-Michael Isikoff book “Hubris: Selling the Iraq War.”

9 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 4:56:59pm

re: #7 Lidane

And Daryl made it clear to Merle that he has to adapt or be abandoned. I thought that was an awesome scene.

Is there an outlet to watch the episodes again? I hate waiting till next Sunday & really need to re-watch to disect every damn scene.

10 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:23:15pm

re: #9 Stanley Sea

The official site usually has full episodes shortly after they air.

[Link: www.amctv.com…]

11 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:24:29pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

The official site usually has full episodes shortly after they air.

[Link: www.amctv.com…]

Gracias

12 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:29:00pm

I expect we’ll have some huge fights about this Rachel Maddow show. I’m looking forward to it.

14 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:32:44pm

re: #13 Charles Johnson

The National Memo » ‘We Did Participate In A Hoax’: New Documentary Reveals How Bush Administration Lied Us Into Iraq War

I’m not inclined to believe anything David Corn says. The man is far and angry left.

15 gwangung  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:33:31pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I’m not inclined to believe anything David Corn says. The man is far and angry left.

“La la la la….I can’t hear youuuuuu!”

16 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:34:53pm

Refreshing to see this on the community spotlight section of Dkos
Let’s Stop Inflating Crowd Estimates, Eh? (A Lesson from the Climate Change Rally)

Overestimating our accomplishments and the numbers we can mobilize today sets us up for defeat and disillusionment tomorrow, or the next day.

Perhaps, though, we are trying to impress and encourage people who are new to the struggle, like many yesterday who were at their first large demonstration, maybe their first march ever, period, Even here, puffing up our numbers is a bad way to go. Having attended, for instance, a small protest numbering several dozen, people reading a subsequent web-posting or an article in a left newspaper claiming several hundred are going to expect they are in the presence of bullshitters.

Even in a larger crowd, like the Climate Change rally, some people will find inflated statistics suspicious. This is the US—many people have gone to games or shows in arenas which seat 50,000 people, and they might just notice the discrepancy between the numbers there and the numbers standing at the foot of the Washington Monument yesterday.

And fudging numbers can carry a bigger penalty. Our bus captain, Dan, made a very good point on the ride back to the Bronx, when we were discussing this. Global warming, climate change is a complex phenomenon, which can sometimes be confirmed by direct personal experience. Really understanding it, however, requires understanding some science, math-based science. If people think we lie about one set of numbers, why wouldn’t they mistrust what we have to say about another?

I’ve use terms here like overestimate, fudge, inflate, but I will leave the last word, a blunt one, to African agronomist and revolutionary leader, the late Amilcar Cabral:

Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories.

17 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:35:29pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I’m not inclined to believe anything David Corn says. The man is far and angry left.

He’s an idiot and can safely be ignored.

18 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:36:40pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

I’m not inclined to believe anything David Corn says. The man is far and angry left.

re: #17 Killgore Trout

He’s an idiot and can safely be ignored.

What do you guys have to back up those opinions?

19 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:38:25pm

re: #18 wrenchwench

re: #17 Killgore Trout

What do you guys have to back up those opinions?

I mean, I know he used to write for PJ Media….

20 freetoken  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:40:38pm

The few times I’ve watched David Corn (e.g., on blogginheads) he struck me as anything but “angry”. Seemed somewhat jovial.

21 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:40:57pm

re: #18 wrenchwench

re: #17 Killgore Trout

What do you guys have to back up those opinions?

It’s not one little thing, it’s all the times I’ve seen nutty things he said. The general picture in my mind is that of a far-left moonbat who badly wants to ‘prove that Bush lied’.

22 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:41:12pm

Right, David Corn’s an idiot who can be safely ignored.

Mitt Romney would probably disagree.

23 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:41:31pm

re: #19 wrenchwench

I mean, I know he used to write for PJ Media….

His work for mother jones isn’t much better. MOther Jones is actually kind of surprising at times, it’s an outlet with potential and I’ll often click over to see what they think about a given topic. If I see Davd Corn’s name I’ll just close the article. too much BS. I just don;t consider him a reliable source for information or having a serious opinion.

24 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:41:41pm

re: #20 freetoken

The few times I’ve watched David Corn (e.g., on blogginheads) he struck me as anything but “angry”. Seemed somewhat jovial.

Shhh. We’re having a wingnut moment here.

25 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:42:20pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

It’s not one little thing, it’s all the times I’ve seen nutty things he said. The general picture in my mind is that of a far-left moonbat who badly wants to ‘prove that Bush lied’.

Can you name even one nutty thing? I mean, your idea of nutty and mine do not always coincide….

And are you sure Bush did not lie?

26 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:43:15pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

His work for mother jones isn’t much better. MOther Jones is actually kind of surprising at times, it’s an outlet with potential and I’ll often click over to see what they think about a given topic. If I see Davd Corn’s name I’ll just close the article. too much BS. I just don;t consider him a reliable source for information or having a serious opinion.

Can you give one example? Oh, wait. You don’t read his stuff. OK.

27 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:43:17pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

What in his record brought this about? I don’t really know much about him. I know that he doesn’t like conspiracy theorists. I know he friggin’ hated Bush.

What’d he get really egregiously wrong or whatever that made you decide he was untrustworthy?

28 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:46:49pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

I expect we’ll have some huge fights about this Rachel Maddow show. I’m looking forward to it.

The show hasn’t even started yet, and one of the authors has been completely discredited.

You guys want to start on Isikoff now?

29 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:47:39pm

I long ago decided that the Bush administration really did con America into the Iraq War, so I doubt this show will have anything really surprising.

And by America, I include myself. I was conned. After 9/11 I fell for the lie that Iraq was a serious threat to America. And it was a lie.

30 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:48:29pm

re: #28 wrenchwench

The show hasn’t even started yet, and one of the authors has been completely discredited.

You guys want to start on Isikoff now?

Isikoff has to be a total far left angry loon with no credibility. Who else would write a book with David Corn?

31 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:48:53pm

re: #17 Killgore Trout

He’s an idiot and can safely be ignored.

You hating him means that in the real world, he’s actually credible. Good to know.

32 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:50:11pm

re: #26 wrenchwench

Can you give one example? Oh, wait. You don’t read his stuff. OK.

He’s a fountain of misinformation

[Link: finance.fortune.cnn.com…]

[Link: finance.fortune.cnn.com…]
I didn’t vote for Mitt, I don’t like republican politics but I don’t need misinformation to arrive at that opinion. I guess you could consider Corn an effective propagandist but he’s not necessary for my world view.

33 freetoken  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:50:15pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

I have come to a similar conclusion. While many accusations against S. Hussein will still stand up, I believe, some of the beating of the war drums was just well crafted propaganda.

In this (one of the few things) I agree with Jim Kunstler: Bush took advantage of the need to get revenge on Arabs felt by many Americans after 9/11, and kicking Saddam’s butt was a sort of catharsis that the American public readily purchased.

34 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:51:36pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

I long ago decided that the Bush administration really did con America into the Iraq War, so I doubt this show will have anything really surprising.

And by America, I include myself. I was conned. After 9/11 I fell for the lie that Iraq was a serious threat to America. And it was a lie.

Sadly, a lot of people bought into the obvious lies being sold to justify the Iraq War.

I can honestly say I wasn’t one of them. I got called a traitor for that back in the day, but the years have only vindicated the anti-Iraq War crowd.

35 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:52:29pm

re: #28 wrenchwench

The show hasn’t even started yet, and one of the authors has been completely discredited.

You guys want to start on Isikoff now?

No, he seems to be on the level. That doesn’t mean he might be wrong, but he’s not a loon so far as I can see.

36 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:52:30pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

I long ago decided that the Bush administration really did con America into the Iraq War, so I doubt this show will have anything really surprising.

And by America, I include myself. I was conned. After 9/11 I fell for the lie that Iraq was a serious threat to America. And it was a lie.

Ditto.

The Iraq war was a fraud of epic proportion.

37 klys  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:54:50pm

re: #34 Lidane

Sadly, a lot of people bought into the obvious lies being sold to justify the Iraq War.

I can honestly say I wasn’t one of them. I got called a traitor for that back in the day, but the years have only vindicated the anti-Iraq War crowd.

(I will totally date myself with this post, but…)

I was in high school for 9/11 and a lot of the subsequent push into Afghanistan and then Iraq. We watched and discussed it in my history class a fair bit. Much of the discussion was not positive towards Bush on the topic of Iraq.

I spent much of the time from then until 2007 or so ignoring politics because it was depressing. I voted, but that was about it.

38 erik_t  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:56:17pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

I long ago decided that the Bush administration really did con America into the Iraq War, so I doubt this show will have anything really surprising.

And by America, I include myself. I was conned. After 9/11 I fell for the lie that Iraq was a serious threat to America. And it was a lie.

I was in junior high at the time. Our social studies course organized some classes around it, talked back and forth between the sides. Took a vote, and the only kid in the class who was against the invasion was the foreign exchange student from Germany. The rest of us were sure that no elected US government would ever lie our country into a disastrous war for no reason.

lol. dumb naive kids.

sigh.

39 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 5:56:42pm

I did not vote in 2000 because Lieberman was on the VP ticket. 9/11 came along and things started to change fast. The hunt was on for the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Offers were made for the Taliban to surrender which fell on deaf ears and the war was on. When the news came about Iraq I could only respond with, “what?” Watching Colin Powell make his case in the UN raised my bullshit meter to about 10.

By 2004 I was already gun ho and didn’t want the USA to withdraw before they cleaned up the mess they created in Iraq. Yes, it was its very own mess under Saddam Hussein but, apples and oranges. I voted for Bush to end the war. Things finally started getting much better after Robert Gates replaced Donald Rumsfeld. I went on to vote for McCain in 2008.

Part of my support was fueled by the words of Christopher Hitchens much of which I still agree with to this day. A lot of people died, yes, but the Iraq War has given the Iraqi people an enormous gift now that it’s been freed from the shackles of Hussein’s dictatorship.

I have no apologies for voting for George W. Bush.

40 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:02:01pm

re: #31 Lidane

You hating him means that in the real world, he’s actually credible. Good to know.

QFT.

41 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:02:29pm

re: #37 klys

(I will totally date myself with this post, but…)

I was in high school for 9/11 and a lot of the subsequent push into Afghanistan and then Iraq. We watched and discussed it in my history class a fair bit. Much of the discussion was not positive towards Bush on the topic of Iraq.

I spent much of the time from then until 2007 or so ignoring politics because it was depressing. I voted, but that was about it.

I was a senior in high school during the first Gulf War. I remember calling it a war over oil and getting called a communist and getting the yellow ribbon rah rah USA folks pissed at me. Years later, it turned out that yeah, it was a war over oil.

When 9/11 happened, I was 28 years old. I remember being devastated by it. I supported the Afghanistan invasion because that made sense. We had an idea that Bin Laden was there. The Taliban were shielding him. I had no problem with going after him.

Iraq? Still a war over oil. And nothing but a revenge fantasy by Dubya and Darth Cheney to “redeem” Bush I. Nothing more.

42 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:03:09pm

Excuse me while I watch these far left angry loons and their totally discredited hallucinations.

43 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:03:57pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

He’s a fountain of misinformation

[Link: finance.fortune.cnn.com…]

[Link: finance.fortune.cnn.com…]
I didn’t vote for Mitt, I don’t like republican politics but I don’t need misinformation to arrive at that opinion. I guess you could consider Corn an effective propagandist but he’s not necessary for my world view.

OK, you’ve shown one drop spewing out of that fountain, and that drop is still a matter of opinion over whether Romney’s signature on Bain documents meant he was active or not.

I assume there are a few more drops … ?

44 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:04:28pm

So fucking creepy watching this.

Remember. We questioners were shut down with TRAITOR.

45 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:04:53pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

OK, you’ve shown one drop spewing out of that fountain, and that drop is still a matter of opinion over whether Romney’s signature on Bain documents meant he was active or not.

I assume there are a few more drops … ?

Give KT some time. He’s still trying to find a way to bring both Anon and OWS into the mix.

46 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:05:01pm

Watch out, I might post the video too. That’s how crazy I am.

47 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:06:46pm

I gotta clean up and go home, where I might be able to watch it after cooking and cleaning up.

48 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:07:01pm

Btw, this does kind of tie in with the DKos article I linked to at #16. You don’t need the exaggerations and dishonest bullshit. Ultimately it only weakens your case with smart people who might otherwise be on your side. Issues are complicated and dishonesty only hurts your credibility and alienates the allies you need most.

49 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:07:12pm

I’m recording it, risking far left contamination of my hard drive.

51 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:09:49pm

Image: h47D3DF0B.jpg

Later, lizards.

52 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:09:51pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

So wait, because Corn alleged that Romney was involved in Bain after his exit— and, you know, Romeny did sign things and retained his titles during that period, so it has every appearance of being active— that’s your proof that he’s completely untrustworthy as a source?

53 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:09:56pm

omg that we fell for this SHIT.

54 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:10:04pm

re: #50 Vicious Babushka

Wingnut totally refusing to accept the fact the Obama is receiving an award from Israel, insists it’s just some random “lefties”

55 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:10:11pm

re: #37 klys

(I will totally date myself with this post, but…)

I was in high school for 9/11 and a lot of the subsequent push into Afghanistan and then Iraq. We watched and discussed it in my history class a fair bit. Much of the discussion was not positive towards Bush on the topic of Iraq.
.

I went to my church, got down on my knees and gave thanks that I was 4+ years out of the Army before Bush’s foolish war came along. I was grateful I did not have to obey his orders. It was painfully obvious how badly it was going to go because they thought they could fight a war without paying for it; without sacrifice. History, I believe, will be very unkind to Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld but I doubt they will receive the level of scorn they truly deserve because too many still find it more comfortable to believe the lies.

56 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:10:20pm

Lol, KT.

57 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:11:02pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

You don’t need the exaggerations and dishonest bullshit. Ultimately it only weakens your case with smart people who might otherwise be on your side. Issues are complicated and dishonesty only hurts your credibility and alienates the allies you need most.

Coming from you, this is hilarious. It’s like Pirate Bay threatening to sue for copyright infringement.

I think my irony meter just broke.

58 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:11:16pm

Well, I guess the cake really was a lie.

59 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:11:38pm

re: #54 Kragar (Antichrist )

You have to read the entire conversation.

60 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:11:42pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Issues are complicated and dishonesty only hurts your credibility and alienates the allies you need most.

Great advice. Pray tell when will you start following it yourself?

61 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:11:45pm

they discredit Corn because he was successful in exposing the GOP flat out bullshit. nothing more.

KT and DF - prove his unworthiness.

62 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:12:25pm



63 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:13:34pm

re: #62 Vicious Babushka

LOL you are so #blocked now :P

64 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:13:39pm

Greta’s gonna so block me now.

65 freetoken  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:15:00pm

re: #57 Lidane

It’s like Pirate Bay threatening to sue for copyright infringement.

The Pirate Bay Is Suing an Anti-Piracy Group for Copyright Infringement

66 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:15:25pm
67 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:15:43pm

re: #62 Vicious Babushka

All well known liberal liars.
/

68 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:16:32pm

One of the most persuasive arguments I read for the lie that Saddam had WMDs: The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq.

I actually recommended this outrageous piece of shit to friends, which I truly regret.

69 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:18:10pm

re: #61 Stanley Sea

they discredit Corn because he was successful in exposing the GOP flat out bullshit. nothing more.

KT and DF - prove his unworthiness.

Killgore already did that.

70 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:18:37pm

re: #69 Dark_Falcon

LOL no. He didn’t. Try again.

71 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:19:00pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

One of the most persuasive arguments I read for the lie that Saddam had WMDs: The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq.

I actually recommended this outrageous piece of shit to friends, which I truly regret.

You think that’s bad? I bought a Robert Spencer book as a Christmas present for my Dad.

I feel like such a douchebag for that.

72 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:19:13pm
73 gwangung  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:20:18pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

He’s a fountain of misinformation

[Link: finance.fortune.cnn.com…]

[Link: finance.fortune.cnn.com…]
I didn’t vote for Mitt, I don’t like republican politics but I don’t need misinformation to arrive at that opinion. I guess you could consider Corn an effective propagandist but he’s not necessary for my world view.

I find these cites to be disinformation themselves, because in my job as an analyst of SEC documents, I do not find Corn’s interpretation to be out of the pale. They are not the ONLY explanation, but they are not unsupported.

74 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:20:18pm

re: #71 Kragar (Antichrist )

Dude, you’re talking to the idiot who designed Robert Spencer’s website.

75 Shvaughn  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:20:41pm

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Btw, this does kind of tie in with the DKos article I linked to at #16. You don’t need the exaggerations and dishonest bullshit. Ultimately it only weakens your case with smart people who might otherwise be on your side. Issues are complicated and dishonesty only hurts your credibility and alienates the allies you need most.

You are totally lacking in self-awareness, aren’t you?

76 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:21:11pm

OMG i just saw David Corn!

77 freetoken  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:21:29pm

re: #76 Stanley Sea

OMG i just saw David Corn!

Did he have horns?

78 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:21:37pm
79 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:21:56pm

re: #76 Stanley Sea

OMG i just saw David Corn!

wash the moonbat cooties from your eyes this instant!!1!1

80 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:22:30pm

re: #78 Varek Raith

Dishonest Bullshit.

Rating: -12
Total: 16
Plus: 2
Dark_Falcon, sattv4u2
Minus: 14
Kronocide (BigPapa), bratwurst, erik_t, Iwouldprefernotto, JamesWI, Jimmah (Jimmah), Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut (Obdicut), palomino, Interesting Times (publicityStunted), RadicalModerate, Shvaughn, Stanley Sea (Stanley Sea), 122 Year Old Obama (SteelPH), Varek Raith

81 Mattand  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:22:47pm

So what’s the over-under on Killgore dismissing Maddow as no better than Glenn Beck?

82 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:23:27pm

The “mobile weapons labs.” Yep. Fell for that one too.

Number of “mobile weapons labs” actually found: zero.

83 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:23:39pm

So, KT is now a fountain of misinformation, invalidating anything he posts.
/KT logic.

84 Shvaughn  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:24:34pm

re: #83 Varek Raith

So, KT is now a fountain of misinformation, invalidating anything he posts.
/KT logic.

Actually that’s sort of normal person logic too, based on KT’s track record.

85 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:24:50pm

re: #67 Kragar (Antichrist )

All well known liberal liars.
/

Especially this well-known Israeli leftist moonbat site.//

86 klys  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:24:52pm

re: #55 William Barnett-Lewis

My aunt served in both the original Gulf War and in version 2.0. I reflect back on those very differently, probably because I was 5 for the first and in college when she got sent over for the second, but I also suspect I was much more against the bullshit reasons of the second.

I firmly believe you can support the troops without supporting the stupidity that was going into Iraq.

(And thank you for your service.)

87 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:25:08pm

re: #74 Charles Johnson

Dude, you’re talking to the idiot who designed Robert Spencer’s website.

OK, we’ll call it a draw.
/

88 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:25:09pm

re: #82 Charles Johnson

The “mobile weapons labs.” Yep. Fell for that one too.

Number of “mobile weapons labs” actually found: zero.

They were moved to Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan.

89 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:25:41pm

re: #84 Shvaughn

Actually that’s sort of normal person logic too, based on KT’s track record.

Mah head hurtz.

90 TedStriker  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:26:18pm

re: #81 Mattand

So what’s the over-under on Killgore dismissing Maddow as no better than Glenn Beck?

He’s done it before, IIRC.

91 Amory Blaine  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:26:47pm

Planned Parenthood to close 4 Wisconsin centers

Planned Parenthood announced plans Monday to close four of its 27 clinics in Wisconsin due to a lack of state funding.

Clinics in Beaver Dam, Johnson Creek, Chippewa Falls and Shawano will close between April and July, Planned Parenthood leaders said. The closures are the direct consequence of the Legislature eliminating $1 million in state funding for the group in the last budget, said Teri Huyck, president and chief executive officer of Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin.

That money was earmarked for women’s health care services Planned Parenthood offered in nine counties. None of the clinics being closed offered abortions. State law prohibits state money from being used to pay for abortions, unless medically necessary.

Without the state money, the clinics could not afford to stay open, Huyck said.

Each of the four clinics had been open for years. The Beaver Dam site, which opened in 1977, was the oldest and the one in Johnson Creek, which opened in 1999, is the newest.

Planned Parenthood said the closures will affect services such as cancer screenings, breast exams, birth control, STD testing and treatment, and HIV screening provided to 2,000 patients.

92 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:27:01pm

re: #88 Varek Raith

They were moved to Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan.

Still hear wingnuts to this day swear up and down that the weapons got moved to Syria or Lebanon, because we “know” Saddam had them and there’s just no way that we could have been wrong.

93 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:27:11pm

Funny how quite DF and KT got.

94 prairiefire  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:27:35pm

re: #76 Stanley Sea

OMG i just saw David Corn!

He could use a little lip filler.

95 Mattand  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:28:14pm

re: #90 TedStriker

He’s done it before, IIRC.

It’s just a matter of time. A finer example of reflexive MBF you won’t find anywhere else.

96 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:28:46pm

And now the aluminum tubes that were supposed to be evidence for a nuclear program.

Yep, fell for that too, although I remember feeling some dissonance by that time.

97 gwangung  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:30:06pm

re: #93 Varek Raith

Funny how quite DF and KT got.

Is there other evidence of Corn’s “untrustworthiness”?

98 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:30:25pm

And now the yellowcake from Niger.

This facade took some real effort to construct.

99 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:30:44pm

re: #97 gwangung

Is there other evidence of Corn’s “untrustworthiness”?

Negative.

100 erik_t  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:31:15pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

And now the aluminum tubes that were supposed to be evidence for a nuclear program.

Yep, fell for that too, although I remember feeling some dissonance by that time.

I found the chem/bio claims to be credible; I felt the nuke allegations to be chickenshit from the start.

For some reason, it did not bother me that the same parties were making both the plausible and the completely batshit claims.

101 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:31:20pm

Can’t believe I fell for some of this shit.
*Headdesk*

102 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:31:48pm
103 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:31:50pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

And now the aluminum tubes that were supposed to be evidence for a nuclear program.

Yep, fell for that too, although I remember feeling some dissonance by that time.

The sad thing is not that so many fell for all that BS, it’s that so many to this day still believe that Iraq either got caught with WMDs or had already moved them before the war. If this a just world, a generation from now, people still believing that will be treated with the same derision as Holocaust deniers.

104 Amory Blaine  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:32:03pm

I was scared to death as everyone around me fell for that shit.

105 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:33:02pm
106 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:33:52pm

mushroom cloud

the rehearsed, planned propaganda.

The USA fell for it.

107 Shvaughn  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:34:18pm

No offense you guys, but damn you were gullible.

There’s a reason the rest of the world was like “wait, what?” — and yet (some of) your side were calling me a traitor cuz I was right.

108 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:34:30pm

re: #91 Amory Blaine

Planned Parenthood to close 4 Wisconsin centers

Planned Parenthood said the closures will affect services such as cancer screenings, breast exams, birth control, STD testing and treatment, and HIV screening provided to 2,000 patients.

Wouldn’t it be the height of irony if some of the people who used these services voted for Gov. Dopey Dead Eyes? Too bad so many others have to suffer for their stupidity as well.

109 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:35:20pm

re: #93 Varek Raith

Funny how quite DF and KT got.

I’m still here but I’m not going to watch or debate Corn’s documentary. Sorry, but on this one Bush is still my man over Corn and I’m with him to the end.

110 Shvaughn  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:35:38pm

Why does Trout always vanish when someone brings up this comment by him?

111 Mattand  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:35:42pm

re: #103 Targetpractice

The sad thing is not that so many fell for all that BS, it’s that so many to this day still believe that Iraq either got caught with WMDs or had already moved them before the war. If this a just world, a generation from now, people still believing that will be treated with the same derision as Holocaust deniers.

One of the sadder things about Christopher Hitchen’s death was that, to the best of my knowledge, he checked out still believing Iraq was involved in 9/11.

112 erik_t  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:35:51pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’m still here but I’m not going to watch or debate Corn’s documentary. Sorry, but on this one Bush is still my man over Corn and I’m with him to the end.

So do you or do you not believe there are or were WMDs in Iraq?

113 Shvaughn  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:36:15pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’m still here but I’m not going to watch or debate Corn’s documentary. Sorry, but on this one Bush is still my man over Corn and I’m with him to the end.

LALALALALALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU STOP TALKING LALALALALA

114 klys  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:36:33pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’m still here but I’m not going to watch or debate Corn’s documentary. Sorry, but on this one Bush is still my man over Corn and I’m with him to the end.

Does this mean that once your mind is decided, you never re-evaluate based on new evidence?

Edited to clarify meaning.

115 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:36:46pm

HOw is the evening going.

Are we arguing about WMD’s?

116 Shvaughn  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:37:19pm

re: #115 FemNaziBitch

HOw is the evening going.

Are we arguing about WMD’s?

Apparently we’re not arguing about them because Bush is the man.

117 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:37:27pm

re: #115 FemNaziBitch

Are we arguing about WMD’s?

Start here.

118 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:37:54pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

i was an anti american. compare.

119 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:39:10pm

re: #118 Stanley Sea

i was an anti american. compare.

And meanwhile, all the TGDNutcases calling for secession and armed revolution are “patriots”.

120 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:42:10pm

re: #112 erik_t

So do you or do you not believe there are or were WMDs in Iraq?

I believe Saddam Hussein retained some WMDs after 1991, but later transferred them to Syria. He tried to hint he still had them, though, because they were part of his bluff. Whether the bluff was aimed at the US or Iran or both is impossible to say.

121 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:42:18pm

re: #107 Shvaughn

No offense you guys, but damn you were gullible.

There’s a reason the rest of the world was like “wait, what?” — and yet (some of) your side were calling me a traitor cuz I was right.

Not offering excises I hope, we fucked up about as bad as only a superpower can. But an undeniable point remains. Saddam’s very real very deadly record. That’s what did it. This guy was a previous offender big time. And he broke the deal over and over behind the end of hostilities when the worlds signed up and kicked his ass out of Kuwait.

122 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:43:32pm

re: #117 Interesting Times

Start here.

I’m too tired, do I have to watch it. Can’t I just have the Lizard short version in 3 sentences or less?

123 klys  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:44:17pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

I believe Saddam Hussein retained some WMDs after 1991, but later transferred them to Syria. He tried to hint he still had them, though, because they were part of his bluff. Whether the bluff was aimed at the US or Iran or both is impossible to say.

So what do you make of the claims the administration made to the American people? Shoddy intelligence or deliberate fraud?

124 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:44:23pm
125 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:46:03pm

re: #124 Gus

And he turned out to be wrong.

126 Kragar (Antichrist )  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:46:54pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

I believe Saddam Hussein retained some WMDs after 1991, but later transferred them to Syria. He tried to hint he still had them, though, because they were part of his bluff. Whether the bluff was aimed at the US or Iran or both is impossible to say.

Because Saddam would never have lied about such things to bully his neighbors.

127 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:47:23pm

re: #121 Political Atheist

Not offering excises I hope, we fucked up about as bad as only a superpower can. But an undeniable point remains. Saddam’s very real very deadly record. That’s what did it. This guy was a previous offender big time. And he broke the deal over and over behind the end of hostilities when the worlds signed up and kicked his ass out of Kuwait.

I never cared about WMD’s. We put him in power and when he got to fuckin’ big for his britches, we took him out.

I don’t like, but there it is.

IIRC, he had the 4th largest stockpile of conventnional weapons on the planet, he used chemical weapons on his own people, he needed to go, we had the ability and the political coalition to do it. Was it about oil or Bush or whatever, I don’t really care, children are no longer in prisons in Iraq. His sons are no longer torturing at will.

I wish, sometimes, we could do it more often. Mostly I don’t.

It happened, right or wrong, we have to get on with it.

128 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:48:46pm
he had the 4th largest stockpile of conventnional weapons on the planet

Just about all of it outdated crap.

129 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:49:03pm

YEAH, LOWER THE MINIMUM WAGE SO THEY CAN’T EVEN AFFORD TO TAKE THE BUS AND HAVE TO WALK. EXERCISE! DERPTY DERP.

130 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:49:07pm

re: #124 Gus

Also see

131 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:49:26pm

re: #123 klys

So what do you make of the claims the administration made to the American people? Shoddy intelligence or deliberate fraud?

The former, plus a desire to give Tony Blair political cover. George Bush could have sued Saddam Hussein’s other actions and sold taking him out to America, but Blair was worried such a course would be seen as ‘illegal’ in the UK, since it would have been done in support of a Security Council resolution but without the SC authorizing force (which Russia and China were never going to allow). WMD’s were thought the route that would give Blair the needed justification.

In retrospect, we should have let the British stand aside, made a stronger case and then gone it alone. in that scenario, the rape rooms and children’s prison we found would have helped prove the justification, instead of being seen as excuses for its failure.

132 Jimmah The Unacceptable  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:49:54pm

Factual information…weakens resolve…creates…doubt…

MUST…RESIST…FACTUAL…INFORMATION

133 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:50:18pm

What an interesting subject for serious people to explore seriously. Sadly, no.

134 thedopefishlives  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:50:22pm

re: #132 Jimmah

Factual information…weakens resolve…creates…doubt…

MUST…RESIST…FACTUAL…INFORMATION

The derp must flow!

Evening Lizardim.

135 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:50:44pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

What an interesting subject for serious people to explore seriously. Sadly, no.

You keep ignoring that comment.
Funny, that.

136 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:50:59pm

re: #127 FemNaziBitch

I never cared about WMD’s. We put him in power and when he got to fuckin’ big for his britches, we took him out.

I don’t like, but there it is.

IIRC, he had the 4th largest stockpile of conventnional weapons on the planet, he used chemical weapons on his own people, he needed to go, we had the ability and the political coalition to do it. Was it about oil or Bush or whatever, I don’t really care, children are no longer in prisons in Iraq. His sons are no longer torturing at will.

I wish, sometimes, we could do it more often. Mostly I don’t.

It happened, right or wrong, we have to get on with it.

We didn’t put him in, GGT. We had supported him at times prior to 1990, but the US had no hand in the coup that brought Saddam Hussein to power.

137 SteveMcGazi  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:51:03pm

I remember Michael Smerconish swearing that Iraq was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing, and that they colluded with Timothy McVeigh. Once on his radio show he even took some reporter to Arlen Spector’s office in the DC. The craziest thing were the sworn affidavits from store clerks who swore they recognized Iraqi secret agents running around Iowa.

138 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:51:41pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

You keep ignoring that comment.
Funny, that.

I’ve reversed my upding of that comment upon further review.

139 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:51:41pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

Also see

[Embedded content]

Thanks. Tweeted and look who RT’d me…

140 CuriousLurker  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:51:51pm

Incoming wingnut warning:

No comments yet, but s/he’s already down-dinging. Started out with this profile pic, then changed it to this one a few minutes later.

Karma: 0

Loyal_Opp

(Logged in)
Registered since: Feb 18, 2013 at 6:30 pm
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of Pages posted: 0

141 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:52:43pm

re: #140 CuriousLurker

Incoming wingnut warning:

No comments yet, but s/he’s already down-dinging. Started out with this profile pic, then changed it to this one a few minutes later.

Karma: 0

Loyal_Opp

(Logged in)
Registered since: Feb 18, 2013 at 6:30 pm
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of Pages posted: 0

requested links cannot be loaded?

142 SteveMcGazi  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:52:52pm

re: #127 FemNaziBitch

I never cared about WMD’s. We put him in power and when he got to fuckin’ big for his britches, we took him out.

I don’t like, but there it is.

IIRC, he had the 4th largest stockpile of conventnional weapons on the planet, he used chemical weapons on his own people, he needed to go, we had the ability and the political coalition to do it. Was it about oil or Bush or whatever, I don’t really care, children are no longer in prisons in Iraq. His sons are no longer torturing at will.

I wish, sometimes, we could do it more often. Mostly I don’t.

It happened, right or wrong, we have to get on with it.

He didn’t need to go. I said it then and it’s still true. Iraq was the only thing Iran really feared. Sadaam Hussein learned the same lesson Fidel Castro learned forty years earlier. We don’t care what you do to your own people, just keep it inside your own border.

143 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:53:13pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

What an interesting subject for serious people to explore seriously. Sadly, no.

It’s a lot more complicated than are people making this appear. Right now the focus is on the Bush administration here. There’s more to this story.

144 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:53:35pm

Yeah, Dems were wrong too.
This does not change anything, despite what some would like.
Iraq had no WMD. They were not secreted away to Syria. Iraq had no functioning nuclear program after the Gulf War. Iraq had no ties to Al-Qaeda or 9/11.

145 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:53:40pm

re: #142 SteveMcG

He didn’t need to go. I said it then and it’s still true. Iraq was the only thing Iran really feared. Sadaam Hussein learned the same lesson Fidel Castro learned forty years earlier. We don’t care what you do to your own people, just keep it inside your own border.

I care.

146 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:53:42pm

re: #140 CuriousLurker

Hey CL, I finally checked my gmail, sent you a reply!

147 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:54:08pm

re: #139 Gus

Thanks. Tweeted and look who RT’d me…

Al Jazeeeraaah! Shariaaaaa!
/Uulululululululuuuu

148 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:54:50pm

re: #140 CuriousLurker

Incoming wingnut warning:

No comments yet, but s/he’s already down-dinging. Started out with this profile pic, then changed it to this one a few minutes later.

Karma: 0

Loyal_Opp

(Logged in)
Registered since: Feb 18, 2013 at 6:30 pm
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of Pages posted: 0

First profile pic “cannot be loaded,” second choice is a TGDN favorite. Did I track that dirt in here? (Looks around guiltily, takes off muddy boots)

149 SteveMcGazi  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:54:59pm

re: #145 FemNaziBitch

I care.

Well, then, were the Iraqis better off with Sadaam Hussein or the civil war?

150 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:55:42pm

re: #141 FemNaziBitch

requested links cannot be loaded?

It’s a picture of a woman about to be shot in the back of the head by a Chinese policeman, with caption on socialists and gun control. That is a warning light, since its usually wingnuts who actually go in for graphic images.

151 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:55:50pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

The former, plus a desire to give Tony Blair political cover. George Bush could have sued Saddam Hussein’s other actions and sold taking him out to America, but Blair was worried such a course would be seen as ‘illegal’ in the UK, since it would have been done in support of a Security Council resolution but without the SC authorizing force (which Russia and China were never going to allow). WMD’s were thought the route that would give Blair the needed justification.

In retrospect, we should have let the British stand aside, made a stronger case and then gone it alone. in that scenario, the rape rooms and children’s prison we found would have helped prove the justification, instead of being seen as excuses for its failure.

Wouldn’t have worked, Bush had to sell the sizzle, when he knew there was no steak. America was on an “anti-terrorism” kick and trying to sell the war on any other grounds would have fallen flat.

152 thedopefishlives  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:56:04pm

re: #148 Vicious Babushka

First profile pic “cannot be loaded,” second choice is a TGDN favorite. Did I track that dirt in here? (Looks around guiltily, takes off muddy boots)

Don’t worry too much about it. It gives us something to do on a slow Monday night. It’s a cold night for grillin’, but the troll barbecue is hot and ready.

153 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:56:37pm

re: #149 SteveMcG

Well, then, were the Iraqis better off with Sadaam Hussein or the civil war?

They’re better off now that the war is over (though terrorism still goes on) and Saddam is gone.

154 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:56:56pm

re: #149 SteveMcG

Well, then, were the Iraqis better off with Sadaam Hussein or the civil war?

ARe children in prison?

Are people being tortured?

Is there due process?

Honestly, I haven’t followed the situation in Iran. It hasn’t come-up in my current research.

All reports do not dispute that the man was a Monster. He is gone, it’s time to move on.

155 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:57:16pm

TGDN’s most classy post EVER. (WARNING: So classy, click at your own risk, we are simple peasants and cannot appreciate the elite classiness)

156 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:57:54pm

re: #143 Gus

It’s a lot more complicated than are people making this appear. Right now the focus is on the Bush administration here. There’s more to this story.

Unfortunately the “more to the story” only leads to AIPAC, Likud, Mossad, New world order and the Military-Industrial Complex. I’m not sure if the partisan hacks or the “more to the story” crowd is worse. Serious discussion isn’t an option.

157 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:57:57pm

We only cared about Iraq because of oil.
Don’t be shocked or angered by this statement. ;)
I mean, when did we invade North Korea?
Or most of Africa with its terrible dictators?
We didn’t care about them. They had nothing we wanted. Simple.

158 klys  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:58:09pm

re: #151 Targetpractice

Wouldn’t have worked, Bush had to sell the sizzle, when he knew there was no steak. America was on an “anti-terrorism” kick and trying to sell the war on any other grounds would have fallen flat.

See: the conflict in Syria. Or Libya.

159 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:58:16pm

Oy. Some of the old anti-war memes are coming out again on Twitter. Cringing.

160 CuriousLurker  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:58:25pm

re: #141 FemNaziBitch

requested links cannot be loaded?

Hmm, they’re loading fine for me. Anyway the first one is one of the ones with POTUS with a fly on his lip (anti-Christ!) and the other is a photo of what looks like Asian soldiers (Chinese communists?) shooting kneeling people, with a bunch of scare mongering gibberish about socialists & gun control. IOW, typical loony wingnut imagery.

161 klys  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:59:09pm

re: #143 Gus

It’s a lot more complicated than are people making this appear. Right now the focus is on the Bush administration here. There’s more to this story.

Well, please share. I’m listening.

162 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:59:12pm

re: #160 CuriousLurker

Hmm, they’re loading fine for me. Anyway the first one is one of the ones with POTUS with a fly on his lip (anti-Christ!) and the other is a photo of what looks like Asian soldiers (Chinese communists?) shooting kneeling people, with a bunch of scare mongering gibberish about socialists & gun control. IOW, typical loony wingnut imagery.

Those are favorite TGDN memes.

163 CuriousLurker  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 6:59:58pm

re: #146 Vicious Babushka

Hey CL, I finally checked my gmail, sent you a reply!

Great, I was beginning t wonder if you still used the account!

164 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:00:08pm

re: #154 FemNaziBitch

ARe children in prison?

Are people being tortured?

Is there due process?

Honestly, I haven’t followed the situation in Iran. It hasn’t come-up in my current research.

All reports do not dispute that the man was a Monster. He is gone, it’s time to move on.

Due process is still a problem, but children are no longer put in prison, and the state-sanctioned rapes and amputations of the Saddam era are no more.

165 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:00:25pm

The Iraq war was purely sold on WMDs.
All the other justifications came about after we realized we weren’t going to find jack shit.

166 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:00:31pm

re: #157 Varek Raith

We only cared about Iraq because of oil.
Don’t be shocked or angered by this statement. ;)
I mean, when did we invade North Korea?
Or most of Africa with its terrible dictators?
We didn’t care about them. They had nothing we wanted. Simple.

We are screwed either way. The big thing after Vietnam was not to interfere where we had no “interest”. WE had “interest” in Iraq (I guess) and we are still fucked.

I think this is what frustrates me the most. He said/she said, finger pointing/gets us know where.

167 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:00:40pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

You keep ignoring that comment.
Funny, that.

Yes, slinks away, comes back when he think people have forgotten it, then goes on to lament lack of “serious discussion”.

Lulz.

168 SteveMcGazi  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:00:59pm

re: #154 FemNaziBitch

ARe children in prison?

Are people being tortured?

Is there due process?

Honestly, I haven’t followed the situation in Iran. It hasn’t come-up in my current research.

All reports do not dispute that the man was a Monster. He is gone, it’s time to move on.

Good question. Makes me wonder about how many children were in prison when he was in power. Reminds me of the time the Iraqis threw the babies out of the incubators in Kuwait

169 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:01:02pm

re: #163 CuriousLurker

Great, I was beginning t wonder if you still used the account!

I totally do but I forgot to check it for about a week.

170 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:01:18pm

re: #165 Varek Raith

The Iraq war was purely sold on WMDs.
All the other justifications came about after we realized we weren’t going to find jack shit.

I didn’t get that at the time. I remember a few more reasons. I wasn’t a selling point for me. But, I didn’t have a vote in the issue.

171 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:01:36pm

re: #155 Vicious Babushka

TGDN’s most classy post EVER. (WARNING: So classy, click at your own risk, we are simple peasants and cannot appreciate the elite classiness)

Slut shaming Obama’s mother… That’s so low its down in the earth’s mantle.

172 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:02:44pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

Slut shaming Obama’s mother… That’s so low its down in the earth’s mantle.

assuming it is her —and it’s not an unattractive picture.

I could think of much, much worse.

173 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:02:45pm

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

Slut shaming Obama’s mother… That’s so low its down in the earth’s mantle.

And that is a totally crappy Photoshop. These people so suck at Photoshop.

174 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:02:53pm

re: #161 klys

Well, please share. I’m listening.

Stuff like “Blood Money for oil company cronies.” A lot of the old “they must be tried for war crimes” comments.

175 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:02:53pm

re: #170 FemNaziBitch

I didn’t get that at the time. I remember a few more reasons. I wasn’t a selling point for me. But, I didn’t have a vote in the issue.

The other issues were always treated as secondary, mostly to beef up the whole WMD case. “He’s got these weapons, and even if you don’t think they’re a threat, he’s a very bad man who needs to go.”

Unfortunately, the world is filled with such very bad men, and we only seem to go after the ones who sit atop things we want.

176 CuriousLurker  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:03:29pm

re: #169 Vicious Babushka

I totally do but I forgot to check it for about a week.

I do the same thing sometimes, heh.

177 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:03:30pm

i guess i should be pleased that arvo part and steve reich are being cribbed from for movie music and commercials

178 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:04:33pm

re: #176 CuriousLurker

I do the same thing sometimes, heh.

I have a 2nd email and fb account, both of which I’ve forgotten the passwords for. :)

179 klys  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:04:45pm

re: #174 Gus

Stuff like “Blood Money for oil company cronies.” A lot of the old “they must be tried for war crimes” comments.

I’m going to assume those are the old anti-war memes being refreshed on Twitter and not the part where you said there was more to this story than people are talking about because they are focusing on the Bush administration. I’m more curious as to what the “more” is and am more than willing to have a serious discussion for the next half hour before I have to leave for harp.

180 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:04:49pm

TGDN totally has sex fantasies about blowing away the UPS man delivering a package from Amazon.com.

(Is there a way to embed Tweets without including the lame graphics?)

181 thedopefishlives  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:05:55pm

As an aside to the Iraq WMD discussion currently going on, one of the regulars over on the JREF forum says that units in his military brigade actually did find something when they were over in Iraq. Are there any legs to this, or was someone spinning him a tall tale? I know things got awful quiet from the pro-WMD crowd after no obvious smoking gun was produced.

182 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:06:24pm

re: #165 Varek Raith

The Iraq war was purely sold on WMDs.
All the other justifications came about after we realized we weren’t going to find jack shit.

the way i recall it is that once we went in and didn’t find the wmds there began an ever shifting kaleidoscope of justifications

also perhaps the administration didn’t realize that many of their fans in favor of the invasion expected us to go in, knock out saddam, and get out pdq

183 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:06:41pm

re: #179 klys

I’m going to assume those are the old anti-war memes being refreshed on Twitter and not the part where you said there was more to this story than people are talking about because they are focusing on the Bush administration. I’m more curious as to what the “more” is and am more than willing to have a serious discussion for the next half hour before I have to leave for harp.

Oh. I misread. Thought you were asking about #159.

184 bratwurst  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:06:57pm

re: #167 Interesting Times

Yes, slinks away, comes back when he think people have forgotten it, then goes on to lament lack of “serious discussion”.

Lulz.

Here he is engaging in more of his trademark serious analysis of the issues:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

He was undoubtedly sitting in a high back red upholstered chair wearing a tweed blazer when he wrote that.

185 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:07:23pm

re: #143 Gus

It’s a lot more complicated than are people making this appear. Right now the focus is on the Bush administration here. There’s more to this story.

Not really, no.

Both sides were wrong about what his real capabilities were. And the Iraq War was sold to the American public under false pretenses. These are not mutually exclusive things.

186 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:08:16pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

It’s not one little thing, it’s all the times I’ve seen nutty things he said. The general picture in my mind is that of a far-left moonbat who badly wants to ‘prove that Bush lied’.

No offense, but you’re the definition of a dead ender. Still defending the Iraq War all these years after its “lack of efficacy” has become painfully evident. Even your own party doesn’t want to talk about it…Republicans run away from the issue (and W and Cheney) as if it were infected with the Black Plague.

Prediction: none of us will live long enough to see the Iraq War vindicated by history. Most people, even in the GOP, have figured this out. Maybe someday you will too.

187 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:09:34pm

re: #182 engineer cat

the way i recall it is that once we went in and didn’t find the wmds there began an ever shifting kaleidoscope of justifications

also perhaps the administration didn’t realize that many of their fans in favor of the invasion expected us to go in, knock out saddam, and get out pdq

Of course we expected it to be quick. The US hadn’t run an occupation on the scale of Iraq in ages. Kosovo was the closest thing and it’d long since slipped America’s mind because nobody cares anymore. We were sold on a quick, cheap war that would see us sweep in, knock over the old regime, install a US-friendly one, and then sweep back out. Those who pointed out that Iraq was already in shambles and would require rebuilding were waved off, told that once freed from Saddam’s rule, the Iraqi people would rise up and quickly rebuild.

188 CuriousLurker  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:10:02pm

re: #184 bratwurst

Here he engaging in more of his trademark serious analysis of the issues:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

He was undoubtedly sitting in a high back red upholstered chair wearing a tweed blazer when he wrote that.

Wow, I hadn’t seen that one.

189 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:10:17pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’m still here but I’m not going to watch or debate Corn’s documentary. Sorry, but on this one Bush is still my man over Corn and I’m with him to the end.

Are you part lemming?

190 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:10:19pm

re: #149 SteveMcG

Well, then, were the Iraqis better off with Sadaam Hussein or the civil war?

i always felt it was the responsibility of the people of iraq to deal with their own fascist dictator, not us

how would we feel if another nation invaded us telling us, the united states of america, that they had come to fix our problems?

191 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:11:13pm

re: #190 engineer cat

i always felt it was the responsibility of the people of iraq to deal with their own fascist dictator, not us

how would we feel if another nation invaded us telling us, the united states of america, that they had come to fix our problems?

WOLVERINES!1!

192 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:11:20pm

re: #181 thedopefishlives

As an aside to the Iraq WMD discussion currently going on, one of the regulars over on the JREF forum says that units in his military brigade actually did find something when they were over in Iraq. Are there any legs to this, or was someone spinning him a tall tale? I know things got awful quiet from the pro-WMD crowd after no obvious smoking gun was produced.

There were chemical shells found that had traces of mustard gas, but they were not filled. The shells were in the hands of terrorists who were using them for IEDs (the shells still retained their bursting charges and Soviet shells were designed to produce lots of fragmentation).

193 Jimmah The Unacceptable  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:12:02pm

re: #184 bratwurst

Here he engaging in more of his trademark serious analysis of the issues:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

He was undoubtedly sitting in a high back red upholstered chair wearing a tweed blazer when he wrote that.

I actually have the live feed right here:

Image: RECORDPLAYER.gif

194 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:12:08pm

re: #190 engineer cat

i always felt it was the responsibility of the people of iraq to deal with their own fascist dictator, not us

how would we feel if another nation invaded us telling us, the united states of america, that they had come to fix our problems?

You have just described how wingnuts feel about President Obama.

195 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:12:21pm

re: #189 palomino

Are you part lemming?

No, but you can have a downding for the insult.

196 CuriousLurker  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:13:07pm

re: #193 Jimmah

I actually have the live feed right here:

Image: RECORDPLAYER.gif

Ha! That’s a great gif.

197 SteveMcGazi  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:14:37pm

re: #190 engineer cat

i always felt it was the responsibility of the people of iraq to deal with their own fascist dictator, not us

how would we feel if another nation invaded us telling us, the united states of america, that they had come to fix our problems?

Bad?

198 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:14:40pm

re: #124 Gus

Yes, but Clinton was smart and restrained enough not to start a war without an exit strategy based on that evidence…a war where the planners were tragically wrong on everything from its cost to its duration to its effect on Iraqi society.

199 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:14:49pm

re: #194 Vicious Babushka

You have just described how wingnuts feel about President Obama.

i suppose you’re right, but thinking of him as another nation invading us is a bit of a stretch even for a group of delusional morons

200 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:16:18pm

Peter Schiff, proud 1%er speaks out against minimum wage. Does anyone know this asshat’s net worth?

201 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:16:52pm

re: #199 engineer cat

i suppose you’re right, but thinking of him as another nation invading us is a bit of a stretch even for a group of delusional morons

No it’s totally not. That is exactly what they think.

202 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:17:02pm

re: #197 SteveMcG

Bad?

at best, even for all of them who desperately wanted saddam to be gone, they end up getting treated like children who are incapable of sorting out their own affairs without assistance

203 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:17:29pm

re: #195 Dark_Falcon

No, but you can have a downding for the insult.

Don’t be a wuss. You’re playing in the adult sandbox. If “Bush is my man to the end” is your stance, you’re going to have to expect something in the way of critique.

204 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:17:40pm

re: #199 engineer cat

i suppose you’re right, but thinking of him as another nation invading us is a bit of a stretch even for a group of delusional morons

Actually, it’s more like a nation from their worst fantasies invading them. Kinda of like the inmates taking over the asylum —Ken Kesey style. This is exactly what the Whackos™ think.

“Those” people are out of their place, we must knock them down.

insert whatever arbritrary trait you might want for “those”.

205 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:18:32pm

re: #203 palomino

Don’t be a wuss. You’re playing in the adult sandbox. If “Bush is my man to the end” is your stance, you’re going to have to expect something in the way of critique.

In adult sandboxes, you can get downdinged if you insult someone.

206 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:20:21pm

are we having an adult swim in an adult sandbox?

207 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:20:30pm

I’m tired and I have some photoshopping to do for a friend. They want me to fix a old pic of this gal in front of a xmas tree :)

Have a good one all!

208 SteveMcGazi  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:20:54pm

re: #206 engineer cat

are we having an adult swim in an adult sandbox?

Don’t eat the yellow sand.

209 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:21:14pm

Anyone here want to know what other countries thought of the US when you went into Iraq?

210 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:21:25pm

re: #209 b_sharp

Anyone here want to know what other countries thought of the US when you went into Iraq?

Indeed.

211 erik_t  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:21:44pm

re: #205 FemNaziBitch

In adult sandboxes, you can get downdinged if you insult someone.

Frankly, calling someone “part lemming” is a fair and sound critique if said someone is still stumping for Bush’s disaster of a war not less than nine years after everyone realized it was a really, really bad idea.

212 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:26:25pm

re: #190 engineer cat

i always felt it was the responsibility of the people of iraq to deal with their own fascist dictator, not us

how would we feel if another nation invaded us telling us, the united states of america, that they had come to fix our problems?

There’s no comparison, and the the Iraqi people would likely never have been able to get rid of Saddam. Don’t forget how powerful and adept his apparatus of state terror.

213 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:26:30pm

OT: The vote breakdown on ViolenceAgainstWomenAct.

Dems: 100% yea (55 votes)

Republican women: 100% yea (but only 4 votes total)

Republican men: 46% yea, 54% nay (19 yea votes, 22 nay)

Where’s that new GOP that’s supposedly sensitive to women’s issues?

214 thedopefishlives  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:27:22pm

re: #213 palomino

OT: The vote breakdown on ViolenceAgainstWomenAct.

Dems: 100% yea (55 votes)

Republican women: 100% yea (but only 4 votes total)

Republican men: 46% yea, 54% nay (19 yea votes, 22 nay)

Where’s that new GOP that’s supposedly sensitive to women’s issues?

You must have misheard them. They’re sensitive to MEN’S issues. Rehashing the glory days when anyone not white or male was property.

215 SteveMcGazi  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:27:23pm

re: #212 Dark_Falcon

There’s no comparison, and the the Iraqi people would likely never have been able to get rid of Saddam. Don’t forget how powerful and adept his apparatus of state terror.

Don’t forget either how weak the “nation” of Iraq really is.

216 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:28:05pm

re: #205 FemNaziBitch

In adult sandboxes, you can get downdinged if you insult someone.

“Are you a lemming?” is an insult when it’s in response to the statement “Bush is my man to the very end”? C’mon, there’s not even any profanity.

217 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:30:54pm

re: #213 palomino

Where’s that new GOP that’s supposedly sensitive to women’s issues?

They’re busy trying to find a kinder, gentler way to shove a transvaginal ultrasound wand up a woman’s vagina while slut shaming her with a smile on their face.

218 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:31:27pm

re: #212 Dark_Falcon

There’s no comparison, and the the Iraqi people would likely never have been able to get rid of Saddam. Don’t forget how powerful and adept his apparatus of state terror.

Are you a stegosaurus?

219 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:31:29pm

re: #212 Dark_Falcon

There’s no comparison, and the the Iraqi people would likely never have been able to get rid of Saddam. Don’t forget how powerful and adept his apparatus of state terror.

oh, indeed yes there is a comparison: the issue is not whether or not the people of iraq would have been able to get rid of saddam, it’s about other nations violating the independence of another sovereign nation

i put it to you directly: can you, as a citizen of the United States of America, imagine a scenario where you would welcome another nation coming in here and taking control of the affairs of this nation and telling us what kind of government we should or shouldn’t be choosing?

220 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:33:15pm

When the US went into Afghanistan there was enormous support, countries like Canada were willing to put money and men in the fight against those who attacked on 9/11.

This support was almost unanimous across the political spectrum.

When the US talked about going into Iraq to continue the fight against the terrorists because Iraq was putatively an immediate threat, but information coming from the UN inspectors was that the threat wasn’t there, support started to wane.

When the US actually entered Iraq based on sketchy justifications the sentiment changed to one of disbelief and frustration.

A comment I heard frequently was along the lines of ‘who made them the neighbourhood police/bully’.

221 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:35:03pm

The US squandered a lot of international support.

222 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:35:05pm

would have been able to get rid of iraq

get rid of saddam

223 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:35:48pm

re: #219 engineer cat

oh, indeed yes there is a comparison: the issue is not whether or not the people of iraq would have been able to get rid of iraq, it’s about other nations violating the independence of another sovereign nation

i put it to you directly: can you, as a citizen of the United States of America, imagine a scenario where you would welcome another nation coming in here and taking control of the affairs of this nation and telling us what kind of government we should or shouldn’t be choosing?

If things were bad enough, yes.

224 blueraven  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:36:33pm

re: #39 Gus

I did not vote in 2000 because Lieberman was on the VP ticket. 9/11 came along and things started to change fast. The hunt was on for the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Offers were made for the Taliban to surrender which fell on deaf ears and the war was on. When the news came about Iraq I could only respond with, “what?” Watching Colin Powell make his case in the UN raised my bullshit meter to about 10.

By 2004 I was already gun ho and didn’t want the USA to withdraw before they cleaned up the mess they created in Iraq. Yes, it was its very own mess under Saddam Hussein but, apples and oranges. I voted for Bush to end the war. Things finally started getting much better after Robert Gates replaced Donald Rumsfeld. I went on to vote for McCain in 2008.

Part of my support was fueled by the words of Christopher Hitchens much of which I still agree with to this day. A lot of people died, yes, but the Iraq War has given the Iraqi people an enormous gift now that it’s been freed from the shackles of Hussein’s dictatorship.

I have no apologies for voting for George W. Bush.

That is all admirable Gus and you should not apologize. I am sure many Bush voters feel the same way. But I submit there are many who would not have voted for him if the full truth had been known.
The American people deserve to know the truth about why we go to war. A war in which many young people lost their lives.
How many of those young people might not have volunteered to fight in a war if they knew there were no WMDs?

225 bratwurst  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:36:42pm

re: #221 b_sharp

The US squandered a lot of international support.

Whatever your view of the war or Bush himself, this is absolutely positively indisputable.

226 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:37:42pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

No, you’re a Brachiosaurus.

/Ask a silly question…

227 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:39:28pm

re: #214 thedopefishlives

You must have misheard them. They’re sensitive to MEN’S issues. Rehashing the glory days when anyone not white or male was property.

On that note, here’s the approximate breakdown of members of Congress:

1) Women in Congress — over 70% Dem
2) Hispanics — over 70% Dem
3) Blacks — 98% Dem
4) Jews — 98% Dem
5) Other Non-Christians — 100% Dem
6) Openly Gay — 100% Dem

What we have is one modern party, and one party from the middle of the last century. Eventually that will change, but not between now and your next breath.

228 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:40:23pm

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

No, you’re a Brachiosaurus.

/Ask a silly question…

Yeah, got too serious.
Had to be silly.

229 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:40:41pm

Is it over?

230 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:40:52pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

If things were bad enough, yes.

what then should i call you, person who would welcome another country invading the United States of America and “fixing our problems”?

231 blueraven  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:41:10pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

If things were bad enough, yes.

bullshit

232 jaunte  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:41:56pm

More of that laser-like focus on jobs.

233 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:42:30pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

If things were bad enough, yes.

Things can never get that bad. We have the NRA, tea partiers and lots of Ted Nugent wannabes who, armed to the teeth, will protect us from all enemies foreign and domestic.

234 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:43:25pm

re: #229 Gus

Is it over?

No, the FEMA drones are still in the air.

235 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:43:36pm

re: #227 palomino

What we have is one modern party, and one party from the middle of the last century. Eventually that will change, but not between now and your next breath.

I object to the notion that the GOP is from the middle of the last century. I’m not convinced they’ve even joined the 20th Century, given their retrograde ideas about everything, including science.

236 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:44:29pm

So I guess we have new rules. One program on MSNBC put together by the highly partisan and left wingers David Corn and Rachel Maddow tells the complete, accurate, and peer reviewed account of the lead up to the Iraq War and it’s accepted as fact from start to finish. No fact-checking. No counter claims. Just one show. End of story. This must be a new kind of “science” that I never heard of.

Feel free to down ding this. I have plenty of Karma to spare. But seriously folks. This is pretty funny.

237 CuriousLurker  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:44:57pm

re: #219 engineer cat

oh, indeed yes there is a comparison: the issue is not whether or not the people of iraq would have been able to get rid of iraq, it’s about other nations violating the independence of another sovereign nation

i put it to you directly: can you, as a citizen of the United States of America, imagine a scenario where you would welcome another nation coming in here and taking control of the affairs of this nation and telling us what kind of government we should or shouldn’t be choosing?

It’s a bit of a non sequitur, but one of the things I remember most about the Iraq war was seeing a military officer on one of the cable news shows and discussing the disovling of Iraq’s army.

He basically said that it was a major screw up, that as a career military man himself, he could totally understand their post-dismissal actions—i.e. if his country was invaded by foreigners, he didn’t know how to do anything else but be a soldier, and he found himself suddenly dismissed without any way to feed & care for his family, then he’d probably have become an insurgent as well.

238 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:45:08pm

that i ever might see the day when another country, in the absence of any requests from us, would feel that they were entitled to come over here and take control of our destiny, and that there would be some americans who were somehow pleased to think of themselves as patriots for welcoming it, i sincerely hope never to have to witness

“i, for one, welcome our new insect overlords!”

239 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:46:40pm

re: #236 Gus

We had eight years of counter-claims as official US policy.

240 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:47:02pm

re: #41 Lidane

Iraq? Still a war over oil. And nothing but a revenge fantasy by Dubya and Darth Cheney to “redeem” Bush I. Nothing more.

Myself? I agree with Gwynne Dyer’s hypothesis in Future Tense. The invasion of Iraq was a message to the rest of the world. The message was, “We are in charge and this is what happens to people who get in our way. Do as you’re told or this will happen to you.”

It was meant to be the start of Pax Americana. The oil was a bonus but not the central reason.

241 blueraven  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:48:33pm

re: #236 Gus

So I guess we have new rules. One program on MSNBC put together by the highly partisan and left winger David Corn and Rachel Maddow tells the complete, accurate, and peer reviewed account of the lead up to the Iraq War and it’s accepted as fact from start to finish. No fact-checking. No counter claims. Just one show. End of story. This must be a new kind of “science” that I never heard of.

Feel free to down ding this. I have plenty of Karma to spare. But seriously folks. This is pretty funny.

David Corn and Micheal Isikoff.
Rachel Maddow just hosted it on her show.

242 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:49:09pm

re: #235 Lidane

I object to the notion that the GOP is from the middle of the last century. I’m not convinced they’ve even joined the 20th Century, given their retrograde ideas about everything, including science.

Objection sustained, you’re right.

Today’s TP/GOP sees the Progressive Movement of the early 1900’s as the time America began going off the rails…with its child labor laws, rights for women, direct election of US senators, public education, and other horrible developments.

243 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:49:58pm

re: #236 Gus

So I guess we have new rules. One program on MSNBC put together by the highly partisan and left wingers David Corn and Rachel Maddow tells the complete, accurate, and peer reviewed account of the lead up to the Iraq War and it’s accepted as fact from start to finish. No fact-checking. No counter claims. Just one show. End of story

Who said that?

244 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:50:58pm

re: #232 jaunte

More of that laser-like focus on jobs.

That bill is unconstitutional on its face.

245 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:51:00pm

re: #236 Gus

So I guess we have new rules. One program on MSNBC put together by the highly partisan and left wingers David Corn and Rachel Maddow tells the complete, accurate, and peer reviewed account of the lead up to the Iraq War and it’s accepted as fact from start to finish. No fact-checking. No counter claims. Just one show. End of story. This must be a new kind of “science” that I never heard of.

Feel free to down ding this. I have plenty of Karma to spare. But seriously folks. This is pretty funny.

Do you have evidence that this isn’t accurate? I thought most of this had been hashed out over the last 10 years. If not I’d be interested in it.

246 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:51:16pm

re: #239 Lidane

We had eight years of counter-claims as official US policy.

Yes, but I’m a little puzzled by the seemingly blind acceptance of everything that was said in this program.

247 bratwurst  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:51:37pm

re: #236 Gus

One program on MSNBC put together by the highly partisan and left wingers David Corn and Rachel Maddow tells the complete, accurate, and peer reviewed account of the lead up to the Iraq War and it’s accepted as fact from start to finish.

Nobody here even came close to claiming anything like this, nor has anyone here said they accept this one hour show or the book it is based on to be the gospel truth.

248 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:51:43pm

re: #236 Gus

So I guess we have new rules. One program on MSNBC put together by the highly partisan and left wingers David Corn and Rachel Maddow tells the complete, accurate, and peer reviewed account of the lead up to the Iraq War and it’s accepted as fact from start to finish. No fact-checking. No counter claims. Just one show. End of story. This must be a new kind of “science” that I never heard of.

Feel free to down ding this. I have plenty of Karma to spare. But seriously folks. This is pretty funny.

What are you talking about? You’re losing me here, Gus.

I won’t down-ding it, but it’s pretty interesting who’s up-dinging.

249 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:51:45pm

re: #243 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Who said that?

I’m also referring to my Twitter feed. Just a general gist.

250 palomino  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:52:23pm

re: #243 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Who said that?

No one.

251 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:52:59pm

re: #248 Charles Johnson

What are you talking about? You’re losing me here, Gus.

I won’t down-ding it, but it’s pretty interesting who’s up-dinging.

Right. I know. “Guilt” by association.

252 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:54:09pm

re: #248 Charles Johnson

What are you talking about? You’re losing me here, Gus.

I won’t down-ding it, but it’s pretty interesting who’s up-dinging.

re: #251 Gus

Right. I know. “Guilt” by association.

Guilty as charged

253 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:54:22pm

re: #251 Gus

Right. I know. “Guilt” by association.

Really, that’s what you think I meant?

254 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:54:45pm

re: #246 Gus

Yes, but I’m a little puzzled by the seemingly blind acceptance of everything that was said in this program.

Maybe because we had eight years of complete and total bullshit as US policy, costing us billions of dollars, thousands of lives, and our credibility as a nation?

It was clear to anyone who cared to look at the time that the Bush case for war in Iraq was total horseshit. Everyone was wrong about his capabilities. And we got lied into a war under false pretenses. This was obvious in 2004. I don’t see why it’s controversial to have it pointed out now in 2013.

255 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:54:51pm

re: #253 Charles Johnson

Really, that’s what you think I meant?

Why do you think I updinged him?

256 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:55:17pm

I’m puzzled where this animosity is coming from, but I guess there’s some kind of issue being worked out.

257 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:55:53pm

re: #255 sattv4u2

Why do you think I updinged him?

I’m not surprised in the least. Did you think you were hiding it?

258 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:55:54pm

re: #246 Gus

Yes, but I’m a little puzzled by the seemingly blind acceptance of everything that was said in this program.

Nothing I’ve heard so far has even been controversial. The big debate over the build up to the Iraq war is basically: did the Bush administration get carried away in looking for the result they wanted, and fool themselves, too, or was it consciously making this case because of other motivations for the invasion.

That the yellow cake wasn’t true, that the mobile weapons labs weren’t true, that there weren’t WMDs shipped off to Syria, etc, is the facts on record.

259 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:56:22pm

re: #257 Charles Johnson

I’m not surprised in the least. Did you think you were hiding it?

I didn’t ask if you were surprised, and I made no attempt to hide it

260 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:56:48pm

re: #259 sattv4u2

And I didn’t really ask you anything.

261 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:57:00pm

re: #252 sattv4u2

re: #251 Gus

Guilty as charged

Do you have any information some of the claims in the film are inaccurate? Were there WMDs found? Is there evidence the Bush administration really believed the info they pushed?

262 jaunte  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:57:33pm

re: #258 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

That the yellow cake wasn’t true, that the mobile weapons labs weren’t true, that there weren’t WMDs shipped off to Syria, etc, is the facts on record.

Maybe there’s a current argument against those facts that should be considered, but I haven’t heard it.

263 Single-handed sailor  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:58:12pm

I am so glad I am stoned.

264 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:58:29pm

re: #249 Gus

I’m also referring to my Twitter feed. Just a general gist.

I have the same impression. It’s a post mortem.

265 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:58:43pm

re: #263 Single-handed sailor

O am so glad I am stoned.

Quit bogartin’ the bong.

//

266 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:59:08pm

re: #252 sattv4u2

Can’t help but recall, especially since the comment was mentioned upthread, that you also updinged this.

/contrarianism is a hell of a drug!

267 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:59:31pm

re: #261 b_sharp

Do you have any information some of the claims in the film are inaccurate?

I didn’t see the film, nor did I comment on it

Were there WMDs found?

nope
Is there evidence the Bush administration really believed the info they pushed?

I think he believed the info. Whether it’s because he wanted to or was convinced to or coerced to i have not a clue

268 Single-handed sailor  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:59:46pm

re: #265 Targetpractice

I knew some ass would quote me before I fixed the typo.
/

269 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 7:59:55pm

I think it’s great to get this passive aggressive bullshit out into the open. Seriously. I prefer it to the cowardly sniping.

270 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:00:17pm

re: #268 Single-handed sailor

I knew some ass would quote me before I fixed the typo.

*takes a bow*

271 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:01:11pm

re: #266 Interesting Times

Can’t help but recall, especially since it was indicated upthread, that you also updinged this.

/contrarianism is a hell of a drug!

11/13/2011 6:50:38 pm PST

wow. been keeping that one in the chamber for awhile huh!!

I’m flattered !!

272 Lidane  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:02:14pm

OUTRAGE!

273 bratwurst  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:02:36pm

re: #271 sattv4u2

11/13/2011 6:50:38 pm PST

wow. been keeping that one in the chamber for awhile huh!!

I’m flattered !!

I guess you would have no problem being accused of any of those things around here, right?

274 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:02:45pm

re: #249 Gus

I’m also referring to my Twitter feed. Just a general gist.

Okay, I haven’t watched the show, but again, nothing I’ve heard so far is controversial. What is it that’s been referenced in the thread that you think isn’t factually accurate?

275 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:04:11pm

re: #273 bratwurst

I guess you would have no problem being accused of any of those things around here, right?

I’ve been accused of all manner of things here I’ve never said, intimated, believe or think

276 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:04:12pm

re: #267 sattv4u2

Do you have any information some of the claims in the film are inaccurate?

I didn’t see the film, nor did I comment on it

Were there WMDs found?

nope
Is there evidence the Bush administration really believed the info they pushed?

I think he believed the info. Whether it’s because he wanted to or was convinced to or coerced to i have not a clue

No, but you updinged Gus, meaning you agreed with his comment which implied we aren’t considering available contrary information.

277 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:04:35pm

So when do we stop playing around and take this to Thunderdome?

//

278 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:05:44pm

re: #275 sattv4u2

I’ve been accused of all manner of things here I’ve never said, intimated, believe or think

re: #276 b_sharp

No, but you updinged Gus, meaning you agreed with his comment which implied we aren’t considering available contrary information.

Thanks. I forgot implied to my 275

279 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:05:48pm

re: #271 sattv4u2

As I said, if you’d read, it was already mentioned upthread :)

And this too! Again, contrarianism must be a hell of a drug o_O

280 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:05:55pm

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

The former, plus a desire to give Tony Blair political cover. George Bush could have sued Saddam Hussein’s other actions and sold taking him out to America, but Blair was worried such a course would be seen as ‘illegal’ in the UK, since it would have been done in support of a Security Council resolution but without the SC authorizing force (which Russia and China were never going to allow). WMD’s were thought the route that would give Blair the needed justification.

In retrospect, we should have let the British stand aside, made a stronger case and then gone it alone. in that scenario, the rape rooms and children’s prison we found would have helped prove the justification, instead of being seen as excuses for its failure.

Save for the fact that isn’t enough reason under international law to invade another country. Only if attacked by another country or with approval of the UN Security Council can a country be invaded. If Nazi Germany was still around and hadn’t invaded any of its neighbours the Holocaust would not be enough reason to invade under international law.

It sucks but the alternative is the international chaos that preceded WWI. Such a situation would result in WWIII, and this time all the major combatants would have nuclear weapons.

The present system of international law is less than perfect but it’s way better than the alternative. Which is why Bush invaded Iraq. He and his cronies wanted the present system dead and replaced with Pax Americana.

281 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:06:34pm

re: #275 sattv4u2

I’ve been accused of all manner of things here I’ve never said, intimated, believe or think

Sorry dude, but I had to accuse you of being bigfoot.

282 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:06:47pm

The passive aggressive reaction to the Corn-Isikoff documentary has made me decide to record it for later, when I plan to see how difficult it is to masturbate to.

283 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:07:50pm

re: #274 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Okay, I haven’t watched the show, but again, nothing I’ve heard so far is controversial. What is it that’s been referenced in the thread that you think isn’t factually accurate?

I don’t think you’re going to get an answer.

284 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:07:57pm

re: #281 b_sharp

Sorry dude, but I had to accuse you of being bigfoot.

You’ve seen the photo of my unshaved back, I guess!

285 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:07:58pm

re: #240 Romantic Heretic

Myself? I agree with Gwynne Dyer’s hypothesis in Future Tense. The invasion of Iraq was a message to the rest of the world. The message was, “We are in charge and this is what happens to people who get in our way. Do as you’re told or this will happen to you.”

It was meant to be the start of Pax Americana. The oil was a bonus but not the central reason.

i wrote a long screed about this but erased it

in fact, everything you need to know about Pax Americana can be deduced from the fact that we maintain a large forward military base at diego garcia in the middle of the fucking indian fucking ocean ferchrissakes

the empire is here and we am it

286 engineer cat  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:09:38pm

re: #275 sattv4u2

I’ve been accused of all manner of things here I’ve never said, intimated, believe or think

have some sympathy, then, for us “libberuls”, who might at any time be instructed by wingnuts that we think and believe all the things that rush limbaugh tells millions of his fans everyday that we think and believe

287 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:10:52pm

re: #159 Gus

Oy. Some of the old anti-war memes are coming out again on Twitter. Cringing.

examples. where were anti Iraq peeps wrong?

288 Stanley Sea  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:11:49pm

re: #209 b_sharp

Anyone here want to know what other countries thought of the US when you went into Iraq?

therefore, freedom fries

289 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:11:52pm

re: #283 Charles Johnson

I don’t think you’re going to get an answer.

Actually, I’ve been thinking of some answers and have been typing some thoughts and revising them. Don’t know what else to say anymore if anything.

290 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:12:32pm

re: #278 sattv4u2

re: #276 b_sharp

Thanks. I forgot implied to my 275

Satt, we only have one way to communicate, so we have to draw inferences from things like updings and down dings as well as questions and statements.

Gus’s comment implied we were ignoring information.
Up dings commonly indicate agreement.
You up dinged Gus’s comment.
I inferred you agreed because you have access to that information.

That rough syllogism isn’t uncalled for or illogical.
If it’s wrong then just say so and I’ll adjust my question.

291 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:13:16pm

I’m going to clear out for the night. I’ve got to prep for work tomorrow.

292 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:17:55pm

re: #289 Gus

Actually, I’ve been thinking of some answers and have been typing some thoughts and revising them. Don’t know what else to say anymore if anything.

Well, just hit me with anything that was in the show that’s either wrong or talks about something that’s really controversial as though it’s proved one way or the other.

So far I’m more baffled that the show happened, since this isn’t exactly breaking news.

293 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:23:18pm

re: #292 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Well, just hit me with anything that was in the show that’s either wrong or talks about something that’s really controversial as though it’s proved one way or the other.

So far I’m more baffled that the show happened, since this isn’t exactly breaking news.

I’m just tired of the squabbling. It’s all turned into just “get Killgore, Dark Falcon, Satt, and NJD.”

294 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:24:37pm

re: #290 b_sharp

Satt, we only have one way to communicate, so we have to draw inferences from things like updings and down dings as well as questions and statements.

Gus’s comment implied we were ignoring information.
Up dings commonly indicate agreement.
You up dinged Gus’s comment.
I inferred you agreed because you have access to that information.

That rough syllogism isn’t uncalled for or illogical.
If it’s wrong then just say so and I’ll adjust my question.

Moral support. I (re)entered the thread shortly before Gus posted that. From the tonality of it i surmised that the discussion had been ongoing and he saw (as he stated) “it’s accepted as fact from start to finish.”, meaning he had seen no criticisms. I figured he’d be downdinged hard, so as stated, a little support

295 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:25:31pm

re: #293 Gus

Moral support upding again!!!

296 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:27:58pm

re: #294 sattv4u2

Moral support. I (re)entered the thread shortly before Gus posted that. From the tonality of it i surmised that the discussion had been ongoing and he saw (as he stated) “it’s accepted as fact from start to finish.”, meaning he had seen no criticisms. I figured he’d be downdinged hard, so as stated, a little support

Gotcha.

297 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:29:57pm

re: #293 Gus

I’m just tired of the squabbling. It’s all turned into just “get Killgore, Dark Falcon, Satt, and NJD.”

What the fuck does that have to do with you saying that the new rule is that this documentary is perfect and can’t be criticized?

Killgore says a lot of dumb shit and gets it in the neck for it. It’s his own choice to say the bizarre and often completely untrue things he does. It’s been his schtick for a long time. Dark says things like hoping a climate change rally will fail because it weakens the left, even though he knows how dangerous climate change is. Satt is just his own special snowflake.

And I still think Killgore is performance art.

298 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:30:15pm

re: #296 b_sharp

Gotcha.

See?

Nothing nefarious
Nothing sinister
No agenda
I take each comment in a vacuum. I could downding someone (rare for me too) on one post then upding their next.

299 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:30:31pm

Dark Falcon still supports Bush. So what. There are people like that in this world. I don’t agree per se. But that’s controversial? Do you really expect that everyone is going to be on the same page as you? Even when you were once on that very same page? Isn’t there even at least one ounce of empathy? Can you say throbbing memos? Some of us are arguing against the same people we used to be.

300 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:31:01pm

re: #297 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

What the fuck does that have to do with you saying that the new rule is that this documentary is perfect and can’t be criticized?

Killgore says a lot of dumb shit and gets it in the neck for it. It’s his own choice to say the bizarre and often completely untrue things he does. It’s been his schtick for a long time. Dark says things like hoping a climate change rally will fail because, even though he knows how dangerous climate change is. Satt is just his own special snowflake.

And I still think Killgore is performance art.

Ouch. “What the fuck.”

301 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:31:15pm

re: #297 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Satt is just his own special snowflake.

Gee
Thanks

Do I get the lead in the Winter Spectacular?

302 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:32:19pm

It’s always interesting to see anti-war people be so aggressive.

303 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:32:45pm

re: #301 sattv4u2

Satt is just his own special snowflake.

Gee
Thanks

Do I get the lead in the Winter Spectacular?

I updinged you! Guess I’m in trouble now. //

304 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:33:00pm

re: #302 Gus

It’s always interesting to see anti-war people be so aggressive.

Carry this peace sign or I’ll hit you with it!
/

305 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:33:15pm

re: #299 Gus

Dark Falcon still supports Bush. So what. There are people like that in this world. I don’t agree per se. But that’s controversial? Do you really expect that everyone is going to be on the same page as you? Even when you were once on that very same page? Isn’t there even at least one ounce of empathy? Can you say throbbing memos? Some of us are arguing against the same people we used to be.

For fuck’s sake, they’re not being put into a life raft with a hunk of seal blubber and set adrift in the arctic. They’re being criticized when they say stuff. On a website. Why is that such a big deal? I just don’t fucking get it. What are you talking about empathy for?

306 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:33:28pm

re: #303 Gus

I updinged you! Guess I’m in trouble now. //

I guess you’re “special” too~!!

307 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:33:29pm

But we’re all about peace. Yeah right. LOL I need a smoke.

308 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:35:37pm

You should read this..
Well Shit! It is so complex to isolate a few reasons about Iraq. I have come to respect Rachel. I know she has to spoon feed people about reasons of the political winds. We know there were tons of reasons for going to war in Iraq. I have my own views that is just as right as pundits with PH.d’s.
After 911 I supported going to kick AQ’s effen ass! And because our other wars never seen an end. I felt we needed to declare a 2 year war with the might of the US and level those bastards. and then rebuild our relationships in the ME with treaties and diplomacy and continue to be that fucking shinning light on the hill. Do we remember all the emotions then?
America was a wounded animal, hurting. A real leader like Lincoln had skill to begin reconstruction and healing. I was shocked about when Iraq come into play. A pissy 3rd world country beating their chest like everybody else does.
( At least we had leadership in the 60’s with a crazy Russia with 10000 nukes program to destroy us.
All that is my feelings.. But mine has more credence.
When Jordan called from Camp P. telling us he is deploying with 3/5th Marines to Iraq all our lives changes in our family. I was stunned and pained. Why is Bush sending Jordan to Iraq to fight a stupid fucking war.
Jordan fought in the longest baddest battle in Fallujah. He showed me the pics also. We never sleep. many times at 3am we would get a sat phone call from him from a roof top during gun fire in the background ( he could only get the phone once or so a week at 3am our time ) I could never go to sleep worried about him. I am so proud of him for protecting our freedoms. Why waste him for no good reason? I never got this out of my mind..Pics snuck back of firefights where the enemy were laid waste with women and children as human shield..My son blew woman and babies heads off. Bodies and blood and human parts laying about. Later Jordan confessed to me that when walking in the warehouse through the carnage there was a baby screaming on the floor half of his body and arms gone screaming madly when he should be dead.. He just would not stop screaming. Jordan told me with a tear in his eyes he shot him to put him out of his misery.. And for what? To make a Marine go through Hell for nothing but to finish up Daddies failure?
I should stop now unless anybody has a intellectual difference with me.

309 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:35:49pm

re: #307 Gus

But we’re all about peace. Yeah right. LOL I need a smoke.

Me too

And i quit 30+ years ago!!!

310 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:36:06pm

I am so glad I’m wearing my aluminum foil hat.

311 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:36:27pm

re: #300 Gus

Ouch. “What the fuck.”

Forget it. I’m going to bed. You’re making no sense, and you can’t answer the direct question. I’m completely willing to believe that this show had serious flaws. Nothing I’ve seen so far is even controversial. I invited you to show me something in the show that was factually incorrect or even just heavily one-sided on a controversial subject, and you didn’t. You’re still not. Now it’s about how people are mean. It’s not about factual accuracy of the show anymore.

I can’t follow whatever the hell is going on, and fuck is a beautiful word goddamn it, don’t harsh on it and it’s unknown provenance.

312 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:36:41pm

re: #310 b_sharp

I am so glad I’m wearing my aluminum foil hat.

It goes well with your Saran Wrap undies

313 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:38:21pm

re: #308 HoosierHoops

You should read this..
Well Shit! It is so complex to isolate a few reasons about Iraq. I have come to respect Rachel. I know she has to spoon feed people about reasons of the political winds. We know there were tons of reasons for going to war in Iraq. I have my own views that is just as right as pundits with PH.d’s.
After 911 I supported going to kick AQ’s effen ass! And because our other wars never seen an end. I felt we needed to declare a 2 year war with the might of the US and level those bastards. and then rebuild our relationships in the ME with treaties and diplomacy and continue to be that fucking shinning light on the hill. Do we remember all the emotions then?
America was a wounded animal, hurting. A real leader like Lincoln had skill to begin reconstruction and healing. I was shocked about when Iraq come into play. A pissy 3rd world country beating their chest like everybody else does.
( At least we had leadership in the 60’s with a crazy Russia with 10000 nukes program to destroy us.
All that is my feelings.. But mine has more credence.
When Jordan called from Camp P. telling us he is deploying with 3/5th Marines to Iraq all our lives changes in our family. I was stunned and pained. Why is Bush sending Jordan to Iraq to fight a stupid fucking war.
Jordan fought in the longest baddest battle in Fallujah. He showed me the pics also. We never sleep. many times at 3am we would get a sat phone call from him from a roof top during gun fire in the background ( he could only get the phone once or so a week at 3am our time ) I could never go to sleep worried about him. I am so proud of him for protecting our freedoms. Why waste him for no good reason? I never got this out of my mind..Pics snuck back of firefights where the enemy were laid waste with women and children as human shield..My son blew woman and babies heads off. Bodies and blood and human parts laying about. Later Jordan confessed to me that when walking in the warehouse through the carnage there was a baby screaming on the floor half of his body and arms gone screaming madly when he should be dead.. He just would not stop screaming. Jordan told me with a tear in his eyes he shot him to put him out of his misery.. And for what? To make a Marine go through Hell for nothing but to finish up Daddies failure?
I should stop now unless anybody has a intellectual difference with me.

{{{Hoops}}}

314 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:38:22pm

re: #311 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Forget it. I’m going to bed. You’re making no sense, and you can’t answer the direct question. I’m completely willing to believe that this show had serious flaws. Nothing I’ve seen so far is even controversial. I invited you to show me something in the show that was factually incorrect or even just heavily one-sided on a controversial subject, and you didn’t. You’re still not. Now it’s about how people are mean. It’s not about factual accuracy of the show anymore.

I can’t follow whatever the hell is going on, and fuck is a beautiful word goddamn it, don’t harsh on it and it’s unknown provenance.

Copy that.

315 b_sharp  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:39:02pm

re: #312 sattv4u2

It goes well with your Saran Wrap undies

Unfortunately.

316 Gus  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:39:41pm

We just need to lighten up is all.

317 Interesting Times  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:39:54pm

re: #308 HoosierHoops

I’m speechless. Except for one request: Could you repost this in the new thread? More people need to see it (hell, all of America needs to see it, but we take what we can get)

318 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:42:15pm

re: #316 Gus

We just need to lighten up is all.

I think I get what you’re saying and to a degree, I’m in agreement. There is at times the tendency to pile-on and get confrontational. But at the same time, the folks doing so now were the ones getting shit on a decade ago. I’m one of the old-timers, I remember the sort of shit that got dropped onto the heads of the folks who are now being vindicated for their nay-saying and criticism of the war effort.

319 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Feb 18, 2013 8:49:22pm

re: #308 HoosierHoops

*HUGS* for you and your brave son.

320 Shvaughn  Tue, Feb 19, 2013 1:03:43am

re: #293 Gus

I’m just tired of the squabbling. It’s all turned into just “get Killgore, Dark Falcon, Satt, and NJD.”

What’s the difference between “disagree with” and “get”?

321 Shvaughn  Tue, Feb 19, 2013 1:07:21am

re: #307 Gus

But we’re all about peace. Yeah right. LOL I need a smoke.

“Anti-war means that you don’t engage in the violence of down-dinging someone on a web site!”

Really, dude, a down-ding is 100% non-violent objection.

322 jamesfirecat  Tue, Feb 19, 2013 2:41:59pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

I’m still here but I’m not going to watch or debate Corn’s documentary. Sorry, but on this one Bush is still my man over Corn and I’m with him to the end.

Blind loyalty gives people good will they do not deserve and denies good en a chance to be heard why do you trust Bush over Corn what did Bush do to earn your trust?


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HamSandwich
Activist who urged killing Israelis nominated for top EU award
Alaa Abdel Fattah, 32, an Egyptian blogger and political activist, has been arrested numerous times by Egyptian authorities since the eruption of a popular revolution in the country in early 2011. Abdel Fattah, who boasts 626,000 followers on Twitter ...

1 day, 19 hours ago
Views: 209 • Comments: 0
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 1
Rightwingconspirator
Visiting Mt Wilson And It’s Dramatic Weather
All taken just yesterday. Canon 7D and a Tamron lens. The clouds ripping through were just amazing. And some stunning Fall color in unexpected places

1 day, 22 hours ago
Views: 216 • Comments: 5
Tweets: 2 • Rating: 6
Souliren
Dropkick Murphys - Celtic punk from the USA?
I never heard of these guys until a half hour ago. Apparently they are famous. A Celtic punk band from Massachusetts? There is art here. The Rose Tattoo I'm shipping up to Boston.

3 days, 22 hours ago
Views: 453 • Comments: 17
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 5
CriticalDragon1177
Secular Talk - Limbaugh’s Sidekick: Segregation Was The ‘Good Ole’ Days’ (Video)
KYle Kulinski, exposes the stupidity of "Snerdley,"

6 days, 4 hours ago
Views: 798 • Comments: 12
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 3
darthstar
Darth offered cup of virtual coffee after snark
Yep. There it is. littlegreenfootballs.com

6 days, 10 hours ago
Views: 567 • Comments: 2
Tweets: 2 • Rating: 6
 Frank says:

This is Frank Zappa saying, Don't do speed. Speed turns you into your parents. -- this used to play OFTEN as a public service announcement(PSA) on radio station WHFS at 102.5 FM in bethesda,MD.USA during the early '70's. it was followed by a nearly inaudible whisper, "...but grass and acid are o.k.", which may have been frank, or one of the mothers.